March 1, 2010
Dinar and Discussion for March 2010
By DinarAdmin
This is the Dinar And Discussion Page for March.
Sara wrote:
Iraq to reinstate 20,000 Saddam-era army officers
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
Hamza Hendawi, Associated Press Writer
Fri Feb 26, 2010BAGHDAD – Iraq on Friday reinstated 20,000 former army officers dismissed after the U.S.-led invasion, a landmark gesture at reconciliation ahead of the March 7 elections.
Defense Ministry Spokesman Mohammed al-Askari denied Friday's announcement was linked to the election, insisting funding for the 20,000 positions is only now available.
"This measure has nothing to do with elections, rather it is related to budget allocations," said al-Askari, who did not provide a breakdown of the ranks of the officers being reinstated.
Critics, however, said the sudden return of their jobs might influence the votes of the reinstated officers.
"No doubt, this move is related to the elections and it aims at gaining votes," said Maysoun al-Damlouji, a candidate from a secular bloc led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a fierce critic of al-Maliki.
A Defense Ministry statement said the rehired personnel would be reinstated by Sunday, but a senior Iraqi military official said absorbing so many could take weeks or months to complete.
In recent years, thousands of officers from the disbanded army have trickled back to service in an ongoing process of reintegration. The official said a ministry committee has been screening officers for ties to Saddam's regime or involvement in atrocities or war crimes.
He said reinstatements were strictly based on the army's present requirements and mainly benefited officers from the rank of colonel down. U.S. commanders have in the past pointed out that Iraq's new army, which is at least 300,000-strong, desperately needed mid-ranking and experienced noncommissioned officers.
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.
The United States hopes a transparent and credible election will bolster national reconciliation efforts and pave the way for its combat forces to go home by the end of August and the rest by next year's end.
Regardless of the motive, reinstating the large group of officers would help reconciliation. Al-Maliki has raised Sunni resentment with his relentless denouncements of Baathists in Iraqi politics. But many were allowed to return to government service in 2008, and al-Maliki has also shown flexibility when it comes to the military.
Al-Maliki's Shiite-dominated government has already reinstated many Sunni officers as top commanders in the new army. It also waived "de-Baathification" rules and reinstated generals — Sunnis and Shiites — who once held senior positions in Saddam's ruling party.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100226/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=AoLNGrQkJvrHg2H3Ya.6W4Nn.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTJzMmxzb2huBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMjI2L21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM2BHBvcwM2BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDaXJhcXRvcmVpbnN0
-- March 1, 2010 12:49 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Leading Iraqi Sunni ends party's poll boycott
Feb 25, 2010
By Mohammed AbbasBAGHDAD - The party of a prominent Sunni Muslim politician banned from taking part in Iraq's March election on Thursday decided not to boycott the poll, easing fears that other Sunni groups would also stay away.
Saleh al-Mutlaq said his National Dialogue Front party would take part in the March 7 vote as part of the Iraqiya election coalition, a cross-sectarian group expected to pose a challenge to Iraq's established Shi'ite Islamist parties.
His Sunni party said last week it would boycott the vote and urged others to do so too in protest at a ban on candidates with alleged ties to former dictator Saddam Hussein's Baath party. Mutlaq is among the most prominent of the banned candidates.
"There is great pressure from the Iraqi public which wants us to take part and we have great support," said Mutlaq.
A Sunni boycott of the poll would have threatened the legitimacy of the election and scotched hopes that greater Sunni participation in Iraqi politics would help reduce support for Sunni Islamist insurgent groups like al Qaeda.
A panel led by Shi'ite lawmakers last month banned more than 400 candidates accused of links to the Baath party, which brutally oppressed Iraq's majority Shi'ites and Kurds.
Although the ban affected more Shi'ite candidates, prominent Sunnis and Shi'ites working with them to form cross-sectarian alliances were hit hard, fanning Sunni accusations of Shi'ite attempts to marginalise them ahead of the election.
Iraq has only just emerged from years of sectarian bloodshed, and the country's minority Sunni Arabs hope the vote will give them a greater say in Iraqi politics.
"We don't want to prevent Iraqis from expressing their opinion, but at the same time, we have reservations about this election and its results even now, and we consider it lacking in legitimacy," Mutlaq told reporters at a news conference.
He declined to say how many candidates his party brings to the Iraqiya election coalition, which is headed by secular Shi'ite former prime minister Iyad Allawi.
The March election is Iraq's second full national vote since the 2003 U.S. invasion toppled Saddam, and is seen as crucial in solidifying Iraq's young democracy.
http://business.maktoob.com/20090000440098/Leading_Iraqi_Sunni_ends_party_s_poll_boycott/Article.htm
-- March 1, 2010 12:56 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Theyr'e having a ball in Iraq right now.
Theyr'e a lively bunch. Imagine them discussing politics in Iraq right now, at dinner tables, waiving their hands, granma chipping in with some odball comments, and the kids scream.
A discussion in a street corner have a tendency to swell to a sizeable crowd in a very small time.
Theyr'e extreemely passionate about things.
One thing for sure though....they are giving their country their choice of government.
They seem to play along in that game, in their own way of course, and even if their way may seem strange for a westerner on occasion, it doesn't matter, they are playing a winning game.
They are choosing.
-- March 1, 2010 1:29 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
Islamic Freedom Fighters are those who do not wish to be oppressed by a tyrannical occupying force. In case you forget during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan the United States supplied and funded the Mujahideen and our government labled them "freedom fighters". Now, these same Mujahideen are opposing our tyrannical government in Afghanistan and no longer called "freedom fighters". Why this inconsistency?
Our foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan is a deplorable; we invade soveregin countries and use a egmatic concept as a "War on Terror". As I have said, George W. Bush and Barack Obama are war criminals much worse than Saddam Hussein. Each should be tried as such. Islamic freedom fighters will have to unite in order to free themselves from tyrrany imposed by imperial America.
Concerning my selling of my dinars I am not bitter or angry in doing so. The dinar is a weak currency pegged to a weak American Dollar. The CBI is following the same monetary policy as our FED; they have assumed debt while debasing its currency. Iraq is not the future. In my view, the future is China.
Rob N.
-- March 1, 2010 10:47 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
All,
Let us hope that the Iraqi Elections are filled with disorganization and chaos; may the people revolt and a coup d'etat occur and successfully topple the regime of Al-Malaki. May Afghanistan continue to be the graveyard of empires.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 1, 2010 10:53 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
I thought this worth a repost..
===
Rebirth of a Nation
Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'—but it's a start.
By Babak Dehghanpisheh, John Barry and Christopher Dickey | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 26, 2010
From the magazine issue dated Mar 8, 2010"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."
... it has to be said and it should be understood—now, almost seven hellish years later—that something that looks mighty like democracy is emerging in Iraq. And while it may not be a beacon of inspiration to the region, it most certainly is a watershed event that could come to represent a whole new era in the history of the massively undemocratic Middle East.
The elections to be held in Iraq on March 7 feature 6,100 parliamentary candidates from all of the country's major sects and many different parties. They have wildly conflicting interests and ambitions. Yet in the past couple of years, these politicians have come to see themselves as part of the same club, where hardball political debate has supplanted civil war and legislation is hammered out, however slowly and painfully, through compromises—not dictatorial decrees or, for that matter, the executive fiats of U.S. occupiers. Although protected, encouraged, and sometimes tutored by Washington, Iraq's political class is now shaping its own system—what Gen. David Petraeus calls "Iraqracy." With luck, the politics will bolster the institutions through which true democracy thrives.
Of course, as U.S. Ambassador to Baghdad Christopher Hill says, "the real test of a democracy is not so much the behavior of the winners; it will be the behavior of the losers." Even if the vote comes off relatively peacefully, the maneuvering to form a government could go on for weeks or months. Elections in December 2005 did not produce a prime minister and cabinet until May 2006. And this time around the wrangling will be set against the background of withdrawing American troops. Their numbers have already dropped from a high of 170,000 to fewer than 100,000, and by August there should be no more than 50,000 U.S. soldiers left in the country. If political infighting turns to street fighting, the Americans may not be there to intervene.
Anxiety is high, not least in Washington, where Vice President Joe Biden now chairs a monthly cabinet-level meeting to monitor developments in Iraq. But a senior White House official says the group is now "cautiously optimistic" about developments there. "The big picture in Iraq is the emergence of politics," he notes. Indeed, what's most striking—and least commented upon—is that while Iraqi politicians have proved noisy, theatrical, inclined to storm off and push confrontations to the brink, in recent years they have always pulled back.
Think about what's happened just in the last month. After a Shiite--dominated government committee banned several candidates accused of ties to the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein, there were fears that sectarian strife could pick up again. Saleh al-Mutlaq, who heads one of the largest Sunni parties, was disqualified. He says he tried complaining to the head of the committee, Ahmad Chalabi, and even met with the Iranian ambassador, thinking Tehran had had a hand in what he called these "dirty tricks"—but to no avail.
Two weeks later Mutlaq nervously paced the garden of the massive Saddam--era Al-Rashid Hotel as he weighed his dwindling options. "I got a call from the American Embassy today," he said, grimly. "They said, 'Most of the doors are closed. There's nothing left for us to work.' " He shook his head. "The American position is very weak."
But what's most interesting is what did not happen. There was no call for violence, and Mutlaq soon retracted his call for a boycott. The elections remain on track. Only about 150 candidates were ultimately crossed off the electoral lists. No red-faced Sunni politicians appeared on television ranting about a Shiite witch hunt or Kurdish conspiracy. In fact, other prominent Sunni politicians have been conspicuous for their low profile. Ali Hatem al--Suleiman, a tough, flamboyant Sunni sheik who heads the powerful Dulaim tribe in Anbar province, is running for Parliament on a list with Shiite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. He scoffs at effete urban pols like Mutlaq: "They represent nothing. Did they join us in the fight against terrorists? We are tribes and have nothing to do with them."
What outsiders tend to miss as they focus on the old rivalries among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds is that sectarianism is giving way to other priorities. "The word 'compromise' in Arabic—mosawama—is a dirty word," says Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, who served for many years as Iraq's national--security adviser and is running for Parliament. "You don't compromise on your concept, your ideology, your religion—or if you do," he flicked his hand dismissively, "then you're a traitor." Rubaie leans in close to make his point. "But we learned this trick of compromise. So the Kurds are with the Shia on one piece of legislation. The Shia are with the Sunnis on another piece of legislation, and the Sunnis are with the Kurds on still another."
The turnaround has been dramatic. "The political process is very combative," says a senior U.S. adviser to the Iraqi government who is not authorized to speak on the record. "They fight—but they get sufficient support to pass legislation." Some very important bills have stalled, most notably the one that's meant to decide how the country's oil riches are divvied up. But as shouting replaces shooting, the Parliament managed to pass 50 bills in the last year alone, while vetoing only three. The new legislation included the 2010 budget and an amendment to the investment law, as well as a broad law, one of the most progressive in the region, defining the activities of nongovernmental organizations.
The Iraqis have surprised even themselves with their passion for democratic processes. In 2005, after decades living in Saddam Hussein's totalitarian "republic of fear," they flooded to the polls as soon as they got the chance. Today Baghdad is papered over with campaign posters and the printing shops on Saadoun Street seem to be open 24 hours a day, cranking out more. Political cliques can no longer rely on voters to rubber-stamp lists of sectarian candidates. Those that seem to think they still might, like the Iranian-influenced Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, have seen their support wane dramatically. Provincial elections a year ago were dominated by issues like the need for electricity, jobs, clean water, clinics, and especially security. Maliki has developed a reputation for delivering some of that, and his candidates won majorities in nine of 18 provinces. They lead current polls as well.
Ali Allawi, who was minister of finance and minister of defense early in the post-Saddam government, describes the current scene in Iraq as a "minimalist" democracy built around a "new class" of 500 to 600 politicians. The Middle East has seen this kind thing before, he says, in Egypt and Iraq under British tutelage in the first half of the last century. Then, the elites learned to play party politics, too, but not to meet the needs of the people. "That ended in tears," says Allawi.
In Iraq today, conditions seem more likely to reinforce than to undermine the gains so far. Iraqis have been hardened by a very tough past and now, coming out the other side of the infernal tunnel that is their recent history, many share a sense of solidarity as survivors. "Identities in Iraq are fluid, but there is more of a sense of an Iraqi national identity," says Middle East historian Phebe Marr, whose first research trip to the country was in 1956.
You notice this, for instance, at the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra, where conductor Karim Wasfi manages to extract harmony from Kurds, Christians, Sunnis, Shiites, and Bahais. Some of the women musicians wear the hijab, or headscarf; others do not. During the height of sectarian violence in 2006, almost half of the orchestra fled the country. Those who stayed behind got death threats, and one was killed. During one concert they had to play against the contrapuntal percussion of a firefight just outside the hall—but play they did. "It was about survival," says Wasfi.
Wasfi now says there are audiences asking for the symphony to perform even in conservative religious towns like Karbala, in southern Iraq. And bigger cities like Baghdad and Basra are regaining their old cosmopolitan airs. Abu Nawas Street along the Tigris River is once again lit up with lively restaurants serving broiled fish and beer. Liquor stores that had closed up shop during the height of the civil war now stack cases of Heineken and boxes of Johnny Walker Black in front of their doors. University students, once cowed by militias like the Mahdi Army, are feeling freer.
The changes are more than superficial. As economist Douglass North pointed out last year in his influential book Violence and Social Orders, the key to building stable societies is to create a web of institutions that people can fall back on when governments, or mere politics, fail. Iraq is beginning to do just that. The country not only has the freest press in the region, but the gutsiest. More than 800 newspapers and TV and radio stations have aggressively gone after politicians and sleazy businessmen. The country now has more than 1,200 trained judges, and courts have convicted senior officials on corruption charges, with more cases pending. Women's groups, too, have asserted themselves, pushing for 25 percent of provincial councils to be female and forcing the Education Ministry to roll back a proposal to separate boys and girls in school.
Perhaps the most encouraging sign is that Iraq's military has become one of the most respected institutions in the country. The remnants of Al Qaeda in Iraq continue to carry out horrendous suicide operations, and some analysts expect the terrorists to step up their activities if sectarian tensions increase, and as American troops withdraw. But they no longer seem to pose an existential threat to the central government, and have inspired near--universal revulsion among Iraqis. Nor do most close observers fear the opposite—that the Army might become too strong and mount a coup. "I think people mention this because it's been such a recurrent theme in Iraq's past," says Ambassador Hill. "But we're certainly not seeing signs that the military is interested in engaging in politics."
Retired U.S. Army Lt. Gen. James Dubik, who was in charge of training the Iraqi military in 2007 and 2008, says the more relevant question is whether Iraq's political leaders might try to use the military for sectarian purposes. Prime Minister Maliki, who directly controls some counterterrorism forces, has been accused of targeting Sunni rivals using those troops. But, says Dubik, Iraqi commanders are "very much attuned" to the danger, and generally do not launch such missions without broader approval. "They are really trying to develop a mature process."
Neighboring Iran remains a concern. Tehran continues to compete for influence in Iraq using every means at its disposal, including trade, religious ties, diplomacy, and covert links to militias that target U.S. troops. But since Iran's own contested presidential elections last June, its influence has diminished. Seyyed Sadeq, the police chief in the Iraqi city of Al Amarah, is a Shiite who trained with the Iranian-supported Badr Brigades, and was based in Iran throughout the 1990s. Several of his Iraqi friends from those days remained on the Iranian payroll after 2003. Members of the Quds Force, the branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards that runs its foreign operations, "used to come here every month or so," says Sadeq. "But recently it's been every six, seven months. I am hearing that Quds Force commanders are busy with the internal operations in Iran so they don't have much time to pay attention to Iraq."
Most important in the long term is the fact that whoever rules in Iraq should be able to take advantage of the country's enormous and largely untapped wealth of oil and natural gas. The Kurds in the north, the Shiites in the south, and now the Sunnis in the west of the country can all lay claim to enormous fields—and even without a hydrocarbon law on the books, the government is finding ways to work with foreign oil companies to exploit these resources. Industry analysts believe Iraq could raise its output from almost 2.5 million barrels a day to 10 million by the end of the decade. Even at current production rates, Iraq's revenues last year were $39 billion.
This is what truly scares Iraq's neighbors. Yes, even the country's fledgling democracy is more vibrant than anywhere else in the region, except perhaps Lebanon (and Iraqis love to point out that America's own system isn't exactly working in textbook fashion right now). But more important, the foundations of a regional power are emerging, one that is equally threatening to Saudi Arabia and to Iran. (Some analysts believe Tehran's nuclear program is meant to intimidate and deter a resurgent Baghdad, not just Washington and Tel Aviv.) Iraq, for better or worse, democratic or not, will be a power to be reckoned with.
with Hussam Ali and Salih Mehdi in Baghdad, and Maziar Bahari
http://www.newsweek.com/id/234281?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewsweekInt%2FTopNews+%28UPDATED+-+Newsweek+International+Editions+-+Top+News%29
-- March 1, 2010 12:26 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Although this isn't Dinar related, I thought it worth noting, as I am sure the other side would do if the tables were turned:
===
Baby Survives 3 Days With Shot in Chest After Parents Commit Global Warming Suicide
Monday, March 1, 2010, 5:59 AM
Jim HoftA seven-month old baby girl survived a shot to the chest after her parents shot themselves and their two-year-old in a global warming murder-suicide pact.)
The New York Post reported:
A seven-month-old girl miraculously survived alone for three days after one of her parents shot her in the chest – apparently as part of a bizarre murder-suicide pact blamed on global warming.
The baby was discovered with a bullet casing in her chest and covered with blood by police in the Argentinean city of Goya, near the bodies of her parents and 2-year-old brother, the Latin American Herald reported Saturday.
Police broke into the home after neighbors complained of a stench coming from the house. The boy was found with a gunshot wound in his back, while his parents died from gunshot wounds to the chest.
The parents, 56-year-old Francisco Lotero and 23-year-old Miriam Coletti, are believed to have been spurred by their fears about global climate change, London’s Telegraph reported.
A letter was found on a table expressing the couple’s anger at the government for not responding to the environmental crisis.
Doctors said the baby’s condition has been improving every day, the Herald Tribune reported.
--end quote--
Someone needs to sue Al Gore.
Comments
1) Tammy
Thanks, Al Gore, for creating a non-existent hysteria across the world!
Obviously, these people were unstable to begin with, but the loony global warming freaks gave them a push over the edge.
I hope the baby recovers.
Sick freaks.2) olm
Someone does need to sue Al Gore. I realize the hoax was intended to enrich al and friends and deliver unlimited power but stories like this are proof that they went way too far for purely selfish reasons.
3) LilMissSunshiner
Perhaps an appropriate response to this tragedy would to issue an arrest warrant for Al Gore and prosecute him for inciting social unrest resulting in death.
4) Hotspur
To hear the rhetoric coming out of peoples’ mouths about “reducing” the human population, we already see what kinds of damage a cult can do.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/baby-survives-shot-in-chest-after-parents-global-warming-murder-suicide/
-- March 1, 2010 12:37 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Malaki have made a statement for the first time on the issue of Iraq Dinars, in where he said he is working with CBI to find a workable way get the iraqi Dinar revalued.
-- March 1, 2010 10:58 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
Mujaheedin and Taliban are two distinct different entities.
You're mixing, up shit the whole time, and throws it into a generality.
Responding to you with logic will not work. I have tried ....but there is no one home. Circuits in your mind are playing phrases for you the whole time, thats all there is left of you.
I really wish you would come out of your hard shell, and be a human being again, be yourself, but I can bet you a dime your too coward, and instead will continue to repeat all those circuits, over and over and over ...and over again.
Evil Empires, Marsians and enormous complex conspiracies are after you. are after us all, and there is nowhere to hide.
You have stupid explanations to everything with the snap of your fingers.
Those circuits are serving you well, they come out like a machinegun.
Have you ever asked yoursef ...who am I?
All those curcuits are telling you who you are, but deep inside you know that's not you.
All that shit that is talking to you....that's not you.
I wish you good luck in finding out who you really are.
-- March 1, 2010 11:21 PM ∞
panhandler wrote:
Rob N. . . . . .one of my favorite posters for the longest time, I've been affected with terminal cancer, but all in all, I don't think it's as bad as yours. . . I don't know what has happened to you in the past 5 years,. . .but I know a great oncologist who will help you get out of your system whatever ails you. . .peace to you brother. . .send me an address, and I'll send you some of my mellow pills, cause God knows you really need them. . .sorry to sound like this. . . Panhandler
-- March 2, 2010 12:57 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq, Iran and the Premiership
Posted on: Mon, Mar 01, 2010Leader of the Supreme Islamic Council in Iraq (SICI) Ammar Al-Hakim and radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Al-Sadr are said to have received assurances that Iran will not prefer former Iraqi PM Ayad Allawi to any other Shiite candidate for the Iraqi Premiership. The following 380-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Sadr Movement reacted and what PM Nouri Al-Maliki is doing to block the way for Allawi to take over the Premiership.
http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq_Iran_and_the_Premiership/1095
-- March 2, 2010 1:01 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Oil revenues optimization would solve Iraq’s problems – Maliki
February 28, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the optimization of Iraq’s oil revenues would solve all the country’s problems and repay all foreign debts.
“Contracts with global oil corporations and conglomerates can also help repay all compensations for some Arab and Gulf states and meet all reconstruction obligations,” Maliki said in response to questions through the National Information Center.
Since 2003, Iraq has been seeking to have its $120 billion worth of foreign debts accumulated during the former regime’s time written off. The war-ravaged country, however, managed to get nearly half of this sum - $55 billion owed to the Paris Club of creditor nations – dropped.
Still Iraq owes a sum of $21 billion to some Arab countries, including $21 billion to the Gulf states - $15 billion to Saudi Arabia and $6 billion to Kuwait, over which negotiations are underway.
-- March 2, 2010 1:09 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
France seeks to bring Iraq out of Chapter VII
March 1, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has welcomed the recent steps toward activating the Iraqi-French relations for the good of the two people, a presidential statement said on Monday.
“The president received at his residence in Kirkuk on Monday (March. 1) the French ambassador in Baghdad, Boris Bwalun, and the French Consul in Kurdistan, Fredric Tisso, with whom he discussed ways of boosting bilateral relations in various domains,” said the statement received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
“The French diplomat conveyed President Nicola Sarkozy’s greetings and his comfort regarding the outcome of the recent visit paid by the French industry minister to Iraq, noting that his country plans to expand its activity throughout Iraq,” the statement added.
The statement quoted the diplomat as saying that his country is doing its utmost to bring Iraq out of the Chapter VII.
-- March 2, 2010 1:47 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger wrote: Malaki have made a statement for the first time on the issue of Iraq Dinars, in where he said he is working with CBI to find a workable way get the iraqi Dinar revalued.
I did look for it.. and I didn't find it.. anyone else have the article?
Sara.
-- March 2, 2010 1:51 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
The article you posted -"Rebirth of a nation" is one of the best articles I have read for a long time. Wow, almost made me go: ... rah! rah! Iraq!
It really highlight how far in the evloution they have come as a nation, their goals, and their views.
Iraq has changed tremedeously since Saddams time.
It feels like with this election, Iraq is really on the way, on a course they are setting themselves.
Roger
-- March 2, 2010 1:58 AM ∞
Roger, wrote:
It worked for me on:
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127789
Try that first.
R-- March 2, 2010 2:06 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Thanks, Roger.. got it! :)
I think we all have become alarmed (and, perhaps, puzzled) with Rob N's sudden change from support for the United States to hatred of and jihadist sentiments against it. In seeking to understand what might make a person change into such hateful sentiments, I cannot believe it is merely political preference. I believe it must go deeper. To side with those who wish your death and actively desire them to win (and thus extinquish your own life) is not only suicidal and irrational but brainwashed and not sane. Here is one plausible explanation for such a phenomenon:
===
The mysterious power of hate
David Kupelian explains how innocent children become murderers and rapists
Posted: February 28, 2010
By David KupelianEditor's note: The following is excerpted from WND Managing Editor David Kupelian's latest book, "HOW EVIL WORKS: Understanding and Overcoming the Destructive Forces That Are Transforming America."
Growing up in a family of genocide survivors as I did, I got to hear stories – lots of stories – about just how depraved human beings can get.
Although my father and grandmother passed down these often-vivid recollections to us in the comfort of a warm suburban family room, worlds apart from the nightmares of their youth, their painful psychological scars remained ever fresh. And to a young boy like me, those stories – of cruel soldiers and bandits hell-bent on mayhem, as well as their intended victims' resourcefulness and sometimes even heroism – provided a glimpse into a scary, alien dimension of evil.
But rather than tell any more family stories here – and most Armenian families have them, just as Jewish Holocaust survivors and their kin have their stories – I'll quote the U.S. ambassador to Turkey at the time, Henry Morgenthau, whose published memoirs exposed the horrors he witnessed firsthand during the 20th century's first genocide. Incredibly, he described how Turkish officials bragged to him about their nightly meetings where they would enthusiastically share the latest torture techniques to use on the Armenians:
Each new method of inflicting pain was hailed as a splendid discovery, and the regular attendants were constantly ransacking their brains in the effort to devise some new torment. He told me that they even delved into the records of the Spanish Inquisition and other historic institutions of torture and adopted all the suggestions found there ...
I'll spare you the details, except to say that Morgenthau, father of FDR's treasury secretary of the same name, summed up the "sadistic orgies" of the Armenian genocide by declaring: "Whatever crimes the most perverted instincts of the human mind can devise, and whatever refinements of persecution and injustice the most debased imagination can conceive, became the daily misfortunes of this devoted people. I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this."
Unfortunately, more such "horrible episodes" followed apace throughout the 20th century. In the 1930s, Stalin ordered his military to confiscate all of Ukraine's food and then sealed her borders to prevent any outside sustenance from getting in, thereby intentionally starving 7 million men, women and children to death. This was followed soon by Japan's demonic "rape of Nanking," during which 300,000 Chinese were butchered in their nation's capital, including up to 80,000 women and little girls gang-raped by Japanese soldiers and then stabbed to death with bayonets. The Nazi Holocaust in the '30s and '40s, of course, tops most people's list of genocidal horrors, with its death-camp crematoria, extermination of 6 million Jews and unspeakable "medical experiments." For sheer numbers of dead – tens of millions during the '60s and '70s – China's Mao Ze-Dong has been called history's worst mass murderer. Pol Pot's maniacal communist purge of Cambodia in the late 1970s led to the deaths of 2 million of his own people, while Rwanda's tribal genocide in the 1990s resulted in the club-and-machete massacring of 800,000. Today's ongoing Sudanese genocide, backed by the Islamist government in Khartoum, has resulted in at least 400,000 dead.
We frequently ask ourselves how human beings can sink to this level of cruelty. There's no precedent for it among even the most fearsome predators in the animal kingdom. What, then, makes us capable of such extreme evil?
Genocidal madness can't be blamed on a particular philosophy or religion. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were atheistic communists. Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were in the grip of quasi-religious personality cults that deified their leaders. And today's genocide in Sudan, like the Turkish military which tortured Armenians for sport a century earlier, is heavily motivated by Islamic jihadist fervor.
So what turns people into monsters? Since they obviously didn't start out that way, let's rewind back to the beginning of the story and see what causes an innocent child to morph into an instrument of great evil.
Children's songs that celebrate murder
There's nothing more beautiful than a young child. Nothing. The brightness of spirit, the spontaneity, the natural intelligence – which Einstein called "the holy curiosity of inquiry" – are breathtaking.
What, then, possesses a smart, handsome young 5- or 6-year-old boy to go on Palestinian television and sing, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber"? Or a group of children, both boys and girls, to sing together, "How pleasant is the smell of martyrs, how pleasant the smell of land, the land enriched by the blood, the blood pouring out of a fresh body."
What? How does the horror and stench of death magically transform into the "pleasant smell" of life and glory for these kids? What happens to them in their earliest, most vulnerable years to induce some to later strap on explosive belts and vaporize themselves while murdering dozens of unsuspecting innocents?
Why, growing up in a "normal home" with a mom, dad, siblings, school and friends, does a young man suddenly feel compelled to stab his own sister to death – knifing her not just once or twice, but over and over again in a murderous frenzy – just because somebody said she was walking down the street with a male who wasn't a relative?
Clearly, as these young people's indoctrination progresses from singing songs about atrocities to actually committing them, we're witnessing not only a toxic philosophy at work, but also the magic ingredient that makes that philosophy come to life – namely, hatred. Underneath all the smiles, underneath the "devout" faith, underneath whatever persona is masking the overwhelming fear, confusion, and jihadist programming that have been cultivated in them since birth, lies the nuclear reactor core of their being – a smoldering fireball of suppressed rage.
Intense hatred has a way of morphing inexorably into full-blown, epic madness. Indeed, hate is like spiritual plutonium, possessing bizarre, explosive and transformative qualities of which we are largely unaware. It is the means by which evil itself blooms on this earth, especially when rage is focused and magnified by a malignant worldview. If you think this is overstated, just contemplate with me the following news items:
- Popular Middle East television programming for children that features jihadist clones of Mickey Mouse, Sesame Street characters and other kids' favorites, in which the lovable, cuddly stars teach children vicious lies and the virtues of mass murder.
- Rape victims being flogged and imprisoned, as when a Saudi court in early 2009 sentenced a 23-year-old female who had been gang-raped by five men to 100 lashes and a year in jail. Her crime? Accepting a lift from a man who drove her against her will to his house and took turns, with four of his friends, raping her.
- An epidemic of "honor killings" – at least 5,000 per year according to the U.N., but many more that go unreported – in which fathers, brothers or mothers brutally murder their own daughter/sister merely for being seen in public with a male or similar "offense." For example, two Jordanian brothers used axes to murder their two sisters, aged 20 and 27, after the older sister left home to marry a man without her family's permission and the younger one ran away to join her. After someone tipped off the brothers as to their sisters' whereabouts, the men went into their home with axes and hacked them to death. "It was a brutal scene," one government official told the Jordan Times. "One victim's head was nearly cut clean off."
- Maniacal, zombie-like "religious police," such as those in Saudi Arabia who on March 11, 2002, allowed 15 young girls to die horrible deaths when a fire broke out in their school in Mecca. The religious police, or Mutaween, literally blocked firefighters from saving the girls because they weren't dressed in the proper Islamic way for girls and women to be seen outdoors. With helpless firemen watching, the religious police literally beat the girls – those who were not wearing their headscarves or abayas – back into the inferno.
What we're looking at here is criminally insane behavior – no less insane or criminal than that exhibited by severely deranged people we routinely lock up in maximum-security psychiatric hospitals or prisons in the United States.
Of course, by now we've all heard more than we care to know about radical jihad culture, with its pathological blame of Jews for everything, its condemnation of Western Civilization and its "die-while-killing-infidels-and-Allah-will-give-you-virgins" recruitment pitch. But distilling this "martyrdom" obsession down to its essence, common sense tells us no one murders innocent people or forces schoolgirls back into a burning building unless they're insanely angry. So, where exactly does this hate come from?
Let's understand, even a violent philosophy like that of radical Islam isn't necessarily sufficient, by itself, to create a rage-fueled jihadist. No, you become full of hate and driven to violate others only when someone else first violates you – when a parent, older sibling, teacher, cleric or other authority figure intimidates, frightens, degrades, bullies, humiliates or perhaps sexually abuses you. And such cruelty and degradation are, unfortunately, endemic in much of the Islamic world. Its rigid, authoritarian religious system, the near-slave status and abuse of women, the suffocating sexual repression, the widespread incidence of what can only be called the world's most flagrant child abuse (where even toddlers are groomed for future "martyrdom operations"), and the pervasive fear of flogging, amputation or stoning if one runs afoul of the ultra-strict Sharia legal code – all this creates an environment reeking of quiet terror. No wonder its victims take to terrorism so readily.
So, once these parents and other authorities, full of the madness and confusion injected into them during their own youth, succeed in passing it on to the next generation of youngsters by intimidating and indoctrinating them, it's child's play to focus the newly created jihadists' zeal onto the appropriate "hate object" – Jews, Americans, "infidels" and so on.
This dynamic is not unique to radical Islam. In fact, believe it or not, it's the hidden fabric of all too much of our own lives – albeit usually in a far less extreme form. In a perverse mirror reflection of the Golden Rule, we all tend compulsively to do unto others what was done unto us. We effortlessly internalize the cruelty of others.
This is because, aside from the obvious effects being angry and upset have on us – making us emotional, clouding our judgment and so on – it also throws us into "program mode." That's right: When we get upset at the intimidating words or actions of other people, their cruelty "infects" us in a very real way. So, for instance, if our parents angrily yelled at us all the time when we were children, we would tend to angrily yell at those smaller and weaker than us. A little bit of the bully gets inside of us, and we then bully others, in one form or another. We've all seen this, and we know that our prisons are full of molesters and abusers who were molested and abused as children.
Thus, maniacal imams and jihadist teachers find it relatively easy convert innocent children into suicide bombers. The first step is to indoctrinate them from birth with a poisonous belief system demonizing "infidels," a process explained by Israeli counter-terrorism expert Itamar Marcus in "The Genocide Mechanism":
Common to the framing of all genocide is a very specific kind of demonization. In Rwanda, the Hutus taught that the Tutsis were cockroaches and snakes. Tutsi women were portrayed as cunning seductresses who used beauty and sexual power to conquer the Hutus. … Radio Rwanda repeatedly broadcast a warning that Hutus were about to be attacked by Tutsis, to convince the Hutus that they needed to attack first to protect themselves.
This demonization included two specific components. First, the victims had to be perceived as a clear and present threat, so that the killers were convinced they were acting in self-defense. Second, the victims were dehumanized, so that the killers convinced themselves that they were not destroying real human beings.
Teaching children virtually from birth that Jews are subhuman, evil oppressors of Muslims – fiends who grind up Arab youngsters to use as ingredients in their Passover matzoh – is epidemic in the Islamic world. A typical example: The Saudi satellite television station Iqraa broadcast an interview with a 3-year-old Egyptian girl named Basmallah, who answered a question about Jews by declaring: "They are apes and pigs."
But this little girl is not about to murder anyone. She's just repeating statements fed to her by adults for the sake of winning their love and approval. Dehumanizing indoctrination isn't quite enough to launch a genocide. There must also be hate, and lots of it – not merely to fuel the atrocity machine, but to allow the indoctrination to fully take root.
In other words, whatever the toxic programming may be – Hutus demonizing Tutsis as "cockroaches and snakes," Turks accusing Armenians of being "enemy collaborators," Nazis likening Jews to "vermin" – for such outrageous and counter-intuitive falsehoods to be both believed and acted upon, those being indoctrinated must be kept in a very emotional state.
Recall that Hitler always kept his audiences super-emotional; that's how he programmed them and guarded against their naturally coming back to their senses. He was always stirring up their emotions, and by so doing, his thoughts became their thoughts, his feelings became their feelings. It's brainwashing 101: Cause your intended victims to become upset, angry, emotionally riled up, and you have your hands on the control levers of their mind.
Children are so vulnerable, like spiritual sponges, that if they're treated with cruelty, if they're degraded sexually, if they're constantly confused and intimidated – and at the same time are indoctrinated with lies denying their neighbors' humanity, and also showered with promises of glory, reward and brotherhood for believing and acting a certain way – well, it's not long before you've got yourself a newly minted jihadist, communist, or Nazi.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=126066
QUOTE: Intense hatred has a way of morphing inexorably into full-blown, epic madness. Indeed, hate is like spiritual plutonium, possessing bizarre, explosive and transformative qualities of which we are largely unaware. It is the means by which evil itself blooms on this earth, especially when rage is focused and magnified by a malignant worldview. ... whatever the toxic programming may be – Hutus demonizing Tutsis as "cockroaches and snakes," Turks accusing Armenians of being "enemy collaborators," Nazis likening Jews to "vermin" – for such outrageous and counter-intuitive falsehoods to be both believed and acted upon, those being indoctrinated must be kept in a very emotional state. (END QUOTE)
I have noted that when Roger engages RobN in rational debate, RobN does not answer those rational arguments or engage those valid, logical and factual points. This has been a source of constant frustration and puzzlement by Roger as well as others including myself. Instead, RobN comes back invariably with emotional statements and apocalyptic language, damning America and wishing evil on everyone, from the Office of the President to the entirety of the Western Nations, in great fits of hatred and temper. Somehow, his views keep him locked into a state of emotional termoil, and it acts upon him like Hitler did those under him where, He was always stirring up their emotions, and by so doing, his thoughts became their thoughts, his feelings became their feelings. It's brainwashing 101: Cause your intended victims to become upset, angry, emotionally riled up, and you have your hands on the control levers of their mind.
I can only suggest, in light of this understanding, that the Board act patiently and remain rational, not engaging in emotional reply. That will only feed his irrational and bizarre self-destructive, anti-US fever and rantings.
Sara.
-- March 2, 2010 3:10 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
All,
I can assure you that I am neither a Jihadist nor do I hate the America of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson; I love and long for that America. That America was a bastian of self-reliance and self-determination. The AmeriKa I abhor is the Amerika of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama. These men are guilty of implementing a neo-con fascist agenda at the behest of the banking elite. This Amerika bears no resemblance to the America that one its independence from Great Britian and defended herself with honor against Great Britain a second time in the war of 1812.
The hysteria the media reports concerning Iran and its nuclear ambition is state run propaganda in attempt to scare the Amerikan people to justify continuing perpetual war against an enigmatic enemy without definition. Since Iran is a soveregin nation it has a fundamental right to pursue nuclear weapons in an effort to protect itself from an agressive imperialistic Amerika currently occupying Iraq. It is well documented that Amerikan troops are guilty of raping Iraqi women; the occupiers have looted and stripped Iraq of its gold and artifacts which recently Amerika has promised to return archelogical artifacts it took illegally.
I believe the neo-con fascist agenda being implemented now in the middle east will ultimately fail in part because the Iranians are descendants of the great Persian Empire; I can assure you they are not going anywhere. Next, our monetary and fiscal policy in this country is as broken as our foreign policy. We can for so long export our debt to Asia in order to fund these aimless adventures into War. Once Asia turns off the money the boys will be coming home. Victory in Iraq has not occured and victory in Afghanistan is not any closer. Pakistan is distancing itself from the United States; all of this will will spell defeat the Amerikan imperialist.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 2, 2010 10:51 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
You say I am mixing up the mujahideen and taliban and I am apparently confused. According to wikipedia, in post soviet international fighters "At present the term "mujahideen" is sometimes used to describe insurgents groups (including Taliban and al-Qaeda) who are fighting NATO troops and the Military of Afghanistan and Pakistan."
I get the impression your definition is the one skewed. The mujahideen were freedom fighters when fighting the Soviets but now are classified as terrorist fighting against being occupied by AmeriKa. I submit you perspective is as broken as our foreign policy.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 2, 2010 10:57 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
All,
I have not posted an article in a while so I thought I would post this gem from December 14, 2009 concerning the war in Afghanistan:
Afghanistan Another Vietnam? You Bet Your Administration It Is, Obama!
Brian Doherty | December 14, 2009So says Foreign Policy mag, in this piece by Thomas H. Johnson and M. Chris Mason. Here's why:
Let's start with the obvious: There isn't the slightest possibility that the course laid out by Barack Obama in his Dec. 1 speech will halt or even slow the downward spiral toward defeat in Afghanistan. None. The U.S. president and his advisors labored for three months and brought forth old wine in bigger bottles. The speech contained not one single new idea or approach, nor offered any hint of new thinking about a conflict that everyone now agrees the United States is losing. Instead, the administration deliberated for 94 days to deliver essentially "more men, more money, try harder." It sounded ominously similar to Mikhail Gorbachev's "bloody wound" speech that led to a similar-sized, temporary Soviet troop surge in Afghanistan in 1986.....
