Dinar and Discussion for March 2010

By DinarAdmin

This is the Dinar And Discussion Page for March.

Comments


Sara wrote:

New page.. :)
Soon a new election in Iraq, too.

===

Iraq's Maliki sees coalition with Shi'ite rivals
Sun Feb 28, 2010

BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki acknowledged on Sunday that he would probably need partners to gain a majority after the election on March 7, and said he was ready to join with Kurdish or other Shi'ite groups.

"Alliances in forming the coming government are a must," he said in remarks carried by the state-owned National Media Center.

"Coalition with the Iraqi National Alliance (INA) and the Kurdish coalition is an important issue in building the country. These blocs enjoy historical relations that the political process and national unity need."

Maliki's comments were the clearest signal yet that his State of Law coalition hopes to join forces with rival blocs after the polls.

They might also constitute an acknowledgement that his own support may be less than anticipated -- although few political experts expected any single electoral bloc to form a majority on its own in a society as fractured as Iraq's.

Maliki, who has gathered strength and popularity since being selected as a relatively obscure compromise candidate in 2006, did well in provincial polls in early 2009, but his law-and-order message has taken a hit after a series of bomb attacks in Baghdad.

His current government is an alliance of majority Shi'ites with Kurds and Sunnis. After his strong performance in 2009, Maliki decided his ostensibly non-sectarian State of Law alliance would run against the other main Shi'ite groups.

Wheeling and dealing after next Sunday's election could mean it takes weeks or even months to form the next government.

The INA is Maliki's main rival for the Shi'ite vote, while the Kurdish coalition is dominated by the two parties that control Iraq's semi-autonomous Kurdistan region: the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.

Kurds are seen as kingmakers in the polls, as their support could give any bloc decisive weight in forming a government.

Maliki's broad-based alliance includes members of his Dawa party, a party founded in the 1950s to give Shi'ite Islam greater power in public life, and other groups including some Sunni tribal leaders, Shi'ite Kurds, Christians and independents.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100228/wl_nm/us_iraq_election_maliki

-- March 1, 2010 12:36 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq to reinstate 20,000 Saddam-era army officers
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
Hamza Hendawi, Associated Press Writer
Fri Feb 26, 2010

BAGHDAD – Iraq on Friday reinstated 20,000 former army officers dismissed after the U.S.-led invasion, a landmark gesture at reconciliation ahead of the March 7 elections.

Defense Ministry Spokesman Mohammed al-Askari denied Friday's announcement was linked to the election, insisting funding for the 20,000 positions is only now available.

"This measure has nothing to do with elections, rather it is related to budget allocations," said al-Askari, who did not provide a breakdown of the ranks of the officers being reinstated.

Critics, however, said the sudden return of their jobs might influence the votes of the reinstated officers.

"No doubt, this move is related to the elections and it aims at gaining votes," said Maysoun al-Damlouji, a candidate from a secular bloc led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a fierce critic of al-Maliki.

A Defense Ministry statement said the rehired personnel would be reinstated by Sunday, but a senior Iraqi military official said absorbing so many could take weeks or months to complete.

In recent years, thousands of officers from the disbanded army have trickled back to service in an ongoing process of reintegration. The official said a ministry committee has been screening officers for ties to Saddam's regime or involvement in atrocities or war crimes.

He said reinstatements were strictly based on the army's present requirements and mainly benefited officers from the rank of colonel down. U.S. commanders have in the past pointed out that Iraq's new army, which is at least 300,000-strong, desperately needed mid-ranking and experienced noncommissioned officers.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

The United States hopes a transparent and credible election will bolster national reconciliation efforts and pave the way for its combat forces to go home by the end of August and the rest by next year's end.

Regardless of the motive, reinstating the large group of officers would help reconciliation. Al-Maliki has raised Sunni resentment with his relentless denouncements of Baathists in Iraqi politics. But many were allowed to return to government service in 2008, and al-Maliki has also shown flexibility when it comes to the military.

Al-Maliki's Shiite-dominated government has already reinstated many Sunni officers as top commanders in the new army. It also waived "de-Baathification" rules and reinstated generals — Sunnis and Shiites — who once held senior positions in Saddam's ruling party.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100226/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=AoLNGrQkJvrHg2H3Ya.6W4Nn.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTJzMmxzb2huBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMjI2L21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM2BHBvcwM2BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDaXJhcXRvcmVpbnN0

-- March 1, 2010 12:49 AM


Sara wrote:

Leading Iraqi Sunni ends party's poll boycott
Feb 25, 2010
By Mohammed Abbas

BAGHDAD - The party of a prominent Sunni Muslim politician banned from taking part in Iraq's March election on Thursday decided not to boycott the poll, easing fears that other Sunni groups would also stay away.

Saleh al-Mutlaq said his National Dialogue Front party would take part in the March 7 vote as part of the Iraqiya election coalition, a cross-sectarian group expected to pose a challenge to Iraq's established Shi'ite Islamist parties.

His Sunni party said last week it would boycott the vote and urged others to do so too in protest at a ban on candidates with alleged ties to former dictator Saddam Hussein's Baath party. Mutlaq is among the most prominent of the banned candidates.

"There is great pressure from the Iraqi public which wants us to take part and we have great support," said Mutlaq.

A Sunni boycott of the poll would have threatened the legitimacy of the election and scotched hopes that greater Sunni participation in Iraqi politics would help reduce support for Sunni Islamist insurgent groups like al Qaeda.

A panel led by Shi'ite lawmakers last month banned more than 400 candidates accused of links to the Baath party, which brutally oppressed Iraq's majority Shi'ites and Kurds.

Although the ban affected more Shi'ite candidates, prominent Sunnis and Shi'ites working with them to form cross-sectarian alliances were hit hard, fanning Sunni accusations of Shi'ite attempts to marginalise them ahead of the election.

Iraq has only just emerged from years of sectarian bloodshed, and the country's minority Sunni Arabs hope the vote will give them a greater say in Iraqi politics.

"We don't want to prevent Iraqis from expressing their opinion, but at the same time, we have reservations about this election and its results even now, and we consider it lacking in legitimacy," Mutlaq told reporters at a news conference.

He declined to say how many candidates his party brings to the Iraqiya election coalition, which is headed by secular Shi'ite former prime minister Iyad Allawi.

The March election is Iraq's second full national vote since the 2003 U.S. invasion toppled Saddam, and is seen as crucial in solidifying Iraq's young democracy.

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000440098/Leading_Iraqi_Sunni_ends_party_s_poll_boycott/Article.htm

-- March 1, 2010 12:56 AM


Roger wrote:

Theyr'e having a ball in Iraq right now.

Theyr'e a lively bunch. Imagine them discussing politics in Iraq right now, at dinner tables, waiving their hands, granma chipping in with some odball comments, and the kids scream.

A discussion in a street corner have a tendency to swell to a sizeable crowd in a very small time.

Theyr'e extreemely passionate about things.

One thing for sure though....they are giving their country their choice of government.

They seem to play along in that game, in their own way of course, and even if their way may seem strange for a westerner on occasion, it doesn't matter, they are playing a winning game.

They are choosing.

-- March 1, 2010 1:29 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

Islamic Freedom Fighters are those who do not wish to be oppressed by a tyrannical occupying force. In case you forget during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan the United States supplied and funded the Mujahideen and our government labled them "freedom fighters". Now, these same Mujahideen are opposing our tyrannical government in Afghanistan and no longer called "freedom fighters". Why this inconsistency?

Our foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan is a deplorable; we invade soveregin countries and use a egmatic concept as a "War on Terror". As I have said, George W. Bush and Barack Obama are war criminals much worse than Saddam Hussein. Each should be tried as such. Islamic freedom fighters will have to unite in order to free themselves from tyrrany imposed by imperial America.

Concerning my selling of my dinars I am not bitter or angry in doing so. The dinar is a weak currency pegged to a weak American Dollar. The CBI is following the same monetary policy as our FED; they have assumed debt while debasing its currency. Iraq is not the future. In my view, the future is China.

Rob N.

-- March 1, 2010 10:47 AM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

Let us hope that the Iraqi Elections are filled with disorganization and chaos; may the people revolt and a coup d'etat occur and successfully topple the regime of Al-Malaki. May Afghanistan continue to be the graveyard of empires.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 1, 2010 10:53 AM


Sara wrote:

I thought this worth a repost..

===

Rebirth of a Nation
Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'—but it's a start.
By Babak Dehghanpisheh, John Barry and Christopher Dickey | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 26, 2010
From the magazine issue dated Mar 8, 2010

"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."

... it has to be said and it should be understood—now, almost seven hellish years later—that something that looks mighty like democracy is emerging in Iraq. And while it may not be a beacon of inspiration to the region, it most certainly is a watershed event that could come to represent a whole new era in the history of the massively undemocratic Middle East.

The elections to be held in Iraq on March 7 feature 6,100 parliamentary candidates from all of the country's major sects and many different parties. They have wildly conflicting interests and ambitions. Yet in the past couple of years, these politicians have come to see themselves as part of the same club, where hardball political debate has supplanted civil war and legislation is hammered out, however slowly and painfully, through compromises—not dictatorial decrees or, for that matter, the executive fiats of U.S. occupiers. Although protected, encouraged, and sometimes tutored by Washington, Iraq's political class is now shaping its own system—what Gen. David Petraeus calls "Iraqracy." With luck, the politics will bolster the institutions through which true democracy thrives.

Of course, as U.S. Ambassador to Baghdad Christopher Hill says, "the real test of a democracy is not so much the behavior of the winners; it will be the behavior of the losers." Even if the vote comes off relatively peacefully, the maneuvering to form a government could go on for weeks or months. Elections in December 2005 did not produce a prime minister and cabinet until May 2006. And this time around the wrangling will be set against the background of withdrawing American troops. Their numbers have already dropped from a high of 170,000 to fewer than 100,000, and by August there should be no more than 50,000 U.S. soldiers left in the country. If political infighting turns to street fighting, the Americans may not be there to intervene.

Anxiety is high, not least in Washington, where Vice President Joe Biden now chairs a monthly cabinet-level meeting to monitor developments in Iraq. But a senior White House official says the group is now "cautiously optimistic" about developments there. "The big picture in Iraq is the emergence of politics," he notes. Indeed, what's most striking—and least commented upon—is that while Iraqi politicians have proved noisy, theatrical, inclined to storm off and push confrontations to the brink, in recent years they have always pulled back.

Think about what's happened just in the last month. After a Shiite--dominated government committee banned several candidates accused of ties to the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein, there were fears that sectarian strife could pick up again. Saleh al-Mutlaq, who heads one of the largest Sunni parties, was disqualified. He says he tried complaining to the head of the committee, Ahmad Chalabi, and even met with the Iranian ambassador, thinking Tehran had had a hand in what he called these "dirty tricks"—but to no avail.

Two weeks later Mutlaq nervously paced the garden of the massive Saddam--era Al-Rashid Hotel as he weighed his dwindling options. "I got a call from the American Embassy today," he said, grimly. "They said, 'Most of the doors are closed. There's nothing left for us to work.' " He shook his head. "The American position is very weak."

But what's most interesting is what did not happen. There was no call for violence, and Mutlaq soon retracted his call for a boycott. The elections remain on track. Only about 150 candidates were ultimately crossed off the electoral lists. No red-faced Sunni politicians appeared on television ranting about a Shiite witch hunt or Kurdish conspiracy. In fact, other prominent Sunni politicians have been conspicuous for their low profile. Ali Hatem al--Suleiman, a tough, flamboyant Sunni sheik who heads the powerful Dulaim tribe in Anbar province, is running for Parliament on a list with Shiite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. He scoffs at effete urban pols like Mutlaq: "They represent nothing. Did they join us in the fight against terrorists? We are tribes and have nothing to do with them."

What outsiders tend to miss as they focus on the old rivalries among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds is that sectarianism is giving way to other priorities. "The word 'compromise' in Arabic—mosawama—is a dirty word," says Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, who served for many years as Iraq's national--security adviser and is running for Parliament. "You don't compromise on your concept, your ideology, your religion—or if you do," he flicked his hand dismissively, "then you're a traitor." Rubaie leans in close to make his point. "But we learned this trick of compromise. So the Kurds are with the Shia on one piece of legislation. The Shia are with the Sunnis on another piece of legislation, and the Sunnis are with the Kurds on still another."

The turnaround has been dramatic. "The political process is very combative," says a senior U.S. adviser to the Iraqi government who is not authorized to speak on the record. "They fight—but they get sufficient support to pass legislation." Some very important bills have stalled, most notably the one that's meant to decide how the country's oil riches are divvied up. But as shouting replaces shooting, the Parliament managed to pass 50 bills in the last year alone, while vetoing only three. The new legislation included the 2010 budget and an amendment to the investment law, as well as a broad law, one of the most progressive in the region, defining the activities of nongovernmental organizations.

The Iraqis have surprised even themselves with their passion for democratic processes. In 2005, after decades living in Saddam Hussein's totalitarian "republic of fear," they flooded to the polls as soon as they got the chance. Today Baghdad is papered over with campaign posters and the printing shops on Saadoun Street seem to be open 24 hours a day, cranking out more. Political cliques can no longer rely on voters to rubber-stamp lists of sectarian candidates. Those that seem to think they still might, like the Iranian-influenced Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, have seen their support wane dramatically. Provincial elections a year ago were dominated by issues like the need for electricity, jobs, clean water, clinics, and especially security. Maliki has developed a reputation for delivering some of that, and his candidates won majorities in nine of 18 provinces. They lead current polls as well.

Ali Allawi, who was minister of finance and minister of defense early in the post-Saddam government, describes the current scene in Iraq as a "minimalist" democracy built around a "new class" of 500 to 600 politicians. The Middle East has seen this kind thing before, he says, in Egypt and Iraq under British tutelage in the first half of the last century. Then, the elites learned to play party politics, too, but not to meet the needs of the people. "That ended in tears," says Allawi.

In Iraq today, conditions seem more likely to reinforce than to undermine the gains so far. Iraqis have been hardened by a very tough past and now, coming out the other side of the infernal tunnel that is their recent history, many share a sense of solidarity as survivors. "Identities in Iraq are fluid, but there is more of a sense of an Iraqi national identity," says Middle East historian Phebe Marr, whose first research trip to the country was in 1956.

You notice this, for instance, at the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra, where conductor Karim Wasfi manages to extract harmony from Kurds, Christians, Sunnis, Shiites, and Bahais. Some of the women musicians wear the hijab, or headscarf; others do not. During the height of sectarian violence in 2006, almost half of the orchestra fled the country. Those who stayed behind got death threats, and one was killed. During one concert they had to play against the contrapuntal percussion of a firefight just outside the hall—but play they did. "It was about survival," says Wasfi.

Wasfi now says there are audiences asking for the symphony to perform even in conservative religious towns like Karbala, in southern Iraq. And bigger cities like Baghdad and Basra are regaining their old cosmopolitan airs. Abu Nawas Street along the Tigris River is once again lit up with lively restaurants serving broiled fish and beer. Liquor stores that had closed up shop during the height of the civil war now stack cases of Heineken and boxes of Johnny Walker Black in front of their doors. University students, once cowed by militias like the Mahdi Army, are feeling freer.

The changes are more than superficial. As economist Douglass North pointed out last year in his influential book Violence and Social Orders, the key to building stable societies is to create a web of institutions that people can fall back on when governments, or mere politics, fail. Iraq is beginning to do just that. The country not only has the freest press in the region, but the gutsiest. More than 800 newspapers and TV and radio stations have aggressively gone after politicians and sleazy businessmen. The country now has more than 1,200 trained judges, and courts have convicted senior officials on corruption charges, with more cases pending. Women's groups, too, have asserted themselves, pushing for 25 percent of provincial councils to be female and forcing the Education Ministry to roll back a proposal to separate boys and girls in school.

Perhaps the most encouraging sign is that Iraq's military has become one of the most respected institutions in the country. The remnants of Al Qaeda in Iraq continue to carry out horrendous suicide operations, and some analysts expect the terrorists to step up their activities if sectarian tensions increase, and as American troops withdraw. But they no longer seem to pose an existential threat to the central government, and have inspired near--universal revulsion among Iraqis. Nor do most close observers fear the opposite—that the Army might become too strong and mount a coup. "I think people mention this because it's been such a recurrent theme in Iraq's past," says Ambassador Hill. "But we're certainly not seeing signs that the military is interested in engaging in politics."

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Gen. James Dubik, who was in charge of training the Iraqi military in 2007 and 2008, says the more relevant question is whether Iraq's political leaders might try to use the military for sectarian purposes. Prime Minister Maliki, who directly controls some counterterrorism forces, has been accused of targeting Sunni rivals using those troops. But, says Dubik, Iraqi commanders are "very much attuned" to the danger, and generally do not launch such missions without broader approval. "They are really trying to develop a mature process."

Neighboring Iran remains a concern. Tehran continues to compete for influence in Iraq using every means at its disposal, including trade, religious ties, diplomacy, and covert links to militias that target U.S. troops. But since Iran's own contested presidential elections last June, its influence has diminished. Seyyed Sadeq, the police chief in the Iraqi city of Al Amarah, is a Shiite who trained with the Iranian-supported Badr Brigades, and was based in Iran throughout the 1990s. Several of his Iraqi friends from those days remained on the Iranian payroll after 2003. Members of the Quds Force, the branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards that runs its foreign operations, "used to come here every month or so," says Sadeq. "But recently it's been every six, seven months. I am hearing that Quds Force commanders are busy with the internal operations in Iran so they don't have much time to pay attention to Iraq."

Most important in the long term is the fact that whoever rules in Iraq should be able to take advantage of the country's enormous and largely untapped wealth of oil and natural gas. The Kurds in the north, the Shiites in the south, and now the Sunnis in the west of the country can all lay claim to enormous fields—and even without a hydrocarbon law on the books, the government is finding ways to work with foreign oil companies to exploit these resources. Industry analysts believe Iraq could raise its output from almost 2.5 million barrels a day to 10 million by the end of the decade. Even at current production rates, Iraq's revenues last year were $39 billion.

This is what truly scares Iraq's neighbors. Yes, even the country's fledgling democracy is more vibrant than anywhere else in the region, except perhaps Lebanon (and Iraqis love to point out that America's own system isn't exactly working in textbook fashion right now). But more important, the foundations of a regional power are emerging, one that is equally threatening to Saudi Arabia and to Iran. (Some analysts believe Tehran's nuclear program is meant to intimidate and deter a resurgent Baghdad, not just Washington and Tel Aviv.) Iraq, for better or worse, democratic or not, will be a power to be reckoned with.

with Hussam Ali and Salih Mehdi in Baghdad, and Maziar Bahari

http://www.newsweek.com/id/234281?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewsweekInt%2FTopNews+%28UPDATED+-+Newsweek+International+Editions+-+Top+News%29

-- March 1, 2010 12:26 PM


Sara wrote:

Although this isn't Dinar related, I thought it worth noting, as I am sure the other side would do if the tables were turned:

===

Baby Survives 3 Days With Shot in Chest After Parents Commit Global Warming Suicide
Monday, March 1, 2010, 5:59 AM
Jim Hoft

A seven-month old baby girl survived a shot to the chest after her parents shot themselves and their two-year-old in a global warming murder-suicide pact.)

The New York Post reported:

A seven-month-old girl miraculously survived alone for three days after one of her parents shot her in the chest – apparently as part of a bizarre murder-suicide pact blamed on global warming.

The baby was discovered with a bullet casing in her chest and covered with blood by police in the Argentinean city of Goya, near the bodies of her parents and 2-year-old brother, the Latin American Herald reported Saturday.

Police broke into the home after neighbors complained of a stench coming from the house. The boy was found with a gunshot wound in his back, while his parents died from gunshot wounds to the chest.

The parents, 56-year-old Francisco Lotero and 23-year-old Miriam Coletti, are believed to have been spurred by their fears about global climate change, London’s Telegraph reported.

A letter was found on a table expressing the couple’s anger at the government for not responding to the environmental crisis.

Doctors said the baby’s condition has been improving every day, the Herald Tribune reported.

--end quote--

Someone needs to sue Al Gore.

Comments

1) Tammy

Thanks, Al Gore, for creating a non-existent hysteria across the world!
Obviously, these people were unstable to begin with, but the loony global warming freaks gave them a push over the edge.
I hope the baby recovers.
Sick freaks.

2) olm

Someone does need to sue Al Gore. I realize the hoax was intended to enrich al and friends and deliver unlimited power but stories like this are proof that they went way too far for purely selfish reasons.

3) LilMissSunshiner

Perhaps an appropriate response to this tragedy would to issue an arrest warrant for Al Gore and prosecute him for inciting social unrest resulting in death.

4) Hotspur

To hear the rhetoric coming out of peoples’ mouths about “reducing” the human population, we already see what kinds of damage a cult can do.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/baby-survives-shot-in-chest-after-parents-global-warming-murder-suicide/

-- March 1, 2010 12:37 PM


Roger wrote:

Malaki have made a statement for the first time on the issue of Iraq Dinars, in where he said he is working with CBI to find a workable way get the iraqi Dinar revalued.

-- March 1, 2010 10:58 PM


Roger wrote:

Sorry here is the reference, go to: aswat-al Iraq
R

-- March 1, 2010 11:01 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

Mujaheedin and Taliban are two distinct different entities.

You're mixing, up shit the whole time, and throws it into a generality.

Responding to you with logic will not work. I have tried ....but there is no one home. Circuits in your mind are playing phrases for you the whole time, thats all there is left of you.

I really wish you would come out of your hard shell, and be a human being again, be yourself, but I can bet you a dime your too coward, and instead will continue to repeat all those circuits, over and over and over ...and over again.

Evil Empires, Marsians and enormous complex conspiracies are after you. are after us all, and there is nowhere to hide.

You have stupid explanations to everything with the snap of your fingers.

Those circuits are serving you well, they come out like a machinegun.

Have you ever asked yoursef ...who am I?

All those curcuits are telling you who you are, but deep inside you know that's not you.

All that shit that is talking to you....that's not you.

I wish you good luck in finding out who you really are.

-- March 1, 2010 11:21 PM


panhandler wrote:

Rob N. . . . . .one of my favorite posters for the longest time, I've been affected with terminal cancer, but all in all, I don't think it's as bad as yours. . . I don't know what has happened to you in the past 5 years,. . .but I know a great oncologist who will help you get out of your system whatever ails you. . .peace to you brother. . .send me an address, and I'll send you some of my mellow pills, cause God knows you really need them. . .sorry to sound like this. . . Panhandler

-- March 2, 2010 12:57 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq, Iran and the Premiership
Posted on: Mon, Mar 01, 2010

Leader of the Supreme Islamic Council in Iraq (SICI) Ammar Al-Hakim and radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Al-Sadr are said to have received assurances that Iran will not prefer former Iraqi PM Ayad Allawi to any other Shiite candidate for the Iraqi Premiership. The following 380-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Sadr Movement reacted and what PM Nouri Al-Maliki is doing to block the way for Allawi to take over the Premiership.

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq_Iran_and_the_Premiership/1095

-- March 2, 2010 1:01 AM


Sara wrote:

Oil revenues optimization would solve Iraq’s problems – Maliki
February 28, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the optimization of Iraq’s oil revenues would solve all the country’s problems and repay all foreign debts.

“Contracts with global oil corporations and conglomerates can also help repay all compensations for some Arab and Gulf states and meet all reconstruction obligations,” Maliki said in response to questions through the National Information Center.

Since 2003, Iraq has been seeking to have its $120 billion worth of foreign debts accumulated during the former regime’s time written off. The war-ravaged country, however, managed to get nearly half of this sum - $55 billion owed to the Paris Club of creditor nations – dropped.

Still Iraq owes a sum of $21 billion to some Arab countries, including $21 billion to the Gulf states - $15 billion to Saudi Arabia and $6 billion to Kuwait, over which negotiations are underway.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127795

-- March 2, 2010 1:09 AM


Sara wrote:

France seeks to bring Iraq out of Chapter VII
March 1, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has welcomed the recent steps toward activating the Iraqi-French relations for the good of the two people, a presidential statement said on Monday.

“The president received at his residence in Kirkuk on Monday (March. 1) the French ambassador in Baghdad, Boris Bwalun, and the French Consul in Kurdistan, Fredric Tisso, with whom he discussed ways of boosting bilateral relations in various domains,” said the statement received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

“The French diplomat conveyed President Nicola Sarkozy’s greetings and his comfort regarding the outcome of the recent visit paid by the French industry minister to Iraq, noting that his country plans to expand its activity throughout Iraq,” the statement added.

The statement quoted the diplomat as saying that his country is doing its utmost to bring Iraq out of the Chapter VII.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127831

-- March 2, 2010 1:47 AM


Sara wrote:

Roger wrote: Malaki have made a statement for the first time on the issue of Iraq Dinars, in where he said he is working with CBI to find a workable way get the iraqi Dinar revalued.

I did look for it.. and I didn't find it.. anyone else have the article?

Sara.

-- March 2, 2010 1:51 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

The article you posted -"Rebirth of a nation" is one of the best articles I have read for a long time. Wow, almost made me go: ... rah! rah! Iraq!

It really highlight how far in the evloution they have come as a nation, their goals, and their views.

Iraq has changed tremedeously since Saddams time.

It feels like with this election, Iraq is really on the way, on a course they are setting themselves.

Roger

-- March 2, 2010 1:58 AM


Roger, wrote:

It worked for me on:
http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127789
Try that first.
R

-- March 2, 2010 2:06 AM


Sara wrote:

Thanks, Roger.. got it! :)

I think we all have become alarmed (and, perhaps, puzzled) with Rob N's sudden change from support for the United States to hatred of and jihadist sentiments against it. In seeking to understand what might make a person change into such hateful sentiments, I cannot believe it is merely political preference. I believe it must go deeper. To side with those who wish your death and actively desire them to win (and thus extinquish your own life) is not only suicidal and irrational but brainwashed and not sane. Here is one plausible explanation for such a phenomenon:

===
The mysterious power of hate
David Kupelian explains how innocent children become murderers and rapists
Posted: February 28, 2010
By David Kupelian

Editor's note: The following is excerpted from WND Managing Editor David Kupelian's latest book, "HOW EVIL WORKS: Understanding and Overcoming the Destructive Forces That Are Transforming America."

Growing up in a family of genocide survivors as I did, I got to hear stories – lots of stories – about just how depraved human beings can get.

Although my father and grandmother passed down these often-vivid recollections to us in the comfort of a warm suburban family room, worlds apart from the nightmares of their youth, their painful psychological scars remained ever fresh. And to a young boy like me, those stories – of cruel soldiers and bandits hell-bent on mayhem, as well as their intended victims' resourcefulness and sometimes even heroism – provided a glimpse into a scary, alien dimension of evil.

But rather than tell any more family stories here – and most Armenian families have them, just as Jewish Holocaust survivors and their kin have their stories – I'll quote the U.S. ambassador to Turkey at the time, Henry Morgenthau, whose published memoirs exposed the horrors he witnessed firsthand during the 20th century's first genocide. Incredibly, he described how Turkish officials bragged to him about their nightly meetings where they would enthusiastically share the latest torture techniques to use on the Armenians:

Each new method of inflicting pain was hailed as a splendid discovery, and the regular attendants were constantly ransacking their brains in the effort to devise some new torment. He told me that they even delved into the records of the Spanish Inquisition and other historic institutions of torture and adopted all the suggestions found there ...

I'll spare you the details, except to say that Morgenthau, father of FDR's treasury secretary of the same name, summed up the "sadistic orgies" of the Armenian genocide by declaring: "Whatever crimes the most perverted instincts of the human mind can devise, and whatever refinements of persecution and injustice the most debased imagination can conceive, became the daily misfortunes of this devoted people. I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this."

Unfortunately, more such "horrible episodes" followed apace throughout the 20th century. In the 1930s, Stalin ordered his military to confiscate all of Ukraine's food and then sealed her borders to prevent any outside sustenance from getting in, thereby intentionally starving 7 million men, women and children to death. This was followed soon by Japan's demonic "rape of Nanking," during which 300,000 Chinese were butchered in their nation's capital, including up to 80,000 women and little girls gang-raped by Japanese soldiers and then stabbed to death with bayonets. The Nazi Holocaust in the '30s and '40s, of course, tops most people's list of genocidal horrors, with its death-camp crematoria, extermination of 6 million Jews and unspeakable "medical experiments." For sheer numbers of dead – tens of millions during the '60s and '70s – China's Mao Ze-Dong has been called history's worst mass murderer. Pol Pot's maniacal communist purge of Cambodia in the late 1970s led to the deaths of 2 million of his own people, while Rwanda's tribal genocide in the 1990s resulted in the club-and-machete massacring of 800,000. Today's ongoing Sudanese genocide, backed by the Islamist government in Khartoum, has resulted in at least 400,000 dead.

We frequently ask ourselves how human beings can sink to this level of cruelty. There's no precedent for it among even the most fearsome predators in the animal kingdom. What, then, makes us capable of such extreme evil?

Genocidal madness can't be blamed on a particular philosophy or religion. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were atheistic communists. Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were in the grip of quasi-religious personality cults that deified their leaders. And today's genocide in Sudan, like the Turkish military which tortured Armenians for sport a century earlier, is heavily motivated by Islamic jihadist fervor.

So what turns people into monsters? Since they obviously didn't start out that way, let's rewind back to the beginning of the story and see what causes an innocent child to morph into an instrument of great evil.

Children's songs that celebrate murder

There's nothing more beautiful than a young child. Nothing. The brightness of spirit, the spontaneity, the natural intelligence – which Einstein called "the holy curiosity of inquiry" – are breathtaking.

What, then, possesses a smart, handsome young 5- or 6-year-old boy to go on Palestinian television and sing, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber"? Or a group of children, both boys and girls, to sing together, "How pleasant is the smell of martyrs, how pleasant the smell of land, the land enriched by the blood, the blood pouring out of a fresh body."

What? How does the horror and stench of death magically transform into the "pleasant smell" of life and glory for these kids? What happens to them in their earliest, most vulnerable years to induce some to later strap on explosive belts and vaporize themselves while murdering dozens of unsuspecting innocents?

Why, growing up in a "normal home" with a mom, dad, siblings, school and friends, does a young man suddenly feel compelled to stab his own sister to death – knifing her not just once or twice, but over and over again in a murderous frenzy – just because somebody said she was walking down the street with a male who wasn't a relative?

Clearly, as these young people's indoctrination progresses from singing songs about atrocities to actually committing them, we're witnessing not only a toxic philosophy at work, but also the magic ingredient that makes that philosophy come to life – namely, hatred. Underneath all the smiles, underneath the "devout" faith, underneath whatever persona is masking the overwhelming fear, confusion, and jihadist programming that have been cultivated in them since birth, lies the nuclear reactor core of their being – a smoldering fireball of suppressed rage.

Intense hatred has a way of morphing inexorably into full-blown, epic madness. Indeed, hate is like spiritual plutonium, possessing bizarre, explosive and transformative qualities of which we are largely unaware. It is the means by which evil itself blooms on this earth, especially when rage is focused and magnified by a malignant worldview. If you think this is overstated, just contemplate with me the following news items:

- Popular Middle East television programming for children that features jihadist clones of Mickey Mouse, Sesame Street characters and other kids' favorites, in which the lovable, cuddly stars teach children vicious lies and the virtues of mass murder.

- Rape victims being flogged and imprisoned, as when a Saudi court in early 2009 sentenced a 23-year-old female who had been gang-raped by five men to 100 lashes and a year in jail. Her crime? Accepting a lift from a man who drove her against her will to his house and took turns, with four of his friends, raping her.

- An epidemic of "honor killings" – at least 5,000 per year according to the U.N., but many more that go unreported – in which fathers, brothers or mothers brutally murder their own daughter/sister merely for being seen in public with a male or similar "offense." For example, two Jordanian brothers used axes to murder their two sisters, aged 20 and 27, after the older sister left home to marry a man without her family's permission and the younger one ran away to join her. After someone tipped off the brothers as to their sisters' whereabouts, the men went into their home with axes and hacked them to death. "It was a brutal scene," one government official told the Jordan Times. "One victim's head was nearly cut clean off."

- Maniacal, zombie-like "religious police," such as those in Saudi Arabia who on March 11, 2002, allowed 15 young girls to die horrible deaths when a fire broke out in their school in Mecca. The religious police, or Mutaween, literally blocked firefighters from saving the girls because they weren't dressed in the proper Islamic way for girls and women to be seen outdoors. With helpless firemen watching, the religious police literally beat the girls – those who were not wearing their headscarves or abayas – back into the inferno.

What we're looking at here is criminally insane behavior – no less insane or criminal than that exhibited by severely deranged people we routinely lock up in maximum-security psychiatric hospitals or prisons in the United States.

Of course, by now we've all heard more than we care to know about radical jihad culture, with its pathological blame of Jews for everything, its condemnation of Western Civilization and its "die-while-killing-infidels-and-Allah-will-give-you-virgins" recruitment pitch. But distilling this "martyrdom" obsession down to its essence, common sense tells us no one murders innocent people or forces schoolgirls back into a burning building unless they're insanely angry. So, where exactly does this hate come from?

Let's understand, even a violent philosophy like that of radical Islam isn't necessarily sufficient, by itself, to create a rage-fueled jihadist. No, you become full of hate and driven to violate others only when someone else first violates you – when a parent, older sibling, teacher, cleric or other authority figure intimidates, frightens, degrades, bullies, humiliates or perhaps sexually abuses you. And such cruelty and degradation are, unfortunately, endemic in much of the Islamic world. Its rigid, authoritarian religious system, the near-slave status and abuse of women, the suffocating sexual repression, the widespread incidence of what can only be called the world's most flagrant child abuse (where even toddlers are groomed for future "martyrdom operations"), and the pervasive fear of flogging, amputation or stoning if one runs afoul of the ultra-strict Sharia legal code – all this creates an environment reeking of quiet terror. No wonder its victims take to terrorism so readily.

So, once these parents and other authorities, full of the madness and confusion injected into them during their own youth, succeed in passing it on to the next generation of youngsters by intimidating and indoctrinating them, it's child's play to focus the newly created jihadists' zeal onto the appropriate "hate object" – Jews, Americans, "infidels" and so on.

This dynamic is not unique to radical Islam. In fact, believe it or not, it's the hidden fabric of all too much of our own lives – albeit usually in a far less extreme form. In a perverse mirror reflection of the Golden Rule, we all tend compulsively to do unto others what was done unto us. We effortlessly internalize the cruelty of others.

This is because, aside from the obvious effects being angry and upset have on us – making us emotional, clouding our judgment and so on – it also throws us into "program mode." That's right: When we get upset at the intimidating words or actions of other people, their cruelty "infects" us in a very real way. So, for instance, if our parents angrily yelled at us all the time when we were children, we would tend to angrily yell at those smaller and weaker than us. A little bit of the bully gets inside of us, and we then bully others, in one form or another. We've all seen this, and we know that our prisons are full of molesters and abusers who were molested and abused as children.

Thus, maniacal imams and jihadist teachers find it relatively easy convert innocent children into suicide bombers. The first step is to indoctrinate them from birth with a poisonous belief system demonizing "infidels," a process explained by Israeli counter-terrorism expert Itamar Marcus in "The Genocide Mechanism":

Common to the framing of all genocide is a very specific kind of demonization. In Rwanda, the Hutus taught that the Tutsis were cockroaches and snakes. Tutsi women were portrayed as cunning seductresses who used beauty and sexual power to conquer the Hutus. … Radio Rwanda repeatedly broadcast a warning that Hutus were about to be attacked by Tutsis, to convince the Hutus that they needed to attack first to protect themselves.

This demonization included two specific components. First, the victims had to be perceived as a clear and present threat, so that the killers were convinced they were acting in self-defense. Second, the victims were dehumanized, so that the killers convinced themselves that they were not destroying real human beings.

Teaching children virtually from birth that Jews are subhuman, evil oppressors of Muslims – fiends who grind up Arab youngsters to use as ingredients in their Passover matzoh – is epidemic in the Islamic world. A typical example: The Saudi satellite television station Iqraa broadcast an interview with a 3-year-old Egyptian girl named Basmallah, who answered a question about Jews by declaring: "They are apes and pigs."

But this little girl is not about to murder anyone. She's just repeating statements fed to her by adults for the sake of winning their love and approval. Dehumanizing indoctrination isn't quite enough to launch a genocide. There must also be hate, and lots of it – not merely to fuel the atrocity machine, but to allow the indoctrination to fully take root.

In other words, whatever the toxic programming may be – Hutus demonizing Tutsis as "cockroaches and snakes," Turks accusing Armenians of being "enemy collaborators," Nazis likening Jews to "vermin" – for such outrageous and counter-intuitive falsehoods to be both believed and acted upon, those being indoctrinated must be kept in a very emotional state.

Recall that Hitler always kept his audiences super-emotional; that's how he programmed them and guarded against their naturally coming back to their senses. He was always stirring up their emotions, and by so doing, his thoughts became their thoughts, his feelings became their feelings. It's brainwashing 101: Cause your intended victims to become upset, angry, emotionally riled up, and you have your hands on the control levers of their mind.

Children are so vulnerable, like spiritual sponges, that if they're treated with cruelty, if they're degraded sexually, if they're constantly confused and intimidated – and at the same time are indoctrinated with lies denying their neighbors' humanity, and also showered with promises of glory, reward and brotherhood for believing and acting a certain way – well, it's not long before you've got yourself a newly minted jihadist, communist, or Nazi.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=126066

QUOTE: Intense hatred has a way of morphing inexorably into full-blown, epic madness. Indeed, hate is like spiritual plutonium, possessing bizarre, explosive and transformative qualities of which we are largely unaware. It is the means by which evil itself blooms on this earth, especially when rage is focused and magnified by a malignant worldview. ... whatever the toxic programming may be – Hutus demonizing Tutsis as "cockroaches and snakes," Turks accusing Armenians of being "enemy collaborators," Nazis likening Jews to "vermin" – for such outrageous and counter-intuitive falsehoods to be both believed and acted upon, those being indoctrinated must be kept in a very emotional state. (END QUOTE)

I have noted that when Roger engages RobN in rational debate, RobN does not answer those rational arguments or engage those valid, logical and factual points. This has been a source of constant frustration and puzzlement by Roger as well as others including myself. Instead, RobN comes back invariably with emotional statements and apocalyptic language, damning America and wishing evil on everyone, from the Office of the President to the entirety of the Western Nations, in great fits of hatred and temper. Somehow, his views keep him locked into a state of emotional termoil, and it acts upon him like Hitler did those under him where, He was always stirring up their emotions, and by so doing, his thoughts became their thoughts, his feelings became their feelings. It's brainwashing 101: Cause your intended victims to become upset, angry, emotionally riled up, and you have your hands on the control levers of their mind.

I can only suggest, in light of this understanding, that the Board act patiently and remain rational, not engaging in emotional reply. That will only feed his irrational and bizarre self-destructive, anti-US fever and rantings.

Sara.

-- March 2, 2010 3:10 AM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

I can assure you that I am neither a Jihadist nor do I hate the America of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson; I love and long for that America. That America was a bastian of self-reliance and self-determination. The AmeriKa I abhor is the Amerika of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama. These men are guilty of implementing a neo-con fascist agenda at the behest of the banking elite. This Amerika bears no resemblance to the America that one its independence from Great Britian and defended herself with honor against Great Britain a second time in the war of 1812.

The hysteria the media reports concerning Iran and its nuclear ambition is state run propaganda in attempt to scare the Amerikan people to justify continuing perpetual war against an enigmatic enemy without definition. Since Iran is a soveregin nation it has a fundamental right to pursue nuclear weapons in an effort to protect itself from an agressive imperialistic Amerika currently occupying Iraq. It is well documented that Amerikan troops are guilty of raping Iraqi women; the occupiers have looted and stripped Iraq of its gold and artifacts which recently Amerika has promised to return archelogical artifacts it took illegally.

I believe the neo-con fascist agenda being implemented now in the middle east will ultimately fail in part because the Iranians are descendants of the great Persian Empire; I can assure you they are not going anywhere. Next, our monetary and fiscal policy in this country is as broken as our foreign policy. We can for so long export our debt to Asia in order to fund these aimless adventures into War. Once Asia turns off the money the boys will be coming home. Victory in Iraq has not occured and victory in Afghanistan is not any closer. Pakistan is distancing itself from the United States; all of this will will spell defeat the Amerikan imperialist.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 2, 2010 10:51 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

You say I am mixing up the mujahideen and taliban and I am apparently confused. According to wikipedia, in post soviet international fighters "At present the term "mujahideen" is sometimes used to describe insurgents groups (including Taliban and al-Qaeda) who are fighting NATO troops and the Military of Afghanistan and Pakistan."

I get the impression your definition is the one skewed. The mujahideen were freedom fighters when fighting the Soviets but now are classified as terrorist fighting against being occupied by AmeriKa. I submit you perspective is as broken as our foreign policy.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 2, 2010 10:57 AM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

I have not posted an article in a while so I thought I would post this gem from December 14, 2009 concerning the war in Afghanistan:

Afghanistan Another Vietnam? You Bet Your Administration It Is, Obama!
Brian Doherty | December 14, 2009

So says Foreign Policy mag, in this piece by Thomas H. Johnson and M. Chris Mason. Here's why:

Let's start with the obvious: There isn't the slightest possibility that the course laid out by Barack Obama in his Dec. 1 speech will halt or even slow the downward spiral toward defeat in Afghanistan. None. The U.S. president and his advisors labored for three months and brought forth old wine in bigger bottles. The speech contained not one single new idea or approach, nor offered any hint of new thinking about a conflict that everyone now agrees the United States is losing. Instead, the administration deliberated for 94 days to deliver essentially "more men, more money, try harder." It sounded ominously similar to Mikhail Gorbachev's "bloody wound" speech that led to a similar-sized, temporary Soviet troop surge in Afghanistan in 1986.....

The president offered three reasons why [Afghanistan now and Vietnam then] are different. And all are dead wrong. First, Obama noted that Afghanistan is being conducted by a "coalition" of 43 countries -- as if war by committee would magically change the outcome (a throwback to former President George W. Bush's "Iraq coalition" mathematics). The truth is, outside of a handful of countries, it's basically a coalition of pacifists. In fact, more foreign troops fought alongside the United States in Vietnam than are now actually fighting with Americans today. Only nine countries in today's 43-country coalition have more than 1,000 personnel there; nine others have 10 (yes, not even a dozen people) -- or fewer. And although Australia and New Zealand have sent a handful of excellent special operations troops to Afghanistan, only Britain, Canada, and France are providing significant forces willing to conduct conventional offensive military operations. That brings the coalition's combat-troop contribution to approximately 17,000. Most of the other 38 "partners" have strict rules prohibiting them from ever doing anything actually dangerous....

The president went on to assert that the Taliban are not popular in Afghanistan, whereas the Viet Cong represented a broadly popular nationalist movement with the support of a majority of the Vietnamese. But this is also wrong. Neither the Viet Cong then, nor the Taliban now, have ever enjoyed the popular support of more than 15 percent of the population....

The reality on the ground is that Afghanistan is Vietnam redux. Afghan President Hamid Karzai's regime is an utterly illegitimate, incompetent kleptocracy. The Afghan National Army (ANA) -- slotted to take over the conflict when the coalition pulls out -- will not even be able to feed itself in five years, much less turn back the mounting Taliban tide....

Most critically of all, Pakistan's reaction to Obama's speech was to order its top military intelligence service, the ISI, to immediately begin rebuilding and strengthening covert ties to the Afghan Taliban in anticipation of their eventual return to power, according to a highly placed Pakistani official. There will be no more genuine cooperation from Pakistan (if there ever was)....

http://reason.com/blog/2009/12/14/afghanistan-another-vietnam-yo

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 2, 2010 10:59 AM


Anonymous wrote:

Rob is making a lot of sense. We have to stop interfering in other people's business.

-- March 2, 2010 11:51 AM


Sara wrote:

Nice to see rational argumentation from you, RobN. Your words in italics below.

Rob N wrote:

I can assure you that I am neither a Jihadist nor do I hate the America of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson; I love and long for that America. That America was a bastian of self-reliance and self-determination. The AmeriKa I abhor is the Amerika of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

When you say, "God Damn America" you are damning BOTH Americas, RobN. The first has not ceased to exist, and when you damn America, you lump the baby in with the bathwater, both of which you would throw out. STOP IT!

These men are guilty of implementing a neo-con fascist agenda at the behest of the banking elite. This Amerika bears no resemblance to the America that one its independence from Great Britian and defended herself with honor against Great Britain a second time in the war of 1812.

What you are saying is you believe each of these men to be Progressives, moving the country from being a center right country and instead moving it toward the left, and into Communism, government control and perhaps control by special interests/rich elites, instead of the people. This appears to be the concerns of the tea party movement, who do not take to ranting against America, but are mobilizing the grassroots of America to support the country from this internal attack against the sovereignty of her people and acting to defend the freedoms given to the country by its founders in the Supreme Law of the Land, The Constitution. I suggest you stop your inflammatory rhetoric and take up with them instead of acting anarchist and agreeing America should be destroyed.

The hysteria the media reports concerning Iran and its nuclear ambition is state run propaganda in attempt to scare the Amerikan people to justify continuing perpetual war against an enigmatic enemy without definition. Since Iran is a soveregin nation it has a fundamental right to pursue nuclear weapons in an effort to protect itself from an agressive imperialistic Amerika currently occupying Iraq.

Do you agree that the sovereign nation of Israel also has a right to use its nuclear weapons in its self defense against a hostile power.. such as Iran? The nuclear ambitions of Iran are in conflict with those rights of its earthly neighbors to exist. Iran has also threatened to destroy not only Israel, but America. Those threats are not propaganda by the West, they are statements from Iran. To ignore them and minimize them as innoculous is foolish when you are dealing with a power with nuclear weapons. It is not America which is "scaring" the American people with Iran's nuclear ambitions, it is Iran intentionally saying these powers (the US, Israel) will soon "be annhilated", be "wiped off the map" and no longer exist. Those are fighting words, and not to be taken lightly when spoken by a head of state seeking nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are powerful and in the right hands, distributed to suicide bombers in the USA, could cause havoc of unimaginable proportions. If they find a way to smuggle and cloak those devices from scrutiny (heroine and cocaine shipments manage to move across the borders all the time, could bomb making materials?), the US could indeed have its safety threatened. It is NOT an idle threat or state run propaganda as you allege. It is not an enigmatic enemy without definition either.. these are the same people supplying IEDs to kill US soldiers.. if they had the tools and ability to hit Israel or the US they would they not use it? The US is fully justified in defending itself.

It is well documented that Amerikan troops are guilty of raping Iraqi women; the occupiers have looted and stripped Iraq of its gold and artifacts which recently Amerika has promised to return archelogical artifacts it took illegally.

I did cover this at length in the last thread, however, rather than reiterating those arguments at length here, I would simply state that it is not now - nor ever has been in history - a policy of the US government to rape women or loot treasures. To impute to the current military service as a whole that character smear is fundamentally a flawed argument and goes against even SOME of your ravings about the government killing the troops "uselessly" - why care for the troops if they are all a bunch of wicked evil plundering lootists and rapists? Your arguments are so irrational they do not hold up. Within your area of living, be it urban or rural, you have within your community those who are offenders against law and order. Does that mean the entire community is wicked and should be punished and destroyed as you are calling for the destruction of the US and repudiation of its entire contingent of defending troops? No. It is irrational to say all men are wicked because of the sins of some. We weed out the offenders, and you should note who gave the archeological artifacts BACK.. AMERICA.. by your own statement. How can America be totally wicked looters and also giving the archeological artifacts back? Isn't that inconsistent? If America were of the character you say it possesses, they would be the looters and would not be seeking to find the plunder and give it back to its rightful owners. They are giving it back simply because it was ILLEGAL activity, not endorsed by the American government, and they are seeking to rectify the mistake. Same with the rape charges. You should rectify your mistakes as well and cease attacking the United States as though all that are within it are wicked Americans and none who are good. "Those that hate the righteous will be desolate".. (Ps 34:21) - you are indeed hating many who are righteous by your statements.

I believe the neo-con fascist agenda being implemented now in the middle east will ultimately fail in part because the Iranians are descendants of the great Persian Empire; I can assure you they are not going anywhere.

I believe if the Progressive Agenda for America and the world fails, it will be because of the mercy and help of God, and His using AMERICANS to rise up from within and replace those in government with people believing in the Old America and the Supreme Law of the Land, The Constitution, not due to some despotic and crazed dictator who is slaughtering his own people in another country, and claiming to do it in the name of God.

Next, our monetary and fiscal policy in this country is as broken as our foreign policy. We can for so long export our debt to Asia in order to fund these aimless adventures into War. Once Asia turns off the money the boys will be coming home.

Unsustainable spending has occurred under Obama. If we had continued on with Bush's policies, we would not have hit the debt wall for 200 more years. Not that it was not coming eventually, but it would not have been our generation facing it. The incredible increase in exporting the debt is a calculated strategy to rapidly collapse the system which is now in place and was outlined by two leftist economists, Cloward and Piven. The point is to take over the government of the US and impose a "fundamental transformation" upon America. This agenda must be stopped by Americans, outside forces cannot do so, including Iran.

Victory in Iraq has not occured and victory in Afghanistan is not any closer. Pakistan is distancing itself from the United States; all of this will will spell defeat the Amerikan imperialist.

I disagree with your assessment that Iraq has not been a victory. Even Obama has tried to paint the victory there as due to himself and his Administration instead of President Bush. The fact that the victory remains elusive in Afghanistan is not because the US forces are unable to win. It is because they are not given the ability to win, nor do they have someone directing them who is aiming at winning. Obama said he does not think of the goal in Afghanistan as winning. So victory is not possible under such a mentality. I pray for the American Forces for their safety and protection from such folly in policy and betrayal of the aims of war in fact.

===

Obama: Victory Not Goal in Afghanistan
From ABC News (via YouTube) and Fox News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk7scgN-37E&feature=player_embedded

Obama: ‘Victory’ Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

President Obama has put securing Afghanistan near the top of his foreign policy agenda, but "victory" in the war-torn country isn’t necessarily the United States’ goal, he said Thursday in a TV interview.

"I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur," Obama told ABC News.

The enemy facing U.S. and Afghan forces isn’t so clearly defined, he explained.

"We’re not dealing with nation states at this point. We’re concerned with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, Al Qaeda’s allies," he said. "So when you have a non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda, our goal is to make sure they can’t attack the United States." …

"We are confident that if we are assisting the Afghan people and improving their security situation, stabilizing their government, providing help on economic development … those things will continue to contract the ability of Al Qaeda to operate. And that is absolutely critical," Obama told ABC News…

Pressure from the public and opposition politicians is growing as soldiers’ bodies return home, and a poll released Thursday shows majorities in Britain, Germany and Canada oppose increasing their own troop levels in Afghanistan.

