Truck and Barter

Comments

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Bob wrote:

Hmmmmmm.....new notepad..alrighty then....what is the latest, have been away for a bit.

-- July 13, 2006 9:16 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

Well, we were all going to be rich. Then we weren't. Now, we might be, but we will wait in see.

-- July 13, 2006 9:29 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Yes..I remember that.....any significant news lately?

-- July 13, 2006 9:36 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

We might be? I see where the zero lopping theory has cooled off a bit? Personally, I dont think that will happen; we wont become the millionaires that we thought but I cant see what good that would do for their economy either. Any thoughts?

-- July 13, 2006 9:40 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Both Russia and Afghanistan are countries who have zero lopped their currency.
Lets look at their situations in relation to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation and
rumors about Iraq doing a zero lop on their currency:

Afghanistan had 4 types of currency in circulation as a result of a civil war. It was
unknown how much of each was in circulation. For the people and the
government, this was a very difficult situation. As a result, the currency kept
losing it's value. They needed something both credible and efficient to use as
currency. You did not want people carrying around bags of money since
everything is cash based. Their zero lop happened at the same time as they
printed new currency to replace the confusing mix they had before. This ensured
everyone had the same currency, there was a known amount in circulation, and
people could buy and sell things with few notes. It has little in common to the
Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop. Iraq has already
printed and established a single national currency, with secure features
and knows exactly how much is in circulation. The Dinar denominations are
already designed to carry high or low values without carrying around sacks of
money. It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when
they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals.

Russia performed zero lopping to their currency in 1998. They did this in
response to hyperinflation and to restore confidence in their currencies structure
and value. Iraq has roughly only 20% inflation. Russia also had denominations
that went too high - they had denominations of 5k, 10k, 50k, 100k, and 500k -
which were replaced with denominations of 5, 10, 50, 100 , and 500. In
comparison, Iraq's highest denomination is the 25k and has denominations all the
way down to 25 Dinar. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills,
they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make
sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or
zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by
increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their
poor in a positive way.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/zero_lop_analysis.html

This situation is focing me to take up smoking ---*~~

-- July 13, 2006 10:22 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

also... check this out..

http://www.iraqiwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Zero_lopping_argument

-- July 13, 2006 10:23 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Lance,

Thank's for that information... Great post indeed!

Outlaw

-- July 13, 2006 10:49 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S.-Iraqi chamber of commerce and industry to organize investment forum in Amman

Amman, July 12 (Petra) The U.S.- Iraqi Chamber of Commerce and Industry intend to organize an Iraqi investment forum in Amman next month, Chairman of the chamber Fares al-Mesleh disclosed Wednesday.

He said the forum aimed to explain Iraq's future investment policy including the new market mechanism that will be adopted by the Iraqi government in light of the new investment law approved recently by the Iraqi parliament.

http://www.petra.gov.jo/nepras/2006/Jul/12/6000.htm

The phrase "in light of the new investment law approved recently by the Iraqi parliament" has me wondering if the FI laws are indeed passed now? I feel those laws being passed is a HUGE step forward for Iraq, so it isn't a small point of interest..

Sara.

-- July 13, 2006 11:55 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Hey, can we do this, too? :)

Sara.

===

Iraqi leader warns biased media outlets

BAGHDAD, 13 July 2006 (Associated Press) -- Iraq's prime minister warned television stations Wednesday against broadcasting reports that incite violence, saying he will not hesitate to shut them down.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/9305

-- July 13, 2006 12:07 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Lance....

Good info. in your posting....thanks.

I have a feeling the US is holding a lot of those I.O.U.'s they can cash in at a later date.

-- July 13, 2006 12:37 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara....

I read the Kurds have passed their F.I. laws but I thought the central government was a few weeks away....maybe they're moving faster than we think...I hope!

Also....yes!! It would be nice to shut CNN down for a few years!

-- July 13, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

They don't have to shut the MSM down, Okie.. just make sure they don't publish stuff like the r.ape trial going on which incited the terrorists to kill three US servicemen (according to the terrorists). The fact that the accused has entered a plea of not guilty barely made a dent in the news in comparison to their playing up the man's guilt... The courts probably cannot get an unbiased jury after this coverage. If that is true of a jury, how much more so of the terrorists? So much for supporting the troops, and the supposed value in America of "innocent UNTIL proven guilty"..

Sara.

-- July 13, 2006 1:13 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraqi PM Al-Maliki will visit Whitehouse July 25

Iraqi Prime Minister to Visit White House
Thursday July 13, 2006 1:31 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush snuck over to Baghdad to meet him last month. Now he plans to welcome Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to the White House for the first time.

Al-Maliki will visit July 25, the White House announced Thursday as Bush visited Germany.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-5948603,00.html

-- July 13, 2006 1:49 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

repatriation of capital.....I sure do like the sound of that!!!!

Iraq's former Minister of Planning offers suggestions for new foreign investment law

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12 July 2006 (PortAl Iraq)
Iraq's former Minister of Planning suggested in an article that the new foreign investment law should offer credible guarantees to investors related to the repatriation of capital, as well as substantial tax exemptions.

The former minister also strongly advocated the creation of an agency to promote foreign investments in Iraq.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-13-07-2006&article=9314

-- July 13, 2006 2:17 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Hi Lance.

I appreciate your input and info. If you are copying info directly from another site, could you please make that clear, E.g. putting the text in quotes or saying the folling link says... as it appeared what you were writing was your own thoughts and opinions.

I note also that the arguement of not zero lopping the Dinar was a summary from the 'WIKI' site, where there are comments after it dated 2004. I thought this was relevant information.

To all, I ask again any opinion / views on what us cash holders would / should do in the event of a reissue of dinars prior to the dinar being released on the Foreign Exchange. I'm not saying that WILL happen, just my own view is that it is a strong possibility that I for one want to be prepared for.
This is based on the news that Iraqi Financial Minister has proposed the zero lop and to my mind an exchange of currency would be inevitable.

-- July 13, 2006 3:04 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

I found a list of ID/USD exchange rates posted on the ICB website: Http://www.cbiraq.org/Binder4.pdf
This is a big document. This page I am refering to is Page 17 of 24, Table 10.

The rates are listed as below:

Exchange rate of Iraq Dinar per US Dollar:

ID/US$ Period

10 1991
21 1992
74 1993
458 1994
1674 1995
1170 1996
1471 1997
1620 1998
1972 1999
1930 2000
1929 2001
1957 2002
- 2003
2219 Jan
2354 Feb
2541 Mar
3500 Apr
1443 May
1459 Jun

I have heard people quote pre-war values of dinars being $3US+ Where exactly does this come from?
This is history, as recorded by the Iraq Central Bank. The exchange rate given at best was 10 ID to $1US or 10c a piece. That was way back in 1991.

Since 1995, the exchange rate has been in the same ball-park as it is now, with the exception of the blip in 2003, during the invasion, where the dinar still only fell to around half of its current value.

If we are all expecting, or rather hoping the value of the dinar will rebound to its pre-war levels, I have news... its already worth more than it has been since 1997!

Please disprove me. I have invested in this venture too. From where I am sitting, I am still optimistic that the dinar will steadily climb, once major reconstruction and international trade is established, but as for a huge windfall... seems to me now that there was never one to be made.

-- July 13, 2006 3:27 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Zero Lop or Zero Lopping the Dinar Analysis
13/07/2006

Both Russia and Afghanistan are countries who have zero lopped their currency.

It has little in common to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop. Iraq has already printed and established a single national currency, with secure features and knows exactly how much is in circulation. The Dinar denominations are already designed to carry high or low values without carrying around sacks of money. It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals.

If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way.

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677

-- July 13, 2006 8:11 PM ∞

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Forest wrote:

Repost from the NID forum:

A LOT OF PEOPLE TEND TO THINK THAT THE DINAR WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME. THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A “TRANSITIONAL CURRENCY”. PEOPLE SAY “WELL THEY NEED TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS SO THAT IT WILL BE CREDIBLE AND FORIEGN INSTITUTIONS WILL WANT TO BUSINESS WITH THEM” OR “IT WOULD COST TOO MUCH TO INTRODUCE NEW NOTES” AND SO ON…. I CALL THIS “ DINAR DENIAL”.
TO VENTURE DEEPER INTO WHAT EXACTLY I’M TALKING ABOUT LET US REWINDE BACK TO JULY 7, 2003. WHERE BREMER FORESHADOWED WHAT WILL COME OF THE CURRENCY….BREMER ANNOUNCES IRAQ'S 2003 NATIONAL
BUDGET, CURRENCY CHANGES
Date: July 7, 2003
The administrator for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, Paul Bremer, outlined in an address to the Iraqi people July 7 the key spending priorities for the Iraqi national budget over the next six months. These include commitments to improve the water, electrical, public health and telecommunications systems.
"For the first time in 12 years, all of Iraq will again use one set of banknotes," he said, signaling greater economic efficiencies.
Following are the complete text of Ambassador Bremer's July 7 announcements related to the Iraqi economy, answers to frequently asked questions about the new Iraqi currency, and a fact sheet:
Mesaa al khair [Good evening].
I am Paul Bremer, Administrator for the Coalition Provisional Authority.
My number one priority remains, as always, security: providing the security which Iraq needs in order to rebuild. Those who reject progress in Iraq know that they are losing. They are now targeting you and the basic services like water and electricity which you need. If you have information about these renegades, you should tell a coalition military or civilian person. We have already hit them hard. And we will defeat them.
Our second priority is to get the economy going again so that we can create jobs for you. Here , I have a couple of important announcements on the economy.
We have not designed a new currency for Iraq. Only a sovereign Iraqi government could take that decision. So we have taken the designs from the former national dinar (the "Swiss" dinar). But the new notes will be impossible to confuse with the "Swiss" dinar, as both the colors and the denominations will be different. Let me show you an example [show slide]. The new dinars will be printed in a full range of denominations: in 50s; 250s; 1,000s; 5,000s; 10,000s; and 25,000s. They will be higher quality and last longer. They will be very hard to forge, and thus be notes in which all Iraqis can be confident.

Together, these two new developments underline that the coalition, working closely with Iraqis at all levels, is determined to improve the economy of this country, and the lives of all its citizens.
Shakran [Thank you].
On July 7, 2003, the Coalition Provisional Authority released the following responses to frequently asked questions regarding the transition to a new Iraqi banknote:
THE NEW IRAQI BANKNOTES -- QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
What's happening?
New Iraqi banknotes will be introduced on October 15. The normal Iraqi dinars ("print dinars") in circulation in most of Iraq, and the former national dinars ("Swiss dinars") in circulation in parts of Northern Iraq, will be exchanged for this "new Iraqi Dinar".
When is this happening?
The new notes will be ready on October 15.
What happens between now and then?
Nothing. You should continue to use existing banknotes. They continue to have the same value and the same validity. From October 15 until the exchange period ends on January 15, you can use either the current or the new banknotes.
Should I change all my money now into another currency?
No. Your normal Iraqi ("print") dinars will be exchanged directly into new Iraqi dinars at a rate of one to one. Former national ("Swiss") dinars in use in parts of Northern Iraq will be exchanged at a rate of 150 new dinars to one "Swiss" dinar. We are fixing these rates now so that you need not worry.
Where will I have to go to change my money?
To designated exchange points, which will include the branches of the Rafidain and Rasheed banks.
Will I have to change my money immediately after the exchange begins?
No. There will be three months to make the exchange. Throughout the exchange period, both normal ("print") dinars, former national ("Swiss") dinars, and new dinars will be accepted as legal tender.
Won't the value of Iraqi dinars drop between now and October 15, as measured against, say, the dollar?
There is no reason for this to happen. This will not be a new currency, but simply new banknotes.
How will I know when the new notes are ready?
They will be ready on October 15. Announcements will be made in a similar way to this announcement, i.e. by radio, television, newspaper, poster and leaflet.
You're already running out of Iraqi dinars. Won't there be a mad rush to get the new ones?
No. There will be no shortage of the new dinars. And they will be available in many more denominations than are in circulation now.
Why don't you just print more normal Iraqi ("print") dinars?
Because their quality is poor, they don't last. They are also hard to use because of the lack of different denominations. And it's time that the new unified Iraq had one set of banknotes, and notes without the head of Saddam Hussein.
Can I keep dollars if I want to?
Absolutely. In the new free Iraq, you can hold whatever currency you want. But the new dinar will be the official banknotes for the whole of Iraq, from Dohuk to Basra.
Is the coalition trying to take over the Iraqi economy?
Absolutely not. That is why we are introducing new banknotes, based on the original Iraqi dinar design.
Do I really need to change my notes? Won't the new Iraqi government change the design again anyway?
Yes, you should change all your current dinars when the time comes. After the changeover period, the normal Iraqi ("print") dinars, and former national ("Swiss") dinars will no longer be valid. Once there have been national elections, and there is a new Iraqi Government, the new Government may introduce new notes, or a new currency. But this will be further down the line.
Do I need to withdraw all my money from the bank?
No, money held in the banks will be automatically converted for you.
Below is a fact sheet about the new Iraqi dinar that will replace aging Iraqi banknotes beginning October 2003:
FACT SHEET ABOUT NEW IRAQI BANKNOTES
In close consultation with financial experts from Iraq and the international community, a new series of Iraqi banknotes will be introduced from 15 October. These new notes will address problems like the shortage of 250-dinar notes and the poor quality of the notes in circulation.
Some key facts about these banknotes:
The new notes will unify the currency across all of Iraq. Once the exchange of notes has been completed, these notes will be the official banknotes for the entire country.
The official conversion rates will be as follows:
The new banknotes will be available from 15 October 2003.
Official exchange locations will be announced before 15 October. These will include branches of the Rasheed and Rafidain banks.
Exchange will be possible over a three-month period, from 15 October to 15 January. There is no need for people to exchange their notes as soon as the exchange begins.
People who now hold money in bank accounts will not need to withdraw this money to exchange. All bank accounts will be automatically converted to new notes at the official rate.
The new banknotes will look very similar to the former national ("Swiss") dinar notes that were used throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and are still used in some Northern areas.
-- The new banknotes will have a number of advantages over normal Iraqi ("print") dinars:
-- They will be much better protected against counterfeiting.
-- They will be much more durable and suffer less "wear and tear."
-- They will have many more denominations, so they will be much more convenient for people to use.
The new currency will be fully convertible into other, non-Iraqi currencies -- including the dollar -- at the prevailing market rate.
NOW THEN AFTER READING ALL THIS WHAT DID YOU PICK UP ON? I PICKED UP ON…
“Once there have been national elections, and there is a new Iraqi Government, the new Government may introduce new notes, or a new currency. But this will be further down the line.”
THIS COULD HAPPEN AFTER JANUARY ELECTIONS OR AFTER THE NEXT. ANYONE WHO KNOWS VALUATION OF CURRENCY KNOWS THAT IF THE DINAR WERE TO GAIN VALUE THEY WOULD HAVE TO INTRODUCE LOWER DEMONIATIONS, AS WE HAVE SEEN HERE LATELY.

IF THIS CHANGE OCCURES IN IRAQ AS IT DID LAST TIME THEN YOU WILL BE STUCK WITH WALL PAPER. THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM I SEEN EARLY ON… BANK ACCOUNTS AS WE SEE HERE…
“Do I need to withdraw all my money from the bank?
No, money held in the banks will be automatically converted for you.”
SO A BANK ACCOUNT IS A HEDGE. HARD CURRENCY GIVES THE SENSE OF SECUREITY ONLY IN THE FACT THAT IT IS TANGIBLE… NOTHING MORE.
THERE IS ALSO A BELIEF THAT BREMER SAID THAT IT WOULD BE RELEASED ON THE WORLD MARKET, THAT’S A PHALACY WHAT BREMER SAID WAS “The new currency will be fully convertible into other, non-Iraqi currencies -- including the dollar -- at the prevailing market rate.” THIS COULD MEAN JUST IN IRAQ AS WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE CBI CURRENTLY HOLDS OTHER CURRENCY RESERVES SUCH AS DOLLAR, YEN, AND SO ON.
SO THE “PUT IT IN A SHOE BOX AND FORGET ABOUT IT” THEORY COULD NEVER BE MORE WRONG. THE INFLATIONAY NOTES THAT YOU ARE LEFT WITH HAVE BEEN ALREADY PAIED FOR BY SOMEONE ELSE AND IRAQ RECEIVED THE MONEY FOR IT, MAYBE NOT AS MUCH AS YOU PAIED, BUT DEFINATLY A GOOD CHUNK.
NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THE NOTES OR THE CURRENCY WILL CHANGE FOR SURE, BUT THIS DOCUMENT DOES PROVIDE A LITTLE INFO.

Comment by Forest Gump at March 13, 2005 07:09 AM | Permalink
TOO THE WRITER KNOWN AS GUMP!

-- July 13, 2006 9:22 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Nelly B,

I have been looking at your recent post about the value of the Dinar. I agree that when we invaded the dinar wasn't worth $.31/1 ID.

I do believe that the devaluation of the Dinar from 1991 to 2002 was because of the UN sanctions put in place. Every year that they were in place, it brought the Dinar lower and lower until we invaded and it crashed.

As far as being able to trade our ID for a possible new currency... your guess would be as good as anyone, as what will take place. A possible trip to the Middle East may be in all of our futures!

Outlaw

-- July 13, 2006 9:42 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

For those of you who are still in the buying market for dinars; I used to use safedinar.com for my buying. Their prices have become a little high lately. Occasionally I would buy a few off Ebay in low priced auctions. I recently came across 1 seller from Jordan who has become a pretty reliable seller for low denomination bills 250's, 500) at very low prices. His name is Eyad.. His auction ID is randaghaith. I felt a little suspicious at first sending bank money orders to Jordan, but my orders have come in fast with no hang ups. I was burned a couple of times on ebay by sellers "persian_mart" (who never sent the product after payment) and another unnamed ebayer who decided to send out Saddam dinars to see if I would notice. So.. if you're new to the game or looking for reliabilty try this.. safedinar.com is always good too, but watch you prices.

Funny story though.. I wanted to buy 2 million dinars in 250 denominations. When I looked up the shipping I was a little suprised at how high it would be. I almost fogot the physical size of 8000 dinar notes. It would take ruffly 8 fedx boxes to send something that size. Perhaps I'll stick to 25000 denominations. :) Good luck on your buying. Let me know if anyone else has cheap reliable sellers.

-- July 13, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hi been gone with the wind, new pad, cool, have been reading back a bit, and concluded that I can take another weeks vacation.

Were back in speculation, and wait.

Forest, that was a darn good post you wrote, but I must say, it is a very good and factual article from very very long time back.

Time have a tendency to showel things around.

If a dignitary in a high position say -"Absolutely not"
or -" Definitely yes". He might even say the famous -"read my lips" , but when faced with reality a couple of years down the road, he might not even be in charge or in a positon to decide for or against his deep wishes.

Since that article, the Iraqis have themselves taken over the rudder, and even though economical and financial principles stay the same, the decision to change or let things stay the same, the yes or no sayers are not our guys in black suits, and GI's covering the entrances.

Time has moved on.

We have different circumstances, and a complete different world counting only a few years back.

I'm having some thoughts on another subject here.

It might not be a socially acceptable idea that we are doing the right thing with regards to terrorism, but when faced with few options the only workable concept can never be a socially acceptable thing.

Let me take you to the annals of history to get show my point.

In the beginning of WW2, Brittain was under heavy attack from Germany, it's Luftwaffe and the U-boats was wreaking havoc and Brittain was close to it's knees.

Especially important was to get air superiority if an invasion of the Brittish island could be accomplished.

The Germans was right on target, attacking Brittish airfields, bombing anything that had to do with Brittish airpower.

It came to a point where Brittains airpower was down to only a few airplanes, and a handful of very very tired pilots.

In that moment of crisis, Churchill, knowing Hitlers mind, ordered nightbombing of Berlin.

Up to this point of the war, civilian bombing had taken place, but was frown upon.

Hitler got one of his fits, and ordered luftwaffe to start bombing London.

The Brits, got it's needed brake, and could now work on building up its airforce, while the Luftwaffe was bombing London.

Winston Churchil outsmarted Hitler, but got London bombed, with terrible causalties, but the Brittish island was saved.

Until his death, Winston C. never discussed this issue. He didnt even mentioned in his memoirs.

Now, to the point, would it have been socially acceptable for Winston Churchil to stand up during the London blitz, and bragged about how he saved England?

The fact is, by doing exactly what he did, he DID save England.

When it comes to terrorism, I must say, the plan right now, exactly as it is done, is a hell of a smart and functioning plan.

I keep reading each day how in Afghanistan, they get 35 of the terrorists, next day another 23, next day 45 and so on, they even sued for peace a couple of weeks back, but got none.

The special forces, operating there, I dont care if anyone calls them heroes or murder inc. they take care of business.

Iraq insurgency have fallen, internal ethnic warfare has been on the rise, but you have to look closely and realize that that is two different things.

The Iraq insurgency, have been bleeding and bleeding and bleeding. Let them bleed.

It might not be a socially acceptable idea, but it's a darn good plan.

The closer to the heart (Iran)things are gettng the more desperate those guys are getting, they know their days are numbered, and like a true psychotic, wants to take as many as possible with them when they go, so they're going nuclear.

The only way to deal with this is straight head on, and peace movements while having right in the idea, are so endlessly wrong in letting the beast have the world.

Some might find it rewarding to play psychologist and "understand" the burgler, coming into your home, really wants to find out about his childhood, unlucky ways, and misfortune, and can go in the front of a demonstration, demanding criminals right.

They want to make it a socially acceptable position that the criminal is actually the victim.

Enough feebleminded people will actually buy into that idea, and start accusing , the justice system, lawyers, lawmakers, and lobby hard in media for the criminals rights.

US right now, have slid into a halfhearted idea that terrorism is not as real for them as it was only a couple of years back, while the towers was still smoldering.

The means and actions that must be taken against terrorists, can never be socially acceptable. Becaue it involves a lot of blood, but we will survive, and we will win only by doing it.

It's a like it or not situation.

London is burning, like it or not, but England is saved.

If you are upset over London, ok go ahead, be upset.

-- July 13, 2006 10:52 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Okie,Sara,

Thanks for the comments. And I do believe that many of the IOU's are held by the U.S. not to mention the various U.S. based Contractors.

Nelly B,

Strictly my opinions and not quoting anyone. I have been a long term investor (since Mar 04) and started reading TB not long after that. I also have a good memory for facts and figures, especially ones that affect this investment.

Note: I am "NOT" the Lance that posts on other sites, nor am I the dir*bal* that posted on this site way back when as Lance (very abusive and nasty posts for those that remember). I only did my first post on TB a couple of weeks ago after "years" of just being a spectator. And of course I managed to make some stupid comments on the first one. Duh!!!! Also I will only post on TB, as the others give me gas!!!!

I love this site and appreciate the thoughtfull and often entertaining posts by all. All of you keep this a fun place to be.

Thanks to all,

-- July 14, 2006 12:24 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Nelly B,Outlaw,

My post stating "Street Value" of .31 cents to 1 Saddam ID is reflected in the below link (posted Nov 05)plus numerous others that stated the same thing. Took me quite a while to find this site again!!
I track this stuff. Street Value was never a valid exchange/ISX price. But was instead the propped-up price of the Saddam regime. I never meant for it to be taken as the international exchange rate, but for what it was, it's value on the streets of Baghdad for purchasing commodities/items prior to the war. But it does reflect what the common Iraqi buying power internal to Iraq was pre-war. So respectively their purchasing power has gone from 1 ID=$0.31 to 14 NID=$0.01. Quite a drop. And I believe that what ever is being discussed it involves increasing their purchasing power to near pre-war levels.

http://www.mosler.org/wwwboard/messages/2995.shtml

As for to $3.00+ value of the dinar in the olden days, there must be a thousand sites out there that will tell you all about the history/value of the Dinar. Try the old CPA website, I believe that it had info about this.

Happy investing!!!!

-- July 14, 2006 12:58 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

From the link in Lance's last post, the below is stated:

"In case of Iraq, do not look at the value of Old Iraqi Dinar of USD: 3.25 before 1991 war, Old Iraqi Dinar was grossly damaged during the period from 1991 to 2003 by Saddam s currency miss-management, as of today, now you have to simply look for the street value of Old ID, before the US attack in April-2003, this will be the correct street value, the maximum value the NID can achieve.

Hence Iraq currency can only recover to the extent of pre-war value of 2003 that too under normal economic conditions."

So, what was the street value of the ID before the attack in 2003?

I know there is a difference, but the CIB gives the official exchange rate in 2002 as 1957 ID / $1 US. So by the official rates, the value is already 32% higher than it was in 2002. I just can't see that there is a huge rebound to be had.

-- July 14, 2006 2:22 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Let the construction begin.....
At some point in time they're going to need a more valuable Dinar to pay for these goodies...

Energy - Oil & Gas

Iraq to build oil refinery in Kurdistan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARBIL, Iraq, 13 July 2006 (UPI)
Iraq's oil minister announced plans Wednesday to build Iraq's largest oil refinery in the western region of Kurdistan.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-14-07-2006&article=9340

-- July 14, 2006 8:50 AM ∞

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SGT AT SPOD wrote:

Everyone,

I have been called back for TDY for at least the next 90 days (indefinite). I will continue to check the site as I can, and when information pertinent presents itself, I'll let you guys know...

Take care...

I am "SGT AT SPOD"

-- July 14, 2006 9:48 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

SGT AT SPOD,

I have been told by a friend in the Green Zone that it is a mess out side the wire... Be careful my friend.

Outlaw

-- July 14, 2006 10:06 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Nelly B.....

This is the best info I can find on the pre-war value of the Dinar. This article indicates the Dinar was 6.7 to the $ which would be around fifteen US cents. I think during that time frame it depended on which part of the country you were in and if you had regular Dinars or the Swiss Dinars.

The former national ("Swiss") dinar notes were used
throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and this national currency still circulated in the
Kurdish north. The bills nicknamed "Swiss dinar" either because of their relative
stability and strength or because it was made in Europe, depending on the account.
The Swiss dinar was trading at about 6.7 to the dollar in early July 2003.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/dinar_history.html

-- July 14, 2006 11:10 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR THEM TO ZERO LOP TODAY

Roger wrote:

Time has a tendency to shovel things around.

If a dignitary in a high position says -"Absolutely not" or -" Definitely yes". He might even say the famous -"read my lips" , but when faced with reality a couple of years down the road, he might not even be in charge or in a positon to decide for or against his deep wishes.

Since that article, the Iraqis have themselves taken over the rudder, and even though economical and financial principles stay the same, the decision to change or let things stay the same, the yes or no sayers are not our guys in black suits, and GI's covering the entrances.

Time has moved on.

===end of quote===

Roger, I agree.

TIME HAS MOVED ON..

So much of what is discussed on the board has been old info rehashed a million times over...

I was hoping the article I posted which was dated July 13th.. that is YESTERDAY:

Zero Lop or Zero Lopping the Dinar Analysis
13/07/2006

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677

... Would help move us into discussion which is more up to date and relevant.

It said:

Russia and Afghanistan are often compared to the Iraqi Dinar...

However, they have little in common to the Iraqi Dinar and the speculation about the zero lop.

The article states, "Iraq has already printed and established a single national currency, with secure features and knows exactly how much is in circulation."

Even though WE were wondering and speculating about how much is is circulation, it is known by Iraq.

The conclusion of the article I thought very important when it said:

"It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way."

NO ONE seems to have addressed this.. which I felt was up to date and relevant information which is not based on some old and outdated model, and not a rehash of old information that has been around for years and years and which has not changed one bit to take into account the new realities and current stated economic goals in Iraq.

I would like to point out that it says it MAKES NO SENSE.. for them to zero lop. That is something I think should be seen as IMPORTANT!!!

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 12:35 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

SGT AT SPOD.....

Take care....keep your head down....and get back on the Forum ASAP so we'll know all is well.

-- July 14, 2006 12:56 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Sara,

You bring up my point in a more elegant way that I could ever express myself.

1. A lot of old info from years back is still circulating , and sometimes the relevancy of it is not current.

(who gives a rats ass about a long discussion regarding the Dinar value during the Brittish Rule)

2. It makes no sense zero looping.

However, I can sense two sources of information , the for and against.

The for, is the official statements and announcements from Iraq official sources, might it be an interview or article, but it seems to come from Iraq official sources, as far as I can judge.

The against, seem to come from free thinkers outside of the Iraq official system.

So far I have not seen any indication from the official sources that they start waivering or have doubts, or second thoughts about the zero looping.

-- July 14, 2006 1:39 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

SGT AT SPOD;

You are in my prayers. :)
God keep you and yours safe.

Roger;

You say the Zero Lop comes from Iraqi sources. The ONLY thing I have seen in the news is a SUGGESTION, one which is of LONG STANDING and not a new suggestion (and thus not seized upon the first time it was suggested, which may indicate it isn't a GREAT suggestion) that this MIGHT be a course of action to take.
Quote:

Iraq plans to revalue currency (07/07/06)

Iraq is CONSIDERING redenominating the dinar, printing new banknotes to remove inflation-generated zeros from its currency, THE FINANCE MINISTER SAID yesterday.

Senior government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dinar equal to 1,000 current dinars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the US dollar.

Asked about such a SUGGESTION in an interview on Arabiya television, Finance Minister Bayan Jabor said: "This is the ministry's SUGGESTION to the central bank. WE THINK in the long term it will be for the benefit of Iraq."

http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.org/idp/news/new1297.htm

This is NOT stated Iraqi policy nor has it been adopted.

When you say, quote:

"So far I have not seen any indication from the official sources that they start waivering or have doubts, or second thoughts about the zero lopping."

I do not see that as being substantiated from the news. All I have seen is a SUGGESTION by the finance minister to the Central Bank of Iraq.

Now, last time I checked, the person actually making the decision to zero lop or not was not the one making the SUGGESTION - that is the finance minister.. but those to whom he suggested this - namely the CBI. When we hear from THEM, the ones who have the actual power to zero lop within the CBI, that they are adopting this suggestion of zero lop, then I may take this SUGGESTION much more seriously. Until then, it is merely a recommendation which has received widespread media coverage.

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 3:26 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

This forum has such a wide range of thoughts on different subjects, and people looking for answers, it might do us good to follow the directions my Grandma gave to me when I was just a kid......

"If you want expert advice....Pray!"

Considering the subject we're discussing it might help us.....

Com'on Dinar!!!

-- July 14, 2006 3:29 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

A few posts ago, I stated I am moving forward with buying $2,000,000 Dinar. My other purchases have all been uncirculated currency. I am considering the purchase of circulated bills. Should I continue to purchase only uncirculated bills or should I step out and buy currency that has been circulated? Does it make a difference?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 14, 2006 4:10 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Sara, Time has moved on yes, but the infomation that you are stating as posted on 13/7/06:
http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=1677 and also directly copied from here:
http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/zero_lop_analysis.html was just rehashed from here:
http://www.iraqiwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Zero_lopping_argument
If you look at the comments on that page AFTER the article, there are dates of October 2004 and onwards. This is not new news.
Also note in the text is states that the lowest denomination of the dinar is 25. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is 50, right? this would mean the text is also inaccurate.

The most recent significant news is the Iraq Finance Minister suggesting a 3 zero lop to realign the the dinar close to the dollar. That is what is important.

Yes we should deabte whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will.

-- July 14, 2006 4:53 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Rob N:

This is just my own opinion and I am just like you, looking from the outside, in.

It is just the condition of the currency that is important. Only worry about the 'integrity' of the circulated notes if they are worn, damaged, degraded to a state in which they would not be accepted by a bank. Other than that, I see no difference between circulated or uncirculated notes.

-- July 14, 2006 5:03 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

Nelly B.....

This is the best info I can find on the pre-war value of the Dinar. This article indicates the Dinar was 6.7 to the $ which would be around fifteen US cents. I think during that time frame it depended on which part of the country you were in and if you had regular Dinars or the Swiss Dinars.

The former national ("Swiss") dinar notes were used
throughout Iraq until the early 1990's, and this national currency still circulated in the
Kurdish north. The bills nicknamed "Swiss dinar" either because of their relative
stability and strength or because it was made in Europe, depending on the account.
The Swiss dinar was trading at about 6.7 to the dollar in early July 2003.

http://www.dinar-into-dollars.com/dinar_history.html
- - - - -
Thanks for the input, Okie.

On that very same page, the following is stated:

"The Iraqi dinar was worth $US 3.20 before the United Nations embargo that followed
Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait. By August 2002 it was trading at just below 2000 to
the US dollar, and by mid-April 2003 it had slipped to anywhere between 3500 and
4000 against the dollar. In July 2003 one US dollar equaled about 1,500 Iraqi dinars

This new Iraqi currency was made available to the Iraqi people on 15 October 2003.
They replaced the existing Iraqi "print" dinars at parity: one new Iraqi dinar was worth
the same as one "print" dinar. The new dinar replaced the "Swiss" dinar at the rate of
150 new dinars to one Swiss dinar. These different rates reflected the different
prices, expressed in local currency, in different parts of the country."