The president offered three reasons why [Afghanistan now and Vietnam then] are different. And all are dead wrong. First, Obama noted that Afghanistan is being conducted by a "coalition" of 43 countries -- as if war by committee would magically change the outcome (a throwback to former President George W. Bush's "Iraq coalition" mathematics). The truth is, outside of a handful of countries, it's basically a coalition of pacifists. In fact, more foreign troops fought alongside the United States in Vietnam than are now actually fighting with Americans today. Only nine countries in today's 43-country coalition have more than 1,000 personnel there; nine others have 10 (yes, not even a dozen people) -- or fewer. And although Australia and New Zealand have sent a handful of excellent special operations troops to Afghanistan, only Britain, Canada, and France are providing significant forces willing to conduct conventional offensive military operations. That brings the coalition's combat-troop contribution to approximately 17,000. Most of the other 38 "partners" have strict rules prohibiting them from ever doing anything actually dangerous....
The president went on to assert that the Taliban are not popular in Afghanistan, whereas the Viet Cong represented a broadly popular nationalist movement with the support of a majority of the Vietnamese. But this is also wrong. Neither the Viet Cong then, nor the Taliban now, have ever enjoyed the popular support of more than 15 percent of the population....
The reality on the ground is that Afghanistan is Vietnam redux. Afghan President Hamid Karzai's regime is an utterly illegitimate, incompetent kleptocracy. The Afghan National Army (ANA) -- slotted to take over the conflict when the coalition pulls out -- will not even be able to feed itself in five years, much less turn back the mounting Taliban tide....
Most critically of all, Pakistan's reaction to Obama's speech was to order its top military intelligence service, the ISI, to immediately begin rebuilding and strengthening covert ties to the Afghan Taliban in anticipation of their eventual return to power, according to a highly placed Pakistani official. There will be no more genuine cooperation from Pakistan (if there ever was)....
http://reason.com/blog/2009/12/14/afghanistan-another-vietnam-yo
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 2, 2010 10:59 AM ∞
wrote:
Rob is making a lot of sense. We have to stop interfering in other people's business.
-- March 2, 2010 11:51 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Nice to see rational argumentation from you, RobN. Your words in italics below.
Rob N wrote:
I can assure you that I am neither a Jihadist nor do I hate the America of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson; I love and long for that America. That America was a bastian of self-reliance and self-determination. The AmeriKa I abhor is the Amerika of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.
When you say, "God Damn America" you are damning BOTH Americas, RobN. The first has not ceased to exist, and when you damn America, you lump the baby in with the bathwater, both of which you would throw out. STOP IT!
These men are guilty of implementing a neo-con fascist agenda at the behest of the banking elite. This Amerika bears no resemblance to the America that one its independence from Great Britian and defended herself with honor against Great Britain a second time in the war of 1812.
What you are saying is you believe each of these men to be Progressives, moving the country from being a center right country and instead moving it toward the left, and into Communism, government control and perhaps control by special interests/rich elites, instead of the people. This appears to be the concerns of the tea party movement, who do not take to ranting against America, but are mobilizing the grassroots of America to support the country from this internal attack against the sovereignty of her people and acting to defend the freedoms given to the country by its founders in the Supreme Law of the Land, The Constitution. I suggest you stop your inflammatory rhetoric and take up with them instead of acting anarchist and agreeing America should be destroyed.
The hysteria the media reports concerning Iran and its nuclear ambition is state run propaganda in attempt to scare the Amerikan people to justify continuing perpetual war against an enigmatic enemy without definition. Since Iran is a soveregin nation it has a fundamental right to pursue nuclear weapons in an effort to protect itself from an agressive imperialistic Amerika currently occupying Iraq.
Do you agree that the sovereign nation of Israel also has a right to use its nuclear weapons in its self defense against a hostile power.. such as Iran? The nuclear ambitions of Iran are in conflict with those rights of its earthly neighbors to exist. Iran has also threatened to destroy not only Israel, but America. Those threats are not propaganda by the West, they are statements from Iran. To ignore them and minimize them as innoculous is foolish when you are dealing with a power with nuclear weapons. It is not America which is "scaring" the American people with Iran's nuclear ambitions, it is Iran intentionally saying these powers (the US, Israel) will soon "be annhilated", be "wiped off the map" and no longer exist. Those are fighting words, and not to be taken lightly when spoken by a head of state seeking nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are powerful and in the right hands, distributed to suicide bombers in the USA, could cause havoc of unimaginable proportions. If they find a way to smuggle and cloak those devices from scrutiny (heroine and cocaine shipments manage to move across the borders all the time, could bomb making materials?), the US could indeed have its safety threatened. It is NOT an idle threat or state run propaganda as you allege. It is not an enigmatic enemy without definition either.. these are the same people supplying IEDs to kill US soldiers.. if they had the tools and ability to hit Israel or the US they would they not use it? The US is fully justified in defending itself.
It is well documented that Amerikan troops are guilty of raping Iraqi women; the occupiers have looted and stripped Iraq of its gold and artifacts which recently Amerika has promised to return archelogical artifacts it took illegally.
I did cover this at length in the last thread, however, rather than reiterating those arguments at length here, I would simply state that it is not now - nor ever has been in history - a policy of the US government to rape women or loot treasures. To impute to the current military service as a whole that character smear is fundamentally a flawed argument and goes against even SOME of your ravings about the government killing the troops "uselessly" - why care for the troops if they are all a bunch of wicked evil plundering lootists and rapists? Your arguments are so irrational they do not hold up. Within your area of living, be it urban or rural, you have within your community those who are offenders against law and order. Does that mean the entire community is wicked and should be punished and destroyed as you are calling for the destruction of the US and repudiation of its entire contingent of defending troops? No. It is irrational to say all men are wicked because of the sins of some. We weed out the offenders, and you should note who gave the archeological artifacts BACK.. AMERICA.. by your own statement. How can America be totally wicked looters and also giving the archeological artifacts back? Isn't that inconsistent? If America were of the character you say it possesses, they would be the looters and would not be seeking to find the plunder and give it back to its rightful owners. They are giving it back simply because it was ILLEGAL activity, not endorsed by the American government, and they are seeking to rectify the mistake. Same with the rape charges. You should rectify your mistakes as well and cease attacking the United States as though all that are within it are wicked Americans and none who are good. "Those that hate the righteous will be desolate".. (Ps 34:21) - you are indeed hating many who are righteous by your statements.
I believe the neo-con fascist agenda being implemented now in the middle east will ultimately fail in part because the Iranians are descendants of the great Persian Empire; I can assure you they are not going anywhere.
I believe if the Progressive Agenda for America and the world fails, it will be because of the mercy and help of God, and His using AMERICANS to rise up from within and replace those in government with people believing in the Old America and the Supreme Law of the Land, The Constitution, not due to some despotic and crazed dictator who is slaughtering his own people in another country, and claiming to do it in the name of God.
Next, our monetary and fiscal policy in this country is as broken as our foreign policy. We can for so long export our debt to Asia in order to fund these aimless adventures into War. Once Asia turns off the money the boys will be coming home.
Unsustainable spending has occurred under Obama. If we had continued on with Bush's policies, we would not have hit the debt wall for 200 more years. Not that it was not coming eventually, but it would not have been our generation facing it. The incredible increase in exporting the debt is a calculated strategy to rapidly collapse the system which is now in place and was outlined by two leftist economists, Cloward and Piven. The point is to take over the government of the US and impose a "fundamental transformation" upon America. This agenda must be stopped by Americans, outside forces cannot do so, including Iran.
Victory in Iraq has not occured and victory in Afghanistan is not any closer. Pakistan is distancing itself from the United States; all of this will will spell defeat the Amerikan imperialist.
I disagree with your assessment that Iraq has not been a victory. Even Obama has tried to paint the victory there as due to himself and his Administration instead of President Bush. The fact that the victory remains elusive in Afghanistan is not because the US forces are unable to win. It is because they are not given the ability to win, nor do they have someone directing them who is aiming at winning. Obama said he does not think of the goal in Afghanistan as winning. So victory is not possible under such a mentality. I pray for the American Forces for their safety and protection from such folly in policy and betrayal of the aims of war in fact.
===
Obama: Victory Not Goal in Afghanistan
From ABC News (via YouTube) and Fox News:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk7scgN-37E&feature=player_embedded
Obama: ‘Victory’ Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan
President Obama has put securing Afghanistan near the top of his foreign policy agenda, but "victory" in the war-torn country isn’t necessarily the United States’ goal, he said Thursday in a TV interview.
"I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur," Obama told ABC News.
The enemy facing U.S. and Afghan forces isn’t so clearly defined, he explained.
"We’re not dealing with nation states at this point. We’re concerned with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, Al Qaeda’s allies," he said. "So when you have a non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda, our goal is to make sure they can’t attack the United States." …
"We are confident that if we are assisting the Afghan people and improving their security situation, stabilizing their government, providing help on economic development … those things will continue to contract the ability of Al Qaeda to operate. And that is absolutely critical," Obama told ABC News…
Pressure from the public and opposition politicians is growing as soldiers’ bodies return home, and a poll released Thursday shows majorities in Britain, Germany and Canada oppose increasing their own troop levels in Afghanistan.
Europeans and Canadians are growing weary of the war — or at least their involvement in combat operations — even as Obama is shifting military resources to Afghanistan away from Iraq.
The United States, which runs the NATO-led force, has about 59,000 troops in Afghanistan — nearly double the number a year ago — and thousands more are on the way. There are about 32,000 other international troops in the country…
The leaders of the largest contributors to the coalition find themselves having to justify both their reasons for deploying troops and their management of the war effort…
===
And yet, as we noted at the time, almost exactly a year ago Mr. Obama was singing a very different tune.
From the Associated Press:
===
Obama says Afghanistan ‘a war that we have to win’
By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press WriterJuly 15, 2008
WASHINGTON – Contending that the U.S. is not pursuing a sound strategy for keeping Americans safe, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Tuesday that fighting al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan would be his top priority after ending the war in Iraq.
"This is a war that we have to win," Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery at the International Trade Center in Washington…
===
Of course Mr. Obama was campaigning for the Presidency back in July.
Also remember how the Democrats, including of course Mr. Obama, always claimed that we should be concentrating on Afghanistan. And, just as importantly, we should have more of our allies fighting alongside us in the war.
Finally the Democrats have now gotten both of their purported wishes. The right war in the right place – with plenty of other Western countries helping us.
And yet, look at how poorly things are going. Any minute now our ‘allies’ will turn tail and pull out. Which will give Mr. Obama an excuse to do the same.
Which, come to think of it, was surely the Democrat plan all along.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-victory-not-goal-in-afghanistan
-- March 2, 2010 1:19 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
Group A, B, C, D, E and F, is called GREEN and are all against X and that happens in one timeframe.
Next timeframe, group F evolved into supressing group A, B, C an D, an Group F is called RED.
You are saying RED is GREEN.
Mujaheedin and Taliban are two different entites.
Yes Rob N, you are very confused, throwing generalities around, and say whatever will fit your Neo Con Nazi ?? agenda.
-- March 2, 2010 9:40 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
Since you are a Bush supporter I will lump you in with the rest of the neo-con fascist running this country. I ran accross the following quote from then President George W. Bush concerning the Patriot Act that as a supporter I am sure you can defend. I am sure you remember the Patriot Act that strips American citizens of their right to privacy amongst other viloations.
Capitol Hill Blue: “I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”
“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 3, 2010 9:50 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
Still not confused or am I mixing entities. My point is Roger in American Foreign Policy labels change in an effort to fit an Amerikan imperalistic agenda. During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan the spin doctors latched upon the name Mujahideen and called them freedom fighters and funded them against communist agression; eventually the Soviets withdrew.
Now, that we are in Afghanistan as the agressor our media in their often inconsistent manner does not use the term Mujahideen to describe those that fight against the U.S. they use the term Taliban. My argument and supported in part by wikipedia in the post Soviet era inside Afghanistan the difference between Mujahideen and Taliban is non-existent. In my view, if these Afghan rebels were freedom fighters during the Soviet invasion of their country I consider them freedom fighters during the Amerikan invasion and occupation.
The people of Afghanistan do not want the neo-con fascist U.S. military inside their country and they do not want the puppet Karzai as their prime minister. Call the resistence Mujahideen or Taliban the name does not matter they are fighting for the liberation and freedom of Afghanistan.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 3, 2010 10:02 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
You really hate America. Or as you prefer to write it Amerika...with a K.
Why don't you move away from this supressing country, and get the freedoms you are looking for?
If this place is such a Nazi place, then go somewhere else, go somewhere where the US will not bother you.
There are a lot of wonderful places just waiting for you, Zimbabwe, Kamerun, Laos, Kahzakstan, N.Korea, Wenezuela, or you can probably do it on a budget and just go down to Mexico, there are a lot of options out there that will make you happy.
You're not solving anything sitting here in this supressing country, and bitching how bad it is.
Do something that will make you happy.
Stop whining and pack your bags.
-- March 3, 2010 10:40 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
I do hate this AmeriKa with its neo-con fascist agenda as it invades and loots Iraq and Afghanistan. Watching the passage of the Patriot Act, in my view, has resulted in a Constitutional crisis that has not been dealt with. We have a government that supports a monetary and fiscal policy not good for the country. Injecting to much liquidity into our systen (this liquidity printed out of thin air) will cause massive inflation and a devaluation of the U.S. Dollar. Both Bush and Obama have violated the constitution by going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan without a formal decleration and they both have violated the Wars Power Act.
Solutions to these and other problems are not solved by leaving. If I chose at somepoint to leave the country I already have that place in mind. For now, I choose to stay in this AmeriKa and make my cause for a return to the American pinciples of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson. In the meantime, I will continue to fly my flag upside down in order to call attention to the distress this country is in.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 3, 2010 11:22 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Rob N;
RobN, President Bush is not the issue here. It doesn't do any good rehashing someone's views who is no longer in office. It is beating a dead horse. What we need to see is the ISSUES we are facing. As Glenn Beck said, if we don't see the issues, if history is lost, then we will repeat it. If you take just fifteen minutes of your time and watch these two segments, it will change your outlook completely.
Segment 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_bMnzhMLk&feature=player_embeddedSegment 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bVJaSYmItM&feature=player_embeddedIt would be best if you watched the entire five segments from 03-02-10, of which these two are a part, for context, but these two should give you the most basic understanding that we are not dealing with Left versus Right, but UP versus DOWN. And you are right, we need LIMITED government as the Constitution dictates. The Democrats who were worried about the trampling of Constitutional rights under Bush were right.. and the tea partiers today who are equally worried about the growth of government and trashing of the Constitution today are right. Beck brings out that the Patriot Act had SUNSETS placed into it so they would EXPIRE. But the Progressive Democrats just now have removed them, trampling forever those rights that the Progressive Republicans took "for a little while" and while in crisis . The answer is NOT to wish for the destruction of the United States as that fellow in clip one (at the end) does. He is a Communist and calling for the death of America.. and Communist Totalitarian takeover.. and I think you are following that reasoning instead of trying to help bring the US back to America's real base. All I am saying is don't be a destructive force against America, don't join the enemies and try and work to destroy her. What will you REPLACE her with? Roger is right.. go live there if you think you are going to "win" by doing that. You won't. You will bequeath to the next generation totalitarianism, either under a religious fascist regime like Iran (in the past Hitler) or a Communist regime and their "utopia" of "workers of the world unite" (go live in Russia, China, Cuba, etc). It doesn't much matter which horse gets to the endgame of total government control first, Communist or Fascist. It is still total government control. That is where your road is heading. Listen to the segments, all five if you can. This is history you have to get in order to see the real enemy. It isn't your fellow American citizens, at least not those for the Constitution and LIMITED government, as most Americans are. It's the Communists, the Fascists and the Progressives shoving America toward total government and trampling the rights set out in the Constitution of we the people.
Sara.
-- March 3, 2010 12:16 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
PM: Iraqi dinar re-evaluation has to do with economic conditions
February 28, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the process to re-evaluate the Iraqi dinar has to do with economic conditions that have to be strengthened.
“The Iraqi dinar has all the reasons to grow stronger thanks to an increase in revenues and development of the economy,” Maliki said in response to some questions through the National Information Center.
“The government would not rush matters but would rather work on finding all the guarantees to render this measure a success. The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) is currently entrusted with drawing up a study on the whole issue and would give its decision soon,” said the Iraqi premier.
The Iraqi dinar’s exchange rate is suffering from low value against foreign currencies as a result of decades of wars and economic embargo that brought the local currency’s exchange rate to the rock bottom from three dinars per dollar in the late 1970s and 1980s to 3,000 dinars per dollar after the 1990 invasion of Kuwait, followed by a 13-year crippling sanctions regime.
The exchange rate fell even more after 2003 to reach 1170 dinars per dollar due to the CBI’s policy of daily auction, in effect for more than five years now.
The policy was lambasted by several economists on the grounds that these auctions do not give the real value of the country’s local currency.
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127789
It is my understanding that Mr. Maliki could have RVed the currency and given a real value to it for a long time now. He is fundamentally and ideologically opposed to the measure, and this is his merely pretending publicly that he might be open to it because he knows it will benefit the PEOPLE of his country and they would like it, so he must feign that he will do something that helps them and meets their goals. If he gets re-elected, he will keep a tight fist over the people, not RVing the currency, and keeping them in poverty. Then he can bypass the use of the currency and exchange oil for the goods "Iraq" needs. This bypasses prosperity to the people, and keeps a tight government control over prosperity which he and those with him currently hold. They remain rich, the people remain poor, simple enough. He HAS NOT and WILL NOT revalue. He could have and has refused to do so for many years. If the Iraqi people believe his statements, above, that he is in the least open to the suggestion of a REAL VALUE for the currency, they will get more of what they have had all along economically. As he says, above, "The government would not rush matters"... they will put the idea of a RV into the deep freeze if Maliki wins. Maliki has learned from Obama.. promise the people anything they want.. then give them what you want them to have instead. It used to be called lying, and was frowned upon. Politics as usual?
Sara.
-- March 3, 2010 1:03 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
If I were Iraqi and were to vote, I would vote for Allawi.
Iraq, Iran and the Premiership
Posted on: Mon, Mar 01, 2010Leader of the Supreme Islamic Council in Iraq (SICI) Ammar Al-Hakim and radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Al-Sadr are said to have received assurances that Iran will not prefer former Iraqi PM Ayad Allawi to any other Shiite candidate for the Iraqi Premiership. The following 380-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Sadr Movement reacted and what PM Nouri Al-Maliki is doing to block the way for Allawi to take over the Premiership.
http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq_Iran_and_the_Premiership/1095
A bit of background on him:
===
Born in 1945, Allawi was born into a well-to-do Shia Muslim merchant family. Shiite Muslims make up two-thirds of Iraq; the remaining third are predominately Sunnis, although a small number of Kurds also occupy the country. Allawi came by his interest in politics through his family, particularly his grandfather, who helped with the negotiations to release Iraq from British control, and his father, a member of the Iraqi parliament. During his college years, while studying medicine in Iraq, Allawi met Saddam Hussein and the two joined the Ba'ath party, which gained prominence in the mid-1960s through its advocacy of secular rather than Muslim governments. Allawi rose quickly in the party's ranks, and was an active supporter of Ba'athist activities even when the new party was banned. Although the initial goals of the Ba'ath party focused on setting up socialist, secular governments in the Middle East, those aims soon changed, particularly after Hussein took control in the early 1970s.
In 1971 Allawi moved to Great Britain, where he continued his medical education. While in school in London, he remained active in Iraqi politics, and was president of the Iraqi Student Union in Europe. Returning to Iraq following graduation, he established a career as a neurologist and also resumed a prominent place in the Ba'ath party. He soon became disillusioned with the party, however, due to the direction in which Hussein was taking it, and he resigned from the party in 1975. Although Hussein pressured Allawi to rejoin the Ba'ath party, Allawi refused and left the country in self-imposed exile. Returning to London, he became a Ba'athist target, and in February of 1978 he was attacked in his home by an assassin Hussein presumably sent after him. Attacking Allawi with an ax in the dead of night while the former Ba'athist was in bed, the assassin then left, believing Allawi to be dead. Although wounded critically in the head, right leg, and chest, Allawi survived the attack and spent almost a year in the hospital recovering.
Dedicated to Toppling Hussein Regime
Even before his release from the hospital following the attack, Allawi started a movement to organize other exiles from the Ba'athist regime into the Iraqi National Accord (INA), his ultimate aim to remove Hussein from power. While primary supporters of the INA were the British government, the organization was also covertly supported by Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and the CIA. Allawi's group was made up primarily of former military personnel who had defected from Hussein's dictatorship. The INA gained in power, and in 1996 the group's leadership believed the organization was strong enough to mount a coup against Hussein. Unfortunately, the attempt proved unsuccessful, and the INA leadership was forced to rethink its approach.
Before the INA could initiate a second coup attempt, the United States initiated its War on Terror in response to the attacks on New York City and Washington, D.C., on September 11, 2001. Eventually focusing its efforts on the potential threat posed by Hussein due to his link with terrorist organizations, in March of 2003 the Unites States managed to topple Hussein's dictatorship. The U.S. government then set up a Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to work with the Iraqi people to establish an interim government in preparation for bringing about democratic elections. Allawi was invited to sit on the CPA council charged with the selection of an interim prime minister scheduled to take power on June 30, 2004. In May of 2004 the council chose Allawi to be the interim leader. "Even though he is a secular Shiite, Allawi won the tacit approval of the top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani," Alissa J. Rubin and Maggie Farley reported in the Houston Chronicle Online. The journalists deemed this "a crucial step since Shiites are a majority of the population," and noted that the choice of Allawi was also due to the fact that his organization, the INA, "has also worked closely with Kurds and Sunni Muslims."
http://www.answers.com/topic/iyad-allawi
I believe he would RV the Dinar and the people of Iraq would prosper and be in freedom under his hand.
Sara.
-- March 3, 2010 1:15 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
A part of the MSM finally concedes the Victory that has happened in Iraq:
===
Jon Meacham on Newsweek Cover: "Victory at Last" The Emergence of a Democratic Iraq
Tuesday, March 2, 2010
Posted by HotAirPunditPIC: Newsweek cover: That would be Bush in front of the Mission Accomplished banner...
Meacham: "What General Petraeus did and what President Bush came to, does seem to have worked"...
SEE:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789//vp/35660494#35660494
Meacham:"Our reporting has shown..That in fact there is a level of stability...We did fight a war in Iraq, which virtually has not been discussed, and what General Petraeus did and what President Bush came to, does seem to have worked.. What the reporting shows is that enough people got tired of an insurgency in which there was no way out, even for the insurgency"
http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/jon-meacham-on-newsweek-cover-victory.html
-- March 3, 2010 3:51 PM ∞
Steve wrote:
Well I am well pleased that god gave me a scroll button
it has been very usefull a lot lately, LOL-- March 3, 2010 9:57 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
What ARE you?
I took this quiz and lo and behold.. I am not what I kinda thought I was.
This quiz shows you if you are a Liberal, Conservative, Statist or Libertarian.
Very cool.. do try it.
Rob N.. I would be interested to know what you are, if you would share the results of the quiz.
http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php
I thought I was a conservative.
Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 12:19 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger and Board;
You have GOT to see these recent NASA images of the earth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1254834/Nasa-reveals-detailed-images-Earth.html
They are "the most detailed views of Earth to date."
Awe inspiring, especially when you've been right THERE.Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 12:27 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
Whoaaaa, beautiful..kind of put our problems in perspective.
R
-- March 4, 2010 3:06 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
Since you worship President Bush as non-fallible on Iraq I thought you might find those comments he made about our beloved Constitution. These comments also cements my view that Bush and Obama are both neo-con fascist.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 4, 2010 11:12 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Rob N;
The MSM pushed President Bush, HARD, on everything. That he snapped at them is likely inevitable, and I would never have wished his place for the incredible religious persecution he had to endure at their atheistic and non-godfearing hands. I have never seen such disrespect shown to any President, and so undeserved. That he stuck to his principles and did not waver in spite of their hatred and false accusations will be rewarded by God another time. As I posted, the MSM is finally admitting the victory in Iraq. Reality will eventually win out.. in this world and the next, may the chips fall where they may. However, the fact was, he did go beyond the Constitution.. with the Patriot Act, to keep America safe. It was intended to be temporary, a fix until the crisis was over. The Democrats have now cemented it forever as permanent and it is against the Constitution and its provisions for the people, I admit. I still believe President Bush did well, and is not a fascist as you allege. Fascism is total government control by religious zealots, like in Iran or was under Hitler's fascist (and religious) ideology of "survival of the fittest" taken to the extreme of being a Master Race (Hitler's race, of course). No true fascist could ever give up power. That Bush did, in accordance with the dictates of the Constitution, shows he never was what you allege he was. You never understood him, nor have you understood the Armed Forces which protect you from tyranny every day. You bought into a charicature those on the left wanted you to believe, in order that they might seize more power and shove their radical agenda of more government control down all of America's throats. President Bush was not a threat to America, he loved it and tried his best to defend it. Was he perfect? No. But he was a lot more for America and for Americans and their interests than the current direction the blind hatred whipped up toward President Bush has resulted in. Would this video have been necessary to make under President Bush?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxg7LmlEQg
Yet this is where America has gone due to the blind hatred and false rantings of such as espouse your "fascist" lies against this God-fearing man whose hope was to serve honorably and keep the America he loved safe from terrorism. An aim, I might point out, that he managed to accomplish.
Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 1:12 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
RobN;
On your use of pejoratives..
Obviously, I take exception to your saying I "worship" any man. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a Christian (follower of Christ).
As for your fascist pejorative, I found this on wikipedia and think it appropriate:Fascist as epithet
Main article: Fascist (epithet)In political discourse, the term "fascist" is commonly used to denote authoritarian tendencies, but is often used as a pejorative epithet by adherents to both left-wing and right-wing politics to denigrate those with opposing viewpoints. George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’". Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times".
(end quote)
I agree with this and think you are using the word only as a term of denigration and a pejorative, perhaps synonymous with bully, but not in any substantive intellectual sense. I also note on the page this statement, "No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any such definition.[27]"
So, while I have seen your use of the term as a disparaging remark against President Bush as though a) he were a dictator trying to seize power or b) a "bully" because he made a stand against terrorism and tried to do what he felt was right in light of 911.. or c) a person with religious convictions many felt would be imposed upon them as Iran does its citizens, yet it has not been with any substance that these accusations have been levelled at President Bush.
Obviously, a dictator would not cede power, and Bush has. Bush's implementing the Patriot Act was with sunsets and as only a temporary measure, so as far as Bush was concerned and actually came to pass under his Administration, was not doing a permanent change or violation of the US Constitution. His making a strong stand against terrorism and taking the fight to those most likely to strike again has justification.. The Saddam tapes, remember.. Saddam was saying he would use WMD against America as soon as he could get his hands on them and the experts say he was one year from a nuclear bomb.
QUOTE:
Additionally, concerning the 36 million captured pages of documentation, when it was put on the net for public translation, it was removed after they found quote, "detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb." As The New York Times confirmed in their issue November 3, 2006, Saddam had complete plans for a nuclear weapon and was in the process of procuring parts when the US removed him. Quote: "nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away." [63]Additionally, tapes with Saddam speaking on them also surfaced and certain sinister remarks Saddam made on the tapes were translated which showed that he threatened to use WMD on Washington, DC. In the article , "Saddam Translator: ABC Reinterpreted Tapes" dated Feb. 17th 2006, the FBI translator who supplied the 12 hours of Saddam Hussein audiotapes excerpted by ABC's "Nightline" says the network discarded his translations and went with a less threatening version of the Iraqi dictator's comments. In the "Nightline" version of the 1996 recording, Saddam predicts that Washington, D.C., would be hit by terrorists. But he adds that Iraq would have nothing to do with the attack. Tierney says, however, that what Saddam actually said was much more sinister. "He was discussing his intent to use chemical weapons against the United States and use proxies so it could not be traced back to Iraq," he told Hannity. In a passage not used by "Nightline," Tierney says Saddam declares: "Terrorism is coming. ... In the future there will be terrorism with weapons of mass destruction. What if we consider this technique, with smuggling?" [64]
Concerning additional tapes uncovered where Saddam is being briefed by his Son-in-law, Lieutenant General Hussein, ABC News reports his words to Saddam Hussein: "Sir, I would not be speaking so openly if it were not for your excellency's and Mr. Tariq's clarification and statement that we produced biological weapons. We did not reveal all that we have. Secondly, they don't know about our work in the domain of missiles. With regard to the issue of the chemical, sir, ... In the chemical, sir, they have a problem far bigger than the biological, bigger than the biological. Not the type of the weapons, not the volume of the materials we imported, not the volume of the production we told them about, not the volume of use. None of this was correct. They don't know any of this. We did not reveal the volume of the chemical weapons that we had produced. We did not reveal the type of the chemical weapons. We did not reveal the truth about the volume of the imported materials. In the nuclear, sir, in the biological, we also disagree with them. As for the nuclear, we say we have disclosed everything but no. We have undeclared problems in nuclear as well, and I believe that they know. There are teams working with no one knowing about some of them. I go back to the question of whether we should reveal everything or continue to be silent... I would say it is in our interest not to reveal. Not just out of fear of disclosing the technology we achieved, or to hide it for future work... [65]
Another of the documents show that Saddam ordered suicide attacks on the US, which then, within a year, could have become nuclear. In the article "Saddam Ordered Suicide Attacks on U.S. Targets" dated April 6th 2006, it states, "A newly translated document from Saddam Hussein's intelligence files indicates that the Iraqi dictator ordered suicide attacks against U.S. targets six months before the 9/11 attacks." [66]
Also, there was another document discovered proving that Saddam was intending to attack London in this article "Saddam was training terrorists for attacks in London" dated March 27th 2006...
http://www.conservapedia.com/Operation_Iraqi_Freedom
Though Bush was seen as a "bully" for not sitting back and letting the terrorists continue unhampered in their goals, I believe history will prove that his was the right decision.
As for the last point, the imposition of religious views on others, all law is the imposion of someone's views for the collective good. We think stealing and killing are wrong, and so we make laws to punish and prevent those issues. They are both in the Ten Commandments and religious laws have served mankind well in keeping safe and sane societies. It is merely WHICH set of "religious" laws are to be enforced. Would those advocating against any "religious" laws repeal those against murder and stealing because the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal"?? The issue here is not the standing of religion in law, it is the imposition of wrong ideology from any source, such as was so under Hitler with his views of "survival of the fittest" and that meaning there was a "Master Race" - his. President Bush was a God-fearing man, imperfect, for sure, but definitely not pretending and claiming to believe in God while actually being an agnostic in practice. His obvious and real faith concerned those with no religious affiliation, but Bush never used power to bring about crushing totalitarian religious rule over them such as you find in Iran. So, as far as I can see, he was not a fascist as you say he was.
Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 2:30 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Back to Iraq and the Dinar..
I had posted this earlier.. but I repost it again to support the idea I put forwad that if Maliki gets in, he will just use OIL REVENUE to "solve" the problems.. not RV the currency. That bypasses any prosperity for the endentured servants of Iraq, who will continue to be in poverty under his economic vision. Only RV puts the money directly into the people's hands and allows them to buy anything from out of the country with a truly valued Dinar.
===
Oil revenues optimization would solve Iraq’s problems – Maliki
February 28, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the optimization of Iraq’s oil revenues would solve all the country’s problems and repay all foreign debts.
“Contracts with global oil corporations and conglomerates can also help repay all compensations for some Arab and Gulf states and meet all reconstruction obligations,” Maliki said in response to questions through the National Information Center.
Since 2003, Iraq has been seeking to have its $120 billion worth of foreign debts accumulated during the former regime’s time written off. The war-ravaged country, however, managed to get nearly half of this sum - $55 billion owed to the Paris Club of creditor nations – dropped.
Still Iraq owes a sum of $21 billion to some Arab countries, including $21 billion to the Gulf states - $15 billion to Saudi Arabia and $6 billion to Kuwait, over which negotiations are underway.
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127795
NOTE no mention of RV here.. it is all using oil to pay for things.
The contracts are not with revalued Dinar currency in mind, but using oil to pay for things directly, bypassing the Dinar/people issue entirely.
This is how it is done NOW at this day... this same policy continuing on for the Iraqi people.
It means they don't get to use the proper value of their Dinar to buy outside goods.
Without proper trade using the true valuation of the Dinar, the people will remain unable to afford anything their country does not produce.
And Iraq does not produce a lot for their own people.
Instead, the prosperity and power remain in few hands.. and Maliki would remain king over them through it.Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 2:46 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
As for Rob N. Reason and logic will not work. Fixed ideas, and self serving circuits in his mind have overpowered his persona, thus any logic. You will never see a reflection, after thought, or self criticism.
I have seen a gallant effort from your side, directing Rob N. to where he can get info, where to look, where to find stuff, but he is completely unable to observe.
You do all the effort of giving him long pages with info, and your own reasoning.
The only response back is a one or two liner from him, repeating his old regurgitated "Neo Con Faschist AmeriKa" crap.
You put in all this effort, he doesn't look at it, at best he scan's it, he doesn't have more attention units than that, he doesn't comprehend it, have no will, ambition or desire to do so either. He is all set, how the world works.
His response to you, is an affair that is a matter of seconds.
Rob N. is living in his own dark universe.
To turn that guy into a responding individual, would involve an effort that would include his whole person, an issue that is beyond this blog.
His political and economic view is only a small part of his spectrum, going beyond that, and you will find a horror story.
He is an expert of trying to suck you in, but his reasoning reminds me very much about the Monthy Python scetch, about the guy that bought an argument.
(Its probably on You Tube, it is hillarious, check it out)
Its an endless:
-"Yes it is"
-"No it isn't"Rob N. probbly have been this way the whole time, but at the time he was into Dinars, he was "with us" , and supressed his way of being, once out of the Dinars, he probably feel that he can let lose.
Hi creativity is very impaired, and he goes by routine and circuits.
Once out of the Dinar, he still are into the Dinars. The old circuits are controlling this guy, and he is unable to move on. He lives in a hypnotic state. He's been clicking on the T&B for years, and even after he sold out his Dinars, the old circuit of clicking onto T&B is as real as ever before.
Sara, you are doing a gallantly effort, but this guy will not respond to anything.
The help he needs, is of a different kind.
As of the Dinars in general.
Waiting game as usually, but with some exciting stuff coming up Mars the 7th.
Lot of specualtion on this issue.
Will the Iraqis be a happy community now, or will it lead to civil war, as some have predicted.
I doubt the civil war scenario, it's just not in the cards.
One thing though that have happened that is a positive thing for Iraq is the political scene have moved from sectarien to political. There are a lot of alliances forming between Sunni and Shiite parties.
I think even if there is a lot of speculation in what parties or government will form now, after the election, the main issue is that the population is expecting a big change, and whoever gets into power, better pay the piper.
Usually after an election, there is a bit of euphoria in the new administration, and some excitement of taking over the rudder, (usually lasts about a couple of months....judging from past elections here in the US).
That is usually the time when the winning pary are consolidating the victory, and are busy appointing persons in key positions.
If there is an agenda that the new powers have been pushing , they especially use this time to get a head start on it ( Obama pushing health care reform almost before he took the oath of office)
The election will be a very interesting event, but as interesting, will be to see what powers will emerge after the winning party (or parties) have done all their appointments to the different offices.
From the election to a functional government ( hopefully....it is Iraq after all) the month after will be very interesting to watch.
R
-- March 4, 2010 4:27 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Thanks, Roger. You are, of course, correct. And I did like that Monty Python one.. you know, the guy taking his bird back for a refund.. "Yes it is." "No, its not."
As for Iraq, it is very exciting the elections and all.. I also do not think that they will have problems with forming the government or governing. It is just whether they will do it with a RV or without, from our perspective. If Maliki gets in, I think the prospect of an RV is very remote. Changes will be small and Iraqis will not share in the prosperity for some time to come.
Today between 600 and 700 thousand of the security personnel turned out for early voting, and there were some attacks, killing some of them.
===
Iraq blasts kill 17 as early voting begins
Baghdad, Mar 4, AP:A string of blasts across the Iraqi capital targeting voters killed 17 people Thursday, authorities said, ratcheting up fear in an already tense city as many Iraqis cast early ballots ahead of Sunday’s nationwide parliamentary elections.
Insurgents have repeatedly threatened to use violence to disrupt the elections, which will help determine who will oversee the country as US forces go home and whether the country can overcome its deep sectarian divides. Two of Thursday’s blasts hit voters outside polling stations.“Terrorists wanted to hamper the polls, thus they started to blow themselves up in the streets,” said Deputy Interior Minister Ayden Khalid Qader.
Many of the victims were believed to be security personnel — the main group to cast their ballots during early voting since they will be working on election day.Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are expected to take part in Thursday’s early voting, a one-day session designed for those who might not be able to get to the polls on Sunday, when the rest of the country votes.
The United Nations Assistance Mission to Iraq estimated that between 600,000 and 700,000 people could vote Thursday. About 19 million of Iraq’s estimated 28 million people are eligible to vote in the elections, which will see Iraqi expatriates cast ballots in 16 countries around the world.
Three deadly blasts in Baghdad rattled those taking part in early voting.
In the first, a rocket killed seven people in Hurriya. The second attack took place in the Mansour when a bomber detonated an explosive vest near a group of soldiers lining up to vote. In the third blast, another suicide bomber blew himself up near policemen waiting to vote.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/56231/iraq-blasts-kill-17-early.html
-- March 4, 2010 5:03 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Drawdown from Iraq on schedule, U.S. says
Published: March. 4, 2010WASHINGTON, March 4 (UPI) -- Pre-election violence in Iraq will not derail U.S. military plans to start pulling combat forces out of the country this year, Pentagon officials said.
Geoff Morrell, a spokesman for the U.S. Defense Department, said U.S. military plans in Iraq were on schedule despite the violence.
"Neither this attack nor any of the previous attempts to derail the electoral process and to destabilize the government have been or will be successful, nor do we anticipate that it will derail our responsible drawdown of forces in Iraq," said Morrell.
The U.S. military has around 96,000 soldiers in Iraq who will stay on duty in the weeks after March 7 elections. Once the post-election situation is stabilized, Washington will move to bring the troop level to 50,000 by Sept. 1.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/03/04/Drawdown-from-Iraq-on-schedule-US-says/UPI-33561267730042/
-- March 4, 2010 5:17 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Senate: US has stake in Iraq elections
Mar 4 2010WASHINGTON (AFP) – Nearly seven years after the US-led invasion of Iraq, the US Senate approved Thursday a symbolic bill vowing to help make the country's upcoming parliamentary elections a success.
In the non-binding measure, the Senate also "reaffirms the United States' strong commitment to building a robust, long-term partnership with Iraq that strengthens Iraq's security, stability, economy, and democracy."
And it "recognizes the United States' clear and enduring interest in partnering with the people of Iraq in building a stable, representative, successful, democratic state."
Democratic Senator John Kerry and Republican Senator John McCain co-wrote the resolution, which passed unanimously.
The measure urges US President Barack Obama's administration to make Iraq's March parliamentary elections a success and calls on Iraqi political parties not to cast doubt on the vote's legitimacy or fan sectarian flames.
In a thinly-veiled message to Iran, it urges Iraq's neighbors "to refrain from exercising malign and destabilizing interference in Iraq's internal affairs; and to allow the people of Iraq to determine their own future."
The resolution also praises Iraq's people for "the courage they have shown; the sacrifices they have endured and the hard-won gains they have made in fighting terrorism, finding peace and building democracy."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100304/pl_afp/iraqvoteuspolitics
-- March 4, 2010 5:24 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq voting begins
Salam Faraj, Agence France-Presse
Published: Thursday, March 04, 2010Sunni Arabs were expected to turn out in force to cast their ballots, in stark contrast to the last general election in 2005 which they mostly boycotted in protest at the rise to power of the nation's long-oppressed Shiite majority.