Europeans and Canadians are growing weary of the war — or at least their involvement in combat operations — even as Obama is shifting military resources to Afghanistan away from Iraq.

The United States, which runs the NATO-led force, has about 59,000 troops in Afghanistan — nearly double the number a year ago — and thousands more are on the way. There are about 32,000 other international troops in the country…

The leaders of the largest contributors to the coalition find themselves having to justify both their reasons for deploying troops and their management of the war effort…

===

And yet, as we noted at the time, almost exactly a year ago Mr. Obama was singing a very different tune.

From the Associated Press:

===

Obama says Afghanistan ‘a war that we have to win’
By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer

July 15, 2008

WASHINGTON – Contending that the U.S. is not pursuing a sound strategy for keeping Americans safe, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Tuesday that fighting al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan would be his top priority after ending the war in Iraq.

"This is a war that we have to win," Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery at the International Trade Center in Washington…

===

Of course Mr. Obama was campaigning for the Presidency back in July.

Also remember how the Democrats, including of course Mr. Obama, always claimed that we should be concentrating on Afghanistan. And, just as importantly, we should have more of our allies fighting alongside us in the war.

Finally the Democrats have now gotten both of their purported wishes. The right war in the right place – with plenty of other Western countries helping us.

And yet, look at how poorly things are going. Any minute now our ‘allies’ will turn tail and pull out. Which will give Mr. Obama an excuse to do the same.

Which, come to think of it, was surely the Democrat plan all along.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-victory-not-goal-in-afghanistan

-- March 2, 2010 1:19 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

Group A, B, C, D, E and F, is called GREEN and are all against X and that happens in one timeframe.

Next timeframe, group F evolved into supressing group A, B, C an D, an Group F is called RED.

You are saying RED is GREEN.

Mujaheedin and Taliban are two different entites.

Yes Rob N, you are very confused, throwing generalities around, and say whatever will fit your Neo Con Nazi ?? agenda.

-- March 2, 2010 9:40 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

Since you are a Bush supporter I will lump you in with the rest of the neo-con fascist running this country. I ran accross the following quote from then President George W. Bush concerning the Patriot Act that as a supporter I am sure you can defend. I am sure you remember the Patriot Act that strips American citizens of their right to privacy amongst other viloations.

Capitol Hill Blue: “I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 3, 2010 9:50 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

Still not confused or am I mixing entities. My point is Roger in American Foreign Policy labels change in an effort to fit an Amerikan imperalistic agenda. During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan the spin doctors latched upon the name Mujahideen and called them freedom fighters and funded them against communist agression; eventually the Soviets withdrew.

Now, that we are in Afghanistan as the agressor our media in their often inconsistent manner does not use the term Mujahideen to describe those that fight against the U.S. they use the term Taliban. My argument and supported in part by wikipedia in the post Soviet era inside Afghanistan the difference between Mujahideen and Taliban is non-existent. In my view, if these Afghan rebels were freedom fighters during the Soviet invasion of their country I consider them freedom fighters during the Amerikan invasion and occupation.

The people of Afghanistan do not want the neo-con fascist U.S. military inside their country and they do not want the puppet Karzai as their prime minister. Call the resistence Mujahideen or Taliban the name does not matter they are fighting for the liberation and freedom of Afghanistan.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 3, 2010 10:02 AM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

You really hate America. Or as you prefer to write it Amerika...with a K.

Why don't you move away from this supressing country, and get the freedoms you are looking for?

If this place is such a Nazi place, then go somewhere else, go somewhere where the US will not bother you.

There are a lot of wonderful places just waiting for you, Zimbabwe, Kamerun, Laos, Kahzakstan, N.Korea, Wenezuela, or you can probably do it on a budget and just go down to Mexico, there are a lot of options out there that will make you happy.

You're not solving anything sitting here in this supressing country, and bitching how bad it is.

Do something that will make you happy.

Stop whining and pack your bags.

-- March 3, 2010 10:40 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

I do hate this AmeriKa with its neo-con fascist agenda as it invades and loots Iraq and Afghanistan. Watching the passage of the Patriot Act, in my view, has resulted in a Constitutional crisis that has not been dealt with. We have a government that supports a monetary and fiscal policy not good for the country. Injecting to much liquidity into our systen (this liquidity printed out of thin air) will cause massive inflation and a devaluation of the U.S. Dollar. Both Bush and Obama have violated the constitution by going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan without a formal decleration and they both have violated the Wars Power Act.

Solutions to these and other problems are not solved by leaving. If I chose at somepoint to leave the country I already have that place in mind. For now, I choose to stay in this AmeriKa and make my cause for a return to the American pinciples of Washington, Adams, and Jefferson. In the meantime, I will continue to fly my flag upside down in order to call attention to the distress this country is in.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 3, 2010 11:22 AM


Sara wrote:

Rob N;

RobN, President Bush is not the issue here. It doesn't do any good rehashing someone's views who is no longer in office. It is beating a dead horse. What we need to see is the ISSUES we are facing. As Glenn Beck said, if we don't see the issues, if history is lost, then we will repeat it. If you take just fifteen minutes of your time and watch these two segments, it will change your outlook completely.

Segment 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_bMnzhMLk&feature=player_embedded

Segment 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bVJaSYmItM&feature=player_embedded

It would be best if you watched the entire five segments from 03-02-10, of which these two are a part, for context, but these two should give you the most basic understanding that we are not dealing with Left versus Right, but UP versus DOWN. And you are right, we need LIMITED government as the Constitution dictates. The Democrats who were worried about the trampling of Constitutional rights under Bush were right.. and the tea partiers today who are equally worried about the growth of government and trashing of the Constitution today are right. Beck brings out that the Patriot Act had SUNSETS placed into it so they would EXPIRE. But the Progressive Democrats just now have removed them, trampling forever those rights that the Progressive Republicans took "for a little while" and while in crisis . The answer is NOT to wish for the destruction of the United States as that fellow in clip one (at the end) does. He is a Communist and calling for the death of America.. and Communist Totalitarian takeover.. and I think you are following that reasoning instead of trying to help bring the US back to America's real base. All I am saying is don't be a destructive force against America, don't join the enemies and try and work to destroy her. What will you REPLACE her with? Roger is right.. go live there if you think you are going to "win" by doing that. You won't. You will bequeath to the next generation totalitarianism, either under a religious fascist regime like Iran (in the past Hitler) or a Communist regime and their "utopia" of "workers of the world unite" (go live in Russia, China, Cuba, etc). It doesn't much matter which horse gets to the endgame of total government control first, Communist or Fascist. It is still total government control. That is where your road is heading. Listen to the segments, all five if you can. This is history you have to get in order to see the real enemy. It isn't your fellow American citizens, at least not those for the Constitution and LIMITED government, as most Americans are. It's the Communists, the Fascists and the Progressives shoving America toward total government and trampling the rights set out in the Constitution of we the people.

Sara.

-- March 3, 2010 12:16 PM


Sara wrote:

PM: Iraqi dinar re-evaluation has to do with economic conditions
February 28, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the process to re-evaluate the Iraqi dinar has to do with economic conditions that have to be strengthened.

“The Iraqi dinar has all the reasons to grow stronger thanks to an increase in revenues and development of the economy,” Maliki said in response to some questions through the National Information Center.

“The government would not rush matters but would rather work on finding all the guarantees to render this measure a success. The Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) is currently entrusted with drawing up a study on the whole issue and would give its decision soon,” said the Iraqi premier.

The Iraqi dinar’s exchange rate is suffering from low value against foreign currencies as a result of decades of wars and economic embargo that brought the local currency’s exchange rate to the rock bottom from three dinars per dollar in the late 1970s and 1980s to 3,000 dinars per dollar after the 1990 invasion of Kuwait, followed by a 13-year crippling sanctions regime.

The exchange rate fell even more after 2003 to reach 1170 dinars per dollar due to the CBI’s policy of daily auction, in effect for more than five years now.

The policy was lambasted by several economists on the grounds that these auctions do not give the real value of the country’s local currency.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127789

It is my understanding that Mr. Maliki could have RVed the currency and given a real value to it for a long time now. He is fundamentally and ideologically opposed to the measure, and this is his merely pretending publicly that he might be open to it because he knows it will benefit the PEOPLE of his country and they would like it, so he must feign that he will do something that helps them and meets their goals. If he gets re-elected, he will keep a tight fist over the people, not RVing the currency, and keeping them in poverty. Then he can bypass the use of the currency and exchange oil for the goods "Iraq" needs. This bypasses prosperity to the people, and keeps a tight government control over prosperity which he and those with him currently hold. They remain rich, the people remain poor, simple enough. He HAS NOT and WILL NOT revalue. He could have and has refused to do so for many years. If the Iraqi people believe his statements, above, that he is in the least open to the suggestion of a REAL VALUE for the currency, they will get more of what they have had all along economically. As he says, above, "The government would not rush matters"... they will put the idea of a RV into the deep freeze if Maliki wins. Maliki has learned from Obama.. promise the people anything they want.. then give them what you want them to have instead. It used to be called lying, and was frowned upon. Politics as usual?

Sara.

-- March 3, 2010 1:03 PM


Sara wrote:

If I were Iraqi and were to vote, I would vote for Allawi.

Iraq, Iran and the Premiership
Posted on: Mon, Mar 01, 2010

Leader of the Supreme Islamic Council in Iraq (SICI) Ammar Al-Hakim and radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Al-Sadr are said to have received assurances that Iran will not prefer former Iraqi PM Ayad Allawi to any other Shiite candidate for the Iraqi Premiership. The following 380-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Sadr Movement reacted and what PM Nouri Al-Maliki is doing to block the way for Allawi to take over the Premiership.

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq_Iran_and_the_Premiership/1095

A bit of background on him:

===

Born in 1945, Allawi was born into a well-to-do Shia Muslim merchant family. Shiite Muslims make up two-thirds of Iraq; the remaining third are predominately Sunnis, although a small number of Kurds also occupy the country. Allawi came by his interest in politics through his family, particularly his grandfather, who helped with the negotiations to release Iraq from British control, and his father, a member of the Iraqi parliament. During his college years, while studying medicine in Iraq, Allawi met Saddam Hussein and the two joined the Ba'ath party, which gained prominence in the mid-1960s through its advocacy of secular rather than Muslim governments. Allawi rose quickly in the party's ranks, and was an active supporter of Ba'athist activities even when the new party was banned. Although the initial goals of the Ba'ath party focused on setting up socialist, secular governments in the Middle East, those aims soon changed, particularly after Hussein took control in the early 1970s.

In 1971 Allawi moved to Great Britain, where he continued his medical education. While in school in London, he remained active in Iraqi politics, and was president of the Iraqi Student Union in Europe. Returning to Iraq following graduation, he established a career as a neurologist and also resumed a prominent place in the Ba'ath party. He soon became disillusioned with the party, however, due to the direction in which Hussein was taking it, and he resigned from the party in 1975. Although Hussein pressured Allawi to rejoin the Ba'ath party, Allawi refused and left the country in self-imposed exile. Returning to London, he became a Ba'athist target, and in February of 1978 he was attacked in his home by an assassin Hussein presumably sent after him. Attacking Allawi with an ax in the dead of night while the former Ba'athist was in bed, the assassin then left, believing Allawi to be dead. Although wounded critically in the head, right leg, and chest, Allawi survived the attack and spent almost a year in the hospital recovering.

Dedicated to Toppling Hussein Regime

Even before his release from the hospital following the attack, Allawi started a movement to organize other exiles from the Ba'athist regime into the Iraqi National Accord (INA), his ultimate aim to remove Hussein from power. While primary supporters of the INA were the British government, the organization was also covertly supported by Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and the CIA. Allawi's group was made up primarily of former military personnel who had defected from Hussein's dictatorship. The INA gained in power, and in 1996 the group's leadership believed the organization was strong enough to mount a coup against Hussein. Unfortunately, the attempt proved unsuccessful, and the INA leadership was forced to rethink its approach.

Before the INA could initiate a second coup attempt, the United States initiated its War on Terror in response to the attacks on New York City and Washington, D.C., on September 11, 2001. Eventually focusing its efforts on the potential threat posed by Hussein due to his link with terrorist organizations, in March of 2003 the Unites States managed to topple Hussein's dictatorship. The U.S. government then set up a Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to work with the Iraqi people to establish an interim government in preparation for bringing about democratic elections. Allawi was invited to sit on the CPA council charged with the selection of an interim prime minister scheduled to take power on June 30, 2004. In May of 2004 the council chose Allawi to be the interim leader. "Even though he is a secular Shiite, Allawi won the tacit approval of the top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani," Alissa J. Rubin and Maggie Farley reported in the Houston Chronicle Online. The journalists deemed this "a crucial step since Shiites are a majority of the population," and noted that the choice of Allawi was also due to the fact that his organization, the INA, "has also worked closely with Kurds and Sunni Muslims."

http://www.answers.com/topic/iyad-allawi

I believe he would RV the Dinar and the people of Iraq would prosper and be in freedom under his hand.

Sara.

-- March 3, 2010 1:15 PM


Sara wrote:

A part of the MSM finally concedes the Victory that has happened in Iraq:

===

Jon Meacham on Newsweek Cover: "Victory at Last" The Emergence of a Democratic Iraq
Tuesday, March 2, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit

PIC: Newsweek cover: That would be Bush in front of the Mission Accomplished banner...

Meacham: "What General Petraeus did and what President Bush came to, does seem to have worked"...

SEE:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789//vp/35660494#35660494

Meacham:

"Our reporting has shown..That in fact there is a level of stability...We did fight a war in Iraq, which virtually has not been discussed, and what General Petraeus did and what President Bush came to, does seem to have worked.. What the reporting shows is that enough people got tired of an insurgency in which there was no way out, even for the insurgency"

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/jon-meacham-on-newsweek-cover-victory.html

-- March 3, 2010 3:51 PM


Steve wrote:

Well I am well pleased that god gave me a scroll button
it has been very usefull a lot lately, LOL

-- March 3, 2010 9:57 PM


Sara wrote:

What ARE you?

I took this quiz and lo and behold.. I am not what I kinda thought I was.

This quiz shows you if you are a Liberal, Conservative, Statist or Libertarian.

Very cool.. do try it.

Rob N.. I would be interested to know what you are, if you would share the results of the quiz.

http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

I thought I was a conservative.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 12:19 AM


Sara wrote:

Roger and Board;

You have GOT to see these recent NASA images of the earth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1254834/Nasa-reveals-detailed-images-Earth.html

They are "the most detailed views of Earth to date."
Awe inspiring, especially when you've been right THERE.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 12:27 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

Whoaaaa, beautiful..kind of put our problems in perspective.

R

-- March 4, 2010 3:06 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

Since you worship President Bush as non-fallible on Iraq I thought you might find those comments he made about our beloved Constitution. These comments also cements my view that Bush and Obama are both neo-con fascist.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 4, 2010 11:12 AM


Sara wrote:

Rob N;

The MSM pushed President Bush, HARD, on everything. That he snapped at them is likely inevitable, and I would never have wished his place for the incredible religious persecution he had to endure at their atheistic and non-godfearing hands. I have never seen such disrespect shown to any President, and so undeserved. That he stuck to his principles and did not waver in spite of their hatred and false accusations will be rewarded by God another time. As I posted, the MSM is finally admitting the victory in Iraq. Reality will eventually win out.. in this world and the next, may the chips fall where they may. However, the fact was, he did go beyond the Constitution.. with the Patriot Act, to keep America safe. It was intended to be temporary, a fix until the crisis was over. The Democrats have now cemented it forever as permanent and it is against the Constitution and its provisions for the people, I admit. I still believe President Bush did well, and is not a fascist as you allege. Fascism is total government control by religious zealots, like in Iran or was under Hitler's fascist (and religious) ideology of "survival of the fittest" taken to the extreme of being a Master Race (Hitler's race, of course). No true fascist could ever give up power. That Bush did, in accordance with the dictates of the Constitution, shows he never was what you allege he was. You never understood him, nor have you understood the Armed Forces which protect you from tyranny every day. You bought into a charicature those on the left wanted you to believe, in order that they might seize more power and shove their radical agenda of more government control down all of America's throats. President Bush was not a threat to America, he loved it and tried his best to defend it. Was he perfect? No. But he was a lot more for America and for Americans and their interests than the current direction the blind hatred whipped up toward President Bush has resulted in. Would this video have been necessary to make under President Bush?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxg7LmlEQg

Yet this is where America has gone due to the blind hatred and false rantings of such as espouse your "fascist" lies against this God-fearing man whose hope was to serve honorably and keep the America he loved safe from terrorism. An aim, I might point out, that he managed to accomplish.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 1:12 PM


Sara wrote:

RobN;

On your use of pejoratives..

Obviously, I take exception to your saying I "worship" any man. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a Christian (follower of Christ).
As for your fascist pejorative, I found this on wikipedia and think it appropriate:

Fascist as epithet
Main article: Fascist (epithet)

In political discourse, the term "fascist" is commonly used to denote authoritarian tendencies, but is often used as a pejorative epithet by adherents to both left-wing and right-wing politics to denigrate those with opposing viewpoints. George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’". Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times".

(end quote)

I agree with this and think you are using the word only as a term of denigration and a pejorative, perhaps synonymous with bully, but not in any substantive intellectual sense. I also note on the page this statement, "No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any such definition.[27]"

So, while I have seen your use of the term as a disparaging remark against President Bush as though a) he were a dictator trying to seize power or b) a "bully" because he made a stand against terrorism and tried to do what he felt was right in light of 911.. or c) a person with religious convictions many felt would be imposed upon them as Iran does its citizens, yet it has not been with any substance that these accusations have been levelled at President Bush.

Obviously, a dictator would not cede power, and Bush has. Bush's implementing the Patriot Act was with sunsets and as only a temporary measure, so as far as Bush was concerned and actually came to pass under his Administration, was not doing a permanent change or violation of the US Constitution. His making a strong stand against terrorism and taking the fight to those most likely to strike again has justification.. The Saddam tapes, remember.. Saddam was saying he would use WMD against America as soon as he could get his hands on them and the experts say he was one year from a nuclear bomb.

QUOTE:
Additionally, concerning the 36 million captured pages of documentation, when it was put on the net for public translation, it was removed after they found quote, "detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb." As The New York Times confirmed in their issue November 3, 2006, Saddam had complete plans for a nuclear weapon and was in the process of procuring parts when the US removed him. Quote: "nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away." [63]

Additionally, tapes with Saddam speaking on them also surfaced and certain sinister remarks Saddam made on the tapes were translated which showed that he threatened to use WMD on Washington, DC. In the article , "Saddam Translator: ABC Reinterpreted Tapes" dated Feb. 17th 2006, the FBI translator who supplied the 12 hours of Saddam Hussein audiotapes excerpted by ABC's "Nightline" says the network discarded his translations and went with a less threatening version of the Iraqi dictator's comments. In the "Nightline" version of the 1996 recording, Saddam predicts that Washington, D.C., would be hit by terrorists. But he adds that Iraq would have nothing to do with the attack. Tierney says, however, that what Saddam actually said was much more sinister. "He was discussing his intent to use chemical weapons against the United States and use proxies so it could not be traced back to Iraq," he told Hannity. In a passage not used by "Nightline," Tierney says Saddam declares: "Terrorism is coming. ... In the future there will be terrorism with weapons of mass destruction. What if we consider this technique, with smuggling?" [64]

Concerning additional tapes uncovered where Saddam is being briefed by his Son-in-law, Lieutenant General Hussein, ABC News reports his words to Saddam Hussein: "Sir, I would not be speaking so openly if it were not for your excellency's and Mr. Tariq's clarification and statement that we produced biological weapons. We did not reveal all that we have. Secondly, they don't know about our work in the domain of missiles. With regard to the issue of the chemical, sir, ... In the chemical, sir, they have a problem far bigger than the biological, bigger than the biological. Not the type of the weapons, not the volume of the materials we imported, not the volume of the production we told them about, not the volume of use. None of this was correct. They don't know any of this. We did not reveal the volume of the chemical weapons that we had produced. We did not reveal the type of the chemical weapons. We did not reveal the truth about the volume of the imported materials. In the nuclear, sir, in the biological, we also disagree with them. As for the nuclear, we say we have disclosed everything but no. We have undeclared problems in nuclear as well, and I believe that they know. There are teams working with no one knowing about some of them. I go back to the question of whether we should reveal everything or continue to be silent... I would say it is in our interest not to reveal. Not just out of fear of disclosing the technology we achieved, or to hide it for future work... [65]

Another of the documents show that Saddam ordered suicide attacks on the US, which then, within a year, could have become nuclear. In the article "Saddam Ordered Suicide Attacks on U.S. Targets" dated April 6th 2006, it states, "A newly translated document from Saddam Hussein's intelligence files indicates that the Iraqi dictator ordered suicide attacks against U.S. targets six months before the 9/11 attacks." [66]

Also, there was another document discovered proving that Saddam was intending to attack London in this article "Saddam was training terrorists for attacks in London" dated March 27th 2006...

http://www.conservapedia.com/Operation_Iraqi_Freedom

Though Bush was seen as a "bully" for not sitting back and letting the terrorists continue unhampered in their goals, I believe history will prove that his was the right decision.

As for the last point, the imposition of religious views on others, all law is the imposion of someone's views for the collective good. We think stealing and killing are wrong, and so we make laws to punish and prevent those issues. They are both in the Ten Commandments and religious laws have served mankind well in keeping safe and sane societies. It is merely WHICH set of "religious" laws are to be enforced. Would those advocating against any "religious" laws repeal those against murder and stealing because the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal"?? The issue here is not the standing of religion in law, it is the imposition of wrong ideology from any source, such as was so under Hitler with his views of "survival of the fittest" and that meaning there was a "Master Race" - his. President Bush was a God-fearing man, imperfect, for sure, but definitely not pretending and claiming to believe in God while actually being an agnostic in practice. His obvious and real faith concerned those with no religious affiliation, but Bush never used power to bring about crushing totalitarian religious rule over them such as you find in Iran. So, as far as I can see, he was not a fascist as you say he was.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 2:30 PM


Sara wrote:

Back to Iraq and the Dinar..

I had posted this earlier.. but I repost it again to support the idea I put forwad that if Maliki gets in, he will just use OIL REVENUE to "solve" the problems.. not RV the currency. That bypasses any prosperity for the endentured servants of Iraq, who will continue to be in poverty under his economic vision. Only RV puts the money directly into the people's hands and allows them to buy anything from out of the country with a truly valued Dinar.

===

Oil revenues optimization would solve Iraq’s problems – Maliki
February 28, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on Sunday that the optimization of Iraq’s oil revenues would solve all the country’s problems and repay all foreign debts.

“Contracts with global oil corporations and conglomerates can also help repay all compensations for some Arab and Gulf states and meet all reconstruction obligations,” Maliki said in response to questions through the National Information Center.

Since 2003, Iraq has been seeking to have its $120 billion worth of foreign debts accumulated during the former regime’s time written off. The war-ravaged country, however, managed to get nearly half of this sum - $55 billion owed to the Paris Club of creditor nations – dropped.

Still Iraq owes a sum of $21 billion to some Arab countries, including $21 billion to the Gulf states - $15 billion to Saudi Arabia and $6 billion to Kuwait, over which negotiations are underway.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127795

NOTE no mention of RV here.. it is all using oil to pay for things.
The contracts are not with revalued Dinar currency in mind, but using oil to pay for things directly, bypassing the Dinar/people issue entirely.
This is how it is done NOW at this day... this same policy continuing on for the Iraqi people.
It means they don't get to use the proper value of their Dinar to buy outside goods.
Without proper trade using the true valuation of the Dinar, the people will remain unable to afford anything their country does not produce.
And Iraq does not produce a lot for their own people.
Instead, the prosperity and power remain in few hands.. and Maliki would remain king over them through it.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 2:46 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

As for Rob N. Reason and logic will not work. Fixed ideas, and self serving circuits in his mind have overpowered his persona, thus any logic. You will never see a reflection, after thought, or self criticism.

I have seen a gallant effort from your side, directing Rob N. to where he can get info, where to look, where to find stuff, but he is completely unable to observe.

You do all the effort of giving him long pages with info, and your own reasoning.

The only response back is a one or two liner from him, repeating his old regurgitated "Neo Con Faschist AmeriKa" crap.

You put in all this effort, he doesn't look at it, at best he scan's it, he doesn't have more attention units than that, he doesn't comprehend it, have no will, ambition or desire to do so either. He is all set, how the world works.

His response to you, is an affair that is a matter of seconds.

Rob N. is living in his own dark universe.

To turn that guy into a responding individual, would involve an effort that would include his whole person, an issue that is beyond this blog.

His political and economic view is only a small part of his spectrum, going beyond that, and you will find a horror story.

He is an expert of trying to suck you in, but his reasoning reminds me very much about the Monthy Python scetch, about the guy that bought an argument.

(Its probably on You Tube, it is hillarious, check it out)

Its an endless:

-"Yes it is"
-"No it isn't"

Rob N. probbly have been this way the whole time, but at the time he was into Dinars, he was "with us" , and supressed his way of being, once out of the Dinars, he probably feel that he can let lose.

Hi creativity is very impaired, and he goes by routine and circuits.

Once out of the Dinar, he still are into the Dinars. The old circuits are controlling this guy, and he is unable to move on. He lives in a hypnotic state. He's been clicking on the T&B for years, and even after he sold out his Dinars, the old circuit of clicking onto T&B is as real as ever before.

Sara, you are doing a gallantly effort, but this guy will not respond to anything.

The help he needs, is of a different kind.

As of the Dinars in general.

Waiting game as usually, but with some exciting stuff coming up Mars the 7th.

Lot of specualtion on this issue.

Will the Iraqis be a happy community now, or will it lead to civil war, as some have predicted.

I doubt the civil war scenario, it's just not in the cards.

One thing though that have happened that is a positive thing for Iraq is the political scene have moved from sectarien to political. There are a lot of alliances forming between Sunni and Shiite parties.

I think even if there is a lot of speculation in what parties or government will form now, after the election, the main issue is that the population is expecting a big change, and whoever gets into power, better pay the piper.

Usually after an election, there is a bit of euphoria in the new administration, and some excitement of taking over the rudder, (usually lasts about a couple of months....judging from past elections here in the US).

That is usually the time when the winning pary are consolidating the victory, and are busy appointing persons in key positions.

If there is an agenda that the new powers have been pushing , they especially use this time to get a head start on it ( Obama pushing health care reform almost before he took the oath of office)

The election will be a very interesting event, but as interesting, will be to see what powers will emerge after the winning party (or parties) have done all their appointments to the different offices.

From the election to a functional government ( hopefully....it is Iraq after all) the month after will be very interesting to watch.

R

-- March 4, 2010 4:27 PM


Sara wrote:

Thanks, Roger. You are, of course, correct. And I did like that Monty Python one.. you know, the guy taking his bird back for a refund.. "Yes it is." "No, its not."

As for Iraq, it is very exciting the elections and all.. I also do not think that they will have problems with forming the government or governing. It is just whether they will do it with a RV or without, from our perspective. If Maliki gets in, I think the prospect of an RV is very remote. Changes will be small and Iraqis will not share in the prosperity for some time to come.

Today between 600 and 700 thousand of the security personnel turned out for early voting, and there were some attacks, killing some of them.

===

Iraq blasts kill 17 as early voting begins
Baghdad, Mar 4, AP:

A string of blasts across the Iraqi capital targeting voters killed 17 people Thursday, authorities said, ratcheting up fear in an already tense city as many Iraqis cast early ballots ahead of Sunday’s nationwide parliamentary elections.

Insurgents have repeatedly threatened to use violence to disrupt the elections, which will help determine who will oversee the country as US forces go home and whether the country can overcome its deep sectarian divides. Two of Thursday’s blasts hit voters outside polling stations.

“Terrorists wanted to hamper the polls, thus they started to blow themselves up in the streets,” said Deputy Interior Minister Ayden Khalid Qader.
Many of the victims were believed to be security personnel — the main group to cast their ballots during early voting since they will be working on election day.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are expected to take part in Thursday’s early voting, a one-day session designed for those who might not be able to get to the polls on Sunday, when the rest of the country votes.

The United Nations Assistance Mission to Iraq estimated that between 600,000 and 700,000 people could vote Thursday. About 19 million of Iraq’s estimated 28 million people are eligible to vote in the elections, which will see Iraqi expatriates cast ballots in 16 countries around the world.

Three deadly blasts in Baghdad rattled those taking part in early voting.

In the first, a rocket killed seven people in Hurriya. The second attack took place in the Mansour when a bomber detonated an explosive vest near a group of soldiers lining up to vote. In the third blast, another suicide bomber blew himself up near policemen waiting to vote.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/56231/iraq-blasts-kill-17-early.html

-- March 4, 2010 5:03 PM


Sara wrote:

Drawdown from Iraq on schedule, U.S. says
Published: March. 4, 2010

WASHINGTON, March 4 (UPI) -- Pre-election violence in Iraq will not derail U.S. military plans to start pulling combat forces out of the country this year, Pentagon officials said.

Geoff Morrell, a spokesman for the U.S. Defense Department, said U.S. military plans in Iraq were on schedule despite the violence.

"Neither this attack nor any of the previous attempts to derail the electoral process and to destabilize the government have been or will be successful, nor do we anticipate that it will derail our responsible drawdown of forces in Iraq," said Morrell.

The U.S. military has around 96,000 soldiers in Iraq who will stay on duty in the weeks after March 7 elections. Once the post-election situation is stabilized, Washington will move to bring the troop level to 50,000 by Sept. 1.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/03/04/Drawdown-from-Iraq-on-schedule-US-says/UPI-33561267730042/

-- March 4, 2010 5:17 PM


Sara wrote:

Senate: US has stake in Iraq elections
Mar 4 2010

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Nearly seven years after the US-led invasion of Iraq, the US Senate approved Thursday a symbolic bill vowing to help make the country's upcoming parliamentary elections a success.

In the non-binding measure, the Senate also "reaffirms the United States' strong commitment to building a robust, long-term partnership with Iraq that strengthens Iraq's security, stability, economy, and democracy."

And it "recognizes the United States' clear and enduring interest in partnering with the people of Iraq in building a stable, representative, successful, democratic state."

Democratic Senator John Kerry and Republican Senator John McCain co-wrote the resolution, which passed unanimously.

The measure urges US President Barack Obama's administration to make Iraq's March parliamentary elections a success and calls on Iraqi political parties not to cast doubt on the vote's legitimacy or fan sectarian flames.

In a thinly-veiled message to Iran, it urges Iraq's neighbors "to refrain from exercising malign and destabilizing interference in Iraq's internal affairs; and to allow the people of Iraq to determine their own future."

The resolution also praises Iraq's people for "the courage they have shown; the sacrifices they have endured and the hard-won gains they have made in fighting terrorism, finding peace and building democracy."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100304/pl_afp/iraqvoteuspolitics

-- March 4, 2010 5:24 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq voting begins
Salam Faraj, Agence France-Presse
Published: Thursday, March 04, 2010

Sunni Arabs were expected to turn out in force to cast their ballots, in stark contrast to the last general election in 2005 which they mostly boycotted in protest at the rise to power of the nation's long-oppressed Shiite majority.

That boycott deepened the sectarian divide and heightened violence which has only eased in the past two years.

A Shiite is almost certain to take the top job of prime minister.

Shiites were united in the 2005 polls but this time round are divided, a development hailed by some as a move away from rigid sectarian politics.

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, the Shiite head of the State of Law Alliance, a religious coalition with a secular outlook that includes Sunni tribal sheikhs, said on Wednesday he was "certain" of poll victory.

His rivals include former premier Iyad Allawi, who heads the Iraqiya list, a secular coalition which has strong support in Sunni areas.

Also seeking the top job are Ahmed Chalabi, a former deputy premier once favoured but now loathed by Washington; Adel Abdel Mahdi, the country's Shiite vice president, and Baqer Jaber Solagh, the finance minister.

Chalabi, Mahdi and Solagh all represent the Iraq National Alliance, the main Shiite religious list.

Under the Iraqi electoral system no one party will emerge with the 163 seats needed to form a government on its own and the ensuing horse-trading to form a governing coalition could be protracted.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2641461&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NP_Top_Stories+%28National+Post+-+Top+Stories%29

Under the Iraqi electoral system no one party will emerge with the 163 seats needed to form a government on its own and the ensuing horse-trading to form a governing coalition could be protracted.

Chances are, the process will take some time to consolidate after the electoral process.. likely longer than over here.

Sara.

-- March 4, 2010 5:37 PM


Sara wrote:

Another of those conspiracy theories bites the dust..
The Iraq war really wasn't planned from all eternity.. but was a result of perceived threat to the nation.
It wasn't lying at all.. and the MSM was complicit in perpetrating and perpetuating these false accusations.
They will have a lot to answer for.

Sara.

===

Rove on Iraq: Without W.M.D. Threat, Bush Wouldn’t Have Gone to War
By PETER BAKER
March 3, 2010

Karl Rove, the chief political adviser to President George W. Bush and architect of his two successful campaigns for the White House, says in a new memoir that his former boss probably would not have invaded Iraq had he known there were no weapons of mass destruction there.

Mr. Rove adamantly rejects allegations that the administration deliberately lied about the presence of weapons in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. But he acknowledges that the failure to find them badly damaged Mr. Bush’s presidency, and he blames himself for not countering the narrative that “Bush lied,” calling it “one of the biggest mistakes of the Bush years.”

The new book by Mr. Rove, who served as senior adviser and deputy chief of staff in the White House, offers the most expansive account yet of the Bush presidency by one of the people most responsible for it. Addressing some of the most controversial and consequential moments of Mr. Bush’s eight years in power, Mr. Rove takes responsibility for the widely criticized Air Force One flyover after Hurricane Katrina and writes of his secret fear of being indicted in the C.I.A. leak case.

For the most part, his book, “Courage and Consequence: My Life as a Conservative in the Fight,” is an unapologetic defense of Mr. Bush and his presidency, and takes aim at Democrats, the news media and others for what he describes as hypocrisy, deceit and vanity.

What many historians may focus on is his description of the war in Iraq, its origins and consequences. While many have accused the administration of drumming up a case for war on the back of false intelligence about Mr. Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, or W.M.D., Mr. Rove maintains that the White House genuinely believed the reports, and pointed to Democrats who accepted them as valid as well.

Most intriguing is his rumination on what would have happened had Mr. Bush known the truth. While the opportunity to bring democracy to the Middle East as a bulwark against Islamic extremism “justified the decision to remove Saddam Hussein,” Mr. Rove makes clear that from the start, at least, the suspected weapons and their perceived threat were the primary justification for war.

“Would the Iraq War have occurred without W.M.D.? I doubt it,” he writes. “Congress was very unlikely to have supported the use-of-force resolution without the W.M.D. threat. The Bush administration itself would probably have sought other ways to constrain Saddam, bring about regime change, and deal with Iraq’s horrendous human rights violations.”

He adds: “So, then, did Bush lie us into war? Absolutely not.” But Mr. Rove said the White House had only a “weak response” to the harmful allegation, which became “a poison-tipped dagger aimed at the heart of the Bush presidency.”

“So who was responsible for the failure to respond?” he writes. “I was. I should have stepped forward, rung the warning bell and pressed for full-scale response. I didn’t. Preoccupied with the coming campaign and the pressure of the daily schedule in the West Wing, I did not see how damaging this assault was.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/03/rove-on-iraq-without-w-m-d-threat-bush-wouldnt-have-gone-to-war/?hp

-- March 4, 2010 5:49 PM


Alex A wrote:

hello im new to this discussion i purchased dinars awhile ago and was wondering if anyone could tell me what is exactly going on with it. i go to a currency converter often and i saw that the iraq government will be taking three zeros off of there current currency but it will not change anything? hope some one can help thanks
-Alex A

-- March 4, 2010 10:35 PM


Roger wrote:

Alex A,

One of the first things you shoul do in orer to get the official exchange rate is to go to the Central Banks of Iraq,s official site and check the rate there.

All other rates wherever you see them, stem from the CBI's exchange rate settings.

If you are looking at a Midle Easts Bank in a country close by, you are getting just that, THAT banks exchange rate, an that rate can differ more or less from the official rate, this is normal bank practice though, the bank get the profit in spread between the CBIs quoted price, and the Midle East banks quoted price.

If you check how much you will have to squeese out of your wallet to get a million or so here in the US, you need to go to Dinar dealers, and they have their own quotes, and of course, keep the spread.

So Alex A, you can go to a number of sources to get a quote on the Iraqi Dinar, this has in some instances led to some confusion, but if you remember that the CBI is the only offical institution that can set the Iraqi Dinar, then you know where all the other sources are coming from.

All the other sources are not necessarily illegit, they have to get a spread in order to make business, and survive, but you know now that it is just not the offical source.

As a newbie you should know that the zero lop have been up over and over again, but never materialized. It may of course be a possibillity, but the latest hoopla about it sems to have die down, but don't worry, the zero lop argument will come up in a periodic and predictable 5.83 months interval.

By some reason or the other the zero loop argument have got the same name as what the old cowboy had named his fart. He was living on beans and bacon only, and at every sunset he had to pass this enormous amount of methane gas.

He always smiled and said the same thing everyday when it came:

-"Yeap, yeap, aaaaalways on time, ..the ooooool faithful"

-- March 4, 2010 11:05 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

Ah ok no, I know that scetch too, it is a classic.

-"I woud like to complain about the Parrot I bought in this store."

-"Ah yes I remeber that one, Norwegian Blue wonerful plumage."

_"Well, its dead"

-"No he's just resting"

-"Look I Know a dead parrot when I see one".

No this was another similar scetch, about this guy that walked into a Govt Building and entered the Dep of Arguments.

He pays his 5 Pounds and starts arguing.

The arguments ends up being about the argument, I'm sure it's on You Tube.

-- March 4, 2010 11:22 PM


Rob J wrote:

Rob N:

Although I rarely post on this forum, I have been a regular reader since its inception. It would seem to me that you no longer have an interest or stake in the "Dinar game". All I see is conspiracy rants about "Amerika" and dialogue about everything that you view wrong with our country. Do us all a favor and go find another forum where you can debate the merits of our form of government and its leaders. I came to this site primarily for Dinar discussion and viewpoints. I grow weary of your incessant negativity. While I support your constitutional right to free speech, I suggest you find a different venue more suitable for you. That would be the courteous thing to do.

Rob J

-- March 5, 2010 12:43 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

You are in a neo-con haze and you are impaired from making a right judgement about an imperalistic foreign policy. Our government criticized the Soviets for their imperialistic invasion of Afghanistan and now we are attempting to do what the Soviets did 25 years ago. The U.S. is horrible at imperialistic conquest. Iraq and Afghanistan are total failures regardless of the nazi like propaganda you cut and paste.

Malaki and Karzai are both puppets of the United States and should they choose to cast off the strings of the puppeteer they will suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein. Concerning Saddam's WMDs; On June 18, 2004 an article appeared entitled; Reagan's WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein. If Saddam had WMDs it is the United States that supplied them to him. How hypocritical is it we invaded Iraq for having the very weapons we supplied him?

The United States foreign policy is such that we would rather support a dictator like Musharraf in Pakistan who camne to power through a coup overthrowing a democratically elected government. The United States installed the Shah in Iran. When the people of Iran had enough they overthrew the puppet. These events prove how broken our foreign policy is. Eventually, a coup against Al-Malaki and Karzai will occur. The United States will experience failure again.

Sara, there is nothing our military industrial complex is protecting me from by being in Iraq or Afghanistan. The war on terror is an enigmatic boogey man that does not exist. The War on Terror is more propaganda in an effort to implement a police state. George W. Bush threw away the constitution (it is just a piece of paper, right?)and proceeded to violate privacy laws, wire tapping laws etc. by the Patriot Act. Obama is following the same policies.

Sadly, the men and women in our military are mindless pawns obeying orders that should not be obeyed. The American Soldier in concert should have refused to deploy to Iran and Afghanistan. George W. Bush failed in linking Iraq with the World Trade Center Bombings of 9/11. Speaking of 9/11 how did building 7 fall when it was not hit at all? This is for another discussion.

The fact is we cannot even finance our own wars. The trillions of dollars spent in Iraq nad the trillions of dollars spent in Afghanistan is paid for because China and Japan agree to finance this debt. These two nations in Asia are creditors while the United States and the Europeans are debtors. This is also evidence that our foreign policy is broken and in disarray. The final act in this farce is a bankrupt America defeated in the middle east owing the Chinese and the Japanese the very souls of the 300,000,000 million people who are citizens of the United States. If I were you Sara I would begin learning Mandarin. This will be beneficial in the near future.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 5, 2010 12:52 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Reagan’s WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein
by Jacob G. Hornberger, June 18, 2004


Given all the indignant neoconservative “outrage” over the financial misdeeds arising from the UN’s socialist oil-for-food program during the 1990s, when the UN embargo was killing untold numbers of Iraqi children, one would think that there would be an equal amount of outrage over a much more disgraceful scandal — the U.S. delivery of weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein during the Reagan administration in the 1980s.

After all, as everyone knows, it was those WMDs that U.S. officials, from President Bush and Vice-President Cheney on down, ultimately used to terrify the American people into supporting the invasion and war of aggression against Iraq, a war that has killed or maimed thousands of innocent people — that is, people who had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington.

In an October 1, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Got Germs for Weapons Program from U.S. in ’80s,” Associated Press writer Matt Kelly wrote,

[The] Iraqi bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records that are getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that U.N. weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show. Iraq had ordered the samples, saying it needed them for legitimate medical research.

The CDC and a biological-sample company, the American Type Culture Collection, sent strains of all the germs Iraq used to make weapons, including anthrax, the bacteria that make botulinum toxin, and the germs that cause gas gangrene, the records show. Iraq also got samples of other deadly pathogens, including West Nile virus.

The transfers came in the 1980s, when the United States backed Iraq in its war against Iran.
In a December 17, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program,” the Associated Press stated,
Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe, the United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam Hussein needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq’s 1996 accounting of its nuclear program....

Iraq’s report says the equipment was either sold or made by more than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies and a handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian firms. It says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.

It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf War and contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment, detonation, implosion testing and warhead construction....

Most of the sales were legal and often made with the knowledge of governments. In 1985–90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example, licensed $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential military uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran, which at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the oil-rich Gulf region.
In a September 26, 2002, article entitled “Following Iraq's Bioweapons Trail,” columnist Robert Novak wrote,
An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease-producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American-exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.
In a September 18, 2002, ABC article entitled “A Tortured Relationship,” reporter Chris Bury wrote,
Indeed, even as President Bush castigates Saddam’s regime as “a grave and gathering danger,” it’s important to remember that the United States helped arm Iraq with the very weapons that administration officials are now citing as justification for Saddam’s forcible removal from power.
In a March 16, 2003, article entitled “How Iraq Built Its Weapons Program,” in the St. Petersburg Times, staff writer Tom Drury wrote,
Yet here we are, on the eve of what could turn into a $100-billion war to disarm and dismantle the Iraqi dictatorship. U.N. inspectors are working against the clock to figure out if Iraq retains chemical and biological weapons, the systems to deliver them, and the capacity to manufacture them.

And here’s the strange part, easily forgotten in the barrage of recent rhetoric: It was Western governments and businesses that helped build that capacity in the first place. From anthrax to high-speed computers to artillery ammunition cases, the militarily useful products of a long list of Western democracies flowed into Iraq in the decade before its 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
Unfortunately, the U.S.-WMD connection to Saddam Hussein involved more than just delivering those WMDs to him. In an August 18, 2002, New York Times article entitled “Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas,” Patrick E. Tyler wrote,
A covert American program during the Reagan administration provided Iraq with critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program.

Those officers, most of whom agreed to speak on the condition that they not be identified, spoke in response to a reporter’s questions about the nature of gas warfare on both sides of the conflict between Iran and Iraq from 1981 to 1988. Iraq’s use of gas in that conflict is repeatedly cited by President Bush and, this week, by his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, as justification for regime change in Iraq.
As writer Norm Dixon put it in his June 17, 2004, article “How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons,”
While the August 18 NYT article added new details about the extent of US military collaboration with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during Iraq's 1980-88 war with Iran, it omitted the most outrageous aspect of the scandal: not only did Ronald Reagan's Washington turn a blind-eye to the Hussein regime's repeated use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Iraq's Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
Immediately prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein delivered a WMD declarations report to the United Nations in an attempt to avert a U.S. invasion. Do you recall that U.S. officials intercepted the report and removed special sections of it, based on claims of “national security”? Well, it turned out that the removed sections involved the delivery of those WMDs by the United States and other Western countries to Saddam Hussein, information that obviously caused U.S. officials a bit of discomfort on the eve of their invasion.

In a February 3, 2003, Sunday Morning Herald article entitled, “Reaping the Grim Harvest We Have Sown,” writer Anne Summers wrote,

What is known is that the 10 non-permanent members had to be content with an edited, scaled-down version. According to the German news agency DPA, instead of the 12,000 pages, these nations — including Germany, which this month became president of the Security Council — were given only 3,000 pages.

So what was missing?

The Guardian reported that the nine-page table of contents included chapters on “procurements” in Iraq’s nuclear program and “relations with companies, representatives and individuals” for its chemical weapons program. This information was not included in the edited version.


In a June 9, 2004, article “Reagan Played a Decisive Role in Saddam Hussein’s Survival in Iran-Iraq War,” Agence France Presse points out,

In February 1982, the State Department dropped Baghdad from its list of state sponsors of terrorism, clearing the way for aid and trade.

A month later, Reagan ordered a review of US policy in the Middle East which resulted in a marked shift in favor of Iraq over the next year.

“Soon thereafter, Washington began passing high-value military intelligence to Iraq to help it fight the war, including information from US satellites that helped fix key flaws in the fortifications protecting al-Basrah that proved important in Iran’s defeat in the next month,” wrote Kenneth Pollack in his recently published book “The Threatening Storm.” ...

By March 1985, the United States was issuing Baghdad export permits for high tech equipment crucial for its weapons of mass destruction programs, according to Pollack.
In his June 8, 2004, article “Reagan and Saddam: The Unholy Alliance,” Alex Dawoody states,
By 1982, Iraq was removed from the list of terrorist sponsoring nations. By 1984, America was actively sharing military intelligence with Saddam’s army. This aid included arming Iraq with potent weapons, providing satellite imagery of Iranian troops deployments and tactical planning for battles, assisting with air strikes, and assessing damage after bombing campaigns.
One of the most fascinating parts of this entire sordid U.S. foreign-policy episode is that none other than Donald Rumsfeld played a key role in it. Yes, the same Donald Rumsfeld who, as U.S. Secretary of Defense, scared the American people to death with the thought that Saddam Hussein was about to employ the WMDs (which the U.S. had delivered to him) against them.

A December 31, 2002, CBS story entitled “U.S. and Iraq Go Way Back,” put it this way:

Newly released documents show that U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, played a leading role in building up Iraq's military in the 1980s when Iraq was using chemical weapons, a newspaper reports.

It was Rumsfeld, now defense secretary and then a special presidential envoy, whose December 1983 meeting with Saddam Hussein led to the normalization of ties between Washington and Baghdad, according to the Washington Post.

In an August 18, 2002, MSNBC article entitled “Rumsfeld Key Player in Iraq Policy Shift,” Robert Windrem wrote,
State Department cables and court records reveal a wealth of information on how U.S. foreign policy shifted in the 1980s to help Iraq. Virtually all of the information is in the words of key participants, including Donald Rumsfeld, now secretary of defense.

The new information on the policy shift toward Iraq, and Rumsfeld’s role in it, comes as The New York Times reported Sunday that the United States gave Iraq vital battle-planning help during its war with Iran as part of a secret program under President Reagan — even though U.S. intelligence agencies knew the Iraqis would unleash chemical weapons.
In a February 24, 2003, article entitled “Who Armed Saddam?” writer Stephen Green wrote,
And he’d probably read the front page Washington Post story (“U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup,” 12/30/02) based upon recently declassified documents, which revealed that it was Rumsfeld himself who, as President Reagan’s Middle East Envoy, had traveled to the Region to meet with Saddam Hussein in December 1983 to normalize, particularly, security relations.
In her article “Reaping the Grim Harvest We Have Sown,” Anne Summers reinforced this point:
In December 1983, Rumsfeld, then a special envoy to the Middle East appointed by President Reagan, travelled to Baghdad to inform Saddam Hussein that the United States was ready to resume full diplomatic relations with Iraq. A lengthy report in the Washington Post on December 30, 2002 — based on analysing thousands of pages of declassified government documents and interviews with former policy-makers — said that “US intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defences” following Rumsfeld’s visit.
So, what is Rumsfeld’s response to all this? Unfortunately, he suffers a malady that commonly afflicts Washington officials when a whiff of scandal is in the air: selective memory lapse. According to Matt Kelly’s article (cited above),
The disclosures put the United States in the position of possibly having provided key ingredients of the weapons it is considering waging war to destroy, said Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D., W.Va.), who entered the documents into the Congressional Record last month.

Byrd asked Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld about the germ transfers at a recent Senate Armed Services Committee hearing. Byrd noted that Rumsfeld met Saddam Hussein in 1983, when Rumsfeld was President Ronald Reagan’s Middle East envoy.

“Are we, in fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sown?” Byrd asked Rumsfeld after reading parts of a Newsweek article on the transfers.

“I have never heard anything like what you’ve read, I have no knowledge of it whatsoever, and I doubt it,” Rumsfeld said. He later said he would ask the Defense Department and other agencies to search their records for evidence of the transfers.
Or as Robert Novak put it in his column (cited above),
Sen. Robert Byrd, a master at hectoring executive branch witnesses, asked Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld a provocative question last week: Did the United States help Saddam Hussein produce weapons of biological warfare? Rumsfeld brushed off the Senate’s 84-year-old president pro tem like a Pentagon reporter. But a paper trail indicates Rumsfeld should have answered yes.
According to the article by Anne Summers (cited above),
These days Rumsfeld likes to downplay or even deny his role in helping arm Iraq with the makings of weapons of mass destruction. He has been quoted as saying he had “nothing to do” with helping Iraq fight Iran in the ’80s. However, the Washington Post says, “The documents show that his visits to Baghdad led to closer US-Iraqi cooperation on a wide variety of fronts.”

Given that the WMDs that were used to justify the invasion and war against Iraq never materialized, one would think that the neoconservatives who pushed and misled America into the war, and those members of Congress who complacently rubber-stamped the president’s actions, and those members of the press who served as the administration’s cheerleaders would be at least mildly outraged over how Saddam Hussein acquired his WMDs in the first place — from the United States and other countries during the Reagan administration. Unfortunately, the response has been the standard ho-hum one hears whenever the rot at the center of the empire surfaces: “It was just a policy mistake; it happened a long time ago; we need to put it behind us; and it’s now time to move on.”