End of quote.

This swiss dinars traded at 6.7 to $1 were valued at 150 x the rate of 1 ID. The NID has replaced both the ID and the Swiss dinar. This does not make the NID worth the same rate as the swiss dinar was.

During 1990 to 2003, Saddam had trillions of additional currency printed, as this was the only way to pay the troops returning from the Kuwait incurrsion. This is the major reason the dinars (and the replacement NIDs) were so devalued and remain so. When the NIDS were issued, they were swapped out for the old IDs at a 1:1 rate and for the swiss dinars at a 150:1 rate. The values were not realigned to a now (October 2003) reduced amount of currency in circulation. This is why the value remains so low.
Hmmm. Almost talked myself into thinking a revalue could happen there...

-- July 14, 2006 6:20 PM ∞

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bert wrote:

sara -i think the 25 coins where stolen, still in the trucks.they never made it out.

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

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bert wrote:

sara -i think the 25 coins where stolen, still in the trucks.they never made it out.i think?

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Our dreams are in our grasp.

Iraqi Dinar zero loop, we got our gasp.

No one knows what's gonna play.

Best suggestion is to pray.

The punchline sucks cause I dont know what rhimes with gasp.

-- July 14, 2006 8:31 PM ∞

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Anonymous wrote:

i guess once wasn't enough.sorry for the double post.

-- July 14, 2006 8:32 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hey, do a better one

-- July 14, 2006 8:34 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Anynomous, if you want to stay anynomous, dont post as Bert, and come back as Anynomous, it kind of blows your cover.

-- July 14, 2006 8:36 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hah, remeber some time ago, we had it up on discussion the scenario that if the zero loop takes place, and it's pegged to the Dollar, but still it's a non flowing, non exchangeable currency on the international currency exchange market.

So that would leave us with a bunch of Dinars that can only be exchanged in Iraq, if we want to get Dollars for it.

There was a mention, that if that happened, the Dinar dealers would probably get us for the second time and set something up.

Right on, here it is, the first Dinar Dollar exchange just poped up (pooped up), for a cost of 5% of total value, that seems to be the deal.

Ok fair and square, so at least that aspect is covered. 5% dont seem to be too far away from banks buying and selling price for a bank traded currency, so I would'nt take a puke on the Dinar dealers doing it.

At least there is one outlet, and you can bet there will be more popping up as time goes by.

-- July 14, 2006 9:30 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

sorry, its at:

www.exchangeyourdinar.com

-- July 14, 2006 10:28 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

What is everyone's general opinion of the zero lopping...do you think it will happen or not...why or why not?

-- July 14, 2006 11:24 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Bob;

The arguments AGAINST a zero lop are still very credible and solid so far as I can tell. I still think it makes no sense to do a zero lop - for a variety of reasons - this being very important as one of them:

"It makes no sense for them to change the face of the currency, when they are talking about increasing the value to fit their economic goals. If Iraq did zero lopping off the structure of the bills, they would overlap denominations that already exist. This does not make sense or fit the stated goals with the Iraqi Dinar. It seems that a zero lop, or zero lopping would not occur with the denominations of the Dinar, but by increasing it's value with a revalue that would benefit their economy and their poor in a positive way."

However, I think in time the correct version of what is going to happen will be proven by world events. After all, as I think I said before.. it isn't the minister of finance's call on whether it happens, but those to whom he SUGGESTED the zero lop.. and their verdict has not yet been given.

Sara.

-- July 14, 2006 11:51 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Sara,

Thank you for the reply. I agree....I cant figure in my mind how a zero lopping could possibly bolster their economy nor how it would fit into their economic goals....I hope that the CBI and the World Bank think like we do...and most definitely the world events will be a HUGE factor.....the Middle East is total chaos right now....if it isnt one thing....it is another over here......We think we are getting Iraq straightened out and then the Hezbollah and Israel are going at it...then the Syrians want to get involved.....then the Iranians threaten Israel if they retaliate against Syria....what a mess.

-- July 15, 2006 1:28 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Bob;

I agree. I cannot see zero lopping bolstering their economy or fitting with the economic goals which they have recently stated. I think Nelly B missed the point. As the article I quoted pointed out (in a statement which becomes increasingly more relevant as time goes by), a zero lop goes AGAINST the current, up to date, and stated goals of the government of Iraq!!

And, as turtle pointed out in his post (below), one important reason not to zero lop is that it would make the Iraqis very upset with their politicians.. And committing political suicide is not often a normal and rational move for most politicians..

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/04/iraqi_dinar_dis_3.html#121995

Quote: "That folks would not just be financial crazy but social suicide in this country right now."

I think that opinion has a lot of validity.. as well as his comment in the post about PERCEPTION being everything in Arab countries.

Nelly B also said, "The most recent significant news is the Iraq Finance Minister SUGGESTING a 3 zero lop to realign the the dinar close to the dollar. That is what is important."

But, as I stated recently, I think it is merely a SUGGESTION or recommendation, though one which has received widespread media coverage. This is like when Rep. Murtha repeatedly SUGGESTED the US pull all the troops out of Iraq.. until they voted on it and defeated the measure.

Quote:

House Rejects Timetable for Iraq Pullout
Jun 16, 2006 By LIZ SIDOTI

WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Friday rejected a timetable for pulling U.S. forces out of Iraq after a ferociously partisan debate, forcing lawmakers in both parties to go on record on a major issue in re-election campaigns nationwide.

A day after the Senate took the same position against troop withdrawal, the GOP-led House voted 256-153 to approve a nonbinding resolution that says an "arbitrary date for the withdrawal or redeployment" of American forces is not in the national interest.

Republicans and Democrats alike explained the decision, as each side saw it, that confronts voters.

"The choice for the American people is clear; don't run in the face of danger, victory will be our exit strategy," Rep. Mike Conaway, R-Texas, said.

Countered Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.: "It's not a matter of stay the course. It's a matter of change direction."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060616/D8I9HBD00.html

Rep. John Murtha may have SUGGESTED in very strong tones that the troops should be pulled out, but it is only important what was eventually ADOPTED, not what he suggested. In a similar manner, in the case of zero lopping, there is a HUGE difference between a SUGGESTION (even by the finance minister) and the actual adopting of that suggestion, don't you think?

Let me put it this way... let's change the players in that recent news story (above) and see how it sounds..

====My fictitious quote for illustration=====

The US is CONSIDERING redenominating the dollar, printing new banknotes to remove inflation-generated zeros from its currency, Rep Murtha said yesterday.

Senior Bush government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dollar equal to 1,000 current dollars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the Euro.

Asked about such a SUGGESTION in an interview on US television, Rep. John Murtha said: "This is the ministry's SUGGESTION to the central bank. WE THINK in the long term it will be for the benefit of the US."

====end of My fictitious quote for illustration===

How much credibility would you give to the suggestion by Rep. Murtha in this story? Doesn't it depend on WHO has the POWER to zero lop? And what are those with the power to actually DO a zero lop saying? The "Senior government and central bank officials" are being polite and saying.. "Um... yes.. well...", (quote): "the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME.." Kind of like you would expect the Bush administration to react to the above fictitious Rep. Murtha proposal. They would not wish to offend him by flat out saying it is not a suggestion they wish to entertain, but on the other hand, that may not exactly be the kind of suggestion they are really keen on adopting. This was a POLITE reply.. but do note that they were NOT saying.. "Yes, the Holy Grail!! THIS is the suggestion of the century! We will implement a zero lop and it will solve all our difficulties!! What a brilliant suggestion!! We will ADOPT it!!" Were they? That WASN'T the general reply of the CBI, was it?

When Nelly B suggests: "we should deabte whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will."

I see it much as the "ferociously partisan debate" over the troops leaving... it may be a heated debate, but it will not accomplish much in the end and is a waste of time and effort. Though the Democrats may debate the issue and bring it up every two minutes to try and force debate on the point over and over and over.. I think it wiser to wait to see how this pans out with the real decision makers rather than spend useless time discussing bridges which we have not yet even seen (a zero lop)... and then theoretically crossing them and building castles in the sand on the other side.

Sara.

-- July 15, 2006 2:29 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Just imagine what it will do for our economy if the dinar revalues without zero lopping...depending on the revalue....imagine the revenue that will generate for the big companies that invested....and the increased consumer spending it will create for us investors that have bought the currency.

-- July 15, 2006 3:49 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Sara Madgid wrote:

When Nelly B suggests: "we should debate whether or not this could or will happen, but we should also anticipate the effects on our investments if it DOES happen. I believe it will."

I see it much as the "ferociously partisan debate" over the troops leaving... it may be a "heated debate, but it will not accomplish much in the end and is a waste of time and effort. Though the Democrats may debate the issue and bring it up every two minutes to try and force debate on the point over and over and over.. I think it wiser to wait to see how this pans out with the real decision makers rather than spend useless time discussing bridges which we have not yet even seen (a zero lop)... and then theoretically crossing them and building castles in the sand on the other side.

Sara.
- - - -

"Sigh" I like to be prepared for real possibilities, based on real events (the suggested proposal of zero lop by finance minister) Most of the talk here seems to be endlessly optimistic about the possibilty of a revalue to a hugely inflated amount. Is that any less of a waste of time and effort?

Also if the following were to happen as per Sara's mock scenario:

"Senior Bush government and central bank officials have said the PROPOSAL has been under consideration FOR SOME TIME to make one new dollar equal to 1,000 current dollars, a move that would bring the currency closer to parity with the Euro"

That might hold some weight, if at the time it cost 1000 Dollars to buy one Euro! just as it now costs 1477 dinars to buy one Dollar.

At the present time, if the Dinar is zero lopped, it has little effect outside of Iraq. Wages and street prices would just be adjusted to the new values. To me it makes perfect sense that they would and could do this now, before major foreign investment takes place and the dinar is traded on the Foreign Exchange. Once it trades on the Forex, they can not carry out a zero lop or redenomination without having worldwide repercussions for those that hold the currency.

It makes no difference if the denominations of a new set of notes would overlap the current NIDs. The old notes would be exchanged at a bank at the correct rate for the new ones. (just as happened with the swap out of both ID's and Swiss dinars which had different values) There would obviously need to be a difference in apperance of the reprinted notes and during the transitional period between the two currencies being in circulation, the street-worth of the old currency would not be the same as the new currency, even if the face value was the same.

The cost of reprinting and redistribution (approx $150 - $200 million) of a new currency is not prohibitive to this happening. The cost of a redenomination after major investment and world trading in Iraq currency would be vastly more and would also destabilise the integrity of the currency and investor's confidence.

Yes, time has moved on, but he NID was only ever intended to be an interim currency. What has changed to change that fact?

Denying the possibility that the zero lop (with a newly denominated currency) could happen is akin to putting ones head in the sand. It is ignoring all the most critical indicators from the most influencial sources.

-- July 15, 2006 5:45 AM ∞

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old head wrote:

This is not going to please many people. I have been observing for a while and have drawn a conclusion. Holders of the physical Dinar in this country are going to be in for a shock. I saw currency exchanges in person in Vietnam. It happens and it happens very very quickly.... overnight. if there is a re-evaluation in the Dinar you can rest assured there will be a new note to take the place of the old one. And there will not be a whisper of it coming. People will line up and turn in old currency for new currency. Unless you are in that line you are going to lose. Bank accounts will re-value overnight and what once may have been 250,000 will be 250. no loss, no gain. Dreaming that 250.00 Dinar will instantly become $250,000 is just that, a dream. The people who stand to become millionares have already done so by selling Dinars to those with closets full of future wall paper. Sorry folks, there is no free lunch. No doubt that Iraq will prosper and become free and prosperous state due to the efforts of the Iraqi people and the dedication of our soldiers but comparing it to what happened in Kuwait is folly IMHO. My choice for an investment in the country would be to open an account in Iraq and deposit funds into that account. Forget them for twenty years and exchange them at retirement. Nelly B hit the nail on the head

old head

-- July 15, 2006 7:22 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

All we can do is wait and see.

-- July 15, 2006 9:32 AM ∞

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MissDinar wrote:

There will be NO zero lop, the dnar will have a internal increase initially say 1475 to 475. Then around the end of te month it will hit the forex at anyway between .68 - 1.12. Trust me were are going to be RICH

-- July 15, 2006 9:51 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

MissDinar...I love your way of thinking...however may I ask your basis on that?

-- July 15, 2006 10:10 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

For thousands of years Iraq has been a rich country just based on their water supplies and agriculture. Oil is a great addition to their wealth.

______________________________________

Cash cow recovers after years of turmoil


IRAQ’S economy is built on its vast oil reserves. Oil and crude materials, excluding fuel, make up 91 per cent of its exports. Livestock and food account for another 5 per cent of its revenues. Iraq’s industries also include textiles, pharmaceutical products, cement, steel and petrochemicals. Its agricultural sector produces wheat, barley, rice, vegetables, cotton and dates.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9072-2270655,00.html

-- July 15, 2006 10:49 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

A lot of good conversation related to the Pros and Cons about Iraq and our investment in their currency.

I think we’re overlooking a very a very positive fact regarding the current and future path of Iraq. The US, the richest and most powerful country on this planet and the next one over, has declared they want Iraq to be a bright and shining example of a Democratic style of Government in the Middle East. Contrary to the comments from the US liberal press and with help from some powerful friends, this goal of the US and our friends is actually making outstanding progress.

Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so.

-- July 15, 2006 10:53 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

old head & Miss Dinar.....

I enjoy reading both sides of thought on the dinar so keep them coming.....

My investment thinking is more like Miss Dinar....I think it will hit the market with a very good value....

-- July 15, 2006 11:08 AM ∞

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MissDinar wrote:

This is based on information I have from a source inside the ISX. He has been very accurate upto now with his facts. The bottom line is, we have all been in this for a long time, willing the reval to happen, but still we have people spending alot of time explaining why it cannot. It is going to happen so go with the flow and enjoy your money.

-- July 15, 2006 11:34 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Interesting info, MissDinar. Thanks for contributing it. :)

Okie;

You said:

"Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so."

Very good point! :)

I agree with Bob and think that we must wait and see. (We're all developing patience.)

Sara.

-- July 15, 2006 12:15 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

I have been in Bagram Afghanistan and have been outside the wire; have seen this country to include the capital Kabul; this is a very poor country at best. There is no way in the world that I can see Iraq like this.

-- July 15, 2006 1:14 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

THERE ARE CERTAIN TRUTHS THAT NEVER CHANGE

1. The Humanoid Species always does things for a reason
2. All things are first created by thought
3. Nothing lies within a vacuum as all things are connected

With that in mind allow me to think out loud here for a minute...
First, as a dinar investor I want you and I both to prosper from our adventure here..
With that said...let me point out a few things...

FACT: IRAN WAS THE PRIMARY INTELLEGENCE FEED THAT THE USA USED TO REMOVE SADDAM

FACT: THE US OF A DID WHAT IRAN COULD NOT DO IN 8 YEARS OF WAR WITH SADDAM

FACT: THE PRESENT IRANIAN REGIME BELIEVES STRONGLY IN THE 12 IMAN THEORY

FACT: THE PRESENT IRANIAN LEADERS BELIEVE THAT A MAJOR CATASTROPHIC EVENT RESULTING IN A LARGE LOSS OF LIFE AND DEVASTATION IS NEEDED IN ORDER FOR THE IMAN TO RETURN

FACT: THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT SEES NO ROAD BLOCK IN CAUSING THAT EVENT TO HAPPEN...AND THE SOONER THE BETTER...THEY ARE NOW BUILDING A PALACE FOR THE RETURN OF THE IMAM

FACT: THE IRANIAN RUSE OF FIGHTING OVER THE RIGHT TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR MATERIAL FOR ENERGY IS BEING USED AS THE CATALYST TO IGNITE AND UNIT THE ARAB WORLD

FACT: FOR OVER A YEAR NOW I HAVE POSTED THAT IRAN'S TOTAL INTENTION IS TO RE-UNITE THE OLD PERSIA INTO THE NEW PERSIAN EMPIRE...THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING SADDAM REMOVED...IT COULD NOT BE DONE WITH IRAQ

FACT: IRAN NOW HAS MORE INFLUENCE WITH THE IRAQI POPULATION OF SHIA THAT EVER BEFORE

FACT: SINCE THE OTTOMAN PERIOD, THE SUNNI HAVE BEEN IN CONTROL...EVEN DURING OCCUPATION OF THE BRITISH...NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME THE SHIA ARE IN CONTROL..

FACT: THE SUNNI HAVE FOR CENTURIES LOOKED DOWN ON THE SHIA AS IGNORANT, SUPERSTIOUS TRASH..

FACT: DURING MY POST I HAVE STATED, THAT IRAN WILL ATTEMPT TO DO IT BY THE FOLLOWING:
1. UNITE THE SHIA PEOPLE UNDER THE BANNER OF THE ISLAM FAITH
2. UNITE ALL OF THE ARAB PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES SURROUNDING IRAN AND IRAQ UNDER THE PRIDE OF BEING AN ARAB

FACT: THE HAMAS AND HEZBALAH ARE CONTROLLED BY THE IRAN REGIME

FACT: BOTH INCIDENTS NOW ON GOING WERE CONTROLLED AND INSTIGATED BY THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN HAS MADE THE STATEMENT WE WILL NOT STAND BY AN ALLOW DEMOCRACY TO STAND IN THE MIDDLE EAST

FACT: BOTH IRAQ AND LEBANON HAVE FLEDGING AND TODDLER STEPPING DEMOCRACIES

FACT: THE HAMAS AND HEZBALAH STARTED THE INCIDENTS AND BLAME ISRAEL FOR MAKING THEM DO IT

FACT: IRAN HAS DIRECT AND INDIRECT INFLUENCE WITHIN THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN HAS DIRECT CONTROL OVER SADR WHO HAS DIRECT CONTROL OVER THE MILITIA

FACT: THE MILITIA UNDER THE CONTROL OF SADR IS THE MAIN INSTIGATOR MURDER, ETHNIC CLEANSING,KIDNAPPINGS, DISRUPTION OF ECONOMIC SERVICES, DISRUPTION OF THE TRANSITION INTO A OPERATING IRAQI GOVERNMENT. SADR HAS BEEN AND IS ONE OF THE MAJOR ROAD BLOCKS TO A SMOOTHER TRANSITION...YET THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT WILL NOT REMOVE HIM...HE HAS BEEN GIVEN INDIRECT POWER BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF BACKBONE WITHIN THE PRESENT IRAQI GOVERNMENT

FACT: IRAN CONTROLS SADR WHO JUST MADE A STATEMENT THAT IRAQIS WOULD NOT ALLOW ISRAEL TO STRIKE LEBANON WITHOUT JOINING IN AND HELPING THEIR "ARAB BROTHERS"

FACT: SADR ALSO MADE IT CLEAR HE CONSIDERED AMERICA TO BE JUST AS GUILTY AS ISRAEL

FACT: SYRIA MADE THE STATEMENT WE WILL NOT ALLOW OUR ARAB BROTHERS TO FIGHT ALONE

FACT: IRAN MADE STATEMENT ATTACK SYRIA AND THE ENTIRE REGION OF ARABS WILL RESPOND..THUS MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO SPEAK FOR OTHER ARAB NATIONS...OTHER ARAB NATIONS REMAINED SILENT WHEN THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT STATED ISRAEL SHOULD BE REMOVE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH...IN THE ARAB CULTURE SILENCE IS A SIGN OF AGREEMENT...

FACT: AS OF TODAY ...SADR NOW HAS HIS CLERICS GIVING FIRE BRAND MESSAGES INCITING THE MILITAS AND SHIA PEOPLE TOWARD JOINING THE HEZBALAH,HAMAS AND ATTACKING THE COALITION FORCES

FACT: IRAN HAS NOW SENT OVER SOLDIERS TO FIGHT WITH THE HEZBALAH ESPECIALLY TO LAUNCH DRONES AND ROCKETS...SO IRAN HAS NOW BECOME DIRECTLY INVOLVED...

FACT: IRAN TIMED THIS FOR THE G-8 SUMMIT...TO DETRACT FROM THE NUCLEAR ISSUE

MY THOUGHTS: IRAN HAS STARTED THEIR MOVE TO UNITE THE ARAB PEOPLE AS ONE FIGHTING FORCE...THERE WILL BE OTHER MAJOR INCIDENTS COMING...THE MIDDLE EAST 2 YEARS FROM NOW WILL NOT BE AS YOU SEE IT TODAY...IRAN HAS NOW MOVED SOME OF THEIR PIECES ON THE BOARD TO STRENGHTEN THEIR POSITION IN CONTROLLING IRAQ...LOOK FOR A DIRECT OR INDIRECT PUSH ....THE BIG FIRE WORKS WILL START IN SPRING OF 2007...IRAQ MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE THIS TURMOIL IN ITS PRESENT GOVERNMENTAL STATE...IF THEY HAVE TO...THE IRAQ GOVERNMENT WILL TURN ON THE COALITION FORCES TO SAVE ITSELF...THIS WILL NOT BE A EASY DECISION BUT A RESONABLE ONE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE THE EXPANDING HATE FOR THE USA AND ISRAEL..

I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THE DINAR AND IT REVALUING...BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK THE DINAR SETS IN A VACUUM AND THE SITUATION IN LEBANON AND GAZA WILL HAVE NO AFFECT .......

I FEEL THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST AREA IS ON THE BRINK....IT CAN GO EITHER WAY....OUR ARM FORCES IN IRAQ IF NOT BY NOW...SHOULD BE ON HIGH ALERT...FOR I FEEL THEY ARE IN THE MOST EXTREME DANGER SINCE OUR FORCES LANDED THERE..IRAN AS I WRITE THIS IS DOING ITS LEVEL BEST TO IGNITE THE REGION EVEN MORE...THIS INTURN WILL INFLAME THE SHIA OF IRAQ...THUS START THE UNITING THE PERSIA OF OLD WITH "THE PERSIA OF TODAY"

-- July 15, 2006 1:23 PM ∞

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Turtle wrote:

In an old post someone had some rough numbers on current amount of NID on the market vs current amount of foreign currency held by the INB. If I remember right, they figured that if the dinar was pegged to the dollar based on the value of foreign money the NID would be worth $0.28. Can anyone find current numbers?

The last I heard the US government was the largest owner of NID. If that is true, the US government and the current administration have just as much to gain from seeing the NID skyrocket as we do. Imagine how beneficial it would be in an election year to pay off a large chunk of US debt, push oil/fuel prices down, and post another success in Iraq story. It may not happen, but I can place bets on what the government is pushing for. I doubt that pushing is limited to the Iraqi government either. I wonder how much influence the US has on World Bank decisions? Anyway, for us it is a dream, for them it breathes political life. I'm sure other nations involved would not mind either.

-- July 15, 2006 1:58 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,
Master piece. You set the pieces straight. Perhaps the old prophet Nostradamus was right, when he talked about the rise of the Blue Turban as the last big war.

-- July 15, 2006 2:04 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

old head & Miss Dinar.....

I enjoy reading both sides of thought on the dinar so keep them coming.....

My investment thinking is more like Miss Dinar....I think it will hit the market with a very good value....

-- July 15, 2006 11:08 AM

- - - - -
Okie, Miss Dinar, Sara: I wish I could share in your optimisim at the present time. I got into this venture around 4 months ago and bought a substantial amount more dinars just around a month ago, largely of the back of the 'info' Taxmama was saying at that time. Until just a few weeks ago, I was as optimistic as anyone and thought a zero lop was a crazy impossibility.

The reason for my change of heart (I still see my view as a realist, not a pessamist) is the undeniably worrying fact that the Iraqi Finance Minister is has proposed a zero lop. It makes sense to me to make this public knowledge if it is simply a proposal to change the denominations of currency. If there were to be a change in the dinar/dollar EXCHANGE RATE by a factor of 1000, a zero lop would be so way off the mark as to be unthinkable. surely the Iraqi Finance Minister has at the very least, a 'fair idea' of the direction the currency needs to go in?!

Consider this... If the information was leaked or 'broadcast' to the worldwide media that the exchange rate was suddenly going to change by a factor of 1000 I.E. a Dinar was shortly going to be worth 68cents, every man woman and child who has a buck to their name would swamp every Dinar seller on earth to buy the currency. Is that happening at this present time? I don't think so. Who's interests would it be in to release this information to the news? Certainly not Iraqs!

I agree the dinar will hit the market at a good value... the New currency will be around 1 Dinar to the Dollar, AFTER the zero lop!

-- July 15, 2006 2:11 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Okie wrote:

A lot of good conversation related to the Pros and Cons about Iraq and our investment in their currency.

I think we’re overlooking a very a very positive fact regarding the current and future path of Iraq. The US, the richest and most powerful country on this planet and the next one over, has declared they want Iraq to be a bright and shining example of a Democratic style of Government in the Middle East. Contrary to the comments from the US liberal press and with help from some powerful friends, this goal of the US and our friends is actually making outstanding progress.

Iraq is quickly getting ready to enter the world arena with a very different type of Government. Does anybody really think they will come into the world markets with a currency that has less value than Afganistan? I don’t think so.

- - - - -
End of quote.

1) If Iraq were to revalue so that 1 NID was worth 68cents, the 4.5 to 9+ trillion NIDs in circulation would be worth between 3.06 and 6.12+ trillion dollars ($3.06,000,000,000,000 to $6.12,000,000,000,000+)
This would dwarf the $700 billion (700,000,000,000) currency in circulation in the United States.
http://www.gocurrency.com/countries/united_states.htm

Who thinks Iraq is worth this much in its present state? Anyone?

2) May I direct you to one of Sara's posts, where she tells us that Afganistan has already had a zero lop:
http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_4.html#122137

I agree, that Iraq has more worth as a country than Afganistan and that it is unlikely that Iraq will come to the world markets with a currency worth less than that of Afganistan. That is why I can see very clearly why the Iraqi Finance Minister is suggesting that the dinar take a move in this direction by zero lopping. This will make exactly that happen.

-- July 15, 2006 3:03 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

MissDinar wrote:

There will be NO zero lop, the dnar will have a internal increase initially say 1475 to 475. Then around the end of te month it will hit the forex at anyway between .68 - 1.12. Trust me were are going to be RICH

-- July 15, 2006 09:51 AM

- - - - -
Just to clarify, is that the end of THIS month?
If that doesn't happen, will you exchange my dinars at that rate instead? :o) Pleeeease.

-- July 15, 2006 3:11 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Miss Dinar:
I mean no disrespect here... but can I purchase your perceived dinar valution time table in a bottle or does it come in powder form?

-- July 15, 2006 3:40 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

MissDinar.. I have found this message board to be the most helpful and up to date with information concerning dinar trading. The people here are honest optomistic buyers and analyzers of this topic. Your credibly will go up 1000% (along with your dinars) if you can share a source for your information. We've all heard the town crier singing those phrases before.. please just back up your story. Thanks and good luck on your dinars!!

-- July 15, 2006 6:02 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Well..."Ah reckin whut we have here is a failure to communicate"...remember that movie?

Seriously, the conundrum we're pondering may not have an answer at this time because we simply don't have enough facts. Surely, with all the discussion on this and other forums, some bright soul would have been able to solve the Dinar puzzle.

Hopefully, in my opinion, it will happen in the near future and we can take the advice given by Carl and look into trusts and other devices to handle our increased stash. Just in case....I'm drafting an Offshore Asset Protection Trust.

-- July 15, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carls post on the Iran situation really got me thinking in that direction.

I have'nt got it all together in my head yet, (dont worry I'll come up with something clever eventually)

One thing for sure though, seing the Hezbolla /Israel/Lebanon war taking place on front row TV brings his point home with reality, and we are looking at a cataclysmic event that will play out, maybe now maybe in the fall of 07.

There will be bigger things to come in the Middle East before everything is said and done.

The world can sense the upcoming battle, and is juggling for best preposition, Saudi Arabia did an un-presedented statement, saying Hezbolla was irresponsible doing it's move on Israel.

The conflict has been going on for years after years, but you may have noticed, that for the first time in the Palestine Israel conflict, in almost any official statement, Iran is pointed out as the instigator.

That fact is highlighted now. In the past this fact was mentioned on page twelve.

Whatever the upcoming conflict will do, it will involve Iran as the first target and Syria as the secondary.

Probably a simultaneous strike.

This time around, I do not believe it will be a US only operation, and Israel will not be asked to sit on the sideline, US doing the war for them, in order to not stirr up "Arabian feelings".

This will be the decisive battle, and Israel will be a full participant, and any pretense will be set aside.

I do believe that in the Arab world, they will see the writing on the wall, and they have a clear perspective of who's got the power and who will be involved.

Any involvment will bring destruction, and the line will pretty much be Iran and it's allies, might it be Syria, Hezbolla or Sadr.

You will always find uneducated youths screaming most anywhere, but Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi, Kuwait, Dubai and the other heavyweights will stay out. They know better, and in their heart, they don't mind see the Iranian Mullas go.

We have surrounded Iran now, except for north, Russia, where Bush is sitting and talking with Putin right now.

Iran is going nuclear,and they will use it on us or Israel. This is a timerace.

I do sincerely hope though that when the showdown comes, it's not just the Clinton doctrine of shooting a couple of cruise missiles, and hope they learned a lesson, but the end result must involve a real target of a complete removal of the Iranian regime.

That brings me to another very interesting question, how much is the Iranian Dinar? Is it called Dinars in Iran?

If (when) a showdown comes, their currency will take a nosedive.

This conflict will deeply affect the whole region, oil will go high, and this will be for the Iraqis Dinars benefit.

You sneese and the oil will go higher, Lebanon, and Israel is not oilproducing countries, they end up shooting, and sure enough, the oilcompanies ended up with a highest ever in oilprices.

Hope the Iraq Dinar pays out soon, I need to invest in oilstocks.

-- July 15, 2006 9:40 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Okie,

Well, count the winnings before you start setting something up.

I was involved in a mining project years back, and set everything up, before the deal was done. There was long negotiations, and the deal fell through.

I would wait until you have the bird in your hand, otherwise it's waisted time, and money.

You might want to check in on the set up's they have in Nevada.

It's the only state where the board memebers of a company have identity protection per the state constitution.

In my case, I had set up two companies, one that had the finances, and the production company, that had all their assets heavily in debt to the company with the finances.

The basic set up may not apply in your case, but the idea is that if you have money, anyone with a wiplash or tire tracks on their foot, will sue you for everything you have.

By having everything in a company that is borderline bankrupt, and have all their assets verifyable filed in the courthouse owed to someone else, the lawyer suing wont even touch the case, because there is nothing for him to take.

In my case this was a business deal set up with a producing company, but I'm sure the basic set up, maybe in another form, would be more suitable for a single person, or a family, that has gotten into the greens.

I was not into that particular scene, at the time, but I do remember, seing a lot of options with offshore accounts.

The charm with Nevada State company board identity protection is that you can more or less "dissapear" as a rich man.

As you know, the board, has the real power in a company, and the CEO, does what the board tells him to do.

There is even set ups, where you can hire a CEO, in Nevada. I visited one of those companies. You will have an office, with a CEO, and your name plate, on the office, and at the entrance.

It's easy switchable, nameplates, and one CEO can be a CEO for about 150 companies. There are long corridors of offices, and in each one of them sits a "hired CEO". This might sound very weird, but it's a completely legal and very much used system of asset protection.

Most every Hollywood celebrity have their own Nevada Corporation. Nevada's laws are especially good for individuals and smaller to medium size companies.

Bigger companies with 50 or more employees, are better off registring their company in other states.

If the train comes in for you, you might want to take a trip to Nevada and go through a couple of those companies and see what they have to offer in terms of set ups, now remember this is not an investment, it is a legal set up that you do , before you invest.

-- July 15, 2006 10:06 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

I have Dinar value time tables, for sale.

All you have to do is buy 250 of those, store them in your garage, and sell them to next person in line.

Just think of the titles you're getting.

Level one, Field Manager.
Level two, Senior Field Manager.
Level three, Area Manager.
Level four, Management Director.
Level five, Senior Executive Manager.
Level six. You will be canonized and Holy.

-- July 15, 2006 10:25 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

MissDinar....what information does your "source within the ISX" have that makes him say that the Dinar will not zero lop and open up between .68 and $1.12? I hope you are not Taxmama with an alias....LOL.
I think we are interested in hearing what specific information your source has and why he thinks that way?

-- July 16, 2006 12:51 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

I was doing a bit of background reading, looking for info on the Afgan currency, when I happened upon this information on another forum. I know most of the readers here are the other side of the pond (I'm from the U.K.) but I thought this was worth sharing all the same:

http://www.investorsiraq.com/iraqi-dinar/19246-any-uk-banks-trading-new-iraqi.html

If the information is correct, there are currently two U.K. banks (Natwest and Royal Bank of Scotland) that currently both supply and allow you to deposit NIDs in a U.K. Account.

The supply is at £393/million, which is lower than any that I have seen anywhere. Prices on Ebay are typically £450/million or more.

To deposit NIDs in an account will cost you 2.65% of your stash.