That boycott deepened the sectarian divide and heightened violence which has only eased in the past two years.
A Shiite is almost certain to take the top job of prime minister.
Shiites were united in the 2005 polls but this time round are divided, a development hailed by some as a move away from rigid sectarian politics.
Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, the Shiite head of the State of Law Alliance, a religious coalition with a secular outlook that includes Sunni tribal sheikhs, said on Wednesday he was "certain" of poll victory.
His rivals include former premier Iyad Allawi, who heads the Iraqiya list, a secular coalition which has strong support in Sunni areas.
Also seeking the top job are Ahmed Chalabi, a former deputy premier once favoured but now loathed by Washington; Adel Abdel Mahdi, the country's Shiite vice president, and Baqer Jaber Solagh, the finance minister.
Chalabi, Mahdi and Solagh all represent the Iraq National Alliance, the main Shiite religious list.
Under the Iraqi electoral system no one party will emerge with the 163 seats needed to form a government on its own and the ensuing horse-trading to form a governing coalition could be protracted.
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2641461&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NP_Top_Stories+%28National+Post+-+Top+Stories%29
Under the Iraqi electoral system no one party will emerge with the 163 seats needed to form a government on its own and the ensuing horse-trading to form a governing coalition could be protracted.
Chances are, the process will take some time to consolidate after the electoral process.. likely longer than over here.
Sara.
-- March 4, 2010 5:37 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Another of those conspiracy theories bites the dust..
The Iraq war really wasn't planned from all eternity.. but was a result of perceived threat to the nation.
It wasn't lying at all.. and the MSM was complicit in perpetrating and perpetuating these false accusations.
They will have a lot to answer for.Sara.
===
Rove on Iraq: Without W.M.D. Threat, Bush Wouldn’t Have Gone to War
By PETER BAKER
March 3, 2010Karl Rove, the chief political adviser to President George W. Bush and architect of his two successful campaigns for the White House, says in a new memoir that his former boss probably would not have invaded Iraq had he known there were no weapons of mass destruction there.
Mr. Rove adamantly rejects allegations that the administration deliberately lied about the presence of weapons in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. But he acknowledges that the failure to find them badly damaged Mr. Bush’s presidency, and he blames himself for not countering the narrative that “Bush lied,” calling it “one of the biggest mistakes of the Bush years.”
The new book by Mr. Rove, who served as senior adviser and deputy chief of staff in the White House, offers the most expansive account yet of the Bush presidency by one of the people most responsible for it. Addressing some of the most controversial and consequential moments of Mr. Bush’s eight years in power, Mr. Rove takes responsibility for the widely criticized Air Force One flyover after Hurricane Katrina and writes of his secret fear of being indicted in the C.I.A. leak case.
For the most part, his book, “Courage and Consequence: My Life as a Conservative in the Fight,” is an unapologetic defense of Mr. Bush and his presidency, and takes aim at Democrats, the news media and others for what he describes as hypocrisy, deceit and vanity.
What many historians may focus on is his description of the war in Iraq, its origins and consequences. While many have accused the administration of drumming up a case for war on the back of false intelligence about Mr. Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, or W.M.D., Mr. Rove maintains that the White House genuinely believed the reports, and pointed to Democrats who accepted them as valid as well.
Most intriguing is his rumination on what would have happened had Mr. Bush known the truth. While the opportunity to bring democracy to the Middle East as a bulwark against Islamic extremism “justified the decision to remove Saddam Hussein,” Mr. Rove makes clear that from the start, at least, the suspected weapons and their perceived threat were the primary justification for war.
“Would the Iraq War have occurred without W.M.D.? I doubt it,” he writes. “Congress was very unlikely to have supported the use-of-force resolution without the W.M.D. threat. The Bush administration itself would probably have sought other ways to constrain Saddam, bring about regime change, and deal with Iraq’s horrendous human rights violations.”
He adds: “So, then, did Bush lie us into war? Absolutely not.” But Mr. Rove said the White House had only a “weak response” to the harmful allegation, which became “a poison-tipped dagger aimed at the heart of the Bush presidency.”
“So who was responsible for the failure to respond?” he writes. “I was. I should have stepped forward, rung the warning bell and pressed for full-scale response. I didn’t. Preoccupied with the coming campaign and the pressure of the daily schedule in the West Wing, I did not see how damaging this assault was.”
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/03/rove-on-iraq-without-w-m-d-threat-bush-wouldnt-have-gone-to-war/?hp
-- March 4, 2010 5:49 PM ∞
Alex A wrote:
hello im new to this discussion i purchased dinars awhile ago and was wondering if anyone could tell me what is exactly going on with it. i go to a currency converter often and i saw that the iraq government will be taking three zeros off of there current currency but it will not change anything? hope some one can help thanks
-Alex A-- March 4, 2010 10:35 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Alex A,
One of the first things you shoul do in orer to get the official exchange rate is to go to the Central Banks of Iraq,s official site and check the rate there.
All other rates wherever you see them, stem from the CBI's exchange rate settings.
If you are looking at a Midle Easts Bank in a country close by, you are getting just that, THAT banks exchange rate, an that rate can differ more or less from the official rate, this is normal bank practice though, the bank get the profit in spread between the CBIs quoted price, and the Midle East banks quoted price.
If you check how much you will have to squeese out of your wallet to get a million or so here in the US, you need to go to Dinar dealers, and they have their own quotes, and of course, keep the spread.
So Alex A, you can go to a number of sources to get a quote on the Iraqi Dinar, this has in some instances led to some confusion, but if you remember that the CBI is the only offical institution that can set the Iraqi Dinar, then you know where all the other sources are coming from.
All the other sources are not necessarily illegit, they have to get a spread in order to make business, and survive, but you know now that it is just not the offical source.
As a newbie you should know that the zero lop have been up over and over again, but never materialized. It may of course be a possibillity, but the latest hoopla about it sems to have die down, but don't worry, the zero lop argument will come up in a periodic and predictable 5.83 months interval.
By some reason or the other the zero loop argument have got the same name as what the old cowboy had named his fart. He was living on beans and bacon only, and at every sunset he had to pass this enormous amount of methane gas.
He always smiled and said the same thing everyday when it came:
-"Yeap, yeap, aaaaalways on time, ..the ooooool faithful"
-- March 4, 2010 11:05 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
Ah ok no, I know that scetch too, it is a classic.
-"I woud like to complain about the Parrot I bought in this store."
-"Ah yes I remeber that one, Norwegian Blue wonerful plumage."
_"Well, its dead"
-"No he's just resting"
-"Look I Know a dead parrot when I see one".
No this was another similar scetch, about this guy that walked into a Govt Building and entered the Dep of Arguments.
He pays his 5 Pounds and starts arguing.
The arguments ends up being about the argument, I'm sure it's on You Tube.
-- March 4, 2010 11:22 PM ∞
Rob J wrote:
Rob N:
Although I rarely post on this forum, I have been a regular reader since its inception. It would seem to me that you no longer have an interest or stake in the "Dinar game". All I see is conspiracy rants about "Amerika" and dialogue about everything that you view wrong with our country. Do us all a favor and go find another forum where you can debate the merits of our form of government and its leaders. I came to this site primarily for Dinar discussion and viewpoints. I grow weary of your incessant negativity. While I support your constitutional right to free speech, I suggest you find a different venue more suitable for you. That would be the courteous thing to do.
Rob J
-- March 5, 2010 12:43 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
You are in a neo-con haze and you are impaired from making a right judgement about an imperalistic foreign policy. Our government criticized the Soviets for their imperialistic invasion of Afghanistan and now we are attempting to do what the Soviets did 25 years ago. The U.S. is horrible at imperialistic conquest. Iraq and Afghanistan are total failures regardless of the nazi like propaganda you cut and paste.
Malaki and Karzai are both puppets of the United States and should they choose to cast off the strings of the puppeteer they will suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein. Concerning Saddam's WMDs; On June 18, 2004 an article appeared entitled; Reagan's WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein. If Saddam had WMDs it is the United States that supplied them to him. How hypocritical is it we invaded Iraq for having the very weapons we supplied him?
The United States foreign policy is such that we would rather support a dictator like Musharraf in Pakistan who camne to power through a coup overthrowing a democratically elected government. The United States installed the Shah in Iran. When the people of Iran had enough they overthrew the puppet. These events prove how broken our foreign policy is. Eventually, a coup against Al-Malaki and Karzai will occur. The United States will experience failure again.
Sara, there is nothing our military industrial complex is protecting me from by being in Iraq or Afghanistan. The war on terror is an enigmatic boogey man that does not exist. The War on Terror is more propaganda in an effort to implement a police state. George W. Bush threw away the constitution (it is just a piece of paper, right?)and proceeded to violate privacy laws, wire tapping laws etc. by the Patriot Act. Obama is following the same policies.
Sadly, the men and women in our military are mindless pawns obeying orders that should not be obeyed. The American Soldier in concert should have refused to deploy to Iran and Afghanistan. George W. Bush failed in linking Iraq with the World Trade Center Bombings of 9/11. Speaking of 9/11 how did building 7 fall when it was not hit at all? This is for another discussion.
The fact is we cannot even finance our own wars. The trillions of dollars spent in Iraq nad the trillions of dollars spent in Afghanistan is paid for because China and Japan agree to finance this debt. These two nations in Asia are creditors while the United States and the Europeans are debtors. This is also evidence that our foreign policy is broken and in disarray. The final act in this farce is a bankrupt America defeated in the middle east owing the Chinese and the Japanese the very souls of the 300,000,000 million people who are citizens of the United States. If I were you Sara I would begin learning Mandarin. This will be beneficial in the near future.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 5, 2010 12:52 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Reagan’s WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein
by Jacob G. Hornberger, June 18, 2004
Given all the indignant neoconservative “outrage” over the financial misdeeds arising from the UN’s socialist oil-for-food program during the 1990s, when the UN embargo was killing untold numbers of Iraqi children, one would think that there would be an equal amount of outrage over a much more disgraceful scandal — the U.S. delivery of weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein during the Reagan administration in the 1980s.After all, as everyone knows, it was those WMDs that U.S. officials, from President Bush and Vice-President Cheney on down, ultimately used to terrify the American people into supporting the invasion and war of aggression against Iraq, a war that has killed or maimed thousands of innocent people — that is, people who had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington.
In an October 1, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Got Germs for Weapons Program from U.S. in ’80s,” Associated Press writer Matt Kelly wrote,
[The] Iraqi bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records that are getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that U.N. weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show. Iraq had ordered the samples, saying it needed them for legitimate medical research.
The CDC and a biological-sample company, the American Type Culture Collection, sent strains of all the germs Iraq used to make weapons, including anthrax, the bacteria that make botulinum toxin, and the germs that cause gas gangrene, the records show. Iraq also got samples of other deadly pathogens, including West Nile virus.
The transfers came in the 1980s, when the United States backed Iraq in its war against Iran.
In a December 17, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program,” the Associated Press stated,
Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe, the United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam Hussein needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq’s 1996 accounting of its nuclear program....Iraq’s report says the equipment was either sold or made by more than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies and a handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian firms. It says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.
It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf War and contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment, detonation, implosion testing and warhead construction....
Most of the sales were legal and often made with the knowledge of governments. In 1985–90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example, licensed $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential military uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran, which at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the oil-rich Gulf region.
In a September 26, 2002, article entitled “Following Iraq's Bioweapons Trail,” columnist Robert Novak wrote,
An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease-producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American-exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.
In a September 18, 2002, ABC article entitled “A Tortured Relationship,” reporter Chris Bury wrote,
Indeed, even as President Bush castigates Saddam’s regime as “a grave and gathering danger,” it’s important to remember that the United States helped arm Iraq with the very weapons that administration officials are now citing as justification for Saddam’s forcible removal from power.
In a March 16, 2003, article entitled “How Iraq Built Its Weapons Program,” in the St. Petersburg Times, staff writer Tom Drury wrote,
Yet here we are, on the eve of what could turn into a $100-billion war to disarm and dismantle the Iraqi dictatorship. U.N. inspectors are working against the clock to figure out if Iraq retains chemical and biological weapons, the systems to deliver them, and the capacity to manufacture them.And here’s the strange part, easily forgotten in the barrage of recent rhetoric: It was Western governments and businesses that helped build that capacity in the first place. From anthrax to high-speed computers to artillery ammunition cases, the militarily useful products of a long list of Western democracies flowed into Iraq in the decade before its 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
Unfortunately, the U.S.-WMD connection to Saddam Hussein involved more than just delivering those WMDs to him. In an August 18, 2002, New York Times article entitled “Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas,” Patrick E. Tyler wrote,
A covert American program during the Reagan administration provided Iraq with critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program.Those officers, most of whom agreed to speak on the condition that they not be identified, spoke in response to a reporter’s questions about the nature of gas warfare on both sides of the conflict between Iran and Iraq from 1981 to 1988. Iraq’s use of gas in that conflict is repeatedly cited by President Bush and, this week, by his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, as justification for regime change in Iraq.
As writer Norm Dixon put it in his June 17, 2004, article “How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons,”
While the August 18 NYT article added new details about the extent of US military collaboration with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during Iraq's 1980-88 war with Iran, it omitted the most outrageous aspect of the scandal: not only did Ronald Reagan's Washington turn a blind-eye to the Hussein regime's repeated use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Iraq's Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
Immediately prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein delivered a WMD declarations report to the United Nations in an attempt to avert a U.S. invasion. Do you recall that U.S. officials intercepted the report and removed special sections of it, based on claims of “national security”? Well, it turned out that the removed sections involved the delivery of those WMDs by the United States and other Western countries to Saddam Hussein, information that obviously caused U.S. officials a bit of discomfort on the eve of their invasion.In a February 3, 2003, Sunday Morning Herald article entitled, “Reaping the Grim Harvest We Have Sown,” writer Anne Summers wrote,
What is known is that the 10 non-permanent members had to be content with an edited, scaled-down version. According to the German news agency DPA, instead of the 12,000 pages, these nations — including Germany, which this month became president of the Security Council — were given only 3,000 pages.
So what was missing?
The Guardian reported that the nine-page table of contents included chapters on “procurements” in Iraq’s nuclear program and “relations with companies, representatives and individuals” for its chemical weapons program. This information was not included in the edited version.
In a June 9, 2004, article “Reagan Played a Decisive Role in Saddam Hussein’s Survival in Iran-Iraq War,” Agence France Presse points out,In February 1982, the State Department dropped Baghdad from its list of state sponsors of terrorism, clearing the way for aid and trade.
A month later, Reagan ordered a review of US policy in the Middle East which resulted in a marked shift in favor of Iraq over the next year.
“Soon thereafter, Washington began passing high-value military intelligence to Iraq to help it fight the war, including information from US satellites that helped fix key flaws in the fortifications protecting al-Basrah that proved important in Iran’s defeat in the next month,” wrote Kenneth Pollack in his recently published book “The Threatening Storm.” ...
By March 1985, the United States was issuing Baghdad export permits for high tech equipment crucial for its weapons of mass destruction programs, according to Pollack.
In his June 8, 2004, article “Reagan and Saddam: The Unholy Alliance,” Alex Dawoody states,
By 1982, Iraq was removed from the list of terrorist sponsoring nations. By 1984, America was actively sharing military intelligence with Saddam’s army. This aid included arming Iraq with potent weapons, providing satellite imagery of Iranian troops deployments and tactical planning for battles, assisting with air strikes, and assessing damage after bombing campaigns.
One of the most fascinating parts of this entire sordid U.S. foreign-policy episode is that none other than Donald Rumsfeld played a key role in it. Yes, the same Donald Rumsfeld who, as U.S. Secretary of Defense, scared the American people to death with the thought that Saddam Hussein was about to employ the WMDs (which the U.S. had delivered to him) against them.A December 31, 2002, CBS story entitled “U.S. and Iraq Go Way Back,” put it this way:
Newly released documents show that U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, played a leading role in building up Iraq's military in the 1980s when Iraq was using chemical weapons, a newspaper reports.
It was Rumsfeld, now defense secretary and then a special presidential envoy, whose December 1983 meeting with Saddam Hussein led to the normalization of ties between Washington and Baghdad, according to the Washington Post.
In an August 18, 2002, MSNBC article entitled “Rumsfeld Key Player in Iraq Policy Shift,” Robert Windrem wrote,
State Department cables and court records reveal a wealth of information on how U.S. foreign policy shifted in the 1980s to help Iraq. Virtually all of the information is in the words of key participants, including Donald Rumsfeld, now secretary of defense.The new information on the policy shift toward Iraq, and Rumsfeld’s role in it, comes as The New York Times reported Sunday that the United States gave Iraq vital battle-planning help during its war with Iran as part of a secret program under President Reagan — even though U.S. intelligence agencies knew the Iraqis would unleash chemical weapons.
In a February 24, 2003, article entitled “Who Armed Saddam?” writer Stephen Green wrote,
And he’d probably read the front page Washington Post story (“U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup,” 12/30/02) based upon recently declassified documents, which revealed that it was Rumsfeld himself who, as President Reagan’s Middle East Envoy, had traveled to the Region to meet with Saddam Hussein in December 1983 to normalize, particularly, security relations.
In her article “Reaping the Grim Harvest We Have Sown,” Anne Summers reinforced this point:
In December 1983, Rumsfeld, then a special envoy to the Middle East appointed by President Reagan, travelled to Baghdad to inform Saddam Hussein that the United States was ready to resume full diplomatic relations with Iraq. A lengthy report in the Washington Post on December 30, 2002 — based on analysing thousands of pages of declassified government documents and interviews with former policy-makers — said that “US intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defences” following Rumsfeld’s visit.
So, what is Rumsfeld’s response to all this? Unfortunately, he suffers a malady that commonly afflicts Washington officials when a whiff of scandal is in the air: selective memory lapse. According to Matt Kelly’s article (cited above),
The disclosures put the United States in the position of possibly having provided key ingredients of the weapons it is considering waging war to destroy, said Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D., W.Va.), who entered the documents into the Congressional Record last month.Byrd asked Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld about the germ transfers at a recent Senate Armed Services Committee hearing. Byrd noted that Rumsfeld met Saddam Hussein in 1983, when Rumsfeld was President Ronald Reagan’s Middle East envoy.
“Are we, in fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sown?” Byrd asked Rumsfeld after reading parts of a Newsweek article on the transfers.
“I have never heard anything like what you’ve read, I have no knowledge of it whatsoever, and I doubt it,” Rumsfeld said. He later said he would ask the Defense Department and other agencies to search their records for evidence of the transfers.
Or as Robert Novak put it in his column (cited above),
Sen. Robert Byrd, a master at hectoring executive branch witnesses, asked Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld a provocative question last week: Did the United States help Saddam Hussein produce weapons of biological warfare? Rumsfeld brushed off the Senate’s 84-year-old president pro tem like a Pentagon reporter. But a paper trail indicates Rumsfeld should have answered yes.
According to the article by Anne Summers (cited above),
These days Rumsfeld likes to downplay or even deny his role in helping arm Iraq with the makings of weapons of mass destruction. He has been quoted as saying he had “nothing to do” with helping Iraq fight Iran in the ’80s. However, the Washington Post says, “The documents show that his visits to Baghdad led to closer US-Iraqi cooperation on a wide variety of fronts.”Given that the WMDs that were used to justify the invasion and war against Iraq never materialized, one would think that the neoconservatives who pushed and misled America into the war, and those members of Congress who complacently rubber-stamped the president’s actions, and those members of the press who served as the administration’s cheerleaders would be at least mildly outraged over how Saddam Hussein acquired his WMDs in the first place — from the United States and other countries during the Reagan administration. Unfortunately, the response has been the standard ho-hum one hears whenever the rot at the center of the empire surfaces: “It was just a policy mistake; it happened a long time ago; we need to put it behind us; and it’s now time to move on.”
It is that mindset of denial, however, that is certain to doom our nation to increasing conflicts, crises, and turmoil. To restore political, moral, and economic health to our country, it is necessary to excise the cancer associated with the unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power. In order to excise such a cancer, however, it is first necessary to acknowledge and confront its existence.
Thanks,Rob N.
-- March 5, 2010 12:54 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Hi Roger.. thanks, will look for it when I get a minute on youtube.
Been busy looking at the news, Iraq and everywhere else, just a catchup on what is happening.
I was concerned and interested in the story on the Pentagon security people shot by the "anti-Bush nut case and 911 Truther":===
Pentagon Shooter: Anti-Bush Nut Case and 9/11 Truther
3/4/2010There was a shooting just outside the Pentagon today, at a security checkpoint. Two cops were injured; breaking reports say the suspect, J. Patrick Bedell, has died.
QUOTE:The suspect, believed to be a U.S. citizen, walked up to a security checkpoint at the Pentagon in an apparent attempt to get inside the massively fortified Defense Department headquarters, at about 6:40 p.m. local time. “He just reached in his pocket, pulled out a gun and started shooting” at point-blank range, Keevill said. “He walked up very cool. He had no real emotion on his face.” The Pentagon officers returned fire with semiautomatic weapons.
===end quote===
And Internet research shows that the guy was a 9/11 Truther and an anti-Bush nut case.
There is also plenty of creepily nerdy/calm ranting about government control of the economy. As a correspondent wrote to me: “If he thought Bush was out to get private property, just imagine what he thought after Obama’s first year.”
Save this link when Big Media tries to portray him as a Tea Partier or right-winger.
UPDATE: More 9/11 Truther evidence against this guy here. And a full transcript of the rant excerpted above, here.
http://patterico.com/2010/03/04/pentagon-shooter-anti-bush-nut-case-and-911-truther/
Interesting how it is those from the LEFT who tend to be violent, not the right.
I guess the right takes up arms, until they can lay them down without worrying someone else will kill them.
The real goal for the right is pacifism (the principle or policy that all differences among nations should be adjusted without recourse to war - Dictionary.com), IMHO, but only under the constraints of reality.
That day surely hasn't happened yet.
I will go back and read RobN's stuff now, and then maybe post some of the interesting stuff I read on Iraq and the elections today, as I get time.Sara.
-- March 5, 2010 1:44 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
RobN;
I would say your main point was summarized by saying:
The response has been the standard ho-hum - “It was just a policy mistake; it happened a long time ago; we need to put it behind us; and it’s now time to move on.” It is that mindset of denial, however, that is certain to doom our nation to increasing conflicts, crises, and turmoil. To restore political, moral, and economic health to our country, it is necessary to excise the cancer associated with the unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power. In order to excise such a cancer, however, it is first necessary to acknowledge and confront its existence.
==end quote==
The fact of it being a mistake and also a long time ago by an Administration which no longer exists, and Reagan is now dead does not seem to deter these detractors. It WAS a policy mistake, it WAS a long time ago and done by dead people, and we do have to put it behind us.. since we cannot change it by talking about it. IF he/you wish to discuss TODAY's "unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power" as the crux of the matter.. it cannot be by continual harkening back and harping on some dead guy's mistake, except to say that we shouldn't do that again.. agreed. Ok, no more selling WMD to dictators, sounds like a good policy to me.
The issue here isn't really what Reagan did, or even Bush and Saddam.. their time is long ago now, it is past. It is TODAY'S exercise of power you are objecting to.. and in that context, your view of Iraq (victory, freedom, democracy) and Afghanistan (still unsettled) is a subject of opinion. The question concerning Aghanistan is.. Is it a national security issue to the USA? The majority of people in the US feel that it is, because a Rasmussen poll late last year had these numbers concerning the public's outlook on the question, QUOTE:
Eighty-four percent (84%) of voters say Afghanistan is at least somewhat important to the national security of the United States. Thirty-eight percent (38%) rate it as very important. Only 12% say it’s not very or not at all important.
Republicans are more likely to view Afghanistan as very important to U.S. national security, but in general there is little partisan disagreement on the question.
In light of these statistics, I would say that your views are definitely in the minority and do not reflect the on-the-ground reality of what the country has to face in the real world and what it feels is important over there, and to US national security aims.
As for your speaking about how the US sometimes uses clandestine operations (the drone attacks comes to mind) - that is a fact I doubt heartily your objections will finish. In an ideal world, such secret government exercise of power would be unnecessary, because mankind would not be attacking one another but living together in peace and harmony. That world is not upon us as yet. Until it is, I suggest that those in power are making use of whatever means they feel necessary to bolster their effectiveness and keep the country of America safe. If they fail or abuse their powers, they have God to answer to (since it is secret and we likely won't know about it until Judgement Day when all secrets of men are laid bare and open for all to see).. but for myself, I do not malign their motives based on inconclusive evidence and imputing ill intent upon them, when it is the government's role (Biblically speaking) to keep the peace and protect the people. As for their failures which do come to light, I think many times that Americans think it justifiable in the real world due to being faced with such enemies as America has. For instance, the majority believes that the intelligence gathering concerning waterboarding is justifiable, in spite of it being a horrible thing no one would really wish mankind had to do. Necessity drives mankind to all kinds of strange extremes.. life is truly a proving ground for how to work out good principles amongst the real world jungle. Here is that survey result discussion:
===
A waterboarding majority?
December 31, 2009
Posted by Ben SmithRasmussen's latest finds 58% saying "yes," after a bit of context, to: "Should waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques be used to gain information from the suspected bomber?"
The poll is just one more indication of what had become clear by last summer: The clichéd rule of politics under which Democrats must tread carefully on national security remains very much in effect.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1209/A_waterboarding_majority.html
All I am trying to say is.. I think your view comes from an ivory tower, with no connection to reality, wishing things were better. I cannot see that your "solutions" work in the real world and I think the American public has agreed with this course and direction, not because they are wicked or will evil in the world, but for good reasons having to do with national security.
I have to agree with Rob J.. it does seem a pointless endeavor to continue to discuss with you when you are not EVER on topic.. because you have no dinar or interest in our forum's main aim, to discuss Iraq and the Dinar.
Next post from me.. back to Dinar and talking about the upcoming elections..
Sara.
-- March 5, 2010 2:46 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
You again are completely wrong. The misdirected choices made by previous administrations have contributed to our present foreign policy; so, what Regan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush are pertinent.
Concerning the Pentagon shooter I would bet it is a false flag attack in a similar fashion as the Autin, Tx plane crash into the IRS building there. The agenda here is to convert America into a police state under the guise of security.
I am open to discuss the misguided policies of the CBI related to the Dinar. A three zero lop will occur this year as has been stated numerous of times. Once the lop occurs the Dinar will be reassigned a value of 1 to 1 parity with the USD. A 25000 dinar note will be worth $25.00. Expecting a 1000% revaluation is dead; holding onto this notion is naive.
Do you feel better now that I mentioned the Dinar in my post? Perhaps I will comment further upon the Dinar in response to your own post.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 5, 2010 3:20 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
On the election..
Maliki set to struggle for second term as Iraq PM
Mar 5, 2010A year ago, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki looked unstoppable as a dramatic security turnaround and slowly improving services proved a formidable weapon for winning votes in January 2009 local polls.
Now, people are asking if Maliki has turned that weapon on himself, as persistent violence, lingering sectarian tensions and growing impatience for public services and growth sow doubts about the Shi'ite leader's chances of winning a second term.
Whether Maliki's State of Law coalition gets enough votes to lead Iraq's next government -- no party is expected to win an outright majority -- will shape Iraq's future as it seeks to solidify security gains ahead of the U.S. withdrawal and end the political bickering that undermines stability.
His recent campaign speeches returned to well-worn themes: fighting terrorism, stamping out Saddam Hussein's Baath party and nationalism prevailing over post-2003 sectarian conflict.
Dour, formal, and rarely seen cracking a smile, Maliki has more recently added a new theme: seeking to discredit rivals by casting himself as the candidate who gets things done.
But things will not be as easy for Maliki, 59, as in 2006, when he emerged in lengthy government formation talks as a compromise pick who was not well known enough to be objected to.
As incumbent, he is fending off attacks from former partners looking to recapture Shi'ite support and from the secularist Iraqiya List, which may grab the anti-establishment vote.
Even if Maliki can return to the premier's office, his power will depend on the size and nature of the coalition he leads.
RECONCILIATION
There is great debate about how willing Maliki, who was sentenced to death by Saddam in absentia and is said to have a deep hatred for Baathists, is to truly embrace minority Sunnis. Many Sunnis, dominant under Saddam, say the answer is not very.
That perception was strengthened when judges, bowing to apparent government pressure, recently upheld a ban of candidates linked to Baathists, including top Sunni contenders.
"We haven't seen anything but dismissal, marginalisation and revenge, which will bring nothing good to Iraq," said Mohammed Shakir, an engineer in Ramadi, capital of Sunni Anbar province.
Another minority who may oppose another Maliki term are the Kurds, whose aspirations to take control of the disputed oil city of Kirkuk have been thwarted in part by the prime minister.
But mindful perhaps that Kurds may prove kingmakers in post-election manoeuvring, Maliki hinted in a recent interview that the question of Kirkuk's future should be put to Iraq's presidency council, headed by President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd.
While initially sceptical, American officials appear to have become Maliki converts, and his return would likely preclude hiccups in the U.S.-Iraqi relationship as Washington prepares to quickly reduce its troop level this summer and withdraw by 2012.
With neighbouring Iran, there are more questions. Maliki took heat last year for keeping a long silence after Iranian troops seized an oil well Baghdad claims belongs to Iraq.
Maliki, like all Iraqis, has condemned foreign meddling. But he is mindful of Iraq's deep ties with the fellow Shi'ite nation and appears determined to keep the relationship on an even keel.
For foreign investors, continuity may be a positive -- Maliki has lobbied hard to secure global business for Iraq.
But oil executives, fresh from signing major oil deals with the government, signal that none of the potential replacements for Maliki are likely to pose a threat to their work in Iraq.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100305/760/twl-maliki-set-to-struggle-for-second-te.html
-- March 5, 2010 4:16 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
RobN said, Do you feel better now that I mentioned the Dinar in my post?
Yes, I do, thanks. :)
You said, "I am open to discuss the misguided policies of the CBI related to the Dinar. A three zero lop will occur this year as has been stated numerous of times. Once the lop occurs the Dinar will be reassigned a value of 1 to 1 parity with the USD. A 25000 dinar note will be worth $25.00. Expecting a 1000% revaluation is dead; holding onto this notion is naive."
Yours is the worst case scenerio, and what you have stated here is about a 14% upward valuation for anyone holding the Dinar using today's exchange rate (which I just calculated). Why did you sell your Dinar if you know you will (by the end of the year) get a 14% return on your money as the worst case scenerio?
As for the possibility this is not the reality but merely disinformation put out to discourage people from holding Dinar so that the Iraqis do not have to give out a lot of return to those who do hold Dinar.. that is also a possibility and one I cannot discount. If the best case scenerio which we have speculated upon were the real deal, then you would indeed EXPECT that close to such a RV there would be a disinformation campaign to get people to sell their Dinar. It is simple math.. less people who will have to be paid out by the Iraqi government. With the Kuwaiti revaluation which made a few people very rich, I have no doubt that the very authorities involved in that RV would have denied it to your face the very day before they did that revaluation, wouldn't they? Quick review for the recent newbie: After the first Gulf War, the value of the Kuwaiti Dinar plunged. When that country was successfully liberated, and the oil was up and running again, their currency regained it's original value. I remember reading that an investor had spent $10 thousand dollars, on Kuwaiti currency, and a few years later, it was worth $3 million. This is a matter of public record, and can be easily found by googling the history of the Kuwaiti currency.
Since your "worst case scenerio" gives me a far greater return on my money than I can get in many investments (14% is not a shabby return) and the better case scenerio is far more as you have noted (1000%) - I am more than willing to wait and watch to see how this will work out. That this ongoing saga of the Dinar will likely work out THIS YEAR.. and not drag on for more, is seen by the report given on wikipedia which mirrors your view and gives it a timetable, saying, by the end of 2010.. QUOTE:
According to a report on that was shown on 6 February 2010 on Al Iraqiya TV channel, the Central Bank of Iraq considered a plan to redenominate the Iraqi dinar in order to increase the stength level of the Iraqi currency, which will allow people to carry less paper money. Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of a Central Bank advisory panel, told RFI that the plan is to remove the zeros from the currency and phase out the current banknotes late this year. Salih said by the end of 2010 the current banknotes, e.g. 10000 dinars will turn to 10 dinars. This will be while the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation. He did not specify when the new notes would be issued. Both will be legal tender in Iraq until the old notes are completely withdrawn.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_dinar#Banknotes
We will soon see if this view is the correct one, and not part of a campaign of disinformation.. If this view is correct, we Dinar investors who have remained in the Dinar will gain "only" 14%. If it is incorrect in this "pessimistic" viewpoint, we will gain up to 1000%. Either way, I still see the Iraqi Dinar as an investment where I and the other Dinar investors on this Board stand to gain.
Sara.
-- March 5, 2010 5:21 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.
“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127953
It is more likely to remain this way, as I said, with Maliki making the profits off of oil directly and paying for things with oil rather than a REAL VALUE for an exchange rate, as has been so for some time. He is ideologically opposed to RVing and if he gets in, there will be no RV of the Dinar or prosperity for the PEOPLE of Iraq.
Sara.
-- March 5, 2010 10:05 PM ∞
NEIL wrote:
Taking note of all the misdeeds and secretive actions taken by previous administrations, I find no fault with any President who has the best interest of the USA at heart. There is no question in my mind that Reagan's every action was to put the USA in a better position. The first Bush, I do not question his motivations at all, he was kind-hearted and left Iraq to soon with the Iraqi people expecting more from us.
I think Clinton wanted the USA to be succcessful and make good decisions but primarily so that he would look good. The second Bush was totally patriotic but wanted to avenge his fathers' failure to free the Iraqi people so he was hell-bent on toppling the Saddam regime. Now getting to Obama, I do not believe that his top priority is the welfare of the USA, I believe that he has some strange agenda such as social equality or global government or universal harmony-who knows?
I stated the above to say this, I will go along with most any devious or diabolical plan by our government so long as I believe that their sole purpose is help the USA.
I would go along with a war with Iraq with the sole purpose to get their oil, or Iran or Kuwait so long as the action was to insure the survival of America. We became great when everyone was ruthless and determined to keep America on top when dealing with other countries.I have to agree with much of what RobN says about the direction this country is headed in but I do not think that our actions are that of a nation trying to take something like oil from some other nations but that we are a bunch of good-hearted dumb asses who want to help every other country with borrowed money. This country is headed down the drain in a sea of red ink and is still trying to borrow more to influence some other country. We have got wise up.
-- March 5, 2010 10:36 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara and all,
This is a piece of info I got today regarding Malaki versus Allawi.
I talked to day with an Iraqi native, he is working for the US military as a translator.
My question to him was what he thought of the chances of the current PM Malaki to stay, or the one that is knocking on the door, Allawi to replace Malaki.
In his opinion, Malaki is not popular at all in Iraq, he is not a "strong man", but a whealer and dealer. Malaki had once a certain respect and following but in the Iraqi mans strong opinion, he thinks Malakis days are numbered, as Allawi is far more popular with the Iraq population.
Allawi was PM during the early days when he had to ask permission for everything from the US, when the country was still under occupation. Still Allawi was able to get things done that Malaki have failed to do.
The man I met today knows where the pendulum is right now, and as far as he is concerned, Malakis chances for political survival is very slim.
Reportedly Allawi's popularity is on a broad base, and are crossing Kurds, Shiite an Sunni lines.
We will see, upsets have been made in numerous other elections, so we will not know until the score is settled.
I just thought of sharing this particular part of my discussion I had with this Iraq man today, with you all.
-- March 6, 2010 5:14 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger - THANK YOU!! That is GREAT news, so far as I am concerned. With the vote "split" by so many people running, the only concern I have had is if the split will cause a lot to vote machine gun fashion - a smattering of votes at each of the runners - so that Maliki, as the incumbent and with name recognition, will get in. But your note gives me hope the Iraqis see it as a fight between the two - Allawi (who will ALLOW the Iraqis prosperity, I hope.. and Dinar RV) and Maliki (who will not). If this is the view they truly have and the Iraqi people go to the polls not wishing to throw away their vote, they will vote for one or the other of these two. Hopefully it means Allawi will win, with all the positive news that will mean for Iraqi prosperity and Dinar RV. :)
Neil - I agree. It is almost like people expect the US to be so caring and Christian for other nations.. to the neglecting of her own interests. And if she does take her own interests in hand, they accuse the US of being "arrogant" and a "bully" or facist. It is like the world thinks the US should graciously give all the borrowed money in the world to others, and not care they are giving away their own ability to stay afloat financially or prosper. Crazy. As for the past Presidents, as you say, I agree that so long as the US was first in their hearts and agenda, they did not do too badly for the nation.. in spite of their differing human failings. It is apparent that God kept the nation safe from George Washington to George W. Bush.. but this is something new - a hopey changey CHANGE which is not for the better and 180 degrees away from that tradition of "US first." That policy change of direction spells disaster for the people of America and unless the ship can be righted it will sink the US like the Titanic from fiscal irresponsibility and neglect of taking care of the nation on so many fronts which a caring person for America would naturally and normally do.
Case in point:
The Modest Failure of Obama's Iran Policy
Judah Grunstein | Bio | 05 Mar 2010As the push for a new round of sanctions against Iran falters, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the Obama administration's game plan on Iran policy was long on tactics and short on strategy. We've heard a bit about how U.N sanctions are up against a "bad UNSC," which currently includes Brazil, Turkey and Lebanon as non-permanent members. But that should come as no surprise, and the same goes for those three countries' predictable resistance to getting vocally on board for stiff sanctions.
Now comes word that the administration is trying to carve out an exemption for China in unilateral U.S. sanctions making their way through Congress. Japan and South Korea, on the other hand get no such special attention, with the inescapable message being that friendship and solidarity don't pay quite as well as obstructionism and a pile of U.S. debt.
This is a consequence of the administration's failure of nerve -- or lack of imagination -- at the outset, when either a bold engagement with Iran or a bold engagement with Russia would have more likely delivered better long-term strategic results. Instead, we saw a tepid outstretched hand combined with a tepid reset, neither of which seems to have paid off. Instead of a shift in the underlying strategic logic of how to contain Iran's nuclear ambitions, the Obama administration essentially tried to pass off a "new & improved" version of the Bush administration's carrot and stick approach, or what Dennis Ross called "better carrot & better stick."
Admittedly, the domestic politics of true engagement on either front would have been costly for President Barack Obama. There's also no guarantee that either would have delivered better results, especially in light of Iran's post-election turmoil. And as I have argued previously, even the administration's lukewarm Iran engagement has made it clear that it is now the Iranians who are unwilling to take yes for an answer. But that's little consolation if it comes up short of the desired strategic payoff.
As Bobby Z put it, "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all." In trying to avoid a spectacular failure, Obama has come away with a modest one instead.
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/blog/show/5225
In trying to avoid a spectacular failure, Obama has come away with a modest one instead.
When it was US interests first.. seen as arrogant or not, America won. When it is "a tepid outstretched hand" all America gets is a modest failure. America First as a policy worked, this has not. I hope America takes note of it for the future and has the guts to choose to win instead of "lose for compassion's sake".. finally getting the true message and choosing to take the accusation of being the "arrogant American" who works in America's best interests first, again. You cannot please all of the people all of the time, so I hope America will choose to please America and its interests first in the future, for America's sake. I hope America takes note and makes up its collective mind to be willing to take that ridicule and do the hard thing for America's sake - for a double-minded nation, like a double-minded man, is UNSTABLE in all its ways. (James 1:8)
Sara.