It is that mindset of denial, however, that is certain to doom our nation to increasing conflicts, crises, and turmoil. To restore political, moral, and economic health to our country, it is necessary to excise the cancer associated with the unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power. In order to excise such a cancer, however, it is first necessary to acknowledge and confront its existence.


Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 5, 2010 12:54 PM


Sara wrote:

Hi Roger.. thanks, will look for it when I get a minute on youtube.
Been busy looking at the news, Iraq and everywhere else, just a catchup on what is happening.
I was concerned and interested in the story on the Pentagon security people shot by the "anti-Bush nut case and 911 Truther":

===
Pentagon Shooter: Anti-Bush Nut Case and 9/11 Truther
3/4/2010

There was a shooting just outside the Pentagon today, at a security checkpoint. Two cops were injured; breaking reports say the suspect, J. Patrick Bedell, has died.
QUOTE:

The suspect, believed to be a U.S. citizen, walked up to a security checkpoint at the Pentagon in an apparent attempt to get inside the massively fortified Defense Department headquarters, at about 6:40 p.m. local time. “He just reached in his pocket, pulled out a gun and started shooting” at point-blank range, Keevill said. “He walked up very cool. He had no real emotion on his face.” The Pentagon officers returned fire with semiautomatic weapons.

===end quote===

And Internet research shows that the guy was a 9/11 Truther and an anti-Bush nut case.

There is also plenty of creepily nerdy/calm ranting about government control of the economy. As a correspondent wrote to me: “If he thought Bush was out to get private property, just imagine what he thought after Obama’s first year.”

Save this link when Big Media tries to portray him as a Tea Partier or right-winger.

UPDATE: More 9/11 Truther evidence against this guy here. And a full transcript of the rant excerpted above, here.

http://patterico.com/2010/03/04/pentagon-shooter-anti-bush-nut-case-and-911-truther/

Interesting how it is those from the LEFT who tend to be violent, not the right.
I guess the right takes up arms, until they can lay them down without worrying someone else will kill them.
The real goal for the right is pacifism (the principle or policy that all differences among nations should be adjusted without recourse to war - Dictionary.com), IMHO, but only under the constraints of reality.
That day surely hasn't happened yet.
I will go back and read RobN's stuff now, and then maybe post some of the interesting stuff I read on Iraq and the elections today, as I get time.

Sara.

-- March 5, 2010 1:44 PM


Sara wrote:

RobN;

I would say your main point was summarized by saying:

The response has been the standard ho-hum - “It was just a policy mistake; it happened a long time ago; we need to put it behind us; and it’s now time to move on.” It is that mindset of denial, however, that is certain to doom our nation to increasing conflicts, crises, and turmoil. To restore political, moral, and economic health to our country, it is necessary to excise the cancer associated with the unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power. In order to excise such a cancer, however, it is first necessary to acknowledge and confront its existence.

==end quote==

The fact of it being a mistake and also a long time ago by an Administration which no longer exists, and Reagan is now dead does not seem to deter these detractors. It WAS a policy mistake, it WAS a long time ago and done by dead people, and we do have to put it behind us.. since we cannot change it by talking about it. IF he/you wish to discuss TODAY's "unrestrained — and oftentimes secret — exercise of government power" as the crux of the matter.. it cannot be by continual harkening back and harping on some dead guy's mistake, except to say that we shouldn't do that again.. agreed. Ok, no more selling WMD to dictators, sounds like a good policy to me.

The issue here isn't really what Reagan did, or even Bush and Saddam.. their time is long ago now, it is past. It is TODAY'S exercise of power you are objecting to.. and in that context, your view of Iraq (victory, freedom, democracy) and Afghanistan (still unsettled) is a subject of opinion. The question concerning Aghanistan is.. Is it a national security issue to the USA? The majority of people in the US feel that it is, because a Rasmussen poll late last year had these numbers concerning the public's outlook on the question, QUOTE:

Eighty-four percent (84%) of voters say Afghanistan is at least somewhat important to the national security of the United States. Thirty-eight percent (38%) rate it as very important. Only 12% say it’s not very or not at all important.

Republicans are more likely to view Afghanistan as very important to U.S. national security, but in general there is little partisan disagreement on the question.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/afghanistan/20_say_pull_all_troops_out_of_afghanistan_immediately

In light of these statistics, I would say that your views are definitely in the minority and do not reflect the on-the-ground reality of what the country has to face in the real world and what it feels is important over there, and to US national security aims.

As for your speaking about how the US sometimes uses clandestine operations (the drone attacks comes to mind) - that is a fact I doubt heartily your objections will finish. In an ideal world, such secret government exercise of power would be unnecessary, because mankind would not be attacking one another but living together in peace and harmony. That world is not upon us as yet. Until it is, I suggest that those in power are making use of whatever means they feel necessary to bolster their effectiveness and keep the country of America safe. If they fail or abuse their powers, they have God to answer to (since it is secret and we likely won't know about it until Judgement Day when all secrets of men are laid bare and open for all to see).. but for myself, I do not malign their motives based on inconclusive evidence and imputing ill intent upon them, when it is the government's role (Biblically speaking) to keep the peace and protect the people. As for their failures which do come to light, I think many times that Americans think it justifiable in the real world due to being faced with such enemies as America has. For instance, the majority believes that the intelligence gathering concerning waterboarding is justifiable, in spite of it being a horrible thing no one would really wish mankind had to do. Necessity drives mankind to all kinds of strange extremes.. life is truly a proving ground for how to work out good principles amongst the real world jungle. Here is that survey result discussion:

===

A waterboarding majority?
December 31, 2009
Posted by Ben Smith

Rasmussen's latest finds 58% saying "yes," after a bit of context, to: "Should waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques be used to gain information from the suspected bomber?"

The poll is just one more indication of what had become clear by last summer: The clichéd rule of politics under which Democrats must tread carefully on national security remains very much in effect.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1209/A_waterboarding_majority.html

All I am trying to say is.. I think your view comes from an ivory tower, with no connection to reality, wishing things were better. I cannot see that your "solutions" work in the real world and I think the American public has agreed with this course and direction, not because they are wicked or will evil in the world, but for good reasons having to do with national security.

I have to agree with Rob J.. it does seem a pointless endeavor to continue to discuss with you when you are not EVER on topic.. because you have no dinar or interest in our forum's main aim, to discuss Iraq and the Dinar.

Next post from me.. back to Dinar and talking about the upcoming elections..

Sara.

-- March 5, 2010 2:46 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

You again are completely wrong. The misdirected choices made by previous administrations have contributed to our present foreign policy; so, what Regan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush are pertinent.

Concerning the Pentagon shooter I would bet it is a false flag attack in a similar fashion as the Autin, Tx plane crash into the IRS building there. The agenda here is to convert America into a police state under the guise of security.

I am open to discuss the misguided policies of the CBI related to the Dinar. A three zero lop will occur this year as has been stated numerous of times. Once the lop occurs the Dinar will be reassigned a value of 1 to 1 parity with the USD. A 25000 dinar note will be worth $25.00. Expecting a 1000% revaluation is dead; holding onto this notion is naive.

Do you feel better now that I mentioned the Dinar in my post? Perhaps I will comment further upon the Dinar in response to your own post.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 5, 2010 3:20 PM


Sara wrote:

On the election..

Maliki set to struggle for second term as Iraq PM
Mar 5, 2010

A year ago, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki looked unstoppable as a dramatic security turnaround and slowly improving services proved a formidable weapon for winning votes in January 2009 local polls.

Now, people are asking if Maliki has turned that weapon on himself, as persistent violence, lingering sectarian tensions and growing impatience for public services and growth sow doubts about the Shi'ite leader's chances of winning a second term.

Whether Maliki's State of Law coalition gets enough votes to lead Iraq's next government -- no party is expected to win an outright majority -- will shape Iraq's future as it seeks to solidify security gains ahead of the U.S. withdrawal and end the political bickering that undermines stability.

His recent campaign speeches returned to well-worn themes: fighting terrorism, stamping out Saddam Hussein's Baath party and nationalism prevailing over post-2003 sectarian conflict.

Dour, formal, and rarely seen cracking a smile, Maliki has more recently added a new theme: seeking to discredit rivals by casting himself as the candidate who gets things done.

But things will not be as easy for Maliki, 59, as in 2006, when he emerged in lengthy government formation talks as a compromise pick who was not well known enough to be objected to.

As incumbent, he is fending off attacks from former partners looking to recapture Shi'ite support and from the secularist Iraqiya List, which may grab the anti-establishment vote.

Even if Maliki can return to the premier's office, his power will depend on the size and nature of the coalition he leads.

RECONCILIATION

There is great debate about how willing Maliki, who was sentenced to death by Saddam in absentia and is said to have a deep hatred for Baathists, is to truly embrace minority Sunnis. Many Sunnis, dominant under Saddam, say the answer is not very.

That perception was strengthened when judges, bowing to apparent government pressure, recently upheld a ban of candidates linked to Baathists, including top Sunni contenders.

"We haven't seen anything but dismissal, marginalisation and revenge, which will bring nothing good to Iraq," said Mohammed Shakir, an engineer in Ramadi, capital of Sunni Anbar province.

Another minority who may oppose another Maliki term are the Kurds, whose aspirations to take control of the disputed oil city of Kirkuk have been thwarted in part by the prime minister.

But mindful perhaps that Kurds may prove kingmakers in post-election manoeuvring, Maliki hinted in a recent interview that the question of Kirkuk's future should be put to Iraq's presidency council, headed by President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd.

While initially sceptical, American officials appear to have become Maliki converts, and his return would likely preclude hiccups in the U.S.-Iraqi relationship as Washington prepares to quickly reduce its troop level this summer and withdraw by 2012.

With neighbouring Iran, there are more questions. Maliki took heat last year for keeping a long silence after Iranian troops seized an oil well Baghdad claims belongs to Iraq.

Maliki, like all Iraqis, has condemned foreign meddling. But he is mindful of Iraq's deep ties with the fellow Shi'ite nation and appears determined to keep the relationship on an even keel.

For foreign investors, continuity may be a positive -- Maliki has lobbied hard to secure global business for Iraq.

But oil executives, fresh from signing major oil deals with the government, signal that none of the potential replacements for Maliki are likely to pose a threat to their work in Iraq.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100305/760/twl-maliki-set-to-struggle-for-second-te.html

-- March 5, 2010 4:16 PM


Sara wrote:

RobN said, Do you feel better now that I mentioned the Dinar in my post?

Yes, I do, thanks. :)

You said, "I am open to discuss the misguided policies of the CBI related to the Dinar. A three zero lop will occur this year as has been stated numerous of times. Once the lop occurs the Dinar will be reassigned a value of 1 to 1 parity with the USD. A 25000 dinar note will be worth $25.00. Expecting a 1000% revaluation is dead; holding onto this notion is naive."

Yours is the worst case scenerio, and what you have stated here is about a 14% upward valuation for anyone holding the Dinar using today's exchange rate (which I just calculated). Why did you sell your Dinar if you know you will (by the end of the year) get a 14% return on your money as the worst case scenerio?

As for the possibility this is not the reality but merely disinformation put out to discourage people from holding Dinar so that the Iraqis do not have to give out a lot of return to those who do hold Dinar.. that is also a possibility and one I cannot discount. If the best case scenerio which we have speculated upon were the real deal, then you would indeed EXPECT that close to such a RV there would be a disinformation campaign to get people to sell their Dinar. It is simple math.. less people who will have to be paid out by the Iraqi government. With the Kuwaiti revaluation which made a few people very rich, I have no doubt that the very authorities involved in that RV would have denied it to your face the very day before they did that revaluation, wouldn't they? Quick review for the recent newbie: After the first Gulf War, the value of the Kuwaiti Dinar plunged. When that country was successfully liberated, and the oil was up and running again, their currency regained it's original value. I remember reading that an investor had spent $10 thousand dollars, on Kuwaiti currency, and a few years later, it was worth $3 million. This is a matter of public record, and can be easily found by googling the history of the Kuwaiti currency.

Since your "worst case scenerio" gives me a far greater return on my money than I can get in many investments (14% is not a shabby return) and the better case scenerio is far more as you have noted (1000%) - I am more than willing to wait and watch to see how this will work out. That this ongoing saga of the Dinar will likely work out THIS YEAR.. and not drag on for more, is seen by the report given on wikipedia which mirrors your view and gives it a timetable, saying, by the end of 2010.. QUOTE:

According to a report on that was shown on 6 February 2010 on Al Iraqiya TV channel, the Central Bank of Iraq considered a plan to redenominate the Iraqi dinar in order to increase the stength level of the Iraqi currency, which will allow people to carry less paper money. Mudhhir Muhammad Salih, a member of a Central Bank advisory panel, told RFI that the plan is to remove the zeros from the currency and phase out the current banknotes late this year. Salih said by the end of 2010 the current banknotes, e.g. 10000 dinars will turn to 10 dinars. This will be while the old banknotes will be gradually removed from circulation. He did not specify when the new notes would be issued. Both will be legal tender in Iraq until the old notes are completely withdrawn.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_dinar#Banknotes

We will soon see if this view is the correct one, and not part of a campaign of disinformation.. If this view is correct, we Dinar investors who have remained in the Dinar will gain "only" 14%. If it is incorrect in this "pessimistic" viewpoint, we will gain up to 1000%. Either way, I still see the Iraqi Dinar as an investment where I and the other Dinar investors on this Board stand to gain.

Sara.

-- March 5, 2010 5:21 PM


Sara wrote:

No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.

“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127953

It is more likely to remain this way, as I said, with Maliki making the profits off of oil directly and paying for things with oil rather than a REAL VALUE for an exchange rate, as has been so for some time. He is ideologically opposed to RVing and if he gets in, there will be no RV of the Dinar or prosperity for the PEOPLE of Iraq.

Sara.

-- March 5, 2010 10:05 PM


NEIL wrote:

Taking note of all the misdeeds and secretive actions taken by previous administrations, I find no fault with any President who has the best interest of the USA at heart. There is no question in my mind that Reagan's every action was to put the USA in a better position. The first Bush, I do not question his motivations at all, he was kind-hearted and left Iraq to soon with the Iraqi people expecting more from us.

I think Clinton wanted the USA to be succcessful and make good decisions but primarily so that he would look good. The second Bush was totally patriotic but wanted to avenge his fathers' failure to free the Iraqi people so he was hell-bent on toppling the Saddam regime. Now getting to Obama, I do not believe that his top priority is the welfare of the USA, I believe that he has some strange agenda such as social equality or global government or universal harmony-who knows?

I stated the above to say this, I will go along with most any devious or diabolical plan by our government so long as I believe that their sole purpose is help the USA.
I would go along with a war with Iraq with the sole purpose to get their oil, or Iran or Kuwait so long as the action was to insure the survival of America. We became great when everyone was ruthless and determined to keep America on top when dealing with other countries.

I have to agree with much of what RobN says about the direction this country is headed in but I do not think that our actions are that of a nation trying to take something like oil from some other nations but that we are a bunch of good-hearted dumb asses who want to help every other country with borrowed money. This country is headed down the drain in a sea of red ink and is still trying to borrow more to influence some other country. We have got wise up.

-- March 5, 2010 10:36 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara and all,

This is a piece of info I got today regarding Malaki versus Allawi.

I talked to day with an Iraqi native, he is working for the US military as a translator.

My question to him was what he thought of the chances of the current PM Malaki to stay, or the one that is knocking on the door, Allawi to replace Malaki.

In his opinion, Malaki is not popular at all in Iraq, he is not a "strong man", but a whealer and dealer. Malaki had once a certain respect and following but in the Iraqi mans strong opinion, he thinks Malakis days are numbered, as Allawi is far more popular with the Iraq population.

Allawi was PM during the early days when he had to ask permission for everything from the US, when the country was still under occupation. Still Allawi was able to get things done that Malaki have failed to do.

The man I met today knows where the pendulum is right now, and as far as he is concerned, Malakis chances for political survival is very slim.

Reportedly Allawi's popularity is on a broad base, and are crossing Kurds, Shiite an Sunni lines.

We will see, upsets have been made in numerous other elections, so we will not know until the score is settled.

I just thought of sharing this particular part of my discussion I had with this Iraq man today, with you all.

-- March 6, 2010 5:14 AM


Sara wrote:

Roger - THANK YOU!! That is GREAT news, so far as I am concerned. With the vote "split" by so many people running, the only concern I have had is if the split will cause a lot to vote machine gun fashion - a smattering of votes at each of the runners - so that Maliki, as the incumbent and with name recognition, will get in. But your note gives me hope the Iraqis see it as a fight between the two - Allawi (who will ALLOW the Iraqis prosperity, I hope.. and Dinar RV) and Maliki (who will not). If this is the view they truly have and the Iraqi people go to the polls not wishing to throw away their vote, they will vote for one or the other of these two. Hopefully it means Allawi will win, with all the positive news that will mean for Iraqi prosperity and Dinar RV. :)

Neil - I agree. It is almost like people expect the US to be so caring and Christian for other nations.. to the neglecting of her own interests. And if she does take her own interests in hand, they accuse the US of being "arrogant" and a "bully" or facist. It is like the world thinks the US should graciously give all the borrowed money in the world to others, and not care they are giving away their own ability to stay afloat financially or prosper. Crazy. As for the past Presidents, as you say, I agree that so long as the US was first in their hearts and agenda, they did not do too badly for the nation.. in spite of their differing human failings. It is apparent that God kept the nation safe from George Washington to George W. Bush.. but this is something new - a hopey changey CHANGE which is not for the better and 180 degrees away from that tradition of "US first." That policy change of direction spells disaster for the people of America and unless the ship can be righted it will sink the US like the Titanic from fiscal irresponsibility and neglect of taking care of the nation on so many fronts which a caring person for America would naturally and normally do.

Case in point:

The Modest Failure of Obama's Iran Policy
Judah Grunstein | Bio | 05 Mar 2010

As the push for a new round of sanctions against Iran falters, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the Obama administration's game plan on Iran policy was long on tactics and short on strategy. We've heard a bit about how U.N sanctions are up against a "bad UNSC," which currently includes Brazil, Turkey and Lebanon as non-permanent members. But that should come as no surprise, and the same goes for those three countries' predictable resistance to getting vocally on board for stiff sanctions.

Now comes word that the administration is trying to carve out an exemption for China in unilateral U.S. sanctions making their way through Congress. Japan and South Korea, on the other hand get no such special attention, with the inescapable message being that friendship and solidarity don't pay quite as well as obstructionism and a pile of U.S. debt.

This is a consequence of the administration's failure of nerve -- or lack of imagination -- at the outset, when either a bold engagement with Iran or a bold engagement with Russia would have more likely delivered better long-term strategic results. Instead, we saw a tepid outstretched hand combined with a tepid reset, neither of which seems to have paid off. Instead of a shift in the underlying strategic logic of how to contain Iran's nuclear ambitions, the Obama administration essentially tried to pass off a "new & improved" version of the Bush administration's carrot and stick approach, or what Dennis Ross called "better carrot & better stick."

Admittedly, the domestic politics of true engagement on either front would have been costly for President Barack Obama. There's also no guarantee that either would have delivered better results, especially in light of Iran's post-election turmoil. And as I have argued previously, even the administration's lukewarm Iran engagement has made it clear that it is now the Iranians who are unwilling to take yes for an answer. But that's little consolation if it comes up short of the desired strategic payoff.

As Bobby Z put it, "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all." In trying to avoid a spectacular failure, Obama has come away with a modest one instead.

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/blog/show/5225

In trying to avoid a spectacular failure, Obama has come away with a modest one instead.

When it was US interests first.. seen as arrogant or not, America won. When it is "a tepid outstretched hand" all America gets is a modest failure. America First as a policy worked, this has not. I hope America takes note of it for the future and has the guts to choose to win instead of "lose for compassion's sake".. finally getting the true message and choosing to take the accusation of being the "arrogant American" who works in America's best interests first, again. You cannot please all of the people all of the time, so I hope America will choose to please America and its interests first in the future, for America's sake. I hope America takes note and makes up its collective mind to be willing to take that ridicule and do the hard thing for America's sake - for a double-minded nation, like a double-minded man, is UNSTABLE in all its ways. (James 1:8)

Sara.

-- March 6, 2010 6:34 AM


Dean wrote:

It does appear CBI intends to redenominate the dinar by dropping three 000's by the end of 2010.

This is up on the XE.com website:

The Central Bank of Iraq has announced their plans to redenominate the Iraqi Dinar to ease cash transactions. By the end of 2010, they intend to drop three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes. It should be noted that the actual value of the dinar will remain unchanged. That means that 1,000 IQD (pre-redenomination) and 1 dinar (post-redenomination) will both be worth the same amount in US Dollars. As stated by the Central Bank of Iraq, their mandate is to "ensure domestic price stability and foster a stable competitive market based financial system." For more information about the redenomination, read "Iraq plans to slice three zeros off currency notes."

http://www.xe.com/currency/iqd-iraqi-dinar

I guess this means I have a lot of Dinars that I'm going to need to exchange for the new denominations when they come out? If this is the case, how do I do this?
Anybody know?


-- March 7, 2010 12:36 AM


Sara wrote:

Talabani says asked to be Iraq president again

SULAIMANIYAH, Mar 07, 2010 (AFP) - Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Sunday after casting his ballot in the country's general election that he had been asked by several blocs to continue on in the post.

"I have been asked by many many Iraqi groups and lists to re-candidate myself," he told reporters in the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah, 270 kilometres (170 miles) north of Baghdad.

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidANA20100307T052133ZHXC09/TalabanisaysaskedtobeIraqpresidentagain

-- March 7, 2010 6:57 AM


Sara wrote:

Dean;

They just denied that old information you just quoted. As of so March 3rd they say that is not so.. that is old info you quoted.

---

No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.

“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127953

-- March 7, 2010 7:01 AM


Sara wrote:

Statement by Dr. Ayad Allawi, former Prime Minister of Iraq and Leader of the Iraqiya List, at the close of polling for the Iraq
BAGHDAD, March 7, 2010 /PRNewswire/ --

"The Iraqi people have spoken, and it is vital for our country's future that the integrity of the democratic process is respected. As the votes are counted, the great number of Iraqis who risked their safety to take part in these elections are watching."

http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/news/story.aspx?id=10924330

-- March 7, 2010 3:14 PM


Sara wrote:

Gates: Surprisingly little violence in Iraq vote
AP - Sun Mar 7th, 2010

ABOARD A U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT - U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he sees surprisingly little violence associated with the Iraq elections and that security improvements have forced al Qaida-linked militants to change tactics.

Gates told reporters Sunday that he's been briefed on the voting by the top U.S. general in Iraq , Ray Odierno (oh-dee-EHR'-noh). He said turnout is as high or higher than expectations.

He said, "All in all, a good day for the Iraqis and for all of us."

Gates said he was told about "a handful" of militant attacks that caused injuries. But Gates said there's been no confirmed mortar or indirect fire attacks on Baghdad. He said that in the South, in eight of nine provinces there were no security incidents at all during the voting.

http://us.new.m.yahoo.com/w/ynews/article/politics/1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fxml.news.yahoo.com%2Fus%2Fnews%2Frss%2Frichstoryrss.html%3Fu%3D%2Fap%2F20100307%2Fap_on_re_us%2Fgates_iraq&.ts=1267991524&.intl=us&.lang=en&.ysid=4K5euSHlZO56nBYpj_HIFA--

-- March 7, 2010 3:16 PM


Sara wrote:

Polls close in Iraq after deadly day
Ben Knight, Kim Landers and staff, ABC March 8, 2010

Polls have closed in the Iraqi elections, after an election day that saw 35 people killed by insurgents.

Insurgents had threatened to do all they could to disrupt this election.

There were long queues of voters at polling stations in a number of cities.

Many voters said they were happy to be taking part and hoped their country would soon leave the religious violence of the past permanently behind.

As the party leaders voted, there was no clear front runner to win.

Forming a new government could take weeks, or months, of negotiations.

But there is a positive mood in Iraq and a sense that this vote was a repudiation of the religious militants who almost destroyed the country after the last parliamentary election four years ago.

It was Iraq's second national election since the US led invasion in 2003.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/australian-news/6900733/polls-close-in-iraq-after-deadly-day/

-- March 7, 2010 3:23 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq Election: World leaders praise bravery of Iraqi voters after election
Iraqis defied bombings and a wave of mortar attacks to complete the most fiercely competitive election in the nation's history.
By Richard Spencer in Baghdad
Published: 07 Mar 2010

Polling stations reported a strong turnout of voters on Sunday despite 38 deaths across the country and a security presence which included 200,000 police and soldiers in the capital alone.

Voters from across the Sunni-Shia sectarian divide said the level of violence was far lower than in the last general election, in 2005.

"We are Iraqis. We have had it much worse than this," said Kamal Fadil, in charge of a polling station in Salhiya, in central Baghdad, to the backdrop of explosions in either direction.

"I care more about changing the country than about this intimidation," said Mahir Jamil, 49, outside a station in the al-Mansur neighbourhood, a few yards from where a mortar had landed shortly before.

Once mixed, al-Mansur is now almost entirely Sunni following a wave of ethnic cleansing led by al-Qaeda fighters, the evidence of which is still visible in the walls pock-marked by bullets.

There are few polls and no-one expects any of the four principal blocks to win a clear-cut victory.

Western diplomats applauded the conduct of the campaign, with television stations devoting hours to debates and interviews with candidates and the streets plastered with posters.

One diplomat said it was a mistake to assume the worst would happen. "In the last three years, the pessimists have always been proved wrong," he said. "In a week's time, there is a good chance we will have taken a big step forward."

Rival contenders for power could yet cry foul. The anti-sectarian opposition leader Ayad Allawi claims that he lost the last election because of ballot stuffing and vote rigging.

Another factor muddying the outcome is the mixed fortunes of the third main contender - an alliance of Shia parties grouping that comprised Islamists with strong ties to Iran and the fiercely anti-American Sadrists, whose Mahdi militia have fought vicious sectarian and anti-western battles.

The campaign drew a diverse range of candidates. The most attention-grabbing have been those of the many women candidates, in many cases unveiled. One prompted an onlooker to joke that he knew the candidate and she was ten years older when the picture was taken. He said: "See - these politicians are already lying to us."

A provisional result is due to be declared by the end of the week, but the haggling to form a coalition is likely to last until at least the summer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393350/Iraq-Election-World-leaders-praise-bravery-of-Iraqi-voters-after-election.html

-- March 7, 2010 3:46 PM


Sara wrote:

Vote count begins in Iraq election
Mar, 07, 2010 Aljazeera.net (Qatar)

Election officials in Iraq have begun counting the votes following the country's second full parliamentary election since the 2003 US-led invasion.

Authorities imposed a curfew in the capital, Baghdad, after the polls closed on Sunday to ensure the safe transportation of the ballots from election centres to the election commission's main counting offices.

Millions of people turned out to cast their ballots across the country, choosing from more than 6,000 candidates from 86 political groups looking to gain seats in the 325-member assembly.

Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna, reporting from Baghdad, said the series of mortar attacks and blasts from improvised explosive devices overshadowed the start of voting.

"The apparent target were polling stations though none was directly damaged in any of the attacks. After that very dangerous start, voting proceeded fairly smoothly," he said.

"At this point it's still unclear exactly how large the turnout was, but reports from most areas indicate that the turnout was very satisfactory as far as those who want to see a successful poll process go are concerned."

Elsewhere, Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, reporting from Sulaymaniyah, said "Today we are seeing a lot of Arabs turning up at the polling stations who want to be part of the political process, from which they have been away for many years, which has weakened them and given Kurds more clout in the Iraqi parliament."

The election was supervised by as many as 120 international monitors, with a number of foreign embassies providing staff to act as observers.

The European Union, France, the UK and the US all congratulated the people of Iraq after the vote.

Barack Obama, the US president, also commended voters and Iraqi security forces for their efforts to participate in the election despite the violence.

Voters were choosing between a broad range of parties and coalitions and no bloc is expected to win a majority.

After the last national election in 2005, it took the various political parties about five months to agree on a prime minister and for a cabinet to be approved.

Our correspondent, Mike Hanna, said: "In the past, people have tended to vote along sectarian lines. But now, no governing coalition can come to power unless it has the widest possible breadth of support.

"So political parties and coalitions have been fighting a campaign not on sectarian issues, but on the wider issues of Iraqi nationalism."

The Iraqi electoral commission is to announce preliminary results on March 10-11, based on votes from about 30 per cent of the polling stations.

The supreme court would then certify the poll results, after hearing appeals, within about a month of the election.

http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10399459

-- March 7, 2010 3:57 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq Election: The main parties
The major coalitions in the Iraq elections range from narrow religious groups to broad cross-sectarian coalitions.
by Richard Spencer in Baghdad
Published: 07 Mar 2010

State of Law: Led by Nuri al-Maliki, the prime minister. The grouping was formed when Mr Maliki decided to rule without the support of the more radical Islamist parts of his Shia Muslim coalition.

It now claims to be cross-sectarian, with support from some Sunni tribal leaders, but is still reliant on its massive Shia base in the south.

Iraqiya: Led by Ayad Allawi, Iraq's former leader.

Mr Allawi is an English-speaking Shia with good ties in the Sunni Arab world. Popular with both the urban, educated classes, Mr Allawi represents the ideal that politics can be cross sectarian. He has strong from Sunnis and people who back a secular state. His fierce criticism of Mr Maliki means they are unlikely to be able to form a government together.

Iraqi National Alliance: A wide-ranging religious front closely tied to Iran.

The Shia grouping is dominated by Islamic Supreme Conference of Iraq (ISCI) and Sadrists, who are loyal to radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. ISCI, was once dominant in the faction but has lost popularity due to perceived closeness to Iran. If Sadrists do well, the rump ISCI could defect to support Mr Allawi despite differences over the role of religion in Iraqi state.

Unity Coalition: Led by Jawad al-Bolani, the interior minister.

Another cross-sectarian grouping, now largely a vehicle for Mr Bolani. Like Mr Allawi, he is a Shia presiding over a coalition that has support from Sunnis. It is unlikely to win a large number of seats but will be a useful coalition partner.

Kurdistan Alliance: Led by Massoud Barzani.

The autonomous region of Kurdistan has its own politics, dominated by the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Their role after the election is simple - to fight for as many concessions over boundaries and oil concessions as possible from whichever party seeks to gain power with their help. It is likely to secure the election of President Jalal Talabani for a second term.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393315/Iraq-Election-The-main-parties.html

-- March 7, 2010 4:07 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq Election: Democracy takes root in the Middle East
by Damien McElroy, Foreign Affairs Correspondent
Published: 07 Mar 2010

If Iraq's second democratic general election was viewed on its merits, it would be seen as an astonishing and important event.

Nobody in Iraq would have voted yesterday if Saddam Hussein's regime or one led by his odious sons, was still in power.

The clamourous competition of a handful of electoral blocs that boast a nationwide following would not be possible in a Baath Party dictatorship.

With a successful election it is almost certain that American troops will leave ahead of schedule.

The voting also appeared to have avoided its greatest potential pitfall as observers reported much diminished Iranian efforts to rig the voting.

Manipulation of the outcome by Tehran and its allies remains a real danger that will only be apparent after the results are known at the end of the week.

No matter who finishes first, the next government will have to include Iran's allies as a coalition partner. There is no putative combination of parties that would result in Tehran being driven into the cold.

But Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two regional powers that border Iraq, have a short-term interest in a stable buffer zone.

In this sense it does not matter which of the competing factions wins. Iraqi politicians have demonstrated their ability to work across ideological, sectarian and ethnic lines for six years.

The political scene is highly fractured but it does function. That too is a virtue when there are many warnings that democratic gains could be reversed by the rise of a future strongman.

Therefore the most likely outcome is the advent of a mature democracy in a region that is crippled by a dozen shades of dictatorship.

Iraqis voted in huge numbers yesterday to an accompanying drumbeat of bombs and bullets. The world should acknowledge the momentuous impact of that singularly impressive development.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7393354/Iraq-Election-Democracy-takes-root-in-the-Middle-East.html

-- March 7, 2010 4:20 PM


Sara wrote:

I post this to contrast with the brave 38 Iraqis killed during the Iraqi elections:

===

60 Islamists Killed as Rival Terror Gangs Battle in Afghanistan
Sunday, March 7, 2010, 12:59 PM
Jim Hoft

Pity.
Up to 60 Islamists were killed today in Afghanistan as rival militant groups, the Taliban and Hesb-i-Islami, battled in northern Afghanistan.
The fighting in Baghlan province erupted on Saturday morning. (BBC)
The Pakistani Nation reported:

Up to 60 militants and 19 civilians may have been killed in bloody clashes between rival Islamist militant groups in northern Afghanistan, a police official said Sunday. The fighting between Taliban rebels and militants loyal to the Hezb-i-Islami insurgent group erupted early Saturday in Baghlan province where both factions are active, said provincial police chief Mohammad Kabir Andarabi. Citing local sources in the region, police officials said the battles continued on Sunday in the Jangal Bagh area. The interior ministry on Saturday confirmed the clashes, but was not able to give casualty figures. “We have intelligence reports that 60 fighters — 40 (from) Hezb-i-Islami and 20 Taliban — have died so far. Our reports indicate that up to 19 civilians were also killed,” Andarabi told a foreign news agency. The Taliban are the main militant group behind an increasingly deadly insurgency aimed at toppling the Western-backed government of President Hamid Karzai and forcing out about 121,000 US and NATO troops stationed in Afghanistan.

--

This is what is called a “win-win” situation.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/60-islamists-killed-as-rival-terror-gangs-battle-in-afghanistan/

-- March 7, 2010 4:39 PM


Roger wrote:

The Iraqi elcetion will be very interesting in that sense that the Iraqis have clearly left the religious parties and swung over to political parties.

However, as this is a development, and at the same time a first, exactly how the political scene will turn out is an unknown until the ballots are counted.

It's like taking a photo with a camera that uses film, not seeing what you took a photo of, and you go into the darkroom and develop the film, and will be surprised at what emerged on the negative.

The Iraqis voted, but what did they vote on???

Speculations about future political possibilities in Iraq must be base on facts, and until the film is developed we can only guess at best.

A very good indicator is the reported voting participation, it seems to be very high, meaning that this is something that concerns the Iraqi citizen and he take a deep interest and involvement in the governing of his country.

That alone is a victory for Iraq.

All this is good for the Iraqi stabilization, it did prove itself during the voting process.

It only take a small handfull of insurgent to do the damage they did, very small consiering that most of the voting districts did not have any probelms at all.

The perspective here is a small handful of insurgents managed to get SOME headlines, but it seems like even the MSM have acknowledged the fact that this is very minor, and in fac, it didn't change anything, the population are very used to hear explosons, seeing tracers, and hear gunfire, so they just stood above all that and voted anyway.

So the bottom line is a small handful, versus a whole nation of 27 million people. The people won.

This election will have pretty big ramification of the future development of Iraq, the population wants real and tangeable change, and of tha is what they voed for , then they will get change. This will of course affect Iraq as a whole, including the currency.

Re: Afghanistan... two insurgent groups are having a battle with each other, ...the score, 60 terrorists killed.....

I am absolutely not against it, .......in fact I approve.

-- March 7, 2010 8:46 PM


Roger wrote:

FIAT CURRENCYS ARE FAILED CURRENCIES.

Fiat currencies, a currency in where the value is pre-determined by a Central bank a Monarch or Caesar himself.

Old time currencies and currencies in either hard controlled countries, or in undeveloped countries are in many cases FIAT currencies.

Rome had it, the early Americas had it, long before we had our revoution, and the most blatant failure is the German Weimar republic in the years follwing WW1.

A free floating currency, have ONE value, and it is only as valuable as someone else think it is worth when buying or selling the currency.

Therefore a free floating currency have true exchange value.

A FIAT currency is prone to failure of the very reason that the currency have one value but a political force is setting another value. One "offical value, and one true value.

Thise two values are sometimes very far apart, Chinas currency is much stronger than the artificial value, so the Chinese can't even afford to buy many of the products they produce themselves. We have roughly the same scenario with the Iraqi Dinar.

The weaknes with FIAT currency is not that it loses its value, it can't it is set,( so is the thinking anyway, but it will lose it's value in a very intricate way) but as a set and fixed currency can be printed in as much as the print can manage to print out, and still have the same value,....but.... inflation will kick in instead.

It's easy to understand the forces by examining the Weimar republics currency. Fixed currency, ok that sounds good, meaning it will not go down in value ( thats the thinking) . Inflation kicks in, and you can't buy what you want or need, so pressure on increasing wages in tune with increased inflation will then be the next step. That will not decrease inflation, so prices are still racing out of reach, so more wages, more ( compensation packages as Obama would put it), more money is pushed on the market, the money prints are spinning and the downward wheel is quickly spiraling
out of control.

It is the normal natural economic forces that adjusts, to a forceful set currency.

If the money is worth the same, but the prices are skyrocketing, or if prices stay the same, but the money is losing value is merely a matter of viewpoint. It is the same force that is acting upon the currency.

Iraq is experencing a high inflation, and it is a direct effect of a FIAT currrency. Now, it could be stemmed and controlled somewhat by high base interest rate, they have a decent handle on it, but the cure is not in putting a band aid on it.

The ultimate scenario for the Dinar would be a free floating currency.

The second best solution , would the powers in charge decide to continue to control the exchange rate, would be to revalue the Iraqi Dinar and hope it will be spot on, or very cose in proximity to it's real value.

-- March 8, 2010 5:36 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

What was the point of this previous post. It appears your presuppisition that fiat currency cannot loose value is wrong. All fiat currencies looses value; especially when governments (like the U.S.) borrow excessive amounts of money from abroad, finance imperalistic wars spending the trillion of dollar borrowed from Asia, concurrent deficit spending, and monetizing debt by expanding the money supply. Our urrent American Dollar is worth a paltry $.04. Inflation is the loss of purchasing power by the people. The citizenry uses these devalued dollars to buy higher priced milk, eggs, and beef. The grocery bill continues to increase with less and less items in the bag.

Iraq is following the same policies as our Federal Reserve assuming debt with an ever increasing money supply; which results in the loss of purchasing power for the Iraqi people. If Iraq contracts the money supply through a zero lop and does not access the money borrowed from the IMF then I would concede the possibility of Iraq having a healthy currency. Only through a 3 zero lop can Iraq sufficiently reign in the money supply. If 25000 dinar note becomes a 25 dinar note 1 to 1 parity to the dollar is likely; making the 25 dinar note equal to $25.00 usd.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 8, 2010 11:00 AM


Paul wrote:

I”ve got a question on this revaluation. Say I’ve got 10 – 25,000 dinar notes equaling 250,000 dinars. According to this revaluation, when I go to exchange my dinars, would they give me back 250,000 dinars worth of 25 dinar notes or will they give me back 10 – 25 dinar notes?

-- March 8, 2010 1:55 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

You read each three words, didn't understand it, and what you didnt unerstand you filled in with your own interpretation of what you think I said here, and you are saying that I didn't say something that I said.

You're not too bright, and honestly I think you are living a life dependant on some chemical of some sort, may it be prescribed pills, alcohol or whatever.

Why don't you go and do something you really do understand instead.

If you are not doing Dinars, sold out, and still here, your only contribution will be to try to prove yourself right.

Your presence means only a negative to the Dinar issue.

If you can make rain on our parade, you gladly do.

I honestly believe that if you can make rain on anyone elses parade too, you gladly do that also.

If you would call around and invite guests to a spontaneous party, that you will hold, how many people can you call???

You don't have many friends, isn't it so?

This blogsite is a poor substitute for a trashed social life Rob N.

-- March 8, 2010 8:00 PM


Roger wrote:

Paul,

You are describing a possible zero lop scenario, where you will get back a 25 Dinar bill for evry 25000 Dinar bill you now posess.

That is not an RV, and RV is short for revaluation and has nothing to do with changing face of the currency.

Revaluation is the phenomenon in where an exchange value is changed to a higher value.

For example, 100 Credits is the same as 1 Dollar. Now we revalue the Credits to 1 Credit is equal to 1 Dollar.

Devaluation would then ( of course) be the opposite, if you have a Credit valued the same as a Dollar, and you now decide to make the Credit have a value of only 100 Credits to 1 Dollar you have now devalued the Credit.

Usually devaluation is a slower natural process.

Zero lop, is not a revaluation or a devaluation, the currency value stays the same, except that a face change is taking place, in where a bigger number of a curency is lumped together into one unit.

This is a system that have been used in many currencies that have a lot of units in their currency, if you need three million Credits to buy a loaf of bread, you need to haul so much paper with you that it becomes impractical, so if we would then do a zero lop and take off all the zeros, we could exchange the 3 million credits, with a new bill that we can call "The New Credit" .

You would in this case shave off six zeroes, and you will now have three Credits to pay for your loaf of bread instead.

Still there is no difference in exchange rate betwen 3 million Credits or 3 "New Credits" , same thing, different wrapping.

Now,.... a part revaluaton, and part zero lop could of course take place at the same time.

An example of that would be if for example we have our famous Credits, they are valued to 100 Credits to 1 Dollar.

We could then print up a new currency, in where we have shaved off ONE zero, and exchange the new Credits for the old one, for every TEN old Credits, you get ONE new credit.

As we stand right now after this transaction, we have an exchange value of 10 Credits for every Dollar you would exchange.

Ok if we at the same time as we exchange the old Credit for the New Credit , we simply declare that the exchange value of the New Credit is 1 to 1 with the Dollar.

In this example we revalued the currency 10 times.

When it comes to the Dinar.....who knows what way it will go, what we do know though, is that the currency (Iraqi Dinar) is almost criminaly undervalued, and the pressure to change it is increasing the more Iraq is developing.

Iraq is a specially interesting curcumstance, where holding Dinars have a potential to either pay off somewhat, (Zero lop, and a small Revaluation) or the other extreme, pay off handsomely, (Full revaluation.)

Even if there will be a compromize between the two extreme scenarios, it will be a very good payoff.

It is like a lottery ticket where the odds are much better than Lotto, because if anyone decides to back out of it, and sell out, you will get your money back.

Ad onto the whole scenario a whole culture of dealers trying to push more Dinars, rumormongers, bashers, pessimists, and people that take it as a religion that it will zero lop, trying to get you into "their camp", and sell out.

Bashers sitting on the sideline, not involved with Dinars, ( we've got one here on this blog, Rob N) that have nothing else to do, other than trying to make you see the hopelesness in the Dinar situation.

You have a lot of people that spend a lot of time, on the internet, sharing news, or other research on the subject, there are a few "Dinarholics" that have got at least a Ph D's worth of education in the subject by now.

Don't panic when you hear any explosive news, that wants you to sell off.

Just snug up close to your open fire, and enjoy your favorite brandy, and have no hurry, and the Dinar will eventually resolve into something you will really like.

-- March 8, 2010 8:44 PM


4moreyears wrote:

In the first gulf war, when the coalition of the willing kicked Saddam out of Kuwait, and that country stabilized, it still took 4 years before the economy was rebuilt and the the oil started flowing big time and they revalued their Kuwaiti dinar. Iraq is just getting stable now, so if you people think the Iraqi Dinar will RV tomorow you all are dreaming. Hate to rain on your parade but why should a country that is still a mess and zero economy have an expensive currency?

-- March 9, 2010 1:38 AM


Roger wrote:

4moreyears

Well it was a bit of generality,...."if you people think".

So with other words, everybody thinks in one way, but you are the only one that thinks in another way.

The common guess when it will happen is about as spread out as a shotgun pattern 150 yards away.

Currencys are never expensive, the only thing that is cheap or expensive is what you buy with them.

The currency is undervalued, that's what this is about.

Iraq have come very far from its former clusterf..k, or true mess if you would, and a "zero economy"... well, you will have a lot of good arguments from a lot of people that this is not a stagnant place. The dynamics of change has gone through a lot of phases, in most all areas of life over there.

Iraq with it's culture have it's own idiosynchrasys, so don't expect our way of life there, but in it's own culture, and way of doing things, they have come far.

In order to get to the point where they will RV, they have to go through whatever level they are now.

If this is a good or bad level, we can have as much opinions abot that as we like, but it is a meaningless discussion, because the Iraqis will determine when an RV will happen, based on their own viewpoint of where they are at the time.

They may se it differently and do it in a couple of hours....or a few years from now...who knows, I think though that the advancment in progress they have made, will in the Iraqis eyes, be closer to the RV than many pessimists here think.

It's easy to sit an ocean away and kick out a generality, -"those people over there will never...." and so on.

The Iraqis have lived their own past, you don't, so they know where they have been, and where they are now, and that difference is much greater for them, than it is for you.

Much will also hang on the outcome of this election.

Something we are all curious about, so far we have only reports of the elections succesful conclution, and that they will tally the ballots, but we have no clear indication of how the up and coming government will look.

We have not even a report of, in what direction the results will be leaning towards.

Wait, roll the thumbs.


-- March 9, 2010 4:54 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq Postpones Announcing Initial Election Results
By VOA News 03/09/10

Iraq’s election commission has postponed announcing initial results from Sunday’s parliamentary election because it says it has not finished counting enough votes.

A spokesman for Iraq’s Independent High Electoral Commission said Tuesday they would make an announcement once they had tabulated 30 percent of the votes. Election officials say they should reach that threshold to present the initial results on Wednesday or Thursday.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/09/iraq-postpones-announcing-initial-election-results/

-- March 9, 2010 3:07 PM


Rob N. wrote:

4moreyears,

The Iraqi Dinar will not revalue instead it will lop a 25000 note will be lopped to a 25 dinar note. The GoI and the CBI will eventually bring the Dinar 1 to 1 parity with the usd making the 25 dinar note worth $25.00 usd. It is naive by many on this board and those invested in the Dinar that it will revalue making the 25000 dinar note worth $25,000 usd.

Officials from the CBI have repeatedly stated their intent to lop the notes. It is only through a lop can the CBI address Iraq's excessive monetary supply. I would suggest dumping those dinars immediately. Nothing to see here.

-- March 9, 2010 9:27 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

You can't read can you?

Go back 15 - 16 blogs and read the blog Sara posted about zero lop.

You're just regurgitating the same shit over and over again.

-- March 9, 2010 9:52 PM


Sara wrote:

Here it is, as Roger mentioned.. worth reposting.

Sara wrote:

Dean;

They just denied that old information you just quoted. As of so March 3rd they say that is not so.. that is old info you quoted.

---

No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.

“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127953

-- March 10, 2010 12:06 AM


Anonymous wrote:

Roger, don't pick on the handicapped.

-- March 10, 2010 12:46 AM


Sara wrote:

EDITORIAL: Inspiration, vindication as democratic Iraq tallies votes
Mar, 09, 2010 04:51 PM - Daily Oklahoman (Oklahoma City)

Mar. 9--Final official results in Iraq's parliamentary elections won't be known for days, but the real winners are the Iraqi people and the young democracy endorsed by their votes Sunday.

Election officials said 62 percent of the country's eligible voters cast ballots amid a smattering of explosions that killed at least 38 in Baghdad. Even so, a number of reports said Iraqis shrugged off insurgent attempts to spoil the election, turning out in numbers greater than in provisional voting last year.

"The Iraqi people have seen much worse than this," Ibtihal Khaled told The Wall Street Journal in Baghdad. "A few bombs won't keep them away from the polls." Another woman, 76, told The Washington Post: "This is our right. We came to take it." Inspiring, to say the least.

Also confirming -- confirming the vision a few had for what might be possible in a post-Saddam Iraq.

President George W. Bush made many mistakes with the war and building a new regime. But he was right not to give up when prospects looked bleak, when critics said retreat from Iraq was the only viable option.

When Bush surged U.S. troops into Iraq in 2007 to stabilize the country, he was opposed by then-Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden, now the chief political beneficiaries of Iraq's progress. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the war was lost just weeks into that campaign. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi regularly called for America's withdrawal.

All of them were wrong; their lack of faith in the U.S. military, the Iraqi people and the exceptionalism of democracy, in its transforming power, was exposed.

That power is at work in Iraq, and while there's still far to go, the change is remarkable. Iraqi blogger Nibras Kazimi wrote that the greatest thing about Sunday's voting was "how normal it felt; elections have become a ho-hum, commonplace occurrence."

A democratic Iraq now counts its votes. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and former interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi were expected to be in a tight race that featured full Sunni participation. No one group was expected to win a majority in parliament.

The next test will be sorting out a governing coalition and the response of Sunday's losers. All of this will play out with U.S. combat troops schedule. Then the Iraqi people and their government surely will face a final exam: standing on their own.

With all that the Iraqis have been through to this point, it would hard to bet against them.

http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10403875

-- March 10, 2010 1:10 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq Holds Largest Democratic Election in History
Sunday, March 7, 2010, 9:51 AM
Jim Hoft

Thank you, George W. Bush. Thank you, US Military. Thank you, Republicans in Congress.

PIC: Iraqi men wave thir national flag as they ride at the back of a truck during an election campaign rally in Baghdad. Iraq’s politicians, fearing that voters have wearied of speech-making that often proves to be little more than hot air, have hired a slew of singers to woo them. (AFP/Ahmad al-Rubaye)

Iraq just held its largest democratic election in history today.
Aswat Aliraq reported:

Voting centers closed their doors at 05:00 p.m. on Sunday, capping the largest election ever in the history of Iraq, where nearly 19 million voters from the nation’s 18 provinces picked their favorites amongst 6200 candidates to occupy the new parliament’s 325 seats.

Nearly 10,000 voting centers comprising 52,000 stations closed their doors amidst acts of violence that claimed the lives of more than 24 Iraqis and wounded 10 others who have been casting their votes since 07:00 a.m. today (March 7).

The new parliament is comprised of 325 seats: 68 from Baghdad, 31 from Ninewa, 24 Basra, 18 Thi-Qar, 17 Sulaimaniya, 16 Babel, 14 Arbil, 14 Anbar, 13 Diala and 12 seats for each of Kirkuk, Salah al-Din and Najaf and 11 for Wassit and Diwaniya while Missan, Duhuk, Karbala and Missan will get 10 seats and Muthanna only 7.

==

Iraqi Police officers in Tikrit show their ink-stained index fingers after an early-voting session for election support personnel, March 4, 2010. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Petty Officer Michael Heckman)

Comments:

1) Reaganite Republican

If we had listened to Biden and Obama in 2006, Iraq would be an Al Qaida caliphate by now.

Of course, Iraqi freedom has stoked the flames of democracy in Iran, too… just like George W Bush told you it would.

2) bg

ht Winston in another thread..

A Vote of Thanks

[Democracy has transformed most Iraqis from people who either voted scared or were apathetic to Saddam’s fake election, into people who are driven to vote by a sense of ownership of their country.

Iraqis realize that their democracy is not the best, but they also know that practice makes perfect.

Since 2002 Iraqi elections have been evolving. While still not perfect, democracy is striking root.

Meanwhile, what Iraqis like me have learned is that transformation from autocracy to democracy would not have been possible without the 4,700 brave American and allied servicemen and women who lost their lives, and the many others who were wounded, for the sake of Iraq’s freedom.

