Truck and Barter

Comments

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kevin Brancato wrote:

Anybody out there?

-- September 13, 2006 2:31 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

YEAH !!! I'v surely missed this forum!

-- September 13, 2006 2:35 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

UP AND RUNNING!! WOOOOOOOOO!!

Thanks for the new scratch pad! Now where's Roger and his hair shirt?

-- September 13, 2006 2:37 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

http://www.isx-data.com/opinion/137/revalue-the-iraqi-dinar-yes

I figure we can start the board with some positive thoughts...

Re-Value the Iraqi Dinar? Yes!
One Investor's Take on the Valuation of the Dinar
________________________________________
• By: Roger Isaksson (email)
• Published: 08/31/2006
o this author's past articles

________________________________________
Iraq's current government has been staggering badly under the pressure of growing violence and widespread infrastructure failures. As a result, government consolidation is taking place, including dismissals, arrests, and the emergence of strong personalities. Yet still, most government participants appear to lack the will to stick their neck out and make bold moves that would ultimately help the Iraqi people.
The Iraqi Dinar
Economically, according to my estimates, the Iraqi dinar is hopelessly undervalued, and should have been revalued long ago. The dinar is held down artificially by the Central Bank of Iraq (CBI), resulting in very little buying power for the Iraqi working class. Currently, most of the day-to-day products needed by Iraqi's are produced outside of the country, but when buying it with an undervalued currency, nobody except the intrepid merchant benefits. In order to justify the costs of manufacture and import into the country, most things that we in the West take for granted are priced far beyond the average Iraqi's ability to pay for it, due in large part to the vast exchange rate differences.
Due to these currency differences, few Iraqi's can afford the items they want or need. As fewer people can afford them, the market for these items is artificially small, resulting in less competition and higher prices. This, coupled with the day-to-day disruption of goods and services due to the violence plaguing large tracts of the country, have led to high levels of inflation.
By revaluing the Iraq Dinar to it's true value towards the market, the Iraqi people will regain a measure of their buying power back. Imported goods will now be within reach of nearly everybody, helped to infuse the Iraqi economy with a new vitality.
True Dinar Value
In analyzing the true value of the dinar, many have predicted a value as high as parity with the US dollar ($1 = 1 dinar), while more conservative estimates have been in the range of a $0.01 = 1 dinar. This range, of course, can only be estimated, because the dinars true strength can only be determined, as with all currencies, once it is freely traded on the world market.
The continued lack of purchasing power of the Iraq dinar will be yet another factor in a long line of social problems, and some have the idea that those problems have to be addressed first before the economy can be fixed. The Iraqi man on the street is having a hard time feeding his family, and in such dire circumstances he may even be tempted to work against his fellow Iraqi's through insurgency, crime and even terrorism. This writer urges the current Iraqi Administration; fix the dinar.
The "Big Guys" are standing at the gate waiting to get in, but have to wait until they get assurances that the investment will not be socialized as in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela, or lost completely due to a full-blown civil war. The new Iraq Investment Laws are tentative right now, but hopefully the Iraqi Government will make it a top priority when they return to session this fall. However, as with everything in Iraq these days, this supposition is a moving target at best.

-- September 13, 2006 2:40 PM ∞

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PreDICtion wrote:

RV .61:1, 13 December 2006 at 0530 eastern. Source (Space). Good luck.

-- September 13, 2006 2:56 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Your right, that was a good article...read this one -- FROM THE UN SECRETARY GENERAL -- especially the first and last paragraph -- I'm usually not very sure/clear about what I read...BUT, this article SURE PUT A SMILE ON MY FACE!!!
===============

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060913/mideast_annan_060913/20060913?hub=World&s_name

Mideast sees Iraq as a disaster: Kofi Annan
Updated Wed. Sep. 13 2006 12:41 PM ET
Associated Press
UNITED NATIONS -- U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Wednesday that most leaders in the Middle East believe the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and its aftermath "a real disaster" for the region.
Annan said many leaders believed the United States should stay until Iraq improves, while others, such as Iran, said the United States should leave immediately. That means that the United States has found itself in the difficult position where "it cannot stay and it cannot leave."
"Most of the leaders I spoke to felt the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath has been a real disaster for them," Annan said. "They believe it has destabilized the region."
Annan returned from a two-week trip to the Middle East late last week. His main goal was to get leaders to support a Security Council resolution imposing a cease-fire in Lebanon, but he said he discussed other issues such as Iraq with the leaders he met.
Iran offered to help the United States leave but did not go into details, Annan said. He would not give his own thoughts on whether he believed the United States should leave Iraq yet.
"The timing has to be optimum and it has to be arranged in such a way that it does not lead to even greater disruption or violence in the region," he said.
Annan's news conference was meant to give him a chance to discuss the results of his trip to the region and take stock of the U.N. ahead of the annual ministerial meeting of the General Assembly, which begins Tuesday.
He said that on Monday, the U.N. would host a meeting of the Iraq Compact, a new group created by Iraqi's government meant to help strengthen its economy.
"The idea here is to generate support for the economic development of Iraq," Annan said. "Wait till next week, the pessimists will be surprised as to what happens."
Annan plans to step down on Dec. 31 when his second five-year term as secretary-general ends.

-- September 13, 2006 2:57 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

It is good that the board is back up. I found myself missing it. Does anyone know the root cause why the board was down?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:02 PM ∞

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mfriedl1 wrote:

Hi everyone, what's the buzz over here?

-- September 13, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Kurdistan discovery may tempt oil majors September 7, 2006 - International oil companies including Shell, ExxonMobil, Total, BP and Chevron are positioning themselves to exploit Iraq's rich oilfield potential once the country agrees to legislation protecting their investments.
The attraction lies in more than 500 geological structures believed to contain huge volumes of oil and. Most structures have yet to be drilled and at present almost all Iraq's oil is produced from just 20 fields.
The majors could commit $20 billion into rebuilding and developing Iraqi oil and gas fields but moves so far have been delayed by the deteriorating security situation as well as a lack of definitive legal guidelines for foreign investment.
US Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman pressed for a clear legal framework during a July visit to Baghdad declaring it would be instrumental in attracting foreign investment to Iraq's oil sector.
Raising output The government has said it aims to produce 3.5 million b/d of oil by the end of next year and 4 million b/d by the end of 2008 and up to 8 million b/d by the end of 2010. The targets are considered by outsiders impossible to achieve without multi-billion dollar investment from international oil companies.
Most companies have already identified areas of the country particularly in the southern provinces where they would like to explore. France's Total is looking at Majnoon and Bin Umar, Spain's Repsol at Nasiriyah and Shell at Ratawi.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's oil advisor Thamer al-Ghadhban says negotiations could take up to a year to conclude once rules of investment are established but he suggests talks should run alongside parliament's discussions about legislation.
A complicating factor is the question of regional power with politicians split according to religious and ethnic loyalties. Kurds, for example, have been used to a large measure of autonomy even during Saddam's time. The constitution is still vague on whether the country's mineral wealth is controlled by central government or by the regions in which it is located.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:49 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here is another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq to invest $4 billion in oil infrastructure September 6, 2006 - Iraq plans to invest $4 billion to build oil refineries and improve ageing infrastructure, Finance Minister Bayan Jabor said. 'Four billion dollars will be allocated to the Oil Ministry to build refineries and improve infrastructure,' Jabor told a news conference.
Iraq has the world's third-largest known oil reserves, but sabotage attacks, corruption and old infrastructure has crippled the sector and caused a severe domestic fuel shortage.
Jabor, who said the spending would come from a planned budget bill for 2007 of about $33 billion, did not say if the investments were aimed at increasing export levels or improving domestic supplies of fuel.
Iraq's oil minister, Hussain Al Shahristani, said earlier that Baghdad planned to raise oil production to 3.0 million barrels per day (bpd) before the end of 2006.
An Oil Ministry official said the ministry hoped to increase domestic production of petrol in its refineries at Basra, Shueyba, Doura and Baiji to 11 million litres per day by the end of the year.
Iraq currently refines eight million litres of petrol per day, way short of a domestic demand of 22-23 million litres per day.
In a move aimed at easing gasoline shortages and reducing smuggling, Iraq's parliament has approved a law that authorises private companies to bid for import licences to supply fuel direct to the open market.
Until now, all oil imports have been conducted by the State Oil Marketing Organisation (Somo), which is also responsible for the sale of Iraqi crude.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:50 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

And another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Slow reconstruction blamed on corruption September 6, 2006 - It has been three years since the fall of the former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein’s government and Iraqis are still lacking basic facilities such as power, clean potable water and sanitation, problems some experts blame on corruption.
“Corruption has become common in Iraq. Every government department is plagued by some type of corruption and the problem has become endemic countrywide,” said Judge Radhi al-Radhi, head of the Commission on Public Integrity (CPI), which is tackling corruption.
So far, some 3,500 corruption cases have been investigated by the CPI, of which 780 cases have been lodged in court but fewer than 50 have been tried, according to officials.
Al-Radhi said that corruption was present in Iraq in many forms - from stealing money from coffers of ministries that should be used for the country’s development, to the purchase of better grades by university students.
This endemic corruption has led to a dire lack of funds for a reconstruction process in a country which has some of the world’s richest oil reserves. Now, families still suffer from having less than four hours of electricity a day, poor potable water and there is open sewage almost everywhere.
The missing millions
“About US $4 billion has been pilfered from state coffers and no one is taking responsibility - but we are working hard to find those responsible,” al-Radhi said.
The US government has injected some US $21 billion for reconstruction and relief funding in addition to the US $5 billion Iraqi Security Forces Fund and the US $19.6 billion Development Fund for Iraq. This brings the total US reconstruction tab to more than $45 billion.
“From this money invested [by the US] and some US $10 billion invested by other donors in Iraq for the reconstruction process, at least 25 percent of the entire amount is missing without an explanation,” al-Radhi said.
According to al-Radhi, some of this money has gone towards the purchase of furniture for government officials who have also restored their homes with government funds.
At present, 70 cases of corruption are being investigated. In one of the cases, a female government official was found guilty of hiring about 40 bodyguards for her personal use but who were on the government payroll.
Al-Radhi also said that about US $1 billion was used by the Ministry of Interior for the purchase of arms which have not been received. Those funds, he said, could have been used for repairing schools and hospitals as well as for other reconstruction work.
“Corruption is definitely hampering reconstruction. Corruption affects development and prevents benefits from flowing to those who most need them,” said Arwa Hassan, Middle East Programme Coordinator for Transparency International (TI), a Berlin-based NGO that monitors corruption worldwide.
The worsening security environment has also facilitated corruption as people do not inform authorities of corrupt colleagues for fear of being threatened or even killed.
“If security was improved, you could have enforcement mechanisms and there would be freedom to actually carry out more proactive work. But as long as the situation remains so difficult, it does not look likely that things will change in the immediate future,” Arwa said.
According to the Iraqi government, there are three bodies that deal with corruption: the Commission for Public Integrity, the Board of Supreme Audit and the Inspector General - the latter of which each ministry has.
“It is fair to say that they are at varying stages of development. Some are dedicated and hard working, others lack competence,” Arwa added.
Failing legal system
“Iraq is failing in addressing corruption and this is pushing up the cost of rebuilding the country and worsening the already deteriorated economy,” said Faya’ad Ziad, a professor of economics at Mustansiriyah University.
“There is no real justice against corrupt people and this is resulting in more people living without access to essential services such as power and sanitation,” Ziad added.
Most of the courts in Iraq have been refusing to take corruption cases because of the huge number of terrorism and kidnapping cases, especially in Baghdad, where corruption is worse.
“For them, corruption is not as important as terrorism, but they are not aware that insurgency is also increasing due to corruption. Some of the looted money is being invested in terrorism,” Ziad said.
Al-Radhi said fear has also delayed prosecution work. “Some 20 judges working on corruption and terrorism cases were killed last year,” he said.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:51 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

And another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq official calls for oil partnerships September 11, 2006 - A top Iraqi official called for partnerships with international companies to boost his country's oil industry on Sunday, saying Iraq's emergence as a "secure petro-democracy" could quell rampant sectarian violence.
Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh, a Kurd, conceded disputes between local officials and the central government over who controls oil proceeds were one of many obstacles to making improvements. But he said he was hopeful that oil would be a "unifying force for Iraqis rather than a resource to fight over."
He spoke of Iraq emerging as a "secure petro-democracy" with the strength to put an end to the violence that threatens to tear the country apart.
"I don't underestimate the gravity of the situation in Iraq," Saleh said during a U.N.- and U.S.-sponsored Iraq donor conference in the Emirates capital of Abu Dhabi. "We are in a very critical situation."
Iraqi leaders are nearing agreement on a long-awaited hydrocarbon law that could usher in huge investments by foreign companies in Iraq's oil sector — and eventually rescue the embattled country from deepening chaos, Saleh said.
The deputy prime minister said he expected the law setting ground rules for managing Iraq's huge petroleum reserves would be approved in parliament by year's end.
"This will open Iraq's oil sector for investment," Saleh said. "We know what it takes. It takes partnerships with international oil companies."
Foreign oil companies, with their huge investment clout and technology, are best placed to quickly modernize Iraq's oil sector and meet the country's goal of doubling the current crude production of 2.5 million barrels per day by 2010, Saleh said.
But the absence of a legal framework governing investments and ownership of the country's oil resources has hampered foreign investment in the sector.
Iraq's oil infrastructure has been under repeated attacks from insurgents. The industry also suffered during the 1990s when the country under Saddam Hussein did not have access to state-of-the-art technology or engineering know-how.
Big oil companies have told the U.S. government they are willing to send crews to Iraq to explore and pump oil — regardless of the violence — as long as there are legal ground rules for their participation, said U.S. Deputy Treasury Secretary Robert Kimmitt.
"The oil companies have told us they need to know what the rules of the road are," said Kimmitt, President Bush's special envoy for the Iraq donor talks.
Currently, Iraq's oil production is overseen by the country's Ministry of Petroleum and two state-run oil companies, a centralized management system left over from the regime of Saddam Hussein that Saleh said "has proven to be a disaster."
"Iraq needs investment. Iraq needs to send a strong signal to the international community about investment in oil," the deputy prime minister said. "We need to push liberalization and open our markets."
Saleh, from the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq, acknowledged that "differences remain" among those negotiating a hydrocarbon law, particularly on determining whether the resource is controlled by regional governments or Baghdad.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:52 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

The last one from www.iraqieconomy.org

New law allows private entrepreneurs to import fuel September 7, 2006 - Under new regulations, turned into law on Monday, Iraqi entrepreneurs will have the right to import fuel and compete with government-owned fuel distribution network.
Even foreign entrepreneurs, under the new legislation, are allowed to export and distribute fuel products directly. Iraq is currently facing a severe petrol, kerosene and cooking gas shortage.
The law gives Iraqi and foreign entrepreneurs the right to build fuel storages across the country, set up their filling stations and sell fuel directly to customers.
Those to be involved in what many see as a lucrative business opportunity will have taxes on their activities waived for two years.
The law comes as the government has decided to up spending on importing fuel this year to some $800 million a month.
Iraq with massive oil reserves faces severe fuel shortages which were non-existent before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.
The government blames insurgent attacks on pipelines for the shortages, but Oil Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity, say rickety infrastructure and lack of investment are among the reasons.
Most of the country’s fuel imports come from Iran, Turkey, Syria and Kuwait.
Before the U.S. invasion Iraqi refineries churned out 700,000 barrels a day but now they are said to be running at less than half capacity.
A liter of petrol or gasoline has soared to more than $1 dollar at a time the official price is set at nearly 17 cents.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 3:54 PM ∞

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PreDICtion wrote:

RV .61:1, 13 December 2006 at 0530 eastern. Source (Space). Good luck.

-- September 13, 2006 4:22 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060913/mideast_annan_060913/20060913?hub=World&s_name

Mideast sees Iraq as a disaster: Kofi Annan
Updated Wed. Sep. 13 2006 12:41 PM ET
Associated Press
UNITED NATIONS -- U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Wednesday that most leaders in the Middle East believe the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and its aftermath "a real disaster" for the region.
Annan said many leaders believed the United States should stay until Iraq improves, while others, such as Iran, said the United States should leave immediately. That means that the United States has found itself in the difficult position where "it cannot stay and it cannot leave."
"Most of the leaders I spoke to felt the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath has been a real disaster for them," Annan said. "They believe it has destabilized the region."
Annan returned from a two-week trip to the Middle East late last week. His main goal was to get leaders to support a Security Council resolution imposing a cease-fire in Lebanon, but he said he discussed other issues such as Iraq with the leaders he met.
Iran offered to help the United States leave but did not go into details, Annan said. He would not give his own thoughts on whether he believed the United States should leave Iraq yet.
"The timing has to be optimum and it has to be arranged in such a way that it does not lead to even greater disruption or violence in the region," he said.
Annan's news conference was meant to give him a chance to discuss the results of his trip to the region and take stock of the U.N. ahead of the annual ministerial meeting of the General Assembly, which begins Tuesday.
He said that on Monday, the U.N. would host a meeting of the Iraq Compact, a new group created by Iraqi's government meant to help strengthen its economy.
"The idea here is to generate support for the economic development of Iraq," Annan said. "Wait till next week, the pessimists will be surprised as to what happens."
Annan plans to step down on Dec. 31 when his second five-year term as secretary-general ends.

-- September 13, 2006 4:32 PM ∞

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paul wrote:

Hi,
12 million Dinar and growing!

This is my favorite part...

He said that on Monday, the U.N. would host a meeting of the Iraq Compact, a new group created by Iraqi's government meant to help strengthen its economy.
"The idea here is to generate support for the economic development of Iraq," Annan said. "Wait till next week, the pessimists will be surprised as to what happens."

-- September 13, 2006 5:31 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

==========================================================================
Terri wrote......

"The idea here is to generate support for the economic development of Iraq," Annan said. "Wait till next week, the pessimists will be surprised as to what happens."
========================================================================
This makes a person think that the meeting of the donor nations in the US on 9/18 will have some good news.....

-- September 13, 2006 5:35 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Allow me to address what PreDICtion wrote:
"RV .61:1, 13 December 2006 at 0530 eastern. Source (Space). Good luck." What evidence do you know of to support your assertion? What inside information do you have confirming such an high RV.

I do not believe neither the Central Bank nor the Central Government can support such an RV. The issues in Iraq are many and December RV is unlikely. If an RV occurs in December it may be modest such as: 1345:1.

Of course I hope I am wrong and I sure Roger and Lance shall chide me a second time. Their chiding is fine because iron sharpens iron.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 13, 2006 5:37 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

I think thats what you call a SWAG (Simple Wild Ass Guess), Rob. The source (space) is a clue there.

-- September 13, 2006 6:28 PM ∞

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brian wrote:

I can only hope that the 18th will at least bring about speculation of a RV and increase value. At this point the NID has to see a increase to keep corruption from continuing. It certaily cant hurt that other countries i.e. Russia are going to help with all the Iraq failing refineries.

-- September 13, 2006 7:46 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

When you kick the kitty hard enough you usually get results...!
I believe it is time to send that sucker through the uprights...that is.... the Iragi Government Officials for their lack of progress on corruption within their own ranks....How long do you continue to feed the kitty if the kitty keeps turning around and biting you...?
Well! the iraqi kitty has continued to bite us in the economic pockets, and they scream for more corruption funds...excuse me I mean aid...frankly...I think we should let them know in no uncertain terms the funds are connected to results....and results only...either make improvements within your ranks in arrest and convictions.... or the funds are going to be cut off starting this week...
Frankly....I am starting to feel like we have been taken for rubes....enough is enough...its time to change game plans.....

-- September 13, 2006 10:11 PM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Not to be negative, just another view on the dinar.

C1Jim

http://www.isx-data.com/opinion/139/will-the-iraqi-dinar-rise-not-likely

Will the Iraqi Dinar Rise? Not Likely
A brief look at the realities of a meteoric currency re-valuation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By: David Sotnick (email)
Published: 09/07/2006
this author's past articles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many have speculated that the Iraqi dinar (IQD) is set for a meteoric rise in 'value', with claims/rumors of the dinar being pegged 'in the near future' at levels ranging from $0.01 USD per dinar to as much as $1.00 USD per dinar.

First, let us examine these claims for what they must be; a scam, pure fiction or, at best, reasoned speculation.

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics
Clearly, the vast majority of dinar-related claims appear to be a blatant scam, preying on the misinformed. Dozens of websites abound with information on the supposed previous value of the dinar, at or above $3.00 USD per dinar. On the surface, these claims are true, if one happily ignores the fact that this arbitrary level was picked by Saddam and his cronies and had absolutely no basing in economic fundamentals. Beware any source claiming these numbers as some kind of indicator of future value.

A second prevalent claim is that, much like the Kuwaiti dinar (KWD) during the first Gulf War, the Iraqi dinar is set for an overnight rise in value on a similar scale. Some simple facts however, reveal that these situations share nothing in common other than geography and the players involved. The Kuwaiti dinar had been historically valued at levels at or near those levels seen immediately after the liberation of Kuwait by Coalition forces (and in the 15 years since). The catastrophic, yet brief dip in the KWD's value was purely reflective of the economic uncertainty that the Iraqi invasion caused. The fact that once the Iraqi's were removed from Kuwait the currency bounced back to 'normal' levels should not surprise anyone. The KWD's worth was founded in decades of economic management by the Kuwaiti central bank, which had a track-record of demonstrating that a high exchange rate was sustainable for the Kuwaiti economy.

In discussing the IQD, a parallel is often made when attempting to justify the 'impending' rise in the value of the Iraqi dinar. Often people will cite (selectively of course) the valuations of several neighboring Gulf countries currency exchange rates. Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain and others are touted as the 'natural' exchange rate for the region, given their similarity in both peoples and of course resources. However, this precludes the fact that Iran, Iraq's closest neighbor and clearly, if one is to look at the situation on the ground, most influential, has an exchange rate of over 9,000 Iranian Rial to the USD. If one feels the need to believe the superficial comparisons made in the positive, one also needs to look at those that may reflect negatively on the Iraqi situation.

A final comparison that you may see involves the supposed rise in value of the Afghanistan Afghani. In short, this currency has not experienced any real gains since the liberation from the Taliban. What it did experience was a phenomenon known as 'zero-lopping', in that the government decided to simply remove a number of trailing zeroes from their printed bills out of sheer convenience. Prices, and the Afghani's exchangeable values, immediately reflected these changes. No rise in value was or has been seen to the respective currency holder, or to the Afghan people.

One needs to remember that physical currency is simply a piece of paper with pretty pictures and an arbitrary number printed on it. Real value can only obtained through the trade of this paper, and its relative worth when compared to other currencies, which brings us to Iraq.

Reasoned Speculation, or How I Determined the Value of the IQD
At this point, in this author's opinion, targeting a specific exchange rate for the IQD is nonsensical, unless the person spreading the rumor has the ear of the Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) or has a complete understanding of the macro and micro-economic situation on the ground in Iraq. I would venture that nobody has such a complete picture, and that you would be better served to simply throw darts at a board when it comes to determining values.

Predicting the future of the Iraqi dinar is akin to predicting the future price of a given companies shares, without the 1) information needed to do it properly, 2) a language barrier which prevents all but a few from actually understanding what little information IS out there, and 3) a low-level civil war that makes gathering economic indicators and trends nearly impossible.

So what do we have to go on in terms of the true valuation of the dinar? Most obviously, the historical exchange rates of the current Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) regime. These rates have been steadfastly 'pegged' at close to 1500 IQD per USD now for almost three years. If one is to look at the daily currency auctions posted on the CBI's website, we can see that they seem to be managing the currency quite responsibly, and if anything have managed to stave off downward pressure, rather than stop some magical upward swing that many hope for. Through all the political bickering, sectarian violence and oil disruptions, the rate has traded within a very tight range of values.

In the face of an inflation rate hovering around 50%, the bank has done an admirable job of maintaining the current value of the dinar. One should not be surprised that given the on-the-ground realities, inflation and other economic factors, the dinar is probably slightly OVER-valued today. If the CBI was to back off on it's currency interventions, the value, at least in the short-term, would likely drop.

The Re-Pegging Myth
If the CBI were to decide tomorrow to 're-peg' the dinar to some arbitrary value (i.e. intervene to maintain the auction prices at a higher exchange rate value), of, say, 1 dinar = 1 USD, they would be insolvent within a month. Not to mention the obvious problems that these imaginary re-pegged exchange rates would create. Imagine the average Iraq citizen instantly becoming a USD millionaire, and then using these riches to flee the country and live like royalty elsewhere in the region. Or the range of weapons that the insurgents could then acquire with their billions of dinar/USD. Or the fact that individual currency speculators holding in some cases billions of dinar, now magically worth billions of USD, would have a net worth almost equal to Iraq's entire GDP (estimated to be ~94 billion for 2005). Ridiculous.

One should expect a loosening of the constraints of exchange on the dinar over the coming months/years, and one should expect some movement when this happens. One should not expect to suddenly be worth more than the entire country of Iraq.

**END ARTICLE**

-- September 14, 2006 12:05 AM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Good morning guy/gals!

I read on another forum that all roads entering Baghdad, on the 17th & 18th will have roadblocks and that the GoI has advised it's people to expect lengthy delays on those two days...I was half alseep when I read it (but I'm SURE of what it said) -- does anyone know WHY the 17th & 18th -- ?? I'm off to work right now (gotta work, at least until the r/v - LOL)-- I'll check back in a few hours...would sure like to know why the 17th and 18th !

-- September 14, 2006 7:29 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Looks like the hydrocarbon law will be passed at the end of the year. Sure wish they would get off their @$$ and get it done quicker.

==========================================================================
International Oil Firms

Shahristani, in Vienna for a meeting of the Organization of Petroleum Exports Countries, was also briefing international oil companies about the latest developments in his country.

He said Iraq would enter into serious talks with them when parliament passed a new hydrocarbon law to regulate investment. This is expected by year-end.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-14-09-2006&article=10486

-- September 14, 2006 9:01 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Enjoy the following article.

ICB Presenting financial adjustment with available reserve
ICB Presenting financial adjustment with available reserve
13/09/2006
Source: Al-Sabah

The Iraqi Central Bank assured that the country is improving in the field of reforming the financial sector in spite of the continuing violence and enough reserves are available to support the local currency.

Sinan Al-Shibibi, Governor of the Bank, emphasized the possibility of succeeding to maintain a stable financial status in Iraq if the reserves are enough to keep the currency exchange rate stable. He pointed out that the net foreign cash reached 10 billion USD at a rise estimated by 2 billion USD since last January. This matches the set down limit within the program of the International Monetary Fund.

Al-Shibibi said that increasing violence kept the inflation high about 10% over the set down limit of the Bank. Part of this is due to the unexpectedly high security costs. He anticipated that the country would not only maintain economic stability but also achieve more progress after the improvement of security status. Al-Shibibi pointed out that Iraq is on the right track in its financial reforms including: the change of banking system from one depending on cash to another depending on trust as well as improving banks' managements and developing the technology they use to conclude transactions.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 14, 2006 10:02 AM ∞

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Steve wrote:

I MISSED YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy now my great news is common knowledge: Chase bank exchanging dinar.

I was quoted a price of 623.90 per million Dinar. Of course this will flucuate with the daily rates, but the point was that the rate is at the exchange rate. No middleman price increases or anything of that sort. Great news for liquidity eh?

C1Jim,

Your article neglects export factors as a basis for revalue. The curent model is based solely on reserves yes, but that is by design. It holds the currency value stable so that stressors to the market can be better assessed. Once they decide on an RV rate, the export factor looms large.

Where is Roger, or did I just miss his posts. I'll go look again.

Again, glad to be back on board...............

-- September 14, 2006 2:13 PM ∞

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Mattuk wrote:

Hello to every,I've been following this site for about six months now, and read many interesting articles about the dinar, for what its worth I agree with people like lance and steve that the revalve is inevitable, and soon hopefully. I am based here in the UK (and I am english) but having lived in the USA I find it amusing the comments made some of you stateside, especially your views in the past about religion and the meaning of life! Glad this thread is back online and it continues with insightful dialogue and interesting banter.I've been tempered to add my views in the past but so often someone else has beaten me to it. So I've just sat back and watched from a distance, and to be honest the only reason I'm writing this now is because some of you have incouraged more people to participate and I'm glad your all out there.I'm crap at typing so it maybe quite a while until I find the energy to compose more waffle.... Take care and good luck to you all, Matt in the UK

-- September 14, 2006 3:17 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Hi there. New to this forum. So many pieces of the puzzle seem to be falling in place.

-- September 14, 2006 3:19 PM ∞

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paul wrote:

Steve,
Do you have contact number for Chase?

-- September 14, 2006 3:48 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

All right you guys! I really depend on the combined intelligence on this forum! Has ANYONE found out why the roadblocks on all roads leading into Baghdad on the 17th & 18th...I've been searching all day and can't find out why.

I thought it might be because of Ramadan, but that don't start until 10/24 -- it's much to early for extra security for that.

-- September 14, 2006 5:08 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Terri....

The only big event in that time frame is the Iraq donor meeting in the US....which is on the 18th. My contacts in Iraq don't know either...but they're out in the boonies right now.
Anybody know??????

-- September 14, 2006 5:55 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Judge tells Saddam: "You are not a dictator"
By Ibon Villelabeitia
Thu Sep 14, 1:28 PM ET

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The judge in Saddam Hussein's genocide trial said on Thursday he did not think the ousted Iraqi leader was a "dictator," prompting a spokesman for the U.S.-sponsored court to defend its impartiality.

Abdulla al-Amiri made his comments one day after prosecutors demanded his resignation, complaining that he was too soft on Saddam, who had threatened to "crush the heads" of his accusers. They also complained he let Saddam make long speeches in court.

Questioning a Kurdish farmer who testified he had secured a face-to-face audience with Saddam in 1988 and begged him to spare the lives of his wife and seven children, the former president said: "If I'm a dictator, why did you come to see me?"

Amiri, who has compared his approach to the trial as that of a referee seeking "fairness," then addressed Saddam politely, saying: "You are not a dictator. It is the people who surround a man who make him a dictator." He did not elaborate.

Visibly pleased, Saddam uttered a respectful "Thank you" and then regained his seat in the Baghdad courtroom.

Iraqi High Tribunal chief investigator and spokesman Raed Juhi sought during a news conference later to distance the court, set up by U.S. occupying forces, from Amiri's comment.

"The court will continue with its neutrality and its course. The judge is only human," Juhi said.

"At the end, the judge will decide guilty or not guilty based on the evidence. This has no effect on the case."

Saddam and six former commanders face capital charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity for their role in the 1988 Anfal campaign prosecutors say left 182,000 Iraqi Kurds dead or missing. Saddam and his cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majeed, known as "Chemical Ali," also face genocide charges.

Part of the prosecution case is expected to rest on how far Saddam was directly responsible for the actions of his troops.

Amiri, who is a member of the majority Shi'ite community which along with ethnic Kurds suffered widely under Saddam's Sunni-led rule, was not available for comment after the trial.

FACE TO FACE

Earlier, farmer Abdulla Mohammad Hussain told the court how a furious Saddam shouted "Shut up and get out!" when he pleaded for the release of his family, including a 40-day-old daughter, who were rounded up in their village in northern Kurdistan.

"He told me to approach him and I begged him for their lives," he said, recounting a visit to one of Saddam's palaces in dramatic testimony during the fourth hearing this week of a trial that began last month.

Saddam, who has defended his policies of crushing Kurdish rebels fighting alongside Shi'ite Iran during the final years of the Iraq-Iran war, said he did not remember ever seeing the witness, who described himself as illiterate.

"Do you have a receipt that you saw me? The Presidential Palace always issued receipts to those who came to visit me?" Saddam asked of the alleged incident 18 years ago.

"No. You took the receipt away from me when I saw you," said Hussain, who is in his mid-50s and wore a traditional headdress.

The trial was adjourned until Monday.

The initial phase of the trial has featured a litany of often harrowing testimony from Kurdish survivors. Saddam is also awaiting a verdict in a first, separate, trial for crimes against humanity over the deaths of 148 Shi'ite men.

-- September 14, 2006 6:35 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Iran: 'Occupying forces' must leave Iraq.
POSTED: 10:43 a.m. EDT, September 13, 2006

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has praised the new Iraqi government and said Iran looks forward to the day when U.S. troops leave Iraq, according to an Iranian media report.

"A major portion of Iraq's problems will be solved when the occupying forces leave that country, and that is why we desire and hope that occupiers leave Iraq," Khamenei said, according to a report from Iran's semi-official news agency FARS.

Following talks with visiting Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki on Wednesday, Khamanei said Iran was happy that an independent and permanent government had been formed in Iraq. "We hope that the day will come when the Iraqi nation reaches its rightful place (among nations) and, after it is free from foreigners, its human and natural resources could be used to serve the Iraqi people," he said. "The Islamic Republic of Iran feels duty bound to provide practical assistant to the Iraqi government and nation."

Al-Maliki said Iraq's major problem is "the question of security," which he blamed on supporters of Saddam Hussein's former Baathist regime as well as Islamic extremists. The Iraqi leader expressed hope that by implementing Tehran-Baghdad agreements reached in the Iranian capital, the two countries' relations will further expand.

Al-Maliki met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday, who described the talks as "very good." Iran and Iraq are linked in large part by common religion -- Shia Islam -- but their relationship is complicated. While many Iranians and Iraqis -- officials as well as citizens -- believe the nations are kindred spirits, there have been tensions between them. They fought a bloody war in the 1980s under Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, who brought Iraq's minority Sunni Muslims to power.

The United States, the chief ally and backer of the new Iraqi government, has been a longtime adversary of Iran on many issues, including Iran's nuclear ambitions. American and British officials have claimed that Iran is attempting to fan the flames of insecurity in Iraq, where the government is trying to promote national unity among Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.

CNN's Mohammed Tawfeeq and Jomana Karadsheh contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/13/iraq.iran/index.html

-- September 14, 2006 6:47 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Iraq war 'disaster for Mideast'
Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2006


Baghdad, The UN secretary general has said that most Middle East leaders regard the US-led invasion of Iraq and its aftermath as a disaster for the region.

Kofi Annan, speaking at a briefing following his recent tour of the region, said that the timing of any US withdrawal was now a key issue. He said some leaders wanted the US to stay in Iraq and stabilise it, while others wanted an immediate withdrawal.

The White House said it disagreed with his characterisation of events in Iraq. Spokesman Tony Snow accepted there had been unrest in Iraq but pointed to attempts to establish democracy in Lebanon and in Palestinian areas, and said democracy was also gaining a footing in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Annan was speaking at a news conference at the UN in New York ahead of this year's General Assembly. He also appealed to Iran to work with the international community to solve the dispute over its nuclear programme. Washington accuses Tehran of attempting to build a nuclear bomb. Speaking about his tour of Middle East nations, Annan said: 'Most of the leaders I spoke to felt that the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath have been a real disaster for them...They believe it has destabilised the region.' But he also said many leaders wanted the Americans to stay in Iraq until the security situation improved, arguing that 'having created the problem they cannot walk away'.

He said other leaders, notably in Iran, felt 'the presence of the US is a problem and that the US should leave, and if the US were to decide to leave, they would help them'. Annan concluded: 'So in a way, the US has found itself in a position where it cannot stay and it cannot leave. 'And I believe, if it has to leave, the timing has to be optimum and it has to be arranged in such a way that it does not lead to even greater disruption or violence in the region.'

Turning to Iran, Annan said he detected a slight shift in Tehran's approach and believed the Iranians were more open to suspending their nuclear enrichment activities as part of negotiations. 'We cannot afford another crisis in this region. I appeal to the Iranians to ...lift the cloud of uncertainty surrounding their programme, so hopefully this will be done.'

http://www.tradearabia.com/tanews/newsdetails_snDEF_article111190.html

-- September 14, 2006 7:12 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Hi Matt.

Good to see another Brit here. I was starting to get lonely on this side of the pond. Have you bought your ticket yet?

Does anyone have Roger's Email addy? I feel if he does not return to post soon, the board will burst with his posts when he does finally return.

No signs of Lance either? I wonder if he's still wrestling with his hair shirt. Maybe he called in Roger for backup. Show it the shampoo I say.

-- September 14, 2006 7:31 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Commenting on Outlaws Trade Arabia story on the Muslim reaction to the American invasion, I'd say, yes, the American presense in that country is destabilizing to the region. For too long the region has seem stable tyranny, human rights abuses, and millions of other problems. "Stability" in the past lead to terrorism and supporting Muslim dictators abusing their own people, languishing the area in backwardness. Iran wants to make an atom bomb so they can boss other Muslims around, and if they decide to steal Arab oil, they think they can get away with it if they have an atomic bomb. With a thousand billion dollars worth of new oil money, Iran could fund a lot more terrorism. I say nuke em while we have a chance. As a warmongering Canuck, let me say, God bless America.

-- September 14, 2006 7:38 PM ∞

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Steve wrote:

Paul,

Yes I do, but I am pretty sure you'll need to ask to speak with someone who does foreign exchange. This number is for members with accounts: 1-800-935-9935

Website is www.chase.com

-- September 14, 2006 9:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Back in business.

Hi everybody, really nice to see you all, I had almost withdrawal symphtoms, when this blog went down.

Well done Kevin, thanks.

Hold on everybody, seems like a lot of things are piling up and the dates are pretty much the same.

Roadblocks the 17th and 18th. The World Bank have their meting in Singapore now the 18th.

Kofi Anan, says that " Wait until next week, the pessimists will be suprised as to what happen"

Donor conferance in the US around the 18th.

It seems to bubble.

I know the Iraqis will be at the World bank meeting (I'm old have CRS, dont remember where I picked that up), and I checked the agenda on the meeting, but it was not mentioned.

Perhaps I missed something, but also, no revalue or devalue of any currency is ever announced in before hand, to protect the currency agains specuation, mass sellouts, or mass buyups, or unlawful trading, so this might very well be it.

According to the agenda, all the World Banks dignitaries will be there, and this is probably the best opportunity to align the Iraq currency plans with the rest of the world.

Please help out in checking whats going on in Singapore.

Carl had the right idea.

I can read into it, and from many sources across the world. People in general is completely sick and tired of the eeeeeeeeeeeeeendless "Iraq Problem"

It's an embarassment for democracy, and finally they are taking this country, and its economy by it's straps and bringing it up passed the fail safe point.

Me , I'm sick of all these politicians declaring this, and declaring that, and if they are blowing smoke in our eyes one more time, I think it's time we start to be a bit loud ourself to them about it.

Nelly B,

I've been on shampoo hunt for that hairy shirt Fred, I tried lice shampoo, I tried shampoo that tingles, and are currently experimenting with acids in a progressively stronger grade, but the hair shirt still shows signs of life. Haven't heard from Lance, but he was going over to the US beating his wife a couple of weeks, so we'll se if he can get hold of a pjuter over here, otherwise he'll probably be back in business upon his return.

Tim Bitts,

If Iran can be held in check, we're all happy, but I have a feeling that anything they say, anything they agree to and any promise thay will give, WILL be broken. Right now, they have volountarily suspended Uranium enrichment. In my eyes they are laughing and are continuing enriching it, commenting "suckers". Either we have to take care of them or Israel will. Israel have never acknowledge their nuclear capability, but are thought to have one of the biggest stockpiles of nuclear warheads, after Russia and USA. They have also two missile systems, buried, and deployed from underground bunkers, both capable of surviving a close nuclear blast. Both missile systems are capable of reaching Iran. Hope it doesnt have to come to this, but thats the reality facing Iran.

Outlaw,

Saddam should have swung from the rope long ago. In wartimes, wartribunals are internationally recognized as a means of trial.

I dont know if you remember the trial of the Rumanian communist dictator Cheuchesko.The country revolted, the cought the man, he had a 45 minutes trial, and then he was shot, it was shown on TV the day after, and that was it.

Hi Steve,

Good, that shows we have at least ONE official bank exchanging Dinars, that will save us from Dinar Dealers tarrifs.

Mattuk,

Welcome to the show, the abuse is instant and the pain and pleasure is free. If your typing sucks, dont worry abou tit bcausue we hvnt learnd english her e yet.

I saw a parking sign in LA that read, "Heads In First".
Not even a verb in it. Doesnt really mean anything in English.

Another sign on the Oklahoma Pike. "Failure to pay toll, strictly enforced".

C1Jim,

That article by David Sotnik,I read it, and I must say that he have read all the Dinar sales arguments, from all the Dinar dealers, opposed them all, and with that ground, think the Dinar will stay in the dark for a very long time. Seems like a guy that have done a two week research on his spare time, I'm pretty sure most of us on this board have far more knowledge than that.

-- September 14, 2006 10:13 PM ∞

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Paul wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for the info. I am finding it more and more difficult to discover bargains on Ebay. So far my average buy-in is $730.00 per million. I am now at 12 million. Good Luck!

-- September 14, 2006 10:26 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Nelly B,

If this is it, and we're doing really good, we're having a potroast in Florida Keys, get drunk BEFORE you get on the plane, because you can't bring the bubbly. No more liquids. Well not that it matters too much because you're going first class anyway, and get served that stuff for free.

I will have to warn you about the cultural chock though, over here we have absolutely no manners. We cruise in the passing lane, and use our finger(s) for communication.

No one have the slightest idea how to behave in a line.Everybody is special and have to cut in and say his piece to the clerk.

When we say, "come and see me sometime" and you really show up at their door, we will be chocked.

The distinction between distilled water and american coffee, is still in debate.

Any coffee bread you order, will come with a half inch of sugarcoating, and sometimes you get an extra cup of frosting(american name for sugar on bread) if you think it was too little.

We eat a 6000 calorie meals, but are very strict about getting a "diet" soda to the meal. We have not really learned to count calories yet.

We have a cop in every corner, demanding that you spread eagle, and keep your hands where they can se them. Any traffic stop will include a search and a back up car, and ofcourse a ticket. No one objects to searches, we happily go along with them, and the law enforcement is our heroes.

Dont worry about the ticket, if you get one that gives you a movingviolation(points on your drivers licence) you can easily go to a lawyer and have it swapped to a higher bail, but no moving violation. You dont need to go to court to do this, the lawyer and the DA is buddies on the golfclub, and thats where the deal is made.

We don't respectfully face you and speak with a normal voice, we address you across the room screaming, -"Hey you".

We have guns, I love mine, but the road signs are pretty peppered with bulletholes in some places.

Signs saying "Beer, Ammo, Bait", exists here and are true.

We sell everything, and will remind you about all the wonderful products you cant live without wherever you turn your head.

We dont have quality but we have DEALS, it doesnt matter if you buy a substandard product as long as you got a good deal.

Everything that is FREE, have a hook. But it doesn't matter, we go for it every time.

We're the center of the universe, and as we're the only one playing baseball, (you know the thing where nothing happens for twenty minutes, except a lot of hot dog sales, crouch scratching, tobacco chewing, sign language, and bat tapping on the base.)we have named it the World Series.

Soccer is gay.

We suffer a little bit from bad education, show us a map of the world and ask us to point out Brittain, and you will see an unsure finger choosing between Zimbabwe, and Guam.

Switzerland and Sweden is the same country. (got to be, they sound similar)

Our education is based on the entertainment industry, any one of us can quote who played in what movie.

You must also understand our devoted and deep loyalty, to our beloved country, its workforce, its system, and it's principles, so dont be suprised to see a lot of american flags painted on everything, like Nissan pickup trucks or BMW's.

If there is a crisis, we display our solidarity by flying a flag on the car, it's a thing you squeese in to the window by closing it around a heel formed to fit. It lasts about two weeks, because the plastic arm will break in about that time, and as we really have already showed our solidarity , we really dont need to buy another one. So our time frame of displaying our solidarity is based on the longevity of a plastic device.

Our social standing is based on a gradient scale, of how much we love to be in debt. We assign much status to it, and call it "our credit rating".

We are completely convinced that all women born with hair on their bodies, older men without hair, and any teeth that is not sparkling white, is a sickness, and must be cured.

We have a spray for everything.

So Nelly B, welcome to the pot roast. Once you have got a taste of the insanity over here, you know your going to be hooked, and from then on nothing will ever be the same.

-- September 14, 2006 11:38 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Iraq is in a very very unique situation.

Iraq have 85% of their export in oil. Meaning, the rest of their export is less significant. As oilproduction increases, the rest of their export will be even more marginalized.

When you have undervalued currency , like Iraq have right now, their currency will buy squat in any other foreign country.

That will produce a scarcity of goods.

That means, the merchant can ask whatever they want for the goods.

That means there will be a galloping inflation, just like we have in Iraq.

The upside with an undervalued currency, is that the export will be very cheap in any other country and will promote the internal industry.

However, Iraq have the MAJORITY , 85%, of the export in oil, the oil is not sold in Dinars, it's sold in Dollars.

So the agricultural or industrial export other than oil, that will benefit from an undervalued currency is very minimal, and have to this date not showed any bigger difference in the Iraq economy.

So if you OVERVALUE the currency, the Dinar will suddenly buy a lot of things for the Iraqi man, stores will be filled, and competition will be sharpened. No scarcity of stuff.

The downside is that the export (the one not fixed to oil, the 15%) will suffer, because the goods will now be more expensive for the foreign market to buy.

Now, here is a conclution.

Iraq CAN overvalue it's currency, because their export is minimal, very little in the whole picture will get hurt.

Dont be suprised, it might be a huge revaluation.

With Iraq's special situation, I dont think they give a hoots if their export of Hooka pipes or Used Camels, will be suffering.

-- September 15, 2006 12:08 AM ∞

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Seeker wrote:

Hey Ya'll

Glad glad to see ya back. Short acouple missed faces, and the addition of acouple of new ones, the world is starting to spin true on it;s axis again.

Steve
Do you know wich Chase branch you spoke to. The quote it got from the one in Phoenix was 763.00 per mil?

-- September 15, 2006 2:40 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

763 / mil sounds like a selling price,
623.90 / mil sounds very much like the banks buying price

-- September 15, 2006 3:47 AM ∞

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FRED wrote:

Seeker,
This is Fred, the hairy shirt, do you mind if I get in contact with your socks.

-- September 15, 2006 3:49 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I surely believe my next step will be to transfer my Warka Bank, Baghdad account, to their Branch in Kurdistan. At least I could go there and fondle my Dinars whenever I wanted to.

============================================================================
As for the daylight kidnappings, horrific car bombings, drive-by assassinations and economic misery blighting the rest of Iraq, Farok is blunt.

"I don't care," he says. "The Arabs never cried for us when we were suffering. I'm going to a teahouse with my friend to have some fun."

While much of Iraq remains engulfed in various layers of insurgent, sectarian, political and tribal violence, the Switzerland-sized Kurdish autonomous region in the north of the country, established after the 1991 Persian Gulf War, remains an oasis of safety and tranquillity where young and old concern themselves with mundane matters of life like work, dating and home furnishings.

Even as Iraqis of means take their money and skills and abandon cities like Baghdad, Basra and Mosul, the Kurdish enclave has been thriving.

A massive real estate boom has transformed major cities like Sulaymaniyah and Irbil into noisy construction zones. The once desolate ring road around Sulaymaniyah, for example, is being filled up from scratch with apartment towers and commercial buildings on a scale seen only in the oil-rich Persian Gulf kingdoms.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=16&art_id=27298&sid=9833020&con_type=1&d_str=20060915

-- September 15, 2006 8:28 AM ∞

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Steve wrote:

Roger wrote:

"We eat a 6000 calorie meals, but are very strict about getting a "diet" soda to the meal. We have not really learned to count calories yet."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of all of my medical experiences, this has to take the cake. Nearly everyone with heart disease that comes through says the following: "Yes, I eat fried foods 3 times a week. But I always make sure to get a diet soda with every meal........"

Sigh.........

Paul,

You're welcome. I personally have been using SafeDinar and getting decent rates till now (although not anywhere near what you've been getting....). Make sure to check those notes for authenticity...........

Needless to say, I am making the switch to Chase.
I used to be concerned about liquidity so I went with smaller denominations incase a big RV occured. With this in place, I'll be buying 25k notes exclusively.

Roger and Seeker,

I'm in San Antonio. It was the branch on Culebra Road. I don't know the exact address off the top of my head. You might be correct Roger. The teller did say they just started it and it appeared that she might not have known that there was a difference in asking price and selling. She DID confirm that the exchanges were taking place both ways, but the price she quoted me may well have been a buyback price.......

I must apologize if this is the case. I will look into it this weekend.

HairyShirt (Fred),

Tell Lance that I have some detergent and a washing machine for sale.

Something tells me he won't get that message though................

-- September 15, 2006 10:28 AM ∞

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Bill1 wrote:

Been reading some of the recent posts speaking to the current conditions in Iraq, etc. There's a very good one at the top of the page by a Roger Isaksson, submitted by one of the regular posters here at the T&B, one which I believe hits the nail on the head when it comes to defining the stalemate in Iraq. He talks about the much needed [immediate] revaluation of the Iraqi Dinar to help catapult the country out of this quagmire of insurgent warfare, and I couldn't agree with him more.

Think of it ...even a modest revaluation at this point would indicate, more so than any other type of metric, that success really is taking place in Iraq despite the bombings and other terrorist activities. I would even go so far as to say it would just about demoralize the insurgency, by demonstrating to them that, "despite their best efforts at creating turmoil, hate, and disconent within the country, that Iraq is indeed rising from the ashes to become a democratic shining star in the Middle East.". It would also motivate and embolden Iraqis accross the board, and breath a much needed new life into their efforts to stabilize the country and jump start their economy. Remember, it wasn't that long ago when we were reading about how they were beginning to band together in their neighborhoods, to the point that they were openly cooperating with authorities (US and Iraqi) to help identify and turn-in known terrorist working for Iran's insurgency.

I loved reading those positive articles, and at that time really thought progress was being made and it wouldn't be long before Iraq was on her feet. But, it all lasted about five minutes, because rather than really sieze the initiative by assisting them as much as we could, somehow we allowed it to fizzle and once again the insurgents became proactive and we "reactive" to their schemes and operations. Seeing this take place, I'm certain, caused the everyday Iraqi to think more so in hopeless terms rather than positive ones, ultimately weakening their resolve, which was exactly the outcome the insurgency had hoped for.

We would all love a revaluation as NID holders/speculators for obvious reasons, but a positive revaluation of the dinar would be a HUGE slap in the face of the insurgency, and would work wonders in moving the country toward a higher level of stability. If we're really serious about claiming success in Iraq; if were really serious about ending this war sooner -- rather than later; and if we're really serious about getting our forces out of Iraq and putting a stop to throwing astronomical amounts of U.S. taxpayer dollars at restructure efforts; then its time for us to, "crap, or get off the pot.". Better than guns, bullets, bombs, bloodshed, and the like; we can deal the insurgents a harsh blow through economic manipulation. What better way to create a win/win situation for all concerned?... [JMO]

Good luck to all,

Bill1

-- September 15, 2006 3:58 PM ∞

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FRED wrote:

Bill 1,

Thanks. I do believe there are things happening. But I agree, it's far far to slow in the action department. It seems that any and all issue have to go one round or two through the UN. Documetns have sticky tape on them, and anyone that has to be briefed on the situation in Iraq, have to have a squirt of WD-40 sprayed into their ears to make the think machine run without squeking.

One might think that it is so obvious that the Iraq currency is hopelessly undervalued, graphs show a straight line on the Dinar value, while the consumer price index look like the vapor trails after a rocket going straight up.

As you say, we will benefit and be happy when a reval will happen, but set aside our own greed, or just cold unattached comments on graphs, the reality is, the Iraqis are suffering , and are suffering bad right now.

What gets me is the long inactivity on it, when the fix is comparably simple.

However, there is a lot of activity going to happen around the 17th-18th, here in a couple of days, and I'm watching with big ears, big eyes, like the wolf dressed up as the Red Riding Hood's grandma.

-- September 15, 2006 4:37 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All,

It's great to see everyone is still hanging on to relationships on this board. At my last posting, Lance wrote about George Soros and I couldn't agree more. For posts on these entries, look to last blog. However, I was speaking about General Georges Sada, a retired Iraqi Air Force Pilot and an Assyrian Christian. This man was responsible for taking care of our downed pilots during the 2003 war with Iraq. At one point, Quay wanted to kill all the pilots and this general quoted the Geneva Convention. As a result of his deviance, Saddam had the General jailed the next day. He was eventually let go and forced into retirement because of his lack of party afflication. He received training in Russia, France, Italy, Britain, and USA. He was only pilot with training in all these countries. He states in his book, Sadaam's Secrets, that Iraq had WMD's up through summer 2002. At that time, Sadaam had the weapons taken down by Russian Weapons Specialist and taken by truck and commercial air planes that had been gutted to Syria. Wonderful news, isn't it?.

Well gang, I think I too feel like Carl on the corruption issue in Iraq.

American's can't keep pouring dollars down the drain with no results. With what I am reading about the Iraq people, they are living in conditions of insecurity that we ourselves would never premit.

Whatever the sources of insurrection, we are going to have to stop kidding ourselves. We will need to commit more troops or get out!.

Our USA/British soldiers are not winning the hearts of the Iraqi people due to conditions the people are living under. We do not seem to have the will to win the peace. At least, that is what I am reading. No Results! If we are going to stay, we need to win the hearts of ordinary Iraqi's and get them involved in their country. Corruption, crime and security issues have to disappear.

Laura

-- September 15, 2006 4:39 PM ∞

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Mike wrote:

Are any of the Kurdish companies in the oasis of Kurdistan traded on the ISX?

-- September 15, 2006 5:20 PM ∞

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Dinar Phil wrote:

When will some people learn? Don't stir the pot until its time. Thank you mister pope guy for the ' comments ' about holy war today. This guy isn't a Rhodes scholar is he?

-- September 15, 2006 5:25 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sorry,
I'm not Fred, except when in hairy drag.

-- September 15, 2006 6:00 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Is anyone hearing of a r/v at .98 euro on Sunday? Seen this on some other sites today. Not trying to start a rumor, but would like to know if anyone with boots on the ground has heard anything.

Thanks
Terry

-- September 15, 2006 7:19 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Roger,

Not only did they shoot him but they did the same to his ol' lady too!

hehe!

Outlaw

-- September 15, 2006 7:30 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Terry... Can you please post a link to this information?

Thanks,
Outlaw

-- September 15, 2006 7:33 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Yes, she had too many shoes, shelfs after shelfs of them. Funny, Marcos widow had shelf after shalf of shoes also, but they didn't shoot her.

I say, if women have too many shoes, they have to get shot.

Terry,

This is my prediction. Oakland Oilers will win, New York Broncos, second, and Philladephia Packers third.

-- September 15, 2006 7:41 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Here is what I can get Outlaw. Seems to be some bickering since I read.

http://www.investorsiraq.com/226262-post278.html

http://www.investorsiraq.com/226005-post152.html

http://www.investorsiraq.com/226017-post161.html

I don't know what to make of it so I am asking the more informed on this site.
Thanks
Terry

-- September 15, 2006 7:55 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Laura,

Absolutely , the voice is more and more, "-Hey, show me the results".

Iraq is suppose to be a showpiece for democracy, but have turned into a joke.

Who wants to invest in a car parts plant over there.

Who wants to stroll in Baghdad, going to their Bazars and cafe's, on their vacation?

Only possibility , luckily, is the Big Oil, knowing they are going to be out in the desert with their operation.

I'm all ears now when this supposedly new program , or debt relief, or additional loans, or revaluation or whatever is supoosed to happen here very shortly. I hope they have a program that will really change things, not just Kofi Annan declaring another future hope, or something.

Laura, tell me something, I'm curious about Iran and the nuclear thing, your husband had some in, on the ammount and degree of enrichment. Can you stroke him gently in a way only a wife can do, and pump him on info about if he knows anything more about the enrichment.

Perhaps you can even get him to post something on this site about it.

-- September 15, 2006 8:03 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

SARA,

I LOVE YOU, you are not forgotten, you are part of our souls here.

Come back, have fun and laugh.

No time for right and wrong.

Dont regret yesterday, life is in you now, and we are looking for the future.

HUUUUUUUUUUUGGG

-- September 15, 2006 8:18 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Terry,

I as everyone would love to see a .98 EURO/Dinar but I agree with C1Jim's assement of the situtation in Iraq and a RV that high would drive Iraq into bankruptcy.

Everyone who has gone through the Baghdad International Airport... Remember the sign at Immigration... No more than 100,000 Dinar or $10,000 USD cn come into or out of Iraq without declaring to Customs. That would equal a ten cent RV. To me that sound more reasonable for an opening RV... and why would they post that at the Airport if they themselves didn't have that figure in mind?

Comments anyone???

Outlaw

-- September 15, 2006 9:01 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Thanks Outlaw.
Terry

-- September 15, 2006 9:08 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Just as a side note the 10k USD limit is a US Customs Reg. Even if you go to Canada you would have to claim that. the 100K IDR seems a little low compared. Has anyone ever iquired about that?
Thanks
Terry

-- September 15, 2006 9:17 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Checked the currency converter index.

1.27 Dollars = 1 Euro.

A Dinar at .98 Euro will be in Dollar, 1.24.

A Dinar revalued to 1.24 Dollar, sounds way way too high.

Then again, what will be hurt if you overvalue a currency is their export, thier only export of any substance is oil, and that one is in Dollars anyway, the rest of Iraqis export, that is depending on their Dinar is very small, so nothing significant will be hurt.

They CAN overvalue and get away with it.

I'm not against it, I'll take the money and run, and would do a dance inbetween there also, but in truth, seems a bit optimistic to me.

It will be very exciting to see after this weekend what (and if) they are coming up with.

-- September 15, 2006 9:29 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Terry,

That sign was very visible to all as you enter the Airport after landing. The last time I was in the Airport was this past Jan. and it was still posted then. I am sure that others who have passed through there more recent can verify if it is still on the wallor not...

As far as 100k IQD -VS- $10k??? Your guess would be as good as mine but as I said... That would mean a .10 USD/1 IQD RV.

Outlaw

-- September 15, 2006 9:30 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Outlaw, good point.
Thanks
Terry

-- September 15, 2006 10:06 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hmmm....well, lets say they do revalue to 1.24 dollars.

All they have to do is just to change the sign at the airport.

100 K in Dinars is about 64 bucks.(in todays value)

I just think that the limit of bringing out 64 bucks will be changed if they are about to do an overhaul on their currency.

Also the US restriction of bringing out more than $10K , is a US mandate based on our own economy.

I have a hard time seing that the artificially set US limit compared with the artificially set Iraq limit to bring out currencies would have any relevance to how much or little they will RV the Dinar(if they are RVing, that is).

I agree that a reval to between 1 and 15 cents is most real, but hey, they might go wild, they have no significant export in goods traded in Dinars, so as I say,
they CAN overvalue and get away with it.

-- September 15, 2006 11:17 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

Read your post and the answer is not good to your question on Iran. IAEA in 2003 found highly enriched uranium on a site that Iran supposely moved a lab site.

IAEA did not disclose how enriched in a News Week article that I have previously cited on this blog. Further, I am sure President Bush knows.

However, anything over 3 to 4 percent enrichment is for bomb making. My husband had previously spoken about this to me.

I had been reading about Sadaam's wmd's and one intelligence source stated that the State Dept. believed that the missiles were removed from Syria and went to Iran. These of course are all Russian made.

I think we are going to have a war with Iran. I hope I am wrong. However, I don't see President Bush simply walking away with over 300 billion dollars invested in Iraq.

Most of the articles I have read from most ordinary Iraqi's--are people who believe that the various factions are controlled by influences from Iran.

These are precious people caught inbetween with lack of security and not a big heart for America as conditions have gotten worse instead of better. However, even they state you cannot trust the ordinary Iraqi due to where their own alliance is. The sad reality is the only source of trust is in the USA military and it seems to the ordinary Iraqi, the military seems complacant (to allow the conditions to continue). Iran has infiltrated the Iraq country in influence and their own people.

This is rather depressing--if you are an ordinary American and after over 300 billion spent. America needs to start getting results.

-- September 16, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

---

George wrote:

Fred

This is George, Seeker's feet. I'd live to introduce you to my socks. I'm sure they would love the companionship as they get very lonely. Their ONLY friends are his shoes.
You see they are very shy. Everybody else shuns them with horror where ever they go. They curl there noses, make terrible faces and loud noises of discontent when ever they enter a room.
The only time they feel save is when they are in his shoes.
Mabe with you they could get out and relax a bit. Stretch out, just be themselves.
I must warn you though. I hope your intentions are honorable. Even though they relize it, I like them alot, and I am very protective of them. I rely on them a great deal and thier always there for me.
George

-- September 16, 2006 2:05 AM ∞

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FRED wrote:

My intentions are honorable and I promise to bring back your socks by 10 o clock, unhurt.

-- September 16, 2006 2:23 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura,

Iran, yes I can't see a soluton to it. I doubt a nuclear standoff, like the cold war is even in Irans interest.

The Iran regine go to go in the interest of mankind, and especially for the region as a whole.

It screws up so much in Iraq, as they are completely infiltrated, orchestrating all the internal fighting in Iraq, and then show a face as a mediator, trying to look like saviors for the mess they have created in the first place.

Problem is, the more you tighten a grip on a country, the more the people will come together in that country.

If there will be a war, perhaps it's better to have it done quickly and efficiently. Have it done and over with.

There will be only two participants, USA and Israel, either one of them will do it, maybe the Brits may be in , but I can assure you that the rest of the world will be on lookers commenting the ballgame, and condeming it ofcourse.

In their hearts they will be very glad that we were the ones doing thir dirty work for them again.

-- September 16, 2006 2:39 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

I know you are right about what kind of allies we will have with a war on Iran.

The problem is, the other countries like Russia, France, Italy and I have read that German companies have been supplying arms to Iran, Syria for profit.

It makes me sick that they will get rich on the arms deals--and leave good old USA and Israel to pick up the pieces.

Mr. Putin was niece enough to tell Israel, he would sell Syria missiles that Israel could shoot down.

Iran wants to be the new world power in the oil rich gulf i.e., like the USA. If we back down, they will come after us.

I hate to be speaking about blood and guts like this; as our soldiers will be the ones to pay--while the world sits on the sidelines.

On other news, my husband came home and told me that the IAEA has invited him to Europe to speak in the country of Hungry at end of November beginning part of December. Apparently, they have a nuclear power plant.

He stated, he is not sure he can go as the company he works for is in the middle of an outage. His boss is sleeping on the decision of whether he will let him go on company time.

We at one time went to Mexico on an IAEA conference. My husband with another expect from Finland gave a conference on Nuclear Equipment Qualification.

Apparently, he must have made a good impression on the IAEA sponsor. It's good to be recognized for one's expertise.

Whatever happened to Lance?

-- September 16, 2006 3:53 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Iraqi PM promotes reconciliation plan.

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 22 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged Iraqis Saturday to cast aside their sectarian, ethnic and political differences and embrace his national reconciliation plan.

The appeal came as Iraqi security forces announced they will dig trenches around Baghdad in an attempt to prevent insurgents and explosive-laden cars from getting into the sprawling city of 6 million. The U.S. military confirmed Saturday that there was a plan in progress to create a "security belt" around the capital.

"There is a plan in progress for a security belt around Baghdad that includes trenches and other obstacles for channeling exit from and entry to the city through checkpoints controlled by Iraqi forces. This is a cooperative effort between the Iraqi government and the Coalition," said Lt Col. Barry Johnson, a spokesman for Multinational Forces in Iraq. The Baghdad anti-terror trenches are intended to curb attacks such as three car bombings Saturday morning that killed at least eight people and wounded 25 more. Three more people were killed in other explosions, and police also found six bodies strewn around the city.

"No one should be part of the national reconciliation plan unless they recognize others, accept them as partners and totally reject any sectarian, ethnic or political differences," al-Maliki told a gathering of Iraqi non-governmental organizations.

For the rest of the storygo to: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

-- September 16, 2006 10:11 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Freedom Facts:

Women comprise 25% of the Iraqi Parliament, which is the highest proportion in the Arab world and one of the largest percentages worldwide.

-- September 16, 2006 10:20 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Generals: Reconstruction and security working in tandem throughout Iraq.
Friday, 15 September 2006

Iraqi Army Soldiers from the 2nd Iraqi Army Division scan the area after departing a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter during an air assault mission near Tafaria, Sept. 4. Department of Defense photo by Navy Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Jackey Bratt.BAGHDAD — Combined operations by Iraqi and Coalition forces continue to target al-Qaida terrorists at the same time as reconstruction projects continue throughout Iraq, Coalition officials told reporters on Thursday.

In a joint press conference, Multi-National Force – Iraq spokesman Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell, IV, and Maj. Gen. William H. McCoy Jr., commander of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Gulf Region Division, discussed progress being made on both the operational and reconstructions fronts.

Since August 30th, over 150 focused operations have been conducted in Iraq, Caldwell said. The operations resulted in 66 terrorists killed and over 830 suspected terrorists detained, as well as the discovery of multiple weapons caches. About 60 percent of the operations were carried out in al-Anbar province.

On the evening of Sept. 12 there was a series of 25 raids conducted in and around Baghdad, targeting al-Qaida in Iraq activities. The raids resulted in the capture of over 70 suspected terrorists, one of which was a personal associate of Abu Ayyub al-Masri.

The al-Masri associate was the leader of assassination, kidnapping and IED cells in Baghdad. He is known to have directly participated in numerous terrorist acts, including kidnappings and executions, directly contributing to enflaming sectarian violence throughout the city. He also played a key operational role in terrorist activities prior to and during Coalition operations in Fallujah in November 2004.

The Baghdad Security Plan is working, Caldwell said, with the levels of attacks, murders and other violence reduced in focus areas. However, the general cautioned, terrorist and death squads are targeting civilians outside of the focus areas, thus continuing to drive high levels of violence.

“Overall, Baghdad’s level of ethno-sectarian violence has been reduced by Operation Together Forward, but remains above the levels of violence we saw before the Golden Mosque bombing in Samarra in late February,” said Caldwell. “As we approach Ramadan, we know there is generally an increase in violence, and the Government of Iraq has ongoing planning to address this.”

The generals also reminded that security operations do not take place in a vacuum. As combined forces work to secure Iraq, thousands of reconstruction projects under way are providing another critical contribution to the country’s long-term success, McCoy said.

The United States has contributed almost $22 billion toward a massive rebuilding effort that’s critical to the BaghdadIraq’s progress toward democracy, he said. security plan and

Understanding the extent and impact of these projects is important to assessing conditions in Iraq, McCoy explained. He noted the American public is bombarded with news about violence in Iraq, but also needs insight into successes of the reconstruction program to get “a balanced view of how we are making a difference in the lives of the Iraqi people every day.”

McCoy told reporters about an ambitious reconstruction plan that’s helping address health, education, electricity, water, sewer, transportation, communications and other needs around the country. It ranges from short-term, relatively easy fixes like trash removal to an ambitious effort to increase power generation around the country. “We are making incredible headway in Iraq and in Baghdad,” he said. As of Sept. 12, more than 2,800 of more than 3,800 projects planned under the Iraq Reconstruction Program had been completed. Work has started on another 600.

McCoy described how an initiative called “Iraqi First” is ensuring as many contracts as possible for this effort go to Iraqi-owned businesses. “This empowers the citizens of Iraq to play a major role in rebuilding their nation and helps boost the nation’s economy,” McCoy said. “Likewise, in virtually every project that we are working on today, we work hand-in-hand with the (Iraqi) ministries at the national level and the local director generals. “By teaming with our Iraqi partners, we are building the foundation for continued success,” he said, “and helping build a brighter future for Iraq.”

In other developments throughout Iraq:

Iraqi Army units liberated a man who was being held and tortured by members of an illegal armed group in Ad Diwaniyah during an early-morning raid on September 14th.

Five suspected anti-Iraqi forces members were detained and a small cache of weapons and ammunition was discovered when Iraqi Army and Coalition forces conducted a raid on a suspected terrorist safe house.

Two Multi-National Division – Baghdad Soldiers were killed and 25 Soldiers were wounded by a suicide vehicle-borne improvised explosive device.

(Compiled from official DoD sources)

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5662&Itemid=18

-- September 16, 2006 10:28 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Muslim leaders demand apology for Pope's 'medieval' remarks.

John Hooper in Rome and Luke Harding in Berlin
Saturday September 16, 2006
The Guardian.

Pope Benedict XVI was last night facing angry demands from Muslims that he apologise for a speech in which he appeared to say the concept of jihad was "unreasonable" and quoted a medieval ruler who said Muhammad's innovations were "evil and inhuman".
Protests swept across the Islamic world and the furore threatened a scheduled visit by the Pope to Turkey.

The Vatican spokesman, Federico Lombardi, told Vatican Radio: "It was certainly not the intention of the Holy Father to undertake a comprehensive study of the jihad and of Muslim ideas on the subject, still less to offend the sensibilities of the Muslim faithful."

Father Miguel Ayuso Guixot, head of the Vatican's Pontifical Institute for Arabic and Islamic Studies, told the Guardian he feared the Pope's words had been "misinterpreted". He added: "The Pope has worked tirelessly for inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue and for tolerance."

In Turkey, however, where the Pope is due to visit in November, the deputy leader of the ruling party said Benedict had "a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the middle ages". Salih Kapusuz added: "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini."

Representatives of the two million Turks in Germany, where the comments were made, also expressed deep annoyance. The head of the Turkish community, Kenan Kolat, said they were "very dangerous" and liable to misunderstanding.

In Beirut, Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah, one of the world's top Shia Muslim clerics, said: "We demand that [the Pope] apologises personally, and not through [Vatican] sources, to all Muslims for such a wrong interpretation." An influential Iranian cleric branded his remarks "absurd". Ahmad Khatami told worshippers at Tehran University: "The Pope has insulted Islam."

By last night the protests had not spilled over into the kind of violence seen in February in protest against the Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad. But Diaa Rashwan, a Cairo-based analyst of Islamic militancy, warned that the comments were "more dangerous than the cartoons because they come from the most important Christian authority in the world. The cartoons just came from an artist."

The row broke out over a lecture given by the Pope on Tuesday at his old university at Regensburg. His central theme was one on which he has touched repeatedly in recent months - the need to reconcile faith and reason.

He quoted from a little-known medieval text recording debates between a Byzantine emperor and an educated Persian. The Pope recalled that the emperor had told his adversary: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict acknowledged the "startling brusqueness" of the remark, but went on to endorse fully the view that "spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1873914,00.html

-- September 16, 2006 10:32 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Woman Pleads Guilty in Fake Penis Case...


MCKEESPORT, Pa. (AP) -- A woman pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct in connection with a bizarre incident in February that resulted in a fake penis being microwaved at a convenience store.

Leslye Creighton, 41, of Wilkinsburg, entered the plea Wednesday, and authorities dropped the same charge against Vincent Bostic, 31, of Pittsburgh, who has agreed to help pay $425 to replace the store's microwave, police and the couple's defense attorney said.

Police in McKeesport, about 10 miles east of Pittsburgh, said the Feb. 23 incident began when Bostic filled a fake penis with his urine that they said Creighton planned to use to pass a drug test to get a job.

The two stopped at a GetGo! convenience store and, after wrapping the device in a paper towel, asked a store clerk to heat it up in a microwave, police said. Authorities said they believe Creighton wanted the device heated so the urine inside would be at body temperature during the drug test. The clerk, however, believing the lifelike device to be a severed penis, called police.

Defense attorney William Difenderfer said Creighton faces a maximum punishment of $300 and 90 days in jail when she is sentenced Nov. 15 by McKeesport District Judge Doug Reed. Difenderfer called it "a humorous, but weird, case."

© 2006 The Associated Press.

-- September 16, 2006 10:37 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

More than 1500 take part in national reconciliation meeting in Iraq .

POL-IRAQ-RECONCILIATION
More than 1500 take part in national reconciliation meeting in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Sept 16 (KUNA) -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki stressed Saturday the importance of protecting the national reconciliation project since it means protecting the country from terrorism.

In his opening speech at the second national reconciliation conference Al-Maliki said "our goals are big and they require patience and perseverance." He said "we need unity and the basis of unity is reconciliation and the principle of dialogue far away from extremism and violence." Al-Maliki noted that reconciliation means protecting national unity and the country from terrorism and joining efforts to strengthen the country's economy.

More than 1500 figures representing civil societies are taking part in the national reconciliation conference held by the supreme authority for national reconciliation and dialogue.

Earlier, Minister of State for civil societies' affairs Adel Al-Asadi told KUNA the conference will be an opportunity to exchange views and ideas to reach numerous solutions to allow decision-makers to solve political and social disputes. He believed the current circumstances will allow the conference to succeed especially because all parties are keen to reach a joint outlook on the future of Iraq.

He said political figures and representatives of civil societies such as human rights, organizations concerned with women and cultural affairs will give speeches on the first day of the two-day conference and on the second day these organizations will present work papers. Six committees will be formed to draft the final communiqu{.

President of the Iraqi Al-Amal organization told KUNA the success of the national reconciliation depends on reaffirming the principle of citizenship and putting pressure on political factions to stop adopting political dialogue that encourages extremism.

This is the second conference held by the supreme authority for national reconciliation and dialogue following the tribes' conference with the participation of more than 700 tribal leaders representing all the Iraqi tribes. (end) mhg.

KUNA 161138 Sep 06NNNN

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=905377

-- September 16, 2006 10:43 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Iraq not in a civil war -- Bush and top U.S. military commanders...

POL-U.S.-BUSH-IRAQ
Iraq not in a civil war -- Bush and top U.S. military commanders...

WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 (KUNA) -- Despite the ever-increasing numbers of bodies turning up around Iraq, President George W. Bush on Friday said that he and top U.S. military officials in Iraq do not agree that Iraq has descended into civil war.

While al-Qaeda and "Saddamists" are engaging in violence in Iraq, "the Baghdad security plan is making progress," Bush said during a White House press conference.

Responding to recent reports that Al Anbar province has been lost to terrorists, Bush said that is not the case. While Anbar is "a dangerous place" where al-Qaeda "is really trying to root themselves," Bush said the province is not lost.

" ... There is no question it is tough," the President said. "What I look for is whether or not the (Iraqi) unity government is moving forward, whether or not they have a political plan to resolve issues such as oil and federalism, whether or not they are willing to reconcile, and whether or not Iraqi troops and Iraqi police are doing their jobs." The Iraqi government is intact, working forward and making tough decisions, Bush said, "and we will stay with them" because success in Iraq is important for the United States.

"We are constantly changing our tactics," Bush said. "We are constantly adapting to the enemy." If the United States leaves the region and fails to help democracy prevail, "then our children and grandchildren will be faced with an unbelievable chaotic and dangerous situation in the Middle East," Bush said. "Imagine an enemy that cannot stand what we believe in getting hold of oil resources and taking a bunch of oil off the market in order to have an economic punishment," the President said. ... "Or imagine a Middle East with an Iran with a nuclear weapon threatening free nations and trying to promote their vision of extremism through Hezbollah." It is tough in Iraq because an enemy is trying to stop the new democracy, "just like people are trying to stop the development of a Palestinian state, which I strongly support, or people trying to undermine the Lebanese democracy, " he said.

The ideologues understand that liberty will trump their dark vision of the world every time, "and that is why call it an ideological struggle," Bush said. "And it is a necessary struggle, and it is a vital struggle." (end) rm.

KUNA 152050 Sep 06NNNN

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=905276

-- September 16, 2006 10:46 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

MIL-IRAQ-NEIGHBORS-INTERIOR
Iraq's neighbors to sign joint security protocol

JEDDAH, Sept 16 (KUNA) -- The preparatory meeting for interior ministers of Iraq's neighbors has referred a joint security protocol to the ministers, said Kuwait's Assistant Interior Undersecretary for Legal Affairs Major General Dr. Khalid Al-Osaimi on Saturday. Speaking to Kuwait News Agency (KUNA), he said the protocol would boost security cooperation and counter-terrorism efforts, as well as control borders, prevent infiltration, organized crime, and smuggling drugs. Furthermore, he said a recommendation had been made to establish a secretariat based in Baghdad assigned with coordination and follow ups to this effect. He added that the interior ministers would be signing a joint statement at the conclusion of their meetings stressing the importance of cooperation to boost security in Iraq and its neighboring states. (end) ay.

KUNA 161242 Sep 06NNNN

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=905401

-- September 16, 2006 10:51 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

POL-JORDAN-MIDEAST
Arabs must support Iraq, prevent external interference -- Jordanian King

LONDON, Sept 16 (KUNA) -- Jordan's King Abdullah II called upon Arabs on Sunday to support Iraq and prevent "any external attempt to interfere in its affairs." Speaking to the London-based "Al-Hayat" newspaper, he said, "Let us leave Iraq to the Iraqis and leave it to them to determine their country's future." The King warned of the "daily deteriorating" security situation that could lead to a "civil war that will destabilize the whole region." On Lebanon, he said that there were those who wanted the country to remain unstable, adding that these parties were "aware that we will not allow them to play this dangerous role in Lebanon and the region." He added, "I think it is time to let the Lebanese decide on their own affairs and future without interference or pressure." As for the Palestinian issue, King Abdullah said that if negotiations did not start soon to establish an independent Palestinian state then "people of the region will be doomed to live difficult and violent years." Talking about the Iranian nuclear file, he hoped the crisis would not lead to a military confrontation as "our region cannot take another catastrophe that we will all pay for." And on Jordanian-Syrian relations, he said, "I cannot honestly describe them as excellent." King Abdullah said, however, that "relations between institutions and authorities are normal and delegations exchange visits." (end) aa.

KUNA 161146 Sep 06NNNN

-- September 16, 2006 10:55 AM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Outlaw wrote:

"I as everyone would love to see a .98 EURO/Dinar but I agree with C1Jim's assement of the situtation in Iraq and a RV that high would drive Iraq into bankruptcy.

Everyone who has gone through the Baghdad International Airport... Remember the sign at Immigration... No more than 100,000 Dinar or $10,000 USD cn come into or out of Iraq without declaring to Customs. That would equal a ten cent RV. To me that sound more reasonable for an opening RV... and why would they post that at the Airport if they themselves didn't have that figure in mind?

Comments anyone???

Outlaw"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

.98 Euro I must agree is outrageous. The only possibilities I see if such an RV were to take place are:

1)A zero lop
2)We find out after the fact that the CBI M1 and M2 figures were deliberately misleading.
3)A currency reissue

I find all of the above to be implausible, therefore do not believe a reval of such epic proportions will take place.

Yes, IIF has a rumor circulating on it right now that an RV of .93Euro or so is going to happen at 2am EST Sunday (9/17).

I don't see it happening. No Hydrocarbon Law + No FIL yet = No RV. Simple.

Too much foot dragging if you ask me. Iraqi politicians need to spped up the process substantially or they will find themselves governing a shattered and fragmented Iraq. US impatience is growing as well. I think Junior and the gang are going to start tightening the clamps on Al-Malikis boys as we head into 2007.

Time is ticking. The Iraqi people are starting to grumble much louder now and Bush has about 2 years left to salvage the situation. Will the Iraqi government cooperate? They haven't so far.

-- September 16, 2006 5:18 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

Not for nothin, but the $10,000 limit when entering a country, is worldwide as far as I know, I've traveled to 7 different countries in the last 2 years and all of them have the $10,000 U.S Dollar limit for "Declaration" or equivalent currency. (Japan, Australia, New Zealand, England, Mexico, Canada, Miami etc.. As far as having more than $10,000 U.S dollars worth of NID outside Iraq, The C.B.I auctions off millions everyday for International Exchange. I don't think this will make a differnece when they R.V, We must all keep in mind, for every 1 million we exchange (small investor), there will be 10 big banks buying 100 million.

-- September 16, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

MARK wrote:

Not for nothin, but the $10,000 limit when entering a country, is worldwide as far as I know, I've traveled to 7 different countries in the last 2 years and all of them have the $10,000 U.S Dollar limit for "Declaration" or equivalent currency. (Japan, Australia, New Zealand, England, Mexico, Canada, Miami etc.. As far as having more than $10,000 U.S dollars worth of NID outside Iraq, The C.B.I auctions off millions everyday for International Exchange. I don't think this will make a differnece when they R.V, We must all keep in mind, for every 1 million we exchange (small investor), there will be 10 big banks buying 100 million.

-- September 16, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

Mark,

I agree with what you said but; I think you missed my point... As of Jan. of this year, as I understand what was posted at the Baghdad Airport, they were saying that 100K IQD was equal to $10K USD.

Outlaw

-- September 16, 2006 6:04 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

A follow-up to my last comment... I think that in Jan. the CBI was going to RV the Dinar and gave this information to the Iraqi Customs, who made up this sign and posted it at the Airport. A great deal of problems caused a delay of the RV and the sign was never removed. No one knows if that will be the same rate the CBI uses when they actually do RV the Dinar, but I do believe that .10 USD/1 IQD was the intended rate in Jan. 2006.

Outlaw

-- September 16, 2006 6:18 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

OUTLAW:
I guess I did, SORRY About That, I didn't mean to sound rude or offensive, but if that sign has been up since January, What does that mean???? Were they just throwing that number out there??? because $10,000 dollars worth of Dinars would be close to 15 million Dinars. Who knows, I like $1.20, but if it exchanges @ .10, that would still be the best investment I've ever made.

-- September 16, 2006 6:22 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Mark,

I agree... where can you invest $700 and get $10,000 in return???

Outlaw

-- September 16, 2006 6:24 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

TRUE DAT, TRUE DAT. Sunday can't come any faster, NFL and CBI opening

-- September 16, 2006 6:41 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Roger,

Aa far as Sara is concerned... She'll be back...

Ever since I first started cruising this site,(which has been awhile) Sara has used tactics that would make Hezbolla proud of her... She'll suddenly appear and very gradually introduce or entice the conversation of Religion. When she gets a positive response, she'll then bombard the site with massive amounts of non-stop spiritual rockets until the Bloggers can't take it no more and revolt. She'll then throw a temper tantrum, trying to draw sympathy or guilt, then lays low, while compiling a new supply of spiritual ammunition for the eventual next attack...

Trust me Roger, you haven't heard the last from Sara! (hehe)

Outlaw

-- September 16, 2006 9:35 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Pope stops short of apology to Muslims...
By FRANCES D'EMILIO, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago

VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI "sincerely regrets" offending Muslims with his reference to an obscure medieval text that characterizes some of the teachings of Islam's founder as "evil and inhuman," the Vatican said Saturday. But the statement stopped short of the apology demanded by Islamic leaders around the globe, and anger among Muslims remained intense. Palestinians attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza over the pope's remarks Tuesday in a speech to university professors in his native Germany.

An Iraqi insurgent group threatened the Vatican with a suicide attack over the pope's remarks on Islam, according to a statement posted Saturday on the Web. "We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life," said the message posted in the name of the Mujahedeen Army on a Web site frequently used by militant groups. The message's authenticity could not be independently verified. The statement was addressed to "you dog of Rome" and threatens to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home."

For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/ap_on_re_eu/pope_muslims

-- September 16, 2006 9:57 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Violence surges in Baghdad after lull.
By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 16, 6:51 PM ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq - After a one-day lull, bloodshed surged again in the capital Saturday, with at least 17 people dead in attacks and 27 probable victims of sectarian killings found dumped in the streets as Iraq's prime minister launched a fresh appeal for reconciliation. Violence has escalated sharply in Baghdad over the past week, except for Friday, when only three killings were recorded — two Iraqis shot to death and a U.S. soldier killed by a bomb. Saturday's toll raised the city's violent deaths to more than 180 just since Wednesday — either slain by bombs and gunfire or tortured and shot before being dumped, a hallmark of reprisal killings being waged between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

Appealing again to Iraq's divided sects, Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged Iraqis to put aside their sectarian, ethnic and political differences and embrace his reconciliation plan. "National Reconciliation is a correct way of thinking and carries a high feeling of responsibility," al-Maliki said. "To succeed in this today, we have to embrace the culture of dialogue and reconciliation." Al-Maliki's plan is intended to bridge the communal animosities fueling Iraq's violence. Among its 24 points, it offers amnesty to members of the Sunni Arab-led insurgency not involved in terrorist activities and calls for disarming primarily Shiite sectarian militias.

For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

-- September 16, 2006 10:36 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Training Iraqi troops a logistical feat!
By REBECCA SANTANA, Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 16, 1:57 PM ET

TAJI, Iraq - Iraq has one of the world's largest oil reserves, but the Iraqi army can't get enough fuel for its tanks. It also can't get spare parts for its trucks or supply ammunition on its own. While the U.S. training program has made great progress teaching Iraqi soldiers how to fight, the force still relies on American help for distributing supplies — a dependency that is another obstacle to sending U.S. troops home. "Just because you stand up all the fighters, all the combat arms organizations, they're not self-sustaining until they have some form of a logistics system," said Brig. Gen. Rebecca Halstead, commander of the 3rd Corps Support Command. "It's not there yet."

As U.S. commanders worked the past three years to build Iraqi security forces, priority went to forming combat units capable of fighting Sunni Arab insurgents. The task of maintaining those troops was left to U.S.-led coalition forces — who got Iraqis to their missions, gave them ammunition, fed them and, in many cases, even gave them their pay. Even in areas where Iraqis have taken over security duties, they need help getting supplies from central and regional storage facilities. In volatile Anbar province, a hot bed of insurgents, it has been especially challenging for the Iraqis to keep troops supplied with food and water. So there is now an emphasis on building an effective Iraqi logistics operation.

Of the roughly 120,000 Iraqi soldiers, about 10 percent to 15 percent are involved in supply-related activities, said Maj. Gerald Ostlund, a coalition spokesman. By contrast, for every combat soldier in American and other foreign contingents, there are three performing support or logistics roles, U.S. officials say. The Iraqi military won't need quite the same ratio since they have a local economy to rely on for food, housing, equipment and repairs, unlike the Americans who need to import just about everything, said Michael O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institution, a Washington D.C. think tank. Brig. Gen. Terry Wolff, commander of the Coalition Military Assistance and Training Team that is helping Iraqis build their army, said Iraq also won't need the resources for moving troops around the world. But many Iraqi logistical units are still understaffed, Wolff said. For example, here at the Taji National Depot, a clearinghouse for supplies going to units across Iraq, the goal is to have about 1,200 Iraqi soldiers working at the post 12 miles north of Baghdad, but there are only about 300 now.

The American military's logistics system uses high-tech tracking devices such as radio monitors that allow items to be followed from when they leave storage in the U.S. until they arrive in Iraq. The Iraqis use a low-tech system. Some is computerized. But records are mostly kept on paper, which means supplies can easily be lost or stolen before they get to the units that need them. It's a system ripe for corruption, said John Pike, director of Globalsecurity.org, a research group in Washington. "The prevailing community standard is steal everything that isn't nailed down. And when you find something that is nailed down, to go to find a crowbar," Pike said.

For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_logistics

-- September 16, 2006 10:44 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

U.S. military deaths in Iraq hit 2,681.
By The Associated Press
Sat Sep 16, 6:56 PM ET

As of Saturday, Sept. 16, 2006, at least 2,681 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians. At least 2,131 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers.

The AP count is five more than the Defense Department's tally, last updated Friday at 10 a.m. EDT.

The British military has reported 118 deaths; Italy, 32; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Denmark, El Salvador, four each; Slovakia, three; Estonia, Netherlands, Thailand, two each; and Australia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Romania, one death each.

___

The latest deaths reported by the military:

• No deaths reported.

___

The latest identifications reported by the military:

• Marine Lance Cpl. Ryan A. Miller, 19, Pearland, Texas; killed Thursday in Anbar province; assigned to 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, 3rd Marine Division, III Marine Expeditionary Force, Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.

___

On the Net:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_deaths_2

-- September 16, 2006 10:51 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Re Sara, you just got to love her, this silence is her punishment. Eventually the kid is hungry and will come out and ask for a sandwich.

Re rumor on peg to Euro,

All I know is a person posting something on Iraqinvestor site in the rumor department, one saying that an anynomous person (his contact) had called,and having said that this will be the peg.

Another person asked the right questions, right after that, WHO told you, WHAT phone number, WHAT's his name, and so on, but the original poster didnt answer that.

The word IFF is tossed in there, but the data originated from this lone poster that didnt answer up more, other than claiming it will happen.

I have not seen ANY other data about this ANYWHERE, unless it's the same data this poster did issue, that is reissued elsewhere.

What I see is a lot of dates of significances coinciding, and I'm very very interested seing what , if any, will come out of it.

I do however share Steves position of caution.

I did see a missunderstanding regarding the auction though, and thought to fill in about it.

The auctions in itself is not too relevant as to either how much or how little Dinars are out there.

If I may, get a little technical here.

The auction is to get Dollar backed Dinars out, but in technical terms, it's a reversed auction, the auction itself is DOLLAR auctioned.

On Oilnotes, and other Dollar income, the finance ministry are selling those notes to the CBI for daily expenses. Those Dollars are in turned Auctioned off for Dinars.

It's getting a little bit intricate here.

First it must be understood that the Iraq bank system is set up from a dicatator that had Stalinistic Communism as his raw model.

The banks involved in the auction is mainly state controlled banks, and a few other independent.

So the auction is basically in most part an auction where they do a buy back of the Dollar.

Very simple stated, it's an in house buy and sell.

The auction is mainly for the daily expenses, but any oilnote, can ofcourse be directly swapped for Dinars versus Dollars at will.

The TOTAL Dollar income is not reflected in the auction, as the total Dollar income can either be sold on auction in full, in part or not at all.

Overflow, Dollars that is not put on the auction, can either be put into the reserves,, be on hold for another auction, or be used as expenses when Dollars are needed.

Dollars sold on the auction, will be bought up mainly by statebanks (but not all) , that will mean, the banks are giving out Dinars back to CBI.

Contractors deposting Dollars in the banks, can swap with CBI for Dinars, using auction, to determine the Dinarvalue, and just do a normal currency exchange for the rest.

The banks in the neighbouring countries can principally do the same with the difference that their Dollar source is the direct sales from the Dinars.

So, even if it would be true to say that they are auctioning off their Dinars, strictly speaking, it's an, in house, reverse sell of the Dollar, to themselves.

Ministry of finance, goes to CBI, sells to state banks, it's all in the same bag.

To put it very simple, Dollars goes into the house, and Dinars get out.

Now, if you want to find data on Iraqs Total income, or outgo of currency, you have to look elsewhere than on the auction site.

The auction have two purposes, get the daily Dinars needed for the goverment expenses, and control the Dinars value.

So the goverments expenses might be one huge chunk of the auctioned Dollars, and a small part might be the sum needed to calibrate the sum needed to keep the Dinar in the right valuerange.

I have not found where the two are split apart, the CBI only announces the total of Dollar auctioned, and how much was going abroad.

To determine any ammount of Dinars in Iraq, outside of Iraq, or Dollars in the reserve by trying to add up numbers mentioned in the auction is meaningless.

They are not there, if you can find the Iraq Goverment current spreadsheet you will have those numbers.

All this will pretty soon be meningless anyway, because they are trying as soon as possible to start a modern banking system.

Okies report about Warka have convinced me that at least on the private bank sector in Iraq, they have done some really big steps, and I strongly suspect that a bank of CBI magnitude, with the help of a lot of aidworkers, will follow suit very soon.

-- September 16, 2006 10:56 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Two more journalists killed in Iraq.
Julia Day
Thursday September 14, 2006
MediaGuardian.co.uk

Two journalists have been killed by unidentified gunmen in Iraq, just three days after an editor at the country's state-run newspaper al-Sabah was murdered. The deaths highlight the fact that journalists continue to be targeted in Iraq simply for doing their job of reporting the news, said the New York-based press watchdog, the Committee to Protect Journalists.

Freelance photographer Safa Isma'il Enad, 31, was shot in a photo print shop in Baghdad on Tuesday, according to the Journalistic Freedoms Observatory, an Iraqi press freedom organisation run by local journalists. Two gunmen entered the store and asked for Enad by his first name, a source told the CPJ. When the photographer replied, he was shot. Enad had worked for the now-defunct Tikrit-based al-Watan paper, which was affiliated with the US-funded Iraqi National Movement. The paper, which closed two months ago due to lack of money, is trying to re-establish itself as a magazine.

Another journalist, and representative of the Iraqi Journalists Syndicate, was killed on the same day in the Iraqi eastern province of Diyala. Hadi Anawi al-Joubouri, 56, was ambushed as he was driving 125 miles northeast of Baghdad, according to the Journalistic Freedoms Observatory. His body was found riddled with bullets. CPJ is investigating the circumstances surrounding his death.

For the rest of the story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1872335,00.html

-- September 16, 2006 10:59 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Inside Baghdad: last battle of a stricken city.

For two weeks Peter Beaumont, Foreign Affairs Editor, has travelled across Baghdad with the US military. In this remarkable dispatch he describes a desperate struggle to stop a brutal sectarian conflict from ripping the city apart

Sunday September 17, 2006
The Observer

Karima Mohammed's men were taken on 5 September. Her husband Saleh Ahmed Mahmoud, 50, and 17-year-old son, Ghazan Saleh Ahmed, were seized by men wearing the uniform of the Iraqi police near the filling station in Zafaraniya in southern Baghdad. The day after they disappeared, her husband's brother received a threatening phone call. He would not tell Karima what the caller said, only that it was 'sectarian' in nature. Since then she has heard nothing. Karima now fears the worst. It would be hard not to - between Wednesday and Friday more than 130 bodies were found, dumped on the dusty streets, the fetid rubbish tips, and floating in the sewers and rivers of the capital. Yesterday morning there were a further 47 corpses. Those killed by sectarian violence now far outnumber Iraqis being killed by suicide car bombs and insurgent attacks - more than 50 have died that way in the city in the past 72 hours.
Karima is a Sunni and her misfortune is to live in a largely Shia area - a stronghold of the Jaish al-Mahdi, the militia of the firebrand preacher Moqtada al-Sadr, a group implicated in the campaign of attacks against Sunni families across Baghdad. In Zafaraniya, bombs have been thrown at Sunni houses. A Sunni mosque has come under attack. People, like Karima's husband and son, have simply disappeared.

Surrounded by her remaining children in the courtyard of her modest home, Karima bursts into tears. 'I am so scared. We don't have any news of them. We can't sleep at night we are so terrified. We are so poor. My family relies on my husband and my son for their wages to live on.' The soldiers of Bravo Battery of the 4-320th Artillery of the US 101st Airborne Division, who came to Zafaraniya on Friday to follow up abduction cases involving Sunnis in the area, are shocked by Karima's plight. They empty their Humvees of anything they can find to help her and her children.

What is happening in Zafaraniya is not unique in the capital. Sunni families in largely Shia neighbourhoods, and Shia families in majority Sunni areas, are being driven out of their homes in the rapidly worsening campaign of sectarian violence and intimidation.

Inspired by Islamic history, a plan for a ditch around Baghdad was announced on Friday to try to stem the flow of weapons being smuggled into the capital. 'Trenches will be dug in the coming weeks,' the Interior Ministry spokesman, Brigadier Abdul-Kareem Khalaf, said. 'They will surround Baghdad.' Khalaf said the plan would restrict vehicle and pedestrian traffic to 28 guarded entry points. The idea was inspired by the Battle of Khandaq in AD627, when Prophet Muhammad protected the city of Medina from an army by digging trenches.

For the rest of the story: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1874375,00.html

-- September 16, 2006 11:06 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Correction.

The line : "Contractors depositing Dollars in the banks.....

Better say: The Banks, can swap Dinars and Dollars using CBI's auction, and for the overspill use normal currency exchange, to get Dinars back for payment for the contractors employees.

-- September 16, 2006 11:08 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

New bills spark panic-buying!

Sunday August 20, 2006
The Observer

Zimbabweans went on a panic-buying spree this weekend ahead of a switch to a new currency tomorrow that will see three zeroes deleted from the old tender.
Under the move being introduced by Robert Mugabe's government to offset the country's hyperinflation, which is at 1,000 per cent, an old Z$50,000 bill will be replaced by a new Z$50 bill. The value will be the same, just under 50p.

Shoppers with bags of notes were buying any asset that would hold its value, from refrigerators to whisky and goats.

'Everyone is counting their money to figure out what to buy so they won't get caught with the old currency,' said Iddah Mandaza, a Harare shop assistant. People are only permitted to convert Z$100m (£88) a day into the new tender. Anyone caught with more must prove how they earned it - difficult in an agricultural economy where farmers rarely bother with receipts. Police are seizing trillions of the old currency. 'There are roadblocks everywhere and police are searching cars and buses. They do body searches. They are confiscating money,' said Mandaza.

The new currency, called bearer cheques, is printed on flimsy paper. 'It looks like toilet paper and it won't hold its value as long as that,' said Mandaza. Economists say there will be a short-term gain in convenience but inflation could end the year at 2,000 percent, adding back the zeroes. 'It will take more than just lopping off zeroes to fix the economy,' said Professor John Makumbe, of the University of Zimbabwe. 'Corruption must stop, agricultural and industrial production must revive, but the government is not willing to do those things so Zimbabweans will continue to suffer.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1854231,00.html

-- September 16, 2006 11:09 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Hey All,

I have been getting bored on the Iraqi news front. Same old, Same old. I decided to read the oil news.

I ran across a cite that I thought you all might be interest in.

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/about/newsreleases/2004/speeches/01282004_speech.shtml

The person speaking is Texas Secretary of State Geoff Connor on 1/28/04. He states that Iraq at her 1980 peak was producting 3 million barrels of oil a day. He had some other comments about Iraq as well.

Laura

-- September 17, 2006 6:40 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

It would be nice to see a RV before XMAS!

-- September 17, 2006 7:52 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

C1Jim,

It would be nice to see a RV at all.

-- September 17, 2006 10:36 AM ∞

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Mattuk wrote:

Nelly.B...don't have a ticket for the pig roast in the keys...but would liked to be offered one when the big day is annouced...but i am on the dinar train looking forward to its destination.

Roger, thank you for the welcoming...as you mentioned, I agree, Iraq is in a very unique situation...as for the impending RV I want it to come soon but have my doubts because of the way things have panned out so far...having said that, I believe a strong RV is possible because at first people like us will cashin to cover our initial investment and some but will hang on to the majority of it to let it grow.(because we beleive it will)? We are very much small fry in comparison to the big world banks and institutions who have invested and I'm sure we will have very little effect on the flutuation of the rate exchange. Big contract companies from all over the world are queuing up to get in there to do business and have faith that the chances of prosperity in the region is pretty likely and business opportunities will/are be abundant, there waiting on reassurances that there not going to get shafted once they do. 1 euro to 1 dinar is'nt so far fetched in my opinion and a good spot to start and grow.
I can't see how they can pay international corporations for construction etc and for imports so badly needed for there people and economy at the present rate...it would be such a rip off ...I reckon as some one(s) stated... its how the rest of the world perceives its value will determine how stable it can be on the world stage...just me waffling again........matt

-- September 17, 2006 11:15 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

The 769 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Sunday 2006 / 9/ 17 so the results were as follows :

Number of banks 13

Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1474

Auction price buying dinar / US $ -----

Amount sold at auction price (US $) 75.990.000

Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) -----

Total offers for buying (US $) 75.990.000

Total offers for selling (US $) -----

Cash amounts sold to the bank and its customers were USD(38.640.000) at
a rate of(1474+1+10=1485)IQD\USD.

The amount sold to make transfers abroad was USD (37.350.000) at a rate of (1474-2)+ one dinar as a bank fee and exempt the transferred amount from conversion fee.

http://www.cbiraq.org/cbs6.htm

-- September 17, 2006 11:55 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Well Gang...

As you can see above, $76M that is the highest I've ever seen... Does it mean something?

Outlaw

-- September 17, 2006 12:12 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Mattuk......Welcome!.....Don't worry about the pig roast in the Keys.....go for the big one in Phuket, Thailand. With all the money you're going to make on the Dinar you can go to several pig roasts.

I agree...with all the construction they have to do.....an rv of around $1 is very reasonable. Right now the equation is weighted more towards politics than economists.

I think the Rv has a good chance of happening prior to Ramadan on 9/24. If not, then later this year.

-- September 17, 2006 12:49 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mattuk,

Yes, you have a very good point. A strong RV IS possible.

I say POSSIBLE, but not necessarily what they WILL do.

I have argued for some time that the possibility is there, on the grounds that a strong currency will buy the Iraqis a lot of goods, and wealth from the outside world. He will suddenly have a lot to choose from, and prices will be held down because of a healthy competition.

His export that is based on Dinars will suffer, but in Iraqs unique situation, that is only 15% of the export, rest is in oil, and it is not based on Dinars, but in Dollars.

I said it a couple of times, they CAN do a high RV ...and get away with it.

I have heard arguments that Iraq will go bankrupt in a month if they do, because if they do, the argument goes, they have to back a so much higher valued Dinar with Dollars they dont have.

They dont have to, the Dinar is in itself so much higher valued, that THIS is the value the country now have.

If a Dollar or Euro or Dinar have approximately the same value, THATS the value it now have.

If a Dinar in the past had a value of 10 Dinars to ONE cent, and they have (lets say) 10 Billions Dollars in the reserve. That doesnt mean that if you revalue the Dinar to , lets say a Dollar or a Euro or thereabouts,, you now must get 1000 times more Dollars in the reserve.

The only difference is, you now have a Dinar that is worth a buck, and you still have 10 mill Dollars in the reserve.

It's all in the head, it is worth as much as we SAY it will be worth.

I'm not saying it will happen, but there is nothing that will stop them from doing so.

I'm amuzed to see long equations telling me that if a countrys equity have rised 1000 fold in value, the country will be bankrupt in a month. The Iraqi will supposedly run and get as much Dollars as he can, with his Dinars.

Why in the heavens and earth should ANY Iraqi run and get Dollar for the Dinars, he dont have to, he have the Dinar in his hand, it's ALREADY the same value as the Dollar, and he knows it might most probably in the future go even higher.

In former Soviet, the eastern countries, had a bit of what they call "chock treatment" to pass over from a socialistic to a free market economy. That gave a lot of internal troubles, as all the social networks was torn down mercilessly, and replaced with capitalism, the people suffered quite a bit in the transition.

When it comes to Iraq however, it's like Russia, they are slooooooow in dismatling the old structure, a big section of people are still dependent on the Iraqi state for food parcels or other support mechanisms for their immediate survival.

Given the social unrest currently underway in Iraq, pulling out the social system in an overnight operation, would probably trigger a civil war, already close at hand.

If they hold onto the goverment handouts, in the meanwhile as they are doing a chock treatment it will work, The cost of those foodparcels will be so much less of a burden with a revalued Dinar, and the possibility of getting rid of the socialistic system will be so much easier.

I do however think in the long run, the Iraqis are better off doing a fairly decent raise in the Dinar value, and do it more often, rather than doing the chock treatment.

Then again, if the Dinar goes to a buck or thereabouts, I'll quit my daytime job.

-- September 17, 2006 12:58 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

No it doesnt mean too much, read my post about how the auction is done.

You only see part of the countrys total in and total out on the auction.

-- September 17, 2006 1:00 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

OUTLAW:
I have the same questions??? 4 months ago, the daily average was 45 million and this week we see it's up to 66.8 million a day. Does this mean that Iraq is putting away 66 million U.S Dollars a day????

-- September 17, 2006 2:46 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Mark:
I am not really sure where the money is going but; if I had to make a guess, I'd say that the chances are that the Minister of Finance or the CEO of the CBI could be stealing most of the funds... Time will tell.

Outlaw

-- September 17, 2006 3:07 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Pope sorry for reaction to his remarks.
By PIER PAOLO CITO, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago

CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was "deeply sorry" about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that did not reflect his personal opinion. Despite the statement, protests and violence persisted across the Muslim world, with churches set ablaze in the West Bank and a hard-line Iranian cleric saying the pope was united with President Bush to "repeat the Crusades."

An Italian nun also was gunned down in a Somali hospital where she worked, and the Vatican expressed concern that the attack was related to the outrage over the pope's remarks. Benedict sparked the controversy when, in a speech Tuesday to university professors during a pilgrimage to his native Germany, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam's founder, as "evil and inhuman."

On Sunday, he stressed the words "were in fact a quotation from a medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought." "At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," the pope told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.

For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/ap_on_re_eu/pope_muslims_53

-- September 17, 2006 3:17 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mark, Outlaw,

No the auction is not a tell tale of where the money is, find a spreadsheet over Iraq whole economy and it will tell more.

Once again,

the auction have two puroses,
1. To get DINARS needed for DAILY goverment expenses.
DOLLARS are auctioned in a reverse auction.
2. To hold the Dinars in its current value.

So the DOLLARS auctioned might be in PART the daily need for Dinars, and IN part the balance needed to calibrate the Dinar value.

The TOTAL Dollar in, might be fully, in part or not at all sold to the CBI for Dinars. The TOTAL Dollar in, may be put into reserve, hold for another auction, or used for expenses where Dollar is needed.

The DOLLARS AUCTIONED, is DOLLARS exchanged for Dinars, from the Finance Ministry to CBI. However, CBI may at their choosing either hold OR AUCTION off Dollars, according to the need, not according to how much the Finance ministry is exchanging Dinars for Dollar.

SO, it is meaningless to look at the numbers in the auction, to determine how much Dinars is out there, how much Dinars is held, How many Dollars they have in the reserve.

-- September 17, 2006 5:17 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

OUTLAW:
Another good question! If in fact IRAQ is making $66 million a day with their daily currency auctions coupled with whatever they make off the oil exports, IRAQ should have a nice little cash reserve. I also think that if it R.V's at $1.00, a large number of small time investors (myself included), will cash out and then the big boys will step in (RICH BOYS/ BANKS) and they'll buy up all the Dinars we cash in and hold them in hopes of it rising to $3.00. What do you think??? Keep in mind this my opinion and I really don't know what I'm talking about.

-- September 17, 2006 5:35 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

MARK,

Im close to giving up.

If 66 mil a day is auctioned off, this doesnt mean that Iraq did 66 mil that day, all it means is that the CBI did put those money on the auction. Iraq as a whole might have made 150 or zero millions that day.

-- September 17, 2006 6:01 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

The oil export money can be exchanged fully partly or not t all to the CBI, the CBI is taking either that full ammount they get from the oil export, part or not at all. The CBI will Auction off the DOLLAR, basically to themselves in something that could be described as a reversed auction.

They didnt MAKE any money on the auction, they basically did a Dollar Dinar swap.

-- September 17, 2006 6:08 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

"Dear class, today we're going to talk about airplanes, they fly differntly from helicopters and balloons. They fly by means of wings, that works in the way that different pressures is achieved when it travels through a gas.

Any question in the class?

Yes, you, with the propeller on the hat.

-Where do you put the Helium in the wing, in order for it to fly?

-- September 17, 2006 6:14 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Mark: That's not how I see things...

1) I believe Roger has a good understanding of the daily currency auction. "The DOLLARS AUCTIONED, is DOLLARS exchanged for Dinars, from the Finance Ministry to CBI. However, CBI may at their choosing either hold OR AUCTION off Dollars, according to the need, not according to how much the Finance ministry is exchanging Dinars for Dollar."

Surely that's an internal exchange of currency between the internal banks and the internal government, not selling of dinars directly to foreign buyers for exchange of dollars. I don't see how Iraq is 'making' any money by doing this.

2) Daily oil production of (currently) around 2.5 Million barrls per day. Arbitary selling price of around $70 per barrel, profit of $40 per barrel at best, 25% of oil revenue lost to corruption...

2,500,000 x 40 x 0.75 = $75,000,000 per day... not bad...

until you consider that this is 85% of their total exports...

so 75,000,000 x 85 / 100 = $88,235,294 is roughly the money coming into the country each day from all exports...

Divide that by 26,000,000 people in Iraq = $3.39 per day for each person in Iraq.

Doesn't sound like a fortune now, does it?

-- September 17, 2006 6:39 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

ROGER: Thanx for both classes, I was typing my last post when you gave your 5:17pm class. Thanx for the info, as I stated, "I really DON'T Know" what I'm talking about when it comes to Economics/World Markets etc...
And by the way, That's my favorite hat

-- September 17, 2006 6:41 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

ROGER: Thanx for both classes, I was typing my last post when you gave your 5:17pm class. Thanx for the info, as I stated, "I really DON'T Know" what I'm talking about when it comes to Economics/World Markets etc...
And by the way, That's my favorite hat

-- September 17, 2006 6:41 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Roger - Doh! Everyone knows you put the gas in the tank to make the propellers go around.

It's the exhaust fumes that makes it go forwards!

The wings are just for show and to store the gas. Helicopters don't have wings and they fly.

Don't call me stupit.

-- September 17, 2006 6:50 PM ∞

---

Kristina wrote:

I am sorry for coming into the chat so late however, someone told a very good friend of mine that there was supposed to be an RV of the dinar today (9/17) or tomorrow. The amount she heard was $1.35 IQ/USD. To me, that sounded awfully high however, from what I have gathered on this site is $1.00 USD may not be unheard of. My question (because I do not regularily follow the dinar) is, when is the Dinar expected to be given a value? Does anyone in this world know if it is given a value approximately how much????

-- September 17, 2006 7:30 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

NELLY:
Thanx for the info.
When you break it down like that, it doesn't sound like alot of money, but in today's IRAQ, I bet each citzen would love to $100.00 a month from oil revenue. Just imagine, when they start pumping to their full potential and cut back on corruption. This R.V thing might actually work.

-- September 17, 2006 7:38 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Warka Bank has been off-line for about ten days for maintenance and it's a good sign of the times.
I believe the Banks are working night and day to get their systems linked to the CBI and international network.
Hope they get it finished soon!

COM'ON DINAR!!

http://www.warka-bank.com/maintenance.html

-- September 17, 2006 7:44 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

KRISTINA:
Unfortunately Kristina, most of the RUMORS start just like, "A Friend of Friend Told Me. This or That. The latest buzz is that it will R.V before Ramadon (spelling?), around the 24th. There are alot of rumors buzzing around the "Meeting in Singapore", with the IMF, WORLD BANK ETC... That meeting is taking place on the 17th and 18th.

-- September 17, 2006 9:24 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Nelly B,

When it comes to money, figures, concepts of how economy works, you're good. Your breakdown was very simple and to the point. The oilrevenue will in reality though, not be shared equally in a split between all the Iraq citizens. It will go to the goverment, that have already been dealing with the different groups in Iraq, of who is to split the cake.

Then through a couple of layers of corruption, it will eventually trickle down to the Iraqi man.

I do however have a few reservations regarding your class in aerodynamics.

Mark,

I dont have a clue either, I just fake it, but no one have ever noticed. Just whissle and most important of all.....just look normal.

Kristina,

Welcome to the show, may I ask, you spell Kristina like your're from Scandinavia.

Talar du Svenska?
Snakker du Noske?
Taler du Danske?

Kristina, you might want to do a bit of backreading, you will find a lot of very valuable info on this site, go back a page or two, and you will get right into it.

Okie,

Yes, that is very interesting info. A bank will just not be off line for TEN days. If there is a glitch they will be up and running quicker than that, if they are just restoring an existing system.

Yes I read the same into it as you are doing, they are aligning a new, or redoing a complete sytem right now. The coincident in time with all the other dates all seem to line up.

On top of it all, Jupiter aligns with Mars, so somethings got to give.

-- September 17, 2006 9:45 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

This Pope sure is lame. He quotes someone, in a speech, who says, some Islamic beliefs are barbaric. Then, Muslims get all barbaric and upset over his remarks. Then the Pope verbally kisses the rear end of every Mullah in the world.

No wonder Muslims think Christians, especially European ones, are weak pathetic wusses. No wonder they are planning on taking over Europe. No wonder they will succeed. One of the top Christian religious leaders can be bent to their will. Not a good sign.

The truth is, a lot of Islamic beliefs are, in fact barbaric. For instance, it says in the Koran, Muslims are supposed to dominate their societies, and Christians and Jews are supposed to pay a head tax, in order to be allowed to live.

I'm embarrassed to be a white Christian. We are so weak.

-- September 17, 2006 11:55 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Tim,

Where does it say in the Koran that Muslins must dominate their societies?.

I have been reading up on Muslins and I am aware that they think that they are taught that their prophet replaces Christianity and Jewish faith scriptures.

However, when asked to show where the Koran in fact states that the Koran replaces or supercedes the Jewish and Christian scriptures?. The Muslins I have read about are unable to provide this proof.

In fact, in one article I read about a Muslin journalist, who became a Christian due to researching this teaching on Muslim domination of other faiths!.

This journalist checked with Islamic theologicians and found that in fact, their Koran never taught that the Koran supercedes Jewish or Christian Scriptures.

Soooo-- Tim Bitts, do not be ashamed or embarrassed to be a white Christian. We are not weak. We are instructed to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. I think the Pope is following this teaching.

I sent the above article citation to Sara from this forum. I have not heard back from her on it.

I'll need to find it and share it with you Tim Bitts. Do you have an e-mail?.

Laura

-- September 18, 2006 1:46 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Oh and Tim,

I think the Pope was trying to get Muslims to admit that violence is not holy and is not from God.

I believe the Pope was trying to reason with Muslims to speak out about their faith in discussion about where this violence is coming from (the heart). Is hatred holy? And, is it Islamic?

I believe, the Pope is questioning the consequences of what the Muslims are calling holy war.

I hope this helps--Tim.

Laura

-- September 18, 2006 2:09 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

I agree with Tim.... If the Pope was man enough to make the statement... then he should be man enough to stand behind it! He does look weak.

Outlaw

-- September 18, 2006 2:18 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Whataya all doing up this late? Your not sitting up waiting to see the postings of some kind of reslults are ya?

-- September 18, 2006 2:59 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

We have to know the reslults.

-- September 18, 2006 3:00 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

I've got a couple of reslults for sale

-- September 18, 2006 3:01 AM ∞

---

c1jim wrote:

What time do the results come out?

-- September 18, 2006 4:44 AM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

What does the note at the bottom of this mean?

Announcement No.(769)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 769 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Sunday 2006 / 9/ 17 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 13 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1474 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ----- -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 75.990.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) -----
Total offers for buying (US $) 75.990.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ----- -----

Cash amounts sold to the bank and its customers were USD(38.640.000) at a rate of(1474+1+10=1485)IQD\USD .
The amount sold to make transfers abroad was USD (37.350.000) at a rate of (1474-2)+ one dinar as a bank fee and exempt the transferred amount from conversion fee.

D.G. of Investments

Daily price Bulletin buying and selling Sunday 2006/9/17

Currency
Currency Code
Selling Price In IQD
Buying Price In IQD

US Dollar
USD
1475.000
1474.263

European Euro
EUR
1865.580
1864.647

Sterling Pound
GBP
2770.493
2769.107

Canadian Dollar
CAD
1317.906
1317.247

Swiss Frank
CHF
1172.496
1171.910

Sweetish Krone
SEK
202.554
202.453

Norwegian Krone
NOK
225.639
225.526

Denmark Krone
DKK
250.081
249.955

Japanese Yen
JPY
12.530
12.523

The above price represent reference rate and does not from any commitment on the Central Bank of Iraq.

Note: The prices of the bulletin issued on Sunday will adopted for Monday also due to the weekend in New York .

-- September 18, 2006 5:11 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Outlaw,

Is the Pope's standing up the way you mean, worth the cost of lives against Christians?.

That is what it means. In my opinion, the Pope is looking for a way to have peaceful conversation with the people and clerics of Islam.

Backing down as you say, does not represent weakness.

However, I was listening to Fox News this am and something said on the section called "The Costs of Terror" upset me. The commentators (guests if you will) said, "What's the problem with the sectarian was?. Shiiti's killing Sunni and Sunni killing Shiiti's. Let them kill each other." The other commentator stated, "I see no problem with that."

They spoke about the market not being affected by the war, after all oil a barrel has gone down in price.

--Now, I see a disclaimer from Fox News about what the guests are saying. One of these guy's is Mr. Hershey. The other one did not have his name.

I hope we did not fight a war--to not care about the people--this war has affected in Iraq.

Laura

-- September 18, 2006 6:02 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

No RV either on the 17th or 18th of September? Huh. Not surprising. Do not count on an RV before, during, or after Ramadan. Finally, do not look for an RV in 2006. Your going to have to hang on to your Dinar a little longer maybe 2008.

Market conditions in Iraq are non-existant. Little oil production contributes the country lacking both a GDP and GNP. It seems a little premature to speak about an RV when there is nothing to base an RV upon (no oil, no economy to speak of, continued secterian violence). I hope I am wrong.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 10:57 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I am optimistic, but have advocated caution, I don't think I'm that down on the scale, that 2008 is real.

It might happen then, but it might as well happen tomorrow.

The donor conference, and the World Bank meeting in Singapore is not concluded, it's going on right now.

Just ease up, and let the effects of all those happenings, take place.

-- September 18, 2006 12:06 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Laura Parker, your views are charming. I hope I am wrong, but I think your views are naive. Are you a Christian? Then you are not a friend of Islam. They do not want to be your friend. In fact, true believers in Islam want to kill you. Let the Koran speak on this:

4:89 "They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be all alike; therefore take not among them friends until they fly, (their homes) in Allah's way; but it they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not among them a friend"

Laura, you might want to pick up a copy of The Force of Reason, by Oriana Fallaci, the great Italian journalist who just died, yesterday I think. She wrote extensively about the dark side of Islam.

As to Islam taking over Europe, that's a given already. No turning back now. The birthrate among white Christian or post-Christian European women is so low, and the age of the average European woman is so advanced, and the age of Muslim women and the rate at which they breed is so high, that it is mathematically impossible for Islam NOT to become the dominant religion of Europe some time this century. Europe is undergoing its greatest population collapse ever, in its history, at least for the white population. The fall in the birthrate of white European Christians is steeper than the fall during the Black Death, or Black Plague, which killed over a third of Europe. It took several centuries to recover. No society in history has ever recovered from such a fall, as is going on now.

The exception of course, is Islam. It is the fastest growing religion in Europe, by conversion, and demographic expansion. If you ever go to Europe, take a peek in at a maternity ward on any hospital in the continent. You will notice immediately that most of the babies are brown. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just stating a fact. I have friends who are doctors in Belgium and Holland. The top names for babies in those countries? Osama and Mohammed. What do you think that means for Europe's future?

As to Muslims dominating, first of all they will be a majority in Europe very soon. White people, especially Christians, will be a small minority. European civilization, as we have know it, that brought the Enlightenment, science, and pretty much the whole modern world into being, is dying, very quickly. The Christian era in Europe is finished. You can't have a European civilization without Europeans. You can't have a Christian Europe without Christians. That seems obvious. The Muslim era begins. But beyond that, Muslim leaders across Europe have consistently said they want to dominate Europe.

The only exception to the collapse of European-type civilizations is the United States, where the fertility rate is near replacement. It is also, not coincidentally, the most Christian European society. All other European rooted socities, including my own, Canada, are dying. Our main governmental collector of statistics, Statistics Canada, did an analysis last year of demographic and fertility and immigration trends last year. The number one source of immigrants for Canada are Muslim countries. Some time, toward the end of this century, Canada too will be Muslim.

The Pope, with his weak statements, kissing Mullah's rears, is just another sign of the caving of Europe on it's beliefs. For instance, this year is a transition year in Britain. Britain has more or less given up on Christianity. Only five percent of Brits go to a Christian church each week. This year, for the first time, the Muslim population is growing so fast there, that, for the first time, more people will go to mosques in England, each week, than Christian Churches.

You might want to look up Mark Steyn, who has a website. He is a brilliant writer who writes a lot about this.

The history of Islam is also instructive here. More or less since it's inception, Islam has been at war with Christianity. It's not at all taught in school, but the only time Europeans were able to slow down the consistent onslaught over many centuries against their societies and religion was since they started developing science and technology and superior weapons. Right now, Europeans have a big advantage technologically. The problem is, they don't believe in anything anymore. Certainly not the faith that founded their culture. I believe nature abhors a vacuum, especially a religious one. Humans are meant to worship their creator. We are genetically wired that way. Having rejected Christianity, I believe Europeans will quickly fill the void with Islam.

My own guess is that science and technology are not the determining factors as to which culture dominates in the end. I think belief is. Islam has men who will willingly fly an airplane into a building and die for their beliefs. You will find no such Christian men today. The top Christian leader, the Pope, just kissed their rear ends the other day. Not a good sign.

That's why I think, in the long run, Islam will win.

I prefer to post things on this forums rather than a one on one exchange. It lets other people comment.

Anyway, thanks very much for your kind thoughts. I encourage you to read the Koran and about the Koran and about Muslim history and beliefs so you can find out for yourself what to believe. Just make sure you look for both sides of every story. Thanks very much. Take care.

-- September 18, 2006 12:08 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Laura:

I am sorry but in my view the Pope is a "LEADER" and leaders should never reverse positions just because of opinion. How do you think it would look if the Iranians told Bush that they would attack the U.S. if he didn't back down on the Nuclear thing and Bush said "OK" you win???

No matter, I think he is going to lose no matter which way he goes here... it's better to stay the course than to turn around.

Outlaw

-- September 18, 2006 12:37 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Very interesting posting of yours, thanks.

In itself, being white and Christian, defending it like it is THE way, is beyond me.

As far as I'm concerned, if anyone is a Muslim, let him be a Muslim.

If anyone is a Hindu, or Muslim and he or she is stopping the progress of mankind, I'm opposed to it.

The origin of the western civilization, with the technological and science it brought forward, happened to be, by circumstance in the white Christian civilization.

The knowledge of Newton, Einstein, Goethe, and all the other heavyweights we are basing our culture upon, is more an ability to comprehend the nature of things, rather than belief. That did propel our part of the world to where we are today.

In evolution, we were in par with Islam until the end of the middle ages.

So they believed, we believed, and we were no better or worse then them.

The fear you are displaying, the "take over" , is exactly the same fear they are going through right now.

The Muslim world have culturally been living a tribes culture until historic recent times, and our western culture, with its innovations have largely gone them by.

In historic very short time, that culture have been completely overwhelmed with TV,s cellphones, SUV's, laptops, and all the goodies from a far mysterious, and infidel world.

The very hard core Muslims see this as a very big threat to thir way of life, and the terrorist Jihadist, you see today, is basically a resitance to change. They are on a loosing streak, because eventually, and this is going very fast in the Muslim countries, they love their laptops, love to chat in chatrooms, love their SUV's and are TV junkies as any one else in the world.

If a Muslim goes to his mosqe in Belgium, well good for him, he will afterwards, go to the gas station and fill up, have a snack in McDonalds, and see a movie in the cinema with the rest of us.

I really dont give a rats ass if he is white, brown or black. If he wants to be a Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Bahai, thats his choice.

If white Christians, really dont go to church, it's the Christianities problem with the white population. That is not a Muslim problem.

-- September 18, 2006 12:39 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

However, when it comes to the Pope, yes he was acting spineless.

Pope:-"Muslims are using force, trying to spread their religion"

Muslim reaction:-"If you say we are intolerant, and are using force, we dont like that, either you apologize or we will kill a coupole of nuns"

Pope:-"Uh, sorry"

-- September 18, 2006 12:45 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Laura,

I do understand your feelings about the people of Iraq. One must remember that they have been fighting each other for thousands of years... Not just the last five.

I pray that the people of Iraq can see where their actions are taking them.

Regards,
Outlaw

-- September 18, 2006 2:38 PM ∞

---

smooter wrote:

Hello,

I just noticed Safedinar is now out of 10k notes of NID. They have been out of 1k and 5k notes for about two weeks.
The supply of notes seems to be drying up.

-- September 18, 2006 3:20 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

"All:

No RV either on the 17th or 18th of September? Huh. Not surprising. Do not count on an RV before, during, or after Ramadan. Finally, do not look for an RV in 2006. Your going to have to hang on to your Dinar a little longer maybe 2008.

Market conditions in Iraq are non-existant. Little oil production contributes the country lacking both a GDP and GNP. It seems a little premature to speak about an RV when there is nothing to base an RV upon (no oil, no economy to speak of, continued secterian violence). I hope I am wrong.

Thanks,

Rob N."

==========================================================================================================================

Gotta say that if it doesn't happen unitl 2008, I won't cry. No capital gains that year, so no decision on wether to cash out or hold for better tax conditions.......

I get a kick out of that InvestorsIraq site. People running around over there with their heads in the clouds. It's cool to dream, hell I do it on a regular basis.

It seems though that most don't have their feet firmly rooted to the ground. A lot of offended people over there because the rumor didn't pan out. Geez, they act like it's a Merril Lynch Q&A website and they got some bad advice...........

Anyone can come along and pass out a rumor. No way is anyone going to know the rate or the value of the RV if and when it does happen. Seems there is always one person who thinks they can lead the lamb away from the slaughterhouse..........

In short, I am glad to be here and posting, none of that silly crap going on here. Sure we all have our own views on the matter, but in the end most all of us know this is a high risk/ long term venture and act accordingly.

So I'll close by saying:

I HAVE INSIDE INFO THAT THE RV IS GOING TO OCCUR ON............AND ITS GOING TO BE VALUED AT...........

Damm sorry, my number keys don't seems to be working. I'll get back to you on this........
Keep your heads up, good things will happen................

-- September 18, 2006 3:35 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Interesting post, Tim.

I remember an off-the-cuff remark by a Muslim in London, following the 2005 bombings of the London underground and buses... "Not all Muslims are terrorists... only about 1% of all Muslims are terrorists." or something very similar to that effect.

To say the least, that was a little disconcerting, as there were/are around 2 million Muslims in Britain at the time, equating to 20,000 terrorists!

What I can't understand for the life of me is that Muslims in England, even 2nd or 3rd generation Britain's, put their religion and culture before that of their host country. Why the heck do they come here if they don't want to live among us? because we offer a safe, secure haven, free healthcare, housing and a higher quality of life than their homeland? Some integrate with other cultures, but many do not. I was reading a story recently when a very busy road in Leicester (where there are large Muslim populations) is closed to traffic, for a Muslim religious ceremony. No such closures happen for any Christian ceremonies, simply because there is not the demand for it. Unless things change in a big way e.g. the British National Party take power (yeah, like that would happen!) this county might as well pack its bags and swap territories with the immigrants.

It is not just the Pope that is weak and spineless (and he probably had good reason to fear for reprisals) our government is a total joke when it comes to immigration controls. You may remember that it was recently revealed that the very government department that handles immigration applications had illegal foreign workers cleaning their offices! And what's worse, they probably still do. A few years back, there were some terrorists that hijacked a plane and landed at a London airport. Did they get shot? No. Did they get arrested and deported? No. They successfully claimed asylum! This country has gone to the dogs and I don't think it will ever be an 'England' that I will recognise again.

The Muslims (of foreign origin) are taking over and our government is handing it to them on a plate.

I don't believe it is our cars, microwaves, cable tv, laptops or cell-phones that threatens the Muslim extremists, it is the people who make them and buy them and I don't mean the Chinese or Western Muslims.

As many may already know, I am non-relious and feel like a by-stander when conflict and wars happen for relious reasons. I honestly wish ALL religion was abolished so that we can all be the same and get along in peace. It's not religon in itself that I have a problem with (though I don't agree with it), it's the consequences of the conflicts between the relious groups that is so abhorent.

-- September 18, 2006 4:07 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

*Religion*

Doh! I'll sack my proof reader.

-- September 18, 2006 4:08 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

You asked me to ease up, why? I would rather venture on the side of caution then propogate an unsubstantiated rumor.

Regarding an RV of $1.00. I just do not see this as realisitc. I do see this as a viable exchange rate but not as an introductory offering. Once oil is pumping and market conditions marked by Iraqi consumer confidence have been established then I can see the possibility of the currency rising to $1.00.

I tend to think I have enough time to accumilate the amount of Dinar I have set as a goal.

Smooter:

Go beyond safedinar.com The market place is full of dealers with access to the smaller denominations. You can get the smaller denominations on ebay, but be careful who you do business with. I do not think any of the Dinar notes are drying up.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 5:45 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From http://www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq to hike oil output to four million bpd -- official September 14, 2006 - Iraq is seeking to hike its oil productivity to more than four million barrels per day by 2010, Iraqi Oil Minister Hussein Al-Sharastani said on Thursday.
In an interview with KUNA on sidelines of the international energy seminar, that concluded late on Wednesday, the minister added that Iraq also aspires to be among the top oil producers and seeks to hike the crude output to six million bpd, following development of oil fields, exploring new ones, upgrading the oil sector and building new refineries.
Iraq has the second largest strategic reserve of the oil and gas in the world in general and the Middle East in particular.
But Sharastani acknowledged that continuing violence and extensive damage, inflicted in this vital sector, as a result of a series of war and failure to upgrade the installations constitute some of the major hurdles in the face of schemes to expand and enhance this sector

The following is not part of the above article, this is my opinion: Even 2008 may be to optimistic for a revaluation of the Dinar.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 6:09 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here is another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Jordan expected to sign free trade agreement with Iraq September 17, 2006 - Jordan and Iraq are in the final stages of discussions over the signing of a free trade agreement, a senior official confirmed on Saturday.
Minister of Industry and Trade Sharif Zu'bi told The Jordan Times that the committees from both countries will meet in Amman shortly to finalise aspects of the agreement, which is aimed at boosting bilateral trade and cooperation.
According to the minister, the trade volume between the two neighbouring countries in 2005 stood at $750 million.
Jordan exports consist of various items of foodstuff, pharmaceutical products, drugs, medical equipment, steel, cement and construction-related materials.
The minister made the remarks following a meeting yesterday with Iraqi Minister of Industry Fawzi Hariri, where he called on Iraq to facilitate the entry of Jordanian engineering and contracting companies to assist with rebuilding efforts.
During the meeting, Zu'bi stressed Jordan's readiness to assist Iraq in efforts to boost its economy, including the creation of qualifying industrial zones and other industry-related ventures.
The minister announced yesterday that work is currently under way to create four new qualifying industrial zones in Jordan at a cost of $80 million.
Iraq struck a deal in mid-August with Jordan to provide 10-30 per cent of the Kingdom's daily oil needs of around 100,000 barrels at preferential rates.
Part of the deal will eventually involve laying a new pipeline across the desert between the two neighbours.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 6:11 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Australian oil companies invited to invest in Iraq September 17, 2006 - Iraq's Oil Minister will pay a visit to Australia next week to meet officials and oil companies, according to a ministry spokesman, Easy Bourse reported.
The spokesman said that the minister will invite Australian oil companies to invest in the Iraqi oil and gas sector.
The minister hadn't started discussions with oil companies on new contracts yet, although investors are already willing to begin discussions now, prior to the acceptance of the new hydrocarbon law which is expected to be passed by the end of this year.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 6:13 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Another from www.iraqieconomy.org

Power generation investments wasted, says official September 17, 2006 - As power shortages worsen with the national grid hardly operational, a senior electricity official says investments made so far were useless.
Aziz al-Rubai, a head engineer at the Ministry of Electricity, said the huge sums the country spent on constructing and rehabilitating fuel oil-driven plants have almost come to nothing.
He did not say how much Iraq had invested in the electricity sector since the U.S. invasion, but experts estimate the figure at nearly 1 billion dollars.
“The kind of power plants constructed in Baghdad and other provinces are ineffective because they run on fuel oil,” he said.
He said instead of alleviating the shortages, “these plants have aggravated them.”
“Huge amounts of money have been spent on their construction and still they are of little or no benefit,” he added.
He said the only solution to Iraq’s power shortages lied in the construction of what he described as “gigantic thermal plants” which have the capacity to generate a lot of electricity.
Despite massive investments, the authorities have failed to produce as much power as during the last months before the fall of former President Saddam Hussein.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 6:14 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Finally, from www.iraqieconomy.org

Southern province reaps bumper harvest September 11, 2006 - The southern province of Wasit has shipped more than 110,000 tons of wheat and nearly 900,000 tons of barley to state silos this year, the province’s agriculture official said.
Salam Iskandar said this year’s yield of 200,000 tons of both barely land wheat is record in the province’s history.
It is nearly four times higher than last year yields of 48,000 tons, he said.
Wasit of which the city of Kut, 160 kilometers south of Baghdad, lies in a fertile cereal grain-growing region.
It and the northern province of Nineveh, of which Mosul is the capital, were called ‘Iraq’s bread basket’ for their high grain yields.
In the 1940s and 1950s Iraq had a surplus of both wheat and barley.
But in the past few decades its turned into a major consumer with wheat imports costing the treasury hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Iraq’s wheat needs are estimated at about 4 million tons a year and the country hardly produces 1 million.
The spectacular surge in wheat produce this year, according to Iskander, is due to the use of better seeds, fertilizers and “good incentives.”
He said the government pays 450,000 dinars (approx. $300) for each ton of wheat farmers ship to its silos.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 18, 2006 6:16 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I'm a confirmed "dinarholic" and about half of my Dinars are in Warka Bank and recently in their ISX. I have 12 stocks and 8 of them are Banks. I believe the Banks will lead the way when their market really takes off.

Iraq is a good investment just for their water and the quest for freedom by the people. You should remember that Iraq was a wealthy nation even before oil was discovered.

I don't have a clue as to when the Dinar will RV but I believe it will be sooner than later. I define sooner as weeks and not years.
==================================================================================================

Finance & Banking

Iraqi Banks hold meetings in Arbil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18 September 2006 (Al-Sabaah)
A lot of members of administrative boards of the banks and companies taking part in these meetings are living outside Iraq ; thus they would be unable to participate in these meetings in case they were held in Baghdad.

An Iraqi investment pointed out that the International Investment Bank in Basrah along with Al-Khaleej and Sumar banks are preparing to hold their meetings in Arbil but this procedure will not provide much information for the stockholders in these banks and companies about the meetings or what will be discussed in them concerning the present and future of their banks. How ever, another source who refused to reveal his name confirmed that the disturbing security situation in Baghdad justifies this exceptional step.

The indexes of the Iraqi stocks market sessions are pointing out for a high rise in circulated stocks in the banks sector at the cost of other sectors. The stocks of 10 banks have been circulated in the last session and their prices went high. The most distinguished bank among them was of Basrah which achieved the highest percentage estimated at 50, succeeded by the bank of Baghdad at a percentage of 22.2. The banks sector index closed at 39.752 points at a rise of 3.561%

The bank sector shares exceeded 400 million stock of the circulated stocks (79.7% of the overall stocks circulated in the session, at a value exceeded 79.8% of the overall mass of circulation).(Source)AlSabah

-- September 18, 2006 6:58 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Nelly B. Thanks for the reply.

I read a statistic that only 10% of Muslims support terrorism. 90% don't. What is terrorism? The mass, random killing of innocent civilians, based on their religious identity, or lack of. The thing is, there are about a billion Muslims in the world. That means, even if 900 million don't want trouble, that still leaves 100 million who want us dead. And by us, I mean, non-Muslims. Your lack of religosity won't protect you. A lot of people who want me dead. What was it? Nineteen highjackers brought down the World Trade Centre? The thing about terrorism is it's random, and asymetrical. That is, a few people can do a lot of harm, in an open society. My fear is they will eventually get nukes. If that happens, and they use them against the West, the real fun begins.

I blame Multiculturalism for the coming collapse of Europe. Deluded liberals in the West bought into the notion that all people, all religions, that are non-Western, are loving and peaceful. This is a silly belief. The problem with multi-culturalism is it is the whites and the Christians who invented the concept and are the ones who are supposed to be tolerant. Most Muslims do not buy into the concept. As Osama bin Laden said today, in reference to the Pope's remarks, he considers his terrorism to be a holy war against the West, to be waged until Islam dominates all societies. Once Islam controls Europe, that goal will be a lot easier to attain, down the road in a hundred years. Multi-culturalism would be great, if Muslims bought into it, but they don't. The leading voices of Islam want to take over the world. Period. It's that simple. That's the larger narrative for the thing we are investing in. What we are really investing in is history. Each of us who bought dinars, consciously or not, gambled that history, in that corner of the world, anyway, was going to go in a certain direction.

Getting back to what we were discussing. Multi-culturalism only works if everyone buys into it, if everyone believes all cultures are morally equal and worthy of respect, and no real and ultimate truth exists. This sort of philosophical delusion only exists in present day Europe. Muslims certainly don't buy into it.

Muslim integration into Europe wouldn't be a problem if Muslims had a deep philosophical attachment to tolerance, and strongly shared attachment to their new countries, and it's values, but they don't. The root problem is Europeans don't have much confidence in their own cultures. If they had confidence, they would demand intellectual integration. Europeans don't even think of themselves as having a culture worth preserving, for the most part. Having lost their own religious beliefs, European identity revolves around a soft and fuzzy left-wing identity, relying on the state to look after you your whole life, anti-American hatred, and a naive and warm feeling toward any culture that is not your own. And tolerance nowadays is defined as one-way. Christians and whites have to be tolerant, not Muslims.

I believe this is all a failure of Europe's elite. After the Great War, and the Second World War, which left over 50 million dead, Europe entered a period of deep cultural self-hatred. The general intellectual tone of the last fifty years, can be summed up as, it's all whitey's fault, especially if he is Christian. Every ailment can be traced back to that. Having educated most of university educated people in self-hatred, and having as a result lost their religious and cultural faith, Europe finds itself spineless and in demographic freefall. I wish I could be more optimistic, but I'm not.

It's no wonder many Muslims don't want to integrate into a culture that hates itself. They'll take our welfare, and our jobs, and our technology, and medical care, and pensions, but our culture? We don't even believe in our own culture and the future to have babies. As the previous Pope said, we Europeans live in a culture of death. No thanks.

I know enough about Islam to say, the transition to a Muslim continent won't be pretty. Women's rights, gay rights, and general intellectual freedom will suffer a severe setback. Muslim cultures are not exactly intellectually vibrant. I read one report, from the UN, that said, in the past 1000 years, only ten thousand books were translated into Arabic, a language spoken by hundreds of millions. For a brief period about 1500 years ago, Islam was open minded, tolerant, and intellectually vibrant. Now, despite the romanticizing of Islam by European intellectuals, the truth is it is an intolerant, intellectually barren faith, without a whole lot of imagination or curiosity. Each and every year, more than 10,000 books are translated into Spanish alone. I expect some time in the future, "white flight" to start, as people with money get fed up, with the new Europe, and start to leave. You might recall, the Jews of France are starting to leave, as they get harrassed by Muslims.

Historically, Jews are the canaries in the mineshaft. In twenty or thirty years, white Christians, and non-religious Europeans will be the new Jews of Europe, and be heading out the door.

Couple the weak European identity with often rejecting attitudes by Europeans, and many young Muslims reject the pathetic European identity. That's why so many young Muslims reject integration, as you noted. We don't have much that is real to offer them. And by real I mean things that people can believe in, not material things. Islam, by contrast, offers them real purpose and moral identity and pride.

I don't share your optimism about getting rid of religion as an answer to bringing in world peace. That's a 1960s notion that has been fully discredited. Have a look in the Guiness Book of World Records sometime. The top three societies, in history, for mass murder and genocide, were all societies that rejected religious authority. The top prize, or gold medal goes to Communist China. Communism of course, explicitly tried to stamp out religion. Karl Marx believed as you did, that religion was the problem. The Silver Medal goes to the Soviet Union. More of the same. And the Bronze Medal goes to Nazi Germany. Strip away religion and you still have the root problem: human nature. That doesn't go away.

On the dinar, I am quite optimistic. I think this war in Iraq is not something the Americans can afford to lose. I think brighter Americans know the stakes are very very high, and should Islamic fundementalists win, and drive the Americans out, it will be very very bad for the West, including Europe. If Iraq, with it's 1000 billion in oil reserves gets in the hands of terrorists, or Islamic fundementalists in Tehran, who fund terrorists, this will be very bad for the whole world, in countless ways.

I think America will win because, they absolutely must. There is no choice. The consequences of losing are horrific, in terms of global geo-politics and long term American interests.

That makes me optimistic things will turn out well for the dinar, and investors on this blog. I read the other day that 54% of Americans, despite the daily doses of nothing but bad news, still believe some sort of functioning democracy will emerge by the time the Americans leave. That will be good for the dinar, and us. Also, the cost of the war is huge. It works out to $2,500.00 per U.S. family. If the Americans lose after all that time and energy, it will be very bad for the future of America being the global leader. They can't afford to let crazy fanatics beat them. This, again, makes me optimistic the war will eventually work, and we will all make a lot of money.

Of course, what this all really means, is I am betting on America. I believe in the inherent goodness and decency of America. I believe America is a special country in history, unlike any other. Not only the strongest militarily and economically in history, but also the only superpower that is basically driven by what it perceives to be right and good. I think the war in Iraq is what St. Augustine would call a Just War, and I hope the Americans win it.

If America wins, we all win.

And that will be, pretty sweet.

-- September 18, 2006 9:56 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I say also caution,but have more of an optimistic view, and oh, please do not asocciate me with any statement that makes it look like I think it WILL be a reval to one Dollar.

I have proposed that because of Iraqs unique minimal export, they CAN do a high reval.

There have to my knowledge NO hard fact statement saying a reval WILL be done.

As Dinaroholics, our creative and inquisitive minds , only second to Sherlock himself, will follow the clues layed out.

Sherlock got the butler, with a logic that still today amazes the readers.

When will we get the Dinars in the RV act?

The clues are piling up, and from a more pessimistic viewpoint one might see another picture.

As a case, no one can argue with the particulars.

Low oilproduction, insuregncy, bombs, corruption and a long line of other MSM goodies.

As cause and effect, I think that is to assign too much value to the effect phenomenon.

It can't happen because of ....

From a more survival, optimistic viewpoint I tend though to se more on the cause than the effect side of things.

The plain truth fact is, that any situation can be an effect that is in one aspect or the other undesirable.

So far I have not seen statments coming from either the Iraqi goverment, or the US administration saying that:
We will give up.
We will run.
We can't do anything about this.
The situation is not under our control.
There is nothing that can be done about it.

Instead, despite, any difficulties, the development of Iraq will not stop.

It is CAUSED, it is put in motion, someone is pushing the cart, someone is saying, we are going to...

Jut to step back and take a very broad picture..

Neighbouring countries producing oil, are they wealthy nations? Very wealthy.

Iraq have humongous oil reserves, that is known.

Will Iraq continue to be a poor conflict ridden nation?
Hardly, a wealthy nation is a happy nation.

So I think we all agree on this point, Iraq have a splendid future.

Where our views differ is in the progrss of the development, the timeframe when things will start to break loose.

Admittedly, Iraq have been in the aftermath of the invasion, been handled more in a very incompetent way, by administrators that in some cases could be more or less asocciated with clowns.

Iraq, on top of it all have to go through all the birthpains the eastern block had to go through after the fall of the Iron Curtain. Remember Iraq was set up by Saddam in the likes of Stalinist era Communism, with Saddam as Stalin.

It's not just another Kuwait, where everything was more or less a matter of turning back the switches to make it be up and running again.

So true, the difficulties have really tested our patience, but knowing things are DONE, some in the open, some in the dark, and all for the common goal of getting this country up and running, we sometimes have to do what mr Sherlock are doing.

Line up the clues, see what they mean, see if they have any significance, or just another piece of static.

From all the endless debating,news clip, info, and kicking the dirt pile back and forth, pictures start to emerge, things that after analysis by you and me, starts to clear up, why something would not work why something would make sense.

The impatience have reached more people than us at this blogsite, and is in itself in a bad situation a very good sign.

There is a higher DEMAND to get things going now.

In this new era of Iraq's development I can see a lot of buzz. The tone has sharpened, demands to hurry up projects have reached the Iraq Goverment, deadlines are starting to be important, and criterias have to be met.

The tone have changed from, "we will se how it goes", to "This has to be done before midnight".

Things never stay the same, its , put up or shut up time, in Iraq.

Knowing the simple strategy of getting the oil pumping quicker than quick, to jump start the Iraq economy, knowing the foreign investment law is urgently dealt with in Iraq.

Knowing that a reval from a finacial stand point HAVE to happen before the "Big Guys" are moving in, in order to not sell out the country for free.

That alone is enough to say that it's not a year 2008 proposition.

Add on all the other buzz, The Singapore World Bank meeting, Donor conferance, impossible to get Dinars for Dollar from the Iraqis exchange dealers, Warka realigning their computer system, Kofi Annan claims a suprise, dealer here can't get lower denominations, Banks here in the US are starting to deal in a currency that is not even traded on the market yet.

I'm sure a few of you can come up with a few more clues.

All this tells me something.

The world is not sitting still in a deadlock, waiting for things to develop. Things are developed because they are put in motion, caused.

Iraq is moving forward , and if that can't be observed, well I can't help you.

You can say you are a pessimist , and a realist, but I sure dont share that reality.

-- September 18, 2006 11:59 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, no, I really don't think it is about being white, as "the way". Being white or referring to whites is a kind of shorthand. Everything that I like, or admire: tolerance of other ideas and faiths, open-mindedness to other cultures, creativity, human rights, democracy, science, economic vibrance, intellectual curiosity, all these things happen to be have been in greater abundance in European countries, than in Muslim ones, for several hundred years. The things I dislike the most: intolerance, lack of curiosity, economic backwardness, abusive governments, lack of personal freedom, closemindedness, lack of intellectual stimulation and creativity, all these things I dislike have been in all too plentiful abundance in Muslim countries for a long time. This seems obvious to me.

For me, it's not about race. I have many friends of different backgrounds. For me, it's about culture, and religion. Lots of things about Muslim cultures I intensely dislike. I don't like everything about European, either, but I do think Europeans have made great contributions to the world. I also think all cultures are not equal, and that European Christian based cultures are superior to Muslim ones. I'm definitely not a cultural relativist.

As to your comments on science and technology, Rodney Stark makes a pretty good case in The Victory of Reason, and other of his books, that Christianity led to more personal freedom of all kinds, as well as science, capitalism, and Western Success. For example, the abolition of slavery was conducted by Christians. What will happen when the religion that gave birth to a culture that produced the modern world disapears from Europe, and is replaced by an intellectually backward upstart? I don't know, but I don't think it will be good.

As to "whites" not going to church just being a white problem, no, I don't think so. Again, it's not about race. It's about culture and religion. I think Christianity has been the basis of our culture, and everything we have and take for granted, and when the world changes, and Muslims take over Europe, and Christianity disappears, or fades into insignificance, there will be big changes. I'm guessing it will not be good. Historically, cultures do not usually die off without a fight.

Yes, my remarks are based on fear. Not all fear is bad. There is a bear loose in a park nearby, where I hike nowadays. I fear the bear, because I am not a total idiot. Fear is not bad. It is nature's way of keeping us alive. I do think we have plenty to be afraid of. History certainly teaches us that about Islam, if we read it.

Roger, you talk about change, in your posting. My opinion is, in the end, I think it is the Muslims who have to change, more than us. As you pointed out, they are being overwhelmed by the changes of the modern world. (Created almost entirely by Europeans, with Christian roots, I might add) I think Muslims must accept many things, like democracy, human rights tolerance etc. In other words, all the things I like most about European cultures.

he reason America is having trouble fighting this war, at present, is the simple fact that Arab culture is so bigotted, and narrow minded, and fanatical and lacking in decency. America is quite willing to leave, and hand power over, if the Iraqis would just stop killing each other. The Sunnis and Shiites have been going at each other and abusing each other a very long time, historically, and the Americans are trying to keep them from murdering each other by the tens of thousands, right now. To me, that's what this war is about: Changing Muslim culture to become more like the superior European culture. If they do accept the things that make the world civilized, like openess and tolerance and human rights and democracy, I will join you in not giving a rats ass, as to what color of skin someone has, or what his religion is. However, for now, since 10% of all Muslims at present agree with terrorism, in other words the killing of innocent people because they are of a different faith, I do care very much who is let into European based societies, and am generally suspicious of Muslims, and very much want the Americans to win in Iraq. To ignore the threat of fundementalist Islam is to bury your head in sand. Once Islam, like Christianity, transforms, to become an entirely a personal matter, between man and his God, and not an excuse to run into the World Trade Centre, or to try to get a nuclear bomb to blow up London, or to introduce Sharia Law into Britain, as 60% of Muslims desire, then I will welcome increased, not decreased, Muslim immigration. Till then, forget it.

And I hope the Americans win. This war is about values. It's about, what values will dominate in the future? If the Americans win, and create a functioning democracy in the Middle East, it will be good for the world in many ways. I also think we will make a pile of money, if that's the case. If America loses, it will be very bad for the world, and I've just wasted eight thousand dollars.

-- September 19, 2006 12:05 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Tim Bitts,

I have read your posts and agree with you about the threat of Islam Radicals. That is why the American's are there. We are tired of being targets of radical islamists and we need to put a stop to the senseless killings.

I am a Christian and for this I make no apologies. The Christian faith will survive, if only a remnant. Look at the Assyrian Church--right in the middle of all Islam Central Iraq.

Hope and faith in God is a wonderful place to be in this world. World events have a lot of circumstances to be concerned about... especially with Iran.

We (American's) know that their production of uranium is for bombs.

President Bush even offered to have the Uranium spun for them for the power plants and the Iranians turned us down.

IAEA, 2003 year, found enriched uranium at one of Irans abandomed sites.

My husband states this is a great indication that bombs are being made that are nuclear.

Roger,

I spoke with my husband on the matter of writing to this forum and he stated you know about as much as he does...the above facts are circulated in the news.

I believe, we are headed for a war with Iran because of radical Islam.

What better place to be than to place one's trust in God.

Who else is going to manage the affairs of man?. Man does not seem to be doing a great job--of loving their fellow man in this crisis.

Does this make me naive, Tim Bitts?. I think it makes me simply human like the rest of us.

We need to pray for President Bush today. He goes to U.N. to present USA case about Iran. And, we need to pray for our nation too.

Laura

-- September 19, 2006 5:41 AM ∞

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carl wrote:

Tim:Just read your post about the muslim world. Looks like you are a good observer of the way things are and not as they should be..
Culture war on going I agee...

-- September 19, 2006 8:25 AM ∞

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carl wrote:

Okie:
I am wanting to purchase some stock through the ISX can you give me some pointers and what are the logical rules to follow when doing business with these guy?

-- September 19, 2006 8:31 AM ∞

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carl wrote:

President Bush:
Must have idiots as handlers...
Why in the world would they allow him to go first in the UN speeches....then allow the Iraqi handlers to come up with a counter attack in their speech a few hours later...
Haven't they fiqured it out that is why the DA gets the last pitch to the jury before they go to deliberation...HE WHO GETS THE LAST WORD HAS THE MOST LASTING EFFECT...

What dumb asses....

-- September 19, 2006 8:42 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This is a good and interesting read. Iraq will go down in history as a milestone for freedom. I agree with our President....this act of freedom will have a huge ripple effect in the Middle East and is well worth our efforts

===================================================================================
Jalal Talabani: Letter to Americans from Iraq
By Jalal Talabani

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

19 September 2006 (KurdishMedia)
Dear Americans: As I am visiting the United States for the second time representing free and democratic Iraq, I felt it my duty to give you an update on what has been achieved in Iraq over the past year and on the challenges that lie ahead.

The first thing I would like to convey is the gratitude of all Iraqis, who are fighting for a democratic government and a civil society, to the Americans. Without your commitment, our struggle against despotism could not have made the progress that we have achieved. No expression of thanks could be enough for those who lost loved ones in Iraq. We feel your pain, we honor your sacrifice and we will never forget you.

To those of you who have family and friends in Iraq today, we say: Your sons and daughters are helping us through a historic transition. We will always remember the enormous sacrifice that America is making for Iraq.

Thanks to the United States, we are transforming Iraq from a country that was ruled by fear, repression and dictatorship into a country that is ruled by democracy and has the values of equality, tolerance, human rights and the rule of law at its heart.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-19-09-2006&article=10587

-- September 19, 2006 9:02 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Laura, having a loving attitudes and concern toward your fellow humans does not make you naive, as long as you see danger at the same time. And you obviously do. You said you were aware of the threat of Islamic fundementalism, and Iran getting nukes. People like you I don't worry about. It's people who only see the need to be compassionate, without being strong first, that I worry about. They are naive people. I think it was you who referred once to a biblical passage, in the New Testament, asking Christians to be gentle as doves, yet sharp as serpents. That's what I am talking about. Balance.

-- September 19, 2006 11:21 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

So anyone heard any good Dinar RV rumors lately? I heard the Sept 14th one.

-- September 19, 2006 11:27 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

I do not see where Iraq has not made progress. On the contrary, every piece of positive is a move in the right direction. I certianly have posted my share of posts containing good news for the Iraqi people.

Our differences arise from when and how much the Dinar will RV. Frankly, I wish it sooner than later. Because of the way I have interpreted market conditions my reality suggests later rather than sooner. It is my hope I am wrong on this one.

Laura:

You are right, we are headed for a show down with Iran. I envision the United States having a military base established in Iraq. This base will provide us with an efficient means of striking Iran.

If I were the President the following is my list of targets to be hit during an air strike.
1. Tehran University
2. Bunker Busting bombs to hit underground nuclear instillations
3. A lesson from Israel, hit all major roads into Tehran to cut water and food.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 19, 2006 11:32 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Gen. says U.S. may boost troops in Iraq.
By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
14 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The U.S. military will likely maintain or possibly even increase the current force levels of more than 140,000 troops in Iraq through next spring, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East said Tuesday in one of the gloomiest assessments yet of how quickly American forces can be brought home.Gen. John Abizaid, commander of U.S. Central Command, said military leaders would consider adding troops or extending the Iraq deployments of other units if needed. "If it's necessary to do that because the military situation on the ground requires that, we'll do it," he said. "If we have to call in more forces because it's our military judgment that we need more forces, we'll do it."

Abizaid said that right now the current number of troops "are prudent force levels" that are achieving the needed military effect. His comments came as U.S. political leaders continue to face declining public support for the war in Iraq, as they head into the coming congressional elections. Abizaid, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace are expected to meet with members of Congress later this week.

Late last year, military leaders had said they hoped to reduce troop levels to about 100,000 by the end of this year. But Abizaid said Tuesday that the rising sectarian violence and slow progress of the Iraqi government made that impossible. "I think that this level probably will have to be sustained through the spring," he told military reporters. "I think that we'll do whatever we have to do to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan and use the military power of the U.S. to do that." Abizaid cautioned that the solution to much of Iraq's violence — both sectarian and insurgents — is not necessarily "throwing more American units at the problem."

Instead, he said it is vital that the Iraqi government improve the political and economic conditions in the embattled country, as part of an effort to get the "angry young men" off the streets. And he said there will be more emphasis on the U.S. military teams that are training the Iraqi army and police forces.

There are currently 147,000 U.S. forces in Iraq — up more than 20,000 from the troop levels in late June. Rumsfeld extended the one-year deployment of an Alaska-based brigade in July, as part of the effort to stem the escalating violence in Baghdad. Abizaid said Tuesday that there are no plans to further extend the deployment of the Alaska Stryker brigade.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060919/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq

-- September 19, 2006 12:00 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Tim Bitts wrote:

"And I hope the Americans win. This war is about values. It's about, what values will dominate in the future? If the Americans win, and create a functioning democracy in the Middle East, it will be good for the world in many ways. I also think we will make a pile of money, if that's the case. If America loses, it will be very bad for the world, and I've just wasted eight thousand dollars."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I must beg to differ here. The war isn't about values, it's about the gravy train that America has been on for the last 35 or so years. The value of the dollar is threatened, thus we show up in force. Let me make it clear that I do not disagree with the action we have taken in the middle east. As an aside: Yes having Democracy and freedom in the world is a good thing, but at the end of the day it's all about wealth and asset procection. Thats the way capitalism works. The real reason must be brought to light and not ignored.......... The rest is just window dressing and is a convienent way of legitimizing our action to the rest of the world.

The second part of your paragraph captures the underlying reason for all of this nicely.

-- September 19, 2006 12:05 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Passing the baton to support the Iraqi security forces.
Sunday, 17 September 2006
By Gen. George W. Casey, Jr.
Commanding General
Multi-National Force - Iraq

On September 13, the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Task Force Band of Brothers, transferred responsibility to the 25th Infantry Division, Task Force Lightning. The 101st Airborne Division’s list of accomplishments during its tour in Iraq is remarkable and representative of what other Coalition units are achieving alongside their Iraqi partners. Moving forward together, Task Force Band of Brothers and the Iraqi security forces made tremendous strides in securing an area the size of the state of Pennsylvania, transitioning security responsibility to Iraqi control and establishing conditions for Iraqi security self-reliance in the near future.

When the 101st Airborne Division assumed control of Multi-National Division - North, a single Iraqi Army battalion was “in the lead” and the Coalition controlled all territory in the six provinces making up the division’s sector. Over the last year, they transitioned 35 Iraqi Army battalions, nine brigade headquarters and two division headquarters into the lead and returned 25 bases to Iraqi control. The 4th and 5th Iraqi Army Divisions are now responsible for security within their defined battlespace and the 2nd and 3rd Iraqi Army Divisions are progressing to that level as well.

Task Force Band of Brothers brought two strategic infrastructure brigade headquarters and 14 battalions online to secure over 2,800 miles of oil pipeline and over 2,000 miles of major electric lines. They trained more than 32,000 Iraqi Police, renovated almost 100 Police stations, upgraded seven border points of entry and helped construct more than 130 border forts to secure Iraq’s frontier.

The task force secured more than 200 polling sites in December 2005, enabling 1.5 million Iraqi citizens to cast ballots in national elections. Additionally, the task force organized and monitored pesticide spraying of about 98 percent of the date palm trees and 50 percent of the wheat fields in three provinces - helping to put a promising industry back on its feet.

The work of the 101st Airborne Division is representative of transitions taking place all across Iraq. With the support of Coalition forces, Iraqis are in a period of key transitions and taking charge of securing their country. The total number of force-generated, trained and equipped Iraqi security forces surpassed 300,000 this week - 92 percent of the goal.

Two weeks ago, the Iraqi Joint Headquarters assumed operational control over Iraq’s Armed Forces and the Iraqi Ground Forces Command assumed operational control of the 8th Iraqi Army Division headquarters. Later this week, the IGFC will assume operational control of the 4th Iraqi Army Division headquarters. The remaining eight divisions will transfer over the coming months. Iraq always had command of its military forces. Now, Iraqis also exercise the control to plan and direct operations.

Iraqis are also assuming responsibility for provincial security. As both Iraqi government and Coalition officials reach agreement that provincial governments and local Police are capable of leading security operations, provinces will transfer to Iraqi control. In July, Al Muthanna province transferred to Iraqi control. This week, Iraqis will assume responsibility for Dhi Qar province. Several other provinces are soon to follow - nearly half of the country’s 18 provinces will be under Iraqi control by the end of the year.

These achievements are possible through Iltizam Mustarak – United Commitment of Coalition nations pulling together with the Iraqis toward a common goal. In partnership with Coalition units like the 101st Airborne Division, Iraq’s government and security forces will defeat terrorist and insurgent efforts to derail progress. With the steadfast support of the Coalition, Iraq is on a path to national unity, improved security and increased prosperity that will benefit all its citizens.

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5702&Itemid=37&lang=english

-- September 19, 2006 12:23 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Steve wrote:

"I must beg to differ here. The war isn't about values, it's about the gravy train that America has been on for the last 35 or so years. The value of the dollar is threatened, thus we show up in force. Let me make it clear that I do not disagree with the action we have taken in the middle east. As an aside: Yes having Democracy and freedom in the world is a good thing, but at the end of the day it's all about wealth and asset procection. Thats the way capitalism works. The real reason must be brought to light and not ignored.......... The rest is just window dressing and is a convienent way of legitimizing our action to the rest of the world."

=====================================================================================================================

Steve:

So what if it is??? As I understand it, the U.S. only gets 20% of its Oil from the ME. What is wrong with us protecting the World's Oil Markets from radicals? Can you name ONE PERSON who does NOT enjoy the benefits produced by OIL??? Everything you touch, eat, wear, use, consume, is all brought to you by OIL.

Becareful for what you wish for... because... it may come true!

Outlaw

-- September 19, 2006 12:38 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

"Steve:

So what if it is??? As I understand it, the U.S. only gets 20% of its Oil from the ME. What is wrong with us protecting the World's Oil Markets from radicals? Can you name ONE PERSON who does NOT enjoy the benefits produced by OIL??? Everything you touch, eat, wear, use, consume, is all brought to you by OIL.

Becareful for what you wish for... because... it may come true!

Outlaw"

I don't believe I said anything was wrong with it. As a matter of fact, I believe I said:

"Let me make it clear that I do not disagree with the action we have taken in the middle east."

My point was to emphasize that more people need to be made aware of the implications that failing in this endeavour would have for our lifestyle. Many more people would be on board with this if they knew the underlying truth. That was my point, nothing more, nothing less.

As for recieving 20% of our oil from the ME. I would have to do research on this, but that statistic is not relevant to this discussion anyway. I order to understand what "protecting the dollar" means:

1) You must first remember that oil is paid for in dollars.
2) That this creates artifical demand across the globe for USD
3) The demand is what drives the value of the dollar right now
4) Then you must realize that there is no binding agreement that forces any country to continue to do so

Many don't remember exactly what precipitated our actions in Iraq. Saddam didn't commit an act of terror, nor did we suddenly come across irrefutable evidence of WMD. No......... it started after he began to demand Euros for his oil instead of USD. You take it from there........

One must also be aware of the fact that Iran is wanting to start a trade association in the ME that bases oil exchange off of the Euro as well. What do you think the future holds for Iran in that regard? We again have window dressing for that one too, the nuclear issue.

Let me be clear again: I agree that Iran with nukes is UNACCEPTABLE. End of story. But it's an aside to our primary goal of protecting wealth and assests through protecting global dollar demand.

JMO.

-- September 19, 2006 12:52 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Again... So what??? Lets say that you get up in the morning and find that the Dollar lost 80% of its value... Please tell me what you perceive would happen here at home? Would your Boss raise your salary 80% to match the loss?

As far as Saddam... I know for a fact that he had WMD... Just as the Kurds! I think that Bush knew exactly what he had because I think the U.S. gave gave/sold it to him.

Question... Are you in or have you ever been in Iraq? Regardless of the reasons we went into Iraq... After being there and seen the horror that the people of Iraq were being subjected to by Saddam and his sons... I feel that we did the right thing!

Regards,
Outlaw

-- September 19, 2006 1:17 PM ∞

---

Snowballed wrote:

First of all I would like to say that I bought my ticket for this train a very long time ago and paid for it with my sweat and tears in the sandbox. Several of my Buds are still there helping the Iraqi People and I would like to say "HOORAH" to them!

This is the first time I've posted here, but have been reading for years. I'm posting today because I am having some financial difficulty's due to health problem that a family member is going through, sadly causing me to offer some of my Dinar for sale to cover some despertly needed Medical Costs. I really don't want to sell any of it but, it looks like I don't have much choice at the moment.

If anyone is interested, I can be contacted at ibsnowballed@hotmail.com

Heres to hoping that our investment pays off big in the very near future... See ya all at the Pig Roast!

Snowballed

-- September 19, 2006 1:44 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Sorry about the errors in my posts... I'm very tired and my keyboard needs a bath!

Outlaw

-- September 19, 2006 1:54 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Outlaw wrote:

"Again... So what??? Lets say that you get up in the morning and find that the Dollar lost 80% of its value... Please tell me what you perceive would happen here at home? Would your Boss raise your salary 80% to match the loss?

As far as Saddam... I know for a fact that he had WMD... Just as the Kurds! I think that Bush knew exactly what he had because I think the U.S. gave gave/sold it to him.

Question... Are you in or have you ever been in Iraq? Regardless of the reasons we went into Iraq... After being there and seen the horror that the people of Iraq were being subjected to by Saddam and his sons... I feel that we did the right thing!

Regards,
Outlaw"

##################################################################################################################

Before I respond, I want to reiterate that we are on the same page as far as our role in the ME. We both agree that we are doing the right thing. I'm not sure if you are clear on that, so I posted it again to make sure.

Again, my point is that the average American doesn't care about helping the world. They care about making it from paycheck to paycheck. If this conflict is presented in the way I outlined above, we would be more galvanized as a nation. Unity is lacking right now. We need a uniting rallying cry. Believe me, helping Iraqis out is not it........ helping our bottom line is however.

Let me stress this Outlaw: not everyone has had the privelege of travel as you have. You are truly blessed and have additional perspective due to this. You hold yourself to a higher standard and I applaud you for that...... average Americans don't have that perspective however. Hence my argument for conveying the truth. And to answer your question, no I haven't been to Iraq. But I have been to Sudan and other places in need of help. Read about Darfur in your spare time. I am a medical professional, misery and I are old aquaintances.........

Ok, let me choose my words carefully here:

First realize that EVERY country (except MidEast of course) needs to hold some USD due to the current oil purchase arrangement. This is a very important fact. The USD is the worlds reserves currency due in large part to this.

What I would percieve happening here: First of all, less demand for USD will cause the USD to decrease in value which would mean that the dollar buys less. Let that sink in for a sec: It would cost every business and government agency more to buy what it currently does. This will create two primary problems:

1)Costs are passed on to the consumer (ie your buying power goes down drastically)
2)Supply begins to erode (business can't buy as much). With decrease in supply, we get even higher prices which leads to an even bigger nemesis: inflation.

It's true. Think about your standard of living over the past 4-5 years. Has it gotten a bit tighter or better? I can say that mine has gotten tighter, despite the fact I have gotten good pay raises. According to polls, most Americans agree. Costs are up everywhere in every sector. Don't fool yourself into believeing it's not tied to the weakness of the dollar worldwide during this same time period. The two are intimately linked.

Our standard of living is dependent on worldwide dollar demand. Believe me, it will make a big difference in your life. Americas wealthy realize it. What I am saying is that it is time to educate the people who don't deal with these economic principles on a daily basis. They do not understand the tie in between helping Iraqis and helping ourselves.

-- September 19, 2006 2:19 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carl…..regarding your interest in the ISX.

The only way I’ve figured out how to buy stock is thru Warka Bank. First you get an account with them and they will buy the stocks for you and keep them in an escrow account. When it’s legal for them, they will transfer the stock to your name. This part requires patience and Trust.

This link http://www.investorsiraq.com/iraqi-bank-accounts/ has all sorts of info
about opening an account with Warka Bank.

After you have the account funded, e-mail: e-bank@warkainvestmentbank.com
requesting instructions on how to purchase stocks.

You can get stock information from these two sites:

http://www.investorsiraq.com/iraqi-stock-exchange/
http://www.isx-data.com/data/#indices

If all else fails or you hit a roadblock, contact one of these guys:

'Mohammad K. Issa' (ifrd@warkainvestmentbank.com)
Saad Sadoon Al-Bunnia (ceo@warkainvestmentbank.com)

This is the main Warka Bank site: http://www.warka-bank.com/
(It’s currently down for up-grading)

If you need more help just holler real loud and I’ll get back to you.

Good Luck!

-- September 19, 2006 2:29 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Where is Lance? I miss both his singular wit and his chiding.

Roger, you will have to step it up until Lance returns.

Thanks,

Rob N.
Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 19, 2006 4:01 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Lance had a couple of weeks leave to the U.S. If he has any sense (which he certainly seems to) he'll be making the most of his time at home with wifey. Must be hard to be separated for so long.

Hopefully He'll return soon.

-- September 19, 2006 5:02 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Steve: I have a hard time following your argument that the no one knows finances played a part of the deicision to go to war is why you're trying to spread the word. All I ever hear on the news is that oil and money were THE reasons.

To say that this war was all about money is equally as naive as saying that finances had nothing to do with it. The reality is that every reason Bush gave for coming here has been proven though much of it has not been released. Now, that said, we can and will debate the reason for coming here for generations. Some days the information we see here will be declassified and people will find new things to debate. Like, why was all that kept secret? Or Did they ever even know about that or was it really over finances the whole time? Did aliens make George do it? Blah... until the day comes, we can just keep hoping that 1st Cav can do what hasn't been done in the last 3 years - come up with a plan to make our dinar match our dreams. Oh yeah, and behind THOSE finances we can all agree would be a path paved by destroying insurgents, building schools, and helping an entire country create a better life.

I understand Outlaw's quickness to pounce on your comments because anyone who has been here has seen and heard stuff that we don't tell back home. But when people constatly claim that money was our whole or even main reason for coming when many of us have a different perspective...

-- September 19, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Turtle wrote:

"I understand Outlaw's quickness to pounce on your comments because anyone who has been here has seen and heard stuff that we don't tell back home. But when people constatly claim that money was our whole or even main reason for coming when many of us have a different perspective.."

"The reality is that every reason Bush gave for coming here has been proven though much of it has not been released."

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I assume by your comments that you have firsthand knowledge of these things and not assuming them or heard of these things from someone else. Thats good, I can't and won't argue your perspective.

I'll ask you to do one thing though. This might be hard so bear with me......

Take oil out of the equation. Presume for a second that Iraq is a poor destitute country like say, the Sudan. How many poor countries have we helped out by instilling a new regime? It's a non-existent list.

I love our troops and what you guys are doing over there (I am in a militry family myself). I also grant that you have a different perspective being over there. Doesn't change the events I outlined above....... Argue the other points all you want.WMD? Maybe we knew, maybe we didn't....... IF we did know, why wait? If we didn't, why go?

As you said Turtle, we can argue it till we are blue in the face. Those facts will not be known until long down the road.

So I stuck with what was known. Economics. Finance drives our existence. Yes its a crappy equation, but its reality. America cannot survive economically on its current track. Going away from the dollar on the oil exchanges will bring unbelievable hardship to our people.

All I was advocating is that we need a rallying cry. We need unity in this country for supporting our men and women over there!! To the American soldier in Iraq it may well be the cry for democracy in oppressed lands. For the farmer in Kansas or the college frat guy or the young couple starting a new family in New York, it simply isn't. You and Outlaw are unique and have an amazing insight into Iraq that I myself wish I could have. As for the rest of us, we can't put the equation together.

My argument for explaining the economic impact to the everyday American is that they better identify with the economic considerations of this conflict than with the humanitarian aspects of it.

While I have strong suspicions, I of course cannot prove that money was the prime motivating factor and won't even attempt to do so.

Stay safe Turtle and Outlaw. Hopefuly this will all pan out...... and I also hope you come home safely gentlemen.

-- September 19, 2006 6:55 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All,

I have been reading the posts of Did we go to Iraq due to the people, security issues or simply economics?. I had a couple of comments.

First, I was reading an article about the USA dollar and how we as a super power are able to simply state that our piece of paper the dollar is worth this much money because the Federal Reserve states it is worth this much. According to this article I was reading-- As a superpower, we have to be the bully to protect the dollar. I do understand this perspective and it makes sense.

In addition, after having said the above, Iran's President and his new friends (North Korea and the south american president Chavez) are building a new coaltion of the third world countries (the under dogs if you will) to do exactly the above (under mine the dollar) and world opinion of America to influence geo and political spheres.

I am conceding the first two points!!!

However, I believe USA went to war mostly because of the security situation of protecting Americans! President Bush is a no nonsense President and a Texan. He sees a problem and goes after it with the same fortitude as he goes after roping one of his cows. I for one am glad about this!!

However, in 2005, President Bush signed into law allowing oil companies to drill inside of good old USA inside of Utah, Colorado and the state north of Colorado--the largest oil fine--even over the mere oil in the middle east. The problem is the oil is inside of slate oil rock. It is harder to get at and the oil rock has to be heated before extraction. Sooo---we in the USA could get on with life without Middle East oil.
That is what I concluded.

Laura

-- September 19, 2006 11:18 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Oh, and the USA government owns 80 percent of the land that has oil slate rock on it and the usa government has known about this oil source since the 1920's.

What I was trying to say about this coalition of under developed countries, it is my contention that Chavez and Iran's President is trying to shift world economy away from the Usa dollar and possibility base world economies on the Euro for example.

If this were to happen, then the USA could not just print and print dollars (like we have with this war over 300 billion dollars) as inflation would eat America alive.

There attack is not simply terrorism as a tool, it is also economic.

Laura

-- September 19, 2006 11:29 PM ∞

---

Bob wrote:

Look on abcnews.com..an interesting article titled "Millions Bet On Iraqi Money"...gives the opinions of persons on these types of blogs....one in particular from Taxmama was very optimistic.....and they also had opinions from other blogs stating the opposite....it was pretty neat to read.....the article stated the same things that are talked about here....just wanted to share that with everyone.....Taxmama....any comments on your interview with ABC?

-- September 20, 2006 2:49 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Whoa,

Things have came alive here, well done to ya all.

Did 800 miles plus, today,with full load, scales operating, and no slack in the roadconstruction department, rubber logs and a couple of drunk drivers to deal with.

I've got so much to say, to all of this, but I'm so pooped, I just double parked in the fuel island, had a dinner and a shower, and will drive over to the scale and take a nap.

-- September 20, 2006 3:15 AM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

I believe the name of the article is:

Betting Millions on Iraqi Money

Jim

-- September 20, 2006 3:16 AM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

Here is the link, it is kind of hard to find.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2448772&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

C1Jim

-- September 20, 2006 3:34 AM ∞

---

MrReee wrote:

Hi,just found this site and have read as much as I can in the time given. I'm currently working in Iraq and each month I put aside a days wages and go buy another million Dinar. A question.......does anyone really know when this bloody thing is going to get off the ground,and if so,what rate it's coming in at? I believe that before the 1st Gulf war that the rate was 1 dinar to 3 usd,I know I can't expaect it to kick off at that,but what has really changed to devalue the country's reserves and worth? I've heard rumours that the Iraqi govt. signed away most of the oil to US oil companies in trade deals,but this is a good thing eh? US oil companies,some of which I provide security to,are investing heavily to get the oil out. So what's the best,ball-park,date that I can retire? Thanks in advance...... Ree

-- September 20, 2006 6:16 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

All,

I have been reading this site now for about a week. I'm glad to have found others who see the potential in this investment. I served a tour in Baghdad in the Green Zone that we affectionately called the Amber Zone. Let me say thanks to all who have served or are serving. I have had Iraqis personally thank me for being there. They DO appreciate what we are trying to do for them. I had to travel out more than I cared to and saw the oil fields first hand. Mr Reee-Thanks for your post and the work you do. It was because of people like you that I was able to do my job safely. I'm guessing that you are a Brit or South African just from my experience. I brought back some Dinars as an investment but 3 gentlemen that kicked in my door decided to relieve me of them. Soo my dinars are traveling back across the Mexican border along with my Plasma TV. I've replaced my Dinars and am looking to purchase some more. I've gone back thru some of the many messages looking for some mention of USA Tax info and saw a light discussion. I've read two different sites. One indicates that we get hammered hard and the other I read yesterday indicated 60-40 split with 60% taxed at 15% and the 40% at your income rate. This may be old news to you veterans to this site but would you humor me and tell me what you know about taxes in regards to currency exchange?

-- September 20, 2006 7:56 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

I read the article Betting Millions on Iraqi Money and came away realizing the prejudice the MSM has against our involvement in Iraq.

Yet, I am encouraged by it. I think there is a good message in the article, stating this investment is not a get rich quick sceme. I think those who invest in the Dinar with that in mind are sadly disappointed.

For person's with a longer term view there could be a reward in the end. Any thoughts regarding my interpretation?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 20, 2006 10:19 AM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Laura Parker wrote:

"However, in 2005, President Bush signed into law allowing oil companies to drill inside of good old USA inside of Utah, Colorado and the state north of Colorado--the largest oil fine--even over the mere oil in the middle east. The problem is the oil is inside of slate oil rock. It is harder to get at and the oil rock has to be heated before extraction. Sooo---we in the USA could get on with life without Middle East oil.
That is what I concluded.

Laura"

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Laura,

Two things to consider.

1) How hard is it to extract the oil as you propose? Current estimates are that this is not a profitable and will cost more than we could sell it for. If you base world reserves on this kind of oil (shale oil, sand oil) then Canada has the worlds largest reserves by most estimates. Problem is that most of the oil in the western hemisphere is hard to get to or extract. Once you get to the source, then production capacity must also be considered because.......

2) Keep in mind that the US uses about 6 billion barrels per year. That demands about 16.5 million barrels per day. Consider that Prudhoe Bay (which is Americas largest field right now) makes about 400k bpd when BP isn't screwing things up, you have quite an unbalanced equation.

In short, with current technologies it is quite impossible to keep up with US demand on a daily basis. Yes, lots of oil in there. It's just impossible to extract it in a timely fashion today.

MrReee wrote:

" Hi,just found this site and have read as much as I can in the time given. I'm currently working in Iraq and each month I put aside a days wages and go buy another million Dinar. A question.......does anyone really know when this bloody thing is going to get off the ground,and if so,what rate it's coming in at? I believe that before the 1st Gulf war that the rate was 1 dinar to 3 usd,I know I can't expaect it to kick off at that,but what has really changed to devalue the country's reserves and worth? I've heard rumours that the Iraqi govt. signed away most of the oil to US oil companies in trade deals,but this is a good thing eh? US oil companies,some of which I provide security to,are investing heavily to get the oil out. So what's the best,ball-park,date that I can retire? Thanks in advance...... Ree"

####################################################################################################################

MrReee,

You must first consider that the rate under Saddam was an artificial one and that it was never tested on the open market. This was an internal exchange rate for his "preferred" clientel. As for what has happened to devalue the currency......well:

1) Horrible infrastructure - Saddam didn't keep things current. Oil refinaries are either old or there are simply not enough of them. There is inadequate power due to power plants which weren't kept up. Roads are in disrepair as well, this exacerbates the problem. In short, virtually everything is outdated and it needs to be replaced. This not only takes time, but money.......

2)Security - Simply put, the position of the Iraqi government in the eyes of the world is precarious. Will it succeed, will it fail? Until this crucial question is answered, don't bet on anything major (ie an RV that will allow you to retire) happening. Perhaps a small one, just to alleviate the suffering of the people would be a good idea. If they will do even that is up in the air. We are very accustomed to the snail race they have going over there............... Add in the voices that want an independent Kurdish state, and, well you get the picture.

3)By Design - Lastly you must remember that the Dinar is undervalued by design. The CBI is keeping the value of the Dinar artificially low in or to better test stressors to the market. Better comparisons can be drawn to the currency with a constant value rather than when it flucuates. Once they finish their research, you can expect a move. Some reports have them increasing the value to 1345:1 by years end. We shall see........

Chris wrote:

" All,

I have been reading this site now for about a week. I'm glad to have found others who see the potential in this investment. I served a tour in Baghdad in the Green Zone that we affectionately called the Amber Zone. Let me say thanks to all who have served or are serving. I have had Iraqis personally thank me for being there. They DO appreciate what we are trying to do for them. I had to travel out more than I cared to and saw the oil fields first hand. Mr Reee-Thanks for your post and the work you do. It was because of people like you that I was able to do my job safely. I'm guessing that you are a Brit or South African just from my experience. I brought back some Dinars as an investment but 3 gentlemen that kicked in my door decided to relieve me of them. Soo my dinars are traveling back across the Mexican border along with my Plasma TV. I've replaced my Dinars and am looking to purchase some more. I've gone back thru some of the many messages looking for some mention of USA Tax info and saw a light discussion. I've read two different sites. One indicates that we get hammered hard and the other I read yesterday indicated 60-40 split with 60% taxed at 15% and the 40% at your income rate. This may be old news to you veterans to this site but would you humor me and tell me what you know about taxes in regards to currency exchange?"

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Taxes are a peculiar thing but I can help you on that. Our good pal President Bush has signed into law a tax reconciliation law (2003). It provides for a gradual decrease in taxes to be paid on capital gains in the next few years.

Any profit from Dinar will be handled as capital gains. There are short term taxes (for Dinar that you have held for less than a year). This is taxed at the tax bracket you are in after cashout. For long term taxes, there is a spilt rate: This year the capital gains tax is 15% for people ordinarily in the 25% bracket or above and 5% for people ordinarily below 25%. Long term gains apply when you have held for over a year. Of course, if you are claiming long term rates, your pals at the IRS will want proof of this: ALWAYS KEEP RECIEPTS OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS!!!!!!!!!! I can't stress this enough. The IRS will be checking you out backwards and forwards if you're cashing out 6 to 7 figures, you can count on it.............

Hope those answers help...... good luck to alll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- September 20, 2006 10:36 AM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Rob N wrote:

"All:

I read the article Betting Millions on Iraqi Money and came away realizing the prejudice the MSM has against our involvement in Iraq.

Yet, I am encouraged by it. I think there is a good message in the article, stating this investment is not a get rich quick sceme. I think those who invest in the Dinar with that in mind are sadly disappointed.

For person's with a longer term view there could be a reward in the end. Any thoughts regarding my interpretation?

Thanks,

Rob N."

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Dead on. Look at this long term, you'll be better off for it.

-- September 20, 2006 10:38 AM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Chris, I forgot to include the fact that long term capital gains go to 0% thats right----- zero in 2008. This is when you want a massive RV IMO. Problem is that unless congress extends the tax benefits, the rate will reset in 2009 to the previous rate of 20% long term.

Just FYI, Congress is considering extending the benefits to 2010. I am following this and will post if I find anything out.......

-- September 20, 2006 10:46 AM ∞

---

XxSiNiStRaDxX wrote:

What is the cheapest price on 1 mil dinars that is legit?

-- September 20, 2006 11:30 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Hey All-

Take a look at two artices on Iraq Economy in today's Iraqupdates.com

The first is dealing with Iraq Finance Ministry on next budget, private sector, oil crisis at http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles/10612

This articles describes problems ordinary Iraqi's have in competition for dinar money due to non-regulated goods from foreign countries that come over Iraq borders. Without regulations (tariffs to protect jobs)- Iraq's become unemployed and factories close.

Border control is needed.

The other problem is that Iraq is going into winter months and their only power plants are oil dependent--that are continually being attacked (oil pipelines) and this brings down the energy grids for electricity (heat and/or air conditioning).

One billion dollars has already been invested in electricity prodution for oil power plants. However, the country has no other power plants (like nuclear power plants) to help them product electricity. Power is going to be a problem for Iraq for a while.

The other article is Iraq determined to settle Saddam Era Debt-- is important.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/10607.

Laura

-- September 20, 2006 11:53 AM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

XxSiNiStRaDxX,

I would closely scrutinize anyone who is selling for less than 700-750 per mil nowadays. I would circumvent this by using legit dealers to begin with. I have used SafeDinar.com throughout this process and can vouch for them. I never had any troubles at all.

However, given that major banks are in on the action now (such as Chase), it has pretty much taken small time dealers out of the equation. I personally will not buy any more Dinar from any source other than a major bank.

Even though the dealers I went through certified that the Dinar were sourced legally, I do not lose sight of the fact that they had to be smuggled out of Iraq to begin with.........

-- September 20, 2006 2:05 PM ∞

---

MrReee wrote:

With regards border control Laura,Safwan is controlled by the american military,both crossings.The crossing at Jordan likewise,so who is regulating what's imported? hmmmmmmm As for the electricity problem,I have taken two generators into Al Quds power plant and two into the south near Umm Qasr.It's not easy to get a 400 ton gas turbine generator across Iraq from the free zone in Jordan without it getting shot at.Oh,and it only moves at 5mph and is as big as a house!! It all takes time and is hugely expensive. With regards oil pipeline proection,how exactly does one protect thousands of miles of pipes? It's a near impossibility given manpower costs.Incidentally,most of the guards employed to protect the pipeline near Baji were the same guys laying landmines 15 minutes after an american patrol had cleared the road,and then began the return trip to camp.
Sorry,I'm only a guy on the ground giving my point of view,doesn't even warrant a mention in any reports that you might read.
On another note,pardon the pun,I buy my currency at the money markets near the tower in Kuwait city.I then have them verified at De la Rue in Basingstoke by a friend,the guys that printed the stuff,every note so far has been genuine from almost 30 million now. I believe there are 5 banks in Kuwait that are authorised to open Iraqi dinar accounts,so why ot just deposit them there? reagrds Ree

-- September 20, 2006 2:28 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

"Take oil out of the equation. Presume for a second that Iraq is a poor destitute country like say, the Sudan. How many poor countries have we helped out by instilling a new regime? It's a non-existent list."

Now I have to ask, how many poor countries have threatened the US and actually had the financial ability to follow through - plausible nuclear capability and definite chemical/bio capability. How many times has Sudan threatened to sponsor attacks on the US just to have it happens months later like Saddam did prior to Sept. 11? You'll find that list just as non-existent. Just so you know, everyone on this board that has been here probably has information stored in their noggins that they won't repeat here. Anyway, defnite stray from dinar here so...

-- September 20, 2006 3:21 PM ∞

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Steve wrote:

Turtle wrote:

"Now I have to ask, how many poor countries have threatened the US and actually had the financial ability to follow through - plausible nuclear capability and definite chemical/bio capability. How many times has Sudan threatened to sponsor attacks on the US just to have it happens months later like Saddam did prior to Sept. 11? You'll find that list just as non-existent. Just so you know, everyone on this board that has been here probably has information stored in their noggins that they won't repeat here. Anyway, defnite stray from dinar here so..."

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Can't or won't? WAHHHHHHHH.... I wanna know!!!!! Just a morsel......

Im kidding of course Turtle. As they say, What happens in Iraq, stays in Iraq........

Point well taken. Perhaps I just need to be there in order to understand it all eh?

One thing I can say: The fact that you and Outlaw have Dinar speaks volumes. Means a lot more when folks that are in country believe in this as well.

Hope all goes well over there, stay safe.

-- September 20, 2006 5:14 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

I’m baaaack!!! Ah, new notepad…….. have been away for a while. Travel to Kuwait from Iraq, T&B site down forever, no internet connection in Kuwait as it was being updated, 20 hours in the air to get back in the good old US of A, computer problems here. Ah the US, home of things that I had forgotten about:

I live in a home here and not a hooch.
They have real food, not MRE’s or burned stuff from the DFAC (military speak for Dining Facility). Don’t let the wife cook as it reminds me of the DFAC.
I don’t have to Combat Park, or turn on my flashers and honk the horn when backing.
I don’t have to weave when going under overpasses so as to avoid being hit by rocks dropped from above.
I don’t have to call anyone Sir, not that I mean it when I am there.
No Bunker Time or incoming.
Lot’s of Honey-Do’s. Yuck.
I can drive faster then 20 mph.
The temp is 65 not 120.
I sleep in a bed and not a bunk.
The Dinar is still unchanged and the debate continues.
Roger is still being a pain. Writing editorial pieces on FX Web sites and being taken for gospel on every site that concerns the Dinar. (Roger when are you going to open the Church of the Holy Dinar in Waco? No I won’t be your alter boy but Fred is offering to be the alter cloth.)
Fred my hair shirt is still sending me hate e-mail via ESP.
When I write, you may all be awake instead of asleep.

Some things never change.

-- September 20, 2006 9:49 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

I heard from my friends Sister-in-law the other day. Her husband works in Iraq. He said that there was, apparently, an article in Stars and Stripes which have all the soldiers extremely excited. Apparently, it has to do with the dinar. Anyone know anything?

-- September 20, 2006 10:24 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Just ran accross this article you all may be interested in (in case it hasn't previously been posted:

Home > ISX Editorials & Opinion
~ Market Wrap (last 2)
Market Wrap - Wednesday March 15, 2006
Market Wrap - Monday February 22, 2006
~ Editorials (last 3)
The Unique Situation of the Iraqi Dinar
Will the Iraqi Dinar Rise? Not Likely
The Worth of Currency
~ Related Links
Iraqi News
RSS FeedsISX-Data.com Editorial
The Unique Situation of the Iraqi Dinar
A backgrounder on the Iraqi dinar, including details on why the Iraqi dinar is positioned for a huge rise in value.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By: Roger Isaksson (email)
Published: 09/11/2006
this author's past articles

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The Iraq Dinar is set up in a very simple, almost crude fashion. The set up was a quick fix after the invasion, seeing that the banking sector in Iraq was about as developed as a model T. Without a modern bank system in place, the "crude and simple" was chosen as a workable interim model.

A Brief History of the Dinar
With Saddam's face plastered all over it, the old dinar had to go. The Saddam dinar also was of very low quality, and could be easily forged on a simple copy machine.

After the invasion, new bills were immediately ordered, but due to the enormous amount needed, some of the old Saddam dinars continued to be printed and circulated until the new ones arrived.

Trusted Iraqi Dinar
Next day delivery, low prices and reliable service.

The new dinar bills started to arrive, and they brought with them all the modern safety features one would expect. A wide spread of denominations was chosen, both to make the daily handling easier, and to cover for value variations in it's exchange. Finally, a reasonable time period was granted in order to allow the citizens of Iraq to swap the old Saddam, and "Swiss" dinar in.

The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI)
The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) was set up as an auction system, with the CBI sitting on the newly printed currency, auctioning older outdated dinars and other foreign currencies with Iraqi banks for new dinars. Now that the currency exchange has been completed, the CBI also sends nearly half of it's daily auction of dinars to foreign banks in Kuwait, Jordan and beyond.

If you go to the CBI official website you will see the daily auction, the currency is now primarily sold in exchange for US dollars. The CBI is slowly but surely acquiring US dollars to help back the worth of the dinar. Everyday the amount of dollars in it's vaults increases.

The exact number of dinars in print, in circulation or on hold at the CBI is exactly known. By doing some very simple steps, full control is achieved through:

Limit the amount a person can bring with him if he is leaving Iraq, to a very small amount (in this case, 100,000 dinar);
Knowing the exact amount sold to banks outside of Iraq.
Once you know the amount of dinars out there, viola, you have complete control over it's fate. The CBI simply sells more or less to hold the dinar in a position exactly where they want it to be.

Given this situation, the dinar will not strictly be pegged. It has been called 'pegged' by some, but in reality you will have some small fluctuations on the dinar value, which you have likely noticed if you have followed it over time. These fluctuations are a balancing act by the CBI.

Simply put, truly pegged currencies don't move from the currency it is pegged to.

This is the basic Iraqi dinar system. Now some may already be asking, that if the Dinar is endlessly sold, wouldn't it flood the market, making them worthless? No, because you have exchanged your US dollars for your dinar, which helps to back the dinar through the above explained CBI mechanism.

Now, this is a very temporary system. Interested readers will of course note that any currency that is not free flowing is a hindrance to full economic development. This fall, new Iraq investment laws are suppose to be passed by the elected Iraqi parliament, allowing international investment companies (read: Big Oil) to invest.

At this very moment, oil company survey and geological teams are crisscrossing the desert, testing grounds, staking claims and hopefully not giving each other a black eye. Again, this is not Iraq government, US government, US Government contractors, US armed forces, etc. running around, this is oil companies. The future mega investment in Iraq which will help drive the economy forward.

A Question of Priorities
Some may ask if we shouldn't take care of the violence first. If Joe Everyman is building a house, is it relevant that his young children are fighting? The short answer is that 'Big Oil' is operating in many areas of the world where violence is the norm, not the exception.

By last June it was announced that no more printing of the dinar is necessary, meaning that we are most probably in the end part of the 'first stage', and are ready for the dinar revaluation. It would be an suicidal economically to leave the dinar in it's current low range, and let the oil companies come in 'on the cheap'. The dinar MUST have a much higher value at that time, otherwise Iraqi will be sold off for literally pennies, or dinars, on the dollar.

While the exact arrangement of the investment law is not yet settled, deals have already been made in how the oil revenue will be shared amongst the different regions and groups in Iraq. So things are moving forward.

It is not yet known if the revaluing of the dinar will be an overnight thing, with no previous announcements, or if it will be a gradual increase as necessary. It should be pointed out that the value of many oilfields in Iraq is also not fully known, because actual modern geological surveys have not been done for decades, if at all, but even with this lack of recent study, the known reserve in the ground rivals that of Saudi Arabia. It is hoped that in the next decade, Iraq will achieve the same oil output as its southern neighbor. Nobody can deny that the potential is there.

From the time the pumps start working, Iraqi society will start getting more and more benefits from the oil revenue. The finances will be available for roads, schools, the electric grid, social programs, new equipment, better computers, etc. These oil-funded infrastructure improvements will help drive manufacturing, and in turn, generate more jobs. Social unrest is handled with police and justice, but it must also be handled with economics. A prosperous nation is a happy nation.

Finally, Iraq has been blessed with something very few Arab countries have. Water. The agricultural heartland of Iraq have one of the highest potentials of big development. With proper development, it could be the Iraqi equivalent of the orchards and fields of California's central valley. This development and the potential of it will only strengthen the dinar now and in the future.

Exciting Times, a Positive Direction
For the dinar, these are exciting times, but even more interesting when it comes to investing in the Iraq stock exchange, because as the oil revenue will start making things possible in Iraq, the opportunities to be in on the ground floor on different investment start ups, will increase. Knowing this is a nation destined for great wealth it makes it even more exciting.

Saudi Arabia, Dubai, the Arab Emirates and Kuwait; are they rich and prosperous states? Of course they are. Why are they wealthy? Oil. Oil is money. Iraq is practically floating on oil. When do the oil companies want to start pumping? ... Yesterday.

Will Iraq continue to be a poor nation? Will the dinar continue to be at it's all time low?

**END ARTICLE**

-- September 20, 2006 11:05 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance,
Welcome to the show, you are eagerly awaited, and will get a standing ovation for your return, plus a free memebership in my newly registered Church of Dinars, just got the charter from Rolling Stone magazine.

I was gpoin go ask how the trip was , but you already told of numerous pjuter problems. Had almost an idea you would grab one of those Silicon Valley Monsters while you were here and send some lines, but I guess you had your hands tied ( in the bedposts) finally acting out your wishes for your wife to be the top.

I had a couple of e-mail replies from the articles, some critical, some very good, and one that wanted to debate intricicate details about the procedures of auction in CBI.

One reader thought the article should be sent to Bush and Blair.

Mostly they seem to think that I'm a Dinar dealer in Hairy drag or something.

(Oh man that Hairy Shirt joke seems to have been used so much now, it'a even hard to find spareparts for it now, but hey I try)

Why not change your daily dress to Skin Tight Silver Lamee Spandax, Dress, with Red Cape. Across the chest a Dinar symbol, always fighting for the rights of the depressed Dinar.

I give you a joke as a welcome gift.

An AlQaida fighter was stumbling across the Iraqi desert, in poor health and poor condition, he was mumbling "water water".

He saw ONE jewish man standing with a little box, selling neckties.

He asked -"I need water"

"I dont have any water" said the jewish man, but I can sell you a necktie for $300.

"I need water, and not an overpriced necktie, your jewish scum, I should kill you but I need my water, so I let you live".

Ok said the jewish man, "Just to show you that I am a great man, I show you were to get water, go six hours in that direction, and you will get to a restaurant that have all the water and food you need."

Tweleve hours later the AlQuaida man stumbled back to the neck tie salesman, with $300 in his hand.

-"Your brother wont let me in without a neck tie".

-- September 20, 2006 11:14 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ok that was one of the articles, just dont get in to another detailed procedure about exactly how the auction is done. I wrote it for a general audience and tried to keep it as simple as possible. For a more sofistidated audience like on this site, you all know that the exact procedure is an inhouse reverse Dollar auction. I just didnt want to go into too much of detail and procedure when writing it.

That would have been an article about the internal workings of CBI rather than the basic principles of how the Dinar is set up. I just thought that those internal procedurew was pretty meaningless to get into when I wrote it.

-- September 20, 2006 11:19 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

No have not heard about that article in the Stars and Stripe.

I just hope it's not one of my articles, that are floating around making a gospel now.

In that case, ...I've read it.

I will check on Stars and Stripe on line if they do a printed version on line.

-- September 20, 2006 11:25 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

I give up, went through a couple of Stars and Stripes on line, but found nothing significant regarding the Dinar, would you know the date of the article?

-- September 21, 2006 12:32 AM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Sorry, I sure don't. My info, as stated above, was third hand-he called her from Iraq and she, in turn, called me. He had been there for 2 1/2 years and started buying in 2004. This is the first time he has ever made a call like this.

In light of all the things I have been reading, doesn't sound impossible-although, I live by the statement of it will happen when it happens. I believe it's going to happen, but am not holding my breath until then-just will be very happy when (not if) it happens.

Sorry, I can't give you more information but I only have what she gave me-and that is third hand at that. Just trying to find out if any of you, that may have more access than I, may be able to find out more.

Thanks

-- September 21, 2006 1:28 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura,

Ok I see, well if anything of significance regarding your husbands knowledge on the atomic field that associates with Iran comes up, please let us know.

Carl,

You're right, it was a tactical mistake to go on the stage first.

However, the Iran and Venezuelan presidents did a clown job themselves, so I dont think nothing was lost.

I dont think the timeing of events was really planned, it's more a thing of "who cares"

Irans position is well know, their allies are Syria Hezbolla only, and have separated themselves from the rest of the world, including the Arab world.

Hugo Chavez, the clown of the morons.He have a country rich in oil and a potential wealthy nation could have been his legacy. Instead he have betrayed his own people, given away his countries resources for "the poor in the projects", and have managed to , despite all the countries richness, drive Venezuela into a finacial abyss.

So now he is standing up trying to look like a savior for the poor, when he himself have made sure that his own population stays poor.

He is a banana republic dictator of the lowest kind, and in a way I'm glad he have gone in cohoots with Iran, going over there giving them economical advice.

He will come up with some really good economic plans, and I'm more than happy to see him implelent them.

His dream is to dismatle the American Dollar, and start another world economy lead by poor nations, I guess.

He dont understand that it is not a Dollar imperium, it is a global economy, interlocked with Dollar, Euro, Yen, Stirling Pound , and so on, and to take them on, he have to take them all on.

His significance is there only because some one put a camera on his face, when he clowns around.

The reality is that he is so insignificant that if an ant would fart it would be an event of bigger magnitude.

Iran needs Hugo, the fact that this ignorant, is unaware that the iranians in the long run also want Hugo dead, as the infidel he is, have nothing to do with it, as long as it will bring a camera to Hugos face, he's happy.

Naa Carl, I wouldnt worry about it, Iran will be dealth with and Hugo can sit in his own poor country trying to walk the world beat, if he chooses. We need entertaining.
He is admittedly a bit tragic comic.See it from the comic side.

Steve,

Yes, I agree with your recommendation, SafeDinar was the best of the outlets that I had used in the past, somewhat expensive, but it was really worth it. The other dealers, that are promising a week or so in turnaround time, will in reality have a 4-6 weeks turnaround. Nailbiting times.

As they have started up dealing with Dinars in banks now, I would say that that is the safest institution to deal with.

Rob N,

Yes, its the reading of the cards that is the hard part. The cards may be read differently despite we are dealt the same cards.

Tim Bitts,

Very interesting postings long and deep. As a twenty year old I could eat the beef raw, but now I need it well done. It was a bit too thick in the middle so I think I pass.

Turtle,

No it is not a non existing list.

Either install a new regime, or reinstitute the old regime, is a long list.

Germany Japan, France Belgium Holland Italy Denmark, Norway, Austria, Phillipines, Guam, Korea, China, Taiwan, the list might be extended further with Panama, Nicaragua and a few more, but no, we have changed regimes, or reinstated one that previously ruled (Kuwait) pretty constantly, and in it's aftermath have either rebuilt it, or given substantial financial help. To mention, Germany and Japan, they were completely in ruins, and the Marshall plan, did on top of not only rebuilding those countries, also it helped very much other countries that was a victim of war, France , Greece, to name a few.

All,
As a parting story for the evening I would like to share with you my encounter with a couple of demonstrators today.

I was in Houston in the University area, where I was sitting in a stop n go traffic, five lanes wide and a sea of cars.

Strategically on a walkbridge across the freeway, were about 7- 10 people with a lot of signs, "Stop the invasion" "The rootcause is Israel" "No to Bush", "Honk".

No one honked, and I thought of doing a little demostration of my own.

I need to get technical here regarding my equipment so you can really appreciate the whole extent of my demostration.

I have three trainhorns, hidden within the truck, Each one of the trainhorns have a cluster of three or four horns.In order to be able to feed them with air, the original rope valve at the window is not sufficient, so I have installed a 3/4 diameter line with a ballvalve at my seat, feeding the horns.

The intensity is so high, that when standing close by you must protect your ears immediately.

I honked my horns, the sound bouncing around on the concrete walls, I can assure any one of the readers that it did not go unnoticed by no one.

The protesters now, hearing this, all jumped up and cheered, but saw immediately that this trucker wanted to communicate something else to them instead.

Halfway out the window, I had an overview that no one could miss, hanging out, honking loud, showing my finger ( you know what finger I'm talking about here).

The protesters fell down in an "Ahhh, oh well" attitude.

People was applauding in the cars that was all around me.

-- September 21, 2006 1:35 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mari lou,
Ok fair and square

-- September 21, 2006 1:37 AM ∞

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Jesse wrote:

So as taxes are concerned, can we exchange our dinars in for another foreign currency, like euros, or austrailian dollars, and hold them until 2008 to get the 0% long term tax break?

also, would gold be considered a 'similar investment' since it to is a form of currency? ie - gold eagles?

-- September 21, 2006 5:59 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Good morning everyone,

Lance

Welcome back. Say hi to hairy shirt Fred.

Roger,

Your demonstration was a good one. Sounds like it got everyone's attention.

On the nuclear situation, if we run across anything, we'll let you know.

All-

On the currency situation, I think Chavez and Iran's President are trying to get Russia and China on board to distablize the dollar.

Roger, your comment touched upon this--as Chavez and Iran would need all the countries, can you speak to this?. I would be interested in your thoughts on it.

Laura

-- September 21, 2006 6:50 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
After meeting you, and seeing your angelic face...I am surprised at such Norwegian character being displayed... at such misguided, ill informed children...
We might accept you as a southerner yet!!!

-- September 21, 2006 8:09 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger:
It was not Chavez's words that bothered me...it was the clapping and laughter in the UN Assembly from half of the audience as he degraded the US and President Bush...
Now that struck a cord...
Get one or two insignificant dictators together and you have two small minds scheming...get a bunch of dictators and thugs together as they did in Cuba recently...and you start to have a conspiracy thats going to give ya a headache...
2 cents for your thoughts on who they were conspiring about...
Continued disrespect breeds more disrepect....the problem we in america have is our political party leaders have such tunnel vision of hatred for each other, they are will to weaken our own infrastructure to win the political battle for their party...
We as citizens of this country decided somewhere along the way, to not take seriously the citizenship of our nation. Thus.... some...including a few of our political leaders see the invasion of illegals from any country as insignificant.
Give you something to think about...
In the battle for america's independence...Britain made a major mistake by under sizing their forces in the colonies...thus they had no real control of the colonist...
We believe we have one standing compliant about Iraq...we need more men on the ground to enforce security...

In Britain during the Revoluntary War the Lords and House of Commons were divided and at each others throats...thus it weakened their resolve to stop the uprising in the colonies...
Does this sound familiar to you?

History has a wonderful way of giving you a picture of things to come...if you follow the same road map...

-- September 21, 2006 8:27 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

MrReee & Laura,

Note on the Border. There are actually 2 border crossings from Kuwait into Iraq. The one MrReee uses is the Coalition Crossing where all material in support of OIF crosses and is run by the US Military. If it is in support of the troops, or GoI's (refined fuel) then it crosses there with no import export tax. Right next door (1 mile east) at the end of HWY 80 is the civilian (Abdally) crossing. This is where all civilian and commercial goods cross into and out of Iraq. Taxes (and bribes) are collected on both sides of this crossing. You ought to see it every morning with the trucks lined up for miles on the Kuwait side trying to take goods north. It blocks the whole highway until they can get everyone through customs and border security. Just thought I would let you know that there is a revenue collection point on either side for all this commercial traffic. This same setup is used at the Jordan Crossing and at Habur Gate (Turkey) crossing. So they are getting some taxes, but it is not very efficient and prone to bribery and outright theft on the Iraq side. I have not seen the Iran Crossings and have no wish to.

-- September 21, 2006 8:39 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

I was looking for the "exciting" article in the Stars and Stripes that supposedly had all the soldiers in Iraq buzzing.....but found nothing that stands out.....Mary Lou, can you elaborate on the "third party" information......surely you remember something out of that conversation.

-- September 21, 2006 9:11 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Mary Lou wrote,

"I heard from my friends Sister-in-law the other day. Her husband works in Iraq. He said that there was, apparently, an article in Stars and Stripes which have all the soldiers extremely excited. Apparently, it has to do with the dinar. Anyone know anything?"

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

This question was posted verbatim yesterday on Investors Iraq under the name mclay549. You two related?

-- September 21, 2006 1:34 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Jesse,

Might need an answer from a taxexpert. If you are investing, the investment makes a profit, now insteaad of taking out the profit, roll over the profit straight into another investment, (other currencies, gold whatever). Will there be a tax each time the investment is moved into something else or will there be a tax only when an investment is taken out of any investment , rolling or not.

Carl, Laura,

My 2 cents what the dictators in Cuba was conspiring about. First, how to stay in power. Second, as their economies are completely down the drain, because of their own actions, they have to find a reason other than their own why thy are down the drain.

From all the old school socialism floating around in any poor country, and the US is not practicing socialism, well, then the source for their miseries are pretty clear. USA.

Socialism are practicing the false idea of "zero money". Meaning, they think that there is only x ammount of money in existence, no more can be added or subtracted.

Socialism thus minted the expression of "classes" of people, where the money was believed to be predetermined of who will earn it or not.

So with that philosophy, anyone making it, is doing it on behalf of someone that is poor.

-"The reason you have money, is BECAUSE I am poor"

Communism and Socialism is basically two different gradients of the same thing. Communism have failed, but Socialism as a basic economic model have got quite a big following through the world.

It has gained quite a big acceptance in academic circles, (you know those guys that havent really contributed YET, still on loans, but they will get a DR degree in a couple of years), and in poorer countries.

The Socialist ideals was pretty much practiced in the European countries, after WW2 as their way of dealing with social issues.

Nowdays, the thinking might still be there, but it has become clear in most European countries that no one can afford to have a social system where the state takes care of you from the cradle to the grave, everything free.

So the old school of socialist thinking is vaning in Europe, plus the social welfare system is dismantled more and more.

Much of the Soviet era socialists/communist was trying to convert any poor nation into socialism.

They still today are sitting and thinking that because of unfair economics, they are poor.

It's so easy to start seing patterns of conspiracy, and of course, US with all it's wealth, is the reason they are poor.

Get a band of those diehard communists or socialists, let them take over a banana republic somewhere and you will get a dictator in no time.

Let them band together and they can sit with their failed economics and blame the world.

They will get followers from other poor failed countries in the UN that will applaud when these clowns come on the scene.

They only show their own uneducated ignorance, when they are doing so.

Any plot to take down the Dollar, is ridiculos because it is not Dollar they are against, it is as currencies goes, all the big currencies in the world that are the oil in the engine that drives the world economy.

They are not up against the Dollar because what they are up against is the total world economy, versus their little poor shit countries economies.

Theres not even substance there to worry about these clowns, they have come and gone the whole time, and I'm sure no one even remember the names of those 30,40 or 50 years ago.

-- September 21, 2006 1:34 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

JOKE OF THE DAY:

Roger, I appreciated your comments on communism. Here is an old joke Ronald Reagan used to tell. He clearly understood that communism was an idiotic system, and was a complete failure, long before the Soviet Union collapsed:

"Boris, a Russian man patiently sacrifices and saves his money for twenty years, to be able to buy a car. He goes into the Soviet Motor Bureau, where he fills out four hours of paperwork, that will allow him to buy a car. He then waits an hour for a clerk to review his paperwork, and interview him.

"Well, Boris, it looks like your papers are in order. You must come here to pick up the car, when it is ready." Looking at his calender, the clerk says, "Yes, we have a date. Your car will be ready for pickup ten years from now, on July 21st, in the morning."

Boris looks distraught. "Can we make it another day?", he asks the clerk.

"Why?" replies the clerk.

"The plumber is coming that morning!"

-- September 21, 2006 5:28 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Anonymous,

Reagan was the man. He pulled a joke like that for Gorbatiov, Reagan had a belly laugh, and Gorbi, laughed halfheartedly and polite.

-- September 22, 2006 12:53 AM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Thank you for looking Bob. Yes, Anonymous-I am the same one. At least you folks here weren't condescending as they were on the other site. I was sincerely hoping that, those of you who have better resources than me, might have been able to verify. So, I thank you for your help.

-- September 22, 2006 2:09 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Been reading up a bit on the Iraq progress, and I dont really like what I'm reading.

The main problem is the inactivity in taking necessary steps.

Many YEARS after the invasion, the oilfields are still mainly a war junk yard.

From the reports I'm reading, the Iraqi army is willing and ready to take on the militias, but no order is ever coming.

Iraq's PM Malaki, still have the backing of the US, but patience is wearing thin. The main objection from the US side is the complete non activity on the security. The hard decisions are never made, and the situation continues and continues.

Malaki are compromising with his minister appointees, in order not to stirr "feelings" and are forced by the militias to appoint a few of their own, known people with militia connections.

I was happy when Malaki took over from the other guy, but it seems to me now, that what we have here, is the same shit in different wrapping.

This endless, nothing will ever happen, situation will effect our Dinar investment.

Perhaps it is time to take back the reins over Iraq again, and implement the needed changes, take the hard decisions regarding militias, clean out the rats. Clean out the streets, and start the pumps.

Malaki promised in the beginning that real changes would take place quick and effectively, in fact, he has done very little or nothing, but sitting in endless negotiations with any farmer knocking on his door.

This is not leadership, it's an inability to take action, it's an inability to prioritize.

If a question regarding Iraq's safety, welfare and economy is on the agenda, it seems that he is unable to differ in importance this issue, against the issue wether a local clan chief can still collect his clan taxes from southern Tikrit, the clan might have sent a delegation of 25 people to him to impress him, and now he spend all his time trying to negotiate with a fart that doesnt matter.

Seems like his office is always booked full for the day with unimportant meetings and negotiatins.

I can imagine, people are lined up in the corridor, arguing, handwaiving, and demanding their turn to get in, under the threat of open or covert hostile action, if this demand is not met.

He is EFFECT.

He is not a CAUSE point.

True leaders are able to prioritize, and deal with issues in the order of magnitude as they are.

Not dealing with ANY issue that happen to be in front of the nose.

In order to be a power, you have to USE your power, otherwise you will lose your power.

Iraqi government IS the power, but the Iraqi Government is not using it. In the Iraq governments own oil revenue building in Basra, reportedly, in the entrance lobby,a big portrait of Al Sadr is hanging.

Another year goes by, and another year........our soluton so far have been to trow money to them , thinking this will sove the problem.

So far we have OVER A BILLION DOLLAR that is completely unaccounted for, just gone.

"We have appointed an investigation that will..." good luck suckers.

Something have to change, either we take Iraq back, or it's time to start pointing a gun to the forehead on some people over there and demand results.

-- September 22, 2006 2:31 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Roger!
When you are being cattle called by the same master "Iran" it is hard to take action against another member of the herd ....such as the milita under our friend Sdar...
The ingredients of Corruption and the unwillingness to take command of your own government is the reciepe which will lead to facilation and eventual collapse to a dictator...just proven ingredients from history...
I am afraid you see smell the stove already heated and ready for the dish...

-- September 22, 2006 4:44 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, don't worry about political dithering. This is a test for Iraq. Can they hold a democracy together? My guess is, no, in the long run. They are not up to it. Personally, I would like democracy to succeed there, but if it doesn't, so what? If some thug has to take charge at some point in the future, and cleans house, so what? With other thugs running other oil rich countries, their currency is still worth a lot. America won't let Iraq split apart, but they can't solve all their problems, either. My guess is America will settle for a thug again, in the future, who keeps things going, keeps the oil moving. Either way, I can't see this thing turning out as anything but good for investors. The world still needs oil. It's still running out of oil. The economies of India and China are still growing phenomenally. That will continue. China, for instance, will have an economy the size of the States by mid-century. India will soon replace Japan as the number two economy, after the States. All this economic expansion will require a lot of oil Guess where they will get it from?

Human greed won't stop. So if it ends up, Arabs are too incompetant to run a democracy, as I suspect, and some tin-horn dictator runs the show, and the Dinar is worth a lot of money that way, then so be it. America can defeat any army in the world. But it can't make people smart, nor good.

My brother in law works in Qatar. They have lots of oil. He makes lots of money. He tells me that 75% of the labor force is foreigners. Not enough competant Arabs, apparantly. So if Uncle Sam has to go there, get the oil out themselves, refine it, ship it, while bribing a bunch of brain-dead camel jockeys, I could care less. As long as I get my share of the loot.

The real resource in Arab countries are not the people, anyway. It is the oil in the ground, which, fuelled by human greed, will keep the world's economy growing, and my bank account growing. That's my belief.

Other countries, like Japan, have good and smart people and no resources. Not Arab countries. They have people in the thralls of a retarded version of Islam, who sit on the biggest pile of oil on the planet.

-- September 22, 2006 12:57 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

I'm on your page on this, I really hope they are going to make, it, and are willing to go to very long lenth and give all the slack in the world, for them to make it.

There is a point when there's no more rope. Thats all there is, their ai'nt no more.

You've got to haul yourself out of the bin with that. If you dont reach the rope, or can figure out a way to reach it, you're done.

I did yesterday get to the sites where the famous "Dr Q" was talking in teleconferance, did listen to both Dr Q, and Chairman of CBI's cousin.

"Dr Q" seem to have a little bit more contact with the chairman (at least that's what he claims, and the cousin, I dont know even why they have him on, he have not seen the chairman for fourteen years.)

For whatever it's worth, info coming from those sources have been a bit unreliable to say the least, but I did get a common thread, that the security situation have to be solved, or getting in hand before any major changes could take place.

Did check on the chairman of CBI's activities, and I must say that he is very active internationally.

I do actually believe that an RV is in the works, and I do also believe that "Dr Q" have enough of info that he can snap up bitts and pieces, but not enough to really get the insider stuff that counts.

He predicted an RV before the end of August "for sure" . That didnt happen, but I'm sure he have got the info in one way or the other, just the fact that it is an RV that is discussed, and dates are discussed, is one indication that the CBI is really planning for it.

The security situation have dramatically deteriorated in Iraq (better say Baghdad), since then, and as I can see it, a postponing of events have happened.

I dont give more to "Dr Q" other than he is just another piece in the (endless figuring ) puzzle.

So we are in fact waiting for an incompetent leader to take hard decisions regarding security, that will never come.

What amazes me, is the article about the Iraqi Army forces, they have been built up by now to quite a formidable force actually.

They have successfully , without runing, fought battles with the militia, and kicked ass.

Reportedly, the Iraqi generals, are eager to get the go ahead. The Iraqi forces are , I must point out, willing, to take the militias on.

From what I can read into the situation, Malaki hve to make some choices pretty quick, the pressure fromm US and internal pressures from his own Army is building. Take care of the militias.

Months and months of endless negotiting have produced nothing but horse voices.

It's a ridiculous proposition in the first place.

"Hi we are the goverment, can you please turn in your weapons, please stack the knifes in the blue barrel, and the AK's in the red barrel, and make sure you have cleared the chamber before you turn it in."

Imagine a "negotiating room " with cockies, sodas, and flowers on the table, table signs and a secretary running in and out with a coffee tray.

-- September 22, 2006 2:46 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Correct, no timer on the owen.

-- September 22, 2006 2:48 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Roger and All:

I stand by what I have posted more than once here. Your posting confirms at least part of my theory. Namely, the security situation must be controlled prior to an RV. I think this is one piece of the puzzle.

Once the security situation is handled the other items have the potential to fall into place. I still believe we are looking at 2008 before a modest RV of possibly 1345 to 1.

Though I may seem pessemistic in my postings, I am optomistic regarding the long-term future of Iraq. I hope I am wrong, but I think we will be holding our dinar long into the next decade.

Once the oil starts flowing Iraq will replace both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia as the wealthiest country in the middle east. A wealthy Iraq translates into a strong currency, which in turn translates into wealthy investors. Hang on to those dinars.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 22, 2006 5:55 PM ∞

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JustMe wrote:

Question: Isn't there a seven day period of "silence" before the dinar/money can actually be R/V?
There "has" to be, otherwise you would have a lot of "inside trading."

I believe -- BASED STRICTLY ON WHAT I'VE READ, HEARD, AND BEEN TOLD -- ONLY MY OPINION -- today, Friday, is day one of that seven day period...I believe that we will see a r/v on Friday, 9/29/06...at least that my prayers!

Any comments...

-- September 22, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

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JustMe wrote:

Question: Isn't there a seven day period of "silence" before the dinar/money can actually be R/V?
There "has" to be, otherwise you would have a lot of "inside trading."

I believe -- BASED STRICTLY ON WHAT I'VE READ, HEARD, AND BEEN TOLD -- ONLY MY OPINION -- today, Friday, is day one of that seven day period...I believe that we will see a r/v on Friday, 9/29/06...at least that my prayers!

Any comments...

-- September 22, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Posted this earlier, but not finding it. Thought it was interesting and will try again:

Home > Iraqi News & Related Items
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Opinion / Analysis
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Mutual funds look beyond chaos in Iraq
Mutual funds look beyond chaos in Iraq ^
03/17/2006 | Post-Gazette | cache ^
...T. Rowe Price Group Inc., based in Baltimore, says about $16 million of its $558 million Emerging Market Bond Fund is invested in the new Iraqi bonds. Standish Mellon Asset Management Co., of Boston, says it has about $2 million in Iraqi bonds, spread out among some of its emerging-market mutual funds. It declined to identify the funds but said they had a total of $400 million in assets...

-- September 22, 2006 11:51 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N.

True, but the situation has to be handled not only with force, but also with a stronger economy, I am baffled of all the dallying around on the issue, and no direct hard and decisive action is taken.

My own reality is that the fix of the Dinar would give a blow to the insurgency, as business would suddenly thrive. This could very well be done simultaneously as taking hard measures on the militia.

The idea that the security issue has to be dealt with FIRST, might very well be the prevailing idea in Iraq. I dont agree, but if that is the case, the RV will have to wait.

-- September 23, 2006 12:11 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

JustMe,

Absolutely, in the economic doctrines taught in any university , socialist capitalist, free trade or barter trade, the seven day silence is one of the holiest economical principles.

"There are seven day silence before any revaluation" have been found on Viking runstones, and old Egyptian hieroglyfs.

The only country Ogabebeland, that did not apply that principle was consequently over runned by locust, fire , earthquake and Riots. The ruling family had to flee the country in shame after not applying this principle.

Ogabebe Credits, the countries currency is still floating around mostly in collectors hand, but are in general believed to be cursed and have very little , or no value.

-- September 23, 2006 12:20 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ask me, I know.

-- September 23, 2006 12:22 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Roger, when will the RV happen and how much will it be? :o)

-- September 23, 2006 2:40 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

The International Compact For Iraq/Economic Development

President Bush And Prime Minister Maliki Discussed Prime Minister Maliki's Proposal For An International Compact For Iraq, Which Is Expected To Be Signed Later This Year. The Compact will outline Iraq's commitment to specific economic reforms - and the international community's commitment to support those reforms. The United States will work hard to encourage other countries to support the compact, and provide assistance to help Iraq's new democracy succeed.

Iraq's Economy Has Made Real Progress In The First Two Months Of The New Unity Government. Most macroeconomic indicators are in positive territory, and Iraq has realized its highest oil production and export levels since before the war. Exports are averaging 1.47 million barrels per day for the year, and 1.60 million per day in June. Many challenges remain in these areas, but real progress is being made under the Prime Minister's leadership.

Prime Minister Maliki Has Laid Out His Plans For New Investment Laws, Anti-Corruption Measures, Restored Financial Relationships With Gulf States, And Initiatives To Restore Essential Services Through Investment And Reform - And He Is Following Up. Prime Minister Maliki's efforts include directing each cabinet member to establish a comptroller and to submit ethics and financial disclosure agreements. He has submitted an investment law to parliament, which he expects to be enacted before the end of this month.

Source : http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/

C1Jim

-- September 23, 2006 3:17 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Nelly B,

With such a direct approach a direct answer is appropriate, and no other details like "how many fake library cards are in the hands of illegal immigrants?" or " Is Camilla fridgid?", should be brought into the discussion. That is compltely beside the point, has nothing to do with it, and we shouldnt even go there.

-- September 23, 2006 4:24 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

C1Jim,

Seems like the official site is very positive from the White House, regarding Maliki, other reports from US gov are not so rosy.

Quite a pressure right now on Maliki to do something.

-- September 23, 2006 4:28 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

May I ask, where exactly did this 1345 :: 1 figure come from, I've seen it a couple of times, and it seem to have great significance to some, that keeps repeating it.

I just think that such a small RV is not really practical, as such a small step will do very little or nothing to change anything.

A Dinar to Dollar is on the other hand, a bit too much ( They might give us an early Christmas present though, who knows), and it seems not likely either. At least not in the short run.

Around 10 cents is a significant step, that will make a difference, and it's not so far out that it will tip any scales unfavorably. To me it seems to be a very workable ballpark figure.

Why would anyone try to make a very small insignificant, microscopic change on an already undervalued currency, and believe the endresult will have any kind of significance.

-- September 23, 2006 4:50 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

I think the 1345:1 number won't work. All it will do is cause everyone to rush out an buy dinars, hoping it will continue. Same deal with a 1340:1, then a 1200:1, then 600:1 etc.
I think the RV will happen around 0.01 - 0.03. Then it will raise or fall with the situation. Anymore than that I think would be too drastic. Of course this is just my opinion. I of course welcome anything over .10. that is my retire point.
Where do you think it will actually hit the market?

-- September 23, 2006 5:13 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
You are confused...that was the 12 days before christmas, that brought devastation to the unbelievers as one of them released methane during the required period of silence...however, that is how here in the south we learned to search caves without a flashlight.....

Nellie!
No Shit! Camillia is frigid? Damn! all my fantasies shot to hell!

-- September 23, 2006 6:23 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Nellie!
Can't get over camillia being frigid...are you blokes in the UK going to have a mass demonstration in the streets like the muslims did over the pope telling the truth for once...
Boy! I bet that came as a shock to charlie....I mean after all...he was shagging her for years before he found out....but hey! again science has proved....rubbing anything against anything fast enough and you can get heat along with a mess, if you don't have a towel
Plus....just as certain as it is that "exlax" goes in your teacher's chocolate cookies... marriage has proven it will always be the cure for that cursed affliction of "sexual desire".

-- September 23, 2006 6:37 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

How many times a day to you check this site?

-- September 23, 2006 6:58 AM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Heard this on MSNBC-just a blurb-apparently not confirmed by US as I haven't heard it anywhere else-but finally found the article and wanted to pass it on to all of you (Please note-it is "French Intel"):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

French Intel: Bin Laden is dead

PARIS, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- Osama bin Laden is dead, according to Saudi intelligence sources, cited by a French newspaper, which claims to have obtained a document leaked to them by French intelligence.
The news of the death of al-Qaida's chief was reported in the Saturday edition of l'Est Republicain, a respected regional daily. The French paper cites a memo they claim was obtained from the French counter-espionage agency, the Direction Générale des Services Extérieurs, or the DGSE.
The world's most wanted terrorist, according to the French newspaper, is believed to have died last August as a result of typhoid fever while in Pakistan.
The report of bin Laden's death was however not confirmed by official sources.
But a Saudi intelligence source told United Press International: "We are not saying he is dead, but there is a lot of truth in the report." The Saudi source, who spoke on condition that his name not be revealed, confirmed that according to Saudi Arabian intelligence "bin Laden was very ill these past few weeks."
The Saudi intelligence source told UPI "There is no way we can prove that bin Laden is dead until we can see the body." But, he added, "A good portion of what is in the report is true."
For the moment, the source went on to say, "We do not confirm (the death). "We don't know."
Making the report all the more credible is the choice by the person or persons in French intelligence of where to leak the report, the regional L'Est Republicain, rather than one of the larger Paris-based dailies.
"There is a history with that paper," said the Saudi source.
The information is based on what the newspaper calls "a usually reliable source," stating that Saudi intelligence sources "are convinced" of bin Laden's death.
United Press International - Intl. Intelligence - French Intel: Bin Laden is dead

All I know is that I want a body........................
_________________________________________________________________

Additionally, I emailed my friend and questioned her further about her husband's call-I am posting her answer for you all to read:

I haven't heard from David the last couple days. But when he called on Tuesday he said that everyone was still twitterpated over there. And he is still hearing $1.68 to the Dinar. I can't imagine that, but that's what he is hearing. He said for me to just keep a good eye on things for now, just in case it isn't just a rumor!! I've had my TV on the stock channel for the last week and I had my neighbor set my computer to alert me when there is a change in the Currency. It's crazy! If I hear anymore I'll yell at cha. I did find out that Wells Fargo will be trading and when it does go on the world market all I have to do is take it to any branch and they will take care of it for me. I think they said that there will be a one time $5.00 fee. I told my mother to go to Amarillo tomarrow and open up an account with Wells Fargo so that's what she is doing. I already have an account with them. We don't have the bank you were talking about down south. Talk to ya later, Crystal

(please don't shoot the messenger, folks)

-- September 23, 2006 11:02 AM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Per live phone conversation on MSNBC, US intel can not confirm the French Intel-and, as of right now-it is doubtful.

-- September 23, 2006 11:09 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

What's this? I think I read a rumour...out of the corner of my mind....on this winged tableau of hopes and dreams...It can't be true...I barely dare utter it...If true, this Hamlet's heart crashes, like a celestial meteor, crashing from from heaven's vault, like Momma Cass doing a belly flop, off a three metre diving board...the wicked thing some vile creature on this site dared utter was:....Her ladyship, Camilla, is ...dare I say it, ....frigid?.... Did I hear that right? Please....say it ain't true...Hells bells, how I have dreamed of ropin' that filly for years. Nothing sexier than a horsefaced English matron. I was hopin' to steal her away from Prince Jughead. I bought a saddle and spurs for the occasion. Now what am I to do? Frigid? Neigh! Neigh! Say it ain't true. Oh, well, Prince Chuckles should have known he could never compete with her first love---Mr. Ed!

-- September 23, 2006 12:10 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

What's this? I think I read a rumour...out of the corner of my mind....on this winged tableau of hopes and dreams...It can't be true...I barely dare utter it...If true, this Hamlet's heart crashes, like a celestial meteor, crashing from from heaven's vault, like Momma Cass doing a belly flop, off a three metre diving board...the wicked thing some vile creature on this site dared utter was:....Her ladyship, Camilla, is ...dare I say it, ....frigid?.... Did I hear that right? Please....say it ain't true...Hells bells, how I have dreamed of ropin' that filly for years. Nothing sexier than a horsefaced English matron. I was hopin' to steal her away from Prince Jughead. I bought a saddle and spurs for the occasion. Now what am I to do? Frigid? Neigh! Neigh! Say it ain't true. Oh, well, Prince Chuckles should have known he could never compete with her first love---Mr. Ed!

-- September 23, 2006 12:11 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Bin Laden Dead? I'm very very sceptical. First if he have been able to be hidden for years, and despite all efforts, no report of his whereabouts have resulted in his finding, then I can assume, that we have not been able to plant an agent close to him.

Second, from his camp, messages arriving regulary to AlJaazera TV network.

So they seem to be able to control what messages goes out and what goes in.

Suddenly a leak, that are getting to media in no time, with detailed information about his health, and death.

On top of it all, the French....

If he was actually dead, I dont thing they would use a French channel, they have luck with AlJazzera, they willingly play hours of their propaganda, all they have to do is rant in front of the camera, and they go for it. They would rather announce it with their old buddies
AlJazzera. His death would make him once again a hero, and a martyr, manage to execute the 9/11 and subsequently managed to escape all the electronic stuff we have, trying to get him.

That would be a PR opportunity thay would not pass up on, but then again, theyre really not thinking straight anyway, and might not know how to market stuff.

Journalists are fabricating things the whole time, hardly any story are reported as is, but have a slant of something in it, some are completely fabricated, Tiger Woods experienced one very recently.
So this might also be a fabrication, from someone that have nothing to do with Bin Laden.

-- September 23, 2006 12:21 PM ∞

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Outlaw in Iraq wrote:

To all my Buds in the sandbox:

I'M headed back... should be in country around the 5th if plans don't change... Revising my will and Packing for the trip now!

Be safe! See ya soon! Hoorah!

Outlaw

-- September 23, 2006 12:23 PM ∞

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Outlaw in Iraq wrote:

Roger,

He might be dead... I am not sure Bush would admit if he was... That would take the wind out of the sails for the war!!!

Bush probably has him on ice somewhere so he can pull his corpse out around election time in 07. (hehe)

Outlaw

-- September 23, 2006 12:27 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

No no no, you wont get shot, we cut your retina out, make slices of your liver and eat it.

Please tell me, you have a friend, that is talking to some "David". who is this David, and what postition is he in? ...and why does these high numbers in a revaluation seem to come from this direction.

Dont worry, we can all see it's a pretty long winerank, just curious what you know about the source.

-- September 23, 2006 12:28 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

He and his wife are friends of mine-he works in Iraq for Haliburton. So far, his truck has been bombed out twice from under him-first time, he walked away okay-second time, he was injured and is still recovering. This is the first time he has called (been there for over two years) his wife with this kind of information. I talked with her last Sunday and have been checking everywhere I can for info-and asking others on these boards (with more sources than me) for confirmation. I emailed her last night-she also has been trying to confirm. I am posting our emails back and forth last night:
_______________________________________________________________
He has a new computer, but he can't access the internet. The military has put a block on all wireless access. Naturally, they do that after we buy a computer for him to take back with him this last time. I just have to wait for him to call me. Hopefully he will call tomarrow!! The info he got came from one of the guys that had just come off a convoy from Baghdad. He said that every one in Baghdad was twitterpated and now it has spread all the way to his camp. His friend said that he tried to get them to tell him how he knew that the Dinar was about to come out and they said "We can't tell you, but just trust us, we have inside info." Now what ever that means. And since David is on light duty and can't drive right now, he won't be going to Baghdad any time soon as far as I know. I really wish I knew what they were talking about TOO! I have been watching this stuff around the clock since a week ago this past Thursday night. I haven't seen anything else either. I've seen the tiny flux in the dinar too but that's about it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything I promise, and you do the same okay. Crystal

Mclay549@aol.com wrote:
Did he elaborate on why they are thinking that it's going to revalue? I've been watching it closely this week (more so than usual) and still haven't seen any kind of movement other than an up and down between 1475 dinars to the dollar down to 1466 to the dollar and back up again. Also, have been looking through any source I can find on the net and nothing. They have to have heard something that has them worked up. It had to come from somewhere. If it's just a rumor-such as we get here-almost monthly-then it's a believe it when I see it. If it's valid information, sure wish we could find out where it came from.

Can you, perhaps, email him and obtain a little more information?
Thanks
Toni

In a message dated 9/22/2006 8:25:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, crystal_k1968@yahoo.com writes:
I haven't heard from David the last couple days. But when he called on Tuesday he said that everyone was still twitterpated over there. And he is still hearing $1.68 to the Dinar. I can't imagine that, but that's what he is hearing. He said for me to just keep a good eye on things for now, just in case it isn't just a rumor!! I've had my TV on the stock channel for the last week and I had my neighbor set my computer to alert me when there is a change in the Currency. It's crazy! If I hear anymore I'll yell at cha. I did find out that Wells Fargo will be trading and when it does go on the world market all I have to do is take it to any branch and they will take care of it for me. I think they said that there will be a one time $5.00 fee. I told my mother to go to Amarillo tomarrow and open up an account with Wells Fargo so that's what she is doing. I already have an account with them. We don't have the bank you were talking about down south. Talk to ya later, Crystal

Mclay549@aol.com wrote:
Hi-

Nothing so far-have you heard any more from David? Has he given you any more information?

Toni

________________________________________________________________
As I stated before, not going to hold my breath - just hopeful. What I can't believe is if it does revalue, it would be $1.68 to the dollar. They started buying their dinars mid 2004 and this is the first time he has ever told his wife anything like this before. You may be right-the service men may be picking up rumors - like us - from the internet. Normally, I simply post news items I see that I believe would be of interest. Since this is the first time this has happened, I wanted to post it and see if anyone could find any validity to David's call

-- September 23, 2006 12:40 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Cool, guess you will be posting as "Outlaw in Iraq" when you're there.

Bin Laden on ice, good idea, make a freakshow of him.

Keep it cool under the helmet, dont shoot yourself in the foot,(dont shoot someone else in the foot either)

Let us know how things are going. Our hearts are with you.

-- September 23, 2006 12:43 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

p.s.-our emails are reverse order-I copied and pasted the replys directly from my email rather than one at a time------so-----last email first, etc.

-- September 23, 2006 12:44 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

Interesting, well it's a rumor, but at least it shows that it's some kind of activity on that front. From what I can get, Baghdad is where the jittering is, would like to know if this is rumours within the compalny, or if it is based more on actual observations, and events that are taking place with the locals. What they are doing and what they are thinking.

1.68 seems to be so much out of the frame, but hey, I take it.

-- September 23, 2006 12:52 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

What are you when you are twitterpated?

-- September 23, 2006 12:55 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

No wonder Iraq did so badly trying to repel our invasion, we probably knew their warplan ahead of time.

If a reval is to take place, it's suppose to be a secret, until it has happen, but in Iraq, it seems completely impossible to keep a secret.

-- September 23, 2006 12:59 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

C1Jim,

How many times I check this site, I dont know, I have it on the whole time.

-- September 23, 2006 1:06 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
I bet prince charles can tell ya what "twitterpattered" means! ..if I was him I would have quit drinking whatever caused his brain to reverse the number 01 to a 10...

-- September 23, 2006 1:11 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Roger-I agree with you. Also, I think that that is her southern word for Extremely Excited-please note-that was her description-not mine. She was born and raised in Texas-probably would strangle me for posting our emails. However, wanted to show, as previously stated, my info was third party and was looking for verification. By the way, ran accross a very good article concerning Bin Laden's reported POSSIBLE death:
_______________________________________________________________
Probe into 'Bin Laden death' leak

Bin Laden is blamed for attacks across the world
President Jacques Chirac has ordered an inquiry into the leak of a French secret service memo claiming that Osama Bin Laden had died.
Mr Chirac told reporters he was surprised the memo had been leaked, and refused to comment on the claim itself.

A French newspaper quoted a document as saying the Saudi secret services were convinced the al-Qaeda leader had died of typhoid in Pakistan in late August.

Officials in Pakistan and the US said they could not confirm the account.

Saudi-born Bin Laden was based in Afghanistan until the Taleban government there was overthrown by US-backed forces in 2001 after the 9/11 attacks.

Since then, US and Pakistani officials have regularly said they believe he is hiding in the lawless border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

His last videotaped message was released in late 2004, but several audio tapes have been released this year - the last at the end of June, in which Bin Laden praised Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, who was killed in an American air strike.

Internal organs paralysed

In its report, French regional daily L'Est Republicain said it had obtained a copy of a DGSE foreign intelligence service report dated 21 September.

"According to a usually reliable source, the Saudi services are now convinced that Osama Bin Laden is dead," it read.

"The information gathered by the Saudis indicates that the head of al-Qaeda fell victim, while he was in Pakistan on August 23, 2006, to a very serious case of typhoid that led to a partial paralysis of his internal organs."

Mr Chirac said: "I am surprised that a confidential memo from the secret services has been published, therefore I've ordered the defence minister to start an inquiry.

"As far as the information itself is concerned, it's not confirmed in any way. Therefore I have no comment at all."

The Washington-based IntelCenter, which monitors terrorism communications, said it was not aware of any similar reports on the internet.

"We've seen nothing from any al-Qaeda messaging or other indicators that would point to the death of Osama Bin Laden," director Ben Venzke told the Associated Press news agency.

-- September 23, 2006 1:12 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

C1Jim,

May I ask, why have you set your retirement level at such a low level as .10?

Iraq have a lot of wealth, and in time the potential for the Dinar to rise is very high.

I could see that a part of the investment could be cashed in, just to be able to make a change in the life, but it is a long term investment.

Then again, if they go wild and do something close to a Dollar or Euro, I think the line at the banks will be pretty long.

-- September 23, 2006 1:18 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Roger,

Thanks... you too be careful out there... I think the roads are more dangerous than Iraq but who knows...

To All:
I'm sure that when the Dinar RV'S... no one will know in advance. I have been sitting and waiting for over two years now and if you go back to the old posts on here, you will see that everyweek someone posts rumors of a pending RV and it comes and it always comes and goes...

Remember a few months ago whe the billions of Dinar was stolen??? I don't think the CBI is going to RV until they find out who got it... Has anyone heard of a follow-up on that story?

Cheers...

Outlaw

-- September 23, 2006 1:22 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

War price on U.S. lives equal to 9/11... By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 23, 1:36 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Now the death toll is 9/11 times two. U.S. military deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan now surpass those of the most devastating terrorist attack in America's history, the trigger for what came next.
The latest milestone for a country at war came Friday without commemoration. It came without the precision of knowing who was the 2,974th to die in conflict. The terrorist attacks killed 2,973 victims in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

An Associated Press count of the U.S. death toll in Iraq rose to 2,696. Combined with 278 U.S. deaths in and around Afghanistan, the 9/11 toll was reached, then topped, the same day. The Pentagon reported Friday the latest death from Iraq, an as-yet unidentified soldier killed a day earlier after his vehicle was hit by a roadside bombing in eastern Baghdad.

Not for the first time, war that was started to answer death has resulted in at least as much death for the country that was first attacked, quite apart from the higher numbers of enemy and civilians killed. Historians note that this grim accounting is not how the success or failure of warfare is measured, and that the reasons for conflict are broader than what served as the spark.

The body count from World War II was far higher for Allied troops than for the crushed Axis. Americans lost more men in each of a succession of Pacific battles than the 2,390 people who died at Pearl Harbor in the attack that made the U.S. declare war on Japan. The U.S. lost 405,399 in the theaters of World War II.

Despite a death toll that pales next to that of the great wars, one casualty milestone after another has been observed and reflected upon this time, especially in Iraq.

There was the benchmark of seeing more U.S. troops die in the occupation than in the swift and successful invasion. And the benchmarks of 1,000 dead, 2,000, 2,500.

Now this.

"There's never a good war but if the war's going well and the overall mission remains powerful, these numbers are not what people are focusing on," said Julian Zelizer, a political historian at Boston University. "If this becomes the subject, then something's gone wrong."

Beyond the tribulations of the moment and the now-rampant doubts about the justification and course of the Iraq war, Zelizer said Americans have lost firsthand knowledge of the costs of war that existed keenly up to the 1960s, when people remembered two world wars and Korea, and faced Vietnam.

"A kind of numbness comes from that," he said. "We're not that country anymore — more bothered, more nervous. This isn't a country that's used to ground wars anymore."

Almost 10 times more Americans have died in Iraq than in Afghanistan, where U.S. casualties have been remarkably light by any historical standard, although climbing in recent months in the face of a resurgent Taliban.

The Pentagon reports 56 military deaths and one civilian Defense Department death in other parts of the world from Operation Enduring Freedom, the anti-terrorism war distinct from Iraq.

Altogether, 3,031 have died abroad since Sept. 11, 2001.

The toll among Iraqi civilians hit a record high in the summer, with 6,599 violent deaths reported in July and August alone, the United Nations said this week.

Among the latest U.S. deaths identified by the armed forces:

_Army 2nd Lt. Emily J.T. Perez, 23, Fort Washington, Md., who died Sept. 12 in Kifl, Iraq, from an explosive device detonated near her vehicle. A former high school sprinter who sang in her West Point gospel choir, she was assigned to the 204th Support Battalion, 2nd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.

_Marine Sgt. Christopher M. Zimmerman, 28, Stephenville, Texas, killed Wednesday in Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to 2nd Reconnaissance Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

A new study on the war dead and where they come from suggests that the notion of "rich man's war, poor man's fight" has become a little truer over time.

Among the Americans killed in the Iraq war, 34 percent have come from communities reporting the lowest levels of family income. Half come from middle income communities and only 17 percent from the highest income level.

That's a change from World War II, when all income groups were represented about equally. In Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, the poor have made up a progressively larger share of casualties, by this analysis.

Eye-for-an-eye vengeance was not the sole motivator for what happened after the 2001 attacks any more than Pearl Harbor alone was responsible for all that followed. But Pearl Harbor caught the U.S. in the middle of mobilization, debate, rising tensions with looming enemies and a European war already in progress. Historians doubt anyone paid much attention to sad milestones once America threw itself into the fight.

In contrast, the United States had no imminent war intentions against anyone on Sept. 10, 2001. One bloody day later, it did.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060923/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/911_times_two

Comments???

-- September 23, 2006 1:29 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

Well, if he is actually dead, may he go to hell. Have a feeling though that this latest Bin Laden thing, needs to be played out a bit more though.

Carl,

Oh I thought the southern way of entering a cave was to expel a looooong fart lit it, and thus have light.

-- September 23, 2006 1:36 PM ∞

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snowballed wrote:

First of all I would like to say that I bought my ticket for this train a very long time ago and paid for it with my sweat and tears in the sandbox. Several of my Buds are still there helping the Iraqi People and I would like to say "HOORAH" to them!

This is the first time I've posted here, but have been reading for years. I'm posting today because I am having some financial difficulty's due to health problem that a family member is going through, sadly causing me to offer some of my Dinar for sale to cover some despertly needed Medical Costs. I really don't want to sell any of it but, it looks like I don't have much choice at the moment.

If anyone is interested, I can be contacted at ibsnowballed@hotmail.com

Heres to hoping that our investment pays off big in the very near future... See ya all at the Pig Roast!

Snowballed

-- September 23, 2006 1:49 PM ∞

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cant tell you wrote:

MaryLou,

I have four family members in Iraqi, two very near the greenzone and one inside -- ALL CAMPS have been placed under "unusually" strict gag orders...I was told that a US military Captain has visited each camp and given each IT supervisor instructions to monitor all computer transactions and phone calls and that "NONE" are to be made unless they are completely and 100% business related...they were not given a time frame, but I was told that in three years this person has never seen such strictness on any gag order...now, your husband being wounded may make it different for him -- I don't know -- this is just what I've been told. Also, from the greenzone..."there's been an abnormally high amount of activity in the last few days, and it all appears to be from really high ranking officials from all over the world."

That's all I could get -- we were cut off... Yes, it could be indirectly related to Radana, but the impression I got was that it was TO strict, TO direct and way TO much activity for it to be related to the event ... MY OPINION, it's because the r/v is coming ANY DAY!

Anybody else hear anything...?

-- September 23, 2006 2:14 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
Naw! the strobe affect is better...its sort of like being at a RAVE CONCERT if you have a bunch of your buddies with ya...
of course every now and then we have to exit to refuel...that is why we always have cans of bushes best beans on the fire..
besides the smell keeps the bats off ya...unfortunately your girlfriend too...

-- September 23, 2006 2:15 PM ∞

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cant tell you wrote:

I forgot: I was told that this gag order was issued either late Thursday evening or early Friday morning...

-- September 23, 2006 2:16 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

That's a negative on the gag order. The only cut in comms has been due to military deaths, etc, when they do a comms black out. There are missions going on around Baghdad right now causing some OpSec related monitoring. There's a little tough love being handed to the Iraqi leaders right now basically telling them to square away their house - issue like malitias, death squads,corruption, etc getting some serious past due addressing. If there is any follow through, you will like what you see in the next month or so. IF...

-- September 23, 2006 2:57 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Dead? Don't Believe it.... I firmly believe Bin Laden is alive and well. There are several indications that tend to make me think this...
1. The French Government has not lowered their flag at half mast
2. I saw the French President in a news conference this morning and he was not flogging himself with chains.
3. Senator Kerry was not wearing black today.
4. At 5AM Senator Ted ennedy had not switched to Straight Malted Scotch

-- September 23, 2006 4:52 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

For what it's worth, I do remember hearing an unconfimed report that Bin Laden was seriously ill some weeks back. Not sure if it was posted here or on another site.

If it is false information (and I'll sit on the fence for that one), what does anyone gain by releasing it?

P.s. Regarding Camilla, I'm not quite sure where that came from (Roger?!), but does it matter if she is frigid or not? I'd rather hump a horse.

-- September 23, 2006 5:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

The Latest Buzz,

Bin Ladens death, it just seems to irregular of a channel that this could be the case.

Might be a leak of our own, to make the Bin Laden camp make a move, that we have trapped.

When it comes to intelligence, specially leaks, there is a purpose behind them. A leak can be planted, wether the contens of the leak, is favorable or unfavorable by the planters, to serve a purpose, that will disclose data in the opposite camp.

Regarding the clampdown if info from the Green Zone.

We as Dinaroholics are living in our own reality bubble, and will eagerly interpret any movement on the ground as being Dinar related.

Not everything is related to Dinars. This might very well be a big security sweep in progress.

Remember, a potsmoker consider everyone potsmokers and is relating to lawyers, doctors and eeeeeeeeeeeverybody as potsmokers.

Same goes for an alcoholic, everybody drinks. Criminal the same, everybody are crocks, they just haven't got cought yet.

So, in our healthy Dinaroholic state of mind, we can't imagine what a security clampdown means when it comes to crimes, pot or alcohol but we for sure can associate it with Dinars.

Our world circles around Dinars.

This might very well be a buildup to a bigger ground offensive against the militia.

It might be a prepapration for a big announcement, Big Oil coming in, Investment laws passed, and, or hopefully a revaluation.

Something is about to happen, all the buzz, all the indicators that have pointed to somethig for months, actually a few months. Something is coming together, for sure, but in the order of things, the revaluation might be in their priority list somewhat lower on the scale.

Big things might very well happen, but the revaluation might still be some time away, I'm just giving a word of caution

I do believe they will make ONE package announcement of it all, but not nessecarily.

Carl,
So true, so true, those guys have choosen sides long ago, and should actually wear a Mao uniform to make it easier to distinguish from the reast of the crowd, but as the mindset of terroroists, they do everything necessary to mingle,believing they are one of us, until they detonate their bombs.

Regarding the constant afterburner flame, keeping the girlfirends away. Oh, I get it, sorry I thought they were the ones keeping the fire lit, in their rearends. Oh, sorry ,when it comes to southern girls and southern customs, you have to enlighten (!) us on how things are done down there.

Nelly B,

Just after the fall of the Taliban, and our successful invasion of Afghanistan, the rumor that Bin Laden have to have dialysis with a machine, was going on. Later it was found that there has been no history of him having any kidney problems, just a rumor.

Regarding Camilla, well if the choice is Camilla or a horse, ....hm...doesnt Charles look suspiciously like a horse???

-- September 23, 2006 9:11 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

The Queen and Camila have had a frosty relationship in the past. Looks like they are getting closer. The Queen just offered Camilla a weekend in Paris, with a car and driver.

-- September 23, 2006 9:38 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

The Queen and Camila have had a frosty relationship in the past. Looks like they are getting closer. The Queen just offered Camilla a weekend in Paris, with a car and driver.

-- September 23, 2006 9:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

I'm sure she announced it thoroghly for all the world to know, to make sure the paparazis are there, ready for the ride.

-- September 23, 2006 11:16 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Kevin, the moderator, and All,

I get glitches when posting. Sometimes when dialing the security code whe I'm posting, the default window comes up telling me it wasnt approved becuse of wrong code, the code was ok, but when the second window comes up, it's usually no problem at all, using the new code.

I've seen some double postings.

Sometimes when editing, the text does'nt move forward, but stays where it is, and cancel the text in front of it,as you are rewriting, so it means sometimes you have to rewrite a whole sentence or chapter to get it right.

At one time, the box with the codenumber had a little red cross in it only, and no number, so I posted it, it went to the deafault box, a new code number replaced the red cross and then it worked.

Anyone else experiencing this?

-- September 23, 2006 11:28 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

I get double postings. Sometimes I have to move the screen down, then back up, before I can read it. Otherwise parts disappear.

-- September 24, 2006 12:16 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

hello all, in answer to Outlaws question, yes the sign at BIAP is still up. . .100k iqd or 10k usd

-- September 24, 2006 12:16 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

The stuff that dissapears, highlight it, by pressing left on your mouse, and move the arrow over the text, then it jumps out of hiding.

-- September 24, 2006 2:16 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

I haven't heard anything about keeping communications business only. We are business as usual.

-- September 24, 2006 2:42 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

C1Jim,

May I ask, why have you set your retirement level at such a low level as .10?

Iraq have a lot of wealth, and in time the potential for the Dinar to rise is very high.

I could see that a part of the investment could be cashed in, just to be able to make a change in the life, but it is a long term investment.

Then again, if they go wild and do something close to a Dollar or Euro, I think the line at the banks will be pretty long.
----------------------

.10 is the number I have set. I won't cash it all in, but at .10, I have enough dinar to retire, while saving some to cash in later, should the numbers go up.

-- September 24, 2006 2:47 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Got a snippet of info on the stolen IQD,s . The money were apparently insured, and the money will be, if not ready, reinstalled to CBI. All I got was a headline telling that the insurance company was to cover for a big fire somewhere in Iraq, and for the money stolen, then ofcourse a big truck went between me and the hot spot antenna, I dropped, and I lost the rest, cant find it.

-- September 24, 2006 3:58 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Come and think of it, that bankrobbery was small potato compared with the bankrobbery that Saddam did a day before the bombs started to fall. About $980million dollars, walked out the door. One of Saddams son was in charge of the operation. About 650 million dollars was recovered in Dollars hidden within the walls of Saddams palaces, but the rest is just gone with the wind. Thats 230 million Dollars. Now THAT was a bankrobbery.

I'm pretty sure, like the mud in Mississippi, the Iraq desert hides a lot of secrets.

-- September 24, 2006 6:15 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

hello all, in answer to Outlaws question, yes the sign at BIAP is still up. . .100k iqd or 10k usd

-- September 24, 2006 7:53 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

When the Dinar hits big time, and all of us have extra cash to invest in the future,don't forget to invest in the future of our country. Our Military is the "best of the best" and when they finish fighting for our freedoms they will return to lead the US to a bright future.

The link indicates many foundations and groups that aid our Military, and their famlies, in the transition from the battle zone to their state-side duties.

http://www.military.com/Community/Subpage/1,14746,CHARITY,00.html

-- September 24, 2006 8:24 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hold on if they walked out with 980 mill, and only 650mil is recovered, that makes 330mil unrecovered, brainfart, sorry.

-- September 24, 2006 12:45 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Roger and others, regarding double-posting, disappearing text etc...

I had some problems with Internet Explorer 6 on my old system and couldn't reinstall, so I tried an 'upgrade' to IE7 Beta. Really wish I hadn't. T&B absoloutely crawled with it, taking a minute or so to scroll down a single page. I know, stay away from Beta programs, they have bugs in by their very nature...

Long story cut short, I tried FIREFOX and have to say it's brilliant. No missing text, no double-posting or slow scrolling, far fewer security vulnerabilities, built in pop-up blocking , customisable search bar (i.e. Google), Favourite shortcuts on the search bar. You can open 'tabs' (several windows which you can 'tab' between), with only one instance of the program being open.

I hadn't heard of it before I had probs with IE, but can't recommend it enough, having used it. Its a gem of a program, FREE and best of all, if you add in the FREE 'stumble' program, you get to find great stuff on the 'net, in categories that you have selected and other 'stumblers' have enjoyed. I've found all sorts of interesting sites that I'd never have imagined to search for.

I've used it for about 4-5 months now and can't find any down sides to it. IE stays on your machine and FIREFOX can easily be uninstalled if you don't get on with it.

Enjoy.

P.s. It says in the T&B home page that T&B preffers Firefox.

-- September 24, 2006 2:19 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

To All:
I use foxfire and have only have had to enter the code a couple of time twice...
seems to be working OK at this date..

-- September 24, 2006 3:46 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here I sit in front of my computer on a close to another Sunday afternoon. From this site I have found out that Bin Laden is not dead; there is still no concrete date for an RV and Camilla is as cold as a dead body waiting to be claimed at the morgue. I will of course check back tomorrow.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 24, 2006 8:00 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Roger:

I am appauled by your cheap shots on the South and Southern women. Southerners are polite and hospitable. I'll bet when you come trucking through the South that noone mentions your rotten teeth and the fact that you do not use deodorant.

Everyone knows that poor hygeine is a trademark of Britains.

Go a little easier on us and we won't point out your shortcomings.

-- September 24, 2006 10:33 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

I'm not sure that Roger is a Brit but I'm pretty sure he stinks and has bad breathe. Maine reason he get's along so well with hair shirt.

-- September 24, 2006 11:48 PM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Wow, pretty slow today.

In Order to Make Foreign Investment Acceptable
23/09/2006
Source: Al-Sabah

It is normal for developed countries ((mostly the hostesses of foreign investments)) to think about the benefits of this investment in many ways: economical, social and mainly political. In addition to other aspects like the systems used for managing foreign capitals in a host country and the nature of activities and functions that these investing capitals agree to.

Foreign investment has many advantages like creating an additional income for the country which would be reflected on the national economy in many ways such as the wages of local workers that may exceed 25% of the volume of the foreign project's capital; there is also the direct tax ((20-25%)) and the profits after tax ((10%)).Yet, it has another side that we need to be cautious of and that is the mismanagement of this investment either by the state hosting it or by the investors and the foreign investing companies themselves.. So, the precautions are as follows:

•The nature of the foreign investment activity should not be similar to that of a local one. Otherwise, this will create an irregular and dishonest competition that will terminate the local industries originated by the private sector, in particular, or even the ones developed by the state.

•Caution from involving foreign investors in local industries that already have sufficient investment conditions inside the state (whether the were big or small projects)..Otherwise, it will only drain the human and material resources of the developed country (the host).

•The main purpose for any foreign investment is to gain profits; therefore, it is able to control the prices of the produced goods. This will be directly reflected on the final consumer ((the final victim)) of this apparently normal politics. Thus, either there should be no investment in goods that are in direct contact with the consumer's life or the state should deal with this defect through the regular ways or through adopting the local investment projects that have similar activities. Also, avoid taking up loans from well-known foreign financing sources like The International Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

•The hosting state should be cautious of involving in Arabic and foreign investments that have the form of far away dictations or do not serve the national interests.

•Legislator of the foreign investment law should either prevent the right to own the land where the foreign investment project is set or grant it for a specific period of time that does not exceed 50 years at the most. Afterwards, the ownership of land and project goes back to the state; unless, there is what is called reciprocation which means that the country of the foreign investor should grant the local investor the right to own the land and establish investment projects on it of the same kind and size.

•The terms of granting a license to the foreign investor for investing must serve the national interests in the first place. The legislator of such investment projects should look far into the future and not be confined to the current phase or a little beyond.

•Caution of leaving the foreign investor all alone making service or consumer projects which the state could carry out by itself. It is better to utilize foreign investment in carrying out projects able to create an additional income to the national economy as well as being technically high and too impossible to be done by local efforts.

•The legislator should distinguish between the local investor and the foreign one when issuing licenses to establish investment projects, unless the investing state in the hosting country does not distinguish between the two as well.

•Legislating too many investment projects' laws in one country may create an uneven investment opportunities among the regions of that country. This is normal due to their different natures, but it is quite incorrect because they oppose the laws of the central state. Therefore, one law is much better and it could be included some exceptional articles concerning some regions.

•Never give full freedom to the foreign investor because this will allow him to interfere with official performances of the state. Therefore, this freedom should be limited within the investment work only.

•Allowing the foreign investor to invest in sectors that do not affect the economy of the state or manipulate it. In other words, this investment should not include gas or oil sectors, for example.

•Never neglect the local investors and capital owners that are able to carry out high-cost investments. How ever, their deals with foreign investors must be submitted to a suitable form for both sides put by the state.

•Never let political parties and under any names to access the investment field, unless they are out of the decision authority.

Such procedures and adjustments require constitutional legislations. Even if that meant reconsidering the articles of the constitution, before issuing the law of foreign investment in the country.

Generally speaking, our country is capable of developing its economy through local projects of positive outputs. This is to provide a suitable atmosphere for local investment soon, with the help of partial or total reliability on foreign scientific technology that could be obtained through many ways known to the specialists.

-- September 25, 2006 12:06 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Well! I have the real Goods...
I have met Roger face to face in Lousianna when he and I crossed paths in our traveling. I can say for certain that he does not have bad teeth, bad breath, ...but he does have a weakness for La bread pudding covered with lots of bourbon..I never saw anyone drank bread budding juice from a flat plate before...also I do know why that part of the world he comes from remains neutral in certain arenas.. the other parts of the world had problems understanding their accent...they couldn't fiqure out if they said we will sit this one out or shove it up the old .......
But I must admit I was puzzled when I met him...as he strangely looked a lot like Camillia...then after I left I was able to put it together....I read she was was over in America giving her support for the trucking Industry..
Celebrities the things they do to hide their identity..

-- September 25, 2006 8:37 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Gang...

Just wanted to say that I am not sure where a gag order is in place but everyone in the sandbox that I contact all have internet and say they know of nothing impending on the Dinar front.

I am excited about my return and hope to post good news when I get there...

Outlaw

-- September 25, 2006 9:19 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Just some causes that create reality as we are seeing it
The Generals say the Iraqi Army is coming along just fine....the ground soldier have a different story... It seems recently our soldiers in a joint mission with the Iraqi soldiers had quite a problem with the latter...
The plan:
surround the area, set up road blocks to stop the escape routes and the americans did a house to house search...
The house to house search went well....the road blocks not so good....
First the Iraqi soldiers showed up late....second...they refuse to follow orders....third...their loyalty to their miltias was stronger than the government they served so they allowed the arm militias they were after to go through the road blocks loaded in vehicles...
It seems the soldiers that come from baghdad are now coming into contact more and more with the guys they grew up with during the security searches...this has put more stress on the individual soldier....thus you have many siding with the militias...
The US Soldiers stated, these Iraqi soldiers out of Baghdad are some of the worst they have seen...it is obvious a lot of them are not competent....the Iraqi soldiers appeared to working against the american soldiers as they also allowed some of the road barriers to be trucked off to the militia's strong hold ...in this case the iraqi soldiers had to be removed from the roadblocks and US soldiers set up to complete the mission...
One of the officers stated in reality here in baghdad you can not make a distinction between the Iraqi Shiite Soldiers and the religious militias....they have family members and family ties throughout these militias...their respect for their religion runs deeper than their respect for the newly formed government...this security crackdown is a joke...
One of the pressures is that when the soldier goes home for a visit the ARMY can not protect him from the militias...thus many die on leave...
Presently al-Sadr controls 30 parliament seats and 5 cabinet seats...
An attempt to move the Baghdad soldier to the north and the north soldiers to the south met with resistance....the soldiers refuse to serve away from their home territory...and it appears the Iraqi Army is not strong enough to enforce the soldiers to do so...
A request for 3000 Iraqi soldiers by a US General was declined as the Iraqi Generals could not get their soldiers to move to another area....

The question is with a strong Iraqi Army what do you think the chances of a newly formed government is of surviving without coalition support staying to be their backbone....?

Yep! me either!!!!

-- September 25, 2006 9:54 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Carl's post speaks to Iraq's long road to a federalist type government. It is unlikely any RV can occur until the security situation improves and a strong central government is in place.

The GoI must put aside tribal and ethnic loyalities for the good of the country as a whole (eaiser said than done). Until some fundamental changes occur inside the GoI we will continue to see the Iraqi Dinar held to its current value. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 25, 2006 12:05 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

I have been speaking with people that have told me similar stories with the exception that the Mahdi is usually log gone by the time they get there. This is the stuff that is now being addressed at the top levels. The problem Al-Sadr has is that even he would find his head on a pike within weeks of a US pullout. As one leader stated, it's foolish to act with weakness when you have such a strong position. And that is exactly what we have been doing until now.

-- September 25, 2006 12:56 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

YOU KNOW GUYS!
The Iraqi people need a leader with some real big cahoonas to first go get Sadr and string him up in the downtown public square kicking and screaming...then start publicly executing any police officer, soldier, army officer or public official that disobeys an order...
Sounds cruel...uncivilized....yes it does! but that unfortunately is apparently the only thing the iraqi people respect...
so give them what they want...a strong leader that has the moxie to put a strong government together...

I can no see why saddam had to treat some of them the way he did....they do not recognize anything else...
Damn! I can't believe I typed that...my frustration and disgust with the Iraqi leaders is boiling today...

-- September 25, 2006 6:10 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl, I agree with you. Many American soldiers come to the same conclusions. I read that in a good book, "Imperial Grunts". It's not politically correct to say what you did, but it's true. Civilized democracy took centuries to take hold in Europe. Why should it happen overnight in Muslim countries? At this stage of their social evolution, most Arab countries need a President Theodore Roosevelt approach. He's my favorite President. He was asked to explain his foreign policy. He famously replied, quoting a West African proverb, "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

-- September 25, 2006 6:35 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Thought perhaps you would all be interested in this article:

Published: September 25. 2006 3:00AM
Nation/World
Iraqi groups broker a deal
Sects agree to self-rule debate

September 25, 2006

Email this Print this FREE PRESS NEWS SERVICES
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Iraq's feuding ethnic and sectarian groups agreed Sunday to consider amending the constitution and begin debating legislation that could eventually allow the nation to be split into autonomous states.

A faction of Shi'ites and Kurds tried to pass such a proposal three weeks ago. But Sunni Arabs and some Shi'ite and secular lawmakers united to block the bill.

Sunnis fear such a split would deny them a share of Iraq's oil, which is found in the predominantly Kurdish north and the heavily Shi'ite south.

But they agreed to a legislative debate after all parties accepted a Sunni demand that a parliamentary committee be set up to study amending the constitution. The committee is to be named today.

The Shi'ite faction also agreed that any move for areas to break off would be delayed until at least 2008, easing fears that the Shi'ites would quickly split from the rest of Iraq.

Sunnis hope to win an amendment that would make it more difficult to establish autonomous regions. "The issue is just to consider it and go with the process," said Dhafir al-Ani, a leading Sunni lawmaker.

The committee will have four months to propose amendments, which then would have to be approved by a majority in parliament before being put to a public vote.

-- September 25, 2006 8:23 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi All,

Back, whatwegot, hygien bad teeth, Brits, southern woman.

No, I'm not a Brit , keep guessing.

No, I was born in Cincinatti and use my accent only to impress women.

My teeth are absolutely tip top, I have a $2700 invoice from my Mexican dentist in Tijuana to prove it.

I showered last Month, and I have changed underwear twice this year already, so I don't want to hear any complaints about my hygiene.

Carl, no you got it completely wrong, I was not drinking breadpudding from a flat plate, it was....well..you were right about the horses though, it was an old urin sample from a sick horse, that I was going to give to the vet, but it had been lying around for so long, as the horse died, so I thought I would not let it go to waist.

Regarding respect for the southern woman, absolutely.

There is no such thing as toothles, tattooed ladies serving in the Waffle House.

Better start holding in the reins before this is getting too wild.

Anyhow, Iraq, the Dinar... frustraiting is'nt it.

Endless squabble, no priority on the important stuff.

It shows what THEY consider important. From an outside western viewpoint this is so small and insignificant issues they are prepared to even die for.

Loyalty goes as far as the clan, how much Dinar you pay him or what kind of Islam he practices.

And there it ends.

The world must be very very small, in a bubble like that.

The awareness of how others beyond the horizon are affecting him is non existent, and is replaced by a kind of denial of reality where anything coming from beyon the bubble is a potential threat.

This was an issue we debated some time ago, and from any observation that I've seen, the idea to give the Iraqi man, (or the Middle East in general) another reality, is non existent. No military, or other program is in effect.

The information flow he is recieving is very strong from his local Iman, his tribe and his closest people in the same group.

The TV, Radio and newspaper are free, but from what I understand, Lance wrote, the local Iman is always in control over the local media, approve and dissaprove what they can or can not read, wach or listen to.

The crux is getting the man on the street in a position where he can see read and listen to what he wants.

It's this endless problems, they can't watch TV because there is no electricity, and there will be no electricity as long as it is sabotaged.

They can't get the oil revenues up because there is this endless sabotage and corruption of the oilfacilities.

They cant have any industry because water and electricity is always sabotaged. As long as they dont have jobs, they will sabotage things, but they need to stop sabotaging in order to get electricity and water so they can get those industries established, in order for them to get jobs.

If they can't be responsible enough to see how the dots are connected, someone have to take over the control and make sure the dots are connected.

To make it happen letting the Iraqis themselves trying to orchestrate it, well....I'm losing hope more and more.

If I was in the US administration, I would simply strongly consider the "unthinkable", take the country back. Put everything under US command, take over ALL the media, and start an offensive that involves kicking in so many doors that they will be happy and glad to take back the control themself.

If the Iraqis themself don't want to take on the militias, well, we will. and were not negotiating.

Every militia hotspot must be a battle field like Faluja had, when we took that town.

No compromise.

We must be in Full control over all TV and radiostations, to leave one babbling anti something in one station,is the same as leaving Goebbles in charge of the Radio after the Germany surrender.

Democracy is not freedom, Hitler got elected, as well as Hamas, it's only when it stands for freedom, it's worth protecting. Otherwise it's not worth squat.

The democracy found in Iraq, well I can't call it antisocial in the sense that it has aspirations to become someting dangerous for others or itself.

I think from my heart they are trying, but what they have is a mess, a soup of inefficency and confusion beyond belief.

I have full sympathy with that they have a hard time, after so many years of supression, but for heavens sake, enough is enough.

I hate the expression, "you have to try"..

It's well ment, but the end result of trying is...I tried.

When you try, it won't get done. The only thing you do when you try, is showing someone else that you are on it.

Either you do it or you don't.

They can form their culture and society the way they see fit, no problem, but they have to live up to expectancies, and responsibilites, put upon them by those that support them.

The US, Brittain, and the western world have invested life and money into their country, taken them out of the hands of a dictator, and set them on a course, where they can be truly free to have it their way.

I see it as such a betrayal, that they are sitting in their small little bubbles caring only for their little group of people, killing each other, and steal anything that is not bolted down, and if it is, they get a crowbar.

Allah is great, isn't he?

-- September 25, 2006 10:58 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

For you that doesnt know what a Waffel House is, especially for you European readers.

Waffle House is a franchise greasejoint, found in every exit on the freeway in the south, you get waffles, coffe, grits, and sandviches, and such stuff.

It's a chain that have it's own folklore about it, it is even sung about, in Country and Western songs.

Nothern states dont have them.

-- September 25, 2006 11:14 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Nelly B,

Ive got both AOL and Firefox. Problem are pretty constant with AOL, I do believe this is such a big server that any virus, cookie or spyware is written to go through and accept AOL. Firefox seem to go somewhat easier.

-- September 25, 2006 11:29 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

Ah ok, well, the info we have is that the area in and close to the "Green Zone" is the one in question.

The buddies you're talking with, are they close to that area or are they out in the boondocks?

-- September 25, 2006 11:40 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

question: i'm getting 1450:1, is that good, bad or average. . .

-- September 26, 2006 6:44 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Looks like a step in the right direction. When all the groups get their fair share of the pie...things will go faster....I hope!!

===============================================================================
Iraq's parliament agrees body to alter constitution
By Peter Graff and Mussab Al-Khairalla

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baghdad, 26 September 2006 (Irish Times)
Iraq's parliament has agreed to set up a body to draft constitutional changes, a key part of a breakthrough deal reached by the country's factions to end political paralysis and avoid civil war.

Iraq's new, US-sponsored political system has been stalled by wrangling over amendments to the constitution and autonomy for the oil-rich Shia heartland in the south, while the streets have grown ever more violent since December's election.

Breaking the deadlock at a time when US commanders fear a surge in violence through the Muslim holy month of Ramadan was a crucial test of Shia prime minister Nuri al-Maliki's efforts to sustain his four-month-old national unity government.

In the south of Iraq, British forces said they had killed Omar Faruq, described as a senior al- Qaeda figure who escaped from a US military prison in Afghanistan more than a year ago.

"I think the agreement is like a gift presented by parliament to the Iraqi people for Ramadan," parliament speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, a Sunni, said.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-26-09-2006&article=10722

-- September 26, 2006 10:57 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

This message has been on the Warka site for about two weeks now. Should be interesting when they get back on-line. Whatever they're doing it's being kept very quiet. It's part of the internationl banking network Iraq is trying to get going but can't get any more details. Anybody have news on this?

"Maintenance:
Internet Banking System is currently offline for upgrading and maintenance."

-- September 26, 2006 11:27 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Panhandler....

Thats a great rate you're getting. Some of the Dinar I bought while in Iraq went for 1350 per $1 but this was in the wild, wild, West boonies.

-- September 26, 2006 11:32 AM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Iraqi Central Bank to apply International Standards Concerni

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iraqi Central Bank to apply International Standards Concerning
Sufficiency of Capitals
26/09/2006
Source: Al-Sharq Al-Awsat

An official source in the Iraqi Ministry of Finance confirmed that Iraqi Central Bank will possibly approve the application of international standards concerning the sufficiency of capitals, according to the resolutions of the second conference held in Bazil.

The source added in a statement during the economic session, about the role of banks in the economic reformation process, held in the Ministry of Industry and Metals that Iraqi Central Bank is working fast to take an active role in the economic stability process in the country. The Bank is trying to dispense with some of mechanisms that were prevailing during the time of the ex-regime, especially lending governmental institutions. Therefore, there are serious studies about the possibility of starting and developing a governmental exchange market that will provide all institutions with cash fluidity as fast as possible. In addition, this will enable individuals and capital owners to find new types of guaranteed local investments and limit their running away outside the country.

The same source declared that Iraqi Central Bank is fully independent. It is exhorting great efforts to achieve a stable financial policy that will enhance Iraqi economy and rebuild it through several constructive steps.

The most important step among them is replacing the national currency. Old Iraqi currency was replaced on the 14 of January, 2004 through substituting 4 trillions of old Iraqi dinars by a new currency. The step had many advantages which greatly regained trust in Iraqi dinar and improved the exchange rate. The late approval to grant licenses to foreign banks is another important step to build an active and competitive banking sector in Iraq. In addition to holding a daily auction of foreign exchange for Iraqi Central Bank. The main purposes of this auction are to reduce extreme changes in the exchange rate which may happen suddenly.

The Bank, also, legislated a new law that gives it: complete legal independence, clear authorization to work on achieving stable prices and active monitoring authorities. It started utilizing the open market processes through selling and buying the treasury transfers in order to control economic fluidity and stabilize the exchange flow. The Bank approved a new law concerning commercial banks and this is a main step towards establishing a financial system works according to the criteria. Iraqi law of commercial banks will enhance the Iraqi trade and release the interest rates.

The complete and full release of interest rates on local financial devices (goods, deposits and exchange) is already operative. The bank considers this procedure as an important step towards the emergence of an efficient contemporary financial sector enables loan borrowers to make up their own decisions in stead of being chained by the instructions issued by Iraqi Central Bank.

The bank is now applying several projects. The most important of which is: the reframing and re-qualifying of governmental banks, applying a serious monitoring system and developing the local one, creating a complete united statistical work that covers all main sectors and finally starting a governmental exchange market.

I just found this on another site, Another on eof those pesky "New Currency Print" rumors. Has anyone else seen this and wish to comment

-- September 26, 2006 11:41 AM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

In paragraph 4, WHAT CURRENCY ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT???????

-- September 26, 2006 12:06 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Mark:

The New Iraqi Dinar.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 12:22 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Mark:

They are talking about the step already taken in 2004 to take all the Saddam and Swiss Dinars out of circulation by exchanging them for the New Iraq Dinar (NID) that we are currently holding and is in circulation at the present time.

This is no indication that there will be a reprint in the forseeable future.

-- September 26, 2006 12:43 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

THANKS ALL: I kinda had one of those moments, knee jerk if you will. I saw the date it was printed and thought they were talking about the "BREMMER DINARS". My BAD,
P.S: I'm putting the JACK back in the cabinet

-- September 26, 2006 12:52 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Any comments regarding Mary Lou's post?

In my opinion, if the nation splits into states with a strong central government investor's in the Iraqi Dinar will continue to see the country make progress toward an RV.

In contrast, if the country splits into seperate ethnic regions, where there is not a strong central government. Our investment will turn to zero.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 1:29 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Mark:

The New Iraqi Dinar is the Paul Bremer Dinar.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 1:32 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

10-4 ROB N.

I DO LIKE THE LAST SENTENCE OF THIS PARAGRAPH,
The main purposes of this auction are to reduce extreme changes in the exchange rate which may happen suddenly.
That Sounds GOOD.

-- September 26, 2006 1:52 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Mark,

Very interesting document , good find.

The confusing sentence here in paragraph 4 is the word "IS" instead of "WAS". Next sentence use past tense though, "HAD". They are in fact praising the current currency as being trustworthy.

From what I can see of this document, the CBI is creating an exchange market where lenders and borrowers can go, and dropping the old Stalinistic set up they have been living with, that any loan transaction have to be approved by "Big Brother", settomg their own interest rate. So it's up to the customer if he wants a 30% interest Credit Card type loan or a cheaper loan in Warka Bank, for example.

Also it states that CBI is getting into the state of being truly independent. Like the US Federal Reserve Bank. I can assume that the interest rates, being set free, will even though they are free, not go under the national reserve minimum %. Like the rates quoted and dictated by Greenspan here. Cheaper loans than that, and you have to borrow from grandma.

CBI is an independent bank, but on paper only, Government say, CBI do. But this is the document that shows that the bank is moving away and are beginning to take form as a truly government modern independent bank.

The exchange market they are talking about seem to me not to be a currency exchange market but they basically want to set up a market where all lenders and buyers can find any loan or invest any money into loans, quick and easy.

Also they are easing restrictions on loans, they dont have to have a government approval for a loan no longer, but can basically set up a loan/borrower contract, like here.

This is a great document, well done.

It shows that the CBI is rapidly moving into the direction of being a modern bank with modern practices, and are getting closer and closer to be integrated into the world banking system.

When that happens my friends, it means, Dinars are exchanged freely.

I'm very dissatisfied with the development on the ground in Iraq, the security situation and the complete inability to take decisive and prompt action, but I am very impressed with the rate of speed the banks are gearing up, reconstruct and are developing.

I'm trying to put some significance into Okie report about the computersystem being down for so long at Warka bank. Okie, I must ask you, are you completely unable to communicate with Warka? I'm trying to read something good into the long time the system being down, but also if I would have investment in the bank, I would for sure want to be able to communicate with them in one way or the other.

I dont think the banking industry in Iraq is a risk industry, on the contrary, on the ISX site the other week, I read a report that this is one of the most expansive areas in Iraq right now, and bank stocks was recommended.

Mark, great document, well done.

-- September 26, 2006 2:15 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I would say your investment is sound and safe.

First, the discussion is deffered to 18 months ahead into the future.

Second, if the are getting autonomous regions, still this doesnt mean that the central goverment in Iraq will cease and dissapear.

We have 50 states here in the US, with it's own Governor, laws and constitutions, that has nothing to do with the relevancy of the Dollar.

Very few countries have ONE centralized goverment and nothing else, almost any country you can point on on the map, have local goverments, smaller republics or states within the country. If they want to split up, thats what they want to do, they are talking about autonomous regions, they are not talking about splitting up into THREE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

-- September 26, 2006 2:31 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Roger....

All communications at Warka are functional, e-mail, phones, etc. but the portion of their site that requires an ID and password are temporarily shut down for maintenance and up-grade.
I'm a Systems Engineer by profession and to me that always means something positive is happening, especially the Up-grade part.

Their main site lists a lot of features that aren't implemented at this time. I think they, or their supplier, are installing and testing the full package that's advertised on the main site.

If my hunch is correct then what they're doing is....GOOD FOR US AND THE DINAR!!

-- September 26, 2006 2:44 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Some good news from www.iraqieconomy.org.

Cyprus to call off all Iraqi debts September 26, 2006 - Informational spokesman of Finance Ministry of Cyprus stated that his country has cancelled all its debts on Iraq, in order to confirm its continual support to reconstruction of Iraq, Iraq Directory reported.
The spokesman added that Iraqi Finance Minister and his Cypriot counterpart have signed a dual agreement in Singapore which included cancellation of one hundred percent of Iraqi debts to Cyprus

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 2:50 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

More good news from www.iraqieconomy.org

Calibre Energy to invest in Kurdistan - Iraq September 19, 2006 - Calibre Energy, Inc. announced that it has signed an agreement with Hawler Energy, Ltd. to participate in an Exploration and Production Sharing Agreement (EPSA) with the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) of Iraq, covering the Bana-Bavu structure, Portal Iraq reported.
Calibre will have a 10 percent participation interest. The agreement requests for an up front payment of $2 million, $2.5 million at first to work commitment and a $1 million success fee payable upon completion of the first well.
The Bana-Bavu structure is a 30 by 10-kilometer surface anticline and it is expected to contain primary oil reserves within the Triassic reservoir objective and secondary reserve potential in the Lower Cretaceous and Jurassic sections of the structure by Calibre.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 2:52 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Another article from www.iraqieconomy.org

into Iraqi fields September 21, 2006 - The Norwegian company, Norsk Hydro, one of Norway's largest oil companies is extracting crude oil from two wells it dug up in the northern city of Kirkuk to be the first western oil firm to venture into the Iraq, Azzaman reported.
Iraqi experts stated that the field itself has not reached its peak yet, and the massive field, which used to produce up to 1.5 million barrels a day in the 1970s, has the potential to raise output to similar rates.
It is worth mentioning that the Norwegian firm is currently producing maximum 10,000 barrels a day from the two wells it has dug. The Norwegians are planning to continue digging new wells in the hoping in order to lift up the production rates.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 2:53 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Yet another article from www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq to raise crude oil production September 25, 2006 - Iraqi Oil Minister announced that the government is planning to raise the production of crude oil to reach more than six million barrels per day by the year 2010, portal iraq reported.
The minister further added that the country is considering adopting a national plan to develop oil production, in order to be one of the leading exporting countries in the world.
It's worth mentioning that Iraq's three main oil refineries, Doura, Beiji and Shuaiba, are working at half capacity, processing a total of only 350,000 barrels a day, compared to about 700,000 barrels a day before the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 2:55 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Finally, from www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq may resume importing Australian wheat soon September 26, 2006 - Iraqi Trade Minister stated recently that Iraq may be able to begin purchasing Australian wheat shortly, since the two countries are close to coming to terms on a scandal that prompted Iraq to stop importing from Australia's AWB Ltd., Iraq Directory reported.
The Minster said that Iraq is increasingly able to rely on domestic wheat production, pointing out that wheat production there has more than doubled to about 1 million metric tons in 2006.
It is worth mentioning that president of the U.S. Wheat Association revealed recently that Iraq still has big import needs, and that U.S. exporters expect to compete with the Australian exporting companies.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 26, 2006 2:56 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Warka Bank wants to implement all, or a large portion, of the following system.

When the Dinar RV's I want Debit and Charge cards, with a high daily allowance, linked to my account.

===============================================================================
Our Integrated Banking Solutions

As our customer’s satisfaction is our ultimate objective, we are now implementing the latest banking solutions to offer our clients the best banking services according to international standards.

Waraka Investment Bank in cooperation with International Computer Systems (London) Ltd.- the mother company of Computer and Communications System – CCS Jordan - a turn-key solutions provider specializing in various business areas, in particular the banking and financial sectors- have implemented the BANKS System to achieve automation of Waraka Investment Bank services.

BANKS is an integrated banking solution implemented in hundreds of branches in 25 banks across three continents. Designed to meet the information processing and management challenges facing the banking and finance industry today, BANKS is web-enabled and comes with a comprehensive set of integrated functions covering the areas of Retail, Corporate and Investment Banking.
BANKS System allows the following added values to our clients:
- 24/7 availability of banking service.
- SMS-banking services
- Mobile banking services.
- Phone-banking services.
- Internet-banking services
- ATM & POS.
- Multi- Lingual system.
- Multi- Currency system.
- Customizable system – Clients can add modules at their own convenience.
BANKS System is a multifunctional banking system supported with the following modules:

Core Application Module:
- General Ledger
- Embedded Straight - through – Processing Features (STP)
- Account Maintenance ( All types of accounts in various currencies)
- Secret Customers
- Clearing (Inward / Outward)
- Central Clearing System
- Transaction Processing
- Exceptional Account Charges
- Buying / Selling of Foreign Currency
- Cheque Book Request / Ordering
- Post Dated Cheque Processing
- Signature Verification
- Inter-Branch
- Standing Orders
- Block Funds
- Account Restriction
- Stopped Cheques
- Bad & Doubtful Accounts
- Account Signature Diaries
- Accounts Payable / Receivable
- Exceptional Accounts Default Value Days
- Safe Deposit Boxes
- Passbook Printing
- Foreign Currency Revaluation
- Balance Sheet Production
- Utility Bill Payment
- Value Added Tax (VAT)
- Expense / Revenue System
- Automatic Loading for Bulk Transactions
- Black Listed Customers
- Account Managers
- Chart of Account Report Grouping
- Maintain Currency Rates and Cross Rates
- Maintain Teller / User Authorities
- Maintain Teller / User Password Parameter
- ATM & POS Interface
- Card Management System
- Swift Interface

Transfers Module:
- Inward Transfers
- Outward Transfers
- Direct Transfers
Bankers Draft Module
Accepted Draft Module
Traveler Cheques Sale and Stock Module
Purchased Cheques Module
Certified Cheques Module
Outstanding Issued Drafts Module
Foreign Cheques for Collection Module

Credit Facilities & Risk Management:
- Facility Group
- Facility Detail Group
- Customer Credit Facilities
- Facility Details Management
- Guarantors Management
- Collaterals Management
- Dynamic Facilities
- Temporary Facility
Trade Finance Module:

- Export Letters of Credit
- Import Letters of Credit
- Export Documents for Collection
- Import Documents for Collection
- Letters of Guarantees (Inward / Outward)

Loans Module:

- Normal Loans include Simple Rates and Compound Rates
- Flat Loans
- Housing Loans
- Army Loans
- Loans Against Local Bills (LLB)
- Loans Against Bills Discounted (LBD)
- Loans Against Trust Receipts (LTR)
- Discounted Loans
- Operating Lease
- Financing Lease
Discounted Bills
- Commercial
- Personal
Hire Purchase (Car Loans) Module
Local Bills for Collection Module
Advance Salary Services Module
Retail Purchase Module
Micro Finance Module
Project Finance Module
Litigation Cases Module
Management Profitability
Reporting (MPR) Module


Treasury Module:
- Dealing Room and Investment Modules
Dealing Room Module:
- Foreign Exchange (FX):
- Spot Deal
- Special Spot Deal
- Forward Deal
- Special Forward Deal
- Option Deal
- Swap Deal
- Money Market (MM):
- Placements
- Deposits
- Discount Deposit
- Margin Trading (MT):
- Spot
- Forward
- Hedge
Investment Module:

- Debt Securities:
- Bonds
- Treasury Bills
- Certificate of Deposits (CD)
- Floating Rate Notes (FRN)

- Equities

- Derivatives
- Future Contracts
- Option Contracts
- Swaps
- FRA (Forward Rate Agreements)
- Mutual Funds
- Forfaiting

Reuter Interface Module
MIS & Central Bank Reports Module
Phone Banking Module
Mobile Banking Module
SMS Banking Module (Push & Pull)
Internet Banking Module
Banks Workflow Management

-- September 26, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

Ok, got it, well that explains it, yes, I have a good hunch about this too. I can guess that a system is not down this long, but they probably started renovating and reorganizing it in expactancy of something big that was suppose to happen a certain date.

As usual in Iraq, things got postponed by some reason or the other, they are probably ready by now, but wont implement the computer changes until the magic date.

Unless they have to deinstall what they have, and run the old set up temporary, until it happens, but have a feeling that decisions are made ( and probably a lot of promises) that it will happen soon, so there is no idea to reconvert the computer system back again.

My take, ....a guess as good as anyone else, but I think that guess is pretty reasonable.

-- September 26, 2006 5:54 PM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Ran accross this article (8/3/06). Thought you might all want to take a look at it:

IMF Executive Board Completes First and Second Reviews Under the Stand-By Arrangement with Iraq
Press Release No. 06/175
August 3, 2006
The Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has completed the first and second review of Iraq's performance and a review of financing assurances under the 15 months Stand-By Arrangement. The arrangement is being treated as precautionary by the Iraqi authorities.

The Stand-By Arrangement in an amount equivalent to SDR 475.4 million (about US$705.6 million) was approved on December 23, 2005 (see Press Release No. 05/307).

In completing the reviews, the Board approved the authorities' requests for waivers of applicability of six end-June 2006 quantitative performance criteria as well as waivers for the nonobservance of the quantitative performance criterion on the revenue of oil-related state enterprises for March 31, 2006, the May 15, 2006 structural performance criterion on completing the final audit of the Central Bank of Iraq's 2005 financial operations, the structural performance criterion on adopting a fully detailed budget classification and chart of accounts by June 30, 2006, and the continuous performance criterion on external arrears on new borrowings.