Personally, I would feel one whole lot better about losing 2.65%, especially if bought at these rates, rather than deposit my money in Warka.

Can you open an account from the outside the country? No idea, but you can do your own research about that.

Does the Dinar account pay interest? Again not sure on that. The information on the forum is very brief, but a couple of people verify that they have bought dinars this way.

-- July 16, 2006 1:18 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

"Ah recin whut we have here is a failure to communicate"

Timeless line.....

Miss Dinar,

Please , the old movie line holds true...

There are two individuals, that I suspect is one and the same, Taxmama and Miss Dinar.

Both are doing the same number, say a one or two sentence statement, that is of very high importance, claim "insider info".

Then gone.

Then a couple of weeks later, back, saying a one liner again and then gone.

Every time it happens, a long line of questions are asked by almost the whole board, but the originator is always gone.

When the board have moved on to another subject,... pop, ...back with another one line statement of cruicial importance, and then gone.

Taxmama and MissDinar have the same style, ........

"Ah recin whut we have here is a failure to communicate"

Carls axiom holds true, we always do things for a reason.

Miss Dinar and Taxmama, both your comments here, have ingrediences of rushing out and buy Iraq Dinars.

I suspect you have alternative reasons, why wont you stay and discuss the matter , reveal the sources, why is your standpoint so darn completely opposite to most of us that have analyzed the situation almost to death.

If you scroll back, you will see references after references to web site after website, but you just trow a one liner out, that claims the opposite, and claim secret sources.

You are telling us what we want to hear, but we are not eight year olds here, and doing it that way is not an easy sell.

Probably the best would be to just communicate more, because "Ah recin whut we got here......

-- July 16, 2006 1:44 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Again from another forum, someone had a bit of a panic attack, when they received what looked to be a genuine 10 dinar note. Photos below...

http://www.investorsiraq.com/attachments/iraqi-dinar/3092-10-dinar-note-dinars-002.jpg?d=1152327880
http://www.investorsiraq.com/attachments/iraqi-dinar/3093-10-dinar-note-dinars-003.jpg?d=1152327887

...Turns out this was just a 1969 swiss dinar. Just goes to show how similar the design is to the current NID.

To my mind, if a new currency is printed, with lower denominations, the design will need to be modified a bit to prevent a new 10 dinar note from being mistaken for an old swiss dinar note.

-- July 16, 2006 1:54 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Bob and Roger...

I hadn't made the Taxmama / MissDinar connection, but I think you are on to something there...

Both posting short, punchy statements with incredibly optimistic content, but nothing to back it up and then not responding to any questions.

To me that just spells "I sell dinar. This should hike up my sales a bit"

-- July 16, 2006 2:04 AM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Nellie B- Investor.....precisely my point..she will not respond to these questions...her Dinar sales will spike then plateau off......then she will be back with some wonderful "news", thus the cycle will continue.

-- July 16, 2006 2:51 AM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Today I found a post on another forum from someone much more knowledgable than myself, but who has come to the same conclusions about a revalue. This is the best argued post I have found to date for why a huge revalue in the order of 1 dinar = 68c can't and wont happen:

(I realise it was written in Aug 2005, but I still think the content is entirely relevant today)

- - - - -
Quote:

A discussion about decreasing wages in Iraq. The “purchasing power” argument.
What HUGE drop in wages are you talking about????
Here’s a little background on Iraqi income.
Back around 1980, Iraq was considered one of the most advanced societies in the Arab world, even with that they had an average income of only about $3000 dollars a year. Iraq then went to war with Iran and that’s when their economy went in the crapper, and along with the help of the first gulf war the average income was down to about $800 dollars a year prior to the invasion 2002/2003. Latest estimates I’ve seen it’s currently about $1000 dollars a year. So that’s up a little from pre-war and yes… that’s a significant decrease from 1980 (26 years ago), but it’s no where near the .31 to .00068 decrease that you are portraying it to be.
When did Iraqis ever have this “purchasing power” that everyone speaks of????

You seem to trying to say that just because the exchange rate was higher, they made more money.
I’ve done the research… Iraqis have never made much money. The fact is that in 1980 the average Iraqi made the equivalence of 3000 US dollars a year. That is a fact. I don’t know what the exchange rate was in 1980 and I really don’t care. If it was 3:1, three dinars for every dollar, then the average Iraqi made 1000 dinar a year. If the exchange rate was .33 dinar for 1 dollar then the average Iraqi made about 9000 dinar a year. Just like now the Average Iraqi makes the equivalence of 1000 US dollars a year. That’s 1,475,000 dinars a year. Is there anyone here that really believes that they will revalue to 1:1 and suddenly the average Iraqi will start making 1.5 million dollars a year… or even .33:1, that would be .5 million dollars a year...
Anyone???

The “Iraq should be equal to Kuwait” argument.
Dinars in circulation.
Iraq.....9,000,000,000,000
Kuwait..........500,000,000

So Iraq has 18 thousand times more Dinar in circulation.

How about M2, that takes care of the “Kuwait is electronic” argument.
Iraq........15,000,000,000,000
Kuwait..........10,000,000,000

That’s 1 thousand five hundred times more M2.

So if you take Kuwait’s 3.10 exchange rate and divide it by 1500... That’s .00206

The “they have to walk around with wheelbarrows full of money” argument.
25K Dinar = $17
10K Dinar = $6.8
5K Dinar = $3.4
1K Dinar = $0.68
500 Dinar = $0.34
Seems to me that they have bills out that are pretty much equal to the bills that we carry around every day. I’m not sure why we keep hearing that their money is worthless.
They’ll revalue at 1:1, but they would never print new currency.
I always hear the argument that they wont issue new currency because of the cost. If they revalue to 1:1 they have to print all new currency anyway.

“Iraq has all that Oil and Natural Gas.”
For anyone that thinks that the Iraqi Dinar is going to revalue anywhere near 1:1, please tell me of another country that has 9 trillion units of currency in circulation and has a value near 1:1. It should be very easy to find. Google the name of any country along with currency and M1 and you should get the figure. Please don’t tell me that Iraq is different because of all the oil. None of the other big oil producers come close to a 1:1 value with the same amount of currency. Iraq has about a 50 billion dollar GDP, even if they get up to full throttle, double, triple, even quadruple their GDP to 200 billion, that would still leave them 60X short of the US GDP of 12 trillion. If we based it just on GDP, and give them the quadrupled figure of 200 billion, that would mean a value of .016. But that doesn’t take into account the fact that they have 9 or 10 times more currency in circulation than the US. That reduces it to .0016. How can you possibly ignore those numbers. It’s a known fact that they don’t have the reserves to revalue, it should also be pretty obvious that even with all that oil, they still don’t have any way to revalue anywhere near 1:1.

“Their companies will be bought up for penuts” argument.
This has been talked about in conjunction with a revalue of the currency. The way I see it, if a company in Iraq making widgets is worth 10 billion dinar or 10 million dollars prior to a 1:1 revalue, that company is still only worth 10 million dollars after a revalue. The change would be that instead of being worth 10 billion dinar, they’re now worth 10 million dinar.
Widgets prices/profits didn’t go up 1000 times.
This goes back to the Pepsi salesman thought. His salary cannot increase 1000 times, because they can’t increase the price of a Pepsi 1000 times.

Banks will somehow be worth more after a revalue.
Banks are just like any other company, they make money by providing a service/product. Banks take our money (deposits) and loan it out to others who pay interest on the loan. The money/reserves sitting in banks is not the banks money.
The logic that needs to be extracted is that there will be no large revalue of the dinar and that it’s not necessary to revalue to somehow save Iraqi companies from being bought out. A countries exchange rate has practically nothing to do with the value of a company.

More comparisons, this time… “Why Isn’t Iraq equal or better than Jordan”?
I’ve posted numbers and facts to explain this in the past, I’ll use the company/stocks example since we’ve been hashing that out.
Think of Iraq as a company, think of Jordan or any other country you’d like as a company also. Just like a company has a value, a country has a value (reserves/GDP). Companies go public and sell shares. Countries have units of currency.
Company A and Company B let’s say are both worth 1 million dollars.
Company A sells 10,000 shares at a price of $100 a share.
Company B sells 100,000 shares at a price of $10 a share.
A=$100 B=$10… heck A has to be worth more…. Wronge… they are the same because you have to take into account the number of shares.
It’s the same thing with a comparison between Iraq and any other country. You have to take more into account than just the end number of .00068 or .1.4.
Iraq is much more like company B in the example. They have 9 TRILLION units/shares floating around out there. I just did a quick search and as of July 2004 Jordan had about 3 Billion units/shares out there. So Iraq has 3000x more currency/shares.
Jordan exchange rate 1.4 divided by 3000 = .00046. Guess what… that’s less than Iraq at .00068.

The “It just has to be higher” argument.
Where does this belief that the numbers have to be the same come from??
It’s just a number… what difference does it make whether it’s a small number or a big number… it’s all relative. I’ll ask you, like others to explain Japan. They have an exchange rate of 100 yen to the dollar… how do they ever afford anything???
A better example… ITALY!!! Before they went to the Euro they used the Lira…
The exchange rate for the Lira was $1 = 1535 Lira or 1 Lira = $.00065…. that’s almost exactly what the Iraqi dinar is today. How did the country survive?? How did they have purchasing power?? How did they buy foreign goods?? Also… imagine this… they managed to convert over to the Euro (think GCC here) without having a massive revalue. Their companies didn’t get bought up by foreign investors. How did Italy do all of this????? Answer… it’s just a number… it doesn’t mean JACK!

http://www.investorsiraq.com/193253-post18.html
- - - - -
End of quote.

For the optimists here, that surely is going to demoralise some of you, at least some that have not already buried their head up to their ankles in sand. Myself, I'd rather live in reality, where I can make my own choices, based on the best information available.

Am I about to off-load all of my dinars? No.
I still see this 'gamble' as a good medium-term investment, that should pay off better than most in the next 1-5 years, as rebuilding and major international investments take place. I will seriously look at putting my investment in a U.K. bank though, to safeguard against what I consider to be an imminant zero lop and the inevitable redenomination of currency (new notes) that goes with that.

-- July 16, 2006 4:55 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Perhaps I missed something.. When and where did we learn that there were 9 trillion dinars in circulation?

I've been involved with trading commodities for a while now and currency trading is no different than trading Oranges. There can be a huge harvest, but if no one is willing to part with their oranges and the demand is present the value will go up. I'm imagining that the reason the US has stock piled so much Iraq currency isn't to pay off our debt, its to stabilize the currency. It will stop another foreign country, like China, from going in buying up all economic authority and in essence kick us out. That large percentage of currency that the US has is off the table for trading. Most investors aren't letting go of their dinars at the current excahange rate. So.. demand raises value. Correct me if I'm wrong. We can over analyze this over and over, it comes down to simple supply and demand.

-- July 16, 2006 9:52 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Taylor:
True in your post....
What elements of economics sets the demand for a country's currency and value...

Let me try to list some of them...if I miss some let me know

Efficient Governmental tax collecting programs to maintain Government and Security

Guidelines setup to protect the country's resources

Strict Protection of those guidelines in making sure they are followed

Internal Security Guidelines covering Police,Court,and correctional system

Rigid enforcement of those guidelines covering police,court and correctional

Functional Governmental Agencies at National, State and Local level all working under the same guidelines and banner

Banking System setup to control country's currency, Printing and distribution of such

Banking system recognized and operated under acceptable guidelines of the International Community

The Country's currency allowed to float on the free market currency exchange and move with the up and downs of the country's stability

The Country's Governmental structure to be strong,stable and secure

The Country's infrastructure to be in position to provide enough power, water, sanitation, medical, educational, services that will meet the needs and provide a quality of life for its citizens

Employment and Unemployment percentages to be within the guidelines expected of a strong secure government

Strong efficient Stock exchange to promote that country's businesses throughout their country and internationally

Active and robust export of that country's natural resources to promote a strong and healthy economy

Just using these guidelines and giving each category a max score of 3 for excellant 2 for average, 1 for fair and 0 for poor what would be your total score for Iraq...considering there are 14 criterior listed with a max of 42 points. Average would be 21 points anything below that fair to poor...

That should give each investor a idea of the present value of the dinar....and if it RV's... just what the value of the dinar would be on the international currency exchange ....with the present situation in Iraq

-- July 16, 2006 10:20 AM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Taylor......

Good point about the number of Dinars in actual circulation and the huge stockpile held by the US. I also think the US will use these Dinars for the purchase of oil over an extended period of time which will help stabilize Iraq and their economy.

-- July 16, 2006 11:36 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl...

As usual, you hit a homerun with your list of things to consider regarding the current and future value of the Dinar. Your last point, related to natural resources, was the basis for my initial purchase of Dinars.

I'm from farming country and after standing on the banks of the Euphrates river and looking at the good bottom land it had created, I visited the local Dinar dealer and made my first purchase. That was in July 2004 and as the positive news came in, I bought a lot more.

-- July 16, 2006 12:31 PM ∞

---

Carl wrote:

Okie!
Iraq has so much to offer the world in terms of commerce...it is ashame that human prejudices and religious zeal tends to make the humanoid the most violent species on the face of this earth..
In order for mother earth to survive mankind, she may need to wipe the slate clean and start all over again...

-- July 16, 2006 12:42 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Nelly B,

OK, I understand exactly what your saying but still am confused on exactly what you conclusion is.

Even if we are not going to be millionairs... wouldn't a 40% to a possible 100% return be better than any other investment out there?, especially when the rise in oil prices are creating instability in World Stock Exchanges.

It still appears that the NID might turn out to be the best deal of the century...

Comments or rebuttals?

Regards,
Outlaw

P.S. I also believe Taxmama and MissDinar are one in the same!

-- July 16, 2006 1:32 PM ∞

---

Taxmama wrote:

Not so. I live in the Great Pacific Northwest. Where does MissDinar live?

I think we better hone in on two important dates coming up.
July 25 - el Meliki visits Bush in Washington.

July 26 - the World Bank has a meeting with the Central Bank of Iraq.

Dr. Qaddouri has repeatedly said, along with my dealer who has extensive contacts in Iraq, that when the peg happens, it will be sudden. There will be no big announcement that would cause a huge run on the Dinar. It will be an immediate event.

The next 2-3 weeks are quite critical, I believe.

I am not a dealer or a seller of any currency. I bought a large amount. I only post when I get what I consider accurate information (hasn't always been that way, I admit). My dealer has good communications with the economic community in Iraq. He keeps the investors informed. I have not been encouraged to purchase more Dinar based on the info I receive. I only use it to keep informed and sometimes pass along to others.

So, I ask again. Where does MissDinar reside? We are most decidedly not the same person.

-- July 16, 2006 2:19 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl…..

I can imagine, with your law enforcement background, you’ve seen the extremes of our “good, bad and ugly” nature. I hope we’re not faced with a total wipe out but a partial one when it comes to the human race. As we’ve evolved, this has been our history.

When we first came on the scene, only the strong survived. When Neanderthal man came forward they added a little bit of brainpower to their strength and survived. Cro-Magnon man appeared on the scene and was faster and smarter so the Neanderthal went bye bye from the planet.

So we evolved and are today even faster, smarter and with some added social skills. I believe the clash between the Islamic militants and the rest of the world will be decided in our favor and the militants will go bye bye from the planet just as the Neanderthal did.

There will be a lot of “weeping, wailing and gnashing of the teeth” but I really believe we’ll survive and prosper.

-- July 16, 2006 2:51 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Taxmama......

Thanks for the July 25 & 26 reminders. I also believe the RV announcement will be sudden and given by Maliki on Iraqi soil from Baghdad.

-- July 16, 2006 3:09 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Okie!
It turns my guts when I think of what is happening, and going to happen to the children and individuals who just wanted to live in peace on both sides...but I also know and understand the polite name the events of the future have been given..."WAR"

To the young un-initiated minds on both sides this means adventure...the chance to prove your macho...amano to amano....

In reality it means death has no favorites nor gives any exceptions...to any soul caught in the wrath of slaughter and destruction...age..sex..healthy..infirmed..crippled..all will feel the sting of war...
WAR is like a huge giant fire that starts to suck all of the air around it into the its inferno... it starts out small and then starts to consume anything and everything around or near it...all well laid plans for the good of humanity or a country are consumed by this fire..

If this battle continues and I believe it will.... simply because it is what Iran intended....and they are not going to allow the heat of WAR to die down...they had to get Israel to fight in order to carry out what they have told the world they believed.."ISRAEL NEEDS TO BE WIPED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH"

Iran picked the fight...knowing that to get someone to fight... you must first create enough anger to cause the individual to respond back with their own strikes......the first blow from the assaulted is victory to the instigator....the instigator has already planned out their strategy...the assaulted party has to play catch up for a little while...it is the one who keeps the other off balance that usually wins the battle...

Look for some major devasting attacks on Israel....these could come from Iran or Syria...remember! the Iraqi General who stated WMD were taken to Syria...you may just know how true this is in the coming days...these attacks will be design for two reasons...#1 weaken Israel and shock the civilian population...#2 draw in America to defend Israel .....#3 then create several fronts...along the Iran/Iraq border....strikes on the USA bases from the interior by Sadr's Militia....break out your sleeper cells within the Iraqi military and Police and attempt to remove the existing PM and elected Officials...Start attacks throughout Iraq with the renagade police and military so that no one trust any part of authority within the existing government...Activate your sleeper cells inside the US and start strikes on major transportion facilities..airports...water...electric..trucking industry....communication facilities to black out banking transactions and fuel transports...this interrupts commerce...thus shutting down the US Economy...

Have I just gave you enough to think about what may be coming...?what is happening now in Lebanon and Gaza can leap overnight...when this happens the only way to control it is with a major strike restricting no type of warhead...
This is will be the first flight of nuclear war...the beginning to a different world as we know it today...

May the guardian angels for each of you who read this board,carry you and your love ones through these possible events to come...

-- July 16, 2006 3:37 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Outlaw wrote:

Nelly B,

OK, I understand exactly what your saying but still am confused on exactly what you conclusion is.

Even if we are not going to be millionairs... wouldn't a 40% to a possible 100% return be better than any other investment out there?, especially when the rise in oil prices are creating instability in World Stock Exchanges.

It still appears that the NID might turn out to be the best deal of the century...

Comments or rebuttals?

Regards,
Outlaw

P.S. I also believe Taxmama and MissDinar are one in the same!
- - - - -
Outlaw:
I think we're on the same page... my conclusions are that the dinar wont go up by a factor of 1000, 100, or even 10 overnight, but it will gradully climb in value (my thinking being 1-5 years before we see a 'decent' return - though I give no predictions to what that might be at this time) but yes, I think that rise would still represent a better return than most investments or simply keeping some money in a bank for the same amount of time.
The down side to this is there are also some pretty big risks and I don't see it as impossible to lose the whole investment (worst case scenario)

I see it as important to stay ahead of the game and be ready for any eventualities - especially a redenomination of currency (issue of new notes).

-- July 16, 2006 6:01 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Carl...

Very imaginitive posts. I hope you are not proved right on the middle east situation kicking off and where it could potentially end up.
On the up side, as long as you are around, I wont be seen as the pessimist here :o)

Just out of curiosity, if you were to determine a score out of 42, for Iraq's currency and value using your own system above, what would it be?

-- July 16, 2006 6:15 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Nelly:
The dictionary states
Pessimism... is to take the least favorable view or to expect the worst..
Pragmatical.. taking of or relating to a practical consequences of events,actions or beliefs

The events that I related to are practical sequence of events as to what a leader who wanted to create chaos or achieve a certain goal would practically have to do in order to achieve that goal. These are the events as I see them not as I would like for them to be...What clues do I have to give me that indication...

1. Iran started both incidents to incite Israel to respond in a military way...do you think they did this because they were bored and there was no football game on for the evening...so someone said...I know... lets piss off the Jews..?

2. Iran has stated Israel should be removed from the face of the earth

3. Iran has been goating the West and Israel for the past year

4. Iran has created a fabricated issue with the nuclear plants

5. Iran is in allance with Syria

6. Syria is the one who killed one of Lebanon's top Officials when he had them kicked out of Lebanon

7. The Iraqi General stated WMD went to Syria before the Iraqi invasion

8. Iran and Syria both support the terriorist groups of lebanon and Gaza

9. Syria has made a statement they will strike if attacked by Israel and they will not restrict any means of weapon or attack

10. Iran stated, Israel is in for a surprise of death and destruction that they have not considered...if they attack Syria

11. Iran is now utilizing their forces to assist the terrorist in Lebanon

12. Iran has transfered over 11,500 updated missles to the lebanon forces

13. The United States stated in the pass they would support and defend Israel if attacked

14. Iran and Syria consider the USA just as guilty as Israel because of our backing

15. Israel has given Syria 72 hours to release the Israeli soldiers or be attacked with max force

16. Iran attack Syria and you have attacked the Arab World

17. Sadr himself verbally and is presently having his clerics verbally attack and incite his milita to assist the lebanon terriorst, and start attacks on Iraqi Coalition Forces

18. Hezbalah stated we have only begun to the fight

19 Israel stated we are at "ALL OUT WAR"

20.First time since 1991 has Israel set up defense missles throughout all of their cities

21. All Iraeli National Defense Reservist have been activated

I could go on ...but have I made my point...

I have just made a simple observation of events that have occurred over the past 5 days...it is practical and possible that all of the above events given in my last post can occur during the following weeks..

If it does...the Iraqi dinar is going to be the value of Table Salt for quite sometime to come.

Pessimist or Pragnatist...?

7.

-- July 16, 2006 8:44 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,

War is slaughter , mayhem and wholesale massacre.

No one with it's sane mind wants it.

But we're not dealing with individuals that could, in any social scale of evaluation be called sane.

Perhaps it's actually a good idea to have this war done and over with.

It will come soner or later, the Israel Hezbolla conflict is not the mainreasons for this war, it's an orcestrated distraction from Iran.

If I were an Israeli warplanner, I would bomb both the Iranian and Syrian embassy in Beirut to dust and pieces.

Afterall, it is a legitimit target for Israel, they are the backers and financers of Hezbolla.

It will in this conflict immediately turn the headlight from any pretence that this is a Hezbolla/ Israeli conflict and put the Iran, Syria relationship straight in the crosshairs.

The Israelis know this, but there might be a lot more behind the scenes that is not in the open yet.

What Bush and Putin is saying behind closed doors is ofcourse not a known thing, but the fact that Iran borders to Russia is nothing of a secret.

Perhaps its time, but then again,perhaps it's not time yet for the war, and Israel will lay back after a couple of weeks of pounding on the Hezbollas.

Russia and China seems to be a bit wishy washy on the Iran deal, Europe, and FN seems (as usual) to be somewhat softer too, and wants about 583 not enforceable resolutions , and endless debate, with the hope of a diplomatic solution.

Good luck, like asking Hitler to hold a promise.

Any resolution, that is put forward, will not be respected, any promise will not be held, any contract will not be honored, any promise of withdrawal will not happen, any promise of de arming is a pipedream, any cease fire will be broken.

Totalitarian fachist states don't hold such things as promises, contracts and respect in high value.

To negotiate, is for them just another means of winning time for development of another hidden purpose.

So in my judgement, it's a bad thing with war, it's like a big earthquake in California, but you know it's going to happen , like it or not.

I predict that when it happens, it will be a disruption to the whole region, but I'm pretty sure , quite a few Arabian countries can see the writing on the wall, and will try to stay out of it.

Apart from screaming youths, in Djakarta and Cairo, I do strongly believe that the coming conflict will be limited to Israel, Lebanon, Syria , Iran, USA and then it's a matter of how many allies US can get onboard this time.

The Dinar, or any currency from that region will be unstable during the conflict, but if the infrastructure is left untouched, in the non participating oilproducing countries, I do predict a quick rebound after the conflict.

Ofcourse, oilprices will rise, any reason and they will. In this conflict though, Iran IS an oilproducing country and the oilprices will have a legitimate reason to rise.

(after it's legitimate rise, they will ofcourse rise three times more, just for profit, right now, there is plenty of oilreserve all around the world, and by all standards the oilprices should go down, but as two non oilproducing countries are at war right now, they just have to go up for good measure)

Taxmama,
Thankyou for clarifying who you are and that you gave a little bit about yourself. You're communicating now, thats better, keep it up. Say Hi to Sam, he knows me.

-- July 16, 2006 11:55 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Taxmama......thanks for your explanation....does your source know if they are going to zero lop the currency prior to the peg or not?

-- July 17, 2006 12:06 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Good afternoon from Iraq.

Buried on the MSNBC web site half way through the "41 Killed" article was this:

"Also Monday, U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez arrived in the Iraqi capital for meetings with Iraqi officials. President Bush promised to send more Cabinet officials to Baghdad to help the new government jump-start the economy, a key step toward restoring stability."

Interesting, more food for thought. The tea leaves are still settling.

One other quick comment. Several have said that Iraq's economy could never withstand raising the value of the dinar, but they always compare 1 dollar to 1 NID. So 7 Trillion NID automatically become 7 Trillion Dollars. Even at the most quoted figure of 9 Trillion in circulation (which I can find NO record of), if it revalued to only $0.01, this would only be worth 90 Billion Dollars. Not much for the inherent value of Iraq in my opinion. If you bought your NID at and average of $700 per million, and it revalued to $0.01, it would now be worth $10,000.00 or a percentage increase of 1428%. Not a bad investment, and now Iraq's money is worth 90 Billion instead of only 7. Well under the trillions that have been discussed.

-- July 17, 2006 7:01 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

One other comment to go with above. If Iraq is averaging 2.4 million barrels of oil per day at approximately $75.00 per barrel that makes them $65.7 Billion per year. All owned by the government at this point. Not to mention all the money that the rest of the world has pumped (pardon the pun) into them, and the vast amounts still due from the donar nations.

-- July 17, 2006 7:15 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

And once again:

14 July 2006 (Turkish Daily News) -- Only 10 percent of Iraq has been explored for oil and 60 percent of proven reserves are in undeveloped fields, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in a report...

-- July 17, 2006 8:11 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Lance:
The truth is Iraq does not know how much they are averaging a day in oil production...

The Reason....they do not have any meters on their oil wells or facilities as all of the production is estimated...
Why???
The meters were removed when Saddam was in power so he could say how much oil he was producing and no one could rebute him...this was an excellent way to cheat the international community on the oil for food program...he was in control of just how much was "officially" pumped and the numbers given to the UN...
The present Iraqi Oil Ministry has chosen to maintain that system...
Why??
Well! I think you can fiqure that out for yourself...

-- July 17, 2006 9:29 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

The one last hope was...

The Arab Leaque of Nations would step in curtail Iran and Syria with behind the scene moves...allowing Iran and Syria to recieve their macho imagine, yet backing off of the tension raising moves...

This morning the Arab Leaque of Nations stated...Israels attacks were overboard, excessive and it seemed that Israel had been given free rein by the international community to do as they will..
The Moderate Arab Nations were now becoming concern and uneasy with the present Israeli action..

Break that down to this...
The Moderate Arabs know that hezbalah and hamas are to blame...
They have been critical of them but not saying too much...now they are feeling the pressure of the surrounding radical arabs....
The leaque has recognize they have weak shifting sand underneath their feet if Iran and Syria are successful in promoting this conflict under the "Attack of all Arab Banner"
This is why they have come on in the response to distance their selfs from the USA and Israel position...
My Thoughts...
The Arab Leaque of Nations recognize their entire economic region is in danger of being destroyed in a expanding campaign...they will attempt to stop it behind the scenes...however...if they fail they "WILL JOIN THE OTHER ARAB NATIONS AGAINST THE USA AND ISRAEL" They have no other choice in order for their regimes to survive...

-- July 17, 2006 9:40 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
Is correct about the present conflict....fight them now or fight them later...delay will only give Iran more time to create their nuclear weapons...its time to stop the instigators of war...the entire region will be better off at the end of the conflict...of course assuming that our side wins...but like any ride on a thrashing bull... no one knows if the rider can stay for 8 seconds..

-- July 17, 2006 9:45 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Hi all...

Some of you are still building castles in the sky while accusing those of us who don't spend our time with our heads in the clouds trying to make sense of the fluffy shapes that we are burying our heads in the sand I see..

Carl;

I looked EVERYWHERE for confirmation of this point:

15. Israel has given Syria 72 hours to release the Israeli soldiers or be attacked with max force

Where did you see that?

Sara.

-- July 17, 2006 10:18 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

This is good news.. :)

Sara.

===

Iraq and U.S. sign commercial agreement
July 17, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq --Iraq and the United States signed a commercial cooperation agreement Monday that officials hope will help this country move into a free market after decades of wars, sanctions and state control.

"Concerning the agreement that we signed today, it is the result of long discussions and follows mutual agreements between Iraq and the United States," al-Sudani told reporters.

He said that the principles of the agreement are based on improving the Iraqi economy after it was destroyed by war.

"We will start a new chapter in the cooperation between the United States and Iraq," Gutierrez said. "This will entail cooperation in the economic field and promoting investments in key areas of the country in sharing technology and other forms of capacity building."

"It will be a unique opportunity to enable the Iraqi people to move from a centralized system of economic development to one where individuals can apply their skills and their talent and their energy to develop a better life for themselves, obviously for their families and for their country," he added.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700143.html

-- July 17, 2006 10:19 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Sara:
The Drudgereport.com ....they posted the 72 hours yesterday morning or Sat Night

-- July 17, 2006 10:25 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Lance....

Thanks for posting the value gain of the Dinar at $.01 RV. Kinda puts it in perspective...doesn't it? Any news to report on the current street value of the Dinar?

-- July 17, 2006 11:45 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Thanks, Carl. :)

I checked the site and tried the archives, too. There is nothing on that site saying that now - though they haven't put yesterday's headline news into the archive, so maybe it will turn up there. However, if it had been a real PUBLIC ultimatum, you would think it would be all over the media.

Hopefully that means they are not in an escalation phase, just trading insults and rhetoric. I'm just trying to keep my feet firmly on the ground and not play chicken little when one person says something, like the zero lop folks have done. :)

Hopefully we will know more in a while.

I still hope they are sick enough of war to overcome this with diplomacy now and not end up dragging the entire region into combat. Even if the Iranians AIM to do that, with the right diplomacy and moves, the Iranian plans CAN be thwarted because they don't hold all the cards in the deck.

Sara.

-- July 17, 2006 12:01 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Answer to Bob:

My source said No zero lop.

Not a lot of confidence in Finance Minister. Used to own a jewelry store, I heard.

-- July 17, 2006 12:10 PM ∞

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Techy wrote:

Taxmama,

Would appreciate it if you could enlighten us on your source or where you gather this positive information from.

-- July 17, 2006 12:53 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Source is the dealer from whom I have purchased my Dinar. They put on a conference call with leading middle east economist Dr. Qais Qaddouri each week.

It is always quite informative. The Dr. is an Iraqi and is usually in Iraq at the time of the call. The call is generated from the dealers offices here in the U.S.

-- July 17, 2006 1:11 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Taxmamma!
Just remember....Barnum Bailey said there is one born every second...People do not do anything without a reason....the trick ...what is the reason...or motivation behind either the action or information...
Usually it is the one or ones who have the most to gain that releases or screens the information...it is usually design to either induce someone to do something or not do something...

We already know for a fact your source was full of shit one time....

Again....Barnum Bailey said.....

-- July 17, 2006 1:43 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Thank God for cooler heads who can see reason and find diplomatic compromise to create a peaceful resolution!
I pray they carry through on both sides..

Sara.

===

Israel sets cease-fire terms
17/07/2006 17:27 - (SA)

Beirut - Diplomatic efforts to end Israeli-Hezbollah fighting gained traction on Monday, with Israeli officials saying the country would agree to halt fighting if its two captured soldiers were returned and Islamic guerrillas withdrew from the border.

Publicly, the officials continued to insist their goal was to dismantle Hezbollah.

But senior aides to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert office said he told his Italian counterpart, Romano Prodi, that Israel would accept cease-fire terms of Hezbollah releasing the Israeli soldiers and withdrawing from the border.

On Sunday, Lebanese officials said that Israel had sent the terms of a possible cease-fire through Italian mediators.

The terms were the release of the two captured soldiers, and a Hezbollah pullback to roughly 30km from the Israeli-Lebanese border.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Middle_East/0,,2-10-2075_1969277,00.html

-- July 17, 2006 2:10 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

I don't know Carl.. I don't think that Taxmoma's source is completely full of Crap. In the posting a while back when there was a prediction that there would be a 45% increase on a certain day, things did happen. It wasn't the 45% increase that we would hope but trading amounts decreased, the next day they announced that they would not be printing anymore Dinars, they also stated that the dinar was stable, 2 days after they announced the zero lop. Perhaps they may have been wrong on their specifics, but the overall timeline on events about to occur are pretty much right on the money. I hope you're right taxmomma. Good luck on your dinars!

-- July 17, 2006 2:28 PM ∞

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Terri wrote:

Taxmomma -- what value does your source (or range) say the dinar will peg at...?