-- March 6, 2010 6:34 AM ∞
Dean wrote:
It does appear CBI intends to redenominate the dinar by dropping three 000's by the end of 2010.
This is up on the XE.com website:
The Central Bank of Iraq has announced their plans to redenominate the Iraqi Dinar to ease cash transactions. By the end of 2010, they intend to drop three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes. It should be noted that the actual value of the dinar will remain unchanged. That means that 1,000 IQD (pre-redenomination) and 1 dinar (post-redenomination) will both be worth the same amount in US Dollars. As stated by the Central Bank of Iraq, their mandate is to "ensure domestic price stability and foster a stable competitive market based financial system." For more information about the redenomination, read "Iraq plans to slice three zeros off currency notes."
http://www.xe.com/currency/iqd-iraqi-dinar
I guess this means I have a lot of Dinars that I'm going to need to exchange for the new denominations when they come out? If this is the case, how do I do this?
Anybody know?
-- March 7, 2010 12:36 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Talabani says asked to be Iraq president again
SULAIMANIYAH, Mar 07, 2010 (AFP) - Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Sunday after casting his ballot in the country's general election that he had been asked by several blocs to continue on in the post.
"I have been asked by many many Iraqi groups and lists to re-candidate myself," he told reporters in the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah, 270 kilometres (170 miles) north of Baghdad.
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidANA20100307T052133ZHXC09/TalabanisaysaskedtobeIraqpresidentagain
-- March 7, 2010 6:57 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Dean;
They just denied that old information you just quoted. As of so March 3rd they say that is not so.. that is old info you quoted.
---
No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.
“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.
-- March 7, 2010 7:01 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Statement by Dr. Ayad Allawi, former Prime Minister of Iraq and Leader of the Iraqiya List, at the close of polling for the Iraq
BAGHDAD, March 7, 2010 /PRNewswire/ --"The Iraqi people have spoken, and it is vital for our country's future that the integrity of the democratic process is respected. As the votes are counted, the great number of Iraqis who risked their safety to take part in these elections are watching."
-- March 7, 2010 3:14 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Gates: Surprisingly little violence in Iraq vote
AP - Sun Mar 7th, 2010ABOARD A U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT - U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he sees surprisingly little violence associated with the Iraq elections and that security improvements have forced al Qaida-linked militants to change tactics.
Gates told reporters Sunday that he's been briefed on the voting by the top U.S. general in Iraq , Ray Odierno (oh-dee-EHR'-noh). He said turnout is as high or higher than expectations.He said, "All in all, a good day for the Iraqis and for all of us."
Gates said he was told about "a handful" of militant attacks that caused injuries. But Gates said there's been no confirmed mortar or indirect fire attacks on Baghdad. He said that in the South, in eight of nine provinces there were no security incidents at all during the voting.
http://us.new.m.yahoo.com/w/ynews/article/politics/1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fxml.news.yahoo.com%2Fus%2Fnews%2Frss%2Frichstoryrss.html%3Fu%3D%2Fap%2F20100307%2Fap_on_re_us%2Fgates_iraq&.ts=1267991524&.intl=us&.lang=en&.ysid=4K5euSHlZO56nBYpj_HIFA--
-- March 7, 2010 3:16 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Polls close in Iraq after deadly day
Ben Knight, Kim Landers and staff, ABC March 8, 2010Polls have closed in the Iraqi elections, after an election day that saw 35 people killed by insurgents.
Insurgents had threatened to do all they could to disrupt this election.
There were long queues of voters at polling stations in a number of cities.
Many voters said they were happy to be taking part and hoped their country would soon leave the religious violence of the past permanently behind.
As the party leaders voted, there was no clear front runner to win.
Forming a new government could take weeks, or months, of negotiations.
But there is a positive mood in Iraq and a sense that this vote was a repudiation of the religious militants who almost destroyed the country after the last parliamentary election four years ago.
It was Iraq's second national election since the US led invasion in 2003.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/australian-news/6900733/polls-close-in-iraq-after-deadly-day/
-- March 7, 2010 3:23 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq Election: World leaders praise bravery of Iraqi voters after election
Iraqis defied bombings and a wave of mortar attacks to complete the most fiercely competitive election in the nation's history.
By Richard Spencer in Baghdad
Published: 07 Mar 2010Polling stations reported a strong turnout of voters on Sunday despite 38 deaths across the country and a security presence which included 200,000 police and soldiers in the capital alone.
Voters from across the Sunni-Shia sectarian divide said the level of violence was far lower than in the last general election, in 2005.
"We are Iraqis. We have had it much worse than this," said Kamal Fadil, in charge of a polling station in Salhiya, in central Baghdad, to the backdrop of explosions in either direction.
"I care more about changing the country than about this intimidation," said Mahir Jamil, 49, outside a station in the al-Mansur neighbourhood, a few yards from where a mortar had landed shortly before.
Once mixed, al-Mansur is now almost entirely Sunni following a wave of ethnic cleansing led by al-Qaeda fighters, the evidence of which is still visible in the walls pock-marked by bullets.
There are few polls and no-one expects any of the four principal blocks to win a clear-cut victory.
Western diplomats applauded the conduct of the campaign, with television stations devoting hours to debates and interviews with candidates and the streets plastered with posters.
One diplomat said it was a mistake to assume the worst would happen. "In the last three years, the pessimists have always been proved wrong," he said. "In a week's time, there is a good chance we will have taken a big step forward."
Rival contenders for power could yet cry foul. The anti-sectarian opposition leader Ayad Allawi claims that he lost the last election because of ballot stuffing and vote rigging.
Another factor muddying the outcome is the mixed fortunes of the third main contender - an alliance of Shia parties grouping that comprised Islamists with strong ties to Iran and the fiercely anti-American Sadrists, whose Mahdi militia have fought vicious sectarian and anti-western battles.
The campaign drew a diverse range of candidates. The most attention-grabbing have been those of the many women candidates, in many cases unveiled. One prompted an onlooker to joke that he knew the candidate and she was ten years older when the picture was taken. He said: "See - these politicians are already lying to us."
A provisional result is due to be declared by the end of the week, but the haggling to form a coalition is likely to last until at least the summer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393350/Iraq-Election-World-leaders-praise-bravery-of-Iraqi-voters-after-election.html
-- March 7, 2010 3:46 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Vote count begins in Iraq election
Mar, 07, 2010 Aljazeera.net (Qatar)Election officials in Iraq have begun counting the votes following the country's second full parliamentary election since the 2003 US-led invasion.
Authorities imposed a curfew in the capital, Baghdad, after the polls closed on Sunday to ensure the safe transportation of the ballots from election centres to the election commission's main counting offices.
Millions of people turned out to cast their ballots across the country, choosing from more than 6,000 candidates from 86 political groups looking to gain seats in the 325-member assembly.
Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna, reporting from Baghdad, said the series of mortar attacks and blasts from improvised explosive devices overshadowed the start of voting.
"The apparent target were polling stations though none was directly damaged in any of the attacks. After that very dangerous start, voting proceeded fairly smoothly," he said.
"At this point it's still unclear exactly how large the turnout was, but reports from most areas indicate that the turnout was very satisfactory as far as those who want to see a successful poll process go are concerned."
Elsewhere, Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, reporting from Sulaymaniyah, said "Today we are seeing a lot of Arabs turning up at the polling stations who want to be part of the political process, from which they have been away for many years, which has weakened them and given Kurds more clout in the Iraqi parliament."
The election was supervised by as many as 120 international monitors, with a number of foreign embassies providing staff to act as observers.
The European Union, France, the UK and the US all congratulated the people of Iraq after the vote.
Barack Obama, the US president, also commended voters and Iraqi security forces for their efforts to participate in the election despite the violence.
Voters were choosing between a broad range of parties and coalitions and no bloc is expected to win a majority.
After the last national election in 2005, it took the various political parties about five months to agree on a prime minister and for a cabinet to be approved.
Our correspondent, Mike Hanna, said: "In the past, people have tended to vote along sectarian lines. But now, no governing coalition can come to power unless it has the widest possible breadth of support.
"So political parties and coalitions have been fighting a campaign not on sectarian issues, but on the wider issues of Iraqi nationalism."
The Iraqi electoral commission is to announce preliminary results on March 10-11, based on votes from about 30 per cent of the polling stations.
The supreme court would then certify the poll results, after hearing appeals, within about a month of the election.
-- March 7, 2010 3:57 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq Election: The main parties
The major coalitions in the Iraq elections range from narrow religious groups to broad cross-sectarian coalitions.
by Richard Spencer in Baghdad
Published: 07 Mar 2010State of Law: Led by Nuri al-Maliki, the prime minister. The grouping was formed when Mr Maliki decided to rule without the support of the more radical Islamist parts of his Shia Muslim coalition.
It now claims to be cross-sectarian, with support from some Sunni tribal leaders, but is still reliant on its massive Shia base in the south.
Iraqiya: Led by Ayad Allawi, Iraq's former leader.
Mr Allawi is an English-speaking Shia with good ties in the Sunni Arab world. Popular with both the urban, educated classes, Mr Allawi represents the ideal that politics can be cross sectarian. He has strong from Sunnis and people who back a secular state. His fierce criticism of Mr Maliki means they are unlikely to be able to form a government together.
Iraqi National Alliance: A wide-ranging religious front closely tied to Iran.
The Shia grouping is dominated by Islamic Supreme Conference of Iraq (ISCI) and Sadrists, who are loyal to radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. ISCI, was once dominant in the faction but has lost popularity due to perceived closeness to Iran. If Sadrists do well, the rump ISCI could defect to support Mr Allawi despite differences over the role of religion in Iraqi state.
Unity Coalition: Led by Jawad al-Bolani, the interior minister.
Another cross-sectarian grouping, now largely a vehicle for Mr Bolani. Like Mr Allawi, he is a Shia presiding over a coalition that has support from Sunnis. It is unlikely to win a large number of seats but will be a useful coalition partner.
Kurdistan Alliance: Led by Massoud Barzani.
The autonomous region of Kurdistan has its own politics, dominated by the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Their role after the election is simple - to fight for as many concessions over boundaries and oil concessions as possible from whichever party seeks to gain power with their help. It is likely to secure the election of President Jalal Talabani for a second term.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393315/Iraq-Election-The-main-parties.html
-- March 7, 2010 4:07 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq Election: Democracy takes root in the Middle East
by Damien McElroy, Foreign Affairs Correspondent
Published: 07 Mar 2010If Iraq's second democratic general election was viewed on its merits, it would be seen as an astonishing and important event.
Nobody in Iraq would have voted yesterday if Saddam Hussein's regime or one led by his odious sons, was still in power.
The clamourous competition of a handful of electoral blocs that boast a nationwide following would not be possible in a Baath Party dictatorship.
With a successful election it is almost certain that American troops will leave ahead of schedule.
The voting also appeared to have avoided its greatest potential pitfall as observers reported much diminished Iranian efforts to rig the voting.
Manipulation of the outcome by Tehran and its allies remains a real danger that will only be apparent after the results are known at the end of the week.
No matter who finishes first, the next government will have to include Iran's allies as a coalition partner. There is no putative combination of parties that would result in Tehran being driven into the cold.
But Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two regional powers that border Iraq, have a short-term interest in a stable buffer zone.
In this sense it does not matter which of the competing factions wins. Iraqi politicians have demonstrated their ability to work across ideological, sectarian and ethnic lines for six years.
The political scene is highly fractured but it does function. That too is a virtue when there are many warnings that democratic gains could be reversed by the rise of a future strongman.
Therefore the most likely outcome is the advent of a mature democracy in a region that is crippled by a dozen shades of dictatorship.
Iraqis voted in huge numbers yesterday to an accompanying drumbeat of bombs and bullets. The world should acknowledge the momentuous impact of that singularly impressive development.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393354/Iraq-Election-Democracy-takes-root-in-the-Middle-East.html
-- March 7, 2010 4:20 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
I post this to contrast with the brave 38 Iraqis killed during the Iraqi elections:
===
60 Islamists Killed as Rival Terror Gangs Battle in Afghanistan
Sunday, March 7, 2010, 12:59 PM
Jim HoftPity.
Up to 60 Islamists were killed today in Afghanistan as rival militant groups, the Taliban and Hesb-i-Islami, battled in northern Afghanistan.
The fighting in Baghlan province erupted on Saturday morning. (BBC)
The Pakistani Nation reported:Up to 60 militants and 19 civilians may have been killed in bloody clashes between rival Islamist militant groups in northern Afghanistan, a police official said Sunday. The fighting between Taliban rebels and militants loyal to the Hezb-i-Islami insurgent group erupted early Saturday in Baghlan province where both factions are active, said provincial police chief Mohammad Kabir Andarabi. Citing local sources in the region, police officials said the battles continued on Sunday in the Jangal Bagh area. The interior ministry on Saturday confirmed the clashes, but was not able to give casualty figures. “We have intelligence reports that 60 fighters — 40 (from) Hezb-i-Islami and 20 Taliban — have died so far. Our reports indicate that up to 19 civilians were also killed,” Andarabi told a foreign news agency. The Taliban are the main militant group behind an increasingly deadly insurgency aimed at toppling the Western-backed government of President Hamid Karzai and forcing out about 121,000 US and NATO troops stationed in Afghanistan.
--
This is what is called a “win-win” situation.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/60-islamists-killed-as-rival-terror-gangs-battle-in-afghanistan/
-- March 7, 2010 4:39 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
The Iraqi elcetion will be very interesting in that sense that the Iraqis have clearly left the religious parties and swung over to political parties.
However, as this is a development, and at the same time a first, exactly how the political scene will turn out is an unknown until the ballots are counted.
It's like taking a photo with a camera that uses film, not seeing what you took a photo of, and you go into the darkroom and develop the film, and will be surprised at what emerged on the negative.
The Iraqis voted, but what did they vote on???
Speculations about future political possibilities in Iraq must be base on facts, and until the film is developed we can only guess at best.
A very good indicator is the reported voting participation, it seems to be very high, meaning that this is something that concerns the Iraqi citizen and he take a deep interest and involvement in the governing of his country.
That alone is a victory for Iraq.
All this is good for the Iraqi stabilization, it did prove itself during the voting process.
It only take a small handfull of insurgent to do the damage they did, very small consiering that most of the voting districts did not have any probelms at all.
The perspective here is a small handful of insurgents managed to get SOME headlines, but it seems like even the MSM have acknowledged the fact that this is very minor, and in fac, it didn't change anything, the population are very used to hear explosons, seeing tracers, and hear gunfire, so they just stood above all that and voted anyway.
So the bottom line is a small handful, versus a whole nation of 27 million people. The people won.
This election will have pretty big ramification of the future development of Iraq, the population wants real and tangeable change, and of tha is what they voed for , then they will get change. This will of course affect Iraq as a whole, including the currency.
Re: Afghanistan... two insurgent groups are having a battle with each other, ...the score, 60 terrorists killed.....
I am absolutely not against it, .......in fact I approve.
-- March 7, 2010 8:46 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
FIAT CURRENCYS ARE FAILED CURRENCIES.
Fiat currencies, a currency in where the value is pre-determined by a Central bank a Monarch or Caesar himself.
Old time currencies and currencies in either hard controlled countries, or in undeveloped countries are in many cases FIAT currencies.
Rome had it, the early Americas had it, long before we had our revoution, and the most blatant failure is the German Weimar republic in the years follwing WW1.
A free floating currency, have ONE value, and it is only as valuable as someone else think it is worth when buying or selling the currency.
Therefore a free floating currency have true exchange value.
A FIAT currency is prone to failure of the very reason that the currency have one value but a political force is setting another value. One "offical value, and one true value.
Thise two values are sometimes very far apart, Chinas currency is much stronger than the artificial value, so the Chinese can't even afford to buy many of the products they produce themselves. We have roughly the same scenario with the Iraqi Dinar.
The weaknes with FIAT currency is not that it loses its value, it can't it is set,( so is the thinking anyway, but it will lose it's value in a very intricate way) but as a set and fixed currency can be printed in as much as the print can manage to print out, and still have the same value,....but.... inflation will kick in instead.
It's easy to understand the forces by examining the Weimar republics currency. Fixed currency, ok that sounds good, meaning it will not go down in value ( thats the thinking) . Inflation kicks in, and you can't buy what you want or need, so pressure on increasing wages in tune with increased inflation will then be the next step. That will not decrease inflation, so prices are still racing out of reach, so more wages, more ( compensation packages as Obama would put it), more money is pushed on the market, the money prints are spinning and the downward wheel is quickly spiraling
out of control.It is the normal natural economic forces that adjusts, to a forceful set currency.
If the money is worth the same, but the prices are skyrocketing, or if prices stay the same, but the money is losing value is merely a matter of viewpoint. It is the same force that is acting upon the currency.
Iraq is experencing a high inflation, and it is a direct effect of a FIAT currrency. Now, it could be stemmed and controlled somewhat by high base interest rate, they have a decent handle on it, but the cure is not in putting a band aid on it.
The ultimate scenario for the Dinar would be a free floating currency.
The second best solution , would the powers in charge decide to continue to control the exchange rate, would be to revalue the Iraqi Dinar and hope it will be spot on, or very cose in proximity to it's real value.
-- March 8, 2010 5:36 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
What was the point of this previous post. It appears your presuppisition that fiat currency cannot loose value is wrong. All fiat currencies looses value; especially when governments (like the U.S.) borrow excessive amounts of money from abroad, finance imperalistic wars spending the trillion of dollar borrowed from Asia, concurrent deficit spending, and monetizing debt by expanding the money supply. Our urrent American Dollar is worth a paltry $.04. Inflation is the loss of purchasing power by the people. The citizenry uses these devalued dollars to buy higher priced milk, eggs, and beef. The grocery bill continues to increase with less and less items in the bag.
Iraq is following the same policies as our Federal Reserve assuming debt with an ever increasing money supply; which results in the loss of purchasing power for the Iraqi people. If Iraq contracts the money supply through a zero lop and does not access the money borrowed from the IMF then I would concede the possibility of Iraq having a healthy currency. Only through a 3 zero lop can Iraq sufficiently reign in the money supply. If 25000 dinar note becomes a 25 dinar note 1 to 1 parity to the dollar is likely; making the 25 dinar note equal to $25.00 usd.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- March 8, 2010 11:00 AM ∞
Paul wrote:
I”ve got a question on this revaluation. Say I’ve got 10 – 25,000 dinar notes equaling 250,000 dinars. According to this revaluation, when I go to exchange my dinars, would they give me back 250,000 dinars worth of 25 dinar notes or will they give me back 10 – 25 dinar notes?
-- March 8, 2010 1:55 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
You read each three words, didn't understand it, and what you didnt unerstand you filled in with your own interpretation of what you think I said here, and you are saying that I didn't say something that I said.
You're not too bright, and honestly I think you are living a life dependant on some chemical of some sort, may it be prescribed pills, alcohol or whatever.
Why don't you go and do something you really do understand instead.
If you are not doing Dinars, sold out, and still here, your only contribution will be to try to prove yourself right.
Your presence means only a negative to the Dinar issue.
If you can make rain on our parade, you gladly do.
I honestly believe that if you can make rain on anyone elses parade too, you gladly do that also.
If you would call around and invite guests to a spontaneous party, that you will hold, how many people can you call???
You don't have many friends, isn't it so?
This blogsite is a poor substitute for a trashed social life Rob N.
-- March 8, 2010 8:00 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Paul,
You are describing a possible zero lop scenario, where you will get back a 25 Dinar bill for evry 25000 Dinar bill you now posess.
That is not an RV, and RV is short for revaluation and has nothing to do with changing face of the currency.
Revaluation is the phenomenon in where an exchange value is changed to a higher value.
For example, 100 Credits is the same as 1 Dollar. Now we revalue the Credits to 1 Credit is equal to 1 Dollar.
Devaluation would then ( of course) be the opposite, if you have a Credit valued the same as a Dollar, and you now decide to make the Credit have a value of only 100 Credits to 1 Dollar you have now devalued the Credit.
Usually devaluation is a slower natural process.
Zero lop, is not a revaluation or a devaluation, the currency value stays the same, except that a face change is taking place, in where a bigger number of a curency is lumped together into one unit.
This is a system that have been used in many currencies that have a lot of units in their currency, if you need three million Credits to buy a loaf of bread, you need to haul so much paper with you that it becomes impractical, so if we would then do a zero lop and take off all the zeros, we could exchange the 3 million credits, with a new bill that we can call "The New Credit" .
You would in this case shave off six zeroes, and you will now have three Credits to pay for your loaf of bread instead.
Still there is no difference in exchange rate betwen 3 million Credits or 3 "New Credits" , same thing, different wrapping.
Now,.... a part revaluaton, and part zero lop could of course take place at the same time.
An example of that would be if for example we have our famous Credits, they are valued to 100 Credits to 1 Dollar.
We could then print up a new currency, in where we have shaved off ONE zero, and exchange the new Credits for the old one, for every TEN old Credits, you get ONE new credit.
As we stand right now after this transaction, we have an exchange value of 10 Credits for every Dollar you would exchange.
Ok if we at the same time as we exchange the old Credit for the New Credit , we simply declare that the exchange value of the New Credit is 1 to 1 with the Dollar.
In this example we revalued the currency 10 times.
When it comes to the Dinar.....who knows what way it will go, what we do know though, is that the currency (Iraqi Dinar) is almost criminaly undervalued, and the pressure to change it is increasing the more Iraq is developing.
Iraq is a specially interesting curcumstance, where holding Dinars have a potential to either pay off somewhat, (Zero lop, and a small Revaluation) or the other extreme, pay off handsomely, (Full revaluation.)
Even if there will be a compromize between the two extreme scenarios, it will be a very good payoff.
It is like a lottery ticket where the odds are much better than Lotto, because if anyone decides to back out of it, and sell out, you will get your money back.
Ad onto the whole scenario a whole culture of dealers trying to push more Dinars, rumormongers, bashers, pessimists, and people that take it as a religion that it will zero lop, trying to get you into "their camp", and sell out.
Bashers sitting on the sideline, not involved with Dinars, ( we've got one here on this blog, Rob N) that have nothing else to do, other than trying to make you see the hopelesness in the Dinar situation.
You have a lot of people that spend a lot of time, on the internet, sharing news, or other research on the subject, there are a few "Dinarholics" that have got at least a Ph D's worth of education in the subject by now.
Don't panic when you hear any explosive news, that wants you to sell off.
Just snug up close to your open fire, and enjoy your favorite brandy, and have no hurry, and the Dinar will eventually resolve into something you will really like.
-- March 8, 2010 8:44 PM ∞
4moreyears wrote:
In the first gulf war, when the coalition of the willing kicked Saddam out of Kuwait, and that country stabilized, it still took 4 years before the economy was rebuilt and the the oil started flowing big time and they revalued their Kuwaiti dinar. Iraq is just getting stable now, so if you people think the Iraqi Dinar will RV tomorow you all are dreaming. Hate to rain on your parade but why should a country that is still a mess and zero economy have an expensive currency?
-- March 9, 2010 1:38 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
4moreyears
Well it was a bit of generality,...."if you people think".
So with other words, everybody thinks in one way, but you are the only one that thinks in another way.
The common guess when it will happen is about as spread out as a shotgun pattern 150 yards away.
Currencys are never expensive, the only thing that is cheap or expensive is what you buy with them.
The currency is undervalued, that's what this is about.
Iraq have come very far from its former clusterf..k, or true mess if you would, and a "zero economy"... well, you will have a lot of good arguments from a lot of people that this is not a stagnant place. The dynamics of change has gone through a lot of phases, in most all areas of life over there.
Iraq with it's culture have it's own idiosynchrasys, so don't expect our way of life there, but in it's own culture, and way of doing things, they have come far.
In order to get to the point where they will RV, they have to go through whatever level they are now.
If this is a good or bad level, we can have as much opinions abot that as we like, but it is a meaningless discussion, because the Iraqis will determine when an RV will happen, based on their own viewpoint of where they are at the time.
They may se it differently and do it in a couple of hours....or a few years from now...who knows, I think though that the advancment in progress they have made, will in the Iraqis eyes, be closer to the RV than many pessimists here think.
It's easy to sit an ocean away and kick out a generality, -"those people over there will never...." and so on.
The Iraqis have lived their own past, you don't, so they know where they have been, and where they are now, and that difference is much greater for them, than it is for you.
Much will also hang on the outcome of this election.
Something we are all curious about, so far we have only reports of the elections succesful conclution, and that they will tally the ballots, but we have no clear indication of how the up and coming government will look.
We have not even a report of, in what direction the results will be leaning towards.
Wait, roll the thumbs.
-- March 9, 2010 4:54 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq Postpones Announcing Initial Election Results
By VOA News 03/09/10
Iraq’s election commission has postponed announcing initial results from Sunday’s parliamentary election because it says it has not finished counting enough votes.A spokesman for Iraq’s Independent High Electoral Commission said Tuesday they would make an announcement once they had tabulated 30 percent of the votes. Election officials say they should reach that threshold to present the initial results on Wednesday or Thursday.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/09/iraq-postpones-announcing-initial-election-results/
-- March 9, 2010 3:07 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
4moreyears,
The Iraqi Dinar will not revalue instead it will lop a 25000 note will be lopped to a 25 dinar note. The GoI and the CBI will eventually bring the Dinar 1 to 1 parity with the usd making the 25 dinar note worth $25.00 usd. It is naive by many on this board and those invested in the Dinar that it will revalue making the 25000 dinar note worth $25,000 usd.
Officials from the CBI have repeatedly stated their intent to lop the notes. It is only through a lop can the CBI address Iraq's excessive monetary supply. I would suggest dumping those dinars immediately. Nothing to see here.
-- March 9, 2010 9:27 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
You can't read can you?
Go back 15 - 16 blogs and read the blog Sara posted about zero lop.
You're just regurgitating the same shit over and over again.
-- March 9, 2010 9:52 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Here it is, as Roger mentioned.. worth reposting.
Sara wrote:
Dean;
They just denied that old information you just quoted. As of so March 3rd they say that is not so.. that is old info you quoted.
---
No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.
“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.
-- March 10, 2010 12:06 AM ∞
wrote:
Roger, don't pick on the handicapped.
-- March 10, 2010 12:46 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
EDITORIAL: Inspiration, vindication as democratic Iraq tallies votes
Mar, 09, 2010 04:51 PM - Daily Oklahoman (Oklahoma City)Mar. 9--Final official results in Iraq's parliamentary elections won't be known for days, but the real winners are the Iraqi people and the young democracy endorsed by their votes Sunday.
Election officials said 62 percent of the country's eligible voters cast ballots amid a smattering of explosions that killed at least 38 in Baghdad. Even so, a number of reports said Iraqis shrugged off insurgent attempts to spoil the election, turning out in numbers greater than in provisional voting last year.
"The Iraqi people have seen much worse than this," Ibtihal Khaled told The Wall Street Journal in Baghdad. "A few bombs won't keep them away from the polls." Another woman, 76, told The Washington Post: "This is our right. We came to take it." Inspiring, to say the least.
Also confirming -- confirming the vision a few had for what might be possible in a post-Saddam Iraq.
President George W. Bush made many mistakes with the war and building a new regime. But he was right not to give up when prospects looked bleak, when critics said retreat from Iraq was the only viable option.
When Bush surged U.S. troops into Iraq in 2007 to stabilize the country, he was opposed by then-Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden, now the chief political beneficiaries of Iraq's progress. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the war was lost just weeks into that campaign. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi regularly called for America's withdrawal.
All of them were wrong; their lack of faith in the U.S. military, the Iraqi people and the exceptionalism of democracy, in its transforming power, was exposed.
That power is at work in Iraq, and while there's still far to go, the change is remarkable. Iraqi blogger Nibras Kazimi wrote that the greatest thing about Sunday's voting was "how normal it felt; elections have become a ho-hum, commonplace occurrence."
A democratic Iraq now counts its votes. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and former interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi were expected to be in a tight race that featured full Sunni participation. No one group was expected to win a majority in parliament.
The next test will be sorting out a governing coalition and the response of Sunday's losers. All of this will play out with U.S. combat troops schedule. Then the Iraqi people and their government surely will face a final exam: standing on their own.
With all that the Iraqis have been through to this point, it would hard to bet against them.
-- March 10, 2010 1:10 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq Holds Largest Democratic Election in History
Sunday, March 7, 2010, 9:51 AM
Jim HoftThank you, George W. Bush. Thank you, US Military. Thank you, Republicans in Congress.
PIC: Iraqi men wave thir national flag as they ride at the back of a truck during an election campaign rally in Baghdad. Iraq’s politicians, fearing that voters have wearied of speech-making that often proves to be little more than hot air, have hired a slew of singers to woo them. (AFP/Ahmad al-Rubaye)
Iraq just held its largest democratic election in history today.
Aswat Aliraq reported:Voting centers closed their doors at 05:00 p.m. on Sunday, capping the largest election ever in the history of Iraq, where nearly 19 million voters from the nation’s 18 provinces picked their favorites amongst 6200 candidates to occupy the new parliament’s 325 seats.
Nearly 10,000 voting centers comprising 52,000 stations closed their doors amidst acts of violence that claimed the lives of more than 24 Iraqis and wounded 10 others who have been casting their votes since 07:00 a.m. today (March 7).
The new parliament is comprised of 325 seats: 68 from Baghdad, 31 from Ninewa, 24 Basra, 18 Thi-Qar, 17 Sulaimaniya, 16 Babel, 14 Arbil, 14 Anbar, 13 Diala and 12 seats for each of Kirkuk, Salah al-Din and Najaf and 11 for Wassit and Diwaniya while Missan, Duhuk, Karbala and Missan will get 10 seats and Muthanna only 7.
==
Iraqi Police officers in Tikrit show their ink-stained index fingers after an early-voting session for election support personnel, March 4, 2010. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Petty Officer Michael Heckman)
Comments:
1) Reaganite Republican
If we had listened to Biden and Obama in 2006, Iraq would be an Al Qaida caliphate by now.
Of course, Iraqi freedom has stoked the flames of democracy in Iran, too… just like George W Bush told you it would.
2) bg
ht Winston in another thread..
A Vote of Thanks
[Democracy has transformed most Iraqis from people who either voted scared or were apathetic to Saddam’s fake election, into people who are driven to vote by a sense of ownership of their country.
Iraqis realize that their democracy is not the best, but they also know that practice makes perfect.
Since 2002 Iraqi elections have been evolving. While still not perfect, democracy is striking root.
Meanwhile, what Iraqis like me have learned is that transformation from autocracy to democracy would not have been possible without the 4,700 brave American and allied servicemen and women who lost their lives, and the many others who were wounded, for the sake of Iraq’s freedom.
Families of these heroes should know that many of us are grateful to their sons and daughters, and to the United States and its allies at large, even if they do not hear thank you often from Iraq or its leaders.
It is on days like Sunday that these sacrifices
most strongly comes to Iraqi minds.]It Has Always Been The Soldier
It is the soldier,
not the President who gives us democracy.It is the soldier,
not the Congress who takes care of us.It is the soldier,
not the Reporter who has given us Freedom of Press.It is the soldier,
not the Poet who has given us Freedom of Speech.It is the soldier,
not the campus [community] Organizer who
has given us the Freedom to Demonstrate.It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag;
who serves beneath the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
that allows the protester to burn the flag.~ Father Dennis O’Brien, US Marine Corp. Chaplain
Thank You GWB!
Thank You US/COTW!
God Bless Soldiers everywhere for putting THEIR
lives on the line to protect us ALL from terrorism!==
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/iraq-holds-largest-democratic-election-in-history/
-- March 10, 2010 2:02 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Was Bush (indirectly) right about Iraq?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010
TWN, The China Post news staffIt's a question that is almost paramount to heresy for members aligned with the U.S.'s political left, but recent developments in Iraq may indicate that the much-maligned former U.S. president may have been correct in his claims that the American-led invasion of Iraq planted a seed of democracy in the Middle East.
Former U.S. President George W. Bush was wrong about many things. But could it be that when historians sit down to debate the Bush presidency decades from now, their main focus will be to praise the former president for ordering an invasion that indirectly transformed the entire Middle East?Regardless of the debate, one less debatable fact is emerging: Iraq is ever so slowly becoming a democratic country. This is not to claim that Iraq has blossomed into a paradise of freedom where rights are respected and people no longer live in fear. Today the situation is still quite tumultuous. But despite all the negatives, shoots of democratic growth are being seen.
Speaking to CNN last week, best-selling author and CNN host Fareed Zakaria argued that the Iraqi parliamentary elections that took place last Sunday mark a watershed for the new Iraq for two reasons. “First, if Iraq is able to achieve some degree of consolidation in terms of its democracy, it will add dramatically to its political stability,” said Zakaria. “And the second is, if Iraq is able to consolidate as a democracy, it will mean there will have been some success in Iraq that we can point to for the vast investment and the vast expenditure of blood and treasure that the United States has put in. I'm not saying that you can make an easy statement that this justifies the invasion, I'm simply saying that there will be a very strong positive outcome in Iraq that will at least be set against the cost.”
There's no way of estimating when Iraq might become a full and genuine democracy on par with say, Germany or Japan. It could take half a century or perhaps even a full century. But ever more it is looking as if the “shock and awe” of invasion was required for progress towards democracy. This logic is of course anathema to many liberal Americans, many of whom believe it is impossible to export democracy and who condemn the United States for its sometimes self-righteous belief that it alone represents “true” democracy. But regardless of one's political philosophy it's hard to argue with results on the ground. In Iraq today, political parties are forming bonds and hashing out a kind of democracy that works for them. It's not perfect — it's not even pretty — but it is the beginnings of a modern democracy.
Those who loathed former President George W. Bush found little about his career to praise. Bush's time in office was marked by stumbling, both domestically and overseas. But could it be that George W. Bush will be remembered more for Iraqi democracy than his stumblings?
Over 4,000 military personnel from the US, UK and other nations have lost their lives since operation Iraqi Freedom began in 2003. It's heartening to see indications that history will view these brave fighting men and women as those who made the ultimate sacrifice to bring freedom to Iraq and perhaps eventually the entire region.
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/world-issues/2010/03/10/247592/p2/Was-Bush.htm
-- March 10, 2010 2:18 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Anynomous,
But he sounds so funny,.... I mean... imagine if you yourself would nail one foot to the floor and try to walk around....
The sound it makes......
-- March 10, 2010 3:00 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Roger,
Sara posted one article stating the position you agree with; in contrast, there were numerous articles in 2008 and 2009 stating the position of the lop. There have been more articles circulated in favor of my position than the position you hold. The Dinar will lop and your 25000 note will be a 25 note. I am right and you are wrong and by the end of the year I will be proved right.
-- March 10, 2010 10:46 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Rob N.
Trying to hit flies at the latrine in the Male restroom is of much higher interest, gotta go.
-- March 10, 2010 11:35 PM ∞
panhandler wrote:
YOU'RE NOT GETTING APPLES FOR ORANGES, YOU'RE GETTING POUND FOR POUND. . . LOP THE ZEROS, THEY ARE NOT DEVALUING THE DINAR. . .P.H.. . .GOT SOME NEW MEDS ROB. . .
-- March 11, 2010 12:00 AM ∞
Fly on a restroom wall wrote:
Man it stinks in here. Forget lopping the zeros, Rob. Open the door for heavens sake.
-- March 11, 2010 12:32 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Japanese fighter pilots for sure looped their Zeros.
Could be a snack.
-"Zero lops, Ranch or Jalape'nos, only 0.99C with purchase of a small fountain drink."
Could be a testical veterianry procedure.
-" Are my camels fixed now? Yes Ahmed, they are all zero loped"
Also, I don't think that it any shame at all that Rob N. on occasion, has to go and sit on his zero lop.
-- March 11, 2010 4:23 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Tight race...
===
Secularist list ahead in two Iraqi provinces
BAGHDAD
Thu Mar 11, 2010Officials count parliamentary election ballots at the tally centre in Baghdad March 10, 2010.
Credit: Reuters/Thaier al-SudaniBAGHDAD (Reuters) - A cross-sectarian, secularist alliance headed by former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is ahead in two Iraqi provinces north of Baghdad, early results from the country's electoral commission showed Thursday.
Initial results reflecting 17 percent of votes counted from Diyala, an ethnically mixed region northeast of Baghdad, and from largely Sunni Salahuddin province north of the capital showed the Iraqiya list solidly ahead of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's bloc and another largely Shi'ite group after national polls Sunday.
(Reporting by Ahmed Rasheed and Rania El Gamal)
-- March 11, 2010 12:03 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Maliki Holds Edge in Iraq, but Results Are Challenged
Saad Shalash/Reuters By MARC SANTORA
Published: March 11, 2010BAGHDAD — Early results in Iraq’s parliamentary elections on Thursday indicated that Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki’s coalition was likely to win a plurality in an exceedingly close race, according to Western and Iraqi officials.
Fierce protests by his opponents, however, appeared to delay an imminent official announcement of the preliminary results and threatened to undermine public acceptance of the outcome.
The initial results, the officials said, suggested a race between Mr. Maliki’s coalition; Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite and the leader of the Iraqiya coalition; and a Shiite coalition known as the Iraqi National Alliance. The Kurds, though divided, appeared poised to finish strongly as well, leaving the country’s political landscaped as fractured as ever.
Even as the results were about to be broadcast, one of the Iraqi National Alliance’s leaders, the former exile Ahmed Chalabi, called the vote-counting process itself into question, challenging both the transparency of the ballot counting and the computerized system being used to tabulate the votes.
On Thursday evening, as Mr. Allawi he was meeting with various ambassadors about the election crisis. representatives of his party held a news conference in Baghdad in which they alleged wide-ranging fraud in the voting process. They came armed with visual aids, including pictures and ballots that indicated votes for Iraqiya that they said were found abandoned in a schoolyard in Kirkuk.
“Votes for the Iraqiya list are in the garbage,” said Adnan al-Janabi, a candidate on the Iraqiya list from Baghdad.
Mr. Janabi said he did not know the extent of the alleged fraud. “One or one million, we don’t know.”
The accusations threw into chaos a carefully planned process — overseen by the United Nations — for counting and announcing the tallies from Sunday’s vote. The election of a new 325-member Parliament has been widely considered a major milestone for Iraq. The early indications of an exceedingly close contest made the formation of a new government even more complicated and potentially volatile.
“Whatever the end results, we know it will be a fierce struggle to form a government,” a Western official who had seen the early results said, speaking on condition of anonymity since only the electoral commission was authorized to announce any official results.
“It is a very close race,” the official said.
It was not immediately clear how long the challenges would delay the release of early results or what effect it might have on public acceptance of the eventual results. The chairman of the country’s election commission, Faraj al-Haidari, said in televised remarks that the initial results might take four or five more days to compile and announce, well behind the schedule worked out in consultation with the United Nations.
Even before the vote, there were accusations of intimidation and electoral irregularities, but there have not yet been claims of massive fraud on the scale that tainted Afghanistan’s election last year. Foreign election observers and American officials said that Sunday’s election was carried out with minimal problems or irregularities.
On Thursday, however, Mr. Chalabi swept into a meeting at the election commission’s headquarters to demand that candidates be allowed to review the votes and the computerized system for compiling them.
Mr. Chalabi, who campaigned heavily in Washington for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, holds no elected position but has already profoundly influenced the country’s election. In January he oversaw the process of disqualifying hundreds of candidates on charges they once belonged to Mr. Hussein’s Baath Party, a murky process that raised early doubts about transparency and maturity of the country’s democratic institutions.
As he spoke, election officials looked on with beleaguered and weary expressions and then adjourned, putting off what had been planned as an announcement of the first results.
Mr. Allawi’s coalition said it had filed dozens of complaints with the commission.