Families of these heroes should know that many of us are grateful to their sons and daughters, and to the United States and its allies at large, even if they do not hear thank you often from Iraq or its leaders.

It is on days like Sunday that these sacrifices
most strongly comes to Iraqi minds.]

It Has Always Been The Soldier

It is the soldier,
not the President who gives us democracy.

It is the soldier,
not the Congress who takes care of us.

It is the soldier,
not the Reporter who has given us Freedom of Press.

It is the soldier,
not the Poet who has given us Freedom of Speech.

It is the soldier,
not the campus [community] Organizer who
has given us the Freedom to Demonstrate.

It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag;
who serves beneath the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
that allows the protester to burn the flag.

~ Father Dennis O’Brien, US Marine Corp. Chaplain

Thank You GWB!

Thank You US/COTW!

God Bless Soldiers everywhere for putting THEIR
lives on the line to protect us ALL from terrorism!

==

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/iraq-holds-largest-democratic-election-in-history/

-- March 10, 2010 2:02 AM


Sara wrote:

Was Bush (indirectly) right about Iraq?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010
TWN, The China Post news staff

It's a question that is almost paramount to heresy for members aligned with the U.S.'s political left, but recent developments in Iraq may indicate that the much-maligned former U.S. president may have been correct in his claims that the American-led invasion of Iraq planted a seed of democracy in the Middle East.
Former U.S. President George W. Bush was wrong about many things. But could it be that when historians sit down to debate the Bush presidency decades from now, their main focus will be to praise the former president for ordering an invasion that indirectly transformed the entire Middle East?

Regardless of the debate, one less debatable fact is emerging: Iraq is ever so slowly becoming a democratic country. This is not to claim that Iraq has blossomed into a paradise of freedom where rights are respected and people no longer live in fear. Today the situation is still quite tumultuous. But despite all the negatives, shoots of democratic growth are being seen.

Speaking to CNN last week, best-selling author and CNN host Fareed Zakaria argued that the Iraqi parliamentary elections that took place last Sunday mark a watershed for the new Iraq for two reasons. “First, if Iraq is able to achieve some degree of consolidation in terms of its democracy, it will add dramatically to its political stability,” said Zakaria. “And the second is, if Iraq is able to consolidate as a democracy, it will mean there will have been some success in Iraq that we can point to for the vast investment and the vast expenditure of blood and treasure that the United States has put in. I'm not saying that you can make an easy statement that this justifies the invasion, I'm simply saying that there will be a very strong positive outcome in Iraq that will at least be set against the cost.”

There's no way of estimating when Iraq might become a full and genuine democracy on par with say, Germany or Japan. It could take half a century or perhaps even a full century. But ever more it is looking as if the “shock and awe” of invasion was required for progress towards democracy. This logic is of course anathema to many liberal Americans, many of whom believe it is impossible to export democracy and who condemn the United States for its sometimes self-righteous belief that it alone represents “true” democracy. But regardless of one's political philosophy it's hard to argue with results on the ground. In Iraq today, political parties are forming bonds and hashing out a kind of democracy that works for them. It's not perfect — it's not even pretty — but it is the beginnings of a modern democracy.

Those who loathed former President George W. Bush found little about his career to praise. Bush's time in office was marked by stumbling, both domestically and overseas. But could it be that George W. Bush will be remembered more for Iraqi democracy than his stumblings?

Over 4,000 military personnel from the US, UK and other nations have lost their lives since operation Iraqi Freedom began in 2003. It's heartening to see indications that history will view these brave fighting men and women as those who made the ultimate sacrifice to bring freedom to Iraq and perhaps eventually the entire region.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/world-issues/2010/03/10/247592/p2/Was-Bush.htm

-- March 10, 2010 2:18 AM


Roger wrote:

Anynomous,

But he sounds so funny,.... I mean... imagine if you yourself would nail one foot to the floor and try to walk around....

The sound it makes......

-- March 10, 2010 3:00 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger,

Sara posted one article stating the position you agree with; in contrast, there were numerous articles in 2008 and 2009 stating the position of the lop. There have been more articles circulated in favor of my position than the position you hold. The Dinar will lop and your 25000 note will be a 25 note. I am right and you are wrong and by the end of the year I will be proved right.

-- March 10, 2010 10:46 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

Trying to hit flies at the latrine in the Male restroom is of much higher interest, gotta go.

-- March 10, 2010 11:35 PM


panhandler wrote:

YOU'RE NOT GETTING APPLES FOR ORANGES, YOU'RE GETTING POUND FOR POUND. . . LOP THE ZEROS, THEY ARE NOT DEVALUING THE DINAR. . .P.H.. . .GOT SOME NEW MEDS ROB. . .

-- March 11, 2010 12:00 AM


Fly on a restroom wall wrote:

Man it stinks in here. Forget lopping the zeros, Rob. Open the door for heavens sake.

-- March 11, 2010 12:32 AM


Roger wrote:

Japanese fighter pilots for sure looped their Zeros.

Could be a snack.

-"Zero lops, Ranch or Jalape'nos, only 0.99C with purchase of a small fountain drink."

Could be a testical veterianry procedure.

-" Are my camels fixed now? Yes Ahmed, they are all zero loped"

Also, I don't think that it any shame at all that Rob N. on occasion, has to go and sit on his zero lop.

-- March 11, 2010 4:23 AM


Sara wrote:

Tight race...

===

Secularist list ahead in two Iraqi provinces
BAGHDAD
Thu Mar 11, 2010

Officials count parliamentary election ballots at the tally centre in Baghdad March 10, 2010.
Credit: Reuters/Thaier al-Sudani

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A cross-sectarian, secularist alliance headed by former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is ahead in two Iraqi provinces north of Baghdad, early results from the country's electoral commission showed Thursday.

Initial results reflecting 17 percent of votes counted from Diyala, an ethnically mixed region northeast of Baghdad, and from largely Sunni Salahuddin province north of the capital showed the Iraqiya list solidly ahead of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's bloc and another largely Shi'ite group after national polls Sunday.

(Reporting by Ahmed Rasheed and Rania El Gamal)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6291UY20100311

-- March 11, 2010 12:03 PM


Sara wrote:

Maliki Holds Edge in Iraq, but Results Are Challenged
Saad Shalash/Reuters By MARC SANTORA
Published: March 11, 2010

BAGHDAD — Early results in Iraq’s parliamentary elections on Thursday indicated that Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki’s coalition was likely to win a plurality in an exceedingly close race, according to Western and Iraqi officials.

Fierce protests by his opponents, however, appeared to delay an imminent official announcement of the preliminary results and threatened to undermine public acceptance of the outcome.

The initial results, the officials said, suggested a race between Mr. Maliki’s coalition; Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite and the leader of the Iraqiya coalition; and a Shiite coalition known as the Iraqi National Alliance. The Kurds, though divided, appeared poised to finish strongly as well, leaving the country’s political landscaped as fractured as ever.

Even as the results were about to be broadcast, one of the Iraqi National Alliance’s leaders, the former exile Ahmed Chalabi, called the vote-counting process itself into question, challenging both the transparency of the ballot counting and the computerized system being used to tabulate the votes.

On Thursday evening, as Mr. Allawi he was meeting with various ambassadors about the election crisis. representatives of his party held a news conference in Baghdad in which they alleged wide-ranging fraud in the voting process. They came armed with visual aids, including pictures and ballots that indicated votes for Iraqiya that they said were found abandoned in a schoolyard in Kirkuk.

“Votes for the Iraqiya list are in the garbage,” said Adnan al-Janabi, a candidate on the Iraqiya list from Baghdad.

Mr. Janabi said he did not know the extent of the alleged fraud. “One or one million, we don’t know.”

The accusations threw into chaos a carefully planned process — overseen by the United Nations — for counting and announcing the tallies from Sunday’s vote. The election of a new 325-member Parliament has been widely considered a major milestone for Iraq. The early indications of an exceedingly close contest made the formation of a new government even more complicated and potentially volatile.

“Whatever the end results, we know it will be a fierce struggle to form a government,” a Western official who had seen the early results said, speaking on condition of anonymity since only the electoral commission was authorized to announce any official results.

“It is a very close race,” the official said.

It was not immediately clear how long the challenges would delay the release of early results or what effect it might have on public acceptance of the eventual results. The chairman of the country’s election commission, Faraj al-Haidari, said in televised remarks that the initial results might take four or five more days to compile and announce, well behind the schedule worked out in consultation with the United Nations.

Even before the vote, there were accusations of intimidation and electoral irregularities, but there have not yet been claims of massive fraud on the scale that tainted Afghanistan’s election last year. Foreign election observers and American officials said that Sunday’s election was carried out with minimal problems or irregularities.

On Thursday, however, Mr. Chalabi swept into a meeting at the election commission’s headquarters to demand that candidates be allowed to review the votes and the computerized system for compiling them.

Mr. Chalabi, who campaigned heavily in Washington for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, holds no elected position but has already profoundly influenced the country’s election. In January he oversaw the process of disqualifying hundreds of candidates on charges they once belonged to Mr. Hussein’s Baath Party, a murky process that raised early doubts about transparency and maturity of the country’s democratic institutions.

As he spoke, election officials looked on with beleaguered and weary expressions and then adjourned, putting off what had been planned as an announcement of the first results.

Mr. Allawi’s coalition said it had filed dozens of complaints with the commission.

At the evening news conference, Iraqiya members struck at the heart of Iraq’s election process, claiming that workers at the state election commission, who have been entering data in to computer systems, were caught fiddling with Iraqiya’s tally. Mr. Janabi said that United Nations monitors caught the tampering, and notified Iraqiya.

Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.

The officials also alleged that Hayder al-Ebadi, a candidate from Mr. Maliki’s list, improperly visited the state election commission offices on Tuesday at 1:30 in the afternoon, and spent an hour-and-a-half.

Whatever the outcome of the challenges, the election appeared to leave the main coalitions in a virtual deadlock, with Mr. Maliki holding a lead, but not a commanding one.

He or a challenger will have to knit together a majority of seats into a coalition with enough of a majority to elect a new prime minister.

The Kurds, who have seen their political front fractured in recent months by internal divisions, seemed poised to hold onto a sizeable bloc of seats in the new, larger Parliament. They could emerge as the decisive faction if they can assemble a united front, according to one Western observer.

Already there have been signs that the coalitions that campaign together were fraying. Most of Iraq’s most powerful political parties joined them as a matter of convenience, and they could easily shift their loyalties.

“The coalitions never really coalesced,” the Western official said. “They are more like gatherings.”

Some of Iraq’s leading politicians signaled that they were open to new alliances, even with bitter opponents during the campaign.

“The State of Law coalition has drawn no red lines against any alliance,” said Ali al-Musawi, a media adviser to Mr. Maliki, referring to the prime minister’s coalition. “We stand equal distance from all of them. Everything is possible.

Tim Arango contributed reporting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/world/middleeast/12iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

-- March 11, 2010 12:12 PM


Sara wrote:

Soon to be ON PAR with Saudi Arabia.. ?? Hmmm...
QUOTE:

"Iraq's deals call for foreign firms to boost output potential to 12 million bpd in seven years, which would leave it snapping at the heels of Saudi Arabia's capacity of 12.5 million bpd."

And it, "could challenge Saudi Arabia's position as dominant producer with the flexibility to influence output significantly."

Making Iraq a "tsunami" yet to be grappled with in the future. But one which, if all plays out well, could benefit and not hurt the world OR oil exporters, quote, "If the market is very tight, with demand rising and non-OPEC supply continuing to disappoint, then Iraq could be accommodated quite well ... "

Hoping for a good outcome, for all, as we all know, quote, "The first test will be how the new government that emerges from Sunday's elections will handle contracts signed by oil firms. But assuming the deals survive intact and work can go ahead, Iraq's huge oilfields present little technical challenge to oil majors that have had to push into regions such as deep water and the Arctic to access oil reserves. There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.". :)

There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.

Sounds very good for Iraq, the world.. and the Iraqi Dinar's future, all things going well.

Sara.

===

ANALYSIS - OPEC may face Iraq challenge sooner than expected
Simon Webb and Jo Winterbottom | 2010-03-11 20:00:00

/LONDON (Reuters) - The storm brewing on OPEC's horizon over future Iraqi oil output could engulf the producer group sooner than it would like.

OPEC was unlikely to discuss Iraq at its meeting on March 17 but it may need to do so within a couple of years.

"There's only one issue, but it's a big one. It's a tsunami. Iraq," said Leo Drollas at the Centre for Global Energy Studies.

After years of sanctions and war, Iraq is exempt from the output targets OPEC uses to set supply levels.

But as Baghdad embarks on an unprecedented oil industry development, OPEC will at some point need to bring Iraq back into the fold to prevent millions of barrels of new oil supply undoing its work to balance markets.

OPEC officials and analysts have said the issue is not urgent, as it could be years before Iraq makes significant increases to current output of around 2.5 million barrels per day (bpd). Baghdad's failure to reach past ambitious targets has fed the scepticism.

The consensus among analysts is that it would take around 5 years for Iraq to boost output by between 1 million bpd and 1.5 million bpd.

But output gains could surprise OPEC in their speed.

"You could be looking at 1.5 million barrels in two years," said a senior executive at one of the oil firms involved in Iraq. "That could make a huge difference to the supply and demand balance. Is there going to be that kind of demand pick up in that timeframe?"

Iraq's deals call for foreign firms to boost output potential to 12 million bpd in seven years, which would leave it snapping at the heels of Saudi Arabia's capacity of 12.5 million bpd.

Iraq faces huge political, security and logistical challenges in reaching that target. The first test will be how the new government that emerges from Sunday's elections will handle contracts signed by oil firms.

But assuming the deals survive intact and work can go ahead, Iraq's huge oilfields present little technical challenge to oil majors that have had to push into regions such as deep water and the Arctic to access oil reserves. There is nowhere else on earth where international oil firms have access to such cheap to produce, abundant reserves.

Reaching 12 million bpd in seven years appears improbable, but oil firms believe early gains will be easy.

The terms of the contracts Iraq has signed encourage firms to boost output quickly to recover costs. Once firms boost output from producing fields by 10 percent, they start getting paid.

"The way the contract is structured is to incentivise swift progress," said Bill Farren-Price of consultancy Petroleum Policy Intelligence. "I'm fairly optimistic that we'll see Iraqi oil output rising over the next 12 months as Rumaila and other projects get underway."

Iraq has said it expects another 200,000 bpd of oil from fields leased under the new contracts this year. Its biggest producing field, Rumaila, should rise 100,000 bpd by July. BP and CNPC won the contract to boost output at Rumaila, the workhorse of Iraq's oil industry to 2.85 million bpd from 1.07 million bpd.

WHAT CAN OPEC TOLERATE?

OPEC, which has weathered many difficulties in its 50-year history including a bitter war between members Iran and Iraq, will likely put off thorny negotiations on how to accommodate a resurgent Iraq as long as possible.

"It's the last thing they want to do (tackle this issue), the want to sweep it under the carpet," said Drollas of the CGES.

When the group calls on Iraq to rejoin the depends on how quickly oil demand rebounds after two years of contraction due to the global economic downturn.

"If the market is very tight, with demand rising and non-OPEC supply continuing to disappoint, then Iraq could be accommodated quite well ... But if demand falls then it would be a very big challenge for OPEC," said Bassam Fattouh at Oxford Energy.

Even if the market could absorb the extra production, other OPEC producers would have to maintain curbs on supply in place since late 2008, while Iraq pumped more.

This would create tensions within the group as other members effectively give up market share and billions of dollars of potential revenues to Iraq.

Baghdad has said that it believes OPEC should allow it to pump more without imposing a quota as it has lost market share and revenues to other members of the group as years of sanctions and war prevented Iraq from achieving its production potential.

OPEC officials have said they would need to think about quotas once Iraq showed it can consistently pump 3 million to 3.5 million bpd.

Some say the group would have to address the issue if Iraq's output approached 5 million bpd -- putting it ahead of Iran and making Baghdad the second largest OPEC producer after Riyadh.

That could challenge Saudi Arabia's position as dominant producer with the flexibility to influence output significantly.

"As Iraq substantially exceeds Iran's production level it will raise significant political problems for OPEC as a whole and for Saudi Arabia in particular," said Edward Morse, head of global commodities research at Credit Suisse.

Iraq has strengthened its hand for future negotiations with the oil deals. Previous production targets have been based on reserves. Iraq's reserves are a little smaller than Iran's, so a renewed quota might be similar to that of its neighbour. Iran's target is around 3.34 million bpd, although Tehran disputes that and is pumping around 3.75 million bpd.

But Iraq would likely refuse to be saddled with that comparison, as the deals it has signed would put it on a par with Saudi capacity, regardless of its reserves. It would likely use that as a starting point for negotiations, analysts say.

http://sify.com/news/analysis-opec-may-face-iraq-challenge-sooner-than-expected-news-international-kdluaofcbjd.html

-- March 11, 2010 12:39 PM


Sara wrote:

Early Iraq results: PM battling secular challenger
By LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer
Mar 11 2010

BAGHDAD – Partial vote results in Iraq's historic election released Thursday showed a tight contest between the nation's prime minister, who had the lead in two provinces in the mainly Shiite south, and a secular challenger who appeared to be drawing on Sunni support north of Baghdad.

The preliminary tallies from five of Iraq's 18 provinces were a setback to hard-line religious Shiite political leaders who have close ties to Iran. But results for the big prize — Baghdad — have yet to be released.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's bloc was ahead with over a third of the votes counted in the mainly Shiite provinces of Babil and Najaf where his rival Shiite religious coalition had hoped to make gains. The Iraqiya list, which is led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite, took the lead in the former Sunni insurgent strongholds of Diyala and Salahuddin.

Results from a fifth province, Irbil, were also released showing the Kurdish Alliance, which joins the two main Kurdish parties, beating out the upstart Kurdish party, Gorran, in the self-rule territory.

In Babil province, al-Maliki's political bloc won about 42 percent of the estimated 160,870 votes that have been counted so far, according to the data released by the election commission. In neighboring Najaf province, al-Maliki's win was even stronger — about 47 percent of the ballot count of 116,600 votes.

But al-Maliki appeared to be lagging far behind Allawi's list in the central provinces of Salahuddin, which is mostly Sunni, and Diyala, which has a mixed population of Sunnis, Shiites and Turkomen.

With only 17 percent of the ballots counted — far below the 30 percent threshhold that election officials had said would be the standard for releasing results — Iraqiya had about 55 percent of the vote in Diyala and 60 percent in Salahuddin.

At the election headquarters in Baghdad, scores of journalists jostled for a view of the vote counts as they were posted on big-screen TVs. Election officials appeared overwhelmed by the task of counting and reporting the vote, and seemed to have underestimated how long it would take. The election commission did not post the results on a Web site or make them otherwise accessible to the public, although the state-run TV channel reported the tallies Thursday evening.

Election officials said they had received about 1,000 complaints about the election process so far, although gave no indication as to what the complaints were about.

The Iraqi National Alliance, which is Iraq's top Shiite religious coalition, came in second in both of the southern provinces. The INA is made up of two main political parties — the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council and the political party led by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

A win in Babil and Najaf provinces would represent an improvement for al-Maliki's coalition over last year's provincial election.

The election news came as al-Maliki's office Thursday announced that the prime minister underwent surgery the day before for what an aide described Thursday as a "simple" procedure. The prime minister has already been released from the hospital and is back at work, the statement said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=AtP2Nd4x3GqfARu9vUsxeRxxieAA;_ylu=X3oDMTJuZ2lqNWw1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzExL21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDcmFuZG9tBGNwb3MDNwRwb3MDNwRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2Vhcmx5aXJhcXJlcw

-- March 11, 2010 2:05 PM


The Green Machine wrote:

The beginning of the end of oil as a valuable commodity:

From Greentech Media:

"Green Kingpins Part 2: Craig Venter of Synthetic Genomics

“We are at the early stages of seeing what biology can do.”

By the time they are done, J. Craig Venter of Synthetic Genomics and KR Sridhar of Bloom Energy will have raised more than a billion dollars of venture investment between the two of them. Both of these men are world-class entrepreneurs with world-class investor backing.

They spoke at the Wall Street Journal ECO:nomics event last week. The men are in very different markets and deal with very different sciences. But both are both taking on enormous technical and societal challenges and huge markets while armed with big war chests -- and big egos.

Craig Venter is a visionary who led the effort to sequence the human genome and now he's working on an equally world-changing project: Using algae to go directly from CO2 to hydrocarbons.

In July of last year, Synthetic Genomics announced a $300 million agreement with Exxon to research and develop next generation biofuels using photosynthetic algae. That investment will occur over a number of years -- but that's still a lot of cash. It's more than the total amount of venture capital invested in algae startups since 2005. A drop in the bucket for Exxon but still, big money.

Here's what Venter had to say: "We are at the early stages of seeing what biology can do."

Venter has come up an idea to trick algae into pumping more lipids out. He also claims to have "engineered algae to continuously pump out hydrocarbons," which eliminates much of the cost and energy-intensity of conventional algae oil farming. If that can be done, economically and at scale -- it is absolutely disruptive.

Venter understands the challenge confronting him (and every other algae oil aspirant), saying, "The real bugaboo is scale." Exxon is ready to invest $600 million but "the next phase will require billions."

Venter speaks in a matter-of-fact manner about his activities but beneath that calm tone are mind-bending ideas straight out of science-fiction novels. Venter has already created the first cell with a synthetic DNA gene. If not exactly creating life, Venter is bending the genetic code to do his bidding. He said that he is "going from the four-letter genetic code of A, C, G and T to the binary codes of ones and zeros."

He is "amassing a genetic database...continually learning to write the genetic code" and "treating the genetic code as a raw material." By "changing the DNA software in the cell, the cell converts to a new species." In Venter's words, "The concept of life is changing." He's looking to "design a new algae from scratch with two to three times more efficiency."

Venter is still determining what types of algae to use and whether it is more efficient to grow them in open ponds or in closed containers called bioreactors -- and that's telling. If these are still questions at Synthetic Genomics and Exxon (i.e., how to grow the algae and which species or strain to use), then these firms have betrayed that we are still very early in the research portion of the program; we are not yet at the development part of the R&D equation.

In Venter's "optimistic" estimation, it will take roughly a decade to get to scale on CO2 to fuel. But "once the proof of concept is done, this will move rapidly."

There remain many problems with algae -- it's not just a matter of tricking the algae to pump more lipids out or to secrete hydrocarbons. There's an entire process chain in algae farming that needs to be optimized -- algae growth, water issues, nutrient issues and more.

But Venter is a man of action and it's not a good bet to wager against him"

Conclusion: The Arabs better get their act together. They have a couple of decades at most, to live off oil. Then it's all over, and they have to work for a living, like the rest of us. 20 years is not a long time. Soon no one will want their oil. No one will be willing to fight over it. It will be worthless.

-- March 11, 2010 2:46 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq PM in tight contest with ex-premier for poll lead

AFP - Friday, March 12

BAGHDAD (AFP) - – Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was in a tight contest to keep his job as he vied with ex-premier Iyad Allawi, initial election results from four of the country's 18 provinces showed Thursday.

Four days after the election, Maliki and Allawi, both Shiite, have emerged nationally as the main candidates for the post of prime minister, with their blocs appearing to have fared best in Sunday's polls.

Complete results are expected to be announced on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.

Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.

Several blocs called on Thursday for individual polling station tally sheets to be published online, expressing concerns the nationwide vote would not be in line with the total from individual stations.

Were the polling station tally sheets posted online, political blocs could check to see if their sum corresponded with the nationwide results tabulated by the election commission.

"I am not saying there has been fraud but we fear that the results could have been modified," said Maysun Damaluji, spokeswoman for the Iraqiya bloc and a candidate for parliament.

"The count is not being conducted in a proper fashion," Damaluji said, claiming that some party observers had been evicted from counting rooms. No election official was immediately available to comment on the allegations.

The INA added in its own statement that it was concerned over "signs of intentions to change the election results."

"We call on the commission to put the tally sheets of each province on the commission's website so that candidates and political entities will be able to count their votes manually," it said.

Electoral authorities have received around 1,000 complaints, according to Hamdiyah al-Husseini, an election official.

http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/afp/20100312/twl-iraq-vote-575b600.html

-- March 11, 2010 5:34 PM


Sara wrote:

Quote: .. " in Brussels, the point-man for European Parliament relations with Iraq accused top Iraqi electoral commission figures of rigging the election at Iran's behest. "

===
Iraq PM in tight contest with ex-premier Iyad Allawi for poll lead
AFP, Mar 12, 2010

BAGHDAD: Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was in a tight contest to keep his job as he vied with ex-premier Iyad Allawi, initial election results from four of the country's 18 provinces showed Thursday.

Four days after the election, Maliki and Allawi, both Shiite, have emerged nationally as the main candidates for the post of prime minister, with their blocs appearing to have fared best in Sunday's polls.

In the autonomous region of Kurdistan, meanwhile, Kinaani said the Kurdistania alliance, made up of the region's two long-dominant parties, was in the lead in Arbil province with 27 percent of votes counted.

Kurdistania is made up of regional president Massud Barzani's Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.

In second place was the opposition Goran bloc ("Change" in Kurdish), which surprised observers by snaring nearly a quarter of the vote in Kurdish regional elections last year.

Complete results are expected to be announced on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.

Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.

Several blocs called on Thursday for individual polling station tally sheets to be published online, expressing concerns the nationwide vote would not be in line with the total from individual stations.

Were the polling station tally sheets posted online, political blocs could check to see if their sum corresponded with the nationwide results tabulated by the election commission.

The INA added in its own statement that it was concerned over "signs of intentions to change the election results."

"We call on the commission to put the tally sheets of each province on the commission's website so that candidates and political entities will be able to count their votes manually," it said.

Electoral authorities have received around 1,000 complaints, according to Hamdiyah al-Husseini, an election official.

And in Brussels, the point-man for European Parliament relations with Iraq accused top Iraqi electoral commission figures of rigging the election at Iran's behest.

"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," said British conservative MEP Struan Stevenson in a statement.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Iraq-PM-in-tight-contest-with-ex-premier-Iyad-Allawi-for-poll-lead/articleshow/5673838.cms

-- March 11, 2010 7:56 PM


Roger wrote:

Election still unknown, some small indicators start to show up, but it is one of those early bird indicators that has discussion valye only.

Iraq oil output of 12 mill barrels....pretty high goals, will lead to a lot of changes in the worlds oil market.

That is an emergence of Iraq as the Gulf strongman, Saui Arabia will not be able to sustain it's production level, and in the long run they will be over taken by Iraq.

Yes one day the oil will be either used up, or substituted, as one blogger so frankly stated here, but the statement that this is only 20 years away, that is too soon to change around , but I will give it 50 years perhaps.

-- March 11, 2010 8:08 PM


Sara wrote:

Roger posted: Yes one day the oil will be either used up, or substituted, as one blogger so frankly stated here, but the statement that this is only 20 years away, that is too soon to change around , but I will give it 50 years perhaps.

I agree, Roger. One day there will be demand for an alternate when we are almost out of oil and then "miraculously" someone will find the answer, an alternative. But oil is cheap now and not likely to be taken by storm overnite. Until then, say.. 50 years or so from now.. the idea of alternates is still just a "pipe dream." I don't mind it when individuals believe in some pipe dream and put their money into one as a private venture. More power to em.. hope they find an alternate and make it rich. I only object when it is the Government doing it with the people's tax revenues.. they are not supposed to be in business. That is not the role of government, to make a buck. Government competition with the private sector, whether it be in energy or car sales is a breach of trust with the public and a conflict of interest. Which is what Toyota said recently, including this comment, "As an American citizen, it is tough on my part to pay tax dollars to an entity that can turn around and use those tax dollars to get my fellow American citizens to not do business with me,":

===

Toyota Dealers Fight Back Against "Predatory Tactics" by GM say they're upset that their tax money is being used to lure away their customers
By Jim Forsyth
Monday, March 8, 2010

The head of the Toyota National Dealer Council today blasted the federal government for using 'taxpayer dollars' to fund incentive campaigns to lure customers away from Toyota, and accused GM of using ‘fear’ in an attempt to lure away its customers, 1200 WOAI news reports.

"As an American citizen, it is tough on my part to pay tax dollars to an entity that can turn around and use those tax dollars to get my fellow American citizens to not do business with me," Paul Atkinson, who owns Atkinson Toyota in Bryan Texas, and is President of the dealer council, tells 1200 WOAI news.

Atkinson says when General Motors was going through bankruptcy last Spring, Toyota behaved in a 'compassionate way,' and did not use GM's uncertain future as a 'lever to steal its customers.' But he says now that GM has been strengthened with taxpayer money, it is using 'low blow tactics' to hurt his business.

"The government owns 60% of General Motors, and these American tax dollars are funding business activity for one company, with the express goal of negatively impacting another company," Atkinson said today.

Atkinson specifically cited GM dealer mailings which he says have been targeted at existing Toyota owners. He called it ‘a nationwide predatory advertising campaign that uses fear in an attempt to lure customers away from Toyota and Lexus dealers.’

"There are some mailing lists which have been given to dealers, and there have been some mailers, in fact, I've seen several of them," he said. "On the outside of the envelope it says 'important Toyota recall information enclosed.' But when you open up that envelope, it is nothing more than an advertisement trying to get you to come trade your Toyota in at a GM store."

Atkinson calls those 'predatory incentives,' which he says should not be allowed to be employed by a company which is majority owned by US taxpayers against another company which employs hundreds of thousands of Americans.

"We will be sending letters out to Senators and Congressmen, as well as (Transportation) Secretary (Ray) LaHood," Atkinson said. "It's really unfair that American citizens have to fund this."

Atkinson also suggested that the recent Congressional hearings and federal government concern over Toyota's accelerator problems may have been sparked less by a desire to protect the public, and more by a desire to protect the federal government's investment in GM.

"There is a list of twenty manufacturers on these recall lists, and Toyota is number 17," he quoted several members of Congress and telling him privately. "If we're having hearings on number 17, what are they doing about numbers 1 through 16?"

Atkinson said business at Toyota dealerships was down 10% in January and down 8% in February, but the dealerships are standing behind Toyota products.

"Despite all of this, we outsold all of the other manufacturers in February except for one," he said. "Let's get these numbers in perspective. Sure, our sales are down, but we are outselling a lot of other brands."

http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6855247

-- March 12, 2010 1:34 AM


The Green Machine wrote:

Sara said: "the idea of alternates is still just a "pipe dream."

Sara: How do you know the idea of alternatives is just a pipe dream? Do you know more than Exxon, who are investing hundreds of millions, and soon to be billions, in a "pipe dream"? People who run oil companies are making these decisions, to invest in research, looking for alternatives, and these are hard nosed business people who know energy, know what it costs, and are making educated guesses as to what might be practical, with a bit more research. Do you really think you know so much about energy that you can pre-ordain what another decade of research by dedicated scientists into energy alternatives will bring? Especially when they don't fully know themselves? You think you know more than them? Your statement would indicate you think you do....Sara, Your arrogance is only exceeded by your idiocy. Your comments are completely idiotic, Sara. You should apologize to common sense for that remark.

And then Sara said: "One day there will be demand for an alternate when we are almost out of oil and then "miraculously" someone will find the answer, an alternative"....oh, I see, Sara, some magic fairy appears, waves her wand, clicks her ruby slippers three times, tells everyone they are not in Kansas anymore, sprinkles some Jesus dust around, and "miraculously" an alternative appears...no need for Exxon to spend hundreds of billions in research and development....all that thinking is just too hard, when magic will do!....grow up Sara, life doesn't work like that. How old are you anyhow? Six?

You're just a naive suckup for the status quo. And Obama is running the show now, not John McSenile, so governmental money, and lots of it, will be spent looking for alternatives. There's nothing you can do about it. You are powerless. And after nearing wrecking the economy, those loser Republicans were kicked out, on their ass, and won't get back for 20 years, 30 if we're lucky. They too are powerless. So you can go on harping all you want, but YOUR TAX DOLLARS will continue to be used to fund energy research, and there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it.... You seem to think elections are God's will...ok...If elections are God's will, then God must think Republicans are now losers, and not fit to govern. I sure think so, and I guess God agrees with me!....stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!

-- March 12, 2010 3:23 AM


Roger wrote:

If now, our Gov owns 60% of GM, the mental picture I just got, is how a Gov employee will conduct himself when he is selling these Gov vehicles.

Big square pattern jacket and white shoes, that is a given, and the sales technique thorougly examined by the Gov better business advisory council.

This might be a prelude to the Soviet era car production, and sales distribution, where the citizen had to line up ten years before they get their car.

R. Reagan told that joke to Gorby, when the Soviet citizen desperately needed to know if the car was delivered before or after lunch.

"-Why does that matter, its ten years from now?"....-"Well, I need to know, my plumber comes after lunch"

About energy, well I'm with you, we have fossile fuel for now, and it seems like the awareness of getting a different fuel is pretty high right now, some call it the green movement, I call it common sense.

Most probbly a pretty long development will take place in where they make the combustion engine more efficient, or it is used in combination with batteries and the electric motor.

It's pretty obvious that the quickest way to save gas, or as the modern word is now, "leave a lesser carbon footprint" (wow that sounds really on top of things), is to favor smaller vehicles.

In that respect, the technology and production is ready in place, both in Europe, Japan and Korea.

Here in the US, the trend has only started, but I se much smaller cars on the street today, than I did only five years ago, plus the SUV craze where you have to have an SUV with a rope ladder to reach the door, and basketboll court inside, is gone now. That is a great sign, there is for sure a need for a few of those here and there, but all in all, regular Joe, don't need it to commute bumper to bumper.

The car in itself IS freedom, and if you would ask regular Joe, to either stop using gas or take the commute train, he will for sure find a tird alternative that will involve keeping his car.

He would most probably go with a smaller car, if the other option is the communal commute.

He would most probably smile when he remember his 350 small block, but will do everything to continue to drive his car, even if it is now driven by propane, hydroxy fuel cell, hybrid double ram transducer engine with zero slip transmission, and emission comparable with what a bat will breath out in a full years lifespan...

He will choose the car over anything.

That is also the field where most pressure on oil is excerted.

That is also the field where emission laws are most stringient.

Plus, lets not forget, that is also the field that will hit the consumer in the pocket in a straight and visible way.

So even if oil consumption itself is a wide area to cover, one of the best indicators in new technology is in the automotive field.

The 70's had a false start when it came to inovative designs that would help lessening the oil dependancy, but the electronic development was not up to par in those days, and most projects ended up as a frontpage in Popular Mechanics, and then, never to be seen again.

Today, the development for a more efficient ride have truly taken off, the needed electronics is today up to par, and this time all the big car manufacturers are on board.

Europe have been running clean diesel technology for some time, and over half of the cars over there are diesels. Hard to picture it, but small economy cars with maybe a 12 to 1400 cc engine with fuel mileage in the 50 to 70 mpg range have been buzzing around there for a long time.

It's consumer expectancy, over here a small car, is considered a mid size in Europe.

But, the consumer expectancy is built on what you push.

Mid to late 1990's the car commercials were full of big, bigger and biggest SUV's, (ours is bigger than theirs) that was pushed, and of course, that's what sells.

A sales campaign here pushing small cars will do the trick.

Suddenly, having a small car is "cool" and having a battleship is sooooo wrong.

A complete independence from oil will probably take quite some time, as even if the cars are gettng more efficient, and uses much less gas, the volume of them will keep the world thirsty for oil.

Emerging markets will keep the oil flowing for quite some time. In many of those countries, the evolution in efficiency or pollution control, have not even started.

A big town in India or China (or Baghdad, your pick) is a smog producer of big magnitude.

The prospective oil from Iraq, will easily find markets, so from the perspective of a sudden worldly disinterest in oil overnight....with the result that Iraq and all the other oil producing nations will do maintenace on their oil installations... like....keep the rodents away...and keep the cobwebs from the office building....and chase away nesting birds from the pipes....and the Iraqi Dinar will plumet, because of no oil sale.....well, as I say I will probably have to wait for another 50 years before I will asess the situation again.

That is not to say I don't welcome new ways to use energy. I really welcome any new approach.


-- March 12, 2010 3:41 AM


The Green Machine wrote:

I think technology is changing far faster than in the past, including green energy technology. In the past, it might have taken 50 years to get off oil. But now, there are more scientists alive today, than the rest of human history combined. and many of them are interested in getting off oil. This means a lot more will happen, quicker than people expect. And then Americans can continue to drive big cars, but do it cleanly. This guy agrees with me:

Vinod Khosla: In energy, ignore the experts
by Martin LaMonica

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md.--Monkeys throwing darts have the same predictive powers as experts forecasting the price of oil or when grandmas will surf the Web with mobile phones, says Vinod Khosla.

The high-profile investor, who raised over $1 billion for a green-technology fund last year, argued here Wednesday that technology change in energy will happen faster than most expect because energy has now become a focus on technical innovation.

Khosla spoke at the ARPA-E Summit, a conference dedicated to showcasing breakthrough clean-energy technologies, where he challenged attendees to think big.

As an example of missed forecasts, he cited McKinsey's 1980 prediction that there would be fewer than 1 million mobile phones sold in 2000 when the actual number was over 100 million. Handicapping the price of oil, too, is often off-target because experts' assumptions are wrong.

"It's technology change that people miss and fail to forecast and I see that happening all over again in energy," he said. "A better way to forecast the future is to invent it because it's been proven that extrapolating the past doesn't work."

Not surprisingly, Khosla cited examples of companies that he is funding to demonstrate how technology can tackle the primary challenges in energy, which he said are coal, oil, materials, and efficiency.

Calera, for example, is a company that uses carbon dioxide as a feedstock to make building materials, such as concrete. Another is Kior, which is making gasoline and diesel replacements from wood.

His investment philosophy is to seek companies that can create technologies that compete with fossil fuels on price and can be scaled. Making biodiesel from restaurant grease, for example, is not "relevant scale" and selling hybrids to consumers in India and China is unlikely to happen because the price tag is so much higher than that on gasoline cars, he said.

Regarding policy, Khosla said the transformation of the energy industry will happen even if the U.S. does not put a price on carbon as a way of lowering total emissions. "A carbon price will definitely help...The right policies will definitely accelerate innovation and likely make the U.S. more competitive," he said.

More important is that energy has become a focus for innovation, particularly among young people and start-up companies.

"I think we're doing all the right things," he said. "The most important thing we did is make energy an interesting area for Ph.D. students over the last five years."

-- March 12, 2010 4:17 AM


Roger wrote:

I just want to propose a perspective here, when it comes to oil dependency.

Go to YouTube, and pull up a couple of street scenes from Mumbai, Jakarta or China.

Think that is packed, just look at any rat race in the Americas, may it be Mexico, US or Canada. Europe is packed with cars, any continent is smack dang packed with them.

If new and more efficent resources are developed, that is nice and ducky, but when those are developed to cover the sheer VOLUME needed, then and only then do we have an alternative.

If you throw a couple of millions into a research project, for that money you will get a couple of cisterns, some pumps, pipes and other hardware, some office buildings, (usually prefabs) gravel yard, porta johns and a break room with a fridge, with a lot of notes on it telling you to not leave food, and where they will never fix the A/C.

They will get a fence, and a low wage guard that never knows anything and have to be woken up if you want to ask a question. He's darn good in pushing the button that raises and lower the boom.

The research team is not a government team, it is a corporate team, they are just using he govt money ( our money)
to do the research, but as it is initiated by a corporation the research result will have many years time lag before they can be seen by public, propriarity knowledge is governed very heavily.

This to ensure that if the reserch is showing good results, the corporation that initiated the research with our tax money , will get the very first investment opportunity into it.

That corporation will then develop the technology further, and that part will stay with the corporation.

If the results are not too good, or it shows that it is not feasable to develop, a shut down is then logical. The point of shut down will however depend on how long time the gov will pay for the research. So all the corporation need to show is "progress" and the money will keep coming.

Research money is just that, the entity the government finance, will exist as long as the government will feed it.

Last known illness that was actually cured, was Polio.

Late -40's early 50's.

60 years ago....again, 60 years ago.

Since then we have invested billions and billions in research for Cancer, Aids, Flu, you name it.

There will not be a cure for Cancer, Aids or Flu, because a cure means that the entity financed (fed) by the government will die.

So that's what government research are doing.

They don't cure anything, and they don't come up with anything that makes them say.....-"We're done"

But they are darn good researcher, so THAT is what they do. They research....Nothing else.

The Government have an idea that they wanto to solve something, so they throw money at it.

They've done it over and over again, and will most probably continue to write checks to solve their political agendas.

Right now the key words are "Energy, grenhouse gasses, oil dependency, global warming and organic food"

Say those words and the politicians of today, being in a hypnotic trance, will write you a check with our money.

Don't steal, the Government hates competition.

-- March 12, 2010 4:44 AM


Roger wrote:

Yes technology will develp faster today then in the past, that I agree with, as we have been able to computerize research into gigantic equations that can be solved in a flash. Earlier research was done by hand, pen and paper.

The knowledge of running stuff on Hydrogen, doing fuel from algae, or corn or whatever is already known.

We can of course still develop it further, but the basic knowledge needed to take a decision is already here. We can even go back to steam engines, or develop Stirling engines, all that stuff have been around for very long time.

It's not the knowledge that you can run a car on cornoil, algea or whatever, it is the whole distribution network all around the world that needs to be built up.

I have been running my diesel on old restaurant grease, and have built a couple of hydrogen cells. So I know it can be done.

But, it's not the knowledge that it can be done.

Take Hydrogen for example, exhaust, pure water.

Fuel...oceans....water.

Can't get any better than that.

It's the ....do it.

Build up a world wide distribution system, fully in par with all the oil pumps in oilfields, oilrefineries, pipelines, oil rigs, tanker boats, harbors, and gas stations all around the world.

Powerplants generating Hydrogen, delivery, storage, fuelingstations etc...and not much from the oil infrastructure is compatiable, and it has to be big enough to fuel ALL of the worlds vehicles.

Do THAT.

It will not happen as long as there is a system already in place, like oil or not. Like new technology or not.

I hope it will happen, but it will take an investment of such a magnitude that this world have never seen before.

Tell that to a congress that are already up in debt over their ears. And that is only in this country. We (the world) have to invest in the new fuel delivery system all over the world.

No... the politicians will, as usually, take the cheap way out and toss money to research projects, that will be payed by you and me, and never come up with a product... a five years study in algaes, corn, pickles or whatever, then and only then, can the guys in Washinton sleep.

They always take the cheap way out.... constantly.

-- March 12, 2010 5:31 AM


Roger wrote:

WHOA HERE IT COMES'

Shibibi, the President of CBI told IMF that Iraq will create an interbank exchange system for the Iraqi Dinar out side the framework of auctins held.

Interbank exchange system is nothing but pure Forex.

Forex is nothing but an interbank currency exchange system. THAT word is the definition of Forex.

Looking good looking good.

-- March 12, 2010 7:28 AM


Franko wrote:

Yea Buddy!

Thanks for that piece of info, I needed that.

Franko

-- March 12, 2010 10:08 AM


Anonymous wrote:

Here comes Santa Claus!
Here comes Santa Claus!
Right down Santa Claus Lane!
He's got a bag that is filled with toys
for the boys and girls again.
Hear those sleigh bells jingle jangle,
What a beautiful sight.
Jump in bed, cover up your head,
'Cause Santa Claus comes tonight.

-- March 12, 2010 12:43 PM


GM wrote:

Roger, Bloom Boxes have a hydrogen storage unit, for the home, for the car, etc, that will be a commercial product in 10 years. All hydrogen will be produced in the home, so there is less of a need for a distribution system for hydrogen. You Tube has some good videos on it.

Research will bring many surprises. It always does. Who would have predicted the invention of the light bulb? The airplane? Very few. Keep throwing lots of money into research, and surprising and very cheap answers will eventually emerge. A hundred years ago, the world you and I know didn't exist. A hundred years from now, our world will disappear and a better world, with technology undreamed of today will appear. But only if people have vision and put money into basic research.

My guess is, the problem of electrical energy storage will be solved, and the world will run on electricity, not hydrogen. That will likely be far cheaper than hydrogen, is my guess. But we'll see.

Where will the answers come from? Private enterprise won't do this. Its the role of government to fund the future. And the role of inventors is to invent the future. Private enterprise is run by practical people who are not dreamers. Business people make the existing world work, but can't create a new world. They don't have it in them. A new world will be created by the dreamers and tinkerers, not by most business people, and not by corporate suck-ups like Sara, who have no imagination.

Once the future is created, and it's cheap, then even your average gutless, stupid politician will go along with it.

-- March 12, 2010 1:02 PM


Sara wrote:

Green Machine/Doc Doomy;

Hey, I said they would find an alternate.. and they will. Pretty obviously there are big players involved in this, as you pointed out. And they will wait.. until the oil runs out to "miraculously" introduce their new product. But they are developing them now, so it isn't pixie dust. Your invectives and pejoratives notwithstanding, you proved my points. It is no fairy tale making this work, it is hard nosed business sense. And they won't introduce their alternates until they use up what they are already selling. That is the way business works. You don't leave yourself with a bunch of dead stock (oil). How dare you bring Jesus' name into your discourse against me just because I am a Christian, calling it "Jesus dust". What disrespect you show toward my God. It is you who has a lot of growing up to do and ability to learn tolerance and respect for other points of view than your own. As you said, "Obama is running the show now, not John Mc, so governmental money, and lots of it, will be spent looking for alternatives." EXACTLY, that was my point. Instead of the private sector you said was looking into a proper business model and how to find and then bring it market.. the government will do the work.. and we all know how great government bureaucracy works in getting and delivering private sector services. As for your juvenile rant about, "YOUR TAX DOLLARS will continue to be used to fund energy research, and there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." That is below despicable. I only hope Americans wake up to their choices and private sector being taken over by big government and won't take it and continue to SUFFER under such insidious stupidity. As for God giving people what they deserve.. it was listening to the likes of you which put America into the mess she is in now.. maybe one day, very soon, we will see these same Americans regretting that mistake enough to make the right choice - God never forces His will on any people. They missed His choice last time, hopefully they will look for His will and choose it this time around. Otherwise they can live with the consequences of putting people in power like you.. and just "suffer" while such folks as you laugh with their "ha, ha, so there.. learn to live with it" mentality.

Roger - well said. When you state about how backward the government would be selling cars. Also I note you stated, "The 70's had a false start when it came to inovative designs that would help lessening the oil dependancy, most projects ended up as a frontpage in Popular Mechanics, and then, never to be seen again." I feel that will most likely be the fate of the government trying its hand at the energy sector. No different than the jokes of cars coming from the soviet union, they just won't get a model which works. And they will keep on funding and funding and funding it. There is no "fail" with a government product. So whatever loser project they make up will be on the cover of Popular Mechanics for years as the taxpayer funds a losing enterprise and all the government lobbyists will tell those in power what a great product they have so they keep on pumping the tax dollars their way. Meanwhile, people with any common sense will know and believe otherwise and not buy their failed policies (a new cash for clunkers, anyone?). The government sees PRIVATE enterprise doing a great job and working great innovation so they say, "We want a piece of that action" and jump in. It is like they look at third world dictators and say enviously to themselves how wonderful it would be to have Saddam's palace and all the oil production to themselves and be seen as "rock stars" in their own nation. That is their goals, not the proper use of governmental powers. They want rock stardom and cash.. the Michael Jacksons of government enterprise. But just wait until the government gets into competition with the private sector in energy and then watch a debacle like America has never seen. We all know how well Communism works for supplying the needs of the people in the past. And America lets her out of control Congress and executive branches take her resources and take over her industry, aping the colosus of Rome, which rightly fell from its own internal corruption.

As you said, "I welcome new ways to use energy. I really welcome any new approach." But, you point out, that won't affect the investment in the Dinar which is based on oil being found and developed in Iraq. It will take a lot more time than our generation to exhaust the oil reserves and only AFTER that happens will the alternates be viable and worth pursuing.. for anyone with a brain in their heads.. of which you cannot count a government bureaucracy. AFTER the government fails miserably, and misspends HUGE amounts of taxpayer cash.. only then will they give up their knight in shining armor mentality of trying to save the world from bogus Global Warming and a bogus "need" to make alternates work while we have cheap oil on hand. Then rationality will kick in.. if they don't go bankrupt attempting this stupidity first.

Doc Doom/Greenie Machine - The title of your article says an awful lot, "In energy, ignore the experts". Like, this is really the best way to go. After all, they are only EXPERTS because.. why?

What a travesty this young rich man has for a mentality when he says, quote, "Regarding policy, Khosla said the transformation of the energy industry will happen even if the U.S. does not put a price on carbon as a way of lowering total emissions. "A carbon price will definitely help...The right policies will definitely accelerate innovation and likely make the U.S. more competitive," he said.

The RIGHT policies? The reason he wants cap and trade is to make it so that instead of CHEAP oil, we have EXPENSIVE oil, using this TAX on carbon emissions as an excuse. THEN the much more expensive "alternate" technologies will come into play. Currently, the alternate technologies cannot compete in a free market against such a CHEAP commodity as oil, so they must use government to FORCE their much more expensive solution by the use of a carbon TAX which makes cheap oil more expensive. As Obama said, his policies will "NECESSARILY" bankrupt the coal industry.. in favor of these far more expensive alternates. It is not viable in the real world of the free market, so they must FORCE this change.. for our good, you understand. Only when government (who knows so much better than you) forces you to buy the five times more expensive alternate which you would never have bought before, will the world be saved and made clean. And the way to do it is to stop that oil from being so cheap by making them pay a fine, or tariff.. through these bogus carbon credits to "offset" non-existent Global Warming. It is all contrived and will cost so much it will hamper industry. When you have to pay five times the amount for fuel, you will drive less, but also, the price of goods at the grocery store which have to be trucked in (using alternate or very expensive fuel) will be much more expensive. It would never be a choice the private sector would choose! But it will be rammed down the public's throat, as Obamacare is being now, and as Greenie Doom here says, there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." And all the while these alternatative fuel barons will get rich on their very expensive alternates, because instead of oil, you are FORCED by the government to buy their much more expensive alternate. It is all powered by their greed and love of money, not the desire to see "clean" alternatives, they are just playing the government for cheap tricks like a prostitute, prostituting governmental power and using the government to enrich themselves. Ignore the experts, indeed.. and give young rich men like this the ability to compete with the big players.. who got big finding CHEAP ways to deliver fuel and run American enterprise. In the end, the American people will suffer from such folly of governmental interference in the free market, because, as history shows us.. it never works.