-- July 17, 2006 2:46 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

What exact position is this Dr Qais Quaddori in.??

The ammount of people with a Dr degree in Economics are staggering.

If Dr Quais is in a position where he actually have access to the inner workings of the Central Bank, it would be a plus.

If this Dr Quais is another prognosticator, well the world is full of them.

There is a lot of universiy people with Dr degrees, that are sales managers in Wal Mart.

Judging from the track, it seems that Dr Quais, is close enough to know that SOMETHING will happen, but not close enough to tell exactly WHAT will happen.

I'm sure Dr Qais is getting paid on one way or the other to prognosticate the future.

If you pay a Doctor, to stand up on TV,and say how good this Vaginal Yeast Infectin pill is, does'nt mean he's closest buddy is the manager in a medical lab, on the verge of a medical breakthrough.

Thankyou Taxmama, I would treat this source, as a person with a flair of knowledge of the current development, but I wouldn't bet my life on him.

By all means, keep reporting what he comes up with, but please, dont advertise it as "breaking news".

Dr Qais will fit in to the picture in one way or the other, but as stated above, he has already proven to be full of shit once.....get my drift.

You know the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

-- July 17, 2006 3:30 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Ok Your dealing with Dr Dinar, they have this calls, you do a survey, and it's free, or you pay about 12 bucks and you're in on one of those calls. I get that promotion on my screen pretty often.

There is a reason for everything, there is a reason a company that sells Dinars want you to talk with an "expert", telling you great news.

Cool down Taxmama, this was too simple.

-- July 17, 2006 3:38 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Carl & Roger.....

This Dr. Qais has been quoted on other forums and received a "no-go" about like he's getting here.

Just remember...."buyer beware!"

-- July 17, 2006 3:49 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

ok.. I just got done listening to a half hour of Dr. Qais on http://www.freedinar.com/audio.asp in his latest report. Some of his predictions make sense. Its worth listening to. He states that the currency re-val will not happen overnight. It will occurr in small steps over time. For example now 1477/ dollar, then 1000/dollar then 500, 250 ect..

I didn't catch what some viewers stated as a definate reval date. He actually advises to stay away from people like this. If you have a half hour to blow.. let me know your thoughts...

-- July 17, 2006 5:33 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

The other Dr. Quddouri is not the same as this one. This is Dr. Qais Quddouri.
That's already been established in the past two weeks.

This company selling the Dinar is an internationally respected firm that trades curriences all over the world and also in the U.S. They are very big and very respected.

Dr. Quddouri has a brother-in-law on the CBI committee sometimes has deeper info.

The call carries with it no fee, no charge, no survey.

-- July 17, 2006 5:36 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

Taylor's last post contains the perspective we need to have in mind when speaking about the re-evaluation of the DINAR.
"He states that the currency re-val will not happen overnight. It will occurr in small steps over time. For example now 1477/ dollar, then 1000/dollar then 500, 250 ect.."

Incremntal Determinism should be our mantra. Investors big and small stand to profit. Our profit will come prudence and patience are our code of conduct.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 17, 2006 5:51 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Taxmama said.....

"This company selling the Dinar is an internationally respected firm that trades curriences all over the world and also in the U.S. They are very big and very respected."

_________________________________

Well gawlee goober....if I knew whut thar name wuz I might be tempted to buy some of that thar deenaar from em.

-- July 17, 2006 6:00 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

As I have not seen any other chat rooms and chatters themselves mention names of Dinar suppliers, I don't think it's my position to do this. I am just one customer among many thousands.

I was only trying to give some validation for my source of information.

Take it or leave it.

-- July 17, 2006 7:10 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Why not say the name of the companies you have bought from, why should that be a secret.

I bought my car from Mercedes, I bought my truck from Freightliner, My boat is the brand Morgan, and my jeans is Wrangler. I smoke Backwoods cigars, and I fuel at Flying-J,I bought Dinars from 1. the Dinar Group, and 2. eDinar.

The first company took five weeks to get my Dinars, and the second company was too expensive, so Taxmama, where are you buying, and what is the deal with that company, would you recomend it?

-- July 17, 2006 7:34 PM ∞

---

taxmama wrote:

If there is one thing I've learned from this "motley crew" of chatters is that no matter what someone posts on here, there are going to be one or many others who are going to attack that information. It doesn't have to do with whatever I may contribute, but with just about everyone else here.

Roger, I am sure there are others who are going to naysay your Mercedes, Freightliner, Morgan, Wranglers, etc etc etc, because they really don't have a life and get their kicks out of this sort of activity.
So, I'm not going to name my source because it wouldn't matter if I got my Dinar directly from el Maliki himself, I'd get trashed for days.

No, I'm not being thin-skinned, just getting tired of a small group of people who feel negative is their middle name and are darned proud of it.

-- July 17, 2006 7:50 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

I also:
Bought from soldiers in Iraq and SafeDinar

-- July 17, 2006 7:52 PM ∞

---

Okie wrote:

Let me see...

I bought a bunch from a local Dinar dealer in Ramadi. Bought some more from friends who thought it was not a good investment. Bought a bunch from Al-Warka Bank in Baghdad.

I feel so much better now that I've disclosed my sources....what a relief!!!

Aw com'on Mamma....admit that your "International Company" really operates out of a closet somewhere in Arizona......

-- July 17, 2006 8:15 PM ∞

---

TM wrote:

Roger and team, I have been a lurker for some time and like you hope this train leaves the station. I do not consider myself any more educated than anybody else and appreciate all of the info, both good and bad. We must realize that the end result will happen regardless of what we want. I must ask though why Roger made the reference to sales managers at Wal-Mart? I can tell you that I know several of these folks and have been with them for 19 years. Whatever you hear in the press or feel personally about our company is of course fine. But I for one am fatigued at the constant criticism directed our way. I realize that by posting this I am opening myself up to all kinds of comments, but if I believe in something I stand behind it, just like the Dinar.

I will also say I appreciate all of the positive comments for our troops. I am a vet and come from a long line of servicemen. It is not only important that we support them now, but remember them when they come home, and 20 years from now.

-- July 17, 2006 8:18 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

TM and Taxmama,

I guess before you entered the room you didn't see the sign... "Beware of the Bubba's"

Take it all with a grain of salt... and a shot of Jack!

Outlaw

-- July 17, 2006 8:52 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

TM if that is Taxmama,

Read my post again.

I dont know if in particular your Dr, was a salesperson in WalMart.

It's so darn hard to get you to talk, lately you have loosen up, but info comes in bits and pieces.

Ok lately, AFTER my posting you tell me next piece of info, that he's got a brother in law on the Central Bank comitte, fine.

THEN we're all a navel looking inward looking group, that ask you where you bought your Dinars, but you keep coming back and state that it's inappropriate, or some other social respactable thing to not tell, and you because of this or that rather keep that a secret.

Taxmama, it's like pulling a molar, it's like someone have to bind you with rope into a chair, and by force pull the old wisdom tooth out of you.

One very classical way to control or keep interest in oneself is to keep others ignorant. Give just enough that questions are stirred up, that some kind of reaction will take place, based on ones own importance, with the "secret insider info" one is sitting on.

Taxmama, you should know that your first posting to this blog was a pretty panic thing, stuff that should happen, and you communicated in one two perhaps three sentences that was all statements as facts.

If you think it was an insult that there are university degree Dr's that work in WalMart, because they dont have jobs in the field thay are educated in, that should be a compliment to WalMart, better have a low paying job than nothing.

To me it looks like your reading into this that "working in WalMart is an activity for lesser beings."

You know Taxmama, the reason you have been defending yourself here is not because were a bunch of nitwits, in my opinion you did it to yourself.

Now tell me, what degree on the Richterscale would the earthquake hit if you say where you bought you Dinars.

To what degree of shame and embarrasment would you, and your family endure seven generations from now, if you say where you bought your Dinars.

I assume the selling company have advertismets, and want to sell more. Did you sign a non disclosure contract with the company to not disclose your "source of Dinars".

I just in my frickin mind can't see you attitude here.
Taxmama if you.........ah, I dont bother no more. Taxmama, its ok, you can HAVE your secret. Keep it. It's all yours.

-- July 17, 2006 9:15 PM ∞

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TM wrote:

Outlaw, I understand. I can take it and have for several years. Lke I said, i know I opened myself up, but you have to be able to defend that you believe in. As for salt, I have used that in several wounds to close and protect. Hurts like He**. Got the Jack part down. I want to keep this board on topic and do not mean to detract. I love all of the info on here and wish i could contribute more. But you folks have it covered and my life only allows me to check once in awhile. So I say to all of you, Godspeed and good luck Sir.
TM

-- July 17, 2006 9:23 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

I rest my case!

Outlaw

-- July 17, 2006 9:25 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

TM... See ya at the Pig Roast Bud.

Oh, by the way... Walmart is the only place I shop!

Outlaw

-- July 17, 2006 9:34 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Ok, I see in hindsight that TM might not have been the best ID here. LOL, my name is Terry and I live in Arkansas. Typical male just trying to make sense out of life and raise my daughter with the right virtues. I am most certainly not Taxmamma. Check the IP if you wish. I am the one who works for WM and am damn proud of that fact. I meant no harm on the board, just wanted to understand. I am sorry Taxmamma for the further scrutiny you have had at my hand.

-- July 17, 2006 9:55 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Terry!
I don't believe Roger mean anything personally toward you...I am sure he doesn't have a clue who you are, what position you hold at Walmart, where you live in Arkansas or for that matter really care...It is a fiqure of speech in which walmart is used in expressing an attitude.... Walmart's Upper Level Corporate Management has earned that reputation......with their low clerk wages and part time hours they use to circumvent paying benefits to their employees..Now that is a fact...

The issue is not walmart or you....usually if someone gives information on the board they will give the source if asked...if it does not violate someones code of oath...or a official disclosure violation...

I believe it started with Tax Mamma's source in which she apparently has total trust in...that is fine with me and I am sure with everybody else...sources do several things...give valid information...give unverified bogus information...give hearsay information...give fabricated information deliberately...and most of the time the information is extremely hard to distinquish from valid to fabricated.....just because someone told me its true and I believe it is true...then pass it on as the truth...doesn't make it true...Now! thats a fact!

-- July 17, 2006 10:14 PM ∞

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Terry wrote:

Carl, I agree with you totally. Fact is fact and your facts on my company is wrong or based on wrong facts. I can understand now how wrong facts can distort the truth. I will keep my post in the future on subject and do not take anything personally. I am comfortable with myself and my place in life.
Thanks
Terry

-- July 17, 2006 10:25 PM ∞

---

Lance wrote:

Carl,

You wrote:

Lance:
The truth is Iraq does not know how much they are averaging a day in oil production...

The Reason....they do not have any meters on their oil wells or facilities as all of the production is estimated...
Why???
The meters were removed when Saddam was in power so he could say how much oil he was producing and no one could rebute him...this was an excellent way to cheat the international community on the oil for food program...he was in control of just how much was "officially" pumped and the numbers given to the UN...
The present Iraqi Oil Ministry has chosen to maintain that system...
Why??
Well! I think you can fiqure that out for yourself...

Answer: 2.4 or 2.5 Million Barrels per day is based on what is sold through pipelines to the distribution points at the terminals (Turkey & Basrah) prior to loading on the ships. This is an accurate figure based on metered flow onto the ships or at the terminal. No one is going to pay for oil they aren't getting. Iraq is at least selling this much per day, and probably producing even more, but is not counted because of theft, spillage (I see a lot of that every day in person), etc. Believe me they know to the barrel exactly what is "Shipped"/"Sold" every day.

Sorry I couldn't answer sooner, but we have this time zone difference thing going on over here.

Other: I to believe that the raise in value of the NID will be incremental. Not to mention that it also needs the approval of the World Bank and IMF to go global and be Pegged.

-- July 17, 2006 11:14 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Terri = TM, but not Taxmamma,

Ah, ok, Well that helps.

Oh by the way, nothing against Walmart. I shop there, but I will say that K-Mart sucks. (after the movie Rainman, where that line was mentioned a couple of times, K-mart had to live with that slogan)

This is getting messy, reminds me about the soap " Melrose place" , when everybody had slept with everybody, they ran out of script.

Ok Terry, I know who you are now. Keep trucking.

And again, Carl to the rescue.

Getting to know everybody on the board takes some time, Carl the ex policeman, Outlaw the military man, Roger the trucker, Terri in WM Ar, Lance on assignment in Iraq, Sara, and the rest...dont have a clue, ....
That Roast in the Keys really seem like something we can enjoy. It's getting more and more real.

We're doing finger massage now.

Everything is analysed to death.

Toss in a couple of folklore stories now.

Lets have a "where did you get the info" vacation.

Here's a good one.

Sweden and Norway have always had this love/hate relationship and many stories are passed between the two countries.

The IQ in Sweden had dropped dramaticaly and the goverment realized they had to do something about the immigration from Norway.

In the Swedish consulate in Norways capitol Oslo, a set of questions was to be delivered to any Norwegian prospect trying to move to Sweden.

One day following call was recorded:

-"I would like to emigrate from here, to Sweden"
-"You have to answer three questions, at least one of them has to be correct in order for you to do that, are you ready?"
-"Ok, what is made of leather and have five fingers?...
-"Hello, are you there?"
-"Oh yes, I'm thinking, can I hear the question again?"
-"What's made of leather and have five fingers?"
-"Oh I dont know, I take my chances on the other two questions, whats the right answer by the way?"
-"RIGHT ANSWER IS, ONE GLOVE"
-Oh ofcourse, I would have known that, ok give me next question now."
-"What is made of leather and has ten fingers?"
-"Ten fingers , this is getting harder and harder, I dont have a clue"
-"Well if I don't get an answer you will have only one question left, and you know, it has to be correct otherwise you will fail, do you want to take a chance on the last question?"
-"Ok, whats the right answer by the way?"
-"RIGHT ANSWER IS, TWO GLOVES"
-"Ofcourse, how could I miss that, anyhow I'm ready for the last question"
-" What is the MAN called, he lives in Sweden in the Capitol, his wife is a QUEEN, he lives in the CASTLE, and his children is PRINCE and PRINCESS?
-"I'VE GOT IT, RIGHT ANSWER IS THREE GLOVES"

-- July 17, 2006 11:27 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

Taxmama.....what does your source say the Dinar will peg at...and approximately what time frame......and what brings them to that projection?

-- July 18, 2006 12:58 AM ∞

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Copedawg wrote:

WOW! this place is still here and thriving!

-- July 18, 2006 8:46 AM ∞

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Copedawg wrote:

WOW! this place is still here and thriving!

-- July 18, 2006 8:47 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The funds that the US provided for re-construction will be used or obligated this year. I believe by the end of Aug. or Sept. the Iraqi Government will have to bite the bullet and start funding their own projects. The projects required are huge and cover petro-chemical and various utilities.

I believe they won't contract for these projects with a Dinar that has such a low value. If they did, then for example a company like Bechtel, would end up owning a large chunk of Iraq and other companies would do likewise.

This is one of the reasons I believe we will see a strong RV of the Dinar in the near future. To me, near future is weeks and not months.

______________________________________
As of February 2006, we have disbursed $10.5 of the $18.4 billion, funding projects in the security, economic, and political spheres. 83% of the $18.4 billion has been obligated to projects. We have a detailed plan for projects using the remaining funds that will be completed before the close of the 2006 fiscal year.

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/rpt/60857.htm

-- July 18, 2006 10:34 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Stealing worthless Dinar they will just zero lop????

====

First Baghdad bank heist nets 1.4 billion

BAGHDAD, July 18 (KUNA) -- Unknown militants dressed as Iraqi security forces robbed the Al-Rafidain Bank branch in Al-Amiriya, western Baghdad, Tuesday taking a 1.4 billion Iraqi dinars trophy.

Sources from the Iraqi Interior Ministry said the robbers fled the scene in two green pick ups and a BMW.

This is the first bank heist since the looting that took place at several banks including the Iraqi Central Bank upon the fall of the former Saddam Baathist regime.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=887843

-- July 18, 2006 11:18 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Why steal Dinar now?

Looks like they wanted a ticket on the Dinar train.. and they got a very large one.. first class.. 1.4 BILLION.

Dare I hope that they might wish to retire to a tropical island oasis with their own private yacht and a couple of very beautiful wives? Or must we consider the possibility they may use the money at the RV rate toward furthering terrorism?

To me, this says the authorities around the globe will have to have very stringent guidelines in place for exchanging Dinar.. to catch any money laundering. The Iraqi government will have to watch the Banks carefully for transactions (real estate or opening large bank accounts) in case the heisters decide to deposit it or use it within Iraq, too.

Seems to me there are terrorists who are believers in the short term RV.. wonder what their sources of info are? It doesn't appear that they have bought their Dinar through a dealer in the US.

Sara.

-- July 18, 2006 11:33 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara....

I believe the Al-Rafidain bank has a shady background related to Saddam. Maybe it was an inside job! Hope the Police can catch them before they turn the Dinars into RPG's.

-- July 18, 2006 11:45 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Okie;

Maybe they just wished some money to finance their terrorism now and it has nothing to do with a short term RV..

Either way, though, I too hope they are caught before they turn it into the deaths of innocents.

I had just hoped they wanted a yacht and a couple of lovely wives in the tropics instead.. hence, ending some terrorism. :)

Sara.

-- July 18, 2006 12:00 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara....

I agree....I hope they went bye bye on their yacht with their lovely wives. :)

-- July 18, 2006 12:07 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Okie...

I bet your glad they didn't hit the Al Warka Bank instead Huh???

Outlaw

-- July 18, 2006 12:29 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Outlaw.....

You betcha I am! Do you remember about a year ago when a lot of discussion was going on about the merit of keeping your Dinars inside or outside of Iraq? Well, I solved that question by sending half of my stash to Warka and the other half to my daughter who lives overseas. I then bought another 3 mill. which I kept with me as cash.
I believe I got a little paranoid about putting it in different places and it violated my rule of "bird in hand", so I hope some pimply faced thug doesn't rob Warka in the near future.

-- July 18, 2006 1:55 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Sara Madgid wrote:

Why steal Dinar now?

Looks like they wanted a ticket on the Dinar train.. and they got a very large one.. first class.. 1.4 BILLION.

Dare I hope that they might wish to retire to a tropical island oasis with their own private yacht and a couple of very beautiful wives? Or must we consider the possibility they may use the money at the RV rate toward furthering terrorism?

To me, this says the authorities around the globe will have to have very stringent guidelines in place for exchanging Dinar.. to catch any money laundering. The Iraqi government will have to watch the Banks carefully for transactions (real estate or opening large bank accounts) in case the heisters decide to deposit it or use it within Iraq, too.

Seems to me there are terrorists who are believers in the short term RV.. wonder what their sources of info are? It doesn't appear that they have bought their Dinar through a dealer in the US.

Sara.

-- July 18, 2006 11:33 AM

I see that more as a window of opportunity that was open to them, before security stablilises further. I'm sure these militants have no more idea than we do (probably less) what is going to happen to the dinar in the short term. Even if the currency zero lops next week, they would still have a period of time to filter at least part of it through various means to exchange it for new currency.
1.4 Billion dinars (current street value in Iraq around $1.4 million) is better for the militants to have in hand than to still be sitting in a more secure bank in the future, that they may not be able to steal.

Just my thoughts.

-- July 18, 2006 3:25 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Okie...

I don't think your paranoid at all... just sounds like your covering all the bases!

Regards,
Outlaw

-- July 18, 2006 4:40 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

There'e a real interesting rule on aboutdinar.com that perhaps we could abide by as well...

All rumors or posts posted in the rumor forum of the website can not be personally attacked. If you do not believe a rumor state WHY the rumor is false with facts not name calling, insults, or attacks on their credibility. Anyone found in violation will be warned, offending posts deleted, repeated violations will result in temp ban and then permanent ban. This does not affect other forums but members should take their fight to the high noon room thread to argue and not disrupt the thread they are in.

Rumors may be false, but at least back them up with reasons why they are false.

Last night's slam on Taxmomma was uncalled for no matter how off base a speculation was presented. I want to hear what others have to say.

-- July 18, 2006 5:20 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

By the way... check out this link..

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/files/articles/article053.htm

The Iraqi Central Bank... Six trillion dinars is the net mass of cash in Iraq.

An official source in the Iraqi central bank revealed that the net mass of cash in Iraq reached 6 trillions of Iraqi dinars. The size of circulating cash is 4 trillions dinars.‏
And the source said that the central bank seeks now limitation of inflation that occurred in the time of bygone regime throughout random and unstudied mechanism Of the central bank and that caused a big rise in prices level.‏

He also clarified that the bank managed the reduction of inflation level through last April and hopefully a continuous work will cause eradication of more than 20% of inflation level in order that through coming five years the Iraqi economy enjoys balanced market with active economy.‏
And he pointed that the Iraqi economy is not submitted to budget but to total local product.
The bank now is capable of reinforcement the value of the Iraqi dinar with respect to other currencies.

( Translated from Arabic )

Looks like the magic number is 6

-- July 18, 2006 5:24 PM ∞

---

Rob N. wrote:

All:

Here is another potential delay in Dinar Nirvanna. This article is from www.iraqi-dinar-exchange.com

Title of the Article: Turkey signals it's prepared to enter Iraq.

Turkish officials signaled Tuesday they are prepared to send the army into northern Iraq if U.S. and Iraqi forces do not take steps to combat Turkish Kurdish guerrillas there — a move that could put Turkey on a collision course with the United States.

Turkey is facing increasing domestic pressure to act after 15 soldiers, police and guards were killed fighting the guerrillas in southeastern Turkey in the past week.

"The government is really in a bind," said Seyfi Tashan, director of the Foreign Policy Institute at Bilkent University in Ankara. "On the one hand, they don't want things to break down with the United States. On the other hand, the public is crying for action."

Diplomats and experts cautioned the increasingly aggressive Turkish statements were likely aimed at calming public anger and pressing the U.S. and Iraq to act against the Turkish Kurdish guerrillas. But they also said Turkish politicians and military officers could act if nothing is done.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 18, 2006 5:27 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Taylor,

I agree with you!

Taxmama... Sorry for thinking you might be MissDinar. I don't care if you were... and couldn't care less where you got your Dinar!

=============================

Rob N...

I think Turks are pissed because maybe the Kurds are stopping Insurgents from crossing into Iraq from Turkey!

Regards,

Outlaw

-- July 18, 2006 6:34 PM ∞

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Millionaire2B wrote:

Taylor, I agree with you completely. I also think an apology, especially to TM, was warranted, instead of "ah, ok that helps". I think that some on here could show more respect whether you agree or disagree with someone. We really don't know who is posting and one day could truly regret some of the comments made.

-- July 18, 2006 6:36 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

It is nice to see that there are a few people here with manners.

Thank you.

And for the record, I have never in my life said anything derogatary against Wal-Mart.
We buy 50+ lbs of Wild Bird seed there every month. If it wasn't for the deals on this at Wal-Mart, wouldn't have all the wonderful birds visit that we do.
And they also bring some sanity and leverage into our lives, which is necessary for all.

-- July 18, 2006 6:55 PM ∞

---

VALERIO919 wrote:

IM NOT NEARLY AS INTELLEGENT AS MOST OF YOU, BUT I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE SOME NID, AND I DON'T MIND IF THEY END UP WORTHLESS. JUST AS I DON'T FRET WHEN MY LOTTERY TICKET DON'T WIN, I DON'T REALY EXPECT IT TO. I PLAY KNOWING THAT THERE IS A CHANCE I COULD, I JUST WANTED TO HAVE A TICKET. I DON'T SEE HOW THE NID CAN RV WITHOUT THE FUNDS TO BUY THE DINARS BACK. CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AFTER STABILITY AND GROWTH ALLOWED PROFIT FROM EXPORTS TO BE GATHERED IN THE IRAQI PIGGY BANK TO REBUILD AND PAYOFF DEBTS, AND THEN AFTER THAT THE AMOUNT OF THE WORLDS MONIES THEY HOLD FROM THE EXPORT SALES ALONG WITH THEIR OWN MONIES, WOULD FACTOR THE AMOUNT THAT THE DINAR COULD BE BOUGHT BACK FOR. THE ONLY OTHER FACTOR IS HOW MUCH DO THEY HAVE IN ASSETS, AND HOW FAST CAN THEY PRODUCE IT. IF THE NID SOMEHOW TAKES A HUGE GAIN AS SOME EXPECT, AND WE ARE ALL IN LINE TO CASH IN, WHERE WILL THE MONEY BE COMMING FROM? I NEED ONE OF YOU WISE MEN TO EXPLAIN THIS TO ME IN SIMPLE MANS TERMS

-- July 18, 2006 8:18 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Iraq, UN postpone launch of economic programme

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAC855752.htm

BAGHDAD, July 18 (Reuters) - The Iraqi government and United Nations have postponed the high-level launch of a major economic recovery programme for several weeks, officials said on Tuesday.

Senior diplomats and officials of international institutions had been due in Baghdad on Thursday to launch the International Compact for Iraq but the senior Iraqi minister involved said the war in Lebanon obliged key participants to change their plans.

"It has been postponed because of difficulties in getting high-level people into Baghdad, especially because of what's happening in Lebanon," Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih told Reuters. He denied there were any fundamental problems.

Israel pounded Lebanon for a seventh day on Tuesday in response to the kidnapping of two soldiers by Hizbollah guerrillas, who have also fired rockets on northern Israel.

U.N. officials and Western diplomats closely involved in preparing the meeting confirmed the postponement, saying it could now take place in late August or early September.

The Compact is, broadly speaking, a five-year plan, involving Iraq's neighbours and wealthy foreign powers, to revive the potentially oil-rich economy after decades of war, sanctions and now vicious communal bloodshed.

Among key initial goals is winning relief on debts run up by Saddam Hussein with Gulf Arab states. Western states have already forgiven Iraq much of its debt but Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, the biggest Gulf creditors, have been taking their time.

end

Hey Valerie.. here's the best way I can explain it. Dinar or any currency trading is just like trading any commodity ( oranges, oil, lumber, ect.) No matter what happens in the world there will always be a basic need for these items and therefor this would set up a demand for a market driven price. In the case of the dinar, there is an unstable govt., uncertainty of the governmental financial future however, there is a basic need for a currency to buy groceries and necessities. The market has set this value at 1477 dinars per 1 US dollar. As political tensions ease and commerce begins to improve people and companies will need more of this currency for spending, building, taxes and payrolls. There will be a greater demand for the currency so value of it will rise. When spending goes up it strengthens the Govt. by tax base and creating stability for future govt. spending. People will begin to increase their trust in their currency. The currency is only as valuble as the people supporting it. If no one supports it, Govt or public, then it will become worthless.. much like the Saddam Dinars. To learn more go to http://encyclopedia.com/html/f/foreigne.asp

http://encyclopedia.com/html/m/money.asp

http://encyclopedia.com/html/c/commodit.asp

I hope this helps..

-- July 18, 2006 10:01 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Tuesday, July 18, 2006, 8:06 PM PDT

JERUSALEM (AP) Israeli military says small number of troops have entered southern Lebanon searching for tunnels and mines.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

=========================================

More bad news folks...

Outlaw

-- July 18, 2006 11:21 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Taylor,

Ok no more slamming of Taxmama....I must say though, half of the board "revealed" their secret origin of their Dinarpurchase.

Dont care what anyone say, that was a fun move...and admit it Taylor, you laughed too.

Outlaws comment said it best.

-- July 19, 2006 12:38 AM ∞

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DinarDuchess wrote:

Does anyone know if the savings accounts at Warka are insured against robbery, fraud looting etc. Thanks

-- July 19, 2006 5:37 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

DinarDuchess.....

I know they don't have FDIC coverage for their accounts but their AK-47 coverage for robbery is quite good.

-- July 19, 2006 6:40 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

US looks forward to more open Iraq economy

Paul Schemm
AFP
July 18, 2006

BAGHDAD -- The US commerce secretary and his Iraqi counterpart signed an agreement on Monday to enhance commercial relations and improve Iraq's investment climate as the massive American reconstruction program draws to an end.

Carlos Gutierrez visited Baghdad and declared his support for Iraq's attempts to open up its economy - though his delegation's vision of the future direction of the Iraqi economy appeared to be more ambitious than that of the Iraqis.

"It's important that the government of Iraq carry through on promising liberalization and reform measures recently undertaken," said Gutierrez in a speech before assembled Iraqi government officials and business leaders as he laid out his support for Iraq's economic efforts.

The event, organized by the American Chamber of Commerce, Iraq, featured a small trade fair focusing on the communications companies working in Iraq and a handful of private-public firms.

Communications, particularly mobile phone use, has been one of the few bright spots in the Iraqi economy with 7 million subscribers signed up in the last three years.

Officials recognized that the lack of security in the country was a serious barrier to foreign investment, and other than Iraq's massive oil reserves, there is little to attract foreign investors.

One US diplomat predicted that "oil will be lubricant" to future investment.

"Our focus in the beginning will most likely be developing local domestic investment and then over time see foreign investment looking seriously at Iraq," said Gutierrez, describing future aid in the form of training, advising, and capacity building.

The secretary's visit follows up on that of US President George W. Bush and his promise to send trade officials to Iraq to help with the process of opening up the economy.

It also comes as the administration's $22-billion reconstruction program runs out at the end of February.

US Undersecretary for International Trade Franklin Lavin said that the most important thing right now was to get the necessary legal measures in place and then start privatizing the many public sector industries.

"There are 59 state-owned enterprises that they have to do something with," he said, adding that they would be looking at the next six to 12 months closely.

Iraq's minister of commerce Abdel Falah Al Sudani told reporters that the investment law would be sent to parliament by the end of the week.

"The legal framework for investment in Iraq has been developed but not completely implemented," he said, predicting that it would go into effect by the end of the summer.

Privatization, however, is not something that is going to be rushed, maintained industry minister Fawzi Hariri, adding that he did not see it happening for at least five to 10 years.

"We believe in privatization, but we also believe in preparation, we have to prepare to privatize," he said.

Announcements by US officials in the Coalition Provisional Authority soon after the fall of the old regime in April 2003 that radical privatizations would be the rule of the day in the new Iraq provoked an uproar in the country and fears that the state's patrimony would be sold off to foreign investors.

Suspicion over foreign control of the economy and Iraq's oil and mineral wealth to this day has made the country reluctant to open up the economy to foreign ownership.

"Iraq is very socialist," said Hariri. "We need to educate ourselves," adding that the first order of business was to get parliament to pass the necessary legislation.

"Once these are in hand we can look at a case-by-case scenario where we can get the maximum benefit for Iraq and the industry itself strategically," he said.

-- July 19, 2006 10:43 AM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq PM hints at expelling Iran opposition group
(AFP)
19 July 2006

BAGHDAD - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki said on Wednesday he was looking for ways to end the presence in his country of the Iranian opposition group, the People’s Mujahedeen of Iran.

“The presence in the country of this organization violates the constitution,” he told a press conference, accusing the organization of interfering in Iran’s internal affairs.

“This organization has been behaving as though it is an Iraqi organization,” he added, emphasizing that it is labeled as a terrorist organization in the United States and the European Union.

The group’s activities are supported by its political wing, the National Council of Resistance in Iran (NCRI) which has offices in France and Germany and carries out lobbying efforts against the Iranian government.

While the PMOI is characterized as a terrorist group by the United States and EU, it has many supporters in the US Congress and British parliament.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/focusoniraq/2006/July/focusoniraq_July93.xml§ion=focusoniraq

-- July 19, 2006 1:17 PM ∞

---

Sara Madgid wrote:

Malki: peace initiative to be launched Saturday

Baghdad, July 19, (VOI) – Prime Minister Nouri al-Malki said on Wednesday a national reconciliation initiative declared last month would be launched on Saturday as planned.

“The higher commission for national reconciliation will meet on Saturday to launch the initiative practically…according to the plan we announced before,” Malki told a news conference after a cabinet meeting.

Malki and other government officials have said over the past few weeks that former opponents of the political process have shown readiness to join the peace plan according the to framework outlined by Malki late last month.

http://www.aswataliraq.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=23476&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

-- July 19, 2006 5:41 PM ∞

---

Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Regarding the slamming of TaxMama:

I have no wish to draw this situation out, but I do think a lesson should be leart from this situation. I think everyone likes to hear rumours and speculation about inside sources that can have an influence on all of our investments. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but the difference with Taxmama's 'insider information' was that it was stated in such as way as to be taken as gospel, fact and as good as a done deal.

We (hopefully) all learn from our mistakes and I for one was gullible enough (or greedy enough, depending on your view) to fall for the news of an imminant RV by 45% that was stated as going to happen on a certain date. This led me to buy a large amount of additional dinars, as I saw that the prices to buy would soon be inflated.

By all means share rumous, tips, speculation, wild ass guesses - that's what we are all here for. Just PLEASE be responsible for the information you are giving out and say what validity the source of that information has so that we can make informed decisions about the integrity of that information for ourselves. (as Taxmama has SINCE done)

P.S. I don't regret my additional purchase, I just resent doing it on the back of information that turned out to be false, but what written as if fact.