At the evening news conference, Iraqiya members struck at the heart of Iraq’s election process, claiming that workers at the state election commission, who have been entering data in to computer systems, were caught fiddling with Iraqiya’s tally. Mr. Janabi said that United Nations monitors caught the tampering, and notified Iraqiya.
Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.
The officials also alleged that Hayder al-Ebadi, a candidate from Mr. Maliki’s list, improperly visited the state election commission offices on Tuesday at 1:30 in the afternoon, and spent an hour-and-a-half.
Whatever the outcome of the challenges, the election appeared to leave the main coalitions in a virtual deadlock, with Mr. Maliki holding a lead, but not a commanding one.
He or a challenger will have to knit together a majority of seats into a coalition with enough of a majority to elect a new prime minister.
The Kurds, who have seen their political front fractured in recent months by internal divisions, seemed poised to hold onto a sizeable bloc of seats in the new, larger Parliament. They could emerge as the decisive faction if they can assemble a united front, according to one Western observer.
Already there have been signs that the coalitions that campaign together were fraying. Most of Iraq’s most powerful political parties joined them as a matter of convenience, and they could easily shift their loyalties.
“The coalitions never really coalesced,” the Western official said. “They are more like gatherings.”
Some of Iraq’s leading politicians signaled that they were open to new alliances, even with bitter opponents during the campaign.
“The State of Law coalition has drawn no red lines against any alliance,” said Ali al-Musawi, a media adviser to Mr. Maliki, referring to the prime minister’s coalition. “We stand equal distance from all of them. Everything is possible.”
Tim Arango contributed reporting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/world/middleeast/12iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
-- March 11, 2010 12:12 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Soon to be ON PAR with Saudi Arabia.. ?? Hmmm...
QUOTE:"Iraq's deals call for foreign firms to boost output potential to 12 million bpd in seven years, which would leave it snapping at the heels of Saudi Arabia's capacity of 12.5 million bpd."
And it, "could challenge Saudi Arabia's position as dominant producer with the flexibility to influence output significantly."
Making Iraq a "tsunami" yet to be grappled with in the future. But one which, if all plays out well, could benefit and not hurt the world OR oil exporters, quote, "If the market is very tight, with demand rising and non-OPEC supply continuing to disappoint, then Iraq could be accommodated quite well ... "
Hoping for a good outcome, for all, as we all know, quote, "The first test will be how the new government that emerges from Sunday's elections will handle contracts signed by oil firms. But assuming the deals survive intact and work can go ahead, Iraq's huge oilfields present little technical challenge to oil majors that have had to push into regions such as deep water and the Arctic to access oil reserves. There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.". :)
There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.
Sounds very good for Iraq, the world.. and the Iraqi Dinar's future, all things going well.
Sara.
===
ANALYSIS - OPEC may face Iraq challenge sooner than expected
Simon Webb and Jo Winterbottom | 2010-03-11 20:00:00/LONDON (Reuters) - The storm brewing on OPEC's horizon over future Iraqi oil output could engulf the producer group sooner than it would like.
OPEC was unlikely to discuss Iraq at its meeting on March 17 but it may need to do so within a couple of years.
"There's only one issue, but it's a big one. It's a tsunami. Iraq," said Leo Drollas at the Centre for Global Energy Studies.
After years of sanctions and war, Iraq is exempt from the output targets OPEC uses to set supply levels.
But as Baghdad embarks on an unprecedented oil industry development, OPEC will at some point need to bring Iraq back into the fold to prevent millions of barrels of new oil supply undoing its work to balance markets.
OPEC officials and analysts have said the issue is not urgent, as it could be years before Iraq makes significant increases to current output of around 2.5 million barrels per day (bpd). Baghdad's failure to reach past ambitious targets has fed the scepticism.
The consensus among analysts is that it would take around 5 years for Iraq to boost output by between 1 million bpd and 1.5 million bpd.
But output gains could surprise OPEC in their speed.
"You could be looking at 1.5 million barrels in two years," said a senior executive at one of the oil firms involved in Iraq. "That could make a huge difference to the supply and demand balance. Is there going to be that kind of demand pick up in that timeframe?"
Iraq's deals call for foreign firms to boost output potential to 12 million bpd in seven years, which would leave it snapping at the heels of Saudi Arabia's capacity of 12.5 million bpd.
Iraq faces huge political, security and logistical challenges in reaching that target. The first test will be how the new government that emerges from Sunday's elections will handle contracts signed by oil firms.
But assuming the deals survive intact and work can go ahead, Iraq's huge oilfields present little technical challenge to oil majors that have had to push into regions such as deep water and the Arctic to access oil reserves. There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.
Reaching 12 million bpd in seven years appears improbable, but oil firms believe early gains will be easy.
The terms of the contracts Iraq has signed encourage firms to boost output quickly to recover costs. Once firms boost output from producing fields by 10 percent, they start getting paid.
"The way the contract is structured is to incentivise swift progress," said Bill Farren-Price of consultancy Petroleum Policy Intelligence. "I'm fairly optimistic that we'll see Iraqi oil output rising over the next 12 months as Rumaila and other projects get underway."
Iraq has said it expects another 200,000 bpd of oil from fields leased under the new contracts this year. Its biggest producing field, Rumaila, should rise 100,000 bpd by July. BP and CNPC won the contract to boost output at Rumaila, the workhorse of Iraq's oil industry to 2.85 million bpd from 1.07 million bpd.
WHAT CAN OPEC TOLERATE?
OPEC, which has weathered many difficulties in its 50-year history including a bitter war between members Iran and Iraq, will likely put off thorny negotiations on how to accommodate a resurgent Iraq as long as possible.
"It's the last thing they want to do (tackle this issue), the want to sweep it under the carpet," said Drollas of the CGES.
When the group calls on Iraq to rejoin the depends on how quickly oil demand rebounds after two years of contraction due to the global economic downturn.
"If the market is very tight, with demand rising and non-OPEC supply continuing to disappoint, then Iraq could be accommodated quite well ... But if demand falls then it would be a very big challenge for OPEC," said Bassam Fattouh at Oxford Energy.
Even if the market could absorb the extra production, other OPEC producers would have to maintain curbs on supply in place since late 2008, while Iraq pumped more.
This would create tensions within the group as other members effectively give up market share and billions of dollars of potential revenues to Iraq.
Baghdad has said that it believes OPEC should allow it to pump more without imposing a quota as it has lost market share and revenues to other members of the group as years of sanctions and war prevented Iraq from achieving its production potential.
OPEC officials have said they would need to think about quotas once Iraq showed it can consistently pump 3 million to 3.5 million bpd.
Some say the group would have to address the issue if Iraq's output approached 5 million bpd -- putting it ahead of Iran and making Baghdad the second largest OPEC producer after Riyadh.
That could challenge Saudi Arabia's position as dominant producer with the flexibility to influence output significantly.
"As Iraq substantially exceeds Iran's production level it will raise significant political problems for OPEC as a whole and for Saudi Arabia in particular," said Edward Morse, head of global commodities research at Credit Suisse.
Iraq has strengthened its hand for future negotiations with the oil deals. Previous production targets have been based on reserves. Iraq's reserves are a little smaller than Iran's, so a renewed quota might be similar to that of its neighbour. Iran's target is around 3.34 million bpd, although Tehran disputes that and is pumping around 3.75 million bpd.
But Iraq would likely refuse to be saddled with that comparison, as the deals it has signed would put it on a par with Saudi capacity, regardless of its reserves. It would likely use that as a starting point for negotiations, analysts say.
-- March 11, 2010 12:39 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Early Iraq results: PM battling secular challenger
By LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer
Mar 11 2010BAGHDAD – Partial vote results in Iraq's historic election released Thursday showed a tight contest between the nation's prime minister, who had the lead in two provinces in the mainly Shiite south, and a secular challenger who appeared to be drawing on Sunni support north of Baghdad.
The preliminary tallies from five of Iraq's 18 provinces were a setback to hard-line religious Shiite political leaders who have close ties to Iran. But results for the big prize — Baghdad — have yet to be released.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's bloc was ahead with over a third of the votes counted in the mainly Shiite provinces of Babil and Najaf where his rival Shiite religious coalition had hoped to make gains. The Iraqiya list, which is led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite, took the lead in the former Sunni insurgent strongholds of Diyala and Salahuddin.
Results from a fifth province, Irbil, were also released showing the Kurdish Alliance, which joins the two main Kurdish parties, beating out the upstart Kurdish party, Gorran, in the self-rule territory.
In Babil province, al-Maliki's political bloc won about 42 percent of the estimated 160,870 votes that have been counted so far, according to the data released by the election commission. In neighboring Najaf province, al-Maliki's win was even stronger — about 47 percent of the ballot count of 116,600 votes.
But al-Maliki appeared to be lagging far behind Allawi's list in the central provinces of Salahuddin, which is mostly Sunni, and Diyala, which has a mixed population of Sunnis, Shiites and Turkomen.
With only 17 percent of the ballots counted — far below the 30 percent threshhold that election officials had said would be the standard for releasing results — Iraqiya had about 55 percent of the vote in Diyala and 60 percent in Salahuddin.
At the election headquarters in Baghdad, scores of journalists jostled for a view of the vote counts as they were posted on big-screen TVs. Election officials appeared overwhelmed by the task of counting and reporting the vote, and seemed to have underestimated how long it would take. The election commission did not post the results on a Web site or make them otherwise accessible to the public, although the state-run TV channel reported the tallies Thursday evening.
Election officials said they had received about 1,000 complaints about the election process so far, although gave no indication as to what the complaints were about.
The Iraqi National Alliance, which is Iraq's top Shiite religious coalition, came in second in both of the southern provinces. The INA is made up of two main political parties — the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council and the political party led by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
A win in Babil and Najaf provinces would represent an improvement for al-Maliki's coalition over last year's provincial election.
The election news came as al-Maliki's office Thursday announced that the prime minister underwent surgery the day before for what an aide described Thursday as a "simple" procedure. The prime minister has already been released from the hospital and is back at work, the statement said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=AtP2Nd4x3GqfARu9vUsxeRxxieAA;_ylu=X3oDMTJuZ2lqNWw1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzExL21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDcmFuZG9tBGNwb3MDNwRwb3MDNwRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2Vhcmx5aXJhcXJlcw
-- March 11, 2010 2:05 PM ∞
The Green Machine wrote:
The beginning of the end of oil as a valuable commodity:
From Greentech Media:
"Green Kingpins Part 2: Craig Venter of Synthetic Genomics
“We are at the early stages of seeing what biology can do.”
By the time they are done, J. Craig Venter of Synthetic Genomics and KR Sridhar of Bloom Energy will have raised more than a billion dollars of venture investment between the two of them. Both of these men are world-class entrepreneurs with world-class investor backing.
They spoke at the Wall Street Journal ECO:nomics event last week. The men are in very different markets and deal with very different sciences. But both are both taking on enormous technical and societal challenges and huge markets while armed with big war chests -- and big egos.
Craig Venter is a visionary who led the effort to sequence the human genome and now he's working on an equally world-changing project: Using algae to go directly from CO2 to hydrocarbons.
In July of last year, Synthetic Genomics announced a $300 million agreement with Exxon to research and develop next generation biofuels using photosynthetic algae. That investment will occur over a number of years -- but that's still a lot of cash. It's more than the total amount of venture capital invested in algae startups since 2005. A drop in the bucket for Exxon but still, big money.
Here's what Venter had to say: "We are at the early stages of seeing what biology can do."
Venter has come up an idea to trick algae into pumping more lipids out. He also claims to have "engineered algae to continuously pump out hydrocarbons," which eliminates much of the cost and energy-intensity of conventional algae oil farming. If that can be done, economically and at scale -- it is absolutely disruptive.
Venter understands the challenge confronting him (and every other algae oil aspirant), saying, "The real bugaboo is scale." Exxon is ready to invest $600 million but "the next phase will require billions."
Venter speaks in a matter-of-fact manner about his activities but beneath that calm tone are mind-bending ideas straight out of science-fiction novels. Venter has already created the first cell with a synthetic DNA gene. If not exactly creating life, Venter is bending the genetic code to do his bidding. He said that he is "going from the four-letter genetic code of A, C, G and T to the binary codes of ones and zeros."
He is "amassing a genetic database...continually learning to write the genetic code" and "treating the genetic code as a raw material." By "changing the DNA software in the cell, the cell converts to a new species." In Venter's words, "The concept of life is changing." He's looking to "design a new algae from scratch with two to three times more efficiency."
Venter is still determining what types of algae to use and whether it is more efficient to grow them in open ponds or in closed containers called bioreactors -- and that's telling. If these are still questions at Synthetic Genomics and Exxon (i.e., how to grow the algae and which species or strain to use), then these firms have betrayed that we are still very early in the research portion of the program; we are not yet at the development part of the R&D equation.
In Venter's "optimistic" estimation, it will take roughly a decade to get to scale on CO2 to fuel. But "once the proof of concept is done, this will move rapidly."
There remain many problems with algae -- it's not just a matter of tricking the algae to pump more lipids out or to secrete hydrocarbons. There's an entire process chain in algae farming that needs to be optimized -- algae growth, water issues, nutrient issues and more.
But Venter is a man of action and it's not a good bet to wager against him"
Conclusion: The Arabs better get their act together. They have a couple of decades at most, to live off oil. Then it's all over, and they have to work for a living, like the rest of us. 20 years is not a long time. Soon no one will want their oil. No one will be willing to fight over it. It will be worthless.
-- March 11, 2010 2:46 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq PM in tight contest with ex-premier for poll lead
AFP - Friday, March 12BAGHDAD (AFP) - – Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was in a tight contest to keep his job as he vied with ex-premier Iyad Allawi, initial election results from four of the country's 18 provinces showed Thursday.
Four days after the election, Maliki and Allawi, both Shiite, have emerged nationally as the main candidates for the post of prime minister, with their blocs appearing to have fared best in Sunday's polls.
Complete results are expected to be announced on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.
Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.
Several blocs called on Thursday for individual polling station tally sheets to be published online, expressing concerns the nationwide vote would not be in line with the total from individual stations.
Were the polling station tally sheets posted online, political blocs could check to see if their sum corresponded with the nationwide results tabulated by the election commission.
"I am not saying there has been fraud but we fear that the results could have been modified," said Maysun Damaluji, spokeswoman for the Iraqiya bloc and a candidate for parliament.
"The count is not being conducted in a proper fashion," Damaluji said, claiming that some party observers had been evicted from counting rooms. No election official was immediately available to comment on the allegations.
The INA added in its own statement that it was concerned over "signs of intentions to change the election results."
"We call on the commission to put the tally sheets of each province on the commission's website so that candidates and political entities will be able to count their votes manually," it said.
Electoral authorities have received around 1,000 complaints, according to Hamdiyah al-Husseini, an election official.
http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/afp/20100312/twl-iraq-vote-575b600.html
-- March 11, 2010 5:34 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Quote: .. " in Brussels, the point-man for European Parliament relations with Iraq accused top Iraqi electoral commission figures of rigging the election at Iran's behest. "
===
Iraq PM in tight contest with ex-premier Iyad Allawi for poll lead
AFP, Mar 12, 2010BAGHDAD: Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was in a tight contest to keep his job as he vied with ex-premier Iyad Allawi, initial election results from four of the country's 18 provinces showed Thursday.
Four days after the election, Maliki and Allawi, both Shiite, have emerged nationally as the main candidates for the post of prime minister, with their blocs appearing to have fared best in Sunday's polls.
In the autonomous region of Kurdistan, meanwhile, Kinaani said the Kurdistania alliance, made up of the region's two long-dominant parties, was in the lead in Arbil province with 27 percent of votes counted.
Kurdistania is made up of regional president Massud Barzani's Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.
In second place was the opposition Goran bloc ("Change" in Kurdish), which surprised observers by snaring nearly a quarter of the vote in Kurdish regional elections last year.
Complete results are expected to be announced on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.
Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.
Several blocs called on Thursday for individual polling station tally sheets to be published online, expressing concerns the nationwide vote would not be in line with the total from individual stations.
Were the polling station tally sheets posted online, political blocs could check to see if their sum corresponded with the nationwide results tabulated by the election commission.
The INA added in its own statement that it was concerned over "signs of intentions to change the election results."
"We call on the commission to put the tally sheets of each province on the commission's website so that candidates and political entities will be able to count their votes manually," it said.
Electoral authorities have received around 1,000 complaints, according to Hamdiyah al-Husseini, an election official.
And in Brussels, the point-man for European Parliament relations with Iraq accused top Iraqi electoral commission figures of rigging the election at Iran's behest.
"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," said British conservative MEP Struan Stevenson in a statement.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Iraq-PM-in-tight-contest-with-ex-premier-Iyad-Allawi-for-poll-lead/articleshow/5673838.cms
-- March 11, 2010 7:56 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Election still unknown, some small indicators start to show up, but it is one of those early bird indicators that has discussion valye only.
Iraq oil output of 12 mill barrels....pretty high goals, will lead to a lot of changes in the worlds oil market.
That is an emergence of Iraq as the Gulf strongman, Saui Arabia will not be able to sustain it's production level, and in the long run they will be over taken by Iraq.
Yes one day the oil will be either used up, or substituted, as one blogger so frankly stated here, but the statement that this is only 20 years away, that is too soon to change around , but I will give it 50 years perhaps.
-- March 11, 2010 8:08 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger posted: Yes one day the oil will be either used up, or substituted, as one blogger so frankly stated here, but the statement that this is only 20 years away, that is too soon to change around , but I will give it 50 years perhaps.
I agree, Roger. One day there will be demand for an alternate when we are almost out of oil and then "miraculously" someone will find the answer, an alternative. But oil is cheap now and not likely to be taken by storm overnite. Until then, say.. 50 years or so from now.. the idea of alternates is still just a "pipe dream." I don't mind it when individuals believe in some pipe dream and put their money into one as a private venture. More power to em.. hope they find an alternate and make it rich. I only object when it is the Government doing it with the people's tax revenues.. they are not supposed to be in business. That is not the role of government, to make a buck. Government competition with the private sector, whether it be in energy or car sales is a breach of trust with the public and a conflict of interest. Which is what Toyota said recently, including this comment, "As an American citizen, it is tough on my part to pay tax dollars to an entity that can turn around and use those tax dollars to get my fellow American citizens to not do business with me,":
===
Toyota Dealers Fight Back Against "Predatory Tactics" by GM say they're upset that their tax money is being used to lure away their customers
By Jim Forsyth
Monday, March 8, 2010The head of the Toyota National Dealer Council today blasted the federal government for using 'taxpayer dollars' to fund incentive campaigns to lure customers away from Toyota, and accused GM of using ‘fear’ in an attempt to lure away its customers, 1200 WOAI news reports.
"As an American citizen, it is tough on my part to pay tax dollars to an entity that can turn around and use those tax dollars to get my fellow American citizens to not do business with me," Paul Atkinson, who owns Atkinson Toyota in Bryan Texas, and is President of the dealer council, tells 1200 WOAI news.
Atkinson says when General Motors was going through bankruptcy last Spring, Toyota behaved in a 'compassionate way,' and did not use GM's uncertain future as a 'lever to steal its customers.' But he says now that GM has been strengthened with taxpayer money, it is using 'low blow tactics' to hurt his business.
"The government owns 60% of General Motors, and these American tax dollars are funding business activity for one company, with the express goal of negatively impacting another company," Atkinson said today.
Atkinson specifically cited GM dealer mailings which he says have been targeted at existing Toyota owners. He called it ‘a nationwide predatory advertising campaign that uses fear in an attempt to lure customers away from Toyota and Lexus dealers.’
"There are some mailing lists which have been given to dealers, and there have been some mailers, in fact, I've seen several of them," he said. "On the outside of the envelope it says 'important Toyota recall information enclosed.' But when you open up that envelope, it is nothing more than an advertisement trying to get you to come trade your Toyota in at a GM store."
Atkinson calls those 'predatory incentives,' which he says should not be allowed to be employed by a company which is majority owned by US taxpayers against another company which employs hundreds of thousands of Americans.
"We will be sending letters out to Senators and Congressmen, as well as (Transportation) Secretary (Ray) LaHood," Atkinson said. "It's really unfair that American citizens have to fund this."
Atkinson also suggested that the recent Congressional hearings and federal government concern over Toyota's accelerator problems may have been sparked less by a desire to protect the public, and more by a desire to protect the federal government's investment in GM.
"There is a list of twenty manufacturers on these recall lists, and Toyota is number 17," he quoted several members of Congress and telling him privately. "If we're having hearings on number 17, what are they doing about numbers 1 through 16?"
Atkinson said business at Toyota dealerships was down 10% in January and down 8% in February, but the dealerships are standing behind Toyota products.
"Despite all of this, we outsold all of the other manufacturers in February except for one," he said. "Let's get these numbers in perspective. Sure, our sales are down, but we are outselling a lot of other brands."
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6855247
-- March 12, 2010 1:34 AM ∞
The Green Machine wrote:
Sara said: "the idea of alternates is still just a "pipe dream."
Sara: How do you know the idea of alternatives is just a pipe dream? Do you know more than Exxon, who are investing hundreds of millions, and soon to be billions, in a "pipe dream"? People who run oil companies are making these decisions, to invest in research, looking for alternatives, and these are hard nosed business people who know energy, know what it costs, and are making educated guesses as to what might be practical, with a bit more research. Do you really think you know so much about energy that you can pre-ordain what another decade of research by dedicated scientists into energy alternatives will bring? Especially when they don't fully know themselves? You think you know more than them? Your statement would indicate you think you do....Sara, Your arrogance is only exceeded by your idiocy. Your comments are completely idiotic, Sara. You should apologize to common sense for that remark.
And then Sara said: "One day there will be demand for an alternate when we are almost out of oil and then "miraculously" someone will find the answer, an alternative"....oh, I see, Sara, some magic fairy appears, waves her wand, clicks her ruby slippers three times, tells everyone they are not in Kansas anymore, sprinkles some Jesus dust around, and "miraculously" an alternative appears...no need for Exxon to spend hundreds of billions in research and development....all that thinking is just too hard, when magic will do!....grow up Sara, life doesn't work like that. How old are you anyhow? Six?
You're just a naive suckup for the status quo. And Obama is running the show now, not John McSenile, so governmental money, and lots of it, will be spent looking for alternatives. There's nothing you can do about it. You are powerless. And after nearing wrecking the economy, those loser Republicans were kicked out, on their ass, and won't get back for 20 years, 30 if we're lucky. They too are powerless. So you can go on harping all you want, but YOUR TAX DOLLARS will continue to be used to fund energy research, and there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it.... You seem to think elections are God's will...ok...If elections are God's will, then God must think Republicans are now losers, and not fit to govern. I sure think so, and I guess God agrees with me!....stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!
-- March 12, 2010 3:23 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
If now, our Gov owns 60% of GM, the mental picture I just got, is how a Gov employee will conduct himself when he is selling these Gov vehicles.
Big square pattern jacket and white shoes, that is a given, and the sales technique thorougly examined by the Gov better business advisory council.
This might be a prelude to the Soviet era car production, and sales distribution, where the citizen had to line up ten years before they get their car.
R. Reagan told that joke to Gorby, when the Soviet citizen desperately needed to know if the car was delivered before or after lunch.
"-Why does that matter, its ten years from now?"....-"Well, I need to know, my plumber comes after lunch"
About energy, well I'm with you, we have fossile fuel for now, and it seems like the awareness of getting a different fuel is pretty high right now, some call it the green movement, I call it common sense.
Most probbly a pretty long development will take place in where they make the combustion engine more efficient, or it is used in combination with batteries and the electric motor.
It's pretty obvious that the quickest way to save gas, or as the modern word is now, "leave a lesser carbon footprint" (wow that sounds really on top of things), is to favor smaller vehicles.
In that respect, the technology and production is ready in place, both in Europe, Japan and Korea.
Here in the US, the trend has only started, but I se much smaller cars on the street today, than I did only five years ago, plus the SUV craze where you have to have an SUV with a rope ladder to reach the door, and basketboll court inside, is gone now. That is a great sign, there is for sure a need for a few of those here and there, but all in all, regular Joe, don't need it to commute bumper to bumper.
The car in itself IS freedom, and if you would ask regular Joe, to either stop using gas or take the commute train, he will for sure find a tird alternative that will involve keeping his car.
He would most probably go with a smaller car, if the other option is the communal commute.
He would most probably smile when he remember his 350 small block, but will do everything to continue to drive his car, even if it is now driven by propane, hydroxy fuel cell, hybrid double ram transducer engine with zero slip transmission, and emission comparable with what a bat will breath out in a full years lifespan...
He will choose the car over anything.
That is also the field where most pressure on oil is excerted.
That is also the field where emission laws are most stringient.
Plus, lets not forget, that is also the field that will hit the consumer in the pocket in a straight and visible way.
So even if oil consumption itself is a wide area to cover, one of the best indicators in new technology is in the automotive field.
The 70's had a false start when it came to inovative designs that would help lessening the oil dependancy, but the electronic development was not up to par in those days, and most projects ended up as a frontpage in Popular Mechanics, and then, never to be seen again.
Today, the development for a more efficient ride have truly taken off, the needed electronics is today up to par, and this time all the big car manufacturers are on board.
Europe have been running clean diesel technology for some time, and over half of the cars over there are diesels. Hard to picture it, but small economy cars with maybe a 12 to 1400 cc engine with fuel mileage in the 50 to 70 mpg range have been buzzing around there for a long time.
It's consumer expectancy, over here a small car, is considered a mid size in Europe.
But, the consumer expectancy is built on what you push.
Mid to late 1990's the car commercials were full of big, bigger and biggest SUV's, (ours is bigger than theirs) that was pushed, and of course, that's what sells.
A sales campaign here pushing small cars will do the trick.
Suddenly, having a small car is "cool" and having a battleship is sooooo wrong.
A complete independence from oil will probably take quite some time, as even if the cars are gettng more efficient, and uses much less gas, the volume of them will keep the world thirsty for oil.
Emerging markets will keep the oil flowing for quite some time. In many of those countries, the evolution in efficiency or pollution control, have not even started.
A big town in India or China (or Baghdad, your pick) is a smog producer of big magnitude.
The prospective oil from Iraq, will easily find markets, so from the perspective of a sudden worldly disinterest in oil overnight....with the result that Iraq and all the other oil producing nations will do maintenace on their oil installations... like....keep the rodents away...and keep the cobwebs from the office building....and chase away nesting birds from the pipes....and the Iraqi Dinar will plumet, because of no oil sale.....well, as I say I will probably have to wait for another 50 years before I will asess the situation again.
That is not to say I don't welcome new ways to use energy. I really welcome any new approach.
-- March 12, 2010 3:41 AM ∞
The Green Machine wrote:
I think technology is changing far faster than in the past, including green energy technology. In the past, it might have taken 50 years to get off oil. But now, there are more scientists alive today, than the rest of human history combined. and many of them are interested in getting off oil. This means a lot more will happen, quicker than people expect. And then Americans can continue to drive big cars, but do it cleanly. This guy agrees with me:
Vinod Khosla: In energy, ignore the experts
by Martin LaMonicaNATIONAL HARBOR, Md.--Monkeys throwing darts have the same predictive powers as experts forecasting the price of oil or when grandmas will surf the Web with mobile phones, says Vinod Khosla.
The high-profile investor, who raised over $1 billion for a green-technology fund last year, argued here Wednesday that technology change in energy will happen faster than most expect because energy has now become a focus on technical innovation.
Khosla spoke at the ARPA-E Summit, a conference dedicated to showcasing breakthrough clean-energy technologies, where he challenged attendees to think big.
As an example of missed forecasts, he cited McKinsey's 1980 prediction that there would be fewer than 1 million mobile phones sold in 2000 when the actual number was over 100 million. Handicapping the price of oil, too, is often off-target because experts' assumptions are wrong.
"It's technology change that people miss and fail to forecast and I see that happening all over again in energy," he said. "A better way to forecast the future is to invent it because it's been proven that extrapolating the past doesn't work."
Not surprisingly, Khosla cited examples of companies that he is funding to demonstrate how technology can tackle the primary challenges in energy, which he said are coal, oil, materials, and efficiency.
Calera, for example, is a company that uses carbon dioxide as a feedstock to make building materials, such as concrete. Another is Kior, which is making gasoline and diesel replacements from wood.
His investment philosophy is to seek companies that can create technologies that compete with fossil fuels on price and can be scaled. Making biodiesel from restaurant grease, for example, is not "relevant scale" and selling hybrids to consumers in India and China is unlikely to happen because the price tag is so much higher than that on gasoline cars, he said.
Regarding policy, Khosla said the transformation of the energy industry will happen even if the U.S. does not put a price on carbon as a way of lowering total emissions. "A carbon price will definitely help...The right policies will definitely accelerate innovation and likely make the U.S. more competitive," he said.
More important is that energy has become a focus for innovation, particularly among young people and start-up companies.
"I think we're doing all the right things," he said. "The most important thing we did is make energy an interesting area for Ph.D. students over the last five years."
-- March 12, 2010 4:17 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
I just want to propose a perspective here, when it comes to oil dependency.
Go to YouTube, and pull up a couple of street scenes from Mumbai, Jakarta or China.
Think that is packed, just look at any rat race in the Americas, may it be Mexico, US or Canada. Europe is packed with cars, any continent is smack dang packed with them.
If new and more efficent resources are developed, that is nice and ducky, but when those are developed to cover the sheer VOLUME needed, then and only then do we have an alternative.
If you throw a couple of millions into a research project, for that money you will get a couple of cisterns, some pumps, pipes and other hardware, some office buildings, (usually prefabs) gravel yard, porta johns and a break room with a fridge, with a lot of notes on it telling you to not leave food, and where they will never fix the A/C.
They will get a fence, and a low wage guard that never knows anything and have to be woken up if you want to ask a question. He's darn good in pushing the button that raises and lower the boom.
The research team is not a government team, it is a corporate team, they are just using he govt money ( our money)
to do the research, but as it is initiated by a corporation the research result will have many years time lag before they can be seen by public, propriarity knowledge is governed very heavily.This to ensure that if the reserch is showing good results, the corporation that initiated the research with our tax money , will get the very first investment opportunity into it.
That corporation will then develop the technology further, and that part will stay with the corporation.
If the results are not too good, or it shows that it is not feasable to develop, a shut down is then logical. The point of shut down will however depend on how long time the gov will pay for the research. So all the corporation need to show is "progress" and the money will keep coming.
Research money is just that, the entity the government finance, will exist as long as the government will feed it.
Last known illness that was actually cured, was Polio.
Late -40's early 50's.
60 years ago....again, 60 years ago.
Since then we have invested billions and billions in research for Cancer, Aids, Flu, you name it.
There will not be a cure for Cancer, Aids or Flu, because a cure means that the entity financed (fed) by the government will die.
So that's what government research are doing.
They don't cure anything, and they don't come up with anything that makes them say.....-"We're done"
But they are darn good researcher, so THAT is what they do. They research....Nothing else.
The Government have an idea that they wanto to solve something, so they throw money at it.
They've done it over and over again, and will most probably continue to write checks to solve their political agendas.
Right now the key words are "Energy, grenhouse gasses, oil dependency, global warming and organic food"
Say those words and the politicians of today, being in a hypnotic trance, will write you a check with our money.
Don't steal, the Government hates competition.
-- March 12, 2010 4:44 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Yes technology will develp faster today then in the past, that I agree with, as we have been able to computerize research into gigantic equations that can be solved in a flash. Earlier research was done by hand, pen and paper.
The knowledge of running stuff on Hydrogen, doing fuel from algae, or corn or whatever is already known.
We can of course still develop it further, but the basic knowledge needed to take a decision is already here. We can even go back to steam engines, or develop Stirling engines, all that stuff have been around for very long time.
It's not the knowledge that you can run a car on cornoil, algea or whatever, it is the whole distribution network all around the world that needs to be built up.
I have been running my diesel on old restaurant grease, and have built a couple of hydrogen cells. So I know it can be done.
But, it's not the knowledge that it can be done.
Take Hydrogen for example, exhaust, pure water.
Fuel...oceans....water.
Can't get any better than that.
It's the ....do it.
Build up a world wide distribution system, fully in par with all the oil pumps in oilfields, oilrefineries, pipelines, oil rigs, tanker boats, harbors, and gas stations all around the world.
Powerplants generating Hydrogen, delivery, storage, fuelingstations etc...and not much from the oil infrastructure is compatiable, and it has to be big enough to fuel ALL of the worlds vehicles.
Do THAT.
It will not happen as long as there is a system already in place, like oil or not. Like new technology or not.
I hope it will happen, but it will take an investment of such a magnitude that this world have never seen before.
Tell that to a congress that are already up in debt over their ears. And that is only in this country. We (the world) have to invest in the new fuel delivery system all over the world.
No... the politicians will, as usually, take the cheap way out and toss money to research projects, that will be payed by you and me, and never come up with a product... a five years study in algaes, corn, pickles or whatever, then and only then, can the guys in Washinton sleep.
They always take the cheap way out.... constantly.
-- March 12, 2010 5:31 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
WHOA HERE IT COMES'
Shibibi, the President of CBI told IMF that Iraq will create an interbank exchange system for the Iraqi Dinar out side the framework of auctins held.
Interbank exchange system is nothing but pure Forex.
Forex is nothing but an interbank currency exchange system. THAT word is the definition of Forex.
Looking good looking good.
-- March 12, 2010 7:28 AM ∞
Franko wrote:
Yea Buddy!
Thanks for that piece of info, I needed that.
Franko
-- March 12, 2010 10:08 AM ∞
wrote:
Here comes Santa Claus!
Here comes Santa Claus!
Right down Santa Claus Lane!
He's got a bag that is filled with toys
for the boys and girls again.
Hear those sleigh bells jingle jangle,
What a beautiful sight.
Jump in bed, cover up your head,
'Cause Santa Claus comes tonight.-- March 12, 2010 12:43 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Roger, Bloom Boxes have a hydrogen storage unit, for the home, for the car, etc, that will be a commercial product in 10 years. All hydrogen will be produced in the home, so there is less of a need for a distribution system for hydrogen. You Tube has some good videos on it.
Research will bring many surprises. It always does. Who would have predicted the invention of the light bulb? The airplane? Very few. Keep throwing lots of money into research, and surprising and very cheap answers will eventually emerge. A hundred years ago, the world you and I know didn't exist. A hundred years from now, our world will disappear and a better world, with technology undreamed of today will appear. But only if people have vision and put money into basic research.
My guess is, the problem of electrical energy storage will be solved, and the world will run on electricity, not hydrogen. That will likely be far cheaper than hydrogen, is my guess. But we'll see.
Where will the answers come from? Private enterprise won't do this. Its the role of government to fund the future. And the role of inventors is to invent the future. Private enterprise is run by practical people who are not dreamers. Business people make the existing world work, but can't create a new world. They don't have it in them. A new world will be created by the dreamers and tinkerers, not by most business people, and not by corporate suck-ups like Sara, who have no imagination.
Once the future is created, and it's cheap, then even your average gutless, stupid politician will go along with it.
-- March 12, 2010 1:02 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Green Machine/Doc Doomy;
Hey, I said they would find an alternate.. and they will. Pretty obviously there are big players involved in this, as you pointed out. And they will wait.. until the oil runs out to "miraculously" introduce their new product. But they are developing them now, so it isn't pixie dust. Your invectives and pejoratives notwithstanding, you proved my points. It is no fairy tale making this work, it is hard nosed business sense. And they won't introduce their alternates until they use up what they are already selling. That is the way business works. You don't leave yourself with a bunch of dead stock (oil). How dare you bring Jesus' name into your discourse against me just because I am a Christian, calling it "Jesus dust". What disrespect you show toward my God. It is you who has a lot of growing up to do and ability to learn tolerance and respect for other points of view than your own. As you said, "Obama is running the show now, not John Mc, so governmental money, and lots of it, will be spent looking for alternatives." EXACTLY, that was my point. Instead of the private sector you said was looking into a proper business model and how to find and then bring it market.. the government will do the work.. and we all know how great government bureaucracy works in getting and delivering private sector services. As for your juvenile rant about, "YOUR TAX DOLLARS will continue to be used to fund energy research, and there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." That is below despicable. I only hope Americans wake up to their choices and private sector being taken over by big government and won't take it and continue to SUFFER under such insidious stupidity. As for God giving people what they deserve.. it was listening to the likes of you which put America into the mess she is in now.. maybe one day, very soon, we will see these same Americans regretting that mistake enough to make the right choice - God never forces His will on any people. They missed His choice last time, hopefully they will look for His will and choose it this time around. Otherwise they can live with the consequences of putting people in power like you.. and just "suffer" while such folks as you laugh with their "ha, ha, so there.. learn to live with it" mentality.
Roger - well said. When you state about how backward the government would be selling cars. Also I note you stated, "The 70's had a false start when it came to inovative designs that would help lessening the oil dependancy, most projects ended up as a frontpage in Popular Mechanics, and then, never to be seen again." I feel that will most likely be the fate of the government trying its hand at the energy sector. No different than the jokes of cars coming from the soviet union, they just won't get a model which works. And they will keep on funding and funding and funding it. There is no "fail" with a government product. So whatever loser project they make up will be on the cover of Popular Mechanics for years as the taxpayer funds a losing enterprise and all the government lobbyists will tell those in power what a great product they have so they keep on pumping the tax dollars their way. Meanwhile, people with any common sense will know and believe otherwise and not buy their failed policies (a new cash for clunkers, anyone?). The government sees PRIVATE enterprise doing a great job and working great innovation so they say, "We want a piece of that action" and jump in. It is like they look at third world dictators and say enviously to themselves how wonderful it would be to have Saddam's palace and all the oil production to themselves and be seen as "rock stars" in their own nation. That is their goals, not the proper use of governmental powers. They want rock stardom and cash.. the Michael Jacksons of government enterprise. But just wait until the government gets into competition with the private sector in energy and then watch a debacle like America has never seen. We all know how well Communism works for supplying the needs of the people in the past. And America lets her out of control Congress and executive branches take her resources and take over her industry, aping the colosus of Rome, which rightly fell from its own internal corruption.
As you said, "I welcome new ways to use energy. I really welcome any new approach." But, you point out, that won't affect the investment in the Dinar which is based on oil being found and developed in Iraq. It will take a lot more time than our generation to exhaust the oil reserves and only AFTER that happens will the alternates be viable and worth pursuing.. for anyone with a brain in their heads.. of which you cannot count a government bureaucracy. AFTER the government fails miserably, and misspends HUGE amounts of taxpayer cash.. only then will they give up their knight in shining armor mentality of trying to save the world from bogus Global Warming and a bogus "need" to make alternates work while we have cheap oil on hand. Then rationality will kick in.. if they don't go bankrupt attempting this stupidity first.
Doc Doom/Greenie Machine - The title of your article says an awful lot, "In energy, ignore the experts". Like, this is really the best way to go. After all, they are only EXPERTS because.. why?
What a travesty this young rich man has for a mentality when he says, quote, "Regarding policy, Khosla said the transformation of the energy industry will happen even if the U.S. does not put a price on carbon as a way of lowering total emissions. "A carbon price will definitely help...The right policies will definitely accelerate innovation and likely make the U.S. more competitive," he said.
