Truck and Barter: Iraqi Dinar Discussion: July 13, 2006

Iraqi Dinar Discussion: July 13, 2006 - September 8, 2006

By Kevin

AS OF 9/8/2006, THIS POST IS CLOSED TO NEW COMMENTS. A new post has been created: Here's a link to the current active post.

Comments are back online after nearly a week of being turned off.

Here are all the posts in sequence:

1) June 16, 2004 - June 27, 2004
2) June 27, 2004 - November 6, 2004
3) November 6, 2004 - April 11, 2005
4) April 11, 2005 - June 22, 2005
5) June 22, 2005 - July 22, 2005
6) July 22, 2005 - April 30, 2006
7) April 30, 2006 - July 13, 2006
8) July 13, 2006 - September 8, 2006
9) September 8, 2006 - ...

If you guys & gals encounter any problems, email me at kevin-at-truckandbarter.com.
Your email has been very helpful in the administration of this site. Thanks for your patronage.

-- July 13, 2006 5:46 AM | Permalink

Comments

Bob wrote:

Hmmmmmm.....new notepad..alrighty then....what is the latest, have been away for a bit.

-- July 13, 2006 9:16 AM ∞

C1Jim wrote:

Well, we were all going to be rich. Then we weren't. Now, we might be, but we will wait in see.

-- July 13, 2006 9:29 AM ∞

Bob wrote:

Yes..I remember that.....any significant news lately?

-- July 13, 2006 9:36 AM ∞

Bob wrote:

We might be? I see where the zero lopping theory has cooled off a bit? Personally, I dont think that will happen; we wont become the millionaires that we thought but I cant see what good that would do for their economy either. Any thoughts?

-- July 13, 2006 9:40 AM ∞

TAYLOR wrote:

Both Russia and Afghanistan are countries who have zero lopped their currency.
Lets look at their situations in relation to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation and
rumors about Iraq doing a zero lop on their currency:

Afghanistan had 4 types of currency in circulation as a result of a civil war. It was
unknown how much of each was in circulation. For the people and the
government, this was a very difficult situation. As a result, the currency kept
losing it's value. They needed something both credible and efficient to use as
currency. You did not want people carrying around bags of money since
everything is cash based. Their zero lop happened at the same time as they
printed new currency to replace the confusing mix they had before. This ensured
everyone had the same currency, there was a known amount in circulation, and
people could buy and sell things with few notes. It has little in common to the
Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop. Iraq has already
printed and established a single national currency, with secure features
and knows exactly how much is in circulation. The Dinar denominations are
already designed to carry high or low values without carrying around sacks of
money. It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when
they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals.

Russia performed zero lopping to their currency in 1998. They did this in
response to hyperinflation and to restore confidence in their currencies structure
and value. Iraq has roughly only 20% inflation. Russia also had denominations
that went too high - they had denominations of 5k, 10k, 50k, 100k, and 500k -
which were replaced with denominations of 5, 10, 50, 100 , and 500. In
comparison, Iraq's highest denomination is the 25k and has denominations all the
way down to 25 Dinar. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills,
they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make
sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or
zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by
increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their
poor in a positive way.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/zero_lop_analysis.html

This situation is focing me to take up smoking ---*~~

-- July 13, 2006 10:22 AM ∞

TAYLOR wrote:

also... check this out..

http://www.iraqiwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Zero_lopping_argument

-- July 13, 2006 10:23 AM ∞

Outlaw wrote:

Lance,

Thank's for that information... Great post indeed!

Outlaw

-- July 13, 2006 10:49 AM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S.-Iraqi chamber of commerce and industry to organize investment forum in Amman

Amman, July 12 (Petra) The U.S.- Iraqi Chamber of Commerce and Industry intend to organize an Iraqi investment forum in Amman next month, Chairman of the chamber Fares al-Mesleh disclosed Wednesday.

He said the forum aimed to explain Iraq's future investment policy including the new market mechanism that will be adopted by the Iraqi government in light of the new investment law approved recently by the Iraqi parliament.

http://www.petra.gov.jo/nepras/2006/Jul/12/6000.htm

The phrase "in light of the new investment law approved recently by the Iraqi parliament" has me wondering if the FI laws are indeed passed now? I feel those laws being passed is a HUGE step forward for Iraq, so it isn't a small point of interest..

Sara.

-- July 13, 2006 11:55 AM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Hey, can we do this, too? :)

Sara.

===

Iraqi leader warns biased media outlets

BAGHDAD, 13 July 2006 (Associated Press) -- Iraq's prime minister warned television stations Wednesday against broadcasting reports that incite violence, saying he will not hesitate to shut them down.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/9305

-- July 13, 2006 12:07 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

Lance....

Good info. in your posting....thanks.

I have a feeling the US is holding a lot of those I.O.U.'s they can cash in at a later date.

-- July 13, 2006 12:37 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

Sara....

I read the Kurds have passed their F.I. laws but I thought the central government was a few weeks away....maybe they're moving faster than we think...I hope!

Also....yes!! It would be nice to shut CNN down for a few years!

-- July 13, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

They don't have to shut the MSM down, Okie.. just make sure they don't publish stuff like the r.ape trial going on which incited the terrorists to kill three US servicemen (according to the terrorists). The fact that the accused has entered a plea of not guilty barely made a dent in the news in comparison to their playing up the man's guilt... The courts probably cannot get an unbiased jury after this coverage. If that is true of a jury, how much more so of the terrorists? So much for supporting the troops, and the supposed value in America of "innocent UNTIL proven guilty"..

Sara.

-- July 13, 2006 1:13 PM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraqi PM Al-Maliki will visit Whitehouse July 25

Iraqi Prime Minister to Visit White House
Thursday July 13, 2006 1:31 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush snuck over to Baghdad to meet him last month. Now he plans to welcome Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to the White House for the first time.

Al-Maliki will visit July 25, the White House announced Thursday as Bush visited Germany.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-5948603,00.html

-- July 13, 2006 1:49 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

repatriation of capital.....I sure do like the sound of that!!!!

Iraq's former Minister of Planning offers suggestions for new foreign investment law

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 July 2006 (PortAl Iraq)
Iraq's former Minister of Planning suggested in an article that the new foreign investment law should offer credible guarantees to investors related to the repatriation of capital, as well as substantial tax exemptions.

The former minister also strongly advocated the creation of an agency to promote foreign investments in Iraq.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-13-07-2006&article=9314

-- July 13, 2006 2:17 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Hi Lance.

I appreciate your input and info. If you are copying info directly from another site, could you please make that clear, E.g. putting the text in quotes or saying the folling link says... as it appeared what you were writing was your own thoughts and opinions.

I note also that the arguement of not zero lopping the Dinar was a summary from the 'WIKI' site, where there are comments after it dated 2004. I thought this was relevant information.

To all, I ask again any opinion / views on what us cash holders would / should do in the event of a reissue of dinars prior to the dinar being released on the Foreign Exchange. I'm not saying that WILL happen, just my own view is that it is a strong possibility that I for one want to be prepared for.
This is based on the news that Iraqi Financial Minister has proposed the zero lop and to my mind an exchange of currency would be inevitable.

-- July 13, 2006 3:04 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

I found a list of ID/USD exchange rates posted on the ICB website: Http://www.cbiraq.org/Binder4.pdf
This is a big document. This page I am refering to is Page 17 of 24, Table 10.

The rates are listed as below:

Exchange rate of Iraq Dinar per US Dollar:

ID/US$ Period

10 1991
21 1992
74 1993
458 1994
1674 1995
1170 1996
1471 1997
1620 1998
1972 1999
1930 2000
1929 2001
1957 2002
- 2003
2219 Jan
2354 Feb
2541 Mar
3500 Apr
1443 May
1459 Jun

I have heard people quote pre-war values of dinars being $3US+ Where exactly does this come from?
This is history, as recorded by the Iraq Central Bank. The exchange rate given at best was 10 ID to $1US or 10c a piece. That was way back in 1991.

Since 1995, the exchange rate has been in the same ball-park as it is now, with the exception of the blip in 2003, during the invasion, where the dinar still only fell to around half of its current value.

If we are all expecting, or rather hoping the value of the dinar will rebound to its pre-war levels, I have news... its already worth more than it has been since 1997!

Please disprove me. I have invested in this venture too. From where I am sitting, I am still optimistic that the dinar will steadily climb, once major reconstruction and international trade is established, but as for a huge windfall... seems to me now that there was never one to be made.