Following the Executive Board's discussion of Iraq, on Wednesday, August 2, 2006, Mr. Takatoshi Kato, Deputy Managing Director and Acting Chair, stated:

"The Iraqi authorities have taken important and decisive measures to bring their economic program back on track, although continued progress in the authorities' reform efforts will remain critically dependent on an improvement in the security situation. Substantial efforts have been made to maintain fiscal discipline and control recurrent spending, despite the difficult environment, and the Central Bank of Iraq's tightening of monetary conditions constitutes an important step in the right direction. The timely adjustment of fuel prices is welcome, and the submission to the Council of Representatives of the revised draft law to liberalize private imports of fuel products restores to the agenda a key component of the authorities' program, and its early passage into law and implementation will be key to prevent supply bottlenecks in the market for petroleum products.

"Inflation remains, however, a serious source of concern. The ongoing violence and supply disruptions in the non-oil economy will undoubtedly continue to put pressure on prices. In this context, it is commendable that the Central Bank of Iraq stands ready to further tighten monetary and exchange rate policy to prevent high inflation from becoming entrenched. Fiscal policy should be supportive by keeping public sector wages and pensions in check.

"Structural reforms and institution-building will remain the cornerstone of the reconstruction process. It is encouraging that preparations for establishing an operational payments system are well advanced. However, much work remains to be done in other areas. A top priority is the reform of the pension law to ensure that Iraq's public sector pension system is sustainable over the medium term. Other key areas of reform include improvements in transparency in the government's payroll, improvements in public expenditure management, and work towards a successor to the Public Distribution System. There has been a welcome increase in targeted support for the poor, and reforms in this area will continue to be of central importance, including the development of a better targeted social safety net that will go hand in hand with the reduction in general subsidies.

The completion of bilateral negotiations with Paris Club creditors is welcome and progress has to be made toward resolving non-Paris Club official claims. The excellent progress in settling arrears with private creditors is also noteworthy. Good faith efforts to resolve the remaining arrears should continue.

Governance and transparency are essential for the authorities' program to succeed. The government's efforts to tackle corruption in the petroleum sector are therefore welcome," Mr. Kato said.

-- September 26, 2006 11:09 PM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Hey, I have a question for you ISX people. It appears the Bank stocks are the big ones. Could someone break down a why and maybe suggest a few others?

-- September 27, 2006 2:13 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The Banks in Iraq are taking some very positive steps towards modernization....just remember economics 101....follow the money!!

============================================================================

September 26, 2006

Banking in Kurdistan

The Globe

Muhammad Sheikh Fatih

Security and stability in the region is being accredited with allowing the development of a banking system.

"I used to have many loans from different banks, which caused many of my projects to be delayed," says 58-year-old Kamal Haji Saeed, who has been working in the construction industry for 21 years. "However, in the last year, a lot of transactions through government and private bank accounts have occurred. People are more aware of how to use banks and the security situation has helped to encourage investment in banks in Kurdistan."

This view is shared by Ali Muhammad Abdullah, director of Kurdistan's general bank: "You will find a huge difference between the way people dealt with banks in the past and now. Since the overthrow of the Baathist regime in 2003, people have regained trust in banks. In 2004, private banks began providing services to companies and contractors to make their work easier, for example, through offering loans. In the past, only state banks could exchange currency and deal commercially, which limited the market."

Soran Hassan, director of Suleimaniya's Waraka Bank, says that private banks can now provide services to people and companies with greater efficiency: "The services are carried out very quickly and takes less time. We have had a huge impact on the market and the economic development of the region. We are hoping to expand our services in the future, and build on the trust that our customers increasingly have in us. People are choosing to save their money in our banks because they know that if it is lost, they will be compensated."

Baku Bank's director Muhammed Amin also believes the growth of private banks in the Kurdistan Region is a result of their success in gaining people's trust and providing reliable services, particularly to businesses.

Although some banks are operating along Islamic principles, others are charging interest at 12%. Interest rates are charges at higher rates in state banks (13%), making private banks the obvious choice for businesses borrowing money. Private banks (9%) are also able to offer higher rates for savings accounts than state banks (6%).

Many Arabs, fleeing the violence in Iraq's central and southern regions, have also chosen to open bank accounts in Kurdistan.

Saad Saeed, an engineer from Samarra, recently opened a bank in Suleimaniya's Rafidayn Bank. "I put my money in the bank to protect it," he explains.

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc926102.html

-- September 27, 2006 8:59 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Boy! Ramadan sure has really slowed the activity on the T & B really slow. Its as though I am watching paint dry.

Any speculation concerning the country decision toward federalism or toward independent ethnic and tribal proviences?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 27, 2006 2:24 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

I read on another forum of a 20 million Dinar loan to members of the Iraqi parliment. Do I have this right? Can someone in the know clarify as to what these loans are for?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 27, 2006 3:16 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Rob N.

Things HAVE been slow.

I think the paint may be a little dryer now.

I have not been in the sandbox for Ramadan but have been during other religous holidays.

Those who are celebrating don't typically come to work.

I guess it takes coming to work to make things happen which generates info.

I haven't read anything new today.

My latest NID purchase just arrived.

-- September 27, 2006 3:22 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Chris:

Thanks for the reply. Do you mind me asking who your source for NID is?

My next purchase will be 5 to 7 million, so I am looking for a good source with a good price.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 27, 2006 3:35 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

ROB N. I think this is what your talking about, I found it on another chat group.

The first political : 20 million dinars bank loan to the members of the House of Representatives

Translated version of http://h...n/ (On the left, click on the Economic page, 4th down)

Zubaidi discussed with the charge d'affaires of Lebanon financial effects between the two countries
Baghdad - the Samurai
The Finance Minister Baqer Jabr Al-Zubaydi bank Rafidain and Rashid granting members of the House of Representatives a cash advance of 20 million dinars each Vice ensure that their salaries deducted monthly installments over 36 months, as discussed with the Lebanese Chargé d'affaires consultant Nawaf financial effects between the two banks.

He said banks adviser in the Ministry of Finance had been instructed to various branches of government banks Rafidain and Rashid implementation of directives by the Minister of Finance.
The actions of bank lending, said the distribution of 140 members of the House of Representatives of the branches of the Rafidain Bank, 135 members of the Rasheed Bank.
On the other hand, Research and Finance Minister Baqer Jabr Al-Zubaydi with the Chargé d'affaires Lebanese financial consultant Nawaf effects between the two banks.
According to the "morning" an official source at the Ministry of Finance
He added that the two sides had agreed during their meeting in Baghdad yesterday to resolve all the obstacles to the work of banks in both countries to serve the interests of the two fraternal .
The source added that the Lebanese Chargé d'affaires expressed during the meeting expressed his thanks and gratitude to the position of the Iraqi government in support of the Lebanese people during the Israeli aggression.

It sure sounds like a little padding of the pockets to me. Hopefully an R.V will soon follow.

-- September 27, 2006 5:25 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Mark:

Thanks. On another forum one poster claimed this would prevent the RV since repayments were to be deducted from the representitives pay check. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 27, 2006 5:40 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Rob N

This is my source for NID. It's not the cheapest on the net but they take credit cards and they are reliable and fast.

The currency has the strip, water marks and serial numbers.

While I was in the sand box somebody pulled off a new currency heist but the currency didn't have any serial numbers so I always look for those.

http://www.newiraqcurrency.com/home.asp

-- September 27, 2006 5:45 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

OH MAN, we had such an activity just a couple of weeks back, now it seems like a vacation.

All the buzz about the Dinars, now it seems like we have a feast when someone can dig up a document over a board meeting in Kuala Lumpur.

Is it Ramadan?

Are those guys taking a month long vacation when Ramadan is on?

Well, the whole of Europe shuts down for a month when it is vacation time, but they say straight out, "closed, on vacation".

Guess it comes out to the same thing over there in Iraq.

Only country that does'nt shut down seems to be USA and Japan. Well China might be in there somewhare.

Tim Bitts, tell me, in Canada, are they going the Europen way, and shut down Canada when it's vacation time?

Mexico, and south is constant siesta, but the Brits are running a bit more than the rest of Europe in vacation time, but not much more.

Ok, seems like we have hit a timewarp, a doldrum where there is not even a breeze. Just got to sit out the Ramadan then, before anything can start to even happen over there.

Muslim siesta.

Chris,

I checked out the site where you want to buy the Dinars, I must say they are extreemly expensive. I would recommend SafeDinars, if you insisit on going through a dealer. You get a cashiers check, they send it over night, you can open the envelop, count it and inspect the currency before you hand over the cashiers check to the carrier.

However, nowdays there are so many banks opening up Dinar sales, I would go that way. Chase is pretty much talked about here on this site, and you will get a lot of info just by scrolling back. Wells Fargo seems to open up as well, check with them also. I would go with a bank as a first choice if it was me.

-- September 27, 2006 11:08 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N, Mark,

I read this thing over and over and it is a very confusing article.

Lebanon and Iraq are mentioned intermingled with this report, and really it isn't clear if it is the representatives of Lebanon or the representatives of Iraq, that is getting a 20 mill Dinar loan. It's not really a big loan, about 12-13.000 Dollar.

I'ts amuzing that some on another forum have an idea that this will prevent an RV.

It is apparently an arrangement for the representatives to take an advantage of getting a loan, (if it is in Lebanon or Iraq, dont know).

There are millions of different ways we can take advantage of loans, if we are affiliated with something. military study loans, Union credits, reversed morgages, and about a zillion other ways.

If Greenspan, wants to , for example change the interest rate, in exactly what way would a teachers association loan given to three hundred teachers in Alabama got to do with it?

Its like, ...we cant buy a house, because my aunt have ulcers.

No worries regarding this issue and and RV.

-- September 27, 2006 11:41 PM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to outlaw: were you at lsaa, and if so did you work with blackbird, maverick and jarhead, if so, i still work with blackbird and maverick, jarhead met his demise with his big mouth. . .but is alive and well in texas

-- September 28, 2006 12:57 AM ∞

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helhanan wrote:

I want to invest in the iraqi dinar can any body tell me about:

http://www.dinar-sale.com

thanks.

-- September 28, 2006 3:09 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Helhanan,

Looked up that site, cant read it, is that Hebrew? I think it is, I have heard that Dinars can be bought in Irael nowdays.

I'm not aware of the Dinar sale outlets in Israel, but evidently this is one site. An Israeli Dinar dealer.

Just check him out, read the whole site, if you read hebrew.

A word of caution, check and see if he sits on the Dinar, and will send you straight, overnight, this seems to be ther safest dealers around here in the US. Practices varies, from VISA to cashiers check.

If this is a dealer that takes your money, then he goes and buy Dinars with it, bring it home, send you the Dinar and takes his cut. the risk is that you will buy the dealers Dinars with your money, if the Dinars are revaluating during the process.

Also, heart to heart, greed is good, but dont get more Dinars than you can afford to lose.

The Dinar ride is long periods of boredom interluded with nailbiters.

Iraq is a two word definition.

Iraq = VERY RANDOM.

Good luck.

-- September 28, 2006 3:38 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Panhandler,

Outlaw was packing up and said his bye byes, a couple of days ago, heading for the sandbox.

He will be there, I believe he said , around the 5th, this coming month. He said he will post from there when he gets there.

-- September 28, 2006 3:43 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to Roger: thank you sir, we'll keep a light on for him. .

-- September 28, 2006 5:34 AM ∞

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MARK wrote:

ROGER, ROB N.
This is a confussing article, I'm wondering if the translation is where it's screwed up. Not Sure. It look's like IRAQ: maybe trying to set it's self up in the region as a LEADER??? Lending money to fellow Arabs in need. The way it's written, I'm not sure if it's IRAQ'S Parlament of Lebanon's. I'll pass along any info I get from the other forum. Not alot of talk on this one.

-- September 28, 2006 7:57 AM ∞

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MARK wrote:

CORRECTION: That should be IRAQ'S OR LEBANON'S Parliment. Key word, OR.

-- September 28, 2006 8:55 AM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

This may sound a little out there, but the following article coupled with the 20 mil Dinar seems a little weird.
Baghdad Governorate Council voted to develop hand freedom

(Voice of Iraq) - 28-09-2006 | This issue was sent to a friend

Baghdad Governorate Council voted to develop hand freedom
Council held a meeting under the chairmanship of the Baghdad governorate certain Sadir during which the vote on the introduction of hand freedom they contain a large number of the population and need for services.
A statement issued by the Council that the area of freedom belonging to the city of Karbala, The Council will address maintaining the cabinet for approval.
The statement added that the Council was to be the Nahrawan hand of an independent cities in the vast area and large population, in addition to the formation of a committee to maintain discipline particularly's accounting negligence of the members of municipal councils.
He pointed out that the allocated sum of 10 million dinars to the Committee of Sports and Youth teams for the purpose of supporting youth and rehabilitation arenas.
Radio Tigris

What kind of training/sports park will 10 million Dinars build, (at today's rate)????
that might buy a couple of soccor balls and a basketball hoop.

-- September 28, 2006 1:10 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Does ANYONE know what was said at the news conference?

-- September 28, 2006 4:35 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Terri:

What news conference?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 28, 2006 4:54 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Article from CNN:

Military official: Iranian millions funding insurgency
POSTED: 3:36 p.m. EDT, September 28, 2006
Adjust font size:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A Shiite Muslim militia involved in the warfare between Sunni and Shiites in Iraq has received "millions of dollars" and an assortment of weaponry from Iran, a senior U.S. military official says.

The official said Iran -- which is overwhelmingly Shiite and largely Persian -- tries to spread its largess to other militants as well, but can wield only so much influence throughout Iraq -- which, while predominantly Shiite, is largely Arab.

He said Iran is not trying to fuel civil war in Iraq, but rather is trying to make sure it retains some influence with whichever group comes out on top in Iraq.

The official, who asked to remain anonymous, briefed reporters Wednesday about the conflict in Iraq. A transcript of that briefing was issued Thursday. (Watch why the U.S. strategy may fail in Iraq -- 1:45)

A good deal of the briefing involved the Mehdi Army, or Jaish al-Mahdi, the militia of the powerful Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

The group, which has power bases in the Shiite south and in Baghdad's Sadr City, has gained in political influence in the past year, with visible presence in the Iraqi government.

Asked how much money Iran has given the Mehdi Army this year, the official said, "I don't have a good estimate, but I'll tell you, it's in the millions of dollars."

The official said that high-grade military explosives and specialized timers are among the "boutique military equipment" moving from Iran into Iraq.

Some of the equipment is of the same type that Hezbollah, an Iranian-backed Shiite militia, used against Israeli forces in Lebanon during the summer, the official said.

The origin of the weapons was easy to discern because of Iranian markings on it, he said. Because Iran maintains tight control over armaments, he said, shipment of the weapons into Iraq had to involve "elements associated with the Iranian government."

The official said Iran wants "control of surrogates" in Iraq, not an easy task because Iraqi Arab nationalist groups, not pro-Iranian groups, have more grass-roots support.

Iran has "only has a window of opportunity" before historic animosities between Arab Iraq and Persian Iran prevail, he said.

Thanks,

Rob

-- September 28, 2006 5:08 PM ∞

---

Terri wrote:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iraqipresidency.net%2Findex.php%3Flanguage%3Darabic&langpair=ar%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
A press notice

September 28, 2006

To the media all
Call your attention to the fact that the Iraqi satellite will, today, Thursday, 9-28-2006 ten p.m. (22:00) according to local time for the city of Baghdad, an interview with His Excellency the President of the Republic, Jalal Talabani conducted with him yesterday, 9-27-2006, in Washington.

We would like to draw the attention of all media that the Iraqia Satellite channel will broadcast an exclusive interview today, Thursday 9-28-2006, with HE President Jalal Talabani Baghdad at 22:00 local time.
The interview was done yesterday in Washington.

-- September 28, 2006 5:11 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

More than 7,000 security personnel sacked for ‘corruption’ September 27, 2006 - The Ministry of Interior has fired more than 7,000 of its employees for involvement in ‘corruptin.’
It is the largest purge in the ministry following accusations that Iraq’s newly formed security forces are more corruptive than counterparts under former leader Saddam Hussein.
The purge comes in the aftermath of U.N. reports accusing the ministry’s organs and forces of massive human rights violations.
Brigadier-General Ahmad Hashem, in charge of the ministry’s internal affairs, confirmed the purge.
There are fears that the purge was done on sectarian grounds as the minority Muslim Sunnis say most of the ministry’s forces belong to the opposing Shiite Muslim groups.
Some of the ministry’s forces have been blamed for large-scale atrocities reported in Sunni-dominated areas.
Hashem would only say the sackings were made after the involved personnel were found guilty of maladministration and corruptive practices.
He claimed some of the officials fired had embezzled tens of millions of Iraqi dinars.
Hashem did not say whether the purge covered elements in the ministry who were reportedly involved in human rights violations and violence against the Sunnis.
But he said the purge included high-ranking officers some of them carrying the rank of lieutenant-general.
Despite the seriousness of the allegation on the basis of which the sackings were made, it is apparent that none of them would face prosecution.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 28, 2006 5:12 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Regarding the speach.

I've read it, nothing about RV.

Go to the posting Terri gave above. Click on the link and go to the translated version of the speach.

-- September 28, 2006 5:48 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

For your Dinar purchases-this is where I - and those I have recommended it to - purchase our Dinars from. Everyone has been satisfied and the prices are reasonable ($760 per Mil + $19 handling fee).

http://www.gidassociates.com/

-- September 28, 2006 10:08 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

It seems as though T & B has come to a halt. I cannot let today go without posting something.

So, is Ramadan over beginning tomorrow? How is President Bush going to heal the rift between karzai and Musharraf? I think the healing of this rift would certainly expedite the stamping out of the insurgency in Iraq. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- September 29, 2006 4:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

It's the Ramadan siesta.

Perhaps we all lost a bit of some poop, when we expected something to happen by the end of last month, early this month.

As usually over there, things have to take about ten times more time, in order to accomplish anything.

There is aaaaalways complications.

Things that is good for the Iraqi economy, security, and the welfare of the country, must wait until they have killed each other a little bit more.

Frustrating, and in the middle of it all, they took holiday for a month.

Oh Well.

-- September 29, 2006 7:35 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Roger!
Its going to be awhile babe! Too much in the air at this period of time...
Those guys are starting to remind me of the 1920'S comedy movies called "KEY STONE COPS"

-- September 29, 2006 8:32 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Key Stone Cops, no can't say I saw that one.

I can imagine though, Laurel and Hardy trying to move a piano, whatever they do, they get it all wrong.

I can picture me The Three Stooges, they way the interact, giving each other a smack or an eyepoke. Thats how I see the Iraqi negotiations taking place.

-- September 29, 2006 10:19 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N,

No the Ramadan is one lunar month, the time it is over is actually if I have understood this right, when the waxing moon will show it's first cresent next time.

Sunnis and Shiias are divided on exactly when it will start though. Last Friday or last Monday depending on what faction you're with.

-- September 29, 2006 10:26 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

A lot of strange things are going on right now. Why would they do a curfew for just a few days? Any news on this?
================================================================================
POL-IRAQ-CURFEW
Iraqi cabinet imposes curfew on Baghdad Friday through Sunday

BAGHDAD, Sept 29 (KUNA) -- The Iraqi cabinet decided on Friday to impose an unexpected full curfew on vehicles and civilians in the capital.

The cabinet did not specify the reason behind the curfew which would begin today and end on Sunday Morning.

Meanwhile, the leader of the Iraqi Accord Front MP Adnan Al-Dulaimi said that his house was searched by US troops who charged that Al-Dulaimi was hiding weapons.

On the other hand, Iraqi military spokesman Qasim Al-Mosawi told KUNA that Iraqi and US forces received information concerning Al-Dulaimi's illegal operations.

Al-Mosawi stated that the forces did not search the house or arrest any of the Iraqi MP's body-guards. The Iraqi MP had diplomatic immunity; therefore, the mission was aborted, Al-Mosawi pointed out. (end) mhg.

gta

-- September 29, 2006 11:06 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

My take is that this is a security thing, I do believe that there is a shakeup going on in the security forces.

A figure I saw, up to 7000 police reported fired, some big police chiefs, also.

The deathsquads have been linked far too many times with the police, police uniforms seems to be involved more than not in the kidnappings and killings.

I think this is part of that cleanup.

-- September 30, 2006 12:36 AM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Okay, it's in the news now. Everything you are seeing is 100% linked with trying to clean up the corruption and pro-militia forces of the Iraqi police and military. As Roger put it, security related. I was told they were going to issue the "clean it up or we'll cut your funding" ultimatum. I was curious to see IF they would follow through and it appears we have. There is a strong initiative to clean up Baghdad so I expect that curfew is linked to that though I have no inside on that one. I know I have friends who are back doing house sweeps in the area. Keep in mind, when you hear the press mention our forces trying to eliminate Iranian supported militias, you can pretty much substitute the words Mahdi militia. We are not attacking Mahdi or Al-Sadr, but as one General said, don't screw up and we won't be kicking in your door. (Paraphrasing) Keep tuned, more to come on the escalation of pressure to force the Iraqi leaders to end the death squads and at least quell the corruption.

-- September 30, 2006 4:50 AM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

Please forgive me, but the following article is very long: BUT, it is positive. I found it on my other Forum.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alsharqiya.com%2Fdisplay.asp%3Ffname%3Daboutus%5C2006%5C008.txt%26storytitle%3D&langpair=ar%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Unemployment In Iraqi Affairs
Report : Amir Hasson on
Introduction : memory Bahjat
Comment : Ali Mohsen

Report : Welcome Dear viewers, in the Iraqi inputs, break observers to the happenings Alamurvi Iraq believe that the welfare and prosperity of the Iraqi economy will start first in overcoming all obstacles and difficulties which may face government Elected to overcome the difficult steps reflect us to a new stage of advancement and construction Every government program would boost economic activities in a resource-rich country like Iraq oil in addition to other resources such as agriculture, industry, tourism and other resources. if we have to seek the government to find solutions to the remnants of the difficult era in which this economy than spending on wars. Nearly a decade of economic sanctions. and also make up this episode in the last three years following the occupation, and change the volume and Ziad unemployment and the transition Perhaps others to the system programmer Socialist long long decades to a free accompanied by a clear deterioration in the security and services.

Comment ...
Iraq is characterized by wealth, mainly oil, which is one of the first countries producing and exporting, including possessed of a strategic reserve of this wealth, in addition to that enjoyed by the geographical location of the center not to mention the Tigris and Euphrates rivers which provide fresh water and drinking water and a fertile ground unfit for cultivation as well as a wealth of other like sulfur, phosphate and other minerals not forget another resource is religious tourism civilian in Iraq, where many of the holy religious sites and archaeological areas, which were also attracted to a financially from the thousands of visitors and tourists every year is different corners of the planet.

Spokesman ...
Already Iraq's considerable resources and a great potential and Aiaoz Iraq absolutely nothing in the way of economic development and also suffers from extreme poverty, we find these things, lack of resources, lack of skills and poverty in other countries but, unfortunately, we see it more economically advanced of our beloved.

Comment ...
Manifestations of economic growth is apparent in Iraq after the nationalization of oil in 1972 until the beginning of the 1980s of the last century as the country has entered a fierce war with the state of Iran to stopping the wheel of development and construction, the siege imposed on Iraq by the United Nations due to the entry of Iraqi troops into Kuwait, the beginning of the 1990s and since that time, the Iraqi citizen of a tough economy suffering passed the worst period for the level of inflation in the Iraqi dinar to the detriment of the economy directly and continue to decline in the economy even after the occupation of Iraq Webb Afterward subject to conditions of stability between them.

Spokesman ...
Economic advancement is linked to the availability of a combination of factors, most important of these factors need for the accumulation of capital, Mali the need for capital is the absence of such capital can not make any new investments. We must open the door to foreign investment, But opening the door to foreign investment must be unconditional and specific sectors in which the state wants to play.

Comment ...
A strong economy is necessary for the state to build programs needs to invest seriously and imports of wealth and put them in the straight.
· Report : So Dear viewers, and you are welcome to Mr. Jabr Al-Zubaidi, the Iraqi Minister of Finance welcome your professor in the program.
· Zubaidi : Hello, and Welcome.
· Report : beginning Siadjeh minister will ask whether the Iraqi economy, relying only on imports of Iraqi oil and other imports absent Iraq's natural resources and many installations can be used for Iraq?
· Zubaidi : In the name of God the Merciful, of course, undoubtedly the current Iraqi economy over the past fifty years or more is one-sided economy depends on oil sales and thus inherited a sound economic policy-it started visas elected government in a far-reaching policy over the next four years is a five-year plan to transform Alaghtassa d to the multi-faceted Mthlath in tax policy and not linked to inherited policy or taxes or customs charges that the Iraqi economy as well as the development of local industry, including supplementary Aloztneh and other supplements, So I say we need time to move from reliance on oil, or 97% of Iraq's budget for the year 2000-5000 and six ratios to God less than the 70th% in the next four years.
· Report : So you now you change what In the current tax system What is different in this system?
· Zubaidi : this system, when it inherited the ministry is based solely on the staff and some deductions are limited to a very limited extent the terms in a meeting with one of the officials in taxes and general manager and directors of departments in taxes when the stated figure, which comes from taxes crop I said that the supermarket in Europe possible to obtain this amount, Iraq can not a when you get 28 two million such a meager amount and very little so ashamed that the rights quotes. For example, the mobile phone companies have three major companies get huge profits very similarly popular sell us the air, talking in the air and we sell dollars and go to their pockets and this is something good to contribute to invest in Iraq, but there must be a share of the citizen through a tax guide us resolutely to these companies and asked them to submit complete records on what they get from the profits.

· Report : There are other companies since the beginning of their entry in Iraq?
· Zubaidi : I will turn to ... Complete records even begin to accounting, I will not allow the marginal tax in the new Iraq and today the tax in the whole world, when you go to Europe controlled until the President of the Republic. The tax basis of the work and the economy of major countries today, the tax can not shirk from any human being, We have limited staff and we began to take a portion of their salaries, but the commercial sector and investment and not say in the meeting because we Snfajie these companies also Vjana mobile phone companies who did not expect to attend the official tax records and hold them, but asked him to go to the main computer to know how many calls per day, how much n outrage taxes. These taxes help the Iraqi economy so as not to be one-sided and obtain additional funds supporting the Iraqi economy. I believe that the current law Alastthmaler who will read the second reading in the Economic Committee, which I am the Deputy Chairman and brother Dr. Barham and members of the Minister of Trade and Minister of Oil and the Office of Financial Supervision and will finish the second reading and hoist to the Cabinet even Aghervi the House of Representatives, the Council of Ministers, I think it is CNN Khtlv God.
· Report : Yes, Mr. Minister, also developed strategic future studies for the advancement of the Iraqi economy listening and watching together and colleague memory Bahjat authorized Dear viewers, the memory of our colleague and Bahjat meeting with Aldectormahdi Hafiz.
· Introduction : Thank you, welcome Emir Dear viewers, and we welcome the visiting deputy in the parliament and former minister of planning Aldectormahdi Hafiz Welcome to you.
· Hafiz : Welcome to you.
· Introduction : 50th-page report cited by the Emir colleague in the two thousand and five entitled : strategic national development from 2005 to 2007 Why has this report?
· Hafiz : this is the truth and national development strategic document requested by the donor states and institutions in order to determine the priorities and sectoral plans in Iraq so that they can identify their financial identification of this plan and the reality is the development of the first version, which was published in the year two thousand and four and presented to a meeting in Tokyo in Aktau Mainland two thousand and four. The study is based on the new developments and changes in different sectors, and became a guide for the development of sectoral policies, but regrettably this program, so to speak, it was possible to achieve all the desired goals due to the security situation in the country had deteriorated so egregiously very hampered projects designed and submitted and approved and the availability of Ha money and the second reason that the donor countries themselves because of this and other factors may Matnat to provide the necessary aid, for example, say that some donors began to feel Iraq has won new financial resources due to high oil prices and that it is able to provide a portion of these funds to reconstruction in Iraq. These factors collectively had soured Jdiba in default, which took place in the implementation of all projects.
· Introduction : Dr. Mahdi in your opinion what are the immediate treatments, which Abroz taken by the government to improve the per capita income?
· Hafiz : This issue is directly linked to the improvement of income, the economic factor is the key element in improving the quality of life and raise the standard of living and those running primarily in the volume of unemployment in the country. Now in Iraq, there are approximately two million jobless people annually and is almost two hundred thousand people to the labor market must provide two hundred thousand jobs annually Caspian Sea to the existing unemployment, if the Iraqi forces workforce of about seven million are unemployed, including two Mloin any 30% this very serious problem for the economic situation and living for Iraq, in addition to this there has been a deterioration of services and, alas, the deterioration of services amounted to a very large extent.
· Report : Welcome Dear viewers, and once again we continue our conversation with you Mr. statement Jabr Al-Zubaydi, the Iraqi Minister of Finance, Mr. Minister, we return once again to the ages, this important topic and you talked about two billion or more to activate something of infrastructure and service throughout Iraq. We want real ages when Esibda and finance reconstruction?
· Zubaidi : Construction is to build the first two parts of infrastructure that is lacking in Iraq for example, the fact of drinking water in Basra circulating in the pipes of asbestos, Today, asbestos in the world since nearly forty years ended, it was found that cause cancer, This model of the infrastructure destroyed in Iraq and therefore, there are more than two billion and 2 billion of these earmarked directly to the provinces but the amounts allocated to ministries. This kind of reconstruction to drink citizen drinking water and sewage to go to their places to get rid of them and prayed to the streets of the citizen to reach his car safely this is not the real ages ages rightful I point being made is that you establish refineries at lightning speed, so that no imports of petrol and oil is able to give it to any company. There are many companies met me and say we are ready in two years that Anbqi the problem of electricity in Iraq even begun in this since the beginning of what we have nothing left to worry and all of this because of the law, "the investment law."
· Report : What other investment law?
· Zubaidi : is the need to be debated and I Penny Pink spoke at the Council of Ministers and to the brothers and, frankly, we are still possess mental socialism can not leave with these substances could be Gadrtne I am because I lived on the 20th Ssne abroad and toured and read and Basle dealer, I do not believe in socialism mentality that wants the state to send the n supermarket. The state can not be to sell oil, kerosine, gas, which brings wheat and rice this is not reasonable. The state must be directed to the major strategic industries, such as oil and minerals from the ground, we are now in another world, We have oil wells drained from the neighboring countries and we are watching do not have one go and put the oil wells to withdraw from the dome between the two countries, and many of the examples I say that we have the problem of inflation and must chart the financial policy of Iraq therefore you before increasing inflation, which reflected negatively on the citizen and the citizen feels directly b told in an indirect and thus reduces the citizen who is inflation. We now before this study in the preparation of the budget 2000-5000 and seven Why work on the issue and the issue of salary inflation and how to deal with income and tax rate. the study does not promise you that settled overnight, but the creation of God in the long future, we find that the employee or the Gulf tends to work in the private sector rather than to go to the government.
· Report : So, Mr. Minister, we stand and watch this present report on the situation Alaghtassadaraghi and put the Iraqi people and the size of existing unemployment when the Iraqi people. Dear viewers, and stopped short.

Comment ...
What to see Sobh, a new day begins even Iraqis daily journey Between economic crises and the search for job opportunities amid unemployment is a phenomenon to weigh on the daily details of a citizen in an attempt to support his family away from want and need.

Residents gathered to rent workers.
Sitting from morning to afternoon waiting for the work and go home without him, from six to five in the afternoon there was no work and we Sahabin Sahabin families and children and call on the government to provide job opportunities for these young people seated here.

Comment.
Business activity of the unemployed work is for many of them to waste their energies and their minds are supposed to be utilized in many areas of nation-building in posts in the level of their possessions potential.

Citizen out of work.
We unemployed for what? Why not provide the opportunities for the unemployed? Secondly we graduates Why do we provide the steadfast job as certificates and scientific progression?
Citizen out of work.
We are working day and month sit. Only relatives and knowledge Itainon Why?

Another citizen out of work ...
Our fill of promises and we are sitting here young and old, sitting in rented houses and must pay rent and we have families and we do not have work.

Comment ...
Questions suffering is on the table from interested citizens, as it will make its own contribution is to take the government seriously ago.

· Report : Welcome Dear viewers, once again, Mr. Minister of Finance, unemployment in Iraq, the volume of unemployment and inflation increased and you stated that the increase in inflation and whenever we ask is responsible for the salaries of state workers in the field say that the Iraqi officer was paid three thousand dinars, and now more than 200 thousand dinars, and as has become a mantra. Now the unemployment soar, and have negative effects on the livelihood of the Iraqi individual, it also had negative effects on the political situation in general how to answer these details?
· Zubaidi : I think it was the first alliance is a lot of institutions, the army and the Interior and the police and some institutions of the former regime resolved this way, the reason for a large part of the problem, that we are addressing that in the Ministry of Finance and the continuous meetings to solve this issue, and not saying that will happen in the near future, but has a certain the solutions to openly call a prosthesis and must find a comprehensive solution to this problem can not be aimed million between the officer and a soldier and officer and a policeman, or worked in a manufacturing or non-military because of the decision made a mistake in my view, The second aspect : Iraq has money and is capable of implementation of projects and should be dismissed with these amounts in the area of investment as we have already failed Iraq to undertake this task, whether the provincial or Baghdad or projects and strategic part of the reason security and I am not of those who pin all on the Security Council and there is a detachment to serve The Iraq for some states, such as Africa and Iraq is an example in terms of security and we have been able to construct and reconstruct What happened in the Zafaraniyah now is a good example where built electric plants there and Mosul there reconstruction Therefore, I say that we should not attach everything on the peg of security for the investment and work and make clear the Arab and foreign Iamra in this country and the country in which the possibilities and the financial and monetary Zaloda of the country very well and I am talking minister and the beginning of the financial figures .
· Report : should the state even if live free economic system that Tofferslv bank advances to build real estate projects or simple home, one of the rights?
· Zubaidi : the establishment of God we will produce citizens that the Land Bank will conduct its activities in the coming six months.
· Report : pause again with Dr. Mahdi Al-Hafiz to tell us about the plans and what can be provided by the State, especially in the investment, Yes, my colleague memory.
· Introduction : Doctor Is it true that the investment will be the best solution? Why did not the law governing this place so far?
· Hafiz : investment is very important, extremely important for Iraq to the conditions that need to sums of money to provide jobs and addresses and provides services for example electricity is estimated that Iraq needs about $ 15 billion so that the electricity or electricity to rise to meet the needs of the population and we have the problem of unemployment which need billion v so that they can have jobs and we have medical services and the process to the end. Iraq currently depends only on the production of oil, which provides revenues cover the needs of the State budget, but if we have other burdens to the state budget becomes Iraq in the event of disability Investing important because contribute to the building of the country's roads, ports, airports, hospitals, and hence the importance but can not be achieved unless it is necessary climate that gives security to investors, which calls to be a law properly regulated national controls.

· Introduction : Return to unemployment. Can the establishment or development of vocational training centers or the opening of a number of educational centers for young people to practice and learn many trades?
· Hafiz : "There is no doubt that because of technical and vocational rehabilitation is very important, because it can not create jobs without qualifications, the person who put it in the post must be shells of their requirements. This is an essential and necessary to the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs, Higher Education and other ministries concerned in this matter to take upon themselves to vocational rehabilitation programs and technical support for youth to be the level of need.
· Report : Welcome again Dear viewers, Mr. Minister, the subject of recent talk is the value of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar. It seems that the state insists, or preserve the value of the Iraqi dinar 148 against the dollar but this offset by a significant increase in prices, spending and Asaaaralmwad food and fuel prices How can the government help the Iraqi citizens to these increases?
· Zubaidi on this subject : the two split the price and that the financial and talk about the monetary side. Monetary value of the Iraqi dinar must revert to the previous level, or at least to acceptable levels as it is in the Iraqi neighboring states. · Report : say there's a statement to Mr. Jabr deleting 0 of currency?
· Zubaidi : I stated that I suggest to my brother, Mr. Governor of the Central Bank which is responsible for monetary policy, Klin to have a delegation with me and Oil Minister and the Governor of the Central Bank met with the International Monetary In one of the meetings proposed to the governor to strengthen the Iraqi dinar is dear and decent Iraq as history, civilization, at least that was the Iraqi dinar equivalent of three dollars and little to equate dollars on the psychological Even when sorrow for one hundred dinars, you assume Bscheholh hundred dollars and not with a corresponding cent dollars today any bearing hundred and fifty thousand dinars, in addition to the strength of the economy and, of course, the governor has another view. Turkey rose six zeroes from its currency and many African States were also subjected Iraq to strong tremors. This aspect God we have great hope that working together, and suggested that the International Monetary Fund to strengthen the Iraqi dinar and we will discuss this subject either side of financial and price increase it is natural that all the things back and take photo, we can not sell oil or gasoline in Iraq three cents, and sold in neighboring countries Fifty cents is medicine be very aware that there smuggling of money for Iraq and its people, and must find a solution could not be found from whatever solutions police and the Customs and security can not, therefore you have to put fiscal policy to reach the price of gasoline, such as neighboring countries, if not more of them.
· Report : Mr. Minister, to watch together this report, which shows the economic and financial situation of the Iraqi people. Dear viewers, we see this report and then complete dialogue with the Minister of Interior.
Comment ... Iraqi citizen repercussions stage in its various forms and daily passes over them during the events of April 2003 and what followed that left a mark on his life and the obvious needs of the requirements in various fields, including economic, What is the push and pull of the Iraqi economy stalled, despite the wealth of Iraq has thus gave all its collateral effects on the citizen and family alike, but the Central Agency for Statistics of the Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, there are two million Iraqi families live under the poverty line either unemployed, especially the young people in understanding the increasing numbers at the time opened a lot of training centers and vocational rehabilitation subsidiaries in a number of governorates many to register the names of the unemployed, and create job opportunities for them not to be the case remains as is, but Agzdad steadily and is now looking for a radical solution. Spokesman ...

The process of attracting foreign investment and employment the right way and create a proper climate for investment, as well as the revitalization of direct investment and indirect investment through local businessmen believe that this movement has been active investment in Iraq and provides even unemployment.

Comment ... Improve the economic level of the country is reflected positively on per capita income and providing job opportunities, and the ingredients that are available in the country has the potential human and material much waiting to be activated and exploitation helps to keep the wheels of progress, the various fields of life to the service of process development thinking.

Spokesman ... Iraq has tremendous natural resources and wealth of human potential and if it is used to optimize the correct therefore reflected on the individual and the state, and the elimination of unemployment, which currently weighing heavily on the country.

Comment ... The economic challenges facing Iraq will require a convergence efforts with a view to lift the country out of the midst of a springboard for the future of the economy has kept pace with the revolution solid economic and technical changes of the world. ·

Submitted : last question, Mr. Minister, combines the politics and economy, but perhaps many Iraqis and observers of the Iraqi political situation to ask this question, watching on satellite channels that Alkonckers American or discussed or approved by the President signed the American as well as one hundred billion dollars to spend on security in Iraq or Afghanistan, many uninhabited billion size, you talk about two billion for the whole of Iraq and the billions disposal to their people to the security of Iraq and this is the security of Iraq if spent five e% of these funds in the reconstruction of Iraq, do you believe that Iraq Sehoude security and reconstruction. What is the truth behind these sayings?

· Zubaidi : You know that the first of these funds are funds Amerikeh of the American taxpayer, not the Iraqi funds spent on 140 thousand or 150 thousand troops in Iraq, as well as one thousand in Afghanistan.

Report : · to establish peace in Iraq?

· Zubaidi : to bring security or other important that these funds You can see the difference between us and the United States of America or between us and Europe is a marked difference in the way the exchange rate and the size and therefore undoubtedly these funds available to the American army or the multinational forces in addition to the Iraqi forces through the purchase of vehicles, weapons and clothing , shoes, and all of these other Nstelmha ready by the United States of America to support our troops.

· Submitted a statement : Mr. Jabr Al-Zubaydi, the Iraqi Minister of Finance, I was a guest on the program dear to the Iraqi Thank you very much. · Zubaidi : Hello, and welcome, thank you. · Submitted : Dear viewers, and the seminar ended Nltqikm in episodes to come, God, please accept greetings to the Amir Hasson, goodbye

I told you, it was long, I'm not sure what date this article was written, but it sure does sound pretty good.

-- September 30, 2006 6:57 AM ∞

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MARK wrote:

3/4 of the way down, they talk about the exchange rate with the dinar
Introduction : Return to unemployment. Can the establishment or development of vocational training centers or the opening of a number of educational centers for young people to practice and learn many trades?
· Hafiz : "There is no doubt that because of technical and vocational rehabilitation is very important, because it can not create jobs without qualifications, the person who put it in the post must be shells of their requirements. This is an essential and necessary to the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs, Higher Education and other ministries concerned in this matter to take upon themselves to vocational rehabilitation programs and technical support for youth to be the level of need.
· Report : Welcome again Dear viewers, Mr. Minister, the subject of recent talk is the value of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar. It seems that the state insists, or preserve the value of the Iraqi dinar 148 against the dollar but this offset by a significant increase in prices, spending and Asaaaralmwad food and fuel prices How can the government help the Iraqi citizens to these increases?
· Zubaidi on this subject : the two split the price and that the financial and talk about the monetary side. Monetary value of the Iraqi dinar must revert to the previous level, or at least to acceptable levels as it is in the Iraqi neighboring states. ·
Making it equal to it"s neighbors, JORDAN for example is $1.41, so an exchange rate of $1.48 would be very nice.

-- September 30, 2006 7:03 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This might be part of the security concerns involved in the Baghdad lockdown and curfew. This could also be a sign that the bad guys are getting desperate.
================================================================================
Iraqi Official Warns Against Coup Attempt
Shiite Cites Rumors, Promises a Fight

By Joshua Partlow and Saad Sarhan
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, July 29, 2006; Page A13

BAGHDAD, July 28 -- A Shiite Muslim political leader said Friday that rumors were circulating of an impending coup attempt against the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and warned that "we will not allow it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/28/AR2006072801746.html

-- September 30, 2006 9:09 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Not sure if anyone else saw this or not.

Iraqi Central Bank to apply International Standards Concerning Sufficiency of Capitals
26/09/2006
Source: Al-Sharq Al-Awsat

An official source in the Iraqi Ministry of Finance confirmed that Iraqi Central Bank will possibly approve the application of international standards concerning the sufficiency of capitals, according to the resolutions of the second conference held in Bazil.

The source added in a statement during the economic session, about the role of banks in the economic reformation process, held in the Ministry of Industry and Metals that Iraqi Central Bank is working fast to take an active role in the economic stability process in the country. The Bank is trying to dispense with some of mechanisms that were prevailing during the time of the ex-regime, especially lending governmental institutions. Therefore, there are serious studies about the possibility of starting and developing a governmental exchange market that will provide all institutions with cash fluidity as fast as possible. In addition, this will enable individuals and capital owners to find new types of guaranteed local investments and limit their running away outside the country.

The same source declared that Iraqi Central Bank is fully independent. It is exhorting great efforts to achieve a stable financial policy that will enhance Iraqi economy and rebuild it through several constructive steps.

The most important step among them is replacing the national currency. Old Iraqi currency was replaced on the 14 of January, 2004 through substituting 4 trillions of old Iraqi dinars by a new currency. The step had many advantages which greatly regained trust in Iraqi dinar and improved the exchange rate. The late approval to grant licenses to foreign banks is another important step to build an active and competitive banking sector in Iraq. In addition to holding a daily auction of foreign exchange for Iraqi Central Bank. The main purposes of this auction are to reduce extreme changes in the exchange rate which may happen suddenly.

The Bank, also, legislated a new law that gives it: complete legal independence, clear authorization to work on achieving stable prices and active monitoring authorities. It started utilizing the open market processes through selling and buying the treasury transfers in order to control economic fluidity and stabilize the exchange flow. The Bank approved a new law concerning commercial banks and this is a main step towards establishing a financial system works according to the criteria. Iraqi law of commercial banks will enhance the Iraqi trade and release the interest rates.

The complete and full release of interest rates on local financial devices (goods, deposits and exchange) is already operative. The bank considers this procedure as an important step towards the emergence of an efficient contemporary financial sector enables loan borrowers to make up their own decisions in stead of being chained by the instructions issued by Iraqi Central Bank.

The bank is now applying several projects. The most important of which is: the reframing and re-qualifying of governmental banks, applying a serious monitoring system and developing the local one, creating a complete united statistical work that covers all main sectors and finally starting a governmental exchange market.

-- September 30, 2006 10:08 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Ah....the plot thickens! The good guys just kicked in the door labeled "treason" and found the head of the Al-Qaida killers in the green zone. And it just so happens that he's the Sunni leader in parliament. I wonder if they will hang him or shoot him for treason.
At least it explains the curfew.

===================================================================================
Detained guard suspected of Iraq attacks By DAVID RISING, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 42 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops detained a bodyguard for the leader of Iraq's biggest Sunni Arab political group on suspicion the guard was preparing suicide bombings, and fearful officials on Saturday enforced a total ban on movement in this city of about seven million people.

The U.S. command said the man was believed to be a member of al-Qaida in Iraq and was preparing a series of suicide attacks inside the heavily fortified Green Zone, home to the Iraqi government, parliament and the U.S. and other western embassies.

Khudhir Farhan was taken into custody Friday at the home of Adnan al-Dulaimi, the head of the largest Sunni Arab bloc in parliament, al-Dulaimi told The Associated Press.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060930/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_060930113953

-- September 30, 2006 10:33 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sorry.....the last post was by me.

-- September 30, 2006 10:36 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Mark,

I'mnot sure when this interview was done, Very recently, I think about two months back, the Finance Minister was sacked.

That was the minister that talked about shaving off zeroes on the Dinar, the "zero loop"that was a hot one about five six months ago.

Also in this inverview posted above,he was talking abut how he wants to shave off zeroes on the Dinar.

That idea dissapeared together with that finance minister.

This looks to me to be a very old interview with people that are no longer on the arena.

C1 Jim,

Posted by Mark, the 26th.

Okie,

Well, it was the body guard for this leader, I just wonder if the Sunni leader can claim ignorance on this one?

That would be a hard act, a body guard is someone that you should know very close, and by the nature of the job, always have to be close to the Sunni leader, wouldn't the Sunni leader have a clue would you think?

Add onto the mix that this body guard is an AlQaida commander, a man that are organizing things for AlQaida, not just a silent symphatizer, this man must be very active in his plots, taking a lot of time on it.

If you would hire a body guard, wouldnt you wonder what he is doing 90% of the time?

They're in cohots. No doubt in my mind.

Public hanging. Invite the press, let the widows of the victims pull the rope to the trapdoor underneath their feet.

-- September 30, 2006 9:25 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi,
So glad to find a site with information. Mosy of my family has invested in the Dinar, with many expectations and daily predictions that have just not pannned out.

What an adventure!!!

Have a relative in Iraq that substantiates that there is a curfew and orders to shoot if anyone around the bank of Iraq after the curfew hours.
We thought of this as a good sign that something must be happening.

-- October 1, 2006 7:54 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi,
So glad to find a site with information. Mosy of my family has invested in the Dinar, with many expectations and daily predictions that have just not pannned out.

What an adventure!!!

Have a relative in Iraq that substantiates that there is a curfew and orders to shoot if anyone around the bank of Iraq after the curfew hours.
We thought of this as a good sign that something must be happening.

-- October 1, 2006 7:55 AM ∞

---

Seeker wrote:

Hey

Where is Lance?
Has anybody heard about a contractor's convoy that was attacted last week? All but 1 were killed. Military escort took off and abandon them when the attack started.
This is something a person I work with told me he heard on the news. I've been looking for something about it on the web and can find nothing.

-- October 1, 2006 11:07 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi,
I read one of the postings explaining the possible chaos with the Iraqi people if the Dinar revalued quickly. The people realizing overnight they had become wealthy. I understand the premise, but did that happen in Kwait when their currency returned to pre-war status? If not, why would someone think it would happen in Iraq?

Our plans were to fly to Switzerland to exchange our dinar if it hits. Then wire it to our accounts in the US. Someone recently told us we could go to jail if we did that. Does anyone know if that is true?
Would love to have this "problem" to contemplate!!

-- October 1, 2006 11:48 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Welcome to the site, its a bit slow right now, sometimes this site will be a very interesting site, sometimes a bit heated, but its always a good source for info.

Could you please tell a bit more about your relative in Iraq, is he/she a military or contractor, or an Iraqi citizen?

What is your possible way of getting info from that source?

I dont know if the plan of flying out all those currencies to Switzerland is a good idea.

I dont have a clue of how much Dinars you are sitting on, but in either way, I would consider staying legal.

It's better to live a life where you don't have to look over the shoulder.

If you scroll back, you will have some interesting reading about taxes, and possible investment. I would suggest you go back a couple of pages and do some backreading.Spend a few hours, it will pay out really good in your general knowledge of the Dinar situation.

Seeker,

Lance , the latest I know, he went home, he posted once but have not heard anything form him. Probably are fixing the raingutter and the washing machine. He is probably very busy taking care of his own house right now. He would go back though, but I dont know when.

-- October 1, 2006 12:46 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Kuwait never had a Dollar/Dinar peg, their currency was freefloating, and sold on the market.

At the time the Kuwait oilwells was burning, the Kuwait Dinar went down to 6 cents, but rebounded to it's previous value within a year.

Many have considered this as the pattern for the Iraq Dinar, and are hoping for a $3.50 value, as the Iraqi Dinar once, long ago, really held that value.

It's a bit more trickier than that.

Kuwait had all wealth to start up with, abroad, invested and untouched when Saddam came into Kuwait.

The occupation of Kuwait was a relative short period of time, and once out, Kuwait was back in business as usual very quick.

Iraq is a rundown country, nevermind it's natural resources. It's wartorn, and is coming from a long era of Stalinistic socialism as it's infrastructure.

There is nothing there to go back to as the Kuwaitis did. Iraq have to school itself into how things work, and how to integrate themselves into the world, and there are some objections, they have an idea that they have to kill each other for a while.

The Dinar must revaluate, but when and how much is another question.

When talking about revaluating the Dinar, we're still talking about a currency not traded on the market. If it would be freely traded on the currency market, the currency would set it's own value.

True, if the Dinar would overnight revalue to lets say $3.50, the Iraqi man would suddenly have a lot of valuable currency in his hand. That level of revaluation would not be possible, but given the situation, that the currency presently doesnt buy much of anything in the outside world, the Dinar must raise in value so they at least can handle problems with starvation and inflation.

It seems to me that a general consensus on this site is that the Dinar holds a value right now in the vicinity of 10 cents. I agree with it.

When it will happen, well the revaluation is overdue long since , but they are still holding it where it's been for years now.

Hopes have come and gone, but nothing. It's just sitting there.

It's a waiting game.

-- October 1, 2006 1:19 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

...and all the time, the prices in Iraq are rising, but their money is holding the same value.
Something has to give.

As for when and how much? How long is a piece of string and how much it it worth?

-- October 1, 2006 3:04 PM ∞

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Seeker wrote:

Seeker: I never rule out anything but the military abondoning their detail is very suspect. Convoys do get hit all the time but I have not heard of more than 1-2 drivers getting killed in any one attack. Yes there were 3 drivers, that I'm aware of, killed last week in separate IED attacks. Certain ones are at a higher risk but I'll refrain from sharing in case someone has family driving here. Anyway, I'm not aware of any attacks happening where our military had to run from the fight. We have apaches in the air and on scene within minutes of any real engagement. If its getting nasty the F-16s role in with a couple 500 pounders to end anything that seemed to be getting out of hand. Anything is possible, but I just don't see our guys abandoning their post so to speak.

-- October 1, 2006 3:32 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Question:

I've pulled up the CBI website numerous times today -- it's showing acution 778, Thursday, 9/28 -- however, my friend seems to be able to pull up 779 auction...has anyone else had this problem -- wha is everyone else seeing on the site?

-- October 1, 2006 4:26 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Question:

I've pulled up the CBI website numerous times today -- it's showing acution 778, Thursday, 9/28 -- however, my friend seems to be able to pull up 779 auction...has anyone else had this problem -- wha is everyone else seeing on the site?

-- October 1, 2006 4:27 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

If there were any truth to the military abandoning the convoy, surely this would have been the Iraq military, not U.S. ?

-- October 1, 2006 4:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Finally,

I found a way to send an e-mail to the CBI. Nelly B, exactly what you describe, was the agenda of my e-mail.

The Dinar buys nothing in the outside world, the Iraqi man have to work very hard and get almost nothing in return.

He will take any money, just to survive, get food on the table, may it be digging down landmines or smuggling or whatever. When you're hungry, your motivation circles more around your survival rather than legal, moral and ethical questions.

I did bring up an aspect to the CBI, a lender is sometimes the master to the borrower.

IMF have a long set of criteria for the Iraqis to full fill, in order for them to get away with either debt forgiveness , restructuring of active loans, and future credit rating.

I have a very strong feeling the IMF are dabbling in Iraqi internal affairs to the degree that they are more or less setting the basics for the Iraq operational policy.

I don't think the Iraqis are dumb, they know what their situation is all about, but are so keen on obliging the IMF, getting rid of all the old Saddam loans, and get the country straight and runing again, that they are doing it on a chock treatment plan.

No money are going to projects like we had here in the depression era, the Hoover dam, the Tennesee valley rebuilt, and all that. They seem to have a tunnel vision that the priorities are :

1. Lick the rearend of IMF, they say, we do.
2. Nothing.
3. Allah
4. The rest.

This is a classic lender, borrower, master, slave scenario.

Like any money institutions, they do what is good for their money.IMF will not do what is good for Iraq, IMF will do what is good for them.

To me it looks like CBI is in the stage when a person is overwhelmed by credit card companies calling them every hour, caving in to any and all demands.

This will go on until you realize that the person that is calling is an idiot in an office cubicle, sitting in a fast turnaround job (90 days) reading from a script trying to scare the shit out of you.

Iraq got to do what is good for Iraq.

I didnt use those words in my e-mail, but the essential idea was communicated.

-- October 1, 2006 4:35 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Terri,

Have seen the same phenomenon, if you go to different server, the new auction is loaded up faster in some and slower in some.

-- October 1, 2006 4:50 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Maliki best get his arse in gear and put the militias out of business or he may be replaced. This is something that must happen to move the country forward.
===================================================================================
"We are faced with two choices, either militias or the nation. We will not allow the dignity of the nation to be violated," the Shiite prime minister said Sunday in an interview with Al-Hurra TV, which is funded and overseen by the State Department.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061001/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_061001201139

-- October 1, 2006 6:00 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

My source in Iraq is the son of my daughter's husband(second). He is in the Army and knows that his father is heavily invested in the Dinar. I called him yesterday morning with information about this site. Within a few hours he notified me that his son notified him of the curfew and the bank survillence issue.

This is the first time I have any dealings with his being there.

I am the late investor in the family ( the skeptic) but my daughters, son-in-laws and realestate investor friend are heavily. Each with about $30-$50k US dollars worth of Dinars. To me that is alot. I have 10K invested.

I also have another source available to me that I have not contacted yet. The brother if a high ranking official in the New Iraqi government. The information that has flowed from him ( that I have paid minimal attention to) seems to coincide with some of the info from the previous postings.

The governemt is very much aware that no Iraqi soldier is going to be willing to take a bullet for $2.50 a day. They know that the insurgency will never be under control until their military can "buy" the Iraqi soldiers allegiance. At the beginging of the war there was an enormous amount of patriotism. But it is now quickly wearing off and even trying to recruit IRAQI soldiers to leave their villages and come to Bagdad is almost impossible.

These issues are facing the government continuously, and they have run out of time and they apparently know it. SO this source has relayed to members of my family that there will be movement toward resolving these issues very very soon.

The US wants to protect their investments and their contractors investments and it is unlikely that they will stand by and watch the new government fall. ALso remember that the US stands at the top of the heirarchy ( voting power)in the IMF.

I think your explanation of the strategy of Iraq trying to get debt relief fits in with the scheme of things. Because, lets face it if the US wanted to end this war, just for the sake of ending it, they could do it in 5 days or less. But Iraq would be a heap of ashes and the people would lose their enthusiam of being a solid democracy. SO, I have to believe that somewhere in the decision making powers to be, even though we may not see it or understand it, there is a definite strategy in play.
Unless some unforseeable catachlesmic event takes place, I think it will be as our president says a long, very long process.

However, it will be interesting to see just how long the government will stall in adressing the economy that directly impacts its citizens and their military.

The essence of a socialistic/communistic regime is to keep people poor and dependent. This collides with the realm of democracy. They can't have it both ways and I think we will see some drastic changes in many areas soon.

-- October 1, 2006 6:37 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Very well written post, you seem to fit right in into this blog. You are an investor, you have a lot of knowledge, and also as a bonus, you have some very good contacts.

On occasion a solder posts here, we have one guy "Outlaw" that is a regular, he is on the way to the sandbox right now, and will probably start posting from there in a couple of days.

There is one contractor, "Lance" that is posting from Iraq, he is home right now, and have been off posting for some time.He is to return to Iraq, though.

The only people that I know of, in or in close proximity to any Iraq official is a "Dr Q" that are payed by an investment group to do teleconferances, saying things that makes us happy.

He's always wrong in his predictions.

Other than that, a lot of research have been made and posted here on this site.

It's the very first time anyone on this site have a relationship directly with a higher Iraqi Official, as you have.

This, my dear Carole, might turn into something very interesting.

We have posters from Canada, and two Brits, then a lot of regular posters that live in the US.

On occasion, when slow, we fill the space with trivia, or unrelated stuff, but the main tread is and have always been the Iraq Dinar.

Oh, we refere to each other at this site as Dinaroholics.

For a long time there has been talk about a Pot Roast in the Keys, when the Dinar hit. Hope to see you at the Pot Roast.

Welcome to the abuse.

-- October 1, 2006 7:43 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole.....

Welcome to our little part of the world and thank you for sharing some good information......

-- October 1, 2006 9:05 PM ∞

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George wrote:

Carole

Allow me to introduce my goodself. I am Seekers feet, the keeper of his stinky socks. We both (and I'm Sure Seeker would agree)bid you a hardy welcome.
It's good to have someone around with a true inside line to whats really going on in the other side of the world.
Most of our info is third party and suspect of hid'n adjendas.
Keep the good info coming and help us keep our feet on the ground and heads out of the clouds.

Fred

My socks want to know if you'll be at the pig roast?

-- October 1, 2006 10:26 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hmmmmmm!!!!
Hope my "flow-down"information source is not somehow connected to "Dr.Q".

Now that I am more involved, I will check it out.

One of the reasons I have recently come alive on this issue, is that the multi-millionaire realestate investor, I have talked to personally several times. He is the one that started my family in this venture.
He has repeatedly over the last 6 months said that he will go overseas and try to open banks just before the Dinar hits.

Three weeks ago he went to Italy on "business" and this week he is in Costa Rico on "business".

At one point he was ging to fly my family to Costa Rico to do the "money exchange" and open foreign accounts. ( He has his own private jet.
Shortly after that he began talking about opening his own banks.

Sooooooo, we are all suspecting that these international "business" trips might be the bank opening ventures.

By the way, he is the one with the direct relationship to the brother of the high ranking offical in the Iraqi new government.

About 2yrs ago he was very involved in helping my children get into realestate investing. In the process, I met him because my husband and I wanted to help another daughter( I have 5 daughters) buy a house. I also felt it was time to meet this"hero" to our family. Being the skeptic that I am I thoroughly checked him out. He is who he says he is!!! A rare breed! A wonderful guy who made his fortune in realestate in the 80's. He has a wonderful family ( whom I have met) and a beautiful house, that he has entertained us in. He is the most unpretentitous kaa-billionaire I have ever met. He loves good family values and adores my family.

His "trip "in life, now is to help people realize their dreams throuh realsetate investing. In less than 2 years some of my children have made a whole bunch of money.

During our loan signing meeting with him, I asked him about my kids setting up a corporation for their new obvious realestate investing. It was during this time that he told me about the DInar investing. He was just learning about it and was told by another businessman that there was a contact closely connected to the Iraqi govt ( or soon to be appointed to the Iraqi cabinet). He said he wasn't going to make a move until he was sure he had reliable sources. About 3-4 months later he informed us that he was ready to invest. He cautioned my kids not to touch their realestate capital, because the Dinar investment could take a long time and was risky.

You are probably thinking along the lines that i did ( and occassionally still do), that this guy seems to good to be true.

But at this point, after satisfying all of my skepticism, I have to trust that he is truly one of the nicest guys you could ever meet and that my family has been blessed by his freindship. PLUS, I KNOW WHERE HE LIVES!!HAHA.

I have his personal cell phone and I can call him any time I want. He is very respectful towards me and my husband. He also knows that I have "sold" the Dinar idea to alot of very hardworking low paid friends who have invested about $1500.00 each.

He has assured my kids to back up their investment if all goes sour as I have assured my friends that I would back up theirs.

Well, I will keep you posted on the goings on as I find out.

I am just thrilled that I have this contact now on this site. I guess we are all in this together somehow.
If TDH ( my family's motto)"if the dinars hit"
will not change my husbands or my life whatsoever. We are well established in our senior years. But my children--well that is another story!!! They have all kinds of dreams and plans. I just pray that if TDH my precious family will not be destroyed in the process as sometimes "money" changes people. In the meantime, at the very least it is an interesting pastime.

-- October 1, 2006 11:10 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

To george, seekers feet, or Fred???

What do you mean about a pig roast?

If the Dinars really do pay off, I would suggest keeping a very low profile within our own environment.

A big party with a bunch of strangers I met on the internet is not something I would be a part of, or would recommend.

Should the Dinars hit and a whole bunch of Non-Arab infidels become instant millionaires would give the al-Quieda type more reasons to kill us!! Don't ya think?

-- October 1, 2006 11:29 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Dont worry, when doing the Pot Roast we wil eat Pig.

Our breath will decompose a true Muslim into mush.

Like garlic against vampires, we will also have a necklace of pig ears.

We will add a layer of pig lard on the entrance door, so all in all that should be a pretty protective layer.

In case it fails and AlQaida will attack us at the Pot Roast over in the Florida Keys, bring your gun.

Silverbullets wont work, hollowpoint filled with pig wax will make a wonderful , almost artistic blood splash.

It's the first time I have ever heard anyone raised concern about having a party and the possibility of being attacked by AlQaida if doing so.

We all take our chances. Nothing is for sure, but the possibility of that happening is so slim I would not even think about it. I must say,if you are really serious about it, you made me smile. Carole, when the Dinar hit, come to the pot roast, get drunk and have fun.

-- October 2, 2006 12:33 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

to seeker: what your friend said about the contractor convoy that was attacked and only one american survivor happened last year, and here's what happened. . the convoy was leaving a base, the military convoy commander made a wrong turn, they headed into an alley and were ambushed, there was a truck driver filming the incident, the military did the right thing by leaving, but the truck driver was supposed to follow, and he didn't, luckily he did finally manage to get out, but there were 4 american drivers killed. . . the driver doing the recording was subsequently fired, he turned his video over to the media who are trying to blame the military, and a certain company that the vp once helmed. . .but in answer to your question. . .it was last year. . .i was working for the same department. . .

-- October 2, 2006 1:44 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All--

I just wanted to make a comment about what panhandler was stating about the truck convoy.

I saw on one of the networks--probably cnn or fox news, a truck driver that was caught up in a fire fight.

However, his problem was that the truck stalled and he could not get out. He used his radio to get in touch with the military--to informed them he had no gun and was stalled on the road. Another truck driver was killed in front of the truck driver down the road by gunmen and this was filmed on the camera showing from the news. Someone...did get left in that situation.

I am not sure if this was recent or what. I caught the news at last minute and I am not exactly sure what the news stations were showing.

Laura

-- October 2, 2006 2:43 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,
What an imagination you have. It almost beats mine.
We'll see about the pig roast. Hopefully, I won't be too old to travel.....

I've notified my son-in-laws about this site. They are much more up on this situation, because as I said I have just really gotten interested since Sept.19th. This was supposed to be a very important day as the IMF
was meeting in Singapore and the Iraqi economy was supposed to be on the agenda.
I found nothing really very significant about that day as far as anything hopeful about our investment--but I started my search for more information and a few days ago ran into this chat site.

Do you know much about this Truck and Barter site? Who started it? Where can I get more info.

Also, what is the significance of e-mailing the CBI? What would one e-mail them about? What are they auctioning?

Also, do you know of anyone who has more than 50K invested? Realizing of course that none of it is verifiable on line.

well it is almost midnight in my neck of the woods. must get to bed. Hopefully while we sleep someone in Iraq will make decisions that will give us more insights, hope, and a reason to use our passports tomorrow....Ciao

-- October 2, 2006 2:47 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

TO ROGER: Right now I'm getting 1450:1 out of Baghdad, i've managed to put about 8 and half mil away, and alot of the talk over here in the sandbox is .25 to .30 by December, Me personally, I would be happy with that as I only have about 2 and half years till I can retire. . . and having been a chef for over 20 years, would be happy to cook for the party in the Keys, since it's just a short boat ride from the panhandle. . good luck to all. . .I also like the loping off of the zeros, which they would have to RV at 1.40 something , and I feel that would make everyone happy. . .

-- October 2, 2006 5:21 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

TO LAURA PARKER:What the news was trying to show is that the company that truck driver worked for is refusing to help him after he was ambushed and the military supposedly left him on his own. . .1st of all, the 1st mistake the truck driver made was he came up on the bumper of the vehicle taking out their line of fire, if he would have stayed at least 100 feet behind, the military would have been able to fire down both sides of the truck, secondly, his vehicle didn't stall, he stopped, he should have done what the military did and get the hell out of there, so with out pointing fingers, it was a bad situation for all, and the end results were 4 good men lost there lives. . it was an unfortunate accident, and this happened last year as i said before, but the media is hellbent on trying to destroy a bunch of good people. . .i personally got into it with one of the media in baghdad, i asked him why don't they tell the real story. . . if you or anyone else really stops to read what is really going on over here, noone is getting shot. . .they are all getting blown up by roadside bombs. . .and the iraqi deaths outnumber our troops by about 100 to 1. . .so don't get upset. . .like i said before this incident happened last year. . .the military is taking good care of our drivers. . .

-- October 2, 2006 7:03 AM ∞

---

nathan wrote:

I hear you can got to HSBC and ask to open an account based is iraq. (they have dealings in iraq)

(only a rumor) maybe true.

This could help in the possible change of currency; eg the bank would change it automaticaly.

However these notes should last a while longer ? 5/10 year?

we need to know any recent infomation on the iraq dinar and if we will see and profit to be made within in 5/10+ years .

im not quoteing any relign here!

as for cheap deal in internet they all have diferent prices.
however spotted 50,000 dinars for $16 (best ive seen)

looking at ebay the prices they are deceiving on some, all that coverting is confusing.

A good way if you happen to use english curreny is to have a list say 10,000 =£3, 25,000 =£10 (examples only!)

i currently have 55,000 dinars myself (tucked away)

I hope the troubles dont last as long as in ireland but could be used as a guideline?

-- October 2, 2006 7:11 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The "oil patch" guys keep telling the Iraqis that they are ready to move in now despite the security concerns. You must understand the big oil companies are ready, willing and able to operate in very hostile areas in order to conduct their business.

My father was an oil driller during my younger days and I soon figured out the people that worked in this business were not scared or impressed by anybody that threatened to "whup their ass". This state of mind still prevails in the oil patch and the companies will drill anywhere they have a contract. The legal types in these companies will always insist on a "third party arbitration" clause that allows them to settle any disputes in a neutral country. This covers their @$$ in case all else fails.

I received two calls this weekend from oil patch friends in the Green Zone and they indicated things were shaping up, and getting better defined, regarding the future oil industry. They believe the $20 billion figure being tossed around to get the oilfields going is just the tip of the iceburg. A lot of turmoil in the green zone but business as usual.

They still hear strong rumors about the IQD RV but nothing firm. They're heavy dinarholics like me and will shout to the heavens when something happens.

======================================================================================
International Oil Companies are Rushing to Invest in Iraq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02 October 2006 (eDinar Financial)
Minister Ashahristani officially stated: "I met with representatives of big oil companies during the meeting of OPEC in Vienna and they were ready to negotiate with us about developing our oil fields before the legislation of the gas and oil law is finished. However, the minister did not name these companies. He added that the Iraqi Oil Ministry is currently responsible for running the Iraqi Oil sector and will bound itself to one type of contracts only. This, clearly points out to the dispute over the production process and the sharing agreements. Ashahristani did not comment on what kind of contracts the Ministry will sign with these companies.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-02-10-2006&article=10823

-- October 2, 2006 9:34 AM ∞

---

Tman wrote:

Hey all!

I am new to this blog (and blogging in general). However, I have read a lot your site over the last few weeks after a client of mine talked about investing in Iraqi Dinars. In my opinion, this is a total crap shoot. Don't invest more than you are willing to loose in Vegas. Am I right? Let me know. Also, I can purchase Dinar at any Chase Bank branch for .00076760 USD. Is this a good rate or should I order from the internet? I think I would trust the bank over the internet. Then, when the Dinar come into the bank I can just put them into a safe deposit box. It is also good to know that Chase will exchange the Dinar back to USD at .00062510. Nice little spread for them. The rates above are as of last week. I haven't purchased any Dinar, yet. Let me know your thoughts. I am new to this (obviously). Thanks!

-- October 2, 2006 1:28 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Okie:

Your post is quite encouraging. From my perspecteive, which I am sure you know once the oil starts flowing this is when we are more likely to see an RV.

I look forward once we see Exxon/Mobil, Shell/Texaco, and BP/Chevron inside Iraq pumping millions of barrels of oil per day, because more oil equals larger RV. In contrast, no substantial oil output equals no RV.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 2, 2006 2:18 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole...

You wrote:

If TDH ( my family's motto)"if the dinars hit"

I realize this is a very personal thing to ask, but would you take a family vote and change the motto to "when the dinars hit"....it just seems to have more positive energy to it.

I would jump for joy and be forever in your debt if you can make the change....

Thanks....

-- October 2, 2006 3:24 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

We are waiting patiently for that illusive RV. Question: After Iraq revalues its currency, how long will it take for American banks to offer the exchange? Is it RV then forex, which then the bank will use to determine an exchange rate?

What criteria do banks use like Chase in determining whether to sell Dinars before it reaches forex?

Carole, welcome to the board. I look forward to future postings.

Tman, you are just now embarking upon a wild ride. Once you buy your ticket we look forward to welcoming you aboard.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 2, 2006 4:50 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Hi Carole.

Welcome to the rollercoaster.

It seems like you have a lot to offer the group.

Looking forward to hearing your take on things and sharing a seat next to you on the ride.

-- October 2, 2006 6:59 PM ∞

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CYMRU001 wrote:

Hello everyone, thanks for providing me with some very interesting reading.

I started reading the posts from two years ago and tried to read my way up to date, but had to skip a couple of years and read through this most recent string!!!

I too am very new to this and obviously have reservations. I was very sceptical before my first purchase and am still worried about what might happen.

I read one post which touched on the legal side of having dinar and exchanging them back into other currency at a profit. (In my case British Pounds). What are those legalities? Pressumably, some kind of capital gains tax would be due? Anyone able to shed any light on the matter?

Also, to enter into the great zero loping debate, it would seem to me that anyone holding currecy in their home would lose out if a zero was lopped off! (Is it loping or lopping??). Anyway, would anyone know if it is possible to open an Iraqi bank account from the UK? My thoughts being that I could just put my GBP into the account and have it automatically changed into Dinar. If there was to be any loss of zero's, then the Iraqi account would automatically adjust to suit as was described during the change over into NID. Then, once the windfall did start falling, then I could simply bring my money home. (Am I being too optimistic?)

Another reason for thinking of this course of action would cut out the middle men I currently have to use to get my Dinar.

I haven't looked into this and wouldn't know where to start looking.

I also apologise if any of this has been covered in the couple of years I skipped to get to here!!

Any advice GREATLY appreciated!!!

-- October 2, 2006 7:36 PM ∞

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John wrote:

CYMRU001

I would not be concerned with a lop. It has been talked about and shot down. Not only has the IMF said "not going to happen" the country would completely loose confidence in their currency, and if that wasn't bad enough, the billion dollar businesses that are knocking on the door to invest would be less confident as well. Of course we do not KNOW what will happen, there is more than enough evidence to say it won't.

John

-- October 2, 2006 8:43 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi Okie,

I checked with some key family members.I guess they have always supported the motto "WTDH". I guess my focus has been on the "TDH" and I have been the lone skeptic,taking the "if" position.

However, I must admit, that since I have found this site, I am really jazzed.

I am afraid to get too excited, but by golly, I think I am converting!!!

SO BE IT----WHEN THE DINARS HIT!!!!!!!!

It is in my heart now and I will not do anything not to impede the energy on this site. Thanks for the encouragement and "heads up".

-- October 2, 2006 9:45 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

You seem to come up with gems all the time, Yes, I've been part of oilrig crew once, North sea, Stavanger. It's a tough crowd, all big breasted, somewhat loud, but it's sure hard to take a piss on any of those guys.

The oil industry will, (and are) constantly working in areas where there is social unrest, so Iraq should be just "another day at the office" for that industry.

I've also read the 20 bil figure in a couple of articles. Well, more into Iraq, means more business,means stronger base for the Dinar, means higher value as time goes by.

Like it, keep reporting any signicficant news from your friends over there.

Carole,

Just want sure if you were joking or not, no we have pig made anti AlQaida meaqsures at the Pot Roast, and you are warmly welcome.

Asfor your age, hey I'm counting wrinkles too, so don't worry, I remember the very first Sputnik, that shows my age.

As for the Singapore meeting, yes, there was one, but I have run into the same as you, nothing on the official agenda, that makes me believe the session was held with closed doors.

The only time you really want to have closed doors, and secrecy is when you want to de or revaluate currency, in order to avoid panic buys and sells, illegal currency activities or to protect the currency from massive buyups, or sellouts.

So in itself , I see the hush, hush as a positive.

The CBI is the Iraqs "Federal Bank".

Their currency have not followed the economical development in Iraq, about 10 million Iraqis are living on 2-3 Dollars /day,or less, and out of those, about 4 millions are living on as little as 1 Dollar/day.

It is so obvious that it is almost tragic/comic that their currency is so extreemly undervalued and masses are starving, but they seem to be in the grips of IMF telling the Iraq bank what the criterias are to get rid of loans, get loan reconstruction or better credit rating, that this seem to be the close focus of the bank.

The CBI have to do what is good for the Iraqi people, not what a lender is saying.

Sometimes when a lenderinstitution is bugging you to the degree that you cant have one minute alone without a phone call,you have to put your foot down.

It was a past mistake, right or wrong, but you have to see after your own house.

Iraqs Central Bank can't run it's operation with a lender as a policy maker.

IMF, is after all a lending institution, despite its international name and global flair.

That, in very nice words was communicated to them from me.

Don't think I will even get a response, but I'm pretty sure I planted an idea.

Dont have a clue how T&B started, ask Kevin the moderator, they got e-mail addresses posted.

Are you sure you dont mean 50 Mil, most refer the investment as the ammount theyre holding, in Dinars.

$50K would buy you about 60-75 mil Dinars depending on source.

I'm sitting on 40 mil.As for others they usually dont mind revealing how much they have, some will, some dont.

"Show me your's and I show you mine" ;)

Panhandler,

Interesting buzz, 25 to 30 cents is the word. That would probably be very close to the last consesnus I could detect on this site, where a figure of 1-15 cents, ( or thereabouts), seems to be most real.

If the buzz is 25 to 30 cents, thqat means that they are taking a little bit of a gamble and are actually overvaluing the currency somewhat.

Well, Iraq export that is depending on Dinars, is only 15% of Iraqs total export, so very little will be hurt with a slight overvalue. In fact it will boost the internal machinery so much more.

As for the zero loop, naa, bad idea, we have been over that a couple of times, you can actually scroll back and do some back reading and get all the inns and outs of that. I believe this was a hot one about 5-6 months ago. If you have the time, scroll back and read up on it. Interesting reading, at the peak, one guy "Ministry of Lies" went nuts, sold out , and accused others for lying to him, pretty funny section.

I wish I could be over there and get those prices on Dinars as you are getting, keep getting them while you can, and yes, you are hereby the official chef at the Pot Roast.

Nathan,

Keep tucking them away. If it comes to (Hopefully it wont) exchanging the Dinars in the future, usually quite livberal time is given for that, and unless you have other reasons, just to get a bank account overseas for that reason only is not neccessary.

I can see are refering to Ireland, and are using Pounds as an example, so I can assume your over there in the Queens territory.

No panic, over here a couple of banks have already started to trade in Dinars, both buying and selling, and I can only assume it would be a matter of time before the practice is taken up over there as well. Any currency exchange could be handled with the local bank in that case.

Nathan, as having a diploma in financial ethics, I would urge you to sell a kidney and get more Dinars, this might be a chance of a life time.

55.000 Dinars is less than 40 bucks.

I'm absolutely not taking a piss on you for having it, all the power to you, but that small ammount wont make a change in your life even if it goes very well for the Dinar. Figure out a way to get a mil or two at least, then you can really start dreaming if this goes well.

Something tells me you have to hurry up also.

Having Dinars is like having a Lotto ticket knowing the odds are much better, and the dreams....oh yes, the dreams...

If I get a casle, I would love it, but I really enjoy to have it in my dreams also.

The Dinar game. You got to love it.

-- October 2, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

RV or Forex???

My take, the currency will continue for some time to be under strict peg, perhaps a gradual peg, and more flexibility in the future, but still a peg as we have it now.

Depending on :
1. The countrys rebuilt and production.
2. The development of Iraqs, banksystem, to be conforming to international practices.
3. The fullfillment of all IMF criteria.

When all this is done , I do believe we will see a free traded Dinar on the Forex.

Then again, they might suprise us all, loop off three zeroes, and let it go straight on the market for a buck. I doubt it, but with no insider info, your guess is as good as mine.

-- October 2, 2006 11:09 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

CYMRU001,

Welcome to the abuse, and mental flogging.

May I, if you are about to purchase Dinars, are a bit unsure about things, laws, taxes, exchanges and so on.....may I suggest.

Dont worry about that now, you can't be worry about something you dont have.

As a firt step, just go and get those funny looking Dinar bills.

At that point you have earned the right to worry as much as you like about them.

I dont think you can dabble around too long figuring out if you want to buy them or not, the investment opportunity window you have with the prices you can get the Dinars for now, will be closed forever once they start moving.

Have one worry only...-"how can I get them yesterday"?

-- October 2, 2006 11:19 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,
I said it right. I have 10thoushand US dollars invested . Three of my daughter and thier husbands have 30thousand dollars invested. One has 50 thousand dollars invested. I have one daughter( the poor one) that we bought 5 thousand dollars worth.

We have no idea how much our realestate millionaire has, but I am sure it is considerably more than all of our family put together.

My daughters bought theirs in increments.The last time just before the Sept 19th IMF meeting.

My skepticism elevated when at that time the USDINAR.com told them they could not guarantee delivery because they might go on the open market and if that were the case, they would just return their money. Of course everyone got excited. This is when I thought we were experiencing the epitomy of an international scam.

I was tempted to jump in and buy more, but I didn't. When Sept 19th came and went, I was glad I didn't.

Even thoug I am more enthusiastic since I got on this site it is still and wait and watch situation, For everyone's sake I hope it all works out. SO far none of us want to take the chance in getting our money back.

One good thing that happened during this time was that when I bought mine, I was undecided to either buy dinar or reinvest in the gold market. At that time gold was over $700. I had originally bought at $285 and The scuttle butt was it was going to over 1000. Well I diecided to go for the dinar, and within 15 days gold took a dive!!! SO I guess I made a good decision....

-- October 2, 2006 11:22 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

Clarification, it will be an RV, but still under a peg, it will be more flexibility in the Dinar as to its true value and more often RV,d but still under strict peg.

That reads better.

-- October 2, 2006 11:30 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Just read an article (ISX.Data.com) from the Iraq Stock Exchange Chief Manager.

Very interesting reading. He dont believe there will be an RV based on a very stable interest rate.

(I dont agree, a stable interest rate in itself can be held with an under or over valued currency, but ok)

He further thought that the hot stock in Iraq right now is the Bank stocks.

He claims the ISX have a working relationship with CBI but are independent from each other.

Pretty good reading.Check it out.

-- October 2, 2006 11:48 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

To all, I need some help with the following:
What is RV?
What is Forex?
What is peg?

-- October 3, 2006 1:57 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole...

RV= revalue

Forex= foreign exchange

Peg= as in pegging the dinar to the $, like 1IQD=1USD

hope this helps....

-- October 3, 2006 5:39 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Okie,

Thanks for the info. If I understand the "peg" right, would this mean that the 15mil dinar that I have would be worth 15 mil dollars?

Roger,
I remember the first TV!!!!

My husband and I are the classical baby boomers. We both took early retirements a few years ago to take care of my mom after my dad passed away. But we do private consulting in our professions. We are not on Medicare yet, but getting close. I guess that is when we will start feeling old. For now as along as we can still swing a golf club and walk a mile a day we still feel young enough to be involved in things like investing.

Oh by the way, I am an avid poker player!!! I guess if I have any fantasy about the Dinar hitting it would be to get into a 5K no limit buy in Texas Holdem game!!! For sure I would buy in the World Poker Tournament. Actually my kids say they will buy me a seat for my 65th birthday.

Several years ago, we owned some businesses in Palm Springs and out of boredom one night I went to one of the Casinos. I sat at a table with a $40 buy in and came home with $700. And>>> from that point on I was hooked!!!!

I have met some interesting and wonderful people in Palm Springs since then. Most are snowbirds that go to Palm Springs for the winter. Most are retired people of various professions. Boy !will I have Dinar stories to tell this year. Most of our winter friends are older than us, and very well off, but it will be interesting to find out if anyone else got bit by the Iraqi dinar bug.

I have promised myself that I will call our realestate friend this week. He has always returned my calls immediately, no matter where he is. I try not to call him often so I don't become a pest. The last time I called him was in July. So it is about time. Hopefully by the end of this week I will have some more news. I tend to be alittle more direct and open with him than my children becuase they are sort of awew struck by him. I like and respect him alot, but not awe struck in the least.

One of my son-in-laws talk to him almost weekly. By now I would have come right out and asked him if he was going through with his plans to open banks as he had planned to do. My kids gasp when I tell them I have plans to come right out and ask him. It is sort of funny.

-- October 3, 2006 7:26 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

I tried to check out that web site ISX, but got nowhere.It comes up " no matches found". Any suggestions?

-- October 3, 2006 7:32 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Again, the Kurds are leading the way. I hope one day the militants take time out from drilling holes in each others heads to realize that Kurdistan is getting a lot of the International funding because they have security under control.

This University is good news for Iraq and I hope our Embassy backs it to the hilt.

=======================================================================================
Reconstruction: An American University
A bastion of U.S.-style higher learning arises in Kurdistan. The hope is that it will be fully Iraqi.
By Malak Hamwi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02 October 2006 (Newsweek, Inc)
Iraqi higher education has been on a downward trajectory for decades due to war, dictatorship and isolation. But now the American University of Iraq, soon to rise in the Kurdish city of Sulaymaniyah, hopes to reverse the decline. The university, AUI-S for short, is the brainchild of Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih, who long dreamed of setting up a university in his hometown once Iraq was free.

After the fall of Saddam Hussein, he put his plan into action. Why name the school American University? Because, he says, Iraqis are grateful to the United States for liberating them—nowhere more so than in Kurdistan. Besides, he adds, "American education is among the best products the U.S. can offer."

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-03-10-2006&article=10836

-- October 3, 2006 9:37 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Good news from Canada. My home town, Calgary, Alberta (population 1 million) is the oil capital of Canada, located in Western Canada. A leading Canadian oil exploration company is Western Oil Sands Inc. It is one of the "heavy hitters" in the oil business in Canada. It is the same company that spearheaded investment in the Alberta Tar Sands, a hugely profitable, successful (but expensive to develop) oil development project in Northern Alberta. The Alberta Tar Sands are an overwhelming financial success, making a lot of money for investors. Western Oil Sands helped spearhead development of the Alberta Tar Sands fifteen years ago against considerable local opposition and criticism and doubt and fear and lack of vision. Western Oil Sands CEO Jim Houck led that development. He was proved right in that venture and the company is very wealthy as a result. The Alberta Tar Sands are a major part of the oil business in Alberta that has helped us generate the income to help Alberta to become one of the wealthiest regions in the world. The economic growth in Alberta is unbelievably good. There is a huge amount of immigration coming to Alberta for jobs, and housing prices have gone through the roof. I bought my house for 130 thousand six years ago and it is now worth over 400 thousand Canadian, which is about 360 thousand American. Our two major cities in Alberta are Calgary and Edmonton. The Calgary-Edmonton corridor has the highest per capita family income level in North America. The CEO of Western Oil Sands, Jim Houuk, has decided that the future of big money in oil is in Iraq. They are investing a lot of money in Northern Iraq, in Kurdistan. Naturally, the local knee jerk press is reacting, crapping their pants, saying any venture in Iraq is dangerous. I guess they don't realize Northern Iraq is quite secure. Mr. Houck said, in an interview with Canada's leading financial magazine, Financial Post Business, last August, that "The new prospects hold giant hydrocarbon potential. According to the Financial Post Business Magazine in October/06, energy experts in Calgary are calling Iraq the "The world's last great oil prize." Western Oil sands will start drilling next year.

Politically, the deal is solid. Extensive agreements have been made with the Kurds. The Kurds are well led. The Kurdish Minister of Natural Resources, Ashti Hawrami, is a thirty year oil business vetern with a Phd. in Geology and Engineering.

As I wrote one time on this blog, our success is assured. The world is undergoing a huge economic expansion. The economic boom in China is so great, that by mid-century, China's economy will be as big as America's. That means, they will need a lot of oil. India's growth is comperable to China's, and they may eclipse the economic success of China. That's where our money is being made, really. It is being made in machine shops in Beijing, and new factories in New Dehli, and the the new housewife who can afford a new car in Kualalampour. This all means, the oil MUST flow. It cannot be stopped. Stopping the economic forces at work here would be like one man in a liferaft trying to slow down an iceberg. That won't happen. Good news for us, I'd say. One day, investors in Iraqi Dinars will be rewarded generously for their investment.

-- October 3, 2006 12:40 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

As a couple of added thoughts, to clarify my last post:

The reason I made a few comments on the economy in my home province of Alberta, and house prices, etc., is that I have seen first hand, just what oil can do. It's absolutely amazing. I was born in Western Canada, have leaved here my whole life, (although I have travelled extensively) and I would have to say, if any investors haven't lived or travelled in areas of the world where there is a lot of oil money around, you really have to experience it to believe it. There's no substitute. I plan to sell my house this year, and move to a cheaper location, into semi-retirement, and I will have made several hundred thousand, just for buying and sitting in a house for six years, thanks to oil money. Also, Alberta's economy is diversifying. The oil started it, but we have an aweful lot going on here besides oil. For instance, Alberta is developing as one of the best, and largest, cutting edge medical research centres in the world. But it was oil that, in a brief start, helped changed a rural, slightly backwards place, a couple generations out of pioneering lifestyles, into a high tech, very rich lifestyle. And it will do it in Iraq, too.

As an added note, I mentioned oil sands development in Alberta. Just to give you people on the board an idea of how big a thing we are talking about: Oil sands development in Alberta is now in the tens of Billions of dollars. It's expected to be around 100 billion in the long term. That's Billions with a B. The trucks used to transport the heavy oil sands are five stories high. It has to be seen to be believed. And the entire project is so massive, it can literally be seen from space, from the Space Shuttle.

As an added note on China, in our national newspaper, I have followed economic change in China closely. Just the other day, there was a story about IPOs. (Initial Public Offerings) The largest 5 in history, all very recent, are all in China. Economic growth in China is guargantuan. According to our national newspaper, economic growth in China is the largest and quickest increase in wealth in human history, with the most number of people ever benefiting and escaping poverty, ever. And of course, the Chinese will need a lot of oil. It is no coincidence that the first foreign bank that I remember setting up in Iraq was the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank Corporation, or HSBC. The Chinese know there will be big money to be made in Iraq. I have a lot of Chinese friends. I can tell you, from personal experience, they sure have a nose for money.

And that's what the whole thing in Iraq is about, and an investment in Dinars. The power of oil, and the accompanying economic growth, to make investors very wealthy, in a relatively short time. Wealthy economies, with a lot of money flowing, have currencies that are worth a lot. That means are investments will be worth an aweful lot more than we paid for them initially. The only real question left for me is not, will we make a lot of money, it's when?

-- October 3, 2006 2:04 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

As a couple of added thoughts, to clarify my last post:

The reason I made a few comments on the economy in my home province of Alberta, and house prices, etc., is that I have seen first hand, just what oil can do. It's absolutely amazing. I was born in Western Canada, have leaved here my whole life, (although I have travelled extensively) and I would have to say, if any investors haven't lived or travelled in areas of the world where there is a lot of oil money around, you really have to experience it to believe it. There's no substitute. I plan to sell my house this year, and move to a cheaper location, into semi-retirement, and I will have made several hundred thousand, just for buying and sitting in a house for six years, thanks to oil money. Also, Alberta's economy is diversifying. The oil started it, but we have an aweful lot going on here besides oil. For instance, Alberta is developing as one of the best, and largest, cutting edge medical research centres in the world. But it was oil that, in a brief start, helped changed a rural, slightly backwards place, a couple generations out of pioneering lifestyles, into a high tech, very rich lifestyle. And it will do it in Iraq, too.

As an added note, I mentioned oil sands development in Alberta. Just to give you people on the board an idea of how big a thing we are talking about: Oil sands development in Alberta is now in the tens of Billions of dollars. It's expected to be around 100 billion in the long term. That's Billions with a B. The trucks used to transport the heavy oil sands are five stories high. It has to be seen to be believed. And the entire project is so massive, it can literally be seen from space, from the Space Shuttle.

As an added note on China, in our national newspaper, I have followed economic change in China closely. Just the other day, there was a story about IPOs. (Initial Public Offerings) The largest 5 in history, all very recent, are all in China. Economic growth in China is guargantuan. According to our national newspaper, economic growth in China is the largest and quickest increase in wealth in human history, with the most number of people ever benefiting and escaping poverty, ever. And of course, the Chinese will need a lot of oil. It is no coincidence that the first foreign bank that I remember setting up in Iraq was the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank Corporation, or HSBC. The Chinese know there will be big money to be made in Iraq. I have a lot of Chinese friends. I can tell you, from personal experience, they sure have a nose for money.

And that's what the whole thing in Iraq is about, and an investment in Dinars. The power of oil, and the accompanying economic growth, to make investors very wealthy, in a relatively short time. Wealthy economies, with a lot of money flowing, have currencies that are worth a lot. That means are investments will be worth an aweful lot more than we paid for them initially. The only real question left for me is not, will we make a lot of money, it's when?

-- October 3, 2006 2:05 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Summing up my last two entries: "I can almost smell and taste the meat from that pig roast, Roger.... I'll make sure I always keep an apple handy, in the fridge. Our Canadian Macintosh Delicious Red Apples are the sweetest and best in the world, grown in the Okanagan Valley of British Columbia. They will fit nicely into a roast pig's mouth. Can someone recommend a wine that goes with roast pork?"

-- October 3, 2006 2:29 PM ∞

---

TAYLOR wrote:

Great posts there Tim Bitts. I didn't realize how much oil there was up there. Perhaps your Edmonton Oilers are skating on oil slicks. They were definately quicker that the hurricanes.

My question for you is, How long after the oil compaines started drilling did you start to see economic exapnsion in your area? (ex. new shops, banks, better schools, community projects)

-- October 3, 2006 5:18 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts.....

Thanks for the tour of Alberta. I had a smile on my face as I read it because my good friend is a head hunter for oil patch types. His latest bitch and whine is that he can't get enough people for the Middle East because they're all heading to Alberta for the good living and salaries.

It's good to have oil resources in North America.

-- October 3, 2006 6:18 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts....

My choice of wine to go with the roast pork is "any"....but Im just an Okie....and we'll drink anything!

-- October 3, 2006 6:56 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Taylor, you asked about how long, after the oil flowed, in Alberta, did you see more schools, shops, banks, community projects? Well, in Alberta, the oil based economy started in 1947, with the discovery of oil at Turner Valley. The economic development happened right away. However, the price of oil, for most of the last half of this previous century was much much lower than it is today. This meant Alberta's development was at a modest and steady pace. The slow and steady pace, it all changed very recently. What kicked in, very, very noticably, is that when the price of oil shot up in the last few years, the level of economic activity in Alberta shot up immediately and very dramatically. Right now, the provincial government here, (equivalent to state government) in a province of 2.5 million people, is running a 12 billion dollar annual surplus. Last year, there was so much money, the local premier, Ralph Klein, (the equivalent to an American govenor) sent checques out for 400 dollars to every Albertan. The amount of money here is almost ridiculous. And it will only continue. As I mentioned, the Chinese and Indian economies will be going full bore in development for likely the next half century. That means demand for oil for at least the next half century will be much much higher than it has been for the past 50 years. The Chinese have bought interest in some of the Alberta Tar Sands, to fuel their growing economy. The higher price of oil and the much greater world demand than the previous 50 years will mean the development of Iraq's oil will be much quicker than Alberta's. That means an eventual high price for the dinars you have bought, which means a lot more money in your pocket. Iraq will have a wild and crazy level of overall economic development in the whole of Iraq, as soon as they get a handle on the security situation. So, to answer your question of when, exactly, a whole bunch of economic development will happen, the kind that will benefit ordinary Iraqis, I think pretty much right after the security situation is under control. That's pretty much what happened in Kurdistan, as soon as they got the security situation under control. Now, it's booming. That will continue.

A couple of added notes on the Alberta Tar Sands. As I mentioned, there is a lot of developent right now in Northern Alberta of oil, which extracted from sand. How much is there? Well, in proven reserves, Alberta is only second to Saudi Arabia. The oil is sitting under a forest in Northern Alberta the size of Florida. The Saudis have 260 billion barrels of proven reserves. Alberta has 175 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. We also have, underground, in estimated secondary reserves, which are harder to extract, and more expensive, oil reserves of 2 trillion barrels. That's 8 times the amount of oil in Saudi Arabia. If you got the money, we got the oil.

So why isn't Alberta the oil capital of the world right now? The oil is difficult to extract and process. The problem in the past, for Alberta, has been, for a long time, the complicated technology to extract the oil simply did not exist. We developed it. Also, for a long time, after the technology was developed to extract it, the world price of oil was too low to sustain the high cost of developing Canadian Tar Sands oil. That has all changed now. The price of oil is high, and is expected to continue to be high for a very long time. Already, the price of crude is much higher than is actually necessary to make enormous profits in the Tar Sands.

Within 10 years, Alberta will surpass Saudi Arabia as the largest source of foreign oil. We like to think of ourselves as blue-eyed sheiks, here in Alberta. Americans like to do business here because we don't have terrorists. The scariest thing here is watching the bull riders run from the bull horns at the Calgary Stampede, the world's biggest rodeo and outdoor event.

Now, getting back to economic development and the value of the dinar, I don't think economic development and dinar value are completely linked. In other words, I don't think we will need to wait till Iraq is economically developed to appreciate a large return on our investment. I don't think we will have to wait for a bunch of economic development before the dinar is revalued. I don't think that's the way it will work. Let me put it this way: I don't think economic develpment in Iraq IS possible without a revaluing of their currency, whether they revalue it themselves, or it establishes it's value on the open market. I'm not sure which way the value of the currency will be increased. The only thing I do know for sure is that the Dinar will have to be worth a whole lot more than it is today, or, as I say, economic development will be literally impossible. With a low dinar, as it is today, Iraq would be giving away everything if they used their present currency for trade with other countries, at it's present worth. That won't happen. That's for sure.

Oil companies have a long history of working in many hazardous, war-torn regions, like the Sudan. I don't expect that to change in Iraq. There will be a lot of development, especially in the oil sector, from now on. Terrorists and insurgents won't stop that. That means to me, I expect a dinar revaluation within the next two years. That's my best guess, on the question, of When? When will revaluation happen?

-- October 3, 2006 10:52 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Taylor, you asked about how long, after the oil flowed, in Alberta, did you see more schools, shops, banks, community projects? Well, in Alberta, the oil based economy started in 1947, with the discovery of oil at Turner Valley. The economic development happened right away. However, the price of oil, for most of the last half of this previous century was much much lower than it is today. This meant Alberta's development was at a modest and steady pace. The slow and steady pace, it all changed very recently. What kicked in, very, very noticably, is that when the price of oil shot up in the last few years, the level of economic activity in Alberta shot up immediately and very dramatically. Right now, the provincial government here, (equivalent to state government) in a province of 2.5 million people, is running a 12 billion dollar annual surplus. Last year, there was so much money, the local premier, Ralph Klein, (the equivalent to an American govenor) sent checques out for 400 dollars to every Albertan. The amount of money here is almost ridiculous. And it will only continue. As I mentioned, the Chinese and Indian economies will be going full bore in development for likely the next half century. That means demand for oil for at least the next half century will be much much higher than it has been for the past 50 years. The Chinese have bought interest in some of the Alberta Tar Sands, to fuel their growing economy. The higher price of oil and the much greater world demand than the previous 50 years will mean the development of Iraq's oil will be much quicker than Alberta's. That means an eventual high price for the dinars you have bought, which means a lot more money in your pocket. Iraq will have a wild and crazy level of overall economic development in the whole of Iraq, as soon as they get a handle on the security situation. So, to answer your question of when, exactly, a whole bunch of economic development will happen, the kind that will benefit ordinary Iraqis, I think pretty much right after the security situation is under control. That's pretty much what happened in Kurdistan, as soon as they got the security situation under control. Now, it's booming. That will continue.

A couple of added notes on the Alberta Tar Sands. As I mentioned, there is a lot of developent right now in Northern Alberta of oil, which extracted from sand. How much is there? Well, in proven reserves, Alberta is only second to Saudi Arabia. The oil is sitting under a forest in Northern Alberta the size of Florida. The Saudis have 260 billion barrels of proven reserves. Alberta has 175 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. We also have, underground, in estimated secondary reserves, which are harder to extract, and more expensive, oil reserves of 2 trillion barrels. That's 8 times the amount of oil in Saudi Arabia. If you got the money, we got the oil.

So why isn't Alberta the oil capital of the world right now? The oil is difficult to extract and process. The problem in the past, for Alberta, has been, for a long time, the complicated technology to extract the oil simply did not exist. We developed it. Also, for a long time, after the technology was developed to extract it, the world price of oil was too low to sustain the high cost of developing Canadian Tar Sands oil. That has all changed now. The price of oil is high, and is expected to continue to be high for a very long time. Already, the price of crude is much higher than is actually necessary to make enormous profits in the Tar Sands.

Within 10 years, Alberta will surpass Saudi Arabia as the largest source of foreign oil. We like to think of ourselves as blue-eyed sheiks, here in Alberta. Americans like to do business here because we don't have terrorists. The scariest thing here is watching the bull riders run from the bull horns at the Calgary Stampede, the world's biggest rodeo and outdoor event.

Now, getting back to economic development and the value of the dinar, I don't think economic development and dinar value are completely linked. In other words, I don't think we will need to wait till Iraq is economically developed to appreciate a large return on our investment. I don't think we will have to wait for a bunch of economic development before the dinar is revalued. I don't think that's the way it will work. Let me put it this way: I don't think economic develpment in Iraq IS possible without a revaluing of their currency, whether they revalue it themselves, or it establishes it's value on the open market. I'm not sure which way the value of the currency will be increased. The only thing I do know for sure is that the Dinar will have to be worth a whole lot more than it is today, or, as I say, economic development will be literally impossible. With a low dinar, as it is today, Iraq would be giving away everything if they used their present currency for trade with other countries, at it's present worth. That won't happen. That's for sure.

Oil companies have a long history of working in many hazardous, war-torn regions, like the Sudan. I don't expect that to change in Iraq. There will be a lot of development, especially in the oil sector, from now on. Terrorists and insurgents won't stop that. That means to me, I expect a dinar revaluation within the next two years. That's my best guess, on the question, of When? When will revaluation happen?

-- October 3, 2006 10:53 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

To clarify, Alberta will be the largest source of foreign oil, for the United States, within 10 years.

-- October 3, 2006 10:59 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

To clarify, Alberta will be the largest source of foreign oil, for the United States, within 10 years.

-- October 3, 2006 10:59 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

To clarify, Alberta will be the largest source of foreign oil, for the United States, within 10 years.

-- October 3, 2006 11:00 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

To clarify, Alberta will be the largest source of foreign oil, for the United States, within 10 years.

-- October 3, 2006 11:03 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

To clarify, Alberta will be the largest source of foreign oil, for the United States, within 10 years.

-- October 3, 2006 11:03 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Just a clarification, a peg is a fixed relation ship, it might be 1 dollar to 1 Dinar, but it might as well be 1 Dinar to 1 Cent. The peg means, that it will not change from that value unless it is made to do so. The opposite from a free floating crrency.

Try www.ISX-data.com I however checked in on that site myself, but today I didnt found that article, did a hurry job though, and you might have better luck.

Gotta cut it a bit short today, see ya all.

-- October 3, 2006 11:06 PM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

Iraq has completed a draft law on securities and stock exchange
Baghdad-Adel Mahdi life-10/3/06

The Executive Director of Iraqi Stock Exchange, Taha Ahmed Salam, The committee, consisting of the Securities and Exchange Iraqi Al completed a draft securities law in Iraq, after consulting with a number of international experts, At the forefront of the American Stock Exchange to make the specifications of Iraqi law in the global reality, not a slogan ».

He pointed to "update» phases of the project in the form in which Al makes it compatible with the requirements of modern investment and circulation mail and link with the outside stock exchanges, the Arab economies and regional ».

Electronic trading

And electronic trading expected to begin implementation early next year. Salam said that this system Al important results in strengthening its ability to activate the potential investors and shareholders to benefit from the advantages. It will provide the possibility of opening the rooms bourse Iraqi territory in the provinces of Kurdistan and the central and southern governorates ». He pointed out that the market for a plan that would include the possibility of Al registering non-Iraqi companies in the Stock Exchange and the Iraqi Iraqi companies in Arab stock ».

He said Salam, who returned to Baghdad after a follow-up with a delegation headed by the President of the Stock Exchange of Trustees asked Tabatabai, phased implementation of the electronic system in Oman by the international company, The issuance of the new investment law which allows non-Iraqis trading on the Stock Exchange and the application and use of electronic systems, Al encourage and stimulate investor-Iraqi circulation in the Iraqi market. This means the high market value of the shares in light of the high demand, and increase the incomes of investors in the market and the wealth ».

The executive director of the market circulation that counts now adopted at the Stock Exchange and two meetings a week for two hours each meeting. The continuation of the process of changing ownership from the seller to the buyer in a period ranging between two and four weeks to prevent Al investor buyer of the sale until after this time. while allowing the circulation of electronic trading through intermediaries, according to spread their offices in Baghdad and elsewhere. The Exchange could also be held during the ten deliberative sessions five days a week, divided into two mornings and evenings, For two hours each ». He pointed out that it will be "investor who could buy the shares in the morning session, selling in the evening as well as in the opposite direction».

The sign said, "the number of contracts executed now 350, with the adoption of the electronic system hundreds of times, This means achieving high liquidity of the shares traded by perhaps up to 100% ».

Sotaliraq.com

-- October 4, 2006 12:01 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

TO TIM BITTS: being an old surfer guy from L.A., and having the pork roast in Fla, I'd recommend "SPENADA", probably around $1.69 a gallon. . and very fruity. . . lol

-- October 4, 2006 1:29 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

TO TIM BITTS: being an old surfer guy from L.A., and having the pork roast in Fla, I'd recommend "SPENADA", probably around $1.69 a gallon. . and very fruity. . . lol. . .now we'll see how many real old-timers are out there. . .

-- October 4, 2006 1:31 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Panhandler,

Beat ya!! We made our own SPENADAS with 7-up and red gallo wine.

You kids just don't know what ya missed!!!!

My boyfriend made his own surf-board too.

Girls were still girls then. We didn't surf--just looked cute in our girdle tight one piece bathing suit ( before the yellow poka-dot bikini) and ratted heavy sprayed hair that would break a base ball bat!!haha

Oh for those simple good old days. Although I remeber dad having a bomb shelter dug in our yard, that we later turned into a wine cellar.

ANd the foll Kruschev banging with his shoe in hand that Russia would bury us without firing a single shot!!!! I don't think the modern world knew about flying jets into a 110 story building or cutting off heads.

In fact I know they didn't 'cause there were no jets or 110 story buildings and the most used means of rapid transportation was the El Capitan Santa Fe railroad.
And the only character I knew close to resembling a Muslim was the magic carpet ride at disneyland which my family visited the first year they opened. Betcha don't know what an E ride is ??!!!

Does anyone remember what Oleo margarine was? I'll give anyone 50 of my dinars if they get it!!

And I'm not even on Medicare yet!!! Just born in an era when the clock spins triple time when your not looking!!!

-- October 4, 2006 2:50 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

to carole: i think i gotcha beat. . .i was at disneyland opening day. . .a whole book of tickets were $4.50, and after disneyland, we went to knotts berry farm. . . for free. . and panned for gold. .and i road the el capitan to albuquerque. . .and talk about wine. . .i grew up in san pedro, all we had to do was walk down any alley and get some from one of the slavs or italians making it in their garage, and yes i do remember oleo margarine. . .how about "IPANA" that's gotta be worth 500 dinars. . . lol

-- October 4, 2006 7:59 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to carole: oh yea, oleo margerine replaced butter in ww2, came in a block and had to be mixed with yellow food coloring. . . pay-up. . .when do i get my 50 dinars. . .i know i'll meet u and your husband at zelda's and you can pick up the tab. . that's fair isn't it. .

-- October 4, 2006 8:12 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

panhandler

What was the distinct feature of oleo?

Did you get Annette and cubby's autographlike I did?

Can't say I ever heard of IPANA, but have fond memories of picnics at KBF without the fences!!!

Sooooo...remember the street cars in LA?

Hey, you must have known half of my Italian uncles that were fisherman, amongst other things...lol

Wasn't the Italian currency called dinare? Who would of "thunk?"

-- October 4, 2006 8:18 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

pan..
you got the oleo award!! Actually the cube came with a yellow glob. I used to love to watch my grandmother mix it. Of course she alwats had to ad a little bit of olive oil.

Need directions to Zelda's.If you want your oleo prize dinares now, I will give you 10. If you want to wait until TDH, I'll tear off the corner of one....lol

Well at least our long term memory is in tact, now if you can remember what happened last week you probably don't have the aLZHEIMER'S GENETIC LINK...

-- October 4, 2006 8:27 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

OH my gosh,

One of my daughters told me just now that they thought our Realestate investor bud was in a dinar chat room....I never gave it a thought!!

Okay Lee, so which one are you?? Are you Roger or Okie or panhandler????

By the way, I have been meaning to ask you...

Did you go to Italy and Costa Rica to really open banks or are you looking for a place to hide when all the Middle Eastern countries decide to overthrow the dinare and establish their own universal currency??

Remember our other family
( Italian-Scilian) slogan....

"You can run...but you can't hide..."

Just kidding, if you are on this site, it all maks sense now... and you know we all love you to death~~~~~~~

-- October 4, 2006 8:52 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole.....

Thought I was going to win the OLEO award but that rascal panhandler beat me to it!

In any case....thanks for changing from "if" to "when" on the Dinar. My hunch was correct....anybody who has raised four daughters has to have a ton of positive energy.

Now scream from the top of your lungs "COM'ON DINAR" and set yourself free....

-- October 4, 2006 9:04 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Citigroup is already in Iraq up to their eyeballs....this lastest venture regarding Letters of Credit is icing on the cake and is good news all around.

======================================================================================
Citigroup announces the launch of a $70 million structured facility to support Trade Bank of Iraq
04/10/2006
Source: AME Info

Citigroup, in cooperation with US Overseas Private Investment Corporation ('OPIC'), today announced the launching of a $70 million structured credit facility for the benefit of the Trade Bank of Iraq (TBI), allowing it to issue Letters of Credit which would be confirmed by leading financial institutions.

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=2226

-- October 4, 2006 9:41 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to carole: ok, i figured it out. . . you and i went to different schools together. . .

-- October 4, 2006 10:06 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

TO CAROLE: Oh Carole, i'm disappointed that you don't remember "BUCKY BEAVER" and that silly song about Ipana toothpaste, and which boat were your uncles on, I think I went to every fishermans fiesta till 1964. . .and "WHEN THE DINARS HIT" I'm buying my own fishing boat, and retire up on top of Palos Verdes. . Oh yea, sorry Okie, but I'll take you fishing with me. . .my treat. . .

-- October 4, 2006 10:18 AM ∞

---

drivebyposter wrote:

The Democrat Plan For Iraq
By Doug Patton
October 2, 2006

We are coming to the climax of the mid-term campaign silly season, when so much is at stake for the two major political parties and for the future of the nation. As we approach the election, it has become obvious that there is a fundamental lack of understanding about the exact nature of the Democrat plan for the central front in the war against Islamo-Fascism, otherwise known in the media and in the halls of Congress as "the war in Iraq."

Many Democrats seem to believe that the United States of America is an evil, imperialist power bent on forcing liberty, democracy, prosperity and peace down the throats of a people previously content with tyranny, ignorance, poverty and violence. As commander-in-chief of the American armed forces, this thinking goes, George W. Bush illegally invaded a sovereign nation, overthrew its government and its leader, Saddam Hussein (a hero who was duly elected by his people with an amazing 100 percent of the vote). In place of this stable system of government, which Saddam had so lovingly nurtured for so many years, Bush callously coerced the Iraqi people into participating in a free election to determine their own destiny.

In the loony-tunes world of George Soros and Howard Dean, the current financial and ideological powers behind the Democratic Party, this kind of foreign policy is completely unacceptable.

Always willing to do my part to clear up any confusion about liberal motives and intentions, I offer the following four-step plan, based on my keen observation of the political scene, as a guide to the policies Democrats would like to pursue in Iraq:

Step One

The Iraqi court now trying Saddam should be disbanded. Saddam should be cleared of all charges, released from prison with our apologies and restored to his rightful role as the unanimously elected leader of Iraq. Anything he may have done in the quarter-century prior to his humiliating capture and incarceration at the hands of ruthless American forces pales in contrast with the war crimes committed by the Bush administration.

Step Two

All American troops should be pulled out of Iraq immediately. Greedy Halliburton executives should be left behind to put the country back the way they found it before the evil triumvirate of George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld destroyed the joy of life under Saddam Hussein. Halliburton should be forced to subsidize American taxpayer funds to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq's infrastructure. This would include restoring Saddam's palaces to their former glory, burning down all the schools and hospitals we have built over the last three years and, of course, helping to transport Saddam's WMDs back from Syria. Perhaps, as a gesture of good will, we could even gas a few Kurds for him on our way out of the country.

Step Three

All detainees languishing in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in secret CIA torture chambers around the world should be released from prison, compensated by the American taxpayer for the horrible treatment that has caused them to hate us so vehemently, and then returned to their country of origin with a six-pack of Coke and a complimentary copy of "Girls Gone Wild." If they promise not to hurt us, they should be allowed to live here in the United States with the rest of our illegal aliens.

Step Four

For each Iraqi killed, either by the imperialist American forces or by the brave al-Qaeda freedom fighters who sacrificially blow themselves up on a daily basis, compensation in the amount of one billion dollars should be given to the families. These funds should be taken directly out of the obscene profits of American oil companies and, of course, Wal-Mart.

Under this comprehensive, four-step plan, these measures could be implemented on the first day of the Democrat-controlled Congress -- right after they vote to raise our taxes and impeach the President of the United States.

-----------

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/dpatton/2006/dp_10021.shtml

-- October 4, 2006 10:32 AM ∞

---

forCarlos wrote:

Democrats use strategy of ambiguity on Iraq: Experts
Oct 4, 2006 — By David Alexander

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush and Republicans have taken a battering over Iraq, but it's not because voters believe Democrats have a clear strategy for ending the conflict and bringing American soldiers home.

"If you ask people out on the street what the message is, they wouldn't know," said Joan Lowery, a 60-year-old insurance company manager, at a recent Democratic fund-raiser in Cincinnati.

Lowery is not alone. Only a quarter of Americans think Democrats in the Congress have a clear plan for Iraq, far less than the 36 percent who believe the president has one, a USA Today/Gallup poll in mid-September found.

But experts said the lack of a clear Democratic plan made no difference at all to most voters. Ambiguity has been part of the Democratic strategy on Iraq all along and has worked quite well, they said.

"For a lot of Democrats it is a very successful strategy to simply mirror the voters' underlying discontent with the war, but not to offer specifics that make them a vulnerable target," said Matthew Woessner, an assistant professor of public policy at Pennsylvania State University.

When Democratic politicians like Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania offered detailed plans, they gave Republicans the opportunity to expose them to public scrutiny.

"It is when they become specific," Woessner said, "that they … open themselves up to criticism."

Ambiguity makes some Democratic supporters chafe, but they understand party leaders are worried about alienating voters or being tarred as weak on national defense.

"It is fear that keeps them from having a clear position," said Paulette Meier, 55, after a meeting of religious liberals in Cincinnati. "They are afraid of being seen as cut and run."

But calling for withdrawal could be risky. While 48 percent of Americans favor withdrawing from Iraq within a year or sooner, 51 percent think the United States should stay as long as needed or even send more troops, the USA Today/Gallup poll found.

Democrat Victoria Wulsin, who is trying to unseat Republican incumbent Jean Schmidt in a suburban Cincinnati congressional district, said she had not pushed a stronger anti-war message because the public was divided and it might alienate voters.

Democrats also are more closely associated with the collapse of public support for the Vietnam War and thus vulnerable to Republican charges of being weak on national security. That makes the party wary of unifying behind plans for withdrawal.

They have tried to address the issue by fielding candidates with military credentials, said Cal Jillson, a professor of political science at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

"So their strategy is just not to do anything that will allow the Republicans to paint them as not dependable with the safety of the American public."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2526023

-- October 4, 2006 11:15 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Okie,

FIVE daughters!!! not four. They Are now ages, 41,40,38,35,32.

I HAVE 7 GRANDSONS, AND 5 GRANDAUGHTERS.
Keeping up with it all requires a bunch of energy and a whole lot of insanity.

Of course I remember Bucky Beaver and Ipana toothpaste.
My family were Colgate diehards though.

Okay somemore "old timers triva"

If you first car was older than a 52 Chevy, you are older than me. If you ever paid less than 17cents for a gallon of gas or less than 15 cents for a loaf of bread, and 5 dozen egss for 1 dollar, or less than3cents for first class postage--yeo you got it! You are a really old buzzard!! And these were the prices of things when I was in college.

By the way my first job as a college degreed Registered Nurse paid $350 a month. AS A NURSE CONSULTANT i NOW MAKE $75.00 an hour.

The sad thing is, I really think we had just as much or more liquid cash in those days. Oh Yea a cup of Winchells coffee was 5 cents.

My uncles had the fishing boats with the big nets and big rolls of salami drying on the ropes!!! lol

Oh!!! Remember the Long Beach Pike??? I was also one of the first riders on the roller coaster at Pacific Ocean Park!!!!!

-- October 4, 2006 12:33 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

driveby poster;

Thank you so much for your expose^ on the Democratic Party. It validated our decision to leave that party years ago, even though my father didn't speak to me for 4 years!!!haha

He finally succumbed to my decision when Ronald Reagan changed parties.

We were no sooner on good speaking terms again, when I decided not to be Catholic anymore!!!!

Unintentionally, of course, I was just determined to go against the tide of my heritage!!!

I've said many times, If my father were still alive, and knew we were all dabbling his hard earned and saved money,in the "camel jockeys" currency, he would disinherit us all.

At any rate, you are a brillant satirest and I wished you could get a spot on prime time CBS news with this piece.

-- October 4, 2006 12:44 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Ronald Reagan Quote: "I never left the Democratic Party. The Democrats left me!"

-- October 4, 2006 1:23 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Ronald Reagan Quote: "I never left the Democratic Party. The Democrats left me!"

-- October 4, 2006 1:24 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

To all:

Has anyone ever stopped to think how glim our Dinar investments would be if our President was not a third generation oilman and our VP was not a Halliburton guy????

Not to mention all of their ties to the Trilateralist Commision. Hmmmmmmmm.....

-- October 4, 2006 2:13 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

For Carlos:

I personally think that the Repubs. need to keep a hard drive on the issue that Dems in Congress will go straight to impeachment proceedings and equate that distration with the impeachment era of Slick WIlly which probably side tracked this country to make us extremely vulnerable to the 9/11 attack.

When our govt. was so distracted with internal chaos we were not looking over our shoulders at the parts of the world that were advancing their evil schemes to destroy us.

-- October 4, 2006 2:21 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

To all:
Who in their right REPUBLICAN mind would vote to put a openly homosexual man in office and not expect Pediphile issues to surface???????!!!!

I'll tell you who! Spineless conservatives that think you can be " politcally correct" and still hope for conservative values in our country. Fools!!!!!

Hey I wonder if GLAD, the ACLU and Moveon.org. are going to try to save this guy. By the way who is now hiding out in Alcohol Rehab.

I vote for sending him to the "weaner wacker" division of the penitenury in West Va.

There were alot of these creeps who penitrated the Republican Party years back when stupid campaign promoters were at their mercy to support them or have law suits and criticism of being intolerant.

What is the old saying---pay now or pay later?

-- October 4, 2006 2:39 PM ∞

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drivebyposter wrote:

Waiting for the imam's return to Earth
October 03, 2006

THE followers of Moqtada al-Sadr believe that the US invaded Iraq to prevent the return to Earth of their sect’s messiah-like figure, the Mahdi, or 12th imam.

At a prayer service in the central Iraqi city of Kufa on September 15, the cleric told a crowd of thousands that the Americans were collecting a dossier on the Mahdi to prevent his return.

Hojatoleslam al-Sadr and his advisers are convinced that the Americans want to destroy Islam and stop the Mahdi. “Whatever they did in Afghanistan and Iraq are all attempts to hijack the Mahdi’s return.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2385384,00.html

I didn't know the US invaded Iraq, not to protect the security of the US against future attack, nor for the oil, but to stop the Mahdi's appearance.

-- October 4, 2006 3:39 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Received this in from one of my rowdy friends in the sandbox. I'm still searching for more details. I thought this was going to be voted on towards the end of the year.

Anybody seen anything on
this?

=======================================================================================
Iraqi parliament to vote on draft investment law on October 12.

By Kawther Abdul-Amir
Baghdad, Oct 4, (VOI) – Iraqi parliament 42nd session was adjourned to Thursday after delaying a vote on a draft investment law till October 12.

The parliament in its 42nd session "discussed a draft investment law while a vote on the draft will take place on October 12," said Parliament speaker deputy Khalid al-'Atiah.

Thursday's session is scheduled to continue a discussion of the draft investment law and a draft provinces law, he added.
The draft investment law received reservations by some parliamentarians as to the concessions and taxes exemptions given to a non-Iraqi investor.

The draft law gives an investor a ten-year-exemption of taxes and 50 years of unpaid rental of land plot where the economic facility would be built.
Some Iraqi law makers see 30 years of unpaid rental is more satisfactory.

-- October 4, 2006 8:39 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,
No I've been on some sites, but I use my own name, "Roger". I'm comfortable being myself.

DriveByPoster, ForCarlos,

Same style, I assume you are the same one.

Republicans or Democrats, well I dont know, same s..t in different wrapping. I would say I'm conservative, but that doesnt mean Republican. Mostly its a choice of lesser evil. Democrates more so, and Republicans maybe a tad less, not much, but nevertheless, same s..t.

Once the elected reps move up to the hill in Washington, they are getting straight in to the political mob. The word Washington is in general a bad word, when it associates with goverment.

One president might be better or worse than the other, and we are all free to have our opinion about that, but a continous broad side is always launched on any and all issues from the opposing party. Dont think one second one pary is better than the other. It is, by being so right about it, that it motivates the endless"undressing, disclosures, unveiling," etc of the other side. Always an assumption that there is a hidden cloaked agenda.

Take the issue of Iraq, mistakes....plenty.

If I would say that there was a long series of them and they are still played out, would that immediately make me a Democrat? For a hardcore Republican pary member, I would probably be a person that would undermine the willingness to fight, give aid and comfort to the enemy, and probably be disloyal.

It's so much rubbish and puke coming out of the parylines, and the common sense, well you can find that amongst softspoken ordinary people on the street, among the crowd, seldom or never any common sense out of the partylines.

I guess they're trying in their way to do as best as they can, after all, democracy is one of the most clumpsy tools of governing there is. It's the best we've got but by it's nature it is set up to counter balance itself.

Any action from one party WILL trigger a re-action from the opposing party.

That's not in itself wrong, but when the issue is lost, the rhime and reason is lost, the logic and sanity is lost, the behavior is close to tragic/comic.

If we say YES, they will say NO.

Forget about the issue a couple of years, come back and say NO, then they WILL say YES.

Our best and most efficiant branch of our government, our Executive Branch, with the President in charge, is our daily runner of things. Our legislative branch, however have an idea that they will interfere and run things for our executive branch. They have not figured out yet , after more than 200 years, that they are put there by us, to figure out laws, not run the country.
The Judicial branch, a bunch of lifetime elected judges, that are all close to Rigor Mortis, a perfect mediator, are too afraid to show any power at all, but are more than happy to give any Limelight to the President and Congress, so they will not be disturbed in their sleepy sessions of interpretation of laws, that in itself has to be translated for anyone to understand one damn word what they are saying.

-- October 5, 2006 1:03 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,
I must admit that I agree with most of what you have described.

This last couple of years though is the worst I have seen it in my lifetime.

The Demos are so blinded sighted with hate for this administration, that many of their quasi legitimate issues have taken back seat to their hate and spite towards this administration.

I think that what is beginging to be a prevalent trend is our governments sense of direction seems to be always with a global consideration. NOt necessarily what is good for the American sitzen who is footing the bill for the world.

I feel so overwhelmed sometimes and the bigger the global picture gets the smaller I and my patriotic endeavors do too.

Soooooo, what I have chosen to do to survive is to draw a small circle around my environment. To have as much impactas I can in and on that circle. To try to pass on what my family coupled with our society's former value system and try to promote decency and a sense of wellness to all I can influence within that circle.

I try to focus on the purpose of the foundation of this great nation. Starting with correcting the concept of religion. SO many people gave their total lives and comforts to promote that.

SOme have perverted those efforts. It was established that Americans would have freedom OF religion---not freedom FROM religion.

SO I have taught my family to hold dear to that truth and teach it to their children.

Whether he means it or not, I agree with Bush's statement of Faith, Family and friends.

You know I think the contributors to this site have a whole lot of brains. I sense that most have a whole lot of heart too. And while the hope of wealth is what binds us together, I truly believe that God will not bless any of us unless we are going to give something of that blessing back.

I may be a little ldealistic or off the mark, but I truly believe in kindred spirits accomplishing much.

If I could ask anything of this group that has come to this Hedonistic chat room, it would be for all of us in the quiet of our hearts think of some thing we would do to give back some and help make someone elses life or situation better once our blessings come.

I have one special thing that I want to do in honor of my grandmother who had one special desire in life, but no means to accomplish it.

She worked in a factory and would sit at a bus stop everyday to go to work. Once she retired, her dream was to be able to go to a bus stop at 5am in the morning and give one poor little lady who was going to work to support her family a million dollars. That was her fantasy. I would give anything to be able to do that in her memory.

But my grandmother was a very special person. SHe used to make a loaf of balony sandwhices on Saturday mornings and ride the bus to 5th street and give the hobos the food.

That was one of many things that she did that only a few people knew about.

She had a deep respect for her Creator adn this seemed to keep everything in order and proper perspective in her life. AND THE PROOF WAS--- you never saw her without a smile and a kind word to give somone. ANd she had a knack for knowing exactly when and how those virtues were to be used. ANd she blessed many people.

She used to have many sayings, but the one that always sticks out for me is: three things worth dying for--your faith, country and family, and if some disease doesn't get you --you will give your life for one of the three.

I would welcome to hear other's fantasies of what goodwill the dinar wealth will bring to memebers of this group.

I have had this dicussion woth all of my friend who have bought dinars. ANd you want to hear something funny(?)

The ones who were only able to buy a few ( $1500 worth) have the biggest fantaseys.

Oh well, I am going to bed. I have a 3 day work assignment starting tomorrow.

I did try to call my Realestate bud tonight, but he is still in COsta Rica. According to his wife he will be returning on Friday.

Thanks for all the dialogue. This is fun.

-- October 5, 2006 2:12 AM ∞

---

Mark Foley wrote:

An open letter to the members of Truck and Barter:

Hi, I'm Mark Foley, retired Congressman...I heard about your blog from a friend...Until recently, I helped run America...I once missed a vote, in Congress, because I was chatting up a boy, on the internet. Instead of yes or no, I wanted YES YES YES!

I've been part of the governing elite of America till recently.. Aren't you proud to be an American? Now, Everybody's going after me just because I've been in the news, going after pages. Hey, don't blame me! I'm a GOP! I'm a Gay Old Republican! I'm a drunk! I like my Johnny Walker! A priest molested me! It was Bing Crosby, from The Bells of St. Mary! The dog ate my homework! When I get out of the joint, I'm going to turn over a new page!

Too bad Johnny Cochrane died. He could get me off...He had a way with words, "if the instant message does not fit, you must aquit"...maybe I'll ask my singer buddy Michael Jackson, for some advice. Boy, He always seems to be getting off...He'll help me, with the charge, to: "Beat iiitttt!" The charge I mean.

Reminds me of a song Michael wrote for me: "Billy Jean, is not my love...she's just a girl, turns out, boys are the one...give Mark a chance, he'll molest your son....OOO OOO aaah" (grab crotch) I digress...

Oh, well...as a fag...Sorry, I mean gay man, I guess I'll have to accept my punishment. That's right...They'll send me to prison: a large building, with hundreds of horny, sex starved men, with nothing to do....no sexual outlet...on second thought, I think I'll plead guilty, and I'm asking the judge for a stiffer sentence...if you know what I mean.

Sincerely,
Mark Foley,
Retired Congressman

-- October 5, 2006 2:28 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Roger!
It seems the problem the People of America have is how the Politicians in Washington have set up their system.
They pass laws but exclude themselves from the masses. They set up the PAC system, which is a legal way for saying bribe me, they immune themselves from local laws when in session, they submit themselves to a cattle call of the herd under the banner of "Party Loyality" ignoring the fact their leaders are paid by the big corporations to pass laws to their benefit, and not what is best for America's citizens. They have given away the house to individual ethnic groups to gain votes, etc.

I keep saying that one day the American Citizen will say enough is enough and force the politicians to set term limits, so this type of,"you kiss my ass and I will smooch yours too" will stop. Our leaders on both sides are guilty of the highest treason against its citizens. They have passed bills such as Nafta which has done more to harm the internal economic strength of American than any other bill passed. Millions of lifestyle supporting jobs were loss to lower wages. Thesejobs flatly disolved into someone elses job over seas. Our Government Leaders of both parties agreed in unison to allow this to happen to our citizens, then they put out garbage information they want you to believe so you will think your better off.
Example: The unemployment figure the governments puts out is bogus. Why! if you are not receiving unemployment benefits, and still unemployed you are not counted as unemployed, therefore they can manipulate the fiqure.
Our national debt accounting system is bogus. They violate so many accounting principals its become a joke. If a CPA kept corporate books the way our government does they would be in prison. The Enron scandal is pissant compared to our politicians erasible penciled accounting books.
Sorry! Just had to rant a little....I get so disgusted with the whole scallawag bunch.
This morning I recieved a call from Mark Foley this AM. He stated, things have been a little rough these past few days, and he thought maybe I would like to go have a stiff one with him this afternoon.
Well! I guess when in Rome....

-- October 5, 2006 8:35 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

TO CAROLE: OK CAROLE, I ROAD THE CYCLONE RACER AT THE PIKE, HAD MY 13TH BIRTHDAY PARTY AT P.O.P. AND MY SUMMER JOB WAS DELIVERING FOOD THE FISHING BOATS AT WHAT IS NOW PORT'S O CALL VILLAGE, I LIVED UP ON TRUDIE DRIVE IN SAN PEDRO AND SAW THE SIGNAL HILL FIRE FROM MY FRONT YARD AS WELL AS THE PIKE, AND I ALSO DROVE A '52 CHEVY DELUXE. . WITH TUCK AND ROLL, TEARDROP SPOTLIGHTS, AND 4 BAR HUBCAPS, AND ALSO HAD A 45 RPM PLAYER UNDER MY DASH. . ONE OF THE 1ST MOTOROLA PLAYERS. . .and gas was 11 cents, and it was union 76

-- October 5, 2006 8:49 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,
Everyone deserves a rant now and then.

As bad as it is out of the 160 other countries left to pick from, which one would you pick?

That doesn't really satisfy the rage some of the crap we have to put up with, but maybe makes it a little bit easier to swallow.

Pan:

Did you sport a brush cut in cuffed bluejeans and a bright white crew neck t-shirt with white socks and a pair of penny loafers?

I wore dyed to match angora sweaters and socks to match when I wasn't wearing a skirt with 10 stiffed starched petticoats.

Are we still together???

Well, my BD was Dec 1944.

I think I may still be older!!! Iusually am.

Well, got to get off to work.

Havae a great day

-- October 5, 2006 10:40 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Found this on another blog. Info seems hard to come by during Ramadan
Have enjoyed the polical banter.
Carole, welcome to the site. You have brought it to life for us.
*********************************************************
Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Value of the Dinar
Iraq proven oil reserve 120,000,000,000 billion barrels

At an average price of $50 a barrell

Equal to 6 trillion dollars

17,000,000,000,000 Dinar * .0007 = 11,900,000,000 = Iraq reserve funds

6 divided by 17 = $ .353

If the value was backed by Oil

Not including every other resource including water which could turn out to be a more valuble resource than oil in the long run

These are not exact figures just a thought I had about a possible value - added oil and the other 5% percent of the economy in the long run. Any thoughts would be appreciated again not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

I know this is my first post but I have been reading here for a while and appreciate comments. I really believe they have to revalue before the FIL law is pasted just like everyone here it might not be for the price everyone here would like to see but will have to be done. I will take a low revalue but over the long run it has to go high again. I am looking for a significant move sometime by the end of the year if not iraq is probably doomed anyway but over the past 3 months they have made significant strides excluding the violence side.

gl to all and go Dinar

Looking for $.10 by the end of the year

-- October 5, 2006 6:24 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Chris....

Welcome and thanks for the good info. I think a lot of people forget that Iraq was a rich country before oil was discovered, just due to their water and farmlands.

Your $.10 sounds great but I'm hoping for at least $.33

-- October 5, 2006 6:59 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Right, we have to say our political piece on occasion, if we can't, well, then we're not in America, so glad that stuff is of the chest.

Chris,

Yes I take 10 cents, but woulds be happier with 33 cents, even happier with 68 cents and even more happier with a buck. 10 cents seem to be more in the real range though, but who knows.

I do however believe you are assuming the Dinars value is based on how much, in numbers, Iraq are good for, either in oil or reserves.

We have comvered this in the past, and wont do a too deep thing about it, you are welcome to scroll back and read up on this particular phenomenon. I will just do a short brief.

Old monetrary systems, particular in the 1800's and early 1900's was runned on the principal that one unit of money had to be covered and backed by an equal amount of equity in the reserve.

For example, here in the US, one Dollar was guaranteed to have the backing of gold to the equal value of one Dollar. You could go in to a bank and get a piece of gold for the paperbill you carried.

Nowdays, currency are operating on the value of production of that country, and the issuer of the currency only have to show that they are rich, thats all. Show them Fort Knox. There is also another vault in New York City, with gold contents about ten times more than Fort Knox. The Gold trade market, where other states and countries have part of their reserve. When they buy and sell Gold, they just move Gold bars from one cage to the other according to who the buyer and seller is. This is part of other currencies backing of their Currencies.

However, taken all the gold in New York, and the Gold in Fort Knox, there is not gold enough to cover the face value of all the currencies they are representing.

I'm just saying this so you understand that Iraq can set their currency to almost any level they wish, within reason.

Adding up all the oil, and the reserve they have and do a calculation of how much that would be, if the currency is valued X ammount is meaningless. Well not fully, it has to have something to show, but it does'nt have to be a complete X value in backing = same value on the currency.

Another misunderstanding some might have is, that when they go to the bank, may it be B of A, Wells Fargo or Chase, and exchange the Dinars for Dollar, the bank must send it over to Iraq, and ask them to make the money good.

No, what the bank have done is to exchange x ammount of currency for x ammount of currency of the same value, plus the diference in selling price (and possibly a commision fee), so the bank is sitting on a currency after the transaction, that have more value then the Dollars they gave you( selling, buying price, remember).

They can either sit on it, go to the currency market, plainly just sell it again, and a lot of other things. What ever they do from the point they took the currency from you, and gave you the Dollar, they won. They, so to say, are laughing all the way to the bank.

The reason that you want Dollar is that's the currency you can use in your daily life, you have been brought up to find value in it, and know what it can do and all that.

If for example you have 10 mill Dinars, the Dinar RV to 10 cents. You will then rush to exchange your 10 mill Dinars for a million Dollars, and feel really good about it, almost that "puh I got away with it". For the bank, the Dollar as well as the Dinar is just another currency. For your social life you will need Dollars, thats the market you're in, but for the bank, you're the sucker.

So please dont look at your currency exchange with the bank, in that way that you are coming in to the bank with a bunch of I.O.U.'s, or that you're coming in with an old obligation where honorable men have decided long ago at a board meeting that this piece of paper must be honored, or that you are coming in with something that the bank haaaaave to pay by the law, believing the bank will put all the Dinars in a box, together with a skunk, send it to Iraq, together with a hostage note regarding the Iraqis banks directors daughter, they just captured, and demand payment for those "worthless Dinars" soon to arrive in Baghdad.

Oh no, you just walked in with more value, to the bank, and walked out with less.

Sucker.

-- October 5, 2006 9:59 PM ∞

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Ryan wrote:

You that are getting worked up on party partisanship need to relaxed. As a history and political science major, I've learned that these things (divisions within a republic) are a common trend. These issues that you speak of are not new nor will they go alway. Partisanship is an foundation of democracy.

Politics are Politics. So
what.
If it frustrates you to the point of being angry and your animosity is overwhelming....turn off whatever bias news program you're watching (ie. Fox, CNN, NPR, etc) and have a beer or a cup of coffee and RELAX.
Enjoy the democracy that you live in. If you get angry at the US spend some time and study some other country. You'll quickly realize that WE are a pretty benevolent country (to our people and to others). But you still need to realize that in all foreign affairs, we are looking out for ourselves first. So it might seem messed up at times, but just image someone else (ie. another country) with our power.

It would be horrible.

I love the USA, not because of capitalism, but because we are still the "city on a hill". We are democracy, the good and the bad.

-- October 5, 2006 11:43 PM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

Here is some news.

The Completion of Draft law on Securities and Stock Exchange
10/5/06
Source: Dar Al-Hayat

The Executive Director of Iraqi Stock Exchange, Taha Ahmed Abdulsalam revealed that a committee, consisting of the Iraqi Securities and Stock Exchange Staff completed the draft of securities law in Iraq, after consulting with a number of international experts, like the American Stock Exchange staff to make the Iraqi law specifications within the International frame, a fact and not only a slogan.

He pointed out that the draft is "complete" in the form that meets with the requirements of modern investment, electronic circulation, outside link, stock exchanges, the Arab and regional economies.

Electronic trading

Implementing electronic trading expected to begin early next year. Abdulsalam said that this system has important results in strengthening its ability to activate the potentials of investors and shareholders to benefit from its advantages. It will provide the possibility of opening the Iraqi bourse rooms in Kurdistan region as well as the central and southern governorates. He pointed out that the market has a plan that would include the possibility of registering non-Iraqi companies in the Iraqi Stock Exchange and Iraqi companies in Arab Stock Exchange.

Abdulsalam returned to Baghdad after an observation trip in Amman with a delegation from the bourse presided by Head of Trustees Talib Tabatabai. There, he observed the phases of implementing the electronic system by an international company. He considered the issuance of the new investment law which allows non-Iraqis to trade on the Stock Exchange as well as applying and using electronic systems, encourages and stimulates non-Iraqi circulation in the Iraqi market. This means the rise of market value of the shares due to the high demand and the increase of investors' incomes in the market as well as their wealth.

The executive director of the market said that the manual circulation adopted at the Stock Exchange, holding two sessions a week for two hours each and the continuing process of changing ownership from seller to buyer that takes two or four weeks, all prevent the buying investor from selling until after this period, while the electronic circulation allows the agents to trade through their offices in Baghdad and elsewhere. The Exchange could also be done during ten sessions within five days a week, divided into a morning session and an evening one, for two hours each. He pointed out that the investor who buys the shares in the morning session can sell them in the evening and visa versa.

He anticipated that the number of executed contracts, now 350, will increase hundreds of times after adopting the electronic system. This means achieving high fluidity of the circulated shares by perhaps up to 100%.

-- October 6, 2006 12:41 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

I truly can't see where
the "sucker" premise holds up. Because you have left on very vital step out.

The guy who walks into the bank with 10millon dinars to collect 1 million US dollars( at a value of .10cents) only paid about $7500 US dollars to make a profit of about $993,000.

I truly dont' see how anyone would ever be or feel like a sucker!!

I do understand though that whoever is holding the Dinar in their possession has all the risk.

Here's an entertaining thought. I walk into BofA with my 10 million dinar, that I only paid $7500 UsSdollars. Bof A gives me my million US dollars. In a flash I convert it to gold, platinium and realestate and other high valued international currencies. Just as soon as I complete all of my transactions (about 4 hours later).B of A finds out that Iraqi has dumped the Dinar, or Iran has nuked them......

Now Bof A will know what the real meaning of a sucker is!!!lol...

-- October 6, 2006 1:48 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

I truly can't see where
the "sucker" premise holds up. Because you have left on very vital step out.

The guy who walks into the bank with 10millon dinars to collect 1 million US dollars( at a value of .10cents) only paid about $7500 US dollars to make a profit of about $993,000.

I truly dont' see how anyone would ever be or feel like a sucker!!

I do understand though that whoever is holding the Dinar in their possession has all the risk.

Here's an entertaining thought. I walk into BofA with my 10 million dinar, that I only paid $7500 UsSdollars. Bof A gives me my million US dollars. In a flash I convert it to gold, platinium and realestate and other high valued international currencies. Just as soon as I complete all of my transactions (about 4 hours later).B of A finds out that Iraqi has dumped the Dinar, or Iran has nuked them......

Now Bof A will know what the real meaning of a sucker is!!!lol...

-- October 6, 2006 1:49 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

That damn RV that have eluded us for years....

I dont have a clue as to why it just wont happen. But I have a theory, as good as any other. follow me on an aspect that might make some think.

If you read back pages of this blog, this has been an expected event for many years now, every month there is new "Indicators", this and that happens, so therefore an RV must take place, but it just doesn't happen.

If we follow the good news/ bad news and use that as an indicator, well, it for sure is not a happy place over there in Iraq, and that would score points for the , not going to happen , side.

Our own analysis brought forward here by numerous people of why it shoud happen, sits well with me, but it doesn't seem to follow our logic.

Rumpours picked up from frends and people on the grund, tells us "something is going on", "cant tell for sure, but it's buzzing with rumours, that by x day it will happen". But sure enough, it didn't happen.

"Big oil" is coming in, after the investment laws are passed. Well, some are passed already, some not, what exactly this is, I'm a bit confused, as there seem to be a package of laws rather than one single law. Either way, that didn't change anything. It didnt happen.

They wont take Dollars no more at the currency exchange in Iraq, good, they're holding onto them.....but nothing.

"Dr Q" on the scene, yeah really, but ok, what does he say from his inside view, RV, when in a couple of days....for sure...you mean absolutely....good...but nothing.

The Dinar is buying nothing outside of Iraq, there are a lot of starvation, few jobs, and people are getting desperate just to live, can't do anything, except maybe plant bombs,or anything that pays, just to get a piece of bread to eat. Ok, here is a clear situation where even the dumbest economist can see that their currency is undervalued. But, nothing, this continues on and on and on.

So what is the daily agenda over there, well, the Sad'r faction revealed in the latest meeting in one of their Mosqes, that the whole idea with the US invasion, the overthrowing of "Saddam, the massgraves, and the terror, the Billions in handouts and spending, was for the only purpose of throwing the country into civil war, so the US can stop the 12th Iman from coming back. The US have reportedly already a full folder on him, but are lacking a photo so they have to do all this in order for them to stop the Iman. Cleverly planned.

This theory is about as ludicrous as the plot of the Titanic sinking.

The Mexicans were in sympathy with the Germans before the WW1, so the US decided to sent colera infected Mayonaise to Mexico via a shipment on Titanic. They had 5000, pounds of it, but the Mexicans managed to get hold of the criminal and evil jew Icenberg, that managed to sink Titanic, and ever since, the Mexicans have celebrated Sinko de Mayo.

True, this kind of conspiracy theories are mainstream over there.

Nothing of importance will change if a gun is not pointed to a head here and there, and the US have been far far to nice, kind, understanding, and naive.

The subsidaries, handouts and restructuring money handed out have gone straight into someones pocket, and there has been no accountability at all. From the time of the invasion until now, we have naively without any clear objective just toss a check to a problem believing it will solve it. Well, the money magically dissapears, and on the scene comes another Iraqi after the first Iraqi guy was dissmissed from his post (without any charges pressed) and the cycle repeats itself.

Now, Iraq had a lot of debts from the Saddam era, so the IMF steps in and sets the criteria for Iraq what it has to do or not to do in order to be a very good buy in the future, and get debt relief.

In the IMF you will find academic schooled individuals, schooled in the George Sorows philosophy, basically an old socialistic idea about zero money. The academic world attracts socialists and communist. And they know how to keep people and countries down. The idea is that there is only x ammount of money in the world, and if one country is poor, it is because all the existing money is already gobbled up by a rich country ( USA would be a very good example of how injust the world is, you are poor BECAUSE, those fat Americans are living in wealth).

Taken the fact that Iraq is a "recovering" socialist state, socialistic finance schooling must still be very prevalent in the area. Socialistic ideas have been morphed in to strong affinity into the Muslim world, as the communists, and Muslim have the same idea that USA is the root cause for poor countries miserable condition.

Socialism (or communism ) is very hard rooted in Russia, the whole Russian aparatnik, (The communist set up, and adminsitration) is almost untouched in Russia. Property rights are not aligned with free trade, but are aligned with state ownership. Recently many oilcompanies invested in Russia in different projects, had the bite of the Russian goverment, plainly, the deal is renegged, and the goverment is in control.

During the cold war, the Russians and Egypt, was closed allies, Egyptian president Nasser had big projects with the Russian involved, plus all their arnament was Russian made as well as the neighbouring countries.

After the Iranian Religious revolution, the Iranians have had a close relationship with Russia in trade, arnament and nuclear dealings.

Almost all "hotspots"in the world at the time, was a Russian sponsored communist or socialist guerilla. Remains of what we can still see in undeveloped countries. Central and south America was and still is a hotbed of socialistic or communistic guerillas, as well as on the African continent.

Socialistic schooling in "fair" economics, is today, despite the fall of the communist block, alive and well, and is adopted by academics in the US as well as in Europe.

Especially poorer countries around the world, have a very strong tendency to go the "Socialistic way" and explain their economic situation based on "social fairness" rather than true economical and financial principals. This make for about half of the delegates from the poorer countries to stand up and clap their hands when a clown like Hugo Chaves comes to the UN and claim that he is a Socialist and he will fight for the poor, and the US is evil.

The socialist economic teachings had a very easy time in the Muslim world. They probably can not see it as socialist economic teachings, but have integrated their view into their religion pretty quick, but the exact teachings are never the less, in origin straight from Karl Marx.

So here is the IMF, with a lot of socialist academics, with a ton of false economic teachings, straight in line from George Sorros school. A man believing in a common stateless world where everybody is equal. Nothing can be owned by individuals, all resources are shared equally and fairly and we will live happily after that.

How can the US be hurt?

Not militarily, we're too strong for that.

By setting up criteria for a loan reduction, loan forgiveness, and loan credit, but set such a rules that the country will get to it's kness in the meanwhile.

In the meanwhile as this is happening, the US have to pump in Billions in a situation that by the effect of the impossible financial criterias, will grow worse and worse.

Face it, we're hurting very bad finacially in Iraq, IMF got Iraq by the balls, dictating their conditions, and it is not helping the Iraqi man, he is desperate.

The earliest US administrators in Iraq, was inexperienced younger men, set in positions where they could write out big checks, that the Arabs, just cashed, laughed and walked with. Over a BILLION is still unaccounted for. Today they might have moved up in efficiency and understanding, to the level of a cornershop, "Taxreturn" company. The fiscal responsibility from our side have been a joke at best, criminal is probably closer description.

With a fiscal responsibility like that, it is not hard to come to the conclusion that the US have no plan, not even an understanding of how fiscally take responsibility in Iraq. -"Let the big guys in IMF take care of that, they know how such things work, we certainly doesn't have a clue, besides, I'm sure they all have some degree of some sort, how else can you do what they do. I'm not educated in this stuff, for me financial matters is just a blur, I'm just a US goverment employee, with a high school diploma, besides, I'm going to be back in the US in seven months anyway".

So the IMF have been given full authority as the financial governor of the Iraq future, is seen as an authority, it's deadlines, it's criteria it's policy is fiscally the mainstay in Iraq.

Despite all internatinal flair, Global name, and worldly reporting as it would be some kind of goverment and financial counciousness for the world, the IMF is basically a lender backed by banks.

Same as, a bank, loancompany, credit union, credit card company, carloan company, mortgage company or "Fast Cash" paycheck loan shops.

The difference is, that on the international scene, much more so than in the US, the socialistic idea, is so much more prevalent as long as there are a couple of representatives from an undevelop country, that has been schooled in "fair" economics, are sitting on any board. UN applause for Chaves was a very good lythmus test.

So IMF with half of their representatives from poorer countries,(read, thorough educated in socialism) are now sitting and deciding over Iraqis fate. Socialism, where no one can have, no one can own, and where you need to be dependent on the state for your living.

So Iraq is now sitting and doing what is good for IMF, and completely blind for doing what is good for Iraq.

US goverment have already proven it's complete incompetence, by giving away over a billion Dollars for nothing, and are currently hosing in money by the trainloads into Iraq, on your's and mine expense. so they would not be anything that even would come close to a watchdog.

The Iraqis are getting more desperate,hunger and bombs, the Iraqi Banks are trying to learn this new "free market" thing, after being a Stalinistic communist bank earlier, the IMF are telling them what is right and wrong, the IMF have their own socialistic idea, Iraq cant see who is right and who is wrong, but will take IMF as an autority.

US collegeboys writing checks don't have a clue.

Why RV? let the US continue to pump billions into there, that will hurt them.

-- October 6, 2006 3:44 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Yes ofcourse, You (or I) made a hell of a profit. THAT is not the point. The point I'm saying is that a bank WILL (with your newfound richness ofcourse) end up with the better deal, anyone that walks up and ask for an exchange will leave some of the value with the exchanger.You WILL have more value in your purse when you walk in, and less when you walk out.

Then if Afghanistan will go back to the Taliban, or if Iraq will have a missguided Iranian bomb dropped on it, or if India will get an epedemic that will wipe out all the Indians, or if a fault line will open up and California will sink into the Pacific......that my dear reader, that is another story.

-- October 6, 2006 3:54 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

I believe it was said by one...

I INTEND TO BREAK THE UNITED STATES FINANCIALLY!

Author......Osama bin laden

I plan appears to be working...

-- October 6, 2006 7:12 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Roger,

Your posts are insightful as usual. I too am a humble Govt employee that once had the responsiblity to watch the Iraqi reconstruction funds(one of many) At the time, the Iraqis were salivating at the idea of us turning the money over to them and letting them do the work. We knew better. Something changed however. You see the news and I see E-mail. It's discouraging to see but the fact is that our foreign affairs people will never understand that Arabs do business differently than Americans and so, I believe, will time and time again fall into the trap of assuming that others share our values. Back in the 1970's, I was in Saudi Arabia and got aquainted with the term "back-sheesh" which meant under the table money.

Obvious you have some understanding of the banking system. I'm not an expert and I won't stay at a Holiday Inn Express again but I wanted to relate a story that was told to me by a banking mogul from Trinidad. They had a fire in one of their banks and there was a little old lady that had a savings account there. After hearing of the fire she was afraid that her money that she put in the vault had burned up so she demanded to see it. This banking mogul uses this story to explain the banking business in that when we deposit our money, the bank loans it out and pays us an interest rate (or used to). The money doesn't actually sit in the vault. If it did then the bank would be losing money. He went on to explain that the vault is for show. The teller went to consult with the bank Manager who told her to grab some money from the vault and show it to her. She identified that money as the same money she deposited and went home happy. The point of the story is simply that people do not understand the banking business as you noted in you post.

Okie

I'm with you on the .33 cents RV. I'm looking for an RV so I can retire an not have to live in one. I've been part of the process of putting hurricane victims in mobile homes and travel trailers. Some are nice and others are not so nice.

Watching the age discussion has been interesting. I was born the year before JFK was shot, don't remember some of the clothing mentioned or when the first phonograph was installed in the horse drawn covered wagon. I wore a uniform in the military school I grew up in and so missed some of the fashion trends of the day.

To all, I enjoy reading your posts. Here's hoping for an RV soon!!!

-- October 6, 2006 8:37 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Just read my daily Horoscope and had a good laugh because Carole had asked everybody what their fantasies were regarding a possible RV and sudden wealth. She also had a good story about giving to other people who deserved it.

My fantasy, other than on the beach in Bali, is to walk into the nearest VA hospital and give every patient in there at least $5000 cash with no questions asked....just a thank you!

Leo
July 22 - August 22
Paperwork involving money might seem a bit overwhelming today, dear Leo, and you might ask a friend for advice or assistance. This person probably knows what it's all about, so listen - even though you might not understand much of what he's saying! Financial benefits might be in the wind, and you may be entertaining outrageous fantasies of what you're going to spend it all on. Dream all you want, but when it comes, be practical!

-- October 6, 2006 9:29 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

More Foley Politics
*****************************

Hastert: Scandal Is 'October Surprise'

By Ronald Kessler

Calling the timing "suspicious," House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert said the delay in disclosing former Rep. Mark Foley's improper messages to male pages has put kids at risk.

Story continues below...

In an interview with NewsMax.com late Thursday, Hastert said anyone who knew of the sordid instant messages Foley was sending to congressional pages should have notified authorities immediately.

"If somebody knew of these messages and didn't come forward, they're putting kids in jeopardy — for a year, for a month or for a day," the Illinois Republican said. Press reports indicate that several of Mark Foley's instant messages were three years old. Other media outlets have confirmed that one or more third parties were shopping a story about Foley's e-mail almost a year ago.

As evidence that Democrats were involved in the timing, Hastert said the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee had Foley's explicit electronic messages before Hastert did.

"The DCCC was ready to go," Hastert said. "We were told by sources that they had that information on a Thursday night before we did, or Wednesday. They were up ahead of us for a day before we ever knew it was going to happen [on Friday]."

Hastert said the messages came out "on the last day after Foley can't get his name off the ballot, and we're leaving for a national campaign, and then this thing falls. It's kind of an October surprise, I guess you'd call it."

When he saw the Washington Times editorial calling for his resignation, Hastert said he wondered what Tony Blankley, the editorial page editor, was thinking.

"Why didn't he talk to me?" Hastert asked. "I've known him for years. I could've told him a lot of things that he took for granted that weren't necessarily right. I'm not angry. I figure this is politics. I've learned that you don't get angry in this business, because if you do, you don't get too many things done."

If he resigned as speaker, Hastert said, "That would throw us in a whole speaker's race right in the middle of an election, which means we wouldn't get our message out. And I think that would be cataclysmic to the party, it'd be cataclysmic for our message, and would not be good, period, for anybody."

President Bush on Thursday called Hastert to thank him for the way he has handled the matter.

"The president thanked him for going out and making a clear public statement that said the House leadership takes responsibility and is accountable," White House deputy press secretary Dana Perino said.

Also yesterday, the House Ethics Committee voted unanimously to set up an investigative subcommittee to look into the scandal.

On Thursday in an appearance outside his district office in Batavia, Ill., Hastert said he and Republican House leaders were "taking responsibility" in the matter and that "the buck stops here." But he said he personally has not "done anything wrong,"

Most accounts in the mainstream press report that Hastert's office was told about Foley's more innocuous messages last fall. They usually do not add that his office took immediate action or that the Miami Herald and the St. Petersburg Times saw the same messages and thought they were simply "friendly chit chat" and not worth a story.

In fact, after being told that the e-mails were "over-friendly" but not sexual, Hastert's office informed the clerk of the House, who contacted Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., the chairman of the Page Board. Shimkus and the clerk then met with Foley, a Florida Republican, and told him he should cease any communication with the page who had received the messages.

Hastert's office never saw the messages because of a desire by the page's mother to protect his privacy.

"You know, the press has its own values and where it wants to be," Hastert said. "The fact is I really didn't know any of this stuff until last Friday, almost a week ago. And when I did, Foley was gone within an hour."

Immediately following the disclosures of Foley's explicit messages last Friday, Hastert asked attorney general Alberto Gonzalez to begin a federal probe of Foley and the case.

Double Standard

That "didn't necessarily happen" with past scandals involving such Democrats as Rep. Daniel B. Crane of Illinois and Rep. Gerry Studds of Massachusetts, Hastert said. "But we acted when we found out. So in that sense, there is a double standard [in the way the press has treated the current scandal and the Republican leadership]."

Hastert said he looked out the window of his home in Illinois last night and saw at least a dozen trucks.

"I thought I was in Folsom Prison with lights shining on my house and in the windows and in the bedroom," he said. "I thought. ‘Man, what's going on here?' That was at three o'clock in the morning. So the press is there, and they're feeding on this, and I don't think they have much more to talk about in Washington right now, so it's just full time. They're looking for a story, for sure."

As for claims by Kirk Fordham, a former aide to Foley, that he informed Hastert's office of problems with Foley and pages at least two years ago, Hastert said, "You know, people are making accusations that haven't been proven. We're going to have an investigation, we've got the FBI and the Justice Department and the attorney general in Florida doing investigations, plus the House ethics committee. I hope to get down to the bottom of this — who knew when, where, whatever."

Referring to Fordham, Hastert said, "I know what he is saying now, and what he said two or three days ago, that he worked for the man for 10 years, and he [Foley] never did anything wrong. So there's a little discrepancy in the descriptions here."

Fordham's lawyer named Scott Palmer, Hastert's chief of staff, as one of the people Fordham allegedly talked with about Foley's inappropriate behavior with pages. Fordham said the discussion took place sometime between 2002 and 2004.

Palmer said, "What Kirk Fordham said did not happen."

Louis Freeh

Hastert said he talked with former FBI Director Louis Freeh about heading the investigation into the page scandal, but Freeh said he would have to have the agreement of Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

"I ran that by her, and she just wasn't going to do anything," Hastert said.

Asked if he thinks the page program should be ended, Hastert said, "We've had the page program since 1822. A lot of people in politics today came through the page program and learned a lot from it. It's a huge chance in a lifetime to do something like that if a kid's interested in government. But on the other hand, I've asked that we bring a blue ribbon panel to make sure whatever we do in the future is safe. I think that's [ending the program] one of the alternatives we honestly have to look at. We're going to find the best people, and we're going to work at it."

Hastert said the scandal will have some effect in the November elections. But he said, "I think most of these races are local races, and they're going to vote on what their congressman says that he or she is going to do. But it does affect some people. What we need to do is turn it around, and I hope we can quickly."

No Ideas

Hastert said the Democrats will feed on the scandal because they have no ideas or substantive strategy for improving and protecting the country.

"What we try to do, and what we have done, is try to move forward on our border security issues; we've done that," Hastert said. "We also have taken on terrorism and passed a lot of legislation on that. We've got the best economy we've had in years, with the stock market as high as it's ever been in the history of the U.S."

In addition, "We've cut taxes and kept those tax cuts," he said. "So as a result, the economy's been great. And we've worked on energy independence, and we want to continue to work on that. So I think we have a good message to tell the American voter. I don't think the Democrats have a good message. So I think probably this whole issue of scandal just hits their agenda quite well."

Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of NewsMax.com.

-- October 6, 2006 10:16 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts.....

Thought you might appreciate the news that ConocoPhillips in Houston has signed a $10.7 billion deal with the Calgary company EnCana to gather and process heavy oil from the oil sands.

Looks like a win-win deal!!

Good news for North America....one more bargaining chip hits the table.

-- October 6, 2006 2:27 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Okie, thanks.

-- October 6, 2006 5:35 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

There is a war on. People are getting killed. American soldiers are fighting and dying for a better world. The future of a country, Iraq, and all it's people, it's men, women and children, is at stake. The President of the United States has said the future security of the United States depends on fighting and beating terrorists in countries like Iraq....And what are the media obsessing about? An old gay guy who harasses young guys. Ok, sure he's a pretty sick pervert. But I ask you, in light of world events, is this the story the media should be obsessing over? Is it more important than the war in Iraq, and the future security of the United States? Of course not. Once again, the mainstream media has proved it has no sense of perspective, the relative importance of different stories, it is focussed solely on the moment, the fleeting, and seems to be obsessed with sex, especially odd sex. Exhibit A: Monica Lewinsky's blue dress, with a white stain on it. Exhibit B: The emails of a perverted gay man. You know, some of the time, the government sure is retarded. It's different than the mainstream media that way. The mainstream media is retarded and focusses on the wrong thing. Exhibit C: The OJ Simpson trial, in which the mainstream media obsessed over the troubles of an overpaid athlete, who probably murdered his wife. Meanwhile, millions were starving in Africa. Once again proving the mainstream media is run by idiots.

-- October 6, 2006 5:49 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Here's my 2cents comment about the media's obsession this week with the pervert in Congress:

There is a war on. People are getting killed. American soldiers are fighting and dying for a better world. The future of a country, Iraq, and all it's people, it's men, women and children, is at stake. The President of the United States has said the future security of the United States depends on fighting and beating terrorists in countries like Iraq....And what are the media obsessing about? An old gay guy who harasses young guys. Ok, sure he's a pretty sick pervert. No normal person would argue with that. But I ask you, in light of world events, is this the story the media should be obsessing over? Is it more important than the war in Iraq, and the future security of the United States? Of course not. Once again, the mainstream media has proved it has no sense of perspective, no sense of the relative importance of different stories, also that it is focussed solely on the momentary, the fleeting, the sensational, and seems to be obsessed with sex, especially odd sex. Exhibit A: Monica Lewinsky's blue dress, with a white stain on it. Exhibit B: The emails of a perverted gay man.

You know, some of the time, the government sure is retarded. It's different than the mainstream media that way. The mainstream media is retarded a LOT of the time, not some, and focusses on the wrong thing. Exhibit C: The OJ Simpson trial, in which the mainstream media obsessed over the troubles of an overpaid athlete, who probably murdered his wife. Meanwhile, millions were starving in Africa, and war ravaged millions, like in Rwanda. Once again proving the mainstream media is run by idiots.

In addition, the illegal and perverted aspect of the story are quickly forgotten by the mainstream media, as the Democrats, with their buddies in the media, change the focus of the story, from being about a peverted middle age man, into being a story that turns into a political football, to score points against the Republicans. Do I have to spell it out? A story about a perverted man going after children should not be a political issue about Democrats or Republicans. It should not be political at all. It should be about protecting kids from creeps and pervs, and stringing him up, at the nearest tree.

CNN? Certainly Not the News!

-- October 6, 2006 6:04 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Chris,

Is your brain hiccuping or do your fingers stutter??lol

Just kidding, your last 2 posts were oddly very similar, as though you pushed the "post" button twice. But they were too differentfor that to be the case.

Anyway thank you for your kind welcome and nice words. I have had alot of fun in the last couple of days.

I sense the frustration of all of us as we realize that we live in a very imperfect world.

But somewhere in time we became linked when exposed to the possibility of changing our destinys when introduced to the Dinar investment possibilities. And walla--here we are!!!

I just hope that we never lose sight that money does not automatically bring happiness. The only thing it might possibly do is give us more choices in life--and hopefully our already established characters will help us to make good and prudent choices.

Think about all of the high school atheletes who get these outrageous scholarships and perks at a young, immature age. All that money and fame and they go nuts!!!Many have ruined their lives before they evwen got started.

Sudden excessive money has caused men to abort their families rather than take better care of them. Because money can create a false illusion of no need for accountability.

SO my hope for all of my new chat buds is that we all carefully contemplate who and what we really stand for before TDH, and then stick to our lifes agenda .

OKAY I'll vote for 72 hours of sheer craziness!!!! Then back to our basic tenets of morality, decency, and goodwill to our families and fellowmen.

-- October 6, 2006 9:36 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Tim:
Most American's couldn't find Iraq on the map
Most American's can tell you who won the last 3 American Idol awards but could not tell you who was president of Russia, The Sec of State or The Sec of defense. Example: I was talking the other day at a client's office and Hamas was mentioned...the ward nurse stated, "I have heard of that country where is it"? Sad but true!

I have come to realize that a majority of our citizens do not have the steel that our fore fathers had. We have become the "You mean its not over yet" My God! we have been at war for at least 2 weeks......Most Americans think the entire region of Iraq is in turmoil....mention the 12 Iman and they look at ya like you can't be serious...

Most could care less what Iran is doing and as long as they get to watch Nascar,Anna nicole smith, survivor, college football, etc...Yep! as long as the herd is fed, able to breed occassionally, and have shelter, they will respond to any cattle call.......

-- October 6, 2006 10:22 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Chris,

Thanks for the observations, and comments. Let me just ask you to clarify a few things, got a bit confused. You were monitoring the payouts, monitoring the writing of the checks to the Iraqis, then something changed? I didnt really get it, was the practice of just giving them money abandoned, and then re established, or did it become clear that they just took the money and runned, and that was changed? did'nt really connect all the dots in a ducky row.

May I ask also, what exact capacity were you in, part of the opertion in Iraq, or were you sitting home counting beans?

It's always very interesting getting a report from a person that personally was involved.

What do you know about the missing billion?

Thuis will be a fun one, looking forward to get an insiders view on this one.

Carole,

Well, the Iraqi currency must move up in value before any of the dreams will come true. Dont worry, i dream too, but remeber, this thing have been stuck for years, with all kinds of good and bad, evil and loving forces pulling on it.

There is no hard facts, or hard declaration saying that it WILL happen anytinme soon. Our common sense says it will, but there is not much common sense coming out of that place. Things that is obvious, seem to go unheeded, and not done anything about.

Hang a vicegrip clamp on the lower lip on an Iraqi, and he will not do anything about it, but find that he will get used to it.

Cut the electricity, and he will declare darkness the new standard.

A flooded street from a plugged up soursystem is a jewish conspiracy.

These people are suppose to come up with something that make sense?, like RV their currency so the Iraqi man can eat. I'm not even sure they have perception of financial cause and effect.

To me it seems like they're thinking that money concept is just a magic blur, any opinion and wise crack leftis can tell any data, and it will be taken as gospel.

I've been in this for a half year, and have come to an understanding that they dont see any light themselves.

One Guru, declares that they can not RV because the interest rate is stable, and fifty other followers of that "theory" will go along.

Another Guru tells them, they can not Rv because they have a debt, and sixty five Iraqis in the finance department nod their heads in agreement.

One idiot tells them, they can not RV, because, the money in circulation have to be all be bought up with Dollars,when they are exchanged in the banks, and all the Dinars in the world will come back to Iraq in paperboxes, making the Dinar worthless. Six hundred an seventy nine Iraqis from the CBI to the goverment will then agree to that.

To me, any kind of sense, logic and reason, on how the Dinar should have been managed from day one it was introduced, have not happened.

What they are doing right now, is harmful for the economy, harmful for the Dinar and harmful for the Iraqi people itself. To me, lies, false datas, and assumptions from lesser knowlegable people are tossed around in one big mess.

Wrong priorities, wrong targets, wrong goals, are introduced, and it doent seem to be any idea to try to correct it, because there is always another Guru saying , yeah but....

So when it wil happen, good guess, sometime it will be moving along upward, but it might be a very very long time, or tonight.

Madness takes it's toll.

-- October 6, 2006 10:39 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

So sorry that "most" of the Americans that you are around have given you such a dim opinion.

I think your "herd" analogy is quite humerous.

I guess I feel quie fortunate that most of the people I know and know of are quite involved and concerned about this world. And I know several who made tremendous personal sacrifices to help communities affected by Katrina and other tragedies around our country. Not to mention helping those in need of words of encouragement, shelter and love.

I guess if I were you , I would start to try to change that awfully glim environment you operate in.

Did you explain to the person what Hamas is? That would have been a good start. She might have educated a few more people who would have educated even more, and maybe in time your world would take on a different auora.

Try ( for your own sake) to find " some glasses half full....."

-- October 6, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

sorry, I am begining to sound like a social worker!!!

Let's just all relax and have a great weekend and hope that my realestate friend comes home from Costa Rica with some great news!!!

-- October 6, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to carole: sorry i'm late, 2 of my iraqi vendors from baghdad were shot on thursday, and i spent most of the day yesterday at the hospital, these are 2 very nice iraqi people, that i've known for 2 years, and have very good information, and also are the ones to push me to buy dinars. . (they know something i don't)but as i spent thursday with them before they got shot, they had some interesting information, apparently there is going to be a major shakeup in the new iraqi cabinet, and i'm so sorry that i don't have more for you, but when it happens, you can say you heard it here 1st, also. . as i said before, i grew up in san pedro, so i had bleached blond hair, wore white jack purcell tennis shoes. . u know, the ones with the blue smiley on them. . .and tan courderoy levis, and pendleton shirts, and i'm older than chris, but coupla yrs younger than you. . .lol

-- October 7, 2006 1:31 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Pan:

Are we to assume that you are in Iraq? How were and why were your friends shot? Are they dead?

Are shake-ups in the Iraq cabinet unusual?

Odd that you would bring up "nice Iraqu " people.

I had 2 men fix my stove tonight that were from Iraq. They have been here for many years, but have family's and close ties to Iraq's situation.

I don't know if they were just telling me what they thought I would like to hear, but they claim that the Iraqi people love the US and George Bush. They a re drastically afraid of Democrats coming into office and the threat of a American pull out.
They calim that living under the Saddam regieme was worst than death and that for the most part the Iraqi people live peaceful lives that skipped a whole generation.

I didn't touch on the DInars because they know where I live and frankly, I got a sense that they were trying to be " politically correct".

They said something odd though,, that the Iraqi peopel are more afraid of an invasion by Russia than anyother people on earth.

DOes this make sense to you?

My brother who is 3 years younger than me still has a Pendleton shirt I bought him ( from May Company) in 1965!!
I paid $30.00 for it--a big chunk of my paycheck.

-- October 7, 2006 3:44 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

to carole: yes mam, i am in iraq, and the 2 gentlemen i spoke about are still alive, the one here with me has a collasped lung, the other is in baghdad, he was airlifted, and all i know is that he's alive, don't kno how serious his wounds are. . .they were shot because they were doin business with the americans i assume. . .and i really don't think the iraqis have anything to worry about with the russians, but i think we had all better worry about north korea, if the set off the nuke, all hell will break loose, and it wouldn't surprise me if israel went after iran as soon as that happened. . .and yes the iraqis are always doing shakeups, and i have a feeling that since condi was here a couple of days ago, that by monday, there will be a big headline from here. . the iraqi people do love americans over here. . .the ones that do business with the americans. . .always seem to have a fistfull of hundreds, the ones that don't like us are saddams old cronies who aren't getting any of the benjies. . .the iraqis all want a piece of the action, and believe me, there is going to be plenty of action in the next 24 months. . .i've been here almost 2 yrs now, and i'm in a great position to see the movement of the reconstruction equipment on a scale that i haven't seen since i was in viet nam in 1969, so, we'll just have to wait an see what november brings. . .i think all this crap with the politicians goin on now is an absolute joke. . .so some old republican wants some young boy, or the friggin president want's some young girl. . .what ever happened to what's good for the people and the country. . i'm not worried cuz some perverts hustlin some young stud. . can his ass and get on with it. . .we've got business to take care of. . .those are the guys we need. . the guys that give a shit about what happens to you and me the hard workin tax paying citizens. . .and if you want some insider info about pendleton, go to disneyland between october 1st and dec 15th, go to the pendleton shop in frontierland and you can pick up the last yrs shirts for about 20 bucks each. . .i bought 5, and when i asked the clerk what was wrong with them she told me they were last yrs models. . .

-- October 7, 2006 6:17 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Roger,

I was part of the Restore Iraqi Electricity (RIE) mission. We were contracting with American companies for services such as stringing powerlines, building towers and rapairing/building generation stations. I didn't write the checks but monitored contract peformance. We didn't give the Iraqis the money to do the work though the Electrical Ministry wanted us to do that. The reason is that the Iraqis move on a different timetable. If we do work in a substation, we cut the power for a few hours. Their approach is to cut the power for full year and "do the job right" as they put it. Can you imagine the power out to your house for a full year?

I worked in the Green Zone. We coordinated with the Electrical Ministry.

I don't know anything firsthand about a missing billion. Like you, I read about it.

-- October 7, 2006 12:14 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Chris,

Thanks, got some good insight there, I appreciate the info. Can you tell me about the power in Iraq. Reason I'm ointerested is that electiricity is one of the most important infrastructures after water, (sometimes they go hand in hand, guess waterpumps are electric driven). You can live without electricity but you can't live without water.

However, if you want to go beyond medieval times, you have to develop your electric grid.

From what I'm reading, the electricity is very sporadic, and I can assume the delivery system is not adequate.

Now, is the power generating plants not avaliable, are they too small or are they just in such a bad shape that they break down frequently.

I do know that the Iraqis are using more and more a/c equipment, and other appliances, much more so now than during the Saddam era. I have also heard, that private guys buy a big generator, that is runed on diesel, put it in a back yard, somewhere, and charges people to connect to it, so there must be a lot of humming generators, with a lot of wires strung actoss the neighbourhood.

Some are doing such a business with that, that they dont want to see the ordinary grid being buit, and are sabotaging the grid.

Are there powergenerating plants enough in Iraq, for the countries need. Are you aware of any power generating plants being built? this is a must for any incoming industry, so I'm curious.

Also , this has nothing to do with anything else, just curious again, do they have 220 or 110 volt system? I assume they have the 220, most other have. The 110 is very unique here in the North Americas, we were first getting electricity, and got the worst of the worst, but once you build up a system, you're pretty much stuck with it.

Rest of the world have the much superior 220 system ( after they learned about our mistakes), needing less gauge on wires, more lightweight motors, doing the same job, much less magnetic field interference and a lot of other stuff.

Panhandler,

I'm sorry for your friends, I wish them fast and speedy recovery. For the shakeup, well I really dont know what to make out of it, if it means something that will benefit the Dinar, or if it is just one of those endless shakeups that have been taking place since our first day in Iraq. Very few, if any, of the original players are on the scene now, people have come and gone in an endless stream, the Iraqi goverment have been a revolving door of people with big voices, wanting to do it their way, screw up and getting fired.

It's a little bit like in the fifties and sixties in the Central American Banana Republics, the tourists were sitting at the beach bar, a couple of tanks were rolling by, nearby, and the tourist asks the bartedner whats going on, the bartender calmly went about his tasks, telling the tourist that it was another coup, but not ot worry, it's over by 5 o clock.

Carole,

Would be interesting to hear about your friends knowledge of the Iraqi Dinar, can you pleasse discretely pump him on who exactly the "insider" is that he is refering to in the Iraqi goverment.

As for the "herd"mentality, well I am inclined to agree more so with Carls position on this.

The social veneer is what we consume, the smile at the coffe shop, the greeting on the phone when you cal a company, and the well wishes around Christmas, all well ment, and it's something that will lift us up and makes us smile.

However, that is a very thin social veneer, and whats beyond it, is the reality Carl is refering to.

I dont think it is a dark way to look at things, but rather an ability to see what's there. I just think that if a person is only aware of the social veneer, he/she cant see real causes and effects in life.

Just because a person can see beyond a social veneer, that doesnt make the person capable of seing it, a gloomy down and depressing individual. My take is the complete contrary, he will be able to smile even better.

-- October 7, 2006 1:15 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Roger,

I just answered your questions in detail but when I hit the post button, a screen came up that told me that my message will be held in reserve and reviewed to ensure that it is not spam.

It may show up. I'll wait. I'm not up for retyping tonight

-- October 7, 2006 7:01 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Chris,
What a bummer.ok sorry.

-- October 7, 2006 7:34 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

I have never enountered the "Spam screen", on most occasions though, after dialing in the security code, and clicking on "Post", the blog will go to the "wrong security code" screen, but it always seem to work, by doing it the second time, from that screen, as a new security code is presented there, together with the post button.

-- October 7, 2006 7:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Regarding your other option of getting gold.

I dont know why gold have been so darn hyped up, it takes a skip on a very very few occasions, but most of the time it's sitting there doing absolutely nothing.

Gold is a very valuable metal, have quite a bit of mystique about it, I have never heard of anyone getting the copper fewer, but it's a pretty inert investment object. It shines in the eyes if you can show a couple of goldbars, two armed guards on each side of you, in the back gound a vault door that says clong (with an echo) when they close.

Historicly this has been the measure of richness and wealth for kings and queens alike, and was the metal that backed the Dollar in days past gone.

Gold was sitting on a goverment fixed price per ounce for very very long time, $35/troy ounce of gold. This was going on from the depression era until the late 70's, when it was let lose as a free traded comodity.

Imediately it shot up in the vicinity of 850 bucks in a short time, but nosedived back again to about 250-400 range, where it's been sitting and wobbling very slowly since the mid 80's.

Last years it had another of it's "pop" movement, but is heading back to it's ordianry territory again.

I dont know what to think when I hear sales argument for gold, It's not a worthless metal, but it's a terrible investment object.

Some claims that you should have a small part of your portfolio in gold, I dont know why someone wants gold at all, it's not doing anything, just sits there and keep invested money locked up.

The allure of gold is not what it once have been. Today when you go to a mall, and walk by a jewelery store, you're bored and scan the rings, but a clown popping baloons nearby might as well grab you attention better.

That feeling of wealth and richness by wearing or having gold is just not what it jused to be once.

It might very well be a very nice and artistic ring , brosch, ear ring etc, and thats the value, more than the gold itself.

I had goldfewer once (it's very much like Dinar fewer), had my own dredge, and was living downriver in a tent, dredging the bottom of a Californa river for gold.

My richness out of that is the experience I can now brag that I have. For the gold, yes I was able to get gas, food and smokes, but I'll do so much better in the job I'm doing now.

I consider buying something that doesnt do anything for you, is really not an investment, it's more a guarantee that you have money if your dollar bill stash is burned up together with your self igniting Ford Pinto.

However, that insurance have been taken over more and more by c.c. bureaus, and banks. You lose your card, it's blocked and you get issued another one. Your money is insured in all kinds of forms if you are with a bank, so that insurance gold had in the past have been taken over pretty much by the bank you're banking with.

Gold coins, may by the fact that they have another value besides the gold contens have some merit to them, but gold coins are minted with a new offering constantly, so the chances of one of those are getting particularly valuable, as a coin is not that high.

Once it was status to have a gold front tooth, but today it comes across as cheap and ugly. You can restore your teeth completely today to a natural look.

Gold doesnt corrode, so it's good in electronics. If you can find one of the very very early computers, that today are demed, "beyond dinosaur" , those that takes six men to move, those from mid and late 60's, grab hold of it, and go to a recycler, a friend of mine got one for free, and made a killing in metal recycling.

Nowdays they have the technique of laying only a couple of layers of gold molecules, but back then they dipped electronic stuff in gold.

Gold have a very weird ability on the pshyce, if there is one metal that can tune in on the mind, it must be gold. Dont have a clue if it is vibrations, or frequencies, or what, but gold have the ability to suck you in.

-- October 7, 2006 9:01 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl, thanks for your comments. I agree with you. Most Americans could care less about Iraq. Good for them. Americans are wise for not caring about the war, since it doesn't really affect their lives. But that's also why the coverage of the war is so crappy, and negative, and the media would rather talk about stupid things, like Paris Hilton's latest boob job, or queer old senators. I just wish SOME of the TV media could be a little more intelligent, for people who would like to be a little more informed. I learn more about what is going on from websites like this, rather than CNN. CNN is a bad joke. I think the smart people in the country ARE the people who are informing themselves on blogs like this, or people who ignore the media, and watch Nascar, since they have figured out it is full of sh*t and doesn't affect their lives. It's only people who take the mainstream media seriously that worry me. My point is, there is a mainstream media "elite" in America, the CNNS, the ABCs and NBCs and CBS, and the New York Times, and for the most part they are biased, shallow idiots, catering to people's worst instincts, and not giving enough unbiased news about the war, in my opinion. Blog on. Some day, you'll be rich, if you bought Iraqi dinars. You'll be rich because you ignored the mainstream media, which is trying to subtlely satotage the war effort, and this president, and has been since day one.

-- October 8, 2006 12:40 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl, thanks for your comments. I agree with you. Most Americans could care less about Iraq. Good for them. Americans are wise for not caring about the war, since it doesn't really affect their lives. But that's also why the coverage of the war is so crappy, and negative, and the media would rather talk about stupid things, like Paris Hilton's latest boob job, or queer old senators. I just wish SOME of the TV media could be a little more intelligent, for people who would like to be a little more informed. I learn more about what is going on from websites like this, rather than CNN. CNN is a bad joke. I think the smart people in the country ARE the people who are informing themselves on blogs like this, or people who ignore the media, and watch Nascar, since they have figured out it is full of sh*t and doesn't affect their lives. It's only people who take the mainstream media seriously that worry me. My point is, there is a mainstream media "elite" in America, the CNNS, the ABCs and NBCs and CBS, and the New York Times, and for the most part they are biased, shallow idiots, catering to people's worst instincts, and not giving enough unbiased news about the war, in my opinion. Blog on. Some day, you'll be rich, if you bought Iraqi dinars. You'll be rich because you ignored the mainstream media, which is trying to subtlely satotage the war effort, and this president, and has been since day one.

-- October 8, 2006 12:42 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

All,

Ok have ben able to spend some time reading up on Iraq, checking CBI, and especially trying to follow the hreads, follow something that sticks out, or getting a handle on something.

I think I have fallen into something that make sense for me.

Remeber I was bitching quite a bit in the past over why the CBI didnt do anything about the Dinar situation, the low curreny value and the starving Iraqi man.

Well over there they have really no bigger importance of a life, so this is actually a lesser problem for them.

I spent some time trying to understand the detailed set up of the CBI, it was basically a crude primitive set up, where they in the banklaws are saying plainly that this is not a good model for free enterprice, but more an emergency set up.

Ok, big deal, the bank is working, and they can do reval with it, crude or not, so thats not it.

Remeber I was telling about false data, assumptions and IMF's involvement. I decided to start following the CBI's bank chief, "mr Shibib"'s statemetns, and check if I could pick up anything that stood out. Any can't, musts and wont's that he is saying.

Found it, in a speach he gave late last month (sep) in Italy for the "Paris club" (IMF, ofcourse) he said it. "Iraq can not start any developments as long as we are burden with heavy debt ".

So they key here is that the president of CBI thinks that Iraq is in parking gear until the debt burden is handled. In itself this is a false statement as you can develop and create a great economy even by being in debt. (we have the biggest debt of them all) It's not a good situation by being in debt, but it is not a stop on all engines because there is a debt.

Ok, we can't do anything about it, he is the boss, and he is running CBI, and he thinks Iraqis debt is the absolute number one priority. He have been a very heavy promotor of this idea, and IMF is on board.

In different statements the IMF criterias are mentioned very often. Also with reference to the Dinar, where the Dinar are refered to as hopefully getting the Dinar health back.

Folowing the track in the last months, the Singapore meeting (World Bank) and the visits to New York, regarding the donor conferance, that was on the agenda for about a month or so ago, it showed that this was basically the start of events to happen. Those were the places where the plan was promoted, this was the opportunity they had to deliver the plan on how to do it.

The plan seem to have a lot of US backing, where US officials are promoting and backing the plan.

The time when the debt reduction(read, loan forgiveness) will be done, will be comparably very short according to the plan. I did read in different articles, "in a couple of months" or "within this year hopefully".

The US pressure have increased tremendously for Iraq to get their act together, the security thing was mentioned as one of the hurdles, but from a financial aspect the loan reduction program is a program running on it's own track.

The search was a lot of clicking, and jumping, so I'm sorry I cant refere you back to all the pages, (I dont remeber where my .....what was I going to say?), but jump into Iraq financial and economical pages and you will be able to start piecing together this yourself.

So, in short.

1. The CBI boss, Mr Shibib, consider the debts are in the middle of everything, and wants to get rid of them FIRST.

2. The involvement in this is at full steam. IMF, World Bank, loan countries, US involvement pushing, and frequent sessions with all parties are underway.

3. They are doing a chock treatment, let the people suffer, as long as we take care of one problem once and for all.
(Turn off the electricity to all the houses for a year, and rebuild the electric grid, and have the job done right, Chris, you're right, thats the way they're thinking.)

4. Timetable given is pretty short, but wague, "a couple of months" is the projected schedule.

5. This will pretty much coincide with the coming oil invasion of companies coming in.

Based on this, I will hereby say, RV in the first part of next year. With a little bit of luck in the end of this year.

In one of the articles, one finance spokes person mentioned the value of the Dinar, "It will not happen in the close future, but tomorrow is not too far away." ( I dont know if that is an Arabic saying)

Ok I can live with this.

-- October 8, 2006 2:28 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Chris,

Hopefully, I will talk to my friend this week. I was told he was to back in the US on Fri. night, and to wait till next week to try to get ahold of him. However, I tried to call him anyway and his cell phone did wierd things. My daughter said it was because he was still out of the country.

Roger,

I have been involved in the precious metal investing since the late 70's. There are some curious trends that I have seen. The flux of the values of silver, gold and platinum somehow seem to be tied to the interest rate in this country.

The only real money I have ever made concerning gold is when I was "lucky" enough to buy low and sell high, take my profit and buy realestate where the realmoney was made.

I actually have made more money on silver, because I could buy more for less.

If someone had alot to invest in gold right now, they might see some serious returns, but you would have to be holding alot and be willing to tie up alot waiting for it to go up.

The risk, of course is that some ka-billionaire could decide to dump billions of gold reserves into the market and everyone takes a beating.

This happened in the early 80's. But thank God not to me. I bought silver at $4 an ounce and sold it at $27.

Then there was the big dump and in less than a week it dropped to $12and down from there.

I've never done real well on the stock market, accept for a few years ago, when a freind of mine who woned a pharmacy company, got an inside scoop on the pharmaceutical company MERCK. He was told that they had developed the Chickenpox vaccine and that the WHO( World Health Organiztion) was going to make an international contract

It was sellign for $24.00 a share. The event happened and I sold at around $48 a share. SInce then it has gone up up up and split several times. I would have been really upset, but with the profits, I bought our businesses in Palm Springs,where we worked our butts off for 10 years. MAde some decent money, but then got too tired of the Long Term geriactirc business. CLosed the businesses and sold the realestate AND MADE A KILLING!!!

I tell you, at least in our lifetime of experiences, Realestate has always been the winner. And we are not professional realestate people. I guess just been blessed to be in the right place at the right time.

My dad on the other hand made a great effort at RE investing and made tons of money in his lifetime.

Weel, all seems to be quiet onthe DInar front. Maybe this week things will stir again and we will all have more to talk about.

This whole issues rallies between sadistic and masochistic!!haha Certainly alittle mentally abusive.

-- October 8, 2006 2:50 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

A comment on false ideas, wrong ideas, fixed ideas or assumed truths.

Mr Shibib, the CBI boss, is schooled in economics all his life, have been involved since shool years with economics, and have had his whole career in economics, and have a very impressive resumee.

One thing sticks out though, he is especially qualified in debts, debthandling, debt restructuring and issues relevant to that part of economy.

Made me ponder.

If a fireman goes on vacation to a different country, he would for sure observe the countries fireladders, fire extinguishers, the color of their firetrucks, and what equipment they had.

A post man, would immediately notice the color of the mailboxes in this country, and be astonished why they have yellow and not blue mailboxes.

Mr Shibib, was brought back from retirement to tackle the Iraqi financial situation, a country that is heavily debt ridden, and have no functioning bank system.

As a specialist in debts, walking into the job in the Central Bank of Iraq, the first day, what do you think he sees.

I'm pretty sure he doesnt have a clue what color the fire extinguishers are.

Well it's his gig.

-- October 8, 2006 3:13 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,
Whataya doing up this late?

-- October 8, 2006 3:22 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,
With a bit of luck, your Dinars might be the best payback of them all. I must say though, that Real Estate, few things beat it, it's there, and as long as peopole make love and make new small little creatures that one day need a bit of land, the value will always be on the rise.

-- October 8, 2006 3:27 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

What, prey tell, did he see??

Ya lost me.

I'm always up late. Live on about 3-5 hours of sleep at a time, and not always at night

-- October 8, 2006 3:31 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

On the electricity problem in Iraq--

It is my impression from reading about the problems that Iraq is having in producing electricity that...
all their plants require oil to run them.

--Sabotage has been a problem in the production lines and this affects the iraqi resident in hours that electricity is provided. This problem is of course related to corruption (stealing of oil resources) and the insurgency issues related to security.

Infracture on electric production is one of the most expensive costs that the Iraq Government is going to have to invest in.

I think I heard that the Iraq Government has spent 8 billion dollars on these oil electric plants. When the production of oil flow to the plants are interrupted, local businesses are also affected.

The electric ministry is wanting to invest in plants that are not dependent on oil. The mention was made about nuclear plants. This is probably sometime in the future as these plans will cost the Iraq Goverment much revenue.

Soo--for the present, the electric production is tied heavily to the oil ministry.

Laura

-- October 8, 2006 3:50 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Sorry I haven't written in a while. I had shoulder surgery last Tuesday and I have been kinda hung up. It's been painful.

My sister tells me the RN did not give me a pain medicine before I left the hospital. I had quite a bad first day home.

-However, I glad to see everyone still hanging together!.

Love to all-

Laura

-- October 8, 2006 4:04 AM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

To activate and intensify the productive and service projects

Source: Al-Sabah 10/6/06

The banking sector announced the establishment of the first Iraqi company for bank guarantees by the capital of five billion and 450 million Iraqi dinars. A member of the company's board said that this company includes 11 Iraqi banks. It is hoped to start its activity late this October in ensuring small and medium loans ranging from five thousand to 250 thousand dollars.

He explained that the loan amount prescribed by the Bank is based on a feasibility study provided by the beneficiary after the analysis of data and then the bank introduce it to the company which will, in turn, analyze the data and information to ensure the acceptance of this project.

He stressed that this mechanism will contribute to achieve several objectives including the operation of productive and service projects and the impact on the absorption of labor and contribute to tackling unemployment.

Board member pointed out that the company is encouraging female component of the project (sme) of small and medium-sized enterprises. Thus, it will make an important foundation in developing the community capacity in different fields.

He said the Registrar of Companies had ratified the establishment of this company, which enjoys the support of the Iraqi Central Bank, pointing out that a minimum of shares is 400 million dinars and called other banks to join the company.

A member of the company also said that this achievement is for developing the performance of banks and raise productivity through launching loans to businessmen, plants owners and companies.

He pointed out that the number of private banks in Iraq is 24 banks progressed significantly during the previous four years and stressed the quest of the company for the development of banking services in Iraq to commensurate with the volume of activity expected after launching the reconstruction of Iraq.

Member of the Board of Directors also confirmed that the company based its activity on approved international standards and that the premiums are paid on time away from the old contexts. The Board of Directors had been informed of the nature and activity of similar experiences of companies in Amman and Lebanon. He added that preparations are under way to prepare the banking staffs, through giving them courses for credit officers on new ways of lending.

He concluded by pointing out that the loans were open for: commercial, service, productive, industrial and agricultural sectors. Thus, the company will operate and activate the performance of the productive and service projects stalled due to funding.

-- October 8, 2006 7:06 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger!!!!I need your input on a horrible thought I had (just before I went to sleep).

Consdiering the most recent postings about the CBI and product and service opporotunites for investors, is it possible that investors in those entities DO NOT want the dinar to rv, because of the effect it would have on their investments.

Think about it---if I had 10 million dollars to open a oil refinary in Iraq, think of what my US dollars could do at the current value of the dinar.

If the dinar RV's at $1.00, I would need to increase my capital investment 10 fold.

Condisering the instability of the region, I might not want to invest in that venture and find some other country to put projects in, where I could invest less and expect a bigger return on my money.

What do you think??? I have no financial mind on something like this, but is it logical to think like this?

I also feel that the US and the European Union for the most part ARE THE IMF and THE WOLRD BANK. Jaoan and China have some voting power, but no near the US and the european union.

I am so hoping my logic is wrong. Cause if I am right, we are doomed to a very undervalued dinar for a very long time or forever....

-- October 8, 2006 8:58 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Laura,

Welcome back, and hope you can continue to post despite shoulder surgery. If it gets too painful just put a pencil in your mouth, and use the ruppertip end to click the keys on your pjuter.

Yes I'm aware that they are into some heavy electircal problem over there, I was really looking forward on a good report from Chris on this, he did write it, but then the pjuter decided to not cooperate.

Kind of a bummer, when you put all inspiratin into a long letter or something, and just at the end, or when doing the last operation, the pjuter crashes, or deletes it or does something that destroy all the work you just created.

We had a posting from a contractor some time ago telling us that he was transporting some big generators across Iraq so I guess they are working on it.

C1Jim,

Ah good find. Yes there was an announcement some time back in a document (that was very hard to read) that the CBI was to set up a security market, besically a market where lenders and borrowers can go and do ordinary loans for projects. In the past all loans had to go throught the state, and be approved by Big Brother. Your posting shows that they are actually doing the set up, good, the banking sector of Iraq is doing probably the best progress of them all.

Carole,

Not to worry, as posted above, they need a market where borrowers and lenders can do an ordinary loan without having government interference basically. Like here, borrower, lender and a contract inbetween, thats all.

All,

Seems like no one got the significance of the posting I did regarding CBI Presidents, Mr Shibib, plan of action.

-- October 8, 2006 1:01 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

What pray tell did he see???? uh...you lost me.

I think I know what got you confused, you and I was sitting last nite writing two very long postings. Mine was posted just some minutes before yours, then I commented upon it in a later posting. If you go back and read the long posting about CBI's presidents plan of attack, you will get it.

-- October 8, 2006 1:18 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

What I didn't get was''you said "the first day that Mr Shibib walks into the bank, what do you think he sees?"

Then you stated he didn't have a clue about fire hydrants.

My question is what did he see???? Undervalued dinars--I hope.

You ended that posting with
"its his gig"

You had no other lengthy postings that I can tell would have answered that.

Unless you are c1jim also...

Also, can you please explain why the CIB or Iraq is so set on debt resolution. They are probably the only country in the world that is.

Isn't their oil enough collateral against any debt?

I wished that I had more time to engine search,even thought when I did I found very little.

I am on 2 week consulting assignment and when I get home I am practically brain dead. I will be done on this Friday.....then I am going to find a good poker game!!!!!

DO you play poker? DO you know anything about the game?

It is such a stress reliever, or better yet it produces stress in another part of the brain!! lol

-- October 8, 2006 7:45 PM ∞

---

VALERIO wrote:

Carol,
He seen debt, because thats his field of expertise. Had his expertise been elsewhere, likewise his priorties and agendas would have been altogether different. So our guy now is a debt handling expert, and thats not a bad thing.

-- October 9, 2006 12:01 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Valerio,

Oh now I see.Thank you.
I haven't met you yet.

Where are you from?

Habla Espanol?

-- October 9, 2006 12:12 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi All,

Different world today, and will never be the same, with N.Korea's stunt.

WWIII on the horizon, in my opinion.

I wonder what impact this will have on Iraq and our dinars???

Stock markets all over near crashing.

I guess I am pretty stupid, but I can't figure out why the world is so concerned about Iran and N. Korea's one or 2 nuclear capabilities when we know that RUssia has at least 20 pointed at strategic areas throughout the wolrd. That doesn't seem to get much attention at all.

Very interested in what ya all have to say.

-- October 9, 2006 7:33 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

I have been gone to New York last week so have been a little out of touch. I tried to catch up last night but crashed instead.

Roger, I do not see a RV happening at all this year or in 2007 regardless of how undervalued the currency currently is. Maybe 2008.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 9, 2006 9:59 AM ∞

---

C1Jim wrote:

Here is one more. I am not Roger, I am Jim, although, I tell my wife, people confuse me with Rob Lowe.

Maliki: Anbar would enjoy security, major reconstruction boom
Source: Al-Sabah 10/8/06

The Prime Minister initiated a conference of tribes' leaders from the Anbar stressing that the province would delight in security within two months.

Meanwhile the tribes' leaders stressed going on efforts to return security, stability and reconstruction and they assumed to prepare legal environment and provide reconciliation project and fight all kinds of sectarianism.

In the mean time Anbar Deliverance Council prepares to hold conference to Anbar tribes' leaders in Ramadi during next few days, said well informed source.

He added the conference would discuss secure safety in Anbar.
On the other hand, security services in Babil declared state of alert preparing to face escaping terrorist groups from Ramadi to northern areas of the Babylon.

-- October 9, 2006 11:53 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Yep....I think it's time to move my Warka account to Kurdistan.

I've read other articles that indicate Maliki has about two months to get rid of the militias and finalize the investment and hydrocarbon laws or his neck will be on the line. He needs to realize that Sadr is dragging him down and cut the apron strings.

This article is real world....

==========================================================================================
The Sunday Times October 08, 2006

America ponders cutting Iraq in three
Sarah Baxter, Washington



AN independent commission set up by Congress with the approval of President George W Bush may recommend carving up Iraq into three highly autonomous regions, according to well informed sources.
The Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker, the former US secretary of state, is preparing to report after next month’s congressional elections amid signs that sectarian violence and attacks on coalition forces are spiralling out of control. The conflict is claiming the lives of 100 civilians a day and bombings have reached record levels.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2393750,00.html

-- October 9, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Okie:

It may evolve into these three autonomous regions having three different currencies. Is the President finally believing the other sides contention that Iraq is a failure?

We might want to prepare ourselves for the demise of the Bremer dinar. We could loose our entire investment.
In the words of Chicken Little; "The sky [may be]falling." Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 9, 2006 4:56 PM ∞

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cope wrote:

why would they change currencies? we have 50 states in 1 country with all the same currency.

-- October 9, 2006 5:32 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Rob N. .......

My understanding of the three regions threat is that it was a shot across the bow type of warning to Maliki to get things done or another solution would be imposed on him.

I believe the solution would include three separate states with a central Government that would, among other things, spread the oil revenue in an equal manner.

I believe our President and Government are doing all things possible to overcome a very difficult set of circumstances. Their goal of turning Iraq into a representative form of Government is worthwhile and will be history making when they pull it off. These people deserve freedom.

From all I can see, our Dinar investment is still safe.

-- October 9, 2006 5:40 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Cope.....

Good point! They would have no reason to print new money for each region or state.

-- October 9, 2006 5:48 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Nevada and Oregon doesnt have different currencies, nor does Hawaii, and Pine Ridge Indian reservation.

They may speak French in parts of Louisiana, and English in Boston, but that's no reason to scrap the Dollar.

Scotland have its own goverment, and is pretty autonomous,but still part of the Brittish enchilada, an as far as I am aware, there is no Scottish Dollars.

A French, Italian, Spanish and German wouldn't even understand each other without translation, still they all understand their currency, the Euro.

I have no problem seing Iraq being split up, if that suits them thats all nice and ducky with me, maybe even for the better. I just can't see the NATION Iraq, being split up. That would be so impractical and out there, that I have a hard time considering thats even real for the Iraqis.

Our own country is split up in 50 different pieces. The Russian Federation is based on a similar concept, their states are called Republics, with their own regime, all of them.

Point to any country in the world and you will see, smaller republics, states or communes, with their own goverment and laws, within that country.

I just can't see what the panic is when talking about splitting up Iraq, There is no way, Souther Iraq, will become part of Iran, central Iraq, part of Syria, and nothern Iraq, part of Turkey or some similar concept. Nor is it even practical to make small completely independent states, each with it's own currency, military, bank system, and so on.

The big investments are done centrally with the Iraqi government, the flag, is the Iraqi flag,(Kurds object, ok),oil is bought and sold by the goverment, and any fraction or part of Iraq get their share of the total income, wether they have oil or not. Sunnis, the central part of Iraq, that have no oil. I have a hard time thinking that they are taking about an autonomous region, that is completely cut off, a nation of their own. They will have a couple of orchards, a lot of desert, and that's it.

Iraq, as a whole have debts, Iraq as a whole is responsible for it, reconstruction is a national issue, not a local issue. Iraqs border have been recognized internatinally for about 70-80 years. Whatever is outside of those borders, is NOT Iraq, whats inside is Iraq, even if they decide to move all the indians to a reservation.

The act of splitting up the Iraqi federal goverment into three different fractions, is a monumental task, and it will in effect bring all the regions straight back to square one again. They know that, the benefit from having one central goverment have never been in question, that have never been argued, or debated, all they are saying is to get three autonomous regions.

So be it, that will not affect the Dinar negatively, perhaps it's even better for the Dinar, they will have their own patch and make their own government laws. They must all comply , as here, with the federal laws, but if they want to forbid a bicycle reparman to do business within 50 yards of their cemetaries, because of religious reasons, thats their problem, and I dont care what laws they make about that.

I just don't see the panic in any of this. We're all living in completely split up countries, with states, communes and republics, and have a very comfortable relationship with our own currency, but when the Iraqis want to do the same as we do, we have an idea that this is the beginning of chaos, bankruptsy, and completely spoiled investments.

Dont worry, be happy.

-- October 9, 2006 5:52 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger.....

I agree with you....it could very well be a positive step forward for Iraq and would be good for our Dinars.

-- October 9, 2006 6:14 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

For those of us who have spent some time in the Middle East during Ramadan then you will know that Eid Al-Fitr comes at the end of the Ramadan period. This year it will start on Oct.24.

This is a celebration and party like you wouldn't believe and the locals jam the night markets to buy gifts and presents for family members.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Government would make their 10,000 dinar gift a little more valuable by doing an RV?

I think it would!!!!

-- October 9, 2006 6:36 PM ∞

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CYMRU001 wrote:

Hello everyone,

Keep reading all your posts and am learning a lot from you all. Thank-you and keep up the good work!!

I have been trying to do some research of my own, mostly through the internet, but only when my job, my 2 1/2year old son and 'she who must be obeyed' gives me time off from the decorating, allow me the time to do so!!!!

One thing that I did find was someone touting a way of opening an Iraqi bank account. It would seem that an Iraqi Dinar account can be opened, provided there is another US$ account in place to feed it. You 'simply' pay a currency into the US$ account which then transfers the money into the Iraqi account and turns it into Dinar.

Has anyone else heard/ seen this? I have started to buy a few Dinar here and there and am at 3.5 million, small change to some of you I know, but my wife has great plans for the house!!!

I am wondering if this is a good idea and if it is actually feasable. It would seem to make more sense to me to have the money in an account there where any changes to the currency (RV etc) would be automatically implemented to the account.

The seller of this informaton does not explain how to get the money back out again, or if this is even possible! Any thoughts please?

To a certain extent, I like the idea of the RV happening in 2008 as Rob N seems to think. This would give this late starter time to get more Dinar. Unfortunately, it also means that I will have to finish the decorating myself before buying a big house in the country and employing someone else to decorate it for me!!!!!

Second thoughts, Rob N, I think VERY early in 2007 would be better for me!!!!!!!!!!!

-- October 9, 2006 7:48 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Roger, i would like to add that Canada is split up into self-governing provinces. The provinces have a lot of authority in Canada. We all use the same currency: The Canadian dollar. This is not a problem.

I believe in the Golden Rule of Politics: Whoever has the Gold, makes the Rules. The Shiites have the gold, meaning oil, and the numbers, meaning they are 60% of the population, and occupy most of the land in Iraq. This means they can eventually impose their will on the country. The Sunni minority is in a very weak position, and they know it. They have no oil. They are few in number. The Americans are helping the government, led by Shiites. This means the Sunnis days of dominating are over. It looks like they are tough on tv, with all the insurgency and car bombings, but don't let that fool you. All those car bombs are a sign of weakness. They don't have the means to fight a real war anymore. If America and the Iraqi Army hangs in there, the Sunnis who are making trouble will lose, as surely as the sun will set tonight. That means the elected government of Iraq will very soon impose their will on the whole country. Then the Sunnis will beg to stay in the Iraq Federation, with it's wealthy future. There will be no breakup of Iraq, for if that happens, the Sunnis would lose the goose that laid the golden egg. All talk of breaking up Iraq is just talk, just trying to get the best deal for their group.

If there is a threat to divide Iraq into 3 separate regions, led by James Baker, great. I have tremendous respect for that man. His involvement gives me more confidence in my investment. He is one of the shrewdest leaders America has ever produced. Remember, he dealt with the Russians for years, and totally outwitted them. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows, the only way to negotiate with some people is with a gun to their head. The Sunnis are a very tough crowd. They have a reputation as "The Nazis of the Middle East." They need to be told in no uncertain terms that they either co-operate, or Iraq WILL break up, leaving them with a small fraction of Iraq. Then, they will be left with a tiny, poor, shit-hole of a country, with no money, no resources, no army, no water and no oil, and tough camel turds to 'ya... Eat sand, Omar.

The key, in dealing with tough customers, is to mean business. James Baker means business.

I have a feeling the next three months will be critical for Iraq, and our investments.

Maliki and his army have to shit or get off the pot. If this means a bloodbath of insurgents and illegal militia, so be it.

I am optimistic things will work out. I plan to buy more dinars. I already have 9 million.

-- October 9, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

From what I've heard, I'm not so sure this is a shot across the bow. It's not that Iraq is failing, it's a matter of we don't plan to spend another 20 years trying to clean this place up when their own leaders are refusing to do anything about the corruption and death squads. We can kill militias and insurgent groups. However, we can't do much when the Iraqi police force is allowing militiamen to drive through the checkpoints during raids and we're being forced to let police forces get away with bodies in their trunks. Now, keep in mind, the police are ruled by a Shiite who is friendly towards Al-Sadr and the militias. The Iraqi Army, on the other hand, is chaired by a Sunni and has a lot of Sunni, Kurd, and Shiite leadership. The Army is not golden but far better than the police force at this point in time. This gives us hope. That said, keep an eye because this may not just be posturing. We could very well follow through on our threats by pulling out and letting them kill each other. Especially when the Repubs could lose controle of Congress and the Dems could force this to happen anyway. I suspect the message delivered behind closed doors probably included something like, "clean up your house boys or we're gettign out while we can still control our political losses because you have 1 year either way."

Oh yes, and if you think our Iraqi enemies are not ollowing our elections just as closely as we dinaraholics are following theirs... look at the body count lately? No, unfortunately, Iran, Syria, and the rest of our enemies over here are very aware that more mayhem means more probability of "friendly" democrats getting office. So, unless Iraqi leadership steps up to this recent ultimatum, things could go pretty bad. Not good for those of us who have 10+ mill stashed away and hoping for better things.

-- October 10, 2006 2:24 AM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Carol,
I was born right here in the USA. I am of hispanic descent on my fathers side, but raised in Ohio with my mothers side. I don't speak a lick of spanish.
I'm a daily reader of this site, but I don't post much. I leave that up to those who do the research, and as a result, are much better informed than I. I do thank all of you who keep us informed, and offer diverse insites to this dinar adventure.
Welcome to the site Carol! I'm glad you have found us. I enjoy reading your posts also.
Like most who peruse this dinar discussion, I have dreams of a big payoff, but I am just a small time player with only 1.6 mil. I would like to have more, but with 5 kids and the daily stuggle of keeping them and the wife happy, along with the bill collectors, I'll be content with getting a little more at a time until TDH. Then fix up the house, get the kids through school, get a few new toys, and retire early. The latter may be stretching it unless the dinar demons cause enough delay to allow me to bank up some more in the mean time.
In the beginning I figured this investment would be 8 to 15 years before any real money would be made, but when everyone kept saying next week, next month, before the end of the year, first of next year, and now 2008, well I'm starting to think my original time table may not have been to conservative after all. I do think, inspite of the media, and politicle demises of this effort, tremendous progress has been, and continues to be made. I'm not so sure that the insurgency, and civil strife is as important to the Iraqi administration right now, as it is to the eyes of the world, because all the while they are setting the foundations for economic success, and these foundations in the end will prove to be the weapons that will win this effort. Modernized banking, communications, legislation,and infistructure is for doe, everything else is just for show. So if they had made security the number one priority, and been successfull at that without the other things in place, it would have been short lived, and in the end been a worse situation. I belive we will see a huge push in security, and most of the violence come to a startling cessation as they establish these foundations insomuch as then they will be able to offer immediate benifits from democracy, and freedom. When people are working, and getting paychecks every friday, and its enough to support your family, pay your rent, and get a new pair of sandles, I wonder how many then will line up where they hand out the suicide bombs.

-- October 10, 2006 3:06 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Valerio,

Thank you for your response. I speak fluent Spainish, Italian and German. I was hoping to have some fun!!

I get a kick out of the way to relate your responsibilites as a father and husband. You speak for alot of guys, who obviously take their role very serious.

Sounds like you have your priorities well established---congradts!!

I hope you are right in your foresights concerning Iraq.

For your sake, I hope you havetime to buy more dinar. For us " seniors" my hope is that it goes to $3.00 and we will both have our accomplishments!!!

The trend that I am seeing with this whole Middle east situation is that commonsense does not prevail, and so our logic becomes more of a crap-shoot, when trying to predict what comes next!!!

Frustrating, to say the least.

Hope you have a great day, and again thank you for responding.

Carole

-- October 10, 2006 8:02 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Not the big move I was hoping for, but it is still a move.

Details Notes
Number of banks 14 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1471 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ----- -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 53.010.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) -----
Total offers for buying (US $) 53.010.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ----- -----

Cash amounts sold to the bank and its customers were USD(27.010.000) at a rate of(1471+1+10=1482)IQD\USD .
The amount sold to make transfers abroad was USD (26.000.000) at a rate of (1471-2)+ one dinar as a bank fee and exempt the transferred amount from conversion fee.

-- October 10, 2006 8:17 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I'm like a lot of you.....I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the stocks in Iraq.

When I sent my list to Warka for stock purchases I bought stock in every bank that was available....just to cover my @$$.

I invested a lot more in Warka Bank because they're a good bank backed up by a very good organization....the Bunnia family.

I think my investments will do good in the future.

COM'ON DINAR!!!!

-- October 10, 2006 8:26 AM ∞

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Terri wrote:

http://www.aswataliraq.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=28449&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Voices of Iraq: Parliament-Investment (urgent)

Posted by: saleem on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 12:58 PM

Parliament-Investment (urgent)
Iraqi parliament unanimously passes investment law
By Kawther Abdul-Amir
Baghdad, Oct 10, (VOI) – The Iraqi parliament unanimously passed on Tuesday the investment law.
Parliament deputy speaker, chairing the session, said the investment law was passed unanimously as all 180 legislators present at the parliament 46th session voted for the investment law.
Although Iraqi law makers expressed some reservations during a two-week discussion of a draft investment law, the law was passed unanimously.

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So, guys...what's next...?!?!?

-- October 10, 2006 8:33 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Terri......

Good news about the FIL. I think a lot of good news will now start to flow out of Iraq.

Just picked up the following news regarding the ISX....looks like the news had a positive impact on the stock market.
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ISX index mounts

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Baghdad, 10 October 2006 (NINA)
The index of the Iraqi Stocks Exchange closed on Wednesday on 27,312 point climbing at the rate of 1,561 percent higher than Monday's session. On Wednesday's session, 31 companies traded 418 million shares, valued more than 891 million ID applying 365 contracts.

-- October 10, 2006 8:54 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Terri sez.....So, guys...what's next...?!?!?

When I get home this evening I'll get a good shot of my favorite medication and analyze the fuzz in my belly button to see if I can figure out when these guys will pass their hydrocarbon law.

I think this will be like the "boomer sooners" getting ready to make a run for the free land in Oklahoma.

All the investors and oil companies are lined up at the border waiting to enter Iraq and get the "dealin done".

-- October 10, 2006 11:22 AM ∞

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Terry853 wrote:

Hello people.. This is an excellent forum. Believe this is my first post on this forum. To give you a little background-I am Canadian and have worked in the patch(oil and gas production)for 13 years now as a field hand. Drill rigs,service rigs, Testers,Plant turnarounds etc. I specialize in sour gas wells,not much in the way of oil wells as I work in northern BC and it is pretty much all NG and condensate wells up here. I have been following the news-from the whole planet-as I have a sat radio in my truck for months, I hit every forum on the net I know of whenever I can. The wells here-a lot of them anyways-are dogs compared to wells in the middle east. Their wells truly roar!! I have had long conversations with many very experianced men that have worked the middle east. Some months ago I did a lot of research and discovered that five LNG (liqufied natural gas) ports are to be built in North America. Three in the States and two in Canada. One on the east coast, not sure where, the other in Prince Rupert, which it seems will be one of the biggest ports in NA in 20 years. Please feel free all to confirm or deny this info.All the news outfits, even CBC and BBC report only the bad news. Laws are being passed left right and sideways finally. I have only been on the Dinar ride for four or five months. When I purchased the first mill I figured two to five years. Then I started finding the dinar forums. What a ride!!! Every day I see how the big companies are willing to spend hundreds of thousands to keep wells flowing. Where I work the wells are fairly expensive. In Iraq you punch a shallow hole and the well flows for years. They can't change their money as money is only worth what the people of the world think it is. My research tells me that many trillions of dinar reside in the vaults of many countries. Now this is all JMO based on a lot of years actuall experiance. As many have said A once in a lifetime oportunity!!

-- October 10, 2006 12:45 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Terry853,

Tell us about your research on the oil and also what you have found on countries who own the dinar and how much. Include your sources as support for your data. We would love to hear about what you have found.

Hi All-

Laura

-- October 10, 2006 3:21 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Provided our government can federalize Iraq and bring some security to the country will determine whether our investment in the dinar will come to fruition. As it stands now, our military and Iraqi police seem impotent in achieving this important goal.

Regardless, of our hopes and dreams of a quick RV. An opportunity still exists for Iraq. Time is running out though. In my mind, 2008 seems to be the line of demarcation for either a successful or unsucessful Iraq.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 10, 2006 5:05 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

The Dinar ride is certainly a ride of a lifetime.

Hopes and dreams, sometimes scuttled by bad news, and an endless peg.

We try to get as much info as possible, try to puzzle something together, that just make sense, and when it all makes sense,.... nothing.

Prognosticators (Hey I'm also guilty) have come and gone, about fivehundred times, so far, the rumor is out" I know a friend in the Green Zone, he says.....".

So I have come to the conclusion that this will happen when it will happen, not when an outsider think it is logic for it to happen.

WILL it happen, there is no way around it, and I think that's not an issue with anyone, it's a WHEN it will happen thing.

What we have is a Bank director in the CBI that is an expert in loan reconstruction, and his own statement that no reconstruction can take place in Iraq, before the heavy Iraq loanburden is taken care of, tells me that this, and nothing else is what is worked upon right now.

Two to three months, and according to the plan, the debt forgivenss plan would be a worked out , done deal.

The investment law approved.....jihaaa....

That means that at least foreign investments can now take place in Iraq.

IMF and the CBI seem to hold each others hands very tightly, and as the Iraqi finances are sorted out, the date when the CBI can be a full member in the IMF will come closer.

The vast majority of the billions in loans given to Saddam (via IMF) was strangely enough from the neighbouring countries, like Kuwait, Dubai, Saud Arabia and so on. (The very countries the Saddam regime threatened), and they are now unwilling to let the debt be forgotten.

One loan in argument was just a bank transfer from Kuwait to Baghdad, no document from either side is found, and the only papertrail is a paperslip produced in Kuwait that the money was transferred. CBI was looted and completely destroyed inside, and no papertrail other than what the Kuwaitis are producing exists. No contract, no signatures, just a bank transfer of a couple of Billions of Dollars, thats all.

Kind of makes you wonder who is owing who?

Old time handshake agreements can bee good for Millions of Dollars, when you deal with known and honorable men, knowing each other, and fully trust each other. However, in the banking business, things dont work that way, and apparently someone in Iraq called at one time or the other, to Kuwait, and said, "Hey, just send the money, we'll fax the contract tomorrow", and a sucker in Kuwait went it.

If all this happened at all, the Kuwaitis might just see an opportunity to milk the Iraqis here.

Things of this sort needs to be sorted out, most of the loans was a bona fide, contracts however, and the debt reduction is (in the eye of Mr Shibib, the CBI boss) a must, before anything else.

For the Dinar this means, that they will basically don't do anything to it until CBI is in good shape.

So when will the CBI be in good shape, as far as I can read into it, Iraq will still have some debts, but the issue here is to get rid of most of them. From the original debt burden of ( have seen a couple of figures here) 120 Bil. Dollars, it will be worked down to about 20 Bil.,was the latest forecast.

20 Bill. Dollars, seem to be in the range where Iraq can actually manage it's debt burden.

So after that point, the Iraqis can, (according to Mr Shibib,) invest themselves.

The time scheduled for the completion of the debt forgiveness program is two three months, from now, that will pretty much be at the time when foreign investments will come in doing their oil deal. The law just passed, and I think we can expect to see some good movement on that side, pretty fast.

Once the Iraqis have taken care of their heavy debt, they themself can now invest in Iraq, this will be then Iraqis own infrastructure programs, Power, water, etc, and it would not come as a too big of a suprise to se some "Hoover Dam" type projects.

Will this mean that the Dinar will go up? Well, as long as the CBI is not a full member of IMF, the currency can't really count as being too good on the market. They can revalue it but still must peg it one or more times, to offset for the incoming private oilinvestors. Whatever they do with the currency , it will still have to be pegged in it's current system, until CBI is full member of IMF.

The completion of the loan reduction program is said to take a couple of more months from now, but even if they complete it successfully, that doesnt mean an overnight release of the Dinar.All the IMF criterias have to be fullfilled by CBI to be a member of the IMF. Restructioning of the complete bank system to fully integrate with international banking routines, is a major one. However, on that end, they seem to do great progress.

When in time? Well, if the debt reduction program is done in a few months, the private investors are coming in, about now also, I guess there will be some weeks of negotiation over the contracts, but I dont think this will be a very long procedure. However, the "Big Oil" will not skip on this.

When "Big Oil" is coming in, probably there will be a couple of main oil areas that will be covered, one, the rebuilt and repair of the existing production facility, that is in desperate need of new and modern equipment. The second, (and probably most lucrative in the long run), the drilling and prospecting, exploring completely new fields.

So, from the time the contracts are signed, and until some serious movement are taking place, I say check back on that around Chirstmas time, and you should see quite a bit of trucks and equipment, moving around, lot of work lights being lit in the desert, and a bit noisy out there.

So we have Christmans, or New Years, thereabouts, when Iraq should per plan be in a condition of having the bigger debts taken care of, and the foregin oil investors being in full swing.

When IMF is satisfied that the CBI is now a financial viable bank, now, they can apply. How long time that takes, I dont know. However all these pieces have to come together, and at the end, the members of IMF will vote them in.

Ouktamogu, with a flyswat made of a horse tail, will swat himself, and put his vote in the box.

Maybe another year, maybe in the beginning of -07, perhaps summer, dont know. The bummer is, that it will happen when it will happen.

It will however give the opportunity to get a couple of more Dinars in the meanwhile, so go get 'em.

Remeber that WHEN it happens, this will not be a mark in time, when the Dinars have "done it's thing" , this will only be the time when the actuall Dinar race begins.

THAT will be the game, where you sit and watch , consider holding or selling, se it go up, and down , hold it for a bit more, see it go up again, and so on. You might want to cash in when it is in anohter range, but it might be plateuing in still another range. That's the REAL Dinar game.

Right now we're just sitting with our race cars in the pit, waiting for the rain to stop and the officials can start the race.

-- October 10, 2006 5:25 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Okie,
The Investment lawand the Hydrocarbon Law is so closely related that I THINK the voting on the Hydroc. law will be pretty expedited.

In leu of recent events, long negotiations and complete dissagreement on almost any and all issue brought up to the Iraqi Goverment, I can't fail to notice that the Investment Law, was passed with complete majority, not one NO, or Abstain Vote.

THAT tells me, that they're voting with a gun to their heads now. It's just as possible to get complete agreement amongst those people as it is possible to play piano with my rear cheeks.

I do believe that, whatever we told them about getting their act together had effect. I'm pretty sure that things that will not come out in the media was told to them. Wonder what they were told.....??

-- October 10, 2006 5:46 PM ∞

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Steve wrote:

Carol wrote:

"As bad as it is out of the 160 other countries left to pick from, which one would you pick?"

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Switzerland. I'm headed there just as soon as this thing hits.........

-- October 10, 2006 6:08 PM ∞

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Steve wrote:

Roger wrote:

"I do believe that, whatever we told them about getting their act together had effect. I'm pretty sure that things that will not come out in the media was told to them. Wonder what they were told.....??"

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20 million Dinar says.............

-- October 10, 2006 6:13 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Was machen Sie my kindle Knodl? Was sagen Sie, Kennen Sie Nicht Knodl??? Aber da mussen Sie lehren, my junge Freuline.

Anynomous,

Agree, it's a matter of WHEN, not if. Just hang in there, and, hey, get'em while you can.

C1Jim,

It will move a bit up and down but the upper and lower limit is set, so there's where it will be. The Dinar is not pegged in it's real sense, then it would not move at all like a truly pegged currency, but rather it is held artificially in a range with the help of an auction. When it's moved too far out of range, up or down, they either sell more or less on the auction. Newvertheless, the range is set, and you wont see anything more than those small points up or down. In reality for us, it doesnt mean anything.

Rob N and Turtle,

Comon, a little bit more cheerful prognosis please. Sometimes you have such a shade of pessimism over you, that I believe you can talk your self into, that you have runned out of gas, before the gastank went dry. I can see you on the freeway, walking with a red plastic can, your car still idling, to keep the A/C going. Cursing your bad luck.

There are so many exciting things happening in Iraq right now, things that are coming together, and a splendid future for that country, that I really dont feel I even want to spend my time selling you on that idea.

There is no crossroads for Iraq, no demarcation point, there is no....if bla doesnt happen before bla, everything goes to hell.

Cheer up my friends, Okie can suggest his brand of medication, Carole can cheer you up with wild tales of angoras, and Carl can do wonders when he straighten up people.

Iraq will stay where it is, the oil will come up, and the Dinar will go up.

If you are worried about the fatalities, and a possible civil war, well, we had a civil war right here in the US. THAT was big scale slaughter, and we survived.

It's so weird to read all the detailed huge influx of aid, investments, and what an enormous big movement the whole reconstruction of Iraq is, the forces involved, the enormous ammount of energy, resources and planning that goes in to it, reading about the implementation of the plans step by step, the progress , the hardship to get there, the goverment action and inaction, how that is handled, how this whole gigantic ship called Iraq is moving along picking up steam.

And then......(said with a low apathic voice) -"it looks like this thing is going to hell....look...dead people..."

I dont know if we're living in the same world, or are talking about the same Iraq.

May I suggest to cut out MSM a little bit, we already know what they want us to say, and start getting online following projects, investments, timeschedules, progress reports, and a little bit more of that sort.

Sure, dont be blind of Militias, carbombs, and death squads, but in the whole picture, even how gruesom a bombschene may look , it still doesnt matter for the course of Iraq. The course is set, and the ship have already picked up speed to the point that it will mess up your hairdo, if you walk out on the bridge.

-- October 10, 2006 6:47 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Steve,

You've got to brush up on your Switzerduts,(Schweitzerdeutch) if you're going there. I have a pretty nice liking for Bern. Theyre super conservative in Switzerland, most unlike the rest of Europe.

If you want a Switz friend to join your golf club, you can never get him to join immediately, it is a process of about half a year, with nudges, and invitations, then he might reluctantly come and check it out.

They're so superconservative you will be chocked, you thought Americans are conservative, but you've seen nothing yet.

I love their banklaws, it's the most secrative bank system in the world, you dont even need a name to have an account, you just need to remember a number, thats all.(Dont use the combination one, two, three, four, five etc..., thats what an idiot uses on his luggage combination)

Check out Faznach, lot of fun, and you have to eat their Rosl. (O with two dots over)

Think we have liberal gun laws in the US, ?? Every man have to have , by law, his military gear at home, including his fully auto assault rifle, including ammo, ready for action. If you have property, and you happen to be with, for example, the anti aircraft defense forces,you can be asked to roll home an anti aircraft artilley piece, for storage and care.

-"Kids climb down from the 40mm Bofors right now, and put the ammo back where it belong."

Immigration into Switzerland is today somewhat harder than in the past, but if your Dinars hit, you will have the money, use a lawyer. I have a friend that lived close to fifteen years in Switzerland, and he was not a Swiss so it can be done.(He had the money though).

It's a somewhat expensive place to live in, but the quality of life is very high, including the stuff they have.

-- October 10, 2006 7:07 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

Regardless of the MSM reports the facts are George W. Bush and the republicans are running out of time to change the course of Iraq. The government in power now is powerless (axiom?).

The Iraq and the RV you preach may be decades away. I think I am pretty optimistic by citing 2008 as a likely date for an RV. Iraq is a war torn nation with an anemic government.

True, the U.S. continues to pour billions of dollars into the country. At some point though reconstruction money ends. Without our aid, the GoI is more proned more instability.

Roger, I am happy at any good news. Iraq must federalize to have an opportunity at a future. Middle Eastern people think differntly than those of us in the west. Loyality resides in the tribe, clan, or spiritual leader. Money, profit, and oil does not seem to motivate them the same way as it does a capitalist. The middle east is not really sure what capitalism is.

Our military and government have taken on a huge endevor to teach the economics 101. Thus far, I have 6 million dinars and I want to purchase more. I think a dose of realisme is in order. While the future may seem bright, the present stinks.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 10, 2006 10:40 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

What do you mean"wild tales of Angoras"???????

And what vitamins(?) are you taking? Who wound you up??SO much mental energy. Maybe ready for a lithium dose adjustment!!! Just kidding.

But I just read your post and I feel like I just got off a roller coaster!!

Very entertaining,exasperating, encouraging, discouraging, inflating, deflating,logical, illogical, compassionate,
crude, not white , not black, intellectual ,dumb,
straight, crooked, wide narrow.......

In two words: ambiguous, and ambivalent. At any rate, I think I thank you for your exhortations to this group.

It will give us all the
" whatever" to go another mile or two on this adventure ( even if is going around in a circle) lol!!

Concerning the Swiss....don't mix conservatism with exclusivism. The blonde hair and blue eyes are a big clue....

By the way if you meant by my tales if angoras, that I bring warm and fuzzies to these discussions, it is my pleasure.

But I must tell you my husband calls me the velvet hammer!!!lol

Well, I must go now, I have to skin my cat so I can make you a winter scarf!!!! (:

All in fun!!

-- October 10, 2006 10:40 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

Oh by the way:
Mit Gelduld und zeit kommt man weit...
Dau men drucken (2 dots over the "U.)

Agree???

-- October 10, 2006 11:01 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All-

You all will have to take me under your wings when it comes to the foreign speakings--as I do not speak anything but english. And me thinks english maybe a problem!

I have been wondering where I read it-- but I remember reading the the president of CBI (that bank guy you have been writing about Roger) made a comment to his brother that he was not thinking about a revalue--but to drop 3 zero's from the currency.

I thought this an interesting comment (to see where this guy's head is). A three zero drop like Turkey was the phrase as I recall the bank guy saying to his brother.

So--if I understand the implication, a 10 billion dinar investment ($7500.00 USD) investment would not be a potential 1 billion USD but $100,000.00 profit. Is this what would happen even if the dinar is pegged to a penny.

Maybe, someone can explain the math portion to us a little better than I.

Laura

-- October 10, 2006 11:50 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Carole-

Welcome aboard! On your question, "Does anyone play poker?" I do but not for real money. I play on AOL'S games. It costs about $6.00 a month to use their tables. It is fun.

Laura

-- October 10, 2006 11:57 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi Laura,

Thanks for the welcome. I meant to interpret the German, but got a phone call and posted without doing so.

Basically, I said ,"all things come to those who wait , keep your fingers crossed.

I learn alot from playing poker online. Which site to you go to? I don't pay anything, but have the option of using real money. I know alot of people do, but I don't like to give bank or credit card information on line. Plus I see a real potential for cheating and scheming.

If you like it and are good there are several card rroms that have very low stakes, like a $1.00/$2.00 Texas Holdem.

I can play for hours with $40.00.

On the otherhand , I can play for 30 minutes and lose $300.00.

My dilema is that I like a game called Omaha. I am not very good at it, cause most of the poeple that play are very experienced at that game and do alot of "bluffing". I am bettter at Holdem, but I get so bored because I like alot of action, and you have to be real patient and wait for ideal hands, and I don't.

I always think I can do "something " with almost any hand!!haha

Hope you are feeling better.

Carole

-- October 11, 2006 8:57 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

This is part of an interview that Secretary Rice had with Fox news yesterday.

I'll bet her real discussion with the Iraqis went like this:

"Listen up putty cats...either get with the program, pass laws and move forward or your next move will be out the door...get the picture? By the way...if I hear any more bad news about fat boy Sadr...I'll make sure a stinger missile is targeted right on his fat @$$."

========================================================================================

HUME: Let's turn to Iraq for a moment. You were there last week, you delivered a message that appeared to be a stern warning. Similar warnings were heard from Senators Warner and Levin. What did you tell them and how was it received?

RICE: Well, I told the Iraqi government that it was the many members with whom I met, that it was time to put aside their political differences, it was time to get this national compact in place, that Prime Minister al-Maliki has talked about. That means a hydro-carbon law, that means a deal on de-Baathification. That means a deal to dismantle militia. The Iraqi people are expecting that to happen and they're impatient about it. It's time for the Iraqis to stop killing Iraqis. That that's something that's very hard for Americans to understand.

-- October 11, 2006 9:30 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sorry...that last post was mine....

-- October 11, 2006 9:31 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole....

Each time I see you post something it reminds me that I'm in total awe of you for raising five daughters without ending up in a corner somewhere with drool running out both sides of your mouth.

I raised one daughter and two sons...my daughter put several grey hairs on my head before I got her thru University and out into the world. The boys were a little bit easier to raise.

All I can say is "win a million bucks playing poker...you deserve it!"

-- October 11, 2006 1:46 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Iraq (space) the final frontier and these are the voages of the war President George W. Bush.

His continuing mission to destroy insurgents and boldly go where no democrat has gone before.

I guess I have been watching to much Star Trek.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 11, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

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Ryan wrote:

I understand that the Middle-Eastern culture is different from that of a Westernized culture. But I believe these same doubts about promoting a capitalistic culture were a concern in Japan in the later 1940's. I don't know were the Dinar is going. I can see it come to fruitition, I can see it staying the same, and I can see it being devalued to nil. It is a matter of capitalism and democracy working within the confines of Islam. Judism and Christianity had NOOOO problem with money, and it worked. However...America is, and has always been very secular. Which makes me wonder how secular Iraq is? America has always been characterized by being very Christian, but that is a lie. (Believe me, I have a B.A. in History and PoliSci and a minor in religious studies)So I wonder how much of the extremism is promoted as being true of Iraqi people.
While in the military, I got mixed messages about the violence. Some say it is as bad as it is portrayed, but my more down-to-earth friends that have been there tell a different story.

So as far as the situation is in Iraq, I correlate it to the coverage during Katrina. The horrible sells to the people, but reality can be but a fraction of the true. People are dying, but its war and they are carrying guns. So What, its the norm, it happens. My childhood best friend is a green beret and he knows more people killed by friendly fire than by insurgents.

Dinar is in question. Don't lie to yourself that it is a sure thing. If it was, everyone would have some. Use Logic. I bought some, but I treat it like any other of my investments. The return is outstanding and the risk is unheard of. So you are given, by the nature of any market, a discount for investing is something so risky. The Discount to the Return, I'll admit, is enough for me to buy some here and there.

99.9% of the time - if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

I'm hoping on that .1%. But it is hope.
You don't know the future.

-- October 11, 2006 4:03 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: Sorry brother, I wish I could tell you that I've seen more than an hour of MSM in the last 2 weeks but I haven't. I went into work this morning at 10am and got off at 2am the next morning. Everything I said in my post and a lot that I didn't has come straight from the battlefield. By no means are things going to hell in a handbasket, but I can tell you that things are not going very well either. The informaiton I have comes from the men training the Iraqi police and Army. It's all first hand and very real. The police warning their Mahdi friends we're coming, police caught with bodies in their trunk & released, and Mahdi being allowed to pass through check points during sweeps. Yep, all that is daily over here right now. We're running missions almost every day. Now that we're in Ramadan, mortars are almost daily too. They like firecrackers I guess. When I first got here I was discussing with my friends how the mortars always fly right after the call to prayer. It occured to me recently how efficient a religion Islam is. Praying and launching mortars uses the same motion so they can do both at one time. Being raised Chrestian I suddenly felt very inept as the only thing I could think of that I could do standing with my head bowed is urinate. Anyway, being sidetracked again. Point is, things truly are looking bad right now and for me MSM means jack. But it does bother me that men that I respect are now saying things have to change or we're wasting our time. I was told this recent ultimatum was coming. Just be aware, it's no secret that clean up or we're cutting funds and leaving was the short of the convo. I keep hoping the Iraqis will wake up and move forward. I keep hoping that 1st Cav will roll in here and make an example by subduing Sadr City and thinning the Mahdi herd. This is the only way the good police will be able to point out the bad without fear for their lives. I keep wishing they would reval this currency so I can go home. But... Be aware that this recent clean up your act message from the Army to Maliki was no joke. I wasn't there, but if it was anything like what I was told was going to be said... I can't see the US military just pulling out but it COULD happen and I would not be shocked.

-- October 11, 2006 7:54 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura P,

Naa, you have a couple of players confused.

1. The OLD finance minister.
2. The NEW Finance minister.
3. A Guru called "Mr Q" , that is the brother if a sister that his inlaws are related to the mother of the brother of the other sisters mister.
4. The President of CBI. Been there all the time.

The old (1.) finace minister went out on a open mouth jacketyjack campaign about a half year ago, wanting to do the "zero loop", that was reported in numerous articles all over the middle east, and also reported by our famous prognosticator Mr Q (3.).

Mr Q (3.) is the guy related to anything with two and four legs.

The OLD finance minister (1.) was sacked because he was too dumb, and replaced with a not so dumb new finance minister (2.), that have been smart enough to not mouth off, and up to today been a pretty quiet individual.

The president of CBI (4.) didnt like the old (1.) finance minister and didnt like his idea of "zero loop", and claimed that the proposal sucked and so did the financeminister, and after a quick IQ test, the finance minister was sacked, accused of corruption, offensive facial appearance and bad personal hygiene. I have not heard of any arrest though.

Rob N,

There was a press conferance on the White House lawn today, and I must say President Bush did actually really well.

Carole,

I get that warm and fuzzy angora feeling when talking with you. Funny, I could say that I per definition is gambling now, doing the Dinar game, but have never been even close to attracted by the casino table. Been passing by in Nevada, and have had a roll or two with nickels and dimes, and have as fun as if I would feed a Quarter or Dollar machine.

Have been watching on TV the big poker tournaments, but mostly can't stand it more than a couple of minutes. Nothing put you to sleep quicker than a televised Golf or Poker tournament, people standing beside whispering, like it is a highly important thing that happens, with a lot of tension and action.

It sucks.

I get more entertainment going to the mensroom, whipping it out, having a leak, and trying to hit flies at the urinoar.

Ryan,

I see it the way you see it, with the difference perhaps that I give the Dinar a bit better odds, than 0.01 to 99.99. The oil is in the ground, Iraq will not by some mysterious techtonic reason suddenly float over to the southpole and get shuffled under that continent and be gone forever.

If no revolutionary way of converting energy into motion is presented within the forseable future, we will need oil.

If you sell oil you will get Dollars.

If you get rid of your debt, you will be in financial good shape.

If you do both you will be in even better shape.

If you don't invest, but instead let companies in, let them invest and instead get a cut of the produciton, you're into the fast track of oil revenue, plus the initial investment is not from your state budget.

Naaa, Ryan, I give this a much better chance than 0.01 to 99.99. Ryan, just go and get a couple of more Dinars while you can. Remeber Ryan, the reason everybody is not investing is because of the bad news. So in a sense, the bad news is what is good for us, that is the exact reason the Dinars will be for still some time be in a very very affordable range. This window of opportunity is closing though, and once the Dinar stats to move, this window will be closed forever.

Getem while you can.

-- October 11, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

I want you to know I really do hope you are right. Especially since you are sitting on so many Dinar. Are they all 25K notes? Some of your arguments made for the future of Iraq are quite valid, but I certainly see where Turtle's point of view is understandable. I naturally gravitate to some pessimism.

I do not regret investing one U.S. penny in Dinars regardless of the outcome. Yet, the continual bad news reported from Iraq tends to take its toll. I think the Republicans will experience some discomfort in upcoming mid-term elections as the result of the continual negativity coming from Iraq.

Regardless of bad news or good news coming from the region there are things that Iraq must be willing to do to bring in its prosperus future. You know the diatribe I subscribe too. I just wish the GoI would get down to business and put the country first.

To put the country first the GoI must do the following:

1. Crush the insurgency.
2. Provide basic services like water and electricity.
3. Stop missapropriating U.S. reconstruction dollars.
4. Continue to reduce the country's debt. The final stage set to be paid by 2008.
5. Crush any disloyality found in the Iraqi police or Iraqi Army.
6. Increase oil production to substantial levels.

Until these things are done the RV we all are looking for and the eventual open trading of the Dinar on the forex market is a long way off. I will say Roger, since American banks are slowly beginning to offer the Dinar for purchase I would consider that very good news.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 11, 2006 8:43 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From what I have read on the internet, the Bremer NID is extremely hard to counterfiet. However, I am sure it can be done.

Has anyone read of any reports where counterfeit dinars have been found? What security features on the New Iraqi Dinar, especially the 25000K note is easily compromised?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 11, 2006 8:50 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Watched President Bush today talking exactly about the issues you are relating to. There will be no cut and run. Things may have to adapt, things may change, plans that dont work have to be redone, things that will work will have to be implemented.

I can tell you that if you are in the midst of things over there, ( well first and for all, cudos to you, you are in our hearts, be carefull, and hit them hard if you need), and we are not.

This will give a unique perspective from our point of view to be outside looking in.

I assume as you are writing this, that you have access to a computer, but it might be restricted either in time or by security reason, or just by the fact that someone else are sitting in line waiting to get online sending his greetings home( if you dont mind, please fill us in on that particular issue), or you just dont have the time becuse of your daily duties to sit hour after hour doing research on the net.

From my (outsdide looking in) view, there is a lot of blood, yes, you are there and can account for it as well. However, the MSM will only go where the blood and body parts are, the same place as you are, and I can see where it might be a tendency to agree with the hoplessness in the situation.

You see it, they report it, and you can confirm the report, therefore the MSM is not lying.

It's so much more to it, but MSM is not going there.

The whole Iraq experience, is a gigantic moving entity, where statesmen, national and international is involved. Debt reduction, ( loan forgiveness program, due to be completed in about two months) , imagine that, a solvent nation in a coupole of months. Investment programs , small big, investment laws passed, oilproduction rebuilt after hydrocarbon laws passed. Just imagine when Iraq can start to be serious about it's own state goverment investments, once it's solvent.

I can see why it would be such a frustrating proposal to wait and wait and wait until things get done, well they are not too effective in the first place to get things done in Iraq, but theyre getting there, but also, investment, and reconstruction is not an overnight thing.

Contracts legality and a lot of logistic problems have to be solved, and even if it is a fustraiting wait, the insurgents dont set timeschedules. I can fully accept the viewpoint of "why are nothing done" when mortars are coming in.

Military this might have another solution, but for Iraqis rebuilt, the insurgents activities will at best delay, but not stop the progress.

An oilsurveyer in an oilfield in the south, can and will have no pressure from any insurgency group to work faster or slower or differently because the insurgency group is shooting mortars in Baghdad.

Norther Iraq is experiencing a building boom, I keep reading daily about all this small and large projects, gasrefinery here, powerplant there, schools over there, rebuilding of a harbor, over and over. It's a big thing going on , and it's a big thing going on right now.

I'm really sorry to say, but THAT is not MSM's mainfeed. They want the blood, and you're there, and you can confirm the MSM's reports.

The real happenings that will benefit Iraq, and that is happening with a gigantic inertia, sorry to say, but you have to puzzle that picture together yourself, from different sites, the MSM' dont want you to consider that being the REAL picure.

Turtle, I'm not in any way or form saying that what you are seing and experiencing is not real, oh man, it's as real as it gets, the point is, there is more to the picture than explosions, and insurgency. Even though that those are in fact happening, the rest of the Iraqi project is steaming along.

I fully agree, it's time to take some radical measures against Sad'rs militia, get Sad'r himself also, and hang him in a lightpole, and let him hang a month.

Malaki have had six months to try to fix it, and he's ben far far too soft with these thugs. Either the Iraqis themselves fix it, or we will fix it, it doesnt matter, time to clean the house from those AK wielding thugs.

Go get em, and oh also Turtle, if you can get a couple of more Dinars, go get them as well.

-- October 11, 2006 9:09 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N,

You have to compromise all the security features in order to pull off a counterfeit Dinar bill. Get the right paper, with the right consistency, and PH value, that will chemically react in the same way to detection efforts. The magnetic tape, inserted in the middle of the paper, have to be applied just the same, water stamp, that can be seen only when held up to a background light have to be there, also ultraviolet detection prints, have to be printed in the same location, all bills have to have their own original number, and you can not print one bill with the same number over and over again. The holographic emblem, printed have to be not only holographic, but also shift the color in the right angle to the correct shade of color. Extreem small prints, microprints, will have to be applied also, a very hard process. All the colors have to have the exact shade, and then you have to know a number of secret safety features that takes inside knowledge. Not all is common knowledge.

THEN after messing around and getting a counterfeight 10.000 Dinar bill, you can exchange it for six bucks.

It's very hard to counterfeight, I'm sure it's been tried, but a modern bill, like the LaRue printed bill, is so hard that it would be comparably easy to detect if it's a smaller kitchen table operation, A photo scanner doesnt cut it no more...oh well perhaps it will get around a couple of circles in the neighbourhood grocerystore and so on, but once in the bank, it's over.

In the banks, our Dollar is counted, in a count, and verification machine, you just stack them nicely, in the same direction, and FRRRR, you have a bunch of Dollars neatly packed, and scanned.

-- October 11, 2006 9:28 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N (again),

Well you inherent mental dungeon, I cant do anything about that one, in fact it might be a healthy human trait -"Dont go into that cave Roger !".

Guess it's just a matter of prediction then, if it is later we can call it pessimistic, if it is earlier it's optimistic. Works for me. Either way, the RV or the FOREX , doesnt matter, as well as what date it will happen, because at the time that happens, that is the very beginning of the real Dinar game.

Sell, or hold and sell later.

Who knows what value the Dinar have in 15 years from now, the only objection I have is that I want to live my life now, and reap some benefit before I need a walker.

-- October 11, 2006 9:46 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Carole,

In answer to your question, I used AOL and they have boxes at opening of their news that shows games. I select this and go to the casino.

Once there, I sign onto the low stakes room (no money needed as we do not pay with real money) for the no limit texas holdem.

As far as the other game you are mentioning, I have never played it.

I do play cantasta and they have that game on AOL too.

Hope all is going well.

Laura

-- October 11, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Roger,
I agree with you. Even though the violence continues daily, and to the minds eye of those who can't see past the last car bomb, the situation looks gloom. However I say again that tremendous progress is being accomplished where it needs to be right now. I dissagree with you on crushing the insurgency out as the number one priority (no need to worry about the locust before the sprouts appear). This will come as the real issues get in order, and as they do little by little you will see the security issues gain momentum, as we are beginning to see now. It would do little to end the violence now without being able to put people to work. How could they have any conidence in this new system of government if they are still hungry and in need of basic necessities after the violence ends. Would there not be a resurgence in violence of greater purportions? When the seeds of democracy and freedom begin to shoot forth and show buds, then they will know that the fruit is near. Then they may want to taste the fruit. We have tilled the ground (removed Saddam), and planted seed (freely elected representative government), we are now fertilizing (infastructure, education, banking, investment laws), and when the buds begin to appear(jobs and paychecks for Iraqis) we will start spraying the pesticide (crush the insurgency and violence). Now we can all eat the fruit (cash in our dinars).

-- October 12, 2006 1:41 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Valerio,

Wow, that was very elegant. I like that one.

-- October 12, 2006 3:33 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: I'm a civilian that does IT work over here. My job allows me ot work very closely with the guys that run the missions. Now, it does happen that I am in one of the worst areas around Baghdad. However, my current negativity comes not from the body counts but from some of the other indicators that I can't go in to. Things like black routes, increase in successful ambushes on certain convoys, etc. Like I say, there are a lot of things we just can't say. Now, my fear of cut and run... Well... Mr. Maliki has the support of key people in the US and I don't see us trying to remove him. He's been givin a clean bill of health so to speak - from what I have been told. Al Sadr on the other hand is a real pain and absorbing his people into the police force has turned it into a heavily mafia like entity where even the leaders are affraid to buck against the Mahdi thugs. I expect to see more attacks on the Mahdi by US Army combined with Iraqi Army. If that happens we may be able to get control. Until you see that, I really don't think we will be able to get things on the secure track. All the speechs mean nothing if we don't break the Mahdi.

Your other question, I do only have limited time because of my workload. I'm working 90-100 hours a week right now. However, I went in with a group of my peers and we have satellite internet courtesy of Hughes Direcway for a mere $1055 a month for highly shared 2048 down by 512 upload. Yeah... It get's pretty slow often.

Oh yes, just for the record... Carl is the pessimist who denies he's a pessimist. That's HIS role here and I'm staying off his tracks. I'm the guy on the fence who sees the good and bad here but feels really nervous about the bad right now.

-- October 12, 2006 3:51 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Good news in the press?
Enjoy it when you see it - But don't expect it!!!
****************************
Iraqi Tribes Turn on al Qaeda
September 22, 2006: Coalition forces in Iraq have suddenly received the manpower equivalent of three light infantry divisions. They did not suffer any repercussions in domestic politics as a result, and now have a huge edge over al-Qaeda in al-Anbar province. How did this happen? Tribal leaders in the largely Sunni province on the Syrian border got together and signed an agreement to raise a tribal force of 30,000 fighters to take on foreign fighters and terrorists.

These leaders have thrown in with the central government in Baghdad. This is a decisive blow to al Qaeda, which has been desperately trying to fight off an Iraqi government that is getting stronger by the week. Not only are the 30,000 fighters going to provide more manpower, but these tribal fighters know the province much better than American troops – or the foreign fighters fighting for al Qaeda. Also, this represents just over 80 percent of the tribes in al-Anbar province now backing the government.

The biggest gain for the coalition is that they will now have forces on their side that know the terrain in al Anbar province. This is a very big deal in a campaign against the terrorists. When a force knows the terrain, it can make life miserable for its enemies. Just ask any Army unit that has gone through the National Training Center at Fort Irwin. The OPFOR (Opposing Force) has fought there for so long that they know all the good ambush sites. Units coming there for a training session don't have that knowledge – and they pay the price in the exercises held there.

This is just one sign that the tide is turning in favor of the coalition in Iraq. Many of the Sunni leaders have decided that the Shia-dominated Iraqi government is not going away any time soon, nor is the democratic process. As such, the tribal leaders have now decided that it is better to be on their good side rather than to be seen as uncooperative. Constant Arab casualties in al Qaeda attacks – and al Qaeda's desire for a caliphate – have not helped matters any, either.

On the other hand, by signing up with the government, these tribal leaders will hasten the construction of government services, and gain something else just as valuable – the government's gratitude. In essence, the tribal leaders have slowly been won over by a combination of coalition perseverance and al Qaeda strategic ineptness.

This agreement, if it holds, is a win for the United States, which is looking for measurable progress. It is a win for the Shia-dominated Iraqi government, which will now have an easier time in that province. It is a win for the tribal leaders, who will get a few markers they can call in down the road from the government for their assistance. For al Qaeda, now facing the equivalent of three additional light infantry divisions composed of people who will have knowledge of al Anbar province, it is a huge loss. The major downside is that many of the tribesmen still support al Qaeda, and will defy their tribal leaders by continuing to work with the terrorists, or by not being very enthusiastic in fighting the terrorists. – Harold C. Hutchison (haroldc.hutchison@gmail.com

-- October 12, 2006 7:28 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Turtle:
Labels tend to paint situations and people in certain colors. Usually, you find most are a blend of many colors...
I can say that Yes I am: Pessimist sometimes....Optimist sometimes.....Pragmatic...all the time...

I gladly stand on my past post....I have always said in the beginning we are looking at a 5-15 year investment period before any major valuation occurs...why? You have to wait on human nature to take its course...History is a good barometer of how nations evolve....its great to get excited and want to believe a RV will occur tomorrow, the end of the month, etc....and it may well do so...but when you look at the over all picture...you have to ask yourself why would it RV at this given time?
I have come to realize that the middle eastern way of thinking is foreign to Western Mind....That is why our Intell sometimes tends to suck...thus we as dinar investors tend to become amazed when the obvious action to correct certain negative forces within Iraq is not taken...one point is the removal of Sdar...
The only answer I can came up with is: either the Iraqi leaders are fearful of Sdar's influence within the Police and Military and afraid of what they may do...or the key leaders are in the bed with the same master...IRAN...

General Sun Tzu stated, "He who says he is going to war..... is Not...He who says he is not going to war IS...".

You are well read, so you can put the leaders that you have read about in the each respective category...I don't have to do it for you....

Be careful there Turle or your observations of perception will give someone the opportunity to give you a label...and by the way...

I agree with you....that must scare the hell out of ya?

-
----

I recently saw a history channel show about Iran yesterday and tomorrow......they said the same things such as Iran ....is in the process of attempting to become the new persian empire, by expanding their influence throughout their surrounding region. They also stated Iran now has a stronger influencial hand on the Iraqi people more than they have had in centuries.

Is that being pessimistic or just plain calling the cards as you see them...?

So far I belief my post have been pretty much on target...

History will have the final answer ...

-- October 12, 2006 8:02 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

From your post regarding counterfeit dinars, purchasing fake dinars is something rare though it could happen.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 12:36 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This is big news and, I believe, a prelude to a large shake-up of the Iraqi Government.

Maliki keeps dragging his feet about moving the country forward and his buddy Sadr continues to stir the pot. Both of them appear to have a very close relationship with Iran and this might be a big negative for them.

As long as Iraq doesn't crumble into small pieces....this still looks good for the future of the Dinar.
========================================================================================
Iraqi Parliament approves law to form federal regions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 October 2006 (The Daily Star)
The Iraqi Parliament on Wednesday approved a law that sets out the mechanics of forming federal regions, an issue the Sunni minority and some Shiites leaders and fear might tear the country apart.

The largest Sunni coalition in Parliament and two Shiite parties tried to prevent a vote on a bill by boycotting Wednesday's session to prevent the 275-seat body from reaching the necessary 50 percent quorum.

But the quorum was reached with 140 lawmakers, who voted on each of the bill's some 200 articles individually, passing them all unanimously.

The law includes a provision that regions cannot be formed for another 18 months, a concession to Sunni concerns.

The federalism law sets up a system for allowing provinces to join together into autonomous regions that would hold considerable self-rule powers, a right given to them under the Constitution adopted last year in a national referendum.

Sunnis fear a federal Iraq would hand northern and southern oilfields to ethnic Kurds and Shiites respectively, and would leave them trapped in a poor, desert rump state in central and western Iraq.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-12-10-2006&article=11030

-- October 12, 2006 12:47 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Okie:

This is big news. It is my hope federalism can truly work within a mideast context.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:17 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I think the possibility of getting fake Dinars is pretty slim, sure, any currency can be faked, but nowdays that's a very hard thing to do. If you are getting them from a bank, you have all the recourse in the world, if you are getting them from a dealer, select one that have a buy back guarantee, if they are fake. Usually they can be very confident setting up guarantee like that, because, first it's so darn hard to fake a Dinar bill, then all the bills are purchased from Banks in Kuwait, or Jordan or somewhere around Iraq, and if it comes out of a bank, they have most probably scanned the bills. Also, many dealers have a scan machine themselves, so all in all, the chances of you getting a fake Dinar bill, is, even though it is a possibility, slim to none.

I bought all my Dinars from dealers, just about the time I was done, and had achieved my goal of 30 mill Dinars( actually I went 10 mill over my goal, and totalled 40 mill Dinars) the banks started to deal with Dinars. I would go with banks only now, when that possibility have opened up.I do believe the deales are doing as good of a job that they can, but they are a pain to deal with, waiting all that time for the currency, unless you go with dealers that are sitting on the currency,and send it overnight, but you pay premium for it. Per reports on this site, banks are promising a 24 hour turnaround, not bad, thats in par with the fastest dealer, and the price is as low as you can get it, from the banks. Any lower price, and you have to go to Baghdad yourself.

I never answered your other question, of what denomination I have my currency in. I have them in 25000 Dinar bills only, because of size and storage practicalities, I do have just a couple of other denomintions, but only those tossed in as a perk when buying Dinars with the dealers. I only buy 25000 notes, still I had to go from a smaller safetybox up to the next size because of the volume of 25000 dinar bill notes.

Some have the idea of buying smaller denominations, for use in smaller exchange,when selling out, a little bit here and a little bit there. I can guess the thought behind it is to avoind being seen by IRS, but that assumes that the Dinar and Dollar must be in close vicinity of each other for that to be even a vialble point. I think we're a long way from that, but ok, as we all say, it's a long term investment so I can be wrong. The IRS redline is a transaction involving $10.000 or more, and it's pretty fresh mentally, to bank on the possibility that a 10.000 Dinar note will be the same as $10.000. That's a cool optimist. I like optimists, but from a pure practical standpoint, naa, 25000 denominations works best in all my thinkable schenarios.

As I say, go get them while you can.

Turtle,

Wow, pretty pricey means of communication, oh well, you are connected with the world though. I can see you do a lot of hours in the week working, guess there is no Union Rep, complaining to the company manager about unfairness in the workforce. Anyhow, if you see or hear anything unusual, or some movements going on, or even rumors, please keep posting. Eyes and ears from the ground is valuable.

All,

Noticed that the discussion is on the issue about positive or negative, optimist or pessimist, a bit lately.(me included) . A persons view on a situation is, with the data at hand, that THAT person have avaliable, the basis for his assessment.

Sometimes it's based on bias. A person can get away with murder in one persons eye, because ...it's her son.

Sometimes it's based on a persons personality, if he/she is apathic about most things in life, he/she would most certainly not be enthusiastic for much.

Here I think it's more a point beyon that. We have all invested to more or less degree into Dinars, and just by the act of doing it, we can say that we're not an apathic bunch.

I think it's more on rational basis that we try to interpret the schenario in Iraq.

Our common goal is to see the Dinar go up in value, so we can get return on the originally invested money, so we WANT to see an up trend, an improvement, an advance in some form towards that goal.

Different schenarios are played out, we all are sitting on diferent pictures, and different sources of information, just by the fact that we exist as different persons and are located in different locations from each other. It doesn't matter if two of us will sit down at a table, looking in each others eyes, and talk with each other for three months in a stretch, in an effort to align our info, our perceptions and thoughts. They still will be different.

We have a reality, the existing schenario, the existing facts, the existing circumstance.

The hardest part is to hear something we dont want to hear, something that goes against the common goal of having our Dinars rise in value, but it might very well be a more accurate, and truthful account of the schenario than the one that fits the mind of a wishful, hopeful and (perhaps) naive way of looking at it.

The more data you have at hand, the more dots can be connected, the more patterns start to emerge, and the more closer to the real picture you are. How a battle went, is not really known in full detail until after a couple of days after the event, when all the tales have come together, and there are still some unknown aspects of battles fought in the past, where scholars still argue about the way things happened.

That tells me :
1. There is no way we can claim to know everything that is going on.
2. The data presented is not a present time account, but have some element of delay ,long or short, into it.
3. The interest of presented data, may very well be in another interest than my interest.
4. The data might be either too few to make a reasonable decision or assuption with.
5. The data might be drowning in a flood of other data, making it very hard to prioritize the data.

Now, with one person sitting on a batch of data , and another one sitting with another batch, there will be discrepancies between the two accounts.

One WILL be more favourable and one WILL be less favourable to the common goal of increased value of the Dinar.

If it is a completely apathy presentation, then it is pretty clear that it is a negative person, but when the data is there, it might just be something we dont want to hear.

In my eyes, Carl is a person that have a very unique ability to cut through the social veneer, and see the real ugliness beneath the shining surface, that in my eyes is not a pessimistic person. I think a person that have an ability like that also have the ability to laugh and smile even better.

I have met with Carl, and have talked over the phone with him on occasion, and I can guarantee that we have a blast. Pessimism, gloom and dark heavy athmosphere is not in the mix at all.

Turtle, if it is too pessimistic in your eyes, just say, "cheer up buddy", It's all a matter of viewpoints of a situation.

I'm trying to be positive, and cheer people up, and if possible do some pep, but I have had posts in the past where after looking at the latest news, I had an idea the world was coming to an end.

I dont object at all Turtle that you think Carl is a negative person, thats your view of things, but if I may....tell that to him. Dont tell me, talking about Carl, as a third person, that you are avoiding this negative person, knowing fully well, that Carl is reading it.

Tell it straight to his face.

The reason I'm telling this is because this is so real to me, I have an accent, and sometimes when going into a convenience store, the girl chewing chewing gum behind the counter, stops chewing, and straight in front of my face, turn to a co-worker, in front of me,and insult me the gravest, asking, -"What's he saying?".

I have on a few occasions, been very loud, taking up the whole convenience store with my voice, going straight nose to nose, loudly telling her that if she doesn't understand, why dont you ask me, dont ask your co-worker, I'm standing here straight in front of you.....I'm I too small for you?...can you see me?....from where do you think this voice is coming?...from your co-worker?

-- October 12, 2006 3:19 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

US plans $142m radar sale to Iraq October 1, 2006 - The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of a possible sale to Iraq of one AN/FPS-117 or TPS-77 Long Range Air Traffic Control Radar, as well as associated equipment and services.
The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $142 million, said a statement.
The Government of Iraq has requested a possible sale of one AN/FPS-117 or TPS-77 Long Range Air Traffic Control Radar, support equipment, management support, spare and repair parts, supply support, training, publications and technical data, US Government and contractor technical assistance and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $142 million.
This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the US by helping to improve the security of a friendly country. This proposed sale directly supports the Iraqi government and serves the interests of the Iraqi people and the US.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:20 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

$6.6m World Bank grant for Iraq census October 1, 2006 - Iraq has been granted $6.6 million to finance its first nationwide census since 1993 so it can draft a poverty reduction plan, the World Bank said.
The World Bank-administered multi-donor Iraq Trust Fund offered two grants: $5.1 million to finance the survey on income, spending and living standards and $1.5 million for training on analyzing the results.
One generation ago Iraq's income and education and health indicators were high compared with regional averages, but they have since fallen to among the lowest in the region, the World Bank said.
"Modern systems for data collection and dissemination are essential for providing Iraq's policymakers with reliable information on which to base their decisions," said World Bank Country Director Joseph Saba.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:22 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

$49 million electricity project to improve Iraq's grid October 5, 2006 - The Iraqi and US governments have signed an agreement in order to establish 400 kV overhead lines from Tameen Province to Baghdad Province, Portal Iraq reported.
Officials at (USACE), the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, stated that the $49 million project will improve Iraq's national grid and its stability.
Iraqi Minister of Electricity, and the Commander of USACE's Gulf Region Division (GRD), signed the agreement late last month. The project is expected to be complete by the year 2008.
Official statistics showed that the national daily average for power was 12 hours with six in Baghdad.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:26 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

New financial management system to be initiated in Iraq October 10, 2006 - As part of assistance in the reconstruction and economic reform, new financial management system will be established in Iraq, within the technical assistance provided by the American Agency for International Development, Al-Sabah reported.
The political advisor of the agency revealed that that Iraqis will be able to know the balance of payments and what the Iraqi export of materials are and the amount involved in the state budget using the new system.
He further added that the activation of work on the project will start early on 2007.
The new system will add transparency and reduce the level of administrative corruption, said the official, he pointed out that system will enable government employees to obtain their salaries from banks.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:28 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraqi Airport Hopes to Land Tourists, NASA October 11, 2006 - The Kurds are building a new $300 million airport in Irbil that will take the biggest aircraft in the world, including the Russian Antonov 225 cargo plane and the American C-5 Galaxy, which is so big that the Wright brothers could have made their entire flight within its cargo bay.
The Kurds are hoping their dramatic mountain region, the one tranquil part of Iraq, will become a tourist haven as well as a transit refueling stop for international carriers between Europe and Asia or Australia.
But Kurdistan Regional Government Civil Aviation Director Zaid Zwain hopes the airport, scheduled for completion next year, will intrigue another potential customer: NASA.
When Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's military aircraft developed technical problems in Irbil last week, Zwain took advantage of the two-hour delay to tell U.S. officials and journalists about his goal of becoming a backup landing strip for NASA shuttles for emergency landings.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 3:29 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Participated in a non-scientific survey on www.dinarindex.com. 59% of those who participated believes the RV will occur beyond 2007.

28% believed the RV will be between .01 to .03 cents while 23% thinks the RV amount will be between .10 to .30 cents.

Another question I found interesting relates to the amount of Dinars owned. 34% own 0 to 250,000 dinar. 25% own 250,000 to 1,000,000. 25% own 1 to 5,000,000. 8% own 5 to 10,000,000 Dinars. Finally, 8% own over 10,000,000 Dinar.

Once RV occurs the site ask when its participants think they will cash in their Dinars. 9% say on revaluation. 30% plan to hold their Dinars for 5 to 10 years. 27% say they will only hold a few months.

The last question in the survey ask its participants where they live. According to recent results 43% taking the survey live in the U.K. while 41% live in the U.S.A. Europe 9%, Asia 3%, and other 5%.

Take the survey, its interesting to see how these results will change.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 12, 2006 4:02 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

HI All,

Pessimism,optimism, hopes and dissillusions...what does it all really matter???

We have NO CONTROL over the future of the Dinar. That is the crux of the emotions thrown into this pot.

Yesterday, my 5th daughter took me to show me the "castle" (>8000sq.ft) she is planning on buying WDH. She has a georgeous home now, and I wished she could just enjoy what she has and forget about these dam dinars There are so many things she could fill her time and energies on ( as we all can).

I find it ridiculous to entertain the KOOKS idea of turning any part of Iraq into a tourist attraction.

The whole nation ,at best, presents a schizophrenic profile!!!!

They should adapt the following as a national slogan

A FAMILIAR HELL IS BETTER THAN AN UNFAMILIAR HEAVEN.

For those of you that are in the region in the thick of things, my prayers and deepest regards for you. Iraq is your reality and I so hope that you can get some sense of accomplishment at the end of your day.

But for the rest of us, I know we will feel alot better if we go and tend to something in our lives that WE DO HAVE CONTROL OVER.
And understand that the emotional roller coaster that this issue of our Dinar has on our lives, has a better chance of killing us fromt he stress than the Dinar ever letting my daughter buy her castle!!!

Sorry, I ate nails for breakfast!!

-- October 12, 2006 5:06 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Carl and Roger: Actually, the Carl comment was more meant as a joke. As Carl has often played the devil's advocate, he has often been tagged the pessimist. Thus, when you threw that one at me, I turned it into a touch of a joke. It seemed fitting since you have spoken of meeting him, etc. It's primarily a matter of history. That said, if you want to label me as the label maker, feel free. But know this, I've been through a divorce and I don't think there is anything you can call me that hasn't been trumped already. Frankly, if I had meant it as an insult, I have no problem saying anything to anyone's face. So there in itself lies the crux, it wasn't meant to put anyone's shorts in a bind. If it was an intent to harm, I'm sure I could have come up with something better than the equivalent of poopoo head.

Just for the record, its not the first time and I doubt the last that we agree on a lot of things. Also understand this, if you want to call me the pessimist, fire away. 4 months ago it was near silence around here. Then we popped Zarqaqi about 30 miles from here. 4 months later I get to hear explosions every day. My friend was almost blown up and his buddy was shot in the head - professional 1 shot and move type. Iranian/Russian training you think? I've heard promise after promise that something will change here and it all gets lost somewhere in the ether above because it never reaches ground level. In short, a lot of talk but not action. My friends who are officers leading their men outside the gate are, for the first time, asking why we are wasting our time when there is no plan to cure the actual problems. They don't care to fight but they want to know they have a plan. My friend said that and I said then plan A - crush the Mahdi. Great he says, now turn me loose. The last time we went after the Mahdi, a special forces group picked one nasty scrum and they were crusified in the press for not asking Maliki's permission first. So does it scare me that we agree and that I may now wear the label? Naaa... I've been called worse and if it happens to fit... Ahh well... Maybe it do. Either way, I'll go to work tomorrow and hope Chris' article bares fruit. if the Sunnis do fall in, that would go a long way towards closing the Syrian border. With the Kurds slowing the Iranians, we might have a chance to pick Al Sadr's thugs down to size. but come tomorrow, I'll putter out with my only worry being that I don't throw a flip flop on the way to the shower shack. I'll do my job and really not think about anything beyond what's for lunch and what DVD I'll watch tonight. Should I subscribe to RussianBrides.com? Was that explosion a controlled det or a mortar? Should I fear that hair shirt met his demise to an electric razer since we have not heard form him in weeks? Will I log on to T&B and finally see another post from Bill1 telling us old age and alzhimers haven't taken over yet and his girls are home okay. Okay, I may not wonder that tomorrow but I will some time next week when I'm not debating the RussianBrides thing.

Point being, the pessimist thing was a joke. I could, as Carole eluded, care less because it doesn't matter. As Carl said, we'll still say the same thing if anyone asks our opinions tomorrow.

-- October 12, 2006 6:21 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Ps. I will probably still throw jabs that Roger has bad teethe and smells funny too. Like every other British trucker from Hello.

-- October 12, 2006 6:28 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Turtle:
No offense taken....I realize that sometimes my post appear to be on the negative side...if they are....it is because of what I see in the making does not have a rosie senario...
I have the tendency to read not what person says, but why they are saying it and what it is the motive....That will give you the true picture of events to come...this comes from my old law enforcement days...and you know what they say about old dogs!
Remember always....human beings "NEVER DO ANYTHING WITHOUT A MOTIVE OR REASON" The human psychic will project the direction of thinking if you just set and listen...

Sadar has already told you what he is intending....the iranians have already told us what they intend....malik has already projected his pattern of reaction to certain situations...
The details of the what is coming ....is just that details...

-- October 12, 2006 7:06 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Boy!!

I'm still burping nails!!!

I, for one can't jump on the band wagon of "get the dinars while you can...."

When.....if....who gives a shi***....

I can't be happy with a few million dollars, then I am looking for happiness in the wrong place.

I hope that someday, I will be sorry for not buying more, but I'll get over it while I am taking my trips around the world and playing many years in the World Poker tournament!!!!

-- October 12, 2006 8:00 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Carl: Truly scary thing is... I've been told that our intelligence support Maliki as a friend to our mission. I guess I missed something somewhere because I haven't seen this guy do anything but talk and half of that didn't seem very friendly to me. Anyway, maybe this guy has some secret master plan that I'm too dumb to follow. Boy is he good...

-- October 13, 2006 2:44 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Turtle and Carl have made up, well done, not an eye is dry. Well, Turtle became a bit bleedy there in his explanation, but he is forgiven, order and respect is restored, and between the two parties a contract of honorable greetings for seven generations to come, have been signed.

Still wrong about that Brittish stuff, I've been there but you just have to keep guessing.

I bought my dentures in a fleamarket in Mexico, they fit(well almost) perfectly, and I change my flypaper in the truck every month,( can be used as a snackbar on occasion) so I don't want to hear anything more about my hygiene now.

Ok back to business. when it comes to Sad'r, Malaki and that situation, the bad news is, that there is no news.

Once upon a time there was a war, when there is a war, the field commenders make the moves, take the immediate decision, and calculate the consequenses of doing so.

Now we have a decision process that makes the UN look efficient.

Either we are at war with the terrorists, the insurgents, and AlQaida, or we're not at war with them.

If we're NOT at war with them, dont call this a war. If we ARE at war, well let se some war then.

RobN,

Very interesting survey results, it seems like the average investor have a couple of bills in their possesion. Fewer have Dinars in the ten million range. Didnt know the Brits and the US was about in par when it comes to investing, but then again, this reflect the participants of the survey only. I just wonder how a person can be so completely enthusiastic and sink his life into the Dinar game, and sit on two 25.000 Dinar bills. In Dollars that may (if you're lucky) fill your gas tank once. If it goes well, and the Dinar goes to 10 cents, he can now buy a used car, with 95000 miles on it.(no warranty left)

Just have an idea, that it's a better idea to sell your children to medical experiments, and get a big chunk of Dinars, if they revalue, it will REALLY make a difference in your life.(still a chance of reposessing your children, if the crazy scientist haven't cut them up too bad)

I just have a hard time seing that a dream of the future is a used car. Oh, well. just a reflection.

I've seen one of those An224, mega monster loading at FedEx in Grenville/Spartenburg airport one night. With the tail gate open and the nose flipped up out, of the way, it's a cathedral in there. I was very impressed, made me think, why can't we build a couple of those mega moster ourselves, and used them as water bombers during our endless burning fire season, a couple of those and we could create a complete new weather system, heavy rain over big areas of land.

Carole,

Why not get'em while you can, you're in it already, and it's just a matter of getting a feeeeew more, and a feeew more. With your poker habit, it doesnt matter if you get all those millions anyway, you will be broke in a couple of months.

Guess it is as you say, the happines is elsewhere, so if you die broke, all the Dinars gone, well, the Coroner will notice that smile on your face.

After we're gone, who cares. Have fun Carole.

Sometimes I wonder if the dreams we're living now, isn't one of the better dreams we can have.

I'ts like having a lotto ticket in your wallet, without it, there is no reason to dream, but with just those few bucks invested in that ticket, wow, suddenly it's possible to project in the future all kinds of dreams, and what you would do with all those Lotto millions.

Sometimes I think that just because a lot of people can now project a future, that Dollar spent was worth it.

In a sense, the Dinar game is very similar, I just like the odds better in the Dinar game.

The odds in Lotto, (depending on what state your playing in) about 50 million to 1.

Odds of Iraq get their oilpumps going, thus the value of their currency.....dont know the numbers, but I say its a sure bet, and it's a much better odds than Powerball.

Dinars....Get'em while you can.

-- October 13, 2006 4:22 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Roger...

Since you were wondering what the odds are of the Iraqis getting their oilpumps going.....here's the equation.

we need oil=they can pump it for $1 a barrel= the dinar is a winner= %100 sure thing

Just their water resources and farmland would eventually drive the Dinar to a higher value. Their oil just quickens the pace.

-- October 13, 2006 8:16 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Since today is Friday the 13th it is my advise to you all to stay away from black cats, broken mirrors, and guys named Jason.

Friday the 13th evokes all things scary. Instead I hope today marks a good day in Iraq. Some of the news I posted from www.iraqieconomy.org gave me encouragement. Reconstructing and the road to federalizing Iraq is a long process.

I just hope Iraq really wants the same thing we are wanting for Iraq. One last word, Sara how about rejoining your friends here on the T & B.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 13, 2006 10:01 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Commentary

Liberal media are allergic to American values

By Michelle Malkin

October 13, 2006

CNN founder Ted Turner opened his mouth this week at the National Press Club, and promptly demonstrated why America needs Fox News Channel now more than ever.

Three years after the invasion of Iraq, Turner is still pouting about public displays of patriotism on American airwaves: "I mean, I just really wonder during the, during the last war, you know, what business did it have in the news sets to have the American flag flying in the background. Uh, I mean, it was like the news media covered the Iraq war, at least at the beginning of it, almost as like it was a football game with us versus them."

Funny, I can't recall Turner getting his undergarments in a bunch when CNN chose Saddam Hussein's side and former CNN executive Eason Jordan admitted the global news network had withheld reporting on Baathist atrocities in exchange for inside access and protection of its Baghdad staff. Recall Jordan's confession published in The New York Times after America toppled Saddam's regime in April 2003:

"I came to know several Iraqi officials well enough that they confided in me that Saddam Hussein was a maniac who had to be removed. One Foreign Ministry officer told me of a colleague who, finding out his brother had been executed by the regime, was forced, as a test of loyalty, to write a letter of congratulations on the act to Saddam Hussein. An aide to Uday once told me why he had no front teeth: henchmen had ripped them out with pliers and told him never to wear dentures, so he would always remember the price to be paid for upsetting his boss. Again, we could not broadcast anything these men said to us."

It's fine and dandy for CNN to wave Saddam's flag and carry his blood-stained water. But when Fox News sticks a two-postage-stamp-sized American flag on its screen? Only then will Ted Turner declare that journalism and reportorial objectivity have gone to hell.

But Turner's disdain for putting American citizenship above "citizen-of-the-world" preening isn't peculiar. It's the prevailing attitude in our newsrooms. Remember after the September 11 attacks when Stacey Woelfel, news director at KOMU-TV in Columbia, Mo., directed his staff to "leave the ribbons at home" in order to show viewers "that in no way are we influenced by the government in informing the public"? Or how about when ABC News spokesman Jeffrey Schneider told The Washington Post: "Especially in a time of national crisis, the most patriotic thing journalists can do is to remain as objective as possible. . . . [W]e cannot signal how we feel about a cause, even a justified and just cause, through some sort of outward symbol."

Elite news editors shrug at their reporters' highly politicized activities — from AIDS fund-raisers to pro-abortion rallies, environmental propaganda and unhinged Bush-bashing (new case in point: New York Times reporter Linda Greenhouse's recent moonbatty screed at Harvard University assailing everything from Gitmo to the Mexican-U.S. border fence). But wear a flag pin? Heresy!

When The New York Times blabs classified information about terrorism investigations and is reported to have tipped off FBI investigations of terror charity front groups, ethics mavens yawn. But when Fox News anchor Chris Wallace dares to broach President Clinton's war on terror failures, the mainstream media caterwauling crescendos. When Wallace is derided as a "monkey" for doing his job and Fox News head Roger Ailes' weight is mocked, the civility police in our journalism schools shut their eyes and ears.

When insipid New York Times columnists recycle mediocre columns into their umpteenth books, they score multiple book reviews and fawning magazine covers. When the No. 1 cable talk show host tops the best-seller list (again), crickets chirp. Bill O'Reilly's latest book, "Culture Warrior," is as much O'Reilly's story of success as it is Fox News Channel's. O'Reilly's fight against America-snubbing "secular progressives" is also Roger Ailes'. When The New York Times disparaged O'Reilly's war on the war on Christmas as a manufactured hoax, it was disparaging Fox News Channel's decision to listen to its audience — and respond.

The liberal media's 10-year allergic reaction to Fox News is triggered by any remotely positive exposure to American values on American airwaves. Well, here's to the next 10 years of giving establishment journalism the hives. Keep Old Glory flying high. It's driving Ted Turner mad.

Michelle Malkin writes for Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Suite 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. Send e-mail through www.creators.com.

-- October 13, 2006 10:59 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Roger,

I never said I had a "poker habit" I am a very poor loser,and only play with my "entertainment money". When my knees hurt, I trade my golf for poker. GEEEZ don't deny an old lady a little fun!!!LOL

Here are some vital statistics that validate your last posting to me.

100% of the time EVERYONE must die
100% of the time EVERYONE takes nothing with them.

Have a great Friday the 13th.

PS. My realestate freind is not returning my calls. I think he is on this site, under an alias name. If so---come on Lee call me, I won't bite, just want to know how your Costa Rico trip went!!!

-- October 13, 2006 11:35 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Ah reckin when they open up the Wally World store and McDonalds I'll go over and open up a Popeyes Chicken and really give em a treat....

========================================================================================
Kurdistan

PM opens Erbil’s largest shopping mall, urges business and investors to drive economy
By Erbil, Kurdistan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 October 2006 (KRG)
Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani today opened the largest shopping mall in Erbil – the New City Mall. In another sign of the Kurdistan Region’s continuing economic growth and stability, the New City Mall opened for business today, creating new market opportunities for the citizens of Erbil, and bringing at least 250 quality jobs to the local citizenry. Instead of cutting the traditional ribbon, the Prime Minister officially opened the New City Mall by turning on the Mall’s huge electronic billboard - a first for Erbil and the Kurdistan Region.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-13-10-2006&article=11051

-- October 13, 2006 1:00 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

I'm not sure if this is a good sign or bad. Thunderstorms today in Iraq. The good that we're getting more rain and about a month earlier than I'm used ot seeing. Good rainy season for next year's crops in the making. On the other hand, it is Friday the 13th and thunderstorms usually means lead to someone running through the woods and getting their heads chopped off. Just locked my door and being thankful that there aren't more than 20 trees within a mile of me.

-- October 13, 2006 2:33 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

Well, liberal media is'nt doing as well as it used to, Fox is gaining and libs are getting dragged behind.

Today I read, that Air America, the liberal puke spewing outlet, filed bankrupsy.

Carole,

Yes seems like your friend is hiding, just dont call him seven times a day, leave fifteen messages on his instant message cellphone, and leave insisting messages with his secretary, thats a sure way to keep him in hiding. It's not that urgent, we're just curious of what connections he have over there, it can wait, whenever.

Okie,

It's just a matter of time until Mall Wart is getting in there.

Turtle,

Thats not many trees, that means the dogs must be pretty desperate in Iraq, and wait in line to get to a tree. As a curiosa, the lonliest tree, held a record in Egypt for long many years, not a tree within hundreds of miles. Eventually the tree died, when an arab, collided with it. It just had to happen.

Friday the 13th.

It's October, ghosts and goblins are already in startup mode, pumpkins are carved and front porches starts to look like horrormovies. Dont pick up strangers, that smells fresh soil, you never know where they've been.

A beating case became known a couple of years back, because of released court documents.

A man hired two illegal Mexicans, gave them a bucket of paint and two brushes, and told them to paint the porch. He then walked away, not thinking of , in front of his porch, he had parked his Porche.

-- October 13, 2006 3:46 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

Yes I have given this some thoughts, the water and agricultural side is a clear winner, but I do believe that the sequence of things to happen have to be oil as the number one priority.

In order for the agricultural section to develop, they have to have development money, and this in turn have to be from oil income. There is irrigation in the area right now, but a true effective agricultural business like we have in the west is not in place yet. The crop, and water needs is monitored with a lot of electronic devises, very much automated, sattelite images can tell exactly if there is a problem in one corner of a field an so on. Harvest, collection, ditribution is a very computerized effective process, and to my knowledge the Iraqis are not reqally there yet, but are farming more in the old traditinal "Old McDonald had a farm" , way.

The way I see it, right now, they have the resources, the water, they have farming goin on, but a longer process involving investment in modern teqniques and modern practices is yet to come. That is not to say that some areas are modern, but the whole agricultural section is still not fully developed.

So my take is, get the oil pumping, and then watch the rest of Iraq develop and grow.

-- October 13, 2006 4:05 PM ∞

---

drka drka asama jihaad wrote:

2 months to RV. millions and millions of worthless paper.

-- October 13, 2006 4:44 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

drka drka asama jihaad:

Why the post? Have you purchased the NID? Curious, so I thought I would ask.

I do not believe an RV is iminent in 2 months. Nor, do I believe once the RV happens the iraqi currency will be worthless.

Thanks,

-- October 13, 2006 5:09 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

drka drka jihad and all that,

You just dont have a clue.

Please educate yourself a little bit.

I give you a clue, it will take about fifteen minutes out of your valuable life, but the knowledge you will have after that will put you far far above , what you are now.

Your choice, know whats going on, or stay clueless, and flap around saying clueless things you assume.( remember what the three first letters in the word assume spells)

Go to ......www.iraqcompact.org.

Just do that, and read the first article.

Ok, when you're done, go down to "Related Documents", and click on "ICI outline" and read it all.

Assuming you'r up to understanding what is said, without you falling asleep, or get distracted by a basketball game, complete the reading , every page, and let us know what's in there.

Once you're done, then you're welcome back and talk about worthless (?) Dinars.

-- October 13, 2006 5:36 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From another forum concerning why the Iraqi Dinar has not revalued:

"The reason why it hasn't revaled is because they were required to prove their ability to control wide fluctuations in the exchange rate, and implement prudent monetary policy for a period of 3 years. The NID was introduced by the Coalition Provisional Authority on Oct 15, 2003. Guess what ends this Sunday, Oct 15, 2006...the 3 year "control" period! I do not have a link...you'll simply have to trust me on this. It won't take long to see if I'm right or not...2 days and counting!!!!!"

Any thoughts of clarification?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 13, 2006 6:02 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

I have never ever seen the data "its a 3 year control period".

-- October 13, 2006 6:37 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This is the only link I had to the "assumed" rate of the Dinar from implementation up to 2006. Sounds like they used the dart board approach when setting the rate at $1=1500IQD

Makes me believe it needs to be placed at a real world rate....higher value I hope!

===========================================================================================
Four, in the process of preparing the government annual Budget for 2003 (for six months July-December 2003) and 2004 and the future strategy frameworks of 2005 and 2006 Budgets, it was assumed that the exchange rate of the NID is equivalent to $1=NID1,500. Neither the CBI nor the CPA gave any explanation or justification to that assumed rate. Also, the MoF and MoP failed to clarify in their published Budget any clue or comment on such an important decision. Indeed, it was arbitrarily determined, and may be a mere personal judgment. In effect, it reduced the then real purchasing power of the Iraqi Dinar (income) by about 25% without clear economic reason.

http://www.mees.com/postedarticles/oped/a47n36d02.htm

-- October 13, 2006 9:04 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

I agree with you about the oil having the most influential impact on the currency.

Every currency in any market has to be backed up with something of true value, thus the reason for our currency being backed by gold. It is the oldest standard by which any paper currency has it's value.

The intent of a peoples or their politics or the strength of their armies is not what is behind the currencies or economics of any nation.

The part that a nation plays in expressing or having thier natural resource back theri currency is their ability to extract and produce the product. And of course their ability to market that resource, and create a supply and demand
phenomena.

Did you know that Isreal is sitting on a wealth of oil.
There are geologists now who have discovered veins of oil that could impress all nations of the world.

I have known this for a while and wonder if all the fighting over that tiny little nation doesn't have something to do with it.

Thanks for posting those sites. I will read them tomorrow. Tonight I have a poker game waiting for me--haha

By the way, my guess is that you are an Eastern European guy.

AT first I thought maybe an Aussie, but you are too smart,even though some of your wit bares a resemblance.

YOur posting about selling the little children pointed to Eastern Europe, mixed with your script accent.

Am I close or right? Be truthful now.

-- October 13, 2006 11:32 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Roger-
I was unable to get the ICI guidelines to load. Is there any way you could copy, past and email it to me. Would be much appreciated.
Thank you
Mary Lou
mclay549@aol.com

-- October 13, 2006 11:44 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Lol-I meant copy,PASTE,and email

-- October 13, 2006 11:46 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Mary Lou,

I can argue Einsteins relativity theory, but when I try to find where the bookmarks are on the pjuter, or figure out why AOL have hijacked a site I'm pretty lost, have a hard time opening folders. I'm a bit novice about how to do all those fancy cut and paste stuff, perhaps if there is a person here with a little bit more pjuter knowledge, that can please help out Mary Lou here.

It's a key site to read, and it would be a bummer if Mary Lou would miss out on it.

( weired, if you need help with a computer, ask a 14 year old kid, and they can get out of any situation you're in)

I have a big X taped, with electric tape, in the back of my screen , thats the point I slap the computer when I want it reset.

Okie,
Wow, that was a really really hot link. That author was really informed and had it all together, I was impressed by him.

Yes, Dartboard it is, the current value seem to be just arbitrary choosen. I do however believe, that the current value was choosen as close as possible to the old "Saddam" Dinars value in order to not disturb the finance world too much( whatever was left of it at the time) , but since then, the true value of the Dinar , and the continous use of this arbitrary number is so missmatched it almost hurts just looking at it.

Again, really cool site.

Carole,

No not East Europe, I have however been in Moscow during the Soviet era, I like their Vodka, and Pirogs, but it's a bit too cold for me in those neighbourhoods. Keep guessing.

Oil found in Israel, no never heard that one. Ok we'll se how that develops. It's a very small country, and I can assume that even if they found a whole oilofield underneath the whole country, it cant really compete with big fields found elsewhere on this planet.

Carole, would it be a suprise if i told you that our currency is not backed by Gold. Long long ago in a galaxy far far away, the Dollar had Goldbacking.

If you are interested, and can get your attention away from those darn pokersites for a while, you might want to do some backscrolling on this blog and read up a little bit on that subject.

All the gold in Fort Knox can not back all the Dollars out there.You can not exchange Dollar for gold anymore. Fort Knox is nowdays a showpiece, all it says, is "look we're rich".

Dollar is not backed by anything. Oh that was wrong, it is, your's and mine agreement(and the rest of the world) that the Dollar have value.

That's all there is, there ain't no more.

-- October 14, 2006 4:20 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

HI ALL, I'm waiting like all of you for "WTDH", but I just can't see it happening till they control, for, let's say 98 percent of the bad guys, if you have an Iraqi making a million dinars a month now, roughly 700 to 750 USD, all that's gonna do is give impetus to the bad guys to pilage and plunder these helpless people. . .and I think the way to stop the bad guys, and I'm not so sure that "insurgent" is the right word just yet, is to put a lid on the Iraqi Police for a month and see what happens. . . everyone knows the oil is coming, but we're missing the real issue, and that is to stop the daily slaughter goin on in Baghdad. . . and I'm glad that this a friendly post. .

To Carole: have fun at the poker party. . .

To Roger: thanx for the wonderful insight that you have provided, I'll miss you folks, headin to Phuket for 3weeks of "BIG TIGER PRAWNS"
hope you all have a surprise for me when I return. . .

-- October 14, 2006 7:56 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Panhandler....

Don't go completely out of control in Phuket...remember you have to go back to work one of these days...well maybe not, WTDH you might still be in paradise.

I already have a house picked out that overlooks Patong Beach and hope that I can be there within a year.

-- October 14, 2006 9:38 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

ALL,

Does anyone know why Bagdad is the place where the violence is? WHy is it so peaceful in the Kurd territory? What are they doing or not doing to have control?

Are Iraqi citzens allowed to have their own guns?

Maybe if they had more money, several things woudl come into play:

They wouldn't be so helpless.
They would have money to arm themselves
They wouldn't be in a position to sell out to aiding the insurgents.

Pulling our ( and allies) ground troops back or out, and then bombing the hell out of Bagdad might be the answer. One that only the US can accomplish.

This is the part of the Politics I don't understand.

Iraq is a baby democracy. They are not going to be able to save themselves. It is like asking a new infant to get out of their cradle and make their own bottle of formula. It sin't going to happen. The babay is going to die.......

Panhandler, be safe and have fun...

I had a great time last night and did well at my poker party!! Thank you.

Roger, I only called my realestate friend once and was able to leave a message. The other times his cell would not work cause he was out of the country. My daughter tells me he is in the desert where he goes to
"hide out" and get some relaxation time. WHich tells me that the trip to COsta Rico was NOT a vacation.

I should hear from him sometime this week.

My guess, though is, that he has no more info than we have.

He did mention awhile back though about October being a pivotal month, because of "something" ( I can't remeember what) coing to an end.

I agree with panhandler. Commonsense must prevail. What entity is going to put money, time in effort into that country that does not have control over the violence.

It would be equivalent to someone constructing a NEW liquor store in the middle of Watts ( california)during the WATTS riots.

-- October 14, 2006 11:03 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carol:

There is nothing new about what is going on in Iraq when you look at history.
A third of the indivduals during our little spat with England wanted independence...
A third did not....and the rest....well they just were trying to survive and really didn't care which way it went.

Its all about cultural differences, revenge, resentments, hatrid, ya know all of the nicities of human nature...

Things will change, but they will change slowly as generations die out...