As Roger said, "If the results are not too good, or it shows that it is not feasable to develop, a shut down is then logical. The point of shut down will however depends on how long a time the gov will pay for the research. So all the corporation needs to show is "progress" and the money will keep coming. Research money is just that, the entity the government finance, will exist as long as the government will feed it." That is the problem in a nutshell. Government in business means funding business models which don't work and should fail.. until we get a collapse like Fannie and Freddie, who loaned when the government told them to instead of when the risk was worth taking. By loaning to people who could not repay, they made a bubble which eventually burst. This will be just another government made bubble. Your sentence "the politicians will, as usual, toss money to research projects, that will be payed by you and me, and never come up with a product... is so TRUE. It won't be a cheap way this time, it will be making the expensive alternates able to compete with cheap oil. By making things so much more expensive in every area of the economy, they will slow the economy and kill industry. That is the reality of where their cap and trade taxing of oil will lead - to the downsizing and destruction of the private sector. The people will indeed suffer as these shmucks laugh in glee as Greenie here did and say, "there is nothing you can do about it. Ha, ha, so there....Think about that next time you open your purse. Think about it and suffer. Learn to live with it...." That is the way reality will go, unless America wakes up and removes the shmucks from ever holding power.

As for the cool Dinar news.. got a link on that? Goin lookin for it now, but a link would be good, please, Roger? :)

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 1:05 PM


Sara wrote:

GM wrote (his words in italics):

Research will bring many surprises. It always does. Who would have predicted the invention of the light bulb? The airplane? Very few.

But that was NOT the government inventing these products, it was private enterprise.

Where will the answers come from? Private enterprise won't do this. Its the role of government to fund the future. And the role of inventors is to invent the future. Private enterprise is run by practical people who are not dreamers.

Oh, private enterprise is run by people who are not dreamers? Who invented the airplane and light bulb? The government?

Business people make the existing world work, but can't create a new world. They don't have it in them. A new world will be created by the dreamers and tinkerers, not by most business people, and not by corporate suck-ups like Sara, who have no imagination.

At least I am in good company if I am with the inventors of the light bulb and airplane, you know, the "unimaginative' people who brought you light, computers, technology.. hey, was Bill Gates a government employee? Suprisingly.. not.

Once the future is created, and it's cheap, then even your average gutless, stupid politician will go along with it.

Yep, keep on bashing the "stupid" politicians.. your type only plays them for laughs and whatever cash you can bleed out of them for their insane and costly failures of projects anyway.

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 1:16 PM


Anonymous wrote:

Roger said: "Since then we have invested billions and billions in research for Cancer, Aids, Flu, you name it.

There will not be a cure for Cancer, Aids or Flu, because a cure means that the entity financed (fed) by the government will die."

Roger, you are looking at Cancer and Aids and Flu in the wrong way. People already have a cure: it's called prevention. The average American diet, I wouldn't feed to a pig, unless I didn't like the pig. Cancer is caused by Big Macs and most of what is on supermarket shelves and 7-11s. Most Americans don't know how to eat, or even live. Healthcare in the U.S. is a joke. The human body needs to be looked after for 90 years, if you want to live that long. There are "Blue Zones" around the world where people live longer than other people. All they do is eat a vegetable based diet, walk a lot, ride your bicycle, have a garden and work in it, and have a lot of friends, and be spiritual. Then you won't get cancer and will die in your bed at 90.

And the cure for AIDS is to stop screwing around. People are so idiotic they think they can screw everything in sight, and some magical cure will appear, to take away their disease. It's magical thinking, like Sara thinking a magical solution to energy problems will appear in the nick of time.

The cure for the flu is to have a strong immune system by a healthy lifestyle. Then your body will be able to fight it off naturally.

Idiotic Republicans and Stupid Democrats will tell you that you need to spend money on more healthcare technology to make you well. That's plain stupid, whether it's private or public healthcare. Healthcare comes from how you live your life. Technology won't save you, but if you are smart enough, you'll avoid a lot of diseases in the first place. All the idiots arguing over healthcare don't have a clue. Americans don't even live as long as most countries because our lifestyle is so horrible. We are fat, eat too much, don't move around enough. Private healthcare, or public healthcare wont' fix that.

There's no cure for stupid.

-- March 12, 2010 1:20 PM


GM wrote:

Sara said: "Yep, keep on bashing the "stupid" politicians.."

OK,... here goes: the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!

-- March 12, 2010 1:30 PM


Sara wrote:

GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!

Yet, these are the saints who will save us all by finding us all alternate fuels.. the ones with vision and imagination.. the ones who are the way of the future!

You are inconsistent. Politicians ARE the government. Read what you said in italics, then go back and read what you said about them leading the brave new way into the future for industry and energy technology instead of the private sector.

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 1:34 PM


GM wrote:

Sara said: "And they won't introduce their alternates until they use up what they are already selling. That is the way business works."

No, Sara, that is NOT the way business works. Oil companies don't need to use up all the oil in the world before they start selling alternatives. They could care less if the oil sits in the ground for the next million years and all the Arabs starve, as long as they can make money. As soon as an alternative appears, and it's cheaper than oil, to produce and sell, and they can make more money that way, they will drop oil faster than George W Bush can mispronounce a word.

-- March 12, 2010 1:46 PM


GM wrote:

Sara said: "GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!

Yet, these are the saints who will save us all by finding us all alternate fuels.. the ones with vision and imagination.. the ones who are the way of the future!

You are inconsistent. Politicians ARE the government. Read what you said in italics, then go back and read what you said about them leading the brave new way into the future for industry and energy technology instead of the private sector."

No....There is no inconsistency. Most politicians are idiots. Some are useful idiots. Others are useless idiots. I prefer to vote for useful idiots, and dislike useless idiots. Useful idiots at least know who to listen to, even if they couldn't come up with an idea themselves. Useless idiots fight good ideas and listen to other stupid people.

-- March 12, 2010 1:51 PM


Sara wrote:

GM said, "the reason I bash politicians, is that most of them are so stupid, they need 2 hands, a map and a flashlight, just to find their rectum!
And, "No....There is no inconsistency. Most politicians are idiots. Some are useful idiots. Others are useless idiots. I prefer to vote for useful idiots, and dislike useless idiots. Useful idiots at least know who to listen to, even if they couldn't come up with an idea themselves. Useless idiots fight good ideas and listen to other stupid people.

So the measure you use is their usefulness to you? If they "know who to listen to"? And they are stupid people if they don't? And idiots either way? Because it is pretty obvious who you think they should be listening to and using their governmental powers for.. on your behalf, instead of furthering the private sector responses to these challenges.

I suggest this is your real opinion and that your speaking of them as visionaries with great imaginations who will lead the world into a cleaner future is done by people like you only to suck up to them to get them to buy into your views so you can profit by it. Only with governmental help and coersion of the private sector can you leech and profit, by the misuse of governmental powers and unconstitutional intrusion into the private sector. The purpose of such hatred of politicians (reread the statement in italics above, "stupid.. can't find their rectum with a flashlight") is greed. Such persons as you do indeed PLAY the politicians they dispise for their own nefarious agenda and profit.

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 2:05 PM


GM wrote:

Sara, you are a natural born politician, even though your views don't appeal to me. You really have a way with words, and many similar people would agree with you, even though I find your views useless.

-- March 12, 2010 2:25 PM


Sara wrote:

Results of six provinces finalized – IHEC
March 12, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Results of parliamentary elections in six Iraqi provinces were finalized on a rate of 25% of the total vote in Iraq, according to a statement by the Independent High Electoral Commission on Friday.

“Work at the data center in the IHEC in Baghdad continued on Friday with intensive presence of media people and observers,” added that statement as received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

“The provinces included Babel (33.89%), Arbil (28.67%), Najaf (34.11%), Diala (17.49%), Salah al-Din (17.89%) and Missan (23%),” it read.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=128447

Too bad they aren't willing quite yet to publish those finalized results..

Sara.

PS I didn't find the article on forex possibilities for Iraq yet, Roger.. where'd you get that info?

-- March 12, 2010 2:34 PM


Sara wrote:

six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.

I guess the argument being given is that there IS fraud.. but it is not widespread or systemic and, overall, we can trust the results.
I disagree with the idea that it undermines the country to make sure the votes are counted correctly, however.
The politicians are MORE credible for being careful and questioning everything..
instead of blindly trusting and going along.. as they once did with anything Saddam said.
"What we see is the tip of an iceberg," he said.
Hmmm... widespread or not, that is the question.
Is it true that the Maliki adviser, "falsified nationwide records"??
Serious allegations, and ones Maliki can overcome only by stepping down if this man is found to have done so.
As I read in another article,

"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," President of the delegation Struan Stevenson told the European Parliament.

"It appears that massive efforts are going into attempts to deny victory to Mr Allawi and his secularist, nationalist Al-Iraqiya list, who clearly must have secured an outright victory in the polls when such blatant attempts at fraud are taking place," Stevenson added.

===

Poll fraud claims put Iraq at risk
Oliver August, Baghdad
From: The Times
March 13, 2010

THE threat of major violence loomed over Iraq last night as the country's leading opposition politician said there was widespread fraud in last week's elections.

Iyad Allawi told Western officials that aides to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had hidden ballot papers and falsified computer records in an effort to retain power.

"They are stealing the votes of the Iraqi people," his spokesman told a press conference.

The claims could trigger a fresh round of fighting and undermine the credibility of the next government as US troops are preparing to leave the country.

Full election results have yet to be announced, but Mr Allawi, a former prime minister, and Mr Maliki are vying for the top job. Partial results show both men doing well in their strongholds.

The Iraqi National Movement, the alliance led by Mr Allawi, has filed 30 complaints claiming voter fraud. Mr Maliki's State of Law coalition has threatened to sue him for defamation.

But several violations reported by Mr Allawi have been confirmed by diplomats and poll observers. Haider al-Abadi, a senior adviser to Mr Maliki, spent about an hour inside the election data entry centre on Wednesday, a violation of the election rules. Supporters of Mr Allawi claim the adviser falsified nationwide records.

On the same day, six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.

Mr Allawi claimed 250,000 soldiers were refused the chance to vote, and said an election monitor had found ballot papers with votes for Mr Allawi dumped in the garden of a polling station in the northern city of Kirkuk.

Munir al-Gafili, the head of Kirkuk city council and an Allawi supporter, showed nine discarded ballots at a press conference in Baghdad. "Every one of them is marked for Allawi," he said. "That is no coincidence." Western officials said fraud had definitely taken place, "some by Allawi and some against Allawi".

The UN has sent investigation teams to the provinces of Kirkuk and Ninevah in northern Iraq. But officials say that so far they do not see a pattern of systematic fraud.

Adnan Janabi, a former government minister and an Allawi supporter, claimed Mr Maliki was using the armed forces to intimidate opponents. He said Iraqi army units raided the homes of Allawi supporters this week. "They're trying to provoke the people," he said.

Mr Janabi claimed that voting by millions of Iraqi exiles - among whom Mr Allawi is popular - in Jordan, Syria and elsewhere, had been plagued by problems. "What we see is the tip of an iceberg," he said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/poll-fraud-claims-put-iraq-at-risk/story-e6frg6so-1225840206342

-- March 12, 2010 3:24 PM


Roger wrote:

Shibibi's statement of putting the Dinar on Forex...link..

Go to:

www.bi-me.com

scroll down to "Banking and Finance", and open up....

A very significant piece of information.

The plan is to take the Dinar out of the daily auction program,.... finally a smart move.

-- March 12, 2010 3:40 PM


Sara wrote:

Thanks, Roger. :)

-- March 12, 2010 3:56 PM


Sara wrote:

A Rabbi and a Priest were sitting in front of a church and they each had charity boxes in front of them to collect money. The church goers that were passing by couldn't believe the nerve of the rabbi, and purposely threw large sums of money into the priest's charity box to spite the rabbi. Finally one of the passer-by had sympathy on the rabbi, and advised him, "Go to a synagogue and collect there, you'll have more success." The Rabbi thanked the passer-by, and then turned to the priest and said, "You hear that, Yankel; he's telling us how to do business."

-- March 12, 2010 3:58 PM


Roger wrote:

Shibibi's statement is a statement taken in context with his report to IMF.

He describes that he will create an interbank exchange system, apparently outside the Iraqi border, to do the exchange rate for the Iraqi Dinar.

He's bragging a little bit, the system is already in place.

Any bank in the world that has got a phone line, is part of that system.

It was a little bit hard to imagine exactly what Shibibi had in mind from a techinical standpoint. But it sounded a little bit from his statement that he thought that the Dinar could still be controled in one fashion or the other.

This is pobably not a good idea if the intention is to control the currency.

Just by the act of letting banks outside of the Iraq border decide the currency exchange rate, ...well there are no other option other than just let the market decide. Maybe that is what he is saying...Shibibi have always been cryptic...

This, my friends is the very best scenario we could hope for.

It will take off a lot of headache from the persons responsible for the currency, like, if they want to do an internal RV, where a commitee, is deciding the rate.

The way this will probably go then is that it is let loose to a couple of "corresponding banks" in Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Dubai and so on.

Prospective buyers on the Forex market will start buying and selling the Iraqi Dinar.

The way it works, is that currencies are always traded in pairs, you can buy (go long) or sell (go short), so it doesn't matter if the curve is going up or down.

The broker always hold the opposite side of the trade, so if you sell, he buys.(he's getting paid by a small spread in value).

So even if you sell, what you do is borrowing from the broker, and sell it back to him, but he had to buy it in the first place, so when a new currecny is introduced, ...basically, everybody and his brother has to buy, in order to even be able to trade with the currency.

(Little bit technical there, but ok bear with me)

That will introduce a very sharp spike in currency value, an voala' no RV neccesary, were a commitee will be to blame for anything....it RV'd itelf.

The statement from Shibibi didt say WHEN this was suppose to take place, but it for sure is very very good news, and I might even conider scraping up what I have in the coffers and perhaps get me another million or two.

Alternatively, if you are trading in Forex, you might want to do some research of what dealer would take an Iraq Dinar trade.

Smaller currencies...you probably have to got to a very big broker for him to be interested in filling an order like that.

Most currencies that are traded are the big currencies, and as this would be a first introductory currency from a former wartorn country, it will probably be introduced "soft" with very little access to the trading at first, but getting bigger as it goes.

Any big company transfering funds are automatically on the Forex market, in fact when you yourself go to an airport ( and get ripped off) and exchange your money, you are a Forex participant.

What Shibibi is saying, is ....let the cat out of the bag.

So next thing to guess is, how much is the dinar actually worth?

Well the market will decide, but I think it will go to 10-15 cents of value pretty quick, and from there it will slowly rise to 3 maybe 4 Dollars depending on how good the development goes in Iraq.

I may be wrong, who knows, Dubai have an exchange rate of about 1/3 of the Dollar, while neighbouring Saudi and Kuwait is in the 3-4 Dollar range.

Either way, it will pay out handsomely, an it would be a very very good advice to hang onto the Dinar even after it has been released on Forex.

Also, expect a very choppy up and down exchange rate for the first couple of weeks, until it settles in the right range.

Whatever that range is....your guess is as good as mine.

God news anyhow, in fact very good news.

-- March 12, 2010 4:26 PM


Sara wrote:

Roger wrote: it would be a very very good advice to hang onto the Dinar even after it has been released on Forex.

Hmmm.. how long?
Gonna have to pray about that one.
But it does sound very positive, hopefully they follow through in a timely manner.
A real value to the Dinar would give the Iraqis their true buying power and cause them to be able to afford to buy things from outside the country. It would be a real help to the Iraqi standard of living. And, with oil development working as the engine for Iraq, they can deliver more and more services and expand their production sector. It sounds like a good deal for Iraqis.. and hopefully we won't do too shabbily with the Dinar speculation we have made. I'm just wondering how long to hold onto Dinar.. as we all know Iraq will prosper more and more as Saudi resources are decreasing.

It is a blessing to the world that Saddam is gone.. and that the world can have more cheap oil from Iraq to continue to run the thirsty world economy. That is, if the governments of the world don't go for destroying the good thing we have going by trying to put cheap oil out of business, and the world economy with it. All in the name of a trumped up altruism based on global junk science... to line the pockets of the green elite (Al Gore, anyone?).

Looking forward to the promised progress in Iraq.. and the fulfillment of their word in this promise to let it hit the forex. If Allawi gets in, I believe this will go. Maliki, he may scotch it as he tends to favor the holding of power by himself and his few.. as I posted before, he chooses to use oil for goods and bypass the consumer prosperity of his people. He has done so for a very long time now and we have watched the Iraqi Dinar languish. Hopefully this is a sign of change coming.. and is a result of pressure from those who wish the Iraqi people to prosper. I am continuing to pray for God's will to be done in Iraq and for her people, as I am sure God has their best interests at heart.

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 6:37 PM


GM wrote:

Roger, very good news, thanks. How long do you guess till the Dinar reaches it's full value?

-- March 12, 2010 6:47 PM


GM wrote:

Sara, alternative energy will be the biggest business opportunity of this century. When you make money on the Dinar, you could stick some of it in green energy, and make even more money.

-- March 12, 2010 6:51 PM


Sara wrote:

How the Iraqi elections will work..

Allawi or Maliki are still rival contenders for PM, and this notes that they hold about half the seats between them.
Quote:

"The prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, and his principal rival, Ayad Allawi, are on track to secure roughly half of the 325 seats between them."

More directly, the article states that they have about 80 seats each, Allawi and Maliki,
Quote:

"a very rough estimate would give State of Law (Maliki) and Iraqiya (Allawi) around 80 seats each in the 325‑seat parliament.."

Resulting in a combination "between State of Law (Maliki) and Iraqiya (Allawi) .. (and perhaps Goran), which could present a less sectarian image, but would need to resolve the conflicting prime-ministerial aspirations of Mr Maliki and Mr Allawi (perhaps with the latter becoming foreign minister)."

Perhaps the one not making the post of PM should be made foreign minister. And, in the event that allegations of fraud are insurmountable and it appears Maliki may appear to be making PM but many feel fraudulently, maybe Mr. Maliki could own up to the fraud which he is responsible for before God.. and maybe he could be humble enough to become foreign minister to prevent further crisis, since such a capitulation would be seen by the Iraqi people as a good thing and worthy of respect and honor - for the good of the country and its cohesion at this crucial time. As for this scenerio, I certainly am not sure the allegations of fraud are insurmountable at this time - yet - but this is what I was thinking would work for if they do get to that point.. certainly, as I posted earlier, the supposition is that fraud by Maliki's people was only necessary because otherwise Allawi would have won, and if that will not resolve itself so they can get along in parliament peacefully, then it will be necessary for some leeway to be given and this would work to resolve the crisis, if Maliki can set aside his own ambitions for the good of all.

Sara.
===

Iraq politics: Slow motion
March 12th 2010

FROM THE ECONOMIST INTELLIGENCE UNIT

As the first results start to dribble in from Iraq's general election it has become clear that earlier predictions of a long-drawn-out process of coalition-building were close to the mark. The prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, and his principal rival, Ayad Allawi, are on track to secure roughly half of the 325 seats between them. They will both now compete to win round the other blocs and parties, with a fallback option of joining forces. The deadline for forming a new government is three months from the certification of the final result—there is every likelihood that the negotiations will go down to the wire.

Within hours of the polls closing on March 7th many of the political blocs started to make exaggerated claims about their showing in the election. However, five days later the Independent High Election Commission (IHEC) had only issued initial results for five of the 18 provinces, based on a minority of votes cast. In Babil, south of Baghdad, Mr Maliki's State of Law list was leading with 43% of the vote, followed by the Iraqi National Alliance (INA) with 34% and Mr Allawi's Iraqiya, with 20%. In Najaf, another southern province, the three lists were on 48%, 42% and 8% respectively. Both of these results were based on a count of about 34% of votes cast. In Irbil, capital of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the Kurdistan Alliance, which groups together the two largest Kurdish parties, was leading with 67%, and the main challenger, Listi Goran (Change), captured 21.5%. Less detailed results, on a count of just 17% of votes cast, were released for two northern provinces, Salahadin and Diyala, showing Iraqiya ahead in both.

Exit poll

These results are too partial to draw firm conclusions in those provinces, let alone the country as a whole. However, they do fit relatively well with an exit poll produced by Ayn, a local organisation, across ten provinces. On the basis of that poll, and extrapolations for other provinces, a very rough estimate would give State of Law and Iraqiya around 80 seats each in the 325‑seat parliament, the INA 50 and the various Kurdish parties another 55 between them, with the remainder going to smaller parties, such as the cross-sectarian Unity of Iraq list and minority community representatives. A key question will be not only how many votes each of the coalitions and parties have won, but where and, by inference, from which sects those votes have come from.

Initial results for the whole country, on a count of 30% of votes cast, had been expected earlier in the week, but the announcement was repeatedly delayed by complaints about irregularities in the conduct of the election and because of a dispute about how to handle the votes cast for 55 candidates (over half from Mr Allawi's list, and one senior ally of Mr Maliki) who were disqualified on the day before the election thanks to members of the INA, who largely control the process of assessing whether candidates have or had associations with the Baath party. The candidates had been brought in to replace previous candidates who had also been disqualified, and the late disqualification meant that their names therefore appeared on the ballots and attracted votes. The IHEC's final election count is not expected to be released until at least March 18th, and there will undoubtedly be subsequent challenges before the Federal Supreme Court ratifies the results, probably in early April.

Long way to go

The process of forming a government is convoluted and could take months, as it did in 2005 and 2006. First, the parliament should convene within 15 days of the ratification of the results and elect a new speaker. It then has 30 days to elect a new president—who must secure either two-thirds of parliament's support or a simple majority in a run-off vote between the two most popular candidates. The current president, Jalal Talabani, is likely to remain in the post, although his position will be weaker given that his party, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, appears to have lost ground to a fellow Kurdish party, Listi Goran (Change).

Tariq al-Hashemi, a Sunni Arab in the Iraqiya coalition, has also expressed an interest in the presidency, and could be a serious contender if Iraqiya is one of the parties involved in forming the government. That process begins once the new president invites the largest bloc in parliament—which is likely to be either State of Law or Iraqiya—to nominate a prime minister within 15 days. The prime minister-designate will then have 30 days to name a cabinet, each member of which must be approved by parliament. In all, this process could take three months from the ratification of the election results, although it could take even longer, as constitutional deadlines have often been violated in the past. However, if two or more of the main electoral coalitions are able rapidly to form an alliance with a clear majority in parliament then they could speed up the process significantly.

The most likely combinations are between State of Law, the main Kurdish list and parts of the Iraqi National Alliance—essentially a continuation of the current government—or between State of Law and Iraqiya (and perhaps Goran), which could present a less sectarian image, but would need to resolve the conflicting prime-ministerial aspirations of Mr Maliki and Mr Allawi (perhaps with the latter becoming foreign minister).

http://viewswire.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=VWArticleVW3&article_id=%201655295950®ion_id=&country_id=1110000311&refm=vwCtry&page_title=Latest+analysis&fs=true&rf=0

-- March 12, 2010 7:31 PM


Sara wrote:

GM;

I will pray about investing in alternates with Dinar investment revenues. After all, alternate fuels will one day be the way of the future and so it will become a good venture for private citizens to invest into in the future for the winner in that market, and as you have pointed out, there is a lot of exciting technological innovations which are coming down the pike - I did appreciate those posts you contributed pointing to a few with potential and worth checking out. However, I do oppose the government putting any tax dollars into alternative energy as energy development should be done by the private sector and the government should not be competing with private individuals as a business player with taxpayer dollars. I keep a list of interesting investment opportunities and most certainly alternate energy - as well as new and innovative techniques for developing existing energy resources - are on it.
Thanks,

Sara.

-- March 12, 2010 7:48 PM


Roger wrote:

GM

When the Dinar reaches it's full value.

Well, first let it go on the Forex as mr Shibibi are describing. It's not there yet, this Dinar trail have been an up an down ride for quite some time, so I would say, just let that happen first.

After that, ...the full value, well, currency always have it's full value in that it has the value someone think it is worth, so when buyig or selling that currency, that is the value it is given.

I guess you mean, when the Dinar have reached as high as it will go, an then peaked and flattened out in that level?

Your guess is as good as mine my friend. I would however hang onto the Dinar and don't rush and cash out, because once on the market, it's value will reflect pretty much the production of Iraq. And it is bound to pick up as time goes.

I think that once it is set out, for an "interbank" exchange, it will get an opening price and go from there.

That report needs a little bit more study, Shibibi have always been very cryptic and one thing anyone in a Central Bank are, they are scared of "specualtion".

So, possible Mr Shibibi has to be clear with IMF in his report to them, but still tried to say it in such a cumbersome way that any layman wouldn't understand where he was heading.

Doing his report, he probably had to wressel pretty much with the words he was using, knowing that he need to tell IMF in no uncertain terms, but at the same time don't want "specualtion" on the currency.

I will study the document a little bit more and be back later with a more indepth analysis, if I can squeese one out of it.

(Hey....I'm pretty good in BS'ing....no one knows the difference anyway)

Rob N. reminds me of the text in Jethro tull song Aqualung. Pretty grim picture you painted up, doing that dumpster diving.

-- March 12, 2010 11:11 PM


Roger wrote:

Hi All,

Have read this pretty awesom report again.

The original blog was from an article, but the article had only bits and pieces from the original document.

I spent some time reading through that document and it is a very interesting document.

The document is a "Letter of Intent", written by the President of Central Bank of Iraq, to the IMF, dated the 8th of Mars -10

There are page after page with the usual BS, numbers, projections ,analysis and all that, but the 638 Carat diamond is in Chapter III section B Paragraph 26.

-" TO IMPROVE THE FUNCTIONING OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE AUCTIONS, WE PLAN TO DEVELOP ORGANIZED EXCHANGE MARKETS OUTSIDE THE CENTRAL BANK, INCLUDING AN INTERBANK FOREIGN EXCHANGE MARKET. OUR AIM IS TO ESTABLISH A FORWARD MARKET IN IRAQI DINARS IN THE NEAR FUTURE."

That is his exact words.

This both answers questions, and at the same time poses a couple of other questions.

He is saying it, but in the same breath he is not saying it. He is so darn cryptic that guy.

-"To improve the functioning of foreign exchange actions,...." Implies that the Central Bank will be in control over the exchange rate and still do auctions....but in the very next sentence he is saying....-"we plan to develop organized exchange markets outside the Central Bank , ....that sentence is in direct collision course with his first statement, where he now describe that the Iraqi Dinar will be put on a market, and if it is, then the market will determine the exchange rate, not the Central Bank.

Then he goes on and reinforce the last sentence....-"including an interbank foreign exchange market"

Then he reinforces it a third time.....-"Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi Dinars in the near future."

My take is that Mr Shibibi have to be careful with his words and make sure he says what he need to say to IMF, while at the same time trying to cover up that the Iraqi Dinar is about to go up the roof.

Clevely hidden by the way, very hard to find, and a nightmare to "decrypt".

Any Market is defined by a needs, wants, and availability.

Any market will, in it's exchange with whatever goods it has to offer, may it be tomatoes, gasoline , carrots or Iraqi Dinar be a balance between where the buyer and seller can meet and agree on a price.

Othewise it is not a market.

..."develop exchange market OUTSIDE the Central Bank"...

That is a frank statement that the market will decide, not the Central Bank. Here he describe the function especially to be outside of the Central Bank.

....incluing an interbank foreign exchange market...

That is pretty much a word for word basic definition of Forex, that's all Forex is, an interbank system where you buy and sell currency , and that is a market....can't say it more exact.

-"Our goal is to establish a forward market in Iraqi Dinars in the near future."

"Forward market", an easily accessable market, not a hidden or behind closed doors...easy to buy and sell...like....may I suggest...Forex....

Here is the words I really like.......-"in the near future".

But hold on, I've been in Iraq, I have a clue about a few of those things.

Counted on an Arabic wrist watch, ..."in the near future", means: "later", or "whenever",...or "when we get to it",...or "when we get an order to do it",...or ....well you've got the idea.

It is a way for those guys to count time, and it i about 8 to 12 times longer than the western expectancy.

I would say ...fall...late fall sometime....well it is their idea of ..-"in the near future", not yours and mine idea of it.

Either way, I read Forex, and THAT, is the best of all projected Iraq Dinar scenarios.

Any other take????

-- March 13, 2010 6:20 AM


Roger wrote:

Dinar on the Forex,

Not too bad of an idea for Iraq.

Forex moves 3 Trillion Dollars worth of currenies every day. It's a lot of Mulah, an that involves everything from speculators to funds to big companies purchases, investments or any other money transactions.

Iraq will probably attract fund managers attention as soon as the Iraqi Dinars get on the block with the rest of the guys.

A fundmanager is both interested in a currencys spot price, but his main objective is to place his money somewhere, where you get high interest.

The usual routine is to go on the market, and against leverage,( leverage means if you have 1:100 in leverage, you can buy 100 times more money, than what you have) buy a currency with very low interet rate. That could be Dollar, or Yen.

Lets say he buys Yen, now he turn around and with those Yen, buys Iraq Dinars.

They are deposited in Iraq, and now it will get 7% interest on those money.

He may hold it there for a half, a full or maybe two years.

The fund will then profit from the difference in interest between Yen and Iraqi Dinar.

So all Iraq has to do, is to hold their interest rate high, and that will attract incoming capital into Iraq.

Banks that are sitting on a high liquidity will be much more able to do what they do best, borrow those money to investors for projects, houses, or whatever in Iraq.

So in this way, the cash goes to Iraq, they can work with the money in the meanwhile, as they are paying only 7% against that they can use a couple of billions, in liquidity.

Yes Billions are traded frequently and daily on Forex. (The insider slang for trading a Billion is a "yard".)

That is the sizes of the liquidity that will in this scenario flow into Iraq, add to that, their future oil income, and it will be a pretty rosy place after a while.

-- March 13, 2010 7:06 AM


Roger wrote:

Hi All,

This is my last blog for tonight, ...

...if I only can remember what it was about....

I know it was extremely important...

it's a life or death, type, info....

what was it....

-- March 13, 2010 7:12 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq's Nuri Maliki takes slender lead over rivals
13/03/2010

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki took a slender lead over his rivals on Friday, preliminary results from the country's general election showed, as opposition blocs alleged blatant fraud.

Maliki faces a strong challenge from former premier Iyad Allawi, whose secular Iraqiya bloc has emerged as the strongest challenger to the incumbent's hopes of retaining his post.

Initial figures from four of Iraq's 18 provinces released on Thursday showed a split between the two rival contenders for the top job.

Both blocs claimed to have made a strong showing nationwide, based on their own internal estimates, with Iraqiya claiming to have won 90 seats in the 325-member parliament, while State of Law said it had taken around 100.

The results released so far represent less than a third of votes cast.

Complete results are expected on March 18 and the final ones -- after any appeals are dealt with -- will come at the end of the month.

Analysts have predicted protracted coalition building, as no single grouping is expected to win the 163 seats necessary to form a government on its own.

Iraqiya has alleged fraud during Sunday's polls in favour of State of Law, a charge dismissed by the latter bloc as exaggerated.

"There has been clear and flagrant fraud," charged Intisar Allawi, a senior Iraqiya candidate and relative of the former prime minister.

She said Iraqiya's own election observers had found ballot papers in rubbish dumps in the northern disputed province of Kirkuk.

But Hassan Sinaid, a senior State of Law candidate, described those claims as "exaggerated."

According to Saad Rawi, another election official, IHEC had so far received 2,025 complaints.

Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.

http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2010\03\03-13\zsubz\912.htm&dismode=x&ts=13/03/2010%2011:00:11%20Õ

Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.

A dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count.. that should be interesting.
With Maliki claiming more seats than Allawi.. it will be interesting to see if "widespread fraud" can be substantiated, and what then if it is?

Sara.

-- March 13, 2010 9:34 AM


Sara wrote:

Maliki leads in early Iraq vote tally
March 13, 2010

BAGHDAD — A coalition led by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki was winning in the all-important capital and a Shiite province in the south, according to a partial tally of election results released Saturday.

If the Baghdad trend continues, the results would be a substantial boost to Maliki and his chances to retain the prime minister's post. Baghdad accounts for 70 of the parliament's 325 seats and would go a long way toward deciding who will be tasked with forming a government.

Election officials Saturday also announced that the prime minister's coalition was leading in Karbala, a Shiite province in southern Iraq where he has been battling his former political allies, the Iraqi National Alliance, a Shiite religious coalition with ties to Iran.

With the partial Baghdad results and the Karbala tally, the prime minister is now ahead in five of nine provinces where early results have been released. The Iraqiya coalition lead by Maliki's secular rival, Ayad Allawi, leads in two provinces, while the Iraqi National Alliance is ahead in one.

A Kurdish coalition, as expected, is ahead in Irbil in northern Iraq's autonomous Kurdish region.

The partial Baghdad results show Maliki's State of Law coalition with almost 159,000 votes compared to about 108,000 for the INA. Allawi's Iraqiya coalition was in third with about 105,000 votes.

It was not clear which of the capital's neighborhoods were included in the count and whether the results were coming from across Baghdad, from the Shiite-dominated eastern part of the city or the Sunni-dominated western neighborhoods.

Results from the primarily Shiite-side of the city would likely benefit Maliki or his main Shiite rivals, the INA, while results from the Sunni side could spell a boost for Iraqiya, which has drawn on Sunni support in many provinces.

It was also not clear exactly what percentage of the votes had been counted so far.

The results portend what is likely to be a close race between State of Law, Iraqiya and the INA. No one coalition is expected to win an outright majority, forcing whoever wins the most seats to reach out to others to cobble together a government.

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-iraq-election14-2010mar14,0,4459893.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews+%28L.A.+Times+-+Top+News%29

-- March 13, 2010 9:47 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara and all,

Seems like the southern provinces have Malakis support, and Allawi is trailing as it stands now.

I think Allawi is the better choice for Iraq, but wonder if it will do any difference for the IQD?

Sara, I have detected your suspicion that if Malaki will win, he might purposely hold back the development of the Dinar.

He may be the lesser candidate (in my view) but I have no clue as to what clout he can bring to CBI or IMF in case he intentionally will hold the Dinar back.

My take is that this (the IQD) is something that will develop in spite of Malakis possible intent.

Most probably he have already got a copy of the CBI report, and he most probably have got it even before it was sent, and I can not see any sign of objection on Malakis part (there might be, but that is behind the scene in that case)

I just don't think that hMalaki has any bigger objection based on, ...well...frankly, I don't think he understand this in the first place.

A possible scenario migh be that now during the election, and until a new government is formed, the whole political platform in Iraq is weakened and in limbo, CBI will take the opportunity to just go ahead with its plan and hurrily put it in place, so wether it will be Malaki, or Allawi, the development of the Dinar is an "in facto" issue, when they start their new regime.

That is all a scenario that is based on the assumption that there is one intent in CBI, and a contrary intent, present or up and coming, on the issue from one or more parties of the Iraqi poitical scene.

Sara, as a side note, I had an old e-mail address and sent you an e-mail, don't know if it still works.

R

-- March 13, 2010 8:30 PM


Sara wrote:

That article Roger is talking about:

===

'Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi dinars in the near future,' say finance officials
Source: BI-ME with Reuters , Author: BI-ME staff
Posted: Fri March 12, 2010

IRAQ. Iraq plans to establish an interbank foreign exchange market and dinar forward market and to step up its treasury bill activity in 2010 to help plug continuing budget deficits and foster treasury and foreign exchange markets, the Central Bank and Finance Ministry said in a submission to the IMF.

Iraq aims to develop foreign exchange markets outside the framework of dollar auctions currently conducted by the Central Bank, a letter of intent submitted to the IMF for a US$3.6 billion standby arrangement said.

Iraq said it would not return to a budget surplus until 2012.

"As our financing needs in 2010 will still be substantial, we will step up our efforts to mobilize domestic financing through the Treasury bill market," Iraq's Central Bank head and finance minister wrote.

"To that end, we will conduct regular auctions, and refrain from cancellations, while allowing interest rates to be determined by the market. This will have additional benefits by determining a benchmark interest rate, while the development of a secondary market for treasury bills will allow banks to improve their liquidity management."

"They are going to shift to building a local market, they have ample cash, loan-deposit ratios are very low and they will benefit from oil,"Turker Hamzaoglu, emerging market economist at BoA-Merrill Lynch, told Reuters.

"They have to develop a domestic bond market but it's still baby steps, it's still too early, it's not even a frontier market," he said, adding that Gulf Arab and Lebanese investors could be interested in Iraqi domestic paper.

Central Bank Governor Sinan al-Shibibi and Finance Minister Bayan Jabor said in the letter to the IMF that the country planned to introduce a sales tax, as a precursor to a Value Added Tax, "in the coming years".

Iraq's gross domestic product expanded by 4% in 2009 compared with almost 10% the year before, their submission reported. GDP growth would rise to almost 7% this year and 7.5%-8% in 2011 and 2012, they said.

That improvement would be rooted in an increase in Iraqi oil output to 3.1 million barrels per day by 2012, from around 2.5 million bpd now, and exports of 2.5 million bpd, compared to just over 2 million bpd now.

That outlook might be conservative following the signing of 10 multibillion-dollar deals with global oil firms to develop Iraq's vast reserves. If all the deals work out, Iraqi oil capacity could soar to 12 million bpd in six to seven years.

"The CBI will continue to be independent in the pursuit of its policy objectives. The CBI’s monetary and exchange rate policies will continue to be aimed at keeping inflation under control and safeguarding international reserves," the submission said

The banking sector is in urgent need of reform to foster financial intermediation and enable banks to contribute to the development of a strong private sector. With the help of the World Bank and other international agencies, Iraq has developed a banking sector reform strategy, it added.

"Iraq is committed to strengthening the management of international reserves by moving ahead with the implementation of new reserves management guidelines that were adopted in early August 2008. Iraq will follow the guidelines to diversify currency composition and establish appropriate duration and credit risk, build capacity for risk analysis, and work towards establishing a dealing room".

The IMF submission said Iraq's Central Bank planned to create a foreign exchange market outside the framework of regular dollar auctions now conducted by the bank. The bank uses the auctions to set the exchange rate, which has been held at 1,170 dinars per dollar for many months.

"To improve the functioning of foreign exchange auctions, we plan to develop organized exchange markets outside the central bank, including an interbank foreign exchange market," it said.

"Our aim is to establish a forward market in Iraqi dinars in the near future."

RELATED ARTICLES

IMF approves US$3.6 billion stand-by loan for Iraq

'The Iraqi dinar has all reasons to grow stronger,' says Prime Minister

Iraq oil exports at highest level since 1

http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=45051&t=1&c=61&cg=4&mset=1011

-- March 13, 2010 10:18 PM


Sara wrote:

Roger wrote: Sara, I have detected your suspicion that if Malaki will win, he might purposely hold back the development of the Dinar.

You have discerned correctly, Roger. I believe if Mr. Maliki were open to the development of the Dinar, he would already have done it. I believe he is the holdup for the Dinar finding a market valuation. I hope I am wrong and you are right that greater forces than this one man's view will prevail. But he has a lot of power and uses it, I believe, to prevent the Dinar's development.

The voting happened in good faith, the count should also be in good faith. If there is proof of such fraud being widespread or significant enough (changing national vote tallies by zeros, etc), I feel Maliki should own up to the shenanigans of his own people and step down. He should take responsibility for those who have committed fraud for him or in his name, to obtain for him the power he wants. That is my view. His being disqualified by fraud means the next candidate takes the PM position - that is Allawi. But we will see if that view can prevail in the strange and often irrational parallel universe politicians live in - a universe where the normal laws and morality in our universe often don't seem to apply, at least for a while.

I sincerely hope your scenerio is correct when you speculate, A possible scenario might be that now during the election, and until a new government is formed, the whole political platform in Iraq is weakened and in limbo, so the CBI will take the opportunity to just go ahead with its plan and hurrily put it in place, so whether it will be Malaki, or Allawi, the development of the Dinar is a "de facto" issue, when they start their new regime.

I like that scenerio.. because I believe it bypasses what I believe to be the block to the Dinar's development - Maliki. But whatever way it goes, I pray God's will. Certainly there is some intent to get the Dinar developing by Shabibi.. if only those blocking it (Maliki included) can be removed from blocking the way to Iraq's prosperity in the future.

Sara.

-- March 13, 2010 10:40 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara and all,

I have noticed lately that the issue of Dinar , and exchangerate, is now almost always incorporated into most statements and reports, while in the past this was almost a dead subject.

The only pattern we had in the past was that some politician said something and it was almost immediately retracted by some other power. CBI didnt say anything at all, other than it's normal jargong in reports.

So I can conclude that in the past, anyone bringing up the Dinar issue, it was almost an irritant, but now, they are propagating that issue themselves.

You are right, that article is based on the report.

I noticed though that the aticle cut up the sentences from the report, and scrambled it together on different places, while in the "Letter of Intent" that Mr Shibibi sent to IMF, all those sentences was in one chapter, that makes another meaning to it.

My take is that the article is prepared by the public contact in CBI, and he made sure that it got scrambled up together with boring statistics and production figures.

The way it was actually written in the report to IMF, is the way I wrote it on my earlier blog in block letters.

All that you highlighted in the article was one separate paragraph.

Nothing is stranger than the truth.

Well, now it's official, they said they are going to do it, so.....I might get me another million or so.

R

-- March 13, 2010 11:46 PM


Seadesk wrote:

Hey all,

Back from what seems like "forever" on the road.

Alaska is cold. Cheese and rice!

I really enjoy reading this forum. I just don't have that much to say or add. I'm a student taking lessons.

As of last Thursday, Mr. Issa is on "R & R," so I'm not sure my first 2010 ISX purchases (actually submitted last Thursday) are going through tomorrow as I'd hoped. Usually I just email requests only to him. We'll see...

Anyway, I bought more Warka, Land Transport, Baghdad Soft Drinks and Al-Badia. As you can guess, I'm betting on alot'ta drinking (soda) and driving to get stuff moved around Iraq in the next few years.

Roger, glad you're home and glad you're writing. Keep it up.

Peace.

Earl

-- March 14, 2010 1:00 AM


Sara wrote:

Too close to call, still.

===

Iraq releases, then withdraws, early Baghdad poll results
Baghdad |Saturday, 2010

Iraq's electoral commission Saturday released, then quickly withdrew, early results from Baghdad that showed Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's coalition leading in the capital.

Al-Sumaria television reported that the electoral commission had said the early results from Baghdad, which will be represented by 68 out of 325 seats in the new parliament, released earlier were "unofficial" and "should be discarded."

Official, preliminary results from Badghad would be released later in the day, officials from Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said.

Iraqi politicians from across the political spectrum have criticised the slow and chaotic process of counting the votes as raising questions about the tally's fairness.

Results announced earlier pointed to a slim lead for al-Maliki's State of Law coalition over former prime minister Ayad Allawi's Iraqi List, with an alliance of mostly religious Shiite parties close behind.

http://www.netindia123.com/showdetails.asp?id=1464170&cat=World&head=Iraq+releases%2C+then+withdraws%2C+early+Baghdad+poll+results+%28Lead%29

-- March 14, 2010 1:31 AM


Roger wrote:

Hi Earl,

I have a lul now, when being back from the land of Camels and hooded women.

....and of course I am immediately drawn right back into T&B.

Never been in Alaska, but heard you can do gold prospecting there about three or four months of the year.

I am born above the Arctic circle so I have an idea what temperatures you are experiencing there.

There have been some exciting developments the very last days, and it turned out to be the best (in my opinion) solution to everything.

CBI have anounced that the Dinar will go on sale on Forex......as the Presient of CBI says...-"very soon".

I am checking into opening up a Forex account, and will do some more research of what dealer are buying and selling IQD's once they hit the market.

I want to be in, with a Forex order with some leverage, when they open up, I anticipate a value spike straight up.

When they open up it means that the IQD will be an accepted currency for the rest of the worlds banking community, so exchange can therefore take place in banks according to current spot price, as with any other bank that are running a currency desk.

Read up a little bit on this latest development, it is truly a break.

Your ISX purchases seem to be a good choice, and ...oh before I forget, there is also an election wrapping up in Iraq, now...a lot of changes.

Sara have done a great job covering that aspect.

(Sara ....huuuuuug)

So Earl, get in from the cold and read all the good news.

R

-- March 14, 2010 1:43 AM


Sara wrote:

At this point, quote, "the figures are not representative and it is too close to call.

===

Iraq vote count too close to call

With early results representing only a fraction of the vote and no figures in from areas like Basra, overall results from Iraq's general elections were too close to call six days after the March 7 vote.

By Saturday, preliminary tallies from 10 of Iraq's 18 provinces were in.

State of Law coalition led by Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq's prime minister, is leading among the three top rivals.

The cross-sectarian, secularist Iraqiya list headed by Iyad Allawi, the former prime minister, is running second, and the Iraqi National Alliance (INA), a rival to al-Maliki among Iraq's Shia majority, is a close third.

The powerful Kurdish parties led as expected in Erbil.

The Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said that just 18 per cent of the votes have been counted in Baghdad so far.

Also, as the results are not drawn equally from across the city, the figures are not representative.

Of the votes counted, 75 per cent were from Risafa, which is a predominiately Shia district and 25 per cent comes from Karkh, which is more Sunni and mixed.

Caution over Baghdad

Hazem al-Nuaimi, a political analyst, cautioned against reading too much into any early results from Baghdad as the city is now largely segregated along sectarian lines.

"It is clear that the final votes will be distributed among the blocs closely," Nuaimi said. "This means there will no winning bloc with a big margin."

Baghdad is worth twice as many seats in Iraq's next parliament as the next largest province.

The parliament has a total of 325 seats.

The votes tallied so far suggest weeks or months of horse-trading ahead to form a government and pick a prime minister.

Allegations of fraud may also unsettle the scenario.

Iraqiya has charged that ballots were dumped in the garbage, nearly a quarter of a million soldiers were denied voting rights and electoral commission workers fiddled with vote counts.

After the last elections in 2005, sectarian violence erupted as politicians took months to form a government.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/03/201031317039231784.html

"It is clear that the final votes will be distributed among the blocs closely,"

Perhaps they will find it to be "close enough" that they will end up with a new Prime Minister - Allawi instead of Maliki.
That would end the wrangling and concern over fraud and "fiddled with vote counts" - wouldn't it?

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 1:45 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

I guess someone got embarrased for tossing votes or having chimpansees at the voting computers, so they quickly restored dignity and respect, and are making a new announcement based on "new" facts.

Cheese, soda, crackers...anyone???

R

-- March 14, 2010 1:47 AM


Sara wrote:

Roger;

If it makes them respect the will of the people, more power to em.
They have proof of fraud, and one fellow there says it is widespread (proof to follow).
The only recourse or action they should be resorting to.. is making sure the will of the Iraqi people counts.
Unless Obama and this current Iraqi Administration wants to have more war and bloodshed.
How stupid and unnecessary.
Let's hope they grow wings and turn into complete angels..
counting the votes fairly and giving Maliki the longed for departure that non-Dinar RVer deserves.

Hugggg back, btw. :)
Hi Earl.. pull up a chair and sit in.

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 3:00 AM


Sara wrote:

Summary of vote fraud allegations

Meanwhile in Brussels, Struan Stevenson, chairman of the European Parliament's delegation for relations with Iraq, said he would provide a dossier on "widespread fraud" during the vote count to the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.

http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2010\03\03-13\zsubz\912.htm&dismode=x&ts=13/03/2010%2011:00:11%20Õ

===

The accusations came a day after the European Delegation for Relations with Iraq reported that “blatant attempts are underway to defraud the Iraqi people of their true democratic choice in last weekend’s elections.”

"I understand that very high officials from the Iraqi Electoral Commission have been caught cheating by entering false data on the election computer," President of the delegation Struan Stevenson told the European Parliament.

"It appears that massive efforts are going into attempts to deny victory to Mr Allawi and his secularist, nationalist Al-Iraqiya list, who clearly must have secured an outright victory in the polls when such blatant attempts at fraud are taking place," Stevenson added.

http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10409346

===

But several violations reported by Mr Allawi have been confirmed by diplomats and poll observers. Haider al-Abadi, a senior adviser to Mr Maliki, spent about an hour inside the election data entry centre on Wednesday, a violation of the election rules. Supporters of Mr Allawi claim the adviser falsified nationwide records.

On the same day, six clerks at the main election centre were fired for offences committed while inputting voter tallies.

Mr Allawi claimed 250,000 soldiers were refused the chance to vote, and said an election monitor had found ballot papers with votes for Mr Allawi dumped in the garden of a polling station in the northern city of Kirkuk.

Munir al-Gafili, the head of Kirkuk city council and an Allawi supporter, showed nine discarded ballots at a press conference in Baghdad. "Every one of them is marked for Allawi," he said. "That is no coincidence."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/poll-fraud-claims-put-iraq-at-risk/story-e6frg6so-1225840206342

Serious allegations indeed.
Perhaps it can be remedied by giving Allawi the "outright victory in the polls" he "must have secured", as Mr. Stevenson said?
After all, aren't we all after the same thing.. the truth and a victory for what is right.. concerning the Iraqi people?

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 3:20 AM


Sara wrote:

Lastly, this one, published: March 11, 2010, which states:

===

Mr. Allawi’s coalition said it had filed dozens of complaints with the commission.

At the evening news conference, Iraqiya members struck at the heart of Iraq’s election process, claiming that workers at the state election commission, who have been entering data in to computer systems, were caught fiddling with Iraqiya’s tally. Mr. Janabi said that United Nations monitors caught the tampering, and notified Iraqiya.

Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/world/middleeast/12iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Three workers, they said, were caught excising a zero from the end Iraqiya vote tallies for certain areas.

A zero?

Like.. the difference between 1,000 and 100? Or 5,000 and 500?

Big difference in a close race like this.

And remember, SIX workers were laid off for this kind of shenanigan (see previous post).

Certainly dropping a zero is an unnecessary thing to do.. unless Allawi was winning hands down, as Stevenson alleged.

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 4:10 AM


Roger wrote:

Iraqis are getting there but are not there just yet.

Their first loyalty is to their Mullah.
Their second loyalty is to their Sheik and their clan.
Their third loyalty is to their secular belonging. Shiite, Sunni etc.

As their fourth loyalty....then, they may say that they are Iraqis.

So if they are voting for Iraq, the members of the election process may very well do things that favors their Mullah, Sheik or secular belonging. Their first, second and third loyalty.

They haven't really got it just yet.....no , no no mr Johnson, you can't erase Kentucky from the voting just because someone in Kentucky stole a goat from you, and the guy that ran into your car last year was also from Kentucky, you can not disqualify Kentucky Mr Johnson......

....but they're getting there.

I just hope that this will not grow into such a volume, that it will severely impede the integrity of the process...

Ok Iraqis, you can do it.......

Pass the popcorn....

-- March 14, 2010 6:00 AM


Roger wrote:

Zero lop.

One more denial.

The deputy President of The Central Bank of Iraq, denied, when the question was asked at an economic seminar at the University of Karbala, that there are any plans to delete three zeros from the currency.

It got some presscoverage, but it is untrue, he said.

-- March 14, 2010 10:01 AM


Sara wrote:

Is there Significant Fraud?