NOTE TO SELF: Hide cheque book in safe and throw away key.

I don't belive slamming anyone in such a way as Taxmama received was justified or in anyones interests. We should not be looking to shut off all flow of information from any individuals here, just learn how much faith we can put in that information. Let us not forget the good advise and help also given regarding levels of taxes due etc that was given by Taxmama. I still believe she had good intentions.

-- July 19, 2006 6:37 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Thank you, Nellie B. You are quite correct, I had excellent intentions.
I received what I perceived to be accurate and exciting information and passed it along. I learned quite a lesson there.
I am a business professional as a tax accountant and financial planner for 29 years. I have not enjoyed such a loyal and outstanding clientele by intentionally passing along incorrect information. Many of my clients have been with me in excess of 25 years. I am proud of my reputation with them and in my community and would say or do nothing to cause inaccurate information that would lead someone to take action that could cause any financial harm in any way. I am sorry you acted upon my "inside" information, but glad that you are not now regretting it.

I will, of course, if posting any other information I receive, give the source.

Thank you for the lesson.

-- July 19, 2006 6:53 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

I dont believe anything will be happening of any significance until the events in Israel and Lebanon play itself out and we see which direction this peace initiative goes that al-Maliki will launch on Saturday.

-- July 19, 2006 10:37 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

I did plan to buy more Dinars, but, based on report from an "impeccable" source, that a revalue was very very imminent.I stretched it, and bought, from a very expensive source, just to get it quick.

Don't worry Taxmama, I'm not pissed on you, I'm pissed on myself for believing in you.

I'm aware of more people on this board that went out and bought in panic.

For myself I can't blame anhyone other than myself, my own greed. I had planned to buy anyway, but I would have done it in another much cheaper way, if not for a panic message.

Now you're apologizing and now everything is nice and ducky, we're going to forget about it, be a happy bunch of civilized people and move on.

Sure, but I have a feeling you have to work really hard to get back any kind of respect from this point on.

Trust is easy to get, but once broken, it's very hard to mend.

-- July 19, 2006 10:46 PM ∞

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tony luchese wrote:

Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is for the first time when I write a message in this website.
I don't have an opinion about the NID. Some of you might know me from Baghdad - I do recognize some of you here.
The reason I write here is because I want to sell NID (about 3/4 of a million), and I want to find a buyer. It is too small amount to list it on Ebay.
The dinars I have are good, I have'em from the Iraqi National Bank where I exchanged myself.
There are guys among you that can vouch for me right here on this website.
The dinars I want to sell are the only I have. I am trying to sell it not because I know something you don't/ I just need the money.
For contact, email at tonyluchese@yahoo.com
Thank you very much.

-- July 20, 2006 12:30 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Roger and Nelly B.

I for one did not purchase additional Dinars based upon what Taxmamma had posted. I refuse to be carried by every wind of rumor and speculation.

I am content with the amount of Dinars I have. If Taxmamma's information had been correct then I would have what I have.

Regardless of the positive information posted on this site or in the news; it does not necessiarly mean we run out and mortgage the farm. In contrast, because of negative news from Iraq we do not throw the baby out with the bath water and liquidate all we have.

I really believe patience and prudence will win the day.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 20, 2006 10:24 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraq's Top Shi'ite Cleric Calls for End of Sectarian Violence
By VOA News
20 July 2006

Iraq's top Shi'ite Muslim cleric has called on Iraqis to unite and warned sectarian violence could destroy the country.

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani urged religious and political leaders, tribal chiefs and others to exert maximum efforts to stop the killing.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-07-20-voa12.cfm?rss=1

-- July 20, 2006 1:18 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Breaking with U.S., Iraq jabs at Israel
New York Times News Service
Published July 20, 2006

BAGHDAD -- Iraq Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Wednesday denounced the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, marking a sharp break with President Bush's position and highlighting the growing power of a Shiite Muslim identity across the Middle East.

"The Israeli attacks and air strikes are completely destroying Lebanon's infrastructure," al-Maliki said at a news conference inside the fortified Green Zone, which houses the U.S. Embassy and the seat of the Iraqi government.

"I condemn these aggressions and call on the Arab League foreign ministers' meeting in Cairo to take quick action to stop these aggressions. We call on the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression."

The militant Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr, whose followers play a crucial role in the government, said Friday that Iraqis would not "sit by with folded hands" while the violence in Lebanon raged. Sadr commands a powerful militia, the Mahdi Army.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0607200241jul20,1,6181029.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Care to comment, Carl?

Sara.

-- July 20, 2006 1:22 PM ∞

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DinarDuchess wrote:

Thanks Okie, you cant beat an AK-47 for insurance

-- July 20, 2006 1:50 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Rob N.

You did right, you showed a cool head, and had more of a critical mind than I had in this affair.

I did plan to buy, at the time I did'nt have the ammount of Dinars that I considered being my goal.

So I was cought at the very exact point in time, when I was ready to do my additional purchase.

So it's not that I regret buying Dinars. That was already in the works, but I had researched more economical ways to do it and was just about ready, when the panic call came.

So much for that.

Again, trust is easy to get,but once broken it's hard to mend.

-- July 20, 2006 2:06 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Hello Gang...

Just a quick note to say for what it's worth, I personally know Tony Luchese. He was stationed with me in Baghdad. We bought our Dinar at the same place. I can vouch that he's an honest guy (He's a cop) and I know his Dinars are good.

If your wanting to buy a small amount of Dinar... He's your man.

Stay safe Tony,

Outlaw

-- July 20, 2006 2:24 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

US says Iranians witnessed N.Korea missile test
Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:19am ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One or more Iranians witnessed North Korea's recent missile tests, deepening U.S. concerns about growing ties between two countries with troubling nuclear capabilities, a top U.S. official said on Thursday.

But U.S. officials have long said that Iran and North Korea have been collaborating and have expressed serious concerns that cash-strapped Pyongyang was keen to sell missiles and possibly also nuclear material. "Our understanding is that North Korea has had a number of commercial relations in the Middle East with respect to missiles," Hill said.

North Korea-Iran ties are of even more concern now as the militant Islamic group Hizbollah, which is backed by Iran, is trading rocket fire with Israel, Hill and Republican Sen. George Allen of Virginia said during the hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-07-20T151923Z_01_WAT006092_RTRUKOC_0_US-KOREA-NORTH-USA.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

-- July 20, 2006 2:33 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

IDF: Hizbullah built mass bunker network

Senior Northern Command officer tells Ynet that soldiers killed in Lebanon Wednesday were part of mission aimed at uncovering 40-meter deep poured concrete bunkers along border. Despite challenges, army determined to complete operation
Hanan Greenberg

A senior IDF Northern Command officer told Ynet that Hizbullah has set up an extensive underground bunker network not far from the Israeli border.

Vice Premier Shimon Peres also mentioned the issue of the bunker network during a recent meeting with European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana. “Hizbullah dug tunnels under extensive areas of south Lebanon and rigged the area with a half ton of explosives,” Peres said.

The IDF defined the operation in the area as “shaping the border.” Wednesday’s operation, which ended in two fatalities, revealed the challenges the army would have to face to reach this goal. The destruction of Hizbullah bases along the border is only one aspect of the activities, and this mission too is steeped in no small danger, as hundreds of kilograms of explosives have been planted in the area.

Hizbullah has built a sophisticated system of bunkers, constructed of poured concrete, some of them equipped with communications systems. The IDF knows if they don’t demolish this bunker system, there will not be quiet along the border after the operation in Lebanon.

The IDF called on hundreds of thousands of southern Lebanon residents in dozens of villages and town to evacuate their houses for the north to avoid coming to harm. The IDF intends to extend it attacks deeper into Lebanese territory, up to a couple dozen miles from the Israeli border. The army is aware that hundreds of thousands of Lebanese have evacuated, but many more remain in the targeted area.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3278675%2C00.html

-- July 20, 2006 2:59 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Rob N.

I too was planning to buy more, as and when I could afford to. As it happens now, I've bought up to what I am happy with for the forseeable future.

If the dinar train is carrying a big payload, I will buy Taxmama a very large drink at the hogroast. If the train comes off the tracks and gets wrecked, I only have myself to blame. I broke the golden rule of investing by spending more than I could afford to lose. No-one made me do that. I made a choice and am prepared to work off the loss it that happens, but I don't think that is likely. In the mean time I'm paying about 5% for the money I borrowed for my ticket. I'm comfortable with that.

-- July 20, 2006 6:11 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

NellY:
As I see it, the only way we can lose is if the entire middle east region goes up in flames from expanding conflicts...then most certainly the Iraqi Government as it now exist will no longer be....
If the source of the heat can be extracted from the pot of water...the probability of having a pot boiling over is slim....so lets hope the more level headed leaders of the world will remove the heating fuel of an expanding middle east conflict...

It looks like we are going to set on the dinar for a while...because if the slide continues...the Shia and Sunni are determine to have their little civil war....in Lebanon it lasted 15 years...
Iraq is anyones guess...

I see some good movement in that the new Iraqi PM has and is removing several key securty personnel as I write this...for failure to act and stop the milita's from spreading ethnic discourse...

Lets keep our fingers crossed

-- July 20, 2006 6:34 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I like the part about moving money in and out of Iraq. This could be for the stock exchange. Looks good to me!!_
______________________________________

Iraq cabinet passes foreign investment law
Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2006

Baghdad

Iraq's cabinet passed the country's first postwar law to regulate foreign investment, hoping it will attract badly needed cash to revive the country's shattered economy.

But the legislation, which also requires parliamentary approval, does not cover investment in upstream oil production and exploration.

The law gives Iraqi and foreign investors equal shares in investment projects, except in land ownership.

It allows investors to move money in and out of Iraq with few obstacles, according to a draft obtained by Reuters, and also requires that at least 50 per cent of the employees in a company should be Iraqis.

http://www.tradearabia.com/tanews/newsdetails_snECO_article108498_cnt.html

-- July 20, 2006 7:00 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Interesting data found on FMS.Treas. Gov

You might want to go there and analyze things yourself. One ineresting aspect I found is that there is a lot of countries out there with a currency exchange to the dollar, that is well below Iraq Dinars.

Its not uncommon at all to find currencies in the 1000 to 10.000 range.

Zambia 3350
Venezuela 2150
Colombia 2477

There is more of them, also countries where the exchange range is even bigger , Zimbabwe 119500.

Nuclear nations, rich in oil, like Iran 8229.

Seems that if it gets in the class of Turkey with it's 1345000 Lira exchange rate, you end up in the painzone, and they now have the new Lira at 1.57.

Compare those plus more with Iraq and an exchange rate of 1477 to the Dollar, and you find that Iraq is in no panic to zero loop.

What I found interesting is that Iran with an exchange rate of 8229 to the Dollar, selling it's oil on the Dollar based market have no intention of zero looping.

Even if you look at industrialized countries, very very few have a value above the Dollar.

You get a bundle of Indian Rupies, and Russian Rubles, for a Dollar, both nations have nuclear, and space industry.

Nations that have extensive trade, and strong manufacturing base, like Japan and China, same thing there, you get a bundle of their currency for each Dollar.

Comes to show, that the number on the currency doesnt mean anything other than denote a unit to the bill.

A lot of countries have a good working economy, and an extensive manufacturing base, and get a complete bill of health, and still operate their monetary units with a lot more numbers than the Dollar bill.

If I swap a fish for a coconut and it has equal value, then it does'nt matter if I use one djingaling, and still get a fish for a coconut, or ten djingalings, as long as I get my damn fish for my coconut.

One historical reason to redo currency, is when the denominations are so big, and you need so much physical bills for simple dayly tasks, that the money handling in itself will stop you from ordianry life. Germany after WW1 had a galloping inflation, where the money prints were spewing out inflated Deutchmark. At the end there, it was bizarre, you had to have bags of money for grocery shopping. Iraq is nowhere near any problem of that sort, and they're in a completely different economical situation where they have inflation but under control, and their currency is probaly worth more than it is sold on the market now.

If the proposed zero loop is an attempt to be closer to Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia in currency, to look good, or if this is an attempt to do a zero loop for some status reason, it's off the mark as a reasonable or even necessary thing to do.

-- July 20, 2006 7:13 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Carl,
Naaa. I think there is other winds blowing now. Have been follwing this Middle East closely, both on TV and the net.

I checked in on Al Jaazera, and followed up a survey done, it was a pretty extensive one, asking the arabs, who was to blame for this crisis.

In the past you could see a 100% blame on Israel for anything, what was interesting, is that the "Israel Blame Factor" is now down to about 30%, and choices like Iran, Syria and Hezbolla,are getting high numbers.

You may also have noticed how completely silent the Arab leaders are.

In the past, this is where they were screaming themselves to a point of horsevoice, proclaiming this and proclaiming that.

Its the old, resistance to change, but at least the above stated shows that they are not blind, deaf and dumb.

Changes are coming.

-- July 20, 2006 7:30 PM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Roger!
I hope you are right!!!!

-- July 20, 2006 9:58 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Me, too, Roger!
I hope you are right, too!

Sara.

-- July 20, 2006 10:41 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I think this merits a "Thank You, God!"

Sara.

===

Arab Majority May Not Stay Forever Silent

By YOUSSEF IBRAHIM
July 17, 2006

Yes, world, there is a silent Arab majority that believes that seventh-century Islam is not fit for 21st-century challenges. That women do not have to look like walking black tents. That men do not have to wear beards and robes, act like lunatics, and run around blowing themselves up in order to enjoy 72 virgins in paradise. And that secular laws, not Islamic Shariah, should rule our day-to-day lives.

And yes, we, the silent Arab majority, do not believe that writers, secular or otherwise, should be killed or banned for expressing their views. Or that the rest of our creative elite - from moviemakers to playwrights, actors, painters, sculptors, and fashion models - should be vetted by Neanderthal Muslim imams who have never read a book in their dim, miserable lives.

Nor do we believe that little men with head wraps and disheveled beards can run amok in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq making decisions on our behalf, dragging us to war whenever they please, confiscating our rights to be adults, and flogging us for not praying five times a day or even for not believing in God.

More important, we are not silent any longer.

Rarely have I seen such an uprising, indeed an intifada, against those little turbaned, bearded men across the Muslim landscape as the one that took place last week. The leader of Hezbollah, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received a resounding "no" to pulling 350 million Arabs into a war with Israel on his clerical coattails.

The collective "nyet" was spoken by presidents, emirs, and kings at the highest level of government in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, Qatar, Jordan, Morocco, and at the Arab League's meeting of 22 foreign ministers in Cairo on Saturday. But it was even louder from pundits and ordinary people.

Perhaps the most remarkable and unexpected reaction came from Saudi Arabia, whose foreign minister, Prince Saud Al-Faisal, said bluntly and publicly that Hezbollah's decision to cross the Lebanese border, attack Israel, and kidnap its soldiers has left the Shiite group on its own to face Israel.

All in all, it seems that when Israel decided to go to war against the priestly mafia of Hamas and Hezbollah, it opened a whole new chapter in the Greater Middle East discourse. And Israel is finding, to its surprise, that a vast, not-so-silent majority of Arabs agrees that enough is enough. To be sure, beneath the hostility toward Sheik Nasrallah in Sunni Muslim states lies the deep and bitter heritage of a 14-century Sunni-Shiite divide, propelled to greater heights now by fears of an ascendant Shiite "arc of menace" rising out of Iran and peddled in the Sunni world by Syria.

The sooner this is settled the better.

http://www.nysun.com/article/36110

-- July 20, 2006 10:56 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

A little more good news:

- 20/07/2006

(MENAFN) Iraq announced that it has signed a commercial cooperation agreement with the United States to move the country toward a market economy after decades of state planning, Associated Press reported.

U.S. Commerce Secretary indicated that progress in Iraq's economy hinged on improved security.

Oil is the biggest source of income for the Iraqi government, which is struggling to curb violence and restore the supply of electricity and water.

Iraqi Trade Minister hailed the pact as a milestone.

This agreement will be one of the important agreements that encourages the Iraqi economy to move from centralized economy to free economy, the minister said.

Sara and all,

Having spent over 10 years, in this part of the world during the last 25, I agree that there is a huge Silent Majority. The problem is they are still silent. Most Arabs simply want to live their lives in simple peace, make a Dinar or Rial, and raise their families. The problems are the extremist's and the Iman's. The Iman's want control of everyones lives and use uneducated and thus un-employable people as force or coercion against those that are educated, or at least have an outside view of the world. As in most of the Arab world education is in the control of the Mosques and not a State run system. The masses are taught only the Koran, and then only in the flavor of the (usually) Jihadist Iman. If all you are ever taught comes out of one book, and that is all you ever learn from cradle to grave, then you will believe what the Iman tells you. You don't know any better. If you want to look back at our Christian history we did the same thing. All education was in the hands of the Roman Church, and so we ended up with little things like the Spanish Inquisition, and some other very nasty things. Lets not forget that many times in the past it was illegal and death for somone not of the church or nobility to possess, much less read a book, including the Bible. Not pointing fingers just stating history.

I deal with Arabs and people of the Islamic faith from numerous countries every day by the hundereds. Unfortunately most, 90%+ can not read or write in their own language. This means that what they do know of their religon is second hand at best, because they can not actually read the word of their Prophet. It is ultimately the Iman's opinion that gets passed along. This is why I believe that Democracy is felt to be such a danger over here. Democracy brings education, and that threatens the Iman' and his whole position of power.

I remember being in downtown Baghdad in '88 getting drunk with a bunch of shop owners and many others from the district I was visiting. Even at that time I felt that the Iraqi's were to be feared. Not as warriors, but in the business world. They live for the Game as they put it, and the game is business. Those are the ones that will eventually make this madness stop. They are the Silent Majority we are still waiting to hear from. I hope Allah is listening to their silent prayers.

-- July 21, 2006 8:55 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Lance:
You are so correct...control the schools and what is taught...control the airwaves of radio and TV as to what information is releashed ...censor or prevent the internet...limit communication devices you have all you need to stay in power.....

-- July 21, 2006 11:23 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Lance;

It is my prayer and hope that the vast majority of those elected and placed into the positions of power in Iraq are part of that silent majority and represent them. I believe Maliki and the other politicians, by and large, are working within the framework and understanding of the silent majority.. and for their interests. They all - politician and silent majority alike - just wish to get on with life and have peace.. if only they could get the terrorists to let them all alone.

My hope is that the truth is being taught at home after they come home from the Imam's preaching at the mosque, and that they are able to have those "teachable moments" with their children when they hear of or see what the terrorists have done. Then the younger generation will learn to be tolerant because their parents are able to pass on their silent majority values to them. With tolerance will come peace and 'a future and a hope' for the region and their families.

Sara.

-- July 21, 2006 1:32 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Good information everybody is posting on the changing tide in the Middle East.
The last part of the news below indicates Maliki is on a deadline to bring Iraq under control. I believe if he doesn't take a stand against the armed militia in Iraq soon it will take him down. His first step should be to disarm his fat buddy Al-Sadr and kick him out of the country. Sadr is part of the problem and for sure doesn't fit the trend that everybody else is seeing in that part of the world.
I believe Maliki can get the job done.

=============================
Iraqi paper views premier's forthcoming US visit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21 July 2006 (BBC Monitoring)
Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki will leave for Washington in the next two days on a visit to the United States during which he will meet with his host President George Bush at a time the two men desperately need such a visit.
======================
The spectre of the increase in violence in the country will overshadow Al-Maliki's visit to Washington as this does not serve the US presence in Iraq. Iraqi sources are now openly saying that Washington has given the Baghdad government a six-month period to end violence and safeguard stability in the country. Otherwise, a national salvation government will be set up and this will mean toppling Al-Maliki's government, dissolving the Council of Representatives, and placing the country under a strong military leadership that is not affiliated to any political party or forces that will prepare the country, during an interim period which might last two years, for new general elections while placing the security forces with their various police and army groupings under the command of the US forces that will be responsible for all their field movements and activities.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php?refid=DH-S-21-07-2006&article=9492

-- July 21, 2006 7:16 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Is Iraq Another Vietnam? Not for U.S. Troop Levels
by Tim Kane, Ph.D., and David D. Gentilli
Backgrounder #1954
July 21, 2006

Each war is unique, and any comparison to other wars invariably suffers from oversimplification. With respect to troop deployments and casualties, comparing the Iraq War with the Vietnam conflict will demonstrate more differences than similarities.

Simply put, there are far fewer U.S. troops in Iraq today than there were in Vietnam in the late 1960s, and there are far fewer casualties. Second, troop levels are more stable in Iraq. Third, the duration of deployments cannot be compared because U.S. engagement with Iraq has been shorter, and the Iraq conflict is open-ended. Overall, American strategy in Iraq is less reliant on military muscle and more focused on the political and economic aspects of fighting a counterinsurgency. Focusing on political and economic development is the superior strategy, but success will require patience and endurance.

What This Means for Americans

Iraq is not Vietnam. The war in Iraq, some 40 years after the Vietnam conflict, is different both quantitatively and qualitatively. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, the ranks of the U.S. military were filled with draftees; now they are filled exclusively with volunteers. In the 1960s, policymakers focused on body counts of the enemy; now they focus on the deaths of our own troops.

Both of these measures miss the point. What should matter to Americans is the mission to secure freedom abroad, because that is why our troops join and serve. However, troop numbers do inform us and dispel some conventional myths.

First, although troop levels have held steady in Iraq for four years, the political winds in Congress have shifted from calling for more troops to calling for fewer troops. It is likely that U.S. troop levels in Iraq will decline as the war enters its fifth year.

Second, by a ratio of nearly 3:1, there are fewer U.S. troops stationed overseas today than there were during the Vietnam conflict, even though the percentage of troops abroad compared to the total force is similar. This shows that the American military’s footprint is smaller today, contrary to the myth of a new imperial posture.

Third, Iraq is not a meat grinder, nor is it more deadly than Vietnam. The number of U.S. troop deaths as a proportion of the total number to have served in Iraq is comparable to what it was in Vietnam. Though all wars are dangerous and troops endure many hardships, the argument that Iraq is especially deadly is not supported by the data. The data may, ironically, describe an overemphasis on force protection at the expense of cultural engagement.

Fourth, despite political pressure, the U.S. effort in Iraq places far less emphasis on numbers of troops. Even though there have been mistakes along the way, there has been a greater focus on the political aspect of the counterinsurgency in Iraq than there was in Vietnam.

Conclusion

The most important thing for Americans to remember about the Iraq War is that the vast majority of U.S. military personnel are serving admirably. Sadly, more than 2,500 have been killed, but they have rid the world of a murderous dictatorship that was determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction; they have killed and captured thousands of terrorists; and they have helped a fledgling democracy to beat the odds and secure roots in the Middle East. They have done all this in the face of great adversity and in a restrained manner that should make Americans proud.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/bg1954.cfm

-- July 21, 2006 8:09 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Iraq's police overwhelmed by violence

By Dan Murphy, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Fri Jul 21, 4:00 AM ET

BAGHDAD - At her home in central Baghdad, Niran al-Sammarai frets over the fate of her husband, kidnapped Saturday with 30 of his colleagues from a conference hall in one of the most heavily patrolled parts of Baghdad.

In Rasafah district, a police captain says he and colleagues are contemplating mass resignations in frustration over mistrust from US forces and orders from Iraqi politicians to release known criminals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060721/ts_csm/oolympic

-- July 22, 2006 1:08 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance.

Wow, you wrote such a good piece there, I admire your insight that comes with years of experience.

Carl is right in that if you control the information, the media and censor the internet, you will control the minds of people.

China is controlling the internet, and surely have a say in what news to broadcast, but tell me Lance, from what I have been hearing, the information is free in Iraq now, isn't it? I heard that there are hundreds and hundreds of magazines, radiostations , and a flurry of TV stations.

Are they censored in any way or form?

I can understand if they are influenced from culture, and old way of thinking, but in circumstances like there is in Iraq, are the TV staations, Radio stations and papers, "pushing the limit" so to say, constantly trying to pass old forbidden lines, and try to "dare to say it" , or is it basically the same old grind day after day?

Can you say what is going on over there in that aspect, basically, are there changes or not?

Second question I have for you is:

On the recieving end, I understand that if you can't read and get your info basically as a second hand info from your Iman, you will eventually align your thinking to him.

However, my question is, nowdays, there are TV,s radios, and even though he cant read and newspapaers would'nt do him any good, then at least radio and a TV would reach him.

Is that way an influence on him, or are there big obstacles like there is only one TV in five hundred people, and no power,or some similar situation?

I really appreciate your observations, and love to get some real insiders info (for a change).

-- July 22, 2006 1:11 AM ∞

---

Seeker wrote:

Good evening one and all.
This the first time I've posted on this site but I've been viewing it for some time.
About 6 weeks ago I recieved some information from an acquaintance about idea of investing in Dinars. This acquaintance had recieved the information and some Dinar from a close relative. After being presented with the information, I as a responsable individual I believe myself to be, started doing my homework. I started looking on the WWW for every piece of information I could find. I GOOGLED. I YAHOOED. I used every resource I could think of to get more information on the validity of the information I had recieved. This search is what brought me to this site. Of all the places I've viewed,I believe this one to be the most valuable.
I believe this page brings to the table the best melting pot of ideas,opions and sources than any other I have viewed. With this many people, each doing thier own research, and sharing it here with thier opions and ideas has tought me so much and opened my eyes to alot more. What I read here are the opions and ideas of real people like me. People with dreams and desires. Opions and ideas, strengths, weaknesses and EMOTIONS. Sometimes the emotions get the best of the conversation, but thats what gives this place flavor and life. Most sites are slanted either one way or another. For Dinar, against Dinar. For the bird in the hand, or the bird in the bank.

Just to be upfront I HAVE invested in the bird in the hand.

Now after that long winded introduction I would like to address my reason for breaking my silence and op-ening my big mouth.

First, I believe I personaly am souly responseable for the information I receive, how I use it or react to it. I don't believe it's right to blame somebody else for my decisions. Especially when that source is only trying to share some information they have received and believe to be real. I personaly only believe, or try to only believe in documented facts.

Next, I do not believe there will be ANY advnace notice to a RV of the Dinar. I'll simply wake up one day and I'll either be rich or the train will have stopped and I'll get off, trade in my ticket and possible make a small return on my investment.

Lastly, in a twisted turn of the cosmos and information I have read here, I believe I personaly know who TAXMAMA is. I believe her to be the close relative of the acquaintance that originaly introduce my to the Dinar Train. If that is so I can attest to her integraty and her truthfullness when she say what she says she is "A CPA" She has a large vested interest in where the Dinar goes. She is not MISSDINAR. Her handle "TAXMAMA" comes from when she used to ride shotgun with my aquaintence in a semi on the hiways of this great land we get to call home. I understand her reasons for not divulging the source of her Dinar purchase's and respect it. I also know the source of her information and know it to be a genuine source. Though I must say Taxmama, in my search for information I checked out your source and decided it is one I personaly have chosen to stay away from. I believe the DOC has a personal adgenda and I don't want to be one of his victims. Not to say some of his information isn't exciting. It feeds my lust for information and excitment and provides good food for thought. I just can't blindly trust it, his track record isn't that good.

With ALL that said. Taxmama, if you are who I think you are, rest asured your personal info is safe as I have made a commitment to our common acquaintance to not share what I know. I simply want to share with the rest of this board, that you are a real person and the only personal interest you have in the Dinar Train is the same one EVEYBODY else here has in that we all would like to see it turn into a super freightliner and deliever the goods. Your informational source is genuine and what we do with that information once shared is, or should be, our personal responsibility. Please do not stop sharing, give us more, I personaly have not reached overload capacity yet. Though a little documentation would be nice. If no documentation is available then a word of caution would be nice.

SOooo, from the outside looking in I want to thank you all for your information and opions. IF I ever come accross any fresh info not already posted here I'll greedily share as I feel I owe it to the cause.

Thankyou for the space to share. Later
Seeker

-- July 22, 2006 2:58 AM ∞

---

Lance wrote:

Roger,

Unfortunately you are wrong in most but not all. First the right; Yes there is freedom of the press here in Iraq. But that is a double edged sword. Back to that Iman. With him being the savvy person that he is, he is now controling the local papers/rags (which most are) and also owns the local radio station. So when you go to prayer, you are actually hearing the Iman tell you to only read or listen to "HIS" approved story once again. Another thing that struck me about your comments were how American they were. Not a bad thing, it just really showed. I am assuming that you were born an raised an American (like I was), in a basically Christian society. But the other thing that struck me was your view that every Iraqi has a TV, Radio, access to a News Paper, not to mention the internet. Yes many Iraqi's have this, but the vast majority do not.

I just returned this AM from visiting another Camp over here morning. This is a few of the things that I saw: Children of school age (Saturday is off) begging along the highway for food or money, naked boys swimming in a oil polluted pond, people living in tents with no water (using the same water the boys were swimming in) to drink, not to mention no electricity at all, children herding their families camels, etc.... And this was by the hundereds, and not just an isolated group. This was in the rural areas between cities/towns. In the actual towns it is just more cramped and crime ridden. So instead or a family of 8 in a fair sized tent, you have whole extended families of 20+ living in a one room apartment with no running water or electricity. News in the towns is gotten at the Sidewalk Cafes, where the men gather to discuss the news. Many of these are under the auspice of our infamous Iman or even worse the local Warlord/Sheik. So any discussion is going to be in the context of how the local winds are blowing, for your own, and families self preservation. Really not so different from small town America where I call home. You go to the local diner and meet and greet all the people there, have coffee and discuss politics or how the corn is doing this year. The only difference here is that Big Brother is watching, a spy for the Sheik or Iman. Granted this is not happening everywhere. But enough to make a difference.

So there is censorship at the local level. And the censorship is in most cases just self preservation. This may be hard for many who do not live here, or have seen what it's like, to really understand the way it is for the common Iraqi. I had actually studied long ago the Arab culture years before I was ever came over here. Thought I understood what it was like and was thus fully prepared to take on the Arab world. Now I understand that I still don't have a clue for many of the cultural differences even after all this time. This is just one of those cases where you actually have to be born in this culture to understand it fully. I have great respect for the Arab and Islamic cultures when they are not blowing people and things up. But do I truly understand them? Not by a long shot, and I deal with them every day.

I have said before, and will shout it again. The only thing that will eventually stop this madness is education. Unfortunately it is a generational process that will take many years. Let me give you just one example. I deal with local (Iraqi) Truck drivers over here on a regular basis. You can believe me or not, but 90%+ have no idea of how to read the speedometer on their dashboard, or even know what it indicates. It's not that the Iraqi's are stupid, which many people say, it is just that they are uneducated. I find many if not most of these uneducated actually very smart and savvy. They work very, very, hard to send their children to school so they can have a better life in the future. Many make less the $3-5.00 a 12 hour day performing grueling manual labor. This is the opportunity that we (America) have given them. And for that, the majority of them are thankfull that Saddam is gone. But can you imagine sitting in your LazyBoy watching CNN, that this is actually a vast improvement for these people. I do know that it is, but freedom is never free, and almost always painfull, and this is the lesson the Iraqi's are learning.

Ok, Roger, I have pontificated enough. And none of the above is directed at you or anyone else. It is directed at our American and some times blind culture. But for all that it, is still the best in the world, and thank God I am an American.

-- July 22, 2006 7:05 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Roger and All,

Current temperture is 120.2 here, so another lovely windy day in Iraq. One more story before I call it a day. I use this story as an example to friends back in the States to show them at least one cultural difference.

Ahmed the driver has just hit another truck becausing he wasn't paying attention, causing damage to both. Now I witnessed this and he knows it. Now I as the American ask him why, and he tells me that his wife is pregnant and having a baby, and was rushing to get home. I remind Ahmed that last week he was rushing home because his wife had died. Amed tells me that that was his other wife, but she's all better now. So Ahmed tells me that he was rushing today because the sun was in his eyes and he didn't see the other truck. I remind Ahmed that the sun has set. So Ahmed tells me that it was too dark to see. I remind him that he has his light on. Ahmed at this point is frustrated because I will not accept his excuse. So he pulls the big one out of the hat. "En Shalla" or Gods Will. At this point nothing else can be said, as Ahmed has placed the blame on God.

Now if I was an Arab, at some point in the above, we would have reached an agreement after the 2nd or 3rd lie. For in Ahmed's view he was never really at fault, but by compromising and never telling the real truth that we both knew, he feels that he has won. So one of the things I have learned over here is never to get to the En Shalla stage. For once Gods Will is invoked, it is all over and there is no further chance of discussion. It is sort of like Catholic Confession without the priest. You just forgive yourself, because it is God's Will!!!

By the way. Ahmed and I still talk. Last week he forgot and told me he had never been married. And yes the story is true. You just got to love this place!!!

-- July 22, 2006 7:39 AM ∞

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Terri wrote:

I agree with Seeker's comments about Taxmama --

Taxmama, anything new?