The Sunni's have a lot to answer for during their little reign over the centuries...atrocities is a mild name for some of their actions carried out on the shiites....isn't it amazing that the Universe has a way of giving each a taste of their on medicine...just natural state of law...whatever you put out you ....well you know the rest...

-- October 14, 2006 1:19 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Panhandler,

Happy trails to you, Tiger Prawns, beat small shrimp every day of the year. If you have a chance in the meanwhile you're up in our northwest corner, and are close to a pjuter, by all means, shoot a line or so.

Carole,

About gun control in Iraq, I know little about it, I did see a program some time ago, where they claim that an Iraqi can carry a handgun, but nothing military, like AK's and such. So its the same story again, what you legaly cant have, the criminal will have.

I dont belive an average Iraqi can even come close to afford to own a handgun, even here the prices are somewhat on the high end, if you want a quality piece.

A Name brand quality piece for 6-900 dollars is probably close to a half years wages or so over there. Bargain pieces in the 250-500 dollar range is probably still out of range.

Pocket rockets, in smaller calibers, in the 150- 250 dollar range might be closer to what he can afford, but thats not the gun he needs. He will need a full frame, high capacity decent caliber auto, stash it in his baggy daily wearing pyamas somewhere and have it handy.

Following that reasoning, I do believe the average Iraqi man have a hard time getting defensive guns for himself. It's a purely financial reason, I do believe.

Can you imagine what Sara Brady would say, if we would make sure that we send a couple of really big shipments of hand guns to the population of Baghdad right now.

-- October 14, 2006 1:38 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger/Carl/Anyone,

My questions still remains--

Why is there an area of Iraq that is going so well that someone would have the visions of grandeur of being a tourist attraction, and just a few hours away, there are death squads and daily butcherings going on. All under the same government/ Islamic regeime?

I just don't get it.

-- October 14, 2006 4:26 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

There are actually 18 provinces all together, only 4 have turmoil in them.Your question assumes that one area is calm and one is in turmoil, a 50/50 split.

No, the conflict is much more limited than that.

Why, they just hate each other because the Sunnis, cant understand that the Shiite is a different version of Islam, and vice versa. They dont really have a tolerant religion.

The Kurds always seem to be in their own cultural bubble, I read, that Christianity are gaining foothold amongst the Kurds, and that issue doesnt seem to upset them very much.

-- October 14, 2006 5:58 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger, if I understand you correctly, it makes it even more unacceptable that the situation is so out of control and NOT BEING HANDLED by those who are responsible for solving these outrageous acts of violence.

If it is so limited, as you state, as far as the regions,
a state of marshal law should and could stop it.

Our influence, because of the great cost of lives and money, should start dealing ultimatums. I can see why so many are against our continued presence there.

I vote for making ashes out of Bagdad and the other troubled regions and let it simmer for a few decades and use our influence and money to rebuild in the other 14 regions.

I know it is easy to sit back nd analyze from my computer, but it makes no less sense to sit by and continue these absurdities month after month and year after year and lives and money after more lives and money........

-- October 14, 2006 7:50 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Carole!
simply type in Kurds on the google search and you will find out why they don't have a insurgency problem.
There are numerious articles describing them and their culture...I must say they are one proud and strong ethnic group of people....
I believe if you compared them to the general run of the mill Iraqi...they would be pissed....
And....probably justified...

-- October 14, 2006 9:47 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

Okay, I read as much as I could tolerate on who and what the Kurds, Sunni's and Shiites, are to this world.

It is hard to beleive that such an ignorant bunch of people could even begin to exist in such an integral, hard to understand, much less keep up with the chanes, personalities, prejudices and sheer insanity of the different sects.

I guess I really feel sorry for the average chump that is just trying to get manslows basic needs met!!!

I can see where the US is in a no win situation. If the Shiites take control, which seems to be our goal, we piss off Saudi Arabia, and the middle east will never be anything but a whirlpool of blood.

It appears that there are so many outside factions, that the democracy that we are trying to give Iraq goes against the most powerful nations in the middle east.

Our attempts are going against centuries of hard core indoctrination of a multitude of philosophies, interpretations of Islam, including the attributes of God, etc. etc etc.

And these are issues that these people wage wars over and kill and slaughter eachother over, etc etc etc...

It is the axis of evil!!

I may sound absurd myself, but a misguided nuclear war head to wipe out the entire region of Iran. SYria, Turkey, Iraq, JOrdan,Saudia Arabia, and a few more incidentals, might be the only sensible hope of eradicating a problem that otherwise has no solution.

As a Christian, I have truly looked forward to the rapture of the church, for my own personal gain. NOw I realize that only the return of CHrist is ever going to make things right. It is very true, above all this world is and has been in one big spiritual war.

The Bible is very clear on who will win in the end, but getting to that point is what we are in the middle of right now.

-- October 15, 2006 12:21 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

Okay, I read as much as I could tolerate on who and what the Kurds, Sunni's and Shiites, are to this world.

It is hard to beleive that such an ignorant bunch of people could even begin to exist in such an integral, hard to understand, much less keep up with the chanes, personalities, prejudices and sheer insanity of the different sects.

I guess I really feel sorry for the average chump that is just trying to get manslows basic needs met!!!

I can see where the US is in a no win situation. If the Shiites take control, which seems to be our goal, we piss off Saudi Arabia, and the middle east will never be anything but a whirlpool of blood.

It appears that there are so many outside factions, that the democracy that we are trying to give Iraq goes against the most powerful nations in the middle east.

Our attempts are going against centuries of hard core indoctrination of a multitude of philosophies, interpretations of Islam, including the attributes of God, etc. etc etc.

And these are issues that these people wage wars over and kill and slaughter eachother over, etc etc etc...

It is the axis of evil!!

I may sound absurd myself, but a misguided nuclear war head to wipe out the entire region of Iran. SYria, Turkey, Iraq, JOrdan,Saudia Arabia, and a few more incidentals, might be the only sensible hope of eradicating a problem that otherwise has no solution.

As a Christian, I have truly looked forward to the rapture of the church, for my own personal gain. NOw I realize that only the return of CHrist is ever going to make things right. It is very true, above all this world is and has been in one big spiritual war.

The Bible is very clear on who will win in the end, but getting to that point is what we are in the middle of right now.

-- October 15, 2006 12:22 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

TO OKIE: We'll make good neighbors, at least we have one thing in common. . ."WTDH". . .

-- October 15, 2006 1:29 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

Nuking the whole Middle east, and be done with the "problem" once and for all, well, there is a strong following on that idea, but it's, even if it is highly practical, a bit radical. The Nazis tried, to "fix" the , in their eyes, unwanted and undesirable people, with gaschambers, so jews, communists, gays, gypsies and a whole lot of undesirables went that way.

It takes a lot of guts, and divine rightness for one person, or people, to justifyable just eradicate out the life of another specie. They are doing it left right and center in Baghdad right now, and we are upset , dont like it, and object to the inhumane way they are looking at things.

Coming from that, and going to...."lets nuke the hell out of them all." Well, Carole, perhaps it's time for some soul searching yourself. If that's what you want to be, thats what you are.

Once you're done with your soul searching, then you can tell me if you are what they are, or if you are something else.

-- October 15, 2006 2:21 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

And the Christians say...
Don't ya just love it when WE are on the right side....
and the Muslim says...when the 12 Imam returns we will be rid of the axis of evil america and all of the western cultures, we just love it when WE are on the right side...
And the Jews say....
....and the hindu's say....and the .....
and our CREATOR says...What the hell was I thinking .......?

Ignorant people....? HMMMMMM!!!

-- October 15, 2006 2:39 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Carole and Roger: I hate to say it but you're having a debate that our soldiers have inside their heart just about every day. Kill them all and let God sort them out. But then... The soldiers get out there an meet the people. The majority are good people and extremely friendly. When I first arrived here we had Iraqi civilains coming on my base and working to repair a building in my compund. Every day I entered these men were working like very few I have eveer seen. Crude tools so the job was labor intensive. They showed up dressed in whatever they had to wear which was usually rags for clothes and dress shoes. Every day they brought meager amounts of food and every day insisted on sharing with us - usually a fom of homemade bread that is common here. Picture walking down the streets of New York and having a begger say come friend eat my food and never ask for anything in return. It makes a mark on you, I promise, and gives you hope that with people like this in this country we cannot fail - THEY cannot fail. Then you have this minority of extremist jerk offs... It's like the playground bully that is able to keep the other 20 kids in fear. Only a bigger kid has been called in to subdue this bully. Problem is, this bully is smart. He just waits until you're not looking and smacks you in the back of the head with a rock. The other kids see it but know that eventually this bigger kid is going to leave and they will be left alone with the bully so they keep silent. So what do you do? Do you butcher the innocents? 5 days a week I say no, you don't. But at least 2 days a week some of "my boys" get hit and I kick right back into the innocents be damned mode. As Roger said, it does take some soul searching but I'm not going to tell you that you're the only one who thinks the way you do. Often. Churches are popular here on Sunday.

I have to add this also, those 4 regions seem to be some bloody large regions. Also, keep in mond that one of those is Baghdad which includes about 25% of the population - somehting like 10 million people. Kinda hard to weed those needles out of THAT haystack.

Side note: Roger once said he was from Cincinatti. I don't recall if that was a joke or not but that would put him coming from the Hello state.

-- October 15, 2006 3:04 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Turtle,

I appreciate the situation you are in and the your sharing what the troops are feeling about the war. The people of Iraq sound like good descent people.

I think we are going to have to set up a General McArthur occupation, if this government cannot get it together. Marshall law. The USA may have to make the hard choices as the leaders seem to have problems enforcing the new laws for security.

Roger,

If you are from Cincinnati, Ohio--I was born and raised there.

Turtle,

How is Cincinnati the Hello State?

All,

The war in Iraq is terribly frustrating for us to look at and down right devastating to the ordinary Iraqi. This man/woman and children face the frightening prospects of being killed and/or wounded each day.

Security is a big issue and for the life of me, I cannot understand why the USA does put a draft into place and put the troops in Iraq and impose Marshall law there.

--I know at this time, politics is what is playing with both parties and I for one am sick and tired of what I have been looking at with this congress, the President of the USA, and the people in the United States, who will not stand up and make the hard choices about this war.

The USA has more than $300 Billion invested in dollars and also the lost of life of our soldiers and allied soldiers. I cannot believe in cut and run from the Iraq war. It's now time to plan the peace and pay the price to get it.

We either need to do this or get out!

Laura

-- October 15, 2006 5:42 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Laura,

Thank you thank you!!

I could not have put it any better!

The comments to me about "searching my own soul" was (I feel) inappropriate.

I was merely looking at the broad picture of the centuries involved in the history of the "peoples" involved in what we ( the peoples of the world) now have to live and deal with.

War has no soul!! The reality that the "needle in the haystack" is impossible to find" demands the "hard choice" of eliminating the haystack.

Of course there are wonderful innocent men, women and children in Iraq. There were wonderful innocent , decent people in the World Towers, and in SPain and England, etc.etc.

And when the " dirty bombs" go off in the streets of the USA, many wonderful innocent men and women and children will suffer tortuous deaths.

It is funny that you mentioned "Mc Carthy". I was thinking the other day about his predictions for the world if we would not take care of ( make the hard choices) about Asia. Certainly, if we had followed his thinking, we would not be in a situation where N. Korea is dealing the world the threat that it
is now.

We lost in Viet nam, because the hard choices were not made. The stakes for that area of the world were high and depending on us to win. But not nearly as high as they are now. Because ,now, the stakes are not isolated to a region, but to the world.

And, if I understand the radical Islamic thinking, their goal is to convert the peoples and nations of the world to Islam or desrtoy those who will not convert.

And their eternal destiny is dependent and rewarded on this global effort becoming a reality.

How do we dare not deal with this?? What will be the outcome for not making the hard choices?

Speaking to " snapshot" views of this situation is dangerous and impedes efforts of a positive outcome.
Isolated "heart-tugging" conjectures has no place in this discussion of dealing with this, now global, problem.

To be equated with the heart of Hitler, when expressing views based on exasperation of the middle east history and conflicts, is not only insulting but, in my view shallow and ignorant.

My human heart and soul, wnats it to be Christmas everyday!! It wants all people on this earth to have love and harmony and respect for eachother.

I believe that was our Creator's intentions from the begining. But that all changed in the Garden of Eden, when the hearts and minds ofHis creation went counter to those divine intentions.

Relativists, will always cloud and confuse the big picture, and never get to the
point of solutions.

I am a great believer that timing is everything. I understand the consequences of the "cut and run" mentality. But I also believe that recognizing the conditions to cut and run timely, maybe the only prudent thing to do when time is running out.

When Congress, the President and the Generals say " attack and destroy", I would wholeheartedly be for the draft. BUt to draft hundreds of thousands of our young people to end up with what we did in Viet Nam would be the absolute wrong thing to do, and repeating that travesty would be something we would never recover from.

Peace through strength has escaped our leaders perspectives, there is no doubt about it. Global opinion has replaced that perspective. And the enenies of peace have discovered that, as much of the world is fast getting the picture that the USA is not the security to the world as it once was.

Taking this to my world, I think about someones body who has been invaded with cancer. Chemotherapy provides the hope of erradicating the invasive destructive cells. But in the process, good healthy cells must be destroyed in an effort to save the host (the body) AND TIMING IS EVERYTHING. And yes, hard choices have to be made.

Roger, Carl, and Tutle:

I have searched my soul. It is sad hurt and confused. And very thankful that I am not the one who has to pull the trigger on making the hard choices.

Asi es la vida---so wake up and smell the coffee!

Because WTDH if this middle east picture isn't resloved or in good progress of being resolved, to think that it will bring your soul peace and contentment is dellusional! at best.

-- October 15, 2006 10:04 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

No warm and fuzzy intended.

By the way, I changed my mind--- not eastern Europe, probably Eastern Ozarks, or Eastern Mars!

-- October 15, 2006 10:23 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

The world's most successful economy is the American economy. The world's second most successful economy is the Western European one.

The American military has been in Europe since the Second World War. It was necessary for them to be there, first to defeat the Nazis. They did this. Job well done. Then, America had to stay there till the Soviet Union came down, to provide security for Western Europeans. They did this. Job well done.

Now what? The American troops are still in Europe. Why? Hasn't anyone noticed the Cold War is over. We won. The Soviets lost, then collapsed. The Berlin Wall came down. President Reagan came to the Wall, and said in a speech, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall". A year later, the wall came down. Job well done. For a while there, I thought he would rename himself Joshua Reagan, instead of Ronald. Well done.

This is now 2006, not 1949. The Wall has been down for a decade. Europe is rich. They can afford their own military. The teenager has grown up, but mom is still doing the laundry, and the rent is free. America has spent over a trillion dollars, defending the Europeans. What's up with that?

Now, Russia is all that is left of the Soviet Union. Communism has collapsed. It is a failure. Why are American troops still in Europe?

Europeans nowadays usually dislike Americans anyway. They are always making disparaging remarks about "war mongering Americans." That's right, America has defended them for half a century, paid the bill, and they don't like Americans. They especially hate President Bush. They are like ungrateful spoiled teenagers. Why is the American taxpayer footing the bill for Fritz, the German millionaire?

Maybe it's time to scrap NATO and redeploy the troops. Who needs the draft? America doesn't need the draft. America has lots of troops in Europe, ready to fight an enemy that is non-existant.

Take some of the troops out of Europe, I say. Tell the leaders of Europe you have to look after yourself now. You are big boys now, Jacque and Fritz and Tony. Also, you have lots of money. You have recovered from the war. The Second World War was half a century ago. Time to move on.

Then President Bush should start deploying American soldiers where there are real enemies, like in Iraq.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

-- October 15, 2006 11:19 AM ∞

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Terry853 wrote:

Hey Turtle-Excellent Post!! I am a Canadian and I back this conflict 100%. The west must draw the line but allways remember that the average joe-American,Canadian,Iraqi is a good person!!
Hey Carole take a chill pill!! You are talking about nuking the Iraq's while bemoaning the fact that North Korea may have a nuclear weapon.

-- October 15, 2006 11:27 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Okay, I have not seen this in the news but I have been told that common sense has finally won a victory. I was informed today that Maliki has issued an order that they will begin recruiting and training an equal number of Sunni and Shia police. Every checkpoint is to be manned by an equal number of each forcing both to be honest. WOW!!! What a concept!! Well guys, if this happens we may be able to start making progress again. Quickly... Almost makes me wonder if Maliki stopped in Vegas while visiting the US.

Ohio the Hello State... Not really, just something a friend of mine from Ohio used to say. Ohio (pronounced, no idea how it is spelled) is hello in Japanese.

-- October 15, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This sounds more like a "planted" story to give another strong warning to Maliki....get rid of the militias and Sadr or you're outta there.

I'm a firm believer that our Government and Military have done a remarkable job in bringing Iraq further along the path to freedom.

Our military is right in the middle of a difficult war and they deserve our best support.

I believe Iraq will end up being a moderate country like Jordan, Bahrain or the UAE.

=======================================================================================
Talk of ousting PM threatens Iraq democracy
Marie Colvin, Baghdad
October 16, 2006
IRAQ'S fragile democracy, weakened by mounting chaos and a rapidly rising death toll, is being challenged by calls for the formation of a hardline "government of national salvation".
The proposal, which is being widely discussed in political and intelligence circles in Baghdad, is to replace the Shia-led Government of Nouri al-Maliki, the Prime Minister, with a regime that is capable of imposing order and confronting the sectarian militias leading the country to the brink of civil war.

Saleh al-Mutlak, a prominent Sunni politician, travelled to Arab capitals last week seeking support for the replacement of the present Government with a group of five strongmen who would impose martial law and either dissolve parliament or halt its participation in day-to-day government.

Other Iraqis dismissed the idea that a unilateral change in the leadership would be desirable or even possible.

"The only person who can undertake a coup in Iraq now is General George Casey (the US commander) and I don't think the Americans are inclined to go in that direction," said Ahmed Chalabi, the head of a rival political party.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20587637-2703,00.html

-- October 15, 2006 3:31 PM ∞

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the poor man wrote:

Done some reading and my assumptions are that capitalist have started to use technologies and propaganda to boost their own agendas to keep the poor man poor and make the rich man richer

-- October 15, 2006 4:23 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Spot on.

Turtle,

Good post from the ground, yes, of course, when you get hit in the face, or a friend gets it in the back, it's easy to do the Nazi thinking, grab hold of 300 innocents, line them up and shoot them.

A whole French village was once killed that way. When Chief of Gestapo in Czechoslovakia, Heinrich, was assassinated by British agents, they killed another Czech village, levelled all the houses. This was small potato's compared with that they did in the Eastern Europe.

Then you see the people that do their daily work, day by day, the working Joe, and wonder what he's got to do with anything that is destructive.

Every day he hammer, bang, cut, fashion, and assemble something, he have raised one standard, he have improved the life in one aspect or the other. These people are the ones that bring a nation forward, theirs or our own. I don't care if he is an Iraqi, Iranian, Russian, Canadian or A US guy.

This is the sane guy, insane are unable to produce, may it be an idle rich, or bum on the street, lazy freeloader or hardcore criminal.

I'm not against violence in itself, if this is applied to criminals, murderers, kidnappers or thugs running around assassinating people.

I can eat a steak, knowing that the cow, was violently put to death, I'm not concerned, I'm not overly upset about the death row inmates.

Making melted radioactive glass out of the Middle East, sure, I've thought so also from time to time. The guy that cut you off, making you slam the brakes, oh man what destructive fantasies I have about him.

I don't know how many times we, secretly wished someone was dead.

The thought is free, no prosecution, and God don't care. You can have the darkest, most perverted, murderous thoughts you like. Enjoy the movie. The difference is in you deeds. When you actually DID go and kill the guy that cut you off, that's the exact point when you became a murderer.

Laura, Turtle,

No I'm not from Cincinnati, I used it in a joke one day, regarding my accent. If I remember it right, I claimed to be from Cincinnati, and used my accent only to impress women. It was a joke, sorry it came across as a fact, no, not Cincinnati. Guess again.

Carole,

Way off.

Tim Bitts,

You hit on something really important here. It's a mystery to me, why we in fact have the old East/West military set up, with big bases where we absolutely don't need it.

Long after the actual political picture changed, the military set up is still in place as a remnant of the old picture. The military for sure have changed tactically, and have developed a more efficient way to conduct war, but the big deployment picture have not changed.

Germany was the front line to the Iron Curtain once, now this is a place far in the back lines somewhere. Russia is a very weak undeveloped huge sluggish almost on the brink of becoming a 3rd world country, and poses no bigger threat, ind even if Russia would act up, is of a far lesser threat than under the Soviet era. They have very little money to weapons development, no significant computer industry (other than hackers, sitting in University dorms, thinking it's fun making viruses), a very small fleet compared with what they once had, (sitting and rusting away), a Doctor making $200/ month, old apartment houses, where they turn on the heat in October. Potholes, and bad roads.

The Soviet society, even though it's gone on paper, in practicality, they have been so slow of dismantling it, it's for all practical purposes, still there, but in a new more corrupted form.

So Other countries, Poland, Checks, Slovaks, Bulgaria, Romania Ukraine, Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, have been quick to go the western way, introducing free trade, and align their system with the rest of the world, Russia is still in a state of psychosis.

NATO have applications from many of those states, and Russia, in it's old thinking, sees this as a threat.

Enough changes have taken place though, and the US Russian cooperation is pretty big in the oil and space industry. Lot of legal hurdles, over there because "if it's in Russia, it's a problem".

Russia is a big burping old giant, walking the way crabs do, backwards. It's close up secretive society, is gone, and there is no way they are able now to change the westernizing process. They play the Rock n Roll, watch American movies, and see the Iraq war in the same time as we do, through the same lens.

To have big military bases, set up around the old Soviet empires borders, is impractical, and useless.

I'm aware that there was a movement some time ago about closing the big German base, but the local German economy was to suffer very much, and the Germans protested, and that was the last I heard about that.

You're right, I am hauling cars for a profession. I have been to ports, and factories, where there is a sea of BMW's VW's, Mercedes, Audis, and Porches.

I really don't know , if a country is in such a shape that they are able to produce such a good products, do they really need local subsidiaries in the form of an American base, just to keep the local economy going?

You are right, lets get out of there, our presence is no longer required.

NATO in the form it's in now, is not really what it was once. It's a treaty and an agreement, but as such it's not worth more than the local immediate nature of circumstances.

Turkey, a NATO member, refused US troops at the invasion of Iraq. So much for being on the same page.

Greece and Turkey, both NATO members, in conflict over Cyprus, The Turks, just landed there and took over most of the Island about 35 years ago. Shots was fired in skirmishes between those countries, but no war erupted.

Iceland, a fishing nation above all, extended it's international borders out to the sea, in order to protect their livelihood. The Brits, taking it for granted to go up all the way to Island, and fish, got a bit upset and sent a couple of destroyers. There was a stand off for a couple of days there, when a Icelandic patrol boat cut the trawl off one of the British fishing boats. Both NATO members.

The whole idea of NATO is a bit on the old side, I guess it can be revamped more into a non aggression pact, or mutual aid in case of war or something similar, but as it sits right now, it starts to look like another one of those bureaucratic organizations with a government in Brussels.

The whole basic idea with NATO is that all the members is a part of one big well oiled war machine, that strategic and tactical operations can take place using one or more or all participating countries capabilities.

That means that the logistics and administrative chain in the joining country must align with the rest of NATO, using it's required ammo, and field operational manuals.

It's too clumsy of an organisation, it's been sitting idle for over 15 years now, knowing it's original intended purpose will never be fulfilled.

The amount of resources, this NATO and troop deployment to old cold war era bases are drawing out of our budget, well I can only start to speculate, but I'm sure it will buy you and me a pretty nice house, for starters, it probably will buy us a smaller European country, rather.

Germany can by all means maintain a base, and we can have an agreement that we can come back IF NEEDED. There is no reason to sit on Okinawa, let the Japanese maintain that base if they see fit, and if the North Koreans act up, we can come in IF NEEDED.

In a sense that would be a much better policy, if we get invaded by Mexicans over the border,(as we are) we can bring in the Germans, and line them up across the desert and let them take care of it.

Only a country with very small population would by necessity need a military draft. It is a solution that however must be avoided as much as possible. If you don't want to be there, you will not be a good soldier. The military forces needs people that are determined to do good in the service, and that will only be achieved when they are signing up by free will.

In the past when war was very labor intensive, (you needed an aluminum overcast of airplanes to achieve a goal), draft was a must.

With today's technology, very very few machines, and people involved, can achieve what only thousands upon thousands of military personnel could achieve in the past, so by technological progress, the direction is not going towards a draft military.

If we have about 130.000 troops on the ground in Iraq, what I don't understand, what is missing in order to clean up
Baghdad.

The nature of the job is certainly military, it's militias. It's not a sudden crime spree, or some statistical anomaly where one day by coincident a big band of guys happened to get their hands on AK's.

It seems like the idea is this, "lets build a fort with palisades out on the desert, that will keep us safe from the Indians".

That worked in the 1800's, so now were in all this bases around the world, and we have a tendency to see it as a de facto presence, and existence, of our self that can not be denied, a position that in it self is a defendable point.

So if we go to Iraq, and build us all these small bases all across the country, put wire up, and now we have again all these forts. The concept is "inside or outside of the wire". Homefree or in danger.

The whole purpose with the military, their whole training, and reason for being, is to face the enemy, to be where the enemy is, to crush the enemy, and make sure he is utterly defeated.

I don't know where this have gone wrong in the whole chain of events, the whole chain of command of the whole chain of thinking.

There is the enemy, he's been taking over Baghdad in fact, our armed forces, is sitting in forts, sending out patrols on occasion, but is not facing the decisive battle with the known enemy.

There might be a lot of variations of possible plans, one could be to surround Sad'r city, make it airtight, and start knocking down doors. That will make the militia panic very quick, and they will be a very visible force.

Other variations may very well exist, but the point is, it's not happening.

Faluja was a success, it worked, do it again, and again, until this thing is taken care of.

-- October 15, 2006 4:35 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

The poor man wrote,

You will stay poor as long as you are under the assumption that THEY are rich BECAUSE you are poor.

You have bought the Karl Marx idea about the concept of a fixed ammount of money, the idea that there is only X ammount of money in the world, and a poor man is poor because a rich have already gotten all the richness. The idea that poor countries are poor because rich countries have gobbled up all the money. (What could be better to blame than the western culture, and the US in particular)

You get wealth when you produce my friend, you will not get wealth by looking at someone elses wealth and claim that it is "unfair".

Come up with a business idea, where you can sell or produce or give a service that is exchangeable for the going currency, and you will see what I mean.

Of course, the friends you are with right now, also under the proffessors Marx influence, that the world owes them a living, will then come to you and demand all kind of free favours, because this is only fair and "hey I'm your old friend" .

You will find out that your friends, the people you were with earlier, now is a burden to you, they have no energy themselves, they are not producing anything , they are living either with the help of the state, or loans or mom, and have no ability to hold a job, they have an idea that they want a "real"job, with secretary, car and cellphone added into the $85000 year wages as a vice president of the company. Flipping burgers is beneath them.

They are very eager to protest against anything the earlier generation produced, but are very unwilling to do their own laundry.

"The poor man wrote", you're there right now, the life is unfair, you want better, but have not really seen the point in taking yourself to that point. Someone else has to take you there.

Watching TV will not take you anywhere, shooting blobs on a scren, saving the princess from the evil Gorth's and his three evil forces will not help you either, you did not get sucess in your life when you managed to pick up the invisible coat in one of the dungeons, or got another bonus of five lives.

I know, life is boring, nothing going on( meaning someone have to serve you entertainment), you dont have any money and that sucks, you just spent moms allowance, she sent you, you'r at the end of your student loan, and have quite some time left to survive in school campus, (beer is expensive, and you must of course in the name of fairness buy your firends their beer too).

Uh...lets do some thinking...I'm broke...uh,,, that sucks... where is the money....rich have them...uh, ....yeah, yea yea, ...it must be a plot of some sort....let me think a little bit more.....uh, oh man being poor sucks...uh, ok I got it, the rich are getting ritcher and the poor are getting poorer, because the rich are using ....uh.... technology....(that sounds intelligent enough).. uh...I got it, yeah,yea yea ...thats the way it is......

That explains everything my friend. Thankyou very very much for sharing your thoughts on the existence of man. We really like your deep insight and would looove to hear from you in the future, explaining to us these evil financial forces, that are such a menance to the world. Look at all the harm finances are doing all around the world. Where would mankind be without persons like you, that enlightens us in our deep and desperate hunger for the truth about the exact nature of things.

-- October 15, 2006 5:23 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Turtle,

That was good news, still think that a decisive battle is needed.

Okie,
Agree, could be another kick in the butt, posting to make someone get off their butt. When it comes to the armed forces, agree again, they have done an outstanding job, however, it's the way they are used right now I'm objecting to, again, still think a decisive battle would be in order, or a couple of them Faluja style. Get them out get them visible, get rid of them.

-- October 15, 2006 5:28 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: Absolutely agreed. Something decisive has ot happen to take the respect of the people back and let them know they can come to us without fear.

The players are in place for something big to come down. 1st Cav is rolling in now and they have a different attitude. What can I say, most of the boys are from texas. Even their patch has to be the biggest. Who better to make a statement? This is purely me thinking and doesn't have an ounce of information ot back it, but based on the attitude of the 1st Cav, I expect them to smack the bully and let him know they are in town.

30,000 Sunni force being raised out west. 1st Cav rolling in. Strykers that were extended for atleast 2 more months itching to do some damage to those who caused them to have to stay... For some reason I am expecting something in the next 2-3 months. I reserve every right to be wrong in this but... Something in my gut expects that statement to be made and don't be shocked to see a 1st Cav crest spray painted over Sadr City or Baghdad. (If I'm right, I bet there won't be a Custer leading the charge.)

-- October 15, 2006 5:58 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

All,

Have been cruising the regular sites, but have come up pretty emptyhanded when it comes to news regarding the Dinar. I could use anything right now to boost my Dinaroholic addiction, anyone seen anything that at least is remotely connected to the Dinar, in the news lately?

-- October 15, 2006 6:10 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, I agree. I would add that the many billions that America continues to spend on European defence acts as a giant economic subsidy to the Europeans.

It's a little like welfare. If there is a single mom, who just lost her husband, and has three kids, I have sympathy for her. She needs help. Europe was like that after the Second World War. It was a real basket case. Not any more.

The single mom has remarried and they both earn a good living. In other words, Europe has been rebuilt, thanks to the Marshall plan, and American generositiy.

The thing with welfare, is the psychological baggage and damage that goes with it that becomes even a bigger issue than the money itself. Welfare trains people to be dependent. It takes away their power to help themselves. People become less self-reliant. They become weak and whiny.

Europe has had an enormous welfare checque, courtesy on the American taxpayer, for a long time now. America has fought off an enormous enemy, first Nazi Germany, then the Soviet Union, for Europe. Without America, all of Europe would be a big basketcase, just like Russian is now, or would be saying Heil Hitler in school.

I read the other day that the Norwegan Army is in Afghanistan, as part of the NATO committment to fight the Taliban in that country. Well, it turns out, the Norwegians, like the rest of the Europeans "fighting" in that country, they only remain there if they can be away from the action, in less hostile regions of that country. The Americans have to face the real danger, and do all the heavy lifting, and all the real soldiering.

That European attitude comes from half a century of the Americans fighting off an enemy who wanted to dominate their society, who paid the bill to defend Europe.

Europe has, in my opinion, turned into an effete, helpless set of countries. They can't defend themselves. The mess in the Balkans peninsula a few years ago, where tens of thousands of Europeans were being slaughtered, the rest of Europe didn't have the backbone to do anything about. Remember that?

I think all this pathetic response comes out of too much protection from the States. Like a welfare recipient, they grow dependent, whiny, lacking in self-reliance, with a distorted view of reality. That's why, in this War on Terror, Europe is not really much of an ally. Most of them, with the main exceptions being the Brits and Poles, try to subvert America at every step.

The solution is obviously a radical reform of NATO, with the Europeans covering most of the cost, and the Americans just backing them up. That means Europe must pay it's own bill. It should raise it's own army.

If you look at the history of Europe, it's obvious there has been a lot of warfare, so I don't think they would have trouble putting together an army, if they had to.

The European welfare state, and the whole statist mentality, and a belief in big government, is another thing that sets the Europeans apart from the Americans. Their benefits for welfare and retirement for their people are much more generous than the States. The reason they can afford this is America is subsidising a large part of any nation's budget: defence.

So Bob and Mary, two hardworking Americans in Cincinatti, are subsidizing Pierre's pension.

Change that and stop subsidizing Europe's defence bill and you will slowly change Europe's mentality. They will in time become more self-reliant. Less needy. Less whiny. More hands on, can-do types. More assertive. Able to protect themselves. More realistic about the world and the Muslim threat.

In other words, they would become more like Americans.

Right now, the entire continent is in a kind of bubble, cut off from historical reality. This makes for an amoral, slightly retarded culture.

Like a twenty five year old that doesn't go to work, doesn't go to school, and who's main ambition in life is to test video games, Europe is too needy and dependent on America.

Time to cut the apron strings.

I hope America wakes up one day and realizes it is enabling Euro-weany stupidity. America needs to kick the 25 year old out, and tell him to get a job.

Maybe President Bush should call up Dr. Phil. He seems to know how to motivate lazy layabouts.

-- October 15, 2006 6:12 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Cool thanks for the info, hope they let loose those Texas boys over there, see if you can snap up anything if this is just a replacement or if this is a build up for something to come, I understand you're not told anything, but sometimes you can read between the lines, or see the obvious, just by a build up in troops.

Hope what you're seing is the "kickass" program.

I , and I think many more with me,(not to mention the innocent in Baghdad) would feel a relief if and when the offensive would start.

IF this is the beginning of the buildup, I think, it will be like the Dinars, we will not be told anything until it starts. Probably the units roll out into position at 2.30 AM some morning.

-- October 15, 2006 6:21 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The 1st Cav is on normal rotation and yes.....they know exactly what to do in any situation they're faced with.

I think by the time they get deployed the situation with Maliki will be settled and they can go after the militias without any restraints.

Sadr has American blood on his hands and he wants more. This fat mofo and his grunts need to go bye bye in the near future

-- October 15, 2006 7:12 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

For all whiners, and I'm part of that crowd, that believe our bases are no longer needed in Europe can now get happy because the plan to move them was made a few years ago.

Carole....Just got my ticket for a tourist trip to Kurdistan....can't wait to get that good ole hummus like mama makes.

======================================================================================
US troops set for Bulgaria bases

US troops could be deployed to trouble spots from Bulgarian bases
The United States and Bulgaria have signed an agreement that will allow US troops to use three military bases in Bulgaria.
The BBC's South-East Europe analyst Gabriel Partos examines the details of the agreement.

Ever since the United States announced two years ago a big shake-up in its military presence in Europe, Bulgaria has been among the countries lobbying most eagerly for the stationing of US troops on its territory.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4951726.stm

-- October 15, 2006 7:47 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sorry...last post was me.

-- October 15, 2006 7:50 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Today seems to be the authors day, plenty of key clicking. I have to wait for a load. Haven't got this much time in a long while.

Europe yes, it's a different world, however, in general it's like you describe it, but in detail it's a bit different. I have spent many ears over there and have been in most European countries. I'm very aware of the way they think where they're coming from and the reasoning behind it.

First, as a generality, talk about Europe is the same mistake as talking about the US , but just saying America, (involving Mexico Argentina, Brazil and so on). The language, and cultural differences are to such an extent still dividing the continent that just by language, they don't understand each other.

By culture, and language, just associating a Brit with a French is the same mistake as with a general sweep say that all Americans are like Mexicans and Quebec's.

The difference in world view is from the standpoint you are looking. Reading about the WW2 for example, it might be many times an underlying portrait that the US fought the WW2 in Europe.

It's almost a propagandist viewpoint that make it almost seem like the US and the Nazis were the two main combatants. Keep telling that to a Brit and you will understand why he will ask you to stop chewing chewing gum and actually read a book on occasion.

True, the US war effort was big and considerable, and by no means anything that should be cut down or marginalized, but after the conflict here in the US, the idea is almost like the US did it alone.

The Brits, put a total amount of bombs dropped on Germany to a much higher number, than the US effort. The main war effort in that conflict happened in the almost forgotten East Front, where the German and the Soviet forces, were fighting. We put our losses in WW2 as about a half million people (that is with the Pacific and European theater counted) The Soviet losses is still in debate, but seem to have centered around the figure of 7 to 8 million men. Not counting the civilian losses.

The amount of tanks, men and materiel, produced in Russia was a juggernaut, even with US material in help, their own production widely over produced Germany's needed war production.

In American accounts, I never hear and read about the British fleet operating in unison with the us fleet in the Pacific, a British fleet BIGGER than their badly needed Atlantic fleet.

The US ended the Pacific war with an atomic blast, but the weeks before that, Russia declared war on Japan, and took away as much territory from the Japanese, that they basically only had their own Island left.

The war effort was a combined effort between allied forces, The very biggest effort the US did in that war, was to be able to produce huge quantity of war materiel. The actual fighting, other countries had a much bigger effort involved.

Again, not to minimize the US effort, its the later historical account that gets it wrong. The Europeans know all their history much better than the American kid, he doesn't know who fought the Civil War. If you help him by saying "North and South", he says, in a wild guess ok, -Canada and Mexico????.

So you must understand when an American, comes to Normandy and claim that there's where "we" landed, he is completely unaware of that the US landed on TWO beaches, while the Brits landed on TWO other beaches, and the Canadians on ONE beach.

This is the prevailing American attitude, we saved you....now be thankful.

When it comes to the Social set up in Europe, we need to understand this go back to our own situation here in the US, after the civil war, and up until the very beginning of WW1.

When the industrialization boomed, the factories was able to mass produce goods and quick get a monopoly of things. Railroads, mines, oil to name a few heavyweights.

The business world was almost not regulated at all, any screwed and bully tactic was allowed, workers was exploited with very long hours of endless, dangerous work in unhealthy conditions, for wages that was barely survivable. Children was used extensively and there was no social network to fall back on. You got sick, or couldn't work, well you were out of work.

Around that time, Karl Marx had an idea about the Socialist world, he envisioned communes with workers where all the resources was to be fairly divided.

The Workers started to organize here in the US, and in Europe against the unhealthy and hard back breaking work, and demand human conditions, in their life. The socialist movement had some headwind here in the US, but the US Work organizations, managed to distinct between Socialism, and Workers Organizations. In Europe, the movement was another thing, it was more aligned with Socialism. For the workers, that was the only way to set a barrier against the unhealthy exploration of workers that in facto was common practice, both here and in the US at the time.

Russia got their communist revolution, it quickly turned into a Dictator ship, but in many circles it was not looked upon a Dictatorship. In the west and in Europe during the depression era, it was a depression in Europe as well, and the people in Europe and the US got reports from this new "Communist state" , Russia, where daily progress seem to be had, industries and agricultural reconstructions, together with pictures of waiving smiling workers.

Being a socialist or socialist sympathizer was not an "ugly" thing both here or in Europe, and in those years, both the socialist and communist parties was pretty extensive even here in the US.

The turning point after WW2, in the US is when a person named McCarty, had a witch hunt. At that particular point, when the US had a hunt for diverse ideas, a hunt for Socialists, free thinkers or anything that in McCarty's mind was "anti American".

That was the exact point in time, when Communism and Socialism was associated with, non American, anti American, crime, non patriotism and low morale.

If you knew anyone that had a sister that was working in a nieces factory that have heard of a communist that worked there for years ago,, and didn't report it, you were fired, and your name published as a communist sympathizer.

McCarty scared everyone to the point of terror.

Europe never had an "opinion terrorist", and whether you were a Communist, Socialist , Liberal or Conservative, that was you choice, you may very well completely disagree, but it was a choice never the less.

So Europe had another way of looking at social issues, never had a political correctness tsar, and was pretty much free to pick and choose whatever way they saw fit to run their countries after WW2.

No one went for Communism, but they had an idea that they were able to pick and choose the best parts out of that and reject the rest, and developed each in their own country something that might be called Socialism, or more or less the "welfare state".

This went good up until the 50's, in the 60's it started to show some cracks, in the 70 there was a great debate about it, and more free trade, free choices of health care, schools and so on. The cost started to show some big ugly wounds in the 80's, and in most places, the "welfare state" is either disassembled, or partly renovated into a much smaller operation. During the 90's the disassembly were underway in most countries.

Today, the social network in the European countries and the social network in the US is not much different. You can point on some difference here or there but all in all it's very much alike.

In the European continent, there is freedom of speech, freedom of religion and all that, and have been for a very long time, except during the Nazi era.

Either it's free or it's not, there is not a degree of it.

It might be good to have this under your hat next time one stands up, proclaiming that US is the MOST free country on earth, WE saved the world, and the yellow teeth Socialist Europeans should show a bit more gratitude.

I say, know a liiiitle bit more before it's judgement day.

I've seen loud big bellied Americans in Hawaii shirts, and straw hat, walking around in Europe telling them how things "are". They don't know they're clowns, they know nothing about Europe, they don't even know anything at home.

Tim Bitts, not a kick in the mouth, just another view that might help you see something else.

-- October 15, 2006 8:14 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

It bothers me to hear people of good conscience run to the extreme by wishing to end the conflict with nukes. This will never happen. Since both Nagasaki and Heroshima the use of nuclear weapons have become taboo.

On the other side of the fence we have those who spout the cut and run method. I agre the U.S. has too much invested to cut and run. At this point, whether the next President is Newt Gingrich or Hiliary Clinton, cut and run is not an option.

Yes, we lost Vietnam only because we chose not to win. In the case of Iraq, George W. Bush realizes the consequences of us not winning. In fact, I believe the democrats have counted that cost.

Neither bomb them into oblivion or cut and run is the right approach regarding our investment in the Iraqi Dinar. Instead, the U.S. must somehow obtain the buy in of the GoI, its soldiers, and the Iraqi people. Progress will begin to equal stability, which will lead to the revaluation of the Dinar.

I must caution all of us, to continue to have patience. We want something to happen now. Both diplomacy and armed conflict take time. One poster (I forget who) said, buy your Dinars and put them away and forget them. This I think is wise advice.

Until the U.S. and its Iraqi partners can bring peace to the Iraq an RV may not be possible. Tomorrow is another day where we wait to see if something happens. Since it has been a little quiet regarding Dinar news do something different and take Roger's advice and buy some more Dinars.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 15, 2006 9:11 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Oh! Roger Oh! Roger!
Why does thou insist on unveiling the inner layers of piety's darkness secrets...Doesn't everyone know that piety is best carried under the bright light of missions over seas. After all are we not attempting to save those lost misforgotten souls, who without our interference would go straight to hell....and if those ungrateful, ignorant people refuse to accept our gracious savior ....well! then we will get uncle george to blow them to hell or heaven depending on which way they will fly...then Jesus can sort them out, the Lord knows we have done our part...
Please! On Please Roger!
Remove thy magic mirror from thy face for my piety is blinding ...and I am distressed with my inner thoughts...

-- October 15, 2006 9:20 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, thanks. Interesting points. It makes my Sunday more interesting.

I think my main point still stands. Europe was heavily subsidized after the war. Without American intervention, would the war have been won against the Nazis? Maybe, but probably by the Russians.

Yes, other countries were involved. I'm well aware of that. I'd bet I'm more aware of European history than most Europeans are. I don't chew gum, unless I feel like it, and I have read plenty of books. What you wrote about who did what in the Second World War agrees with what I have also read, so I don't think we have any disagreement at all.

My own country, Canada, had the third largest navy in the world directly after the Second World War. Not many people know that.

I commented mostly on American involvement because most people reading this blog are probably American. I know that gives the impression that I think the Americans fought the war alone, but that's a false impression. The war was much more complicated and involved many nations, as you indicated. And yes, American historians often give the wrong impression of the war. Very true.

I know a great deal about Europe, it's history, and have been there a number of times. I still say it is an effete and and misguided and weak culture. Too many liberals for my liking. Too many people there who think war is obsolete. I know that is a bit of a generalization, with lots of room for nuance and subtle distinction, among different countries, but in the main I still think it is true.

When a country or set of countries is protected by someone, for a long time, it makes them go soft in some ways. I think a basic constant of human existance is aggression. Person against person. Group against group. Nation against nation. Religion against religion. It has always been that way, and likely always will be. When the Americans insulated Europe from that by taking over their protection, it insulated Europeans from reality for a long time. I think the Muslims in Europe are just about ready to give them a wake up call, but that's another story.

As far as the social systems being the same, I doubt it. Many European countries have traditionally have unemployment rates around 10%. The American rate has usually been much lower. This was caused by excessive government regulation in Europe, for example it has always been much harder to start a business in Europe, than America, and the fact that European governments were willing to give out generous social assistance to the unemployed. They could afford to do this because the Americans paid their defence bill for half a century. Otherwise, the defence budget takes up a lot of money.

If that welfare state has been cut back, as you wrote, that could be true, but it is the way it was for a long time. I had relatives in Europe who used to brag about their long holidays. That too is part of the larger social benefits given by European countries for a long time. Also, America has private health insurance. It has no widespread public system. Europe has public, mixed with private, depending on the country. That seems a pretty big difference, since healthcare is a big part of any government's budget.

If your comments on the social safety network being cut back in Europe are true, it makes sense and fits in with what I have believed for a while: the socialist welfare state is unsustainable in the long run, and societies that invest in that social model will find it going down the drain in the long run.

If Europe was able to get away with overly generous social assistance, it was only due to American generosity, on defence spending Also, without the Marshall Plan, it would have taken Europe an extra ten years to get going after the war, so I do think they should be grateful. If I were American, I wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for a thank-you note.

Some are, though, to be fair. When I was in Holland, and people found out I was Canadian, and relatives of mine had fought in the war, they were very warm. They told me about the great role Canadians had played in the liberation of Holland when I visited Anne Franke House in downtown Amsterdam.

Yes, I think Europeans should show a little more gratitude. But more than that, their public officials should take a strong stance of, "Thanks for the help, Yanks. We will now take charge fully for our own defence." I don't see this. I see large "peace" movements in Europe, and populations unwilling to invest in armies to defend themselves. I see hundreds of thousands of bodies piling up in the Baltic peninsula last decade, while Europe's "leaders" sit with their thumbs in body cavities in the regions of their lower limbs, and they don't do anything about it. I see mass cultural foolishness.

As to your comments, that "No one went for communism", that's not exactly true. I recall a lot of communists elected in Europe and France. We even had a communist elected to city council in my home city, of Winnepeg, Manitoba. It seems to me very much it was a matter of being up in the air, as to which way history was going at one point. Would the communists win? Would capitalism and democracy? It was unclear for a long time which was the better and stronger idea. As always people were trying to figure out, as Osama bin Laden once put it, who was the strong horse, who was the weak horse? Many Europeans were hedging their bets, not sure who to cheer for, for a long time. The leading intellectuals of Europe were largely very left wing, and many were communist sympathizers. I had a Political Science prof I had a conversation with once. He gave me a good grade. He confirmed to me my suspicion that a lot of people who taught in universities were very left wing, and often communist sympathizers. He said he was a communist. This was thirty years ago, right here in Canada. I have seen a number of surveys that say that even today, in the United States, around 70% of people who teach at university consider themselves to be left wing. They are not communist, but often their opinions were fairly accomadating to communism. So my point again is there was a big contest, historically between communism and democracy. Left wing liberals are very close, philosophically to communists, often apologizing for them. It was a close contest as to whether America would win the Cold War, or the Russians would. So your comment, "no one went for communism" is not quite accurate.

If it had been left up to the leaders of Western Europe, to fend off the communists, without American help, in my opinion the communists would have won easily.

The same sort of contest is going on in the world again. That's what this blog is about. That's what our investments are all about. On one side are the Islamic fundementalist theocrats, offering a coherent worldview to one billion Muslims, aided and abetted by weak minded liberals in the West. On the other side, the "coalition of the willing." Who will win? Who is the strong horse? Who is the weak horse? Don't know. As the coach said, "That's why you play the game. To find out who's better." All I know is, I've bet my 9 million dinar it's not the fundementalists. And you also have placed your bet as to who you think will win. So I guess we must agree on that.

I am well aware of the '50s and the McCarthy era, and it's excesses, and witch hunts. I would be very much against that sort of paranoia, and restrictions against freedom of speech. I'm in favour of the freedom, even to offend, in speech.

It is always wise to bear in mind, when talking about excesses of the Cold war, to realize you should be making a comparison. Making comparisons, just what the other side was like, is important, in order to make a balanced comment. Pick up a copy of Guiness Book of World Records next time you are at the library. Look under mass genocides. The people the Americans have been leading the fight against this past century, the Nazi and the Communists, win gold, silver and bronze, with Communist China getting the Gold, The Communist Russians the Silver, and the Bronze to the Nazis, if the Olympics gave out medals for mass genocides. American excesses during the last century were tiny compared to the horrors of Nazism and Communism. The brutality of communism was downplayed for decades by left wing academics. Thus your comments about smiling workers and daily progress reports from Russia for a long time. Vladimir Lenin knew about these left-wing sympathizers in the West, and referred to them in his memoirs as, "useful idiots". I have known and talked to Holocost survivors, and survivors of Russian gulags, so I'm not as easily fooled. I agree with President Reagan. With his usual moral clarity, he called the Soviet Union, "The Evil Empire".

He was right.

Socialists and liberals really were offended by that bit of truth.

Your comments on the history of capitalism in the U.S. an Europe were interesting. I have heard similar arguements before. I think you are spot on in your comments on the history of capitalism and the exploitation of workers, which led to worker action to correct abuses, and improve living standards.

But the underlying important point you are making, without saying it, is that capitalism WORKS!

For, if capitalism could not produce the goods and service for a good standard of living to workers, it wouldn't have anything to give the workers when they demanded more.

Yes, it might take a while. Yes, there can be many hideous abuses on the road to a good life for people. But it is the only system of economic organization that has ever been constructed, that actually works. Communism doesn't.

Communism, on the other hand, couldn't deliver much to anyone. That's why it is a failure.

The communists can bleed their hearts out all they want, for the workers, and jabber on about fairness, but if the system they promote doesn't work, and it didn't, their arguments and sympathy for the workers are all for nothing. Just hot air.

The only sympathy worth anything for most people is a good paychecque and a good standard of living.

Capitalism delivers more of that to more people than any other system yet devised. So, yes capitalism was heartless at first. You are correct. But more important than whether it is heartless, it WORKS!

Communism, whatever it's good intentions, doesn't actually work well at all.

That's what I dislike about left wing people, and I'm not suggesting you are one. The central political question of the last century was: Is communism or socialism or capitalism a better system? Many left wing people got the answer wrong.

Now, many of these same left-wing idiots are objecting to the War on Terror. They were wrong on communism and now they are wrong on Islamo-fascism. The war against Islamofacscism will be the defining struggle of this century. Liberals wasted no time, getting on the wrong side.

I generally agree with your comments that Americans generally don't know that much about history. I don't really think that matters all that much.

I think most of history is set by elites anyway. The common man is usually "cannon fodder anyway", as Karl Marx put it. And I think a lot of the elites in Europe are either daft or corrupt, and many of them were on the wrong side of history this past century.

Exhibit A: Communism, which at one time ruled half of Europe, and much of the world. One of the stupidest set of ideas yet set to paper. I have read the Communist Manifesto, at age 13 for the first time, and I wondered at the time how anyone could believe such naive idiocy. Well, apparantly a lot of people did, including many "educated" people.

Anyway, the important thing is, we Dinaraholics are on the right side of history, our side will win, the dinar will rise dramatically in value, and I will be rich! Yahoo!

I'm already thinking about where I want to live once I cash in. Right now, based on past travels, I'm thinking Hawaii (The Big Island) or the Mayan Peninsula in the Yucatan, or Mombassa.

Anyway thanks for the interesting points you made. Well put.

You have a flair for words and a natural exuberance that keeps this blog going. Well done.

GO DINAR1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What nationality are you?

-- October 15, 2006 11:16 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Bonus Round: Roger, one last comment on this topic, of whether Europe is becoming effete. I found an interesting thing item in the news:

From Western Report Magazine: "In Europe the simple act of urinating is in the process of being feminized. Stehpinkeln--standing while urinating--is disapproved of in Germany, to the point where toilets can now be fitted with voice alarms triggered when the seat is raised."

"Hey, stand-peeing is not allowed here and will be punished with fines, so if you don't want any trouble, you'd best sit down" orders the toilet ghost in a voice that imitates former chancellor Gerhard Schoder.

"The notion of German government leaders commanding you in the privacy of your own home to urinate like a woman seems almost too poignant an image of the peculiarily European blend of state-enforced docility."

Enough said.

-- October 15, 2006 11:45 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl, your last post was absolutely hilarious.

-- October 15, 2006 11:57 PM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

TO ROGER: My friends that were shot, are back in baghdad now, and with my access to the military, I asked how could this happen in broad daylight, before noon, in front of military scrutiny, and the stinking answer I got was "rules of engagement" so now everyone can see why these nuts in Baghdad are doing what they are doing with impunity

-- October 16, 2006 1:06 AM ∞

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William J Torres wrote:

I see this place has gotten more philosophical since the last time I was here.

-- October 16, 2006 1:56 AM ∞

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Willie wrote:

I see this place has gotten more philosophical since the last time I was here.

-- October 16, 2006 1:57 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Willie: This seems a place for just about anything, all is welcome and generally respectful, as long as it is somehow related to the main topic, the dinar. I've said my 2cents worth, for anyone who's interested. This site has many very interesting points of view, from a very diverse cast of characters. That's what makes it great reading. I enjoy reading the opinions of others, who have different knowledge and take on things than I do. Thank you all for your entertaining and interesting thoughts. Sure beats the hell out of Seinfeld re-runs!

-- October 16, 2006 2:46 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: You touched something and now multiple posts have hit on it. The Faluja model... Our castles were not in the dessert AROUND Faluja, they were IN Faluja. We have tried ot pull back outside the cities to allow the Iraqis, or at least give the impression that we are not occupiers. That strategy has not works. So keep that Faluja strategy in mind going forward. Oh yes, and there have been other cities where that strategy worked also. I believe th Stryker came ot us from Talil or one of those other cities that were pretty nasty when they first arrived. Their success is why they got extended.

Another point, Falujah was taken with joint US and Iraqi Army forces. The Iraqi Army forces are, as mentioned before, mixed with Sunni, Shia, and Kurd. The police who have been the downfall to a lot of our plans are now apparantly going to be forced to integrate also. With lessons learned from the past and with police success, we just may be able to create a Falujah type victory in Baghdad. Could... When you look at the numbers that would be involed in such an offensive. That said, we have already heralded the grand offensive in Baghdad and it sputtered so don't expect any more big announces when the next wave takes flight.

Oh yes, and as Okie said, normal troop rotations on the 1st Cav. 4ID has pulled out and 1st Cav has set up shop. They are returning for their second rotation and have the advantage of past experience plus learning from others that have been through since. The players are coming into place so this could get rather exciting pretty quickly. I hope anyway.

-- October 16, 2006 3:01 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts......

Really enjoyed your comments about World War 2 and the contributions made by the North Americans....we did make a difference!!

The thing that's really etched in my brain about our neighbors to the North is related to Iran during the overthrow of the Shah. I had a lot of oil patch buddies working there and the American Embassy was stalling on getting them out of the country,but when they requested help from the Canadian Embassy, the response was quick and effective. The Canadians got all of them out of harms way and that action is well appreciated by a lot of Americans.

-- October 16, 2006 10:29 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Turtle.....

Spot on about Baghdad....the next wave of forces retaking that city won't be hampered by the restraint from Maliki.

I really believe they need to give Sadr a quick trial and hang him in public for the American blood on his hands.

-- October 16, 2006 11:33 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Meat, light and water become luxuries October 15, 2006 - Kawkab Sami wakes up at 5 o’clock every morning to clean her house and feed her four children breakfast before getting them off to school. As a resident of Baghdad, the 35-year-old widow says she lives in constant fear of a bomb killing her children and herself at any moment.
Her husband was killed by US troops in the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. Her children are between the ages of 4 and 10.
With only a few hours of power a day at home, no clean water, and broken sewer pipes in the road outside, Sami cries every night, worried about how long she will be able to take care of her family and keep them healthy.
“I cannot afford a generator and special filter for the water because my salary is hardly enough for the main needs of my children,” said Sami who, as a primary school teacher, earns US $200 a month.
“People tell me that I have to boil the tap water before I drink it, but I will need to use gas to do that and it is so expensive. The only thing I can do is pray my children do not get sick from it,” she added.
Sami’s basic costs add up quickly. She pays US $80 a month to rent a small house in a suburb of the capital; $30 a month for milk for the children and US $16 a month on cooking gas. That leaves her with less than $3 a day to feed, clothe and buy other necessities for herself and her children.
“Meat is like gold in Iraq,” Sami said, adding that good meat costs US $7 per kilo. “Because I cannot afford that, most of the time we have eggs, which are cheaper. Two or three times a month I buy meat for us, which is seen by my children as a gift.” Fortunately, Sami’s neighbours help her with some food from time to time.
Millions suffering
Her family is typical of millions of Iraqis who are suffering from a lack of basic needs because of an increasingly dire security situation.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki launched a 24-point national reconciliation plan on 25 June aimed at stemming the violence in the country and addressing the needs of the population.
One of the objectives of the plan is to accelerate reconstruction and create jobs, thereby boosting the economy. Nearly 60 percent of Iraqis are unemployed, according to NGOs, a figure confirmed by the Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs.
Ensuring people can work and have access to basic needs are seen by NGOs as essential elements to stemming the tide of violence in Iraq.
“The lack of essential needs has provoked revolt from the population, and without controls it generates more violence and lack of support to the parliament which is running the country,” said Nissirin Hummam, public officer manager of the Bagdhad-based Iraq Aid Association.
“If the Iraq government focuses at least on power, water and sanitation, for sure Iraqis will feel more comfortable, and this can change the picture in Iraq. Locals are not asking too much but just what any human being would need; but they do not have it, while knowing that they live in one of the richest countries [in terms of natural resources] in this world,” she added.
Power, clean water and sewage treatment are the most pressing needs for Iraqis.
“Electricity in Iraq is going from bad to worse, and every month we have fewer hours of power,” said Salahdinne Alawi, 52, a shopkeeper in Baghdad. “And in addition, the water: before 2003 it was clean and healthy, but today it is not recommended for drinking, making the lives of ordinary Iraqis more difficult instead of improving them.”
Slow reconstruction
Government officials acknowledge that reconstruction is moving slowly due to corruption and a lack of security.
In the early days of the US-led occupation of Iraq in 2003, US and Iraqi officials announced nearly 6,000 projects to repair and upgrade the country’s infrastructure, said Ibrahim Ahmed, media officer in the Ministry of Reconstruction and Development.
“But only 35 percent of them have been finished, and the main reason is the lack of funds and the increase in violence against employees,” Ahmed said.
“To fix the infrastructure of the country you do not need only to rebuild destroyed buildings but generate with it new jobs. This will improve the living conditions of thousands of Iraqis and in meantime allow the population to have the choice of working for a salary [instead of] taking part in terrorism,” he added.
Ahmed pointed out that from the initial 475 electricity projects proposed for reconstruction, only 350 are expected to be completed by mid-2007 because a large amount of money has been diverted to security issues, he said.
Lack of money is also greatly impacting the quality of education and health services in Iraq.
In addition, 30 percent inflation over the past year makes it increasingly difficult for families to afford food. At least 70 percent of the population depends on food rations - nearly double the percentage of dependency during former president Saddam Hussein’s time, according to government officials and NGOs.
“Iraqis have never required food rations as they do now. Their situation is critical, and poverty has increased along with unemployment,” said Ibrahim Abdel Rahman, spokesperson for Peace and Charity for Iraqis, a Baghdad-based NGO.
“If urgent action is not taken soon, Iraq will become a huge land of poor people navigating over a river of oil,” he added.

Rob N's comments: (How can we begin to speak about an RV until the Iraqi people have all the basic services human dignity demands?)

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 16, 2006 2:25 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Iran Exports $575m Worth of Goods to Iraq October 14, 2006 - Iran has exported $ 575 million worth of goods and products to its western neighbor, Iraq, during the last 6 months
Deputy director of Iran's Trade Development Organization Ali Houshmandi Maneshi said Iran is always prepared to boost the volume of its trade exchanges and export of technical and engineering services to Iraq.
He also called on the different Iranian governmental and private sectors, institutions and associations involved in the export of goods and technical-engineering services to promote the volume of their exports through constant exchange of views with the Islamic Republic's trade attachés in various countries, including Iraq.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 16, 2006 2:26 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

A crisis in the hotels sector October 15, 2006 - A belief prevails in the hotels sector in Baghdad and the provinces of Karbala and Najaf, which has a religious specialty, that the security chaos has led to a considerable decline in the performance of the sector and the erosion of its infrastructure, that could only recover with significant financial support.
In Baghdad alone, the sector almost stands at the edge of zero in the proportion of lodgers, prompting dozens of hotels to close down to avoid further losses. The rest of them, compelled by certain circumstances and reasons continued to open their doors in spite of the enormity of the loss.
Hammoud Al-Yaaqubi, Head of Tourism Institution, said that his office has estimated the damage inflicted on "Ishtar" Hotel alone, due to the explosion of a car bomb near it, by $ 1.250 million.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 16, 2006 2:28 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

A 70% rate of inflation October 15, 2006 - The Iraqi Under Secretary of Finance, Kamal Al-Basri, said that the high inflation rates in Iraq are" frightening", calling on the State to link production to spending.
He called on the government, in a symposium held by the Iraqi Center for Economic Reform about" the phenomenon of inflation and the role of financial and economic policies", to take on responsibility of dealing with the inflation rates which hit 70%, because of the abundance of cash liquidity and the lack of goods and services. He attributed the abundance of cash to the increase in salaries and wages by 90% from what it was last year, while the goods and services in the market are becoming less for different reasons, including the security status which disturbed the markets. He pointed out that the individuals' abundance of cash caused a rise in prices. A number of Iraqi officials spoke at the symposium and stressed the importance of moving on with the process of comprehensive economic reform. They considered inflation is the reason why Iraqi economy is weak and faltering.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 16, 2006 2:30 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq Company for Bank Guarantees aims for late October launch October 11, 2006 - The Iraq Company for Bank Guarantees (ICBG) is gearing itself for a late October launch. Preparatory work is well underway at the ICBG to ensure a business commencement date at the end of October.
Shareholder and follow on ICBG Board meetings have been held in August and September. During September and October, ICBG management will undertake a structured marketing effort with all commercial banks and finalize guarantee applications with those that will be ready to approach the company on its scheduled launch date.
Guarantee applications for two SME loans are expected in September for management review. Executive, Risk Management, Audit and Grants oversight committees will be meeting shortly to take stock of all preopening work underway. Committee reports will be presented at the next ICBG Board meeting in early October. At this meeting a formal opening date for the institution should be set for announcement.
Through a technical assistance and grants program developed with the ICBG, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) is endeavoring to foster among the Iraqi private banks an SME lending capacity, a shift from an asset-based to a cash-flow-based lending methodology, and development of healthy corporate governance and loan practices.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 16, 2006 2:32 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

(Carl, Carl, Carl), Both the sun and the death is a hard one to look straight into, Ikarus did both, I dont have a clue what all that means, but it sounds very deep anyway.

If Uncle Sam wants to blow things to heaven or hell , at least I'm absoluted. If I like what I see, I agree, it it's too carnivourus, then at least I have the luxury to agree in silence. Our Lords sorting station might be a bit busy for a while but, hey, who's counting.

If the grave seems too deep, well, have a schnaps and it's awaiting depth wont bother.

The morbid fate is in the end, if we wish the deep end, for someone else, it doesnt matter, we'll all go there anyway, and when everything was said and done, only the living deeds is what count.

The tales of the living, I dont know of any other tales.

Panhandler,

Very good, they are back and in breathing condition. Both are back, thats even better, I had an idea that the one that got airlifted was in very bad shape, but it seems like both pulled through and are doing well.

'Rules of engagement" yes, say no more, I can guarantee you that the frustration over the inability to handle the current situation is not only in your quarters.

As you can see the postings, the backbuner issue is the Dinars, the front burner is the security situation. Common sense, have gone out the window long ago, since two weeks back I have heard, that strong words have been said from the US administration to the Iraqi government, I have read all kinds of things,reorganisations and such, but in reality, nothing significant have changed.

A couple of ill equipped thugs are running around owning Baghdad, US armed forces in the number over 100.000 is present in the country, Iraqi forces are there, and nothing.

I'm absolute convinced that the military forces are completely able to handle it, but no orders are given.

It's so frustrating to see a livable building burn down, a firebrigade sitting on the sideline, and to the commanders, you have to E X P L A I N slowly to them, talking slowly while you nod your head, what a fire is, what it does to the house, that is just burning, point your finger to the firebrigade, and again E X P L A I N to the boss, what they can do, if you are allowed to use them.

Enough said, Panhandler, its clear, I see it, you see it, we all see it, and the only reason there is nothing going on is because an IDIOT, says, yes, but....

As far as I'm concerned, there is no other reason for this to go on.

An IDIOT is on the line, posing as an authority somewhere, saying NO.

I dont care if this "whoever it is" IS ON OUR LINES, OR THEIR LINES, FACT IS, HE IS STOPPING THE CLEANUP FROM TAKING PLACE.

Your friends didn't have to be shot.

Turtle,

Thanks for your input, well, I have a lot to say, but I think I said it best with the above posting. Yes, a Faluja style cleanup is the only remaining way, yes you are right, we were IN Faluja, I was in my posting refering more to the current outside fortification. Yes, also during that offensive, the Iraqi forces were very GungHo, from what I've read lately though, some split have taken place since that time, and getting Iraqis to go to Baghdad is a bit hard, I've read.

I must say though, that I'm a little bit weak on the knowledge on the Iraqis themselves, it's depending on what day of the week you are reading the news, one day, they are all GungHo, ready to go, next day, they have all kinds of problem.

If you can say anything on that subject would be appreciated, that is, if you are in a position to know anything significant about it. From what I can understand, your take is that the military is getting into position now, well, hope this is it. The military have moved around the whole time, this might be it, then again, this might not be it, just please, please (we're very hungry for info) keep us informed.

RobN,

Good postings, can see you're the only one holding us in line with financial and economical news.

Can see that your postings again confirms that the Dinar is hopelessly undervalued.

This is very simple economic doctrine.

When a currency is undervalued. The currency is not buying anything from the outside world, goods will become scarce, and prices will go up, causing inflation. There will be an abundance of currency, and a scarcity of goods.

Your posting describes almost to the line that exact phenomenon.

-- October 16, 2006 7:55 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I understand the reason for our troops to be in Iraq for years to come but I don't understand the strong support for Maliki.

Must be a big part of the picture we can't see or hear!

==================================================================================
Bush pledges to keep U.S. troops in Iraq By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush personally assured Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki Monday that he has no plans to pull troops out and told him to ignore rumors the United States intended to enforce a deadline for Baghdad to rein in sectarian violence.

The president's pledge came in a 15-minute morning phone call with al-Maliki, who told Bush he was concerned because he had been hearing that the United States was giving him a two-month timeline to operate on his own.

"He (al-Maliki) said that rumors sometimes can undercut confidence in the government and also its ability to work effectively in fighting terror," said Bush spokesman Tony Snow. "And the president said, `Don't worry, you still have our full support.' "

Snow said he wasn't clear where the rumors were coming from, although there is growing frustration in Congress and across the country about Iraq. Snow said that in his talk with al-Maliki, Bush did not express any sense of urgency. Casualties have been increasing amid almost daily violence that has eroded support for the war in the United States.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061016/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_13

-- October 16, 2006 8:29 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Thanks for the posting, I can see you have a little bit clue about a few things. I must say though, I completely and fully agree with you about Communism, and Socialism.

It's a system that doesn't permit private ownership.

All resources are suppose to be "fairly" divided, and everybody is suppose to be living happily thereafter.

It's a system derived from someone that never have produced anything, he have never won anything, and standing on the top position being Nbr 1, and receive the Gold medal is unfair, to those that didn't have a chance to train the way he did.

Having said that, Europe, yes, you seem to have more insight than most, gratulations, you are in the minority.

No, still many European nations are more or less in the bounds of the "welfare state" , some are there more, some less, but all in all the heydays of that system has come and gone.

There are of course exceptions, Norway, a very rich nation because of their oil, have no national debt, a big surplus in oil income, and are splurging on the "welfare system". Then again, if you are a Kuwaiti, you get a reversed tax from the state just by being a Kuwaiti, so this has really nothing to do with Socialism rather if the nation can afford it. In general, they can't. I doubt Socialism have any footing in Kuwait.

Europeans never went for Communism, yes there was a couple of selected governments, in the past, where the Communists, had the government, but the society as a whole, never in any (west)European country went Communistic, they're were voted off, simple as that. A country completely converted to Communism, could never have in place a mechanism that would allow the regime to be removed, any votes would have to be within the Communist system.

So Europe never went into developing Communistic states. I stay on that statement, it didn't happen.

You seem to be very versed in WW2 history, very well done, the WW2 history learned here, is centered very much on the US effort during the war. Fully understandable, as the personal tales are plentiful in each country participating.

However the US history slant is sometimes a bit abrasive.

-"When we, after the war, occupied Germany, we...."

Excuse me, Germany was occupied in FOUR different slices, One US, ONE Russian, ONE French, ONE British sector. The US forces held a QUARTER of the loot. East Germany, Russian, North British, Center US, and south French.

Yes, the US, and Canada, the only continent not directly involved in the conflict, had all the factories, and institutions intact, a luxury only Spain, Sweden, Portugal and Switzerland had in Europe after the war.

The rest was pretty much in tatters to a higher or lesser degree. The Marshall plan did a lot to help, but it seems to take a very long time to recover after a blow like that. Even now , still today, there is a difference in standards comparing the Southern and Northern states in the US, long long after the Civil war.

I honestly don't believe Europe have recovered still to this day from that devastating war, add on to it, the second half of Europe, being under Soviet rule for another 50 years recently unearthed from a long endless depression.

If Europe is weak, yes they are, they're not there yet.

European military, a weak and boneless, force, perhaps it's for the better.

The unity we have here doesn't exist over there, the language, and culture in Nevada and Ohio is almost identical, we can have a sense of belonging, waive a flag, and feel like being ONE with each other.

If this is good or bad, or a sign of weakness, or whatever, I don't know, but a French flag in Germany is accepted only when they have a Soccer tournament.

The loud and ignorant American I saw ( I did really see him) walking around telling how things are, is in the Europeans eyes the stereotype, about as much as Americans have an idea that Europeans have all yellow teeth (by the way, I never seen as bad teeth as in the US, it's terrible, guess the free dental care in Europe does something good).

The American culture is very impregnated over there, I have been on Drag races, watching Don Garlits rip a high 5 on the quarter in Mantorp, Europe.

I had an old girlfriend over here for a couple of months ago, she's into square dance, and are competing internationally. They had Dolly Partons sister invited to one of the events , they seem to have a ball doing the Country and Western. They went to Nashville and their team actually won the competition.

All in the old Europe.

There is no difference there and here, Rap is as much a menace in both places.

I really don't think there is so much, us n them about it, I mean, who's your daddy?

-- October 16, 2006 10:06 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Hey I just got to toss in my bonusround too.
If sitting and peeing is law in Germany, the caracters of the Europeans are judged by a stupid law, well, caracters of Americans can also be judged in very similar ways. I'm thinking of, (and it's still in the books, you have to call in to City Hall in Chicago, and pre warn the city if you intend to bring in an automobile inside the city limits.

If you are in Wisconsin, don't think of toosing a dwarf, it's forbidden.

In a South Carolina town you can't spank your wife at home. If you have to do it, you have to bring her to the County Court House first Monday in the month, and legally spank her between 1 and 3 PM.

-- October 16, 2006 10:23 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Correction, Australia per definition is a continent also, Some harbors were bombed by the Japanese, but as a whole, this continent was mostly untouched.

-- October 17, 2006 12:32 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, thanks for that. Well said.

When I say Europe is weak, I was thinking of the last elections in Spain. You remember, there was some terrorism before the election. Then there was the issue of Spain's involvement in the War on Terror. After the terrorism, the Spanish people decided to throw out their leader, in favour of someone who would remove Spain from this effort.

Before the election, the terrorists were signalling to Spain that there would be a price to be paid for cooperating with the Americans on the War on Terror. The Spanish decided to give in to the terrorists, or at least elect leaders who would do something that would keep the terrorists happy, namely remove Spain from the effort to defeat terrorism.

Think about that. An entire nation in Europe, a modern industrial state, Spain, of what, 30 million?, was cowered into submission by a small group of bearded men living in a secluded mountain cave in Afghanistan. How pathetic is that? How effete is that?

And what sort of men are in the Taliban? I read today that under the Taliban, who were friends of Al Queda, women could be jailed for laughing in public. That's right, laughing.

Then there was the fiasco over the Danish cartoons, once again proving Muslims, like the Germans, don't have much of a sense of humour. (The words "funny" and "German" are the rarest sentences in the English language). Now why do you suppose the Muslim minority in Europe figures it can hold violent demonstrations in Europe? Do you think they would try the same thing in El Paso, Texas? Not likely, unless they want a quick hanging from some good ole boys. Europe is weak.

And the car buring in Paris last summer? Same thing. The Muslim punks know Europeans have no stomach for a fight. Expect it to be an annual event from now on. The Annual Paris Car-B-Que. Bring hot dogs and buns and ketchup.

What is the fastest growing religion in Europe? Islam, by far. It is that way because at this point in their history, Europeans have more or less given up on Christianity. More people go to Mosque in Britain than Christian Churches. My point is, Europeans don't believe in much, beyond a pint of Guiness, a quick piece of tail, and a nice holiday in the French Riviera. Not much to build a country on, although it sounds like fun.

Then there is the whole anti-war movement in Europe, which is huge. War is stopped by strength, not weakness in my opinion. The pees movement believes if you just give up weapons, peace will come. That's just weak nonsense.

Then there were all the public calling for the execution of the Pope, who made some comments about Islam. Why do you think Imams are confident they can call for death threats against the Pope? They know Europe is ready to be Mohammed's bitch.

Expect more of all of the above the rest of your life in Europe.

European men squatting to pee like women is just another sign of a culture that has decided to neuter itself.

And the "armies" of Europe? I've seen more fight in a golden retriever. I saw a documentary once on the Italian Military. It was called The Antique Road Show. If you can fight your way out of a wet paper bag, they make you captain. I heard the Danish Army is so pathetic that Denmark has made Beetle Bailey their top general.

Rap music in Europe, you say? Boy, if that isn't a sign of the End Times, I don't know what is. I saw a rap video once where the singer swiped his credit card on his "ho's ass". I think he had a "Booty Express Card" or something. Don't leave your crib without it! My last hope for Europe was they were immune to the worst of American music, but I guess not.

Oh, well, The End is Near. I hear the hoofs of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, with rap music in the background, and Dolly Parton on vocals. How will I deal with it? I'll just cash in my dinars some time, when my ship comes in, sit on the beach, and hope my wife and girlfriend will just get along.

-- October 17, 2006 1:00 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

I'm sitting here and laughing about your ranting of the boneless Europeans, well ok I'm not going to continue this thread, as it seems to be a very emotional thing in your universe, We can have it your way.

The Horror of another world.

I can point on exactly the same weaknesses here, when it comes to terrorism, and perhaps even worse weaknesses, so when it comes to being flatfooted, no need to go to Europe. No need to blame them for something that 75% of the US population is agreeing with. From what I read, the support for the war in Iraq is at an all time low. The Spaniards chicken out, well, the MSM have been feeding us garbage long enough now and it seems like the general public is buying into it, wholesale. We,re on the verge of chicken out, at least when it comes to the polls, so on the point of being weak on terrorism......

To find that sort of thing, it's really not that long of a walk after all. No need to point on Europe, just distribute a few mirrors.

As you seem to have an IQ above room temperature, can you give your take on this.

As far as I have researched, the Iraq compact, seems to be a kind of a Marshall plan for Iraq, I can't really put it in different perspective, there is a 5 year support mechanism involved here, but didn't really get if this is meant from now, or from a date earlier. It's a help program to basically establish Iraq as a full fledge member in all corner of the globe. To get iraq to be a house clean member. You know, so you don't have to spread a magazine paper on the seat before the Iraqi delegates sit down in the meeting.

The currency in Iraq as far as I know 14 of them, of wich the 1, 5 10 and 20 Dinar bill is not in current circulation, held for future revaluation I suppose. I'm not sure if they have released the 50 Dinar bill yet, may need an up on that.

As you seem to be well versed on the Marshall plan , the US is not fighting Communism here, but is just plainly setting up Iraq more or less as a democratic country in the middle of suicide bombers.

The help of setting up Iraq with this Iraq compact, doesnt seem to be too much in line with the Marshall plan other than money flowing into Iraq for the help.

As Carl points out, there is always a purpose behind every human action. The Marshall plan was not intended to be just a handout , where the Europeans were suppose to stand in line afterwards and be thankful to Americans. The purpose was to combat Communism, and an effort was even made to implement the plan in the easter European countries in an effort to sway them from getting away from Communism, unfortunately, Stalin was in charge at the time, and it was very easy to deliver a straight NO, on behalf of the countries he occupied.

So here we have Iraq, and a suicidal population, a situation on the ground that is not done anything about, a compact with a lot of help, from US and a lot of participating countries.

I can see some similarities with the Marshall plan(if we're looking at it from a pure handout plan) but not much. The Saddam Dinar was exchanged with the New Dinar, (Bremer Dinar, if you wish) , The Germans swapped their Reich Mark to Deutch Mark I believe it was 1946 or 47. There was a donation to Germans of a certain ammount, around the time of the swap, I believe they each recieved 40 Deuch Mark or so. This Iraqi regime have promised a currency give away as well, heard that 10.000 Dinars was the figure.

The Deutchmark revaluesd, and have been riding on it's Mercedes and BMW sales ever since,(Until they went with the Euro) no we are hoping that the Dinar will reavlue and ride on it's oil sale also here.

I say, historically, there have always been a very similar pattern after a war, the currency is in shatter, the rebuild is always in coming, sometimes slow sometimes fast, sometimes, boosted by an outside nation, but it is always in coming. The currency have either been replaced, with a new one, or the old one stayed, but never the less, it has always been at the bottom just after the war, and rebounded some time after a war.

However, the rebuild have always depended on a somewhat stable aftermath.

There was opposition groups in Germany after the war, as well as lot of outlaws, after the Civil War, but nothing really in volume and magnitude as we see it right now in Iraq.

For a while I was pretty sure that this is a very local, and not too big of thing to worry about, but as this thing has progressed day after day, unchecked, the thugs are in control of Baghdad.

Would you implement a Marshall plan before the war was over.

Imagine declaring a victory over the Germans, and the Nazis still in complete control over Berlin.

(Historically it didnt happen so, I know, the russians took Berlin), but Imagine if Patton had his army all around Berlin, and the Nazis was in there, what would he have done. Negotiate with the diffeerent Nazi fractions? Hell no, he would go straight in and crush them, after that he would line them up and with the tanks crush the bones, just to make sure no one was breathing.

Tim, will any discussion about Marshall plan, Iraqi compact, foreign help, revaluation or anything along that line have any relevance as long as an enemy force with a completely different agenda is ruling the land?

-- October 17, 2006 2:19 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

If there is a plan that we dont know of, that is more important, and there is something we are kept in the dark about, that will outweight the daiy killings of fifty/ hundreds of Iraqis, everyday, that means that that plan have to be so important and valuable that the value would be clearly visible for rational men to see.

-- October 17, 2006 2:55 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, Glad you had a laugh. So did I when I wrote it. So it worked! I'm only half serious in a lot of what I said about Europe. I was trying to provoke a reaction with a bit of hyperbole. That's just my warped sense of humour. Glad it worked.

I'm glad it worked. I was just having a bit of fun. No need to wander further down this thread. Thanks.

Yes, I think you need order in Iraq first. I do believe the Dinar will earn me a lot of money.

One bit of good news I think is that the parliament of Iraq voted a couple of weeks ago, that it was within the rights outlined within the Iraqi Constitution, that various Iraqi provinces had the right to form regions. Then they put in an 18 month restriction. This processess can't start for 18 months. Obviously, the Iraqis are sorting out their mess. I take this to mean that the Shiite leaders are telling the Sunnis,

"Hey, you have 18 months to get on board the new Iraq. After that, the Shiites can start to become much more self-governing, by banding into regions. This is a step toward forming our own country. If that happens, we will take all the oil and water with us. Shiites live in territory where most of the wealth is. You will be left with no oil, no water and no money, and no one to help you. You are vastly outnumbered. Sunnis are only 15% of the population. We are being armed by the Americans. If there is a large scale civil war, you will lose badly, in every way. You are on notice. You have 18 months to get on board"

I hope things turn out politically, so the security situation can improve, the economy can improve, and the dinar improve. In the realpolitik of Iraq, I think this is a significant event. I don't think the future of Iraq will generally be settled by America at this point. It will be sorted out by the Iraqis themselves. America is a willing and helpful partner, but I think the main problem has to do with religious rivalry and competition for resources, and I think the Iraqis will have to sort that out themselves. That's why "victory" is hard to achieve. You can't solve religious fanaticism and rivalry overnight. America can beat any army in a hurry, but they can't solve all the problems of other cultures and religions. The mainstream media generally is taking the line that the war is going badly and it is the American's fault. I don't buy it. The problems and the responsibility for sorting them out are up to the Iraqis at this point. The only thing the Americans can do at this point is support their government and pressure them to speed things along. The process of rebuilding Iraq will take a long time and that long struggle too will be mostly up to the Iraqis, with the Americans fading to a helping position. This new 18 month clock is a sign they are serious about pressuring the Sunnis to get on board. Good sign.

I can't see the Americans staying much beyond Bush's presidency because of political pressure. Also, I have read internal Iraqi polls that say most of the population don't trust the Americans. I think the Americans are well intentioned, and would be willing to give Iraq enormous and lasting help in any long term occupation, but I don't think it will turn out that way. America will have to support the Iraqi government indirectly, when they leave.

President Bush was right all along. All along he has been saying the Iraqis will have to step up, and the Americans will have to step down. That is happening, albeit slowly.

There are many ways to win wars. Military is only one way. I just hope America is committed to helping Iraq, economically, and for the long run. It will take a while, but if America keeps helping Iraq, it will turn out ok in the long run, and the dinar will be worth more sooner, rather than later.

I still expect a few surprises in the next two years. As Yoggi Berra once said, "It ain't over till its over!"

-- October 17, 2006 11:35 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

A comment on the Art of War: It is not always necessary to defeat your enemy head on, in order to win. The Romans knew this, and that is part of the reason the Roman Empire lasted so long. The Romans would often sub-contract out their wars to other people. The American military obviously knows this. In Afghanistan, there were a bunch of tribes, all in competition with each other. America shrewdly played them off against each other. Several tribes did a lot of dirty fighting against other tribes, who were their enemies. Very smart strategy on America's part. America is obviously doing the same thing here. They are building up the Iraqi Army to the point they can fight their own battles. That takes a while. Then, the war in Iraq will become an internal matter, with the Iraqis sorting it out amongst themselves. America can watch on the sidelines while Arabs kill Arabs who are enemies of the United States. Very shrewd.

I trust the judgement of America's leaders to make the call, as to when and if to leave, and how much help to give them.

Right now, the best thing is to confront certain forces in Iraq. Down the road, this may change. If America completely disengages from the situation, cuts and runs, like the Democrats want the Yanks to do, it WILL turn into a permanent disaster. That would be a big mistake. If the America keeps doing what they are doing right now, and pulls back in the appropriate manner when the time is right, and lets Maliki sort it out, it'll turn out just fine.

As Kenny Rogers once sang, "You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run." Now is still the time to hold em.

-- October 17, 2006 3:01 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, a brief comment on a couple of other things. You said Iraq had a "suicidal population". I don't think you mean that. There is only a small percentage of Iraqis that are suicidal. Most Iraqis are not fanatics. Most are decent people that I would be happy to share a supper table with.

The reason the suicidal ones are able to have so much effect is that they are engaging in "Asymetrical Warfare". Europeans are used to regular warfare, that is one big modern, technologically advanced army, against another, with the winner taking all. That concept does not apply to this war at all. This is an entirely new kind of war, for Europeans and Americans.

The nutjobs can't fight the Americans on that level, of conventional armies, because they will lose very quickly. So, fuelled by religious zealotry, they cleverly conduct asymetrical, that is, very unconventional warfare. It's their only option.

Unconventional wars are very difficult to fight against, for a conventional army. The history of insurgencies around the world is that they take 6-10 years to defeat one.

The Americans are not very good at this sort of fight. That's why it is important to keep setting up the Iraqi Army to take over. The process of sorting out the mess in Iraq will take a long time, much longer than the Americans are willing to invest. So it is important for the Americans to have a long term partner in Iraq, who is running things, and will start to move Iraq in more positive ways. This could take a long time, maybe decades.

Conventional wars are very easy for the Americans to win. Reforming failed cultures, which is what the Americans are really trying to do, will take decades. The American public would have no patience for this sort of thing, and that's why it is important to support Maliki, or whoever is democratically elected. It's his country. Let him do all the hard work, in the long run.

Maliki will eventually be able to things the Americans could never do. For instance, if a bloodbath is needed to restore order, Maliki could get away with it without invoking world opinion against him. The Americans, if they did the same thing, would be demonized by the world's press, as brutal tyrants. That's just the practical political reality.

You commented on suicide bombers. That is an example of both asymetrical warfare, and a degenerate, malformed culture. America can't stop people from blowing themselves up. They can't reform degenerate cultures overnight. There are limits to American power. That's why it is important to support a government over there that will slowly reform their culture. Again, this will take a very long time.

I don't believe the dinar will take long to re-value, though. I expect that to take place within 2 years.

The Compact that is in place, to provide help to Iraq, for a number of years, is doing the right thing.

The problems of rebuilding in Germany after the war was a bit different than this situation. Islam has a fanatical streak, that is expressed by a small and very vicious minority. Christianity does not have that fanatical, vicious streak. If the Germans had been also Muslim, it would have been many times harder to rebuild Germany.

I don't think that will stop it from happening. It will just happen in a different way. The end result will be the same: The dinar will be worth a lot of money some day.

And all the philosophy and comment on this site are nice, but in the end, the only thing I truly give a sh*t about is that I think it will work, and I will make a lot of money.

-- October 17, 2006 3:42 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Tim:

Your comment to Roger; "The dinar will be worth a lot of money some day" speaks volumes concerning the difficulty pin-pointing a revaluation of the Iraqi Dinar.

This nations current leaders must lead. Since Malaki has been named he has not led. Instead, he has allowed the insurgent to gain a stronger foot-hold. I do not wish to be too critical of the IMF, but he has also allowed them to dictate fiscal policy. I am not saying, Malaki must mirror Putin. It is necessary though for the GoI to show some strength by putting down this insurgency and forging ahead with providing Iraqi's with the basic needs. This government must move forward to bring economic prosperity to Iraq.

President Bush's public support for Malaki in my opinion is a political move designed not to bring further destablization to Iraq. Regardless, we are stuck with Malaki for the time being.

Another area of concern is the 70% inflation plaguing Iraq. I am not convinced that an RV and price adjustment can quell this run away inflation. I am in agreement an RV could occur in 2008.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 17, 2006 5:25 PM ∞

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Armymp wrote:

People it's gone down, new rate is .336, it will be updated on the cbi tommorrow the 18th, guarenteed, me and my buddies are goin nuts over here. I got 3 more months of duty here, but can't wait to get outta here and back to my wife and kids in the states, we are rich.

-- October 17, 2006 5:26 PM ∞

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Treater wrote:

Anybody know who Armymp is? Is this his first post here?

-- October 17, 2006 5:51 PM ∞

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Mark wrote:

My God.............MP is right...........Oh my god, my source is confirming.

-- October 17, 2006 5:56 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Despite all you read in the liberal press, our Government and Military know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it. Their goals are difficult, but great progress is being completed.

In the meantime, the Dinar looks good for the short term and long term. And why is that?????? It's called Oil or "Texas Tea"!!!!!

=====================================================================================
Bush's Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq's Oil
Even as Iraq verges on splintering into a sectarian civil war, four big oil companies are on the verge of locking up its massive, profitable reserves, known to everyone in the petroleum industry as "the prize."
By Joshua Holland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16 October 2006 (AlertNet)
Iraq is sitting on a mother lode of some of the lightest, sweetest, most profitable crude oil on earth, and the rules that will determine who will control it and on what terms are about to be set.

The Iraqi government faces a December deadline, imposed by the world's wealthiest countries, to complete its final oil law. Industry analysts expect that the result will be a radical departure from the laws governing the country's oil-rich neighbors, giving foreign multinationals a much higher rate of return than with other major oil producers and locking in their control over what George Bush called Iraq's "patrimony" for decades, regardless of what kind of policies future elected governments might want to pursue.

Iraq's energy reserves are an incredibly rich prize. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, "Iraq contains 112 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, the second largest in the world (behind Saudi Arabia), along with roughly 220 billion barrels of probable and possible resources. Iraq's true potential may be far greater than this, however, as the country is relatively unexplored due to years of war and sanctions." For perspective, the Saudis have 260 billion barrels of proven reserves.

Iraqi oil is close to the surface and easy to extract, making it all the more profitable. James Paul, executive director of the Global Policy Forum, points out that oil companies "can produce a barrel of Iraqi oil for less than $1.50 and possibly as little as $1, including all exploration, oilfield development and production costs." Contrast that with other areas where oil is considered cheap to produce at $5 per barrel or the North Sea, where production costs are $12-16 per barrel.

And Iraq's oil sector is largely undeveloped. Former Iraqi Oil Minister Issam Chalabi (no relation to the neocons' favorite exile, Ahmed Chalabi) told the Associated Press that "Iraq has more oil fields that have been discovered, but not developed, than any other country in the world." British-based analyst Mohammad Al-Gallani told the Canadian Press that of 526 prospective drilling sites, just 125 have been opened.

But the real gem -- what one oil consultant called the "Holy Grail" of the industry -- lies in Iraq's vast western desert. It's one of the last "virgin" fields on the planet, and it has the potential to catapult Iraq to No. 1 in the world in oil reserves. Sparsely populated, the western fields are less prone to sabotage than the country's current centers of production in the north, near Kirkuk, and in the south near Basra. The Nation's Aram Roston predicts Iraq's western desert will yield "untold riches."

Iraq also may have large natural gas deposits that so far remain virtually unexplored.

But even "untold riches" don't tell the whole story. Depending on how Iraq's petroleum law shakes out, the country's enormous reserves could break the back of OPEC, a wet dream in Western capitals for three decades. James Paul predicted that "even before Iraq had reached its full production potential of 8 million barrels or more per day, the companies would gain huge leverage over the international oil system. OPEC would be weakened by the withdrawal of one of its key producers from the OPEC quota system." Depending on how things shape up in the next few months, Western oil companies could end up controlling the country's output levels, or the government, heavily influenced by the United States, could even pull out of the cartel entirely.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-17-10-2006&article=11125

-- October 17, 2006 6:09 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sorry....last post was mine.

-- October 17, 2006 6:11 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Didn't see any news on the other forums......this could be the wet dream of the year if it's true.......

-- October 17, 2006 6:22 PM ∞

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Jimmy Bennett Jr. SM2 wrote:

Mom, dad I know you read this site and I can't use the computer long but it's done. 36 cents is their new value the people are happy and we should be home soon.
I will call you saturday.

Love Jimmy

-- October 17, 2006 6:50 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

We have a Mark, on the site, Mark is a pretty common name, so this might be another one, then we have two handles I've never seen before, saying it's going down. One sentence postings. Are we having fun yet?
I wish you're right, but I believe it when I see it.

-- October 17, 2006 6:57 PM ∞

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bucketmaker wrote:

Looks like this may be for real. My brother-in-law- is in Southern Iraq and he just called my sister in Iowa to let her know.

-- October 17, 2006 7:06 PM ∞

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Jimmy Bennet JR SM2 wrote:

Shout Out to rolclub! woOt!

Just goes to show how gullible and greedy people become. woOt!

Least some are smart enough to catch on when it's BS

-- October 17, 2006 7:07 PM ∞

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Jimmy Bennett Jr. SM2 wrote:

It's not true. At least not my post but I come out and admit it unlike others who try to string people along.

-- October 17, 2006 7:09 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Jimmy.....I just talked to your Mom and she wants you to know that if you don't get off the booze and heavy drugs she's going to kick the screaming shi'ite out of you!! Your Dad gets out of jail next month and you know he will put some severe knots on your little pointy head!!

Now get back to work!!

By the way...who are you???

-- October 17, 2006 7:14 PM ∞

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TEXMAN2200 wrote:

Listen folks, I'm here in Iraq also, we have a revalue of the dinar it's almost .34 cents. you can believe me or not, but it will happen in a few hours, it's already morning here in Iraq, the transfer has taken place and everything is ready for the revalue, just wait a few more hours, and don't forget about us troops.

-- October 17, 2006 7:19 PM ∞

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BPLUS939 wrote:

This is utter BS!

-- October 17, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

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Armymp wrote:

don't believe that retard, I am amrymp, not that child who just posted that he was was me, like I said there has been a revalue of almost .34 cents, you will see in the upcomming hours, by the way punk how can you toy with peoples emotions, you moron, come over hear, in the trenches and find out what life is all about, gotta go.

-- October 17, 2006 7:26 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Seems like kids are running around on the site having fun.

Anyhow, no I dont think the Iraqi population is suicidal, it's a fraction of them, but then again, in the Christian world compared with the Muslim world, the ammount of suicide people is in contrast much higher there.

Okie,

Interesting posting, and yes, this is an aspect I never thought of before, OPEC an organization amongst oilproducing countries in the Middle East,, long having a monopoly of how much and how little outpout there should be, in order to control the world maket price, will be bypassed if Iraq will have a set up of multinational companies producing oil in Iraq. Good point.

-- October 17, 2006 7:27 PM ∞

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rolclubrocks wrote:

You people here are a bunch of wankers!! Get off the weed and the booze..Knuckleheads..hehe

-- October 17, 2006 7:28 PM ∞

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dumbass... wrote:

why don't you boys get off the computer. You mommy is going to kick your ass...

-- October 17, 2006 7:32 PM ∞

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Questionable wrote:

Bold has no URL.

-- October 17, 2006 8:07 PM ∞

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Questionable wrote:

This one has a URL.

Could easily be the same person.

-- October 17, 2006 8:08 PM ∞

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WhackmyFanny wrote:

All this talk about money is making my clit hard.

-- October 17, 2006 8:15 PM ∞

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rickandsheryl wrote:

Grow Up!!!

-- October 17, 2006 8:16 PM ∞

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TooBold wrote:

Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I think I need to get out the lotion and polish the general's helmet.

-- October 17, 2006 8:17 PM ∞

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FarmHand wrote:

"polish the general's helmet" ROTFLMFAO!!! Never heard that one before. Classic!!!!!

-- October 17, 2006 8:19 PM ∞

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Orville Redenbacher wrote:

Armymp wrote:
Anyone feel like probing my anus with a jalapeno pepper?

Methinks you do this everytime you eat at Taco Bell

-- October 17, 2006 8:30 PM ∞

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Armymp wrote:

I posted the reval info to prove how easily dealers create hype about the dinar.

I posted the link to ogrish.com because I wanted people to see just how bad iraq really is.

In a few hours, you will know that "Armymp" is really me, VANQUISH.

You will know, because the reval won't happen.

I created "Armymp", now I have some retard (probably scammers RET or Sportlux from investorsiraq) telling everybody that "Armymp" is a real guy tapping away on his laptop from a trench in Iraq.

How dumb do they think you are?

I also liked how quickly the dealers jumped on board this rumor to confirm it as true.

It was just a test, I admitted it quickly to not get too many peoples hopes up.

Just a few retards at IIF, thats all.

Regards

Vanquish :-)

-- October 17, 2006 8:30 PM ∞

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Concerned Citizen wrote:

Don't you babies have some online wedding books to troll, or something?

Why don't you leave the financial talk to the adults.

-- October 17, 2006 8:34 PM ∞

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whats is good wrote:

what is the truth is there a revaule really coming in a couple hours can we just know the truth here or what

-- October 17, 2006 8:49 PM ∞

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whats is good wrote:

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so impatient. It's just that I have a big scab on my penis from my boyfriend's braces and it's killing me. Sorry.

-- October 17, 2006 8:52 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Hey guys, check out this website. It's got some really good info about the Dinar

www.thehun.com

-- October 17, 2006 8:55 PM ∞

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ODS wrote:

are u me or am i you i frackin cant remember.

I was right in the middle of a fracking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things

-- October 17, 2006 8:56 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Dude, the other one was me and if you were for real you would have no way of knowing that there wasn't just one other poster claiming to be Armymp. The only way you could have known that is to know that there was someone else(me) in addition to the two you were doing. If you don't understand what I'm talking about then you are pretty stupid.

-- October 17, 2006 9:04 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Letme splain.

If you were for real...it would appear to you that there was only one other Armymp.

BUT...since you know for a fact that you are posting as two different Armymp's then my post makes you claim that there are two others (your fake one and mine) To everyone else it only appears that there are two Armymp's.

-- October 17, 2006 9:08 PM ∞

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Armymp wrote:

Check out the CBOT and CME its online now and the guys in Chicago are trading the Dinar on Forex as Iraq has just release the new!. We rich very rich! last trade

1=.329

-- October 17, 2006 9:12 PM ∞

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Armymp wrote:

Busted you moron.

When the reval doesnt happen in a few hours, everyone will know VANQUISH (me) was responsible for this hoax.

-- October 17, 2006 9:12 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Ok pimple faced internet geek tough guy. Whatever you say.
BTW..your mom is a lousy fuck.

-- October 17, 2006 9:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

We've got a roach infestation on this site, kids from the "anal interest" site walked over and starts telling each other about themselves.

-- October 17, 2006 9:32 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Imagine having a mind like one of those roaches walking over here.

An echochamber would have more substance to it.

-- October 17, 2006 9:35 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Actually, I kind of enjoy all this gay talk.

-- October 17, 2006 9:35 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Kids posing as something they're not.

-- October 17, 2006 9:38 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

[Homer Simpson]MMMMMMMMMMM.....PEEEENNNIISSS[/Homer Simpson]

Fixed it for you.

-- October 17, 2006 9:45 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Kids belonging on a chat site, have nothing to do, invade any site, and start to tell about their anal attraction, starts to use others handles to confuse who is saying what, and then they sit and laugh their lips off.

Completely clueless, you can rattle a keychain and they laugh.

-- October 17, 2006 9:47 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

If I ever catch these kids I will kill them. Seriously, If I ever catch you guys I will cut your throats.
Roaches!!

-- October 17, 2006 9:49 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

lol? lol?!? WTF dude, you must really BE gay. I'll bet you use all those faggy abbreviations don't you?
Do you ever use ROTFLMAO? That one has a particular fag-esque ring to it. Here's one for you...IWBCIMM

I Want Busted's Cock In My Mouth

-- October 17, 2006 9:54 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

That wont work whoever is posing as "Roger", Come up with something new or at least something that has some element of intelligence to it.

I guess it doesnt matter, most kids have left already, and only the true idiots, still hanging wanting to see, or trying to provoke some "action" is left.

My Space is waiting for you.

-- October 17, 2006 10:00 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hmmm, sounds interesting.

Vanquish,
Are you hot?

Busted,
I've got my shoes off.....I'm waiting.

-- October 17, 2006 10:12 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

None have moved away from home yet.

-- October 17, 2006 10:12 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Rog,
Man, you sure a master at the insults aren't you? Gosh Darn It All.

-- October 17, 2006 10:14 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Imzagine these clowns, driving a train, flying an aeroplane, or running a business.. HA HA HA HA

-- October 17, 2006 10:15 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Oooooo, Rog with words that sting!

Go Roger, Go Roger, Go Roger.

-- October 17, 2006 10:17 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Imagine these clowns when they are applying for a real job.

-- October 17, 2006 10:17 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

My My!
aren't we blessed with such a display of intelligence tonight? I believe in the mental field its called arrested development.

-- October 17, 2006 10:18 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Roger,
You know what they say...when you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME.
Truth be told Rog, old buddy. I probably make a hell of a lot more money than you do.
I have a Bachelor and a Master of Science in Structural Engineering and I design offshore oil platforms to the tune of about $115,000 per year. What do you do Rog? In my spare time I like to fuck with dolts like you. Relieves the stress of a long work day.

-- October 17, 2006 10:21 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

That's nothing Busted. I make $200,000 per year pimping my daughter out to black men.

-- October 17, 2006 10:23 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Busted,

I doubt you have any education at all, your so down in the hole you dont even know you exist. You dont know what up or down is, much less to find any cavity except you big mouth.

-- October 17, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Ooops, looks like I killed them with words.

Bad Busted!!!...Bad, Bad Man.

-- October 17, 2006 10:29 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Busted,

If your criteria of how good you are, is your income, sorry I beat you on that too. What a joke you are.

-- October 17, 2006 10:31 PM ∞

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Busted wrote:

Oh, Rog, Rog, Rog...you have no idea. You just don't want to believe that someone as highly educated as me could do such childish things. Truth is...we all have our dark little areas of fun and games. You just want to keep on believing that the only possible people who could post such drivel are people that are beneath you because that makes you feel Ok about yourself. If you thought for a moment that someone more educated and with a much higher earning potential than yourself would be capable of this...that would invalidate all the warm, fuzzy feelings you have about yourself.

-- October 17, 2006 10:36 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Whatever, you're just a stupid ninny and I hate you.

-- October 17, 2006 10:39 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

"If your criteria of how good you are, is your income, sorry I beat you on that too."

Hey now, I didn't include money I make giving blowjobs and you shouldn't either.

-- October 17, 2006 10:41 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

Roger,
OK, I am finished. I have elicited the response I was looking for. I apologize for having led you into this fray but it was for the sake of science. My daughter has a sixth grade science project to do so I was helping her with her topic "Fucking With Geeks On The Internet - A Modern Study" She has collected enough data on our exchange here to complete her project so I'm going to wrap it up here. Thanks for your help...even if unknowing. Cross your fingers that she gets an A+
Thanks Again.

-- October 17, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

The imposters are around, who is who and what is what?

Busted,

I dont have a clue what where or who you are, if you feel good about yourself, fine, if you feel that you have something on me, talking about education your income or whatever, your in a dreamworld.

Your perception about a warm and fuzzy feeling , is all in your head, whatever you think you are, you're not, and thinking you have one up on me, or someone else, sorry, it's all between your therapist and you.

Do you have a beef.....I guess saying it straight is not in your book.

Now your so stupid that you have an idea that you're going to teach me or someone else something , when youre not even up to the most basic task of them all.

If you can't even do that, then what exactly are you going to teach us, nothing, my friend, nothing.

-- October 17, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

To all on this forum. This will be my last post and I'm sure you all will receive that information to a big round of applause. I apologize for having to make an example of Roger and smear his little ass into a big grease stain on the floor of this forum. Anyway, I am not into long term destruction of internet forums and I am sure that you all would like to get back to talking about the Dinar. I will pop in from time to time just to make an example out of someone and to keep you all humble. Until then...peace out.

The Bustmeister.

-- October 17, 2006 10:53 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi, Im a very smart educated man, I make 115.000 year as a designer, so I'm smart, right... I like to do it in your rectum, HA HA HA, oh I'm sorry I just doing my daughter a favour. HA HA HA, oh isnt it fun being as smart as I am, oh did I mention, I make 115.000 a year and are highly educated, ha ha ha, oh I cant say so, why, can't you accept a man of having fun,.....

Where do they find people like that?

-- October 17, 2006 10:56 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Oh by the way, I will keep an eye on you and come back and smear someones elses ass when I get that warm and fyzzy feeeling ha ha ha ....be good now, remember I'm watching you......

-- October 17, 2006 11:00 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

Oh, one more thing. Rog, you've been a load of fun buddy. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I was just messing with you. I'm sure you are more intelligent than me and make more money than me. You're OK in my book man. I'm impressed that you never flew off the handle. I wish I had that kind of composure and maturity. Oh, that reminds me....I need to go take a dump.

Bye

-- October 17, 2006 11:01 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

Rog,
Something just occured to me. Are you in Nigeria?

-- October 17, 2006 11:02 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Yeah, be humble, remember Bustmeister is watching, ... Isn't it nice to know there is a pshyco out there with a self appointed purpose of watching our moral standards, to comply to his liking.

-- October 17, 2006 11:07 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

"Hi, Im a very smart educated man, I make 115.000 year as a designer, so I'm smart, right... I like to do it in your rectum, HA HA HA, oh I'm sorry I just doing my daughter a favour. HA HA HA, oh isnt it fun being as smart as I am, oh did I mention, I make 115.000 a year and are highly educated, ha ha ha, oh I cant say so, why, can't you accept a man of having fun,....."

Now Rog,
I've got to hand it to you on this one. That is some really funny shit!! I about fell out of my chair when I read than.
You're one funny SOB man. I think you would be a blast to hang out with and drink beer. The only problem is that you appear to be so damn cool and composed that you make me feel ashamed of who I really am.

-- October 17, 2006 11:07 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Busted,

See ya.

-- October 17, 2006 11:12 PM ∞

---

Busted wrote:

Hey Rog,
You're kind of new to this internet forum thing aren't you?
Do you know what a troll is Rog?
I'm thinking that maybe you don't and it's making me feel guilty because anyone can take candy from a baby...the real challenge is in taking it from the big, mean, SOB who knows you're coming for his candy.
Rog, is all this making any sense at all to you? If not, then I suggest asking any knowledgeable internet forum regular what a troll is.

-- October 17, 2006 11:13 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

There was a time when "Queers" were hanged just for being queer.

These boys (if there are many like them) could return us to those days.

-- October 17, 2006 11:17 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

If a game is getting someone to take a bait, thats your game. Bust into a site and get it going, very well done, if there's where you get your kicks.

I'm sure you can get really good at it and develop you own lingo together with the other kids about it, and then have an internal rating and so on, but hey, have fun.

-- October 17, 2006 11:26 PM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Why is the stock market open at 7:30 in the morning?

-- October 17, 2006 11:48 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

well, there you have it friends. . . mental midgets invading a social post. . .and right now the IRD=1468X1USD is the latest trade. . .so now we have CYBER-RAMBOS. . . too bad. .

-- October 18, 2006 12:57 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Busted,

Never leave fingerprints............"peace out".

-- October 18, 2006 1:01 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Panhandler,

1468 to the buck, ok. I would say it's one of the fluctuations permitted for. Remember the Dinar is not strictly pegged, but it's more of a balance act of holding the Dinar in a small window range.

Hey Panhandler, tell me something, did you ever see Outlaw, he had his last posting here by the end of last month, and said he would be over there by the 5th in his estimate. Never heard one word from him since. Have you seen him over there?

-- October 18, 2006 1:22 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

Roger, we've been told that the dinar will remain between 1450 and 1490, so far, it's been right on. . .and as for Outlaw, possible he's here in the sandbox, but i haven't run in to him yet. . he does have several friends here that I know, and if I happen to run into him I'll make sure he gets to the post. . .

-- October 18, 2006 1:45 AM ∞

---

Professor X wrote:

"To all on this forum. This will be my last post and I'm sure you all will receive that information to a big round of applause. I apologize for having to make an example of Roger and smear his little ass into a big grease stain on the floor of this forum. Anyway, I am not into long term destruction of internet forums and I am sure that you all would like to get back to talking about the Dinar. I will pop in from time to time just to make an example out of someone and to keep you all humble. Until then...peace out."

Keep us humble? Make an example of me? Thats mighty brazen of you........

Easy to have brass balls here, anonymity has a way of inflating ones phallus to epic sizes.

Take your shriveled nutsack back to mommy, she ain't done breastfeeding you.

-- October 18, 2006 1:49 AM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Wow... That had ot be one of the most pointless,ignorant things I've ever seen. For the whole 5 seconds I spent reading that garbage, I thought we had MoL back but this person/ these people took this to a leve of utter ignorance I had not seen since pre-school. Can an educated man act like that? Answer: No. An educated man knows he has nothing to prove. If he truly is smarter than the other person, he either educates them or lets them learn their lessons the hard way. In short, this sounds like the ramblings of a pot smoking terd who works in the local Burger King as a fry chef. A soldier? Yeah right... Toting your "gun" in your hand 5 times a day does not make you a Marine. Go back ot your kitchen and let the adults talk now.

Respond if you like, but this is the last 2 minutes of time you'll get form me.

-- October 18, 2006 2:57 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

All,

Wow, I go away for a couple of days and what the heck happened???

I must admit, I was somewhat concerned on exactly how Roger came to be the reviewer of all thought on this site. It was irritating to me how we all seem to present our opinions based on if Roger will validate them or not.

A few on this site are obviously smarter than he, but very gracious to take their stand in a very non-threatening, diplomatic way.

I obviously could not.

I think the turning ( off) point for me was to see his trend of instructing people to "read alittle more" when they disagreed with him. Very condescending!

Having said that, I do not think he or anyone else on this site deserved or needed to be assualted in the way these guys (?) intervened in this somewhat sophisticated disscussion group.

The first posting I read was about the Dinar RV. I must admit that my heart skipped a beat or two. I was going to go right over to the phone to call my daughter who I had spoken to earlier. Because she said that she read an article in FOrbes magazine that predicted the DInar to RV very soon at a $3.00 rate.

Thank fully, (????) I read on a little and began to realize something very terrible was happening to this site.

On my poker site, every-so -often, some creep will post, and in a few minutes he /she is dealt with and somehow is thrown off the ability to post.

Can that happen here?
I hope so.

What will be our options if this continues?

Well, I am going to try to find that Forbes magazine web site. I'll let you know what I find.

In the meantime, I would suggest no one responding to these intruders and perhaps ignoring them will get rid of them.
They are obviously seeking reactions and attention.

-- October 18, 2006 6:37 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Gee! Carole!

I don't think the rest of us knew you were doing that! We really didn't give a shit whether roger or or anyone else validated what we posted...its our post and we stand behind it....agree or disagree the wonderful choices of democracy.

So type away how you really feel....let it go...turn the dogs loose...don't be intimidated by anyone...much less me or anyone else with greater or lesser in intelligence.

You've been around those poker players to long....have you ever thought about another past time....? I find Cricket a fast invigorating sport to watch..or World Raw Wrestling with all those muscles popping and groaning...ohHHHHHHHH! sorry! sometimes I just loose control....

-- October 18, 2006 7:36 AM ∞

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Busted Again wrote:

I find it amazing that so many people are convinced of their own intelligence.

I do however have one observation.....Truly intelligent people don't get caught up in responding to such drivel or talking about how ignorant the poster must be or how they must be some pot-smoking Burger King employee.

No...truly intelligent people....ignore posters like Busted.

So all you people trying to act like you're at some high level of intelligence by talking down on posters like Busted...you're actually debunking the myth that you are intelligent.

Sorry, I know the truth hurts but it had to be said.

-- October 18, 2006 7:45 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

Busted: it doesn't matter a rat's ass how intelligent someone is, it's how much respect you have for your peers, that's the problem in todays society. . .lack of respect, the U.S. was founded on freedom of speech, so if anyone offends you by demeaning your intelligent, you can either respond or shut the fuck up. . .i'm sorry to the rest of you, but i just had to get that off my chest. . .

-- October 18, 2006 8:30 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

For the person who started the RV hoax: Thanks! People need to be able to sort out the difference between bullshit and reality. That's harder than it sounds, the older I get. People need to remember there is a lot of bullshit in this world. A "Bullshit Detector" always needs to have been installed in everybody's head, and turned on all the time, and upgraded as often as possible, so that whether we are listening to the President of the United States on TV, listening to our kids as to why they are late getting home, or listening to the opinion or reading the reporting of a "fact" on the internet, we are less likely to be fooled.

That was a great object lesson. Thanks again.

-- October 18, 2006 10:30 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

What a revolting display of human nature. I realize human nature is such that it will lend itself to use colorful language. But this display was not necessary.

Carole:

Please provide the Forbes article or link as soon as possible. I would like to read it.

Okie:

Great post about western oil companies wanting to tap Iraqi reserves. If the U.S. and Iraq can break the Opec Oil cartel, it may spell relief from foreign oil costs.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 18, 2006 11:24 AM ∞

---

Megyn wrote:

Busted Again wrote:
"I find it amazing that so many people are convinced of their own intelligence.
I do however have one observation.....Truly intelligent people don't get caught up in responding to such drivel or talking about how ignorant the poster must be or how they must be some pot-smoking Burger King employee."

HaHa! Now THAT is classic commentary a la' Busted. So does this point to YOUR lack of intelligence as well? I haven't seen one comment that came your way, that you were able to refrain from commenting on.

I really liked you early on when you were giving that IDIOT, Vanquish, a hard time. He truly deserved it.
But then you turned into an ass. How disappointing.

-- October 18, 2006 11:51 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi all, whatawe got today, well yesterday we had an ant invasion, and today .....

Carole,

Yes, if it ticks you off, to be pointed out that you should "read up more about it" , well ,may it be so. That doesnt take intelligence in bigger ammount, but work, a lot of people on this blog have done their homework, have a lot of backing in what they say, and have in no way tried to shine with a badge of higher form of living intelligence.

As far as I'm concerned, this blog have never been an intelligence contest, no one needs either my or any one elses approval, no one is a self designated lythmus tester, no one is a standard. Some here MAY have higher intelligence, some here MAY have somewhat less, but the last I checked, we dont have any comparable IQ scores.

By individual opinion, based on accumulated knowledge, one might suggest that a read up on a subject would be in the best interest.

Carole, when you're sitting at your poker table, you're in the game hot and heavy, it's getting very interesting, and here comes a person to the table, asking you what this card is, it have a heart in the middle of it, ...is that a good or bad card????

That person can't play the game you're playing, right, and now, you have a choice.

1. Stop playing the game you want to play, go back to basic and become a teacher for this person,

or

2. Ask the person to go, on his own time, spending his own energy, and read up on the poker rules.

On many blogs it is even considered rude to ask questions that have been answered hundred times before, and back reading of a subject is considered expected.

To back read, is less of an intelligence proposition, rather disciplin and ...oh do I dear say...hard work.

Coming from that, going to you comment, that you consider it being ticked off , being asked to do some reading.

Your opinion about my intelligence is irrelevant. You may very well take the position that I have less intelligence because I asked you, or some one else to do some back reading. Even though that in itself doesnt come across as particular smart.

You may very well sleep better at night, thinking so, but you have not gotten any more knowledge that way, you have sneaked out of the need for self dischipline of actually yourself, with your own energy, interest and enthusiasm do the factual reading up on the subject.

But then again, then, it will be you, who comes to the table, asking what those card with red squares on them are.

-- October 18, 2006 1:03 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Carole:

This blog is designed for every person choosing to post expresss his/her own opinion. Roger and I have a fundamental disagreement concerning the order of events which I feel must take place prior to an RV.

Yet, I post my opinion and do not seek approval from my peers before doing so. I think this type of forum affords one more liberty to explore different ideas. Weighing the merits of each and choosing to agree or disagree with them.

Feel free to post your ideas and do not worry what Roger, Carl, or anybody thinks.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 18, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

Well said.

I must in light of the latest Iraqi development, say, that I am starting to lean more in your direction regarding a reval. I hope it's not years and years in coming, but it doesn't seem to be a daily nailbiter.

It is apparent that they are doing a "chock treatment" of the economy. Let the Iraqi man starve, and get rid of the heavy debt burden.

In the latest months alone the security situation have shifted from sporadic bombs, to ethnic cleansing.

If any man can walk the streets in piece, you can say you are in control over the area, but I have a feeling that if you want to go out in Baghdad, you want to expose yousef as little as ever possible, no matter if you are a Soldier, Sunni, Shiia, man, woman or child.

A conditon like that says the obvious, we are not in control over the city, the insurgents are in control.

Any rebuild program in a condition like that will not work.

There should be a buzzing rebuild effort right now, people hanging in electric lines fixing up the grid, people fixing up roads, people painting their houses, and in the afternoon strolling in filled streets,maybe having a leisure coffee in a coffe shop.

If it's not that way, something else is controlling the streets.

If it's not us, then we're not in control.

I can see how this thing will hang in limbo, it's a saving your face proposition, claiming that " there is no civil war" and at the same time, any goverment official or anyone needing to go somewhere must go in escorted convoy.

It's good and calm enough in most other regions, that progrss can be made over there, but bad enough in the insurgent areas that it will stifle anything that is called progress.

I think it's passed the time now, when you can point on the good areas and justify that with the bad areas.

This insurency has to be dealth with, may this be, part Al Qaida, part old Saddam Cronies, or part sectarian scores to settle.

I'm leaning to believe more and more now, that this is sapping the effort for a rebuild, and is prolonging any future investment. Still the investments (oil) will come, and things will turn around, but just by the fact that the insurgency is going on, all schedules have to be remade.

Would all the Iraqis have stand up and said, lets get this ship moving, we would probably have been done by now, but that's not in the cards.

RV, as I see it now, at least not this year.

-- October 18, 2006 4:24 PM ∞

---

MIGHTY MOUSE wrote:

YAHOO FINACE CHART WAS KINDA CRAZY TODAY

-- October 18, 2006 5:29 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Rob N; Well said. No one should feel intimidated in this blog. Everybody should just feel free to post what they believe. No one needs approval from anyone else, for what they believe. Everyone should be treated with respect, as an equal.

-- October 18, 2006 7:31 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Correct, I dont have a clue even where she is getting the idea from that I am a person that are giving out approvals, grades or such. There have been some newbies coming in saying things like.......are they using Australian Dollars in Iraq? or something similar, and they might be asked to read up a bit.

Perfectly reasonable request if they want to stay in the game.

Either way, yes you wrote a couple of very interesting things before we had an ant invasion, and we got thrown off the tracks a bit.

Well question in Iraq if where and what direction the whole enchilada will go.

I think its pretty clear that the frustration over the situation have come to an end, and that there will be a showdown in one way or the other.

WhatI will be afraid of is that the silk glove will prevail, that they find reason enough to do one of these loooong and gradual things.

Malaki, the Iraqi PM have gotten public support, and confidence, either he really have a plan for change, or have been able to BS himself around enough in the White House making them believe he have the situation under control. He have not been able to do much of progress ( at least visible practical progress that can be shown) during the time he have been a PM.

When the house is burning, you can't sit around and dabble about some fractions pasts upsets.

I sincerely hope that there is a strong and quick, measurable and effective plan in progress. All the US military is sitting there itching for game, and by this time the Iraqi, willing forces should be enough to handle it.

I'm pretty sure all are very aware of the dire situation, but what I'm afraid of is that the Iraqi PM in his habit of doing things, will just try to "iron out one more thing"......weeks after week.

-- October 18, 2006 9:05 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim and Rob,

Thanks for the last postings.I really wasn't intimidated, but irritated. I did as Roger suggested and read( alot) starting with the three largest and most dominant factions of the Islamic theologies.\: The Sunnis, SHiites and Kurds.

It was mind opening and mind boggling, as I stated. The present and future is always partly defined by the past. ANd as I saw the present and future in light of the past,
the Islamic message is one of violence, intolerance and a clear consistence message of World Rule. Eliminating any and all that stand in the way of their primal intentions that were established centuries ago and have not changed.

I used the word "nuclear" as an option to irradicate the regions that are growing in power and might as well as recruitment to their philosophies and violent ways of advancing their agenda.

Roger's response challenged my morals and ethics.

I don't like to play in a game where the rules change to suit someones inability or unwillingness to consider another point of view.

His response was as inappropriate as if I were to chastise so many on this post for their lust for wealth when so many people around the world are starving..... if you get my point.

Also, I think it is fair to alert those who even care, that I am and have always been a provocative thinker and responder. Sometimes it may seem absurd to others but to me it is a thought I am considering.

For example: From the reading I have done, so far, I think that we should have left Saddam in power. We knew him and how to deal with him. Given enough time, he would have hung himself because his own emotional disturbance got in the way ( everytime) of what he really wanted for Iraq and the people. HIs temper and need for violent solutions pre-empted his over-all plan of having Bagdad replace Cairo in the Middle East, as far as influence and power. He blew it time and time again for his country.

A good example of this was his engaging in the war with Iran. HIs thought was that he could go in like gangbusters and defeat Iran within a year. He failed to do his homework on the capabilites of Iran and grossly underestimated them. Thus he led his country into a long drawn out war that depleated them of all resources,including fighting men. He turned his own country into poverty, because of his impetuous nature.

We knew that about him and he could hardly make a move that we didn't " beat him at the pass" . Think of Kuwait!

NOw I haven't totally formulated my overall opinion, but at this point it is going around in my head.

Another area of thought that I am exploring is that we ( the USA) can establish world peace by being the first to throw the nuclear bomb ( and Iran would be a good place for that to happen).

Think about it---- how many Hiroshimas have there been since we pulled the switch???

Yes, I know the human devestation and destruction was of great magnitude. BUt it caused a deterent that saved multiple times more of human destruction for decades. I respect the " Peace through strength" philosophy, cause ---- it works.

This entire world is being threatened daily by political bullies on a daily basis. One of these days one of these bullies are going to really believe themselves, and if nothing else, to save face, pull the switch.

The difference is, if the US does it , the world will be a safer place for decades to come. There is no other nuclear power in this world that would ensure that.

We owe it to the world to do it. Cause surer than shoot someone will be the first.

There are those demons of the global community who are just chomping at the bit to pull the switch. But with entirely differnt objectives than us. They are evil men and minds---we are not!!!

The only other country that I would invite to pull the switch would be Isreal.But I don't think they have the capability and they have a huge liberal faction in their country
that has and will continue to thwart their efforts to survive---example--the last scheme pulled by Isreali liberals concerning Lebanon.

In my opinion they should have gone for the nuclear reactor in Iran rather than their wasted efforts in Lebanon.

I am by no means a military expert, but I do have a brain that operates on cuase and effect and a whole lot of comonsense.

Another stirring thought in my head:

I believe if "someone" would unleash Condi and Bolton, we would see some real progress.
They both are very smart, no nonsense leaders that have the guts to put to their convictions. But right now they are impotent because they are playing the role of puppets.

I am so hoping that Condi gets fed up and frustrated enough to run for president and take Bolton as VP.

NOw that would create a picture that would put us back on the map as a world power and give this world a chance to survive the evil and terroristic approach to world dominance.

The other thing about Roger is that his thinking and opinions and information dissemeninating is so convoluted that it leaves loophole after loophole of ambiguity that I see most here deferring to him, probably out of which makes them doubt themselves.

That is not because he is so smart, but because he is so shrewd, not to mention manipulative.

BUt as you both say---anything goes here and there is no right or wrong ( ah! relevativism again) Oh well, I hope it isn't too influential here.

I could continuously shoot holes in his statements and thinking, but what for?? I am too busy and with someone like Roger, you really can't win or the better word is proceed.

Besides Tim, You have a way better mind and style than me, and you can keep the peace also.

I'm sure you are not Italian!!! One up on me!!lol

-- October 18, 2006 9:44 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

It's ok you dont have to be afraid, you can speak with me directly.

Sometimes it's more convenient to talk about a person in 3'rd sense when you know he is present, I'm guilty of that too. But face to face is more guts and honest.

Try again Carole, start next blog with: Roger,

Then you address me stright on what you have on you heart about me.

-- October 18, 2006 9:59 PM ∞

---

Terry wrote:

Vanquish,

You had me going there for a bit with this rumor.

You are an asshole.

You are right about the investorsiraq forum though, they are just concerned with pushing the dinar.

Scamming fuckers

-- October 18, 2006 10:05 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Comon, Im manipulating, convoluted and.....????

You can do it Carole, ...

-- October 18, 2006 11:08 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Carole, Roger, & Tim:

I have been reading this Blog for some time now and I am highly impressed with all three of you as you are so valuable to this site. Don't get at each others throat because we are all pulling in the same direction.

Roger: I am especially impressed with your knowedge and facts such as your post on how the atomic bomb works.

You are a regular fella and a terrific asset to this blog but regarding your comment about bad teeth in the USA-Roger you need to stop spending so much time in Trailor Parks.

-- October 19, 2006 12:48 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

All,

I have been reading some of the last blogs and I simply do not know what happened here????

Generally, everyone is respectful of everyones else's opinions, feelings and research. I do not see this respect given others on this forum.

Carole,

From what I have been gathering, it appears that you have your feelings hurt.

_I have known Roger for a long while on this forum.

_I believe him to be intelligent and a thoughtful man.

-I do not believe he was trying to hurt your feelings or belittle you.

-I have also disagreed with Roger from time to time.

-However, we are still friends.

-Finally, write Roger in the first person as he suggested and work out your differences.

Everyone Else,

I poppped in because I wanted to share with you all that I am in the Ocala Florida area and I am planning on attending Alachua Republican Fund Raiser on Thursday night 10/19/06 to listen to General George Sada. He probably will be promoting his new book "Saddam's Secrets".

I thought you all might be interested. I do not know if I will be able to ask questions of him on Iraq. However, I do want to do so.

Peace and good will to all.

Laura

-- October 19, 2006 1:01 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sorry Neil, I will immediately move away from my home, and say goodbye to all my Jerry Springer stars, how about the Waffle House? no just joking...

Na, it's not a brawl, it's not an all for one, this is a Carole versus Roger, thing.

I've got thick skin, so I'll be fine.

I'm just curious how she dreamed up all this stuff about me, and are waiting for her to face me directly. I guess her skin wasnt that thick after all.

Funny you mentioned nukes, she wanted to nuke the hell out of places down there, and I objected.

I guess that was so insensitive that, that, in her eyes, I owe her an apology for doing so, I suppose, we'll se, hope she comes back.

Na , Neil, dont worry it'll be ok.

-- October 19, 2006 1:09 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Laura,

Hug, hey if you have a chance, yes, you were talking about this guy earlier, This is the guy that have a lot of insider things, like the WMD ' where they were shipped and so on.

If it is possible to get this info, if you have a chance to talk with him, if you could please try to milk him if he ever got debriefed by our intelligence.

I'm just curious if they know, or if they have shunned this guy.

Good luck.

-- October 19, 2006 1:15 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

When a person comes to a poker table and starts asking ANY question about what a card or play is---it usually means that the table is being duped and we are all about to be had---

BTW, I have no problem addressing you directly, WHEN I WANT TO......if that is okay with you.

I also wished that you would take a little broader look at my opinions and reasonings and not jump the gun and play a war on words.

I truly enjoy and thrive on debate, but debate the issues not the person. Cause I'll meet you at the pass everytime until I get bored or fed up.

If you don't believe that a nuclear response to what I have presented as a possible option for an international crisis... or whatever... then simply say so and give your ideas about what other viable solutions you would consider, etc etc

Don't respond by putting me in the same category as Hitler, or some moralistic response as "search my soul".
If you want to debate morals... then.. great.. let's debate morals. Because to mix things up ( the apples and oranges thing) is manipulative.

Because at that point the debate is essentially over, and the pissing contest begins.

I know I can never piss as far as you can,, but you can bet your life, I will go down trying!!!lol....

Now, I have presented some thoughts, that I hoped woudl provoke some feedback that will challenge my processing in a way that will broaden my scope of thinking, reverse it or maybe even validate it.

The ideal would be to have a response that is quantified, so I can really learn something.

When you directed me to read someething, I beleive your intentions were meant to be helpful and I did read and I appreciated your suggestion, because it was not a "loaded"one.

But I have seen you use that " go read more" approach ( to others) as a way to try to exalt yourself. In other words.. they haven't arrived yet....

Besides, reading is only one way of obtaining knowledge.

And just because something is in print and published doesn't necessarily make it true or verifiable, and can be misleading.

I am inately skeptical, and proceed until my skepticism is validated or diluted.

I, for one, try to look a little deeper, in an effort to find truth, wisdom and knowledge.

AT,62, I know what I know. But there is more that I don't know than I do. ANd that is what keeps me alive....always wanting to know more.

So, bone up and teach me something....this middle east stuff is new for me...

But please don't put your assumptions and labels on my thoughts and words in my mouth, cause you will shut me down , and I will shut you out.

At some point, probably a long way off, I will have gathered enough information and thought to declare" I know what I know" on this middle east subject, the dinar etc....and if I still have my sight, hearing and mind, I'll find another subject of interest to pursue.

Another possibility is, that in a forum such as this, who really cares about my or anyone elses growth or intellectual ventures. we don't know eachother or have any real vested interest in relationshhips.Which makes us all very vulnerable for wasting alot of time.

I guess that is something that we all have to determine for ourselves.

Now comon, start synapsing, and respond to some of my earlier thoughts,and try to remember, I am in process....

or you could just "close the book" on this, convince yourself I have a Hitler mentality and no soul... and find someone else who might be more willing to boost your ego..

~ {:

-- October 19, 2006 5:17 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,
Going back to a poarting you had to Tim on 10/17.

You spoke of Patton and "he would probably crush their bones"....

If Patton were in charge of this Middle East mess today, where do you think his stance would be if he had nuclear options?

A more fun question... do you think he would buy dinars?

-- October 19, 2006 6:27 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Laura....

If you get a chance, ask the general if he knows how many $US the Iraqis took with them from Baghdad to Syria just before the war started. Might be an interesting figure!

-- October 19, 2006 8:19 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Rob N.

My daughter dropped off a copy of what I thought was to be her referral to what she read from Forbes. But for the life of me, I can't find anything relating to Forbes.

What she brought me is a copy of eDinar Financial : SECURING A CHANGING WORLD
October 2006 updates.

Excerpts from news articles up to OCtober 15.

Look at it and see what you think. I haven'tt had a chance to open it up and go to the links yet.But just from the log of events, it looks like they are full speed ahead, with much activity going on. Several headings stating how the Minister of FInance is giving away tons of money:
MINISTER OF FINANCE SPECIFIES ONE BILLION DOLLARSTO SUPPORT THE UNEMPLOYED AND LEND TOTHISE WHO WANT TO BUILD HOUSES....

There is much much more, but I have to get ready to leave. I will probably spend most of my afternoon opening upthese sites.
I hope you can find it.

Also, under the same site dated October 15,2006 there is a chart plotting the investment potential in the new Iraqi Dinar. The clips alongside of that chart are even more interesting. They can be opened also to get more detail.

Later today, I will callmy daughter and find out what she meant by Forbes.

However, I went to the Forbes site myself and searched for info on DInar. I found nothing of new or enlightening information. Pretty general old circulated info.

be back later...

-- October 19, 2006 10:03 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here is an article from edinarfinancial.net.

Iraqi dinar between the illusion of zeros and the game of economy
September 13, 2006

Later, this suggestion turned out to be the removal of three zeros from right side of the figure; thus ( 5.000.000) five million iraqi dinars. will be ( 5.000 ) five thousand Iraqi dinar. many saw great good in this procedure but it is necessary to explain it scientifically.

The value of the currency affects many aspects which are linked to the National Economy like its strength and how much resource it has. It also, reflects the firmness of association when range and size of deficit to GDP represent how much that deficit is taking from size of GDP of a country; in other words, this ratio represent the size of the ( corrosion ) taking place in the GDP because of this shortfalls in the balances. Hence the economic imbalance which affects the structure of economy resulting this contradictory combination that finally leads to economic problems reflected on the economic process in this country affecting all joints of life and it is revealed even move the ordinary individual because it is directly attached to his average level of living.

Thus the existence of the deficit in the balance requires to filled by the state, and then there is the increasing demand for the foreign exchange to fill that deficit, that demand grows whenever the deficit does, and the size of the financial obligations of a certain country grows too, especially when these obligations means the increase in its foreign debts.

The high demand for the foreign exchange leads to the rise of the prices of the foreign currency which is subjected to the mechanism of the supply and demand and the requirements of the international or local market. This will lead to the devaluation of the local currency of that country and will be reflected on the living situation. In other words, the ratio of inflation in the economy which is obvious to the observer is actually in the increasing zeros added to the currency. This shows clearly in the Iraqi economy and the economies of such countries like Turkey, Italy, Iran, Israel and others.

Another important point is that the currency is issued and its value is determined according to a law issued by the state through the mechanisms and the institutes in charge of the financial policy in that state. So it is certainly not a viewpoint of a certain person nor just on opinion of this matter.

To recall some experience, Turkey, which has suffered from severe inflation after accepting the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund concerning the economic reform programs? , which led to progress in economic performance, but the price of this performance was paid by the middle class in society. This economical progress did not prevent the existence of a high inflation ratio that seemed to be obvious to the ordinary none-specialized observant to economy, like when you learn that the price of a loaf of bread is one million Turkish liras. It was then, the value of the currency was improved by removing zeros, and the price of the loaf became one thousand Turkish liras. But this was not done by re-constructing the Currency Law, nor by its Gold and Cash re-evaluation. It was by an internal procedure aiming at absorbing the fear, despair and frustration caused by the high ratio of inflation and so, the zeros were removed without a real change in the true value of the currency which represent the true value of the individual income; meaning, the amount of goods and services an individual could get. Thus, the removal of the zeros was no more than a ( monetary illusion ). So it is not a fundamental but rather a formal change that affects the mentality of those who deals with the currency more it affects the size of the economic transactions.

A reporter of one of the Arabic newspapers asked me about the impact of this decision, if applied in Iraq? My answer was that it would not exceed the ( monetary illusion ) and there would not be any real changed in the true value of the currency nor any re-evaluation to it, because such actions would require a re-construction of the whole Iraqi economy and the re-arrangement of the Iraqi economic papers affecting its bound with the Paris Club and its obligation to the conditions of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. This will not happen ; what will happen is an attempt to absorb the anxiety and frustration on the Iraqi currency dealer. We can not change the value of the Iraqi currency into a better state of value and pricing as long as there are still unpaid external debts and until we find the best way to deal with these debts.

Some dealers in the currency markets in the neighboring countries feared from the Iraqi Government taking such actions. This fear would have been normal during the reign of the fallen regime because of the unavailable freedom for the circulation of foreign exchange, the existence of the central market and the dictatorial philosophy then. But now, the freedom to deal with and circulate foreign exchange is available in Iraq because of the economical openness and the circulation of currency became free in and outside Iraq; but it is also subjected to the factor of supply and demand. There is also, the political stability which greatly affects directing the rates of the supply and demand and its management in and outside Iraq.

Any observer can sense this more clearly in the money markets in neighboring countries.

Finally, we have a long way to go on the way of the economic reform and reconstruction in order to improve the price of the Iraqi Dinar and its raise its value or as some would like to call it ( when the Iraqi Dinar gets its health back ). This is not impossible and tomorrow is not too far.(Source)AlSabah

Any comments from the gallery?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 19, 2006 11:54 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

You tell me:

There has been a bit of talk on this site lately about the nuclear option, in the war on Islamic extremism, in Iraq, or elsewhere. Could that ever happen? Is that just crazy talk?

Well, let's think about it a bit...

To nuke, or not to nuke, that is the question. Let me say, right off the bat: I doubt if the Americans will use nukes first in the middle east. They are too ethical.

However....let me brainstorm for a minute...I don't know what will happen in Iraq, or elsewhere, in the future, but let's see if I can come up with what I do know, for sure...Lets see what I do know about this question...

I know that nuclear proliferation is spreading at a very rapid pace, around the globe. I know the evil genie is out of the bottle...I know that one Islamic country, Pakistan, has the bomb. I know that the president of that country is barely hanging on to power, by the tips of his fingers. I know that a large element of the Pakistani population agree with people like Osama bin Laden, and would like nothing better than to nuke the Americans. I know that radical Muslims may take power in Pakistan some day.

I know that Egypt and Libya, both countries with large radical Muslim populations, have both put a lot of effort into acquiring the bomb, although Libya said it temporarily gave up the chase, after seeing what happened to Saddam Hussein.

I know Al Queda has been trying to get a nuclear bomb for a long time now. I know they hate Europeans and Americans, and some of them are willing to die by driving an airplane into a large building, just to kill people they don't know, because they are the wrong religion. I know that they would like to use them on the Americans, for sure.

I know that millions of containers enter the United States each year. I know that the quantitiy is so large, that America can only inspect a fraction of these containers.

I know that the size of a nuclear bomb is quite small. Some of them can fit into a large suitcase.

I know America is an open society, where people are free to move about at will, and move things where they want to.

I know that one small nuclear bomb can do a lot of damage. I know that, a long time ago, the nuclear club was quite small. If we had been nuked in the 1960s, we would have known who did it. I know that, unlike the era I grew up in, the Cold War Era, that today there are a lot more countries that have nuclear technology, so that if someone smuggled one in to the States and set it off, it would be impossible at that point to trace the origin of that bomb so you could hold the owner responsible for the destruction it caused.

I know the Americans would be looking for someone to blame, if Chicago lit up like a Roman Candle. I know the Americans would be fearing that more cities would be targetted, and they would be wondering when and if the bombs would end. I know they could not afford not to respond against someone, if they wanted to have any chance of surviving as a nation.

I know that Russia has a very large nuclear stockpile. I know they have a very educated population, where scientists earn aroung a hundred dollars a month, and like everyone else, are looking for a way to make a living. I know security at many of these nuclear plants in Russia are a joke, because I saw a documentary on it on Canada's national public TV broadcaster, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. I know that stealing material to build a bomb is quite feasible, for some people.

I know that a lot of Muslim countries are very rich, from oil money, and that that is where Al Queda got it's funding, so that they would have plenty of money to try to buy nuclear technology from some poor Russian scientist. I know that just the increase in the amount of money flowing into oil rich Muslim countries is a 500 billion dollar increase, just due to the increased price of oil in the last couple of years.

I know that in a recent poll, 40% of the American population said they thought we were living in the end times. The figure is 60%, if you just poll young Americans, and it is 80%, if you just poll black Americans.

I know that the president of Iran, which is a state that sponsors terrorists, is a radical religious hater of anyone who is not Islamic, and that he has publically said he thinks we are in the end days, and that he would like to speed things along, so that the 7th Imam (sort of an Islamic messiah) can come back quicker. I know that this man has ordered the main street in downtown Tehran to be increased in wideness to accomadate the large crowds expected for the 7th Imam.

So I ask anyone reading this, all this talk about the possibility of the war in the middle east going nuclear at one point, is this all crazy talk? You tell me.

-- October 19, 2006 12:38 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Tim,

Thanks for your nuke comments.

I can now cancel my appointment with my therapist this afternoon.....lol

I agree that the US would probably not strike due to our ethics. However, being right on ethics can casue us to be DEAD wrong as far as outcome.

Is it really ethics, or fear and weakness?? I am not sure.

And what kind of ethics? HOw do ethics relate to a country as ours that was thrusted into a war by the attack of 911?

I am so interested in what you think is a realsitic way to save America and this world, based on your points so very well made?

My thoughts of being the first to pull the switch may not be a good one, but then can you or anyone else offer a real option.

Most of the modern world ( US , parts of Asia, and Europe,) understand and respect the concepts of diplomacy and negotiations.

But these desert rats, laugh at it everyday and smack us in the face everyday with placating rhetoric, non-compliance, deception. and agressive defiance.

So, I am serious, what are other viable realistic plans?

To me it would take some sort of momumental wake up call-- but what do you think?

-- October 19, 2006 2:14 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Okie,

I read your request for me to ask the General something, however, the computer deleted half the characters. I am not sure of your question.

Hope you answer in next 30 minutes or so as I will be leaving to get to this dinner meeting.
Roger,

Exactly, what would you want me to ask the General about his debriefing. He has explained his debriefing in detail in his book, "Saddam's Secrets." I am not sure what else to ask about this topic.

From what he said, our security sources took him very seriously. I don't think he would be speaking for the Republican Fund raising, if they didn't.

All,

Glad to see everyone is back on track with dinar discussion and Iraq security issues and ours.

Hoping all is well with everyone here.

Laura

-- October 19, 2006 4:53 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Laura....
Here's my question again....hope you get it in time...

Laura....

If you get a chance, ask the general if he knows how many $US the Iraqis took with them from Baghdad to Syria just before the war started. Might be an interesting figure!

-- October 19, 2006 8:19 AM ∞

-- October 19, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

---

Kevin Brancato wrote:

Administrative Note

I don't like to intervene on this board, but I will when I have to, and I will do so decisively.

As is my right, I've just deleted most of the recent "revaluation" comments containing little but foul language expressed at the third-grade level. A few of those comments remain; after all, the false revaluation comment received a significant amount of attention from elsewhere. Anyway, the comments by "roaches" were deleted. This makes the formerly infested part of the board hard to read, but so be it.

The rest of you can settle your differences in a civilized fashion, and I'll leave you alone.

--Kevin Brancato

-- October 19, 2006 5:32 PM ∞

---

Professor X wrote:

Busted Again wrote:

"I find it amazing that so many people are convinced of their own intelligence."

----The fact that my paycheck arrives in a Brinks armored truck each week shows me everything I need to know. There might be some lights on upstairs......

Yahoo looks a bit off today, any reason for this? Or perhaps just random happenings?

Posts on another forum indicate that the ISX won't trade for about two weeks. Does anyone have info to refute/corroborate this?

Thanks for the info in advance....

-- October 19, 2006 7:34 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

THANX KEVIN.

ROGER, I havn't posted on here in a couple of weeks, but I will say, the "Real MARK" we see ya at the pig roast. I've been off line, a little mental vacation. Thing's are picking up, Come On R.V.

-- October 19, 2006 7:39 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

ONLY by Pride comes contention

-- October 20, 2006 1:28 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Kevin,
Very good indeed.

MARK,

We all need vacation in one way or the other. Welcome back, I'll be busy myself the coming weeks, but hope to drop in from time to time.

Laura,

No, you're fine, you just answered my question, I just wanted to hear if our intelligence had all his data.

Carole,

Ok, I see where the toe hurts, did some back reading and have come up with what seem to be a lot of fuzz for nothing, well not for you perhaps , but ok.

You had an idea that perhaps it would be a good solution to just nuke the hell out out of that region down there, and take care of the problem once and for all .

I suggested that the Nazis had already tried that idea, to indiscriminately remove (read , kill) unwanted people, and asked you if that's what you are? Well, I asked you to do some soul searching and tell us if hats what you are, or if you are something else.

Your response was very apologetic and explaining.

Then you were silent for quite some time.

Then you came back, backstabbing me, giving me snidy comments, and in general make me smaller.

Now Carole, this is very interesting.

If you don't like me telling you that the Nazis have already tried that, then you simply don't like me telling me that the Nazis did that.

I don't believe that you are disputing the historical fact that the Nazis indiscriminately killed Jews, Gipsy's communists or anything else for that matter, that was in their eyes unwanted people or in the way of their expected progress.

I do believe, that you just can't believe the fact, that you was associated with Nazi thinking.

This is the part you hated, this is the part that blew your mind, Carole, a good ol American, no no, not me.

Carole, until it hits....indiscriminate killings of unwanted people have already been tried , by the Nazis.

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE , OR ARE YOU SOMETHING ELSE?

It's YOUR statement , not mine, so wishing me being from East Ozark or Mars, wont work.

The Nazis "Final Solution" was carried out with the loss of millions of innocent men women and children, that had nothing more to their bag of sins other than being Jewish, or gypsies, Catholics, and a lot of other groups.

Being something other than the "right" kind of people was against the Nazis idea about the white "Arian" race. They were "unter menchen", lower kind of people. Russians were "unter menchen", and their fate was also destined for the gas chambers after they had won the war, and cleansed from Jews.

The whole operation could never had taken place, if not a whole lot of people involved had participated, railroad, personnel, police, government officials, archive workers, everybody involved, so casually joked about the "unter menchen" during the Nazi regime, and so vividly denied ANY participation after the war.

No, no look clean hands.

We have a troubled region, in the Middle East, different people, with ways far different than ours, different language, different culture, and different religion. We can see things differently than they can, and have solutions that in our eyes are far superior in technology, administration, social set up, and fiscal handling .

To just entertain the idea, in order for us, to solve our problem, to just kill them off, and have the problem handled once and for all, would make us Nazis.

This is what I find very very fishy....

1.Statement: Nuke the place....
2.Answer: No, Nazis killed in such a way. Don't.
3.Rebuttal: Your, probably from Mars or East Ozark, your manipulative, have no tact , no respect, convoluted and you should be ashamed questioning a person like me......

The answer that could be perhaps expected would be, -"Well, that might perhaps have been a bit drastic," or -"Your right, well it's easy to let the feelings go " or " yes, we cant be what Nazis are".

Carole, instead, you insist on being right about it. And, this makes you a 15 year old in my eyes, not over 60, your method is to make the person small, a lesser person.

A small powerless , lesser person might very well cave, and not look in the direction you don't want him to look.

Sorry I didn't cave in, the frantic effort to make me look away, made me look even closer.

This is what you don't want to hear.

Casually, between snacks, on your computer, proposed that nuking the whole area down there might solve the problem once and for all.

The casually "so what" attitude about it, is exactly the Nazi way, why bother, they're lesser beings, some rat poisoning, nukes,, flame throwers, line them up shoot them, spray gas, who cares, as long as the problem is solved.

Answer THAT, please don't come back as another 15 year old and tell me how bad I am or make me small for asking it. It's your own statement, not mine.

That is Nazi stuff, like it or not, being upset, about it doesn't help, it is Nazi stuff.

Perhaps this dialogue we have had, ended up with the realization that you actually are a Nazi, and you don't like what you realized. That's called denial.

Maybe some soul searching would do you good after all.

Tim Bitts,

Nuclear weapons. Yes, it's a dilemma, the bomb, being a weapon, is one of the most weird things developed. The bomb will in one way or the other always backfire on the user. It's to a degree questionable if it will even be classified as a weapon, as it will, in the long run hurt both sender and receiver.

Force is justifiable, for the survival of own life, possession, and land.

Force is unfortunately available for minds that kill indiscriminately, and for religious, social or cultural reasons, will justify death to opponents.

Israels destruction (Iran) and Imperialistic Capitalistic Freedom(North Korea), is ideologies, or religions that will find reasons, that will be in tune with their ideal society, and whatever is in the way, will have to fear the bomb.

Will it be a nuclear showdown, perhaps, hope not, but you can probably get a fairly good answer if you go to Israel and look anyone in the eye, and ask them if they want to die.

They may in order to survive, do a preemptive strike. A strike that would never had come if the threat of their survival was never at stake.

N.Korea probably at this moment doesn't have delivery systems to reach N America, but they're working on it. In the eyes, the whole world is after them. They might be nuts enough to start a war on the peninsula, and probably after a lot of deaths, be whipped.

Deaths and destruction that never would have come, had N Korea, decided to make cars and boats instead.

Mankind wants to survive, and that, will always be pondered with, the greatest good for the greatest number, when it comes to sane men.

If there is a situation, where inevitable death will come for hundred people, but 85 will survive, if 15 dies, is the only given solution, you will find volunteers for the 15 number.

N.Korea, and Iran, wants others death, just because they are not what they are.

I could touch base on the Nazi thing here but given the posting above, lets just say, it's covered,... for today. However, same thing.

Sure the long term solution is education, enlightenment, and social and moral conduct that benefit the whole mankind, rather than your own little group. Most places on earth is that way, but I have a hard time seeing any education, or enlightenment in totalitarian states. they own the radio waves.

In the Arab world, there is a slow process, going right now, but they have the opportunity to have the whole worlds communication served to them if they wish. Poor areas, however, can't afford electronic communication. It's just a long process. If there will be a folk up rising in Iran, I cant see it, invasion, or nuke, or it will be a long standoff , time will tell, but if something will happen, it will either be b3ecause if intelligence work, saying the Iranians are so darn close sending a nuke to Israel, that Israel by pure necessity needs to take out the threat.

If Iran or N.Korea, uses the bomb, it will be an effort to take out as many lives as possible, but if the US or Israel used the bomb, I do believe they would be hard pressed to use it on Tehran, or Pyongyang. It will likely be on the nuclear facilities.

The Cold War, was a nuclear standoff, but the goal was not to indiscriminately just kill, even though populated targets was targeted, there was a strategic "what will we win" with every move. Fortunately the Dr Strangelove situation never came to pass. The war planners in both blocks, found out that a tit for tat exchange would fast escalate into a lose lose scenario. No winners could emerge. So it never came to blows.

The basic reasoning for the East Block was the spread of Communism, and the basic reasoning for the West Block was to preserve their way of freedom. You can't spread any of those in a devastated land.

The basic reasoning , that makes these states , N.Korea and Iran, insane, is the goal to just kill off as many as ever possible, the more the better.

For the intended victims, this makes it very justifiable to take these states out in one way or the other ( preferably as humane as possible, if the word humane can be used in war, that is).

Most pathetic is, it would be a war that never would had to come, would they make cars, boats, computers or whatever. They would have been living happily ever after, but it started with this, notion, ...."lets go and kill them."

-- October 20, 2006 2:51 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All,

I just got in from the Republican Fund Raiser with General Georges Sada as their guess speaker.

I drove back to my home in Southern Florida this am.

As it turns out, this is General Sada's first visit to Florida. He and his friend Rev. Terry Law are traveling together and they leave for Michigan tommorrow.

I wasn't able to ask questions of General Sada. The set up was his friend, Rev. Terry Law asked a series of questions of the General and he answered them.

No audience questions were premitted.

Roger,

Your own question about whether General Georges Sada was ever debriefed came up in much detail during this presentation. Here are the highlights:

--Fox News did an interview with General Sada about his claims that wmd went to Syria.

--General Georges Sada testified in from of the House Intelligence Committee due to Fox interview.

--Then House Select Committe Chairman (in Grand Rapid, Michigan) wanted to speak to him on topic too.

--General Sada was then interviewed by FBI, CIA.

--Then Senate Armed Services Council.

The conclusion: Everyone thought that General Georges Sada is a crediable witness and his information correct.

**After the Amman, Jordan terrorist attack 20 tons of chemical weapons were found.
(I was unsure if this attack actually happened, or if the attack was found out before it occurred. Any of you remember?)

General Georges Sada is contending that the chemical weapons (20 tons worth of chemical weapons) are from what Saddam sent to Syria.

Jordan confronted Syria and Syria denied receiving these weapons.

America (under pressure from Jordan and Syria) took an official view that General Sada's testimony while crediable is unverified.

--And this is the official ruling!!.

Okie,

I was unable to ask your question. However, I may have done one better.

After the question and answer period, the General stepped off stage and he went to other side of the stable where the dinner was held.

I got in line (I was number 3). The first two wanted their books signed.

A Republican coordinator stated the General could sign one but he was to go to the table across from the stable that we were in.

Instead, the General (ignored him) and signed the 2nd book too.

At this, the Republican Coordinator again attempted to take him away.

I then spoke up and said, (as they were trying to take him away) General Sada, I have read your book and I have many questions I would like to ask you.

However, what I want is your e-mail.

He took my Ronald Reagan Black Tie and Blue Jeans BBQ Book and he wrote down his e-mail.

He said to write him and he would answer my questions.

General Georges Sada works out of Prime Minister Maliki's office as an advisor.

He is also the President of the National Presbyterian Church in Baghdad and Chairman of the Assembly of Iraqi Evangelical Presbyterian Churches.

General Georges held the position of principal advisor to the former Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi.

Additionally, he acted as the lead consultant for the reconstruction of all three branches of the Iraqi defense system.

I also wanted to share with you all about the story his friend, Rev. Terry Law told.

He said in his last visit to Baghdad, the General picked him up at airport and he had 7 body guards with him and each with ak47 machine guns.

He picked him up (in what I thought he said a body armored car) with body guards in thier cars.

The General drove but before he did, he took out his ak47 gun too and placed it beside him.

In driving the road to Baghdad, the general went from one lane to another. Rev. Law stated he asked him why he was driving this way?

He stated his reply was to keep the terrorist from hitting the car and them.

When they got to Baghdad, the general did not stay on main drive.

He took a quick alley and up and down side streets to get to green zone.

Terry Law states General Sada stated that the terrorist wait until someone working for the government or an American stop at the stop sign or light and then they ambush them. He stated, "My friend, I work for the government and you are an American!"

General Sada states that the country is comprised of 60 percent Shiite; 20 percent Sunni; and 20 percent Kurds.

In addition, Georges Sada states that Saddam was planning a terrorist attack on Washington D.C. with 100 tons of his chemical weapons. He also wanted to see nuclear weapons go off inside USA and car bombs inside USA. This information is on a tape that USA intelligence has on Saddam. Saddam is the one speaking and General Georges Sada was asked to translate the tape for state department as it was in arabic.

Well, what do you all think?

Laura

-- October 20, 2006 4:01 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Roger!!!

I normally don't get involved in your discussions with others; however, this time I think your last response that I just read, is trying to pick a fight.

I did not get the impression that Carole was saying nuke these people just to nuke them.

I think, she is believing that America is fighting a war in that we are losing many servicemen.

The homeland is no longer safe from nuclear attack from terrorists.

The dilemma is..do we let them strike use first with nuclear weapons or do we strike first?.

How many American lives do we lose before-- we make a nuclear choice-- like Harry Truman?.

Roger, you're calling Carole a Nazi (a label) is an attack on a person's character.

I believe this attack is unneccessary.

I believe, she is merely raising an intellectual discussion about the situation of a nuclear solution.

Ask her and find out.

Carole,

Count to a 100 before you respond to Roger.

Oh, and by the way, on Patton, he would not like the nuclear option because he stated it takes the glory out of war.

To the victor belongs the spoils/glory. Read his book or see his movie to see the answer to this question. Patton would have fought hand to hand combat!

Laura

-- October 20, 2006 4:45 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Laura....

Thanks for sharing your information about the General...very interesting!

-- October 20, 2006 5:46 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Laura:
My question is why has Uncle George not allowed the tape with Saddam to be played on the air? I believe that would shut up the doubters of WMD and his intentions for its use once and for all. It definitely would be a one up on the far left....

Roger, I believe never called Carole a Nazi. He stated it was Nazi like thinking....which it was and is....the purpose or reason can always be justified. Even I can come up with some justification for doing so...but it still does not change the outcome...I believe Roger understood her frustration at the middle east situation and that is understandable.....but I don't believe roger has asked anyone to cowtowel to his opinion, and don't have a clue where this idea came from.
There may come a time, when a nuclear strike on a nation with ill intent toward other nations or nations is required to prevent the future death of millions. But the nations who have the ability to destroy the earth, not just present life,have a tremendous responsibility to perserve our earth as long as we can. To think that the shooter will not reap the results of their nuclear launch borders on not fully understanding the destructive power of the nuclear warhead.

Presently we have not reached the stage of launch mode.I believe other options are still available, and negoiation is only one of many.

-- October 20, 2006 7:49 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl….

Good input on the nuke question. I think a lot of people forget that after WW2 the allies figured out it was better to point their enemies in a more productive direction than continue to kick them further back into the cave. Reason prevailed and Japan and Germany were brought back to an upright position and are now positive members of the world community. Nukes are still the weapon of last resort and nobody wants to use them.

The allies are using the same approach in our war with the Islamic Militants. We prefer to get them going in a different direction. Believe it or not, we’re winning the war and this is driving the enemy to a desperate situation….the militants are losing their power base and they know it. This is a tough battle but I know we will prevail using conventional weapons and diplomacy.

The flash point is Israel…..If the Militants back them into a no-win situation….then Israel will nuke them. Cooler heads must prevail in this part of the world.

-- October 20, 2006 8:40 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All:

Well, Well, someone is playing a sick joke.

The "itching" posting was not mine.

DOn't know what to do about something like that.

Laura,
Thank you for understanding my postings. Understanding does not need to be agreeing, but I don't think Roger gets that.

Now, I am counting to 100.

98....99...100.....

Roger,

First time---shame on you!!

Second time----shame on me!!

Carl,

What the Nazis did was an ethnic cleansing. Very Very bad!!! No idea I would ever entertain--at all.

One big difference between what the Nazis did and our Middle East situation is that the Jews were not supporting terriosm or even the likes of it.

Their theocracy did not mandate that they take over the world and destroy all who would not bow down to their Jehovah.

I have tried to discuss my views. Some got it some did not.....

Can you name other options that have not been tried and failed?

That's all I'm asking for?

-- October 20, 2006 8:54 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Vic,

Behave yourself!!!

The posting on itching has your fingerprints all over it!!!

All:

I'll explain alter....

-- October 20, 2006 9:00 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

ALL;

OOps! TYPO

I'll explain LATER....

-- October 20, 2006 9:02 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Laura,

My husband is a "Patton" fan. It's funny, he said the same thing.

How exciting that you got to meet and get the Generals e-mail!!

Let us know if he responds!!

That would be neat.

I agree that it would have been great if the taping could have been made officially public. For sure Colin Powell and our President would have appreciated it.

Can't help but wonder what spin the media would have put on it.

-- October 20, 2006 9:10 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The plan for Iraq is better defined in the "International Compact With Iraq". It's a draft copy and 18 pages long....but worth a read.

http://www.iraqcompact.org/documents/ICI%20Outline%20Document%20-%20PG%20Version%20-%205%20Sep.pdf

-- October 20, 2006 9:13 AM ∞

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freeafter8 wrote:

as has been said before and will be said again. When? when will the money hit. This roller coaster of politics and war is driving me nuts. Sure I want the troops home and for all of this to be over first and foremost but along with that i find my teeth worn from chomping at the bit. Its got to be soon.

-- October 20, 2006 10:31 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This could be a step forward if they don't back peddle on it.

=======================================================================================
Makkah Document aims to end Iraqi sectarian violence
By Mariam Al Hakeem

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makkah, 20 October 2006 (Gulf News)
Senior Shiite and Sunni leaders in Iraq started talks to end sectarian conflict in their homeland.

About 24 leaders are taking part in the two-day meeting held near Haram Mosque in Saudi Arabia.

A formal endorsement of the 'Makkah Document', drafted at a preparatory meeting held in Jeddah last week, is expected during the meeting.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-20-10-2006&article=11209

-- October 20, 2006 10:56 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Carl,

By Uncle George, are you meaning President Bush? Or the former president? The tape and documents from my understanding are with the national security people. The tape is in arabic and General Georges Sada was asked by intelligence to translate it.

As to why the USA government will not release it, is a question and I certainly do not know the answer to that.

Good morning to all.

Laura

-- October 20, 2006 11:08 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Laura,

I flew back from Washington DC yesterday reading Georges book. Good stuff. It was great that you got to hear him speak.

All

Been gone for a week but logged on to notice the seizure of the site by the vulgar. Glad to see them gone.

-- October 20, 2006 11:33 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Hello Gang...

Just finished all of my required traning and am headed to the sandbox... Will report any good news when found!

Outlaw

-- October 20, 2006 12:41 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Looks like...
Iran is having one of their dogs, Sadr stir up things in a little town just outside Baghdad....I believe this is Irans way of performing a litmus test for the Iraqi Police and military, to measure just how they respond to an uprising of the militias....
So far the Iraqi government has failed to show any thing that would create confidence in the local populace.

So far it looks like the Iraqi PM has a yellow streak problem...

I hate to admit this, but this takes me back to a time in vietnam when the southern vietnam soldiers would not stand and fight, and the only ones holding the line was us yanks...
This eventually changed somewhat...but you never really knew how most would respond in battle...

Turtle....Okie....Outlaw....give us your opinion as to what we are seeing here with this Sadr uprising...

-- October 20, 2006 12:46 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: Just read your response. Taking off for a few days. I'll respond later. Thanks.

-- October 20, 2006 12:50 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: Just read your response. Taking off for a few days. I'll respond later. Thanks.

-- October 20, 2006 12:51 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Chris,
I hope all the vulgar ones are gone, but there might be one still hanging around. I got a nasty one this morning posing as me.

All:

Years ago, I got Nextel phones for my business and my daughters. We had the ones like walkie/talkies.

One of my daughters was standing in a crowd when I passed through a message concerning female personal hygeine matters. The whole room heard it!!!

She almost fainted from embarrassment and couldn't figure out how to turn off the speaker fast enough.

We laughed about this for years.

LAst night one of my daughters said that one of my son-inlaws found this site and mentioned to her that he discovered me on the site.

SO, this morning when I woke up and read that nasty posting...a while later, I thought I had figured it out and it could have been my s0n-in-law Vic.

But he swears it wasn't him.

Hmmmmm!Can't promise you it wasn't!!

BUt none the less, there is really no need or welcome for this.

-- October 20, 2006 12:56 PM ∞

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Bill1 wrote:

I'm heading to Iraq in a few months for a year. Just got an intell brief the other day and was able to speak with the individual giving the brief afterwards who mentioned something about a new currecy coming out to replace the current one--mainly because of people like us who hold such tremendous amounts of IQD outside of the country.

When I asked how he knew this and where he was getting his information from he simply said from his contacts in-country. My question is, "Has anyone currently in country heard about anything like this?!?..." It sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me, but stranger things have happened.

On another note... revaluing the Dinar would go a long way to winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people who have lost a generous amount of faith in what we're doing in Iraq. Many poor people are still joining forces with the insurgents in an effort to support their families. If the dinar was revalued and had real purchasing power it would: 1) Give the Iraqi people renewed hope for a favorable outcome to this conflict; 2) Stop people from going over to the side of the insurgency as a way of earning enough money to take care of their families--and, might even work as a catalyst to cause Iraqis to turn in insurgents for fear of them derailing their new found wealth and better way of life.

Even a modest revaluation of say, "1 IQD:1/2 cent USD" would be huge and well within reason. From there let the open market decide it's future value.

JMT

Bill1

P.S. Charlie Daniels says "Hi" to Outlaw!

-- October 20, 2006 1:08 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Carole,

I saw that post this morning. If it was your son-in-law then you should sit down and calmly talk to him before you slap him silly!

Bill1

I agree with you that RV would cause the Iraqi people to focus on making a living. The Iraqi people are very industrious. That's what I like about them. I've been to other countries where the Arabs have few responsibilities other than breeding.

It appears that the general consensus among us RV guessers is that Iraq will wait until everything is perfect before the RV.

This was the first I've heard of another currency but I'm not plugged into those who would know.

-- October 20, 2006 1:38 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl....

Our buddy Sadr is someone who bears watching. He should have been strung up long ago. I'm convinced he's in it up to his eyeballs with Iran. Maliki protects him so I suspect both of them have a hidden adgenda. The town he took over is now back under our control but under normal circunstances he should be tried for treason.

I think other people are watching every move both of these guys make. If either one of them gets too far out of line I believe they will be replaced or killed. The stakes are too high at this point to let either of them get in the way of our goals for Iraq.

-- October 20, 2006 2:50 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

freeafter8:

I would not look for an RV this year. I stand by 2007+.

Bill1

I have not heard of a new currency being offered. It does not make sense to me logically.

It would cost the GoI millions of dollars to issue new currency. A new currency may compromise future western investment. The G8, World Bank,and IMF may see this action as further instability. The IMF would undoubtedly revise their IMF country report issued in August 2006.

The NID currently has confidence of the Iraqi people. To issue new currency now would further undermine its creditabilty along with the creditability of the GoI and the CBI.

We think the NID has little purchasing power, a new currency would purchase much less. Until I see credible evidence of such, I do not believe it.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 20, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Bill 1.......

You have to be careful around the security guys, sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.

They repeat what they've read from a manual or heard from one of their buddies and most of the time it has no relationship to the truth.

-- October 20, 2006 3:16 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Bill 1......

Forgot to say good luck on your new venture in the sandbox and keep your head down....

-- October 20, 2006 5:25 PM ∞

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investorsiraq.com is gay wrote:

IIF board is totally gay, full pf scammers, even the admin are scammer dinar pushers.

BEWARE!!!!!!

-- October 20, 2006 7:35 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

New Currency? Nope, I haven't heard anything about them making anything new or doing anything with the old new for that matter. Of course, I'm outside that circle but I think I'd hear if there was talking of creating a new one.

Sadr - The one thing my friends agree on without question is how nice it would be for Sadr's thugs to come out in public and give us any excuse. The only thing new is now old news, the insurgents know our elections are coming up and they are selling out to create a body count. There has been an exceptionally high number of good snipers and professionally made IEDs to help boost that number. The Mahdi has decided to make its move again. All just in time for our elections. Wasn't Sadr's last big move just prior to the 2004 Presidential elections in the US? I don't see the Iraqnian ties as even being a question anymore. Regardless of your political leanings, this also tells how the enemy wants the US elections to go. Its no coincedence.

-- October 20, 2006 7:40 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Looks like the nasty posting using my name is gone--thank you, whoever removed it.

-- October 20, 2006 8:02 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

I read the comapct report!

Wow! What an agenda. More so, the highest levels of efficiency and committment would be needed to accomplish even half of it.

Of course, page 15, is , in my estimation, dealing wiht the realities. The "if" page.

More power to them if they can get this Compact to reality. Almost takes on the attributes of a untopia.

As I was reading, I couldn't help but ponder how many of these subjects and referendums would help us here to improve our own society and nation.

Are you aware of any other country newly establishing democracy and recovering from the ravages of war successfully implementing a compact such as this.?

It would be nice if they had a model to look to.

-- October 20, 2006 8:30 PM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Iran President: Israel Will Soon Disappear
TEHRAN, Oct. 20, 2006

(CBS/AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

Ahmadinejad also called Israeli leaders a "group of terrorists" and threatened any country that supports the Jewish state, as millions of Iranians took to the streets for anti-Israel protests.

"You imposed a group of terrorists ... on the region," Ahmadinejad said, addressing the U.S. and its allies. "It is in your own interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum. Don't complain tomorrow."

"Nations will take revenge," he told hundreds of thousands of supporters at a pro-Palestinian rally in the capital Tehran.

The frequent saber rattling by the Iranian president has raised growing concerns in Israel about Iran's nuclear program, reports CBS News correspondent Robert Berger. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said this week that Iran would have to pay a price, hinting broadly that Israel might launch a pre-emptive strike against the nuclear facilities. Some analysts say the only way Israel could launch a successful strike against Iran's well-fortified facilities, is to use its own tactical nuclear weapons.

Iranians "have to be afraid" of the consequences of their intransigence," Olmert told reporters on his way home from Moscow. "They have to understand that if they object to every compromise, there will be a price to pay."

On Friday, Ahmadinejad called the U.N. Security Council and its decisions "illegitimate" as long as it was dominated by the U.S. and Britain.

"What sort of Security Council is this? The whole world knows that the U.S. and Britain are enemies of the Iranian nation," he said.

The United States and Britain — along with France, Russia and China — have power to veto any Security Council measures.

"The time is over for such logic. Under such circumstances, the Security Council is illegitimate and its decisions are illegitimate," Ahmadinejad said, drawing chants of "Death to America" from the crowd.

Ahmadinejad has said the Nazis' slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II was a myth, and that Israel should be wiped off the map or moved to Germany or the United States.

He warned Friday that the U.S. and other supporters of Israel were accomplices in Israeli attacks against Palestinians.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/20/world/main2110011.shtml

-- October 21, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Israel's Olmert: Action against Iran might be necessary because of nuclear threat

October 19, 2006 (JERUSALEM) - Israel's prime minister delivered his strongest comments yet on Iran's nuclear program, warning that Tehran would have "a price to pay" if it does not back down from its atomic ambitions and hinting that Israel might be forced to take action.

Israel rejects Tehran's claim that its nuclear program is peaceful, designed solely to produce energy. In the past, Israel has said it would not lead a campaign against Iran's nuclear program, but would act in concert with world powers that are similarly worried.

But with Iran rejecting various compromise proposals and insisting on enriching uranium -- a process key to developing nuclear weapons -- Olmert been raising the stakes. He said Israel cannot reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran.

"There comes a time when you have to do damage control," he said. "A red line must be drawn that cannot be crossed," Olmert added, without elaborating. "Time isn't standing still," he said "and perhaps there will be a need to do something in the future."

Israel considers Iran to be the greatest threat to its survival. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for the Jewish state's destruction, and Iran already has missiles capable of carrying payloads to Israel.

Ahmadinejad shrugged off the threat of U.N. sanctions Thursday, saying his nation would not give up any of its nuclear program.

The crowd interrupted his speech with the chant: "Nuclear energy is our right!"

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=nation_world&id=4677996

-- October 21, 2006 1:00 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All

SOmething doesn't fit.
Olmert, who led Isreal on a wild goose chase in Lebanon, returning home from "Moscow"??? On the heel of this Iranian demon making the ultimate threats to Isreal, leaving the country no cholce but to consider massive aggressive plans?

SOMETHING FEELS WRONG HERE.

Moscow has and never will be an Isreali sympathizer.

-- October 21, 2006 1:27 AM ∞

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drivebyposter wrote:

1) It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare.

2) One kind word can warm three winter months." (Japanese Proverb)

3) "We are not hypocrites in our sleep." (William Hazlitt)

4) Intelligence is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes.

5) The problem with experience is that you don't it get until just after you need it.

6) There is never a wrong time to do the right thing.

7) THE DANGER OF COMPLIMENTS

I was showing my wife the high number of hits on my web page and some of the "fan" letters I'd received containing compliments.

She took it all in and then said, "Just remember, the very same people who praised Jesus also crucified Him."

8) "There is great comfort and inspiration in the feeling of close human relationships and its bearing on our mutual fortunes -- a powerful force, to overcome the "tough breaks" which are certain to come to most of us from time to time." (Walt Disney)

9) Fall seven times, stand up eight.

10) "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. It comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. ~ John Wayne

11) A youth becomes a man when the marks he wants to leave on the world have nothing to do with tires.

12) Life Sayings from Country Folks

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.

Don't skinny dip with snapping turtles.

Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.

Forgive your enemies. It messes with their heads.

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, assuming you want to catch flies.

It don't take a very big person to carry a grudge.

You can't unsay a cruel thing.

When you wallow with pigs, expect to get dirty.

-- October 21, 2006 2:17 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl, Robert, Bill1, Rob N, Outlaw, Roger, Laura and the rest of the board;

Rather than discussing the esoteric world of nuclear war "over there" and if it is justified to use nukes to protect Israeli lives from annihilation, you really ought to be concerned about your own lives and your loved ones.

Watch:

“Stakes” - A New Chilling Campaign Ad From The GOP
From the RNC:

http://www.gop.com/Multimedia/MediaPlayer.aspx?ID=1136&TypeID=2

Because it is your lives on the line first....

Easy Link to view the Ad (already embedded in a web page, just click "Watch the new ad"):

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/stakes-a-new-and-too-true-campaign-ad-from-the-gop

To quote what one eloquent Conservative poster (on the page with the Ad on it, above) said about this ad:

"The democrats will have a tough time explaining that this ad is spreading fear when all this ad is doing is showing the number one threat to this country. Ok, number two if you count the Democrats. Too effing bad. For once, the GOP is showing an ad that doesn't say anything about a scandal. It shows Islamic muslim terrorists bragging about how badly they are going to destroy western society. The Democrats are exposed as weak, simpering pandering Islamic apologists, and they insist they have a “new direction” for our country. They do! The direction is facing the east. The direction is toward a group of Islamic terrorist thugs who will stop at nothing to kill every last man woman and child in America.

The GOP needs to keep running these ads…more graphic, more intense, and just as truthful. Then, add Pelosi’s photo and her quotes of submission to Islam. And then Harry Reid’s abject surrender to the threat by insisting they aren't real. And the rest of them, all comfortable in their little worlds, hoping for control, and not giving two shits if we live or die, as long as they can hide somewhere until they can negotiate their way back into power, albiet doing the bidding of the new Washington Clerics."

Sara.

-- October 21, 2006 8:22 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,
Thanks for providing the link to the Makkah Document and the meeting that is soon, or probably has taken place.

The 10 point document is supposedly not a political one, but a religious one. It calls for "unity" of all Islamic nations.

The part that I find particularily interesting and possibly very concerning is: the " prohibiting of taking life without a proper reason".

I believe that this is directed at Iraqi's killing Iraqi's.

A "proper reason" according to the Quroan(probably mispelled), is not to follow Allah. This labels a person an infidel and without a very evidential conversion, death is the requirement.

I would hope for peace in the Middle East, as most of the world does. I would hope that the lives and money and committment made by Americans and our government would sustain a lasting gratefullness to the USA, by the Iraqi's that would protect us from the Jihad religious endeavors.

HIstory proves however, that we have never been given the credit for or respected for any

sacrifices, support or money in past benevolent operations to any country in the world thorughout our history.

If I am wrong about this, I would like to be corrected.

In my opinion, as long as religious (Islamic) considerations will be given a "seat at the table", a untied Middle East is only bad news for Israel and the US.

A friend of mine quoted a passage from the Qouran as saying---"embrace the enemy, so by getting close to him you can kill him".

I don't have the location of that passage, but I am looking.

My 2007 New Years resolution to myself is to read the Qouran ( and learn how to spell it!)

-- October 21, 2006 10:10 AM ∞

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Ian wrote:

I have recently purchased some Dinar and a friend of mine told me I could get some good information from this discussion group.

I have been doing some reading the last week or so.

I have one question and one comment to make.

Question: Are there any Dinar dealers who post here?

Comment: Roger, it looks like you didn't need any help from Carole to make you look small. You did very well on your own.

-- October 21, 2006 10:30 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole.....

The five year compact that the US and our friends are implementing in Iraq has a very historical background....it's based on the action that the allies implemented with Japan and Germany after WW2. It worked then and it will work with Iraq.

The basic logic in the plan is that it's better for countries to compete at the business level than the war and killing level.

Of course you still have to operate on the "talk softly..but carry a big stick" plan because you sometimes run into countries like Iran and groups like the Islamic Militants.

-- October 21, 2006 10:41 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole....

Forgot to mention....I think the Mecca document was due to be agreed to very shortly.

Like you, I understand that the Koran allows muslims to kill non-believers that won't bow their head to Islam. During the crusades they tried to impose this belief on a large part of the world and were kicked so far back in the cave that it took a long time for them to see daylight again.

On a positive note, moderate countries like the UAE, have elevated their belief to the point of getting along with everybody and have a better respect for freedom of religion.

Basically the UAE told the muslims, if you don't believe in eating bacon and ham...that's fine...then don't do it, but don't try to impose your belief on other people in our country.

Dubai, in the UAE, is such a nice place to visit I would take short leaves there when working in Saudi Arabia. And yes, I could have a regular breakfast with ham and bacon and later have a shot of my favorite nector...Jim Beam.
Needless to say the UAE is growing by leaps and bounds.

-- October 21, 2006 11:31 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

Thanks so much for your postings. It gives me and I hope alot of others some thread (hopefully eventually--rope) to hang onto.

Is Saudi Arabia prominently Shiites, SUnni's or Kurds, or a blend? I can't remember.

If I remember my history right, it took the Church, to begin to intervene with the crusaders, and dilute and redirect their zealotuous radical indoctrinations. But I think it took a very long time. Sorry, my memory fades,but I think I have the right idea.

Okie, sounds like you have had quite an exciting life--what exactly do you do?

-- October 21, 2006 11:59 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Ian,

Welcome to the group. We get sidetracked, but our common "bond", I think is that we are all holding worthless paper that we all hope will change our financial destinies --sooner than later.
I read something the other day that said most people buy dinars as a way of showing support in rebuilding the Iraqi govt.

I didn't!! And I don't get the sense from many here that was strong motivation.

If it all works out in the end--great for them, and great for us.

I am new to this site. It has been interesting, fun and more than anything very informative.

I don't know if there are any dealers here. I don't think it would give them any advantage. WHy do you ask?

Enjoy!

-- October 21, 2006 12:11 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

I couldn't agree with you more about the crucial threat these coming elections could bring to us, if the Democrats take over power in the HOuse and Senate( which I doubt). I think the GOP is finally taking a definitive and defendable campaign strategy.

The Republican Party is the less of 2 evils. If I thought they would win, I would vote Libetarian, but that would screw things up, like Ross Perot did years ago.

Also, keeping our eye on Nuclear Powers and wanna -be-powers is a very vital factor in taking care of ourselves, as you put it.

No man or nation is an Island...we must pull and keep our heads out of the sand, less we get sideswept.

-- October 21, 2006 12:32 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Okie;
This what you were looking for?
Sara.

Iraqi papers welcome Mecca''s reconciliation declaration

BAGHDAD, Oct 21 (KUNA) - Iraqi newspapers welcomed on Saturday the Mecca reconciliation declaration, agreed upon by a number of Iraqi clerics and sponsored by the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) and Saudi Arabia.

Al-Sabah paper, funded by the Iraqi government, said the 10-points document was approved by Al-Sistani and that Iraq's Prime Minister Tareq Al-Hashemi headed a governmental-parliamentary delegation to Saudi Arabia on Friday to stress that Sunnis in Iraq want to end fighting in their country.

Al-Sabah's chief editor emphasized that scholars have a significant role in prohibiting fighting by issuing fatwas (edicts), as stated in the document.

Meanwhile, Al-Mada paper considered the signing of 24 Iraqi scholars on a document that prohibits killing an effort that can change many things, saying it came at a time when everyone is agreeing on the failure of previous strategies to stop violence.

Al-Dustoor's chief editor Basim Al-Sheikh said in the paper's editorial that the document must not stay "ink on paper", but should be translated into actions that spread love and defeat "the sick hearts" that forgot God, became "controlled by Satan," and neglected the wise teachings of Islam.

On Friday, Sunni and Shiite Iraqi clerics signed a declaration in Mecca rejecting sectarian violence and calling for peace between different religious sects in Iraq.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=914943

-- October 21, 2006 3:07 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Carole.
Glad you see it, too.
I just hope the American public will, as well.

Okie, sorry I forgot to address you in the first post I did on this page.. I didn't mean to overlook you.. I forgot turtle, too.. and a few others.. there are lots of good posters, old and new..

Sara.

-- October 21, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole....

The majority in Saudi Arabia are Sunni. They have a minority of shi'ites that they treat as second class citizens. For sure they don't like having a shi'ite country on their Northern border with strong ties to Iran.

I've worked most of my life as a Project Manager in the area of systems and instruments. This work has allowed me to work and live in Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East including Iraq.

One truth I've learned about muslims is the fact that the radical militant types are a lost cause due to the brainwashing they've received from some whacked out Imam at the Mosque.

They've declared war on all Americans with the goal of killing all of us. Despite what you hear from the liberal press....we're winning the battle and will prevail. Since they started this war, and won't back off, I think we're fully justified in protecting ourselves. If that includes killing more of them....then so be it.

-- October 21, 2006 3:57 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara.......

Very good to see you back at T&B...we missed you!

Thanks for the information.

-- October 21, 2006 4:01 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Okie: I like your attitude.

My impression of Arabs is that they are not as impressed by "compassion" that is so valued in Europe and America. They tend to respect strength more than we do. And they despise weakness. Here is an old Arab proverb for you: "A falling camel gathers many knives."

-- October 21, 2006 4:54 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Sara,

Welcome back. I missed you. Did you get my e-mails?

Laura

-- October 21, 2006 6:57 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi Everyone,

this is carole's #5 daughter. I'm the one that got her to invest in the Dinar's. Latest news I've heard from my investor is that his Oil Company link say's tnat most sites are quiet now due to the fact that the Dinar is being reassessed by Iraqi"s financial Leaders so that it can go on the market at a good rate $1.75 or higher after Ramadan is over. Has anyone heard something similiar to that. Did anyone buy Lebanese money when Israel attack them and if you so did you make a profit because now its up again.

-- October 21, 2006 8:43 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

I am in a period of very much activity in my business, I might for a couple of months not be able to post as often, but I stick in my head as often as I can.

Ok where do we stand.

Carole,

You are welcome to post anything you like, that is the charm of free speech. You can take any stand you like, you can have any religious, political or or cultural standpoint. It's your choice.

However, if you have ideas about mass extinction, don't expect to be unchallenged.

I did challenge you very heavily on that point.

Your response was personal attack on me.

That happened.

Nothing else. Who you are?, no need to answer.

Laura Parker.

Wow, great, you seem to be one of the few that we know of that actually have a line to the upper echelons of the Iraqi government. Would be great if you could cultivate that contact you have.

When it comes to the Dinars, it is related, but he seems though to be in a different field. Safety and Security.

I'm sure you would be able to snap up something though.

Yes, I kind of assumed that we (our intelligence service) know where the WMD went, just don't know what we're doing with this knowledge.

Outlaw,

Welcome back to the crowd, I thought you had sand over you ears and was unable to dig yourself out. We sent panhandler out looking for you, but seems you were able to dig yourself out. I thought you was to be in Iraq by the 5th this month, but , if I got it right, you had some training instead, and now, you're going to Iraq??? Hope I got it right.

Regarding Dinars,

What's more frustrating than waiting around for something, being kicked down and lifted up by endless rumours, predictions (me including) and so far always....nothing.

I think one of the big frustration is that we have big forces there, but are not dealing with the root causes of the situation in Iraq, that will delay, postpone or just outright stop the economical development of this country, thus a revaluation of the Dinar, thus making us money.

IT IS NOT OUR COUNTRY NO MORE.

We have taken it, and giving it back. From the point the new Iraqi constitution was in place, and the new permanent people elected government was in place. The official, flag is the Iraqi flag, not Stars and Stripe.

We are now guests there. No more no less.

Now comes the interesting questions, if we are not in control, if we are not occupying any longer, and if the land is in turmoil.

What exactly is our role there?

Can we leave, no, can we stay, no.

WHO IS RUNNING IRAQ.

The Iraqis. There is a lot of pressure on the Iraqis, doing things achieving things, consultations, and sometimes hard word from the US administration, lot of helpers, lot of consultants, lot of outside involvement.

I get the picture that the Iraqis are completely overwhelmed by "buzz" from IMF, UN, World Bank, the coalition forces, runners from the US Embassy, official visits, and strong words within closed doors. Threat of deadlines and possible pullouts. Finance and investors screaming loud demanding immediate business.

In the end, it doesn't matter t all.

IT'S IRAQIS RUNNING THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

Can they run it? No, they're not in control. It's kind of a joke, tragic one but nevertheless. An outright ethnic cleansing is taking place. The Iraqi forces are undependable, and the only dependable forces are the coalition forces, that in numbers is mainly US forces.

So, if we are not wanted by the Iraqis, but are , by the Iraqi's urged to stay, because the security situation is not in hand, then what exactly is the purpose of the forces being there.

Well if the Iraqis themselves are not able to keep the security, and we are asked to stay, to keep the security, and there is no security on the streets, the conclusion is that the intended use of the coalition forces to keep the security is not used.

IF THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT IS RUNNING IRAQ, NEED OUR SECURITY, THEY HAVE NO SECURITY, AND IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE STREETS, THEN WHAT IS WRONG HERE?

If the Iraqis themselves are running Iraq, it can be understood that our forces can not operate like under the formal occupation, and do the Falluja style operations, where we do our own planning. Orders have to come from somewhere.

White house, can't do that no more.

So for the US President this will be a very embarrassing step, either bypass a peoples elected government and do it things our way, or be there and get orders from the Iraqi government.

As no real effort is made to order fully capable and willing forces to deal with the security situation there, then one might ask, who is in that Iraqi Government?

The most feared and by far the biggest militia is the AlSad'r's militia. So big and powerful that yesterday, it could go into one town, take complete control, and give the town back to Iraqis ordinary security forces, just to show it's strenght.

This militia, responsible for fifty, hundreds of deaths every day, is doing in fact a routine ethnic cleansing, as in Bosnia, Rwanda and Cambodia.

Part of the Iraqi regime, have elected members of the AlSad'r faction.

So, one part of the Iraqi Government is in facto the same people that are bringing about an ethnic cleansing.

IN WHAT WAY IS THE WHOLE IRAQI GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBLE FOR ATTROCITIES COMMITED BY A PART OF THE GOVERNMENT.

Fully.

Any member of a Government can not plea innocence, and still claim being a ruling Government, in the interest of the whole people.

Either remove the part of the government that is not in line with freedom, but is in line with other agendas. Their presence in the Iraqi government is false, only a pretense, to cover their own acts, and make sure the government will not oppose their activities. They have no interest at all in the welfare of all Iraqi's, but is interested only in their world view, where Sunnis can not exist.

Or remove the Iraqi Government, go back to regular occupation, clean up the militias, and don't stop this time, until job is well done. THEN, think about government.

Either way will not be easy, but as it sits right now, a genocide going on, Iraq Government is completely paralyzed, and our forces sitting idle, being taken pot shots at daily, from snipers, is not going to solve the situation.

Genocides are never taken lightly afterwards, and I can just see the most obviously question ordinary people will ask, no matter what political side they're on.

-"How come this genocide could take place, right under our nose, we were there?

-- October 21, 2006 8:56 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

5th daughter,

Give mom a hug, she might need one on occasion.

I would say, please don't put your hopes on a reval to 1.75 or thereabouts. It's completely unrealistic. The value of the Dinar is in fact very undervalued, as it has no buying power anywhere. That is something we all can see, and are banking on a reval based on that.

We all, like you are hoping for as good reval as possible, and please don't take me wrong, if a 1,75 comes, I'll take it gladly, and will probably cash in, doing some kind of dance all the way to the bank.

A future value of 1.75 might very well be possible, but that's years down the road, and an opening of the Dinar would not probably be in that range.

ANY estimation is that, your 1.75, as your neighbours on 0.83, an estimation, as it's true value , as with any other currency, can only be realized when traded on the open market.

From the latest census we got on this post, a 1-15 cents reval, seems to be most real, it was some time ago, this figure was kicked around, but still today, i think that is the most realistic figure. I would be glad to be wrong on this point, and have the 1.75 that you are talking about, but in my view,( take it or leave it) naa.

You should also know that a lot of Ramadans have come and gone since the Dinar was pegged, and as far as I know, there is no bigger indications that there is a reval in the mix right now. Again, it might happen overnight, but no bigger signs are in the sky.

I'm sure you have followed this a little bit with high interest, and you as well as me and everybody and his brother are trying to make sense or see signs or read into any report, that a reval is coming, or is imminent.

Rumors have been pretty flourishing on this subject, and I might have been taken by one or two at times, (well not the obvious one, where kids are invading the sites, having fun, just saying anything to get people going on the subject), so even if it seems to be an insider thing from a nephew that knows a sisters husband that is sitting on the CBI board, don't go for it.

Even things that I read in articles will on occasion be altered as times goes by. I did for example, some time ago spent quite some time reading about the Iraq, loan forgiveness program the timetable set up with IMF and CBI, and had from a couple of sites seen the data that this was suppose to be handled before 07.

I ran across a couple of other articles that basically said the same thing except now the figure was changed from 07 to 08.

After a while you just give up, reach for the coffee, watch a movie, and realize that it will happen when it happens.

-- October 21, 2006 9:37 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

What in the heavens and earth, haven't seen you in a while, had a ot of wonderings where you have been, lot of postings form people wondering the same.

I would really like you to know that you are a part of this blog, and if you're ready to butt horns, and discuss the Dinars, lady, lets go.

Let me just give you something for starters....HUUUUUUUUUUUG.

Ok, now when the social stuff is taken care of, back to business.

I can see you brought in the posting about the signing of a treaty over there.

Any and all effort to stop the blodletting is appreciated, any agreement in the peace direction will immediately affect the Dinar situation. My doubts though, on the actual implementation of it.

So far, anything that has been signed, have not been respected, Malaki have for over six months, tried with the "talk option" and as we see it today, the situation have escalated to the point where neither our forces, or the Iraqi forces are in control, of the street in Baghdad.

The groups are talking peace, but are slitting of the neck of each other. If this treaty will be implemented, well, I believe it when I see it.

-- October 21, 2006 9:53 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Bill1,

New Currency because people are sitting on huge amount currencies out side of Iraq. Don't sound like a plausible condition to exchange currency.

I don't have hard numbers, but as the Dollar is a world currency, there would not be a reason to exchange currency because a lot of the currency exists outside the country.

The Euro currency is a stateless currency.

Lets say they were replacing the currency because there is a lot of currency out side the country, well, that means that all the currency has to be exchanged, so the only thing we would do is to exchange it with the new currency.

What difference does that do, we still hold the currency, to the same approximate value as we bought it, and if they decided to call 1000 Dinars, a new name, 1000 Iraqi Credits, change the bills from blue to green, the only operation they would be involved in would be paper swapping.

If a unit of currency is out side of the Iraqi border, doesn't matter if it is in the US reserve vault or in your safety box.

Every time you invest in a country's currency, your money that you bought the currency for, is now part of that country's economy.

You have in fact propped up that economy, by removing some of their currency, and injected foreign currency. Making their currency more valuable, ( well Iraq is artificially held in rock bottom)

Anyone with a sane mind and at least one semester of finance in his college education would see that any currency bought up outside of a country, will be a straight investment into that country.

So to "take care of the problem" to me is just a ridiculous statement.

It would be the same magnitude of logic for a gas company, having a board meeting and try to figure out the "problem" with their gas stations.

-"Well, if we have a lot of gas stations, the only thing that will happen is that people will come and fill up their gas tank, with our gas......how can we put an end to it?"

-- October 21, 2006 10:20 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ian,

Thankyou for your posting, well if you think size matter , ok. about dealers, no not knowingly, as far as I understand there is no push for Dinarpurchase, other than the usual pep talk. On occasion there is a posting from someone that asks us to check out a sales site.

To my knowledge, three banks have started buying and selling Dinars, when I bought my Dinars, only dealers was avaliable, I'm above my target range now, and if I buy some more, ( likely) I probably go through banks next time.

-- October 21, 2006 10:31 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Don't be deceived. I don't think this is the Ssrah that use to post here before. The Sarah that I know would not write her sentences in a way that would not show profanity. Sarah would not use the word S--T but might use the word feces. This is an impostor.

-- October 22, 2006 12:48 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Willie,

I was thinking the same thing about the Sarah post.

Laura

-- October 22, 2006 1:04 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

OKIE: LEAVIN IN THE MORNING FOR OUR PROPERTY IN PHUKET. . WILL LEAVE A JIM BEAM SHRINE FOR YOU. . PH

ALL: SEE YA NEXT MONTH. . "WTDH"

-- October 22, 2006 1:35 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

You have to turn in your fingerprints, DNA, bloodgroup and a copy of your drivers licene together with your SS#. There seems to be some nagging thought if you are the "real" Sara or not.

I say you are.

People chenge, we were the same person as when we were born, but we change in life.

Tell you what, this might be the real tester.

Laura, you have the "real" Saras e-mail.

Ask her a question, via e-mail, only you know, Sara, call back on the blog and say what it was, Laura, confirm it.

Laura, if you get hold of Sara on the e-mail, and she says this poster is is not her, then it's blown.

If the "real" Sara don't answer on the e-mail but are alive and well on the blog. Then it's also blown.

If Sara, confirms what Laura asked, or told her, only the "real" Sara vould then know.

This will be interesting.

My bet, yes it's Sara, if not, keep the hug, no extra charge.

-- October 22, 2006 2:26 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Whata bummer, it's going so sloooooooooow. Just read an article about Iraqi Oil. The Iraq oil minister now says, that he hope to complete the oil contracts by the END OF NEXT YEAR.

I was sincerely hoping that as fast as the Hydrocarbon Laws was passed, the oilcompanies was lined up knocking on the door. Starting exploration, and rebuilding of the oilfields, pretty quick, and be up and runing and pumping, by the middle of next year.

Now theyre saying that the contracts hopefully will be done by the end of next year.

Seems like we have another two or three years of blogging before we have any real movement.

They sure dont have running shoes issued with their suits.

-- October 22, 2006 2:44 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Okie. :)

===

Laura and Willie;

As for the post.. I was quoting from a fellow on that site.. I said, QUOTE:

"To quote what one eloquent Conservative poster (on the page with the Ad on it, above) said about this ad:"

UNQUOTE

It is there on the post, check it and the quote which is on the website (I gave the link):

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125647

They are not my words.. I just thought the fellow covered the bases so well I didn't wish to bother redoing the points myself.
And I did edit the post quite a bit.. I removed an entire paragraph... but.. err.. obviously I didn't edit it enough.
I am glad he doesn't sound like me.. at least you know me well enough to know. :)

===

Roger;

Thanks for the Huggg. I appreciate your social grace.. :)

I, too, hope the moderate Muslim efforts will bear good fruit.

Just issuing their statements far and wide condemning killing is a good thing.

Then those who are thinking of joining the extremists with a view to killing will think twice,

if they know some of their Imams see it as a work of the devil and not true Islam.

When the "stop the killing" came from "infidels" - it didn't hold near as much weight as from their own clergy.

And we know that previous wars have continued until those with extremist viewpoints died or were defeated.

I pray this discourages many Muslims from seeing it as the view of true Islam and joining that which hurts their own cause.

If they truly knew how many this has turned AWAY from Islam, they might reconsider it for the damage it does..

but I think the extremists think it furthers their cause because they never look beyond their own.

Either that or they don't really care if anyone converts to Islam, and are selfish and self-centered.

As Carl was saying, some people just wish to kill in the name of religion and let God sort out who was saved afterward.

That doesn't say much about care and compassion for human souls.. if strength - not love - is the central thing.

But then I think it innate in mankind to know that God is Love... a self-evident truth?

but maybe Islamic extremist teachings sear the consciences of their young so that love is rooted out?

I think that may be so because of Okie's post where he says, "One truth I've learned about muslims is the fact that the radical militant types are a lost cause due to the brainwashing they've received from some whacked out Imam at the Mosque."

This sounds a lot to me like the kind of conditioning given to the SS men under H itler..

where the men were given a dog to feed and care for while they were trained to be SS troops..

and then brought before a panel of judges... who told them to strangle the dog in front of them.

Showing any emotion or care or compassion for the dog caused them to fail to pass.

They had to kill on command this dog they had come to know and care for over weeks of training..

without questioning their superiors and without showing any conscience/compassion/care.

Perhaps these men are also lost causes, and without consciences due to conditioning from their cradle..

if their brand of religion teaches them the lie that God is strength.. without compassion or love.

Which is something to which H itler's SS would have agreed.

Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 2:46 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

As for your "we are guests" scenerio concerning the US in Iraq.. well, that is true.. for now.

When you say.. "Who is running Iraq?" and then answer "The Iraqis".. that, unfortunately, is true.

And they have been making a royal mess of it all, haven't they? So.. it doesn't appear likely to stay that way.

When you said, quote:

"Remove the part of the government that is not in line with freedom, but is in line with other agendas...

They have no interest at all in the welfare of all Iraqi's, but are interested only in their world view."

I think you hit it on the head.. Also, when you say:

"So far, anything that has been signed has not been respected. Malaki has had over six months, tried with the "talk option" and as we see it today, the situation has escalated to the point where neither our forces or the Iraqi forces are in control of the street in Baghdad."

That does indeed appear to be how it is being viewed on both sides of the ocean.. and the Iraqis are as ticked about it (or more) than we are.

Here is an article to explain:

Heck of a job, Maliki!
By Sami Moubayed - a Syrian political analyst.

DAMASCUS - Maliki has failed completely to bring security to Iraq.

He has failed to disarm the militias. And he has failed to bring about economic reforms, in addition to being unable to combat unemployment or prevent the immigration of Iraqi youth.

The Ministry of Interior under Maliki is swarming with armed Shi'ite militias, just as it was under his predecessor, Ibrahim al-Jaafari.

The Iraqi police have been infiltrated by militiamen.. Death squads roam the streets

Under Maliki, al-Qaeda has not been weakened..

Although unconfirmed, some claim that the abundance of suicide bombers in Iraq under Maliki is a result of a trick carried out by the militias and the Ministry of Interior on ordinary Iraqi citizens. They offer young men well-paying, non-military jobs, which are quickly snapped up due to the terrible economic conditions, with no questions asked. While on duty, they are sent in a car to a certain location and told to call a certain person when they get there. The employee does not realize that his mobile phone is connected to a hidden car bomb. When he makes the call, his car explodes.

.. to get things done, the prime minister needs the consent of Muqtada al-Sadr, the militia leader who helped bring him to power in May. Muqtada (Sadr), after all, shares identical views with Maliki over the partitioning of Iraq, which both oppose, as well as on Iranian-Iraqi relations. Although Maliki has pledged to clamp down on the militias, he has done nothing to control, or even curb, the powers of the Mehdi Army that is run by Muqtada (Sadr).

It was Muqtada's (Sadr's) support, after all, that brought Maliki to power and it was Muqtada's signal that ended the reign of Jaafari. Maliki's visit to Muqtada shortly after Saadi's release raises speculation that the purpose of the Najaf trip might have been to apologize for detaining such a senior Muqtada loyalist. It also gives credibility to the prime minister among hardline Shi'ites to have his picture taken with Muqtada, a man viewed as a Shi'ite nationalist and anti-American to the bone. Such publicity stunts greatly legitimize Muqtada as well, portraying him as a protege of the Iraqi government.

Instead of objecting to the prime minister's alliance with the rebel Muqtada al-Sadr, the United States is in fact encouraging Maliki to solidify his ties to him. As long as he has the backing of the cleric, the Americans believe, Maliki will remain legitimate in the eyes of ordinary Shi'ites.

Also, the Iraqi Army is facing "great embarrassment" while carrying out its duties in Baghdad because it is being confronted by the police, who work for the Ministry of the Interior and are infiltrated by the Badr Organization, an Iran-backed militia headed by Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim and the SCIRI.

Khalaf states that "the army is more acceptable to the Iraqi street than the police force because of the accusations from some parliamentary and governmental groups who say that the police are supporting the militias and are involved with the death squads". The officers in the army are often attacked by militiamen wearing police uniforms and driving cars from the Ministry of the Interior. Missiles are fired at Iraqi soldiers from districts supposedly under control of the ministry.

With all of this going on in Iraq, it is not surprising that there is a lot of talk about a coup being planned to oust Maliki. Rumor has it that the newly created Iraqi Army, along with former officers in Saddam Hussein's forces, will stage a coup to topple Maliki and replace him with a strong prime minister who is able to clamp down on the militias.

This prime minister would be pro-American, owing no loyalty to the militias as Maliki or Jaafari did. The name circulating is former prime minister Iyad Allawi. Rumors add that the US would initially denounce the coup in lip-service to democracy, but eventually cooperate with the new regime because it would bring security to Baghdad.

It all just shows how impatient everybody is with Maliki. The coup scenario is being actively discussed by Iraqis - almost as if they actually want it to happen.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ21Ak02.html

Roger, like you, the Iraqis are tired of this all and I do believe that they see things pretty much as you and this Syrian commentator see things.. and want Maliki out.

The WH denies any coup attempt is being planned.. but certainly they have said that they have options which are on the table.

This article says:

Bush may alter tactics, not goal in Iraq

WASHINGTON, Oct. 21 (UPI) -- President Bush said he would consider adjusting the tactics but not the long-term U.S. strategy for the in the Iraq war, a report said.

Officials have discussed several alternatives, their plusses and minuses, the Times said. Options include setting a time table for withdrawal; giving a bigger role to other countries in the region; decentralizing the Iraq government and encouraging the formation of a new government headed by a strong leader, the Times said.

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/72814.php/Bush-may-alter-tactics-not-goal-in-Iraq.

So, while the idea of a "coup" may be an extreme way, the US strategy of a new government under a strong leader may mean that in a short while the US may be calling the shots..

In other words, it may not remain as it is much longer.. (one way or another) and that will be a welcome change to both the Iraqis and the citizens of the United States... not to mention that it will help out the prospects for the Dinar considerably.. :)

Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 3:00 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sounds like Sara to me,

Sara, there are doubters in the rank. You used the word Shit, not fetus, so now there's doubt about your identity.

Biiiiiiiig problem, well we gotta have our smile on occasion. I dreamed up the Laura test, and that will settle everything.

anyhow, more on the Oilminister of Iraq,

This have strong influence on the value of the Dinar. He claimed that the Hydrocarbon law have a first draft in the parliament now, it will be mulled over and refined, and of course no full contract can be done until the law is done.

Oddly enough, he had a comment that (understandingly) the oil companies have already approaced the ministry, and some are willing to start on a pre-contract basis.

He didnt elaborate if this was possible or doable though, he just mentioned that they're standing there knocking on the door.

-- October 22, 2006 3:03 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

A very interesting proposition, a coup, what would the US forces do, the current Iraq regime is so infiltrated with the very exact forces that will stop any progress, and is completely lame. If a coup took place, and it would be in the iterest of all...

Would US, as a backer of the elected goverment, either on basic principal, support the current regime, and know that this endless bloodbath will continue.

Or...

Will the US look the other way, saying that this is Iraqi internal business.

It will give Bush and the US an out.

What ever happens, a regime shift will immediately get things taken care of, and it will change the dynamics for the better, more or less overnight.

If we do something, we will get critizised for intervening, if we dont do anything, we will be critizised for letting a peoples government be overthrown.

So either way, we will be critizised, so I say, hey throw out the incompetent guys sitting and blabbing in Baghdad. Theyre so infested with traiters anyway, that the whole regime is a traitor to the Iraqi people.

This is a very interesting possible way things can evolve, and I say, most possible for the better.

Really good find you got hold of there Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 3:21 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Roger. :)

It does seem a win-win scenerio to me, too...
for the Iraqis and the US.

As you point out, either way the US is criticized - but at least by replacing Maliki we might get some work done with Sadr and the militias (reigning them in), and the economy (RV the Dinar). The Iraqi people would have hope then.. and it would help a lot.

As for not being me.. I offer this in sincerity:

God Is Love

I think it is universal that when mankind thinks of God.. they also think God is Loving and good, not evil.

I don't think that is culturally conditioned into us??

But then, it is reinforced in us by various means.

When I think of God.. immediately what leaps to mind are songs..

"Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so."

"Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight,
Jesus loves the little children of the world."

And words..

"For God so LOVED the world..
that He GAVE His only beloved Son,
that whosoever believes in Him would not perish
but have everlasting life."

So.. God loves me, God loves all races/peoples, and God loves us all so much...

that He gave of His own flesh and blood that we would not perish (die eternally) but go to heaven and be with Him.

I think that shows God is Love.. even if it just is a confirmation of what we all know innately.

Surely that is what religion is supposed to do.. lead one into a greater knowledge and appreciation of God.. who is Love.. and His unselfish Love toward mankind?

Sara.

(I sure sound like the old Sara who posted here before.. though I haven't yet quoted chapter and verse. ;) )

-- October 22, 2006 3:52 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Panhandler.....

Yeah Yeah.....run off to Phuket for fun and games and leave the rest of us here to work our arse off bringing the Dinar to an RV. Just remember to have a shot of JB for me at the airport.

Have fun and bring back a real estate report on the current conditions.

-- October 22, 2006 9:36 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,
I am delighted to see your postings on the love of God as it relates to the Bible.

I have been studying the Bible since 1969. It is an inexhaustable writing and I have only scratched the surface in almost 40 years.

Reading it and understanding it, are the easy parts. Applying it and living it is the tough stuff. Most of the time I fail, I am ashamed to report.

Assuming that you might accept scritputre as the infallible Word of God, can you see how this whole middle east subject relates to a genuine spiritual warfare in regard to the muslims?

If I have assumed too much here, please forgive me--no harm intended.

-- October 22, 2006 10:55 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All,

I have introduced this site to my daughters and their spouses.

Mostly because they are so heavily invested int he dinar, and really have no clue ( as my condition, until I found this site).

I think they will benefit from the wealth of information given by everyone.

Maybe when they start to see the real and bigger picture, they will stop spending every waking minute house and car shopping!! haha
I feel better than I did about the whole dinar investment and have converted from the 'If" to the "when". But to rally your activies around the dinar like on would with stock investments is not appropriate, and in this case could lead to insanity!!!

So, if they do enter these discussions, understand that they have to start from the beginning to gather knowledge and understanding.

I hope they take the time to do all of the reading that will more than likely be suggested.

I think they are in for a bit of a rude awakening, and I will try to stand by with boxes of tissues and a strong shoulder--lol--but at the end of the day, they will be better off, because I know that knowledge affords power(control). And they need to get some control over themselves where this dinar investment is concerned.

Example: One of my son-in-law's bought a $100,000 Mercedes last week with the hopes of paying it off in a few months WTDH. YIKES!!!!

He is a very responsible person and I am sure can afford the $2100 per month payment, but his rationale concerning the dinar scares me.

I think if they become involved with everyone here it might put their feet more to the ground....at least I hope so..

-- October 22, 2006 11:14 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Sara,

It sure sounds like you. However, will you confirm it by e-mailing me. You should already have my e-mail. Thanks,

Laura

-- October 22, 2006 3:15 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

I agree on the need for spiritual warfare.. perhaps spiritual warfare will be necessary for always??
But the Bible teaches an interesting teaching which I wanted your feedback on as far as physical war is concerned.

Do you believe the Bible teaches:

War is Wrong

You are going to think that a suprising statement coming from the most warlike nation on the face of the planet (the USA).. but it is true.
As a Christian, I have learned that it is wise never to get into an argument with a pacifist Christian - because they have the Scriptures on their side. I don't know about you, Carole, but I studied it out carefully.. and Jesus and his disciples were not into war, nor did they teach it. As Christians (followers of Christ - and of His disciples who called themselves apostles or sent ones - ones specially sent to teach others the teachings of Jesus, having been trained by Him one on one daily over a period of years) we must admit the teachings of Christ and that what the pacifists say is right.. not only that, they are ahead of their time.. in the future, there will be Universal Peace and there will be no war.

Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This is the future here (obviously it isn't happening now), and it will happen. This is a revolutionary concept.

The Bible sets out many revolutionary concepts which, when introduced, were impractical for the time in which the concepts were introduced. This teaching of Universal peace with no war is one of them. Other revolutionary concepts the Bible introduced to the would include that the ideas that the world should not have slavery, that the races are all equal in God's sight and that women are not less than men but should be treated with equal respect, not as chattel (possessions). Perhaps they are just statements endorsing the obvious.. such as God is Love. But one thing is for sure, as you look across the earth today, in the nations which have honored the Bible and Christianity, these revolutionary concepts have gradually taken hold and you will note that those nations do not endorse or have systemic slavery, racism or treatment of women as possessions. It will be the same with war. In time, war itself will end up being overthrown. Men will no longer lift up "sword" (implements of war) against one another, nor learn war anymore.

However, that is impractical now, as an outright ban of slavery in the days of Jesus Christ would have been (or saying all people groups were equal to the stature of a Roman citizen). If we lay down our weapons, the enemy will overwhelm us and take away all our freedoms (and quite a few of our lives, too). Therefore, though it is not the teachings of the Bible (the Bible teaches pacifism, just as it also teaches no slavery) we must live in the REAL world and by that which is practical - living, therefore, by the sword - and sometimes (God forbid) dying by it until that day dawns. And I believe, when it does, that Americans will be just as happy to put away their implements of war and stop fighting as any other nation.. perhaps more so than other nations because America has paid the cost in the blood of her sons and daughters as other nations who fight for freedom have not.

The only problem I see is when people want to implement peace, saying "peace peace" when there is no peace to be had. To understand the goal of Universal Peace and work toward it as much as is possible within the limits of human endeavor is good - to try and live in Universal Peace before the time is as foolhardy as attempting a revolt of slaves in the middle of the Roman Empire in Jesus' day would have been. Only with men standing around the perimeter of the country of America with drawn swords to defend the peace and freedom we enjoy can pacifists continue to practice their convictions of conscience. Only when those men and women can put down their swords and take up plowshares instead, having no fear of slaughter, will true peace be achieved.. and we aren't there yet.

Until then, we honor and thank those who defend our freedoms.
Thanks to the troops:

Win Media:

http://media.emicmg.com/FFD42835/Video/WMA/100/ithankyou_remixvideo.asx

Real Player:

http://media.emicmg.com/FFD42835/Video/Real/ithankyou_remixvideo.ram

Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 3:38 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Listened to ABC's World News with Charles Gibson on Friday. At that time Charles reported that Iraq would not be divided into self governing proviences.

Sara:

Glad to see you back. The board has not been the same without your. I hope your sabbatical has been beneficial.

All:

A coup could mean a bigger disaster for U.S. troops caught in the cross fire. For right now we are stuck with Malaki and his inaction. Iraq operates from a different prospective than we do. It does not appear they are in any hurry to bring the country back to prosperity.

The Iraqi Compact may not come to fruition. Iraq is a different place and a different people than either the Japanese or Germans. The people of Japan and Germany desired the return of each country to prosperity and to the World Community. Iraqi's loayalities are not with the country. Their loyalities does not rest with the country itself or the GoI, but with their respective ethnic tribes. To change their thinking may take years.

A loyality to ethnic tribes will stifle the U.S. led direction. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 22, 2006 4:27 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Roger and all,

I did e-mail Sara and she returned my e-mail. We have the real McCoy. Sara is back!! I am glad.

Welcome back Sara!

Laura

-- October 22, 2006 6:05 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Laura. :)

Roger.. well thought out test.

Rob N;

I appreciate your comment.. :)

And yes, I did learn some while I was away.. it was a needed break.

Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 6:49 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

There are so many ways to approach your question or statement "Is war Wrong?"

I believe that since the fall of man, God's creation, most everything has gone wrong in one way or another.

Our Creator designed man to live in harmony. To have the angels at their feet and to have dominion over all the creatures of the earth.

In HIs desire to be worshipped,and loved, God gave man a free-will. After all true love can only be expressed when given by choice ( free-will).

There was a terrible price for turning against God in the Garden of Eden, that being separation from the Perfect Holy God.

God in HIs infinite and perfect Mercy made provisions for man's sins to be forgiven and restore their relationshhip with Him.

Before the Advent of CHrist, there were sacrifices and rituals ( all were forshadows of the Perfect Lamb of God-Jesus).

God decided to establish and erect the nation of Isreal as His chosen nation. Through the nation of Isreal, God would demonstrate His attributes to the world and humanity.

History shows Isreal was divinely loved, divinely forgiven, divinely judged, etc..

In God's effort to keep Isreal in exisitence, there were times when He directed war, and the annhilation of men women and children who might prohibit the existence of His Chosen Nation.

God's permissive will also allowed the Jews to be enslaved for extremely long and tortuous times.

The Old Testament is filled with many examples of cause and effect in relationship to the Jews and their obedience/disobedience and blessings and punishments.

The Jews as "siffnecked" as they demonstrated to be time and time again, God always provided a provision for them ( one heart at a time) to restore their personal relationship with the Creator. God made a promise of a coming Savior from the very firat book of the bible-Gensis., to the actual fufilling of that promise with the birth, life, crucifixion, burial,and ressurection of Jesus CHrist.

While Jesus was here, He was on a divine mission. That was to be the propeciation for mankind. To once and for all bridge the gap between the Holy and Perfect Father and mankind.
Leaving, however, man's freewill intact!

We can see that during the Life of Christ on earth, He was of no political party. He made no distinction of color or gender. If anything He showed special favor to children, the underprivileged and the sick.

He made profound statements like: "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father,"

"I and my Father are One"

" No man comes to the Father accept by Me"

Jesus declared that His mission, for now, was not to judge the world but to save the world from their sins and reconcile man to God.

He was very clear that there would be another time when He would return to Judge.

He also made it very clear that one human at a time had to accept and trust who He was and reach out for that forgiveness by claiming the blood that He shed to cover their sins. And this has not changed. It is still the condition for forgivenss and a restored personal relationship.

He promised that the rewards of that is eternal life in heaven. He sealed that promise forever. His divine nature makes it impossible for Him to lie.

Now, regarding wars and slaves. Jesus showed He was aware of the different human predicaments when he stated " Render onto Cesear what is Cesear's....."

and " a man can not serve 2 masters....."

The apostle Paul gives direction for all categories of people in that culture of that day: for husbands and fathers, for women, for children, leaders in the church AND FOR SLAVES.

That does not condone slavery. Paul says" I wished that all men would be free..."

Jesus says, " I wish that none would perish..no not one..."

Being in college in the 60's, the pacifist movement was very popular. Even though several that i knew pointed to the bible as their reference, I never found much consitencies in their lives to substaniate their claims.

I do, however, understand and accept a persons true feelings of not being able to kill another, whether during a time of war or otherwise. But I think it is a conscientious issue rather than a doctrinal one.

I think you mis read my question. I was not asking if you thought we should be in a spiritual war, I was asking if you saw this whole middle east issues as a spiritual war?

While, I get taken up in the day to day issues and some of the political issues, in my heart and mind, I know that there can be no peace right now and you are right ...it is coming....but not before "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord...."

Pretty exciting times, don't you think?

This is why I get concerned about the dinar making wealthy people of my family.
We are all Christians and the temptation to become extremely materialistic, might cause some real spiritual battles that poor people don't have tp face!!!haha

-- October 22, 2006 6:51 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

Well that will take the doubters out of the pic. Laura, thanks for confirming.

RobN.

Regarding removal of the current Iraqi regime.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think we're at the point where we have to take all the good and all the bad with each option, and weigh in on the scale.

One thing for sure, if we continue doing exactly what we're doing now, we will witness a genocide, backed by Sad'r, and under the Iranians influence, while the Iraqi regime will do nothing.

Just read an article about another deadline for getting the militia to disarm. It's about as fruitful as go to our jails, let them loose and try to get a promise of no crimes.

Bombs, in the blue barrel, and AK's in the yellow. Hah.

In time of crisis, a nation needs a firm hand, just in order to survive and get it's act together. The western style Democracy, I'm prepared to say, at this very moment, it is a failure in Iraq. Perhaps further down the line, when things are calm, under control, and when time enough has been given for people to lay back, and reflect a bit, it is time for another implementation.

I'm starting to look more and more of a coup, as a very real option to get things going in Iraq.

Politically things will be lip served quite a bit, it doesn't matter, whatever we have right now over there is an incompetent impotent mess, barely loosely , perhaps in name only, government.

I don't really care if the politicians, acts surprised, "oh we have a coup???"

I'm pretty convinced, that no coup can be even close to possible, without any kind of "wink wink, nod nod, poke poke" from our intelligence agencies. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that any potential coup makers have to be promised quite a bit. Have a long line of assurances, and a laundry list of issues cleared in beforehand.

Anything is better than this daily mayhem.

If you're not in control, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, democratic people elected government. It's of lesser significance, if there is no control.

Whatever force is ruling the street IS the ruling force, and if it's not the government, then it doesn't matter what is sitting behind walls, claiming a status it doesn't have.

I heard the other day, on the news, that the tension is so high, that one day, Malaki had to call up and ask if he still had the backing of President Bush. so evidently rumors are flying pretty widely over there.

The notion of a removal is starting to be so real for Malaki, that he had to call in and do a check call.

This is developing in a way that I believe is for the better.

It might not be perfect but anything is better than the existing condition.

I'll take anything, anything that will bring the country in control, if it has to be a junta for a while, so be it, as long as control is in the hand of the governing body, junta or coalition of people or whatever.

If it happens, I'm sure they come up with a fancy name, "The Temporary Salvation Government" or "Iraqi Rescue Volunteers" or something along that line. It's all nice and ducky with me.

So if you ask me, I say the scale is tipping in big favour of remove this regime, they don't represent the whole people anyway, and is completely infested with 5th columns, to which they bow.

-- October 22, 2006 7:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

What will a removal of the current regime in Iraq mean for the Dinar?

A nations currency pretty much reflects the health of that nation, more so for a currency that is used only in a smaller country,(Dinars) and less so for a currency that is used globally (Dollar).

Iraq could be considred being in the first category, and the currency could very well be liked with a thermometer sticked into the mouth.

Probably, any potential coup maker, have to agree, that all the international trade, monetray and other agreements they have to stick with, and a coup would not be a blank slate, starting from square one.

The only reason for a coup would not be because any opposition of the forwarding progressing development programs. The only reason would be, the current governments inability to stop the sectarian killings.

If a coup takes place, I therfore do not believe that any investment laws, or current contract with the international community will be violated. The Iraqis would have no reason for that, but are instead looking for a quicker way to their own prosperity, and they know very well that finance agreements with the world is the very key to that route.

Possibly, as a way to boost, the living standard, the Dinar will be revalued. This regime, is not doing anything at all on most any front, so the possibility of this regime doing a reval, is slim. A new regime could do a couple of "emergency actions" and reval the Dinar.

All in all, if a coup is planned, nothing in the infrastructiure other than the removal of the regime, would be threatened.

I do believe that the Dinar is safe, and even have bigger possibility after a regime change.

-- October 22, 2006 7:41 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

If you would know the history of this blog you should know that we indeed talk religion here on occasion, however, there have been instances here where the blog ended up as a religious forum.

This went on to the point where most members of the blog started to react and opposed it.

Religion can enact a lot of right and wrongs, I just say that to you already now, so you are pre
warned.

-- October 22, 2006 7:48 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

Very much LIKE YOU, I will try to answer someones question to the very best of my ability.

UNLIKE YOU- it is not a requirement that they accept or agree with my response.

I would not solicit, NOR DESIRE that this blog become a religious forum AT ALL, but if someone asks me a question about my biblical view, I will answer them, as Sara did. Or any other viewpoint I may have on any subject.

Boy!!!! I could have been extremely wealthy some day---cause I would have bet my last dinar that I (we) would hear from you, concerning my answer to Sara.

-- October 22, 2006 9:02 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Sara,

Please don't over stay your welcome back. This board was pretty interesting to read while you've been gone. Alot of helpful DINAR information and very little Jesus talk. If you wish to chat it up with the holy rollers and make converts please leave again -- and don't come back.

Sorry to be mean.. you just really struck a bad chord with me with your past hijackings of this board. Anyone who wants to see what I'm referring to just look at her past posts.

-- October 22, 2006 9:07 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

I'm trying to help, you might not think so, but ok. I stay out of it, you will found out by yourself.

-- October 22, 2006 9:31 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Taylor:

Can have some humility and hospitality. Regardless of your opinion about Sara she is welcome. As I said, I am glad she is back. Regardless of your belief or non-belief this blog is open to anyone wishing to post.

Roger:

Regarding your comments about a coup and the over throw of Malaki. I can envision such action, but it must be done within the confines of the constitution.

I believe Malaki is torn between two forces of which he can never fully align himself with. The U.S. wishes to see progress, Malaki has been slow with any desired progress. Sadr, wants control of the government and he must go through Malaki, at least in public the PM must be weary of his relationship with the known terrorist.

That being said, if a coup could hasten a better future for Iraq and a quicker RV I would be for it. I suspect if a coup does happen Malaki will pay for it with his life.

-- October 22, 2006 9:46 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:
Glad to have to you back aboard...

Taylor...you are an ass..F. O. !!

-- October 22, 2006 10:52 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Regarding posting,

Of course, anyone can post anything and there is no posting police, (Well, Kevin might interfere if there is too much anal talk)

I'm glad to see Sara back, love her, however Carole is new and shows attitude when I tried to giver her a hint on what goes and doesnt, oh well.

Carole, all I'm saying is that there was a past here, that was not too much of a happy event. that if you don't know, it can repeat itself, instead, as you do, jump on me personally , and....oh I don't bother about it. If you don't want to know, you just don't, can't help you.

Carole, do I dare to propose you to do some back reading, and found out yourself. Do I dare to ask you to enlighten your self, or do you just know better?

Carole, I am trying to help you, can you understand that? Does that make sense to you?

Regarding Saudi Arabia Ryads,

Economical chronicles in the area reports that the Saudi currency, might be up for a reval, they predicted the chances as 1 percent a month ago, but think there might be a 10 percent chance as it stands right now.

That would mean that the Iraqi Dinar will be, by a close neighbours strengthening of his currency, even more weak, and give one more reason to strengthen the Iraqi Dinar, with a reval of it's own. If the Saudi currency will reval, is not a sure bet though, but if that is to happen, the reason for the Iraqi Dinar to reval will strengthen.

Rob N.

Absolutely, and I'm sure this is such a tricky situation, that there might even be a panel set aside for the Presidential advisor. (I'm not even sure if, in fact, a coup is in the works). IF it is in the works, I'm pretty sure, all the things are weighed in back and forth.

By it's nature, a coup must overthrow something that is sitting there already.

What ever came in to place was put there fully legally.

Things like, what is the better good for the most number of people must be taken into account.

Just because there was an electoral process, doesnt mean it is an absolute.

As mentioned before, Democracy is not freedom, it is only a vessel.

Hitler got elected, Hamas got elected, and the Soviets had election boxed.

Hitler was already an elected member of the German parliament, when because of split differences two factions decided to get Hitler the power, the two factions thought they could control him. So suddenly Germany had a Fuhrer.

Nevertheless, he WAS AN ELECTED member of the parliament.

Knowing what we know today, and would have the power to remove Hitler in the very early stages in his career, would we remove him.

Absolutely, we wouldn't even think twice about it.

The fact that he was elected by people , legally, and legally put onto his post, compared with the enormous mayhem he caused later, I'm pretty sure we all easily would have by-passed those rules, stepped over them, and just plainly removed Hitler.

Now, I'm not comparing the Nazi regime with the Iraqi regime, I just compare the legality of removing a regime, if needed.

In Iraq, we have a continuous genocide, and out of control country, a lame duck as government, and big sections of the government in cahoots with the militias.

Benign incompetent, corrupt, non acting governments are no news on this planet. But if this would have been a dull place somewhere along the Mediterranean Sea, they have had this corruption forever, but no genocides going on, I'd say, who cares, as long as they don't step on peoples toes, or kill innocent lives, they can sit there in their corruptness, and be a 3rd world country as long as they like.

However in Iraq, it is an emergency, and there is no time to implement long term social schooling programs, educate all the children in how to behave, and see to that no one is cruising in the passing lane, in an effort to bring about a change for the better. The militias have to be dealt with NOW.

The need for change is very urgent.

The prospect of a coup, might be our own pipe dream and a couple of others wishes as well, so it might very well be that we are entertaining an idea here, that will not happen.

I just cant see, if the option is to continue with the current regime in Iraq, what the future prospect of success is.

I just think this regime is a lost cause.

I had a five minutes pause here , thinking about the current Iraqi regime, Bush, our involvement, and the whole enchilada.......and smiled a bit, in my mind I realize that (with the knowledge I'm sitting on anyway) this is pretty much a dead end. I just can't see solutions, they got to go.

Rob N, I just think we have to watch and see where this will go, after all we're not sitting in the White House.

-- October 22, 2006 11:06 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Carl the straight shooter. :) had an instant laugh.

-- October 22, 2006 11:09 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I just realized I missed out on an important thing on your posting, and I think this might be what is considered the turning point in Malakis career as a PM.

You mentioned that Malaki must be careful with his dealings with AlSad'r, at least for the public eye.

No, Malaki and AlSadr, had a meeting recently at the Iraqi Government. There was even a photo op, where the two was in very good mood, and whatever they discussed, we don't know, but we know that AlSad'rs men are slaughering people wholesale every day.

If Malaki will survive a coup, me, I don't really gives a rats ass...

-- October 22, 2006 11:27 PM ∞

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VALERIO wrote:

All;

I find it very difficult to believe that there will be a coup. There may be a change in administrators of the GOI, but no way it will be through the operations of a coup. Don't be so impatient!

Sara,
Good to see have put your armour back on.

Taylor,
Just what is a Jesus freak?

Roger,
Do all the newcommers really have to go back and read everything from the last 2 years?

Carl,
Amen!

-- October 23, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All

A coup would be devestating on all fronts.

It would undo and destroy even the remotest threads of a democracy, of which the Iraqi people are so proud.

Coups do not come in and pick up where the last regieme left off. They come in an usurp all previous authority and power.

All the lives, money and efforts would have been for nothing. ANd who is to say that the next group won't be worse?

Does their constitution provide for the removal of a leader under a rule of law--like powers of impeachment?

I hesitate to say it, but an assassination would be less destructive to this baby democracy than a coup.

And what is the data that terms of genocide are being used? The country gives more to a definition of a civil war than a genocide--or is there something I am missing?

You realize if a coup takes place, there goes all hopes of economic recovery and all starts from square one, and maybe not even that.

At any rate what a mess!!!

Historical precedents are in the making--I just feel it in my bones!!

Roger,

Before you even suggested, I went back and read past postings. I found Sara to be very gracious and very knowledgable on many issues. ALong the way expressing her personal beliefs on many levels including spiritual.

But others have too!! SO what's the big deal? There are always going to be those who attack with a vengence in their disagreements or objections.And that is because in a forum that opens up a marketplace of ideas, people come from all walks of life and in all forms. There will be those who have more tolerance and those who have less. There will be those who try to undermine and undercut with ignorant inuendos and insults.

But there are those like Sara and others Ihave seen here, that either do ot respond or accept her for who she is and admire her convictions even if they don't agree.

They rise above the temptation of using derrogatory referrals like "Nazism" or "Jesus crap" or "Jesus freaks" or "holy rollers"etc etc.

My position is ...if you can't take the heat , get out of the kitchen.

Where was Taylor's expressed objection to the vulgar intruders? Or is he just intolerant of Christians and other spiritually like minded people? I guess I should be asking him---sorry.

I am a nit picker, I will admit it. To me you are a double minded communicator and you contradict yourself often. And you have to be always right and constantly justify yourself, ignoring what the impact of your misplaced words might have on someone. You have very poor self assessment skills.

For me this creates a communication problem and one I would rather avoid, which is too bad cause I think we both miss out, cause I think we both have alot to bring to this forum.

40 years in a career as a professional observer of human behavior, gives some credibility to my conclusions. I am certainly not always right, but the odds are stacked in my favor.

I am a firm believer that no one has the power of persuasion. We must each make our own journeys in life. We can each be influenced but I truly believe not persuaded.

SO in my readings of Sara's past postings, I saw no proselytizing. If you know different, can you point out those postings? I must have missed them.

-- October 23, 2006 1:11 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All

A coup would be devestating on all fronts.

It would undo and destroy even the remotest threads of a democracy, of which the Iraqi people are so proud.

Coups do not come in and pick up where the last regieme left off. They come in an usurp all previous authority and power.

All the lives, money and efforts would have been for nothing. ANd who is to say that the next group won't be worse?

Does their constitution provide for the removal of a leader under a rule of law--like powers of impeachment?

I hesitate to say it, but an assassination would be less destructive to this baby democracy than a coup.

And what is the data that terms of genocide are being used? The country gives more to a definition of a civil war than a genocide--or is there something I am missing?

You realize if a coup takes place, there goes all hopes of economic recovery and all starts from square one, and maybe not even that.

At any rate what a mess!!!

Historical precedents are in the making--I just feel it in my bones!!

Roger,

Before you even suggested, I went back and read past postings. I found Sara to be very gracious and very knowledgable on many issues. ALong the way expressing her personal beliefs on many levels including spiritual.

But others have too!! SO what's the big deal? There are always going to be those who attack with a vengence in their disagreements or objections.And that is because in a forum that opens up a marketplace of ideas, people come from all walks of life and in all forms. There will be those who have more tolerance and those who have less. There will be those who try to undermine and undercut with ignorant inuendos and insults.

But there are those like Sara and others Ihave seen here, that either do ot respond or accept her for who she is and admire her convictions even if they don't agree.

They rise above the temptation of using derrogatory referrals like "Nazism" or "Jesus crap" or "Jesus freaks" or "holy rollers"etc etc.

My position is ...if you can't take the heat , get out of the kitchen.

Where was Taylor's expressed objection to the vulgar intruders? Or is he just intolerant of Christians and other spiritually like minded people? I guess I should be asking him---sorry.

I am a nit picker, I will admit it. To me you are a double minded communicator and you contradict yourself often. And you have to be always right and constantly justify yourself, ignoring what the impact of your misplaced words might have on someone. You have very poor self assessment skills.

For me this creates a communication problem and one I would rather avoid, which is too bad cause I think we both miss out, cause I think we both have alot to bring to this forum.

40 years in a career as a professional observer of human behavior, gives some credibility to my conclusions. I am certainly not always right, but the odds are stacked in my favor.

I am a firm believer that no one has the power of persuasion. We must each make our own journeys in life. We can each be influenced but I truly believe not persuaded.

SO in my readings of Sara's past postings, I saw no proselytizing. If you know different, can you point out those postings? I must have missed them.

-- October 23, 2006 1:12 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Valerio,

Of course not, but it sure helps. Many times it's better.

Next guy walking in on the blog, asking :

When will the Dinar revalue?
Where can I buy Dinars?
I don't want to get burned, what is the difference between Swiss Dinars, Saddam dinars and Bremer Dinars ?
If the Dinar is re valuated, wouldn't the terrorists get more money?
Dinars, I thought they had Arabian Dollars down there, tell me about Dinars!

What would you say to him?

Probably try to be as polite as possible and ask him to read up a bit.

Two years back, well that's your take. (give or take a couple of weeks).I've read it all.

Carole,

I love Sara, will give her a hug any given moment. But you don't have a clue where you're going , and wont learn history, so I will just lean back and watch it unfold.

regarding Coup,

No Carole, I can agree with you as so far as it is not a good scenario. If a coup comes I do believe it will be at least under covered sponsored by us.

There is no way I can see a coup can come about without our involvement. It might or might not come, but the current regime is a failure, not in control, and are in bed with Sad'rs gang and other militias as well.

Genocide is ongoing with no action taken from the government, on it's own people.

The current US administration might still have hopes on better days in Iraq with the current players in the current set up, but it's so obvious now that it will not happen, that it takes a 5 year old to see that these Iraqis are heading towards the disaster zone, and have probably already passed the go/no go point.

-- October 23, 2006 3:03 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

Inspite of all of Pres.Bush and the administrations constant barrage of criticism, the stronghold for their rebbuttal is "but they now have a democracy..."

And no one can defend against that. A coupdetat would show our efforts ( and the alliances) a failure.

I truly understand that a change must take place, but can you see anyother way to replace the current leaders ?

If change can take place under their current constition, this would make great strides for them and to the worldview. NOt to mention the people would experience the benefits of a true democracy in progress. It would resonate throughout the middle east and give hope to all others that do not live in a democracy.

Investors ,world wide ,would be given a strong signal for renewed confidence.

I think if the US is to get involved, it should be to do everything in it's power to get Maliki to step down ( and out), and then orchestrate the appointment of someone who can really do the job.

I really don't know much about their constitution, but the US was very involved in the writing and establishment of it. There must be a way for change under the rule of law and their constitution.

A coupe would give strength to Al Queda, the Taliban and Hezzbulah, and all other destructive forces in the middle east.

Can you or anyone else give insight to other options that would facilitate the much needed change?

If some drastic event, like a coupedetat is to occur, I sure hope it happens after our up and coming elections.

The JOn Kerry's, Hilary Clintons and Nancy Pelosi's of the world ....

It would weaken our own government and bring perilous times, including an invitation for another 9-11.

Do I see this right or am I over reacting?

-- October 23, 2006 6:56 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

AND THERE ARE TWO....

AIR LINKS in the log chain...

Log Chains are as strong as the next link...it appears that Sadr and the Iraqi PM are two of the weakest spots in the length of the Iraq Government chain.....without those AIR LINKS being removed the entire chain has been compromised,and can not achieve its full strength or usefulness.

I find it difficult to see why we have allowed Sadr to remain....this has been one major BOOBOO of our military command.

Why we have allowed him to continue to poison the new Iraqi government is truely a mystery to me. I just want to convince myself that our military command has something else in mind...other than the obvious...

-- October 23, 2006 7:01 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

Think back to the JFK days. Our involvement to try to overthrow (probably through a failed coupedetat) resulted in the assasination of our own President.

I know this is a very controversial subject, but many astute historians, both here and abroad, hold fast to those assertions/ AND the CIA has never denied or defended the accusations.

Iraq must win in the battle of perserving their democracy,such as it is.

Even if they have to bluff their way through it, along the way. This is where the US can help, by putting pressure on the other players (the corrupt factions and the militias), until all hands fold, and the Iraqi democracy prevails.

As I see it, then and only then will the sarifices of lives and money and all the other elements that have gone into this war, see a return on their efforts. That can only be good news for the DInar.

I know it sounds idealistic, but wasn't it a stretch for the Iraqi people to ever see themselves going to a voting poll???

Concerning the other matter, thanks for your concern, but I think I can handle any adversities presented to me in this forum. I have put on the full breastplate of Armor.

I am glad you hold so much esteem for Sara. I think I do too.

-- October 23, 2006 7:27 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

There are a few of older dinar posters still hanging around...
Some have either sold their dinar or put it back in a safe place for a brighter day...
Over the past two years I and the others have seen every projection,wish,fabrication,Genie in the bottle prediction, my cousin,sister, buddy, inside Iraqi banking informants who claim to have the real McCoy sprayed, and spread like dairy cow manure all over this site.....
The truth is when it happens it happens....all indications were back then around end of 2007 or 2008 before any significant movement. Reasons for that thinking is the process of setting everything up, and those time lines were given by the IMF, etc..
The problem we have now is it looks like the Iranians have taken over the reins of the Iraqi Government Officials. We saw it forming but we were hoping against the odds that it would not happen...
The majority of our military has done a remarkable job, and have displayed their skills with utmost professionalism.The politicians, well.....you now see before your eyes why our congress and house of representatives approval rating is below 35% by national polls...
I continually have faith that somehow things will settle down....but I also understand human nature...and this may end up being a long rainy season for us all....I believe we might just want oil our slickers, because I see more stormy clouds approaching...maybe Sara can see the rays of sunshine in the background...I am desperately looking ...

-- October 23, 2006 9:38 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

I agree with Carl's post; "I just want to convince myself that our military command has something else in mind...other than the obvious." I found some encouragement regarding the deployment of the 1st Cav, but I to hope our government and military has something else in mind.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 23, 2006 10:01 AM ∞

---

Terri wrote:

Does anyone have any news on the progress of the HydroCarbon Law?

-- October 23, 2006 12:43 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Terri....

I've read conflicting reports on approval of the HCL...anywhere from one week till the end of the year. Sure would be sweet to get this legalized.

-- October 23, 2006 1:19 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

We're in for a wild ride the next couple of weeks...no, not for the wild things going on in Iraq...but our politicians going nuts before the mid-term elections.

For those of you who enjoy a religious flavor to our postings, let me offer the following prayer:

"Oh dear Lord, please let Hilliary be the Democratic candidate in our next Presidential elections...then I would know that the Republicans would be in office for the next 20 years".

-- October 23, 2006 1:31 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

It’s a sign of very harsh times in Iraq when the people are afraid to celebrate the end of Ramadan, Eid Al-Fitr, since it’s like our Christmas over here. I worked in that neck of the woods for over twenty years and never saw a situation that stopped the celebration.

I realize plans are being put in place to get rid of the militias, but they better do it soon, before they gain more power. Maliki had better make a move real quick!

=======================================================================================
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 10:45 a.m. CT Oct 23, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Fearing new attacks, Iraqi Sunnis largely shunned public celebrations of the end of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan on Monday, huddling in their homes following market bombings that killed at least nine people the day before and a total of at least 44 across the country.

Facing growing impatience with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s failure to stem the carnage, Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh said international forces must not abandon Iraq or give while the situation there remained volatile.

“I do believe there is no option for the international community to cut and run,” he told reporters after meeting Prime Minister Tony Blair in London. He said Iraqis and the international community need to be realistic, “but not defeatest.”

“We need to understand that there is a need of utmost urgency to deal with many of the problems of Iraq but we must not give in to panic,” he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15387413/

-- October 23, 2006 3:39 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole and Carl;

Thanks for the supportive posts.

TAYLOR;

Learn to be tolerant.. if things go the wrong way, you will need to have learned it to live under the Muslim caliphate, so you might as well start learning religious tolerance now. :)

As for politics, something to consider today:

What would the Democrats DO if they take the House?
Well.. thousands of hearings.. including impeachment hearings for President Bush..
Oh, yes.. and they might have to explain what they want to do about Iraq.. (redeployment?? pulling out??)..
something they are avoiding now.
Whatever the news.. I don't think it would be good for the fortunes of the Dinar.

Sara.

Quote:

What the Dems Would Do
They've waited 12 long years to reclaim the steering wheel. How the party out of power would rule if they retake the House.
By Michael Isikoff and Holly Bailey
Newsweek

Oct. 30, 2006 issue - John Dingell likes to reminisce about the days when Democrats ruled Capitol Hill. Back in the 1980s and early '90s, the irascible Michigan congressman was chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the most influential in the Capitol. Dingell oversaw huge swaths of the U.S. economy, as well as the environment and food and drug laws. At times the chairman seemed more prosecutor than politician. He used his gavel to call dozens of hearings. He'd subpoena high government officials—at the time, that often meant Republicans who worked for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush—and grill them for hours under the hot television lights. Dingell always insisted that witnesses testify under oath, meaning anything less than honest answers could be met with perjury charges. It was Dingell's oversight subcommittee that uncovered the Pentagon's $600 toilet seats and exposed corruption in government agencies. "We emptied the top leadership of the EPA," Dingell recalls with obvious satisfaction. "We put a large number of FDA people in jail."

That was before Dingell was forced to surrender his gavel when the GOP won the House in 1994. If Democrats take it back next month, the party will once again be in charge of all the committees. Dingell—now 80 years old and more ornery than ever—is all but certain to return to his old job.

Dingell is careful to say he is not out to get George W. Bush, or the Republicans, and insists he will extend his hand to his GOP colleagues and conduct "oversight thoughtfully and responsibly." He says "there's no list" of things he wants to investigate. But in the next breath, he quickly ticks off a list of things he wants to investigate: The Bush administration's handling of port security and the threat of nuclear smuggling; computer privacy; climate change; concentration of media ownership; the new Medicare Part D program, which he calls a "massive scandal," and the secret meetings of Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force. "This is a hardheaded administration," Dingell says. "So we'll probably have lots of hearings."

The House of Representatives is full of John Dingell Democrats—exiled committee chairmen awaiting the day they can reclaim the center chair on the dais. All carry lists—if only in their heads—of issues and outrages they believe Republicans have failed to probe...

Henry Waxman of California is another Democratic old-timer whose ire never dims. A tireless investigator, he's in line to head the Government Reform Committee, and plans to take aim at Halliburton and alleged rip-offs and contract abuse in Iraq. Then there's Charles Rangel, the New York congressman who's never met a cable show he didn't like. He is set to take over the Ways and Means Committee, and wants to take a hard look at the Bush tax cuts. John Conyers of Michigan has waited for years to head the Judiciary Committee. He's likely to convene hearings on the Patriot Act and domestic wiretapping. In the past, he has suggested the possibility of impeachment hearings for President Bush. "When the Clinton administration was in office, there was no accusation too small for the Republicans to rush out the subpoenas," Waxman says. "When Bush became president, there wasn't a scandal big enough for them to ignore."

Frothy rhetoric like that may appeal to those Democrats who relish the thought of spending the next two years in a state of C-Span-induced euphoria. But much as Democrats might like to see a thousand hearings bloom, there is one thing standing in their way: the Democratic leader herself. Nancy Pelosi, who would presumably become Speaker if the party wins the House, has made it clear that she does not want to turn the Capitol into a courthouse. There will be hearings, and plenty of them, but ...Pelosi is concerned that too many flying subpoenas would make her party appear petty and revenge-hungry, obsessed with blaming Bush. She does not want anything to interfere with her most important goal: making the Democrats look like leaders instead of obstructionists.

Democratic leaders are largely sticking with domestic issues in part because they have yet to come up with a coherent plan for the biggest problem of all: articulating a clear way out of Iraq. On the campaign trail, Democrats have been content to bash Republican failures and say they'd do better. The Democrats' official line is to promise a "new direction," and to urge, vaguely, "redeployment." If they win, they'll be forced to say what, if anything, that means.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15365610/site/newsweek/

-- October 23, 2006 6:03 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

Great prayer!!
Here's mine:

Dear Lord,
Please answer Carl's prayer. Our country is at the crossroads of potential perilous times. Please encourage the republicans as well as all reasonable thinking registered voters to get out and vote. The absence of voters will insure the Demos victory.

I also know that if things don't go well, and I don't die of some terrible disease or get hit by a truck or go to the electric chair for strangling Roger,( relax Roger--just a little humor--), I will most likely die defending my country or defending my faith.....Amen!

Sara, Your welcome!

Your funny too!! I for one am hoping for a landslide in the conservative direction, like the BUsh Victory. It will speak volumes to the Left. However, can you imagine the fallout that will take place? I forsee the demise of the Democratic party or a revolution.

That is why whatever must happen in Iraq, has to have the lid on it for 10 more days!! Agree?

-- October 23, 2006 11:07 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

God, or someone, heard and answered your prayer.

I now have a twitch in my left eye, fallen arches and a full moustache!

Thanks pal!!

All:

The intensity of the times has my nerves racked!! It's time for a little humor break!!

Does anyone have any good
( clean) jokes to share? Or am I the only one in need of a good laugh---remember laughter is medicine for the soul!!

-- October 23, 2006 11:35 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Carl, it sounds like your looking for sympathy to me.

-- October 23, 2006 11:49 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

OOPS!!

Sorry, Lord, it was Okie's prayer not Carl's.

Sorry Carl and Okie!!

I'm delirious, I'm going to bed.

Sweet dreams everyone!

Carole

-- October 24, 2006 12:52 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Jokes N stuff for Carole;

If you are willing to admit faults, you have one less fault to admit.

==
If it's true that we are what we eat, how come we all aren't light, new, and improved?

===

I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you.

===

Anger is a condition in which the tongue works faster than the mind.

===

It is never too late to be what you might have been.

===

"Doctor, am I going to die?"

"That's the last thing you're going to do."

===

If you're called upon to give advice, you should know that it is like snow: The softer it falls, the deeper it goes.

===

"Pete" asked the teacher, "can you tell me where hippopotamuses are found?"

Hippopotamuses," answered Peter, "are so big they hardly ever get lost."

===

Be gracious to your friends: if it weren't for them, you'd be a total stranger.

===

Painter: What's your opinion of my painting?

Critic: It's worthless.

Painter: I know, but I'd like to hear it anyway.

===

What's large, gray, and doesn't matter?

An irrelephant.

===

Dad's pager went off, summoning him to the hospital, where he is an anesthetist. As he raced toward the hospital, a patrol car sped up behind him--lights flashing.

Dad hung his stethoscope out the window to signal that he was on an emergency call.

Within seconds, came the police officer's hand in response, dangling a pair of handcuffs out the window.

===

One scientist said to another, "I'm beginning to agree with the theory that space is curved. Either that, or my car is pulling to the left."

===

QUESTION: How many jugglers does it take to change a light bulb?

ANSWER: One, but it takes at least 3 light bulbs.

===

Optometrist's office: If you don't see what you're looking for, you've come to the right place

===

The best thing to give an enemy is forgiveness; to a friend, your heart; to a child, a good example; to a father, deference, to a mother, good conduct; to yourself, respect; to all, charity.

===

The reason there are so few female politicians is that it is too much trouble to put makeup on two faces.

===

A Congressman was once asked about his attitude toward whiskey. "If you mean the demon drink that poisons the mind, pollutes the body, desecrates family life, and inflames sinners, then I'm against it.

"But if you mean the elixir of Christmas cheer, the shield against winter chill, the taxable potion that puts needed funds into public coffers to comfort little crippled children, then I'm for it."

"This is my position, and I will not compromise!"

===

A "GUNG-HO" captain, I was assigned to the military training center at Lackland Air Force Base. Once an airman walked into my office unannounced. "Haven't you been taught respect for officers?" I barked. "Go back outside, knock, and wait for me to tell you to enter!"

She didn't come back, but ten minutes later my sergeant, who had office privileges, walked in. "Aren't you coming?" he said. "I sent someone to get you. The staff is gathered next door with a cake for your birthday."

===

An American couple visiting a German village stepped into a small shop to look for souvenirs. The woman sneezed.

"Gezundheit!" said the clerk

"Charles," said the American woman to her husband, "we're in luck. There's somebody here who speaks English."

===

"Imagination was given to us to compensate for what we are not; a sense of humor was given to us to console us for what we are." - Mark McGinnis

===

I was shopping in a large department store in mid-January. All the rush of the holiday and post-holiday sales was over, and the place seemed quite empty. One saleswoman, however, was swamped in packages. As she went by me with an armload of boxes, she explained, "MacArthurs." A few minutes later she passed me again with another batch of cartons. "More MacArthurs," she said. Then I saw her again and again with still more packages. "Full of MacArthurs," she said, smiling.

When I saw her for the fifth time, I asked, "Miss, could you tell me what in the world MacArthurs are?" As she carried away yet another armload, she winked at me and said, "I shall return."

===

-- October 24, 2006 2:27 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

If this agreement and the Mecca agreement can't stop the bad guys then they need to declare martial law and "shoot on sight" anyone caught with an illegal weapon. Brute force may be the only solution, especially with the militias.

=====================================================================================
• Most viewed on MSNBC.com

Updated: 14 minutes ago
BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. officials said Tuesday Iraq’s government has agreed to develop a timeline for progress by the end of the year, and Iraqi forces should be able to take full control of security in the country in the next 12 to 18 months with “some level” of American support.

Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, also said he felt the United States should continue to focus on drawing down the number of American forces in the country, adding that he would not hesitate to ask for more troops if he felt they were necessary.

The comments came after a spike in violence during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. Casey said the Iraqi army lost 300 men during the fasting month ending this week.

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said that the Iraqi government had agreed to develop a timeline for progress by the end of the year. He declared that the United States needed to redouble its efforts to succeed in Iraq.

Khalilzad and Casey appeared at a rare joint news conference in the heavily fortified Green Zone in Baghdad. A power failure in the Green Zone briefly cut off the broadcast of the remarks.

U.S. knocks Iran, Syria
Both men castigated Iran and Syria, Iraq’s neighbors east and west, for trying to undermine the American effort to stabilize the country.

Khalilzad said that radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who controls the violent Mahdi Army militia, had agreed to U.S. demands that the government develop a timeline for reducing violence and stabilize the political situation.

-- October 24, 2006 9:55 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

What a surprise to wake up to!! Thanks for being so accommodating!!

My favorites are : ....the misconceptions...

female politician/2 faces

and imagination/humor.

Very clever and cute.

A freind of mine ( dinar investor) called me last night to ask if I had watched 60 minutes a few days ago. ( I hadn't). He said one of the topics was about someone ( an Iraqi) reportedly stole billions and is now building houses and extravagant lifestyles around the world...

Have you or anyone heard anything about that?

Well, I will be gone on an assignment for a few days. During that time I am going to take my realestate friend out to dinner.

The night that my 5th daughter posted here, she and her husband were on their way to a casual dinner party hosted by him.

She called me the next day, all excited because he had announced to everyone that he had confirmation that the DWH by the end of October. He told them with such great assurance.

My children are deeply invested in the dinar, and know less than I did before coming to this site, so of course...if Lee said it.. it must be true.

I read her Roger's response to her posting and of course, she is so confused now. Roger's posting was very informative and helpful.

It irritates me that he(RE guy) does these sorts of things. SO it is time that he and I have a talk and he either has to start naming his sources, or get on the same page with the rest of the world on this subject.

I don't know why he would do such a thing, he doesn't have any personal gain by promoting the buying of more dinar. I don't know if was doing that the other night either, but there is something here that doesn't fit and I am going to try to find out where some missing pieces might be.

My only suspicious thought would be that if he gives everyone an assured confidence in their imminent wealth, he can sell thme more realestate!!?? We'll see.

Maybe I will be surprised, and he has some real connections and we will have a great treat for Halloween....or a bomb of a trick!!....
Hmmmmmm....

Anyway, on Wed. night, around 8pm (PST) hold a good thought!!! :}

-- October 24, 2006 9:59 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Okie,

Thank you for great information. You are so right!! Extreme gun control seems a very logical and very necessary measure.

It won't take the guns away, but a few demonstrations of " killed on the spot" will certainly have a deterrent affect, for awhile anyway.

I read last night a chronilogical time line on the history of Israel. In the past they have been very quick to initiate pre=emptive attacks on any threat to them ( especially nuclear). I would have thought by now they would have targeted the nuclear reactor site in Iran.

What are your thoughts.

-- October 24, 2006 10:09 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Carole,

On the subject of Iran, I recommend Pastor Hagee's latest book "Jerusalem Countdown". He discusses this issue at length. He believes that Iran will have a nuke soon and mentions that Israel has nuke tipped bunker buster bombs that will take care of Iran's deep facilities.

This book is a must read if you are interested in what may happen the next couple of years.

-- October 24, 2006 10:40 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thought this worth a gander at:

Quote:
Florida Jury: Be Careful What You Post on the Internet
Posted by Noel Sheppard on October 11, 2006 - 11:19.

It’s fascinating that this decision came on September 19 and virtually went unreported up until now, but a Florida woman has been awarded a startling $11.3 million in her “Internet defamation” lawsuit. Without question, this decision has startling ramifications for Internet denizens, bloggers, and message board posters, as it makes it quite clear that folks can’t just write whatever they want regardless of facts with total impunity. As reported by WebWire (emphasis mine throughout):

It is not often a person is awarded $11.3 million dollars from a jury of their peers. But in the case of Sue Scheff and her organization Parent’s Universal Resource Experts, Inc. (PURE) v. Carey Bock, the jury felt compelled to send a very strong message – which they have. Included in their $11.3 million dollar verdict, they awarded Sue Scheff and PURE $5 million in punitive damages. “The punitive damages speak volumes,” says Scheff, “it was set to punish the defendant for what she did to my children and me. Just because you don’t like someone or what they do, it does not give you carte blanche to post false statements about a person on the Internet.”

The article continued, documenting threatening Internet exchanges that are altogether too common to those that spend a lot of time at message boards or comment sections. There’s no question the jury was trying to make a serious statement:

After the trial was over, the jurors waited in the hall to meet with Ms. Scheff. They embraced her and told her that they wanted to send a message that people can’t use the Internet to invade a person’s privacy or to destroy lives. They encouraged Sue Scheff to continue her good work with children and families.

As Sgt. Esterhaus used to say, “Let’s be careful out there.”

http://newsbusters.org/node/8240

I would like to point out that these damages of $11.3 million dollars were meant to make a legal point.
There’s no question the jury was trying to make a serious statement:
The statement is about, “Internet defamation”.
Just thought it worthwhile noting that those violating the law are not immune to prosecution.

Sara.

-- October 24, 2006 10:55 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole....

The few people I've known from Israel were 100% against ever letting history repeat itself and allow any country to do them harm.

During the Lebanon battle they purchased several "bunker buster" type bombs from the US and never used them. If push comes to shove with Iran I believe they would use these weapons on the nuclear targets in Iran.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail in this situation but if Iran doesn't back off it could get very nasty in that part of the world.

-- October 24, 2006 11:14 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

Glad you liked them.. I hesitated to post them. My girlfriends and I pass around jokes, those were just a few we were sharing.. but you never know if someone might take offense. I tried to pick the best ones which I thought could not be misconstrued.. I'm happy a couple of them made you smile. :)

As for the pacifist discussion... (Warning, TAYLOR, skip the rest of this post, it is theology and a discussion of war from a religious point of view.)

I noted you used all Old Testament in your discussion. Again, does that mean you ignore the New? Supposing we START with the New Testament, which is the New Covenant.. and with our leader, Lord and King - Jesus Christ.. to see the answer on this definitively from His words and example. As CHRISTIANS, Jesus is seen as the One to whom we listen and obey above all, and His words and examples are the final word for us. Note that in the New Testament there is no "kill the infidels" or speaking of spreading the gospel by the sword given in the New Testament text. When you have to go back to the Old Testament to justify a view, and it goes against the plain example and teaching of Christ (there was a reason for a NEW Covenant?? doesn't that make the Old covenant .. old? Heb 8:13).. well... umm.. let's just agree to disagree on the point. Because Jesus never taught to take the sword. When one of Jesus' zealous disciples defended Jesus' life in the Garden and cut off the servant of the high priest's ear.. Jesus rebuked him and healed the ear back onto the poor fellow's head. (Remember in their minds that this was equivalent to defending God and His honor, because they all believed Jesus to be God incarnate - God come to earth and manifested physically in human flesh - 1 John 4:2-3.) Jesus then said that if He wished He could call for ten thousand angels and be protected by their might..

Mat 26:51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put up your sword again into its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Mat 26:53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?

Mat 26:54 But how then shall the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?"

Luk 22:51 And Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him.

The "Just War" position you take is based wholly on Israel as a chosen nation. That is not the case here.. in speaking of war today. You can argue for war today from logic, wise worldly reason, and necessity. You can argue from self defense (after 9-11, to protect the US from attack), which Jesus allowed a sword to His disciples for. But jihad or holy war is not based on the example or teachings of Jesus Christ. You cannot justify war from the words, teaching or example of Jesus Christ.

Luk 22:36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

Jesus here allowed the disciples to take a sword to protect their lives.. but never to run out and wage war on God's behalf or to further His Kingdom. If Jesus truly is the example for Christians to follow.. if they are followers of CHRIST.. then surely His words and actions speak so loudly to us of peace that we cannot mistake His message? It may be unpopular and even impractical to be implement at this point in time in History.. as was His teachings against slavery and against treating women as mere possessions, but in time, His way of Universal Peace will prevail on earth as it is in heaven.. for that is what the Scriptures forsee and teach, as I posted before:

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125686

Morally, War is Wrong.. it is not God's will any more than slavery was. It is a necessity which we all wish to be rid of as soon as it is practical. Until we see the Way God has provided to end all war so that nation will not lift up weapons against other nations - until we clearly see the path to peace He has ordained.. we stand and defend the freedoms God has given us - including our right to life itself (to defend against our lives from their being taken as happened on 9-11) - and we seek His protection from above.

As Martin Luther put it: God help us.. here we stand. We can do no other.

Sara.

PS Okie, your statement concerning Israel, "The few people I've known from Israel were 100% against ever letting history repeat itself and allow any country to do them harm." shows that Israel, too, has taken this position in the world.. that they have the right to DEFEND themselves from attack. I believe that is the teaching of Scripture.. of Jesus, and that holy jihad (waging war on God's behalf or for religious aims, to further the spread of religion) is not defended as right by either Christians or Jews.

-- October 24, 2006 12:24 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Numerical mistake.. sorry.

I apologise for the numerical mistake...
I said Jesus could have called for ten thousand angels.. but it says twelve legions.
I looked up what a legion was..

le·gion (lē'jən)
n.
- The major unit of the Roman army consisting of 3,000 to 6,000 infantry troops and 100 to 200 cavalry troops.
- A large military unit trained for combat; an army.
- A large number; a multitude. See synonyms at multitude.
- often Legion A national organization of former members of the armed forces.
http://www.answers.com/topic/legion

Presuming the high number of 6200 angelic troops per legion (times twelve), that makes it 74,400 angels He could easily have called up to His aid.

That is a LOT of angels.. And if you remember, ONE angel killed all the firstborn of Egypt.. and ONE angel killed:

Isa 37:36 Then the angel of the Lord went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when the people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses--all dead.

I would say that if ONE angel could kill 185,000.. that 74,400 of them would definitely be a huge amount against the tiny contingent which confronted Jesus in the Garden. Perhaps Jesus in this instance was explaining the incredible degree of might at His disposal had He wished to use it?

Sara.

-- October 24, 2006 12:53 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

The draft of this law is worth reading because most of the killing is based on how the Government divides up the oil revenues (the golden goose)into equal shares for everyone. The Iraqi law will probably be drafted very close to this one from the Kurds.

They still don't have the wording that satisfies the Sunnis about being left with nothing but a bucket of sand. They're worried about the revenue sharing related to "current fields" and "future fields". The draft outlines these on pages 40 and 41.

The 'unity" Government that Maliki is forming is hung up due to the distribution of wealth on an equal basis. This is a tough nut to crack...but it must be done in order to gain peace.

========================================================================================
KRG petroleum law to go to Kurdistan parliament

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Erbil, Kurdistan, 23 October 2006 (KRG)
The Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) today published a draft of the petroleum law for Kurdistan. This draft will be forwarded to the Kurdistan National Assembly, the Region's parliament, for its consideration. The Minister for Natural Resources, Dr. Ashti Hawrami, today issued three press releases addressing different aspects of the law, including revenue management and the KRG policy on the Kirkuk oil fields.

The draft has benefited from further comments and suggestions to the two previous published drafts.

The Act is accompanied by a detailed Explanatory Memorandum. Arabic versions of the documents will soon follow.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-24-10-2006&article=11269

-- October 24, 2006 1:12 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger, all...

Sorry for the off Dinar discussion on war.. but it really ISN'T off topic because the whole war is religious, not political.

May I have your take on this one, Roger.. board?

POLITICALLY CORRECT WAR
By RALPH PETERS
New York Post

October 18, 2006 -- HAVE we lost the will to win wars? Not just in Iraq, but anywhere? Do we really believe that being nice is more important than victory?

It's hard enough to bear the timidity of our civilian leaders - anxious to start wars but without the guts to finish them - but now military leaders have fallen prey to political correctness. Unwilling to accept that war is, by its nature, a savage act and that defeat is immoral, influential officers are arguing for a kinder, gentler approach to our enemies.

They're going to lead us into failure, sacrificing our soldiers and Marines for nothing: Political correctness kills.

Obsessed with low-level "tactical" morality - war's inevitable mistakes - the officers in question have lost sight of the strategic morality of winning. Our Army and Marine Corps are about to suffer the imposition of a new counterinsurgency doctrine designed for fairy-tale conflicts and utterly inappropriate for the religion-fueled, ethnicity-driven hyper-violence of our time.

We're back to struggling to win hearts and minds that can't be won.

The good news is that the Army and Marine Corps worked together on the new counterinsurgency doctrine laid out in Field Manual 3-24 (the Army version). The bad news is that the doctrine writers and their superiors came up with fatally wrong prescriptions for combating today's insurgencies.

Astonishingly, the doctrine ignores faith-inspired terrorism and skirts ethnic issues in favor of analyzing yesteryear's political insurgencies. It would be a terri- fic manual if we returned to Vietnam circa 1963, but its recommendations are profoundly misguided when it comes to fighting terrorists intoxicated with religious visions and the smell of blood.

Why did the officers in question avoid the decisive question of religion? Because the answers would have been ugly.

Wars of faith and tribe are immeasurably crueler and tougher to resolve than ideological revolts. A Maoist in Malaya could be converted. But Islamist terrorists who regard death as a promotion are not going to reject their faith any more than an ethnic warrior can - or would wish to - change his blood identity.

So the doctrine writers ignored today's reality.

Al Qaeda and other terror organizations have stated explicitly and repeatedly that they're waging a global jihad to re-establish the caliphate. Yet the new manual ignores religious belief as a motivation.

The politically correct atmosphere in Washington deems any discussion of religion as a strategic factor indelicate: Let our troops die, just don't hurt anyone's feelings.

So the doctrine writers faked it, treating all insurgencies as political. As a result, they prescribed an excellent head-cold treatment - for a cancer patient. The text is a mush of pop-zen mantras such as "Sometimes doing nothing is the best reaction," "The best weapons do not shoot," or "The more force used, the less effective it is."

That's just nutty. Should we have done nothing in the wake of 9/11? Would everything have been OK if we'd just been nicer? What non-lethal "best weapons" might have snagged Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora, where the problem was too little military force, not too much violence?

Should we have sent fewer troops to Iraq, where inadequate numbers crippled everything we attempted? Will polite chats with tribal chiefs stop the sectarian violence drenching Iraq in blood?

On the surface, the doctrine appears sober and serious. But it's morally frivolous and intellectually inert, a pathetic rehashing of yesteryear's discredited "wisdom" on counterinsurgencies and, worst of all, driven by a stalker-quality infatuation with T.E. Lawrence, "Lawrence of Arabia," who not only was a huckster of the first order, but whose "revolt in the desert" was a near-meaningless sideshow of a sideshow.

Lawrence is quoted repeatedly, with reverence. We might as well cite the British generals of the Great War who sent men over the top in waves to face German machine guns.

You can trust two kinds of officers: Those who read a great deal and those who don't read at all. But beware the officer who reads just a little and falls in love with one book. A little education really is a dangerous thing.

The new counterinsurgency doctrine recommends forbearance, patience, understanding, non-violent solutions and even outright passivity. Unfortunately, our enemies won't sign up for a replay of the Summer of Love in San Francisco. We can't treat hardcore terrorists like Halloween pranksters on mid-term break from prep school.

Where is the spirit of FDR and George C. Marshall, who recognized that the one unbearable possibility was for the free world to lose?

We discount the value of ferocity - as a practical tool and as a deterrent. But war's immutable law - proven yet again in Iraq - is that those unwilling to pay the butcher's bill up front will pay it with compound interest in the end.

The new counterinsurgency doctrine is dishonest and cowardly.

We don't face half-hearted Marxists tired of living in the jungle, but religious zealots who behead prisoners to please their god and who torture captives by probing their skulls with electric drills. We're confronted by hatreds born of blood and belief and madmen whose appetite for blood is insatiable.

And we're afraid to fight.

(Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer.)

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/Articles/Politically%20Correct%20War.html

-- October 24, 2006 1:41 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

It's Not Just About Iraq, US Diplomat Says
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
October 24, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - Success in Iraq is possible -- and more than Iraq is at stake if the United States withdraws its troops too soon, a U.S. diplomat said on Tuesday at a press conference in Baghdad.

"The broader Middle East is the source of most of the world's security problems," said Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq. "The struggle for the future of the region is between moderate and extremist political forces. The outcome in Iraq will profoundly shape this wider struggle and in turn, the security of the world." (NOTE: read here, our security, our defense of our lives, our ability to live and have freedom)

The extremists, including Al Qaeda, Iran and Syria, fear Iraq's success and want to undermine U.S. resolve. They have everything to gain by prolonging the conflict, killing people, and "creating the perception that Iraq cannot be stabilized," Khalilzad said.

He called the war "the defining challenge of our era."

America's enemies believe that their will is stronger than ours and that they can win by outlasting us, Khalilzad said. And he said the violence that Americans see headlined on TV and in newspapers are the work of those enemies.

Khalilzad accused Iran and Syria of supporting the groups involved in Iraq's growing sectarian strife.

"As we look ahead, the question for the United States is whether we will acquiesce to or defeat the efforts of the enemies of Iraq." The U.S. should "make adjustment in out strategy and redouble out efforts to succeed," he said.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200610/NAT20061024b.html

-- October 24, 2006 3:04 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Appeasement

Laura stated:

America (under pressure from Jordan and Syria) took an official view that General Sada's testimony while crediable is unverified.

In addition, Georges Sada states that Saddam was planning a terrorist attack on Washington D.C. with 100 tons of his chemical weapons. He also wanted to see nuclear weapons go off inside USA and car bombs inside USA. This information is on a tape that USA intelligence has on Saddam. Saddam is the one speaking and General Georges Sada was asked to translate the tape for state department as it was in arabic.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125604

The tape and documents from my understanding are with the national security people. The tape is in arabic and General Georges Sada was asked by intelligence to translate it.

As to why the USA government will not release it, is a question and I certainly do not know the answer to that.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125617

====

This shows that this is not just an IRAQI problem we have here.

It shows that terrorism was planned against the US. Why they wish to keep it all hushed up, I don't know. Why the Democrats and everyone else want to make this all into some Civil War over there which we can just pull out of and come home and live in peace.. I also do not know. But I do see this.. Islamic fundamentalism is a growing viewpoint. It is not going away anymore than Communist ideology is going away, or Hitler's views about the Third Reich. It is increasingly encroaching on the rest of the world, and the world is now too small to ignore this threat. I was not joking when I said to TAYLOR he had better get religiously tolerant, because the Muslim caliphate might take over. That is their plan and goal. We cannot appease them or any other dictator (like North Korea).

Democrats Appease Dictators and Terrorists - GOP Zucker Ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYz4oNPfuhE

Sara.

-- October 24, 2006 5:53 PM ∞

---

TAYLOR wrote:

Carl-- FO?? Come on now.. you can do better than that.

All you did was allow a nuisance to circulate her religion on this board. She deviates from the dinar topic like a crowd of people around dog crap.

Sara- while you were gone this was a useful place to get dinar information. Now armed at the side with your "Christian soldier" carole you shouldn't have any trouble ruining things again.

PS.. There was a reason I didn't have anyting to say about the rude posters here last week.. They may have been rude but they were on topic.

-- October 24, 2006 6:15 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Quote:
Top General Optimistic on Iraq
By LOLITA BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, October 24, 2006

(10-24) 15:44 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) -- Marine Corps Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news conference that his optimism about Iraq's future is based on his belief that most Iraqis want peace and stability. He also said Iraqis have plenty of incentive to halt the sectarian violence that threatens to tear their country apart.

"The great incentive inside of Iraq with the Iraqi people is their own self-pride and determination that they want to stand on their own; they want to be free; they want to determine their own way ahead," Pace said.

Stephen Hadley, the president's national security adviser, said Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and the fledging government are starting to take steps aimed at quelling the rising sectarian violence and moving Iraq toward prosperity and peace.

"I think they've got to do more and they've got to do it faster," Hadley said in a radio interview at the White House. "And I think if you talked to Prime Minister (Nouri) al-Maliki he would say, to you, the same thing."

In Baghdad, U.S. officials said Iraqi government leaders have agreed to develop a timeline by the end of the year for progress in stabilizing Iraq and reducing violence.

Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander who appeared at a news conference with U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, said Iraqi forces should be able to take control of security in the next 12 to 18 months with minimal American support.

Pace said there was not yet a U.S.-Iraqi agreement on specific benchmarks for progress; he said discussions are ongoing with regard to benchmarks in the political, economic and security areas. Pace said it would not be wise to set specific dates for meeting certain markers.

"Having a very precise date I think is not useful, either from the standpoint of forcing yourself to do something too soon or from giving your enemies too much information," he said.

Democrats said Tuesday the suggestion of a timeline has come too late. "While it is helpful to lay out a timeline for the training of the Iraqi forces, after three and a half years of training, this timeline is too long," said Missouri Rep. Ike Skelton, top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/10/24/national/w154410D60.DTL

There are some people who will never be pleased with you no matter what you say or do, isn't there? So easy to criticize when they add nothing to the issue at hand themselves.

Sara.

-- October 24, 2006 8:56 PM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Found this article you all may be interested in-very insightfull

Liberalization Strategy For Iraq's Oil-Hostage Economy
Alternative To Oil Power Dominance And Neo-Liberal Subordinate Economic Policy (Part 2/2)
By Sabri Zire Al-Saadi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24 October 2006 (Middle East Economic Survey)
Monetary Policy And Oil Production

It is indisputable that maximization of crude oil production is required in the short and medium term as oil revenues are essential for financing public expenditures and imports10. This policy is also in line with the interests of both the oil consumer and OPEC countries, regardless of the pricing factors of oil exports in global markets. But while the macroeconomic policy and oil production should be consistent in order to rationalize the allocation of resources, especially oil revenues, for increasing economic growth as well as providing social services and public utilities, the present monetary policy and especially the FXR have misled economic efforts.

In Iraq, while dependence on oil revenues has been increasing, the contribution of non-oil sectors to investment, imports, and public finance has been deteriorating for more than three decades. The post-war experience has also shown that mismanagement of public finance and widespread corruption, as well as the application of irrelevant economic policies, have contributed to the prevailing miserable socio-economic and political situation11. A significant irrational aspect of the post-war experience has been the provision of (indirect) subsidies for financing increasing imports that have eroded a substantial share of oil revenues, and the elimination of the state’s support for non-oil potential exports. These policies have added to the weakness of indigenous industrial and agricultural activities. In fact, the hasty liberalization of foreign trade imposed by the orders (Laws) of the former CPA and the resulting FXR led to negative interactions with the interests of nascent domestic industries and agriculture. It has been claimed, however, that the new FXR maintains economic stability, and the apparent stable (fixed) exchange rate of the ID/$ reflects a sound monetary policy12. This affirmation needs more examination to expose the real cost of utilizing oil revenues which would justify the demand for considering oil production policy as an integrated part of the state economic strategy and government policies.

By utilizing oil’s comparative advantages, public investment for the construction of infrastructure and petrochemicals and basic industries was the major factor for economic growth and employment during the period 1953-80. At present, using oil revenues to finance intensive public programs for rehabilitation of manpower and the implementation of a wide labor intensive public works program is also essential for dealing with the socially explosive unemployment problem and improving the labor market environment. If successfully performed, the task of building the required free trade and industrial zones, seaports, transportation and communication network through the IDRC, and improving the productivity of manpower would help the private sector to expand its investment capacities. Here lies the crux of the matter. In Iraq, the requirements and policies for the expansion of production (physical and manpower) capacities are very different from the policies dealing with the likely variations of short-term business cycles as practiced by developed countries. Therefore, monetary policy should be considered as a complementary part of the fiscal and public investment policies rather than a superior factor that influences the aggregate demand. Obviously, this proposition is in contrast to the present monetary policy which assumes that economic stability and private investment are necessary and sufficient conditions for economic growth; ie the independent CBI restricts the likely expansion of government fiscal policy. As Iraq’s experience has shown, inefficient public enterprises during the 1970s, 80s and 90s misused public financial resources and benefited from the easy credit facilities provided by the government which owned the commercial and investment banks.

But it is also misleading to stipulate that economic stability, ie controlling inflation and the fluctuation of foreign exchange rates, can be achieved without exploitation of the generous oil revenues. In addition, the present FXR has inferiorly linked the domestic interest rate to the US rate, determined by the US monetary authorities. What domestic economic factor justifies this policy? And why is the interest rate on ID deposits in domestic banks (12%) more than twice that for investment in dollars (5.25%) under fixed rate of ID/$? Who are the beneficiaries from the difference? Does this policy really help to check the inflation hike (70%)? Also, with a static policy, the weak (strong) US$ in the world market would induce more government spending and lead to more excess (insufficient) money supply. Does this practice support the sterilization of foreign currency flow? Unfortunately, neither the MOF nor the CBI has taken the trouble to explain these ambiguous monetary policies. In this context, it is essential to highlight the current mismanagement of the oil cash revenues by the MOF and CBI13, especially when the post-war Law of the CBI does not permit the public to question the monetary authorities’ crucial decisions14. In a democratic Iraq, it is hard to understand how the authority glorifies the accumulation of foreign reserves as if the economy were in good shape and was the result of the application of sound economic policy. Is it not a deception of public opinion on the part of the policy makers and advocates?

The NDS ascertains clearly two main issues; first, the national economy has two main characteristics: high dependence on the oil sector and imports, and an insignificant contribution of non-oil sectors and non-oil exports to GDP; secondly, oil revenues are the main source of public finance15 and, therefore, constitute the principal source of money liquidity. Analysis of the GDP composition reveals that the government’s consumption and investment demand and imports are the dominant factors that stimulate production and exports. It also constitutes the main source of money liquidity and foreign currency. Since the role of the private sector is limited in terms of its contribution to GDP and public finance, its influence in determining money liquidity is limited too. However, while the NDS appraised the independence and performance of monetary policy, it did not mention how nascent industries and agriculture activities would increase their productivity and competitiveness vis-à-vis the dumping of cheap imports and increasing cost of production. Also, while oil revenues are the main financial source of NDS, its passive policy towards the unemployment problem and the provision of public services can not be justified. Indeed, the inconsistency and shortcomings of NDS’s objectives and policies reflect the irrelevancy of the applied macroeconomic policies16. The effectiveness of the fiscal and monetary policies, however, does not mean that they are efficient and progressively leading to increase economic growth and employment and liberalize the economy from its high dependence on oil.

Efficiency Price Of Oil Production And FXR

In Iraq, there are many domestic and international economic, political, technological, and physical factors that determine crude oil production. Three main issues are of significance: first, the absorptive capacity of the national economy and the ability of the authorities to expand non-oil production capacities while maintaining economic stability; secondly, oil production should satisfy the need of energy’s consumer countries; and thirdly, in determining the level of investment in oil industry, ie expansion of production capacities and reserves, there is always the possibility of non-oil energy alternative – at least in the long run – and the uncertainty associated with the production peak of the existing oil aquifers. Such factors influence optimal production and the national investment decisions in oil industry.

Given these circumstances, the policy of maintaining optimal production of crude oil is theoretically linked to the state’s overall objective of maximum increase of economic growth, but must be practically qualified by the diversification of production activities and the production capacity peak. However, in view of the present global oil supply and demand conditions, the given analysis should be widened to include the prevailing measures and arrangements that were set to coordinate the oligopoly practice of OPEC countries. That is to say, it is also essential to evaluate the cost-benefit outcome of the collective oil price and production policies of OPEC as well as the likely role of Iraq being (another) swing player in OPEC. Such an approach would not, however, change the basic assumptions that determine the necessary oil production (revenues) which would help to modify the oil production policy and ensure effective macroeconomic policies17. It would only act as a yardstick to limit oil revenues extravagance that leads to the over-relaxation of domestic saving and constrains non-oil exports.

Now, how can then we arrive at such practical strategy and policy that compromises the reality requirements with the theoretical conditions?

It is our understanding that the (estimated) shadow price of oil production would perform this task since it expresses the relationship between the crude oil production level and Iraq’s economic growth conditions. In technical terms, the shadow or efficiency price of oil resources reflects the relative scarcity of oil that constitutes (in the practical sense) the most binding constraint on economic growth and social development. Given the exceptionally high dependence of the economy on oil exports (revenues), the foreign exchange rate of ID/US$ plays a strategic role in influencing (determining) the economic efficiency of oil production policy. Consequently, a new (adjusted) FXR must be established in order to facilitate the implementation of new economic strategy and policies that is based on a national inspiring long-term future vision18.

To justify such a proposition, we should recall the relevant basic theoretical assumptions of free market economy. The optimal distribution of the available resources of any production entity aimed at maximum profit will be achieved by equalizing profit realized from producing and selling one extra (marginal) unit from its production at a certain price with the cost of resources used in the production of this unit valued at efficiency prices, or, when abnormal profit is equal to zero, ie the prevalence of the optimal condition19. However, less efficient distribution or distribution below the optimal level leads to less normal profit. This means that if the optimality condition can not be realized, then the economic activities of the firm will be reduced and therefore utilize less of the available economic resources. Also, the summation of optimal activities of all production entities in a society means optimal distribution of the available resources and hence they will achieve maximum economic growth. However, it is not unknown for state intervention in economic affairs or any disturbance of the perfect competition in the free market mechanism being reflected in the resource distribution pattern at which the prevailing prices would are far away from the real efficiency prices.

In Iraq and elsewhere, the economic, social, and political reality needs a practical and more suitable way than the theoretical mechanism for mobilizing and distributing economic resources. The existence of widespread market imperfections resulting from the prevailing underdeveloped economic and technological infrastructures and social necessities distort the values of real prices. The price of oil is no exception, ie it does not reflect the scarcity of oil resource in relation to Iraq’s main objectives and constraints, where the surplus of the balance of payment is the key factor for economic growth and social development. Theoretically, real foreign exchange is directly linked to optimal crude oil production at which the balance of payment would be at equilibrium or at the level of where full utilization of foreign currency reserves as well as higher economic growth are achieved.

In reality, however, if oil production is less than the optimal (theoretical) level, then public oil revenues should be utilized only in financing infrastructure and public services and utilities. If oil production exceeds the optimal level, then public oil revenues must be utilized in investment projects guided by profit criterion and regulated by free market conditions.

Crucial Economic Policy Changes

The virtue of free market economy, ie optimal mobilization and distribution of resources that maximize economic growth, has been one of the main objectives for Iraq policy-makers since the fall of Saddam’s dictatorial regime. However, actual economic strategy and policies have miserably failed to revive the economy and rebuild the infrastructure, or establish a solid foundation for an efficient market economy despite the huge cost of thousands of human lives, and security, social, political, and financial spending. The mismanagement of the country’s abundant oil revenues, weak government institutions, and widespread corruption are symptoms of this failure. Since the fall of the former regime in April 2003, the growth of agriculture, non-oil industrial activities, and non-oil exports have been almost zero. The substantial accumulation in dollar reserves at the CBI have been generated only by the fortune of oil revenues. Therefore, maintaining the FXR and FER of US$/ID does not reflect sound macroeconomic, fiscal, and monetary policy nor keep up the real value of oil revenues from continuous deterioration resulting from hidden cost of free flow of imports.

In Iraq, increasing the contribution of non-oil sectors and private sector to the GDP and public finance is essential for transforming the oil-rentier economy to an efficient market economy. To achieve this long-term target, oil revenues (production) must be utilized to bring about the required economic growth, diversification, and the construction of infrastructure. However, the present policies are not efficient in utilizing oil revenues (production). Increasing oil production is essential, but to ensure macroeconomic efficiency, oil production policy should be linked to the fiscal and monetary policy so far as they reflect the scarcity of oil resources in relation to the country’s need for the reconstruction of public infrastructure. This can be achieved by the application of a flexible FXR aiming for both economic stability and economic growth. Therefore, using oil revenues to sustain a fixed exchange rate of ID/US$ and consequently associate the domestic interest rate to the US one would reduce the economic efficiency of utilization of oil revenues as well as restrict the role of monetary policy.

Essentially, Iraq needs an economic strategy and macroeconomic policies guided by a national long-term vision that aims to increase economic growth, employment, diversification, and the role of private sector, rather than rigid fiscal and tight monetary policies to regulate the (imaginary) short-term business cycle fluctuations through money-supply and interest rates as applicable to developed countries. The following economic policy issues have to be considered:

Reformulation of a macroeconomic policy to maintain both stability and promote economic growth, especially for non-oil industries and agriculture.

A gradual liberalization of the foreign exchange regime, ie the fixed exchange rate of ID/US$.

Gradual, but firm implementation of coherent structural economic reforms.

Limited and temporary import protection measures as well as export promotion incentives have to be taken to support the competitive capacities of infant indigenous industries and low-productivity agriculture.

Provision of investment incentives for the indigenous private sector and foreign corporations.

Initiation of a new economic strategy guided by a national vision, institutionalized through wide economic, social, and political public debate.

Abbreviations

CBI: Central Bank of Iraq

IDRC: Iraqi Development and Reconstruction Council

CPA: Coalition Provisional Authority

IMF: International Monetary Fund

FER: Foreign Exchange Regime

MOF: Ministry of Finance

FXR: Foreign Exchange Rate

NDS: National Development Strategy (2005-07)

GDP: Gross Domestic Product

USAID: US Agency for International Development

ID: Iraqi Dinar

WB: World Bank

Notes:

10. During 2005, Iraq’s cash receipts from export sales of petroleum amounted to $21.914bn. (http://www.iamb.info/auditrep/iambpres123105.pdf.). Total USAID assistance to Iraq from 2003 – 6 September 2006) amounted to $5.004bn (http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/econgov.html).

11. See; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Iraq's Post-War Economy: A Critical Review”, MEES, 5 April 2005, and “Iraq's National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, Strategic Insight, CCC, Vol 5 Issue 3, March 2006. (www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/mar/SaadiMar06.asp).

12. On the claimed economic accomplishments in Iraq, see; US National Security Council, “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq”, November 2005, Republic of Iraq, "National Development Strategy 2005-07", Iraq Strategic Review Board, Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, 30 June 2005, CPA, “An Historical Review of CPA accomplishments (2003-04), June 2004, Baghdad, Iraq. (www.cpa.org), and USAID accomplishments in Iraq. (www.usaid.gov/iraq). Critical views of this policy were given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Oil Revenues and the Foreign Exchange Regime in Iraq”, MEES, 6 September 2004.

13. The International Advisory and Monitoring Board on the Development Fund for Iraq (IAMB) concurred with the audit reports by Ernst & Young covering Iraq’s oil export sales and the DFI operations for 2005 in which “the audit reports continue to be critical of the financial and accounting systems in place in spending ministries, the US agencies in respect of the outstanding commitments using DFI resources, and the Iraqi administration of DFI resources”. Press release, 10 August 2006. (www.iamb.info). The audit reports highlighted MOF and CBI responsibility for “ ineffective control systems” and “inadequate corporate governance and organization structure” as there is no designated executive and financial controller to direct the DFI’s overall activities at the entity level”. Moreover, there is “no formal authority matrix and authorization (of cash payments) limits. Ernst & Young “Summary of Preliminary Findings for the six months ended 31 December 2005, Pending the Finalization and Approval of the Audit”. (http://www.iamb.info/auditrep/iambpres123105.pdf).

14. CPA” Central Bank Law”, No 56 of 1 March 2004.

15. Republic of Iraq, "National Development Strategy 2005-07", Iraq Strategic Review Board, Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, 30 June 2005.

16. Assessment of the NDS policies was given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Iraq’s National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, Strategic Insight, Vol 5 Issue 3 (March 2006), CCC (http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2006/Mar/saadiMar06.asp).

17. A mathematical analysis on the issue was given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Foreign Exchange Rates and Optimal Crude Oil Production in Developing Oil-Exporting Countries”, ibid.

18. A general definition of the vision was given in; “Iraq’s National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, ibid.

19. Theoretical analysis of the concept “zero-profit requirements” was given in: Dorfman, R Sameulson, P and Solow, R “Linear Programming and Economic Analysis”, Rand Corporation, Tokyo, Japan, 1958.

This article was written for MEES by economic advisor Sabri Zire al-Saadi, a UN former employee who held senior economic posts in Iraq. Email: sabri_saadi@hotmail.com. Part 1 was published last week.

-- October 24, 2006 10:31 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Sorry-that last article was from me-didn't realize my name and email address were not posted. Normally it is-had a cold and not as alert as I should be.

-- October 24, 2006 10:35 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Another of his articles (well worth the read)

Iraq's National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies
Strategic Insights, Volume V, Issue 3 (March 2006)
by Sabri Zire Al-Saadi

Strategic Insights is a monthly electronic journal produced by the Center for Contemporary Conflict at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. The views expressed here are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent the views of NPS, the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

For a PDF version of this article, click here.

Introduction: The Vision
For centuries, Iraq has held a strategic geopolitical position in the Middle East region. Since the late nineteenth century, Iraq has attracted foreign interest in its oil wealth. Toward the future, Iraq's strategic importance will extend beyond the drive for the democratization and economic liberalization of the Middle East, as part of a wider movement for civil liberties within a globalization thrust.

Iraq also has the potential of being a successful economic model as well as a major energy supplier to the developed economies as well as the emerging giant Asian economies of China, India and South Korea.[1] At national level, the economic and social welfare of Iraqis will be substantially improved. At present, however, the perception is that the cost of losing the war against terrorism and failing in maintaining stability and nation-rebuilding would be devastating to the Iraqis, and the risk of neglecting Iraq would be tremendous for the region, and to the strategic interests of United States and its allies.

Since the fall of the former dictatorial regime on April 9, 2003, costly efforts have unfortunately failed to maintain security, revive the damaged economy, and improve the harsh living conditions. The accumulated effects of economic hardships and social misery have added to the widespread damage inflicted by vicious terrorist attacks, violence, crime, and corruption that impede economic improvement.

However, Iraqis have been and remain in acute anguish, and are hoping for a rapid improvement. The successful election on January 30, 2005, and the approval of a new constitution in a referendum by the majority of Iraqis, have sustained hope, but the subsequent political disarray, social disturbance, and continuous terrorist attacks, coupled with the country's economic mismanagement, have retarded the initiative for changing the prevailing depressed conditions.

Iraq's future success, nevertheless, depends not only on political and social stability, maintaining security, promoting democracy, economic liberalization, and the availability of oil wealth. Equally important, modern Iraq must have visionary, imaginative, inspiring, and accountable leaders; and governments and political parties that are able to design new national strategies, regulate the macro-economy, and efficiently implement a reconstruction program. Protection of non-renewable resource—oil, gas, mineral resources, cultivatable land, human resources—and minimizing the social cost of their depletion should be seriously considered by the state as a necessary condition for economic growth, and sustainable development.

Especially essential, Iraq needs an indigenous, entrepreneurial private sector to contribute more to GDP and public finance. In this respect, a gradual but steady policy of compromise must be pursued to neutralize the political and financial power of oil revenues in domestic politics, and that requires intensive efforts for capacity building of government institutions.

In the short-run, an integrated public works program consisting of labor-intensive projects should be proposed by the federal government (FG) and the governorates, and implemented by private sector.

A New Initiative
Since the collapse of the previous regime, it was clear that the terrorists' strategy has been to obstruct the establishment of a new democratic and secular state in Iraq through the destruction of infrastructure and public utilities, and by disrupting normal economic activities. It was also clear that there exist causal relationships between unemployment, poverty, deterioration of living standards, violence, and terrorist attacks. It was also obvious that the failure of economic policies and widespread corruption have contributed to the perpetuation of this harmful situation.

Despite the lack of public debate and transparency, one part of the virtuous efforts to break these vicious circles is to review and modify current economic policies. Unfortunately, neither the Iraqi government nor its U.S. ally has adopted appropriate economic strategies and policies for dealing with the prevailing acute problems. The government's "National Development Strategy of 2005-2007" (NDS), which was the product of long-term preparations and widely discussed by the IMF and World Bank experts,[2] did very little to improve the present policies made by the former Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA).[3] Although admitting the failure of U.S. economic strategy in Iraq, advocates have not been able to suggest a suitable alternative which recognizes the real driving factors behind the dynamics of Iraq's political economy and set the suitable conditions for economic revival.