Roger and Board;

I was thinking about the brave Iraqi people, some of whom gave their very lives to vote, standing in line to make a difference to the direction of their country of Iraq. If many of the vote talliers (and six were caught, so how many more are there) took their votes and discarded them.. like 9,000 voted but only 900 got counted.. so that over EIGHT THOUSAND votes were "lost".. how fair is that? How RIGHT is that? It sure sounds SIGNIFICANT to me. And it appears that in every case it was Allawi's list which was discounted and Maliki's which they falsely attempted to make win. Maliki can deny he is behind it til he is blue in the face, but the fact remains that it is his people or people who are inspired by him who are the ones behind this, and he should own that the fraudulent effects which he is responsible for inspiring. After all, if they can say that it was not "widespread" - then they can discount the true votes of the people.. by the thousands and certify Maliki falsely.

Again, I ask.. is it SIGNIFICANT fraud.. and it appears to me that yes, it is. Can we get this "Significant Fraud" and deal with it BEFORE it causes a fraudulent result to be certified? Or is the truth that these corrupt politicans have learned how to use corrupt activist people who will act on their behalf to overcome the will of the Iraqi people?

There are now over 2,000 allegations of fraud in the Iraqi election which does give a person pause for thought as to whether things are truly progressing righteously and honestly. Certainly dropping a few "zeros" could disenfranchise thousands. Aren't they adopting our system? And, is this a crack in the wall of how they are implementing that system of how ballots are counted.. one which uses politically "bought" workers? How can we tell if they just keep sweeping these thousands of allegations under the rug?

An article yesterday, March 13, 2010, states, quote:

===

Allegations of fraud also have plagued the ballot tally. The electoral commission said more than 2,000 complaints had been received as of Saturday but it gave no specifics, saying only that they would be investigated.

"We should confess that some people have turned their back on these parties because they were disappointed by the performance of inefficient officials linked to religious parties," al-Zamili said.

Many experts have noted the rejection of nationalist, non-religious coalitions reflects Iraqi frustration with years of sectarian fighting as well as frustration over the past four years of religious parties to improve much needed government services.

"The voters have shown that they are fed up with the religious parties that failed to improve their life," said Nabil Salim, a political science professor at Baghdad University.

Iraqiya is led by one of al-Maliki's predecessors, former Premier Ayad Allawi, who is also Shiite. However, Iraqiya has attracted Sunnis who have similarly rejected their own religiously based politicians but remain suspicious of al-Maliki's continued, if lessened, ties to Iran.

Iraqiya officials kept up a drumbeat Saturday of fraud accusations - including discarded ballots and the failure of some provincial ballot boxes to be delivered to the counting centre in Baghdad - that they alleged may have cost them votes.

"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them," said Iraqiya spokeswoman Maysoun al-Damlouji.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=w12612414

"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them,"

Is that too much to ask? With over two thousand allegations including the failure of entire ballot boxes full of votes to be delivered to the counting centre, I certainly hope that the truth will prevail as well.

The article notes some are, quote, "suspicious of al-Maliki's continued, if lessened, ties to Iran."

Does this show us who could possibly be helping with the fraud to make Maliki to win - Iran. The Iranians must have known that the people of Iraq are, quote, "fed up with the religious parties that failed to improve their life." They would understand the reality that an outright radical cleric like Sadr will not appeal to the Iraqi people. So could that knowledge be inspiring them toward helping to get Maliki into power because he is "closely tied" to Iran? Certainly, Maliki looks from the standpoint of Iran to be the best deal of the two.. but what of the will of the Iraqi people?

"Our stance is that there were violations and we want the truth about them,"

Instead of just letting those six poll workers go.. shouldn't they be asking them questions about those who motivated them to falsify results? And the ballot boxes which never arrived.. who was responsible to bring them to the counting center.. can they be detained and questioned? Isn't this an issue of national security? Or are all the national security services likewise ideologically "bought" by a foreign power seeking to overthrow the will of the Iraqi people?

I certainly wish people understood that a vote count can change the direction or course of history for an entire people and nation.. and that it is a matter of national security. It should be dealt with as such.

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 1:57 PM


Sara wrote:

1st LD: Iraq's secular bloc leads in Anbar province: electoral commission
Mar, 14, 2010 09:39 AM - Xinhua News Agency (China)

BAGHDAD, Mar 14, 2010 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- The secular bloc led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi was leading in the preliminary results of parliamentary elections in Iraq's western province of Anbar, the electoral commission said Sunday.

The Iraqia secular bloc won 122,195 votes in the Sunni province of Anbar, while the Sunni Accord Front garnered 22,546, the Iraqi Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said.

The results are representing 58 percent of votes in the province, it said.

On March 7, an estimated 62.4 percent of more than 18 million eligible voters cast their ballots in some 8,920 polling centers across the country to elect the 325-seat Iraqi Council of Representatives out of some 6,300 candidates.

http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10411808

122,195 to 22,546.. with 58 percent votes counted.. quite a walloping.
If such a result were widespread.. what strategy could be employed for it to be overcome?
Discarding ballot boxes, altering the tallies by dropping zeros off the end, discarding ballots for Allawi into a field, perhaps?

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 2:13 PM


Sara wrote:

QUOTE from article below:

"For the Iranians, maintaining a compliant government in Baghdad is a crucial matter of national security"

(end quote)

So.. Maybe the Iranians "bought" election workers who did the fraud to the Iraqi people's votes with literally millions of dollars?
Oh, what it is to have a weak leader and appeaser in the WH.. to international politics.
They just let them do this.. they are truly "weak" on more than just US national security..
they are weak on helping to keep the national security of Iraq.

===

Tehran's Vote Buying in Iraq
By David Ignatius
February 25, 2010

WASHINGTON -- Iran is conducting what U.S. officials say is a broad covert-action campaign to influence Iraq's elections next month, pumping money and other assistance to its allies. The best way to counter this assault, American officials have decided, is by exposing it publicly.

The most direct criticism of Iran's meddling has come from Gen. Ray Odierno, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq. In meetings with reporters during a visit to Washington last week, he focused on the role played by Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi who lobbied the Bush administration to invade Iraq in 2003 and is now alleged to be working closely with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).

Odierno has also briefed top Iraqi leaders in Baghdad on U.S. intelligence reports about the Iranian campaign. A source provided me with an unclassified summary of Odierno's briefing, which included the following allegations:

"-- Iran provides money, campaign materials, and political training to various individual candidates and political parties (in Iraq).

"-- Iran interferes in Iraq's political process, urging alliances that not all Iraqi politicians favor, in an effort to consolidate power among parties supported by Iran. For example ... Ahmed Chalabi met with IRGC Quds Force Commander Qassem Soleimani and Iranian Foreign Minister (Manouchehr) Mottaki in late November to discuss" merger of two slates of Shiite candidates backed by Iran.

"-- Iran supports de-Baathification efforts engineered by Ahmed Chalabi for the purpose eliminating potential obstacles to Iranian influence. Chalabi is also interested in Iran's assistance in securing the office of Prime Minister.

"-- According to all-source intelligence, Ahmed Chalabi visited Iran at least three times since last year. Additionally, he met with key Iranian leaders in Iraq on at least five occasions."

The decision to release this sort of intelligence information is unusual, and it reflects concern across the U.S. government about Iran's push to shape the March 7 Iraqi balloting. The U.S. has "information operations" and other activities in Iraq to counter the Iranians, but apparently it has not mounted a full-scale covert-action campaign of its own, in part because of a desire not to manipulate a democracy that America helped create.

"To covertly go after Iran, we're too late," says a top U.S. official. "What we can do is expose."

Chalabi, reached by e-mail, denied Odierno's allegations that he was acting as an Iranian agent: "These accusations resurface every time we take a course of action that is contrary to the political agenda of the U.S. ... However, we forgive General Odierno because he captured Saddam (Hussein)."

Iran's operations in Iraq are directed by Soleimani, who is described by people who have met him as a brilliant, soft-spoken Persian version of John le Carre's master spy, Karla. He is backed by his deputy for Iraq, known as Abu Mahdi Mohandes, who U.S. officials say was involved in the bombing of the U.S. embassy in Kuwait in 1983.

The Iranians allegedly are pumping $9 million a month in covert aid to the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a Shiite party that has the most seats in the Iraqi parliament, and $8 million a month to the militant Shiite movement headed by Moqtada al-Sadr.

The current Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is said to play a delicate balancing game with Iran, opposing some of its moves and acceding to others. According to U.S. intelligence reports, a member of Maliki's staff personally hand-delivers sensitive documents from Tehran, thereby avoiding electronic communications that might be intercepted.

For the Iranians, maintaining a compliant government in Baghdad is a crucial matter of national security, especially for the generation that survived the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s. Tehran is still settling scores for that conflict. According to U.S. intelligence reports, the Iranians two months ago circulated a list of 600 Iraqi officers who are targeted for assassination because of their role in the Iraq-Iran war. Asked what the U.S. was doing to counter these killings, a commander responded: "We notify people who are on the list."

"The Iranians are everywhere, all over the place -- overtly, covertly, you name it," says a White House official who closely monitors Iraq. "They're putting chips on red and black and whatever is in between."

The best check against these Iranian machinations, U.S. officials believe, is the simple patriotism of the Iraqi people. Opinion polls show that Iran is even more mistrusted by Iraqis than is America. Iranian meddling has backfired in the past, officials say, and they are hoping that will happen again when Iraqis go to the polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/02/25/tehrans_vote_buying_in_iraq_104556.html

"To covertly go after Iran, we're too late," says a top U.S. official.

Too late? What were they doing instead of paying attention in Iraq? Sleeping? Playing golf? Trying to ram Obamacare down America's throat instead?

The Iranians allegedly are pumping $9 million a month in covert aid... and $8 million a month...

"The Iranians are everywhere, all over the place -- overtly, covertly, you name it," says a White House official who closely monitors Iraq. "They're putting chips on red and black and whatever is in between."

Soo.. maybe Iran bought a few vote talliers.. and a few who were supposed to deliver the ballot boxes.. or those who discarded Allawi votes into a field? Surely an election worker or tallier is worth far more than just getting one individual's vote through the use of "campaign materials" because they can remove thousands of votes by not inputting a zero in the voting tally? Patriotism is nice, but it won't protect the people of Iraq from outright bought workers and their fraud. That will take standing up and not sweeping this under the rug.. to deliver the Iraqi people from this widespread and significant FRAUD at Iran's behest. Is anyone able to grow a backbone and stand for the truth.. and win?

And if the Iranians do win.. it will be back to politics as usual.. and the Dinar RV discussion will die down, and they will go back to inaction and not allowing the Dinar to develop.. because, you know, the Iranians don't want a powerful, prosperous and independent Iraq right next door. It might undermine their hold on power in the region. Best if the Iraqi people are kept poor, impoverished and oppressed.. like their own Iranian people. No Dinar RV if Maliki gets in, is my view... because Tehran doesn't want him to, and they have "close ties." The only reason for the discussion of it now is to give false hope that it could be done under Maliki.. a smokescreen in my view, since he could have done so before in the years which have passed, but he never has.

Sara.

-- March 14, 2010 2:46 PM


Roger wrote:

ISX

Time of uncertainty, no one knows where the election is going to go, and it reflects also in the ISX trading. It is pretty much a sideways trading right now.

Mostly markets are trading sideways (flat) 80% of the time, and trending (up or down) 20% of the time.

This holds true in most markets, Stocks, Forex or Futures markets.

One tick up or down is not a trend, it has to be seen as a statistic, during a longer time frame.

The fact that the ISX market is trading flat right now indicate a waiting, or expecting mode.

The ISX market does not expect fear, it would in that case trend downward right now.

Western markets reacts much quicker to election results, because the vote system is computerized and instantaneous, thus results are generally known at the beginning of next trading day, and reaction on the market, to the voting results, usually shows in a trend the next trading day. Sometimes the trend continues for some considerable time.

ISX is posed to break a very long flat trading, to a trending trading soon.

The classic market behaviour for a trending market is a trend in one direction, then it takes a pause, and consolidate, then trend in that direction for a while and again consolidate.....and so on.

If the trend is strong the trend is prevalent, then the consolidation plateaus are shorter.

An economic expansion can drive a trending market for a long time.

If the market is trading flat,(sideways) the market will see an endless see saw.

A market is built on expectancy, a future hope, a postulate of the future.

Big money will affect a market, smaller investors can't, and they are better just follow the market.

-- March 14, 2010 7:14 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

Is it significant voters fraud. It may appear so , but it may also be a concerted drive from one party to highlite it so much, that it will, in case of the opposite party would win, it would make it look illegit.

The fact that it actually has happen is pretty clear, but the size of it, well hard to say.

There are hundreds of international observers on the ground, and one of them caught this guy deleting zeros.

There are other allegations as well, yes.

I am pretty confident that the very vast majority of ballot workers are doing a good job, because even if there would be a wide spread organized fraud attempt, it would be very hard to conceal that from all the observers on the ground.

Again, they are trying to be Iraqis, I will give them that chance, even of they have not got their loyalties straight just yet.

This election is a fostering excercise of where their loyalties should be. For Iraq, not their Mullah, Sheik or secular affiliation.

They are about to create a biger bubble right now, in their own universe, the bigger bubble, Iraq, is enveloping all those other small bubbles they've been sitting in.

That is confusing for some Iraqis, but it is an action they do as a whole nation, and the air is electrified in Iraq with this new concept.

Just the election process itself throws it out there for everyone to see, they are doing something, and wether they have other loyalties, or not it doesn't matter, because what they are doing is an Iraqi thing.

The election makes the whole nation, not parading for their Mullah or Sheik or whatever, but it makes the whole nation parade as Iraqis. And doing what they do...afterwards they will be right in it, and defend that concept.

I would hold back the panic button for a while, and the whole thing develops.

The end goal of Democracy is not an election, that is just an effect of it, the end goal is to share responibility and live by the laws you create.

If there is a massive voters fraud, and it is to such an extent that it compromise the election, then the Iraqis have the next challenge, live up to their own laws.

Punish those that did fraud, and recount the election.

At the end everybody can't ever be satisfied, but the general concesus has to come to a conclusion that this nation did the right thing, both with voting, and in case of voters fraud, live by their own laws.

And in case the scenario of recount will happen, that will make the Iraqis more Iraqis.

-- March 14, 2010 8:00 PM


Sara wrote:

Roger;
I must agree.
Though there has been allegations of widespread and significant voter fraud, millions of ballots were cast and for the main, even with ballot boxes missing and zeros being deleted.. unless there is more evidence of it being significant and widespread, I think in the main it has been a successful process and may reflect the will of the Iraqi people. The jury is still out but certainly, Mr. Allawi appears ready to form a governing consensus in spite of his objections. He seems optimistic when they say of him, quote, Allawi hopes a government can be formed late this month or early next.

===

It's Iraq for Iraqis now
Posted: March 14, 2010

Iraq is the country that refuses to die: Saddam Hussein tried to break his people by torture and poison gas, but he failed. America arrogantly mismanaged the first years of its occupation and nearly triggered a civil war, but the Iraqis held on. Iran tried to choke its neighbor, assassinating Iraqis it didn't like and bribing the country's politicians.

Somehow, the Iraqi nation not only survived these catastrophes, but is becoming the Middle East's most freewheeling democracy.

Last Sunday's election shouldn't be seen as a victory celebration, least of all by the United States. There's more pain and violence ahead, and there will be moments when analysts will be wondering anew if Iraq can hold together.

But at least the country truly belongs to its people now. The politicians of the new Iraq are a mercurial, conniving and sometimes corrupt crew. But they're Iraqis, and arguably that's the only thing that really matters.

Iraq's resilience -- its sheer, stubborn staying power -- can be seen in three images of a Sunni politician named Qassim Mohammed Fahdawi, who is the governor of Anbar province. When I met him in Ramadi in December, he was pitching a group of visiting Americans about investment opportunities in Anbar, handing out a glossy supplement that had been printed by the Financial Times. Just three years before, this had been al-Qaeda's home base in Iraq, and now he was talking bond guarantees.

It sounded too good to last, and it was: On Dec. 30, Fahdawi was badly injured in an al-Qaeda suicide attack at the very compound where he had been making his investment pitch two weeks before. About 30 people were killed and dozens more wounded.

The third snapshot comes in the run-up to Election Day. Fahdawi defied doctors' orders and returned in a wheelchair to Ramadi, after leg surgery and the amputation of his arm, to urge his fellow Sunnis to vote.

If toughness were enough, Iraq would be the greatest country on earth. But the hard, stoical qualities that help the Iraqis survive sometimes prevent them from making the compromises and deals that are necessary for effective governance.

The best thing about Sunday's election, judging from early results, is that no party won so big that it can form a government on its own. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's coalition (improbably called "State of Law") will dicker with the Shiite religious party headed by Vice President Adel Abdul Mahdi, which will bargain simultaneously with the secular party headed by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. And everyone will be trying to woo the Kurds.

This will be democracy Iraq-style, something closer to a day spent haggling in the souk than a visit to the Lincoln Memorial.

I called Allawi in Baghdad on Thursday to get a sense of how the political horse-trading will proceed. Initial election results suggest that his Iraqiya coalition won in two northern provinces, Diyala and Salahuddin. He said he is already talking with other factions, trying to gain support for a nonsectarian "government of reconciliation" that reaches across the parties.

All the candidates are bartering for votes, but Allawi's contacts are typical: He said he is talking with Jawad Bolani, the Shiite interior minister; Sheik Ahmed Abu-Risha, the head of the Sunni Awakening movement; Abdul Mahdi, a leader of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq; Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani; and followers of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Allawi offered to negotiate with Maliki, too, if he backs a nonsectarian government.

Allawi hopes a government can be formed late this month or early next. Few others are that optimistic. They worry about a protracted period of political bargaining and a power vacuum in Baghdad that allows a new round of sectarian fighting. Preventing this downward spiral is the challenge for Maliki, Allawi and the others. But it's their country now, to make or break.

In the darkest days of the Iraq War, it was tempting for Americans to think that we could walk away from the mess we had created. Things look better now than anyone could have imagined in 2006, but the United States still has a moral and strategic obligation to help this fragile democracy move forward -- not least because of the thousands of American lives that were lost in the years leading up to Sunday's election.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100314/OPINION12/3140324/1301/OPINION

We will have to wait and see if anything more comes of the allegations.
It is an Iraqi party.. and one the West has an obligation to help to stand.. without corruption, as far as is possible.
We'll have to see what comes of the protests and vote tampering in the coming days.

Sara.

-- March 15, 2010 12:03 AM


Paul wrote:

Regardless of all that is going on with the elections in iraq; it seems they still have to rv the dinar because of the agreements with the World Bank and the IMF.
They still have to make good on their notes that are due. they are not allowed to make payments with gold or US dollars they have in a reserve account, so what other options do they have. The IMF may step in and rv it for them.

-- March 15, 2010 10:03 AM


Jack wrote:

The Sunni insurgency in the Anbar Province destabilized Iraq for a long time. Sunnis are tough sons of bitches. The Sunnis used to run Iraq and had most of the money from oil. Now the Shiites are mostly running things. Sunnis know they should be very rich like their Arab cousins in nearby countries, in no time flat. So if there is no RV and economic progress, there will be hell to pay, and many people will die in a new insurgency. Sunnis don't like Iranians, who are Shiites. The Shiites including Maliki have a choice: Listen to Iran and hold back progress, and don't worry about an RV and getting oil going in a big way. The price of that choice is reigniting the insurgency, and many people dying in another long war. Or, the other choice is pushing progress and oil contracts and everybody gets rich, and there is no insurgency. Sunnis are more than willing to kill and be killed to get what they want. The ball is in Malki's court.

-- March 15, 2010 8:10 PM


Sara wrote:

Of Maliki this says, quote,

“It looked like he would come first, it still does, but maybe not with a big enough lead to guarantee the prime ministership.”

Western officials described Mr. Allawi’s race with Mr. Maliki as “neck and neck.” The returns suggest a striking comeback for Mr. Allawi.

===

Iraq Election Results Hint of Political Shift
By ANTHONY SHADID
Published: March 15, 2010

BAGHDAD — Partial election results released Monday suggested a sharp and divisive shift in power in Iraq, with a secular candidate challenging Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki.

The results were not yet conclusive, and given the complicated formula for allotting seats, the relative strengths of the major coalitions could change. But an updated tally of last week’s parliamentary voting suggested a new equation of leadership that hewed to an older arithmetic.

Traditional Kurdish and Shiite Arab alliances were confronted with movements that contested their claims to leadership, in particular the followers of the radical cleric Moktada al-Sadr, who fought the Americans twice in 2004. Sunni Arab voters were newly emboldened in an election in which they forcefully took part under the banner of a secular alliance.

But in many ways, the vote solidified ethnic and sectarian divisions. Despite a conscious effort by most parties to appeal to nationalist sentiments, people still voted along the lines of identity. Those demarcations of Sunni Arab, Shiite Arab or Kurd have bedeviled attempts to solve the country’s most pressing issues, including borders disputed between Arabs and Kurds and the power of the federal government in a country still haunted by decades of dictatorship.

The tally released Monday represented about two-thirds of the votes cast in the March 7 election for a 325-member Parliament. The process has proved chaotic so far, with accusations of fraud by leading parties, divisions among highly politicized electoral officials and chaos in disclosing the results, which had been expected last week.

On Monday night, pandemonium erupted again, as officials repeatedly delayed the release of the partial count, then closed their offices before the complete tally was made public.

Western officials have acknowledged the partisan disputes inside the election headquarters, but played down irregularities that might deprive the election of legitimacy.

“We haven’t seen a single piece of evidence of widespread fraud,” said one official, speaking anonymously because of the delicacy of the issue.

In the broadest strokes, the results confirmed some expectations before the election. Mr. Maliki was winning significantly in six of Iraq’s nine southern provinces, populated by the country’s Shiite majority. The coalition led by Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite and former prime minister who has emerged as a default leader for Sunnis, scored gains in Iraq’s Sunni provinces, sometimes overwhelmingly.

Baghdad, with 70 seats in Parliament, emerged as a crucial test. Mr. Maliki was winning a plurality, though Mr. Allawi’s slate was running a relatively close second.

“The decisive region is Baghdad,” said Mr. Askari, the candidate allied with Mr. Maliki.

Many expected Mr. Maliki to win a plurality. For the prime minister, though, any margin of victory will prove crucial in giving him a mandate to lead negotiations with rival coalitions, whose leaders include some who fear Mr. Maliki’s authoritarian tendencies or dislike him personally. Mr. Sadr’s followers, for instance, vehemently oppose his return.

“It looked like he would come first, it still does, but maybe not with a big enough lead to guarantee the prime ministership,” said a Western diplomat who was not authorized to speak on the record.

Western officials described Mr. Allawi’s race with Mr. Maliki as “neck and neck.” The returns suggest a striking comeback for Mr. Allawi.

Many have read his strong showing as a victory for a cross-sectarian alliance that hewed to a nationalist line. But the results released on Monday show that his coalition had only moderate gains in the Shiite south, scoring a distant third in most provinces there. That has made for one of the election’s greatest paradoxes: a secular Shiite heading the Sunni bloc in Parliament.

It also points to the greatest difficulty Mr. Allawi will face: balancing the demands of his new constituency with the necessities of forging an alliance to lead the government. An ally on his list has insisted that the presidency go to a Sunni Arab rather than to a Kurd. Many of the powerful candidates on his list, known as Iraqiya, are also adamantly opposed to concessions to Kurds along disputed borders.

“If the fundamentalists inside Iraqiya remain on this course, then no patriotic bloc would ever partner with them,” said Khalid Shwani, a Parliament member and candidate in Kirkuk for an alliance of the Kurdish region’s two traditionally dominant parties.

Those two parties found themselves on unfamiliar ground. They have been disappointed with their tally so far in Kirkuk, a city contested by Turkmens, Arabs and Kurds, where they had expected to win as many as two-thirds of the seats. With 60 percent of the vote counted, their alliance lagged behind Mr. Allawi’s coalition of Arabs and Turkmens.

The Kurdish alliance also faced a challenge to its leadership from Kurds themselves.

The party of President Jalal Talabani, one of the two most prominent Kurdish leaders and a veteran of Iraqi politics, was outpolled in his home province by the combined votes of an Islamist party and a third Kurdish group, Gorran, or Change, a renegade faction of his own movement.

“This is a great achievement — the Kurdistan alliance against a movement that’s less than a year old,” said Dana Ahmed Majid, a spokesman for Gorran.

A major realignment was also under way within the Shiite alliance that represented Mr. Maliki’s biggest challenge in the south. Former exiles who played a dominant role in Shiite politics since 2003 lagged behind candidates of Mr. Sadr in Baghdad and several provinces. Candidates and other politicians say Mr. Sadr’s followers may have even won a majority of the alliance’s votes, making them second only to Mr. Maliki as a Shiite force.

Rivals question the movement’s maturity. Mr. Sadr remains in exile in Iran. Others wonder about the unpredictability of a group that has embraced the political process but still celebrates a martial culture built on its fight with the American military.

“The major sectarian political blocs have been broken to pieces,” said Ghassan al-Attiya, a political analyst. “But it is not yet the end of sectarian politics.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/world/middleeast/16iraq.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

-- March 16, 2010 1:56 AM


Sara wrote:

Paul and Jack;

Both interesting scenerios.. we will have to see if your speculations pan out.
Appreciate your sharing your thoughts with the board.
Would there be any documents saying any of these things you could point to..
Like.. one saying the Iraqis cannot repay in USD or gold, for instance?
Personally, if you wished to repay me with gold or USD I wouldn't say no.. just saying.
Trying to follow the logic involved in your argument... err, from a "Banker's perspective."

Sara.

-- March 16, 2010 2:06 AM


Roger wrote:

Paul and Jack,

The report to IMF from CBI president Shibibi, clearly says how the RV will take place. It will not be decided by a comitte, either in CBI or IMF.

IMF couldn't do it in the first place, CBI is bound by agreement with IMF on policies, but IMF is not Iraq's fiscal authority , CBI is.

IMF could press CBI to do it, but the action of doing it, is solely CBI's.

Instead, CBI chooses to put the Dinar on Forex.

If you go up a couple of blogs, you can read the exact statement, this was in the latest report from CBI to IMF.

What this will do is to avoid a very big dilema all controlled curencies have. There are two values on a controlled currency.

Lets take the Dinar for example, we are all very familiar with that currency, and we all agree that it is undervalued.

How much, we really don't know, but we do know that it is undervalued.

So a currency have a real value, and if it is controlled, it has a set value AND a real value.

CBI have set the value artificially, that is one value, then the consensus is that it is undervalued, that is the other value (the real value.)

Set currencies, or FIAT currencies always have those two values, and the controlling power can either undervalue its currency (like China, and Iraq), for political purposes, or other alternate (hidden or open) intentions. Or try to hit the real value, always hard to do, and it hinders the development of the country, as a currency that is holding it's real value will always be the blood that runs quicker in the veins.

May it be a low or high value compared with other currencies, that is not the point, as long as it holds it's real value, it will be commericaly a currency with much better bite, because a free traded currency is more trusted.

By putting the Dinar on Forex ( as mr Shibibi stated in his report....-"very soon") the Dinar will go to it's real value, as it is now a commodity that is bought and sold on the open market, and the buyers and sellers will set the price.

That value....here, you start geting my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I think they will start with an opening price, that may not be the old value we have seen for such a long time as per CBI's auction.

In order to make the Dinar attractive to buy, they may start with an opening price of maybe a couple of cents value, and then let it lose.

If CBI goes all out and set an opening price of 4 Dollars for example, there will not be a rush to buy it, people will gladly cash out all the Dinars they have got, and that will make the value go straight down.

So they may either go with the Dinar straight on the market with the current price, or they may start with a couple of cents ( in Dollar value) in opening price ( well... in a sense you can say that the price hike from it's current value to a couple of cents in it's opening bid, is an RV in itself).

You will also get the effect that all the Dinar holder will not rush and sell off all their Dinars, as you will get a gradually rise in the Dinar exchange value , and you always want a little bit more out of it.

The game will not be one big bang of a currency lift in value, an overnight change from 1170 dinars per Dollar to 3.80 Dollars to 1 Dinar. No, not with Forex. Forex will first try to find the Dinars true value, as Iraq looks today, and as Iraq is growing, so will the Dinar follow.

The first couple of weeks on the Forex will probably start with a spike up in value, then it will probably go up and down in big swings, for a while, until it settles in a range. That is the true value.

True value on the money exchange market will change as time goes by.

In this way CBI have ensured that the value of the currency will rise as Iraq is developing and is finacially and economically going to new heights.

Our game as Dinar holders, will be to try to get more and more out of the Dinars we are holding. It would be a waste of investment to run and cash out after the fist spike.

If it stabilizes around 12 cents for exmple...hang on, next month it may be 17 cents, next month it din't do to good but we got 18 ents out of it, ....then a drop to 15 cents, ..everybody scared and some cash out, only to find that the Dinar went to 38 cents just afterwards and are stabilizing between 38 and 42 cents........and so on, that will be the Forex Dinar game.

If an RV happens where the value is artificially determied to be 3.50 Dollars to 1 Dinar for example, everybody wants to sell their Dinars, it's always a big fiscal problem when an over the board sell out happens, in any market, .....the trick, and Forex accomplishes that...is to make them hang onto the Dinars.

If everyone that have an account in one bank , lined up and cashed out their accounts, the bank would go belly up.

The same principals apply here, but in a bigger scale, if everyone would cash out the Dinars at the same time, Iraq would be in big trouble even with the big reserves they have.

Ok we talked about the reserves, and that is a natural bridge over to Iraq's debt to IMF, its payment and so on.

The fun thing here is that if you check out the IMF account it shows that Iraq got the loans, but didn't take them out.

Iraq have ammased a very big reserve since the day of Invasion, not counting all frozen assets that are soon to be returned once all the IMF BS is done and all the sanctions are fully lifted.

Because of a drop in oil revenue(drop in price per barrel), the expected income for this budget and next years budget is not fully covered, by it's income. By 2011 the budget is expected to be in par with the income, even if the oilprices stays the same ( they are expected to rise though) because by that time, Iraq will be producing so much more oil than it is doing now.

In the meanwhile Iraq took a slice from it's reserves and incorporated it in it's budget, and will do it the next year also.

The slice needed to do this is a very modest slice, even after doing it for two years in a row, not much of Iraqs reserve has been used.

Iraq is still sitting on a mountain of reserve.

Imagine that, Iraq is in a much better economical shape than the US per capita, the US have only a staggering debt.

The Dollars and Gold that Iraq is sitting on, that is held since the implementation of the sanctions many years ago, is just an icing on the cake, and yes, they can't pay (or play) with that, but they don't need it, in order to pay the loans they have.

The big debt Saddam incurred, are mostly written off, and what is left, is very little compared with the original debt.

Negotiations are still unerway, especially negotiations with Kuwait and how to pay them for war damage. Last I heard about that is that the negotiations are well underway and they have pretty much detailed the claim, much of the original Kuwaiti claim has been written off, but things remains, such as compensation to faimilies for killed or missing persons.

All in all, Iraq is not with any means in any financial trouble. It's the other way around, Iraq is in an excellent shape.

The notion that "how in the h..l are Iraq going to manage to pay back their loans....". They have no bigger problems with it in the first place.

Or the notion that there will be a civil war, unless this or that happens. It's still unstable, yes, but it is far from a civil war now. Iraq's Army is now in such a shape that there are no single group in Iraq that is big enough that can challenge the Iraqi Army, that goal was acomplished already in the fall of 2006.

Better cars, electronics, elections, cellphones and satellite TV is the norm over there now, it for sure can improve, but the Iraqis know where they have been, and where they are now.....and they're not going back.

I'm just waiting for the Dinar to go onto Forex.

That will be a daily RV.

Roger


-- March 16, 2010 6:14 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

The Dollar and gold that is refered to here, that Iraq can not pay or play with, is a really healthy chunk of value that was confiscated and held from Saddam ...way back then, it's physical address was then NY, it is still held in NY.

Iraq have so much play money now, that it has created since the inasion, that it will not affect it's loan payments.

Once all the sanctions are lifted it is going back, as Iraqi property again.

-- March 16, 2010 6:31 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Roger and All,

There is no revaluation and the current dinar is not going on the FOREX; instead, the currency will be lopped and then achieve parity with the USD. Sorry, wanna be multi-millionares not going to happen. For a 25000 dinar note to be worth $25000 USD is not realistic. You are looking forward to an event that is not going to happen.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 16, 2010 9:41 AM


Roger wrote:

I've heard spontaneous combustion is a rewarding hobby

-- March 16, 2010 9:53 AM


Paul wrote:

Rob

The dinar is so undervalued right now that it would make no sense to lop. That would leave the value exactly where it is today and would do absolutely no good for payment on world bank notes, IMF, oil co., etc. The contracts alone with the oil co. is enough to revalue not to mention all the money received from the World Bank and IMF to rebuild. Iraq is taking bids to build a huge port and railway to import and export, and thats just one thing mentioned. They also are expected to be one of the largest oil exporter by 2015. It is impossible for the dinar to remain at it's present value. It wouldn't be possible to even begin to rebuild and accomplish all that is expected of them. World Bank and IMF wouldn't have wasted time and especially money on the future of IRAQ

-- March 16, 2010 11:36 AM


Sara wrote:

Allawi's list has put forward a long list of complaints about alleged fraud, including ballots found in garbage and more than 200,000 soldiers who were unable to vote because their names did not appear on official rosters.

I wonder if that will count for anything?

===

Iran Praises Iraq Election as Shi'ite Ally Leads
March 16, 2010

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran congratulated Iraqis on Tuesday over an election that is likely to keep a bloc led by its Shi'ite ally, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, in power after a campaign in which Tehran's influence was a divisive issue.

Maliki's main challenger, former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, who headed a secular list mixing Shi'ite and Sunni Arabs, made a high-profile visit to Saudi Arabia during the campaign to improve ties with Iran's biggest Sunni rival in the Gulf region.

"All international supervision has confirmed the soundness of the Iraqi elections. This is a success and we congratulate Iraqis," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said at a weekly press briefing on English-language state television.

"We hope we'll be able to see the formation of the new government as soon as possible ... the whole region will benefit from security in Iraq."

Early results from the March 7 parliamentary vote show Maliki's State of Law bloc ahead in seven of 18 provinces, while strong Sunni Arab support has propelled the Allawi's secularist Iraqiya list into second.

A member of Iraq's Shi'ite Arab majority, Maliki has maintained close ties with non-Arab Shi'ite power Iran, Iraq's neighbor which is locked in dispute with the United States over its nuclear energy program and influence in Arab countries.

Analysts say leading Sunni Arab states such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia would be more comfortable with a government led by Allawi.

Politicians have criticized the delay in publishing the election results.

Allawi's list has put forward a long list of complaints about alleged fraud, including ballots found in garbage and more than 200,000 soldiers who were unable to vote because their names did not appear on official rosters.

Maliki, who came to power in 2005, was unpopular in Arab capitals when sectarian fighting worsened in 2006, confirming the marginalization of Sunni Arabs who dominated Iraq under former leader Saddam Hussein.

Sunnis see Maliki as a Shi'ite leader beholden to Tehran.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10111958

-- March 16, 2010 11:56 AM


Sara wrote:

Not sure it can be swept under the rug.. waiting for the release tomorrow.

===

Iraq Downplays Election Fraud Claims
Published on March 16, 2010
by EU News Network (EUNewsNet.com and OfficialWire)

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - Any violations in the parliamentary election March 7 in Iraq didn't have an impact on the election process or undermine election legitimacy, officials said.

More than 60 percent of the eligible voters in Iraq turned out for the March 7 parliamentary elections. Early tallies indicate the State of Law coalition of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in the lead in Baghdad province, a key district with 68 seats in the 325-member parliament.

Maliki's rivals in the Iraqi National Alliance slate of Ahmed Chalabi and the secular Iraqiya coalition of former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi last week complained of election fraud.

Iraqiya said "certain parties" had interfered with the work of the Iraqi Independent High Electoral Commission. Chalabi's slate said there was tampering with computers used to tally the votes.

Qassim al-Aboudi, a spokesman for the IHEC, said Monday that no election process was perfect.

''No elections are implemented without complaints," he said. IHEC added that any election violations did not appear severe enough to influence the outcome.

Struan Stevenson, the president of the EU delegation to Iraq, said Friday the "steady flow of (fraud) allegations has now become a flood."

Stevenson said he received "first-hand accounts" of ballot stuffing that benefited Maliki's State of Law coalition in Sunni neighbors in the Iraqi capital. "Many thousands" of ballots papers for Iraqiya, meanwhile, were discovered in a Baghdad trash heap, he added.

Stevenson said had would deliver a "large dossier of evidence" highlighting the level of fraud to the European Parliament March 17.

http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news&rid=113119

Is it just that "no election process is perfect"?
Or are we about to see documentation on the level of fraud to be something more?
With Iran ecstatically cheering in the background after having pumped millions into the election.. if there was evidence of ballot stuffing, changing vote tallies, and entire ballot boxes going missing in an election YOU voted in.. would you think it "not severe enough to influence the outcome"?
Or would you wish the FLOOD of claims to be taken seriously and dealt with in a clear and plain, upfront manner - with true transparency and weight given to the allegations AND PROOF?
I think their ecstatic claims of victory for Maliki in light of this "flood" - premature.
There is more to come before this "flood" of claims can be swept away without besmirching the outcome.

Sara.

-- March 16, 2010 12:12 PM


Sara wrote:

Roger, Paul and Board;

Thank you for your illuminating posts on the question of Iraq and her resources and reserves. They are very hopeful signs. As for RobN's lop idea - he is speaking in the face of those at the CBI who say they will not do so, in a recent press release THIS MONTH:

---

No plans to make ID1000 = $1 – CBI
March 3, 2010

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: There are no plans to make the exchange rate of ID1,000 equal to $1, Central Bank of Iraq (CBI) said on Wednesday.

“Iraq’s currency policies are far from such decisions,” the CBI said in a release received by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The CBI said that the current exchange rate, ID1,170 = $1, is balanced, stable, and can be preserved through Iraq’s foreign currency reservoir of $43 billion.

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=127953

I understand RobN believes them to be boldface liars, who will lop anyway.. but it does fly in the face of their own stated position. As for the opportunities in Iraq, once they have resolved the elections to everyone's satisfaction, presuming a resolution of grievances in a true, open and transparent process in a truly free and democratic way.. there is a lot of work and progress to be done for the Iraqi people. And many are more than willing to help Iraq achieve the progress they are seeking in their many sectors, including:

===

ArcelorMittal plans JV in Northern Iraq

Mar 16, 2010

BRUSSELS - ArcelorMittal, the world's largest steelmaker, has inked a preliminary agreement with its Turkish partner Dayen to set up a steel mill in Northern Iraq to serve the construction industry in the region.

The mini-mill, which will use locally sourced scrap metal to make steel reinforcing bars, is set to cost the two companies $100 million to $130 million in total, and could produce as much as 500,000 tonnees per year, Arcelor said in a statement on Tuesday.

Following the signing of the memorandum of understanding with Dayen, construction of the mill should start in the second quarter of 2010 and production is planned to commence early in the fourth quarter of 2011.

"There are many opportunities for ArcelorMittal to assist in the development of the country," said Christophe Cornier, member of the group management board.

"There is great demand for steel products for the local construction industry, which we aim to meet, working closely with our partner Dayen and the local government in Northern Iraq".

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000447546/ArcelorMittal_plans_JV_in_Northern_Iraq/Article.htm

-- March 16, 2010 12:26 PM


Anonymous wrote:

From the U.S. Energy Information Administration: OPEC Oil Export Revenues

Based on projections from the EIA March 2010 Short-Term Energy Outlook (STEO), members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) could earn $767 billion of net oil export revenues in 2010 and $823 billion in 2011. Last year, OPEC earned $573 billion in net oil export revenues, a 41 percent decrease from 2008. Saudi Arabia earned the largest share of these earnings, $154 billion, representing 27 percent of total OPEC revenues. On a per-capita basis, OPEC net oil export earning reached $1,554 in 2009, a 42 percent decrease from 2008.

-- March 16, 2010 1:05 PM


Sara wrote:

Very interesting... from Debka:

===

Iraq's leading PM candidate Maliki injured by assassins
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report March 15, 2010

Debkafile's intelligence and Baghdad sources disclose that prime minister Nouri al-Maliki was injured in an attempt on his life last Thursday, March 11. His armored convoy came under an RPG-automatic fire attack after a bomb hit his car. US and Iraqi authorities have blacked out the incident, but our sources learn that Maliki is being treated for moderate-to-serious injuries at the American military hospital. One source says he was hit in the arm. His doctors apparently found his condition was too serious for him to face TV cameras and deliver a broadcast statement to the nation scheduled Sunday March 14, although members of his State of the Law party were beginning to ask questions about his disappearance.

As the counting of votes continues in Iraq's general election, it confirms the Maliki party's lead against its foremost rival, former prime minister Iyad Allawi's secular al-Iraqiya bloc of liberal Shiites and Sunni Muslims.

Allawi's is running an active campaign to prove widespread vote-rigging both in the balloting of the 19 million eligible voters in the country and the more one and a half-million ballots outside.

Maliki is running ahead in seven to nine provinces. Still, Allawi who appears to have carried five, hopes to unseat his rival and win a second term as prime minister.

The incumbent, a Shiite, is solidly backed from Washington as its best hope for a stable government that would allow the US military to pull out of Iraq on time in August, seven years after the invasion.

Saudi Arabia and Syria and some circles in the Obama administration promoted Allawi's bid.

The attack on Malliki was obviously aimed at getting rid of the American candidate for Iraqi prime minister. His State of the Law party is very much a one-man show. Without its leader, it would probably break up into factions and its winning parliamentary members attach themselves to other groupings in the 325-member House.

http://www.debka.com/article/8652/

-- March 16, 2010 3:44 PM


Sara wrote:

Off topic from Dinar.. on national security, those wishing Dinar/Iraq news, skip this one.

I have often wondered how on earth something so devastating as the nuclear holocaust I viewed from outerspace in a 'vision' could possibly happen when the nation is so heavily defended with first, second and third tiered defenses. Well.. it really does rely on good people being in defensive positions calling the shots - those who believe in those defenses, will arm those defenses and then will fire those defenses, doesn't it? I mean, if they didn't.. what could happen? And since such an attack, if successful, would indeed affect the lives of millions.. I thought I would toss this out there for consideration, as perhaps this perhaps could be a step toward a direction which SHOULD BE avoided - and could possibly result in a successful nuclear attack scenerio in the future upon US soil. Just sayin... maybe someone ought to be wakin up to what these kinds of things might mean to yall's continued survival.

Sara.

===

Obama Nominates Missile Defense Critic to Key White House Spot
Coyle is the high priest of nay saying.
BY John Noonan
March 4, 2010

To date, President Obama's nominations to key defense postings have been mostly pragmatic, starting at the top with the retention of Secretary Gates. However, in the instance of Philip Coyle -- nominated to fill the associate director of national security and international affairs spot in the Office of Science and Technology Policy-- the administration whiffed. Coyle, a long time opponent of ballistic missile defense (dating back to Reagan's SDI days), is an ideologue whose appointment could prove harmful to U.S. security.

Coyle claims that missile defense is a "theology, not a technology." He's argued, steadily, that BMD systems are useless against countermeasures like chaff and maneuverable warheads, and that testing failures in certain systems renders the technology obsolete. In 2006, just prior to North Korea test firing a volley of ballistic missiles, Coyle wrote:
QUOTE:

The ground-based system hasn't had a successful flight intercept test in four years. In the two most recent attempts, the interceptor never got off the ground and failed to leave its silo. And in the only other recent attempt, the kill vehicle - the pointy-end of the interceptor - failed to separate from its booster and missed its target.

A question the press might ask President Bush is, "So long as you resist face-to-face meetings with North Korea, aren't you just giving them more time to develop a missile that can reach the U.S.?"

Or to put it differently, "Mr. President, which do you think will take longer: North Korea to develop a missile that can reach the U.S.? Or the U.S. to develop a missile defense we can rely on?"

==end quote==

A fair question. Despite an aggressive long range missile program, North Korea has yet to launch a missile that can reach Hawaii, much less the continental United States. Meanwhile, there have been successful tests of the RIM-161 SM-3 interceptor, the airborne laser, the ground-based mid course interceptor, and the theater high-altitude area defense system. But instead of retracting after completely misreading North Korean v. U.S. development capabilities, he switched tactics, claiming in House testimony that deterrence assures us that North Korea would never attack the south, Japan, or the United States. In the same testimony, Coyle -- despite a series of successful tests -- clung to the very same talking point he used almost a decade earlier -- that BMD is questionable technology which isn't worth the money or resources.

If theology has crept into the missile defense debate, Coyle is the high priest of nay saying. There's an inherent danger in placing ideologues, particularly those in favor of treaties which negotiate away U.S. security, in high level defense posts. Ballistic missile defense, whether it is Obama's clumsily handled "phased, adaptive" approach or the robust system originally conceived by the Bush administration, will be our first, second, and third lines of defense as more nations develop long range missiles. Coyle's long, steadfast opposition to badly needed defensive systems, and his refusal to bend even when geo-political events dictate, make him a highly dubious candidate for such a critical White House position.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-nominates-missile-defense-critic-key-dod-spot

-- March 16, 2010 4:07 PM


Sara wrote:

And one more on the same national security problem.. (no Dinar on this one)

A note - what might happen if the parts the US uses have a backdoor in them to shut them off when an attack comes? Sound unimaginable and impossible? This says, quote "Semiconductors used in U.S. weapons systems that come from China and other countries could be pre-programmed for failure".. what weapons systems, exactly? Like.. maybe the ones to do with protecting the country from a launch of multiple nuclear-tipped warheads?

===

Intel Briefs: China could program U.S. collapse
The ultimate mole? 'Back door' functions in microprocessors
Posted: March 15, 2010

Semiconductors used in U.S. weapons systems that come from China and other countries could be pre-programmed for failure, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

In an exclusive interview with G2 Bulletin, a high-level Pentagon technical expert who asked to remain anonymous warned that such tampering is virtually undetectable. His revelation underscores a growing concern in the U.S. military that with the dwindling manufacture of domestic chips and electronics combined with the burgeoning growth of supplies – especially from China – there is virtually no way to trace the source of any electronic tampering.

Such problems could include programmed shutdown of critical weapons systems or extracting valuable operational data on a weapons system. This problem stems from a decision made years ago for the U.S. military to buy commercial off-the-shelf microprocessors, thereby increasing the likelihood of pre-programmed codes with a hidden "backdoor" function to cause disruptions.

Now, the Pentagon has no control over what companies will manufacture critical semiconductor components for increasingly complex weapons systems.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=128025

What if Iran, Russia or North Korea put their nuclear tipped missiles off the US coast on a commercial barge from Venezuela and got near NY harbor (200 mile limit, international waters, uninspectionable), then launched them at the US? Could there be a "programmed shutdown of critical weapons systems" malfunction of the multi-layered protection systems?

Sara.

-- March 16, 2010 8:45 PM


Rob wrote:

Thought I would pass this on from a concerned citizen. It is a response to the US Census Bureau. I like it. I have copied it, attached it to the census I received today and it will be posted out first thing tomorrow.


Memorandum

To: US Census Bureau
From: Head of Household
Subject: 2010 Census

Dear Sir or Madam,

I want to thank your organization for the efforts it is making to ensure that the constitutional requirements for enumeration are being fulfilled and that the citizens of this country are being accurately enumerated for the sake of representation and apportionment of taxes. However, after carefully reviewing the document, I have noted the absence of any requirement to identify the citizenship of individuals completing the census form. In addition, the survey asks questions which are outside the scope of our constitutional mandate.

I believe this error may potentially cause an erroneous realignment of representation which will only serve the purposes of bureaucrats and politicians and may also cause an apportionment of taxes and programs which benefit those who are ineligible due to their illegal status within this country. The policies of this current administration have only served to spread fear and distrust among the population of this country. Americans are concerned that the constitutional foundations of this country are being dangerously eroded. For example, the current congress and administration are trying to force upon the American people a health care program and are using dishonest means and efforts to force their will upon the American people. There are other examples and too many to mention in this letter.

In light of this concern, I have chosen to adhere to the strictest sense of duty to my country and honor the mandates of our truly awesome constitution. Until I feel safe to once again trust our elected officials to truly uphold the constitution and protect our American way of life, I cannot and will not offer any information that I believe lies outside the scope and mandate of our constitution. At this time, I believe the constitution offers me a safe haven which protects the values which are important to me.

Therefore, my answers shall be limited and expressed as follows:
Five American born citizens reside at this address.

Again, thank you for your efforts and I pray that your organization will in the future, honor and protect the integrity of our constitution and avoid politically motivated mandates which can unravel the fabric of our great nation.

Signed: Head of Household

-- March 16, 2010 8:59 PM


Paul wrote:

AWESOME ROB

I couldn't have said it better. That is exactly how I felt as soon as I opened that thing.

But instead of filling it out as you did; i felt compelled to throw away. I wish I would have seen your answer because I would have done the same.

Good job

-- March 16, 2010 9:31 PM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

One of your posts today mentin about a steel factory in northern iraq.

I am pretty sure I know where that steelfactory is locate. It is located just outside of Camp Taji, where I was stationed.

There are acres and acres of old gutted cars , and not too far away a steel plant.
I am not sure to what degre they are operating that steel plant, when passing by in convoys though, I could see a pretty big parking lot but not too many cars outside, mainly a parking lot that vendors have set up shop, ( a box, a tarp and that's it.)

The factory was pretty large, but you could see that only part of the factory was in use, lot of buildings was in disprepair, with sheetmatel missing and gutted interiors.

Still at night there was work light set up and there was some smoke coming out of a building here and there, so they had to do something in there.

Too me it came across as a steel fatory that with an infusion of capital could be up and running fully.

Every day trucks lined up and ofloaded new junk cars. It was funny they way they transport junk cars over there, they stash the cars sideways on the truckbed, so the trunk and the hood of each car was sticking out on each side. Stash twenty cars like that and the load reminded about a hey stack load, hanging out all over the place.

I bet you that this is the plant they are talking about that will have a reinvestment.

I especially caught on to that posting as this steel plant was something that I have seen, and can side with the notion that it could use a fiancial infusion.

It for sure had as much steel stored as you ccould ask for.

-- March 17, 2010 1:25 AM


Sara wrote:

Ayad Allawi Overtakes PM Nouri al-Maliki in Overall Vote Count in Iraq
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit at 10:36 PM

Allawi served as interim P.M. in Iraq before the 2005 elections... Leads by 9k votes

From The Associated Press
QUOTE:

BAGHDAD – A secular coalition challenging the Iraqi prime minister in the country's historic parliamentary elections has narrowly pulled ahead for the first time in the overall vote count, although it still trails in the crucial province-by-province count.