-- July 13, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Zero Lop or Zero Lopping the Dinar Analysis
13/07/2006

Both Russia and Afghanistan are countries who have zero lopped their currency.

It has little in common to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop. Iraq has already printed and established a single national currency, with secure features and knows exactly how much is in circulation. The Dinar denominations are already designed to carry high or low values without carrying around sacks of money. It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals.

If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way.

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677

-- July 13, 2006 8:11 PM ∞

Forest wrote:

Repost from the NID forum:

A LOT OF PEOPLE TEND TO THINK THAT THE DINAR WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME. THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A “TRANSITIONAL CURRENCY”. PEOPLE SAY “WELL THEY NEED TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS SO THAT IT WILL BE CREDIBLE AND FORIEGN INSTITUTIONS WILL WANT TO BUSINESS WITH THEM” OR “IT WOULD COST TOO MUCH TO INTRODUCE NEW NOTES” AND SO ON…. I CALL THIS “ DINAR DENIAL”.
TO VENTURE DEEPER INTO WHAT EXACTLY I’M TALKING ABOUT LET US REWINDE BACK TO JULY 7, 2003. WHERE BREMER FORESHADOWED WHAT WILL COME OF THE CURRENCY….BREMER ANNOUNCES IRAQ'S 2003 NATIONAL
BUDGET, CURRENCY CHANGES
Date: July 7, 2003
The administrator for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, Paul Bremer, outlined in an address to the Iraqi people July 7 the key spending priorities for the Iraqi national budget over the next six months. These include commitments to improve the water, electrical, public health and telecommunications systems.
"For the first time in 12 years, all of Iraq will again use one set of banknotes," he said, signaling greater economic efficiencies.
Following are the complete text of Ambassador Bremer's July 7 announcements related to the Iraqi economy, answers to frequently asked questions about the new Iraqi currency, and a fact sheet:
Mesaa al khair [Good evening].
I am Paul Bremer, Administrator for the Coalition Provisional Authority.
My number one priority remains, as always, security: providing the security which Iraq needs in order to rebuild. Those who reject progress in Iraq know that they are losing. They are now targeting you and the basic services like water and electricity which you need. If you have information about these renegades, you should tell a coalition military or civilian person. We have already hit them hard. And we will defeat them.
Our second priority is to get the economy going again so that we can create jobs for you. Here , I have a couple of important announcements on the economy.
We have not designed a new currency for Iraq. Only a sovereign Iraqi government could take that decision. So we have taken the designs from the former national dinar (the "Swiss" dinar). But the new notes will be impossible to confuse with the "Swiss" dinar, as both the colors and the denominations will be different. Let me show you an example [show slide]. The new dinars will be printed in a full range of denominations: in 50s; 250s; 1,000s; 5,000s; 10,000s; and 25,000s. They will be higher quality and last longer. They will be very hard to forge, and thus be notes in which all Iraqis can be confident.

Together, these two new developments underline that the coalition, working closely with Iraqis at all levels, is determined to improve the economy of this country, and the lives of all its citizens.
Shakran [Thank you].
On July 7, 2003, the Coalition Provisional Authority released the following responses to frequently asked questions regarding the transition to a new Iraqi banknote:
THE NEW IRAQI BANKNOTES -- QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
What's happening?
New Iraqi banknotes will be introduced on October 15. The normal Iraqi dinars ("print dinars") in circulation in most of Iraq, and the former national dinars ("Swiss dinars") in circulation in parts of Northern Iraq, will be exchanged for this "new Iraqi Dinar".
When is this happening?
The new notes will be ready on October 15.
What happens between now and then?
Nothing. You should continue to use existing banknotes. They continue to have the same value and the same validity. From October 15 until the exchange period ends on January 15, you can use either the current or the new banknotes.
Should I change all my money now into another currency?
No. Your normal Iraqi ("print") dinars will be exchanged directly into new Iraqi dinars at a rate of one to one. Former national ("Swiss") dinars in use in parts of Northern Iraq will be exchanged at a rate of 150 new dinars to one "Swiss" dinar. We are fixing these rates now so that you need not worry.
Where will I have to go to change my money?
To designated exchange points, which will include the branches of the Rafidain and Rasheed banks.
Will I have to change my money immediately after the exchange begins?
No. There will be three months to make the exchange. Throughout the exchange period, both normal ("print") dinars, former national ("Swiss") dinars, and new dinars will be accepted as legal tender.
Won't the value of Iraqi dinars drop between now and October 15, as measured against, say, the dollar?
There is no reason for this to happen. This will not be a new currency, but simply new banknotes.
How will I know when the new notes are ready?
They will be ready on October 15. Announcements will be made in a similar way to this announcement, i.e. by radio, television, newspaper, poster and leaflet.
You're already running out of Iraqi dinars. Won't there be a mad rush to get the new ones?
No. There will be no shortage of the new dinars. And they will be available in many more denominations than are in circulation now.
Why don't you just print more normal Iraqi ("print") dinars?
Because their quality is poor, they don't last. They are also hard to use because of the lack of different denominations. And it's time that the new unified Iraq had one set of banknotes, and notes without the head of Saddam Hussein.
Can I keep dollars if I want to?
Absolutely. In the new free Iraq, you can hold whatever currency you want. But the new dinar will be the official banknotes for the whole of Iraq, from Dohuk to Basra.
Is the coalition trying to take over the Iraqi economy?
Absolutely not. That is why we are introducing new banknotes, based on the original Iraqi dinar design.
Do I really need to change my notes? Won't the new Iraqi government change the design again anyway?
Yes, you should change all your current dinars when the time comes. After the changeover period, the normal Iraqi ("print") dinars, and former national ("Swiss") dinars will no longer be valid. Once there have been national elections, and there is a new Iraqi Government, the new Government may introduce new notes, or a new currency. But this will be further down the line.
Do I need to withdraw all my money from the bank?
No, money held in the banks will be automatically converted for you.
Below is a fact sheet about the new Iraqi dinar that will replace aging Iraqi banknotes beginning October 2003:
FACT SHEET ABOUT NEW IRAQI BANKNOTES
In close consultation with financial experts from Iraq and the international community, a new series of Iraqi banknotes will be introduced from 15 October. These new notes will address problems like the shortage of 250-dinar notes and the poor quality of the notes in circulation.
Some key facts about these banknotes:
The new notes will unify the currency across all of Iraq. Once the exchange of notes has been completed, these notes will be the official banknotes for the entire country.
The official conversion rates will be as follows:
The new banknotes will be available from 15 October 2003.
Official exchange locations will be announced before 15 October. These will include branches of the Rasheed and Rafidain banks.
Exchange will be possible over a three-month period, from 15 October to 15 January. There is no need for people to exchange their notes as soon as the exchange begins.
People who now hold money in bank accounts will not need to withdraw this money to exchange. All bank accounts will be automatically converted to new notes at the official rate.
The new banknotes will look very similar to the former national ("Swiss") dinar notes that were used throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and are still used in some Northern areas.
-- The new banknotes will have a number of advantages over normal Iraqi ("print") dinars:
-- They will be much better protected against counterfeiting.
-- They will be much more durable and suffer less "wear and tear."
-- They will have many more denominations, so they will be much more convenient for people to use.
The new currency will be fully convertible into other, non-Iraqi currencies -- including the dollar -- at the prevailing market rate.
NOW THEN AFTER READING ALL THIS WHAT DID YOU PICK UP ON? I PICKED UP ON…
“Once there have been national elections, and there is a new Iraqi Government, the new Government may introduce new notes, or a new currency. But this will be further down the line.”
THIS COULD HAPPEN AFTER JANUARY ELECTIONS OR AFTER THE NEXT. ANYONE WHO KNOWS VALUATION OF CURRENCY KNOWS THAT IF THE DINAR WERE TO GAIN VALUE THEY WOULD HAVE TO INTRODUCE LOWER DEMONIATIONS, AS WE HAVE SEEN HERE LATELY.