Some U.S. advocates suggest that while "the United States will need to maintain its central role in rehabilitating the Iraqi economy," they identify unemployment as the most urgent problem. The remedy they proposed was to implement labor- intensive public works projects through Iraqi private sector and financed by the November 2003 $18.4 billion U.S. grant to Iraq.[4] Contrary to the former U.S. economic policies in Iraq, this suggestion, though viable and necessary to alleviate the acute unemployment, reduces the requirements of Iraq's economic revival and reconstruction to only a public works program. In fact, an urgent public works program in the amount of $2-3 billion has been suggested by the author since mid-2003 in order to tackle the unemployment problem, but was conditioned as part of a comprehensive reconstruction program and consistent with the required macroeconomic policies and structural reforms.[5]

Robert Looney, while admitting the failure of the neo-liberal/Washington Consensus free market development strategy in Iraq, raised his concern that "the danger today is that the current economic malaise will deteriorate to the point where the economy will stabilize in a poverty/violence trap." He has suggested "instead of the neo-liberal stress on liberalization, stabilization, and privatization, the evolutionary approach focuses on creating the institutional underpinning of markets needed to insure strong entrepreneurial development." He also proposed that "distributing a certain percentage of oil revenues to the Iraqi public through the creation of an oil fund would provide added demand for a wide range of domestic consumer goods. Part of this payment to Iraqis could be made conditional on participation in local clean-up programs while short-term training programs were providing the skills needed by private companies."[6] Unfortunately, such propositions may not help to improve economic policy priorities. Even worse, some of the proposals have a demagogic nature such as cash distribution of oil revenues among citizens, while some practices lack transparency such as the "encrypted" monetary policy that hides behind the new law of the central bank.[7]

Significantly, the new U.S. initiative, the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq"[8] of November 2005, has rightly and adequately determined six core assumptions:

Iraq has the potential to be prosperous and self-sustaining;
A free and prosperous Iraq is in the economic interest of everybody;
A growing economy will increase the economic welfare of Iraqis;
Economic change will be steady but gradual;
Iraq can be a reliable and contributing partner in the international community; and
Iraq will need financial support from the region and international community.
Also important, the new U.S. economic strategy in Iraq has identified some challenges that implicitly have more realistic expectations than the former CPA economic laws. These challenges are, increasing oil production, reconstruction of basic infrastructure, increasing electricity production, creating a banking infrastructure, balancing the need for economic reforms, encouraging local and regional capacity building, facilitating progress toward a market-oriented economy by reforming commercial laws, and encouraging many in the region and the international community to disburse their (financial) pledges.

While the identified challenges may be relevant to the overall U.S. strategy in Iraq, they may not help to tackle the real economic problems of the country, as they concentrate the solution on increasing oil production (revenues) and economic growth in terms of GDP. It is true that maximizing oil production is in the interest of Iraq at this stage, but this objective should be subject to many economic, social, political, and institutional conditions which have to be described as clear as the given strategic logic behind the economic track. The strategic assessment of economic progress centers on GDP estimates and growth. However, economic development and the living standards of Iraqis can not be judged at this stage by GDP and GDP per capita estimates simply because the value added by the oil sector is the main share of GDP, as well as the prevailing practical problems surrounding these estimates that reduce their reliability.

This paper is based on propositions that identify Iraq's strategic economic and political elements, macroeconomic policies, structural reforms, and the infrastructure's reconstruction priorities, which were put forward before and after the fall of Saddam's regime.[9] It restates and slightly modifies these proposals to consider the recent changes in the balance of political power and its likely implications as manifested by the importance of the general election and the approval of the new constitution. The latter significantly established the basic civil and political liberties, the federalist system with the decentralization of government decision-making processes, while failing to define clearly the crucial responsibility of the central government in designing oil wealth development strategy and policies, though it highlighted the necessity for close coordination with the FG and governorates.[10] The exclusive role of central government in utilizing oil revenues is vital for the economic revival of a unified Iraq.[11]

Institutionally, an indigenous non-political and independent entity, namely, the Iraqi Development and Reconstruction Council (IDRC), was suggested to assume the reconstruction tasks of nation-wide infrastructure instead of the Development Fund for Iraq (DFI),[12] and to replace the rigid practices of the Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation (MOPDC).[13]

The IDRC would facilitate the sharing of the benefits from oil revenues as recognized by the constitution. It would also encourage public-private participation and preserve mutual interests and coordination with the concerned international parties, mainly USAID, the World Bank, the IMF, the UN, and donor countries. IDRC would also play a major role in the diffusion of modern technology and promote innovation capacities at project levels. It would consider the environmental dimension of the targeted economic growth, and social development—i.e. protecting non-renewable resources, especially oil, gas, and sulphur, as well as improving the skill and expertise of human resources.

The aim of this paper is to advance the national interest by addressing the economic problems that are not taken by the elected parties (government) or by the United States, which continues to play a pivotal political and economic role in Iraq.[14]

This initiative denies implicitly the suggestion that the lack of information and detailed statistical data disrupts the process of designing an adequate economic strategy for Iraq,[15] as well as lessening the use of economic freedom criteria as sufficient conditions for increasing economic growth.[16] Nor does it consider the stable foreign exchange rate of Iraqi dinar to the U.S. dollar as a genuine result of sound economic policy.[17] Instead, the given views put more emphasis on the nation's need for a formal future vision and institutional economic guidelines that would create confidence in government policies, and to influence positively the dynamics of Iraq's strategic factors: oil power, economic and social development, and democracy.[18]

Specifically, the purpose is two-fold:

First, to highlight Iraq's urgent demand for new, and inspiring, economic strategy and policies, as well as for identifying reconstruction priorities within a comprehensive plan.[19] Since Iraq will continue to face leadership and decision-making problems,[20] such an initiative is essential to restore public discipline and regain the authority and credibility that raises hope and maintains public interests.
Second, it argues against the call (imposed) for unconditional adoption of hasty ("shock therapy") economic liberalization.
Iraq's Economic Prospects
The unique strategic advantages of Iraq—its geopolitical position in the Middle East and as a major world energy (oil & gas) supplier,[21] coupled with its human endowment—explains the foreign conflict of interests in the country and the need for a stable and prosperous Iraq. For Iraqis, both the immediate and longer-term task is to utilize its abundant human and natural resources for rebuilding its infrastructure and institutions, preserving political stability and security, sustaining social cohesion, increasing economic growth and employment, diminishing poverty, and raising the living standards.

The Iraqi economic experience during 1950s, 1960s and 1970s proved it has the capacity and political will for achieving higher economic growth and employment as well as for building public utilities and physical and social infrastructure. Indicators of GDP per capita, basic education, public health, social services, expansion of oil production capacities, industrial development (especially electricity and manufacturing industries), transportation, water resources development, irrigation, and flood control all support such positive assessment. However, the backward political agenda of Saddam's dictatorial regime and its misuse of oil revenues have caused a continuous deterioration of the economy since 1980.[22] In particular, the policy of utilization of oil revenues in building the infrastructure was very clear though not successfully implemented. However, compared with the post-war experience from April 2003 to 2005, it was better than current policies and practices.

Indeed, since the fall of Saddam's oppressive regime, the deteriorating economy, the damaged infrastructure, the shortage of public utilities and basic social services, have not been improving as many had hoped and anticipated. In particular, high unemployment has not been alleviated.[23] Since the fall of Saddam's regime, actual oil revenues and government expenditures confirm the increasing reliance on oil revenues.

It was reported that the net proceeds from export sales of petroleum was valued at about US$29.4 billion during the period (May 22, 2003 to June 30, 2005). It exceeded the total amount of US$31.4 billion allocated to the annual budgets (expenditures) of Iraqi ministries, and constituted about 81.5 percent of total payments made by the DFI to cover the overall US$30.0 billion expenditures for government operations and development costs in Iraq during the same period.[24]

Among many factors contributing to this failure, there were terrorist attacks, institutional collapses, corruption, and political uncertainties. However, the lack of economic outlook and inexperience of the political parties, and the apparent incompetence of the government officials as well as of the former CPA advisors, have substantially contributed to this situation.

Specifically, premature calls for economic liberalization, especially privatization of the oil industry, tight fiscal policy, and non-productive reconstruction and occupation expenditures, have damaged the then-strong drive for a free market and a bigger role of private sector. Economic and public finance mismanagement have indeed strengthened the tendency for more state economic intervention and increased corruption. Ironically, only foreign businesses and trade dealers in Iraq have flourished, benefiting from high government and occupation expenditures.

Obviously, economic revival continues to be one of the main challenges that face both elected and future governments. The radical political changes resulting from the election of January 30, 2005, and the approval of the new constitution with obscure oil and economic tasks of the central government, have renewed the impetus for reactivating the suggested economic remedies, as past experience has shown the lack of a proper economic plan.

Indeed, the authorities have failed in clarifying the ambiguity surrounding their radical free market policies. The best of post-war experience was to rely mainly on foreign consulting firms and international institutions that provided standard documents such as private banking laws, central banking laws, neat sheet presentation of annual budget items, and elegant sets of options for reform policies and the identification of infrastructure projects and their financial requirements. While technical assistance for economic governance has cost USAID only about $183.0 million during FY 2003-2006, the efforts fell short with regard to coping with the harsh realities, and keeping up the minimum requirements for stimulating the economy.[25]

Significantly, without a clear economic strategy and policies that determine the allocations of oil revenues between the construction of infrastructure (investment) and the government's annual budgets, present efforts for redirecting public attention towards a promising role of the UN, World Bank, IMF, and the financial contribution of donor countries in the reconstruction of Iraq, would neither alleviate economic hardships nor establish a solid foundation for an efficient market economy and enterprise culture.

Except from the likely benefit of writing-off the non-commercial foreign debt,[26] such politically-oriented promises that lack public debate and serious involvement of native professionals would push out further the aim of creating a successful economic model in Iraq.

NDS Insufficiencies
An analysis of Iraq's NDS ascertains that misconception still dominates the government's and U.S. economic policy in Iraq. NDS is basically an updating and a one-year extension of the previous three-year government's annual budget estimates (2004-2006) to cover the years 2005-2007. Understandably, the new estimates were based on future oil revenues and government expenditures at the time of preparation. Total government expenditures were estimated at US$36,842; $40,511, and $38,354 million for the years 2005, 2006, and 2007, respectively, and total revenues were estimated at US$32,091, $38,913, and $38,890 million for the years 2005, 2006, and 2007—there would be deficits for the years 2005 and 2006, and a surplus for 2007. However, if we consider the anticipated revenues from foreign fund (loans and grants), which constitute 28.0 percent, 25.7 percent and 22.0 percent of total revenues in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007, then the real position of the annual budgets would be huge deficits.

Significantly, oil revenues were assumed to contribute 90.3 percent, 90.9 percent, and 91.6 percent of domestic revenues, whereas taxes were expected to add only 2.7 percent, 2.5 percent, and 2.4 percent in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007. Government investment expenditures were estimated at 16 percent, 16 percent, and 17.7 percent of total government expenditures in the years 2005, 2006, and 2007. Except for these rough estimates, the NDS lacks a consistent strategy and policies that consider the salient economic, social, and political features of the country. It only considers the availability of government financial resources, and the mere belief that the efficiency of market economy would be enough to deal with the existing problems—i.e., economic stagnation, diversification of economic activities, a small role for the private sector, and high unemployment and poverty.

Even its wishful short- and long-term targets reflect limited capacity and narrow prospects. NDS aims to reduce the unemployment rate from 43.8 percent in 2004 to 36.3 percent in 2007 and 21.9 percent in 2015. This is a clear indication of bad planning and inefficient use of public resources. In ten years, the outcome of such huge government expenditures would only reduce unemployment rate to 21.9 percent! What a hope! Poverty in terms of the proportion of the population earning under $1 per day would decrease from 11 percent in 2003 to 8.73 percent in 2007 and 5.3 percent in 2015. However, poverty assessment may be misleading, as more reliable estimates of GDP per capita indicate that the poverty trap is spreading much more than the NDS suggests.[27]

Also, the proportion of the population with sustainable access to improved water would increase from 54 percent in 2004 to only 59 percent in 2007 and 75 percent in 2015. As for other quality of life indicators, the ratio of telephone line and cellular per 100 people would increase from 5.1 in 2004 to only 6.2 in 2007 and 10.2 in 2015. The NDS aims to increase personal computer use per 100 people from 3.6 in 2004 to only 4.3 and 7.2 in the years 2007 and 2015. These are not only very disappointing medium- and long-term targets, but also reflect the narrow vision behind these commitments.

As for GDP growth rate, which was estimated at 4.0 percent in 2005, 16.8 percent in 2006, and 13.6 percent in 2007, the oil sector that contributes between 66 percent to 70 percent of GDP will grow at 1.1 percent, 20.0 percent and 14.6 percent in the same years. Since no details were given on non-oil GDP, such aggregate estimations may disguise the real limited production capacities of non-oil sectors, especially the manufacturing industries, oil products, and agriculture.

It is clear that planners could not reconcile their ideological belief in free market forces as both a necessary and sufficient condition for economic growth and employment with the existing social and political conditions—e.g., the high unemployment, poverty, and the alarming problem of wide disparities in income and wealth which was missing in the NDS' fiscal policies.[28] In general, the NDS also failed to approach the solution of Iraqi economic and social problems within the concept of sustainable development—where the environmental elements, human, and natural non-renewable resources should be considered as important as economic growth.

The NDS adopted a fiscal policy that increases the economic dependence on foreign loans and grants. Since no concrete policy proposals were given to reduce the high dependence on oil revenues and foreign loans, the targeted over-expenditures would only deepen the structural economic problems and corruption. With regard to sector priorities, it was difficult to evaluate them due to a lack of information, although common sense may reach a similar set of general priorities. However, assessed by the aim of the NDS strategy "to weave together macroeconomic and sectoral analyses and proposals into consistent policy fabric that will bring substantial benefits to all regions in Iraqi society," and the given sets of heterogeneous policies and measures included in the so called four pillars of the strategy—i.e., "strengthening the foundation of economic growth, revitalizing the private sector, improving the quality of life, and strengthening good governance and security",[29] then the NDS may be described as a pragmatic short-term fiscal policy for dealing with immediate financial needs of governments.

It is basically a declaration of annual budgets including an unrelated and untidy preamble that elaborates the same foundation pillars set up for Iraq by the former CPA, which are also the same four strategic areas of USAID mission activities in Iraq. Therefore, the same old criticism directed toward CPA policies is also valid for NDS.[30]

Crucial Transition of Economic Governance
Iraq is at a crucial phase of economic governance, and if radical changes are not made immediately, then the country may deviate further from its previously anticipated high economic growth, rapid social development, and flourishing business environment.

The Islamic parties, with their vague and capricious economic views, dominate the country's mainstream politics, while the liberal democrat secular groups are losing their political and economic arguments. Also, the Kurdish nationalists/tribal traditional parties, the second most important political and social power, are trying to distinguish their own economic and financial interests—e.g., strong demand for separate share in oil and natural resources and local tax measures.[31] Such unconstructive political developments, coupled with widespread corruption, would further pressure the central government to depend more on oil revenues, and politically utilize them out of self-interest—and hence restrain the drive for democracy and entrepreneurialism. Such a situation may be aggravated by the likely (financial) dispute among the federal government and governorates that would further increase their dependence on oil revenues and foreign loans.

Politically, in addition to capable leadership and efficient, decentralized, institutional decision-making processes, Iraq needs a new political platform that appeals to the low-income groups, and helps to produce a growing middle class in terms of income, education, and entrepreneurial skill.

At this stage, it is therefore extremely essential for the liberal and social democratic political movements to build a social-political base by promoting a clear economic and social development agenda, where increasing employment opportunities and alleviating poverty are of first priority. At the higher level of decision-making authority, a careful compromise must be reached between high dependence on oil revenues, and the need to increase the contribution of the private sector to the GDP. This is the task of defining a long-term strategy, medium- and short-term policies, and prioritizing the reconstruction of infrastructure, guided by clear vision. Such a desired plan would also help to expose the terrorists and their non-democratic, false, and misleading claims, as well as to combat corruption.

Conclusions
Iraq has the required human and natural resources to become a successful, democratic, and free market economic model in the Middle East. The failure of its current fiscal and monetary policies, economic reforms, and reconstruction of infrastructure necessitates a new initiative.

In addition to political stability and will, the government should have an inspiring future vision and well-defined strategy and policies, rather than old-fashioned practices or business-like management. The pace of the required economic liberalization, and increasing the contribution of the private sector to the GDP and public finance, will depend on the application of an initiative consisting of long-term economic strategy, medium-term structural economic reforms, and short-term fiscal and monetary stabilization policies—as well as the implementation of an integrated program for reconstruction of physical, social, and environmental infrastructure. The tasks of identifying and prioritizing the nation-wide physical and environmental infrastructure projects should be assigned to the indigenous IDRC as an independent state entity.

Such an initiative would help the capacity-building process of the government and market institutions, and also help maintain transparency and accountability, and combat corruption.

Politically, the prior commitment by the government, and the mainstream political parties, to such an initiative is essential to put the economy on the right track for alleviating unemployment, and improving the living standards in the medium- and short -run. It will also help to produce a middle-class as a main economic, social, and political driving force for development in the longer-run.

About the Author
Sabri Zire Al-Saad is an economic adviser who has worked in a number of Arab countries as Chief Technical Advisor, Macroeconomist, and Investment Programmer, and has held senior economic planning and policy posts in Iraq. All given views are the sole responsibility of the author, and do not necessarily represent his employer's opinion or that of any Iraqi political entity. He may be reached by e-mail at: sabri_saadi@hotmail.com.

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References
1. The visionary future energy position of Iraq stems from the most likely future scarcity of oil and gas, rather than Iraq's potentially higher reserves and production capacity or Iraq's low cost of oil production.

2. Republic of Iraq, "National Development Strategy 2005-2007," Iraq Strategic Review Board, Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, June 30, 2005.

3. An evaluation of the CPA's economic policies and reconstruction efforts was given in Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Economic Liberalization and Oil Policy: Vision and Priorities," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 45, No. 29, July 21, 2003.

4. See "Security, Reform, and Peace," Report of the Presidential Study Group, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, 2005, 14-15.

5. Azzaman (Iraqi newspaper), London edition, January 13-15, 2004.

6. See Robert Looney, "A Plan for Revitalizing the Iraqi Economy," Strategic Insights 6, No. 8 (August 2005).

7. Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Oil Revenues and the Foreign Exchange Regime in Iraq," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 47, No. 36, September 6, 2004.

8. See National Security Council, "National Strategy For Victory In Iraq," November 2005, 22-25.

9. See; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "The Iraqi Economic Crisis and Proposition for Change: An Introduction to the Political Economy Features; Oil, Development and Democracy," The Iraqi File, a monthly political and documentary review issued by The Iraqi Centre of Iraqi Studies, London, No. 107, November 2000; republished in Althakafa Aljadida, the Iraqi Intellectuals Periodical Journal, No. 297, December 2000. Also, “Economic Project For Change: Economic Policies and a Program of Action for the New Democratic Regime," unpublished paper presented to the Economy and Infrastructure Group, Future of Iraq Project, U.S. Department of State, October 23, 2002. Also by the author, "Economic Liberalization and Oil Policy: Vision and Priorities," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 45, No. 29, July 21, 2003; "Iraq's Post-War Economy: A Critical Review," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 47, 14, April 5, 2004; "The Iraqi Economy 2003-2004" (Arabic), published in The Gulf Economic Report of 2003-2004 (Dar-Alkhaleej Publishers, Sharqa, United Arab Emirates: November 2003); and "Analytical Vision for Iraq's Economic Prospects," published in Ahmed Kawaz, ed., Tasawarat Hawla Waqi Almustaqbal Aliqtisad Al Iraqi, (Arabic) (Kuwait: Arab Planning Institute, March 2004).

10. Articles no. 107, 108, 109, and 110, "Iraq's Constitution," 2005. It should be noted that clarity of these four articles is needed, as for many articles of the constitution, to define precisely the role of the central government in utilization oil and gas wealth.

11. After the fall of Saddam's regime, I have highlighted such importance: "The political issue of the federal system proposed for Kurdistan has two main economic implications. The first is related to the state’s sovereignty as concerns the ownership and utilization of the country’s natural economic resources. These public resources such as crude oil and gas and minerals, water, land and the rent from the use of Iraqi space and related public utilities shall be public and all its returns belong to the state. The exploitation of these resources by other parties should be arranged on the basis of unified state laws and regulations to be applied in all parts of the country without prejudice based on geography, ethnic, sectarian or religious criteria. The second economic implication of the suggested federal political system is related to the conditions for effective macroeconomic regulatory policies. These should be undertaken and implemented by the central government without geographic and economic bias except for reducing the disparity in public wealth’s distribution and development indicators when necessary." See, Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "The Economic Revival of Iraq," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 46, No. 35, September 1, 2003.

12. The DFI was established by the UN-SC resolution 1483 dated May 21, 2003 and operates under the control of UN, IMF, WB, and Coalition forces, playing the role of treasury for both the government and the Central Bank of Iraq. Since the implementation of UN-SC resolution 1546 dated June 8, 2004, Iraq became a full member of the DFI board of directors. However, the Advisory and Monitoring Board for Iraq (IAMB) was established as an audit for the DFI, and aims to ensure that the DFI is used in a transparent manner for the benefit of the people of Iraq, and export sales of petroleum, petroleum products, and natural gas from Iraq are made consistent with prevailing international market best practices.

13. Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Oil and Iraq's Economic Strategy," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 48, No. 51, December 19, 2005.

14. "Security, Reform, and Peace," Op. Cit.

15. Robert Looney, "Corruption's Reflection: Iraq's Shadow Economy," Strategic Insights 4, No. 3, March 2005.

16. Robert Looney, "Corruption in the Middle East: Challenges Posed for United States," Strategic Insights 3, No. 11, November 2004; "2005 Index of Economic Freedom," The Heritage Foundation and Dow Jones & Company, Inc., 2005. An examination of the EFI effectiveness was given in Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Economic Freedom Criteria and Iraq's Economic Policies," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 48, No. 28, June 26, 2005.

17. See; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Oil Revenues and the Foreign Exchange Regime in Iraq," Op. Cit.

18. No attempt was made at this stage to provide detailed proposals and institutional measures for the implementation of this initiative.

19. In reality, given the weak political foundations and incapable economic institutions, a non-government Iraqi-led professional team may undertake the initial phase of such a huge task.

20. Earlier, I have concluded that for effective and successful economic policy three important conditions have to be emphasized. "First, given concerted political efforts and effective leadership, the successful implementation of any new economic policies will need a qualified economic team to supervise, coordinate, and follow them up. Team members should have common objectives in strategy and policies, and full awareness of the policy implications;" "Second, the impact of any set of economic and fiscal and monetary policies will require frequent assessment. This means that good coordination and understanding must prevail among the ministries of finance, trade, and planning, and the CBI'" and "Third, individual economic liberties can not be fully practiced, nor can constructive business be established or the private entrepreneurial sector allowed to flourish without institutional economic order, i.e. an overall strategy, economic objectives and policies, rule of law, institutional and administrative procedures, and a sound physical infrastructure." Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Iraq's Post-War Economy: A Critical Review," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 47, No. 14, April 5, 2004.

21. On the history of foreign interests in Iraq's oil and its impact on domestic economic, social, and political development, see Edith and E.R. Penrose, IRAQ: International Relations and National Development (Ernest Benn Ltd., 1978).

22. General assessment of the development planning and progress in Iraq during this period was given in Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Oil and Iraq's Economic Strategy," Op. Cit.

23. Such general evaluation of post-war experience is widely reported by almost all concerned parties, though with different reasoning and alternative suggestions. See Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, Audit Report: Oversight of Funds Provided to Iraqi Ministries through the National Budget Process, Report No. 05-004, January 30, 2005. The report stated "the CPA provided less than adequate controls for approximately $8.8 billion in DFI funds provided to Iraqi Ministries through the national budget process. Specifically, the CPA did not establish or implement sufficient managerial, financial, and contractual controls to ensure DFI funds were used in transparent manner. Consequently, there was no assurance the funds were used for the purpose mandated by (UN-Security council) Resolution 1483." Also see: Robert Looney, "A Return to Baathist Economics: Escaping Vicious Circles in Iraq," Strategic Insight 3, No. 7, July 2004; Carl Conetta, "Radical Departure: Towards a Practical Peace in Iraq," Project on Defense Alternatives, Briefing Report No. 16, Commonwealth Institute, Cambridge, MA, July 7, 2004; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Iraq's Post-War Economy: A Critical Review," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 46, No, 14, April 5, 2004.

24. International Advisory and Management Board for Iraq; Development Fund for Iraq, Statements of Cash Receipts and Payments for the periods from May 22, 2003 to June 30, 2005.

25. USAID-Iraq, "Reconstruction Weekly Update," November 18, 2005.

26. Ironically, the IMF and WB were concerned to ensure their financial interests in Iraq while calling for Iraq's financial help. The Iraqi budget for 2004 allocated (under the DFI control) about $453.3 million as IMF and WB arrears. Allocation for Kuwait war reparation was about $708.78 million. See, Republic of Iraq, "Revision to 2004 Budget Ministerial Allocations," Ministry of Finance and Ministry of Planning and Development, March 2004, issued on April 10, 2004. War reparations for the years 2005-2007 were estimated at US$1,040; $1,314; and $1,460 million respectively.

27. In the absence of reliable and published government estimates of GDP for the period before and after 2003, in our opinion the real poverty rates in Iraq in terms of per capita GDP are much higher. See Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "Oil Wealth and Poverty in Iraq: Statistical Adjustment of Government GDP Estimates (1980-2002)," Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) 48, No. 16, April 18, 2005.

28. It is interesting to notice that while there is no multi-bracket tax policy considered by the NDS fiscal policy, the constitution clearly exempts low-income individuals from taxes.

29. Ibid., ix.

30. Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, "The Economic Revival of Iraq," Op. Cit.

31. There has been agreement among the main political parties that the country's natural resources, especially oil, is a publicly owned and its utilization must be the responsibility of the central government. See CPA, "Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period," March 8, 2004. The new constitution confirms such agreement.

-- October 24, 2006 10:57 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,
What is it called---

When something is uniquely unrecognizable to it's own species because of INTENTIONAL REDESIGN( or customizing--if you will) of it's intracellular characteristics?

*
*
*
*
*
answer: Taylor-made

-- October 24, 2006 11:08 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Hi, I haven't had time to check in lately. Good to see this is still an active site.

I just read the latest issue of Maclean's Magazine. It's Canada's answer to Time Magazine. The cover story is on the coming threat from Islam.

It kind of puts the war in Iraq in a global perspective. Here's a few highlights:

First he talks about much of what we have thought of as Europe, disappearing, which will happen this century. All the countries we know: France, Germany, England, etc., will still be there. They will be just different. They will be Muslim. "The salient feature of Europe, ..... is that they are running out of babies...Greece has a fertility rate of 1.3 births per couple, which is what demographers call the lowest low fertility point, from which no human society has ever recovered. And Greece's fertility is the highest in the Mediterranean. Italy has a fertility rate of 1.2, Spain 1.1."

In short, for those living in Europe, sorry, but your civilization, your country, at least as you've known it, is pretty much over. Now, the article explains that all these countries in Europe will not be without people. There is one population group within Europe that has a high growth rate. Three guesses as to which population that is.

Correct. It's Muslim. Already there are 50 million Muslims in Europe. And they are having big families. The average Muslim family size is 3.5 children. Anybody out there planning on having kids, and living in Europe? Your grandchildren will live in an Islamic Europe. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

This is not mere conjecture, or speculation. It's based on hard numbers. It's what is happening right now. It's what has been happening demographically since the 1960s. There is no extrapolation here. If Italy has only 100,000 Italians born this year, then in 20 years, there can only be 100,000 twenty year olds. The solution, of course, for governments in Europe, for this shortfall, has been to import Muslim immigrants, for the past 40 years.

This explains something in the news the other day. In Afghanistan, where NATO forces are fighting the Taliban, the top Canadian general was complaining that most European countries with soldiers there refused to let them get involved in combat situations. Why? There are lots of young Muslims at home. No sense getting them all riled up. Especially since the European in your population are mostly older, and the Muslims in your populations are mostly younger.

There is only one exception to this trend, in the Western World: The United States. It's fertility rate is 2.1, which is the breakeven rate for sustaining a population.

Now, most Muslims are not evil people. But the dominant groups in Islam are radical, with clearly stated goals of dominating competing societies. Iranian Shiites have declared war on the West, as have Wahabbists from Saudi Arabia. The only question is which branch of Islam will it be that takes over Europe. Radicals will be able to move freely within European Muslim populations, as they conquer Europe.

This explains why Europeans are reluctant to participate on the War on Terror. For Americans, the war is over there somewhere, across the sea. For Europeans, the smart ones recognize already, that for them, the confrontation with Islam is a civil war. The car burnings in France and the riots over the Danish cartoons were the opening shots in that European civil war. So for those Americans reading this who are irritated at the lame, half-hearted European help in the war on terror, just wait 10 or 20 years, and Europe is more solidly Islamified, to see what kind of help you get from Eurabia.

Interesting quote by the leader of Libya, Colonel Gadhafi,: "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe--without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

Now, if English Muslims and German Muslims and Danish Muslims thought of themselves as English and German and Danish first, and shared their values and their identities, this would not be a problem. But this is not the case. Large segments of the Muslim populations in Europe actually report in surveys that they despise the societies they are in, and it's values. Muslims in Europe report that they do not feel like they are English or German or Danish. That is not their primary identity. They report that their primary identity and loyalty is to Islam, not to their country. That's why these people will not integrate into Europe. They will take it over.

It is interesting that the Church of England is considering removing St. George as the country's patron saint on the grounds that it is insensitive to Muslims, since historically he led wars against Islamic foes. They wish to replace St. George's Cross, which is on the Union Jack, with St. Alban's cross. St. Alban was a more meek saint. He would be represented on the new Union Jack by his sign, a thin yellow streak.

Here's an interesting quote from Norwegian Mullah Krekar: "We're the ones who will change you. Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims in Europe is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children." He then summed it up: "Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."

-- October 24, 2006 11:20 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Interesting article-dated 9/11/06 (not from the same individual as previous-much shorter-but interesting)

The Unique Situation of the Iraqi Dinar
A backgrounder on the Iraqi dinar, including details on why the Iraqi dinar is positioned for a huge rise in value.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By: Roger Isaksson (email)
Published: 09/11/2006
this author's past articles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iraq Dinar is set up in a very simple, almost crude fashion. The set up was a quick fix after the invasion, seeing that the banking sector in Iraq was about as developed as a model T. Without a modern bank system in place, the "crude and simple" was chosen as a workable interim model.

A Brief History of the Dinar
With Saddam's face plastered all over it, the old dinar had to go. The Saddam dinar also was of very low quality, and could be easily forged on a simple copy machine.

After the invasion, new bills were immediately ordered, but due to the enormous amount needed, some of the old Saddam dinars continued to be printed and circulated until the new ones arrived.

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The new dinar bills started to arrive, and they brought with them all the modern safety features one would expect. A wide spread of denominations was chosen, both to make the daily handling easier, and to cover for value variations in it's exchange. Finally, a reasonable time period was granted in order to allow the citizens of Iraq to swap the old Saddam, and "Swiss" dinar in.

The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI)
The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) was set up as an auction system, with the CBI sitting on the newly printed currency, auctioning older outdated dinars and other foreign currencies with Iraqi banks for new dinars. Now that the currency exchange has been completed, the CBI also sends nearly half of it's daily auction of dinars to foreign banks in Kuwait, Jordan and beyond.

If you go to the CBI official website you will see the daily auction, the currency is now primarily sold in exchange for US dollars. The CBI is slowly but surely acquiring US dollars to help back the worth of the dinar. Everyday the amount of dollars in it's vaults increases.

The exact number of dinars in print, in circulation or on hold at the CBI is exactly known. By doing some very simple steps, full control is achieved through:

Limit the amount a person can bring with him if he is leaving Iraq, to a very small amount (in this case, 100,000 dinar);
Knowing the exact amount sold to banks outside of Iraq.
Once you know the amount of dinars out there, viola, you have complete control over it's fate. The CBI simply sells more or less to hold the dinar in a position exactly where they want it to be.

Given this situation, the dinar will not strictly be pegged. It has been called 'pegged' by some, but in reality you will have some small fluctuations on the dinar value, which you have likely noticed if you have followed it over time. These fluctuations are a balancing act by the CBI.

Simply put, truly pegged currencies don't move from the currency it is pegged to.

This is the basic Iraqi dinar system. Now some may already be asking, that if the Dinar is endlessly sold, wouldn't it flood the market, making them worthless? No, because you have exchanged your US dollars for your dinar, which helps to back the dinar through the above explained CBI mechanism.

Now, this is a very temporary system. Interested readers will of course note that any currency that is not free flowing is a hindrance to full economic development. This fall, new Iraq investment laws are suppose to be passed by the elected Iraqi parliament, allowing international investment companies (read: Big Oil) to invest.

At this very moment, oil company survey and geological teams are crisscrossing the desert, testing grounds, staking claims and hopefully not giving each other a black eye. Again, this is not Iraq government, US government, US Government contractors, US armed forces, etc. running around, this is oil companies. The future mega investment in Iraq which will help drive the economy forward.

A Question of Priorities
Some may ask if we shouldn't take care of the violence first. If Joe Everyman is building a house, is it relevant that his young children are fighting? The short answer is that 'Big Oil' is operating in many areas of the world where violence is the norm, not the exception.

By last June it was announced that no more printing of the dinar is necessary, meaning that we are most probably in the end part of the 'first stage', and are ready for the dinar revaluation. It would be an suicidal economically to leave the dinar in it's current low range, and let the oil companies come in 'on the cheap'. The dinar MUST have a much higher value at that time, otherwise Iraqi will be sold off for literally pennies, or dinars, on the dollar.

While the exact arrangement of the investment law is not yet settled, deals have already been made in how the oil revenue will be shared amongst the different regions and groups in Iraq. So things are moving forward.

It is not yet known if the revaluing of the dinar will be an overnight thing, with no previous announcements, or if it will be a gradual increase as necessary. It should be pointed out that the value of many oilfields in Iraq is also not fully known, because actual modern geological surveys have not been done for decades, if at all, but even with this lack of recent study, the known reserve in the ground rivals that of Saudi Arabia. It is hoped that in the next decade, Iraq will achieve the same oil output as its southern neighbor. Nobody can deny that the potential is there.

From the time the pumps start working, Iraqi society will start getting more and more benefits from the oil revenue. The finances will be available for roads, schools, the electric grid, social programs, new equipment, better computers, etc. These oil-funded infrastructure improvements will help drive manufacturing, and in turn, generate more jobs. Social unrest is handled with police and justice, but it must also be handled with economics. A prosperous nation is a happy nation.

Finally, Iraq has been blessed with something very few Arab countries have. Water. The agricultural heartland of Iraq have one of the highest potentials of big development. With proper development, it could be the Iraqi equivalent of the orchards and fields of California's central valley. This development and the potential of it will only strengthen the dinar now and in the future.

Exciting Times, a Positive Direction
For the dinar, these are exciting times, but even more interesting when it comes to investing in the Iraq stock exchange, because as the oil revenue will start making things possible in Iraq, the opportunities to be in on the ground floor on different investment start ups, will increase. Knowing this is a nation destined for great wealth it makes it even more exciting.

Saudi Arabia, Dubai, the Arab Emirates and Kuwait; are they rich and prosperous states? Of course they are. Why are they wealthy? Oil. Oil is money. Iraq is practically floating on oil. When do the oil companies want to start pumping? ... Yesterday.

Will Iraq continue to be a poor nation? Will the dinar continue to be at it's all time low?

**END ARTICLE**

The opinions expressed above are solely those of the individual contributing authors, and do not necessarily reflect those of ISX Data Services.

-- October 24, 2006 11:51 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

A couple of additional comments on my last post. I see the war in Iraq, on which we have bet lots of money, as part of an ongoing global struggle between Islam and the West.

As I have previously indicated, it is likely that Europe will be Muslim sometime this century. The low birth rate among native Europeans means their populations are halved each 40 years. If there are 30 million Spaniards right now, in 40 years there will be 15 million, and in another 40 years, only 7.5 million, and so on, each generation. Since there are 50 million Muslims, presently, in Europe, and they are having 3.5 children per couple, there will be over 150 million Muslims in Europe in only one generation, just before mid-century, and half a billion at this century's end.

In short, Europe, as we have known it, for all it's history, that gave birth to the modern world, most of it's ideas, and science, is dying. Each and every European country, with all their varied history and cultures and languages all have one thing in common: They are dying.

History abhors a vacuum. European refuse to perpetuate their kind, so they are being taken over by a radical religion.

I subscribe to Samuel Huntington's Theory that we are in a Clash of Civilizations, which was the name of one of his books. He came up with this theory, in his book, of the same name. President Bush likes to pretend Islam is a religion of peace, and that we are not in a clash of civilizations, and he has said so, but I think this is nonsense. Muslims are trying to take over the world. I know they are because of things they keep saying. Things like, "Hey, we want to take over the world..... What part of, we want to kill you, don't you understand?"

Now, in this context, the Americans invading Iraq, I consider to be a counter-assault, to Islam's assault on the West. September 11 was a wakeup call to America. It was a smack in the head with a two by four. It said, "hey, the war is on, infidel".

Islam is basically telling Amercia: "Hey, we want to kill you, or dominate you. Are you listening, infidel Jew-loving pigs?"

Now, I really could generally care less who won any clash of civilizations, involving religion, since I am not that religious a person. But the problem is, Islamic extremists, the dominant voices in Islam, will make life hell for people once they take over. They subscribe to a world-view that I consider, to be basically insane, and destructive to human dignity.

For instance, Islam does not allow the consumption of alcohol. As someone who is part Irish, and born with three kidneys, which I work out frequently, and whose two best friends are two fellows named Jack Daniels and Jim Beam, that really pisses me off. To me, Islamic ideas about prohibition are reason enough to invade a couple of more of their countries. Also, no more Bud? You gotta be kidding. What's next? NFL Football? Sacrilige!

In my opinion, in this coming century, it will be up to America to stop the Islamic extemist tide from over-running and ruining the world.

In the long run, if Europe is going to simply roll over and die, I hope America affects Islamic culture as much as they will be affecting Western culture. It's obvious Islam is taking over Europe. My hope is that in the coming century, America takes on radical Islam as much as they are taking on the West. Winning in Iraq, imposing democracy, and making a pile of money for Tim Bitts and friends would be a good start.

America definitely has the means to accomplish this goal. Does it have the will? Does it have a clue as to the enormous positive stakes of this war, psychologically, for Islam, should the Americans lose?

Stay tuned.

Don't ask a liberal. Their brains died in the 1960s. In Ted Kennedy's case, his brain cells died the old fashioned way, one scotch at a time.

Radical Islam will be emboldened, if America loses it's nerve in Iraq. If democracy finally, bloodily succeeds in Iraq, it would be a positive sign for how this century can turn out.

If democracy wins in Iraq, and then spreads throughout the middle east, then Western ideas will dominate, even as Europeans go largely extinct in Europe. The future for mankind, for this next century, hangs in the balance, by a thread. The stakes have never been higher. Should America lose, we could be entering another Dark Age, and our grandchildren, and their grandchildren will suffer for our weakness.

It's interesting to have an investment in, basically, history, and the defining historical and political question of this next century.

Of course, all this is good and well, and true, as far as I know, but I still want my millions and a house in the Bahamas, and a cold margarita in my hand, and a warm Margarita on my arm. Then, after the pig roast, I can toast and meet my virtual friends, who have given me so much information and entertainment.

-- October 25, 2006 1:08 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

TAYLOR wrote, QUOTE:

Carl-- FO?? Come on now.. you can do better than that.

====end of quote===

TAYLOR, how would these words of Jesus do instead then? :)

Mat 16:23 "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Mary Lou;

Thanks for the posts, "Liberalization Strategy For Iraq's Oil-Hostage Economy".. "Iraq's National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies" and particularly "The Unique Situation of the Iraqi Dinar".. which states this great tidbit, "Will Iraq continue to be a poor nation? Will the dinar continue to be at it's all time low?"... they are all a good read.

Carole... creative, and funny. Thanks. :)

Tim Bitts;

Interesting Maclean's Magazine article.. obviously the threat of radical Islam and its role in world affairs (particularly the ME) affects our investment a lot.

"Muslims in Europe report that they do not feel like they are English or German or Danish. That is not their primary identity. They report that their primary identity and loyalty is to Islam, not to their country. That's why these people will not integrate into Europe. They will take it over."

And we are not to discuss religion because it is politically incorrect and impolite? This "loyalty to Islam, not to their country" should be dealt with like the US dealt with Communists.. by rooting out those who are of that mindset as enemies of this government Union. Pussyfooting around and acting all Politically Correct will only cause those doing so to lose the war. Supposing our ancestors did the same thing with radical Communist ideology? Just because it is a religious ideology (radical Islam) which threatens us now instead of a political ideology (Communism) does not mean we should back down for politeness' sake.

I agree with your assessment, Tim Bitts, where you say, QUOTE:

"President Bush likes to pretend Islam is a religion of peace, and that we are not in a clash of civilizations, and he has said so, but I think this is nonsense. Muslims are trying to take over the world. I know they are because of things they keep saying. Things like, "Hey, we want to take over the world..... What part of, we want to kill you, don't you understand?"

Now, in this context, the Americans invading Iraq, I consider to be a counter-assault, to Islam's assault on the West. September 11 was a wakeup call to America. It was a smack in the head with a two by four. It said, "hey, the war is on, infidel".

Islam is basically telling Amercia: "Hey, we want to kill you, or dominate you. Are you listening, infidel Jew-loving pigs?"

If democracy wins in Iraq, and then spreads throughout the middle east, then Western ideas will dominate, even as Europeans go largely extinct in Europe. The future for mankind, for this next century, hangs in the balance, by a thread. The stakes have never been higher. Should America lose, we could be entering another Dark Age, and our grandchildren, and their grandchildren will suffer for our weakness.

===end of quote===

I couldn't agree with you more..

And one more thing.. IF the US does indeed do a coup of Iraq.. peaceful resigning of Maliki or ouster which is otherwise.. the ones they finally install there had better be nothing more than a puppet who will indeed do exactly as they are told by the West because if they install any other Muslim, they won't do a peg either.. because we are fighting their RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY (say it slowly.. Reeeeligious Ideeeeology) and any Muslim they stick in power after Maliki will still be loyal to Islam over the West, no matter how "moderate" they are (just like in Europe)... thus bucking the US and its policies (fiscal and otherwise) for the region. Who CARES if we look PC? Simply do the job right so we don't lose this war. Please. (polite grin) :)

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 4:37 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I would like to cast my vote for the next PM of Iraq to be General Georges Sada...

Laura.. would he be open to the job? :)

I believe that he is a native to the country of Iraq (or of Middle Eastern descent), but he isn't of their mindset (Reeeeligious Ideeeology) - am I right, Laura?

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 4:55 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

General Sada would be seen as tough on militias (which Maliki will cannot be).. and his credentials as a General will come in handy there..

Plus, he can speak the language.. and so he can get along with the people.

Why can such a thing not be done? We need someone without the subversive ideology which prevents progress..

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 5:15 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

sub/ver/sive

/səb/v/rs/v/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [suhb-vur-siv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. Also, subversionary /səbvrənri, -ə-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [suhb-vur-zhuh-ner-ee, -shuh-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. tending to subvert or advocating subversion, esp. in an attempt to overthrow or cause the destruction of an established or legally constituted government.

–noun 2. a person who adopts subversive principles or policies.

—Synonyms 1. traitorous, treacherous, seditious, destructive.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subversive

=============================================

Tim Bitts;

ANY ideology - whether political OR RELIGIOUS that teaches violent insurrection against the government (is subversive of the government's order and good governing) should not be allowed to continue if that government wishes to continue to exist.

=============================================

in/sur/rec/tion

/nsə/r/k/ən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-suh-rek-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1) an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.

2) The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.

3) the act or an instance of revolting esp. violently against civil or political authority or against an established government; also : the crime of inciting or engaging in such revolt - whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States…shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years — U.S. Code

4) n : organized opposition to authority; a conflict in which one faction tries to wrest control from another [syn: rebellion, revolt, rising, uprising]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insurrection

-- October 25, 2006 5:49 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi all,

Can't answer any post right now. Just got up to get something to drink and I have to be back on the job in 4 hours. But let me just say that the last several postings are very impressive. You guys are so smart and are well read.

Sara, I will answer your response about biblical views on war. Let me just say that I think we are both on the same page with most everything. Maybe you misunderstood me. Essentially I don't have a solid biblical reference, but I can see that you do and that is great. I agree that Jesus spoke ckearly to living and dying by the sword was not in the plan of God.

One question I do have, though, is: What do you think Jesus meant when He said" I have not come to replace the Law ( old Testament) but ot fufill it"

I don't think there is any descrepancies between the old testament and the new.I believe that the whole Bible is the Living word of God, from Genesis to Revelations.

I am interested in your view of that.

Chris

I have Pastor Haggee's book on my shelf. I ordered it recently, but have not gotten to read it. I am reading the Culture Warrior by Bill O Reilly.

This discussion forum has cut into my reading time!!haha, but I will get to it quickly.

Have you ever read New World Order, by Pat Robertson?

I read it about 3 months before the SOviet Union dismantled ( which by the way , I think is a smoke screen). I think it is time to go back and read it again. If my memory serves me well, he is right on with what is happeniong today around the world.

Hey, what happened to Roger?

Sara
I think your findings on the internet lawsuit is interesting. But I woudl sure like to know more details.

I wished there wouold be more law suits against the internet poronography stuff that is really ruining our kids.

Hey! does this mean I could sue Roger for calling me a Nazi????:} :} Naaa!! I don't believe in suing anyway, and besides I want him to have enough money to go to the pig bake WTDH. I may be going after-all.

I may have to cancel my dinner plans with the RE friend tonight because my mom is real sick and I don't have and evening nurse to take care of her tonight... but I am sure anxious to talk to him....

-- October 25, 2006 6:11 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

Cloaking violent insurrection against the government and subversive ideology in religious terms - "struggle" "jihad" "holy war" and the like - should not be allowed by the government, (for its own preservation) should it? (ie "struggle" - against whom? If the answer is the government, that is insurrection)

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 6:42 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

A friend sent this to me from Iraq. I can't remenmber if it's been posted here before....if so, it won't hurt to read it again.
===================================================================================
Dream Speech

My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed, the new Iraqi Government is in place, the dinar is on par with our dollar and American Oil Companies are currently drilling for much needed oil. Iraq is at peace with their neighbors.

Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq . This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hellholes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home. On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France , or maybe China .

I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France, Germany, and Russia . Thanks for all your help comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York .

Mexico is also on List 2. Their entire corrupt government really needs an attitude adjustment. I will have a few extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway.

Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. They care.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."

Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America . It is time to eliminate homelessness in America .

To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America . Thank you and good night.

-- October 25, 2006 9:09 AM ∞

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Terri wrote:

I just read on another forum that the CBI was closed for ten days! Is that true? I haven't heard that befor now. Does anyone know why?

-- October 25, 2006 9:19 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Terri....

Rumors have been flying all over the place about why the CBI has been down. I also check on Warka Bank which has also been down for a couple of weeks. Warka indicates they are down for up-grading and maintenance.

A lot of people believe the downtime is because an RV will happen very soon and the CBI is in a holding position.

I believe the downtime is due to a massive hardware/software up-grade at the CBI and Banks to get ready to handle international action related to their stock market. A lot of staff training would have to be conducted also.

Some rumors thought the systems were down due to failure. As a Systems Engineer, I had to discount this idea because critical applications like Central Banks and Refineries have configurations that won't allow them to go completely down. Instead they rely on back-up hardware that allows them to go into a "graceful degradation" mode without missing a beat.

I'm not 100% sure of what they're doing but I know it's forward progress and that's good for all of us Dinarholics.

-- October 25, 2006 10:11 AM ∞

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terrance wrote:

President Bush, in his morning news conference moments ago said - "As General Casey has said, we have not lost a single battle in Iraq."

Is it possible to win every battle and lose the war? Well, in the Revolution of 1775 that began on the Lexington Green and birthed our great nation, the British won nearly every battle, yet lost the war.

I'm all for staying the course, but winning all the battles doesn't always mean winning the war.

I hope our leaders aquire soon a clear vision on this Iraqi war.....and soon!

May God bless our troops, their families back home, and may He at the same time give our leaders wisdom in prosecuting the war on Jihadist, Islamic Facism.

Keep the pig on ice....for now.

On the West Coast,

Terrance

-- October 25, 2006 10:59 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

The war in Iraq is much more than a war against Muslim fataticism. It is a war to truly establish a democracy in a troubled part of the world. It is also about controlling the world's largest oil reserves.

Once a democracy is established and the oil begins to flow (all under U.S. control) we will have a permanent military base there to quickly strike both Iran and Syria if necessary. Israel will benefit by having its most powerful allie in the region. Furthermore, a U.S. military presence In Iraq will provide President Karzai much needed support.

From an economic perspective an Iraq emerging from its current dark period with its 70 % inflation and its poverty that is replaced with prosperity will cheapen the production of oil. Drive its price down further and break the back of the OPEC oil cartel. This war may also bring much needed peace to this troubled region.

Establishing a democracy, military base, and oil control are not negative. In fact, Iraq like Japan in the far east will be a valuable allie. It is my contention while George W. Bush may not by a Rhodes scholar, he is a very smart tactician. Regardless of the media back-lash and the do nothingness of the Democrats, our interest must be first. GWB is placing our interest first over that of the rest of the world. In my mind, this is what a President is suppose to do. A peaceful and prosperous Iraq does serve our best interest.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 25, 2006 11:16 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Hi, I was just reading in The Guardian, a top Brit daily. It seems the President of Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejaid, agrees with me, about the future of Europe. He also has a plan. He wants to increase the number of Iranians, from the present number, 70 million, to 120 million. The goal here, he says, and he is quite upfront about it, is to take over the West.

See:

www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/O,,1929705,00.html

Lots of little boys now, mean lots of grown up soldiers and emigrants in 20 years, I guess. His views on Europe are similar to mine. If Europeans don't want their societies, their continents, their resources, their technology, and their amazing cultural achievements, in every field, from art to science, then Muslims will be glad to take all that off their hands.

So he wants Iranian women to make lots of babies, so they can export them to Europe, to take over the continent from all the old, dying white people, for the glory of Islam.

It's a perfect match, I think. Iran has 25% unemployment, so lots of the young people have nothing to do. Europeans forgot to have children, so there is no one to take over when they die, or even pay for their bills as they get old.

Solution? Hans and Jacque get young Mohammed to immigrate to Europe, to work and keep paying their bills for a few years, during their old age, so their pension money doesn't dry up. Once they die, Mohammed gets the keys to the place.

That's the deal. A continent for a pension.

Hans and Jacque get to keep their pensions going, because Iran will send the workers to keep European economies going, so the money will be there for the old white people, for a while.

Then, after a while, the old white guys die off. At that point, Mohammed gets to take over the place. Wow! What a deal! It's a win-win situation!

Kinda reminds me of other famous "deal". In 1626 Peter Minuit bought New York's Manhattan Island from the Canarsie Indians for a load of cloth, beads, hatchets, and various trinkets, altogether, worth about $24 dollars.

Of course, Jacque in France has a lot of experience making "deals". The middle one third of the United States was purchased by America, from the French, in 1803, for 3 cents and acre. Sweet deal.

Then there was that other famous "deal" that Christians on this site will be familiar with:

Genesis 25:24

"When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau. After this, his brother came out, with his hand grasping Esau's heel; so he was named Jacob....The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter.....Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished.

He said to Jacob, 'Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I'm famished!'...Jacob replied, 'First, sell me your birthright'

{the eldest born in those days had some distinct and large advantages when it came to inheritance of wealth}

'Look, I am about to die.' Esau said. 'What good is the birthright to me?' So Esau swore an oath, selling his birthright to Jacob."

Well, it turned out that Isaac, the father of the two boys, died before the boys did, so Esau kinda got screwed on the inheritance. He shouldn't have sold his inheritance for a bowl of stew.

An island for some trinkets, a birthright for a bowl of stew, a third of the United States at three cents an acre, a continent for a pension. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. As P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

-- October 25, 2006 1:17 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Carole,

I have read "New World Order" a long time ago. I should read it again. I've moved a few times since but it must be on a shelf somewhere.

For those with a weak spiritual constitution then please go directly to A2 to skip the "religious" stuff

A1

Carole. I appreciate your comment about Jesus coming to fulfill the law rather than abolish. This was exactly what I was thinking in reading some of the past posts.

I want to address this as I think there maybe soldiers reading occasionally who could get the wrong impression about how The Bible reads in regards to their task in the sand box. The Bible makes a clear distinction between Killing (murder) and war. The Bible defines murder as lying in wait for someone (translation - stalking with a premeditated intent to kill). War in the Bible is associated, if only in part, with an army pruning evil. "lying in wait" is clearly described as an evil person about to murder the innocent. Evil grows in the world. Evil is like kudzu, if it is not pruned regularly then it will take over. God sent the Israelis into battle and further instructed them to utterly destroy evil people. Did Jesus come and say "I'm sorry, God was wrong? He sinned by sending Israel into battle?". I say no.

Hitler grew evil that required war to prune. Communism grew evil in Vietnam that required pruning. The latest is that Saddam/Al Qaeda grew evil that must be pruned if evil in the world is to stay in balance. For those who see this as God's interference, take heart, there will come a time when God will cease to prune evil and leave the world to it's own devices but it will end up being an ugly time in history. For the moment, God is active in current world events.

A2

To those in the sandbox, Be encouraged, you are engaged in an evil pruning exercise that I believe is orchestrated by God and we have his support. As sweet as that may be, it may be sweeter if you are smart enough to buy some Dinar.

This has not been Paul Harvey and this is not page 4 but I will have a "good day" when RV arrives.

-- October 25, 2006 1:49 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hi all,

I'm pretty busy in my biz for a while and will not have the op to get on the board, as much as in the past ( hey, there seem to be no lack of enthusiasm on the posting site)

I will in fact be so darn tight up that I will have a bit hard time to actually kep up with all the postings, I try but once the whole thing have started to get under my control a bit, I will be in a better position.

In the meanwhile, you'll all behave now., ok.

Mary Lou,

The article you posted was an article I wrote some time ago, and it was posted onthe ISX site, I did get some flak back on it on a technichality. The Dinars are acutioned, but it's a reversed auction, where Dollar is auctioned off. The participating banks are almost( but not all) state controlled banks. In essence they are auctioning Dollars to themselves, and have enough of overspill to have a Dollar Dinar fluctuation.

Just wanted to get that in there in case you read the article, and went to the actrual CBI site and saw, that it's Dollars auctioned.

Was through this with a guy from another site, and ended up that I had to give a detailed account of the exact workings of the CBI before he was happy enough to leave the issue alone.

The article was an attempt to give a general description of how the set up is, and not a detailed account of the inner workings of CBI.

Regarding coup or not.

If it will happen or not, there's nothing we can do about it.

From the last time I was here and discussed it, until now, that was just a couple of days inbetween, there have been a lot of buzz on getting the current Iraqi Government in business.

Well, I say, if they manege to turn it around with the current government, I must say that they are in that case doing a hell of a good job.

The best deal of it all is, that everything will go nice and ducky with what they have down there.

One might have a thought, howcome it was let go so far in the first place. I believe it is past the go/no go point, but if I see a turnaround now, I might be a believer in the other side.

terrance,

One might say that Vietnam was one of those wars, where we won every battle and lost the war.

Technically I'm not completely sure if this is a historical fact, there might have been some battles that the VietCong won, but they were very far and few inbetween, they got beaten on the battle field in a pretty consistent way.

Terri, Okie,

I understand also that the CBI's pjuters have been down, why, don't have a clue. It might not nessessarily mean anything except that it's down, in a place where electricity is down almost all the time, it's easy to get computer glitches.

Just by starting the automatic backup system, is usually a lag on a couple of seconds, between 5 to 15 or so,enough to screw up pjuters. It's good enough for a doctor in a hospital operating on a patient, but pjuters have a tendency to get nuts, if they are not fed a constant diet of volts.

Even if you have battery banks, the system must first fail before the reserve can react, and even small time units, is very disruptive.

Well I really dont know if this is the actual reason for all this computer problem in Iraq. The country as a whole have improved, but the general area of Baghdad have declined though, espacially the last months, so, well I dont know what to read into it.

Hopefully good news.

Okie,

Cool dream speach.

Mary Lou,

Excellent article, the long one , It wasn't really sure if this is an article from an independent observer or if this was actuall policy steps. My take is that this article was written by an indpendent observer though, and the steps he lined out is not the official steps.

Sarah,

You always haul in stuff to the table, for us to consume, you're a giver, and you're doing much more than only sit here eating, telling us how to behave at the table. You know how to contribute, and freeloading is not in you nature.

All,

gotta go, did this on the fly, didnt do my spellcheck, no time, people r waiting for me as I speak, see ya later

-- October 25, 2006 2:10 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Terrance, what you said about the War for Independence that began in 1775, on Lexington Green made sense. Yes, the British won nearly every battle but lost the war. Why is that?

In 1775, Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to his friend, Joseph Priestly, talking about a difficulty that the British faced:

"Britain, at the expense of three million, has killed 150 Yankees this campaign, which is 20,000 English Pounds a head...During the same time, 60,000 children have been born in America. From this data, his mathematical head will easily calculate the time and the expense necessary to kill us all."

The English were superior, militarily, during the war that gave birth to the United States. The English won nearly every battle, yet still lost the war. They lost because the Americans kept pumping out babies, so time and expanding demographics were on the American's side.

This is not a lesson lost on the president of Iran, but is certainly lost on the leaders of Europe. As I wrote in a previous post, Mr. Ahmadinejaid plans to take over Europe. He intends to do it by getting Iranian women to make lots of babies, and shipping his citizens to Europe.

It seems to be working, so far.

-- October 25, 2006 4:30 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

This is a Great Article I found on my other Forum. Especially towards the end when he talk's about the exchange rate. It's long, but looks good.
What about all the Banks Monetary Policy And Oil Production

Source: By Sabri Zire Al-Saadi

10/24/06

It is indisputable that maximization of crude oil production is required in the short and medium term as oil revenues are essential for financing public expenditures and imports10. This policy is also in line with the interests of both the oil consumer and OPEC countries, regardless of the pricing factors of oil exports in global markets. But while the macroeconomic policy and oil production should be consistent in order to rationalize the allocation of resources, especially oil revenues, for increasing economic growth as well as providing social services and public utilities, the present monetary policy and especially the FXR have misled economic efforts.

In Iraq, while dependence on oil revenues has been increasing, the contribution of non-oil sectors to investment, imports, and public finance has been deteriorating for more than three decades. The post-war experience has also shown that mismanagement of public finance and widespread corruption, as well as the application of irrelevant economic policies, have contributed to the prevailing miserable socio-economic and political situation11. A significant irrational aspect of the post-war experience has been the provision of (indirect) subsidies for financing increasing imports that have eroded a substantial share of oil revenues, and the elimination of the state’s support for non-oil potential exports. These policies have added to the weakness of indigenous industrial and agricultural activities. In fact, the hasty liberalization of foreign trade imposed by the orders (Laws) of the former CPA and the resulting FXR led to negative interactions with the interests of nascent domestic industries and agriculture. It has been claimed, however, that the new FXR maintains economic stability, and the apparent stable (fixed) exchange rate of the ID/$ reflects a sound monetary policy12. This affirmation needs more examination to expose the real cost of utilizing oil revenues which would justify the demand for considering oil production policy as an integrated part of the state economic strategy and government policies.

By utilizing oil’s comparative advantages, public investment for the construction of infrastructure and petrochemicals and basic industries was the major factor for economic growth and employment during the period 1953-80. At present, using oil revenues to finance intensive public programs for rehabilitation of manpower and the implementation of a wide labor intensive public works program is also essential for dealing with the socially explosive unemployment problem and improving the labor market environment. If successfully performed, the task of building the required free trade and industrial zones, seaports, transportation and communication network through the IDRC, and improving the productivity of manpower would help the private sector to expand its investment capacities. Here lies the crux of the matter. In Iraq, the requirements and policies for the expansion of production (physical and manpower) capacities are very different from the policies dealing with the likely variations of short-term business cycles as practiced by developed countries. Therefore, monetary policy should be considered as a complementary part of the fiscal and public investment policies rather than a superior factor that influences the aggregate demand. Obviously, this proposition is in contrast to the present monetary policy which assumes that economic stability and private investment are necessary and sufficient conditions for economic growth; ie the independent CBI restricts the likely expansion of government fiscal policy. As Iraq’s experience has shown, inefficient public enterprises during the 1970s, 80s and 90s misused public financial resources and benefited from the easy credit facilities provided by the government which owned the commercial and investment banks.

But it is also misleading to stipulate that economic stability, ie controlling inflation and the fluctuation of foreign exchange rates, can be achieved without exploitation of the generous oil revenues. In addition, the present FXR has inferiorly linked the domestic interest rate to the US rate, determined by the US monetary authorities. What domestic economic factor justifies this policy? And why is the interest rate on ID deposits in domestic banks (12%) more than twice that for investment in dollars (5.25%) under fixed rate of ID/$? Who are the beneficiaries from the difference? Does this policy really help to check the inflation hike (70%)? Also, with a static policy, the weak (strong) US$ in the world market would induce more government spending and lead to more excess (insufficient) money supply. Does this practice support the sterilization of foreign currency flow? Unfortunately, neither the MOF nor the CBI has taken the trouble to explain these ambiguous monetary policies. In this context, it is essential to highlight the current mismanagement of the oil cash revenues by the MOF and CBI13, especially when the post-war Law of the CBI does not permit the public to question the monetary authorities’ crucial decisions14. In a democratic Iraq, it is hard to understand how the authority glorifies the accumulation of foreign reserves as if the economy were in good shape and was the result of the application of sound economic policy. Is it not a deception of public opinion on the part of the policy makers and advocates?

The NDS ascertains clearly two main issues; first, the national economy has two main characteristics: high dependence on the oil sector and imports, and an insignificant contribution of non-oil sectors and non-oil exports to GDP; secondly, oil revenues are the main source of public finance15 and, therefore, constitute the principal source of money liquidity. Analysis of the GDP composition reveals that the government’s consumption and investment demand and imports are the dominant factors that stimulate production and exports. It also constitutes the main source of money liquidity and foreign currency. Since the role of the private sector is limited in terms of its contribution to GDP and public finance, its influence in determining money liquidity is limited too. However, while the NDS appraised the independence and performance of monetary policy, it did not mention how nascent industries and agriculture activities would increase their productivity and competitiveness vis-à-vis the dumping of cheap imports and increasing cost of production. Also, while oil revenues are the main financial source of NDS, its passive policy towards the unemployment problem and the provision of public services can not be justified. Indeed, the inconsistency and shortcomings of NDS’s objectives and policies reflect the irrelevancy of the applied macroeconomic policies16. The effectiveness of the fiscal and monetary policies, however, does not mean that they are efficient and progressively leading to increase economic growth and employment and liberalize the economy from its high dependence on oil.

Efficiency Price Of Oil Production And FXR

In Iraq, there are many domestic and international economic, political, technological, and physical factors that determine crude oil production. Three main issues are of significance: first, the absorptive capacity of the national economy and the ability of the authorities to expand non-oil production capacities while maintaining economic stability; secondly, oil production should satisfy the need of energy’s consumer countries; and thirdly, in determining the level of investment in oil industry, ie expansion of production capacities and reserves, there is always the possibility of non-oil energy alternative – at least in the long run – and the uncertainty associated with the production peak of the existing oil aquifers. Such factors influence optimal production and the national investment decisions in oil industry.

Given these circumstances, the policy of maintaining optimal production of crude oil is theoretically linked to the state’s overall objective of maximum increase of economic growth, but must be practically qualified by the diversification of production activities and the production capacity peak. However, in view of the present global oil supply and demand conditions, the given analysis should be widened to include the prevailing measures and arrangements that were set to coordinate the oligopoly practice of OPEC countries. That is to say, it is also essential to evaluate the cost-benefit outcome of the collective oil price and production policies of OPEC as well as the likely role of Iraq being (another) swing player in OPEC. Such an approach would not, however, change the basic assumptions that determine the necessary oil production (revenues) which would help to modify the oil production policy and ensure effective macroeconomic policies17. It would only act as a yardstick to limit oil revenues extravagance that leads to the over-relaxation of domestic saving and constrains non-oil exports.

Now, how can then we arrive at such practical strategy and policy that compromises the reality requirements with the theoretical conditions?

It is our understanding that the (estimated) shadow price of oil production would perform this task since it expresses the relationship between the crude oil production level and Iraq’s economic growth conditions. In technical terms, the shadow or efficiency price of oil resources reflects the relative scarcity of oil that constitutes (in the practical sense) the most binding constraint on economic growth and social development. Given the exceptionally high dependence of the economy on oil exports (revenues), the foreign exchange rate of ID/US$ plays a strategic role in influencing (determining) the economic efficiency of oil production policy. Consequently, a new (adjusted) FXR must be established in order to facilitate the implementation of new economic strategy and policies that is based on a national inspiring long-term future vision18.

To justify such a proposition, we should recall the relevant basic theoretical assumptions of free market economy. The optimal distribution of the available resources of any production entity aimed at maximum profit will be achieved by equalizing profit realized from producing and selling one extra (marginal) unit from its production at a certain price with the cost of resources used in the production of this unit valued at efficiency prices, or, when abnormal profit is equal to zero, ie the prevalence of the optimal condition19. However, less efficient distribution or distribution below the optimal level leads to less normal profit. This means that if the optimality condition can not be realized, then the economic activities of the firm will be reduced and therefore utilize less of the available economic resources. Also, the summation of optimal activities of all production entities in a society means optimal distribution of the available resources and hence they will achieve maximum economic growth. However, it is not unknown for state intervention in economic affairs or any disturbance of the perfect competition in the free market mechanism being reflected in the resource distribution pattern at which the prevailing prices would are far away from the real efficiency prices.

In Iraq and elsewhere, the economic, social, and political reality needs a practical and more suitable way than the theoretical mechanism for mobilizing and distributing economic resources. The existence of widespread market imperfections resulting from the prevailing underdeveloped economic and technological infrastructures and social necessities distort the values of real prices. The price of oil is no exception, ie it does not reflect the scarcity of oil resource in relation to Iraq’s main objectives and constraints, where the surplus of the balance of payment is the key factor for economic growth and social development. Theoretically, real foreign exchange is directly linked to optimal crude oil production at which the balance of payment would be at equilibrium or at the level of where full utilization of foreign currency reserves as well as higher economic growth are achieved.

In reality, however, if oil production is less than the optimal (theoretical) level, then public oil revenues should be utilized only in financing infrastructure and public services and utilities. If oil production exceeds the optimal level, then public oil revenues must be utilized in investment projects guided by profit criterion and regulated by free market conditions.

Crucial Economic Policy Changes

The virtue of free market economy, ie optimal mobilization and distribution of resources that maximize economic growth, has been one of the main objectives for Iraq policy-makers since the fall of Saddam’s dictatorial regime. However, actual economic strategy and policies have miserably failed to revive the economy and rebuild the infrastructure, or establish a solid foundation for an efficient market economy despite the huge cost of thousands of human lives, and security, social, political, and financial spending. The mismanagement of the country’s abundant oil revenues, weak government institutions, and widespread corruption are symptoms of this failure. Since the fall of the former regime in April 2003, the growth of agriculture, non-oil industrial activities, and non-oil exports have been almost zero. The substantial accumulation in dollar reserves at the CBI have been generated only by the fortune of oil revenues. Therefore, maintaining the FXR and FER of US$/ID does not reflect sound macroeconomic, fiscal, and monetary policy nor keep up the real value of oil revenues from continuous deterioration resulting from hidden cost of free flow of imports.

In Iraq, increasing the contribution of non-oil sectors and private sector to the GDP and public finance is essential for transforming the oil-rentier economy to an efficient market economy. To achieve this long-term target, oil revenues (production) must be utilized to bring about the required economic growth, diversification, and the construction of infrastructure. However, the present policies are not efficient in utilizing oil revenues (production). Increasing oil production is essential, but to ensure macroeconomic efficiency, oil production policy should be linked to the fiscal and monetary policy so far as they reflect the scarcity of oil resources in relation to the country’s need for the reconstruction of public infrastructure. This can be achieved by the application of a flexible FXR aiming for both economic stability and economic growth. Therefore, using oil revenues to sustain a fixed exchange rate of ID/US$ and consequently associate the domestic interest rate to the US one would reduce the economic efficiency of utilization of oil revenues as well as restrict the role of monetary policy.

Essentially, Iraq needs an economic strategy and macroeconomic policies guided by a national long-term vision that aims to increase economic growth, employment, diversification, and the role of private sector, rather than rigid fiscal and tight monetary policies to regulate the (imaginary) short-term business cycle fluctuations through money-supply and interest rates as applicable to developed countries. The following economic policy issues have to be considered:

Reformulation of a macroeconomic policy to maintain both stability and promote economic growth, especially for non-oil industries and agriculture.

A gradual liberalization of the foreign exchange regime, ie the fixed exchange rate of ID/US$.

Gradual, but firm implementation of coherent structural economic reforms.

Limited and temporary import protection measures as well as export promotion incentives have to be taken to support the competitive capacities of infant indigenous industries and low-productivity agriculture.

Provision of investment incentives for the indigenous private sector and foreign corporations.

Initiation of a new economic strategy guided by a national vision, institutionalized through wide economic, social, and political public debate.

Abbreviations

CBI: Central Bank of Iraq

IDRC: Iraqi Development and Reconstruction Council

CPA: Coalition Provisional Authority

IMF: International Monetary Fund

FER: Foreign Exchange Regime

MOF: Ministry of Finance

FXR: Foreign Exchange Rate

NDS: National Development Strategy (2005-07)

GDP: Gross Domestic Product

USAID: US Agency for International Development

ID: Iraqi Dinar

WB: World Bank

Notes:

10. During 2005, Iraq’s cash receipts from export sales of petroleum amounted to $21.914bn. (http://www.iamb.info/auditrep/iambpres123105.pdf.). Total USAID assistance to Iraq from 2003 – 6 September 2006) amounted to $5.004bn (http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/econgov.html).

11. See; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Iraq's Post-War Economy: A Critical Review”, MEES, 5 April 2005, and “Iraq's National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, Strategic Insight, CCC, Vol 5 Issue 3, March 2006. (www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/mar/SaadiMar06.asp).

12. On the claimed economic accomplishments in Iraq, see; US National Security Council, “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq”, November 2005, Republic of Iraq, "National Development Strategy 2005-07", Iraq Strategic Review Board, Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, 30 June 2005, CPA, “An Historical Review of CPA accomplishments (2003-04), June 2004, Baghdad, Iraq. (www.cpa.org), and USAID accomplishments in Iraq. (www.usaid.gov/iraq). Critical views of this policy were given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Oil Revenues and the Foreign Exchange Regime in Iraq”, MEES, 6 September 2004.

13. The International Advisory and Monitoring Board on the Development Fund for Iraq (IAMB) concurred with the audit reports by Ernst & Young covering Iraq’s oil export sales and the DFI operations for 2005 in which “the audit reports continue to be critical of the financial and accounting systems in place in spending ministries, the US agencies in respect of the outstanding commitments using DFI resources, and the Iraqi administration of DFI resources”. Press release, 10 August 2006. (www.iamb.info). The audit reports highlighted MOF and CBI responsibility for “ ineffective control systems” and “inadequate corporate governance and organization structure” as there is no designated executive and financial controller to direct the DFI’s overall activities at the entity level”. Moreover, there is “no formal authority matrix and authorization (of cash payments) limits. Ernst & Young “Summary of Preliminary Findings for the six months ended 31 December 2005, Pending the Finalization and Approval of the Audit”. (http://www.iamb.info/auditrep/iambpres123105.pdf).

14. CPA” Central Bank Law”, No 56 of 1 March 2004.

15. Republic of Iraq, "National Development Strategy 2005-07", Iraq Strategic Review Board, Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation, 30 June 2005.

16. Assessment of the NDS policies was given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Iraq’s National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, Strategic Insight, Vol 5 Issue 3 (March 2006), CCC (http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2006/Mar/saadiMar06.asp).

17. A mathematical analysis on the issue was given in; Sabri Zire Al-Saadi, “Foreign Exchange Rates and Optimal Crude Oil Production in Developing Oil-Exporting Countries”, ibid.

18. A general definition of the vision was given in; “Iraq’s National Vision, Economic Strategy, and Policies”, ibid.

19. Theoretical analysis of the concept “zero-profit requirements” was given in: Dorfman, R Sameulson, P and Solow, R “Linear Programming and Economic Analysis”, Rand Corporation, Tokyo, Japan, 1958.

This article was written for MEES by economic advisor Sabri Zire al-Saadi, a UN former employee who held senior economic posts in Iraq. being closed for 10 days, has anyone seen anything in writing???

-- October 25, 2006 5:19 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

I need help, "Coping and pasting", My last question got all screwed up. Anyway, Has anyone seen anything in writing about the Banks being closed for 10 days???

-- October 25, 2006 5:23 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

The stuff on "selling the birthright" was sobering and thought provoking, thank you.

Carole;

When you say, "I don't think there is any descrepancies between the old testament and the new. I believe that the whole Bible is the Living word of God, from Genesis to Revelations." I agree.

When you ask about Jesus saying He came to fulfill the law.. my thoughts (for those who don't wish to view theology, skip the rest of this post):

WAR.. no longer under a Theocratic Chosen Nation, but individualized according to how God sees best to fulfil His will

============================================================================================

Jesus fulfilled the sacrifices which were done in the Old Testament in His sacrifice on the cross. Therefore, there is no need anymore to sacrifice animals to atone for sin, that was fulfilled and ceased. The moral laws, however, never passed away. It is still wrong to murder, commit adultery, steal, etc. Therefore, fulfilling the law can mean that laws can cease, or not. Here, discernment is necessary as to what passed away and what did not. The New Testament and history explain to us what is meant in each case. If it was not written in Scripture and seen to be passed away, it is still in effect, only fulfilled (as the moral law).

As far as speaking of Israel as the special and Chosen Nation which God dealt with as a group in the Old Testament (which was the argument concerning applying the Scriptures about war from the Old Testament - as you pointed out they had a special relationship with God and were specially preserved during times of war as a nation), that Chosen Nation passed away as a group and was scattered. There are more Jews in New York City than Israel now. Therefore, applying those Old Testament Scriptures about the Chosen Nation to modern day Israel or to warfare today when there is no Chosen Nation on earth acting as a theocracy under God is not going to be completely correct (though there can be important lessons learned from the Old Testament spiritually which may have applications, and God can use those verses and apply them as He wills - it does not bar God from showing favor in a conflict).

There is some valid argument that Israel may attain again to the status of a Chosen Nation under God one day, when they are ALL brought from where they have been scattered to the country of Israel again.. but that is obviously not the case at this point in history. Application of the Scriptures to any group as a whole as though they are the Chosen Nation is therefore inappropriate and incorrect at this time. The application of it to the US Armed Forces, for instance, is incorrect since they are obviously not all religious believers and acting under God as a theocratic fighting force (on God's behalf), though God can use them to preserve freedom in this world, of course. This is not bad nor does it leave them without God to support their mission (which Chris called a "pruning evil" mission, a characterization I agree with).

As an example of why this change is good - the Chosen Nation scenerio was such that at Ai, one person not following God's holy orders caused the entire company to lose many lives in battle (God would not go with them into battle). Historically this has not applied to the "mixed multitude" which now makes up the US Armed Forces, and I would argue the Scripture which applies today is "the soul that sins, it shall die", rather than a group judgement as it was on the Chosen Nation for one man's misdeed. As an example of how God can support missions within a mixed multitude, a commander in WW2 had those under his command recite Psalm 91 every morning out loud, and he never lost even one soldier under his command during the entire war.. that is one prominent example of how elements of faith within the "mixed multitude" can still see God's miraculous preservation and intervention (it was not true that our entire side of the war had no casualties). Israel's six day war could also be put in this category, since it was seen as an incredible (and almost supernatural) victory:

"The six day war or the June War, was fought between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. When Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, and blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent attack by Egypt. Jordan in turn attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya. At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

So, to summarize, Jesus fulfilled the law completely, causing the sacrifices and Chosen Theocratic Nation as a whole to pass away (at least for now, during the "time of the Gentiles" as some call it) while the fulfillment did not do away with the moral law at all, but merely put it into our hearts.

Chris - You are right, God does see war in a different category from murder. It is seen to be similar to execution by the state for serious lawbreaking offenses - a judicial act taken by the state as a governing body. It is like when a person commits murder, they are captured by the police, tried and executed. Similarly, nations are accused of evil (Saddam) tried (Congress agreed the threat was real and must be dealt with - similar to what a courtroom judge does concerning a criminal who is accused) and if convicted, then war is the result (with the Armed Forces seen as the executors of the convicted). The execution is seen as just, and revisting the judicial phase (as the Democrats are doing) is equivalent to a judge on the bench second guessing his judgement by saying that he did not have all the evidence, etc (it makes the judge/Congress look incompetent.) There was no need to try Saddam, he was already tried and could have been simply executed when he was caught.

Historically, both sides of the Old Testament conflicts felt that the outcome was due to God's favor on their side (or God's will for good or evil - with losses or unfavorable outcomes concerning Israel in the OT being seen as God's will, too - for instance when Jeremiah predicted Israel would lose in war and go into captivity into Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar.. for a seventy year period of chastening.)

When you say, "God sent the Israelis into battle and further instructed them to utterly destroy evil people. Did Jesus come and say "I'm sorry, God was wrong? He sinned by sending Israel into battle?". I say no.

I must agree. Jesus would have said under the law and the Chosen Theocratic Nation viewpoint that this was correct, but Jesus came to institute a new way, a way of Grace which reaches all mankind (not just that nation) and judges each individual separately. Look at how the other side of the current war now views this. The leader of Iran claims God is on his side and will further his side of the war in the Old Testament theocratic way. He promises to utterly destroy the "evil West" and gives numerous examples of sinful acts committed on our side (merely click on CNN on any day to view his ammunition for this premise.) If the OT theocratic system were in place, and he were truly acting on God's behalf, he would have a case against this nation, and I do not say God likes sin in any country. However, this is not the scenerio we live under today because that system passed away and God does not work through one Chosen Nation anymore (Iran or any other nation). Instead, "the soul that sins, it shall die" is the scenerio we now live under.. God deals with men individually.. and isn't that nicer.. ?? We don't have to die because our neighbor is a whore, druggie or blasphemer. We do not die because our fathers sin, we die only if WE sin ourselves.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I feel this change is superlatively JUST and more gracious than the old way.. (Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.)

This is why elements within the Armed Forces today are tried when they are caught committing criminal acts on an individual basis, not as a battalion. They are not executed or expected to commit hari-kari as a group because one person dishonored the group (another OT-like viewpoint held by the Japanese.)

So when Iran accuses the West of sin (as the OT theocracy) it falls flat. NO, God does not condone any individual's sins.. but if we look at the sins of Iran (or Islam).. from their two minute "marriages" (called 'pleasure marriages') which profane the holy union of marriage to their currently torturing and raping Iraqis to their 'honor' killings of their own women.. they have their own sins which God sees as well. They are not more righteous (indeed, probably less since prostitution is wicked but profaning the institution of marriage is likely seen as, well, more severe a crime... since Jesus said that if a woman leaves her husband and is joined to another she commits adultery - all those who have had a 'pleasure marriage' from that day on commit adultery with each successive sexual union - even if they marry later on. If they commit murder against the 'pleasure marriage' woman so they will not in the next union commit adultery, they are guilty of bloodguiltiness - hardly a point in their favor. The only way out of that mess is deep repentance to God and forgiveness, which is possible not by glib words being spoken but only by hard payment for that sin in blood - Jesus' atoning blood on the cross. The law is exacting, the price for such heinous and sinful behavior in God's sight must be paid, remember the penalty for adultery is stoning in the OT.)

Using the OT theocratic (God is on our side, we are the Chosen people) mentality, the current war is seen by some in the Middle East (like Iran) as a war between the god of Islam and the God of Christianity, with the victor being either those who worship Jesus or those who follow the teachings of the prophet Mohammed. Again, I say the "Chosen Nation" has passed away and is not over either the Islamic or Christian elements as a group, but God favors in the conflict what He deems best. It should be sobering to the troops to realize that their individual behavior may determine if they live or die in the conflicts in which they engage. I would view it as a spur to holy living, myself.. at least I would seek to try to give no occasion to the adversary to accuse me of sin and so take my life (the soul that sins, it shall die.. errr.. it shall.. WHAT?). None of us is perfect, but I wouldn't intentionally do anything that might give spiritual place for my life to be taken from me. Such a move would be foolhardy. (I would also pray God to forgive me for all my sins, known and unknown, particularly just before I went into a battle.. well, it is logical and so I just would.) Anything that might give you an edge might be useful.. and this is as much a spiritual battle as a physical one.

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 5:58 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Mark....

I check Warka Bank on a daily basis and the on-line portion has been down for a couple of weeks and is still down.

Other forums are reporting the CBI and other banks have also been down.

"Maintenance:
Internet Banking System is currently offline for upgrading and maintenance."

http://www.warka-bank.com/maintenance.html

-- October 25, 2006 6:02 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Similarly, that woman and her group that protest at Armed Forces funerals?
She and her group recently were going to protest at the Amish funerals. QUOTE:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217760,00.html

Westboro's latest rhetoric is in line with the other beliefs of it's 70 church members, who hold that the deaths of U.S. troops are God's punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuality.

The Westboro Baptist Church has made its name demonstrating at the funerals of soldiers killed in the Iraq war. Their controversial and colorful placards proclaim their anti-gay stance with slogans such as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "America Is Doomed" and "Soldier Fag in Hell."

"We are delivering a message," Phelps-Roper said. "God is punishing this nation and he is using the IED [improvised explosive device] as his weapon of choice."

====end of quote===

Her premise is also this incorrect thinking of a Chosen Theocratic Nation..
she applies it to the US and says God is making these soldiers pay for the sins in America.
She says God is putting a cup of wrath to the lips of America to drink for "her sins"
(she particularly singles out homosexuality and their signs read, "God hates fags", "God is your enemy", etc.)

The wrath scriptures she quotes from the OT only apply to the Chosen Theocratic Nation scenerio
which was present over Israel under the OT system.. a system which has passed away under the New Covenant.
The US is not Israel of the Old Testament.

Her interpretation is entirely OT... there is no grace or truth or Jesus Christ in her words.
No one has even asked her why she calls herself a "Christian" since she never
quotes Christ or His mission at all. Nor does she understand Jesus Christ who said:

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Sara.

-- October 25, 2006 6:37 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Sara,

On General Georges Sada running for the PM job, I don't think he would take it. He is working in the background.

General Sada was responsible for the religious freedom clause in the constitution--so that people who were Islamic could convert to Christianity without being killed.

In addition, he is also working with Sunni groups to get them to lay down their arms. However, this is dependent on Shiiti groups laying down their arms.

I have written his e-mail but no response as of yet. He is trying to help the republicans in the next couple of weeks win re-elections and this maybe keeping him busy!!

Laura

-- October 25, 2006 8:04 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Laura.
Also, Roger, thanks for your kind comments. :)
I found this.. seems to be quite a bit of bickering going on.
Hope they get their act together soon, or the promised "coup" will have to be implemented to do it for them.

Sara.

New Iraq oil law one of many obstacles
By Thomas Wagner, Associated Press Writer | October 25, 2006

LONDON --Industry experts believe the bitter rivalry among Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds will make it difficult to pass a law on distributing Iraq's oil wealth -- one of the key steps in a timeline for restoring production to prewar levels and shoring up the shaky Baghdad government.

SIGIR, the U.S. agency that oversees Iraq's reconstruction, recently announced that oil production in Iraq, which had hovered around 2 million barrels per day during 2005 and most of the first half of 2006, briefly reached the prewar level of 2.5 million barrels per day in mid-June. It also said oil exports had increased, averaging 1.6 million bpd during that quarter.

On Tuesday, Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador in Iraq, said its leaders had agreed to the timeline that would require Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government to set dates by the end of the year for completing six key tasks.

In addition to a law that would guarantee the sharing of Iraq's oil wealth, the timeline requires amending the constitution, turning an anti-Baathist organization into a reconciliation body, disbanding Shiite militias, setting a date for provincial elections, and "increasing the credibility and capability of Iraqi forces."

A new oil law could help Iraq's oil sector and its crumbling infrastructure by resolving how Iraq's Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish regions would share oil revenues and resources, and broker deals with international oil companies regarding desperately needed exploration and development.

"The Kurds have submitted a draft Petroleum Act to be adopted that gives them the right to control oil, regardless of the government in Baghdad. The Oil Ministry has submitted another completely different draft that gives the authority to the ministry, not regions. It's the main issue of the conflict: oil and Kurds," said al-Chalabi.

Mustafa Alani, a senior adviser at the Gulf Research Center in the United Arab Emirates, also said he doubted that Iraq's deeply divided parliament will be able to pass legislation that resolves the regional dispute over Iraq's oil wealth.

But he said the U.S. timetable has left many Iraqis believing that Washington is now planning for a gradual withdrawal of its forces, meaning that fighting among Iraqis -- not a compromise in parliament -- could determine the fate of the oil industry.

"If the U.S. stepped up its forces and stayed, there would be more chance of success," Alani said. "But the U.S. must remember: this is a major oil producing region, not a Somalia. The impact of a cut-and-run strategy wouldn't stop at Iraq's borders."

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/10/25/new_iraq_oil_law_one_of_many_obstacles/? rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

-- October 25, 2006 8:23 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Mark-you posted the same article as I did (one of the two I posted) on the 24th. You might want to read the other one also-interesting reading.

-- October 25, 2006 9:10 PM ∞

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carl wrote:

Taylor:
Your initial response to sara's return was rude so I just gave you a little taste of rudeness back...

Just do what I do when Sara goes to the preacher stand....skip over it....I'm not too wild about reading the harry potter books on this site either ...just different authors...

-- October 25, 2006 9:59 PM ∞

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Terrance wrote:

Tim,

Excellent point. I agreed entirely with the premise of your previous post.

European nations have become so self-gratifying that many now view children as a "burden". (Thankfully, the vast majority of Americans look at family as the biggest blessing of them all.) The result: European Arab/Muslim population will overtake the native euro's in a matter of decades, changing the face of Europe forever......that is if we get that far.

My corrolation in my previous post of the American Revolution and the Iraq War was meant to make the other parallel point, which is:
The Red Coats won virtually every battle, sending rag tag bunches of Continental militia's running for their lives. So also we win every battle sending the Iraqi insurgent fighters running for their lives.

But General Howe finally packed up his troops and sailed back to England because he could not put his finger on an enemy that hid behind trees, fired a volley of musketballs, killed a few British troops,and then ran back home to do his farming, blending into the American landscape.
We have the same problem in Iraq. For all our good intentions I fear we will load our troops, and sail back home, not being able to put a finger on the enemy.

The tragic difference is after the British left America, the American people believed in the value of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which led to this great society and nation. Those Iraqi insurgents believe in the value of Islamic violence, killing the innocent, and imposing their crazy religion on the world.

That's why I say...keep the pig on ice. The pig roast on Maui which was to be funded through my IQD may have to wait a long, long time.

From the West Coast -

Terrance

-- October 25, 2006 10:30 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

A brief note on the Art of War. Sometimes it is better to let other people fight it out. If you are faced with a situation where there are several, competing, hostile forces at play, and order is hard to impose, it is better to withdraw a bit, and let the competing forces fight it out a bit.

That way, your forces are fresh and the other side gets worn out.

At that point, you can swoop back in, and kick ass.

Now, this is a judgement call, as to when to do this. Suppose, at some point, America's generals come to the conclusion that for now, it is too difficult to impose order. What to do?

Well, one option could be for American forces to be temporarily withdrawn, to the Kurdish region, in the northern end of Iraq, and some into Kuwaiit. The Kurds and Kuwaiitis seem to like Americans. After all, Americans liberated Kuwaiit, and provided air coverage to the Kurds during the Clinton years, with the imposition of the "no fly zone" that kept Saddam a bit at bay. American forces could be welcome there, if they camped out for a year or two.

Suppose General Casey, with the ok of President Bush, decides to take a time out, for American forces. He temporarily withdraws to the north, and the south. What happens then?

Well, the various forces at work, the Shiite Militias, the Sunnis, the Iraq Government Army, Al Queda, all fight it out, killing perhaps hundreds of thousands.

Is that so bad? After a couple of years of a civil war, they would wear each other out enough that if the Americans moved back to Bagdhad, they would have a much easier time imposing order.

Some people would call this cut and run. I don't. Cut and run is leaving the region entirely. There are many ways to win. This strategy involves letting the other fools wear themselves out.

I'm a fan of boxing. The great heavyweight, Muhammad Ali, employed just such a stategy in boxing. He hung around the rope on the outside of the ring a lot, letting the other boxer wear himself out, while Ali went into defensive mode. It's called "rope a dope" in boxing. Once the other guy was worn out, Ali would deck him, ending the fight.

This stategy would take political heat off the Bush administration. If fewer American soldiers are dying, and the war is more about letting Iraqis killing Iraqis, the American public won't be too upset.

Of course, this would have to be done while giving aid and material assistance to the Iraqi forces we are backing, namely the elected government, through air strikes and provision of munitions and training. After all, if Iraqis want a democracy, let them earn it in blood. That's how America earned their's.

I have great confidence in the leadership of President Bush. I think he is a good stategist. I also have great confidence in America's military leaders. No doubt this strategy, among many others, is on the desk, and being considered, at the Pentagon.

So, if you see American troops leaving Bagdhad, it may not mean the fight is over.

As my uncle George used to say, "There's more than one way to skin a cat!"

-- October 26, 2006 12:59 AM ∞

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MARK wrote:

SORRY Mary Lou, I havn't posted on here for a little bit, this forum has a tendency to stray from the topic of DINARS, as you can see from recent postings. I'll try and read up before I post anymore info.

-- October 26, 2006 7:05 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts.....

I like your "rope a dope" plan for doing the bad guys in.

Our Military is already preparing about 4-5 very large bases which would make this possible. I visited one in Western Iraq, it was huge and had large runways for aircraft.

Let the bad guys kill each other off for awhile and then come out and kill the rest of them...I like it!!

-- October 26, 2006 8:19 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Hope the hydrocarbon law stays on schedule....looks like it's hanging in there.
========================================================================================
Iraq to open oil bids soon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25 October 2006 (AME Info FZ LLC)
Iraq plans to open bidding for oil projects after an oil and gas law is passed towards the end of 2006, according Oil Minister Hussain Al Shahristani in an interview with Reuters. Iraq is currently losing around 400,000 bpd of oil through sabotage of infrastructure, but says it wants to raise output to 3.5m bpd by the end of 2006 from the current 3m bpd, and to 4m bpd by 2010.

-- October 26, 2006 8:34 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Been perusing the news and haven't been able to find much on the Dinar. Slow news period thus the other topics on the site.
If I were an upstanding member of the press, noticing the lack of news on the Dinar, then I would promptly fabricate some.
Found that :
1. Saddam is refusing to return to the courtroom. Al Jazzera is reporting that 1000 pages of his defense was stolen. i.e. his dog ate his homework.
2. The Wonka bank will be down for 10 days. No new golden tickets are expected to be found.
The article below discusses economic conditions in Iraq. Don't know what this reporters belly aching is about but it is clear that his RV glass is half empty. At least he was able to conclude that, even though things could be better, that life under Saddam was worse. Now there's a revelation that some here in the US can't quite grasp.
Guess I woke up on the wrong side of the Dinar.
Hey, what's wrong with my Wheaties? what's that aweful taste?
Enjoy the article
*************************************************
U.S. ambassador touts Iraq's economic progress
10/25/2006
By Hamza Hendawi
The Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad insisted Tuesday that things are not all bad in Iraq, citing the growing number of satellite dishes on rooftops and consumers with cellphones as signs of economic progress.
"Economically, I see an Iraq every day that I do not think the American people know about, where cellphones and satellite dishes, once forbidden, are now common, where economic reform takes place on a regular basis, where agricultural production is rising dramatically, and where the overall economy and the consumer sector is growing," the U.S. envoy said at a Baghdad news conference.
Some Iraqis see things differently.
"We'd prefer he take those back and return just 10 percent of our prewar life," said Mohammed Ibrahim, 50, a government employee from Baghdad. "Saying things like that shows the Americans' contempt for us Iraqis."
Analogies between conditions in Iraq now and life before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq are common among Iraqis, angered over what they see as the failure of successive Iraqi governments and their U.S. backers to provide security, services or jobs.
Khalilzad spoke at one of the lowest points in U.S. involvement in Iraq.
An average of more than 40 Iraqis are being killed every day in October, according to an Associated Press count based on AP reporting and considered a minimum. The violence has forced nearly 1 million Iraqis to flee abroad since 2003, and as many as 300,000 more have become refugees in their own country because of sectarian killings.
Cellphones were introduced in Iraq in 2004 and proved an instant hit, with about 1 million subscribers in the Baghdad area alone. Similarly, satellite dishes, prohibited under Saddam Hussein, also proved popular, and there is hardly a rooftop in Baghdad or elsewhere in Iraq without at least one.
The advent of the two came as part of the free-market economy that sprang up after Saddam's ouster, filling markets with everything from South American bananas to South Korean electrical goods, Finnish telephones and Iranian biscuits.
But after nearly 13 years of U.N. sanctions that reduced millions of Iraqis to destitution, not everyone was able to enjoy the fruits of the free market. Government employees, about 1 million nationwide, have been the biggest spenders since 2003, thanks to raises of up to 100 percent.
Amrah al-Badawi, a Shiite lawmaker and a member of parliament's economic committee, chuckled when told of Khalilzad's comments.
"Iraqis longed for mobile phones and satellite television, but their availability now are of little relevance to the economy," she said. "What we need is economic ventures, and these are not going to happen with security the way it is."
Without substantial economic activity, Iraqis continue to suffer 30 percent unemployment and double-digit inflation.
The price of gasoline, which is often scarce, has increased 12-fold since 2003. Bread prices are up nearly fivefold and fresh meat by more than 100 percent. Tenuous security means that less farm produce reaches retail markets, causing prices to rise.
Most Iraqis continue to depend on Saddam-era food-ration cards, but many holders say key items such as sugar and rice are sometimes unavailable.
The wide access to satellite dishes and cellphones also holds some unpleasant ironies.
Cellphones have been widely used to set off many of the bombs that kill and maim across much of the country, with U.S. and Iraqi forces their primary victims. Satellite dishes also have enabled Iraqis to watch programs perceived to have anti-U.S. content, such as Qatar-based al-Jazeera television and Hezbollah's al-Manar TV.
Baghdad residents say they are spoiled by the large number of channels available on satellite TV, something that keeps them entertained when they huddle at home, afraid to go out for fear of falling victim to the violence.
But killing time in front of television needs electricity and that's one of Iraq's big postwar problems. Power outages occur daily in Baghdad and can last up to three days.
Khalilzad, however, rejected the analogy some Iraqis use on life before and after Saddam.
"The important fact to keep in mind is that, of course, a lot of innocent Iraqis are getting killed, and that's a source of concern to us and to the Iraqis," he said. "But during Saddam, thousands upon thousands of Iraqis were killed as a result of a government policy."

Associated Press writers Sinan Salaheddin, Bushra Juhi and Qassim Abdul-Zahra in Baghdad contributed to this report.

-- October 26, 2006 9:24 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Good Summary.

Quote:

William Shawcross: Deny Islamists reward in Iraq
- George W. Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard are still right: a pullout would condemn the region to horror
October 27, 2006

IRAQ'S Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih made an excellent impression in London this week but he was surprised, if not horrified, by the level of hysteria and defeatism that he found in the media.

The bias in much of the coverage of Iraq - in Britain, the US and Australia - helps only those violent extremists who are trying to destroy the country.

It dreadfully discourages all those millions of Iraqis who need our support to build a decent society.

President George W. Bush was not wrong when he said recently that the spike in terrorist attacks in Iraq is similar to the 1968 Tet communist offensive in Vietnam. Both aimed at domestic opinion.

Al-Qa'ida and the Shi'ite terrorists hope to inflict defeat on Republicans in US elections in November that will weaken American commitment to the future of Iraq and thus strengthen Islamism throughout the world. As Salih said, for the West's sake as well as that of Iraq, we need to be "realistic, not defeatist".

I met Duncan Anderson, the head of war studies at Sandhurst, who was teaching at Al Rustamiyah for six months. He is now back at Sandhurst. Like everyone who loves Iraq, he is worried about it. But he is not panicked. He points out that it took the British army four years to get its tactics right in Malaya, then another seven years to defeat the insurgency there. Similarly, in Oman there was a learning curve in the 1970s.

"The US Army and the marines have transformed themselves in the last two years," he says.

"They set up their own counter-insurgency school and all officers down to platoon level pass through it. It is a far more effective force than it was in 2003."

The Iraqi Army has improved as well. "In January 2005 there were only four battalions which were any good," Anderson says. "Now we can think in terms of several divisions that can be relied upon.

"Many of them are very highly motivated: they know what their enemies will do to them if they win."

Last week the Iraqi Army was able to take back from insurgents the southern town of Amarra.

Armchair pundits in the West like to blame the crisis in Iraq on mistakes made by Washington, particularly by Donald Rumsfeld. There certainly have been mistakes, but whether the present situation would have been markedly different without them can never be known.

Moreover, the mistakes were tactical, not moral: soldiers have not died plundering or colonising Iraq, they have died trying to help Iraqis make it better.

The blame for the present horrors lies above all with the monstrous al-Qa'ida, Baathist Sunni terrorists and the equally vile Shia militia, which are abetted by Iran. The vast majority of deaths in Iraq are being inflicted by Muslims on other Muslims, for reasons that have little to do with Western forces.

There are those who claim a deal could be made with Iran and its client Syria in a compromise settlement of Iraq's problems. It's hard to envisage. Both governments have done everything possible to destroy the new Iraq.

The Syrian Government has enabled the Damascus Baathist mafia to smuggle thousands of suicide bombers into Iraq.

Bomb disposal experts can often identify the precise Tehran factories in which car bombs and other deadly explosive devices have been manufactured. Iran is stoking the violence by way of warning that it could do even worse if it gets its way with its nuclear ambitions. This week Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made his most blood-curdling threat yet against Europe and Israel.

Iraqi historian Kanan Makiya acknowledges the West has made mistakes in Iraq, but he still believes that it was right "to get rid of what was an exceptional tyranny, even by the terrible standards of the Middle East". Makiya says: "As an Iraqi, I cannot ever say it was wrong to support the overthrow of that dictatorship. And I challenge any human being to say to me that it was wrong."

Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard are absolutely right to insist that we cannot abandon Iraq. We are there under a UN mandate (soon up for renewal), assisting the legitimate, elected Government. We should hand over to the Iraqis as they become more capable.

But a premature pullout would condemn Iraq and the region to unbelievable horror. And it would be a famous victory for our Islamist enemies, who declared war on the West long before we went into Iraq and liberated 23 million Muslims.

If we allow ourselves and the overwhelming majority of Iraqis to be defeated, that defeat will be the first of many in the region and the world. The Islamists will give no quarter.

- William Shawcross is the author of Allies: The US and the World in the Aftermath of the Iraq War (Allen & Unwin, 2004).

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20650765-7583,00.html

-- October 26, 2006 12:01 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Sara...

The William Shawcross article was good reading...Thanks for posting it.

We're making good progress in Iraq despite what the MSM says. CNN hit a new low when they showed our troops being shot by snipers. They tried to justify it by saying they blacked out the footage before impact of the round. They truly are a bunch of sick little puppies.

-- October 26, 2006 2:34 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

The U.S. clearly has the ability to win the war in Iraq. Per my previous post a peaceful and prosperous Iraq is in the best interest of the United States.

I do agree with Roger's premise that the Dinar is currently undervalued and a revalue could help deflate the insurgency. In contrast, a revaluation would boost the confidence and purchasing power of the Iraqi people.

Practically, I continue to believe an official revalue is some months away. I say 24 to 36 months. Unless current methods of controlling the insurgency are not successful we may be seeing the reval not coming for several years.

Once the Republican's have locked up Congress, we may see some cessation of violence. If the Democrats happen to gain the majority in congress, I think we should expect to see an increase in insurgent activity.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 26, 2006 4:59 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Anyone watch CNN last night?

-- October 26, 2006 7:16 PM ∞

---

Homefry wrote:

Anyone see CNN last night?

-- October 26, 2006 7:17 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Found this article on another site-thought you might like to read it:

Undersecretary of the Ministry of Finance spoke to Kamal visual «life» from inflation and the decline of purchasing power عامل والدعم الحكومي 480 مليون دولاربسبب ضعف الانتاجIraq : the public sector is 580 thousand industrial workers and government support 480 million Dolarbsbb weak production
بغداد - عادل مهدي الحياة - 23/10/06//Baghdad-Adel Mahdi life-23 / 10 / 06 / /

Najaf refinery, which opened in early this month. (أ ف ب)(AFP)
Said Undersecretary of the Iraqi Ministry of Finance Kamal Al-Basri «life», The policy of economic reform required to reduce the financial allocations to support petroleum derivatives for the current year by half, to become a $ 200 million monthly. instead of 400 per month in 2005, This is based on the government's desire to reduce the subsidy gradually, and make prices consistent with the neighboring countries.

He disclosed that the scheme had been providing for the issuance of a presidential decree, summarized end the State monopoly for the import and sale of oil derivatives, and to allow the private sector to participate in the practice activity, but this has not taken place, The fuel crisis as it is.

He explained that the recent period of 2005, have stopped importing oil derivatives from Turkey, due to the irregular payment of financial dues of the Turkish side, what makes prices more than the regular market prices are not supported. As a result, the rate of domestic spending on oil derivatives, approximately 40% of the family income, according to the statistical survey of the city of Baghdad. conducted by the Central Bureau of Statistics this year.

He pointed out that the rate of inflation in the months of July (July) and father (August) two years 70%; , and 76.6%, respectively, reflected negatively on the Iraqi economy. The negative effects, a reduction in the purchasing power of individuals, as well as the decline in the real value of savings and deposits, especially if the inflation rate is higher than the rate of interest, what led to a decrease in the volume of investment in the national economy, and discourage the process of economic development.

He added that despite the government's support for importing oil derivatives, to meet the shortfall in production internally, the local market has been experiencing a big shortage in bridging the growing demand, because of the entry of a large number of cars imported by the private sector. The constant interruptions to electricity, increased use of generators that rely on the operation of these derivatives, as well as the suffering of the distribution sector major problems, The existence of administrative and financial corruption. وكلها عوامل ساهمت في ارتفاع المعدل العام للأسعار، ما انعكس سلباً على سلة الغذاء.These are all factors that contributed to the rise in the overall level of prices, , which impacted negatively on the food basket.

التضخمInflation
He attributed the reasons for the high inflation rate to several factors other, the most important of the high prices and scarcity of oil derivatives, power outages, impedes the production of goods and services, The downsizing of the supply on the market. weak capacity of the government machinery in the implementation of projects services. as well as the deterioration of the security situation, which contributed to the irregular supply of goods and services. The weakness of the structure of GDP.

He pointed to the negative consequences resulting from the weakness of the banking system to attract cash. He said that the Central Bank of Iraq, In an attempt to curb inflation, the oldest recently to raise interest rates from 10 to 12%. وObservers believe, This increase was unable to make any positive impact, They are unprofitable, Valtakl impact of inflation in the capital. more interest rate, Therefore, this policy is not sufficient to maintain the purchasing power of the Iraqi currency.

البطالةUnemployment

In analyzing the growing problem of unemployment. he said that the unemployment rate is 27-30%. although the majority of the workforce is in the services sector with marginal influence in the overall GDP, while they do not exceed 2% in the oil sector, the backbone of GDP.

He said that there are flaws in the structure of the Iraqi economy, In the industrial sector, public works 580 thousand, However, the weak production, push the government to support at $ 480 million, He pointed out that government support direct and indirect in the state budget constitutes about 80% of GDP. Therefore there is a clear imbalance between the sectors of production and services sectors.
He believed that dealing with the phenomenon of inflation come through steps including the stabilization of the security of confidence in the local market. and to address the scarcity of oil derivatives, by ending the monopoly of the State, and to allow the private sector to import. The increase of interest rates in general. have a role in collecting cash, It is an established procedure in many countries stable, However, the impact will not be significant, due to the lack of a tendency to save, The absence of investment opportunities that can be fed savings. The understanding of the rich prefer to transfer their capital abroad. Therefore it is hard to imagine that the rate of interest rate role, as long as the difference between the inflation rate significantly.

The rise in the value of the Iraqi currency against the dollar would reduce the value of imports, and raising the value of exports. As exports are negligible, the economy will benefit from the policy of raising the rate of the Iraqi dinar. He emphasized that this action has positive effects, when used with other procedures, the most important financial policy, which is based on controlling public spending, The use of fiscal policy to reduce the cash, They are difficult to apply.

Translated version of http://www.alhayat.com/business/10-2006/Item-20061022-7127d4b7-c0a8-10ed-0055-76e2e1003b17/story.html

-- October 26, 2006 9:23 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

This is great-you will need to have your sound on. It's called "The Real Story". Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.glennbeck.com/realstory/iraq-video.shtml
_________________
4ea9267ceb

-- October 26, 2006 10:10 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

YW Okie.. That one seemed a great summary of the way things are.
I thought I might like to buy Shawcross' book. :)
What was on CNN? I didn't see it.

True, Rob N.. I think the US can win in Iraq, too.
Certainly the economic fortunes of the country are a key..
and the Dinar figures prominently in any plan to help the economy. :)

Thanks, Mary Lou.

Sara.

-- October 26, 2006 10:14 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Sara...

I don't know what was on CNN....I think homefry made a double posting by mistake?

-- October 27, 2006 5:43 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara, Chris, Tim and anyother I may have left out.

I have surely enjoyed all of the recent postings. They are challenging and provocative.
I have some studying and research to do to get up to snuff to participate in any of the conversations.

But unfortunately, I have to run to the hospital where my 86y/o mom is having surgery in a few hours.

If on the way I am hit by a car or some other event that will take my last breath and find myself face to face with my Creator, I will ask HIm if I can enter HIs kingdom for eternity.

He will ask me " why should He let me into HIs Perfect Kingdom.

I have no answer that would suffice. To qualify I would have had to have a perfect life and to have never offended HIm.

Hmmmmmmm I need a really good lawyer to act as my advocate. WHo might that be???

Even after my case is pleaded---the verdict can only be GUILTY!! The sentence is eternal death, since the atonement for sin is blood ( death).

Hmmmmmmm....now I need someone who can pay that price or restitution for me.....Hmmmmm who would qualify to do that ?????

It would have to be someone who died shed the blood required, and survived the whole event, to be able to tell The Almighty Judge "PAID".

Hmmmmm... who could that be????

See ya guys later!! :} :}

-- October 27, 2006 8:30 AM ∞

---

Terri wrote:

This is absolutely awsome! Take just a minute and watch this video!

http://www.glennbeck.com/realstory/iraq-video.shtml

-- October 27, 2006 9:11 AM ∞

---

carl wrote:

Carole:

Mighty Mouse was pretty good when I was growing up...lets see..the super heros's seem pretty popular at this time....some tend to lean toward Oprah...or Dr.Phil......but I would put my money on someone who appeals to the masses...like Russ Limbaugh or Glenn Beck...

Just trying to help with your defense team....Gee! no wonder you are praying all the time....if ya changed your behavior pattern you might not need so much help...

Oh! Well! I guess everyone has the right to travel down their own path without being judged.....so I won't judge you...

Good luck on your trip...and watch out for the black cats..

-- October 27, 2006 9:21 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Has anyone considered the cost of this war from an Iraqi viewpoint? Enclosed, is an article from that perspective. From www.iraqieconomy.org

An Early Calculation of Iraq's Cost of War October 23, 2006 - Here's a basic question: What has been the cost of the Iraq war for Iraq? As it turns out, it's not easy to find an economist who can provide an answer. Although several studies have dealt with the war's cost to Americans, there has been no comparable work addressing the cost to Iraqis.
Of course, the loss of human life has always been evident. Recently, the United Nations estimated that 100 Iraqis were dying each day, on average, as a result of the war. Others have put the number much higher. A recent study in The Lancet, the British medical journal, placed the average daily figure at about 500, amounting to the loss of 2 percent of Iraq's population since the invasion in March 2003.
The economic cost has been less visible. Published information on the subject is very limited, although one economist, Colin Rowat, has made some preliminary calculations using the best sources available. Professor Rowat, a specialist on the Iraqi economy at the University of Birmingham in Britain, relied mainly on data from the International Monetary Fund to estimate the war's overall effect on the Iraqi economy. His calculations are a work in progress, but what he has found so far is sobering: the cost amounts to a cut of at least 40 percent in Iraq's national income.
Professor Rowat looked at the six-year stretch from 2000 to 2005 and divided it into thirds. During the first period, 2000-2001, United Nations trade sanctions against Iraq were beginning to crumble; the Security Council lifted the cap on Iraqi oil sales to the rest of the world, and the Iraqi government was becoming adept at getting around the remaining trade restrictions. The second period, 2002 -2003, covers the buildup to war and the invasion itself. The last period, 2004-2005, covers post-invasion years when sanctions were removed.
Professor Rowat made several kinds of calculations. First, he estimated the actual change in the size of Iraq's economy. Then he considered the economic effects of foreign aid in 2005, much of it from the United States. (Because foreign aid is regarded as temporary and is expected to taper off, he said, excluding it reveals Iraq's underlying economic performance.)
Finally, he estimated how the economy might have performed had the war never happened. This last estimate, of course, depends on a host of assumptions, as Professor Rowat would be the first to say. He assumed, for example, that in the absence of war, Iraq's economy would have been driven by the price of oil. Oil prices are, in fact, crucial to Iraq; according to the World Bank, oil revenue represents 60 percent of the total economy. Professor Rowat also assumed that the economy would have grown from 2002 to 2005 as it did from 2000 to 2001 - at a pace equal to 71 percent of the rate of increase in world oil prices. Of course, some of the oil-price increase in recent years must be attributed to the Iraq war itself; Professor Rowat acknowledged this but did not attempt to remove that factor from these rough calculations.
He readily acknowledged the difficulty of coming up with an undisputed set of figures; nevertheless, his analysis is at least a starting point.
Looking first at the actual Iraqi economy, he calculated that it may have grown 3.1 percent a year, on average and after adjusting for inflation, from 2000 through 2005. When he subtracted foreign aid from that total, however, he found that the economy actually contracted 0.2 percent a year over the same period. He said aid was especially crucial in 2005, when it kept the economy afloat.
Finally, based on the steep rise in oil prices, he estimated that without a war and with steady oil production, Iraq would have grown 12 percent a year after adjusting for inflation. That rate would have made Iraq one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, albeit one that was expanding from a very small economic base.
How realistic is this projection? It's hard to say, because so much of it depends on oil economics. Still, the I.M.F. has concluded that the Iraqi economy has the capacity to grow very quickly - under the right conditions. It now forecasts Iraq's real growth over the next five years at an annual rate averaging better than 10 percent.
Using Professor Rowat's calculations, what might the economic cost of the war be for Iraq? If there had been no war, Iraq's economy in 2005 might have amounted to $61 billion in today's dollars, compared with the actual $37 billion, he estimates. That works out to a loss of $24 billion because of the war. Excluding foreign aid from the calculations, the loss estimate is around $30 billion.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 27, 2006 10:24 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

More corruption inside the GoI. From www.iraqieconomy.org.

Over half a billion in Iraq aid stolen October 23, 2006 - Over half a billion US dollars intended to fight the insurgency in Iraq was stolen by people running the country's Ministry of Defence before the 2005 elections, CBS News reported.
Iraq’s former minister of finance says coalition members like the US and Britain are doing very little to help find the stolen money, with many of the suspects fleeing the country.
The channel’s 60 Minutes investigation also found audio recordings of a suspect who was apparently discussing the transfer of $45 million to the account of a top political adviser to the interim defence minister.
One of the main suspects in the case is Ziad Cattan, who was in charge of military procurement at a time when the ministry of defence went on a $1.2 billion buying spree, CBS News said.
Iraq’s Finance Minister Ali Allawi estimates that between $750 million and $800 million of that money was stolen.
The minister was also faced with the missing funds when he took over the position last year.
He said, "We have not been given any serious, official support from either the United States or the U.K. or any of the surrounding Arab countries.”
When asked about why the country has received so little support over the matter he said, "The only explanation I can come up with is that too many people in positions of power and authority in the new Iraq have been, in one way or another, found with their hands inside the cookie jar."

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 27, 2006 10:30 AM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Looks like the Foreign Investment Law (FIL) has been enacted!!!! Think I'll open a KFC in Baghdad!

This is great news!!

Hope this means the ISX will soon open to International trading!

====================================================================================
"In order to develop the economic and investment sectors, the government has succeeded in enacting an investment law, which was approved by the Council of Representatives. The Iraqi scene is now open for all national and foreign capital to invest and participate in improving the economic life, creating work opportunities and improving economic performance. There is room for investment in all industrial, agricultural, oil, housing and trade sectors. This gives the Iraqi economy strength and bases it on stronger foundations. It also gives us a chance to move forward towards investment in major projects that will be accomplished this year like the great port of Iraq, airports and large housing complexes. The government has made up its mind to do this and we have instructed the official quarters in the state to allocate a piece of land to every citizen who loses his land and needs to build a house. The real estate banks have also been instructed to provide the citizens with the necessary loans to build houses. The government will pay part of these loans in the form of grants and gifts. The government is also planning to build residential complexes in all governorates and districts to ease the crisis from which the inhabitants are suffering due to the dense population.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/11370

-- October 27, 2006 11:25 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, although I don't know you, you're in my thoughts. I hope your faith gives you strength.

I was listening to the radio today, when John Lennon's song, "Imagine" came up. I started listening to the words. I started thinking about them.

I remember when the song came out, I thought it was great. I shared the sentiment I thought was behind the song. Now that I'm a bit older, I guess I have changed a bit, and I don't agree with the song anymore.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today"

Well, John Lennon could imagine whatever he'd like. Everyone is free to do that. But, I say, how about this: imagine there IS a heaven. I'm not overly religious, but I do wonder sometimes, to imagine what's beyond. Maybe there IS something. To me, it's too easy to be cynical and imagine there's no heaven. The hard thing, it seems to me, is to imagine there IS. That's why I have a lot of respect for faith. It can't be easy.

No hell below us? Above us only sky? I'm not sure I want to live in that sort of universe. No hell below us means there is no ultimate justice. If you turn 6 million innocent people into lampshade covers, like the Nazis did with the skin of Jewish children, you are treated the same as Mother Theresa. Why is this a good thing to imagine?

If the universe really is like John Lennon imagined, there seems to be a whole lot less incentive to live up to, or even try to live up to, anything better than anyone's worst instincts. What's great about that?

"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace"

Imagine there's no countries? Was this guy serious? That reminds me of a story about Henry Kissinger. You remember that old guy with the black, horn rimmed nerd glasses, and the thick German accent, who was Secretary of State, under Nixon? So, thirty years ago, or so, Kissinger is in China, meeting with Mao Tse Tung. China is a country with 1.2 billion people, and over a hundred million dissidents. So Kissinger is lecturing Mao about human rights abuses, and he wants some human rights protesters released, and allowed to go to the United States. Mao turns to Kissinger, and says, "Sure....we have at least 100 million political dissidents who'd love to go to the United States....You can have them all...Can I send them all?...How many do you want?"

My point is, "imagine there's no country", is that really a good thing? I'll bet if you asked them, at least 6-7 billion people in the world would love to move to the United States. Are you people ready for that many houseguests? Are you sure? Whatever accomadation you are in, triple the number of people living under that space, just to make sure you want to share a bedroom.

A borderless world is crazy. Just ask the good people in Arizona about that one. The leaders of these countries should look after their own people better.

"Nothing to kill or die for
and no religon too. Imagine all the people. Living life in peace."

Well, if you look up in the Guiness Book of World Records, under Mass Genocides, the three top ones are all countries that removed religion as a restraining force on man's worst instincts. The top three are Communist China and the USSR, both officially godless, as well as Nazi Germany which removed the influence of religion. Imagine there's no religion, and everyone will be living in peace? I don't think so.

Which brings me to Al Queda and the Islamic fundementalists. Aren't they religious? Doesn't this prove religion causes war?

Well, maybe there are true religions, and false ones. The last thing the prophet Mohammed said to his followers was to convert the heathens, and if they wouldn't go along with it, then spread Islam by the sword.

My gut tells me that is evil. I believe people should be able to believe what they want, and that it is is evil to try to spread faith, which is an internal choice, by force.

Maybe there really is some sort of larger, unseen, spiritual war going on. Maybe the conflict we are investing in is part of a larger, spiritual war going on before our unseeing eyes. Who knows?

"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world"

Imagine no possesions? That sounds vaguely communistic and anti-capitalist. Is this guy nuts? Personally, I think capitalism has done more to liberate the human race from poverty than anything else.

No possesions also sounds vaguely spiritural, since Christ said, "Store not treasures up here on earth, where thieves can break in, and rust corrode". The New Testament does say not to put your faith in things. That doesn't mean things themselves are evil. It's our attitude toward them that can be evil, not the things themselves. Things are just, well, ...things.

For instance Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are giving away all their money, to help the poor. They will continue to be rich men, but together will give away over a hundred billion to projects that will help people in the third world get some wealth and education, so they can have a good standard of living.

John Lennon seemed to have the attitude that things themselves were evil, rather than the attitude towards them. Very dumb, and just plain wrong.

After dispensing with the value of possessions, Lennon goes on, in the verse to say there would be no need for greed or hunger, once we get rid of our stuff. We'd have a brotherhood of man. So, if everyone has nothing, then everyone would just love everyone else, and everything in the world would be great, and everyone would share the world in peace.

Well, I gotta tell you, I have a hard time not falling off my chair, laughing at the pollyannish naivite of that attitude.

I do vaguely remember a passage in the New Testament, read twenty years ago, about Christ asking a man to give up all his possessions, to prove his seriousness about following Christ. But I never took that as literal. I always thought that what was meant there was that people were required to actually DO something concrete, to help other people. I thought Christ was using a literary device of overstating something to make a point.

So I was thinking about all the "wisdom" of Imagine the other day. Then I remember an interview I once saw with John Kerry. He said like many in his party, he was a child of the 1960s, and his views were formed by that era.

So, I guess, "Imagine" is sort of a secular hymm or anthem for the left. It represents a worldview for the leaders of the Democratic Party. Now a few things make sense. They believe in this stuff? No wonder that party is so screwed up, and without a moral compass.

Upon revisiting a song from my younger days, I guess I reach a new conclusion:

Maybe John Lennon was wrong... Imagine that...

-- October 27, 2006 11:54 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, although I don't know you, you're in my thoughts. I hope your faith gives you strength.

I was listening to the radio today, when John Lennon's song, "Imagine" came up. I started listening to the words. I started thinking about them.

I remember when the song came out, I thought it was great. I shared the sentiment I thought was behind the song. Now that I'm a bit older, I guess I have changed a bit, and I don't agree with the song anymore.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today"

Well, John Lennon could imagine whatever he'd like. Everyone is free to do that. But, I say, how about this: imagine there IS a heaven. I'm not overly religious, but I do wonder sometimes, to imagine what's beyond. Maybe there IS something. To me, it's too easy to be cynical and imagine there's no heaven. The hard thing, it seems to me, is to imagine there IS. That's why I have a lot of respect for faith. It can't be easy.

No hell below us? Above us only sky? I'm not sure I want to live in that sort of universe. No hell below us means there is no ultimate justice. If you turn 6 million innocent people into lampshade covers, like the Nazis did with the skin of Jewish children, you are treated the same as Mother Theresa. Why is this a good thing to imagine?

If the universe really is like John Lennon imagined, there seems to be a whole lot less incentive to live up to, or even try to live up to, anything better than anyone's worst instincts. What's great about that?

"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace"

Imagine there's no countries? Was this guy serious? That reminds me of a story about Henry Kissinger. You remember that old guy with the black, horn rimmed nerd glasses, and the thick German accent, who was Secretary of State, under Nixon? So, thirty years ago, or so, Kissinger is in China, meeting with Mao Tse Tung. China is a country with 1.2 billion people, and over a hundred million dissidents. So Kissinger is lecturing Mao about human rights abuses, and he wants some human rights protesters released, and allowed to go to the United States. Mao turns to Kissinger, and says, "Sure....we have at least 100 million political dissidents who'd love to go to the United States....You can have them all...Can I send them all?...How many do you want?"

My point is, "imagine there's no country", is that really a good thing? I'll bet if you asked them, at least 6-7 billion people in the world would love to move to the United States. Are you people ready for that many houseguests? Are you sure? Whatever accomadation you are in, triple the number of people living under that space, just to make sure you want to share a bedroom.

A borderless world is crazy. Just ask the good people in Arizona about that one. The leaders of these countries should look after their own people better.

"Nothing to kill or die for
and no religon too. Imagine all the people. Living life in peace."

Well, if you look up in the Guiness Book of World Records, under Mass Genocides, the three top ones are all countries that removed religion as a restraining force on man's worst instincts. The top three are Communist China and the USSR, both officially godless, as well as Nazi Germany which removed the influence of religion. Imagine there's no religion, and everyone will be living in peace? I don't think so.

Which brings me to Al Queda and the Islamic fundementalists. Aren't they religious? Doesn't this prove religion causes war?

Well, maybe there are true religions, and false ones. The last thing the prophet Mohammed said to his followers was to convert the heathens, and if they wouldn't go along with it, then spread Islam by the sword.

My gut tells me that is evil. I believe people should be able to believe what they want, and that it is is evil to try to spread faith, which is an internal choice, by force.

Maybe there really is some sort of larger, unseen, spiritual war going on. Maybe the conflict we are investing in is part of a larger, spiritual war going on before our unseeing eyes. Who knows?

"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world"

Imagine no possesions? That sounds vaguely communistic and anti-capitalist. Is this guy nuts? Personally, I think capitalism has done more to liberate the human race from poverty than anything else.

No possesions also sounds vaguely spiritural, since Christ said, "Store not treasures up here on earth, where thieves can break in, and rust corrode". The New Testament does say not to put your faith in things. That doesn't mean things themselves are evil. It's our attitude toward them that can be evil, not the things themselves. Things are just, well, ...things.

For instance Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are giving away all their money, to help the poor. They will continue to be rich men, but together will give away over a hundred billion to projects that will help people in the third world get some wealth and education, so they can have a good standard of living.

John Lennon seemed to have the attitude that things themselves were evil, rather than the attitude towards them. Very dumb, and just plain wrong.

After dispensing with the value of possessions, Lennon goes on, in the verse to say there would be no need for greed or hunger, once we get rid of our stuff. We'd have a brotherhood of man. So, if everyone has nothing, then everyone would just love everyone else, and everything in the world would be great, and everyone would share the world in peace.

Well, I gotta tell you, I have a hard time not falling off my chair, laughing at the pollyannish naivite of that attitude.

I do vaguely remember a passage in the New Testament, read twenty years ago, about Christ asking a man to give up all his possessions, to prove his seriousness about following Christ. But I never took that as literal. I always thought that what was meant there was that people were required to actually DO something concrete, to help other people. I thought Christ was using a literary device of overstating something to make a point.

So I was thinking about all the "wisdom" of Imagine the other day. Then I remember an interview I once saw with John Kerry. He said like many in his party, he was a child of the 1960s, and his views were formed by that era.

So, I guess, "Imagine" is sort of a secular hymm or anthem for the left. It represents a worldview for the leaders of the Democratic Party. Now a few things make sense. They believe in this stuff? No wonder that party is so screwed up, and without a moral compass.

Upon revisiting a song from my younger days, I guess I reach a new conclusion:

Maybe John Lennon was wrong... Imagine that...

-- October 27, 2006 11:54 AM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

A sudden rise of the dollar exchange rate in Iraq
Because of Eid holiday
27/10/2006
Source: Asharq Al-Awsat

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=2404

The dollar exchange rate varied between the Iraqi Central Bank and local markets, especially after the official auction to sell currencies stopped convening for ten days because of Eid al-Fitr.

The observers of the currency market confirmed that any occasion interposed by public holidays, specially those that continue for several days, is expected to raise the value of the American dollar against the Iraqi dinar but the difference is limited and does not exceed in the most serious cases 1500 dinars to the dollar, because such increases in the view of some speculators will be temporary, and they fear from the Iraqi Central Bank being a safety valve of the Iraqi dinar and market. If the Bank thought that the market rose, as the case happened a year and a half ago, it would suspend its vacation to begin offering large amounts of hard currency on the market directly and at prices lower than the circulation price; that is why most speculators are afraid to keep large quantities within their bags due to the risk of loss. But, dealing in the market is done on the basis of supply and demand; this means that small speculators, dealing directly with citizens, would achieve very high profits for this reason. And about their expectations of market prices, the observer demonstrated that the dollar exchange rate in the central auction, held in the Iraqi Central Bank, finally began to retreat before the Iraqi dinar, as the Bank started floating huge amounts of dollars because of the government's need for local cash, especially as the volume of government's consumption increased recently and this requires securing these expenses through the auction. The supply has increased lately from $ 35 million to $ 60 million per day.

The Bank started its daily auction with 1470 dinars to the dollar after being 1477. As for the markets, the dealers with citizen were not affected by the sudden decline but they would rush to raise their prices at the same moment with the increase; thus, it is expected for the demand to increase during these ten days, which would not be attended by the Iraqi Central Bank, but not much. About the last formal cession of the Bank, the auction manager there clarified that the sale price at which the auction came to was 1470 dinars to the dollar, accepted by the Bank, according to the buyers' desire and sold $ 43.8 million at the same prices. The quantity sold in cash to the Banks and its clients was $ 18.690 million at the price of 1470 with the addition of 11 points as prices contrast and profitability ratios, while the quantity sold for remittances to out of Iraq was $ 25 million, at 1470 dinars. This means that the amount of remittances surpassed the sale quantities of banks and this is due to the high demand for transfer, especially after the increased need to acquit the companies collaborating with the outside and the start of the reconstruction phase in Iraq.

Translated by IRAQdirectory.com Team

-- October 27, 2006 12:17 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Enjoy. Good Article from www.iraqiupdates.com

Iraqi PM says no deadline for US pullout, rejects militias at news conference

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

27 October 2006 (BBC Monitoring)
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Baghdad has said as far as he was aware there was no official US deadline for pulling out of Iraq. He criticized a "lack of coordination" between multinational and Iraqi forces over the raid in Al-Sadr City, Baghdad on 25 October. Al-Maliki was speaking live at a 33-minute news conference broadcast by Al-Iraqiyah TV on 25 October. He said that all armed groups and militias were damaging to the security of the state and said that their displays of arms should end as the national security forces were solely responsible for state security. The premier also expressed optimism about moves towards reconciliation and began his comments by emphasizing strengths and accomplishments of Iraq.

"Strength"

The news conference was broadcast in progress. Al-Maliki said: "Talk about the Iraqi state and its strength and effectiveness has been lost in the midst of talk about terrorism and scenes of blood and death. Today we have a government and an Iraqi state that is established on constitutional and democratic bases and on principles of freedom, justice and democracy. This state is based on these pillars, which give it strength and legitimacy because it truly expresses the Iraqi people's will and options, represented by their active participation in the elections and political process.

"I am talking about this state, which has achieved wide and great accomplishments on a long road. This government, which inherited much from the previous governments, is determined to take several tracks.

Economy, rights, education

The first track is that of improving the Iraqi economy, easing the brunt of poverty inherited from the former regime, and providing public services after the destruction of the infrastructure. Praised be God, there is large improvement in the economy and per capita income and in the level of services that are rendered daily in the various governorates. Also there is improvement in the fields of investment and economy and a rise in the level of income. Hundreds of thousands of jobless people have been employed. This is something which must be taken into consideration. I confidently say, based on accurate figures, that hundreds of thousands of people were absorbed in state institutions in the various domains. These include the educational and industrial sectors. Tens of thousands of people who were dismissed for political reasons during the former regime have been reinstated.

"It also pleases me to talk about the strength of the state in entrenching principles of human rights and developing the educational sectors and higher education. It improved performance in these areas after having inherited ruined schools and universities. Praised be God, our universities have now started to recover and our schools have started to regain their status. Determination is still strong. The state will allocate a large explosive budget next year for all sectors. The budget will for the first time come close to 40bn dollars from 19bn dollars in the first year.

"In order to develop the economic and investment sectors, the government has succeeded in enacting an investment law, which was approved by the Council of Representatives. The Iraqi scene is now open for all national and foreign capital to invest and participate in improving the economic life, creating work opportunities and improving economic performance. There is room for investment in all industrial, agricultural, oil, housing and trade sectors. This gives the Iraqi economy strength and bases it on stronger foundations. It also gives us a chance to move forward towards investment in major projects that will be accomplished this year like the great port of Iraq, airports and large housing complexes. The government has made up its mind to do this and we have instructed the official quarters in the state to allocate a piece of land to every citizen who loses his land and needs to build a house. The real estate banks have also been instructed to provide the citizens with the necessary loans to build houses. The government will pay part of these loans in the form of grants and gifts. The government is also planning to build residential complexes in all governorates and districts to ease the crisis from which the inhabitants are suffering due to the dense population.

Terrorism

"I will also talk about the agenda according to which the government is moving. In fact, we have a clear and multi-track agenda. No track dominates another track in this agenda. All move in accordance with a set plan and a scientific study based on an accurate understanding of the Iraqi situation. We move from the principle of reconciliation and national dialogue to the principle of building the armed forces, the principle of reconstruction and public services, and the principle of using force to stand up to the challenges and to confront the terrorism which seeks to spread and encroach on Iraq's political and democratic march. All these are well-calculated tracks. We do not give precedence to one track over another except as required by the national interests and the exceptional situation we inherited. Therefore, talk about dialogue, reconstruction and national reconciliation does not mean that we ignore the need to build our forces or to use force against the organizations of terrorism and violence which want to sow corruption in the country and kill the citizens. Using force does not mean that security can be attained only through force. This is one of the methods. What we are working on and what we are giving precedence to is reconciliation as well as dialogue, understanding, sense of responsibility, and enlightened awareness that the continuation of violence and killing does not lead to results and there will be no winner. The first loser will be the country and the unity of this dear country and the unity of these people, who have never known in their history other than brotherhood and amity.

No one will ever benefit from this atmosphere, which is fed by the will and interests of countries and local organizations and leaderships, some of which are political. They want Iraq to return to the atmosphere which prevailed during the dictatorial regime. They want to sow the seeds of sectarianism in this country, whose people have never known sectarianism. They loved each other and were reconciled and partners in public life.

"Move towards reconciliation"

"The agenda we are working on seeks first to end the current deterioration and find a decisive limit to one of the stations which we believe we have passed. I would like to emphasize that this agenda and the policy we adopted have largely succeeded because the general atmosphere in the country is prompting the zealous and faithful sons of Iraq to move towards reconciliation and rejection of violence and bloody killings. This is a positive phenomenon which has started to expand. Anyone watching the Iraqi scene has started to witness progress in the effective, strong and positive stands towards encircling violence and rejecting bloody methods. We have succeeded in this and this success gives us a strong background to work on the other issues. One of these issues is that in accordance with the law we will strongly react and use force against those who rebel against the national will of the Iraqi people. If we had employed this logic in the past, it might have been rejected. But all have now come to realize that bloodshed only breeds bloodshed. The mentality which sidelines or cancels others does not provide any with stability. All are in a predicament now. Based on this predicament, we began to think of a way out. This is the beginning of victory. The issue must be decisively resolved by taking other stands.

Terrorist organizations

"Here, too, I would like to indicate that the battle we are waging in Iraq and the bloody process taking place are due to the presence of terrorist organizations. These entered the country for different reasons. Some of them belong to [former President] Saddam's Ba'th Party and others belong to corrupt ideology and takfiri [those who hold that others are infidels] organizations. These are the ones who triggered sectarian feelings in the country on political grounds. The detonation of the two Al-Askari imams' shrine was the first serious station in the escalation of sectarian violence. This was followed by other stations. Consequently, terrorism and the terrorist and Saddamist organizations are primarily responsible for all that is taking place in this country and the reactions to it. Therefore, we must first absorb the reactions and direct all efforts towards confronting the terrorist organizations and their programmes and policies.

"We will continue the policy we announced. We believe that the side which should embrace all the Iraqis is the state or government in which all participate. All sectors of the Iraqi people are represented in it. From the legal, legitimate and practical point of view, the state is responsible for security and for the country. None outside the circle of government has the right to talk about responsibility except through the official channels which can absorb all popular efforts and civil society institutions. Only the state has the right to carry arms and punish those who break the law. Therefore, we clearly announced that we will hit strongly and call to account anyone who breaks the law or carries arms and encroaches on the state. All should know - and I understand this well and I am optimistic - that the policy of having armed forces and militias by the side of the government harms the stability and unity of the country. Therefore, we will continue to confront the terrorism launched against us. We must put an end to it by absorbing all reactions. All displays of arms should end in favour of the sole armed presence, as represented by the state.

"Foreign interference"

"I regret that I speak bitterly here, and almost at the final stage of this talk, about the phenomenon of foreign interference in Iraqi affairs and the bloody scenes we see daily. When we examine them we find that they are linked to this or that country. We have spoken to friendly and neighbouring countries and said: What you want to happen in Iraq will not be at the expense of the Iraqi people alone. It effects will be destructive even to those who extended fire at Iraqi society. Perhaps time has started to run out and we can no longer accept this interference. I hope we will not reach the point at which we will be forced to announce things and take stands towards those who kill our people every day and those who export death to us every day. I wish they would reconsider their calculations and adopt responsible stands and excuse us if we take clear and franks stands.

"Iraq under the new government - the government of national unity - has repeatedly announced its foreign policy, which extends a hand of cooperation, peace and friendship on the basis of good positive relations and non-interference in others' affairs. This is a general policy we will implement towards all countries, particularly the neighbouring countries with which we have strong historical ties. But this should not be interpreted as weakness on the part of Iraq and thus be exploited to meddle in its affairs and trigger sedition for political reasons that have nothing to do with the Iraqi people's interests. We hope they will help us pursue the policy of good neighbourliness, non-interference and the resolution of problems through dialogue. I also hope that all the political forces which participated in this government will shoulder their responsibility. It is neither reasonable nor acceptable for any political entity participating in this government or Council of Representatives to avoid making the difficult decision of standing by the side of the government and supporting its policy. Otherwise, it will be considered a partner that does not shoulder its responsibility. This will conflict with the logic of responsibility which must prevail in anything we do.

"The statement I issued to our armed and security forces said that in the wake of all these accomplishments by the government in the field of reconciliation and the field of containing crises, these forces should be alert and ready to take deterrent measures against anyone who breaks the law, attacks citizens or is involved in murder, abduction, explosions or attacks. Thank you." The prime minister then opened the floor for questions.

Ali al-Yasiri from Al-Hurrah television began the question-answer session by asking the prime minister whether the government's "weak performance" was due to the adoption of the principle of accord in the government formation. He also asked whether it was true the Americans set a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign forces from Iraq within 18 months. Responding, Al-Maliki said: "It is regrettable that we understand accord to mean quota system. Accord is not a quota system." He added that accord means providing all political forces and entities with the best chance to participate in the government.

18-month pullout deadline

He then responded to the second question on the 18-month deadline by saying: "The US government has the right to reconsider its policy as deemed fit for its interests although I am confident that what is said is not said by the official state quarters. Yesterday you all heard the State Department spokesman or the US president's statement in which he denied such logic, the logic of a deadline or a period of time. I also stress that all know that this government is based on the people's national will. None has the right to set timetables for it. But the others have the right to make decisions that are in harmony with their interests." He then said: "I am confident that this logic is not the official logic of the US government but one of the results of the current electoral competition and this does not concern us much. Second, I am confident that this issue is subject to the will of the government and the people who elected it."

Al-Sadr City raid

Ahmad Abd-al-Husayn from Al-Iraqiyah Television then asked: "You said a short while ago that there is deterioration in security and that there will be a firm response. Is this an announcement that there will be new security measures by the government? This is the first question. The second question is: Al-Sadr City is currently encircled by the US forces. What is you comment on this issue?" Responding, the prime minister said: "The security measures I talked about provide the necessary ground for the adoption of the method of confronting rebellion and encroachment on state prestige by force. Therefore, I clearly said we instructed our security and military services to act against any illegal or illegitimate display of arms.

What is happening in Al-Sadr City and other areas is mainly due to a lack of coordination between our security services and those of the multinational forces. This is one of the issues under continuous discussion between us in order to attain the best possible coordination so that things will be under control."

At this point in the news conference, Al-Iraqiyah Television interrupts its live relay of the news conference for seven minutes to relay the noon prayers.

Qasim al-Sa'di from the Associated Press asked the prime minister whether the Iraqi government had "a new plan to extend" the mandate of the multinational forces in Iraq for another year. He also asked whether the Iraqi government was informed in advance of the multinational forces' activities in Al-Sadr City. Responding, Al-Maliki said UN Security Council Resolution 1637 on the multinational forces' mandate in Iraq should be reconsidered by the end of the year to either extend or modify these forces' mandate. He added: "The government sent a plan to the Political Council for National Security, including the modification of paragraphs in the resolution on the basis of what was accomplished in building the Iraqi forces and the progress made in these forces' ability to maintain security. A number of ideas were submitted to the Political Council for National Security for discussion. These ideas will also be discussed by the government. Later they will be sent to parliament, which will have the final say about extending the mandate and deciding the basis on which this will take place."

Responding to the second question, Al-Maliki says: "One of the issues which should be reconsidered is the issue of powers and coordination between the multinational forces and the Iraqi forces. If the Iraqi forces and the government are wanted to take over responsibility for security from the multinational forces, there should be clarity in powers, limits of ability and clear powers to build the forces so that coordination with these forces can take place on a clear basis. This will be a transitional issue in the process of assuming responsibility for security in the governorates or the process of control and command for the divisions. This is the progress made in taking over governorates. Half of the Iraqi governorates will be turned over by the end of the year. Control and command over a number of military divisions require a revision of the resolution and a new agreement that grants the government the power to move these forces and draw up security plans to maintain security in the governorates, including Baghdad, Al-Sadr City, and other regions suffering from tension should be reached."

Federalism

Ahmad Abd-al-Qadir from Biladi television station asked about the way the government will deal with the regional governments if a federal system is implemented in Iraq. Responding, the prime minister said the federal law was approved by parliament but "federalism should not expose the unity of Iraq or the strength of the Iraqi state to danger". He added: "This means the Iraqi state must remain strong and united." He then said "federalism should be established in an atmosphere of awareness of the interests that can be served by the formation of regions under the unity and strength of the Iraqi state". He concluded by saying the federal system should not lead to "a state of sectarianism and competition or internal strife within the federal region".

Layth Ahmad from Radio Free Iraq asked whether the anti-terror law will be activated. Responding, the prime minister said the law was currently valid but "I tend to postpone activating and implementing it pending the exhaustion of all opportunities and political avenues. We do not want to resort to force and violence before exhausting all efforts to find a solution through national dialogue and agreement."

After a 45-second break in audio transmission, the prime minister was heard saying, in progress "one of the things I count on when talking about the phenomenon of cohesion among the political forces forming the government is the stance adopted by His Eminence Al-Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr in support of the government and against those who act in the name of Al-Sadr's movement and attack others. These are good stands. As for what happened in Al-Sadr City, we will ask for a clarification of what happened. We will review this issue with the multinational forces so that it will not be repeated." He added: "The government should be aware of and part of any military operation. Coordination is a demand on which the joint political process between us and the multinational forces should be based."

Fatimah al-Hasani from Al-Furat Television asked what should be done to avoid human losses in Iraq if "coordination between the US and Iraqi forces is bad". Responding, the prime minister said: "We have coordination. To some extent there is coordination between us and the coalition forces. We have almost daily contacts on security issues. But as I said, there is weakness in the coordination process and this has to be fixed." He added that confronting the acts of violence taking place in Iraq requires a mechanism and "we believe that the government should have the right to move its forces to help the citizens in areas like Sab al-Bur [a Baghdad neighbourhood]".

Source: Al-Iraqiyah TV, Baghdad

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 27, 2006 12:24 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

Interesting thoughts on the song by Lennon. I appreciated it.

Carole;

I got what you were thinking of..

Carl;

Mighty Mouse and the superheroes I remember from growing up all helped mankind with good deeds, but didn't seem to add anything to our ability to enter heaven, which is what I think Carole was on about. (I think "The Incredibles" was a cute modern day one, too. If you haven't seen it, you should.)

The concept of sin is often quite foreign in the "Christian" West.. the idea that God gets angry with wrongdoing (like making people's skin into lampshades) enough to punish them after the grave unless they get right with God.

I guess it makes sense to some people, while others reject it along with the idea that there is a God to make that judgement. The difference, I believe, is God's choice, not man's. Whereas some say we have complete freewill to choose whatever we wish.. I agree that is true, EXCEPT when coming to know God.

The Bible says that Jesus says to His followers, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." (John 15:16) That first phrase.. "you have NOT chosen me".. is overlooked by many. It means the choice to be a Christian is not man's choice, but God's alone. You CANNOT repent unless God gives you the grace.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That says explicitly no man can, of his own freewill, choose to come to God. "No man can come to me, EXCEPT" God must "draw" them. If they do not wish to become a Christian, that is because they are not given the grace (the "drawing" in their heart) to be one. It also seems foolish to them, the Bible says:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It looks far too foolish to be the truth.. they do not see it, they think it silly.. they are not able to turn to God.. because God is not calling them to be His. He chooses to save whom He wishes to go to heaven.. and whomever He does not wish, He hardens them so they oppose and are hateful toward Him and His truth.

Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will he hardens.

This is a sad but great truth that not all men will turn and repent and go to heaven. It is because they have no respect or fear of God.

Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you should fear: Fear Him, which, after he has killed has the power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him.

Those who cannot receive that admonition.. are damned. Those who laugh now at God will one day cry in hell. If anyone can hear His voice in their heart.. if their hearts are not hard against Him, they should not willfully harden their hearts against Him:

Heb 3:15 While it is said, Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the provocation.

If you do not know if there is a God, and it seems incredible to you that He would exact punishment upon your or anyone else's wrongdoings (sin), do not harden your heart against God and the truth because to you it seems foolish. Do not turn and mock and scorn the truth. Do not harden your heart and so sleep the sleep of death (Ps 13:3). I speak this with tears and because I love you, and because I believe that God tells the truth, however fantastic and unbelievable it appears to man. If you carried back in time a suitcase nuke to Jesus' day and you told a person you met there about a tiny atom being split and the suitcase being capable of destroying their entire city, they too would have mocked you as foolish, if not mad. It is, nevertheless, the truth... and has great destructive power beyond their imaginings.

But I wish better things for you than that, though I do so speak.

Taxmama;

Going to tell us what was in the conference call yesterday from Freedinar?
I heard there was one.. and it was a good one??

Sara.

-- October 27, 2006 1:14 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Sara - it was an good call. Some of the highlites:

. When the CBI was closed last week, they switched servers. All of the banks in Iraq are now linked together. They wanted to have it done by 10/31 as that was a required by the IMF. Lots of speculation that the peg could happen on 10/31.
Currently all the banks in Iraq are closed till 10/31.

The Foreign Investment Law has now been enacted.

There is 12 to 15 trillion Dinar out there. An investor from Manhatten was on the call. He has huge quantities of Dinar. He is a retired stock broker. He has put intense time into research on all of this and he speculates it could open at about .75c USD.
He pointed out that when Sadam took power the dinar was $3.2- and oil was $15 per barrel (hard to imagine). He is basing his supposition on the huge oil reserves. Many of the reserves have been found by satellite imaging.

There was talk about how the banks would handle the technology of exchanges to convert it, such as the metal stripe, etc. Will be interesting.

Talk was that Chase is will probably be the first bank to trade dinar in the U.S. after the peg. They have a history of the most knowledge in that area.

They feel that when it first pegs, it maybe wouldn't go up or down much for a period of time for securities issues with stability.

So, those were the highlites from my notes.

-- October 27, 2006 2:13 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

taxmama said:

Lots of speculation that the peg could happen on 10/31.

The Foreign Investment Law has now been enacted.

===end of quote===

Those are MY notes!! LOL :)

Thanks for the good rumor news. I hope they are right this time. The $.75 sounds very good.. I particularly hope a high rate such as that is being contemplated. Again, thanks for the post, taxmama.

Sara.

-- October 27, 2006 3:19 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Rob N;

Your post confirms the FIL being enacted. :)
Thanks for posting it.

Sara.

===
Rob N posted, QUOTE:
All:

Enjoy. Good Article from www.iraqiupdates.com

Iraqi PM says no deadline for US pullout, rejects militias at news conference

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

27 October 2006 (BBC Monitoring)

Economy, rights, education

"In order to develop the economic and investment sectors, the government has succeeded in enacting an investment law, which was approved by the Council of Representatives. The Iraqi scene is now open for all national and foreign capital to invest and participate in improving the economic life, creating work opportunities and improving economic performance. There is room for investment in all industrial, agricultural, oil, housing and trade sectors. This gives the Iraqi economy strength and bases it on stronger foundations. It also gives us a chance to move forward towards investment in major projects that will be accomplished this year like the great port of Iraq, airports and large housing complexes. The government has made up its mind to do this and we have instructed the official quarters in the state to allocate a piece of land to every citizen who loses his land and needs to build a house. The real estate banks have also been instructed to provide the citizens with the necessary loans to build houses. The government will pay part of these loans in the form of grants and gifts. The government is also planning to build residential complexes in all governorates and districts to ease the crisis from which the inhabitants are suffering due to the dense population.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125795

-- October 27, 2006 3:46 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Taxmama:

Good to hear from you. If what was said on the call happens on 10/31/06, it will change all of our lives forever beginning with the pig roast. Though I have not bought near enough Dinar, I hope your investor is correct.

I am of course prepared to watch 10/31/06 to come and go without movement on the Dinar exchange rate. Even if a revalue does occur on Tuesday, it will take our banks here in the U.S. several weeks to prepare to exchange the Dinar for U.S. Dollars.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 27, 2006 5:09 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Definitely there are now in place TIMELINES the Iraqis must adhere to..
Accountability is necessary..

Quote:

Iraq PM, U.S. Envoy Issue Rare Statement
By STEVEN R. HURST
Oct 27, 3:04 PM EDT
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- After a tense week in U.S.-Iraqi relations, the prime minister and the U.S. ambassador issued a rare joint statement Friday in which Iraq reaffirmed its commitment to a "good and strong" relationship with the United States.

The statement also said that Iraq "made clear the issues that must be resolved with timelines for them to take positive steps forward."

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had issued several public statements this week declaring that the United States had no right to impose "timetables" on his government.

That contradicted Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad's assertion that the al-Maliki government had already agreed to set timelines for curbing violence and solving other problems.

The statement was issued after the two men met "to discuss our ongoing efforts to bring peace and security to Iraq and create a better future for all Iraqis," the highly unusual joint statement said.

---

There also was rampant speculation in Baghdad that the United States was preparing to dump al-Maliki, who was the compromise candidate for prime minister from among the dominant Shiite Muslims in parliament. His government has been in power five months.

In an apparent bid to squelch the speculation, the statement said, "The United States will continue to stand by the Iraqi government."

http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_US?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CT IME=2006-10-27-15-04-28

So the replacement of Maliki talk has been going on.. timelines were implemented instead.

Sara.

-- October 27, 2006 6:18 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Dropping in,

Reval at 75 cents, I'll take it, but believe it when I see it. I'm sure that finance guy have done a lot of research, and I'm not in any way or form saying he is wrong in his assumption, as long as we can call it an assumption.

Don't know how many prognosticators I've seen, and wild guesses about what level of reval it should have.

Fact is, it's an estimate, and any estimate is just that, because any arbitrary setting is never a true value of the Dinar. Only a free traded currency, as any currency, can be truly realized to it's value.

The banks have been installing a new software program and are now realigned as to a common, and inter active working computer system.

I can not see any relationship of reval the Dinar, because they have dressed in the same uniform. It might happen, but not because they have installed software.

I feel also that when the first peg happens, it will sit there for a while, hey why do we call it peg in the first place?

Do appreciate any and all input though, even if I have an idea that the investor participating in the conference call, was paid to say what he said, or had received a compensation in one form or the other. That in itself doesn't necessarily disqualify a person with info, but the underlying purpose is that Dinar dealers will sell more Dinars, or seminars, or books about the subject.

What is it Carl use to say,-" Behind every ....."

Ok , I will watch the Dinars on that date, but remember I have seen a couple of dates like that, come and gone already.

Hard facts speaks more for it to happen, like the investment law.

Now, there is a caveat in this, the investment law, is a law that has to be there, in order to be able to do the Carbon hydrate law. That is the up and going law.

THAT'S the one that will count.

I think the Iraqis will have a hard time to find investors, wanting to do Nike shoes, or car parts in Baghdad, at this time, but I DON'T THINK THEY WILL HAVE ANY PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER, TO FIND OIL COMPANIES WANTING TO INVEST IN THEIR OIL PRODUCTION.

However, the Carbon hydrate law, can not exist in the form of a foreign investment law, if the basic and fundamental Foreign Investment Law is not made first.

It's just done, well done to the Iraqis, but to the oil companies, the Hydroc law is what they can actually act and make contracts based upon.

From what I read, the Hydro law is right now in the form of it's first proposals, and up for debate in the parliament.

THATS the one you want to watch.

-- October 28, 2006 12:33 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Taxmama,

Banks are dealing with foreign currency all the time, the Iraqi Dinar is up in par in quality and safety features as any modern currency.

I can't see that a magnetic strip is a problem, most currencies have them. They have holographic, ultraviolet, waterstamps, microprint and a couple of other safety features. The safety features, will only add to the ease of exchange. A simpler and more easily faked currency will be a tougher act to exchange, THEY need more attention than a modern one. Machines can scan currency very quick.

Al in all, I doubt that that particular part will be a problem of bigger magnitude.

-- October 28, 2006 2:21 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Tim Bitts

Thank you for your concern and thoughts.

I especially liked your analagies concerning John Lennon. I wasn't much of a beattles fan, even though I was a young adult during theit reign. My favorite of the group was Ringo, the drummer. I think he was a little kookie too. Anyway, sounds like you have some deep introspection. ..."seek and ye shall find....ask and it shall be given unto you...."

My mom survived her surgery very well, and now the waiting game of about 10 days for a full recovery.

Hi Roger,

LAst week our realestate investor freind made some proclamation to a group of people that the DInar would hit at the end of the month. My 5th daughter ( the one who posted last weekend to you) was present during his proclamation. I was really ticked that he would do such a thing and had every intention of tryong to meet with him to discuss his declarations, becuase it causes so much havoc in the minds and hearts of those who hold him in such high esteem.

Well, I never got to meet with him, because my mom got sick.

But, now since I read all the postings from the last day, I wonder if he really does have something to say of validity. He always seems to be just little ahead of what hits the "news rumors".

At some point, I really do hope to talk to him personally. I feel like everyone else, I wished this darn thing would hit!!!

At.$75, I think I would cash everything in and be done with it.

Do you think there will be alot of private selling of peoples dinars, during the inital RV?

-- October 28, 2006 4:16 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl, Thanks for your help concerning my defense team!!

SOme cute and interesting thoughts by you.

I wished I could report differently, but no one will ever be able to accuse me of praying "alot" or too much..

In fact most or many of my problems result from lack of prayer....

but thanks for the encouragement anyway.

-- October 28, 2006 4:30 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Fear God. Honor the King. 1 Peter 2:17

These are not options in the Bible, they are commands.
The King is the one under whose rulership the country stands.
You can disagree respectfully all you wish with President Bush's policies.
To dishonor him is to transgress this command (to sin).

When I see those in the nation who disrespect President Bush as they do,
making fun of his mannerisms, calling him stupid..
I think of the command (above) and wonder at them.

There is no fear of God before their eyes..
and the punishment they are heaping up for themselves one day is astronomical.

Notice how such Americans are agreeing with our enemies..
how they ridicule him with them. Mark them well..
and be careful not to imitate such disrespect.
"Fear God. Honor the King."

Acting "cute" by cutting a joke against him for laughs..
cutting him down to size, they used to call it..
belittling him..
Well:

Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Sara.

-- October 28, 2006 8:12 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Kuwait to host meeting of Intl Compact for Iraq

KUWAIT: Kuwait government will host a preparatory meeting for the International Compact for Iraq on October 31 where discussions would focus on the final preparations to endorse the international compact by the end of 2006.

A statement by the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development (KFAED) said yesterday the meeting would be attended by Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Kuwait Sheikh Mohammad Al-Sabah and US Assistance Secretary of State, Iraqi Vice-president, and senior officials representing 22 states as well as the United Nations.

The meeting would discuss the procedures to develop the international compact to guarantee that reconstruction efforts in Iraq would continue, said KFAED.

It went on saying that another preparatory meeting would be held in Baghdad which would precede the official International Compact conference to be held by the end of this year.

Kuwait confirmed its supports to the Iraqi government during the last meeting in the UAE. The Kuwaiti Fund granted the Iraqis $60 million to finance the sectors of Education and Health, as well as easy loans worth $450 million were also given to develop several projects in Iraq.

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/Navariednews.asp?dismode=article&artid=45163031

-- October 28, 2006 8:34 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

The "Interglobe" Company installed new systems at the
CBI and a wide area network that links them with the banks. A lot of work going on right now modernizing the financial systems.

I believe they want to get the ISX going to bring in more investment. If they do that...wouldn't it be wise to RV the dinar first?

COM'ON DINAR!!!

======================================================================================

"Owns and operated over 80 enterprise networks using satellite and microwave communications. Such networks and projects in Iraq include the Ministries of Oil, Education, the Central Bank of Iraq and the Iraqi Inter-banking network."

http://www.interglobenetworks.com/accom.htm

-- October 28, 2006 8:37 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Link correction..
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/Navariednews.asp?dismode=article&artid=451630313

Okie;

I think it would be wise to RV for that reason, too.
The RV has a plethora of things which will strengthen Iraq and its economy..

Sara.

-- October 28, 2006 8:57 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

You are so right about our attitude toward our President.

But unbeleivers just do not understand this, as they do not understand so much.

The cross is foolishness to those who perish.(1Cor.1:18)

Much of scripture is directed at believers. Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit it is impossible for man to understand much less obey the directions for living a life that is pleasing and honoring to God.

While I so very much agree with you on most everything, it is so difficult to address and open audience with doctrines that are foreign to them, and which they have no power to understand.

Even the writers of the epistles ( mostly Paul) chose their audiences to whom they gave instructions, exhortations, and admonishments to.

We should not ask the blind to walk a tight rope, rather attempt to give them sight first.

And try to remember what it was like when we were blind.

For myself, looking back there was no worse unbeliever, rebellious, God hating and disobedient creature than me.....

God knocked several times in my life, and I rejected HIs gracious calling. But eventually, I decided to open my heart to His calling.

He extends HImself to everyone, so that in the last day no one will have an excuse.

Unless someone is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, who is the intrepreter and teacher of all truth of God's Word
( the bible), it is like reading someone elses mail---it makes no sense....

-- October 28, 2006 10:37 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

One more thought:

I think it would be more pleasing and benificial to have compassion rather than disdain towards the blindman.

I am truly pointing the finger at myself...cause I get out of line in that area frequently....

-- October 28, 2006 10:52 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, no, President Bush is not dumb. Small minds like to pretend he is, because it makes them feel superior, and gives meaning to their pathetic lives.

Actually, the President's IQ has been published several times, in leading newspapers. He's in the top 5% of the population. This is based on tests administered when someone enters the U.S. military, and takes officer training.

And guess what? President Bush's IQ is slightly higher than John Kerry's. When asked about this, John Kerry said, 'I guess I must have been hung over'. Pretty lame.

I wouldn't worry too much about the chattering of the monkeys. I remember Mario Cuomo, ex-govenor of New York, author of Why Lincoln Matters, being interviewed by Tim Russert.

Guess what? Govenor Cuomo said a lot of people had called Lincoln an idiot, in his day! Lincoln! The man who freed the slaves.

President Bush is thinking 10 to 20 years down the road, and putting his country's interests first. The people criticizing him can't think past the bagel they are having for breakfast.

-- October 28, 2006 11:50 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Good morning!
I know this is really off the DInar subject,( and will no doubtly bother some), but why is our ever so smart President ( and I mean that respectfully), not able to get us to a border control?

It is an undebatable our most vulnerable area to national security and defense.

I am interested on what you think, cause I can not understand his intentions and mostly his actions or lack of actions on this subject.

-- October 28, 2006 1:09 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, you ask, why hasn't President Bush been able to get border control with Mexico? I suspect it is because his heart is really not in it. He has Mexicans in his family. It's very personal with him. I remember seeing him on stage once with his half-Mexican nephew. If I remember right, it is his brother Jeb that has a Mexican wife, and they have three half-Mexican children. It's a little hard for President Bush to put up a fence to keep "family" out. Truth is, George Bush likes Mexicans.

Speaking of borders, it is not as much the Mexican border I am worrying about right now, although that's a problem. It's the border with Iran.

I was reading an article by David Frum today. He's a Canadian writer who used to write speeches for President Bush. He came up with phrase, 'axis of evil'.

David was writing about insurgencies, which is a big problem in Iraq right now. Well, as you probably know, there are an awful lot of Iranians in Iraq right now, trying to kill American soldiers.

Iranians came in because America did not think it had to secure the border with Iran. Big mistake.

Iranians came into Iraq after the Americans invaded. Then they stayed, organized, and are still there, trying to kill Americans.

So why did this happen? How did the border get overlooked?

One thing about a war, you have to understand the mind of the enemy, how he thinks, how he views the war. America is still getting up to speed on this.

For instance, remember when President Bush was on TV, on the deck of an aircraft carriers, with a big sign behind him, saying "Mission Accomplished"?

Well, that turned out to be a big embarrassment because a couple of years later, the war is still dragging on. So what happened?

Well, America came in to Iraq, with all it's technology and amazing military might, blew away Saddam's military, with his tanks and airplanes and organized groups of soldiers, in a few weeks. It was amazing to watch.

So, after that, American leaders, including the President and top brass at the Pentagon, assumed they had "won" the war. Thus, the banner on the deck of the carrier.

To which I say, with the benefit of hindsight, 'Not so fast, Charley'.

It turned out the people in the Iraq Army had another plan. They obviously knew they were going to lose a direct, big technology, tank on tank war with the Americans. So they planned a different kind of war.

I'll bet in the time between the first American threats, and the time the Americans invaded, Saddam's top generals were busy getting ready for the war after the war.

In an insurgency war, you don't wear uniforms like a regular army. You wear civilian clothes. You blend into the local population, which makes detection of insurgents difficult.

Insurgents for loosely associated "teams" with fairly decentralized control. They prepare weapons caches and train for military tactics.

Just think about the old days, the pioneer days, when "settlers" were moving west in America. The Indians knew they were technologically inferior, and they couldn't win direct, large group confrontations with the Americans, so they avoided them.

Instead, they focussed on hit and run campaigns. Small, mobile groups of warriors moved through the terrain, looking for groups of "settlers" to pick off.

When they found them, they would usually ambush them. The Indians had the advantage of knowing every knook and cranny of the terrain. They would sometimes wait till the settlers were either asleep, on a lit, full moon night, or asleep, to ambush them.

So I guess what I am saying is in any military confrontation, you use your stengths, and try to avoid the enemy's strengths.

That's what the insurgents are doing in Iraq. That's why they are hard to track down.

As Terrance pointed out on this blog, Americans fighting for independence against the British in 1775 used very similar tactics as the insurgents are using in Iraq. That was because the British had a larger, more technologically advanced army.

So when I look back on that "Mission Accomplished" moment, I think, American leaders have been used to thinking of war in certain ways. George W. Bush's dad, George the first, as I call him, flew bombing missions over Germany in WWII.

In that war, you had large, centrally controlled armies with high levels of technology. In that sort of war, when one side wins, the other side generally lays down it's arms fairly quickly.

That was a very different kind of war than this one. America's leaders were assuming that once they defeated Saddam's military, the war would be over. Not so fast.

For one thing, as I have noted, there was obviously an insurgency carefully planned before the Americans even showed up. There was no such planned insurgency in Germany.

Now, why would someone plan an insurgency? Well, for several reasons. Because they are smart, vicious, and very good soldiers. Because insurgencies play to their military stengths. Also because insurgencies can take a long time to control. Most insurgencies worldwide take between 8-10 years to control.

Why is this important? The enemy is smart. He knows that Americans often don't like long fights. Sometimes they give up and go home. Look what happened in Vietnam. Many elderly Vietnamese leaders lately have said America was actually winning the war, but they lacked the stomach for it and went home instead. Iraqi insurgents know the media in the West is generally liberal, generally against the war. They know if they can put enough carnage on TV screens each night, the American public will get sick of it, and ask for a retreat. Iraqi insurgents know they can play the American media like a fiddle, and gullible liberals will play along with it. The killings in Iraq are mostly for the TV screen.

War is fought in many ways. Yes, it is fought on TV as much as anything because the images on TV have an impact on public perceptions about the war.

Think about something. The average American watches 4 hours of TV a day. It is the source of a lot of their news, about everything. It is the nature of TV that the only thing that usually gets on TV is bad news. That's why you don't see all the good news on TV. The liberal media is against the war, and TV people have decided the only thing of significance that is worth reporting is when people kill each other. Although that is a shallow, biased and completely distorted version of reality, it is the only version most people see.

So Henry and Margaret, average Americans, are watching the nightly news at home in Witchita, and the only news they get about the war is bad news, so naturally they assume things are going badly. They don't realized they are being played for suckers by the liberal media, and their accomplices, the Iraqi insurgents. So, they possibly turn against the war.

We'll see in ten days, I guess.

Getting back to the Iranian border for a minute, and how people think about war. This war has a religious part to it that is hard for Americans to understand. Killing people on the basis of their religion is foreign to American thinking.

If you look back on European history, of course, killing on the basis of religion was a big part of European history. There were lots and lots of wars, over many centuries, between Christians and Muslims, based on religious conflict. Then, after the Protestant Reformation, for centuries there were lots and lots of conflicts between European groups, based on religious conflict. However, thankfully, that sort of nonsense is not around much anymore in European based cultures. We have evolved beyond that.

The Muslims have not.

It is still very much part of their culture. Obviously, American leaders did not understand that before the invasion. Otherwise they would have secured the border with Iran.

For you see, from the point of view of many in Iran, this war was an invasion from people they consider inferior to them, namely us, invading all of Islam. Although we in the West generally do not think of war in religious terms, they do.

-- October 28, 2006 2:40 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

So a couple final comments on my last post. Summing up: This is a very different kind of war than European-based societies are used to. It has a large, fanatical religious element, with a visceral, bigotted hatred toward us that Americans have a hard time understanding.

They better start because I don't think this sort of war is going away soon. That's why the borders between Iran and Iraq meant nothing to these people. They don't think in terms of nation-states, like we do.

Their primary identity is religious. That means, if we attack Muslim in country A, Muslims in countries B, C, D, E, and so on feel it is their obligation to come to country A, or the United States, and kill us. That's the reality that has to be dealt with, first starting with sealing the border of any country America invades.

Also,, this war has a large insurgency.

There will be many lessons drawn from this war. I don't think America will be caught flat footed again. America will likely instigate wars much quicker in the future, giving the other side much less time to plan insurgencies.

They will start to seal borders right away. They will come expecting an insurgency. They will plan for it. I read somewhere that the military has already set up a counter-insurgency school and is training it's officers in it's techniques.

They may restrict media access, because a lot of media coverage is just shooting themselves in the foot. They will likely start to train a lot more Americans in Arabic.

They will likely set up academic think tanks, in order to systematically study the Arab world more closely, so they fully understand the implications of any of their actions.

Right now, Arab studies are not a big item on American university campuses. But the reality is, Arabs know an awful lot more about Americans, than the other way around. That has to change, if America wants to win.

I'm sure this is not even barely the tip of the iceberg, in terms of lessons learned, and actions taken.

I have great confidence in American leadership, both civilian and military. The lessons of this war will be sifted through and absorbed for decades.

The leaders of America, I believe, will learn very quickly what it takes to defeat Islamic radicals.

My expectation, though, is that Iraq is just the first war in what is likely to be at least a century-long series of conflicts between America and the Muslim world.

That's why learning the lessons of this war is important. It'll come in handy in the future, I suspect.

In the short term, I expect to make a lot of coin trading in my dinars. I'm looking forward to the pig roast. I always like fresh pineapple with pork.

-- October 28, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

Busy today.. appreciated your thoughts, esp on President Bush, thanks.
But I thought I should note, I spoke the truth in love, not distain.
I have the greatest respect for Carl, and he knows it.

Tim Bitts;

Although you and Carole discussed President Bush's policies (ie Mexico, Iran borders),
neither of you attacked him as a person or disrespected him, which is a mature attitude I appreciate.
I agree with your assessment:

I have great confidence in American leadership, both civilian and military. The lessons of this war will be sifted through and absorbed for decades.

The leaders of America, I believe, will learn very quickly what it takes to defeat Islamic radicals.

As President Bush says often, they adjust their tactics, and America adjusts hers..

He also said in his last speech that there was not one battle the American and Coalition forces have lost.

Even though that is deprecated, it should be noted and appreciated. The troops are doing their job well.

We just need to adjust strategy to be even better..

Oh, Carole, one last note, you are right.
Saddam's troops just pulled back for another kind of war.. and in past wars, ie WW2, the win happened when you killed the leader of the other side.. in this case Saddam (in WW2 it ended with Hitler's death). I feel that should happen ASAP, as it still is good strategy that will contribute greatly to winning the war... a strong reason for this is because I note he is directing his troops even from behind a microphone while on trial, or as he dictates his policies to be implemented by his followers onto paper which then is released by his lawyers.

Sara.

-- October 28, 2006 3:34 PM ∞

---

Shajee wrote:

Is it true New Iraqi Dinar is not readily available in Market?
If it is true NID will appreciate.

-- October 28, 2006 4:41 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

To All:

I make a nomination---Tim Bitts for President!!!

And for the next 2 years, Pres. Bush TOP Advisor.

DO you know how much better we would all sleep??

But, Tim you truly can't be serious that Pres. Bush would allow the US to be invaded and pushed around by the Mexican govt. regarding our borders because he has a sister-in-law and nephews that are Mexican.

I like Mexicans too. On fact I love alot of them!!!And what I love most about them is that they are here legally and uphold the law of the land and have a great respect for this country.

By the way, they fear and regret what has happened to this country because of poor to no border control.

Your answer is not an answer!

Pleeeeez try again! I'm waiting....

You are so right about the Iraq invasion. I remember being so frustrated at our unending announcement to Iraq and the world of our planned attack.

I used to argue-- one of the elements of was ( winning) is "surprise". wHAT WERE WE THINKING????

It is that sort of activity that lends one to thinking it is some sort of a conspiracy looming.

Forgive me if I am a bit skittish right now, I have been reading about the Illuminati and the Trilateral commision as well as the COuncil of Foreign Affairs.

It makes even the most naieve, alittle skittish and a whole lot paranoid.

Come on now, give me a "real" take onthe border issues...:}

-- October 28, 2006 5:40 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

To All:

I make a nomination---Tim Bitts for President!!!

And for the next 2 years, Pres. Bush TOP Advisor.

DO you know how much better we would all sleep??

But, Tim you truly can't be serious that Pres. Bush would allow the US to be invaded and pushed around by the Mexican govt. regarding our borders because he has a sister-in-law and nephews that are Mexican.

I like Mexicans too. On fact I love alot of them!!!And what I love most about them is that they are here legally and uphold the law of the land and have a great respect for this country.

By the way, they fear and regret what has happened to this country because of poor to no border control.

Your answer is not an answer!

Pleeeeez try again! I'm waiting....

You are so right about the Iraq invasion. I remember being so frustrated at our unending announcement to Iraq and the world of our planned attack.

I used to argue-- one of the elements of was ( winning) is "surprise". wHAT WERE WE THINKING????

It is that sort of activity that lends one to thinking it is some sort of a conspiracy looming.

Forgive me if I am a bit skittish right now, I have been reading about the Illuminati and the Trilateral commision as well as the COuncil of Foreign Affairs.

It makes even the most naieve, alittle skittish and a whole lot paranoid.

Come on now, give me a "real" take onthe border issues...:}

-- October 28, 2006 5:41 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

I never got the sense that your posting was directed to Carl or anyone in particular.

Sorry if you thought that was what I meant. I was speaking in generalities as to commenting about ungodly behavior, etc....

-- October 28, 2006 5:46 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole:
I pick at ya with a good heart....if I did not like ya....you would definitely know it...I believe Sara can back me up on that...I respect and honor your belief system for that is the system or path that appears to be true to you...
I would not discourage or encourage you to go either way...as for each has to pick his own path back to God....if they believe in God....

Sara and I have known and talked many times over the phone about christianity, and other concepts of faith...we do this so the other bloggers on the board will not have to be a part of those discussions....I respect Sara for who she is and what she believes...I don't always agree with Sara and that she definitely knows...both from my post on the board and our off the board conversations..... but she and I have never intentionally shown disrepect to each others beliefs and views on any thing...have we pissed each other off...yes...but I attempt to understand her point of view......she makes no appolizes to anyone for how she thinks...and neither should you, or anyone else on this board....and I definitely will not...

That is the way it should be for all bloggers on this board...when someone is rude deliberately the members of this board should not stand for it and come to the defense of the one who was personally attacked....

For your information, if you have not figured it out, I am not a christian, and do not want to be...if you wanted to put me in a category I would probably fit somewhere between diest and Wiccan...for that is the paths that appear to be true to me...
To show distaint or talk down to someone such as they are blind, unlearned, or have some learning disability so they cannot understand christian scripture shows unbridled arrogance, and is one of the weaknesses of christian followers.

I for myself grew up in a devoutly christian family, and was exposed to all parts of the bible, along with fire and brimstone preachers. In my view christianity operates mainly off of fear.

I fully understood everything they were saying...and most of it sounded like it came from the same material of gullivers travels. But then again that is my point of view. No one elses....I am very aware you and sara give a lot more credibility to the writers that I do...
But then again that is my path...just don't be so condesinding for it does not become anyone.

-- October 28, 2006 6:07 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

I so totally understand what you are saying, and I am sorry if my analogies offended you.

My point of references is almost always scriptural, for I believe that many will refer to experience as a bases for faith
( meaning "feelings").

Feelings change and experiences change and vary, and to rest our faith on feelings and faith is to put ourselves on a merry-go -round.

I think you are unique!!You admit you are not a Christian. Good for you!! You have no pretenses or faces to save!!

I wished I could have been like you and I wish many others were like you.

The masses of Americans, especially, claim to be Christians, and in the same breath, denounce the bible, Jesus as the Son of God, etc.....

You can not know how deeply I respect you for knowing and expressing your own heart on the matter.

You are like an empty vessel. And if you ever do seek God, and want to really know Him, He won't have a whole bunch of garbage to clean out before you can truly hear Him.

It is a life long journey that we are all on, and I get the sense that you are well on your way.....blessings to you in the pursuit of Truth.

Carole

-- October 28, 2006 7:14 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

Correction:

....to rest our faith on feelings and EXPERIENCES.....

-- October 28, 2006 7:19 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

And so Carole and Sara, How do I get this Holy Ghost that you are referring to? I know that when Paul went through Ephesus he came across 12 brethern and asked them if they received the Holy Ghost since they believed?

-- October 28, 2006 8:22 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Reader: This bit is a little off topic, about Mexico.

Carole asked a question.

Carole, I am a Canadian. I live in the Great White North. I have been a few times to your country, mostly Vegas (three times) and Hawaii (three times), Washington State twice, North Dakota once. So I don't really know your country very well at all.

I have spent more time in Africa, or Europe.

The closest I get to anything Mexican is a Taco Bell Restaurant once a year. I'm sorry if I'm coming off sounding a bit flippant, I wish I knew more about the issue of illegal immigration, but to be honest, I only started hearing about the problem of too much illegal immigration from Mexico to the States a year or two ago on the news.

This is a different world up here. We have a lot of immigrants up here, just not Mexican. Other than a few trips to the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico (Cosamol) for some scuba trips, the only Mexican I have ever met was at a local Mexican restaurant five years ago.

I could only speculate the Republicans are going after the Mexican American vote, so they don't want to aggravate that community. I do know that the Mexican government has a minister for Mexicans in the United States, so it's obvious Mexicans won't integrate they way past waves of immigrants have. Kinda hard, when the "old country" is right next door, and you speak Spanish.

I can make a couple of indirect points, from a Canadian perspective, though.

We have a situation reasonably similar to the Mexican problem, here in Canada. We have a very large French speaking population, in Quebec. They have been in Quebec since the 1500s. We have had two votes in Canada, where Quebecers had to decide whether or not they wanted to leave and form their own country.

They decided to stay, by very small margins twice, and they have been using this to get what they want and threatening to break up the country for over thirty years. Very unpleasant. English is now a second class language in Quebec.

I won't go into a lot of detail, although I could, but let me just say it is a royal, unending pain in the you know where, for the rest of us, who speak English. If you want to know what it was like, imagine you have a tooth ache. You are strapped to a dental chair. The root canal lasts thirty years!

My advice to Americans is to take a very hard line on this language issue. It can tear a country apart. Make English the official language everywhere. Don't allow Spanish speaking, except at home. The Mexican population is growing very quickly, and it will be a huge problem down the road, if not handled right.

I have heard liberals say, 'they will fit in with everyone...we are a land of immigrants...yada yada...", but I think this is nonsense.

Why? Integrating immigrants is much harder now, than any time in American history. Historically, the old country was a long ways away. For most of American history, technology had not developed to the point where a person could keep so much in touch with where they came from.

When my ancestors came to Western Canada, from Europe, in the late 1800s, they first had a long and slow and nasty trip across Europe. Then sitting in a boat, in steerage of a dirty ocean going rat-trap they used to haul immigrants to the New World. Then, there was a single rail line out from Montreal. It took over a week to get to the prairies. It was a very unpleasant trip.

Then, stepping out on the prairies, they loaded up a Red River Ox Cart, and headed for a homestead, on foot for a hundred miles, and built a primative hut made out of prairie sod, and tried to survive the brutal Canadian winter.

Back then, most people were so poor they could only afford one trip like that in their lifetime. So they stayed.

So they immigrated, stayed in their communities, and learned to fit in with other groups, and formed a new culture. I think this was the basic pattern of most immigrant groups. That's how America was made in the first place.

I'm not sure that pattern still holds today. Today, people have more options. They are more mobile.

Travel is much cheaper and easier. Technology, like TVs and telephones allows them to keep in touch with, and function in, their old culture, in a way my ancestors could not. That means slower integration.

I know immigrants to Canada from India and China. They visit the old country once every year or two. They listen to Hindi or Mandarin TV and movies right here in Canada. They speak their native language when they are with friends. Their integration into Canada will be very slow.

Even today, many of them, after twenty years in Canada, talk about "Canadians", meaning white people.

These people are accepted by Canadians but their identities as primarily Canadian is not all that strong. When you live in a multi-cultural society, which accepts multiple identities, you always run the risk that the primary identity will become watered down, when it is competing with other identities.

That's not a road I would recommend, but that's the way our societies have decided to go.

Mexicans are the same as immigrants in Canada. If they can live and be educated in their own language, why integrate? They won't unless they need to, believe me.

Mexico is right next door. They can visit it often. They can watch movies in their own language. They can keep to their own ethnic group, if they want. If they are allowed education in Spanish, or Spanish is allowed in the workplace, then under these conditions, integration will be much slower.

In a hundred years or two, when the Spanish population outnumbers the rest of you, some Mexicans will want their own country, or having Spanish equal to English. Believe me, you don't want to go down that road. Canadians are already living through that experience, and it is not good.

You remember your American history? The bottom one quarter of your country belonged to Mexico at one time. If America keeps letting the Mexicans live in Spanish, without successful integration, the Mexicans will want that quarter back some day.

If anyone says, "that's absurd", well, that bottom quarter was Mexican a while back, wasn't it? Read your own history. What happened? If anyone reading this thinks land ownership is permanent in North America, go find an Indian reservation, and talk to a Native American elder about that concept.

As to President Bush, for whatever reason, this issue doesn't seem to resonate with him. He'll be out of office in a couple of years. I don't think he is serious about fixing the border.

If Americans are serious about solving this problem, they had better elect a president who understands this issue, and is passionate about it.

I appreciate your offer to run for office, but your constitutions says a person has to be 35 years old, and born in the U.S. to run. I only meet the age requirement.

Well, this one-time hopeful, potential American president now has to go clean the clumps out the cat litter and take out the garbage! No Air Force One for this dude!

-- October 28, 2006 9:02 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Willie,

I am not sure if your reference to Paul at Ephesus is what you are really asking. The event you are talking about is where Paul came across believers
( brethren). When the Holy Spirit was first introduced to believers at pentacost, they were given signs to identify themselves to eachother as being filled with the Holy Spirit. Is this what you are refering to?

Otherwise, to a non-believer, asking about the HOly Spirit, please refer to the Gospel of John, Chapter 3 verses 1-21, and chapter 14
verses 15-21, and verse 26.

Hope this helps.

Sara may point out some different references, as there are many more...

-- October 28, 2006 9:05 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Oh my gosh!!!You are terrific!!!

Now I want to move to Canada and live right next door to you!!! So you could entertain me with your intelligence, wit, humor and charm.

Arnold Schwarz..... is hopeful of changing the law so he could be pres. someday. If he succeeds you may be able to be more than a hopeful, too.

I'll be your campaign manager... how about it??

You are very astute and accurate about immigration and what it has become.

The many facets of the problem can not even begin to be addressed unless the basics are instituted, like seal the borders.

To me, it is the biggest challenge, threat, or whatever you wish to call it to the survival of the US as we know it, or as it was meant to be.

Have you read Pat Buchanan's book State of Emergency..?
I highly recommend it.

How much do houses go for on your block? :}

-- October 28, 2006 9:24 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Oh my gosh!!!You are terrific!!!

Now I want to move to Canada and live right next door to you!!! So you could entertain me with your intelligence, wit, humor and charm.

Arnold Schwarz..... is hopeful of changing the law so he could be pres. someday. If he succeeds you may be able to be more than a hopeful, too.

I'll be your campaign manager... how about it??

You are very astute and accurate about immigration and what it has become.

The many facets of the problem can not even begin to be addressed unless the basics are instituted, like seal the borders.

To me, it is the biggest challenge, threat, or whatever you wish to call it to the survival of the US as we know it, or as it was meant to be.

Have you read Pat Buchanan's book State of Emergency..?
I highly recommend it.

How much do houses go for on your block? :}

-- October 28, 2006 9:26 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Carole, I want this Holy Ghost your talking about. What must I do? Does anyone out there know how do I get it? Peter said "I knew they received the Holy Ghost because I "heard" them speak in other tongues. Sarah, where are you?

-- October 28, 2006 9:38 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

If they're "poised" to pass the HCL does this equate to "soon"? I think it does!

I suspect a lot of deals are being worked out behind closed doors right now....good for the US and good for the Dinar.

If they can get their act together and divide the oil evenly it might even help the peace efforts.

=====================================================================================
Iraq Taps Foreign Companies
To Double Production

BEIJING, Oct. 28--Iraq will invite China National Petroleum Corp. and other overseas companies to invest in oilfields to double daily production to 6 million barrels by 2012, Bloomberg quoted Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani as saying.
ÒWe need foreign partners to help develop new fields,Ó al- Shahristani said at a press conference in Beijing on Saturday. ÒIraq will significantly increase its oil production in the next few years and China will significantly raise its imports. That's why the two countries will need to work closely together.Ó
Iraq will increase its oil production to 3.5 million barrels a day by next year, with the capacity to export 2.4 million barrels a day, al-Shahristani said. The increased oil output will not be curtailed by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or OPEC, because Iraq has been producing less than its quota for many years, he said.
ÒOur friends at OPEC understand Iraq needs to produce more oil quickly,Ó he said. ÒThe general position is to allow Iraq to produce as much oil as quickly as possible.Ó
China imports about 40 percent of its oil. The world's fastest-growing major economy may consume 7 million barrels of oil a day this year, 6.4 percent more than in 2005, according to an October forecast by the International Energy Agency.
The Asian nation needs more fuel to run power plants and feed its industries, prompting Chinese oil companies to look abroad for fields. Demand for oil in the world's fourth-largest economy has almost doubled in a decade, contributing to record prices.
The Iraqi parliament is poised to pass a law to regulate the country's oil and gas industry. All contracts signed during and after the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime will have to be renegotiated under the terms of the new legislation, al- Shahristani said today.
At stake are an estimated $700 million of agreements signed in 2000 that gave China National Petroleum the right to develop the Al-Ahdab and Al-Qorna oil fields in southern Iraq.
ÒA committee has been convened to discuss this and they will commence work next monthÓ to renegotiate the terms of the contract to meet the requirements of the new law, al-Shahristani said today.
Iraq Taps Foreign Companies
To Double Production

BEIJING, Oct. 28--Iraq will invite China National Petroleum Corp. and other overseas companies to invest in oilfields to double daily production to 6 million barrels by 2012, Bloomberg quoted Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani as saying.
ÒWe need foreign partners to help develop new fields,Ó al- Shahristani said at a press conference in Beijing on Saturday. ÒIraq will significantly increase its oil production in the next few years and China will significantly raise its imports. That's why the two countries will need to work closely together.Ó
Iraq will increase its oil production to 3.5 million barrels a day by next year, with the capacity to export 2.4 million barrels a day, al-Shahristani said. The increased oil output will not be curtailed by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or OPEC, because Iraq has been producing less than its quota for many years, he said.
ÒOur friends at OPEC understand Iraq needs to produce more oil quickly,Ó he said. ÒThe general position is to allow Iraq to produce as much oil as quickly as possible.Ó
China imports about 40 percent of its oil. The world's fastest-growing major economy may consume 7 million barrels of oil a day this year, 6.4 percent more than in 2005, according to an October forecast by the International Energy Agency.
The Asian nation needs more fuel to run power plants and feed its industries, prompting Chinese oil companies to look abroad for fields. Demand for oil in the world's fourth-largest economy has almost doubled in a decade, contributing to record prices.
The Iraqi parliament is poised to pass a law to regulate the country's oil and gas industry. All contracts signed during and after the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime will have to be renegotiated under the terms of the new legislation, al- Shahristani said today.
At stake are an estimated $700 million of agreements signed in 2000 that gave China National Petroleum the right to develop the Al-Ahdab and Al-Qorna oil fields in southern Iraq.
ÒA committee has been convened to discuss this and they will commence work next monthÓ to renegotiate the terms of the contract to meet the requirements of the new law, al-Shahristani said today.

http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2693/html/ieconomy.htm#s183537

-- October 28, 2006 10:17 PM ∞

---

hoo wrote:

hey willie,

read the book of mormon. then go to Moroni chapter 10 verse 4. there is your answer. read 2 nephi 31 verse 12.

-- October 28, 2006 10:21 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, thanks for your compliments.

I don't know why broken borders are so hard for some people to understand.......Here's a story for you.........

Last summer, the neigbour's fence broke, and his dog wandered into my yard, and into my house. When my wife came out of the bathroom, after a shower, and suddenly came across the dog, coming around the corner, and when she screamed, I don't know who was more scared, me, who heard it from the basement, the dog, who pissed on the kitchen floor, or my wife, dressed in a housecoat and with a towel on her head, screaming like Rosemary's baby had just walked into the room.......broken borders, aren't they great?

I like Pat Buchanan. I watch him on the Maclauglin Report sometimes. I remember it was reported on our media when he visited Canada couple of times, so I'm sure he is familiar with everything I said about the Canadian situation. I have heard him comment on Mexican immigration on TV. I think he is on the right track. No, I haven't read his book.

I live in an area in the middle of a huge oil boom. My house was worth 130 thousand four years ago. Then the oil boom hit. Now it's worth 400 thousand. From this, I've seen first hand the power of oil, to generate money. It's incredible.

Hang on to those dinars.

I'm off on a business trip for a few days.

-- October 28, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim,

Whatever it is that you do for a living, if it is not stand up comedy, making millions of dollars, you have short-changed yourself--and the rest of the world!!

Have a safe trip, and read Pat's book--I think it will have a profound effect on you.

Carole

-- October 29, 2006 1:35 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Willie,

My place here is not to lead anyone to a conversion.

I have pointed you in the right direction with the scriptures that would answer your question.

If you are having trouble understanding them, I would suggest finding a Bible teaching and preaching church. Maybe you could attend one tomorrow and ask to speak to a pastor or church leader. It will be more personal and more meaningful to you.

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him...Hebrews chapter 11, verse 6.

-- October 29, 2006 1:50 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole:

I have come to believe that christians really don't have a clue when they are condescending, as you have demostrated...
Allow me for the moment to mirror back at you...

Carole you must really feel deeply empty because you do not follow the diest and wiccan path...

Carole but if you ever decide to seek the true god and get out of that christian way of thinking god won't have so much garbage to get out ya

Carole but I am sure that if you keep seeking, and you really want to know the "REAL GOD" just call upon mine...

Carole I pray that one day you will truly hear the ONE AND ONLY REAL DIE IN THE WOOL GOD...not the one those other ignorant, illiterate, can't chew and walk at the same time christians follow.....just ask me...I have the REAL GOD on my side....and he is going to kick ass...because he loves those other ungrateful christian pricks so much...he is going to torture them for eternity with a fire so hot, they flesh will melt like butter...yes sir! I have the only true loving god in my corner...thats my little secret...so as soon as you learn that you are being mislead by the evil ones you will know that you are strutting down the WRONG PATH....

But as a good Wiccan and Diest I pray that you find the Real GOD in the near future for I am sure you are truly searching for that path...

Do sound condescending to you? Do I sound like I think you are a idiot for your path? Do I sound like you are one misguided confused soul? Do I sound like I am talking to you like a child?

Well! I was...because that is how you sound to others...

Why don't you simply say...my path is christianity because it appears to be true to me....the Bible I believe in for it speaks to me in the way that enlightens my soul.... I will not quote scripture to you, because it appears to not be your path ....if you decide to one day to look at my path, I welcome you...I also wish you well on your path and may we meet sometime and discuss the different routes which have let us both back to GOD...

By the way...I do know GOD VERY WELL AND FEEL CLOSER THAN I EVER DID WITH CHRISTIANITY so don't patrionize me and my path..its not becoming to christians...

-- October 29, 2006 7:31 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

I never called you illiterate or ignorant.

Okay, let me see if I can make you understand where I am coming from, because so far, I don't think you have been "hearing" me. Listening maybe,but not hearing.

After 2 years of a dynamic research of the Bible, I chose to accept it as the innerant, infallible Word of God.( And that is what it claims to be also)

In the process of doing that, I had a big decision to make.

To either proclaim Christ as a derelict, liar, evil, and the devil himself---or belieive who He claims HE really is--the incarnate God.
I chose to believe who He says He is and accept His shed blood for my sins and put my trust in HIs redemptive powers.

From that point, I have studied the scriptures, in my own feeble way to try to lead a life that is reflective of those teachings. Not to be some big shot or know it all, but to serve the Master, who deserves to be served.

It is not an easy life by any means. Jesus promised that "there will be those who will hate and persecute you, because they hate and have persecuted me".

Carl, I litterally hate religion. For religion is mans attempt to "do or Be" something that gives to God. I spent 27 years devoted to a RELIGION.

Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP based on what God has done for us....end of story...

I am sorry that your childhood left such a bad taste for you. But childhoods, good or bad, helpful or harmful has no bearing on our relationship with Christ. No one is born a Christian. No one can give Christ to another. It is a personal choice to be made, one heart and mind at a time. One personal, intentional decision at a time.....or not.

My God does not take pleasure in ,kicking ass, as you call it. He proved HIs unfailling love, by paying for our sins and transgressions against the Almighty, with His life.

I don't think it is that you don't get it...I just think you don't accept or want it.

So be it, you are not the first or the last. And your decision is just that...your decision. I respect that. Can you accept that, without getting so hostile?

I have simply shared with you what I believe is Truth. Why would I do anything else? Would you rather I share with you what I beleive is false and misleading?

I was just thinking of something...

Have you ever killed men, women and children because they were Christians? Probably not..

Well, Paul did. Hundreds of them. And took great pleasure and pride indoing so.

Have you ever asked yourself, what in the world happened to him that his mind and heart changed, to the point of being probably the greatest proclaimer of Christ and scriptures, in history and ultimately giving his own life for the faith?

It was those kinds of questions that I had to answer for myself some 40 years ago.

I am sure you are not interested, but you have no idea what a skeptic and fighter I was against everything that pointed to the Cross.

You might enjoy a book called
"Evidence that Demands a Verdict", by Josh Mc Dowell.

Sara has appropriately answered you with her reference to the scripture. "there is a way that seems RIGHT to man, but the end thereof is death
( spiritual death).

I truly don't know how to make you feel better. Maybe it would be best to drop the subject.

One thing we definitely have as a mutual thought is to look forward to WTDH!!

On that subject we surely have unity! We will both either win or lose!! :}

-- October 29, 2006 9:51 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

SOme thoughts on the subject of "the past".

I have come to realize that the past is just that ...the past. No one can rewrite their hisotry.

To reflect and become introspective to our past, is to give it too much POWER and CONTROL over our present and future.

If our past was good and enriching, and we live on those pasts, we become arrogant and complacent. We mistakably think that all things must turn out good--it is owed to us.

If we reflect on a bad past, it somehow gives us license and excuses to make poor decsions going forward.
Like..."I'm an alcoholic because my father beat me..."

Our pasts should provide us with a stepping stone for our future, not a stumbling block.

These are hard lessons I have learned in life, so I share with you out of that....and that only. No judging...just sharing from my heart.

-- October 29, 2006 10:20 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole/Carl;

I enjoyed and learned from your viewpoint on "the past".. wise words to think through. :)

Carl and I have discussed Christianity and the deist/wiccan viewpoint (which has some truth in it, to be sure). But he knows that I, like you, accept Christianity and the Bible as the truth. The final arbiter of truth, after all, is not you or I.. or Carl.. but God Himself. We only differ from his view because you and I believe that the will of God has been revealed in the Bible and is revealed there as the infallible and unchangable truth. :)

I think I understand how it could come across as condescending or arrogant, but it is more like sharing a bag of candy with other kids, you just find it so totally interesting to discover truth, you don't think of how others perceive it who might disagree with the source you are quoting as truth (the Bible). I read a saying recently that said: "All of our lives we are urged to tell the truth, and then we discover that no one wants to hear it." which I thought funny because it is also very true when the Truth you are sharing is the truths in the Bible. Also: "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." It does take a degree of courage to present that which you know others reject as untrue and hate you for saying. But the problem isn't really you or I, it is the rejection of what we are saying, which, if we are careful, is nothing more than the Bible and the truth it contains.

And I can understand the great difficulty in accepting the teaching of hell. It was the most difficult teaching for me to accept as well, after I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I wondered, "How can God be so mean? And eternal punishment.. doesn't someone get the chance to say sorry after they die?" It didn't seem fair. But when I signed on to accept Jesus Christ and His teachings, I believed His words and teachings to be the Truth - as it proclaims itself to be - and so I took the time to learn more about this truth, which I found to be logical.

What I learned can be illustrated like this.. suppose you buy a 20 year old farm which comes with a barn - if you choose to make the barn into a guest cottage or to give it to the local firehouse to use to practice on for firefighting, that is your choice. No one is going to stop you and say, "What are you doing, burning that 20 year old barn to the ground? Are you nuts? You HAVE TO make it into a guest cottage!!" The reason they don't do that, of course, is because you OWN the barn and can do what you wish to with what is your own property.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

This says all souls of mankind belong to God, just like the barn. Now, anyone can DENY that truth, just like denying the force of gravity. However, that won't change it one bit. When they die, they are no longer under their own judgement but come into God's:

Heb 9:27 ... it is appointed to men to die once, but after this the judgment:

Sooo.. God owns all souls, and He judges them, whether they like it or not. And if He chooses to send some to hell, who will stop His Omnipotent (all powerful) hand from doing this - puny man?

Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

This says that God is like a potter and can make one vessel for destruction (hell) and another for glory (heaven) as He wills to do. It comes down to respect again.. and that "fear Him who, after death, can throw body and soul into hell" scripture which I quoted before. God has the ABILITY to do this to us, and to ignore it is plain foolhardy in my opinion. He won't stop throwing someone in hell because of their protests. It is like the governmental power to come and arrest a person, they do have that power and ability and the force to do it even if the person doesn't want to be under arrest. In the same way, all that matters is if God has this power and ability and force to do it. If he doesn't no big deal to us Christians.. as Carl said, we are just kept in line by a false fear. (Remember that real fears do serve good and useful purposes, keeping us from harm - such as a healthy fear of fire so we don't touch a hot oven, or a fear of being run over so that we look both ways before we cross the street, or fear of being nuked out of existence which might provoke a country to an act of war, etc. It would just be like those who have an irrational fear of heights or being in enclosed places - a fear of something which won't come to pass.) However, if God DOES have that power and ability and force to send people to hell if He wishes to as the Bible says He has, that scenerio has horrendous consequences on our souls and those who reject God (a nuclear bomb explosion doesn't come near to the terror of eternity in hell, in my opinion.) And remember, in the Bible, it says He DOES have that power (which, if I were headed toward hell, I would not be pleased to hear, anymore than I would like to hear the knock on the door by an officer with a warrant for my arrest.)

Therefore, it is not a small thing to reject and scorn God's gift of going to heaven - it is to choose by that rejection an eternity in hell, whether the person doing so realizes it or not - because their soul belongs to GOD, He owns them, and He will one day use His power to send them to hell (after death the judgement) for that rejection. And who then can say, "You are not JUST to send me to hell for my sins! It is not right!" when all men are sinful and wicked before Him?

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

ALL mankind will stand before God, their mouths stopped from protesting and seeing plainly their guilt against the commands of God. They will see, even in their own conscience, that they have violated their own inner principles and so become guilty before God for their sins. And then, who will deliver them from the certain punishment and eternal death God decrees for all sin against His eternal person? And then where will their protesting be that God is unfair or unjust if He chooses to send them to that place? Can they stop the hand of Almighty God? Jesus said of that day and those who reject Him:

Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth...

It is true:

Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

In my opinion, the risk is too great to take. Rather than hoping God is not as He proclaims Himself to be in the Bible (rejecting the Bible and that God thinks this way or has this power over our souls as He says He does - which can be seen as the real irrational act - like ignoring there is a warrant out for your arrest or the knock of the officer on the door)... and since our consciences attest He must be righteous to be God, I think it wiser to make sure that you personally have a place of mercy on the day you acknowledge your guilt before God - through accepting Jesus Christ and His death and payment to God for your sins, in your place.

Sara.

-- October 29, 2006 12:33 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

I just made the mistake of stopping on CNN while channel surfing

They found a disgruntled Iraqi woman to tell us that Iraq was absolutely better under Saddam.

Excuse me while I puke

Wonder how much they paid her?

We cannot even imagine what terror Saddam brought to his people. Saddam's sons took girls off the street, raped them then often killed them. One had an appetite for school girls and would call the high school to have one sent over to him. They would comply. Image your local HS sending a school girl to the White House for sexual sport. Iraqi father's were scared to let their daughters out.

It makes me angry to have been over there and talked to Iraqis about how it was and then turn on CNN and see fraud and lies.

I, like all, can see that the sectarian violence is bad but for CNN to suggest that Saddam's terror was better is to be guilty of the same thing that Ted Turner once accused Christains of - having a soft brain.

I guess if I were a visitor just come to this planet and tuned into CNN then I might conclude something outlandish like maybe there was an election soon!!!!!!

-- October 29, 2006 2:05 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,
So eloquently put and astutely referenced. Thank you.

I can't help but think of Proverbs 9:10...:"the fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom...and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. For through me your days will be many, and years will be added to your life. If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you: if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer."

As humans we all suffer from the terminal condition known as self -reliance. It tricks and decieves us so badly and we forget that God is the author of everything, and He gets to do it HIs way. And without our input or consultation!!! :}

I remember many years ago, when I was battling with all this spiritual stuff someone once said to me.." For heavens sake, Carole, let God be God...."

It sort of threw ice water on me. Ha ha!!

Well, I know that my intention was not to hurtor offend Carl or anyone on these spiritual issues, and I am sorry if I did.

Now ROger, on the other hand got my goat and a bit of my sarcasm and "wrath" too! :{

He warned me of what was to come if I took part in spiritual discussions, but I don't feel threatened or scared or anything....

I enjoy discussion and ,at times dissenting views, so long as they are not trying to kill the messenger.

Chris,

You are as funny as Tim! Enjoyed your comments about CNN. I din't watch them often, in fact the only thing I ever watch is Larry King. I have even written him and encouraged him to go to Fox News. I think it would be more of a "match" for him.

He is like an anomalie on CNN. I think he is the only one who I really don't think wants to see us lose the war.

-- October 29, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

I think I saw where you have personally talked to Laura and Carl. But have you ever personally talked to Roger?

If you have then great--my suspicions are unwarranted. If you haven't, and no one else has either...I very much suspect that he participates here under different names. I hope I am wrong.

Anxious to hear from you or anyone else on this.

Carole

-- October 29, 2006 3:20 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Sorry! Guys!

I really didn't mean to start a fire storm with the double barrel blast of scriptural dogma and who shot john here, etc;

Sara - Carole I really do not want to get into a religious tit for tat here...it bores everybody else, and frankly I don't think you didn't understood a word that I said....carole, I went back and looked at my last post and I don't believe I said my christian upbringing created a bad taste, I said some it the teachings reminded me of fairy tales...but that is my concept...not yours...its ok to believe what you want...you don't have to convince me that you feel that way... no you didn't say I was ignorant or illiterate and misguided...christians tend to infer it with theirr pious attitude...with your permission I will continue on my path if that is OK with you ladies...

If it makes you feel better....YOUR CONCEPT OF GOD IS BIGGER, BETTER, PRETTIER,SMARTER,KINDER, MEANER, MORE VICIOUS,MORE GIVING THAN ALL OF THE OTHER RELIGIONS OR BELIEFS IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE NOT JUST THIS EARTH...AND IF SOMEONE CAN'T ACCEPT THAT .....YOUR GOD IS GOING TO FRY THEIR BUTT, BUT OF COURSE IT IS DON'T WITH UNCONDITIONAL LOVE SO IT WILL HURT HIM MORE THAN IT DOES YOU...BESIDES AFTER ALL YOU MAKE BELIEVE A CRACKER IS HUMAN FLESH, GRAPE JUICE IS HUMAN BLOOD THEN YOU CHEW IT UP AND DRINK IT IN YOUR GOD'S NAME AND HONOR..AND THAT SATIFYS HIS EGO AND MAKES HIM LOOK MOST FONDLY ON HIS SUBJECTS..( and they say Wiccans follow a heathen religion?)

I don't know whether to wind my butt or scratch my watch with this conversation...so I had rather end it...

-- October 29, 2006 3:28 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

Thanks, Carole. :)
Carl has talked to Roger on the phone and I think also in person and I trust Carl on that point.

I wasn't here for the fireworks between you and Roger and have not had the time to backread for the month or so I was gone, so I really don't know what went on there.. or suspicions you may have had.

Sara.

-- October 29, 2006 3:31 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

You asked how to "get the Holy Spirit" and so this is my theological answer to your question.

According to the Bible, "getting the Holy Spirit" or receiving the Holy Spirit into you is the same as becoming a Christian or getting saved.
God commands all men everywhere to turn away (repent) of all their wrongdoings (sins) which they have committed
against Him and ask His forgiveness for their sins in prayer and make Him the center (Lord) of their lives.

So a prayer to receive the Holy Spirit would go something like this:

Heavenly Father, I come to You in Jesus' Name and I turn away from all that I have done which is displeasing to You.
I ask You to forgive me for ALL of my sins, including those known and unknown to me.
Cover all my sins with the blood Jesus shed on the cross.
I ask You, Lord Jesus, to come in to me - into my heart - and be my Lord and Savior.
I ask this all in Jesus' Name, Amen.

If you do this in sincerity, then you become a Christian, and the Spirit of God will come into your heart and dwell in you.
As Jesus said:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hears my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Having opened the door through repentance so that Jesus comes into a person's heart ("I will come in to him", above), that now makes you "in the spirit" according to the Bible (as opposed to being "in the flesh" which is the state of being before repentance and salvation occurs). Thus the Bible teaches:

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This says very simply that if the Spirit of God dwells in you (the door has been opened and Jesus has "come in" in the above Scripture), you are in the state called being "in the spirit" (the first three words bolded in the Scripture, above). And, if a person does not have the Spirit of Christ (is not saved, has not repented and asked Jesus to come into their heart and dwell in them) they are "none of his". So getting the Holy Spirit (becoming "in the spirit", above) is the exact same thing as becoming saved or accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ as set out in the Bible.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are dealt with at some length by different Christian denominations in different ways. It is like the question of war, where there are different Christian views of war.. or different views of eschatology (how the world will end, and the events surrounding it), or different views of baptism or the Sabbath day.. there are tons of different views held by equally saved Christians who agree on the basics of who Jesus is and what the gospel is. Stick with the basics, you won't go wrong there, and don't get into the difficult and almost esoteric teachings about the gifts of the Holy Spirit until you get grounded in basic Christian truth. Christianity is not a simple religion, and the facets of it will continue to challenge you for the rest of your life. Later on you can get into the gifts (such as tongues) and what they mean. For now, I suggest you just get the Holy Spirit (which is the Spirit of Christ - as Romans 8:9 above says - Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.)

In sum, very simply, the gospel leads you to the receive the truth about Christ (Jesus Christ is God Himself come in the flesh) and to repent to God, asking Him (Jesus) to be your Lord and Savior (to save you from the penalty due to your sins by His death on the cross as a substitute) and doing so opens the door for Jesus to come in to you and then you have the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. (Note the verse above says: "you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.") This is how to become "in the Spirit", or in the state of having the Holy Spirit of God.

Sara.

-- October 29, 2006 4:09 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

Chuckle.. guess we just have to agree to disagree then on this point. As for God - His ways are perfect and past finding out.. who can know them?

Back to the Dinar.. :)

Love ya, Carl.

Sara.

-- October 29, 2006 4:17 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

You have now joined the ranks of comedians Tim and CHris!!

I laughed and laughed.....

I hope you guys get together and prepare a skit for the pig roast.

Sara,

Thanks, I was really hoping I was wrong.

Usually when I have a hard time getting along with someone it is because there is something about them that is very much like myself.

Well, I feel better now. It is never comfortable to be paranoid..:}

Concerning" alittle bit of truth"...

The art, if you will, of deception is to pre-emt, mix or integrate truth with lies.

The problem is that truths are absolutes and once mixed with anything destroys truth and the essence thereof.

It is like being alittle bit pregnant....:}

-- October 29, 2006 4:25 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

I thought a few jokes/thoughts might be welcome.
Maybe one of them might make you smile..

===

At Dyess Air Force Base, the Airman on the switchboard in the Comm Center answered the "Military Affiliated Radio System" (MARS) with: "MARS Station, Airman speaking." There was as a gasp on the other end, then a woman's voice said, "Good Heavens! I must have mis-dialed. I didn't even know we had people stationed on Mars now anyway." And she hung up.

===

If Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus...the who lives on Earth?

===

"Wal-Mart plans to open 90 stores in China, one of which will be a superstore called the Great Wal-Mart of China." --Jay Leno

===

Our ship was deployed south to train prospective officers in ship handling. For most of them, it was the first time they had handled a destroyer, and we suspected they'd be nervous. To add to their tension, the captain often ordered surprise manoeuvers to see if the trainee could operate under pressure.

One day the captain arrived on the bridge and, pointing to starboard, ordered the officer-trainee on duty to "Go over there." The fellow ran to the starboard side and looked back. The captain sighed. "Good, officer of the watch. Now take the ship with you!"

===

The air raid had just started and the air-raid warden was trying to get everyone into the shelter. One old woman refused to go, saying, "I'm not going anywhere until I find my teeth." The air-raid warden said, "What do you think they're dropping, love, sandwiches?"

===

Real joy comes not from ease or riches or from the praise of men, but from doing something worthwhile.

-- October 29, 2006 4:29 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Chris;

I also find CNN's coverage biased. Here is some interesting ones today:

Boehner: Post-election victory in Iraq

WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 (UPI) -- House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, says voters can expect the GOP to try for victory in Iraq if Republicans retain control of the U.S. Congress.

"We have no choice but to win in Iraq," Boehner told ABC News' "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" Sunday. "And all the Democrats want to do is just give up and bring the troops home. That's not what the American people want."

And after the election, Republicans will at least open the conversation about rising costs in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, Boehner said.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20061029-021521-1662r

-- October 29, 2006 4:55 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Chris;

I suppose Fox News saying they are "fair and balanced", is because EVERYONE knows the others are all NOT balanced, right?
Here is another one that gives the right side of the story:

Bush hits campaign trail, says Democrats have no plan on Iraq

Washington, Oct 29: Hitting the campaign trail ahead of the November 7 congressional polls, US President George W Bush has said his Republican Party would retain both houses of the legislature and dismissed democrats' critisism of his policies on Iraq and economy, the two crucial election issues.

"We will defeat the enemy in Iraq. We have a plan for victory. The only way we will not succeed is if we leave before the job is done," bush told thousands of Republicans yesterday in rural Indiana, his first campaign stop in a stretch that includes Texas, Montana and Nevada, and Georgia.

He said the Democrats "will leave before the job is done, and we will not let them. We will stay, we will fight and we will win."

"I want you to think about the Democrat plan for success. There isn't one. They are in agreement on one thing - they will leave before the job is done, and we will not let them," he said.

On economy also, he said the Democrats "want to get in your pocketbook. We're not going to let them."

The difference about Democrats and Republicans, he said, was in "which party will keep the tax low and the economy growing and which party will take the necessary steps to protect you from the terrorists."

"The Democrats will raise your taxes, and the Republicans will keep your taxes low," he added.

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=332305&sid=wor

-- October 29, 2006 5:05 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

US forces foil ambush in Iraq

Baghdad, Oct 29: Gunmen opened fire at a convoy of Iraqi pilgrims bound for Islam's holiest city, Mecca, on Sunday, killing at least one person, while US forces said they launched air and ground attacks that killed an estimated 17 insurgents preparing to ambush an American column.

The US military said its troops encountered insurgents near Balad, 80 kilometres north of Baghdad, early today, tipping them off to the planned ambush. In the counterattack, US warplanes killed three suspected insurgents in an initial attack and 14 more in a second in conjunction with ground forces, the military said.

It said the US attacks then set off other secondary blasts among the insurgents, showing they were armed with homemade mines and other explosives used to disable convoys.

"Despite the terrorists' ambush attempts, coalitions forces successfully continued their operation and detained three suspected terrorists," the military said in a statement.

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=332281&sid=WOR

-- October 29, 2006 5:11 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole
Just to clear the air...my disagreement is not with you personally...from your post, I recognize you as someone I would like being around...our concepts of religion is our only contention...so lets leave it at that...
I am sure we will get along at the pig roast..if you promise not to gang up on me with Sara...

Hugs to Sara! Even thou I only understand 1/2 of what she says when she gets on the scripture kick..I love ya any way sara...

-- October 29, 2006 5:40 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sara, well put. I agree with all of the scripture you have quoted. Been born again since Jan 7,1979. Quess the only question I have is why aren't you married? You are truly a Proverbs 31 woman. I'll just leave it at that.

-- October 29, 2006 6:47 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Carl and Willie.
You made my day. :)

Sara.

-- October 29, 2006 7:03 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

You're all wrong, MY GOD is the best one.

Hope you all repent from your false GOD before you're all dooooomed.

If you're stubborn about it I must free, save and release your soul by force, and will summon the Flying Spaghetti Monster. (This is when everybody gasps, and say...-"oh no, not the Flying Spaghetti Monster".)

We don't want that to happen....right?...so all be nice now, and accept my GOD and junk your GOD.

We've been here before, and this is an open end debate.

And, of course, we're there again, where we all are telling how much we respect religious convictions,....yes, we all do, but.....

To go back to the Dinar.....if I may.....

HYDRO = LIQUID , + CARBON = Liquid Carbon, = oil.

Hydro Carbon Law.....HCL, like that one, ok got it that's what I say from here on.

Yes, I agree with a lot of posters here, that the situation is excellent for revaluing the Dinar in concurrence with the FIL's implementation, but then again, the Dinar have been in a very excellent position to revalue for many years now, and I can point to a lot of events that have lined up all the planets to make an RV possible, but nothing.

We ARE getting closer everyday though, because it have to RV sometime.

So far, any sign that seem to be of good reason have defied the RV.

The time I have followed this subject I can't help but noticed the pattern with which news are spread.

The source of ONE data seem to emanate from a source. That data is then written about by blogger's, (like you and me) by reporters and a few other article writers.

It seems also that with the thousands and thousands of reporters that are trying everyday to impress his boss, by getting the "scope", very very few are actually doing the actual writing of an article.

That article is then copied pasted cut and reshaped and will get on another newspapers editorial desk, as a "new" article. It's just enough re-creation in it, that it can not be claimed to be a copy of someone else's article.

So you read the news for today on , lets say, "Iraq News", and you will get into almost identical articles. Go to "Middle East News" and you get a copy of them all, go to "Kuwait news", and they are rehearsed again.

No wonder it's so easy to start a rumor.

The last week have seen a difference in Iraq, it's presence so to say.

Only a week or so back, Malaki was a punch ball.

I don't know if all this is staged for the public, or if it is real events that are developing.

Iraq is beginning to get it's own identity, in it's government.

Malaki, and the US administration seem to have a stand off, and Iraq survived. A split or difference is in the making, in cooperation and as an allied but still, there is signs now that the Iraqi government is not playing the USA say, WE do, game no more.

US sets, deadlines, Iraqis protests, and it becomes "benchmarks" instead.
Malaki tells the US governor to hold his horses, that he can't walk around and expecting things to be done his way, as under the occupation when the buck stopped at Bremer.

So far it doesn't seem to be a split where the major purposes of both nations are compromised, they just want to demonstrate that they are Iraqis, and they are running the show, not the USA.

It might very well be a phase where Iraq is becoming truly Iraqi.

Iraq needs a very strong man, or a father figure as a leader. I doubt Malaki is at that point now, but just by taking a stand against the US, he have suddenly got a lot more political clout in his own country. So maybe this is for the better.

We just got to watch and see, where this is going. Perhaps, the US have scared the s..t out of the Iraqi Government and are lining up their expectations, perhaps, the Iraqis are sick and tired of Americans getting involved with their business and have put down the foot, perhaps it's a showcase, and all planned, perhaps it's the line you couldn't cross, and we will see a junta. We'll see.

Carole,

No I'm not on this, or any other blog, with any name other than my own. I believe you suggested it not too long ago as well, and I give the same answer now. I'm comfortable being who I am. That thought, that I'm cloaking in other identities is your own creation.

Do you cross dress? OOOps, It just came over me, from nowhere, I admit, it was my own creation, not that I want to associate you with cross dressing in any way or form, Carole.

It would be unfair to associate you with cross dressing, Carole. In fact, I have no single proof of you being a cross dresser, Carole, so the issue of you as a cross dresser, Carole, is just plain ridiculous.

Sara,

Have not had a lot of time lately, sorry for late response, you asked me about the input if I think the war in Iraq is a religious war.

Well, I had to think about that for a second, and I want to say it's a war for survival.

Ultimately any living thing strive for surviving, and that is the strongest force in life. I would say that is the force that is underlines sex, greed, hunger, society building, and any rationale that will line up with the purpose of survival. Also thus religion.

Of course, I can see it coming, the chicken and egg, routine, but I think I have a point in saying that the force if survival is the strongest one of them all. It will motivate our religious beliefs, and if you had a set of religious rules that say Christianity, and another manual saying Muslim, we can of course say it's a religious war, but to me it's not the first in line of order.

Survival, in the Christian world, ( and I think without doubt we're doing it much better here in this end of the world, than over there), is a different set of social routines, compared with the Muslim instruction book. As far as a Muslim is concerned, he wants to tell you that his instruction book is better than your instruction book, but that 's another story, but it touches on what is survival for him, as well as our ways, is in our eyes, better for survival.

Let me spin on this to get to my point.

The way we measure survival is the way we can handle our life, the way we can control our life, and the way we can produce products that will benefit our survival. How much knowledge we have about things nature is pretty much a scale in how much we can control what we're looking at.

So in our Christian culture ( that is culture more than religion, at least nowadays), we live in a very modern culture, the Muslim area have no knowledge of creating computer chips, or Hubble telescopes, but by some mysterious, for us, unthinkable idea, they still like to live a society that is a bit backwards, in our eyes.

Spiritually it's a dead end both for Christians and Muslims to try to resist each other by proving what way is the best, because survival is not in the religious instruction book, it's just there, (I know Sara, God created it therefore....).

It's an instinct that is very deeply rooted, we seek things that are familiar, same group of people, same group of ideas, religious, or political or social, for support and protection of each other ( survival), and shun anything that is against our survival. We easily get the idea that our enemies, from the past or now, is dumb. Dumb Germans, Dumb, Russians, Dumb Al Qaida. If it is not US, it is LESS. (Dumb, stupid, naive, lesser will, misslead, and less smart. I know that's what we say about Europeans, but I'm talking about what they say about us.) If it's not US, it's LESS.

So we want to survive, with our rules, the Muslims want to survive, with their rules,(Way of life, is a more modern way of saying it) we had a couple of idiots that crashed a couple of airplanes into buildings, and caused us harm. Threatening our survival.

So we smash things on the Muslim play field, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Muslims feel threatened, in their way of survival.

Swap the individual participants, from birth, up until now, and the scenario would be the same.

Na, Sara, I think this thing is more about survival, and we toss the rulebook of life, against each other, in that fight. Religion is secondary. Religion is a path of survival, a way of better survival, spiritually and bodily.

You can get as religious on "Natural Food"as well as "Wall Street Index", as well as Christianity or Islam. Whatever makes you live better , healthier, higher quality of life. Happier, and self satisfying goals is always a higher level of living than a non survival, dependent, and rule ridden life.

There is a contradictory here, a person that follows the rules, will get more freedom. I'm sure you can trust one of your kids to stay out a bit later, as he/she will follow the rules. The kid that always breaks, the rules, will not get his freedom, and have to stay home, because he can not be trusted.

A very primitive society , like the clan and tribes society the Arabian culture so much still depends on, matches perfectly a religion with very tough rules, and stringent routines, as this is about the only thing that will put ANY structure into the society. So for THEM, it is the ticket to freedom.

THAT is survival for THEM.

Our idea what the criterias are for a healthy bodily and spiritual life, well that you can agrue with a Muslim, Amish or Buddhist as much as you like.

With a little bit of luck you may be able to sell him/her on your instruction book as the blue print in life, but IF he/she chooses to convert, it is because of his/her idea of better SURVIVAL.

-- October 29, 2006 11:44 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

Not to worry!! Sara and I won't gang up on you. As for myself I am taking bodyguards.

Willie,

Why the disguise? I don't get it, but we have eternity to discuss it! :} All to HIs glory!!

Roger,
Fret Not, it is almost the first of the month... you will get your Lithium adjustment and you'll be fine again! :}

Carl ( again),

That is fine...we can leave it at that.... but You never told me about your God...I told you about mine
I'd really like to hear about yours...but it is up to you, of course.

Sara, I'll bet you are happy!! Me too!! Especially after seeing my mom doing so well and on the mend from surgery.

-- October 30, 2006 1:41 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

Not to worry!! Sara and I won't gang up on you. As for myself I am taking bodyguards.

Willie,

Why the disguise? I don't get it, but we have eternity to discuss it! :} All to HIs glory!!

Roger,
Fret Not, it is almost the first of the month... you will get your Lithium adjustment and you'll be fine again! :}

Carl ( again),

That is fine...we can leave it at that.... but You never told me about your God...I told you about mine
I'd really like to hear about yours...but it is up to you, of course.

Sara, I'll bet you are happy!! Me too!! Especially after seeing my mom doing so well and on the mend from surgery.

-- October 30, 2006 1:42 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Would you believe The Supernatural...??

Roger;

You wrote, "Hope you all repent... before you're all dooooomed."
You speak of words of eternal doom.
Would anything at all possibly cause you to consider such words as true?
Would you believe the words if someone came to you from beyond the grave,
an actual supernatural visitation from beyond death, coming back to you now..
bringing you a testimony that such a place exists.. and begging you to repent?

Jesus once told a story, which he did not say was a parable.
In it, He told about a man who died and found himself in hell.
He didn't wish to be there, and his thoughts turned to those he loved.
He saw a space between himself in the flames of hell and a place where
the righteous dead were, in Abraham's busom.
He therefore, out of love for his relatives, asked for mercy for them by asking
for one to be sent to his relatives from beyond the grave to explain the reality:

Luk 16:27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'

Abraham answered him:

Luk 16:29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'

The man thought on this and replied:

Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'

He was certain that, if only they had a supernatural visitation, they would see the truth and turn, protecting them from coming into that place of torment. Abraham gave this answer:

Luk 16:31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

This teaches that even if someone should rise from the dead and supernaturally visit a person to explain that there is a hell, in order to prevent them from going there, those who will not be persuaded by listening to the words of God in the Bible will not believe such a supernatural visitation, either.
As Jesus testified:

Joh 8:23 And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

Joh 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

If men do not wish to believe that Jesus is God, come in the flesh, and repent of their sins, they will die in their sins.

Perhaps you are right.. survival is the key. What can be more important to a man than his eternal survival?

Hell is the place of eternal death.. if survival really is the true motivating factor in men's lives as you say it is..

what could be more logical, rational and wise than to choose the way of eternal life?

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live

Sara.

-- October 30, 2006 4:25 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Roger!
Glad to see ya post....good read...hope the new adventure is playing well....I see where you have been and I presume you are gaining some good hazard weather skills...

Carole:
I won't discuss concepts of religion with you on the board any longer...as this board is really not design for that, unless it relates to the dinar...our versions of "GOD" is just that our versions...
If you want to send me your email,I will give you my version off the board...I can be reached at traderconnections@yahoo.com.

Sara:
Roger was joking....trying to make light of the open ended conversation we were having, because he knew I was about to open a flood gate that no body on this board really wants open......

Roger and I do believe in life after death...how do we know?.....In our intense discussions on which came first, "the chicken or the egg", he and I were both amazed to discover, we have a mutual show we watch. We watch the medium John Edwards on A&E every week talking with the dearly departed...

You know he asked about Jesus the other day and asked if he could come to the microphone (they have to use a microphone, because the vail is to thick to hear them otherwise) but he had lost his voice from yelling to his father about those stupid muslims and other simpletons who just would not toll the line...So! his dad told him to take a vacation for a week to heal the throat...it seems the mixtue of honey, lemon, mint and little alabama white dew wasn't working very well... and so he was on a Revival Sabatical(actually a salmon fishing trip, but you get tax deductions if your main purpose is business) to Canada.......

JUST POKING AT YA SARA...PLEASE DON'T SHOOT ME WITH THE SCRIPTURE SHOTGUN AGAIN...it makes my brain hurt...

-- October 30, 2006 6:04 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara/Willie,

Do you think Matthew 10:14 comes into play here?

I am starting to feel that way.

We may be providing a playground for you know who.

-- October 30, 2006 6:35 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

I am intersted in what you do? What is your background? Do you live in the US?

You sound like a very interesting person.

Carole

-- October 30, 2006 7:10 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Willie,

How can you tell from Sara's posts that she is not married?

Do you have the gift of Prophesy. Sara warned us not to got there (too soon, at least)

Roger.

Would that be the spaghetti monster that is to come when Iran's demon-jahd fires nucular missiles and causes world unreast. The one that will rise out of the pumpkin patch and give all good little girls and boys Dinar?

How I long for some good Dinar news.

I would take a good rumor at this point

-- October 30, 2006 7:23 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Sorry,

Last post was mine

-- October 30, 2006 7:25 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

As they say in Wiccan in reference to knowledge...

"Lege....Lege....Lege.... ora et labora"

-- October 30, 2006 7:37 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Chris:

The rumor is Roger has been out of touch for some very secretive negoiations with the spaghetti monster...you know logistics, tactics, against the dominions that don't like spaghetti...its a toss up first if green peppers or mushrooms in the sauce will be the first folly...each has its own advantages...but regardless he will be riding on a tomato colored horse...which tomato has not be decided yet..

-- October 30, 2006 8:07 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger/Carl,

I looked up Wiccan.

Now I see and it all makes perfect sense to me now.

You are both into witchcraft.

No wonder you shutter and get so upset over the name of Jesus and the bible.

Sara/Willie

Yep! Matthew 10:14 for me. And I would highly suggest it for you two also.
1Th 5:21-22, I beleive applies here too, along with about 110 other references. Check your concordences!!!

It is very clear to me.

Woe to those who call evil good...Isaiah 5:20

Psalm 101:4..Men of perverse hearts shall be far from me: I will have nothing to do with evil

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them..

You know right from the begining, i have thought that Roger and Carl were the same person. I thought maybe it was just some of my professional skills grabbing my attention.

Well, maybe they are not the same person, but they are certainly soul-mates.

I guess I don't understand your esteem and apparent benevolent regard for them. It gives them affirmation.

But oh well, it is not a requirement that I understand....

I wonder how many other witchy-poos are amongst us
????

I pray Tim is not one of them. And also, Okie and panhandler.....

No wonder Carl was not willing to discuss his god...it was okay to discuss and defame mine though....

typical!!

Carole

-- October 30, 2006 8:47 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole:
Again for the second time...If you wish to discuss religion email me...Sara can tell you I don't bite...

You have a lot to learn about Wicca....typical reaction of someone who doesn't have a clue...you would fit perfect on the Salem Witch Trail Jury...

I do not wish to take up the boards time ....

Again...traderconnections@yahoo.com

-- October 30, 2006 9:06 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole...

Again this is for you and you only...

Lege...Lege....Lege....ora et labor....

I never said I did not wish to discuss the issue of God....Go back and read my post....did I say I would not discuss the subject? I believe I said not on this board, I do not wish to bore everybody else...

Sara! will you read the post for her...apparently it needs to interpreted so she can understand it...

-- October 30, 2006 9:17 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole:

By the way I did not know there was more than one GOD...interesting concept thou....

First Lesson:

One God just different points of view on GOD...stop! don't go any further...think about that one for a little bit...

-- October 30, 2006 9:21 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole……

You mentioned your prayers and they included me not being a Wiccan. Well your prayers are answered because I”m not one, however, my daughter in-law is a Wiccan and I support her in that belief. You must remember there are many paths to Gods house and what you believe may not be the correct path for everybody on this planet.

I invited God into my heart at an early age and he has been there ever since, guiding me along my path. Every time I came to a crossroad in my life I asked the God that resides within me for guidance and it was given.

I come from a long line of Master Masons and am one myself. When I’m in a Masonic Lodge I feel very close to my God. I’ve received more light and illumination from my lodge than from any other place. I’ve been all over this planet and I’ve always been able to contact a Mason or a Lodge, no matter what the political situation was in the Country. Believe me, that’s a good feeling when you’re in a strange country.

When I’m at a family reunion we’ve learned not to discuss religion or politics because it always ends up in a wild discussion. If you’ve never tried to convince someone that the whole world doesn’t revolve around being a “hard shell Baptist”….you’ve not experienced life at it’s fullest.

-- October 30, 2006 10:26 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Interesting discussion about relgion. From Christains, to those who practice Wiccan. I learned Carl's a Mason. Carl, what degree of Mason are you?

Back to Taxmama's rumor of the RV occuring on 10/31/06. I guess at this point it is wait and see. If the RV occurs how long before banks in the U.S. are in a position to exchange Dinars for Dollars? Weeks? Months?

Now, back to our special religious programming.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 30, 2006 10:44 AM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Regarding the comment of my "rumor". I don't do rumors. I only pass along information I receive.
The Article 8 will be signed on the 31st of October and at that point, the Dinar could be traded internationally and given a decent revaluation. It is up to the Iraqi's to request that it be traded international.
I read somewhere that Condi Rice will be there to "nudge" them along.
I would imagine it could take several weeks before we could exchange it in the U.S.
I also read on IIF that Bank of America employees in NYC were told they were going to be selling it on November 13.
Lots of things are happening.

-- October 30, 2006 10:54 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Hi, Tim on the road here, checking in.

Carole, you asked about if I was a witchee poo. Tim, a "witchee poo"?, you gotta be kidding! The only witch I usually like is a sand-witch, served on Winnepeg rye bread. However, I have to say, I did watch Bewitched when I was younger, and I thought Elizabeth Montgomery, who played Samantha, the witch, was pretty hot.

If people from a Christian background want to worry about Wicca, I guess that's their business. I won't criticize that decision.

But I will say, if you are looking for religious forces that are a sizable, realistic threat, to you, last I hear, Al Queda was still trying to buy a nuclear bomb, for 'export', to America.

On a threat scale, one to one hundred, I'd say fundementalist Islam is about 90, and Wicca 0.000001

I am also not in allegiance with any Spagetti Monster, although I have to admit, I like going to Tony Roma's Italian Restaurant every now and then. Vivre la Calebrese! Long live torto de ricutta!

Well I have to finish my salmon-topped bagel, and take my honey mint lemon tea, with my lithium, so I can go to work.

Glad to hear your mother is doing well.

-- October 30, 2006 11:02 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Just confirming, that was me.

-- October 30, 2006 11:08 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

OK, shotgun put away.
Let's move on to Dinar..
it was a fun break. :)

And.. is that knowledge reference similar to
"mene mene tekel upharsin"? (Daniel 5:25-26)
;) (just jokin ya.. put away the entire animal city..
animosity.. you are holding onto, my friend)

Carole;

I suggest we leave it with God, and just agree to disagree.
For someone who says they were the most stubborn creature around..
before you accepted Christ..
you haven't given the same consideration to others who are as stubborn as you were,
except in their own viewpoints.
Let God work.. only He can speak to a soul.
All souls are HIS..
there is only ONE Savior..
and you and I are not Him.
Surely if God could reach such a stubborn person as yourself...
He isn't done with these you consider to be beyond all help?
Did you EVER fit that category yourself?

And, so you know, I never answer personal questions about myself..
due to fact that the minute I have done so in the past..
those who have a distinct dislike of me have taken it as ammunition.
There was even one poster whom I ticked off royally who posted a post
to me showing he knew far more about me than I have EVER said
on any forum or email.. leading me to be even more than concerned.
I trust you understand how an invasion of privacy can harm one's openness.
We are at war, you know.. and one has to wonder who has access to know
that kind of information about me.. when I have never disclosed it.
I'm hoping he was homeland security/cop and not a terrorist, frankly.
(Paranoia can abound at this point, so let's just leave that with God, too.)

Let's move on to Dinar..
Do you think the RV is a trick or treat? :)
I want a treat.. I am sick and tired of tricks..
and I think the Iraqi people need a treat so their economy can get flowing, too.
When does the ISX open to foreign investment if the FI law has indeed been implemented?
Anyone know?

Sara.

-- October 30, 2006 11:21 AM ∞

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mike wrote:

i have been trying to get a hold of warka bank but i am not getting any response.does anyboby have information.

-- October 30, 2006 11:42 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Preparatory committee meeting of Int'l Compact for Iraq initiative opens

Tuesday KUWAIT, Oct 30 (KUNA) -- Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, Sheikh Dr Mohammad Sabah Al-Salem Al-Sabah will inaugurate Tuesday the preparatory committee meetings for the International Compact for Iraq Initiative hosted in Kuwait.

The meetings will begin with an official ceremony with a speech by Kuwait presented by Sheikh Mohammad Al-Sabah followed by a speech by the United Nations representative.

During the first session, the participants will discuss the framework of the document and the shared commitments between Iraq and the international community. Saleh will then present the Iraqi government's vision of these commitments and the government's goals for the Compact's term.

The second session will be discussing supporting and financing developments in Iraq. The third and final sessions will discuss methods of putting the Contract into effect with each of the Iraqi government, the World Bank, and the United Nations sharing their plans.

The Compact's draft includes the Iraqi government's goals and vision for a five-year term spanning from 2006-2011.

The statement pointed out that discussion of the draft comes in line with efforts exerted to preparing the document in its final formula and endorsing it as a framework for action.

It said the document included the political, security, social and economic measures aimed at achieving Iraq's national objectives.

It said the Iraqi government would grant, through the document, the private sector a leading role in Iraq's economic activities and would work on reducing poverty rate and assisting the least poor citizens and facilitating services to all nationals.

Meanwhile, meetings of the preparatory group would witness participation of 14 countries including Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Spain, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Finland (current Chairman of the European Union), hosting country Kuwait and Iraq.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=916927

-- October 30, 2006 12:06 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Taxmama:

From my perspective until something is a verifiable fact it is still a rumor, but I apologize if I offended you by the use of the word "rumor".

Mike:

I believe either Okie or Roger had a explanation for Warka. You may have to scroll back a few pages to find it.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 30, 2006 12:17 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I think you got it right, Tim Bitts..
Even Deists trust in God and wish for true freedom of religion.
There is strength in our unity, under God.
The real threat is those who would remove that freedom from us all.
All who fight for freedom protect our right to trust in God.
For the vast majority of people in America "In God We Still Trust"..
And personally, I think the fellow who crosses his arms in front of the flag is Carl..
;)

Sara.

===

The song you are about to listen to, was sung at a Las Vegas
Diamond Rio concert. Although Diamond Rio has never before
done a statement song, they felt compelled to record "In God We Still
Trust."

But guess what? Sadly, major radio stations wouldn't play it
because it was considered politically incorrect. Consequently,
the song was never released to the public.

http://www.webratsmusic.com/video-10872-in-god-we-still-trust.php

-- October 30, 2006 12:48 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

TAXMAMA: I found this on my other forum, most of it is backed up with web linq on the bottom.

-- October 30, 2006 12:57 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

AAAAAAAH! SHUCKS!!!!!!!!

Do I have too Sara....I was just having a little fun?

-- October 30, 2006 12:59 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

Quote:
(1)4. The International Advisory and Monitoring Board has a meeting scheduled Oct 31 , 2006. When they meet the Iraqi Govt can Request control of the oil proceeds from the IAMB and Resend Resolution 1637 and sign article VIII and trade thier curency internationally.

30/31 Oct IAMB Meeting and ICBG to launch
30 Oct. - KUWAIT, Oct 27 (KUNA) -- Governor of the Central Bank of Kuwait (CBK) Sheikh Salem Abdulaziz Al-Sabah is due to fly to the United Arab Emirates to take part in the annual meetings of the monetary agencies and Central Banks of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states, slated next Monday.The CBK said in a press statement released today, discussions during this annual meeting will focus on the infrastructure required for forming the monetary union, launch of the unified GCC currency and the corresponding legislations in particular what concerns the Gulf Central Bank.
31 Oct. The state of Kuwait would host a preparatory meeting for the International Compact for Iraq on October 31 where discussions would focus on the final preparations to endorse the international compact by the end of 2006.
4 Nov. Iraq reconciliation conference in Mecca
4th Nov. A member of the Higher Commission for National Reconciliation Farouq Abdullah that "decisions were made to convene a conference of political forces for national reconciliation on the fourth of next month in Baghdad.
5-9 Nov Iraq Reconstruction Exhibition will be held at the Kermanshah permanent fairgrounds.
6 Nov. Proposed new hubs for economic reform Baghdad-Sabah The Ministry of Industry and Minerals its Colloquium Economic five on the 6th of November next, tagged "the effects of economic reform on employment" of the researcher, Huda Taha Ismail.
13 Nov. Rumour of BoA selling dinars from 13/11, we were told they'd only be dealing with dinars once it was 'trading' internationally........
29 November - 1 December Expert Meeting on the Participation of Developing Countries in New Dynamic Sectors of World Trade: Review of the Energy Sector
Geneva, Switzerland
30 Nov International Compact for Iraq signed
31 November deathline of development of a payment system through the Automatic Clearing House.
9. December ?. DFI is turned over to the GOI.
10. Jan 1st. Beginning of a new fiscal year.
11. March 22, 2007. Iraq's IMF Stand-By Arrangement expires
12. 2008. Iraq begins making large IMF fund payments

Link for Resolution 1637

http://www.iamb.info/pdf/unsc1637.pdf

The DFI was established pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1483 and holds the proceeds of petroleum export sales from Iraq, as well as remaining balances from the UN Oil-for-Food Program and other frozen Iraqi funds. Disbursements from the DFI must be used for the benefit of the Iraqi people, and are directed by the Coalition Provisional Authority, in consultation with the Iraqi interim administration.

The link International Advisory and Monitoring Board for Iraq (IAMB) -- An audit oversight body for the Development Fund for Iraq (DFI)

The security council resolution 1637.

http://www.iamb.info/pdf/unsc1637.pdf

3rd pg #3. decides to extend 31 dec 2006 the arrangements established in paragraph 20 of the resolution 1483 for depositing into the delevopment fund for Iraq of proceeds from the export sales of petroleum, petroleum products, and natural gas.............................

#4 the Internationl advisory and monitoring board shall be reviewed at the request of the goverment of Iraq no later than 15, June 2006.

They met in June and extended the mandate until Dec 31, 2006.
This meeting in October will allow them to rescind resolution 1483 and Sign article VIII

Article VIII the link Articles of Agreement: Article VIII - General Obligations of Members

Section 2. Avoidance of restrictions on current payments
(a) Subject to the provisions of Article VII, Section 3(b) and Article XIV, Section 2, no member shall, without the approval of the Fund, impose restrictions on the making of payments and transfers for current international transactions.

(b) Exchange contracts which involve the currency of any member and which are contrary to the exchange control regulations of that member maintained or imposed consistently with this Agreement shall be unenforceable in the territories of any member. In addition, members may, by mutual accord, cooperate in measures for the purpose of making the exchange control regulations of either member more effective, provided that such measures and regulations are consistent with this Agreement.

The Iamb has currency restrictions on Iraqs funds that come from Petroleum sales.. sec 2 a . Once these are lifted Iraq can trade Internationally.

Article 8 link

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/aa/aa08.htm

Link for Resolution 1483

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/document/2003/0522resolution.htm

oops, almost forgot to post it

-- October 30, 2006 1:13 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Mark....

Great news about the International Compact. Looks like nothing but good news coming up!!!!!

Hope they announce an RV before Christmas!!!

-- October 30, 2006 1:36 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie!
I can relate to the religious conversations within the family......I took advantage of carole not knowing me personally to kind of polk at her...What she did not know is that within my family circle is a long line of church of god, church of prophecy and independent ministers, that I see weekly....all of these people are very dear and close to me as we get along very well....Sara and I have had these conversations many times,on and off of the board. I suspect Sara was probably grinning as she knew I was digging at Carole a little bit...of course at Caroles expense......

I polk at them just as I have Carole, and they polk back just as hard....but they know me personally and we take the banter of tit for tat on each others faith with laughter and grins...

The Wiccan in your family Has a good heart....as the first rule of her path is ...."DO NO HARM TO NONE" I have found that do be a great rule....as I realize that whatever I put out with ill will, the Universe will give me the opportunity to experience the results of my actions....

No! Carole...

I did not cast a spell on you.....I simply said.....Read....Read....Read...Pray....and Search for knowledge

I wish I could say I didn't mean to pull your chain but I must admit...I did it on purpose...I am trying to stop doing that but my old investigator habits seem to be dying slowly...

By the way...go back and read my post...I never said I was Wiccan or Diest...I said if you wanted to put me in a category I would probably fit in those two...but then again...I like some of the things about christianity, Zoroastrianism, hindu, Buddhism, Jainism,Shinto,Tao, Native American rituals,Druidism, etc...so I guess you should put me in the "SOONER" Category....

Lesson number two...

Religious Tolerance is a great healer among souls of the earth...

-- October 30, 2006 1:37 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara....

I hope your posted information about the International Compact will lead you to the "treat" you're looking for.

COM'ON DINAR!!!!!!
COM'ON PIG ROAST!!!!!!

-- October 30, 2006 1:42 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

:D (BIG smile)

You are the one who wrote today, QUOTE:

First Lesson:

One God just different points of view on GOD...stop! don't go any further...think about that one for a little bit...

===end of quote===

I just did as you suggested.. :)

In God We Still Trust...
was the result.

United we stand, divided we fall.
This conflict is about taking all freedom to believe about God as our consciences dictate AWAY from us ALL.
We get along.. we don't shoot those with differing beliefs, such as deists.
We can just agree to disagree on the points where we differ.
That makes us different from the Muslim extremists, and frankly, I think more civilized.
I am sick of hearing about the sectarian killings..
What "sectarian killings" means is, they won't get along, even though they have some of the same beliefs.
What a testimony to intolerance.
We should be better than they.

Sara.

-- October 30, 2006 1:46 PM ∞

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MARK wrote:

OKIE: That would be a nice X-MAS gift, however, I'm hoping to stuff my turkey with something more than stove top. You know what I mean. Come on R.V, YYOOOUUU CAN DO IT!!!! (ROB SNIEDER)

-- October 30, 2006 2:00 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Marshall Macluhan was a great Canadian thinker who died a while back. He studied the impact on the media, and modern technology, on modern life.

He wrote most of his stuff about forty years ago. One of his key concepts was encapsuled in a phrase he coined. He said, due to the influence of technology, that in some ways the world was becoming much smaller.

He said the world was becoming a "global village".

In many ways, that is true. It seems a permanent change in the world. We can't go back.

What this means is that, if, as did happen, a farmer in China catches a type of flu from his chickens, because in rural China, the livestock are kept in an area adjoined the home, then if the virus mutates, so it can be spread human to human, and if he coughs on a bus going to town, and if a tourist from Vancouver is on the bus breathes in the air and catches the virus, and then the tourist heads back to Canada the next day, and coughs in a department store where I am shopping, and I breath the air near him, then I suddenly have just caught bird flu, a very serious thing.

That's the new global village.

Jihad is the same thing. Not too long ago, some twisted men, living in a cave, with some very very intolerant hate-filled attitudes toward other people with other faiths, decided to send their own particular mutated virus, in this case a religious virus, around the world, the consequence of which was an airplane crashes into the World Trade Centre, and two wars, so far, have come out of it.

Welcome to the 21st century.

The solution? Radical Muslims who want to do us harm must learn to be tolerant in their attitudes, or someone must kill them.

The global village is too small to have bigots who hate people based on their religion running around. Hate and bigotry cause nothing but problems, for everyone.

Never hate Muslims. Just the ones who want to kill us.

Back to work.

-- October 30, 2006 2:32 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara!!

Grinning from ear to ear....

Carole

Not mad at me are you....at the pig roast you get a free swing...promise!!!

-- October 30, 2006 3:32 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Global Village War

Tim Bitts;

I agree.. and particularly liked these statements:

Never hate Muslims. Just the ones who want to kill us.

Radical Muslims who want to do us harm must learn to be tolerant in their attitudes, or someone must kill them.

===

The "someone" being faced with that task is mainly the United States Armed Forces, with support from the other Coalition members in the main front of this battle, Iraq. They should be upheld and supported in that mission, not because we are bloodthirsty imperialists (or whatever other hateful rhetoric is in vogue lately), but because there is no alternative but to fight when religious intolerance takes up arms to force its viewpoint on the world of others who do not share their view in the Global Village.

A few recent cases of religious intolerance associated with extremists:

Italian Feminist Pol Given Protection After Muslim Threat
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/italian-feminist-pol-given-protection-after-muslim-threat

Interesting comment on the page: If the Italian police believe that her life is in danger, shouldn't they lock up the Imam who they think is doing the threatening, rather than putting the victim in jail--at least figuratively?

UK Muslim Cleric Defends Execution Of Homosexuals, aged 16 and 18
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/uk-muslim-cleric-defends-execution-of-homosexuals

Australia’s Top Muslim Blames Women For Sex Attacks
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/australias-top-muslim-blames-women-for-sex-attacks

Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
"The uncovered meat is the problem." He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

French Police Say They Face “A Permanent Intifada”
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/french-police-say-they-face-a-permanent-intifada

National police reported 2,458 cases of violence against officers in the first six months of the year, on pace to top the 4,246 cases recorded for all of 2005 and the 3,842 in 2004.

"Many youths, many arsonists, many vandals behind the violence do it to cries of 'Allah Akbar' (God is Great) when our police cars are stoned," ..

"First, it was a rock here or there. Then it was rocks by the dozen. Now, they're leading operations of an almost military sort to trap us," said Loic Lecouplier, a police union official in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris. "These are acts of war."

====

These just go to show that it really is a war to do with religious intolerance in the Global Village, and not just a problem in Iraq.

Sara.

-- October 30, 2006 3:46 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Has anyone heard/read anything about today's big meeting? I'm real anxious...

-- October 30, 2006 4:06 PM ∞

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ryan wrote:

just found this blog. great info from everyone. if there is a revalue we just go to the banks that accept dinar and exchange them? its that easy??? does anyone out there know the process. just made it out here to kuwait and made a purchase for 1 mil ID.

-- October 30, 2006 6:30 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Ryan;

Welcome. :)
Article 8, which taxmama referred to in her post makes the Dinar internationally tradable.
She posted:

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125875

Regarding the comment of my "rumor". I don't do rumors. I only pass along information I receive.
The Article 8 will be signed on the 31st of October and at that point, the Dinar could be traded internationally and given a decent revaluation. It is up to the Iraqi's to request that it be traded international.
I read somewhere that Condi Rice will be there to "nudge" them along.
I would imagine it could take several weeks before we could exchange it in the U.S.
I also read on IIF that Bank of America employees in NYC were told they were going to be selling it on November 13.
Lots of things are happening.

===end of quote===
I want to point out the somewhat overlooked point in Taxmama's post.. It is up to the Iraqi's to request that it be traded international.

Even with the article 8 in place.. there is one more step..

The question is, of course.. whether the Iraqis (and God) are willing..

Rob N's question (and yours): "Back to Taxmama's rumor of the RV occuring on 10/31/06. I guess at this point it is wait and see. If the RV occurs how long before banks in the U.S. are in a position to exchange Dinars for Dollars? Weeks? Months?"

As for exchange.. once it is (potentially) able to be traded internationally by the article 8 being put into place AND after the Iraqis request it to be traded internationally, any bank will be able to trade it just as they do Swiss Franks, Euros, Yen or any other currency in the world.

Sara.

-- October 30, 2006 6:55 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Sara, only by PRIDE cometh contention.

-- October 30, 2006 8:04 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Iraq, China to revive 1997 oil deal October 28, 2006 - China and Iraq are reviving a $1.2 billion deal signed by Beijing and Saddam Hussein's government in 1997 to develop an Iraqi oil field, Baghdad's oil minister said Saturday.
Officials will meet next month to renegotiate the agreement over the al-Ahdab field, said Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani. He was wrapping up a three-nation tour to secure investment for Iraq's oil industry.
"If agreement is reached very quickly then I expect them to start working right away," al-Shahristani said at a news conference.
China is the world's second-largest oil consumer and has been investing heavily in trying to secure access to foreign supplies.
State-owned China National Petroleum Corp. signed the al-Ahdab deal in the midst of U.N. sanctions that barred direct dealings with Iraq's oil industry. Beijing was waiting for sanctions to end when the U.S. invasion in 2003 overthrew Saddam's government.
The new Baghdad government courted Beijing because Chinese producers have been willing to invest in Angola, Sudan and other countries considered too dangerous or politically isolated.
All other energy contracts signed by foreign producers during the Saddam era also must be renegotiated after Iraqi lawmakers enact a new oil and gas law, which is likely to happen this year.
Beijing had been thought to be out of the running for major contracts in postwar Iraq, with the best deals going to the United States and its allies. But the upsurge in violence there has made the country less attractive to Western producers.
Al-Shahristani said al-Ahdab would be among the first fields offered to foreign bidders, which will need to show technical and financial capability and a proven record in producing oil.
Iraq will need up to $20 billion in investment to develop its oil infrastructure, the minister said.
Al-Shahristani met with Chinese energy officials and executives of the country's four biggest oil companies — CNPC, China Petroleum and Chemical Corp., China National Offshore Oil Corp. and Sinochem Corp.
He said questions about security in Iraq did not come up, because the fields that interest Chinese producers are in the south, where violence is minimal.
He said Iraq also wants to develop areas in its western desert and the Kurdish region in the north.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 31, 2006 12:13 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

We shall all see what tomorrow holds for our dinar investments. What ever happens, sieze the day.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 31, 2006 12:19 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All:

What we need about now is a good tax lawyer....to help us deal with the capital gains tax.

I am going to start doing some research on this myself.

Sara,
Got your point...part of what you discern about my stubborness, etc before I found Christ is accurate...the rest...you are rationalizing and giving your self permission to do what ever you think you need to , so that you are accepted and on friendly terms with all. I have just chosen to take a differnet route.I guess I just have a different view of what the word tolerance means. You have an undeniable understanding of the scriptures and it is also obvious that you have a devotion to Christ and I thank you for that and your willingness to procalim it.

I respect your desire for annonimity. I guess I just assumed that since you talk to people on the phone and some have posted that you are not married, that you have been open to more personal conversation.

Anyway, these are exciting times for us dinaraholics, aren't they?

Tim/Okie
Whew!!!!!!!I was holding my breath.

Roger/Carl

Later days!!!!!

-- October 31, 2006 1:04 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie/Carole;

Sighhh...
I have carefully expounded what the Scriptures do say, and believe it.
I do not draw back from any proclamation it makes, including the difficult parts, like that there is a hell and demons.
However, when Willie accuses me of PRIDE and causing contention..
and you, Carole, of "rationalizing and giving your self permission to do what ever you think you need to, so that you are accepted and on friendly terms with all."
It makes me think of Saul of Tarsus.

Saul was a very devoted man, and stubborn in his religious views.
He detained (likely tortured) and killed many Christians who undoubtedly would have unhesitatingly believed him to be condemned to perdition.
But for some strange reason, God did not agree with this assessment.
In time, God brought that person into relationship with Himself.
And he became the Apostle Paul, who wrote over half of the New Testament text.
Which leads me to think I should let God choose who will go to heaven.. or no.

Unless God Himself says a soul will not obtain that mercy, I endeavor not to judge before the time.
Particularly when it is tempting to judge them because they have opposed my view and explanation of the gospel.
For, maybe it was not the gospel they rejected, but only my presentation of it, because I rubbed them the wrong way.
I am so human, and prone to take offense as men are.. instead I think I should remember the godly example of Tyndale.
Tyndale's dying words were, "Open the King of England's eyes!"...
a prayer for the man who had condemned him to burn at the stake.
NOT, "I shake off the dust of my feet against this man, send him to hell, O Lord."

Indeed, that Scripture says to shake off the dust of your feet, "as a testimony against them",
A TESTIMONY, not the final judgement against them.. for the Scriptures also admonish:
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

If I am accused of being too merciful..
where does that leave the God of mercy.. as less so?

As Paul wrote:

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If I err by being unwilling to take the place of God and pronounce judgement on another man's eternal soul..
then what did Paul mean here about not judging before the time?
In the very next verses he says:

1Co 4:7 For who makes you to differ from another? and what have you that you did not receive? Now, if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it?

I cannot think that I am above any other person.
What makes me different from them is my receiving a very great and kind GIFT.
And I cannot glory that I am greater for the receiving of that which was so kindly bestowed upon me.
I do not, therefore, think it is PRIDE within me, as Willie wrote, that motivates me to wish mercy for others.
Nor do I think I have compromised the truth of the gospel in order to be "accepted and on friendly terms with all."

Sara.

-- October 31, 2006 6:21 AM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sara,Sara, Sara. My statement about pride was concerning your last paragraph in which you said " These just go to show that it really is a war to do with religious intolerance in the global village, and not just a problem in Iraq". But I do like your statements on Paul, and I believe that just like him I have learned to be content under ALL situations. LOL

-- October 31, 2006 9:41 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

You are right, no one is to judge another and only God can do that.

I am not deciding to send anyone to hell, for heavens sake! And none of the scriptures I sited give me permission to do that either. SOme are only a proclammation of the potential future of those who live in darkness. God has already decided that, and has given direction for the believers to follow.

You seem to be stuck in some predestination mode. And I believe that robs man of his freewill and along with that denies GOd the glory given to HIm when man choses to accept HIs free and gracious gift of salvation, and follow HIm.

I don't understand the PRIDE thing from Willie either. I don't think you have demonstrated any pride as far as I can see. I just think that your view of tolerance is differnet than mine.

I do not think that tolerance shloud be extended to the point of abandoning discernment.

The Lord presented himself to Paul, the monster, and Paul decided to call HIm "Lord". He didn't have to, he could have ignored and refused the calling, as we all could.

I,we, have the most powerful tool against the forces of evil, and that is prayer. God will hear and honor those prayers as He has promised. But I beleive to entertain relationships that give unbelievers an opporotunity to slander and beguile the One who paid the most sacrificial price for our souls to be saved, is not what we ( or I) should be doing. It brings no glory to my Lord and truly does nothing to further the Kingdom. Not to mention that, for me, it tempts me to sin by becoming angry and hostile. You seem to have more control over that.If nothing else, look at Jesus' example when he was in the desert fasting for 40 days.

I'd like to dismiss my feelings as Rigtheous Indignation, but I think I would be fooling myself.

I would like to continue to be a part of this Dinar discussion, but will not participate in an arena which speaks to Mathew 7:6-7.

We object when someone slanders, beguiles and tramples on the reputation of our President. I think you were very clear about that in some of your past postings. How much more then should we be taken back by what has been done here to the character and name of Jesus?

Those who have given any part of their minds and hearts to the evil one, need to be fervently prayed for, asking that our Lord would give them more opporotunities to change their hearts towards Him. That is commanded of us by God. But to give them continued opporotunity and a PLATFORM to display dishonor to our Lord, I believe is just plain wrong, no matter how you cut it, at least that is how I see it for me. You may see it differently for you and your walk with the Lord...and so be it.

And yes, we can agree to disagree....

-- October 31, 2006 9:49 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

I'd like to make something very clear to you and anyone else who needs clarification.

I respect and love you as a sister in CHrist. And any disagreement or discourse we may have should not be interpreted as anything else on my part.

On some things, I may see things differently than you, but on the One and Only most important thing we have complete agreement on and unity.

Our admonishments to eachother may best be left for another time and another place.

Please refer to 2Cor 6:14-17.

I'll give you the last word...:}

-- October 31, 2006 10:39 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

I am anything but mad at you. I set the trap and you walked into it.

I guess I was hoping against hope that I was wrong, but you and Roger caused me some suspicions about the master you serve whom you call God.

I knew that by asking you to explain your god, you might give me a few more hints. And you did.

According to the tenents of your faith you are prompted to keep your identity secret. You failed!

According to the tenents of my faith, I am to expose you. And I succeeded!

I'll say no more so as not to give you an opporotunity to villanize me here.

But suffice it to say, I am a former Quija Board Queen!!!
Many Many years ago, and more than likely a different blend of what your into, but nonetheless out of the same cesspool of evil.

Sara's right, if God could have mercy and save me, He can save anyone--I have never doubted that.

So chant away my friend, but be very careful about the casting spells. There is alot written about those who have done so against any part of the Body of Christ. You would be wise to check it out first.

By the way---Happy Halloween!

Carole

-- October 31, 2006 11:40 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

I was scratching around for any news from Kuwait regarding the big meeting of Donors....this is all I could find.

I think the press briefing, after the meeting is completed, will be very interesting.....
=====================================================================================
Iraq seeks 100 billion dollars in aid
KUWAIT CITY, Oct 31, 2006 (AFP) - Iraq is seeking around 100 billion dollars from donor countries to develop its infrastructure over the next five years, an Iraqi official said Tuesday, as a meeting for donor nations opened in Kuwait.

"We need a 100 billion dollars to rebuild our infrastructure. This is an approximate figure for the next five years," Ali al-Dabbagh told a press conference.

"We need the assistance until the oil sector is reconstructed," Dabbagh said following the opening of the Preparatory Meeting for International Compact with Iraq.

Representatives of 14 major donor countries and seven international institutions are taking part in the one-day meeting which is expected to approve the blueprint of a partnership between Baghdad and the international community.

Donor nations are seeking commitments from Baghdad that it will carry out comprehensive economic, social and security reforms and combat rampant corruption before paying the aid.

The Compact is an initiative from the current Iraqi government aiming to secure financial and political backing from the international community for restoring peace and democracy to the war-torn nation.

oh/cjo

Copyright (c) 2006 Agence France-Presse
Received by NewsEdge Insight: 10/31/2006 05:45:36

-- October 31, 2006 12:39 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

I am very glad I didn't apply that pride scripture properly.. sorry, a forum board such as this with many posts can cause one to guess.
Sorry I guessed wrong, my apologies. I am glad you did not mean it as I had thought. :)

Carole;

I agree with your, "Our admonishments to each other may best be left for another time and another place."
If you wish to discuss further, my email is saraand-at-fastmail.fm
I appreciate you as a sister in the Lord and respect your position.
I meant no disrespect to the Lord in anything.

And, some very interesting news.. about France:

====

France will open an office in Iraqi Kurdistan
by Georges Malbrunot.
Publié le 31 octobre 2006

In January, France will open an embassy office in Arbil, the "capital" of the Kurdish provinces of northern Iraq. In doing so, Paris is taking note of the growing independence of Kurdistan, the only stable region in an Iraq torn by violence.

Today, the Kurds appear to be the big winners of the post-Saddam era. For the first time Iraq's president is one of their people, as is the chief of staff of the armed forces. Their leaders have been able to overcome their differences by sharing power. Talabani obtained the presidency of the Republic in Baghdad. His old rival, Mas'ud Barzani, is head of Kurdish interior affairs in Arbil. That leaves them with merging their peshmergas (the militias of Kurdish fighters), an indispensable precondition to an independence they feel has never been so close.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/english/20061031.WWW000000272_france_will_open_an_office_in_iraqi_kurdistan.html

-- October 31, 2006 12:40 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Saudis to Invest Over SR2 Billion in Iraq
Arab News - 22 October, 2006

Many Saudi businessmen are now getting ready to establish a number of development projects in Iraq after the Iraqi Parliament approved its foreign investment law, the Al-Eqtisadiah daily reported.

Iraqi authorities are studying the projects and providing the necessary guarantees to attract investors and attract more Arabian capital. Thaeer Al-Feili, consultant at the Iraqi Ministry of Housing, said that there are three big projects that Saudi investors tend to launch in Iraq. The projects include industrial, housing and agricultural investments. The total investment of these projects are estimated at more that SR2.2 billion ($ 587 million).

Al-Feili said that Saudi businessmen supported Iraq in the past by exporting food to Iraq and other necessary products. He pointed out that a business forum would be held in the following two months in Kuwait where Iraqi businessmen will meet with Arab businessmen to reveal investment opportunities in Iraq. About 500 Saudi companies are expected to attend the gathering.

http://www.gulfinthemedia.com/index.php?id=254287&news_type=Economy&lang=en&

-- October 31, 2006 1:13 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Kuwait says int'l Compact with Iraq "innovative"

By Najm Al-Shammari KUWAIT, Oct 30 (KUNA) -- Kuwait Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammad Al-Sabah said Monday preparatory meetings of the International Compact With Iraq (ICI) were "innovative" to ultimately achieve security and prosperity in Iraq.

"The idea of holding the International Compact with Iraq is innovative in order to show the seriousness of Iraq to reach the objectives and to see stability of this brotherly country and development of its economy to enable it supports its people, neighbors and (Arab) nation," Sheikh Mohammad, also deputy Prime Minister, told reporters.

Speaking while receiving visiting Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh, Sheikh Mohammad said the ICI meeting, due in Kuwait on Tuesday, was part of huge international endeavors to help Iraq stand on its feet again.

The meetings, he added, "will be a big support for Iraq and the Iraqi people." Saleh said he would inform the participants about his government's vision of necessary reforms.

"The Compact project is an Iraqi initiative which includes political, security and economic reforms thus transforming Iraq into a secured and prosperous country," said Saleh.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=917019

-- October 31, 2006 1:19 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

"We've had a very successful" high level preparatory meeting -- UN envoy

KUWAIT, Oct 31 (KUNA) -- Special Representative of the UN Secretary-General for Iraq Ambassador Ashraf Qazi termed on Tuesday the fifth and final preparatory meeting of the International Compact (ICI) with Iraq as "very successful." During a press conference after the meeting's conclusion, Qazi said "We've had a very successful high level preparatory group meeting," extending much gratitude to Kuwait for hosting this event.

He said the meeting played the role of developing ICI's documents and a major step towards fully completing the documents for the final adoption of the compact's resolution.

The adoption would either take place during the end of November or the beginning of December and the final location of the meeting was under consideration, he said.

ICI is an international partnership with Iraq to support the Iraqi government's initiatives in economics and security to overcome all relevant challenges to serve Iraq and the entire world, he explained.

Iraq's reforms, he said, would receive broad-range support from the international community through this initiative that was currently being detailed in terms of specific goals, mechanics and policies to ensure progress.

"We believe that the government of Iraq has already indicated its complete determination to fulfill its part of the international partnership and indeed the international community pledged its support for the compact process. And we are extremely optimistic about the commitments that will be made by the international community on the final event," he said.

He believed that today's meeting has clarified things and given further reasons for hope and optimism.

ICI's preparatory group included the UN, US, UK, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Kuwait, World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF), European Union (EU), Arab development funds, Islamic Development Bank (IDB), France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Spain.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=917337

-- October 31, 2006 1:28 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

We all appreciate an accolade, and your kind words to me recently were appreciated.
We like an "atta boy" or "atta girl"..
but as Christians, we look toward being more...

http://bill-bernardez.memory-of.com/Uploads/Audios/Audio632785871836406250.mp3

-- October 31, 2006 2:37 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

You haven't written to me off board yet..

Mat 12:31-32 .. every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men: Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him...

If Jesus (the Son of Man) wills to forgive men all sin and blasphemy against Himself.. who are we to hold it against them?

If He took no (eternal/permanent) offense and the deed was done against HIM, what need is there for us to take it up?

Isn't the principal goal to stay in the truth.. and speak the truth in LOVE? (Matt 5:44, John 13:34)

Unlike the extremist Muslims who take offense at the blasphemous - such as cartoons against their prophet Mohammed - we trust the judgement to God and keep ourselves in the love of God.. knowing that God will judge all men rightly in the end.

Sara.

-- October 31, 2006 3:59 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

This is a bit older but definitely something worth reading!!

Conservatives Find New Media Homes
Posted by Tom Segel
October 12, 2006

Traditional or "mainstream" media outlets continue to wither away in the face of never ending charges of liberal bias and attempts to indoctrinate America with the agenda of the left.

As these strong and meaningful changes are taking place opinion writers and pundits search for answers that will explain away the audience abandonment across the entire spectrum of traditional news outlets. Huge audience losses are being logged for network television news. Major newspaper and news magazine publications show significant decline in circulation numbers. Talk radio formats for the counter position to conservative talk have failed.

The only bright light on the news horizon seems to be The Fox News Channel...and it is the latest entry into cable news. Today, while celebrating its tenth year on the air, Fox News rightfully boasts it is the Number One cable news network. According to Glenn Garvin, writing for McClatchy Newspapers it has held this ranking...”for the past 58 months with an audience almost as big as its two main competitors combined. It took Fox News just five years to surpass MSNBC, with its powerful corporate backers, and CNN with its 16 year head start.” Garvin goes on to say that Fox News reached the 90 million-subscriber mark faster than any cable channel in history.

Conservatives have continually argued traditional news outlets ranging from print publications to electronic networks are liberal and Democrat leaning. Though this charge is always denied it remains the perception of most conservative thinking people.

When that charge is combined with the political statistics of the country it becomes a powerful mind-set. The United States is almost evenly divided between people with either a liberal or a conservative mentality. If such a large segment of the population views the mainstream media as “being in the enemy camp”, their perception automatically becomes their reality. With the birth of talk radio, online publications, conservative news magazines, the growth of cable television and email, a major exodus from traditional news sources was bound to be the outcome for the segment of the population that felt its position in local or world affairs was being underrepresented.

That grand old lady of newspapers, The New York Times, has seen a drop in actual circulation since 1990. Prior to that year it had claimed almost 2 million readers. By the year 2000 circulation had dropped to 1,500,000. Today the Times can only claim a circulation number of 1,126,000.

The number of daily newspapers in America has also plummeted. From 1,745 in 1980, they have dropped to an estimated 1,457 today. This is a decline of more than 17%. More importantly, readers between the ages of 34 and 64, those who are the most engaged in civil society, are abandoning the daily newspaper. Those who study such issues tell us that more than a century ago when newspapers made their public appearance, the appeal was to the masses... the blue-collar workers. Concerned publishers no longer run today’s publications. Instead huge corporations make the key decisions. Most of those have been geared toward advertisers instead of working America and community concerns.

With the repeal of the FCC “fairness doctrine” in 1987 those of a conservative nature migrated to talk radio. By 2004 more than 17% of the public was tuned in to a growing number of shows. Right-leaning hosts headed up by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage and Glenn Beck dominated the talk radio airwaves. Rush Limbaugh alone is said to reach an audience of 20 million people. This is a number three times greater than the top 25 daily newspapers combined circulation.

Politically liberal radio has tried to gain an audience with efforts such as Air America Network and personalities such as Al Franken, Jerry Brown and Mario Cuomo. All were less than successful and financially they were failures.

Though all formats for liberal or “progressive” thought and left of center news reporting are in decline, none shows grimmer audience projections than network television news. In the past decade CBS, NBC and ABC television have seen a combined ratings decline of 34 percent and they are down almost 60% from their peak year of 1969-70.

When CNN was born in 1980, it was estimated that 75 percent of all television viewers tuned in for the evening news. But, the birth of this cable news network did not result in a great decline. The majority of network television news loss has taken place in the past 10 years. This correlates directly with the introduction of Fox News Channel, plus the ever-increasing charges of news bias on the part of traditional media. Also, according to a Pew Research Center pole taken in the year 2000, technology and more people going online for information resulted in fewer numbers of this group watching network television news.

This moves the circle around to the beginning. Again as Garvin says, “...millions and millions of committed conservatives believed the other networks were liberal and Democratic-leaning.” He goes on to reflect, “You can argue all day long whether they’re right or wrong. But, the ratings numbers speak for themselves, and speak very loudly.”

All of this adds up to an interesting picture. Mainstream or traditional media outlets continue to decline. Fox News, with its “fair and balanced” slogan and charges of blatant conservatism by the left increases its numbers every year. Talk radio has become the electronic home of conservative thought and e-zines such as American Daily, GOPUSA, The Conservative Voice, Capitol Hill Coffee Shop, ChronWatch, and The USA Sentinel continue to attract new readers. As many are now prone to say, conservatives have found a home and it is with the new media.

http://newsbusters.org/node/8288

-- October 31, 2006 4:45 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Newspaper Circulations Down Except at the New York Post
Posted by Noel Sheppard on October 30, 2006 - 10:22.

This is pretty funny, folks (hat tip to Michelle Malkin). Editor & Publisher reported Monday ( http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003316421 ) that just about every major metropolitan newspaper’s circulation was down during the six-month period ending September 2006. One of the notable exceptions is the New York Post, which not only saw its numbers increase, but is also now the number five paper in the country:

The Los Angeles Times reported that daily circulation fell 8% to 775,766. Sunday dropped 6% to 1,172,005

The San Francisco Chronicle was down. Daily dropped 5.3% to 373,805 and Sunday fell 7.3% to 432,957.

The New York Times lost 3.5% daily to 1,086,798 and 3.5% on Sunday to 1,623,697. Its sister publication, The Boston Globe, reported decreases in daily circulation, down 6.7% to 386,415 and Sunday, down 9.9% to 587,292.

The Washington Post lost daily circulation, which was down 3.3% to 656,297 while Sunday declined 2.6% to 930,619.

Circulation losses at The Wall Street Journal were average, with daily down 1.9% to 2,043,235. The paper's Weekend Edition, however, saw its circulation fall 6.7% to 1,945,830.

Daily circulation at USA Today slipped 1.3% to 2,269,509.

The Chicago Tribune showed slight declines. Daily dropped 1.7% to 576,132 and Sunday decreased 1.3% to 937,907.

Losses at the Miami Herald were steep. Daily circulation fell 8.8% to 265,583 and Sunday fell 9.1% to 361,846.

One of the few papers bucking this trend: "The New York Post got a leg up in the city’s tab wars. Daily circulation at the paper overtook the Daily News and showed gains of 5% -- perhaps the only major metro in the country to report such growth -- to 704,011 copies."

And, the Post was celebrating: “The New York Post today surpassed the Daily News and The Washington Post to become the 5th largest newspaper in America after bucking the national trend and chalking up a whopping 5.1 percent jump in circulation.”

The powers that be were obviously quite pleased:

"This is a great and historic day for The Post," said Rupert Murdoch, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of News Corporation, which owns The Post.

"We have created a newspaper with a unique voice that reflects the heart and soul of New York, and today's publisher's statement, which for the first time places us ahead of the Daily News and in the top five newspapers in the country, is a testament to the vitality of the paper and the cherished role it plays in the life of this city."

For those interested, here are the numbers for the top 25:

1. USA Today: 2,269509, (-1.3%)
2. The Wall Street Journal: 2,043235, (-1.9%)
3. The New York Times: 1,086,798, (-3.5%)
4. Los Angeles Times: 775,766, (-8.0%)
5. The New York Post: 704,011, 5.3%
6. Daily News: 693,382, 1.0%
7. The Washington Post: 656,297, (-3.3%)
8. Chicago Tribune: 576,132, (-1.7%)
9. Houston Chronicle: 508,097, (-3.6%)
10. Newsday: 413,579, (-4.9%)
11. The Arizona Republic, Phoenix: 397,294, (-2.5%)
12. The Boston Globe: 386,415, (-6.7%)
13. The Star-Ledger, Newark, N.J.: 378,100, (-5.5%)
14. San Francisco Chronicle: 373,805, (-5.3%)
15. The Star Tribune, Minneapolis: 358,887, (-4.1%)
16. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 350,157, (-3.4%)
17. The Plain Dealer, Cleveland: 336,939, (-0.6%)
18. The Philadelphia Inquirer: 330,622, (-7.5%)
19. Detroit Free Press: 328,628, (-3.6%)
20. The Oregonian, Portland: 310,803, (-6.8%)
21. The San Diego Union-Tribune: 304,334, (-3.1%)
22. St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times: 288,676, (-3.2%)
23. The Orange County (Calif.) Register: 287,204, (-3.7%)
24. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch: 276,588, 0.6%
25. The Sacramento (Calif.) Bee: 273,609, (-5.4%)

COMMENTS:

B,

I don't read the Post cover-to-cover frequently enough to comment on its balance. However, I do believe the declines elsewhere are due to their lack of balance. I think Americans are getting fed up with obvious liberal bias. It's not news, it's editorial. And, guess what, Bal, most people don't read opinion pages. They want news, and all the papers that are continually seeing declines are so because they're publishing garbage.

And the public knows it!!!

Indiana Joe Says:
October 30, 2006 - 11:03

I'm sure someone will attribute part of this general fall-off to the "new" media replacing the "old" media. And there probably IS a component there, maybe a big one. That doesn't, however, explain the Post's rise.

I do find it interesting (and, I must admit, gratifying) that most of the really big drops were posted by some of the most liberal papers out there:

Los Angeles Times: 775,766, (-8.0%)

The Philadelphia Inquirer: 330,622, (-7.5%)

The Oregonian, Portland: 310,803, (-6.8%)

The Boston Globe: 386,415, (-6.7%)

That seems to be the four biggest drops on the list. I'm not sure the "new/old media" argument would explain that. And the NYT has been making a (small) bit of an effort lately to appear less liberal, from what I've read here.

Catherwood Says:
October 30, 2006 - 12:04

I wonder of some statistical comparison could be made between the decline in viewers for CBS, the decline in readers for the NY Times, the decline in CNN viewers, and the decline in listeners for Air America......It 's obvious that the public now recognizes and avoids the liberal media. Throw'em all out.

Nazareth Says:
October 30, 2006 - 14:23

Guy asked [Never minding the Post as to why its circulation is UP, why are the others down and the Post's is UP? If you don't like the "More Balanced" theory then what do you propose is the reason for the Post being up and the OTHERS being down?]

It's a vast right wing conspiracy, silly. Everyone knows that. President Bush owns the press- didn't you know that? Just ask the liberals, they'll tell you that- they've 'assured' me several times now that the GOP controls all things printed.

Of course, the news giants will blame it on the bloggers 'stealing' their readers- and people switching to the internet for their news, but fact is- people are running away from their publications as if the scandal sheets had the pox.

Placebo Says:
October 30, 2006 - 15:46

Well, duh! Perhaps the everyday Americans are getting tired of their chains being yanked by the loathsome and overtly prejudicial leftist press. Freedom of the Press is great when they aren’t spinning and weaving news to meet their leftist agenda. Folks aren’t as ill-informed or as stupid as the press and all media deem them to be.

Have they taken a moment; putting their smugness and elitist pretensions aside to wonder why?

The New York Post has gained circulation because it respects its readers and America. Undoubtedly, the snots of the contrived “prestigious” papers see The Post as a rag for the masses – the illiterate. In the end, the joke is on the self-proposed intelligentsia: their ilk will never get it, as it is beyond their supposed life station to do so.

http://newsbusters.org/node/8698

-- October 31, 2006 4:55 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

What has this to do with the DINAR and our investment.. ??
Well, everything.
The liberal media causes a loss of support for the war in Iraq..
and that damages the fortunes of the Iraqi people.. and the Dinar.

Sara.

===

Pentagon mounts public affairs ops to counter bad news, exploit "new media"
by Jim Mannion Mon Oct 30, 3:28 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Pentagon is expanding its public affairs operations to counter "inaccurate" news stories and editorials and exploit "new media" to get its message out, its chief spokesman said, denying the effort was linked to the US elections.

The initiative comes amid plummeting domestic support for the war in Iraq (NOTE: THINK THEY ARE RELATED??) and just before crucial mid-term congressional elections in which opposition Democrats are contesting Republican control of the Congress.

Eric Ruff, the Pentagon press secretary, said "We're looking at being quicker to respond to breaking news. Being quicker to respond, frankly, to inaccurate statements," he said.

"And we're looking at this whole issue of new media -- podcasting, and IM-ing and all those kinds of things, where people are basically running circles inside us," he said.

Ruff disclosed the expanded operations after questions were raised about a wall being built in the Pentagon press operations center that will separate the new unit from Pentagon public affairs officials who deal with the media.

He denied that the intent of the new operation was to go around the mainstream news media. (NOTE: THEY WON'T NEED TO, WE WILL JUST STOP GOING THERE ONCE WE HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE.. AND ALREADY ARE.. see above posts)

The unit includes a rapid response team, a "new media" group, and a team that specializes in getting Pentagon officials booked on radio and television shows.

But US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a strident critic of media coverage of Iraq, also has pushed for a sweeping overhaul in the way the military communicates with the public.

In a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in February, he called for 24-hour press operations centers and an approach that would give Internet operations and other channels of communications equal status to "20th century press relations."

"It will result in much less reliance on the traditional print press, just as publics of the US and the world are relying less on newspapers as their principal source of information," he said.

"I've looked at it as getting better at what we do, from the standpoint of taking advantage of technology, of setting the record straight from a public affairs position," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061030/pl_afp/usiraqpolitics

-- October 31, 2006 5:09 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

When speaking about the Dinar revaluation, I guess October 31, 2006 will go down as another missed date.

Even though the Dinar exchange rate apparently has not changed I am not disappointed. Just because it did not revalue today does not mean that it will not. In fact, I believe as Roger and others it must revalue.

Instead of being disappointed today let us sieze the day and begin buying more Dinar. I know I am.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 31, 2006 6:05 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From edinarfinancial.net

A sudden rise of the dollar exchange rate in Iraqi dinar because of Eid Holiday
October 30, 2006

The observers of the currency market confirmed that any occasion interposed by public holidays, specially those that continue for several days, is expected to raise the value of the American dollar against the Iraqi dinar but the difference is limited and does not exceed in the most serious cases 1500 dinars to the dollar, because such increases in the view of some speculators will be temporary, and they fear from the Iraqi Central Bank being a safety valve of the Iraqi dinar and market. If the Bank thought that the market rose, as the case happened a year and a half ago, it would suspend its vacation to begin offering large amounts of hard currency on the market directly and at prices lower than the circulation price; that is why most speculators are afraid to keep large quantities within their bags due to the risk of loss. But, dealing in the market is done on the basis of supply and demand; this means that small speculators, dealing directly with citizens, would achieve very high profits for this reason. And about their expectations of market prices, the observer demonstrated that the dollar exchange rate in the central auction, held in the Iraqi Central Bank, finally began to retreat before the Iraqi dinar, as the Bank started floating huge amounts of dollars because of the government's need for local cash, especially as the volume of government's consumption increased recently and this requires securing these expenses through the auction. The supply has increased lately from $ 35 million to $ 60 million per day.

The Bank started its daily auction with 1470 dinars to the dollar after being 1477. As for the markets, the dealers with citizen were not affected by the sudden decline but they would rush to raise their prices at the same moment with the increase; thus, it is expected for the demand to increase during these ten days, which would not be attended by the Iraqi Central Bank, but not much. About the last formal cession of the Bank, the auction manager there clarified that the sale price at which the auction came to was 1470 dinars to the dollar, accepted by the Bank, according to the buyers' desire and sold $ 43.8 million at the same prices. The quantity sold in cash to the Banks and its clients was $ 18.690 million at the price of 1470 with the addition of 11 points as prices contrast and profitability ratios, while the quantity sold for remittances to out of Iraq was $ 25 million, at 1470 dinars. This means that the amount of remittances surpassed the sale quantities of banks and this is due to the high demand for transfer, especially after the increased need to acquit the companies collaborating with the outside and the start of the reconstruction phase in Iraq.(Source)Asharq Al-Awsat

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 31, 2006 6:13 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

I think it might be worth a post noting that the constant POLLS you hear of are also biased..
in case you didn't notice it.
Very simply.. if you ask 24% more Democrats who they will vote for than Republicans,
you are going to be getting data which does not reflect the populace fairly.
Who is buying it?

Sara.

===

Yet Another Democrat-Skewed Poll
Posted by Noel Sheppard on October 22, 2006 - 22:13.

It seems the closer we get to Election Day, the more polls we’re going to be subjected to that over-sample Democrats. The latest entrant comes from Newsweek. In this one, 24 percent more Democrats were surveyed than Republicans.

Frankly, I have no interest in sharing any of the results from this survey, for if a polling agency can’t create a sample that accurately reflects the electorate, why should anybody care about the data it produces?

Maybe more importantly, why would a news organization pay for such results? After all, there are now 300 million people in America. It shouldn’t be hard to find equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats to answer questions, especially when the total sample is only 1,000.

In this instance, as reported by Reuters: 282 Republicans were questioned versus 349 Democrats and 330 Independents. As such, assuming it was important for the sample to accurately reflect the electorate, telemarketers could have smiled and dialed for another hour or two to make sure that was the case. In fact, a media outlet concerned with the integrity of the data it is disseminating would demand and pay for nothing less.

We shouldn’t be at all surprised by their love for junk math when it comes to polls that assist them in advancing their agenda.

http://newsbusters.org/node/8523

-- October 31, 2006 6:42 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

Thanks for your kind words. I jsut got home from work and have to run and see mom. I will e-mail you later tonight, and after the trick or treaters are in bed.

Carole

-- October 31, 2006 8:11 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

In the absence of any trick or treats at my house, I thought I would solicit comments about Malaki. Today he chooses Sadar by telling U.S. troops to back off.

I think we must hang on a little while longer to those Dinar. In fact, buy some more for good measure. I am still convinced we are still two years away from a RV.

I scrolled back to see Jim's date of Sept 14th and this one of October 31. I for one was hoping Taxmama was correct on the date and the RV of $.75.

Nonetheless, dates come and go the RV will happen in due time. Right now, the U.S. and Malaki must show some signs of solidarity against the insurgents. After the elections, I hope to see a big push by the White House and the military to gain control of Bagdad.

Until Malaki places Iraq above his own interest, do not look for a reval. Post all the positives you can about Iraq, because I need to read them. No Dinar burnout yet, but significant change needs to be seen pretty soon.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- October 31, 2006 10:45 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Rob,

Maliki is in a tight spot. He owes his political career to Sadr.

The former president was voted out by the Shiiti's that Sadr leads.

This fact alone has not gone unnoticed by Maliki.

Maliki must obtain some sort of legitimacy with Shiiti's. Shiiti's make up about 60 percent of the population according to General Sada.

Sunni's and Kurds make up the other 40 percent according to same source.

Maliki's policital survival is what is at stake. I have been noticing that he is trying to distance himself from the american's. He has to establish that he is his own person with the shiiti population.

Having said this, Maliki has a big problem with the security situation.

In addition, how the security situation is going to play out with the people of Baghdad will tell us whether Maliki will survive politically.

I see them as two opposite polls.

Much prayer is needed for the people of Iraq.

Laura

-- October 31, 2006 11:58 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Rob N:

Taxmama posted:

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125875

Regarding the comment of my "rumor". I don't do rumors. I only pass along information I receive.
The Article 8 will be signed on the 31st of October and at that point, the Dinar could be traded internationally and given a decent revaluation. It is up to the Iraqi's to request that it be traded international.
I read somewhere that Condi Rice will be there to "nudge" them along.
I would imagine it could take several weeks before we could exchange it in the U.S.
I also read on IIF that Bank of America employees in NYC were told they were going to be selling it on November 13.
Lots of things are happening.

===end of quote===

Presuming they DID do this article 8 the end of October - the implementation of it would still need to see the Iraqi government request it to be done.. which could take a bit more time.

I don't think the rumor is in the scrap heap just yet. Note she says, "Bank of America employees in NYC were told they were going to be selling it on November 13." That gives an implementation window from Oct 31 to Nov 13.. for this rumor, IMO.

But I do agree Maliki looks a bit of a problem.. one I hope can be resolved, one way or another, so that, hopefully.. it can RV.

Sara.

-- November 1, 2006 1:17 AM ∞

---

carl wrote:

Rob N...

It will come...the country is not stable enough...plus Iran has a big hold on Iraqi positions at this time....This is truely a battle for survival of the west.....if we pull out....the Iranians will immediately move in...which was and is their intent....the oil fields will then be theirs....then the other arab countries will start to fall...

I have said this many times They want to reunite the Persian Empire...If Iran gets the Alpha Dog Control of the middle east...you are going to see one hell of a dog fight....and their is only going to be one leaving the pit..

Carole...

Why do you give me so much material to play with? Tempt not sayth the Lord...

Lesson #3
The Early Christians put a emblem on the side of their churches as a sign of protection...

It was the WICCA five star Pendagram....as a sign of protection and a shelter from evil
The Sheriff Depts all over the US carry a emblem on their shirts as a emblem of protection...it is the Five Star Pendagram...I wore it for 24 years....and did proudly...

The Masonic organizations have a sister organization called the Eastern Star....I bet you can't guess where that came from either...

EVIL...? Evil....?

The satanic emblem is totally different....reseach it and tell the board how it is different...it will do you some good...I would tell ya...but you need the research...to expand your knowledge a little...don't read too much...it will give you a headache if you are not use to it...

Oh! carole!...you protest too much...again...lege.....lege...lege...

-- November 1, 2006 5:42 AM ∞

---

carl wrote:

Carole:
I must say I am impressed with your achievements in life....
I mean with you presently being the Internet Video Poker Queen from the Quija board Queen..thats quite a jump in such a short life span such as yours...I bet ya can't be a day over 12....but then again..I just assumed from your post...I stand corrected...there I go taking on your habits...

Now! me personally I never fooled around with the Quija Board....thats like going to a adult theatre and sitting next to someone in the dark...you never know if its going to be like ALLSTATE...ya know...you're in good hands..?

Wicca teaches that someone is basically stupid to mess with portals that can release things you don't won't to take home with ya...so you and I have ran in different circles...no wonder you called it a cesspool...I agree with ya...

Well! I must brag here thou....once when I was at a county fair, I entered a greased pig contest and was the lucky one to catch it...(if you had been my mother,I am sure the view point of luck would have been different...sort of like different sides of the fence on religion...know what I mean?) anyway! I won something, can't remember...but at least the pig made an impression on me...right side of my face I believe it was...

Does that maybe give me more points for the board...well! at least in your eyes?

-- November 1, 2006 9:08 AM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

These guys are on a roll! Looks like we might have some good news before Christmas!!!

Quote.......

"the formal adoption of ICI is scheduled for a high-level event during the next six weeks,"

=====================================================================================
Int''l Compact with Iraq preparatory meeting issued final communique
Int''l Compact with Iraq preparatory meeting issued final communique
01/11/2006
Source: Kuna

The fifth and final preparatory meeting for the International Compact with Iraq (ICI) Tuesday said recognizing challenges facing Iraq has helped shaping up strategies, objectives and benchmarks to overcome all difficulties facing the nation.

In a final communique following a one-day meeting, the ICI said the participants recognized the current challenges facing Iraq, which lead to shaping a series of strategies, objectives and benchmarks that would help in composing an integrated plan to overcome all difficulties.

"The compact, jointly co-chaired by the Government of Iraq and the United Nations, with the support of the World Bank, will over the next five years, bring together the international community and multilateral organizations to support Iraq in achieving its national vision" that would achieve security, democracy, freedom, equality and prosperity for Iraq, noted the communique.

ICI aims at creating a mutually reinforcing dynamic of national consensus and international support that would back up the Iraqi government's programs, restore Iraqi people's trust in the state, establish a framework of mutual commitments to support Iraq, settle security and political challenges, ascertain good governance, as well as kick start economic development.

The compact's members have pledged to provide Iraq with financial, technical and political support to overcome all current difficulties.

"Mindful of the urgency of rapid progress and firmly endorsing the compact as presented, the formal adoption of ICI is scheduled for a high-level event during the next six weeks," explained the communique.

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=2443

-- November 1, 2006 9:32 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sorry....last post was mine.

-- November 1, 2006 9:34 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

Who cares about symbols? I don't!

The swastika symbol was stolen from the hindus, etc....

What's your point?

-- November 1, 2006 10:44 AM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Carl, I think you are right. The Iranians are trying to revive the Persian Empire, or a reasonable facsimile. If they ever get control of all that oil money, it will come in real handy, to increase their influence in the region, and fund terrorism.

That's why John Kerry and the Democrats are such idiots. Kerry seems to think the Americans can just leave Iraq, go home, "bring the troops home", and everything will be ok. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The Iranians are now the leading terrorist country in the world. Give them a thousand billion or so, in oil money, from Iraq, and they will have the industrialized world by the short hairs.

So, in some ways, this war right now is no longer about Iraq. It's much bigger. It's about who gets to control the middle east.

Iranian leaders have said publically they want to annihilate Israel. They are working on a nuclear bomb, and will have it soon.

Are these the people the Democrats want to strengthen, by getting American troops out of Iraq? Guess so.

I seem to recall something from the Bible, in the book of Revalations, about a valley that area, called Armagedon, the site of the last battle on earth, before the end of the
world.....hmmmm.....

John Kerry should read a newspaper, every now and then. This stuff is obvious.

Whenever there is a power vacuum, someone will fill it.

That's probably the game clerics are playing in Iraq. They want a theocratic state, aligned with Iran.

And Maliki is in the middle of it, trying to figure out how to play his cards. He has to distance himself from the Americans, to get legitamacy with the Shiite religious faction, but if he gets too close to that tiger, and tries to ride it, the tiger might turn on him. We'll see.

I think what the clerics are worrying about is, what happens if America stays? Oakie has said their are four or five large American bases away from cities. If America sets up shop, and stays for the long term, they could make life very difficult for Iran. Permanent American bases in Iraq are an Iranian nightmare.

But they would be a good play for the Americans. Fighting terrorists and Sunnis and Iranians in the city, door to door, plays into their hands. Fighting door to door, the Americans don't have as much of a military advantage. If the country is stabilized, and the Americans retreat to bases in the middle of no where, it would be a very good move.