The Iraqiya coalition, led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, seemed to be gaining momentum, taking a 9,000 vote lead nationwide, according to new totals released late Tuesday. But with about 20 percent of the votes still to be counted from the March 7 election, it was unclear whether that margin would give Allawi more seats in parliament, which will determine who will lead the government.

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/ayad-allawi-overtakes-pm-nouri-al.html

=== AND ===

Challenger overtakes Iraq PM in overall vote count
Play Video Video:Early Iraq election results show tight contest CBC.ca
Play Video Video:Iraq PM in tight contest with ex-premier for poll lead AFP

By QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA and BEN HUBBARD, Associated Press Writers Qassim Abdul-zahra And Ben Hubbard, Associated Press Writers
Tue Mar 16, 2010

BAGHDAD – Crucially, with 79 percent of votes counted, al-Maliki's coalition was still winning in seven of Iraq's 18 provinces — including all-important Baghdad — compared with five for Allawi. That could prove important since parliament seats are apportioned mainly by how well coalitions do in the provinces, not according to overall vote total.

Still, the momentum apparent in Allawi's overall, nationwide lead could be troubling the prime minister and his coalition, raising questions about how strong their lead is.

The new vote results did not alter the picture much for the religious Shiite Iraqi National Alliance and the main Kurdish coalition, which lead in three provinces each.

However, in the province of Tamim, Allawi was beating his main challenger, the Kurdish coalition, by only five votes. The province is home to the disputed city of Kirkuk, which is hotly contested among its Kurdish, Arab and Turkomen population.

Allawi, a secular Shiite, has drawn on considerable Sunni support, likely due to his nonsectarian stance and repeated condemnations of the influence of Iraq's powerful Shiite neighbor, Iran.

The counting process has been fraught with claims of fraud, mostly from the opposition. Others have criticized the electoral commission for disorganization and delaying results.

"Because it's so tight, it's more tense and you are going to see more allegations of fraud. People could try to use that as a political weapon," said Michael Hanna, an analyst on Iraqi affairs at the Century Foundation in New York.

He said al-Maliki's allegations could reflect the prime minister's coalition realizing their lead is not as strong as once believed.

"It's hard not to be cynical about some of these claims, most of them actually," he said.

Electoral commission official Saad al-Rawi confirmed the commission had received al-Maliki's complaint but said it was one of many to come in without concrete evidence. Al-Rawi said six workers at the counting center were fired, but for incompetence and entering incorrect data into the computers.

Independent Iraqi observers and U.N. officials advising the commission say they have seen no evidence of widespread fraud that could undermine the outcome, though some worry the slow count could fuel suspicion.

Others suspect al-Maliki's complaints have less to do with fraud concerns and more to do with improving his position for the months of political wrangling likely to follow the release of official results.

No bloc is likely to win a majority, meaning the winning candidate will have to ally with rival blocs to form a government.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iraq;_ylt=Alkiq4cp66TOwkIwA0PwZvys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTM3cDA1MTI2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzE3L21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMzBHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNmdWxsbmJzcHN0b3I-

-- March 17, 2010 2:01 AM


Roger wrote:

BDM missiles,

The only time they were used in big numbers in a war scenario was during the Desert Storm.

The patriot missile did a decent job against SCUD, but there were glitches. If it was luck of the Irish or for whatever reason the SCUD kills were higher for the Saudi Defense, then it was for the Israeli Defense.

Roughly half of Saddams missiles slipped through and hit Israel, while 70-80% ( have read different figures) of Saddams SCUD's was intercepted that was aimed for Ryiad.

I can strongly assume that the computer program for those missiles have been upgraded since then, but I don't think they will be able to always do a 100% kill on incoming warheads with Ballistic Defense Missiles.

If I was sitting in a town where incoming warheads are on the way, I rather have the BDM system than not, even if it is not a hundred percent guarantee that it will take out all warheads.

The new development of High Energy Laser systems seem to be very promising though. Epecially the airborne Laser installed in a Jumo Jet type aircraft body.

A few of them are opertional now, and I can bet a quarter that they have something to do with N.Koreas endless missile break ups when they are doing their tests.

They try over and over but it seems to be a repeatable pattern... the fly up in the atmopsphere for a while, but just about the exact point where it will drop harmelssly in the ocean, they always seeem to do just that, break up at the very best place they can ( best, for us, and Japan).

I'm pretty sure we're helping the N.Koreans a little bit on that point.

-- March 17, 2010 2:02 AM


Roger wrote:

Malaki in the lead, Allawi is complaining.

Allawi is doing great, much better than expected, so Malaki is complaining.

*feets up*** -"Beer...Pizza"

-- March 17, 2010 2:11 AM


Sara wrote:

Very interesting, Roger.
Sounds intriguing.
With a bit of cash infusion.. it sounds like it could take right off and do well.
Everything's there, they just need some commitment monetarily.
It seems that a whole lot of Iraq is just itching to take off..
if only they can get some folks in there agreeing to move forward and prosper the place.
Why not?
I sure hope Allawi gets in as PM.
I believe that would help business move forward by a lot.
As I said, Iran does not want the Iraqis to grow in power and influence.
They would prefer a poor, weak neighbor not a strong, prosperous one.
A secular candidate without strings attached to Iran seems to me just what Iraq needs to get on her feet.
Maliki didn't RV and get the development of the country going, deferring to Iran.
He could have developed Iraq greatly.. over these many years.
I think Allawi will bring a new perspective, and get things going, Dinar included.
With him now in the lead, things are looking different.. and hopeful for Iraq's prosperity.
I'm praying the Lord's will be done..
And hopefully then the Dinar RV gets done, Iraq gets on its feet and becomes prosperous.
Success, freedom, prosperity and peace is always a good reason for rejoicing and a blessing from God.

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 2:21 AM


Sara wrote:

Ex-leader could win Iraq election
Manila News.Net
Tuesday 16th March, 2010

Former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has pulled ahead in the country’s vote count.

Preliminary results from Iraq's parliamentary elections now show a coalition led by Mr Allawi has about 9,000 more votes than the coalition of Shi'ite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

Iraqi officials have claimed about 80 percent of the votes are now counted.

http://www.manilanews.net/story/612953

-- March 17, 2010 2:36 AM


Sara wrote:

Iraq PM and main rival projected to tie on seat count
Posted: 17 March 2010

BAGHDAD: Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and his main rival Iyad Allawi were projected on Wednesday to win the same number of seats in Iraq's parliament in a dramatic tightening of the country's election race.

Maliki's State of Law Alliance and Allawi's Iraqiya bloc were both on pace to garner 87 seats in Iraq's Council of Representatives, with less than 9,000 votes separating the two nationwide, according to an AFP projection based on 79 per cent of ballots cast.

But votes cast outside Iraq and during special voting for the security forces, the sick and prisoners have not yet been tabulated by Iraq's election commission, and could yet dramatically affect the outcome.

Iraq's proportional representation electoral system makes it unlikely that any single group will clinch the 163 seats needed to form a government on its own, and protracted coalition building is likely.

Both State of Law and Iraqiya have said they have begun talks with rival blocs to form a government, with analysts warning that political groupings could still manoeuvre to form a coalition without either list.

Complete election results are expected around March 18, and final results - after all complaints have been investigated and ruled upon - are likely by the end of the month.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1044133/1/.html

-- March 17, 2010 2:51 AM


Roger wrote:

As it stands, 79% votes counted, and now Allawi is in a narrow lead.

-- March 17, 2010 3:34 AM


Roger wrote:

This is a very interesting turn of events, with this latest development....will the trend hold... things have then turn around and come to a change in Iraq.

I'll be darn...

Out of popcorn, soda and crackers...are eating raw macaroni.

-- March 17, 2010 3:45 AM


Roger wrote:

Sara,

Here is one coming your way,

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG

-- March 17, 2010 3:48 AM


Sara wrote:

Roger;

Try carrot sticks.
I like the baby ones for gnawing on.
Beats popcorn which only melts in your mouth, nothing to chew on.
This really has turned into a "nailbiter".. or, really, carrot stick biter. :)
Tomorrow the EU parliament gets that dossier about fraud.
Should be interesting to see what that says, too.

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 3:49 AM


Sara wrote:

Hugg back. :)
Oh, about that rumor on the PM..
I found another interesting tidbit on it.
Just for interest's sake:

===

Iraq's leader sick or shot?
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
The New York Times

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who's in a battle for his political life, has been a hot topic for days among conspiracy theorists in Iraq, as rumors spread that he had been the victim of an assassination attempt.

Al-Maliki appeared Sunday night on TV but didn't mention the assassination rumors.

He was hospitalized Wednesday at a Baghdad hospital and apparently underwent a surgical procedure. One aide to al-Maliki said the prime minister had a cyst on his stomach removed.

But al-Maliki was treated in central Baghdad and not a fancy facility in the Green Zone, causing some conspiracy theorists to surmise that he was taken to the nearest hospital after being shot.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-iraqrumor_16int.ART.State.Edition2.4bb4b03.html

Hmmm.. it does discount the fact he went into hospital for an operation, doesn't it?
I mean.. if it wasn't being shot.. still... he appears to be the only candidate in hospital for an operation.
Hmmm.. your thoughts on his "cyst"? Would that be stress related? Like an ulcer, sort of?
Does that mean they are admitting that Maliki has cancer? Cancerous cyst? Hmmm..
Do they have a VP in case.. you know.. just in case?
Gotta go, will reply to yours reply later.

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 4:00 AM


Roger wrote:

The last days of Malaki and he has some bodily disfunction.

Maybe trying to pull in symphaty?

A true story aboout the Swedish King Gustav III.

Gustav lived during the time when the style manners and culture of the French court was the fashion all over Europe.

Gustav had taken in too much of that style that he started to loose touch with the real word.

He had elaborate balls, galas and festivities where everything was in accordance with the court procedures of the time.

He never missed one, and had them so often that it started to consume his reality. When state matters was discussed he set it up in a theatrical fashion, same when military matters was on the table, Gustav always made a spectacular entree, and everybody bowed and went through a very long curtesy routine.

He started a war with Russia mostly for the theatrical value of it, it ended up an a draw.

The war was seen as a victory and songs and thetrical plays recounted the heroes and their deeds.

The reality was different, there was starvig population and heavy taxes.

It could not be said openly but his popularity have been going down for a long time, and for the first time, people started to plot for his life.

Litle bit like Malaki, living in his own reality bubble where everybody in his nation is not part of his agenda.

There was this masquerade, in a location just across the Castle, where the king and all the guests were dancing on the floor to the popular dances of the time. Everybody had a mask on, and the light was dim, when suddenly a shot ecohed in the room, there was a lot of people , the light was turned up, and laying in the middle of the floor was the king severly wonded by a pistol shot, a pistol was found on the floor.

The king live for about 10 days but succumbed to his wounds.

Malaki and Gustav the III had a completely different political scenario, but one phenomenon happend when Gustav the III was shot, that may also be of benefit for Malaki.

Once the king was wounded, it was like a switch, no one disliked him no more, get well greetings came from everywhere, and people came from near and far to hope for his quick recovery.

If Malaki got shot, or have a cyst, we will see what the deal is shortly, you can not have a secret in Baghdad.

He may however have scored some symphathy points , that may help him in his future political life.

In Malakis case, however, if he stay alive, BUT LEAVE the political scene, he will most probably just be a face that will just fade away.

And, yes they got Gustavs assasin.

When the shot happend, a quick police captain made sure all the doors was quickly locked, ordered everybody to the floor, and order them to take the masks off. No one could leave until his persona had been verified. If there was no one there to verify it, they sent for a person that knew him, this went on until everybody was accounted for.

The pistol was shown to all the weapon smiths in town. Sure enough, one weapon repair man recognized the gun because he had made some work on it some weeks back.

The name of the customer matched a name on the persons list at the masquerade.

They got him, he confessed, he claimed that there was a bigger group involved but would not give out the name of his co conspirators. He got a fast trial and he hanged.

-- March 17, 2010 7:18 AM


Anonymous wrote:

The true test of a democracy is not always what the winner does. It's what the loser does.

-- March 17, 2010 9:54 AM


Sara wrote:

Hmm.. interesting scenerio, thanks, Roger.
In an article from yesterday I posted above, It states someone saying, quote,

"He said al-Maliki's allegations could reflect the prime minister's coalition realizing their lead is not as strong as once believed. Electoral commission official Saad al-Rawi confirmed the commission had received al-Maliki's complaint but said it was one of many to come in without concrete evidence. Others suspect al-Maliki's complaints have less to do with fraud concerns and more to do with improving his position for the months of political wrangling likely to follow the release of official results."

So the sympathy idea you brought out has, to my mind, real merit. The discarded ballots found in a field were ALL marked with Allawi.. can't fake that. But vague allegations that there was fraud against Maliki too, with no concrete evidence, sounds a bit fishy and fits with the idea of getting sympathy and improving his political hand, rather than any real concern about fraud. Maliki has continually said there is no real concern with fraud, and now, to make his own allegations, it is just like jumping on a bandwagon. Perhaps as you say, it is just an attempt to see if he can get ahead that way by playing on people's sympathy. Maliki's reasoning appears to be - "It appears to be working for the guy legitimately having fraud against his party, why not try and call in that card for the Maliki party, too." If that is the way it truly is, I hope it won't work and the Iraqi people see through these unsubstantiated claims and only go with what has a basis in concrete proof. Again, the presentation to the EU Parliament today should be interesting,
QUOTE:

Struan Stevenson, the president of the EU delegation to Iraq, said Friday the "steady flow of (fraud) allegations has now become a flood."

Stevenson said he received "first-hand accounts" of ballot stuffing that benefited Maliki's State of Law coalition in Sunni neighbors in the Iraqi capital. "Many thousands" of ballots papers for Iraqiya, meanwhile, were discovered in a Baghdad trash heap, he added.

Stevenson said had would deliver a "large dossier of evidence" highlighting the level of fraud to the European Parliament March 17.

http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news&rid=113119

Notice the statement that the "ballot stuffing benefited Maliki's State of Law coalition" in the capital city of Baghdad, not Allawi.
That is where MOST of the seats are located, Baghdad.
Reports have said that the one who takes Baghdad will win.

Stevenson said had would deliver a "large dossier of evidence" highlighting the level of fraud to the European Parliament March 17.

It should be interesting to see..

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 10:11 AM


panhandler wrote:

You know Rob, you must have flunked math when you attended school, if they do a zero lop, and the key word here is "if", the current value of a 25000 dinar note is, let's say for all intents and purposes, 20 bucks, and an Iraqi goes to the bank to convert his 25000 note, at the current value, he will get a 25 dinar note worth about .02, now even the Iraqis are smarter than that, what happened to the other 19.98. . .was the dinar devalued. . . .I don't think so. . .so wise up and see the writing on the wall, like I said before. . ."it's not apples for oranges". . . "it's pound for pound". . .would you walk into a Bank of America with a 100.00 dollar bill and ask them to change it for you, and when they handed you .10 and told you they loped off three zeros, so here's your dime. . .what would you say to that? ? ? a penny for your thoughts. . .lol. . .P.H.

-- March 17, 2010 10:11 AM


Anonymous wrote:

Allawi Personal Life:

Allawi's first wife was named Athour. He divorced her in 1981 in the wake of the assassination attempt against him in 1978. He later remarried. His wife lives in London with their two daughters, born around 1988 and 1989, and son, born around 1996 named Hamza Allawi.[23]

When he first came to England years ago he was married to an Iraqi Catholic whose father was one of the top pilots in Iraq. He faced several assassination attempts in England and throughout the Middle-East by agents of Saddam's regime

-- March 17, 2010 10:15 AM


Sara wrote:

PM, now trailing in Iraq vote count, cries fraud
Ahmed Rasheed, BAGHDAD
Wed Mar 17, 2010

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Supporters of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki complained of vote fraud Wednesday after new but incomplete results from a March 7 election showed their candidate trailing secularist challenger Iyad Allawi.

Allawi, who served as interim prime minister from 2004-05, could still lose his narrow edge over Maliki, a Shi'ite whose law-and-order message has put him ahead in seven of 18 provinces, including the electoral prizes Baghdad and Basra.

But no matter what the final outcome, Allawi's strong showing, particularly among minority Sunnis resentful of the dominance of Shi'ite religious parties since 2003, has broad implications for the formation of the next government and stability in the country once U.S. troops withdraw.

Allawi's cross-sectarian Iraqiya list is leading in five provinces, and his nationwide edge is 9,000 votes. Trailing the front runners are the Shi'ite Iraqi National Alliance (INA) and Kurdish parties which dominate Iraq's Kurdish north.

It is too early to say who Iraq's next coalition government will include, and the weeks or months of charged negotiations ahead may become even more fraught if, as the close race suggests, the results are challenged by those who lose out.

Ali al-Adeeb, a close Maliki ally, said the premier's State of Law bloc had been tipped off by election workers that votes were being manipulated in favor of a competitor he declined to name. The bloc has asked for a recount in Baghdad, where Maliki's lead has steadily narrowed.

"Only when a recount and review is completed can we decide if IHEC's tally of our votes is accurate or not," he said. The Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) said the count was fair and included multiple checks against fraud.

"The most recent preliminary results show a close race between major lists. That explains their fears and misgivings," said Karim al-Tamimi, an IHEC commissioner.

IHEC, along with U.N. officials advising them, have downplayed allegations of fraud, which until now had mainly come from Allawi's camp. Almost 2,000 complaints have been logged, fewer than in Iraq's provincial polls in January 2009. "Systemic fraud is virtually impossible," a western official said on condition of anonymity, suggesting the sheer complexity of Iraq's new voting system was itself an obstacle to fraud.

Support among Sunnis for Maliki, who has tried to market himself as a non-sectarian nationalist, was weakened when he supported a ban of candidates suspected of links to Saddam's Baath party, including a popular Sunni on Allawi's list.

"Sectarianism hasn't ended fully, but there has been a big change in the way people ... choose their politicians," said Nabeel Mohammad Saleem, a professor at Baghdad University.

In Kirkuk, the disputed province that is Iraq's northern oil hub, Allawi holds the thinnest of leads over a bloc of Kurdish parties that want to fold Kirkuk into their semi-autonomous enclave.

But the picture in Kirkuk, like the rest of Iraq, could change. IHEC has yet to announce vote tallies for Iraqis living abroad and from 'special' voting that included soldiers, police, prison inmates and hospital patients and staff.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62F4TR20100317?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FworldNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+International%29

-- March 17, 2010 10:27 AM


Sara wrote:

WOW! I never..
Thought I should just post this, you should read the whole thing (link below):

===

Census threat: $5,000 fines
U.S. congressman slams 'Big Brother' questions
Posted: March 16, 2010

How many people live in your home? Are any of them Hispanic? Are the people who live in your home citizens? How big is your home? Do you have difficulty making decisions or climbing stairs? How much do you pay for your sewage system? Are you married? What's your rent or mortgage payment? Do you own an automobile? Are you on food stamps? How much money do you make?

These are just a sample of the highly detailed and personal questions asked in the mandatory American Community Survey the U.S. Census Bureau will send to a sample of some 3 million U.S. households in addition to the 2010 Census.

Refusing to answer the questions or answering them incorrectly will subject citizens to hefty fines.

The U.S. Census website for the American Community Survey warns that under Title 13 of the U.S. Code, Section 221, anyone who refuses to answer the 11-page 48-question survey, or who answers the questions with false information, will be subject to a possible $5,000 fine.

As WND reported last year, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, introduced H.R. 3131 to make participation in the extended ACS survey voluntary.

In an e-mail to WND, Poe repeated his charge that the American Community Survey amounts to an Obama administration attempt to create a "government dossier on American citizens."

Unable to move the resolution through a Democratic Party-controlled House of Representatives, Poe continues to argue that the law should be changed to make the American Community Survey voluntary.

"The federal government has a constitutional duty to count the number of people in the United States every 10 years," Poe told WND. "But the federal government has no business keeping a comprehensive personal profile on every American citizen.

"The government can take this detailed information about each person who answers the American Community Survey and use that information for its own purposes," he said. "This is Big Brother at its worst. To me, it's an invasion of privacy by the federal government all in the name of taking care of us."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=128409

-- March 17, 2010 11:50 AM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

I say fine me. I will never pay those fines. Why do I want to answer questions from a neo-con fascist regime bent on destroying our freedom in favor of government control? No need to answer, the question is rhetorical.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 17, 2010 2:19 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Hey Census Rob, you sure have been conned by Republicans about health care. Americans die young. Other nationalities live longer than us. Even Puerto Ricans live longer than us. We have private health but we die young. What does that say? 37 countries beat us in life expectancy. They all have socialized medicine. Even socialist Cuba has better health care than we do. Even they outlive us. What does that say? Facts are facts:

*

[edit] List by the United Nations (2005-2010)
Male Life Expectancy
Female Life Expectancy
Rank ↓ Country (State/territory) ↓ Life expectancy at birth (years)
Overall ↓ Life expectancy at birth (years)
Male ↓ Life expectancy at birth (years)
Female ↓
1 Japan 82.6 79.0 86.1
2 Hong Kong 82.2 79.4 85.1
3 Iceland 81.8 80.2 83.3
4 Switzerland 81.7 79.0 84.2
5 Australia 81.2 78.9 83.6
6 Spain 80.9 77.7 84.2
7 Sweden 80.9 78.7 83.0
8 Israel 80.7 78.5 82.8
9 Macau 80.7 78.5 82.8
10 France (metropolitan) 80.7 77.1 84.1
11 Canada 80.7 78.3 82.9
12 Italy 80.5 77.5 83.5
13 New Zealand 80.2 78.2 82.2
14 Norway 80.2 77.8 82.5
15 Singapore 80.0 78.0 81.9
16 Austria 79.8 76.9 82.6
17 Netherlands 79.8 77.5 81.9
18 Martinique ( France) 79.5 76.5 82.3
19 Greece 79.5 77.1 81.9
20 Belgium 79.4 76.5 82.3
21 Malta 79.4 77.3 81.3
22 United Kingdom 79.4 77.2 81.6
23 Germany 79.4 76.5 82.1
24 U.S. Virgin Islands ( US) 79.4 75.5 83.3
25 Finland 79.3 76.1 82.4
26 Guadeloupe ( France) 79.2 76.0 82.2
27 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey) ( UK) 79.0 76.6 81.5
28 Cyprus 79.0 76.5 81.6
29 Ireland 78.9 76.5 81.3
30 Costa Rica 78.8 76.5 81.2
31 Puerto Rico ( US) 78.7 74.7 82.7
32 Luxembourg 78.7 75.7 81.6
33 United Arab Emirates 78.7 77.2 81.5
34 South Korea 78.6 75.0 82.2
35 Chile 78.6 75.5 81.5
36 Denmark 78.3 76.0 80.6
37 Cuba 78.3 76.2 80.4
38 United States 78.2 75.6 80.8

Republican private health care cons Americans so they can make big profits, and leave families with cancer to die. Then I guess Republicans go to church on the weekend to feel so good, so compassionate, so Christian, and they don't even see the moral contradiction, of letting widows and orphans die. Remember: that could be your sister dying with a pre-existing condition they refuse to cover. All the countries that outlives America have less money than America. This means they can't afford to spend much on health care, compared to America. Yet they keep beating us. Republican fools will tell you private health care will bankrupt America. Well then why can all these other countries afford it? Census Rob you are a fool for repeating Republican nonsense.

What would Jesus do?

-- March 17, 2010 2:49 PM


Sara wrote:

Census Guy;

It is just POSSIBLE that lifestyle and dietary choices may have a greater affect upon those statistics on how long people live, not just government provision of end of life healthcare. The issue may be the McDonalds many Americans consume regularly, not a lack of government provided healthcare. Note who made the top marks.. how many sodas and American style hamburgers do you think the Japanese eat? Iceland (they eat FISH, and lots of it, their number one goods export)? Switzerland? - sure, they chow down on Big Macs for lunch - NOT. It is far more likely that disease corresponds to poor health choices, something the Obama Administration seems to understand very well.. so that they want to try and force better food and lifestyle choices using Healthcare as their vehicle - much like those who are contemplating the idea of restricting ALL salt use in restaurant foods in NY recently:

===

Chefs Call Proposed New York Salt Ban 'Absurd'
Wednesday, 10 Mar 2010
By ARUN KRISTIAN DAS / MyFox New York

MYFOXNY.COM - Some New York City chefs and restaurant owners are taking aim at a bill introduced in the New York Legislature that, if passed, would ban the use of salt in restaurant cooking.

"No owner or operator of a restaurant in this state shall use salt in any form in the preparation of any food for consumption by customers of such restaurant, including food prepared to be consumed on the premises of such restaurant or off of such premises," the bill, A. 10129 , states in part.

The legislation, which Assemblyman Felix Ortiz , D-Brooklyn, introduced on March 5, would fine restaurants $1,000 for each violation.

"The consumer needs to make their own health choices. Just as doctors and the occasional visit to a hospital can't truly control how a person chooses to maintain their health, neither can chefs nor the occasional visit to a restaurant," said Jeff Nathan, the executive chef and co-owner of Abigael's on Broadway. "Regulating restaurants will not solve this health issue."

Many chefs and restaurant owners said they are tired of politicians dictating what they can serve and what people can eat.

"Chefs would be handcuffed in their food preparation, and many are already in open rebellion over this legislation," said Orit Sklar, of My Food My Choice. "Ortiz and fellow anti-salt zealot Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York City seek to undermine the food and restaurant business in the entire state."

The American Heart Association encourages Americans to reduce their sodium intake and has advocated the reduction of sodium used by food manufacturers and restaurants by 50 percent over a 10-year period.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_york_state/chefs-call-proposed-new-york-salt-ban-absurd-20100310-akd

The emphasis for Americans is SELF CONTROL, not government control. Such measures as this may have a good idea behind it, a noble goal - to help create longer, healthier lives.. but the WAY they are trying to achieve it - through government control - is unlikely to be popular in the land of the free and the home of the brave. This is a case wher the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is not the intention Americans dislike, it is the grab of control over American individualism. Americans believe that "The consumer needs to make their own health choices," and there are millions of Americans making very good ones, too. But Americans value the freedom to choose (or not) as they wish - including the ability to choose a double decker heart attack burger that lessens life expectancy statistics or a healthy organically prepared (and salted) restaurant meal. Most Americans say they would rather die younger rather than allow the government to dictate what they eat down to whether they can have salt on their food.. or even if they have the option of eating a deliciously prepared chef's salad with handmade salty croutons in it or salted french fries through the local takeout. That argument is not likely to be taking place in Japan, the number one best on the your list of life expectancy, now, is it? But good luck getting Americans to have fast food sushi instead. If it were viable, the idea of fast food sushi would have taken off already and be on par as a healthy alternative choice to burgers, fries and pop/shakes. Life expectancy statistics SHOULD be improved for America.. but only by those who are informed of better health choices and willing to make a personal change for the better, not by the coercion of government. Why not try the Canadian government's "Participaction" campaign of getting people up and moving instead of control and fines for bad behavior? (see participaction dot com) Carrots work so much better than sticks, as the Canadians on your list rate far better.. at number 11 spot as opposed to the American number 38.. and the Canadians do still have the fast food and salt choices (McDonalds) around.

Again, I reiterate.. I believe that it is health, lifestyle and dietary choices - NOT the availability of cradle to grave government run healthcare - which determines longer life expectancy. As Doctor Norman W. Walker once said, "Most people dig their own graves with their forks."

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 4:06 PM


Sara wrote:

PS Census Guy - you say, "Even Puerto Ricans live longer than us... Even socialist Cuba".. It isn't the socialized government-run medical care which expands their life expectancy and reduces the incidence of disease. Do you know what those countries EAT? Think they chow down on transfat, deepfried and salty potato chips or taco chips with pop as they sit on their couches and watch American idol? I don't think so. How to cut in HALF the risk of the second most frequent cause of cancer deaths worldwide?? (Remember, cancer is the number one killer in the world as of this year.) You can cut the risk of the second most frequent cause of cancer deaths worldwide - not by more government run healthcare.. but by a personal choice you make to reduce the intake of bad dietary and lifestyle choices, such as table SALT. Here, even in the healthiest of your life expectancy sample, the Japanese:

===

Salt raises 'stomach cancer risk'
7 January, 2004

People who eat lots of highly salted food double their risk of stomach cancer, research suggests. Scientists from Japan's National Cancer Centre Research Institute caried out an 11-year study of 40,000 middle-aged Japanese.

The risk of stomach cancer was one in 500 per year for those men with the highest salt intake - twice the rate for those who ate the least salt.

For women, the risk was one in 1,300 per year for those who ate the highest amount of salt, compared to one in 2,000 for those with a relatively salt-free diet.

Gastric or stomach cancer is the second most frequent cause of cancer deaths worldwide - with an estimated 776,000 deaths in 1996.

Scientists know that high salt intake can induce atrophic gastritis - a precursor to stomach cancer.

Salting, pickling and smoking are traditionally popular ways of preparing food in Japan. Pickled vegetable and noodles are rich in sodium and low in vitamin C.

As the Japanese diet has become increasingly westernised there has been a noticeable drop in the rates of stomach cancer but an increase in the rates of breast and bowel cancers, emphasising the role of diet in the disease.

Lead researcher Dr Shoichiro Tsugane said: "Although there is a steady decline in its incidence, gastric cancer is still the most common form of cancer in Japan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3370141.stm

As the Japanese diet has become increasingly westernised there has been a noticeable drop in the rates of stomach cancer but an increase in the rates of breast and bowel cancers, emphasising the role of diet in the disease.

Note that the drop in rates of stomach cancer did not correspond with government-run healthcare, but with the role of diet in the disease.

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 4:31 PM


Rob J wrote:

Hey Census Guy,

I’m quite capable of establishing my own opinion and perspective without being duped by Republican or Democratic talking points. Using your statistics for male life expectancy, the difference between Japan at #1 and the USA at # 38 is only 4.4 years. I have lived overseas for over five years and have traveled extensively throughout the world. I had surgery while working overseas. My children have been to clinics and have also been hospitalized overseas in “social medicine” environments. The medical care in the USA is superior to most of the countries that you mention. Israel and Switzerland in my opinion would be close equals in terms of capabilities.

Lifestyle plays an incredible role when you start to look at the issue of longevity. I have experienced these lifestyles, shared meals and memories with natives of many of these countries and I can absolutely guarantee you that the choices they make, which are often driven by culture, often promotes a healthier lifestyle. Let’s not confuse lifestyle choices, which can affect longevity, with the availability of healthcare in the USA. Spend a month in India as I did, and you’ll find a billion people willing to trade places with you!

There is no doubt that our system needs improvement. Few people would argue for maintaining status quo. The need for healthcare reform is not the issue. It is the way in which it is done that I and many others don’t like. If it makes you feel better to label my opposition to health care as a victim of the “republican con game”. Then that’s fine. But I would encourage you to move beyond such narrow thinking and try to understand that I would rather die at a “young age” with the integrity of our constitution intact than to live to be an old man subject to the dictates of a socialized system.

For me, this debate is about establishing reform by the rule of law, which means adhering to constitutional guidelines. The current congress and administration are hell bent on doing whatever they think will force the issue. To hell with the citizens and what they think! They are demonstrating an exceptional attitude of arrogance and hypocrisy. They need to be educated on what honor, integrity and truth really mean. And that goes for all of congress and the legislative branch.

I have given much for my country. My family has sacrificed much for this country. I love this country and respect the foundations of our liberty. But never, in all of my 47 years, have I ever seen such blatant disregard for everything I hold dear. I have sworn an oath on at least five occasions to uphold and defend the constitution of the USA. So I’ll continue to fight for the country that has been home for my ancestors since before 1776. But I’ll do everything within my power to undermine and oppose any efforts to infringe upon my freedoms. If I have been willing to die on some God forsaken piece of real estate on the other side of the globe, how much more do you think I’m willing to do for the preservation of my own country? I owe it to my family, my four daughters and son, my grandchildren and to future generations.

So please say thank you. Your one of those idiots that I’m willing to die for so you can say the stupid things you do. God help us all!

-- March 17, 2010 5:21 PM


Rob J wrote:

Hey Census Guy...one more comment!

You asked what would Jesus do. He would overturn the moneychangers (Congress) and seek a house of prayer. He would promote the idea of servant believers helping their fellowman instead of legislating and tearing down the moral fabric of our society. Jesus would continue to give billions of dollars to the world to help out those less fortunate than ourselves. I firmly believe he would ask big government to "Let My People Go!", because as a Christian believer, I'm absolutely certain that we could do far better if the foundational values of this Christian nation were maintained. He would also require people to work for food...Hmmmmm...where have I seen that before? He would also seek to reward and bless those who put forth the efforts, hard work, honor, integrity, to improve this world. Gee....I even think God gave us dominion over the earth and gave us marching orders to get busy making it a home. Of course...these ideas are only applicable to those who actually believe there is a God and that the Bible are His words!

-- March 17, 2010 5:39 PM


Sara wrote:

Rob J;

Hear, Hear!
Well said, brother. :)
And I thank you for your service and sacrifices to protect our freedom.. FOR
The true liberty, true justice, and country which has traditionally upheld the same.. the USA.
A country founded under God, and more charitable, kind and honorable than any other in giving, as you know.
God is not unrighteous to forget your labors of love.. as a nation and people, and personally.

Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have shown toward His name...

It isn't over.. America isn't over.
God has more for her to do, after lopping off a few useless and dead branches.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to them which are exercised thereby.

In other words, it isn't fun, but it has a purpose for those who are "exercised" or trained by going through it.
Again, thanks. Well said.

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 6:22 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: "A country founded under God, and more charitable, kind and honorable than any other in giving, as you know"....yes, America was founded under God, but more charitable? No way. That's not true. In private donations, America leads the world, but that's a drop in the bucket. In total donation by country, America leads the world. But that's only because our economy is so big. Per capita, which is what counts, the American government gives less than most advanced countries, to poor countries, even though America is the richest country in the world.

Cheap, cheap, cheap.

I love America, but America is cheap, and does little to help the suffering in the world. With the money Americans spend on Big Macs in a day, they could probably use that money to educate the whole world, so they could get out of poverty. That won't happen. So we let the little children grow up ragged and hungry and not knowing how to read. Too many of us are too cheap and only interested in helping ourselves.

Me, me, me, that's the American way, even if that's not the Christian way.

-- March 17, 2010 7:11 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J said Jesus was in favor of small government, even though Jesus didn't say anything like that in the Bible. Way to make up stuff, Rob J. Then Rob J said: "I firmly believe he would ask big government to "Let My People Go!", because as a Christian believer, I'm absolutely certain that we could do far better if the foundational values of this Christian nation were maintained."

Rob, Reagan fed us the same balony, then he increased the size of the federal government.

Sorry dude, Jesus isn't a Republican.

-- March 17, 2010 7:17 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J said: "try to understand that I would rather die at a “young age” with the integrity of our constitution intact than to live to be an old man subject to the dictates of a socialized system."

Sorry dude, I've read the Constitution. It says nothing about health care or socialized medicine in it. It does not say the government should, or should not provide health care. You're just making stuff up.

-- March 17, 2010 7:22 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J said: "He would also seek to reward and bless those who put forth the efforts, hard work, honor, integrity, to improve this world."

Well, then, I guess Jesus must think our capitalist leaders on Wall Street are a bunch of filthy crooks, who rig the system in favor of their friends, and who steal from millions of taxpayers, and destroy the lives of millions of ordinary people, who lost money when the economy went down the toilet, a little over a year ago.

I agree with Jesus on that one.

Keep eating your Freedom Fries, buddy.

-- March 17, 2010 7:27 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J said: "For me, this debate is about establishing reform by the rule of law, which means adhering to constitutional guidelines. The current congress and administration are hell bent on doing whatever they think will force the issue. To hell with the citizens and what they think! They are demonstrating an exceptional attitude of arrogance"

Rob J, they are following the Constitution. If Republicans think it's against the Constitution, go do a court challenge to the Supreme Court, as per Constitution.

In the mean time, I hope Obama rams this thing through, down the Republicans throats. If they don't like it forced down their throats, they should open their mouths willingly. Enough talk. About 6 Presidents have tried this, and failed. This time will be different. Republicans are just stalling, to keep their insurance friends rich, so the Republicans can continue to get bribes/campaign contributions from insurance companies, gouge the consumer, while sucking people like you into spouting their nonsense about your twisted version of "freedom". So your diversion tactic about your supposed loss of so-called "freedom" won't work. The health care bill will be through this week. Suck it up and live with it, buddy. You won't stop it. We will win. You, will lose. Then, you can go to your corner and lick your wounds.

The citizens made their choice. They elected Obama. Obama is the Alpha Dog now. John McCain is the Beta Dog. Obama will lead. You will follow, and you will obey the law, or face the consequences.

-- March 17, 2010 7:41 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said "How to cut in HALF the risk of the second most frequent cause of cancer deaths worldwide?? (Remember, cancer is the number one killer in the world as of this year.) You can cut the risk of the second most frequent cause of cancer deaths worldwide - not by more government run healthcare.. but by a personal choice you make to reduce the intake of bad dietary and lifestyle choices, such as table SALT."

Sara, about salt: You're living in a dream world. Most people are not as interested in health as you are. Most are not as knowledgeable, and don't have the time to monitor salt in everything, they have a life to live; and the entire food producing industry, including the mulit-billion dollar advertising industry, are designed to brainwash children from a young age, to keep sucking up the salt.

And you think the individual has a chance, based on personal choice? You're crazy.

Say that with a straight face while watching young kids scarf up Big Macs at McDonald.

If the government doesn't regulate salt, it won't happen, and people will continue to die young from too much salt, thanks to Republicans like you, who are so opposed to sensible government intervention. Your attitude is widespread, and is the cause of death of millions of Americans.

Republican philosophy is the leading cause of death in America.

Your attitude and philosophy is disgusting.

-- March 17, 2010 7:51 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said this about health and salt intake: "The emphasis for Americans is SELF CONTROL, not government control."

R-U nuts?

You continue to say crazy things. Self-control? Americans eat more than anyone. We have no self-control. Food companies put chemicals in your pizza that fool you into thinking you are not full, so you eat more pizza. You are being manipulated every day. Wake up, girl. Smell the coffee.

Keep eating your Freedom Fries, girl.

-- March 17, 2010 7:57 PM


Census Guy wrote:

I noticed in Rob J's answers and Sara's, they said nothing about all the Americans that die young because they have pre-existing conditions, and Ebinizer Scrooge Health Care Company won't cover Aunt May, so she will have to die anyhow. I'm sure Aunt May will take great comfort in knowing her Republican friends are more concerned about private business making lots of money, than her life.

Well, I better let you go. You probably have church tonight.

-- March 17, 2010 8:03 PM


Census Guy wrote:

One more comment on Health Care: Here's a fact for you: Diets don't work. Let me correct that. 98% of diets fail. 2% of diets work, long term. That's a fact. So the whole Republican nonsense about improving health through personal choice won't work. So if you base your philosophy of promoting health on the basis of individual choice, well in some things that works, but not health.

Obama knows this. That's why he is ramming through health care. To save lives. The only way to do that is for the government to take an active role in promoting the health of Americans. The Republican philosophy of so-called individual choice won't work in health care. Time for a more aggressive approach.

And if you Republicans don't like it, try winning the election next time. Until then, obey the law, whatever it turns out to be, and listen to your President.

-- March 17, 2010 8:18 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J said to me: "Your one of those idiots that I’m willing to die for so you can say the stupid things you do."

Rob J, I'm willing to vote for Obama, so he can force through health care, to save the lives of idiots like you, who say and believe stupid things.

You save me from the terrorists, I'll save you from yourself.

-- March 17, 2010 8:25 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Rob J: You mentioned you served your country, and probably meant in the military. I have had family serve in the military. If you served, well done. However, serving, or not serving, in the military has nothing to do with this. John Kerry served in the military, and I always thought he was an idiot, even though I vote Democratic. I honor military service, but don't believe in wrapping arguments up in a flag. Military service does not make anyone right or wrong.

-- March 17, 2010 8:41 PM


Anonymous wrote:

Maybe there is lots of oil left in the world:


Science News
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Fossils From Animals And Plants Are Not Necessary For Crude Oil And Natural Gas, Swedish Researchers Find

ScienceDaily (Sep. 12, 2009) — Researchers at the Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) in Stockholm have managed to prove that fossils from animals and plants are not necessary for crude oil and natural gas to be generated. The findings are revolutionary since this means, on the one hand, that it will be much easier to find these sources of energy and, on the other hand, that they can be found all over the globe.
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* Nature
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* Petroleum
* Fossil Fuels

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* Energy and the Environment
* Environmental Issues

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* Fossils

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* Saturated fat
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* Fossil fuel
* Exxon Valdez

“Using our research we can even say where oil could be found in Sweden,” says Vladimir Kutcherov, a professor at the Division of Energy Technology at KTH.

Together with two research colleagues, Vladimir Kutcherov has simulated the process involving pressure and heat that occurs naturally in the inner layers of the earth, the process that generates hydrocarbon, the primary component in oil and natural gas.

According to Vladimir Kutcherov, the findings are a clear indication that the oil supply is not about to end, which researchers and experts in the field have long feared.

He adds that there is no way that fossil oil, with the help of gravity or other forces, could have seeped down to a depth of 10.5 kilometers in the state of Texas, for example, which is rich in oil deposits. As Vladimir Kutcherov sees it, this is further proof, alongside his own research findings, of the genesis of these energy sources – that they can be created in other ways than via fossils. This has long been a matter of lively discussion among scientists.

“There is no doubt that our research proves that crude oil and natural gas are generated without the involvement of fossils. All types of bedrock can serve as reservoirs of oil,” says Vladimir Kutcherov, who adds that this is true of land areas that have not yet been prospected for these energy sources.

But the discovery has more benefits. The degree of accuracy in finding oil is enhanced dramatically – from 20 to 70 percent. Since drilling for oil and natural gas is a very expensive process, the cost picture will be radically altered for petroleum companies, and in the end probably for consumers as well.

“The savings will be in the many billions,” says Vladimir Kutcherov.

To identify where it is worthwhile to drill for natural gas and oil, Vladimir Kutcherov has used his research to arrive at a new method. It involves dividing the globe into a finely meshed grid. The grid corresponds to fissures, so-called ‘migration channels,’ through underlying layers under the surface of the earth. Wherever these fissures meet, it is suitable to drill.

According to Vladimir Kutcherov, these research findings are extremely important, not least as 61 percent of the world’s energy consumption derives from crude oil and natural gas.

The next step in this research work will involve more experiments, but above all refining the method will make it easier to find places where it is suitable to drill for oil and natural gas.

Vladimir Kutcherov, Anton Kolesnikov, and Alexander Goncharov’s research work was recently published in the scientific journal Nature Geoscience.
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Adapted from materials provided by Vetenskapsrådet (The Swedish Research Council), via AlphaGalileo.

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-- March 17, 2010 8:48 PM


NEIL wrote:

Cencus Guy:

You are a typical liberal, wanting to do good with someone else's money. Regardless of all your stupid assertions, remember the old saying that "when the barn is on fire, the thoroughbreds run out with the nags" so when all these idiotic programs and expenditures blow up in our face and the country starts down the drain, you and your liberal buddies go down the tube too. NEIL

-- March 17, 2010 10:56 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Neil, take a pill.

You said: "You are a typical liberal, wanting to do good with someone else's money. Regardless of all your stupid assertions, remember the old saying that "when the barn is on fire, the thoroughbreds run out with the nags" so when all these idiotic programs and expenditures blow up in our face and the country starts down the drain, you and your liberal buddies go down the tube too. NEIL"

America has private health care. Other countries have socialized medicine. It's cheaper to have socialized medicine. You don't know what you are talking about. Private health care costs more. Out of control private health care costs are part of the reason America is in financial trouble. Private health care is idiotic and expensive, if it's the only game in town. People like you are bankrupting this country, because you can't think past your nose.

-- March 17, 2010 11:29 PM


Sara wrote:

QUOTE:

The citizens made their choice. They elected Obama. Obama is the Alpha Dog now. John McCain is the Beta Dog. Obama will lead. You will follow, and you will obey the law, or face the consequences.

Boy, do I wish you had said that BEFORE the election! So much for "tranparency." You didn't DARE say that before the election, did you?

As for your "the government will save us" mentality when you say, "you think the individual has a chance, based on personal choice? You're crazy. If the government doesn't regulate salt, it won't happen, and people will continue to die young from too much salt.."

You have no faith in the intelligence of the American people. They may have proven you right somewhat concerning their lack of powers of intelligence ONCE in voting for Obama, the "Alpha dog" who now says, "you will follow and obey or face the consequences" but I think they learn pretty fast. I believe the old fashioned idea that you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

As for the PRINCIPLE of the founders acknowledging the citizens of the US having God-given individual freedom and liberty, where I said, "The emphasis for Americans is SELF CONTROL, not government control." It is not nuts, it is a foundational American principle. If, as you say, we have no self-control DUE TO, quote, "Food companies put chemicals in your pizza that fool you into thinking you are not full, so you eat more pizza. You are being manipulated every day." then the problem is not with American people or their self-control, but with a criminal enterprise done by these food companies who ought to be charged, convicted and put in jail. Then their chemicals should be banned from the food supply. The problem is the corruption in government (the FDA) which approved these chemicals and allowed these things to go through, not doing their job. And a lot of these chemicals now hitting the market are new, untested chemicals which are being allowed to be put into the food supply - hundreds of them, with zero testing. They don't even have to be listed on the ingredient labels, and God only knows what this will do to the health of Americans. It is this lack of labelling which is CAUSING the diet problems - and the problem is - the FDA needs to be fixed.

But instead of dealing with that criminal government mismanagement, your idea is that we should continue to let the GOVERNMENT regulate HOW MUCH of those (listed and UNlisted) chemicals we can individually put in our bodies and give them more oversight when they are negligent with what they have already been entrusted with. WHAT?? You are saying this is a failure but can you not see that it is GOVERNMENT failure, a corrupt mismanagement, and that it is these same corrupt people who are letting the food companies put that chemical junk into the food! And you trust them? Yet, by your very own words you prove that they are not protecting the health of the American people and are therefore not worthy of that degree of trust. And then you advocate that we should trust them even MORE with MORE control over our lives, health and bodies? I don't think that is wise to do, no. They are out of control.. THEY need oversight, correction and fixing - like Fannie and Freddie, like Healthcare.. like anything else the government is mismanaging.

Your stated but incorrect analysis goes like this, "Here's a fact for you: Diets don't work. Let me correct that. 98% of diets fail. 2% of diets work, long term. That's a fact. So the whole Republican nonsense about improving health through personal choice won't work. Obama knows this. That's why he is ramming through health care. To save lives."

Whoa a moment.. WHY don't diets work? Did you not just say the problem is with a lack of SELF control due to CHEMICALS put into our food by unscrupulous people who are making it impossible for the normal and natural mechanisms of the human body to function.. literally using technology and knowledge about biology against our physical geonome in order to criminally make a buck? That is what you said when you said, quote, "Self-control? Americans eat more than anyone. We have no self-control. Food companies put chemicals in your pizza that fool you into thinking you are not full, so you eat more pizza. You are being manipulated every day. Wake up, girl."

I am fully awake and aware that these products exist.. and that the government YOU tout as being the ANSWER is the one who is not stopping those chemicals from being allowed into the food supply, labelled and unlabelled. Though there are people who may not have researched it out and have blindly trusted the government to take care of them like some kind of god or nanny state, I have done the homework and see that the government knows and has allowed it and is accountable before God for allowing it to continue, and the harm coming from it. Then they turn around and get people like you to do their bidding and get the American people to "solve the problem" by handing over to them more and more power over our individual choices - such as letting them "ram through health care.. to save lives", supposedly. That is not the solution, to give more power over us and our diets to those who will not prosecute those harming our health and who are, by your own words, allowing this criminal profiteering and are therefore the ones truly (before God, I swear it) the ones responsible for the current epidemic of diets which do not work.

Your last statement, "And if you Republicans don't like it, try winning the election next time. Until then, obey the law, whatever it turns out to be, and listen to your President." shows your infantile understanding and utter distain for the Supreme Law of the Land - the Constitution. Government is not able to dictate to the people, making laws according to whatever their whims and fancies may be today or "whatever it turns out to be" and, according to you, the people have to obey, doing whatever their political masters may dictate, no matter how corrupt, like the kings of old. There is a Constitution which the country of America was founded upon and it is that alone which is the foundation of the USA, not the whims of dictatorial people making laws willy nilly that they would like to be and then saying "obey and listen" to anyone who disagrees with them, Constitutional or not. It isn't "sit down and shut up" time.. it is time to appeal to the Supreme law of the land, the Constitution, which they are violating:

===

Idaho Becomes First State to Sign Law Against Obamacare
Wednesday, March 17, 2010
Jim Hoft

Idaho became the first state today to sign into a law legislation against Obamacare.
Similar legislation is pending in 37 other states.
The AP reported:

Idaho Gov. C.L. “Butch” Otter on Wednesday became the first state chief executive to sign a measure requiring his attorney general to sue Congress if it passes health reforms that force residents to buy insurance. Similar legislation is pending in 37 other states nationwide.

Constitutional law experts say the move is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states. But the movement reflects a growing national frustration with President President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul.

Democrats are hoping to pass a version of the reform by this weekend.

Last week, Virginia legislators passed a measure similar to Idaho’s new law, but Otter was the first state chief executive to sign such a bill, according the American Legislative Exchange Council, which created model legislation for Idaho and other states. The Washington, D.C.,-based nonprofit group promotes limited government.

Comments:

1) Major Kong

Good! Excellent! If this monstrosity is foisted upon the American people, inundate the judicial system with lawsuits. Filing for immediate injunctive relief in same should be a given. Tie the bastards up in litigation.

2) Scott

Virginia signed a law a couple of weeks ago making individual mandates to buy health insurance illegal.
I think Idaho is 2nd.

3) Espresso Logic - The 6th Sense

Scott - Virginia is placing it on the November ballot. Idaho has passed it into law. Idaho is first.

4) newrouter

“Constitutional law experts say the move is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states.”

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

5) chili palmer

AP uses its standard “experts say” phrase, followed by their personal view of how things should be. They make a blanket statement that federal law supercedes state law. There are many cases in which this is not true.

6) mark

What other states? Is California on the list?
Here’s how things are going to play out if this thing passes. States and individuals are going to sue the White House for unconstitutionally requiring the purchase of services from the Gov’t. And after these lawsuits bubble up, you can rest assured after the White House assault on the Supreme Court that the Supremes will hear the cases. The main issue here is that all these legal procedures are going to cost taxpayers billions of more dollars—and the White House is supposed to be saving money right? Sure they are.