IF THIS CHANGE OCCURES IN IRAQ AS IT DID LAST TIME THEN YOU WILL BE STUCK WITH WALL PAPER. THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM I SEEN EARLY ON… BANK ACCOUNTS AS WE SEE HERE…
“Do I need to withdraw all my money from the bank?
No, money held in the banks will be automatically converted for you.”
SO A BANK ACCOUNT IS A HEDGE. HARD CURRENCY GIVES THE SENSE OF SECUREITY ONLY IN THE FACT THAT IT IS TANGIBLE… NOTHING MORE.
THERE IS ALSO A BELIEF THAT BREMER SAID THAT IT WOULD BE RELEASED ON THE WORLD MARKET, THAT’S A PHALACY WHAT BREMER SAID WAS “The new currency will be fully convertible into other, non-Iraqi currencies -- including the dollar -- at the prevailing market rate.” THIS COULD MEAN JUST IN IRAQ AS WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE CBI CURRENTLY HOLDS OTHER CURRENCY RESERVES SUCH AS DOLLAR, YEN, AND SO ON.
SO THE “PUT IT IN A SHOE BOX AND FORGET ABOUT IT” THEORY COULD NEVER BE MORE WRONG. THE INFLATIONAY NOTES THAT YOU ARE LEFT WITH HAVE BEEN ALREADY PAIED FOR BY SOMEONE ELSE AND IRAQ RECEIVED THE MONEY FOR IT, MAYBE NOT AS MUCH AS YOU PAIED, BUT DEFINATLY A GOOD CHUNK.
NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THE NOTES OR THE CURRENCY WILL CHANGE FOR SURE, BUT THIS DOCUMENT DOES PROVIDE A LITTLE INFO.

Comment by Forest Gump at March 13, 2005 07:09 AM | Permalink
TOO THE WRITER KNOWN AS GUMP!

-- July 13, 2006 9:22 PM ∞

Outlaw wrote:

Nelly B,

I have been looking at your recent post about the value of the Dinar. I agree that when we invaded the dinar wasn't worth $.31/1 ID.

I do believe that the devaluation of the Dinar from 1991 to 2002 was because of the UN sanctions put in place. Every year that they were in place, it brought the Dinar lower and lower until we invaded and it crashed.

As far as being able to trade our ID for a possible new currency... your guess would be as good as anyone, as what will take place. A possible trip to the Middle East may be in all of our futures!

Outlaw

-- July 13, 2006 9:42 PM ∞

TAYLOR wrote:

For those of you who are still in the buying market for dinars; I used to use safedinar.com for my buying. Their prices have become a little high lately. Occasionally I would buy a few off Ebay in low priced auctions. I recently came across 1 seller from Jordan who has become a pretty reliable seller for low denomination bills 250's, 500) at very low prices. His name is Eyad.. His auction ID is randaghaith. I felt a little suspicious at first sending bank money orders to Jordan, but my orders have come in fast with no hang ups. I was burned a couple of times on ebay by sellers "persian_mart" (who never sent the product after payment) and another unnamed ebayer who decided to send out Saddam dinars to see if I would notice. So.. if you're new to the game or looking for reliabilty try this.. safedinar.com is always good too, but watch you prices.

Funny story though.. I wanted to buy 2 million dinars in 250 denominations. When I looked up the shipping I was a little suprised at how high it would be. I almost fogot the physical size of 8000 dinar notes. It would take ruffly 8 fedx boxes to send something that size. Perhaps I'll stick to 25000 denominations. :) Good luck on your buying. Let me know if anyone else has cheap reliable sellers.

-- July 13, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Hi been gone with the wind, new pad, cool, have been reading back a bit, and concluded that I can take another weeks vacation.

Were back in speculation, and wait.

Forest, that was a darn good post you wrote, but I must say, it is a very good and factual article from very very long time back.

Time have a tendency to showel things around.

If a dignitary in a high position say -"Absolutely not"
or -" Definitely yes". He might even say the famous -"read my lips" , but when faced with reality a couple of years down the road, he might not even be in charge or in a positon to decide for or against his deep wishes.

Since that article, the Iraqis have themselves taken over the rudder, and even though economical and financial principles stay the same, the decision to change or let things stay the same, the yes or no sayers are not our guys in black suits, and GI's covering the entrances.

Time has moved on.

We have different circumstances, and a complete different world counting only a few years back.

I'm having some thoughts on another subject here.

It might not be a socially acceptable idea that we are doing the right thing with regards to terrorism, but when faced with few options the only workable concept can never be a socially acceptable thing.

Let me take you to the annals of history to get show my point.

In the beginning of WW2, Brittain was under heavy attack from Germany, it's Luftwaffe and the U-boats was wreaking havoc and Brittain was close to it's knees.

Especially important was to get air superiority if an invasion of the Brittish island could be accomplished.

The Germans was right on target, attacking Brittish airfields, bombing anything that had to do with Brittish airpower.

It came to a point where Brittains airpower was down to only a few airplanes, and a handful of very very tired pilots.

In that moment of crisis, Churchill, knowing Hitlers mind, ordered nightbombing of Berlin.

Up to this point of the war, civilian bombing had taken place, but was frown upon.

Hitler got one of his fits, and ordered luftwaffe to start bombing London.

The Brits, got it's needed brake, and could now work on building up its airforce, while the Luftwaffe was bombing London.

Winston Churchil outsmarted Hitler, but got London bombed, with terrible causalties, but the Brittish island was saved.

Until his death, Winston C. never discussed this issue. He didnt even mentioned in his memoirs.

Now, to the point, would it have been socially acceptable for Winston Churchil to stand up during the London blitz, and bragged about how he saved England?

The fact is, by doing exactly what he did, he DID save England.

When it comes to terrorism, I must say, the plan right now, exactly as it is done, is a hell of a smart and functioning plan.

I keep reading each day how in Afghanistan, they get 35 of the terrorists, next day another 23, next day 45 and so on, they even sued for peace a couple of weeks back, but got none.

The special forces, operating there, I dont care if anyone calls them heroes or murder inc. they take care of business.

Iraq insurgency have fallen, internal ethnic warfare has been on the rise, but you have to look closely and realize that that is two different things.

The Iraq insurgency, have been bleeding and bleeding and bleeding. Let them bleed.

It might not be a socially acceptable idea, but it's a darn good plan.

The closer to the heart (Iran)things are gettng the more desperate those guys are getting, they know their days are numbered, and like a true psychotic, wants to take as many as possible with them when they go, so they're going nuclear.

The only way to deal with this is straight head on, and peace movements while having right in the idea, are so endlessly wrong in letting the beast have the world.

Some might find it rewarding to play psychologist and "understand" the burgler, coming into your home, really wants to find out about his childhood, unlucky ways, and misfortune, and can go in the front of a demonstration, demanding criminals right.

They want to make it a socially acceptable position that the criminal is actually the victim.

Enough feebleminded people will actually buy into that idea, and start accusing , the justice system, lawyers, lawmakers, and lobby hard in media for the criminals rights.

US right now, have slid into a halfhearted idea that terrorism is not as real for them as it was only a couple of years back, while the towers was still smoldering.

The means and actions that must be taken against terrorists, can never be socially acceptable. Becaue it involves a lot of blood, but we will survive, and we will win only by doing it.

It's a like it or not situation.

London is burning, like it or not, but England is saved.

If you are upset over London, ok go ahead, be upset.

-- July 13, 2006 10:52 PM ∞

Lance wrote:

Okie,Sara,

Thanks for the comments. And I do believe that many of the IOU's are held by the U.S. not to mention the various U.S. based Contractors.

Nelly B,

Strictly my opinions and not quoting anyone. I have been a long term investor (since Mar 04) and started reading TB not long after that. I also have a good memory for facts and figures, especially ones that affect this investment.

Note: I am "NOT" the Lance that posts on other sites, nor am I the dir*bal* that posted on this site way back when as Lance (very abusive and nasty posts for those that remember). I only did my first post on TB a couple of weeks ago after "years" of just being a spectator. And of course I managed to make some stupid comments on the first one. Duh!!!! Also I will only post on TB, as the others give me gas!!!!

I love this site and appreciate the thoughtfull and often entertaining posts by all. All of you keep this a fun place to be.