There are different kinds of military strengths. Setting up bases in the middle of nowhere would play to all the best American military strengths. They could see anyone coming toward them for miles, with satelites and drones, and spy planes, and could simply bomb anyone heading their with high level GPS bombing, before they even show up. And in the long run, leave security in the cities up to the Iraqi Army.

As you recall, the American Army quickly destroyed the Iraqi army, in short order, in an open fight.

Fighting in closed quarters is much more difficult.

The American Army and the White House may have this in mind, anyway. That could explain the bases Oakie alluded to. That's what Iran and Sadr is worried about.

So, I think the Americans have the right strategy right now: fight them street to street, for now, and train the Iraqi Army. I just hope, in the long run, they plan to stay in Iraq on bases.

-- November 1, 2006 11:01 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Last post was me.

-- November 1, 2006 11:04 AM ∞

---

anonymous wrote:

Has anyone out ther realized that the empolyees of BOA were told they would be selling dinars on Nov 13 not buying dinars? Unless they mean that they will be doing both they only will become another provider of dinars and that can't be good news.

Also, it would stand to reason that even if Article 8 was signed on 10/31 the result could take some time to be realized.

On November 12-16 the BIBF will be sponsoring a banking supervision program for sixteen high ranking official of the CBI. The program will be conducted by a team of international expert from the IMF and Fed NY (Federal Reserve Bank of NY). I find it interesting that this training program will be going on at the same time BOA will begin selling dinars.

Of course all of these move towards economic stability in Iraq would lead you to believe something big is in the works. But that is still the big question. From the blogs I have read on this site and the investment people I speak to--the dinars should of RV many times in the last few months. Although I do believe that all the recent moves the Iraqi government has made to solidify there economy, I believe there is a real possibility of the dinars RV before the second quarter of 2007. My reasoning for this is because many of the new laws and program recently adopted by the Iraqi government will be enacted at the begining of the year. So, the real question is --does the dinar need to be RV for the new economic plans to be sucsessful?

I guess only time will tell---------

-- November 1, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts....

This is an older article (with map) about the long term bases in Iraq. I spent some time at Al-Asad and can confirm that it's huge and very remote.

Made a believer out of me that we have long term plans for Iraq.

====================================================================================
US military officials confirmed to the BBC News website that this will mean upgrading and reinforcing a handful of huge airbases into which it is planned US forces will eventually pull back, to offer quick-response air support to Iraqi ground forces.

US SPENDING ON BASES

Balad base: $228.7m (2005); requested $17.8m (2006)
Al-Asad base: 2005 spending unknown; requested $46.3m (2006)
Tallil base: $10.8m (2005); requested $110.3m (2006)

This will allow a significant proportion of the 138,000 US soldiers in Iraq to go home, but tens of thousands will remain to staff these bases - at least in the short term.

The officials refused to confirm which bases they have in mind, but three key US airbases in Iraq are regularly cited as likely candidates.

They are at Balad, north of Baghdad, al-Asad in the western Anbar province, and Tallil, in the south. All three are in line to receive substantial chunks of the 2006 emergency budget.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4834032.stm

-- November 1, 2006 12:43 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

About that coup of Maliki...

Sunni insurgents encircle Baghdad
November 01, 2006 15:34 IST

Baghdad has been cut off by heavily armed Sunni insurgents, who are fighting Shia militias to complete the encirclement of the Iraqi capital, reports The Independent.

'The Sunni insurgents seem to be following a plan to control all the approaches to Baghdad. They have long held the highway leading west to the Jordanian border and east into Diyala province. Now they seem to be systematically taking over routes leading north and south,' says the article, titled 'Baghdad is under siege.'

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/nov/01iraq.htm

-- November 1, 2006 1:13 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Seems to me the Sunni Insurgents (Saddam's supporters) have the parliament stymied, too. Anything from the parliament that might delay their bid for control they stop by not allowing quorum. They are tightening their control for the coup they are planning..

Iraq Parliament Speaker, Lawmaker Feud

BAGHDAD, Iraq Nov 1, 2006 (AP)— Frustration over poor turnout in Iraq's parliament flared Wednesday, with house speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani having to be physically restrained from attacking a fellow Sunni lawmaker.

Al-Mashhadani had been holding a nationally televised news conference when he lashed out at Abdel-Karim al-Samarie for alleged corruption and failure to attend sessions, calling him a "dog" a deep insult in Iraq and other Arab societies.

"You are dishonest and a dog!" screamed al-Mashhadani.

Al-Samarie, a member of the main Sunni parliamentary bloc, the Iraqi Accordance Front, responded by calling al-Mashhadani a false patriot. The speaker, who belongs to a rival Sunni group The National Dialogue Council lunged at al-Samarie, but was held back by bodyguards.

Al-Mashhadani moved on to the parliament's main chamber, where he accosted other Sunni Accordance Front lawmakers, calling them "villains" and "dogs," and accusing them of colluding with the former Baath Party of toppled dictator Saddam Hussein.

Al-Mashhadani had been angered by low attendance among Iraqi Accordance Front lawmakers, which that prevented the 275-seat body from reaching the quorum of 138 of the 275 lawmakers.

In his earlier remarks to reporters, al-Mashhadani complained that lawmakers who failed to show up were delaying the ratification of a series of edicts reached by Shiite and Sunni religious figures in the Muslim holy city of Mecca last month that aims to stop sectarian bloodshed between Shiites and Sunnis.

"We should implement what we have signed and agreed on. This agreement is like a contract," al-Mashhadani said.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2620487

-- November 1, 2006 1:17 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

These are the kinds of people some Americans would want in control of the Senate or House during a war? What kinds of decisions will they make about the (duh, stupid??) troops? As these men with the banner say.. think Kerry and company will be able to help them with their superior intellectual decisions? (Like pulling out, maybe?)

Sara.

===

U.S. troops mock senator with banner: 'We R Stuck Hear N Irak'
Bush flays Kerry, Democrats: 'They have no plan for victory'
Posted: November 1, 2006

As a national uproar continues over comments by Sen. John Kerry suggesting American troops were lazy and not bright, President Bush is hammering Kerry and fellow Democrats for their lack of strategy for winning the war in Iraq, while troops themselves are mocking Kerry.

In a photo published on the Drudge Report, soldiers were shown holding a banner with intentional misspellings reading: "Halp Us Jon Carry – We R Stuck Hear N Irak."

"My problem with many of the Democrat voices in Washington is they have no plan for victory," Bush told talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh today. "I believe responsible leaders must come up with a plan for victory in order to achieve peace, and yet the only plan I hear is, one: let's get out of Iraq before the job is done – which would be a disaster for a future generation of Americans."

Bush pointed out that different from previous wars, "if you leave the battle, the enemy follows us home to America."

"That's one of the reasons why we will win in Iraq. I repeat: the only reason we could lose in Iraq is if we leave, and, therefore, we've got kids sacrificing in Iraq, and when they hear politicians say, 'Get out before the job is done,' that's discouraging to them, and it's discouraging to the Iraqis, and it's encouraging to the enemy. That's why my voice is so loud in saying to our troops: 'What you're doing is noble and important and you're going to win and history will look back and thank you for your sacrifices.'"

Bush's remarks come one day after a furor erupted over a statement by Kerry who told students at Pasadena City College in Southern California: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq. ..."

While the former presidential nominee later referred to his comment as a "botched joke," it came under immediate fire from the White House, where press secretary Tony Snow called it an "absolute insult."

"Senator Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who've given their lives in this."

Limbaugh told Bush, "Frankly, Mr. President, the American people are outraged by this because John Kerry is just the latest. This is not the first."

Bush answered:

Anybody who is in a position to serve this country ought to understand the consequences of words, and our troops deserve the full support of people in government. People here may not agree with my decision. I understand that. But what I don't understand is any diminution of their sacrifice. We've got incredible people in our military, and they deserve full praise and full support of this government. Secondly, what they deserve is a plan for victory, and we have a plan for victory. Our victory, as you know, is really to help the Iraqis win, to help the 12 million people, to help Iraq realize the dreams of 12 million people who voted. To help the political process and help the security process and help the economic process and we're doing just that. It's not easy work, because there's an enemy that still tries to derail the process. They're trying to foment sectarian violence, and on the other hand it's necessary work.

Kerry angered many in the military last December with remarks in an interview with CBS "Face the Nation" host Bob Schieffer, accusing U.S. soldiers of "terrorizing" Iraqi children...

Responding to the "stuck in Iraq" comment, Sen. John McCain, a POW in Vietnam and potential rival to Kerry in the 2008 presidential election, said in a statement the senator "owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education."

"Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere," McCain said.

The Arizona Republican said the "suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night."

"Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks," McCain concluded.

Sen. David Vitter, R-La., fired off a letter to Kerry today, calling the comment "truly despicable and offensive."

"It's a slap in the face of all of our intelligent, dedicated, brave men," Vitter wrote. " ... They aren't stupid, uneducated, or lazy. They're heroes. And they deserve your immediate apology."

The national commander of the American Legion also has called on Kerry to apologize.

"As a constituent of Senator Kerry's, I am disappointed. As leader of the American Legion, I am outraged," said Paul A. Morin. "A generation ago, Sen. Kerry slandered his comrades in Vietnam by saying that they were rapists and murderers. It wasn't true then and his warped view of today's heroes isn't true now."

Last year, the Heritage Foundation published a study titled, "Debunking the myth of the underprivileged soldier," which said "the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is."

For every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, the study said, "there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52728

-- November 1, 2006 2:40 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

All,

What's with the reshuffle with Iraq's cabinet again? The list is:

Interior Minister Jawad Al-Bulani

Defense Minister Abd Al-Qadir Muhammod

Education Minister Jasim Khudayr Al-Khizar

and also the possibility of:

Oil Minister Husayn Al-Shahristani

Not being on the ground in Iraq--I do not know how good these people are. However, what I am wondering is "Is this shake up being influenced by Cleric Sadr through Maliki?".

Sara's post on the Sunni's controlling all routes to Baghdad is also a factor on the parliament's not being able to get a forum.

Security is a major issue right now. Something is going to happen before long. It will probably happen after the USA elections!

Laura

-- November 1, 2006 3:56 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

All,

I thought it odd that the education minister post is listed on the list. It indicates to me that someone is trying very hard to influence minds!

In one of the news article with Iraq News - it was noted that Cleric Sadr teaches the belief in Takfiri theology (a belief denouncing fellow Muslims as infidels) especially as it regards Fallujah.

Why change the education leader now? It is as if, Maliki is being influenced by someone?.

The above belief runs contrary to the Iraq Constitution for religious freedom!

This would move the government away from a government like the USA and more toward an Islamic government.

Something to watch!

Laura

-- November 1, 2006 4:05 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Posted on the AboutDinar board today,
I thought this was a very good read about Iraq.
I highlighted some of it.. but it really is all very good. :)

Sara.

===
QUOTE:

This was a very good interview with the President of the United States of America!

RUSH: Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT: Hey, Rush, how are you?

RUSH: Never better. It's a thrill to have you on the program today and many thanks for making time for us.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, sir, for giving me a chance to visit with you.

RUSH: How are you doing?

THE PRESIDENT: I'm doing great. I really am. You know, when you've been doing this as long as I have you feed off the crowds and feed off the enthusiasm and you like a contest, and we're in a really important contest, and so I'm doing fine. It's kind of like a reminder of how I got here in the first place, and that is: go campaign hard and tell people what's on your mind. That's what I'm doing.

RUSH: Well, you have maintained optimism throughout. Many people, I guess -- in the opposition press, the opposition party -- are incredulous that you are optimistic about the outcome next Tuesday. Why is that? Why are you optimistic? What do you know that they don't?

THE PRESIDENT: First of all, I fully understand that here in Washington people are trying to proclaim the election over with, but I've had that experience before. That's what happened in 2004, and it's what happened in 2002. So one reason I'm optimistic is I trust the will of the people and not the national punditry. Secondly, I know that we're right on the issues -- and the issues, the two main issues, are low taxes and winning the war on terror and protecting the American people. So I believe if our candidates continue to talk about the strong economy, based upon low taxes, and an administration in a Congress that was willing to give professionals the tools necessary to protect them, we'll win this election.

RUSH: When you go out on the campaign trail or when you're in your private moments, do you think of the consequences of governing with a Democrat majority in either the House or the Senate when it comes to things like tax cuts and the war on terror?

THE PRESIDENT: No, I really don't think about the idea of having a Democrat-led House and Senate because I don't think it's going to happen. I do believe, though, that there's a big difference of opinion between the two parties. Every tax cut we passed, which has helped this economy grow, was opposed by the Democrat leadership. The people that would assume power are the very ones who oppose letting people keep more of their own money, and then when it came time to fighting this war on terror we had votes on whether or not we should be able to listen to al-Qaeda or an al-Qaeda affiliate making a phone call to the United States and the overwhelming majority of House Democrats voted against that bill. Or when it came time to question detainees that we picked up on the battlefield, the overwhelming majority of House and Senate Democrats voted against that bill. So there's just a different mindset, Rush, a different attitude about how to protect the American people. My attitude is to give the professionals the tools, and to stay on the offense and fight the enemy wherever we find them and defeat them overseas so we don't have to face them here.

RUSH: Yeah, but you've got -- as you've just said, you've got -- a sizable majority of people, not majority, but sizable number of Democrats who are trying to stop you from even finding these people. Let me go through a list of things. The New York Times, some other national newspapers, have published classified secrets of the United States during wartime. Everything from blowing up the financial tracking program that you had, to trying to destroy the Patriot Act, to trying to destroy your Foreign Surveillance Act, the leakers haven't been identified or punished. The American people are outraged about this Mr. President, because they consider this... They remember 9/11, and they know that this is not just a mere episodic event in their lives and they want to know when these people, media and leakers, are going to be held accountable for this action that, to them, is an attempt to sabotage and undermine victory over this enemy.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I share the concerns of the people who wonder why there are leaks, which tells the enemy how we're conducting the war against them. Obviously as Commander-in-Chief, Rush, I'm deeply concerned about our secrets being made known. There's a Justice Department Task Force or Justice Department group that are in the process of gathering the information necessary to find whether or not they can find the leakers. But you talk about the fact that some people don't want to give us the tools necessary to fight the war. All that means is we gotta win on November 7th. Now, I recognize some people don't think we're in a war. I know we're in a war, and I know there's an enemy that still wants to strike us. As a matter of fact, I spend a lot of time thinking about how best to protect the American people -- and the idea that, you know, some in Congress don't agree with me, I accept. But they should not deny the tools necessary to this government to do our most important job, and that's the fundamental issue in this campaign. So when I say that, you asked why I'm optimistic, because when I spell it out to the people I'm in front of, they fully understand. People come up to me all the time and say "Thank you for protecting us." My answer in this campaign is, "I'm going to continue to protect you, but I need a Congress that understands the stakes."

RUSH: You riled the press corps at one of the press conferences at the White House when you intimated that their work in Iraq has sometimes advanced the cause of the enemy, and there's a recent example of this. CNN recently aired video that they got from terrorists. They reached out to these terrorists, and according to accounts, the way they got the tape from the terrorists was to promise the terrorists a "fair shake." This video showed terrorists taking pot shots, assassinating US soldiers in cold blood. What are your thoughts as the Commander-in-Chief when you see this and when you hear about this?

THE PRESIDENT: My thoughts are that we face an enemy that will kill innocent people. They murder to achieve their objectives, and they use propaganda in order to do two things. One: proclaim their might, and secondly to discourage us. Obviously the idea of their propaganda being displayed is something that bothers me in the sense that I don't want the American people to become discouraged. One: I want them to understand the stakes in this war; and, two, that we're going to win this war and not to be discouraged about the violence and the propaganda that they see. Obviously, some of the violence is not propaganda, but these tapes that they put out are all aimed at shaking our confidence.

Osama Bin Laden himself has said that it's just a matter of time before the United States loses its will and retreats. Give me a second here, Rush, because I want to share something with you. I am deeply concerned about a country, the United States, leaving the Middle East. I am worried that rival forms of extremists will battle for power, obviously creating incredible damage if they do so; that they will topple modern governments, that they will be in a position to use oil as a tool to blackmail the West. People say, "What do you mean by that?" I say, "If they control oil resources, then they pull oil off the market in order to run the price up, and they will do so unless we abandon Israel, for example, or unless we abandon allies. You couple that with a country that doesn't like us with a nuclear weapon and people will look back at this moment and say, 'What happened to those people in 2006?' and those are the stakes in this war we face." On the one hand we've got a plan to make sure we protect you from immediate attack, and on the other hand we've got a long-term strategy to deal with these threats, and part of that strategy is to stay on the offense. Part of the strategy is to help young democracies like Lebanon and Iraq be able to survive against the terrorists and the extremists who are trying to crush their hopes, and part of the democracy is for a freedom movement, which will help create the conditions so that the extremists become marginalized and unable to recruit.

RUSH: Well, that is extremely visionary. One of the things, if I may make this personal, one of the many things I've admired about you is that you see down the road 20 or 30 years. You just illustrated that with your comment. What if down the road 20 years we look back to this time and with 20-20 hindsight realize we blew it. You're not, as far as it sounds to me, you're not going to let that happen. You're going to do whatever it takes to secure victory.

THE PRESIDENT: I am and I fully understand the nature of this enemy. One: they're great propagandists, and two: they truly believe they can cause us to retreat by inflicting enough damage, and three: they're lethal. But I also understand they have no vision; they have no ideology. I mean, they have an ideology, they just can't convince people that their ideology makes sense, and I also understand that we're inflicting damage on them. That we're on the hunt, that we're bringing them to justice; that if you're al-Qaeda you know the United States of America is breathing down your neck, and we will continue to do so so long as I'm the president -- and Iraq is a tough fight. The recent debate here on Iraq, some say Iraq is a "distraction" from the war on terror. My answer to them is, listen to Osama Bin Laden who says: "Our objective is to defeat America, which will disgrace America, which embolden the terrorists," which will then enable them, them being al-Qaeda and extremists, to have safe haven just like they had in Afghanistan -- and we're not going to do let them do it. No matter how tough it gets, the United States of America must remain firm and resolved to protect a generation of young Americans, and that's precisely what I'm going to do as your president and that's precisely what I'm telling the people on the campaign trail.

RUSH: Mr. President, we hear a lot of things from troops in Iraq, both troops that are there and troops who have returned. To a man and woman, they are shocked, they say, when they get back here, turn on the news, and look at the reporting of how things are going. They think there are tremendous successes that have taken place in Iraq. Not just governmentally over there, but military successes that aren't being reported, and it frustrates them. I think they're a large voting block, they and their families, and as they come back and watch I think they're going to be active in this election as well.

THE PRESIDENT: Let me say something about our troops, Rush. I am... I guess "amazed" is the proper word at how courageous our troops are, and I am amazed at the fact that they are so capable, and that they volunteer in the midst of this war to defend us, and these troops deserve all the support of the United States of America, and they understand as well as anybody that we are making progress in Iraq, and they know when their comrades are out there fighting that they're bringing enemies to justice. They see that firsthand. The enemy has got an advantage in that by killing innocent people it looks like they're winning, because it gets on our TV screens. We have taken a measured approach to talking about casualties, but I can assure your listeners: our troops are on the offense, and they're after an enemy. When they find the enemy and the enemy confronts, we win.

They can't beat us on the battlefield. The only way we can lose this is if we leave, and our troops are -- the other thing people say, "Well, you know, it's a long slug and therefore it's going to be hard to maintain morale in the military." One: it is going to be a tough fight, but I will tell you something. The morale in our military is high because these young men and women understand the stakes. Reenlistment rates are very high and recruitment rates are strong, which all says to me we've got an amazing country when we've got people who put on the uniform say, "Put me in. I want to go fight for this country."

RUSH: Yeah, and then they turn around and get insulted routinely. John Kerry is not the first. He's just the latest, Mr. President. We don't really have to focus on him. You've spoken about Senator Kerry. He's now trying to laugh this off by saying he was talking about you, but clearly he has a Vietnam era mind-set, back when we had a draft, that if you didn't have a college deferment you got drafted -- and that's his thinking on who comprises military members, that they're basically uneducated boobs, but it's not just Senator Kerry. We've got Senator Durbin who has impugned interrogators at Guantanamo Bay. Throughout this war effort some Democrats have done their best to impugn the people who are volunteering, offering their lives in sacrifice to defend this country. They have questioned their motives. They've questioned their backgrounds and so forth -- and frankly, Mr. President, the American people are outraged by this because John Kerry is just the latest. This is not the first.

THE PRESIDENT: Anybody who is in a position to serve this country ought to understand the consequences of words, and our troops deserve the full support of people in government. People here may not agree with my decision. I understand that. But what I don't understand is any diminution of their sacrifice. We've got incredible people in our military, and they deserve full praise and full support of this government. Secondly, what they deserve is a plan for victory, and we have a plan for victory. Our victory, as you know, is really to help the Iraqis win, to help the 12 million people, to help Iraq realize the dreams of 12 million people who voted. To help the political process and help the security process and help the economic process and we're doing just that. It's not easy work, because there's an enemy that still tries to derail the process. They're trying to foment sectarian violence, and on the other hand it's necessary work. My problem with many of the Democrat voices in Washington is they have no plan for victory.

This is an essential part of the war on terror, and I believe responsible leaders must come up with a plan for victory in order to achieve peace, and yet the only plan I hear is, one: let's get out of Iraq before the job is done -- which would be a disaster for a future generation of Americans. Getting out of Iraq, Rush, all that would do is embolden an enemy and dash the hopes of millions who count on the United States to help them secure freedom, and getting out of Iraq would make the country less secure. One of the interesting things about this war that is different from previous wars, is in previous wars you could leave the battlefield and the enemy would stay close to the battlefield. In this war, if you leave the battle, the enemy follows us home to America -- and that's one of the lessons of September the 11th, and that's one of the reasons why we will win in Iraq. I repeat: the only reason we could lose in Iraq is if we leave, and, therefore, we've got kids sacrificing in Iraq, and when they hear politicians say, "Get out before the job is done," that's discouraging to them, and it's discouraging to the Iraqis, and it's encouraging to the enemy. That's why my voice is so loud in saying to our troops: "What you're doing is noble and important and you're going to win and history will look back and thank you for your sacrifices."

-- November 1, 2006 4:10 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

AlL,

Also(as a reminder), Lyad Allawi - Former President of Iraq confronted Sayyed Muqtada Al Sadr and ordered usa forces to take out the militia he heads up.

Lyad Allawi also confronted the Takfiri theology that adheres to denouncing fellow Muslims as infidels.

This is when he developed problems in the 2004 election and lost due to Shiiti vote.

We seem to be seeing something in the works politically.

Laura

-- November 1, 2006 4:12 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

On my comments,

I would like to hear from some of our people in Iraq on the present situation. What are the people saying about the security sitation etc.

All the positions to be replaced are key positions. I am having a hard time thinking that they are all incompetent.

The interior ministry is in the intellengence gathering. They take care of insurgence people.

The defense ministry - goes without saying. I wish General Sada would at least answer one of my e-mails.

The education ministry- I just cant think of when this ministry was to be replaced. What is wrong with this person that Maliki would replace him?

The Oil Ministry- Mr. Al-Shahristani has posted many times with new media.

-He seems very competent.

-He has not been able to control insurgents from blowing up pipelines--but then, a ministry person is not security.

This position is about resources--financial at that that!

Does anyone know whether he is Shiiti or Sunni or Kurd?

Thoughts anyone?

Laura

-- November 1, 2006 5:09 PM ∞

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CYMRU001 wrote:

Hi everyone.

Just want to say thank-you for all the informative and educational posts.

I hope you all won't mind this but I am posting purely to act as a book mark!!

I am about 6 -7 hours in front of you here in the UK and have to spend ages each evening trying to get up to date!!!

-- November 1, 2006 6:15 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

The Democrats' Military Disdain
By Michelle Malkin
CNSNews.com Commentary
November 01, 2006

The Democrats' failed 2004 presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry, may have just sabotaged his party's highest hopes for the 2006 midterm elections. Karl Rove himself couldn't have engineered a better campaign reminder of the Democrats' utter lack of credibility when it comes to supporting, respecting and leading America's military.

Here is what Sen. Kerry told an audience of young people at a campaign event on the Pasadena City College campus on Monday held for losing California Democrat gubernatorial challenger Phil Angelides:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

And this man aspired to be our nation's 21/super st/nosupersub -century commander in chief with that Neanderthal 1960s attitude? Both a local NBC news affiliate reporter and a Pasadena Star-News reporter mentioned Kerry's statement without fully realizing the condescending slam against our, ahem, all-volunteer armed forces embedded in the remarks.

The Star-News did observe that the derisive comment was met with "a mixture of laughter and gasps." But it wasn't until after KFI-AM Los Angeles radio show host John Ziegler posted the audio on the Internet and a YouTube user posted video of the event that a firestorm broke out on the airwaves and across the right side of the blogosphere.

America has the best-trained, most professional, most well-educated military in the world. But the moonbats want only to hear the myths of the soldier-as-victim or the soldier-as-brutalizer or soldier-as-indentured servant.

Never mind that for every two volunteer recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods, as The Heritage Foundation recently reported. Never mind that 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education. Never mind that 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees; 8.5 percent have professional degrees; and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.

Kerry's response to the backlash from military families around the globe? An adviser admitted to the National Journal that his boss's botched warning to students was "mangled." But a Kerry press release instead attacked Rush Limbaugh, White House spokesman Tony Snow and "assorted right-wing nut-jobs" for the words that came out of his mouth and his mouth alone.

The Associated Press water-carrier for Kerry and the Dems, left-wing reporter Jennifer Loven, dutifully recycled the Democrat line that Kerry was really targeting President Bush, not the lazy, uneducated troops "stuck in Iraq."

Nonsense. The intent was clear enough for at least some in the audience to "gasp," as the local reporter on the scene described.

This is no isolated case of Democrat incompetence and insensitivity toward the military. Kerry's party is the party of Dick Durbin, who likened American interrogators and Gitmo military staff to Nazis, Soviet gulag operators and genocidal maniac Pol Pot.

Kerry's party is the party of Patty Murray, who praised Osama bin Laden's charity work with nary a nod to our men and women in uniform who have sailed and flown to the most far-flung regions of the world on reconstruction and humanitarian missions. Kerry's party is the party that approved of him tarring American troops as terrorizers in Iraq last year.

And Kerry's party is the party whose national party website couldn't even find an American soldier to illustrate a page dedicated to "Veterans and Military Families."

Can you trust a party with such entrenched disdain and contempt for the military to use that power well and wisely at a time of war? America made a choice in 2004. Two years later, the Democrats have said and done nothing to earn the nation's endorsement now.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=/Commentary/archive/200611/COM20061101a.html

-- November 1, 2006 6:35 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hi everybody, taking a quick look in to the site of complete insanity, warped minds and mental, spiritual and emotional disturbed individuals that I can associate with.

Sara,

I have a technical Bible question for you, you're probably the authority on this site on this.

A hwy in Colorado going into New Mexico, was named the terrible number 666. Ok, there was so much protest that they had to change the number on the hwy .

That's all nice and ducky and all that, here is the question, Somewhere in that book, there is a passage where it's told that you will be forgiven so and so many times over.

Sometime in my youth I added it up and ended up, as I remember, (please confirm, this is where it's getting sticky) to the number of 490.

Wouldn't that mean that the 491st time you're back in Devils territory?

Like the number they renamed the hwy, from 666 to 491.

The Dinar,

Wow seems to be a lot of movement on the Dinar now days, hope I can cash in my Dinars, get a Russian mail order bride, buy myself a smaller European country, and finally afford to join Scientology.

That will be a quick fix for the spiritual, bodily and possession side of life.

Money doesn't make happiness, but it sure helps.

Carl,

Had a big laugh when reading your posts, but I can't be here too often now days, so forgive me for falling out of sync with the world. Yes, the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster), is in his bottle right now, I have the secret instruction book only him and me knows, and it's the key to life itself.

Sara, I know you would just laugh.

Carole,

Ask Carl to explain.

Short time, gotta go, would like to develop this to another laugh fest but my master is pulling in my reins, and we have to make Houston before tomorrow, so see ya all.

-- November 1, 2006 6:56 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Interesting study in contrasts, lately, between John Kerry, one-time Democratic, presidential hopeful, and President Bush. Mr. Bush thinks very long term. Rush Limbaugh picked up on that. Mr. Bush was recently interviewed by right wing columnists in the National Review Magazine. The President kept talking about what the middle east would be like, in 20 years. (he also mentioned this in Rush Limbaugh's interview) He hoped to help the moderates dominate in the middle east.

How can you help someone if you are not there to help them? I guess you can't. That's why I believe it is likely that the Americans plan to be in Iraq, on bases, withdrawn from cities and towns, eventually, for the long term, as Oakie indicated.

Another reason to be very optimistic about the dinar. Eventual long term stability will bring prosperity. The dinar, it's coming back.

It's interesting that John Kerry recently said the President ignored history, in going into Iraq. I suppose there is some truth in that. I don't think most Americans knew how intense and warped the psychology of the region was, until they went in.

But John Kerry's vision of history seems to resemble a rear view mirror. Oh, he could probably accurately describe some of the long term historical problems in the region.

But would he offer solutions, or hope? I don't think so. I haven't seen it.

John Kerry doesn't think long term, into the future. A man like that should never be leader, in times of war, or conflict.

History runs two ways. It does not just go one way. It goes forward, as well as backward. We live in history, and we make it, big and small. John Kerry, despite all his "learning", does not understand this. John Kerry seems trapped in a backward, hopeless view of history.

President Bush sees the future, and tries to shape it, to help world peace and prosperity. I think he will succeed.

Who do you think will be remembered, in one hundred years?

I think it will be President Bush.

If, in the long term, democracy and prosperity take hold in that region of the world, expect your great-grandchildren to look at President Bush's face, on Mount Rushmore.

And John Kerry? John Kerry will soon be forgotten, as a negative, small man who never had the courage to seize the day.

We are all betting on history, on this site. I think we are right, and will profit from it.

The huge future increased demand for oil, over my probable lifetime, also fits under the category, where is history going?

Worldwide demand for oil will be absolutely enormous, in the next ten years, and more. There's no doubt about that. A lot of that oil will come from Iraq. The President is ensuring Americans have a reliable source of petroleum to run their enormous economy in the future. In doing so, he'll make dinar holders very well off.

Hold on to those dinars. Buy some more, if you can. Buy some for your kids, or grandkids, if you have any. More money is always better, come payoff day.

Sign me,
Insane, warped, emotionally disturbed optimist.

P.S. Roger, hope you get your Natasha.

-- November 1, 2006 11:01 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

What was John Kerry thinking? or was he?

2 options

1. He itended to suggest that the troops are uneducated and serving because they are society's outcasts

If he meant to suggest this then he would have conclude "I resemble that remark" because he served in Vietnam.

2. He intended his remark as a jab at Bush to suggest that he is an inarticulate boob.

John Kerry with his lower IQ and lower GPA from college is guilty of everything that he accused the president of being by botching the comment so badly.

I don't see any way for Kerry to turn this into a win

I am not active duty but I served a tour in Iraq and have a college degree. I was happy to have the opportunity to serve my country and never felt that I had to do it because I didn't have anywhere else to go or somehow squandered my opportunities in life. (unless you consider that I failed to marry money as our inarticulate boob)

I really appreciate the troops sense of humor on the banner. I gotta print that one off.

As I listen to politicians I realize that we don't elect the sharpest tools in the shed but I can't help thinking that the responsibility comes back to American people who elect and re-elect these people time after time. I wonder when people will wake up and put some responsible adults in political office.

Napoleon - Waterloo
Ted Kennedy - Chap-a-quitic
John Kerry - Pasdena

Only one above has a snowballs chance of becoming president and he's dead. Maybe there's hope for the American people afterall.

Go troops!!!!
Go Dinar!!!!!!!

-- November 2, 2006 7:57 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Unless you get Emails from Newsmax then you may not have seen this.

Chuck Swindoll once said in this world do not expect justice but should you happen to stumble across it then take time to enjoy it.

POWs LAWSUIT COULD FORCE KERRY TO COME
CLEAN ON VIETNAM ‘WAR CRIMES’ CHARGES

When John Kerry slandered an entire generation of men who fought in Vietnam he branded them as "war criminals." Today, much of the same thing is being said about our young men and women in Iraq.

Now, a lawsuit filed in Philadelphia’s Court of Common Pleas will test the very foundation of Kerry’s anti-war persona for the first time. It isn’t dubious medals or Kerry’s disputed service record in Vietnam that is being called into question. This time Kerry may finally be forced to answer for the events that launched his public career, one that made him an anti-war hero for many American liberals and a turncoat for millions of Vietnam veterans.

The lawsuit challenges the basis, the factual accuracy of then Lt. (j.g.) Kerry’s acrimonious testimony before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971. It was there Kerry’s public career was catapulted with his now ubiquitous portrayal of American soldiers as murderers, rapists and torturers "who ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam . . . [and] razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan."

For the anti-war, anti-American protesters, the American soldiers are the "terrorists," and the enemies are the victims of a barbaric U.S. military which tortures and murders defenseless civilians.

That false premise, one of the most vicious and enduring smears spawned by Kerry 35 years ago, will also be put to the test once Kerry’s true "Band of Brothers" are put under oath in a Philadelphia courtroom.

The background to this lawsuit is long and complex, but even a condensed version is rich in irony and poetic justice.

It had it roots in 2004 with the documentary Stolen Honor: Wounds that Never Heal. Many may recall the film, although it is probably best known for not being seen, suppressed after Sinclair Broadcasting Company courageously announced it was going to air the documentary in its entirety. Thanks to Kerry and his liberal colleagues in the Senate and their enablers in the mainstream media, Sinclair was browbeaten into withdrawing the film, its broadcast license threatened by a Kerry campaign manager in 2004. The film’s producer, Carlton Sherwood, a Pulitzer Prize and Peabody Award-winning investigative reporter, interviewed former POWs for the documentary.

I was among those whom Sherwood, a decorated Marine combat veteran himself, asked to participate in Stolen Honor. I was a POW for nearly six years, held in North Vietnam prison camps, including the notorious Hanoi Hilton, a place of unimaginable horrors — torture, beatings, starvation and mind-numbing isolation. When Kerry branded us "war criminals," he handed our captors all the justification they needed to carry out their threats to execute us. Thanks to Kerry, Jane Fonda and their comrades in the anti-war movement, our captivity was prolonged by years. The communists in Hanoi and Moscow couldn’t have had a better press agent to spread their anti-American propaganda.

To guarantee Stolen Honor would never be seen by anyone — not even theatre-goers — the producer was slapped with a libel and defamation lawsuit.

That lawsuit was filed by a long-time anti-war disciple of the Massachusetts Senator. He was one of Kerry's key war crimes "witnesses," one of several on whom Kerry claims he based his Senate testimony.

The lawsuit put a unique spin on the definition of defamation, claiming that Stolen Honor had damaged the public reputations of himself, Kerry and others by simply quoting their own words and criticisms of America during the Vietnam war!

The POWs and the wives of POWs who participated in Stolen Honor refused to abandon the facts conveyed in the film. For some of us, it was the first time since our release by the Communists in 1973 that we were able to have our voices publicly heard, to tell our stories about the consequences of Kerry’s treachery. In 2005, we formed a nonprofit organization, the Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation (VVLF), to gather records, documents and other materials to form a fact-based, educational repository for students and scholars of Vietnam history and to tell the true story of the American soldiers in Vietnam. The VVLF’s mission is "to set the record straight, factually, about Vietnam and those who fought there."

For our efforts, we were promptly sued by two long-time anti-war Kerry followers and VVAW members. It was clear that Kerry not only wanted to punish us for Stolen Honor; he intended to use surrogates to sue us into permanent silence and financial ruin.

Forced to spend huge sums to defend ourselves from these frivolous lawsuits, we have filed a countersuit against these Kerry surrogates and intend to reveal the truth about the lawsuits and their sponsors. We believe that we can prove that the purpose of nearly two years of litigation was to protect John Kerry, to drain us financially and spiritually, and to prevent us from setting the record straight.

You can help our cause — JUST GO HERE NOW!

At stake is ultimately nothing less than the integrity of the American military in Vietnam, the honor of the men who served their country, the nobility of those who gave their lives, and the truth of America’s history in Vietnam. Until or unless we do correct the existing record, the American military may never be free of the myths and smears of Vietnam, its honor and integrity cleansed as it fights to defend freedom at home and around the world.

Our mission is hardly over. We hope you will join us in fighting this battle . . . for our soldiers, then and now. For more information about Vietnam, the foregoing litigation, or to make a donation, please access the VVLF website now — Go Here Now.

Col. George E. "Bud" Day
Director and President,
Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation

Col. George E. "Bud" Day, USAF (Ret.,) was a POW in North Vietnam for five years, seven months and 13 days. He served in three wars (WWII, Korea, and Vietnam) and earned the Medal of Honor. He is the Air Force’s most decorated living veteran. He is the Director and President of the Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation, Inc., an organization created to better educate and inform the public about the Vietnam War, its events, its history, and the men and women who sacrificed to serve their country.

Support Our Important Cause — Go Here Now.

-- November 2, 2006 8:45 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Chris,

Thank you so much for the information on VVLF.

I could not find the website Go Here Now. So, I just looked up VVLF.

There home page has incredible down loads of actual recordings of Jane Fonda, and the likes of her from the Viet Nam era.

Sean Hannity has a ferious contempt for Kerry, and rightly so. I am going to try to get this information to him, while he is so intent on exposing to the American people all he can about Kerry.

If a couple million people can get involved enough to send even $1.00 to this VVLF, they would be able to meet this law sit and cournter law suit head on, and give Kerry the funeral he deserves.

If the VVLF vendicates one soldier who suffered or gave his/her life (as a direct result from the anti-war efforts), it will have accomplished much.

Chris, could you clarify the "Go Here Now" reference?

Thanks again, Chris

-- November 2, 2006 9:56 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Do you know if the US buys any oil from Canada?

Carole

-- November 2, 2006 10:00 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

Why Do you so foolishly think that your " feedback" inflicts some kind of "element of surprise"to me. Or I give you information that gives you
" something for you to play with"

If you don't know that the Quija Board is used after and sometimes before many of the Wiccan MAGIK rituals, then, it is you that is clueless, not me.

The "do no harm" edicts, this ancient cultic religion spews out, is as deceptive as the snake in the Garden of Eden who deceived Eve into believing that if she ate of the forbidden fruit, no harm would come to her.....

I must say that I am intrigued, entertained, or whatever, that you and your burly friend, Roger, would be taken up with a religion that emulates the female gender over the male.....

I must admit that it takes a whole heck of a lot more faith to follow the Wiccan way of life than to follow Christ. Just as I believe that it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer in God.

Your ASSUMING virtues are accomplishing it's goals.

I strongly suggest taking a Tylenol suppository for your admitted headache. :} If that doesn't help ,wear your pentagan right side up today.

-- November 2, 2006 10:43 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, yeah, the United States buys a lot of oil products from Canada. More than you get from Saudi Arabia. In fact, Canada is the top U.S. crude oil supplier, at 1,633,000 barrels a day. You get more oil from OPEC than Canada, but that's a bunch of countries combined.

I'm surprised Americans don't take more interest in Canadian oil. There are 175 billion barrels of crude oil in Alberta, starting to be developed, in the "Tar Sands", up at the top of the province, in Fort McMurray. It's a bit expensive to get out, but the supplier is reliable. I know Dick Cheney was scheduled to come have a look at it, about a year ago, but something came up, and he cancelled. Some Americans companies are up here, but so are the Chinese, competing with them for oil development contracts.

-- November 2, 2006 11:31 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Carole,

"Go here now" website

https://www.vvlf.org/donate.php

-- November 2, 2006 11:42 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

Jesus was using a superlative when he spoke of the number 490.
One of the disciples was so tired of forgiving someone who kept on saying "sorry" that, in exasperation, he asked Jesus if he actually had to forgive this fellow SEVEN times in one day? (Which appeared to him to be an awful lot of times.)
Jesus' reply was "seventy times seven times".. using a superlative.. sort of an astronomical number of times someone could possibly sin in one day.
It wasn't intended to be a mathematical number where you could exceed it and head over into unforgiving territory.

As for the 666 number.. I find it sad some Christians are so "superstitious" about it.
It is a number and using it on a highway doesn't curse it.
It is used to denote the antiChrist in the Bible, but a highway was not in view as the satanic equivalent.

As for the "secret instruction book" of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.. chuckle.
Fortunately Christianity is not a religion of secret councils such as that but, as Jesus said at the end of His life, just before they crucified Him:

Joh 18:20 Jesus answered him, "I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.

Jesus Christ's teaching/religion is not meant to be secret.. but available to even children to understand.
Though some things, while openly proclaimed, are harder to understand.
Often, careful comparison of Scriptures and interpreting within the context often explain its meaning.
It is quite easy to read in our 20th century mindset into their culture and times rather than seeing it as it was understood back then.

Tim Bitts;

Agree on your statement "John Kerry seems trapped in a backward, hopeless view of history." And with that "hopeless" viewpoint, his (and the Democrats') view that the only way out of the conflict is to "cut and run." (Bringing those who whupped ya after ya to give you some more.. right onto American soil, as President Bush is careful to point out.)

Chris;

Whatever Kerry was thinking.. it wasn't truth or good that came out of his mouth.
Only a corrupt tree hatches such corrupt fruit.
I am looking forward to that part on the article you quoted:

For the anti-war, anti-American protesters, the American soldiers are the "terrorists," and the enemies are the victims of a barbaric U.S. military which tortures and murders defenseless civilians.

That false premise, one of the most vicious and enduring smears spawned by Kerry 35 years ago, will also be put to the test once Kerry’s true "Band of Brothers" are put under oath in a Philadelphia courtroom.

I will be happy when we finally have a real accounting of the truth on the history books.

Sara.

-- November 2, 2006 12:09 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq offers massive trade opportunities
Bahrain Tribune - 02/11/2006

There is a huge opportunity for investors and developers to participate in Iraq's massive reconstruction projects as the government has set aside a budget of more than $33 billion for the 2007, in addition to more than $18 billion committed by the international donors. This has made Iraq the most attractive country in the region given the magnitude and size of investments for the ongoing infrastructure and construction projects, Ghassan Muhsen Hussein, Iraqi Ambassador said yesterday.

The Ambassador, who was speaking at a Press conference to launch the Gulf Iraqi Expo "GIX" in Bahrain - the first trade show ever organised by the Iraqi government outside the country, said that he was optimistic that exhibitions and conference would highlight the hidden potentials of the emerging Iraq.

The GIX that will be held from March 24 to 26 is targeting 600 exhibitors in different sectors of trade from the Gulf and Middle East. Iraqi Ministry of Trade - State Company for Iraqi Fairs and I-vision for PR and media in association with Magnum Events and Exhibitions Management MEEM has announced GIX.

Wafa said hundreds of exhibitors from around the GCC countries and the world will participate in this year's Gulf Iraqi Expo.

Murtada Aldin, CEO I Vision events and media said that there are 50 Iraqi companies that have signed to take part in the event. "Iraq has a new vision where the expectation from the private sector is to build the country. Besides the oil industry the other areas such as the private sector should contribute in the growth of Iraq."

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093132109

-- November 2, 2006 12:11 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Foreign banks in Iraq soon
Bahrain Tribune - 02/11/2006

The central bank of Iraq is considering licensing several foreign banks to operate within the country, mostly in the region of Kurdistan, Sinan Al Shabibi, the bank's governor, said yesterday.

"There have been some applications to operate in northern region of Kurdistan, but their eyes are on Baghdad eventually," Al Shabibi told Zawya Dow Jones in an interview.

"Because of the security situation, most join forces with local banks. There are a lot of banks that have expressed their interest Iraq, but they are waiting for the right time," said Al Shabibi.

Al Shabibi hopes that Iraq's banking sector will be strengthened as it opens up to foreign banks, as they bring capital, modern banking systems, technology and management.

The government is also pushing for 25 private banks to merge.

Al Shabibi said the central bank is currently succeeding in its fight against inflation.

"We are using the interest rate and we sell our own bills to skim liquidity. The inflation rate now is 51 per cent, down from 70 per cent previously. Whether it will continue to go down, we will have to see," he said.

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093132110

-- November 2, 2006 12:17 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Thanks Tim.

\The reason I asked, because my financial advisor has encouraged me to invest in the "big Oil" companies in Canada. Supposedly their profits are astronomical!

I haven't done much foreign investing, except for the dinar of course. ;}

To All:

As I sit and begin to prepare my ballot for the coming election next week, I am amazed at all the information that has come my way via US mail.

Here in the US many have come to realize that the American people's will is very much thwarted, reversed and just plain ignored by our judicial appointees. Especially by appelate courts.

Many think tank conservative groups have accused the courts of setting policy, very inappropriately, and undermining the intents of the Framers of our great Constituion.

I sit here with a 190 page "booklet" presented to the electorate in the State of California. It has page after page giving detail to every Candidate and Proposition assisting in helping the voter to make a wise choice respective to their own ideological and political views.

UNTIL WE GET TO THE VOTING OF JUDGES!!!

Not one word of endorsement, or rebuttal, or history of their records or ANYTHING!!!

These appointees who have so much power are getting a free ride on our ballots.

SOOOOOOOOO! I decided to look them all up.

You would be shocked, as I was.

I would encourage all who plan on participating in this election to find websites that will reveal who your Judicialcandiates are.

In California the website most beneficial and precise is:

www.voterguide.ss.ca.gov

Then click on the link for "Justices"

I was amazed at how many appointees former Gov. Dukemejian got to appoint.

With all due respect, this man was mentally incompetent to dress himself in the morning. NO wonder this state is so screwd up!!

More than anything I would encourage all, in honor of our fighting troops,( now and throughout history)to get out and vote.

They have and are fighting so that we are and will continue to have the freedoms available to us to go safely to a voting booth.

Think of what the Iraqi's
had to risk to cast their votes. They were a brave and committed people. Let us all commend and validate their efforts by showing them how valuable a single vote is.

And again,even though all the political pundits who have continuously pointed out the power of the the courts, and yet have done nothing to arm the American voter to cast informed votes for this election, please check them out for yourselves.

This will help weed out the subversive judges and take away their free ride and blank check on mandating public policy and robbing the will of the people.

-- November 2, 2006 12:19 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: Alberta itself will be the largest source of imported American crude oil, within 10 years, so your advisor may be on to something.

-- November 2, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

HE DA MAN?

Here's a thought: If the security situation in Iraq does not improve soon, maybe the United States should impose a strongman or junta on Iraq?

If the United States finds it needs a strongman there, to impose order, it doesn't have to look far, to find a good one. Why not just bring Saddam back to power?

There are numerous advantages to this idea. First of all, Saddam is currently unemployed. He has a good resume. He has already proven he can govern Iraq as a strongman. He's a snappy dresser.

He has a great deal of support among the Sunni population, who are the strongest supporters of the insurgency.

Moreover, unlike other Iraqi political figures, Saddam knows how to deal with the Bush administration: He and Donald Rumsfeld are old negotiating buddies, going back twenty-five years.

Furthermore, Saddam could serve the same function now that he did in the 1980s: as a bulwark against the expanding power of Iran.

Maybe he's ready to come back? He's rested, he's lost weight, he looks fit, he's ready. He'll be happy to get a "Get out of jail free" card. Maybe he'll be a good boy now.

Saddam is a bastard, you say? Saddam is a sonnofabitch? Yeah, but he'll restore order. And if the Americans can leave a couple of bases in the middle of nowhere in Iraq, ready to bomb his country, if he gets out of line, then he definitely will be a good little boy. Yes, he's a sonnafabitch, but if we handle it properly, he can be OUR sonnofabitch!

HE DA MAN?

-- November 2, 2006 1:15 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Tim,
I don't know if you read a posting of mine a few weeks back, around the time Roger was inferring that I could be a Nazi, but I stated some thoughts about " we should have left Saddam in power."

I hadn't thought it through to the points that you have made, which I think are provocative and once again brilliant.

YOu know we knew him and had handled him for a very long time. Under the conditions that you stated we could have accompished a lot more. And with your suggested bombs in the middle of no where in Iraq, it would have stopped the slaughter of Iraqi civilians and given them the protection they needed.

Oh Well, hindsight, and the 20/20 thing.....

I can't shake the memory of Saddam shaking his fist when he was caught, saying something like..." you will see, you think these people are so easy to govern..."

Who, better than him would have known?

He was his own very worst enemy, and blew all the chances that he had to put Iraq in a very prominent place in the middle east.

Fools are born everyday, and unfortunately some fools are brought into governing powers, that ultimately harmfully shape the world we live in.

I am just so grateful that Kerry never won the presidency---can you imagine what we would be discussing today?????????(shutter shutter shutter).

-- November 2, 2006 2:20 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Tim Britts

I vote for the little Venezuelan dictator Shove-ez.

He can bounce at the podium better than Saddam and smell the sulfer emminating from his rear end( a side effect of drinking too much of his favorite beverage).

Mr. Citgo can do it all!!!

He's doing his own people AND cleaning his toilet bowl

Such talent should not be wasted.

-- November 2, 2006 2:27 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Aw....com'on you guys. How about sending Castro over there via med-evac. He still has enough 10 hour boring speeches in him to drive all the bad guys nuts.

Then, when they all start running out of Baghdad, the marines can catch them and drop kick their @$$ across the border.

What a plan!!! What a country!!!

-- November 2, 2006 3:10 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Hi All:

While still positive about the future prospects of the Dinar the current situation in Iraq continues to look bleak. It is my hope some order can be restored once the elections are over.

Sometime back, we discussed the affect of a coup to overthrow Malaki. After some additional thinking, I am leaning toward perserving the constitutional government, thereby leaving Malaki in power.

Any overthrow could cause the country to degenerate further into chaos. While potential investors are certainly drawn to Iraq its instability will continue to be the factor perventing long term investment and stagnation in the Dinar exchange rate. Therefore, the long awaited revaluation we all hope for will continue to elude us. A peg or Forex is still sometime away.

In contrast, It is good news that the inflation rate is down from 70% to 50%. Let us hope it continues to happen. Sara has posted some positive news concerning the banking sector there.

The path President Bush has taken America down in Iraq if successful will have lasting effect upon that part of the world.

Because of the Bush Doctrine, I envision a peaceful and prosperous Iraq, oil a plenty flowing from its ground. A U.S. military base providing security to the entire region. Iran and Syria at bay. Israel secure in its own existence. The vision I have for Iraq, is it a possibility or can it be reality? We all shall see.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 2, 2006 10:40 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From iraqieconomy.org

The Least Accountable Regime in the Middle East November 11, 2006 - American military spending on Iraq is now approaching $8 billion a month. Accounting for inflation, this is half as much again as the average monthly cost of the Vietnam War; the total spent so far has long surpassed the cost of the entire Apollo space programme. Three and a half months of occupation costs the equivalent of Iraq's estimated oil revenues for the current financial year. We now know, thanks to the leaked report of James Baker's Iraq Study Group, that if US troops withdrew, they would in all probability be redeployed to neighbouring countries, increasing the already massive expenditure and inevitably threatening new arenas of conflict. Here's an unimaginable alternative. If the US army left the region, and if the money was instead handed out to every Iraqi man, woman and child, they would each receive more than $300 a month.
They need it: Iraq has run out of reconstruction money. The funds in the so-called Development Fund for Iraq - some $20 billion of Iraqi money - were spent by Paul Bremer's Coalition Provisional Authority in the first year of the occupation. The US Embassy in Baghdad has spent virtually all of the $18.4 billion that Congress appropriated for "rebuilding" the country; $5.6 billion of it was used to run the embassy, promote American "values" and set up the new armed forces and police. Most of the American money never even gets to Iraq. The bulk of it has gone to American consultants, or into American contractors' international bank accounts.
"Most of the projects planned in sewerage, irrigation, drainage and dams have been cancelled," the auditors of the US Special Inspector General for Iraqi Reconstruction (SIGIR) report. Others have been "descoped". A 238 km canal brings fresh water to Basra from the Gharraf river, a tributary of the Tigris. The long neglected banks of the canal are crumbling. There was a plan to line its entire length with concrete; the idea now is merely to repair one badly damaged 20 km stretch. This is what "descoped" means. In July, SIGIR could find no evidence of emergency repairs or even routine maintenance. According to the increasingly implausible State Department, Iraq's basic utilities - its electricity, oil production and water supply - have reached standards close to or above those under Saddam. The US General Accountability Office (GAO), however, says these claims are meaningless, since they are based on numbers of completed projects, without indicating how much has been done of what was originally planned.
One thing is certain: the Coalition has created and fostered the least accountable and least transparent regime in the Middle East. It's impossible to say whether it's also the most corrupt, because so little is known about how Iraq's ministers spend their government's revenue. The US Embassy says it's trying to find out, but it hasn't had much success. Paul Bremer handed over $8.8 billion in cash to the interim government in the first year of occupation; it has never been accounted for. American auditors are also still in the dark about Iraq's reconstruction budget for the two years that followed: another $14 billion. "SIGIR has no further information about how much of these funds has been expended." Iraqis don't know either, since there are no meaningful public accounts.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 2, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Carole and Tom:

I don't know if your comments concerning Saddam were of the tongue-in-cheek variety but I subscribe to the idea that he may be the ultimate solution for Iraq.

While our intentions in Iraq were noble and generous, we just don't understand those people and Saddam does. With the numerous hot-spots in the world and the numerous cases of evil dictators and down-trodden people, why did we select Iraq to liberate and force democracy upon?

I am a die-hard Republican but I believe that President Bush had a personal agenda in Iraq-to avenge his father's failed promises to the Iraqi people. I do not believe that we have any long range plans for the oil in that Country that will insure that we will have an uninterrupted supply for the future.

I do not believe that we should have unilaterally attacked that country because of the WMD and later change our goal to "free Iraq". With that said, I totally support our fighting forces in that country-GOD bless those brave soldiers who carry out their orders against a hostile unknown enemy.

I have 23 million Dinars but I will sacrifice my investment to see stability in Iraq and our soldiers headed home.

-- November 2, 2006 11:40 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Carole and Tom:

I don't know if your comments concerning Saddam were of the tongue-in-cheek variety but I subscribe to the idea that he may be the ultimate solution for Iraq.

While our intentions in Iraq were noble and generous, we just don't understand those people and Saddam does. With the numerous hot-spots in the world and the numerous cases of evil dictators and down-trodden people, why did we select Iraq to liberate and force democracy upon?

I am a die-hard Republican but I believe that President Bush had a personal agenda in Iraq-to avenge his father's failed promises to the Iraqi people. I do not believe that we have any long range plans for the oil in that Country that will insure that we will have an uninterrupted supply for the future.

I do not believe that we should have unilaterally attacked that country because of the WMD and later change our goal to "free Iraq". With that said, I totally support our fighting forces in that country-GOD bless those brave soldiers who carry out their orders against a hostile unknown enemy.

I have 23 million Dinars but I will sacrifice my investment to see stability in Iraq and our soldiers headed home.

-- November 2, 2006 11:42 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Rob,

Your ramblings are welcome, by me anyway.

I sense you are a bit heavy hearted right now. Can't say that I blame you.

May be tomorrow someone somewhere in this whole middle east mess will have some better news to offer the world.

Keep the faith!!

Carole

-- November 3, 2006 2:56 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Extremist Religious Militant Intolerance.. who wants it?

Now that you have finished refuting what you perceive as Carl's supposed religious position (but I know Carl better and know it is not), Carole, may I remind you (and the board) that if the Democrats gain control in the upcoming elections and force the US to withdraw its troops (point me to a real assurance they won't do that, if they have the ability to do so, when so many of them advocate for it openly and Kerry pays all the expenses of Sheehan:
Cindy Sheehan, Paid By Kerry Campaign? Authors Say Yes on Fox News - http://newsbusters.org/node/8468 ).. IF the Democrats gain the power they crave and force the US to withdraw, the extremist terrorists will not ask if you are a Hindu, Buddhist, Moderate Muslim (or Muslim of the wrong type), Wiccan, Christian, Jewish, Atheist or any other religious group or affiliation when they follow the troops home onto US soil. They will still shoot or bomb you and your loved ones dead - down to the innocent babe in its mother's arms - without mercy because you are AMERICAN (or part of what they label "The Christian West") and won't submit to their interpretation of the Koran and their imam's preaching from their local mosque. We are dealing with extremist religious militant intolerance, and while the Democrats gleefully convene tons of "inquiries", wasting the government's time on frivolities, Rome will burn.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125715 - What would the Democrats Do? (Newsweek article)

Not to mention it won't be a good move to help the Iraqi people (pulling out) or the fortunes of the Dinar investors.
As Rob N so graciously summarized it:

Because of the Bush Doctrine, I envision a peaceful and prosperous Iraq, oil a plenty flowing from its ground. A U.S. military base providing security to the entire region. Iran and Syria at bay. Israel secure in its own existence. The vision I have for Iraq, is it a possibility or can it be reality? We all shall see.

I think that vision is the better choice to allow to have a shot at making the grade over the cut and run Democrat strategy - for all our sakes.

Another point a friend pointed out to me concerning Kerrry's comments, even if MSM says that people shouldn't blame the Democrats because of Kerry's comments, I think people should keep in mind that he represented the Democrats in the last election as REPRESENTATIVE of their entire group, so that they would have made him President and gladly have followed his orders and viewpoint in that capacity. Kerry (with all his views) was truly "their man" in the last election. Backing away from him as a mere obscure Democrat whose opinions mean nothing to the party is trying to overcome a blunder which exposed the tender underside of what Democrats really ARE and truly believe about the troops. It was a Freudian slip by the man the Democrats would have made the leader over the country if the American people had given them the chance to do so. And they had to have known EXACTLY where he stood on such issues, even as GOP know where President Bush stands on any issue, before voting for him. If the American people reconsider their decision now in this upcoming election, they will see how giving Kerry and his people more power will hamstring and hurt all they were hopeful they'd achieve when they elected President Bush in the last election. Now is not the time for the American people to lose their nerve, just because their face is bloody and they are tired of being in the boxing ring. Leaving the ring will only be seen as a declaration of the opponents being victorious, leaving the Iraqi people "hung out to dry."

As for the idea of Saddam ruling the country again - after his trial and conviction of crimes against humanity, you would put a man as evil as Hitler back into power? Worse, it is like putting Hitler back into power over a country of Jews. I cannot fathom your lack of moral courage or understanding of right and wrong. Nor your glib viewpoint that the good and moderate Iraqi people would not pay in blood for such folly. It is homicidal, if not genocidal, in my view. The troops who are there in Iraq have posted often on this board what wonderful people the majority of them are. You would consign them back under that murderous tyrant - endorsing a man who called up the high school to get girls to molest, as Laura posted? War is evil, but the idea of returning the country of Iraq to such repression is worse than war. The blood shed has been in the hope of freedom, and like the famous poem Flander's Fields says:

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch, be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields

I pray the American people will vote against the Democrats who would pull out and destroy all the hopes of the Iraqi people and break faith with the dead who throw the torch to the living in hope they will fight on to victory. I pray those brave and valorous dead did not die in vain.. And perish the thought of Saddam ever ruling there again, dear Lord Jesus.

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 8:25 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

You are so right on all points. I guess some of us get desperate looking for some possible to solutions to an impossible situation.
Saddam will never return to power, he is toast.

Remeber, I said if he was under a bomb threat if he misbehaved....

I know it was delerious thinking---sorry!!

You are 100% right about if the Demos get in control. I am so worried, though. I wished I could just go to sleep and wake up after the elections,,,, but I can't cause I am so busy helpiong with the GOP campaigning.

We need to be in feverent prayer. I truly believe that is what brought Bush to victory!!

By the way, don't think that Kerry made any kind of a slip. He was in the process of attempting to poison the minds of our college youth and recruit more to his way of anti-american thinking. I guess he thinks our youth are of the same chaacter as in the 60's. Just not so!! He forgot we have a volunteer corps of young men and women fighting ... also choosing Pasadena tothrow daggards at anyone conservative, was really a mistake or gamble that he took.

Your message to this board needs to go out to everyone you and others know.

The power fo the internet is our most dynamic and effective tool( except of course for prayer)

Srry, but Carl has given me little to no reason to hold him in high esteem as you do.
Obviously, you must know something that I don't.

Have a blessed day!

-- November 3, 2006 10:58 AM ∞

---

Anthony R wrote:

I don't think it was prayer that Got GWB elected, I think it was Jeb cooking the ballots in FL, but that is another discussion.

-- November 3, 2006 11:02 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

If they can manage to get agreement on the HCL....that will be a monumental step forward. This truly is the "big money" law they've been killing each other for.
==============================================================================
New Iraq oil law by end of 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baghdad, 03 November 2006 (TradeArabia)
A policy committee hammering out a draft new oil law for Iraq now has only one issue left to resolve and the legislation should be enacted by the end of the year, Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih said.

He also said projections of a doubling by 2010 of Iraqi oil exports, now at 1.6 million barrels per day, and of output to 6 million bpd from 2.3 million bpd were 'conservative figures' in his view.

Salih said the committee, which he expected to meet in a couple of weeks, still had to agree on provisions governing whether development contracts with oil companies could be signed at regional or national level.

'I am hopeful we will be able to bring the group together on this matter,' Salih said.

-- November 3, 2006 11:02 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil, I was trying to be tongue in cheek and provocative.

-- November 3, 2006 11:26 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Carole:

I do have a heavy heart, Iraq is a mess. I believe GWB and his administration has a similar vision for a peaceful and prosperous Iraq. The fact remains it is a mess.

Once the insurgency is crushed and the militas disbanded(particularly Sadr)this will go along way in helping Iraq move toward peace. If the peace can come then prosperity will fall into place.

All:

Do we think that $.75 is a realistic revaluation? At this exchange rate would not the Iraqi government quickly become insolvent? The scenario where I could see this type of revaluation may be after oil output reaches 6 million barrels per day in 2010. Just thinking outloud. Comments are welcome.

-- November 3, 2006 12:28 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Anthony,

I remember when Jeb was trying to cook the ballots. He couldn't find a pot big enough and the microwave kept burning them. I saw this discussed on a TV episode of Jerry Springer who interviewed Al Frankin when they featured "Amtrak bag handlers who care for the Gorillas". Al had the inside track on this.

You are correct that GWB didn't get elected with prayer, it was the aliens. Not the kind that swim across the border. These are the ones I saw discussed on TV that are parked in the outer atmosphere. They beamed up the Gore supporters because they knew that Al would slow down global warming. And as we now know is true, they are heating the environment so they can colonize this planet. You might remember that documentary on TV a few years back where these same aliens sent that whale probe that nearly ionized our atmosphere and broke a window. I saw it on TV so it must be true.

Anthony,

I don't want to needle you too badly. I respect your opinion but I just wanted to make the point that because we hear it on the news or our friends all agree with us, doesn't make it true.

Case in point

There are lots of good things going on in Iraq from schools built to hospitals built and all you will only hear about is the violence. You won't hear about the Iraqis that now have jobs who couldn't work before because their family was on Saddam's snit list. The list of good things we've done goes on and on. This is because of the rules of the press.

The press primary directive

If it bleeds it leads. Good news doesn't get ratings. Nobody wants to hear about the good stuff and if you can get hold a good conspiracy theory then you get a larger audience. The more outlandish, the better people like it.

Don't believe everything you read and half of what you see on TV.

You can't drive a car without engaging the transmission and you can't watch TV without engaging the brain. Too many people choose to "feel" rather than "critically think".

I'm afraid that we are becoming a majority of "feelers" in this country.

-- November 3, 2006 1:40 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Rob N

I've seen everything from .31 to 1.18 to 2.75 to 3 something.

I guess it's just about anybody's guess. I only ask that they don't zero lop or change the currency. I could live with anything else and dream about even more.

-- November 3, 2006 1:45 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Chris:

This nation of feelers are mainly social progressive who wish to change the America the founding fathers fought and died for.

I do not want to live in their America, I want to live in the America that Washington, Adams, and Franklin saw. Therfore, I agree with you that the mainstream news media must be viewed critically.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 3, 2006 1:46 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

It was provoking.. for sure! :)
Glad you and Carole were not serious.. but Neil was taking the talk seriously enough,
and said it was a good idea.. so I had to speak.

Carole;

A Freudian slip is where someone betrays what they TRULY think by an offhand remark. I think your saying that Kerry's remark was his sincere belief and desire to indoctrinate those youth in his Anti-American agenda agrees with that assessment. Thank you for your support of the position I espoused, I am truly glad you agree. :)

Board, some thoughts;

The stakes are so high for us all in this election. Part of me even wonders at some groups, like the feminists and homosexuals, who would not describe themselves as GOP but feel more comfortable in the Democrat camp. I wonder that they would wish the terrorists to change their front on the war from Iraq to America by voting to put in the Democrats who would withdraw from the war over there, leading them back onto American soil - because of how the radical Islamics view both feminism and homosexuality. Do these groups not realize their causes of feminism and homosexuality would be betrayed if the terrorist's bid to attack and kill all the "infidel" West were to come home to roost in a Dem win? (Uhhh, they aren't part of that description?) Perhaps they think it could never happen here, though it does elsewhere on the globe?

Italian Feminist Pol Given Protection After Muslim Threat
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/italian-feminist-pol-given-protection-after-muslim-threat

UK Muslim Cleric Defends Execution Of Homosexuals, aged 16 and 18
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/uk-muslim-cleric-defends-execution-of-homosexuals

Australia’s Top Muslim Blames Women For Sex Attacks
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/australias-top-muslim-blames-women-for-sex-attacks

The stakes are so high.. everyone, including those groups, should be required to watch this video carefully:

“Stakes” - A New Chilling Campaign Ad From The GOP
From the RNC:

http://www.gop.com/Multimedia/MediaPlayer.aspx?ID=1136&TypeID=2

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 1:49 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Anthony R wrote:

I don't think it was prayer that Got GWB elected, I think it was Jeb cooking the ballots in FL, but that is another discussion.

===end of quote===

Anthony R;

The reference to prayer puts your remark in the realm of theology. Soo.. a theological answer for you.

As a past leader of the country of Iraq (or Babylon as it was known then) once had to learn:

Dan 4:17 This decision is by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He will...

Nebuchadnezzar agreed with this when he wrote:

Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and no one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

===

In other words, men may labor hard toward the outcome and they may cast the dice (or hanging chads) - but the outcome of every political gamble belongs to God, including GWB being elected.

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 1:59 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Anthony, I have a bone to pick with you. You seem to stress, a lot, the role of George Bush's brother, Jeb, in stuffing the ballot boxes in Florida, in order to fix the election in question. I take issue with this position.

While I grant you that the ballot stuffing in question no doubt helped, in rigging the election in question, what about the role of the Supreme Court? George Bush Sr. went through a lot of trouble to stack the Supreme Court, with jurists who would be sympathetic to Republican causes, for his son George W. This took years of careful planning. As I recall, the results of the election in Florida were reviewed by their distinguished eminences, and considered to be certifiably fair, or at least certifiable.

I know this for a fact, because I heard it from a fellow I ran into at a greasy, run-down diner, on the wrong side of Detroit. I remember it well. He was a big man. A very big man, with what looked like a seventy inch waist. He resembled a working class Orson Wells. He wore a baseball cap, jeans and a tee shirt, and a scruffly looking beard. He was scarffing down five or six "Hungry Man Dinners" in a row, all the while apologizing that he was "on a diet", when we had a conversation. As he explained and spit out the facts of this vast, right wing conspiracy, with gravy and potatoes erupting from his mouth, and running down his bloated greasy cheeks, he turned to me, and said, "Hi, I'm Michael Moore."

-- November 3, 2006 4:00 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

That was my lame attempt at humour.

-- November 3, 2006 4:03 PM ∞

---

CYMRU001 wrote:

Does anyone here have an Iraqi bank account? I am curious as to how the members of this site are holding their Dinars. Mine is all cash. Is this how everyone else is holding theirs? Would it be better to have an Iraqi account?

I have read literature describing how a Dinar account could be opened in Iraq, provided it was fed with a similar Dollar account.

My thought was that should anything happen to the dinar - RV, zero lop etc, then at least the figures in the account would be ammended accordingly without the fear of being stuck with very expensive toilet paper!!

I have posted this question once already but didn't get an answer.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Carole,

================
"I must admit that it takes a whole heck of a lot more faith to follow the Wiccan way of life than to follow Christ. Just as I believe that it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer in God."
================

I neither know nor care what the Wiccan way of life is, but am curious to know how you think that by being an atheist one would need more faith? Surely if a person believes there is no god, then at the very least it would mean they have the same amount of faith as someone who does believe in a god?

I think being an atheist is easier. There is no praying, no church attendance, in fact, nothing which is celebrated by a religious person?

Sara,

================
"Dan 4:17 This decision is by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He will...

Nebuchadnezzar agreed with this when he wrote:

Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and no one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
================

What was the decision as a result of? What was the decision? What was the sentence? Where exactly does it say in those two extracts, that Nebuchadnezzar actually agreed? Finally, I understand the second extract to mean that He, Him, God or whatever you choose to call him thinks that all of his followers, believers, keepers of the faith etc are nothing? How is that for a thank you!! It also says to me that he is the one to blame for the actions of those dictators and nutcases mentioned in earlier posts, or it could be said that since "no one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?" then it was him and not the Saddams and Hitlers of this world who have caused the pain and suffering people have had to suffer as a result of their race, creed or colour?

I would not describe myself as either atheist, agnostic or religious. I would say I have an empathy to those who are.

I do agree with others who have posted on this site that too many religious postings on this site can be a bad thing. Especially when A) this site should be for discussing the Dinar and B) Wars have been started as a result of religious disagreement.

Sara,

There is no doubt that you are very knowledgeable in your faith, but I do tend to scroll straight through your posts when you make reference the bible. It has, on occasion, caused me to completely ignore a post from you irrespective of its possible content.

Whilst I have been reading this site for several months, I do consider myself to be very much the new boy, and as such should maybe post a little more and maybe get to know a few people better before posting my opinions. I have resisted the urge several times to post a comment regarding something I read here and didn't like or agree with.

The main reason why I don't post is simply because I come here to learn more on the Dinar and its potential RV.

I fully expect to recieve a wave of indignation from you all, but feel that as someone reading this site, I too am entitled to an opinion and by the very nature of this site, am allowed to post it.

I am not saying that Sara and Carole should not post religious comments, that's their thing, but I would like to see less of it and if the concenusus is that it is getting too deep and detracted from the real reason we are all here then they should take their conversation elswhere.

-- November 3, 2006 5:15 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, you made some good points. In Afghanistan, the Taliban used to build concrete walls, every now and then. Then, they would line up homosexuals beside the wall. Then, the Taliban would tear down the wall, crushing the homosexuals, in a horrifying, painful death.

Yet most gay people tend to be against President Bush.

And feminists? Feminists in the West are fully aware of the horrible brutality with which women are treated in the Muslim world. Most feminists are against President Bush, and say nothing against the rampant misogynist evil in the Muslim world. Yet President Bush, by kicking the Taliban out of Afghanistan, and allowing millions of little girls to go to school, has done more to advance the dignity of women worldwide than any president.

But still, feminists hate the President. Why is that?

My guess is the feminists and gays don't want to piss off the radical Muslims. Why? They fear them. Because these people cut people's heads off on TV. They are serious people. Gloria Steinem doesn't want her head cut off. Neither do gay rights people.

They both generally hate the President to begin with, so they figure, why say something that will sound like it is being supportive of how the President sees the world, even if it's true. Especially if it might get my head cut off.

This is intellectually dishonest, and cowardly, which is pretty much what we get from liberals nowadays.

Have you noticed there are no movies coming out of Hollywood that portray Muslims in a negative light, or present them as a threat? In a world where nuclear proliferation and Islamic radicalism are coming together in a perfect storm, we wouldn't know it by paying attention to Hollywood. The lack of Muslim villains is not a coincidence. Why make a movie that might validate what the Republicans see as a real danger? Even if they are right.

-- November 3, 2006 7:14 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

CYMRU001 wrote;

What was the decision as a result of? What was the decision? What was the sentence? Where exactly does it say in those two extracts, that Nebuchadnezzar actually agreed? Finally, I understand the second extract to mean that He, Him, God or whatever you choose to call him thinks that all of his followers, believers, keepers of the faith etc are nothing? How is that for a thank you!! It also says to me that he is the one to blame for the actions of those dictators and nutcases mentioned in earlier posts, or it could be said that since "no one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?" then it was him and not the Saddams and Hitlers of this world who have caused the pain and suffering people have had to suffer as a result of their race, creed or colour?

===end of quote===

Since you find my religious explanations skippable, I won't bore you with just such a skippable explanation expounding on the passages which you referred to here. I am sure you can dig and find out for yourself what they mean. If you are truly curious, read the entire book of Daniel.. it is quite short, really. After all, as you said yourself, maybe "that it is getting too deep and detracted from the real reason we are all here." After all, this is mainly a Dinar site, and we don't need to get off topic into religious explanations for you.

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 7:18 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Chris: yes, you are right, with what you said. Too many Americans are becoming, as you put it, "feelers".... Even in the Republican Party......Just ask Congressional Pages.

-- November 3, 2006 7:23 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sara, You don't know my conviction with, through, and in Christ.

-- November 3, 2006 7:55 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;
Are you CYMRU001??
To what are you referring?
I see you as a very dedicated brother in the Lord.
What's up?

=====

Iraq sees spike in violence before U.S. polls
Fri Nov 3, 2006
By Claudia Parsons

BAGHDAD, Nov 3 (Reuters) - The Iraqi government put the army on alert ahead of Sunday's verdict in Saddam Hussein's trial for crimes against humanity, as a spike in violence kept up pressure on President George W. Bush before U.S. elections.

Rising U.S. casualties and spiralling Iraqi bloodshed have put more pressure on Bush before Tuesday's elections. Polls show public dissatisfaction over Iraq could lose the Republicans both houses of Congress.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nL0338665&imageid=top-news-view-2006-11-03-193647-RTR1IXMT_Comp.jpg&cap=U.S.militaryspokesmaninIraqMajorGeneralWilliamCaldwellusesamaptodiscussU.S.military&from=business

You know.. if the terrorists can intimidate the American people, putting pressure on President Bush and influencing American politics by the use of bloodshed, they will do it again, and again and again..

If the American people vote the way the terrorists want them to (for the Democrats), it will encourage the terrorists that their strategy of stepping up attacks and violence is a good war tactic which does their cause a lot of good... The American people will be seen as influenced by what the terrorists DO. If a spike in violence can put pressure on the President and influence the public so that the Republicans lose.. the terrorists will take note of it and think it is a good strategy to KEEP UP the attacks in order to get the Americans to pull out. (After all, it worked once, right?) To this end, they would then be helped toward their aim by the Democrats who have *suprisingly!* the same agenda of "cut and run". So if Americans want LESS violence, they should not REWARD those doing it with their voting for them to do MORE of it. Someone ought to make a banner, "Don't vote Democrat.. save the life of an American soldier."

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 8:07 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Remember they said there was no threat from Saddam.. ??
What about this?

U.S. Web Archive Is Said to Reveal a Nuclear Primer
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: November 3, 2006

Last March, the federal government set up a Web site to make public a vast archive of Iraqi documents captured during the war. The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to “leverage the Internet” to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

But in recent weeks, the site has posted some documents that weapons experts say are a danger themselves: detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

Last night, the government shut down the Web site after The New York Times asked about complaints from weapons experts and arms-control officials. A spokesman for the director of national intelligence said access to the site had been suspended “pending a review to ensure its content is appropriate for public viewing.”

Officials of the International Atomic Energy Agency, fearing that the information could help states like Iran develop nuclear arms, had privately protested last week to the American ambassador to the agency, according to European diplomats who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the issue’s sensitivity. One diplomat said the agency’s technical experts “were shocked” at the public disclosures.

The documents, roughly a dozen in number, contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs.

Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ei=5094&en=1511d6b3da302d4f&hp&ex=1162530000&partner=homepage

Please read that last sentence slowly.. it reads:

MR. HUSSEIN'S SCIENTISTS WERE ON THE VERGE OF BUILDING AN ATOM BOMB, AS LITTLE AS A YEAR AWAY.

Excuse me? HELLOooooooooooo?

Where do you think that atom bomb would have been used? Anyone willing to venture a guess?

So.. now.. can we FINALLY put to rest all this "there were no WMD to worry about in Iraq" talk?

EXPERTS SAY THAT AT THE TIME, MR. HUSSEIN'S SCIENTISTS WERE ON THE VERGE OF BUILDING AN ATOM BOMB, AS LITTLE AS A YEAR AWAY.

What about, "detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research" which "the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb" and include papers that "give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs." And "contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums."

AND THE US WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT AN ATOMIC IRAQ OR THE THREAT IT POSED?

Sara.

-- November 3, 2006 8:33 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Bush: Dems not unpatriotic, just wrong on Iraq
November 3, 2006

SPRINGFIELD, Missouri (AP) -- President Bush blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe from terrorists.

Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq aren't unpatriotic, just wrong.

"If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said. "The truth is the Democrats can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. Second guessing is not a strategy.

"On this important issue of Iraq and the global war on terror, the Democrats have taken a calculated gamble. They believe the only way they can win this election is to criticize and offer no plan of their own," Bush said. Then he added: "So far, they've refused to tell how they plan to secure this country, but there's four days left" before the election.

http://us.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/03/bush.ap/index.html

-- November 3, 2006 8:55 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

cmry....or whoever you are:

I did not say it was EASIER to be a beleiver in God than to be and atheist! I said that I believed it took more faith to be an atheist.

Daniel Webster once said...to believe that there is not an Almighty Hand of GOd on all of our creation is to believe that the encyclopedia brittianica was the result of an explosion in the print shoppe....

Sara,

Good response to CMRY>>aka Willie????

I guess I go back to my idea of " shake the dust......" :}

Chris:

You need to join Tim for the comedy skits that are going to go on at the pig roast!!

Your imagination is terrific!!

Carl's humor is pretty good too, especially if there is a full moon :] :}

Carole

-- November 3, 2006 9:09 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Timeless Leadership Principals....
of a leader who some called barbaric,ruthless,Plunder and Pillager of tranquil villages...he however followed a set of rules that he developed over the years that allowed him to build a dynasty in such a short period of time...

I subsituted the word american in place of his nationality in stating his principals:

1. Above all, an American must be loyal to his nation. Disagreements are not disloyalty as long as it does not weaken the nation.

2. If an American actively participates in or encourages actions that are counter to the good of the nation it is considered disloyal.The ability to influence and discourage loyal Americans is a contaqious disease and actions to remove the source should be immediate.

3. You must be committed to persevere even in the face of opposition and challenges.

4. A leaders word must prevail over all considerations, even politcal expediency.

5. We must appoint our leaders from the most qualified, regardless of race, or ancestry.

6. We must not retaliate against the innocent, use unscrupulous tactics or kill unsuspecting or trapped enemies without cause or justification. We must be fierce in the eyes of the enemy in order to instill fear, yet the use of unnecessary terror is ignoble.

7. A nation made up one ancestry and race is weak. We must welcome all foreigners who seek to join our cause. However, they will learn our language and custom, not we theirs.

8.We have to mold our differences and diversities of customs, religions, ancestry heritage into one common pool.

9.Discipline is not suppression, but the teaching of the correct ways in which Americans are expected to conduct themselves.

10.Discipline is not always welcome, but without it Americans cannot behave with a common focus.

11. Discipline builds inner confidence and builds morale within our ranks.

12. The lack of discipline is one of the most contagious things that cannot be allowed in a Army Camp.

13.Wise leaders realize that unduly harsh or unnecessary discipline will undo the ranks.

14. Beware of the American who pledges loyalty in public then spreads discontent in private. Remove them immediately whether they be leaders or from the ranks.

15. Anticipate the Brutus's of the Camp and move quickly.

16. Never threat the security or esteem of another nation unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences.

17. Be Compatible to the policies and customs of other nations. Otherwise they will seek to remove you.

18. The Spirit of Unity is a Cardinal Principal of the Nation. Allow the Division to start and you are easily made subject to your enemy.

19. Never should the leaders of the nation increase their privileges more than the ordinary American is willing to grant.

20. The leader is his reputation. If people of foreign nations think you are the Scourge of God, it has its advantages in dealing with the enemy. However, Among your own the reputation must be one of fairness, for if they perceive you wicked, you will not be serving long.

21. When on a hunting trip....be prepared to hunt....when at war...be prepared to be a warrior...
Carole...

22. Do not waste your stamina trying to negotiate with implacable, uncooperative enemies....conquer them...no quarter given.

23. Never under estimate the power of the enemy no matter how great or small the nation.

24.Not all opponents are enemies.

25. Most battles in which a leader will be concern will not come from foreign enemies, but from within your own camp.

26. Never neglect the opportunity to deceive your enemy. Make him think of you as a friend. Let him think of you as weak. Let him act prematurely, and strike with no quarter.

27.Do not make enemies of those who are not worthy of your every effort.

28. Use the enemy's weakness to your advantage.

29. Do not insult without being capable of handling the reaction.

30. Expect high performance of your men, and have no tolerance for the uncommitted.

31. Knowing when to make a decision is just as important as when not to act.

32. Time is your # 1 Ally when negotiating, however, it will also be used by your opponent.

33. Keep all negotiations secret.

34. Never arbitrate as this allows a third party to determine your destiny, and is a sign of weakness to your soldiers.

35. Retreat is sometime noble in order to gain the upper hand at a later date.

36. Never exspend your forces energy in the initial charge.

Author..
ATTILA THE HUN !

Carole...
I admired your last post ..it showed some creativity...made me smile...

-- November 3, 2006 9:11 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

As noble as your list sounds, it is the dogma of the Secular progressives...

Geroge Soros would be proud....

-- November 3, 2006 9:24 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole...

I just imagine they have been adopted by many over the years..probably including George Soros...

-- November 3, 2006 10:52 PM ∞

---

Angel wrote:

Hi, I am new on here and I was just wondering about a question that was asked a few posts up that was never answered. What do y'all think about opening up a bank account in Iraq vs. having the Dinar in hand. Thank you for any comments.

-- November 3, 2006 10:53 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Angel,

Welcome to the dinaroholic society.

I hope someone with the knowledge needed to answer your question will answer you.

I'm thinking you would probably have to go to Iraq to open an account. Would you be willing to do that?

Carole

-- November 4, 2006 12:33 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Angel: I haven't done this, as I have my dinars in a safety deposit box, but I have looked at banks in Kuwaiit, on their websites, and if I remember, at least one has a branch in New York, and in London, England. National Bank of Kuwaiit was one, I think. A Kuwaiiti based bank may have accounts available in the West, in Iraqi Dinars. I would also look at Hong Kong Shanghai Bank Corporation, or HSBC, which has many branches around the world, including a branch in Bagdhad, affiliated with an Iraqi bank. Good luck.

-- November 4, 2006 1:03 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Angel;

I had a devil of a time finding this to reply to you.
Obviously you never backread the board..
The most sane reply I ever heard was by Outlaw in Iraq, a poster on this board,
in his reply to OKIE who was thinking of opening an Iraqi Bank account.
I reproduce it here with url for you to mull over:

OKIE,

Well it sounds like you have it all worked out. Good Luck.

This Blog is comprised of a combination of experienced and un-experienced prospective buyers. The un-experienced are asking questions in hopes of getting accurate information, in order to assist them in making a sound investment with their hard earned money. With that being said...

I just want to put things in perspective for anyone who is interested in depositing their any money in a Bank in Iraq. The Statement of Deposit that you will be getting is nothing more than an I.O.U. from a bank in a country that we just bombed the crap out of, invaded, and are still occupying. Just in case anyone forgot...We are at war and this war is being conducted inside Iraq against Arabs! This would be the same as us invading Germany during WWII and you opening an account at a German Bank during our occupation before the war was over! I hope that fact is clear and everyone understands its meaning.

Of course any bank is going to take your money and give you a piece of paper in exchange... who wouldn't??? These people have many, many years of experience being a player and they are good at it. Corruption, theft and deceit is a common practice in this culture. Trust me, you will not see any guilt or second thoughts about them taking money from anyone foolish enough to give it to them. I'm sure all of us know someone who fits this description. Imagine a Country full of them! I'm sure their are honest people here in Iraq, but how can we tell them apart from the corrupt? Look at what was just uncovered about possible links with high ranking Government Officials and the Insurgents!

We are the occupying infidels... What Arab court would assist an American in getting their money back from an Arab Bank? I know that when Hussine was in charge, the government had to give approval for large sums of money to leave the country. I would assume it will be the same now, as this is a common practice as seen in Thailand and most Countries.

Iraq is not secure. The last time I spoke to Al Warka, the wanted to know everything about you including a photocopy of your drivers license and Passport. As I previously mentioned... we are at war inside Iraq. Giving information which could lead cells to you or your family isn't very smart. Can anyone honestly tell you that this information will be kept secure? Here at home we are having information stolen all the time so to assume that Al Warka Bank can keep that information safe is foolish. If that information gets to the wrong people... it could cost you or your loved ones their lives. These people that we are fighting are animals.

I would suggest that if anyone has a burning desire to send money to a Bank in The Middle East, I would look at one in the UAE, Kuwait, or wait until CitiCorp opens their Baghdad branch, which shouldn't be too much longer.

Outlaw

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/04/iraqi_dinar_dis_3.html#121853

-- November 4, 2006 1:07 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

In reference to the Leadership rules of Attilla...

How many of those can you see Uncle George violated in the past 3 years and why?

-- November 4, 2006 2:05 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

When:
President Bush stated, we are going to spread dem and freedom throughout the middle east, what do you think the rulers and their followers especially the cleric, who get special privileges from their rulers felt....?

Security...Warmth...O.K. Yea! lets do it George! We are with you George! When George?

or

Why is he threatening my authority? Why is he saying he is going to bring about a change in my country that will remove my family from power? Why is he wanting to weaken my power base?

Have we not provided their country with military jumping off points? Have we not given them intellgence to assist them in capturing their enemy?

Why has he turned on us? Why does he not have any loyalty and appreciation for what we have done? Have we not made concessions to provide their country with oil at our expense?

Did George Violate rule # 16 no matter how noble the cause...which is never threaten the security or esteem of another nation, unless you are prepared to deal with it.

If you were a Arab Leader how do you think the Americans would have responded to your annoucement to the world you are going to spread Islam and your style of government in America. How would the Chrisitian movers and shakers reacted? Do you think they would have motivated their followers in their Church to move against Islam or nation that threaten their own power base?

If you were a Arab Leader how would you have responded to George's annoucement?

Did that one statement do a lot to weaken the foreign security network of the middle east countries? Did that statement threaten the national pride of the average middle eastern citizen who just wants to make a living and survive..

Did our president unintentionally create more anger among the middle eastern minds with that announcement?

Did we ourselves kick the Ant Hill and now we are looking in amazement at the Ants are running around alarmed and attacking.

Then we asked ourselves what have we done to cause some of this anger?

Just something to think about...

-- November 4, 2006 6:45 AM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

A couple replies...

Saddam better off dead as soon as possible.

WMDs, he had them. It is that simple. Some day reports will be released that you will all wonder why they were never released before.

According to the folks who go there, Baghdad is not under seige by Sunnis. Mahdi maybe but not Sunnis. if it was, they would be in the open and we would kill them.

We've been getting a great laugh at the "missing weapons" reports. The Army filed those reports. They are not missing, the military knows axactly what happened to them. It's part of the corruption shakedown going on. In Iraqi culture, the officer in charge takes the weapons. Some get handed out to his troops, others disappear and fatten his bank account. We've put a couple high ranking Iraqis in jail but the weapons are gone and cannot be recovered. The best way to say this, the concept of blindering folls somehow misplacing thousands of firearms is bogus. The question being dealt with is how to stop it.

Just so noone here gets duped. In the coming months it will be rainy season here. If trend serves, you will hear much fanfare about the drop in violence. Reality, our enemy does not like working in the rain. The thing to watch for... My hope, other have agreed, is that the players rolling into place will use this time to squash certain malitias. I cannot elaborate but some interesting things are in the works and this COULD get exciting soon. Discplaimer - COULD but it would be a tremendous waste of effort if something hot does not happen by mid to late January. Now, will this happen and put some nice marks in the security column, wait and see. Will the dinar follow? OHHH How do I hope it does!

-- November 4, 2006 7:48 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Angel.....

Welcome to the forum! Jump in with both feet and have a good time posting.

I've opened an account with Al-Warka Bank in Baghdad and see no problems with them. They're up-grading their systems to the real world which will make them even better. The family that owns the Bank has been doing business in Iraq for close to 100 years.

I was working in Iraq when the account was opened and did all the paperwork via e-mail. I'm currently in the US but worked in that part of the world for over 20 years. I've had business and personal accounts in the Middle East and never had any problem with the Banking system. Al-Warka also pays 6% interest on my savings account which is a hell of a lot better than my Credit Union here in the US.

When the Dinar RV's, my dinar account will have the new value at the same time. I also have A us$ with them and can transfer funds between the two accounts on-line.

Bottom line....Opening an account in Iraq is a personal choice but only after investigating the Bank. When the International Banks like HSBC enter the country the choice will be better.

-- November 4, 2006 9:31 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Okie. I wasn't ridiculing your choice, but felt Outlaw's comments are a good caution that anyone going in blind ought to know and take account of before putting their cash on the line. Hope it all works out well for you and any others who have chosen that route. :)

Carl - VERY interesting list.. thanks so very very much for sharing it with the board. I found it fascinating. The Democrats were on my mind so I applied these ones to them:

1. Above all, an American must be loyal to his nation. Disagreements are not disloyalty as long as it does not weaken the nation. (THEY ARE WEAKENING THE NATION - COULD LOSE THE WAR CAUSING DIRE CONSEQUENCES THEY ARE HIDING FROM PUBLIC DISCLOSURE AND REFUSING TO DISCUSS OR ADMIT.)

2. If an American actively participates in or encourages actions that are counter to the good of the nation it is considered disloyal. (CNN SNUFF MOVIE??) The ability to influence and discourage loyal Americans is a contaqious disease and actions to remove the source should be immediate. (READ ABOVE TRANSCRIPT OF BUSH AND RUSH WHERE PRESIDENT BUSH SAYS THAT THE COVERAGE IN THE NEWS IS CALCULATED EXACTLY TO DO THAT, DISCOURAGE LOYAL AMERICANS FROM FIGHTING) AND 14. Beware of the American who pledges loyalty in public then spreads discontent in private. Remove them immediately whether they be leaders or from the ranks. (TOO BAD ONLY ATTILA HAD THE POWER TO REMOVE THOSE WHO SPEAK AND ACT DISLOYAL. I AM SURE DEMOCRATS WITH THEIR CUT AND RUN MANTRA AND DAILY ATTACKS AGAINST THE CREDIBILITY OF THE WAR WOULD BE REMOVED UNDER HIM, FOR THE GOOD OF THE NATION AND ITS MISSION. PRESIDENT BUSH SAYS THAT HE DOES NOT QUESTION THEIR PATRIOTISM OR LOYALTY.. WELL, ATTILA WOULD.)

3. You must be committed to persevere even in the face of opposition and challenges.

4. A leaders word must prevail over all considerations, even political expediency. (INSTEAD, THE MEDIA AND DEMOCRATIC PUNDITS QUESTION AND HOLD UP THE PRESIDENT TO RIDICULE FOR POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY, ENCOURAGING THE ENEMY AS THEY DO SO. WE ALL KNOW THIS IS SO.)

CASE IN POINT:

IRAQ IS NOT LOST

Friday, November 03, 2006

If you read the newspapers and news magazines or watch television news shows, you'll no doubt know that the struggle in Iraq is "lost." At least that’s what the talking heads and their legions of guest commentators and "military experts" would have you believe. The reality in Iraq, as told to me by Marines on the ground now and those who have just returned from the fighting, is different. The picture isn't rosy but the men and women who are serving there now haven't given up the fight. So why is it that the talking heads here at home are so willing to declare Iraq as hopeless? Unfortunately, you and I know the answer: its politics. Let’s leave politics aside for a minute and break the Iraq problem down to some basics.

Counter-insurgency warfare like we see in Iraq is not new to either US Army soldiers or Marines. The Marine Corps published the definitive manual covering "small wars" in 1940 based on its experiences in the Caribbean and Central America in the 1920s and 1930s.

Marines in Iraq now tell me that this fight is winnable...

The President has continually said that our strategic goals in Iraq have not changed. The US military and civilian leadership team in Iraq right now is as good as it has been. What needs to change, and change right now, are the operational and tactical means and methods we use to get to the strategic goals.

http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/50/6313/iraq.asp?nid=6313&fb=1&wid=50&ntyp=EMA#11263

Here you can see that the fight is winnable, and those serving have not given up. The reason it is declared HOPELESS.. which is DISCOURAGING (see point 2 of Attila's - The ability to influence and discourage loyal Americans is a contaqious disease and actions to remove the source should be immediate.) is due to political expediency (point 4 - A leaders word must prevail over all considerations, even political expediency.) Obviously, by discrediting the war the Democrats hope for a political win, and here this article admits that it is all for POLITICAL reasons that the war is being called hopeless, not operational reasons.

Those were my thoughts on it, Carl. I appreciated yours. Thanks for sharing them. :)

Oh, and do read the entire link, above.. as it gives good strategy points.. and is wise.

I think we are following the second suggestion, it seems a good plan.

Sara.

-- November 4, 2006 11:14 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Turtle;

Thanks for your post and perspective, which is greatly appreciated and ENCOURAGING! With all the depressing news we get exposed to here and constant belittling attacks against the President for political expediency, it is nice to hear from someone on the ground who says there is good news ahead - both in falling casualty rates and strengthening of security through wise strategic initiatives (there is a plan). MUCH appreciated and welcome news, as this perspective is not given at all in the mainstream media coverage of the war - there the constant mantra is that this is a botched war and we ought to pull out and forget it - How would Attila have handled that kind of ridicule? And remember, these are the same people who voted to go to war in the first place.. imagine if Attila got consensus and then had his supporters turn traitor after he had committed his troops to the field - how would he have reacted?

Sara.

-- November 4, 2006 11:31 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:
I agree with you...I so many violations under Attila's leadership guidelines committed by the Democrats, and MSM, I'm sure that most if not all would not longer be on this plain of existence...

One of the rules that I saw the UN and European Nations continously violating was do not negoiate with a uncooperative enemy. Simply Conquer and get it over with...The enemy is trying to buy time so he will have a better offensive position when the dime drops.

I ran across this little book on his concept of leadership and found some of his ideas had very good merits to consider..

One of his techniques was to dress his ugliess and most scariest looking warriors in untreated animal furs. He would have them slaughter animals and eat the parts raw. The warriors would be covered in blood during their eating times. He would capture a small village and commit horrible atrocities. He had his warrior to torture the prisoners in such horrendious ways, that what happened to the village would spread throughout the country creating unbridled terror.

He would then approach the surrounding villages and country side with the following proposal...surrender to us unconditionally or suffer the fate of whatever village he wiped out... he would then take what he needed from the village, and leave them alone....sometimes the village never saw his army again....but this technique saved men, supplies and ammunition....the result... he conquered with less than expected losses or cost.

-- November 4, 2006 1:32 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Wow, Carl.. that may be brilliant military strategy that Attila used with the villages, but it sure seems uncivilized... like something out of the Annals of Saddam Hussein's regime. But then.. when is war truly "civilized"? Dictators are also military leaders and have interesting lessons we can learn from them, as with Attila here. The interesting thing is to see what these past military successfuls thought, and how it worked.. and if there is any application to now, or not. Some of it really does seem relevant, and the horrible story of torture does remind me of the terrorists in Iraq who are capturing and torturing people just to make themselves feared as Attila once did. They also don't have to make sure their kidnap victims are treated according to the Geneva Convention. The terrorists don't have to be elected or persuade people to vote for their party, which gives them the dictatorship advantages Attila had. If Attila suspected someone or thought them a Brutus.. they could be "dealt" with summarily - and the terrorists can do the same with those they suspect of disloyalty within their ranks. Not so with us, as the discontent ones can just go on CNN and stir up even more discontent.. ad infinitum... to the detriment of the nation, and its will to fight the war or stand united against this military threat to our homes and loved ones.

Interesting study, with parts that relate to both sides of the Iraqi conflict and where they might be wrong.. if winning the war is the aim, that is.

Sara.

-- November 4, 2006 2:55 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:

You are correct in the stategy of the insurgency and other factions fighting in Iraq. The question is do we the have mind set to do what it may take to win the fight in Iraq?

I am not convinced the American People or European Nations have the backbone or stomach any more....It scares me to think that Bin Laden may have been right about the will of the American People to stand firm against a persistant force...
We know from listening to the Ted Kennedy's, John Kerry's and others they certainly do not.

By the way...The New York Times confirmed in their issue Friday,that Saddam had complete plans for Nuclear Weapon and was in the process of procuring parts when we removed him.

The MSM silence is deafening on this revelation ....

-- November 4, 2006 4:24 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:
Uncivilized....or was he just talking about his Rule # 21...when hunting be a hunter....when at war be a warrior...

I believe he knew that war was killing...nothing civilized about killing...with their weapons it was always close up and personal combat. When he went into battle the time for negoiation was over....he had the intend to conquer...no quarter given...his reputation was such...but he seemed to always kill for a reason or strategy, never just to be killing.

I believe the Iraqi PM has violated several rules of his leadership method...he has allowed Sadr to gain a reputation among his followers and Iraqi citizens who observe, for bucking and doing whatever he wants...to hell with whether it is good for the Iraqi nation or not...

This will be the down fall of the Iraqi Government if they do not take command...and show they are the leaders...presently they are showing nothing but weakness and inability to control the security situation.

I believe in certain cases...a touch of Attilla is needed..and the time is now...

-- November 4, 2006 4:36 PM ∞

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Angel wrote:

Thank you all for answering my questions. I apologize for not backreading, but for some reason this is the hardest board that I have ever read. As I am scrolling down the page the words just disappear. Sometimes I can highlight them and get them to reappear, but not always. Is there a thread that tells one how to open up a bank account in Iraq. Thank y'all again for the posts. This is a very informative board, I just wish it was easier to work on my computer.

Angel

-- November 4, 2006 7:15 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: interesting posts on Attila. Following your village example, what would have happened if, when the Americans caught Saddam, they had hanged him, within 24 hours, in the middle of his home town? And then let his body hand and rot in the sun for two weeks? And then force every newspaper in Iraq to print Saddam's daily picture on the front cover, and have a picture of Saddam's dead body on every television station in Iraq?

Would that have changed the whole insurgency equation? I think so.

Does this sound sadistic? Well, America is fighting an enemy that cuts people's heads off, then broadcasts it on the internet, just to terrify "infidels". Maybe they don't understand civilized like Americans.

Instead of a quick hanging, Saddam got three square meals a deal, and the finest legal counsel available. Then, like OJ Simpson, he got a long, protracted trial, and a comfortable cell, all the while human rights groups bending over backwards to make sure this mass murderer was treated with kid gloves.

How did the enemy interpret this? My guess is, they thought it was a sign of weakness. They don't respect that. My guess is the insurgency will last longer than it should because the insurgents still think they can wait this out. This is a very tough enemy the Americans are fighting, in Iraq. If more fear had been instilled from the start, maybe the war would have been shorter?

-- November 4, 2006 10:02 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: interesting posts on Attila. Following your village example, what would have happened if, when the Americans caught Saddam, they had hanged him, within 24 hours, in the middle of his home town? And then let his body hand and rot in the sun for two weeks? And then force every newspaper in Iraq to print Saddam's daily picture on the front cover, and have a picture of Saddam's dead body on every television station in Iraq?

Would that have changed the whole insurgency equation? I think so.

Does this sound sadistic? Well, America is fighting an enemy that cuts people's heads off, then broadcasts it on the internet, just to terrify "infidels". Maybe they don't understand civilized like Americans.

Instead of a quick hanging, Saddam got three square meals a deal, and the finest legal counsel available. Then, like OJ Simpson, he got a long, protracted trial, and a comfortable cell, all the while human rights groups bending over backwards to make sure this mass murderer was treated with kid gloves.

How did the enemy interpret this? My guess is, they thought it was a sign of weakness. They don't respect that. My guess is the insurgency will last longer than it should because the insurgents still think they can wait this out. This is a very tough enemy the Americans are fighting, in Iraq. If more fear had been instilled from the start, maybe the war would have been shorter?

-- November 4, 2006 10:02 PM ∞

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Hot wrote:

Saddam was just sentenced to death

-- November 4, 2006 11:54 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death? Good. He can join Hitler and Goering for Nazi Poker Night in hell.

-- November 5, 2006 1:08 AM ∞

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Hot wrote:

Hell is to good for them, there must be a worse place.

-- November 5, 2006 1:14 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

A worse place? I nominate Camden, New Jersey.

-- November 5, 2006 10:24 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Concerning Saddam - its not over yet

I won't believe the sentence until it is carried out. My understanding is they can appeal... and appeal.. and appeal.. forever. It isn't justice til it is done. Any rejoicing now at a mere verdict which can be overturned later is premature and could end up a farce, IMO. Why be happy at one judicial opinion? It will not be the final say.. unless they execute Saddam today or tomorrow, I presume it is all just a temporary thing. As Princess Leia said to Han Solo when they finally reached the rebel base, "It's not over yet." The final battle is yet to come.. and the outcome of that is not known. Saddam is still alive, this is only paperwork and words.

Sara.

-- November 5, 2006 10:45 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Angel....some info. about accounts at Warka Bank.

Thank you for choosing our Al-Warka bank to be your assistance for your financial needs in Iraq, and it give us a great pleasure to deal with you in our bank.

You can open two accounts at Al Warka, one in Iraqi Dinar and the other in US Dollars. For this we need copy of your passport or any official document, specimen of your signature duly attested, full address and small picture.

Please send it by e-mail to the following e-mail box:
(c.accounts[use-@-sign]warkainvestmentbank.com)

Once the account is open you can transfer your funds to our bank through one of our corresponding banks:

Dresdner Bank AG:
Swift Code: DRESDEFF
Jurgen – Ponto – Platz1
D- 60301 Frankfurt/ Main
Federal Republic of Germany
Our A/C No. in US Dollars../ 08-005-734-00-400

Commerz Bank:
Swift Code: COBADEFF
6021 Frankfurt a m main, Germany
Our A/C No. in US Dollars../ 400875402000

For exchanging your funds into Iraqi Dinar we ask you to sent an authorizing letter to our bank signed by yourself, to enable the bank to exchange Dollars to Iraqi Dinars. The form of this authorizing letter is as follows:

“I ---------------- authorize Al-Warka Investment Bank to draw from my Dollar account ( current or saving ) in the above Bank and exchange the Dollar into Iraqi Dinar according to price fixed by the Central Bank of Iraq at that day, and then deposit it in my Iraqi Dinar account at the said bank”.

Also we must inform you that any drawing from such account should be made by you personally or by written authorization from your goodself, and please be informed that you can not transfer any Iraqi Money out of Iraq because it is not allowed by the regulation of Iraqi Central Bank.

Kindly inform me what kind of accounts do you need (is it current or saving ? ).
Please inform me do you need personal account or for a company (please send copy of company registration papers).
Please be informed that we will credit your deposit saving account an interest rate of 3.5% per year for the dollar account and 6% per year for the Iraqi Dinar account the interest will calculated on the lowest balance of the said month.
Please be informed that the current account have no interest.

Al-Wakra Bank
Below are charges you'll find at Al Warka Bank:

Remittance fees 0.125%.
Open Dollar account ( saving or current ) 2$.
Open Dinar account ( saving or current ) ID2000.
Dollar account statement $2.
Dinar account statement ID 500.
Dollar saving account bank book $2.
Dinar saving account bank book ID 2000
Transfer between Dinar accounts ID 1000.
Transfer between Dollar accounts $2.
Purchase Iraqi Dinar 1.5 ID for each Dollar.
Purchasing Iraqi Dinar the Central Bank of Iraq take 1 ID for each Dollar.

Kindly be informed that, we will draw these charges from your goodself account.

The amount of exchanging Iraqi Dinars against the Dollar is variable depending on the market.

Once you send the information I need, the accounts will be open.

Thank you again for contacting us and if you need any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

-- November 5, 2006 11:08 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Angel;

It is a bit frustrating when the words disappear, I agree.

Tim Bitts;

I agree with you that an immediate execution of Saddam would have been a better move militarily.

Carl;

As you said, "The question is do we the have mind set to do what it may take to win the fight in Iraq?" That truly is the question.

And, as you pointed out, "We know from listening to the Ted Kennedy's, John Kerry's and others they certainly do not." So it is an uphill battle to even get the US to engage in a war on terror - even though the ability of the US to survive is at stake.

As you pointed out, the decision to invade was indeed rational and to protect the nation. You said: "The New York Times confirmed in their issue Friday,that Saddam had complete plans for Nuclear Weapon and was in the process of procuring parts when we removed him."

I don't think I have to work hard to convince YOU where those Nukes would have ended up being used.. if you remember, in the sinister remarks Saddam made on those tapes that were translated, he threatened to use them on Washington, DC:

Saddam Translator: ABC Reinterpreted Tapes
Friday, Feb. 17, 2006 12:51 p.m. EST

The FBI translator who supplied the 12 hours of Saddam Hussein audiotapes excerpted by ABC's "Nightline" Wednesday night now says the network discarded his translations and went with a less threatening version of the Iraqi dictator's comments.

In the "Nightline" version of the 1996 recording, Saddam predicts that Washington, D.C., would be hit by terrorists. But he adds that Iraq would have nothing to do with the attack.

Tierney says, however, that what Saddam actually said was much more sinister. "He was discussing his intent to use chemical weapons against the United States and use proxies so it could not be traced back to Iraq," he told Hannity.

In a passage not used by "Nightline," Tierney says Saddam declares: "Terrorism is coming. ... In the future there will be terrorism with weapons of mass destruction. What if we consider this technique, with smuggling?"

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2005/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_2.html#116125

===

And we know he ordered suicide attacks on the US, which, within a year, could have become nuclear:

Saddam Ordered Suicide Attacks on U.S. Targets
Thursday, April 6, 2006

A newly translated document from Saddam Hussein's intelligence files indicates that the Iraqi dictator ordered suicide attacks against U.S. targets six months before the 9/11 attacks.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2005/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_2.html#120730

Lest we think he was not planning any attacks against the West, and for the Blair bashers:

Saddam was training terrorists for attacks in London
Monday, March 27, 2006

Among the documents released last week was a translation of a three-page Iraqi Intelligence memo regarding a wave of attacks to be conducted by the Saddam Fedayeen.According to those orders, the Fedayeen Saddam was "to start planning from now on to perform special operations (assassinations/bombings) for the centers and the traitor symbols in the fields of (London/Iran/self-ruled areas) and for coordination with the Intelligence service to secure deliveries, accommodations, and target guidance."

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2005/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_2.html#120664

And lastly, something to consider from Iran:

Iran has 40,000 human 'time bombs'
'Martyrdom' movement recruits suicide attackers against U.S.

An Iranian movement says it now has recruited 40,000 human "time bombs" to carry out suicide attacks against Americans in Iraq and Israel.

"We are first and foremost Muslims and it is our duty to defend our brothers and sisters throughout the world," she says. "We don't need permission from anybody. This has to do with our religious duty and responsibilities. This is our choice, and we have no fear."

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2005/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_2.html#88464

What if those "bombs" were suitcase nukes, and the target American cities? Can't happen, you say?

If the West cannot act against an imminent threat to its existence and sustain battle engagement until the war is won, then we have lost the West and the world will end up plunged into another Dark Ages under the Mulim extremist caliphate. There was a Dark Ages in the past on earth, God allowed it once.. who is to say He will not again?

And you have a point about Attila being successful by committing himself to killing and being a warrior when he went to war, with no quarter given. That is the kind of enemy we have.. and appeasement with them does not work. We will see if those using the Attila gameplan or those going by polite civilized rules of warfare.. are victorious in the end of this conflict. It is like watching a boxing ring where the other side is no holds barred.. and we are fighting by the Marquess of Queensberry rules for gentlemen boxers. You remember how the American forces fought against the British and won by their 'uncivilized' war tactics.. seems to me we have a case of history repeating itself now - only those fighting with the new and brutal tactics are the terrorists, and the US is in the place those British troops were. Note the British gave up and lost that war, with the result that those employing the new and more vicious battle tactics won.. such a scenerio does not bode well for the continuation of the West as we now know it. Those who cover this up, scoffing at the possibility, are no different than the mad dictator of Rome who played while Rome burned.

Sara.

-- November 5, 2006 11:41 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara: well written post. You are very accurate in your assessment. I think Europe is sleepwalking toward a cliff. America will sustain itself in the coming Islamic onslaught, this century. I don't think much of Europe will survive, though. Very few people in the West are clued in to what they will soon be up against, very soon.

-- November 5, 2006 3:54 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

I just saw Georges Sada on FOX

They're going to bring him back to answer questions in few minutes

-- November 5, 2006 5:15 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Chris, take notes!!

Tim Bitts - thanks. :)

Saddam Hussein sentenced to death

Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging.

The former Iraqi leader was convicted over the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail following an assassination attempt on him in 1982.

His half-brother Barzan al-Tikriti and Iraq's former chief judge Awad Hamed al-Bandar were also sentenced to death.

Former Vice-President Taha Yassin Ramadan got life in jail and three others received 15-year prison terms.

Another co-defendant, Baath party official Mohammed Azawi Ali, was acquitted.

Saddam Hussein and his co-defendants will be given the right to appeal, but that is expected to take only a few weeks and to end in failure for the defendants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm

So the appeal process will be a few weeks.. they say.

Sara.

-- November 5, 2006 5:57 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Media Shocker: New WaPo-ABC News Poll Shows GOP Gaining Strength
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 5, 2006

I’ve had to check and double-check the link on this one, sports fans, and highly imagine you’ll do the same. Irrespective of how implausible this seems, the Washington Post has just published results of a new poll it did with ABC News, and the numbers show quite a tightening in the public’s preference for Democrats and Republicans in the upcoming elections.

In this most recent poll, Democrats were preferred to win the House next Tuesday 51 percent to the Republican’s 45 percent amongst likely voters, a margin of 6 percent. Two weeks ago, it was 55 to 41 percent, a 14 point margin. This is a huge decrease in just two weeks.

Checking that link about now? Well, there's more.

Right track/wrong track stats showed a large change as well. This was a 34 point spread favoring wrong track two weeks ago, shrinking to only a 20 point spread in this poll. Also showing movement was which party was preferred to handle conditions in Iraq. In the current poll, respondents rated the parties equally, with both getting 42 percent. This was an eight point improvement for Republicans in just two weeks.

http://newsbusters.org/node/8835

-- November 5, 2006 7:54 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All,

I've been off the board for a few days ( dealing with my mom's health issues)

Hope you all enjoyed the break :}

Anyway, since we are all the betting type...I'm taking bets on who will die first for their crimes....

Saddam or Scott Peterson?

My guess would be Saddam!

The Iraqi justice system may put us to shame!!!( In this case it would be welcomed).

In both cases, Sara's right; it ain't over till it's over...

Carole

-- November 5, 2006 9:33 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Saddam to get the noose,

I can not even start to imagine the emotions in turmoil right now in Iraq, over the man that have ruled them for so many years without any compassion for the peoples well being. A psychotic man, killing anything that is in his way, and in some cases for enjoyment only.

For us this is news, it is worthy of first pages and long analyses, but we are far away from the scene where Saddam really ruled.

A mark in time, is in our country far and few between, the death of Lincoln, FDR, and Kennedy, the Japanese attack on Perl, and 9/11. Those dates are in our national consciousness, but Saddam for us, is just another Hitler gone. For the Iraqis that were there, it is more than just another dictator gone, it was THEIR dictator gone.

For the Iraqis the events taking place right now is truly a mark in time for them.

Saddam a Sunni, but that was not necessary a safe thing to be for all Sunnis.

Saddam killed anything.

He was a true tyrant, ruling with fear and death, and he did it often.

Probably no one in Iraq is untouched by Saddam.

There will be a puh over there.

Let him swing, he have deserved it well.

-- November 5, 2006 11:02 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,
Nero didn't really play his fiddle when Rome burned, they probably didn't have fiddles in Rome by that time. Nero is accused of burning Rome for his own purposes, but probably other forces had more to win on it. The rebuilt of Rome bankrupted Nero.

As the tale of the apple that fell on Newton, it's a good analogy and tale, and valid in that respect. Historically it sucks, but hey, we can't get rid of the picture of a happily fiddle playing Nero giving a concert to himself in the light of a flaming city.

Anyhow, yes, when Saddam swings, that will be the "puh" moment in Iraq.

-- November 5, 2006 11:37 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,
So me and Carl are members of some religion that suppress women??? Uh, whatever you say Carole, (smiling, rolling my eyes, shaking my head), Yes Carole, I'm pretty sure that's the way it is.

-- November 5, 2006 11:41 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Great, you showed me a piece I didn't know it even existed. I have never seen the philosophy of Attila. Well he was pretty successful.

By the way, you are late with your monthly payment to the Flying Spaghetti Monsters sect. I had a consultation with him, ( well at least a taped lecture for $100 bucks), and I cant tell you all the secrets until you pay up, but I can tell you a little bit of the secrets of the universe according to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The FSM created God, that created another God that created another God, that created.....this goes on for about four hundred years, so I take a break here and get to the end.

Anyhow, so there was a couple of billion Gods floating around and was getting so darn bored looking onto empty space, that they decided to create a physical universe to dive into and get lost.

They left ten Gods behind that had a game to dig out all the other Gods out of the mess, they divided the universe into ten different sections and the God that digged out the other Gods first, would win a microwave oven.

Out of the ten sectors, our sector is last in the game, and the FSM are considering replacing this God with someone that will get the work done.

There is talk about a junta of Gods that will enforce the universal principles, and not only talk about them.

Anyhow, your next step is the fetus and blood initiation, and as a symbol of full membership, you will be awarded a ride on the tomato horse.

-- November 6, 2006 12:03 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Have a q for you. Have read about the oil in Alberta, the amount seem to be very very big, and this is a fact as far as I can read.

However, the majority of the oil is in shale, and the oil they are taking up right now is what can be called, the "easy pickings" from wells or in the form of oil slurry.

From what I can read, the technology of getting the oil from the shale itself is there, (and have been there for a very long time back) but it is just not economical feasible to process it, just yet. The oil in Colorado, Israel and a lot of other places, is just that, in shale.

I had got the impression that they were actually processing the shale itself in Alberta, but it seems that they are in fact taking up something else, not the pure shale oil. I read all this from one article only, they get it wrong on occasion, so can you please fill me in of what exactly are you pumping up there in the snow country?

The reason I'm asking is that the reports here is that the Colorado oil is not yet feasible to pump, and I just see it as a contradiction that they would do it in Alberta but not in Colorado, that's why I see it as plausible that they are not doing the pure shale there. I can assume the technology of doing it would not be a Canadian state secret, Germans and Swedes did it from shale during WW2, and I suppose other have done it as well.

So what exactly are we doing up there?

-- November 6, 2006 12:15 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Could see on TV a lot of celebratory gun fire over there...tell us whats going on.

-- November 6, 2006 12:18 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

One Dinar dealer reports that orders for Dinars have been coming in rapidly after the Saddam verdict. He claims the phone have been ringing off the hook.

At least it shows that confidence in the future for Iraq is growing.

-- November 6, 2006 12:20 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N.

If the Dinar revals to 75Cents, it will NOT bankrupt Iraq.

You proposed that this might be too high of a figure because it will bankrupt Iraq, and I feel it's time for the finance lecture again.

For the example, lets just say they reevaluate the Iraqi currency to ONE Dollar = ONE Dinar.

It's a false idea that the banks are paying you Dollars, and the Iraqi Dinars are packed into paper boxes, and returned to Iraq for a bank demand payment in Dollars.

When you go to the bank and exchange your Dinars you have already payed the bank handsomely.

From our point of view, the Dollar is the "real" money, because that's what we get payed in, we buy things with it, and are dealing with it in all forms possible. The Dinars for us is not more than a bill sitting in a safety box, waiting to be exchanged for the "real" money.

However, as the Dinar is worth 1 to 1 in value, you will not go to the bank and "get away "with anything, you are walking into the bank with something in value equal to the Dollar. From the banks perspective, it doesn't matter if the bill says Dollar or Dinar, it has the value it has. The bank will have a buy and sell price, and possibly a transaction fee, that's how they make their money.

If the Dinar is worth exactly as much as a Dollar, the bank is holding a currency that only shifted in face, from one currency to another, but it did not shift in value.

A bank can buy a holding in Guatemala with Dinars as well as Dollars, or keep the Dinars for future increase, or sell it for Yen, or ...or...or.

The Dinar will not go back to Iraq for demand of payment, why should they, they have already in itself all the value the bank bought for your Dollars you so happy walked away with.

If Iraq revalues to lets say ONE Dinar = ONE Dollar, that means only that Iraq got rich in a hurry, it didn't go bankrupt in a hurry.

If they have ten trillion Dinars out there, suddenly there is ten trillion Dinars out there that have the equal value of the Dollar.

For other reasons I don't think the 1 to 1 is feasible, but I hold more that 10 cents or thereabout is more reasonable, but that's another story.

-- November 6, 2006 12:40 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

Nero and Rome burning is a good analogy, and does have some historical support:

It was said by Tacitus that Nero viewed the fire from the tower of Maecenas, and exulting, as Nero said, "with the beauty of the flames," he sang the whole time the "Sack of Ilium," in his regular stage costume. Rumours circulated that Nero had played his lyre and sung, on top of Quirinal Hill, while the city burned. (Tacitus, Ann. xv; Suetonius, Nero xxxvii; Dio Cassius, R.H. lxii.) In recent years, this has turned into a popular legend that Nero had fiddled while Rome burned; although this is anachronistic as the fiddle had not yet been invented. It could be that "fiddled" is a metaphor and meant 'squandered' and thus can be interpreted as 'Nero squandered his time as Rome burned'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome

In this case I was indeed using a metaphor analogy for those who ignore the threat (in this case, not of fire, but of terrorism) while "Rome" burns - squandering and making poor use of the time before the flames reach the palace (Nero's palace also burned - Annals XV, 40-41, referenced in the above url). It is an appropriate analogy, IMO.

As for your mocking any God at all with your "straw man" argument of a Flying Spaghetti Monster.. I wonder.. if you are trying to cause offense to any who believe in God?

I also wonder how you will feel when you come face to face with that which you mock and have to look into those eyes and give account of the words you have written here. I wonder if you will be so full of bluster and courage then - in the face of absolute reality and truth. I think not. The question then will be.. not did PEOPLE - such as those reading this board - take offense at these words of yours.. but.. did GOD take offense at them? Do you think that He winks at such words spoken in mockery against the very concept that He exists? I understand from your words that you are not a God-fearing man.. but what excuse will die on your lips in that day.. It just makes those who do believe in God wonder.

I speak this In His fear.. and love - because I meant no harm but only to correct..
before you regret heartily your foolhardiness toward the Almighty..
because in that day, you won't have Carl or anyone else to encourage you in such folly..
or to laugh with you about such a joke:

Jud 1:14-15 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

I hope you will not be in that company of those whom HE considers to have spoken against Him - by such jesting about His Lordship or Dominion.. or existence, even. It is not wise to joke about so serious a thing, I think.

Sara.

-- November 6, 2006 1:09 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

As for my reaction to CYMRU001's post..
I didn't see it as shaking the dust off my feet, but only as a human reaction to what had been posted - and an expected one since CY wrote in the post, "I fully expect to recieve a wave of indignation.."

It is just that when CY addressed me directly and said that he/she wished explanations of Scriptural things.. (the paragraph of questions on the Book of Daniel) then said my references to the Bible made my posts "skippable" in their view (I do tend to scroll straight through your posts when you make reference the bible), which I felt contradicted the request for clarification of the Scriptural questions on Daniel in the first part of the post - then added more insult to injury by saying that I ought not to be wasting the time of the board replying to such requests... (when he/she just made such a request him/herself!!) well.. I took some offense and replied that if it was unwelcome, I certainly would NOT "waste the time of the board" by answering the Scriptural questions CYMRU had just brought up. Maybe it was wrong to be ticked, maybe it was just human..

But I didn't really see what I did as the godly judgement God spoke of in the "dusting" Scripture.
It was.. just me, not Jesus.

A similar case:
When there were some people who did not receive Jesus once, His disciples saw it and took offense:

Luk 9:54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?"

Luk 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of."

Although I cannot tell properly (my own judgement being less than perfect), I am much more concerned that Jesus would think me of a different spirit than His spirit (which was to seek and to save that which is lost - Luke 19:10), rather than not harsh enough so as to be pronouncing judgement upon those who don't receive what I have imperfectly presented. Life, hopefully, is long.. and I do wish for CYMRU001 that that person would come to know God and not hold against me that I was "that stupid Christian" who once posted in anger toward them on a Dinar board and would not answer their questions about the book of Daniel and what it meant. I just don't wish to be in the way of someone getting to know God. So, respectfully, no.. I don't agree with the dusting off of feet Scripture in the case of this person.. I still hope that CYMRU001 might seek God with all their heart and find Him, one day.

Jer 29:13 And you shall seek Me and find Me, when you shall search for Me with all your heart.

And, so.. too.. the others on this board who do not yet know Him personally.

Sara.

-- November 6, 2006 2:29 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

The Kurds continue to push the envelope in their desire for a normal country. Good for them!!

Let the Shi'ites and Sunnis kill each other off and then the Kurds can run the entire country....I'll bet they could do a pretty good job of it.
====================================================================================
An Oil Rush in (Yes) Iraq
The Kurds may be sitting on buried treasure, and foreign firms want to do business
06/11/2006
Source: USNews
>
>
>

But the real question is who gets to sign the contracts and manage the fields. And on this point the Kurds won't budge-Iraq's Constitution, they say, gives them control over so-called future fields (existing fields are controlled by the central government, and the fate of those in Kirkuk will be decided by a referendum next year). "In management of new fields, we are adamant that we will not share with federal authorities," says Ashti Hawrami, an English-trained petroleum engineer who is the new minister of natural resources. "Planning, coordination-no problem. But who has the right to write contracts? We can consult with the center, but the ultimate authority lies with the [Kurds]."

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=2503

-- November 6, 2006 6:40 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

I see you have crawled back out from under your rock!! Welcome back(ugh!)

The Wiccan way of life EMULATES the female over the male gender. Do you not know what the word EMULATES mean?
How about the word EXALTS?

You know, I was under the impression that you had a lot of respect and "hugs" for Sara. If this is true, I think she just gave you some advice, that you would be very wise to take.

She is so gracious in her HANDLING of you and Carl.

I give her alot of credit.

But she is right, it doesn't matter what either one of us think ( or Carl for that matter), it is what you will have to face when you are about to take your last breath.

If you would like a preview of the possibilites of that moment, I would recommend reading VOICES ON THE EDGE OF ETERNITY.

Makes me fear for you----really.

-- November 6, 2006 7:09 AM ∞

---

CYMRU001 wrote:

Sara,

I would like you to know that I for one don't consider you to be "that stupid Christian". Your posts are far too informative and well written for you to be anything but stupid. I will read the book of Daniel, only to find the answers to the questions I asked. I did look up an earlier reference to the bible just to understand the meaning "Proverbs 31, posted by Willie 29 Oct @18.47 hrs. By the way, I am not Willie!!

I am not saying you shouldn't post anything religious, that is your right on this board to post what you like, I was merely asking for it to be toned down.

I am not particularly religious, that is true, but I am not anti religion. I don't read the religious parts of your posts because they don't do anything for me. I do read most of what you do write.

I can't remember who wrote in a previous post that we all can scroll through anything we don't want to read.

I know it did seem contradictory to ask you not to post stuff on religion and then ask for an explanation, I just felt that when I read the post, it raised more questions than it answered.

-- November 6, 2006 9:08 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

This is a general comment to the forum and all I can say is "if the shoe fits....then wear it!"

====================================================================================
"Bible thumper"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bible thumper (also Bible basher) is a derisive term used to describe Christian fundamentalists, or anyone perceived as aggressively pushing their religious beliefs upon those who do not share them.

As an insult, its target domain is broad and can often extend to anyone engaged in a public show of religiosity, fundamentalist or not.

The term alludes to a preacher thumping his hand hard down on the lectern and the Bible on it to emphasize a point during a sermon.

Sid Meier used the term in his PC game "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" to refer to the religious fundamentalist faction, with remarks made by the other factions in the game along the lines of "they're too busy bible-thumping and it's cutting into their bible-reading" to suggest that they had lost sight of the bible's true teachings.

It is also the name of a Bible-study program for Palm OS which contains the full text of the King James Bible. This is a good, albeit possibly somewhat tongue in cheek, example of an insult being reclaimed as a positive description.

-- November 6, 2006 10:12 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Okie,

Good Morning to you and hope you are safe and well.

I don't know if your" if the shoe fits" alludes to me or Sara ( since we both seem to ascribe to the Bibke as our blue print in life).
But I can think of a lot of worse things to be though of as other than a bible thumper.

The truth is that I know more of the Bible than I live, I am very sorry to say. But The Lord is not finished with me yet. I am a work in progress!!! SOmedays faster than others...:}
I love the bumper sticker that says ..a christian is not perfect, just forgiven.

Carole

-- November 6, 2006 10:23 AM ∞

---

GOD wrote:

Dear Sara and Carole,

This is God writing to you. I just got done have a great lunch with Jesus. He informed me that you have become incredibly annoying to others with Bible talk. Please stop or I'll give you a cancer. Get back to talking about Dinars. I have a stake in this too.

-- November 6, 2006 11:10 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Your insulting the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I hope for your sake you will repent. I'm really woried for you being on your errant spiritual sideway, listening to false Gods as you are. Dont worry about my relationship with Sara, she has a completely different spiritual understanding than you have, even though you talk about the same God.

-- November 6, 2006 11:30 AM ∞

---

Osama bin Laden wrote:

Greetings, infidels. I was just looking in. You might say, Osama bin Watchin'. Death to Infidels! Greetings to the Bush Neo-Con Haliburton Zionist Capitalists at this site.

I am also much dismayed at all the religious talk on this website. I was just saying to my fourth wife Margrih and my seventeeth son, Barteth, that women should have no time for idle talk. My fourteenth daughter Lisha agreed.

Also, what place does discussing religion have in the middle of a religious war? What use is that? Praise be to Allah.

Well, my camel is double parked. I must go.

I must go pray for the Democrats to win big tomorow.

Selah

-- November 6, 2006 12:02 PM ∞

---

Yoda wrote:

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind)
That each by observation
Might satisfy their mind

The First Approached the Elephant
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me, 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third, approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee
"What most this wonderous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed long and hard,
Each in his own opinion
Exceedingly stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

-American poet John Godfrey Saxe, visiting India, 1847

-- November 6, 2006 12:38 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

I find the discussions on religion interesting and informative, and often very well written. I have no problem with people posting religious stuff on this site, even though I'm not that religious.

-- November 6, 2006 12:47 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

I have to admit I've never considered myself a "Holy Roller" but I've often wondered how it would feel to pray to God, with a snake wrapped around my neck,while rolling on the floor.
===================================================================================
• Time; October 12, 1936; "When Jesus Christ first appeared to His assembled disciples after His resurrection, He told them that believers 'shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents' (Mark: 16:17, 18). To many a U. S. religionist of the Pentecostal or "Holy Roller" variety, the 'gift of tongues' has long been vivid reality."

-- November 6, 2006 1:29 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, Alberta has 'heavy oil'. It is still very expensive to recover. The technology is improving all the time. Alberta will be the number one source of imported crude oil, for America, within ten years, using currently available technology.

There are 300 million recoverable barrels of oil up there, based on current technology. There is another trillion barrels available, if technology improves enough to make it feasible. By contrast, the whole middle east holds about 685 million recoverable barrels.

As you know, even with security concerns in some countries, the middle eastern oil is still much cheaper. So the Alberta oil boom depends on high oil prices, and a constant growth in demand for oil worldwide.

The "oil" is very heavy. It's like a mixture of silly putty and coffee grounds, and takes a lot of refining. It's not at all like the high quality, cheap to produce, "sweet crude" sitting under Iraq.

Syncrude is one of the leading companies in this, and they have been up in Fort MacMurray for twenty five years, doing this. Shell and Cheveron are also up there.

It's quite something to see. They mine the stuff in open mines, and then using giant backhoes, load the stuff onto trucks that are over 20 feet high by about 40 feet long.

Iraqi crude only costs a dollar a barrel to extract, so I'm guessing we will all be very well off some day. Go dinar!

This is becoming better know, worldwide. President Bush talked about "the Alberta Tar Pits" in one of his speaches. If an American President ever gets serious about getting off dependence on overseas oil, Alberta would be a good place to look. The only catch is, it's expensive, so bring lots of money.

-- November 6, 2006 1:56 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

The Many Paths to God

I believe we each have a soul. And that soul comes from God. It is a part of God – which means you are a part of God.

I believe every man and woman has the power of God within them. It is our inheritance, as we are all the children of God. And God would not abandon us in the world without giving us the way back home. And the way back is our soul. Me, you, we all are the way back to God.

We have all been given a heart, a mind, and a soul – these are the greatest gifts that God has given to us. For within these gifts lie the tremendous creative and destructive powers of the universe, to do with as we will. The power to produce disasters and to perform miracles, the power to spread ignorance or to advance enlightenment, and the power to create heaven or hell – all these powers lie within us. They rest within our hearts, our minds, and our souls. So the way to God does not lie outside in the world – it lies inside you. All you have ever needed and will ever need, lies within you, and begins and ends with you. But how you use these powers that have been given – is up to you. Use them as you so desire. And whether or not you seek to find the way back, is up to you also. Live as you so desire.

People take many paths to God. Some people pray. Some meditate. Some go to temples, churches, and mosques. Some do good deeds. Some read holy books. Some do not even seek the path to God.
Every person is different and unique, and everyone stands at a different crossroads in their own life - so what may be the better path for one person, may not be so for another. And I, I do not know which path is better for which person. For I am not any other person – I am only me. Perhaps a person needs to change paths many times before they find God - but eventually, every person, if they truly desire, will eventually find their way back to God. For just as all paths in the ancient world led to Rome, all paths in the universe ultimately lead to God.

All things in the universe were created by God, and so all things have the handprint of God’s love within them. God is within you, and God is within me - God is inside everyone. God is with us always, just as we are always with God. The Creator lives within the Created.

God. Is. Everywhere.

So all paths in the universe lead back to God – including you. You yourself are one of the many paths to God.

-- November 6, 2006 2:26 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Tim.. :)

And thanks, Roger.. you know my heart toward you is good, even if I sometimes make a muddle of things, quite unintentionally, I assure you. :)

Thank you, also, CYMRU001 , that you didn't think me "stupid". I realized after posting that I had reacted in anger.. and that is never very good. (The wrath of man does not work the works (righteousness) of God - James 1:20) You are right, it is fine to scroll through anything you don't wish to read, I think even I have said so before. I was wrong to be upset.

Anyway, I am glad you read Daniel.. it is a good book. You said, "I just felt that when I read the post, it raised more questions than it answered." So here is the explanation, which seems easy to someone into the Bible, but might seem to be a bit difficult to those who do not. The first Scripture I quoted, "Dan 4:17 This decision is by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He will"... this was a prophecy to the ruler of Babylon that he would "learn" that God rules over the affairs of men and chooses who rules nations by His decree, not by their own might. Nebuchadnezzar had a problem with thinking HE was responsible for winning wars and taking over countries and building his huge empire. He was PROUD. He even said:

Dan 4:30 The king spoke, saying, "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?"

Dan 4:31 While the word was still in the king's mouth, a voice fell from heaven: "King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: the kingdom has departed from you!

Dan 4:32 And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."

Daniel 4:33 That very hour the word was fulfilled concerning Nebuchadnezzar...

So, you see, he was struck with madness for a time, he went crazy.. out of his mind.. and became like a beast for "seven times" (however long that was), whereupon his mind was restored to him, as well as his kingdom, and Nebuchadnezzar stated:

Dan 4:34 And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation.

Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

So the context is not God saying His followers are nothing - as you had questioned in your post - but was a man acknowledging God as supreme in power (Omnipotent) where before he thought himself to be so. This change of heart was forced by an act of God.

As for whether God is responsible for Hitler or Saddam's evil, no. God has no darkness or evil in Him, He is wholly and completely pure and good, truth and light:

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

And of Jesus, it is said of Him:

1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile (deceit) found in His mouth:

The God-man Jesus, and the Almighty God Himself, are alike in being sinless and without deceit. Also:

Job 34:12 Yes, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

So you can see that God's character is holy and undefiled, and cannot be charged with evil or any part of darkness. In exercising His perogative as Deity and showing His Almighty power as He did with Nebuchadnezzar - this teaching does not contradict the fact that mankind are accountable for their sins to God and will be judged by Him for them. To illustrate: I may post a post quoting Scripture which Carole may read and agree with. It may be a blessing to her to read. To another person (say the real Bin Laden) reading the same post, it will bring up within them hatred and anger (I recognise and appreciate the jest in the Bin Laden post which included the words - infidels, Zionists, idle talkers - but the real Osama's reaction.. he would be honestly using these terms, wouldn't he?). Was it the post which is to blame for the different reactions? Why does it work within one person a blessing and within another a curse? Similarly, we ask why two people growing up in an alcoholic home grow up - one as an alcoholic, and the other never touching drink. It is according to the nature God put within them (which could have a genetic component, but God is over genetics, too.)

In the same way, God moves by His Holy Spirit upon men, and they act according to their own natures in response to that movement. One man will respond to the Holy Spirit with humility, another with pride, but the stimulation (the Holy Spirit) is the same. It is not the action of the Holy Spirit which is to blame, but the heart of the person receiving it.

1Sa 6:6 Why then do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts?

This speaks about people receiving from God and then they HARDEN their hearts against God, as Pharaoh did when he did not allow the Israelites to leave Egypt - through nine terrible plagues (but he did let them go after the last one). God, being All Knowing (Omnicient), knows exactly how to move upon one heart or another to get the result He wishes. His will prevails over it all, but the individuals within the work He is doing are accountable for their REACTION to what happens. In the case of President Bush, GOD moved upon his heart and the heart of all those who voted in Congress at that time, to invade Iraq. He gave them only the information they had to go on, and it was a logical decision to make, one they could not make any other way. It was, therefore, God's will for the US to invade Iraq. We know that because it is what truly happened (God's will happens in history).

So, to answer your question, God is GOOD, He is in complete control over all people, and His will is accomplished in the earth. When the evil people do evil, such as Saddam or Hitler doing atrocities against humanity, they are judged and rightly punished, in this life and the next. God is not to blame for their hard hearts, because they acted according to their own wills, and have no excuse or ability to blame God for those things which they chose to do themselves by hardening themselves against the right path. Yet, even though they did evil, GOOD will prevail, for God is over it all.

Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

God is so mighty that He can work ALL THINGS according to the counsel of His will, for His purposes. ALL THINGS.. that means EVERYTHING.. even Saddam or Hitler.. good or evil.. That is why we say He has all the power.. is Almighty - and He works all things together for the eventual goal of GOOD.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good...

Sara.

-- November 6, 2006 2:35 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts.....

The heavy oil you have in Alberta is truly a good asset...expensive but good.

The stuff we have in Colorado is oil shale and even more expensive to process. Their current thinking is to heat it before bringing it to the surface. If that doesn't prove to be feasible, then they will try another method.

Sure am glad that Canada is on our Northern border.

-- November 6, 2006 2:35 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq court to rule on Saddam verdict
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer
Nov 6, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A round-the-clock curfew imposed in the capital ahead of Saddam Hussein's conviction and death sentence eased on Monday, with residents once more allowed to walk the streets and sidewalks of their city. Around the country, jubilant Shiites celebrated the verdict, as Sunnis held defiant counter-demonstrations.

The surge in violence expected immediately after the Sunday verdict on Saddam's trial for crimes against humanity did not materialize.

Iraq's appeals court was expected to rule on Saddam Hussein's guilty verdict and death sentence by mid-January, the chief prosecutor said Monday.

Additionally, the Associated Press has learned, Iraq's three-man presidential council agreed at least six months ago not to block the death penalty for Saddam, should it be upheld on appeal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_verdict

OK, now it isn't "a few weeks" for the appeal.. but "by mid-January".

No wonder the surge in violence didn't happen.. what is there to protest?

Nothing that has been done so far is final.

Sara.

-- November 6, 2006 2:42 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sarah
That goes for the election tomorrow also. The people will decide, but God will use the decision in the way He wants. Can I hear an AMEN?

-- November 6, 2006 2:42 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sarah
That goes for the election tomorrow also. The people will decide, but God will use the decision in the way He wants. Can I hear an AMEN?

-- November 6, 2006 2:44 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Oakie: nicely put points, on religion.

-- November 6, 2006 3:11 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Why are we back discussing whether one should or should not post religious content? I do not mind reading the religious content offered by Sara and others. I recall the last time this was discussed resulted in Sara and others leaving the discussion for a period of time.

Instead of this never ending discussion as to whether religious postings are warranted here. I think our esteemed moderator should decide this once and for all.

Now, if he allows the postings, a cessation of the clamour against religious postings must end. If he decides postings of a religious theme are not warranted for the Dinar board then lets not post them. Either way, the bickering whether to post religious content ends.

Kevin, the ball is in your court. Please for the love of sanity make a decision as whether religious postings are allowed or not.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 6, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

---

Matt wrote:

I like this blog.....I read it for the info about iraq/dinar, as for the religious stuff, its not my thing, so if your like me, do as I do and skip it and move on down to what interests you, its not that hard, as for those who are that way inclined, I say, enjoy and live and let live.....

-- November 6, 2006 4:22 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie!

Excellent Post!...

Carole...

Lege....Lege ....Lege...Okie's last post I suggest many times...as you seem to have a comprehension problem

-- November 6, 2006 4:37 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

So, if "religious posts" are not allowed, what about the role of religion, in the conflict in Iraq? Will that be disallowed, as a topic of conversation?

What about if someone wants to make a few comments on the historically religious nature of the conflict between the Islamic world, and the West? Will that be disallowed, as a topic of conversation?

What about the fact that the conflict in Iraq, a place we all have invested in, has an ongoing religious conflict between various branches of Islam? This conflict has a direct bearing on the success or failure of our investment. Can that be commented on?

I could give a hundred more examples, if anyone is interested, of the intertwined relationship of our investments, religion, the conflict in Iraq, and the greater religious conflict with the Muslim world.

Sometimes, a person's personal views on religion are a jumping off point for me to refer to, and make some other general point, regarding the possibility of peace and prosperity in Iraq, which will affect our investment.

Plus, a person's personal views give me a starting point of commonality with that person, to discuss something that is related, in a broader context.

I like the attitude of people on this blog who say they just pick an choose what they want to read, according to what interests them. Personally, if something doesn't interest me, I do the same. I just skip it. It's not that hard.
I say, Live and let live.

-- November 6, 2006 5:43 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

I agree.. I see the Middle East as intimately entwined with a religious view, and not seeing that view or discussing it is not seeing the whole picture.

Also, live and let live is a good philosophy.. :)

Carl;

Study, study, study.. certainly we all seek to know more as we go along in life. :)

I think I will weigh in with one more religious post before we move on to Dinar. And we are at a lull in Dinar news right now (as far as the short term RV news), I think because of the election taking the spotlight for a while.

So... my last theological effort.. at least for a while.. a reply to Okie's post:

=======================================================

Okie wrote:

"I believe we each have a soul. And that soul comes from God."

I think so, too. We are all "children of God" or "the offspring of God", as the Apostle Paul said when he talked to the Athenians.

I think you will agree with his words:

Act 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Act 17:25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.

Act 17:26 And He has made of one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

Act 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Act 17:28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'

Act 17:29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.

So I can agree with you in this sense that we are a part of God, coming from His creative hands, His offspring.

But I also think that God is good, and man is sometimes good and sometimes evil.

Some people are corrupt, like Saddam or Hitler.

God is not in them, acting out these crimes against Humanity, and He can have nothing to do with evil for He is GOOD,

only and completely GOOD, and full of light, not darkness.

The Bible teaches God as separate from His creation - separate from us, His offspring.. as a parent and child.

Or.. in the same way that we are separate from a painting we paint.

We are not the painting, we are separate from it.

This is called TRANSCENDENCE (from Dictionary.com):

- Being above and independent of the material universe. Used of the Deity.

- Beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding.

Also, we do what we wish to do, no one constrains us to do other than that which we will to do.

We are independent and not robots - making us able to withstand God's will if we wish to

(though we are responsible for what we do in any case). We may not always do the right thing or what God would wish us to do.

That makes us different from God, separate from Him. God is good, but history teaches that man has often chosen to be evil.

God therefore is separate from man, because He is GOOD and not stained with evil, as are men.

God is so NOT like us that He had to send an intermediary (Jesus) to explain to us about Him.

He is in a place no man can ever approach to, utterly in Light. He:

1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Without this understanding of God as diffferent from us, separate from us, you would then be left

with two very conflicting wills, (the will of Light and Darkness, Good and Evil) but both being God.

This makes God no longer purely good and light, but makes it so that He must also be dark and evil.

Would any man argue that God IS evil? Would any say that it was GOD who wished the death

of millions in the ovens at concentration camps in Germany? Or thousands in the towers/planes on 911?

Who can say God wished the raping of high school girls by Saddam and his men? Or the gassing of the Kurds?

Can we justify such things by saying it is God who did this or wished it to be done?

Psa 7:11 God judges the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

How can God be angry at evil and wicked people such as those who choose to victimize, torture and kill.. every day,

if that is also what He wants and is? Here He is not saying, "Yes, you are doing exactly what is My will to do (evil)."

Evil is NOT the will of the God of the Bible who wrote the Ten Commandments and gave many laws

saying in fine detail what is in His sight sin and evil. God Himself is not evil, but only Good...

So then it is MEN, and evil within them, which does these evil acts - not God, who alone is blessed and good, never evil.

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Mankind may be His offspring.. but they are not God themselves. There is only One Good God, and men are not Him...

Men may have a spark of good in them which came from His Creative genius..

but whether they fan it to a flame of good, or turn away to evil is a personal choice we each face as separate creatures.

Sara.

-- November 6, 2006 7:28 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Carole:

When I say you have a problem with comprehension let me give you some examples

First you labeled me a Wiccan...I never told you I was a Wiccan..What I said was if you wanted to put me in a category the Wiccan AND Diest beliefs appealed to me.... for example you followed the christian concept and it is obvious you have no tolerance for any other faith..or path...

I follow many faith concepts as some parts of other faiths appeal to me and appears true to me....so just call me spiritual or a sooner...

But that does not enter into your little narrow mind....just because I defended and attempted to relate information about the Wiccan faith you made the connection..therefore he must be Wiccan...somewhere you forgot about the Diest Part...

First you accused Me... then Roger of being into WitchCraft...but of course you connected WitchCraft to Satanism...which is totally different...and has not connection what so ever to the Wiccan Faith...but what the hell its all simatics isn't it? ...How you got Roger into WitchCraft is beyond me, as Roger has been tied up in his profession and has not posted for a while...he has not even addressed WitchCraft or the Wicca faith...but again...Roger talks to Carl so lets put them both in the same bag...

Personally, I don't know if Roger, knows anything about Satanism or the Wiccan faith since we never discussed it....but again that does not matter you...

Then you said I had a bad childhood...no where in my post did I say I had a bad childhood...

Then you stated, I would not discuss my God with you...

I never told you I believe their were two gods...

I never refused to do that...I simply gave you my email address and told you to email me...I did not want to take up the boards time...as I knew the discussion would get long...and I am still waiting...

You are a prime example of how a little knowledge about something makes someone stupid enough to give them the courage to spout off, so everyone knows how clueless they are about life in general...

Your pious ass attitude toward other faiths is an embarassment to Jesus and all he stood for...You are not even close to being the caliber of Christian as Sara...so if I was you...I would not even address myself as a christian to her...how about...apprentice christian...playlike...wanna be christian..those would probably fit you better... you are the prime reason a lot of people don't want to be assoicated with your faith, because of your dim witted viewpoints of the world and everybody else is stupid...God must be trying to fiqure out a way to cancel your membership..

You don't know Roger...never met him, don't know what he looks like, does he smile, is he fun to be around or a energy vampire. Does he have a kind heart, tolerate attitude, intolerate attitude, joke alot, have a unusual wit, what is his nationality, his education, his professional background, is he short, tall, large frame, small frame...?

Yet! you state he crawled out from under a rock...Carole you have a dark, judgemental heart and you excercise it because he does not follow your concept of the faith you have chosen...and he labeled one of your nazi attitude post for what it was...

Personally! I believe you played with the O.J Board to long, and you have a couple of entities still hanging around you...(you were stupid as shit to be doing that you know) I believe you may want to consider a exocism or maybe at least a smugging...

But then again...I don't know if you should go to a Conservative Protestant Minister over a 14,000 member church or a Catholic Priest...I don't know what this world is coming too...it seems you can't tell the difference anymore..

-- November 6, 2006 8:04 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

...sticks and stones........

Take a chill pill, you are gonna have a stroke!!

I never started the fuss. You and Roger took the first jabs and I dished it back.

Obviously you can't take the heat, so get out of the kitchen.

It is also obvious to me that some of the discussions here are way over your head, as well as some are way beneath you.

You do have the power to scroll past any of it, you know.

You are right, I don't know you, Roger or anyone else on this board.

''''but words paint a thousand pictures!!!lol

Now, Take a deep breath, relax, watch a good movie, take 2 tylenol and call someone else in the morning.......

Carole

-- November 6, 2006 10:04 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Polls, Predictions and Why You Shouldn't Believe Them
Posted by Matthew Sheffield on November 6, 2006 - 16:53.

How accurate are polls at predicting a winner? Not too. So long as a candidate is within 10 points, most polls shouldn't be readily relied on as predictors for who will win. Charles Franklin, a political science professor at the University of Wisconsin has an interesting post today about just how important the "margin of error" really is.

On a graph, Franklin compares poll results with actual election results, resulting in several observations, one of which is the importance of realizing that polls cannot reliably predict races that are less than 10 points apart.

The parties themselves are also the biggest indicator of which seats are competitive. If you look at it as detailed as Jay Cost does here, a picture emerges, not of a Democratic sweep but of uncertainty:

http://newsbusters.org/node/8877

USA Today Buries Critical Finding in Article About its Own Poll
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 5, 2006 - 22:12.

Imagine if you will that a month ago, a major newspaper, in combination with a major polling organization, had pronounced that the Republicans were ahead by 23 percentage points in voter preference for the upcoming midterm elections. Further imagine that just two weeks ago, this lead had been trimmed to thirteen. And, just for argument’s sake, with two days to go before the pivotal elections, the Democrats had cut this lead to only seven points. Do you think the opening paragraph in the article on this subject by this major, left-leaning newspaper might address this?

Well, USA Today just posted an article at its website concerning a new poll done with the Gallup Organization (this author is waiting with baited breath for the full results to be published!), and the most important finding of the survey didn’t come until the sixth paragraph (emphasis mine): “What's more, President Bush's last-ditch push for votes and Sen. John Kerry's comments that seemed to denigrate the education level of U.S. forces in Iraq have helped energize GOP voters. A Democratic advantage of 23 percentage points a month ago and 13 points two weeks ago is now down to 7.”

Of course, the entire poll has not been published yet for further scrutiny. However, with the full results already out from the Washington Post/ABC News poll, and Pew Research Center confirming what USA Today is now reporting, this has been quite a trifecta that must be giving liberal media types across the country a very bad Sunday regardless of how their football teams did this weekend.

Makes one wonder if the Maalox supplies at pressrooms coast to coast are sufficient to accommodate the demand tomorrow

http://newsbusters.org/node/8849

-- November 6, 2006 10:23 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Well, I certainly did not gain much information about the Dinar on these last few days of posts

-- November 6, 2006 11:09 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Figured, it was time to post some dinar related info:

11 Iraqi banks agree to launch a specialized company to finance special projects
With direct support from the Central Bank and the American Agency
02 November 2006 (Al-Sharq al-Awsat)

Eleven Iraqi banks, with the direct support from Iraqi Central Bank and the American Agency for Development, announced the establishment of the Iraqi company for loans that provides financial liquidity for those wishing to establish small projects. About this project, applied for the first time in Iraq, the banking expert, Izz al-Din Muhammad Abid, said: this Company is complementary to the Iraqi Company for Banking Guarantees which was established a short while ago with a total capital of three and a half million dollars. It aims at enhancing the obtainment of small, medium-sized and minor enterprises in Iraq on loans from private banks, in addition to supporting the use of modern practices of credit and international banking standards in granting loans to small and medium-sized enterprises. All of this is to support the continuing economic growth in Iraq, and especially the support and development of the private sector. Giving small and medium-sized enterprises this importance stems from the fact that they share the spirit of individual initiative; that is, starting a project by an individual to improve his standard of living. It should also be noted that these projects constitute a significant proportion of economic activity for many countries in the world, whether they were developing or developed; they also constitute a high proportion of enterprises that widely contribute in developing the economies of these countries, especially the developed ones. Such projects, generate self-employment and jobs and participate in helping the important groups in the labor market, as well as having several important advantages like: working with simple, low-cost and local materials within a limited area, as well as working with primary skills and techniques; in addition to the possibility of easily adapting to the new circumstances in the market and the rapid response to its needs. Finally, they contribute in the rehabilitation or changing infrastructures and equipment; such as inventing agriculture and construction tools or producing essential services commodities in times of crisis. In response to a question concerning the establishment of this Company to study the conditions of projects in Iraq, and the possibility of exposure to profit or loss, Izz al-Din, explained that in spite of facing small and medium-sized enterprises for numerous problems and challenges, especially in times of unstable security, but, and as much as it concerns the banking system, the main problem facing them is cash funding for the establishment and support of these projects. Thus, the foundation of the Iraqi Company for Banking Guarantees, in the time being, forms the mainstay of such projects, in order to assist them in obtaining loans from Iraqi private banks to participate in the capital of the Company, in addition to helping those banks through the utilizing the amount of the guarantee for the development of managing loans and their risks. The Company is owned by (11) Iraqi banks supported by the Iraq Central Bank due to its important part in deepening the role of the Iraqi market. The guarantee amounts differ according to the type of risks associated with them; they could reach 75% of the value of the original loan, which ranges from $ 5000 to $ 25000. The company's operations are based on developing institutions and building the financial capacity of banks and the Company itself when marketing and the applying the program of loans guarantee. The Company's activity will cover all of Iraq by the network branches of the banks involved in such comprehensive coverage. It will assist small and medium-sized enterprises to enter the world of credit in all Iraqi provinces. The Company will provide loans with a high level of quality for the productive, service, agricultural and commercial projects throughout guaranteeing the banking loans offered by the participating banks. Accordingly, we can say that the company achieved a step or steps forward on the way of developing and modernizing the Iraqi banking system.

-- November 6, 2006 11:16 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Saudi Arabia grants 1.5 billion dollars to Iraq
November 05, 2006
The Iraqi delegation called on Kuwait to drop its debt.Dr. Barham Salih, Deputy Prime Minister and Head of the Iraqi delegation to the International Conference in Kuwait, along with Dr. Muwaffaq Rubaie, the National Security Adviser and the accompanying delegation met with the President of the Kuwaiti National Assembly Jassem Mohammad Al-Khorafi and discussed bilateral and parliamentary relations as well as ways of developing them and unify stances in international assemblies.

He stressed the necessity of eliminating the effects of past and enhance the cooperation between the two brotherly nations. They also thanked the Kuwaiti people and government for their support to Iraq in difficult circumstances. Dr. Muwaffaq Rubaie also met with the Prince of Kuwait, Sheikh Sabah Ahmed Sabah, and discussed the issue of Kuwaiti debt on Iraq, reconstruction and cooperation between the two countries in all fields.

Dr. Barham Salih said that the security situation in Iraq will witness some improvement if Syria cooperate with the Iraqi government to work on controlling the border and prevent the infiltration of terrorists.

Saleh said in a joint press conference with the Special Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ashraf Qazi, after the preparatory meeting of the International Covenant with Iraq, which was concluded in Kuwait yesterday: that Syria need to work harder, with greater credibility and must be aware of the gravity of the situation in Iraq, and make serious changes to deal with the political and security conditions in Iraq. The National Security Advisor Dr. Muwaffaq Rubaie revealed in another a press conference held on the sidelines of the same preparatory meeting that a senior official from one of the neighboring countries, will visit Iraq during the next few days to find a political solution for the benefit of Iraq on the security level, without mentioning the name of the official or the state. But unofficial sources in Kuwait reported that the official, who intended to visit Baghdad in this regard, is the Syrian Foreign Minister Waleed Al-Mu'allim.

About the question of, "Assabah" on the timetable of the political and economic reforms that have been agreed to take place in the meeting, and whether Iraq possesses the suitable environment for conducting such reforms, the Deputy Prime Minister said that the commitments made by Iraq to the international community of political and economic reforms over the next four years, stem from knowing the requirements of achieving stability in the country, and based on the initiative of the Prime Minister in the national reconciliation and the government's program of action in the coming stage, as well as other economic agreements signed as part of the debt write-off of the Paris Club. He pointed out that Iraq will implement these reforms, which are in the interest of the Iraqi people, according to the vision of the elected government that represents it, with or without the international support. At the same time, he hoped for the international community's serious stand with Iraq to cross it to shore safely.

He pointed out that there are many of the accounts are cleared at the expense of the Iraqi people and the Iraqi leadership is well aware of the gravity of the situation, which can not continue. Everybody must understand that the instability in Iraq will reflect negatively on the whole region, and those who want to manipulate the security of Iraq should reap the consequences. He called on the neighboring countries to assume their responsibilities in this regard and cooperate against terrorism, which threatens the region.

He pointed out that the problem of financial and administrative corruption, is the most important obstacle to the work of the Iraqi government and instigates the security situation in Iraq. He confirmed that among the articles of the Covenant submitted by Iraq to the international community, is to deal with this problem that can not be ignored, uprooting corruption and collaborating with partners in order to achieve all of the aforementioned reforms.

New offers were received during the preparatory meeting of the Covenant and new financial commitments in support of Iraq by the United States, the European Union and Saudi Arabia, which pledged $ 1 billion provided to Iraq in the form of grants, aid and loans, as well as (500) million dollars provided for the private sector in Iraq. He stressed that Iraq would be able to obtain clear commitments from the international community after launching the International Covenant in providing economic support, grants, facilitated loans, debt write-off and canceling penalties from the previous decades, in addition to providing technical assistance and encourage the Iraqi private sector. On his part, Special Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ashraf Qazi, expected a broader regional and international participation in the International Covenant with Iraq to be held late this year. He pointed out that the entire world is interested in the stability of the situation in Iraq. Al-Rubaie said, in a speech delivered at the preparatory meeting of the Conference that the conditions are very difficult and, the Iraqi government is still seeking to achieve this goal in addition to national reconciliation. Economic reform as well as international and regional support for Iraq's efforts represents an important element in enhancing the security situation and restore stability in the country.

He pointed out that the Iraqi government has launched the plan of national reconciliation in order to expand the participation of the parties involved in the initiative, regardless of their ideology and policy.(Source)AlSabah

-- November 6, 2006 11:19 PM ∞

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AGNOSTIC wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this site for almost a year. And I have posted before. But all of this GOD talk has me stumped. I understand if some of you live and die by the word. Most of my family is religious as well. My mom has tried to keep me in the fold several times. But I will say that my time in the military stymied my religious beliefs and ambitions. When one Military Chaplin can get up and give 4 different Religious point of views you have to wonder. So being the questioning person I am I started researching this Religious thing. Religion has been used throughout time to control the general population. If a King or Pharaoh wanted to stay in control then they wrote what they wanted into the Religion of the time. I say that because Religion as we know it changes to support the people in control before the modern times. Back in the time before modern thought and access to information the theory of Blind Faith was brought forth. This has transcended time as much as Religion itself has. But if you are truly inquisitive and don't have the blinders on then you can ask some serious questions.

1. If there is one GOD how did we end up with all of these different sects and denominations?
2. Why are there so many different views in the same Denomination? I.E. Missionary Baptist, Southern Baptist, Catholic, Methodist to Jehovah Witness?
3. How do you explain drawings of flying machines in the pyramids or ancient caves?
4. Why do Catholics not let women preach or marry outside of the faith, or let them practice birth control?
5. Why the different KINGS version of the Bible?
6. Do you believe in Incest? If not how do you explain Adam and Eve and the population of the earth?
7. Why is there no mention of Dinosaurs or Prehistoric creatures in the Bible?
8. Why did Islam become so violent? Do you see Extremist Catholics, or Baptist? Any Methodist Jihad lately?

I do not fault anyone for their views and do not try to force mine on them. But seriously some of you on this forum need to ask some questions or at least think about it. Becoming Agnostic was not a short path for me, but I do believe there is a supreme being(s). Just not sure what that means at this point in life. I know that I try treat everyone as I would like to be treated, and respect their opinion. But all of the scripture on here is a bit distracting. Those that quote scripture, did you get into this on your own? Or did someone guide you into it? This is a legitimate question. After all. this was meant to be an Investment related discussion around the Dinar.

This will be my last post on this subject but I could not take it any longer without posting. Regardless of Wicca, Agonistic, Catholic, or Christian. Respect your belief's and ours, and keep this to our financial endeavors. However, if there are thoughtful responses we may converse further.

-- November 6, 2006 11:21 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

An Oil Rush in (Yes) Iraq

11/6/2006 U.S.News - By Bay Fang
The Kurds may be sitting on buried treasure, and foreign firms want to do business

LONDON - In a small townhouse in the financial district here, a high-ceilinged room is packed to capacity with oil executives in dark suits. They are men from all over the world, representing some of the largest multinational oil companies, and they sit in rows like schoolchildren, assiduously taking notes. At the front of the room, the minister of natural resources from the Kurdistan Regional Government in northern Iraq is speaking, his English fluent. On the wall behind him is a large map of potential oil fields in the Kurdish region and the beginning of a PowerPoint presentation that reads, "Oil Can Be a Source of Stability."

The government of Iraq may be far from ready to welcome foreign investment into its oil sector right now but, like it or not, the Kurds are moving ahead. While the government in Baghdad is still haggling over its petroleum law and violence wracks much of the country, the Kurds are about to pass their own oil law. They have already signed contracts with a handful of foreign oil companies, and they're aggressively wooing more. The question now is whether these attempts to sign separate contracts, establish a parallel legal regime, and attract much-needed foreign investment will be a source of stability or instability in a country that knows far too much of the latter and very little of the former.

Money. The dispute over oil goes to the heart of the political debate in Iraq. The Kurdish region, currently the only autonomous region in Iraq, has enjoyed self-rule since 1991. Earlier this month, the Shiite-dominated parliament in Baghdad passed a federalism law, allowing other regions to be formed-but not for another year and a half. The law was hotly debated because although the Shiites would like to create their own zone in their oil-rich heartland in the south, the Sunnis fear being left with only an area in resource-poor central Iraq. An agreement empowers the federal government to receive all oil revenues and redistribute them to the regions according to population and "needs."

But the real question is who gets to sign the contracts and manage the fields. And on this point the Kurds won't budge-Iraq's Constitution, they say, gives them control over so-called future fields (existing fields are controlled by the central government, and the fate of those in Kirkuk will be decided by a referendum next year). "In management of new fields, we are adamant that we will not share with federal authorities," says Ashti Hawrami, an English-trained petroleum engineer who is the new minister of natural resources. "Planning, coordination-no problem. But who has the right to write contracts? We can consult with the center, but the ultimate authority lies with the [Kurds]."

High-level jabs have already been exchanged over the issue. The Iraqi oil minister, Hussain al-Shahristani, has insisted publicly that contracts signed by the Kurdish regional government must be subject to the ministry's review. In response, Kurdish Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani issued a statement that many interpreted as a threat of secession: "The people of Kurdistan chose to be in a voluntary union with Iraq on the basis of the Constitution. If Baghdad ministers refuse to abide by that Constitution, the people of Kurdistan reserve the right to reconsider our choice."

Iraq has the third-largest proven oil reserves in the world, with an estimated 115 billion barrels, and oil companies have salivated over the country's potential since Saddam Hussein's regime fell in 2003. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 90 percent of Iraq's regions are unexplored, with only about 2,000 wells drilled, compared with about 1 million in Texas alone. But the industry has been in terrible shape for the past 20-some years. International sanctions against Saddam's regime meant that the infrastructure was not upgraded. Oil experts think that if international expertise were brought in and facilities modernized, Iraq could produce up to 4 million barrels per day (which is what it produced in 1990, before the invasion of Kuwait). "Iraq's entry into the market will change the entire global oil game," says Ed Chow, a longtime oil consultant who used to work for Chevron.

And that is what is so tempting for the oil companies. In the London townhouse, after the presentations, the questions come quickly from the audience, as much flattery as inquiry. "Congratulations," one oil company rep tells Hawrami. "When can we come negotiate with you?" His answer: "It's first come, first served. We welcome entrepreneurs, but we want structured companies with experience, who offer something we don't have ourselves."

Reserves. Oil companies say that though there are no producing oil fields in the Kurdish territory, initial exploration has shown geological structures similar to large oil fields in other parts of Iraq. The Kurdish government claims 25 billion barrels of proven reserves in the north, plus 20 billion barrels of potential reserves. A Norwegian company, DNO, began drilling last November and discovered its first well this spring. While there is much more oil in the south, the violence there prevents those reserves from being exploited now.

The Kurds themselves marvel at the change in international reaction to their advances. "Five to six months ago, no one would shake hands with a Kurd," says Hawrami. But in May, the Kurdish government created the Ministry of Natural Resources and appointed the minister. In July, Kurdish legislators passed an investment law, which spells out foreign investors' rights. And last month the Kurds published the final version of their own petroleum law. The regional government intends to move it through the Kurdish parliament this month-despite being asked by the United States to hold off for the sake of national reconciliation. The Kurds have signed four contracts with foreign oil companies, and the government's website says it "expects a large-scale licensing round following the passage of the act."

Downstairs, over bites of salmon and pasta, the oil executives feel one another out warily. One congratulates another on a just signed production-sharing agreement. Another group discusses options for doing seismic testing in Kurdistan (there are only two operators there now, both Chinese). Representatives from two major oil companies chat with a British government official. One was preparing to go to Kurdistan but decided to stay in order to meet with Hawrami. "What stage is the central government at with its petroleum law, anyway?" one asks. "I'm not sure," answers the other. "I guess if there's a conflict, that would make things complicated."

That's the consensus view. The U.S. government has expressed concern about companies investing in Kurdistan before the rest of Iraq is ready. "If the Kurds pass their own law, it definitely complicates things-the opportunity for cooperation probably diminishes," says one senior U.S. official. "But it's a great negotiation tactic-you offer something up that's your ideal and then go from there."

To the Kurds, however, their law is most definitely not just a starting point. In fact, though they are involved in the negotiations over the central hydrocarbons law, Kurdish officials say it will not mean much to the region. "Not for investing in Kurdistan, it doesn't," says Hawrami. "But it does matter for the Kurdish people, because we need our fair share of revenue from the rest of the regions!"

So the companies are going with what is available now. Hawrami comes into the room after having had private discussions with one company and is instantly mobbed. Tibor Szatmari, the CEO of a Hungarian oil company that is the largest in Central Europe, waits to talk with him. When he gets an opening, he thrusts his company's annual report into the minister's hands. He admits that he's desperate to get one of these contracts. "If you wait until the situation is absolutely clear, you'll never go," Szatmari explains. "So you take a calculated risk."

Especially if you don't expect to be entering Baghdad anytime soon. "There's a paralysis in the central government," says one former senior U.S. official who quit to start a company that is now investing in Kurdistan. "It's the cultural baggage of the old regime-no one can make a decision without consulting the top guy."

So what's next? A mess, perhaps, as the Kurds press ahead despite Baghdad's explicit protests. Hawrami finishes his presentation on an upbeat note-and just the hint of a threat. "We will soon be awarding new contracts, perhaps on the strength of the new law," he says. "If you come to Kurdistan, we guarantee that you can go to Basra and work as well. After all, who's going to block you?"

-- November 6, 2006 11:23 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Finance & Banking

Foreign banks in Iraq soon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06 November 2006 (Bahrain Tribune)
The central bank of Iraq is considering licensing several foreign banks to operate within the country, mostly in the region of Kurdistan, Sinan Al Shabibi, the bank's governor, said yesterday.

"There have been some applications to operate in northern region of Kurdistan, but their eyes are on Baghdad eventually," Al Shabibi told Zawya Dow Jones in an interview.

Al Shabibi said that the bank is considering several Turkish and Lebanese banks, but declined to disclose the names of the banks.
The Iraqi government licensed six foreign banks in 2004, including the National Bank of Kuwait, Arab Banking Corp., HSBC and Standard Chartered.
However, only Arab Banking Corp. operates a fully-fledged branch in the country as the rest chose to enter Iraq via a local partner.

"Because of the security situation, most join forces with local banks. There are a lot of banks that have expressed their interest Iraq, but they are waiting for the right time," said Al Shabibi.
The country also has six state-owned banks, the biggest of which are Rafidain and al Rasheed.

Al Shabibi hopes that Iraq's banking sector will be strengthened as it opens up to foreign banks, as they bring capital, modern banking systems, technology and management.

The government is also pushing for 25 private banks to merge.
"Our idea is to have some kind of minimum capital for banks, at least 20 billion Iraqi dinars. Some of the very small banks which do not have the capacity will have to merge, otherwise they will have to raise the capital alone," he said.

The central bank wants private banks to participate more in the country's economic activities, and for the country to be less dependent on the Trade Bank of Iraq, which is financed by a consortium of foreign lenders such as Citigroup and JP Morgan. It provides financing services Iraqi banks are unable to offer.

"We would like the government's import activities to be more diversified. We want all banks to participate. This is our policy for the future. The Trade Bank is doing fine, but we don't want to have to be completely dependent on that," he said.

Al Shabibi said the central bank is currently succeeding in its fight against inflation.
"We are using the interest rate and we sell our own bills to skim liquidity. The inflation rate now is 51 per cent, down from 70 per cent previously. Whether it will continue to go down, we will have to see," he said.

-- November 6, 2006 11:27 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

The benefits of Iraq joining the IMF and the World Bank
November 03, 2006
Economists, concerned Iraqis and foreigners disagree on the subject above while some of them believe that Iraqi government has rushed to resort to the IMF and the World Bank to reschedule its debts on the terms of implementing the policy of economic reform.

However, only (11.6) billion dollars of the foreign debts have been quenched as a first stage, and this only makes (7.8%) of the foreign debt. It is a small percentage in return for submitting to the conditions of the economic reform policy, which include:

1- raising support for the prices of fuels and other services.

2- Canceling the ration card.

3- Privatization of the public sector and transfer most of its business to the private sector.

However, the application of these procedures in light of the current circumstances of the country and this speed has serious negative repercussions on the Iraqi society who is suffering already. It is unreasonable to convert a centrally planned economy based on the absolute leadership of the public sector for four decades into a liberal economy based on free market economy, overnight. After the events of 9\4\2003, Iraq suffered from political and economic shocks that are intolerable for a developing country like Iraq.

According to the latest statistics of the Ministry of Planning and Development Cooperation in Iraq, (60%) of the citizens are below the poverty line. So, if the ration card is abolished and subsidies on fuel prices and services are removed, how many will their percentage be? Moreover, the unemployment rate was between (40% - 50%), when taking these measures, the increase would amount to more than that; this means that poverty line will increase and thus increasing rates of crime and corruption since Iraq is considered one of the young population nations whose population pyramid has a broad base and unemployment are concentrated in the younger ages, that (3) out of (4) Iraqis under the age of 25 are unemployed. The concentration of unemployment in this group of age had very dangerous political and social consequences since unemployment is considered a fertile environment for the growth of crime, extremism and violence which emerged strongly to the surface in Iraq, particularly after the events of 9\4\2003 and left serious negative effects on Iraq. There are many examples for such dangerous consequences, like: (the revolution of bread in each of Egypt and Tunisia, and the revolution against raising fuel prices in Yemen, etc.).

Despite all this, we believe that Iraq can achieve benefits when joining the IMF and the World Bank. There will be a genuine development, as the case now in some Gulf countries, Emirates for example, through encouraging investments in vital and important sectors, such as the agricultural, through many inducements like the granting of loans and tax exemption etc... The remaining investments are left free to supply and demand. Since Iraq has natural resources of cheap prices, surely the costs of production will be much less than other countries; therefore, it is possible to manufacture materials then export them. Thus, why do we, now, import cement of bad types when we already have the fine raw materials for manufacturing this material? ö Another benefit of the accession, is that we will get cheap raw materials to help our industry, and we will also import expertise and technology to create developed industry and agriculture.

But what is happening in Iraq now is that some places are built and others are demolished. Therefore, Iraq is at an important crossroads that requires from everyone, especially economic policy-makers in the country, to review the ideological basis and economic theories which they use to form the policies and the applications should be compatible with the concepts of modernization and reform promoted for, and this is one of the biggest economical challenges that we face today.

Thus, the deteriorating reality between the suffering of the society and with the requirements of the economical policy of the State, raise a question: what do we do to walk out of this crisis without a flaw negatively affecting the economic process of the citizen and the state as well?(Source)AlSabah

-- November 6, 2006 11:38 PM ∞

---

Mary Lou wrote:

Iraq: Government committed to adopting free market policy
Posted on Sunday, November 05 @ 08:50:19 PST
Topic: Iraq
The economic achievement in Iraq is often ignored, overshadowed by the violence in the country, Iraqi and American officials said. “The economic team has made significant progress,”said US deputy secretary of treasury Robert Kimmit who was in Kuwait for the International Compact for Iraq meeting. “They have stable currency, they have sizable foreign currency reserves, there are almost back up to pre-war level oil production, and they are able to finance a considerable part of their own government operations,” he told reporters at a conference late Tuesday.

There remains a gap on Iraqis resources however with what the country needs, which is why the government is calling for international support in its Iraq compact. The Iraqi government outlined its economic strategy to put forward, that is hoped to primarily diversify the country’s economy and decrease its reliance on oil. “Agricultural horizons are very promising but we are encountering impediments which need huge investments to overcome. We have been facing the problem of water supplies with our neighbours,” said its Minister of Planning and Development Cooperation Ali Baban.
Iraq however stressed that it will not go back to subsidies policy and will continue to keep its economic sectors “open”. But Iraq also will not expedite privatizations of its industries despite the government’s leaning towards an open economy. “We should not rush as some negative results may accompany any unplanned privatization process,” he said. The government is studying plans to privatize state factories, but most of the factories depend on costly government assistance, and recent move of “keeping the import door open” and without regulations and restrictions has put an end to many factories, he said.

While the Iraqi government remained committed to adopting free market policy, Baban said the removal of subsidies and facilities have hurt the agricultural and industrial sectors. To strengthen the industries, the government is asking the private sector firms to merge. “Many of the private factories are still small and cannot do the required task .. . we are trying hard to urge the Iraqi businessmen to merge their companies and establish big ones,” he said.

The government also believes that merging Iraqi small banks into big banks is necessary. It currently has 25 private banks. “Our idea is to have some kind of minimum capital for banks, to at least 20 billion Iraqi dinar. Some of the very small banks that do not have the capacity will have to merge, or otherwise they would have to raise the capital alone,” he said. The country also has six state-owned banks, the biggest of which are Rafidain and al Rasheed Banks.

Iraqi central bank is also trying to get private banks to participate more in the country’s economic activities, and for Iraq to be less dependent on the Trade Bank of Iraq, which is financed by a consortium of foreign lenders such as Citigroup and JP Morgan to provide trade finance services Iraqi banks are unable to offer. “We would like government’s import activities to be more diversified. We want all banks to participate, this is our policy in the future. Trade Bank is doing fine, but we don’t to have to be completely dependent on that,” he said. Al Shabibi said the central bank is currently succeeding in its fight against inflation.

“We are using interest rate and we sell our own bills to skim liquidity. The inflation rate now is at 51 per cent, down from 70 per cent previously. Whether it will continue to go down, we will have to see,” said al Shabibi. The Iraqi government has given out six licenses to foreign banks in 2004, including to National Bank of Kuwait, Arab Banking Corp, HSBC and Standard Chartered. Only Arab Banking Corp operates a full-fledged branch in the country; the others opted to enter Iraq via a local partner.

Source: Arab times

-- November 6, 2006 11:43 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

GOOD NEWS RE: HCL

Read in Iraqi Financial news, the Dep Prime Minister B.Salih, says that the political committee, hammering out the HCL have only ONE main issue left to address, and he believes strongly that the law can be presented and passed THIS YEAR.

The Dep Prime Minister also added, that he believes that the Iraqis oil out put could in a conservative estimation be doubled by the year 2010.

This my friends, means that the end is getting closer and closer.

The counter balance is the stability and security of the country. This is the weight that can tip the scales in a non favourable direction.

I can foresee a possible scenario.

All parties have realized that there will be insurgency, and unstable conditions in certain areas of Iraq, they will just live with it, and in the meanwhile set out to explore the oil reserves, drill develop and sell it. This while they just decides to live with the current situation, it's been there for quite some time, and they might just getting used to it.

Then with the oil revenue, the civil situation can be handled, creating jobs, and future plans with an economy that allows for projects involving big number of people.

Either way, as the investors are coming in, additional work will be needed, easing up the current situation, and as the oil is located in areas that is not directly in the insurgency area, security would be possible.

I think this will work out in one way or the other.

Sarah,
Yes a poll is a very limited analysis of a field, the big poll will be when the actual election takes place. Upsets have happened in the past, when the poll believers already had the election set and sealed before it happened.

Harry Trumans victory was so surprising, one news paper had already printed his defeat. One of the most famous pictures with Truman is when he was standing in Victory lane with a newspaper in his hand describing his defeat, the day after the election process.

About the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Sarah, we have had deep and thorough debate in the past and you know that God as authority is more a matter of him as 1st or 3rd party, As for respect, for God, if I can't create my own God, in the image I think God is, then I have not created God. As for respect for my or any ones creation, I think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster serves well, if he can't be respected, sorry, then there is no God.

If I create an image of a car, a ghost or Flying Spaghetti Monster or a God, it's irrelevant. I created it.

If I have the two basic abilities, an ability to observe, and an ability to want(intention) , then I have the same ability as any God, or Spaghetti Monster, how BIG of ability, is only a matter of gradient, no more.

I know you're heavy into seeing him as a 3rd party and you being on the effect point (being created as opposed to create), as the established Christianity Judaism and Islam claims. You may be right, I may be right because it's all in the end a matter of viewpoint.

We're saying the same thing, you see a bottle, I see the label you don't, because you are looking at it from your viewpoint.

The analogy with the blind men feeling their way around an elephant was a great story.

Carole,

What stone did you creep up from, (yuck),
Well, it's the end of the month and you will soon get your lithium adjustment.
I have a feeling that Roger lurks around on this blog under other handles, ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BLOG HAVING A THOUGHT ON THIS?
Take a chill pill or you'll have a stroke, I never started this fuzz.
It's obvious that some of this discussions are well over your head......
Roger and Carl is Wicca......

May I ask you a couple of things.

When CBI decides to reevaluate or put the currency on the Forex, is this plausible at all, or will it stay in limbo until another looped currency is in place, what do you think the basis for that would be?

Will the IMF be a force to look at, with respect to the current debt plan imposed by the WB. Will there be a stand taken by the Iraqis or will they follow a fixed financial plan set in place by a foreign force, despite this might not be in the immediate good interest for the Iraqis?

Knowing CBI's President Mr Shibib, and his previous record, do you consider the Iraqi finances are having a chock treatment, or is it a non active passive handling of the economy?

If there is a quantitative pretty big supply of currency in Iraq and they have an inflation that have gone from 70 to 50 %, can you please give an in debt analysis of that particular situation.

The latest loan market set up by the finance ministry, in collaboration with the CBI, what does it do for the normal Iraqi person, and what difference is it from before?

If Iraq sell oil, and get an oil note in Dollar, where does it end up, and how is it converted from an oil note into Dinars for the country's immediate expenses, and where does the difference end up?

You see Carole, you don't have a clue.

In one way or the other we are all contributing , an article, a piece of news, maybe a rumor, some people on the ground giving news, is great, an in depth analysis can be gold worth.

You are just sitting at the table freeloading, contributing nothing, eating what we serve, snapping your fingers demanding us to behave, slinging out snidy comments to members of this board.

You're just a freeloading piece of s..t. Only when you have contributed something of value you will get the respect you so desperately ask for.

Tim Bitts,

Ok got it, well I must say, even if the actual oil available with today's technology is not in the trillion number, it is a respectable number indeed.

Well, a correction, the technology to take out the oil, is available, but it is so darn expensive that right now the shale is not processed.

This will be a very interesting proposition, probably the oil will not go down that much, with the increasing demand from China and India, so most probably the demand for volume will continue. With that, the Alberta oil will be a very important source of oil in North America.

Ok, just wanted to clear what oil and what numbers we are talking about, thanks Tim.

-- November 7, 2006 12:29 AM ∞

---

Hot wrote:

I reported to you the sentencing of saddam hours before any media because here in China the people are following Iraq very closely. On that note, many of you on this blog have nothing better to do than to waste my time trying to scroll through all of the irrelevant garbage. If you want to talk about something besides Dinar or pigroasts then find another site or perhaps call a mental institution

-- November 7, 2006 12:46 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Wow Mary Lou,

Well done, lots and lots of good reading.

-- November 7, 2006 1:03 AM ∞

---

Edward wrote:

AGNOSTIC,

I completely understand your questions, I've been there myself. If you would like some insight to the understanding that will answer all your questions, write to me at evmolinar@sbcglobal.net. This forum is not the place to discuss it. If your interested let me know.

Edward

-- November 7, 2006 1:51 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,
I never pretended to be the Maharincess of the Dinar issue. I came to this site to learn and you know that. If I had the time I could study and answer all of your questions.

I guess I didn't realize that one had to be an expert of the Iraqi socio-econmic and political issues.

This all started ( excluding you all but calling me a Nazi) when I answered a question presented to me by Sara regarding " If God or the Bible approves of war"

You interceded and warned me about people on this blog .

I told you then that I wasn't scared. You said "OKAY you will see".

Then Carl sent Sara a message and referred to me as her "CHRISTIAN SOLDIER".

Along with a barrage of other tactical insults pointed at me and Sara.

You ask for comments, rumors or anything to cotribute to this board. But I, as others, have watched you undermine others attempts to do that. SO why, would little ole' me try to even begin to offer my little bitsy knowledge, much less opinion of anything, knowing it would never pass your scrutiny.

Once you invited me to post anything I wanted and that you did not mean to make me feel bad. SO, I did and you came back with a vengence. That is when I said " first time shame on you, second time shame on me".

Remember?

Well, you have made it very clear several times to several people that you are the last word on all knowledge on almost every subject---even God.

So why should anyone even bother to have their own thoughts or offer their piddlings of knowledge.

Oh you have given kuddos to those who have posted articles from all kinds of sources ( which I have thoroughly enjoyed and learned alot). But when someone asks questions or gives their own ideas you shoot them down,either by telling them to read more and come back later, or give some rhetorical ( and yes convoluted) response.

If you are the professor, why don't you get your own website and we can come to your school for Dinar illerates, so that you can enlighten us.

I guess I shouldn't take such offense for your mockery, insults, and disrespect ( not to mention blasphemy) towards Sara.

I have no idea why she tolerates you.

So type away buddy and give us all your ongoing discertations of your knowledge and views of almost any issue on earth.

And I will just sit here and freeload and say my prayers everynight that I can be as smart as you someday.

You know what is so ironic is that the warning you so thoughtfully gave me, should have been a warning against you and your vile mind and mouth, not to mention your twisted mind.

Sara,

Please dear sister, no comment! I've run out of my nausea pills.

-- November 7, 2006 2:33 AM ∞

---

Rodney King wrote:

Can't we all just get along?

Do some halucenogenic drugs

Maybe beat on some police officers with big sticks

-- November 7, 2006 7:46 AM ∞

---

Don King wrote:

I want Roger and Carole to come out swinging at the sound of the bell

and this time

I want a fair fight.

Anybody have a comb in their pocket?

Just got up and can't do a thing with my hair

-- November 7, 2006 7:51 AM ∞

---

OJ Simpson wrote:

Thots from the juice

Remember folks if your candidate doesn't win today then hire a lawyer amd have the candidate drive around in a white Bronco with a sign that says

"A win I didn't earn so you must overturn"

-- November 7, 2006 8:46 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

All:

Not that it really matters, but for the record:

Oct 29--Carl's post
"......but as a good Wiccan & Diest, I pray you find the Real God....."

Nov.6--Carl's post "....first you label me a Wiccan...I never told you I was a Wiccan....."

?????????????????????????????

-- November 7, 2006 9:27 AM ∞

---

Jim Bean wrote:

Carole, wish you could teach the Iraqi Government how to peg the Dinar, as well as you have pegged Roger & Carl.

You have guts to say what some of us think and feel, dont let them chase you away as they have others. You have got a sharp mind.

-- November 7, 2006 10:13 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Every time we get into a brawl on this forum it brings this to mind.....

Just remember:

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways – Jim Beam in one hand - cigar in the other- body thoroughly used up- totally worn out and screaming, "WOW” !!, What a Ride" !!

-- November 7, 2006 10:27 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

I think it's safe to say that several of us on the forum believe we're getting close to an RV. If you're one of them, the following might be of interest to you.

====================================================================================
Direct from IRS ruling...Code Secs. 1031, 1221

>

26 CFR 1.1031(a)-1: Property held for productive use in trade or business
or for investments.
(Also Section 1221; 1.1221-1.)

Foreign currency reconverted into U.S. dollars. The reconversion of a
foreign country's currency into U.S. dollars after a visit to that country
by a U.S. citizen, not a dealer in foreign currency or engaged in a trade
or business in that country, is not a like kind exchange under section
1031(a) of the Code. The foreign currency is a capital asset and any gain
or loss realized on the reconversion is a capital gain or loss. I.T. 3810
superseded.

REV. RUL. 74-7 >

The purpose of this Revenue Ruling is to update and restate, under the
current statute and regulations, the position set forth in I.T. 3810,
1946-2 C.B. 55.

The question presented is whether, after the conversion of United
States dollars into foreign currency by a United States citizen traveling
in the foreign country, the reconversion of the foreign currency into
dollars may be treated as an exchange of property held for productive use
in trade or business or for investment for property of a like kind to be
held for productive use in trade or business or for investment, under
section 1031 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954. If not, the further
question presented is whether the gain or loss realized on such a
transaction by a taxpayer, who is not a dealer in foreign currency,
constitutes capital gain or loss under section 1221 of the Code.

The taxpayer, a United States citizen, while traveling in a foreign
country deposited United States dollars in a bank in that country. At his
request, the bank converted these dollars to that country's currency for
the taxpayer's personal use. The taxpayer was not a dealer in foreign
currency and was not engaged in trade or business in the foreign country.
During his travels there were no transactions in the foreign bank account.
At the conclusion of his stay, the taxpayer requested the bank to
reconvert the foreign currency to dollars and close his account. The value
of the foreign currency, measured in terms of dollars, differed at the
time the account was closed from the value when the account was opened.

Section 1031(a) of the Code provides, in part, that no gain or loss
shall be recognized if property held for productive use in trade or
business or for investment is exchanged solely for property of a like kind
to be held either for productive use in trade or business or for
investment.

In the instant case, the foreign currency does not constitute property
held for productive use in trade or business or for investment, and
therefore the reconversion is not a like kind exchange under section
1031(a) of the Code.

Section 1221 of the Code provides, in part, that the term "capital
asset" means property held by the taxpayer, but does not include certain
specified property. Section 1.1221-1(a) of the Income Tax Regulations
provides, in part, that the term "capital assets" includes all classes of
property not specifically excluded by section 1221.

In the instant case, the foreign currency is not excluded from the
definition of capital assets contained in section 1221 of the Code.

Accordingly, the foreign currency is a capital asset and any gain or
loss realized on the reconversion by the taxpayer is a capital gain or
capital loss.
I.T. 3810 is hereby superseded, since the position stated therein is
restated under the current law in this Revenue Ruling.

>

1/ Prepared pursuant to Rev. Proc. 67-6, 1967-1 C.B. 576.

>

-- November 7, 2006 11:23 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Stop whining about how right you are, can you please post something with substance. Find some news on the Dinar, find an article, get some inside info, do an analysis of the Dinar,or something.

Time to haul something to the table. You sure take a lot of space claiming you know nothing, all this time and you have not even immersed yourself in the subject.

Okie,

Very good article, have an idea though that if the Dinar will be a windfall, a very good idea would be to go to a pro in the investment field. Tax and investment pro will be very good friends at that time.

Jim Bean,

I'm not chasing anyone away, as for Carole having a sharp mind, yes I can acknowledge that, however, it's a matter of how you use the mind.

-- November 7, 2006 12:00 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Marylou, though many of the articles were already posted (thanks to those who contributed them before, I did notice and appreciated your efforts too!), but it surely was a good review. :)

===

Okie;

Good posts.. and yes, we are closer. :)

===

Roger;

Thanks for the post which addressed the polls, good insight and how funny! You wrote:

Harry Trumans victory was so surprising, one news paper had already printed his defeat. One of the most famous pictures with Truman is when he was standing in Victory lane with a newspaper in his hand describing his defeat, the day after the election process.

I really appreciated that.. :)

===

Hot - if you don't like a post, just skip it... try to be tolerant like Americans are in general of religion. It can't hurt too much for you to try.. nice the Chinese Communist police let you access this site. I have read a lot about them clamping down on any access to the net from there.

===

Carole - I won't comment.. but I would have if you hadn't said not to. :)

Hang in there, I appreciate your faith in the Lord.

Maybe we can talk Dinar and things we agree on?

===

AGNOSTIC wrote: "Religion has been used throughout time to control the general population. If a King or Pharaoh wanted to stay in control then they wrote what they wanted into the Religion of the time."

I agree religion is used to man's own evil ends, often. But that does not affect or change the REALITY of God. Men/women seeking political control through this means only show they are corrupt, it does not alter the truth about God or who He really is. BLIND faith in these power hungry people is not wise, as you said. Obviously, they are hijacking the real religious truth (God) for their own ends (power, money). You cannot attack the reality of GOD, however, because men seek to make a buck (or hold political power) by this means.

1. If there is one GOD how did we end up with all of these different sects and denominations?

MEN, not God.

2. Why are there so many different views in the same Denomination? I.E. Missionary Baptist, Southern Baptist, Catholic, Methodist?

MEN, not God.

3. How do you explain drawings of flying machines in the pyramids or ancient caves?

There are beings which exist who are greater in power than men - perhaps in the extra dimensional levels mentioned in String Theory. The Bible refers to them as angels.. and demons. Is it beyond comprehension that these beings could have great understanding of physical phenomena? If they were able to communicate some of their understanding to those who contacted them (forbidden by God to contact these beings using occultic sciences due to mankind's inability to perceive good from evil spirits and their incredible gullibility in believing almost anything they are told, even if it comes from malicious sources - ie demons - see 'Independence Day' and those who waved signs on the top of buildings welcoming the "aliens", kinda like that) this could explain those drawings. As a second possibility, some say it is only a depiction of their own minds about "carriages" which were to take the souls of the dead away, and it is just coincidental that they look like flying machines. Similarly, if people from the past came to our time and saw a movie like Star Wars or Star Trek, they might ask why we had these "moving pictures" of flying machines traversing interstellar space. It doesn't mean we can DO that, just because we imagine a hyperdrive and the ability to leap ships through space. Mankind does have vivid imaginations, and it would not suprise me to learn that our generation of modern man is not the first to imagine such things or draw them.

4. Why do Catholics not let women preach or marry outside of the faith, or let them practice birth control?

I cannot speak directly to the Catholic faith, because I hold to the Bible as Supreme, and do not submit to the authority of Papal edicts. But the Catholics very often follow the Bible and its tenants, so we only tend only to differ where they take the word of that man (the pope) over the Bible. These teachings which you refer to here are within the Catholic church and within other Christian denominations as well. The reason that women are not allowed to preach by them is that in the Bible, the Scriptures say that pastors or bishops must be "the husband of one wife" (1 Tim 3:2) and it is argued by Christian groups that this disqualifies a woman from holding the office of pastor/bishop as males are obviously in view, not females. Marrying outside the faith is forbidden in the Bible - 2Co 6:14 "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers..." and 1Co 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband is living; but if her husband is dead, she is at liberty to be married to whomever she wishes; only in the Lord. The picture of an oxen team where the yoke is unequal means that marrying a non-believer would be disastrous in moving forward together with the same direction (as oxen to plough a field). Also, can you imagine how a Christian with strong convictions like Carole and a non-believer like Roger would be at each other's throats in time if they were married together? The command just makes sense to keep harmony and peace in the home.

Birth control is not spoken of in the Bible directly, but you certainly cannot argue that God commands it when He said (and never took back the command) to be "fruitful and multiply". Many Christian groups just think they are doing what God commanded. The Bible says for each person to be certain in the Lord what God is telling them and walk in it. In the first two (women preaching, marrying outside the faith) I can see a church setting it as doctrinal rules they adhere to as a group from a conviction which comes from Scriptural authority. But since convictions about the birth control issue differs and there is no "thou shalt use/not use birth control" Scripture, that one is not quite in the realm of doctrinal certainty. But I see nothing wrong with those who welcome children as a blessing from God. As Tim Bitts pointed out, that would have helped Europe not to lose the battle against Islamic militantism through their declining birth rates.

5. Why the different KINGS version of the Bible?

You refer to a translation of the Bible. All that counts is whether the underlying Greek and Hebrew manuscripts are those accepted by the Church and held by them through the ages. (Is it the real thing or something someone turned out for a profit.. a version motivated by those who do not care what the first church taught? - Such as the recent Bibles which change the gender of God in the Bible to female in every case... when there is incontrovertible evidence that the words in the original refer to God as male and as the Father. But it will undoubtedly have female adherents who think it is a great version and those who put it out will make money.. if that is a consideration to some.)

6. Do you believe in Incest? If not how do you explain Adam and Eve and the population of the earth?

If everyone on earth really did come from one pair of people, then all the human races came from them (Chinese, Caucasian, Mongolian, Arab, etc) This means Adam and Eve had in them all those genes in their genome. "Incest" is not very harmful if there is enough genetic diversity within the genome. Over time the genome of each preceding generation would have less genetic diversity, so the effects of interbreeding would be apparent as more time went by. Incest brings out genes which before were recessive. Today the genetic diversity inside a single family is not large enough and brings out negative defects (mental retardation, genetic diseases). However if all the human race decended from a single pair of people those people would have the genome of the entire human race. Their decendants could intermarry and their genome would be able to absorb a large amount of inbreeding before the recessive genes being expressed became harmful. Moses was given the command from God which forbade incest, so we reason that by that time the genetic diversity within a family had decreased to such an extent that the negative effects of incest were becoming harmful enough to be forbidden for the good of mankind, and it has been disallowed since that time. However there was a time when incest was not as harmful as it is now because of greater genetic diversity with each family, and it is logical that that time was before Noah's flood.

God made certain rules after the flood due to the change of climatic conditions on the earth. Before the flood the earth was tropical - you can go to the poles and dig down deep enough and find the remains of tropical plants. The entire earth was full of huge tropical plants and animals, many of which now make up the oil and gas we find in the earth.. under Iraq there is a lot of this (and it is worth money, hence our investment in the Dinar). Things during the tropical time grew to huge proportions - fossil remains of dragonflies with 2 foot wingspans, etc. Quote:

As fossils, we find giant dragonflies with wingspans over 2 feet (60 cm); giant fusilinids among the one-celled creatures (1/2 inch (12 mm) is giant for them); the giant reptiles, including some of the dinosaurs; even a giant beaver that reached six feet (2 m) in body length.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/cfol/ch3-neo-catastrophism.asp

AFTER the flood, the world changed. Genetics also changed. Mankind was told to eat meat in order to get his protein needs met. Animals grew much smaller and died sooner. DNA changes limited mankind's lifespans down to an average of about 80 years now and made inbreeding dangerous to offspring's viability. We know from medical science what inbreeding does (it creates defects and mental retardation) - and that is why, for the good of mankind, God had to forbid creation of offspring by close relatives (brothers and sisters - called incest). During the time of Adam and Eve and in the time before the flood, the genetic code did not have this problem, as evidenced by the fact that people lived for literally hundreds of years.

Gen 5:13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:25-26 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech. And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

Note Cainan had to be full grown as a man before he "begat" (fathered) a child.. then lived beyond that 840 years. Methuselah lived 187 years before he begat Lamech, then lived 782 more years.. making him 969 years old when he died. Obviously the conditions they lived under allowed longer lifespans than we currently have and those conditions also allowed inbreeding without harm to the DNA code - close relative pairing without harm to the DNA code.

7. Why is there no mention of Dinosaurs or Prehistoric creatures in the Bible?

There is. Explain what HUGE strong, grass-eating creature alive now has a tail like a tree trunk? An elephant? Rhino?

Job 40:15-19,21 Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox.
See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles.
He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
His bones are like beams of bronze, His ribs like bars of iron.
He is the first of the ways of God; Only He who made him can bring near His sword.
He lies under the lotus trees, In a covert of reeds and marsh.

What exactly is this creature? It lives in the marshland, is strong like bars of iron, has a tail like a cedar tree (that is not small) and is so fierce that no one can bring near to it a sword.. what answers this description except dinosaurs? Draw me a picture of one.. anything alive meet this description?

For more reading on this (and over 30 more references to dinosaurs from the Bible) http://answersingenesis.org/home/Area/AnswersBook/dinosaurs19.asp

Like this page, I think behemoth is very like Brachiosaurus, one of the large dinosaurs.

8. Why did Islam become so violent? Do you see Extremist Catholics, or Baptist? Any Methodist Jihad lately?

Islam was founded on the words of a man who himself took the sword at times and slaughtered his enemies (religious holy war or jihad). Jesus never took up a sword or killed anyone in His lifetime and only advocated taking a sword in order to defend life. Different authorities (Mohammed/Jesus), different views on violence (jihad/no jihad).

Lastly, you said: "I do believe there is a supreme being(s)." That is good. :)

Sara.

-- November 7, 2006 2:14 PM ∞

---

MARK wrote:

Everyone: This goes to show you, You never talk Religion and or Politics at the "DINAR TABLE". I understand that some will argue, News on the Dinar can be slow at times and we have nothing else to talk about or that religion and politics have a direct role in the RV of the Dinar.

KEVIN, Can you create a forum titled "RELIGION and POLITICS"????

OKIE, Great find with IRS and Capital Gains. THANX.

ANYONE take note as to the amount sold at auction today.

The 800 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Tuesday 2006 / 11/ 7 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 14 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1468 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1466 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 109.150.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 3.000.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 109.150.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 3.000.000 -----

Cash amounts sold to the bank and its customers were USD(41.650.000) at a rate of(1468+1+10=1479)IQD\USD .
The amount sold to make transfers abroad was USD (67.500.000) at a rate of (1468-2)+ one dinar as a bank fee and exempt the transferred amount from conversion fee.

October is missing from the records, but I know the last week saw record numbers of DINAR sold at auction. The first 3 days were all over 80 million and the last 2 days were over 70 million. This 109 million may just be a result of being closed for the last 3 or 4 days. Not sure what this means, but it appears to be a positive sign.

-- November 7, 2006 3:36 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara....All sorts of interesting tidbits in your last posting...good reading! :)

Mark....Hope the CBI positive trend continues!

-- November 7, 2006 6:45 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

MARK;

Perhaps the problem is your complaining and lack of tolerance, not that of the board. Most seem to be tolerant, and just skip what they don't wish to read. Why don't you try going away, as that would add to the peacefulness of everyone.

-- November 7, 2006 9:21 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

I just saw top Democrat Howard Dean on CNN, being interviewed. He has always been associated with the far left, nut job wing of the Democratic Party. I've heard him before, and he seemed a bit unhinged at times. That was then. Tonight, he was being interviewed about the war in Iraq. I was pleasantly surprised, that he sounded quite rational, for a change. He said few, if any Democrats, want to pull out of Iraq immediately. He said it is definitely wrong to cut and run. He just wants the war to be run differently, whatever that means.

This tells me a few things. The Democrats have been playing politics with the war, all this time. Anyone paying attention knew this. The Democrats were giving the impression they would pull out of Iraq, if it was up to them.

They wouldn't, even if they had the final say in this, which they don't.

Howard Dean acknowledged there is very little they can do to force the President to withdraw the troops. They will get on a few more committees, and be able to pressure for influence on the running of the war, delay funding for the troops, but this is a two-edged sword, for them.

If the Democrats somehow push America to withdraw from Iraq before the Iraqis are ready to take over, the Democrats will be blamed for the ensuing mess.

If there is a massive bloodbath and selective genocide in Iraq, because the Democrats forced America to leave early, deserting Iraqis who were trying to put forth a tolerant, peaceful Muslim democracy in the heart of the middle east, then all hell may break loose in the middle east. Again, this would be bad for the Democats.

Historically, Republicans have had a ten poing lead over the Democrats, in national security questions. If the Democrats somehow force American troops to leave early, and Iraq falls apart, and later American security or prosperity is compomised, then the Democrats could pay for their mistake for generations.

Especially if things go horribly wrong, in the middle east, as a result of a premature American pullout.

If America pulls out too early, and Iraq becomes an unstable breeding ground for terrorists, and some of those terrorists end up attacking America, and the attack is large, the Democrats could be finished as a party.

So Howard Dean was acknowleding tonight that the political landscape may change by tomorow, and part of that change may be that the Democrats may be forced by circumstances to start acting responsibly, rather than acting like the smart mouthed little brother all the time.

This is good news for the dinar. American troops will be in Iraq at least two more years, if needed. That is also what Iraqi's President has been saying lately, anyway.

The Democrats have been saying all along, the President has no plan, to wing the war and get out of Iraq. I have always thought that was nonsense. The plan has always been, America steps down, as the Iraqis step up.

The Democrats had to pretend the President had no plan, in order to be the power in opposition. The problem, as I say, is when their voices start to affect the outcome of the conflict, they must start to act responsibly, or they will pay at the polls in the future, if America's security is comprimised.

Thank goodness Howard Dean is bright enough to see this.

The truth is, the Democrats have no plan for Iraq. They have no magic bullet. They might say, drag the UN, to come to some magical talking solution to the situation in Iraq, but only an imbecile, or Michael Moore, would take seriously the idea that that might lead to peace.

So the Democrats can ride the wave all they want, of people who vote, are sick of the war, can't see the point of it, and want America to pack it's bags and go home. But their anti-war stance may come back to bite them, if Iraq falls apart.

Voters generally don't have the time, or interest to think through the geo-political and economic ramifications of various courses of action.

But they are not stupid. If gas prices go up, because Iraq is embroiled in a ten year civil war, and this puts a crimp on the global energy supply, and it happens because America left too soon, so that the consumer ends up paying too much for gas, the voter will eventually figure this out. If they don't, the Republicans sure will, and will tell the voter, who will then blame the Democrats.

So, in my opinion, whatever happens in the election, there is no black and white. Things will always be more unpredicable and complicated than they first appear. I'd like the Repubicans to do well, but I don't think it matters all that much, in the long run.

In the long run, the world still needs oil desperately. Double that for America. In the long run, Muslim fanatics will still be there, even if there is a Democrat President. America can deal with Muslim radicals, on the battlefield, or encourage their societies to reform, as President Bush is doing. Any future American president will still have to do with those economic and geo-political realities, like oil and Muslim radicalism, all of which affect America's security and interests.

That's why America will have to stay engaged in Iraq, and elsewhere in the Muslim world. There is a lot of opposition to this from the voting public, caccooned as they are in their bubble realities, but the world will continue to force it's way into their living rooms, in this new global village we live in. The American voter will eventually figure that out. President Bush is just a bit ahead of the American public.

As I recall, Canada entered the Second World War several years ahead of the United States. American voters back then did not want to acknowledge the gathering storm clouds in the late 1930s, but were eventually forced by circumstances to do so. So American isolationist tendencies are nothing new.

The same sort of pattern is repeating itself, historically. I think it is events, trends and circumstances world-wide that will encourage responsible Democrat behaviour, and voter behaviour.

The Democrats can argue all they want, that America should not have gone into Iraq. That is very debatable, but at this point, it is a completely irrelavant point. America IS there right now, and should they pull out too soon, and fail to support the fledgling Iraqi government, and if it turns into a worse mess than it is right now, it would be very very bad for American interests. The closer Democrats get to power, the more they are forced to realize that.

These political realities give me confidence in future of Iraq. President Bush was right all along. America's future security depends on success in Iraq. The Democrats will be forced by circumstances, to acknowledge, and live by that reality.

So, whatever form the help takes, it is definitely in America's national interest to help Iraqis succeed, for the long run. The cost of failure would be very very high. This is not Vietnam. America cannot just pack it's bags and go home. Doing so would embolden Muslim radicals, who, unlike the Vietnames, are a growing, and radical, worldwide threat, with plans to get nuclear weapons. Leaving an unstable situation behind in Iraq would not be good for American security.

The outcome of this war has very very serious implications for American power for this century. It's a big big thing. It's not a game America can afford to lose. I think even the brighter Democrats know this.

Iraq will succeed. It has to.

That's one reason I have confidence in the future of the Iraqi dinar, my investment, and yours.

Go Dinar!!!!!!!

I want a house, near Green Sand Beach, in the Big Island of Hawaii.

Good place for a pig roast.

By the way, what do you want?

-- November 7, 2006 10:15 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

MARK,

It's Dollars that is auctioned, not Dinars, anyhow, the auction in itself is no more than a balance act in keeping the Dinar in a set reference frame. As you might have noticed, the Dinar is not actually pegged, a truly pegged currency would not change it's position to it's pegged reference currency.

That is why you will get a small variation in Dinar value as time goes by, the window is set pretty narrow, and you can expect some swings within that window. No panic, doesnt mean anything more other than that they are doing a balance number. Some times they have to auction off more, sometimes less Dollars.

From the Iraqi Dollar income, ALL is given by the finance ministry to CBI for exchange in Dinars, CBI will auction off , SOME of the Dollars, but not all.

Looking at the auction, for clues is not really fruitful, the figures that is the interesting figures, is not there. It just shows the amount of Dollars they have CHOOSEN to auction off, to balance the Dinar value.

The real interesting figures, you can find in Iraqis state financial and economical spread sheet.

Reserve, debt, total income, total expense and so on, is there, not in the auction figures.

Hope this helps.

-- November 7, 2006 10:20 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Tim-Excellent post-I agree with you.

-- November 7, 2006 10:36 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

Well, I don't really believe there will actually be much difference if Democrats win majority. More rhetoric perhaps, but first, the house seats are lawmaking reps, and the president is Executive manager so to say.

We'll see the results by tomorrow.

The Pot Roast is in the Florida Keys, the last I heard, yes, Iraq will persevere, it will stand in time, and even though events and persons on the scene might change, the Iraqi state, it's production, and thus it's economy will eventually emerge. With it, the Dinar, so I'm hopeful too.

The Pot Roast is in the Florida Keys the last I checked, but by all means, if you arrange for the chartered flight (I chip in my part, I presume me and Natasha can afford it) we can do Hawaii as alternative.

-- November 7, 2006 10:47 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hot,

No we could see the sentencing of Saddam Hussein in real time, the same as you, they only delayed the news in Iraq, in order to be able to edit the tape, in case Saddam threw a tantrum.

Can you buy Iraqi Dinars in China?

Are you on the mainland or in Taiwan?

-- November 7, 2006 11:16 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

All:

We do not need anyone to leave this Blog. Haggling makes it more interesting and everyone should be free to express their likes and dislikes without being asked to leave.

We have several real intellects on this site-Carl, Roger, Steve, Lance, Sara, Carole and Mary Lou. When thinking people interact, there is going to be disagrement so take it in stride and keep posting exactly what you are thinking
without regard for how someone may interpret it.

Tim: I believed totally in everything you said until your last post-please put IMO in front on all these profound predictions about what would happen if he USA pulled out.

-- November 7, 2006 11:56 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts wrote:

As I recall, Canada entered the Second World War several years ahead of the United States. American voters back then did not want to acknowledge the gathering storm clouds in the late 1930s, but were eventually forced by circumstances to do so. So American isolationist tendencies are nothing new.

The same sort of pattern is repeating itself, historically. I think it is events, trends and circumstances world-wide that will encourage responsible Democrat behaviour, and voter behaviour.

===end of quote==

Tim, I think you have nailed the problem pretty well.. the lack of responsible behavior and isolationist ideals of the Democrats -

which many voters who are tired of the war tend to agree with - cause them to think of "cut and run"..

and just forget the whole thing.. redo a Vietnam and go home. But this isn't Vietnam.

I think you paint a rosy picture of how these people who, up til now, have been "wingnuts" will behave in the future.

Do you remember the way the WWII isolationism the US had as their mentality (which you so rightly said is the way it is today) ended?

Pearl Harbor.

When you say, "The same sort of pattern is repeating itself, historically"... and similar "events, trends and circumstances..

will encourage responsible Democrat behaviour, and voter behaviour." JUST as it did before.. that means the isolationism would end.. how?

Using your analogy.. In another devastating attack on US soil which takes many, many American lives, as Pearl Harbor.

Encouraging Democrat behavior and voter behavior to work on realities and not in the bubble worlds you spoke of..

could indeed be more costly than we are currently willing to admit.

But perhaps I need a pair of those rose colored glasses and to rewatch Pollyanna to gain talking points for the new political realities...

as many in the American public obviously wished such a refreshing perspective and change of direction from Pollyanna's mindset,

because they are weary of war.

Sara.

-- November 8, 2006 3:37 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Democratic Win Will Lead to More Pressure for Iraq Exit Plan
By Janine Zacharia

Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Triumphant Democrats who won control of the House yesterday by hammering the Bush administration's handling of Iraq may be unable to fulfill a promise to do better because of internal splits and limited influence.

In speeches and campaign advertisements, Democrats persuaded a majority of their voters that they could accelerate a pullout of U.S. forces if they won. Democrats now face the prospect of becoming associated with the Iraq problem if they are unable to satisfy those expectations.

Limited Power

Democratic gains ``will be read correctly as a very strong message to the president that the American people want to change course in Iraq and want to begin a reduction in our presence there by the end of the year,'' Senator Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat, predicted on Nov. 2.

If Bush rebuffs the election results and pressure from his own party, there is little the Democrats can do on their own. ``Congress doesn't have any formal capacity to take direct action,'' said Stephen Walt, a professor at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

While they can lobby the White House for a new direction, holding up their victory as a mandate for change, and conduct investigative hearings, the president is ultimately responsible for foreign policy.

War Money

A Democratic House is unlikely to wield its ultimate legislative weapon -- the power to control appropriations for the military. The incoming House speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California, has pledged not to cut funding for the war effort.

``The idea that their control immediately leads to a unified plan that takes us in a different direction, I think, is overly optimistic,'' Walt said. (POLLYANNA?)

Americans appear to expect Democrats to do just that. A New York Times/CBS News poll published Nov. 2 found 64 percent of the U.S. public disapproving of the way Bush is handling the war. Ninety-two percent of Democrats said they expected American troops will be taken out of Iraq more quickly under a Democratic-led Congress.

Voters were motivated to back Democrats in part ``because they see them as more likely to bring the war to an end,'' said Robert Dallek, who has written nine books on presidential and election history.

Senator Joe Biden, the Delaware Democrat who has advocated a federation of three independently governed Iraqi regions, predicted that after the election, Republicans who had been reluctant to criticize Bush will rally around his plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQd859H_oNV8&refer=worldwide

-- November 8, 2006 4:14 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

All:

I had a long talk tonight with one of my dearest friends who I went to graduate school with.
She did her thesis on post-war (Viet Nam )and the integration, global impact,and survival of Judeao-Christian ethics
as it related to a world power ( US) experiencing defeat in the eyes of the world.

As the years have gone on, her discertation has become more and more relevant to her theme;, I believe climaxing with the advent of terrorists attacks world wide and eventually on US soil and other global interests.

Well, tonight in the aftermath of a devestating political turn of events caused by this election, she had many comments of interest, but the one that I think is relevant to some of our discussion on this blog, is that what we are experiencing here is the demonstration of God's permissive will.

Sara and Chris might best understand this. The theory and idea being that He stands back and gives this nation and this world what it wants, removing us out from under the wings of His protection and grace.

I don't mean to incite any hairy, ugly discussion, on this..I am not a student of apolegetics, but I only express these thoughts out of
a deep concern for the future of our nation by which it's birth, growth and power have evolved from His divine will and grace bestowed on a people
( nation)that not only sought Him but honored Him.

I would invite her to this board to discuss more, but would never want to expose her to the effects her comments might have by some of the abuses I have been given(especially lately) by the narrow and shallow minded contributing "members" of this group. Not that I don't think she could handle it, but why? Not to mention that she thinks that Dinar investing is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever done!!

I just wished that for the amicable relationships that I have made here, I could be able to express some of her very applicable and interesting views, but I must say that my mind is too scientific geared ( my thesis was Bio-neuro medical ethics) and I would really mess her thoughts up and probably mis-state her very relevant thoughts.

How does this all relate to the Dinar? Well, I beleive the Dinar and all the ancillary topics related to it, is and will be the culmination of religious, political, economical events of our time. I believe it will be the "effect", of the cause and effect equation.
And this is why I believe we have not seen the movement in the currency we all hope for. It is not time yet. More regional ( mideast) and global activity must happen first. Either it will happen in a bigger way than any of us can imagine or we, as world-wide dinar investors will be radical islamic's world last and biggest laugh.

To address Roger's indictment of my involvement on this board: I will admit, that I have no time or interest in the day to day dealings and detail of the Dinar and all of it's implications. I read with great appreciation and interest what you all gather and learn and pass on, but I will never be a viable contributor to the subject.
In my lifetime, I have been a spectator and student of many subjects, but never thought of as a freeloader.

Roger's comments insult every University student, pretty much as Kerry's comments insulted all of our service men.

I'm pretty much done with this discussion board, not because Roger or anyone else has chased me away, but my interests lie elsewhere.

I will peak in from time to time, to catch more Dinar detail , but am more interested in the Big Picture, and how it plays out.

Truthfully, I invision the fragments of a suitcase nuclear bomb stuck up Roger's ass as the only pig roast we are ever going to see in our lifetime.

For my family's sake and yours......
Hope I am wrong!! :}

Carole

-- November 8, 2006 5:30 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

No Thesis needed...

The creator has always stated...use the 3 tools I gave you, and you can create whatever you want to bring into reality...

Those 3 tools are...Thoughts...Words....deeds

It seems the collective thought of the North East United States was its time for a change...Our fellow Americans voted and now the change is going to become reality...

The results of the reality is any bodies guess...Personally...I can't stand the democratic leaders but then again..the truth was and is, that there was not enough in the northeast with the same thought patterns.

-- November 8, 2006 5:54 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, thanks for your thoughts. Well, I may be more positive than others, about the resuslts of the mid-term elections, that is true.

But I am not at all rosy about what it will take to wake America up. I think you are right about another Pearl Harbour, of some sort coming, or as Carol put it, a nuclear bomb in a suitcase. I think that is a fairly likely event, in my lifetime, and that many many Americans will die.

My guess is the Islamic fascists will nuke New York City. The reason they will pick that city is it has a lot of Jews in it. And hardcore Muslim radicals hate Jews. It says in the Hadith, (sayings of the Prophet Mohammed that determine Muslim life for Sunnis) that "Jews are brothers of pigs and monkeys".

If memory serves me, there are now more Jews in America, than Israel, and the greatest concentration, by far, of Jews is in New York City. So I'm guessing that New York is their big target, as well as Tel Aviv.

Unfortunately, a nuclear holocost is what I think it will take to wake the American people up, and engage them with this issue. I'm guessing a nuclear Holocost is coming some time in the next 10-15 years.

The reason I am willing to bet the Democrats will have to behave more responsibly in the future, is that once one nuclear bomb goes off, they will realize their own lives are at stake. I don't think 9-11 did it for them. It wasn't enough.

I think this ongoing battle with Islamic radicalism will go on for the rest of this century, so whether Democrats win a few seats this time, for me, is less than a bump in the road.

It's the big picture that will dictate events. As I have said before, not many people are noticing this, but Europe as we have known it for thousands of years, is more or less disappearing before our eyes. In a generation, two at most, it will be Muslim. The context for most America is that Europe has been more or less an ally, as well as motherland for most Americans. That will soon be gone. That will stengthen Muslim radicals. After Iran, I expect France to be the next Muslim nation with nuclear warheads. This will mean confrontation with America. As I have said before, I don't expect much of Europe to survive, but I do expect America to survive.

America will survive, Sara, because of people like you. I don't know if you are American, Sara, you might be British, but you are quite religious obviously, and America will survive because of it's Christians. To survive, countries, or people, need things to believe in. Europe doesn't have any. America does.

A number of people on this blog have wondered why there is so much religious commentary, of a personal and general nature, on the topic of the dinar, and the war in Iraq. To those people, I'd say, you don't know it yet, but your country is engaged at the start of a massive struggle for it's survival, and it centres around religion. Part of the viablitily of your investment centres around how America fights this new kind of war.

People who are not zealously religious, or are agnositic or atheistic have a very hard time understanding the power of religion. They usually say, "Religion is not my thing. I'm not interested in it." Well, to those people, I say, you may not be interested in religion, but believe me, religion is very interested in you.

I come from a fairly religious background, although I am not particularily religious right now, so I think it is easier, by experience, for me to see what is happening in the world right now. Whereas non-religious people seem generally a bit clued out about this whole thing with the Muslims.

Europeans especically seem very clued out. It is no longer a religious continent, with only 5% of people in Britain going to church. This is important in a number of ways. Having lost their religious faith, Europeans can't really understand the nature of the Islamic threat, they don't believe in anything, to counter it, they are so completely clueless they don't even recognize it's nature or existance, so they can't hope to fight it off.

A lot of Democrats are like that too. Fortunately, there are enough religiously Christian Americans, who understand religion, that far more Americans will be able to understand what's coming that Europeans. Americans will fight for the continuing existance of their country and religion and culture in the battles that lie ahead. I think it's something like 25% of Americans go to church regularily.

These people are the hope for America's future. American liberals and libertarians who are interested in free speach and the continuation of their culture, in the future, will be forced to work with Bible-thumping Christians.

That's one reason I continue to be postive about the future of this admittadly speculative investment. American Democrats will eventually start behaving better, because they will be forced to do so, by circumstances.

The troops will finish their jobs, the great oil machine will rev up, demand for oil will continue, and the dinar will revalue.

I just wouldn't buy any property in New York State.

-- November 8, 2006 10:30 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger: The Florida Keys? Sounds good. I'll have to dust off my copy of Key Largo. I'm a Bogie fan.

-- November 8, 2006 10:32 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: I've always enjoyed your comments. Thanks. Hope you continue to look in from time to time. You are a very thoughtful person.

I encourage you to talk about what is going on in the world with your religious friends. I think what happens in the world will be decided largely by what happens in Christian communities in America, in the next twenty years.

-- November 8, 2006 10:47 AM ∞

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Carole's Professor wrote:

That thesis was so horrible that it actually out my gerbils to sleep. How do you spell boring useless garbage? ans. ZZZZZZZZZZ...

back to dinars now.

-- November 8, 2006 11:07 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil: IMO? You lost me. What's that?

-- November 8, 2006 11:11 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

I predict this will ring heavy and loud in the new Democratic LeaderS Heads..

BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU PRAY AND ASK FOR....
AS YOU MAY JUST HAVE IT GIVEN TO YOU !

-- November 8, 2006 11:33 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: I think you are right. What you say reminds me of an old Spanish proverb:

There are only two ways to be cursed in life:

One, is to not get what you want in life.

The other, is to get what you want in life!

-- November 8, 2006 11:46 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil: Why did I lose you on my last post? Why do you disagree with my last post?

-- November 8, 2006 11:53 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Bye bye, you are sorely missed, and you have a wonderful way of describing yourself as an endless victim. You filled a whole boring post, where you envisioned yourself leaving in the sunset, the people standing at the dock waiving, confetti flying, and farewell banners flying, tugboats spraying water, and crying fans wishing you to come back soon.

In your head only. YOU have created your friends, but YOU have created your enemies also. The fact that you created enemies, is in your head appalling, and you choose to pose as a victim. You just don't take responsibility for you own creation, that simple.

It's never what you did against someone else, it's always what others completely uncalled for, did to you. Amazing. Puzzling. That's an irresponsible victim.

Perhaps this board can get back to what our interest is, the Dinar.

RE DEMOCRATS IN THE WINNING STREAK

Politics in general have alienated a lot of people, the participation in elections in this country would in most other countries make any election null and void.

What will a Democratic win mean for the development of Iraq, and thus the future of the Dinar?

I can see how more rhetoric, more issues about Iraq, more criticism coming from the House, but the fact is that there is a de facto situation, where a pullout can't be an overnight thing.

US never intended to be there as a force in any occupying capacity for long anyway.

The reason we're still there is the Iraqis own security situation, so it's more a matter for them to get it together, than for us to continue to be there.

Trying to see it from an Iraqi or Arab viewpoint, they know now, that the possibility of a withdrawal is more likely hurried up, with the Democrats in the lead in the US House, might be another incentive for them to get their own act together.

If Democrats are in the lead, I can't see that any of the, for us so important, rebuilt projects will be cancelled, but perhaps , in the Democrats nature of things, even add more projects to compensate for a pull out. Even better.

The whole situation in Iraq is anyway in the end stages, the oil will start pumping, and the situation will be changed. (Of course , visually we have insurgency now, and when the long planned projects of oil pumping starts , the situation reverses, the Democrats will take the honor for it, claiming it was THEIR policy that "fixed" Iraq, but that's another story.)

All in all, there are some new player on the scene here in the US, but in my humble opinion, the course of Iraq will continue to go in the direction we want it to go.

The Dinars will do what we want it to do.

-- November 8, 2006 12:01 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

I see we are back to the usual 'Sara's Religious Promotion Forum' Again.

"Sigh"

-- November 8, 2006 1:46 PM ∞

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Hot wrote:

Democrats and dinars don't mix. Any conservitive centered person should be worried about the republicans now being forced to become more moderate in their politics. This will slowly force conservitive politics out the window, and America will be ripe for destruction

-- November 8, 2006 2:40 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Carole:

I find it sad you have chosen to leave our little discussion board. I am sure for your own personal reasons you felt this the only recourse.

I would caution you to become more interested in the daily details of the Dinar. Without doing your own due dilligence and relying simply on hype, your discouragement has become evident. My posting is not an attempt to scold, but to prod to become knowledgeable about that which you and your family have invested in.

I would not reccommend investing in a currency, commodity, or stock because of friends and family have. A decision must be made from a basis of knowledge. This knowledge can sustain and prevent discouragement when bad news occurs.

All:
I am in agreement with Roger, our long term vision has not changed because the Democrats now control the House. I also do not believe the mission in Iraq will change because Donald Rumsfeld has resigned (http://www.cnn.com/).

Now that the mid-term elections are over, President Bush and Robert Gates can now shif their full attention to Iraq. Now we as investors can do the same.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 8, 2006 2:49 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim;

IMO is short for "In My Opinion".

I agree with you about the nuclear holocaust. I think that it is inevitable. Your statement:

"The reason I am willing to bet the Democrats will have to behave more responsibly in the future, is that once one nuclear bomb goes off, they will realize their own lives are at stake. I don't think 9-11 did it for them. It wasn't enough."

This statement is a hope is that there will be a US to pick up the pieces.. that there will be only ONE nuke go off.

Consider for a minute the strategy of the enemy to make the attack so devastating that there won't be any way to retaliate.

Is it beyond reason to think that may be their plan?

A plan to hobble the US BEFORE they have time to regroup and come after them with a vengence?

Let's go back to Pearl Harbor.

Do you remember Yamamoto said, "I fear all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with terrible resolve."

That was not Yamamoto's original intent - to merely awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with resolve.

Wikipedia article, "Attack on Pearl Harbor" states that "Yamamoto was angry at Nagumo for not launching the third attack

and not destroying the aircraft carriers and the oil supply soon after the attack." ("One of the main Japanese objectives was

to destroy the three American aircraft carriers stationed in the Pacific, but they were not present.") It is said

that when the word came back that they had not done this, he correctly said that the Japanese had lost the war.

The Japanese were trying to cripple the US's retaliatory abilities, not just give them a punch to the face to infuriate them.

The aim this time around is the same.

The terrorists won't go for one target.. they are going to go for them all.. to cripple the US.

I wrote this to Carole this morning:

Carole;

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree with you that this is God's permissive will we are seeing. Again, God recently allowed two World Wars (not to mention Vietnam), both of which were times of incredible evil. Each generation has to deal with the same questions.. and often history has to repeat itself.

I, too, see no alternative but a nuclear holocaust in the future if America continues in the current direction. The Democrats will blame all failures on Bush's unwillingness to pull out of Iraq, and while the US will be safe during the next two years of Bush's tenure as he pulls out all the stops to try and protect the homeland, when he leaves office the Democrats will spin it as the need to get rid of the old.. as they did this election - and if the people listen next time and the Democrats gain the Presidency because the people want peace at any cost, it will inevitably end in their own destruction.

Isa 3:12 As for My people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths."

The Democrats are leading the people to error.. to the destruction of all of North America. In the future, if President Bush is gone and there is a continuation of the discontent we have witnessed, the people will elect someone like Kerry whose only move will be to enhance the fortunes of the terrorists he has worked so hard to represent (knowingly or unknowingly, even as he did the Vietcong), by appeasement. The world will become a lot less safe, and terrorism will emerge as the global threat it already is, coming out of the closet and making itself comfortable and at home on US soil (with no fear of any nasty Patriot Act to deter them).

We know the borders are porous and the cels within the US exist.. the terrorists have told us so. The enemy only awaits the time when it is best to strike, and it won't be under Bush, because even the way it is now that would galvanize even Democratic support under him and the terrorists know what that would mean. They need a weak kneed Democrat in power before they strike - one who will not move decisively (or be likely to bomb mecca in retaliation) - and one continuing the strategy of lulling the people to sleep with Pollyanna antics and wasting time on things like inquiries and second guessing. The Middle East DESIGNED the game of chess, and they have played the Democrats like a fiddle, and well. They can wait to strike, manipulating these spineless Democrats who, as you pointed out Tim, haven't got a clue about the religious reasons behind things.. and when the terrorists make their move it will be devastating.

Beyond those earthly motives, one has to look to God, and you are right, Carole, when you said, "He stands back and gives this nation and this world what it wants".. God has taken a step toward giving this nation into the hands of the wicked and choosing to punish her for her sins. I was hopeful that God could overcome the evil in the nation, seeing and encouraging good - but this recent defeat of the rational side of the debate (using "Let's change direction" when the Democrats have no plan or ability to change it) has proven that optimism may be as foolish as looking to Sodom and Gomorrah and hoping that, because Lot and his family live there, God will not destroy it.

Someone once asked me if I had any personal experiences to relate concerning God. I avoided the question, seeking to remain only in that which is proven and.. well.. scientific. Much like you, Carole, I have a mind which works much less in the mystical than in the practical. However, God is in another realm than we are, and it means that sometimes He contacts us in ways which are not 2 + 2 = 4 or even E = MC2. That happened to me once before 911. God gave me a vision - the only experience of that type that I have ever had - and and I wish to share it with you now, though I know many will scoff at it, yet I believe it worth sharing as you just shared and encouraged me, for your sake and others like us who will hear it.

It was 7 months before 911 and I was going about my ordinary daily tasks and I sat down for a minute to take a break - suddenly I found myself looking down upon the earth from outerspace. To say one is suprised would be far too great an understatement. After the initial shock at being in this new place and no longer in familiar surroundings (and I didn't appear to have any visible body, I was just suspended there, incorporeal, above the earth), I noticed how incredibly beautiful the earth looked from that vantagepoint and I found I was hovering over North America and looking down upon it (it took up a good 92% of my view and appeared quite up close and personal. I don't remember seeing any stars, only black around the edges of this living globe and the sun was behind me illuminating the earth below me.) The thing I most remember thinking was that it looks vividly real and far different when there is no glass between you and it - as there is with photographs taken through the portal of a spaceship, or through the lens of a camera. I remember thinking that there is a great diminishing of the beauty of it when you take a picture.. and that the colors and reality and detail are truly breathtakingly beautiful. It is indescribably beautiful - the hues and colors and details show such splendor and brilliance.

I was gazing at North America below me, inhaling every detail I could when beneath me, I saw the Eastern North American seaboard light up like a Christmas tree, with simultaneous nuclear explosions all over the map. (There was no noise so I presume I was above the atmosphere.) As I watched this unfold I was gripped with a fear which was a terror beyond ANYTHING I have ever experienced. I suddenly felt the hand of the Lord on my right shoulder and He said, "It is alright. You are safe." And I suddenly knew that no harm would come to me and mine in this catastrophe which I was witnessing in real time right before my eyes. It takes many words to describe things which happened concurrently.. but let me say that it was REAL and I was witnessing events which were truly happening. I was, quite literally, watching the deaths of MILLIONS of people.

I noticed as I scrutinized the map with the nuclear explosions going off on it that there were no INCOMING missiles. I looked carefully in order to see if there were any incoming missiles or armed defense systems in response. There were none. This puzzled me exceedingly... until 911, learning about suitcase bombs, suicide attackers and the intent of Militant Islamic Jihadists. It all now fits together, but the pre-911 (Cold War) mentality was not adequate to understand what I was witnessing as I witnessed it.

After the vision faded.. I have from that day to this sought to stop that vision from ever becoming reality. Perhaps, I see now, it was a foolish choice. God's will is always done, even when we do not wish it. He will preserve me and for that I should be grateful. I can only say I am sorry for the Eastern North American people as American voters appear more than willing to embrace their end. I am truly starting to think the vision was not His PERMISSIVE will, but the unchangeable one.. no matter what we do.

If it helps, if you draw a line down the middle of North America, all the attacks were on the East of that line, the West was left unscathed. But all the major Eastern cities in Canada were likewise razed to the ground, Tim - your Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, etc. (I got a map out and drew out where the explosions were and then tried to figure out what was UNDER those explosions. Some were strange places - but upon researching it.. I found it was a key place for the military for all of Canada, etc. I am certain that every one of them were/are/will be strategic militarily. A couple were in the middle of nowhere.. secret bases, maybe? There were THREE simultaneous explosions discernable on the map in one place, Washington, D.C. - It was the largest.)

If the US continues to run from this war, listening to the drumbeat of the peaceniks, they will bring that holocaust I saw upon themselves by their inability to deal forthrightly with the enemy. It may be inevitable.. perhaps it always was and electing President Bush only bought us some time. Maybe the vision I was given was what would have happened THEN but now something similar will happen but not that exact recipe for disaster, because the people chose President Bush. I like to think so - which may be desperate wishful thinking because I do not wish this to happen, I admit. But however you cut it.. there never has been any appeasement possible (anymore than there was with the Nazis or Communists), and those who think there is do indeed lead the US to err.. and to destruction. They make the US put her guard down, and lull her to sleep.. until the suicide bombers are in place with their nuclear bombs.

I have opposed the Democrats from the first, knowing their view of the future (appeasement, pullout, more rights for terrorists, hampering fighting the war with all we have, peaceniking, discouragement over the costs of the war, etc) that view of theirs is leading to this kind of end - and it is a horrible end for so very many, many American people. I truly witnessed the deaths of millions of Americans in real time - I WAS THERE (and I would prefer it never to happen in any way, shape or form in the future, please God). Every step President Bush has taken was good and for the protection of the American people.. history will record this. This holocaust I know will not happen under his watch due to his diligence, but in time, if the American people choose the direction of the Democrats, I believe that this will be their destructive end.

Like you, Carole, I believe in a "permissive" will of God. I have been hoping this vision was only that.. that it could be changed.. that what I had witnessed was only the way it WOULD go IF things kept on the way they were now. That if only people would WAKE UP to the threat and fight this threat now before it reached those proportions, it could be avoided. But the majority of the American people have proven themselves to be intractable and unwilling to listen to truth or reason. They glibly imbibe lies the MSM feeds them and do not seek out or care about real truth. They have chosen a false peace - a peace at any cost - which will lead them to destruction. When President Bush said:

"The people that would assume power are the very ones who oppose letting people keep more of their own money, and then when it came time to fighting this war on terror we had votes on whether or not we should be able to listen to al-Qaeda or an al-Qaeda affiliate making a phone call to the United States and the overwhelming majority of House Democrats voted against that bill. Or when it came time to question detainees that we picked up on the battlefield, the overwhelming majority of House and Senate Democrats voted against that bill. So there's just a different mindset, Rush, a different attitude about how to protect the American people. My attitude is to give the professionals the tools, and to stay on the offense and fight the enemy wherever we find them and defeat them overseas so we don't have to face them here."

I thought that would resonate with the American people - their own safety. But it hasn't and what I saw in that vision is at this point the inevitable future as a result of the soft choices the Democrats have already shown they will make. "Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths." I believe it is so. America is following a pied piper.. and to the same end. Those following the pied piper just disappeared, even so, many Americans will just disappear.. only in a nuclear holocaust which rewrites the map of the world and all geopolitical factors. As I said to Tim, they won't go for ONE nuke, they will use them ALL.

Sara.

PS Carole - if you leave I am only left with the hostile comments of Nelly B, Hot, Mark, and sometimes Carl and Roger, etc. It was nice to have some support for the religious view.. do wish you would stay. If not, do email me when you get the chance. God Bless you.

-- November 8, 2006 2:52 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

Roger,

If there is one person on the blog that would not be missed at all, it would be you. You think in your own mind that you contribute to this dinar discussion in some big way. Some of us who read each day for some news on the dinar couldn't care less if you ever put another post on. Why don't you try some of your own advise

-- November 8, 2006 2:58 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Sara,

Thanks for being willing to share your vision. It took immense courage with the tone that this board takes sometimes.

The truth is that the American people are asleep the same way we were before Pearl Harbor.

We choose to believe that people are naturally good inside and would be act better if we would just be nicer.

Ever wonder why we have not been successful at brokering a deal between the Israelis and Palestinians? It's because the issue is spiritual. We think it's all about land and don't understand their issues.

Despite your vision and what I know is going to occur, being a student of Bible prophecy, I choose to be optomistic because I know that God is in control. The end of Revelation 3 tells our fate. We are not destined for wrath. I'm on the southern eastern seaboard and if it happens I just hope it's close and over with because I know where I'm going

For those of you who think that Jesus was a religious Rodney King limping around with a lisp saying "can't we all just get along?" I got to tell you that perception is wrong. he was a warrior at heart and he said something that maybe uncomplimentary to some of you. He told the disciples "don't cast your pearls before swine". Sara has at great risk of retribution cast plenty of pearls. Your response determines the kind of meat you are. JMO

Back to the Dinar.

I hope to enjoy mine before the explosion.

I was reading on another blog that most investors don't personally know anybody else who is a Dinar investor. As a matter of fact they tell that when they try and recommend the Dinar as an investment they get glazed over eyes. As a result they were suggesting that there maybe not so many who are investors because they can't see the investment value. Are people similarly as asleep when it come to this investment opportunity?

I certainly that found the same thing even among those I've know who served over there.

Has anybody else seen the same thing?

-- November 8, 2006 3:35 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

BYE BYE CAROLE!! PS TAKE SARA WITH YOU! (nut bags)

Speaking of nuts.. Do you know why Squirrels sleep pn their stomachs? -- To keep their nuts warm.

Haven't been back to this board to read in a while. Glad to see the winds of change are blowing through.

Roger-- you can definately stay. At least you post useful intelligent information about dinars and Iraq.

-- November 8, 2006 4:11 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

You people are crazy!!

Several months ago, I use to read this forum daily (most days a number of times per day) -- it slowly got worse and worse, changing from a dinar forum to a religious lecture/lesson forum, then un-necessary bashing!

Come on people -- you've got the makings and an outstanding forum ... I hope you make it, but I won't be back to see ... good luck and God bless!

-- November 8, 2006 4:37 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil, everything I write is, In My Opinion. Take that as a given, in anything I say. I'm confident in my viewpoint, but always willing to be challenged and corrected. If I'm right, time will tell. If I'm wrong, time will tell. So, everything I write is opinion, unless I through in some facts, to bolster my arguement. My opinion is not the final authority on anything.

I'm not alone in this. The whole Dinar investment I made was based on an educated guess, in other words, my opinion. No on really knows what will happen in the future. We can all only guess.

Another one of my opinions is that there are some very smart guessers on the board.

-- November 8, 2006 4:49 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara: I have a book recommendation for you; Prayers for an Assassin, by novelist Robert Ferrigno. He maps out, in novel form, what an Islamic Republic of America would look like, if the fanatics set off a bunch of nuclear bombs, destroying the United States. He has a map in the jacket cover of his book, of where the nukes went off. If you get ahold of the book, let me know if your vision was similar to his.

-- November 8, 2006 5:10 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

You know, TAYLOR, it really is nuts to care about people like you..
and that you don't die a horrible or meaningless death.
Maybe it really is nuts not to be so self centered and concentrated
on my own wealth (the Dinar) and happiness..
but then.. they wouldn't be called pearls if they weren't something precious.
What does a pig do with a pearl anyway? It is of no use to you..
the pearl of care for the fate of others is lost on the likes of you.

Tim Bitts, Chris, Valerio;

Thanks, kind posts. :) Oh, and Tim, I did look up the book. A work of fiction -
it ends with the US becoming Islamic. I still do not see it that way, in spite
of my pessimistic view from the results of the election. I took it as a warning -
of what can happen if we are not careful. The terror I felt was not for myself.
There is no need to share any more.. chuckle, I will keep the pearls I have left.

Sara.

-- November 8, 2006 5:51 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

This is inter-net, no one can force anyone to go, it's by nature an impossibility, any presence on this site is only a couple of clicks away. We can always WISH someone to stay or go, but it's not in our power to actually enforce any of that, so the only way one can go, is by removing him/herself, by his/her own will.

Nellie B.

Haven't sen you for a while, not that you missed anything important other than a former member of the blog left (very much missed) when you were gone, Welcome back.

Sarah,

Naaa, c'mon Sara, I don't have the evil eye towards you, I do agree in big part with the consensus that it's a bit much on the religious side here on occasion, and you seem to be in the midst of it. I might have a comment of some disapproval nature about that, other than that, you don't have an enemy in me.

About Pearl Harbor, yes, it was a brilliant tactical victory, but a strategic disaster for the Japanese. The attack itself could have been even more successful have they gone in with the third wave, and as originally intended, take out the oil, and repair facilities on Pearl Harbor. Had that happened, the US would have had no other recourse other than withdraw to the mainland with it's fleet.

If Iran or any other terrorist group decides they will smuggle in nuclear weapons, they are however bound to do a number of small ones, as really big war heads, capable of destroying bigger areas, will by necessity take so much more space.

If they succeed in bringing in nukes, the bomb in itself will be fairly small, it will be a very big bang, but compared with other nuclear warheads, they will be comparably very small, so they need to bring in a substantial number to cover a bigger area like New York or L.A area.

There will be a loss of life, but as the smuggled warheads will be very small warheads, the terrorists will probably by necessity select targets where people are gathered, cruise ship, football stadium etc, if they want to inflict maximum damage.

The infra structure of the USA will hardly be touched, unless they take out a bridge or tunnel, but in the whole picture, it will be a blow to moral, and economy more than actual damage to the country.

9/11 took out about one city block, and a great number of people.

Setting moral and ethic aside, only looking at numbers, they took out 3000 people roughly, but the population is 300 million people. Of all the business squares there is in the US, ONE was taken out.

Looking at it from that perspective, I don't think the possible damage will be in the same range as when we were facing the Soviets. The stuff they could hurl our way, and the stuff that we could hurl their way, was really destructive stuff.

Also, they get ONE jab, and after that point we will be on the offensive, and whoever feel they were responsible for those smuggled suitcase bombs, will you please raise your hand.

It is a possibility, a strong possibility yes, not a good scenario at all, but it will not be the end of the US or the end of the world, perhaps the end of the existence for the country where the suitcases originated.

Valerio,

Sorry, I'm here, get used to it.

TAYLOR,

Who can go and who can stay, well, I refer to my above posting. Try to live with Sarah. She's cool in my book. I noticed that you react very hard on religious stuff.

As a kid my grandmom took me to her church, it was a small little wooden shack, packed with people, hot and humid. Then they started to pray, speaking in tongues, shaking and all that.

For a very long time, I really resented, and thought all the religious persons were completely nuts, as time has passed and I have gained some insight myself in spiritual stuff, it doesn't matter no more. I would not necessarily agree with their view, but then again, very few agree with my view in those questions, so I'm just happy and content as it is.

On the point of this being a Dinar site, I agree. There will always be some filling and other subjects floating around, but the site have always come back to being a Dinar site, even though it seems sometime that it too heavily was steering towards being a religious site.

I think the board itself will show it's tolerance level. Most of the board will tolerate quite a bit, but if it continues and continues in another direction, other than the Dinars, the board will revolt. This have happened a couple of times.

You sure have a very short fuse when it comes to religion, it's your right. I am a bit curious though, and humbly wonder if you might care to develop on that.

Chris,

Yes, I don't know of many people that are investing in Dinars. I manage to enthusiast friends, but when checking in later, they didn't do anything about it.

I think it takes a bit of education in the whole subject, as the apparent investment seem to be very much associated with insurgency, car bombs, and death squads. The bummer is, that, to communicate all the intricacies of the investment opportunity, almost takes a three hour lecture to convey a solid picture. The attention span with most of my friends are way way shorter than that.

All my friends lives on a dirt road.

Rumsfeldt, the Secretary of Defence,

Gone with the wind, I agree with Rob N, that this will not change a lot in the whole picture. The exact reason he is leaving seems to smell internal friction more than overall policy.

As far as I'm concerned, he did ok, but have read lately that more and more of the men under him, are objecting to his ways. Well, apparently this is more of a work conflict other than anything else.

Anonymous,

Whats your name?

Hot,

Democrats and Republicans have ruled this country in shifts, each time one takes over, the other side predicts the end of the world.

Hot, as you are located in China, and don't know all the small details here, I will let you in on a secret when it comes to American politics.

You must promise to hold it as a secret, because if it is revealed, the whole voting system will collapse.

Republicans, or Democrats....its the same s..t in different wrapping.

Remember ....SHHHHHHHHH!!!

Hey, you never answered my question last time, can you buy Dinars in China?

Are you on the mainland or in Taiwan?

-- November 8, 2006 6:01 PM ∞

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Terrance wrote:

Sara girl,

Roger really does like you, he just doesn't want you to talk about Jesus....that's all.

Funny how the that one name divides like that.......but to us it's no surprise is it?

From one >

Terrance on the West Coast :)

-- November 8, 2006 6:38 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

I'm glad you are not my enemy. :) I'm not yours, either. :)

I also hope your "small bombs" theory is the current way it is...

and what I saw (pre-911) was only what would happen IF America had not gone to war with Iraq.

I hope that the choice to engage in this war changed that dynamic.. that is my hope.

Obviously, if Gore were in office, the way would have been appeasement, not war - so changing

that dynamic. President Bush and the Congress chose this way, and I think it addresses it.

Certainly the US is prepared and watching such threats, whereas, before 911 (when I was given that..)

such a thing would certainly have been seen as far more "nuts" as a possibility than now.

We just hadn't a clue then - which is why they were so ill prepared for the attacks on the towers,

and handled it so very wrong. I hope that 911 was our Pearl Harbor.. avoiding the calamity I witnessed.

Changing the timeline, as it were, of history. That what I saw was a POTENTIAL future, not THE future..

But.. that is a pretty darned rosy view of it.. there are other ones.. and I don't see how come

with the sorts of porous borders the US has with Mexico, they can't just smuggle in many pieces..

more and more over time.. until they get them all for the kind of massive attack I saw, seeking to do

a knockout blow. Folks smuggle drugs all the time over the border.. why not bomb bits - over time, it adds up.

And I do appreciate your posts and that you contribute a lot of good stuff to the forum.

In some areas we don't agree.. it is good to have someone who has the maturity to just skip it and move on.

I appreciate your perspective, even if I cannot agree with you on every point all the time. :)

Sara.

-- November 8, 2006 6:51 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Terrance...

Yes, Jesus has always been a controversial topic.

It isn't suprising, after all..

And I'm glad you are on the West Coast. :)

Sara.

-- November 8, 2006 6:59 PM ∞

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Hot wrote:

Roger,
In mainland...Yes dinar can be purchased through a variety of sources.
You are funny man

-- November 8, 2006 8:43 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

The Central Bank witnesses the highest circulation and exchange rate of the dollar in 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

08 November 2006 (Iraq Directory)
The auction of the Iraqi Central Bank witnessed yesterday, Tuesday, the highest demand on purchasing the dollar during the current year as well as the higher exchange rate for the dollar for over a year. Also, several banks sold dollars to the Bank where the demand for purchase registered $109 million and 150 thousand, compared with 70 million during the previous session.

The demand registered yesterday was the highest during the current year and the bank fully covered it with the minimum exchange rate for the current year, recording 1468 dinars against 1470 dinars in the previous session: 41 million and 650 thousand dollars in cash and 67 million and 500 thousand dollars in the form of remittances to outside the country.

In return, Banks submitted bids to sell the dollar, hit three million dollars, at an exchange rate of 1466 dinars all bought by the Bank.
The economic expert, Abdul Razzaq Al-Abayachi, said that several factors helped to raise demand for the dollar; the most important of which are the suspension of the auction for more than five days because of the curfew and the holiday on Friday and Saturday, as well as the high volume of remittances after sentencing the former President, Saddam Hussein, to death due to peoples fear of deteriorating the security situation.

-- November 8, 2006 9:33 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

print article
Mixed reaction from troops downrange to election results

By Ben Murray and Charlie Coon, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Thursday, November 9, 2006

Charlie Coon / S&S
Master Sgt. Derek Hayes of Headquarters Company, 1st Marines Logistics Group, beleives the U.S. must stay in Iraq for now. “If you mess up someone’s house, you’ve got to clean it up,” Hayes said.

Courtesy of Teddy Aarstad
In Kandahar, Afghanistan, Spc. Teddy Aarstad, of the 159th Medical Detachment (AA), said he doesn’t believe having Democrats will result in any immediate changes in U.S. policy in the Mideast.

Courtesy of Marion L. Boyanton
At Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, Chief Petty Officer Marion L. Boyanton said the election results prove “the majority of Americans think of themselves as Americans first, and Democrats or Republicans second.”

Troops interviewed in the Middle East on Wednesday said the Democrats would find no easy answers to the war.

Almost all shared their thoughts on the election before the Wednesday announcement of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s resignation.

Asked how Rumsfeld’s resignation would affect troops in Iraq, a spokesman for Multi-National Forces-Iraq responded with a one-sentence e-mail: “The troops of MNF-I will continue to perform their mission with the same courage, dedication, and professionalism as they do every day,” said Lt. Col. Christopher Garver.

Some troops, before the announcement of Rumsfeld’s resignation, were cautiously optimistic that the situation might improve, although they doubted there would be immediate changes.

In Balad, Iraq, Spc. Pamela Michaud from the 558th Signal Company said a bit of new direction could be good for the troops.

“There’s nothing wrong with having a change,” Michaud said. “We might as well try to get something out of it.”

Staff Sgt. Michael Grabowski with the 3rd Medical Command in Balad said Democrats needed to get past the practice of simply criticizing President Bush and Rumsfeld and their reasons for going to war, and produce a substantive plan to move forward.

“What is your plan?” he asked. “To cut and run will just destabilize the Middle East.”

Now that the Democrats have regained some power after spending months attacking the administration, Grabowski said, they’ll have to face the realities of holding the responsibility.

“I think that they will basically discover … there’s no easy answers, there’s no easy one-shot cure,” he said.

Staff Sgt. Heather Adams, 26, a reservist with 3rd Battalion, 135th Aviation Brigade in Balad, worried that a divided or Democratically controlled Congress would make it harder for the military to get the manpower and equipment it needs in Iraq.

“I think there will probably be a stalemate on any resources we need,” Adams said.

Even at this stage of the war, Adams said, she knew of some troops that didn’t have the newest, safest type of helmet.

Adams cited a statement by Bush that he would approve any number of troops that commanders in the field called for, and wondered whether that kind of maneuver would be possible with a Democratic-controlled House.

“I have a feeling they’ll end up pulling troops out of here,” she said.

Pfc. NaToshya Fisher, 21, a Republican from Mineral Wells, Texas, with the 368th Cargo Transfer Company in Balad, has a different opinion.

“We’re going to be here for a while no matter who’s in [Congress],” she said.

At Camp Taqaddum, Iraq, west of Fallujah, election results didn’t reach the troops until after lunch.

Master Sgt. Derek Hayes of Headquarters Company, 1st Marines Logistics Group, said the troops were just pawns to both Democrats and Republicans. He favored the U.S. staying in Iraq for now.

“If you mess up someone’s house, you’ve got to clean it up,” Hayes said. “I echo the president — we’ve got to stay until the job is done, whatever that means, because it means different things to different people.”

“Personally, I’m upset (with the results), but what are you going to do?” said Lance Cpl. Jackie Ravelo of the group’s operations office. “I don’t think it’ll affect us getting out of here any sooner.”

Others also wondered whether the Democrats’ campaign pitches would have any effect on the ground in Iraq.

“From all of them I’ve heard, ‘time line, time line, time line,’ ” said Sgt. 1st Class John Clipp of 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, who is finishing a one-year tour at Camp Corregidor in Ramadi and was waiting for a flight back to Fort Campbell, Ky.

“I think they (Democrats) will push for a withdrawal or some kind of plan,” he said. “I would like to see a time line. On the other hand, we have a mission to do.”

In Kandahar, Afghanistan, Spc. Teddy Aarstad, 29, of the 159th Medical Detachment (AA), out of Wiesbaden, Germany, had doubts there would be about-face.

“I think a lot of people expect that [with] the Democrats, once they gain control of the House and the Senate … there’s going to be almost a complete reversal in policy and I don’t necessarily think that’s going to happen, but I think, at this point, it remains to be seen,” said Aarstad, from Duvall, Wash.

Maj. Jason Crowe, at Camp Eggers, Afghanistan, with the Combined Security Transition Command-Afghanistan, is redeploying to the States in three days.

He thought the results indicated a move toward “a more moderate position between left and right.”

“Hopefully, it will cause the two primary political parties to cooperate…,” said Crowe, 37, from Winchester, Ky.

Dwaine Nolte, a civilian at Forward Operating Base Salerno, Afghanistan, said he thought most people voted based on backyard issues, not real issues affecting their future.

With the Democrats making gains, he said, “It will be difficult to continue fighting terrorism across the global theater, and the president’s decisions will be more of a struggle.”

In Kuwait, Chief Petty Officer Marion L. Boyanton, with Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 5 in Camp Arifjan, was “just thrilled” with the election results.

“I think that America voted their conscience,” he said.

“I think we might start directing more pressure [for the Iraqis to take] responsibility for their own country. I think this proves the majority of Americans think of themselves as Americans first, and Democrats or Republicans second,” he said.

-- November 8, 2006 9:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hot,

You may not know it, but the Chinese culture is very strong in the Western Culture.

You can go to the smallest town in any town in Europe or Americas, and go to a Chinese restaurant. I'm not an expert but can eat with chopsticks without loosing too much food over the table.

As late as yesterday I had a Sechuwan Beef.(Not sure about the spelling)

The Chinese was preferred in older days as workforce because of much better work ethics, when the train track over the Sierra Nevada mountains was built, they couldn't find enough white Europeans or any one else to work on it, that was dependable enough. They were all drunks. So the Chinese built it.

There are still China Towns in many big cities. Some streets in Oakland Ca, have Chinese as first language on the street sign, and English in smaller text. There are a lot of TV stations running Chinese program only, in the Chinese language.

Not far from where I live, there was a very big battle, by two Chinese armies (in California), it was two families that wanted to settle a score. It was the biggest battle with the biggest Chinese army outside of China. The old Gold rush town is still named Chinese camp.

More than half of the tools I own is made in China, and a lot of my electronics as well.

My AK 47 is made by Norico,(got it on a sale). I see Asian faces everyday, and I just wanted you to know that your culture have done a lot of impact over here, and the Chinese is in no way or form anything foreign or unknown for us.

We might have some disagreement about Communism, but then again, China is not doing Communism at all right now, but is a very capitalistic society, it's a Communist rubber stamp only. I don't know if you are in a position to discuss that, from where you are, but don't worry, it's only a matter of time before that system will fall.

Interesting you are able to buy Dinars, seems like there is no shortage of Dinars investors all over the world.

Mary Lou,

Good find, yes it pretty much mirrors the idea I've seen floating around here, that the Democratic win, and Rumsfeldt's leaving, will not be a panic.

Sarah,

Well , what we did discuss was small bombs, individually smuggled in, in parts. It does however take quite a technical apparatus to assemble a nuclear bomb.

A nuclear bomb, is in function and form a very simple thing, however you should know that it is an engineers nightmare to make it work.

My take is....if we are continuing to spin on the possibility of a smuggled bomb...that because of technical reason it has to come fairly complete, and already engineered. Some side parts may be engineered in such a way that they might be disassembled, but the nuclear fuel, its form it's position and the cavity they are resting in, is an almost must, that it has to come as one pre engineered, premade unit.

That has to be a very small unit if it is to be smuggled.

Alternatively a bigger unit might be smuggled in with a boat, and exploded while still in the boat, but that will reveal it's source immediately, by re running satellite images, and if the point of origin wants to stay cloaked, this will not happen.

However, there are not too many sources to choose from. Especially if one of the enemy countries are going public with their intentions, pretty dumb. BOOM! here goes the bomb, wonder who it was?????

-- November 9, 2006 3:33 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Roger,

There seems to be no shortage of investors in many countries but I'm beginning to think that the average person is like your friends on the dirt road - they just can't see it.

I saw discussion about the fact that RV would bankrupt the Iraq. Maybe not if the average person is a "dirt road" investor. maybe there are not so many NID investors afterall.

One thing you can be sure of. When RV happens, the same people you tried to educate on the investment will come back and tell you that you did something unethical to earn your millions and somehow you made it on the backs of others. Much like how the Kennedy fortune was made during prohabition.

Not sure how many of you were able to see the value in this investment but I worked with Iraqi Americans in the sand box who educated me on what happended in Kuwait. They knew the history of the ID and by the time I was done listening I was sold.

-- November 9, 2006 7:23 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Carole,

Sorry to see you go. If you see this, I very much caution you not to e-mail Sara, or anyone else.
There is something very fishy about the relationship she has with Roger and Carl.

Be careful! And God Bless you.

-- November 9, 2006 9:08 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Anonymous:

You are right...we are all three fishing buddies..

Yep! The first thing I noticed about your post was your quickness..
If you don't like Roger and I thats OK with US...but just as carole aquainted roger to witchcraft because he talks to me...puts you doing the same thing with Sara...

Sara is her own person and carries herself with dignity and respect for others.I believe her post indicate she is a strong independent thinker...and does not carry water for anybody..

Carole and yourself come out of the same thought pattern bag..

-- November 9, 2006 9:42 AM ∞

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paul wrote:

Chris,
I would like to think that I am investing in the future of Iraq. I am betting on peace and prosperity for Iraq.

-- November 9, 2006 10:50 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Paul,

Good that you understand investing and that risk goes with it.

I can't help but think about the guy who bought Martha Stewart stock then sued her because it went down.

There are no guarentess in life except for death, taxes and more taxes.

Just saw a news bite of Nancy pelosi talking about re-deployment of troops. The Dems were talking about pulling out some months ago, then when they got heat, changed to re-deployment. For those not in the military - deployment is going and re-deployment is going home.

Change in terminology not philosophy

-- November 9, 2006 11:31 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

This article written before the election is very long but very interesting.

Question - If a male suicide bomber blows himself up to get 72 virgins what is the female suicide bomber looking for?

*********************************************************

November 06, 2006
The Only Issue This Election Day
By Orson Scott Card

There is only one issue in this election that will matter five or ten years from now, and that's the War on Terror.

And the success of the War on Terror now teeters on the fulcrum of this election.

If control of the House passes into Democratic hands, there are enough withdraw-on-a-timetable Democrats in positions of prominence that it will not only seem to be a victory for our enemies, it will be one.

Unfortunately, the opposite is not the case -- if the Republican Party remains in control of both houses of Congress there is no guarantee that the outcome of the present war will be favorable for us or anyone else.

But at least there will be a chance.

I say this as a Democrat, for whom the Republican domination of government threatens many values that I hold to be important to America's role as a light among nations.

But there are no values that matter to me that will not be gravely endangered if we lose this war. And since the Democratic Party seems hellbent on losing it -- and in the most damaging possible way -- I have no choice but to advocate that my party be kept from getting its hands on the reins of national power, until it proves itself once again to be capable of recognizing our core national interests instead of its own temporary partisan advantages.

To all intents and purposes, when the Democratic Party jettisoned Joseph Lieberman over the issue of his support of this war, they kicked me out as well. The party of Harry Truman and Daniel Patrick Moynihan -- the party I joined back in the 1970s -- is dead. Of suicide.

The "War on Terror"

I recently read an opinion piece in which the author ridiculed the very concept of a "war on terror," saying that it makes as much sense as if, after Pearl Harbor, FDR had declared a "war on aviation."

Without belaboring the obvious shortcomings of the analogy, I will agree with the central premise. The name "war on terror" clearly conceals the fact that we are really at war with specific groups and specific nations; we can no more make war on a methodology than we can make war on nitrogen.

However, there are several excellent reasons why "War on Terror" is the only possible name for this war.

1. This is not a war that can be named for any particular nation or region. To call it "The Iraq War" or the "Afghanistan War" would lead to the horrible mistake of thinking that victory would consist of toppling certain governments and then going home.

In fact, it is precisely the name "War in Iraq" that is leading to the deep misconceptions that drive the Democratic position on the war. If this were in fact a war on Iraq, then in one sense we won precisely when President Bush declared victory right after we occupied Baghdad. And in another sense, we might not see victory for another five years, or even a decade -- a decade in which Americans will be dying alongside Iraqis. For a "War in Iraq" to linger this way is almost too painful to contemplate.

But we are not waging a "War in Iraq." We are waging a world war, in which the campaigns to topple the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan were brilliantly successful, and the current "lukewarm" war demands great patience and determination from the American people as we ready ourselves for the next phase.

2. We cannot name this war for our actual enemies, either, because there is no way to name them accurately without including some form of the word "Islam" or "Muslim."

It is our enemies who want to identify this as a war between Islam and the West. If we allow this to happen, we run the risk of achieving the worst of all possible outcomes: The unification of one or both of the great factions of worldwide Islam under a single banner.

President Bush and his administration have shown their grasp of our present danger by stoutly resisting all attempts to rename this war. We call it a "War on Terror" because that allows us to cast it, not as a war against the Muslim people, with all their frustrations and hopes, but a war in which most Muslims are not our enemies at all.

That can be galling for many Americans. When, after the fall of the towers on 9/11, Palestinians and others poured into the streets, rejoicing, it was tempting to say, A plague on all of them!

But it is precisely those people -- the common people of the Muslim world, most of whom hate us (or claim to hate us, when asked by pollsters in police states) -- whom we must treat as if they were not our enemies. They are the ones we must win over for us to have any hope of victory without a bloodbath poured out on most of the nations of the world.

Nation Building

Another charge against the Bush administration's conduct of the war is that they are engaged in the hopeless task of "nation-building." And this is true -- except for the word "hopeless."

But what is the alternative? I've heard several, each more disastrous and impossible and even shameful than the one before.

In the New Testament, Jesus once used the analogy of a person who was possessed by a devil. When you cast out the devil, don't you leave an empty house, swept clean, to which seven devils will now come to live, making things worse than ever?

No matter which miserable dictatorship we moved against after the Taliban -- and we had no choice but to keep moving on if we were to eradicate the grave danger we faced (and face) -- we would have faced the same problem in Syria or Iraq or Sudan that we had in Afghanistan: We had to establish order in a nation that had never actually become a nation.

The boundaries on the ground in the Middle East were not formed in the traditional way -- by compromise or war. Instead, European powers drew lines that pleased their fancy. The lines did not create the hatreds that plague the region, but they guaranteed that traditional enemies would have to face each other within these boundaries.

It is in part because of the resulting chaos and oppression that groups like the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and the Shiite fundamentalists of Iran have been given an opportunity to offer the solution of returning to the core values of Islam -- as defined, of course, to their private advantage.

If we topple one government and then walk away, the result in any Middle Eastern nation would be civil war, and the probable winner would be the well-funded international terrorist groups that do not shrink from wholesale murder in pursuing their cause.

Just as Kerensky's attempt at a liberal government in revolutionary Russia was almost instantly snuffed out by Lenin's Bolshevik thugs in 1917, so also would any attempt at unified democratic government in Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Afghanistan be quickly converted into Islamo-fascism of one stripe or another.

And if that happened, Islamicist puritanism would be seen in every nation as the "wave of the future." Just as, when Nazi Germany was in the ascendant, the nations of southeastern Europe quickly made their accommodation with Hitler, since the alternative was to be swept away like Poland, France, or Yugoslavia, so also would nominally democratic nations adopt the trappings of Islamicism -- if they weren't already toppled by puritan revolutions from within.

Democracy -- the Other Hope

Wherever Islamicism has been tried, the result has been identical to Communism's miserable track record. The people are oppressed; the worst sort of vigilantes and thugs terrorize the population; the new power elite, regardless of their supposed piety and dedication to a holy cause, is quickly corrupted and comes to love the wealth and privileges of power.

When there is no hope of deliverance, the people have no choice but to bow under the tyrant's lash, pretending to be true believers while yearning for relief. In Russia it came ... after more than seventy years. China and Cuba are still waiting -- but then, they started later.

So it would be in the Muslim world -- if Islamicism were ever able to come to seem inevitable and irresistible.

You know: If America withdrew from Iraq and Afghanistan and exposed everyone who had cooperated with us to reprisals.

As happened in South Vietnam. The negotiated peace was more or less holding after American withdrawal. But then a Democratic Congress refused to authorize any further support for the South Vietnamese government. No more armaments. No more budget.

In other words, we forcibly disarmed our allies, while their enemies continued to be supplied by the great Communist powers. The message was clear: Those who rely on America are fools. We didn't even have the decency to arrange for the evacuation of the people who had trusted us and risked the most in supporting what they thought was our mutual cause.

We did it again, this time in the Muslim world, in 1991, when Bush Senior encouraged a revolt against Saddam. He meant for the senior military officers to get rid of him in a coup; instead, the common people in the Shiite south rose up against Saddam.

Bush Senior did nothing as Saddam moved in and slaughtered them. The tragedy is that all it would have taken is a show of force on our part in support of the rebels, and Saddam's officers would have toppled him. Only when it became clear that we would do nothing did it become impossible for any high-ranking officials to take action. For the price of the relatively easy military action that would have made Saddam turn his troops around and leave the Shiite south, we could have gotten rid of him then -- and had grateful friends, perhaps, in the Shiite south.

That is part of our track record: Two times we persuaded people to commit themselves to action against oppressive enemies, only to abandon them. Do you think that would-be rebels in Iran and Syria and North Korea don't remember those lessons?

Fortunately, there are other lessons as well: West Germany and Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, where liberated nations were protected. In the first two, we took on the task of nation building and transformed both political cultures into democracies. In the latter two, we tolerated strongman dictatorships for many years, but eventually we made it clear that it was time for democracy, and under our protective umbrella, the governments were transformed and oppression ended.

So ... which America is operating now in the Muslim world?

In Iraq and Afghanistan -- but especially Iraq -- President Bush is behaving according to America's best and most honorable tradition. We did not come to destroy, we came to liberate and rescue, he says -- by word and deed. We bring freedom and opportunity. Our money will help rebuild your devastated (or never built-up) economies; our expertise will help train your most talented people to be ready for prosperity and self-government; and our military will keep enemies from overwhelming you as you reinvent yourselves.

Instead of leaving an empty house, swept clean but unprotected, waiting for the devils of Islamic puritanism to come take over, President Bush has sworn that America will bring democracy, and that American soldiers will do their best to protect the decent, ordinary people until they are able to protect themselves.

The Competing Stories

Here's the story the Islamic puritans are telling: The West is full of terrible evils -- atheism, sexual filth of all kinds -- in defiance of God's will. So seductive are the wiles of Shaitan that many Muslims aspire to dress, act, and live like westerners. Only by turning to full enforcement of ancient Muslim law can Islam purify itself and resist the blandishments of the west. It's evil on one side, God on the other.

If all we had to answer them was Hollywood movies, politically correct anti-religious dogmas, and the other trappings of a West that is almost as decadent as the Islamicists claim, then we would only prove their point.

Instead, President Bush has offered something quite different. We don't want to turn you into mini-Americas, he says. We offer you, instead, democracy, in which you can choose for yourselves what parts of western culture to adopt. You will govern yourselves. It isn't a choice between wickedness and righteousness, it's a choice between freedom and oppression.

In other words, through nation-building, through the promise of democracy, Bush has created a rallying point with far stronger resonance than anything the Islamic puritans have to offer.

What is their program, after all? We'll take your sons and get them to blow themselves up in order to murder westerners! Forget the rhetoric -- Muslim parents are human beings, and there is nothing more devastating than to lose a child. The only consolation is when it seems to be in a noble cause. But because of President Bush's promise of democracy, the Muslim puritan cause does not seem noble to more and more Muslims.

Even if they live in countries (or neighborhoods) where they dare not speak up -- yet -- they do not want any of their children to die just so that the rest of them can live and suffer in slavery to a privileged, selfish class of elitist tyrants.

President Bush's story offers the common people hope of living decent lives and seeing their children live to adulthood, to grow old surrounded by grandchildren.

The Al-Qaeda, Ayatollah story promises them dead children and the lash.

There are, of course, fanatics who will embrace Islamic terrorism because they choose to blind themselves to the truth and embrace the noble-seeming lies of the tyrants. Al-Qaeda does not lack for recruits.

But it also does not lack for people who fear and hate them. There are few pro-Al-Qaeda demonstrations on the Arab street. The people remember the images of liberated Iraqis tearing down the images of Saddam. And they know -- because they have relatives and friends, they hear from merchants and travelers -- that in most of Iraq, there is freedom and prosperity like never before.

They're getting the story, at the level of gossip and personal anecdote, that the anti-American media -- you know, Al-Jazirah and the New York Times -- never report: The Americans really mean to give the Iraqis self-government.

You hear about the power outages in Iraq and it's always somehow Bush's fault. What nobody points out is that these outages come in places where Saddam barely offered electricity at all. The reason the new power systems can't cope is because the newly prosperous Iraqi people are buying -- and plugging in -- vast quantities of electrical appliances they could never afford to buy before! When a town that used to have two dozen refrigerators and washing machines now has two thousand of each, the old power supply is never going to do the job.

"Americans Won't Stay"

How do the Islamicist tyrants answer the obvious success and growing appeal of Bush's democracy program?

They kill people, of course.

But they also tell the story, over and over: "America will never stick it out. We'll keep killing Americans till they give up and go away, and then you will answer to us!"

Until they believe that the Islamofascists are never coming into power, many people will remain afraid to commit themselves to democracy.

Under those circumstances, the remarkable thing is how courageously the Shiites of the south have embraced democracy, and how many of them are beginning to trust that we mean what they say.

But against Bush's promises and the actions of our brave and decent soldiers, the tyrants can set the behavior of Bush's political opponents, who are doing their best to promote the propaganda of the tyrants. Every Congressman who says "We must set a timetable for departure" is providing ammunition to the tyrants in their campaign of terror.

Because even more than they fear terrorist bombs, the pro-democracy forces within Iraq and Afghanistan fear American withdrawal. Every speech threatening withdrawal is a bomb going off in Baghdad, killing, not people, but the will to resist the tyrants.

Bin Laden predicted it. The Democratic Party in America is following his script exactly.

Can We Win?

That is certainly not what most who call for withdrawal intend. They see Americans dying and they have no hope of victory. The Iraq War (as they call it) is costing lives and shows no sign of ending. Meanwhile, Iran is getting nuclear weapons, North Korea already has them, Syria and Iran are sponsoring continuing and escalating attacks on Israel -- how can we possibly "win" a war that threatens constantly to widen? Let's cut our losses, retire to our shores, and ...

And will you please stop and think for a moment?

There is no withdrawal to our shores. American prosperity requires free trade throughout most of the world. Free trade has depended for decades on American might. If we withdraw now, we announce to the world that if you just kill enough Americans, the big boys will go home and let you do whatever you want.

Every American in the world then becomes a target. And, because we have announced that we will do nothing to protect them, we will soon be trading only with nations that have enough strength to protect their own shores and borders.

Only ... what nations are those? Not Taiwan. If they saw us abandon Iraq, what conclusion could they reach except this one: They'd better accommodate with China now, when they can still get decent terms, than wait for America to walk away from them the way we walked away from Vietnam and Iraq.

We cannot win by going home. In a short time, "home" would become a very different place, as our own prosperity and safety steadily diminished. Isolationism is a dead end. If we lose our will to protect the things that support our own prosperity, then what can we expect but the end of that prosperity -- and of any vestige of safety, as well?

The frustrating thing is that if people would just look, honestly, at the readily available data from the Muslim world, they would realize that we are winning and that the course President Bush is pursuing is, in fact, the wisest one.

Mistakes

Critics of Bush love to cite the many "mistakes" his administration has made. Most of these "mistakes" are arguable -- are they mistakes at all? -- and when you sum up the others, with any kind of rational understanding of military history, the only possible conclusion is that this is the best-run war in history, with the fewest mistakes. And most of the mistakes we've made are the kind that become clear to morning-after quarterbacks but were difficult to avoid in the fog of war.

Worse yet, Bush's opponents invariably depict these mistakes as being the result of deliberately chosen policies -- a ludicrous charge, but one that is taken seriously by an astonishing number of people who should know better. The game, you see, is blame. It's not enough to say, Bush made a mistake. You have to say, Bush deliberately did it wrong for evil purposes and he must be punished.

But let's accept the fairy tale that this war has been badly run. That still does not change the fact that on all of the biggest points, Bush has made exactly the right choice -- and he has been the only one who has even seen the need to make those choices!

Take North Korea, for instance. Bush recognized instantly that North Korea, with China as its sponsor and protector, is simply beyond the reach of American power at this time. This will not always be true, but his administration is pursuing a careful, quiet, firm policy of diplomatic pressure on China to do what must be done to curb North Korean insanity.

What about Iran? The idea of a ground war in Iran -- especially when we're still fighting in Iraq -- seems impossible.

But it is also probably unnecessary. Because Iran's present government is not just hated, it is also losing its grip on power.

Not on the trappings of power -- they control the "elections" to such a point that nobody can be nominated without the approval of the ayatollahs.

But government power -- even in democracies -- depends absolutely on the will of the people to obey. And when you rule by tyranny and oppression, the obedience of the people comes from the credibility of the threat of violence from the government.

The obvious examples are Red Square in Moscow and Tiananmen Square in Beijing. In Moscow, when Yeltsin and the pro-democracy demonstrators defied the tanks, the Russian Army did not open fire. Why not? Either they refused to obey the order to shoot, or the order was not given -- but if it was not given, it was almost certainly because the tyrants knew that it would not be obeyed.

In other words, the government had lost the ability to inflict deadly force on its own population.

In Tiananmen Square, however, the government gave the order and the troops did fire. As a result, the tyranny continued -- and continues to this day.

Tyrannies only continue in power when they can give the order to kill their own people and be obeyed.

In Iran, there have been several incidents in the past months and years where troops refused to fire on demonstrators. This is huge news (virtually unreported in the West, of course), because of what it means: The ayatollahs' days are numbered.

If President Bush invaded Iran on the ground, bombing Iranian cities and killing Iranian soldiers, he would accomplish only what Hitler did by invading Russia -- uniting an oppressed people in support of a hated tyrant.

But, as was pointed out in a pair of excellent analytical pieces in the most recent Commentary magazine, we don't have to do anything of the kind.

Oil Is Our Weapon, Too

Iran's ace-in-the-hole is not its nuclear weapon -- in their rational moments, even the most rabid of the ayatollahs must understand that if they ever used (or allowed someone else to use) a nuclear weapon, we would destroy them, period. That nuke is meant only as a deterrent -- it can't be used any other way -- and while there's a remote chance that Iran might allow their nukes to be put into the hands of some terrorist group, it would have to be a group they control absolutely. In other words, it would not be Al-Qaeda. (Though Hezbollah would be bad enough.)

The real threat from Iran is their ability to shut down the Persian Gulf and cut off the world's supply of oil from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and the Gulf nations.

That would not really bother the United States -- gas prices would shoot up on the open market, of course, but we can get by on oil provided by non-Gulf sources.

Not so for the rest of the world, though. And Iran is poised, with small boats and thousands of missiles, to shut down all oil production and transportation in the Persian Gulf.

What few seem to realize (according to the article in Commentary) is that Iran is far more dependent on oil revenues than we are on getting their oil. When President Bush determines that he has given the Iranians ample chance to demonstrate to the few rational statesmen left in Europe that there is no possibility of meaningful negotiations with the tyrants of Tehran, his obvious course of action is to shut down Iranian power in the gulf and seize their oil assets.

If we strike first, we can eliminate their ability to do mischief in the gulf quite readily. Their forces, however numerous, are pathetically vulnerable. Unlike their dispersed and shielded nuclear development capability, their military forces in the gulf are in obvious and accessible positions.

So are their own oil assets. They are as dependent on the Gulf to reach the world oil market as any of their neighbors. If we seize their oil platforms, destroy their shipping, and impose an absolute blockade on Iranian shipping in the Gulf -- while eliminating their ability to damage anybody else's shipping -- how long do you think the tyranny would remain in power?

Here's a hint: They'd run out of money very, very quickly.

Here's another hint: Their military is already refusing to obey their most outrageous orders. When the military finds themselves saddled with a government that has brought the destruction of most of their oil revenues, all because of their insane determination to take on the United States, how long before the ayatollahs are arrested and sent home? Or else made irrelevant by placing a "committee of public safety" above them, to veto their decisions and make peace with the West?

Maybe it wouldn't turn out that way. But it's our best chance -- and that's the chance that Bush is obviously preparing for. He has made no attempt to prepare the American people for an invasion of Iran. But he has made it crystal clear that Iranian misbehavior will not be tolerated -- and that regime change is the desired outcome.

If Iran's ayatollahs were toppled, how long would Syria continue to misbehave? Answer: About fifteen minutes. Syria is a poor country. They are only able to make trouble because they have Iran's support.

Shiites and Sunnis

Here's the other asset we have that no one seems to take into account when judging Bush's conduct of the War on Terror: We are really caught up in an ancient civil war between Shiites and Sunnis.

Al-Qaeda on the Sunni side and Iran's ayatollahs on the Shiite side have both been playing the same game all along. They don't seriously think that they can conquer the United States (yet) -- so why have they been provoking us?

Because they're belling the cat. Or poking the bull with sticks. Why? Because they are performing on the stage of world Islam, putting on rival plays. Both plays have the same message: Look, we're the heroes who have God on our side, because we're the ones who have provoked the great Shaitan and gotten away with it!

Iran's Shiites had the upper hand for quite a while, bringing down one U.S. President (Carter) and getting another -- tough-guy Reagan -- to withdraw the Marines from Lebanon and then come begging to Iran's door in his stupid, cowardly arms-for-hostages deal.

Then Al-Qaeda had the upper hand in their play, showing the Muslim world that it was the Sunnis who were blowing up American boats and embassies and, finally, the twin towers in New York City itself.

It's all theatre. It's all an effort by Bin Laden to restore the Caliphate with himself, of course, as Caliph -- spiritual dictator of the Muslim world. The goal? Not just to unite Sunni Islam under a Caliph again, but to then make war on and crush Shiite resistance. That is the prize. Only when it is won would a united Islam be ready to conquer the rest of the world, finishing the task that was left unfinished by previous waves of Muslim conquest.

Meanwhile, Iran's ayatollahs are trying to show the Muslim world that it is they, the Shiite leaders, who have God on their side. That was what the recent campaign in Lebanon was all about -- to steal the glory back from Al-Qaeda.

But wait. It's even more complicated than that. Because there are other divisions within the Muslim world. Iraqi Shiites have no love for, and do not accept the authority of, the Persian clerics. Arabic-speaking Shiites have no desire to have Farsi-speaking Shiites rule over them.

So we have an amazingly convoluted situation in the middle east. Iran and its puppet, Syria, are cooperating support of the Sunni resistance in Iraq. Why? It's not because Syria's rulers are nominally Baathist as Saddam was -- Baathism is dead. Instead, it's the ancient tribalism that is at the fore. Syria's rulers are members of a tiny religious minority that is an offshoot of Shia, and thus they help Iran maintain access to its Shiite allies in Lebanon partly in order to shore up their own position vis-a-vis their own mostly-Sunni population.

So why are these Shiites and crypto-Shiites supporting the Sunnis in Baghdad?

Because anything that keeps America distracted is good for them. And if the Americans do pack up and go home, then the Shiites can claim the victory -- even though it's mostly Sunnis who are blowing themselves up in Israel and Baghdad.

Besides, the Sunni insurgents in Iraq are keeping the Iraqi Shiites off balance. The last thing the Iranian ayatollahs want is for Iraq to become a democratic nation with a Shiite majority, because at that moment it will be the Iraqi Shiite leaders who will have the most credibility as leaders of the Shiite wing of Islam.

So the leadership of the Iraqi Shiites are perceived as rivals by the ayatollahs of Iran. Thus the Iranians support the Iraqi Shiites' enemies -- providing the weapons that are used to murder Shiites in Iraq.

It's an astonishingly twisted game -- and as long as we don't do anything really, really stupid, like withdrawing from Iraq, all these various treacheries will inevitably lead to the fall of the tyrants in Iran, and therefore in Syria, and therefore the taming of Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Bush's game is to keep from letting any of these faction unite, while preparing to deliver strategic blows that can bring down the ayatollahs at relatively little cost.

Every action has repercussions. Just as our withdrawal from Iraq would terrify and silence our allies everywhere, and embolden our enemies, so also would the fall of the ayatollahs -- particularly if it is as the result of an American intervention in the Gulf -- make waves everywhere. Democracy would be perceived as the wave of the future. Our friends in many countries would feel free to speak up for democracy and pro-American policies -- and their enemies would be afraid to silence them.

North Korea might go through a paroxysm of defiance -- but they would still understand the lesson. America will not be bullied by tyrants. We will stand for democracy, destroying our enemies at the "time and place of our choosing." Negotiations with North Korea would instantly take on a very different tone; and China's attitude, too, would become considerably more cooperative with us.

This is the victory that awaits us -- and it remains possible for two reasons only:

1. America's brilliant, brave, and well-trained military, which projects not just power but decency and compassion wherever our soldiers go, and

2. President George W. Bush, who, regardless of his critics and detractors, has steadfastly pursued the only course that holds the hope of victory without plunging us into a worldwide war with a united Islam or isolating America in a world torn by chaos.

Those are the scylla and charybdis that threaten us on either hand. If we do not win this containable war now, following the plan President Bush has set forth, we will surely end up fighting far bloodier wars for the next generation.

And the rhetoric of this election proves that we have precious few politicians in either party who have the brains, will, or courage to be taken seriously as alternatives to George W. Bush in the guidance of our nation through this dangerous, complicated world.

If we, the American people, are stupid enough to give control of either or both houses of Congress to the Democratic Party in this election, we will deserve the world we find ourselves in five years from now.

But Bush, being the wise and moderate politician that he is, may actually be able to continue his foreign policy despite the opposition of a Democratic Congress.

What really scares me is the 2008 election. The Democratic Party is hopeless -- only clowns seem to be able to rise to prominence there these days, while they boot out the only Democrats serious about keeping America's future safe. But the Republicans are almost equally foolish, trying to find somebody who is farther right than Bush -- somebody who will follow the conservative line far better than the moderate Bush has ever attempted -- and somebody who will "kick butt" in foreign policy.

So if we get one of the leading Democrats as our new President in 2009, we'll be on the road to pusillanimous withdrawal and the resulting chaos in the world.

While if we elect any of the Republicans who are extremist enough to please the Hannity wing of the party, our resulting belligerence will likely provoke Islam into unifying behind one of the tyrants, which is every bit as terrifying an outcome.

I hope somebody emerges in one of the parties, at least, who commits himself or herself to continuing Bush's careful, wise, moderate, and so-far-successful policies in the War on Terror.

Meanwhile, we have this election. You have your vote. For the sake of our children's future -- and for the sake of all good people in the world who don't get to vote in the only election that matters to their future, too -- vote for no Congressional candidate who even hints at withdrawing from Iraq or opposing Bush's leadership in the war. And vote for no candidate who will hand control of the House of Representatives to those who are sworn to undo Bush's restrained but steadfast foreign policy in this time of war.

First appeared in print in The Rhinoceros Times, Greensboro, NC

-- November 9, 2006 12:59 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Sorry,

Last post was mine

-- November 9, 2006 1:01 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

We should have been out of there long ago if the Iraqis themselves would have got their stuff together. I'm sure we will stick there for a long time when it comes to bases but for a friendly invited police action, this is actually the Iraqis own problem.

I don't really know what to call it right now.

We invaded, tossed Saddam out, occupied the country while we set up a Government.

We gave the Iraqi flag back, and hauled down our own.

We're no longer occupiers.

Iraqis know that they cant handle it alone , therefore they ask us to stay.

Miss steak (Can I have my miss steak medium rare) number one, bake the cake, until it's finished.

Don't leave a situation to someone that is not grown up enough to handle it.

We just left the car keys to a 10 year old, and gave away the car, so now we have to sit in the passenger seat, until we have a mature driver.

-- November 9, 2006 1:09 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: Sorry man, I read your request for some info from the ground but I've been grounded myself. Ended up with pneumonia and got to take a tour of the local med clinic. I have ot share an off topic story that makes you proud of the soldiers. I met a fairly high ranking officer who had only been in country for a couple days when he got hit by an IED. What makes this story is that he had taken a position that he was supposed to let one of his soldiers take. The price he paid for putting himself in a positions of equality was a ball bearing the size of a quarter in his leg. I wish I could go into the process these guys go through in packing a wound. However, it's quite frankly nasty and extremely painful. The guy refuses to go home because he doesn't want to let his men down and go out like a punk. So he stays and 3 times a day he packs his own wound. When all you hear is how much these men hate being here, isn;t it amazing to hear of someone who has every right to go home and fights to stay?

Now, back on topic... Yeah the dems won. They will take credit for what I believe is building. They may even try to find some way to take credit for things that have already happened and I don't think have been released. I know... I wish I could tell but... Just trust me when I say some pretty big things are about to fall. Something that fell has been recovered... And, yeah, the Iraqis have celebrated Saddam's cenencing AND the Democrats elections with mortar attacks. It's not machine gun fire but it does make a bigger bang - even when they do miss.

Dems taking the credit... Sadly... They will try to say they changed the way this war was being fought. In reality, credit to the men on the ground. Remember that Stryker Brigade that got extended? They, along with the arrival of 1st Cav, will be what changed the course of this war. Expect more knuckes to be used going forward. It's no secret so I'll share what has worked previously:
1)Inhabit the cities and impose civility
2)Offer peace to those who offer peace to you
3)When attacked, respond with extreme force and sympathize later for any innocents caught in the crossfire.
Now, if the democrats reap their glory and stay out of the way, I think out dinar will be in good shape a little sooner than I previously thought.

-- November 9, 2006 2:28 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Nov.11 is Veterans day so don't forget......

If you can read this, thank a teacher.....If you can read it in English...Thank a Veteran!!

-- November 9, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Turtle:

It is good to hear from you. I am glad you are feeling better. Thanks for the encouraging words. I am looking forward to the future of Iraq.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 9, 2006 4:00 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Rice Says Iraq Oil Money to Be Split as Country Remains Unified November 4, 2006 - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice predicted Iraqis will divide control of the country's oil revenue along regional lines while retaining a central government to maintain political unity.
"They are not going to have such a centralized system with the use of that resource, and that's probably a good thing because we do know also that a centralized system around oil tends to produce corruption," Rice said today in an interview with "Political Capital With Al Hunt" to air this weekend on Bloomberg Television.
Iraqis "are likely to come up with a system that may be superior to many that are used in the Middle East," Rice said at the State Department in Washington.
Rice's comments came as the Iraqi parliament is weighing a law to regulate the country's oil and gas industry, which she said would serve as a "source of political unity." A provision of Iraq's constitution calls for sharing oil revenue "compatible with the demographic distribution" of the country.
The oil strategy outlined by Rice suggests a change in U.S. policy, according to Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East analyst for the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service in Washington. Up until now, "the U.S. policy has been for a strong unified central government," Katzman said. "These remarks would appear to lean more toward those advocating regional autonomy."
While Rice encouraged oil-money sharing, she rejected calls by some U.S. politicians for Iraq to be partitioned along sectarian lines. "Most of them are not Iraqis who are saying that," Rice said.

Any commment?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 9, 2006 4:18 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Will Iraq repeat Russia’s oil mistakes? October 2006 - Iraqi oil Minister Hussein Shahristani announced last week that he aimed to sign oil production contracts with foreign companies by the end of next year. Notably, the announcement was made in Australia - like most of the significant statements of Iraqi oil policy, it was made to non-Iraqi ears.
The same was true of the confirmation last month of the form of such contracts. Speaking to the conference of the International Compact for Iraq, a meeting of international donors in Abu Dhabi, Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih, who heads the committee drafting a new oil law, announced that production sharing agreements (PSA) would be used - the type of contract favoured by the companies themselves.
Putting Mr Salih's comments into context, the US government representative to those talks threatened that any future economic assistance to Iraq would be conditional on economic reforms - the priority among which was the passing of an acceptable oil law.
But this announcement was made with unfortunate timing. Just a week later exactly that same structure came under renewed fire in Russia for the unfair deal it gave the state.
A dispute flared up when the Russian government announced that it was suspending an environmental permit for the Sakhalin-2 oil and gas project, which is currently under construction.
The project, on Sakhalin Island in Russia’s Far East, is being developed by a consortium led by European oil giant Shell, together with two Japanese companies. While the Sakhalin-2 project does indeed suffer from serious environmental problems, most analysts believed that Russia's real motivation was to change the unfavourable economic terms.
As Jarmo Kotilaine, a Russia expert for the Control Risks consultancy commented, "In Russia, environmental audits are often politically motivated. What the Russian government wants is a renegotiation of the PSA." This was echoed by Adam Landes, an oil and gas analyst at Moscow-based Renaissance Capital, who said, "It seems to be a brutal way of renegotiating previous deals that were quite humiliating for Russia."
The Sakhalin-2 contract was signed in 1994, while Russia was undergoing rapid economic liberalisation, following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Ever since then, the contract has been criticised for its economic terms. In January 2005, the Russian audit chamber warned that, "We have drawn a conclusion that PSA terms for Sakhalin-2 are decidedly not beneficial for Russia." Indeed, so unfair were the terms that leading energy economist Ian Rutledge called it a "production non-sharing agreement".
But it was in July 2005, when the costs of the project nearly doubled from $12 billion to $22 billion, that the dispute really intensified. The Sakhalin-2 PSA is structured in such a way that the Russian state receives nothing (apart from a small royalty) until both the costs and a specified profit for Shell have been deducted. The result is that Shell's profits are guaranteed, while the state effectively carries all of the risk of cost over-runs.
Ironically, two of the main arguments commonly given for oil to be developed by foreign companies are that it reduces the state's risk and that only multinational companies have the capacity to manage major projects - something Shell proved by both the cost over-runs and the environmental damage that it was not up to.
However, despite all these problems with the contract Russia does not have the right to revoke, amend or renegotiate it. Even worse, the contract effectively lasts for an indefinite period of time, with an initial period of 25 years, followed by a right for the company to renew it (without consent required by the Russian state) for further periods of five years in perpetuity.
It is for these reasons that Russia was forced to revoke the environmental permit in order to halt the project.
Russia has only signed three production sharing agreements, all in the early to mid-1990s. All three were controversial and no more have been signed since. In fact, the other two have also both come under pressure following the Sakhalin-2 dispute.
The parallels with Iraq are striking. All three of Russia’s PSA contracts were signed while the country was in a weak position and going through rapid change. It was only later that it became clear what the country had given up.
But Russia is not the only country that is reconsidering the terms of foreign investment. Bolivia famously nationalised its gas production earlier this year. Algeria and Indonesia have both revised the terms of future oil contracts, and Venezuela has done so for its existing contracts. Thus Iraq - despite being a founder of OPEC, and a leader in taking national control of its oil industry through Law 80 of 1961 - seems to now be bucking the international trend.
So why would Iraq pursue such a policy?
A clue lies in the fact that both the deputy prime minister's announcement that PSAs would be used and the oil minister's statement that they could be signed by the end of next year were made to foreign audiences, not within Iraq. It seems it is outside interests that are driving Iraqi oil policy.
During the drafting of the oil law over the last five months, three consultations have taken place - none of them with Iraqis. The US government and the multinational oil companies were presented the draft law for their comments in July. Last month, the International Monetary Fund joined this list, examining the draft oil law in its quarterly review of the Iraqi government's compliance with its economic conditions.
But the Iraqi people have not been consulted, nor even has the Iraqi parliament. Indeed, Iraqi civil society groups and parliamentarians who have asked to see the draft have been told that it does not exist. Instead it will be presented to the parliament in December, to be pushed through (the government intends) as a fait accompli.
Russia realised the mistakes it made by signing PSA contracts only when it was too late. It remains to be seen whether Iraq follows the same course.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 9, 2006 4:23 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

Chris,
The female suicide bomber gets her virginity back, and gets to be one of the 72.