-- July 22, 2006 10:06 AM ∞

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Carl wrote:

Lance:
Just read your post about the Iraqi people and what you observe everyday there....that is one of the best articles I have ever read about the Iraqi people, and this includes newspapers, editorials,magazines, etc...
Well thought out, well written, greatly appreciated..
Kudo's to you and your abilities to express yourself and observations well..
I for one would like to see more of these observation post from you...

-- July 22, 2006 10:22 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I just received an e-mail from Warka Bank in Baghdad regarding the current status of their on-line banking. I opened an account with them over a year ago while in Iraq and have always communicated with them by manual mode (e-mails & phone calls)so this is a big step forward for them.
This is offered as "information only" and nothing else....
Talk about changing times...note where this guy slams the previous regime....if he had done this a few years ago, he would get a one-way ticket to chop-chop square.
==========================================================

Dear Mr. xxxxx

Thank you for choosing our bank and taking interest in our fine services.

We look forward to assisting you in all your financial and investment requirements in Iraq by providing you with our very best banking services and customer care ensuring your total satisfaction and comfort.

I would like to bring to your kind attention Warka Bank for Investment and Finance is the first Iraqi bank among all its competitors to be utilizing advanced technology and implementing the latest online banking version where you can do various banking transactions at the tip of your fingers.

We are currently implementing the highest security features on our online banking system where we are using a special encryption line supplied by VERISIGN Company which along with the existing firewall will prevent cyber theft and the unwanted entry of hackers. A password will be given to our client where he or she can feel free to change it as they see appropriate.

Online banking is at the final stages of completion. all that is left is establishing a communication link with the outside internet server of which our dedicated technical staff are working around the clock to implement and hopefully will be resolved as soon as possible, details of which will be provided to you accordingly.

Unfortunately all these minor problems and delays are due to the previous regime not paying any attention to the building of the Iraqi infrastructure.

A password will be provided to our esteemed client by our E-Banking department once the online banking application form has been completed, signed and submitted by the client to the
E-Banking Department e-bank@warkainvestmentbank.com

Access can be obtained by visiting our website www.warka-bank.com and clicking the online banking icon.
Login using your account number and password and enjoy the experience of the many unique services that our bank has to offer.

Below is the complete list of diversified services that will be provided by our esteemed bank.

Account Balances which Contain:

- Display Accounts: Actual accounts held at the bank
- Cheque Book Request
- Money Transfer
- Stop Cheques Request
Inquiries:
- Internet Statement: Transactions applied while using online banking.
- Open Period Statement
- Currency Exchange Rates

MAINTAIN CLIENT INFORMATION:
- Change Personal Information
- Display Personal Information
- Change Login Password

MAINTAIN INTERNET LC:
- Apply for internet LC
- Internet LC drafts
- Send LC from template
- Show sent LC status
- Import LC inquiry

CUSTOMERS NOTES:
- View notes
- Send a note to the bank.

In order to meet all the requirements of our sincere clients ensuring the very best banking services and quality performance we provide the following additional services:

Phone Banking:
- Balance Services
- Money Transfer Services
- Administration Services
- Cheque Book Services
- Card Services
- Bank Facilities

SMS Banking:
Receive up to date personal transaction movements.
Transfer of funds from bank to bank and purchase of ISX stocks online will be implemented once the necessary features have been updated and upgraded.

For any further information and inquiries regarding online banking you are kindly requested to address your questions directly to our Electronic Banking Department
e-bank@warkainvestmentbank.com and they will provide you with their full cooperation.

If you would like to participate in obtaining a visa card through our bank all you need is to provide us with the following information:-

 A requisite from your good self applying for the issuance of a visa card through our bank.
 An authorization letter signed by your good self authorizing Warka Bank for Investment & Finance to make all the financial operations and settlements.
 A copy of your passport or any official document.
 Specimen of your signature duly attested.
 Two small photographs taken recently.

After receiving the above information we will proceed with taking the necessary steps needed for issuing your visa card after confirming that the below information is completed and sufficient :
1. You must have a USD currency account with our bank.
2. We will draw 105% from your account as a guarantee for issuing the visa credit card. i.e. if you wish to have a visa card with USD$1000 we will draw USD $1050 in advance as a guarantee.
3. We have two types of visa credit cards:
- Classic with annual fee of USD $50 its limit is USD $300 – $5000 US$
- Golden with annual fee of USD $100 its limit is USD $5000-$10000.
4. You must completely fill the enclosed application form personally signing it by your good self.
5. You can obtain an additional visa credit card for your family members with the same fees and variable limits.
6. Warka Bank for Investment and Finance will provide the client with a monthly statement containing all the transactions and payments made thru the visa credit card.
7. All postage and phone fees will be charged on the client's account.
For any further inquiries or information please contact our Visa department visa@warkainvestmentbank.com to provide you with their full cooperation.

Best regards,

Mohammad K. Issa
Manager
International Foreign Relations Dept.

-- July 22, 2006 11:23 AM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Lance,

I'm spellbound of your postings.

I dont have a clue where you want to go in your life, but I must say that you have an ability to write.

You have one of those abilities very very few writers have.

When you read a very good book from a very good writher, suddenly the book you're looking at, dissapears, and you sit in a movie. You dont see the physical book, the physical text, and pages, you see living moving pictures.

Few writer have that, you have that.

I had a friend once with the ability of an exact tone. He could have been anything on the music scene. Last I saw of him, he was a beer drinker, and was turning a stop/slow sign at road construction sites.

Lance, with the ability you have, use it, and you will go far.

I'm very impressed with your writings, please drop in often, share your observations, and please forgive some occasional Americanized dumb question.

I have personally been in over 25 different countries, but mostly western or asian countries, and the arab culture is still a bit of a mystery for me. I've been there but it was a very short stay, and I consider it doesn't count.

I can see you have had a very long timespan over there in different periods, now, have you percieved any actual change in the arab world since your first time around over there.

That is an impression over here, it might that we have gotten favourable news clippings, and at least a change for the better is what we want to belive.

Your description of the day to day life did fully communicate, but looking back since, I believe you mentioned your first time around was 1988, thats 18 years.

I know the homefront has change since then, and I suppose no society stays static.

-- July 22, 2006 11:53 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Outlaw;

I saw that news yesterday you posted.. which stated:

In Rasafah district, a police captain says he and colleagues are contemplating mass resignations in frustration over mistrust from US forces and orders from Iraqi politicians to release known criminals.

I was thinking it was not wise to release known criminals in any country.. ????

There is a lot of hopeless news stories about Iraq lately.. and I was thinking how I could answer in a general way about that when Lance - not this Lance who posted from Iraq.. and super posts they were, too.. appreciate it, Lance.. - the IIF Lance.. he posted a post which said it better than I would have. So I asked his permission to post and he granted it. Here is his post which I liked very much:

Did you hear what Bush told Putin at the G8? Putin had just taken a jab at Iraqi democracy, saying that Russia would form their own democracy not one like Iraqs. He got a few laughs from his puppets, then Bush replied with two words. "Just Wait". Forget the American media people, they have an agenda right or left they are politically transparent. Watch how the world views Iraq. The world views Iraq like a goldmine. Who has ever left a full goldmine? Lance

Sara.

-- July 22, 2006 2:52 PM ∞

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Jimmy P wrote:

Taxmama, I too believe in Dr. Q. His entire association is both informative and reliable. I and at least a dozen of my pals from work have had numerous dealings with them and love the calls that bring new and current perspective to this life changing endeavor.

If anyone would like a wake-up call on what is behind the Lebanese border battle, check out this site:
www.americancongressfortruth.com

Thank you

-- July 22, 2006 3:55 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Lance:

Your recent posts are exactly the kind of insight and experience that it seems impossible to glean from any media source coming out of Iraq. I found them extremely well written, thought-provoking, informative, poignant and humerous in a ironic way.

This kind of post is priceless and very involving. I agree with Roger, that I can see your text as images.

Please keep them coming.

All the best.

-- July 22, 2006 5:00 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

90% CAN READ THIS WITHOUT PROBLEM.

THE BIRAN CAN RAED BY LOKOGN AT FRIST AND LSAT LTEETR, AND AISCCAOTE THE MAENNIG. MY QUSIOTEN IS WHY IS IT IPMARTONT TO LAREN SEPLLNIG IF YOU UDNRETSNAD AYWANY?

That's way a computer is dumb, and the human mind is in charge.

The outcome of the Dinar train could have been easy if all the variables could be programmed into a "Brainiac" machine, push the button and it would tell exactly when where and how to invest.

The problem is, there is no computer that can fathom the human mind, it's intuition, ability to postulate, and calculate.

Economics, and finances is pretty easy to calculate, as this are abstract figures, machines looove those.

Probably the whole Iraq finacial and economical situation could be fed into a big machine, and the financial measures recomended by this machine given the data at hand, would probably be, not too bad.

Thats where the whole equation ends, we're waiting not on machines, but on humans to get their thumb out of ...you know what, and do something.

So, (have you heard this before).....wait and see.

-- July 22, 2006 9:15 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

All:

After observing for sometime and commenting on occasion. I think one must purchase the amount of Dinar one is most comfortable with and wait to see how the events in Iraq unfold.

I do agree with a previous post postulating a sudden re-evaluation. I do not tend to lean toward an RV where the Iraqi Dinar has it's zeros lopped. I know some of you disagree.

George W. Bush's comment to Putin further bolsters the U.S. unwaivering committed to a democratic Iraq. Though I am not a seer or a prophet, once U.S. reconstruction funding expires this will catalyize the government of Iraq to RV its currency.

I believe the end of reconstruction will mark the time where the Iraqi Dinar will come into its own value; without the necessity of a zero lop.

Once the Dinar opens on the currency markets, its value will continue to rise slowly until it is unit for unit with the other currencies in the area. This all may be my wide eyed optimism, but I can see the rationality of it playing out this way.

If I am right, I better be buying more Dinar as I type this line. Opposing opinions are welcomed

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 22, 2006 11:04 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Good morning all,

I thank you for your kind comments on the previous posts.

But please don’t be deceived into thinking that I have any special knowledge of what is going on over here. Actually your sources may be better than mine as you can get a broader array of information from the MSM and other sources, and probably have more time to investigate. This is one case where I am, in many respects, too close to the problem(s). 99.99999% of what I observe over here has nothing to do with the economics of the country. What I do observe is the end result too the common people, and that is from a stand-off distance due to security concerns. Sorry, but I have no wish to join the men in the Sidewalk Café’s, and become a target. I can only relay what is told to me by the people after they have left the café’s. So much is second hand. But talking with numerous of them you begin to get a fair assessment of what is going on. I hope it also gives you a little local color. Likewise I don’t send these people out to find out what is up with the Dinar. I would love to, but I won’t jeopardize them for information that would increase speculation (on our part), might not be accurate at best, and they might give me information that is “Just to please me”, be far from the truth, and possibly endanger them. So I try not to ask direct questions about their money. Only if they bring it up is it discussed. So, I will pass along the common Iraqi’s view, as best as I can determine.

The IQD “Is” the currency of choice. It is not the U.S. Dollar. Dollars are still horded because they are considered much as Gold is, always solid and tradable, as a hedge against the next disaster. But that is the way it is in almost any third world country. The currency of choice in the street here is the IQD.

The Iraqi’s have no concerns about the IQD being the Bremmer Dinar. It is now “THEIR” Dinar. Much more durable (physically). And stable as it can’t be printed on a Xerox machine. This is why I tend to stay out of the debate on the re-issuing a “NEW” currency. I just don’t see it happening, and the locals would be up in arms. Same applies to the ZERO Lop. They actually laughed at that idea. Took me quite a while to explain what that meant. But of course this will be a political and financial decision made by the government in coordination with the IMF and World Bank, and who ever said that they would do the right thing.

So that is the extent of my “Local” knowledge on the IQD. Not much when you look at it, and definitely not something to make you go out and invest in more.

The good news from my observations is, that the Iraqi’s are better off then they were under Saddam. They will even tell you so, on a one on one basis. They have hope now, but it is overlaid with the fear that it won’t continue. Most of them want the militias’ to go away and let them do business. They also really resent the foreign Arabs telling them what to do and think i.e. the Mosque’s, Iran, and insurgents. They were never a very religious people to begin with, and this whole sectarian thing has them worried and scared, because the government as of yet is not strong enough to impact their lives directly, and the local Sheik/Iman/Mulla does. Until the government can affect the Sheik/Iman/Mulla, the locals will continue to go with the safest wind.

All, please remember that what I hear is not necessarily the truth. The Iraqi’s that I deal with, will sometimes only tell me what they think I want to hear, and not necessarily the reality of the situation. But because I deal with numerous, and get pretty much the same feedback from all, it appears to me to have the ring of truth. Much of that is being able to “Read” between the lines of what is being said. But that is normal operating procedures for any dealing with any Arab. That is just the way they work, and another of the cultural differences. They very seldom, will directly tell you what you want to know.

-- July 23, 2006 1:07 AM ∞

---

Lance wrote:

Roger,

Now, good afternoon to all. You all need to be on my time frame, it seems that I am talking to myself because of the Time Zone thing.

You asked how much has changed in the years of my involvement over here in the Middle East. So here are probably too many points to ponder:

1. What is truly sad, is the loss that is felt throughout the entire ME of security. Blame it on the radicalism of a few in Islam that have made their religion a religion of hate. The common people hate them, but also fear them. Everyone fears the person or group that has the ability to harm their family.
2. It used to be that I could walk and go anywhere in the ME back in the late ’70s and ‘80’s with no fear. Now I wouldn’t be caught dead in many, if not all of those places. Yes the fear is palatable.
3. In conjunction with the above you see a more stratified and class based society. The have’s and the have not’s. The gap has really widened. More poor or lower middle class, but now a very larger group of the super wealthy. Not much in between. Sorry to say that it is beginning to look like the pre-Civil War southern society. Owners and slaves. In many cases the slaves are not of the wealthier’s tribe, ethnicity, or country. Very racial. Didn’t used to be this way. But I think ultimately this will go away. We just have the beginnings of a very affluent bunch at the top who consider themselves Royalty whether they are or not, and thus look down on the little people.
4. Kuwait is a good example of a slave state. If you are a Kuwaiti, then you are rich, even by our standards. The Government actually pays you to be a Kuwaiti, and to make even more little Kuwaiti’s. Reverse taxes, in that the government pays them (from oil money), and not what we do back in the states. If you are not a Kuwaiti then you are nothing. If you are of say Indian or Pakistani descent and were born in Kuwait, you are still not a Kuwaiti. Even if you spend your whole life there you won’t, and can never be a Kuwaiti. If you are brought in as a guest worker you must pay a Kuwaiti to sponsor you, and at age 21 if born in Kuwait, but not of Kuwaiti parents, you must start paying a sponsor whether you have a job or not. If not, and you can’t pay then you will be deported back to your home country that you have probably never seen or been to. This sponsorship varies. In most cases you will actually be a slave, and at the end of your contract, end up owing the sponsor more then you were paid, by whoever hired you. Example: A domestic hired for a year contract may be offered $2000.00 a year. (Far more then they would have made in their home country, and yes that is only $2,000.00 not $20,000.00). Now the sponsorship fee would probably be $1,500.00 for the year that you pay to a Kuwaiti Sponsor. So out of the $500.00 that they may see, they must provide much of their own upkeep. I will mention that most of the domestics are from the Philippines, and at least 3-5 times a year one of them is killed by their master for failure to provide for his sexual pleasure. And these are just the most obvious that make the news in Kuwait. (FYI the Master’s usually only pay a fine for killing one of the Domestics. Allah forbid that a True Kuwaiti spend time in jail.) Pay is better for the higher trained people (computer programmers, electricians, etc…), who actually get a bigger percentage to send back home to support their families. I actually have many friends that are Kuwaiti’s, it is just sometimes hard to digest their culture. But I keep reminding myself that it is their culture and not mine, and they see no problem with it.
5. There are more of the poor. This is a fact supported by numerous surveys and studies done internationally. And like any commodity the more there is of it, the less you have to pay for it. So wages have become slave-like, where they are only working to survive and eat. They are never given enough to save or better themselves with. And if they quit, there is always a long line of other even more desperate people to take their place.
6. Education. Yes that again. Read my earlier posts to see why this is important. But without State Sponsored education, and it being mandatory, none of the above will ever go away. They need to get out of the religious schools where the Jihadism is taught.

What I feel is sorrow for the common Arab as they have become marginalized. Things have not improved, but gotten worse under the Saddam’s of the ME. In some cases the ones we call our friends; Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and yes even the Kuwaiti’s have improved the lot of the poor. But there are many others that have only made it worse and are actually exporting the Jihadism along with their own poor to other countries. No need to tell you which ones they are. Iraq is a totally different story. The invasion has turned them into something else, but I’m not sure they know what it is, or where it is going. We will just have to wait and see. But I have hope, and so do the majority of them. This is what makes this whole situation so interesting despite the blood that flows, and the pain of finding out where they are going. To my mind, this would be like watching the American Revolutionary War as an outsider, and seeing where the experiment goes. Let us hope that this experiment turns out as well as that one did.

-- July 23, 2006 6:22 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Lance;

That was EXCELLENT posting and gave much food for thought. Thank you.

Sara.

-- July 23, 2006 12:46 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Lance....

Your thoughts and understanding of the area is appreciated by all. Those of us who have spent some time in the ME can truly relate to it.
I laughed out loud as you told how they create a lie to avoid confrontation with the truth...that's true with a lot of them. Take care.

-- July 23, 2006 2:14 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Lance:

Though I have not served in the military, I appreciate you giving members of this forum a breif insight into the lives of the Iraqi people.

Governments and regimes come and go, but when the Iraqi people finally rise up against the Islamic extremists only then can Iraq form a true democracy. A government for the people and by the people (sound familiar).

Our American Revolution stands as the standard for the rest of the world. It accompished what the French Revolution could not, which was equality and freedom for all the people. The world community will have to wait and see if Iraq can rise from their own internal secterian violence and enter the world community with those vast Oil and Gas reserves.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 23, 2006 2:41 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Lance;

Your description of your dealings with the Iraqi's, caused me to flash back to my own dealings with the LN's. (Local Nationals) and I started laughing. Very enjoyable and accurate!

Thank you for reminding me that not all of my experiences in Iraq were bad. I remember the serious looks on their faces while their telling you these wild stories... Classic!

After a while you understand that these people really aren't stupid, but only that they have never been taught to do the simplest of things... things that one takes for granted as being learned by everyone in life... NOT SO! This brings a sense of sorrow towards these people and seeing this first hand, makes one really appreciate their own roots back home in America.

Thanks again... Be safe my friend.

Outlaw

-- July 23, 2006 2:43 PM ∞

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JJ wrote:

when the old swiss dinar with sadam's face on it was exchanged, the locals got 150 NID per old dinar, so a revalue with a zero lop really wont hurt people who had large amounts of old dinars

-- July 23, 2006 5:03 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance,

Again, you've got my total surrender. Seems like you have a complete approval from the board, and I'm one of your fans.

I'm seriously proposing that you should write a book. Perhaps you already have had that in your mind. All the ingrediences are there.

You have the gift of writing that few have, you are there seing hearing things others dont see, and perhaps some have it in front of their eyes but dont percieve it, like you do.

You have have spend a long time there, and have a long and indepth understanding of things.

If you're going to write a book or not, I dont know, perhaps you have another calling.

You certainly have the ability to write one.

May I suggest, save old letters, call friends and ask for copies of old mail, start getting your photos together, diaries, logs and other records.

That will be an excellent base for either your documentary book, memoir book fact book, or whatever gendre you want to write it in.

You are a very special person, and modesty aside, I think you have a clue about it too.

I just hope your abilities will not be waisted writing endless goverment reports , filed and recorded, no one will read.

Or you go back to your civilian life, and end up as a DOT officer at a truckscale, giving tickets to trucks without mudflaps.

All civilizations rests on very few shoulders, and is carried by those that took the step.

Perhaps it was ment that you should be there, and write about it.

I have never seen this kind of reporting before, FOX, CNN, CNBC, to name a few, is doing 15 seconds bits.

They leave a puzzle, but no one have reported from the Middle East a such complete picture like you are doing, with one train of thoughts connected with the next.

Maybe the world needs a book from your perspective.

Maybe that book will be the one that made the difference you're yearning for in the Middle East.

With the right marketing, it might be a best seller here as well as over there.

Lance, you do what you want to do with your life, I'm just wishing here.

At least promise me this, kick it in your head a couple of weeks or so, and dont make an instant decision about it.

-- July 23, 2006 5:45 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Lance, I have to say I agree with Roger wholeheartedly on this one. You certainly have the ability and no doubt the insight and information that would make for a very compelling read.

I think with so much interest directed towards the Middle East now and almost certainly for a long time to come, this could be your own personal ticket on the Dollar Train! There is definetly a gap in the market for this. I'm not a big reader, but I would want to read a book filled with stories like your posts above, about Iraqi / Middle Eastern culture from an American's perspective.

Of course, you need to want to write it, but if you need any more encouragement here, just ask.

-- July 23, 2006 6:20 PM ∞

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sjjjjj wrote:

braking news just coming

-- July 23, 2006 11:35 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

TB Family,

Enough already. I write to inform, because I like to. But even more important, I look at myself as an observer of History. Which is one of my passions. I am mainly just watching, and write only for myself, a few friends, and family. I tried writing professionally but way to opinionated to succeed. I also found it a very painful experience which I did not enjoy. I find writing opinion pieces fun and would sell my children if I could be George Will or Art Buchwald.

To restate, I read TB for years before I made my first posting about a month ago. I am not a writer as such, I leave that to the professionals like Sara. Her thoughtful and insightful posts are the ones that leave me breathless. It was a dark day for TB when she went on sabbatical from this site. She fought the battle against the immature that were posting, and I would assume felt that it was a lost cause for a while. One of my happiest days was seeing her return. Tentative at first, but soon returning to her position of the un-official moderator and guide, keeping all in line. Thank you Mother Sara. Without you this would be dull indeed.

If you take the time to read back over the years that this Blog has been active, you will see how it has matured. Not just a place for Dinar speculation and rumor, but a place for discussion stretching from God to Toilet Humor. This is why I think of you all, as extended family and friends. This is also why I will not post on the other Dinar Sites. I read them, but find them juvenile a majority of the time, with guesses, speculation, lying insider information, and ugly personal assaults. I can also tell when you all are posting on the other sites. Your individual styles stand out against the hordes, not to mention Avatars with similar names. Or at least its fun to guess. It is just that I refuse to get into that all that. I look at TB and you all, as my relaxation, and a mind expanding experience. Working 12/7 takes a toll and TB gives me a chance to relax, ponder, and laugh.

Myself; I am one of the evil contractors over here. I leave it for you to guess who writes the Paycheck, or at least writes it to my wife. 22 years active duty in the military, and not going to say what branch. In Baghdad before the ’91 war, and then back again for that whole shooting match. Also spent much time in other locations throughout the ME in the late ‘70’s and most of the ‘80’s. Retired many years ago, and successfully ran my own company then sold it. Bored to death after that, so took a position back over here, because I love this part of the world. Been around the world 7 complete times, and too many almost made it’s to mention. High School Drop-Out, but have 2 Bachelors Degrees concerning absolutely nothing I do now. Having one of the best times of my life doing what I do here.

Ok, that is enough about me. I will continue to post Local Color as I get a chance, but will always try to make it neutral, so as not to increase speculation or make you think I have insider information (which I don’t).

Now let’s get back to the Dinar discussion. RV when and how much? Come on folks!!!!

P.S. If I wanted to commit suicide again and try writing another book, my first choice would be one about this Blog. Now that would be worth it!!!!!!!!!!

Lance

-- July 23, 2006 11:43 PM ∞

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dsfsdf wrote:

again this is breaking new

-- July 23, 2006 11:48 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

What breaking news? Post it already, LOL

-- July 24, 2006 12:49 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

I have and am checking all news sources, Bob.. I have not seen anything noteworthy that is new.. at least concerning the Dinar investment. Perhaps it is news related to the greater Middle East and the conflict with Lebanon which this poster was speaking of as "breaking new"?

So far as I can tell, PM Maliki is currently in the UK for talks..

Iraq PM in UK for talks
Published on: Monday, 24th July, 2006

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki arrived in London yesterday ahead of talks with Britain’s Tony Blair aimed at reviewing progress made by Iraq’s national government. The two men are due to hold discussions today and will examine plans to continue the handover of southern Iraqi provinces from coalition forces to local authorities, Blair’s Downing Street office said. Al-Maliki is also expected to comment on how the current conflict between Israel and Lebanon has affected his country.

http://www.7days.ae/2006/07/24/iraq-pm-in-uk-for-talks.html

-- July 24, 2006 1:45 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance,
Sorry you have keept us so spellbound for a while, I have to rattle my brain to think about Dinars.

Dinars...Eh...yes Dinars are good.

-- July 24, 2006 1:49 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraqi PM makes first visit to Britain for Blair talks
(AFP)
24 July 2006

LONDON - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was to hold talks Monday with British counterpart Tony Blair, on his first official visit..

His office said he was accompanied by Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari and Oil Minister Hussein al-Chaharistani and would discuss ”the two essential dossiers of security and economic development” in London and Washington.

The Times newspaper said Monday there were signs of progress in Iraq...

The daily said it expected specific details...

“Lebanon commands the headlines but it is in Iraq that the future of the Middle East hangs in the balance.”

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2006/July/theworld_July596.xml§ion=theworld

-- July 24, 2006 2:06 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Roger,

Stay off of the Prozac. Or either take more, if you are having that much of a problem remembering DINAR. I know the feeling. I used to have a drug problem too. Used to shoot up marijuana seeds. But it gave me lumpy veins. Had to quit when they started to germinate. :):)

-- July 24, 2006 9:10 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Hello all.. I just pulled this off a conversation on aboutdinar.com It was fun to read..

What??? No one wants to play??? It's really quite easy. Read the information about the various neighboring countries. Then simply "slot" Iraq in the spot where you think their currency value will eventually reach. Here's where I think it will end up within a year:

Libya: 1 (LYD) = .73 USD
Land Mass: 1,759,540 sq km
Population: 5,765,563
Government Type: Military Dictatorship (stable)
GDP: $37.48 billion (2006 est.)
Assets: 1/4 GDP is from oil. Petroleum, iron and steel, food processing, textiles, handicrafts, cement, wheat, barley, olives, dates, citrus, vegetables, peanuts, soybeans; cattle. 3,900 oil reserves in million tonnes.
OPEC Member

Iraq: 1 IDinar = .0007 USD {.32 USD Projected}
Land Mass: 437,072 sq km
Population: 26,074,906
Government Type: The Iraqi Interim Government (IG) was appointed on 1 June 2004. Interim Government Constitutional Parlimentary (Federated) Democracy. (semi-stable)
GDP: In 2004, the Iraqi GDP was $25.5 billion. 2005 projections were $29.3 billion. $54.4 billion gdp (2006 est.)
Assets: Petroleum, natural gas, phosphates, sulfur, large agricultural potentia (wheat, barley, rice, vegetables, dates, cotton; cattle, sheep, poultry). 13,400 oil reserves in million tonnes. 10% of potential reserves have been explored. IMF projections 2 to 2.5 mbpd for 2005-2006.
Before U.S.-led forces defeated Saddam Hussein, whose government also heavily subsidized gas prices for consumers, average annual oil production in Iraq was 2.5 million barrels per day. Iraq has large water sources many were dammed up and drained by the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein.
OPEC Member

Saudi Arabia: 1 SARiyal = .27 USD
Land Mass: 1,960,582 sq km
Population: 26,417,599
Government Type: Monarchy (stable)
GDP: $310.2 billion (2006 est.)
Assets: 35,700 oil reserves in million tonnes. Natural resources include petroleum, natural gas, iron ore, gold, copper. Severe lack of fresh water resources an extremely arid environment.
OPEC Member

Qatar: 1 QRiyal = .27 USD
Land Mass: 11,437 sq km
Population: 863,051
Government Type: Traditional Monarchy (stable)
GDP: $19.49 billion (2006 est.)
Assets: Significant Oil and Natural Gas reserves third largest in the World. Limited natural fresh water resources are increasing dependence on large-scale desalination facilities.
OPEC Member

-- July 24, 2006 10:13 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraqi PM says foreign troops will not take years to leave Iraq
Posted: 24 July 2006 1938 hrs

LONDON : Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, on his first official visit to London, has said his fledgling government was making strides toward ending violence in Iraq and enabling foreign troops to leave.

Speaking on BBC Radio before meeting British Prime Minister Tony Blair later Monday, Maliki added that his government was grappling with both a sectarian conflict and violent crime, but that Iraq would not descend into civil war.

He also confirmed a report published last week by the UN Assistance Mission for Iraq which said a total of 5,818 civilians were killed and at least 5,762 wounded during May and June this year.

He added that Iraq's elected political leaders were "working on putting an end to the sectarian issue and there is continuing efforts in that direction. The civil war will not happen to Iraq."

Asked how long foreign troops were needed in Iraq, he replied: "Definitely not decades, not even years.

Iraqi troops took over control of security from British and Australian forces in the southern province of Muthanna on July 13.

Maliki hailed the transfer as a "historic milestone" in an opinion article published Monday by the Wall Street Journal.

"Iraqi forces there are now not simply operating independently, but have replaced 1,400 coalition troops. This is a crucial first step in a sequence of events ultimately leading to Iraq standing entirely on its own."

"As the first of 18 provinces to transfer security responsibility, al-Muthanna is a test. And it is one with real potential to succeed," he wrote.

Maliki said several other provinces were close to achieving required security levels. But he cautioned that current estimates of transferring security responsibility in half of Iraq's provinces by the end of 2006 would depend on achieving the conditions for transition.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/220934/1/.html

-- July 24, 2006 11:45 AM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Iraqi Reconciliation Panel Optimistic

By Andy Mosher
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, July 23, 2006; Page A15

BAGHDAD, July 22 -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's program to bridge the widening divisions among Iraq's religious, ethnic and political factions took its first concrete step forward Saturday. A high-level reconciliation panel held its first meeting, with its members voicing optimism about the task ahead while offering fresh evidence of how difficult it could prove.

The Supreme Committee for Reconciliation and National Dialogue, intended to bring together representatives from the widest possible cross-section of Iraqi society, met inside Baghdad's fortified Green Zone. Afterward Maliki, President Jalal Talabani and Parliamentary Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani met with reporters, and the prime minister proclaimed that "coordination and dialogue based on democracy had found their way to the light."Iraqi Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, left, with President Jalal Talabani.

The panel's first session brought no new pronouncements; rather, Maliki said, its role would be one of gradual "initiative launching," with practical measures and details to be worked out over time.

Maliki, who heads a ruling coalition of Shiite religious parties, stressed that the committee was open to all Iraqis and said he had been in contact with some of the country's armed factions about their participation. However, as with his initial announcement of a 24-point reconciliation plan one month ago, differences emerged over which armed groups might be excluded.

Maliki stopped short of including groups that had killed Iraqis or Americans, saying "all those whose hands were tainted with blood should be brought to justice." But Mashhadani, who represents a Sunni Arab coalition, said "anyone can join the reconciliation process."

"If we punish a person who killed an American soldier, who's considered an occupier, we also should punish the American soldier who killed an Iraqi who fought against occupation," Mashhadani said, adding: "If a person killed an American to defend his country, in another country they would build a statue of him."

The U.S. military reported that two American soldiers were killed Saturday. One died in eastern Baghdad when his vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb; the other was a victim of small-arms fire south of Baghdad. Neither was identified.

The divisions among Iraqi factions were likewise visible on the streets of Baghdad. In the Furat district of western Baghdad, gunmen in two cars without license plates attacked a group of Shiite construction workers, killing seven, according to Lt. Col. Salman Abood of the Interior Ministry. Later, a mortar attack in Amil, a mostly Sunni area, killed five people, news services reported.

U.S. troops clashed with Shiite militiamen in Musayyib, about 40 miles south of Baghdad, in a three-hour gunbattle in which 15 gunmen and an Iraqi soldier were killed, U.S. officials and Iraqis said, the Associated Press reported. Also, in the western province of Anbar, 10 Iraqi soldiers traveling in a convoy near the village of Karmah were killed by a roadside bomb, according to the AP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/22/AR2006072200746.html

-- July 24, 2006 12:25 PM ∞

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Nelly B - Investor wrote:

Interesting post Taylor.

I'm not asking you to find out, but it would be nice to know the amount of currency in circulation in each of these middle eastern countries.

In Iraq, the magic number is around 6 trillion dinars, as I think you found out (if I recall correctly)

Maybe I'll look into that as well. I think that also has a significant bearing on the potential rise of the Dinar. Remember that it was largely through Saddam printing vast quantities of additional (old) notes around 1991, following the Kuwaiti incurrsion, that the old (and hence current) notes were massively devalued. As I understand it, the number of dinars in circulation has actually increased since then.

-- July 24, 2006 1:40 PM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

Thank you for your kind words, Seeker.

My Satellite feed that powers my computer at our 2nd home was out for 3-1/2 days.
No Truck and Barter or any computer information - almost went into withdrawal.