Thanks to all,

-- July 14, 2006 12:24 AM ∞

Lance wrote:

Nelly B,Outlaw,

My post stating "Street Value" of .31 cents to 1 Saddam ID is reflected in the below link (posted Nov 05)plus numerous others that stated the same thing. Took me quite a while to find this site again!!
I track this stuff. Street Value was never a valid exchange/ISX price. But was instead the propped-up price of the Saddam regime. I never meant for it to be taken as the international exchange rate, but for what it was, it's value on the streets of Baghdad for purchasing commodities/items prior to the war. But it does reflect what the common Iraqi buying power internal to Iraq was pre-war. So respectively their purchasing power has gone from 1 ID=$0.31 to 14 NID=$0.01. Quite a drop. And I believe that what ever is being discussed it involves increasing their purchasing power to near pre-war levels.

http://www.mosler.org/wwwboard/messages/2995.shtml

As for to $3.00+ value of the dinar in the olden days, there must be a thousand sites out there that will tell you all about the history/value of the Dinar. Try the old CPA website, I believe that it had info about this.

Happy investing!!!!

-- July 14, 2006 12:58 AM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

From the link in Lance's last post, the below is stated:

"In case of Iraq, do not look at the value of Old Iraqi Dinar of USD: 3.25 before 1991 war, Old Iraqi Dinar was grossly damaged during the period from 1991 to 2003 by Saddam s currency miss-management, as of today, now you have to simply look for the street value of Old ID, before the US attack in April-2003, this will be the correct street value, the maximum value the NID can achieve.

Hence Iraq currency can only recover to the extent of pre-war value of 2003 that too under normal economic conditions."

So, what was the street value of the ID before the attack in 2003?

I know there is a difference, but the CIB gives the official exchange rate in 2002 as 1957 ID / $1 US. So by the official rates, the value is already 32% higher than it was in 2002. I just can't see that there is a huge rebound to be had.

-- July 14, 2006 2:22 AM ∞

Okie wrote:

Let the construction begin.....
At some point in time they're going to need a more valuable Dinar to pay for these goodies...

Energy - Oil & Gas

Iraq to build oil refinery in Kurdistan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARBIL, Iraq, 13 July 2006 (UPI)
Iraq's oil minister announced plans Wednesday to build Iraq's largest oil refinery in the western region of Kurdistan.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-14-07-2006&article=9340

-- July 14, 2006 8:50 AM ∞

SGT AT SPOD wrote:

Everyone,

I have been called back for TDY for at least the next 90 days (indefinite). I will continue to check the site as I can, and when information pertinent presents itself, I'll let you guys know...

Take care...

I am "SGT AT SPOD"

-- July 14, 2006 9:48 AM ∞

Outlaw wrote:

SGT AT SPOD,

I have been told by a friend in the Green Zone that it is a mess out side the wire... Be careful my friend.

Outlaw

-- July 14, 2006 10:06 AM ∞

Okie wrote:

Nelly B.....

This is the best info I can find on the pre-war value of the Dinar. This article indicates the Dinar was 6.7 to the $ which would be around fifteen US cents. I think during that time frame it depended on which part of the country you were in and if you had regular Dinars or the Swiss Dinars.

The former national ("Swiss") dinar notes were used
throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and this national currency still circulated in the
Kurdish north. The bills nicknamed "Swiss dinar" either because of their relative
stability and strength or because it was made in Europe, depending on the account.
The Swiss dinar was trading at about 6.7 to the dollar in early July 2003.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/dinar_history.html

-- July 14, 2006 11:10 AM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR THEM TO ZERO LOP TODAY

Roger wrote:

Time has a tendency to shovel things around.

If a dignitary in a high position says -"Absolutely not" or -" Definitely yes". He might even say the famous -"read my lips" , but when faced with reality a couple of years down the road, he might not even be in charge or in a positon to decide for or against his deep wishes.

Since that article, the Iraqis have themselves taken over the rudder, and even though economical and financial principles stay the same, the decision to change or let things stay the same, the yes or no sayers are not our guys in black suits, and GI's covering the entrances.

Time has moved on.

===end of quote===

Roger, I agree.

TIME HAS MOVED ON..

So much of what is discussed on the board has been old info rehashed a million times over...

I was hoping the article I posted which was dated July 13th.. that is YESTERDAY:

Zero Lop or Zero Lopping the Dinar Analysis
13/07/2006

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677

... Would help move us into discussion which is more up to date and relevant.

It said:

Russia and Afghanistan are often compared to the Iraqi Dinar...

However, they have little in common to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop.

The article states, "Iraq has already printed and established a single national currency, with secure features and knows exactly how much is in circulation."

Even though WE were wondering and speculating about how much is is circulation, it is known by Iraq.

The conclusion of the article I thought very important when it said:

"It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way."

NO ONE seems to have addressed this.. which I felt was up to date and relevant information which is not based on some old and outdated model, and not a rehash of old information that has been around for years and years and which has not changed one bit to take into account the new realities and current stated economic goals in Iraq.

I would like to point out that it says it MAKES NO SENSE.. for them to zero lop. That is something I think should be seen as IMPORTANT!!!

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 12:35 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

SGT AT SPOD.....

Take care....keep your head down....and get back on the Forum ASAP so we'll know all is well.

-- July 14, 2006 12:56 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Sara,

You bring up my point in a more elegant way that I could ever express myself.

1. A lot of old info from years back is still circulating , and sometimes the relevancy of it is not current.

(who gives a rats ass about a long discussion regarding the Dinar value during the Brittish Rule)

2. It makes no sense zero looping.

However, I can sense two sources of information , the for and against.

The for, is the official statements and announcements from Iraq official sources, might it be an interview or article, but it seems to come from Iraq official sources, as far as I can judge.

The against, seem to come from free thinkers outside of the Iraq official system.

So far I have not seen any indication from the official sources that they start waivering or have doubts, or second thoughts about the zero looping.

-- July 14, 2006 1:39 PM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

SGT AT SPOD;

You are in my prayers. :)
God keep you and yours safe.

Roger;

You say the Zero Lop comes from Iraqi sources. The ONLY thing I have seen in the news is a SUGGESTION, one which is of LONG STANDING and not a new suggestion (and thus not seized upon the first time it was suggested, which may indicate it isn't a GREAT suggestion) that this MIGHT be a course of action to take.
Quote:

Iraq plans to revalue currency (07/07/06)

Iraq is CONSIDERING redenominating the dinar, printing new banknotes to remove inflation-generated zeros from its currency, THE FINANCE MINISTER SAID yesterday.

Senior government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dinar equal to 1,000 current dinars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the US dollar.

Asked about such a SUGGESTION in an interview on Arabiya television, Finance Minister Bayan Jabor said: "This is the ministry's SUGGESTION to the central bank. WE THINK in the long term it will be for the benefit of Iraq."

http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.org/idp/news/new1297.htm

This is NOT stated Iraqi policy nor has it been adopted.

When you say, quote:

"So far I have not seen any indication from the official sources that they start waivering or have doubts, or second thoughts about the zero lopping."

I do not see that as being substantiated from the news. All I have seen is a SUGGESTION by the finance minister to the Central Bank of Iraq.

Now, last time I checked, the person actually making the decision to zero lop or not was not the one making the SUGGESTION - that is the finance minister.. but those to whom he suggested this - namely the CBI. When we hear from THEM, the ones who have the actual power to zero lop within the CBI, that they are adopting this suggestion of zero lop, then I may take this SUGGESTION much more seriously. Until then, it is merely a recommendation which has received widespread media coverage.

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 3:26 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

This forum has such a wide range of thoughts on different subjects, and people looking for answers, it might do us good to follow the directions my Grandma gave to me when I was just a kid......

"If you want expert advice....Pray!"

Considering the subject we're discussing it might help us.....

Com'on Dinar!!!

-- July 14, 2006 3:29 PM ∞

Rob N. wrote:

All:

A few posts ago, I stated I am moving forward with buying $2,000,000 Dinar. My other purchases have all been uncirculated currency. I am considering the purchase of circulated bills. Should I continue to purchase only uncirculated bills or should I step out and buy currency that has been circulated? Does it make a difference?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 14, 2006 4:10 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Sara, Time has moved on yes, but the infomation that you are stating as posted on 13/7/06:
http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677 and also directly copied from here:
http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/zero_lop_analysis.html was just rehashed from here:
http://www.iraqiwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Zero_lopping_argument
If you look at the comments on that page AFTER the article, there are dates of October 2004 and onwards. This is not new news.
Also note in the text is states that the lowest denomination of the dinar is 25. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is 50, right? this would mean the text is also inaccurate.

The most recent significant news is the Iraq Finance Minister suggesting a 3 zero lop to realign the the dinar close to the dollar. That is what is important.

Yes we should deabte whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will.