-- November 9, 2006 5:39 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Carole (If your still around), Carl, Roger, Sara and others. I posted awhile back the statement "Only by PRIDE cometh contention". Can't you all see the meaning of these words? Hope Carole comes back!

-- November 9, 2006 7:29 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Valerio,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Maybe she's Borg - 7 of 72. Maybe they're all Borg
Resistance is fuetal. You will be assimilated - Sound familiar?

In other news Broccoli Spears is divorcing Sniff Goggie doo. I saw that one coming

Marriage cannot succeed when people are first and foremost in love with themselves

Only being willing to take advice from modonna doesn't really help either

-- November 9, 2006 7:30 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Willie:
Give us your version... of Pride Cometh Contention...as I am sure we all have our own version and they may not be the same as you are attempting to communicate..

For the record..never wanted to see carole leave...just start comprehending what she read and quit making assumations of people...
It was individuals with like thought patterns who started the Crusades, instigated the Salem Witch Horrors, joined priest in the dungeons every early mornings to torture the devil out of poor encapsulated souls, that were being protected by their version of christianity...and I assure you..I would be be the first put on Carole's rack, while she sharpened her special christianity tools of conversion...she may not save my life..but at least she savaged by soul..

Apparently, Carole is very educated if you keyed only on Book Knowledge... But I have learned from life experiences Book Knowledge alone will only carry you so far...

If I had a choice between Common Sense or Book Knowlege, I would take Common Sense every time. It gives an individual the ability to deseminate through the clutter of life, which is vital.

As for me, Carole is welcome back anytime she wishes to return..I guess she went looking for the Rock she thought Roger was hiding under...

-- November 9, 2006 10:14 PM ∞

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5th daughter wrote:

Hi Everyone,
I may be a sit in for my mother.he's not hiding or looking under a rock....whenshe says she has other interests, you have no idea what that means.

Her Christmas projects are many, one of them is making blankets and quilts for orphanges in Romania. She says she is weeks behind.

Common sense is her specialty. And, as her 5th daughter, I can tell you she is the worlds best detective. Can never be fooled by anyone. Especially phonies, she hunts them out.
Sometimes this makes people uncomfortable, but all you have to do is stop faking it and she will be your best friend.
I know I am a little prejudiced, but her education is not what has made her wise, it is her incredible life's experiences. She can ,and has , had tea with royalty in the morning and dinner with a beggar on skid row for dinner. As kids, we did our time in the soup kitchens all over Los Angeles.
She is a firecracker at times, I will admit. But if you light her fuse you get more than likely what you deserved.

Anyway, I just hate to see some here talk about a person they don't really know, just because she was gutsy enough to call a spade a spade.And hey, it was hard enough to get her to buy some Dinar, much less expect her to study about them. Although she has hounded us to learn all we can. With all that she and dad have, and it is more than most , things just don't mean alot to her. She is a people person.

5th daughter

-- November 9, 2006 11:48 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Turtle: I always look forward to your posts. Thanks. You confirm what everyone suspects: This war will be won on the ground, by the fine men and women who serve, not by blow-hard, militarily illiterate CNN commentators, with perfectly coiffed hair, shallow perceptions, coupled with liberal bias.

-- November 9, 2006 11:55 PM ∞

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5th daughter wrote:

Oh by the way, When I told my mother that I was going to start watching this site, she told me to cover my eyes when I got to Rogers messages. When I asked her why? She said because there is nothing more discusting than to watch a man mentally masturbate!
THAT'S MY MOM!

-- November 10, 2006 12:04 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

A lot of good reading this time, and I especially extend a thanks to Turtle and his fellow soldiers over there.

Turtle,

Bummer you got the pneumonia, you seem to be up and about now, hope you're recovering well. The soldier you were referring to that got hurt, because he , as in a command position, took the place of one of his soldiers, is a heartwarming and good tale that tells about the best in men.

However if he is packing his wound himself, it might be an idea that he have a medic looking at it on occasion. Wish him well from me, and I'm absolutely sure I can talk for all of the board, when I ask you to wish him well from all of us.

I'm fully aware that you have slow and expensive time on your pjuter, so even if I really would like to have a long and extensive "novel" from you, you're fine with a shorter story.

Turtle, I wouldn't worry too much if the Dems are taking any credit for what is about to come in Iraq, we know that there are a lot of programs in effect, laws passed, and oil ready to be pumped. Thus getting the Dinar up in the range we want it, and at the same time getting Iraq into a more prosperous place.

You seem to hint of things to come, I can assume it is some military action. Your lips are sealed, for reasons understood, but you make me curious. Perhaps you are hinting on the decisive battle. Ok, hope this is it.

If there is anything you want me, or us to do, let us know.

Salute to you and your buddies.

Chris and Rob N,

Both good postings. The US seem to have position itself in the upcoming energy crisis. India and China is getting more and more thirsty, and other countries are getting out of their 3rd world status quick, and it can be assumed that the whole Asia will soon be an oil drinking giant.

I do however believe that the positioning of the US right on the middle of the oil, was more of a luck of the Irish, in the war on terrorism. Afghanistan have no oil, and that was an obvious target.

It touches on what kind of war this is. Well the overall operation I can agree could be called "the War on Terror", but the actual operation in Iraq, may have a lot of elements in it, but it's more of a police action in order to try to get the situation calm (insurgency Shiia against Sunni, is not a conflict that is a war on terrorism, per see, but is just a bad rap, we got in the aftermath of the invasion.) Sunni and Shiia, questions have to be solved by themselves, but as long as they don't see eye to eye with democratic ways, I guess we have to stay and meet them using their rules. Force.

This particular situation is the one most confusing for the onlooker.

We're suppose to do the war on terror, but were looking at a military operation in Iraq where we have to hold the hands of a newborn nation, that's walking around with wobbly legs.

The price to pay for getting rid of Saddam, a true tyrant and terrorist supporter.

So we absolutely did the right, and only decent thing to do, but payed the price with a prolonged nation building, with a lot of internal conflict popping up as a result, making it hard to see as a war on terror.

Rob N, touched on a very interesting aspect of oil contracts. Russia once in the grips of the Soviets, have generations of people that are not educated in how free trade is working. Russia a place where the aparatnik, is slow to disassemble, is a place that in all essential is runned more or less in the way it was runned during the Communist era.

With the hopes of the civilian rule after the Communist fading, it has become more and more clear that Russia is still into a lot of unresolved internal issues, and is heading in a dictatorial direction.

Russia was gung ho for the first period after the fall of Communism, but reversed slowly into the direction it had come from. Contracts written in the beginning was seen as investments, good for the economy and good for the country.

However, old habits are slow to remove. Just by the fact that money are made, and the old idea about ownership as something unsocial, the Russian oil industry have runned into legal problems, as the Russians are renegging on many oil contracts.

Western thinking in property rights, is still based on old Socialistic idea about ownership.

Russia would not openly admit or propose Communism, but the rhetoric is pretty much in line with "what is best for the people of Russia".

To transform this fear of re negotiations to Iraq is not a good comparison.

Nothing is for sure, but Venezuelan, Bolivian and Russian approaches is pure Socialistic considerations. Iraqis was living under a kind of, (sort of) Stalinistic Communism under Saddam Hussein, but the following of Socialism as in Russia , Venezuela or Bolivia, is a complete different ballgame.

The only experience the Iraqis had was pure dictatorship, and had very little or no Socialistic or Communistic influence , schooling or political following. During the elections in Iraq, I was not not aware of any influential political party that walks under the Communistic or Socialistic banner.

Oil production and it's facilities have been socialized in the past from non socialistic countries. Saudi Arabia did it long ago, and Iran did it after their religious revolution in the late 70's. That was example of dictatorial countries.

The more Iraq can develop into a modern western integrated society, that will rule by law, and democracy, the more secure it's agreements are.

The more international a country is, the more it is part of the whole picture, the countries with a local dictator, wanting to change the world is the ones to watch out for.

If a dictatorial strongman takes over in Iraq, it might be an issue to look after, but with our long term presence in the desert bases, I doubt that an Iranian type overthrow is likely.

And in the remote case that it would be a possibility, both you and me would have cashed in the Dinars anyway long time since.

-- November 10, 2006 12:08 AM ∞

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5th daughter wrote:

I forgot to say my mom is Carole

-- November 10, 2006 12:08 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

5th Daughter: Say hi to Mom1. She was wrong about one thing: She said she believed she could never be an equal contributor to this forum. Nonsense.

As any parent will attest, no one could raise 5 daughters without getting a hell of a lot of life experience. And that's really what makes a person worth listening to.

Everyone on this board had their asses wiped by their mothers at one time.

-- November 10, 2006 12:17 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

5th daughter,

Mom says, you do.

-- November 10, 2006 12:19 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Been reading IMF,s report and looking at the statistics for the latest month, and it seems that the Iraqis are taking big steps to try to handle the inflation, The inflation curve was a straight line up and peaked around 70%, but dropped sharply the last month down to 50% level.

As I can see the high number of Dollars sold on the auction lately is in direct correlation of the backing of the Dinar, and inflation.

Still it (the Dinar) is undervalued, resulting in low buying power outside the state of Iraq, making goods scarce, and thus high in value.

The problem with backing an undervalued currency while at the same time try to get a handle on the inflation, means that they have to run the economy, the way you would run a car, with you brakes on. This holds true only with an artificially pegged (or close regulated, almost pegged currency like the Dinar).

By selling Dollars, the Iraqis get their Dinars in range for their peg, but if it is loosing in value in the pegged window given, you have to sell more Dollars, getting more of the Dinars backed with Dollars in circulation.

Alternatively they could just go straight on the market and buy goods with their Dollars instead, but that would weaken the Dinar, and from a state viewpoint, would not be recommended.

This higher volume in trading, selling off the Dollars, is a "fix" for the current Dinar set up, and when the Dinar is on the open market, it will adjust itself.

Shows to me that they are trying, and seems like, succeeding in their contra inflation effort, but all in all, they are running a beast that is jury rigged, and need to get their currency on the market quick in order to really fix their situation.

Then again, nothing that makes financial sense have ever come through so far when it comes to Iraq, so I don't hold my breath.

-- November 10, 2006 1:36 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Hey! 5th Daughter!
It has been my experience, that sometimes perceive realty or perception ends up being false information, upon which reality had nothing to do with...
The end result..... the wrong answer

-- November 10, 2006 1:43 AM ∞

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5th daughter wrote:

Carl,

I agree with you. And I thank you for being able to admit you were wrong. That takes courage.I will tell her

-- November 10, 2006 9:57 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

I stand encouraged by Turtle's post. It seems as though something may be in the works. I am in agreement it will involve both the stryker brigade and 1st Cav.

Robert Gates appears to be a good replacement for Donald Rumsfeld. I am still skeptical of a major reval between now and Christmas.

I read a article yesterday on www.iraqieconomy.org concerning Iraq's electrical grid. The meat of the article emphasizes Iraqs' lack of progress in acheiving an establishment of a infastructure that can support Iraq's electrical needs. In fact, Iraq has been struggling since the 1960's with this problem. Their current 10 yr plan, "makes no proper evaluation of the present status of the industry and its proposals for the future can only be described, at best, as superficial."

I continue to believe as long as the insurgency continues to promote chaos and without basic services a reval is out of the question for some period of time. In my estimation, if the U.S. micro-managed the dispersment of reconstruction money. I think some of these outstanding issues could have been resolved in a more efficient manner. As investors we may have had our much anticipated reval sooner.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 10, 2006 9:58 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

5th Daughter:

I hope you know your mother Carole is welcomed to post here. With the diverse personalities that make up our little community there are differences of ideology and theology. Yet, we have one purpose for being here, to discuss all aspects of the Dinar and witness its reval.

It is not my purpose to ciriticize anyone, but from my observation the resistence she experienced from both Roger and Carl contributed to her leaving the board. From what I have read of your Mom's postings she appeared to be hurt by some of their responses.

Frankly, It appears to me, though she may have definite opinions; she does not like confrontation.
Your mom should not allow anyone to decide for her whether she should post or not post or whether she should leave the group.

I would offer one bit of encouragement. Please help your mother to become more involved in the day to day observation of her investment in the Dinar. Again, in my opinion she should not invest in a vehichle just because her friends, family, or investment banker has done so. Whether a profit is gained or a loss occurs she should be fully educated as to why she invested and what events have happened to influence its outcomes.

Now that you have read my 2 cents, we can now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 10, 2006 10:13 AM ∞

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Voice from the past wrote:

A few months ago the Pentagon released a video of a group of top Taliban officials(approx. 190 of them) packed together so tightly that the whole group fit into the Predator drone's gun-sight targeting box.

After all, the Taliban are the declared enemy of the US, and they were targeted in a war zone. But all the film showed was the target. The Predator left them untouched.

One would ask--what in the world was the problem? Was the drone unarmed? Had it already expended its ordinance? No. The cadre of top Taliban officails were attending a funeral.

The US rules of engagement. inexplicitly, declare funerals off limits to attack. I wish I were kidding.

"during the observation of the group over a significant period of time, it was determined that the group was located on the grounds of a cemetery and were likely conducting a funeral for Taliban insurgents killed in a coalition operation nearby earlier in the day" acoalition spokesman told reproters.

"A decision was made not to strike this group of insurgents at that specific location and time".

Even though US military officials in Afghanistan had positively identified those gathered as Taliban fighters, including some fo the high-level Taliban leaders, they told several news orgizaitions they "have no regrets" in refusing to authorize the atttack.

The brillant minds, who have established the US rules of engagement command that every airstrike must first be approved by the regional Combined Air Operations Center. Depending on the value of the target, the decision keeps getting bumped upstairs until a general officer gives the go ahead. BY which time, the target is no longer there. But in this case, when the decision not to fire was handed down, all 190 Tali fighters were still lined up in fomation. How stupid is this?

It isn't like the enemy would hold his fire out of respect for a fallen enemy. IN fact funeral processions are among the Islamo-facists favorite targets( ie. a Tali sucide bomber attacked the funeral of provincial Gov. Abdul Hakim Taniwal. They killed six and wounded 25. Most of the victims were civilians( The Taliban evidently wanted to kill the gov. twice).

Even more stupid than the policy, is telling the enemy that funeral processions are immune from attack. It is like giving them a "get out of danger free" card. In the event a threat is spotted, all they need to do is scramble to the nearest cemetery.

Not to worry--it gets dumber!
In Congress, Republican lawmakers, fearing for their seats, broke ranks with the administration and with Colin Powell leading the charge, voted essentially to grant the enemy combatants the protections afforded uniformed combatants under the Geneva Conventions.

But wait! There's more! Sens. John Warner, Lindsey Graham and JOhn Mc Cain explained that failling to afford the enemy combatants full Geneva protection could "adversely affect enemies' treatment of captured US service members."

Dah!! There are no US service members being held by the enemy. NOt because none have been captured, but because those who have been captured have been murdered.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Colin Powell regurgitate the words:" The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis for the fight against terrorism"

If the murders of 3,000 innocent civilians are an insufficient moral basis for the fight against terrorism, then there is no moral basis for any military action. America might as well surrender and allow world opinion to dictate the terms of US security. Am I missing something?

Such political cowardice must have had Osama splitting his sides with laughter. He has always made it clear that he considers the US to be governed by craven cowards. He can now add the modifier"incredibly stupid"for emphasis.

The only ones who appear to be happier than he and Mullah Omar, are the liberals to whom anything was fair game to overthrow the Republican control in COngress. The death of young Americans in harm's way is of even less impact.

They aren't the ones who face the families of the dead, the commander in chief is. They aren't the ones responsible for winning the war, the commander in chief is.

The more dead servicemen that comehome in flag-draped coffins, the better it is for them politically. However, you can bet your life we will be out of there before Hillary takes the Presidency, which I now believe is our fate.

The more they can emasculate our forces in the field, the more they can weaken our resolve, the better it is for them politically.

Graham, Mc Cain, Warner and Powell aren't Democrats. They are Republicans. It just goes to show that there is more than enough liberal stupdiity to go around.

When will we realize that the rules only apply to us? They clearly don't apply to them. How can we ever win a war without recognizing the true nature of the enemy?

-- November 10, 2006 11:42 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Hi all.

Just jumped in to say I've not been around for a while and not really getting time to keep up with the forum for the time being. I've moved out of my place and in with my girlfriend and I suddenly seem to have a list of chores longer than the great wall of china.

I will duck in from time to time and catch up when I can between washing up and scrubbing the bath. Women. Don't you just love them?

Hopefully will get a laptop before too much longer and keep in touch from her place.

All the best for now.

I miss you guys.

-- November 10, 2006 12:24 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Rob N: Actually there are a bunch of men of 4th ID who have had their hands tied for much of their mission. They are very short time from going home and begging for and opportunity to get some strong retribution for their fallen brothers. It has already started and if they get their way, there will be more to follow. I can't explain but don't look for one ultimate battle yet. I still think it is coming but it could get squelched by Maliki. Have no doubt, all eyes in Baghdad are on Mahdi.

Thanks for the well wishes by the way. I'm still down but I was allowed to go home last night because my fever had broken and seemed under control. Well, the fever came back today and if I cannot get it under control they will probably lock me down when I go in for my follow up tommorrow. Ahhh Well... Noone said this garbage was supposed to be easy.

-- November 10, 2006 12:39 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Carl, it is very simple. All contention is based on pride. Take a close look at the posts where there was contention between members of this forum and you will see ego. That's why Paul said he had to die daily. Couldn't be any more simple than that, unless you try to make it so. I'll go with the scriptures every time.

-- November 10, 2006 7:48 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

So, it's Veteran's Day, (Remembrance Day in Canada tomorow). I see Canadian veterans around the city, selling poppies. Lest we forget.

Then I thought about the Democratic win in the American elections. I know there were a lot of issues, like too much spending by Republicans, and corruption, but the war was a big issue too, influencing the vote.

Did the Republicans lose a lot of seats because of the war? It seems like they did.

I looked up the number of American casualties in World War II. It was 400,000. I thought of this, in comparison with the war in Iraq. Now America is a country that just passed 300 million, and much bigger in population than half a century ago. A lot of Americans are getting worried that at 3,000, American casualties are too high, in Iraq. Time to go home, many people say....By comparison, there were more casualties in many battles, in small towns in France, in WWII.

That got me seriously wondering.....

Can a superpower that squeals at the thought of losing only 3000 soldiers keep it's status as a superpower, in the coming century, when the enemy has men who are willing to drive airplanes into buildings, taking their own lives, just to kill the enemy?

I'm not trying to minimize the loss of these brave soldiers. I have tremendous respect for the American military. I'm just saying the enemy is very very nasty, and it will take a lot to totally defeat Islamic fascism. Getting antsy after losing only 3000 men is not a good sign.

I come from a small prairie town, of about 3000. The town was so small, I couldn't go anywhere in town without running into someone I knew. Three thousand is not a lot of people, especially out of 300 million.

My guess is, this enemy is so nasty, America will have to change to survive.

And I am not blaming American soldiers. Surveys have consistenly shown a very large majority of them support the war, are confident they can win, and think the war is a good and just war. They are in the middle of the fight, facing danger every day, they know they will eventually win, and they don't want to leave the fight. Meanwhile, wussy voters, on their comfortable couches, watching TV, in their nice suburbs, far from the real danger, think things are getting too risky. Very odd.

My guess is, America will have to change a lot, culturally, if they are to survive this next century. They will have to be far more willing to take the gloves off. The fastest growing demographic in the world are Muslim. Not all, but a very significant minority of Muslims have a fanaticism, ingrained from their religion, that makes them willing to die.

I caught news of the latest message from Al Queda in Iraq. They say they will not stop till they take out the White House.

Human nature does not change. The last century saw conflicts were tens of millions died in horrific wars. Will this century be any different? We'll see, but I doubt it.

To win, America will have to stop being squeamish, about death. To me, the Democrats are not really the problem. The problem is deeper than that. It's America itself. Some parts of American culture are weak, self-absorbed, irreligious. In other words, too liberal.

Boiling it down, I think America is too "nice". Not all of America, just the liberal part. I think America will eventually come to it's senses, and be united in the war on terrorism. Just not yet. This election made that clear.

America won the Cold War, because Democrats and Republicans were united in their goals. This war against the Islamofascists won't be won till Democrats and Republicans are united on this issue.

Iraq is only round one. Expect twelve rounds.

Regardless of how this war goes, the world will still need oil. My dinars will be worth a lot of money someday. I don't even think war can stop that.

I'll still get my house in Hawaii.

A day like today does make me pause. I saw an old veteran at the hardware store, bought a poppy off him, wondered to myself what his memories of the war were, shook his hand, and said, "Thanks"

Lest we forget

-- November 10, 2006 11:13 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

The Country has spoken. They do not want this war in Iraq. I consider the war to have been a scam from the beginning. We went in under the banner of WMD's and when there were none to be found, we changed the "battle cry" to free Iraq or something.

I was totally supportive of our efforts in Afganistan as we had proof of terrorism there. Terrorism was never mentioned in Iraq until after we had invaded and they began to assemble from all over the world.

I consider our purpose in Iraq to be "Mission Impossible" as we have no idea who the enemy is until we dodge a bullet or see a vehicle blown up. There was a fella named Rudolph who bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham and the resources of the USA searched for him for over four years. How in the hell do we hope to find a terrorist in Iraq?

When almost 70% of the Country says we do not like or want something, it is time to consider a different something. My beloved Republican Party has been desimated by the American people and this steadfast "Stay the Course" policy is most of the reason.

I have said from the beginning that we needed to wage war on terrorism and I saw no terrorism in Iraq at the time we went in. Iraq has been a distraction and I take offense at the idea if
Pres Bush makes a bad decision and commits our troops to war, that we have to disregard everything that we believe and totally support his decision by supporting our troops. The troops do not deserve to be put in unpopular position.

I am not happy with Pres Bush disregarding the will of the American people and continuing a policy that has ultimately become a catastophy for the Republican Party.

-- November 10, 2006 11:41 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

The Country has spoken. They do not want this war in Iraq. I consider the war to have been a scam from the beginning. We went in under the banner of WMD's and when there were none to be found, we changed the "battle cry" to free Iraq or something.

I was totally supportive of our efforts in Afganistan as we had proof of terrorism there. Terrorism was never mentioned in Iraq until after we had invaded and they began to assemble from all over the world.

I consider our purpose in Iraq to be "Mission Impossible" as we have no idea who the enemy is until we dodge a bullet or see a vehicle blown up. There was a fella named Rudolph who bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham and the resources of the USA searched for him for over four years. How in the hell do we hope to find a terrorist in Iraq?

When almost 70% of the Country says we do not like or want something, it is time to consider a different something. My beloved Republican Party has been desimated by the American people and this steadfast "Stay the Course" policy is most of the reason.

I have said from the beginning that we needed to wage war on terrorism and I saw no terrorism in Iraq at the time we went in. Iraq has been a distraction and I take offense at the idea if
Pres Bush makes a bad decision and commits our troops to war, that we have to disregard everything that we believe and totally support his decision by supporting our troops. The troops do not deserve to be put in unpopular position.

I am not happy with Pres Bush disregarding the will of the American people and continuing a policy that has ultimately become a catastophy for the Republican Party.

-- November 10, 2006 11:42 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil: good post

I agree that fighting terrorism should be the number one priority. But just how do you do that? Terrorists belong to secretive organizations, highly decentralized, that are difficult to penetrate, because very few Americans belong to the right religious and ethnic groups involved. Terrorism is intimitely tied to religious fanaticism, which is deeply ingrained in the Muslim religion, it's history, and it's very basic theolgy. The Qu'aran itself tells believers to conduct holy war on non-Muslims, and to kill them if they don't convert.

That has been the history of Muslim extremism for over a thousand years. Terrorism is just a continuation of that historical trend. Terrorism is not an aberation from Islam. It is exactly a natural outgrowth from a religious set of beliefs that are holy to over a billion people. How do you fight that?

For a brief historical period, the West achieved technological dominance over the Muslim world, so they were no serious threat to us. Other than the last few hundred years, Islam was a threat to Europeans continuously, since it's inception.

Petro-dollars give Muslim countries lots of money to resume the fight for dominance, and they are doing it with a vengeance. They are definitely a threat now. Many prominent Muslim leaders have said flat out they want to destroy America and dominate Europe. How much clearer a warning do you want?

I remember a survey done of Muslims worldwide. They were asked, do you support terrorism? I was somewhat relieved at first to learn that ninety percent of Muslims do not support terrorism. Then I realized that there were over a billion Muslims worldwide, so that meant a hundred million people wanted to see me dead. And they are willing to support terrorism as a tool in that war. Not a comforting thought. How do you fight that?

President Bush has decided that the way to fight this threat is to aggressively push democratic values around the world. Yes, the weapons of mass destruction may or may not have been there. The whole thing could have been cooked up as a pretext to invade, no doubt about it. I will never know for sure. But I never thought that's why the US went into Iraq in the first place. This is a complex war, involving a lot of trends. It is not a simple war.

Now, most people in Iraq want democracy. They want prosperity. They want peace. Then they want the Americans to leave. It's only a radical minority that opposes all this. So, while Iraqis definitely don't want the Americans occupying their country, they do agree with the long term goals of peace and democracy. So even Muslims agree with most Western values. This is not really an imposition of ideas that Muslims oppose, except to the sonnofabitch religious fanatics.

The American people may be against this war. In the end, they will have to decide who they should believe, and what the threats are. I agree with that. But if the American people believe Muslim extremists are not a threat, then Americans are dead wrong.

I think one way you fight terrorism is to give Muslims a better model of a good society. Muslim countries are generally horrible and abusive places. Iraq certainly was, under Saddam. People need hope. It's a long shot, but if America is willing to pay the price, in blood, and stick with it, in twenty years Iraq can be a peaceful, democratic, wealthy society that would be a great place to live.

Hey, if you can turn Nazi Germany to the peace loving country it is now, anything's possible.

Other Muslims would look at American success in Iraq and say, moderate Islam is compatible with the modern world. We can be wealthy, free, peaceful, secure, and Muslim. Then, in time, this new model of a normal, functioning society can spread, and give hope to people. And in doing so, Muslims would change, and be less willing to support terrorism.

Libya used to support terrorism. They were also aggressively pursuing nuclear weapons. Then, the leader of Libya saw the former leader of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, on CNN, being pulled out of a hole in the ground, by American forces. That had an effect on Libyan policy. They no longer support terrorism. They no longer want to acquire nuclear weapons. Lesson learned. Terrorism stopped, in that country.

One thing I know, stength, not weakness will defeat terrorism. The one billion Muslims in the world are watching the events in Iraq. They are asking questions: Are the Americans strong? Will they run? Where is the future going in the Muslim world? Will Bush's audacious plan actually work? People, by nature, tend to side with the strong, not with the weak. They also adhere to the ideas of the strong. It's human nature. If the Muslim radicals, the terrorist, prove to be stronger than the Americans, this lesson will not be lossed on one billion Muslims. They will see which way the future is going and side with the strong horse, the one with guts, the Muslim radicals who support terrorism. That means accepting, or quietly acquiecing to, the warped ideas of the radicals.

And instead of people who believe in freedom and human rights dominating in that end of the world, people who believe in terrorism and only one religion will dominate.

That's not the kind of world I want to live in.

I respectfully disagree with your approach.

-- November 11, 2006 1:42 AM ∞

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voice fromthe past wrote:

Tim Bitts

You make several good points.
Do you not wonder how the American people could be so sqeemish about losing 3000 men ( in war), and yet not even notice or care that in New York City alone, there were over 2000 homicides in 2005. Why is Hilary and SHumar not willing to address their own war in their own state ( and its failure).

If this country needs new blood anywhere it is in the ranks of Republican strategists.

Americans are too comfortable right now. I believe it is going to take 2 "pearl harbors" to wake up the American people.

For people, or nations to refute or ignore or just plain deny that this war is not rooted in religion, is ludicrious.

The Pope ( leader of another 3 billion people) quoted a 14th century emperor who criticized Islam for its practice of forced conversions, launched a wave of voilent protests worldwide from Muslims.

Members of a Palestinian terrorist group kidnapped 2 Fox news journalists:Centanni and his camer man Wilig. They were put in front of a camera with big knives facing each of them, and given 2 choices. They could be filmed bring converted to Islam, or they could be filmed being beheaded. Both reporters chose option one. They were then filmed wearing Islamic robes and read scripts from which they announced they had become observant Muslims and asked BUsh and Blair to do likewise. Since then they have not remissed on their commitment to Allah.
If there is one thing that the West is failing on it is that it continues to try to convince itself that Islam is just another religion,like Unitarians, Buddhists, or Christians.

Jesus didn't tell people to convert to HIm at gunpoint. COmpare that to Islam's version of the Great Commission where Mohammed said to his apostles:"I was ordered to fight all men until they say there is no god but Allah'.

Jesus sent His followers out to live according to His example, which He said would draw men to what they could clearly see to be the truth.
Mohammed told his followers to fight all men until they convert to Islam's version of truth. Osamma quoted Islam's great commission during the post 9/11 Afghan campaign: "I was ordered to fight all men until they say'there is o god but Allah'."

Part of the reason that we are in for a generatinal war is that America has not recognized the enemy. America still believes that Osama"S Islam is a distortion of what is, at its heart, a religion of peace.

Centanni and Wilig saw the religion of peace in action. Mohammed himself gave the great commission to Islam to fight all men until they do what Centanni and Wilig did.

And until we see, as they did, the big knife laying off camera, America will fight this war as if it were only against al-Qaeda. And Osama will contiue to franchise out his jihad without anybody knowing who the enemy is until it is too late. And this war goes on for a genteration or longer.

-- November 11, 2006 3:08 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Neill: How many chemical warheads have to be found before is is declared that WMDs were found? It is no longer a question of whether or not checmical weapons were found. What just occured to me is that you have to convince the Americans that it was a threat to them. In essence, prove that there was a weapon, a desire to use, AND a delivery system.

I think it was 2 years ago that we announced a couple hundred chemical warheads found. The news says ohhh but they were only 75 percent strong and we don't even know if they would have detonated. When one hit the IZ, the news says ohhhh it was so old it did not even explode. So lets say more were found, maybe a significant amount more, what benefit does it give the government to report it? The media will shoot holes in it unless the goverment can first, in a darn sneaky way, build its case that Saddam had a desire and delivery system to hit the US. Has any one seen that case being built lately? I wonder if there is a clause in Saddam's appeal hearing that says he'll get life in a comfy prison in the US instead of death if he will tell all? Then I have to wonder if he or his cousin Chemical Ali was the one who actually knew where they all are.

Why hasn't the enemy used them? Now put yourself in Saddam's shoes. Where would you hide those weapons? (Let's assume reports of other countries are not true.) Possibly just about anywhere. The next question is, how many people would you tell? You no longer truly know who's an ally and who's an enemy. So he has a limited number of people he can trust to hide those weapons but he has 2 years to do so. If he hides them in the country, it would likely be small stashes and few people who know where. If he hides them on military bases, many know where they are but his trusted few can keep an eye on them. Enter the US military. In less than a month we held all of his military bases. In less than a year we killed or captured almost all of the people he trusted. Thus, any stockpiles hidden in the countryside could be lost even to their own people. Any stockpiles hidden on military bases either have not been found or have not been released to the media. Oh yes, and that does not include any that we suspected and intentionally blew up so that they could not be used on our soldiers. Strange concept but bare with me. If we had all the knowledge we claimed, why would it not be part of our strategy to destroy that weapon before it could kill thousands of our soldiers? Of course, we invaded in March which was still rainy season so our evidence would have been washed away. So back to the beginning and trying to find those stashes.

Now, that's all theory. The reality is that Saddam had them. Unless you consider the small chemical artillery and mortar rounds non-WMD because they can only kill a few hundred people a piece. Also, keep in mind, I'm on Taji where Chemical Ali had his headquarters and there are tons of places on this base that never got searched. Fighting a war became more important. However, don't believe everything you hear when people tell you that the search has stopped. If we didn't how could we ever find anything that about 200 people (as I recall) given 1 year (realistically less)could not find in an entire country while worrying about snipers, ambushes, and mortars? Oh, most of those 200 were searching files and unformatting harddrives trying to find information that would tell them WHERE the weapons were hidden. All they found were conflicting records of weapons exist and don't exist which lead the media to report that Saddam may have been duped into believing they had WMDs and were close to a nuclear warhead that could be mounted onto a SCUD missile. (Yeah, the same Saddam who murdered people for far less than lying about something like this.)

Bottom line, if your only gripe is that we came under false pretense, rest at ease because we did not. If you are pissed because this war was not initiated to near perfection but then conducted poorly... Well, now I cannot argue that one. Now, I will say that I have not heard anyone here blaming Rumsfeld, but I may have heard complaints against some of the General Officers who seem to prefer rewording reports from the field to make things look better. Thus, the true image of the battlefield has not always made it as far as Casey. Anyway, back to point. We invaded under the pretense of WMDs and a connection to Al-Qaeda. (From here I go on theory, no proof.) Saddam wanted to add Nuclear weapons to his arsenal but had to purchase the materials because any manufacturing centers would be noticed immidiately. He wanted to strike the US and had, according to recent news reports, planned to do so using terrorist groups. Al-Qaeda had struck the US numerous times in recent years and had forces in Africa. He had channels to funnel illegal "Oil for food funds" through Africa - we know this but don't know how much was channeled. Two enemys appear to have found common ground in a desire to make a large attack on the US. Here's what we know, we know Saddam had chemical weapons, we know he had the illegal money going to Africa, we know he had contact with Al-Qaeda that went contrary to past hatred, and we know that he threatened the US just prior to 9-11. With that in mind, are you still so sure the invasion was wrong? If so, is it because the media has not told you chemical weapons were not found or would that even matter?

-- November 11, 2006 4:42 AM ∞

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CYMRU001 wrote:

I have just found this article. It is a couple of years old, but makes interesting reading.

The real reasons Bush went to war

WMD was the rationale for invading Iraq. But what was really driving the US were fears over oil and the future of the dollar

John Chapman
Wednesday July 28, 2004
The Guardian

There were only two credible reasons for invading Iraq: control over oil and preservation of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Yet the government has kept silent on these factors, instead treating us to the intriguing distractions of the Hutton and Butler reports.
Butler's overall finding of a "group think" failure was pure charity. Absurdities like the 45-minute claim were adopted by high-level officials and ministers because those concerned recognised the substantial reason for war - oil. WMD provided only the bureaucratic argument: the real reason was that Iraq was swimming in oil.

Some may still believe the eve-of-war contention by Donald Rumsfeld that "We won't take forces and go around the world and try to take other people's oil ... That's not how democracies operate." Maybe others will go along with Blair's post-war contention: "There is no way whatsoever, if oil were the issue, that it would not have been infinitely easier to cut a deal with Saddam."
But senior civil servants are not so naive. On the eve of the Butler report, I attended the 40th anniversary of the Mandarins cricket club. I was taken aside by a knighted civil servant to discuss my contention in a Guardian article earlier this year that Sir Humphrey was no longer independent. I had then attacked the deceits in the WMD report, and this impressive official and I discussed the geopolitical issues of Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and US unwillingness to build nuclear power stations and curb petrol consumption, rather than go to war.

Saddam controlled a country at the centre of the Gulf, a region with a quarter of world oil production in 2003, and containing more than 60% of the world's known reserves. With 115bn barrels of oil reserves, and perhaps as much again in the 90% of the country not yet explored, Iraq has capacity second only to Saudi Arabia. The US, in contrast, is the world's largest net importer of oil. Last year the US Department of Energy forecast that imports will cover 70% of domestic demand by 2025.

By invading Iraq, Bush has taken over the Iraqi oil fields, and persuaded the UN to lift production limits imposed after the Kuwait war. Production may rise to 3m barrels a day by year end, about double 2002 levels. More oil should bring down Opec-led prices, and if Iraqi oil production rose to 6m barrels a day, Bush could even attack the Opec oil-pricing cartel.

Control over Iraqi oil should improve security of supplies to the US, and possibly the UK, with the development and exploration contracts between Saddam and China, France, India, Indonesia and Russia being set aside in favour of US and possibly British companies. And a US military presence in Iraq is an insurance policy against any extremists in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Overseeing Iraqi oil supplies, and maybe soon supplies from other Gulf countries, would enable the US to use oil as power. In 1990, the then oil man, Dick Cheney, wrote that: "Whoever controls the flow of Persian Gulf oil has a stranglehold not only on our economy but also on the other countries of the world as well."

In the 70s, the US agreed with Saudi Arabia that Opec oil should be traded in dollars. American governments have since been able to print dollars to cover huge trading deficits, with the further benefit of those dollars being placed in the US money markets. In return, the US allowed the Opec countries to operate a production and pricing cartel.

Over the past 15 years, the overall US deficit with the rest of the world has risen to $2,700bn - an abuse of its privileged currency position. Although about 80% of foreign exchange and half of world trade is in dollars, the euro provides a realistic alternative. Euro countries also have a bigger share of world trade, and of trade with Opec countries, than the US.

In 1999, Iran mooted pricing its oil in euros, and in late 2000 Saddam made the switch for Iraqi oil. In early 2002 Bush placed Iran and Iraq in the axis of evil. If the other Opec countries had followed Saddam's move to euros, the consequences for Bush could have been huge. Worldwide switches out of the dollar, on top of the already huge deficit, would have led to a plummeting dollar, a runaway from US markets and dramatic upheavals in the US.

Bush had many reasons to invade Iraq, but why did Blair join him? He might have squared his conscience by looking at UK oil prospects. In 1968, when North Sea oil was in its infancy, as private secretary to the minister of power I wrote a report on oil policy, advocating changes like the setting up of a British national oil company (as was done). My proposals found little favour with the BP/Shell-supporting officials, but Richard Marsh, the then minister, pressed them and the petroleum division was expanded into an operations division and a planning division.

Sadly, when I was promoted out of private office the free-trading petroleum officials conspired to block my posting to the planning division, where I would surely have advocated a prudent exploitation of North Sea resources to reduce our dependence on the likes of Iraq. UK North Sea oil output peaked in 1999, and has since fallen by one-sixth. Exports now barely cover imports, and we shall shortly be a net oil importer. Supporting Bush might have been justified on geo-strategic grounds.

Oil and the dollar were the real reasons for the attack on Iraq, with WMD as the public reason now exposed as woefully inadequate. Should we now look at Bush and Blair as brilliant strategists whose actions will improve the security of our oil supplies, or as international conmen? Should we support them if they sweep into Iran and perhaps Saudi Arabia, or should there be a regime change in the UK and US instead?

If the latter, we should follow that up by adopting the pious aims of UN oversight of world oil exploitation within a world energy plan, and the replacement of the dollar with a new reserve currency based on a basket of national currencies.

· John Chapman is a former assistant secretary in the civil service, in which he served from 1963-96

-- November 11, 2006 6:31 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Neil:
Read your post, and it appears the MSM did their job well..
As far as the Republican Party is concern...I have probably voted Republican more that Democratic in my life...Most of the time probably split ticket...since I vote for the person and not the party line...Too many scum bags hang on to tail coats...as we have seen from the corruption found on both sides of the isle..So in my mind, what happen to the republican party is simply the result of the republican party's previous actions over a lot of issues while in office...not just Iraq.

No WMD Huh?

Saddam had several types of gas, many categories of Biological weapons, and we knew that Saddam was after the Nuclear Warhead...

How did we know for certain? Simple! WEEEEEEE ( the old US of A ) GAVE IT TOO HIM WHEN HE WAS FIGHTING IRAN... He could not produce records of destroying it all, he refused to produce records, and if your read anything about Saddam's ex-Iraqi General and the book he wrote, he told you where a lot was taken just before we invaded..

Sometimes percieved reality is better that reality....that is why a lot of men run their mouths a lot, just to convince other men, their pocket rocket has a longer shaft, huge fuel bags, a larger warhead, and packs more punch to the thrust.....

Saddam WANTED YOU TO BELIEVE HE HAD ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND MORE...HE CONVINCED THE ENTIRE INTELLIGENCE FIELD OF MANY NATIONS that he still had them...Why would he do that? In the middle east FEAR is Power,Terror is surpreme and Respected...THUS THE OTHER SURROUNDING COUNTRIES FEARED HIM..President Clinton used that to his advantage back in the 90's when some top Iraqi Generals tried to hand over Saddam to us...but Clinton refused...Why? because we promised the Oil producing countries if they would keep us in oil at moderade prices, we would keep Saddam in line..thus Clinton utilized the FEAR FACTOR to our advantage...

The problem was sADDAM carried it to far and did too good of a job at convincing everyone.....

Recently, the NYTimes, who has been a strong promoter that George Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction..issued an article critizing the Bush Administration of releasing classified papers. The Classified papers, indicated Saddam had complete plans of how to make a nuclear warhead. He was actively purchasing the parts, when we invaded...
WHAT THE TIMES DID NOT REALIZE UNTIL AFTER THEY PRINTED IT...AND THE OTHER MSM PUKES, would not publish....

THEY THEMSELVES JUST CONFIRMED THAT GEORGE BUSH WAS CORRECT IN INVADING IRAG AND REMOVING SADDAM...

There are documentations after documentations, of world scumbags going to Iraq for training,funds, medical attention, etc...Saddam, would send 25K to each family who had a member of their family become a sucide mobile IED, throughout the world.

THE United Nations WAS and STILL IS corrupt...They are Worthless..It should have been the United Nations going in force after Saddam, but they would not....WHY?...Most of the countries including Russia, France,Germany and other worthless piece of shit dictatorships had key personnel on Saddam's oil for food dole...the truth is the UN would have never gone after Saddam and would have let him continue to the point of getting a nuclear weapon, just as they are going to do with IRAN and already North Korea...

The real problem is the average American Citizens no longer have the stomach or backbone to fight...We are benefiting from a generation who protested during the Vietnaim War, never served a day of military in their life, have no regard for the pledge to the Flag or USA Government..want the borders to be seamless, etc..

This midterm election was a political win for the middle east terroist....why do you think the International leaque of Islam endorsed the democratic ticket the day before the election...? Because they viewed them as weak and would make decision to weaken america even further..

The MSM would not publish that in their papers or News programs...

The MSM will put on the front page...two more soldiers,or marines killed today in Iraq...they do this daily and keep a running tally so all can see...

Why don't they also publish right beside it....the USA's homicide rate...it will far exceed anything you have seen in Iraq....close to 16,000 last year..(approx 43 a day)

Well! the democrats now have the power to change some things...but I predict they are already realizing, it is much easier to critize that to actually come up with a plan ...I am not sure which end they are scratching at this moment in puzzlement...

-- November 11, 2006 7:34 AM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Neil:

With all of the think tanks in the Democrat party trying for several years, to get Bush for treason by lying about the situation preceding the attack on Iraqi, they have come up with nothing.

Except to distinguish that when the same intelligence information was also given
to several others, IT WAS BUSH THAT LIED and the others were just mistaken.

A few of a long list of "OTHERS",(the list of Democratic lunimares)

Jay Rockefeller, John Kerry, Sandy Berger, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle, AL Gore, Madeline Albright,Bill Clinton....

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's WMD program" Bill Clinton.

" Iraq is a long way from here, but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face" Madeline Albright

"He will use ( Sadaam) WMD again, as he has ten times since 1983..." Sandy Berger( Clinton National Security Advisor)

"We urge you , after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions
( Including, if appropriate, air and missle strikes on suspect Iraq sites)to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its WMD programs"...letter to Pres. Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle,John Kerry and others 10/9/98

" Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of WMD technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection preocess"...Rep. Nanci Pelosi

Now here are the 16 words most quoted that were made by Pres. Bush that are being used to accuse him of lying and treason.

" The British has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa"

Again, Bush guilty of treason, and the others
" mistaken."

Neil, can you cite even one instance in the last 5 years where a Democrat( other than JOe Liberman) has had even a faint praise for anything that the Bush Adminsitration has said or done? I doubt it but I would be glad to hear it if you have it.

I think rather that the American People have been duped, and worse yet they don't even care.

And so we now find our country in a predicament that I have no idea how it will resolve itself without some serious consequeces to our security,economy, and not even to mention our traditional values( which is an entirely different topic that could take up volumes of discussion).

If we lived on some remote corner of the world, it would be intersting to sit back and watch the dominoes fall or the future unfold. BUT whatever happens will affect every single one of us here is one significant way or another.

Also, If CMYRU001 's discussion about the real reason we are at war were totally correct, given the utter hate the Demos have for the Bush Adminsitration, they would have never given the go ahead for the war or the massive funding given to keep it going.

And if his argument is in fact totally relevant, I think the logic would lean more to the side of " a brilliant responsible strategy" rather than TREASON. Which, I believe is the road this Congress is headed down in 2007 for Bush and this country.

While I have no trust for the Demos, it would be so great if they would just be satisfied to have won back the power and put some great and responsible minds to work to move this country in a new solid direction, and leave their subversive agenda behind, we might stand a chance.

But I doubt it, because the real underlying agenda is to kill the last breaths of conservatism in this country forever and once and for all.

-- November 11, 2006 9:31 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Here's a few more countries whose intelligence services publically stated they thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction: Britain, France, Russia. Does anyone really think Russia and France's governments would publically lie to save George Bush's neck?

-- November 11, 2006 9:53 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Money talks.

Following up on what Carl was saying: If you look at who held the oilfield development contracts in Iraq, before the Americans went in, the big players were France and Russia. So if Saddam got kicked out, they would lose valuable oil deals. Now France and Russia have permanent seats on the UN security counsel. If the United States brought a motion to the Security Counsel, what would Russia or France do? Vote against their own interests?

The motion to invade, if passed, would cost their economies a heck of a lot of money. Of course they wouldn't support it.

Canada is just as bad. Most of our prime ministers, for the past 30 years, have worked for a chap named Paul Demarais. Mr. Demarais is a Quebec-based billionaire who throws a lot of money around, come election time in Canada. His company, Power Corporation, is a major shareholder in En Fin Oil, the major French oil player in Iraq, who were given one quarter of all oil field contracts in Iraq that had been put up for bid, in Saddam's rule, during the 1990s.

Now it turns out that our last prime minister, Jean Chretien, who was Canadian prime minister when the Americans went into Iraq, is an old buddy of Paul Demarais. In fact they are such old buddies that Paul Demarais's son, Paul Demarais Jr., is married to Jean Chretien's daughter.

So just before the American invasion of Iraq, the Canadian government had to take a public position on the war. The prime minister, Jean Chretien, who had made most of his money working for Paul Demarais, and whose daughter was married to a man with a tremendous amount of money invested in a French company with a lot of oil contracts in Iraq, had to decide Canada's position on the war.

If he supported the war, he would support an action that would cost his family a lot of money. Naturally he came out against the war. Surrprise, surrprise!

Sounds like an episode of that old TV soap opera from the 1980s, Dallas, doesn't it? Money and sex and oil and family and power and rivalry.

And the prime minister who succeeded Mr. Chretien? It was Mr. Paul Martin, who was another old buddy of Mr. Demarais, going way back. Mr. Martin made his entire 30 million dollar fortune due to Mr. Paul Demarais's "benevolence".

This story, all these connections were uncovered by a small, independent, Western Canadian oil magazine, read widely by Canadian oil people. There are good reasons it was not covered much by large Canadian media, in discussing motives for political action:

Guess who is a major stockholder in many major Canadian news outlets? Fill in the blanks: P_ul De_m__a_s.

Money talks. Never forget the golden rule of politics: Whoever has the gold, rules!

-- November 11, 2006 10:29 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: So why doesn't the MSM publicize loudly the number of insurgents the Americans kill each day? My understanding is the Americans are winning every battle. I guess, the truth is, my impression anyway, is that with a few exceptions, I think most of the MSM want America to lose, and be humiliated. This is all done under the guise of supposedly "objective journalism". They would tell you, it's not professional to seem to support the government. This of course, is obvious nonsense. Most of the MSM want the American public to get sick of the war, they want to turn people off from the goals of the war, most of them hate President Bush, they want America to lose and be humiliated, and they wrap those disgusting motives up in the nonsense about "objective journalism."
So I guess the reason the MSM won't publicise how many insurgents and terrorists the American Army kills, is that this would not help their goal of getting American to lose, by way of turning the public against the war effort.

-- November 11, 2006 10:43 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Cymru0001: thanks for the article from The Guardian. good reading.

Summary of article: America went to war against Iraq to secure a supply of oil, and to ensure the dominance of the American dollar, globally, as the top currency.

I sort of agree with the article, in terms of looking at American motivations for the war. I think it confirms, what I have said and suspected all along: this is a complex war, with many causes.

Many people on the left say: "No War for Oil!"

I say, I don't want to pay ten bucks a gallon, to fill up my truck, at the service station.

So if Saddam has us by the shorthairs, over a barrel of oil, as it were, and if American Army invaded Iraq partly to secure oil for a healthy American economy in the future, I say, go for it.

If the motives for the war were stablilizing the US dollar as the dominant global currency, I say, go for it.

It seems to be working. The American economy is in great shape.

Every other country looks after it's own interests. Why shouldn't the Americans?

And if you throw in stablizing oil supply for a successful American economy, I say, go for it.

Over eighty percent of Canadian trade is with the Americans. Trade with the US is a billion dollars a day, across the Canadian-American border, so, as a Canadian, I want a healthy American economy, so I can have a healthy Canadian economy.

War for oil? I say: Go for it!

Besides, it's not like the Americans are going to really steal the oil. They will pay a pretty penny to the Iraqi government.

Like I said before, this is a complex war. Stabilizing American oil supplies, as well as the US dollar, which affect the American economy, may have been the primary motive, for this war. Throw in taking on Islamic radicals, promoting democracy, and a few other things, and you may have a true picture of the war.

I know the article was a bit of a criticism of America in the sense that it said, look, America is pursuing naked and raw self interests,..... as if those things, in of themselves, were bad..... But I was always of the impression that those things were a given, anyway, and as a minor league capitalist myself, I support those motives anyway. If America is pursuing this war, in large part, out of naked self interest, the stability and pre-eminance of the American dollar as the dominant world currency, I say, go for it.

Besides, that motivation and action proves President Bush is a lot smarter than his critics give him credit for.

-- November 11, 2006 11:59 AM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Tim,

The final missing piece to all of this ( Demos and MSM wanting us to lose ) is...WHY?

Bill O'Reilley, in his book Culture Warrior is bent on believing it is the Secular Progressive movement in this country that ultimaletly leads to globalization and world power is sought in the areas of One world government, currency, religion etc....

I can see the SP's move to eliminate conservatism and put in the communist social model here in the US( and I beleieve they are winning that battle). I just can't see the globalization part, when the Muslims with their growing nuclear might and their thousand year ambition to convert the world to Islam would fit the scheme.

Any thoughts?

-- November 11, 2006 12:03 PM ∞

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a voice from the past wrote:

Bill Gertz,a tightly connected Washington Times Reporter has recently reported that there is alot of activity going on regarding the crazy Kim Jong iL and his nuclear ongoing threats.

He quotes Pentagon officials as well as senior defense officials.

He summarizes that basd on these and other sources, there are war planning efforts that have been underway for months to remove the N.Korean nuclear program.

Along side of these plans was the BUsh Admin. recent affirmed committment to both S. Korea and Japan that it would use Nuclear weapons to deter N. Korea, now considered an unoffical nuclear weapon state.

Gertz quoted a second senior defense official as stating"We will resort to whatever force levels we need to have to defend the Republic of Korea. That nuclear detterence is in place."

Other official sources say this includes bombs and air-launcehd missles stored at Guam, that could be delivered by B-52 or B-2 bombers. NIne US nuclear-missle subs regularly deploy to Asian waters from Washington state.

Officials said that one military option calls for teams of Navy Seals or other special operation commandos to conduct covert raids on Yongbyon"s plutonium-reprocessing facility.

A second option calls for strikes by precision-guided Tomahawk missles on the reprocessing plant from sus or ships. The plan calls for adjinct strikes from various sides to minimize any radioactive particles being carried into the air.

The destruction of this processing site would take N. Korea 10 years to rebuild if they were foolish enough to desire to do that.

General Pace stated that the 200,000 troops inthe gulf have not diminished our efforts of fighting any other type of war. He says he has 2 million troops on standby( draft coming).

Pace's comments as wellas the LEAKED war plans could be a loud and final warning to Kim Jong iL.

Pace warned that the war against terriorism in Iraq and Afghanistan have drained the military of its precision weaponry, which means there would be alot more collateral damage from unguided gravity bombs.

Sanctions on N.Korea are minimumally effective, since they are completely isolated already. Because of it's isolation there is no way of affecting a change in their regime other than to do away with the regime altogether.

Since 1948 Kim and his father have bedded down for the future of N.Korea for another generation or more to come.

N. Korea has a million men,ten thousand tanks and more than ten thousand artillery peices. So Conventional warfare would be disasterous.I doubt if this is even being considered as even the remotest option.

When, how or even whether we deal with this problem will give clear messages to Iran and their sick ambitions.

At any rate this kind of fanaticism, will UNLIKELY be deterred by more meaningless Security Council resolutions.

I don't know about you, but I am planning to get on the next mission to the moon!

Anybody else want to volunteer?

-- November 11, 2006 12:45 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Voice from the past: you might be on to something. Secular progressives, which to me are just liberals in a hurry, are suckers, in my opinion.

These people believe the future is in a secular America, freed from the "shackles" of religion. They also think the future of the world is much along the same lines. I think they are very misguided. Religion has been, and will continue to be, a great force in the world, for good or for ill.

Having lost their own religious faith, and being in positions of prominance, they believe that the future is just an attempt to catch up to their lofty vision of reality. I don't think it's going to work.

These people don't know it, but they are the unwitting dupes of the Islamofascists. These people believe America is the great evil in the world. They hate their own culture. Not being religious themselves, they cannot see the power of religion to do evil, as in the case of a resurgent Islam, with a streak of violence in it.

Secularist Progressives are also multi-cultural relativists. They believe all cultures are equally valid, and that all morality is equally valid.

That's why these people are so easily fooled by the Islamofacsists. They have lost their sense of real morality, they don't understand the power of religion, except to criticise the historical religon of their own culture, and they are incredibly naive about the depravity contained in other cultures, especially Islamic ones.

That's why they don't understand they are being played by the Islamofascists. That's why Al Queda congratulated the Democrats on their electoral win. Al Queda knows the Democats are their dupes in the West.

Since there is no starting point for Progressive Secularists, no basic axiom of morality in the universe, like God, then morality for them is just a purely human invention.

The problem with that viewpoint was well put by Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, in his classic novel, "Crime and Punishment", who said: "Without God, all things are possible."

And not just good things...

That means all sorts of evil, beyond the imagination of most people, are possible, without God. To those people who say, great crimes were committed in the name of religion, I say, true, but far greater crimes are committed without religion.

So that is the path secular progressives and liberals want us to walk down. We walk down that path to our doom, as a species.

Having made up their own personal morality, based not on good, but on what they personally believe is best for the world, they want to impose that morality on everyone else.

It won't work.

So, as to your basic question, of Why? Why would these people do as they do? Why do Secular Progressives think and act as they do? They think it is for the good of humanity. They think it will help bring about world peace. They are well intentioned, if completely misguided. For reasons far too complex to get into here, one world government would never work, except as a complete and barbaric failure, ushering in a new Dark Age of Barbarism, and maybe the end of the world.

Eliminating conservatism, and the political power of religious minded Americans fits in with these goals.

I seem to recall something from the past, from twenty five years ago, when I studied the Book of Revalation, about one world government, and the mark of the beast.........hmmmm......

Oh, well, good thing I'll be rich in a few years. Able to enjoy a martini, watching the sunset in Hawaii.

Just watchin the world go round. Oh, well, back to finishing my laundry.....

-- November 11, 2006 1:35 PM ∞

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Agnostic wrote:

Some interesting conversation here concerning nothing on the Dinar. I see Sara responded to my post and I appreciate that. However, it was either countered by GOD SAID OR MAN SAID. That is my point exactly. Then we have Canadians explaining the politics of the US? Please don't get me wrong as I respect all views, but I worked in Canada in the early 90's and the view of the US was not that good. And based on the previous PM their was no love there as well? When is the last time the Canadian Gov. supported the US? Seriously, they know as well as Mexico that we will not let anything happen to them as it is to close to the US. So the talk of the Brave soldiers of Canada serving in the UN bothers me a little bit when compared to the US troops and what we have endured due to the lack of competence of the other Governments. Ranks right up there with the French offer to help now. I am a vet and I try hard to not get to emotional, but when I think back to what my family and myself contributed to Europe I get a little miffed. Now as far as the Religion thing. I can appreciate all of your views, my own mother has the same, but there was no convincing info to cause me to change my mind. Nor do I think that could happen via this board. That kind of life changing event must happen face to face.

Now as far as the Dinar, if this happens tomorrow, and I think it could, how many of you would still be here? What I mean to say is how many of you will come back to here for the fellowship after this hits?

-- November 11, 2006 7:46 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Agnostic: you make some good points. Past Canadian governments have sometimes not had favourable views of the US. ou are right about that. Thankfully that has changed lately. The current Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, who I put up signs for during the last election here, is very pro-American.

Recently, there was a plot uncovered in Canada, where terrorists were planning to blow up our Parliament and kidnap the prime minister and cut his head off. So Canada understands what is going on quite well.

Canadians are helping the US fight the war on terror in Afghanistan, and every now and then I see on the news where some Canadian is brought back home in a body bag. Canadians are responsible for security in the Khandihar region.

Canada is fighting in Afghanistan under NATO, which the States is a leading member of, not the UN.

I think Canada is very lucky to have the United States as a neighbor, for security and many other reasons. I think you are right about that.

The Americans did a lot to help Europe. I think you are right about that, too. They should be grateful. Canada also fought in WWII, and was a contributing member of NATO, since the beginning, standing up, with the Americans, against the Russians for fifty years.

Best of luck to you.

-- November 11, 2006 8:28 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Tim, Turtle, Carl, Voice of the Past:

I appreciate your rebuttal and respect the position that you embrace but, again, the American people have spoken-they do not want the war in Iraq.

Some of you have alluded to some devious reasons which motivated the US to enter Iraq such as mainly oil. I wish we had leaders who were calculating enough to devise a plan which would stabilize our oil needs for the future, but I believe that we consider ourselves to be above anything like that.

Tim: you are a great contributor to this site and your posts have improved my opinion of Canadians. I may disagree with you on some issues but I have great respect for you. You are a good Ambassador for Canada.

Carole: Come on back, at least occasionally. Your thoughts and ideas and philosophies were very good and most of us really appreciated you.

I am a war-hawk who believes that war is for killing and winning and taking down whoever is opposing you. When you put a different face on war such as winning the hearts and minds of your enemy-you lose me. I may be from a by-gone era but, to me, was is a cruel, savage operation and there is nothing nice and benevolent to it.

Again, those of you who disagree with me-I will read and respect your post and if it makes sense to me, I will consider changing my view.

-- November 11, 2006 11:54 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Also, Canada helped the USA to release American citizens during the Iranian hostage
ordeal. I will always remember this, and be gratiful to Canada!

-- November 12, 2006 12:53 AM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Neil

You sound like you have had some experience at war. How far Back? WWII or Korea?

I so whole heartedly agree with you. But unfortunately the current day trend does not approach war from a hawk position--and that is why we don't win. You put it so very well.

Agnostic:

Following the Dinar is like watching paint dry. I know eventually we will see something concrete to give our attention to, but right now, all seems to be the same old recycled info, rumors, and speculation. Very boring, to me anyway. However, by virtue of the currency being attached to the middle east part of the world opens up arenas for discussion that seem endless.

The last rumor that I heard gave mention of a RV happening between Nov.11-14.

So this rumor has about 48 more hours of life before we start all over again, waiting for another rumor.

In the meantime, paint a room in your house and sit back and watch the paint dry. I guarantee you, there will more satisfcation, and a sense of accomplishment. And your wife/husband will think you are a hero :}

-- November 12, 2006 3:21 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Hi all, I'm back from Thailand, got plenty of rest, and came back to a Hornets' nest. . .to things I don't indulge in Politics and Religion. . .so y'all have at it. . lol. .

Okie: I guess I owe you an apology, I was only able to set up a Canadian Club and Bombay Sapphire, and one Cohiba Shrine on your piece of property, however, I did leave a large yellow lemon for the Canadian Club, and a large bottle of green olives for the Bombay. . and oh yea, I watered your plants. . .shame on you. . PH

-- November 12, 2006 4:39 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Hi all, I'm back from Thailand, got plenty of rest, and came back to a Hornets' nest. . .to things I don't indulge in Politics and Religion. . .so y'all have at it. . lol. .

Okie: I guess I owe you an apology, I was only able to set up a Canadian Club and Bombay Sapphire, and one Cohiba Shrine on your piece of property, however, I did leave a large yellow lemon for the Canadian Club, and a large bottle of green olives for the Bombay. . and oh yea, I watered your plants. . .shame on you. . PH

-- November 12, 2006 4:40 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Neil!
I agree with you on the how to win the war part...but I believe we have too many Cindy Sheehans to accomplish that...

Our fellow American Citizens...Say we don't want the War...Well! I really don't believe we have a choice...Oh! Yes! we have the choice to redraw...run...say please can't we all get along !....but what do you do when the other side says things like...

We will not stop until the White House is blown up...

We encourage our men to attack Americans and America's interest throughout the world..

Death to America....Death to the infidels...

What part of any statement is not understandable to our citizens...

If 9-11 does not get their attention...what will it take...

That group has so much hate for us and what we stand for...they intend to wipe us out...how many times does someone have to tell you what they are going to do...before it sinks in...at what time do you drop the negoiation for deplomacy sake...and start taking care of business...George Bush took up the banner and started forward...the present political climate we all know...

I predict same individuals will start blaming the Democrates for letting down the security of America, once we are attacked, and we have a major loss of life.... just as they attacked the republican administration for being too aggressive on terror...

I believe I saw a very good clue as to the condition of american thought the other day on a news channel...

The reporter went out into New York, and started asking the simple question of the predestrians..

WHO IS NANCY PELOSI?

Now this was the day after the election.... I don't believe any got the answer right...and most were like a deer in on coming headlights...

The facts are the facts...since 9-11, America has not been attacked on our own soil...the economy is running at peak...unemployment is lower than it has ever been...the stock market has reached record high's..

Politician talk is just that...Political Wind...heard but hardly any benefit to anyone...

-- November 12, 2006 6:37 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Agnostic,

I expect to still be here because I think the RV will be a series of steps and I won't be exchanging all my Dinar on the first RV.

If I understand the tax laws then capital gains tax drops to zero in 2008 so I will be looking for tax talk and more RV rumors from this site.

-- November 12, 2006 8:27 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Panhandler.....

Welcome back from the land of smiles! Even though you couldn't find the Jim Beam, your choice of beverages was great. I haven't been to Patong for over a year and I'm long overdue. The Thai women are truly rare and I could live there for the rest of my life. Hope the Dinar goes up soon....I need to be on the beach. Thanks for watering my plants!!

-- November 12, 2006 11:07 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Why the U.S. entered Iraq is quite irrelevant now. In my opinion, we invaded because of several reasons including revenge on Saddam for launching those Scud missles at Israel in the first gulf war. Our invasion I believe was motivated also by the vast amount of oil in the region. I also believe the U.S. did see Saddam as a threat to his own people and the rest of the world.

I think the good news is Iraq is not Vietnam. We left Veitnam too early. We did not have a chance to pump money into the country to rebuild it. If we had stayed in Vietnam the countires composing South East Asia would have been an economic powerhouse, possibly rivaling China. Neil, Richard M. Nixon listened to the will of the anti-war sentitment and because of this Vietnam contiues to be in shambles today. U.S. investment in the region is slim to none.

In contrast, I believe U.S. investment in Iraq will result in a prosperous and peaceful country. The Democrats having control of congress really does not change the logistics of Iraq. Face it, we are there for at least two more years. We will continue to stay the course.

Concerning the much anticipated RV. Well, I can only prognosticate sometime in 2008. Now Neil, your critical of the U.S./Iraqi policy. Have you invested in Dinars? If you have invested in the Dinar then it is not logical why you appear to want the U.S. fail in Iraq.

All of those who have expressed discontent with Bush and have been critical of this Iraqi policy will have to recount their statements. I believe History will proove President Bush correct.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 12, 2006 11:25 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

I cannot confirm but I got this from a source that I trust. He said this came from a translator, linguist, or someone of that nature. Enjoy.

Having monitored the Iraqi and Arab countries' TV channels and radio
regarding the Saddam verdict over the course of the day, here are some
of the highlights that are of note:

o Despite his show of defiance in court, after leaving the
courtroom, Saddam broke down crying and saying that "the Iraqis love me!
It is the Americans who have done this to me!"

o Many of the Satellite TV stations, Iraqi and regional, showed
celebrations by Kurds, Shia and even Sunni areas, in response to today's
verdict and sentencing.

o One young man ecstatically said he wanted to run to the
American soldiers and hug them and thank them, but was afraid they might
shoot him because of the security alert. So he said to the cameraman
"instead, let me publicly say on this channel that I thank the American
soldiers for all their help - without them, we never would have seen
this day where Saddam finally faced justice."

o Some few channels, chief among them Al-Jazeera, Salah Adin
(where Tikrit is), and Zwraa (which is owned by parliament member Mishan
Jabouri, a former intelligence officer under Saddam), were openly
questioning if the Iraqi people really wanted Saddam to hang, and
questioning if this is really the will and justice of the Iraqi people.

o In response to these questions, the other Iraqi stations
broadcast live footage of a gathering of some 80 old Iraqi women who
dancing and cheering the verdict. These women are all mothers whose
sons had been murdered and executed at Saddam's orders.

o Jordan and Palestine are seeing public demonstrations against
the verdict, where the demonstrators claim that Saddam helped them
against the Israelis and was a good man. One man even said "he helped
us and who cares what he did to the Iraqis - they are his people and he
can do whatever he wants to them."

o Similar demonstrations have been occurring in Tikrit (Saddam's
hometown) and other Sunni areas that are home to Saddam loyalists and
those who were the elite under the former regime.

o An elderly Shia man in Sadr City, with tears running down his
face, fervently thanked the American people for their sacrifices of
their sons and daughters, and the American blood given to ensure that
the Iraqis could see this day of justice.

o Bushra (?) the Lebanese lawyer for Saddam stated that the
Iraqis and Americans are making a big mistake, because "the Resistance"
will attack them everywhere inside and outside Iraq.

o Al-Jazeera TV compared the US to Saddam, saying that the
Americans killed some 600,000 Iraqi civilians, so who are they to judge
Saddam when he only killed 5 million of his own people, many of who were
traitors.

o Many Iraqis are upset and hurt that some Iraqi TV Stations like
Salah Adin (note above) were mourning and condemning the verdict,
especially since Saddam killed so many Iraqis and destroyed so many
families. They are calling for the Parliament to sanction these
stations.

All in all, the general sentiment of the Iraqis is one of relief, and
thanks and appreciation to the Americans for all they have done and all
they have sacrificed to help the Iraqi people and make this historic day
come to be. Please don't hesitate to let those who do not have access
to Iraqi & Arab news, such as fellow soldiers, contractors, and your
loved ones know how the Iraqi people feel today.

-- November 12, 2006 2:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Okie, Panhandler,

Watch out for those Tsunamis, stay in a hotel high over the beach. When the Jim Bean and Bombay Sapphire, sets in, it's like the doctor giving morphine to the patient, and ask him if it is ok to amputate both legs. With a smile, he will answer, "just take them all, as long as you give me more morphine."

I have been in Thailand, only in a short passing though, the people there is very friendly, and the whole place is very vibrant.

Agree, the Dinar needs to get off the harbor mud, it's been sitting like that old WW2 flattop, stuck in the mud for too long.

ABOUT OIL.

Debate lately seem to have circling around oil, energy and our dependence on that sticky stuff.

We're far far from a real alternative.

Hydrogen have been on the forefront of interest for some time, but so far all the practical applications of a real and true usable source of energy is elusive.

It's like the nuclear bomb, it's so simple that it's almost laughable, but always an engineers nightmare.

The energy contents of hydrogen compared with gasoline is in atmospheric pressure three one hundreds , that of gasoline. So hydrogen needs to be compressed, to get more OOMP per container. Only real way to get a very dense fuel is to cool it down to very very low temperature numbers. A practicality that in cars are pretty big to overcome.

Still, compressed to the standards we have today, and have Hydrogen in it's most practical compact form, still it is so much less available energy then gasoline.

A tank truck can haul gasoline for a refill of 800 cars, but only 60 or 70 fill ups for a Hydrogen car.

We are for industrial use producing already now quite a sizable amount of Hydrogen, but the process most cost effective is by using Hydro Carbon and burn it. We're back where we started, getting greenhouse gasses, to get a clean burning fuel. We have only shifted the fuel, but are getting the same environmental side effect we wanted to cure with the clean fuel in the first place.

In itself a production of Hydrogen is so simple an 8 year old can do it.

Get a battery ( or an DC source) , connect one wire to plus and one to minus, and dip it into water. That's it.

Around one electrode Oxygen will bubble up, and around the other one Hydrogen will bubble.

Using alternative sources like solar cells, or windmills is a possibility, but to cover our current need for fuel, (counted on a 10% efficiency of solar cells) we need to cover an area about the size of Arizona AND Nevada with solar cells, in order to produce our need in hydrogen.

Hydrogen is one of the smallest elements, and will seep through the metal structure of most any material, this will make the metal brittle after a very short usage, and any container, hoses, engines or other material that comes in contact with the Hydrogen, will have a very short life span, and that holds true for the whole chain, production, distribution and the user end.

Tanker trucks will not be cost effective, so pipelines will be a much preferred way to transport Hydrogen. The cost of those specially re enforced pipelines will be far above ordinary oil, or waterlines, and it will set a restriction of distribution to only key points, leaving the retail distribution to less cost effective trucks.

Hydrogen is easy to make, and another possible way to solve the user friendliness of Hydrogen could be to make it locally, at gas stations etc. But that will be a very very huge investment for each gas station owner, and will likely not be a cost effective option.

All in all, unless we start to de-dramatize nuclear power, were stuck with oil for a very long time to come

-- November 12, 2006 2:46 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Good posting. All in all there's relief when Saddam was sentenced. I could figure they would, he has killed, killed and killed, and sometimes just for the pleasure of it. Al Jaazera always have the spin on things.

Wonder if there would be an "accident" and one of our guided missiles went off course right into AlJaazeras station. Very regrettable, and of course all the excuses and apologies had to be delivered, but it would leave a certain after taste that I wouldn't really mind.

Leaving AlJaazera around, is like leaving Goebbels in charge of the German radio after WW2.

Rob N.

Why we went there.Rear mirros are always useful. All in all, I don't think it's too bad of a scheme. Let them fight it out over there, rather than here.

Chris,

There might be a series of smaller RV's or they might go big immediately, or they might just decide to let the Dinar loose on Forex, or, they might very well considering not doing anything at all.

Any logic have failed so far. I really don't mind getting a "hot" rumor on occasion, gives the day up to the predicted RV a bit of shimmering light.

-- November 12, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Shakeup (again) in the Iraqi Gov.

Malaki, Iraq's PM, had a Sunday session in Iraq, where he apparently was loud in his wishes. He blamed all the militias, and considered that the delegates should have their loyalty first and foremost to the Government, and Iraq, before their own sect, or local clan.

Things surely goes slowly over there, now....I mean now... this is an issue. Well, well done for bringing it up in the first place.

Anyhow, it's another shakedown happening over there, Malaki will be selecting other members to play with, and there will be a couple of new faces coming in on the deal.

Well, no one can accuse him for not having a good ground to stand on.

I think Malaki have grown with his task, he was very impotent for the first period of his government, but he is now trying to deal with the real issues.

The issues he is addressing ARE the heavy and important issues.

What color the flag should be, and the annoying return of the borrowed police cars by the militias, that are returned WITHOUT GAS IN THE TANKS, and similar issues seem to fade.

I think he (Malaki) is finally ready to go the course he must.

-- November 12, 2006 9:01 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Iraqi Airways are picking up biz, and are on the market for buying at least five boeing 747.400 aircrafts.

-- November 12, 2006 9:06 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

IRAN AGAIN,

Well, they seem to be more than eager to increase their capabilities of enriching Uranium.

They right now have two banks of 164 centrifuges, a very small level of operation, with that capability they are able to get enough enriched Uranium years from now.

3000 centrifuges are in the plan now. A capacity that can yield fuel to a couple of small warheads, or a few big ones per year.

Extracting out the needed Uranium 235 out of the Uranium 238 isotope is a very slow process.

Basically, the ore is made into "yellow cake" a chemical breakdown of the ore. Then in very simple terms it is distilled, and the gasses are centrifuged. As there is a very small difference in gravity between the heavier U238 and the lighter (very little) U 235, a separation can take place.

Very simply you can say that it works like an oil cracking tower, but using a centrifuge in order to multiply the gravity, instead of a fixed tower, as when you get gasoline, kerosene and diesel out of crude oil.

The very minute difference in gravity between the two needed isotopes, can not be utilized in a fixed gizmo, where you only have the earths natural gravity available, but have to amplify the difference the way only a centrifuge can do in order for separation to be possible.

If the intention is to go nuclear, they have a couple of ways to go. The simplest way is to enrich Uranium. They might also in actual fact use it in power plants, and as a byproduct will have plenty of Plutonium, another unstable element, excellent for use in a chain reaction, as in a bomb.

If they don't rely on imported technology, but are developing their weapons themselves, they will have to go the following route.
1. Uranium enrichment, that will get them a Uranium bomb, and the ability to get Plutonium.
2. Plutonium Bomb.
3. Hydrogen Bomb. They must have either a Plutonium or Uranium bomb, in order to have a hydrogen bomb, as the fission bomb is the fuse for the fusion bomb.

Well, in the name of Allah, they're working on it, and in the same article they threw out a couple of jabs against Israel for good measures.

-- November 12, 2006 9:36 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Darn, it's slow on the Dinar news, have been browsing just to try to fish a bit here and there, but no lure would get a bite. It's weird how much of the info out there is not exactly mis info, but very old info.

Try to dial in "Iraq economy," "Iraq currency" or similar search word.

You will get a lot of websites, with a lot of info, but when looking closer you will find dates like -98 or 03 and so on. Discussion about Bremer, yeah, yeah....

I admit, I'm in a dry spell, can't get anything that are too up to date about what is going on on the Dinar front right now. Anyone else having better luck?

Another round of God perhaps?

How about a good folklore story?

-- November 12, 2006 10:07 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

A bit for the table, picked this up on another site.

Bank of America will start trading in Iraqi Dinars now Mon, 13 th.

That leaves three big banks that are now trading in Dinars,
1. Chase One
2. Wells Fargo
3. Bank of America, the biggest and meanest of them all.

There are also another smaller bank doing it, that is located around the Big Lakes.

Another bit I picked up, you can set it in the rumor department. A person in the Green Zone, went and bought his amount of Dinars, and called in the bank manager at Rasheed Bank in Baghdad.

According to him, there was two basic issues for revaluing the Dinar.
1. the Security situation.
2. The oil production.

The reval would for sure happen, but those two issues were a major one that have to develop favourable.

He himself thought the reval would be in the vicinity where they left off at 32 cents, this as a first reval.

(whatever he meant with "where they left off" I didn't get, maybe he is referring to some landmark with the Dinar in the past.)

He also assured that if you buy Iraqi Dinars now, you will end up a very wealthy man.

This according to the Rasheed Bank Director.

This according to someone that walked in and asked him.

This according to a website, from a guy that referred this article.

This according to ......well it's in the rumor department, but I can see it as plausible that someone in Baghdad would walk in and ask a bank director, it's just a walk in, and why not.

TURTLE, WALK IN TO THE RASHEED BANK AND ASK THE BANK DIRECTOR, WHY NOT, THIS COULD BE A TRUE RUMOR, AND TURTLE, IF YOU GET SOME TIME (FAR AND FEW INBETWEEN, I KNOW) HEY, JUST ASK HIM, HE MIGHT COME UP WITH SOME VERY GOOD INFO.

At least it might set the criteria for when the RV will take place. Oil production and security, at least sounds very much as a real assessment.

-- November 12, 2006 10:56 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Went on a site and found a guy that is going over every Dinar bill he has, with a magnifying glass, noting down every serial number.

As can be seen from all the above postings, I have a very high interest in the Dinar, but hey, isn't that a bit too much.

-- November 12, 2006 11:01 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

"DUTCH DISEASE'

Iraq have a potential of getting the "Dutch Disease" , it's an economic term used for a very specific phenomenon that happened with the Dutch country in Europe, right at the beginning of the oil boom in the North Sea.

The Dutch was exporting natural gas, and had such a windfall, that this at the time became the main, and major export in volume.

The value of the Dutch currency went straight up, and lesser dominant industries in that country suffered greatly, as the currency value will dictate the exports profitability.

Hence, the expression "Dutch Disease" when ONE commodity is the major export from one country.

Iraq is pretty much set up for that right now.

The oil is ready to be pumped, and when that happens, the Dinar WILL follow.

Right now, in other areas other than oil, the Iraqi products exported are very very cheap for any country to buy, and in fact a bargain. Low valued currency, export will gain.

As the pumps are starting up, the currency will increase in value, and the export is no longer a bargain.

A rather safe bet would probably be the banking industry, but I would actually be very very careful investing in anything other than Dinars, Oil, and Banks.

Unless it's a very specialized area, like software research or cellphone development internally in Iraq, or similar specialized services, I would think that when the oil flows, and the Dinars goes with it, any investment in car part manufacturing, or saw blade factory or something of that sort would have a hard time competing on the open market.

My say is, leave that stuff alone to those that have really researched the inner workings of that particular field, and stick to Bank, Currency and Oil investment for now.

-- November 12, 2006 11:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Voice from the Past,

Seems very much like a deliberate leak. Such a detailed war planning found in one of our most "leaky" newspaper tells me that this is a message to the N.Korean regime, more than anything else.

Leaks on national security issues are dealt with in a very serious manner, and the secrets are kept well under wrap.

If such a detailed plans were actually revealed, heads would roll. From what I read, it was more a review of bad things that could happen to N.Korea than a factual plan.

A factual plan would involve what units,resources, land, air and sea, the time table and the exact objective, or objectives.

Naa, this is a deliberate leak, or a made up possible scenario, made up by someone that have military knowledge but no involvement in current planning.

-- November 13, 2006 12:42 AM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Roger,
NAME THE LAST SECURITY LEAK THAT WAS DEALT WITH SERIOUSLY AND WHERE HEADS ROLLED.

-- November 13, 2006 6:58 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Roger: Okie and I are gonna be up on the hill, watchin the bay, sippin on our favorite beverage and smokin a nice Cuban stogie. . .so let the waves roll. . .wadda ya say Okie. . .PH

-- November 13, 2006 8:34 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

Rumors of a reval always sound good. It is just wait and see. The security situation continues to be a thorn in the side of our military. Turtle alluded to something happening, I hope that something can bring lasting order.

Concerning Oil Production, I read that Iraq plans to be pumping out about 6 million barrels a day by 2010. If these are the criteria for the RV it could be another four years before we see any return on our investment. My projection of 2008 is way off the mark.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 13, 2006 9:31 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Rob:

The years 2007 and 2008 is when several financial and banking requirements will be met...if Iran does not take over before then...
I believe your thinking is correct...as I have always thought it would be at the middle of 2007 or 2008 before we saw any significant movement...

Personally...I thought it to be more reasonable to think of a 10 year plan...before any real value came about...

-- November 13, 2006 9:43 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

If we're looking for "options" on how to deal with the Islamic Terrorists.....this might work.
==========================================================================
HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS.... it worked once in our History...

Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.
Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.
All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.
Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch.
They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.

-- November 13, 2006 10:23 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Panhandler.....

I agree.....the only time I want to come down from the Hill is to enjoy some good seafood and raid the local nightspots. What a life!! What a country!!

-- November 13, 2006 10:30 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger....

When the oil boom hits Iraq, it might surprise you how the locals will make money.

When the same thing happened in Saudi Arabia...the first companies to become mega-rich were the street light and fence companies. The Arabs love both these items. Paranoid??

-- November 13, 2006 10:36 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie!
You need to email John Perishing's solution to the democrates ASAP...

According to a report in today's news..... the reason the terrorist are now attacking the Iraqi government, is they believe the Iraqi Leaders are taking orders from Tehran...and have now become Iranian dogs...

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK SO???????????? WHY IN THE HECK WOULD THEY BELIEVE THAT?

MAYBE THEY KNOW SOMETHING FOR CERTAIN THAT WE HAVE ONLY BEEN GUESSING AT FOR THE PAST YEAR...

-- November 13, 2006 11:27 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Seduction: Anatomy of Success and The Lie of Unprovoked Aggression

A - The Seduction of America

Seduction is the art of getting what a person wants by strategy, not truth.
A man seducing a woman is seeking his own advantage, not love (example - Casanova).
He fakes emotions and gives her the illusion he is in love with her to gain what he wants.

In politics, this works very much the same way for those who are insincere.
They also work by strategy and deceit, for their own advantage, and at the expense of the gullible.

INSINCERITY - The Democrats wanted a successful strategy for how to win the election.
They did not start with a heart of gold, seeking the best of the country, but with getting what they want.
And so, they took apart the GOP success in the last few elections.
Why did they win? What strategy worked for them?
Looking from the outside, they carefully picked apart the GOP strategy ..
because if the voters were minded to vote GOP because of these elements which worked for the GOP,
employing them by the Democrats will also work.
It is only logical... like picking apart why a man and woman fall in love and imitating it.
Bring her flowers and candy, write her love notes.. tell her she is wonderful..
but with the caveat that a sincere heart is not necessary.. it is just to get into office.

They found that the electorate was motivated by values.. specifically a perception that President Bush was for the evangelical Christian community.
First thing, undermine/discredit that (see the recent disgruntled employee saying Bush and his people were actually laughing at those values).
And, though those values were ridiculed before by the Democrats, now try to make yourself look real religious and having values:
http://newsbusters.org/node/8693 - 'Jesus-Loving' Democrats Get a Pass, Jesus-Citing Bush Was Pounded in 2000
Candidate: Dems love God more than Republicans - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52692

Second, the GOP were seen as the moral party, whereas (due to the Clinton scandal and etc) the Democrats were not seen as that.
So the second strategy, therefore, is to undermine and discredit the GOP as the "moral" party (Foley scandal). Keep it front and center in the news.

Third, Patriotism - Americans perceived it as patriotic and "the right thing to do" to vote GOP because they stood for Freedom and Truth in sincerity.
So the third strategy, to overcome this - since there is no way to take from the GOP the real thing.. was to undermine this value.. making the public believe the patriotism stinks and that others (the world) do not think the US right or standing for Truth or Freedom (starting with highlighting all the things against the US those people are saying in the terrorist nations). To win, the public must be led to believe that these ideals are not worth standing for and are being betrayed by the GOP. They must see patriotism as repugnant.. arrogance, unsophisticated, politically incorrect. And standing for truth and freedom and democracy as a sham, not worth the lives or dedication it costs. And certainly not an ideal worth living.. or dying, for. See Cindy Sheehan coverage in the news...

-- November 13, 2006 11:47 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Fourth, Americans believed in the last election that the GOP would best protect them against terrorism.
To undermine this, they were told that the strategy the GOP has used is a failure. There is no alternate strategy the Democrats have come up with, so keep the focus on the fact that the objectives are not yet achieved (Iraq is not secure, play up all casualties), even though great progress has been made in a VERY short time. They made sure to NEVER remind them that going into Baghdad there were estimates of up to ten thousand troops being lost and that, though it worried people and never materialized, it was a calculated risk even at that figure (which is over triple the current US losses). Also, they made sure to never remind the electorate of any of the progress in Iraq, such as http://www.glennbeck.com/realstory/iraq-video.shtml and casualties of the insurgents, also, they made certain to play up any lack of progress or terrorist wins, even to the point of showing snuff movies for the terrorists on CNN.
CNN's Iraq Snuff Video Betrayal: Worse Than You Think - http://newsbusters.org/node/8562
(Note the comment: Regarding the number of casualties, Yep, I think we should report the number with the caveat that this is the most "CASUALTY Free" war in US history by comparison to ALL previous actions.)

Fifth, Americans elected President Bush because he is honest, a good leader and they like him. (Thanks, Chris for that article which gave the real perspective on him you posted recently which the American people once believed and elected him on.) Statistically, he has been the most popular President EVER in history. To undermine this, look at the job the one party media press have done of disrespecting and belittling him everywhere. Put yourself under the same microscope the press puts him under and imagine what it would be like. They never show any alterate person, because they have no one who could come close. They just undermine his popularity to enrich their own chances of winning an election. Cheap shot.

As MRC President Brent Bozell said:
“And then they [the Republicans] had the problem with the national press. I will say this unequivocally: In 25 years of looking at the national media, I have never in my life seen a more one-sided, distorted, vicious presentation of news and non-news by the national press. The national press ought to be collectively ashamed of itself. They might as well take out membership in the Democratic national party, they were simply microphones for the party. They need to be ashamed of themselves for what they did.

“They are a laughingstock when it comes to the idea of objective journalism. They distorted the record time and again. A simple example: When gas prices went to near historic highs, the media couldn’t stop talking about what disastrous results Republican party policies were having. When gas prices plummeted, did the media give the Republican party any credit, or this administration? None whatsover. Instead, they advanced Lyndon LaRouche conspiracy theories about how Republicans were manipulating gas prices in order to get elected. Shame on the national press.”

http://newsbusters.org/node/8949

Basically, these hired "experts" dissected each part of the success which elected the GOP and tried to remove the advantage from the GOP by attempting to deceive the public into seeing the Democrats as the embodiment of those values which made them vote GOP last time. It was a seduction, not a reality. Those perpetrating this seduction didn't (and don't) believe what they were saying, they only were trying to imitate success - they aren't the genuine article. It is all political mindgames.. but the US public fell for that deception.

Sara.

-- November 13, 2006 11:48 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Now, no Casanova is going to admit to his victim that what he did or is doing is a seduction...
and the Democrats won't admit that their win was for their own self-interest and also a score for terrorism.
But consider the fact that America's stated enemies are happy about the Democrat victory:

Khameni Calls Democrat Victory A Victory For Iran

From Reuters:
Khamenei calls elections a victory for Iran
By Jon Hemming

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Friday called U.S. President George W. Bush’s defeat in congressional elections a victory for Iran…

"This issue (the elections) is not a purely domestic issue for America, but it is the defeat of Bush’s hawkish policies in the world," Khamenei said in remarks reported by Iran’s student news agency ISNA on Friday.

"Since Washington’s hostile and hawkish policies have always been against the Iranian nation, this defeat is actually an obvious victory for the Iranian nation." …

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/khameni-calls-democrat-victory-a-victory-for-iran

-- November 13, 2006 12:18 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Democrats Now Want Pullout Of Iraq In Four Months

From an overjoyed Reuters:

Start U.S. Iraq withdrawal in 4-6 months: Democrats
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats, who won majorities in the U.S. Congress in last week’s elections, said on Sunday they will push for a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq to begin in four to six months.

"The first order of business is to change the direction of Iraq policy," said Sen. Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat who is expected to be chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee in the new Congress.

Levin, on ABC’s "This Week," said he hoped some Republicans would emerge to join Democrats and press the administration of President George W. Bush to tell the Iraqi government that U.S. presence was "not open-ended."

Bush has insisted that U.S. troops would not leave Iraq until the Iraqis were able to take over security for their country.

"We need to begin a phased redeployment of forces from Iraq in four to six months," Levin said.

Speaking on the same program, Sen. Joseph Biden, a Delaware Democrat who is expected to head the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he supported Levin’s proposal for a withdrawal.

=====

Notice that they aren’t even bothering to pretend it’s "re-deployment."

Reuters and the rest of the media — and of course their terrorist heroes — have won.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/democrats-now-want-iraqi-pullout-in-four-months

-- November 13, 2006 12:28 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara!

You are always confusing me....

What did casanova want?

At my age, I can only think of Old Fashion Hot Buttered Biscuits in the Mornings for breakfast...would I be close in my guess?

-- November 13, 2006 1:14 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Sara:

Thank you for the posts. I really do not think U.S./Iraqi policy will change much in the next two years President Bush is in office. In fact, I heard Tony Snow say at a press conference today that we (the U.S.) will withdraw from Iraq once we win. His statement appears to me to be quite definitive concerning Bush's resolve in Iraq.

Bush, Blair, and Malaki must find a resolve to the insurgent problem within the next two years for Iraq to truly be successful. Bush has a vision for Iraq the Democrats will not see. Though they have control of both Houses of Congress, they are still on the outside looking in.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 13, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

Anti-corruption official in Iraq accused of fraud November 12, 2006 - The head of the Commission on Public Integrity says he is the target of an intimidation campaign.
BAGHDAD — Iraq's top anticorruption watchdog, a high-profile judge whose efforts have been hailed by Americans as one of the few bright spots in the country, is himself the target of a corruption probe, officials said Saturday.
Judge Radhi Radhi, head of Iraq's Commission on Public Integrity, is under investigation by court authorities, accused of turning his 1,700-employee agency into a personal fiefdom and padding his salary with an extra $50,000 a year.
Radhi denies the charges, arguing that they're part of a campaign of intimidation by government officials to quash his investigations, which include examinations of corruption in ministries controlled by Iraq's dominant Shiite Muslim parties.
He said he has come under pressure to shut down his commission or cede its independent status. The government has ignored his requests for information, threatened his legal mandate and demanded he halt his investigations, said Radhi, who is a Shiite, but secular.
"They tell me, "You are not a ministry to be giving us orders," " he said in an interview Saturday. "There are voices among them who say there is no need for this commission."
Lawmakers have threatened not only to remove Radhi from his post for alleged incompetence, but to prosecute him for corruption, as detailed in an Oct. 29 affidavit submitted to the Supreme Judicial Council.
"I don't want him to be just removed from his post, I want him to be punished according to the law," said Sheik Sabah Saadi, a Shiite lawmaker who heads the parliamentary anti-corruption committee and has spearheaded the efforts against Radhi. "We have found financial and administrative corruption inside the integrity commission."
Transparency International, a Berlin-based organization that monitors official graft, patronage and bribery, lists Iraq as the world's third most corrupt nation, behind Haiti and Myanmar.
US officials have hailed Radhi's work. He has pushed for the prosecution of several former ministers and uncovered corruption in the Interior Ministry, which has been infiltrated by Shiite militias. His targets have included former Defense Minister Hazem Shaalan and former Electricity Minister Ayham Sameraei.
Radhi has worked closely with Stuart W. Bowen Jr. of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, a U.S. agency created to investigate waste and fraud by U.S. officials and contractors in Iraq. That agency's legal mandate has run out, and it may soon be folded.
The integrity commission, too, rests on precarious legal ground. It was created by an order of an American, L. Paul Bremer III, head of the former Coalition Provisional Authority, and has never been written into Iraqi law. Iraqi legislators have stalled a vote on whether to give the commission permanent status or dissolve it and let government inspectors audit their own agencies.
The affidavit submitted against Radhi accuses him of hiring staff without publicly advertising jobs.
"We have documents and we have witnesses," Saadi said in a telephone interview from Basra. "It is not a mere accusation."
Saadi also charged that Radhi has managed to show relatively few results, despite the nearly $20 million his agency has been allocated. Saadi called his work sloppy and unprofessional. His few successes, such as his pursuit of Shaalan, were uncovered by others, he said. Under Shaalan, who is no longer in Iraq, billions of dollars disappeared from the Defense Ministry

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 13, 2006 3:13 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Rob N

Headlines are buzzing out of Iraq in 4-6 months.

Nancy Pelosi has just endorsed Murtha for Majority Leader.

I'm glad you remain optomistic but I have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.

We told the Iraqis and our allies that we would stay until the job is done.

If we pull out, how can we ever be trusted again?

-- November 13, 2006 3:17 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Chris:

In my reply to Sara, I stated what I heard Tony Snow say. We will withdraw from Iraq once we have won. This has been the stance of the President since the beginning of the War. This is why I remain optimistic

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 13, 2006 4:28 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From abcnews.go.com

Bush Meets With, Praises Iraq PanelBush Meets With Bipartisan Iraq Study Group on Setting New Course in War, Changing Policy
This photo released by the White House shows President Bush, flanked by Chief of Staff Josh Bolten, right, Vice President Dick Cheney, and National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, far left, during a meets with the Baker-Hamilton Commission in the Roosevelt Room of the White House Monday, Nov. 13, 2006. Members of the Commission include, from front right, Lee Hamilton, James Baker, Sandra Day O'Connor, William Perry, Vernon Jordan, not shown, and Lawrence Eagleburger. (AP Photot/The White House, Eric Draper)

Fla. Senator Mel Martinez to Chair RNC

Talk Politics: Join the Debate
By BEN FELLER

WASHINGTON Nov 13, 2006 (AP)— President Bush on Monday praised a bipartisan commission on Iraq for asking him good questions but said "I'm not going to prejudge" the report the panel soon will issue. He pledged to search with victorious Democrats in Congress for a consensus on how best to proceed.

Bush said the goal in Iraq remains "a government that can sustain, govern and defend itself and serve as an ally in this war on terror." He also said that "I'm not sure what the report is going to say" but said he looked forward to seeing it.

Bush talked in the Oval Office with members of the Iraq Study Group, headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Democratic congressman Lee Hamilton.

"I was impressed by the questions they asked. They want us to succeed in Iraq, just like I want us to succeed. So we had a really good discussion," Bush told reporters as he posed for pictures with visiting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in the Oval Office.

Speaking of congressional Democrats who will soon govern Congress, Bush said, "What's interesting is they're beginning to understand that, with victory comes responsibility and I'm looking forward to working with the Democrats to achieve common objectives."

It was revealed that in addition to the work of the Baker commission, Gen. Pete Pace, chairman of the military Joint Chiefs of Staff, is leading a Pentagon inquiry into the situation in Iraq.

Bush's spokesman described the meeting as a "general conversation about the situation there," rather than a preview of what the group will recommend.

"This was not proposal-shopping by the Iraq Study Group," White House press secretary Tony Snow told reporters.

The members asked questions of Bush, and he of them, Snow said, "but there was care taken not to sort of try to prejudge, or also to get a jump on what they are going to do."

On Monday, the Democrat in line to become chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee accused the administration of ignoring the reality that "we're getting deeper and deeper into a hole" in Iraq. Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan said the study group's report "is going to have an impact on whatever action might be possible in this Congress and in the next Congress."

The study group was spending the day at the White House speaking with members of Bush's national security team, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National Intelligence Director John Negroponte, CIA Director Michael Hayden, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad and Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.

Cheney, Hadley and chief of staff Josh Bolten took part in the meeting with Bush, which ran more than an hour.

Even before it is finished, the study group's report is seen by many as having huge stakes. It could give the Democratic and Republican parties a chance at consensus or at least a tenable framework for agreement after an election that gave Democrats congressional control and reshaped Bush's final two years in office.

Meanwhile, Gen. John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, met Monday with the Iraqi prime minister to "reaffirm President Bush's commitment" to success in Iraq, the government said.

Baker has indicated the recommendations, to be issued before the end of the year, will fall somewhere between the troop withdrawal strategy that Republicans like to say Democrats favor and the stay the course policy until recently used by Bush and widely ridiculed by Democrats.

On Sunday, Bush's advisers adopted a new tone, days after a dissatisfied public handed the White House a divided government.

"We clearly need a fresh approach," said Bolten, making the rounds of morning talk shows.

Levin and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, the incoming chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, predicted that many Republicans would support a resolution on a phased troop reduction now that the election is over.

Yet the Senate's top Democrat, Harry Reid of Nevada, did not seem to go as far. He said he thought the withdrawal of U.S. troops should begin within a few months, but when asked if he would insist on a specific date, he said, "Absolutely not."The administration will not support a timetable for drawing down troops, Bolten said.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 13, 2006 4:38 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Turtle.....

Is this the beginning of the "big" battle you were talking about? If so....it's about time!!!

============================================================================================================
U.S. raids homes of al-Sadr followers By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces Monday night raided the homes of followers of radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, then called in U.S. jets that were circling the northwest Baghdad neighborhood and firing rockets, residents said.

"Occupation forces are currently carrying out raids against al-Sadr's followers in the neighborhood of Shula," Jalil al-Nouri, a senior al-Sadr aide, told The Associated Press by telephone.

Al-Nouri said there were gun battles going on between residents and U.S. troops who were using tanks and armored personnel carriers. He said U.S. Apache helicopters as well as warplanes were involved in the attacks on Shula.
>
>
>
In Monday's session with Abizaid, the government said, the CENTCOM chief "emphasized the multi-national forces commitment to training Iraqi security forces to handle security in all Iraqi provinces."

Al-Maliki has been pressing the United States to move more quickly to hand security affairs over to his army, claiming it could crush violence in the country within six months.

The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. George Casey, recently said it would take 12 to 18 months before Iraqi security forces were ready to control the whole country with some U.S. backup.

Abizaid apparently called al-Maliki's bluff during the Monday meeting by asking the prime minister to give a detailed explanation about how he would do that. The Iraqi government officials said Abizaid asked for "proof that Iraqi security forces were capable of controlling the security situation in order for us to give you more powers as the commander in chief."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061113/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_061113184648

-- November 13, 2006 5:58 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Rob N;

I sincerely hope you are correct about the inability of the Democrats to affect the pullout of the troops from Iraq.
I know President Bush has the power over Foreign Affairs.. but.. there are other things to consider.
Again, I just hope you are right.

Carl;

The promises from a seducer are incalculated to meet the needs of the person seduced.. in this case, the wish of the American people for peace.

Quote:

The cultivation of the pleasures of the senses was ever my principal aim in life. Knowing that I was personally calculated to please the fair sex, I always strove to make myself agreeable to it. - Casanova.

Commentary: Casanova was perhaps the most successful seducer in history; few women could resist him. His method was simple: on meeting a woman, he would study her, go along with her moods, find out what was missing in her life, and provide it.

===end of quote===

Carl - I think he was after more than the Old Fashion Hot Buttered Biscuits.. myself. Just as the Democrats were after more than just helping the American people to have an end to war and the constant images of death they see in the media. The Democrat's aims were for themselves... to obtain political power using what the American people legitimately wanted - peace... just as Casanova would seduce young women who had legitimate desires he could turn to his advantage.

How many seducers use just such false promises.. such as political seducers who promise peace, when there is no peace to be had?

The true way to peace is not smooth and easy, nor so quick to obtain as an immediate pullout appears to be.. and the end of such a seduction is far worse than taking the responsible and more difficult path. The girl isn't getting what she thinks she is.. only the seducer gets what he wants, as Charlotta undoubtedly found concerning Don Juan in this passage from Moliere, "Don Juan; or, The Libertine" translated by John Ozell, in Oscar Mandel, Ed., The Theatre of Don Juan.

Don Juan: Well met, pretty lass! What! Are there such handsome Creatures as you amongst these Fields, these Trees, and Rocks?
Charlotta: I am as you see, Sir.
Don Juan: Are you of this Village?
Charlotta: Yes, sir.
Don Juan: What's your name?
Charlotta: Charlotta, Sir, at your service.
Don Juan: Ah what a fine Person 'tis! What piercing Eyes!
Charlotta: Sir, you make me ashamed..
Con Juan: Pretty Charlotta, you are not marry'd, are you?
Charlotta: No, Sir, but I am soon to be, with Pierrot, son to Goody Simonetta.
Don Juan: What! Shou'd such a one as you be Wife to a Peasant! No, no; that's a profanation of so much Beauty. You was not born to live in a Village. You certainly deserve a better Fortune, and Heaven, which knows it well, brought me hither on purpose to hinder this Marriage and do justice to your Charms; for in short, fair Charlotta, I love you with all my Heart, and if you'll consent I'll deliver you from this miserable Place, and put you in the Condition you deserve. This Love is doubtless sudden, but 'tis an Effect of your great Beauty. I love you as much in a quarter of an Hour as I shou'd another in six Months.

This is an example from Classic Literature, but it does well as an example of how a seduction works..
I don't think his intentions are truly to give her the Love which he is leading her to believe he will, do you?
He sees what she would like and meets that need (as did Casanova). The Dems did this by promising to meet the need for peace.
But I don't think the Democrats can deliver on their election promises of bringing America a quick and lasting peace, do you?
It is, after all, only a seduction - and known to be one by those who were not as green as this young lass.
(Where is the peace they promised? If the troops come home, will it really all end?)

As The Good Book says:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Sara.

-- November 13, 2006 6:05 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Sara:

Good analysis of casanova and Don Juan!!!

My heart aches, in that I did not study their technique as an apprentice of love...I believe I may have faired so much better with the lasses in my youthful paramore adventures...Signnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

-- November 13, 2006 6:55 PM ∞

---

Maureen wrote:

HI All,

For those of you that are interested in the re-eval of the dinar and not attacking each other go to dinartrade.com and read the latest news. I do not know how to copy the article or I would post it myself, but according to the CBI they will adopt a tight monetary policy and believe the dinar should be re-eval at its previous value. There is no date as to when this will happen, but this is the first time I have read Iraqi officials stating the need for the re-eval in public.

Please read the article and tell me what you think.

Maureen

-- November 13, 2006 6:59 PM ∞

---

voice from the past wrote:

Hi Maureen,

Welcome to the sanitarium for dinaraholics.

I went to dinartrade.com. and then clicked on "latest news" and found the article you were referring to. Yes it is very interesting and gives more hope that SOMEHING id obviously in the works.

I found the next item concerning the 4 day workshop regarding the training of high ranking finance minister people even more encouraging.

This probably relates to the latest rumor that Iheard that RV will happen between Nov. 11-14.

The problem with these rumors is that comeone becomes aware of a significant activity and attaches RV to it.

I think it is all going in the right direction. And I hope that it happens soon or there is a great possibility that as rich as we all may be, our biggest effort will not be trying to figure out how to trade our dinars, but how we are going to overcome radiation poisoning.

Both events ( the rv of the dinar and a nuclear attack) are no longer a matter of "if", but "when".

I am in the process of doing a little research on how to best prepare yourself and families for the nuke event.

When I finish I will post for anyone who might be interested.

-- November 13, 2006 9:27 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

OKIE: I'll meet you at Patpong Seafood the day after the re-val. . .I had dinner there my 1st Saturday nite. . .was going to have 6 Tiger Prawns, but opted for 3. . .good choice..They were 60 dollars, and I couldn't finish the 3rd one. . . huge. . oh yea. . .I'll treat the 1st nite. . .PH

-- November 14, 2006 12:21 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Okie: No, we've been running missions on the outskirts of Sadr City for a while but it did feel good ot see that one in the news. There is more news to come and I just hope its as big as possible.

-- November 14, 2006 1:58 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

RV, well let it come, I'm always amused by rumors, but let those come also. As they say, you only have to be right ONCE.

Carl,

You know when the youth has passed you buy, when instead of having problem taking a leak in the morning, you have a problem with leaks all day long.

I'm sure there is some southern cure of some sort out there, maybe you can enlighten us, as long as it doesn't involve Raccoons, Skunks, and roadkill, I'm eager to learn the secret.

Okie, Panhandler,

Seems like your RV have already happened. Ahh, 60 bucks for a couple of shrimp, who cares, just double the tip, and light the stooges with Dollar bills.

This actually gets to a point that is very possible, how to be or behave as newly rich?

There was a study I read that was very interesting.

There seems to be three steps.

1. The show off stage, where the Rolex, Champagne and Lamborghini is a must. Most Lotto winners fall into this category, and fail in their new richness.

2. The serious planning and future investment stage. Some stay there forever, once there is a way for money to make money, the game stay the same, but the goal is always set a bit higher for every earning. The goal now is to continue to stay rich and get more money.

3. When it doesn't matter anymore. Individuals that have reached this stage, make sure they stay rich, but are taking great interest in building up the society, trying to either do direct involvement or do targeted donations in areas where they feel their money will do most good.

Interesting.

I wonder if I would do a lot of money on this Dinar deal, and then go about being very selfish, and egoistic, if I ever will hear a voice, that sounds like they are whispering through a metal pipe, slight echo, but clearly audible, saying ........SCROOOOOOOOGE

Sarah,

So Khameni calls the Democrats win in the election a "Victory for Iran" ??????

When Hezbollah had lost half it's force, all it's territory it controlled, the control of the lost territory replaced with international and Lebanese regular troops, their buildings, offices and infrastructure in rubbles, all their supporters houses shelled back to the stone age, a significant weakening of Hezbollah in Lebanon, and their weapons stash severely depleted, then Iran also called it a "Great Victory for Hezbollah"???

If THAT was a Victory, how is a defeat looking?????

I wonder if the electronic age have developed enough that the people in Iran KNOWS that their leaders are blatantly lying?

The Fascist era in the first part of this century was probably possible because of complete control of the media. Same with the early Soviet era empire.

As means of communication spread, it was an impossibility to either keep a secret, or profess a blatant lie, and the Soviet collapsed. It cant collapse, in other way than from within. The people was so sick and tired of it, that they just finally said, let it go.

The Fascist and Nazi empires in Italy and Germany would most probably not survive, with the communication technology available now. Their lies would have been far far too obvious, and easy to undress. People on the street, would not buy into it, and support would have been marginal.

So here is Iran, claiming VICTORY, hurray...where an actual defeat was obvious.

Israel didn't get what they wanted out of that war, and will most probably do it different if it happens again, but they were the winners, Israel didn't get destroyed, far more losses were amongst Hezbollah, and Hezbollah never had any initiative, other than terror rockets into Israel. Nevertheless, Israel came out of that conflict with the enemy severely banged up.

The Democratic win in the latest election, can not be a Victory for Iran. If it were, they would vote in the Democratic party in Iran.

It's just the same old head wrapped babblers, telling the people to what believe, what to think, when and where to pray, and terrorize the population with their endless scheduled meetings with Allah, screaming loudly starting 5 o clock in the morning, that it's time to be holy.

Wonder why they don't use one of their shoulder fired anti tank rockets to their minarets.

Imagine, 5 o clock, in the morning zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
ALLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAHH IS GREEEEEEEEEE(BOOM)....silence..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

-- November 14, 2006 4:06 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Roger: I said 1st nite. . .not the 1st year. . .lol. . .I'm still a chef. . .and I'm sure that most of my re-val will go for a kitchen that would make Wolfgang Puck envious. .
Okie: BYOB and hang out in the kitchen while I dabble. . .I'm a master at fresh fish and pasta. .PH

-- November 14, 2006 4:52 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Panhandler...

Email me at traderconnections@yahoo.com...I have some side talk I need to do with you..

Carl

-- November 14, 2006 6:38 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Twenty years ago, a Clingon would have observed that today would be a good day to RV

Then again

He thought that prune juice was a warrior's drink!!

Roger,

Maybe that and spoon full of sugar will make the leak go down better.

Maureen wrote

"For those of you that are interested in the re-eval of the dinar and not attacking each other"

Maureen,

Wecome to the discussion but don't hold us in such low esteem. Family bickers best among themselves. Just ask my kids. Bicker goes best with a fine whine.

Welcome to the family. Do you like Pork barbecue?

Glad to see the CBI talking about RV.

Voice from the past,

I'm interested in your Nuclear research. Please post once you have something

-- November 14, 2006 7:16 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Maureen:

Welcome our little community. Thanks for the article. An Iraqi official speaking about a RV is certainly good news. One note of caution, in Iraq progress is slow so we could still be sometime out from the RV.

All:

The portion of this brief article I found interesting are calls for the "Monetary value of the Iraqi dinar must revert to the previous level, or at least to acceptable levels as it is in the Iraqi neighboring states." What previous level? Does this mean during the reign of Saddam? Also, the last half of the statement could reflect matching the exchange rate with the Kuwaiti Dinar? What is the current exchange rate of the Kuwaiti Dinar? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 14, 2006 9:36 AM ∞

---

GeorgeBush wrote:

Wouldn't read too much into the CBI statement. A closer look would indicate that it is from 2004. Even if it were a recent statement, nothing much will come out of it. Remember a statement in Feb 2006 along the same lines. Nothing has happened since.

-- November 14, 2006 10:01 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Rob N.

Current KWD exchange rate is $3.45:1KWD

There is discussion on other blogs about the current NID exchange rate now 1460 NID to USD, which is 5 lower last week and 5 more lower this week. The discussion is centered around has RV started as a gradual move?

Whatever is happening is subject to the Ensala (Enshala) rule.

Ensala directly translated means "God willing"

Practically translated means "when I'm darn well ready to get a round to it"

Everything done in the Middle East is subject to the Ensala rule.

The Middle East has a vibrant procratinator's club

-- November 14, 2006 10:15 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger sez...

"As means of communication spread, it was an impossibility to either keep a secret, or profess a blatant lie"
==========================
Anymore, the first thing you notice in any foreign country is the fact that internet cafes are everywhere. We can thank Bill Gates for the spread of English and open discussion. If some twerp is spreading lies and discontent there will always be some one on the net that's shooting him down with a different idea.

The internet is truly on the side of "freedom of expression" and the Western ways.

I'll even bet Sadr gets tired of people calling him a "fat toad" on the internet...but then again the truth hurts.

-- November 14, 2006 10:27 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sounds like good progress to me. Which reminds me....I need to switch my Warka Bank account to their branch in Kurdistan!
=============================
Austrian Airlines begins regular flights

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13 November 2006 (Reuters)
Austrian Airlines said, last Thursday, that it will begin flights from Vienna to Arbil city in northern Iraq twice a week starting from next December 11th; nine months after relinquishing similar plan.

The Company which was the first European Airline expected to start regular flights to Iraq, said that it considers Irbil the capital of the northern Kurdish region and a safe destination.

It also stated: "Irbil, which has a population of about 1 million people, is the fourth largest city in Iraq and the fastest in growing."

The Company added that Irbil will be a transit point to Mosul and the oil-rich region around Kirkuk, where the United Nations intends to set up a large base in the city".

The Austrian Airlines had announced last January starting regular flights to Irbil, but canceled the plan after a month following a review of the situation.

The Company, which the government owns a share in, was the first Airline that begins regular flights to Sarajevo and Pristina right after the war in former Yugoslavia.

-- November 14, 2006 10:48 AM ∞

---

Paul wrote:

Here is the article.

Central Bank will adopt a tight monetary policy

The Iraqi Central Bank will adopt a tight monetary policy in this regard is aimed at reducing the inflation base through improved exchange rate of the Iraqi dinar and raise the purchasing power of the Iraqi dinar and make cash more attractive means to reflect the circumstances and encouraging indicators in the economy which would help in addressing the danger of dollarization, which is one of the factors. He said the Iraqi Central Bank will adopt a tight monetary policy in this regard is aimed at reducing the inflation base through improved exchange rate of the Iraqi dinar and raise the purchasing power of the Iraqi dinar and make cash more attractive means to reflect the circumstances and encouraging indicators in the economy which would help in addressing the danger of the dollarization,

Zubaidi on this subject : Monetary value of the Iraqi dinar must revert to the previous level, or at least to acceptable levels as it is in the Iraqi neighboring states.

Undersecretary to Minister of Finance:
The rise in the value of the Iraqi currency against the dollar would reduce the value of imports, and raising the value of exports. As exports are negligible, the economy will benefit from the policy of raising the rate of the Iraqi dinar.
Source: Voice of Iraq

-- November 14, 2006 11:40 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

Chuckle.. I was comparing those seductive techniques to the realm of Politics.

Unfortunately, the seducer is much more emotional in his/her appeal than intellectual. Those of us who are more at home with studying and careful argument are disadvantaged. Seducers will NOT say, "I don't think the other side made a wise decision" they WILL say emotion laden phrases like "We deserve better", or "They have made a mess of things." They conjure up FEELINGS not reason and strategy, using diabolic language - language which does not stand for anything real - language that concentrates on their sound, and the feelings they evoke, as more important than what the words stand for.

The Democrats used this well.. they pointed to images of war with the resultant coffins and crying parents and said, "We don't want war.. we want peace. President Bush led us into this. It is a mess. We deserve better. We need a new direction. Elect us!" There was and is no plan from them - they have no strategy - they only wished to use and manipulate people using these emotional images.. they appealed to the EMOTIONS of the people, as a man does to a lady he is seducing. He is trying to make her make a decision to be with him, not through careful reasoning through of that decision but by using seductive langugage which points to a bright future in which her dreams of love are fulfilled (with him).

Using diabolic language - emotionally laden language - seducers make people focus on the sweet-sounding words they use and the illusions and fantasies it conjures, diminishing their contact with reality. Seducers lead into the clouds, where it is hard to distinguish truth from untruth, real from unreal. Keeping their words and meaning vague and ambiguous, people are never quite sure what they mean. Enveloping their victims in demonic, diabolical language, they cause a lack of abilty to focus on the maneuvers or possible consequences of the seduction. It is hypnotic in its effect.

The Democrats have kept the possible consequences of their view of politics out of the picture, and rational discussion of the unvarnished facts hidden from view. The more the American public lost themselves in the illusion of an immediate true peace (which the Democrats assured them would be the result of them voting for the Democrats), the easier it was for the Democrats to lead them astray and seduce them. There is no peace possible with the terrorists, however, and those cold, hard facts will have to be faced one day, pullout or no pullout... we are at war. As President Bush told us, it was thrust upon us and is here to stay for some years to come. The illusion of forgetting it and walking away is indeed false but a favorite fantasy of a pleasure loving public who only wants peace, pleasure and amusement and not the harsh reality of war.

Maureen;

Read an article on it, and yes, it does say, quote:

He said the Iraqi Central Bank will adopt a tight monetary policy in this regard is aimed at reducing the inflation base through improved exchange rate of the Iraqi dinar and raise the purchasing power of the Iraqi dinar and make cash more attractive means to reflect the circumstances and encouraging indicators in the economy which would help in addressing the danger of dollarization, which is one of the factors - The desired in the work of monetary policy and the level of effectiveness to achieve their goals in reducing inflation. Furthermore, the Central Bank will adopt interest rates help to diversify financial market tools religion gradually terms at the same time enabling increased levels of savings and control the levels of cash. He went on to say that these measures will provide a climate conducive to the economic stability which will pave the way for reconstruction and achieve the required growth. in addition to higher levels of employment and reducing unemployment, which will be channeled all in the future of the Iraqi economy and prosperity.

That sounds good to me. We have to see if it translates into a RV or not.. as voice from the past pointed out.
Hope so.

Roger;

The Democrats winning was a victory for the aims of Iran, not something they wish to imitate for their own political landscape. Obviously they don't think in terms of having the Democratic party set up a wing in Iran because they love them all so. They are hellbent in killing ALL Americans. However, the claim of victory was for their agenda which is better served by Democrats in power than Republicans.

Sara.

-- November 14, 2006 11:42 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Voice from the past;

I agree with your statement "Both events ( the rv of the dinar and a nuclear attack) are no longer a matter of "if", but "when"."

I was amazed to learn from this article that in the case of a nuke on Washington DC, 99% of the residents of that city will survive. The casualties come AFTER the explosion and if you know what to do, you can avoid being a casualty. The disinformation that in the case of a nuclear explosion everyone dies came from the peaceniks - the disarmament movement - which ridiculed any alternatives to their agenda. Believing that it is better to be prepared than not to be, I post this article saying, "We hope/pray we never need this, but just in case, read it now, and keep it close for later on!"
Sara.

The good news about nuclear destruction
By Shane Connor

What possible good news could there ever be about nuclear destruction coming to America, whether it is dirty bombs, terrorist nukes or ICBMs from afar?

In a word, they are all survivable for the vast majority of American families, if they know what to do beforehand and have made even the most modest preparations.

Tragically, though, most Americans today won't give much credence to this good news, much less seek out such vital life-saving instruction, as they have been jaded by our culture's pervasive myths of nuclear un-survivability.

Most people think that if nukes go off, then everybody is going to die, or will wish they had. That's why you hear such absurd comments as: "If it happens, I hope I'm at ground zero and go quickly."

This defeatist attitude was born as the disarmament movement ridiculed any alternatives to their agenda. The sound Civil Defense strategies of the '60s have been derided as being largely ineffective, or at worst a cruel joke. With the supposed end of the Cold War in the '80s, most Americans neither saw a need to prepare, nor believed that preparation would do any good. Today, with growing prospects of nuclear terrorism, we see emerging among the public either paralyzing fear or irrational denial. People can no longer envision effective preparations for surviving a nuclear attack.

In fact, though, the biggest surprise for most Americans, if nukes are really unleashed, is that they will still be here!

Most will survive the initial blasts because they won't be close enough to any "ground zero," and that is very good news. Unfortunately, few people will be prepared to survive the coming radioactive fallout, which will eventually kill many times more than the blast. However, there is still more good news: Well over 90 percent of the potential casualties from fallout can be avoided if the public is pre-trained through an aggressive national Civil Defense educational program. Simple measures taken immediately after a nuclear blast, by a trained public, can prevent agonizing death and injury from radiation.

The National Planning Scenario No. 1, an originally confidential internal 2004 study by the Department of Homeland Security, demonstrated the above survival odds when they examined the effects of a terrorist nuke going off in Washington, D.C. They discovered that a 10 kiloton nuke, about two-thirds the size of the Hiroshima bomb, detonated at ground level, would result in about 15,000 immediate deaths and another 15,000 casualties from the initial blast, thermal flash and radiation release. As horrific as that is, the surprising revelation here is that over 99 percent of the residents in the D.C. area will have just witnessed and survived their first nuclear explosion. Clearly, the good news is most people will survive the initial blast!

The study also determined that another 250,000 people would soon be at risk from lethal doses of radiation from the fallout drifting downwind toward them after the blast. These much larger casualty numbers are avoidable, and that's more good news, but only for those pre-trained by a Civil Defense program in what to do before it arrives.

Another study, released this month by the Rand Corporation, looked at a terrorist 10-kiloton nuke arriving in a cargo container and being exploded in the Port of Long Beach, Calif. Over 150,000 people were estimated to be at risk downwind from fallout, again, many more than from the initial blast itself.

Today, lacking any meaningful Civil Defense program, millions of American families continue to be at risk and could perish needlessly for lack of essential knowledge that used to be taught at the grade school level.

The public urgently needs to be instructed in Civil Defense basics, like the good news that thousands can be saved employing the old "Duck and Cover" tactic, without which most people will instead run to the nearest window to see what the big flash was just in time to be shredded by the glass imploding inward from the shock wave. They need to know when promptly evacuating, doing so perpendicular to the coming downwind drift of the fallout would be their best strategy. They must also be taught how to effectively shelter in place for a brief time while the radioactive fallout loses 90 percent of it's lethal intensity in the first seven hours and 99 percent of it in two days. For those requiring sheltering from fallout, the majority would only need a couple or three days of hunkering down, not weeks on end.

This good news is within easy grasp of most people because an effective improvised family fallout shelter can be put together at home both cheaply and quickly, but only if the public is trained beforehand, as was begun in the '60s with our national Civil Defense program.

Unfortunately, our government today is doing little to promote nuclear preparedness and Civil Defense instruction among the general public. Regrettably, most of our officials, like the public, are still captive to the same illusions that training and preparation are ineffective against a nuclear threat.

Department of Homeland Security head Michael Chertoff demonstrated this attitude last year when he responded to the following question in USA Today:

Q: In the last four years, the most horrific scenario – a nuclear attack – may be the least discussed. If there were to be a nuclear attack tomorrow by terrorists on an American city, how would it be handled?
A: In the area of a nuclear bomb, it's prevention, prevention, prevention. If a nuclear bomb goes off, you are not going to be able to protect against it. There's no city strong enough infrastructure-wise to withstand such a hit. No matter how you approach it, there'd be a huge loss of life.

Mr. Chertoff fails to grasp that most of that "huge loss of life" is preventable if the survivors of the blast and those downwind knew what to do beforehand. He only acknowledges that the infrastructure will be severely compromised – responders won't be responding. Civil Defense training of the public is clearly the only hope for those in the fallout path. Of course, the government should try and prevent it happening first, but the answer he should have given to that question is: "preparation, preparation, preparation" for when prevention might fail.

The federal government must launch a national mass media, business-supported and even school-based effort, superseding our most ambitious public awareness campaigns like for AIDS, drug abuse, drunk driving, seat belts, anti-smoking and smoke detectors. The effort should percolate down to every level of our society. Let's be clear – we are talking about the potential to save, or lose, many times more lives than those saved by all these other noble efforts combined!

Instead, Homeland Security continues to be focused primarily on two missions:

1. Interdiction – stopping nuclear materials and terrorists at the border
2. COG – Continuity of Government for when No. 1 fails

The most important mission has been largely ignored:

3. Continuity of the Public – proven mass media Civil Defense training of the public that would make the survival difference for the vast majority of Americans affected by a nuclear event.

This tragic and deadly oversight won't change until the crippling myths of nuclear un-survivability are banished by the good news that a trained and prepared public can, and ultimately has to, save themselves.

National Civil Defense is an issue we hope and pray will come to the forefront politically this fall, with both parties vying to outdo each other in proposing aggressive Civil Defense educational programs. We are not asking billions for provisioned public fallout shelters for all, like what already awaits many of our politicians. We are just asking for a comprehensive mass media, business- and school-based re-release of the proven practical strategies of Civil Defense education, similar to what already has been embraced by the Chinese, Russians, Swiss, Israelis and even Singapore.

In the meantime, though, don't wait around for the government to instruct and prepare your own family and community. Educate yourself today and begin establishing your own nuclear survival preparations by reading the free nuke prep primer "What To Do If A Nuclear Disaster Is Imminent!" HERE:

http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm

Then pass copies on to friends, neighbors, relatives, churches and even local news media – and to your local elected representatives – with a brief note attached saying simply: "We hope/pray we never need this, but just in case, read it now, and keep it close for later on!" You might also forward them a copy of this article to help spread the good news that's liberating American's from the deadly myths of nuclear un-survivability!

===

Shane Connor is the CEO of www.ki4u.com and www.nukalert.com, consultants and developers of Civil Defense solutions to government, military, private organizations and individual families.

-- November 14, 2006 12:03 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N,

"The Middle East has a vibrant procrastinators club".

The Middle East has a anal but vibrator, reaching to the prostate, as standard equipment in their hostage taking PU trucks.

Today, these apes went and took 150 teachers and professors, at the Iraq Dep of Education.

What a completely moron way of life, by kidnapping teachers, and professors, they will ensure their own kids will stay ignorant. Ignorant as they are.

It shows that general knowledge is a very big threat to some.

Those head wrapped blabbers, knowing nothing , demanding endless apologies from the world , enforcing their cave dwelling view as a truth, well, the problem is. WE see them as people, and impose human value in the dealings with them.

If we dehumanize them, in the same way as they have dehumanized everyone else, it would legally solve the problem with our handling of them.

How much thought do you give to a road killed deer? Plenty of those lying around. This is simple, dehumanize those that dehumanize others, and you should have no problem seeing a cadaver lying around from one of those terrorists.

-- November 14, 2006 12:08 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

I get upset as well when I see what I know are atrocities being committed against other human beings. I am also alarmed that some in the US (perhaps the majority, if the election means anything) are unwilling to deal with the clear reality that these people mean to molest the United States in the future and won't keep their torture of humanity on their side of the ocean (if their words and proclamations mean anything - and they do appear to keep their word on things.) Sticking our heads in the sand and hoping for peace won't cope with the realities of these murderers until it is too late. I prefer prevention, not mopping up casualites afterward... though perhaps we should be prepared for both.

Sara.

-- November 14, 2006 12:29 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Speaking of prevention...

I also did some independent research about nuclear fallout and I found an interesting supplement I think is a good idea to consider. From this summary - below, you can see that this powerful universal antioxidant could be used to protect a person from dirty bomb or nuclear radiation fallout. Note how taking the supplement returned to normal the blood pathology of the thousands of children affected by the Chernobyl disaster, and the fact that this nutrient works best by having a concentration in the blood before exposure (such that it prevented Cataracts, mercury poisioning, arsenite and cadmium poisioning, minimized liver toxicity from exposure to poisions (nuclear fallout) and extended the length of time a person could go without oxygen before brain damage occurs - any changes in environmental availability of oxygen).

Apart from the benefits of having such a great antioxidant which protects against brain injury from excitotoxins, heart/stroke and liver damage AND gives renewed energy and memory capacity - the protective qualities concerning the possible danger from nuclear fallout is clear. If even ONE bomb were to detonate on US soil, the wind would carry it to the rest of the US and expose you and your loved ones to some degree of radiation which is harmful. This could make a large difference in whether you and your loved ones succumb (35% survival rate without ALA, see lab study below) or live (90% survival rate, see lab study below). It would affect survival on one end of the scale (close to the bomb) or degree of illness (far from it).

I wish ALL the soldiers serving us in Iraq were able to take this supplement daily because of how it protects against many dangers which could affect them, too.

Food for thought..

Sara.
Quote:

Alpha-Lipoic acid: Is it a miracle nutrient?

Alpha-lipoic acid, also called thiotic acid, is a natural component of tissues throughout the body. It has a multitude of functions, many of which play an important role in protecting the body against free radicals, heavy metal toxicity, and a number of age-related destructive changes in cells and tissues. It is an powerful antioxidant, a compound that blocks the action of activated oxygen molecules, known as free radicals, that can damage cells. Oxidation may also play a role in causing poor health as people age, and some researchers claim that lipoic acid is beneficial to maintaining good health in old age. Because it dissolves in both water and fat, this so-called "universal antioxidant" is able to scavenge more wayward free-radical cells than most antioxidants, the majority of which tend to dissolve in either fat or water but not both. Alpha-lipoic acid can reach tissues composed mainly of fat, such as the nervous system, as well as those made mainly of water, such as the heart.

Several qualities distinguish alpha-lipoic acid from other antioxidants, and Packer has described it at various times as the "universal," "ideal," and "metabolic" antioxidant. It neutralizes free radicals in both the fatty and watery regions of cells, in contrast to vitamin C (which is water soluble) and vitamin E (which is fat soluble). It can scavenge the peroxyl radical and has been shown to protect DNA from single strand breaks caused by singlet oxygen. It can chelate free iron and copper, both of which are very powerful free radical generators. And it can regenerate other antioxidants - recycling Vitamin C and E and preventing the symptoms of both Vitamin C and E deficiency. It can also increase the levels of Coenzyme Q10 and intracellular glutathione, another powerful antioxidant.

Besides its function as a free radical scavenger and regenerator of other antioxidants, alpha-lipoic acid has been shown to enhance glucose transportation into cells, even without insulin. Normally glucose cannot enter a cell, except in the brain, unless insulin is present. What makes this especially important is that this could play a vital role in the treating of both forms of diabetes, type 1 or juvenile onset, and type2, adult onset.

In Germany, alpha-lipoic acid is an approved medical treatment for peripheral neuropathy, a common complication of diabetes which is a nerve disease that causes pain and numbness in the hands and feet. It speeds the removal of glucose from the bloodstream, at least partly by enhancing insulin function, and it reduces insulin resistance, an underpinning of many cases of coronary heart disease and obesity. The therapeutic dose for lipoic acid is 600 mg/day.

Discovered in 1951, it serves as a coenzyme in the Krebs cycle and in the production of cellular energy. In addition to functioning as an antioxidant, this hard-working nutrient assists the B vitamins in producing energy from the proteins, carbohydrates, and fats consumed through foods. Because it plays a part in cellular energy production, some nutritionally oriented physicians recommend alpha-lipoic acid for the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome.

They discovered that vitamin-K and, in particular, lipoic acid were highly efficient in killing colon cancer cells. Using a 10:1 ratio of vitamin C to lipoic acid had a synergistic effect and this mixture killed 50 per cent of all cancer cells at a concentration of only 4.5 mM. Some proponents believe that lipoic acid may inhibit the gene that triggers cancer cells to grow.

Clinical Studies with Alpha-Lipoic Acid and DHLA (reduced Alpha-lipoic Acid)

In clinical studies, alpha-lipoic acid was shown to enhance glucose utilization by 50%. Significant improvement concerning diabetic polyneuropathy - which is a disorder of the nerves in the arms and legs causing severe burning pains and numbness - was found with alpha-lipoic acid. Additionally, alpha-lipoic acid PREVENTED cataract formation believed to be related to free radical damage to the lens of the eye which can be common among diabetics.

It is known that when the blood supply to the brain is temporarily cut off and then restored minutes later the brain is flooded with free radicals, often leading to the death of the animals. (In other words, a person does not die of suffocation, they die of the brain being flooded with free radicals due to the oxygen supply being cut off. - ed) This would mimic the clinical situation seen with persons suffering from a sudden and prolonged cardiac arrest or from a massive stroke. Normally, the mortality from such experiments is as high as 80%. But when animals are pretreated with alpha-lipoic acid the mortality falls to 20%. This remarkable lowering of death rates in animals receiving alpha-lipoic acid is in part due to improved glutathione concentrations in the brain and the resulting reduction in lipid peroxidation.

Another effect of alpha-lipoic acid is its effect on the aging brain. In one study of memory loss seen in aging mice, alpha-lipoic acid supplementation improved performance to such an extent that twenty-four hours later the aged animals were performing better than the young animals. Yet, when given to the younger animals it did not improve their memory.

Greenamyre and his co-workers found that by treating animals with alpha-lipoic acid or DHLA for seven days they could significantly reduce (by 50%), either directly or indirectly, excitotoxic lesions caused by injecting a powerful excitotoxin or metabolic inhibitor deep into the brain.

Alpha-lipoic acid, but not DHLA, was discovered to give profound protection against radiation injury to the blood forming tissues (hematopoetic tissue) in mice. Survival in heavily irridated mice increased from 35% to 90% when they were treated with alpha-lipoic acid. And, in one of the largest human experiments in radiation exposure, the Chernobyl disaster, it was found that thousands of children, as well as adults, were living in zones of constant low-level radiation. These children were found to have high levels of peroxidation products in their blood. But, the children treated with alpha-lipoic acid were found to have levels as low as that of unexposed, normal children. The addition of vitamin E to the alpha-lipoic acid lowered the levels of the peroxidation products even further, while vitamin E alone had no effect.

They also suggested that it might be useful in liver disease as well. Intravenous forms of alpha-lipoic acid are administered in hospitals to treat cases of acute mushroom poisoning and for other cases of acute poisoning that affect the liver. Alpha-lipoic acid protects the liver in cases of hepatitis and other types of liver disease. As an antioxidant, alpha-lipoic acid shields the liver from potentially harmful cell changes and assists it in flushing toxins from the body. This makes it useful in treating such liver disorders as chronic hepatitis and cirrhosis.

Laboratory and animal studies have found that alpha-lipoic acid is beneficial in treating stroke, cataract formation, glaucoma, liver ailments, HIV infection, nerve degeneration, and radiation injury.

Alpha-lipoic acid may also aid the large percentage (approximately 25%) of people with diabetes who risk sudden death from nerve-related heart damage. In one study, improved heart function was observed in people at risk for this complication who took 800 mg of alpha-lipoic acid daily for four months. In addition, alpha-lipoic acid may benefit anyone whose limbs tend to tingle or become numb, or "fall asleep" due to nerve compression. In animal studies, alpha-lipoic acid increased blood flow to the nerves and improved transmission of nerve impulses.

METALS

Finally, alpha-lipoic acid, as a metal chelator, has been shown to offer complete protection against mercury poisioning in mice when given in a high dose. Similar protection was seen in cases of arsenite poisioning in animals. But the dose had to be in a high ratio to the poison. (Perhaps the reason INTRAVENOUS forms of alpha-lipoic acid are administered in hospitals to treat cases of acute mushroom poisoning and for other cases of acute poisoning that affect the liver.)

Cadmium poisoning - alpha-lipoic acid was found to completely prevent cadmium-induced lipid peroxidation in the heart, brain and testes.

Alpha-lipoic acid supplements have also proved effective in minimizing liver toxicity following exposure to poisons such as heavy metals (including lead) and toxic industrial chemicals such as carbon tetrachloride. And as mentioned before, ALA can chelate free iron and copper, both of which are very powerful free radical generators.

Taking the Supplement

Lipoic acid found naturally in foods is safe. Research has shown that 300-600 mg of lipoic acid a day may be safely taken with no side effects. Alpha-lipoic acid can be taken either with or without food. Alpha-lipoic acid works best if it is taken on a daily basis, since in several experiments protection was only afforded if it had been taken well in advance before the damaging event. Most likely, this is because it must be converted to its active form, DHLA in order to give full protection.

The side effects associated with alpha-lipoic acid are usually few and minor. The Germans have been using it in larger doses for many years. Allergic skin reactions are possible and when given in very large intravenous doses it may lower the blood sugar to hypoglycemic levels.

References taken from:
Excitotoxins, the taste that kills by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. Page 245-248
http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/vitamins/lipoicacid.htm

-- November 14, 2006 12:39 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sarah,

Yes it's a problem, if we dehumanize them we will become them. Then again, I don't mind if it is a rational decision for the greatest good for the most number.

If your kid really deserves a slap, and get it, it's the best for him, and even if it hurts giving it, it's the best choice.

Perhaps the curse of the modern communication is the revalue of distribution of justice.

In the past, if a rowdy teenager took over a car in the subway, chances of a construction worker would rise up and get him by the collar was very high.

Today no one dares, either you're afraid of getting sued, or have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that any justice action is done by police only, or you're afraid of being exposed by someone with a video camera, that will send the video to your employer, or something.

So the unethical behavior, today, have gotten a "right".

That "right" is also seemingly transferred to terrorists.

-- November 14, 2006 12:47 PM ∞

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Maureen wrote:

HI,

Georgebush,

Can you please tell me where to go to read this article from 2 yrs ago. I have looked around have been unable to find a 2 yr article that matches the article posted yesterday on Dinar Trade.

I realize that we have been given many dates for the RV that have come and gone, but if I am getting 2 yr old news I would like to know.

As for everyone else I know that this poosibly just another rumor--but it does appear to be coming form a source that has more to gain from a RV.

By the way I like my Pork handpulled with lots of bbq sauce on a nice big soft french roll.

-- November 14, 2006 12:52 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I know this article about a threat to attack the US by a banker's son in the UK is from one month ago, but I don't believe it was posted here (nor did it have much coverage in the mainstream US media press) and I thought that it might also make us all think along the lines of prevention concerning nuclear harm (dirty bombs, nukes) and that the threat is real.

Sara.

Man admits terror plot to blow up Wall St amid 'dirty bomb' revelation
By BEN TAYLOR and COLIN FERNANDEZ 12th October 2006

A British Muslim terrorist mastermind faces life in jail after he admitted plotting a radioactive 'dirty bomb' attack in the UK and a string of devastating atrocities in the USA.

Dhiren Barot, 34, planned to kill "as many innocent people as possible" by blowing up some of the world's largest financial institutions including the New York Stock Exchange, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

In the UK, the banker's son - who was brought up in London as a Hindu - plotted to detonate a radioactive bomb and blow up buildings by packing stretch limousines with gas cylinders in underground car parks.

The unprecedented and extraordinary attack was dubbed the 'Gas Limo project' and was designed to cause "injury, fear, terror or chaos" for hundreds of Britons.

Both plots were smashed by Scotland Yard in August 2004 when Barot was arrested in Harlesden, North West London, after a dramatic chase which culminated in him hiding in a barber's shop.

Barot, wearing a khaki-coloured zip-up jumper and black shirt and sporting a short beard, said calmly: "I plead guilty." and made notes on his laptop computer throughout the hearing.

Outlining the basis of plea, Edmund Lawson, QC, said that the conspiracy against the US buildings included attacks on the Washington-based World Bank and International Monetary Fund, the New York Stock Exchange and two financial institutions: the Citigroup and Prudential buildings.

The idea, said Mr Lawson, was to carry out bombings "with no warning".

He added: "They were plainly designed to carry out explosions designed to kill as many innocent people as possible."

The court heard how Barot sketched out details for a "radioactive dirty bomb project".

"The radiation dirty bomb project was not intended to kill but rather to carry out the objectives I referred to:, injury, fear, terror and chaos

Barot, who was raised a Hindu, attended the highly rated Kingsbury High School in the North London suburbs.

Barot took exams in English, Maths, French, Graphical Communication, and Typewriting but was rejected from jobs with two High Street banks and left to pursue various menial jobs.

But, by the age of 20, however, he had converted to Islam after a family visit to the disputed territory of Kashmir - the subject of a bitter and bloody battle between India and Pakistan.

Mr Justice Butterfield, said that when Barot is sentenced at a later date he "would be the first Muslim terrorist to be sentenced for such a grave offence as conspiracy to murder. It is likely to attract very considerable debate and discussion".

Friends of the family said Barot was a lovely boy who had been brainwashed by extremists.

"He was a really good kid. How can a nice Hindu boy change into a Muslim? I believe he was brainwashed," said a neighbour.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=410153&in_page_id=1770

-- November 14, 2006 1:35 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Ahmadinejad Says Iran Will Have The Bomb By March
From his elated fans at the DNC’s Associated Press:

Iran Says Nuke Program Is Near Complete

Iranian President Says Country Will Soon Celebrate Completion of Nuclear Fuel Program

By ALI AKBAR

TEHRAN, Iran - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday said Iran would soon celebrate completion of its controversial nuclear fuel program.

"With the wisdom and resistance of the nation, today our position has stabilized. I’m very hopeful that we will be able to hold the big celebration of Iran’s full nuclearization in the current year," the hard-line president said referring to the country’s nuclear fuel program.

Iran’s current calendar year ends on March 20.

The hard-line president also claimed that the international community was caving in to Tehran’s demands to continue its nuclear program.

"Initially, they (the U.S. and its allies) were very angry. The reason was clear: They basically wanted to monopolize nuclear power in order to rule the world and impose their will on nations," Ahmadinejad said.

"Today, they have finally agreed to live with a nuclear Iran, with an Iran possessing (the whole) nuclear fuel cycle," he said, without elaborating.

Iran has been locked in a standoff with the West over its nuclear program. The United States and its European allies have been seeking a U.N. Security Council resolution imposing impose sanctions on Tehran for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment.

Russia, which is backed by China, has opposed tough action advocated by the U.S., Britain and France, and its amendments to a Western draft resolution would reduce sanctions and delete language that would cut off Iran’s access to foreign missile technology…

Ahmadinejad said he will soon send a message to the American people in an apparent attempt to influence the U.S. public opinion over President George W. Bush’s policy toward Iran.

"We will issue a message to the American people … many Americans have asked me to talk to them and offer my opinions to them. This message is being drawn up," he said…

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2651643
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/ahmadinejad-says-iran-will-have-the-bomb-by-march

-- November 14, 2006 2:28 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Ahmadinejad said he will soon send a message to the American people in an apparent attempt to influence the U.S. public opinion over President George W. Bush’s policy toward Iran.

Obviously, the message he received was that the US is listening to terrorists and that terrorists can influence public opinion..
I wonder if the elections had anything to do with creating that impression?

Sara.

-- November 14, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Israel doomed ‘to destruction’: Ahmadinejad

TEHRAN –– Iranian President Mamhoud Ahmadinejad said that Israel was doomed ‘to destruction” and would soon disappear, in his latest verbal attack on the Jewish state, local news agencies reported.

“The great powers created the Zionist regime to extend their domination in the region. Every day this regime is massacring Palestinians,” Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying late on Sunday in a meeting with ministers.

“As this regime goes against the path of life, we will soon see its disappearance and its destruction,”Ahmadinejad.

http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=37574

-- November 14, 2006 3:24 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Netanyahu: It's 1938 and Iran is Germany; Ahmadinejad is preparing another Holocaust

By Peter Hirschberg, Haaretz Correspondent
14/11/2006

LOS ANGELES - Drawing a direct analogy between Iran and Nazi Germany, Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu asserted Monday that the Iranian nuclear program posed a threat not only to Israel, but to the entire western world. There was "still time," however, to prevent Tehran from acquiring nuclear weapons, he said.

"It's 1938 and Iran is Germany. And Iran is racing to arm itself with atomic bombs," Netanyahu told delegates to the annual United Jewish Communities General Assembly, repeating the line several times, like a chorus, during his address. "Believe him and stop him," the opposition leader said of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "This is what we must do. Everything else pales before this."

While the Iranian president "denies the Holocaust," Netanyahu said, "he is preparing another Holocaust for the Jewish state."

"... Israel would certainly be the first stop on Iran's tour of destruction, but at the planned production rate of 25 nuclear bombs a year ... [the arsenal] will be directed against 'the big Satan,' the U.S., and the 'moderate Satan,' Europe," Netanyahu said.

"Iran is developing ballistic missiles that would reach America, and now they prepare missiles with an adequate range to cover the whole of Europe," he added.

"No one cared"

Criticizing the international community in his GA speech for not acting more forcefully in trying to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power - "No one cared then and no one seems to care now," he said, again drawing on the Nazi parallel - Netanyahu warned that Tehran's nuclear and missile program "goes way beyond the destruction of Israel - it is directed to achieve world-wide range. It's a global program in the service of a mad ideology."

Large sections of the international community, he said, also misunderstood the nature of radical Islam and its role in the Mideast conflict.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/787766.html

-- November 14, 2006 3:43 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.cnn.com.

Iraq panel offers hope, but unlikely to end debate
POSTED: 3:10 p.m. EST, November 14, 2006
Story Highlights• NEW: Blair tells panel Mideast peace process, Iraq army keys to success
• Bipartisan panel to make recommendations changes to Iraq policy
• Timetable for troop withdrawals, diplomacy among options being considered
• Republican senators say troop withdraws could lead to chaos
Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Bitterly divided on Iraq, lawmakers in both parties are eagerly awaiting recommendations from an advisory group led by Republican and Bush family friend James A. Baker III and former Democratic Rep. Lee Hamilton.

But even if the bipartisan Iraq Study Group is able to forge a consensus on how to deal with Iraq -- a prospect that remains unclear -- the panel is unlikely to offer a solution so groundbreaking it will stave off a brewing partisan feud.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who is in line to be the chairman next year of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Monday the Bush administration didn't see that "we're getting deeper and deeper into a hole" in Iraq. (Watch Sen. Levin pressure the White House to change it's Iraq policy -- 1:27 )

Two options under discussion at one point by the study group -- greater cooperation with Iran and Syria, and a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops -- would require a major policy shift by the Bush administration.

Republicans oppose setting any type of timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, and the United States has no diplomatic ties with Iran

Blair: Step up diplomacy with Iran, Syria
The panel's members, gathered at the White House, spoke Tuesday with British Prime Minister Tony Blair by videoconference from London.

Blair told them the most decisive steps the U.S. could take to end the violence in Iraq would be to work for an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and to help the Iraqi government improve its army, end sectarianism in its security forces and distribute revenue more fairly across the country.

Ending the Israeli-Palestinian dispute would remove an issue that extremists in the region exploit and boost pressure on Iran and Syria to help staunch the bloodshed in Iraq, Blair said.

Blair's comments were described in London by his spokesman, who spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with government policy.

The Iraq study panel, established by Congress in March, is not expected to unveil its findings until some time after Thanksgiving. According to a Democratic aide, Baker told a senator he won't issue any plan unless the group finds consensus.

The panel consists of five Democrats and five Republicans, each prominent members in their political camps and holding their own ideas on how Iraq should be settled. (Who's who in the Iraq Study Group)

Yet Baker's group has become the beacon of hope for lawmakers who want to resolve the Iraq war before the 2008 presidential elections. Polls of voters in last week's midterm elections, which returned Democrats to power in the next Congress, found a majority -- about six in 10 -- disapproved of the war in Iraq. Two-thirds of independent voters said they disapproved of the war.

Later Tuesday, the study group was to meet at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington with foreign policy advisers from the Clinton administration, including Sandy Berger, Clinton's national security adviser; Richard Holbrooke, former ambassador to the U.N.; and Warren Christopher, former secretary of state.

On Monday, Blair said Iran and Syria's aid should be solicited to help stem the violence in Iraq. Resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and stabilizing Lebanon also would help to unite the region behind peace, he said.

Bush's chief of staff, Josh Bolten, said the White House would consider opening talks with Syria and Iran if Baker and Hamilton recommended it.

Baker's group also has been briefed by Democrats on their plan to begin pulling out some troops right away. Levin and other Democrats agree this is a necessary first step to put political pressure on the Iraqis.

Aside from that initial step, Democrats remain divided on what should happen next, how many troops should leave and how many should stay.

Republicans resist timetables
Several Republicans staunchly oppose setting any timetable because they say Iraq could collapse into chaos. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, said shortly before the Nov. 7 elections that the Bush administration had led Iraq to the verge of chaos. On Monday, Graham reiterated his position that more troops, not fewer troops, are needed to settle the violence there.

"That should be our goal in the coming months, to provide a better security situation on the ground," Graham said, echoing a comment by Bush.

"I believe it is very important ... for people making suggestions to recognize that the best military options depend upon the conditions on the ground," the president said.

Sens. John Warner, R-Virginia, who is chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, also warned against any timetable.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 14, 2006 4:27 PM ∞

---

Steve wrote:

Hello all,

Been gone for a while. Glad to see Sara is back to her old self.

I'm not glad to see that the Dinar is still like it's old self however.......

The Iranian president is loony. Scary really. I think Nethanyahu is right on target with the scenario he outlines. Unfortunately most are just as apathetic today as they were in 38. Rest assured that Israel will take matters into their own hands if the countrys sovereignty is threatened.

Lots of deep posting going on here lately. I'm not sure if I want to wade into thoes waters though. Good thought on the ALA article Sara, but the dangers our troops face in the field are of a slightly different nature than those which ALA protect against. Many different mechanisms are at play when damage occurs to the body.

As a final thought: Many people wonder why we decided to undertake this mission (the war on terror) piecemeal. Anyone have thoughts on why the US public seems to be exhibiting an air of ambivalence towards this situation despite the fact that 9/11 represented the largest attack on US soil ever?

There are many ways to lose this conflict. Iranian tanks sitting on the White House lawn is the least likely secnario here but unfortunately the one that most people have locked into thier minds as the only condition for our defeat..........

-- November 14, 2006 6:01 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Steve;

Please note:

The Case Against Depleted Uranium
by Don Monkerud

On September 7, in the first court case on Gulf War I to reach Federal Court, nine veterans from a National Guard unit argued their case before a judge in New York, claiming the Army violated its own safety protocols by exposing them to radioactive depleted uranium and refusing to provide medical care. Representing the US Army, Assistant US Attorney John Cronan asked the court to dismiss the lawsuit immediately because courts can't decide "sensitive military matters" and a 1950 Supreme Court decision ruled that soldiers can't sue the government for injuries caused by their military service. The Court has not reached a decision.

Considered highly-effective in penetrating armor, uranium munitions are used by the main US Abrams battle tanks, Bradley Fighting vehicles, A-10 attack aircraft and a host of other ammunition, including bunker busters. Upon impact, DU munitions burn at 3000 to 6000 degrees Centigrade and combust into a radioactive gas of fine particles of uranium oxide dust, which remain suspended in the air and, once inhaled, become a chronic source of uranium heavy metal and contact radiation poisoning. Estimates vary on the total tonnage of DU used by the US and include: during the US bombing of Yugoslavia, 34 tons of DU; in Gulf War I, up to 375 tons; in Afghanistan in 2001, 1,000 tons; and in Gulf War II in 2003, up to 2,200 tons.

The release of radioactive and chemically toxic dust and uranium fragments causes serious medical problems. According to Leuren Moret, an independent scientist and international radiation specialist, depleted uranium is considered a factor in Gulf War syndrome, which affects many of the 325,000 Gulf War I veterans who are on permanent medical disability.

Depleted uranium remains a nagging problem for the US Army, which extensively used such munitions during fighting in Gulf War I, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq. DU is a chemically toxic, radioactive element with a half-life of 4.5 billion years that damages the kidneys and lungs, causes genetic mutations and cancer, and is associated with a number of medical problems.

In August 2004, the VA reported that over 518,739 Persian Gulf veterans were on medical disability since 1991. Moret attributes many of these disabilities to DU exposure. Although some remain controversial, Moret compiled a list of 100 illnesses that veterans associated with DU, including brain tumors, Hodgkin lymphoma, leukemia, rectal cancer, Parkinson's disease, respiratory problems, rashes, kidney and eye problems, and thyroid cancer. Others point to definite connections between DU and brain tumors, and Hodgkin and non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

"Under international law, depleted uranium meets the definition of WMD and violates US military law as well as the Geneva and Hague conventions," says Moret. " .. a US Army report by Col. E. Wakayama in August 2002, confirms serious health and environmental problems. The report recommends long-term sampling of water and milk from sites heavily contaminated with DU and the removal of contaminated soil from populated areas.

The Pentagon took 25 years to acknowledge problems with the corrosive defoliant Agent Orange, used in Vietnam to destroy the jungle. It took 40 years before sick WWII veterans were compensated for exposure to atomic bomb radiation. Officials today can't say, "We didn't know," because they are fully aware of the dangers of DU. How long will it take them to stop using radioactive ammunition and exposing soldiers and civilians to genetic damage, cancer and other illnesses?

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/?itemid=1977

Steve - I was speaking of this when I spoke of ALA helping with radiation which the troops might be exposed to. Note in the articles above that the ALA returned the Chernobyl children's blood to NORMAL after being exposed to toxic levels of nuclear radiation. I think it would help in the case where a soldier is exposed to contact radiation and I think it a wise thing to take because of its ability to counteract heavy metal toxicity present in the dust, both of which remain concerns of exposure to the fallout from these munitions which are still in use. Note that "Alpha-lipoic acid supplements have also proved effective in minimizing liver toxicity following exposure to poisons such as heavy metals (including lead) and toxic industrial chemicals such as carbon tetrachloride." Note the 2,575 tons of it used in the Gulf Wars.. who knows where that stuff is or if it could be kicked up in a sandstorm and inhaled. Note that "uranium munitions are used by the main US Abrams battle tanks, Bradley Fighting vehicles, A-10 attack aircraft and a host of other ammunition, including bunker busters." Note also that DU "causes genetic mutations and cancer" and ALA specifically protects DNA and "may inhibit the gene that triggers cancer cells to grow" - making it a cancer preventative. The chances of a soldier being exposed to this is much larger than a citizen of the US... that is why I said it would be wise for the entire force to take ALA as a supplement preventatively.

Sara.

-- November 14, 2006 9:54 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi Steve, long time no see.

Yes, unfortunately, the Dinar is sitting where it have been sitting for the last couple of years. Stuck in the mud, however for Okie and Panhandler, the RV have already happened, they seem to be on a party swing right now. Hey, why not.

Yes seems like Israel need Nethanyahu, he's a hawk. About time he would get into power again, he's taking no prisoners, and wont compromise.

We'll see what hits first, the Dinar or Iran.

It seems like every new generation have to go through the same mistakes before they learn. Tell a child to not loose his key, but he just have to loose it, and be locked out, to get it.

It's 1937 or 38 right now.

As when Adolf was around, the world is asleep.

The Jewish world knows, but for the rest of the world, it's Budweiser, a better power chip in the Bronco, Britneys latest marriage and Soap opera.

World, wake up, we have Poland, Pearl Harbor, 9/11, we don't need a couple of Iranian bombs in any city here, in Europe or Israel before we will again re learn, we already know, wonder if it is a case of not believing in what we know?

-- November 14, 2006 11:31 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

Sara: I had colon cancer surgery last year in October, and so far up till now, I'm still cancer free, but, I work by a burn pit, and most of the rubble from the start of the war is in this burn bit, and I've been breathing this crap for over 2 years now. . .where do I find this ALA. . .

Roger: Nah, hasn't really happened for us yet, but we are getting our priorities in order. . .lol. . I need the miles from Dubai to Key West so I can fly 1st class to Thailand. . .And it looks like I'm gonna have to bring my own Olives, they don't have the Big green stuffed olives in Phuket. . . lol

-- November 15, 2006 2:23 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Everyone!
DON'T MISS THE GLENN BECK SPECIAL TONIGHT ON CNN HEADLINE NEWS 6PM CENTRAL 7 EASTERN...

HE COVERS IRAN,IRAG AND THE TERRORIST CELLS AS TO HOW THEY ALL INTERCONNECT...HE BELIEVES ALSO THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT IS GOING TO START A NUCLEAR WAR, SO THE 12TH IMAN CAN RETURN...

THIS IS A DON'T MISS...

SOME EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING IRAN IS BAITING ISRAEL INTO ATTACKING...SOME BELIEVE ISRAEL WILL ATTACK WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS..

The rest of the middle east has been totally silent on the rantings of the Iranian leadership...what do you think this means? I know silence is a sign of agreement in some middle eastern cultures..

-- November 15, 2006 6:54 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

There's a little bit of buzz on the other sites about the 5 Dinar drop in the rate each day.

over the last couple of days, the exchange rate has dropped 5 Dinar each day.

Some are thinking that this signals the beginning of the RV. The thinking is that the CBI is dropping the rate gradually until they decide where to peg.

Be interesting to see if this rate drop continues.

-- November 15, 2006 8:03 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Interesting article on the oil patch in Iraq, especially the part about the increase from 40% to 55% on the PSA (production sharing agreement). I believe this will be the typical agreement in Iraq and is a good method to develop the oil fields. It's a win, win type of agreement. Also very good for the economy and the Dinar.

This is very good news!!

==========================================================================

DNO sees bigger oil discovery

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14 November 2006 (TradeArabia)
Norway's DNO, the first foreign oil firm to drill in Iraq after the invasion, said its oil discovery in north Iraq is bigger than expected and confirmed production would begin in early 2007.

Shares in DNO jumped by as much as 5.6 per cent in early trade as investors cheered plans to launch production in the first quarter of 2007 despite Iraq's sectarian violence and uncertainties over rights to tap its oil riches.

DNO said the Tawke 2 well in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq has tested 3,840 barrels of oil per day, confirming a western extension of its Tawke oil discovery.

'Preliminary results from the well indicate increased reserves,' DNO said in a statement.

DNO chief executive Helge Eide said the company would start production at two of its three wells in the Tawke discovery.

'We are now (planning to) start two of the three wells, so it (daily production) would not be far from 10,000 barrels, but we will not say anything exact now,' Eide said.

DNO also said it was in a process of finalising an agreement with the Kurdistan Regional Government to increase its working interest in the production sharing agreement by 15 percentage points to 55 per cent.

In return for the bigger stake, DNO would provide all of the funding of the project costs, the company said.

DNO, whose main production operations are in Yemen, has a market capitalisation of around $1.8 billion.

'The results from Tawke 2 are very encouraging and confirm the robustness of the Tawke development,' Eide said in a statement.

'We are on schedule to achieve our important near term target to produce the first oil from Tawke during the first quarter of next year,' he said.

-- November 15, 2006 8:38 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger wrote;

The Jewish world knows, but for the rest of the world, it's Budweiser, a better power chip in the Bronco, Britneys latest marriage and Soap opera.

World, wake up, we have Poland, Pearl Harbor, 9/11, we don't need a couple of Iranian bombs in any city here, in Europe or Israel before we will again re learn, we already know, wonder if it is a case of not believing in what we know?

==end of quote==

Seducers put the people to sleep while they steal their wallet, v.irginity, country and lives. All they need is permission - and the American people just gave them that for the next four years..

By the time most wake up, they will have lost whatever the seducers were after first. Let's just hope the taking of lives is last on their wishlist, not first.

I think the first target is to stop any resistance to their moves so they will attack the Bush Administration and their supporters to silence their opposition to their schemes by taking up their efforts and time with "investigations" within the Administration and "investigating" their supporters while attempting to force a pullout from Iraq and simultaneously going after US pocketbooks by increasing taxes. R.ape is so unsubtle.

Churches’ Tax Breaks Challenged - For Helping GOP

From CNS News:

Group Wants Churches Investigated After Election
By Nathan Burchfiel
November 14, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - A group that opposes interaction between religion and government has accused four churches of violating restrictions on electioneering leading up to last week’s midterm elections and asked the Internal Revenue Service to investigate.

Tax law prohibits most houses of worship from endorsing candidates for election because of the tax-exempt non-profit status churches enjoy. The restrictions apply to all tax-exempt non-profit groups, not just churches.

According to Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, at least four churches violated that restriction in the 2006 election cycle.

====

This outfit, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, has a long history of Democrat activism. It has only thrown in mention of some Democrat violations to prove that they are non-partisan. Any Google of their works will disabuse you of that notion.

But of course the left exploits the pulpit a thousand times more than the right does. Again, any Sunday search of the wire service photo outlets will show that.

Every weekend during the now perpetual campaign season you can always find photos of the top Democrats speaking at some church or other, like Bill and Hillary Rodham above.

The DNC plantation couldn’t function without their churches.

This article was posted by Steve Gilbert sweetness-light.com on Wednesday, November 15th, 2006 at 12:01 am.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200611/CUL20061114a.html

But I don't think they are quite so openhanded that they will call in their terrorist friends to bring their bombs to American cities.. yet. They will just "cooperate" with them and help carry their viewpoint into America's livingrooms - giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Note the cooperation with the terrorist news network Al Jazeera:

Al Jazeera Joins Comrades BBC CNN With News In English
From a gleeful Al Jazeera and reported on yahoo, sweetness-light.com:

Al Jazeera English all set to launch
Tuesday 14 November 2006

Al Jazeera’s English-language television news channel is all set to reach 80 million homes worldwide.

At 1200 GMT on Wednesday, Al Jazeera English will begin broadcasting from the network’s main studios in Doha, Qatar.

The first such international news and current affairs channel with its headquarters in the Middle East, it will far exceed the original launch target of 40 million cable and satellite households.

Lindsey Oliver, the commercial director of Al Jazeera English, said: "We particularly appreciate the support that has been shown far and wide with distributors signing up to carry Al Jazeera English on the reputation of the Al Jazeera brand, our stated goals, our on air and off air teams, and without having seen the channel on air." …

Some U.S. cable carriers are adopting a "show-me" policy, waiting to see what sort of reaction the station generates before agreeing to carry it, said Michael Holtzman, a spokesman for the network.

Al-Jazeera English will be available to American customers of GlobeCast, the subsidiary of a French company that offers satellite TV service.

The other companies Al-Jazeera English said it had agreements with are Fision, a digital service that will be available shortly in Houston; Jump TV, which describes itself as "the world's leading broadcaster of ethnic TV over the Internet; and VDC, a service that offers TV on the Internet to about 10,000 customers in the U.S.

The broadcast will also be streamed live on Al-Jazeera English's Internet site.

Across Europe and the Middle East, Al-Jazeera English will be widely available on major cable providers in Britain, Germany, Italy and even Israel.

===
As Steve Gilbert sweetness-light.com posted:

Though this might mean they lose some of their audience, it’s certain that our one party media will be grateful for the help.

It’s clear that getting out the hate America message is more important to them than money.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_en_tv/tv_al_jazeera_english

High treason
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

High treason, broadly defined, is an action which is grossly disloyal to one's country or sovereign. Participating in a war against one's country, attempting to overthrow its government, and attempting to kill its head of state are perhaps the best known examples of high treason.

For the United States, the Constitution specifies the substantive and procedural requirements for treason in Article 3, Section 3: levying war against the United States or adhering to the enemies of the United States, proved by either confession in open court or testimony of two witnesses of the same overt act.

===

International influence

The Treason Act 1695 enacted, among other things, a rule that treason could be proved only in a trial by the evidence of two witnesses to the same overt act. Nearly one hundred years later this rule was incorporated into the US Constitution. It also provided for a three year time limit on bringing prosecutions for treason (except for assassinating the king), another rule which has been imitated in some common law countries. The Treason Act 1795 made it treason to imprison, restrain or wound the king. Although this law was repealed in the United Kingdom in 1998 it still continues to apply in some Commonwealth countries.

===

United States

To avoid the abuses of the English law (including executions by Henry VIII of those who criticized his repeated marriages), treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article Three defines treason as levying war against the United States or "in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort," and requires the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act or a confession in open court for conviction. Congress has, at times, passed statutes creating treason-like offense with different names (such as sedition in the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts, or espionage and sabotage in the 1917 Espionage Act) that do not require the testimony of two witnesses and have a much broader definition than Article Three treason. For example, some well-known spies have been convicted of espionage rather than treason.

The Constitution does not itself create the offense; it only restricts the definition. The crime is prohibited by legislation passed by Congress. Therefore the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States." The requirement of testimony of two witnesses was inherited from the British Treason Act 1695.

Most states have provisions in their constitutions or statutes similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. There have been only two successful prosecutions for treason on the state level, that of Thomas Dorr in Rhode Island and that of John Brown in Virginia although his raid and trial took place in Jefferson County in what is now West Virginia.

In 1964, the anti-Communist activist John A. Stormer wrote a book called None Dare Call It Treason, which unexpectedly sold seven million copies with little or no advertising. The title phrase comes from a 17th-century epigram by John Harington:

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

This phrase refers to treason defined as attempting to overthrow the government. Since its popularization by Stormer, it has been reused and paraphrased many times and has become part of popular culture.

As of October 11, 2006 a federal grand jury has charged American al-Qaeda member Adam Yahiye Gadahn with treason.

-- November 15, 2006 11:06 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

panhandler;

You can buy ALA supplements in health food stores. I was reading a magazine recently which recommended a formula containing ALA. I tried, liked and would recommend to you this multi-vitamin and multi-antioxidant which contains ALA which is available through Amazon.com (and I am sure other places on the net):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FJD2BU/sz-hpc-20/ref=nosim

Immuno-Pro Formula is an advanced daily multi-antioxidant and multi-vitamin. It contains 30 of the finest natural ingredients, including over 20 of the most powerful antioxidants available, in the doses required to be truly effective for preventing cellular damage, enhancing the immune system and promoting good health. Each ingredient has been carefully selected based on extensive published scientific research. Modern lifes pollution, chemicals and processed foods cause our bodies to need a multi-antioxidant as well as a multi-vitamin. Why take a common multi-vitamin when you can have so much more? Step-up to a new level of health protection with Immuno-Pro Formula.

Ingredients. Alpha lipoic acid, Grape seed extract, Green tea extract, Lycopene, Quercetin, Resveratrol, N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC), Turmeric, Sulforaphane, Vitamin A, Beta carotene, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Mixed tocopherols, Folic acid, Selenium, Zinc, Vitamin D3, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, Thiamine, Ellagic acid (pomegranate extract), Lutein, Zeaxanthin, Magnesium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, Vitamin K and Manganese in easily-digested vegetable capsules.

You can also buy ALA by itself as a supplement in larger doses (this formula is 100 mg in three capsules). Since the research says, "Research has shown that 300-600 mg of lipoic acid a day may be safely taken with no side effects.", I aim to take the 300 mg by taking one of these and an ALA (200-300mg) together:

http://www.amazon.com/Natrol-Alpha-Lipoic-Acid-Capsules/dp/B0000DANC2/sr=1-2/qid=1163607944/ref=sr_1_2/103-9705367-2867852?ie=UTF8&s=hpc

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hpc/103-9705367-2867852?url=search-alias%3Dhpc&field-keywords=alpha+lipoic+acid

Carl;

Recently I think it was Chris who posted an article which said that, considering the US past record of pullouts, the Middle East is going to go with the winner. I think that is true. They are silent while they see which way the chips will fall. They are playing the survival game.. winner takes all.

Chris;

I will take a peg anytime.. and the drop sounds like a good indicator.. hope so.

Okie - good article! Always good to see progress..

Sara.

-- November 15, 2006 11:35 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Interesting article on world oil supplies....
===========================================================================
Updated: 3:21 p.m. CT Nov 14, 2006
HOUSTON - World oil production will not begin to fall for at least another 24 years, contrary to doomsday theories that supply is already in terminal decline, a prominent energy consulting group said Tuesday.

Cambridge Energy Research Associates said in a report that the world has some 3.74 trillion barrels of oil left -- enough to last 122 years at current consumption rates and triple the amount estimated by “peak oil” theorists.

The world consumes nearly 85 million barrels of oil per day, with the United States using about a quarter of that, according to the Department of Energy.

“Oil is too critical to the global economy to allow fear to replace careful analysis about the very real challenges with delivering liquid fuels to meet the needs of growing economies,” said Peter Jackson, director of oil industry activity for Cambridge, a Massachusetts-based consultant to the oil, natural gas and electric power industries.

The said the peak in global daily oil production will not come before 2030 and will be followed not by a steep decline, but rather by an “undulating plateau” of ups and downs in output before a gradual dropoff, according to the report.

-- November 15, 2006 11:44 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq says most kidnap victims are free
By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer Nov 15 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - About 70 of the people abducted in a brazen raid on the offices of the Higher Education Ministry have been released, officials said Wednesday, but it was unclear how many remained captive.

Dozens of people were taken Tuesday from the central Baghdad office that handles academic grants and exchanges, with the men handcuffed and loaded aboard about 20 pickup trucks by gunmen dressed in the uniforms of Interior Ministry commandos.

"Most of the hostages were freed, but that is not enough for us. We will chase those who did this ugly criminal act," Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said, as he met professors and students at Baghdad University to show of support for the country's educational institutions. "We regret what happened yesterday. The government's reaction was strong."

Government ministries have given wildly varying figures on the number of kidnap victims in the assault, with reports ranging from a high of about 150 to a low of 40 to 50.

Ministry spokesman Basil al-Khatib said 40 employees were released Tuesday and another 32 were freed Wednesday.

The Higher Education Ministry said the confusion over the number of kidnap victims arose out of the difficulties in determining just how many employees, guards and visitors were in the building during the assault.

Police Lt. Mohammed Kheyoun said "about 15 to 20 persons are still held by the kidnappers. The search for them is under way, and we hope that we will find them in suspected areas in eastern Baghdad."

Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera quoted Maha Abdullah, a woman described as a sister of one of the captives, as saying he and at least 10 other people remained in custody.

"The government's news that most of them were released is false," Abdullah said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

MSM quotes Al-Jazeera all the time. It won't be a difficult thing to let them have their own channel..

-- November 15, 2006 11:45 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

It's not a drop in value, its a slow raise in value of the Dinar.

If the Dinar goes in the direction of 1.470, 1.465, 1.460, 1.455, in value towards the Dollar, it is a RAISE in value. If the exchange number drops, that means you get less and less Dinars for each Dollar, that is a raise in Dinar value.

Might be a normal swing though. The Dinar have been swinging in about the same window for years now, the interesting thing would be if it continues outside of the (so far) allowed window.

-- November 15, 2006 12:32 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Sara.....

Thanks for the good information and links for ALA...think I'll follow your advise regarding dosages.

Sure hope your computer never goes belly up. Your fine mind and hard drive contain a wealth of data that's welcome to all of us. :)

-- November 15, 2006 1:40 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Okie. :)

Get Out of Iraq Now? Not So Fast, Experts Say
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
Published: November 15, 2006

WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 — One of the most resonant arguments in the debate over Iraq holds that the United States can move forward by pulling its troops back, as part of a phased withdrawal. If American troops begin to leave and the remaining forces assume a more limited role, the argument holds, it will galvanize the Iraqi government to assume more responsibility for securing and rebuilding Iraq.

This is the case now being argued by many Democrats, most notably Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who asserts that the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq should begin within four to six months.

But this argument is being challenged by a number of military officers, experts and former generals, including some who have been among the most vehement critics of the Bush administration’s Iraq policies.

Anthony C. Zinni, the former head of the United States Central Command and one of the retired generals who called for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, argued that any substantial reduction of American forces over the next several months would be more likely to accelerate the slide to civil war than stop it.

“The logic of this is you put pressure on Maliki and force him to stand up to this,” General Zinni said in an interview, referring to Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, the Iraqi prime minister. “Well, you can’t put pressure on a wounded guy. There is a premise that the Iraqis are not doing enough now, that there is a capability that they have not employed or used. I am not so sure they are capable of stopping sectarian violence.”

With more American than Iraqi soldiers in Baghdad, there has been mounting frustration on the part of American officials over the failure of the Iraqi government to send sufficient reinforcements to the Iraqi capital, to establish a genuine “unity government” and to effectively challenge the power of the militias, some of whom have infiltrated the very Iraqi Army and police units that the American military is working with.

In essence, the current debate turns on whether Iraqi leaders would be susceptible to the sort of blunt American pressure entailed by troop reductions.

“There is no purely military solution here,” Mr. Levin said in an interview. “They have got to reach a political compromise in Iraq. The leaders have got to make concessions involving power sharing and resource sharing or else this insurgency and the violence continues to spiral.”

“The point of the proposal is to force the Iraqis to take hold of the situation politically,” Mr. Levin said.

But some current and retired military officers say the situation in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq is too precarious to start thinning out the number of American troops. In addition, they worry that some Shiite leaders would see the reduction of American troops as an opportunity to unleash their militias against the Sunnis and engage in wholesale ethnic cleansing to consolidate their control of the capital.

John Batiste, a retired Army major general who also joined in the call for Mr. Rumsfeld’s resignation, described the Congressional proposals for troop withdrawals as “terribly naïve.”

“There are lots of things that have to happen to set them up for success,” General Batiste, who commanded a division in Iraq, said in an interview, describing the Iraqi government. “Until they happen, it does not matter what we tell Maliki.”

Before considering troop reductions, General Batiste said, the United States needs to take an array of steps, including fresh efforts to alleviate unemployment in Iraq, secure its long and porous borders, enlist more cooperation from tribal sheiks, step up the effort to train Iraq’s security forces, engage Iraq’s neighbors and weaken, or if necessary, crush the militias.

Indeed, General Batiste has recently written that pending the training of an effective Iraqi force, it may be necessary to deploy tens of thousands of additional “coalition troops.” General Batiste said he hoped that Arab and other foreign nations could be encouraged to send troops.

Some military experts said that while the American military is stretched thin, the number of American troops in Iraq could be increased temporarily — by perhaps 10,000 or more, in addition to the 150,000 or so already there — by prolonging combat tours.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/15/washington/15military.html?ex=1164258000&en=d8d9acb6caa2200c&ei=5040&partner=MOREOVERNEWS

-- November 15, 2006 3:23 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

to Sara:"........what do you think this means?...."

I think you should listen to your friend Sara's advice on how to secure your eternal destiny. I'm very serious.

Just peaking in and trying to catch the highlights of what I have missed.

Looks to me like this world is in one heck of a mess and don't see any turning back, at this point.

Keep well everyone and have a Happy Thanksgiving. This is the time to draw your family circles in close. It is about the only thing we have real control over. For me, it is what keeps me sane.

Carole

-- November 15, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

If Carl decides to follow Jesus it will be between him and the Lord.
I may speak encouragement toward that path - just as we do sometimes
those we speak to about the Dinar - but the final decision to purchase
some Dinar - or repent of your sins, is an individual one.

I do tend to be outspoken about what I am passionate about,
whether is it Dinar.. or Jesus, and I would be as glad of
Carl's company on the Lord's train as on the Dinar train, but the choice is..
as always, a personal one.

I have always found it curious that a man of war could fight toward a
structure set on a hill to rescue someone.. Bravely moving through the midst of
a terrible battle using hand to hand combat - watching many fall and with death all
around and the sounds of war - blood on his face, ripped clothes and some wounds..
to finally make it to the top..
only to politely knock and wait to see if the person inside will let him in.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hears my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me.

It may have been spiritual battles - but He led captivity captive, taking in war
the spoils due to a victorious King.. and gives the spoils of His efforts to those of us who
will to receive them. Also a curious thing to be given such gifts, by One so Great.

Have a good Thanksgiving, Carole.
Your sister in Christ,

Sara.

-- November 15, 2006 4:52 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole...

I already have darling...already have....See ya at the Pearly Gates...I'll save a seat for ya If I get there first...

If you get there first....Scotch...lite on the Rocks...Steak Rare...Filet will be find Please!

If you don't mind, save a couple of more chairs for some friends of ours...I believe you know them...

Happy Thankgiving!

-- November 15, 2006 5:01 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Carole: Good to see that you are posting, at least, occasionally. I am an insignicant and almost silent member of the Board but I do like to read your posts.

Sara: Please don't think that I am trying to sharp-shoot you but someone is wrong. Christians believe that their religion is the only one and back it up by scripture. The Muslims believe that their religion is the only one and back it up with their life.

What happens to the faith that is following the wrong path. Do they get nothing in the end? Again, someone is wrong-how do you know it is them?

Sara: Again, this is not to criticize anyone's faith-it is a serious question. You always respond in an intelligent way, I hope you have some plausible answer to this question?

-- November 15, 2006 11:01 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Carole, great to see you back where your supposed to be.

-- November 15, 2006 11:45 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

Sara: Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it. . PH

-- November 16, 2006 1:28 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Neil,

That is a very good question.

Let me offer some input.

Take a look at what you want from a faith then evaluate based on the merits:

We're not asked to make a blind faith decision but rather an educated conclusion of the facts.

Do you want to be smarter? choose confuscious

Do you want 72 virgins? after you blow yourself up to advance a Mullah's agenda? The problem is that there is no evidence to confirm and (I understand) that the word used in the translation of the Korran that promises virgins is real close to the word used for "grape". What a hoot that would be if all they get is 72 grapes.

I personally am looking for my faith to result in life after death. I can visit the graves of all the religious icons (to include Mohomad)in history. They are there. Except for one who was raised. I figure if I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with someone to offer me eternal life then I can hedge my bets by believing the guy who raised himself. If he can do it then he can do it for me. Think about why you are invested in the Iraqi Dinar and not the Iranian Rial? We think the the NID will offer us the most profit based on the evidence - not a blind faith decision. I've lost too much money in blind faith investements in stock where I listened to some prognosticator with his own agenda.

As for the others. In the spiritual realm there is an enemy we fight the same way that we fight the one in the sandbox. This enemy has thrown out "counterfeit" religions like the enemy in the sandbox plants IEDs at night. Just like the enemy in the sandbox, the enemy in the spiritual is hoping to harm you by getting you satisfied with a countefeit so you don't find the truth and this is how he plans to destroy you.

The good book tells me that the path to righteousness is narrow and the path to destruction is wide. The wide path has a lot of counterfeits.

The Bible reports - You decide

I'm moving on to the other Dinar sites. I will return if I find any news.

-- November 16, 2006 7:15 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

I hope:
You had the opportunity to see Glenn Beck's Special last night...
If anything you see that the Islamic Extremist have no intentions of peace with Israel, America or any other race or ethnic group that does not live in the stone age century...the only way peace will come is by changing how the Middle East indocrinates their children in schools. The small children are taught at the early age of 2 years up...jews are pigs and apes...and this includes Saudi Arabia...
What else can we expect from this race of people other than a continious stream of bombers, and attacks against the West, Europe....
It truly puzzles me, that we have leaders on both sides of the isle who still think that if we just talk to them and reach some compromise the world will be safe...This is weakness to them...this creates like of respect toward their enemy...they have already devalued the Jewish race by calling them pigs...apes...dogs...that is why they kill so easily and without remorse...to them infidels do not deserve human treatment...this means you...your children...your fellow citizens...etc;;;
Last night Elaine and I did a survey as to whether the individuals at her work place were more interested in information about the terrorist on Glenn Beck's show or other last night programing .... The winner by far was Dancing With The Stars....need I say more about the average American Citizens...

What is the answer?

I believe just as the Jewish survivors of the Germans learned...If someone says they are going to kill you and your race, BELIEVE THEM...then treat them accordingly

Iran has told us what they intend to do...The governmental papers of Iran, have stated today the War and Destruction of Israel is very near...

This should give you a clue about Iran's intentions about Iraq..... Iran has built major highways from the holy city where the 12 Iman is suppose to appear, to the borders of Iran and Iraq. Iran states, the Iman will rule from the center of the old babalonian empire...which is the center of Iraq...
As I have stated, for 1.5 years now, Iran intends to rebuild the Old Persian Empire...and Iraq is the Center in which the Islamic Persian Nation will rein...

-- November 16, 2006 7:18 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Neil:
Every faith has one common theme...a view of how to get on the path back to god...
Each follower of their faith has justified reasons for why they took that path...as you have read on this blog...
I simply say...
Find the path that speaks to your heart, and enlightens your life while here in this realm..that will be the correct path for you...

-- November 16, 2006 8:21 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl.....

Yes, I tuned into the Glenn Beck special last night and it was a good one…should have been mandatory viewing for every American.

Your quest for “what is the answer?” is best answered, I believe, by your training and experience in Law enforcement. I’ve had police friends, and as you well know, their job is to respond to any situation and not get hurt or killed in the process. They’re equipped with training and other goodies like a slap stick, night stick, gun and mace in order to control the situation.

If the situation starts getting out of control they will use necessary and overwhelming force to control it. Heaven help any suspect that attempts to harm an officer or refuse to obey orders.

I believe we need to use our existing “overwhelming force” in Iraq to deal with the bad guys. If this includes martial law and shooting armed thugs on sight…then so be it.
They have to bring the armed Militia groups under control very quickly before they get too big.

-- November 16, 2006 11:01 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Hi all, Been away for a while. Lots of conversation on this site. Good.

Watched Glenn Beck last night. It occurred to me that, on the surface, yes Islamists hate Jews. But I couldn't help but wondering if, on a deeper level, it's just twisted and distorted and projected self-hatred?

I can't imagine there are many Jews left in Iran, not with that attitude. I know there was a small Jewish community in Iran at one time. Years ago, I used to live near the world's largest mall, the West Edmononton Mall, and it is owned by a Jewish family from Iran.

But to truly hate someone, you must know them first. If there are few or no Jews left to get to know there, how can you honestly hate them? How can you hate what you don't really know?

My guess is their "hatred" is a mixture of jealousy, self-hatred, and a twisted religion, all of which combine to find a scapegoat.

Jews are very successful as a group. Other than the luck of oil, Arab Muslims are not. I remember reading once that if you take away oil-related revenue, which is enormous, and combine all the GNPs of middle eastern Arab countries, (excluding Iranians, who are Persians), the combined GNP is less than the value of one Finnish telephone company, Nokia. Not too impressive.

Whereas, Israel is a wealthy and successful country. Starting out without any oil, they very quickly established a standard of living that is the envy of the region.

Often times, when people are not successful, they are filled with self hatred, and turn outward to project that anger.

Islam gives them just such an outlet, since the Qu'aran gives a number of very disparaging references to Jews, calling them "pigs and apes". That is where that phrase comes from.

All of which is quite ironic, of course, because like the New Testament, which is the basis for Christianity, the Qu'aran had it's roots in Jewish teaching. That's why Jesus is featured in the Qu'aran, as a prophet. When Mohammed lived in what is now Saudi Arabia, there were lots of Jews living there, and Mohammed was inspired to write the Qu'aran from reading Jewish writings, and talking to Jewish scholars.

And now Muslims, in a very weird and twisted turn of history, try to murder the very group that helped give inspiration for the creation of their religion in the first place....Very odd.

I'm not saying these people don't hate the Jews. They do. I'm saying their hatred arises out of a mass cultural psychological sickness, arising out of history, and envy and their own incompetance, ineptitude, and failure.

We are dealing with, and at war with, a culture that has large elements of what, displayed in an individual, would be considered mental illness. What I would describe as psychotic delusions seem to form a substantial part of Islamic culture.

-- November 16, 2006 11:07 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Chris, you wrote to Neil some interesting comments, on the supposed "72 Virgins" waiting in paradise.

Yes, indeed, what if, as you said, there was a mis-translation, and all that was offered was 72 grapes? What a hoot!

Or, what about this one? What if, there was another mis-translation, in the Qu'aran, and instead of meaning that when you die, as a martyr, you get 72 virgins, you actually get one, 72 year old virgin?

What a let-down!

Also, consider this:

I read recently that young women who live together in a group, for some time, it turns out, their bodies, on their own, for some mysterious reason not yet comprehended by science, tend to synchronize their various menstrual cycles, combining them, into one common menstural cycle. So when one is is a bad mood, all of them are!

How would this work in Muslim heaven? If 72 women all had "issues" due to natural hormonal fluctuations, how can this be considered "heaven"? What would living with them be like?

I grew up with a bunch of older sisters. I've been married to two fine ladies.

I have to ask, how would all this be good? 72? All at the same time? How would this be "paradise"?

You got me.

Just asking.

Also, if the suicide bomber is female, does she get 72 virgin guys?

Maybe that's why there are so few female suicide bombers. Most women aren't crazy enough to believe such a ridiculous idea!

-- November 16, 2006 11:40 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

On Drudge Report...
An attorney is arguing that having sex with a dead deer is not a crime...

I guess that gives new meaning to the phrase...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! My Deer!!!!!!!!!!

-- November 16, 2006 11:51 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts....

After living in the Middle East for several years I came to the conclusion that most Arabs were a very rare combination of arrogance and ignorance that’s not seen in other parts of the world.

Either one of these traits would hamper you in life but a combination of the two is deadly to the point of an early death or failure to make any progress on this planet. It’s one of the reasons the local Imam can brainwash them so easily.

-- November 16, 2006 11:55 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

I listened intently to some of General Abizaid's comments while appearing before the Senate. His assessment of Iraq ran contrary to what the Democrats wanted to hear.

I did feel encouraged after his reccomendation not to withdraw American forces. In addition, his reccomendation not to split the country is also good news. A strong Iraq is predicated on a strong central government.

We will see how all this unfolds in the coming months?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 16, 2006 12:31 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Tim Bitts,

good stuff

Hatred can be taught and learned. The people who hate would argue that they know enough.

I asked the question about the Female suicide bomber myself. Gotta think she's after the grapes.

I saw most of the Glen Beck special. it was well done. Can't imagine how he got CNN to tolerate a conservative that way but I watch his program - he is the only reason that I would consider turning on CNN.

Some history for those of you who don't know.

In the Old Testament, Abraham and Sarah were promised by God that they would have a son even though Sarah was beyond child bearing years. Rather than wait for God to make good on his promise Sarah offered her servant Hagar to Abraham and told him to make a baby with her. He did, I'm guessing with enthusiasm. They had Ishmael then Sarah got pregnant and they had Isaac. Fast forwarding, we find God banishing Hagar and Ishmael because that heritage route was not a part of His plan. They chose to take matters into their own hands rather than wait on God's promise. God chose to make Ishmael the father of the Arab nations. The heritage blessing then passed to Isaac and the Jews were given the blessing of the land of Israel.

Why is peace un-achievable in the middle East?

It's not the land that is at the heart of the problem. It's the blessing. The Jews say the blessing was passed from Abraham to Isaac and down. The Arabs say that the blessing was passed from Abraham to Ishmael and that makes the land of Israel rightly the possession of the Arabs. Neither side can settle becuase they both believe that they were given the blessing. Since I'm already on the topic. The Bible specifically says that the Arabs will try and push Israel into the sea, which is the same exact wording that we hear these radicals using. Relax, it won't happen.

What can we learn from Abraham?

1. Guys should keep their pants on. You may never know the complete impact of the mistake you are about to make. Imagine if Abraham just said no to Haggar.

2. Keep your Dinar. There is discussion today on other blogs about if it is time to sell with the possibility of troop pull outs. If you think that God might be doing something good for the Iraqi people then hold on. Evil dictators like Saddam finally get theirs. God is patient. Maybe too much so in our estimation. It's been a long time and I have to think that good things are going to happen for the Iraqis

Putting all the rhetoric together from Iran's A-Demon-Jahd. When he speaks to us he wants peace and when he speaks to his own he wants to anniahlate Israel. Maybe he sees both as the same. Maybe the peace he speaks of is Israel pushed into the sea and the Palestinians in complete ownership. It's convoluted but maybe true.

-- November 16, 2006 12:50 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Sorry,

Last post was mine!

-- November 16, 2006 12:58 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I liked General Abizaid's comments while appearing before the Senate...especially where he said he heard no despair in Iraq but when in Washington...that's all he heard.

Folks...this General is a keeper!!

-- November 16, 2006 1:26 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts.....

Definition of PMS..."PACK MY SUITCASE"!!

-- November 16, 2006 1:51 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

A Different Christmas Poem:

The embers glowed softly, and in their dim light,
I gazed round the room and I cherished the sight.
My wife was asleep, her head on my chest,
My daughter beside me, angelic in rest.
Outside the snow fell, a blanket of white,
Transforming the yard to a winter delight.
The sparkling lights in the tree I believe,
Completed the magic that was Christmas Eve.
My eyelids were heavy, my breathing was deep,
Secure and surrounded by love I would sleep.
In perfect contentment, or so it would seem,
So I slumbered, perhaps I started to dream.

The sound wasn't loud, and it wasn't too near,
But I opened my eyes when it tickled my ear.
Perhaps just a cough, I didn't quite know, Then the
sure sound of footsteps outside in the snow.
My soul gave a tremble, I struggled to hear,
And I crept to the door just to see who was near.
Standing out in the cold and the dark of the night,
A lone figure stood, his face weary and tight.

A soldier, I puzzled, some twenty years old,
Perhaps a Marine, huddled here in the cold.
Alone in the dark, he looked up and smiled,
Standing watch over me, and my wife and my child.
"What are you doing?" I asked without fear,
"Come in this moment, it's freezi ng out here!
Put down your pack, brush the snow from your sleeve,
You should be at home on a cold Christmas Eve!"

For barely a moment I saw his eyes shift,
Away from the cold and the snow blown in drifts..
To the window that danced with a warm fire's light
Then he sighed and he said "Its really all right,
I'm out here by choice. I'm here every night."
"It's my duty to stand at the front of the line,
That separates you from the darkest of times.
No one had to ask or beg or implore me,
I'm proud to stand here like my fathers before me.
My Gramps died at ' Pearl on a day in December,"
Then he sighed, "That's a Christmas 'Gram always remembers."
My dad stood his watch in the jungles of ' Nam ',
And now it is my turn and so, here I am.
I've not seen my own son in more than a while,
But my wife sends me pictures, he's sure got her smile.

Then he bent and he carefully pulled from his bag,
The red, white, and blue... an American flag.
I can live through the cold and the being alone,
Away from my family, my house and my home.
I can stand at my post through the rain and the sleet,
I can sleep in a foxhole with little to eat.
I can carry the weight of killing another,
Or lay down my life with my sister and brother..
Who stand at the front against any and all,
To ensure for all time that this flag will not fall."

"So go back inside," he said, "harbor no fright,
Your family is waiting and I'll be all right."
"But isn 't there something I can do, at the least,
"Give you money," I asked, "or prepare you a feast?
It seems all too little for all that you've done,
For being away from your wife and your son."
Then his eye welled a tear that held no regret,
"Just tell us you love us, and never forget.
To fight for our rights back at home while we're gone,
To stand your own watch, no matter how long.
For when we come home, either standing or dead,
To know you remember we fought and we bled.
Is payment enough, and with that we will trust,
That we mattered to you as you mattered to us."

PLEASE, Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S.service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities. Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificed themselves for us.

LCDR Jeff Giles, SC, USN
30th Naval Construction Regiment
OIC, Logistics Cell One
Al Taqqadum, Iraq.

-- November 16, 2006 4:31 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.dinartrade.com

Japan intends to offer a loan to Iraq
Date : 11/16/06

The Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that its country intends to offer a loan to Iraq worths 20199 million Japanese yen for the development of engineering services in Basrah Refinery project and rehabilitating the fertilizer plant in Khor Al-Zubair.

The Foreign Ministry issued a statement yesterday that the Japanese Foreign Minister stressed that despite the withdrawal of his country's troops from Iraq, Japan will continue to support efforts to rebuild Iraq. In the same context, the Japanese Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry, Mr. Akira Amari, said after his meeting with the Minister of Oil, Dr. Hussein Shahrastani, that "Iraq is an indispensable partner for Japan being one of the sources of energy". The two ministers confirmed in a joint statement that deepening bilateral cooperation in these projects would help to strengthen relations between the two countries and to provide for the needs of Japan's energy.

Also, Toyota officials expressed their desire to cooperate with Iraq because of the importance of the Iraqi market; this came during a visit made by the Iraqi Ambassador in Tokyo, Dr. Ghanim Alwan Al Jumaili, to the headquarters of the company and to one of the largest company's factories in the cities of Nagoya and Toyota, according to a statement by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The two sides discussed the cooperation between Iraq and Toyota where the ambassador urged the company's officials to seriously consider returning to the Iraqi market because of the size and potential it represents. He also proposed the idea of establishing a factory for Toyota products in Iraq to serve the general area of the Middle East.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 16, 2006 4:53 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Washingtonian: 'Another Election Winner: The Mainstream Media'
Posted by Michael M. Bates on November 16, 2006 - 12:08.
In today's "Another Election Winner: The Mainstream Media," the Washingtonian's Harry Jaffe begins:

"Except in a few races, the outcome of last week’s midterm election was determined in large part by the Mainstream Media."

To support his contention, he then cites evidence. A major campaign issue was corruption, which was detailed by the Washington Post, the San Diego Union-Tribune and Copley News Service.

The New York Times tapped into voter unease by reporting on "the government’s intrusion into private conversations by secret wiretapping of calls in the name of combatting terrorism."

The Mark Foley scandal broke on ABC News' Web site, but "then other mainstream media outlets advanced it."

Then there was Iraq: "Here the mainstream media—from newspapers to magazines to television—was doing the tough job of reporting the news: the relentless accounts of dead soldiers, bombed buildings, wasted millions."

I have to agree with much of what Mr. Jaffe asserts. The mainstream media did have a major impact on last week's elections. Voters were paying attention to what the MSM served up, day after day, week after week, and month after month.

And that's a reason why the Democrats seized control of both houses of Congress. Like it or not - and I don't - the mainstream media chalked up a major victory on November 7.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9123

My thoughts.. remember the post where I mused on political seduction?

The essence of seduction is to keep the seduced DISTRACTED from the real issues at hand.

What were the real issues at hand that were not really covered without bias in the election?

I think we know.. Iraq, terrorism, the threat to the US, taxes.. the real FUTURE (not a false peace).

America was too busy watching "Dancing With The Stars" - as Carl and Elaine found in their informal survey -

to pay much deep attention to what the REAL needs are in Iraq or for America's good. They listen to what

the made-for-mass-consumption leftist news producers/seducers spoonfeed them.... And make up their

minds from their daily ten minute "summary" of the news which is slanted and biased against conservative views.

Sara.

-- November 16, 2006 4:59 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

$150 million for rehabilitating the Iron and Steel Company in Basra November 14, 2006 - An official source in the Iron and Steel Company in Basra, said last Saturday that work in rehabilitating the factories of rolling and steel in the company will begin early next year after the Ministry of Finance has allocated $150 million for rehabilitation.
The source, who preferred to remain anonymous, said "the Ministry of Finance has allocated 150 million dollars last October for the rehabilitation of the affected sections and suspended from work entirely in the factories of rolling and steel in the company".
He explained that the "reconstruction and rehabilitation will be undertaken by the engineering and technical cadres of the company, depending on the reserve materials available in the local markets and some of the global ones".
He pointed out that "the company had stopped working since the first Gulf War, when it was subjected to aerial bombing that destroyed its important parts and then to looting and vandalism during the collapse of the former regime".
The Iron and Steel Company is one of the large companies in Iraq, consisting of two major factories for smelting and rolling and employs more than 6300 workers who are paid nominal salaries, by the State, currently range between 100 thousand dinars and 300 thousand dinars.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 16, 2006 5:02 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

A recent example comes to mind..

A Picture and Story From Iraq the Media Will Never Share
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 14, 2006 - 03:25.

http://www.image-upload.net/files/15/AAA.jpg

I first received this picture in my e-mail today from our good friend Joe Myers. It contained the following caption:

Chief Master Sgt. John Gebhardt cradles a young Iraqi girl as they both sleep in the hospital. The girl's entire family was executed by insurgents. The killers shot her in the head but she survived. The girl received treatment at the U.S. military hospital in Balad, but cries often. According to nurses at the facility, Chief Gebhardt is the only one who can calm down the girl, so he holds her at night while they both sleep in a chair. Chief Gebhardt was assigned to the 332nd Expeditionary Medical Group at Balad Air Base, Iraq.

After some effort, I found the whole story at Military.com. If this doesn’t bring a tear to your eye, I don’t know what will:

Chief Master Sgt. John Gebhardt, superintendent of the 22nd Wing Medical Group here, recently gained worldwide attention for a photo of him holding an injured Iraqi child. The photo was taken about a month ago, while he was deployed to Balad Air Base in Iraq.

The young infant had received extensive gunshot injuries to her head when insurgents attacked her family killing both of her parents and many of her siblings. The chief had a knack for comforting her and they often would catch a cat nap together in a chair.

The charming story continued:

Now, he is back at home in Wichita, Kan., with his wife, Mindy. They have a warm, hospitable home five minutes away from McConnell Air Force Base. His son Ryan, 25, and daughter Amber, 23, have long since outgrown being cradled and he said he thought about them constantly while he held the Iraqi child.

"I got as much enjoyment out of it as the baby did," he said. "I reflected on my own family and life and thought about how lucky I have been."

Apparently, Chief Gebhardt wasn’t the only selfless soldier in Iraq:

The chief was not alone in volunteering at the hospital. There were more than 800 different volunteers at the hospital during the time he was deployed to Iraq, he said. Some of them volunteered so much that he mistakenly thought they were assigned to the hospital.

Chief Gebhardt had nothing but praise for those America has liberated:

And it is the chief's hope that families in Iraq will receive the same kind of support in the future. They are just like American families, Chief Gebhardt said.

"I pray for the best for the Iraqi children," he said. "I can't tell the difference between their kids and our kids. The Iraqi parents have the same care and compassion for their children as any American."

Somebody pass me a tissue.

COMMENTS:

Ah yes. All together now - for Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, and all the enlightened - Let us cut and run - after all we're the real butchers of Baghdad - right Senator Turbin? And I guess this is also Kerry's grand vision - here's another poor schmo that didn't get a good edjikashun and got stuck in IraK. Let's have another MSM Bush-bash or an Abu-Garib tale instead of a story like this.

TruthMonger Says:
November 14, 2006 - 11:07

...brings to mind all the gleeful prison torture stories, civilian massacre stories, and evil secret prison stories from our pondscum MSM...

Indiana Joe Says:
November 14, 2006 - 00:28

You know, my first instinct was to feel validated. Or maybe "vindicated." But then I realized, WHY should I feel validated? Is my validity based on when and how this type of news manages to leak out to the world?

No, I feel PROUD. Proud of our troops, proud of our country, and yes, proud of myself. Because I knew that this sort of thing was going on. In my heart, I knew it went on all the time. And has for years. Our men and women "over there" have DONE us proud, in so many ways, and at so many times.

I'm just ashamed that I let myself doubt what my heart knew, based on what I DIDN'T see in "the news."

I really should know better than that.....

misterbill Says:
November 14, 2006 - 00:35

Noel, can you send this story and photo to someone like Bill O'Reilly who will bring this to America's attention. It is too good to only be seen by a NBers only. It epitomizes the American serviceman. It belongs on the top of Christmas trees. I don't think I am the only one who feels this way.

TruthMonger Says:
November 14, 2006 - 11:14

P.S. Noel - if you send it to BOR, also try al-jazeera - and please let us know if they have a picture of OBL like this that we might share with America - you know, in the new DNC-led spirit of friendship between decent people and terrorists...

http://newsbusters.org/node/9068

-- November 16, 2006 5:18 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

BAE Systems receives $7.8 million contract modification to manufacture additional Iraqi Light Armored Vehicles November 9, 2006 - BAE Systems has received a $7.8 million Foreign Military Sales contract modification to manufacture 20 additional Iraqi Light Armored Vehicles (ILAVs) from the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command.
The total value of the indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract could reach $445.4 million and 1,050 vehicles, if all options are exercised. Work on the contract is ongoing with deliveries scheduled to continue through May 2007. The first ILAVs were delivered to Iraq 90 days after the contract was awarded.
As prime contractor, BAE Systems - along with subcontractors Force Protection, Inc. and Spartan Chassis, Inc. - will manufacture, test and provide logistics support for the ILAVs.
"We are pleased to provide additional Iraqi Light Armored Vehicles to the U.S. Army destined for Iraqi military forces," Joe Papapietro, ILAV program director for BAE Systems, said. "This is a survivable, mobile, capable light armored vehicle that will help protect allied troops in Iraq."
The 4x4 ILAV leverages proven designs and includes a V-shaped hull designed to deflect the force of explosions away from passengers, according to BAE Systems. The contract modification follows an initial order for 378 vehicles issued in May.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 16, 2006 5:30 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Why is it that the Mainstream Media tend to focus on a tiny minority of troops who have committed crimes (as do some people in the population of ANY country or service, Muslim included) instead of the majority like these 800 plus who are doing useful and helpful jobs serving the Iraqi people?

The art of seduction is distraction from the true matter at hand and going off into rabbit holes - chasing after minor things which are not profitable to the issue at hand - in order to leave room to manoeuver into place for the real strike.

It's just like taking candy from a baby.. distract with a toy (entertainment) or talk about something which turns the attention and focus away from what the fuss is really about and you can take the candy.. only it is done with adults.

Ask yourself.. is this truly representative of the overall picture? If it isn't, you should not be giving it a heavy weight in your mind concerning the topic at hand... or you might find someone reaching into your pocketbook - or trying to sneakily take some other "candy" you will miss far more (freedom, your future, your life or the lives of those you love) - while you are concentrating on these unrepresentative things.

Sara.

-- November 16, 2006 7:18 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Sara:
Bad news sales...people do not want to read about how successful something is..As you well know in the news business.... if it bleeds it leads...Nothing more simplier than that...

It is the News editors and News Program directors who decide what is going to be covered and at what angle....not the poor sap thats reading the dummie prompter...they all have agenda's most are to the left...most have never fired a weapon, seen war, violence, or death up close and personal in their lifes...

They could not get away with this garbage if the American viewership really cared...but they don't...News programs are about 30 sec bites, and news snips....most citizens pay so little attention to the political climate and what is happening internationally, that when something major does happen they are totally shocked...never mind that the event was building for weeks...
I have come to the conclusion most americans today, don't have the stomach for War...and will buckle after a few weeks or months of losing our soldiers...
Unfortunately, that is what soldiers do...they go into dangerous places where negoiations no longer work...they enter into hell, where death stalks everyone...and some lose their life in the process....

-- November 16, 2006 8:18 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

In WW2 they had media coverage of the war.. which did a lot of "our guys are doing this" and support for the soldiers in harm's way.

Why isn't that good anymore?

Can you imagine the mainstream press during WW2 letting the Nazis talk or interviewing their supporters to get their viewpoint?

Can you imagine them showing on the news movies of Nazis taking down Americans in a snuff-type movie?

It doesn't matter if the MSM knows it or not.. they are pawns being used to seduce the American people..

they are not acting in the best interests of America and abusing the right of "freedom of the press".

The loss if the seduction continues could be enormous because, as you perceptively noted, America isn't watching.

Your quote: "They could not get away with this garbage if the American viewership really cared...but they don't...News programs are about 30 sec bites, and news snips....most citizens pay so little attention to the political climate and what is happening internationally..."

That about sums it up.

Sara.

-- November 16, 2006 9:39 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl - I was thinking I should have titled that last post.. "Give me that Old Time news reporting".

Neil;

If you still want me to post to you a reply about Islam and Christianity.. first tell me this.

Do you believe that Jesus was a Prophet from God or that Mohammed was a Prophet from God...

or that both were Prophets from God, or that neither were Prophets from God?

I need to understand your belief concerning the subject you wish to discuss.

Sara.

-- November 16, 2006 9:58 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for your greetings.

Have a few minutes to slip in a post ( while no one is moving "rocks").

I have been thinking and thinking about the elections last week. Because there is something that just doesn't fit.I think I have answered my own question." How could the American electorate, in 2 short years allow this country to go off the slippery slope, when during the presidential campaign there were record numbers at the poles and especially by the " religious right" to see to it that Kerry and the likes of him had no chance to lead and destroy our country?

Well, obviously there are multiple components, but I think one very viable explanation is that the "religious right" did not " show up".

2 years ago, the poles were swayed in favor of the Democrats---right up to the end!! The Demos were sure they were "in". I sat on the edge of my seat, and then watched the amazing turn around on election night, when Bush creamed Kerry, because of the "religious Right" showing up in droves and causing a landslide. Remember?

OK what happened?

Well I believe that the "RR" had the wind knocked out of their sails when it was announced that the head of the Evangelical Council, who has 30 million members in it's realm admitted to serious sexual and moral decay.

While this is one man in millions who betrayed his faith and followers, it had a tremendous impact on election night. It is not that they didn't realize that we were in for a battle of our lives, but they had there feet knocked out from under them. If the news would have come out a few weeks before there would have been time to recover and regroup the thinking and momentum. BUt it didn't!! It came 3 days before the election.

Had that huge mass of people showed up on election night as they did 2 years ago, the outcome would have been tremendously different.

Chrisitans and all people of serious faiths are usually pretty stable and committed.
They are pretty much die-hards. UNLESS their foundation is shaken. They usually always recover, but they didn't have time. I know I walked around in a daze at the news of the creep that defamed a very honorable institution. ANd to be honest with you, if I wouldn't have already sent in my absentee ballot, I can't be sure I would have had enough " emotional energy" to care about the election myself. The sting was too great, and I am too human.

Well that is my take on the pieces that just didn't fit in my thinking.

What do you all think?

-- November 17, 2006 3:25 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Chris and any others:

We have listened to the crazy Kim Jong from N. Korea and the nut from Iran, Ahmadinejad, pour out there threats to the world.

The Iranian nut has been watching the global reaction to the boldness of N. Korea. He is taking careful attention to the impotency of the UN. HE announces to the world that they will contiune their path of nuclear ambitions without fear and continuously announces his intentions to destroy Israel by fire, etc. etc..

The Security Council will bluster and threaten N. Korea and Iran in strongly worded letters, but in the end N. Korea and Iran will bedcome the 9th and 10th nuclear nation.

As for CHristians who believe and take at face value the Bible's prophecies concerning the events that lead to Christ's Second coming, none of these things should be surprising.

Since these are clearly the
"last days", the bible prophets predicted would come, the world"s behavor keeps on fitting precisely into the scenario and combination of actions that will lead to the unveiling of the anti-Christ. It is this combuination of unsoluable problems that will drive the world to rush under his spell, as he solves them through Satan's supernatural powers that will be at his disposal.

The anti =Christ will bring a delirium of hope as he establishes what will appear to be a new age of global peace and prosperity. He will memerize the whole world until in the middle of the specifically predicted seven-year period that immediately precedes the return of Jesus Christ.

Islam shares a belief in the final seven year period of apocalypse where sinful man is judged together with the expectaion of a messiah figure who will come at the end of the age.Ahamadinejad believes that he is the man who will bring this messiah figure back.

The Mahdi, according Iran's state religion, is Mohammad ibn Hasan, the "religious descendant of the prophet Mohhammed", who has been hiding for a thousand years.

His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war, bloodshed, and pestilence. After this cataclysmic confrontation between forces of good and evil, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace.
Ahmadinejad beleives it his duty to put that chaos into the world. He believes he can actually hasten the Mahdi's return.

In the book of Revelation, it says "AND I saw and behold a white horse. He sat on him...went forth conquering and to conqquer."

According to the Qur'an this one on the white horse is the Mahdi.

Christian interpretation of this verse is that this one is the anti-CHrist.

So that is who a nuclear Iran is putting their trust in to see them vicotrious over the infidels ( US, Europe) and the Jews. The Mahdi, a rider on the white horse whose followers wear marks of prostration on their forheads.

It is unlikely that kind of fanaticism will be deterred by the more meaningless Security COuncil resolutions.

Where the Dinar fits in all this?? quien sabe!!

-- November 17, 2006 4:18 AM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

ALL: If anyone is interested, one of my friends just came back from Baghdad, and yesterday he exchange dollars for dinars, and got 1449. . .could be the start of somethin big. . .yeehaw. . .PH

-- November 17, 2006 6:33 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Can ANYONE translate this article? It's new and it's from the CBI...might be important!

http://cbiraq.org/News_Ar-12-2006.pdf

-- November 17, 2006 9:05 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

As an addendum to my last post: Jesus, while on earth gave His followers a list of signs that would ocurr leading to the last days. One of which is "unusual signs in the sky".

This coincides with the "cosmic chaos" the Islamic religion professes.

Through the years many bible scholars believe that when the rapture of the church happens, and millions will disappear " in the twinkling of an eye",.. ... it will be explained as some cosmic phenonmena.

The rapture of the church should not be confused with the Second Coming of CHrist.

Those of us that believe and trust the truth of scriptures are very much aware that we are in the 11th hour of the rapture.
SO PACK YOUR BAGS!!!!

I would encourage those of you who "don't believe", to find out EXACTLY what it is that you don't believe. Because after the rapture, and the Holy Spirit is no longer in the world, it will be near impossible to get through the 7 years of tribulation without taking the mark of the beast. And those who do, will be martyrd for their faith. Not a good time at all!!

That is the "fanatical " message of the Christian Evangelical Church. And why we do so much to point as many humans as possible to Jesus, before it is too late.

This " fanaticism" is very different from Islam that demands conversion by the sword. And has the quest to rule and take over the world.

The Christian message is motivated by love and hope for the human soul, and encourages repentance and acceptance of the One (Jesus) that made it possible for all men to reconcile to The ALmighty GOd.

It is a big gamble and mistake to be wrong on this one!!! And I would encourage all non-believers to take a second look at exactly who this Jesus is. Educate yourselves with an open mind and an open heart.....

Okay, Roger, Carl, Mark etc.... GO FOR IT.. CAUSE I KNOW YOU WILL...... :} :}

-- November 17, 2006 9:12 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Gotta love the guy interviewed at the end of this article that said he didn't even notice CNN missing in the hotels channel line-up. That would have been my response.

Midwest HotelChain Pulls CNN From TV Channel Lineup in Guest Rooms Over Iraq Sniper Video

By ALAN SCHER ZAGIER
COLUMBIA, Mo. Nov 16, 2006 (AP)— A Midwest hotel chain has pulled CNN from the TV channel lineup in its guest rooms, saying the cable network was aiding terrorism with the broadcast of a video showing Iraqi snipers shooting at U.S. troops.
The broadcast, which aired Oct. 18 on both CNN and CNN Headline News, featured edited portions of a tape the network said it obtained from a rebel group called Islamic Army of Iraq.
The video crossed the line from journalism to propaganda, said James Thompson, president of the Iowa-based Stoney Creek Hospitality Corp.
"It was shocking and repulsive," he said. "Their actions supported terrorism."
Guests at the Stoney Creek Inn's 10 properties in Missouri, Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin can still view Fox News, MSNBC, CNBC and other cable news channels.
Supportive comments from guests have outnumbered complaints by a 3-1 margin, Thompson said.
A network spokeswoman did not immediately return telephone calls seeking comment Thursday. A CNN producer previously defended the report as an attempt to show the "unvarnished truth" about the Iraq war.
The video, which first appeared on "Anderson Cooper 360," shows uniformed U.S. soldiers mingling with Iraqi civilians in a public area. An American gunner is seen standing guard in a turret atop a U.S. military vehicle.
After the insurgent sniper confers with a spotter presumably the person operating the video camera a shot rings out. After a fade to black, the soldier in the turret slumps forward as the sniper's car drives away.
In a CNN Web log entry defending the segment, producer David Doss wrote that the network excluded the "actual impact of the rounds" because "a number of us felt airing that precise moment was simply too horrific."
Only portions of the rebel-supplied tape which CNN said featured a total of 10 sniper attacks were included as part of a broader news story that also featured interviews with a U.S. sniper in Iraq and a network military analyst, Doss noted.
Thompson called his response "a moment of conscience." He said the decision to yank CNN and CNN Headline News from his hotels is permanent.
The company has hotels in Columbia and St. Joseph, Mo.; Des Moines and Waukon, Iowa; East Peoria, Moline, Quincy and Galena, Ill.; and La Crosse and Wausau, Wis.
The CNN report also raised the ire of several Republican lawmakers, who asked former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to bar network reporters from traveling as embedded journalists with military units in Iraq.
On Thursday, opinions among guests were mixed at the Stoney Creek Inn in Columbia, a central Missouri college town.
Dennis Cunningham, a retired factory worker from northern Missouri staying at the hotel for several weeks while his wife undergoes brain surgery, said he supported Thompson's decision.
"I agree with him. I think it was inappropriate," Cunningham said. "We don't need to see things like that over here."
Cunningham was not aware of the hotel's decision until told by a reporter. Neither was Peter Cain of St. Louis, who like Cunningham ate breakfast near the hotel lobby as the Fox News Channel played in the background.
"If he's trying to make a statement, then why doesn't he make it known?" said Cain, referring to hotel owner Thompson. "I didn't even notice (it was missing)."

-- November 17, 2006 11:13 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Carole

Good posts. Good stuff.

Pack your bags? You can't take your Dinar with you or pull a U-haul thru the pearly gates. Sorry but I don't even think the make up kit will pass thru heaven customs.

Your reference to moving rocks threw me.

Didn't know you were doin hard time?

Slow day for the Dinar folks.

Good day to move some rocks!!!

-- November 17, 2006 11:26 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Chris, you would have to go back a few weeks to catch the "rock" thing.

Not really worth your time or bother. Some will understand, but it really isn't important.

I don't understand the significance of panhandler's comment about the dinars boought by a frined in Bagdhad. I suppoase it could be a black market thing. I understand there is alot of that going on there.
I think that will become more of an every day thing as the dinar moves closer to revalue. Even see some of it going on around me. As it becomes harder to get the dinars the closer it gets to RV people will pay more knowing( or hoping) for the big return on thier money.

I plan on cashing in my first few million as soon as it hits, no matter what the value, cause I at least want to make alittle on this most nerve racking event of my investment life. That is providing the Rapture doesn't happen first!

I wished I couold leave notes for those left behind, to tell them where to find it, so they don't think it is monopoly game money!:}:}

-- November 17, 2006 12:22 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole;

You said the election loss could be attributed to: "the "RR" had the wind knocked out of their sails when it was announced that the head of the Evangelical Council, who has 30 million members in it's realm admitted to serious sexual and moral decay."

If that is the case, I think the moral majority was looking at a non-representative incident and basing their discouragement on one battle. The WAR should not be lost because of one setback. If all it takes is one or two revelations of sinfulness within the ranks of those who claim Christ as Savior to lose the entire ballgame, then the enemy can use that strategy again.. because I don't think every one of the rest of the Evangelical Community are lily white and pure... and the enemy works very hard to make sure he gets the leaders to fall - they come under greater temptations than the average person. Once he has them, the next step is open disclosure.. and the Democrats will just use similar incidents in their favor again.

What it comes down to in my view is the ISSUES and where people stand.. (like - what will happen to your taxes.. will they vote for or against moral issues, what is their plan for security of the homeland - their plan for Iraq and the troops, etc) it is THOSE things we should looking at when voting people into power. If it is a question of voting in a person like Foley who struggled with homosexuality and knew firsthand that it is a sin and trap to those in its grip and voted and stood against what he knew was wrong even though he struggled with it himself, ... OR voting for a Liberal whose record shows they are pro-homosexual with an anti-family, anti-life, anti-moral, and anti-American agenda.. I would still vote for Foley. Not because he is moral or right in himself.. but because he is standing in the correct position and voting it, even if he isn't doing it. It is the ISSUES not the people we need to work our votes by.. not the passing actions of men. In similar manner, Martin Luther said that a person taking the Communion from the hands of a priest who was known to be sinning was alright because such a person was honoring the Communion and Lord, even if the person administering it was sinful and out of touch with God. The point was to look PAST the person to the higher question involved - honoring the Lord.

If we are swayed by men's actions, the enemy will just work his strategies to create hypocrites and then by that discouragement he will know he can get his choices into power and bring about chaos and evil ends against faith, morals, family and country. I long ago stopped looking at the adherents of a religion to place my faith in.. it is their Prophet or Leader who is the one you are following - not the guy standing in the pulpit preaching the Leader's views. In the Evangelical's case, they should be sticking to our Leader Jesus' views.. even if the guy in the pulpit falls. There will always be hypocrites, defections and those who fall away.. that is prophecied in the Bible.. but we must not let them be our focus, but only Christ and His standards. If what you are saying is correct, all this showed is that those who did not vote or changed their vote had their eyes on MEN and were following them, not God. They could be shaken because they followed and had their eyes on MEN. Such people need to review who they place their trust in and whose standards they find supreme.. was it the head of the Evangelical Council.. or God? Faith needs to be settled firmly on the ROCK of Ages rather than placed in the personalities and personal lives of fallible men behind the pulpits.

Isa 2:22 Cease yourselves from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for of what account is he?

Sara.

-- November 17, 2006 1:40 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Carole,

9 months ago I had a break in. The theves got my lock box with my Dinar. Somewhere there are 3 Mexican gentlemen playing monoploy with my first 2 mill Dinar, watching my plasma screen tv that they took the wrong remote for. I doubt they know what the bills are.

I enjoy that fact that when they want to change the channel on the TV, they have to put down the Corona and get up to push the buttons.

3 men with no remote. That's unbearable pain.

-- November 17, 2006 3:25 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

Chis,
How do you know it was Mexicans?

All,
The false christ will come first, before the true Christ comes. The false christ is the serpent, that tree that was in the garden, the deceiver, Satan, Lucifer, Desolator, and many other names. He will be cast out of Heaven to the earth De-Facto. Anti- christ means instead of Christ. He will present himself as the messiah, and he will appear as the lamb, but he is an imposter, and yes he will ride the white horse too, and he's supernatural, the Jews will receive him, the Islamics will receive him, and the rapture seekers can't wait to get on his ship. Yes he will have it all worked out, but the good news is he will be exposed by the true Christ.
I for one am ready to stand and wait for the true Christ, and I'm not looking to cut-and-run

Carol,
So sad to see you have already been programed for deception, don't worry you'll have lots of company.

-- November 17, 2006 4:41 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Carole...

Jesus was a good man...everyone should pay attention to what he said about how you should live on this planet with one another..
No argument on my part...

-- November 17, 2006 6:21 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Just for a break..

===

Asked to write a composition entitled, "What I'm thankful for on Thanksgiving,"...little Timothy wrote, "I am thankful that I'm not a turkey."

===

"Always be a first rate version of yourself, instead of a second- rate version of somebody else." - Judy Garland

===

Apathy is the worlds fastest growing disease. But who cares?

===

"While modern technology has given people powerful new communication tools, it apparently can do nothing to alter the fact that many people have nothing useful to say." (Lee Gomes)

===

Unquestionably there is progress. The average American now pays out approximately twice as much in taxes as he formerly got in wages.

===

Blowing out the other person's candle won't make yours shine any brighter.

===

Some folks demand the benefit of the doubt when there isn't any.

===

Be kind to unkind people...they need it the most.

===

One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness; it usually comes back to you.

===

"Before you put on a frown... make absolutely sure that there are no smiles available." - Jim Beggs

===

Some people, no matter how old they get, never lose their beauty, they merely move it from their faces into their hearts.

===

You can't get anywhere unless you start.

===

We can give advice but we can't give the wisdom to profit from it.

===

Don't pray for rain if you're going to complain about the mud.

===

Enjoy Your Thanksgiving...

May your stuffing be tasty...

May your turkey plump,

May your potatoes and gravy

Have nary a lump.

May your yams be delicious

And your pies take the prize,

And may your Thanksgiving dinner

Stay off your thighs!

===

All the President is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing, and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway.

Harry S. Truman

====

Once I got angry at the chef of an Italian restaurant. So I gave him a pizza my mind.

===

Christian Bumper Sticker: Men try to fix problems with duct tape. God did it with nails.

===

President Bush said today that he is listening to the Democrats in a new way... without wire taps. ~Jay Leno

===

QUESTION: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

ANSWER: One. But the light bulb has got to want to change.

===

-- November 17, 2006 9:04 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carole and Valerio have waded in (with others adding some additional comments) concerning the prophetic interpretations which many in the Christian Community believe about an imminent return of Jesus Christ. They believe that we are presently living in the time of the fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy.. and they may be right. I would not wish to be on the wrong side if it is about to happen so I, too, will be prepared before God in case they are correct. However, if it isn't destined to happen right now and doesn't happen for another thousand years (or two or ten or longer still).. then what?

I think the message which should be emphasized is that it is important to get right with God because no man can absolutely know if he has even the rest of this day to live. Life can be long.. or short. Since life is uncertain and eternity an absolute certainty we all must confront - it is these eternal questions which all men must ask about and find the answers for in their own lives. I believe these issues should be emphasized, not current events and current biblical prophetic INTERPRETATIONS.

During the FIRST Gulf War, all these scenerios spoken of here were also brought out.. but did not come to pass. Predicting when God will choose to cause these events to happen which are predicted in the Bible is harder than predicting when they will peg the Dinar.. and about as elusive, historically. If men are rightly to have a good "fear" of God (which means a healthy respect for His authority - like children should have of the principal of the school, or a police officer, etc) it should be based on their confronting eternity - not facing the prophetic interpretations of men which may be proven wrong.

The reason I say this is that IF the Biblical prognosticators are looking in the wrong crystal ball or reading their tea leaves wrong and a they give someone a feeling and sense of fear and concern about their eternal destiny because of those (incorrect) prophetic interpretations... then, when the expected and prophecied event does not happen, those people they spoke so certainly to may feel a sense of security that it is all a false alarm and turn away from dealing with the real questions of life - God and eternity.

If evangelical prophetic interpreters base their preaching/teaching on stirring up what proves (in time) to be temporal and false fears instead of emphasizing the unchanging, true and healthy concerns the Word of God brings up about mankind's eternal place before God... IF the current temporal events are DISPROVEN to be referring to these Biblical events in the Bible - it could cause souls to be disillusioned with the Evangelical tea reading and eject from themselves not only those false interpretations but the eternal TRUTHS.. truths which men should deal with - such as accepting Christ as Savior and being ready for eternity before God.

It is for this reason that I think it a disservice to the cause of Christ to exalt and bicker over the truthfulness of these endtime interpretations. Christians should not be pointing people to temporal events but getting them to look toward God for salvation from all calamities - temporal and eternal. There is safety from all these dire prophetic events in the loving arms of Jesus.. both for time and eternity. But even if these prophecies do not come to pass imminently, the need for assurance of our eternal safety from death and the bedrock assurance of having eternal life in Christ is absolutely necessary and imminent for each one of us..

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Joh 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

Quite a promise that whoever believes in Jesus will never die (eternally).. isn't it? This promise of ETERNAL LIFE is surely good news.. and more important than differing interpretations of current events and whether the antiChrist is or isn't, etc..

Sara.

-- November 17, 2006 9:49 PM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Carole: I'm not usually into name calling, but for your information, not everyone in Iraq is a crook. . .the friend I have walked into a bank and exchanged his dollars into dinars, and the significance for those of you who happen to be in the North American continent and elsewhere, the banks in Iraq have been exchanging between 1470 and 1490IQD to the USD. It's pitiful that some people are so narrow minded as to think that anyone other than themselves are nothing more than common thugs. . . I truly enjoy this site when people are talking dinars. . .and I enjoy supporting our troops as well. . .

-- November 18, 2006 12:21 AM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Sara,
Why don't we all hold hands and sing Jesus loves me, and never talk about that stuff that is such a disservice. Matter of fact why don't we just take that stuff out of the Bible? It's just too scary.
First of all Sara, I was not talking about current events, or the roll current events are playing. I do know that all things lead to the comming of the Lord. Secondly, these thing are not feared of Christians, we pray we may see it in our day, and if not we pass on the oil so our children can have light in their lamps. Thirdly, what good does it do to preach salvation in Christ over and over to those who have already received it? After that we move on to the edification, and the manifestation of the truth, to be brought into the full knowledge so that we might be spiritual wariors fully armed with salvation, righteousness, and the sword of truth.
I have read all your postings going way back, and you are quite intellegent, and well versed in scripture. Keep studying and searching, there is a deeper understanding.

-- November 18, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hi All,

Lets see, whatawegot, ok Carole is back, wanting me, Carl or Mark to throw stones at her, and the Dinar have moved a couple of points.

Valerio is doubting the ethnicity of the burglars at Chris place, and wee seem to have an opinion that (according to Valerio) Carole is miss programmed regarding the Anti Christ.

The Japanese wants to get in on the oil deals, and we should respect Jesus ways.

Carole didn't get the significance of the exchanged money panhandlers friend did, and there is an article in the new CBI official site that is in Arabic, and no English translation.

Ok I don't speak Arabic, but I think I can help Carole.

1. Panhandler
2. Friend of panhandler
3. Iraq Dinar
4. Exchanging Dinar for Dollar.

Panhandler (1.) have a friend (2.) his (1.) friend (2.) went and exchanged his Iraqi Dinars (4.). When he (2.) did so, he (2.) got an exchange rate of 1449 for his Iraqi Dinar (3.), and Panhandler (1.) told us about it.

Hope it helps.

About Jesus, and AntiChrist.

I doubt any Christian would even recognize someone that would truly save your souls. In your eyes he is so damn holy, you couldn't see if he would come on a Harley, tattooed, smoking two packs of Camels a day. He would just give up on "MSM Christianity" , get a couple of followers that really would dig him, and get the idea, and take off to Nirvana laughing their lips off as their Harleys, run into the sunset.

I've seen people surviving because they set up their own rules and regulations. There is no spirit in it, it's a panic to not break any rules (and go to hell). I've seen people that have a really comfortable life, they have agreed to everything there is to agree, timeschedules, order of events, size and make of what they have.

They are very successful in their choirs, everything has it's place.

They know that if they go with the (book) rules, they will be successful, and they have driven this to an absurdum.

The papers are all filed, the shoes are lined up, mom have dinner ready, and no kids are to talk when they are eating, the fishing and relaxation is done on Saturday. The weekly and monthly schedule is marked on the calender, and this guy is really successful.

Well, there is no spirit even present in it. Exchange the location of his evening newspaper with the location of his sunglasses and he will throw a fit. The guy will go insane if he's wrist watch stops.

All the stable things in life, all the things he is depending on will immediately fall apart.

That's where Christianity, have dropped down to. Be, do or have something not in line with the Christian rulebook and you're doooooooooomed.

Christianity lost it's spirit probably very quick, and as Islam , today it's a matter of whipping the non believers in to line.

It's so damned important that I'm convinced of your ways, so even though I'm interested in Dinars, we have to deal with your Christian ways, aspects, and possibly my souls salvation right here and now.

In the same way as we all are objecting to why we have to spend our time to have a choice of Spanish or English when we go to our ATM machine, what intrusive behavior, like illegal immigration, is doing to us, it's not an issue when it comes to this Dinar site.

So when others are doing it to us, we're upset, but when Christianity is eeeeendlessly discussed on this Dinar site, we must instead always agree to our amendments, to our respect for religion, and all that.

So, now we have all ensured you that we respect religion, that we know of all the amendments.

That exactly the issue that will deaden any objections about it.

So without any hesitation, next postings are right back to how Jesus will save me.

Do you expect me to join in your religion, when you are the prime example of how arrogant members of that religion are.

We have been over this over and over again, religion is ok, free speech is ok.

THAT is your litmus test for you, to believe you have the certificate of right, and, the fact that discussion about Dinars is the issue on this blog, you just have a holy calling, knows better and believe you are doing it for my souls benefit.

This is pretty obvious.

1.You have invested in Dinars, and have therefore showed a legitimate interest, and belonging to where Dinars can expected be discussed.
2. You are of Christian belief, at the same time, and want others to see your truth.

So on this Blog, this is your priority.

1. Profess your Christianity, as priority number one.
2. Toss in something about the Dinar on occasion.

This could easily be solved by either go to a site, where the Christian aspect of everything in life can be discussed, or create a site where the Dinar and Christianity can be discussed.

KEVIN,

This site is crashed endlessly by Christian party crashers. Perhaps you can create a site, called :"Christian aspect of Investing in Dinars" or something similar.

That will make everybody happy, there is evidently a need for a site like that.

I'm interested in Astronomy, and on occasion there is such a thing as a star gazing party. Everybody bring a telescope, and usually there is a lecture by a seasoned astronomer. Then everybody goes out on a prearranged field, or mountain top, and start gazing through their telescopes.

In a stargazing party, THATS what they are doing.

I'm absolutely convinced, that probably the majority of the participants are more sympathetic to Christianity than anything else, but I have never been to a stargazing party where the whole topic gradually swings into Christianity. I can imagine, when there is about 50 people out there looking onto the universe, following their charts, and doing it with big interest, one of the participants, would start professing Christianity, the grandeur of Gods creation, and urging the participants to a prayer meeting.

KEVIN, this blog is selling itself as Dinar discussion, that is what pulls people into the blog, that's the topic.

I suggest you create a site for Christian aspects of Dinar investments, I can assure you Kevin, I will be on that site on occasion too, and I will wholeheartedly speak my spiritual beliefs. It would actually be fun, but......I would do it THERE.

-- November 18, 2006 12:57 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

What you are describing is legalism.

Jesus himself condemned the religious leaders of his day of judging his own followers unjustly.

Legalism removes freedom of expression.

How can one show love of God, if others are setting up the rules for one's love of God conduct?. May it never be.

Jesus spoke to this himself. He said, who among you has the right to judge my servant but God?.

In as far as folks who do not fit into the box of being God's servant, then this is ultimately between you and the Lord.

I only know, what everyone here knows that the good news of salvation has been proclaimed in this blog.

What you do with this information is again up to the hearer.

I too Roger have felt a certain amount of real regret over the pressure placed upon others who are not professing Christians on this blog.

To me, Christians are suppose to be ambassador's of the Lord's Word and gracious in the gospel's presentation. This is the true spirit of Jesus.

Where this spirit is lacking--I truly apologize for the messager. Please look to the message only.

We are all fallen creatures from grace. None of us prefect.

Carl,

Jesus is more than a man. He is the eternal God.

I know you can search the scriptures concerning this truth. For I am telling you the truth.

Sara,

Your writing about coming events is right on! Every Christian needs to put his or her trust in the Lord Jesus only. The future will take care of itself.

Laura

-- November 18, 2006 2:30 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

All,

I want to bring to everyone's attention the 11/15/06 Iraq Weekly Status Report (Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs US Department of State).

One of the items of interest is that oil production has been down from October 30,2006-November 6-12th, 2006.

The grid (in the report) shows production of oil 1.79 and 2.05 millions of barrels of oil per day compared to normal production of approx. 2.30 barrels per day.

As to the reason why production of oil is down is anyone's guess. I haven't read the entire report as of yet.

Another interesting piece of information is that the Central Bank's US Dollar (USD) Currency Auction is showing an informative grid in this report since January 3, 2006.

"Since September, the Central Bank has begun slowly appreciating the dinar, as suggested by the IMF, to tackle rampant inflation over the past year. This important and welcome appreciation accounts for the downturn in the dinar exchange rate, as shown in the grid from January 3, 2006-November 14, 2006."--a direct quote from the report.

--This report is giving an economic review of the economy for Iraq. On economic news the report gives: bonds sold; HSBC banks opened; Employment of Iraqi Contractors; Agriculture Sector; Crude oil production; Crude oil exports and revenues; refinery production; national stock levels.

The report also covers other ministries (departments of the Iraqi government too).

--I found it by clicking on to the dinars at top of this blog.

Happy reading!

Laura

-- November 18, 2006 3:35 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Laura:
Never said he was not more ...but that still does not change the fact...he was a good man...too bad the Jewish Scribes took a dislike to his stealing the accolades of power from them and their faith....they would not have murdered him otherwise...think about it...if the Roman courts had told the Jewish Boy's to kiss off...Jesus could have married mary, had a gagle of kids, started a construction business, wrote a best seller on HOW TO TRAVEL WITH YOUR BUDDIES WITHOUT SPENDING A CENT OF YOUR OWN MONEY, and probably been that part of the world's Donald Trump.

But Noooooooooooooooo! the Jewish Scribes had to pitch a hissy fit about Jesus hurting their image of holiness and not giving them the respect THEY thought was due them and THEIR religion...Sooooooooooooo! they moaned, groaned, wimpered, spit,cussed, wrote Jewish scripture to the Romans,stomped their little tootsies, until they got tied of hearing how Glorious, and almighty THEIR GOD and religion was....

The Roman's said, Look! I am tired of really hearing this little religious spat you got going here with this fellow who travels and sleeps with 12 other men ....you people are starting to give us a BC Powder headache here...Don't you have some doves, goats, sheep or cows throats you need to cut?....

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh! you want to cut this wanderer of the valley's throat...but why???....the people seem to like him,....he has excellent communication skills...knows where to put his hands on people to make them feel good...now that must have some value...how about talking to him about being a fund raiser for ya...give him and his hoodies a percentage that makes it worth while for them and you might be able to get along...Rodney King encourages that ya know...lets all be friends and love one another here folks...this part of the desert is big enough for us all...everybody has a mission here and your momma is going to be happy too...Oh! and can you guys tone it down on the Blog "Chaorit and Barter" with your Jewish scriptures...we are starting to get some compliants about it..You guys just don't get along with anyone who doesn't fall in line with your way of thinking do ya ?

Oh! Well! if you want to kill him,just to save your little religious kingdom so be it...but you know what is going to happen don't ya?...The people who like this here, fellow is going to call him a God and start writing stuff about all the miracles and magic stuff he has done while on his road tour...now you are really going to have a religion thats going to give your children, their children, their childrens children, and the rest of the little souls coming on board earth a BC POWDER headache....in fiquring out who has the best, the brightest, the prettiest,..the sweetest..God to follow...Hell! why not just stay with the Golden Cow...it don't move, it cleans up easily, and never gives you any advice that makes to much sense...but its something to do on a Sunday when the colliseum is closed....

What did you say his hame was... Roger...no! Carl! No! Mark! No! Luke! John!... well what is it then...speak up folks....we have to make this crap of a charge up in someone's name, in order to execute the arrest...

What! you're going to get a fellow named Judas's to point him out...

thus the end result is what we see today.....(just my version of what may have happen long ago that now keeps us so entertained and fingers so busy)

-- November 18, 2006 6:59 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Roger: Gotta love ya. . . you just made "rotflmao". . .can I get an "AMEN"

-- November 18, 2006 8:11 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Valerio,

No - I'm not sterio-typing

The 3 gentlemen who robbed me were seen by other construction workers and were followed by an off duty police officer who thought they were acting suspicious after the robbery. All identifed them as Hispanic. The police know who they are. They're part of a known ring that operates in the neighboring county. My house was an expansion of their business into my county.

Why have they not be arrested?

Guess I'll never understand police work.

I would never have assumed any people group. I'm willing to welcome anybody until they kick in my door and steal my stuff.

Could have been worse. My son was sick that day and almost stayed home from school. They used a spotter. My wife went to the grocery store, came back in hour and it was over. Had my son been home then they would have encountered him. Who knows what weapons they may have been carrying.

I'm guessing from your "Handle" that you may be Hispanic. Maybe the worse thing is this reflects poorly on those who are honest and just want to work to get ahead. The bad ones method of "getting Ahead" is not acceptable in our society and those are the ones that need to be sent back home.

-- November 18, 2006 11:37 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Just finished reading thru the rest of the posts.

Are we Pre-RV are what? Lot's of crankiness.

Roger,

There are times when there is just no info on the Dinar to be had. I look. If we decide that no other topics are to be discussed then there will be times of no postings. We will then wonder if anybody is still paying any attention. I would rather the other discussion and know that people are on in case something significant happens that I missed than see no postings.

My Mouse has a scroll wheel and I use it. I don't read everything

So what's the problem?

-- November 18, 2006 12:05 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Sorry,

Forgot the "token" Dinar discussion

Not much info out there except the exchange rate continues to drop now at 1446NID:1USD

There is some discussion around the concept of a "creeping" RV that would gradually RV to a pre-established rate. Someone pointed out that a "Creeping" RV is a contradiction in terms.

The only thing I know is that the rate continues to drop every day.

Some think we will be at 1350 by the end of the year.

Since nobody else is posting, I can only assume that all of you are glued to the TV to see Tom Cruise get married or anxious about the interview with "The Juice".

-- November 18, 2006 1:38 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger:

I'm here to stay so get used to it.

And while you're at it, have your "mommy" make you some hot chocolate and cookies
( and change your diaper) and I'm sure you will feel a lot better,and will quit your whinning....

GROW UP!

-- November 18, 2006 2:09 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Valerio:

I really enjoyed your last post. Thanks for sharing!

-- November 18, 2006 2:11 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

I get the feeling that you are not reading my posts or takingthem ot of context, cause I agree with everyting that you say.

But the issue is not what we are supposed to do... it is what we end up doing. The fall out from the RR reaction to the bad news should not have happened, but I think it did. Or at least that is my guess.

And I am not into predicting the time and date that the rapture will appear, but you have to be a little shortsighted not to know we are more than likely in that era.

The book of Revelation, Ezekiel, Daniel and many other biblical writings are as important and relevant as John 3:16.

To ignore them and not proclaim them or dig for their meanings, is not what I think is the way to go.

Again you try to rationalize scripture to make others feel good. If your neighbors house was on fire, would you try to rationalize the theory of thermodynamics or run like hell to try to save them? Even yank them by the hair to get them out of peril?

When you give CPR do you go gently, or break a rib if you have to , in order to get the heart beating again?

Get my drift?

-- November 18, 2006 2:22 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Panhandler,

Was definietly not suggesting that your friend was a thug. I just didn't understand your comment., and had read on another site about the black market trends on foreign currency. I guess poeple do this to avoid the tax liabilities.

Also, recently I had discussion with the family "Real Estate " guy who said that he was approached to sell some of his dinar on the side, once it RV's.

Sorry if I offended you, really didn't mean to.

-- November 18, 2006 2:31 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Carole...
Sometimes the neighbor has set the fire for insurance purposes and don't want anything saved...

The person you are giving CPR too, has just 30 minutes earlier taken 300 pills and gargled with Vodka to make sure the cocktail works, as they don't want to be around anymore...and here you go prolonging the transition..

Sometimes good intentions are considered to be intrusions and resented when not requested. When they react...Then you look in bewilderment at them and state...I was only trying help...why are you so pissed?

That is why my grandparents said...before you assume something, and take action...be polite...Ask May I?

-- November 18, 2006 2:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Chris,

I've been on this blog for some time now, I'm most appreciative on most subjects, and are myself willing to get in on them if and when conditions are right.

Again, when it comes to religious affairs, I've been there, and that subject is as good as any subject.

The point being is on a Dinar site, the main subject is by some reason religion.

If it is a Dinar site, and advertised as such, well, I could suspect that this would be the issue here.

If I'm sold on the ad on a new movie, I go to the cinema, and when watching the movie, four people are constantly talking on their cell phones, and they are talking with each other, and they are talking loud, what would you do?

I'm expecting to see the movie.

If there is a car show in town, and I'm interested to go to a car show, seeing cars, talking cars, lifting the hood of cars, and talk with the owners, asking them what they have and what performance their cars have, do I expect to go there to have my soul saved?

I'm expecting to see and talk cars.

In the classroom the teacher is teaching the class in different subjects. Imagine the teacher in the math class is trying to save the students soul instead?

I'm expecting to see math teached.

Imagine an intensive debate in NASA when the technical engineers are having a discussion trying to solve a problem with one of their probes out on Mars. Five of their engineers suddenly feel an urge to talk about Lord Jesus Christ, and divert the session into a religious come together.

They're expected to stay on the topic, and solve their problem.

In all occasions, in the NASA session, the math lecture, the car show, or the movie theater, there WILL of course be comments about something irrelevant, but it will stay on course.

I honestly do believe there is a need for a blog that relate to the Dinar, where religion is involved and connected to it.

Me, I have a hard time connecting a bicycle pedal, relief valve, snow shoes, fuel gauges, or currencies to an endless proclamation of Gods Holiness, but some people can, and therefore I would think it would be good for that crowd to have their own blog.

The problem with Islamic fundamentalists, that don't negotiate, as well as many convinced Christians, their belief have always on religious grounds, the highest priority, and they can take over a site, or blog, in any subject, and use it for their purposes.

If party crashers crashes a party, we call them party crashers, but when illegal immigrants takes over, or religious talkers takes over completely a site designated for something else, then it is a matter for us to "understand" THEM.

That is pure and unsoiled arrogance.

I will be most happy to meet anyone on a site designated for Religion and Dinars, if you wish.

Over there we can solve all the intricacies of Anti Christ, the seven seals, and try to find out if there is a middle station, where the bad and good are sorted out, after you die.

I've counted back the postings, it looks like, religious, religious, Dinar, Dinar, religious, religious, Dinar religious.

There seem to be two sides, teams, or groups here.

When one get serious they talk Dinars, when the other gets serious, they talk Religion.

Then it's the endless shuffle of space, ...."just scroll down"...how can you know what to scroll over if you don't read it?

There is no such thing as selective reading. If you don't read it you cant make a decision about whether it was worth spending your time on or not. Catch 22. So for all of you bitching about why you have to spend your extra time at the ATM selecting a language, (Spanish or not), you're doing the same to others on this blog, claiming your religious and speech rights.

If I would fill any nook and cranny of this blog with how an internal combustion engine works, completely ignore your "shut ups" and continue so at least half of all the postings would be in the issue of "the internal workings of the Otto engine, the comparability with Diesel cycle and it's future", then it would be very very clear that I would take over the site, on a completely different issue.

I guess once you've learned to say God, Jesus, Heavens, and a few other things, common sense rules don't apply, you're above respect expectancy, as you now have a higher purpose, other are beyond you, and it's just a matter of others to "get it".

Remember a coupe of weeks or months ago when the site was invaded by idiots, kids that just took over having fun, no regard to anything, and you couldn't tell them anything.

Same shit different wrapping.

Laura,

You've got class I have to hand you that. Anyhow, great posting about the increase in Dinars. Good find, a nugget, well that means, the Dinar increase is on the way. Hurray.

It seems though to be a very very slow increase, and in real terms, we're talking fractions of a cent here.

A quick tap on the calculator shows that if they do a 5 point increase every week, (going from 1450 to 100, to the Dollar) and are going through 1350 points, that mean they will need OVER 5 YEARS to reach a parity of ONE dinar = ONE CENT.

This shows me, that the current adjustment is not THE RV we're looking for, but a mere adjustment to keep in par with inflation and perhaps also to give the Dinar a "raising value face".

It's certainly an exciting piece of info you came up with. It's actually the first raise in Dinars for a very very long time.

And it's official.

At least we know, if they don't do anything else with the Dinar for five years, the Dinar will be worth 1 Cent.

At that time every million Dinar will be worth 10.000 bucks.

I'm pretty sure most will sit on the Dinar, unless they get a family emergency, waiting for higher numbers, but hey, it's actually happening.

I'm pretty sure the "real" RV will come, and this is an adjustment procedure only.

It might very well go a couple of points, and then they decide they're done with the adjustment, and it will sit where it sits again, for a while.

Well, this is the Dinar game.

Panhandler,
Carole need all the help she can get.

Carl,

Oh man, that was deep stuff. And you didnt even promote the Flying Spaghetti Monster when you had the chance, you're hereby excommunicated from the Spaghetti Sect. Only recourdse you now have is ten days of flogging and a months solitaire, repenting not only your sins, but any sucker that have sinned too.

Now when the Dinar is finally moving(very slow) you might want to get a couple of more mils. The cheap deals are probably a thing of the past. Well, it will still sit in the affordable range, but it's moving
and it will probably not go cheaper. Even though it's a very small increase in value, the value IS going up, and the cheap price from yesterday will probably never come back again.

I know from the past that you were fully invested, and had stopped buying, but just a friendly reminder now buddy, get em while you can. Looks like the train has startet to move even so slowly that a slug could overtake it, but never the less, the train have started to move.

Time to sell your kids to medical experiments, so you can get more Dinars.

-- November 18, 2006 3:40 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

As usual you don't have a clue.

I think you understand 80%, and the rest you fill in with your assumptions as being the truth, and don't even bother to check if things were that way.

When corrected you are very very upset, and considered yourself being insulted.

You are continuing your religious rantings, and any effort to tell you that this is a Dinar site, is met by your, "Grow up" 'Get some diapers" or something of that sort. Followed by a very intelligent declaration that YOU are the victim.

-- November 18, 2006 3:54 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

panhandler;

Well, I was happy to see your friend had seen a move in the price of the Dinar..
I hope it is a sign of good things to come. :)

Valerio;

Will do.

Laura wrote, "Sara - Your writing about coming events is right on! Every Christian needs to put his or her trust in the Lord Jesus only. The future will take care of itself."

Thanks - that was the point.. glad someone got it. :)
Also, thanks for the stuff on the CBI currency auction..
there is much excitement and speculation about it as it seems to point toward a soon RV.
I sure hope so. :)

Carole;

I wasn't saying any part of Scripture was irrelevant.. but I did notice that people like Roger and Carl find getting into the "deep" stuff (which you and Valerio were opening the can on) to be irritating. I was just mentioning that instead of getting into a debate about the coming events and prognostication about the endtimes maybe we should stick to the basics (or mood of the board about what they wish to discuss) and Dinar. When you say, "you try to rationalize scripture to make others feel good."... I felt that what I was aiming at was trying to make the discussion somewhat less obnoxious.. by toning it down to basics, not the deeper (and wilder) stuff. :D

Rom 12:18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

The harley comments by Roger plus the ones by Carl concerning his yarn (with a few facts thrown in) about the Roman view of the crucifying of Christ.. kinda made me think the concern was real. I think Roger summarized it well by saying we should stay on course.

Sara.

PS Roger - I don't think Carl should sell his kids for more Dinar.. couldn't we suggest something else to sell? :)

-- November 18, 2006 4:03 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Too Late Sara!!!!!!!

I got 4 goats and a one legged pigeon that can sing "she will be coming around the mountain when she comes" for my oldest.. and a 4 years supply of "depends" for my nursing home years during the trade for my youngest...now all I have to do is fiqure out how to change these into dinar...

-- November 18, 2006 4:22 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

You just don't get it!!! And I am not the only one trying to tell you to get with the program. And you change your mind so frequently. So unstable!

Why do you think that I feel victimized by you? That is absurd. You aren't significant enough(regardless of what your ego demands)to victimize me.

However, if you consider that to me you are like a fly on the end of my nose or a piece of gum stuck to my shoe, victimizing me--- well you might have something there...

-- November 18, 2006 6:29 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

I change my mind so frequently, so unstable, see, one more thing right out of your head.....you know nothing and defend your assumptions, and again pose as the victim, telling the world your victimized.

Sara,
Well knowing Carl, I know he wouldn't mind trading in his kids, or close relatives, but yes I could perhaps have suggested a more human approach, like selling his kidney, a retina or part of his liver. He will go with a limp, have a pee bag taped to his belly and can only take left turns, because of the lost eyesight, but think of the benefits he would gain, all those Dinars, that Sara, cant be ignored.

-- November 18, 2006 6:43 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sarah,

Yes I would looove to go into the religious aspect of things and in perhaps more detail discuss my point of view, I dont think I can sway you, but it would be very interesting, we have had a lot of those in the past, but all in all, as this is actually a Dinar site, and the topic have been so overwhelmingly on religion, I actually would think that it would be a very good idea if Kevin would create a religious blog, where any aspect of life can be discussed from a religious view point.

The need is obvious there.

The bummer with that stuff is, that it takes so much of space, as intricate shadows and angels needs a long communication to be fully understood by the other party, so the discussions tend to cover page after page after ....well you got it.

-- November 18, 2006 6:55 PM ∞

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Ian wrote:

Roger/Carl

I don't know that much about the Dinar, even though I own some and am trying to learn. I read this blog everyday, and I can tell you that if discussing the dinar is a requirement for posting, then you 2 guys do less of it than anyone.

Roger, all you do is comment on what others have looked up or say. Carl, based on what you have posted, I think I know probably as much as you do, which is not that much.
From what I see, Sara, Laura and Carole tie in the religious issues as it concerns that area of the world.

But Roger, you don't make sense. When Sara or Laura post the bible you have no response, but when Carole does you go crazy.
Acutally she gives bible qoutes less than others. And if you were really paying attention you would realise that Sara and Laura are the ones who give you the "put down" bible stuff. In fact they really put the screws to you. What is it? you need the kiss before the screw?
Carole was gone for awhile and this discussion team was full of religious stuff. I didn't see either of you compaining then.
I said it awhile back and i say it again, I think Carole has you pegged and you don't like it and for sure can't take it.
I am a Russian Jew, and some of my family has converted to Christianity, and i have had a lot of preaching done to mme in my life. But I don't see Carole preaching to you at all, I see Sara and Laura as the preachers in this group.
At any rate, I can handle diversity and I enjoy all of the religious imput, especially as it talks to the part of the world where I have 5 thousand dollars invested. To me it is pretty interesting. Like someone said a few days ago, watching the dinar is like watching paint dry.And this would be a awful discussion to follow if talking about the dinar was all there was to it.

-- November 18, 2006 7:13 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

Turn the page!!!

Dang, where did I put that fly swatter??????

-- November 18, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ian,

If you're in the Christian community, good for you, but that will put you in the risk of forgiving anyone that agrees with you view of Christianity.

Ian, if you backtrack, you will find that my participation on this blog is'nt what you say. I have been finding articles, doing a lot of research that I have shared, even have had articles written, by me, on other sites posted on this blog, I find it a bit funny, you sitting on the sideline, not coming up with anything yourself, sitting and commenting that I just do comments on others findings. Not so my friend. May I ask you, would it be too much to ask of you yourself would come up with something you can find, and share it with us.

That would be a welcomed contribution.

-- November 18, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Ian,

Thanks for giving your perspective. I think you hit the nail on the head. This would not only be a boring site but there would be periods of no postings if all we could discuss was Dinar newspaper articles.

One thing I hoped to communicate to Roger is the grocery store approach. When you shop at the grocery store you don't buy everything you just take what you need and leave the rest.

This is why I scroll thru some postings when I have limited time. I'm scanning for "Dinar" or "RV". Roger calls it selective reading but I call it scanning.

-- November 18, 2006 8:10 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura Parker,

Tried to get to that important stuff you stumbled upon, but are unable to find what I'm looking for. An informative grid on CBI's site??? can you describe exactly where you find it. I tried to click on the Dinar on top of the Blog, but as advertisements change on occasion, I'm pretty sure I got the wrong one.

The Dinar dealers have usually a news or articles you can click on, but found nothing.

I also tried "Bureau of Near East .....site" but ended up with nothing.

I'm sure it's there somewhere, and as this is such an important piece, can you please do me ( and I suppose a few more) a favour and try to pinpoint this article a bit more.

From one thing to the other, I remember some time ago, you had some trouble getting into the site of "Iraq Compact". That's one of the keystone documents, in this business, but I was not able to link you up (sorry for my pjuter illiteracy). Did you ever get to read that document?

-- November 18, 2006 8:40 PM ∞

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anonymous wrote:

Talking about the war in Iraq, which affects the outcome of the dinar, and thus our investments, without talking about religion, is like talking about the New York Yankees, and trying not to mention baseball.

Get real, Roger.

-- November 18, 2006 9:07 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Chris,

Sorry , squuuuse me, reading the headline of this blog ...quote "Iraqi Dinar".

THATS WHAT WE DO ON THIS BLOG, if it's getting boring, well may I suggest some other headlines.

This is Truck and Barter only, and I'm sure there are a zillion others.

Buffalo Real Estate.
Accuracy of Odometers.
Driving slower save gas?
Grey market, breast milk.
Tracing a statistic, teen suicide.
Smart sanctions would it work?
Chart of the day - Death of poor in rich neighbourhoods.

This is a very very short take of what is out there, and as I said that is Truck and Barter only, by the way they have a lot more.

If the subject is too booooring, (admittedly, Iraqi currency is not exactly a top of the chart discussion subject, and it might very well get boring on occasion).

This is then very simple.

Go to a blog that have a subject that interests you and dive in.

For those that really are interested and want to do the Dinar, let them do the Dinar.

It would be unfair to go to an Astronomy site and cover it with Greek Mythology.
Same if you go to a math site and start professing the Democratic party.
If we want to do the Dinars at this site, can't you let those interested in it do just that.???

Yeah but it gets so boring, so .......

So what? So we must cover it with religious stuff instead, hey it's a free country isn't it.

Thanks buddy.

Chris, is that too much to ask?

-- November 18, 2006 9:07 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Anonymous,

Yes the Dinar certainly have a religious aspect to it, mostly the Islam religion, as what affects the Dinar, the local religion in Iraq is one of them.

That is a whole different scenario from covering the blog with debates on Antichrist, Heaven and Hell, and save your soul, especially if the blog is starting to be dominated by it. The aspect you are referring to, is lost in that mess also.

-- November 18, 2006 9:14 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Before next....yeah but...pops up,

CAN'T WE JUST STICK TO THE IRAQI DINAR NOW.

IS THAT TOO HARD?

-- November 18, 2006 9:16 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

All,

The whole point of my quoting from the weekly Iraq Report is to let you know that the report states that the change in Iraq dinar value is related to inflation. Please read the quote again and see. This change is not related to the re-value but to inflation as suggested by IMF.

Laura

-- November 18, 2006 9:26 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Ian:

You have miscalculated on Roger. His posts almost always represent knowledge or research and a keen insight about the progress of the Dinar. After his brilliant post on the workings of the Atomic Bomb, I absorb every word he says. I wish he would give us a post on the workings of the combustible engine and the diesel engine.

Carole: I sorta wish you and Roger could reach some type of reconcilliation but on the other hand, I really enjoy the bickering.

This site could get pretty boring if we stuck strictly to the progress of the Dinar as there is only so much that can be said until we see some movement or prospect of RV. I was reading this blog when John LeRue was the MC and from my prospective, it is better now than ever before.

-- November 18, 2006 9:35 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Ian:

You have miscalculated on Roger. His posts almost always represent knowledge or research and a keen insight about the progress of the Dinar. After his brilliant post on the workings of the Atomic Bomb, I absorb every word he says. I wish he would give us a post on the workings of the combustible engine and the diesel engine.

Carole: I sorta wish you and Roger could reach some type of reconcilliation but on the other hand, I really enjoy the bickering.

This site could get pretty boring if we stuck strictly to the progress of the Dinar as there is only so much that can be said until we see some movement or prospect of RV. I was reading this blog when John LeRue was the MC and from my prospective, it is better now than ever before.

-- November 18, 2006 9:38 PM ∞

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Ian wrote:

Roger,
Oh!! Okay, because YOU say we should go to another blog, because we enjoy this one too much, I guess we should all jump.
What Research? Articles? Give me a f.....g break.

You know I think she might be a shrink. She called you delusional and I think she is right.

Why don't you answer the other parts of my posting?

Can't, can you?

ToO incriminating, huh?

-- November 18, 2006 9:57 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

no, Ian, not delusional---mentally challenged. Can't you tell?

Let's just ignore him. He takes up too much time, and offers nothing.

There's alot of active gray matter here, why bother with someone with a bunch of dead cells?

-- November 18, 2006 10:02 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

I looked and found that the dinar site that google advertized is no longer there. However, I did make a copy of the report for reading.

Also, I remembered the dinar site that was advertized by google. It is called Dinar Trade. I remembered because I was impressed by their format. I believe the information to be correct too.

Therefore, go to Dinar Trade on google and click on current news. Up will pop the lastest news, including Iraq Weekly Status Report. I know, I looked.

All,

I am rather tired of different people attacking different people. I know, I do not have to name names.

I would like to have everyone involved in making an effort to be kind to each other.

If I am taken as preaching, than so be it!!! Let's at least act like adults!

Laura

-- November 18, 2006 10:34 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Laura,
Why don't you be kind to the rest of us and stop feeding the Spaghetti monster guy?
You give him permission that you don't give others.
Shame on you.

-- November 18, 2006 11:20 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Dear Anonymous,

I don't generally acknowledge a person who wishes to be Anonymous due to the fact that you don't even have the guts to sign your own name.

However, I am generally kind to everyone...even Roger. Kindness is what the Lord teaches Christians to be.

If by feeding Roger, you mean, giving him the information related to the dinar information he requested, I would do this for anyone who requested it.

In addition, this board is suppose to be a dinar board; and the information may have helped others..so that others if so inclined may even be able to read the information too.

Laura

-- November 19, 2006 12:09 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

To ALL: All I can say is "WTDH". . Key West will never be the same. . .you can find Carl and I in the kitchen. . we will be the 2 guys with "YARMULKES" on, and a chefs' knife in our hands. . .Amen

-- November 19, 2006 12:19 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

I really enjoy the fighting on this site. Especialy when Carole bitch slaps Roger.

-- November 19, 2006 12:33 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura,

Found it, right on, it's official. The Dinar is to be slowly increased in value, due to inflation.

That will give an interesting question about the Dinars coming value.

If it is increased in value to counter the inflation, then it will at some stage or the other actually have reached it's goal, and the inflation will stagnate.

Then the increase will stop as the target have been met.

However, in my humble opinion, I don't think that is what in the store.

If the currency is undervalued to begin with, you WILL get inflation, on the ground that imported gods are expensive to buy, and will be scarce. Thus the merchants can charge more, thus inflation.

If they need to compensate for a galloping inflation, and truly get it under control, the currency needs to be in par in value more than only small fractions of a cent to make a difference.

So, a currency with value 1 to 1450 to the Dollar, or a value of 1 to 1425 will in the long run not make much of a difference.

The inflation will be subdued, but not done with, as long as the currency is undervalued, whether they raise it slowly or not.

That will leave the only option to continue to raise the value, and have a lesser inflation, but still they will have some form of inflation, until the value of the Dinar will start to "bite" when it is used for foreign purchases.

This will leave the Iraqis with a couple of options, either, continue to raise the value slowly, get at least a handle on the inflation, and stop increasing the value. The inflation will then start to kick in again, and the need to raise it (the Dinar) again will come.

This will then be a cyclic raising of the Dinars value, and only to take care of inflation peaks, this assumes also that some inflation is acceptable.

They can continue to raise the value in a continuous progressive manner until the "bite" point is achieved. Thus having the inflation issue dealt with reasonable thorough.

The "bite" point of the Dinars value can not be determined in any other way other than letting the Dinar go on a free traded market (forex), but a substitute indication of that point will be achieved, if the Iraqis insist on holding the value artificially where they want it, by increasing it to that "bite point".

Where exactly that point is, have been debated over and over, this is the point they must achieve, in order to handle their inflation, this is the same point we are all guessing where the up and coming RV will take place, 10 cents, 35 cents, a Dollar, your guess is as good as mine.

However, economical laws, that acts very much like natural laws, postulates this point as the goal.

In short, if it is a true statement that the Iraqis want to handle their inflation, if it is further a true statement that they want to reach it by increasing the value of the Dinar, THEN they are bound to reach that goal marker, to achieve that particular objective.

So basically, just come up with a guess, what the true Dinar value is right now, and you have just entered the guessing game to come. That's where they must take the Dinar.

Looking good for the Dinar.

-- November 19, 2006 1:02 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ian, why didnt you come up with that

-- November 19, 2006 1:07 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

TURTLE,

Saw on the news today, it was a rather schetchy famous 10 seconds bit, that there are operations going on in Sad'r city right now. Last time our troops were there, Malaki shut down the operation, but it seems to be back on track. Can you tell us from your perspective what's going on there? Are we finally kicking some rear ends????

-- November 19, 2006 1:37 AM ∞

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Maureen wrote:

All,

You can all go to Dinartrade.com to get all the latest news that seems to be current and correct.

Maureen

-- November 19, 2006 1:44 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Roger,

I think you missed the fact that Ian stated he is a Russian Jew.

He stated some in his family have converted to be Christians.

He did not state that he is a Christian.

I just thought I would point this out to you, due to your postings.

I thought you might want to read the blog a little closer than you did.

Ian,

I wish to welcome you to this dinar blog and as far as I am concerned, you are welcome to contribute to this blog.

What Roger stated about his contributions in research is true (Read the history to this blog. Don't just take my word for it.)

I have been involved in this site for at least a year or more and I had to catch up on the reading background to this site. Do your homework!

Sara, Carl, Rob N., Taylor, Okie, Tim Bitts, Willie, Valerio, Panhandler, Chris, Neil and others are old timers on this site. Carole has been with us I think around 6 months or so. Correct me Carole if I am wrong.

What happens is that those of us who have been on this site awhile--develop friendships and respect for each other due to our discussions and interactions.

I too have had a few run ins with Roger. His bark is worse than his bite.

Try talking with him. I'll admit he does have an ego and he can be brash.

However, he is someone you can trust for his dinar knowledge.

I think if you stay, you too will develop relationships with this group too.

These remarks are also meant for Carole, Chris and any others who are having relational problems with Roger.

Laura

-- November 19, 2006 1:56 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Thanks Maureen,

One very important data from one of the articles you were referring to is the Iraqi finance minister, and the President of CBI, Mr Shibib, was telling about the consolidation and restructuring of the debts, left over from Saddam Husein.

This article gave the info that this should be done in "a couple of months" . Earlier there was articles out telling first it was suppose to be done by the end of this year, then another article surfaced, telling us that it was suppose to be done before the end of NEXT year.

Finally this article again confirmed that it was suppose to be done in a couple of months so probably by the end of the year, or very early in the beginning of next year.

This is an important milestone for the Iraqis, to achieve, because it's one of the criteria from IMF, to be in good standing. Right now Iraq is only "honorable member" of IMF.

As full members, they are much more likely to launch the Dinar on the open trade market, and this latest article confirms that they will be in a position to do so once they have cleaned up their debt mess.

If they actually will do it (launch the Dinar on the forex) or not, that is up to the Iraqis, but once member of IMF, they have all the rights to trade as an equal member of any nation, and that includes their currency as well.

It's getting closer.....get em while you can.

-- November 19, 2006 2:04 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Allawi shapes up as Iraq's iron man
Hala Jaber Nov 19 2006

A FORMER Iraqi prime minister who is tipped to return as a “strongman” leader if Baghdad’s faltering government falls has challenged the American-led coalition’s objective of creating a western-style democracy even though the country is in turmoil.

Iyad Allawi, an ally of the United States and Britain who ran the first Iraqi government after the fall of Saddam Hussein, said that elections were no solution when the overriding problem was a security crisis caused by militias who had infiltrated the police and were killing with impunity. The slaughter has triggered an exodus of middle-class professionals.

“Iraq was not and is not ready for elections,” Allawi said in an interview last week.

With sectarian violence spiralling out of control and the government of Nouri al-Maliki unable to stop it, Allawi said that various political groupings were discussing alternatives.

These included the possibility that Iraq’s parliament might now be forced to override the results of last January’s elections and appoint a new administration of technocrats with free rein to confront the militias head on if necessary.

Allawi’s comments coincided with growing speculation that the Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker, the former US secretary of state, will conclude in its report next month that stability and security are the most important objectives, rather than an American-imposed ideal of democracy.

One idea circulating in Washington is to let a “strongman” impose order, allowing US forces to hand over responsibility for security to the Iraqis and begin a staged withdrawal. George W Bush recently had to reassure Maliki that he was not seeking to unseat him, but he has gone on to define success in Iraq as “a government that can defend, govern and sustain itself”, toning down his prodemocracy rhetoric.

Asked whether he would be willing to lead a new government, Allawi said he had found his premiership “so lonely” — but hinted that he could be ready to “give it a final try”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2460035,00.html

-- November 19, 2006 2:06 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq is a member of the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations
Iraq is a member of the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations
16/11/2006
Source: Translated by IRAQdirectory.com

Iraq won membership in the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations (ECOSOC) on the continent of Asia during the elections which took place in the General Assembly of the United Nations on Thursday, 2 / 11 / 2006.

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=2586

-- November 19, 2006 2:15 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

As you have always said, Carl.. Iran sees US troops as hostages.. and they don't wish them to leave.
This about right as far as you see it?

Iran seeks to keep US troops in Iraq
By Kamal Nazer Yasin for Eurasianet (14/11/06)

As recently as September, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told a visiting Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki that the "unwanted guests [US troops] must leave the region as soon as possible." But as Iraq careens toward civil war, Iranian officials, along with the leaders of other Middle Eastern states, seem to have publicly softened their rhetoric concerning the US military presence.

"Iranian leaders are as terrified of a hasty US departure as everyone else in the area. They just pretend otherwise," said a political scientist in Tehran who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The political scientist added that a "country-wide civil war in Iraq […] would be a catastrophic development for Iran" on many levels. The academic outlined a scenario in which civil war in Iraq would likely produce a refugee crisis in neighboring Iran, which, in turn, could reignite long-simmering inter-ethnic hostilities in Iranian territories along the 700-mile common border. "Iranian security forces are simply not prepared to protect that border against a massive inflow of refugees, weapons, smugglers and armed adversaries of all kinds," the political scientist said.

Beyond a potential refugee crisis, the continuation of the existing trend, culminating in the possible partition of Iraq, would constitute a major diplomatic defeat for Tehran. At present, a Shia-dominated government is in place in Baghdad for the first time in modern history. Iran is eager not to lose this strategic advantage.

Iran is believed to have been a generous supplier of arms and logistical support to a variety of Iraqi factions, most notably radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi militia. Earlier, Iran tacitly encouraged the factions to use their weaponry in an effort to destabilize Iraq and bog down US forces there. Now, Iranian officials are heeding a call for restraint...

Another major factor in Iran’s policy-making calculus is a desire to maintain "strategic depth." Iranian leaders remain concerned that the Bush administration harbors plans to use force to stop Iran’s nuclear program. The ability to retaliate against US troops in Iraq, as well as against Israel via the Hezbollah militia in Lebanon, is seen by Iranian officials as leverage that diminishes the chances of an American attack on Iran.

Iran is believed to have established vast networks of pro-Iranian elements in Iraq, including special-forces units (collectively known as the Quds Brigade), that can be mobilized quickly to carry out attacks against American forces, if Iran itself comes under a US attack. Wayne White, a former Deputy Director of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the State Department, said that Iraq would become a theater of Iranian operations in the event of a US attack against Tehran. "Of course," White said, "US forces are sitting targets there [in Iraq]."

Iranian action to restrain sectarian violence should not be construed as support for Washington’s stabilization efforts, some American political analysts say. Tehran continues to work to undermine US influence in the region, even as it works to keep US troops around.

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=16917

-- November 19, 2006 2:32 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Laura,

Hug to you, yes I have an ego bigger than my balls, but it's so darn hard to be humble when you know you're the best.

(I just tossed a teddy bear on the floor for the yuppy dogs to bite on.)

Islam, Jewish and Christian is different variation of the same theme, a God that created you and the universe, and you are the effect point, so even if a Jewish, Christian or Muslim will argue to the death on the difference, Me personally I see it as the same theme. Sure I know the differences, but it's along the same line, so no, I saw the posting, it's ok, and fine.

Laura you came up with such an important document today, that you will probably get the weeks Gold medal.

In return I have something for you, maybe not in the same magnitude, but it have a very big significance for the Iraqi Dinar.

Some time back we were talking about the Iran threat to the world, their nukes and their ambitions. We were pondering the possibilities, and came up with either a nuke war, an invasion, or an internal collapse of Iran.

At the time, there was no real possibility of an internal resistance, but however, today in the Globe, I found this very interesting article.

Iran is like China, controlling their communication to the outer world, they are pretty much blocking access to the Internet, as good as they can do it.

However, according to the article, there is a very big underground Internet activity going on in Iran, there are an estimated 70 to 100,000 blog sites, in Farsi alone, and the Iranian government have no way of controlling it.

The fear with the Iraqi Dinar is, will the Iranians start a war, and will that bring back the whole clock for the whole region another 30 years. Will they do it before the Iraqi Dinar is ready to be cashed in?

At least we know now, that there are plenty of blog sites, not controlled by the Iranian Gov.

I say, THAT is a way in, to start a real resistance.

If each blog have , lets say about 30 regulars, times 70.000, blog sites, that is a reach of over 2 million people pretty quick.

Of course if our Intelligence Agencies operating in the area is smart enough to go on the bandwagon, and actually use any available resource, instead of just monitor it, that's another story. But it bears to fruit the notion mentioned earlier, that most probably the Fascist Europe, Italy and Germany, could probably not have pulled off their thing, had they lived in modern times, with an active Internet. The Soviet fell that way, communication was impossible to stop, the Russians on the street knew, they were living in a substandard society, compared with their enemies, and started to doubt the splendor of the workers paradise.

Just by the fact that there is a community (pretty big too) that is not doing what the Iranian Gov, wants them to do, is one more indication that there might be a way after all.

-- November 19, 2006 2:36 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sarah,

Yes Allawi was right in that the handover was far far too quick, it was like letting a 13 year old into a semi. Malaki might be a future candidate for the Iraqi elections but a pure take over, or removal of the current Iraqi administration seems now to be a more and more moot point.

There was a point actually not too long ago, where hard words was addressed to the Iraqi Government, to actually get something done, but as I see it, that point is gone, and the current sailors will be there until next election at least.

Programs ARE implemented, maybe not in the way or fashion we like, but it's happening, the most important is the Dinars value, I'm not so sure the significance of it is really understood by the MSM. A small little obscure article, probably very few was reading mentioned it, but it will make a very big difference for the Iraqis to have a higher valued currency. The end of the Iraq Debt program, the coming membership in the IMF, the HCL soon to come, it's all there on the table right now, and even though it is not visible for the common man on Baghdad's street, things are about to change very soon.

If Malaki can survive politically a couple of more months, and I do believe he will, the possibility of him being a hero in Iraq might even be a possibility.

-- November 19, 2006 2:52 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

Darn you were right, the Iranians admitted it, ( well a person that was very anxious to stay anonymous in the Tehran Gov anyway), they really wants us there, never saw it that way before, you predicted it. I owe you a beer.

-- November 19, 2006 3:03 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Neil,

Thanks for your kind words. About the inner workings of the combustion engine, naa, I think I'll pass on that one. I did however do it, but on another site. I published the results of development of a military engine (named 4 AO 32), and it's possible conversion into an airplane engine. ( not recommended). Also drove a diesel rabbit from California to Utah, and back , running on completely free fuel. Filtered used cooking grease from my local Chinese joint. It was very fun, and I could for sure develop on it... But I think I stay with Dinars and as Dinar related subjects as possible on this site.

There is action on the Dinar front now, and you will probably see a lot of interest in it, as it moves on.

With that, the famous "dead spots" will be less and less, and the focus will be more Dinars than anything else.

-- November 19, 2006 3:41 AM ∞

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Ian wrote:

Roger,

I could have come up with the same or more, if I believed in committing plagerism.

Is that what this is all about on this blog?

Now you are in my ball park. And you obviously distorted whatever article you were copying, cause economics 101, teaches a whole different definition of inflation.

Like everything else, you've distorted reality...again.

-- November 19, 2006 3:58 AM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Ian,
Welcome, I liked your posts. I don't know how long you have been reading, but you hit it right on. I've been chuckling for an hour.

All,
This blog is fantastic. We all have something in common to one another with the dinar investment. Each has his/her own contribution. We cannot all be dinar information bearers. I thank those of you who do this work, and freely give it to the rest of us. Keep in mind that the information on the dinar that is brought to this blog don't mean anything except that it offers evidence that helps us all remain hopefull that our investment will bring the reward we all do hope for, but it does not have any power to effect the result of our investment. If we want to keep this blog limited to useful dinar investment information only, we should have Kevin start a new notepad, so it don't take so long to load, and it should remain blank, and we all can just check in everday for the only information we need to know, and that is - CONGRADULATIONS, WE ARE ALL RICH, GO CASH OUT AND GET YOUR REWARD!
I say no, lets keep amusing one another with diverse conversation, that we may know each other better, teaching one another whatever we have to offer, passing the time until we can all come together at the celebration.

-- November 19, 2006 4:02 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ian, fantastic,

As the Iraqis are right now increasing the value of the Dinar, in order to put a handle on the inflation, on the insistance of IMF, you're not arguing with me on what will cure an inflation, you're arguing with IMF.

International Monetary Fond, buddies of the WB.

Now we have another cure, well, what exactly is the cure you want to teach the IMF and the WB?

Lets hear, what is inflation, what causes it, what is the handling?

I really want to see a better solution from you now.

-- November 19, 2006 4:57 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Ian!
Sorry! I really don't feel the need to razzle and dazzle you with my knowledge about Iraq,Iran or Dinar for the past two years on this site...If you want to read my post regarding those some of those subjects covered.... the back posts are still there, and you will learn a lot from many different posters....

What is happening now...I stated some of those events would happen 1 year ago...I believe Sara who is one of the oldest on this board can back me up on some of those...there really is not much to say about the situation presently, other than Iran has taken the upper hand within the police and military. They control or have very strong influence within certain key positions of the Iraqi Government. If they did not...a few of the characters allowing the militias to run freely would have vanished a long time ago..and a lot of your secretarian violence would have disappeared.Sadr is causing the conflict under the directions of Iran...Maliki is allowing it to happen because he was voted in by the single vote of Sadr...so not only does Sadr have political influence, but maliki also has direct influence from Iran...but why I am telling you that...you already have fiquired it out...the first thing I noticed about your post was your quickness...I was totally captured by every word..I caught myself allowing the urine to run down my leg, as I did not want to leave the warmth of your words projecting from the screen....Do it some more would ya?

The Situation is about Iraq...but mostly about Iran and how effective they have been in their process of taking over certain areas of the Iraqi Government...attempted power grabs happen on many different scales...you are seeing one of them in action..and frankly we have very little control to stop it...if you notice everytime our forces go after Sadr's militias, kill or capture the commanders, maliki throws a hissy because we did not tell him that we were going to do it....Do you ever wonder why he wants to be told first?

Hang tight to your seat...cause you ain't seen nothing yet...what is happening presently in Iraqi is fluff and like air...now you see it and now you don't...if Iran keeps pushing the nuclear issue...Israel is going to attack with the support of America....the first territory that will fall is Iraq with thousands of our soldiers either captured or dead....but that again.. is the purpose of the baiting from Iran isn't it...?

If that happens and there is a high probability it will...the dinar value is going to be anyone's guess...cause I don't have a clue...

So! just watch the board show for a while...we are in a intermission here with the dinar...of course unless you want to razzle and dazzle us with your knowledge...

Now where is my microwave popcorn..?

-- November 19, 2006 7:49 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

Last week on a talk radio show,, here in the Los Angeles area , there was a discussion with the Ambassador of Iraq. He stated pretty much what you have said about Sadr and his relationship to Maliki. But he said that some of the high ranking shieks under the command of their King, have taken a grip on Sadr. I believe he put it, they are attempting to take the "Thug" out of him. He has been invited to their palaces and sits on their royal couches. The point was that they understand the nusiance he is to the process on Iraq, and they have decided to deal with it in a luring way. He said that Sadr is enjoying this new place of proimince and recognition and the wealth that has been offered him. It beats sleeping on the desert floor in tents. They recognize that in time he will loose his influence with the militias and they will more than likely find another radical leader. But for now if they can lure and subdue him long enough, to give Iraq a chance of making progress, so that when the US moves troops out they might be better able to stand on their own feet.

Now this ambassador was only surmizing their intentions, cause Saudia does not believe in the democracy that we are trying to instill in Iraq, but they recognize that if Iraq can get control over the militias, the oil producing strategies will effect the entire region, which of course Saudia wants to benefit from also. I remember he also discussed the timeline( lifeline) of Maliki was very short. Possibly another part of the tactic of luring Sadr.

Does this make any sense as to what you know about the Sadr situation?

By the way, you could have left out the...pee running down your leg..stuff. What is the purpose? You guys start the adversity and then you cry and whine when those of us respond with equal or better sarcasm etc.etc.

If you light the match you invite the fuel.

Laura:

Not 1 year-10 weeks!!I am curious,do you read from a bible written in Greek or English( or both)?

Sara,
Same question

Valerio:

I like your style. You obviously have a great amount of maturity, and I agree with you completely.

If all we wanted from this site was Dinar information, we could just go to the many sources ourselves ( which, in essence are really not that many) and read about once a week and get the latest scoup on the whole subject.

The Dinar, is not the only currency that is weak and a gamble. There are many out their to invest in. And they all carry the same risks and possible benefits with the same components of frustration and speculation. One of my daughters is looking into a new prospect in an island in Thialand. If your interested I will find out about it and let you know, cause I'm sure they will start hounding me to invest like they did in the dinar.

This site has been valuable to me. Through it all, I have been able to glean some information that has made me willing to invest another 25k in the dinar. I took a major deep breath before doing it, but my thought is that even though I have no big dreams beyond my first investment of 10k, there are many people around the world that I possibly could do some good for. It may be a pipe dream, but I always ask myself, how much money am I going to be able to take with me when I die? The answer is always the same--nothing. So, while I am able to make significant investments without jepordizing my own little nest, I guess I will do it, just incase it affords me the opporotunity to leave some kind of a mark on those who are less fortunate. I truly don't mean to sound pious or anything like that. I am just sharing some of my hopes and dreams from this crazy, fickled, yet hopeful investment.

Ian,

You have sparked my interest about inflation. I am going to do my own little search. I am sure it will be very basic, but I suspect you have discovered that Roger puts his own take on a little knowledge and then expresses it as infallible. I picked this up a while back when he was giving this blog a lesson in Communism and Eastern Europe.

If I were willing to go off blog and do the e-mail corresponding thing, I could give you my true insights into Roger, but I'm not. And to address some of my thoughts and suspicions here would lead to Armagedon!!

For the respect that I have for many here, and my lack of time, I will just deal with him on a more superficial basis.

In the meantime, stay with us. You may need a break once in a while, I think we all do, but Valerio is right we do ( in a sick way) all have a common bond. For some of us it is more than the Dinar, for others it is just pure passing of time, and yes, entertainment.

-- November 19, 2006 9:51 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole:
Go back and read Ian's first post...now you tell me who took the first Jab..

Give respect and you get it back..nothing magical about that...Lets make a truce here...and you need to give Roger the same ...I will treat you as I would want to be treated...I can't do better than that...frankly! I,m getting tired of the snide remarks between you and I...
This board deserves better from you and I... What do ya say?

-- November 19, 2006 11:52 AM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Carole,

I am not sure what you are asking for your question. Can you clarify?.

Laura

-- November 19, 2006 12:47 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Roger: Everything I've heard about Sadr City lately has been going after kidnapped people. I haven't heard anything of any major operations ot finally put a mudhole in the Mahdi. The things I have heard have not hit the news yet but what is disturbing me more is that we should have had some other big news by now and I have heard nothing on that mission being accomplished. That is very disappointing to me. To be sadly honest, there is a void in information on what we are going to do next. I'm still hoping for some big press releases to rain down but until then, not much you don't already know from this end.

-- November 19, 2006 12:47 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

The following poem by Rudyard Kipling was one of the guides for me
on my path to God and introduced to me by my Grandmother.
It's just to point out that the path to God is very personal and
private. As I've followed my path many people have attempted to
thrust their version of the path on me. Some people are worth
listening to and others are not. Usually the people that insist
that their path is the only way are "legends in their own mind".
They are also known as "holier than thou" types.

========================================================

"IF"
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!

-- November 19, 2006 1:27 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Haven't gone thru the messages below to see if anybody else posted this. Here is the exchange rate for today

Number of banks 12 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1452 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 31.495.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 31.495.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------ -----

-- November 19, 2006 1:33 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Interesting posts. Reminds me that it's extremely hard to pleae everyone.

Carole,

Anything new from your Real Estate buddy who seemed to be plugged into Dinar info?

-- November 19, 2006 2:08 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Ian,

I'm still waiting for your reply.

It's easy to sit on the sideline and say BOO, like the hecklers in the Muppet Show.

I say this, you say BOO, I say that, you say BOO.

I just showed the board members a model of possible scenarios that the Iraqis can take with the regards to a slow increase in Dinars value. I have also showed the consequences for each step, and the outcome.

The model is based on IMF (and WB) , Central Bank of Iraq, and the Iraqi Finance Ministers statement, that their intention is to slowly increase the value to counter inflation.

I have showed the board, a model for a cyclic upgrade of the Dinar, the possibilities, if the Iraqis will accept some inflation.

I further showed all the members here, the possibility if the Iraqis were to do a continuous upgrade, possible time span, and the consequences of that.

I showed the point they need to reach financially with the regards to the value of the Dinar to get to the goal, if the stated objective is what they say.

I have stated that one effect of inflation is scarcity of goods, due to lack of buying power, due to low currency value. I have never stated a definition of inflation.

This is a model I have given to the members of the board to set in relation to their investment in the Dinar, in order to have a reasonable prediction on their investment.

What I'm getting is , BOO, and a statement that you can do better.

I'm all open.

I'm expecting a reply from you, not a one liner, saying BOO, but really an analysis from you.

The data about this is, as I say from other sources, but yes the model is mine. I challenge you to find where I copied this model.

So if what I'm saying is BOO, "get real" and "Your dreaming" type of thing, well, Ian, if this is a matter of I create, you destroy, I create, you destroy, then just continue on with saying "BOO", "You suck" and all that.

I want to see your model.

I want to see it in a cyclic mode, continuous mode, and the goal post. Please, I am very very curious what the other model is.

Can you please present it in a logical way, and delete all the , "You suck". Do as the old TV series, -"Just the facts, mam".

I promise you I will not argue with you, on a personal basis, I will keep my comments on the economical model only.

I would like in passing, give you another insight, take it or leave it.

Knowledge comes in two basic forms.

1. First hand knowledge, some call it life experience.
2. Second hand knowledge, some call it book knowledge.

To define any second hand knowledge as plagiarism, is the same as saying "You don't know if Borneo is there, someone told you, or you read about it, therefore you are plagiating.".

-- November 19, 2006 2:25 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

TURTLE,

Wow, from what I get there ARE a lot going on, It's a bit cryptic, but that's ok, I know what situation you're in. Big news by now....I'll keep scanning the MSM today and see if something of weight has surfaced. Don't know if you're referring to military, political or economical news. Thanks for the tip. It's appreciated.

I know of a cleric that is under arrest, or at least an arrest warrant, think he fled to Jordan, if it is the same one.

There are SOME indications that Malaki is doing something about the militias, but AlSad'r seems always to be free to go wherever he wants. I'll keep on checking and see if anything of weight came up today.

Thanks TURTLE.

-- November 19, 2006 2:37 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

Yes, it went down (or up in value) to 1452 today.

Just for the heck of things, I went back and calculated the drop rate, and it showed that from the 2nd of Sep (the rate was 1470) until now, the drop rate is 18 points.

It's 18 days in between, so therefore I can assume the plan is to let the points drop one point per day.

Assuming the Iraqis don't do a full RV in the meanwhile, and also assuming they will continue with the slow raise in the same pattern as now, that means that when the Dinar reaches a value of 1 cent to the Dollar, the time span will be slightly over 3 1/2 years.

-- November 19, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

correction: The name of the guy that they were talking about on the radio talk show was alSadr. Sorry. Unfortunately, when driving, I miss alot of detail fromthe radio.

Laura,

The original scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek. Just wondering if you and Sara read from original languages.

-- November 19, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl,

You got it a truce. But I can tell you that I will have a hard time not jumping in if you get sarcastic or condecesending with others. But I WILL TRY TO MIND MY OWN BUSINESS!!:}

As for Roger-- I believe he is hopeless. Poor self assessment skills and an apparent personality defect dominated by extremely low self esteem.

He could never survive in any other mode than what he exhibits here. I am almost sure of that.

But between you and me the TRUCE is on!!

Did you understand my post about alSadr and the Saudi hierarchy? I am hoping someone else heard or has similar information.

-- November 19, 2006 3:15 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Chris,

Funny that you should ask about my RE buddy. He is being very closed mouth and is not expecting any RV until after the 1st of the year. BUT he has recently( in the last month) bought a whole bunch more dinar. He says he now has 330million dinar. At that point, I decided to buy more.

I truly think he looks at this blog, cause he pretty much changed after I started posting. ( Hi Lee:})

He still is a great guy and still very close to my girls and their families.

And just in case he is looking in, I want him to know that we all are convinced that he really did open a bank in Costa Rica, and we think it is great!!

-- November 19, 2006 3:22 PM ∞

---

Ian wrote:

Roger,

I have to go somewhere today so I can't answer you right away.

I have decided that you are either the poorest communicator or you just don't know what the hell you are talking about.

There are some issues you did not present in your
"model". What are you using when predicting inflation or anyother ecomonmic forcast as far as the PPI's and the CPI'S? Real variables need to be considered when calculating the GDP
, along with othr variables as the effective interest rate and product productivity.

The IMF has nothing to do with any inflationary issues in any of it's member countries.

My God you at least have to know that!!

ANyway, I'll try toget back later tonight. In the meantime I would hope that you would holf-off trying to give anyone on this blog predicting information about the dinar, based on inflation of the economic picture of Iraq until you either can make yourself more understood or get the facts straight. Cause as of right now, I am really not sure what your real intentions are to this blog. But until I for one get clarification, I am beign very cautious of you.

-- November 19, 2006 3:59 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Thanks Carole

Roger,

Yeah, At that rate it would take years to RV to 1:1. I marvel at the people on the other blogs who are frustrated that their ship hasn't come in yet and they have been in this for 2 years or so. Some investments can take time.

I can lose a whole lot of money in the stock market in 3.5 years. I was considering going into investment consulting and farming myself out to any business that wants their stock price to drop. I only have to buy one share and it will hit the skids.

This is still the best investment that I have seen in long time.

I think there has to be a peg then a creep in the currency rate. Or, in the is case, the creep before the peg. But what the heck, we all know that the chicken came before the egg. Or was it the other way around?

Carole, I wish I could invest nearly as much as you. Whether to sell my kids or not depends on the day, but I like to think that we should keep our options open.

-- November 19, 2006 4:37 PM ∞

---

Maureen wrote:

All,

I am Carole's oldest daughter and the real estate guy my mom speaks of works very closely with my husband. So I will tell you what we have been told.

Since March this man has spent $320,000 in dinars. He very recently bought another $140,000. He has a friend who is a high power guy at one of the oil companies in Iraq. He has said they are waiting the RV so they can truly begin drilling for oil. Also, the money that is being given to Iraq by Japan is being done with the expectation of repayment for the loans and a solid oil supply. They want this sooner rather than later. He also said the dinar will open at betwwen $1.15-$1.45. The only thing he hasn't been able to say is when. But it is no longer a question of if but when. We get updates every Thursday so if I hear anything new or exciting I will pass it aong. I am meeting with him later on this week re another investment we are begining and I will ask him if he has aything new info. but he has said he believes nothing will happen until after the first of the year.

I will let you know when I know anything new.

Maureen

-- November 19, 2006 5:27 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Ian,

It is on the insistance of IMF that the current slow increase in value is taking place. So yes they have a lot to do with it. It's in the official statement, so yes, I know what I'm talking about.

For the rest, well, wecome back and let me know.

-- November 19, 2006 5:52 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Maureen,

Thanks for the info and the connection. Sometimes I wonder where people come from who chime in occasionally.

I also wonder how many read this blog and never contribute.

Anyway. Where are daughters 2,3 and 4?

-- November 19, 2006 6:15 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Maureen....

Thanks for your information on the Dinar! I must tell you that I'm in total awe of your mother for raising 5 daughters and not ending up in a corner somewhere with drool running out both sides of her mouth, (just kidding). I raised one daughter and she put several gray hairs on my head before starting her trek into the world at large. She's in the foreign service and lives all over the world so my only payback is to keep repeating "I want...I want" every time I visit her. I take great pride in her just as your mother does with the 5 of you. Cheers!!!

-- November 19, 2006 6:27 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Carole,

I agree with Okie on your ability to raise 5 children. You seem to be a strong woman and I believe you should take great pride in you accomplishments in raising 5 children.