The RIGHT policies? The reason he wants cap and trade is to make it so that instead of CHEAP oil, we have EXPENSIVE oil, using this TAX on carbon emissions as an excuse. THEN the much more expensive "alternate" technologies will come into play. Currently, the alternate technologies cannot compete in a free market against such a CHEAP commodity as oil, so they must use government to FORCE their much more expensive solution by the use of a carbon TAX which makes cheap oil more expensive. As Obama said, his policies will "NECESSARILY" bankrupt the coal industry.. in favor of these far more expensive alternates. It is not viable in the real world of the free market, so they must FORCE this change.. for our good, you understand. Only when government (who knows so much better than you) forces you to buy the five times more expensive alternate which you would never have bought before, will the world be saved and made clean. And the way to do it is to stop that oil from being so cheap by making them pay a fine, or tariff.. through these bogus carbon credits to "offset" non-existent Global Warming. It is all contrived and will cost so much it will hamper industry. When you have to pay five times the amount for fuel, you will drive less, but also, the price of goods at the grocery store which have to be trucked in (using alternate or very expensive fuel) will be much more expensive. It would never be a choice the private sector would choose! But it will be rammed down the public's throat, as Obamacare is being now, and as Greenie Doom here says, there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." And all the while these alternatative fuel barons will get rich on their very expensive alternates, because instead of oil, you are FORCED by the government to buy their much more expensive alternate. It is all powered by their greed and love of money, not the desire to see "clean" alternatives, they are just playing the government for cheap tricks like a prostitute, prostituting governmental power and using the government to enrich themselves. Ignore the experts, indeed.. and give young rich men like this the ability to compete with the big players.. who got big finding CHEAP ways to deliver fuel and run American enterprise. In the end, the American people will suffer from such folly of governmental interference in the free market, because, as history shows us.. it never works.
As Roger said, "If the results are not too good, or it shows that it is not feasable to develop, a shut down is then logical. The point of shut down will however depends on how long a time the gov will pay for the research. So all the corporation needs to show is "progress" and the money will keep coming. Research money is just that, the entity the government finance, will exist as long as the government will feed it." That is the problem in a nutshell. Government in business means funding business models which don't work and should fail.. until we get a collapse like Fannie and Freddie, who loaned when the government told them to instead of when the risk was worth taking. By loaning to people who could not repay, they made a bubble which eventually burst. This will be just another government made bubble. Your sentence "the politicians will, as usual, toss money to research projects, that will be payed by you and me, and never come up with a product... is so TRUE. It won't be a cheap way this time, it will be making the expensive alternates able to compete with cheap oil. By making things so much more expensive in every area of the economy, they will slow the economy and kill industry. That is the reality of where their cap and trade taxing of oil will lead - to the downsizing and destruction of the private sector. The people will indeed suffer as these shmucks laugh in glee as Greenie here did and say, "there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." That is the way reality will go, unless America wakes up and removes the shmucks from ever holding power.
As for the cool Dinar news.. got a link on that? Goin lookin for it now, but a link would be good, please, Roger? :)
Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 1:05 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
GM wrote (his words in italics):
Research will bring many surprises. It always does. Who would have predicted the invention of the light bulb? The airplane? Very few.
But that was NOT the government inventing these products, it was private enterprise.
Where will the answers come from? Private enterprise won't do this. Its the role of government to fund the future. And the role of inventors is to invent the future. Private enterprise is run by practical people who are not dreamers.
Oh, private enterprise is run by people who are not dreamers? Who invented the airplane and light bulb? The government?
Business people make the existing world work, but can't create a new world. They don't have it in them. A new world will be created by the dreamers and tinkerers, not by most business people, and not by corporate suck-ups like Sara, who have no imagination.
At least I am in good company if I am with the inventors of the light bulb and airplane, you know, the "unimaginative' people who brought you light, computers, technology.. hey, was Bill Gates a government employee? Suprisingly.. not.
Once the future is created, and it's cheap, then even your average gutless, stupid politician will go along with it.
Yep, keep on bashing the "stupid" politicians.. your type only plays them for laughs and whatever cash you can bleed out of them for their insane and costly failures of projects anyway.
Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 1:16 PM ∞
wrote:
Roger said: "Since then we have invested billions and billions in research for Cancer, Aids, Flu, you name it.
There will not be a cure for Cancer, Aids or Flu, because a cure means that the entity financed (fed) by the government will die."
Roger, you are looking at Cancer and Aids and Flu in the wrong way. People already have a cure: it's called prevention. The average American diet, I wouldn't feed to a pig, unless I didn't like the pig. Cancer is caused by Big Macs and most of what is on supermarket shelves and 7-11s. Most Americans don't know how to eat, or even live. Healthcare in the U.S. is a joke. The human body needs to be looked after for 90 years, if you want to live that long. There are "Blue Zones" around the world where people live longer than other people. All they do is eat a vegetable based diet, walk a lot, ride your bicycle, have a garden and work in it, and have a lot of friends, and be spiritual. Then you won't get cancer and will die in your bed at 90.
And the cure for AIDS is to stop screwing around. People are so idiotic they think they can screw everything in sight, and some magical cure will appear, to take away their disease. It's magical thinking, like Sara thinking a magical solution to energy problems will appear in the nick of time.
The cure for the flu is to have a strong immune system by a healthy lifestyle. Then your body will be able to fight it off naturally.
Idiotic Republicans and Stupid Democrats will tell you that you need to spend money on more healthcare technology to make you well. That's plain stupid, whether it's private or public healthcare. Healthcare comes from how you live your life. Technology won't save you, but if you are smart enough, you'll avoid a lot of diseases in the first place. All the idiots arguing over healthcare don't have a clue. Americans don't even live as long as most countries because our lifestyle is so horrible. We are fat, eat too much, don't move around enough. Private healthcare, or public healthcare wont' fix that.
There's no cure for stupid.
-- March 12, 2010 1:20 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Sara said: "Yep, keep on bashing the "stupid" politicians.."
OK,... here goes: the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!
-- March 12, 2010 1:30 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!
Yet, these are the saints who will save us all by finding us all alternate fuels.. the ones with vision and imagination.. the ones who are the way of the future!
You are inconsistent. Politicians ARE the government. Read what you said in italics, then go back and read what you said about them leading the brave new way into the future for industry and energy technology instead of the private sector.
Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 1:34 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Sara said: "And they won't introduce their alternates until they use up what they are already selling. That is the way business works."
No, Sara, that is NOT the way business works. Oil companies don't need to use up all the oil in the world before they start selling alternatives. They could care less if the oil sits in the ground for the next million years and all the Arabs starve, as long as they can make money. As soon as an alternative appears, and it's cheaper than oil, to produce and sell, and they can make more money that way, they will drop oil faster than George W Bush can mispronounce a word.
-- March 12, 2010 1:46 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Sara said: "GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!
Yet, these are the saints who will save us all by finding us all alternate fuels.. the ones with vision and imagination.. the ones who are the way of the future!
You are inconsistent. Politicians ARE the government. Read what you said in italics, then go back and read what you said about them leading the brave new way into the future for industry and energy technology instead of the private sector."
No....There is no inconsistency. Most politicians are idiots. Some are useful idiots. Others are useless idiots. I prefer to vote for useful idiots, and dislike useless idiots. Useful idiots at least know who to listen to, even if they couldn't come up with an idea themselves. Useless idiots fight good ideas and listen to other stupid people.
-- March 12, 2010 1:51 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!
And, "No....There is no inconsistency. Most politicians are idiots. Some are useful idiots. Others are useless idiots. I prefer to vote for useful idiots, and dislike useless idiots. Useful idiots at least know who to listen to, even if they couldn't come up with an idea themselves. Useless idiots fight good ideas and listen to other stupid people.So the measure you use is their usefulness to you? If they "know who to listen to"? And they are stupid people if they don't? And idiots either way? Because it is pretty obvious who you think they should be listening to and using their governmental powers for.. on your behalf, instead of furthering the private sector responses to these challenges.
I suggest this is your real opinion and that your speaking of them as visionaries with great imaginations who will lead the world into a cleaner future is done by people like you only to suck up to them to get them to buy into your views so you can profit by it. Only with governmental help and coersion of the private sector can you leech and profit, by the misuse of governmental powers and unconstitutional intrusion into the private sector. The purpose of such hatred of politicians (reread the statement in italics above, "stupid.. can't find their rectum with a flashlight") is greed. Such persons as you do indeed PLAY the politicians they dispise for their own nefarious agenda and profit.
Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 2:05 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Sara, you are a natural born politician, even though your views don't appeal to me. You really have a way with words, and many similar people would agree with you, even though I find your views useless.
-- March 12, 2010 2:25 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Results of six provinces finalized – IHEC
March 12, 2010BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Results of parliamentary elections in six Iraqi provinces were finalized on a rate of 25% of the total vote in Iraq, according to a statement by the Independent High Electoral Commission on Friday.
“Work at the data center in the IHEC in Baghdad continued on Friday with intensive presence of media people and observers,” added that statement as received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.
“The provinces included Babel (33.89%), Arbil (28.67%), Najaf (34.11%), Diala (17.49%), Salah al-Din (17.89%) and Missan (23%),” it read.
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=128447
Too bad they aren't willing quite yet to publish those finalized results..
Sara.
PS I didn't find the article on forex possibilities for Iraq yet, Roger.. where'd you get that info?
-- March 12, 2010 2:34 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.
I guess the argument being given is that there IS fraud.. but it is not widespread or systemic and, overall, we can trust the results.
I disagree with the idea that it undermines the country to make sure the votes are counted correctly, however.
The politicians are MORE credible for being careful and questioning everything..
instead of blindly trusting and going along.. as they once did with anything Saddam said.
"What we see is the tip of an iceberg," he said.
Hmmm... widespread or not, that is the question.
Is it true that the Maliki adviser, "falsified nationwide records"??
Serious allegations, and ones Maliki can overcome only by stepping down if this man is found to have done so.
As I read in another article,"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," President of the delegation Struan Stevenson told the European Parliament.
"It appears that massive efforts are going into attempts to deny victory to Mr Allawi and his secularist, nationalist Al-Iraqiya list, who clearly must have secured an outright victory in the polls when such blatant attempts at fraud are taking place," Stevenson added.
===
Poll fraud claims put Iraq at risk
Oliver August, Baghdad
From: The Times
March 13, 2010THE threat of major violence loomed over Iraq last night as the country's leading opposition politician said there was widespread fraud in last week's elections.
Iyad Allawi told Western officials that aides to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had hidden ballot papers and falsified computer records in an effort to retain power.
"They are stealing the votes of the Iraqi people," his spokesman told a press conference.
The claims could trigger a fresh round of fighting and undermine the credibility of the next government as US troops are preparing to leave the country.
Full election results have yet to be announced, but Mr Allawi, a former prime minister, and Mr Maliki are vying for the top job. Partial results show both men doing well in their strongholds.
The Iraqi National Movement, the alliance led by Mr Allawi, has filed 30 complaints claiming voter fraud. Mr Maliki's State of Law coalition has threatened to sue him for defamation.
But several violations reported by Mr Allawi have been confirmed by diplomats and poll observers. Haider al-Abadi, a senior adviser to Mr Maliki, spent about an hour inside the election data entry centre on Wednesday, a violation of the election rules. Supporters of Mr Allawi claim the adviser falsified nationwide records.
On the same day, six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.
Mr Allawi claimed 250,000 soldiers were refused the chance to vote, and said an election monitor had found ballot papers with votes for Mr Allawi dumped in the garden of a polling station in the northern city of Kirkuk.
Munir al-Gafili, the head of Kirkuk city council and an Allawi supporter, showed nine discarded ballots at a press conference in Baghdad. "Every one of them is marked for Allawi," he said. "That is no coincidence." Western officials said fraud had definitely taken place, "some by Allawi and some against Allawi".
The UN has sent investigation teams to the provinces of Kirkuk and Ninevah in northern Iraq. But officials say that so far they do not see a pattern of systematic fraud.
Adnan Janabi, a former government minister and an Allawi supporter, claimed Mr Maliki was using the armed forces to intimidate opponents. He said Iraqi army units raided the homes of Allawi supporters this week. "They're trying to provoke the people," he said.
Mr Janabi claimed that voting by millions of Iraqi exiles - among whom Mr Allawi is popular - in Jordan, Syria and elsewhere, had been plagued by problems. "What we see is the tip of an iceberg," he said.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/poll-fraud-claims-put-iraq-at-risk/story-e6frg6so-1225840206342
-- March 12, 2010 3:24 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Shibibi's statement of putting the Dinar on Forex...link..
Go to:
www.bi-me.com
scroll down to "Banking and Finance", and open up....
A very significant piece of information.
The plan is to take the Dinar out of the daily auction program,.... finally a smart move.
-- March 12, 2010 3:40 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Thanks, Roger. :)
-- March 12, 2010 3:56 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
A Rabbi and a Priest were sitting in front of a church and they each had charity boxes in front of them to collect money. The church goers that were passing by couldn't believe the nerve of the rabbi, and purposely threw large sums of money into the priest's charity box to spite the rabbi. Finally one of the passer-by had sympathy on the rabbi, and advised him, "Go to a synagogue and collect there, you'll have more success." The Rabbi thanked the passer-by, and then turned to the priest and said, "You hear that, Yankel; he's telling us how to do business."
-- March 12, 2010 3:58 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Shibibi's statement is a statement taken in context with his report to IMF.
He describes that he will create an interbank exchange system, apparently outside the Iraqi border, to do the exchange rate for the Iraqi Dinar.
He's bragging a little bit, the system is already in place.
Any bank in the world that has got a phone line, is part of that system.
It was a little bit hard to imagine exactly what Shibibi had in mind from a techinical standpoint. But it sounded a little bit from his statement that he thought that the Dinar could still be controled in one fashion or the other.
This is pobably not a good idea if the intention is to control the currency.
Just by the act of letting banks outside of the Iraq border decide the currency exchange rate, ...well there are no other option other than just let the market decide. Maybe that is what he is saying...Shibibi have always been cryptic...
This, my friends is the very best scenario we could hope for.
It will take off a lot of headache from the persons responsible for the currency, like, if they want to do an internal RV, where a commitee, is deciding the rate.
The way this will probably go then is that it is let loose to a couple of "corresponding banks" in Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Dubai and so on.
Prospective buyers on the Forex market will start buying and selling the Iraqi Dinar.
The way it works, is that currencies are always traded in pairs, you can buy (go long) or sell (go short), so it doesn't matter if the curve is going up or down.
The broker always hold the opposite side of the trade, so if you sell, he buys.(he's getting paid by a small spread in value).
So even if you sell, what you do is borrowing from the broker, and sell it back to him, but he had to buy it in the first place, so when a new currecny is introduced, ...basically, everybody and his brother has to buy, in order to even be able to trade with the currency.
(Little bit technical there, but ok bear with me)
That will introduce a very sharp spike in currency value, an voala' no RV neccesary, were a commitee will be to blame for anything....it RV'd itelf.
The statement from Shibibi didt say WHEN this was suppose to take place, but it for sure is very very good news, and I might even conider scraping up what I have in the coffers and perhaps get me another million or two.
Alternatively, if you are trading in Forex, you might want to do some research of what dealer would take an Iraq Dinar trade.
Smaller currencies...you probably have to got to a very big broker for him to be interested in filling an order like that.
Most currencies that are traded are the big currencies, and as this would be a first introductory currency from a former wartorn country, it will probably be introduced "soft" with very little access to the trading at first, but getting bigger as it goes.
Any big company transfering funds are automatically on the Forex market, in fact when you yourself go to an airport ( and get ripped off) and exchange your money, you are a Forex participant.
What Shibibi is saying, is ....let the cat out of the bag.
So next thing to guess is, how much is the dinar actually worth?
Well the market will decide, but I think it will go to 10-15 cents of value pretty quick, and from there it will slowly rise to 3 maybe 4 Dollars depending on how good the development goes in Iraq.
I may be wrong, who knows, Dubai have an exchange rate of about 1/3 of the Dollar, while neighbouring Saudi and Kuwait is in the 3-4 Dollar range.
Either way, it will pay out handsomely, an it would be a very very good advice to hang onto the Dinar even after it has been released on Forex.
Also, expect a very choppy up and down exchange rate for the first couple of weeks, until it settles in the right range.
Whatever that range is....your guess is as good as mine.
God news anyhow, in fact very good news.
-- March 12, 2010 4:26 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger wrote: it would be a very very good advice to hang onto the Dinar even after it has been released on Forex.
Hmmm.. how long?
Gonna have to pray about that one.
But it does sound very positive, hopefully they follow through in a timely manner.
A real value to the Dinar would give the Iraqis their true buying power and cause them to be able to afford to buy things from outside the country. It would be a real help to the Iraqi standard of living. And, with oil development working as the engine for Iraq, they can deliver more and more services and expand their production sector. It sounds like a good deal for Iraqis.. and hopefully we won't do too shabbily with the Dinar speculation we have made. I'm just wondering how long to hold onto Dinar.. as we all know Iraq will prosper more and more as Saudi resources are decreasing.It is a blessing to the world that Saddam is gone.. and that the world can have more cheap oil from Iraq to continue to run the thirsty world economy. That is, if the governments of the world don't go for destroying the good thing we have going by trying to put cheap oil out of business, and the world economy with it. All in the name of a trumped up altruism based on global junk science... to line the pockets of the green elite (Al Gore, anyone?).
Looking forward to the promised progress in Iraq.. and the fulfillment of their word in this promise to let it hit the forex. If Allawi gets in, I believe this will go. Maliki, he may scotch it as he tends to favor the holding of power by himself and his few.. as I posted before, he chooses to use oil for goods and bypass the consumer prosperity of his people. He has done so for a very long time now and we have watched the Iraqi Dinar languish. Hopefully this is a sign of change coming.. and is a result of pressure from those who wish the Iraqi people to prosper. I am continuing to pray for God's will to be done in Iraq and for her people, as I am sure God has their best interests at heart.
Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 6:37 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Roger, very good news, thanks. How long do you guess till the Dinar reaches it's full value?
-- March 12, 2010 6:47 PM ∞
GM wrote:
Sara, alternative energy will be the biggest business opportunity of this century. When you make money on the Dinar, you could stick some of it in green energy, and make even more money.
-- March 12, 2010 6:51 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
How the Iraqi elections will work..
Allawi or Maliki are still rival contenders for PM, and this notes that they hold about half the seats between them.
Quote:"The prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, and his principal rival, Ayad Allawi, are on track to secure roughly half of the 325 seats between them."
More directly, the article states that they have about 80 seats each, Allawi and Maliki,
Quote:"a very rough estimate would give State of Law (Maliki) and Iraqiya (Allawi) around 80 seats each in the 325‑seat parliament.."
Resulting in a combination "between State of Law (Maliki) and Iraqiya (Allawi) .. (and perhaps Goran), which could present a less sectarian image, but would need to resolve the conflicting prime-ministerial aspirations of Mr Maliki and Mr Allawi (perhaps with the latter becoming foreign minister)."
Perhaps the one not making the post of PM should be made foreign minister. And, in the event that allegations of fraud are insurmountable and it appears Maliki may appear to be making PM but many feel fraudulently, maybe Mr. Maliki could own up to the fraud which he is responsible for before God.. and maybe he could be humble enough to become foreign minister to prevent further crisis, since such a capitulation would be seen by the Iraqi people as a good thing and worthy of respect and honor - for the good of the country and its cohesion at this crucial time. As for this scenerio, I certainly am not sure the allegations of fraud are insurmountable at this time - yet - but this is what I was thinking would work for if they do get to that point.. certainly, as I posted earlier, the supposition is that fraud by Maliki's people was only necessary because otherwise Allawi would have won, and if that will not resolve itself so they can get along in parliament peacefully, then it will be necessary for some leeway to be given and this would work to resolve the crisis, if Maliki can set aside his own ambitions for the good of all.
Sara.
===Iraq politics: Slow motion
March 12th 2010FROM THE ECONOMIST INTELLIGENCE UNIT
As the first results start to dribble in from Iraq's general election it has become clear that earlier predictions of a long-drawn-out process of coalition-building were close to the mark. The prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, and his principal rival, Ayad Allawi, are on track to secure roughly half of the 325 seats between them. They will both now compete to win round the other blocs and parties, with a fallback option of joining forces. The deadline for forming a new government is three months from the certification of the final result—there is every likelihood that the negotiations will go down to the wire.
Within hours of the polls closing on March 7th many of the political blocs started to make exaggerated claims about their showing in the election. However, five days later the Independent High Election Commission (IHEC) had only issued initial results for five of the 18 provinces, based on a minority of votes cast. In Babil, south of Baghdad, Mr Maliki's State of Law list was leading with 43% of the vote, followed by the Iraqi National Alliance (INA) with 34% and Mr Allawi's Iraqiya, with 20%. In Najaf, another southern province, the three lists were on 48%, 42% and 8% respectively. Both of these results were based on a count of about 34% of votes cast. In Irbil, capital of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the Kurdistan Alliance, which groups together the two largest Kurdish parties, was leading with 67%, and the main challenger, Listi Goran (Change), captured 21.5%. Less detailed results, on a count of just 17% of votes cast, were released for two northern provinces, Salahadin and Diyala, showing Iraqiya ahead in both.
Exit poll
These results are too partial to draw firm conclusions in those provinces, let alone the country as a whole. However, they do fit relatively well with an exit poll produced by Ayn, a local organisation, across ten provinces. On the basis of that poll, and extrapolations for other provinces, a very rough estimate would give State of Law and Iraqiya around 80 seats each in the 325‑seat parliament, the INA 50 and the various Kurdish parties another 55 between them, with the remainder going to smaller parties, such as the cross-sectarian Unity of Iraq list and minority community representatives. A key question will be not only how many votes each of the coalitions and parties have won, but where and, by inference, from which sects those votes have come from.
Initial results for the whole country, on a count of 30% of votes cast, had been expected earlier in the week, but the announcement was repeatedly delayed by complaints about irregularities in the conduct of the election and because of a dispute about how to handle the votes cast for 55 candidates (over half from Mr Allawi's list, and one senior ally of Mr Maliki) who were disqualified on the day before the election thanks to members of the INA, who largely control the process of assessing whether candidates have or had associations with the Baath party. The candidates had been brought in to replace previous candidates who had also been disqualified, and the late disqualification meant that their names therefore appeared on the ballots and attracted votes. The IHEC's final election count is not expected to be released until at least March 18th, and there will undoubtedly be subsequent challenges before the Federal Supreme Court ratifies the results, probably in early April.
Long way to go
The process of forming a government is convoluted and could take months, as it did in 2005 and 2006. First, the parliament should convene within 15 days of the ratification of the results and elect a new speaker. It then has 30 days to elect a new president—who must secure either two-thirds of parliament's support or a simple majority in a run-off vote between the two most popular candidates. The current president, Jalal Talabani, is likely to remain in the post, although his position will be weaker given that his party, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, appears to have lost ground to a fellow Kurdish party, Listi Goran (Change).
Tariq al-Hashemi, a Sunni Arab in the Iraqiya coalition, has also expressed an interest in the presidency, and could be a serious contender if Iraqiya is one of the parties involved in forming the government. That process begins once the new president invites the largest bloc in parliament—which is likely to be either State of Law or Iraqiya—to nominate a prime minister within 15 days. The prime minister-designate will then have 30 days to name a cabinet, each member of which must be approved by parliament. In all, this process could take three months from the ratification of the election results, although it could take even longer, as constitutional deadlines have often been violated in the past. However, if two or more of the main electoral coalitions are able rapidly to form an alliance with a clear majority in parliament then they could speed up the process significantly.
The most likely combinations are between State of Law, the main Kurdish list and parts of the Iraqi National Alliance—essentially a continuation of the current government—or between State of Law and Iraqiya (and perhaps Goran), which could present a less sectarian image, but would need to resolve the conflicting prime-ministerial aspirations of Mr Maliki and Mr Allawi (perhaps with the latter becoming foreign minister).
-- March 12, 2010 7:31 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
GM;
I will pray about investing in alternates with Dinar investment revenues. After all, alternate fuels will one day be the way of the future and so it will become a good venture for private citizens to invest into in the future for the winner in that market, and as you have pointed out, there is a lot of exciting technological innovations which are coming down the pike - I did appreciate those posts you contributed pointing to a few with potential and worth checking out. However, I do oppose the government putting any tax dollars into alternative energy as energy development should be done by the private sector and the government should not be competing with private individuals as a business player with taxpayer dollars. I keep a list of interesting investment opportunities and most certainly alternate energy - as well as new and innovative techniques for developing existing energy resources - are on it.
Thanks,Sara.
-- March 12, 2010 7:48 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
GM
When the Dinar reaches it's full value.
Well, first let it go on the Forex as mr Shibibi are describing. It's not there yet, this Dinar trail have been an up an down ride for quite some time, so I would say, just let that happen first.
After that, ...the full value, well, currency always have it's full value in that it has the value someone think it is worth, so when buyig or selling that currency, that is the value it is given.
I guess you mean, when the Dinar have reached as high as it will go, an then peaked and flattened out in that level?
Your guess is as good as mine my friend. I would however hang onto the Dinar and don't rush and cash out, because once on the market, it's value will reflect pretty much the production of Iraq. And it is bound to pick up as time goes.
I think that once it is set out, for an "interbank" exchange, it will get an opening price and go from there.
That report needs a little bit more study, Shibibi have always been very cryptic and one thing anyone in a Central Bank are, they are scared of "specualtion".
So, possible Mr Shibibi has to be clear with IMF in his report to them, but still tried to say it in such a cumbersome way that any layman wouldn't understand where he was heading.
Doing his report, he probably had to wressel pretty much with the words he was using, knowing that he need to tell IMF in no uncertain terms, but at the same time don't want "specualtion" on the currency.
I will study the document a little bit more and be back later with a more indepth analysis, if I can squeese one out of it.
(Hey....I'm pretty good in BS'ing....no one knows the difference anyway)
Rob N. reminds me of the text in Jethro tull song Aqualung. Pretty grim picture you painted up, doing that dumpster diving.
-- March 12, 2010 11:11 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Hi All,
Have read this pretty awesom report again.
The original blog was from an article, but the article had only bits and pieces from the original document.
I spent some time reading through that document and it is a very interesting document.
The document is a "Letter of Intent", written by the President of Central Bank of Iraq, to the IMF, dated the 8th of Mars -10
There are page after page with the usual BS, numbers, projections ,analysis and all that, but the 638 Carat diamond is in Chapter III section B Paragraph 26.
-" TO IMPROVE THE FUNCTIONING OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE AUCTIONS, WE PLAN TO DEVELOP ORGANIZED EXCHANGE MARKETS OUTSIDE THE CENTRAL BANK, INCLUDING AN INTERBANK FOREIGN EXCHANGE MARKET. OUR AIM IS TO ESTABLISH A FORWARD MARKET IN IRAQI DINARS IN THE NEAR FUTURE."
That is his exact words.
This both answers questions, and at the same time poses a couple of other questions.
He is saying it, but in the same breath he is not saying it. He is so darn cryptic that guy.
-"To improve the functioning of foreign exchange actions,...." Implies that the Central Bank will be in control over the exchange rate and still do auctions....but in the very next sentence he is saying....-"we plan to develop organized exchange markets outside the Central Bank , ....that sentence is in direct collision course with his first statement, where he now describe that the Iraqi Dinar will be put on a market, and if it is, then the market will determine the exchange rate, not the Central Bank.
Then he goes on and reinforce the last sentence....-"including an interbank foreign exchange market"
Then he reinforces it a third time.....-"Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi Dinars in the near future."
My take is that Mr Shibibi have to be careful with his words and make sure he says what he need to say to IMF, while at the same time trying to cover up that the Iraqi Dinar is about to go up the roof.
Clevely hidden by the way, very hard to find, and a nightmare to "decrypt".
Any Market is defined by a needs, wants, and availability.
Any market will, in it's exchange with whatever goods it has to offer, may it be tomatoes, gasoline , carrots or Iraqi Dinar be a balance between where the buyer and seller can meet and agree on a price.
Othewise it is not a market.
..."develop exchange market OUTSIDE the Central Bank"...
That is a frank statement that the market will decide, not the Central Bank. Here he describe the function especially to be outside of the Central Bank.
....incluing an interbank foreign exchange market...
That is pretty much a word for word basic definition of Forex, that's all Forex is, an interbank system where you buy and sell currency , and that is a market....can't say it more exact.
-"Our goal is to establish a forward market in Iraqi Dinars in the near future."
"Forward market", an easily accessable market, not a hidden or behind closed doors...easy to buy and sell...like....may I suggest...Forex....
Here is the words I really like.......-"in the near future".
But hold on, I've been in Iraq, I have a clue about a few of those things.
Counted on an Arabic wrist watch, ..."in the near future", means: "later", or "whenever",...or "when we get to it",...or "when we get an order to do it",...or ....well you've got the idea.
It is a way for those guys to count time, and it i about 8 to 12 times longer than the western expectancy.
I would say ...fall...late fall sometime....well it is their idea of ..-"in the near future", not yours and mine idea of it.
Either way, I read Forex, and THAT, is the best of all projected Iraq Dinar scenarios.
Any other take????
-- March 13, 2010 6:20 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Dinar on the Forex,
Not too bad of an idea for Iraq.
Forex moves 3 Trillion Dollars worth of currenies every day. It's a lot of Mulah, an that involves everything from speculators to funds to big companies purchases, investments or any other money transactions.
Iraq will probably attract fund managers attention as soon as the Iraqi Dinars get on the block with the rest of the guys.
A fundmanager is both interested in a currencys spot price, but his main objective is to place his money somewhere, where you get high interest.
The usual routine is to go on the market, and against leverage,( leverage means if you have 1:100 in leverage, you can buy 100 times more money, than what you have) buy a currency with very low interet rate. That could be Dollar, or Yen.
Lets say he buys Yen, now he turn around and with those Yen, buys Iraq Dinars.
They are deposited in Iraq, and now it will get 7% interest on those money.
He may hold it there for a half, a full or maybe two years.
The fund will then profit from the difference in interest between Yen and Iraqi Dinar.
So all Iraq has to do, is to hold their interest rate high, and that will attract incoming capital into Iraq.
Banks that are sitting on a high liquidity will be much more able to do what they do best, borrow those money to investors for projects, houses, or whatever in Iraq.
So in this way, the cash goes to Iraq, they can work with the money in the meanwhile, as they are paying only 7% against that they can use a couple of billions, in liquidity.
Yes Billions are traded frequently and daily on Forex. (The insider slang for trading a Billion is a "yard".)
That is the sizes of the liquidity that will in this scenario flow into Iraq, add to that, their future oil income, and it will be a pretty rosy place after a while.
-- March 13, 2010 7:06 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Hi All,
This is my last blog for tonight, ...
...if I only can remember what it was about....
I know it was extremely important...
it's a life or death, type, info....
what was it....
-- March 13, 2010 7:12 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iraq's Nuri Maliki takes slender lead over rivals
13/03/2010Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki took a slender lead over his rivals on Friday, preliminary results from the country's general election showed, as opposition blocs alleged blatant fraud.
Maliki faces a strong challenge from former premier Iyad Allawi, whose secular Iraqiya bloc has emerged as the strongest challenger to the incumbent's hopes of retaining his post.
Initial figures from four of Iraq's 18 provinces released on Thursday showed a split between the two rival contenders for the top job.
Both blocs claimed to have made a strong showing nationwide, based on their own internal estimates, with Iraqiya claiming to have won 90 seats in the 325-member parliament, while State of Law said it had taken around 100.
The results released so far represent less than a third of votes cast.
Complete results are expected on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.
Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.
Iraqiya has alleged fraud during Sunday's polls in favour of State of Law, a charge dismissed by the latter bloc as exaggerated.
"There has been clear and flagrant fraud," charged Intisar Allawi, a senior Iraqiya candidate and relative of the former prime minister.
She said Iraqiya's own election observers had found ballot papers in rubbish dumps in the northern disputed province of Kirkuk.
But Hassan Sinaid, a senior State of Law candidate, described those claims as "exaggerated."
According to Saad Rawi, another election official, IHEC had so far received 2,025 complaints.
Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.
http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2010\03\03-13\zsubz\912.htm&dismode=x&ts=13/03/2010%2011:00:11%20Õ
Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.
A dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count.. that should be interesting.
With Maliki claiming more seats than Allawi.. it will be interesting to see if "widespread fraud" can be substantiated, and what then if it is?Sara.
-- March 13, 2010 9:34 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Maliki leads in early Iraq vote tally
March 13, 2010BAGHDAD — A coalition led by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki was winning in the all-important capital and a Shiite province in the south, according to a partial tally of election results released Saturday.
If the Baghdad trend continues, the results would be a substantial boost to Maliki and his chances to retain the prime minister's post. Baghdad accounts for 70 of the parliament's 325 seats and would go a long way toward deciding who will be tasked with forming a government.
Election officials Saturday also announced that the prime minister's coalition was leading in Karbala, a Shiite province in southern Iraq where he has been battling his former political allies, the Iraqi National Alliance, a Shiite religious coalition with ties to Iran.
With the partial Baghdad results and the Karbala tally, the prime minister is now ahead in five of nine provinces where early results have been released. The Iraqiya coalition lead by Maliki's secular rival, Ayad Allawi, leads in two provinces, while the Iraqi National Alliance is ahead in one.
A Kurdish coalition, as expected, is ahead in Irbil in northern Iraq's autonomous Kurdish region.
The partial Baghdad results show Maliki's State of Law coalition with almost 159,000 votes compared to about 108,000 for the INA. Allawi's Iraqiya coalition was in third with about 105,000 votes.
It was not clear which of the capital's neighborhoods were included in the count and whether the results were coming from across Baghdad, from the Shiite-dominated eastern part of the city or the Sunni-dominated western neighborhoods.
Results from the primarily Shiite-side of the city would likely benefit Maliki or his main Shiite rivals, the INA, while results from the Sunni side could spell a boost for Iraqiya, which has drawn on Sunni support in many provinces.
It was also not clear exactly what percentage of the votes had been counted so far.
The results portend what is likely to be a close race between State of Law, Iraqiya and the INA. No one coalition is expected to win an outright majority, forcing whoever wins the most seats to reach out to others to cobble together a government.
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-iraq-election14-2010mar14,0,4459893.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews+%28L.A.+Times+-+Top+News%29
-- March 13, 2010 9:47 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara and all,
Seems like the southern provinces have Malakis support, and Allawi is trailing as it stands now.
I think Allawi is the better choice for Iraq, but wonder if it will do any difference for the IQD?
Sara, I have detected your suspicion that if Malaki will win, he might purposely hold back the development of the Dinar.
He may be the lesser candidate (in my view) but I have no clue as to what clout he can bring to CBI or IMF in case he intentionally will hold the Dinar back.
My take is that this (the IQD) is something that will develop in spite of Malakis possible intent.
Most probably he have already got a copy of the CBI report, and he most probably have got it even before it was sent, and I can not see any sign of objection on Malakis part (there might be, but that is behind the scene in that case)
I just don't think that hMalaki has any bigger objection based on, ...well...frankly, I don't think he understand this in the first place.
A possible scenario migh be that now during the election, and until a new government is formed, the whole political platform in Iraq is weakened and in limbo, CBI will take the opportunity to just go ahead with its plan and hurrily put it in place, so wether it will be Malaki, or Allawi, the development of the Dinar is an "in facto" issue, when they start their new regime.
That is all a scenario that is based on the assumption that there is one intent in CBI, and a contrary intent, present or up and coming, on the issue from one or more parties of the Iraqi poitical scene.
Sara, as a side note, I had an old e-mail address and sent you an e-mail, don't know if it still works.
R
-- March 13, 2010 8:30 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
That article Roger is talking about:
===
'Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi dinars in the near future,' say finance officials
Source: BI-ME with Reuters , Author: BI-ME staff
Posted: Fri March 12, 2010IRAQ. Iraq plans to establish an interbank foreign exchange market and dinar forward market and to step up its treasury bill activity in 2010 to help plug continuing budget deficits and foster treasury and foreign exchange markets, the Central Bank and Finance Ministry said in a submission to the IMF.
Iraq aims to develop foreign exchange markets outside the framework of dollar auctions currently conducted by the Central Bank, a letter of intent submitted to the IMF for a US$3.6 billion standby arrangement said.
Iraq said it would not return to a budget surplus until 2012.
"As our financing needs in 2010 will still be substantial, we will step up our efforts to mobilize domestic financing through the Treasury bill market," Iraq's Central Bank head and finance minister wrote.
"To that end, we will conduct regular auctions, and refrain from cancellations, while allowing interest rates to be determined by the market. This will have additional benefits by determining a benchmark interest rate, while the development of a secondary market for treasury bills will allow banks to improve their liquidity management."
"They are going to shift to building a local market, they have ample cash, loan-deposit ratios are very low and they will benefit from oil,"Turker Hamzaoglu, emerging market economist at BoA-Merrill Lynch, told Reuters.
"They have to develop a domestic bond market but it's still baby steps, it's still too early, it's not even a frontier market," he said, adding that Gulf Arab and Lebanese investors could be interested in Iraqi domestic paper.
Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shibibi and Finance Minister Bayan Jabor said in the letter to the IMF that the country planned to introduce a sales tax, as a precursor to a Value Added Tax, "in the coming years".
Iraq's gross domestic product expanded by 4% in 2009 compared with almost 10% the year before, their submission reported. GDP growth would rise to almost 7% this year and 7.5%-8% in 2011 and 2012, they said.
That improvement would be rooted in an increase in Iraqi oil output to 3.1 million barrels per day by 2012, from around 2.5 million bpd now, and exports of 2.5 million bpd, compared to just over 2 million bpd now.
That outlook might be conservative following the signing of 10 multibillion-dollar deals with global oil firms to develop Iraq's vast reserves. If all the deals work out, Iraqi oil capacity could soar to 12 million bpd in six to seven years.
"The CBI will continue to be independent in the pursuit of its policy objectives. The CBI’s monetary and exchange rate policies will continue to be aimed at keeping inflation under control and safeguarding international reserves," the submission said
The banking sector is in urgent need of reform to foster financial intermediation and enable banks to contribute to the development of a strong private sector. With the help of the World Bank and other international agencies, Iraq has developed a banking sector reform strategy, it added.
"Iraq is committed to strengthening the management of international reserves by moving ahead with the implementation of new reserves management guidelines that were adopted in early August 2008. Iraq will follow the guidelines to diversify currency composition and establish appropriate duration and credit risk, build capacity for risk analysis, and work towards establishing a dealing room".
>b?The IMF submission said Iraq's Central Bank planned to create a foreign exchange market outside the framework of regular dollar auctions now conducted by the bank. The bank uses the auctions to set the exchange rate, which has been held at 1,170 dinars per dollar for many months.
"To improve the functioning of foreign exchange auctions, we plan to develop organized exchange markets outside the central bank, including an interbank foreign exchange market," it said.
"Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi dinars in the near future."
RELATED ARTICLES
IMF approves US$3.6 billion stand-by loan for Iraq
'The Iraqi dinar has all reasons to grow stronger,' says Prime Minister
Iraq oil exports at highest level since 1
http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=45051&t=1&c=61&cg=4&mset=1011
-- March 13, 2010 10:18 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger wrote: Sara, I have detected your suspicion that if Malaki will win, he might purposely hold back the development of the Dinar.
You have discerned correctly, Roger. I believe if Mr. Maliki were open to the development of the Dinar, he would already have done it. I believe he is the holdup for the Dinar finding a market valuation. I hope I am wrong and you are right that greater forces than this one man's view will prevail. But he has a lot of power and uses it, I believe, to prevent the Dinar's development.
The voting happened in good faith, the count should also be in good faith. If there is proof of such fraud being widespread or significant enough (changing national vote tallies by zeros, etc), I feel Maliki should own up to the shenanigans of his own people and step down. He should take responsibility for those who have committed fraud for him or in his name, to obtain for him the power he wants. That is my view. His being disqualified by fraud means the next candidate takes the PM position - that is Allawi. But we will see if that view can prevail in the strange and often irrational parallel universe politicians live in - a universe where the normal laws and morality in our universe often don't seem to apply, at least for a while.