-- July 14, 2006 4:53 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Rob N:

This is just my own opinion and I am just like you, looking from the outside, in.

It is just the condition of the currency that is important. Only worry about the 'integrity' of the circulated notes if they are worn, damaged, degraded to a state in which they would not be accepted by a bank. Other than that, I see no difference between circulated or uncirculated notes.

-- July 14, 2006 5:03 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

Nelly B.....

This is the best info I can find on the pre-war value of the Dinar. This article indicates the Dinar was 6.7 to the $ which would be around fifteen US cents. I think during that time frame it depended on which part of the country you were in and if you had regular Dinars or the Swiss Dinars.

The former national ("Swiss") dinar notes were used
throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and this national currency still circulated in the
Kurdish north. The bills nicknamed "Swiss dinar" either because of their relative
stability and strength or because it was made in Europe, depending on the account.
The Swiss dinar was trading at about 6.7 to the dollar in early July 2003.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/dinar_history.html
- - - - -
Thanks for the input, Okie.

On that very same page, the following is stated:

"The Iraqi dinar was worth $US 3.20 before the United Nations embargo that followed
Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait. By August 2002 it was trading at just below 2000 to
the US dollar, and by mid-April 2003 it had slipped to anywhere between 3500 and
4000 against the dollar. In July 2003 one US dollar equaled about 1,500 Iraqi dinars

This new Iraqi currency was made available to the Iraqi people on 15 October 2003.
They replaced the existing Iraqi "print" dinars at parity: one new Iraqi dinar was worth
the same as one "print" dinar. The new dinar replaced the "Swiss" dinar at the rate of
150 new dinars to one Swiss dinar. These different rates reflected the different
prices, expressed in local currency, in different parts of the country."

End of quote.

This swiss dinars traded at 6.7 to $1 were valued at 150 x the rate of 1 ID. The NID has replaced both the ID and the Swiss dinar. This does not make the NID worth the same rate as the swiss dinar was.

During 1990 to 2003, Saddam had trillions of additional currency printed, as this was the only way to pay the troops returning from the Kuwait incurrsion. This is the major reason the dinars (and the replacement NIDs) were so devalued and remain so. When the NIDS were issued, they were swapped out for the old IDs at a 1:1 rate and for the swiss dinars at a 150:1 rate. The values were not realigned to a now (October 2003) reduced amount of currency in circulation. This is why the value remains so low.
Hmmm. Almost talked myself into thinking a revalue could happen there...

-- July 14, 2006 6:20 PM ∞

bert wrote:

sara -i think the 25 coins where stolen, still in the trucks.they never made it out.

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

bert wrote:

sara -i think the 25 coins where stolen, still in the trucks.they never made it out.i think?

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Our dreams are in our grasp.

Iraqi Dinar zero loop, we got our gasp.

No one knows what's gonna play.

Best suggestion is to pray.

The punchline sucks cause I dont know what rhimes with gasp.

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

Anonymous wrote:

i guess once wasn't enough.sorry for the double post.

-- July 14, 2006 8:32 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Hey, do a better one

-- July 14, 2006 8:34 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Anynomous, if you want to stay anynomous, dont post as Bert, and come back as Anynomous, it kind of blows your cover.

-- July 14, 2006 8:36 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Hah, remeber some time ago, we had it up on discussion the scenario that if the zero loop takes place, and it's pegged to the Dollar, but still it's a non flowing, non exchangeable currency on the international currency exchange market.

So that would leave us with a bunch of Dinars that can only be exchanged in Iraq, if we want to get Dollars for it.

There was a mention, that if that happened, the Dinar dealers would probably get us for the second time and set something up.

Right on, here it is, the first Dinar Dollar exchange just poped up (pooped up), for a cost of 5% of total value, that seems to be the deal.

Ok fair and square, so at least that aspect is covered. 5% dont seem to be too far away from banks buying and selling price for a bank traded currency, so I would'nt take a puke on the Dinar dealers doing it.

At least there is one outlet, and you can bet there will be more popping up as time goes by.

-- July 14, 2006 9:30 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

sorry, its at:

www.exchangeyourdinar.com

-- July 14, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

Bob wrote:

What is everyone's general opinion of the zero lopping...do you think it will happen or not...why or why not?

-- July 14, 2006 11:24 PM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Bob;

The arguments AGAINST a zero lop are still very credible and solid so far as I can tell. I still think it makes no sense to do a zero lop - for a variety of reasons - this being very important as one of them:

"It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way."

However, I think in time the correct version of what is going to happen will be proven by world events. After all, as I think I said before.. it isn't the minister of finance's call on whether it happens, but those to whom he SUGGESTED the zero lop.. and their verdict has not yet been given.

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 11:51 PM ∞

Bob wrote:

Sara,

Thank you for the reply. I agree....I cant figure in my mind how a zero lopping could possibly bolster their economy nor how it would fit into their economic goals....I hope that the CBI and the World Bank think like we do...and most definitely the world events will be a HUGE factor.....the Middle East is total chaos right now....if it isnt one thing....it is another over here......We think we are getting Iraq straightened out and then the Hezbollah and Israel are going at it...then the Syrians want to get involved.....then the Iranians threaten Israel if they retaliate against Syria....what a mess.

-- July 15, 2006 1:28 AM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Bob;

I agree. I cannot see zero lopping bolstering their economy or fitting with the economic goals which they have recently stated. I think Nelly B missed the point. As the article I quoted pointed out (in a statement which becomes increasingly more relevant as time goes by), a zero lop goes AGAINST the current, up to date, and stated goals of the government of Iraq!!

And, as turtle pointed out in his post (below), one important reason not to zero lop is that it would make the Iraqis very upset with their politicians.. And committing political suicide is not often a normal and rational move for most politicians..

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/04/iraqi_dinar_dis_3.html#121995

Quote: "That folks would not just be financial crazy but social suicide in this country right now."

I think that opinion has a lot of validity.. as well as his comment in the post about PERCEPTION being everything in Arab countries.

Nelly B also said, "The most recent significant news is the Iraq Finance Minister SUGGESTING a 3 zero lop to realign the the dinar close to the dollar. That is what is important."

But, as I stated recently, I think it is merely a SUGGESTION or recommendation, though one which has received widespread media coverage. This is like when Rep. Murtha repeatedly SUGGESTED the US pull all the troops out of Iraq.. until they voted on it and defeated the measure.

Quote:

House Rejects Timetable for Iraq Pullout
Jun 16, 2006 By LIZ SIDOTI

WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Friday rejected a timetable for pulling U.S. forces out of Iraq after a ferociously partisan debate, forcing lawmakers in both parties to go on record on a major issue in re-election campaigns nationwide.

A day after the Senate took the same position against troop withdrawal, the GOP-led House voted 256-153 to approve a nonbinding resolution that says an "arbitrary date for the withdrawal or redeployment" of American forces is not in the national interest.

Republicans and Democrats alike explained the decision, as each side saw it, that confronts voters.

"The choice for the American people is clear; don't run in the face of danger, victory will be our exit strategy," Rep. Mike Conaway, R-Texas, said.

Countered Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.: "It's not a matter of stay the course. It's a matter of change direction."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060616/D8I9HBD00.html

Rep. John Murtha may have SUGGESTED in very strong tones that the troops should be pulled out, but it is only important what was eventually ADOPTED, not what he suggested. In a similar manner, in the case of zero lopping, there is a HUGE difference between a SUGGESTION (even by the finance minister) and the actual adopting of that suggestion, don't you think?

Let me put it this way... let's change the players in that recent news story (above) and see how it sounds..

====My fictitious quote for illustration=====

The US is CONSIDERING redenominating the dollar, printing new banknotes to remove inflation-generated zeros from its currency, Rep Murtha said yesterday.

Senior Bush government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dollar equal to 1,000 current dollars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the Euro.

Asked about such a SUGGESTION in an interview on US television, Rep. John Murtha said: "This is the ministry's SUGGESTION to the central bank. WE THINK in the long term it will be for the benefit of the US."