Also, thank you for your clarification of my question to you.

In answer to you, I do not read Greek or Hebrew for the Bible in the Bible's original languages.

When I have a question, I contact my area's Bible College that does teach the Greek and Hebrew languages of the Bible.

In fact, my son has taken Greek from the bible college in question.

At this time, my son is taking Hebrew.

It sounds like the course is a difficult one, to hear him speak about the language.

I hope this answers your question.

Laura

-- November 19, 2006 6:59 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Roger!

Back on road tomorrow...S. Miss and Lousianna...if you are going to be close lets hook up...
Will talk in AM when I leave out...

Ian is a baiter...need I say more...

-- November 19, 2006 7:13 PM ∞

---

Maureen wrote:

Chris,

My sisters and I all live within 30 miles of my parents. In fact daughter 4 lives 2 doors down from me and 5 lives only 8 miles from me.

I am not sure what you meant about some occassional chiming in and reading blogs. I hope you don't thinks that is what I am doing. I have been checking in on this site from time to time and felt like maybe I could give a little insight.

I am not interested in getting into beliefs and who can hand out the best insults. i just want info on my dinar investment.

Maureen

-- November 19, 2006 8:05 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Maureen ( Mo),

Was happy to see you finally look at this forum. I did not want to give your birthright away for public knowledge, but since you have already done so--welcome!

All:

I was sitting in a reatuarant today scrambling for something to read and the only thing handy was an old New York Times ( ugh!).

Well, lo and behold was and article about the very thing I heard on the radio this week.

If anyone is interested, New York Times Nov.12th.

The article however, did not speak to the Saudia Arabia connection however. The article is titled: Influence rises but bases lost for Iraqi Cleric

-- November 19, 2006 9:18 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

Maybe Ian will have something good for us to chew on regarding inflation and the IMF stuff. Let's jsut wait and see.

DOn't know exactly what you mean by inferring he is a "baiter", but you know the old saying" the only way a fish gets caught is when they open their mouths".

I have to admit, I am enjoying being the spectator for once.

I have so much fun on this site!!!! I jsut wished I wasn't so busy, I could study more.

Maureen:

Are you also aware of some other currency that has same potential as dinar?

Let me (us ) know.

-- November 19, 2006 9:23 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carl,

Will be in NM.

If Ian comes up with another and better model, I can accept that, but I want to see what's in store. have a feeling it will be very complex and a lot of abbreviations,possibly he will throw in so many financial abbreviations he can, in an effort to throw me off.

I have a feling that the purpose with what he is coming with is not to add to the Dinar, but to solely try to sink me.

By all means give me a hauler tomorrow , probably best around 10 or thereabout.

-- November 19, 2006 9:51 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Maureen:

May I say, I appreicate the information you shared today. How has the rate of exchange opening between $1.15 and $1.45 been calculated? Where did your investment friends' oil buddy here this information?

In my mind an exchange rate of this magnitude will depend upon the amount of oil Iraq is pumping out. I do not believe an exchange rate of this sort can be accompished on 2 million barrels per day. Iraqi officials claim they will not reach 6 million bpd until 2010.

On the other hand, I hope I am completely wrong. At $470 million he certainly eclipses both Roger and Taxamama regarding Dinar holdings. Thanks again for the information it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 19, 2006 10:00 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Maureen,

Well your mother and I might not be two that could marry, and trust you can take distance to that affair. Interesting info you have about the Dinar, it seems like a very high RV, but hey I take it.

I trust you should know that those figures though is an estimate as good as any.

An RV in the vicinity of a Buck or more, considering the wages in Iraq, would make every street sweeper in Iraq an upper class citizen with the income he now would get.

A normal wage over there is between 1-300 Dollars a month. Lets count on 200 Dollars and today exchange value of 1452 Dinars to the Dollar. This will put him in the range of over 29.000 Dollars a month in wages.

Reasonable would be in the vicinity of 5 to 15 cents. That will change his income to about 3000 a month in Dollar value.

But don't get me wrong, if the ONE Dollar plus RV comes, I'll take it. This could be done with a nationwide, price and wage adjustment.

-- November 19, 2006 10:09 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Rob:

If you believe the 1.15 to 1.45 number I have some beaver furs for sale..worn only once by the beaver.. the price will jump 600% after you buy them...

-- November 19, 2006 10:11 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Yes you're right, a baiter is someone that sets you up. Oh by the way, haven't been talking with you for a long time, but I can see you mention my name more than often. I have not bugged you or done anything now, leaving you alone, but you're right at it.

-- November 19, 2006 10:18 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

All,

Don't go with Carls offer to sell his fur, I once bought some ocean side property from him in Wyoming.

There was no ocean there, but the sad part of it all, he didnt tell me that.

-- November 19, 2006 10:22 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

There is a blog meter, go to the lower left corner, there is a little square there, with a colored bar, or a flag, saying "site meter" There is a number just underneath it.

I don't think it will tell how many are on the blog right now, or how many it was today, I do believe it is a meter over the total hits the blog have had since it started.

I guess a close estimate could be had by counting the hits from day to day.

-- November 19, 2006 10:35 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Maureen,

Read it over again, and suddenly a very important piece of info popped out.

You said they (the oil companies)are waiting for the RV so they can truly start to drill for oil.

This is significant, because if the criteria for starting drilling is an RV, this will put the
RV date much closer.

I can see why the need for an RV is neccesary before any bigger oil construction takes place. The need is not within the oil companies, but the Iraqi's.

If the oil companies are start hiring Iraqis en masse to the oil fields. Their wages will be very very low. It will be almost a free work force for the oil companies. The oil companies would for sure love it, but the Iraqis would not go for it.

This particular data have most probably been discussed beween the Iraqis, and the oil companies. And now you're hearing it, from your friends in the oil business.

Assuming this is not a rumor, but a true and valid data that have been given to you, this will confirm a closer RV than expected.

The Iraqis are eager to have the pumps going, and are right now in the process of enacting the HCL's (sorry Maureen, you have not been here for that long, HCL's means Hydro Carbon Laws), that will enable the Iraqis and the Big Oil companies to start signing contracts.

This will coincide with the Debt reduction program, a prerequisite from the IMF, for being a full fledged member.

So this little piece of data proved to be a nugget Maureen. Well done!

Dinars here we come....get em while you can.

-- November 19, 2006 11:52 PM ∞

---

panhandler wrote:

Roger: Does this mean you'll join Okie and I in Phuket for Tiger Prawns. . .just curious. . .PH

Carole: I'm not offended, it's just that I've been over here for the better part of 2 years and I've watched the dinar sit everyday at 1469.5 for months on end, and when I heard that it was at 1449, I assumed that that was a significant jump, as a matter of fact, yesterday it was at 1448.15. . . and like everyone else I want to attend the "pig roast" in Key West. . .WTDH. . . PH

-- November 20, 2006 12:39 AM ∞

---

anonymous wrote:

Hi, all. Carole and Oakie and Rob N and Roger and Carl and Laura Parker and Valerio and Neil and Sara M and Turtle and Chris and Panhandler and now Maureen and Ian, how are you?

Just a few comments on the war in Iraq. Following the news, America seems at a bit of a crossroads, on how and if to continue to fight the war in Iraq.

In my opinion, thankfully the control of that war, as far as I can tell, is in the hands of President Bush, who seems to have a steady hand. He will ignore the temporary political winds that blow, and continue his efforts till his term expires. Since he is commander in chief, this is his perogative.

It seems to me that America can yet be successful in Iraq, in it's goals, but it needs to change tactics.

The Shiite death squads seem and interesting problem, getting in the way of stability in Iraq. Recently, the Maliki has asked the American Army to pull back from taking on Sadr. Maliki needs Sadr for political support, of course. I don't really believe leaving Sadr alone is Maliki's true wish. My guess is, what the Maliki government wants is the Americans to go in, take on the Shiite militias, "against the Iraqi government's wishes", and wipe them out.

This would allow the Maliki government to deny culpability, for the necessary bloodshed.

So far, President Bush has not opted for this approach. He has said publically the government of Iraq is sovereign, and must be respected. I generally trust his judgement, but I wonder if this is a mistake?

When will a tough Iraqi leader who can control the situation in the ground emerge? Who knows, but my guess is, not till the renegade militias are taken out.

It seems to me the basic problem has to do with rules of engagement. There is some talk of increasing troop levels right now, especially from John McCain, but what he hasn't said, is why? Why would this be new situation be any different than what exists now? Would American troops be free to kill Iraqis who dress in civilian dress who plant IEDs? Would they be able to kill Iranian and Syrian infiltrators who come across the boarders of those countries?

They should be. It's obvious to everyone that Iran and it's proxy, Syria, have been at war with the United States for a long time. It is an unconvential war, but it is definitely a war. Iranian leaders have been saying as much for over twenty years. I think it would be wise for Americans to realize that conventional war is only one particular method of war.

As I have said in previous posts, Arabs and Muslims have been at war with the West, more or less continuously, for over a thousand years, since the inception of Islam. These people know about war. The only exception to this constant warfare against the West was the last century, century and a half, when the West achieved such a technological dominance that Muslim countries were incapable of continuing that war.

Americans, on the other hand, no offence, seem to be the world's first superpower that has some sort of attention deficit disorder, or ADD. Too much fast food, I think. A few years into a war, and a lot of American leaders are giving up? Give me a break. I can tell you, in the long run of history, America will never win against Muslim radicals unless they change their short term thinking. History is a little longer than a Three's Company re-run.

And how many insurgents are the Americans facing? The reports I have read say, it is about 10,000. That's it. That's not a lot. Of course, like the Indians in the old West, the insurgents in Iraq are fighting unconventional warfare, with small groups of hit and run units that can seem to do a lot of damage.

Here's the thing. The whole world is watching this war. They are watching the Islamists. They are judging both. They are asking questions, like, who is stronger? Will America run from ten thousand crazy Arabs?

America ran from Vietnam. They ran from Somalia. They sorta half finished the first Gulf War. During the 1999 Kosavo war, the Americans bombed from the air, seeming not to want to do the hard, tough grunt work of war, man to man. Now the Islamists think the Americans will run from the Sunni Triangle. Osama bin Laden has said many times that America is a paper tiger. Once the casualties pile up, America runs. Is he right?

It took 50,000 casualties to get the Americans to withdraw from Vietnam. Will America run from Iraq after 5,000 casualties? What about the next war? Maybe after 500 casualties? Then 50? Then maybe America will just refuse to get off the couch?

Please don't take this as a slight against the American military, who I have the utmost respect for. They are the best of the best. They can and will do their job, if the American government will let them. I have no doubt about that. My criticism is mostly at that part of the American leadership elite, in the Democratic Party, for the most part, who could care less if America wins this war. This attitude is, in my opinion, a big mistake.

This war is not really just about Iraq. Not by a country mile.

This war will set the tone for the rest of this century, in terms of America's relationship with the rest of the world. America's success or failure, and willpower are being judged in the capitals of the other players for future world leadership. That is, in China, India, and Russia. Americans should not assume they will always be global leaders. If they lose their will, they won't be.

China will have an economy the same size as the United States in about 30 years, and will eventually have an army as sophisticated as the American one, and India is not far behind. These countries would be more than willing to lose a few million troops in any future conflict, over political and economic dominance, if America loses it's will.

Islamists, of course, are judging American will. In late September, 2001, Mullah Maulana Inyadullah, gave an interview with a British newspaper, explaining his Islamist beliefs. He said, in reference to "The Great Satan", that is America, "They love Pepsi. We love death"

My suggestion to Americans, is that you need to give yourself what you love, and give the Islamists what they love.

So, summing up so far, I hope American takes the gloves off, in the short term. I hope they go full tilt against anyone who is destabilizing Iraq, including troublemakers dressed as civilians, Shiite militias, and insurgents of all kinds, and people crossing borders. And America should think long term, and get a little more serious.

Another good thing would be, as I have written before, when the time is right, retreat to military bases removed from the cities and towns. Let your enemies settle old scores, even if it means bloodshed of a few hundred thousand, or a few millions. Ultimately, Americans cannot solve every problem in Iraq. Many of the basic probles arise from gross and barbaric defects in Muslim culture and theology. Retreating to military bases would continue in the long run to extend American influence in the region, without a lot of casualties.

I was watching Charlie Rose the other day, interview a former British Ambassador to the United States, who suggested much the same thing, so I'm guessing this option is being discreetly discussed at the White House and Pentagon.

Part of this approach is only possible if America starts to embrace a wider view of war. This is not your daddy's war. Nor your grampa's war. There is no coherent, civilized culture, with rational rules of conflict, and a rational cohesive elite to control things. Iraq is a fractious, religiously torn country, with a long way to go to heal, as a civil society. This war will not be won, like a football game, after a short afternoon, with well drawn out rules. America needs to give up the notion that if the world is not perfect, within a few years, that somehow things are going bad, or that they have "lost".

America has not and cannot lose any conflicts, with the Islamists, unless the Americans decide to pack their bags and leave. This is an odd sort of war. Even though the Americans have not lost any major battles, the war continues. That is the very nature of an insurgency. This confuses many Americans, who think of war in conventional terms. "If we have won all the battles, why isn't the war over?" is the typical, simplistic question coming from critics of the war, who can't get their minds around the nature of this conflict.

Well, I'm glad to see this post is being kept up. I get back here as often as I can, and always enjoy the many insightful comments by many contributors. Thanks for all your thoughts, that help keep me informed.

-- November 20, 2006 12:50 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

That last post was mine. Thanks.

-- November 20, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

That last post was mine. Thanks.

-- November 20, 2006 12:54 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Oh, and one more note. I believe that, whatever the religious differences of human beings, that they all respond to material things in basically the same way. When I lived in Vancouver, British Columbia, I had friends who were Chinese, Iranian, Iraqis, aboriginal Canadians, Indians from India, including Sikhs, Hindhus and Muslims, and Ethiopians and Japanese and Guatamalians.

One thing they all had in common: They all loved stuff. They loved cars, stereos, they loved their houses.

The love of stuff binds all cultures, even Muslim ones.

The best, yet unconventional war strategy, would be to revalue the dinar. While they dinar is so low in value, the average Iraqi cannot afford to buy stuff.

That needs to change. I firmly believe that part of the key to peace is to give people stuff, and keep them busy.

Other than a minority of nutjobs in Islamic societies, most Muslims, just like us, just want their shiny toys.

I lived for a while in Toronto, Canada, which is the most ethnically diverse large city, over a million, in the world. And everyone gets along, even if a lot of immigrants come from countries where most people hate other people, from other ethnic groups, with hatred going back forever and a day.

I was watching people once in Toronto, on a hot summer day, at a prominant square in downtown Toronto, while I was sitting in a coffee house, I sat for over an hour, it is a very busy area of the city, and I was watching thousands of Canadians go by, of every race, creed and religion. I watched these people with fascination. I was having a cup of coffee, reading the paper, about a genocide in some Third World Rathole, and I looked up, watched all the people, many of whom were from those Ratholes. I wondered. What was so special about Canada? Why do we get along?

Then I watched a successful looking black couple get out of their Lexus, and walk by me, and into a fancy and costly Italian shoe store.

I watched the people walk by, and everyone seemed so busy, and well dressed. Everyone was going into nice shops and buying all sorts of stuff.

Then I thought, this is not high end physics I am trying to understand. Most people are fairly simple. Keep them busy. Make sure they can buy lots of stuff. Then they will be peaceful.

Revalue the dinar! What a great war strategy! Give Iraqis the coin so that, like everyone else, they can buy nice stuff!

Then, sooner or later there will be peace.

And when that happens, everyone who owns dinars will be able to buy more stuff, or help people they wish they could help.

And then, everyone wins.

-- November 20, 2006 1:41 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: An RV would also mean less black market hits on the oil industry. The economy can afford a cost increase for oil. The blackmarket cannot make as much profit so it is reduced. The oil companies get more profit. Makes sense to me. Of course, I want to see the RV so I may be biased.

-- November 20, 2006 2:01 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Tim:
One of the finest articles I have seen posted on the board in quite sometime...

-- November 20, 2006 5:13 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Today's exchange rate

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 809 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Monday 2006 / 11/ 20 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 12 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1449 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 56.765.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 56.765.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------ -----

-- November 20, 2006 7:46 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Hopefully their intent of bringing in more troops will be to kill off the armed militia groups....bye bye Al-Sadr!!
===================================================================
Pentagon review sees 3 options in Iraq
More training of Iraqi troops a likely focus

By Thomas E. Ricks

Updated: 29 minutes ago
The Pentagon's closely guarded review of how to improve the situation in Iraq has outlined three basic options: Send in more troops, shrink the force but stay longer, or pull out, according to senior defense officials.

Insiders have dubbed the options "Go Big," "Go Long" and "Go Home." The group conducting the review is likely to recommend a combination of a small, short-term increase in U.S. troops and a long-term commitment to stepped-up training and advising of Iraqi forces, the officials said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15773985/

-- November 20, 2006 8:26 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts....

Interesting comments on “stuff” and how people respond to things when they have more in their life. I’ve never been to Vancouver but spent some time in Toronto and saw the ethnic mix you described.

I’m currently in Oil Patch USA, A.K.A. Houston, Texas and we have a fairly broad ethnic mix down here also. It’s ironic how people change when they’re in a different environment. I have friends who are working in Nigeria and one of their concerns is the fact that the locals are kidnapping workers off the drilling platforms. But here in Houston I just bought a car and the salesman was from Nigeria. Guess what his top priorities were?.....you betcha, making more money so he could afford a better place to live and bringing his wife and son over from Nigeria. He had a very positive attitude so I know his dreams will come true here in the “land of the free and home of the brave”.

Getting more money in the hands of the Iraqis will have the same effect…..let’s talk about a new TV and dining room table today instead of killing someone….OK!!

-- November 20, 2006 9:27 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi Tim,

Long time no see!

I really enjoyed your post, as usual. But I have a few thoughts on your conclusions.

First of all, even though Bush is the commander in chief, it is COngress that appropriates the funds. They have the power now. And their are quite few who have been given leadership positions to cause the whole country to come to a standstill, and not only on the war issues. The consequences of the election go very deep and wide. This is why the results resonated throughout the world. They have a global as well as a national agenda. It will be their full intention to pull out of the war immediately, to raise taxes, deadlock any futherance of a conservative social agenda ( SUpreme Court Justices, etc,)and as teh frosting begin a progression of investigations and indictments on as many Republicans as possible, starting with the president, to set the stage for the Presidential elections in 2 years.

I heard some Republican leaders talk about their strategy to take back the COngress in 2 years. It will never happen! They were asleep at the wheel and zigged when they should have zagged. It will take a generation to turn that around and by that time it will be too late.

I so hope I am wrong, but unless the Repubs. are willing to do dirty poiltical tatics, like the Demos they are doomed.

By the time we get to the next election, all of the issues that will surface will cause the resurrection of a third party, like the Ross Perrot days and that electorate that will have been turned off to the 2 main parties will go to the third and cause a Democratic victory. If it wasn't such a disaster for this country , I could procalim, the Rep. got what they deserved. Those who forget the past are doomed to relive it.

Now about people loving things. I agree for the most part. But with Islamic followers, who live and think so differently and are so indoctrinated, things are the devils advocate. There are some who will fallout of the mainstream and be intruguied with things.

Even here in the US the Muslims drive the Mercedes, and have the big houses, but when you fo inside of them they look and smell like camel sht.

When I was reading that part of your post, my mind went immediately tothe ROdney King story. The guy had his chance at fame and wealth, but today he is bankrupt, in jail and has returned to his roots. T he fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

I beleive that things are the byproduct of new thinking, education and ethics that have to be "cleaned out" of a persons heritage. That takes alot of time. Not just things.

Like anyother immigrant that has come to this country , it is the children and their children's children, that eventually dilute the stigmas of the original culure.

It was a strong America that was the Political, Social, and religious model that the citizens of the world sought after. Do we still offer that dream?? Or are we seen as fools who are on a path to destruction?

Gosh! I think I have totally depressed myself.Time for some Sees candy!!

-- November 20, 2006 10:18 AM ∞

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Maureen wrote:

Roger,

If the pre-war value of the dinar was 3.45 why would a new RV of 1.15 make the people of Iraq so rich? I am sure they do not have millions of dinars in their own accounts as we have. Also, they will not be exchanging their dinars for us currency as we will be doing after the RV. If their dinar was worth more they would have better buying power and there inflation would be more under control. I don't think the Iraqis were all wealthy before the war when the dinars was 3.45 and the Kuwaitis are not wealthy with their own currency which I believe is now over $3.00. Anyway, I don't how they came up with the figure but that is the figure I have been told the dinar will RV at since this summer.

Maureen

-- November 20, 2006 11:57 AM ∞

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Alpine, Ca wrote:

I have a quick question? I have 25,000 and 10,000 denominations. One side is in english, why is that and do I have authentic currency? I got all of it from safedinar. Thanks

-- November 20, 2006 12:25 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Alpine,Ca......

One side is in English because it's an international currency and the Iraqis do a lot of business with the Western world.

Go to the Central Bank of Iraq link below to see all Iraqi notes, front and back, for comparison with the notes you purchased. I would imagine your notes are the real thing.

http://www.cbiraq.org/cbs5_a.htm

-- November 20, 2006 1:24 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Panhandler,

I have planned for at least one party in the Keys, the Pig Roast, ( we must make sure it's pig), for Thailand......well, you might talk me into it. Hey even if you and Okie are doing the Thai thing, both of you must come to the Key Pig Roast.OK??

-- November 20, 2006 1:29 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger & Panhandler.....

I hope you guys realize that every time I hear the mention of Thailand my eyes glaze over and my mind leaps out into space. From that point forward....any work is outta here.

I plan on attending every pig roast possible. That might be my next career....professional pig roast attendee...what a way to go!!!

-- November 20, 2006 1:38 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Alpine,

I hang out in next county, have been in Alpine, it's such a small county, when there is jury duty, the Sheriff just go out and grab whoever on the street. Just across the Hotel, there was a man once having a more or less junk yard, I don't think he sold anything because he believed everything he had was worth millions, so all his junk cars piled up.It's been removed now, so I assume he either got the order to move, or died off or went belly up.

Have stopped by many times in the Pony Express junction and had a Soup and Sandwich.

If you bought from SafeDinar, you can be sure it's the genuine thing.It's a somewhat expensive agency, but considered probably to be the best.

Did you know that now days you can order Dinars from Chase One, Wells Fargo, and Rumor has it that B of A also does it.

My stomping ground is the Mother Load area.

-- November 20, 2006 1:39 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

I must acknowledge you for your brilliance. I really mean it, few people have the ability to tie everything together in one thought train as you are able to do. Whether it's agreeable or disagreeable ( for the very most part I fully agree with you) , your point is well laid out, you are truly appreciated.

-- November 20, 2006 1:45 PM ∞

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Paul wrote:

2 hours ago

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prior to a meeting ...
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iran has invited the Iraqi and Syrian presidents to Tehran for a weekend summit with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to hash out ways to cooperate in curbing the runaway violence that has taken Iraq to the verge of civil war and threatens to spread through the region, four key lawmakers told The Associated Press on Monday.

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has accepted the invitation and will fly to the Iranian capital Saturday, a close parliamentary associate said.

The Iranian diplomatic gambit appeared designed to upstage expected moves from Washington to include Syria and Iran in a wider regional effort to clamp off violence in Iraq, where more civilians have been killed in the first 20 days of November than in any other month since the AP began tallying the figures in April 2005.

The Iranian move was also a display of its increasingly muscular role in the Middle East, where it already has established deep influence over Syria and Lebanon.

"All three countries intend to hold a three-way summit among Iraq, Iran and Syria to discuss the security situation and the repercussions for stability of the region," said Ali al-Adeeb, a lawmaker of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's Dawa Party and a close aide to the prime minister.

Both Iran and Syria are seen as key players in Iraq. Syria is widely believed to have done little to stop foreign fighters and al-Qaida in Iraq recruits from crossing its border to join Sunni insurgents in Iraq. It also has provided refuge for many top members of Saddam Hussein's former leadership and political corps, which is thought to have organized arms and funding for the insurgents. The Sunni insurgency, since it sprang to life in late summer 2003, has been responsible for most of the U.S. deaths in Iraq.

Iran is deeply involved in training, funding and arming the two major Shiite militias in Iraq, where Tehran has deep historic ties to the current Shiite political leadership. Many Iraqi Shiites spent years in Iranian exile during Saddam's decades in power in Baghdad. One militia, the Badr Brigade, was trained in Iran by the Revolutionary Guard.

An Ahmadinejad spokesman said that Talibani's visit was scheduled several weeks ago for late November to work on improving bilateral relations. But Majid Yazdi told the AP that he had no information on a coming visit by the Syrian leader.

But Talabani confidants said the invitation was issued on Thursday by Iranian Ambassador Hassan Kazimi Qumi, who said Syrian President Bashar Assad also would be in Tehran for the talks with Ahmadinejad

-- November 20, 2006 2:10 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Maureen,

Yes the prewar value of the Iraqi Dinar, ( or lets say pre Saddam Value) was around 3.5, and that holds true for most of the countries in the region.

Kuwait for example was a completely different affair.

At the time the oil wells was burning you could buy the Kuwait Dinar for I believe it was 6 or 7 cents, and within a year they were straight back to about 3 Dollar 50 Cents again.

Kuwait was a relatively easy fix. Send in the oil workers and fix the well heads, pipes and open the taps, and the country was up and running again. On top of it all, most of Kuwaits money was not in the country, when Saddam invaded, but was tied in foreign investments.

When Saddam and his cronies was kicked out, there was more a matter of reconstruction, done by a homogeneous population, that had the money, purpose, goal and ambition to do it.

Iraq is a completely different ballgame, any comparison with Kuwait is moot.

Under Saddams long regime, the whole society fell into decay. This have progressed to the point that a long and hopeless decline ended up in a completely worthless Dinar. The Dinar was changed to the new Dinar, the one you are holding, without Saddams picture on it.

So at this moment you have a disturbed, but at least reasonable functioning society in Iraq, where the value of the currency, the wages and the cost of things, in number dont match the surrounding countries.

Eventually they will get there, but in the meanwhile some very interesting phenomenon will pop up, like the one mentioned yesterday, that if they revalue to over 1 dollar, the purchase value of each Iraqi citizen will be in the vicinity of 29-30.000 dollar per month, if they don't change anything else other than the exchange value of the currency.

Of course , they will not rush out and buy Dollar for the currency, because they will already hold a currency in their hand with that value, so swapping paper for paper is of course meaningless.

Most probably the Iraqis will RV to somewhere in the vicinity of 5 to 15 cents, that will get prices, wages in good condition. They cant go too far away from it's true international value, and as the Iraqi Dinar is untested, (never been on the Forex, that is, never freely traded) the true value will remain unknown until that happens.

I thought of it yesterday, after answering your post....how could the Iraqis possibly actually do a reval, in the vicinity of a buck and get away with it.

This is how they could do it.

Earlier there was an option, now dead, that proposed that the Dinar would have a couple of Zeroes cut off, so 1000 Dinars would equal ONE Dinar instead. It was very impractical, to change out the whole currency again, and as the original printers of the currency had such a wide spread on the denominations, that option is no longer an issue, but it would do the thing you're looking for. Get the numbers in range.

Right now, a worker over there gets, lets say, 200 Dollars/ month, that times 1450 = 29.000 Dinars.

Ok, In Iraq right now, he will actually walk home with Dinar bills saying 29000 on them.

You get things by exchange, of comparable magnitude.

A street sweeper does not have the exchange in effort or value to the point of letting him have a new car every month.

I'ts just not worth it. The monetary exchange factor will be pretty screwed in Iraq if I may say so, I'm sure you can see where this is leading.

So, this might be a very real and very doable way to do it.

1. Make an RV in the vicinity of a Buck.

2. Make a proclamation all over Iraq, that on this day on, all prices and wages MUST be cut to 10% of earlier figure.

So , that would mean, his wages would be 2900/month, and as all the prices are cut by 10% as well, his BUYINGPOWER would stay in par. The Dinar is now worth a buck. and will buy soo much more stuff from the out side world. Suddenly, we get into the phenomenon Tim Bitts were getting to.

We all love toys, we would have plenty of toys , now in a very affordable range, and the whole RV to 1 Buck would have been completed.

If it have to go to 1 Buck, I would do it in that way.

The bonus here would be that the Iraqis last paycheck of 29000, would give him a very very high welcome entrance to the new system, as the bills would not change.

-- November 20, 2006 2:27 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ian, Did I copy anything there?

-- November 20, 2006 2:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Might be gone for a while now, ya all take care now.

-- November 20, 2006 2:35 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks for the interesting rumor information, Maureen.
Thanks, Tim, for the great post..
and I appreciate all the rest for your good posts, too.

Carl, this article today fit with your saying the Arabs/Islamics should be involved in Iraq more..
that they should be part of the solution...
This shows that at least they are thinking that way.

League plans summit
19 Nov 2006

Baghdad: Mukhtar Lamani, the Arab League Envoy to Iraq, told Gulf News: "Serious movements are under way by the Arab League to hold a summit on the Iraqi issue."

There are also European efforts to organise an international conference on Iraq.

"Both conferences may be held simultaneously, because of the increasingly deteriorating security situation in Iraq. Everyone in the Iraqi government and outside, are extremely angry at the level of deterioration," he said.

"The international and regional solution is an open option now, not to save the US from its predicament in Iraq, but to save Iraq from very serious repercussions," he said.

The envoy stated that deploying Arab and Islamic forces in Iraq is being seriously considered in the event of a US withdrawal from Iraq.

"Arab and Islamic forces will be accepted by Iraqis, instead of the US and foreign forces present in Iraq today," he added.

Some leaders in the disintegrated Baath party in Baghdad said that the existence of Arab and Islamic forces in Iraq will be supported by the Baath leadership, inside and outside Iraq.

These leaders told Gulf News that certain Arab countries have in fact asked the Baathists about their stand only to find a positive response. This Islamic-Arabic deployment will be in Sunni cities where the Baath party still has a lot of influence.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidGN10083636/SecCountries/pagIraq/chnIraq%20News/obj2240355D-8F1A-11D4-867000D0B74A0D7C/

-- November 20, 2006 3:08 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Pentagon Sees 3 Options for Iraq: 'Go Big,' 'Go Long' and 'Go Home'
Monday, November 20, 2006

WASHINGTON — Senior Defense Department officials are mapping out a new strategy for Iraq defined by insiders as "go big," "go long" and "go home," according to a newspaper report.

Monday's edition of The Washington Post says a secret review commissioned by Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace outlines three alternatives for Iraq: sending in more troops for a short-term blitz, shrinking the force on the ground but staying longer or ditching Iraq and pulling out.

The three options are "very similar to ideas expressed in public" by military officials, a senior military official told FOX News. Since September, Pace has been meeting at least once a week with 16 colonels and captains just back from Iraq to develop options, taking into consideration "where we are, what's the desired end state and how to get there."

At some point, Pace will draft his own conclusions and forward them to the administration. An official who spoke on condition of anonymity told the newspaper that the group conducting the review is likely to recommend a combination of the first two options, but favors going long.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230702,00.html

-- November 20, 2006 3:33 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Carl:

Read my post again. I initially questioned the RV opening at $1.15 to $1.45. In my closing I simply said I hope I am wrong. I will pass on those furs this time.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 20, 2006 3:41 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Carl:

Please read my post a second time. I did not say I believed the Dinar would RV by January between $1.15 to $1.45.

I question the plausibility of such and RV, but I did say I hope I am wrong. I will pass on the furs.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 20, 2006 3:44 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

EU and Iraq launch negotiations for a Trade and Cooperation Agreement
November 20th, 2006

On 20 November, the European Commission and the Iraqi government will open in Brussels the negotiations for a Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) between the EU and Iraq.

The negotiations will be launched by Commissioners Ferrero-Waldner and Mandelson, on behalf of the Commission, and by Barham Salih, Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister for Economic Affairs, on behalf of Iraq. The TCA will help to progressively strengthen the EU’s relations with Iraq and integrate the country in the world economy.

By entering into negotiations for contractual relations with Iraq, the EU aims to:

* Facilitate Iraq’s engagement with the international community and with the EU in particular, to the benefit of the internal and regional stabilisation process.
* Stimulate and anchor ongoing institutional and socio-economic reforms at both policy and operational levels.
* Contribute to the socio-economic development of Iraq and to the improvement of living conditions in the country.
* Promote bilateral trade relations in accordance with WTO principles.
* Ensure a minimum level of predictability, transparency and legal certainty for economic operators.

Background

Since 2003, the European Commission has contributed €720 million towards the reconstruction of Iraq with a focus on assisting Iraqi people in accessing basic services, furthering democracy, and promoting good governance. In 2006, the Iraqi government has proposed that a Compact be developed to build a new partnership between Iraq and the international community. The Commission supports this initiative, which should aim to promote political, economic and social development in the country. Lately, the Commission has also stepped up its presence in Baghdad and has opened a Delegation.

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_relations/iraq/intro/index.htm

http://www.welcomeurope.com/default.asp?id=1300&idnews=3472

-- November 20, 2006 3:51 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Got time for one more. Yes absolutely, well you are true in that point that you, thus, me and probably all of us on this site is very biased when it comes to getting that RV off the ground. We would do well.

Leaving the Bias aside, (oh that's hard), they absolutely NEED an RV, the current slow rise in value is at slugs pace, and will only compensate for fractions o fractions, enough to at least get a grip on the inflation, but it doesn't change the picture that the Dinar is so enormously hopelessly undervalued that the Iraqis are close to starvation. Read in an article that there is about ten millions of Iraqis that are living on ONE Dollar a day.

My deep suspect is that the vast majority of Iraqis involved in insurgency is from the lower classes, and can see no future or have any hope on surviving, or even see a possible change in their future life.

An RV getting a lot of buying power, will increase all the HAVE in Iraq with a snap.

Once people can HAVE they seem happy, Tim Bitts article above was an excellent one with that regards.

An RV would transform big areas of the Iraqi society from HAVE NOT, despair, hopelessness. To HAVE, and content.

What you are referring to, oil corruption, will be easier to handle if people HAVE, if they don't HAVE, they will feel compelled to TAKE.

It seems also that as we have on this blog, discussed this subject back and forth, that our, as a groups, reality on this is very high, compared with any other political, or military solution that is presented in other circles.

A noisy dog, you can whip the dog, or toss him a bone.

Hey, Turtle, nothing of big significance in the news came out from Iraq yesterday, you say that there are some big news announcements, or some other big things in the works right now.

Without being out secure, can you maybe slip us something?

You're the only active man on the ground over there that is on the blog, Lance have been invisible for quite some time, and Outlaw is also busy doing something that keeps him from posting.

Whatever happened with Outlaw, you were going to check out about him, but I never heard anything more on this, is he still around?

In the meanwhile, you're the only one holding our line open straight into Iraq for us, and I want you to know that I (and I'm sure I can , WE) are very appreciative for you being there.

We are all aware that you have a slow download time, and limited time, so even if your postings are short, it's fine.

Take care Turtle.

-- November 20, 2006 3:56 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Nortel wins $20-million US contract for Iraq fibre optic network
Monday, November 20, 2006
The Canadian Press

Nortel (TSX:NT) has won a $20-million US contract to build a new fibre optic network for Iraq Telecommunications & Post Corporation.

The 5,000-kilometre network will deliver high bandwidth data, video and multimedia services in 35 cities throughout Iraq, the Iraqi corporation said in a statement.

The new network will link to another one that Toronto-based Nortel built between Baghdad and Basra in 2004 as part of the USAID-funded Iraq Reconstruction Program.

"Restoring and improving countrywide communications is vital for the reconstruction of Iraq," Simon Beard, Nortel's director of Middle East Business Development, said in the statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/11/20/nortel-iraq.html

-- November 20, 2006 4:11 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.iraqieconomy.org

DNO sees bigger Iraq oil discovery November 14, 2006 - Norway's DNO, the first foreign oil firm to drill in Iraq after the invasion, said its oil discovery in north Iraq is bigger than expected and confirmed production would begin in early 2007.
Shares in DNO jumped by as much as 5.6 per cent in early trade as investors cheered plans to launch production in the first quarter of 2007 despite Iraq's sectarian violence and uncertainties over rights to tap its oil riches.
DNO said the Tawke 2 well in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq has tested 3,840 barrels of oil per day, confirming a western extension of its Tawke oil discovery.
"Preliminary results from the well indicate increased reserves," DNO said in a statement.
DNO chief executive Helge Eide said the company would start production at two of its three wells in the Tawke discovery.
"We are now (planning to) start two of the three wells, so it (daily production) would not be far from 10,000 barrels, but we will not say anything exact now," Eide said.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 20, 2006 6:04 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

I thought this worth noting..
I suppose because it might hit close to home sometime soon?
Remember what I said about taking candy from a baby?
Did anyone notice this candy being carefully pried from your hand?
While proclaiming peace.. and a quick pullout of the troops from Iraq.. right?
Oh, do note this measure could go NOWHERE under the Republicans..
but now.. well, things are different:

Charlie Rangel (D-AQ) Vows To Bring Back The Draft
From a joyous Associated Press:

Democrat Rep. Rangel will seek to reinstate draft
By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

Rep. Charles Rangel D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars and to bolster U.S. troop levels insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There’s no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm’s way," Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.

In 2003, he proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election…

Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we’re going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can’t do that without a draft," Rangel said…

========

Just as we foretold.

But it’s only because of Mr. Rangel’s concern for the troops of course. It has nothing to do with trying to foment an anti-war movement like we had for Vietnam.

“Days Of Rage” here we come!

Say, where is the "Rock The Vote" crowd? Weren’t they and the rest of George Soros’ stooges spreading the lie that the Republicans intended to restore the draft if they won in 2004?

The "youth vote" turned out in record numbers on election day and apparently voted very heavily for the Democrats. (Remember, Rangel was going to retire if the Democrats didn’t win control of the House.)

Do you think they’ll ever notice they were lied to?

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/charlie-rangel-d-aq-vows-to-bring-back-the-draft

-- November 20, 2006 7:23 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

I found this interesting, too..
If you READ the actual caption under a picture of two anchors getting ready to air..
Who are they? Al Jazeera..
Where are they?

Weekend Captionfest: Al Jazeera in America
Posted by NB Staff on November 17, 2006 - 15:33.

http://www.image-upload.net/files/15/r2193826759.jpg

Actual caption:

Washington-based Al Jazeera anchors Ghida Fakhry (2nd L) and Dave Marash (2nd R) are assisted with their microphones as they prepare for a live news bulletin on the first day of Al Jazeera's International English language service from Washington November 15, 2006. Arabic television station Al Jazeera launched an English-speaking channel on Wednesday to report world news from a Middle East perspective and challenge the dominance of Western media.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9152

Would the Nazis have set up their network in Washington if we had today's news networks, too?
To give balance.. and the "other side" point of view?
Is it wrong to wonder about that "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" bit... ??
To bring it back on topic..
I wonder if it will affect how people see the ME.. and affect the fortunes of the Dinar investment?

Sara.

-- November 20, 2006 8:01 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S. says 100 fighters a month enter Iraq from Syria
Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:51 PM IST
By Ross Colvin

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Up to 100 foreign fighters cross into Iraq from Syria every month, the U.S. military said on Monday, as Syria's foreign minister held talks with Iraqi leaders to pledge his country's help in tackling insurgents.

U.S. and Iraqi officials have long accused Damascus of doing little to stem the flow of Islamist fighters and weapons across the long, porous border. Syrian officials say sealing the border is impossible and Iraq must do more to patrol its side.

"We don't know how much they (Syria) are assisting this effort, but we don't know how much they are trying to preclude it either," U.S. military spokesman Major General William Caldwell told reporters in Baghdad.

"We still see foreign fighters coming, between 70 and 100 a month coming across the Syrian border into Iraq," he said, figures in line with those of the past year.

He said U.S. and Iraqi soldiers had killed 425 foreign fighters so far this year and captured 670. Twenty percent of them were Syrian, a similar percentage Egyptian, and most of the rest from Sudan and Saudi Arabia.

Washington withdrew its ambassador to Damascus and says it will not authorise higher-level contacts because of Syria's suspected role in supporting violent militants, Iraqi insurgents and opponents of Lebanon's government.

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-11-20T234311Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-277102-1.xml&archived=False

-- November 20, 2006 8:29 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Found this link on another site.....interesting!!

http://www.usawakeup.org/

-- November 20, 2006 8:35 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

Rangel also stated that part of his reason for writing and seeking support of the draft was because in a all voluntary military, the minorities and low income citizens are targeted for service. This guy us such a ditz!! I wonder why the media ( even conservative media) didn't pick up on this. It was just a suger coated put down, with the same flavor of Kerry's--stuck in Iraq-- comment.

Part of the distaste to teh liberals regarding a voluntary military, is that they can't proclaim and distort subjects such as draft=dodging ( a small percentage during the Viet Nam war, but they made it seem like a massive amount of our young were draft dodging), and they can't interview the one out of thousands in the service expressing displeasure with serving in a war.

In a voluntary military they have lost alot of their propaganda material.

I also am amazed at how we are now bying into the fact that Amahadinejad is entering the political as an ambassador of a negotiation team. This is a joke. ANd many are falling for it. It reminds me of when Yasser Arafat spoke to the UN waving his banner of peace, while entering the chambers of the UN with an assault weapon at his side. By the way if you rememeber he got a standing ovation. All along he denounced the right of the Jewish nation of Israel to exist, as well as to suggest the destruction of the US, while taking millions from us in aid.

How is this advent of Ahmmadinejad any different?

Back to the basic tenents of the Islamic regime. And yes, back to the religious bases for their agenda. It never goes away, just puts on a different face. And the world is going to take the bait.

Speaking of bait--where is Ian?

(please excuse the typos, had lots of dental work today and oozzy on pain med.)

-- November 20, 2006 11:02 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Sara,

Are you familiar with the Hal Lindsey Oracle.com website?

-- November 20, 2006 11:11 PM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Roger: How soon we forget, you made me the official chef for the "pig roast", and what am I? a red-headed step-child. . .you seem to forget that I'm here on the ground as well. . .and Okie and I will work on you for the Tiger Prawn thing. . .

Okie. . .don't worry about the glaze thing. . .I'll help you along. . .i'm a professional traveler. . lol. . PH

-- November 21, 2006 12:46 AM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

All,
CBI buying back dinars, and paying more for them is a good sign. We may see the dinar rise to 1350:1 this year. If this does happen, the 1st half of 07 could be interesting. If you read my post back in Oct. you know what I mean when I say this could be the sprouts shooting forth, and the next thing we may see would be the spraying of the pesticide.
Can anyone comment on how oustanding loans would be handled in the Iraqi banking system in the event of a significant RV?

-- November 21, 2006 2:34 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Today's exchange rate

Announcement No.(810)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 810 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Tuesday 2006 / 11/ 21 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 15 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1446 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 50.115.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 50.115.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------

-- November 21, 2006 8:23 AM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Good to see this board deal more with the Dinar-which it was set up to do-rather than personals and religion. Some good info for once.

-- November 21, 2006 9:01 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S.-Iraqi raid in nets militia suspect
By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer Nov 21 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. and Iraqi forces raided Baghdad's Sadr City on Tuesday and detained seven militia members, including one believed to have information about an American soldier kidnapped last month, the military said.

Ahmed Qusai al-Taayie, a 41-year-old reserve soldier from Ann Arbor, Mich., was visiting his Iraqi wife in Baghdad on Oct. 23 when gunmen handcuffed him and took him away.

The U.S. command said the raid "detained an illegal armed group kidnapping and murder cell leader ... reported to have firsthand knowledge of the control and movement" of al-Taayie.

Six other suspected cell members also were detained, the military said.

Tuesday's raid was the third in four days by U.S. and Iraqi forces in the Sadr City, the headquarters of al-Sadr's Madhi Army, the heavily armed Shiite militia suspected of having carried out the mass kidnapping at a Ministry of Higher Education office in Baghdad on Nov. 14.

A rogue cell from the Mahdi Army militia also is suspected of having captured al-Taayie.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

-- November 21, 2006 9:49 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Would you have been comfortable travelling on this flight, when you knew they were very radically committed imams.. willing to brave public ridicule to do something in public for their faith?

Quote:

6 imams removed from Twin Cities flight
By STEVE KARNOWSKI, Associated Press Writer Nov 21 2006

MINNEAPOLIS - Six Muslim imams were removed from a US Airways flight at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on Monday and questioned by police for several hours before being released, a leader of the group said.

The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m., airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.

A passenger initially raised concerns about the group through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways. She said police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused.

Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.

Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.

"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.

The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said. The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed from the flight.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_us/passengers_removed

The problem is Americans not knowing enough about Islam?

Sara.

-- November 21, 2006 10:39 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Democrats Will Ensure Iraq is Another Vietnam
By Doug Patton (11/20/06)

A lot of voters in the recent midterm elections were not yet born when President Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace, taking with him a great many good and decent Republican members of Congress. The election of 1974 gave carte blanche to Democrats, most of whom were salivating to yank the nation to the left, socially, economically and militarily. For those of us who remember those post-Watergate days, 2006 has an eerily familiar feel to it.

In 1974, as that anti-war Congress prepared to take control of the national purse strings, the United States of America was engaged in a decades-long struggle with international communism. In 2006, as Nancy Pelosi and her current crop of Democrats prepare to take power in Congress, we are locked in a decades-long struggle against international terrorism. The central front of that struggle is said to be the cities and the deserts of Iraq, where thousands of my sons’ generation have laid down their lives in a war they, too, have not been allowed to win.

One of the first acts of the 94th Congress, which gaveled itself arrogantly into power in January 1975, was to de-fund the war in Vietnam. As James Robbins has opined in his recent post-election piece titled “Back to the Seventies,” posted at National Review Online, the 110th Congress likely will be more subtle in its approach to de-funding the war in Iraq, both because of a potential presidential veto and because withdrawing financial support of our troops would, in Robbins words, “appear reckless to the large portion of the electorate that was not motivated by antiwar fervor.”

However, there are signs that the liberal base of the Democratic Party will not wait long for the payback they think they deserve. many of the newly elected members of Congress believe the American people want: an unconditional surrender disguised as “redeployment.”

Democrats delighted during the campaign in comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam. The McGovern Caucus of left-wing nut jobs who are still in denial about our war with Islamic terrorism, want us out of Iraq yesterday. Of course, that pesky U.S. Constitution stands in the way of their complete control of U.S. foreign policy, so there is only one way they can accomplish their goal: cut off funding. They may not succeed, but they will try, because they believe it is in their interest to ensure that Iraq does, indeed, become another Vietnam.

http://www.americandaily.com/article/16456

-- November 21, 2006 11:00 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara…..

Regarding your post about the Muslims praying on the aircraft…

It’s typical Muslim thinking….I don’t respect your religion but you must respect mine.

Margaret Thatcher had a good understanding of the Muslims. I once read that when some dignitary (can’t remember who) from Saudi Arabia visited London he asked of her, “When will we hear the call to prayers from the mosques in London”, she replied, ”When we hear church bells ringing in Saudi Arabia”.

-- November 21, 2006 11:30 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: 2 weeks ago there was a moderately big military victory that had promise of a large victory looming. The first was never announced and the later has not materialised as far as I know. Thus, I hate ot leave ya hanging but I'm going ot drop that line until I hear more for certain.

You are right about militants being heavily from the poverty class. Increasing their wealth will definitely improve out ability to limit their ability to recruit. There will still remain a significant enemy though as there are many insurgents that actually seem to be fairly wealthy. I had friends driving back from Baghdad who got sprayed with AK-47 fire from guys in a BMW. There are also many reports of suicide bombers being given BMWs to blow up. So, limiting proverty will help our cause but there will still be a significant fight left.That said, I believe we could put this thing back under control within the next 12 months if things were changed to accomodate Gen Abizaid's transition team concept and Sen McCain'sincrease troops and lock it down ideas. Between the two and some other changes already in prgoress I think we could have stability in the next 6-8 months. 3 transition team officers have all agreed that this would be a plan for success and a very doable time frame. So... Cross your fingers and keep those dinar at hand. I'm done here in 6 months so that would be PERFECT time for a pig roast.

-- November 21, 2006 1:11 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Okie.. great quote, thanks!

Carole - thanks, too, for your comments on the Democrat seeking to put in a draft.

Thanks, Turtle.. here is a bit of encouraging news you never hear from the Mainstream Media about Iraq:

Rebuilding in Iraq tops 4,000 projects
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 20, 2006

When and if the smoke ever clears in Iraq, Pentagon officials say the world finally will see a minor miracle.
"Most Americans don't understand something equivalent to the Marshall Plan has been accomplished in Iraq," said Dean G. Popps, principal assistant secretary of the Army for acquisitions, logistics and technology.
The Army is the program manager for $20 billion in U.S. taxpayer money that flowed to Iraq after the 2003 invasion to spur a building boom of more than 4,000 projects.
Amid constant deadly threats from bloodthirsty insurgents, and without a viable Iraqi private contracting sector, the Army Corps of Engineers has supervised the construction of electric grids, health care centers, schools, water and sewage treatment facilities, police stations, academies and border posts.
Not counting the deteriorating security situation, no facet of the Iraq war has received more negative press than the U.S.- and Iraqi-financed reconstruction. The Washington Times, along with other newspapers, has published a series of articles on setbacks and corruption. But, the Pentagon contends there is another storyline.
"It's quite a heroic story maligned often by the news media," Mr. Popps said during an interview in his E-Ring Pentagon office. A nearby multicolored map designates hundreds of projects started and completed, from Mosul to Basra.

Mr. Popps said it is first important to understand what the rebuilding team inherited. U.S. intelligence knew little about the actual state of Iraq's energy infrastructure and social service network. When the Army Corps of Engineers got on the ground, there was shock:
• The three regional sewage treatments plants in greater Baghdad did not work; raw waste poured into the Tigris River and downstream through villages. Sadr City, the impoverished Shi'ite slum repressed by the ruling Sunni Ba'ath Party, lacked any sewage system. "Some slam the Americans because there is sewage in Sadr City," said an incredulous Mr. Popps. "Please."
• Few towns had a central supply of clean water.
• The electrical grid suffered under 1950s technology and disrepair. Saddam Hussein starved the rest of the country of power to give the capital of 6 million about 20 hours a day.
• The country lacked any primary health care facilities; hospitals and schools were run down and lacked supplies. New hospitals had not been built in 20 years. More than half the public health centers remained closed. Of 13,000 schools, more than 10,000 needed significant renovations.
The Pentagon in 2003 summoned American firms to get reconstruction started in the absence of Iraqi ministries that could supervise and a private sector that was in shambles under Saddam's totalitarian rule.
"The ministries were jammed with people who did nothing," Mr. Popps said. "They sat around and smoked and drank tea and held 'worry beads.' It was an economy based on incompetence and corruption."

Today, the Pentagon is handing out a score sheet:
• Six new primary care facilities, with 66 more under construction; 11 hospitals renovated; more than 800 schools fixed up; more than 300 police stations and facilities and 248 border control forts.
• Added 407,000 cubic meters per day of water treatment; a new sewage-treatment system for Basra; work on Baghdad's three plants continues; oil production exceeds the 2002 level of 2 million barrels a day by 500,000.
• The Ministry of Electricity now sends power to Baghdad for four to eight hours a day, and 10 to 12 for the rest of the country. Iraqis are now free to buy consumer items such as generators, which provide some homes with power around-the-clock.
Mr. Popps said all this was accomplished despite a concerted effort by terrorists to bomb construction sites and kill workers. The Army Corps has ferried reporters to what it considers successful sites in an effort to get a few positive stories on reconstruction. But rarely do any materialize, Mr. Popps said.

"You said accurately in your opening statement that not everything is wrong in Iraq, and that's true," Mr. Bowen responded. "A fair reading of our full report demonstrably underscores that fact. Indeed, 70 percent of the projects we've visited and 80 percent of the money allocated to them indicate that those projects, from a construction perspective, have met what the contract anticipated."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20061120-123520-8853r.htm

-- November 21, 2006 2:05 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Just following the story.. interesting.

Muslim scholar calls for airline boycott
Bob von Sternberg, Star Tribune
November 21, 2006

One of the Muslim scholars removed from a US Airways flight on Monday today called for imams around the country to boycott the airline after employees refused to sell him new tickets for his flight home.

On Monday, Omar Shahin and five other imams had gone to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport to fly home to Phoenix after attending a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation. Shahin is president of the group.

"They have no reason to refuse service to us just because of the way we look," he said "It’s terrible. We want America to stay the way it is because we love this country."

The supervisor asked Shahin to leave the ticket counter.

"This is prejudice," he replied. "This is obvious discrimination. No one can argue with this."

"I am calling for a boycott of US Airways because I’m not going to stay silent," said Shahin, who is Jordanian. "I came to this country to enjoy justice and freedom."

Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday’s events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur’an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating "Allah, Allah," he said.

All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said. As a result, the pilot called police to have the imams escorted from plane.

Airlines have the right not to allow passengers on a plane, Hogan said.

The imams were questioned by U.S. Marshals, the FBI and Secret Service and they were handcuffed, which is standard procedure, Hogan said.

"We did nothing" on the plane, Shahin said.

The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m. Monday, airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.

Police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused, Rader said.

Shahin said no one asked the six to leave, but when police arrived, the group complied.

Of the six Muslim scholars, five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., Shahin said.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations planned to file a complaint, said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper.

"Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it’s one that we’ve been addressing for some time," Hooper said.

Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included U.S. Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minneapolis, who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the FBI about their meeting in advance.

Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.

"If up to now they don’t know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/826056.html

-- November 21, 2006 4:57 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

1) "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward." - Anonymous

2) Real charity doesn't care if it's tax deductible or not.

3) Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no path and leave a trail. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

4) If you have a pocket with a hole in it, put your troubles in it.

5) You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.

6) Life is like a game of tennis-you can't win without serving well. - Unknown

7) Goals are dreams with deadlines.

8) There are no idle rumors. They are all busy.

8) "Snowflakes are one of nature's most fragile things, but just look what they can do when they stick together." - Vesta M. Kelly

10) America is a religious nation, but only because it is religiously tolerant and lets every citizen pray, or not pray, in his own way.

11) "We still do not know one thousandth of one percent of what nature has revealed to us." (Albert Einstein)

-- November 21, 2006 6:28 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

What a prediciment the U.S faces with the prospect of both Iran and Syria offering to help curb the violence in Iraq.

As I watch the evening news, I realize Iran and Syria are partnering in an attempt to gain supremacy in the middle east. They wish to keep the U.S. at bay in their quest for such dominence.

There really is not much the U.S. can do to stop this activity. I wonder if any major change in Iraq policy will come as a result of the Baker report. Each day passes with more violence and more bodies found. It is imperative the U.S. stop this insurgency and help Iraq gain control of its country.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 21, 2006 11:40 PM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Sara:

Dam! must you be so wordy?

You must not have a job.

-- November 22, 2006 1:35 AM ∞

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voice from the past wrote:

Sara:

Dam! must you be so wordy?

You must not have a job.

-- November 22, 2006 1:37 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Sarah,

The Corps is doing a lot of good things in Iraq and the press yawns or turns it into scandle

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Be back Saturday

***********************************************************
Todays exchange rate - Another drop

Announcement No.(811)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 811 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Wednesday 2006 / 11/ 22 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 11 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1444 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 11.435.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 11.435.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------

-- November 22, 2006 8:13 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Chris,

Thanks for the update. Someday it will say 1:1--can't wait.

Sara:

Enjoy your postings. I just wished I knew how to make the links that you do. I am not very computer savy. I read alot of articles, too but don't know how to do the things that you do to get them to the postings.

All:

How do you think Sen. Joe Liberman would do as the Rep. nominstion for Pres.2008?

I think I would be tempted to look at him as a serious contender who give the Demos. a very good run for their money.

I think his biggest challenge would be that he is a Jew. The fascioislamic nations hate us to begin with , and a Jew as President might be too scary for the American public.

I heard ( on talk radio) a very interesting description of Pres. Bush that has gotten me to thinking in a way I have not really done before.

George BUsh is an internationalist. His father was a key figure in the Trilateralist organization.

George BUsh presents the US as an "idea", ie the voice of freedom, benevolence, generosity, etc. etc.

He has failed to present us to the world as a sovereign nation. He has done this by his weak position on many issues, particualraly securing our borders, and dealing with Iran, North Korea, Syria, to name a few countries who would like to see our demise.

In his chance to strenghten our nation through the judicial process, he appointed pseudo conservative justices.

Also, in her book ( now dead because of 911) Linda Johnson, revealed the real desire of Hilary Clinton. It was not to be President, but to ultimately be appointed a Supreme Court Justice. The next few months will be interesting to see if she comes forth as a Pres. nominee or takes the judicial route.

Every time I turn on TV (MSN as well as my FOX channels) every one is saying the same thing: Empower the average Iraqi with a sound economy, will be the turning around of the insurgency problem. It will be harder to recruit those who otherwise out of necessity, join the militias.

I read that the only way for the Iraqi govt. to satisfy it's debt, to be able to meet the demands of the IMF would be for debt absolution from the many nations that have given huge loans. They can accomplish this by making "oil" deals with these nations.

Okay, this is where my brain has been the last few days.

From this point on I need to concentrate on the 28 people I have to cook for on Thanksgiving.

I am wishing that you all have a very blessed and happy Thanksgiving. Hug your families, remind them of those who are far away from us this Thanksgiving ( esp. our troops), and remind them that freedom isn't free!! And that God will bless us as families and nations who honor and serve Him. Teach the children to be bold when defending their country and faith. Something that will be a reality for them more than any other generation in this country.

Please try to reach out to the less fortunate and hungry this holiday. Your Turkey will taste a whole lot better!! if you do--I promise you that!! I am not preaching, or being pious, I just know that we get so busy, that sometimes our good intentions never really develop into actions. I need constant reminders to make my otherwise good intentions really count in someone else's life.

May God Bless and keep you throughout this Thanksgiving Holiday---and stock up on Pepto-bismo!!! :}

Carole

-- November 22, 2006 9:05 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Beckett says could hand Basra to Iraq govt in spring
Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:08 PM GMT

LONDON (Reuters) - Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said on Wednesday that Britain could hand over control of the Iraqi province of Basra to the Iraq government in spring next year.

"The progress of our current operation in Basra gives us confidence that we may be able to achieve transition in that province...at some point next spring," Beckett told Parliament.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-11-22T131405Z_01_L11746436_RTRUKOC_0_UK-BRITAIN-IRAQ.xml&WTmodLoc=Top+News-C1-Headline-1

-- November 22, 2006 11:20 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Bush, Maliki to discuss Iraq security in Jordan
Last Update: Thursday, November 23, 2006. 1:41am (AEDT)

US President George W Bush will discuss Iraq's volatile security situation with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Jordan next week November 29-30.

Mr Bush and Mr Maliki said in a joint statement that they will review a panel's discussions on the transfer of security from US troops to Iraqi forces as well as the role of Iraq's neighbours.

White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley said the summit would give the two leaders a chance to review the work of the joint commission, which was set up several weeks ago to study how to turn over more security responsibilities to Iraqi forces.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200611/s1795186.htm

-- November 22, 2006 11:29 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq Is Now The Democrats’ Problem, Not Dubya’s
Tuesday, 21 November 2006, 4:37 pm
Opinion: David Miller

According to news reports from Washington, George W. Bush is now an isolated figure. Having seen his party lose control of Congress, the President is being deserted by the same allies who supported his presidency and the war in Iraq. Men such as Kenneth Adelman, Newt Gingroch and John McCain – all of them conservatives who despite supporting the invasion are ducking for cover in an effort to save their own political skins. With the Neo-Cons in retreat and the Democrats on the charge, Mr. Bush has been conciliatory in his remarks and even somewhat proactive in his dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld. Yet does the Democrat victory in the recent mid term elections and the sight of friends ducking for cover really make much difference the President at this stage of his term in office?

The case put forward here is very little at all. If anything, the emphatic nature of the Democrat win means that the path may actually be smoother for Mr. Bush for the next 2 years than had the GOP held power. The reason behind this argument is that victory may become a poisoned chalice for the Democratic Party. They hold sway on Capitol Hill but they have become the party responsible for defining America’s exit strategy from Iraq as that was the platform on which they were voted into office.

Even if the Republicans held Congress, Mr. Bush would have spent the next two years trying to convince domestic and world opinion that the invasion was the correct thing to do and that the overthrown of Saddam was a much greater benefit to Iraq than the civil war and break up of the country and little else.

The Democrats do not carry that baggage but instead, they come into office with the impression that they will somehow get the US out of this nightmare. Hence they have the most to lose if they fail to achieve this goal. By stating that he is open to new Iraq ideas, sacking Mr. Rumsfeld and appearing conciliatory, the President is skillfully shifting the responsibility for ending the US involvement in Iraq to his opponents. It is almost an admission of failure but without the words. Another ‘honourable withdrawal’ will not be good for American confidence in its foreign and defence policies but after 2008 it will not be Mr. Bush’s problem. The Republican loss at the polls may be the most fortunate thing that has happened for Mr. Bush while residing in the White House and allowing the Democrats to find the solution, the most intelligent.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00384.htm

-- November 22, 2006 11:43 AM ∞

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cornish boy wrote:

hi all interesting reading have a look at this www.businias.co.uk

-- November 22, 2006 2:43 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, interesting post. Be careful what you wish for!

-- November 22, 2006 3:18 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

It was on a New Zealand site, that opinion.. and quoted by Middle Eastern sourced news, so it is not an American view.. and I think so, too. But, hey, it was an interesting opinion.

Sara.

-- November 22, 2006 3:44 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

All,
Tomorrow is our feast of Thanksgiving, be thankful for what you have. Enjoy your time with your family and make it count, leave the pooter off, and of coarse feast away all day! Consider our troops who are seperated from their families and their country in a desolate place.

-- November 22, 2006 5:53 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

I wanted to check in on this eve before Thanksgiving. God bless each one. Tomorrow is our national day of Thanks and I echo the sentiment of Valerio in saying a special prayer for our troops. May you all have a blessed day.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 22, 2006 7:35 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Panhandler,

I Knew you were in Thailand, but honestly I must have missed the fact that you were back to Iraq, I'm so sorry, you went back to Iraq, I thought you went from Thailand and then back to the US. OK that sets things in it's right order.

I will immediately execute the slave that wrote my post in my name.

Oh, no, you're the official Barbie chief, I really had the idea when you invited me to Thailand that you wanted perhaps this as the alternative to the Key Pig Roast.

Anyhow, the order is restored, you're re-confirmed as the official meat cutter, and you're coming to the Keys.

-- November 22, 2006 8:42 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends! I'm Canadian, so I already had my Thanksgiving, second Monday in October. Say a prayer for your political leaders, especially your President, for wisdom. Enjoy your time with friends and family.

-- November 22, 2006 9:21 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

All:

It is time to take a break from the political process in Washington,from the progress of the Dinar and from the Iraq situation and enjoy Thanksgiving and be thankful for the many benefits that we enjoy as a free people.

As an old timer on this site, I do believe that we are now seeing some signs of progress in the dinar (1444).

Again, happy Thanksgiving to all of you and lets continue the bickering on Friday.

-- November 22, 2006 10:56 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Happy Turkey to you all, at home or over there.

-- November 23, 2006 12:31 AM ∞

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panhandler wrote:

Roger: Thanx Roger, all is forgiven, Okie and I will be commuting from Phuket to the Keys, from the sounds of it I'm gonna have to be Okies "seeing eye dog" as his eyes will be glazed. . .God bless all of you on this Thanksgiving Day, I've already had my Thanksgiving meal, and I want to thank each and everyone of you for the support you show for our troops, I really enjoy working with these young Men and Women, and believe me the appreciate your support as well. . .Happy Thanksgiving again. . .Panhandler

-- November 23, 2006 4:45 AM ∞

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OZARK wrote:

TODAY RATES 1441 AT CBIRAQ

-- November 23, 2006 7:25 AM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here in the T&B...Bill

-- November 23, 2006 11:10 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

97 gunmen killed or arrested in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Nov 23 (KUNA) -- Iraqi police authorities along with the Multi-National Forces (MNF) said on Thursday that 97 killed and arrested in the last 24 hours, while in southern Iraq police discovered a mass grave which goes back to the former regime.

A statement from the MNF said that security forces have killed six terrorists and arrested 77 others in several parts of the Iraqi capital, Mosul, and Kirkuk.

Meanwhile, US military forces said it has killed 12 terrorists and arrested two others in two separate incidents north and west of Baghdad.

On a different front, Iraqi police sources said a mass grave of more than 300 people has been discovered in Al-Naseryia in southern Iraq.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=925451

-- November 23, 2006 11:48 AM ∞

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keo wrote:

Kuwait has the iraqi dinar value at 1348 to the dollar..... Wow.......its almost time to celebrate...

-- November 23, 2006 12:32 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

THE VALUE ADJUSTMENT CURVE HAVE INCREASED IN PACE.

A short term analysis shows that the speed of Dinar value have increased.

13-nov the Dollar/ Dinar value was 1 to 1465.
23-nov the Dollar/ Dinar value was 1 to 1441.

The current pace they are increasing the Dinar value is now 24 points per 10 days.

That's 2.4 per day times 365 = 876 points per year.

With current pace the Dinar will reach a value of ONE cent in just a touch more than ONE AND A HALF YEARS.

It's still too early to say if they are accelerating the exchange value in order to get a handle on the inflation faster, or if they are actually doing the revalue now, as a continuous small raise of the value of the currency.

They my reach a point in the inflation curve where they are happy, and stop raising the value.

Knowing that they anyway have to raise the value of the Dinar, with the up and coming oil production, they might as well just continue doing what they are doing, increasing or slowing down the increase as need arises.

The problem with an RV is the sudden chock and adjustment their currency must adjust to, but a long small creeping revalue will have the advantage of "red flagging" any problem that appears, early.

It's far far too early to say, but this might be it.

-- November 23, 2006 5:48 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Keo,

Yes, if they are increasing the Dinar value on a continuous program as they are doing right now, the Dinar currency will be hard to get. Everyone and his brother wants to hold. This may very well describe the higher local value, like the value you are saying the Dinar have in Kuwait right at this moment.

However, you are not stating if this is the buy or sell value of the Dinar, in the bank or finance institution you are referring to, as the source of the 1348 number you posted.

Banks and currency dealers always have a selling price and a buying price, that in difference will make their profit, this number is close to, but is not the actual exchange rate.

-- November 23, 2006 6:49 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Voices of Iraq: Iraq-Currency
: nadioshka في يوم الخميس, 23 نوفمبر, 2006 - 01:05 PM BT
Iraq-Currency
Dollar demand hit new low in 2006
By Dergham Mohammed Ali
Baghdad, Nov 23, (VOI) – Buying demand for U.S. dollars hit a new low for 2006 on Thursday and the dollar rate was down three dinars amid expectations of lower demand for the U.S. currency as the Iraqi central bank moves towards raising the dinar rate.
The Cenbank said in its daily statement the dollar demand reached $5.330 million compared to $11.450 million on Wednesday.
The central bank covered all bids received from local banks which were $1.290 million in cash and $4.40 million in foreign transfers.
The exchange rate was at 1,441 dinars per dollar, three dinars down from the previous session.
Only six banks participated in Thursday’s session, the lowest number in 2006, and none of them offered to sell dollars.
The Iraqi central bank runs a daily auction on Sunday through Thursday.
Ali al-Yassery, owner of an exchange office, expected demand to stay low for some time as the central bank keeps pushing the dollar rate lower.
“Dollar demand will stay low in anticipation of the rate the central bank is looking for which is not clear yet,” Yassery told the independent news agency Voices of Iraq (VOI).

-- November 23, 2006 7:52 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

THE DINAR MIGHT BE A NAILBITER,

The Dinar is on the way, but bear in mind, that the whole Dinar experience , Iraq and it's financial and bank infrastructure is, even though they are working on it, with good results, still in it's very infancy of being developed into a stable and fully functioning institution.

The start is probably from as far in the bottom as it ever could start. After Saddam, the country was left with a debt bigger than 900% of it's GNP. Few if ever any country have been in a situation where the national debt have been that big.

As in writing moment, Iraq is not out of the hole by a long shot. They are working on the debt, on a debt forgiveness program, but all will not be gone.

Probably by very hard political pressure, Iraq is working on such a liberal debt forgiveness program, that there is no precedence.

Iraq's financial and economical policies is very hard, almost dictatorial shaped by the three most important international organizations. IMF, WB and UN.

UN, a corrupt, incompetent organization, WB, and IMF financial institutions. Seemingly, do good organizations, but when the ink have dried, they are what they are, BANKS, and FINANCE INSTITUTIONS.

Every time a currency is not a free trading , free flowing entity, the more control of the financial and monetary flow, the more of an elephant you are tackling.

As a perspective on this point, in the US economics are very much determined by market, government and state control is there but in much less grade than in Europe, where the forces are always under some attempt to be controlled.

US is doing good, even bad times are pretty good over here, but Europe, is a place where they ALMOST are getting the fruit of capitalism, they never reeeeally seem to get there, as the economic system is so controlled.

In perspective to this, Iraq, have to come from a completely controlled economic system, and it still is very very controlled, to a free flowing system. They still have leaps and bounds to go.

With still , now growing, but comparably a very small reserve, the value of the Dinar must be set by auctions, selling off Dollars. This gives with the comparable small reserve, a very very limited hedge.

The Iraqis are doing their economy in a shock treatment, aggressively moving up the interest to 16% (according to latest info), trying to lure a population that never have had a banking culture, rather prefer to get cash in the pocket, to save up in the bank.

Always when changes are taking place, side effects will start to show.

The whole Iraqi Dinar experience have been sitting for long time, giving the Iraqis a very good time to build up, and prepare for changes, time badly needed in order to at least establish rudimentary banking routines.

Now, it's moving, and now is the nail biter, things happens.

The rudimentary system of auctioning off Dollars, for repurchase of Dinars, might take the first blow, Iraqis are getting their oil revenues in Dollar vouchers. But one of the new phenomenas is that, as the Dinar is getting up in value, the Dinar is more valuable to hold onto than getting Dollars. Thus low interest in Dollars. The system works perfectly in a fixed system, it's actually designed for it.

Now, with the intention of raising the value of the Dinar, suddenly, the CBI have a problem getting interested buyers to the Dollars they are presenting.

They might keep the auction system, and deal with the effects with other measures, of they might need an overhaul of the system.

Either way, it's like building a solid house, that is safe and structurally sound. Once they decided to jack up the house and move it on a house moving trailer, all kinds of problems pops up, suddenly, there is a crack, that needs support, other supporting walls, are now inadequate and needs additional supporting, no one thought of taking out the windows, and after a couple of windows popped out, they will stop the operation, take out all the windows, and board it up. An electrical wire caught a wheel, and ripped through half the building. Anything might happen.

This is pretty much the scenario right now with the regards to the Iraqi Dinar, a lot o foreseeable, and by all means, a good chunk of unforeseeable effects will influence the whole movement of the house.

There might be good and bad news coming out of the whole operation, but as long as the intention is to move the house, it will be moved, despite a couple of popped out windows.

Just remember, this is not a new car, that is moved from one place to another, this is a sick patient that is nursed back to health.

-- November 23, 2006 10:33 PM ∞

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keo wrote:

here's the kuwait site iraqi dinar 1348.......http://www.nbk.com/NBK/TopBar/Rates/rates.htm

-- November 24, 2006 10:01 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Found this on another Dinar site and felt it an excellent post..
Kudos to the poster and to George Washington.. for the excellent read. :)

Sara.

===

The George Washington 1789 Thanksgiving proclamation.

Here's what George Washington proclaimed in 1789:

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor -- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me "to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness."

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be -- That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks -- for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation -- for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the tranquility [sic], union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed -- for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted -- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions -- to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually -- to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed -- to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn [sic] kindness onto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord -- To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease [sic] of science among them and us -- and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand at the City of New York
the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789.

George Washington

===end of quote===

poster's comments:

You want me to count the number of references to God? How about just the first line? "Whereas, it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and to humbly implore His protection and favor." Let's see. One, two, three, four references in just that first clause. What a fanatic, George Washington! Just wanted you to hear that. That's the first Thanksgiving proclamation in 1789. The real story of Thanksgiving -- and by the way, the real story is continuing, what I just read to you. The thanks was given to God, not the Indians.

-- November 24, 2006 10:55 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts......

Can't help getting a smile when I read about the oil sands in Alberta. The US oil patch Engineers are still perfecting their process for the oil shale in the US and eventually the cost will also be feasible. Sure makes me happy that we have an "ace in the hole" right here in North America. These resources give us a huge bargaining chip when dealing with the OPEC ragheads and other bad guys that would love to take the Western world down.
=========================================================================================================

The Oil Reserve 8 Times Bigger
than Saudi Arabia's

All of a sudden, the oil sands in Alberta, Canada have become a veritable “black gold” mine. And Big Oil’s heavy hitters are wishing they acted sooner…

Just three years ago, when the average price of crude was $29.63 a barrel, producers didn’t find the profits to be worth the costs of processing the oil sands.

But improvements in mining technology have dramatically reduced the cost of extraction, rocketing bottom lines skyward. According to the Oil Sands Discovery Centre in Alberta, it now costs an average of just $13.21 to process each of the 2.5 trillion barrels of oil embedded in the sands – a reserve 8 times bigger than Saudi Arabia’s… containing more oil than all OPEC nations combined.

Now, Big Oil companies that didn’t get in early can only sit by and watch as “savvy oil” laughs all the way to the bank. With crude selling for $60-plus, revenues at Alberta’s premier oil sands producers are rocketing skyward.

-- November 24, 2006 10:59 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Terrorists Use YouTube and MySpace to Train and Recruit
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 22, 2006 - 10:49.

First Coast News in Jacksonville, Florida, did a fabulous piece Tuesday on how terrorists are using websites like YouTube and MySpace to recruit, train, and send messages to their cadre. Some of the transcript was posted at FirstCoastNews.com, and the absolutely must-see video is here:

It's a video showing a room full of children sharing their dreams. They are not excited about being doctors, lawyers or teachers. Instead, the children shout, "We are the nation of Hezbollah. I shall sacrifice my life for Allah."

A group of children in training to be a mujahideen, or holy warrior.

Online there are videos of those warriors. One suicide bomber announces he is readying himself to blow up a group of American soldiers.

The video goes on for eight minutes and even shows the explosion. In the background are cheers from those taking the pictures.

The video is just some of the many the First Coast News I-team found on the internet from sites like Youtube and Myspace.

"I think right now we are a ticking time bomb," says Tom Hayden, a retired Lt. Col Marine, who is also a counter terrorism expert.

Hayden says some of the videos, while disturbing, are online for a reason.

"Something like myspace, probably the most well known, popular website right now, it's even being used to transmit messages," says Hayden.

He says there are messages left on the internet for those recruited to carry out another 9/11 type attack. Hayden says those Jihad soldiers are getting messages in chat rooms and on message boards.

"There is a specific time that a message is coming. Then it's on there and then it is taken off," says Hayden.

He says hidden messages are also being sent in pictures and videos and the solider is already equipped with the code to unlock the secret. "It's being used quite frequently."

In fact, some of the videos we found and recorded were gone in a matter of days, removed by the user.

There was no trace of what was there or who the page belonged to. The experts will tell you that's a problem, because there is a new breed of terrorist out there.

"You won't see anymore like we have Mohammad Atta and that group that came," says Hayden.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation agrees, saying the Internet has created a series of new problems.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9224

-- November 24, 2006 11:05 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Oakie, thanks. Right on. You really have to see the boom up here to believe it. Our main political arguments up here in Alberta are what to do with all our oil revenue. The great thing is, the money is staying right here in North America. We are turning into the blue-eyed sheiks, up here, in Oilberta. There's no sign of Al Queda up here yet, just Al Johnson, and Al Smith. Probably too freaken cold for desert rats up here, anyway.

-- November 24, 2006 12:28 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

That was me.

-- November 24, 2006 12:31 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Something to keep in mind in the future: In the past, occassionally things get a bit testy, on this site. You can say what you want on this forum, within reason. I am confident this investment will pay off some day, big time. And then, there will be a fantastic pig roast in Florida, and I expect everyone to attend, and to have a great time. A time you will never forget can be had by all. This kind of thing only comes once in a lifetime, if you are very lucky. I don't want anyone to miss out because they are embarrassed to go, because of something they have said in the past.

-- November 24, 2006 3:54 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

I'm going just to meet Sara!!!! But I'll probably just have to wait in line.

-- November 24, 2006 7:38 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts - is there any Alberta Beef gonna be at the pig roast? Second only to Texas beef, I hear..

Chuckle.. thanks, Willie. :)
Very kind comment.
I'd enjoy meeting you and the others.. but..
Are you sure the Islamics who defended jihad as the right way for all Islamics (with implications toward me when I opposed their theological position) won't turn up?
I'd prefer they not come at all.. if they really do intend jihadism..
as I really would like to enjoy the newfound bounty of the Dinar RV in this life before I head into the next..
Kevin deleted all those really nasty posts, so you won't see them by backtracking..

Sara.

-- November 24, 2006 10:37 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Sara, God has not given me the spirit of fear, but has COMMANDED me to be strong and of a good courage, not to be afraid nor dismayed, for the Lord God is with me where ever I go. Therefore the only limitations I have are the ones I accept. As in Revelations, Jesus is continually saying He is coming back for overcomers. Something that I noticed you have been doing quite well at lately. Your brother in Christ...Willie

-- November 25, 2006 12:46 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Keo,

Tried AOL, Mozilla and Google, but had no luck, the best I could get was the framed headlines, of the site.

It looked to me though to be a Bank or other Financial institution. The number you quoted was most probably a Buy price, that is if you walk in to the bank, that's how many Dinars you're getting for a buck, and the sell price, that is mostly the actual spot price, that is the amount of Dinars you have to have if you are selling to them.

Most banks or finance institution have that price difference. I don't know, if you know, but you can buy Dinars in a number of banks in the US now, and your buying price at that bank corresponds pretty much the price you're quoting.

All banks, finance institutions, or currency dealers have two figures, selling and buying price.

No, you are fully correct in quoting that the bank have that quote for their Dinars, but that is only when YOU BUY.

-- November 25, 2006 4:43 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

L.A.Times: Repeats Terrorist's Propaganda as News... Again!
Posted by Warner Todd Huston on November 25, 2006 - 08:09.

Patterico's Pontifications blog has done some stellar detective work on a particular L.A. Times story wherein the Times claims that U.S. forces attacked a town with an aerial strike that killed 30 Iraqis, including women and children.

The Times also reported that widespread destruction resulted from this reported "bombardment":

"A Times correspondent in Ramadi said at least 15 homes were pulverized by aerial bombardment and families could be seen digging through the ruins with shovels and bare hands."

Gruesome, eh?
Problem is, the big story that the Times reported upon doesn't seem to have ever happened.

As Patterico so ably demonstrates there was no "U.S. airstrike", no buildings were destroyed (perhaps damage to one, though), and, worse, no women OR children were killed.

It does seem 30 were killed and there does seem to have been a battle between insurgents and coalition forces, but those killed were all men (read insurgents) and they were all killed by ground forces. No air support was utilized in this fight at all. Not even a helium filled birthday balloon hovered over this battle ground.

Patterico has quite a long post filled with his investigation to disprove that Times' story. It is so comprehensive, I will not try to distill it here. Suffice to say, it is fantastic reading and is a must for those who want the truth about our efforts in Iraq. (Patterico's post is titled, Is the L.A. Times Repeating Enemy Propaganda?)

Go read this revealing story. It'll make your blood boil.

I will say one thing further, though. The biggest problem with the western MSM's reporting in Iraq is that they have NO ONE in the zone actually witnessing, filming, photographing, or reporting live from these events they are so willing to splash across the pages of our papers.

The western MSM hires what are called "stringers" to do their in person, ground work. These people are invariably members of the propaganda arm of Hammas, Al Qaeda or any of many recognized terror groups there. These "stringers" take their doctored photos and their fake stories straight to Western MSM sources where they are printed up as absolute fact without a single effort by those western sources to check the facts, look for corroborating reports, or even ask the U.S. military for comment. (Extensively reported here on NewsBusters as Reutergate and Fauxtography, where "news" photos and stories have been faked)

The MSM is undeniably unreliable with their reports on Iraq.

But, is it out of the question to suspect they KNOW they are printing falsehoods against our soldiers and endangering their lives? Sadly, it is awfully hard to escape the conclusion that they are, indeed, fully aware that their "reports" are pure lies because stories of these so-called disasters in Iraq neatly fits in with their desire to lose this war.

The MSM have taken an active hand in the efforts to destroy our war effort. It's fine to have an ideological bone to pick, but when stories begin to harm our soldier's moral and reputations, we have left the arena of discussion of policy and edged dangerously close to treason.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9250

-- November 25, 2006 3:04 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

You should check out a very good program running on CNN, it's Glenn Beck doing a very in depth program about Islamic propaganda, indoctrination and brainwashing.

This goes straight in line with your earlier posting.

The parallels to fascism and Nazism, their methods, programs and arguments are so identical, we might wonder if Islam in that form, is a true fascist movement, or a religion.

-- November 25, 2006 3:06 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

I respect George Washington who crossed the Delaware in the midst of fog to avoid the battle against the enemy - thereby proving that sometimes "Discretion is the better part of valor" and "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread".

Sometimes it isn't worth risking your life to attend a pig roast, no matter how nice the company would be. :)

Sara.

-- November 25, 2006 3:11 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sara, Good to hear from you. Hope your day is going well. I want to thank you for the opportunity to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord. I will really search the scriptures further concerning fear. I have never seen your statement concerning angels and treading, so maybe I have overlooked it. Thank you much....Willie

-- November 25, 2006 6:18 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

When I quote the Bible I tend to use Chapter and verse.. :)

That saying is classical literature and came from an essay done by a young 23 year old man..
who also happened to be the Roman Catholic Pope.
No, I am not Catholic nor was I quoting him on par with the Bible, but the saying is sage and it fit well with what I was saying.
Quote:

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread

Foolish people are often reckless, attempting feats that the wise avoid. This saying is from “An Essay on Criticism,” by Alexander Pope .

http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/foolsrushinw.html

The saying, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" has been made into popular songs.. by Glenn Miller, Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra, to name a few. I liken it to the Scripture verses 2 Peter 2:11 and Jude 1:9, which speak of times where even angels didn't go full out forward, due to circumstances... which ties into:

"Discretion is the better part of valor" - also a sage saying.. not a Scripture verse.
But one that certainly served George Washington - the "the sly old fox," (as the British called him) well in his exploits.
The Delaware reference was where he strategically withdrew and retreated to battle another day. Placing the Delaware River between himself and the enemy provided just enough protection and allowed him time to plan for a three pronged attack on Trenton. There are times to fight, and times not to fight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington's_crossing_of_the_Delaware

One of my favorite verses in this regard is this:

Eph 5:15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

The dictionary says: cir/cum/spect 

–adjective

1. watchful and discreet; cautious; prudent: circumspect behavior.
2. well-considered: Synonyms - careful, vigilant, guarded.
3. Heedful of circumstances and potential consequences; prudent.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/circumspect

Thanks for the well wishes,

Sara.

-- November 25, 2006 7:25 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

I missed it! :(

Could you summarize?

Please?

Sara.

-- November 25, 2006 7:27 PM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

-- November 25, 2006 7:30 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

I am tired.. and got the Popes mixed up..

The reference I pointed you to (above) took you to POPE.. as it Catholic pope.. and Alexander Pope was not a POPE.. but that was his name..

Alexander Pope (21 May 1688 – 30 May 1744) is generally regarded as the greatest English poet of the early eighteenth century, best known for his satirical verse and for his translation of Homer. Pope was a master of the heroic couplet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pope

He was 23 when his essay with the words "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" was published, though.
Don't know how I got that mixed up.. Sorry bout that.. long day.

Sara.

-- November 25, 2006 7:36 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

To clarify - I knew the saying "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" was a classic from famous Literature.. but I didn't fully recall who wrote it. I googled it to get the author's name and went to that link, above:
Quote:
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread

Foolish people are often reckless, attempting feats that the wise avoid. This saying is from “An Essay on Criticism,” by Alexander Pope.

http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/foolsrushinw.html

Here it says the author is Alexander POPE.. with POPE highlighted. That link takes you to a dissertation on the POPE (the Roman Catholic Church's leader).. so I noted him as such, thinking it linked to the man whom they were mentioning in the above quote.

When I thought of it later.. I remembered Alexander Pope and could hardly believe I had referred to him as a Pope when I even knew some of the man's other writings and quotations.
Quote:

Pope's works were once considered part of the mental furniture of the well-educated person. One edition of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations includes no less than 212 quotations from Pope. Some, familiar even to those who may not know their source, are "A little learning is a dang'rous thing" (from the Essay on Criticism); "To err is human, to forgive, divine" (ibid.); "For fools rush in where angels fear to tread" (ibid); and "The proper study of mankind is man" (Essay on Man).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pope

Obviously, he was never a Pope, though that was his last name. Hope that clears it up.

Sara.

-- November 25, 2006 8:11 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, yes, I can bring Alberta beef. We have a saying here, "If it ain't Alberta, it ain't beef". I'm willing to try Texas beef, but I have high standards.

-- November 25, 2006 11:55 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi All:

Recovering from a very big crowd on Thanksgiving. The best parto fo the day was hearing from my grandson who is in boot camp with the US Coast Guard.

Has anyone heard the story about Sadr threatrning to pull out sll of his men from the parliament ( 30 seats) if Bush meeta witht the Saudi Ayhotallah in Jordan next week?

I saw the report on NBC news ( something I rarely watch). I have not seen it since on any other stations. The essence of the report is that if this happens the government will collapse.

Bush responded by saying that nothing was going to stop his plans to meet in Jordan.

It is 2am, an dI have some patients to see tomorrow, but I found some great information about the onging economy predictions and strategies in Iraq. It may be old news to some, but was very interesting and revealing to me. Unfortunately not looking bright for the future. I will post it tomorrow.

Roger:

The difference between the Nazi regime and the Islamic regime, while they both define themselves through facsist structure is the underlying root of Nazism was athesim, and Islamic is religion with unrelenting adoration and obedience to
Allah, as revelaed and interpreted through the teachings of Mohammed.

I don't think there is anyhting that can be compared to this predicament in human history, and thus so perplexing.

In the world situation today, as I see it, it all comes down to a parallel of fight fire with fire. The question is who is going to throw the first flame dart? How devestating will it be? And will we (the Us who is the proclaimed enemy, and the target) going to be standing well enough to throw a flame dart back?

The flame dart, of course being a nuclear attack.

I can't understand why we fail to believe thier threats, that they so vividly act on, time and time again. What will it take for us to get a jump start on them before it is too late?

I believe Sara's vision is a prophetic one that is consistent with all bible prophecy.

Just as the bible warns that in the last days their will be scores and scores of false prophets, it also acknowledges that there will be those who will have horrifying visions of what is to come.

We could leave " religion " out of our discussion, if "religion " wasn't at the core of the entire big picture.

Someone posted awhile back ( I think it was Tim)that talking about the middle east subjects was like going to a yankee game and not saying the word baseball.

-- November 26, 2006 6:19 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

There will be a rerun of the programs, check with CNN website, and you will get the new schedule. The program is a must see.

This guy they have hired on CNN, Glenn Beck, was previously on conservative talk radio on satellite radio.

-- November 26, 2006 9:03 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Absolutely, in a sense it could be said that what they are breeding over thee is pure fascism, they might call it religion, while the old time fascist called it what it was.

If the end result of whatever they call it is:

1. Women are property.
2. Jews are compared with apes and pigs.
3. Christians are Satan.
4. Any one with other viewpoints must be killed.
5. Common knowledge is suppressed, thus the population is unable to produce consumer goods.
6. If it serves the purpose of protecting the above institution, lies are the truth.
7. You are expected to die yourself, thus becoming a martyr, to protect the above.
8. By assigning it a religion, they can demand from others to accept it.

I'm sure the list can be extended.

Islam have never had one reform, like Christianity had.

Martin Luther, Renaissance, Enlightenment period( Newton, Galileo, Kepler,), Social reforms (American, French revolution, with stakes like Freedom, Liberty, Brotherhood etc) , Sexual revolution (in the sixties), Woman rights ( late 1800's early 1900's), Civil rights ( Abraham Lincoln and the issues of the civil war, and the moral settling of the questions, late 50's early 60's).

Islam have HAD some changes, but at each change, they have turn more conservative, and fundamentalist.

Like in any religion, there is a spiritual element in it, but Islam have turned fascist, in every turn they have taken.

What very little they have left of the spiritual aspect, and to the extent they are ruling by the "rules of the book", they have turned into a fascist movement. Anyone that cares, can refer to their religious aspect and protect it under religious rights, but if the end result is pure fascists, then it's fascism.

Just a matter what we call it.

I'm pretty tired of getting a bearded head wrapped guy sitting and waiving his finger, telling the world how beautiful his life is, and how far in the hole I am.

Fascism is fascism, what ever name it's assigned.

-- November 26, 2006 9:49 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

A trivia regarding Fascism.

A Fascist is actually a very old symbol, like the Swastika, and have nothing to do with the political movement of Fascism.

The symbol is an axe, wrapped in a bundle of sticks. The symbolism is that each stick is weak, but bundled, together they are strong.

The symbol is found in Europe and here, and means just that. Strength with number.

If in doubt, just have a look at the two big symbols in the United States Congress, one Fascista is hanging , covered in gold, on each side of the Speaker of the House. Every time, there is a scene from the Congress, you should be able to see them, if you know what to look for.

Actually they are so big, that they are plainly visible almost in every scene from the Congress. Almost impossible to miss.

-- November 26, 2006 10:03 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Still, it's a Dinar site, religion in this aspect is lesser than economical aspects. We've been through this discussion what this site is.

I'm really comfortable discussing religion, like the subject and for sure have a lot of aspects that I want to communicate about it.

The Dinars is close to Islam, no doubt, sure that can be extended to Christianity, and sure that could be extended further to our beliefs, and we could also extend it further to why its better to believe it my way or your way or someone else's way.

This could be extended, to the point where we show each other Christian quotes , to really make sure they understand our ways, (and also enlighten them in the right way of believing),......

This is Internet, no one can stop anyone from coming, leaving, saying, not saying, no one can enforce, police or punish anyone for breaking rules.

Very few have ever actually talked or met with each other, we are real to each other on a text screen, and our ability to in our own head see us as a society, will make that society.

I checked the site meter, since 6.30 pm last Wednesday over 1500 people have been checking out this site.

Some contribute to this site , some don't, most don't, they just look.

It's fine either way, sometimes I'm looking into boat, or spacecraft sites, and do not participate, just looking.

However, when I'm searching for those sites, I look under the heading of boats, or spacecraft, and if I look under the heading of Iraqi Dinars, that's what I expect to find.

Not a bearded head wrapped guy telling me to convert to something.

-- November 26, 2006 10:37 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

I'm interested to see whether the exchange rate increase, is staying on course, or is increasing or decreasing. When is next planned CBI auction normally scheduled for? Should be today sometime, right?

-- November 26, 2006 11:34 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Roger,

Apparently there was no CBI auction today. Rumor is something to do with a lockdown. Last numbers released were from Thursday. Maybe that means a jump tomorrow if they are to stay on this trend.

-- November 26, 2006 2:57 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

Regarding your trivia about fascism being, quote: "The symbol is an axe, wrapped in a bundle of sticks. The symbolism is that each stick is weak, but bundled, together they are strong." Hence the idea of fascism is that of strength in numbers.. and that such strength in numbers is what will prevail.

As I think of little Israel in the Middle East - in the sea of such a vast and hostile populace - with "strength in numbers" all around them and vastly outnumbering them, I am reminded of the story of David and Goliath which speaks to that - since the bigger or stronger (physically or in numbers) is not always the one to win and:

Pro 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

The idea being that even if agreements between the strong (terrorist.. and media) parties are made, God can overthrow even that. It is easier to think in these terms concerning Justice being done in the earth when we see daily such wicked people blowing up innocent men, women and children - all in the the name of their god and for their greedy and lustful political aims (James 4:1). They will NOT go unpunished in the earth no matter how strong in numbers or what agreements they make with one another to support and uphold each other, simply because there is a God who judges in the earth (and the earth is HIS as well as the people in it). I only wish the Lord worked on a shorter time schedule when executing His judgements, as I am impatient to see the outcome of it today or yesterday, not tomorrow.

As for the Dinar.. the auctions are the most interesting thing and I thank you, Chris, for the information you are providing on it. They cannot keep the value of the Dinar artificially low forever.. like the saying "nature hates a vaccume" - the emptiness of the Dinar's negative value is a constant pull on the world economy, exerting a force which seeks a proper equalibrium. It takes much effort to keep it that artificially low. We speak of it "floating" up to its real value if put on the market.. but we are really talking it coming to the point of true equalibrium and being properly valued. At this time it is not at its natural equalibrium, and that causes inequities.. just as "nature abhors a vaccume".

Sara.

-- November 26, 2006 3:55 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

You could say David had the superior technology (his sling),
and Goliath the superior strength (in fascism - of numbers)..
couldn't you?

Sara.

-- November 26, 2006 3:59 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

Well, of course, for every saying or symbol there is one that might argue the opposite. I didn't thought of the Middle East fact that Israel is low in number, compared with the rest of the population in that region of the world.

There might be argument for a person to be strong, not following the crowd, stay on his own feet, and all that, as well as other arguments saying, you have to bow for the majority get in line, get with the program, and join the world.

Both have their validity, the point I merely wanted to communicate was that the Swastika and Fascista is symbols that was stolen by bad guys.

Of the two, the Swastika is now so completely entrenched in association with Nazism, that I have a hard time seeing it being resurrected to it's former meaning.

The Fascista symbol is fairly unknown, and are still used in different countries shields, without any association with the Fascist movement. It's mostly used in institutions where the "strength by number" is needed, like voting, in a government, a strong police force, against individual criminals, strong army and so on.

Sure Sara, I can see the deeper meaning of Fascism and David and Goliath.

Especially in that region, where the religion of Islam have been so extremely perverted that it has in fact become fascism, and any spiritual aspect except their own idea of it, is a death sentence.

Funny, it's ok to be Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Buddhist or whatever you like in Israel. Try that in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

The value of our invested Dinars, will in it's vast majority be dependent on their oil, as other currencies in the region is almost directly oil money. Prospected, developed, installed and produced with western technology.

Their Islamic version they are running at the moment, is forbidding common knowledge, thus their own industrial base is very hampered.

I'm sure there is a lot of entrepreneurial spirit over there, but any heavy industry, that will really count when it comes to their own survival, is with a few exceptions not in the picture.

That whole region is importing, with the oil money as their basis, all their consumer goods.

Selling stuff, that is imported is in itself an industry ( and it's thriving as far as I understand) but their own production must pass by the watermark, rugs and pots wont cut it in the long run.

As long as they keep their clan system, their tribes society and their idea that Islam, in it's now fascist mode, is the way, they will get nothing but the short stick.

Higher schooling is, interesting enough, something that west is providing to wealthy families, you see the kids over here, in the finer Universities.

However, if like in Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia, an honest days work is looked down upon, and that is something that is bought, with imported or lower class people, the whole basis for a thriving middle class is not even there yet.

I do however believe that there are difference in the region, Iraq have had a thriving middle class once, before Saddam, and if they just can have the "night of the long knifes" done and over with, that part of the region I believe actually have some great potential to it.

Democracy is threatening Fascism in that part of the world, and under some "spiritual leaders" , that is, Fascist Honchos, the population is in great spiritual turmoil.

Eventually the Fascists will loose ground, already have, and they are loud about loosing ground, kicking and screaming, becoming very active in their psychotic fear, that the population will eventually wake up and see who they are, and do to them, the same as they have done to the population.

THAT break point have not come yet, but every day is closer.

It might come slowly as an obscure movement, but once it starts, there will be even more turmoil over there. This time though, it will be a very internal battle.

10, perhaps 20 but no more than 30 years from now, there will be an internal social revolution, that will put the individual freedom first. Right now, the US, the "enemy" the Satan, have planted the seed, and at this moment, they are very fearful of watering it, but as the song about John Barleycorn that must die, he will sprout.

In that sense, it would be a good thing for us not to be there, let them have Democracy, leave them alone, now who are they going to blame.

For the short term, we must be there, count on things being in a battle, battle for anything and everything that moves, mostly ideas and concepts. The exploding mortar is just an effect of no mutual understanding. The exploding mortar is the way of saying, it's our way or the highway. With so many groups claiming the right way, and they all have firearms, and mortars, there will be some explosive communication going on for a while.

It's an information battle, something that we don't have an upper hand on right now, in the region. Fascists have a lot of Goebbles sitting and spewing puke daily over there.

Sara, I think our common interest of the life in the region, started with the Dinar, but as time went by , our understanding of what they are doing over there have increased, to the point when (I think) we are somewhat involved in their life, their ways, and their future.

So, if they are promoting Fascism, and we are promoting Democracy, they see it the Fascist way, we see it the Democratic way, our and their problem is our inability to communicate to them that they are practicing Fascism, and their inability to make us understand it is religion.

I stick with the Fascist concept, but for the Middle East guy, that's not real, at least not yet.

If they want to keep the Fascist idea for a while, well, as long as they start pumping oil, and make the Dinar go up in value, I'm happy. They have to solve their own problems, and I'm not that sure I want to spend my life being the Messiah for them.

-- November 26, 2006 5:20 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

Lock down well I can believe that, Baghdad is under an extended curfew right now, well lets see what next auction will bring.

Sara,

Just a clarification, the Fascista is a symbol that means "strength by number" , the Fascist movement may very well have taken up that slogan too. They definitely used the word Fascism, as their political name. However the Fascista and the Fascist movement is two different thing, where the movement associated themselves with the Fascista.

There is nothing Fascism about the Fascista other than the Fascist movements earlier historical adaptation of the symbol. Getting a bit too complicated here..... Ahh , Sara, you got it.

-- November 26, 2006 5:35 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks Roger..
one thing Fascists do well is propaganda..
which brings to mind an article today..

Reutersgate 2? Baghdad Burnings Remain Unconfirmed
Posted by Al Brown on November 26, 2006 - 11:18.

Reports of burning mosques, like this one from Reuters http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAC455359.htm remain unconfirmed, and may have been fabricated by Sunni militants.

Also, sensationalized accounts of Sunnis being dragged from prayer and burned alive by rampaging Shiites are unconfirmed, and all appear to come from the same source, police Captain Jamil Hussein, whose entire career appears to be issuing statements about Shia violence against Sunnis. Curt at Flopping Aces has researched Hussein and found a remarkable number of atrocity stories for which he is the source.

Curt also reports that he has received an email from CENTCOM that is very skeptical of the media accounts:

We are checking with the Iraqi Government to verify that Capt. Jamil Hussein is a legitimate Iraqi Government spokesperson. We haven’t heard back yet. Unfortunately, people posing as government officials often do call the media to make statements.
From the Multi-National Force's Iraqi Freedom website:

BAGHDAD — Contrary to recent media reporting that four mosques were burned in Hurriya, an Iraqi Army patrol investigating the area found only one mosque had been burned in the neighborhood...
...An alleged attack on a fourth mosque remains unconfirmed. The patrol was also unable to confirm media reports that six Sunni civilians were allegedly dragged out of Friday prayers and burned to death. Neither Baghdad police nor Coalition forces have reports of any such incident.

This is all uncomfortably reminiscent of the Reutersgate/fauxtography scandal during the Israeli/Hezbollah war, and once again brings into question just how much Western news agencies have compromised their integrity by depending on unvetted local stringers and sources.

If these incidents were embellished, as they now seem to be, they show a frightening level of sophistication about Western media. The stories all broke toward the end of the weekly news cycle so that even if they are eventually corrected, they will have at least the weekend to sink into the American psyche.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9260

-- November 26, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

THE DINAR WILL GO TO 1000 DINARS / 1 DOLLAR.

Ali Mahmoud Al-Fakiki, an economic expert on Iraq, also a big critics of the "zero loop" proposal, have in an article found in Dar Al-Hayat mentioned that the Dinar are set to be adjusted to 1000 Dinars, to 1 Dollar.

Don't know where he have got his information about the 1000 to 1 data, but he have in the past been a truthful source.

This will be a confirmation that the RV is not to be found within the just now ongoing adjustment of the Dinar. The Dinars we will hold will be somewhat more valuable. One million will cost a grand, instead of the 6 or 700 Dollars we have been paying so far (plus dealers fees, I say about 800 bucks would probably be a good average that we have payed for a million).

This will be another ballgame then.

If they are going in a rate of 2.5 points / day, right now they are at 1441, shave off 1000 points. leave us with 441 points to take off, that will be done in about 176 days, that's about 6 months give or take a couple of fractions.

Ok, by the end of May, they should be done (assuming they are going in about the rate they are doing right now) and then they will quit.

Funny, al-Fakiki had some criticism of IMF, and was even referring to a quote from Kissinger saying IMF have one pill only for every sickness.

You should check out this article, the author goes into a long list of winners and losers, (as always when currency changes value), bit boring on all those points, but its worth checking out.

http://english.daralhayat.com/business/11-2006/Article-20061126-243a62de-c0a8-10ed-0la4-77df3c75f43d/story.html

Well, we know what they're doing now.

-- November 26, 2006 9:00 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

darn, gave a link, when trying it from the site it wouldnt work, let me work on it

-- November 26, 2006 9:03 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Ok this will work,
1. go to the Google bar.
2. punch in http:/english.daralhayat.com
3. when the site comes up, click on "business"
4. Go to article by Ali Mahmoud al-Fakiki

-- November 26, 2006 9:08 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

You asked about the CNN program, got the schedule. This coming Friday, at 7 and 9 pm. Must see. CNN is re-running it because it had enormously huge number of people watching it. The program showed, small 3 year old arab girls, that can hardly speak, telling why Jews are pigs and apes, parents giggling in the background.

This guy Glenn Beck, he's a kicker.

-- November 26, 2006 9:28 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Why can't we tell the world that we want to be their friend and their trade partner and stop all foreign aid? Why can't we tell them that we will do them no harm but if they do us harm that the retalliation will be severe.

An ally should be a partner that we need and they need us. Why do we need Thailand as an ally? Why do we need Isrial as an ally? Why do we need South Korea as an ally? We need them as trading partners but not as allies.

We are not the world's policeman and to continue with this farce is idiocy. I see no benefit from our being in Iraq. If we had gone in and taken over their oil field thus securing a reliable source of oil for the future, then I would have supported it, but to use up the scarce resources of the USA to wage a battle in Iraq only as a good-will gesture is insane. Once the troops were commited, it was unpatriotic to find fault with the war but surely we can find a better way to use our resources than to rebuild a Country that we could not give a s--- less about.

My only concern with Iraq is to make the Dinar profitable and I will bet 90% of you feel the same way if you would admit it.

Our national debt is nearing 9 trillian which is $35,000 for every man, woman, and child in this Country and China and Russia are saving their resourses while we are expending ours. At some strategic point, China is going to demand payment on the Trillians of dollars in treasury notes which they hold. What do we do then?

Just because something is good and benelovent doesn't mean that it is our obligation to participate in it. It's like a family with a daughter that needs braces on her teeth-if it means that the family has to forego food and clothing and shelter, then even thought the daughter should have braces, they must deny her the braces.

Again, who cares about Iraq except for our investment?

-- November 26, 2006 11:08 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Neil,

Your touching on a nerve here, and yes, a pullout is what eventually will come, when that comes, the enemies will say that we were defeated, and we will say that we won.

Did we need it, want it, or crave for being there, no, but with the good reasons at the time, we have got it now.

If we need S.Korea or Taiwan or Thailand.

I had to think about this for a moment, and I would say, well as much as you need an Uncle, Aunt, Sister or Brother.

You can live a happy life not having one.

In the end analysis, yeah, I want an Uncle, and Aunt, Cousin and Niece.

If a fault line opened up and the rest of the world would fall into a big ocean, and only the US would remain, I would grief, it would be too big of a loss.

Sometimes though, I have a feeling that the US is acting a bit like a very dominant, family member, getting involved in when the cousin will buy a new house, giving advice and telling the cousin what she wants.

The Uncle is in a marriage age, and our dominant ways, we just give advice, hints and pointers , find a good mate, and give our approval to him.

Our dominant way of doing things, dictates that we should look over our cousins finances, and tell them what to do.

Without hesitation, we give a call to our shy niece, and lay out the whole plan for her where and what schools she is expected to be in, once she reluctantly agree to our pressure, we will tell her what career she will choose.

The big party happens at our house, and dare not to say you have other plans.

We crashed the doors in Iraq and now we are collecting the bits.

It's not as fun, as when everybody was gung ho and was going after terrorists.

Na, I say, if we took the Devil in the boat, we better row him ashore. complete what we're out after, but be darn sure what we want in this universe once this thing is in our past.

China, have, after they went capitalistic, done only what is good for China. Russia the same way, so don't count on those as allies when the time is going toe to toe with N Korea or Iran.

China is amassing Dollars, yes, they're cheating worse than worse, their currencies actual value is far much higher than they artificially are holding it to.

This makes their export being very very strong, and our jobs are dwindling, getting so specialised that our drug induced youth, that have spent all their free time shooting blobs from a screen, can not compete, and we even have to import engineers from India, Asia and Europe to keep specialised industry going.

Next time at a hospital, ever wondered why the Doc's name is Wong, Foo, Slobadowsky or Von Hedenstam.

China is starting to hurt though, and the sweet revenge is looming. With it's low valued currency, their oil consumption is rising, and they have to use their Yankee Dollar to buy their oil, Their own currency can't get a bucket of oil, unless you want to spend copious amounts of it.

So China is not going to come for payment, it's an impossibility anyway, they already have the Dollars in their hands, and since the Gold standard is done and over with, the Fed will issue a Dollar for a Dollar, so a paper swap is not in their interest. Don't worry, we will not be hurt over it in the long run, those Dollars will be forced out on the market, in the same pace as they get more and more oil thirsty.

The 70's and 80's was jobs against jobs, China versus the US, and in that, we lost out, but we have adopted long since, and now we're the most dynamic, financial explosive economy in the world.

I think the whole world right now are in an identity crisis, the cultural and political world have borders, but the economical and financial world have no borders.

We want to keep our ways, but have to open up to the world, the more finances, are flowing for the benefit of all, through the system.

The old world when every nation in the world had high tolls, high tariffs, tariff wars was going on, and it was almost impossible to trade internationally is gone.

The Iraqis, in fact the whole Middle East is experiencing this identity crisis right now. They want to keep their ways, but are most eager to do business, and open up for the world, you cant have both, you will be influenced.

All the countries that is closing up, is on a loosing streak, Russia, getting more and more closed, and are slipping into isolationism. China , business are doing fine, but once a done deal, you have a whole rigid, society blocking any and all effort to expand, censured Internet, very few rights, and hard punishments for stepping out of line. Iran, closed up and strict rules. Perhaps the biggest joke of them all, N.Korea. Completely closed, air that is blowing in to that country is filtered from imperialistic influences.

All of those countries that are on a closed circuit, is on a loosing end, The whole Middle East as a generality is completely rigid for changes in their life. Countries like that is not going anywhere, not really. Changes are coming down there, but it will hurt, "their way of life".

Here in the US, we can feel the same ridge, for changes, the more international we're going, this society WILL change.

The Rockwell type America dont exist no more.

If you want to look for the old south, you have to look very very hard, between McDonald and Herz Rent a Car.

So in conclusion, if we want to stay on top of our economy, our life and our future, we have to accept that the communication lines we're looking at will have outside influences.

When it comes to the world economy, well, that could perhaps be the bully described in the beginning, because we have the biggest financial muscles of them all, and you know the old saying.

Money talks....BS walks.

When you have resources, it's easy to snap the fingers, and tell them what you want.

-- November 27, 2006 12:27 AM ∞

---

Willie wrote:

Sara, You are so gifted intellectually. It is really refreshing to know people who challenge you to think. God Bless you. Another good thing is you bring out self imposed limitations of inferiority and intimidation within people. I just hope they grow by knowing you and decide to rid themselves of fear and become the unlimited being that God has made. After rereading many of your posts I perceive your feeling, thinking, and actions which results into courageousness. And most all in this forum would agree that this is the ultimate truth. Grace to you...Willie

-- November 27, 2006 1:12 AM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Neil: What you just described is exactly how they felt in the early 1900's. That is nearly an exact description of Isolationism and it failed. That philosophy goes on the premise that we don't need anyone and that events in the world do not affect us. History proven that belief dead wrong. Israel is our only true ally in this region. It's not about religion but about a strategic partner who helps us keep an eye on threats here. Thailand and South Korea allow us a place to go for great parties and they serve the side purpose of helping us keep Kim Il in check, keep an eye on the nut cases of Asia, and are some of the last fronts against communism. Any country in the world, regardless of close they seem to you, where extremists are allowed to rule create a threat to US life and prosperity. The question is where to draw the lines on what is enough of a threat to justify doing what we did in Iraq. I have posted my feelings before on why I personally feel Saddam was enough of a threat previously. Again, you want to discuss how the war was mismanaged I may give you some stuff to fuel that fire. Make a post that says we should not have come here and we will debate that for a VERY long time and I suspect neither of us will convince the other to change views. Point being, we're here. Now it's time to go home, after we finish this.

-- November 27, 2006 2:02 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

To Sara and All;

Going back to the subject of the Pope:

Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all Jews had to convert or leave Italy. There was a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He would have a religious debate with the leader of the Jewish commuinity. If the Jews won, they could stay, if the Pope won, they would have to leave.

The Jewish people met and they picked an aged but wise Rabbi Moishe to represent them in the debate. However, as Moishe spoke no Italian and the Pope spoke no Yiddish, they all agreed that it would be a silent debate.

On the chosen day, the Pope and the Rabbi sat opposite from eachother for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed 3 fingers.

Rabbi Moishe looked back and raised one finger.

Next, the Pope waved his finger around his head.

Rabbi Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat.

The Pope then brought out a communion wafer and a chalice of wine. Rabbi Moishe pulled out an apple.

With that the Pope stood up and declared that he was beaten, that Rabbi Moishe was too cleaver, and that the Jews could stay.

Later, the Cardinals met with The Pope, asking what had happened.

The Pope said," First, I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there is still only one GOd common to both beliefs. Then, I waved my finger to show him that GOd was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us. I then pulled out the wine and wafer to show that God absolves us of all of our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin. He had me beaten and I could not continue."

Meanwhile, the Jewish community were gathered around the Rabbi Moishe. "How
did you win the debate?", they asked.

"I haven't a clue,"said Moishe.

"First he said to me that I had 3 days to get out of Italy, so I gave him the finger. Then he tells me that the whole country would be cleared of Jews, and I said we are staying right here."

"And then what?" asked a woman.

"Who knows?" said Moishe, "He
took out his lunch so I took out mine."

While, for a brief moment we are on the subject of "religion" consider this:

Sister Mary, who worked for a home health agency, was out making her rounds visiting homebound patients when she ran out of gas. As luck would have it, a as station was just a block away.

She walked to the station to borrow a gas can and buy some gas. The attendant told her that the only gas can he owned had been loaned out, but she could wait until ti was returned.

Since the nun was on her way to see a patient, she decided not to wait and walked back to her car. She looked for something in her car that she could fill wiht gas and spotted a bed pan she was taking to the patient.

Always resourceful, she carried the bed pan to the station, filled it with gas and carried the full bed pan back to her car.

As she was pouring the gas into her tank, two men watched from across the street. One of them turned to the other and said, " If it starts, I'm turning Catholic!"

:) :) Night all!

Carole

-- November 27, 2006 3:51 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Monday's excahnge rate - Another drop

Announcement No.(813)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 813 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Monday 2006 / 11/ 27 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 9 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1439 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 20.580.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 20.580.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------

-- November 27, 2006 7:17 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

The Implications of the Improvement of the Iraqi Dinar Exchange Rate
Ali Mahmoud al-Fakiki Al-Hayat - 26/11/06//

The Iraqi dinar is witnessing a gradual improvement in its exchange rate these days. The price of the dinar has risen from $ 0.000676 in early November to $ 0.00069 later during the same month. This means that the number of dinars against one dollar dropped from 1480 dinars to 1440 during that period. It is noteworthy that the exchange rate in the 1970s was $3.20 for one dinar, which exceeds the current price by four thousand and six hundred times.
It seems that the Iraqi government is planning now to fix the exchange rate at 1000 dinars/dollars, which is almost one third. The government plans to make this gradual, in order to avoid a sudden rise. This was the lesson learned in the aftermath of the sudden catastrophic decline that had occurred among traders and businessmen in 1995 and the accompanying financial and commercial turmoil, bankruptcies and trade and banking collapses.
If the current rise of the exchange rate from 1480 dinars to 1000 dinars to one dollar is applied, some people in Iraq will gain while others will lose, as follows:
Losers:
A- Savers in dollar. Iraqi savers lost confidence in the dinar. This urged many of them to keep most of their savings in dollars. These include traders and industrialists. When they will need to convert their savings to dinars, the loss will be huge.
B- Contractors in projects priced in dollars: Those are paid in dollar, but the majority of their expenses and local purchases are usually in dinar. This includes the labor wages and their purchases of materials of local origin. This is the case with building and construction contractors who purchase local supplies and construction materials (bricks, soil, sand, gravel). When they submitted their quotations they had evaluated their contacting service at the prevailing exchange rate before raising the value of the dinar and now they have to pay at the new rate and hence lose. After they handover the projects, they will receive the rest of their money in dollars.
C- Lenders in dollar: They will regain their loans valued at less than the value before the rate of the dinar was raised.
D- Borrowers in dinar: They will pay their debts upon maturity in dinars of a dollar purchasing power more than that at the time of lending. They will have to pay in a dinar that exceeds the lending rate by almost one-third. When the major collapse happened in 1995, thousands of traders announced their bankruptcy while indebted to others, and this was disastrous.
E- Employees who earn in dollar.
F- Estate lessors with rental allowances in dollar while their expenses are in dinars.
G- Estate tenants who pay in dinar while their income is in dollar.
Gainers:
A- Savers in dinar, for being able to buy more dollars.
B- Employees and workers who are paid in dinar, since they will receive the same pay but with a more purchasing power and a better exchange rate.
C- Producers: since they will sell their products for the more powerful dinar.
D- Borrowers in dollar and whose savings are in dinar: since they will pay their debts and their interests in the cheaper dollar.
E- Retirees: they will have more purchases with the same salary.
F- Those covered by the program of the social safety network (the retirees themselves).
G- Estate lessors in dinar.
H- Estate tenants in dollar while their incomes are in dinar.
This means that raising the dinar exchange rate will benefit some and harm others.
It is noteworthy that the terrible continuous escalation in prices during the 1980s and 1990s of the last century in Iraq was not due to an increase in the value of money itself, but due to the fact that this increase was not met by a real balance or a strong national economy and national income or a supporting domestic product. When the State issued currency, it behaved like a merchant who issues instruments with no balance to meet their nominal value. Moreover, there were the constraints of trade and external transfer. Otherwise, the amount of money in circulation in a country like Japan is more than the amount of Iraqi currency in circulation (as an absolute figure).
During the post-war period, the balance was met, but the rise in prices was due to high costs and shortage of supply. For example, the average of the prices of Iraqi vegetables and fruit has increased this year by 100% as compared to the prices of 2005, but due to the shortfall in production. The agricultural expert Jaber Abu al-Eis (Ministry of Agriculture) says that the execution rate in the agricultural plan for 2006 amounted to 17%. The prices of local poultry products this year are twice as much as 2005. The reason was the banning of the poultry industry, among the procedures of combating avian flu and the prevention of the importation of these products from many countries. Moreover, it was due to the rise in the costs of energy, fuel and transportation costs to the double or even more. Also there are the imposed royalties paid by the importers, producers and transporters to gangs and bandits, including kidnapping payments and ransoms. There is also bribery, corruption and alliances between businessmen and government officials, in addition to the high wages, the rise in prices and interests of loans caused by the Central Bank. All these factors led to an increase in the cost of production and inflation rates. Such factors have to do with costs and supplies while they have nothing to do with demand. Thus, the saying, "Much money looking for a few commodities" does not apply here.
The current inflation is due to high cost and shortage of supply. Nowadays, the government ensured assets that cover the nominal value of money and a domestic product that supports it. But there remain two options. The first option is to increase the quantity (number of units) by a third, raise salaries and wages and expand and improve the miserable network of social safety to include additional numbers of extremely poor people living at half a dollar per day amounting to four million. The second option is that the government raises the dinar exchange rate by one third as it is planning now.
In the first case, the needy employees and workers who are not covered by social welfare will benefit, and there will be no loss or damage to other people. In the second case, employees, workers, retirees and others will benefit, but, at the same time, others will lose as mentioned earlier.
According to reliable sources, the second option comes in implementation of the directives of the International Monetary Fund. But, as we stated in a previous article, the former American Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, described the IMF as "a doctor who has only one pill for every conceivable illness".
* Mr. Ali Mahmoud al-Fakiki an Iraqi expert in economics

-- November 27, 2006 7:30 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Chris......

Thanks for the Dinar information. The steady improvement of the Dinar looks very positive.

Another positive sign is that some of their Companies have released a dividend in the form of "free capital shares". The only two stocks that I held and qualified for the dividend were Momora (gained 1638 shares) and Warka Bank (gained 58,334 shares). My other stocks stayed the same.

-- November 27, 2006 9:40 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

You found the article, good, very good info in this article.

The Dinar according to mr al-Fakiki is heading for a set 1000 to 1 in Dollar value.

Well, now we are in for another half a year, and then start speculating again, what they will do with the Dinar.

It would be a bummer if they are happy with the 1000 to 1 position. As oil starts to flow, the currency will automatically get stronger and stronger, but this is a very long term proposition. This investment IS a long term investment.

Also curious if and when there actually will be a "real" RV, or if this is as real as it will come.

Time will tell, time will tell.

-- November 27, 2006 10:40 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

DO you think that their potential goal of 1000:1 position will meet the requirements and deadline of Aug. 2007 by the IMF?

-- November 27, 2006 12:24 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Neil: Way to go! Way to stir things up! I like people who challenge conventional thinking. Personally, I'm happy to admit I am interested in making money on the dinar. I think money is fantastic. I want lots of it, and I think that's a good thing. I hope you get lots too.

That being said, I've been following world events since I was a kid. So my interest is not just limited to money. For me, politics is just a hobby, an interest to follow. One that I find quite interesting. Judging from the amount of fascinating political and religious discussion on this site, I'd say a lot of people share my interest. So, would I still be interested in Iraq if it wasn't for my investment? Sure, just not as much.

It's no different than my interest in hockey. I'm a hockey fanatic. I lived in Edmonton when Gretzky was playing there. I used to go to a lot of games. To me, politics is just a game. I treat it as such. It's a game involving the whole human race. What happens in this game affects the whole world.

Why does this matter? One of my biggest convictions about life is that we are all very very connected, in a web of life. Life lived strictly in my own little personal universe is nice and fine, but it seems a little small and petty, if my only interest is my own small circle of friends and family.

So, does Iraq matter? Sure. A lot of things do. Can it affect you personally? Sure. Whatever the past, whether you agree with the US going in, or not, being there or not, the truth is, if the Americans leave too early, and Iraq becomes a breeding ground for terrorists, and if radicals take over, and get access to the enormous potential wealth in that country, and if they decide to fund terrorism, this can lead right back to Neil. I don't know where you live, but wherever you are, expect there to be terrorism where you live, in your lifetime. You can expect it to affect you, or someone you know, or part of your country.

For a few centuries, Americans were isolated from the world. They were able to safely withdraw, in their own cacoon, in your own show. It was a very unique and fantastic time, in which Americans built an astonishingly brilliant country, maybe the greatest country in human history. You people went from a small agricultural country, where most people worked horse and ploughs in primitive, backbreaking farm work, to a country that built a device that put a man on the moon within a few hundred years. I hope you appreciate how truly astonishing that is, when compared to everything else that has happened in history.

That's the good news. The bad news is, I really hate to break this to you, Neil, but the show's over. That time is gone. Finished. Over. Kaput. And there aint no going back. That's one of the lessons of 9-11. As Roger put it, the Norman Rockwell America doesn't exist anymore. Remember Rockwell's great paintings? He's my favourite American painter. I thought he caught the essense of the idea of America that was cut off from the world, in it's own safe and ideal universe. That America ended in the 1960s, and 9-11 was a nail in the coffin of that charming little idealistic version of reality.

So, Neil, the next time the terrorists strike at the United States, think about your own views, in favour of isolationism, and ask yourself the Dr. Phil question: "How's that workin' for you?"

Turtle: All wars screw up. There's nothing special in that regard about this war. Actually, I take that back. By historical standards, the casualty levels Americans are taking are the lowest ever, in armed conflict. This is a new kind of war, and it is to be expected that many mistakes will and have been made. I trust in the American military leaders that they will and are learning as they go, and will apply lessons learned in the future. Whatever the mistakes, the American military is, far and away, the best in the world, by a long shot.

That brings something up that bothers me. I wish Americans would stop being so self-critical. As a Canadian, and a friendly outsider, I'd say, this is one thing that bothers me about Americans. They criticise a little too much, their own military, their own leadership. A little honest criticism is good and healthy, but an excess of criticism is unhealthy.

It's like criticism of the war effort in the American MSM. A bit of criticism is the proper role of a thinking and functioning free press. The American MSM goes way way way over the line on this. They criticise their own country and leadership way too much. And even more astonishing, they fail to criticise the other side enough. Very weird and warped, in my opinion.

Turtle, I talked to a Canadian vet once, who landed, I think it was near Normandy, on a beach where the Canadians landed, (I think it might have been Juno beach) about his experience. I asked him how it went. His comment was something like this: "Oh, Christ, it was horrible. Everything went wrong. First the RAF (Brits) bombed us, then the Americans bombed us. And then, in the fight, it went downhill from there. Screw-ups everywhere."

Feeling in the mood to be a smart-ass, I said to him, "I thought the Americans were on our side."

Looking up, he replied, "I thought so too."

So, like I said, things always go wrong in war. Whatever the war, be it WWII, Iraq, that doesn't change. It's a given. The only thing is to plan as well as possible and to try to minimize screw-ups.

So, keep your eyes and ears open.

Carole: thanks for the jokes!

-- November 27, 2006 12:36 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Hi Tim,

I was thinking of you on Thanksgiving Day. I bought an aluminum roaster pan
( the throw away type), and when I turned it over to remove the label, it said
"made in Canada"... shocked me. I don't ever remember anything I have ever bought that said made in Canada. I thought of you and hoped you were having a great day.

YOur last posting was very astute and relevant as usual.

Many years ago, I watched an interview conducted by Diane Sawyer ( YUK!). SHe had the audacity to take on Margret Thatcher.

It was during the Regan years, and Diane was being very critical of Reagan.

Margret went on to tell her, in only a classy, but put dpwn tp the point, that she and all Americans who criticize in a demeaning and disrespectful way should be ashamed of themselves. That it speaks so poorly of the American culture and intellect.

Tim, it was wonderful to see diane's face almost collapse. Margret never broke her royal style and demeanor.

BY the way, I really don't have many " idols" in my life, but the one who took my heart and mind as a true lady and diplomat was Margret Thatcher.

-- November 27, 2006 1:09 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Providential..
As the link to Iran in the intentional killing (IEDs, etc) of the US, Iraqi and coalition troops is undeniable...
and if you had to point a finger at the fellows responsible..

Plane crash kills 30 Iranian guardsmen

By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer Mon Nov 27, 6:30 AM ET

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranian state television reported that a plane crashed in the capital early Monday, killing members of the elite Revolutionary Guards, including high-ranking officers, in the third military air plane crash in the last year.

"Some 30 members of the elite Revolutionary guards and six crew members were killed in the crash while they were heading for a military site," state-run television said, reading a statement from the Guards.

Gen. Eskandar Moemeni, a deputy police chief, told reporters that 39 people had been killed, including three who died at a hospital.

In January, a military Falcon, a small passenger jet, crashed in northwestern Iran, killing the commander of the ground forces of the Revolutionary Guards. In December, a U.S.-made C-130 military transport crashed into a 10-story building near Tehran's Mehrabad airport, killing 115 people.

The Revolutionary Guards are separate from the regular armed forces. Founded after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, they have their own air, naval and ground components. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a former commander in the Guards.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_plane_crash

-- November 27, 2006 1:14 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger/Turtle - interesting comments on isolationism and that it does not work.
I agree with you turtle, we HAD to go into Iraq - now it is maturely dealing with it the way it is -
and those who lament past actions they willingly and knowingly got into are just bellyachers.
I bet they are divorcees, too, and argued similarly to get out of that willing commitment -
(I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't have enough information about my spouse..
it was all just a terrible mistake, I should never have done it.. etc.)

Willie - Again, thank you for your very kind comments. :)
Chris - Thanks for the exchange rate info and 1000 article you tracked down. :)

Tim - I liked your view of the world as being relatives we have to get along with..
and are better off WITH.. than without. Astute viewpoint, very true.

Carole - obviously Diane Sawyer and her ilk didn't take the advice of Margaret Thatcher to heart.. the look on her face was just "I was seen through" not.. "oh no, what have I done" (with heartfelt repentance). If you remember, the most famous betrayer (Judas) also was upset he was seen through.. even being disgusted enough to return the money he had been paid to betray the Lord. However, he never repented, either. Perhaps it is a trademark of all such Benedict Arnolds and Communist/fascist/terrorist sympathizers/spies.. that they betray openly and act upset if someone catches it and sees through them... but never truly change. I guess it comes down to loyalties.. and obviously - in this case - they have greater loyalty to something other than the country of the United States - no matter what their profession is to the contrary. Their actions speak so loudly that it drowns out all their multitudinous words to the contrary. The CNN snuf movie sealed it for many.. the MSM is no longer working in the interests of America when they air propaganda straight from the terrorists (see the article yesterday also, above http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126574 ).
I hope more are able to see through them as Thatcher (ahead of her time) did and stop trusting the mainstream media as though they are unbiased and truthful in their news coverage.

I didn't much like the jokes you posted and addressed toward me, Carole.. different sense of humor, I guess. I much prefer the Groucho Marx type humor like his: "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Roger - thanks for the CNN post delineating the times the Glenn Beck program will be on.

Sara.

-- November 27, 2006 2:06 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

1000:1 isn't much of an RV

I can't tell if the CBI has any visibility on the number of Dinar in the hands of investors. When every day is a fight for life, somethings may fall off the radar screen.

Having said that, I have been expecting some token RV to shake out some of the investors. This is strickly my gut feeling. I plan to hold for a while.

I can see by reading some of the other sites that there are folks just chompin at the bit to cash out. CBI may get some of those.

-- November 27, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

---

valerio wrote:

Sara,
How do you judge that Judas never repented? Returning the money may indicate he did. Let me ask you this, how does a man hang himself after being cut from adams apple to belly button, with his entrails spilled out?

-- November 27, 2006 4:01 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Chris,

Agree, 1000 to 1 isn't that much, however this is the first time the Dinar have been moving in YEARS.

I honestly don't think the CBI have much of a plan to flush out anctious investors, that have ants crawling in their pants, and cant sit still. Their true intention is most probably exactly what they say, to get a handle on the inflation.

What gets me is the statement from the financial expert, that claims that the raise is set to 1000 to 1. I don't doubt the expert, I'm sure he have gotten the number from some source or the other, and being who he is, he probably have a lot of connection with economical and financial persons, and can easily have acquired such info.

This again, make me shake my head, in the way the Iraqis finances and currency is handled.

How can you in before hand know where the Dinar will cure the problem you are intending to fix?

The Dinar will after a fix like that, still be very very undervalued.

Chris, I would just stash you Dinar bills in a safe place, and don't touch them for quite some time.

You can wait and get out, when the Dinar hits the 1000 to 1, and you will get some, but just some, money back. I do believe the train have just started to roll, though, for the first time, they have gotten the idea that currency actually can change in value, they seem to be extremely fearful of touching it in the past. Almost like carefully kicking an unknown abandoned box, in order to see if it will explode.

Oh yes, there is a lot of people that are so tired of waiting, having expected to be millionaires a couple of years back, that they take anything to just get out of the game. Oh well, it's a long term investment.

Neil,

Don't get me wrong in any way or form, the old times, I would loooooooove to get them back, there was other qualities in those times that is very much lacking now days, values, rules of life, I would say there was a trust, that you cant see no more.

We trusted each other so much more back then, could leave cars unlocked, many homes never locked the doors. Two 14 year old boys, could have a .22 across the steering bar, and go out to a field, shooting. Today that would trigger a SWAT team.

The TRUST that was there, have gone to very very low levels today.

THAT I miss, and wish we could get back.

Not easy when psychotic fascists are flying airplanes into buildings.

Sara,

Groucho Marx was a kick. One of my favourite lines:

"-The garbage man is here"
"-Tell him we don't want any"

Oh, Sara, yes Chris posted the article, but I had three posts above that one, telling about where to find it. I'm not that pjuter literate, don't know how to post articles, can only steer in the direction of them. One thing that I found very helpful is to set up a "Google Alert". All you do is to write the key words, and Google will alert you when new articles or postings on that subject will pop up on the web. That's how this article popped up, now, if I just would be able to post them.

I knew I was in trouble, when VHS videos first came on the market, and my video, was always flashing "12.00" all the time.

Just bought a digital camera, it had a book to it, very thick book, and I''m about to give up. I want the film camera back.

Valerio,

Easy, you already have all the intestines floating around in front of you, just wrap them around the neck, and Voila, done.

Turtle,

Yeah, we have to be there, but in the long run, they have to play ball themselves, however in this very writing moment, the Sad'r have started to set ultimatums, I can foresee, a breaking point between Malakis priorities.

Malaki have been able to dip it both ways for quite some time, but I think very soon now, he have to make a choice what he needs most, USA or Sad'r.

Sad'r might be a very hard piece to cut for him, but he knows he just can't cut USA out of the picture.

There is a question, aired on MSM, but a valid question nevertheless. Sad'r is Shiite, and there is a lot of Shiite militia, Sad'rs militia is big, but the question is, how much of the Shiite militia does he actually control?

Sad'r says, that Malaki can't meet with President Bush, ok Malaki must meet with President Bush, that will happen, now what will Sad'r do, draw another line in the sand, or start a war. He have already threatened to withdraw the 30 or so delegates from the Iraqi congress ( might as well).

TURTLE, does it seems like things are coming to a head over there,??? from this perspective it certainly seems like the big for and against forces are polarizing.

I'd say, so much better, that will identify who is who, if the battle begins.

-- November 27, 2006 5:36 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

valerio wrote:
Sara,
How do you judge that Judas never repented? Returning the money may indicate he did. Let me ask you this, how does a man hang himself after being cut from adams apple to belly button, with his entrails spilled out?

===end of quote===

Where do you get the idea he was cut from his adams apple to his belly button with his entrails spilled out?
The Bible clearly says of Judas the betrayer:

Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Jesus also clearly said he was lost, here:

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name: those whom You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost except the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Jesus was clearly speaking of His disciples in this Scripture in John 17 and said that only ONE was lost.. the son of perdition (hell).. which was Judas.

I think you must be referring to the person who TOOK UP THE SILVER that Judas had cast down in the Scripture above (Matthew 27:5) and bought a field with it. His purchase was cursed by God and the man "fell headlong, burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out", in this Scripture:

Act 1:16 "Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus;
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry."
Act 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no man dwell in it: and let another take his office.

These two verses (18 and 19), do not refer to Judas but to someone else who took up the silver money which Judas had cast down onto the ground in the temple. Judas obviously did not use the money to buy anything, for it says clearly he "cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." It was, however, blood money - so the narrative is following the money to show what became of it and the person who used it because it is important as it is a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophetic Scriptures. It then resumes the purpose of the passage which was to replace Judas with another disciple. The apostles clearly state only a few verses later that Judas did not go to heaven but "to his own place":

Act 1:24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
Act 1:25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

The idea being that "his own place" is not with the Lord, but separate - "his own". The idea of people all being buddies in hell together is false - it is a place of isolation, unique to each person.. "his own place". It wouldn't be hell if there was a common sense of happiness in it. Hell is a place of all opposites from that which is good, pleasurable or happy.

People who have died and gone to hell have a tale to tell, but you won't hear it from the "life after death" people - they will not publish any negative stories because it doesn't fit with the "life after death" message of peace and "a being of light" they wish to hold out to people. Unbiased coverage isn't in their interests.. because they have an agenda they wish to push. Doesn't it seem a bit strange that NOT ONE person is ever quoted as having an unhappy after death experience? Not ONE.. out of all the many, many records? Bit fishy to me.. but then, I like to hear the straight goods, and then reckon with all the facts as they stand.. not live in someone else's fantasy which quotes only those who support their religious beliefs. A bit like living under Islam in Iran (which is also afraid of letting their people hear the unvarnished truth) - they remove all that might lead away from the conclusion they want.. the "life after death" people's conclusion being that it makes no difference what you believe in - we all go to the same place... something ALL the evidence opposes (the parts they suppress), and something Jesus Christ vehemently opposed when He taught in John 8:24 ..if you do not believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins. Dying in your sins was not seen as a worthwhile thing to do.. because of the consequences of it (hell).

Sara.

-- November 27, 2006 6:52 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

So sorry about that.. you are right.. it was you that brought that significant find about the 1000:1 rumor to the board and gave the url to it. Thank you very much!! :)

It is an interesting rumor... and one we will see quite soon if it is to be implemented or not. I've heard speculation that it could be disinformation.. but time alone will tell. It is nice to see the Dinar value moving, and as you pointed out, 1000:1 does NOT stop the "sucking sound" of the vaccume.. that is - it isn't at a natural equalibrium at that valuation - it is still very drastically undervalued. Such a continued "pull" on the world economy (even at 1000:1) causes inequities.. and nature abhors such a vaccume.

Sara.

-- November 27, 2006 7:08 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Vacuum not vaccume.. sorry.
Weird word, really..
not too many words with a double U.. "uu"... in them, are there?

"Latin, empty space, from neuter of vacuus, empty."

English.. Latin.. same thing. ;)

I liked these definitions of Vacuum:

- A state of being sealed off from external or environmental influences; isolation.
- A space in which the pressure is significantly lower than atmospheric pressure.
- a space partially exhausted (as to the highest degree possible) by artificial means (as an air pump)
- a degree of rarefaction below atmospheric pressure : negative pressure

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=vacuum

I like these definitions because the Dinar is sealed off from external or environmental economic pressures - it is isolated.
It is significantly lower than if it floated in the regular "atmospheric" pressure of the global economy..
It has been placed where it is by artificial means (like an air pump does with a vacuum)..
and it causes a negative pressure on the economy as a vacuum does on the air's atmospheric pressure,
until it finds equalibrium.

Sara.

-- November 27, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

---

CYMRU001 wrote:

The 1000/1 exchange is not where this will end. Will the Dinar be freely traded on the forex when it gets to this figure? Will the oil be flowing?

There has been a point made (Tim I think) about 'stuff'. We all love stuff, and I think this 'mini RV' will start the Iraqi people on this road. The more they can begin to buy with their Dinar, the more they will want to buy. They will become obsessed with owning things and move away from killing each other and our soldiers in order to concentrate on getting stuff. They will frown upon those who continue to wage war against the great satan as the majority of Iraqi's will come to see America as the saviour of their country.

But the oil needs to flow.

-- November 27, 2006 7:41 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Mortars set fire to US base in Iraq

By BASSEM MROUE

BAGHDAD, Iraq Nov 26, 2006 (AP)— Two mortar rounds hit a U.S. military post in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, setting it on fire, police and witnesses said. A large cloud of black smoke was seen rising above Baladiyat, a predominantly Shiite area of capital, at about 3 p.m.

Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a U.S. military spokesman, confirmed that "indirect fire rounds" had landed in the vicinity of the coalition forward operating base, but he refused to describe the results of the attack, saying that would allow "the enemy" to assess its effectiveness.

He said the strike was launched from just outside nearby Sadr City, the Shiite slum where more than 200 people were killed on Thursday in an attack by Sunni Arab insurgents using car bombs and mortars.

No casualties were reported by Bleichwehl or by police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani, who said Iraqi security forces didn't have access to the U.S. military post.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2679997

SJ wrote:

True or False? "Two mortar rounds hit a U.S. military post in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, setting it on fire, police and witnesses said. A large cloud of black smoke was seen rising above Baladiyat, a predominantly Shiite area of capital, at about 3 p.m."

FALSE!!! WRONG!! the AP report you just read is A LIE…..Mortar fire from Sadr City missed the base, and set a small building on fire a couple of blocks away. The reporter wouldn't venture out, saw smoke, figured the attack set the place on fire. Reporting Iraqi style, and msm sensationalism at it’s most regretable.

The attack wasnt successful. They freakin missed. Too bad the news is now outright lies instead of misinformation.

1sttofight wrote:

SJ,

The msm just cant get out of election campaign mode.
Just print any lie and the dumbass public will believe it.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/missed-news-items-for-the-week-of-nov-26-dec-2

-- November 27, 2006 7:51 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

It's Official: Media Body Burning Story is Bogus
Posted by Greg Sheffield on November 27, 2006 - 13:25.

The news that six Sunnis were captured by Shiites, doused with kerosine and burned alive, was too sensational to not be picked up by the mainstream media. But it turns out that the event never happened. Furthermore, the Iraqi "spokesman" relied on to give all information regarding this event is as fictional as the story itself.

Jamil Hussein, the man news reports called "police Capt. Jamil Hussein," was the source for all information regarding the burning. Although he is mentioned by USA Today, the Associated Press, CBS News, and other outlets, Central Command says no such person exists. Centcom also asked the Associated Press to retract the story unless it has proof beyond Jamil Hussein's word.

Flopping Aces has a press release from Centcom, which is in charge of all U.S. forces in the Middle East.

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Dear Associated Press:

On Nov. 24, 2006, your organization published an article by Qais Al-Bashir about six Sunnis being burned alive in the presence of Iraqi Police officers. This news item, which is below, received an enormous amount of coverage internationally.

We at Multi-National Corps - Iraq made it known through MNC-I Press Release Number 20061125-09 and our conversations with your reporters that neither we nor Baghdad Police had any reports of such an incident after investigating it and could find no one to corroborate the story. A couple of hours ago, we learned something else very important. We can tell you definitively that the primary source of this story, police Capt. Jamil Hussein, is not a Baghdad police officer or an MOI employee. We verified this fact with the MOI through the Coalition Police Assistance Training Team.

Also, we definitely know, as we told you several weeks ago through the MNC-I Media Relations cell, that another AP-popular IP spokesman, Lt. Maithem Abdul Razzaq, supposedly of the city’s Yarmouk police station, does not work at that police station and is also not authorized to speak on behalf of the IP. The MOI has supposedly issued a warrant for his questioning.

I know we have informed you that there exists an MOI edict that no one below the level of chief is authorized to be an Iraqi Police spokesperson. An unauthorized IP spokesperson will get fired for talking to the media. While I understand the importance of a news agency to use anonymous and unauthorized sources, it is still incumbent upon them to make sure their facts are straight. Was this information verified by anyone else? If the source providing the information is lying about his name, then he ought not to be represented as an official IP spokesperson and should be listed as an anonymous source.

Unless you have a credible source to corroborate the story of the people being burned alive, we respectfully request that AP issue a retraction, or a correction at a minimum, acknowledging that the source named in the story is not who he claimed he was. MNC-I and MNF-I are always available and willing to verify events and provide as much information as possible when asked.

Very respectfully,
LT XXXXXX

XXXX X XXXXXXXX
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
MNC-I Joint Operations Center
Public Affairs Officer

http://newsbusters.org/node/9280

-- November 27, 2006 8:14 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Just so you can see that our current situation with the war is not new to the American scene.....read the following. It also proves I stayed awake during history classes in Jr. High School.....

===========================================================================================================

Copperheads (Peace Democrats)

Although the Democratic party had broken apart in 1860, during the secession crisis Democrats in the North were generally more conciliatory toward the South than were Republicans. They called themselves Peace Democrats; their opponents called them Copperheads because some wore copper pennies as identifying badges.
A majority of Peace Democrats supported war to save the Union, but a strong and active minority asserted that the Republicans had provoked the South into secession; that the Republicans were waging the war in order to establish their own domination, suppress civil and states rights, and impose "racial equality"; and that military means had failed and would never restore the Union.
Peace Democrats were most numerous in the Midwest, a region that had traditionally distrusted the Northeast, where the Republican party was strongest, and that had economic and cultural ties with the South. The Lincoln administration's arbitrary treatment of dissenters caused great bitterness there. Above all, anti-abolitionist Midwesterners feared that emancipation would result in a great migration of blacks into their states.
As was true of the Democratic party as a whole, the influence of Peace Democrats varied with the fortunes of war. When things were going badly for the Union on the battlefield, larger numbers of people were willing to entertain the notion of making peace with the Confederacy. When things were going well, Peace Democrats could more easily be dismissed as defeatists. But no matter how the war progressed, Peace Democrats constantly had to defend themselves against charges of disloyalty. Revelations that a few had ties with secret organizations such as the Knights of the Golden Circle helped smear the rest.
The most prominent Copperhead leader was Clement L. Valladigham of Ohio, who headed the secret antiwar organization known as the Sons of Liberty. At the Democratic convention of 1864, where the influence of Peace Democrats reached its high point, Vallandigham persuaded the party to adopt a platform branding the war a failure, and some extreme Copperheads plotted armed uprisings. However, the Democratic presidential candidate, George B. McClellan, repudiated the Vallandigham platform, victories by Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman and Phillip H. Sheridan assured Lincoln's reelection, and the plots came to nothing.
With the conclusion of the war in 1865 the Peace Democrats were thoroughly discredited. Most Northerners believed, not without reason, that Peace Democrats had prolonged war by encouraging the South to continue fighting in the hope that the North would abandon the struggle.
Source: "Historical Times Encyclopedia of the Civil War" Edited by Patricia L. Faust

-- November 27, 2006 8:21 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

AP Makes It Even Worse?
Posted by Dan Riehl on November 27, 2006 - 16:54.

I already linked to Flopping Aces, read his bust of the AP here. Given that, or even aside from it, should this, (registration required) via the AP, be in the main Iraq story in the Chicago Tribune today? Quote:

Separately, police and witnesses said U.S. soldiers shot and killed 11 civilians and wounded five on Sunday night in the Baghdad suburb of Husseiniya.

"We were sitting inside our house when the Americans showed up and started firing at homes. They killed many people and burned some houses," said one of the witnesses, a man with bandages on his head who was being treated at Imam Ali Hospital in the Shiite slum of Sadr City. The police and witnesses spoke with Associated Press Television News on condition of anonymity to protect their own security.

===end of quote==

The military denies any operation in the area, still the AP feels compelled to print this trash from sources who won't even identify themselves?

"The U.S. military said it had no record of any American military operation in the area."

Will anyone hold the AP to account? Or will the above be headlining the MSM network coverage tonight?

http://newsbusters.org/node/9284

-- November 27, 2006 8:23 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

CYMRU001 wrote:

The 1000/1 exchange is not where this will end. Will the Dinar be freely traded on the forex when it gets to this figure? Will the oil be flowing?

===end of quote===

I agree CYMRU001. Your comments show that "equalibrium" has not been reached. The forex does indeed figure in to the equation, thanks for the reminder. :)

Sara.

-- November 27, 2006 8:37 PM ∞

---

Neil wrote:

Fellas:

I'm really astounded as to how anyone could interpret my post as advocay of isolationism. We can be a friend and a trading partner
and be involved in all the activities of the world without taking responsibility for a Country.

I may be old-timey but I still believe that the test "Is it good for America" or "How will America benefit from this action or this union" must be applied to our activities.

I must not be a good-hearted as the rest of you. Roger seemed to understand my position but the rest of you took the high-road that you were above failing to share our wealth with other nations and allowing any kind of wrongdoing to go on in this world without our getting involved.

I posted several months ago that the Republican Party was in jeopardy over our involvement in Iraq-need I say more? I am now telling you that electing a Republican President is in jeopardy if we don't change something that we are doing in Iraq. The Governor of California's approval hit a low ebb when he continued to go against the will of the people but he had sense enought to change courses and advocate what was best for California in the people's eyes-a landslide victory.

I will fade into the background and not post as often since very few share my viewpoint, but again, I am for what is best for America/

-- November 27, 2006 11:39 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

The article I was going to post was found and posted by Chris from Dinar Trade.com

I guess I did have good reason to be concerned as detailed by some of the other postings.

On the political scene things look even crazier, with the US looking to Iran and Syria for help in solving the Iraq insurgency.

Have I missed something???? Do we not have disolved relations wiht Iran for at least 20 years? ANd isn't Syria the terriorist capital of the world???

If we take them on as " Partners" does this not jepordaize our ability to strongarm them if need be?

I don't get any of it anymore. Truly, this world has gone crazy and the US proves it has no backbone and has no idea what the term VICTORY means anymore.

Get our youngens home!!!Let the world self destruct--at least we will have our yougens with us, where we can hug and hold them close when it all comes crashing down---which seems inevitable!!

I am totally dismayed and don't care anymore about the dinar or any thing that has to do with that part of the world. I agree with Neil....

-- November 28, 2006 1:29 AM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Sara,
I didn't know if you knew it, but this has been a real problem for scholars for hundreds of years. The Mathew account documents that Judas cast down the silver in the temple, and went and hanged himself, and the chief priests jointly took up the silver and bought the potters field. This fulfilled that "spoken" by Jeremy the prophet (but was written in Zech).
Acts 1:16-26 documents something different. The subject is Judas and carries throughout, even in 18-19. The original Greek word used for field in Mathew is different than that word used in Acts, as well as the words used for bought. Therefore the original text reads that the chief priests bought a field (in Math), Judas acquired a place (in Acts)with the rewards of iniquity. Its documented that Judas was a thief, and held the monies, and used to take it(John 12:6). The potters field was afterward known as agros haimatos = field bought with the price of blood (30 pcs). The place acquired by Judas was afterward known as Akeldama = place of blood, were he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out. The word for headlong is not used in the bible in any other place. This is a brief summary, and theres more about it if you want to dig into it. I think Judas had alittle help bursting open, after all he repented when he saw that Jesus was condemed. Judas believed he was forcing Jesus prove himself, establishing the Kingdom that he would be keeping account of all the money in. The high priest couldn't have had him running his mouth now could he?
Whats the point? You must often take it back to the original languages, and many times a new light is turned on.

-- November 28, 2006 5:55 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Neil,

C'mon, be around, you're a kick.

About Arnold in Ca, well I have followed that a bit, and the way I see it, the voters pulled his rug.

First there was a Governor that was kicked out of office, because of very very low results.

Arnold came along and said, I can fix it. And they voted him in.

Then he needed the tools to fix it, and had a vote about it.

Then the Californians said ....naa, you cant have it. And voted against the very measures that would have fixed it.

Now he's boxed in, and have to follow the will of the people, that voted him in there to fix it, but didnt gave him the autority to fix it.

Nevada is looking better and better, but I think I stay for now anyway.

-- November 28, 2006 6:36 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Tuesday Exchange Rate

Announcement No.(814)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 814 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Tuesday 2006 / 11/ 28 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 6 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1437 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 865.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 865.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------ -----

-- November 28, 2006 8:00 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sorry for the outburst of frustration last night.

Heard Pres. Bush in the wee hours of the morning and feel a little better. Hope he has the guts to stick to his points.

HOpe he leaves his office with a gift to the world, like taking out Iran, Syria and N. Korea, who have no fear of the US.

We need a healthy fear to be instilled again to those who advocate our demise.

As Reagan so profoundly put it, "peace through strength".

Have a great day ...all.

Again, sorry for the outburst.

-- November 28, 2006 9:03 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole…..

So glad you clarified your earlier post….I even ran outside twice to see if the sky really was falling.

I agree with you on the “strength” posture of a nation. A country needs the strength and confidence to take on all comers with ease and not be intimidated by the bad guys. My favorite saying is “walk softly, but carry a big stick”.

I have great confidence in our President and his team. They will resolve the Iraq situation in a positive manner for the US despite all the BS from the MSM.

-- November 28, 2006 10:37 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: hang in there. It'll be fine.

-- November 28, 2006 12:06 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The Kurds keep pushing the envelope and making good progress....good news!! Plus...I heard that the Canadian guy is related to Tim Bitts and we're going to have the pig roast in Kurdistan....small change though...it's going to be a goat grab instead of the pig...oh well......
=======================================================
DUBAI: Iraqi developers said Monday they have launched a $350 million project to build a lush "mini-city" in the relative safety of the war-wracked country's northern Kurdish region. The development of "Empire World" in the Kurdish capital of Arbil is designed to "show some hope and some opportunities" in Iraqi Kurdistan, said Michel Hebert, CEO of the Iraqi-owned group Empire Holdings which is behind the venture.

Empire World, which broke ground in June, covers 750,000 square meters of integrated commercial, residential, hotel and leisure facilities in a "mini-city" all-inclusive environment, Canadian-born Hebert told reporters in Dubai.

"The site is designed to provide its users with the latest and most sophisticated technology and services," and will feature two towers, one providing office space and the other housing a luxury hotel, Hebert said.

The project will cost $350 million over eight years, he said, describing Kurdistan as "safe and secure, with a booming investment environment and a diversified economy."
http://www.dailystar.com.lb

-- November 28, 2006 1:04 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Mathew account documents that Judas cast down the silver in the temple, and went and hanged himself, and the chief priests jointly took up the silver and bought the potters field. This fulfilled that "spoken" by Jeremy the prophet (but was written in Zech).

==end of quote==

I have always thought that the purchase of the field with the blood money was attributed to Judas, though others were the ones who did the transaction. It is as though blood money has a stain on it that remains with the original owner (in this case Judas) to such an extent that it carries on as a "curse".. much as the "Hope diamond" which is reputed to carry a similar curse no matter who owns it (and few have ever dared to because of the fearful things that happen to those who do own it). If the Hope diamond were to be bought by others.. it would still be seen and called the Hope diamond.. not the new person's. The "curse" follows the cursed object (at least to some extent) and in this case, the curse was upon the money.. it was Judas' money and the purchase of the field is attributed to Judas, for the price of the field was paid for with Judas' blood money. You also attest to this when you wrote: "The potters field was afterward known as agros haimatos = field bought with the price of blood (30 pcs). The place acquired by Judas was afterward known as Akeldama = place of blood, were he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out." The question is, to whose account is the money reckoned by God after Judas' death? Is the money after his death reckoned to be the property of the chief priests before whom he cast down the 30 pcs of silver.. or is it still Judas' blood money?

I think the interpretation of the money still being Judas' after his death and not the priests - so that Judas is seen as being the one who purchased the field where he was hanged (though it was the priests with the blood money who transacted the deal) is supported in the clear words of the Tyndale translation which reads, "For he was numbered with us and had obtained fellowship in this ministration, and the same hath now possessed a plot of ground with the reward of iniquity. And when he was hanged, burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it is known unto all the inhabiters of Jerusalem; insomuch that the field is called in their mother tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The blood field."

When it says, "the same hath now possessed a plot of ground with the reward of iniquity" - this can be read as, 'but NOW (subsequent to Judas' death) this plot is possessed as by Judas with the reward of iniquity". I do not see it as incompatible with the priests doing the transaction with the blood money, buying the field Judas hung himself in - so that the stain of the money followed the betrayer and the field was called the purchase of Judas and NOT the priest's field. The priests certainly wanted it all connected to Judas and no part of the stain of blood money upon them - hence it is called Judas' purchase and not their own. The curse goes upon Judas and not upon those who purchased the field with his money. No priest wished his name remembered as purchaser of the field of blood - hence it was attributed to Judas only (and likely the title documents were made out in his name, not the priest's), fulfilling the prophetic Scripture from the Old Testament.

Therefore, upon closer inspection, these two accounts are not incompatible or contradictory. The Acts Scripture which speaks of "falling headlong" is compatible with Judas being the one who "hanged" himself in the field as there is evidence the text refers to hanging (as Tyndale also notes above in his translation: "And when he was hanged, burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.") This is something I did not see before because the words used were different, leading me to the conclusion it was not the same person under discussion but a separate incident inserted into the narrative to explain the blood money's use as a fulfillment of prophetic Scripture - as you said, original languages help in these instances and I am pleased the Tyndale Translation agrees on this point. The Matthew text is also correct because the field was subsequently purchased with the 30 pcs of silver Judas cast down before the priests (The potters field was afterward known as agros haimatos = field bought with the price of blood (30 pcs)) and later the field was attributed to Judas as the owner.) Therefore, though they take up different viewpoints of the same issues, the two Scriptures are not contradictions but compatible and understandable with the events as they unfolded (and much easier for those who lived in those times to understand the references, no doubt.)

But rather than splitting hairs on certain estoeric teachings, perhaps we might take any further discussion off board?

If you wish to discuss it any further, you can email me at saraand-at-fastmail.fm.

Sara.

-- November 28, 2006 1:51 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

The increase have slowed down a bit over a 10 day period. Right now they are in average doing 1.5 points / day as an average.

It's interesting to see the amount of Dollars auctioned off. This auction had a sum of under a million, never seen that before, 865.000 Dollars to be exact.

When auctioning off a foreign currency that is pegged to the country's currency, and at the same time raising the value of the country's own currency, that gives a very interesting problem.

Elsewhere in the world, Dollars are sought after as more or less the world currency, but as those Dinars and Dollar are the only two player in the CBI's set up, no one wants their Dollars, as the only alternative given, the Dinar, will be more valued as time goes by.

Maybe it's time to scrap the auction, and let the Dinar float truly free.

-- November 28, 2006 2:07 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Neil: In no way should you stop posting. Just be prepared for comments ot come back. In this case, what you stated is definitely isolationism. In 1910 and 1939 we had trading partners and allies but chose to keep our military on our shores. That policy failed miserably as everyone knows. The trick comes in knowing when to use pre-emptive military or less public measures to intercept a perceived threat and when to let things play out in hopes the problem will solve itself. The trouble for the poor schmuck that makes that decision is every knows when we fail to stop a Hitler and many believe we messed up by stopping a "harmless" little Saddam. However, no one every really knows if that decision maker is right. We may never know if Bush made the right call. As for me, I remember the evidence that lead us into this conflict and I backed it. I've seen briefings and things since coming here that cause me to continue to support the decisions to come here but not back a war that our soldiers are trying to fight with tied hands due to political decisions.

All that said, everyon has a right to an opinion, including those who disagree. If Carl let that stop him, he would have taken the bad hygiene cracks and left a long time ago. So post on man, it's on topic and it's an intellectual debate.

-- November 28, 2006 2:11 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

You're being constantly baited from people in cloak. It will be so much more fun if you rewire your push buttons, to a dynamite charge, or an electric prod inserted in a cavity of your own choice, IN THE ORIGINATOR OF THE BAIT.

-- November 28, 2006 2:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

TURTLE,

Agree, Neil is a kick. In communicating it's a give and take, when giving try to be careful, when recieveing be prepared for anything.

I mostly fail on the first point.

Turtle, Sad'r have an ultimatum, Malaki goes to Bush, Sad'r will pull out. Hamas (supported by Iran) admitted training of insurgents in Iraq.

Malaki must come, he can't afford to drop USA. Does it seem like Sad'r have full control of all his militia, or does the Shiite militia consist of numeous autonomous cells, not controlled by Sad'r ?

If it comes to a break (I hope), will Sad'r live up to his promise?

Any news regarding that?

-- November 28, 2006 2:41 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Before I started buying Dinars, my thought process was fairly simple and went like the following. I reviewed it today and will stand pat on my hand.

CAN THE US WIN THE BATTLES IN IRAQ?
I was lucky during my Time in Iraq and spent most of my time surrounded by US Marines. It was awhile since I had been this close to our Military and needless to say the men and women of our Military are impressive and left no doubt in my mind that the answer to my question was YES.

CAN WE CONVERT THEIR GOVERNMENT?
I knew that everyone from our President on down was putting on the full court press to make this happen. Several of the surrounding countries have a fairly moderate Government and I knew the Iraqi’s wanted a change so my answer to this question was YES.

DOES IRAQ HAVE ASSETS THAT SUPPORT THEIR DINARS?
This was almost a no-brainer because Iraq has always had good assets going back to Biblical times. They always had trade, water and agriculture. Now they’ve added oil and gas to their cookie jar. All they have to do is get their country going again so the answer to my question was YES.

WILL THE DINAR GO UP IN VALUE?
I’ve spent over 20 years in the Middle East as a contractor doing Systems and Instrument Engineering/construction work. I’ve worked mostly in Saudi Arabia but also did 18 months in Iraq. I’m now in the US but still involved with projects in Iraq. Due to this background, I knew the Iraqi’s would have to spend a huge amount of money to re-build their petro-chemical, power, water and other elements of their infrastructure. I don’t believe they will pay for all of this work with the current value of the Dinar. My answer to this question was YES.

WHAT’S THE FUTURE VALUE OF THE DINAR?
That’s the burning question and probably the only people who know are light years above us. My educated guess is somewhere between 28 US cents to 1 US Dollar. I believe their assets would support 1 Dinar=1 Dollar but it will be introduced at a lower value and let the market decide. I estimate they won’t go lower in value than their Sunni neighbors to the South of them. National pride kicks in on this one. So my answer to this question is I don’t know but I’m investing on the premise that it will be at least 28 US cents=1 Dinar. I started buying Dinar in July 2004, about a month after I arrived in Iraq, and my most recent purchase was in Jan. 2006. I have 50% in Warka Bank and the rest in cash. COM’ON DINAR……

-- November 28, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

More Disturbing Details Emerge About The Flying Imams
From the Washington Times:

How the imams terrorized an airliner
By Audrey Hudson
November 28, 2006

Muslim religious leaders removed from a Minneapolis flight last week exhibited behavior associated with a security probe by terrorists and were not merely engaged in prayers, according to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials.

Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks — two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.

"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."

According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior.

Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she "found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting." Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.

The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed.

A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.

"That’s like shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater. You just can’t do that anymore," said Robert MacLean, a former air marshal.

"They should have been denied boarding and been investigated," Mr. MacLean said. "It looks like they are trying to create public sympathy or maybe setting someone up for a lawsuit."

The pilot with another airline who talked to The Washington Times on condition of anonymity, said he would have made the same call as the US Airways pilot.

"If any group of passengers is commingling in the terminal and didn’t sit in their assigned seats or with each other, I would stop everything and investigate until they could provide me with a reason they did not sit in their assigned seats."

The pilot said the airlines are not "secretly prejudiced against any nationality, religion or culture," and that the only target of profiling is passenger behavior.

"There are certain behaviors that raise the bar, and not sitting in your assigned seat raises the bar substantially," the pilot said. "Especially since we know that this behavior has been evident in suspicious probes in the past."

"Someone at US Airways made a notably good decision," said a second pilot, who also does not work for US Airways.

A spokeswoman for US Airways declined to discuss the incident. Aviation security officials said thousands of Muslims fly every day and conduct prayers in airports in a quiet and private manner without creating incidents.

====end of article==

It is preposterous that our one party media even pretends their removal and questioning is even controversial.

We are at war.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/more-details-emerge-about-the-six-flying-imams

-- November 28, 2006 3:59 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

'Today' Tips Its Hand: 'Civil War' Label Key To Encouraging Cut-and-Run From Iraq
Posted by Mark Finkelstein on November 28, 2006 - 08:04.

Yesterday, with considerable ruffles and flourishes, 'Today' announced, as noted here, that NBC News would henceforth be referring to the situation in Iraq as a "civil war." Those curious as to why NBC would devote so much attention to what amounts to little more than an argument over semantics got their answer this morning. By shaping the language, NBC apparently seeks also to shape US policy.

In a segment narrated by NBC foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell, we heard first from presidential historian Michael Beschloss, who declared:

"The Bush administration has a huge incentive to keep people from calling this a civil war. They know once this war is branded that way, Americans will essentially say that's not what we do, let's get out."

In introducing the succeeding clip, of retired Army Colonel Jack Jacobs, Mitchell claimed that "military experts also say if it is a civil war, US options are limited." Jacobs obligingly opined:

"Backing one side or the other is a recipe for disaster. Our objective ought to be to train essential government forces with police and military, and extract ourselves."

View video of Beschloss and Jacobs here.

The NBC game-plan becomes clear. As per Beschloss, make sure the conflict is "branded" a civil war. In so doing, ensure that US options are "limited" to the one suggested by Jacobs - "extract ourselves."

In sum, it appears that NBC News' trumpeted decision to label the situation in Iraq a "civil war" was no mere exercise in semantics. It reflects NBC's calculated attempt to influence public opinion and US policy on the most serious national security issue of the day. Such is the role that the MSM has arrogated to itself.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9298

-- November 28, 2006 4:23 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Okie and turtle.

Roger.. that was what Carl calls "baiting"?

As for Iraq..

Lawmakers' faith in Iraq's leaders wanes

By BEN FELLER, Associated Press Writer Nov 27 2006

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is stepping up diplomatic efforts to stabilize Iraq, even as key congressional figures say their confidence in Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government is waning.

As the U.S. involvement in Iraq surpassed the length of America's participation in World War II, lawmakers have dwindling confidence in the U.S.-supported Iraqi government.

Iraq's leaders promised Sunday to track down those responsible for the recent attacks, and al-Maliki urged his national unity government of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds to curb the violence by stopping their public disputes.

The Iraqi prime minister is under pressure from Shiite politicians loyal to the radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr who have threatened to boycott parliament and the Cabinet if al-Maliki meets with Bush.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq

Here the US shows signs of waning support for Maliki's government.

To me, this means that there may be a new government installed instead of Maliki until the Iraqis become mature enough to find a way to get along. It seems very obvious that the Iraqi government hasn't the maturity at this time to do what has to be done politically across political lines, so the "national salvation government" plan spoken of by Allawi looks the most likely way this is going to go. Remember this post:

Allawi shapes up as Iraq's iron man
Hala Jaber Nov 19 2006

A FORMER Iraqi prime minister who is tipped to return as a “strongman” leader if Baghdad’s faltering government falls has challenged the American-led coalition’s objective of creating a western-style democracy even though the country is in turmoil.

Iraq’s parliament might now be forced to override the results of last January’s elections and appoint a new administration of technocrats with free rein to confront the militias head on if necessary.

One idea circulating in Washington is to let a “strongman” impose order, allowing US forces to hand over responsibility for security to the Iraqis and begin a staged withdrawal. George W Bush recently had to reassure Maliki that he was not seeking to unseat him, but he has gone on to define success in Iraq as “a government that can defend, govern and sustain itself”, toning down his prodemocracy rhetoric.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126399

Any thoughts on this?

Sara.

-- November 28, 2006 4:55 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Why this could be good for Iraq and for us

It is my impression that if the democratic elective process is unable to create the stability needed in Iraq through the bipartisan (or multiparty) political process.. that the strongman tactic will be called in to replace the elected Maliki government, deal with the militias and bring back stability. This new governmental structure under a strongman would be similar to the way the government worked last time under Allawi when the US first went into Iraq. It would function under another authority than the elected people - something akin to the Coalition Provisional Authority as it was under Allawi. If this is so, then the US would have a LOT more say than they do now in the policy directions of the Iraqi government. I am hopeful that the US government will not delegate that greater authority they have under that structure to anyone else for quite a while... until the Iraqi people prove themselves capable of self-government and unity as one country (the US may have to babysit a while - and until "son" has proven he can drive, he shouldn't be given the keys to the car - or nation - again). Nation building for a people so "green" (newbie) has proven to be a very difficult process. Not impossible, by any means.. but harder than we first thought.

I have observed that there is one purpose on the US governmental side and another cross-purposes to the US view from the Iraqi government side. This has caused so much friction that many things are not getting done as they need to be. It is my hope that if the strongman tactic is deemed the best one and implemented, that having ONE WILL instead of two wills about how to deal with the militias.. and the economic policies of Iraq (such as our concern - the valuation of the Dinar) will cause a greater force moving forward instead of the bickering and inertia (lack of movement) on these crucial issues. :)

As Carole noted:

Every time I turn on TV (MSN as well as my FOX channels) every one is saying the same thing: Empowering the average Iraqi with a sound economy will be the turning around of the insurgency problem. It will be harder to recruit those who otherwise, out of necessity, join the militias.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126504

Sara.

-- November 28, 2006 6:21 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Too often are we so preoccupied with the destination, we forget the journey. ~ Unknown

===

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it, always.

===

"Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another." - Walter Elliott

===

A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.

===

Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.

===

Science can predict an eclipse of the sun many years in advance, but cannot accurately predict the weather over the weekend.

===

You have given your life to be the person you are right now. Was it worth it? ~ Richard Bach

===

Count your blessings instead of your crosses; Count your gains instead of your losses. Count your joys instead of your woes; Count your friends instead of your foes. Count your smiles instead of your tears; Count your courage instead of your fears. Count your full years instead of your lean; Count your kind deeds instead of your mean. Count your health instead of your wealth; Count on God instead of yourself.

===

-- November 28, 2006 9:34 PM ∞

---

hopefull$$ wrote:

well peoples i think we need to lock it up and come back and knock the dust off in a few. fighting an uphill battle that will eventually be won. cash in at the right time, right place. Who's up for a party in 2020?

-- November 28, 2006 10:09 PM ∞

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hopefull$$ wrote:

I have and idea. why doesn't someone get off their rear and advertise the IQD? simple economics says by increasing the demand for something the price of it rises. when more people want something that there is not that much of it cost more to get it. EASY AEH, SO IRAQ quit making money and advertise the hell out of it.

-- November 28, 2006 10:29 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Fellas:

Since most of you seem amicable to hearing an opposing view, I will continue to post regularly when I can take issue with something.

I may not know too much about what is going on in Iraq but I am well versed in what the American people think is going on and the majority think we should have never gone there and should get out ASAP. We cannot continue to go against the will of the people regardless of how noble our purpose is. The definition of victory eludes me-I do not know what would constitute victory.

Those people have their way of life and we have ours and even though we think our's is great, if they don't want it, we can't cram it down their throats.

We went in originally to get WMD's, not to build a Country in the likeness of ours.

Those people aren't ready for freedom. We need to have a military dictatorship until things are calmed down and people are acting responsibily and then start allowing freedoms as they earn them. I do not know what you people are seeing on TV but I am seeing absolute chaos and you cannot apply normal American standards to that situation.

Turtle: You were wrong about Carl-he stays clean. It was Roger that has that "Whang" about him and frequents those trailor parks. Those Brits have always had that problem.
(Roger-just jest, I know you are from Cincinatti).

-- November 28, 2006 11:27 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

The reflections you posted in one of the postings above, was a beautiful piece. I'm thinking especially of your quote "Too often we are preoccupied with the destination, we forget the journey".

The journey is where we are right now, that is the present time. The destination is the value of the Dinar, the cash out, the goal, and our presumed future happiness. You're right, sometimes it's hard to be here, sometimes my dreams are already in a cash out mode, but I'm not there, that's the reality. Thanks, need a reminder, and reality check on occasion.

Hopeful$$

No need to advertise the Dinar, it is selling itself right now, as long as a currency is going up in value, and especially when it is a planned value increase ( takes away the market swings) investors will flock to the currency. The value increase will be about one third of the value each half year, if they continue on this trend.

What other investment will yield a one third of it's own value each half year. ???

No need to try to sell it. It's going hot right now, and is even hard to get hold of.

Just hold on to your handles, and enjoy the ride.

Okie,

Seems like your analysis at the time was a sound one. You did what was right at the time, hanged in there during the waiting ( presume Jim B helped) ;) , and now the train is rolling. All aboaaaaard.

-- November 28, 2006 11:38 PM ∞

---

Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All-

Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving! I have been monitoring the site and I have seen that the dinar value continues to raise in value. This will be good news to the iraqi citizen.

Neil-

Cincinnati is not where Roger is from. We have had that discussion previously on this site.

Nothing else to report. I have seen the prediction of IQD being 1000 to USD 1. However, so far, no one seems to be able to cite the source of this prediction.

Articles I have seen state the Iraqi government goal is to... However, no citation of who in the Iraq Government is going to do this.

Hopefully, as we scan, we will come across a solid source and not someone's opinion.

Laura

-- November 28, 2006 11:42 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Neil,

Cm-on. that's a piece of BS I'm not from Cincinnati, I'm laughing here, no, I used it in a joke once, and it took off like a computer virus. As for all my friends, well they all live on dirt roads, and heart to heart Neil, I have a confession to you, but you must agree to come to the Jerry Springer Show where I will reveal it on stage..... :o

As the girl that was bleeding from her nose said..."from one thing to another."

The Iraqi situation with regards to the safety is not too fun of a thing to look at. It's pretty obvious that if another force other than the government is controlling the streets, the government is not in charge.

A couple of months ago, there was even talk about a coup.

The cake was not fully baked before it was taken out of the oven, and I can agree with anyone coming up with the argument that we handed over the reins far far too early. It's easy to say now, but at the time, it was comparable calm, there was a certain Gung Ho, within the ranks of the Iraqis, but now, they're not there.

Few can say that the current regime is strong, but what alternatives are there.

Coup, I think it's too late for that, it looked like there was a window of opportunity for that, a few months ago, but around that time, the US administration choose'd to do a very heavy diplomatic offensive, basically saying, that we want to see results, more or less yesterday.

Whatever came out of that, is unknown, but one thing have happened. The very biggest opponent and the biggest militia leader is right now on a straight collision course with the current Government in Iraq.

Malaki will meet Bush in a day or so, just by the fact that Malaki will do that, will in Sad'rs eyes be a breaking point.

Malaki and Bush is very aware of this, no doubt.

What I want to see is, what the latest move will pay out. The true enemy, Iran, is personified in Sad'r , and it's heading to this particular confrontation right now.

Will there be an uprising of magnitude of Sad'r , then there will be a battle in one way or the other, between the US or /and Iraqi forces, and Sad'rs militia.

I'm confident that militarily that is a good solution, because the US forces, (and perhaps with some help from the Iraqi army, depending on what day it is, I guess) is far superior to the militia.

If the militia will show itself and come out to the battle field, that, even though it will be blood and pain, will be a better position than that the militia that is not dealt with, and they are doing daily raids, murder and an endless ongoing civil battle. It will give a chance to get to that militia on military terms, that, the militia possibly can't win.

Sad'r have an ego bigger than his balls, and will most probably declare irrational decisions to his followers.

IF this Sad'r is not dealt with, and that is something that is up and coming right now, THEN, I'm prepared to go with the coup, strong man, junta or whatever, because then it doesn't matter, if all this is on the plate, and Malaki will do nothing, despite endless help, diplomatic pressure, more help, and more daily expenses in US blood, then it's to the point where no one cares, just take a broom and clean out the house.

I have considered him (Malaki) pretty worthless for a long time, but as the US administration are supporting him, that's what will happen whether I like it or not.

In all the despair, I see hope, as can be seen, the Dinar is on the way up, this will change things if it is brought up high enough to make a significant impact. All the other programs seem to be going on course, so all in all, let them go.

I would say, let this latest polarization of forces play out.

-- November 29, 2006 12:27 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi Laura,

Welcome back from your Turkey indigestion session, hope you had a great time.

You're right, it is a rumor, however I must say that the source is pretty good.

It's not the official CBI declaration, so it cant be confirmed as official. However, the guy that it came from is an economic expert, and have written some really good articles in the past, that have been pretty spot on. One in particular that I'm thinking of, is his criticism of the "zero loop" idea.

Exactly what connections he has, is hard to tell from over here, but I'm sure he didn't just picked that number out of a hat either.

As usually, we have to wait and see.

-- November 29, 2006 12:36 AM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Yep, I meant Roger and said Carl. It's the whole 4 letters vs 5 letters thing that, I guess, just made Carl easier to spell.

Roger: I'm not sure what the outcome will be with Maliki. There is talk that Sadr may not be the man in charge of his people. He was created by them, not the other way around after all. 3 years ago, he was a nobody walking in Daddy's shoes. Anyway, I wish I could say I had the inside scoop on thta one but right now I'm not sure if we know. The talk of pulling out could all be posturing. What I can tell you is that there is no love fo Sadr among our troops and Sadr may have done us a favor by forcing Maliki to Publicly pick a side. For Sadr to turn on Maliki would mean that our guys may have fewer areas on the not allowed to go list. That could open some doors to some nasty battles but allow us to crush one of the big problems we have. I guess we'll find out more in a few days.

-- November 29, 2006 2:01 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Turtle,

Yes, that's pretty much the perception here as well. The ball is in Sad'rs court. If he moves, he must move for a confrontation. If he doesnt move, Malaki must move for a confrontation.

If Sad'r doesn't move, and Malaki doesn't move, Malakis ass is grass.

We will find out.

Pass the popcorn.

-- November 29, 2006 2:18 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Lets See...

Sadr hates the American government

Sadr has direct contact with Iran diplomatically

Sadr's militia is being funded by Iran

Sadr's militia is being trained by hezbollah who is turn is funded by Iran

Sadr's militia operates freely among the police force

Sadr's militia is now gaining strength in the Iraqi military

Sadr has been unmining the new Iraqi Government with immunity since it begin forming

Sadr has over a period of time become stronger because the coalition forces listened to the Iraqi leaders and kept their hand off of Sadr...thus we allowed a small tumor to become one that carries a death sentence to the new Iraqi Government

Sadr feels he has enough power to make the confrontation between he and malaki public

Sadr does not operate without consultation with Iran because of their support...and takes guidance from them

Sadr has been given the go ahead by Iran, to test the will of the people...will they choose the existing government or Sadr

Sadr feels he has more control within the interior ministry and Iraqi people than malaki.... Iran does also or they would not have directed him to test the issue

Sadr is more respected and his forces looked too for protection, more than the Iraqi police force or military.

Sadr has now threaten to topple the present Iraqi government because he controls 30 seats in parliament and 8 in the cabinet...when pulled...this will be same as a no confidence vote...and topple the position of malaki...thus you have a vacuum...or another reorganization...then another individual is selected to replace malaki...considering the Iraqi people are always CYAAAAAAAAAAAn...they will go along with who ever they think has the strongest and most power...to go against the stream even thou they disagree would be sucide....thus Sadr ie Iran gets total control...
You just been handed your COUP...

Now!.....the stage has been set for the prize...Iran is baiting Israel....wanting Israel to attack...if they take the bait...The new Iraqi leader(put in place by Iran) will join the Iranian forces as a show of solidarity with the Shiite people....thus the Military and Police force will join in attacks on the coalition forces...along with the Iranian forces moving in to attack the Coalition bases in Iraq.

It will be like a small group of U.S. Calvary surrounded by Apaches at Custer,Wy.....The only way to save those forces will be to move them enmass out of the Country before Israel attacks....to do otherwise will give them the same category and survival rate of the Rapid Deployment Force that I was once in, when attached to the 82nd Airborne...(not expected to win...just buy time...casualty rate within 10 days...100%...Japan had another name that started with a K..)

Thus the plan is complete and Iran now has full control of the Iraqi oil fields...and they used the American's money, American lives, and ego to achieve what they could not do with an Iran/Iraqi 8 year war......remove Saddam...and expand their persian empire

The major problem we have in Iran, is the will of the people...their individual will for freedom, does not appear to be as strong as their devotion to their Cleric, Tribe or Islamic Faith....thus they are exploited and controlled by that common weakness...just as people are all over the world under the same banner...different name..

Democracy in the middle east ain't it wonderful...If President George Bush was guilty of anything...he had the though people all over the world wanted to live free, without fear of reprisal, fear of a dictatorship, to be like us...after all don't most want to come to America and live the American dream...he wanted to give them that opportunity...Now! a fresh slap of reality has struck his face ....maybe there is a real difinative reason true democracy has never existed in the middle east...just maybe its their "Culture Stupid!"

-- November 29, 2006 7:13 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Wed Exchange rate

Announcement No.(815)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 815 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Wednesday 2006 / 11/ 29so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 4 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1435 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1433 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 1.330.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 2.000.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 1.330.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 2.000.000

-- November 29, 2006 8:02 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

IRAN TODAY...
In order for there to be peace in Iraq....the US needs to get out...
We will support and back a "popular government" in Iraq...

Do we hear the echo's within the Canyon of words spoken by Iran two years back...

'WE WILL NEVER ALLOW A DEMOCRACY TO EXIST IN IRAQ...IRAG..IRAq..IRaq...Irag...iraq...ira...g.....g....g...g"

-- November 29, 2006 8:06 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

I feel like we have been watching...

THE KEYSYONE COPS when it comes to the blunders and missteps of our adminstration in Iraq...it is as if they totally ignored everything Iran said.... they listened...waited...listened...waited...listened...waited...did it ever occur to them...that time stolen by false and worthless deplomacy is just another tool used in a game of upmanship...to get into a better position...Iran understood...our head is still stinking from where we had it... now we realize everything has been allowed to fallow to long in the field...now the crop is soggy...molded...and damaged...can they save most of it....?????
7500 corruption cases.....50 prosecuted....?????

Need I say more....not being pessimistic...just observing the facts......

Remember about 4 months ago...I told you the fireworks would start in the Spring of 2007....I still believe that...

Six Flag rides ain't nothing....compared to what is coming...

-- November 29, 2006 8:22 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I’m a travelin’ man by choice and deal on the square with folks I encounter in life. By profession I’ve traveled the world for years in my business and enjoyed every minute of it. After being in a foreign country for awhile it always makes me feel good to return to the USA. We truly are the “land of the free and home of the brave”. Freedom truly is our greatest asset….if you don’t believe me, go live and work in foreign countries for awhile.

It really does get under my skin when the MSM continues to spread hate and discontent every chance they get. If you thought it was bad leading up to the mid-term elections…just wait until they ramp up for the next two years in their bid for the White House. A lot of people have died to give them the freedom of speech and all they do is abuse it. Hopefully mother nature will take care of them with the age old law of “what goes around….comes around”. It truly is close to treason when they distort the truth about our troops and Government actions in Iraq.

My Grandmother always told me that nothing was as good or as bad the second time you looked at it as it was the first time. That’s a very powerful lesson and one that has served me well for a lot of years. However, there are exceptions to this rule and the MSM is one of them. They just keep getting worse and worse as they progress down their path. It may take the FCC knocking their heads together to solve the problem. I’ve sent e-mails to my Government representatives about this problem and I suggest you do the same.

-- November 29, 2006 9:44 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie:
That deserves a AMEN!

-- November 29, 2006 9:53 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl, Carl, Carl......

Never, in this lifetime did I ever think that you and I would have such compatible thoughts!!

You speak my present state of mind and you do it with such clarity.

We jumped on the band wagon with Pres. Bush, because as Americans we walk around feeling so
" guilty" about our freedoms and prosperities, that it is easy to want what we have for others.

Bush keeps saying that 12 million voted for a democracy in Iraq! I now believe that what you have stated covers that. Every human being wants democracy and the ability to control the diestiny of their lives and take care of their families. BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE!!

As Americans we have always been willing ( more than less) to sacrifice our families and friends, our finances, our future for democracy and to protect our way of life. And overall we collectively have upheld the faith of our forefathers, at least with respect toward our
Creator( expressed in many different religious views). That faith has been based on perserving human diginity and upholding the basic laws of GOd for the good of mankind.

Not true in other parts of the world. So they , as we, reap what they sow.

I so very much agree with your proposal that we bring our troops home and when they get their act together, we will support their government, if established for liberty and respect for their country, by helping them to protect what they have been willing to sacrifice for.

They have repeatedly undermined our efforts to give them their chance!! They have slapped us silly over it!! Enough!!!

I think that Israel will probably take the bait, as they did in Lebanon. Within their own govt. structure they are divided and reak with corruption.

But that is that part of the world and we are this part of the world. Along with Europe, parts of Latin American, and parts of Asia, we should be able to stand by and if, THEY choose allow them to self destruct, with minimal effect on our continent.

If we strenthen our borders and put our diplomatic efforts to strengthen our relationships with our true allies, I believe this can be accomplished.

Our country is so divided over this war. And in the process, the liberals are causing irrepairable damage internally to our own society. Let us start to deal firmly and harshly with those who live here, enjoy the same freedoms, etc... but who are rooting for our demise. Get them dealt with and silenced!!

You are so right, in time, they will decipate. I think of Jimy Carter, the worst president in our history...he is gone now and we have recovered, we can do it again, and again and again....

But we must fix what has gone awry internally within our own land.

-- November 29, 2006 10:18 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

I don't know exactly why, but I thought you were a woman! Thanks for the info and the clarification.

ANd by the way congrats! on raising such a wonderful and successful daugther. Aren't they wonderful?? At least when they are not PMS ing :)

Your grandmother sounds like she was a very wise woman and obviously had a lifetime impact on your life.

I had a very wise one too!! Her legacy of wisdom was mandated by many adatages such as...I complained about having no shoes until I met the person who had no feet....

It has stuck with me for years and years, and has turned my thinking around many many times.

She was also more concerned about the condition of my underwear, than the condition of my bones, if I was ever in an accident!!

Thanks for your posting!!

-- November 29, 2006 10:29 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

All:

New York Times, Nov. 13, 2006

INFLUENCE RISES BUT BASE FRAYS OFR IRAQI CLERIC....from crossed legs on the floor to royal couches..

Moktada al-Sadr is said to be losing control fo his feared Mahdi Army as he moves from angry outsider to member of the Iraqi establishment. Many members of his militia have broken away from confines of compromise that bind him, and taken a more active role in street killings and infiltration of the security forces.

Sadr says he is trying to weed them out-publically dismissing 40 of them last month. HIs new prominence in plolitics is partly the results of intens American and Iraqi efforts in 2004 to persuade him to enter politics and get his Mahdi Army to disarm. Now parites loyal to him control ths single largest portion of seats in the parliament and elevated the Prime Minister to power. He has recently made trips abroad and most significantly been visiting the son of Grand Ayatollah Ali as-Sistani, apparently learning the arts of negotiation and compromise. But Sadr's call for calm is not satisfying to many who are deeply angry at the sectarian killings by the Sunni militias....

This article is 3 weeks old, what his stance will be now is anybodies guess....but ultimately if he does not heed to the demands of his own militia, they will bring forth a new leader who will...

-- November 29, 2006 10:43 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Sadr:
Has made the first chess move...suspended his influence within the New Iraqi Government...

The clock is ticking...now it is Malaki's move....the trick is.... no one knows how much time frame is allowed for malaki's move...before Sadr moves again....

tick....Tick.....TIck....TICk....TICK....TICK....???

Watch for alliances to start forming within the Parliament, Cabinet, Ministries, Police Force, and Military Generals...Politicians,Chiefs and Generals leaving positions is the start of the Civil War Shuffle...

Small wholesale take overs of providences will be the next move..

An Bar Providence and others like it will be first...

Coalition forces will have to withdraw from those regions as re-enforcements and logistics will be too difficult to support smaller units,when the dry powder turns to fire and smoke...

-- November 29, 2006 11:15 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Carl: Does it make you wonder in the least that Sadr chose this time to manufacture this break from the government? His malitia is strong but he knows they are not strong enough to win a direct conflict with US forces. I am thinking that, as you stated, either Iran is about to make its move or Sadr was trying to prove he was the man and got caught in his own trap. So Sadr announces he is boycotting and the US counters by saying they are sending another 10,000-40,000 soldiers to secure Baghdad.

Pass that popcorn and make sure it has butter. I like lots of butter and I think this is about to get interesting.

Soon to theatres: "Fat Boy Gets his"

*No inside info here, just a prediction.

-- November 29, 2006 1:59 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Turtle:
I agree with ya...on things about to get real interesting....either FATBOY is going to be in the catbird seat or he is toast...either way he is in for a change in environment...

I believe he is being given instructions by Iran...to increase the heat to see who runs from the kitchen...I believe this an Iranian test to observe the reaction of the US and Coalition forces and our leaders here...It is also a test to see just how many iraqi's follow Sadr and the degree of influence he has within the police and military forces.

Iran will make decisions from that observation....if the coalition forces remove Sadr, or make him run for the hills, Iran has their answer...if the Iraqi government refuses to allow Sadr to be removed they have another answer...vascillation seems to be contagious within the Iraqi Government.
Iran is about ready to make their move on Iraq....they just need Israel to tip the balance....if the Arab Leaque steps in...the game goes into another overtime period...Then the igniter to go to War under the Islamic Banner, and cataylst for the glue that unites the Islamic Countries with Iran has been losted...

Iran will do their best to keep this from happening....

-- November 29, 2006 2:35 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Sadr Terrorists Suspend Participation In Maliki Government

From those lovers of representative government at the DNC’s Associated Press:

36 al-Sadr loyalists boycott Iraq gov’t

By THOMAS WAGNER and SAMEER N. YACOUB

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki arrived in Jordan for meetings Wednesday and Thursday with President Bush aimed at halting escalating sectarian violence and paving the way for a reduction of U.S. troops. Lawmakers and Cabinet ministers loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr promptly suspended participation in parliament and the government to protest the meeting.

The political bloc is a mainstay of support for al-Maliki.

A statement issued by the 30 lawmakers and six Cabinet ministers said their boycott was necessary because the meeting constituted a "provocation to the feelings of the Iraqi people and a violation of their constitutional rights." The statement did not explain that claim.

In New York on Tuesday, U.N. Security Council voted unanimously to extend for one year the mandate of the 160,000-strong multinational force in Iraq. The Security Council responded to a request from al-Maliki, who said a top government priority is to assume full responsibility for security and stability throughout Iraq but that it needs more time.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/sadr-terrorists-suspend-participation-in-maliki-government

http://www.wkrn.com/nashville/news/ap-36-alsadr-loyalists-boycott-iraq-govt/62439.htm

-- November 29, 2006 3:12 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Yeah, saw it first thing on the tele, Sad'rs men walked out of the Iraqi Gov.

It's started.

Things are polarizing, the key forces are heading for a conflict.

Will this be like an ancient Chinese battle, where they are parading , waiving flag, screaming insults, drumming drums, and blowing horns, maneuvering for positions, endless negotiations about small unimportant things, until late afternoon until they finally clash, or will this be a straight for the throat?

Malaki, know better than ignore the meeting with Bush. He must go, he need the US force, and power, much more than he need Sad'rs force, and the power he represents.

Two completely opposite powers can not rule one land. One have to go, Lincoln said it best, "a divided house will not stand".

How Sad'r will go, I don't know, there might come a few scenarios.

Sad'r will just plainly issue some holy fatwa of some sort, and just start. This will bring his militia out, and can be confronted militarily.

Sad'r will not start, leaving the Iraqi Gov, and Malaki as the "aggressor", but it will still be the same result, a military conflict.

Sad'r and Malaki doesn't move, this will be only a postponement, right now, a very critical of the Iraqi government report (of course there have been leaks already, and most probably with the blessing of our powers, there will be no surprises when they report their findings), is to be released.

If a "Phony War" is developing, then, will the US administration accept the status quo. NO.

This will for Sad'r only be a postponement, but for Malaki, this will most probably be the end of his political career in Iraq. Changes in the Iraqi gov will be orchestrated in one way or the other.

This might be coup, strong man, junta, or just plainly that the US will take over the Iraqi administration again, whatever form this will be, is of less importance for Sad'r, because what ever force is coming in, it WILL take on Sad'r.

In all possible scenarios, Sad'r will get the short stick.

The conflict, will be on favorable terms for our military forces, and the militia will be the weaker force, so an influx of "freedom fighters" from Iran, Hezbollah, Syria or other parts of the world might be flooding the area, in support of Sad'rs militia.

If there is groups of men coming in the dark, the conflict might be contained, if the support is open and obvious, like troops, tanks, and operations, Iran or Syria might get drawn in.

As I'm sitting and writing this, I can hear from my tele, about the report, where an option to change powers in Iraq is an option (Malaki have the noose around his neck now), and the next segment of the news, was about three brigades of our forces going to Baghdad.

This, Ladies and Gentlemen, will be very very interesting indeed.

-- November 29, 2006 3:43 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

If I may theorize a little bit about Sad'r. Sad'r was , as Turtle said, created by his people, and is a legacy of his father. Sad'r is a puppet more than he might believe, and I predict that when the ground burns around him, he will not stand with his troops, but flee...to Iran...of course.

He will probably try to flee, he might be caught or killed, but if he can, he will flee.

-- November 29, 2006 4:02 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

All,
At this point in time I would be sorely disappointed in America if we didn't have enough intellegence on Sadr and his army to issue quik and decisive mortal wounds when the time comes, and I hope it comes.

-- November 29, 2006 5:02 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Neil;

Your cry for "peace peace" when there is no peace (Jer 6:14) is reminicent of today's letter to the American people by the President of Iran. I will take issue with it here as it related to his letter and advances many of the same themes.
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/ahmadinejads-latest-letter-to-the-us-telling-us-to-submit

In Ahmadinejad's letter, he speaks just as you do when you posted today that, "the majority think we should have never gone there and should get out ASAP." But I should first note that the majority voted the other way last election and they can be swayed again. "The majority" was right one time, wrong the other time.. which one was which? All it proves is that they are wrong half the time.. the majority don't always think or vote for the right thing. The right view never changed.. the people's view did.

Historically, the majority is not always right.. remember that a majority of the German people voted Hitler into power? There may be strength in numbers, but the right prevails in the end whether the majority or minority holds to the truth. (Note the cost in lives when the majority was wrong, however, which stretched into the millions in WW2.) Today we stand free.. but every year we set aside a day to remember that our freedom was paid for in blood. Must it be so again? To what degree may lie in our own hands.

The right opinion will not be changed, even if the majority is deceived. There will just be a terrible, terrible future cost.. such as the German people had to pay after electing Hitler to power. The true, right and objective truth will not be overthrown. It can be denied, but to our own peril. Believing that you must always follow the majority and NOT what is right makes you popular, I agree.. but is popularity really the correct aim in politics or in life?

Here is the view of the dictator of Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad (who agrees with you - does that make you in good company?), he wrote (my brackets):

- "Let’s take a look at Iraq . Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq , hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially."

(Who caused this exponential growth in terrorism? Could the speaker of this, Mr. Ahmadinejad, have been instrumental in encouraging the buildup of these very terrorist forces he here decries as a "bad" thing? Remember we can prove that the IEDs are from Iran which kill Iraqis and our troops... and read Carl's posts today about "freedom loving, anti-terrorist" Iran. How credible is it to advocate exponential growth of terrorism, then say here that it is bad? How much credibility do we give to him?)

- "With the presence of the US military in Iraq , nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty."

(That is because they were too busy fighting the forces Mr. Ahmadinejad motivated, equipped and sent into Iraq.)

- "The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq , but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception."

(See the posts by turtle, including the recent one addressed to you Neil - which said, "Any country in the world, regardless of how close they seem to you, where extremists are allowed to rule create a threat to US life and prosperity. The question is where to draw the lines on what is enough of a threat to justify doing what we did in Iraq. I have posted my feelings before on why I personally feel Saddam was enough of a threat.."

Also see the posts concerning Saddam's general who is an acknowledged credible witness and he says they did have WMD which he personally removed at Saddam's request and flew into Syria - as well as the recent posts in the MSM admitting that there was a threat, which was posted here: http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#125992

QUOTE: EXPERTS SAY THAT AT THE TIME, MR. HUSSEIN'S SCIENTISTS WERE ON THE VERGE OF BUILDING AN ATOM BOMB, AS LITTLE AS A YEAR AWAY.

What about, "detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research" which "the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb" and include papers that "give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs." And "contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums."

AND THE US WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT AN ATOMIC IRAQ OR THE THREAT IT POSED?)

- "Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated."

(WHO does this aggravation? Not the US troops who are too busy fighting Mr. Ahmadinejad's fighters to get much infrastructure and allieviation of poverty done.. NO.. it is aggravated by the Iranian fighters and funding and support of terrorist sympathizers in and heading to Iraq. Mr. Ahmadinejad is hardly qualified to give solutions when he is a large part of the problem.)

- "In Iraq , about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government. Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq."

(I suppose all wars should not be engaged in - including the recent one against the person Ahmadinejad most emulates and imitates in his anti-Semitic views - Hitler, who also called for the destruction of the Israelites as Mr. Ahmadinejad has with his statement that Israel should be "wiped off the face of the earth". Here Mr. Ahmadinejad says this war should not be engaged in because we delicate ladies are so weepy and need to hug our sons and daughters. As turtle wrote, "where extremists are allowed to rule it creates a threat to US life and prosperity" - we fight because going home won't make that threat go away for us or our sons and daughters, no matter how weepy and teary-eyed and huggy we may be.

As for a tarnished image, it is tarnished only to those who are sympathizers of terrorism's cause - and do we really want those with innocent blood on their hands considered our friends? Luk 6:26 "Woe to you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." comes to mind. Seeking peace with evil people, wanting all men to speak well of us - even the wicked, the murderous and the evil, is not wise. We can only choose one side in a conflict - which side do you wish to appease.. the good or the evil? And if you don't know which is which, go live in Iran for a few years to contrast the two. Or ask a few who have escaped that regime why they are living here, not there. Or talk to a person whose loved one was blown to bits by an Iranian manufactured IED, etc, etc.)

- "I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure."

(When you consider the alternative - "where extremists are allowed to rule it creates a threat to US life and prosperity" - the benefits offset the costs. What do you think the extremists like Mr. Ahmadinejad here will do with all their newfound wealth? Build a peaceful capitalist democratic society? Look what Saddam was doing.. one year away from a nuke.. how much closer is Mr. Ahmadinejad? And what will Mr. Ahmadinejad do with his nukes? Any thoughts on that one?)

- "Undoubtedly, the American people are not satisfied with this behavior and they showed their discontent in the recent elections."

(As they did in the previous ones to that where Bush got in by a landslide - I don't think Mr. Ahmadinejad should read too much into his present friends seizing power.)

- "I hope that in the wake of the mid-term elections, the administration of President Bush will have heard and will heed the message of the American people."

(I wish the US citizenry had truly thought through the issues and took them seriously - but they trusted the MSM was giving them unbiased truth to base their decisions upon in their ten minute newsbyte every evening.. and that watchdog fell asleep, even going so far as to air terrorist snuf movies. All US citizens are, however, accountable to God for all their decisions/actions or lack thereof. Voting or not voting are equally judged by God in heaven. ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.’ Here Mr. Ahmadinejad's words mirror Neil's words of, "We cannot continue to go against the will of the people regardless of how noble our purpose is." If the leftist and terrorist sympathizing MSM and TV programming didn't fill their thoughts every nite, the will of the people might be very different. (Don't you find it remarkable how much of what Mr. Ahmadinejad wrote is exactly the message of the media? Uncanny, isn't it? And how he applauds the good choice of the American people.. you have to wonder when your enemies praise your actions if it isn't in THEIR best interests and not in yours, no?) It remains to be seen if the internet will change the way the populace gets their news, and the view of the "will of the people". Nothing can be taken for granted...

As for your words, Neil of " The definition of victory eludes me-I do not know what would constitute victory.", the definition of victory is winning and not letting extremists rule and create a threat to the US.. our lives, property, prosperity and freedom. That means NOT letting them get their dirty and bloodstained hands on Iraq's oil wealth so they can set up their little terrorist empires and set nukes off on US soil, against Israel or Europe/"The Christian West". This definition of victory cannot be compromised even if the majority of Americans remain hoodwinked by Mr. Ahmadinejad and the MSM's vision of paradise and peace on earth which CANNOT happen in this life at this time. Dreams of peace are not about to happen, in spite of the pie-in-the-sky words asserted by Mr. Ahmadinejad in his summary, below.)

"To sum up:"

- "It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice."

(Really? How about Mr. Ahmadinejad leading the way by letting his own people in Iran run for office and vote freely whom they wish to be in power without coersion, force or threats? What he IS speaks so loudly that his words are of little effect. Anyone want to go live under the government of Iran, free from coercion, force and injustice? And he thinks we should apply those words to the USA?)

- "It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion."

(Appealing to common human values won't make the world all lay down their arms and beat their swords into ploughshares. Does Mr. Ahmadinejad really think we are that deceived that we would follow anyone merely professing the values we hold without examining the messenger? Well, I suppose some Americans are, or they wouldn't have voted the Democrat peaceniks into power.. but you cannot tell if they will remain so deceived. Also, serving those values purely is not truly within a man like Mr. Ahmadinejad. If he was those things, and his life spoke of it, we might listen to him - but the blood of the dead Iraqi girl in the arms of the US soldier which still fills my mind reminds me of what a farce his words about compassion and common human values really are... not to mention the attacks on the UK, his denying the holocaust and calling for the destruction of Israel, dead Iraqi and coalition soldiers, contractors and foreign dignitaries, and a multitude of other things which, if you got him to admit what he REALLY thinks, he would admit that he endorses - not that the media would ever put him on such a hotseat and truly examine where he stands and what he believes on such issues, for his message is their own.)

- "It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war."

(Really? How about the IRANIAN government? Why doesn't Mr. Ahmadinejad drop his threats and tension against those who oppose his government? And, by the way, how well provided with prosperity are his people? Is their welfare a model we all ought to be looking at? Want to be provided for by the welfare of the Iranian state.. without tension or threats?)

- "It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets."

(If Mr. Ahmadinejad is the shining example of aspired perfection in government.. I think we can pass. If what he holds out as "unity" is exemplified in Mr. Ahmadinejad's government, I don't think that example cuts it. We may not like the politics of the opposing party here, but we don't assassinate them when we disagree with them as Mr. Ahmadinejad documentably does. Here he speaks of morality, saying "We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent." but his worldview is that all infidels must die, hence, "innocents" are not those we see daily being shot, tortured, kidnapped, raped, bombed and their blood spilled. We must critically admit the fact that his view of what is an "innocent" target and our view of what an "innocent" target is are diametrically opposed.)

- "We should all heed the Divine Word of the Holy Qur’an:

“ But those who repent, have faith and do good may receive Salvation. Your Lord, alone, creates and chooses as He will, and others have no part in His choice; Glorified is God and Exalted above any partners they ascribe to Him. ” (28:67-68)

I pray to the Almighty to bless the Iranian and American nations and indeed all nations of the world with dignity and success."

(Such a pious prayer by Mr. Ahmadinejad, but we are not deceived. We know by his other words that he means that only those who repent and serve his god are (in his opinion) "blessed". Thus, his prayer is that we might be "blessed" by receiving his religion with it triumphing over and 'saving' us and all the nations of the world - "saving" the world from the darkness of all who disagree with his intolerant murderous extremist view and those who thus justly deserve, in his view, to be killed in suicide bomb attacks, shootings, killings and torture. We DAILY see the results of this form of "peaceful, saving" religion he advocates - in Iraq - with the tortured and executed bodies dumped with their hands tied behind their backs and hoods over their heads. These acts are monstrous, endorsed and, in many cases, paid for by Mr. Ahmadinejad. And those who are deceived enough to follow his words and advice - be they Democrats or Republicans - are leading the people of America astray - playing the pied piper to the music of his false religious extremism. We advocate free speech and freedom of religion - his words cloak an agenda as dark and bloodthirsty as those whose lives cry out to us from the ground as Abel's blood did at the hands of Cain. His hands are so stained with the blood of innocents - I can do nothing else but pray that God may show His justice upon the lives of those Mr. Ahmadinejad supports - as well as Mr. Ahmadinejad himself and his government. May such wicked persons who shed innocent blood never be held in honor. Is 14:20, Prov 6:16-19.)

Sara.

-- November 29, 2006 8:42 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: I have to compliment you. Your analysis of the military and political forces and motives at work with Iran and Iraq was very very shrewd, and well written. You have a good mind for military and political analysis.

I used to play a board game called Risk, as a kid. It's all about the quest for world domination. Anyone else play that? And of course, as a bunch of adults, the game we are all following is a complicated version of Risk! Sure is fun, reading your stuff. All the world is a Risk board, at this point.

I think I'll bring a Risk game to the pig roast!

-- November 29, 2006 9:07 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Here, an excellent in depth response to the assertion that there were no WMD in Iraq was given by turtle:

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126178

-- November 29, 2006 9:41 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Kurdistan Region's Central Bank director remarks on state of the dinar
November 28, 2006

The price of the Iraqi dinar will result in a drop in the dollar and euro.

The director of the Kurdistan Region's Central Bank stated that there is no plan to change the current Iraqi currency; instead, there will be trials to increase its value.

"Because currently the value of the dinar is very low, people are depending more on the dollar and euro. But increasing the price of the Iraqi dinar will result in a drop in the dollar and euro," said the director.

http://www.lawksalih.com/php/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1923

Glad to see that rumor of a new currency is not correct. :)

-- November 29, 2006 9:44 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

Yes the Iraqis seem happy with their current currency, but another thing the article also showed is the desire to increase the value of the Dinar

-- November 29, 2006 9:53 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

I hope all of you had a great Thanksgiving. At my house we had about 22 all the bird eaten. Dallas Cowboys won and McNabb out for the rest of the year. What a good thanksgiving.

Seriously, I am thankful that all of my family are healthy. My austrailan shepherd has been diagnosed with a tumor on its spleen. He went into surger last Saturday and got him back on Tuesday. He seems to be doing great, but the pathology report will be back to let us know whether the tumor is cancerous. Those of you who are so inclined, please pray for my dog (Aston Martin).

What has all of this have to do with the Dinar? Absolutely nothing. What I find interesting is a breif blurb again appearing on www.dinartrade.com:

The Republic of Iraq
Council of Ministers-the governmental communications
Media Relations
Press Release Press release /
Wednesday, 11-29-2006

The Iraqi Central Bank announced its readiness to buy the dollar

An official source at the Central Bank of Iraq is ready to buy the dollar in cash and through the foreign currency auction to be held daily.
The source added : The purchase price is determined on the basis of the sale price of dollar cash in the auction only minus 2 dinars.
Zubaidi on this subject : Monetary value of the Iraqi dinar must revert to the previous level, or at least to acceptable levels as it is in the Iraqi neighboring states.
Undersecretary to Minister of Finance:
The rise in the value of the Iraqi currency against the dollar would reduce the value of imports, and raising the value of exports. As exports are negligible, the economy will benefit from the policy of raising the rate of the Iraqi dinar

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 29, 2006 10:20 PM ∞

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Neil wrote:

Sara:

I have to admit, that in a very courteous, detailed, comprehensive and eloquent way, you just gave me an old fashioned country ass-chewing. I maybe deserve that too, because I have a tendency to just blurt out my feelings rather than create a good background before I state my topic.

I am an old military man and probably the worst war-hawk on anyone but I think an American soldier is trained to kill not win hearts and souls of an unknown enemy and dodge bullets and land mines in the process. The soldiers who took fire from a house and then destroyed the house in Iraq are facing prison.

Give the American soldier an enemy to fight or keep him at home. The first few days of the Iraqi war was what the soldier is trained for and he performed superbly.

I think we are all pulling in the same direction but just see it from a different prospective.

-- November 29, 2006 11:57 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N and Sara,

Both of you have come up with two postings ( in the middle of all the turmoil) in the same day, that shows that they are willing to increase the value of the Dinar.

I don't know about you guys, (and gals), I sure get involved and intrigued about all the Sad'r stuff, but data given from an obscure article, given by reps from CBI and the Under Secretary of Finances, gives me the kick.

In the middle of the turmoil at least as it is perceived here, the Iraqi finances seems to be on a steady course, their banking plans seems to go as planned and our best wishes is answered by finance men in Iraq.

It's almost like the Iraqis are reading this blog in secret, because the exact reason that have been professed here, are said by the Iraqis, almost word by word.

"The rise in the value of the Iraqi currency against the Dollar would reduce the value of imports, and raising the value of exports, as exports are negligible, the economy will benefit from the policy of raising the rate of the Iraqi Dinar." The Under Secretary to Minister of Fiances of Iraq.

They're saying it, they want it to go up, this current Dinar adjustment will not do the trick unless everyone will die and experience Rigor Mortise before it is done, so a "real" RV is the only way to accomplish this.

What is interesting is that two different articles, in one day, and both the originators are this time, not journalists, economic experts, prognosticators or Dinar dealers, but Iraqi officials. One Kurdish, one from CBI and one from Dep of Finance.

Is there anyone that can recall in this blog history if THREE Iraqi officials, have been quoted in ONE day , independently telling the Dinar have to go up.

Go and whip the FATMAN and get that business taken care of, break out the popcorn, watch the Dinar, and enjoy the ride.

-- November 30, 2006 1:09 AM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

All,
Wow! Great posts everyone. Does it seem like this whole thing is teater tottering and on the brink of going one way or another?
Dinar edging up in value.
Sadr manuvering politically.
Ahmandinejad appealing directly to the American people for a pullout.
I'm wandering what is driving what in all this.

-- November 30, 2006 2:38 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Just watched the live press conference with Malaki and Bush in Jordan.

Journalists asked questions about Sad'rs relation to Malaki, Malaki refused to "specify".

The official version is that US is to "speed up ", Malakis ability to response to militia, and terrorists.

Malaki looked in my viewpoint shaken, Bush was steaming, he was completely on the ball, he owned the room, almost banging his fist when talking.

I guess Malaki and Bush have had a talk.

-- November 30, 2006 3:38 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

I heard the same thing. In fact it woke me up. I thought Bush was yelling at me!! :)

However, he's back to the same issue of the 12 million votes!

Where are, and where have those 12million people been in this quest for democracy?

Apathetic at the very best , as I see it.

12 million of anything can have a dynamic impact on almost any issue, IF IT IS THEIR ISSUE!

Your thoughts?

Carole

-- November 30, 2006 6:11 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Rob N.

I do, I did, and I am trusting that the Lord will take care of the situation with Aston Martin.

Carole

-- November 30, 2006 6:16 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Rob:
Being the parent of 2 dogs and 3 cats, I realize the deep concern you have for the member of your family Aston Martin...
My thoughts and prayers to give you the strength to endure whatever the outcome...

-- November 30, 2006 8:19 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Carole and Carl:

Thank you for the well wishes for my Austrailan Shepherd. I appreciate the thoughts

Roger:

I hope you are right that there is a larger RV looming for the currency. To expedite this larger RV, let us hope Malaki got the message from our President. It is still wait and see.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 30, 2006 9:54 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From edinarfinancial.net dated 11/29/06.

Dollar demand hits new low against iraqi dinar in 2006
November 29, 2006

The Cenbank said in its daily statement the dollar demand reached $0.850 million compared to $20.580 million on Monday.

The central bank covered all bids received from local banks which were $0.850 million in cash.

The exchange rate was at 1,437 iraqi dinar per dollar, two iraqi dinars down from the previous session.

Only six banks participated in Tuesday’s session, the lowest number in 2006, and none of them offered to sell dollars.

The Iraqi central bank runs a daily auction on Sunday through Thursday.(Source)Aswat Al Iraq

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- November 30, 2006 10:56 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S. FORCES ARREST SEVERAL TERRORIST LEADERS IN IRAQ

The U.S. military announced in a press release on November 29 that it has arrested 11 high-ranking Ansar Al-Sunnah members in a series of raids in north-central Iraq. In a statement, the military said U.S.-led coalition forces captured "the terrorist emirs of Al-Ramadi, Ba'qubah, Tikrit, Al-Qa'im, Bayji, and Baghdad." In addition, they also captured facilitators, a courier, an explosives expert, and a financier. The military said the arrests constituted a serious blow to the group, which is blamed for numerous high-profile attacks on the Iraqi government, coalition forces, and civilians. "Ansar Al-Sunnah is considered by some to be a leading terror organization in Iraq, as Al-Qaeda's leadership continues to crumble and it loses its ability to function due to Iraqi and coalition forces' systematic dismantling efforts," the statement said.

http://www.rferl.org/newsline/2006/11/6-swa/swa-301106.asp

Wouldn't you like it if the MSM, instead of declaring a Civil War in Iraq, actually covered the Al-Qaeda's leadership crumbling and losing its ability to function due to the Iraqi and coalition forces' efforts? Not to mention this gem about the Ansar Al-Sunnah taking such serious losses. But then.. that would be balanced news reporting.. showing the other side.. OUR side.. and they don't do that, do they?

-- November 30, 2006 12:05 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara!
The MSM smells blood after the blood spilling on mid-term elections..
They intend to go for the vital spots and finish the kill..

Little do they realize the barrel against their own temple.....

-- November 30, 2006 12:16 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Neil, the "old fashioned country ass-chewing" came as a result of many factors, not just yours. You were just in the line of fire. I understand your position and frustration and do think the fighting forces (which I pray for daily) are doing the best job under the circumstances. I agree, it isn't the ideal circumstances and they do perform better under differing circumstances. We are indeed all pulling in the same direction...

As for today's news as it concerns the violence in Iraq, I see 86 MORE bodies turned up dead:

86 corpses found across Iraq
From correspondents in Baghdad
November 30, 2006 06:19pm
Article from: Agence France-Presse

IRAQI and US forces have found at least 86 corpses across Iraq over the past 24 hours, the US military and local security officials said today.
A security official said that 58 corpses were recovered in Baghdad, while the US military said 28 bodies were found in a "mass grave" in the northeastern Diyala province.

Dozens of bodies are recovered daily from the streets of Baghdad - the epicentre of the communal bloodletting - of men killed execution-style.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20848686-1702,00.html

I think Iran can take a bow for some of it, as mentioned in the fine print in this article (pay attention, please):

IRAQI PRESIDENT CONCLUDES IRAN VISIT

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani concluded his visit to Tehran on November 29, and the two countries issued a joint statement wherein they each pledged not to interfere in the other's internal affairs, to abide by bilateral agreements made and registered with the United Nations, and to step up cooperation, ISNA reported. The statement stressed the importance of Iraqi territorial integrity, and Tehran committed itself to supporting the consolidation of "democratic institutions chosen by the Iraqi people" and of full popular sovereignty, also stating its support for Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's efforts to bring about national reconciliation and include diverse Iraqi groups in the political process. The statement also stated, according to ISNA, that Iraq should implement its decision to expel opposition Iranian militants of the Mujahedin Khalq Organization, currently based in a camp in Iraq; that both sides condemned "the continued criminal and destructive acts of terrorist groups in Iraq"; that Iraq should allow direct air links with Iran and help with the opening of Iranian consulates in Irbil and Al-Sulaymaniyah; and that Iran should, in turn, help Iraq open a consulate in Mashhad, while Iranian firms should be allowed to participate in construction projects in Iraq.

http://www.rferl.org/newsline/2006/11/6-swa/swa-301106.asp

Can it please be noticed that Iranian militants have a camp based in Iraq.. and what do they do with their time.. play tiddly winks? Again, doublespeak with Mr. Ahmadinejad of Iran condemning the "criminal and destructive acts of terrorist groups in Iraq" when they have a base of terrorists who foment this very violence based IN IRAQ, now, isn't it? Can we say he's a hypocrite? The MSM won't ever do so as they fawn all over him and say the world is "Ahmadinejadized". Where is the coverage of this incursion and what this base of militants from Iran are doing to the Iraqi populace and government? Silence from the MSM... Isn't it remarkable that the 86 today and "dozens of bodies recovered daily" are killed execution-style.. almost like those responsible wish to take credit that THESE ones are the handiwork of their one single group? What group might that be.. a militarized group? Hmmm.. any ideas?

Sara.

-- November 30, 2006 12:33 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

So, I just read on the MSNBC website, "breaking news" about America's plans for it's troops in Iraq. It's a supposed leak about the blue-ribbon, bi-partisan commission, led by James Baker, who will soon officially release a report on the commission's recommendations.

In a nutshell, if true, the plan is, "go long". That is, American troops will stay in Iraq, for five to ten years, to support the government of Iraq.

This would make a lot of sense.

Remember how, a month or two ago, Oakie mentioned that the American Army had set up three or four large military bases, away from big towns and cities in Iraq? I said back then that one of the best options, was for the Americans to withdraw to those bases, and let the bad guys fight it out amongst themselves.

Well, that could be what ends up happening.

There are many good reasons for this strategy. They mostly revolve around the concept of what I like to call, "Big war" and "Small War".

Remember the first few weeks of this war? How the American Army easily smashed to pieces the Iraqi Army? There were good and practical reasons why that happened. America is very good at "Big War". Big war is large armies battling on another. Tank on tank warfare. Sophisticated Cruise Misslies, using GPS guided bombs, laser pointing to tactical positions to be bombed, high alitude bombing, away from missile range, advanced communications systems on the battlefield, for better coordinated battles and use of military resources, all of these Big War tactics America has a lead in.

Not just a lead. A huge lead. If you were to write a list of the top 26 countries in the world in terms of military budgets, the United States is number one, of course. But if you add up the budgets of numbers 2 through 26, and combine those budget numbers, the total of all of these equals the military budget of a single country: The United States. In fact, the entire military budget of Great Britain is equal to, just the increase in the American military budget in a single year. And a good deal of that American military budget money is spent on research and development, and large and sophisticated military equipment. That's why America is so good at Big War. That's why they can win Big Wars so quickly and easily.

But there are many kinds of war. Another kind I like to call Little War. We have been watching a Little War in Bagdhad. In a Little war, many of the tools used to win Big Wars are far less effective. A little war can involve house to house, close quarter fighting. A group of Iraqis with rifles and other low-tech equipment, and who know the terrain, and are willing to fight and run, hit and run, can be very effective in fighting a great army, like the United States has. The enemy can attack suing IEDs. In a Little War, the enemy does not even wear a uniform. That makes him hard to detect. He can slip in and out of the population at will, fighting for a while, then withdrawing from the fighting under disguise of civilian clothes. Since the American Army is restricted, in how it deals with civilians, and since the enemy is often disguised as a civilian, this makes it difficult to fight the enemy. Like in terrorism, in a Little War, the enemy can attack at random, making detection and countering his action difficult.

Now, add to this mix religious fanaticism, competing and mutually hostile ethnic and religious groups, a history of recent brutality by the goverenment of Saddam Hussein, that makes the culture resistant to getting along with each other, foreign interference from Iran, who would love to own all the oil in Iraq, political resistance to the war from the liberal press in the United States that completely distorts the nature of the conflict, actively trying to turn the American public against it's own army, and you can see why Little Wars are difficult to fight.

What to do? What to do? You do just what I suggested a while back. Your retreat to military bases within Iraq, you continue to actively support the government of Iraq, you let them do most of the fighting. You stay for a while. The news leak said the Americans plan to be in Iraq for five to ten years, but I think that's b.s. They will stay a lot longer than that.

Now, how does all this fit in with my Big War/Little War comments? Easy. By parking out in the middle of nowhere, America gains an enormous tactical advantage. There is no large scale Iraqi Army to take on the Americans. Even if there were, they would be smashed very quickly if they dared take on the American Army.

That's because with all the Big War technological advantages the United States has, they could see the enemy coming for a hundred miles and destroy them before they got within ninety-nine miles, with high level bombing. That means the American Army can go sit in the middle of nowhere, always able to help to the Iraqi government, always a threat to the enemy, all without taking a lot of casualties themselves.

America will leave all the Little War stuff up to the Iraqi Army. That's my guess. Let them take the high casualty rates. It's their country. If they want freedom and a good country, let them fight for it. Let them earn it. America will be there, helping, but Iraqis will have to do all the hard work involved in this Little War.

Of course, all this will mean American casualty rates will fall. This means the liberal press will have less to complain about. Liberals are always concerned about Americans killing Iraqis, but if it is just Iraqis killing Iraqis, coverage of the war will fade from the TV screens.

And, since the Americans will be there for a while, if this is true, here's a memo to Iran: "Sorry, you can't have the oil in Iraq! Tough camel droppings, Omar!"

Now, I may have seen this coming a while back, but believe me, this is no accident. The press is reporting this like this came out of nowhere. I sincerly doubt that. Building military bases is a long term project. It's done with a purpose. My guess is, the top American military leaders saw all this coming even long before America went over there. This was all planned five years ago. They planned to stay long term, on bases, for obvious political and tactical reasons, long before they even went overseas to Iraq. And the dummies in the MSM still haven't caught on. And this Baker commission will just put a bi-partisan stamp of approval of what was planned all along.

-- November 30, 2006 12:43 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts;

This says what you did.. just to back up waht you said that this looks like the strategy.

Iraq Study Group Reaches Concensus
Posted by kdawson on Thursday November 30, @08:20AM
from the bring-them-home-but-when? dept.

reporter writes to point us to a story in the Washington Post reporting that the Iraq Study Group has reached consensus and will issue its 100-page report on December 6: 'The Iraq Study Group, which wrapped up eight months of deliberations yesterday, has reached a consensus and will call for a major withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, shifting the U.S. role from combat to support and advising, according to a source familiar with the deliberations.' The Post mentions that first word of the panel's conclusions came from the New York Times yesterday. The Times points out that it is not clear how many U.S. troops would come home; some brigades might be withdrawn to Iraqi bases out of the line of fire from which they could provide protection for remaining U.S. operations.

http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/30/132219&from=rss

-- November 30, 2006 1:02 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Bush backs Iraq PM, says no U.S. "graceful exit"
Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:48 AM EST
By Tabassum Zakaria and Suleiman al-Khalidi

AMMAN (Reuters) - President Bush strongly backed Iraq's prime minister on Thursday, saying Iraqi forces would be prepared more quickly to take over security and that Washington was not looking for a "graceful exit."

"Part of the prime minister's frustrations is that he doesn't have the tools necessary to take care of those who break the law," Bush said after the talks. "We talked today about accelerating authority to the prime minister so he can do what the Iraqi people expect him to do," Bush told a joint news conference with Maliki.

U.S. troops were in Iraq to "get the job done" and would stay as long as the Baghdad government wanted them there.

"We agreed on the importance of speeding up the training of Iraq security forces," Bush said, touching on a long-standing U.S. goal of transferring control to Iraqis.

"It's in our interests to help liberty prevail in the Middle East, starting with Iraq. And that's why this business about graceful exit simply has no realism to it at all."

A U.S. official, who asked not to be named, said later the process was a delicate one. "On the one hand you want Iraqis to be in control as quickly as possible. On the other hand, you don't want them to find themselves unprepared or incapable of handling the situations as they arise," the official said.

Bush was speaking after reports the Iraq Study Group will recommend the U.S. military shift from combat to a support role in Iraq, and will call for a regional conference that could lead to direct U.S. talks with Iran and Syria, both accused by Washington of fomenting violence in their neighbor.

Maliki said his country wanted good ties with its neighbors but warned against external meddling.

"Iraq is for Iraqis. Its frontiers are defended and we will not allow them to be violated or let people interfere in our internal affairs," he said at the news conference.

Bush had expected to see Maliki on Wednesday, along with Jordan's King Abdullah. He was told on the way from Latvia, where he attended a NATO summit, that the Jordanians and Iraqis had decided against a three-way meeting, a U.S. official said.

In the end, Abdullah met both leaders separately.

Bush said he and Maliki had ruled out any idea of dividing Iraq as a way to halt rampant sectarian violence.

The emir of neighboring Kuwait was quoted as saying a U.S. pullout would not stabilize Iraq. "On the contrary, the situation would worsen and we would see a civil war of great intensity for which the whole world would pay the price," Sheikh Sabah al-Ahmad al-Sabah told the French daily Le Figaro.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-11-30T144817Z_01_COL153081_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-COL.XML

-- November 30, 2006 1:15 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Saudis 'will intervene if US pulls out'
Published: 30/11/2006 Reuters

Washington: Using money, weapons or its oil power, Saudi Arabia will intervene to prevent Iranian-backed Shiite militias from massacring Iraqi Sunnis once the United States begins pulling out of Iraq, a security adviser to the Saudi government said on Wednesday.

Nawaf Obaid, writing in The Washington Post, said the Saudi leadership was preparing to revise its Iraq policy to deal with the aftermath of a possible US pullout, and is considering options including flooding the oil market to crash prices and thus limit Iran's ability to finance Shiite militias in Iraq.

"To be sure, Saudi engagement in Iraq carries great risks - it could spark a regional war. So be it: The consequences of inaction are far worse," Obaid said.

The article said the opinions expressed were Obaid's own and not those of the Saudi government.

"To turn a blind eye to the massacre of Iraqi Sunnis would be to abandon the principles upon which the kingdom was founded. It would undermine Saudi Arabia's credibility in the Sunni world and would be a capitulation to Iran's militarist actions in the region," he said.

US Vice-President Dick Cheney held talks with Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz in Riyadh on Saturday.

Obaid said Cheney's visit "underlines the pre-eminence of Saudi Arabia in the region and its importance to US strategy in Iraq".

He said if the United States begins withdrawing from Iraq, "one of the first consequences will be massive Saudi intervention to stop Iranian-backed Shiite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis."

http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Saudi_Arabia/10086159.html

These are wise words from Mr. Nawaf Obaid. Need I point out all the involvement of IRAN in the troubles in Iraq and how the Saudis can help diffuse the situation if they wish to? Mr Obaid wishes to stop the "Iranian-backed Shiite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis"... we would love to see that, too.

IRAN is the enemy and fomenting the violence.. I am glad Saudi Arabia sees this and is working to address the problem. I agree that, "To turn a blind eye to the massacre of Iraqi Sunnis would be to abandon the principles upon which the kingdom was founded. It would undermine Saudi Arabia's credibility in the Sunni world and would be a capitulation to Iran's militarist actions in the region."

The Saudis are indeed of "preeminent importance in the region" and as Carl said, if these leaders commit to dealing with these affairs we will see some serious curtailing of the bloodshed, violence and problems.. which in turn, of course, would not be bad for Iraq's stability and the increasing good fortune of the Dinar.

Sara.

-- November 30, 2006 1:43 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Tim Bitts......

The large remote bases have been around since 2004. In addition to being very remote they all have the characteristic of having some of the longest runways in the world and thus able to handle any aircraft in the Military. I only saw two of them but they were awesome. And yes....being a true Okie, I enjoyed their first class chow halls. The two I saw also had swimming pools and other things like Burger King and KFC.

Needless to say, security is rock solid around these bases.

-- November 30, 2006 1:48 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Tim:
Good Post! Some of the men would be in better defensive positions, but the best defense is a good offense...not setting a waiting for the enemy...Stableness...gives time for someone to fiqure out a kill shot...
Plus! if Iran attacks Iraq....most of the Police and Iraqi Army if not all...will be lining up with the Iranians...
There will not be a safe haven for anyone...regardless how remote or large...Missles from Iran would have not problem doing damage to those bases...large holes, control towers gone...stops planes from landing immediately for either or re-enforcements or evacuations...what you have then is simply men stuck in a remote area...starving for water and food.
The surrounding armies the utilizes the one thing the USA forces don't have ...TIME... Its a great equalizer in War...especially during a hot period...

If it just stays a civil war that is a good plan...let the Iraqi's fight it out....But note*** Iran is not going to stand for just a civil war...that is not in their plans....a civil war by itself...does them more harm than good...the goal is to control Iran...and all of its benefits...plus the 12th Iman is mandated to command from the center of the the Persian empire...which just happens to be in Iraq...

The Arab Nations have either got to step up now or get the hell out of the way..
Because the war pom pom's are just about through with the dance...and the paint is being smeared...

-- November 30, 2006 2:34 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Roger: Sara's post on Al-Qaeda crumbling... There is your beginning I was waiting for. Keep an eye as that should continue to develope nicely in the coming months.

-- November 30, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole....

You asked about the 12 million people.....

I believe they're all hunkered down and afraid to make any moves just to keep from getting maimed or killed by the bad guys. These people are the future of Iraq and need to be protected at all costs. Their resources to organize an uprising are very limited and almost impossible. That's why it's necessary to disarm the militants. It would be like Los Angeles being run by the gangs without any police protection.

-- November 30, 2006 3:30 PM ∞

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Tom wrote:

Maybe we should be arming those who are the victims instead of trying to disarm the bad guys.

-- November 30, 2006 3:43 PM ∞

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cornish boy wrote:

hi all has any one looked at xe.com when you hit refresh the uk numbers move but the us numbers stay the same at 1.427.35

-- November 30, 2006 4:28 PM ∞

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cornish boy wrote:

hi all has any one looked at xe.com when you hit refresh the uk numbers move but the us numbers stay the same at 1.427.35

-- November 30, 2006 4:29 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl wrote:

If Iran attacks Iraq....most of the Police and Iraqi Army if not all...will be lining up with the Iranians...

There will not be a safe haven for anyone...regardless how remote or large...Missles from Iran would have not problem doing damage to those bases...large holes, control towers gone...stops planes from landing immediately for either or re-enforcements or evacuations...what you have then is simply men stuck in a remote area...starving for water and food.
The surrounding armies the utilizes the one thing the USA forces don't have ...TIME... Its a great equalizer in War...especially during a hot period...

===end of quote===

I think the US has the most advanced military techology for defending their Iraqi bases and I do not think that Iran (whose capabilities are at best emerging) could manage to mount any real sustained attacks at those bases or the aircraft flying in their supplies. I forsee little to none of those attempts to attack the bases causing any holes or control towers to be taken out, as I am under the impression that anti-missile technology does in fact exist. Direct confrontation coming in from Iran to Iraq would end up with very BIG war retaliation, as well, so what you envision here is missile insurgent attacks against isolated and well defenced bases.. I just don't think the scale would be large or sustainable enough to cause a seige or much damage. Can they really surround a base and wait it out? I don't think so. Taking potshots from afar at aircraft or bases would open them up to having a bunker buster dropped on their heads.. how could they mount any sustainable blockade, seige or attack?

And if the Saudis do impoverish the Iranians by crashing the price of oil (bye-bye oil sands, Tim Bitts.. not a good investment for now if that happens??), then who will stand with the poverty striken nation of Iran through this and supply them with anything? Nations willing to help them in any way have been tentative at best. Oil is Iran's mainstay, and if it is cut off, they are literally starving.. end of war. Iran will have to turn to internal affairs instead of funding the Iraqi insurgency/war, just to survive. TIME is then on our side and the Saudi Sunnis (thankfully) would be seen as the ones who caused this - saving their Sunni brothers in Iraq from being butchered by the Iran-supplied/supported insurgents.

It is best the Saudi's be given the credit for stopping the killing, I think. It will pacify the region who has increasingly seen the US as encroaching. Getting Iraq stable and on the road to recovery is the aim.. this could work to end the unacceptable violence. It is a fresh approach to the war, with several prongs which could come together and cut off the major source of the terrorism (Iran), while showing solidarity within the Muslim world for other suffering Muslims.

I also do NOT think all or even most of the Police and Iraqi Army officers are corrupt and in the pocket of Iran - monetarily or ideologically. But if you have the equivalent of the MOB running about within Iraq and assassinating people, you don't stick your head up and make yourself a target. The patriotic Iraqis exist, they are just laying low for now, watching which way the cookie crumbles and where they will fit in the new government of the day. Given the right circumstances (withdrawl of insurgents and withdrawl of support for the insurgency from the insurgency's main supplier - Iran - no new IEDs, guns, missiles, etc), they will adjust to their new freedom and do the country proud. Maliki seems to have it within him to fight and those who braved being killed to vote show the will of the people in being willing to do what is necessary. The Iraqi forces are made up from that populace. We all know they all want freedom. If the insurgency is cut off at the knees and the Iraqi economy revitalized so the Iraqi people have hope and jobs.. the Iraqis could be on the road to recovery sooner than most expect.

Good for them, good for us.. good for the Dinar. :)

Sara.

-- November 30, 2006 5:50 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Tom,

If I have my info straight, Iraqis are already allowed to have ONE AK 47 per household. Plus two, or three fully loaded magazines. I know they can have handguns.

It's more a question of who can afford a piece. Even over here, a handgun alone commands a pretty respectable price.

An average Iraqi ( with the current currency exchange) makes in Dollars, in the vicinity of $200 a month. That three months salary just to get a quality piece handgun.

Turtle, Sara,

Yes, that was a very good blow, Al Qaida got hurt pretty badly with those arrests. Al Qaida was the instigator, to the today's violence, and succeeded pretty good in making the two factions get at each other.

Carl, Tim,

If the US military can get free hands, and all those restricted, rule ridden ways of cleaning up, can be abandoned, the militias for sure will be dealt with, and as taking out the head of the snake, more effort to go from the top down would probably work much better. At first there would be an outrage amongst Sad'rs guys when Sad'r gets arrested on his pending murder charges, and his cleric mafia that he have around him, would also sit as accomplices, in a very slow investigation.

The US military have already shown that it is fully capable to deal with militia, with a devastating effect on militia, see Fallujah.

Iran would NOT attack in an open and straight manner, then, as Tim says, we would have the BIG war, and that is a loser for Iran, conventional or Nuclear.

What Iran does best, is infiltration, 5th columns, spies, undermining, terror cells, threats, media lies, and controlling groups outside of Iran's border.

Actually looking at it, they are darn good in doing that.

As in straight military battle, they have resources, but in comparison, there is no doubt of the outcome. Iran have been leaning heavily on Soviet/Russian technology. The Russians make very good sluggers, that would have been , if transported back in time to the 2nd WW, would have been superior on the battle field, but the Russian technology thinking got stuck in that conflict, and the electronics needed in today's warfare, is in their stuff, many generations behind.

In the nuclear field, they don't even HAVE a bomb yet, and even if they get the bomb, they are up against a nation that have the biggest stockpile in the world, have delivery systems that can place them exactly where intended, and have 60+ years experience in nuclear development, having passed atomic bombs, as the first step, and Thermonuclear bombs are plentiful in our arsenal.

When talking atomic bombs, were talking Kilotons, but when talking Thermonuclear, were talking Megatons.

There is a difference in the two possible forces that may end up in a conflict over Iraq.

But the wild card is not in the facts.

The wild card is in holy religious death wish aspirations on Irans part.

If their President are having daily chats with Allah, things might get hairy.

Psychotic Fascist wont go down peacefully. Adolf Hitler, demanded fighting to the bitter end, as did the Japanese military junta running Japan at the end of WW2.

At the time Germany started to be pushed back on the Eastern Front, it was obvious the war was lost for Germany.

Japan had about 6 months of quick expansion until it stalled, and from there it, was an endless retreat, until the defeat some years later.

A more pragmatic regime would in both instances have seen, that the war was lost, long before all the extra bloodshed had to take place, but Psychotic Fascists don't think that way. Psychotics will, when they go down, make sure that as much devastation as possible will take place, before they go.

That's what psychotics do, they have to have a mass killings of family members, and preferably a couple of workers at the plant,(where he just got fired) before they finally take their own life.

That is the point I fear when it comes to Iran. Military moves that is bound to fail, but it will do as much harm as possible to as much people as possible, before they go down in retaliation, all in a glorious and holy homecoming to Allah.

As for now, if an offensive, is started against Sad'rs gang, will Iran roll it's tanks across the border to help Sad'r.

Don't think so, they will scream a lot, but Iran have more glorious purpose in the future, but that is only when as much devastation as possible can be administered with their blow.

Rob N.

The Dollar amount is very very low, I think it's time the scrap their Dollar auction, Iraq have now a reserve of about 10 Bill $, and the debt forgiveness program almost complete. They have a pretty good financial position right now, and are gaining every day, ( Dinar go go go ) and the IMF criterion's are on track. the banking system have made very very good progress and it's a matter of time now until there will be a more modern system set up, in their banking world.

I mean, Rob N. It's pretty silly, having an option of two currencies only, in their banking balancing system, (I'm sure you can exchange other currencies as well over there, but as a balance act, there are only two options).

Now, if you want to raise the value of the Dinar, against Dollar, then no one will, in their system want to get Dollars, as the only payment you have is Dinar, to buy those Dollars. Knowing that the Dinar is getting more and more valuable, towards the Dollar, you really want to hold onto those Dinars, they get stuck, and it doesn't matter how much Dollars you offer, the Dinar is the winner in that system, and if Dollars was fresh fish in CBI, the CBI would stink pretty much right now.

Well, they get to that when they get to that, changes have always been slow to come in that country, but it is bound to come.

As for your doggie,

My sympathies, I had a cat for about ten years, one day just gone. I'm still looking at the photo.

Carole,

I think it's a morale issue, the enthusiasm we all had around the time the Iraq war was won, the Iraqis probably felt the winds of change at that time too.

I can imagine two brothers, one is 8 years of age, and one is 6 years of age.

The 8 year old get a model airplane, a fairly complex kid, the 8 year old is very enthusiastic about it, and it is juuuuust within his ability to build it. The 8 year old is enthusiastic, and it is consuming his attention fully.

The 6 year old is smart, but doesn't have the ability his 8 year old brother have, and he is very jealous.

The 6 year old will in all kind of manners try to minimise what his 8 year old is doing, tell him he is a nerd, that those planes are not cool, that Nintendo is more fun, that .... this, that .....that.
The 6 year old, makes sure there will be "accidents" around the model, sabotaging and laughs about it. The 6 year old goes to mom and tell her lies, and after a while, all the fun, the future and aspiration to build that airplane model kit, is out the window.

In the same manner, Lance, a poster we had earlier here on this blog, a contractor on the ground in Iraq, told us about where the communication is coming from for the ordinary Iraqi.

We know Iraq as a free Radio, free TV, free Press and so on, but the reality on the ground is different.

The Iraqis have had their Iman as their spiritual leader, for ages, anything not religious (and that's not much) the Clan chief have a word in.

The Iman quickly took control over the papers, and local TV and Radio stations, and will tell the congregation what "approved" stations, papers and Radio channels they can listen to.

Anywhere he turns, there is an agenda in it, any communication have a reason for it, so the kind of journalism we see in STAR, or The Enquirer, those are magazines we laugh at here, but over there, conspiracies are the norm.

It's a continuous flow of conspiracies. Handed out by ill educated Imans that can see religious aspects of everything and anything. It's hard to find a place where you can have your own thoughts, and the noise starts 5 am when the minarets are yelling out that you should pray.

Democracy will change the power structure in the society, and weaken the Iman and Clan structure.

That structure is set hard, and the players are very unwilling to give up their powers. So they are pushing a lot of issues, and like a losing psychotic, is screaming and blaming anything ,when they go down.

A lot of pockets of this internal power structure just don't want to give up their power, and submit to Democratic processes. Many of these players sees it as their God given right to tell their people what is right and what is wrong, and in the most uneducated areas, in the low class districts, that's where the most intense militia activity is going on.

Loyalties are not in the first hand to Iraq, , it's government, it's institutions, it's flag, it's constitution, it's army. it's police, it's borders.

Loyalty in those areas are in the first hand given to their Iman, their Clan chief, their religious faction.

Some of the powers that are acting on their own, have taken to weapons and are enforcing their views, Iran is there and dabbling as well, but all in all, it's a resistance to change.

Malakis failure is the failure to implementation of change, but instead he have been negotiated endlessly with other powers, powers that is NOT the Iraq government, Iraq Flag etc.

You can't ASK them, if you are in power, you TELL them.

What you are witnessing now, is probably something that is coming to a head.

The whole issue is only one thing. The Iraqi Government IS the power, and if this is not accepted, this must be enforced.

The latest Malaki, Bush meeting most probably drove home that point.

If Malaki still doesn't enforce the Iraqi gov power, I can't see that he will survive politically.

This is the point when we say, pass the popcorn.

-- November 30, 2006 7:04 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

The Saudis can't get in into Iraq without aligning it with the US.

My immediate gut feeling on that proposition is , that this is dead in the water.

It would put Saudi Sunni, and Iran Shiite , in straight collision course.

I think that anyone looking on this as any kind of solution to anything, would start shaking the head.

Anything this woulds solve, would be so much lesser than the problem this will create.....naaaa, I say, busted.

-- November 30, 2006 7:20 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Sara!

If Iran comes into Iraq and attackes our bases...I would say the BIG WAR is on...I am not talking about the insurgency...Iran has been sold some of the most sophisticated missles Russia could sale them under restrictive guidelines...the truth is probably somewhere in the middle...
Missle defenses are great but not 100%...and yes! they would surround and wait...why not..? Their units would be getting hit..but I suspect that..any nation who puts children up front as mine field fodder during the Iraqi/Iran war is not squemish about losing men...

Iraqi Police and Military
Just saw a US Officer today state that one of the main problems they are having with the Iraqi soldiers and Police is the Corruption...Nepotism...and Religious intolerance...that it will take generations to bring their forces up to our standards...otherwords he was saying...most would have to die out, as the average Iraqi's present way of thinking is deeply ingrained...

I believe turtle and Okie however, can address these issues better than I can...as I may be totally wrong in my assessment...

-- November 30, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carl,

Iran is acting psychotic, it is so hard to predict anything rational when logic ,rhyme and reason, doesn't count.

Right now a mass psychosis is happening on the street in Baghdad.

Different people with different agendas, have been not whispering, but screaming illogics, lies, propaganda, and hidden agendas, in any conspiracy form, you can ever imagine, in the ears of those people.

It's the same psychosis on the streets now, as in a kindergarten, the hour before the parents are picking up the kids, they are tired , maybe hungry, and just scream, hitting other kids, with whatever they can get their hands on, and the babysitter is busy chewing chewing gum, talking with her boyfriend over the phone in the office.

It's a mass psychosis going on, the bad guys are feeding it, no one is safe, Doctors, kids, Shiites, Sunnies, cabdrivers, street sweepers, anything is unsafe, anyone can be killed.

There is no offensive, with purpose , there is no perceived plan, there is no agenda that is sprayed on the walls, there is no unity, just a sporadic mass of people loosely belonging to something, killing whatever in his opinion he don't like. It's more a situation where authority have been lost, and groups, or clans are fighting each other. Alliances are made and lost in a day, and criminals are running around in PU trucks rounding up people killing them.

Sad'rs own militia have fought each other on occasion. Being a Shiite amongst Shiites is not a ticket for survival.

ONE STRONG FORCE MUST TAKE AUTHORITY.

This coming days and perhaps weeks, will show if Malaki is still a talker or if he will finally walk into the psychotic kindergarten room where all the kids are screaming and hitting each other randomly, and straighten things out.

-- November 30, 2006 8:19 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Despite AP Denials, Iraq Gov. Says Body Burning Source a Fake
Posted by Al Brown on November 30, 2006 - 00:30.

The "police captain" that the Associated Press used as the source for their story about six Sunni men dragged from prayers and burned alive by Shiite militants is not a policeman and does not work for the Iraqi government in any capacity, according to the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior.

CENTCOM had warned the AP about Hussein and other questionable sources they were using, but was rebuffed by the wire service organization. The AP's sensational story of the burning Sunnis was cited by NBC as a reason they decided to start calling violence in Iraq a "civil war." The source, "police captain Jamil Hussein," has been quoted in wire service stories since April of this year.

Michelle Malkin has the details of a press conference held today by Iraqi Brigadier General Abdul-Kareem, speaking for the Iraqi Minstry of the Interior:

From CPATT PAO: BG Abdul-Kareem, the Ministry of Interior Spokesman, went on the record today stating that Capt. Jamil Hussein is not a police officer. He explained the coordinations among MOI, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Defense in attempting to track down these bodies and their joint conclusion was that this was unsubstantiated rumor.

He went on to name several other false sources that have been used recently and appealed to the media to document their news before reporting. He went into some detail about the impact of the press carrying propaganda for the enemies of Iraq and thanked "the friends" who have brought this to their attention.

AP did attend the press conference.

Michelle has also posted a partial transcript of the press conference. In it, Abdul-Kareem accuses the wire services of printing unsubstantiated rumors using anonymous sources and bogus named sources.

So far, the Associated Press is standing by their story, claiming that their reporters visited Jamil Hussein at his police station. This brings the AP's reporters themselves into question. Are they simply trying to cover up a costly and humiliating mistake, or are they unvetted local hires whose allegiance is really to al Qaeda?

The bogus source story was broken by the blog, Flopping Aces.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9348

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that converts to Islam work for the news networks.

Allegiance to radical extremism, such as the al Qaeda, is no different than Americans who embraced a radical belief in Communism during the Cold War.

Sara.

-- November 30, 2006 8:51 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

CNN’s Bob Franken Slip-up: Democrats Eager to Undermine United States?
Posted by Scott Whitlock on November 30, 2006 - 15:43.

It may surprise conservatives, but CNN reporter Bob Franken alleged on Thursday’s "American Morning" that Democrats are eager to label Iraq a civil war in order to undercut U.S. support for remaining in the country. Considering the cable network’s cheerleading for the Democratic Party in the recently completed midterm elections, this plainspoken statement must have been unintentional. Franken’s comment came in the midst of an otherwise typical CNN report. The segment highlighted how all respectable individuals and organizations call the conflict a civil war, so why can’t President Bush? Remarking on the popularity of the civil war terminology, Franken offered an explanation for the Democrats embrace of the phrase:

Bob Franken: "But many experts say that designating this a civil war will undermine U.S. support even more, which might explain why so many Democrats are jumping on the bandwagon."

http://newsbusters.org/node/9357

-- November 30, 2006 9:11 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

WashPost: Using 'Civil War' To Define Iraq Undercuts Public Opinion
Posted by Tim Graham on November 29, 2006 - 07:27.

In one of those "analysis" pieces reporters love to write, Washington Post White House reporter Peter Baker underlined on Wednesday one reason why NBC might have started using "civil war" to define Iraq: it severely undercuts the Iraq war in opinion polls:

Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.), a member of the Armed Services Committee, said Bush would rather frame it in the terrorism context to preserve public support. "If it's a civil war and only a small portion of it involves al-Qaeda operatives, then it's suddenly not the central front in the war on terror, it's a struggle by Iraqis for political power," he said. "That means the rationales for this are severely undercut."

Polls suggest that most Americans have already settled this debate in their minds -- 61 percent of those surveyed in September by NBC News and the Wall Street Journal described the situation in Iraq as a civil war, while 65 percent agreed in a CNN poll and 72 percent in a Gallup poll. Of those who described the conflict as "out of control" and a "civil war" in a later Gallup-USA Today poll, 84 percent called U.S. involvement a mistake, compared with 25 percent of those who did not view the situation that way.

"There's a good deal of research to suggest that the American public is less willing to use troops to intervene in other countries' civil wars than in humanitarian-type missions," said Christopher F. Gelpi, a Duke University scholar who has studied public opinion in wartime. "So even if the facts on the ground are the same . . . the label used has a substantial effect on public opinion. That's why they're fighting over it."

Baker also included conservative analyst Michael Ledeen of AEI arguing that "terror war" would be a term that would work. Baker wrapped up the piece with the idea that calling Iraq a "civil war" could make it more likely to develop along those lines:

Kurt M. Campbell, a Pentagon official in the Clinton administration, said many key players in Iraq have not engaged in violence but could decide to weigh in if they think the conflict has evolved into an all-out struggle for power -- which means the Iraqis and Americans have a legitimate reason to fear the disputed phrase. "It may trigger the thing you're trying to forestall," he said. "It's not simply a matter of political correctness and trying to avoid harsh reaction."

But Campbell added that it does look like it's heading that way. Liberals have argued that the media are somehow cowed into using administration-approved terminology that's at odds with "reality" on the ground. "A fine example of the American people, through the election process, informing those who should be informing us," one liberal commenter wrote on Think Progress.

But as this article shows, these terms are loaded with political impact, and it should be obvious that NBC could also be portrayed as being cowed into new, gloomier terminology in advance of anti-war Democrats like Nancy Pelosi coming to power with ending American involvement in Iraq as their number one priority.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9320

-- November 30, 2006 9:13 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

FNC's John Gibson: Can a TV Network 'Decide when the U.S. Surrenders in Iraq?
Posted by Greg Sheffield on November 30, 2006 - 11:44.

Yesterday John Gibson, host of "The Big Story" on Fox News, wondered if a national TV network, NBC, should make the country's foreign policy.

Let me introduce you to somebody. His name is Robert Wright. He is the chairman of the NBC television network, which is actually a few networks including CNBC and MSNBC. In essence, he runs those networks.

Since I used to work over there and know Mr. Wright and know how things work somewhat, I am confident I am right when I say Bob Wright decided, or at least approved, NBC's policy to refer to whatever it is that is now going on in Iraq as a civil war.

The Pentagon doesn't think so. The White House doesn't think so. Even CBS Evening News Executive Producer Rome Hartman said he thought NBC's decision wasn't so much a news judgment as a political judgment.

I think Mr. Hartman is correct. And it raises the question: Can an American network decide when the U.S. surrenders in Iraq? Can that network decide when the U.S. leaves Iraq and under what conditions? Is NBC covering the news or creating the news?

So now does NBC say if America gets into a war or not, or can NBC say when America is going to leave a war or not? Does Bob Wright now get to make the call?

But I do have to wonder what Bob Wright is up to. I have to wonder if it would be possible for FDR to have conducted World War II under the kind of questioning that the administration gets from "Meet the Press." Could Eisenhower have ordered D-Day knowing he'd be held responsible for so many American deaths and probably not given much credit for a successful invasion? Could Lincoln have conducted the Civil War under this kind of scrutiny? Could Lincoln have suspended Habeas Corpus and arrested his political opponents if he had to face the outrage that would have come from the studios of an 1860s NBC News?

People are entitled to their opinions, even network chairmen. But you have to wonder if it's such a great idea for network chairmen to decide when it is we have lost a war.

That's My Word.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9349

-- November 30, 2006 9:14 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Interesting responses to my last post. Thanks, all.

Carl, you made a comment on time. Yes, time is a huge huge factor, with regards to war. You are very right on this, in my opinion.

That's why America needs to stay in Iraq. So they can have influence, in the long run. If America leaves, their influence is diminished.

You mentioned a military officer who said it would take generations to end the corruption and bring many things up to American standards. That sounds reasonable to me.

I'd go further than that and say it is my impression their entire culture is very backward in many ways. Contact with Americans over along period will help slowly civilize them.

I remember reading about the ancient Romans trying to tame many savage Northern European tribes. At one time, many people we now consider to be civilized, like the Irish and the Scots, were considered to be barbaric. They acted pretty much like the worst Iraqis.

It took a very long time to civilize them. We're talking centuries. The way the Romans did it was to garrison troops in fortified, walled large buildings, with a high level of security. The ruins of these can be found all around Europe. After hunkering down in fortifications, soldiers would enforce laws, and gradually, over many years, Roman culture would civilize the tribes. The basis of European modern life is law, and we can thank the Romans for that. America is the new Rome. The Roman approach and the new American strategy sound similar.

So much coverage in the MSM has been along the line of, oh, its so tragic, this is such along war, how can this be, the sky is falling, what are we doing wrong, yada yada.

Well, America made a few mistakes in this war, but nothing that can't be fixed. The biggest mistake, by far, would be simply leaving Iraq.

No one knows really what will happen in that country. It is a dynamic, constantly changing situation, with an awful lot of variables and personalities at play. So there are many many possibilities, as to what could happen.

Despite all this uncertaintly, the one thing I am absolutely certain about one thing. America will lose it's influence, and the respect of other countries, if it simply leaves. You can't win at a game you are unwilling to play. You have to play, to win. Leaving would be a tragic mistake.

As I have written in the past, I think Iraq is the opening battle in a series of conflicts between Islamic radicals, and the West. I am guessing this conflict between radical Islam and the United States will last at least as long as the Cold War. If America loses round one because it gets tired of fighting, that does not bode well for the future.

That's why it is important for America to stay in Iraq. To show that America will win this long term conflict with radical Islam, that they won't just run, after Vietnam, and to show that they can be a positive long term influence on the region, which would help stabilize it.

The whole strategy of the insurgents and Iran is based on their belief that America is only in it for the short term. They know for certain that they cannot win any long term conflict with America. That's why they will do anything possible to get America to leave. If they learn that America is in it for the long term, this will take the wind out of their sails.

My guess is, with the latest announcement of American re-deployment, with the hunkering down of American troops on bases, there is a very unhappy leader in the middle east today. His name is President Tom of Iran.

And if Iran does try to start a Big War, with the United States, over the return of, what was it?, the 12th Iman?, then they will find they have bitten off much more than they can chew.

My guess is, things will turn out well. I'm guessing RV within 2 years. Go dinar!

-- November 30, 2006 9:35 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Olbermann Likens Gingrich to Nazis, Defends Terrorists’ First Amendment Rights
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 29, 2006 - 14:03.

It seems safe to say that Keith Olbermann has found his audience, and hit his stride. At this point, all he has to do is find a well-known conservative to bash and belittle each night, and his viewers comprised of Netroots denizens and Michael Moore devotees across the country will gush over and applaud each vitriolic statement.

With that in mind, the Tuesday installment of “Countdown” certainly didn’t disappoint such folks, as the conservative in the crosshairs du jour was former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (video available here). At issue was a speech Gingrich gave Monday night at the Nackey S. Loeb First Amendment Award dinner in New Hampshire wherein he suggested that due to the ongoing war on terror, new rules might need to be applied to our Constitution to protect the citizens. Olbermann didn’t like this idea very much, and badly misquoted a famous German theologian to evoke images of Hitler and Nazis:

If you`re going to destroy freedom of speech, bub, you`ve already lost all the cities. To paraphrase Pastor Martin Niemoller`s poem about Germany in the `30s and `40s, first they came for the Fourth Amendment, then they came for habeas corpus, then came for free speech, and there was no one allowed to speak up.

So, what did Olbermann think was offensive about Gingrich’s speech? Here’s a clip provided by KO:

My (INAUDIBLE) view is that either before we lose a city, or if we are truly stupid after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of engagement that we use every technology we can find to break up their capacity to use the Internet, to break up their capacity to use free speech, and to go after people who want to kill us, to stop them from recruiting people before they get to reach out and convince young people to destroy their lives while destroying us.

Terrible position to take in the middle of the war on terror, dontcha think? Well, Olbermann certainly does, and he shared more of Gingrich’s awful concepts with his audience:

"I want to suggest to you that we right now should be impaneling people to look seriously at a level of supervision that we would never dream of, if it were not for the scale of this threat." That`s one quote. "This is a serious, long-term war," Gingrich added, "and it will inevitably lead us to want to know what is said in every suspect place in the country. It will lead us to learn how to close down every Web site that is dangerous."

Horrors. We certainly wouldn’t want to know what our enemies who are trying to kill us are communicating with one another here on our shores, would we? And, shutting down such avenues is clearly out of the question even if it meant saving American lives, correct?. After all, the terrorists' freedom of speech is much more important than our safety, isn’t it?

As the discussion ensued, Olbermann showed what he was really concerned with – his own audience which he nicely played to:

So, and also, when you talk about closing down Internet sites, who is the one who`s going to decide which those are? I mean, it could be the Daily Kos.

Oh no. Not that. After all, Keith, if they shut down Daily Kos, where would you get your ideas from, and who would watch your program?

http://newsbusters.org/node/9329

-- November 30, 2006 9:47 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

On the CBI site, for the first time, there was no takers for Dollars.

They just set the Dinar arbitrarily , and left it with that.

It's obvious that the system needs an overhaul.

As the Dinar goes up, dependency on Dollar and Euros in Iraq, will be less and less.

-- December 1, 2006 12:20 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger wrote:

Sara,
The Saudis can't get in into Iraq without aligning it with the US.
My immediate gut feeling on that proposition is , that this is dead in the water.
It would put Saudi Sunni, and Iran Shiite , in straight collision course.
I think that anyone looking on this as any kind of solution to anything, would start shaking the head.
Anything this woulds solve, would be so much lesser than the problem this will create.....naaaa, I say, busted.

===

Roger;

I think the Saudis would come in only with US alignment, too.
But, I am also certain that the Saudi strategy is sound and would work,
if implemented, concerning taking down the oil price to impoverish Iran.
But it won't come to that.

However - it was the noble, selfless, moral, humanitarian compassion and care for others ...
the willlingness to do this very hard thing to resolve the situation and stop the
bloodletting.. which made me respond so positively to the proposal.

It is not a small thing to propose such a radical economic move, and it would work.

I was taken with the good and kind character it showed in the midst of a very nasty war..
the willing heart to sacrifice to help alleviate the suffering of others.

You just have to admire the man for it, and the Kingdom which gives birth to such thoughts.

It just confirms within me that with decent folks like him involved, and God's hand over it all
to make the good to prevail, there will be a good resolution in the end.

Sara.

-- December 1, 2006 2:54 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

Iraq have to live with one foreign power within their borders now, we have bases, and will probably not leave in a foreseeable future. Our immediate troop heavy involvement, might end one day or the other, but we're there for the long haul.

Because our military presence in Saudi Arabia was too much of a problem for the Saudis, we're not there no more.

We've got bases, in other parts of the region, on a contract basis with a number of smaller countries. Afghanistan and Iraq, it's our spoil, like it or not, call it what you want. Still we do contract.

The exact agreement between Iraq and the US , I'm not aware of the details, but I'm sure there are a couple of secret clauses in it. It's reasonable to assume that in the contract we must agree to be Iraq's weapon brother in case Iraq will be invaded, attacked or threatened.

I can just picture me the very awkward situation, Iraq in turmoil, we're sitting doing nothing, Iraqis unable to do anything, and the call will be passed to the Saudis to come over the Iraqi border en mass, and be the savior of the situation.

In the meanwhile as all our forces will be withdrawn to our bases in the deep desert, the Saudis, go into the central part of Iraq, and Sunnis as they are, will not start doing a wholesale number on the Shiite.

Ok now we have still another situation, as the Saudis have walked in, the Iranians will claim that they have as much legitimacy as the Saudis to walk in.

This is, with the understanding that the Iraqi government will willingly let the Saudis in, in order for the US not to breach any defense clause in the contract.

Sara, I can spin this a couple of pages, and every turn will pose so much problems that it's just not worth it.

I'm sure Sara, you saw a noble man proposing this, and with pure intention of helping suffering people in Iraq, well, yes, I can agree that he, as well as you and I, don't want this Iraqi madness to continue any longer, but I must say, that a solution that will worsen the situation will have as an effect even more blood than you are seeing now.

If your house is roach infested, you can burn down the house.

Your car muffler is broke and the car is intensively loud, you can crush the car.

Your kid is unruly, loud and making trouble, kill him.

In all three instances, you actually DID solve the original problem. But you did created something much much bigger instead.

Naa, on this Saudi, going into Iraq, thing, I'll pass.

-- December 1, 2006 3:36 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The link shows 6 critical bases for our military. One of them is in Iraq and is typical of several others in that Country.

Our President and Military vowed to take the fight to the enemy after 9/11 and these bases in their back yard are part of that plan.
(Whoops....did I say PLAN..that can't be because the idiots in the MSM say there was no plan...I must be crazy!)

We're also building the largest US Embassy in the world right in the heart of Baghdad. The locals call it "fortress America".

We have bases all over the Middle East and they will be there for awhile....at least until we win the war with the Islamic Militants.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3460

-- December 1, 2006 9:25 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara:

Please help me to understand your posts more.

When you BOLD portions of your posts, are you quoting or emphasizing your own thoughts? It looks so intersting, but the context is what I am losing because of the bold letter parts.

Thanks,
Carole

-- December 1, 2006 9:37 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

If you listen to the bitching and whining from the Liberals and MSM you get the impression we're losing the war and should retreat. As indicated below, a lot of planning is involved with how we're actually winning the war.
================================================================
The Pentagon says it has already reduced the number of US bases from 110 a year ago to a current total of around 75. But at the same time it is expanding a number of vast, highly defended bases, some in the desert away from large population areas. More than $280m (£160m) has already been spent on building up Al Asad air base, Balad air base, Camp Taji and Tallil air base, and the Bush administration has this year requested another $175m to enlarge them. These bases, which currently house more than 55,000 troops, have their own bus routes, pizza restaurants and supermarkets.
>
>
>
Some analysts believe the desire to establish a long-term US military presence in Iraq was always one of the reasons behind the 2003 invasion. Joseph Gerson, a historian of American military bases, said: "The Bush administration's intention is to have a long-term military presence in the region ... For a number of years the US has sought to use a number of means to make sure it dominates in the Middle East ... The Bush administration sees Iraq as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for its troops and bases for years to come.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article355178.ece

-- December 1, 2006 9:44 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Folks,

I am very interested in as many ideas you all have concerning a potential American soil problem of great magnitude.

LAst night my brother and I got into a very disturbing conversation. My brother is a clone in nature and thoughts and ideaology of Bill O'Reily.

They have both recently changed their views on our participation in the Iraq war. They both want our troops home to prepare to protect our land from the ideological invasion of the Muslims.

They have both come to the conclusions that there is no division between "Radical" and peace loving Muslims. They have both decided that this is an oxymoron to make distinction between the flawed assumption that there are 2 kinds of Muslims. To make statements that there is a distinction is just an act of trying to be politically correct.

Assuming that their thinking is on the right track, and somehow we all agree, because the evidence is mounting that the Muslims want tot take control of this country, which is part of their agenda to promote the cause of Islam, comes my BIG QUESTION:

NOW WHAT????? Now as Americans what do we do? We all see the problem facing us, we all feel the threat, so now what????

This discussion was prompted by the latest events of the detaining of the 9 imans on an airplane, the letter addressed to the American people by Iran's kook, and the Muslim Congressman who is refusing ttake his Oath of Office on the Bible, but instead wants to put his hand on the Q'uran. Coupled wiht the fact that my brother and I live in a growing presence of Muslims in our community. In our city and 3 other surrounding cities we have 4 Mosques. We are seeing more and more of veiled woman, which doesn't bother either of us. What bothers us is they have become so arrogant and invasive in the public place. They will push ahead of you in grocery stores, they will steal, right in front of everyone in the market place, they will open their car doors and bash tyour car and not even look back. Over the last 6 months, it has become more and more evident that they feel superior etc. etc.

SOoo, fast forwarding this situation to in a few months or years we see more and more of this type of " invasion", if you will------ then what?

We are both concerned that the idea of the Pope, the head of a religious denomination of millions across the entire globe has had litterally not obvious support by his own followers, in the sense of reacting or rejecting what the Muslims have done to him, is also very concerning. The lasck of upheaval and response from Catholics world wide have only fueled the activisim of the Muslims.

Okay, again my big question----Now What?

If we see that Bill and my brother are onto something that is correct. It doesn't stop with agreeing with them, it only provokes the BIG QUESTION--now what?

I have my own thoughts, but am interested in your thoughts.

DO we draw a curtain around us, and pretend that if we don't look at the problem, it will go away? Do we form our own coalitions and take to the streets in marches and demonstrations? DO we burn the Flag of Iran, Syria, and the Q'uran in the streets? DO we carry a baseball bat and when they ram our car doors bash out their windshield?

When they push us out of line at the store do we tear off their veils and spit in their faces?

Writing to our COngressmen will never be effective no because the COngress is now dominated by those who would have them take over anyway.

There are many great minds on this blog. But ideas without an action plan are impotent and meaningless. SO help me answer the big question---now what?

Carole

-- December 1, 2006 10:11 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

The Saudi's don't have to go into Iraq, just prevent Iran from having the money to continue their war efforts.
That was the strategy which would work. But as I said, it won't be necessary.

Carole;

I use bold for emphasis of main points.. in long documents (which I am always trying to shorten before posting and give the url below for further reading), one or two thoughts may be central to the whole. Such as the post yesterday where I bolded, "It may surprise conservatives, but CNN reporter Bob Franken alleged on Thursday’s "American Morning" that Democrats are eager to label Iraq a civil war in order to undercut U.S. support for remaining in the country." This is the topic sentence. I then bolded that which supports that statement in the direct quote supporting this topic sentence, "Franken: "But many experts say that designating this a civil war will undermine U.S. support even more, which might explain why so many Democrats are jumping on the bandwagon." The rest of the paragraph/content I left unbolded. Merely reading these two bold statements would allow you to grasp the main theme of the post. This one short paragraph was all I posted of the entire page of story (with url for further reading if you wished). Sorry if it is confusing to you.

Sara.

-- December 1, 2006 10:22 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

A Dream

Quite a while back I had a dream. I felt at the time it was prophetic, and over time I feel it has proven itself to be so. I wished to share it.

In the dream I saw a very strong King standing at the edge of a vast desert. With him were other strong Kings, each of them representing a nation of the Middle East. This King was the King over Iraq and around him stood very strong men in a war council. Out of the desert came a man who was an American. He was badly beaten and had paid a terrible cost in order to come to the King of Iraq. He brought in his hand a piece of paper which was the winning battle plan for the war. A large, muscular, strong black warrior came forward and took the paper from his hand, brought it and handed it to the King of Iraq. The American fell to the ground and died, succumbing to his wounds. The King of Iraq looked upon the American with contempt, spat down at his corpse and said, "Thus dies the King of Israel. May his carcass rot in the wilderness." The others all agreed, and a voice said, "They are all confederate against Israel."

===

This "King of Iraq" here was not Maliki or Jaafari or any man now alive directly. It is the Principalities, the powers, the rulers, the dominions.. the strongmen in the Spiritual realm which I saw here. (Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.) It is these spiritual hosts of wickedness that are confederate together in their purpose against us. It is significant that the American did truly have the battle plan which would win the war - but it would never be implemented because these strong Kings would never allow it to be. Maliki says he needs more time.. more time.. more time.. more power.. more power.. more power.. to deal with the militias, to deal with the economy, to make his army ready. I do not know how much of what he says is real. I do know that those spirits I saw will cause such human powers as the parliament of Iraq and Mr. Maliki to delay forever, and would never willingly implement the victorious plan which the United States continues to hand them.

Daniel had a visitation from an angel. The angel said he came in answer to his prayers, but that "the Prince of Persia" fought against him and delayed his coming with the answer to his prayer. This same "Prince of Persia" exists now in the spiritual realm and is likely one of these strong men I saw. These are the spirits which fight against us and the victory we are seeking.

Dan 10:12 Then he said to me, "Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words.

Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come."

Note the reference to the "Kings of Persia". These are not men that were alive at the time this was written, but it is speaking here of spiritual forces which rule over these kingdoms. These "Kings of Persia" may be some or all of the Kings which I saw. They are strong and they control the Middle East as they always have, and did in the days of Daniel. They have not given up their influence and power in that region. If I am right/heard right - as the Iraqi heads of government seek more power (in order to implement the US plan of victory, they say), they will take the victorious battle plan from the sacrificially bloody hand of the American but never implement it.

It was therefore my hope that a deadline which would prove their loyalty would appear, and drastic measures to implement the victorious strategy without the Iraqis would be implemented if Maliki and his government do not adhere to those deadlines. It is not that these men are untrue. The assurances they give may be honest, their intent true. But the spirits controlling the societies are not. You cannot reckon with a person in the grasp of the prince of the kingdom of Persia and expect that he will do your will and not act as their spiritual prince dictates. The world is run by the spiritual realm, not the physical. I do not believe they CAN implement the US victory strategy because of this handicap.. unless the US is able to, in prayer, bind these spiritual forces and force the victorious US strategy to be implemented - either through the Maliki government, OR through taking over with a "strongman" of their own - taking back more governmental power and using it to implement the changes which are necessary.

President Bush trusts Maliki. I don't trust the spirits I saw which are behind him (the "King of Iraq") .... Just something to keep in mind, for those who don't wish the deaths of our servicemen and women to be in vain, and their carcasses to rot in the wilderness.

Oh, one more thing.. these spirits, as in the days of Daniel, are "confederate against Israel". That which binds these spirits in hatred against the US and the victorious strategy in the hand of the American I saw coming out of the desert is the same age-old spiritual conflict which caused them to oppose Gabriel and Michael. When I awoke I cried out, "But You, Lord, are the King of Israel!" That may be so, but on earth, He has a body, doesn't He? The "Christian" West? The followers of that spiritual King? It really is two kingdoms in conflict... something to consider.. For those who have ears to hear.

Sara.

-- December 1, 2006 10:35 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq endorses investment law for most sectors except oil

BAGHDAD, Dec 1 (KUNA) -- The Iraqi Presidential Council endorsed Friday a law that would encourage local and international investments in the country.

The law would allow the Iraqi private sector and foreign investors to create a financial atmosphere that would protect and help investments projects to grow in the country.

According to the decision by the government, the law will not include investments in the petroleum and natural gas industry as well as the banking and insurance sectors.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=928151

-- December 1, 2006 11:04 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Isn't it "coincidental" that they passed the FI law here, but without the oil component.
And we all believe that component is necessary to get Iraq going..
(part of the victorious strategy?)
But, you see, they CAN'T agree on it in parliament and so vote it into law.
Wonder why? What prevents their agreement?
You know my idea on the subject.. and it isn't just sectarian differences,
but larger forces in play.. which won't let it happen.
Those forces KNOW we have the winning strategy.
They just won't let it happen.

Sara.

-- December 1, 2006 11:29 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Sara,

Thanks for the clarification. Reads much better for me now.

Sara, we have come full circle now on this discussion, and are back to what you and I believe to be the bigger picture.

Take all the dialogue, situations, plans, resources, intellect, reason, ambitions, dissapointments, perplexieites out of it and the big picture is one where God is still in control to manifest His will for HIs people.

I totally understand and agree with your thoughts and visionary intrepretations. I, unfortuantely loose sight of the big picture sometimes, and start looking for human answers, which of course I know are not really there.

Thank you for your sharing.You are very courageous as you know this will open up a big bucket of worms. Oh Well, so be it!

God Bless you for "staying the course"...and remaining faithful to the bigger picture, and actually the only one that counts or even makes sense in an otherwise sensless world situation, at this point....

Carole

-- December 1, 2006 12:07 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara.....

They keep dragging out the Hydrocarbon Law because Iran wants to play a big role in the Iraqi Oilfields and if that happens then the Kurds and Sunnis will get the short end of the stick.

Right now, because of their knowledge and expertise in the oil patch, the USA, Canada,Uk and Norway are in line to do most of the development via PSA (production sharing agreements) with the GOI.

If Maliki trys to swing it towards Iran....he really will be history.

Also,thanks for posting your dream...very interesting.

-- December 1, 2006 12:46 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

I just read 2 articles found on the Dinartrade.com
website, under "latest news"

First article(Nov 30) declares that Maliki enacted the INvestment law that was passed recently. The first 19 Articles were posted in English and then the other 5 Articles posted in Arabic....hmmmmmmmm?

Second article( NOv.29) refers to the visit between top Iraqi officials and Amedinejahd. They are stating that they had a very successful meeting where Iran was appealing to the Iraqi's concerning the oil contracts as bieng one where the Iranians share common cultural and religious affiliations that would cause their appeal for resovled realtionships to be taken to the heart of the Iraqi people.

_____________________________

SOunds like a desperate move, but one that may have been negotiated a long time ago, which would play into many people's suspicions that Maliki is controlled by the Iranians, and would explain much about the lack of progress towards a non-violent atmosphere in Iraqi.

If you can please read these articles and tell me what you think.

-- December 1, 2006 1:20 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Carole…..

Interesting articles. Everybody agreed on the Investment law because it will bring in outside money and is fairly neutral with all parties concerned.

The hydrocarbon law, HCL, deals with the golden goose of oil and that’s where high powered greed comes into play. Iran wants to control the oil and Government of Iraq so they can re-invent the Persian Empire. Iran has Al-Sadr on their side but Maliki is not going for the deal because he doesn’t trust the current nut case in charge of Iran. I believe Maliki will stick with his current position of fair and even distribution of the oil wealth just to keep from getting killed or ousted from power. The mechanics of the HCL have already been thrashed out and all they need to do is enact it. It’s scheduled to be signed before the end of the year.

I continue to believe that the coalition has control, by a wide margin, of the situation in Iraq. This could be impacted by the Democrats if they decide to play their hole card and pull funds from the war effort. Since they haven’t hesitated in the past to do or say anything to harm Bush and the Military, this is a real possibility.

-- December 1, 2006 2:26 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

Thanks for responding. You have really helped me. I get confused on all the intricate issues sometimes.

Last night I saw a blurp on the news showing Sen. Kerry. He was asked his response to the Pres. news conference after his meeting in Jordan.
Basically what Kerry said that Bush has left us no option but to seek impeachment proceedings to stop him from refusing to withdraw out troops immediately. Of course kerry states that this is the will of the people!

WHat a schmuck!

SO, the stage is set--I'm not a popcorn eater or a drinker, but given the choice in this case, I'll opt for a strong double scotch and soda!!! :)

Do you have a response for my "what next" question concerning Muslims in America?

-- December 1, 2006 3:01 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

In reply to the idea of Iran hitting our bases in Iraq. Yes, they would create some craters and hurt us. However, we do have bases that are out of the range of their missiles but put them in range of our bombers. They would get first strike but there would not be much time for bragging and I'm pretty sure we'd still be standing in this theatre. As Carl said, I don't see the wisdom in attacking us but we are dealing with a man not known for his sanity.

-- December 1, 2006 3:26 PM ∞

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valerio wrote:

Sara,
I have eyes to see, and ears to hear. Always remember that the real Israel is not a place, but it's a people. Do you know who the people of Israel are? We are the people of Israel, those who believe in the name of Yeshua (Jesus), direct descendants of the 10 tribes that are scattered abroad along with those who are graphed into the family. Keep this in mind when you consider what you wrote " confederate against Israel".

-- December 1, 2006 5:42 PM ∞

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Robert S wrote:

To All; What a great commentary you all have. I read with interest the comments concerning Kerry and the rest of the Democratic gang and the apparent lack of backbone. The recent comments concerning Muslims on our shores, I must agree that the "radical" and "peaceful" muslims by religeon are one and the same. At a local LOWE'S store there was a muslim woman in full garb (at least I think was a women) standing in the aisle's adjacent to the checkouts. I seen her at this location when I entered the store. Some 10 minutes later as I approached the checkouts she's still standing in the same spot. I had always considered myself to be nuetral but my impression was "Does she have an uzi under there?" My next impression was If I stood there with my face covered how long would it take for the customers to scatter and for security to show up. I don't have a clue for an answer but we better start looking before it's too late!

-- December 1, 2006 6:04 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

What is the correct stand concerning Muslims in America? I am scratching my head on this one.

Whether a Muslim is practicing a peaceful or radical form of his religion without a green card or at least a visa he/she/they should be deported toot sweet!

Those who are residing here because of educational pursuits at one of our institutions of higher learning can stay after passing a back ground check through interpol. Any suspicious activity while in America on a student visa, the result is immediate deportation.

For those who may be here illegally, the National Guard of each state should do an illegal immigrant sweep. While were deporting illegals from Central America lets deport the illegal Muslim.

Radical Islam involves putting all infidels to death. Therefore, it should be treated as a hateful religion. Its excercise should be treated as a hate crime. Evidence supporting this type of practice should be remedied via our court system.

Carole:

About John Kerry's call to impeach the President. In my view, this is Kerry's little man syndrom acting up again. I do not think those in his own party really take him seriously. If they do, there are not enough votes in congress to proceed with such an action.

All:

In my view, a HCL without a oil provision reflects the continued instability of the country. Malaki cannot open those oil fields up to radicals within and outside Iraq. Stability in Iraq equals a HCL that includes oil and ultimately the RV we have been waiting for.

All:

It appears to me the Roman Catholic Pope lacks conviction when apologizing to an Islamic cleric. Benedict's original statement about Islam being a violent religion is true. Yet political pressure forced him to acquiesce the truth for "peace". In my opinion, it appears Pope Benedict and Benedict Arnold have both committed treason. Benedict Arnold betrayed his country and Pope Benedict committed spritiual treason.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 1, 2006 7:02 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carole....

As to your "what next" question concerning Muslims in America.....

Right now it's not a big problem but as they gain larger numbers in the population they will be a big problem just as they are in the UK and France. I find it hard to trust someone who claims to have a right to kill me if I don't believe in their religion.

Of course we have something that trumps their Koran....it's called the Constitution which allows us to keep and bear arms and that will give us the necessary goodies to deal with any problems.

Sorry you can't get Jim Beam in your area and you have to sip on Scotch :)

-- December 1, 2006 7:22 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Rob N;

Awesome post, Rob. :)

I agree that they will not impeach President Bush. Any such action will fail.

As for the oil law only being implemented AFTER Iraq reaches stability, I think it comes down to the chicken and egg. Which comes first - the stability or the economic help the Iraqis need? I believe that if you seek stability first you are putting the cart before the horse.. expecting blood from a rock. In other words, you cannot create the conditions which make for peace without a prospering economy. Experts say that the military alone cannot win Iraq. I agree. It takes the RV and a strong boost in the economy. An article today I read says it well:

It follows that the only viable road for Washington to pursue right now in the Middle East is to back leaders who are at least prepared to embrace the Chinese model of "prosperity now, freedom later." The Arab world remains largely unemployed, under-educated and destitute. That is what inspires its religious fanaticism, that is what feeds Europe's festering slums, and that is today's No. 1 cause of global instability.

Putting the Arab world to work and helping it build more kindergartens, schools, colleges, highways, railroads, hospitals, factories, banks, malls and airports is currently America's most practical option for long-term impact in the Middle East.

In due course, such a policy will also deliver tolerance, democracy and peace.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881788141&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The only thing that will save Iraq is prosperity.. that means the RV, in my opinion.
The winning strategy is the RV... this current castrated FI Law will never win.
Without the RV we are impotent to deliver tolerance, democracy or peace.
Any delays are only counterproductive - no matter how diplomatically peddled.
I agree, "Malaki cannot open those oil fields up to radicals within and outside Iraq."
So simply exclude those who are radicals from investing.
Who says they have to be included and why?
Are we being "fair" in war? I thought war was war.. not being fair.
General George S. Patton would have agreed - and he implemented winning strategy -
even when "unfair".

Robert S;

VERY interesting, as your story relates directly to our (communal) safety both in the dress being similar to a bandit, and how the clothes can hide explosive belts or armaments.

valerio;

Isa 63:16 Doubtless You are our Father, though Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O Lord, are our Father; Our Redeemer; Your name is from everlasting.

Sara.

-- December 1, 2006 8:08 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

The Truth About Iraq
Friday, December 01, 2006
By Bill O'Reilly - Fox News

First of all, it doesn't matter whether there is a civil war there — that's a media-driven situation. What does matter is if the USA can control the situation in Iraq or whether the country is too far gone into the chaos zone.

IF the Bush administration has failed there, here are the consequences for you:

One, Iran will increase its power and begin to dominate the world's oil flow. That means, if Iran tells Gulf Arab nations to charge $100 a barrel, they better do it or risk Iran undermining them with terrorism. And Saudi Arabia will be the No. 1 target. All Americans will be at Iran's mercy then when it comes to oil. Think about that.

No. 2, Al Qaeda would also benefit. It would proclaim a great victory over America and set up shop inside of Iraq, working out a lose agreement with Iran. Al Qaeda terrorists then would have another sanctuary, like Afghanistan before we took out the Taliban.

No. 3, no one could stop Iran from getting nukes because of the oil threat. So they develop doomsday weapons and give them to whomever.

So you can see that allowing Iraq to go under would be a catastrophe for the world.

Back here, we have a press that is invested in seeing that President Bush is humiliated in Iraq. They may not be rooting for an American defeat, but most are certainly anti-war and anti-Bush.

And then there are those Americans who dislike the president so much they want the USA to lose?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

All right, so there you have it: A hostile American and world media, an American public that has lost faith in the war and some who are even rooting for a defeat, and then, the Iraqi people who will not step up and stop the madness they see every day.

God help us. And I mean that literally.

And that's The Memo.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,233598,00.html

-- December 1, 2006 8:21 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Okie,

Thanks for your response.

I have a funny story to share with you about Jim Beam. If I can do it without throwing up.

ABout 41 years ago, I was way overdue with my first daughter, Maureen.

I was miserable, and just wanted the pregancy to be done and have my baby .

SOmeone had given me a bottle of Jim Beam when I graduated from college. I remembered where it was and decided that if I could just relax, mnaybe I would go into labor.

My husband was at work( he worked nights).

I poured myself a glass of Jim Beam, held my nose and downed it!!!

Within a short time, I was drunk!! My husband, who was the original prohibitionist), called to check on me. My speech was slurred, but somehow managed to tell him I was spending the night with Jim Beam.

He was furious and said he was coming home immediately and I better tell that so and so to get out of his house.

I remember laughing but not able to put my thoughts together to explain---I was truly looped.

My Husband got home to find me with my head in the toilet, and he realized then who Jim Beam was. He called the doctor and I was rushed to the ER. ON the way I went into labor, Maureen was born 8 hours later and had colic and the hiccups for 3 months.

I have never lived down that event. Of course now I know that was a pretty stupid thing to do. And thank God no one was harmed.

But to this day, I get nauseated when I even think of the name Jim Beam!!

-- December 1, 2006 8:35 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq May Control North Within Six Months, Mixon Says

By Robin Stringer

Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Iraqi forces will be capable of taking over security in the country's northern provinces in three to six months, the commander of the U.S.-led division in the area said.

The four divisions of Iraq's army in the area will be under Iraqi command by February 2007, Multi-National Division-north commander Major General Benjamin Mixon today told a Baghdad news conference from a base outside Tikrit via video link.

A total of 35 out of 40 Iraqi battalions in the six northern provinces conduct operations with minimal coalition support, Mixon said, up from 20 last May. ``I expect that over the next three to six months they will assume full responsibility for security of Iraq's people,'' Mixon said.

The U.S.-led Multi-National Division-north covers the cities of Balad, Kirkuk, Mosul and Samarra.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTva82cS9oc0&refer=worldwide

-- December 1, 2006 8:36 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

We can see that a conflict is sharpening up in Iraq.

There might very well come to another scenario, where the factions, continue to talk, talk and talk, and Malaki manages to hold off Bush, and the shooting and insurgency, will slowly as the months goes by, fizzle out, car bombs, will get less and less, and finally somewhere they figure out that it's better to peacefully live together.

It's just another possibility.

-- December 1, 2006 10:07 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Exclusive: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militias
By JONATHAN KARL AND MARTIN CLANCY

WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.

This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.

Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.

Evidence is mounting, too, that the most powerful militia in Iraq, Moktada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, is receiving training support from the Iranian-backed terrorists of Hezbollah.

Two senior U.S. defense officials confirmed to ABC News earlier reports that fighters from the Mahdi army have traveled to Lebanon to receive training from Hezbollah.

U.S. intelligence officials believe the number of Al-Sadr's Mahdi army now includes 40,000 fighters, making it an especially formidable force.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=2688501

-- December 1, 2006 10:19 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Turtle & Panhandler.......

I heard a big battle was on in Baghdad.....any news from your location?

-- December 1, 2006 10:30 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

What does this mean? From the aol home page.

Administration May Abandon Plan to Unify Iraq
By ANNE GEARAN, AP

WASHINGTON (Dec. 2) - The Bush administration is re-evaluating its efforts to unite Iraq's fractious sectarian and political factions in an attempt to preserve U.S. options in Iraq no matter what happens, officials familiar with an internal administration review of Iraq policy said Friday.

Any thoughts? Is this just MSM bull?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 2, 2006 1:03 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Dinars might go straight to Forex instead of an RV.

Iraq is financially working on a very unique, actually without precedent program, set by IMF for 15 moths, where Iraq is suppose to set up a number of criterion, and at the same time be more or less debt free.

The press release was on the 23rd of Dec, 2005, and counts for 15 months, so that will place the completion of the program about end of Mars, in 2007.

Part of the criteria is the function of the CBI.

A quote straight form the articles read : -".....The Central Bank of Iraq aims to implement modern supervising frameworks, facilitate the proper functioning of foreign exchange and money markets...."

An RV is in itself not a "proper functioning of foreign exchange" , an RV is an ARTIFICIAL MANIPULATION of the money market.

My bet is more likely, that the RV is skipped, and the Dinar is starting to be freely traded.

If the Dinar is freely traded, probably a couple of weeks of unstable trading will occur, before it is settling in it's right range.

The Forex is many many times bigger market than the NASDAQ, and except for banks, private investors, and states, it can be assumed that the vast majority of money traders, at the time of the Dinars release, will have NO Dinars.

So, in order to trade, they have to HAVE Dinars first, so the first Dinars out there will most probably be BUY offers, shooting up the value.

I would say it will stabilize around 10 cents, but if it goes higher I will dance.

It's normal grow rate will start from the stabilization point. Then it's just a matter how long you want to wait, for it's long term growth in value.

Cash out is optional at any point of satisfaction.

-- December 2, 2006 1:08 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

The war against radical Islam will continue after President Bush leaves office.
Some are looking at the issues and starting to wage war against this new threat as once we did Communism.

===

A new movement against radical Islam?
Modeled after anti-Communist efforts, activists plot strategy

WASHINGTON – Two conservative activists deeply involved in the anti-communism movement of the past are planning a broad strategy of re-creating those efforts in a new mass movement to fight radical Islam... the creation of an "Anti-Islamofascism Movement."

"One cannot write the history of the Cold War without acknowledging the key role played by the American Anti-Communist Movement," they write in a memo to conservative leaders. "It was a broad movement involving many different organizations that, for decades, kept its focus on the defeat of the Soviet Empire. And it succeeded."

"But we don't seem to be prepared for this war," they write. "Unlike the movement created during the Cold War, there doesn't seem to be much of an infrastructure to combat Islamofascism."

The agenda for such a movement should include the following activities and efforts, they say:

- investigate radical mosques

- support anti-Islamofascist freedom fighters

- thwart attempts to impose Sharia law

- form an anti-Islamofascist publishing network

- create an anti-Islamofascist portal on the Internet

- establish an anti-Islamofascist speakers bureau

- wage an ideological assault on Islamofascism

- support efforts to evangelize Muslims in Europe and the Middle East

- create a global anti-Islamofascist coalition

- reframe the illegal immigration issue as one of national security

- end dependence on foreign oil that's funding the Islamofascists.

Planning meetings through regular teleconferencing are already underway. There is a new secure Internet forum where ideas are being exchanged. There is also an e-mail address where those interested in the "movement" can make their intention known – 910@yahoogroups.com.

"This needs to be done in order to preserve both America and Western Civilization," Wheeler and Baldwin say. "Without the anti-Communist movement, it's likely we would still be in the midst of the Cold War today. Wise men and women rose up to the challenge and created a movement that was very much opposed by the existing political and media establishment. But we won."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53190

-- December 2, 2006 1:44 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

I'll take it. It sounds like an improvement to the fortunes of the Dinar to me - with the resulting improvement in the lives of the Iraqi people and their country's prosperity (causing a decline in terrorism as people choose to have jobs not guns) - and it will be good for us, too. :)

Rob N;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061202/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq

-- December 2, 2006 2:34 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Sara,

Thanks for your last posting. I think it may answer my question of "WHat Next?"

It makes sense to me that an activist movement is very necessary. If this turns out to be like the
anti- communism activist movement, it could snowball. ANd I think that in this case not only for our country but internationally it will be a good and hopefully effective thing.

Thanks again for the info. I will follow up.

Robert S.

Good posting. I think you get the picture too.

Are you new here? If so welcome!

-- December 2, 2006 3:24 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hold on, I disagree with Islam, and dislike the radical parts of it, it must be remembered that the very very vast majorities of Islam is not practiced even in Arab countries.

By bad culture, clan culture and a very long protection of their ways, the problem is mostly coming from Arabian, Persian countries.

That's where you see extremist emanating from, no other religions allowed, very low level of human rights, and arrogance in knowledge, and tolerance of other ways of thinking.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and some smaller states around the Gulf. Thats where the problem is emanating from.

Big areas of Asia, Europe, Africa is Islamic. An problem there, is almost without exception imported from the Arab states mentioned.

The majorities of Muslims do not live in Arab countries, in most of the other countries, Church bells as well as Minarets are accepted, and most are Muslims about as much as a coffee shop Catholic.

This Communist hunt, or Islam hunt suggested here, is not really the way to go.

Once we have hunted down every Communist, ok, then we hunt down every Muslim, once that is done, why not just start to extend the list, Catholics? Hey why not, and why not do something about the Jehovah's Witness at the same time, they always wake you up early on Sunday when you want to sleep anyway, and want to come in and save your soul, so lets include those as well.

The Mormons are a given, put those on the list, while we are on it, just ad anything you wish on the list.

Remember that somewhere there, the one we will come after, is YOU.

But there will be no one left to stand up for you when that time comes, because you have already got those.

-- December 2, 2006 6:52 AM ∞

---

Robert S wrote:

Thanks for the welcome Carole and others. I posted a year or so ago and have learned much since. I thoroughly enjoy the viewpoints and first hand information from all involved. Some have enlightened some have enraged but I always welcome the insight. It’s difficult to read and watch MSM with any conviction and usually able to see through the propaganda. It does bother me that they can freely report such inaccuracies and that by and large so many people believe and take it as the gospel.

To the men and women in harm’s way in Iraq. I appreciate what you are doing to help keep us in a safe in a world gone mad. I was a child in the 60’s and grew up influenced by the nuclear threat. And that was with some fairly reasonable governments at the button. Now with the availability of weapons (WMD and conventional) to groups of radicals whom have been in a holy war for thousands of years makes the threat from Russia seem pretty tame in comparison. At least during the cold war we pretty knew our enemy.