I sincerely hope your scenerio is correct when you speculate, A possible scenario might be that now during the election, and until a new government is formed, the whole political platform in Iraq is weakened and in limbo, so the CBI will take the opportunity to just go ahead with its plan and hurrily put it in place, so whether it will be Malaki, or Allawi, the development of the Dinar is a "de facto" issue, when they start their new regime.
I like that scenerio.. because I believe it bypasses what I believe to be the block to the Dinar's development - Maliki. But whatever way it goes, I pray God's will. Certainly there is some intent to get the Dinar developing by Shabibi.. if only those blocking it (Maliki included) can be removed from blocking the way to Iraq's prosperity in the future.
Sara.
-- March 13, 2010 10:40 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara and all,
I have noticed lately that the issue of Dinar , and exchangerate, is now almost always incorporated into most statements and reports, while in the past this was almost a dead subject.
The only pattern we had in the past was that some politician said something and it was almost immediately retracted by some other power. CBI didnt say anything at all, other than it's normal jargong in reports.
So I can conclude that in the past, anyone bringing up the Dinar issue, it was almost an irritant, but now, they are propagating that issue themselves.
You are right, that article is based on the report.
I noticed though that the aticle cut up the sentences from the report, and scrambled it together on different places, while in the "Letter of Intent" that Mr Shibibi sent to IMF, all those sentences was in one chapter, that makes another meaning to it.
My take is that the article is prepared by the public contact in CBI, and he made sure that it got scrambled up together with boring statistics and production figures.
The way it was actually written in the report to IMF, is the way I wrote it on my earlier blog in block letters.
All that you highlighted in the article was one separate paragraph.
Nothing is stranger than the truth.
Well, now it's official, they said they are going to do it, so.....I might get me another million or so.
R
-- March 13, 2010 11:46 PM ∞
Seadesk wrote:
Hey all,
Back from what seems like "forever" on the road.
Alaska is cold. Cheese and rice!
I really enjoy reading this forum. I just don't have that much to say or add. I'm a student taking lessons.
As of last Thursday, Mr. Issa is on "R & R," so I'm not sure my first 2010 ISX purchases (actually submitted last Thursday) are going through tomorrow as I'd hoped. Usually I just email requests only to him. We'll see...
Anyway, I bought more Warka, Land Transport, Baghdad Soft Drinks and Al-Badia. As you can guess, I'm betting on alot'ta drinking (soda) and driving to get stuff moved around Iraq in the next few years.
Roger, glad you're home and glad you're writing. Keep it up.
Peace.
Earl
-- March 14, 2010 1:00 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Too close to call, still.
===
Iraq releases, then withdraws, early Baghdad poll results
Baghdad |Saturday, 2010
Iraq's electoral commission Saturday released, then quickly withdrew, early results from Baghdad that showed Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's coalition leading in the capital.Al-Sumaria television reported that the electoral commission had said the early results from Baghdad, which will be represented by 68 out of 325 seats in the new parliament, released earlier were "unofficial" and "should be discarded."
Official, preliminary results from Badghad would be released later in the day, officials from Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said.
Iraqi politicians from across the political spectrum have criticised the slow and chaotic process of counting the votes as raising questions about the tally's fairness.
Results announced earlier pointed to a slim lead for al-Maliki's State of Law coalition over former prime minister Ayad Allawi's Iraqi List, with an alliance of mostly religious Shiite parties close behind.
http://www.netindia123.com/showdetails.asp?id=1464170&cat=World&head=Iraq+releases%2C+then+withdraws%2C+early+Baghdad+poll+results+%28Lead%29
-- March 14, 2010 1:31 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Hi Earl,
I have a lul now, when being back from the land of Camels and hooded women.
....and of course I am immediately drawn right back into T&B.
Never been in Alaska, but heard you can do gold prospecting there about three or four months of the year.
I am born above the Arctic circle so I have an idea what temperatures you are experiencing there.
There have been some exciting developments the very last days, and it turned out to be the best (in my opinion) solution to everything.
CBI have anounced that the Dinar will go on sale on Forex......as the Presient of CBI says...-"very soon".
I am checking into opening up a Forex account, and will do some more research of what dealer are buying and selling IQD's once they hit the market.
I want to be in, with a Forex order with some leverage, when they open up, I anticipate a value spike straight up.
When they open up it means that the IQD will be an accepted currency for the rest of the worlds banking community, so exchange can therefore take place in banks according to current spot price, as with any other bank that are running a currency desk.
Read up a little bit on this latest development, it is truly a break.
Your ISX purchases seem to be a good choice, and ...oh before I forget, there is also an election wrapping up in Iraq, now...a lot of changes.
Sara have done a great job covering that aspect.
(Sara ....huuuuuug)
So Earl, get in from the cold and read all the good news.
R
-- March 14, 2010 1:43 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
At this point, quote, "the figures are not representative and it is too close to call.
===
Iraq vote count too close to call
With early results representing only a fraction of the vote and no figures in from areas like Basra, overall results from Iraq's general elections were too close to call six days after the March 7 vote.By Saturday, preliminary tallies from 10 of Iraq's 18 provinces were in.
State of Law coalition led by Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq's prime minister, is leading among the three top rivals.
The cross-sectarian, secularist Iraqiya list headed by Iyad Allawi, the former prime minister, is running second, and the Iraqi National Alliance (INA), a rival to al-Maliki among Iraq's Shia majority, is a close third.
The powerful Kurdish parties led as expected in Erbil.
The Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said that just 18 per cent of the votes have been counted in Baghdad so far.
Also, as the results are not drawn equally from across the city, the figures are not representative.
Of the votes counted, 75 per cent were from Risafa, which is a predominiately Shia district and 25 per cent comes from Karkh, which is more Sunni and mixed.
Caution over Baghdad
Hazem al-Nuaimi, a political analyst, cautioned against reading too much into any early results from Baghdad as the city is now largely segregated along sectarian lines.
"It is clear that the final votes will be distributed among the blocs closely," Nuaimi said. "This means there will no winning bloc with a big margin."
Baghdad is worth twice as many seats in Iraq's next parliament as the next largest province.
The parliament has a total of 325 seats.
The votes tallied so far suggest weeks or months of horse-trading ahead to form a government and pick a prime minister.
Allegations of fraud may also unsettle the scenario.
Iraqiya has charged that ballots were dumped in the garbage, nearly a quarter of a million soldiers were denied voting rights and electoral commission workers fiddled with vote counts.
After the last elections in 2005, sectarian violence erupted as politicians took months to form a government.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/03/201031317039231784.html
"It is clear that the final votes will be distributed among the blocs closely,"
Perhaps they will find it to be "close enough" that they will end up with a new Prime Minister - Allawi instead of Maliki.
That would end the wrangling and concern over fraud and "fiddled with vote counts" - wouldn't it?Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 1:45 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
I guess someone got embarrased for tossing votes or having chimpansees at the voting computers, so they quickly restored dignity and respect, and are making a new announcement based on "new" facts.
Cheese, soda, crackers...anyone???
R
-- March 14, 2010 1:47 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger;
If it makes them respect the will of the people, more power to em.
They have proof of fraud, and one fellow there says it is widespread (proof to follow).
The only recourse or action they should be resorting to.. is making sure the will of the Iraqi people counts.
Unless Obama and this current Iraqi Administration wants to have more war and bloodshed.
How stupid and unnecessary.
Let's hope they grow wings and turn into complete angels..
counting the votes fairly and giving Maliki the longed for departure that non-Dinar RVer deserves.Hugggg back, btw. :)
Hi Earl.. pull up a chair and sit in.Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 3:00 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Summary of vote fraud allegations
Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.
http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2010\03\03-13\zsubz\912.htm&dismode=x&ts=13/03/2010%2011:00:11%20Õ
===
The accusations came a day after the European Delegation for Relations with Iraq reported that “blatant attempts are underway to defraud the Iraqi people of their true democratic choice in last weekend’s elections.”
"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," President of the delegation Struan Stevenson told the European Parliament.
"It appears that massive efforts are going into attempts to deny victory to Mr Allawi and his secularist, nationalist Al-Iraqiya list, who clearly must have secured an outright victory in the polls when such blatant attempts at fraud are taking place," Stevenson added.
http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10409346
===
But several violations reported by Mr Allawi have been confirmed by diplomats and poll observers. Haider al-Abadi, a senior adviser to Mr Maliki, spent about an hour inside the election data entry centre on Wednesday, a violation of the election rules. Supporters of Mr Allawi claim the adviser falsified nationwide records.
On the same day, six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.
Mr Allawi claimed 250,000 soldiers were refused the chance to vote, and said an election monitor had found ballot papers with votes for Mr Allawi dumped in the garden of a polling station in the northern city of Kirkuk.
Munir al-Gafili, the head of Kirkuk city council and an Allawi supporter, showed nine discarded ballots at a press conference in Baghdad. "Every one of them is marked for Allawi," he said. "That is no coincidence."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/poll-fraud-claims-put-iraq-at-risk/story-e6frg6so-1225840206342
Serious allegations indeed.
Perhaps it can be remedied by giving Allawi the "outright victory in the polls" he "must have secured", as Mr. Stevenson said?
After all, aren't we all after the same thing.. the truth and a victory for what is right.. concerning the Iraqi people?Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 3:20 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Lastly, this one, published: March 11, 2010, which states:
===
Mr. Allawi’s coalition said it had filed dozens of complaints with the commission.
At the evening news conference, Iraqiya members struck at the heart of Iraq’s election process, claiming that workers at the state election commission, who have been entering data in to computer systems, were caught fiddling with Iraqiya’s tally. Mr. Janabi said that United Nations monitors caught the tampering, and notified Iraqiya.
Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/world/middleeast/12iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.
A zero?Like.. the difference between 1,000 and 100? Or 5,000 and 500?
Big difference in a close race like this.
And remember, SIX workers were laid off for this kind of shenanigan (see previous post).
Certainly dropping a zero is an unnecessary thing to do.. unless Allawi was winning hands down, as Stevenson alleged.
Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 4:10 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Iraqis are getting there but are not there just yet.
Their first loyalty is to their Mullah.
Their second loyalty is to their Sheik and their clan.
Their third loyalty is to their secular belonging. Shiite, Sunni etc.As their fourth loyalty....then, they may say that they are Iraqis.
So if they are voting for Iraq, the members of the election process may very well do things that favors their Mullah, Sheik or secular belonging. Their first, second and third loyalty.
They haven't really got it just yet.....no , no no mr Johnson, you can't erase Kentucky from the voting just because someone in Kentucky stole a goat from you, and the guy that ran into your car last year was also from Kentucky, you can not disqualify Kentucky Mr Johnson......
....but they're getting there.
I just hope that this will not grow into such a volume, that it will severely impede the integrity of the process...
Ok Iraqis, you can do it.......
Pass the popcorn....
-- March 14, 2010 6:00 AM ∞
Roger wrote:
Zero lop.
One more denial.
The deputy President of The Central Bank of Iraq, denied, when the question was asked at an economic seminar at the University of Karbala, that there are any plans to delete three zeros from the currency.
It got some presscoverage, but it is untrue, he said.
-- March 14, 2010 10:01 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Is there Significant Fraud?
Roger and Board;
I was thinking about the brave Iraqi people, some of whom gave their very lives to vote, standing in line to make a difference to the direction of their country of Iraq. If many of the vote talliers (and six were caught, so how many more are there) took their votes and discarded them.. like 9,000 voted but only 900 got counted.. so that over EIGHT THOUSAND votes were "lost".. how fair is that? How RIGHT is that? It sure sounds SIGNIFICANT to me. And it appears that in every case it was Allawi's list which was discounted and Maliki's which they falsely attempted to make win. Maliki can deny he is behind it til he is blue in the face, but the fact remains that it is his people or people who are inspired by him who are the ones behind this, and he should own that the fraudulent effects which he is responsible for inspiring. After all, if they can say that it was not "widespread" - then they can discount the true votes of the people.. by the thousands and certify Maliki falsely.
Again, I ask.. is it SIGNIFICANT fraud.. and it appears to me that yes, it is. Can we get this "Significant Fraud" and deal with it BEFORE it causes a fraudulent result to be certified? Or is the truth that these corrupt politicans have learned how to use corrupt activist people who will act on their behalf to overcome the will of the Iraqi people?
There are now over 2,000 allegations of fraud in the Iraqi election which does give a person pause for thought as to whether things are truly progressing righteously and honestly. Certainly dropping a few "zeros" could disenfranchise thousands. Aren't they adopting our system? And, is this a crack in the wall of how they are implementing that system of how ballots are counted.. one which uses politically "bought" workers? How can we tell if they just keep sweeping these thousands of allegations under the rug?
An article yesterday, March 13, 2010, states, quote:
===
Allegations of fraud also have plagued the ballot tally. The electoral commission said more than 2,000 complaints had been received as of Saturday but it gave no specifics, saying only that they would be investigated.
"We should confess that some people have turned their back on these parties because they were disappointed by the performance of inefficient officials linked to religious parties," al-Zamili said.
Many experts have noted the rejection of nationalist, non-religious coalitions reflects Iraqi frustration with years of sectarian fighting as well as frustration over the past four years of religious parties to improve much needed government services.
"The voters have shown that they are fed up with the religious parties that failed to improve their life," said Nabil Salim, a political science professor at Baghdad University.
Iraqiya is led by one of al-Maliki's predecessors, former Premier Ayad Allawi, who is also Shiite. However, Iraqiya has attracted Sunnis who have similarly rejected their own religiously based politicians but remain suspicious of al-Maliki's continued, if lessened, ties to Iran.
Iraqiya officials kept up a drumbeat Saturday of fraud accusations - including discarded ballots and the failure of some provincial ballot boxes to be delivered to the counting centre in Baghdad - that they alleged may have cost them votes.
"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them," said Iraqiya spokeswoman Maysoun al-Damlouji.
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=w12612414
"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them,"
Is that too much to ask? With over two thousand allegations including the failure of entire ballot boxes full of votes to be delivered to the counting centre, I certainly hope that the truth will prevail as well.
The article notes some are, quote, "suspicious of al-Maliki's continued, if lessened, ties to Iran."
Does this show us who could possibly be helping with the fraud to make Maliki to win - Iran. The Iranians must have known that the people of Iraq are, quote, "fed up with the religious parties that failed to improve their life." They would understand the reality that an outright radical cleric like Sadr will not appeal to the Iraqi people. So could that knowledge be inspiring them toward helping to get Maliki into power because he is "closely tied" to Iran? Certainly, Maliki looks from the standpoint of Iran to be the best deal of the two.. but what of the will of the Iraqi people?
"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them,"
Instead of just letting those six poll workers go.. shouldn't they be asking them questions about those who motivated them to falsify results? And the ballot boxes which never arrived.. who was responsible to bring them to the counting center.. can they be detained and questioned? Isn't this an issue of national security? Or are all the national security services likewise ideologically "bought" by a foreign power seeking to overthrow the will of the Iraqi people?
I certainly wish people understood that a vote count can change the direction or course of history for an entire people and nation.. and that it is a matter of national security. It should be dealt with as such.
Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 1:57 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
1st LD: Iraq's secular bloc leads in Anbar province: electoral commission
Mar, 14, 2010 09:39 AM - Xinhua News Agency (China)BAGHDAD, Mar 14, 2010 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- The secular bloc led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi was leading in the preliminary results of parliamentary elections in Iraq's western province of Anbar, the electoral commission said Sunday.
The Iraqia secular bloc won 122,195 votes in the Sunni province of Anbar, while the Sunni Accord Front garnered 22,546, the Iraqi Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said.
The results are representing 58 percent of votes in the province, it said.
On March 7, an estimated 62.4 percent of more than 18 million eligible voters cast their ballots in some 8,920 polling centers across the country to elect the 325-seat Iraqi Council of Representatives out of some 6,300 candidates.
http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10411808
122,195 to 22,546.. with 58 percent votes counted.. quite a walloping.
If such a result were widespread.. what strategy could be employed for it to be overcome?
Discarding ballot boxes, altering the tallies by dropping zeros off the end, discarding ballots for Allawi into a field, perhaps?Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 2:13 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
QUOTE from article below:
"For the Iranians, maintaining a compliant government in Baghdad is a crucial matter of national security"
(end quote)
So.. Maybe the Iranians "bought" election workers who did the fraud to the Iraqi people's votes with literally millions of dollars?
Oh, what it is to have a weak leader and appeaser in the WH.. to international politics.
They just let them do this.. they are truly "weak" on more than just US national security..
they are weak on helping to keep the national security of Iraq.===
Tehran's Vote Buying in Iraq
By David Ignatius
February 25, 2010WASHINGTON -- Iran is conducting what U.S. officials say is a broad covert-action campaign to influence Iraq's elections next month, pumping money and other assistance to its allies. The best way to counter this assault, American officials have decided, is by exposing it publicly.
The most direct criticism of Iran's meddling has come from Gen. Ray Odierno, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq. In meetings with reporters during a visit to Washington last week, he focused on the role played by Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi who lobbied the Bush administration to invade Iraq in 2003 and is now alleged to be working closely with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).
Odierno has also briefed top Iraqi leaders in Baghdad on U.S. intelligence reports about the Iranian campaign. A source provided me with an unclassified summary of Odierno's briefing, which included the following allegations:
"-- Iran provides money, campaign materials, and political training to various individual candidates and political parties (in Iraq).
"-- Iran interferes in Iraq's political process, urging alliances that not all Iraqi politicians favor, in an effort to consolidate power among parties supported by Iran. For example ... Ahmed Chalabi met with IRGC Quds Force Commander Qassem Soleimani and Iranian Foreign Minister (Manouchehr) Mottaki in late November to discuss" merger of two slates of Shiite candidates backed by Iran.
"-- Iran supports de-Baathification efforts engineered by Ahmed Chalabi for the purpose eliminating potential obstacles to Iranian influence. Chalabi is also interested in Iran's assistance in securing the office of Prime Minister.
"-- According to all-source intelligence, Ahmed Chalabi visited Iran at least three times since last year. Additionally, he met with key Iranian leaders in Iraq on at least five occasions."
The decision to release this sort of intelligence information is unusual, and it reflects concern across the U.S. government about Iran's push to shape the March 7 Iraqi balloting. The U.S. has "information operations" and other activities in Iraq to counter the Iranians, but apparently it has not mounted a full-scale covert-action campaign of its own, in part because of a desire not to manipulate a democracy that America helped create.
"To covertly go after Iran, we're too late," says a top U.S. official. "What we can do is expose."
Chalabi, reached by e-mail, denied Odierno's allegations that he was acting as an Iranian agent: "These accusations resurface every time we take a course of action that is contrary to the political agenda of the U.S. ... However, we forgive General Odierno because he captured Saddam (Hussein)."
Iran's operations in Iraq are directed by Soleimani, who is described by people who have met him as a brilliant, soft-spoken Persian version of John le Carre's master spy, Karla. He is backed by his deputy for Iraq, known as Abu Mahdi Mohandes, who U.S. officials say was involved in the bombing of the U.S. embassy in Kuwait in 1983.
The Iranians allegedly are pumping $9 million a month in covert aid to the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a Shiite party that has the most seats in the Iraqi parliament, and $8 million a month to the militant Shiite movement headed by Moqtada al-Sadr.
The current Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is said to play a delicate balancing game with Iran, opposing some of its moves and acceding to others. According to U.S. intelligence reports, a member of Maliki's staff personally hand-delivers sensitive documents from Tehran, thereby avoiding electronic communications that might be intercepted.
For the Iranians, maintaining a compliant government in Baghdad is a crucial matter of national security, especially for the generation that survived the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s. Tehran is still settling scores for that conflict. According to U.S. intelligence reports, the Iranians two months ago circulated a list of 600 Iraqi officers who are targeted for assassination because of their role in the Iraq-Iran war. Asked what the U.S. was doing to counter these killings, a commander responded: "We notify people who are on the list."
"The Iranians are everywhere, all over the place -- overtly, covertly, you name it," says a White House official who closely monitors Iraq. "They're putting chips on red and black and whatever is in between."
The best check against these Iranian machinations, U.S. officials believe, is the simple patriotism of the Iraqi people. Opinion polls show that Iran is even more mistrusted by Iraqis than is America. Iranian meddling has backfired in the past, officials say, and they are hoping that will happen again when Iraqis go to the polls.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/02/25/tehrans_vote_buying_in_iraq_104556.html
"To covertly go after Iran, we're too late," says a top U.S. official.
Too late? What were they doing instead of paying attention in Iraq? Sleeping? Playing golf? Trying to ram Obamacare down America's throat instead?
The Iranians allegedly are pumping $9 million a month in covert aid... and $8 million a month...
"The Iranians are everywhere, all over the place -- overtly, covertly, you name it," says a White House official who closely monitors Iraq. "They're putting chips on red and black and whatever is in between."
Soo.. maybe Iran bought a few vote talliers.. and a few who were supposed to deliver the ballot boxes.. or those who discarded Allawi votes into a field? Surely an election worker or tallier is worth far more than just getting one individual's vote through the use of "campaign materials" because they can remove thousands of votes by not inputting a zero in the voting tally? Patriotism is nice, but it won't protect the people of Iraq from outright bought workers and their fraud. That will take standing up and not sweeping this under the rug.. to deliver the Iraqi people from this widespread and significant FRAUD at Iran's behest. Is anyone able to grow a backbone and stand for the truth.. and win?
And if the Iranians do win.. it will be back to politics as usual.. and the Dinar RV discussion will die down, and they will go back to inaction and not allowing the Dinar to develop.. because, you know, the Iranians don't want a powerful, prosperous and independent Iraq right next door. It might undermine their hold on power in the region. Best if the Iraqi people are kept poor, impoverished and oppressed.. like their own Iranian people. No Dinar RV if Maliki gets in, is my view... because Tehran doesn't want him to, and they have "close ties." The only reason for the discussion of it now is to give false hope that it could be done under Maliki.. a smokescreen in my view, since he could have done so before in the years which have passed, but he never has.
Sara.
-- March 14, 2010 2:46 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
ISX
Time of uncertainty, no one knows where the election is going to go, and it reflects also in the ISX trading. It is pretty much a sideways trading right now.
Mostly markets are trading sideways (flat) 80% of the time, and trending (up or down) 20% of the time.
This holds true in most markets, Stocks, Forex or Futures markets.
One tick up or down is not a trend, it has to be seen as a statistic, during a longer time frame.
The fact that the ISX market is trading flat right now indicate a waiting, or expecting mode.
The ISX market does not expect fear, it would in that case trend downward right now.
Western markets reacts much quicker to election results, because the vote system is computerized and instantaneous, thus results are generally known at the beginning of next trading day, and reaction on the market, to the voting results, usually shows in a trend the next trading day. Sometimes the trend continues for some considerable time.
ISX is posed to break a very long flat trading, to a trending trading soon.
The classic market behaviour for a trending market is a trend in one direction, then it takes a pause, and consolidate, then trend in that direction for a while and again consolidate.....and so on.
If the trend is strong the trend is prevalent, then the consolidation plateaus are shorter.
An economic expansion can drive a trending market for a long time.
If the market is trading flat,(sideways) the market will see an endless see saw.
A market is built on expectancy, a future hope, a postulate of the future.
Big money will affect a market, smaller investors can't, and they are better just follow the market.
-- March 14, 2010 7:14 PM ∞
Roger wrote:
Sara,
Is it significant voters fraud. It may appear so , but it may also be a concerted drive from one party to highlite it so much, that it will, in case of the opposite party would win, it would make it look illegit.
The fact that it actually has happen is pretty clear, but the size of it, well hard to say.
There are hundreds of international observers on the ground, and one of them caught this guy deleting zeros.
There are other allegations as well, yes.
I am pretty confident that the very vast majority of ballot workers are doing a good job, because even if there would be a wide spread organized fraud attempt, it would be very hard to conceal that from all the observers on the ground.
Again, they are trying to be Iraqis, I will give them that chance, even of they have not got their loyalties straight just yet.
This election is a fostering excercise of where their loyalties should be. For Iraq, not their Mullah, Sheik or secular affiliation.
They are about to create a biger bubble right now, in their own universe, the bigger bubble, Iraq, is enveloping all those other small bubbles they've been sitting in.
That is confusing for some Iraqis, but it is an action they do as a whole nation, and the air is electrified in Iraq with this new concept.
Just the election process itself throws it out there for everyone to see, they are doing something, and wether they have other loyalties, or not it doesn't matter, because what they are doing is an Iraqi thing.
The election makes the whole nation, not parading for their Mullah or Sheik or whatever, but it makes the whole nation parade as Iraqis. And doing what they do...afterwards they will be right in it, and defend that concept.
I would hold back the panic button for a while, and the whole thing develops.
The end goal of Democracy is not an election, that is just an effect of it, the end goal is to share responibility and live by the laws you create.
If there is a massive voters fraud, and it is to such an extent that it compromise the election, then the Iraqis have the next challenge, live up to their own laws.
Punish those that did fraud, and recount the election.
At the end everybody can't ever be satisfied, but the general concesus has to come to a conclusion that this nation did the right thing, both with voting, and in case of voters fraud, live by their own laws.
And in case the scenario of recount will happen, that will make the Iraqis more Iraqis.
-- March 14, 2010 8:00 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger;
I must agree.
Though there has been allegations of widespread and significant voter fraud, millions of ballots were cast and for the main, even with ballot boxes missing and zeros being deleted.. unless there is more evidence of it being significant and widespread, I think in the main it has been a successful process and may reflect the will of the Iraqi people. The jury is still out but certainly, Mr. Allawi appears ready to form a governing consensus in spite of his objections. He seems optimistic when they say of him, quote, Allawi hopes a government can be formed late this month or early next.===
It's Iraq for Iraqis now
Posted: March 14, 2010Iraq is the country that refuses to die: Saddam Hussein tried to break his people by torture and poison gas, but he failed. America arrogantly mismanaged the first years of its occupation and nearly triggered a civil war, but the Iraqis held on. Iran tried to choke its neighbor, assassinating Iraqis it didn't like and bribing the country's politicians.
Somehow, the Iraqi nation not only survived these catastrophes, but is becoming the Middle East's most freewheeling democracy.
Last Sunday's election shouldn't be seen as a victory celebration, least of all by the United States. There's more pain and violence ahead, and there will be moments when analysts will be wondering anew if Iraq can hold together.
But at least the country truly belongs to its people now. The politicians of the new Iraq are a mercurial, conniving and sometimes corrupt crew. But they're Iraqis, and arguably that's the only thing that really matters.
Iraq's resilience -- its sheer, stubborn staying power -- can be seen in three images of a Sunni politician named Qassim Mohammed Fahdawi, who is the governor of Anbar province. When I met him in Ramadi in December, he was pitching a group of visiting Americans about investment opportunities in Anbar, handing out a glossy supplement that had been printed by the Financial Times. Just three years before, this had been al-Qaeda's home base in Iraq, and now he was talking bond guarantees.
It sounded too good to last, and it was: On Dec. 30, Fahdawi was badly injured in an al-Qaeda suicide attack at the very compound where he had been making his investment pitch two weeks before. About 30 people were killed and dozens more wounded.
The third snapshot comes in the run-up to Election Day. Fahdawi defied doctors' orders and returned in a wheelchair to Ramadi, after leg surgery and the amputation of his arm, to urge his fellow Sunnis to vote.
If toughness were enough, Iraq would be the greatest country on earth. But the hard, stoical qualities that help the Iraqis survive sometimes prevent them from making the compromises and deals that are necessary for effective governance.
The best thing about Sunday's election, judging from early results, is that no party won so big that it can form a government on its own. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's coalition (improbably called "State of Law") will dicker with the Shiite religious party headed by Vice President Adel Abdul Mahdi, which will bargain simultaneously with the secular party headed by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. And everyone will be trying to woo the Kurds.
This will be democracy Iraq-style, something closer to a day spent haggling in the souk than a visit to the Lincoln Memorial.
I called Allawi in Baghdad on Thursday to get a sense of how the political horse-trading will proceed. Initial election results suggest that his Iraqiya coalition won in two northern provinces, Diyala and Salahuddin. He said he is already talking with other factions, trying to gain support for a nonsectarian "government of reconciliation" that reaches across the parties.
All the candidates are bartering for votes, but Allawi's contacts are typical: He said he is talking with Jawad Bolani, the Shiite interior minister; Sheik Ahmed Abu-Risha, the head of the Sunni Awakening movement; Abdul Mahdi, a leader of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq; Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani; and followers of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Allawi offered to negotiate with Maliki, too, if he backs a nonsectarian government.
Allawi hopes a government can be formed late this month or early next. Few others are that optimistic. They worry about a protracted period of political bargaining and a power vacuum in Baghdad that allows a new round of sectarian fighting. Preventing this downward spiral is the challenge for Maliki, Allawi and the others. But it's their country now, to make or break.
In the darkest days of the Iraq War, it was tempting for Americans to think that we could walk away from the mess we had created. Things look better now than anyone could have imagined in 2006, but the United States still has a moral and strategic obligation to help this fragile democracy move forward -- not least because of the thousands of American lives that were lost in the years leading up to Sunday's election.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100314/OPINION12/3140324/1301/OPINION
We will have to wait and see if anything more comes of the allegations.
It is an Iraqi party.. and one the West has an obligation to help to stand.. without corruption, as far as is possible.
We'll have to see what comes of the protests and vote tampering in the coming days.Sara.
-- March 15, 2010 12:03 AM ∞
Paul wrote:
Regardless of all that is going on with the elections in iraq; it seems they still have to rv the dinar because of the agreements with the World Bank and the IMF.
They still have to make good on their notes that are due. they are not allowed to make payments with gold or US dollars they have in a reserve account, so what other options do they have. The IMF may step in and rv it for them.-- March 15, 2010 10:03 AM ∞
Jack wrote:
The Sunni insurgency in the Anbar Province destabilized Iraq for a long time. Sunnis are tough sons of bitches. The Sunnis used to run Iraq and had most of the money from oil. Now the Shiites are mostly running things. Sunnis know they should be very rich like their Arab cousins in nearby countries, in no time flat. So if there is no RV and economic progress, there will be hell to pay, and many people will die in a new insurgency. Sunnis don't like Iranians, who are Shiites. The Shiites including Maliki have a choice: Listen to Iran and hold back progress, and don't worry about an RV and getting oil going in a big way. The price of that choice is reigniting the insurgency, and many people dying in another long war. Or, the other choice is pushing progress and oil contracts and everybody gets rich, and there is no insurgency. Sunnis are more than willing to kill and be killed to get what they want. The ball is in Malki's court.
-- March 15, 2010 8:10 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Of Maliki this says, quote,
“It looked like he would come first, it still does, but maybe not with a big enough lead to guarantee the prime ministership.”
Western officials described Mr. Allawi’s race with Mr. Maliki as “neck and neck.” The returns suggest a striking comeback for Mr. Allawi.
===
Iraq Election Results Hint of Political Shift
By ANTHONY SHADID
Published: March 15, 2010BAGHDAD — Partial election results released Monday suggested a sharp and divisive shift in power in Iraq, with a secular candidate challenging Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki.
The results were not yet conclusive, and given the complicated formula for allotting seats, the relative strengths of the major coalitions could change. But an updated tally of last week’s parliamentary voting suggested a new equation of leadership that hewed to an older arithmetic.
Traditional Kurdish and Shiite Arab alliances were confronted with movements that contested their claims to leadership, in particular the followers of the radical cleric Moktada al-Sadr, who fought the Americans twice in 2004. Sunni Arab voters were newly emboldened in an election in which they forcefully took part under the banner of a secular alliance.
But in many ways, the vote solidified ethnic and sectarian divisions. Despite a conscious effort by most parties to appeal to nationalist sentiments, people still voted along the lines of identity. Those demarcations of Sunni Arab, Shiite Arab or Kurd have bedeviled attempts to solve the country’s most pressing issues, including borders disputed between Arabs and Kurds and the power of the federal government in a country still haunted by decades of dictatorship.
The tally released Monday represented about two-thirds of the votes cast in the March 7 election for a 325-member Parliament. The process has proved chaotic so far, with accusations of fraud by leading parties, divisions among highly politicized electoral officials and chaos in disclosing the results, which had been expected last week.
On Monday night, pandemonium erupted again, as officials repeatedly delayed the release of the partial count, then closed their offices before the complete tally was made public.
Western officials have acknowledged the partisan disputes inside the election headquarters, but played down irregularities that might deprive the election of legitimacy.
“We haven’t seen a single piece of evidence of widespread fraud,” said one official, speaking anonymously because of the delicacy of the issue.
In the broadest strokes, the results confirmed some expectations before the election. Mr. Maliki was winning significantly in six of Iraq’s nine southern provinces, populated by the country’s Shiite majority. The coalition led by Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite and former prime minister who has emerged as a default leader for Sunnis, scored gains in Iraq’s Sunni provinces, sometimes overwhelmingly.
Baghdad, with 70 seats in Parliament, emerged as a crucial test. Mr. Maliki was winning a plurality, though Mr. Allawi’s slate was running a relatively close second.
“The decisive region is Baghdad,” said Mr. Askari, the candidate allied with Mr. Maliki.
Many expected Mr. Maliki to win a plurality. For the prime minister, though, any margin of victory will prove crucial in giving him a mandate to lead negotiations with rival coalitions, whose leaders include some who fear Mr. Maliki’s authoritarian tendencies or dislike him personally. Mr. Sadr’s followers, for instance, vehemently oppose his return.
“It looked like he would come first, it still does, but maybe not with a big enough lead to guarantee the prime ministership,” said a Western diplomat who was not authorized to speak on the record.
Western officials described Mr. Allawi’s race with Mr. Maliki as “neck and neck.” The returns suggest a striking comeback for Mr. Allawi.
Many have read his strong showing as a victory for a cross-sectarian alliance that hewed to a nationalist line. But the results released on Monday show that his coalition had only moderate gains in the Shiite south, scoring a distant third in most provinces there. That has made for one of the election’s greatest paradoxes: a secular Shiite heading the Sunni bloc in Parliament.
It also points to the greatest difficulty Mr. Allawi will face: balancing the demands of his new constituency with the necessities of forging an alliance to lead the government. An ally on his list has insisted that the presidency go to a Sunni Arab rather than to a Kurd. Many of the powerful candidates on his list, known as Iraqiya, are also adamantly opposed to concessions to Kurds along disputed borders.
“If the fundamentalists inside Iraqiya remain on this course, then no patriotic bloc would ever partner with them,” said Khalid Shwani, a Parliament member and candidate in Kirkuk for an alliance of the Kurdish region’s two traditionally dominant parties.
Those two parties found themselves on unfamiliar ground. They have been disappointed with their tally so far in Kirkuk, a city contested by Turkmens, Arabs and Kurds, where they had expected to win as many as two-thirds of the seats. With 60 percent of the vote counted, their alliance lagged behind Mr. Allawi’s coalition of Arabs and Turkmens.
The Kurdish alliance also faced a challenge to its leadership from Kurds themselves.
The party of President Jalal Talabani, one of the two most prominent Kurdish leaders and a veteran of Iraqi politics, was outpolled in his home province by the combined votes of an Islamist party and a third Kurdish group, Gorran, or Change, a renegade faction of his own movement.
“This is a great achievement — the Kurdistan alliance against a movement that’s less than a year old,” said Dana Ahmed Majid, a spokesman for Gorran.
A major realignment was also under way within the Shiite alliance that represented Mr. Maliki’s biggest challenge in the south. Former exiles who played a dominant role in Shiite politics since 2003 lagged behind candidates of Mr. Sadr in Baghdad and several provinces. Candidates and other politicians say Mr. Sadr’s followers may have even won a majority of the alliance’s votes, making them second only to Mr. Maliki as a Shiite force.
Rivals question the movement’s maturity. Mr. Sadr remains in exile in Iran. Others wonder about the unpredictability of a group that has embraced the political process but still celebrates a martial culture built on its fight with the American military.
“The major sectarian political blocs have been broken to pieces,” said Ghassan al-Attiya, a political analyst. “But it is not yet the end of sectarian politics.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/world/middleeast/16iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
-- March 16, 2010 1:56 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Paul and Jack;
Both interesting scenerios.. we will have to see if your speculations pan out.
Appreciate your sharing your thoughts with the board.
Would there be any documents saying any of these things you could point to..
Like.. one saying the Iraqis cannot repay in USD or gold, for instance?
Personally, if you wished to repay me with gold or USD I wouldn't say no.. just saying.
Trying to follow the logic involved in your argument... err, from a "Banker's perspective."Sara.
-- March 16, 2010 2:06 AM ∞
February 1, 2010
Dinar and Discussion For February 2010
By DinarAdmin
This is the Dinar And Discussion Page for February, 2010
DinarAdmin wrote:
No filter holdups in it.
DinarAdmin.
-- February 1, 2010 2:25 AM ∞
RON wrote:
Hi all a new scratch pad.this could be the month that a roll on the dinar train could start for the Iraqi people and we dinarians
MAY GOD BLESS US ALL AND IRAQ-- February 1, 2010 9:42 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Ron,
I doubt it but if it helps you psychologically to believe in myths feel free to do so.
Thanks,Rob N.
-- February 1, 2010 10:52 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
I agree with you Ron.
We may be very close.
Though often the catalyst for positive changing of economic situations can be negative, at first.
As, I suppose, it would seem the fortunes of Iraq were about to be terrible, just on the eve of the US going in to take out Saddam Hussein.
It yeilded a good outcome, eventually.
But that wasn't the feeling going into the war, was it?Sara.
-- February 1, 2010 11:26 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Nothing like having a peacenik in the Whitehouse during a time of war.
One who does too little, too late.
One whose approach, this article says.. has failed.
QUOTE:
Obama's attempts to emphasise diplomacy over confrontation in dealing with Iran – a contrast to the Bush administration's approach – have failedAnd also... quite obviously,
One whose stance as a warrior championing the US cause is not taken seriously.===
US raises stakes on Iran by sending in ships and missiles
Pentagon says Patriot shield will deter strike on American allies in the Gulf
Chris McGreal in Washington
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 January 2010Tension between the US and Iran heightened dramatically today with the disclosure that Barack Obama is deploying a missile shield to protect American allies in the Gulf from attack by Tehran.
The US is dispatching Patriot defensive missiles to four countries – Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Kuwait – and keeping two ships in the Gulf capable of shooting down Iranian missiles. Washington is also helping Saudi Arabia develop a force to protect its oil installations.
American officials said the move is aimed at deterring an attack by Iran and reassuring Gulf states fearful that Tehran might react to sanctions by striking at US allies in the region. Washington is also seeking to discourage Israel from a strike against Iran by demonstrating that the US is prepared to contain any threat.
The deployment comes after Obama's attempts to emphasise diplomacy over confrontation in dealing with Iran – a contrast to the Bush administration's approach – have failed to persuade Tehran to open its nuclear installations to international controls. The White House is now trying to engineer agreement for sanctions focused on Iran's Revolutionary Guard, believed to be in charge of the atomic programme.
Washington has not formally announced the deployment of the Patriots and other anti-missile systems, but by leaking it to American newspapers the administration is evidently seeking to alert Tehran to a hardening of its position.
The chief of the US central command, General David Petraeus, said in a speech 10 days ago that countries in the region are concerned about Tehran's military ambitions and the prospect of it becoming a dominant power in the Gulf: "Iran is clearly seen as a very serious threat by those on the other side of the Gulf front."
Washington is also concerned at the threat of action by Israel, which is predicting that Iran will be able to build a nuclear missile within a year, a much faster timetable than assessed by the US, and is warning that it will not let Tehran come close to completion if diplomacy fails.
The director of the CIA, Leon Panetta, met the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and other senior officials in Jerusalem last week to discuss Iran.
Pro-Israel lobby groups in the US have joined Republican party leaders in trying to build public pressure on the administration to take a tougher line with Iran. One group, the Israel Project, has been running a TV campaign warning that Iran might supply nuclear weapons to terrorists.