Just got caught up, back in the office.
Yes, Lance, stay on the system here. Your wisdom, insight and information is badly needed.

This site is an excellent learning tool.

Dr. Quddouri does not beleive there will be a zero lop. He has stated that more than once. fyi

-- July 24, 2006 2:38 PM ∞

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outlaw wrote:

Bush, Maliki to consider adding troops in Baghdad
Reuters - 1 hour, 38 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki will consider adding more U.S. and Iraqi troops in Baghdad and other ways to counter surging violence when they meet at the White House on Tuesday. Bush and Maliki will consider new approaches to quelling the bloodshed in and around the capital after Maliki's security plan for the region proved a disastrous failure.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060724/ts_nm/bush_iraq_dc_2

-- July 24, 2006 2:48 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

The Insurgency
Wednesday, 21 June 2006

The Insurgency:

The insurgency in Iraq consists of myriad anti-Iraqi Forces and their supporters who are engaged in guerilla warfare against Coalition and Iraqi security forces and use terrorism to strike fear in the Iraqi populace. Their tactics include, but are not limited to, suicide bombings, improvised explosive device attacks, kidnapping, rudimentary sniper techniques, mortar attack, rocket attacks, and murder.

Insurgent activity is centered in the Sunni-dominated parts of Iraq, primarily the areas to the northwest of Baghdad and between the cities of Tikrit, Ramadi, Samarra and Fallujah. Sunni Arabs, including Ba’athist and former elements of Saddam Hussein’s regime, Saddamists, sometimes collaborate with international Sunni Arab terrorist networks, providing funds and guidance across family, tribal, religious and peer group lines. The foreigners include jihadists led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s terrorist network, al-Qaida in Iraq, AQI. Together, these groups work to perpetuate a reign of terror designed to breed havoc in Iraq.

Some of these anti-government elements are clearly groups drawn from the former regime, the Ba’th Party, the paramilitary Fedayeen, and the Republican Guard. Some are anti-Saddam nationalist groups with no desire to see Saddam restored but resentful of U.S. and Western presence; others are Islamist groups, some members of which have been trained overseas or are foreign nationals, the latter including Syrians, Saudis, Yemenis, and Sudanese. Some activities have been the work of criminals or criminal organizations, large numbers of criminals being released at the end of the war and some certainly hiring themselves out for attacks on Coalition forces.

Other Iraqi jihadists groups are active, notably Ansar al-Sunnah, which operates primarily in Kurdish-dominated northern Iraq. The foreign jihadists enter Iraq from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, and Iran.

Most of the victims of jihadists suicide bombings have been civilians, innocent bystanders. This has been especially true since Coalition and Iraqi security forces developed tactics and deployed better equipment to protect themselves from the attacks. Among the Sunnis, a variety of groups have been identified. They are united only in the sense of having what have been called “negative” goals in opposition to U.S. presence; in seeking some return to the former status quo in which the Sunni minority have exercised power since the Ottoman period.

There are also armed militias attached to the two main Shiite political parties, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and al-Dawa, and there is clearly potential for Shiite participation in violence. The pattern of Iraqi activity thus far looks remarkably similar to that in Palestine with roadside bombs, which have also been used by Hezbollah in Lebanon, and other so-called improvised explosive devices; ambushes of soft-skinned vehicles; opportunistic rocket-propelled grenade and shooting attacks on military personnel; attacks on civilian members of the Coalition authorities and foreign personnel working in some way for the Coalition; attacks on Iraqi “collaborators,” most recently police and army recruits’ and attacks on economic targets such as power stations, oil installations, and pipelines. There has also been an increase in the number of attacks upon “soft” targets, principally civilian gatherings.

Terrorist Organizations

al-Qaida Organization in the Land of the Two Rivers
Mujahideen Shura Council
Ansar al-Sunnah
Islamic Army in Iraq
Although some named terrorist groups operate in Iraq, these categories are constantly shifting. The following is a brief introduction to some of the most well-known terrorist groups in Iraq.

For remainder of article click: http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=729&Itemid=45

-- July 24, 2006 2:56 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Very interesting Freedom Facts about Iraq:

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=5&id=17&Itemid=32

-- July 24, 2006 3:01 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

I found this and it was very thought provoking... Check out this site and look at Iraq's currency!

http://www.tradearabia.com/tatools/Worldsum.asp#36

-- July 24, 2006 3:10 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Okie;

You know your post:
http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2006/07/iraqi_dinar_dis_4.html#122329

It said in that article, quote:

"Iraqi sources are now openly saying that Washington has given the Baghdad government a SIX-MONTH period to end violence and safeguard stability in the country. Otherwise, a national salvation government will be set up and this will mean toppling Al-Maliki's government, dissolving the Council of Representatives, and placing the country under a strong military leadership that is not affiliated to any political party or forces that will prepare the country, during an interim period which might last two years, for new general elections while placing the security forces with their various police and army groupings under the command of the US forces that will be responsible for all their field movements and activities."

====end of quote====

What I am wondering is.. if things are going so very poorly as the MSM seems to project.. so that the country is in danger of breaking up.. will the US just shorten this from SIX MONTHS down the road.. to NOW.. and take over the Iraqi government?? I mean.. if it is really is that bad, it seems to me they should just get the job done properly, even if it means taking control a bit ahead of this timeline. Surely the stability of the country, even if under a US military regime, is preferrable to what these bleak reports are saying?

Perhaps I am speaking prematurely, as Maliki and here, Talabani are saying they should settle their "differences" not that the country is on the edge of breakup and Civil War...

===

People fed up, stop complaining, solve your problems, Talabani tells politicians

BAGHDAD, July 24 (KUNA) -- President Jalal Talabani called on all parties and politicians on Monday to stop releasing their differences through the media and attempt bridging them behind closed doors.

In a statement released here today he said that the "steadfast people are already fed up of of our differences made public by the media, while they stand in courage against the booby trapped cars, explosive devices, coward assassinations or any other means followed by the takfiris, Saddamists and criminal gangs." He said as any world democratic state has differences but the Iraqi "parties should turn these differences into a source of force not weakness." Concluding he appealed to all parties and political powers to be aware of this critical phase and challenges to the Iraqi democratic process.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=889888

If these negative media reports are the reality and the Iraqis are incapable of governing themselves and simply cannot get along.. if it really is hopeless.. surely the SIX MONTH period should be shortened for the good of the country and the US should take over and set up a strong military leadership over Iraq? If that is the only way to restore control.. if the MSM reports of it being out of control are correct.. then surely that is what should happen?

Sara.

-- July 24, 2006 3:41 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Iraqi Shi'ite militia ready to join fight
By Sharon Behn
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
July 24, 2006

A senior member of Muqtada al-Sadr's Iraqi Shi'ite militia, the Mahdi Army, says the group is forming a squadron of up to 1,500 elite fighters to go to Lebanon.

Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies said that the Mahdi militia's claim to be sending a force to Lebanon could be exaggerated, but that Sheik al-Sadr stood to gain a lot by sending volunteers to help Hezbollah.

"He shows he is a fighter for the Arab cause at a time when the Iraqi government cannot, which gives him support at the local level in Iraq and makes him into a regional rather than a local figure, even if it isn't real," he said.

"He gains power and status as a person seen as willing to take such risks," Mr. Cordesman said.

Mr. Mujtaba said the Mahdi militia was figuring out how to get its fighters to Lebanon without the help of the Iraqi government.

"People have volunteered ... but as this is not the government, we cannot use planes. We need to go by land," he said.

The most direct land route would be across Iraq's western Anbar province to Jordan or Syria. Because of border restrictions, Jordan would be an unlikely crossing point, Iraqis said. Syria is an important backer of Hezbollah but may not want to be seen as helping Mahdi militia fighters reach Lebanon.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060724-122256-7766r.htm

-- July 24, 2006 4:55 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance,
No no no you got it completely wrong, it's BUGSPRAY.

Admittedly, it gives you a cough, but it's easily smothed over with an after spray of break liner cleaning spray.

Outlaw,

You've given us a lot of goodies lately, thanks.

Sara,

Your last posting, will give the interesting possibility of people otherwise shooting and bombing in Iraq, would leave and be taken care of by the Iraelis.

They die here or they die there, for the score it's the same difference, but it all come down to the fact that they dont have to die just because they are ignorant and have Sad'r megaphone voice in their ears all day long.

Still I dont have a clue why this Sad'r guy is running around, free as a bird, instigating and conspiring wherever he goes.

He is personally a murdersuspect, and as such should be sitting in jail awaiting trial.

The only reason I see is fear, fear of more violence if they take him in, fear of upproar, fear of this, fear of that...

Evidently if you do a crime, it will not neccessarily be a consequense, but other factors will be weighed in.

This just shows to what extent control is asserted.

Over here, if you do this, that will happen.

That function is very much compromized over there.

What the Iraqis are missing, is a leader figure.

Unfortunately those are very far and few inbetween. In our own history I think we can all agree on about three "great" presidents. Washington Lincoln, and Roosevelt, rest is on a sliding scale.

India with Ghandi, Brittain, with Winston Churchil, after that I'm stumbling to find more, there are big ones that also were bad, Hitler Stalin, Mao, Napoleon and a few more, but they brought destruction.

Great leaders are so hard to find, but imagine one of historys great one would pop up in Iraq right now, and make the Iraq people hold hands, singing "we are the world" and "Kumba ya my lord".

At least I can wish for it, ok.

-- July 24, 2006 5:58 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Gang... Here is a site that has everything you wanted to know about Iraq... but were afraid to ask!!

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=8

-- July 24, 2006 6:18 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

By reading the daily agenda on Central Bank of Iraq's mainsite, it seems to me they're also in a waiting mode.

Issues of the day is to replace watercoolers, get spare parts for their elevators, and buy anti-virus for their computers.

Thats their "announcements" of the day, seems like another day at the office.

-- July 24, 2006 6:19 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Sara & Outlaw…….

Sara…. Regarding your previous post on the 6 month deadline….

I think the following post by Outlaw is a good summary of the situation in Baghdad. Fact is, most of the country is making very positive progress, but Baghdad is not. This creates an opening for the liberal press (AKA: I don’t like Bush, our Government or our Military) to amplify the bad news totally out of proportion. I think most people accept the fact that the armed militia groups and other gangs are responsible for the chaos in Baghdad.
Even though Maliki has vowed to disarm the militia and put them out of business he has not been able to do it. Whether it’s lack of will or manpower, he has not applied his “Iron fist” to the likes of “Fat Boy” Al-Sadr and his group of thugs. It’s very difficult for one Muslim to attack another Muslim of the same sect, so it’s a tough situation for him.
It’s understood this problem will be a hot subject between Bush and Maliki during their visit and I believe a solution will be found. I think the US will offer Maliki all the help he requests and also a very politically worded statement that results are expected, or else.
Maliki is a very strong and able leader for Iraq so I believe he will take the high road in this situation and put the Militias down.

outlaw wrote:
Bush, Maliki to consider adding troops in Baghdad
Reuters - 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki will consider adding more U.S. and Iraqi troops in Baghdad and other ways to counter surging violence when they meet at the White House on Tuesday. Bush and Maliki will consider new approaches to quelling the bloodshed in and around the capital after Maliki's security plan for the region proved a disastrous failure.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060724/ts_nm/bush_iraq_dc_2
-- July 24, 2006 02:48 PM ∞

-- July 24, 2006 6:53 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

Roger.....

I've noticed some things about your posts. When you first started posting here you would just open your creative mind and let your thoughts flow onto the page.

But.....after you announced your purchase of more Dinar..your posts took on a more serious approach and research was injected into your thoughts.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but at least you could confess to the group that you are a born again "dinarholic"...go ahead and say it...the truth will set you free.....

On a more serious note. I have a feeling you've traveled more of our highways and byways than many of us. The question is....what is the latest state of art,hardware and software, related to tapping into the WIFI hotspots around the country.
Your comments would be appreciated.

-- July 24, 2006 7:20 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Okie,

You might be right, I'm right now sitting on 30 mil Dinars, and when coming into a site, not knowing where it leads, where the mainstream is, where the discussion goes, I took on a more "float " attitude.

I am very intersted, trying to follow the thing as close as I can, and also doing research, but it seems that there are other memebers on this board that are much better in the research department than I am.

Sometimes I have a few hours, and sometimes I have less, but as a confessed Dinaroholic, I check in. I'm a very communicative person in life, (sometimes to the point of , they asking me to shut up), and when at the site, sometimes it's just a blabber posting to pose oneself as existing or something.

I'm sure Freud can explain it better.

Perhaps it's the creativieness in the whole thing. It's honestly not much to create about it, we're all waiting, and like true gambloholics, sitting in the wee hours dealing cards, just to keep an endless game going, it's hard to be Shakespeare on every posting.

It's the booooring wait, that makes us all fill in with whatever we can create.

Sometimes , I have noticed this in most all of us, when we have nothing more to say, we seem to be able to create a debate over one issue to the point it's debated to death, and when it's done , someone comes in with a new angle on the same issue.

This will immediately be a relief as now we can discuss this issue over one more time.

There really isn't much to do, other than wait and see.

That's the problem here.

We could all do one posting, where we say, wait and see, and then switch off the pjuter, and not return to the site in a few months or so.

Same difference, but I think we all choose to be here, perhaps as an extended Dinar family of some sort, and post what we feel for the day.

But Ok Okie, I can take you up on a challenge and try to come up with some Einstein stuff or something, just give me some time and let me brew on something.

(Talking about being bored, see how much I managed to create on this topic already)

WiFi, stuff, it's hardware more than anything else, no special program needed, except if you need more security. The Achilles heel in this stuff is the ease with, that a bad guy could pick up your signal, so when I need to do anything with bank accounts, social sec # , or CC cards, I make sure there is a wire there, and that my lap top is not connected via airwaves.

The basic set up is very simple, most laptops today, have a ...uh...ok, walkie talkie in them.

Truckstops, Hotels, and many restareas have a hotspot, it's basically a continouos transmitting and recieving base station that will reach between 150 to 500 feet.

I have a "sniffer" a small device you can buy at Office depot or similar stores, it's so small it's like a key chain device. You press a button and a series of diodes will light up telling you if you have signal, and if you have, it will tell the strenght of it. Cost less than 20 bucks.I've got mine hanging and dangling from my CB, and can give it a "sniff" fast and easy to check for signal.

Just because you get a signal, doesnt mean you can get in, many places charge for the use of the Hot Spot. Except for Aunt Ednas and Oncle Ernies truckstop most chain type truckstops have hotspots, and charge for it too.

Many Cafee's have hot spots, and one of the best ways to fast get a signal that is free, is to park close to hotels or motels.

I've been in industrial places where I dont have a clue who's sender it is, and got onto the net.

For somewhat older laptops, ( you know those old obsolete Dinosaurs they sold three weeks ago), you can buy a card to slip into the laptop, and that device is the "walkie talkie" unit.

If you crossbreed a centipede and a parrot, you must get a walkie talkie.

-- July 24, 2006 8:45 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Coalition, Iraqi raids net terrorists
Saturday, 22 July 2006

Story courtesy of American Forces News Service

WASHINGTON – Iraqi and Coalition Soldiers launched a new operation near Kirkuk, in northern Iraq, on Thursday, and Iraqi Soldiers captured more than a dozen terrorists near Baghdad during a seperate operation.

Iraqi Soldiers from the 4th Iraqi Army Division, and U.S. Soldiers with the 101st Airborne Division, kicked off combined Operation Gaugamela (gaw'guh-MEE-luh). The forces simultaneously surrounded and entered the cities of Hawija and Riyadh, just west of Kirkuk, searching for suspected al-Qaida terrorists.

The operation, requested by local Sunni Arab leaders, follows a series of terror attacks in the area and comes amid reports of al-Qaida terror cells in the area, U.S. officials said.

In the past five weeks, 31 Iraqi Soldiers have been killed in terrorist attacks in the region, and six policemen were killed in Hawija earlier this week. U.S. and Iraqi troops surrounded Hawija, blocking off escape routes, as another combined force air assaulted into a market in the heart of the city. The units cordoned off the area and searched for terrorist forces. Meanwhile, Iraqi and Coalition forces surrounded the village of Riyadh, about 10 miles away, and searched that city. Operation Gaugamela is named for the battle in which Alexander drove the Persian army from the city of Gaugamela, U.S. officials said.

In other news, Iraqi Soldiers from the 6th Iraqi Army Division found a newly emplaced improvised explosive device early Wednesday while conducting a patrol south of Baghdad. While the troops were investigating the device, terrorists hiding in the area attacked them with small-arms fire. When the Soldiers returned fire, the terrorists fled the area. The Iraqi Soldiers pursued them and caught 12 suspects. The soldiers traced wires leading to the device and it was removed without causing injury or damage.

Elsewhere, Multi-National Division - Baghdad Soldiers detained a terrorist at about 11 p.m. on July 18 while he was emplacing an IED southwest of Baghdad. Soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division observed two terrorists digging on the side of the road - one terrorist fled to avoid capture, and the other was taken into custody. The Soldiers discovered a weapons cache containing four IEDs, a mortar tube with mortars, rifles, a camera with night-vision capability and rifle ammunition at the site. A further search of the area also led to the seizure of a rocket-propelled-grenade launcher with rounds. The area was cordoned off and an explosive ordnance disposal team was called to the scene.

(Compiled from Multi-National Corps - Iraq news releases.)

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1124&Itemid=42

-- July 24, 2006 8:58 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Sara;

I just ran across this "Report to Congress". This appears to be the latest and makes a very interesting read on Iraq. It covers everything.

Please check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/may2006/d20060530SecurityandStabiltyRptFinalv2.pdf

Happy Reading,

Outlaw

-- July 25, 2006 12:14 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Dinar opinions and guesses. Please remember that these are my opinions and assumptions (and we all know what those mean: opinions are like As*holes because every ones got one, and assuming makes an As*-out-of-you-and-me).

Time when anything will happen:

1. After to World Bank Chapter IV is announced in late July early August. This assessment in coordination with the WB is the only way that Iraq’s “Net Worth” is evaluated, and more importantly determines to a large extent the TRUE value of their money. It will also have a huge impact on whether it becomes an international currency traded in the ISX. This may also be when the Dinar is PEG’d to other currencies or a market basket.

2. Before the Investment Law is passed by the Assembly. Granted it has been approved by the Cabinet and Ministers. But the true vote to implement won’t come until late September early October. Could be before then if they get their act together. I believe that they want their money to increase in value prior to letting the investors come in. Doesn’t make much sense to do it afterward’s as they would be allowing the potential investors to invest too cheaply.

3. Definitely before the Hydrocarbon Investment Law is passed. This is the big one, with every Oil Company beating on the door. Trillions to be made. Would decrease unemployment tremendously over here. I no longer think that Security is a big issue with the Multi-Nationals. The cost of increased security is more then covered as a very minute percentage compared to the cost of a barrel of oil. The potential loss of life to employees is negligible and the cost “$” already figured in. Believe the smart ones have already invested in the Dinar and are sitting on them. This is a cheap investment for them now with the Dinar so low, and they know that it will rise. So buying a dinar today at 14 to $0.01 becomes very attractive when later that same dinar may cost 1428% more even if the Dinar only equals one cent. Huge profit, and makes the S&P look puny. With the cost of the oil field/refinery infrastructure improvements being very large (Hundreds of Billions, and take it from me as I have seen the age and condition of the existing), the Iraq’s will want every Dinar to be worth more so they can get their cut. Not to mention that those Oil Companies will soon run out of any Dinar’s they already hold, due to the tremendous costs involved.

4. Exact date: Pick a number, any number, or date. Wish, wish wish.

Why it will happen:

1. I believe that the CPA and the interim Governments missed the boat on this one. They should have raised the value long ago. Economic stability and an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency if the people had money to go shopping with, even if it was just for food. I know this sounds simplistic, but if you are working for something of value, then you are not out making IED’s.

2. No one likes their money to be worthless. Not that the Dinar is that. It is the perceived value on the street that is important. If a loaf of bread cost 1,000 IQD or approximately $0.71, when pre-war it would have taken only 3-7 IQD to buy the same loaf, your opinion is that your money has lost most of its value and purchasing power. This is a true statement. I think the perceived and real devaluation of the Dinar is costing the Government support. You can’t win a war with bullets only; you have to better the perceived economics on the street whether real or not. Make their money worth something to them, and much of the insurgency will go away. I know that this has absolutely nothing to do with Global Economics or the World Bank/IMF, but it does have to do with Politics (re-election), and the man on the street. Bread and Circuses, as the Roman Emperors were so fond of saying.

3. I also think that there will be little forewarning to preclude additional investment in the IQD. A lot of people keep asking why this potential investment has not reached the MSM, and is only on sites like this or a few stories in financial news deriding this as a Pig-In-The Poke. Because I think this is and insider trading thing and they don’t want to announce it to the world and thus cut their own percentage of potential profits. The ISX should make billions off of this when trading does start to happen. Their big profits will come from their commissions on either end and will be fast and furious. So quiet is the word of the day!!!!!!!!

4. Because I want it to happen. Enough said on that.

How much:

1. The big issue. My personnel opinion (see above for definition), is that we are not going to get rich over night. Hope for it, but not betting on it. Some figures to bear me out; 6 Trillion IQD on the street, worth approximately 4 Billion dollars and change. Even raising the value of 1 IQD to 1 Cent raises the overall value of the dinar to approximately 85 Billion Dollars. This is why I don’t see those projections of even $0.31 as realistic, as that would make the IQD on the street worth 2.6 Trillion Dollars. Not very realistic in my view. But then I am not an economist. Iraq could very well be worth that, but how much of that is mortgaged on future developments, or just plain betting on the come? Even at 1 Cent “OUR” profit would be over $9,000.00 per million IQD. Not bad. $270,000.00+ profit for Roger alone.

2. I see a gradual rise, or even an initial RV below a penny, initiated by the CBI and Finance Ministry in conjunction with WB approval. Then let it hit the international markets and standby for the ride. I believe that they will let the markets determine what its actual value is. And it should only get better as the big Multi-Nationals pull out their Check Books.

3. The real amount I project is: Waiting for Johnny Carson to play Karnac again and tell me. OOP’s forgot he is dead too.

Other things that do affect it:

1. Baghdad. Much like Alexander the Great said about the Mediterranean, “Whoever controls the Mediterranean, controls the World”. Same for Baghdad in Iraq. The center of everything in this country. They have got to get a handle on it.

2. What really piques my interest, is that all the MSM is reporting that Security and Economics are mentioned hand-in-hand on all reports/pronouncements coming out of Baghdad. I find it very important that now Economics is on the same level. In the past it was just given passing mention. So I think the Iraqi Government is very much in step with realizing that Economics can be used as a sword against numerous of the problems they have.

Things that don’t really affect the IQD:

1. The visit of their president to ours.

2. Security overall. I think the Economics, and thus the IQD are a separate issue, and that improving the Economy is actually looked at as one of the best ways to improve Security.

3. My wife. Don’t know whether to tell her or not about the investment. So far not!!!!

4. My children. Definitely NOT. I plan on putting the bumper sticker on my new Escalade that says “I am spending my children’s inheritance!”. And I hope it is a large one!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, that is “MY” opinions of where we stand on this ride from hell. No insider info, or special insight, just my view.

Now everyone’s turn to rip me apart, and kick me!!! Come on, I won’t cry much.

Lance

-- July 25, 2006 1:51 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Outlaw,

Outstanding link, shoud be required reading for eery investor:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/may2006/d20060530SecurityandStabiltyRptFinalv2.pdf

Pages 17 to 22 of the actual document are some of the most enlightening I have read anywhere.

Thanks.

-- July 25, 2006 2:14 AM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

Outlaw;

65 pages and it all says the same thing.. we aren't leaving Iraq til the job is done, we have a plan and we ARE winning! :)

Lance;

I am NOT going to "rip" you.. I loved the points in your WHY section - in particular the first one when you said, "They should have raised the value long ago. Economic stability and an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency if the people had money to go shopping with, even if it was just for food. I know this sounds simplistic, but if you are working for something of value, then you are not out making IED’s."

I wish that would get through to the Powers That Be.. just wish it were truly known. This is so very important.. please read it again.. quote:

"an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency"
"an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency"
"an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency"
"an increased worth/value of the Dinar would have stopped much of the insurgency"

STOP.
THINK ABOUT IT.
REALIZE IT.

It isn't about us making money (though that will happen too) but about winning the war in Iraq and stopping the seedbed of terrorism in its infancy. I wish this were understood and given its rightful importance by the politicos (such as the Iraqi factions bickering in the news) so such that they would stop haggling over non-issues and simply employ the winning strategies...

They need to realize that to win, they need to employ every positive strategy and this one is KEY!!

I am hopeful that this situation will be remedied soon.

Sara.

-- July 25, 2006 2:39 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Hey whataya all doing up this late...go to bed

-- July 25, 2006 3:44 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

whataya all doing up this late.....go to bed

-- July 25, 2006 3:47 AM ∞

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Roger wrote:

ok I heard you....lights out

-- July 25, 2006 3:49 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Outlaw,

You should change your handle to: Finder of esoteric and very important Dinar news.

You must be using the NSA's/CIA's search engine.

Love the info.

Roger, it's only noon here, whats your problem.

Lance

-- July 25, 2006 4:48 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Local Color or the nightmare of Iraqi Politics. Or todays ponderings.

I hope that you have all seen the Godfather Series (movies). It has actually been a long time since I have watched it, so bear with me. I believe that in Part 2, you have a young Vito Corleone living in the Little Italy section of New York. Notice that I didn’t identify him as “Don” Vito, because he hasn’t reached that point yet. Instead he is basically a thug along with his friends. Now there is a local “Don” that runs the area (and I can’t for the life of me remember this characters name, but I remember him always wearing a White Suit and Hat), and is in-fact the local giver and taker of life, jobs, property, deals, etc… He struts around the streets receiving the accolades of the local Italians, and knowing that he is Top-Dog due to his wealth and potential to have one disappear. Even the local Priest is obeisant to him. The Don makes one mistake of over confidence by not having body guards with him all the time. Of course Vito takes advantage of this and whacks him while on an unaccompanied visit to his girlfriend. So little Vito moves up the ladder. You have to know that even in Little Italy, you still have your Police, Mayor, and local government in the background, though seldom seen or even cared about. After all they have been paid off too, or provide the locals with nothing.

Got the picture in your mind? Just change the Don into a Local Sheik wearing a White Robe and Turban, and the Priest is now the local Imam. Vito is no where to be found because he is already dead, or more importantly if the Don was knocked-off, the son from his first wife would take his place. Getting the idea now? This is one case where the old adage “All politics are local” is very much a truism. Another point is that the Sheik’s have been running these little kingdoms for thousands of years. So it is traditional. They long ago learned, that you go everywhere without protection (now called Militias), they just use AK-47’s now. Sometimes you have the reverse with the Imam on top, due to the local Sheik being weak, or in big cities where the Sheiks have disappeared or never gotten a foothold. Our buddy Muqtada al-Sadr is one of these, but he inherited his power from his father, though he does not have the religious education or training to be an Imam. He is just a bully riding on the good works that his father did and trading on the Sadr name. He is the Vito of Baghdad, or at least the loudest and deadliest of that bunch. Really was easy for him to get where he is today. Just surround yourself with young uneducated, unemployed boys, tell them they are special, give them a gun, promise them virgins, and let them go out and bully/kill people. Of course you also get to blame the evil Americans and anybody that isn’t of your religious stripe. So you create little instant terrorist buy the dozens. Works every time, just ask Bin Laden.

So where is the Representative Local Government in this? Still off-screen just like the movies. Paid-off, scared, under equipped, overwhelmed, belong to the wrong religious group, or already a member of the local militia. Take your pick. Then you have your foreign insurgents, former Bathist’, and common criminals to make it a jolly old time. Never quite sure who is shooting at you or why. You just want them to stop shooting.

The National Government; at least they are trying, but for their policies to get down to the common Iraqi, it just has to go through too many layers of greed, power, and until those local powers see what is in it for them, it will continue to be a mess. Will they win? Probably. They are at least attempting to exert their power. It is a long road, with so many players. Provincial, Local, Sheiks, Imam, and probably the guy at the 7/11 store who has a brother in the Militia. So until the National Government can exert force on the Local Powers, this will continue to be a mess. The easiest way to win is to pay (with power, privilege, money worth something, etc..) the Local Powers off, and kill those that don’t want to play ball. I do believe this is what is happening, but you won’t see it in the press stated as such. We are starting to see them going after Sadr’s henchmen in Baghdad as an initial step with the latter approach. I also hope he gets his 1,100 freedom fighters to Lebanon. Let Israel remove them for us, and give them their virgins. Hope they are disappointed when the find out that there aren’t any left!!!

-- July 25, 2006 8:53 AM ∞

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Lance wrote:

My point about Sadr's henchmen below in the news.

Raids targeting Iraq death squads

By Borzou Daragahi and Julian E. Barnes, Tribune Newspapers: Los Angeles Times
Published July 25, 2006
BAGHDAD -- U.S. military officials announced Monday that they had stepped up a campaign against death squads operating in the Iraqi capital, launching 19 raids as sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shiites left dozens dead and wounded throughout the country.

In the western Iraqi province of Anbar, two U.S. soldiers assigned to the 1st Brigade of the 1st Armored Division died in combat, and the mayor of the provincial capital was assassinated.
Although the military released no more details about the soldiers' deaths, a witness reported that a roadside bomb had exploded near a Humvee about 5 p.m. Monday, apparently killing the troops.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the top military spokesman in Baghdad, said Monday that the 19 raids were part of an effort to control the violence that has engulfed Baghdad in recent weeks. "Over the last week, we have intensified ... our efforts against death squads," he said.

The military said it had captured eight cell leaders and 37 cell members.

Meanwhile, Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, made his first official visit to Britain since his government was formed in May.

Al-Maliki was scheduled to travel next to Washington for a meeting with President Bush on Tuesday.

In violence Monday, four civilians were killed during a clash between a U.S. military patrol and gunmen, Ramadi police Lt. Muhammed Shibeeb said.

Violence has intensified in Ramadi in the past two days, killing five policemen and the mayor, Shibeeb said.

On Sunday night, Mayor Muhamed Ahmed Al-Dulami was killed about 9 p.m. by gunmen, according to a witness. Three policemen were also killed in the attack.

On Monday, the city morgue in Kut, a mostly Shiite city southeast of Baghdad, reported receiving 19 bodies--blindfolded and some showing signs of torture, The Associated Press reported. They were believed to be victims of sectarian death squads, city officials said.

In Mosul, a suicide car bomb exploded, killing five Iraqis and injuring four more.

A car bomb also exploded in Samarra, killing two people and injuring 11 others.

In Basra, British forces moved against members of al-Mahdi Army, detaining nine men and angering residents loyal to the cleric Moqtada Sadr, an official from Sadr's Basra office said.

Also Monday, the most wanted Iraqi fugitive claimed in an interview that key elements of Saddam Hussein's old army are now heading the insurgency, AP reported.

Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, Hussein's top lieutenant with a $10 million bounty on his head, struck a defiant tone in an interview appearing on Time magazine's Web site in which he answered questions sent in May through intermediaries, AP reported. Time said it wasn't clear when his answers were written.

Al-Douri, the highest-ranking figure from Hussein's regime still at large and the "king of clubs" on the most wanted list, said Hussein blundered by having his army confront the U.S.-led invasion force instead of holding it in reserve to fight a guerrilla war, but he said the old army has bounced back.

Hussein's trial resumed Monday for closing arguments, a day after the former Iraqi leader was hospitalized and fed with a tube during his hunger strike to demand better security for his lawyers, AP reported.

-- July 25, 2006 9:28 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Lance:

I believe in one of your posts you indicated that you have not told your wife about your Dinar investment. Why?

I have a very small amount of Dinar compared to Roger, but I too have not said anything to my wife. My justification centers around the volatility of the Dinar itself.

If I told her, she would stay awake at night worrying. This may not be rational, but it settles for me any guilt I might have had for not telling her.

What do you guys think? Should Lance and I fess up to our wives? How many of you are keeping your Dinar investment a secret? This is getting interesting.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 25, 2006 11:37 AM ∞

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taxmama wrote:

My spouse knows - from the beginning.
But I do have a friend, a Dr's wife who has not told him. If she did, he would be out spending it as we speak.

He's going to find out when he goes to test drive a new SUV with one of his sons and when they arrive back at the dealers lot, he will be given the key.
I think she's only going to tell him about 50% of what they have, to protect the asset, so to speak.

-- July 25, 2006 11:53 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Here's a link to a foreign currency site that breaks down a country's wealth; nation by nation. It may shed some light on my last post. I couldn't find data on the exact amount of currency any country has dispersed of its own currency. If anyone has found information like this please let me know.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/ir/colist.htm

-- July 25, 2006 11:56 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

To whose of you who are wondering about the vast amount of Dinars that are outside the country you should see this site..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_reserves

It explains in many words that the reasons for holding a large amount of your currency in reserves is to stabilize the currency. If it was all released at once the fluctuations in value would happen too often.