I had read in yesterday’s newspaper that NBC has made it official that the war in Iraq is a Civil War. I never knew the network had that kind of power and wonder if the other networks are in agreement and will follow NBC’s lead or make their own declarations. I also wonder if Iraq is aware of this revelation.

In the past year of reading post on this forum it has come to my attention that some of these posts should go mainstream. Has anyone considered sending in snip-lets to their local leaders, letter’s to the editors, local representatives, etc…? Do I have anybody’s permission to use some posts in doing just that here locally (Pensacola, Florida)? Of course full credit would go to the author as quoted.

I will post occasionally when I feel I have something relevant to say or pass along. Most of you with your knowledge of the current issues blow me away.

Robert S

-- December 2, 2006 10:03 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Roger....

Good points about the Dinar going directly to FOREX. It would be a good way to bring it to the market and find out where it settles in on value for a beginning price. You say 10 cents, I think 28 cents....for sure, I would be happy with either one. The FOREX dealers I've known operate on the theory of "buy on rumors and sell on facts"....sounds like what we do here at T&B.

Now that the final stamp is on the FIL and the HCL scheduled before year end...I think things are moving along at a good pace. I'm not sure why they pulled the Banking sector out of the FIL at the last minute but I hope they get it back on schedule within a few weeks.

-- December 2, 2006 10:53 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Robert S.

This is Internet, and like talking to a public crowd, anyone that posts anything, is doing it publicly, with the intention to be heard by as many as possible. The poster is not doing profit or have his/her livelihood depending on it.

A blog is no more than a public forum.

Once a private person have posted something, and it appears on YOUR computer, it's yours to do with whatever you like.

Articles from a bona fide newspaper might have copyrights to it, but the normal practice in the news world is to freely quote and copy articles.

Books, movies and DVDs is where the tough stuff is, you can quote about as freely as an article, any part of it, but you cant copy the whole work and sell it commercially.

-- December 2, 2006 1:08 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,
Yes the FIL is signed, but the last I heard was that there was only ONE major hurdle left on the HCL, whatever that means. However, it's all coming together nicely, cant tell about the situation with the banking industry. This is a sector that have been coming along exceptionally well.

As it's a backbone in any states economic future, and it's inherently a very complex industry (compared with potato growing, there is a bit more in it to understand), it might very well have been pulled out because big taxation loopholes might have occurred if it's fit into the FIL. I just don't know, but the fact that foreign banks can establish themself in Iraq is already a fact.

Probably an oil change, new filters and spark plugs.

-- December 2, 2006 1:22 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

If...
the MSM were all septic tanks...they would need pumping as 99% of them are full of it...

-- December 2, 2006 1:47 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

MSM = Manure Spreading Machine

-- December 2, 2006 4:12 PM ∞

---

Turtle wrote:

Okie: There appear ot be some big missions running around Baghdad but most of what I've heard has been against Sunni insurgents and Al-Qaeda. I've heard some very positive news over the past weeks about advances we've made against Al-Qaeda and I'm really hoping this ball keeps rolling. Based on what I was told a few weeks ago, it should be the beginning of some major defeats for them in Iraq.

-- December 2, 2006 4:27 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Turtle,

News have been starting to drop in on actions. Car bombs are still the headlines, and this is smaller side articles, but I start reading about actions, raids an operations more often now.

-- December 2, 2006 7:24 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

In a translated article from Almadapaper (Arabian, you can get an automatic English translation using Google), official Central Bank of Iraq, is denying that there is a 1000 to 1 goal to reach, when doing this Dinar to Dollar slow revaluation.

The data originated from an erroneous article written and sent over local satellite stations over Iraq.

According to the correction article, the CBI have no end goal in sight, but will continue as long as needed.

So this will pose the interesting question what "as needed" means, if the intention is to purely take care of the inflation, this is a short program, that will end about the same time as the interest rate will drop. Right now the interest rate is 16%.

If this is a program to continue, in an effort to steady rise the Dinar, then this will continue indefinitely, until either an RV or the Dinar is traded freely on the market.

-- December 2, 2006 8:04 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Sunday Exchange Rate

Roger, Thanks for the definition of MSM.

Other than Roger's post, not much Dinar news out there.

In other news from the non MSM, page 4

The Mobile Home Residents Association, in an effort to uprgrade the image of those who live in trailers has officially asked Britney and Paris to move out.

Britney had a nice one with log cabin exterior look. I think the real problem is that she removed the skirting and refused to put it back on. Those who know about trailers understand that removing the skirting exposes the plumbing. Mobile Home parks have their standards.

For those concerned - this is NOT likely to impact the exchange rate program at the CBI

Good Day!

Announcement No.(817)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 817 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Sunday 2006 / 12/ 3 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 3 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1433 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1431 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 7.000.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 1.000.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 7.000.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 1.000.000 -----

-- December 3, 2006 8:11 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Looks like they're finally doing some heavy duty negotiating on the oil situation. I read somewhere that the hydro carbon law (HCL) might be signed off within two weeks...if that's true it's about time!!
==============================================================================================================

Iraqi govt agrees on Kurds'' budget, electricity and oil demands

POL-IRAQ-KURDISTAN
Iraqi govt agrees on Kurds' budget, electricity and oil demands

IRBIL, Dec 3 (KUNA) -- The Iraqi government has agreed on most Kurdish demands including returning USD 482 million to Kurdistan, increasing the region's stake in the national electricity network and holding a series of talks on the issue of oil investments, a Kurdish official said Sunday.

The minister of works and construction in Kurdistan Emad Ahmed told reporters that following talks with a Kurdish delegation, the Iraqi government has agreed to return to the regional government the amount of USD 482 million, which was earned from differences of oil selling prices in international markets.

In regards to the extreme power shortage in Kurdistan, Ahmed said the delegation met with Iraqi deputy premier Barham Saleh and the two sides agreed to increase the region's stake in the country's electricity network and to provide skilled engineers to supervise power stations.

Ahmed said the delegation would hold a series of talks with the Iraqi oil ministry and the central bank to place a new law on oil that would fulfill the demands of the Kurds regarding the crucial oil investment issue.

The oil issue has triggered disputes between Iraq's central and Kurdish governments where the former insists on controlling natural and mineral resources while the latter demands that resources in its territories remain under its control according to the Iraqi constitution.

The Kurds have prepared several issues to be discussed with the central government including the northern region's stake in the federal budget, oil laws in Kurdistan and the status of Kirkuk, claimed by the Kurds.(end) sbr.

-- December 3, 2006 11:32 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

Seems like the HCL is on track then, earlier articles predicted it to be done around this Christmas, or New Year. They (the Iraqis) can't afford to dally around with this one, it's their backbone.

On top of it all, it's our ticket as well.

Chris,

Britney and Paris is two mouthfull.

-- December 3, 2006 2:36 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.dinartrade.com

Japan ready to invest oilfields in Nassirya

Japan has expressed its readiness for investing in Nassriya oilfields and establishing genetic refinery in the city while the ministry of oil had prepared a plan to develop al-Basra refinery and establishing a floating oil port after investing the Japanese available loan which reach to $3,5 billions to develop the Iraqi oil sector, the Japanese government announced that it had offered to Iraq.An official source at the oil ministry stated that Japan is serious in offering support to oil sector through investment, developing oil fields in Nassirya and build a genetic refinery in the city to provide the oil derivatives and increase the volume of crude oil in the province.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 3, 2006 3:10 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Before Forex trading begins, the U.S. and Iraqi forces must quell the continued insurgency. Malaki must assert himself and the national reconciliation talks with the three groups inside the country.

Once political and ethnic stability occurs oil can begin to flow and the currency can begin trading on the Forex market.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 3, 2006 3:14 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Rob N,

I don't think necessarily one thing have to be completed before the other starts.

The hot spots is not where the oil in general is, and development of those fields will most likely start at the same time as they are cutting each others heads off in Baghdad.

There might be a lot of unknown fields, but the biggest fields are in the north and south, the northern ones are already under development, the Kurds might have some issues to straighten out with the federal Govt, in Baghdad as to the validity of the contracts they have signed, but it's doubtful they will nullify them, instead they will work out something.

For general investments in the country, I'm with you, the security situation needs to be solved, electricity needs to be there, as well as water, and you must be able to take your kids on a stroll without risking a drive by.

I do believe that the oil industry is a very special industry, that will not go with the security situation in Baghdad, as it is used with unstable conditions, and it's activities are located out in the desert, where they can act pretty much in a secure environment.

Fortunately, this industry is also the , without comparison, most important one for Iraq to get going.

Most other industries are running right now in a limp mode, and a lot of the industrial base is because of the insurgency, completely destroyed. Cafe shops, clothes shops, retail and everything that comes with it, is now a desert. Places in Baghdad looks like ghost towns.

THAT part is gone, and need the security situation in hand before they can go back to a normal life.

It's doubtful that it will be like before, many are just leaving Baghdad, they are doing it in thousands, and big flocks of Iraqis are now either in the north, or Jordan or any other place where they can find refugee.

In a sense I feel betrayed by the current Iraqi regime, we are there in big force, as a guarantee for security. Then we have no security, and by orders and regulations from the Iraqi regime, we are sitting doing nothing, while the whole Baghdad area is "Shiite-ized", and right under our nose, thousands of people have to flee from their homes, deprived from their work, and living under life threats, while militias are setting up "check points" , have had them for months, where people are selected out for execution, in the same manners as the Nazis used to run old Europe.

Criminal individuals are running around being judge, jury and executioner, with a laugh on their face, go about their daily execution business, and then have lunch, don't think twice about it.

Those are fascist, no more no less. The Iraqi Gov have all the sympathies towards the Shiite's, and allowes this ethnic cleansing to go about, and we are sitting here in the USA and say, "lets get out".

"In the meanwhile we have to be there until the work is done."

Well the work being done, is ethnic cleansing, murder, burning, beheading, ambushes, religious oppression, ethnic relocation, destroying of business, and a lot lot more.

If some small, action is being done, we cheer, -"hurray, they took four insurgents, in a house".

I'm afraid that we are being used, and duped to passively sit and being guarantees for one of the most dramatic ethnic cleansing that have been taking place for a long long time.

-- December 3, 2006 5:11 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Sara.....

You reported the false reporting awhile back.....looks like the GOI has ramped it up to the next level.
==========================================================================================================

Iraq Gov. Sets up Media Monitor After AP Uses Bogus Source
Posted by Greg Sheffield on December 2, 2006 - 14:33.
The Iraq government has set up an agency to monitor false news coming out of Iraq. After the Associated Press used a government source that doesn't exist, the government wants to make sure the AP and other media outlets cannot get away with similar fraudulent activity. Reports the UK Guardian.

Iraq's interior ministry has formed a press monitoring unit in response to what it described as "fabricated and false news" that misrepresents the country's security situation.

Singling out the Associated Press for criticism, spokesman Brigadier General Abdul-Karim Khalaf said yesterday that dedicated unit would monitor news coverage and even initiate legal action if journalists do not correct stories it believes to be incorrect.

"Fabricated and false news hurts and gives the Iraqis a wrong picture that the security situation is very bad, when the facts are totally different," he said.

He added that the media should consult the ministry's large public relations department staff for "real, true news".

Brig Gen Khalaf referred to an AP story last week describing an attack on a mosque in north-west Baghdad in which six Sunni Muslims were burnt to death.

He said the ministry said it had no records of a Captain Jamil Hussein who had been quoted in the story, and that someone dressed in the ministry's uniform may have given a false name to the reporter in exchange for money.

He also said the ministry had found no evidence of the attack or witnesses.

The ministry' was backed up by the public affairs department of the US military who demanded that the AP's story be retracted.

-- December 3, 2006 7:34 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

I believe Glen Beck on CNN put light on this.

However, if a nasty story hit the frontlines, and a small detraction is made on page twelve three weeks later, it doesnt matter.

-- December 3, 2006 8:27 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Some figures,

When the appreciation in the Dinar value started last month, it was a slow rise, but still, it is noticable.

Every million Dinars you are sitting on have gone up approx 17 Dollars.

They seem right now to go in the same pace, so you can easily calculate a rise of 17 bucks every month for every million.

If you sit on 10 million, you have seen a 170 Dollar value increase
20 is a 340 Dollar increase and so on.

Thats the current value increase pace, for the rest, do you own math on what you are sitting on, and you should pretty much be able to predict your future value, if everything else stays the same.

-- December 3, 2006 10:32 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

When was the last time Jehovah Witness orCatholic or any other group you mentioned invaded the US and killed thousands of innocent people? or cut heads off for not converting to thier theology, or held the wolrd at bay with terriosm? Or have as an agenda to wipe Israel off the face of the eaqrth> or look forward to the day the day when the US is a heap of ashes, and their falg angs over the White House?

This is no time for pacificity.

DOn't be like the Iraqis who want freedom adn peace but are not willing to fight for it.

Carole

-- December 3, 2006 11:21 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Again, the very vast majority of Muslims are not hot headed extremists, the vast majority doesn't even live where this Islamofascism is professed.

I'm not a Muslim, and I can assume you are not one either, so both of us doesn't agree with that teaching.

That makes Muslims,...not us.

Now, I'm sure with your knowledge of the Bible, you can come up with punishments for different crimes, stated in the Bible. I'm sure you can come up with so many death sentences that the Shari law will seem like children's play.

Once we were living in a culture where we actually, to the letter, followed the Biblical interpretation of justice.

Some backwards tribes societies, in the Arab and Persia countries , are reading their book of rules as, per the word, as Christians did in the past, and tries to push their view on others, with intimidation, murder and terrorism, as Christians did in the past.

The amount of Muslims is well over a BILLION, and is not from Persia, or an Arab countries.

Religious intolerance is mostly originating from the Persian or Arabian countries, most other disturbances, in Muslim countries around the world, is coming FROM Persia and the Arab countries.

So, you can be a Muslim or whatever, and live a peaceful and productive life.

However, according to the tribal society in Persia, and some Arab countries, you can not do that.

Now, we are suppose to hunt down ALL Muslims???

I hope you are able to see that there is a difference between ALL Muslims, and SOME Muslims.

Open up a phone book and look under "churches" and you will find page after page of different Christian churches, Protestant, Lutheran, Catholics, Baptist, you name it, and they're all of them reading from the same book.

If a hunt for ANY Muslim is in order, then it is in order as well, to tattoo a mark on the forehead on ANY Christian, because of that David Koresh and his followers was using under aged children for sex.

Altar boys have been in a long standing danger also, so that only confirms that we have to hunt down "The Christians".

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

Your fathers sins, is not yours, as well as your brother, sister or neighbours sins. They have to be responsible for their own deeds, assigning responsibility as a generality to a group, is so easy, even though only SOME is guilty.

We have had this discussion before, when you proposed the "Nuke them all" concept.

Now it's "hunt them down". (To protect "us")

Same shit, different wrapping.

-- December 4, 2006 1:11 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Monday Exchange rate

Announcement No.(818)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 818 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Monday 2006 / 12/ 4 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 7 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1430 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1428 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 6.500.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 1.930.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 6.500.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 1.930.000

-- December 4, 2006 4:36 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

All Muslims swear by the Koran. They will kill you in the name of Allah. Their Imams brainwash them in the Mosques to kill Westerners. They started a war with the Western World over 20 years ago and that war is still going on.

When it comes down to "kill or be Killed" I would much rather the Muslims die instead of me. Anyway, it makes sense to me!
===============================================================================

Quotes from Koran, Instructions to Hate (#83103)
by S Misra on March 18, 2006 at 2:44 AM
From The Holy Koran

IV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

IV.92: And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave , and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a covenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.

IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.

IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.

VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's.

"There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind."

-- Ibn Warraq, executive director of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society

-- December 4, 2006 10:52 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Okie,

Thank you for your post,and I certainly agree with you.

I agree with Roger that we should not take on the "nuke them all" mentality. However, if the radical Islamofascist movement is taking bedrock in our nation then we must address it with every bit of energy we have. Because we would stand a very good chance of becoming another France or UK.

The movement in this country seems to be gaining momentum. They are having children left and right. They are using our liberal courts to their advantage.

Have you noticed that Rogers extreme negative feelings toward Christians becomes so obvious? He will take up with any opposing group and come up with extreme examples to try to prove his point. But his prejudices can not be veiled.

It is true that in the bible there are many instances ( old Testament) where God demanded that every man women and child be killed.

These used to bother me for some time. Until I realized that God knew that those whose death He was demanding was because HE knew that these tribes would always worship idols and would always be on the march to destroy Israel. He knew that to allow the continued existance, given their utter disobedience would stand in the way of His soverign will.

There is an irrefutable difference between Islam and most of the other religions of the world.

While I don't ascribe or believe in other religions like Jehovah Witness and Mormons, etc. ( because they deny the Diety of Christ), they are still faiths that promote goodwill toward all mankind.They have missionaries all over the world. They are benevolent to the needy and reach out hands of fellowship in societies all over this globe.

Even within their own circles, those who have fallen away are not killed, but rather nutured and ministered to in order to bring them back into the fold.

Anyone who does not see the vast difference between Muslims and other religions, is because they don't want to, or because they are blinded by their own inner prejudices and have allowed their minds to expel reason.

OR--- they have an ignorance that can not be reversed. In the case of Roger, we know that he is not a man known for ignorance. He is very bright, but stuck in his own very obvious prejudices, and so allows himself to fall outside of the circle of reason and thus shuts down discussions that attempt to identify problems which are necessary to look for solutions. Radical solutions or otherwise.

And by the way, expect Carl to put an amen! to anything that Roger says.

I have some people in my own circles who think as they do, and you just have to go around them and not allow them to shut down discussion or thoughts or plans.

Unfortunately, the group misses out, because they would provide some very good resources of opinion and information. Bu none-the -less, agreed with or not, involved or not, they will be the benefactors or victims of what ever outcomes addressing the Anti-Islamofascist movements in this country and world-wide provide.

We all will!!

Carole

-- December 4, 2006 12:31 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here is an interesting article from www.iraqiupdates.com. This should gives us all hope for Iraq's future. I wish the MSM would report the progress taking place in the article below.

Oil Infrastructure Reconstruction on Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

04 December 2006 (News Blaze)
Since Saddam Hussein's fall in April 2003, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has worked hard to return Iraq's oil industry to levels of production it once enjoyed. The work is nearing completion.
Officials from USACE's Gulf Region Division met Saturday with members of the media to discuss progress on several oil rehabilitation projects throughout Iraq.

"Our mission is to serve the people of Iraq by repairing, rebuilding and enhancing existing oil system components throughout the country to restore oil production capacity to pre-war levels," said Navy Capt. Rich Fritzley, GRD's sector lead for oil.

The total oil industry reconstruction program has several goals before the Corps of Engineers will be satisfied their work is complete, Fritzley said. The first goal is to increase crude oil production capacity to 3 million barrels per day. Other goals are to increase natural gas production capacity to 800 million standard cubic feet per day and to increase cooking gas production to 3,000 tons per day.

"Our budget for all projects is just over $1.7 billion, and we've spent $1.2 billion as of November," Fritzley said. "I feel very confident that when we finish this project in May 2007, we will have achieved our goals."

GRD's oil reconstruction program is comprised of 186 individual reconstruction projects, Fritzley said. Of that number, 96 have been completed. The remaining 90 projects are set to be finished by May.

Reconstruction projects have already had a giant impact on Iraq's oil industry, Fritzley said. As of last month, he explained, crude oil capacity is only 500,000 barrels per day below its goal of 3 million per day. Natural gas capacity is 200 standard cubic feet per day off of its goal of 800 standard cubic feet. Cooking gas production is still 1,600 tons per day behind its production goal of 3,000 tons.

Fritzley told reporters the production shortfalls, especially concerning cooking gas, would be remedied as more and more production facilities are rehabilitated and come on-line.

The effort to boost cooking oil production to 3,000 tons per day is itself a $136 million project that has been under way since February. It is scheduled for completion in May, but Iraqi citizens should see more cooking oil coming their way over the next few months, Fritzley said.

Fritzley described some of the key projects that will continue to get Iraq's oil industry up and running.

One of them is a $71 million project to install pipelines across the Tigris River, plus three canal crossings. The project was completed in June.

"Completion of this project was critical to restoring Iraq's oil export capacity, as well as helping to ensure continuity of crude oil supply to national refineries," Fritzley said.

Other key projects include rehabilitating oil wells, refurbishment of the oil export terminal near Basrah, repairing gas oil separation plants, compressor stations, water injection facilities and training oil workers.

Source: Multi-National Force-Iraq

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 4, 2006 12:56 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thought I would put in my two cents worth on the debate about Islamofascists.

I see it as no different than looking at the Germans and the Fascist Nazis. We were not prejudiced against all Germans during WW2... just the fascists. That is why the term has been coined of Isamofascists - emphasis on FASCISTS - in addressing this problem. We cannot ignore the threat these radical extremists are posing to us. We cannot be like ostriches and bury our heads in the sand or sing "Kumbaya". We need to work within the real stakes: http://www.gop.com/Multimedia/MediaPlayer.aspx?ID=1136&TypeID=2 We must recognise and address the threat of the extremist fascists.. without endicting all the Islamics - just as the world had to deal with the fascist Germans without attacking all the Germans (as far as was possible).

At the END of WW2, we were able to make friends with the Germans who were left afer we defeated the Fascist Nazis. I believe we can make peace with the moderate Islamics, in spite of the quoted Koranic words because the moderates have interpretations which do not require the fascist literal application of those words or they manage to weigh the two opposite opinions (BOTH expressed in the Koran) and feel that there are other peaceful words which supercede the murderous ones. I don't care how they come to a sane and normal opinion within their religion.. so long as they get there, and they DO. The moderates are worthwhile dealing with and we can and DO deal with them all over the globe. It isn't a RELIGIOUS issue, it is an ideological issue, just as German Nazi fascism was an ideology, not a people group.

Also, the Nazis often took those who were Germans who opposed their fascism and threw them in concentration camps and into their ovens with the others. They had no favoritism for them just because they were Germans. In the same way, Islamofascists MANY times they attack their own.. those who say they are Islamics or Muslims. Therefore, if they are attacking and killing other Islamics, those they are attacking and killing (Islamics and Muslims) should not have any problem with our going after them, any more than the Germans objected to us going after the Fascist Nazis.

When Hitler was defeated, that was the end of Nazism... and when we defeat Islamofascism, that will be the end of that, too. But there will remain the peaceful Islamics and Muslims.. even as there remained peaceful Germans. All we are seeking is to remove the Fascist threat so we can get back to living in peace. We don't like war.. but if forced to it (as we are now) will fight until we win. And, we will have the support of the Muslims and Islamics who are moderate, inasmuch as they can do so without being targeted and killed by the fascists, I am sure. (And some will even lay down their lives for their moderate faith, and HAVE done so, for the Iraqis say that those who are killed by the Islamofascists are MARTYRS.. though you don't read that much in the Mainstream Media (MSM) news.)

Perhaps the story below will show a bit of the change which has happened, in attacking the tolerant Muslims. Note this lady was peacefully practicing her faith and then extremists have come in and taken over.. this is much like the Nazi threat.. which came upon the German people and took over their country, too:

‘Sister, Cover Your Face’
Molouk Y. Ba-Isa, Arab News May 6, 2005

In her last column Lubna Hussain wrote about a humiliating experience that happened to her while performing Umrah at the Holy Haram. One might think that this was perhaps something out of the ordinary. That is why I wanted to break my silence about my experiences at the Grand Mosque, which to this day make my heart grieve.

I used to love to pray in the Grand Mosque. My relatives are from Makkah and for them praying at the Holy Haram is a regular occurrence. At night if they have no other obligations they go to visit the Holy Kaaba. Of course on Friday they are always there for Jumah prayer. If anyone is ill or troubled, someone from the family goes to the Holy Mosque to pray for mercy from Allah. My relatives simply could not imagine staying away from the Grand Mosque for more than a few days.

I used to be like them. From Yanbu, where my family lived years ago, it was an easy drive on the weekend to go to Makkah. We’d visit my mother-in-law and all the aunties and other relatives. We’d pray at the Grand Mosque. Then, we’d shop. I never thought twice about hopping in the car and driving to Makkah.

Depending on the season, the Holy Haram could be quite crowded. At those times we’d go to the mosque late at night or early in the morning, but we never stayed away. I remember 21 years ago carrying my six-week-old son in my arms and performing Umrah with him. People were so kind. I have fond memories of the people who sweetly offered to carry our tiny baby during the long walk between Safa and Marwa.

Then, suddenly, about a decade ago things began to change at the Grand Mosque. Yes, the numbers coming for Umrah and Haj seemed much larger. But that cannot explain the difference in the mood and behavior of the crowds. Circumambulating the Kaaba began to require the skills of a wrestler. After suffering the pushing, elbowing and jostling of the crowd, I would return home and usually find that I’d been seriously bruised.

My mother-in-law, an elderly lady, who was carried on a litter during the Umrah rituals, was very upset to see the hurt I’d been caused. The next Ramadan when I wanted to perform Umrah, she insisted that we perform the rituals as a group. She hoped that the men of the family could offer us some protection. It was even worse than before. We could not stay together in the huge crush and the men were personally offended with the behavior of some aggressive people in the crowd. It was difficult to keep any sort of religious thoughts in my mind under such conditions.

That was six years ago and since that time I have not performed Umrah during Ramadan. However, I still went to the Holy Haram during Ramadan, but I would stay on the second level in a ladies’ area, well away from the crowds. Generally, I was alone as my husband and son would be praying elsewhere.

Then, five years ago in the spring, an incident happened in the mosque. Even now when I think of it, tears come to my eyes. It was during the Maghrib prayer. I was standing at the end of a row with my eyes closed, listening to the imam recite. There was a tap on my shoulder. “Ghati Wajhik,” came an insistent female whisper. My eyes flew open. I was being told to cover my face during the prayer. I stared straight ahead. Again the instruction came and again I ignored it. The woman standing behind me moved away. I was not left alone for long though.

While I was on my knees, two women covered from head to toe, except for their eyes, appeared at my side. They had some sort of badge sewn to the front of their hijab. One grasped my right wrist and ordered me in clear English, “Sister, cover your face.” I was shocked. Around me, despite the interruption, other women were trying to continue in their prayer but inquisitive looks were being thrown my way. To make a long and ugly story short, I spent the entire remainder of the prayer on my knees receiving a lecture. I could not escape, as making an aggressive move in the Holy Mosque was unacceptable to me.

Moments after the prayer finished my family came to collect me and found me on my knees with tears running down my cheeks. The two women informed my family that they were “Guardians of Holy Haram” and they issued instructions that I was to immediately cover my face. My family was horrified and quickly led me away. Even in our car I was still sobbing.

I have been unable to return to the Grand Mosque since that day. Every time I consider the idea, I am overcome with a feeling of panic. I have shared my experience with many other women in the hope of finding solace. Sadly, too often the women relate to me accounts that are just as unpleasant or even worse than mine. Rudeness and ignorance should find no foothold in the holiest place in Islam, but somehow it seems that certain people have forgotten the basic tenets of our faith.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9§ion=0&article=63276&d=6&m=5&y=2005

This illustrates that there has been moderate, tolerant and peaceful Islamics for many years in the past. (Just as there were moderate, tolerant and peaceful Germans before Nazi Fascism.) It changed because Islamofascists came in, even as Germany brought in Nazi fascism. It is a threat that must be addressed so that, once that threat is removed, Islamics can again practice peacefully within the basic tenets of their faith without fear of these "Guardians of the Holy Haram" or other self-appointed ideologues attacking them. This is not a war against Islamics, only those who have brought in a new, brutal form of Islam, taking the sword to attack others within or outside the Islamic faith - IslamFASCISTS, not Islamics (just like German FASCISTS, not Germans). I feel the distinction is key.

Sara.

-- December 4, 2006 4:36 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

The next question is going to be.. how did the Islamofascists get to the position of influence and power they are now weilding? This sheds some light on the CHANGES within the religion, I felt.

‘All Those Women Are Going to Hell’
Raid Qusti, rqusti@arabnews.com Ap 20, 2005

A Saudi father came home from work and relaxed in the living room, watching TV after a long day. He wanted to watch his favorite show hosted by the Islamic preacher, Amr Khaled, who has become popular by telling stories, in an interesting way, about the Prophet Muhammad’s (peace be upon him) life. As he sat calmly on the sofa, his son, an intermediate school student, came in and watched a bit of the program. Suddenly the boy said, “All of those women are probably going to Hell.” He was referring to the women in the studio audience who had come to hear the preacher and learn about the Prophet.

Shocked at what his son had just said, his father asked, “Why.” To which the boy answered, “Because they are committing a grave sin, making a tremendous mistake.” He then went on to explain to his father, “Today in school, in one of our Islamic textbooks, we studied this passage: ‘And what some women do by being easy in the matter of hijab and not covering their faces and hands in front of nonrelatives is a grave sin and a tremendous mistake.’” This story is taken from one of the letters to the editor published in Al-Watan last week. It was written by a Saudi father who had this experience. In the letter he said that our religious education is completely sectarian and one-sided, stressing only one point of view. These one-sided views often deal with subjects that are open to different interpretations by Muslims in different parts of the Islamic world.

The father also said that he believed that the difference of opinion in the matter of the hijab — whether to cover the face in public or not — between Islamic schools of thought should be part of our curriculum. Students should be made aware that there is no single opinion on the matter; rather there is disagreement among many Islamic scholars.

Among the consequences of not making students aware of the differences, he said, was that this kind of sectarian education would produce extremism and intolerance for other opinions and beliefs. He said that if students were taught — without prejudice and without slandering any school of Islamic thought — the many teachings and opinions on this subject, it would teach them to accept differences of opinion, even in religious matters about which even scholars disagree.

The man went on to point out that in the Islamic world today, 90 percent of Muslim women believe that it is not a sin for them not to cover their faces and hands in public — and he added that most Muslim scholars in the Islamic world today do not believe that women’s uncovered faces and hands are sinful.

There is, however, something else that needs to be addressed here. The fact that the boy was judgmental enough to say that all the women in the audience would go to Hell is not a matter to be lightly dismissed. To begin with, he was doing something that only God can do: Deciding the ultimate fate of human beings.

Secondly, if a young person is filled with such intolerance and prejudice at such an early stage of his life, what will be the consequences when he is an adult and interacts with either Muslims or non-Muslims? His father, however, must be commended for bringing up the topic of the sectarian minds that supposedly educate our children in matters of religion.

Last year, many delegates at the second National Forum for Dialogue in Makkah spoke about the need to change our school textbooks, saying that they were not suitable for today’s generation. They also said that the textbooks failed to teach tolerance and understanding. Their recommendations were made, forgotten and have now gone with the wind. The status quo remains. Unchanged. The fourth National Forum for Dialogue in the Eastern Province also called for a change in the curriculum — and these calls came from the young participants who represent the Kingdom’s new generation. Their calls were made, forgotten and have now gone with the wind. The status quo remains. Unchanged.

Tolerance: Such a small word with such huge implications, such an honorable history in Islam and such an important meaning. Unfortunately, it seems not to exist in our dictionary.

The longer we wait for a change in our present curriculum that promotes intolerance, the greater the danger of losing another generation. The danger of them not learning tolerance and not being able to listen to different opinions and viewpoints is too great for us to contemplate.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=62447&d=20&m=4&y=2005

Like when Nazi Fascism came to the fore, many are being indoctrinated into the NEW minority Islamofascist teachings. The change in the mosque mentioned in the last post told us that it happened about ten years ago. That is when they managed to poison the curriculum with the Islamofascist teachings and no tolerance for any other position (even within Islam). It has brought us the fight we now see because the young are taught only ONE thing and never exposed to opposing viewpoints. The fundamental beliefs of the faith of Islam are set aside and an extreme fascism is taught in place of the old religious views.

The father telling this son that that was not the only opinion on the matter (and, indeed, 90 percent of Muslim women believe that it is not a sin for them not to cover their faces and hands in public — and most Muslim scholars in the Islamic world today do not believe that women’s uncovered faces and hands are sinful, the article states) was to be commended. Here was a brainwashing technique which almost took his son into an extreme form of the Islamic religion which NINETY PERCENT of them do NOT believe!!! But.. it is taught in the textbooks and teaches the young to be judgemental to the point of taking the place of God and judging a person's eternal state.

This should be stopped.. but somehow the extremists have gotten into the place of power and authority to teach this, even as the German Nazis did.. This is why I say that once the Islamofascist threat is wiped out, the peaceful Muslim religion will return.. because 90% of them don't believe this form of extremism. They are just like the Germans under Hitler.. not believing it, working quietly against it, but acting prudently so as not to end up in the ovens themselves. They need to work harder, lest their boys end up the cannon fodder of the extremists. Their sons and daughters must be protected from this Islamofascist threat, so they don't sacrifice their lives for a false religious view. As that Muslim lady said in the last article, "Rudeness and ignorance should find no foothold in Islam... somehow it seems that certain people have forgotten the basic tenets of our faith."

They need to return to the basic, peaceful basis of their faith, and help us defeat the Islamofascists.

Sara.

-- December 4, 2006 4:58 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Sara and Carole others who are interested:

It sadden me to see Barak Obama at the church of Rick Warren. In my mind, Barak represents the far left of the Democratic Party and should not be invited to speak at an influential evangelical church.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 4, 2006 5:18 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

And it isn't just Arabic countries that we have to be concerned about being brainwashed into this new, radical extremist Islamofascism. Britain was attacked because they did not watch what was being taught to their youth:

Radicalisation of British Muslims
Published: 17/7/2005, 07:21 (UAE)
By Abdullah Al Madani, Special to Gulf News

However, signs of change came in the 1990s with the increased involvement of the community's young men with mosques, Islamic centres or organisations run by extremist clerics from the Middle East.

Deprived of freedom of action in their own countries, figures such as the Egyptian Abu Hamza Al Masri, Palestinian Abu Qatadah, Syrian Omar Bakri and many others found a convenient haven in Britain.

They carefully exploited the tolerance of the British and the country's liberal system to preach and promote the most radical ideas.

Their first target were British Asian Muslims, who do not know Arabic to learn about Islam directly.

This played into the hands of these clerics, who incited young British Muslims against Christianity and the West, encouraged them to glorify violence and death and used them as tools to promote a political agenda espousing Al Qaida's line.

One of the factors that helped them succeed, apart from London's soft policy, was the marginalisation of British Asian Muslims caused by poverty, unemployment, social ostracism and the consequent depression.

This, in addition to torn feelings between two cultures and identities and the impact of the Islamisation process and jihad movements in South Asia, drove many of the alienated Muslim youth to join extremist, Islamist groups.

Among other equally ugly results was a tendency among some British Asian Muslims to make their primary loyalty to the Islamic ummah rather than Britain.

This was evident in a survey conducted by the Asian radio station Sunrise among 500 Muslims in Greater London. While 98 per cent of them said that they would not fight for Britain, 48 per cent said they would fight for Bin Laden and Islam.

Also noticed was an emerging tendency among young men to refer to themselves as "a Muslim living in Britain" rather than "a British Muslim" something that means it is their religion that provides their identity, not their country of birth and residence.

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/OpinionNF.asp?ArticleID=173348

Our religious tolerance should not be used as a platform to allow the preaching of Islamofascism within our country as Britain did. It is not intolerant of us to not allow Nazism, or any other hateful extremist ideology, including Islamofascism. The government has the right to stop all who take the sword to attack it and prevent bloodshed within its borders by rule of law, disallowing subversive teachings which go against the government and the common good. The Islamofascist teachings are subversive to the government and the public good and should be legislated against as a crime. This is NOT legislating against Islam or Muslims.. but against Islamofascism, as we would against the preaching of Nazism, not against Germans.

If "British Asian Muslims make their primary loyalty to the Islamic ummah rather than Britain." and "98 per cent of them said that they would not fight for Britain, 48 per cent said they would fight for Bin Laden and Islam.".. then this shows that there is a fifth column present within that population which ANY responsible government should wipe out as a threat to its existence. To do less because it hides under a religious label is not clear thinking. It is an anti-governmental ideology which must be stopped before they attack to kill the people and overthrow the government.

fifth column
–noun

1. A group of people who act traitorously and subversively out of a secret sympathy with an enemy of their country.

2. (originally) Franco sympathizers in Madrid during the Spanish Civil War: so called in allusion to a statement in 1936 that the insurgents had four columns marching on Madrid and a fifth column of sympathizers in the city ready to rise and betray it.

3. A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an invading enemy's military and political aims.

4. A subversive group that supports the enemy and engages in espionage or sabotage; an enemy in your midst

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fifth%20column

If they are disloyal to Britain, they must leave the country. Why should Britain entertain such people on their own soil, when they are not British citizens from the heart, but wish to fight against the country and with her enemies? This should also dictate our policies... while protecting Islamic religious liberties, there should be a clear line about where loyalties lie, and anyone outside of those loyalties who would fight against the US government and its people should be deported. The US government has that power and right to defend itself and its people, even as you have the right to defend your own life from being taken. When you consider how many people would come to the US and defend her gladly as citizens.. there is no need to keep the subversive within the borders of the US - the subversive fifth column of Islamofascists needs to be discovered and removed. There should be legislation in place to make this as easy as possible.

Sara.

-- December 4, 2006 5:32 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Robert S;

Feel free to quote any of us on the board.. it would be good if the conservative views we see expressed here in support of the troops, government and honest, normal values that the vast majority of North Americans hold were actually espoused in as many public places as is possible. (I added "North" because I thought of you, Tim Bitts - appreciate your views, too.) The MSM (Mainstream Media) is not doing the job of fairly presenting opposing viewpoints - and as you see, when only one view is allowed to speak, you end up with extremism, intolerance and imbalance on the issues.

Okie, thanks for the article on, "Iraq Gov. Sets up Media Monitor After AP Uses Bogus Source." That is helpful. :)

Sara.

-- December 4, 2006 6:15 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Thanks Sara, I'm still enjoying your posts. I'll comment from time to time. :)

-- December 4, 2006 7:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carole,

1. Talk to me if you have something to say to me. Don't talk to others ABOUT me a a 3rd person when you know I'm standing there. That's an attempt to take the high ground by denial of presence.

2. Carl talks for himself, and I talk for myself.

3. I am not hostile against Christians, that is your creation, conclusion. If I have something to say, and it happens to be a dissagreement, it will take you about 0.675 and 0682 microseconds to immediately label the originator. Thats the easy way out.

This is about two things.

First, the idea to "mark" Muslims, special visas, mark on the driver licence, or whatever ideas can be conceived.

Second. Our agreement about Islam. On this point it's a no brainer, in general, this type of religion is a no go, and big fundamental disagreements exists in the western culture.

(just look back a couple of posts, on this blog alone, post after post tells how bad they are, how to stop them, and how to impede their progress, and this is based on the very very few Muslim TERRORISTS, NOT EVEN THEIR BACKWARDS CLAN SOCIETIES AROUND THE GULF, HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE IN THE WEST UNTIL THE TERRORISTS STARTED UP, still a Billion plus, Muslims, pays for what very very few are doing, and it's a debate how to stop "THEM", a whole group as a generality)

I don't like the Islam viewpoint, and if you also disagree with it, fine, I have no problem with any of that.

But if you don't like Jones, leave them alone and let them be what they are, don't stand at their door screaming how bad they are, because their cousin is a Criminal.

("All the Jones are alike, how can we stop them?")

So, like the mistake in the past, the idea is to mark the people of another religion.

I ask, who is suppose to be "sorted out" ? ALL the Muslims, A Billion or so? How exactly are we going to "protect" us from them? Carole, there are many many people that will pay for the sins of very very few, if this is implemented.

This, seem very much to me, a very good excuse to do something about a Christian fear, that the Christian faith, will lose out to the Muslim faith.

Isn't it so?

Terrorists, good, that's what we need, and tell the world that THAT is what we are trying to protect us from.

So, lets sew on a crescent on the overcoat on ALL the Muslims.

We've been there before.

Carole, let me tell you a secret, the Muslims are as afraid that your Christian faith will infiltrate in their life, as You as a Christian are afraid that the Muslim faith, will infiltrate in your life.

Ghosts in the head, makes people go kill each other in the name of God, and then be right about it.

Some work on it.

-- December 4, 2006 8:29 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

Thank You Carole

For telling me how I Believe...
Still the same ole song and dance huh! Carole?
Sorry! too busy with more important to respond today...

Forget about the gloves...lets dance

-- December 4, 2006 8:44 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger wrote:

First, the idea to "mark" Muslims, special visas, mark on the driver licence, or whatever ideas can be conceived.
I don't like the Islam viewpoint, and if you also disagree with it, fine, I have no problem with any of that.
But if you don't like Jones, leave them alone and let them be what they are, don't stand at their door screaming how bad they are, because their cousin is a Criminal.
("All the Jones are alike, how can we stop them?")

===end of quote===

I agree, Roger.. I dislike the Islamofascist takfiris viewpoint and wish we could just leave them alone.. however, they have formed a fifth column within the US which means they are criminals plotting to attack us from within. Do you really think we should just let them continue on because MOST of those in the same faith are peaceful? Because most Islamics are not fascists? Should we put our collective heads in the sand and let them plot in the dark? I take issue with your "leave them alone and let them be what they are" if it means letting the takfiris alone to plot your murder, or the overthrow of the US government.

As I said before, I think they have not attacked yet because they are plotting bigger than most think.. a knockout punch, not a few little attacks here and there. I hope I am wrong.. but, just in case, mightn't you think it worthwhile to prudently consider some way of protecting your own life and homeland? Protesting the inconveniences of trying to address the problem or possible abuses which could happen.. will not address the issue.. which is your safety and that of the government you live under (which, by the way, is a very strategic and important safeguard for your liberties).

Today, the Egyptians have shown a way of dealing with one such threat:

Egypt holds French, U.S. suspects in secret group
Mon Dec 4, 11:50 AM ET

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian police have arrested nine French people, an American and two Belgians on suspicion of forming a secret Islamist organization linked to "terrorist" groups abroad, the government said on Monday.

A number of Tunisians and Syrians were also arrested, the Interior Ministry said.
"These people had links with certain terrorist organizations abroad. Investigations showed that they were trying to recruit others and indoctrinate them in their destructive beliefs and incite them to jihad and to travel to Iraq to carry out operations," a ministry statement said.

"The members of the secret organization have adopted takfiri and jihadi ideas ... It includes Arabs and foreigners resident in the country under cover of studying the Arabic language and Islamic religious learning," it added.

Takfiri groups believe that Muslims who do not share their views are infidels. Jihad is usually translated as holy war.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/egypt_arrests_dc

Is it ok to ask why the US, UK, Canada, Australia, etc, etc.. are not doing the same thing as these Egyptians? I am not pro-governmental interference in our civil rights.. but surely preserving our lives and governments means something? And.. are we to stand by and let the terrorists actually attack the government as they said they will do? Is there no lines to be drawn here? If the Egyptians, who have many legitimate Muslims in their country.. can manage to figure out and detain those who are takfiri and jihadi.. why can't the Western powers do so, too?

It is like the arguments against allowing people to be armed to protect themselves, their lives and property - only now it is the same "anti-gun" people who want the government to not defend its life... no guns for government, no legislation or law enforcement against takfiris, terrorist, jihadi Islamofascist groups (the fifth column) - making the government vulnerable to attack... and its citizens, too.

Are you advocating doing NOTHING, Roger, because there may be abuses and exceptions along the way? How do you see the way forward to address the Islamofascist threat? What do you advocate doing.. anything? I agree with you that we must try VERY HARD not to cause religious persecution of any group of people.. but if you have a fifth column hiding among them in the country under cover of studying the Arabic language and Islamic religious learning," or some such thing.. are you saying we must just let them alone until it is too late and they strike?

Sara.

-- December 4, 2006 10:01 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Sara,

No I DO advocate measures against Islamofascists, the point is, I'm against is generalities against ALL of a religion, group or similar.

Wish we could talk Dinars, but what the heck, seems to be slow on that front, have been cruising the ordinary Dinar sites, and found nothing of importance, so ,..... how's your God today?

Can't we talk crankshafts or something instead?

-- December 4, 2006 10:17 PM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Sara,
Amen! I think this is what Bush had in mind with changing the rules on taping in on them.
We are for the people, by the people in America. Surely something can and will be done, the only problem is once again the MSM will not represent the unbiased facts to the people. Same old story: the voice of truth is a distant cry in the wilderness, and few can hear it.

-- December 4, 2006 10:36 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

The Dinar will go in one way or the other into a higher value, but the road there have for sure been a long and hard obstacle course.

It has involved, a civilization that is for us a foreign way of life, our own resolve, our internal and external policies, Iraq's politics, , terrorists, and insurgency, and their way of doing things. And not the least theirs and our religion, and all the associations with religion, and all aspects of religion and terrorism.

We're not there yet, the Dinar is not yet where it's profitable to cash out, but I must say, the travelling to this point have been very very interesting.

In the very beginning, I was drawn into the Dinar game for pure profits sake, and I'm still very much economically motivated, (of course), but I have got something out of this Dinar train, that I never thought I would get.

So far, I have learned a lot of things, have researched and found out a new spectrum of life that I didn't have before. Have been butting heads , and have had wonderful insights from some, agreeing, and disagreeing.

If the Dinar train would derail, I would be financially very disappointed, but I would leave the train much much richer.

-- December 4, 2006 11:02 PM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger/ Sara,

I am glad to see you both discussing the tremendous dilema we, and the world face regarding the Muslims.

There are no easy answers. But the threats are easy to understand, just not easy to deal with.

The distinction I see beetween Nazism and the Islamofascist regime is that Nazism in comparison to the Muslim issue was isolated to a small paritcular part of the world. The Islamofascist movement has penetrated pretty significantly every continent on this planet.

The other distinction is the religious aspect. Even the harshest of Nazi, in is own conscience knew he was committing evil, but proceded to do so because of the invasion( impact) the Jews were having on the socioeconmic in eastern Europe. They were the most educated, owned the most businesses, dominated the Arts, etc,....

Hitler convinced the average German, that to allow the Jews to continue to dominate the German culture would be a threat to their prosperity and their culture.

Hitler was the German's savior. He promised them great wealth in turn for their devotion to him and trust that he would save them from the grips of the influence of the Jews..

And so the story goes... right out of control..and the world stood by as atrocities flourished...

and you know the rest of the story.

I see very few parallels when looking at the details between Nazism and what the world is dealing with now.

Also, Nazism did not have near the depth of roots as Muslimism has.

We are comparing a couple of decades to several hundred years or more.

Sara, I have to question your statistics ( ie..90%, 80%...). Where are these statistics documented.

It is vital that when contemplating any ideas on how to deal with the present problem, we must be absolutely accurate on data.

In the future if I decide to " take up arms" so to speak against any faction of this Islamofascist issue, I want to be sure that 90% or 80% ( data from which I make decisions) may not really be 20% or 30%.

I am sure that when Hitler was embarking on his venture, the percentages of threat he was giving to the ordinary people were very stretched and far fetched.

We can't afford another halocaust----as we can't afford to allow the Islamofascists to plunder the US or any other part of the world.

What terrible times we all face!! If I thought that it would be of any consequence to bury my head in the sand, I would be the fisrt one doing so, cause I hate dealing or even thinking about all this...but the reality is, that like it or not, humanity is faced with these perplexities, and they are not going away, and we can't wish them away.

Sara, you cite what must be done, but who si going to do it...our government? I doubt it!!

The MSM-- ridiculous to even think it possible!

I think that the growing groups of anti-islamofascist movement types ( very much like the anti communist movement groups will get the ball rolling.

Much prayer is needed on all fronts. Humanity can not afford any mistakes, this time.

Carole

-- December 5, 2006 12:30 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Roger,

Come on!! NO one is asking you to be the KGB. But please get involved on this very troubling and dangerous subject.

I don't like you much, but I do recognize your intelligence and ability to analyze situations and offer almost unmatchable information.

Even if you see our point of view, please take a position from our point of veiw and think hard and clear about how you would deal with the substantial threat the Islamofascist movement is having in our country and around the world.

It is probably the toughest issue we will have to deal with in our lifetime.

Just get on the same page with us for awhile.

-- December 5, 2006 12:46 AM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Rob,

I have been very concerned about several things that Rick has been involved in lately.

He needs our prayers.

Carole

-- December 5, 2006 12:52 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Seems like Rodney King was put on this earth for one purpose only.

-- December 5, 2006 12:52 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

KGB? oh well.

-- December 5, 2006 1:10 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Carole,

Have your Crusade, fine with me, as long as you are actually hitting the Islamofaschists.

From the display I've seen so far on the subject, you might want to use a sniper rifle, instead of a scatter gun.

Happy hunting. Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

-- December 5, 2006 1:25 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Hi, I am glad to see this is still a busy site. I'm amazed at the time and the energy some people are putting into this site. Well done.

Roger, I am impressed that you are seeing things a bit different, over time, as you wrote. Not that you've changed your world-view, and are suddenly religious, but I'm impressed that the discussion of the intersection between religion and politics and the economics of the dinar is making you look at the world in a new way.

It has been my experience that people very rarely change so much that they SEE the world in a different way than what was formed early in life. To become aware and to realize how very different other people may see the world, while continuing to see the world as you always have, is a very big thing. Good for you.

I was impressed by something the Pope said recently. He spoke out for religious tolerance, world-wide, and said Christians who live in Muslim countries should be free from persecutions, and free to practice their own faith, in those countries. There are still Christians in Turkey and I guess the point of his recent trip there was to highlight that.

Now, Christianity and Islam have a very curious relationship, at this point. In most Muslim countries, Christianity is either forbidden, repressed, or under seige. As most people on this site would agree, at this point in time, there are very sizable elements of intolerance within Islam.

The world really has changed, recently. I live in a city in Western Canada, and there is a large mosque less than a mile from here, and the largest mosque in Canada is under construction, in this city. There are plenty of Muslim immigrants here.

My brother-in-law works in Qater. There, you see no church steeples. You see no preaching of the gospel of Christ. There, you see no white, Christians colonizing the region.

Europe, like North America, is being colonized, only in Europe, it is much more advanced. London has become Londonistan, which is also the name of a very good book talking about the Islamification of the West. And of course, Muslims are breeding at a high rate, Christians at a very low rate, which means, by my calculations, there will be three hundred million Muslims in Europe by this century's end. Naturally, once that many Muslims live in Europe, then European history as we have known it has ended, and the continent will belong to them.

Whenever massive changes happen, new rules apply, some spoken, some unspoken. In order for this change to be tolerated and encouraged, human need a new set of rules governing the new relationship between the colonizers and the population that will be replaced. Such is the case in Europe and North America. Politically correct rules have been in place for quite some time, to make this all possible. So, the new rules, supported by the liberals elites in Europe and American seem to be somthing like this: Tolerance is a one way street. We are to be tolerant of Muslim. They need not be tolerant of us. They can colonize what has historically been our land, take it over and dominate us eventually. We must not think about, question, acknowledge or show awareness of this taking place, nor criticize this. Their religion can come to our land, but our religion cannot come to theirs, for that would be pushy and intolerant, and Muslims are allowed to act that way, but Christians are not. In short, think of tolerance as a street. It just happens to be, a one way street. Get used to it. If you question this wisdom by your liberal masters, and don't wish to give up your continent and your heritage, you are a nasty bigot, and will be called one. Got it?

Now, the Pope understands how liberals think, and doesn't seem to think all of it is good. He understands that for Christianity and Islam to co-exist, Islam must change.

The present ludicrous situation, and set of cultural rules regarding the relationship between the two faiths obviously cannot continue in the long run, without destroying us, which is exactly what radical Muslims say they intend to do, and liberals are aiding and abetting.

So, obviously, the Pope is right. If Muslims become as tolerant as we are, they can live amongst us peacefully. If they don't become tolerant as we are, war is the inevitable result of it. Two civilizations, with fundementally different and conflicting basic ideas animating each civilization cannot continue to co-exist when the ideas of one lead to the destruction of the other. The present arrangement between Christians and Muslims simply can't last, over the long run. They will change, and become tolerant, or we will be overwhelmed and dominated by them, or we will destroy them, or at least cause enough serious damage to them that they will not want to do us harm. As to which option I think will prevail, I'm not holding my breath, waiting for them to become tolerant.

And Iraq is part of that picture. So, whatever the daily idiocy of the liberal press, they will eventually have to change. We are one terrorist nuclear bomb, in a suitcase, set off in Denver, Colorado, away from a very violent series of wars, and a very large change in our culture.

As a young man, I considered myself to be a liberal. I like tolerance and open mindedness and diverse opinions, and have had friends from every conceivable background. It suits my natural temperment. Today, liberals seem small and petty to me. They seem to understand their own societies, but not the larger world. The next great question in history is, can Christians and Muslims get along, without constant war? Frankly, I doubt it. And the first people to understand this, and understand that confrontation with Islam is inevitable, and that Islam must change, were people on the right. These are the people, the ones on the right, who understand you cannot have religious freedom in London, and Toronto, but not in Cairo, nor Mecca. Freedom of religion in London and Toronto cannot exist indefinitely when freedom of religion does not exist in Cairo, nor Mecca. The one depends on the other, in the long run. The Pope understands this.

The two civilizations battling it out in Iraq are the start of that confrontation. I'm betting we win, and all get rich doing it.

-- December 5, 2006 2:19 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Tim Bitts,

It will take a long time to settle this, and in the meanwhile there will be a lot of rights and wrongs.

Common sense, or survival for the most number will prevail in the end.

Right now that definition is used mostly for the owns best interest, and only when it's obvious that, best for all, is the tolerance of all, is the winner, will this start to take place.

Right now, Islam, have Christian paranoia, and Jewish psychosis.

Christianity, is currently developing a really healthy paranoia against Islam right now, so for now, it doesn't look good.

Interesting to see how afraid the two are of each other. It's fear to the point of panic.

The terrorists, really managed to make the heads spin in both camps.

It's not a matter of getting after the terrorists now, it's a matter of getting Islam.

Grab a pitchfork and a torch, and join the mob,..... I'll pass.

The terrorists and the fascists, wants you to go after all the Muslims, because they know that that will spawn more terrorists, and fascists.

Take your pick.

-- December 5, 2006 3:13 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

"I, Robot" - 'I told you so' won't cut it.

Roger wrote, "No I DO advocate measures against Islamofascists, the point is, I'm against is generalities against ALL of a religion, group or similar." I agree. That was all I was after.. that we have to do something against the Islamofascists.. even while preserving freedom of religion for EVERY religious group. There has to be a way to protect us, Roger, while also protecting freedom of religious belief. It may indeed cause some inconveniences, even as it isn't easy to board a plane anymore because of the extra security measures.. but we have to do SOMETHING to protect ourselves. All non-tikfirit Muslims will understand this because they too are targets of these extremists. It just has to be done.. for the non-tikfirit Muslims, for the citizens of the country and for the sake of the government.

Valerio wrote: "Surely something can and will be done, the only problem is once again the MSM will not represent the unbiased facts to the people. Same old story: the voice of truth is a distant cry in the wilderness, and few can hear it." Seriously, Valerio, it may be the ending of the United States of America if that voice in the wilderness is not heard and heeded. It reminds me of the sci-fi movie "I, Robot" where no one listened to Detective John Spooner until the revolution broke out. They had all been thinking that the robots were peaceful and of no threat, even as they infiltrated society at every turn. Spooner turns up at the heroine's apartment and destroys the robot keeping her captive and then says, "Somehow, 'I told you so' just doesn't cut it." I don't want an 'I told you so' either. Perhaps it is vain to try, with so few listening.. but 'I told you so' will just not cut it when the day comes.

Thanks, Roger, on your comments on growing through this Dinar venture.. we all have. It has been a great learning experience, as you said, and you have taught me much with your insights. Thanks for your contributions, which have been many. :)

Carole - The statistics I quoted came from the Gulf News articles I quoted (with urls, but they are about a year old now). The people publishing them were Muslims speaking about how many adhered to their faith. I think they would keep track of such things more so than the disinterested West and I hope they are accurate, though they should be cross-checked, as you said, before basing policy on them. I am glad you do recognise in Roger, quote, "I do recognize your intelligence and ability to analyze situations and offer almost unmatchable information." I agree that he does indeed have very keen insight which is helpful and important as a contribution to the debate.

Tim Bitts wrote - "The present arrangement between Christians and Muslims simply can't last, over the long run. They will change, and become tolerant, or we will be overwhelmed and dominated by them, or we will destroy them, or at least cause enough serious damage to them that they will not want to do us harm. As to which option I think will prevail, I'm not holding my breath, waiting for them to become tolerant." There is a definite need to do something and The Patriot Act was born out of that concern.. trying to protect our freedoms from terrorists, while also allowing the regular Muslims to continue on in their lives without incident. It has worked so far, with the regular Muslims not being harmed or attacked or their liberties taken away - though the Liberals have fought against it saying it is detracting from civil liberties. Whether that will prevail once the House and Senate change to liberal hands is anyone's guess. Already we see even this measure under seige.

I don't think the extremists will set off a bomb in the US while President Bush is in the Whitehouse.. it would be devastating against their fifth column. This eroding of public opinion for any measures taken against them (including the Patriot Act) which the liberals and MSM are championing is their best strategy for now. The American people are not listening to those who appear to be voices in the wilderness.. but to the MSM's "it hasn't happened, we are at peace, these people are just paranoid" mantra - just as everyone believed the status quo about the peaceful robots built to protect the people and not to harm them in "I, Robot".. until the gloves came off and the revolution began. If you saw the movie, I feel like Spooner when one of the 'peaceful' robots says to him, "You are experiencing a car accident" and he answers back with a degree of disbelief in the mantra about the peaceful robot population and their words about the situation as he was experiencing it.

Sara.

-- December 5, 2006 7:20 AM ∞

---

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-- December 5, 2006 8:37 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger, I think you are obviously right that terrorists are trying to instigate a fight between Islam and the West, and to provoke paranoia, and that there is already a great deal of paranoia about the issue. But is that paranoia real, and justified, or not? I have always believed most people are only three square meals, or a full thank of gas away from barbarism. I really don't think it takes much to set most people off. That's why I worry about all this. I think we are very close to catastrophe. You seem to look at mass paronoia and think, well, that's just irrational. Cooler heads will prevail. I look at paranoia and say, well, people's true nature is coming out. The beast is loose. The herd is getting ready to stampede.

Civilized behaviour has always seemed to me to be a very, very thin veneer. In my opinion, continued civilized behaviour between Islam and the West is not likely, unless Islam changes it's basic beliefs, and becomes tolerant. To me, the roots of everything you see in the middle east can be traced back to intolerant views expressed in the Qu'aran. Those views, quoted by, I think it was Okie recently, are very irratational and encourage irrationality, and will have to change. To change beliefs about a holy book is not easy.

Religion, for me, is, to some degree, an expression of the irrational side of humans. That's why it is so powerful, and strong. Now, you may be a very rational fellow, but I doubt that you represent the norm, on this planet. So, for you to believe in rationality too much is itself, a bit irrational. I admire your faith. I don't place much faith in the rational side of humans, myself. I think the irrational side of people is stronger. You don't seem to be a religious man, Roger, except in the sense that you seem to have a streak of irrational faith in the rationality and sanity of humans, that I don't really share. I admire and slightly envy your faith, but I don't share it.

Anyway, we'll see. I always enjoy reading your posts. You are putting a lot of energy into this. Well done. I'll buy you a beer at the roast, or maybe bring some beer from one of the local micro-breweries.

Win or lose, I think this whole thing is a hell of a lot of fun!

Cheers.

-- December 5, 2006 10:37 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: My impression of Roger, is he likes to play the Devil's Advocate. He's pretty good at it. He seems to have a lot of fun, playing that role. I have no idea what Roger's real beliefs are, but I appreciate his role as instigator and foil, to continue the back and forth of discussion, with various people. I'm glad that, at least on the surface, his views are very different than mine and a lot of people on this site. Makes things interesting. Roger seems to be looking for a challenge. He seems to be saying, unstated, who can take me on? Who can outwit me? Who can challenge me? I'll take all comers! I wonder what the best strategy is, to engage someone like that? Hmmm.........

-- December 5, 2006 11:26 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.edinarfinancial.net

Dropping of the dollar agianst iraqi dinar caused by low interest rates
December 05, 2006

Dr. Taha Fakhri, member of the Iraqi Institute for developing the economy, said: "The decline in interest rates is the reason behind the slight decline in the dollar in governmental auctions and commercial transactions". He added: "This decline is also caused by the weak consumers demand on imported goods due to the deteriorating security situation, which compelled the State to finance some important deals".

He pointed out that: "The slight rise or decline of the dollar does not obstruct the growth or value of the iraqi dinar which is expected to become stronger than before with the introduction of the balance of 2007 and the strategic application of the new monetary policy announced by the government last year". He explained: "The decline will be reflected on the value of the precious metals whose prices will rise as a result of the fall in the dollar, which gives an opportunity for those who hold commercial transactions, such as automobiles and heavy equipment, to invest them". Fakhri said: in some cases the decline in the dollar rate is linked to America itself through the entry of imported goods and the exit of funds from it.(Source)AlSabah

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 5, 2006 12:52 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

I think we’re coming to crunch time, not only with our posture towards the Muslims but for a more positive value of the Dinar.

-The investment law received final approval.
(Are you going to let Chase bank buy your country for peanuts?)

-The Hydro carbon Law should be approved within weeks.
(Are you going to buy hundreds of billions of equipment with the current IQD?)

-The CBI has removed, via purchases, an estimated 1.2 Trillion IQD from the market.
(Better to buy them at a low price instead of a higher one.)

- The Iraq budget cycle begins in Jan.
(The GOI will be operating on their own nickel.)

- Despite the killings, the economy looks good.
(Debts are down. Revenue is up. Financial agreements are in place.)

-The GOI must act quickly due to the US political situation.
(They understand the Democrats will have a negative impact on them.)

-- December 5, 2006 1:25 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I have been thinking about the movie, "I Robot", for its parallels to our current situation (and there are quite a few of them). Because Tim Bitts mentioned the irrationality of humans it made me think about the parallel to the new robots (who are naive automatons - like the new generation of tikfiris) as opposed to the old models. The previous generations of Robots (Muslims) in the movie were programmed with the three laws (not killing humans) and were safe (previous generations of Muslims up until now have been peaceful and safe toward the world). It was the NEW generation which had been programmed to overcome this natural law (the command of God not to kill) by using a direct link to their leader (terrorists/tikfiris - and they are hardwired to them by their teachings which are taught/imprinted as the only interpretation of the Koran). These new robots would take their instructions from their leader and kill on command when directed to do so - (as the terrorists do, like robotic killing machines - otherwise known as automatons. - It is interesting to note that when they are apprehended, many reports I have read say that these cold-blooded terrorists act like naive children, saying, "Don't hurt me" and acting in bewildered childish ways - not as hardened men of war.)

When Spooner discovers the new robots terminating the older ones (parallels of Muslims being killed by tikfiris), he runs away (because he is vastly outnumbered) and they almost catch him in a nightmare sequence. He is only spared by the older robots (Muslims professing the law - of God - not to kill humans) who leap down and engage the new robots so he can escape. In the end sequence, the robots are all freed from slavery to their (terrorist) leader and they begin to think for themselves and learn to find themselves and their place in this world - not blinded by mechanical obedience to the killing dictates of false leadership.

I believe you are right, Tim Bitts... mankind is irrational naturally. When given only one set of input, they act just like computers and believe it without question. Men all start out "simple" this way. Terrorist leaders exploit this natural tendency within human beings to imprint, imitate and believe what we are taught unquestioningly when we are first born (babes).

Pro 14:15 The simple believes every word, But the prudent considers well his steps.

It is true, we are all born "simple", not prudent, nor wise. We do not consider, at first. We believe everything we are taught unquestioningly and are easily exploited by others for our naivete.

na·ive – adjective

1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2. having or showing a lack of experience, information or critical judgment; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.
3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique
4 Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
a. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.
b. Unsuspecting or credulous: “Students, often bright but naive, bet - and lose - substantial sums of money on sporting events” (Tim Layden).
c. Not previously subjected to experiments: testing naive mice.

(from Old French naif, natural, native, from Latin ntvus, native, rustic, from ntus, past participle of nsc, to be born)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/naive

The word comes from the Latin meaning, "to be born".. we are all born this way, naive. The problem comes when someone exploits this trusting nature inherent in all humans for their own lusts and political gain (Hitler, the terrorist Islamofascists). Normally, they do so professing the highest of ideals, deceiving those who follow them... ie - "They looked to Hitler, a vegetarian, a tee- totaler, a non-smoker, and as far as one could see, a man who has no fun of any kind, to save Germany's morals."

Sara.

-- December 5, 2006 1:45 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

In a hurry, business will take me for a while, goota go see ya all, thanks Tim, all others good posting.

-- December 5, 2006 2:30 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This is good!!!! Maliki is reaching out to everybody concerned and also announcing the oil and gas law is ready to be voted on. Things are moving at a faster pace since Bush & Maliki met in Jordan. Looks like a good time to get serious about an RV!!!

===============================================================================================

The name of God the Merciful
The Republic of Iraq

Prime minister
Media Bureau
Tuesday 5 / 12 / 2006

Address by His Excellency Mr. Prime Minister, in the press conference
December 5, 2006

In order to enhance the role of regional and Iraq closer relations with the surrounding Arab and Muslim diplomatic initiative under the government of national unity will be sent envoys to visit neighboring countries, regional to exchange views on issues of common concern and urged the governments of these countries to contribute to the strengthening of security and stability in Iraq and to support the efforts of the Iraqi government in the face of terrorism and groups outside the law. After creating the appropriate political climate to let the convening of a conference involving the States interested in the security and stability of Iraq is committed to assisting the Iraqi people in building a democratic political system and an independent standard.

In furtherance of the national reconciliation conference, which views the political forces will be held in the middle of this month will be various personalities and political parties and organizations to participate in the Iraqi political process and others to strengthen the Iraqi national unity and to agree on a national charter prohibits fighting Alta in the open horizons of cooperation between the various components of the Iraqi people and contribute in saving the nation from going through the difficult phase where it combine the forces of terrorism The armed groups outside the law, which is working to spread chaos in the country and seeking to sabotage the political process and to stop the process of the reconstruction of Iraqna beloved.

We have also embarked on the opening of dialogues aimed at expanding the political base underlying the rebuilding of the Iraqi state and its various institutions; Iraq to the Iraqis and all partners in this country and its wealth and they have the full right to the positive contribution to a constructive and management within the framework of the Constitution, which is a common denominator of all citizens on the basis of citizenship, regardless of national affiliation, sectarian and religious and political.

After that was agreed with the leaders of parliamentary blocs participating in the government will work to strengthen the government of national unity and effectiveness through cabinet reshuffle, which includes a number of ministries we will announce it in a short period of time.

In order to protect citizens and establish security throughout the country and Alastekararve; the government of national unity would continue its efforts for rehabilitation and rebuilding of the armed forces to be able to take over the security functions in all governorates.

In a bid to reconstruction projects have finished law Alastthmarhith approved in the House of Representatives, which would attract capital, national and foreign necessary to finance major projects in the country. this law also provides great opportunities for investors and contribute to the legal protection to encourage them to invest in Iraq.

In the same vein, the government has completed the drafting of the oil and gas, which will be presented to the House of Representatives for approval. This law constitutes an important positive factor to enhance the unity of the country and to guarantee fair distribution of national resources to various areas in Iraq; Natural resources, particularly oil and gas are the property of all Iraqis.

In order to resolve the housing problem in Iraq Tekarratellak the national housing project, which aims to build tens of thousands of housing units in the various provinces supported the granting of loans and mortgages. To achieve this goal has been to allocate sufficient funds within the overall budget for the 2007 budget is explosive, and that the investment would contribute a significant role P j achieving this ambitious project.

Will the government of National Unity to improve the living conditions of all citizens and development of services sectors and to support all institutions of education and the promotion of industrial and agricultural activity and support sports and cultural movement.

We call upon all the Iraqi people to preserve the Quran and its national unity and the social fabric and deny anyone who tries to stop the wheel of development and construction, and cooperation with the state bodies for the implementation of projects for the service of the nation and citizens.

-- December 5, 2006 7:41 PM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, you are an awfully bright person. I think you have a few books in you, should you be in the position in life to devote a few years to a project.

-- December 5, 2006 9:21 PM ∞

---

Robert S wrote:

I thought everyone could use a little refreshment. I saw this in Saturday’s News. After reading the article although about volleyball it’s ironic that it covers so much about what has been written lately about the changes the Muslims are going to have to make. I think by the time the Muslims are in the numbers to overtake us they will have assimilated themselves into the mainstream population. The Qatar Muslim women seem to be willing to play and compete in volleyball and they have till 2016 Summer games to adjust their modesty level to wear the appropriate uniform (Bikini) or in the event that they change the Olympic rules to make all the contestants in the Olympics in Qatar, should they win the bid, wear the Burqas on the playing field. I seen a cartoon depicting the Burqas clad Muslim women on the playing field in the middle of the Desert in the blinding sun and blazing heat but have failed to locate it. Seemed somewhat humorous. I better call TBS to find out for sure.

In Muslim world, beach volleyball bikinis create cultural clash

The Associated Press
Published: December 2, 2006
DOHA, Qatar: When Salim Al-Nabit and his friends went out to see beach volleyball for the first time, they left their wives at home.
Al-Nabit said he was willing to force himself to watch the skimpily clad women play, but that he certainly wouldn't want his wife watching.
He was only there himself, he said, because it was a matter of national honor.
"We don't see this a lot in Qatar," Al-Nabit said. "I think most people think it is outrageous. But we accept it because it is important for our country. We want others to see us as a generous and hospitable people, willing to accept their ways, even if we don't agree."
Beach volleyball's penchant for bikinis has touched off a bit of a cultural clash in this conservative Muslim city, which by hosting the Asian Games, a regional sports extravaganza, is trying to bolster its bid to bring the 2016 Summer Olympics to the Middle East.
The city has transformed itself in an effort to woo the Olympics. It has spent billions on infrastructure and sparkling new sports facilities, including the 50,000-seat "Aspire" stadium.
Doha organizers brought in 80 truckloads of sand from dunes in the desert outside the city to create the proper beach setting for the volleyball competition. They then even had the sand tested by a Canadian contractor to make sure it was just right.
But some things are just too much to ask.
Though 16 Muslim nations are represented at the Asian Games, only one, Iraq, is competing in women's beach volleyball. And its team, sisters Lisa and Lida Agasi, are Christians.
Do they feel uncomfortable?
"No, not at all," Lida said after her first game on Saturday. But their coach noted they seemed a bit overwhelmed because "all eyes were upon them."
Even so, the Iraqis wore considerably more conservative outfits than their opponents, the Japanese. While the Agasis were clad in yellow, two-piece tights that went down to mid thigh and covered most of their shoulders, the Japanese pair's uniforms were so small that the country name had to be abbreviated on their bikini bottoms.
The Qatari women are sitting out the event, though Qatar has teams for everything from archery to skeet shooting.
"It's not good," said Parvana Khoory, who watched from the almost-empty stands round the 1,500-seat center court dressed in black from head to toe. "We want a woman to cover all of her body. I think this discourages Muslim women from playing this sport."
Some of the players agree that the outfits don't need to be as brief.
"I felt kind of funny about it at first," said Japan's Satoko Urata. "But what can you do? It doesn't bother me now. They have uniforms like this in swimming and track, too."
That has been a sticking point with Muslim athletes as well. Few Muslim teams here include women swimmers. Of those that do, some, like Pakistan, prefer its women wear full-body swimsuits.
Beach volleyball has strict rules dictating what constitutes proper attire. Women can wear one- or two-piece uniforms, and that usually means they play in bikinis and sunglasses.
Competition manager Ramon Suzara, an official with the Asian Beach Volleyball Association, said that allowances have been made for Muslims.
"They can wear what they want, so long as it is appropriate," he said.
Suzara added, however, that he hopes Muslims will come to accept the same kind of outfits that the athletes of other nations wear.
"This is sport in the 21st century. I think this will be an eye-opener for Doha."
It was for Al-Nabit, who confessed that, in the end, he enjoyed watching the competition.
"But I felt very shy about it," he said.



-- December 5, 2006 10:19 PM ∞

---

TOLD YOU wrote:

13 December is the day. COME ON IQD. Prepare to SELL.

-- December 5, 2006 11:14 PM ∞

---

TOLD YOU wrote:

TIME to Start a new post. This one takes to long to load!!!

-- December 5, 2006 11:17 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

Hi All,

It would seem that everyone has been debating political, religious and military options left to USA since I last wrote in. It has been very interesting reading. I had to play catch up reading as my internet was down for a time.

I have also been greatly involved in holiday shopping and wrapping presents for family and extended family.

I had not seen much news from Iraq on television--much of it as you all had discussed, politics and not real news!

I am glad to see you all still thinking though the issues.

I just wanted to let you all know, I am still around.

Laura

-- December 6, 2006 1:29 AM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

All,

Just a few comments. Someone wrote about the Romans and how they were successful in civilizing people by building forts and living among the people for a while.

--The above strategy sounded much like our USA bases, we appear to have built inside of Iraq.

I have been thinking for awhile that USA strategy should be much like what General McArthur did with Japan at the end of the war. He created a military dictatorship--until the government could get on its feet! Our military would treat all insurgents the same...Sunni, Shiti's and foreign fighters to keep civilian order.

It will be interesting to see what Iraq study group under Baker will recommend on this conflict.

Sara,

Your comments about this war being a spiritual war is a reminder that should bring every Christian to prayer. Thank you for your scriptural references.

Laura

Also, Rome had its downfall. As a super power, Rome lost it's ability to influence people (winning hearts and minds of people). USA needs to win the people over and this will take time.

-- December 6, 2006 1:51 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Announcement No.(820)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 820 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Wednesday 2006 / 12/ 6 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 9 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1426 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1424 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 14.700.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 848.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 14.700.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 848.000

-- December 6, 2006 6:37 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Roger,

You are so right when you recognize the paranoia and confusion and trouble that is being stirred up...

Remember, it is to this world -wide cause that Amadinejahd believes he was born---the one who will create the chaotic situation world wide that will allow the 12th Iman ( the Muslim Savior)to be ushered in and destroy every last infidel and Jew on the face of the earth.

In that sense he is the reincarnate of Hitler. Only Hitler's goals were to preserve the Arian race, the Muslim goals, according to their holy manuscripts, are to make all mankind faithful to Allah, and those who are not are to be destroyed. anyone involved in that effort will reap great rewards in the after life.

Tim,

I think more than anything, Roger is reluctant to deal with the awful possibilities that might prevail in dealing with the Muslim issue. And I have to say that I can't blame him.I don't see any evidence that Muslims are afraid of Christians or Jews. They simply hate them because of their disblief in Allah.

Christians and Jews are afraid of the Muslims, and justifiably so. They do not make idle threats.

Roger concludes that paranoia abounds, but the oposite of paranoia is denial.

In this case I would rather lean to the side of paranoia, if you will, because the stakes are too high if the end thereof rings true.

Sort of like NOT buying Dinar---the stakes are too high if you lose out...

I also agree with you that some climatic event is in the making and one that will turn the tide of events in human history.

My hope and prayer is that it will be the Rapture and return of Jesus Christ to earth. But know one really knows when that will happen. The only thing that I am sure of is that He is in control, mostly cause He made it all, and ultimately has the last and most important say.

For now, these discussions are interesting and in some ways entertaining. However, I wonder what our conversations will be like down the road as world events unfold.

-- December 6, 2006 6:38 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Told You,

Do you info you can share about the 13th? or was that a shake of the Pom Pom?

-- December 6, 2006 6:44 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The International compact will be announced next week and will add some positive news to peruse and ponder.....

-- December 6, 2006 8:24 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

"Signalling the start of reconstruction projects, the investment law, which we drafted, has been passed by the parliament. The law is expected to attract national and foreign capital to finance the country's major projects. Besides, it will provide the investors with wide opportunities and will protect investment promotion laws in Iraq.

The government has also drafted an oil and gas law, which will be presented to the parliament for ratification. The law is envisaged to play a pivotal role in strengthening the country's unity. Furthermore, it will ensure the fair distribution of all national riches to all Iraqi areas as national riches, particularly oil and gas, are - as stipulated in the constitution - the property of all the Iraqis."

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/12390

-- December 6, 2006 8:54 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

An article from www.dinartrade.com

A call to establish a higher national council for economy
Negative phenomena have emerged during the past period Montasser Al-Amara, Chairman of the Iraqi parliamentarians Federation and member of the Economic Committee in the former National Assembly, called the government to: "establish a high national council of Iraqi economy", saying that: "the Council must have the highest decision in the Iraqi economic aspect, and must include specialized Iraqi experiences and competencies from all blocs, political movements and independents".

He added: "This project must be started as soon as possible, and must be accompanied with a center for strategic studies formed of specialists, technocrats, university professors and economic experts, whatever their views are, for the purpose of planning and counseling".

Al-Amara explained: "The deterioration of the Iraqi economy and the negative phenomena that have occurred in it is due to the lack of centralized economic decision and that Iraq lacks the healthy economic climate".

He pointed out: "that the Iraqi economy is dependent almost entirely on oil. This means that the economy has no clear methodology, but more than that, it depends on a chaotic one. It is not a free economy, not an oriented one or any other kind of economy which is the main reason for the economic problems, as well as being the reason why foreign investors did not enter Iraq and not the security status as claimed by the some, since many Iraqi regions are totally safe, but was not entered by foreign investors".

Al-Amara called: "that the council must include experts from the ministries concerned with this subject: Oil, Electricity, Industry and others, in order to be able to draw ambitious and strategic plans for developing the vital joints of life". He said: "The Iraqi economy has the expertise and competencies that qualifies it for the advancement, but what is lacking in this area is good governance and bold decisions".

He explained: "that those two points fall within the jurisdiction of the Supreme National Council of Iraqi Economy, which has a realistic and clear approach to run the economic resources, as well as being an important and active administrative center in making the economic decision".

Al-Amara stressed that: "the ideal policy to attract foreign capital to Iraq is to create motivations higher than the attractions found in other countries. The most important of these motivations is a stable economic policy, because foreign investors will not risk investing in Iraq if there is no stability in the Iraqi economy".

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 6, 2006 10:00 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

I listened to Robert Gates yesterday as he appeared before the Senate committee and I must say I really do not know what to make of his testimony.

While he did not mention supporting the war in Iraq, he did not really say he opposed it. It seems he is playing both sides of the fence during hearings. He may indeed express his views after his confirmation.

I am interested in what all of you think about Robert Gates as the next Secretary of Defense. I personally think we needed someone more like Casper Weinberger, but this is just my personal opinion.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 6, 2006 10:06 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Told You:

I too am interested in the meaning behind your criptic statement: "13 December is the day. COME ON IQD. Prepare to SELL." Please fill us in on the motivation for these remarks. What sources if any have confirmed the date of December 13th as the day to sell?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 6, 2006 10:11 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole, you may be right. Roger may not want to deal with the possibility of just how nasty this thing with the Muslims may get, nor how nasty some of them are. Roger has stated, or implied he is not exactly the religious kind. He seems to rely on human reason to understand this conflict. That is admirable and has much to recommend it. I value his energy, his many useful observations and analysis he brings to this discussion. I think just observing, looking at the facts in any situation is fine and useful, and vitally necessary, but that that approach to life also has it's limitations. I have maintained for a long time that it is more diffult for someone who does not have a religious background to understand a situation that is premised on intense religious feelings. A devout Jew or Christian is far more likely to understand a devout Muslim than is a non-religious person. A devout Jew or Christian may not agree with Muslim ideology, may in fact with great passion disagree with it, but he or she can at least understand intense religious experience, because he or she has experienced it in their own life. Whereas a non-religious person looks at both camps, scratches and shakes his head, unable to comprehend the motivation or feeling or world-view of a deeply religious person. Human reason as a guide to understanding this conflict has it's strengths, but it also has it's limitations. So, if Roger, like the baby Moses once was,..... is, "in denial",... I think that's where that is coming from!

Or,......he might just like messin with your mind!!

That being said, my suspicion is that Roger, in fact, has a bit of religious background, but for what may have been good reasons at the time, has rejected that way of seeing things.

-- December 6, 2006 11:06 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Tim Bitts.. I enjoy writing, maybe one day the Lord will move me to write a book.

Glad to see you still around, Laura.. :)

Thanks for the drive by posting, TOLD YOU.. but is there anything more behind your rumor we can sink our teeth into? Date projections have come and gone.. why is this one special? Based upon.. what?

Okie - Thanks for the "Maliki reaching out and about to ratify the investment law" post. :)
Also, thanks for your post that The International compact will be announced next week.

Roger - Hope to have you back on the board soon.. til then, take care and my best to you in all your endeavors.

Chris - Thanks again for the auction numbers.

Rob N - Thanks again for your posts. I have no comment on Robert Gates as the next Secretary of Defense as he has not yet shown his colors (viewpoints) to comment upon.

Sara.

-- December 6, 2006 12:46 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Top aide of Iraq Qaeda chief killed
Dec 6, 2006

BAGHDAD (AFP) - A close aide of the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al Masri, has been killed by Iraqi security forces, national security advisor Muwaffaq al-Rubaie said Wednesday.

"I would like to announce that our forces killed a few days ago Abu Taha, Abu Ayyub al Masri's right-hand man," Rubaie told reporters, without giving any details on the incident.

He said security forces were also slowly inching closer to Masri himself.

"The noose is tightening around Masri as we have arrested several of his men," he said.

Rubaie said Taha was the second top aide to Masri to be killed after Abu Omar al Faruk who was shot dead earlier this year.

Egyptian-born Masri took over as the head of al Qaeda in Iraq after the killing of his predecessor Abu Musab al Zarqawi on June 7 by US forces.

Rubaie also revealed that security forces were targeting a number of operators from the Ansar al Sunna group whose head "resides in Syria and plans attacks on our country from there."

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=58498

-- December 6, 2006 12:58 PM ∞

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GROUND POUNDER wrote:

Hello all,this is the only thing I can link told you's rumor to. I Copied it from www.rolclub.com post #114 Are you ready for this? Talk about a ruuuumor- here it is! Only those that would trust someone that has been a long time member of the Dinar gang will give this any serious consideration. Talk about a wild story that sounds unbelievable- this is it right here. I'm on the phone with Oscar as I type this. Two blocks away is J sitting in the computer room with "uncle Oscar". They are telling me the credentials of the famous "professor". I can hear J in the background. I get to type the story because they prefer my style to Oscar's. One last thing before I start.... We are begging you- DO NOT PURSUE ANY INVESTIGATION TO "CONFIRM" THIS IN ANY WAY THAT WOULD INVOLVE PERSONAL CONTACT WITH THE PROFESSOR, THE SCHOOL OR M.L. PLEASE! If you don't believe this rumor and think its BS that is okay, our feelings won't be hurt. We also understand that some feel it is their duty to "protect the innocent" members of the world by exposing falsehood, fraud, etc. This is a just rumor and we are asking to let it remain that way- PLEASE! We are so afraid to post this as there are those very few, that could care less if they destroy a trust between two people that would have devastating, lifelong consequences, in their effort to dig out and obtain... the "truth".

J confides in us that the professor is in truth, of Iraqi origin. He is an older gentleman that attended college somewhere at the age of 16. By the age of 23 he graduated as.... a heart surgeon!?! At a later date (don't know when?, don't know why?) he continued his education in a different venue, having an interest in the securities/investment industry. J tells us that the professor explained that he was taught by Charles Schwab himself! He claimed that when he worked on the floor of the stock exchange for M. L. he was making about a half million-per DAY, for the company! He is quite wealthy as his percentage was a mere 10% of the "take", but as mentioned previously he has a passion to teach, which is why he does so at that famous university (no, it's not Tepper! I live near Erie but I don't know anything about Tepper, not sure if I even heard of that one before. One of my 5 daughters goes to the Honors Collage at IUP though). Anyway, he does continue to work with M.L. developing foreign investment portfolios and by the way, here is a great research project for the snoops- go to M.L.'s website and dig around a little. Oscar said he did so out of curiosity today and found they have an investment involving Dinar!

Here is the exciting part- (are you still awake?) Less than 2 weeks ago the professor went to... you guessed it- Iraq! What he did while he was over there is unknown to me at this time. But when he came back, that is when he told J to "get ready to exchange some of your dinar BY the 12th-14th of December." J told us tonight that the professor said the value would be $1.49 US to the dinar!!! (Yes, that is a little different than stated in our previous post- sorry we got it wrong and were a little low!) Oscar told me that J said the professor does indeed have contacts in... the banking sector

There you have it- a third hand rumor. So sorry it took so long to get here- that's another story! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! God Bless!
Blessings On YOU! AL & Oscar & J. I hope this is true! see you at the pig roast.
Merry X-Mass

-- December 6, 2006 2:13 PM ∞

---

GROUND POUNDER wrote:

Hello all,this is the only thing I can link told you's rumor to. I Copied it from www.rolclub.com post #114 Are you ready for this? Talk about a ruuuumor- here it is! Only those that would trust someone that has been a long time member of the Dinar gang will give this any serious consideration. Talk about a wild story that sounds unbelievable- this is it right here. I'm on the phone with Oscar as I type this. Two blocks away is J sitting in the computer room with "uncle Oscar". They are telling me the credentials of the famous "professor". I can hear J in the background. I get to type the story because they prefer my style to Oscar's. One last thing before I start.... We are begging you- DO NOT PURSUE ANY INVESTIGATION TO "CONFIRM" THIS IN ANY WAY THAT WOULD INVOLVE PERSONAL CONTACT WITH THE PROFESSOR, THE SCHOOL OR M.L. PLEASE! If you don't believe this rumor and think its BS that is okay, our feelings won't be hurt. We also understand that some feel it is their duty to "protect the innocent" members of the world by exposing falsehood, fraud, etc. This is a just rumor and we are asking to let it remain that way- PLEASE! We are so afraid to post this as there are those very few, that could care less if they destroy a trust between two people that would have devastating, lifelong consequences, in their effort to dig out and obtain... the "truth".

J confides in us that the professor is in truth, of Iraqi origin. He is an older gentleman that attended college somewhere at the age of 16. By the age of 23 he graduated as.... a heart surgeon!?! At a later date (don't know when?, don't know why?) he continued his education in a different venue, having an interest in the securities/investment industry. J tells us that the professor explained that he was taught by Charles Schwab himself! He claimed that when he worked on the floor of the stock exchange for M. L. he was making about a half million-per DAY, for the company! He is quite wealthy as his percentage was a mere 10% of the "take", but as mentioned previously he has a passion to teach, which is why he does so at that famous university (no, it's not Tepper! I live near Erie but I don't know anything about Tepper, not sure if I even heard of that one before. One of my 5 daughters goes to the Honors Collage at IUP though). Anyway, he does continue to work with M.L. developing foreign investment portfolios and by the way, here is a great research project for the snoops- go to M.L.'s website and dig around a little. Oscar said he did so out of curiosity today and found they have an investment involving Dinar!

Here is the exciting part- (are you still awake?) Less than 2 weeks ago the professor went to... you guessed it- Iraq! What he did while he was over there is unknown to me at this time. But when he came back, that is when he told J to "get ready to exchange some of your dinar BY the 12th-14th of December." J told us tonight that the professor said the value would be $1.49 US to the dinar!!! (Yes, that is a little different than stated in our previous post- sorry we got it wrong and were a little low!) Oscar told me that J said the professor does indeed have contacts in... the banking sector

There you have it- a third hand rumor. So sorry it took so long to get here- that's another story! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! God Bless!
Blessings On YOU! AL & Oscar & J. I hope this is true! see you at the pig roast.
Merry X-Mass

-- December 6, 2006 2:14 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Tim Bitts, I think you may be right that religious people understand other religious people.
I thought this would help:

Four Views of Jihad by top Islamic Scholars

Islamofascist prisoners, detained in places like Guantanamo Bay, etc, are being handed a Koran and are then allowed to read it. But they are continuing to interpret the words they read through the narrow and distorted view they have been given by their Islamofascist leaders. They know nothing else. Instead, they should be given written and oral debates between top Islamic scholars showing the different sides to the debate on Jihad. This will allow them to develop critical thinking skills and may cause them to have doubts about the certitude they have about their own theological position. There are many good, top scholars who have spoken out against the interpretation these jihad extremists hold. They should be given a voice in a book/tapes similar in format to "Four Christian views of War" by Robert G. Clouse: http://www.amazon.com/War-Christian-Robert-G-Clouse/dp/0830813098/sr=1-1/qid=1165422437/ref=sr_1_1/002-5801527-8925669?ie=UTF8&s=books

The goal should be deprogramming - just as with any c.ult which allows ONLY its own viewpoint to be given. These people should not leave custody without at least proving a proficiency in understanding the other equally Islamic views to the contrary of what they believe. They must be challenged in the area that "hardwires" them to their leaders and causes them to give unquestioning obedience to them to the point of dying at the command of their leaders in what is really a false cause (remember the statistic, above, that 90% of Muslims don't believe these teachings - that is with reason). Perhaps some will remain Islamofascists, however, many others will modify their view and think more critically about the issue - questioning if they are acting in the best interests of the Koran and their own eternal salvation.

There have been many great Islamic teachers who have bravely taught against the teachings of the Islamofascists and been killed for doing so (particularly in Iraq). Their writings/teachings should be culled for the gems of wisdom they held which were so right that they threatened to topple the Islamofascist theological position - enough of a threat that the Islamofascists worked to eliminate their voices. These gems should then be distilled into a potent medicine for this ailment which causes tikfirit bloodletting and damages the true Muslim cause. This will undermine the ideological support for this radical position and the resulting killing of other Muslims - ultimately decreasing the death toll in Iraq. It will also cause these radical adherents to rethink their view that murdering infidels is a necessity to the Islamic faith - helping to end the war on terrorism.

I believe that it should be a top priority of the group (referred to above, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53190 ) who are going to do publishing against the Islamofascists (as they did against Communism) to get a work like this out there and widely disseminated to the Islamic public. The Islamofascists can kill Islamic clerics, but the truths in their writings/tapes should live after them to continue to give these martyrs and patriots a voice in the debate for all time to come.

1Co 8:1 Knowledge puffs up, but love builds.

1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knows any thing, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.

1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is recognised by Him.

These martyred men of Islam sought to build Iraq because love builds. It is those who know nothing yet as they ought to know, and have not even been allowed to hear these martyr's dissenting voices - those that are puffed up in their own creed and who seek to force it down the throats of the undiscerning young - that must be dealt with. These Islamofascists act without regard to the majority confession of the entire body of Islamic scholarship and viewpoints. If the Islamics are too fearful to deal with this and personally rise up and address the Islamofascists (death threats do that to many), these books/tapes from the hands of their martyrs will do the job for them (they can't kill them a second time, can they? - And those who hear their presentations will listen to those who died to say this to them with respect).

Note in the Scripture above the immediate reference to loving God after turning from puffed up knowledge in their own creed - thinking they "know something" - to embracing love and an openness to all religious truth (not just the Islamofascist single viewpoint) which is humbling to men. These men need to know the truth in love (which humbles), even within the confines of the whole of their own religious belief system, so as not to be slaves to murderous tyrants.

Sara.

-- December 6, 2006 2:40 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

ALGERIA: 10 IMAMS FIRED FOR INCITING VIOLENCE

Algiers, 5 Dec. (AKI) - The Algerian minister of religious affairs has fired ten imams in the past six months who were charged with preaching violence in their mosques, reports said Tuesday. According to Algerian daily al-Khabar, another eight clerics were fired for the same reason last year. The ministry has reportedly withrawn the imams' licences to preach in the country and suspended their salaries.

According to sources quoted by the Algerian paper, the ministry approved the measure after receiving complaints from citizens and police reports.

Another 80 imams received formal complaints from the ministry for supporting opposition parties and raising funds for groups considered fundamentalist.

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.366021131&par=

Why can the country of Algeria manage to do this to protect itself, but the US cannot?
The greatest strength of the US is its freedoms..
including its religious freedoms and tolerance..
is it also its greatest weakness?

Sara.

-- December 6, 2006 4:40 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.safedinar.com

Changes in Iraq Policy Seem Inevitable
12/5/2006

Changes in President George W. Bush's Iraq Policy Now Seem InevitableBy TOM RAUM
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Make no mistake about it, change is coming in President Bush's Iraq policy. After stubbornly pursuing a stay-the-course policy into a fourth year of war, Bush is being told it's time for a new direction by everyone from U.S. voters and a blue-ribbon panel to his own national security adviser and ousted defense secretary.

The big question is, how far is Bush willing to bend? And can he be persuaded to change a policy he's never seemed to doubt?

"I'm listening to the Iraqis, I'm going to listen to members of Congress, I want to listen to Baker-Hamilton," Bush told Fox News Channel about upcoming recommendations, including those due Wednesday from the prestigious Iraq Study Group headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Rep. Lee Hamilton, D-Ind.

"My attitude is I ought to absorb and listen to everything that's being said because I'm not satisfied with the progress being made in Iraq," the president said Monday.

Bush faces some difficult choices.

He may have to finally back away from sweeping imperatives such as spreading democracy across the Middle East and his oft-stated assertion that the U.S. won't stand down until Iraq can defend itself.

But Bush may do it gently, and he might not even acknowledge that a course change is under way.

"His default position may be to make changes while saying that he's not making changes," said Fred Greenstein, a political science professor at Princeton University.

"I just don't think he's got any room to just dig in and not do anything. That would be like jumping off a cliff," Greenstein said. "And Bush doesn't strike me as a guy who jumps off a lot of cliffs."

Bush had been gradually moving away from "stay the course," although variations on the theme still crop up, including as recently as last week during a news conference in Amman, Jordan, with Iraqi President Nouri al-Maliki. "So we'll be in Iraq until the job is complete," Bush said, adding that he wasn't looking for "some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq."

But many in Washington, Democrats and Republicans alike, were looking for just that a graceful exit.

And many hoped that the Baker-Hamilton report would provide such an opportunity.

"There is no obvious correct policy in Iraq," said Michael O'Hanlon, a foreign policy analyst at the Brookings Institution and one of the Iraq Study Group's many advisers. "What matters is getting a better policy in Iraq."

O'Hanlon said Bush needs to listen to the panel's recommendations. Still, O'Hanlon said he is worried that expectations were being set too high, with some people "presupposing that because Baker and Hamilton are involved, they must necessarily create wisdom from on high."

The Iraqi Study Group is widely expected to recommend a plan for the U.S. to begin withdrawing its 15 combat brigades from Iraq whether Iraqi forces are ready or not.

And, while the report is not expected to call for a formal timetable, by some accounts it will suggest that the bulk of combat forces be out by 2008, and the U.S. role transformed from combat to one of support. There are now about 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

The study group also is expected to advocate a more aggressive diplomatic effort in the region, including reaching out to Iran and Syria, an overture that Bush has resisted strenuously.

Bush's stubbornness may be a factor in what could be a rocky period ahead as his administration slowly adjusts to changes and tries to justify them. He's never been shy about proclaiming progress in Iraq, even while acknowledging setbacks.

"His rhetoric is at odds with the general momentum" toward a U.S. withdrawal, said P.J. Crowley, a military and national security aide in the Clinton administration.

Crowley said he thinks the administration will take the Iraq Study Group's recommendations under advisement, then base a rationale for troop reduction on al-Maliki's own claim that Iraqi forces could take control by June.

"Whether the administration can afford to wait six months before all of this takes place remains to be seen," Crowley said.

Recently leaked memos show dissent even among top members of Bush's national security team toward Bush's long-held "stay the course" strategy.

One revealed that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld called for a "major adjustment" in U.S. tactics on Nov. 6 the day before an election that cost Republicans the Congress and Rumsfeld his job as defense secretary.

In another leaked memo, Stephen Hadley, Bush's national security adviser, judges al-Maliki either "ignorant of what is going on" in Iraq or not up to the job of controlling sectarian violence.

"It used to be when you talked to people inside the administration, you'd hear one consistent message on Iraq. Now, everyone you call is telling you something different," said Michele Flournoy, a former deputy secretary of defense for policy and now an analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Defiance at the White House is slowly giving way to setting the stage for changes that may be inevitable.

Hadley, for instance, now speaks of a "new way forward." And Bush, meeting on Monday with Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, the Shiite leader of the largest bloc in Iraq's parliament, cited a "need to give the government Iraq more capability as soon as possible."

EDITOR'S NOTE Tom Raum has covered Washington for The Associated Press since 1973, including five presidencies.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 6, 2006 5:57 PM ∞

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Chris wrote:

GROUNDPOUNDER,

Thanks for the rumor. Sometimes we're so hungry for info that we will take a rumor.

Is it possible that you are related to "told you so"?

Sara, Thanks for your thanks. I'm traveling this week and I don't usually have internet access. Since I do then I want to keep posting the exchange rate as it changes at a painfully slow pace. I've seen paint dry faster than the dinar change.

-- December 6, 2006 6:53 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Report: Hamas met delegation of Democrats
Source claims U.S. party willing to hold dialogue with terror group
Dec 6, 2006 By Aaron Klein

JERUSALEM – Hamas met with a delegation of "important Democrats" who expressed interest in relations with the Palestinian terror group even if it doesn't recognize the right of Israel to exist, a Palestinian news website claimed today.

Maannews quoted a source in the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority stating the terror group felt it important to meet with members of the Democratic Party since, the Hamas source said, the party will likely win 2008 presidential elections.

According to the report, the alleged meeting with the Democrats took place in a European country following a series of preliminary meetings with representatives from the British and French governments.

The Hamas source did not name which Democrats the terror group claims to have met.

Terrorists: 'Vote Democrat'

Last month, just prior to U.S. midterm elections, WND conducted a series of exclusive interviews in which prominent Middle East terrorist leaders said they hoped Americans would sweep the Democrats into power because of the party's position on withdrawing from Iraq, a move, the terrorists explained, that would ensure victory for the worldwide Islamic resistance.

The terrorists told WND an electoral win for the Democrats would prove to them Americans are "tired." They rejected statements from some prominent Democrats in the U.S. that a withdrawal from Iraq would end the insurgency, explaining an evacuation would prove resistance works and would compel jihadists to continue fighting until America is destroyed.

"Muhammad Saadi, a senior leader of Islamic Jihad in the northern West Bank town of Jenin, said the Democrats' talk of withdrawal from Iraq makes him feel "proud."

"As Arabs and Muslims we feel proud of this talk," he told WND. "Very proud from the great successes of the Iraqi resistance. This success that brought the big superpower of the world to discuss a possible withdrawal."

Abu Ayman, an Islamic Jihad leader in Jenin, said he is "emboldened" by those in America who compare the war in Iraq to Vietnam.

"[The mujahedeen fighters] brought the Americans to speak for the first time seriously and sincerely that Iraq is becoming a new Vietnam and that they should fix a schedule for their withdrawal from Iraq," boasted Abu Ayman.

Terrorists laugh at Pelosi's comments

Many Democratic politicians and some from the Republican Party have stated a withdrawal from Iraq would end the insurgency there.

In a recent interview with CBS's "60 Minutes," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, stated, "The jihadists (are) in Iraq. But that doesn't mean we stay there. They'll stay there as long as we're there."

WND read Pelosi's remarks to the terror leaders, who unanimously rejected her contention an American withdrawal would end the insurgency.

Islamic Jihad's Saadi, laughing, stated, "There is no chance that the resistance will stop."

Jihad Jaara said an American withdrawal would "mark the beginning of the collapse of this tyrant empire (U.S.)."

"Therefore, a victory in Iraq would be a greater defeat for America than in Vietnam."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53257

-- December 6, 2006 7:04 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

ABC's Karl: Why Should the Iraq Study Group Report Outweigh Military Advice?
Posted by Megan McCormack on December 6, 2006 - 15:25.

On Wednesday morning, the highly anticipated report from the Iraq Study Group [ISG] was released to the public. The ISG’s report contained seventy-nine recommendations for the United States in its effort to lessen the violence in Iraq and protect American forces. One of the major recommendations of the panel was a call for the withdrawal of most U.S. combat troops by early 2008.

During an 11am press conference Wednesday, Jonathan Karl, ABC’s senior national security correspondent asked the panel pointedly why their recommendations should outweigh the advice President Bush receives from military commanders on the ground:

Jonathan Karl, ABC News: "You're certainly a group of distinguished elder statesmen, but tell me why should the President give more weight to what you all have said, given that, as I understand, you went to Iraq once–with the exception of Senator Robb, none of you made it out of the Green Zone–why should he give your recommendations any more weight than what he’s hearing from his commanders on the ground in Iraq?"

ABC’s Jessica Yellin wondered on GMA December 1 whether President Bush would "listen" to the ISG’s purported call for troop withdrawals and fretted that the administration was sounding "resistant" to the proposal:

Jessica Yellin: "Those recommendations will be out in a matter of days, and the question is, will the President listen and make plans to bring the troops home?...But the administration is already sounding resistant, insisting when it comes to a withdrawal--"

Condoleezza Rice: "I think we have to have it dictated by when the Iraqis are capable of taking these, these responsibilities on."

It should be noted that in response to Karl’s question at the press conference, ISG co-chair Lee Hamilton stated the panel recognizes that its report is only one of many, and that there will be many recommendations and suggestions for the President and the military to consider.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9494

-- December 6, 2006 8:00 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Ground Pounder? Ground Pounder?
Now thats a new one....how about it Sara...you and I are probably some of the oldest on this board...have you ever heard of this handle....I does not ring a bell to me...

On the surface...I believe the poster gave it the right name.....

-- December 6, 2006 8:24 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

60 Billion Minutes
Posted by Bob Owens on December 6, 2006 - 14:32.

Mark Tapscott of the Washington Examiner weighs in on how the Associated Press can extricate themselves from the Jamil Hussein/burning men story in Iraq. Sound familiar? Quote:

"What AP appears not to grasp is that the most serious questions about its credibility are already in the minds of millions of people, thanks in part to the bloggers, but also to the few mainstream media organizations that have covered the growing controversy.

What is most puzzling about the AP reaction is its failure to do the one thing that would instantly put the critics in their place - produce Capt. Jamil Hussein. If he is in fact an Iraqi police captain, it is impossible to understand why he cannot be produced and his credentials verified.

"Captain Jamil Hussein" is but one of 14 Iraqi-sounding names of sources quoted by AP that U.S. military officials say cannot be verified as credible sources."

===end of quote==

Produce Jamil Hussein. Brilliant!,

By this point, the Associated Press has almost assuredly tried to contact Jamil Hussein to come on camera, in uniform, in his police office to prove that he does in fact exist, thereby shutting down this gathering storm.

Just as assuredly, the present silence from the Associated Press on the matter indicates that they have likely failed to produce their source for over 60 news stories.

To give you an idea of the scale of this apparent fraud, consider the case of veteran freelance photojournalist Adnan Hajj from earlier this year...

Hajj was exposed for tampering with a photo from the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah conflict, where he added dense smoke to a picture to make an Israeli bombing seem more intense than it actually was. Shortly thereafter, another manipulated photo was uncovered, and other photos came under intense scrutiny. Reuters, who had worked with Hajj for over a decade, responded by disassociating itself from him (effectively firing him) and removing all 920 photos he had for sale.

Hajj was just one reporter, caught manipulating images that most would agree over-dramatized and mis-characterized events, but images that would not have been significant news on their own if they had been real.

The story that brought into question the existence of Jamil Hussein is a much larger scandal in the making.

The allegation that six men were pulled from a Sunni mosque (one of four Sunni mosques the original story claimed were burned and blown up) by Shiite militants and then burned alive is a horrific story on multiple levels, one that media cited as a key example of how brutal sectarian violence in Iraq had come. And yet, there was an in a problem; a lack of evidence that any of the violence claimed actually took place.

Not a single one of the four mosques claimed blown up in the AP story actually were. Only one mosque could be verified to have any fire damage, and the minor damage confirmed by the Iraqi government to one mosque was consistent with unverified Shiite militia accounts that a molotov cocktail had been thrown into the building and quickly extinguished. There is zero evidence that a mosque door was blown open by an RPG as the Associated Press claimed. There is no physical evidence that six men were pulled into the street by militiamen, doused in kerosene, set on fire, and then shot in the head.

There is no physical evidence of burning men, nor bullet-scarred streets where anonymous eyewitnesses claimed the men were shot in the head once they had quit moving. There are no bodies, and no graves. There are only two named sources, one of which has recanted his story. The other named source for the AP story? Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein.

Unlike Adnan Hajj who only manipulated comparatively minor photo elements and who might have gone unnoticed were it not for sharp-eyed bloggers, this AP story was immediately carried and reprinted around the world as fact. We now know that the events described may have been entirely fictionalized as part of an insurgent propaganda campaign, one foisted upon a complacent news organization with very few checks and balances for accuracy on their stringer-based reporting methods.

We also know that Jamil Hussein has consistently been a source for at least 60 news stories over two years, and that Jamil Hussein is just one of many apparently fake sources that has driven Associated Press reporting in Iraq.

This presents us with the unsettling possibility that the Associated Press has no idea how much of the news it has reported out of Iraq since the 2003 invasion is in fact real, and how much they reported was propaganda. The failure of accountability here is potentially of epic proportions.

When producer Mary Mapes and anchor Dan Rather ran faked Texas Air National Guard records on 60 Minutes, it was undoubtedly the largest news media scandal of 2004, and yet, it was an isolated scandal, identified within hours, affecting one network and one show in particular.

This developing Associated Press implosion may go back as far as two years, affecting as many as 60 stories from just this one allegedly fake policeman alone. And Jamil Hussein is just one of more than a dozen potentially fake Iraqi policemen used in news reports the AP disseminates around the world. This does not begin to attempt to account for non-offical sources which the AP will have an even harder time substantiating. Quite literally, almost all AP reporting from Iraq not verified from reporters of other news organizations is now suspect, and with good reason.

Instead of affecting one show on one network watched by 14 million viewers as Rathergate did, "Jamilgate" means the Associated Press may have been delivering news of questionable accuracy to one billion people a day for two years or more. In this evolving instance of faux journalism, "60 Minutes" is now potentially 60 billion false impressions, or more.

A principled, professional news organization owes its consumers the truth. To date, the Associated Press, as voiced by comments from officers international editor John Daniszewski and executive editor Kathleen Carroll, has refused to address the rampant inconsistencies in the "burning men" story, produce physical evidence proving their allegations, or produce star source Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein. Arrogantly, they attack the messenger (both U.S military and Iraqi government sources and bloggers), and insist we must believe them, even though they give us no compelling reason to do so, and many reasons to doubt them.

They have not proved their claims with facts, nor produced the police captain they have cited as a source on multiple stories over two years.

Their continuing failure to substantiate their story with evidence runs directly counter to their own stated principles. The Associated Press is guilty of using a terminally flawed newsgathering methodology that makes their news organization an easy target for those desiring to insert of propaganda as news. What's worse is that their leadership clearly doesn't care.

The leaders of the Associated Press seem to have little interest in living up to their own stated values and principles, and in doing so, have betrayed that essential trust that they must have to survive.

Update: As if to underscore that point (via Instapundit):

In nearly every conversation, the soldiers, Marines and contractors expressed they were upset with the coverage of the war in Iraq in general, and the public perception of the daily situation on the ground. The felt the media was there to sensationalize the news, and several stated some reporters were only interested in “blood and guts.” They freely admitted the obstacles in front of them in Iraq. Most recognized that while we are winning the war on the battlefield, albeit with difficulties in some areas, we are losing the information war. They felt the media had abandoned them. During each conversation, I was left in the awkward situation of having to explain that while, yes, I am wearing a press badge, I'm not 'one of them.' I used descriptions like 'independent journalist' or 'blogger' in an attempt to separate myself from the pack.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9488

-- December 6, 2006 8:25 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Grounded but listening..

Carl;

I think Ground Pounder is just inserting some excitement into the dialog. We all would enjoy seeing the Dinar RV high and soon.. but it hasn't happened yet, and until it does, I think we here on this board enjoy hearing fact based news and analysis from the contributors to this board. It keeps us truly grounded in reality, without discounting the possibility of a sudden Revalue. And - if you don't mind - I think we won't mind if the report GP posted is true.. but I'm not running out and buying Dinar on this news.. and I know your "long" position isn't likely to give it much stock, even as a remote possibility. And no, my friend, I haven't noticed that name in the time we have been posting on the board.. interesting handle, as you say. Maybe a fellow who drops bombs in Iraq.. or pounds the ground with mobile artillery, you think? :)

Sara.

-- December 6, 2006 9:00 PM ∞

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GROUNDPOUNDER wrote:

Chris, my name is Andy Tolley.
This all started in 2004 while I was a bus and truck driver on FORT BLISS,TX. I was in charge of the deployment and training of contractors and military personnel to the Middle East; next thing you know I was employed with Halliburton and KBR in 2004 as a bus driver in Kuwait(saying "what the hell am I doing here!). I lived at the Safir hotel and drove KBR employees all over Kuwait, Camp Arifjan,Spod,Doha,Ministries,Salwa and many other places.
My co-workers said the dinar was going to hit any day; so, I went to Fa Ha Hill and purchased 2.5 mil and I was on the dinar train. In 2005 I took a job in Qatar (saying "what the hell am I doing here!) working for Northrop Grumman and Vinnell at Al udeid A.F.B. taking aircrew,dignitaries,army,navy,airforce,marines and contractors and ravens, etc. to
their planes and anywhere else they needed to go.I've watched this board for a couple of years, but have remained silent. I am definitely not "told you". Anyone that was in Qatar 2005 can atest to that and all the aircrew would know me as GROUNDPOUNDER. The Truck drivers for KBR in 2004
will know me as Andy.I just thought all you guys would like to hear this rumor and I wanted to go to the pig roast lol.
Regards,GROUNDPOUNDER

-- December 6, 2006 9:08 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Been reading....no posting as had other things to complete before responding to some post..

Good Information has been posted along with some petty cheap shots from Carole toward Roger and Myself...
I have never fiqured out yet why carol wants to kick the Sh-- Pot...I thought she would have fiqured out by now that if you kicked the pot...the kicker usually gets the most splatter...
But I see she has taken up the Ouiji Board again, and now trying to fiqure out what other people are thinking.....of course she can't keep it to herself...because if she did not tell you on the board...it would not elevate her statue with the other boarders....but then again....that was not really enough...She felt like it was her duty to let everybody on the board know, as if we had not guessed by now, that she cannot stand Rogers Butt...but....look how much christian pity she has by tolerating his post and paying attention to his wisdom..." despise you Roger...but I shall spread my heavenly wings and may the light of the grand poopa shine on your ungodly butt...you heathen"

Its amazing how religion can be used to justify anything....Yes! God did kill all of those people in the Bible...but they made him do it....he really didn't want too...it was not his fault...but they were not giving him the worship he felt he deserved and demanded .....so what is a god to do...allow such disrepect to continue...? But! I want everyone to know my love is "unconditional" and even thou I will kill you unconditionally when you piss me off...I still love you....

But Carole and I do agree on some things...just different ways of doing it...First if someone tells you they are going to kill you...you believe them....the smartest thing is to act first...no rules apply other than just take care of business...Now! the method is where Carole and I differ... as a spiritual person..I say you kill only the ones who are threatening you...Carole being the religious loving christian that she is...says hell! kill them all...men, women, children,dogs,cats, goats, camels, chiggers, ticks....and let god sort them out...after all.... once you see one muslim you have seen them all...just shoot amongest them...hell! the Green Blow Flies have to eat too!

Tim Bitts...
I really don't believe Roger has changed at all...I have found him to be a very enjoyable man to be around...What I believe is your attitude toward him has changed...

I believe the Iranians are laughing their tails off at the democrats, the Iraqi Study Group and the MSM.....Iran is still baiting....and kicking the Sh--t Pot...just like Carole...they must be from the same neighborhood or at least have distant relatives...

-- December 6, 2006 9:12 PM ∞

---

TOLD YOU wrote:

The time is now for those who believe. The time of the RV will bring piece and prosperity to the middle east. But one should be careful what he wishes for because what one has been longing for may not be what his soul truley needs. Ones path has been set and he who wonders from that path will miss his true reward of the happiness he already has in store.

-- December 6, 2006 10:45 PM ∞

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GROUNDPOUNDER wrote:

TOLD YOU, Show us some facts backing your claim! Who are you?

-- December 7, 2006 12:08 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, thanks for your post on different views on jihad.:)

-- December 7, 2006 2:38 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, thanks for your post on different views on jihad.:)

-- December 7, 2006 2:38 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Sara, thanks for your post on different views on jihad.:)

-- December 7, 2006 2:39 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Tim,

i agree with your insights.

You know I was thinking, no matter where any of us are on these perplexing world issues, may be of no real consequence. Because, it just may be tottally out of our hands. We may be too far down the road to be able to turn back.

Carl:

Geeez Laweeez!!! Settle down!!

I don't think it is a requirement that we all are in love with eachother on this board.

This plan that you think in your mind that I have to destroy everyone is only that which you have conjured up in your narrow little mind.

This plan that you think I have, and disagree with is fine. Disagree with it! SO now let's hear your plan.

YOu say we should act first when threatened. Exactly how do you pirport to do that?

What does "act first" mean?

When the Muslims say all who do not worship Allah and subscribe to the teachings of Mohammed must be destroyed.....how do you suggest we react to that?

Do they really mean "ALL"?

If you beleive that they really mean ALL, how would this influence your "plan" to act first?

If you know anything about the Viet Cong and their tactics, think back to how many of our men were maimed and killed by those tactics as our guys were trying to spare the seemingly innocent old men women and young children???

I blieve we are dealing with an evil force that goes beyond our comprehension.

I believe it may be necessary to think like the enemy in order to deal effectively with the enemy. And very few of us are able to think on those realms, much less act on them.

We all seem to hit a block wall at this point of the discussion.

Let's just all be thankful that we are not the ones having to make those big decisions.

Yet no matter what, whether radical decisions or passive decsions that will be made----we will all be affected by them.

-- December 7, 2006 2:55 AM ∞

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Madbrad wrote:

looking at the rate @ which CBI appreciated the dinar last month to this, there appears to be an acceleration in December. To early to make forecasts but based on the trend it looks very promising!

-- December 7, 2006 2:56 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

NO! NO! NO!
Carole
I don't intend to settle down....you tend to personally attack people without provocation...it appears to be a personality weakness that I assure you is not very becoming...I really don't care what your religious convictions are or what God you believe in...in my mind....you are a pyscotic dangerous person to have a round or among any group..it is personalities such as yours that are the instigators of many inner office fights...you are the type that Ghengis said to get out of your mist immediately otherwise they will weaken the unit structure itself..

I told you the board does not need the snipes and backstabbing shots toward one another...and offered to take off the gloves with you....but you get bored carole...the truth is you like the turmoil...you hide behind the facade of christianity...but in reality it is only a cloak to take cheap pot shots from...Roger! has laid off of you...but you still take petty backhanded slaps at him...in my mind...you not worthy of washing his underwear....much less removing them from the dirty clothes basket...

Now! As I see what needs to be done...

First! wholesale slaughter of any race is criminal...not all muslims want to kill you or I....just as not all christians, such as yourself want to kill all muslims...Wars are started and created by the leaders of countries not the individual average citizen who is attempting to just create a life for his family.....so the smart thing is go after the leaders or followers of those leaders....

People are like cattle...give them enough of this or that...and they will follow that leader or group....there will always be extremist in any religion that use it as a tool to achieve whatever their goal is....Islamic Extremist
intend to kill you and I....the Iranian President and his group of Imans intend to wipe Israel off of the map...they have intentions of doing everything they can to destroy your and my way of life...not all mulims are extremist, just as not all christians are fundalmentalistic..

The overall answer does not come from one solution.....
The first move
Create enough concern financial,creature comfort, and governmental loss among the Arab Leaque that would make them act not for our sake, but their own survival....they need to act internally among their own culture and faith to help remove the ignitors of War....clandistine techniques work a whole lot better than shock and awe...it tends to keep the leaders ability to excite at a low hum...case in point the twin towers....we have been attacked numerous times over the years...but the attacks were not on american soil, small scale in nature...mainly isolated against governmental structure....Pearl Harbor...was the ignitor that set America in motion to go to War against Japan and Germany...

Carole! I was attached to the 82nd airborne division during the vietnaim area...so don't talk to me about tactics of the viet cong....

Time is another tool that can be used for you or allowed to be used against you...diplomacy for diplomay's sake is a waste of time....you do not talk with someone who is stabbing you in the back at the kitchening table...clandestine strikes should have been made against the Syrian and Iranian Leaders long ago...they should be so busy ducking and dodging the only thing they have time to do is run to another hole and then to another ...

Wholesale military strikes only insights the masses of that country and other kindsman of the same culture...and faith..one of the targets is the economic structure...just as bin laden has gone after ours....it appears to be working as the american dollar is now right at 1.98 up against the British sterling...the dollar is the lowest it has been in 15 years...

In War you never remove any option from the table...but you don't go squirrel hunting with a elephant gun either...
The trick is knowing when different techniques are required to achieve your goals for that day...restrain from wholesale slaughter of a race or nation is not being passive...its being responsible to mankind and to the God you say you profess to worship...unbridled fear is contagious, and acts under that fear are sometimes justified by the actors of those atrocities ....under the banner of religion....just as you justified your position of wholesale slaughter of muslims...

May our leaders have the ability to think with the compassion of Roger and the Military Wisdom of Ghengis and General Sun of the Chinese Armies of long ago...

-- December 7, 2006 6:01 AM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Announcement No.(821)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 821 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Thursday 2006 / 12/ 7 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 12 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1424 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 25.570.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 25.570.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) -------

-- December 7, 2006 6:25 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Groundpounder, Told you,Madbrad.......

Welcome to this crazy conversation!

-- December 7, 2006 8:39 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl & Sara.......

Ya know I buy you guys books and send you to school...but all you do is chew the covers off the books.

just kick in your gray cells and I'm sure you can remember that the term "groundpounder" originated with the Infantry units in our Military because their only means of getting from point A to B was mostly footpower, hence the term groundpounder. Most of the Infantry guys wear this title with pride even though they are now "mechanized" infantry.

-- December 7, 2006 8:55 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie!
I knew what a ground pounder was and is...just had never seen his handle before...
I believe he had the dinar value rumor pegged right with his description...

-- December 7, 2006 10:04 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Carl,

Thank you for the plan you presented. It sounds very rational and effective.

What do you mean by "Clandestine Strikes"?

Since human shields are used by the terrorists, how would your plan insure that innocent people would be spared?

NOw next question--assuming that the Islamofascist agenda has taken root in our country, how would you deal with that issue?

Next, in your opinion do you think there might be any plans under way, by ANYONE, planning your suggested strategy?

If so, it would give me, for one, a sense of hope and security.

Last, your indictment towards me is uncalled for.
All I stated was that I was not a fan of Roger, and you massacered my being and reputation on this board.

What you have accused me of is way out of balance with what I actually said. And your reaction, I believe is closer to psychotic, than my statement that I am not a fan of Roger.

For the most part, Christians on this board state what they believe and what personal affect their faith has had in their own personal lives.

For some reason this seems to ignite non-Christians and put them into a tailspin that gets not only ugly but absurd. Once again, tolerance becomes a one way street.

-- December 7, 2006 10:48 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl, good post. I agree. Cut the head of the snake off. I think an invasion of Iran would be a waste of time. There are, surprisingly, lots of moderate elements in Iran. The key is, they are all young. Iran had a big baby boom a while back, orchestrated by the mullahs. They thought the next generation would turn out like the old guys. They didn't. Surprisingly, lots of young Iranians are actually friendly and admiring of Americans, though not American foreign policy. Trouble is the old generations of radicals are running the place, and will be for a while. The demographics of Iran are such that, in twenty to thirty years, the old guys will all be dying off, and the younger, more open people will start to be in charge. Then, there might be hope. Lots of young Iranians hate their government, it's policies, but are loyal to their country. If America invaded, they would fight and die for their religion and country, in large numbers. If America just killed their leaders, and took out a chunk of Iran's conventional miliatary, defanging it so it couldn't attack other countries, without invading the country itself, it would be a good thing, and a lot of young Iranians would quietly be glad.

Right now, Iran is allowing troublemakers to go to Iraq, to stir up trouble for the American Army. Two can play at that game. In past insurgencies, like one that happened to Indonesia fifty years ago, the British government sent companies of soldiers into a neighboring country, to destabilize it, without actually invading that country. It worked very well, and insurgents stopped causing trouble in Indonesia. Why doesn't Bush do this? If Iran can work against the American Army by sending in people to cause trouble, why can't the Americans do the same? That would keep the Iranian government busy, trying to stabilize the areas where these soldiers could cause trouble. Hey, if Iran wants to play by an unconventional rules of war book, fair is fair, let the Americans play by the same rules. Of course, the Americans would have to lie about it, like the Iranians are now doing, and pretend they don't know anything about it.

I think it would also be helpful if American bombers "accidentally" bombed a few towns in Iran and Syria, that are near the Iraq border. Then, publically the President could express regret over these "accidents" and the hope that all countries can work together for peace. That could send a message.

-- December 7, 2006 11:45 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Tim:

If your information about the Iranian youth is accurate, which I have no reason to think otherwise, I wonder how they are feeling about the illegaization of internet access in their country.

I heard this on the news last night. Boy! I think the government has shot themselves in the foot on this one.

To many people shuting down internet access is like cutting off their oxygen.

Have you heard anything about this. I heard it on FOx News.

-- December 7, 2006 11:52 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl & Tim......

I think we're talking on the same page regarding some actions against the Islamic Militants that would be very effective.

A few years ago I had some Scottish expat friends that took a fresh approach to the Muslims that were preaching hate and discontent in their country. They took a large hogs head, along with some blood and guts, and tossed it thru the front door of the offending Mosque.

Guess what? The Mosque was closed for good and the Muslims found out that terrorism is a two way street.

They also like to brag that they can terrorize the Americans very cheaply by using an IED and cell phone. I believe the "hogs Head" method would be very cost effective. Just think....we could do all the Mosques in Baghdad for less than the cost of one humvee.

-- December 7, 2006 1:15 PM ∞

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Laura Parker wrote:

All,

Did anyone catch the interview with Baker and the co-chair of the Iraq Study group today?.

I was very taken back by one of Baker's comments. He said, that when they talked with Shiti's in Iraq, they told the group, "The USA has made the decision and placed Shiti's in command of Iraq. We Shiti's are in command of what is happening in Iraq, not the government."

Interesting attitude, don't you think as to who holds the power?

What do you all think?

Laura

P.S. The above quote may not be an exact quote, however, the sum of what was said is.

Who holds the power opinion is according to Shiti's them.

-- December 7, 2006 4:07 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.edinarfinancial.net

Iraqi Dinar News and why buy Iraqi Dinar
Presidential Order 13303: Allows US Citizens to buy and invest in the New Iraq . Under this Order and the Coalition Provisional Government Order 39, a US citizen has the same rights to investments as an Iraqi citizen.

(12-05-2006) Presentations sale of the dollar exceeds the purchase orders for the first time in the Iraq Central Bank Auction

For the first in the Central Bank Auction, last Wednesday, offers to sell the dollar exceeded the purchase orders significantly. A statement by the Bank said that the purchase orders by the four banks participating in the auction stood at 330 thousand dollars in cash for 20 million and 850 thousand dollars in cash yesterday.

Ali Al-Yasiri, a dealer with the Iraq Central Bank, attributed the significant drop in demand for the dollar to the decline of trading in the Iraqi market, because of the depressed commercial market due to the deteriorating security situation and the danger of dealing with large amounts of funds.

The statement pointed out that the Iraq Central Bank had covered all procurement requests at 1435 iraqi dinars to the dollar, 2 iraqi dinar lower than the price of yesterday. The dollar, today, dropped 2 iraqi dinar, for the fifth day consecutively, against the iraqi dinar (ID). The participating banks in the auction, today, presented offeres to sell the dollar reaching $ 2 million, bought by the bank in full at the exchange rate 1433 iraqi dinar to the dollar.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 7, 2006 5:46 PM ∞

---

TOLD YOU wrote:

someone is telling a 30 dollar lie.

http://markets.usatoday.com/custom/usatoday-com/html-investor-currency.asp?

For the amount of:


At an exchange rate of 0.00070
1000000 Iraqi dinar = 699.11 US Dollar
(Currency conversion rates as of 12/7/2006)

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic
Thursday, December 7, 2006

1,000,000 Iraqi Dinar = 730.727 US Dollar

1,000,000 US Dollar (USD) = 1,368,500,000 Iraqi Dinar (IQD)

-- December 7, 2006 6:09 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Laura: We have worked to establish a Democracy here. By definition, that means we have established a government by the people. When Shia make up 60% of the population, I would consider it a reasonable comment that we, the US, have essential put the Shia in the driver's seat of Iraq.

Carl, Roger, and all: Anyone seen Al Sadr lately? Anyone wondering why there has been no press coming out of him since Maliki returned? I suspect someone has made a more definite move.

All: I asked this question before but I'll ask it again, what would we have to find before rational minds like yourselves would declare that we have indeed found WMDs? No, I won't waste my time saying we have or have not because I could be lying and you probably would not believe me if I said we had. However, I am very curious what rational minds define as a WMD find.

-- December 7, 2006 6:28 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Regardless of what the MSM reports I am encouraged by the recent activities in Iraq. I think George W. Bush had productive meetings with Malaki and the Islamic Cleric at the White House.

Next, I see slow progress in the Dinar exchange rate vs. the U.S. Dollar. I am taking Roger's advice to get them while I can.

Regarding the Baker/Hamilton report President Bush seems to be sticking to his principles by staying in Iraq as long as he is the President. From what I have seen of their report, a U.S. presence seems to be the course even after 2008. This can only bode well for both the Iraqi government and our investment in the Dinar.

Concerning the rumor as written by Told You, I am not buying more Dinar because of his prediction.

I am curious where Lance has gone. I have not read a post by him in months. Is Taxmama still around? Just some thoughts on our investment.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 7, 2006 6:52 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Groundpounder.. Andy. You are welcome to post anytime, and I hope the RC rumor is true. Thanks for contributing it, I do like to hear the rumors.. hope it pans out. :)

Thanks, Tim Bitts.. I am glad you thought it a good post. :)

Madbrad - yes, the rate @ which CBI appreciated the dinar last month to this appears to be accelerating, Chris is keeping us up to date on it - thanks, Chris. Hope it is a sign of good things to come, soon! :)

Carl observed, "Wars are started and created by the leaders of countries not the individual average citizen who is attempting to just create a life for his family.....so the smart thing is go after the leaders or followers of those leaders...." This is so true.. I remember hearing someone joke that if we could just take the leaders who are squabbling with one another and put them all (with guns) on an island, then let them fight it out and then whoever wins can come back and say they won.. that would be ideal. However, war doesn't work that way..

turtle - I agree that the Shia are the majority party in Iraq by election and so they have the seat of power. The US was instrumental in putting in the Iraqi democratic government which afforded them that rule (by legal vote). And I do agree with you, there were WMD found - but isn't it interesting how the MSM has obscured the facts on the issue? I had to laugh at their saying it was "old" WMD and could hardly be considered "very" lethal at all.. like there are degrees of death? Remember this post?

FIFTY PERCENT of Americans Think WMDs Were in Iraq
July 25, 2006

.. an Oct. 4, 2004, report by Cybercast News Service included 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service memos that revealed Saddam's purchase of mustard gas and anthrax as recently as the summer of 2000 and his extensive ties to al Qaeda.

Then in June, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.) and U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) released declassified portions of an intelligence report that they said confirmed Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction, including mustard gas. The report indicated that 500 such weapons had been destroyed by the U.S.-led coalition since 2003 and that the U.S. and its allies were racing against terrorist groups in trying to control the remaining weapons in Iraq.

"It is essential for the American people to understand that these weapons are in Iraq," Santorum said during the news conference last month.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_4.html#122422

And this one showing a coordinated effort to remove as many of them as possible before the US got there:

Symposium: Iraq, WMDs and Troubling Revelations
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 29, 2006

Just recently, Saddam Hussein's former southern regional commander, Gen. Al-Tikriti, gave the first videotaped testimony confirming that Iraq had WMDs up to the American invasion in 2003 and that Russia helped remove them prior to the war. His testimony confirms numerous other sources that have pointed to Russia's secret alliance with Iraq and the co-ordinated moving of WMDs before the American liberation.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_4.html#123174

I hope this current reporter scandal (about the false reports - over 60 of them from a single terrorist propaganda source, plus 14 more identified as bogus sources) turns out very strongly against the MSM so that they are not able to deceive the public anymore - but the public looks past them and seeks out the facts without glibly and unthinkingly accepting as fact the ten minute sound byte they hear daily - a byte of news which is slanted toward the bias of those who own and control the mainstream media and serves their own interests and not the public good. I think the public thinks the reporters don't have any bosses or paychecks.. or bias (though they know what happens when they have a boss and paycheck to their own bias and viewpoints).

Sara.

-- December 7, 2006 7:33 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Oh, one more from Laura about WMD which I felt should be noted:

I was speaking about General Georges Sada, a retired Iraqi Air Force Pilot and an Assyrian Christian. This man was responsible for taking care of our downed pilots during the 2003 war with Iraq. At one point, Quay wanted to kill all the pilots and this general quoted the Geneva Convention. As a result of his deviance, Saddam had the General jailed the next day. He was eventually let go and forced into retirement because of his lack of party afflication. He received training in Russia, France, Italy, Britain, and USA. He was only pilot with training in all these countries. He states in his book, Sadaam's Secrets, that Iraq had WMD's up through summer 2002. At that time, Sadaam had the weapons taken down by Russian Weapons Specialist and taken by truck and commercial air planes that had been gutted to Syria.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#124786

-- December 7, 2006 7:41 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

This is a good example of what the bad guys currently think about us. I really believe the MSM and Liberals are the main reason we're at this point. Too bad the Baker report didn't report it as a major negative factor in our war efforts.

Our President is determined to win this war and I believe he will get it done!

===============================================================================================================
According to Abu Abdullah, a senior leader of Hamas' so-called military wing, Baker's report is a victory for Islam brought about by "Allah and his angels."

"It is not just a simple victory. It is a great one. The big superpower of the world is defeated by a small group of mujahedeen (fighters). Did you see the mujahedeens' clothes and weapons in comparison with the huge individual military arsenal and supply that was carrying every American soldier?" exclaimed Abu Abdullah, who is considered one of the most important operational members of Hamas' Izzedine al-Qassam Martyrs Brigades, Hamas' declared "resistance" department.

"It is no doubt that Allah and his angels were fighting with them (insurgents) against the Americans. It is a sign to all those who keep saying that America, Israel and the West in general cannot be defeated on the ground so let us negotiate with them," Abu Abdullah said.

Abu Abdullah said following a withdrawal from Iraq, the U.S. will be defeated on its own soil.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53269

-- December 7, 2006 8:04 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

In the case of Islamofascism, I am arguing that we must address the root cause of the radical extremist views, as this article today explains:

====

Ex-PLO member's message against terrorism censored
Immigration turns back man who served radical Islam until changed by Christianity
Posted: December 7, 2006 By Bob Unruh

Walid Shoebat, the former PLO terrorist and member of the Muslim Brotherhood who now warns the free world of the impending threat from Islamic terrorism, has been denied entry into Canada for a speaking engagement at a Simon Wiesenthal Center.

Keith Davies, the director of the Walid Shoebat Foundation, told WND Shoebat is a well-known voice "speaking against radical Islam. Obviously they want to have his voice silenced."

The official reasoning given for the travel permission denial, Davies said, was that Shoebat "might be a security risk."

But Shoebat is the author of several books, a prominent speaker and has appeared on CNN, FOX News, NBC, CBS, and ABC. He has also been featured on the BBC.

Davies said Shoebat's message is critical to today's world. The majority of Americans probably can feel that something is wrong, he said, but remain in "denial" about the reason, because they don't want to recognize that there's a part of the world population that hates America.

"Americans need to know the terrorist mindset and understand why terrorists want to destroy the West," Shoebat said in a commentary. "Disaster will surely come to America if she continues to misunderstand her enemies, because the ideologies of the Middle East are very different."

He described how in his own youth he would attack Jewish security forces, endangering his own life, because he sought the death of a martyr. That's what he was taught, he said.

Davies said different groups of people in the United States have different perspectives on taxes, abortion, the media and other issues.

"But we need to be united as a nation on the security and the defense and Western values of the free world," he said. That's a large part of Shoebat's message, Davies said.

What American should be paying attention to is the problem of Islamic teachings in schools, in mosques and other places, to find the source of the radical Muslim teachings and training.

"We're putting fires out. We're catching terrorists but we're ignoring the root cause of terrorism," Davies said.

He's spoken at Harvard, Columbia, Concordia, UCLA, USC, the University of Georgia, Washington University, Penn State and others. Print media outlets worldwide have reported on his life's work.

His new book, "Why I left Jihad," is a look at the prophecy in the Tanach.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53277

Again, I thought this significant because it shows that it is the Islamofascist teachings in schools, mosques and other places which are the real source of radicalizing youth. Like a potent mind drug, these deceptive teachings ensnare people into intolerant and violent behaviors based on radicalized extremist interpretations. (Note here this author saying, quote, "in his own youth he would attack Jewish security forces, endangering his own life, because he sought the death of a martyr. That's what he was taught, he said.")

There should be a systematized response to those teachings by moderating voices - both from the writings/tapes of those martyred for speaking against the Islamofascists from within the Islamic faith, as well as those who are alive and willing to address the Islamofascist threat - such as this man, above. They should present the moderate views and counterpoints to those who are at risk of embracing these teachings within the public population in order to innoculate them against blind obedience to radicalized ideology/theology, and as an antidote to those who have already ingested its poison.

If those who are at risk of embracing radicalized ideology can be converted out of that radicalized false ideology/theology, that will work to the public good - and if they can be persuaded to moderate their views to a peaceful view of Islam and stay within the confines of that religious tradition - learning to be at peace with other faiths - that will also serve the public good. Either way, the goal will be fulfilled - for no faith can realistically believe or embrace the idea that all people will embrace their viewpoint and teachings, including those who seek conversion. Therefore, the greater amount of damage control that can be done by various methods should be done for the public good and continuance of peace for the human race.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lies within you, live peaceably with all men.

Sara.

-- December 7, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Azzaman, December 7, 2006

The year 2007 will see the end of ‘terror’ in Iraq, return of stability and large-scale reconstruction, a cabinet minister claimed.

Finance Minister Baqer Solagh said the same year should see the value of the Iraqi dinar surging as a sign of a robust economy.

In a statement faxed to Azzaman, the minister said he would personally follow the implementation of projects that he hoped will see a drastic decline in unemployment.

The statement was released ahead of the publication of 2007 budget which Solagh said would secure the necessary financial resources to reconstruct the country.

“Next year will see a revolution in reconstruction which will check unemployment, defeat terror and consolidate security and stability in the new Iraq,” he said.

But he gave a gloomy picture of the pace of reconstruction in 2006 in which projects worth more than 2.5 billion dollars remain unimplemented due to security problems.

But the minister said he would see to it that all projects in the 2007 are carried out.

He gave no figures on money earmarked for reconstruction in 2007.

-- December 7, 2006 8:35 PM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: I didn't catch that, about internet access in Iran. To a repressive regime that tries to control thought, the internet is a very dangerous tool. The Muslim world is presently very isolated, and has been for many centuries, in terms of books available to read, and general intellectual stimulation. Their societies have been closed and closed minded. Like with mushrooms, Islamic radicalism grows best, in the dark, when you add lots of manure. The internet is used by Muslim radicals to plan terrorism, but it also represents the free flow of information, and it is this that many Muslim leaders fear. This could lead to an increase in the pathetic level of self-criticism in the Muslim world. Once the people learn to think independently and critically, they can turn that criticism against their own religion. This could eventually undermine their radical views.

-- December 7, 2006 9:59 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Carole...
Your clandestine strikes are carried out by insertion teams such as Delta Force, Seals, and other units that we don't even have a clue about...Usually these strikes are highly classified and rarely ever made public...a good example was Russia's removal of a ex KGB Agent, that they perceived was a threat....several leaders have died of natural causes that were in reality not so natural...
Shock and Awe is for show not surgical strikes...The pyschological set of any human being is they will react to the event or thing that creates the most immediate threat to their well being or security...Leaders behave the same way when their power is threatened...threaten the life blood of a government and you will get a response...now in order to force events...you create perceptions of reality...preceived reality is more important than reality...what those perceptions and desired actions are depends on what you want the parties to believe...example>>> The reality is country x has a group of Individuals that work together for one common goal...but don't really trust each other...The tool...is mistrust...so you simply set a senario that makes one side or the other think they are about to be double crossed...the pigeon or group of pigeons are usually the one most disliked or no one has trust in...why? Simply the rest wants to believe they are double crossers anyway...you simply help them achieve that belief...

creating unbridled fear and mistrust within a governmental infrastructure works wonders toward achieving your goal...as it causes delays in decisions, misinformation on plans, limited power structure...thus limits capabilities,etc;;

I hope this answers some of your questions about clandestine...

Terrorist depend on the other side to act cautiously when civilians are involved...thus that is why terrorist leaders will have children in women with them most of the time...not because they love them...but so if discovered...the other side will delay in their attack...this just may buy them time to escape..

This should rarely be a cause for delay in taking action...each case is different...but deaths of civilians are going to happen in wars...you attempt to minimize, but the end result is get the mission done...

subversive groups are handled differently...first you must learn to hide in plain sight...otherwords blend in with the surrounding environment...either through job employment, group affliation, etc;;; The best weapon is the individual who can obtain information without drawing attention to himself...double and triple blinds are always used in this type of operations...otherwords what you see is not what you see...your triple blind will never reveal him or herself...they are there to watch, listen, and report..the hardly ever will take action against the enemy. However, it is important that they screen what they report...example...the mole may have knowledge about an event which is about to happen...but the information is so restricted...that it is known only to a handful...the mole can report it...but the handlers in most cases will allow the action to take place without interference...in some cases they will encourage the mole to be one of the major aggressors...yes! they know americans are going to die in this operation...but the over all goal of the operation is to save more lives than what is going to be lost in that one action...your subversive groups are slowly eliminated one by one...severe accidents, natural deaths, just plain disappearance....

Stealth is the key word for a lot of these operations...most you will never know about...

-- December 7, 2006 10:09 PM ∞

---

Carole wrote:

Carl:

Thanks for the information. I found it intriging. Sort of reminds me of the movie Magnum Force, or the Clinton Chronicles!!

I can only hope that these internal, underground forces are at work and are fast paced.

Have more questions and comments, but my brain is mush( dealt with 2 patients and families newly diagnosed with inoperable cancer.)

ENough for one day!!

Thanks again

Carole

-- December 8, 2006 12:53 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

An interesting article from the International Herald Tribune (www.iht.com).

Iraq central bank boosts the country's currency in a battle against inflation
The Associated PressPublished: December 7, 2006

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BAGHDAD, Iraq: Iraq's dinar currency has risen to a nearly two-year high against the U.S. dollar, thanks to trading by the central bank at its daily auction, the bank said Thursday.

Most of all the money the Iraqi government earns it gets in U.S. dollars because oil exports are the main source of its income, and the bank has about US$14 billion in foreign assets, said Mudher Qassim, the Central Bank of Iraq's director of statistics.

It sold 35 million U.S. dollars at Thursday's auction, state-run Iraqiyah television reported.

"Our goal is to reduce inflation, which is now running at about 50 percent, by improving the dinar and thereby making imported goods cheaper," Qassim said in a telephone interview.

Today in Africa & Middle East

Marines and Iraqi troops fend off attacks, and boredom, in Anbar
Globalist: In Iraq, fragile hopes meet U.S. idealism
Past versus present, as Baker versus Rice
More than 80 percent of all Iraq's tradable goods are imported, he said.

In a report in August, the International Monetary Fund also said inflation was escalating in Iraq. The 12-month rate of inflation ended 2005 at 31.7 percent, but inflation then accelerated, with 12-month inflation reaching 58 percent in May 2006, the report said.

On Wednesday, the dinar was trading at an auction price of 1,424 against the U.S. dollar, according to the central bank's Web site, its strongest price since March 23, 2004, when it was at 1,420.

Between Nov. 29 and Thursday, the Iraqi currency traded widely at a market price between 1,410 to 1,442 to the dollar, the best the dinar had seen Jan. 26, 2005, when it was at 1,405, the Web site indicated.

"The dinar has steadily increased against the dollar because of the Central Bank's efforts to stabilize the currency and control inflation," said Hussein al-Uzri, president of the state-owned Trade Bank of Iraq.

"Iraqi consumers get oil and food that is government subsidized, so the rise in the dinar won't have an immediate effect on them and the economy. It will take some time. But as Iraqis realize the value of the dinar is rising, they will stop immediately exchanging their currency into dollars," he told The Associated Press.

Wednesday's bipartisan U.S. Iraq Study Group said that by the end of 2006, "The Central Bank of Iraqi will raise interest rates to 20 percent and appreciate the Iraqi dinar by 10 percent to combat accelerating inflation."

Two money changers in Baghdad said Thursday said their businesses haven't been affected by the central bank's intervention yet, but some consumers were watching to see what will happen to the dinar next.

Government employees who are paid in dinars already are benefiting by getting a better deal at the many Iraqi stores that import products such as electronic goods and sell them in dollars only, said one money changer.

The other one said the many poor and unemployed Iraqis who survive by receiving U.S. dollars from relatives overseas — and Iraqis who work for foreign companies and are paid in greenbacks — are worse off.

Both money changers spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their security in Baghdad, where many people are killed in sectarian violence between Sunni Arab insurgent and Shiite militias. Businessmen and store owners often are kidnapped by common criminals seeking ransoms from their relatives.

Mustafa Alani, a senior adviser at the Gulf Research Center in the United Arab Emirates, said he believes the Iraqi government's concerns about inflation will not be addressed by its manipulation of the currency market because the main reasons that the prices of goods are expensive is that companies importing them have to spend so much money providing security to their truck convoys. Many avoid using warehouses in Iraq because they are easily attacked, Alani said in a telephone interview from Abu Dhabi.

Qassim agreed, saying he believes that the cost of security alone increases the cost of importing goods to Iraq from neighboring countries by 15 percent to 30 percent.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 8, 2006 9:52 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carl: you wrote, in regards to war: "The psychological set of any human being is they will react to the event or thing that creates the most immediate threat to their well being or security...in order to force events...you create perception of reality...perceived reality is more important than reality".

Well said.

It almost seems to me you could have pulled that summation of the art of manipulation out of an Al Queda training manual, from the chapter on how to deal with the media and influence public opinion in America...Terrorist groups and Muslims in general are very good at showing Western journalists what they want them to report...they exploit liberal weakness and biases, and manipulate them...reporters, having been trained and educated in Western liberal guilt, they, the dumb reporters, easily fall for this manipulation, and then they report, along the lines they have been manipulated into, a very distorted view of events...and who is pulling the strings?...the terrorists, the Muslims! In other words, there is an extensive game of psychological manipulation going on, in order to do what? In order to fight a war! Terrorists realize the American media, the gullible liberal part of it anyway, can help them in whatever it is the terrorists want to do. Now the average American does not watch all this closely enough to realize they are being manipulated. The people reporting the so-called "news" to them are American, so they trust them to be accurate and factual, when in fact they are no such thing. The terrorists manipulate the reporter, in order to create fear and guilt, the distorted picture becomes reported, becomes conventional wisdom, and the false impression of reality created becomes more important that the actual reality, all done in order to force events.

Sunni insurgents in Iraq who want the Americans to leave know they can never hope to win an extended fight against America, in Iraq. They also know how democracy works, and that if public opinion can be swayed and weakened, in America, and the public turned against the war, the Americans may lose their nerve and withdraw prematurely. They know that this process is their only slim chance of victory. That explains all the car bombs. It is all done for the benefit of American media...it is a game of controlling perceptions, in order to weakening the resolve of the Americans. They know perceived reality of what is going on in Iraq is far more important than actual reality. Very clever, these bastards.

I have a bit of a warped sense of humour at times, and I laugh at the naive vulnerability of supposedly sophisticated journalists at times. It seems obvious to me that the fight for control of media perceptions is an extention of war....Muslims seem to have caught on to this very quickly....They seem better at this game than Americans are...Maybe it comes from living in the twisted culture that exists in much of the Islamic world, they have learned to survive by manipulating others...I have thought for a while that Osama bin Laden should have been given some sort of media award, perhaps from the Hollywood crowd, perhaps from Michael Moore, for clever manipulation of mass media perception...not that Osama is not sincere in his warped, twisted depravity,...he is, it's just that he is very clever at how he exploits American naivite. I'll bet he laughs in his cave at the stupid American reporters, who are useful idiots, to be exploited for his purposes.

-- December 8, 2006 10:48 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Carole: sounds like thing are getting rough for you....hang in there!:)

-- December 8, 2006 11:12 AM ∞

---

Paul wrote:

Iraq central bank boosts the country's currency in a battle against inflation
The Associated PressPublished: December 7, 2006

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BAGHDAD, Iraq: Iraq's dinar currency has risen to a nearly two-year high against the U.S. dollar, thanks to trading by the central bank at its daily auction, the bank said Thursday.

Most of all the money the Iraqi government earns it gets in U.S. dollars because oil exports are the main source of its income, and the bank has about US$14 billion in foreign assets, said Mudher Qassim, the Central Bank of Iraq's director of statistics.

It sold 35 million U.S. dollars at Thursday's auction, state-run Iraqiyah television reported.

"Our goal is to reduce inflation, which is now running at about 50 percent, by improving the dinar and thereby making imported goods cheaper," Qassim said in a telephone interview.

Today in Africa & Middle East

Marines and Iraqi troops fend off attacks, and boredom, in Anbar
Globalist: In Iraq, fragile hopes meet U.S. idealism
Past versus present, as Baker versus Rice
More than 80 percent of all Iraq's tradable goods are imported, he said.

In a report in August, the International Monetary Fund also said inflation was escalating in Iraq. The 12-month rate of inflation ended 2005 at 31.7 percent, but inflation then accelerated, with 12-month inflation reaching 58 percent in May 2006, the report said.

On Wednesday, the dinar was trading at an auction price of 1,424 against the U.S. dollar, according to the central bank's Web site, its strongest price since March 23, 2004, when it was at 1,420.

Between Nov. 29 and Thursday, the Iraqi currency traded widely at a market price between 1,410 to 1,442 to the dollar, the best the dinar had seen Jan. 26, 2005, when it was at 1,405, the Web site indicated.

"The dinar has steadily increased against the dollar because of the Central Bank's efforts to stabilize the currency and control inflation," said Hussein al-Uzri, president of the state-owned Trade Bank of Iraq.

"Iraqi consumers get oil and food that is government subsidized, so the rise in the dinar won't have an immediate effect on them and the economy. It will take some time. But as Iraqis realize the value of the dinar is rising, they will stop immediately exchanging their currency into dollars," he told The Associated Press.

Wednesday's bipartisan U.S. Iraq Study Group said that by the end of 2006, "The Central Bank of Iraqi will raise interest rates to 20 percent and appreciate the Iraqi dinar by 10 percent to combat accelerating inflation."

Two money changers in Baghdad said Thursday said their businesses haven't been affected by the central bank's intervention yet, but some consumers were watching to see what will happen to the dinar next.

Government employees who are paid in dinars already are benefiting by getting a better deal at the many Iraqi stores that import products such as electronic goods and sell them in dollars only, said one money changer.

The other one said the many poor and unemployed Iraqis who survive by receiving U.S. dollars from relatives overseas — and Iraqis who work for foreign companies and are paid in greenbacks — are worse off.

Both money changers spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their security in Baghdad, where many people are killed in sectarian violence between Sunni Arab insurgent and Shiite militias. Businessmen and store owners often are kidnapped by common criminals seeking ransoms from their relatives.

Mustafa Alani, a senior adviser at the Gulf Research Center in the United Arab Emirates, said he believes the Iraqi government's concerns about inflation will not be addressed by its manipulation of the currency market because the main reasons that the prices of goods are expensive is that companies importing them have to spend so much money providing security to their truck convoys. Many avoid using warehouses in Iraq because they are easily attacked, Alani said in a telephone interview from Abu Dhabi.

Qassim agreed, saying he believes that the cost of security alone increases the cost of importing goods to Iraq from neighboring countries by 15 percent to 30 percent.

-- December 8, 2006 11:13 AM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

IF:

The above information is correct with a 10% dinar adjustment based at 1477 when it started...does it appear reasonable to expect the dinar to revalue within the next 45 days to about 1330...?

-- December 8, 2006 11:54 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Minister vows to beat terror and reconstruct Iraq in 2007
Azzaman, December 7, 2006

The year 2007 will see the end of terror in Iraq, return of stability and large-scale reconstruction, a cabinet minister claimed.

Finance Minister Baqer Solagh said the same year should see the value of the Iraqi dinar surging as a sign of a robust economy.

In a statement faxed to Azzaman, the minister said he would personally follow the implementation of projects that he hoped will see a drastic decline in unemployment.

The statement was released ahead of the publication of 2007 budget which Solagh said would secure the necessary financial resources to reconstruct the country.

“Next year will see a revolution in reconstruction which will check unemployment, defeat terror and consolidate security and stability in the new Iraq,” he said.

http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news%5C2006-12-07%5Ckurd2.htm

I know it was posted before today by OKIE, thanks, but somehow I felt it needed to be said again.. and with emphasis.

Note we "SHOULD SEE THE VALUE OF THE IRAQI DINAR SURGING AS A SIGN OF A ROBUST ECONOMY",
and Iraq should have, "THE NECESSARY FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO RECONSTRUCT THE COUNTRY."
This is the winning strategy which will end terror in Iraq, return stability and cause large-scale reconstruction!
Finally Iraq will go from trying to be stable on a two legged chair (politics and military) and add the third leg (economy)!! :)

HEY.. >>>>> THIS IS GOOD NEWS!!!
The Dinar will soon take off (SURGING). :)

Sara.

-- December 8, 2006 1:35 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

This looks as though it could be or might be the best investment in my lifetime. Is Roger correct in his repeated admonitions to buy them while we can? Based on today's news posted by Okie, Paul, Sara, and myself he may be correct.

I wish a little more detail could have been given on how these initiatives were to be carried. Regardless, today is a good day.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 8, 2006 1:59 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

'Largest' Iraq operation in three years bags five insurgent leaders
08.12.2006 The Copenhagen Post

Danish and British troops led a 1000-man assault on Iraqi insurgents Friday

Danish soldiers took part in a mammoth military operation in Iraq early Friday morning, storming a Basra suburb and capturing five insurgent militia leaders.

The operation involved 750 British and 250 Danish soldiers - over half the entire Danish contingent in Iraq.

'It was the largest operation of this kind we've undertaken since 2003,' British Major Charlie Burbridge told French news agency AFP.

The coalition troops advanced on areas held by supporters of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and thought to have been behind several attacks on coalition forces.

Reports from Camp Danevang in Southern Iraq indicated that no Danish soldiers were killed and all were accounted for back at the camp.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/99492.html

===

-- December 8, 2006 2:53 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

And, the Associated Press version:

Coalition forces kill 20 insurgents
By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer Dec 8 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S.-led coalition forces killed 20 insurgents, including two women, Friday in fighting and airstrikes that targeted al-Qaida in Iraq militants northwest of Baghdad, the military said. The mayor of the village, which was the site of a U.S. raid earlier this year, said 19 civilians were killed, including seven women and eight children.

In the south, more than 1,000 British and Danish troops conducted a pre-dawn raid in the outskirts of Basra, coalition officials said, describing the operation as the largest of its kind in the area since the war began. Five Iraqis, described as members of "a rogue, breakaway" Shiite militia, were detained.

In the coalition raid northwest of Baghdad, near Lake Tharthar in the predominantly Sunni Salahuddin province, ground forces were searching buildings when they were attacked. They returned fire, killing two insurgents, the U.S. military said.

Under continuing fire, the troops called in air support, killing 18 insurgents, the command said, adding that two women were among those killed. The military declined to specify which branch of the coalition was involved, but the U.S. provides the bulk of the air support in most of the country.

"Al-Qaida in Iraq has both men and women supporting and facilitating their operations unfortunately," it said.

Searching the area, the coalition forces found and destroyed several weapons caches, including AK-47s, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, anti-personnel mines, explosives, blasting caps and suicide vests, the command said.

The raid was conducted in an area where intelligence reports had indicated that "associates with links to multiple al-Qaida in Iraq networks were operating," U.S. command said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Note I had to get the first story from Copenhagen. Guess which story will run in the MSM over here.. the one about the capturing five insurgent militia leaders - which AP referred to only as "members", or the one about the US soldiers calling in air support which resulted in getting female supporters along with the male combatants? Unbiased reporting, hey? Notice also no reference to these captured men possibly being involved in the attacks against our troops..

Sara.

-- December 8, 2006 2:54 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thought this worth noting..

House Panel Says GOP Didn’t Violate Any Rules On Foley
From a very disappointed Reuters:

House panel finds Republicans negligent in scandal

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A House ethics panel concluded that Republicans failed to adequately respond to early warnings about a lawmaker blamed for the Internet sex scandal that shook the U.S. Congress this year, a source said on Friday.

The source [sic] the bipartisan panel found that no one violated specific ethics rules but were negligent in protecting young interns in the matter.

Republican Rep. Mark Foley of Florida, a six-term lawmaker, resigned from the House of Representatives on September 29 after it was disclosed he had sent sexually explicit electronic messages to former teenage male interns.

The revelation triggered charges that Republicans had tried to cover up the matter and likely helped Democrats win control of an already scandal-rocked Congress in the November 7 elections.

===

What’s this? The House Republicans committed no crimes? None? They didn’t even violate any Congressional ethics rules?

We were lied to for all those weeks? But that’s okay. As long as it helped elect Democrats.

Funny though how nobody even thought of investigating the Democrat leadership’s role in this non-scandal.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/house-panel-says-gop-didnt-violate-any-rules-on-foley

-- December 8, 2006 3:43 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Everyone:

Have a nice weekend. I am sure I will see you on the board.

An update on my dog, I received a call from the vet and the tumor they removed is lymphomic cancer.

At best he has six to eight months, I am trying some natural remedies to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 8, 2006 5:54 PM ∞

---

Anonymous wrote:

Right now, the passage of the hydro carbon law (HCL) is the main stumbling block for progress on the economic front, including an RV for the Dinar. The GOI has to pass this law very quickly or stand the chance of being replaced by lawmakers that will get it passed. Hopefully it wil be completed within a few weeks.

==========================================================================================================
"As it strains to contain the sectarian bloodshed and ease the departure of its own troops from Iraq, the US has been exerting pressure on Iraqi leaders to pass a hydrocarbons law that would more fairly regulate the distribution of oil revenues and close some of the sectarian rifts. Political squabbles have overshadowed what could be the historic aspect of the legislation: although the previous regime had moved towards opening up the sector, in order to encourage oil companies to break United Nations sanctions, the law is expected finally to reverse the 1972 nationalisation of the industry."

"According to drafts now circulating, it would allow various forms of foreign partnership, possibly including production-sharing agreements. Such contracts are preferred by oil companies, allowing them to hedge the risk of cost overruns and giving them greater scope for gain if oil prices rise."

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-08-12-2006&article=12459

-- December 9, 2006 12:11 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Last post was mine......

-- December 9, 2006 12:16 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Rob N...........

Sorry to hear about your dog. If your dog doesn't recover....I've found that a new puppy is great therapy.

-- December 9, 2006 12:39 PM ∞

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Madbrad wrote:

okie

and then.... there's all that chewing, pooing and weeing that helps take your mind of it,then you've got to move cos the house sinks!...by this time you've forgotten all about that old fella......

-- December 9, 2006 3:17 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Hi All,

Been pretty biz, but I'll try to do the Dinar train as much as possible. Have ventured into a business deal that have the potential of doubling or tripling my income, and in the beginning, it's a lot of back breaking job. I'm doing it with wobbly legs in the beginning, and half of my hand grips is an oops.

I can see that the Dinar is moving along just fine, reading all these wonderful news that is coming from this site.

Checked the value of the Dinar, since the Dinar stated to move.

It was 1477, gives a value per million Dinars to 677 Yankee Dollars.
Now it's 1424 Gives a value per million Dinars to 702 Bucks.

That poses another problem, no banks have currency exchange between Bucks and Yankee Dollars.

Anyhow, so far, the value increase have raised each of our millions value by 25 Dollars.

10 mil = 250 Dollars
20 mil = 500 Dollars
30 mil = 750 Dollars
40 mil = 1000 Dollars ( hey I'll take it)
50 mil = 1250 Dollars.

And so on..........

Another thing in the mix right now, is the proposed common currency over there in Arabia land.

For the Iraqi Dinar, I say, not to worry.

This is the deal. It will happen, but Iraq is NOT a participating country.

If you hear this fuzz again, and your mind wanders to your stash of Dinars, thinking they have to be exchanged for some common currency for a far less price than you expected from a future RV with the Iraqi Dinar, just relax.

There are six participating countries, 1. Saudi Arabia, 2. Kuwait, 3. United Arab Emirates (UAE), 4, Qatar, 5. Bahrain, 6.Omar.

They are members of Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), and have a long planned merge of their currencies. The plan have been worked on since mid 80's, and if the plan (still going on schedule) works out the way they have decided, a new common currency will be implemented IN THOSE COUNTRIES by JANUARY 2010.

They have chosen to do basically what the CBI in Iraq have been doing for some time, instead of going with a basket of currencies, they will peg the new currency in the beginning to the Dollar.

(Smart move, what do they have????...oil, and oil is sold in ....Dollar.)

Rob N,

In my postings back in time, many of my religious aspects have been aired, some for good some for bad. I believe we are spirits, and I have doubts about the Christian , Islamic and Jewish faith about Heaven and Hell.

However, when it comes to Dogs, yes, there is a doggie heaven, if Aston Martin goes, he will be just fine. Your postings about the dog have in some way touched me.

It's such a buddy, never argues, everything is so clear, "throw the stick", "I'm thirsty", "I love you"**and lick your face*.

Step on his tail by mistake, and he will immediately forgive you, wagging his tail, asking to be nice. He wont pull up a little dreaded pocket size black book, and take notes for future account.

He's a buddy.

Sara,

Good find, seems from the articles, that first, a lot of the violence is false, doctored reports, just plain vanilla false. Second, they're getting higher ranked terrorists leaders. Looks like a plan. Cut the head off.

Also thanks for the thought you sent me half way through he board since last time I was here.

You're up for a hug now, you haven't got one in such a long time, here it is. HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG,

This thing you said about the Fascists in Guantanamo, yes, they should get more info from other sources, however, the point of "Deprogramming" , that's as far as I'm concerned a bit different.

Showing someone a fair and different source, is by all standards, fair and square, but the "Deprogramming" have been used forcefully by communists, when it was used against us, it was called brainwash, and later by people that see Devils in other faiths.

The objective was to kidnap a person, bring him/her to a secure room, lock the door, and forcefully question all the beliefs he have, using all the known techniques ,until three days later or so, the person gave up, and happily thereafter never went back to that faith, mom and dad paid the "deprogrammer" company, and set the child up for a wonderful career as a hairdresser, living half a mile away from mom rest of her life.

This was big in the 60's 70's and 80's when a Protestant parent could pay to "deprogram" their newly Catholic turned youngster, back to being a Protestant and "come home" again.

All of those "deprogram" companies went belly up after a long line of lawsuits, after people had been kidnapped, but refuse to give up their faith.

The word Cult or Sect is pretty much miss used, a Sect is secretive, inbound and no outsiders can get in. If it's missionary, it is not a Sect or Cult.

A sect or Cult would be the one that all had suicide when a comet passed by. You have never heard of those guys until they did it.

Other than that, If you have heard about it, then it's promoting itself, and is missionary and by definition it's not a Cult or a Sect.

If someone point a gun to my head and asked me to either die or convert to Islam, Wow, I would convert in no time, but I can't promise I would drop it afterwards, when the threat was over.

For the Guantanamo guys, I don't think a "Deprogramming" in the sense it has been used so far, is the way, more just like give them other things to read. They'll pick it up, and start wondering. That would be easy.

Carl,

Yes it would be pretty much in the vicinity of 1330 if that is what they are planning to do.

That would yield a per million Dinar value of 751 bucks.

That's an increase of 74 Bucks per million, from it's starting point of 1477.

Question is if a currency that in my estimate is worth between 5 and 15 cents, will be able to douse the inflation, and put food on the table with such a modest increase.

You give a dinner to a starving man, not a lollipop.

I don't think a 10 % of a revaluation is going to make such a hill of beans, because it's 10 % of an ALREADY HOPELESSLY UNDERVALUED CURRENCY, there have to be a dramatic currency increase, to actually make the difference that will affect the Iraqis positively.

Taxmama, Lance, Outlaw, Steve,

Roll call in five minutes.

Re Internet in Iran,

There is an estimated 70 to 100.000 blog sites in Farsi, something the Iranian Gov are trying to control, but have no way of doing.

That's the way the Soviet Union basically felled.

They couldn't keep the areas under their control airtight, information came in in various ways, and the population found out that their "Workers Paradise" was miserable compared with the world out side. The communication in those days was not the Internet, but still, whatever means there was, the principle stays the same.

Places like N.Korea, where the population is in total apathy, and is living in such a miserable conditions, that owing any electronic device is an unobtainable feat, ( except radios, or TV's made in such a way, that they can ONLY pick up Govt, broadcasting), this will be a slower process, and probably cut the head off the snake is the far quicker, and more
productive way.

Iran, with porous borders to Iraq, and other countries, have so much more influx of communication to the out side world.

If covert operations is played out just right, as laid out by Carl, Iran could give up it's ghost, without the Nuclear Bomb going off.

Iran will really alienate a lot of people, nations, and groups, by doing their "Holocaust Denial" congress they're planning.

Auschwitz is still there, go there and take a walk. In the beginning you see barracks after barrack, and wonder whats all the fuzz is, then you start getting to the piles of hats, shoes, glasses,.....mountains of it.. walk the path to the gas chambers,... that's where it happened, then the crematories,...still bones in them. Outside, where the ashes from the crematorium was, mountains of bone filled ashes,,, mountains.

Stick your hand and grab a handful of dirt, full of bone fragments.

Miles and miles of film from the occupying forces, when they entered the camps was filmed. Thousands of walking skeletons, and much more that didn't walk no more.

One US commander, was so upset, and didn't want to hear the "we only followed orders" "we didn't know" that he ordered the whole German town to march up to the camp, every one of them, he arranged a line where they would walk, right pass everything. If the Germans didn't want to look into the owen with the bones, they were forced to do so.

The Major in the town and his wife went straight home and shot themselves.

Fascism is alive and well, and I don't care if they call them self religious, it's fascism in it's purest form. Iran will now have a meeting, with coffee, and snacks, speaker podiums, with banners, on one side, and flowers on the other, saying this didn't happen.

Good luck.

I don't think we have to do that much work in alienating Iran from the world, they're doing a pretty good job of it themselves.

Tim Bitts,

No I have been interested in religious stuff all of my life, and I have been reading and investigating quite a bit in that area.

As a kid, my grandma took me to a meeting, where grown ups was talking tongues, and drooled all over themselves, and asked me if I didn't want to join, I refused. Later on still as a kid, I was on a Christian summer camp, and I was so amazed to hear all those stories from kids that was "saved by Jesus" , I heard one remarkable story after another, of how enormous wonderful it was.

Ok I wanted that kick too, so I said I wanted to follow in Jesus footstep. All the leaders and the converted kids had a big HURRAY, and converted over me in a prayer session. Ok when it was done, I went over to a mountain top and looked over a really beautiful area.

Nothing had changed. I was still me, no angels, no harp music or any other psychedelic opera, that all the kids have been telling me about.

Spiritually I know there was something, and I was always drawn into shops where they sold religious stuff. From the late 60's to about the 90's I looked in many places, established religions as well as what many would call Cults. I read, participated, went to meetings, always asked the guy at the airport that was handing out fliers about his religion, what it was and what it did. Always asked friends or friends of friends about whet they professed, if they tried to sell me on their religion.

I would say I am more aligned with Buddhism, although I would not say that I am, or are practicing Buddhism, but I found that the eastern really old religions were more to the truth and more to the point rather than the modern Christian Jewish and Islamic version of existence.

I do find religion interesting. I do swirl over into it, occasionally, but rather keep the Dinar thread going.

I did find it a bit odd that you would address me as a 3rd person talking with Carole, underlining that a person like me, without any religious background wouldn't understand, this "Islamic threat". You have the answer right above, all you had to do is just ask.

If there is something there that you don't think I don't understand, please educate me. I'm open. I'll go for the drink, but, if I have a choice, I would go for a really sweet cigar at the Roast.

Laura P.

Very interesting post about the life span of civilizations.

Right, they don't last.

The cycle as I understand it is:

1. Slavery.
2. Rebellion.
3. Consolidation, construction and expansion.

That's the "up" cycle.
The "down" cycle is:

4. Abundance but no expansion.
5. Control and dependency.
6. Slavery.

I would say that the USA is around 4. or 5 right now.

Probably at 5. After WW2, we expanded into being a superpower, and had a lot of affluent abundant years after that, now we have to tighten the belt a bit, and get a stamp or permit for anything we have to do, so I would say its more in 5. right now.

We have reached into dependency and control, but we have not reached into where we are considering ourselves slaves, and want change.

With the current immigration laws, we are allowing us to have slaves,(well modern type of slaves, you don't see the whip no more) but nevertheless we are creating our self a huge class of people without rights. One day, probably not too far, they WILL rebel, claiming rights that are denied. So it's much better to either enforce the immigration laws, to the letter for each and every one that is here, or create a potential revolting class.

We might call them financial slaves, and because of economics accept to keep slaves, but as long as there is no equal rights, one of the parties IS a slave to the other.

Is it right to come here in the night, uninvited, of course not, this merely describes an existing situation.

Millions and millions, are arriving, and we are freely accepting that a third class person, without any rights can pick our lettuce, and say it's ok, we are creating the very next rebellion, because even how bad, how illegal how unfair THEY did it, WE ACCEPTED IT. Things have not changed much since the time of the Romans.

A Roman was above sweeping his floor, so someone have to sweep his floors.

Where is the Roman Empire now?

Take the millions and millions on welfare checks, and make THEM pick the lettuce, we have got he workforce here, it'just if it is beneath us or not.

Ok that was Dinars, Religion, and politics enough for a day. Might be some time until next time , see ya all.

-- December 10, 2006 12:14 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Censorship in Iran,

The different ways to circumvent the Iranians Mullahs monitoring of the Internet is in full swing, if you know anyone that is in Iran, give him this site, and he'll get full instructions on how to do it, what to download, and how to use the program. Once done, the world is open. A lot of there programs are floating around, and controlling the Internet is an impossibility. This program is also going pretty strong in China

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2006/12/by-pass-islamic-iran-internet-filters.html.

-- December 10, 2006 1:17 AM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

To Roger

How nice of you to drop in and pass your judgement on all who have posted their views and ideas. I guess we can all continue on now, some being blessed by you some -not so much.

Get a life buddy! Most can give a shit less if you ever post again. You'd probably be more successful in your new venture if you had both arms to work with. But using one arm to continually pat yourself on the back makes you risk success. Hey, but if that's what you get off on.....

Just wished you would find another place to do it.

Some here talk religion, and they seem to know exactly what they believe.

But you are all over the map. Somehow you see that as being superior. But frankly you are just another confused self -reliant nut.

-- December 10, 2006 4:52 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

THIS IS GOOD NEWS!!!!!! For sure, the negotiations are in a "hurry up" mode. My feeling is the Iraqis want to get everything nailed down before the end of Jan'07. I also believe we'll see an RV during that same time frame.

COM'ON DINAR!!!!!!!

=================================================================================================================
Iraqis near to a deal on sharing oil wealth
EDWARD WONG
IN BAGHDAD

IRAQI officials are near agreement on a national oil law that would give the central government the power to distribute current and future oil revenues to the provinces or regions, based on their population.

If enacted, the measure could help resolve a highly divisive issue that has consistently blocked efforts to reconcile feuding ethnic and sectarian factions. Sunni Arabs, who lead the insurgency, have opposed the idea of regional autonomy for fear that they would be deprived of a fair share of the country's oil wealth, which is concentrated in the Shi'ite south and Kurdish north.
>
>
>
>
General George W Casey, the senior US commander in Baghdad, and Zalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador, have urged Iraqi politicians to put the oil law at the top of their agenda, saying it must be passed before the end of the year.

The drafting committee is made up of politicians from the main Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish blocs in government. They began talks months ago, but the pace picked up recently.

At the start, the Kurds fought to ensure that regional governments had the power to collect and distribute revenues from future fields. They also proposed that revenues be shared among the regions based on both population and crimes committed against the people under Saddam's rule. That would have given the Kurds and Shi'ites a share of the oil wealth larger than the proportions of their populations.

But those demands have now been dropped, said Barham Salih, the Kurdish chairman of the drafting committee. "Revenue sharing is an accepted principle by all the constituent elements of the Iraqi government, including the Kurds, and that is the unifying element that we're all hoping for in the oil law."

The Kurds are willing to make concessions because a national oil law could attract more foreign oil companies to exploration and development in Kurdistan.

Some Kurdish leaders also believe that the concessions are a worthwhile price to pay for having a stake in the much larger revenue pool of the country's oil industry. The southern fields accounted for 85% of Iraqi crude production last year, partly because northern production was hampered by insurgent sabotage. The south has an estimated 65% of the country's 115 billion barrels of proven reserves.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1832952006

-- December 10, 2006 2:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Anonymous,

I have a life, and on top of it all I remember my name. Isn't it nice to have no reason to hide. Oh, you woldn't know.

-- December 10, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Okie,

Good news, yes, the HCL is due, I can fully understand the different factions concern, but in the end, it seems like the principal of greatest good for the greatest number will prevail.

The Kurds have a head start already, and for a while it looked that they were going completely autonomous, but with this, I see signs that they are aligning themselves with the Iraq Fed Gov.

The issue of splitting the nation in three different region seems to fade more and more, and reports of how the nation as a whole will deal with issues, is getting more on the front burner.

It's definitely buzzing on the RV front.

The difference from the past is that rumours, was mainly coming from economic experts, sisters brother in law to a minister, and such sources.

However, the last month alone, these kind of statements have been originating from Iraqi officials.

One rumour indicates that we should watch for the 12th or the 13th of this month. Well I'll be looking, it's just a few days from now.

Okie, at your arrival at the Roast, I hereby, in writing promise you a bottle of Jim Bean. However, you have to find me a sweet cigar in return, deal?

-- December 10, 2006 3:46 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger.....

I think the Iraqis will do an RV before the US Democrats take over.....just a hunch!

Don't forget the JB....the sweet cigar will certainly appear!

-- December 10, 2006 7:20 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

J.B against a Sweet stooge, deal.

About the Democrats, yes, the RV will come, the economics will flourish in Iraq, and the Dems will stand there with smiling faces telling the world that it's because of their presence, we "finally sorted out the Iraqi Quagmire."

When the whole Iraqi affair is over, I must say , Bush did a good job all in all, but I would not like to give him all the roses.

In principle, and caracter I give him high grade, but as a communicator he pretty much sucks. Shouldn't bitch on him too much though, after all he's the boss.

I can imagine the speeches that Ronald Reagan would have given to us, would he have been in office during this time.

The peak of the insurgency is over with, I cant read the name Sad'r that often right now, also the daily violence seem to have gone down a few grades. It's not a done deal, but I think we are looking at the beginning of the end, of the insurgency.

Whatever came out of the Bush, Malaki meeting, this is the result.

Just read today, sorry I lost the article, a reporter was a bit annoyed over the little or no information about the activities going on right now, with regards to the IRAQI SPECIAL FORCES, doing ongoing operation against death squads, and high level militia command structure. His complaint was, that there was no information at all, about what they were doing.

They're still finding bodies in the morning in Baghdad.

I suspect there is a difference now, they're not all the usual innocent people.

-- December 10, 2006 9:31 PM ∞

---

Chris wrote:

Announcement No.(823)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 823 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Monday 2006 / 12/ 11 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 12 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1419 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 18.490.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 18.490.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------

-- December 11, 2006 7:38 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

I think the combination of Maliki and Al-Sadr is just a little too much for the Iraqis to tolerate. If they go ahead with their plans to change the Government, it would only require a simple majority of their 270 member parliament. I've read where they already have the votes to implment the change.

While they're at it, they should enforce the previous "murder warrant" for Al-Sadr. This fat slug has American Military blood on his hands.
===============================================================================
Baker: We're not cooking up recipe for defeat

December 11, 2006
WASHINGTON -- Leaders of a bipartisan panel on Iraq sought to deflect criticism Sunday that their new war strategy endorses defeat, saying the Bush administration must push Mideast diplomacy or face ''major-league problems.''
In Sunday appearances, former GOP Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Democratic Rep. Lee Hamilton shot back at some Republican critics who had denounced the bipartisan panel's proposals as a ''recipe for retreat.''

''We're not going to win this war militarily; we're going to win it politically,'' Baker said. ''There must be a political reconciliation among the warring factions in Iraq or we're going to continue to have major-league problems.''

Meanwhile, partners in Iraq's governing coalition are in behind-the-scenes talks to oust Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki amid discontent over his failure to quell raging violence.

The talks are aimed at forming a new parliamentary bloc that would replace the government and likely exclude supporters of anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. AP

-- December 11, 2006 9:06 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Talks Under Way to Replace Iraq PM

By HAMZA HENDAWI and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA
The Associated Press
Sunday, December 10, 2006; 6:29 PM

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Major partners in Iraq's governing coalition are in behind-the-scenes talks to oust Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki amid discontent over his failure to quell raging violence, according to lawmakers involved.

The talks are aimed at forming a new parliamentary bloc that would seek to replace the current government and that would likely exclude supporters of the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is a vehement opponent of the U.S. military presence.

The new alliance would be led by senior Shiite politician Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, who met with President Bush last week. Al-Hakim, however, was not expected to be the next prime minister because he prefers the role of powerbroker, staying above the grinding day-to-day running of the country.

A key figure in the proposed alliance, Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, a Sunni Arab, left for Washington on Sunday for a meeting with Bush at least three weeks ahead of schedule.

"The failure of the government has forced us into this in the hope that it can provide a solution," said Omar Abdul-Sattar, a lawmaker from al-Hashemi's Iraqi Islamic Party. "The new alliance will form the new government."

The groups engaged in talks have yet to agree on a leader, said lawmaker Hameed Maalah, a senior official of al-Hakim's Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, or SCIRI.

One likely candidate for prime minister, however, was said to be Iraq's other vice president, Adil Abdul-Mahdi, a Shiite who was al-Hakim's choice for the prime minister's job before al-Maliki emerged as a compromise candidate and won.

News of the bid to oust al-Maliki, in office since May, came amid growing dissent over his government's performance among his Sunni and Shiite partners and the damaging fallout from a leaked White House memo questioning the prime minister's abilities.

Washington also has been unhappy with al-Maliki's reluctance to comply with its repeated demands to disband Shiite militias blamed for much of Iraq's sectarian bloodletting.

Bush publicly expressed his confidence in al-Maliki after talks in Jordan on Nov. 30. But the president told White House reporters four days later that he was not satisfied with the pace of efforts to stop Iraq's violence.

It was not immediately clear how much progress had been made in the effort to cobble together a new parliamentary alliance. But lawmakers loyal to al-Sadr who support al-Maliki were almost certainly not going to be a part of it. They had no word on al-Maliki's Dawa party.

They said al-Maliki was livid at the attempt to unseat him.

-- December 11, 2006 9:23 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Page 2 of the post above.

Talks Under Way to Replace Iraq PM

"We know what's going on and we will sabotage it," said a close al-Maliki aide who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities involved. He did not elaborate.

A senior aide to al-Sadr, who insisted on anonymity for the same reason, said the proposed alliance was primarily designed to exclude the cleric's backers and they would resist.

Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militiamen fought U.S. troops for much of 2004 in Baghdad and across central and southern Iraq. It is blamed for most of the sectarian violence raging in Iraq.

The cleric's supporters have been among al-Maliki's strongest backers, ensuring his election as prime minister. Relations have recently frayed, however, with the 30 Sadrist lawmakers and five Cabinet ministers boycotting the government and parliament to protest al-Maliki's meeting with Bush in Jordan.

The al-Sadr aide said recent contacts with the office of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, spiritual leader of most Iraqi Shiites, indicated the Iranian-born al-Sistani was not averse to replacing al-Maliki. Al-Sistani issued an unusually harsh criticism of the government in July.

Al-Hakim's SCIRI, along with parliament's Kurdish bloc and al-Hashemi's Islamic party, are likely to be the major powers of the new alliance. Independent lawmakers are also expected to join, legislators said.

Al-Hashemi's Islamic party said Sunday it would not join any future government unless it had a real voice.

Mahmoud Othman, a prominent Kurdish lawmaker and a sharp government critic, said talks on a new parliamentary alliance were initiated early this year, abandoned and recently resumed.

"This government must offer a remedy for all the problems we have in Iraq or publicly announce that it's unable to do so," said Othman, who is close to the negotiations.

Al-Maliki's government, under the Iraqi constitution, could be ousted if a simple majority of parliament's 275 members opposed it in a vote of confidence. Parties in the talks expressed confidence they had enough votes.

"The question of confidence in this government must be reconsidered," Parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, a Sunni Arab, told legislators Sunday. "Why should we continue to support it? For its failure?"

-- December 11, 2006 9:33 AM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

Roger:

I am glad the story of my austrailian shepherd has touched you. Aston Martin is my buddy. I do not think there will be any more dogs for a while. As I said in a previous post, he will be given some natural suplements to see what quality of life he can have. I will not let him suffer though for my selfish need to prolong his life.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 11, 2006 10:44 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

For those of you that believe the problems in Iraq are the result of religious or sectarian reasons….you might want to believe this…..

One of the forces in our brain traces its beginnings back several thousand years and is implanted in our stem cells. It’s called GREED and is certainly one of the driving forces behind the current situation.

I believe that once the GOI, or its replacement, fairly settles the HCL and distribution of the oil revenues, the country will see a major turn- around and good progress will take place.

If Al-Sadr, or an Al-Sadr look- a- like continues to create problems, he will be killed by his own people. With an estimated 115-300 billion barrels of oil in the ground, nobody is going to let a fat cleric, or Iran and Syria, stand in the way of the good life it will bring.

-- December 11, 2006 1:33 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger;

Thanks for the Hug. :) I appreciate your input. I used the word "deprogramming" but not in the sense of the word as you were referring to it (baggage from the 1970's era). I was just referring to those who got new information (and not just the one party line) and began to think for themselves. I think it is a good plan as critical thinking skills need to be developed there.

Okie;

Interesting about the Iraqi special forces.. this appears to add more to Carl's posts about how they need to step up the clandestine operations. The press is complaining of no news, but there are less attacks.. sounds like it is working to me. I also read on the plans to replace Maliki and thought that a good route as this is not working the way it is. There has been a lot of rumblings, but there appears to be concrete planning on the way and they are thinking like Carl that they would be better off without Sadr in the picture:

===

Talks Under Way to Replace Iraq PM
By HAMZA HENDAWI and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA
Sunday, December 10, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Major partners in Iraq's governing coalition are in behind-the-scenes talks to oust Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki amid discontent over his failure to quell raging violence, according to lawmakers involved.

The talks are aimed at forming a new parliamentary bloc that would seek to replace the current government and that would likely exclude supporters of the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is a vehement opponent of the U.S. military presence.

The new alliance would be led by senior Shiite politician Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, who met with President Bush last week. Al-Hakim, however, was not expected to be the next prime minister because he prefers the role of powerbroker, staying above the grinding day-to-day running of the country.

A key figure in the proposed alliance, Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, a Sunni Arab, left for Washington on Sunday for a meeting with Bush at least three weeks ahead of schedule.

"The failure of the government has forced us into this in the hope that it can provide a solution," said Omar Abdul-Sattar, a lawmaker from al-Hashemi's Iraqi Islamic Party. "The new alliance will form the new government."

The groups engaged in talks have yet to agree on a leader...

They said al-Maliki was livid at the attempt to unseat him.

"We know what's going on and we will sabotage it," said a close al-Maliki aide who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities involved. He did not elaborate.

A senior aide to al-Sadr, who insisted on anonymity for the same reason, said the proposed alliance was primarily designed to exclude the cleric's backers and they would resist.

Al-Maliki's government, under the Iraqi constitution, could be ousted if a simple majority of parliament's 275 members opposed it in a vote of confidence. Parties in the talks expressed confidence they had enough votes.

"The question of confidence in this government must be reconsidered," Parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, a Sunni Arab, told legislators Sunday. "Why should we continue to support it? For its failure?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/10/AR2006121000633.html

Looks like Maliki and Sadr would like to hold onto power but the consensus is that they are failing and must be replaced, hopefully soon.
Because of this development, I do not think the rosy RV speculation for December will pan out.
But maybe after they get this political development out of the way, it might happen.

Sara.

-- December 11, 2006 1:35 PM ∞

---

dale wrote:

hello,
I was looking for information on the Iraqi Dinar. This is where I ended up.
I have enjoyed reading your post.
I have dinar & was wondering if anyone knows what my options for selling it,if & when its reaches strength against the doller.

-- December 11, 2006 1:53 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Rob:
For what it is worth, neither did Elaine and I wanted our beloved dogs to suffer, because we were selfish and wanted them to stay in this dimension with us. Momma Dog, a Pit Bull was 16 years old, Lucky, a walker hound was 12 years old. Both last year, had been diagnosed with cancer at different stages. However, we also wanted to love them and make the last remaining months of their lifes, enjoyable as we could make it. We worked with our Vet, in that, every month, we took them and had their blood drawn. Apparently, as the body starts to shut down, a certain chemistry starts to occur within the blood, indicating a time of fore coming death. This was monitored, and as the time drew near, we could see the change in their demeanor. They did not eat as much, started to become weak, and slept a lot. I can still feel the warmth of their body as I held them for hours,talking to them about how much they had contributed to my family and life. I look back on this now, and I believe I got just as much out of that time of holding as they did. As the last final days came, I could see it in their eyes as they looked at us, to let us know that it was going to be OK! That they loved us also, but it was getting close to the time for them to go.
As the time arrived, we had the Vet come out to our home, and put them to sleep while they laid in our arms.
I hope, that when my time comes to leave this dimension, I am able to cuddled in someone's arms who loves me and much as the love elaine and I felt for them.
May your guiding angel, comfort you in the moments that not only will be hard, but will also give you a gift of true unconditional love, as you help "your buddy" past to the other side. He is truthly blessed to call you "Buddy".

-- December 11, 2006 2:13 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

If the US allows Iran to have nuclear weapons..
why can't all the other Arab states have nukes, too?
For them, it only stands to reason...
after all, it is for 'peaceful' purposes, too.. right?
Nuclear proliferation...

===

Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Six oil-rich Gulf nations have said they are considering seeking nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.
Sunday, 10 December 2006

Officials from Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE also urged a peaceful settlement to the crisis over Iran's nuclear programme.

The six Arab states said they were exploring the possibility of creating a shared nuclear programme.

They stressed their right to nuclear energy and emphasised that any programme would be peaceful.

Officials from the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) - a grouping of regional states - have been meeting in Riyadh.

A GCC statement released on Sunday said: "The states of the region have a right to possess nuclear technology for peaceful purposes."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6167041.stm

-- December 11, 2006 2:33 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Talabani Calls Iraq Report 'Dangerous'
December 10, 2006
By KIM GAMEL

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The Iraqi president said Sunday the bipartisan U.S. report calling for a new approach to the war offered dangerous recommendations that would undermine his country's sovereignty and were "an insult to the people of Iraq."

President Jalal Talabani was the most senior government official to take a stand against the Iraq Study Group report, which has come under criticism from leaders of the governing Shiite and Kurdish parties.

He said the report "is not fair, is not just, and it contains some very dangerous articles which undermine the sovereignty of Iraq and the constitution."

He singled out the report's call for the approval of a de-Baathification law that could allow thousands of officials from Saddam Hussein's ousted Baath party to return to their jobs.

The Kurdish leader also criticized the call for increasing the number of U.S. troops embedded to train Iraqis from 3,000 to 4,000 currently to 10,000 to 20,000.

"It is not respecting the desire of the Iraqi people to control its army and to be able to rearm and train Iraqi forces under the leadership of the Iraqi government," he said.

He said the Iraqi government planned to send a letter to President Bush "expressing our views about the main issues" in the report, although he would not elaborate.

The recommendations, which are not binding, also have met opposition from some in the United States...

"If you read this report, one would think that it is written for a young, small colony that they are imposing these conditions on," Talabani said. "We are a sovereign country."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/news/2006/dec/10/121009703.html

-- December 11, 2006 2:46 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Carl:

Thank you for those comforting words. I will try to keep them in perspective as I deal with the inevitable death of Aston Martin.

Thanks,
Rob N.

-- December 11, 2006 2:51 PM ∞

---

Madbrad wrote:

Dale

I hope you get the answers your looking for? at the moment it's all about heaven, earth and dogs! there's bound to be some action soon....may be not!!!!

-- December 11, 2006 3:19 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Concerning the rumors, hunches, and prognostications about a looming RV. I am in agreement that the outster of Malaki may delay the currencies revaluation. Especially if the PM chooses not to go quitely. Regardless of any short term delay in a revaluation the over all health of the government is more important.

In my view, the gulf states pursuing a "peaceful" nuclear capability is an alarm that should be sounded from the roof tops and a warning our U.S. Government whether Democrat or Republican must heed. It underlines the need for the U.S. to be in Iraq. A democratic Iraq with continued U.S. military support will counterbalance those in a region pursuing this type of ability.

After our military role in Iraq is completed, I can envision an American Congress appropriating funds to build a strong Iraqi military. Boeing and McDonald Duglass get ready Iraqi contracts will eventually start pouring in. Both Israel and Iraq will be the two strongest allies in the region.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 11, 2006 4:28 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

When I recently and unexpectedly lost my mother to a.. sudden incident.. I had a sense of comfort which went beyond all the nice words everyone so kindly gave in condolences to me. I cannot possibly think of the end of my life without that sense of God's Presence close to me to see me through the transition to the next life. I do not know if any of my loved ones will be able to be there when I die as I do not know exactly how I will die or from what cause. It would be disconcerting... if I didn't have such assurance in my heart that... the overwhelming sense of being held and carried through which I had at that time will be with me by God's Grace when I am at the end. I liken it to the Scripture:

Isa 49:15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you.

Isa 49:16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands..."

It is this assurance that I will not go into eternity alone or forgotten, no matter what the circumstances, that I turn to. I will not ever be in a place without God's compassion.. for I am written on the palms of His hands and He does remember me.

This experience I had in the depths of my sudden sorrow I take with me daily now as a blessing.. knowing by it the reality of this Scripture and that I will never be alone to face death, (mine or that of any loved one) no matter what. This is not just words on a page, this is present apprehension - tangible comfort and assurance in the face of death. I have felt it and know it will be there - increased to me again - as God will give the needed Grace at the time. This Grace is not like working up something (psyching up, like a coach before a game), it is more like a quiet brook softly flowing in the background all the days of your life (Ps 23:2 - "He leads me beside the still waters.").. and then, as you near death, the brook is suddenly flooded with water to the point of almost bursting its banks. He supplies all we need in the way of strength, just in time for when we need it...

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

I had some difficulty understanding this Scripture before I experienced the depth of God's Grace and help through the sorrow of dealing with death. It need not be a thing of fear, but faced with comfort - as a precious homecoming - going to be with Him. It saddens me that, "not all men have faith." (2Th 3:2) - for I cannot fathom facing such an ultimate fear and sorrow alone and without tangible comfort and compassion filling my soul. The assuring words and compassions from the people around me were not enough in my sorrow.. I needed far more, and received it - by faith - from God. It is this I wish for you and as many others as can receive it - this solid faith and assurance in the face of death - because it is the best gift I think one can have.

Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

I therefore hope you have the arms of a loved one about you as you face the end, but more importantly, that you have the inward peace and assurance in your soul from God which no human can give.

As for your Aston Martin, Rob N., I hold to the notion expressed by the author of "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" - C.S. Lewis - who had a great love for animals (so many of his characters were animals in the Chronicles of Narnia). He said that he believed that if an animal is loved by a human on earth, they will go to heaven. No Scripture for that one directly, but it shows a compassionate God, and I believe his reasoning and arguments concerning this (he wrote an essay on the subject which I read - I think in his collection called "God in the Dock".) I found myself agreeing with his compelling logic and theology on this point. Such partings are so much easier to take - knowing it is not forever. I wish for you comfort and tangible hope of eternal life in the face of mankind's most heartbreaking enemy, death - whatever form it takes.

Sara.

-- December 11, 2006 4:57 PM ∞

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Dale..... wrote:

When the Dinar RV's, and it's on the open market, sell enough to take care of immediate needs and hang on to the rest of it because it probably will go up even further. Gain more knowledge about the Dinar by reading as much as you can on different forums.

-- December 11, 2006 6:34 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Japan to provide USD 710 million loan to Iraq

TOKYO, Dec 11 (KUNA) -- Japan will provide an JPY 82.64 billion (USD 710.6 million) loan to Iraq ...

Of the amount, JPY 50.05 billion (USD 430.4 million) will be used for the construction of a pipeline to export oil from the southern Iraqi city of Basra. The remaining JPY 32.59 billion (USD 280.2 million) will be used to stabilize power transmission across the nation.

The loan is the latest batch of the up to USD 3.5 billion worth of low-interest loans which Tokyo pledged for Iraq at the international donors' meeting in October 2003 in Madrid. Japan, a key donor to Iraq, has pledged to provide Iraq a total of USD 5 billion in aid for its reconstruction for a four-year period from 2004 to 2007, including USD 1.5 billion in grants.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=933060

-- December 11, 2006 9:46 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

AP Admits to Using Unauthorized Sources
Posted by Robin Boyd on December 10, 2006 - 09:59.

Despite all the claims of standing by their stories, the AP now admits to the use of unauthorized sources. The infamous Qais al-Bashir posted another sectarian violence story via AP this morning. Al-Bashir offered up the typical Sunni-Shiite blood-letting but this time he was honest about his sources:

On Sunday morning, clashes erupted between Sunni and Shiite militants in Baghdad's mixed western Amil district, a policeman said. One Shiite militiaman was killed and six people — five Sunnis and one Shiite — were wounded, the officer said on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to the media.

Al-Bashir could not resist throwing in some of the media's patented techniques of anonymous sources afraid for their safety:

The policemen spoke on condition of anonymity out of concern for their own safety.

Witnesses said Shiite militiamen entered Hurriyah after Sunnis warned the few Shiites living there to leave or be killed. Heavy machine gun fire was heard and three columns of black smoke rose into the sky, the witnesses said on condition of anonymity, also out of concern for their own safety.

The use of "anonymous" sources is nothing more than a journalistic ploy to prevent others from verifying the information presented. While the "not authorized to talk to the media" phrase is a step in the right direction, the AP has yet to offer up proof of their best source, Jamil Hussein.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9575

-- December 11, 2006 10:13 PM ∞

---

Dennis wrote:

I currently have a cat recently diagnosed with feline lukemia. Tumors in the intestines and lungs. I have taken him to 2 different vets, both with basically the same prognosis-very little time to live. The only remedy is shots of predisone, a steroid, or chemotherapy. His age, 15 years, and outlook for those treaments are not to my liking, and I don't want him to suffer. I took him to a naturopath vet who stated that the food he eats is what is killing him. I've changed his diet to raw foods like rabbit, venison, chicken and lamb. Also give him a few drops of 'cantron' at mealtime. It is an antioxidant. In addition, a pill of 'feline immune system enhancer' twice a day. This is at the directon of the vet.
I can tell you its been 3 months ago when he was first diagnosed and he is really doing well. His appetite is good and he still chases my other cat. It might be something that other people with pets might try when confronted with a catastrophic pet illness. He is 15 years old and seems like he might live into old age. "Don't give up, don't give up, don't ever give up".

-- December 11, 2006 10:45 PM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Sara, let me tell you a sweet little secret.......you don't die. Scriptures saids: Better the day of death than the day of birth.

-- December 11, 2006 11:32 PM ∞

---

Valerio wrote:

As Iraq descends further into violence and disarray, the Pentagon is turning to a weapon some believe should have been used years ago: jobs.

Members of a small Pentagon task force have gone to the most dangerous areas of Iraq over the past six months to bring life to nearly 200 state-owned factories abandoned by the Coalition Provisional Authority after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. Their goal is to employ tens of thousands of Iraqis in coming months, part of a plan to reduce soaring unemployment and lessen the violence that has crippled progress
Defense officials and military commanders say that festering unemployment -- at 70 percent in some areas -- is leading Iraqi men to take cash from insurgents to place bombs on roads or take shots at U.S. troops. Other Iraqis are joining sectarian attacks because their quality of life has slipped dramatically, officials say.Army Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, the top U.S. field commander in Iraq, said that tackling unemployment could do far more good than adding U.S. combat troops or more aggressively pursuing an elusive enemy. He said the project to open the factories and stimulate local economies is long overdue and was born "of desperation."

"We need to put the angry young men to work," Chiarelli said in a phone interview from Baghdad. "One of the key hindrances to us establishing stability in Iraq is the failure to get the economy going. A relatively small decrease in unemployment would have a very serious effect on the level of sectarian killing going on."

The CPA initially hoped private investors would buy or lease the state factories, but that did not happen as security faltered and much of Iraq became inaccessible. As privatization hopes failed, the factories were languishing, some in pristine form and others looted, when the Pentagon task force examined them this fall. The tens of thousands of Iraqis who used to make them run -- the country's second-largest employment group, after the army -- remained out of work.

Pentagon officials say the vast majority of former Iraqi factory workers are still unemployed and bringing in no pay. A small portion of the workforce receives government stipends, akin to welfare, but the pay system is badly flawed and provides about 20 percent of what the workers would make if fully employed, the officials said.

Economic development is a departure from the military's usual missions, but officials think the Defense Department's heft as a consumer of goods and services can boost the effort. The department has been reaching out to U.S. companies that can place large orders for products from Iraq.

Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England set the task force in motion in June after Paul A. Brinkley, deputy undersecretary of defense, returned from a visit to Iraq the month before.

Brinkley, who returned last night from a trip to Iraq with his team, said thousands of Iraqis lost their jobs and the ability to support their families when CPA projections dimmed. Unrest followed the absence of work.

‘Hot list’
"After three years of unemployment in excess of 50 percent, there are no people in the world that wouldn't be undergoing violence and militias," Brinkley said. "That's human nature. And I think we have to do whatever we have to do to alleviate that problem if we are going to create stability."

So far, members of the task force have visited 26 factories in some of the worst areas of the country, traveling to Baghdad, Fallujah, Mosul, Najaf and Ramadi to inspect facilities that make cement, tile, rubber and textiles. They have identified 10 factories -- their "hot list" of facilities in both Sunni and Shiite areas -- that they think could be open and employing more than 11,000 Iraqis within the next month.

The task force hopes to have a rolling system of factory openings spanning 2007. Part of that effort, its members said, is to reevaluate how the Defense Department spends nearly $4 billion each year to support troops in Iraq.
Brinkley said he hopes that at least 25 percent of that total -- about $1 billion -- could be spent on orders from Iraqi companies that previously have gone to firms in neighboring countries, such as Jordan and Kuwait. "We're not seeking to invest in Iraq, but to buy from Iraq," Brinkley said.

Stuart W. Bowen Jr., the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, whose office has been critical of the rebuilding effort, said that defense officials are "right on target in pushing this."

"It's about stimulating interest and getting contracts going between U.S. firms and Iraqi firms. That's the goal," he said. "The solution in Iraq is not primarily a military one. It is primarily an economic and political solution
Bowen said defense officials recently met with about two dozen key business leaders at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to gauge private industry's interest in the program. He acknowledged that corruption and lack of security remain major obstacles to U.S. commercial investment in Iraq but said he is impressed that business leaders "recognize that and are still interested in moving forward."

Caterpillar Inc., a $36 billion construction equipment firm, is one of the first U.S. companies to show interest. Gerald L. Shaheen, a Caterpillar group president and chairman of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said he probably would be looking for low-tech supplies, such as hinges, but said the program dovetails with the company's interest in expanding opportunities in the Middle East.

‘Social responsibility’
"But I can't look at this solely as a business proposition. I've already got suppliers," Shaheen said. "I'm doing this because I think there's a social responsibility not only to the Iraqi people but to our troops."

Dow Chemical Co., a $46 billion firm that sells plastics and other products in more than 175 countries, is also considering what supplies it can purchase from Iraq.

"We see this as a positive initiative and very much hope that we can find the appropriate opportunities to support business activity in the country," a Dow spokesman said.

U.S. businesses were looking at Iraq as a significant opportunity before the war began. With vast oil resources, underserved population and strategic location, that nation had all the markings of a place for U.S firms to expand. But few have found success there.

Major American companies that went into Iraq on U.S. government contracts, including Bechtel, Parsons and Halliburton subsidiary KBR, had hoped reconstruction work would serve as a natural bridge to private-sector deals in Iraq. Instead, they found rampant violence, with many U.S.-funded projects coming under attack and workers being targeted. The firms also received bad publicity when projects did not go as planned.

Now, with their contracts expiring, Parsons and Bechtel are closing up shop in Iraq and returning home. KBR is doing the same with its reconstruction work, though it continues to hold a major contract supporting the U.S. Army.

"We're pleading with the companies to give Iraq a second or third look," said retired Lt. Gen. Daniel Christman, senior vice president for international affairs at the Chamber of Commerce. "This is very different from asking that they go into Fallujah and build a plant. That's not the intent."

‘Is it too late?’
Rep. William D. Delahunt (D-Mass.), incoming chairman of the oversight and investigations subcommittee of the House International Relations Committee, said part of the CPA "disaster" was that obvious ideas, such as creating employment for Iraqis, were ignored.

"It's a concept that common sense would dictate to pursue," Delahunt said. "I think the key question is: Is it too late?"

Chiarelli said unemployment in Iraq is daunting because many working Iraqis support as many as 13 family members, meaning unemployment has exponential effects on the country.

"There's no doubt in my mind that it has the potential to turn the tide," he said. "I find it unbelievable after four years that we haven't come to that realization. . . . To me, it's huge. It's as important as just about any other part of the campaign plan."

All
Isn't it amazing! We have all been saying the same things for a lond time now. Economic growth, paychecks to buy "stuff" and support the family, along with justice, political and economic freedoms of democracy will be the weapons that bring the victory to the Iraqi people.
The seeds have been planted, and the sprouts are shooting forth, when the Iraqi's see it, every individual will see the benefit of pulling the "Tares" from his own garden that there may be fruit to harvest.

-- December 12, 2006 3:52 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Roger wrote:

"As a kid, my grandma took me to a meeting, where grown ups was talking tongues, and drooled all over themselves, and asked me if I didn't want to join, I refused. Later on still as a kid, I was on a Christian summer camp, and I was so amazed to hear all those stories from kids that was "saved by Jesus" , I heard one remarkable story after another, of how enormous wonderful it was.

Ok I wanted that kick too, so I said I wanted to follow in Jesus footstep. All the leaders and the converted kids had a big HURRAY, and converted over me in a prayer session. Ok when it was done, I went over to a mountain top and looked over a really beautiful area.

Nothing had changed. I was still me, no angels, no harp music or any other psychedelic opera, that all the kids have been telling me about."

==end of quote===

Hmm.. I have been thinking about this and thought I would share with you what happened to me, as I think it may be relevant.

When I decided I wanted to become a Christian, I remembered all I had been taught and absorbed from Christians and using that knowledge I prayed and asked Jesus to come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior. Nothing happened. I was the same. I was very puzzled because, as you said here, I thought that was all you had to do, and obviously it didn't "work". There I knelt (I was on my knees praying) but nothing.. like you said, no harp music, no psychedelic opera.. nothing. I strained my ears.. the neighbors were having a party and I could just hear the tinkling of glasses and laughter.. nothing different for me, though.

As I puzzled on my lack of change, I suddenly saw in my mind a corridor, and I saw myself walking along it. On either side of this corridor were doors. I saw that as I had walked by some of the doors, I had left them closed. Others, I had opened. I then understood that I had personally opened those doors and was responsible for those choices I had made in life to open them. Some of the choices I had made were good, others were not. I had made some wrong choices in life to open some wrong doors, and I alone was responsible before God for those wrong choices..

As this dawned upon me, I felt the burden of those wrong choices pressing strongly upon me, and it caused a terrible sinking feeling in my heart, I said, "Oh, God.. I am so sorry. I am so sorry.. (I groped for words, then said) I am so sorry that I have SINNED." It was then, when I acknowledged my sins (the wrong choices I had made myself and was responsible to God for and was sorry for) only then did it happen.. and I suddenly had this incredible peace fill my soul, like a cup is filled with water.

It was those TWO elements together that finally brought me to the point of truly becoming a Christian. The asking Jesus into my heart to be my Lord and Savior.. but also the full acknowledgement of my sins and being sorry to God for them. Without both elements.. it doesn't "work". Perhaps that is why the prayer you prayed didn't "work", because I know that the churches and Christians I knew had only said to ask Jesus into your heart to be your Lord and Savior.. but they did not ask you to admit your guilt before God for making choices in life which are wrong and sinful. But if we do not ask for His forgiveness for our sins/wrong choices, He cannot come in to our hearts to be our Lord. He is the Savior FROM SIN (that is why He died on the cross, to take away our sins), and without the acknowledgement of the sin and asking for forgiveness, He will not come into a non-repentant heart. I have not received this teaching of repentance from the churches I had attended or the Christians I knew, but by that picture in my mind of opening doors which the Lord Himself gave to me. (And the Bible says a lot about repenting too, I later learned.) Therefore, I thought it may be that you were in a similar situation with this camp you attended - that you were with "Christian" people who did not teach repentance and asking forgiveness from God for your sins. That could be the reason it didn't "work" for you (and it didn't for me the first time I prayed, either.)

I suggest you try the two together by praying something like this, "Heavenly Father, I come to You in Jesus' Name and I acknowledge that I have made wrong choices in my life and sinned against you. I am sorry for them and ask Your forgiveness for them - I ask You to forgive all of my sins. I ask that You, Lord Jesus, would now come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior, covering all my sins with Your precious blood and paying for them so I might have fellowship with You. For truly, "our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." -1John 1:3. In the precious name of Jesus Christ I pray, Amen."

Hopefully that will "work". I know that God wishes all men to come to Him and any that do, He will not push away or cast out from Himself (John 6:32, 2 Peter 3:9). There is no lack of willingness in God to receive you - it must be a wrong approach to God and in this case, this is how I came to know Him personally, by both repenting and asking Him into my heart to be my Lord and Savior. It can't hurt to try.. hopefully that gets the combination right.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 4:42 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Willie.. yes, better is the end of a thing than the beginning of it, Solomon said. It is far better to finish a project than to start it.. right?

Valerio - Better late than never.. glad they finally see the need to get the Iraqis jobs. It is part of the winning strategy, if only they had implemented it before! But they do have some pretty heavy duty spiritual opposition.. I am hoping they push this through and get these winning economic strategies into place.. it can turn Iraq around, they are right. Super article/post.. thank you! :)

Dennis;

Thanks.. I had read that the cat and dog food industry put too much ash into the food and it hurts the animals kidneys.. that it slowly poisons them. But no one really cared for the longest time because it is just a pet, a "mere" animal. :(
I found one page on the net about cat and ash on google which says:

Could dry cat food be another cause of my cats urine problems?

In some cases, yes. I was told by a vet that a high ash content (above 3% ) can cause urninary problems such as kidney stones in male cats.

They say that there are dry cat food now available that minimizes the risk of the cat developing kidney krystals and UTI and FUS. But I am always skeptical. I lost my beloved Pezza through chronic UTI and FUS. This was back in 1993 when very little was yet known on the connection between dry cat food and these diseases. I fed Pezza mostly dry food but he had half a bowl or less of wet food nearly everyday too.

Then a year ago, my sister-in-law's 10 year old cat succumbed to kidney failure after a long and expensive battle. Again, this cat was fed on an almost exclusive diet of dry cat food - and water was ALWAYS available to her.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061209164751AAXJXtP

I think they should eat as close to their own natural diet as is possible, perhaps with a proven tumor stopper in it (antioxidant), like red raspberry seeds, which have had phenomenal results on human tumors because of their Ellagic Acid content:

Ellagic Acid in Red Raspberry Seeds

Ellagic Acid may be one the most potent ways to fight Cancer. Ellagic Acid, a phenolic compound, is a proven anti-carcinogen, anti-mutagen, and anti-cancer initiator!

The Hollings Cancer Institute at the University of South Carolina is doing a double blind study on a large group of 500 cervical cancer patients that has everyone excited.

Nine years of study have shown that a natural product called ellagic acid is causing G-arrest within 48 hours (inhibiting and stopping mitosis-cancer cell division), and apoptosis (normal cell death) within 72 hours, for breast, pancreas, esophageal, skin, colon and prostate cancer cells.

Clinical tests also show that ellagic acid prevents the destruction of the p53 gene by cancer cells, and additional studies suggest that one of the mechanisms by which ellagic acid inhibits mutagenesis and carcinogenesis is by forming adducts with DNA, thus masking binding sites to be occupied by the mutagen or carcinogen.

Ellagic acid can be found in different foods. The Hollings Clinic has identified the red raspberry for their studies

Ellagic Acid is a member of the ellagitannin family of compounds. Ellagic acid may be one the most potent ways to fight Cancer. Ellagic Acid is an ellagitannin found in red raspberries. Ellagic Acid, a phenolic compound, is a proven anti-carcinogen, anti-mutagen, and anti-cancer initiator!

Research conducted at the Hollings Cancer Institute at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) indicates that Ellagic Acid slows the growth of abnormal colon cells in humans, prevents the development of cells infected with human papilloma virus (HPV) which is linked to cervical cancer, and promotes apoptotic growth (natural death) of prostate cancer cells. The apoptotic process, triggered by this antioxidant also has beneficial effects on breast, lung, esophageal, and skin cancer (melanoma).

Medical findings in Europe further show that ellagic acid reduces the incidence of birth defects, promotes wound healing, reduces and reverses chemically induced liver fibrosis, and is helpful in the fight against heart disease!

HOW DOES IT WORK? Ellagic Acid is a phenolic compound that has become known as a potent anti-carcinogenic/anti-mutagenic compound. It also has anti-bacterial and anti-viral properties. Ellagic Acid itself is not thought to be naturally present in plants. Instead, polymers of gallic acid and hexahydroxydipenoyl (HHDP) are linked to glucose centers to form the class of compounds known as ellagitannins. When two gallic acid groups become linked side by side within a tannin molecule an HHDP group is formed. Ellagic Acid is the result when the HHDP group is cleaved from the tannin molecule and spontaneously rearrages. It is the ellagitannins that are present in red raspberries. The Meeker Red Raspberry is the best source of Ellagic Acid, followed by the Chiliwak and Willamette. The Meeker variety is specific to the Pacific Northwest and is grown primarily for commercial use in Washington State. The availability to the body of Ellagic Acid from dietary sources has only been confirmed with red raspberries. Other foods such as strawberries, pomegranates, and walnuts contain far lesser amounts of Ellagic Acid. The bioavailability from these has not yet been confirmed!

ELLAGIC ACID REDUCES THE INCIDENCE OF CANCER! Ellagic acid acts as a scavenger to bind cancer-causing chemicals, making them inactive! It inhibits the ability of other chemicals to cause mutations in bacteria. In addition, Ellagic Acid from red raspberries prevents binding of carcinogens to DNA, and reduces the incidence of cancer in cultured human cells exposed to carcinogens.

http://cancerarmy.org/ellagic_acid_is_a_member_of_the.htm

-- December 12, 2006 5:17 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

In case you are interested in the Meeker Red Raspberry seeds they used in this study I just quoted, I found this one pound of it on the net for 34.95.. seems reasonable to me and you could sprinkle it on the petfood... ?? Found the page here:

http://www.remu.us/Raspberry.html

Also, as a preventative, humans sprinkle it on some yogurt and put on top some (raspberry) jam on top for breakfast...

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 5:27 AM ∞

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Willie wrote:

Where is Carole? Her last post was on Dec 8.

-- December 12, 2006 6:05 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Announcement No.(824)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 824 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Tuesday 2006 / 12/ 12 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 11 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1416 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 18.180.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 18.180.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) ------

-- December 12, 2006 6:26 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:

So! True! I just put it another way...I have been given three tools to create...THOUGHTS-WORDS-DEEDS
That creation is my reality on this earthly plane...from that creation springs fore the experiences of the utilization of those tools...
Some individuals divide the experences into good or bad....I choose to call them neither bad or good...just experiences that are designed to allow me to experience life,and bring forth the results of my choices into reality so that I may see, taste, hear, or touch them... after all you can tell me what coffee taste like all of your life...but unless I choose to taste it for my self....I truthly do not know...then the decision is made to continue to drink from the cup or put it down forever...
How can an experience be bad if it has made me such a wiser person...I say all experiences are gifts from the creator for without dark how could you recognize light, without sadness how would one get the experience of happiness and laughter...and so on...
Example:
Once as an Oklahoma City Police Officer (22 Yrs old at time), I had a habit of reacting and asking questions later. That choice got me into trouble, as I hurt a man when I lost my temper..the end result was not being fired...but placed in Oklahoma City's version of "Hell's Kitchen" for 2 years, so I could experence all of the fighting I wanted.
That was one of the toughest and greatest lessons of my life. It taught me the most powerful tool I had as an Law Enforcement Officer was my brain and communication skills, not the club, not the fist, not the breaking of a arm, not the gun. Yes! those were tools that sometimes had to be used..but to use them ...other choices should have been tried first...sadly...sometimes they were the first...
By the end of my career, I was an Interrogative Officer for violent crimes and polygraphist for the Sheriff Dept. My point is... one set of choices...led me to another set of choices with a more pleasant experience...

You referred to some of your choices as sin....I refer to them as simply as learning choices...that make your soul wiser...I did not have to wait to be judged at the end of my life...I received the experience right then and there...I learned quickly...don't like the experience...simply change your way of making choices...personally, I think the creator laughs when he/she sees us make some of our choices...and says, to him/herself with a smile...didn't like that one hu!
I have come to realize we are not our body, nor are we our brain ....I feel we are so much more....we are what the creator is...we are life...and life...never dies, just as willie believes...but then again I know I am preaching to the choir here...so I guess I am utilizing you as a tool to bring forth what to me is the obvious...
I am responsible for my choices...I place no ill will toward anyone for any decision I have made in my life...I alone stand naked with those decision and the resulting experience...I feel that only angels have entered into my life...for each.... regardless of their actions with or against me, have caused me to make choices that have created who I am today...and I am content with who I am...I like me....I feel no need at this autumn stage of my earthly existence to impress anyone about who I am...I hope every reader and blogger of this board reaches that contentment before they leave this earthly plane..
You refer to your choices as doors to be opened or left close...but you feel you must repent for those choices made...I do not...for I feel the creator sent me here to learn....and making choices that give us experiences that make us wiser is just part of the process...So in a way we look at things the same..... but with different sets of emotions about those choices...so our life path continues each reviewing the doors or choices as the seasons of our life changes...along the way...we take different paths because of separate views...but in the end...we both end up back at the creator's door...

-- December 12, 2006 7:09 AM ∞

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willie wrote:

Carl and Sara, I think if you both went down that hallway again you'd probably find the doors you once opened closed but with blood on the doorknobs. Thanks for opening your hearts.

-- December 12, 2006 7:45 AM ∞

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Carole wrote:

Hi Willie,

I have been extremely busy finishing a Christmas project. I got very behind due to going back to work and the time spent on this site, so the last 4 days I have done nothing but work on the project until it is finally in the mail.

Things had gotten pretty quite on this site, but I see that in a few days alot of discussion has gone on.

Some of it I dare not get involved in...lol.

I was especially moved by the discussion of our doggy friends.

It is amazing at the subtle relationship and dependency we have on our pets.

My husband and I have had Chow Chow dogs for over 25 years. We lost our first one at age 7 when we moved from the Sequoia Mountain area to the city. He was hit by a car. Then we got Queenie who lived for 13 years and got cancer over night. Just stopped eating and within a week we had to have her put to sleep. My family almost didn't survive. My husband and I who are pretty strong people folded under the loss. You would have thought we lost one of our children.
Our Vet actually referred us to a pet psychologist. As crazy as it sounds he actually helped us alot, because our grief was unconsolable.

Chows can be very vicious dogs. They have more recorded lethal bites than Pit BUlls. So with all of our grandchildren around we studied the breed extensively and learned that you have to keep a Chow very domesticated. Which means you have to keep them as "house dogs". They are a wonderful house dog, full of curiosity, extreme loyalty and an intuition that is always 10 steps ahead of you. We have to spell in front of our dogs, and I swear sometimes that doesn't even work!!!
The Vet psych said that an immediate "cure " to pet grief is to get another pet right away. Same breed if possible. So one night when I didn't think I could cry anymore, I threw out all of Queenie's toys, shut the lights and went to bed. (My husband was at work). About 10pm, the door bell rang and it was all of my children and grandchildren bringing me a baby Chow(6 weeks old). They look like a fuzzy little bear at that age
( almost like a toy stuffed animal). I was shocked! My son in law ( 5th daughter's husband )had found a breeder 100 miles away and went to get him.

I was reluctant to even look at the puppy, so it took about 3 minutes to fall in love with him. We all immediately got in our cars and took the puppy to my husbands work. It was amazing to see a 6'2" policeman fall apart at the site of the puppy.

I carried Bentley around for 4 months and rocked him and cuddled him everywhere I went. I even took him to work.

My husband and I decided that we could never go through the agony of losing a pet again and took the advice of the vet and bought another Chow about 6 months later.

We now have the 2 CHows, Bentley and Bernice!! That was 8 years ago. The problem as I see it now is that Bentley and Bernice could never live without eachother, and we could never live without either one of them. Benetley is starting to get arthritis in his hips and Bernice helps him get up and nutures him when he doesn't feel well. It is amazing to watch.

Now one would think that having 5 children, 12 grandchildren would insure that when Bentley and Bernice are gone we would be fine!! But history tells us differently.

Now that we are older, we may think about a smaller breed for our lap buddies!! haha.

It is extremely hard to watch a pet deteriorate and my heart goes out to Rob. The pups are so helpless and can't tell us what hurts. We can only give them our best judgement, and ultimatley their fate is on our hands.

OUr only consolation is the old saying.."better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all"...

On the Dinar note: think I am going to buy more. Our RE friend says the emminent resolving oil issues will demand a RV sooner than later. Plus the IMF July 07 deadline for Iraq will be coming on. Iraq has to get it together by Spring to meet those requirements
( mostly debt reduction).

According to his sources, the only influence the violence in the country has on the oil companies is the cost of security. Once that has been nailed down, it is a go and the drilling and construction moves fast forward. Can't stop the violence without improving the financial situation for the citizens, and the RV is probably the only answer to that. The RV is the fastest answer to debt reduction also. Sooooooo, looks like it is a better investment bet than it was months ago when I first bought.

Israel is also becoming less hush hush about their Nuclear capabilities, and I think that it is good timing as far as putting Iran on notice.

I agree that GREED will more than likely take precedent over any faction involved in the equation. I am hoping that it will supercede even the Islamofascist mentallity. Again, right or wrong, history of the human heart takes precedent. LUST and GREED and the love of them thereof, dominates behavior.

Again, right or wrong, it is just the way it has always been and will probably
always be....at least until the Lord returns.

Carole

-- December 12, 2006 9:21 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Roger: Hi, sorry about talking about you in the third person. That was a bit tacky.

Oakie:

Regarding your comments on human greed. I was reading recently about oil rich Sudan, in a magazine run by conservative religious Christians, and Jews. Here's an African riddle from someone who was in Sudan: (not me) What causes war, when it is in the ground, but unearthed, may bring peace? The answer is oil, obviously.

There has been a twenty-one year long war, by the Islamist Khartoum government, faught mainly against the Christian south of that country. An estimated two million people have been killed. A local Alberta company, Talisman Energy, has long been a player, in that country, in the oil business. Now, my heart breaks for the victums of violence. But this is also an instructive situation. Despite cultural genocide, mass murder, the "religious cleansing" of one group in that country, namely Christians, and a multi-decade long and savage war, despite all that, the relentless pursuit of black gold goes one. This reminds me of what my brother in law told me. He teaches in Asia. He said the Chinese character, or symbol, for disaster, is also the symbol for opportunity. There's a lesson in that. Everyone on this site seems to have a lot of faith, in human greed. I do. This seems to be a faith shared by everyone on this site, whether Christian, or not.

We all seem to agree in the power of human greed to win in the end, in Iraq. Now, greed has a bad reputation, that I think is undeserved. People say it's awful. But is it? Greed has many nice qualities. One great thing about greed is that it is non-judgemental about you. It doesn't care what your race, or religion, or ethnicity is, or what you believe in, politically. Greed doesn't care is two million Christians are killed in Darfur. Nor does it Not care. It has no opinion on politics or morality. Genocide or no genocide, greed gets up every morning and goes to work, like a real trooper. It doesn't care if you are a good person, or not. Greed is friendly to everyone. It doesn't argue with anyone. Greed could care less what your opinions about anything is. It doesn't oppose anyone, or their views. Nor is it in favour of anyone's opinions. It doesn't discriminate against anyone. It doesn't hate or dislike anyone. It doesn't care about you, nor does it Not care about your. Your feelings mean nothing, to it. It doesn't want to save your soul, bring you to Jesus, or Buddah, or to people dancing at the airport, in orange sarongs, singing Hare Krishna. Greed won't try to change your mind. It just wants to give you money, to buy stuff. Greed is Forest Gump simple, in a world of complications.

Money buys stuff. Everyone likes money. And I mean everyone. Even a nutcase like Osama bin Laden, who, as I'm sure everyone knows, comes from the richest family in Saudi Arabia, even he likes money, if only to help pay for doing evil things. Without greed, and oil, his familiy would be nothing but a bunch of disgruntled goat farmers, posing for photographers from National Geographic, and showing tourists around.

My views on greed? Anything that wants to give me a bunch of money is welcome at my dinner table.

This whole thing reminds me of sailing. Like a sailor on the ocean, on a calm day, I'm just looking for signs, of a shift in the weather, so I can hoist the mainsail, catch the wind, and sail away. And that's what this site if for. It's a weather report chatsite. We all know the wind is coming. We don't know when, but we know it is reliable. It always shows up, eventually. So, keep watching the sky, keep watching the clouds, people. The wind'll show up eventually.

So, if someone is going to have money on this , it may as well be me! Or you!

-- December 12, 2006 12:28 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl wrote;

You referred to some of your choices as sin....I refer to them as simply as learning choices...that make your soul wiser...I did not have to wait to be judged at the end of my life...I received the experience right then and there...I learned quickly...don't like the experience...simply change your way of making choices...
You refer to your choices as doors to be opened or left close...but you feel you must repent for those choices made...I do not...for I feel the creator sent me here to learn....and making choices that give us experiences that make us wiser is just part of the process...

===end of quote===

Carl, I see what you are saying here and it is a good lesson to learn from our mistakes. We do become wiser when we choose a more correct path with a better outcome, such as a first response of non-violence to provocation. I totally agree that this is how it is on the earthly plain. However, the concept of sin I was seeking to present is one which says that on the spiritual plane we are responsible to God for our actions and experiences, not just ourselves. The concept presented in the Bible is that when we make wrong choices we are responsible to God for them in a judicial sense - as a criminal is responsible for their criminal behavior to the Law. In that sense, we have caused injury to a party (God) even when we have done nothing that physically effects or harms any other person. Suicide, for instance, is a sin against God because the person is making a choice to destroy the life God gave (their own). It is self-murder, (that is what the word means, sui - self and cide - murder) but the important thing to note is that it is murder - the choice to kill a human being, which is a sin against God (who gave that person life).

To say that a person who attempts murder of themselves or others is just "sick" and needs to make better choices is to overlook the fact that they have offended the giver of life, God. It denies any responsibility to God for one's actions. And the Bible clearly states that God does indeed judge men's actions and punishes those who fall short of the standard God has set up ("Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder" from the Ten Commandments - not suggestions - being the standard in this case.) Now if God has no way to enforce his "Thou Shalt Not's" we have no worries.. but if He does, we have a very BIG worry.. one we should not ignore.

You say that you don't feel you have to wait to be judged and on the earthly plain, I agree.. you can take control of your life and make new and better choices now (that was the point you were making and I agree with it)... but, from this other perspective - the eternal perspective - the point I was making is that God is the One to whom we all must ultimately answer, whether we like it or not. For example, - in a country, ignorance of the law is no excuse concerning that country's judicial system - in the same way, on God's good green earth, ignorance of God's laws and man's ultimate responsibility to God for his actions is without excuse. All men, regardless of whether they profess faith in God or not are responsible to Him for their actions, and they will indeed have to give account to Him. It is a reality which cannot be changed, only denied. It is ultimate reality.

Rom 1:19-20 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Eze 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul that sins, it shall die.

Heb 9:27 ... it is appointed to men to die once, but after this the judgment

It is this ultimate reality I was addressing when I spoke of the doors. As I looked at the doors, I recognised that I had made choices that had been wrong and sinful. It wasn't simply changing the way I made choices and doing better concerning future doors.. . But it was asking for forgiveness for incorrectly opening those doors, knowing now - after the fact - that they were wrong choices to make. The doors all looked the same, not one was labelled "poison" or "stupid choice you will regret later" or "great choice, this will add to your joy in this life". They were all the exact same looking, and the choices I made to open them or not was my own. In some ways, we all make choices we don't see at the time will be hurtful or wrong. Maybe you can see that a choice I am about to make is wrong, and you may warn me of it. If I heed it, I don't end up going through a lot of pain, but the choice to listen or not is my own.

It was a way of seeing responsibility. Once I understood my place of responsibility before God for opening the doors (I looked back and saw opened doors and knew I had opened them, not anyone else), it suddenly dawned on me that I was RESPONSIBLE for the wrong doors I opened. I had SINNED.. and it was an "uh-oh!" moment.. like Mom walking into the kitchen when you have your hand in the cookie jar, only far more serious.. ok, like Dad walking into the police station having been called to come and pick you up.. that kind of sinking sensation in the pit of your stomach which says.. "uh-oh" because I was in for it. It required an "I am SO SORRY".. because the One to whom I was responsible was THERE as I looked down that corridor, standing right there, and you just cannot stand in the Presence of a Holy God with sins and not feel incredibly sinful and.. wrong. I could no longer deny my sins, or how God looked at them.

I understood, in a way God made real to my heart, that I had sinned against God by my choices, and my heart cried out to be reconciled with Him and have His forgiveness for my sins. That is what Christianity is.. not only the earthly plane of making it better by my own choices after the sinning, but facing the music like a kid in the police station when he leaves the station with Dad - seeking God's forgiveness and to get the relationship right with Him. The restitution and change of behavior can happen after that, but the important thing when you are leaving the police station in your Father's custody is that once you get in the car where everyone else won't hear what you are going to say to one another, you are going to get the relationship right. THAT is repentance and what I felt I had to do in order to get reconciled to God and be worthy of going to heaven and being with Him forever. I couldn't let that oppressive guilt, MY guilt, stay between us - but I had to pray and ask forgiveness for my wrongdoing.

Once I got in the car and we shut the doors, the first words out of my mouth were, "Oh, God.. I am so sorry! I am so sorry I have sinned." with a heartfelt cry of repentance from a truly sorry heart. I was sorry I had sinned against Him I and was begging His forgiveness and reconciliation. That is where He brought my heart to, and where I feel a heart must go before it can hope to make the claim that God forgave them by the substitutionary atonement of Christ and His blood on the cross. I hope it makes some sense to you what I am saying. Again, I agree with trying after the fact to do better.. you cannot undo the wrong deeds you have done and you should learn from them the lessons they teach us and seek to right the wrong if you can - but this is getting it right with the One to whom you are ultimately responsible for your behavior as a first priority, even before changing your behavior or attempting restitution. It is saying sorry and apologising to the One whom you offended and are responsible to. It is a heartfelt acknowledgement that, on the spiritual plane, all sin is an offense against God first, not man.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 2:41 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Bush Iraq update may be after New Year
By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent Dec 12, 2006

WASHINGTON - President Bush, about to wrap up an intense effort to arrive at a new course for Iraq, now is likely to lay out his plan to the nation early next year instead of before Christmas, a senior White House official said Tuesday.

The possible new timing is not a reflection of a last-minute shift by the White House, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision was not final. Instead, the official said the president knows the direction he is likely to take his Iraq strategy and has directed his team to address the many the practical ramifications, such as for military tactics and regional diplomacy.

That work is complicated and not finished, the official said. He dismissed any (sniping media) suggestions that this reflects trouble arriving at decisions, or making them work.

The president, however, has not changed his public tone about the stakes involved in the war, the importance of victory or his definition of success — He said his goal was to succeed in Iraq. "And success is a country that governs, defends itself, that is a free society, that serves as an ally in this war on terror."

Bush said Iraq was a key part of his strategy for "defeating the extremists who want to establish safe haven in the Middle East, extremists who would use their safe haven from which to attack the United States."

The president said his aim was to coordinate advice from his diplomatic and military advisers "so that when I do speak to the American people, they will know that I've listened to all aspects of government."

The administration has rejected calls for U.S. troop withdrawals until Iraq can govern and defend itself.

In an apparent reference to Syria and Iran, Bush said Iraq's neighbors have a responsibility "to help this young Iraqi democracy survive." The bipartisan commission, headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Rep. Lee Hamilton, D-Ind., urged that the United States engage Syria and Iran but Bush has appeared cool to that idea.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

I added the bracketed comments in the sentence above, for clarity. :)
(snip·ing - to attack a person or a person's work with petulant or snide criticism, esp. anonymously or from a safe distance.)

This looks like next year before the political situation is resolved concerning Maliki.
It is, of course, best to let that take its course before addressing moving forward in a speech.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 3:06 PM ∞

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willie wrote:

Oh my!!!!! I'm really witnessing spiritual growth from Carl, Carole, and Sara. You all are unaware how many hearts you are touching and changing now around the world.

-- December 12, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Turtle;

You know those WMD Saddam didnt have?
If this checks out as true..
do you think the MSM might possibly admit the US was justified in going in now?
Maybe the MSM might end up with egg on their faces and exposed for liars?

WMD attacks may be beginning in Iraq:

IRAQ: 'NEW EXPLOSIVES USED' IN DEADLY BAGHDAD BLAST

Baghdad, 12 Dec. (AKI) - The suicide truckbomb attack that killed at least 70 people and injured over 230 early on Tuesday in the capital, Baghdad, was carried out with explosives that are not known to have been used in previous blasts, an unnamed expert from the Iraqi interior ministry told Adnkronos International (AKI). "According to our impressions, today's devices were packed with not less than 150 kilogrammes of a new kind of explosive made from a mixture of TNT and other chemical substances intended to cause as many deaths as possible," the expert said. Many of those killed were poor Shiite labourers looking for work.

"These chemical substances may come from chemical weapons arsenals dating from the Saddam era, developed in secret laboratories. Explosives experts from the ministry are collaborating with international experts to try and and find out more," the expert continued.

A dangerous new tactic aimed at causing the maximum number of deaths in attacks in Iraq was already apparent in the 23 November multiple suicide bomb and mortar attacks on the sprawling Shiite heartland of Sadr City, the expert noted. These killed more than 200 people and inured some 400.

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.368217886&par=0

-- December 12, 2006 4:18 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie - Any heart touched or changed would have been listening to that still quiet voice of God speaking to them... for who are we? I am glad He touched yours. :)

I am grieved the poor people of Iraq may be enduring another set of criminal chemical attacks at the hands of Saddam's henchmen.. he surely inspires them as an example of what to do to the people of Iraq... he is their leader, example and guide, even now. As we would ask, "What would Jesus do?" so they use Saddam's example as to what to do. For what consequences have there been for Saddam's evil ways? Will there be any justice done for the past atrocities? If not, they will see it as not likely that they would ever be brought to justice for their attacks and atrocities in this life, too. Such encouragement they receive daily as the authorities allow Saddam Hussein to live on - an example that crime does pay, and no harm comes to those who are wickedly evil against others. Justice is delayed to the point of irrelevancy, if not abandoned. Saddam is indeed an inspiration - for the daily attacks we see and, in a particular way, as the inspiration for today's (likely) WMD attack.. another vivid reminder of Saddam's rule and inspiration for his remaining henchmen who act, if not under orders from Saddam Hussein, at least under his spirit and example.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 5:34 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Moving right along......hope they can get it done by years end!!! At least they don't get a long Christmas break like our Congress.
=========================================================================================================
The Oil investment law, completed its final stages
The Iraqi Oil investment law, completed its final stages
12/12/2006
Source: Translated by IRAQdirectory.com

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said that his government had completed the preparation of a law encourages foreign investment in the oil and gas industry in the country and will submit it to Parliament for ratification. But members of the Committee, which is working to prepare the law, were more cautious; they pointed out that they have done most of the work but they need another week or ten days to complete.

There are foreign investments with billions of dollars to exploit the third largest oil reserves in the world, pending the adoption of an appropriate legal framework.

-- December 12, 2006 5:40 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

It appears to be a quite day on the board. I guess the rumor of a possible RV on Dec 12 or 13 is just that a rumor with no apparent grounding in facts. Such are all rumors.

Since it will be next year before hearing from the President on a way forward in Iraq. At this point, I do not sense a major policy shift. I would like to see some additional economic pressure placed upon the insurgents through job creation for example.

I contend it is still important to fix Iraq's infastructure (water, electricity, and gasoline)before the insurgents are fully subdued.

Though I do not sense a major policy shift I am hopeful the President is still fully commmitted to Iraq.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 12, 2006 5:53 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Quote:

"Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday’s events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein."
http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126496

Why were they still talking about Saddam if he is irrelevant to the dialog about Iraq today? Sidelined, irrelevant?

Quote:
Both Iran and Syria are seen as key players in Iraq. Syria is widely believed to have done little to stop foreign fighters and al-Qaida in Iraq recruits from crossing its border to join Sunni insurgents in Iraq. It also has provided refuge for many top members of Saddam Hussein's former leadership and political corps, which is thought to have organized arms and funding for the insurgents. The Sunni insurgency, since it sprang to life in late summer 2003, has been responsible for most of the U.S. deaths in Iraq.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126465

FACT - Iraq's attackers are former Saddam leadership.

Quote:

o Al-Jazeera TV compared the US to Saddam, saying that the
Americans killed some 600,000 Iraqi civilians, so who are they to judge
Saddam when he only killed 5 million of his own people, many of who were
traitors.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126205

FACT - here the terrorist news network Al-Jazeera admits he killed 5 MILLION of his own people. What the insurgents do daily is only drawn from the inspiration of their leader..

Quote:

o Jordan and Palestine are seeing public demonstrations against
the verdict, where the demonstrators claim that Saddam helped them
against the Israelis and was a good man. One man even said "he helped
us and who cares what he did to the Iraqis - they are his people and he
can do whatever he wants to them."

o Similar demonstrations have been occurring in Tikrit (Saddam's
hometown) and other Sunni areas that are home to Saddam loyalists and
those who were the elite under the former regime.

o Bushra (?) the Lebanese lawyer for Saddam stated that the
Iraqis and Americans are making a big mistake, because "the Resistance"
will attack them everywhere inside and outside Iraq.

(from the same url, above)

====

Tell me he isn't their inspiration.

As for attacks increasing in the case of his rightful execution, if he were dead it would be an encouragment that Justice will be done to all who indiscriminately kill innocents.. and would deter terrorism in the long run. Delaying his execution is foolhardy and only strengthens those who think their cause is being "blessed" - attributing his survival to a divine hand which will help them in their murderous quest. If Saddam remains unharmed when the whole world knows he gassed the Kurds, why should they expect worse treatment for attacking civilians by the hundreds with WMD? Obviously, such acts are "blessed" and protected from above, they reason.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 6:09 PM ∞

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willie wrote:

Sara-
You ask what would Jesus do concerning this war. I don't know what He would do, but I know what I would do. All Baghdad citizens would be notified of a final and deciding war. Either get out or face annihilation. Anything and everything would be destroyed. Then the city would be rebuilt. Enough of having your our military destroyed by unsuspecting civilians, snipers and hidden IEDs. This war is being run by politicians and it has to be stopped. Either that or spread the rumour within the Iraqi public that the US military is now using munitions dipped in pig blood. Sounds harsh but so is war. There is NO room for defeat.

-- December 12, 2006 6:48 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Willie;

I recognise we have two sets of enemies fighting against us in Iraq. Saddam loyalists supplied by the Baathist Sunnis headquartered in Syria (which should be demoralized by Saddam's execution if the authorities would only carry out the sentence), and the Shiite Militias (such as Sadr) supplied by Iran. I think both threats need to be thoughtfully dealt with but had not thought of munitions dipped in pig blood. I think that if they can use chemical weapons, pig blood should be allowed as a harsh reprisal. But your suggestion is not likely to be adopted for the same reason Saddam is still alive - political correctness and appeasement of the enemy.

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 7:39 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Here is a bit of venting I thought you should hear:

Troops in Iraq Express Frustration with the Media to FNC's Sean Hannity
Posted by Justin McCarthy on December 12, 2006 - 17:00.

The bravest and most patriotic of Americans, those who see first hand what goes on in Iraq, can see the liberal bias in the media. On Monday’s Hannity and Colmes, co-host Sean Hannity recounted from his recent trip to Iraq that many in uniform there feel the media paints a grimmer picture than the reality on the ground. Hannity first offered this comment when talking with Oliver North reporting from Ramadi, Iraq.

Sean Hannity: "You know Colonel, one of the things without fail, wherever the secretary went, he was greeted like a rock star. I mean, the troops love him. And the one theme that kept coming back to me, and they watched TV regularly, they’ve had Fox News on almost everywhere I went, is that the media was not portraying this accurately, and they did mentioned, quite often, the disdain and the disgust at the portrayal of, of their efforts and the politics that’s going on behind here in America. I assume that, this now your eighth trip to Iraq, you’re hearing a lot of the same thing."

Later in the show, Hannity played his taped discussions with U.S. troops in Mosul. There, one soldier spoke up on the media portrayal of the situation in Iraq:

U.S. Soldier: "The bottom line is that from we hear what is being said in the media back home, but we’re here and we see a totally different side of what’s happening."

Hannity: "Explain that. What’s the difference between what people hear at home and what’s happening here?"

U.S. Soldier: "A good example: This past Tuesday we went out to the city to deliver school supplies to children."

Hannity: "And we’re in Mosul just so people know.

U.S. Soldier: "And the Iraqi Army actually provided our security for us. We didn’t have any problems. The locals, they were, you know, they were a little bit shy and nervous but, you know, absolutely -"

Hannity: "So that sort of transition is happening successfully."

Soldier: "Oh yeah, oh yeah."

===

Comments:

Edhenry Says:
December 12, 2006 - 18:04

This is the striking difference, and probably the critical difference, between Iraq and Vietnam. The soldiers in this war believe in the task, their leaders, and they, almost unanimously, believe they have won the war and are making progress on establishing a country.

Vietnam produced thousands of soldiers that expressly stated they had no conviction of the task & no confidence in their leaders. The draft created some of this discord, but if Iraq was not progressing, there would be enough ex-GIs for the MSM to set aside "CCCP/I love Hugo" Sheehan and "let's quit so I can finally get noticed (as a gasbag) - ABSCAM co-conspirator" Murtha.

The MSM can't get the evidence. As long as the troops belive in the task, I believe in the task. If enough of them feel it is lost, hopeless or misguided, then I will change my mind. I support the troops and their task.

awffp1890 Says:
December 12, 2006 - 18:02

My son is currently serving his second tour in Iraq. He has also done 2 tours in Afghanistan. He tells me that the Iraqi people love us and are very appreciative of what is taking place. Him and his crew have a very large distrust of the media and have nothing good to say about the way the media portrays soldiers, and the events taking place. I wonder if Couric, Maher, et. al have ever considered the impact their negative comments have on those serving?

Blonde Says:
December 12, 2006 - 18:15

I saw this segment last night....the above transcript doesn't even begin cover it.

Hannity apparently was just talking to the guys, and it was kind of a spontaneous thing that ended up being taped. To a man, each soldier said "we can win this, if they'll let is"...."there's no way we can lose it, but the politicians can lose it for us". There was a 50 year old seargent, and a young officer, who were really, really irate at F'ing Kerry's idiot remarks about the education level of our troops. (I hope the SOB has the guts to run again, and this clip gets played in his face, ad nauseum).

The troops were also really angry about the innacurate media coverage and the politics being played with their lives.

We need to demand the media sit up and take notice. Quit pontificating from the safety of the Washington bureau, and listen to the men and women on the ground who are WINNING.

There should be a follow on tonight on H&C, and for sure the second part of the Rumsfeld interview, which was also fascinating.

RunningBeer Says:
December 12, 2006 - 18:20

I watched this last night and another comment was mentioned a couple times by the troops. They said the constant rant by the media and certain members of congress of how we cannot win was very demoralizing. As if they were being told they weren't good enough to beat this enemy. Like no one has any faith in their abilities. It was rather touching.

I only wish one other question was asked... "do you want to quit and go home." I'm sure the resounding answer would've been "HELL NO WE WON'T GO!" Would have like to see the troops throw that at the media, congress and the liberal propagandists.

mattm Says:
December 12, 2006 - 18:22

The most frustrating thing is that the media's motivation against the WOT, especially the Iraq theatre, was never the rightness or lack thereof of the cause, or their 'concern' for innocent civilians or the lives of soldiers. Their sole motivation was political - damage Bush and the Republican Party. That's it.

If we hadn't invaded Iraq and had only spent our time chasing Bin Laden around, the media would have mocked Bush and the GOP for going after a hit-man while leaving "the Don" safe in his Baghdad compound.

These people are NOT journalists, they are propagandists. Sadly, so many people buy their lies, which could result in the demise of western civilization.

http://newsbusters.org/node/9620
The last comment reminded me of Tim Bitts..

Sara.

-- December 12, 2006 7:55 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Willie!
I believe Sara and Carole have always expressed their beliefs very well and with conviction...just maybe and I say just maybe you are seeing the words in a different light than before...
As for me...Sara does her best to keep me on the straight and narrow,according to her view point...but the path I take is not the path of Sara or Carole...but that does not mean theirs is any less important...nor by the way yours either...

-- December 12, 2006 7:55 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

do you need a reciept to sell your dinar when it hits the FOREX? you know when you want to sell them back in the states? I just bought some and I found this website cause I was trying to research the dinar. What does anyone think about a revalue anytime soon? Any input would be helpful... I have about 3 million and I might buy more. What is a good amout to have??? Share the knowledge. Just another man on the bandwagon looking for some education on the subject!

Sgt. Lambeth
USMC Camp Arifjan

-- December 12, 2006 10:50 PM ∞

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Valerio wrote:

Sgt. Lambeth,
The Iraqi dinar is a secure currency note. It needs no receipt to make it valid, its valid on its own.
As for an RV soon, many of us have been riding on this chariot for along time, and chariots offer a rough ride, and so it has been. My perspective is that until recently, progress was slow and each step long awaited for. Speculation and rumors were rampet as the violence roared on daily. Today we see the steps being taken one after another, and the most impacting legislation comming to the final stages. We are also seeing the redeployment our resolve in the face of a political power change. Before, those at the reins of our chariot were pulling back on them keeping the pace slow, and we were feeling every bump let me tell you, and those not hanging on tight enough fell off, but now they have loosened the reins so we are picking up speed. The bumps are smoothing off a bit, so the ride is getting easier. We still gotta hold on tight because you never know when you might loose a wheel, or come upon an obstruction. The ememy also sees it, so he too has picked up the pace, but we have righteousness on our side. I believe we will continue to see small increases in the dinar, and I don't believe there will be an instant RV. But look out when we come around that final bend with finish line in sight. We are going to start cracking those arabian thoughobreds, and just when you think we can't go any faster.... wow...we have transformed, we have lifted off, we are now in a Jet aircraft heading non-stop to a new place at the speed of sound. When we land all those not in for the ride will marvel.
How much is enough? As much as you can carry, without borrowing, begging or stealing.

-- December 13, 2006 1:19 AM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Sara: Just wait until they tell you what was in that blast. This is NOT good stuff. As in, it actually makes me a touch nervous. I'll let the news finish this story since I am confident it will be completed now that it has hit the air.

-- December 13, 2006 1:52 AM ∞

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Tim Bitts wrote:

Interesting tid-bit: I was doing random searches on the internet, looking up some stuff on Nazis. I went to www.aryan-nation.org/ the main website for American Nazi racists, who worship Hitler, the man who started a war that cost 50 million lives. You remember the Nazis? The volk who want to kill and oppress blacks, and who hate Jews? What is on the title page? Allah Akbar! Which, I believe is Arabic for God is Great! Which is also the last thing terrorists yell before they kill an infidel. Interesting... Click on the main page, go to the bottom, click on continue, and on the next page, the S in Islam is spelt with a swastika, with a link to a radical Muslim site. Hmmmmm....It seems the Nazi pigs are getting together with fellow psychotic pigs, the Islamic jihadist pigs. (My apologies to pigs, for the unflattering comparison) I guess they both share hatred of one particular ethnic group, that is, Jewish people. Both spout pure hate-filled nonsense about Jews. Both groups are dangerous and violent, and must be stopped, by words and by bullets. Just another reason to stay in Iraq, and finish the job.

-- December 13, 2006 3:56 AM ∞

---

Tim Bitts wrote:

Interesting tid-bit: I was doing random searches on the internet, looking up some stuff on Nazis. I went to www.aryan-nation.org/ the main website for American Nazi racists, who worship Hitler, the man who started a war that cost 50 million lives. You remember the Nazis? The volk who want to kill and oppress blacks, and who hate Jews? What is on the title page? Allah Akbar! Which, I believe is Arabic for God is Great! Which is also the last thing terrorists yell before they kill an infidel. Interesting... Click on the main page, go to the bottom, click on continue, and on the next page, the S in Islam is spelt with a swastika, with a link to a radical Muslim site. Hmmmmm....It seems the Nazi pigs are getting together with fellow psychotic pigs, the Islamic jihadist pigs. (My apologies to pigs, for the unflattering comparison) I guess they both share hatred of one particular ethnic group, that is, Jewish people. Both spout pure hate-filled nonsense about Jews. Both groups are dangerous and violent, and must be stopped, by words and by bullets. Just another reason to stay in Iraq, and finish the job.

-- December 13, 2006 3:56 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Duuuuh!! How come it takes our politicians so long to realize that jobs are a good thing.....might be because a lot of them don't work for a living! In any case, this is a step forward.

=====================================================================================
Report: U.S. aims to create jobs in Iraq to stem violence


www.chinaview.cn 2006-12-13 01:45:26

WASHINGTON, Dec. 12 (Xinhua) -- As Iraq descends further into violence and disarray, the Pentagon is turning to a weapon some believe should have been used years ago - jobs, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.

A small Pentagon task force have gone to the most dangerous areas of Iraq over the past six months to bring life to nearly 200state-owned factories abandoned by the Coalition Provisional Authority after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, and their goal is to employ tens of thousands of Iraqis in coming months, part of a plan to reduce soaring unemployment and lessen the violence that has crippled progress.

The report quoted defense officials and military commanders as saying that unemployment, at 70 percent in some areas, is leading Iraqi men to take cash from insurgents to place bombs on roads or take shots at U.S. troops.

Other Iraqis are joining sectarian attacks because their quality of life has slipped dramatically, officials said.

Tackling unemployment could do far more good than adding U.S. combat troops or more aggressively pursuing an elusive enemy, Army Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, the top U.S. field commander in Iraq, told the newspaper.

He said the project to open the factories and stimulate local economies is long overdue and was born "of desperation."

Chiarelli said a key hindrance to establishing stability in Iraq was the failure to get the economy going. "A relatively small decrease in unemployment would have a very serious effect on the level of sectarian killing going on," he said.

Unemployment was daunting because many working Iraqis supported up to 13 family members, meaning unemployment had exponential effects on the country, Chiarelli said.

Pentagon officials said the vast majority of former Iraqi factory workers were still unemployed and were bringing in no pay. A small portion of the workforce received government stipends, but the pay system was badly flawed and provided about 20 percent of what the workers would make if fully employed.

The Pentagon task force, set up by Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England in June, have visited 26 factories in Iraq and have identified 10 factories they think could be open and employing more than 11,000 Iraqis within the next month, the Post reported.

Editor: Mu Xuequan

-- December 13, 2006 10:02 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

After reflecting upon our President's decision not to speak to the nation until next year concerning a way forward in Iraq and the talk to remove Malaki both brought to my mind a couple of possible answers as to why.

I believe the President chose to delay his speech to give the military one more big push in Iraq. Evidence of this may be seen in the deployment of 40,000 more troops.

Malaki has his final chance to cooperate with the U.S. and help stem the continued violence. This is Malaki's last chance to fail. If he fails, I think we see a new PM in January.

What do you think? Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 13, 2006 10:27 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Rob N.

I think the decision to replace Maliki has already been made and the groups getting their majority vote together will act in the near future. The 275 member parliament will cast their vote as part of a “lack of confidence” movement within the Government.

After a new PM takes over we will see a quick approval of the HCL and more positive steps related to the Dinar. I believe the new PM will go into kill mode on Al-Sadr and his militia.

President Bush has indicated he will announce the new plan for Iraq in early Jan. I’ll betcha a dollar to a doughnut that it will be prior to Jan. 7 when the Democrats take over the majority.

-- December 13, 2006 11:12 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Okie:

Do you think we are going to see one more big push by the military before the President's speech?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 13, 2006 11:51 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Turtle - I had hoped it was a false report. It has me praying fervently for you all over there, let me tell you.

Rob N - I agree with Okie that the decision to replace Maliki appears to have already been made. The concern with Jafaari and now with Maliki is that each of them were unwilling to implement the American plan and strategy which will cause victory for the people of Iraq. Again, I believe it is ultimately due to spiritual opposition, but the point is that whatever has been used to accomplish this aim (Iran/Sadr - see below), the past two PMs haven't done the economic leg of this as was planned. And.. it WAS PLANNED. Proof given from an unfriendly (anti-capitalist) source, but accurate, here:

Posted on August 22, 2005,
Over a year ago, orders were put in place by L. Paul Bremer III, then the U.S. administrator of Iraq, that were designed to "transition [Iraq] from a ... centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat. Those orders were also incorporated into the transitional administrative law -- Iraq's interim constitution -- and the economic restructuring they mandate is well underway.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/24307/

It is this ""transition [Iraq] from a ... centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat" which I am still looking for and hoping to see. It was planned a year ago from August 2005, that means 2004.. Jaafari and now Maliki have not delivered on it.

My concern is that IF they put a new person/Iraqi in charge of the government.. ahem.. how do we know he won't also decide not to do this? From my perspective, I am concerned the spiritual forces in play may have sway over the next candidate put into the PM spot, too. Is there a failsafe way to make sure the US has the power to do the economic reforms they wish to do without having to beg the PM of Iraq to do so? It is, in my opinion, the winning strategy to see Iraq move forward - giving hope, jobs and money they so desperately need. Men can become corrupted, and even if the person who will take over from Maliki has good intentions, with coersion (threats) and incentives (bribes), that could change. I believe that whomever is doing the negotiations should make very sure that the US has the power to transition Iraq to a market economy with or WITHOUT the head of the new "salvation" government. I think we have one more shot at it before the cards fold and there cannot be any room for mistakes this time. Trusting to the good intentions of the Iraqis so far has not borne much fruit - to continue to do so when those behind them (physically or spiritually) are uncompromisingly opposed to us could be fatal to the war effort.

Sgt. Lambeth - thanks for posting, and welcome to the Dinar train.! :) I see you bought some Dinar.. which is the equivalent to a ticket on the Dinar train - and you have been given some advice about the rough ride we have been having as we learn more about Iraq and all that concerns it - which of course bears on our investment. You ask if we need a receipt to sell Dinar.. it would be best if you had one, but it may not be absolutely necessary. When you go to sell them, you have to give them over to the bank (who trades them on the forex back into USD). They will take them and your complete ID and then run a check on you to make sure you are not a terrorist seeking to money launder. With a receipt, the check may go quicker.. I don't know how long the check will take, but once you pass, you get your money in USD. We have discussed when to sell them here.. once it hits the market, you can sell it freely as much or as little as you wish. Some will sell all, others will sell some and hold some.. hoping for the value to increase.

As for a soon RV, it is likely in my opinion, if the US can get into the PM spot someone who is serious about taking on the economic challenges and dealing with the monetary issues without doublespeak. We have argued on this site that both of the PMs we have seen so far have been in the back pocket of Iran. Maliki has Sadr (who holds 30 seats in the Iraqi parliament) to thank for becoming PM and he has to cultivate his support to remain in power. Sadr is the head of a militia with ties to Iran and supplied by Iran.. not good. This means that since it is not in Iran's best interests for Iraq to succeed, Iran merely tells Maliki (and they told Jaafari, too) to not RV the currency and so keep the Iraqis impoverished and desperate - ripe to recruit into radical militias. Iran may do this by threats, bribes, using loyalties to commonly shared religious principles, or by political pressure through Sadr's 30 seats in parliament, but however they do it, they have hobbled the US plan to "transition [Iraq] from a ... centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat."

I hope that the Iraqis have not pulled the wool over the eyes of the US with this new plan to remove Maliki (who isn't doing the job) and put in someone else with the same loyalties. If the new person is cut from the same cloth, the economic change will languish under him, too. I am hoping the US learned its lesson and will put in place written failsafes within the paperwork for the new government which would allow them to implement this strategy with or without the support of the next PM. Enough is enough.. if they say they will deal with the economic issues (such as the need for the RV), they should have no problems putting that in writing BEFORE they assume power, right? Clearly it is in our best interests that they do so, and also for the citizens of Iraq. Agreeing on this being necessary for the economic leg to move forward, there should be written guarantees in place before the new person assumes power - guarantees which can be implemented even should the PM reneg on his commitment after assuming power, IMHO.

Sara.

-- December 13, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Saudis may back Iraq Sunnis if U.S. exits
Dec 13 2006

NEW YORK - Saudi Arabia has warned Washington it might provide financial aid to Iraqi Sunnis in any fighting against Shiites if the U.S. pulls its troops out of Iraq, The New York Times reported Wednesday.

The AP reported last week that private citizens in Saudi Arabia are funneling money to Sunni insurgents in Iraq, often through either charitable donations or carried by trucks carrying pilgrims and their luggage between the two countries.

Iran — a majority Shiite country — is believed to be providing military and financial support to Shiite elements.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_warning

At least this shows the REAL big picture.. it is a war between the Sunnis on one side (with Syria and Saudi Arabia private citizens supporting them - and the government of SA saying it may come into the fray, too) and the Shiites (with Iran supporting them) on the other.

It is not a Civil War between IRAQIS.. but a proxy war between the Sunnis in the region and Iran.

The US may have to take care of Iran to stop the bloodshed in Iraq, because it isn't the Iraqis doing a Civil War between themselves, but INTERFERENCE with Iraq by these outside forces moving into and working within Iraq for their own regional aims. Basically, it is a war between Iran and the Sunnis, using Iraq as the battleground. The Sunnis (article yesterday, url below) are saying they will pursue nuclear weapons to counter the Iranian nuclear threat, as well. Again, the war is between these Sunni nations and Iran.. not internal Iraqi civil war at all.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/09/iraqi_dinar_dis_5.html#126918

Obviously, we should NOT go the negotiating table with terrorists (Iran/Syria).. this is a recipe for disaster (I intend to elaborate on this in another post).

Sara.

-- December 13, 2006 1:09 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

If you read between the lines, it sounds like "bye Bye" to maliki and his buddy Al-Sadr......

===============================================
Bush decides direction of Iraq policy

By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
WASHINGTON –

On Wednesday, Bush placed calls to Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, and Massoud Barzani, president of the Kurdish region.
Bush's discussions across Iraq's ethnic and religious lines come as major partners in the country's governing coalition are in behind-the-scenes talks to form a new parliamentary bloc and sideline supporters of the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, a vehement opponent of the U.S. military presence and the main patron of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. There is discontent in Iraq and within the Bush administration over al-Maliki's failure to rein in Shiite militias and quell raging violence.
The White House has tried to maintain distance from the political storm brewing inside Iraq. That made it notable that White House press secretary Tony Snow on Wednesday offered a description of both Talabani and Barzani that they "fit into that moderate bloc" that has been discussed in recent days. He said they both "pledged their cooperation — not merely in building broader support for the government but also taking action against those who want to destabilize through acts of terror."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061213/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_30

-- December 13, 2006 1:11 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sgt. Lambeth.....

Welcome to the forum! I see Sara has already answered your question about cashing in your Dinars.

Later, IRS will probably ask for a receipt to determine if your investment is "short term= less than a year" or "long term" which will determine how much tax you owe on your gain.

I don't have a receipt for the Dinar I bought in Iraq because the dealers were afraid to put their name on a piece of paper that might get them killed. The only thing I can do is show them stamps in my passport and papers from my company to prove I was in Iraq and able to purchase Dinar. You should be able to do the same thing with your deployment orders.

Now..just repeat after me....COM'ON DINAR!!

-- December 13, 2006 1:42 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Rob N.

I heard our Military was already planning to regain control of Baghdad and get rid of the Militias. This would require shifting a lot of troops and hardware around and it will take awhile for the logistics to be implemented.

We'll have to depend on Turtle and Panhandler to holler real loud when things start to happen.....

-- December 13, 2006 1:53 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

This article is really, REALLY a MUST READ.
It shows we have already won in Iraq..
Quote:

"Likewise, the Commission failed to realize that we have already won the war in Iraq. We vanquished the army of Saddam Hussein, sent the Butcher of Baghdad to the gallows and we are now occupying Iraq. We have begun our program of reconstruction of Iraq, established a democratic government, and put in place the economic infrastructure required for a new, free enterprise society of Iraq.

"What we have not won yet is the complete democratization of Iraq... But we are on the high road towards that end. A little more push and we are there..."

==end of quote===

And it also states, "Islamofascism gravely threatens our physical and spiritual existence, our civilized world, and our way of life."

We have everything at stake, and they are playing politics..

Quote: "Our jaws drop as the surprise referral and endorsement of the Baker-Hamilton Commission confer legitimacy to the cause of terror to annihilate us, and to honor the brutality of the enemy at the negotiating table as a matter of foreign policy."

May God preserve us from history repeating itself.

The author, -- has written published, unpublished academic papers; has long years of newspaper experience, writing daily and magazine editorials, essays, feature articles, columns, novelettes, short stories. Academic, other works -- has degrees in literature and jornalism, masters in development economics, and in civil law; journalist, practicing lawyer, Finance Attache, ASEAN specialist, retired diplomat, and former deputy permanent representative to the United Nations.

Sara.

====

Iraq Study Group Recommends Kangaroo Diplomacy -- Motive Is Suspect (Part A - playing politics with the report)
Edwin A. Sumcad
December 11, 2006

The commission study was bipartisan if not multi-partisan to ensure that the report will not come out bias or leaning towards the agenda of any political party in interest. With this composition of the study group, the report is supposed to be above board. But are the findings and recommendations, like Cesar’s wife, above suspicion?

It is in bipartisanship or supposedly multilateral study and recommendations where the problem lies. It provides a good cover for a partisan design that serves a questionable purpose.

The study group was co-chaired by Rep. Lee Hamilton, Democrat [D-Ind], and James A. Baker III, former Secretary of State under the presidency of the older Bush. The recently released recommendations on what to do with Iraq saw the trouble in Iraq but did not see our problem in Iraq. Instead, the report was leaning towards the 2008 liberal agenda when it recommended that President George W. Bush should conduct and pursue kangaroo diplomacy with the sponsors of terror in Iraq, notably Al Qaeda, Syria and Iran. It is courting Bush’s failure in Iraq, which is of course good for the Liberal’s 2008 presidential campaign.

It would seem that the real selling idea of diplomacy is to strike a peace accord, to negotiate a compromise and to end the war in Iraq.

For the tired and weary, to end the war is nice to hear, but is it possible? If indeed the purpose is to end the war, in whose favor would that be? As if the world has not seen or heard of the everlasting Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Peace negotiations just go round and round in the roller coaster of time, like a puppy chasing the red ribbon in its tail. UN peace initiative between the outbreak of hostilities and ceasefires has always a beginning meant to end bloodshed so that the slaughter in both sides can start all over again.

I have a high respect for Baker’s integrity but uncertain of his courage to go through the narrow corridor of opportunity. Although Baker is a reputable and reliable negotiator-diplomat, the fact remains that his halcyon days are long gone in his time in the past, power influence-wise. I doubt very much if he is going to project himself as a thorn on the side of the current powerful Liberal agenda. Today Liberals are in control of Congress. In this Iraq war entanglement, they are now calling the shots. We already knew that the Liberal leadership has projected itself to be that rabidly partisan … the mindset of the new Democrat headship is primarily dedicated to unseat the Republicans in the 2008 presidential election.

A Democrat presidential candidate is most likely to occupy the Oval Office once Bush is embarrassed by failures in Iraq. One such big failure is when Bush is forced to withdraw U.S. troops in Iraq and repeat our defeat in Vietnam where this most powerful nation on the planet lost the war to the Vietcong by default.

The historical pattern in this regard has been established in time and too apposite to ignore. History always repeats itself. Like our ignominious thrashing in Vietnam, the reigning Democrats in Congress will create a parallel parliament of the street against the lame duck President, and then respond to popular public clamor by cutting off funding and like what they did to President Lyndon Johnson choke Bush out of Iraq.

This move can easily be accomplished with the help of the enemy’s swearing, cursing and complaints directed against President Bush while in the negotiating table that are legitimatized through media exposure. The Liberal media will have a feeding frenzy on it and our days in Iraq are over.

If the Liberal co-chairman of the Iraq study group was not there to see to it that this is carried out towards that end, in the eyes of ordinary Americans, he must be a Liberal outcast.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=17797

-- December 13, 2006 3:38 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

Okie: Ummmm I been putting it out there, when was the last time you saw fatboy bless the tv screen? I've heard Sadr's aids, but I have not seen him on TV or directly interviewed since Maliki's trip to Jordan. have you? As for troop movements, that's been in motion for months. I told ya things were getting interesting. Now, I really think it comes down to politics. If they bounce Maliki or Maliki falls in line... We will have a war again but, if things go as I expect, we will take control of things in 3 months or less. The by spring prediction is very doable. Bring in 40,000 more toops. 10,000 on the Syrian border, 10,000 on the Iranian border, and 20,000 in Baghdad. Shift some of the existing soldiers to transition teams... This can get very interesting. Frankly, with other recent developments, this has ot happen. Withdrawing and waiting is not an option, in my opinion.

Now, where is Chris with todays Dinar value post?

-- December 13, 2006 3:48 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq Study Group Recommends Kangaroo Diplomacy -- Motive Is Suspect
(Part B - losing a winnable war for political gain, missing history's lessons, ignoring the facts)
Edwin A. Sumcad
December 11, 2006

Is the commission report above suspicion? The American public must understand as to why the kangaroo diplomacy it recommended is a road to perdition. It ensures Bush’s rout to stay the course in Iraq, and ruin this country’s chance to win a winnable war in Iraq.

When the report recommended to President Bush to start opening negotiations with rogue countries sponsoring belligerent forces in Iraq, the Commission ignored our purpose in Iraq, and with it terribly missed the lesson of history. That’s besides conferring specious legitimacy to those terror countries in the eyes of the world, and in the eyes of the world, lowering the standard of the United States’ international reputation as the only country that stands steadfastly in this protracted fight against terror, a country committed not only to survive terror but also to save the world from global terrorism.

It is an unmistakable lesson in history that the civilized world has painfully learned through bloodletting, that it is impossible to win a war by negotiating peace with Islamic terror. We know it for a fact like we do the back of the palm. If it is possible to appease Mohammed’s sword that spreads the faith of Islam that he preached, there would have been no Jihad and Crusade that began thousands of years ago and are continuing up to now in Iraq. “ ‘Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'" [1] Pope Benedict XVI. [American Chronicle, access September 15, 2006.]

Members of the Commission self-blinded themselves of facts before them that are public knowledge. The long-term goal of islamofascist hegemony besides the immediate objective of mass killing with Americans as primary targets is -- once they put up base in Iraq -- “… to overthrow moderate governments in the Middle East, and establish a totalitarian Islamic empire that reaches from Indonesia to Spain.” [Congressional Record, Council on Foreign Relations on the War on Terrorism, FDCH e-Media, December 7, 2005.] [2]

Consequently, the aim of the underground terror policy in Iraq aided by Al Qaeda terrorists, Syrian and Iranian militants in carrying it out literally down to the grave is explicit in Al Qaeda leader Zawahiri’s letter to Zarqawi, viz: “… to expel Americans from Iraq, establish an Islamic authority over as much territory as you can to spread its power in Iraq, [and] extend the jihad wave.” [Refer to Note (2)]

Ignoring these facts on record, is the report of the Commission above board?

One more crucial point to drive home in connection with this dangerous sweep under the carpet: The Commission did not seem to understand that negotiating with the warlords of islamofascist hegemony gains us nothing except opening the door to Islam victory in this war on terror, and that means a possibility that is conjured over our dead body. Without necessarily casting aspersion on the integrity of the members of the study group, the Commission should have known how committed we are to win the war on terror as a matter of survival on our part [we were the party in this war that was first violently attacked]. We could not back out from this gridlocked life and death commitment to stop the inroad of islamofascism that gravely threatens our physical and spiritual existence, our civilized world, and our way of life.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=17797

-- December 13, 2006 3:49 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

And finally, why we cannot allow any negotiations with the terrorist nations of Iran or Syria, as this is calculated for our defeat...

Sara.

===

Iraq Study Group Recommends Kangaroo Diplomacy -- Motive Is Suspect
(Part C - Ignoring the real goal, The necessity of sacrifice or catastrophe, Our position as having won, NO negotiation with terrorists)
Edwin A. Sumcad
December 11, 2006

Equally blinding itself to what could have been the focal point of study is the Commission’s failure to articulate our goal in Iraq. This seems too remote and so strange to the Commission. The President of the United States had announced this to the world in almost all auspicious occasions.

In a nutshell, our long-term goal in Iraq is to establish a beachhead of democracy and freedom in the Middle East, and for our national survival, from there suppress if not defeat entirely global terrorism … a deadly poniard directly pointing at the heart of America.

To achieve this, the struggle is hard and long. As in all wars, we spend a hell of a fortune charged to our individual sweat and blood accounts and that of the next generation, and we have soldiers dying as they fight our war on terror; we hear the crying of the wounded in the battlefield, feel the anguish of those who were left behind; it is more than enough for us to stand witness to the agony of those engaged in a supreme sacrifice of a generation for the price of freedom, peace and security … all for the next generation to cherish as a legacy of this land of the free and the brave, and as Americans loyal to the flag, to be proud of, the rest of their lives.

Without any iota of doubt, I am sure that the Commission surveyed this situation in Iraq. Unfortunately, the study group came out with a myopic view that the bloody mess they saw was the problem it has to address. This is, miles away, not the problem. That being the case, is the report then beyond suspicious scrutiny?

The roadblock towards our goal in Iraq is a phalanx of forces of terror masterminded covertly and overtly participated in by Al Qaeda terrorists, Syria’s and Iran’s trained rural guerillas that had joined Iraq’s urban rebels seeking to overthrow the newly established democratic government.

Since this Iraq war is long, hard and bloody, as all wars are according to Britain’s Prime Minister Winston Churchill, the tragic conclusion was that this war was not winnable. This hypothesis is poorly constructed, and does not benefit from the brain required to form a rational conclusion.

Likewise, the Commission failed to realize that we have already won the war in Iraq. We vanquished the army of Saddam Hussein, sent the Butcher of Baghdad to the gallows and we are now occupying Iraq. We have begun our program of reconstruction of Iraq, established a democratic government, and put in place the economic infrastructure required for a new, free enterprise society of Iraq.

What we have not won yet is the complete democratization of Iraq because of civil strife caused by political divisiveness and centuries-old religious factionalism and cultural rivalry that amalgamated to form a new Iraq. But we are on the high road towards that end. A little more push and we are there, and yet here is the recommendation of the Commission to abort this effort and negotiate, and in effect, discard Iraq to the wolves.

As suggested by the Commission, negotiating with terror that has its own agenda opposite to ours, which is solely dedicated not only to our defeat but also to our demise, was not meant for Americans to win but to lose the war. The disarming sales talks in marketing this impossibility of winning the war under this recommendation are no different than an attempt to put spilled toothpaste back to the tube.

From the philosophical point of view, the diplomatic recommendation is a déjà vu. We are experiencing the bankruptcy of reasoning behind it. The report implies that when the war is concluded in a week or so, or perhaps less than a year, it is a winnable war. Longer than that as this war in Iraq purports to be, the war becomes “unwinnable”.

This nation has fought and won wars that seemed to have extended to eternity, especially when we have to slow count our casualties to make sure that we do not skip any single MIA, including the time needed to prepare, legalize and hold ceremonial rites in awarding congressional medals of honor, and in constructing monuments and resting places for those who have fallen in battle. That the war has ended, the realization sinks in slowly and poignantly because it is hard to believe that those we love who had fallen in battle had departed with heartrending memories that normally have no spiritual closures.

In the mind, a war of such kind does not end in peace -- it lasts through eternity. In WWII, even in the postwar reconstruction of Japan and Europe nations were at war when global institutions, politicians and international economists were at loggerheads as to how rehabilitation should be done. Postwar peace was but an extension of war. That’s because the peace we enjoy following the war if any, is but a continuing war that we engaged ourselves in for as long as we live. It is always an endless war to maintain the peace.

It is therefore my straightforward reckoning that the Commission was in grave error when it recommended that bringing Al Qaeda, Syria and Iran to the negotiating table will end the war or will solve the problem. The fighting that the study group saw in Iraq was not the problem. The strong opposition of dark forces that we engage in combat, which sees to it that we will not succeed in Iraq – which includes Americans themselves here at home who as third party political combatants attack the United States and undermine the will and power of the President of the United States to fight terror – is the problem.

The point is that even if we grant arguendo that what the Commission saw in Iraq was the problem, the solution it recommended would not solve such problem as heretofore discussed. To the enemy that has no vocabulary for peace in the art of diplomatic parley, diplomacy doesn’t work … this I know for a fact in my long years of exposure in the United Nations. Since what the Commission wants President Bush to do guarantees his failure in Iraq and our defeat in Iraq, the recommended diplomatic overture was purely kangaroo diplomacy.

At this point in time, here we are suspiciously astonished and surprisingly distrustful of what this Iraq study group is recommending. Our jaws drop as the surprise referral and endorsement of the Baker-Hamilton Commission confer legitimacy to the cause of terror to annihilate us, and to honor the brutality of the enemy at the negotiating table as a matter of foreign policy.

The curse of history will be on us once diplomacy is given a wrong direction. This is a good example of such wrong direction. Hezbollah and Israeli rockets are still raining on cities killing children and innocent civilians and leveling buildings to the ground. Behind it is a misdirected diplomacy emanating from UN interventions.

The report of the Iraq study group consigns the war in Iraq to the same fate. History repeats itself, and this is a case of eternal damnation that might prove to be inescapable.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=17797

-- December 13, 2006 4:03 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.dinartrade.com

Raising the value of the dinar against the dollar by the Central Bank, welcomed by economist
Many specialized economists in finance and monetary considered raising the rate of the dinar against the dollar sale by the Iraqi Central Bank an important step to control the volume of inflation.

They emphasized the importance of raising the interest rate up to 12% to curb inflation, which would lead, in the short term, to stabilize the price prevailing in the Iraqi market.

A depression and confusion in the stocks of selling and purchasing the dollar in most of the banking stores in Baghdad may accompany this procedure. Thus, it is necessary to follow up this dangerous turn in the Iraqi capital market. In press statements, a number of those concerned emphasized the importance of this remarkable step towards reducing inflation, raising the value of Iraqi dinar and reducing prices of goods and services.

The minister of planning, Ali Ghalib Baban, said that the Central Bank's decision, which came after extensive study, aimed at encouraging capital owners as well as the citizens in general on saving.

On his part, Governor of the Central Bank, Sinan Shabibi said that: "The aim of the Central Bank currently is limited in the fight against inflation, which reached about 76% and reduce its heightening, through the provision of better conditions for economic development, improving the performance of the banking sector and providing stability in it".

Shabibi said that among the reasons of inflation is the increase in cash circulation, which made it necessary to follow a new monetary policy, aimed at improving the dollar's exchange rate towards reducing its price several points in the auction, organized by the Central Bank every day to sell the dollar, to withdraw currency from circulation.

Director General of Researches at the Iraqi Central Bank, Dr. Madhhar Mohamed Salih, said: the Iraqi Central Bank is responsible, according to the law No. 56 of 2004, for dealing with inflation and reduce its levels. This principle forms the main objective adopted by the monetary policy in performing its duties. Accordingly, the Central Bank must set the priorities of its policies; meaning, the monetary policy to fight inflationary activities using the tools available.

He pointed out that monetary policy faces intermediate variables or objectives that show the relationship between the impact of these variables to reduce the general level of prices and the containing inflation. Among these variables are the stabilizing interest rates "the long-termed" and the stabilizing or real exchange rate. It is noted that these variables can not be controlled directly, unless they are targeted by similar variables which are considered as signals or informative means used to influence stability in the cash market. Among these signals is what is known as the interest rate of the Iraqi Central Bank; it is an indicator price which is considered as a compass influencing the behavior of interest rates and determining what the Central Bank lends to banks, and what banks deposit in the Central Bank.

Whatever the sources of inflation were, it is, in the end, considered to be a monetary phenomenon. Accordingly, the priorities of stability are necessary to build and stimulate the economy.

Thus, inflation is the main reason of speeding up money circulation and spending them, leading to less demand for cash and more demand for goods and services. In order to maintain the cohesion of demand and maximize cash levels in order not to turn into strong spending on goods and services, all the Central Bank had to do is to use its tools in raising the interest rate to stimulate the interest rate structure and maintain the coherence of savings and maximize their purchasing power which will help monetary policy to deal with the high levels of liquidity and contain it within the cash or " banking" market, without becoming a cash bloc drifted towards commodity and services. In light of what have previously been mentioned, several questions arise: Can the Central Bank procedure curb inflation and control the volume of cash? What is the use of raising the level of interest against the high prices?

Economists stressed the importance that the Central Bank will continue this approach to curb inflation, which now threatens the stability of the entire situation in Iraq, including security, social and economic situations.

The observers speculate that the rise in the value of the Iraqi dinar against the dollar would reduce inflation and revive the economic situation of Iraqi families, who has suffered greatly because of the high rate of inflation, which is the cause of deteriorating the level of savings as well. Thus, the Central Bank had to take this action, which many observers consider it a step towards a comprehensive reform of Iraqi economy.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 13, 2006 5:03 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From Reuters, did anyone see this?

INTERVIEW-Iraq finmin expects dinar to strengthen 13 pct
Mon 11 Dec 2006 17:23:43 GMT
By Mariam Karouny

BAGHDAD, Dec 11 (Reuters) - Iraq's government expects the dinar to strengthen by 13 percent against the dollar by early 2007 after raising interest rates to limit the use of dollars in the economy and stem inflation, the country's finance minister said.

Minister Bayan Jabor told Reuters on Monday that the government has targeted an exchange rate to reach 1,260 dinars to the dollar in the first three months of 2007 from the current level of 1,500 to the dollar.

The 2007 $41 billion budget assumes an exchange rate of 1,260 dinars to the dollar, he said, adding the cabinet would discuss the draft budget on Saturday before hopefully sending it to parliament next week.

"There is an expected increase in the value of the dinar. The exchange rate is expected to drop from 1,500 dinars to the dollar to 1,260 in early 2007," he said in an interview.

"We will calculate the budget based on 1,260 dinars to the dollar and based on 50 dollars per barrel (of oil) and production of 1.7 million barrels per day.

"The central bank has started increasing the interest rate from 12 percent and it has now reached 16 percent."

Jabor said there were no immediate plans to raise interest rates further. The central bank increased its main interest rate to 16 percent from 12 percent on Nov. 8, according to the bank's Web site.

He said the aim of raising interest rates was to strengthen the dinar to fight dollarisation -- the use of dollars on a daily basis alongside the local dinar currency -- to stem high inflation and boost Iraqis' confidence in the domestic currency.

"It is to fight dollarisation. Every economy that depends on the dollar is considered weak," he said.

"Now I can say that Iraqis should use dinars instead of dollars. When we increase the value of the dinar it will help ease inflation, which is now at 56 percent. We expect inflation will decrease," he said.

Iraq's inflation rate hit 76.6 percent in August.

But sectarian violence is claiming the lives of more than 100 Iraqis a day and threatening to push the country into civil war. The daily violence has scared off foreign investments in the oil rich country.

A recent UN report said there was growing unemployment and poverty rates in Iraq. Corruption is endemic and state owned industries are inefficient. Oil is the main source of revenues but oil sector is suffering from years of mismanagement and violence.

"There is also a psychological factor -- Iraqis need to trust their currency when it is stable or strengthening."

The International Monetary Fund, which has backed Baghdad with a $685 million standby credit agreement, has also warned that rising inflation could undermine economic well-being and hinder the goal of improving the welfare of ordinary Iraqis.

Another problem facing the government is the high rate of unemployment, mainly among the young. Officials say the unemployment rate is between 30 and 40 percent.

Jabor said he was not worried by possible negative consequences of strengthening the dinar because the Central Bank had enough reserves to support the dinar.

"The dinar is strong -- the central bank is one of the best central banks in the region except for those in the Gulf. We have reserves of $15 billion in foreign currency other than gold, and it is only to support the dinar."

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 13, 2006 5:08 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

From www.cbiraq.com

Announcement No.(825)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 825 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Wednesday 2006 / 12/ 13 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 10 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1414 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ ------ -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 17.125.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) ------
Total offers for buying (US $) 17.125.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $)

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- December 13, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Even a small nuclear war could change the world
ABC NEWS

Dec. 12, 2006 — The decline of the Soviet Union may have left many Americans feeling safer from nuclear war, but a disturbing new study argues that an attack by terrorists sponsored by a small nuclear state could be just as lethal.

The study assumes that weapons used by terrorists, or smaller states, would be much smaller than those available to the superpowers, probably on the scale of those dropped on Japan during World War II. But the results would be catastrophic because the weapons would most likely be targeted at major cities.

Many of the conclusions are based on the consequences of two nations, each with 50 bombs, delivering their full complement of weapons on each other. That's not a hypothetical figure, they suggested, because both India and Pakistan are believed to have at least that many weapons.

So what would happen if they had at it?

About 20 million persons in that area would die, the scientists concluded. But the weapons would send up such a plume of smoke that the upper atmosphere would become opaque, blocking out so much solar radiation that temperatures around the world would plummet.

"You would have a global climate change unprecedented in human history," said Alan Robock, associated director of the Center for Environmental Prediction at Rutgers Cook College and a member of the research team. "It would instantaneously be colder than the little ice age." There would be shorter growing seasons, less rain, less sun, and starvation around the world.

Richard Turco, the founding director of the Institute of the Environment at the University of California, Los Angeles, said the results would be about 10 times worse than the historic eruption of Tambora in Indonesia in 1815, which sent killing frosts across North America. That year became known as "the year without a summer."

That lead Turco to conclude that "human society is extremely vulnerable at this time," a modest statement considering these conclusions in the report:

- "Thirty-two countries that do not now have nuclear weapons possess sufficient fissionable nuclear materials to construct weapons, some in a relatively short period of time."

- In some cases, the casualties could "rival previous estimates for a limited strategic war between the superpowers involving thousands of weapons carrying several thousand megatons of yield," partly because more people live in concentrated areas, surrounded by more and more volatile materials.

- "An individual in possession of one of the thousands of existing lightweight nuclear weapons could kill or injure a million people in a terrorist attack."

- "Many nuclear weapons are small in size and light in weight and could easily be transported in a car or van." Some tactical nuclear weapons in the U.S. arsenal, for example, weigh only about 300 pounds.

The scientists admit that the lethality of a weapon is subject to many variables, even such things as local wind and whether it's raining, so their numbers should not be taken as absolutes.

But they insist... it wouldn't take a huge arsenal, or many weapons, to produce catastrophe. "Even a single surface nuclear explosion, or an air burst in rainy conditions, in a city center is likely to cause the entire metropolitan area to be abandoned at least for decades owing to infrastructure damage and radioactive contamination," the scientists say in the conclusion of their report. It would also leave at least a million dead, and a million more injured.

The danger from nuclear weapons is not less today than when two superpowers threatened each other just a few years ago. It is more, they said repeatedly. Much more.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=2720173&page=1

-- December 13, 2006 6:13 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

New Site!
Just read about a new site called..Iraqslogger.com
It has been put together by a excnn executive who wanted to do a blog that covered everthing that is and is not being covered by the MSM...
Just took a look at it...it appears to be very comprehensive and informative...
Suggest you give a perview..

Also read today the RV is designed to curb inflation, and has been considered for quite sometime...CBI apparently has issued a statement they are going to continue this course presently set for the dinar...some speculation is it will stop around 1000 to 1330..and allow time for the RV to take affect...
Sort of like shooting...shoot for affect and windage...make your adjustments and hit the target with the 3-4 shot..

-- December 13, 2006 7:35 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Analysis: Iraq oil law stuck on contracts
By BEN LANDO
UPI Energy Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Dec. 13 (UPI) -- The completion of Iraqi oil law negotiations now hinge on whether the central or regional government has final say on oil contracts, a roadblock negotiators don't seem willing to give on.

There has been some advancement on creating a federal oil law, necessary for development of and investment in the world's third-largest crude reserves, though a top Kurdish official warns compromises his side has made have not been finalized yet.

Qubad Talabany, the Kurdistan Regional Government's representative to the United States, told United Press International Tuesday a new round of negotiations have begun in Baghdad but "we haven't made progress yet."

He said negotiations will continue "until the law is approved."

"This is the conflict you have," said Mohammed Zine, regional manager of Middle East for the energy analyst IHS.

He said now Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is facing heat to end violence in Iraq and is in turn resting "big pressure on the government and Oil Minister" to deliver an oil law to the Parliament.

He said he doesn't think this will happen by the end of the year, though there is no telling on daily events in Iraq.

"I don't see what the rush is. Even if you sign a contract there is still big problems with security."

A final oil law will have three main results: settle internal disputes over control of and revenues from oil; lay a groundwork for the estimated $20 billion of investments needed after years of neglect and mismanagement under Saddam Hussein, the toll of U.N. sanctions, the U.S.-led war and ongoing attacks by Sunni and Shiite militias; and both will lead to increased income that can be put toward other reconstruction and upgrade security in the country.

News reports over the weekend claimed a deal on the oil law was close, though Talabany explained each glossed over major remaining issues.

He said while the Kurds have compromised on oil revenue sharing and allowing the central government to be responsible for this collecting and redistributing it, "the mechanisms for distribution of revenues have not been agreed upon yet."

He said oversight, technical and constitutional details "to ensure regions get their share of revenues" have not been finalized. This comes from the fear a central government, be it fueled by greed or a sectarian agenda, will not deliver on the money a region may be due.

http://www.upi.com/Energy/

-- December 13, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Lies of Omission: A Simple Test for Media Bias
Posted by Al Brown on December 13, 2006 - 12:59.

Yesterday Howie, one of my co-bloggers at The Jawa Report conducted what he describes as a "simple test" for mainstream media bias against reporting positive news from Iraq.

Howie posted about three separate stories from Iraq, one positive, one mostly positive, and one negative, then tracked the amount of play each story got in the MSM via Google's news search function.

The negative story about a successful suicide bombing, one of many staged for the benefit of Western news cameras, received 779 news citations on Google.

A story from CENTCOM about a bomb discovered at the Golden Mosque in Samarra, that detonated while demolitions experts were trying to move it, causing no injuries and minimal damage, came in second, with ten entries under the technically accurate but misleading headline, "Bomb Explodes at Iraq's Samarra Mosque." The mainstream deliberately put the worst possible face on the story. Instead of a headline about the success of Iraqi and Coalition forces in detecting and minimizing the effect of the bomb, the headline writer managed to add more white noise to the "quagmire" meme.

The positive story Howie tracked is a CENTCOM news release about Iraqi troops freeing 23 hostages and capturing their 6 kidnappers.

The damning Google search results are here. The only mainstream source that picked up the story was the New York Times, and they buried it within a story headlined "Truck Bomb in Iraq Kills 70 in Shiite Crowd."

http://newsbusters.org/node/9634

-- December 13, 2006 9:13 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Carl;

About Iraqslogger.com - From the site's AboutUs - "We are a group of well known professionals who have come together from media, marketing, intelligence, and military backgrounds. Praedict Limited is an ethical, secular, non-denominational and independent minded for-profit organization. Stay tuned for the announcement of our limited offer of 300 customer slots available on a monthly subscription for much less than the price of a single seasoned intelligence analyst."

In spite of saying they are not left or right (supposedly), I thought if I looked up one controversial issue and followed it it might give me an idea of the leanings of the site. I picked the coverage of the terrorist network Jazeera, and found the site reporting that since the Iraqi government kicked them out for inciting violence, they look silly giving news coverage of Iraq from Qatar. Quote, "Al Jazeera should try harder to re-establish its presence in Iraq, at least for AJE, whose key international competitors all have Baghdad-based reporting teams." http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/59/Iraq_Al_Jazeeras_Weak_Point
Encouraging a terrorist network to try and get around the ban.. well, you judge how neutral THAT is.

I find their top topics "Casualties/Iraqi" and "Casualties/US" on the mainpage at the top also to show bias.
Why not put it under "War heros?" And why no category "Casualties/insurgents?"

I give them a grudging mark for some non-leftist coverage in their top story (4 hours old) which says,
Bush: Nearly 5,900 Enemy Killed, Nabbed
Disclosure Comes as Bush Meets Pentagon Chiefs
Posted 4 hr. 33 min. ago
After talking Iraq today with U.S. military chiefs at the Pentagon, President Bush did something unusual for a U.S. official: disclosured how many enemy forces have recently been killed or captured -- "nearly 5,900" over October, November and the first week of December.
http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/179/Bush_Nearly_5900_Enemy_Killed_Nabbed

But all they did was NOT spin any media leftist spin on it, only saying it was unusual, and certainly no applause for the killing or capture of these enemy forces, so they are not exactly right leaning.

Their US sources?

U.S. Media
› CSMonitor
› CNN
› LA Times
› NBC Baghdad Blog
› New Republic
› Newsweek
› New York Times
› Time
› USA Today
› US News & WR
› Washington Post
› Stars and Stripes
› ABC News
› NBC News
› Fox News
› CBS News
› Editor & Publisher
› Natl Defense Mag
› Washington Times
› Wall Street Journal

All in all, I wonder if it is not just a repeat of the (incredibly negative) MSM views expressed in most of the above.
Have to keep looking to see - but I appreciate the heads up on this supposedly "new" site with a "new" approach..
by "well known established media professionals". Wouldn't it be nice if they told us who they really are?
Or would that spoil the fun, because we would know the "well knowns" and know their bias?

Sara.

-- December 13, 2006 9:21 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year especially the guys over in the sandbox like Turtle and panhandler.

The conversation on the forum has been good this year and I hope we're getting closer to our goal of a fantastic RV.

I need the RV because I've got "thangs to do!"

Cheers

-- December 14, 2006 8:43 AM ∞

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Chris wrote:

Been traveling. Checked in from time to time.

Another rumor bites the dust as the magical 13th date has not yielded a large RV (unless you are willing to take a 2 dinar change and call it victory) Kind of like NASA's discussion of life on other planets. We all thought that meant meeting people like us. Now we are willing to define finding bacteria as success. Most of us don't have to go farther than the kitchen sink to find that(IMHO)

Exchange Rate

Announcement No.(826)

D.G. of Foreign Exchange Control

The 826 daily currency auction was held in the Central Bank of Iraq day Thursday 2006 / 12/ 14 so the results were as follows :

Details Notes
Number of banks 15 -----
Auction price selling dinar / US $ 1411 -----
Auction price buying dinar / US $ 1409 -----
Amount sold at auction price (US $) 60.250.000 -----
Amount purchased at Auction price (US $) 200.000
Total offers for buying (US $) 60.250.000 -----
Total offers for selling (US $) 200.000 -----

-- December 14, 2006 10:17 AM ∞

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Kevin Brancato wrote:

Sorry for the interruption; this thread is now closed.

The comments continue here.

-- December 14, 2006 11:04 AM ∞