====end of My fictitious quote for illustration===

How much credibility would you give to the suggestion by Rep. Murtha in this story? Doesn't it depend on WHO has the POWER to zero lop? And what are those with the power to actually DO a zero lop saying? The "Senior government and central bank officials" are being polite and saying.. "Um... yes.. well...", (quote): "the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME.." Kind of like you would expect the Bush administration to react to the above fictitious Rep. Murtha proposal. They would not wish to offend him by flat out saying it is not a suggestion they wish to entertain, but on the other hand, that may not exactly be the kind of suggestion they are really keen on adopting. This was a POLITE reply.. but do note that they were NOT saying.. "Yes, the Holy Grail!! THIS is the suggestion of the century! We will implement a zero lop and it will solve all our difficulties!! What a brilliant suggestion!! We will ADOPT it!!" Were they? That WASN'T the general reply of the CBI, was it?

When Nelly B suggests: "we should deabte whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will."

I see it much as the "ferociously partisan debate" over the troops leaving... it may be a heated debate, but it will not accomplish much in the end and is a waste of time and effort. Though the Democrats may debate the issue and bring it up every two minutes to try and force debate on the point over and over and over.. I think it wiser to wait to see how this pans out with the real decision makers rather than spend useless time discussing bridges which we have not yet even seen (a zero lop)... and then theoretically crossing them and building castles in the sand on the other side.

Sara.

-- July 15, 2006 2:29 AM ∞

Bob wrote:

Just imagine what it will do for our economy if the dinar revalues without zero lopping...depending on the revalue....imagine the revenue that will generate for the big companies that invested....and the increased consumer spending it will create for us investors that have bought the currency.

-- July 15, 2006 3:49 AM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Sara Madgid wrote:

When Nelly B suggests: "we should debate whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will."

I see it much as the "ferociously partisan debate" over the troops leaving... it may be a "heated debate, but it will not accomplish much in the end and is a waste of time and effort. Though the Democrats may debate the issue and bring it up every two minutes to try and force debate on the point over and over and over.. I think it wiser to wait to see how this pans out with the real decision makers rather than spend useless time discussing bridges which we have not yet even seen (a zero lop)... and then theoretically crossing them and building castles in the sand on the other side.

Sara.
- - - -

"Sigh" I like to be prepared for real possibilities, based on real events (the suggested proposal of zero lop by finance minister) Most of the talk here seems to be endlessly optimistic about the possibilty of a revalue to a hugely inflated amount. Is that any less of a waste of time and effort?

Also if the following were to happen as per Sara's mock scenario:

"Senior Bush government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dollar equal to 1,000 current dollars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the Euro"

That might hold some weight, if at the time it cost 1000 Dollars to buy one Euro! just as it now costs 1477 dinars to buy one Dollar.

At the present time, if the Dinar is zero lopped, it has little effect outside of Iraq. Wages and street prices would just be adjusted to the new values. To me it makes perfect sense that they would and could do this now, before major foreign investment takes place and the dinar is traded on the Foreign Exchange. Once it trades on the Forex, they can not carry out a zero lop or redenomination without having worldwide repercussions for those that hold the currency.

It makes no difference if the denominations of a new set of notes would overlap the current NIDs. The old notes would be exchanged at a bank at the correct rate for the new ones. (just as happened with the swap out of both ID's and Swiss dinars which had different values) There would obviously need to be a difference in apperance of the reprinted notes and during the transitional period between the two currencies being in circulation, the street-worth of the old currency would not be the same as the new currency, even if the face value was the same.

The cost of reprinting and redistribution (approx $150 - $200 million) of a new currency is not prohibitive to this happening. The cost of a redenomination after major investment and world trading in Iraq currency would be vastly more and would also destabilise the integrity of the currency and investor's confidence.

Yes, time has moved on, but he NID was only ever intended to be an interim currency. What has changed to change that fact?

Denying the possibility that the zero lop (with a newly denominated currency) could happen is akin to putting ones head in the sand. It is ignoring all the most critical indicators from the most influencial sources.

-- July 15, 2006 5:45 AM ∞

old head wrote:

This is not going to please many people. I have been observing for a while and have drawn a conclusion. Holders of the physical Dinar in this country are going to be in for a shock. I saw currency exchanges in person in Vietnam. It happens and it happens very very quickly.... overnight. if there is a re-evaluation in the Dinar you can rest assured there will be a new note to take the place of the old one. And there will not be a whisper of it coming. People will line up and turn in old currency for new currency. Unless you are in that line you are going to lose. Bank accounts will re-value overnight and what once may have been 250,000 will be 250. no loss, no gain. Dreaming that 250.00 Dinar will instantly become $250,000 is just that, a dream. The people who stand to become millionares have already done so by selling Dinars to those with closets full of future wall paper. Sorry folks, there is no free lunch. No doubt that Iraq will prosper and become free and prosperous state due to the efforts of the Iraqi people and the dedication of our soldiers but comparing it to what happened in Kuwait is folly IMHO. My choice for an investment in the country would be to open an account in Iraq and deposit funds into that account. Forget them for twenty years and exchange them at retirement. Nelly B hit the nail on the head

old head

-- July 15, 2006 7:22 AM ∞

Bob wrote:

All we can do is wait and see.

-- July 15, 2006 9:32 AM ∞

MissDinar wrote:

There will be NO zero lop, the dnar will have a internal increase initially say 1475 to 475. Then around the end of te month it will hit the forex at anyway between .68 - 1.12. Trust me were are going to be RICH

-- July 15, 2006 9:51 AM ∞

Bob wrote:

MissDinar...I love your way of thinking...however may I ask your basis on that?

-- July 15, 2006 10:10 AM ∞

Okie wrote:

For thousands of years Iraq has been a rich country just based on their water supplies and agriculture. Oil is a great addition to their wealth.

______________________________________

Cash cow recovers after years of turmoil

IRAQ’S economy is built on its vast oil reserves. Oil and crude materials, excluding fuel, make up 91 per cent of its exports. Livestock and food account for another 5 per cent of its revenues. Iraq’s industries also include textiles, pharmaceutical products, cement, steel and petrochemicals. Its agricultural sector produces wheat, barley, rice, vegetables, cotton and dates.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9072-2270655,00.html

-- July 15, 2006 10:49 AM ∞

Okie wrote:

A lot of good conversation related to the Pros and Cons about Iraq and our investment in their currency.

I think we’re overlooking a very a very positive fact regarding the current and future path of Iraq. The US, the richest and most powerful country on this planet and the next one over, has declared they want Iraq to be a bright and shining example of a Democratic style of Government in the Middle East. Contrary to the comments from the US liberal press and with help from some powerful friends, this goal of the US and our friends is actually making outstanding progress.

Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so.

-- July 15, 2006 10:53 AM ∞

Okie wrote:

old head & Miss Dinar.....

I enjoy reading both sides of thought on the dinar so keep them coming.....

My investment thinking is more like Miss Dinar....I think it will hit the market with a very good value....

-- July 15, 2006 11:08 AM ∞

MissDinar wrote:

This is based on information I have from a source inside the ISX. He has been very accurate upto now with his facts. The bottom line is, we have all been in this for a long time, willing the reval to happen, but still we have people spending alot of time explaining why it cannot. It is going to happen so go with the flow and enjoy your money.

-- July 15, 2006 11:34 AM ∞

Sara Madgid wrote:

Interesting info, MissDinar. Thanks for contributing it. :)

Okie;

You said:

"Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so."

Very good point! :)

I agree with Bob and think that we must wait and see. (We're all developing patience.)

Sara.

-- July 15, 2006 12:15 PM ∞

Bob wrote:

I have been in Bagram Afghanistan and have been outside the wire; have seen this country to include the capital Kabul; this is a very poor country at best. There is no way in the world that I can see Iraq like this.

-- July 15, 2006 1:14 PM ∞

Carl wrote:

THERE ARE CERTAIN TRUTHS THAT NEVER CHANGE

1. The Humanoid Species always does things for a reason
2. All things are first created by thought
3. Nothing lies within a vacuum as all things are connected

With that in mind allow me to think out loud here for a minute...
First, as a dinar investor I want you and I both to prosper from our adventure here..
With that said...let me point out a few things...