-- July 25, 2006 12:01 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Text of Bush-al-Maliki news conference By The Associated Press 24 minutes ago.

Text of Tuesday's news conference by President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki, as transcribed by CQ Transcriptions:

___

BUSH: Thank you all. Please be seated.

Mr. Prime Minister, welcome to the White House.

I just had a very constructive meeting with the leader of a government that has been chosen by the Iraqi people in free and fair elections.

I appreciate your vision for a free Iraq, and I appreciate your briefing me on a strategy to reduce violence and to rebuild your country.

You have a strong partner in the United States of America, and I'm honored to stand here with you, Mr. Prime Minister.

It's a remarkable, historical moment, as far as I'm concerned, to welcome a freely elected leader of Iraq to the White House.

We discussed a lot of issues. The prime minister's laid out a comprehensive plan. That's what leaders do: They see problems, they address problems and they lay out a plan to solve the problems.

The prime minister understands he's got challenges. And he's identified priorities.

Our priority is to help this government succeed. It's in the national interests of the United States that a unity government, based upon a constitution that is advanced and modern, succeed.

And that's what I told the prime minister. You know, he comes wondering whether or not we're committed. He hears all kinds of stories here in the United States.

And I assured him that this government stands with the Iraqi people.

For complete reporting of this press conference go to: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_al_maliki_text_3;_ylt=AlGxQSm5Bkl9vEVOxna356wGw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2ZGZwam4yBHNlYwNmYw--

-- July 25, 2006 1:36 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

U.S. steps up attacks on Iraq death squads

BAGHDAD, July 25 (UPI) -- U.S. forces made 19 raids against death squads responsible for the deaths of hundreds on civilians in Iraq as part of a new crackdown on the squads.

"Over the last week, we have intensified ... our efforts against death squads," he said.

"It appears it's very extremist elements from both sides out there operating, using murder and assassination as their means by which to further personal goals that they're trying to achieve," he said.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060725-074242-9625r

-- July 25, 2006 2:21 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Outlaw,

I spent most of the night reading that very interesting post you found. That was a very good one indeed.

-- July 25, 2006 2:21 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Lance,
Lunchtime in Iraq when it's sleeping time.
I dont believe it's because the earth rotates, because the earth is flat, must be some other reason

-- July 25, 2006 2:34 PM ∞

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Sara Madgid wrote:

FIFTY PERCENT of Americans Think WMDs Were in Iraq

More Americans Think WMDs Were in Iraq
By Monisha Bansal
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
July 25, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - According to a recent Harris Poll, a growing number of Americans believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States went to war in March 2003.

Fifty percent of American adults, when questioned by telephone between July 5 and 11 said they believe weapons of mass destruction (WMD) existed in Iraq before the U.S. invaded and toppled Saddam Hussein's regime.

The latest poll - indicating that the mood has shifted and half of American adults believe Saddam possessed WMDs - surprised the polling firm.

"People seem to think Iraq had these weapons even if there's not much evidence of it," said David Krane, vice president of Harris Interactive, "even if there have been some discussions about the stockpiling of weapons that may be coming out slowly, I just can't imagine that the broad public knows that," he told Cybercast News Service.

However, an Oct. 4, 2004, report by Cybercast News Service included 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service memos that revealed Saddam's purchase of mustard gas and anthrax as recently as the summer of 2000 and his extensive ties to al Qaeda.

Then in June, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.) and U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) released declassified portions of an intelligence report that they said confirmed Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction, including mustard gas. The report indicated that 500 such weapons had been destroyed by the U.S.-led coalition since 2003 and that the U.S. and its allies were racing against terrorist groups in trying to control the remaining weapons in Iraq.

"It is essential for the American people to understand that these weapons are in Iraq," Santorum said during the news conference last month.

But many skeptics remain, including retired Air Force Lt. Col. Paul Lawrence Vann, who insisted, "The American people were misled ... Belief is one thing, but facts are another," he said. "Unfortunately the American people are responding to unfounded fear of WMD in a land far removed from our own."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200607/NAT20060725a.html

-- July 25, 2006 2:34 PM ∞

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Roger wrote:

Very interesting structure of the Iraq society, and yes, it will take time, but the funny thing is, if the society looks similar in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Dubai, and it's a stable society, the shootings and killings in Iraq would not be because the society in itself is set up the way it is. I can imagine if democracy is introduced, there will be a very unique society for Iraq, but it will still be built on old principles.

Like many European countries still have Kings, dutches, and all that, but being a functional society.

Lance can you please educate a couple of americans morons on the difference between Persian and Arab.

I have not figured out if it is a different race, or different religion only.

If its different ethnic, that doesnt necessary mean it's different race.

If you take an American and a Canadian, they come from different ethnic background, but if you stand them side by side the only difference is the the Candian talks funny.

You couldnt tell any race diffrerence.

In the caucasian race group, India is actually a caucasian race. Take Joe Blow, and Mahurundi, and you can see that they are different even though they are the same race.

Persians, are those people undercover Arabs, but they like to talk differently and worship differently, but basically the same shit in different wrapping?

Can you please expand Lance, would preciajt it.

-- July 25, 2006 2:56 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

Iran president warns of spreading violence.

By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 50 minutes ago

DUSHANBE, Tajikistan - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Tuesday that the conflict between Lebanon and Israel could trigger "a hurricane" of broader fighting in the Middle East.

Ahmadinejad's nation is a major backer of the Hezbollah militant group and a sworn enemy of Israel. In his comments, he referred to a proverb that says: "He who raises the wind will get a hurricane."

"That proverb fully relates to the Middle East, which is a very volatile region," he said. "And it will be a strong hurricane which will strike really hard."

Ahmadinejad made his comments after meeting with Tajik President Emomali Rakhmonov. The two leaders signed a joint statement declaring "that the use of force against Palestine and Lebanon is unacceptable."

"All issues of international security must be resolved through dialogue, because force does not bring a solution," the Iranian leader said. "The use of force will only exacerbate the situation."

Ahmadinejad and Rakhmonov called for a cease-fire and urged international organizations to seek the swiftest possible settlement of the conflict.

Tajikistan is an impoverished but strategically important former Soviet republic because of its border with Afghanistan. Tajik and Iranian officials signed agreements Tuesday meant to boost trade and cooperation on cultural issues, labor, justice and tourism.

The Tajik language is similar to Farsi, Iran's main language.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_iranian_fallout;_ylt=As8axHAjCavcB84foYZPXICs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

-- July 25, 2006 3:39 PM ∞

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Outlaw wrote:

'Courage' transfer another step for Iraq

Sunday, 23 July 2006

By George W. Casey Jr.
Multi-National Force - Iraq
Commanding General

In Mosul last week, Coalition forces transferred control of Forward Operating Base “Courage” to the Iraqi government. This event marks the 43rd of 108 operating bases turned over since Operation Iraqi Freedom began in March 2003.

As with the historic transfer of Muthanna Province to Iraqi control on 13 July, this turnover once again highlights the increasing capability of the Iraqi Security Force to protect its people. This day should bring hope and pride to the Iraqi people of the rapid progress they are making towards the goal of being able to stand on their own feet. More bases will be transferred to Iraqi control in the coming months.

Transfer of bases to Iraqi control mark another step in the march towards democracy and the birth of a new Iraq. This palace complex, built on more than 1.4 square miles of land and including several palaces and VIP residences, was Saddam Hussein's northernmost presidential site. Now it is back in the hands of its rightful owners -- the people of Iraq. Base transfer also continues to fulfill the promise made by the Coalition Forces that as the Iraqi Security Forces continue to grow in its capabilities and ability to sustain itself, Coalition Forces will continue to turn over more responsibility to them around Iraq in areas that the people of Iraq can see

Just as transfer of Provincial Iraqi Control, transfer of these bases is a phased, conditions-based process rather than strictly a time dependant action. Coalition forces are transferring security responsibilities – including bases, tactical areas of responsibility, and responsibility for domestic security within entire provinces – as the security environment and the capabilities of the Iraqi Security Forces to conduct counterinsurgency operations improves.

Iraq is making impressive progress and Iraqi Security Forces are gaining more capability and more responsibility each day as they rally behind their freely elected government. As the Iraq security forces grow stronger and more numerous, they are increasingly taking the lead in providing security for the nation. From one brigade and 11 battalions in June 2005 to four divisions, 21 brigades and 75 battalions in July 2006, Iraqi forces continue to take the lead in securing their nation. Additional units are nearly ready to assume security responsibilities and more than 275,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Soldiers and Police are manning the front lines, protecting their nation, their people and their families.

Ensuring a secure environment for the people of Iraq is vital to Iraq’s future and the success of the Government of National Unity. Accepting the transfer of Forward Operating Base “Courage” is one more tangible sign that the Iraqi Security Forces and the Iraqi Government continue to develop the capability to establish and maintain that secure environment. This transfer is a great testament to the strength of the Security Forces. I congratulate the Iraqi people, their government, and their security forces on this occasion and look forward to continued transfer of security responsibilities as their capabilities continue to improve.

Last Updated ( Sunday, 23 July 2006 )

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1180&Itemid=37

-- July 25, 2006 4:54 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Focus on Baghdad as Iraqis lead
Tuesday, 25 July 2006

DotiBAGHDAD - Iraqi security forces are increasingly taking the lead in operations as Baghdad becomes the focal point in the fight for Iraq, a Coalition spokesman said in Baghdad Monday.

Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, spokesman for Multi-National Force - Iraq, said in a press conference that Iraqi Soldiers and police are at the forefront of operations "to make their capital safer" and that they are setting the stage for Baghdad to emerge as a center for business and learning.

Insurgents and death squads have blanketed Baghdad with bombings, murders and kidnappings over the past week and a half, seeking to uproot the newly-formed democracy and derail the government.

"Baghdad is the center that everybody is fighting for," he told reporters.

Caldwell noted Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's assessment published today in the Wall Street Journal. He quoted Maliki as writing: "Security plans to quell the violence in Baghdad, the capital and most populous city, face serious challenges that must be overcome. Together, we can and will succeed."

That success, the general said, appears near. Recent tips provided by Baghdad citizens to Iraqi Soldiers and police have led to the capture or killing of insurgents and the foiling of bombing and kidnapping plots.
Such triumphs demonstrate the growing capability of Iraqi security forces, he said, adding that America remains firmly in al-Maliki's camp. Caldwell vowed that U.S. troops will do "whatever it takes" to bring security to Baghdad.

Coalition officials have said the recent murders and kidnappings in and around the capital don't seem to be the work of any one particular group.

"It's been a random of Iraqi personnel that we've picked up that have been associated with death squads," Caldwell said.
He warned that people conducting illegal activities in Baghdad will be arrested.

“Anyone who is conducting activities outside the law obviously we are targeting,” said Caldwell.

During the past week, Iraqi security forces, working with Coalition forces in support, have intensified operations aimed at quelling the violence. Caldwell said there has been 19 such operations, 17 of them inside Baghdad.

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1234&Itemid=18

-- July 25, 2006 5:00 PM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Democrats assail Maliki for criticism of Israel, failure to denounce Hezbollah
1 hour, 35 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Democrats in the US Congress called on Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to condemn Hezbollah's attacks against Israel and to recognize Israel's right to defend itself.

The lawmakers expressed dismay during a press conference over Maliki's recent criticism of "Israel aggression" in Lebanon, and called for a "clarification" from the Iraqi leader before he appears Wednesday before a joint session of Congress.

House Democrats wrote a letter Tuesday urging Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert to revoke his invitation to Maliki, whose steadfastness as a partner in the US-led war on terror, they said, is seriously in doubt.

"With evidence mounting that the Iraqi leadership's goals are not in the best interests of the United States -- nor the Middle East -- Prime Minister Maliki's address is inappropriate," the House Democrats told Hastert.

"We are unaware of any prior instance where a world leader who worked against the interests of the United States was afforded such an honor. We would like to know how Prime Minister Maliki was chosen to receive the honor, and absent an apology by the prime minister, urge you to cancel the address," they wrote.

The leader of opposition Democrats in the House, Nancy Pelosi, in a statement, called Maliki's remarks "unacceptable."

"At the White House this morning, Mr Maliki did not retreat from his comments on Israel and once again failed to criticize Hamas and Hezbollah's terrorist activities.

"Unless Mr Maliki disavows his critical comments of Israel and condemns terrorism, it is inappropriate to honor him with a joint meeting of Congress," she said.

Other House Democrats added that they felt concern recently about "extensive reports indicating that Maliki and many in the Iraqi leadership are increasingly influenced by the government in Iran.

Maliki is in Washington this week for meetings with US President George W. Bush and other senior officials.

Democrats in the US Senate suggested that some members may choose to boycott the event if a satisfactory explanation by Maliki of his views on Hezbollah is not forthcoming.

"No matter how politically expedient he thinks it may be, to stand with America, you have to stand against terrorism," said Senator Chuck Schumer at a press conference.

"Before he speaks in front of the Congress and the American people, there's a very simple question we are asking the prime minister today: Which side is he on when it comes to the war on terror?" Schumer said.

In a letter dated July 24, Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, along with other party leaders, further press the Iraqi leader to clarify his views before speaking to Congress.

"Your failure to condemn Hezbollah's aggression and recognize Israel's right to defend itself raise serious questions about whether Iraq, under your leadership, can play a constructive role in resolving the current crisis and bringing stability to the Middle East," the lawmakers wrote to Maliki.

"As you know, the American people have given so much in the name of fighting global terror and helping build a better future for the people of Iraq," the Senate Democrats said.

"Americans deserve to know whether Iraq is an ally in these fights."

The senators' letter called Maliki's recent denunciations of Israel's bombing of Lebanon "very troubling."

"In advance of your scheduled appearance before a joint session of Congress on Wednesday, we believe it is essential that you clarify your position with respect to Hezbollah and its provocative incursions into Israel," the lawmakers wrote.

"It is imperative that the US Congress and the world know immediately whether you support or condemn Hezbollah's acts of terrorism."

In a separate letter addressed to Bush meanwhile, former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry wrote that Maliki should to use the Congress speech to answer his critics, in order to "build confidence in his government as they embark on the difficult tasks ahead."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060725/pl_afp/mideastconflictusiraq_060725193846;_ylt=AtYCiRUwTxgM2cTktmi1SA5X6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

-- July 25, 2006 5:19 PM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Outlaw:

Concerning your last post, it is not surprising the Democrats are assailing Maliki for criticism of Israel and for his failure to denounce Hezbollah. Since the beginning of the campaign the Democrats have sought to call into question the creditability of President George W. Bush. Discredit the legitamacy of the Iraq Government. Their continued criticism is a sign of their desperation to spin something out of nothing.

I do not think the American people are going to be fooled by their continous critcism. The Republicans are offering a course in Iraq, what are the democrats offering?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 25, 2006 5:46 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Outlaw are you kdding me with this crap? This has nothing to do with Bush... no matter how big of a retard he is. This new Iraqi govt. is an extension of the American system and sould be viewed that way. People who have thought otherwise were killed as a result of this war. We paved Maliki's way to the top with gold. Should he now support the same people who want to kill us is an insult. Terrorism must end. If that results on Maliki's removal then let it happen.

-- July 25, 2006 6:09 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

The questions are......

Does Maliki condemn Hezbollah's aggression and terrorist activities?

Does Maliki believe Israel has a right to defend itself against Hezbollah?

I believe these are justified questions and Maliki needs to answer them. A good chance would be when he speaks to our Congress.

I'm sure the liberal press will have a field day....but we need to know the answers.

-- July 25, 2006 7:42 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Sorry Outlaw.. That last comment should be addressed to Rob not you.

-- July 25, 2006 7:48 PM ∞

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Okie wrote:

I hope everybody remembers the US Diplomats asking, just after 9/11, every country in the ME if they were with us or against us.

Our war on terrorism is real and the future of the US depends on knowing who our friends are as we win the war.

-- July 25, 2006 7:52 PM ∞

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Mary Lou wrote:

Iraq restructures almost $20bn Saddam-era debt July 22, 2006 - Iraq has concluded its programme to restructure Saddam-era commercial debt, having retired almost $20 billion over the past eleven months, one of the country's financial advisors Citigroup, said.
he bank said in a statement Iraq had completed the process after two rounds of debt-for-debt exchange, four rounds of cash buybacks and an arbitration process addressing previously unreconciled claims.
Almost 500 commercial claimants participated in the programme under which claims worth $19.7 billion against Iraq and Iraqi public sector entiities were retired, the bank said in the statement.
Almost 12,000 individual Saddam-era commercial claims were cancelled as a result of the process, it added.
"The enormous and unsustainable debt stock accumulated by the Saddam regime has now been reduced to the point that it will not deter the new investment needed to finance Iraq's economic reconstruction" Iraq's central bank governor Sinan Al Shabibi said in the same statement.
Last month, following an arbitration process, Iraq added $131 million to its 2028 2.6 billion eurobond, which was issued in January 2006 to restructure $14 billion worth of claims.

-- July 25, 2006 9:12 PM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

http://theotheriraq.com/

There's hope

-- July 25, 2006 9:37 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Rob N.

Love my wife, but she tends to think that if she has Checks in the Check Book, then there is money in the bank. Really not that bad!:) The real reason is; Why put her through the hell we are all experiencing. And I would rather surprise her with being filthy rich.

Roger,

You are right again. The earth is flat. Especially where I am, in the middle of the desert. Sorry, blame it on the heat!!!!!!!

Persians = Iranians. Both a cultural and ethnic difference from the rest of the Gulf Arabs. They speak Farsi, and most of the rest speak Arabic. Some of my best friends are Iranians (living in the States). Of course they are all EXPAT’s from the Ayatollah’s regime. Read some history about ancient Persia and you will see the difference in their history vs. the rest of the Arab world. The Persian Empire is actually where most of our culture, science, and much else comes from. This was very much the center of culture and learning, while our ancestors were in the Dark Ages painting their faces blue. Of course like many peoples with a great past the Iranians still think they are special and look down on the poor Gulf Arabs. It’s a cultural thing. But now the tables are very much turned with the Gulf Arabs being the rich ones, and the Iranians being the ones will real issues. Their current president (kill all the Jews), is very much into trading on the past grandeur of the Persian Empire and telling them they should again rule the world. If this sounds familiar, just look back to the Nazi’s. Dear old Adolph used the supposed Aryan history to justify his little fantasies. What is really funny is that the original Aryan’s he talked about were actually from Persia and parts of India/Pakistan. Some people just can’t get it right.

-- July 25, 2006 10:51 PM ∞

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Bob wrote:

XE.com shows 1 USD = 1484 IQD...going the wrong way....it hasnt been that high in a long time.....any thoughts?

-- July 25, 2006 11:16 PM ∞

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Lance wrote:

Bob,

Don't think it is anything to worry about. CBI exchange rate Note: #1 (1476+1+10=1487)so not much different from the Local Bank purchase price. The Money Exchangers have to take their cut too. Note #2 (1476+2) for foreign exchange. All the extra is the Exchangers profit. Wait until (if it ever) hits the real open market. You will see vast swings within minutes. That is what I am waiting for. Come on dinar!!!! Hike Hike

-- July 26, 2006 6:33 AM ∞

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C1Jim wrote:

It was more fun reading this page when we were going to be rich in a couple of days.

-- July 26, 2006 7:37 AM ∞

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Okie wrote:

C1Jim....

I agree with you! I think if Maliki survives his speech before Congress without getting killed by the liberals he can continue on in good shape. His next little chore will be to dis-arm, or put in jail, his fat little buddy Al-Sadr and the other thugs in Baghdad.

I still have confidence in our investment.

-- July 26, 2006 9:51 AM ∞

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Rob N. wrote:

Taylor:

The retard comment causes me to question the very credibilty of your position. When one chooses to resort to name calling it appears there is really no point to be argued.

Regardless of whether you believe the Iraqi Government is an extension of the American System the fact remains the Democratic party shriek at any success in Iraq.

Taylor, real progress has been made in Iraq contrary to the anti-propaganda spread by the Demcratic faithful. Since 2003 the democratic leadership namely Hiliary Clinton, John Kerry, and Ted Kennedy have been praying for some Iraqi disaster that would help justify their criticism. I can imagine the three of them sipping sherry when Iraq was on the brink of civil war. Since the ending of secterian violence, their only recourse is to continue to be critical. At this juncture, their prayers have not been answered.

Their continual attempts to discredit President Bush and now criticize Maliki continues to underscore their own lack of vision for Iraq and America.

Taylor, I do not usually paraphrase the Bible, but in this reply I think it quite appropriate to do so. "Without a vision the people parish." Will you please tell me and the others on this forum what the Democrat's vision is for Iraq? Listening to its leadership there does not seem to be one.

I concede to mistakes being made in Iraq, but I also recognize that President George W. Bush has a real vision for those people. Every success in that country brings us closer to his vision's fruition.

Democracy for Iraq is good for Iraq. It is good for the Iraqi people. It is good for the American people, especially those who have invested in the Dinar. Ask yourself this question Taylor. If the democrats were in office, would I have an equal or better opportunity to make a substantial profit in Iraq? I believe the answer to that qestion is NO.

So, if you think my previous post and this post are both full of crap, then why are you investing in the Iraqi Dinar? In my opinion, you are not investing in the Dinar because of anything the Democrats have done. You are investing in the Dinar based upon the vision and action of George W. Bush. One last question, since you stand to make some profit from your investment in Iraq why are you calling George W. Bush a retard. I think the only retards in this senario are the Democrats. Oops I called the the democrats retards, my mistake.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- July 26, 2006 10:31 AM ∞

---

Outlaw wrote:

Iraqi prime minister addresses Congress
By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Seeking to shore up the U.S. military commitment in Iraq, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki must charm an increasingly skeptical Congress that is wary of his criticism of Israel and concerned about rising violence in Baghdad.

During his first trip to Washington since becoming prime minister two months ago, Al-Maliki was to address the House and Senate in a joint meeting on Wednesday.

In earlier meetings with President Bush, the Iraqi leader asked the United States for more military equipment and recommended increasing U.S. and Iraqi forces patrolling Baghdad neighborhoods.

Al-Maliki told reporters he and Bush agreed Iraqi forces needed training and better arms "as quickly as possible," particularly in the besieged capital city, to stabilize the country. Bush said the violence in Baghdad "is still terrible" and more troops are needed there.

The president said U.S. forces would be moved into Baghdad from other parts of Iraq. He did not say how many troops would be redeployed, but Pentagon officials have suggested several thousand soldiers would be moved to Baghdad, including some now based in Kuwait.

Roughly 127,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq, but the administration is under increasing pressure from both Democrats and some Republicans to bring a substantial number of them home by the end of this year.

"I certainly hope that he stands as strong as he can because we've got an awful lot of the credibility of the United States riding on his ability to lead this government," said Sen. John Warner (news, bio, voting record), R-Va., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

At the same time, leading House and Senate Democrats said they were incensed by al-Maliki's position on the Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Al-Maliki has condemned what he called Israel's "hostile acts" in Lebanon and said the international community has not done enough to stop it.

The House and Senate last week overwhelmingly approved resolutions in support of Israel, which began heavy attacks on Hezbollah sites in Lebanon two weeks ago after Hezbollah forces crossed into northern Israel, killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two.

Al-Maliki sidestepped a direct question at a White House news conference Tuesday about his position on Hezbollah, the guerrilla group that dominates south Lebanon.

"Here, actually, we're talking about the suffering of a people in a country. And we are not in the process of reviewing one issue or another, or any government position," al-Maliki said.

Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., said he doubted he would attend al-Maliki's address, and House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi hinted she too would boycott the speech. "Unless Mr. Maliki disavows his critical comments of Israel and condemns terrorism, it is inappropriate to honor him with a joint meeting of Congress," said Pelosi, D-Calif.

Another 20 Democrats, including Rep. Rahm Emanuel (news, bio, voting record) of Illinois, sent a letter to GOP House leadership asking to rescind al-Maliki's invitation to address Congress.

"We are unaware of any prior instance where a world leader who worked against the interests of the United States was afforded such an honor," the Democrats wrote.

GOP members said they too were concerned about the direction of the Iraq government, but they wanted to retain a dialogue with al-Maliki and other top leaders.

"We have hundreds of thousands of men and women right now fighting in Iraq to see that that country does become a safe, a free democratic and prosperous country," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee said Wednesday on CBS' "The Early Show." "We have their sovereign elected leader, with a full cabinet just recently appointed, coming to this country to continue that dialogue. So to even think that some of my Democratic colleagues are not going to show up to continue that show of support, that dialogue and, yes, ask questions and ask tough questions, is just wrong."

At the White House, press secretary Tony Snow said al-Maliki is entitled to his say.

"Let me try to explain democracy to people on Capitol Hill. It involves such rights as free speech and freedom of opinion," Snow said Wednesday. "The president is not a puppeteer in this case. He's not pulling the strings of Prime Minister al-Maliki. Prime Minister al-Maliki is the duly elected leader of a sovereign state, and as a result, has rights to his opinions."

Warner said attending al-Maliki's address and engaging his government were critical to achieve success in Iraq. Warner also said he has warned the administration about unintended consequences from supporting Israel's military operations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq;_ylt=AtSPmrMReWndOyOea__zKdOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-

-- July 26, 2006 11:25 AM ∞

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TAYLOR wrote:

Don't worry Rob... A fool and his money will soon part. Get used to doing your current day job.

Honestly, I could give a crap about Iraq or the people in Iraq. I'm in this for one reason. Its to make $$. Welcome to the business world.
Do I care about the Chinese? NO. I just want my TV's and computers made faster and cheaper. I really don't care what age the person is or how many hourse they worked in the sweat shop to produce it. Perhaps you've just stumbled on the typical American.

The war should have been presented in a different way.. conquer a weaker country so we can get our oil at a cheaper price.

Our military was originally set up for one reason.. to protect ourselves and our borders. NOT SOMEONE ELSE! Somewhere along the line we've lost that vision and we've become the policemen of the world. Do you ever see anyone giving Sweeden or Iceland a hard time? Any terrorism there?? NO. We are looking for a fight if you ask me. If our country started moving toward a idealogy of isolation, we'd solve a lot of problems right there. We could keep jobs here. We could use our own oil, we could save trillions because we'd no longer have to save the world from killing itself. We'd only have to worry about 1 thing; US - the United States.

When we got rid of Saddam we offset a very delicate balance of power in the middle east. The People of Iraq did us a favor by holding back Iran from becomming too strong. This is probably the reason why it was thought that the Iraqi people supposedly had WMD. The thought of their enemies holding this power would hold back the Iranians from crossing their borders.
We really fu**ed it up.

Bush a retard? Absolutly. However, I do thank him for tilting the tables to hopefully make me millions..

Donald Rumsfeld briefed the President this morning. He told President Bush that 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed in Iraq in the last 24 hours.

To everyone's surprise, all of the color ran from Bush's face and he collapsed on to his desk, head in hands, visibly shaken almost whimpering.

Finally, he composed himself and asked Secretary Rumsfeld, "Just exactly how many is a brazillion?"

George W. Bush (Dubya)
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, D.C. 20500

Past Work Experience

Ran for congress and lost.
Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
Accomplishments in Previous Positions

Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

Set record for most executions by any governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments As President

Attacked and took over two countries.
Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).
First president in U.S. history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board.
Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
Fist U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.'
Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.
Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available)
AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.
Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

-- July 26, 2006 1:09 PM ∞

---

TAYLOR wrote:

Bill Maher put it very well on HBO the other night:

"Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's
no more money to spend--you used up all of that.

You can't start another war because you used up the army. And
now, darn the luck, the rest of your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people.

Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out. No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished.

Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest
and walk away. Like you did with your military service and the oil company and the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or space man?

Now I know what you're saying: there's so many other things that you as President could involve yourself in. Please don't.

I know, I know. There's a lot left to do. There's a war with
Venezuela. Eliminating the sales tax on yachts. Turning the
space program over to the church. And Social Security to
Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote.

But, Sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you govern like Billy Joel drives.

You've performed so poorly I'm surprised that you haven't given
yourself a medal.

You're a catastrophe that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a shitty president, but even he never conceded an entire city to
rising water and snakes.

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus,
four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how
much worse it could be if you were on the other side.

So, yes, God does speak to you. What he is saying is: 'Take a
hint.' "

Bill Maher
HBO-Real Time

-- July 26, 2006 1:22 PM ∞

---

TAYLOR wrote:

NBA OR NFL?

36 have been accused of spousal abuse

7 have been arrested for fraud

19 have been accused of writing bad checks

117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses

3 have done time for assault

71,repeat
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit

14 have been arrested on drug-related charges

8 have been arrested for shoplifting

21 currently
are defendants in lawsuits, and

84 have been arrested for drunk driving
in
the last year

Can
you guess which organization this is?



Neither,it's the 535 members of the United States Congress.

The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year
designed to keep the rest of us in line.

-- July 26, 2006 1:34 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Lance,
Thanks on the Persian/Arab difference.

Yes, same retoric, nazis or islamofachists, when their race is supreme.

Aryans, do actually not exist, Germany is the crossroads of Europe, and all possible combinations of migration to the point of loosing track, has taken place all over Europe since times beginning.

Also it's easy to generalize, saying all Germans were Nazis. I do believe the extreemists, in the Persian Arab cultures are bullying the population about the same way the fanatic nazis were doing.

I had a friend when I grew up, he was born in Germany, his father was in the Waffen SS. Waffen SS was an elite corps, similar to Special Forces or Marines, and was called in to roll up the front when the allied axis forces of Bulgarian or Italian forces was bogged down.

Gestapo and Waffen SS was not liked by each other. Waffen SS considered Gestapo as backline lazy, and murderers, while the Waffen SS, did "honorable" war against a visible enemy. he told me that many times a cafee was filled with Waffen SS, and in walked two black uniformed Gestapo Officers, the whole group of Waffen SS, would rise and leave the place empty.

His father was at the time the youngest Major (only 23 years of age) in the Wermacht (German army) at the time, he was one of the very few Germans that was able to see Moscow in his field binoculars, he was at the very point of where Germany succeded in it's invasion.

At that moment he recieved a letter from Gestapo, wondering why he, as important person as he is, and with such an impeccable Arian background, could marry a 100% jewish woman. It was forbidden by law, and the issue has to be dealt with.

He answered that he will take care of the business after the victory, and requested the issue to be put in pending file until later.

Victory never came, but in the meanwhile, his wife, was able to live a life in Germany, in her small village, walking around without a star, without being deported and with full support and protection by the village people.

So it seems it's more in the hears and minds of people, and when it comes to big declarations, by nazis, islamofaschists, or any other Big Brother, the last say, what is right and wrong ultimately comes down to what the people themselves think.

The harder they bully, the more they get it their way, if they slack in their bullying, the reason and logic, starts taking over.

I think the phenomenon is more recognizable on a smaller scale.

If there is in the family, a grandma, or Niece, Oncle or something, that is very confused, very ignorant, loud, aways in the center of things, , always dominating.

When you are around one of those individuals, after a while, you have a hard time collecting your thoughts, start making mistakes, get upset over things, and your future seems hopeless.

Once that two week terrible vacation at Oncle Terror, and his submissive wife is over, (you know you're never doing it again,) and while you're sitting in you car driving home, suddenly , things starts to clear, things starts to come together, and lines become straight again. You're actually sitting and smiling.

You are getting back control over your "thinking space".

I have an idea that It's not Islam itself, but the way its set up, that drives people crazy over there. The call goes on endlessly for prayer, loudspeakers, people screaming from towers, it's precense is far more intruding than a churchbell.

Then, as a whole group you attend prayer, that must give a very strong feeling of belonging. For me religion is very private, love to discuss it, and so, but my own practices, I doubt that anyone have a clue. Over there its emphasized on a very big group.

Any individualism can't thrive in those conditions.

So with such a massive overwhelming religious practice, the rest of the life must by definition also focus around it.

God or Allah, must be intertwined in the society in so many ways that it's almost impossible to describe.

Dealing cars, laying roofs, shopping groceries, anything.

I doubt that one Arab (or Persian) man or woman can go one day, without assiociating their daily taks, with "God willing" , "With the might of Allah" or similar things, when standing at a car parts store figuring out if the have got the right kind of break liner for their pickup.

This is a dilemma, and a very hard nut to crack.

If you would tell the Arab, to start free thinking, and stop listen to the bullhorn in your ear, you would tell him to abandon his faith.

It's simply that Islam need a Marthin Luther, they have never had one, He dignified and upheld all the Christian beliefs, and was opposed to the Roman Catholic Church total power.

That lead to a reformation, in both the reformed, side of Christianity, and the Catholic style of Christianity, and today, it's more a choice of belief rather than a powerstruggle.

Right now, it's the Megaphone in the ear, style Islam, and no reformation is on the horizon.

The reforms starting to happen is on the social side, wobbly democracies, in Afghanistan, Lebanon( it's a joke), and Iraq, question is, if the reforms coming from that side of life, will eventually reform the Islam church itself.

-- July 26, 2006 1:51 PM ∞

---

Roger wrote:

Bush or not,Taylor in the lead right now, gota roll, I may or may not h