"Imagine Washington DC under missile attack from nearby Baltimore," it says. "A nuclear Iran is a threat to peace, emboldens extremists, and could give nuclear materials to terrorists with the ability to strike anywhere."
Washington is also concerned that if Iran is able to build nuclear weapons, other states in the region will feel the need to follow. Israel is the only country in the Middle East to already have atomic bombs, although it does not officially acknowledge it.
The US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, said in London last week that the US will press for additional sanctions against Iran if it fails to curb its nuclear programme.
However, China and Russia are still pressing for a diplomatic solution.
Tony Blair, Middle East envoy on behalf of the US, Russia, the UN and the EU, continually referred to what he described as the Iranian threat during his evidence at the Chilcot inquiry last Friday. Textual analysis now shows that he mentioned Iran 58 times.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/iran-nuclear-us-missiles-gulf
"A nuclear Iran is a threat to peace, emboldens extremists, and could give nuclear materials to terrorists with the ability to strike anywhere."
You don't say.
"Imagine Washington DC under missile attack from nearby Baltimore.."
ONE nuclear missile, you mean?
Has anyone ever noticed that the terrorists tend to use multiple attacks at once?
Like the latest coordinated attacks in Iraq and the ones referred to before that, highlighted below:====
At least 36 dead as car bombs rock Baghdad hotels
Haider Kadhim, BAGHDAD
Mon Jan 25, 2010BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Three large car bombs rocked well-known Baghdad hotels on Monday, killing at least 36 people and ending a 1-1/2-month lull in coordinated assaults on the Iraqi capital as the country heads into a March election.
Police said at least 71 people were wounded in the separate suicide car bombings, which went off within minutes of one another. Some of the casualties were police. Health Ministry data showed a lower figure for the death toll.
The first blast occurred near an entrance of the Ishtar Sheraton hotel, a Baghdad landmark on the eastern side of the Tigris River. The shock wave blew open doors, shattered windows and sent thick dust swirling into the Reuters offices nearby.
A giant mushroom cloud of debris rose from the blast site as ambulances and fire trucks rushed to the scene. Helicopters buzzed overhead and soldiers blocked off entry.
Towering concrete blastwalls protecting the hotel along the Abu Nawas riverside boulevard fell like dominoes. The blast took place across from a park frequented by families and picnickers.
The building has not been a regular hotel for years and largely houses company offices and some media organizations, but some adventurous international tour groups began using it last year.
Police said another blast went off just outside the al-Hamra hotel, which has been a hub for many Western journalists since the 2003 U.S. invasion. One Western reporter said the hotel had sustained heavy damage. The Washington Post said three of its Iraqi employees were wounded.
Houses collapsed near the Hamra, and civil defense officials searched for survivors. The blast at the Hamra, like that at the Sheraton, ripped a giant crater in the pavement.
A final bomb appeared to have blown up near the Babylon hotel, which is used by Iraqi travelers and sometimes for government meetings.
The last major attack on Baghdad occurred on December 8 when a series of car bombs killed more than 100 people. On October 25 and August 19, a total of around 250 people were killed in suicide assaults on government buildings.
-- February 1, 2010 11:36 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Remember the report.. weapons, not A weapon:
===
Report says Al-Qaeda still aims to use weapons of mass destruction against U.S.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 26, 2010"If Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants had been interested in . . . small-scale attacks, there is little doubt they could have done so now," Mowatt-Larssen writes in a report released Monday by the Harvard Kennedy School of Government's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.
Mowatt-Larssen, a 23-year CIA veteran, led the agency's internal task force on al-Qaeda and weapons of mass destruction after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and later was named director of intelligence and counterintelligence for the Energy Department. His report warns that bin Laden's threat to attack the West with weapons of mass destruction is not "empty rhetoric" but a top strategic goal for an organization that seeks the economic ruin of the United States and its allies to hasten the overthrow of pro-Western governments in the Islamic world.
He cites patterns in al-Qaeda's 15-year pursuit of weapons of mass destruction that reflect a deliberateness and sophistication in assembling the needed expertise and equipment.
Mowatt-Larssen said he has seen no evidence linking al-Qaeda's program with the anthrax attacks on U.S. politicians and news outlets in 2001. Zawahiri's plan was aimed at mass casualties and "not just trying to scare people with a few letters," he said.
Evidence from al-Qaeda documents and interrogations suggests that terrorists leaders had settled on anthrax as the weapon of choice and believed that the tools for a major biological attack were within their grasp, the former CIA official said. Al-Qaeda remained interested in nuclear weapons as well but understood that the odds of success were much longer.
"They realized they needed a lucky break," Mowatt-Larssen said. "That meant buying or stealing fissile material or acquiring a stolen bomb."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/25/AR2010012502598.html
Who needs to buy or steal fissile material when Iran is about to go nuclear?
Do you honestly think Iran won't help the Al-Qaeda get the "Great Satan?"
Obama sure seems a "lucky break" for the terrorists.
A real God-send.Is America fiddling with the economy while Rome is about to burn?
Sara.
-- February 1, 2010 12:29 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara:
To those holding the Iraqi Dinar instead of expecting a revaluation prepare for devaluation. Iraq like the USD is expanding its monetary supply by monetizing its debt while obtainning more; Iraq has just accepted a 7 trillion dinar loan from the IMF. Iraq will continue to accumulate debt. Unforunately, the Iraqi government like its U.S. counter part is is currently in the process of debasing its currency. Like the USD Iraq's dinar has little to no purchasing power while the banking sector attempts to create another debtor nation. Finally, the Iraqi Dinar like the USD does not have any tangible assets tied to it.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- February 1, 2010 12:52 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Iran's Threats.. a review of the attack level first
You know, Iran has often threatened things and not carried through on them.
But one of these days, they intend to.
It does make a person wonder if the veiled threat given today is the one, with the rating of "severe" being the terrorist threat level now in the UK and terrorists trying to get into the US (to do what?) as I said in my previous post.
QUOTE:Remember that pesky previous article about an upcoming attack?
===
Bin Laden wording 'indicator' of upcoming attack: monitor
Sun Jan 24, 2010WASHINGTON (AFP) – Osama bin Laden's word choice in the latest audio message attributed to him is seen as a "possible indicator" of an upcoming attack by his Al-Qaeda network, a US monitoring group warned Sunday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100124/ts_alt_afp/attacksusnigeriabinladenthreat_20100124182004
Well.. I have to ask you.. WHERE is that attack likely to be?
Hmmm..
Well, the UK felt their intelligence people indicate it may be them.. so they have raised their risk level to just under imminent/critical.. to SEVERE, the highest level possible without specific intelligence to help them know where or when:
===Terrorist threat level raised to 'severe'
January 22, 2010Britain's terrorist threat level was raised tonight from “substantial” to “severe” - meaning that counter-terrorism agencies believe an attack is “highly likely”.
Sources said there had been intensive discussions throughout the day relating to intelligence suggesting a possible attempted “spectacular” by an al-Qaeda affiliated group.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6999294.ece
THEN.. they said that they had apprehended two people on their 'no fly' lists.. heading where? To the USA.
That story here:
===Terror alert: Two men on 'no-fly' list stopped at Heathrow
24/01/2010Two men were stopped boarding US-bound planes at Heathrow days before Britain's terror threat was raised to "severe".
News of the incidents came hours after Home Secretary Alan Johnson lifted the threat level amid fears that al-Qaeda is planning an attack.The new level, which means an attack is reckoned "highly likely", is second only to "critical".
Anti-terror officials said the past week had seen an "unusually high" number of people on their no-fly list trying to board US-bound planes.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/01/24/terror-alert-two-men-on-no-fly-list-stopped-at-heathrow-115875-21990980/
So lets connect the dots.. severe threat.. Bin laden indicating an upcoming attack.. and these two men heading TO THE USA who are terrorists. What kind of specialized knowledge would they possess? Anything about WMD, perhaps? Then yesterday the one about Al-Qaeda seeking WMD... and this one sheds further light by showing the target, uncannily, is the same place these two men were heading.. the USA.
===end quote===
So.. in light of this.. what about today's threat?
Does it mean anything?Sara.
-- February 1, 2010 3:10 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Anything here to be concerned about?
Iran To Deliver ‘Harsh Blow’ On Feb 11
From Iran’s Press TV:‘Iran will deliver telling blow to global powers on Feb. 11′
Mon, 01 Feb 2010Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says the nation will deliver a harsh blow to the "global arrogance" on this year’s anniversary of the Islamic Revolution.
"The Islamic Revolution opened a window to liberty for the human race, which was trapped in the dead ends of materialism," Ahmadinejad said during a cabinet meeting on Sunday.
"If the Islamic Revolution had not occurred, liberalism and Marxism would have crushed all human dignity in their power-seeking and money-grubbing claws. Nothing would have remained of human and spiritual principles," he added.
The Iranian president made the remarks as the 31st anniversary of the Islamic Revolution approaches.
Iranians are expected to pour into the streets on February 11 to celebrate the occasion in public rallies across the country, as they have done annually over the past three decades.
===
Funny, Hitler and his crew often spoke of Nazism as the third way between money-grubbing (Jewish) capitalism and (Jewish) Marxism.
This may be related the the ultimatum/deadline that Iran gave the West a couple weeks ago:
Iran Gives West A One Month Deadline
Iran gives West ultimatum to accept uranium swap
by Aresu Eqbali Sat Jan 2TEHRAN (AFP) – Iran’s foreign minister gave the West a one-month "ultimatum" on Saturday to accept a uranium swap, warning that it will produce its own nuclear fuel for a Tehran reactor if there is no deal.
"The international community has just one month left to decide whether or not it will accept Iran’s conditions," Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki was quoted by state television as saying.
"This is an ultimatum."
On Wednesday, US State Department spokesman Darby Holladay said the West will still focus on "dual-track policy" regarding the Islamic republic.
"Even as we leave the door open to engagement," world powers agree that Iran will pay the consequences if it does not meet its international nuclear obligations, Darby told AFP.
The five permanent members of the UN Security Council — the United States, Russia, China, France, and Britain — plus Germany are "in the process of considering next steps consistent with our dual-track policy," he said.
===
Mind you, Mr. Obama’s December 31, 2009 deadline that Iran ignored was the final, ‘we really mean it this time,’ mother of all deadlines.
But Iran knows it will never face any real consequences.
Not at the hands of Mr. Obama and the UN.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/iran-gives-west-one-month-deadline
This article was posted by Steve Gilbert on Monday, February 1st, 2010.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/iran-to-deliver-telling-blow-on-feb-11
Soo.. maybe it is only that they will finally produce their own nuclear fuel.. is that it?
Or is there something more to it?
It is a blow to hear a new program has started developing nuclear fuel, but..
Is it truly a HARSH BLOW to GLOBAL ARROGANCE/GLOBAL POWERS?Sara.
-- February 1, 2010 3:50 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Should we just disagree?
Rob N;
Reply to your post as soon as I can, I need to give it some thought on exactly how to address your points.
.....................Hmm... I've been thinking..
I am not sure the points are relevant, to start off.. because of you having no Dinar which means you are arguing from a certain point of view we Dinarians already do not have.. namely, that the investment is pointless. I'm not sure it is worth addressing the entire paradigm shift or worldviewpoint you have, as opposed to picking off your arguments one by one. But surely you can see the direction I am going?.. and I can certainly see how Dinar Revaluation could easily fit into how the future world will look, in spite of those pointed objections you brought up. Or maybe it is like chess.. which is a game about who sees how many moves ahead in the game. But if I prove you wrong.. will you admit it and rebuy Dinar? Somehow, I just think you will argue til you are blue in the face and not do so.. so why should I try? I don't enjoy hitting my head against a brick wall, really. Sometimes, it is enough to know the truth yourself. It isn't necessary to convert others to your point of view. You are already convinced of what you are saying that it is correct. Why can't we politely disagree and move on? Pretty obviously, I have listened to rational arguments I consider convincing which disprove (to my mind) your view. Let's just disagree and move on. I don't think you are open to convincing.
Sara.
-- February 1, 2010 3:56 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
Fair enough. We can disagree and move on.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- February 1, 2010 5:58 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
All,
All,
The Iraqi Dinar will neither revalue nor revert to a previous rate; expect the physical currency to lop. Either Iraq will introduce smaller denominations or it will wait until it joins the GCC. Once inflation is under control for a period the current notes will not be needed. The Bremer Dinar is a transitory currency a stop gap measure between the old Saddam notes to a new currency without the three zeros.
Like the U.S. Iraq continues to print Dinars; according to the CBI's own website the money supply has continued to increase. Like the U.S. Iraq continues to monetize its debt and economy by this increase in money supply. Like the U.S. Iraq's money supply exceeds GDP this environment creates an imbalance. Like the U.S. Iraq continues to accumulate debt; I have mentioned several times their recent loan from the IMF for 7 trillion Dinars. Like the U.S. Iraq's currency is not tied to any tangible assets. Through current monetary and fiscal policy Iraq cannot tie the Dinar to its oil because of the excessive quantity in circulation. Regardless, of the amount of oil produced Iraq's monetary supply will continue to increase.
Many expect in the next 3 to 5 years a formal devaluation of the dollar by the Fed and since Iraq's Central Bank is following the same monetary and physical policy as it makes sense the Dinar follow the same course of action. Until these concepts are grasped you will continue to wait for an event that is not going to happen.
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- February 3, 2010 11:57 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Sighh.. you CAN'T leave it alone, can you, Rob?
You just HAVE TO try and rain on other people's parades.. fine.
Ok.
Nothing like a left brain arguing with a right brain, hey..?
So, Here goes:Rob N wrote:
".. the Iraqi Dinar like the USD does not have any tangible assets tied to it."
YET.
Speculate, Rob N.
What if it DID have tangible assets tied to it.
You say that would STILL not cause an upward valuation..
because there are too many Dinars out there.
Pretty much your entire argument relies on money supply dynamics.
However, if you look at how much things are worth based on rationality, where would the US dollar actually be?
It relies not on quantity issued, but on faith to remain at its current value.
Read these stats from an article I'll entitle,The Obama Fiscal Disaster Admitted by The Wall Street Journal
Obama's spending restraint religion arrives a year, and trillions of dollars, too late.
JANUARY 27, 2010Meet President Obama 2.0. Unlike the 2009 version, this 2010 update isn't the spender who has sent the federal deficit to levels unseen since World War II. This new fellow is a fiscal conservative.. as he delivers his State of the Union address.
Whether or not Americans choose to believe him, there's no denying the fiscal reality created by the rollout version of President Obama last year, as detailed in the Congressional Budget Office report released yesterday. For the second year in a row, fiscal 2010 will see a trillion-dollar deficit—an estimated $1.35 trillion, or 9.2% of GDP, which is down slightly from last year's post-World War II record of 9.9%.
Mr. Obama did inherit a recession, which is partly responsible for this ocean of red ink. The slow pace of economic recovery has contributed to a collapse in revenues, down to 14.8% of GDP in 2009 and an estimated 14.9% this year. That's well below the modern historical average of about 18.1%, and it is a reminder that economic growth is the most important contributor to smaller deficits. Had last year's "stimulus" worked half as well as the White House advertised, these deficits wouldn't be as large.
But as the nearby chart shows, Mr. Obama's major contribution to deficits has been a record spending spree. In 2007, before the recession, federal expenditures reached $2.73 trillion. By 2009 expenditures had climbed to $3.52 trillion. In 2009 alone, overall federal spending rose 18%, or $536 billion. Throw in a $65 billion reduction in debt service costs due to low interest rates, and the overall spending increase was 22%.
In one year.
CBO confirms that Democrats have taken federal spending to a new and higher plateau: 24.7% of GDP in 2009, 24.1% this year, and back to an estimated 24.3% in 2011. The modern historical average is about 20.5%, and less than that if you exclude the Reagan defense buildup of the 1980s that helped to win the Cold War and let Bill Clinton reduce defense spending to 3% of GDP in the 1990s.
This means that one of every four dollars produced by the sweat of American private labor is now taxed and redistributed by 535 men and women in Congress.
The slight deficit improvement for 2010 isn't due to any spending restraint. The feds will get a $218 billion windfall from reduced spending on TARP bailout cash, plus $27 billion in reduced deposit insurance outlays. All of that money and more is going right out the door again in $112 billion more in so far unspent stimulus, a 7% increase in nondefense discretionary spending, 6% more for Medicare and 11% more for Medicaid.
Compared to this gusher, Mr. Obama's touted spending freeze for some domestic agencies is the politics of gesture. It would apply to only 17% of the budget, and these programs have already had a 22% increase in their annual appropriations in the past two years, and another 25% increase including stimulus.
As for the deficit, CBO shows that over the first three years of the Obama Presidency, 2009-2011, the federal government will borrow an estimated $3.7 trillion. That is more than the entire accumulated national debt for the first 225 years of U.S. history. By 2019, the interest payments on this debt will be larger than the budget for education, roads and all other nondefense discretionary spending.
If this borrowing were financing defense investments or tax rate reductions to spur the U.S. economy, we wouldn't be worried. But most of this money is going to transfer payments to individuals, or subsidies to home buyers and inefficient businesses that do little for wealth creation.
As it always does, CBO forecasts that deficits will decline in the later years of its 10-year budget window. But this forecast depends on assumptions about Congress so fanciful that James Cameron couldn't make them up. CBO projects that all of the Bush tax cuts will expire in 2011—even those for the middle class—and that the Alternative Minimum Tax will hit more than 30 million mostly middle-class families over the next decade. Democrats say neither will happen.
CBO also assumes that Medicare will cut reimbursements to doctors by $250 billion, though Democrats have promised to stop such cuts in return for the American Medical Association's endorsement of their health bills.
If the middle-class tax cuts remain, the AMT doesn't soak the middle class and spending grows at its historic norm, then CBO concedes "the deficit in 2020 would be nearly the same, historically large, share of GDP that it is today and the debt held by the public would equal nearly 100% of GDP." Buongiorno, Italia.
Oh, and none of this includes a penny for ObamaCare.
The tragedy is that Mr. Obama's fiscal conversion is coming a year too late, assuming it is now real. If the President and his party really are serious, they can do more than promise a spending freeze after 2012. They can stop spending more now: Drop the health-care bill, cancel the unspent stimulus spending from last year, kill the $150 billion new stimulus that has already passed the House, and bar all repaid bailout cash from being re-spent. Everything else is marketing.
- Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A14
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703906204575027181656362948.htmlCBO concedes "the deficit in 2020 would be nearly the same, historically large, share of GDP that it is today and the debt held by the public would equal nearly 100% of GDP."
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF GDP.. the entire production of the USA!!
Yesterday, Glenn Beck in this segment (watch all of this segment, very interesting):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt6z-R_2SiY
At the mark 5:47 he states that it in 1929 the Debt to GDP was 16.3%.
He goes on to state that this year Debt to GDP will be 94% of GDP.. NINETY FOUR PERCENT!!
and in 2011 it will be 99% of GDP!!!So.. exactly where is the rationality you are making in that scenerio?
What I am arguing is.. you are expecting rational sense, and it isn't working here..
Sooo... Knowing this (above), what is keeping the US afloat?
I don't think the rational playing field you imagine exists.. that isn't the reality of this world.
It isn't how it works NOW.. nor will it ever be.
So your arguments won't matter in the end, either.There is NOTHING backing the US dollar. Not oil, not exports.. nothing. How rational is that?
And there are some game changing plans in the works.
A lot of history isn't sensible, logical and linear as you are saying.. wars and messy policies get in the way.
Kinda like since the last election..
Let's just wait.. it isn't over yet.
The RV is yet future.. and your "lop" has not happened, either.
That is why this is called a "speculative" investment.
Those with the keys are not speculators.. they are "in the know".. you aren't and neither am I.
But.. we do speculate. You along your path and me along mine.Sara.
-- February 3, 2010 1:54 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
We got to see how good Barack Hussein Obama has been with the economy.
Now we get to see how he does with national security.
Your thoughts?===
Intelligence Officials Warn Attempted Al Qaeda Attack Only Months Away
February 02, 2010
The terrorist organization is deploying operatives to the United States to carry out new attacks from inside the country, CIA Director Leon Panetta told CongressWASHINGTON -- Al Qaeda can be expected to attempt an attack on the United States in the next three to six months, senior U.S. intelligence officials told Congress Tuesday.
The terrorist organization is deploying operatives to the United States to carry out new attacks from inside the country, including "clean" recruits with a negligible trail of terrorist contacts, CIA Director Leon Panetta said. Al Qaeda is also inspiring homegrown extremists to trigger violence on their own, Panetta added.
Director of National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair described Hassan as homegrown extremist. He also said that Al Qaeda can be expected to continue and try to attack the United States until Osama bin Laden and his No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, are dead.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/02/intelligence-officials-warn-attempted-al-qaeda-attack-months-away/
-- February 3, 2010 2:03 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
And could that threat against the US possibly fit with this article from earlier this month?
===
Al-Qaida seeking tools for nuclear 9/11
Intel agents 'certain' terrorists will try for Pakistan's bombs
Posted: January 18, 2010LONDON – Agents for Britain's MI6 Secret Intelligence Service say they are "certain" al-Qaida is poised to try and grab some of the 80 nuclear weapons that Pakistan possesses, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.
The al-Qaida leadership – Osama bin Laden and Ayman a-Zawahri – are believed to have spent the winter months in Pakistan's Tribal Areas finalizing their plans for an attack.
It will spearhead al-Qaida's global network and its capability to carry out a wide range of terrorist onslaughts.
The MI6 analysis is based on what the agency calls "al-Qaida's zone of terrorism." It includes the Afghan Taliban, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan in East Turkistan and al-Shabaab in Somalia. In the Sahara region al-Qaida has reformed Islamic Magreb (AQIM) which has grown out of Algerian resistance movement.
But nothing poses more of a threat than al-Qaida's plan to steal Pakistan’s nuclear weapons.
MI6 agents in Pakistan say there is mounting evidence "the leadership is thinking of a nuclear 9/11 and are approaching it in increasingly professional ways."
Nuclear experts have told the Secret Intelligence Service that the biggest fear is of "an inside job."
One analyst said, "There are up to 12,000 people in Pakistan with some kind of role which brings them into nuclear facilities, whether as part of a team of scientists or working in security."
Professor Shaun Gregory, director of the Pakistan security research center at Bradford University in England, has tracked a number of attempted security breaches in the past four years at Pakistan's nuclear facilities.
Past attacks have included a suicide bomber striking Kamra where Pakistan Air Force F-16 jet aircraft are stationed with nuclear bombs. Another attack was against a nuclear weapons complex in Punjab where a nuclear warhead assembly plant is based.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=122398
Makes you wonder..
-- February 3, 2010 2:14 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Now, Rob N.. we are speculating on the Dinar.. you in your way, and me in mine.
And I have some theories about this coming nuclear attack on the USA,
one I believe is a point of view unique because I am working from a different perspective.
I am working like a person with forensic evidence after a crime.. with the data given AFTER the event.
Because I can "see" what happened in my mind and work from there.
Just like they do with a crime scene.. using the evidence to piece together clues.
It has allowed me to understand and piece together what I think happened.. or rather, will happen in the near future.
Like speculation on the Dinar.. perhaps I will be wrong and it won't happen as I predict.
I might have it wrong.
Maybe it will be a lop.. when I think it will be a RV.
But on the other hand.. it is worth a minute of exploring.. since it will effect all our lives, AND the Dinar.
It will change our world.
It will end a lot of people's worlds.So.. here is my view.. it will take a few posts and much prayer, but here goes:
First off, I saw an article a while back about the economy being INTENTIONALLY destroyed.
It postulated that if that was so then.. it wasn't Bush's fault, after all, was it?
And a poster asked.. if that was so.. why didn't everyone say it wasn't his fault?
And the author of the article asked why no one was at all concerned with who on earth stuck us without a boat in the middle of the ocean.
Here is that one, because it is relevant as to who is attacking the USA..===
The electronic run on banks nobody seemed to notice
By Mary Claire Kendall
01/15/10Sixteen months after the 11 a.m. simultaneous withdrawal of billions of dollars out of money market accounts in the aftermath of Lehman’s demise a few days earlier, no one seems to care about the dimensions of this event.
After all, this catastrophic event did not have quite the physicality of say an actual bank run.
There were no investors standing in line waiting to take their money out for Americans to see just who they were—from what country, wearing what kind of clothes, honest or squirrelly looking, working in tandem with each other? Just computer generated orders simultaneously withdrawing billions of dollars adding up to $550 billion within about an hour.
And, certainly, if it were an act of economic terrorism, which no one seems to have the imagination or cojones to raise, the visual is not there. No Boeing 737 ramming into the Twin Towers, bursting into flames, innocent victims burning alive jumping out the windows to their death, prior to the buildings’ collapse into rubble.
But, make no mistake, this electronic run on the banks of Sept. 18, 2008, was every bit as catastrophic, with numerous victims.
Sure, it could be pure coincidence that exactly at 11 a.m. a wave of concerned investors all decided it was time to electronically withdraw their funds thus creating this crescendo drawdown effect setting in motion a worldwide panic.
It could be coincidence. But, it’s doubtful.
The fact that the identities of those who simultaneously decided to withdraw their money at 11 a.m. on Sep. 18, precipitating this panic, were never released, does lead one to question whether or not something sinister was at work.
Is there no one else with even the vaguest curiosity to ask if it was a coincidence or not? And, to suggest maybe an investigation is in order to deliver that vaunted “transparency” that voters seemed to believe they would get after the 2008 elections.
If nothing sinister was at work, then why so much secrecy concerning the destination of this $550 billion in money withdrawn on Thursday, Sept. 18, and those responsible for redirecting these funds out of the U.S. money markets.
Surely the money didn’t go back into the American economy.
No, $550 billion was drained away from the American economy, the consequences of which we suffer to this day.
The exact contours of this event were described by Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pa.) on C-SPAN on Wednesday, Feb. 11, two days after the 200th anniversary of Abe Lincoln’s birth.
An enraged caller had just erupted over the ill-advised $700 billion bailout a few months earlier and Rep. Kanjorski felt pressed to reveal what Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke had told Congress behind closed doors, which so shocked them into supporting this mind-bogglingly huge bailout.
“On Thursday [Sept. 18, 2008] at about 11 o’clock in the morning,” Kanjorski began, “the Federal Reserve noticed the tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to the tune of $550 billion dollars being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two. The Treasury opened up its window to help. It pumped $105 billion in the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide.”
At that point, officials realized, Kanjorski relates, “We were having an electronic run on the banks.”
In response, Kanjorski continued, “They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn’t be further panic out there and that’s what actually happened.”
And, if nothing had been done, Kanjorski revealed, “their estimation was that by two o’clock that afternoon, five and 1/2 trillion dollars would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed (which would have meant) … the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it.”
Kanjorski concluded, “Someone threw us in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean without a life raft. And, we’re trying to determine which is the closest shore, and whether there’s any chance in the world to swim that far. We don’t know.”
But why is no one in the least bit curious to know who that “someone” is who “threw us in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean without a life raft”—the consequences of which have so damaged our economy’s job-creating engine?
This writer, for one, would like to know.
Mary Claire Kendall is a Washington-based journalist and screenwriter, working with Providence Productions in LA.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/01/15/the-electronic-run-on-banks-nobody-seemed-to-notice/
Sooo.. SOMEONE did this INTENTIONALLY to the USA.
Who was it?
Maybe this could be a clue.. a man who told President Bush that "war has started".. on August 8, 2008, barely ONE MONTH before this event of an electronic run on the banks. He told President Bush this during the Bejing Games:===
Paulson Says Russia Urged China to Dump Fannie, Freddie Bonds
By Michael McKee and Alex Nicholson
Jan 29 2010Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Russia urged China to dump its Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds in 2008 in a bid to force a bailout of the largest U.S. mortgage-finance companies, former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said.
Paulson learned of the “disruptive scheme” while attending the Beijing Summer Olympics, according to his memoir, “On The Brink.”
The Russians made a “top-level approach” to the Chinese “that together they might sell big chunks of their GSE holdings to force the U.S. to use its emergency authorities to prop up these companies,” Paulson said, referring to the acronym for government sponsored entities. The Chinese declined, he said.
Russia’s five-day war with U.S. ally Georgia started on Aug. 8, the same day as the opening ceremonies of the Beijing Games. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told U.S. President George W. Bush during those ceremonies that “war has started,” according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s spokesman.
“The report was deeply troubling -- heavy selling could create a sudden loss of confidence in the GSEs and shake the capital markets,” Paulson wrote. “I waited till I was back home and in a secure environment to inform the president.”
Russia never approached China about dumping U.S. bonds, Peskov said today. “This is not the case,” he said by phone.
Russia sold all of its Fannie and Freddie debt in 2008, after holding $65.6 billion of the notes at the start of that year, according to central bank data. Fannie and Freddie were seized by regulators on Sept. 6, 2008, amid the worst U.S. housing slump since the Great Depression.
Paulson said he was surprised not to have been asked about the Fannie and Freddie bonds during a trip to Moscow in June. “I was soon to learn, though, that ,” he said of his meeting with Dmitry Medvedev, who succeeded Putin in the Kremlin the previous month.
Putin kept Paulson waiting before their meeting at the government’s headquarters and made the conversation “fun” by being “direct and a bit combative,” Paulson said. “He never took offense and we could spar back and forth,” he said.
Paulson’s book is scheduled to be released Feb. 1, though Bloomberg News bought a copy at a New York bookstore.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=afbSjYv3v814
Poster Neo on gatewaypundit wrote:
Did the Russians eventually trigger the near financial collapse ?
Doesn this mean it wasn’t Bush’s fault ?
This does show that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have foreign policy/national security elements.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/01/krauthammer-slams-obama-for-lack-of-terrorism-talk-in-sotu-address/So why wouldn't anyone SAY anything, explain it was an electronic attack??
For the same reason that Glenn Beck brought out in his program.. China is America's financial boss.
See his discussion at the 1:55 mark of that same program I mentioned from yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt6z-R_2SiYSo the US was scared to say anything.. even though they know who did it.
It was an attack.. by China and Russia, together.
Getting a big picture here?Sara.
-- February 3, 2010 4:03 PM ∞
Sara wrote:
Coincidentally...??
And wasn't it coincidental that after a joint attack by Russia and China resulting in a financial crisis..
the US elected Barack Hussein Obama and has moved towards the left.. toward socialism?
Moving toward those very same positions that Communist Russia and Communist China hold..
Isn't that just.. so coincidental?Sara.
-- February 3, 2010 4:09 PM ∞
Roger from Iraq wrote:
Hi all,
As everyone and his brother on this blogsite knows, I am not much for rumors, but found them enjoying.
There has always been a low bubbling rumor pool here in the camps, but not more than it could be easily dissmissed.
Lately though, rumors on the camps have started to take on an epedemic, and they seems to have reach a high point of fever.
There are guys (and girls) here starting to get in on a ...buy a million Dinars per paycheck....diet.
I have not been able to pinpoint any real source of rumors going on lately, and when askin around where they have gotten the info, it seems always to be the scenario that ...-"a guy that I talked with had spoken with" ...and so on.
This latest Dinar craze that I have experienced here on the bases, , well I have a possible explanation to it.
The time is up for most people here in Iraq, and bases are closing out one by one, people are being shuffled around like cattle from base to base, and the living conditions have been deteriorating as more and more services are terminated.
We had a lot of drivers ( about 85 of them) coming in from TQ when that base closed, and the drivers came from their own hootch , dinner facility cloeby, entertainment centers close by and so on, straight to beds that was lined up in an old warehouse.
Same with me, I moved from Taji over to Liberty, and went from my own room, to living in tents with a lot of other people, that snores.
The writing is on the wall, there are not too many paychecks left to collect here, and perhaps people start to look at what will "bail them out".
On the other hand, if Iraq wanted to do something with it's currency this would not be a bad time to do it.
I can see that we have some dissatisfied former investors here, that are trying to convince the rest of us that this is a train to hell, it is illusional, dreamlike and probably a pipedream.
What exactly have I done wrong then?
I give all the nyumbers to crunch for anyone that cares.
My total investment is in US Dollars 26500, or 40 million Dinars, at the time of the purchase.
I have 10 millions in a savingsaccount in Iraq, that currently gives 7% (where in the US will you get 7% anywhere today)
I put 30 Millions in stocks.
The stock value have about trippled. Last two months I have had about 10 e-mails from my bank.
telling me that I have recieved dividents from this or that company, and the dividentws are astonishing, between 10 and 47%.
And that is on top of the stock value increase.
Usually I get it in stocks, but also in cash value, that is directed straight into my savings account.
(and I get 7%interest on that too, of course)
Then the value of the Dinar has gone up about 33-35% (something like that) since I bought it.
Add that to the total value and you can see some interesting numbers.
US value ( I must admit I have not done a close caluclation yet) of my Dinar investment is in the neighborhood of 65-70000 US Dollars
Ok, Starting from 26.500 and ending up with 65-70000 bucks and the darn currency have not even revalued yet.
What exactly did I do wrong.
Mayber I should have bought 10 million Dinars, sold it back and then whine about it.
-- February 4, 2010 9:48 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Sara,
Me agreeing to disagree and move on does not mean I will not post my perspective. You are right this economy and the U.S. dollar are intentionally being debased It is not for foreign entity destroying our economy. If it were not for China and Japan buying U.S. treasuries economic collapse would have already occured.
The responsible parties for this debasement is Allen Greenspan, George W. Bush, Ben Bernanke, and now Obama. These gentlemen all have the same agenda; the destruction of the U.S. economy. These men have placed too much currency in circulation and creating a national debt of 21 trillion dollars by 2011. These men have stopped free markets from operating and instead have manipulated the market to the point of a currency crisis.
Concerning the Central Bank of Iraq, it continues to follow the same monetary and fiscal policy of its U.S. occupiers. For Iraq to truly prosper will require a coup by the people. Al-Malaki and Barzani are traitors and will be tried if the people are successful in an overthrow of the U.S. regime as Iran did in the 1970s. Though only a coup can Iraq rid themselves of the occupiers, Bremer Dinar, and a Rothschild controlled Central Bank. I believe if a possible nuclear attack occurs the people responsible are those currently occuping the executive branch and oour own industrial military complex. A crisis of this magnitude will justify the implementation of martial law carried out by NORTHCOM. An event like this will wipe away what little freedom we have left.
-- February 4, 2010 10:35 AM ∞
Sara wrote:
Roger - I like your midas touch. :)
I am very glad to hear things are winding down there -
though of course, it would be nicer if folks had a booming economy to come back to.
As for RV, the Iraqis can do that anytime they wish.
Certainly, pegging their currency to assets is also something they are capable of doing.
It would give them short term prosperity.. which may be useful in the near future..
and I believe that they may be pursuaded it is a good time for them to do so, soon.
Stay safe.. you are always in my prayers.Rob N - Depends on what you consider a "foreign entity".. I suppose. Certainly, there are elements set against the US and her defense from within and without (though we may disagree on specifics). I suppose the founders put that in the pledge about defending America from "all enemies foreign and domestic" for a reason. I was just pointing out some of the enemy elements which are external, and have indicated that they are going to WAR with the United States, as in August 2008, quote, "Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told U.S. President George W. Bush during those ceremonies that “war has started,”".. (end quote). An interesting statement in light of what has happened since.. (beginning with.. an economic "war?"). This, along with the fact that Russia was urging China to dump all Fannie and Freddie - and the disclosure that Russia, quote, "sold all of its Fannie and Freddie debt in 2008".. which makes you wonder WHEN, of course. During the Sept. 18, 2008 electronic "run on the banks".. perhaps?
I have had a computer hard drive failure, with what looks like a virus wiping out my bios. After trying to get to the operating system, it won't work, and I won't go into the sordid details of the various things I have tried.. including attempting to load a flash from dos/startup, etc. Must go spend time fixing, and if not, researching what to buy to replace it.. so no posts for a while from me, I should suppose.
Perhaps it is just as well. If the Feb 11th date set by Iran to teach the "global arrogance" is the fruition of what I saw, my disclosure would not prevent it, and I am certain this Administration doesn't listen to anyone who isn't lockstep with them, anyway.. even if it would preserve their own lives. Because what I saw took out this Administration.. ALL of corrupt Washington (with some collateral damage).. and they would not have time to get underground in the scenerio I saw. At least three nuclear bombs exploded within seconds of one another in Washington in what I saw (it may have been more, the cloud just got bigger after that, not distinct explosions anymore). As I said.. it makes sense.. how this could happen with no warning as I witnessed.. I can see how it would work now - after carefully piecing together the facts disclosed by sources in the news with the evidence of what I saw.. but now I have other things I am forced to do.
Perhaps it is just as well because, after all.. if the enemy hasn't thought of it, I wouldn't want to unintentionally be putting it up on the internet, telling them how to do it successfully and thus precipitating that very event. That said, I do think the enemy has thought this through already, and are about to let it go.. very soon. As that last article I posted states, "Intelligence Officials Warn Attempted Al Qaeda Attack Only Months Away" saying, "The terrorist organization is deploying operatives to the United States to carry out new attacks from inside the country, CIA Director Leon Panetta told Congress"... An attack on the USA "in a few months time".. or, perhaps sooner?
Sara.
-- February 4, 2010 1:46 PM ∞
Confuzed wrote:
Sara, keep talking to Rob N. I've read his posts twice. IMHO, they don't make any sense. Rob must be going through a spiritual crisis of some sort. My guess is, that's why he had his "paradigm shift". Romans 8:28
-- February 4, 2010 3:32 PM ∞
Steve wrote:
My ISX link is back on and they have a nice new slick site-- February 4, 2010 11:03 PM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
All,
A lop and new currency is coming. I have enclosed this article posted on another forum.
Monetary policy to delete the zeros of the Iraqi currency
Iraqi Central Bank is working on a strategy to delete the zeroes of the Iraqi currency in and out of their face value while maintaining the values of cash and purchasing power.
Central Bank of Iraq adviser to the appearance of Mohammed Salih said that this year will witness the launch of this strategy, stressing that the bank has completed 50% of the preparations that are working on since 2005.
Salih said the strategy was based on the principle of gradual substitution of the Iraqi currency with another is lower than in the nominal value, and pointed out that the positives of this strategy is that it will be less expensive and easier to trade.
For his part, sees Dr. Hilal Al-Tahan, that the application of such a strategy will not cause economic turmoil, or damage to the local market at the present time, while the economic analyst is willing to find satisfaction بليبل that the timing of the launch of this strategy is not appropriate, noting that the country's economy must be in a position of strength before the application of such changes.
[url="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http://www.iraqhurr.org/content/article/1946613.html&rurl=translate.google.com[/url"]
http://translate.google.com/translat...ate.google.com
Thanks,
Rob N.
-- February 5, 2010 9:45 AM ∞
Rob N. wrote:
Confuzed,
I am not sure how my posts can not make sense. Iraq is following our Fed. According to the CBI website the supply of currency continues to increase year over year. As oil production increases their currency supply will also increase. Like the U.S. Iraq is attempting to monetize its debt by printing more currency. Currency supplies exceed current GDP. Any economist will tell you this creates an imbalance in the economy.
Like the U.S. Iraq faces a currency crisis because it is not tied to any tangible asset. For example, Canada ties their currency to commodities limiting the amount of money supply. Good faith in the USD does not work anylonger. The U.S. has been placed on credit watch and China has decreased the amount of junk U.S. treasuries it buys. Once the dollar collapses the Iraqi Dinar will also crash.
There is a remedy for the Dinar and that is to lop the inflationary zeros off of its currency making a 25000 note into a 25 dinar note; this will lessen the amount of currency in circulation. Limiting and reducing money supply after the lop should allow them to tie the dinar to a tangible asset like oil.
I posted an article from another forum about the plan to lop the currency; this has been caught in the spam filter hopefully it will be released soon