FACT: IRAN WAS THE PRIMARY INTELLEGENCE FEED THAT THE USA USED TO REMOVE SADDAM

FACT: THE US OF A DID WHAT IRAN COULD NOT DO IN 8 YEARS OF WAR WITH SADDAM

FACT: THE PRESENT IRANIAN REGIME BELIEVES STRONGLY IN THE 12 IMAN THEORY

FACT: THE PRESENT IRANIAN LEADERS BELIEVE THAT A MAJOR CATASTROPHIC EVENT RESULTING IN A LARGE LOSS OF LIFE AND DEVASTATION IS NEEDED IN ORDER FOR THE IMAN TO RETURN

FACT: THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT SEES NO ROAD BLOCK IN CAUSING THAT EVENT TO HAPPEN...AND THE SOONER THE BETTER...THEY ARE NOW BUILDING A PALACE FOR THE RETURN OF THE IMAM

FACT: THE IRANIAN RUSE OF FIGHTING OVER THE RIGHT TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR MATERIAL FOR ENERGY IS BEING USED AS THE CATALYST TO IGNITE AND UNIT THE ARAB WORLD

FACT: FOR OVER A YEAR NOW I HAVE POSTED THAT IRAN'S TOTAL INTENTION IS TO RE-UNITE THE OLD PERSIA INTO THE NEW PERSIAN EMPIRE...THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING SADDAM REMOVED...IT COULD NOT BE DONE WITH IRAQ

FACT: IRAN NOW HAS MORE INFLUENCE WITH THE IRAQI POPULATION OF SHIA THAT EVER BEFORE

FACT: SINCE THE OTTOMAN PERIOD, THE SUNNI HAVE BEEN IN CONTROL...EVEN DURING OCCUPATION OF THE BRITISH...NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME THE SHIA ARE IN CONTROL..

FACT: THE SUNNI HAVE FOR CENTURIES LOOKED DOWN ON THE SHIA AS IGNORANT, SUPERSTIOUS TRASH..

FACT: DURING MY POST I HAVE STATED, THAT IRAN WILL ATTEMPT TO DO IT BY THE FOLLOWING:
1. UNITE THE SHIA PEOPLE UNDER THE BANNER OF THE ISLAM FAITH
2. UNITE ALL OF THE ARAB PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES SURROUNDING IRAN AND IRAQ UNDER THE PRIDE OF BEING AN ARAB

FACT: THE HAMAS AND HEZBALAH ARE CONTROLLED BY THE IRAN REGIME

FACT: BOTH INCIDENTS NOW ON GOING WERE CONTROLLED AND INSTIGATED BY THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN HAS MADE THE STATEMENT WE WILL NOT STAND BY AN ALLOW DEMOCRACY TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE EAST

FACT: BOTH IRAQ AND LEBANON HAVE FLEDGING AND TODDLER STEPPING DEMOCRACIES

FACT: THE HAMAS AND HEZBALAH STARTED THE INCIDENTS AND BLAME ISRAEL FOR MAKING THEM DO IT

FACT: IRAN HAS DIRECT AND INDIRECT INFLUENCE WITHIN THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN HAS DIRECT CONTROL OVER SADR WHO HAS DIRECT CONTROL OVER THE MILITIA

FACT: THE MILITIA UNDER THE CONTROL OF SADR IS THE MAIN INSTIGATOR MURDER, ETHNIC CLEANSING,KIDNAPPINGS, DISRUPTION OF ECONOMIC SERVICES, DISRUPTION OF THE TRANSITION INTO A OPERATING IRAQI GOVERNMENT. SADR HAS BEEN AND IS ONE OF THE MAJOR ROAD BLOCKS TO A SMOOTHER TRANSITION...YET THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT WILL NOT REMOVE HIM...HE HAS BEEN GIVEN INDIRECT POWER BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF BACKBONE WITHIN THE PRESENT IRAQI GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN CONTROLS SADR WHO JUST MADE A STATEMENT THAT IRAQIS WOULD NOT ALLOW ISRAEL TO STRIKE LEBANON WITHOUT JOINING IN AND HELPING THEIR "ARAB BROTHERS"

FACT: SADR ALSO MADE IT CLEAR HE CONSIDERED AMERICA TO BE JUST AS GUILTY AS ISRAEL

FACT: SYRIA MADE THE STATEMENT WE WILL NOT ALLOW OUR ARAB BROTHERS TO FIGHT ALONE

FACT: IRAN MADE STATEMENT ATTACK SYRIA AND THE ENTIRE REGION OF ARABS WILL RESPOND..THUS MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO SPEAK FOR OTHER ARAB NATIONS...OTHER ARAB NATIONS REMAINED SILENT WHEN THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT STATED ISRAEL SHOULD BE REMOVE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH...IN THE ARAB CULTURE SILENCE IS A SIGN OF AGREEMENT...

FACT: AS OF TODAY ...SADR NOW HAS HIS CLERICS GIVING FIRE BRAND MESSAGES INCITING THE MILITAS AND SHIA PEOPLE TOWARD JOINING THE HEZBALAH,HAMAS AND ATTACKING THE COALITION FORCES

FACT: IRAN HAS NOW SENT OVER SOLDIERS TO FIGHT WITH THE HEZBALAH ESPECIALLY TO LAUNCH DRONES AND ROCKETS...SO IRAN HAS NOW BECOME DIRECTLY INVOLVED...

FACT: IRAN TIMED THIS FOR THE G-8 SUMMIT...TO DETRACT FROM THE NUCLEAR ISSUE

MY THOUGHTS: IRAN HAS STARTED THEIR MOVE TO UNITE THE ARAB PEOPLE AS ONE FIGHTING FORCE...THERE WILL BE OTHER MAJOR INCIDENTS COMING...THE MIDDLE EAST 2 YEARS FROM NOW WILL NOT BE AS YOU SEE IT TODAY...IRAN HAS NOW MOVED SOME OF THEIR PIECES ON THE BOARD TO STRENGHTEN THEIR POSITION IN CONTROLLING IRAQ...LOOK FOR A DIRECT OR INDIRECT PUSH ....THE BIG FIRE WORKS WILL START IN SPRING OF 2007...IRAQ MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE THIS TURMOIL IN ITS PRESENT GOVERNMENTAL STATE...IF THEY HAVE TO...THE IRAQ GOVERNMENT WILL TURN ON THE COALITION FORCES TO SAVE ITSELF...THIS WILL NOT BE A EASY DECISION BUT A RESONABLE ONE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE THE EXPANDING HATE FOR THE USA AND ISRAEL..

I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THE DINAR AND IT REVALUING...BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK THE DINAR SETS IN A VACUUM AND THE SITUATION IN LEBANON AND GAZA WILL HAVE NO AFFECT .......

I FEEL THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST AREA IS ON THE BRINK....IT CAN GO EITHER WAY....OUR ARM FORCES IN IRAQ IF NOT BY NOW...SHOULD BE ON HIGH ALERT...FOR I FEEL THEY ARE IN THE MOST EXTREME DANGER SINCE OUR FORCES LANDED THERE..IRAN AS I WRITE THIS IS DOING ITS LEVEL BEST TO IGNITE THE REGION EVEN MORE...THIS INTURN WILL INFLAME THE SHIA OF IRAQ...THUS START THE UNITING THE PERSIA OF OLD WITH "THE PERSIA OF TODAY"

-- July 15, 2006 1:23 PM ∞

Turtle wrote:

In an old post someone had some rough numbers on current amount of NID on the market vs current amount of foreign currency held by the INB. If I remember right, they figured that if the dinar was pegged to the dollar based on the value of foreign money the NID would be worth $0.28. Can anyone find current numbers?

The last I heard the US government was the largest owner of NID. If that is true, the US government and the current administration have just as much to gain from seeing the NID skyrocket as we do. Imagine how beneficial it would be in an election year to pay off a large chunk of US debt, push oil/fuel prices down, and post another success in Iraq story. It may not happen, but I can place bets on what the government is pushing for. I doubt that pushing is limited to the Iraqi government either. I wonder how much influence the US has on World Bank decisions? Anyway, for us it is a dream, for them it breathes political life. I'm sure other nations involved would not mind either.

-- July 15, 2006 1:58 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Carl,
Master piece. You set the pieces straight. Perhaps the old prophet Nostradamus was right, when he talked about the rise of the Blue Turban as the last big war.

-- July 15, 2006 2:04 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

old head & Miss Dinar.....

I enjoy reading both sides of thought on the dinar so keep them coming.....

My investment thinking is more like Miss Dinar....I think it will hit the market with a very good value....

-- July 15, 2006 11:08 AM

- - - - -
Okie, Miss Dinar, Sara: I wish I could share in your optimisim at the present time. I got into this venture around 4 months ago and bought a substantial amount more dinars just around a month ago, largely of the back of the 'info' Taxmama was saying at that time. Until just a few weeks ago, I was as optimistic as anyone and thought a zero lop was a crazy impossibility.

The reason for my change of heart (I still see my view as a realist, not a pessamist) is the undeniably worrying fact that the Iraqi Finance Minister is has proposed a zero lop. It makes sense to me to make this public knowledge if it is simply a proposal to change the denominations of currency. If there were to be a change in the dinar/dollar EXCHANGE RATE by a factor of 1000, a zero lop would be so way off the mark as to be unthinkable. surely the Iraqi Finance Minister has at the very least, a 'fair idea' of the direction the currency needs to go in?!

Consider this... If the information was leaked or 'broadcast' to the worldwide media that the exchange rate was suddenly going to change by a factor of 1000 I.E. a Dinar was shortly going to be worth 68cents, every man woman and child who has a buck to their name would swamp every Dinar seller on earth to buy the currency. Is that happening at this present time? I don't think so. Who's interests would it be in to release this information to the news? Certainly not Iraqs!

I agree the dinar will hit the market at a good value... the New currency will be around 1 Dinar to the Dollar, AFTER the zero lop!

-- July 15, 2006 2:11 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

A lot of good conversation related to the Pros and Cons about Iraq and our investment in their currency.

I think we’re overlooking a very a very positive fact regarding the current and future path of Iraq. The US, the richest and most powerful country on this planet and the next one over, has declared they want Iraq to be a bright and shining example of a Democratic style of Government in the Middle East. Contrary to the comments from the US liberal press and with help from some powerful friends, this goal of the US and our friends is actually making outstanding progress.

Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so.

- - - - -
End of quote.

1) If Iraq were to revalue so that 1 NID was worth 68cents, the 4.5 to 9+ trillion NIDs in circulation would be worth between 3.06 and 6.12+ trillion dollars ($3.06,000,000,000,000 to $6.12,000,000,000,000+)
This would dwarf the $700 billion (700,000,000,000) currency in circulation in the United States.
http://www.gocurrency.com/countries/united_states.htm

Who thinks Iraq is worth this much in its present state? Anyone?

2) May I direct you to one of Sara's posts, where she tells us that Afganistan has already had a zero lop:
http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_4.html#122137

I agree, that Iraq has more worth as a country than Afganistan and that it is unlikely that Iraq will come to the world markets with a currency worth less than that of Afganistan. That is why I can see very clearly why the Iraqi Finance Minister is suggesting that the dinar take a move in this direction by zero lopping. This will make exactly that happen.

-- July 15, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

MissDinar wrote:

There will be NO zero lop, the dnar will have a internal increase initially say 1475 to 475. Then around the end of te month it will hit the forex at anyway between .68 - 1.12. Trust me were are going to be RICH

-- July 15, 2006 09:51 AM

- - - - -
Just to clarify, is that the end of THIS month?
If that doesn't happen, will you exchange my dinars at that rate instead? :o) Pleeeease.

-- July 15, 2006 3:11 PM ∞

Carl wrote:

Miss Dinar:
I mean no disrespect here... but can I purchase your perceived dinar valution time table in a bottle or does it come in powder form?

-- July 15, 2006 3:40 PM ∞

TAYLOR wrote:

MissDinar.. I have found this message board to be the most helpful and up to date with information concerning dinar trading. The people here are honest optomistic buyers and analyzers of this topic. Your credibly will go up 1000% (along with your dinars) if you can share a source for your information. We've all heard the town crier singing those phrases before.. please just back up your story. Thanks and good luck on your dinars!!

-- July 15, 2006 6:02 PM ∞

Okie wrote:

Well..."Ah reckin whut we have here is a failure to communicate"...remember that movie?

Seriously, the conundrum we're pondering may not have an answer at this time because we simply don't have enough facts. Surely, with all the discussion on this and other forums, some bright soul would have been able to solve the Dinar puzzle.

Hopefully, in my opinion, it will happen in the near future and we can take the advice given by Carl and look into trusts and other devices to handle our increased stash. Just in case....I'm drafting an Offshore Asset Protection Trust.

-- July 15, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Carls post on the Iran situation really got me thinking in that direction.

I have'nt got it all together in my head yet, (dont worry I'll come up with something clever eventually)

One thing for sure though, seing the Hezbolla /Israel/Lebanon war taking place on front row TV brings his point home with reality, and we are looking at a cataclysmic event that will play out, maybe now maybe in the fall of 07.

There will be bigger things to come in the Middle East before everything is said and done.

The world can sense the upcoming battle, and is juggling for best preposition, Saudi Arabia did an un-presedented statement, saying Hezbolla was irresponsible doing it's move on Israel.

The conflict has been going on for years after years, but you may have noticed, that for the first time in the Palestine Israel conflict, in almost any official statement, Iran is pointed out as the instigator.

That fact is highlighted now. In the past this fact was mentioned on page twelve.

Whatever the upcoming conflict will do, it will involve Iran as the first target and Syria as the secondary.

Probably a simultaneous strike.

This time around, I do not believe it will be a US only operation, and Israel will not be asked to sit on the sideline, US doing the war for them, in order to not stirr up "Arabian feelings".

This will be the decisive battle, and Israel will be a full participant, and any pretense will be set aside.

I do believe that in the Arab world, they will see the writing on the wall, and they have a clear perspective of who's got the power and who will be involved.

Any involvment will bring destruction, and the line will pretty much be Iran and it's allies, might it be Syria, Hezbolla or Sadr.

You will always find uneducated youths screaming most anywhere, but Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi, Kuwait, Dubai and the other heavyweights will stay out. They know better, and in their heart, they don't mind see the Iranian Mullas go.

We have surrounded Iran now, except for north, Russia, where Bush is sitting and talking with Putin right now.

Iran is going nuclear,and they will use it on us or Israel. This is a timerace.

I do sincerely hope though that when the showdown comes, it's not just the Clinton doctrine of shooting a couple of cruise missiles, and hope they learned a lesson, but the end result must involve a real target of a complete removal of the Iranian regime.

That brings me to another very interesting question, how much is the Iranian Dinar? Is it called Dinars in Iran?

If (when) a showdown comes, their currency will take a nosedive.

This conflict will deeply affect the whole region, oil will go high, and this will be for the Iraqis Dinars benefit.

You sneese and the oil will go higher, Lebanon, and Israel is not oilproducing countries, they end up shooting, and sure enough, the oilcompanies ended up with a highest ever in oilprices.

Hope the Iraq Dinar pays out soon, I need to invest in oilstocks.

-- July 15, 2006 9:40 PM ∞

Roger wrote:

Okie,

Well, count the winnings before you start setting something up.

I was involved in a mining project years back, and set everything up, before the deal was done. There was long negotiations, and the deal fell through.

I would wait until you have the bird in your hand, otherwise it's waisted time, and money.

You might want to check in on the set up's they have in Nevada.

It's the only state where the board memebers of a company have identity protection per the state constitution.

In my case, I had set up two companies, one that had the finances, and the production company, that had all their assets heavily in debt to the company with the finances.

The basic set up may not apply in your case, but the idea is that if you have money, anyone with a wiplash or tire tracks on their foot, will sue you for everything you have.

By having everything in a company that is borderline bankrupt, and have all their assets verifyable filed in the courthouse owed to someone else, the lawyer suing wont even touch the case, because there is nothing for him to take.

In my case this was a business deal set up with a producing company, but I'm sure the basic set up, maybe in another form, would be more suitable for a single person, or a family, that has gotten into the greens.

I was not into that particular scene, at the time, but I do remember, seing a lot of options with offshore accounts.

The charm with Nevada State company board identity protection is that you can more or less "dissapear" as a rich man.

As you know, the board, has the real power in a company, and the CEO, does what the board tells him to do.

There is even set ups, where you can hire a CEO, in Nevada. I visited one of those companies. You will have an office, with a CEO, and your name plate, on the office, and at the entrance.

It's easy switchable, nameplates, and one CEO can be a CEO for about 150 companies. There are long corridors of offices, and in each one of them sits a "hired CEO". This might sound very weird, but it's a completely legal and very much used system of asset protection.

Most every Hollywood celebrity have their own Nevada Corporation. Nevada's laws are especially good for individuals and smaller to medium size companies.

Bigger companies with 50 or more employees, are better off registring their company in other states.

If the train comes in for you, you might want to take a trip to Nevada and go through a couple of those