7) Jim

A couple of people have pointed this out already, but who are these “experts” on the Constitution? Since when does federal law supercede the Constitution? The 10th Amendment makes it very clear that the states do, in fact, have the right to reject federal laws. These are the same sort of “constitutional experts” as Obama. Which is to say an expert that does not like the Constitution at all. The AP is either biased or stupid… or both.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/idaho-becomes-first-state-to-sign-law-against-obamacare/

You see, like it or not, There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. They are to be used in that order to deal with tyranny against the Republic and the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution - and those who vow or vowed to defend that Constitution and meant it - those who serve or served (like Rob J and here, the Idaho state assembly followed closely by 37 other states) understand that, even if you do not. And that is a distinction not lost on the majority of the American people. Nor was it lost on Honduras when they progressed through this same four-box order and found they had to take the final steps to secure their Constitution and Liberty from tyrannical and dictatorial rule. We are not yet at the point the Honduras was now.. we do have the judicial and the ballot box, and for now, that is where we are going, not "sit down and shut up." Quote:

The political crisis in Honduras will remind the world that the alternation of the Presidency is a sacred democratic principle that assures a government of the people, by the people and for the people. A true democracy imposes limits to those in power to prevent them from becoming dictators.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/honduras-removal-president-legal-constitution-has-vaccine

Sara.

-- March 17, 2010 11:32 PM


Sara wrote:

An unemployed woman was desperate for a job, so she applied for employment as a lemon picker.

"What experience do you have picking lemons?" asked the interviewer.

"Well, for starts I have had three husbands, losers all", she replied. "My favorite car is a Toyota. I picked the Dallas Cowboys to win the Superbowl. And worst of all, I voted a straight Democrat ticket and for Obama. So you see, I really know how to pick lemons!"

===

Loser?

-- March 17, 2010 11:43 PM


Sara wrote:

Cuccinelli's office confirms Virginia will sue over health care
By Rosalind Helderman
March 17, 2010

A spokesman for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli II (R) said this afternoon that Virginia will file suit against the federal government if the Democratic health care reform bill is approved by the U.S. Congress.

Cuccinelli has long said he was examining the legal issues and suggested he would likely file suit. Brian Gottstein, a spokesman for the office, said this afternoon that a lawsuit is now a definite. Gottstein would provide no details of the legal rationale for such a suit, indicating the process is "still being worked out."

Virginia last week became the first state in the country to pass a state bill declaring it illegal for the government to require individuals to purchase health insurance, a key part of bills under consideration on Capitol Hill.

We are also expecting to receive a letter shortly that Cuccinelli is sending to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) warning her that using the so-called "deem and pass" procedure to pass the Senate health reform bill in the House would open the measure to additional constitutional challenges from the states.

UPDATE: We've received a copy of Cuccinelli's letter to Pelosi. In it, he writes: "Should you employ the deem and pass tactic, you expose any act which may pass to yet another constitutional challenge."

March 17, 2010 The Honorable Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Office of the Speaker H-232, U.S. Capitol Washington, D.C. Dear Speaker Pelosi: I am writing to urge you not to proceed with the Senate Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act under a so-called "deem and pass" rule because such a course of action would raise grave constitutional questions. Based upon media interviews and statements which I have seen, you are considering this approach because it might somehow shield members of Congress from taking a recorded vote on an overwhelmingly unpopular Senate bill. This is an improper purpose under the bicameralism requirements of Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution, one of the purposes of which is to make our representatives fully accountable for their votes. Furthermore, to be validly enacted, the Senate bill would have to be accepted by the House in a form that is word-for-word identical (Clinton v. City of New York, 524 U.S. 417 (1998)). Should you employ the deem and pass tactic, you expose any act which may pass to yet another constitutional challenge. A bill of this magnitude should not be passed using this maneuver. As the President noted last week, the American people are entitled to an up or down vote. Sincerely, Kenneth T. Cuccinelli, II Attorney General of Virginia

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/cuccinellis_office_confirms_vi.html

-- March 17, 2010 11:54 PM


revoir wrote:

2 points:

(1) I worked the census in 2000. You can loose more of your privacy by applying for a car tag than filling out a census form. Just ask my x-wife's BOYfriend. My PI was even able to find out where he went to high school!! That was a scary ephifany to say the least.(think Joe the plummer)
(2) Concerning health care. A cousin of mine (age 67) needed 3 stints for partially blocked arteries. It was done the day that she was digonised.
In Canada & U.K. she would have been denied the proceedure because she was over 59 yrs of age. (death panels) That is the true history of socialized health care where ever it is adopted.

Dear Census Guy,
I worked at Social Security for 25 yrs. In my last year (1999) an audit was done on the workmans comp cases prepared by the Baltimore program service center (psc). The error rate was 60%. Do you want a gov't run health care system administered by the politically correct who has access to your personal records & gets it WRONG 6 out of 10 times?? DUH!!

Gov't employees can not be held personally liable (sued). But private companies can. At least you have recourse when dealing with private companies. If you complain about Big Brother: well, can you say gulag in Siberia.

Is that the "change" for which you were "hoping"? If so, go to Cuba.

I have personally seen a raft on display in Key Largo, Fl. that is 6x6 & used by people willing to float 90 miles across shark infested waters to get to freedom. If you like Marxism damn so much, hop on that raft and go to CUBA!, but leave our freedom alone!!!!

-- March 18, 2010 12:14 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Revoir said: "Is that the "change" for which you were "hoping"? If so, go to Cuba."...no, I don't wish to live in Cuba. But if you look at my list, Cubans live longer than Americans. So, on the bright side, if I moved to Cuba, I might live longer. I hear it's sunny there, and the music is good.

Also, you said: "Dear Census Guy,
I worked at Social Security for 25 yrs. In my last year (1999) an audit was done on the workmans comp cases prepared by the Baltimore program service center (psc). The error rate was 60%. Do you want a gov't run health care system administered by the politically correct who has access to your personal records & gets it WRONG 6 out of 10 times?? DUH!!"

People who work for the government are no dumber or smarter than people who work in private business. There are just as many dumb people, or smart people, in private business, as government. Most of them are ordinary, hardworking Americans. There are differences, though: In private business, you get fired if you are incompetent. When you work for the government, it's hard to fire incompetent people. And that is the problem, right there. That is the fixable source of incompetance. I favor tougher laws, that make it easier to fire stupid, incompetent people. There should be built in incentives, in government, so that people's performances and competancy are tracked in an objective way. Then they should be paid bonuses, or deducted pay, based on measurable competance. That will end sloppy work in a hurry. Incentives work for business, they can work in government too. Governments have a structural problem, that can be fixed.

If your theory that government can't run anything is correct, then why are so many advanced countries running just fine, with governments running their health care system? Your theory falls apart on that alone.

-- March 18, 2010 12:34 AM


Anonymous wrote:

Toyota is a great car. I used to be late for work all the time. Then I bought a Toyota. Now I'm always 15 minutes early.

-- March 18, 2010 12:36 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said, about fixing the food supply " It is this lack of labelling which is CAUSING the diet problems - and the problem is - the FDA needs to be fixed."

Sara is coming out in favor of more government regulation. Now I've heard everything.

-- March 18, 2010 12:42 AM


Census guy wrote:

Sara said:

"But instead of dealing with that criminal government mismanagement, your idea is that we should continue to let the GOVERNMENT regulate HOW MUCH of those (listed and UNlisted) chemicals we can individually put in our bodies and give them more oversight when they are negligent with what they have already been entrusted with. WHAT?? You are saying this is a failure but can you not see that it is GOVERNMENT failure, a corrupt mismanagement, and that it is these same corrupt people who are letting the food companies put that chemical junk into the food! And you trust them? Yet, by your very own words you prove that they are not protecting the health of the American people and are therefore not worthy of that degree of trust. And then you advocate that we should trust them even MORE with MORE control over our lives, health and bodies? I don't think that is wise to do, no. They are out of control.. THEY need oversight, correction and fixing - like Fannie and Freddie, like Healthcare.. like anything else the government is mismanaging."

Sara, you are missing the whole point. The reason the government is not doing its job is from two things:
1-people like you that are opposed to governments intervening, even in sensible ways, makes it hard to get tough on these companies.
2-big business corrupts the political process, and uses it's money and power to influence politicians. Big business is really a 4th branch of the American government

People like you suck up to big business so much, you give them a free reign to do whatever the hell they want. And they do.

-- March 18, 2010 12:47 AM


Sara wrote:

Census Guy;

Big Business does not have a track record of killing millions of people who disagree with them. Governments do. Government is a necessary evil which has the power of the sword, or coercive force, which is not a bad thing, if properly used. In the wrong hands it is destructive. Governments have that coercive power for a reason - their function is to PROTECT their people. They do it through a strong military, through the police, and they have decided they should have a hand with regulations which protect consumers, so they created the FDA. I could question and protest the basis of having a FDA as a concept, but I don't think it would go very far in reality. It is, perhaps, another "necessary evil." The FDA is unlikely to simply disappear. It is a government institution and it is broken and incompetent in many ways. It is like the illustration you gave of a government employee which is incompetent, quote, "I favor tougher laws, that make it easier to fire stupid, incompetent people." I would fire the entire thing as a failed venture due to its corruption.. however, I am far too practical to think that will work. So I also must make an effort to figure out a way to make it work, like your suggestion about tougher laws. Therefore, living within the reality of it, I say that it should have a very limited mandate, and within those limits I would advocate that they make people tell us what we are ingesting in our food.

In a limited way, I will advocate the FDA make sure we are properly informed about our choices. For instance, people with diabetes need to know how much sugar a product contains. People who are sensitive to certain products, like peanuts.. and who could die from a reaction, need to know what products have come into contact with peanuts. People who are sensitive to MSG should have it on the label, celiac disease means people need to know if gluten is in a product. These are issues which are simply solved by labelling. I am indeed very much for the government requiring labelling of EVERY SINGLE ingredient and process used in a product and not hiding anything. http://www.truthinlabeling.org/ is a good organization advocating this approach. But that is not the same as saying the government should be in the food supply and telling farmers what they can and cannot do, what they can or cannot grow.. etc. I want to know what they DID so I can choose to consume it or not, but I do not think the government should be weilding power over farmers.

The government should not be telling farmers, for instance, that IF they grow corn it must be the bioengineered variety because it looks like it will be better for consumers in the government's view (as the lobbyists told them so and have created a few biased studies which seem to say their product could be good or superior). Responding to big business special interests will make for less choice and in the case of mandating genetically modified organisms, if a flaw in the design is found and a fungus or bacteria kills that plant, it will wipe out all of those mandated crops, perhaps making some countries starve. That will be the result of the government getting its hands into the pie and telling people what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot grow. Labelling YES.. interfering and dictating, and quashing freedom for Americans to do their own innovative things and make their own personal choices in what to grow, no.

The difference between us is that I see a role for LIMITED government.. you see a huge and all encompassing government. I distrust government, you embrace it like it is your father and will never do any mistakes or harm. I agree with the founders that government should exist, but only within the chains of the Constitution which protects us from a misuse of that power and which gives us a redress of grievances when a government decides to wrongfully intrude into the private sphere of its people. I find it amazing that the same people who advocate gay rights and the government out of the bedroom, will, in the next breath, want to take away your choices on your food - what you can eat and whether you have the right to know what is in it or how it was treated. Did you know that with pork, many times the meat is so tough that they put it into a vat of softening chemicals and leave it there for four hours, mixing it in the chemicals until it gets soft, then they combine it with additives, preservatives, colorings, flavorings (some of which are labelled, others of which are not) and then sell it to the stores? Think of that next time you eat pork.

When you say, quote, "People like you that are opposed to governments intervening, even in sensible ways, makes it hard to get tough on these companies." No, it is not difficult to be tough on these companies. The government can get plenty tough if it wants to. The problem is not that the government does not have enough power, it is that it is not using that power in a rightful way. NOT requiring the labelling of harmful chemicals (like the ones in the softening vat, above) is being a party to a crime. The government looks the other way, not because "it is hard to get tough on these companies" but because the lobbyists won the officials over. It is corruption, not a lack of having enough power to do the job. They are not properly using the powers they now have.. and you think they will do a better job with MORE power? I don't think so. The current regulations give the government plenty of power to intervene in sensible ways, like requiring labelling. But they do not do it. They allow all kinds of things into the food supply and the public has no idea they are ingesting it. Many of the new ones have never existed before in human history and there are no tests done on them.. HUNDREDS of them, I kid you not, unlabelled and in the food supply. Then when the people have health problems, the government says it is because the people have no self control and don't eat a good enough diet or exercise enough. No, it is because the government did not use their governmental powers to protect the people from unscrupulous persons making a buck at the expense of our health. The FDA is a complete failure.. it does not inform nor protect the people of America from those who are profiteering at the expense of the public health. They simply do not do their jobs. All the public sees is.. product A tastes and looks like product B. They appear the same.. one is a freshly cut whole blackforest ham.. the other is cobbled together from the vat after four hours of being in chemicals and then it had chemical additives, preservatives, colorings and flavorings added to it. But they look and taste the same, and the chemical treated one is cheaper. So they buy the cheaper one, not knowing it is any different from the other one. Then they get sick and government tells them they are BAD and should cut back on their salt intake and let the government control how much of each kind of food they are eating. Ridiculous.

Sara.

-- March 18, 2010 2:28 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq PM, ex-premier in tight race for parliament
Mar 18, 2010

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and main rival Iyad Allawi were locked in a close election race on Thursday, as updated results showed their blocs running neck-and-neck for seats in parliament.

Maliki's State of Law Alliance led secular ex-premier Allawi's Iraqiya list by just 40,000 votes nationwide, according to latest results based on 89 percent of ballots counted.

But Iraqiya was on pace to garner 90 seats in the 325-member Council of Representatives compared with State of Law's 88, according to an AFP calculation that excluded eight seats reserved for minorities.

Thursday's figures included 70 percent of special voting, conducted three days before the election, for security personnel, hospital patients and staff, and prisoners. Votes cast by Iraqis abroad have not yet been tabulated.

Overall, State of Law garnered 2,448,452 votes compared to Iraqiya's 2,408,547, a difference of 39,905. The Iraqi National Alliance (INA), a coalition led by Shiite religious groups, was third nationwide with 1,859,606.

The leader of the biggest bloc in parliament is given 30 days to form a government, under Iraq's constitution.

If they fail to do so in the allotted time, the country's president, who himself is elected by parliament, must choose another nominee to form a government.

Both State of Law and Iraqiya have said they have begun talks with rival blocs to form a government, with analysts warning that political groupings could still manoeuvre to form a coalition without one of the two lists.

Iraq's system of proportional representation makes it unlikely for any single group to clinch the 163 seats required to form a government on its own. Protracted coalition building is expected.

Complete election results were expected in the coming days. Final results -- after all complaints have been investigated and ruled upon -- are likely by the end of the month.

On Wednesday, an ally of Maliki charged that the count, which has so far taken 10 days, had been plagued by widespread fraud and demanded a nationwide recount.

His remarks were a sharp departure from Maliki's own just days earlier, when he dismissed allegations of fraud as "very small," while election officials have downplayed allegations of fraud.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100318/world/iraq_vote
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100318/twl-iraq-pm-ex-premier-in-tight-race-for-3cd7efd.html

-- March 18, 2010 2:53 PM


Sara wrote:

The preliminary results show that Iraq wants both sects to be embraced by their elected rulers and that they are moving against religion-based governance and Iranian influence. The Iranian regime fears the creation of a moderate, secular, democratic Shiite government in Iraq whose very existence and progress will threaten their survival. Iraq is moving in the direction that the West has always hoped, but Iran is not ready to give up yet.

===

Iraq Election: A Defeat for Iran
By Ryan Mauro
3-18-2010

On March 7, 62% of Iraqis turned out to vote in their national elections. They did so despite an increase in violence, sectarian tension, and concern about fraud. The preliminary results show that Iran's covert effort to manipulate the election has failed, and the country is drifting towards cross-sectarian, secular nationalism.

Iraqi voter turnout slightly passed America's own turnout during the 2008 presidential election, which was praised for being the highest in 40 years. Sunni turnout was as high as 75 percent, a decisive change from the days when it measured in the single digits. The Sunnis supported a bloc led by former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, a secular Shiite, proving that secularism can hold the country together despite their divisions.

Iran aggressively supported the Iraqi National Alliance, a bloc of religious Shiite parties that included those loyal to Moqtada al-Sadr, the anti-American militia leader whose fight against Coalition and Iraqi forces was supported by the Iranian regime. Leading up to the election, Iran was giving the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq $9 million in aid each month and the Sadrists $8 million. One Iranian opposition group warned that the regime was using the Revolutionary Guards to try to tamper with the vote, and even put together a plan for the Al-Quds Force to kill supporters of Allawi's bloc, especially those in the security services.

The National Council of Resistance of Iran, which is labeled a terrorist group by the U.S. but was removed from such lists in Europe by court order, claims it obtained a report dated March 3 stating that Iran's covert forces conducted 400 operations in Iraq in February. It said that over 50 assassinations were carried out in the first week of March, killing 10-12 targets per day.

The Iranians also tried to undermine the State of Law bloc formed by Prime Minister al-Maliki. He has taken a softer line on the "Special Groups" supported by Iran lately and is not as publicly hostile to Iran as Allawi, but he did use force aggressively against the militias and split from the pro-Iranian bloc after coming to power. Political posters printed in Iran were found in Basra criticizing al-Maliki and falsely insinuating that Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani was opposing him. Al-Sistani's philosophy on religion and government is at odds with that of Iran and he has refused to endorse anyone, limiting his statements to calling on Iraqis to vote.

Preliminary election results indicate that Iran's efforts have failed. Al-Maliki's bloc is leading, followed by the al-Iraqiya coalition of Allawi, and the pro-Iranian bloc is in a distant third. Al-Maliki even is winning in Basra, a former Sadrist stronghold, and Najaf and Karbala, which are very religious and should be favorable ground for them. The Long War Journal observes that INA is only ahead in Maysan, Diwaniyah and Dhi Qhar. "So far, only in Maysan has the party received at least 50 percent of the vote, and elsewhere it has broken 40 percent in only one other province, Qadissaya," Bill Roggio writes.

Allegations of fraud could undermine the legitimacy of the election, but so far such claims have not resulted in huge protest or violence. It's an unfortunate reality that in many countries, losing parties reflexively claim they were cheated. Iraq's Electoral Commission says that it does not believe that any fraud that has occurred would change the results.

The INA and Al-Iraqiya are accusing al-Maliki's State of Law bloc of engaging in voter fraud. Struan Stevenson, the President of the European Union's Delegations for Relations with Iraq, says he has received a "flood" of reports about fraud and meddling by Iran. He says that the fraud benefited al-Maliki, particularly in Baghdad (where the results show his group narrowly leading). Stevenson says that six members of Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission were fired when they were found to be altering computer records to help al-Maliki's coalition.

Stevenson accused the Badr Organization and the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, part of the INA, of kicking out observers in Diyala Province and stuffing the ballot boxes. He also confirmed receiving reports of assassination attempts and threats against people connected to Allawi's bloc. Al-Iraqiya has shown the press what they claim are thrown out ballots, photos of uncounted votes, and accused al-Maliki supporters of electronically modifying the results. His bloc is also saying that 250,000 members of the military were unable to vote because their names did not show up on the voter rolls. Al-Maliki's group has now jumped in the mix, accusing some operators of electronic machines used to count votes of tampering to help al-Iraqiya.

These allegations are extremely serious and it is safe to say that fraud occurred. The question is whether it alters the election results, which the Iraqi government says it does not. Although both the INA and Al-Iraqiya are accusing al-Maliki's group of fraud, their rhetoric will cease if they reach a deal with al-Maliki to form a coalition.

Although Iran's proxies appear to have been handed a major political defeat, the INA can still position itself to have extensive influence in the government by offering to form a coalition with al-Maliki or, less likely, Iyad Allawi and give them the prime minister position. If the INA is denied such power, Iran may take more aggressive measures to bring down the ruling coalition through political pressure. If the NCRI's report is accurate, then Iran will try to instigate sectarian violence if the secular forces are empowered. This would cause public outcry that could fracture the coalition government and possibly even create the conditions for Iranian-backed militias and proxy political forces to regain power as security and the control of local governments decrease.

The preliminary results show that Iraq wants both sects to be embraced by their elected rulers and that they are moving against religion-based governance and Iranian influence. The Iranian regime fears the creation of a moderate, secular, democratic Shiite government in Iraq whose very existence and progress will threaten their survival. Iraq is moving in the direction that the West has always hoped, but Iran is not ready to give up yet.

http://www.aina.org/news/20100318103414.htm

-- March 18, 2010 4:05 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq's election panel to review data
Mar, 18, 2010

Iraq's election commission said it would review all data from this month's parliamentary election, a process that will delay its declaration of a winner.

The review is shy of a full recount sought by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who has seen his State of Law coalition's lead over challenger Iyad Allawi's Iraqiya bloc slip in recent days, The Guardian reported from Baghdad Thursday.

Vote-counting since the March 7 election has been slowed by delays and claims of fraud. About 80 percent of the vote has been reviewed.

Preliminary results released Wednesday indicted Allawi's coalition passed Maliki's bloc.

http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10421201

-- March 18, 2010 4:42 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara, cleaning up the food supply is not so much about lack of government power, but willingness to use it. It will be a lot easier to put the corporations in line, once the tone of American politics changes, and the Republican Party quits being so brain dead, when it comes to business. Republicans are too uncritical of business. You spent your whole last rant raging against government. You reflect Republican values, that the government is the problem. The government is only half the problem. Once more Republicans become a lot more suspicious and critical toward big business, then government policy will be enforced.

I don't eat pork. It's a filthy food, fit for dogs and Bush supporters.

Let's face it Sara. Most of the Republican political elite in this country is stupid about food, and morally bankrupt. Republicans generally have their noses up the butts of big business. Governor Mike Huckabee is an exception to the rule.

Politics is about power. What is possible politically depends on power, including who to go after, for corrupt practices. Right now, Big Business is the 4th branch of government, and it is unaccountable, and unelected, and has too much power and influence, through big money, over the Congress and Senate. That's why the Congress and Senate don't go after big business. That's why Wall Street got away with almost destroying the economy. And guess what? Almost no one who wrecked the economy is going to jail. Why is that? The Republican Party has their head up Big Business's butt, that's what. Republicans are business ass-kissers, that's what. We can't criticize little Johnny Moneybags, can we? It would be un-American. Being American is now described as worshipping money and business. How corrupt.

The real corruption starts with the Republican Party, that is so philosophically committed to an uncritical attitude toward business, that they let big corporations run amuk. Big business bribes and controls the Republican Party, and so the Republican Party can't turn on business, the hand that feeds them, so when people like you get upset over unethical business practices, Republicans leader have to find someone for people like you to blame, so they convince you to blame government, instead of the sacred cow of big business, which can never be attacked.

Shame on Republicans for being so corrupt and blind.

The FDA is a failure because there is not enough political consensus, that big business, agribusiness, is harming the American consumer. Republicans kiss agribusiness's behind, so that there is no political criticism of big food, by Republican political leaders. Republicans especially are just plain stupid and corrupt about Big Food. It's all part of their corporate suck up mentality, that trusts business too much.

I say it is time to attack sacred cows in American life, like our substandard food industry, and the Big Business that is ruining the health of Americans. Governments won't act till Americans wake up to the fact that McDonalds is killing your children. Big business is not your friend. Big business is often our enemy. Attack them for a while, instead of the government. They should be morally responsible, like everyone else, but Republicans like you seldom attack them.

That's one of the reasons Republicans are unfit to govern.

When I see Republicans start to get angry, really angry, towards big business, instead of just government, then I will know they are starting to wise up. Republicans are slow learners. I think that will take decades.

Hopefully, Republicans will now be out of power, and lose the presidency, for at least 25 years. That's my guess, anyway. Then, with more liberals like me running things, America can change and become more sensible.

It's great to be a liberal.

I'd be ashamed of being a Republican, if I were you.

We agree on almost nothing Sara, except that Iraq and the Dinar will work out.

-- March 18, 2010 5:52 PM


Paul wrote:

The census guy is such a jerk. I've never met a liberal that wasn't. They want to take care of everyone with other peoples money, reward those who sit on their ass, and penalize those who work hard to make something of themselves. Thank God for big companies who make big profits because they are the ones who provide jobs and create the foundations that great countries like the US are built on. Leave it to a liberal president like the one we have now to destroy what took 200 years to build in 1. Lets hope his time will be short, so the country can get back on track. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!

-- March 18, 2010 8:30 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Paul said: "Thank God for big companies who make big profits because they are the ones who provide jobs"...actually, 65% of new jobs are created by small business, not big business. God bless America, not Wal-Mart. And God bless our liberal President, Barack Hussein Obama! 7 more years! 7 more years!

-- March 18, 2010 8:57 PM


Paul wrote:

Thats right. It's a free market. If your smart enough to do it. The government has no right to interfere. They pay their taxes just like everyone else. I own a small business in the medical industry and started it in my home. if I decide; or have enough courage, to take it nationwide, go public, and make millions by gaining huge market shares, good for me. No reason the government should put restrictions on me or increase my taxes to help pay for someone who can't keep a job,and needs health insurance. Wal-mart started as a small family business and grew because they understood a demand and filled it. Its not their fault people continue to shop there. Everyone has the same opportunity in this country, it just take a little knowledge and a lot of courage. The reason this country's founding fathers came here and wrote the constitution was to get away from exactly what this administration is trying to build. It will never happen though, the American people are to smart to allow it. Oh, and by the way; this health care bill that they are trying to pass is probably the craziest thing any administration has ever tried to jam down this country's throat. Talk about destroy an entire industry overnight and put thousands of business and people out of work. Thats real intelligent.
God forbid this bill ever passes, because if it does you will see the unemployment rate go off the chart.

-- March 18, 2010 10:10 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Paul said: "No reason the government should put restrictions on me or increase my taxes to help pay for someone who can't keep a job,and needs health insurance."

Paul, you sound like a winner. Good for you, and the life you have built. I have a pretty good life too. But not everyone does. Do you value the lives of other Americans? I do. I want to live in a country that values life. That's my moral belief, based on believing in God. There are a lot of "losers" out there. I'm sure you know them. Then there are good folks whose life ends in tragedy through no fault of their own. That could be you. Life is pretty indiscriminate. What if you or someone you love is struck down by a terrible disease tomorrow, but their health care insurance didn't cover it? How would you feel? Or what if someone in your family went bankrupt because they had to sell their business to pay their health care bills? What would you think of that? Happens all the time in America. What kind of America do you want to live in? A mean America that treats some people like garbage? Or an America where winners like you practice Christian values by helping out the down and out? That's what this debate is about.

The Congressional Budget Office has run the numbers, and this reform bill will save taxpayers a lot of money, over the long haul, so money is not really the issue. And this bill will put no restrictions on your choices, so that's not the issue.

Paul, 45,000 of your fellow Americans die each year, because they don't have health care coverage for their condition. How would you feel about your own mother dying because of lack of money?

Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

"Harvard researchers published Thursday in the American Journal of Public Health a study which reveals roughly 45,000 American adults die every year because they are not covered by health insurance.

Researchers specifically noted that lack of health insurance now kills more adults than kidney disease.

The American Journal of Public Health is a subscription-only service. Physics.org reported:

Lead author Dr. Andrew Wilper, who worked at Harvard Medical School when the study was done and who now teaches at the University of Washington Medical School, said, "The uninsured have a higher risk of death when compared to the privately insured, even after taking into account socioeconomics, health behaviors and baseline health. We doctors have many new ways to prevent deaths from hypertension, diabetes and heart disease - but only if patients can get into our offices and afford their medications."

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

Previous estimates from the IOM and others had put that figure near 18,000. The methods used in the current study were similar to those employed by the IOM in 2002, which in turn were based on a pioneering 1993 study of health insurance and mortality.
During a Thursday rally, President Barack Obama promised a University of Maryland crowd, "Because you voted for change in November, we're going to bring change."

The United States was "on the cusp" of fulfilling the promise of easier access to higher education, which is very costly, and of changing the health care system, which Obama said was a defining issue for the current generation.

"One in three adults who don't have health insurance live one accident away from bankruptcy," the president said, his speech regularly interrupted by deafening cheers and at one point by a lone heckler, who shouted "child killer" as Obama began his speech.

The president never broke his stride, and the heckler was quickly ushered out of the stadium by security guards.

The rally was the latest sign that Obama is now hitting back hard at opponents to his proposed reforms who hogged the media spotlight last month by disrupting town hall meetings held to explain and promote the president's vision for change.

It was also a bid by Obama's behind-the-scenes team, whose near flawless handling of his campaign took him from the bottom rungs of the US Senate to the White House, to boost the president's popularity ratings.

Obama's poll numbers have fallen over the past few months as politicians dickered over health care and the public reacted to what it saw as excessive government spending.

"It's time to put our shoulders to the wheel of history," Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, acting as a warm-up man for the president, told the exuberant crowd inside the University of Maryland's 20,000-seat basketball stadium before Obama arrived.

"We are closer than ever before to building a health care system that America can be proud of. We cannot let this opportunity slip by," he said as the crowd whooped and cheered.

-- Stephen C. Webster"


-- March 18, 2010 11:32 PM


Paul wrote:


We all want some kind of health care reform. That goes without saying. I, as well as many people in the medical industry give away services every month. We all care and want to do our part. This health care bill is not the answer. The way it was written behind closed door and with no transparency is ridiculous. Typical politics as usual. You can't fix and industry of this magnitude with one big swoop. This is something that has to transpire over the next decade or two making changes along the way to adjust to the ever changing needs and technology. No doubt the time is now to do something, but not like this. The reason people in this country are upset is because of the way things are done in Washington. They have to become more responsible and manage government spending just as you would have to with a business. Spend only what you bring in and maintain a budget that is realistic with earnings. What is going to happen if this bill passes is; the ones without insurance now may get it, but others are going to suffer because of the flaws in the system. For example: reducing services offered to conserve capital outlay, rationing, reducing cost patient care by limiting quality of care, etc. Just to name a few. When you give something to one you have to take away from another. Now way around it. All Washington is doing is playing games with numbers to make it look affordable, but we all know this is just a smoke screen to get their agenda passed. Remember; large government BAD, independent market place GOOD! The only way that problems in this world are going to be resolved, is far each and every individual to step up to the plate and do what's right. Not the government telling us what we need to do and how. The greed for power always takes over and the very ones who were put in office soon forget who they are really working for. I wish the best for all races, all nationalities, everyone on the face of the Earth. But until the government gets out of the way and allows the people to prosper as we all can, with only minimum help and guidelines from the government. Then it will always be a struggle that will never be resolved.

-- March 19, 2010 1:42 AM


Sara wrote:

Thanks, Paul. Great arguments there. I appreciate that Conservative point of view.

Census guy, you are right when you said, "We agree on almost nothing Sara, except that Iraq and the Dinar will work out." There was a lot I took issue with in your last statements, like your saying, "Once more Republicans become a lot more suspicious and critical toward big business, then government policy will be enforced." Pardon me? The government is not Republicans, it is Democrats - they hold a majority in both houses and the WH. Exactly HOW is it that "then government policy will be enforced" if Republicans get suspicious and critical of big business when they have no political power to effect anything? This is your show right now, lock, stock and barrel.. nothing from the Republicans, it is a Democrat only deal. They don't have the votes to pass Obamacare, not because of the Republicans but the Democrats. Obama went on fox news because he said he wanted to reach out to his democrats who watch that news service, not to reach Republicans.

Anyway, I could take issue with what you say but really, the nub of it is that you feel the real problem is corrupt capitalists.. and I think the problem is corrupt government politicians. Let's lay down the argument and just say it is the ones who are corrupt, whichever of them they may be. And, that there are good politicians and good capitalists, who are honestly just trying to do an honest job. We need more of those guys and a lot less of the bad ones, wouldn't you say? For me, that is the DEMOCRATS right now who are standing with the American people and saying no to Obamacare. But that is another argument. Let's just say we need less corrupt people, and since we won't agree on much else, lets just disagree and move on.

So.. as for the Dinar.. I sure hope Iraq gets the election over soon and we see the Dinar move onto the forex.Then we should see the Dinar value truly moving up and down with the market forces showing us its true market value.. I wonder what that will be? I posted today some Iraqi news noting they will have to go through the votes carefully and deal with the protests before declaring a winner.. so it isn't going to have a decreed winner for some time. Then comes the political wrangling and coalition building. But Iraq is finally for Iraqis and it appears, despite everything, that they will have their own country and their own politicians they elected into power. Good for them. I hope the best for them and that the Dinar happens for them.. and for us, too.. soon.

Sara.

-- March 19, 2010 1:47 AM


Sara wrote:

Paul, board.. could you give me a little help understanding this?

Census guy wrote of the Democrats having complete power, a majority in both houses of Congress - the House and Senate - as well as having the Whitehouse, and I quote:

Hopefully, Republicans will now be out of power, and lose the presidency, for at least 25 years. That's my guess, anyway. Then, with more liberals like me running things, America can change and become more sensible.

AND he wrote, "Once more Republicans become a lot more suspicious and critical toward big business, then government policy will be enforced."

How can he charge that "hopefully" the Republicans will be "out of power" when the Republicans have absolutely NO political power right now at all? How can he say that it is only once REPUBLICANS get more suspicious and critical of big business that government policy will be enforced? The pro-government Democrats like him are running the show! They don't need a single Republican vote to get through ANY bill through into law, not ONE. They have a complete majority, and all the Republicans can do is stall a measure for a while by filibustering. The reason the Democrats won't VOTE Obamacare into law is not because they don't have the majority and those who CAN vote it in. It is because the American people will throw them out the door if they do it and they know it. These "representatives of the people" do not represent the people and the people will throw them out if they vote for this unconstitutional and power-grabbing bill. So instead the Democrats are going to ram through an unconstitutional measure to "deem" Obamacare passed, like a king deeming it so from his throne upon the plebs (commoners/lower class). Are all the liberals like this guy, living in a delusion they are not in power and tilting at windmills - thinking we conservatives have real legislative power to enact laws or prevent their enacting their liberal agendas into law when we do not?

And then, if they do this "deeming" it so.. will the American people have the IQ to notice that the "deeming" rule really IS the vote on Obamacare, and anyone who voted to "deem" Obamacare as the law of the land will get thrown out of office in November? Can the American people see the "bait and switch" or are they really as dumb as the Democrats think they are so that the American voting public will be confused by no actual vote on the Obamacare bill? The DEEMING on Sunday really IS the vote.. and all who vote for DEEMING it into law are voting on Obamacare becoming law.. THAT is, therefore, the vote on Obamacare. So, will the American people keep the Democrats - who are the ones fully in power and control of the legislative agenda - with their feet to the fire and vote them out based on their votes Sunday to enact Obamacare into law? Or, are they really what the Democrats believe they are - dumber than a sack of hammers? Will the American people conveniently "forget" that the Democrats did this - against the will of the people and spitefully against many groups with religious convictions by choosing to vote on a Sabbath Day, a Sunday, and when Catholics are celebrating Lent? Such a wicked and ungodly people.. do they indeed "represent" the people.. and will the people truly return such wicked ones to the halls of power to continue in their corruption, persecution and ridicule of what many hold sacred? Will they say that it is "ok" for the will of the American people to not be obeyed.. that it is no longer a rule of the people, by the people and for the people? How intelligent and watchful are Americans? Can they keep their Republic?

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it." The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning: democratic republics are not merely founded upon the consent of the people, they are also absolutely dependent upon the active and informed involvement of the people for their continued good health.

http://constitutioncenter.org/ncc_edu_A_Republic_If_You_Can_Keep_It.aspx

Sara.

-- March 19, 2010 2:52 AM


Paul wrote:

Sara

Your right. If this health care bill passes the rep will sweep in Nov., and if it doesn't than Obama goes down as the failure we all know he is. I still can't believe this guy made it in office.

It didn't take the American people long to realize what a big mistake they have made and this will be shown in Nov.

Lets just hope Obamacare doesn't happen; as to save this country from having a horrible healthcare system like Canada or Europe. I have two neighbors who moved here from Canada to get care that was not deemed necessary there. The Census Guy claims that so many uninsured people die each year, but doesn't take into consideration how many people will die from rationing of care or reduced payments made by insurances. This will reduce profits made by the very companies who do research to improve the healthcare in this country and around the world. I guess since Harvard; one of the most liberal universities in the country, says it we got to believe them. HAHA

Oh well! Tired of talking about this.

Got good news about dinar yesterday. Saw where Iraq signed agreement with the World Bank for 2 loans of 250 million. They also confirmed that Irag signed agreement with the IMF on Feb 24. My understanding is they have to have rv currency 30 days prior first note due on April 24.

Lets hope it true.

-- March 19, 2010 10:29 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara wrote: "The reason the Democrats won't VOTE Obamacare into law is not because they don't have the majority and those who CAN vote it in. It is because the American people will throw them out the door if they do it and they know it"

Well, Sara, if the Democrats will get thrown out of office by enacting this bill, then that would be good for Republicans, right? Well, if that's what you believe, then let the chips fall where they may.

My own guess on the political consequences, long term, is that if the Democrats provide 10s of millions of Americans with health insurance for the first time, then these people will be more likely to vote Democrat, not Republican. They will remember who took care of grandma, and who refused to help her.....Every country where universal health care has been introduced have a political culture that is a lot more liberal than America, and I think introducing universal health care is part of the reason for that.

But you seem to think it will benefit the Republicans politically, to pass this health care reform bill, so let's see what happens....

-- March 19, 2010 11:32 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara wrote: "The reason the Democrats won't VOTE Obamacare into law is not because they don't have the majority and those who CAN vote it in. It is because the American people will throw them out the door if they do it and they know it"

Well, Sara, if the Democrats will get thrown out of office by enacting this bill, then that would be good for Republicans, right? Well, if that's what you believe, then let the chips fall where they may.

My own guess on the political consequences, long term, is that if the Democrats provide 10s of millions of Americans with health insurance for the first time, then these people will be more likely to vote Democrat, not Republican. They will remember who took care of grandma, and who refused to help her.....Every country where universal health care has been introduced have a political culture that is a lot more liberal than America, and I think introducing universal health care is part of the reason for that.

But you seem to think it will benefit the Republicans politically, to pass this health care reform bill, so let's see what happens....

-- March 19, 2010 11:32 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: ""Once more Republicans become a lot more suspicious and critical toward big business, then government policy will be enforced." Pardon me? The government is not Republicans, it is Democrats - they hold a majority in both houses and the WH. Exactly HOW is it that "then government policy will be enforced" if Republicans get suspicious and critical of big business when they have no political power to effect anything? This is your show right now, lock, stock and barrel.. nothing from the Republicans, it is a Democrat only deal."

Sara, the answer is, some Democrats are properly suspicious about big business, but some Blue Dog Democrats are not sufficiently suspicious of big business, for my liking. So sometimes we have to pull the heads of these Democrats out from up Big Business's Big Butt, in order to get something done. In the case of Republicans, we usually have to pull ALL of their heads out, from being up big business's butt, in order to get something done.

-- March 19, 2010 11:40 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: "Let's lay down the argument and just say it is the ones who are corrupt, whichever of them they may be. And, that there are good politicians and good capitalists, who are honestly just trying to do an honest job. We need more of those guys and a lot less of the bad ones, wouldn't you say? For me, that is the DEMOCRATS right now who are standing with the American people and saying no to Obamacare. But that is another argument. Let's just say we need less corrupt people, and since we won't agree on much else, lets just disagree and move on."

Sara, you know perfectly well it is more than corrupt politicians. Money corrupts the entire political process in Washington. People have been talking about that for decade. How could you miss such an obvious point? America has needed election finance reform for decades. It is so expensive to get elected in the U.S. It took Obama $1 billion to get elected. Most of that came from large private donars. Since Obama didn't use public money, he doesn't have to reveal who gave him the money. It could be Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet, both of whom are rich liberal friends of his.

But who knows? All I know is Obama was a modest millionaire before he got elected, and he didn't have the money to give himself a billion dollars to spend on an election. Money bought the last election. And that's the problem. Money buys most elections, because it costs so much to buy advertising time, to get elected. So all your b.s. about the will of the people is nonsense. The people are managed and influenced and manipulated to vote in a certain way by money, because big money, liberal or conservative, controls the messages that people hear, that they base their choices on.

Elections are really more about who is throwing enough money around to win. And who has the big money? Usually Big Business, who want to be darn sure, whoever is elected, Democrat or Republican, will kiss their asses, and give them what they want, including the ability to continue to destroy the health of the American people, with an unhealthy food supply. That's why Big Business often contributes to both Democrats and Republicans campaigns. They are just covering their bets.

Republicans are just a bit worse than the Democrats, so when I chose the Democrats, it's not because I think they're so great, it's that I think they are the lesser of two evils.

Republicans and often Democrats who run for office are often scared, greedy little rabbits. Some Democrats, for instance, will admit American health care needs reform, and that people are dying from lack of insurance, but they know politics is a gravy train, and they are afraid of what you say, that the people might not re-elect them if they bring in health care reform, and their own precious little carcasses might have to go find a real job, so they cave into their fear, and greed, and might not support health care reform. Since big money and big business is behind the opposition to health care reform, this means these people are caving into the power of big business. When politicians, Democrats or Republicans act like this, they are weak, greedy little worms, who care more for their own jobs than the lives of their constituents. They make me want to puke.

We need election finance reform so that politicians don't have to rely on private money to get elected, and then we can help the greedy little worms develop a moral back bone for a change.

-- March 19, 2010 12:00 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Paul, I've listened to Republican ideas about health care reform, and some of the things you mentioned, and I agree with some of your ideas. But Republicans were in power for 8 years under Bush, and they did nothing to fix the mess. They just delayed any reform. Waiting more decades is not an option. American health care is falling apart. The system is broken, as you know more than most people. So, good or bad, Obama will act, and will change things, and if Republicans don't like it, let them get back into power, and then try to take away health care coverage from people who will be granted it for the first time in their lives....good luck with that, remember these people vote.....have you ever tried to take a new bike away from a kid who just got their first new bike?

I admire Lee Iacoco, who used to run Chrysler. His famous saying was, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

-- March 19, 2010 12:21 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Paul, I've listened to Republican ideas about health care reform, and some of the things you mentioned, and I agree with some of your ideas. But Republicans were in power for 8 years under Bush, and they did nothing to fix the mess. They just delayed any reform. Waiting more decades is not an option. American health care is falling apart. The system is broken, as you know more than most people. So, good or bad, Obama will act, and will change things, and if Republicans don't like it, let them get back into power, and then try to take away health care coverage from people who will be granted it for the first time in their lives....good luck with that, remember these people vote.....have you ever tried to take a new bike away from a kid who just got their first new bike?

I admire Lee Iacoco, who used to run Chrysler. His famous saying was, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

-- March 19, 2010 12:21 PM


Sara wrote:

Paul, thanks for your reply.
I'm tired of talking about it, too.
I found that article you spoke about, thought it worth posting here:

===

Iraq signs agreement with World Bank for $250 mln loan
March 19, 2010
Source: Xinhua

Iraq has signed an agreement to receive a loan of 250 million U.S. dollars from the World Bank to reduce the gap of the deficit of the country's 2010 budget, the Ministry of Finance said on Thursday.

The Minister of Finance Baqer Jaber Solagh signed the deal with a representative for the World Bank in Baghdad, the ministry said in a statement.

The loan was the first part of the 500-million-dollar package, which will be used by the Iraqi government to finance the 2010 budget deficit, it said.

On February 25, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) approved a 3.6-billion-dollar loan to Iraq to help the war-torn country meet the pressing financial needs.

The deficit of Iraq's 2010 budget is 19.6 billion dollars, or 27.1 percent of the total expenditure in 2010. The IMF loan is aiming to reduce the budget gap to 19 percent.

In January, the Iraqi parliament passed the 2010 budget that sets federal spending at around 72.4 billion dollars.

The country has the world's third-largest proven oil reserves, behind Saudi Arabia and Iran, with an estimated 115 billion barrels. It is producing roughly 2.5 million barrels a day, mostly for export.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6924581.html

-- March 19, 2010 12:21 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Paul, I've listened to Republican ideas about health care reform, and some of the things you mentioned, and I agree with some of your ideas. But Republicans were in power for 8 years under Bush, and they did nothing to fix the mess. They just delayed any reform. Waiting more decades is not an option. American health care is falling apart. The system is broken, as you know more than most people. So, good or bad, Obama will act, and will change things, and if Republicans don't like it, let them get back into power, and then try to take away health care coverage from people who will be granted it for the first time in their lives....good luck with that, remember these people vote.....have you ever tried to take a new bike away from a kid who just got their first new bike?

I admire Lee Iacoco, who used to run Chrysler. His famous saying was, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

-- March 19, 2010 12:21 PM


Sara wrote:

Chaos marks Iraq election vote tally
Sapa-AP Published: 2010/03/19

DOZENS of Iraqi journalists waited hours for results in Iraq’s election. What they finally got was a single CD containing all the information and instructions to make copies themselves, prompting a mad dash to the nearest Internet cafe where they paid $1.20 each to find out who was ahead in the ballot count.

It was the latest example of the disorder in Iraq’s postelection count, which has fuelled uncertainty and allegations of fraud.

Preliminary results from Iraq’s 18 provinces have trickled out daily. Generally they are released on TV screens for reporters to write down, although recently they’ve been handed out on CDs.

The piecemeal tallying is in stark contrast to the December 2005 parliamentary elections and last year’s provincial vote, when results came in a more orderly fashion with a steady stream of updates.

The Independent High Electoral Commission said out-of-country voting, increased anti-fraud checks and a more complex ballot made the process more difficult.

International observers have lauded Iraqi officials for their overall performance but some have said little attention was paid to how much time the count would actually take.

There has also been conflicting information about when results would be released, if released at all.

One day, results were posted only to be pulled back minutes later and described as “errors.” When pressed why the results were taking so long, a commission official began to respond, only to break off to take a call on his cell phone from his mother.

So far, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s coalition is leading in the tight race, with 89% of the ballots counted.

Thursday’s results show his State of Law with a roughly 40,000-vote lead over his closest competitor, former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite who heads the Iraqiya coalition.

Al-Maliki also was ahead in more provinces — seven to Allawi’s.

However, the eventual winner is unlikely to gain the majority required to rule alone, possibly leading to months of political wrangling to form a government.

Electoral officials also blame the delays on the mad scramble to put these elections together after lawmakers waited until the very last minute to pass the law needed to carry out the vote.

“The time given to us was very short. So the presence of complaints and problems here and there does not undermine the process,” said electoral commission spokesman Qassim al-Aboudi.

But as the process has drawn out, fraud allegations have increased.

Officials from Allawi’s group have said some ballot boxes were thrown in trash bins. They also said some local counting centres failed to post their results as required and that millions of fake ballots were imported from Iran.

Electroal commission officials have said a handful of election workers were fired for entering data too slowly into computers - prompting skepticism from Allawi’s supporters.

“You don’t fire someone for entering things slowly. You may take them off the terminal, but you don’t fire them,” said Iraqiya candidate Rend al-Rahim.

The prime minister’s coalition also charged the commission’s counting centre with doctoring the numbers, demanding a full recount.

Iraqi and international observers, however, say the allegations don’t represent a large enough slice of votes to shake the final count.

A Western official in Baghdad with knowledge of the process said nothing has indicated widespread fraud. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

Three independent Iraqi groups agree. Shams, Tammuz and Al Nazaha monitored the vote with 14,600 observers and have said it was fair.

Peter Galbraith, who served recently as the top-ranking American in the UN mission in Kabul, said the Iraqi system has enough checks and balances with rival parties monitoring each other.

“The fraud in Afghanistan was so massive it was immediately obvious,” said Galbraith, who was fired in September after claiming the top UN official in Afghanistan was not aggressive enough in preventing fraud in Afghanistan’s first-round presidential vote.

Iraqis who’ve seen it all since the 2003 US-led invasion were embarrassed by the disarray.

“Such delays will shake our confidence in the political process,” Baghdad resident Ahmed Ghalid said.

Election officials appeared to have at least learned one lesson. During a Thursday news conference, al-Aboudi’s first words were: “We will have enough CDs for everyone today.”

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=104215

-- March 19, 2010 12:34 PM


Sara wrote:

More Sunnis vote in Iraq as violence decreases: U.S. expert
March 18, 2010
Source: Xinhua
by Ran Wei

Sunni participation are high in Iraq's recent parliamentary election as violence has decreased, said a U.S. expert on Middle East affairs on Tuesday.

"The most striking difference is the much higher participation by Sunni voters," Marina Ottaway, the Director of Middle East Program at Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said during an interview with Xinhua.

The Independent High Electoral Commission of Iraq (IHEC) said on March 8 that the turnout in the country's parliamentary elections was 62.4 percent, which is lower than the almost 70 percent turnout in the previous election at the end of 2005.

"But Sunnis participated in greater numbers, and it has solved one problem existed in the last five years which is Sunnis were underrepresented," said Ottaway.

"The (security) situation has improved a lot because a lot of groups there supporting al-Qaeda and armed resistance against the U.S. have now stopped their resistance and reconciled themselves first with the government of Maliki and then with other political parties," she said.

She believed that as long as those groups "do not go back to armed actions", the Iraqi security forces will be able to maintain the security in the country.

"Neither Maliki or Allawi can form the government only by their party because none of the party has over 50 percent of the votes," Ottaway said.

Former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and incumbent Prime Minister Nuri al- Maliki, the two main contenders in the elections, have been in a tight race since the ballots count began.

"Forming of the new government depends on whether Maliki of Allawi can succeed in building the largest alliance. The one who wins is the one who gets the support of the Kurds and Iraqi National Alliance," Ottaway said.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6923433.html

-- March 19, 2010 12:40 PM


Sara wrote:

Change!… 43% Now Strongly Disapprove of Obama – Same As Bush When He Left Office
Friday, March 19, 2010, 5:34 AM
Jim Hoft

How’s that Hopey-Changey stuff treating you?
The Volokh Conspiracy breaks down the latest polling data:

When George Bush left office he was deeply unpopular: in Bush’s last month, according to Rasmussen 43% strongly disapproved of the job Bush was doing, while only 13% strongly approved, for a staggering negative rating of –30%. Rasmussen’s Thursday release shows that after 14 months in office President Barack Obama has achieved Bush’s 43% of the people strongly disapproving of his performance…

===

Imagine how unpopular Obama would be if the press and the late night comedians (who are at least as important as the press) treated Obama as they treated Bush.

Comments:

1) ck

It took 9 years of constant attacks by the media to get Bush to 43. It took 2 years of constant tongue baths to get Obama there.

2) Audacity

Imagine how low it would be if the MSM reported the truth.

3) Charlie Gibson

These polls must be RACIST! There in no other explanation.

4) Finncrisp

Like , Barry said, I’d give myself a solid B+. LOL with that personal assessment. Hoax and Change…

5) Betsy Ross

barry’s strong disapproval numbers comes with the media propping him up unlike Bush who got a thrashing every single day of his presidency….imagine barry’s numbers with the same media treatment that Bush got…

6) TomG

The only reasonable conclusion one can draw from this truly disastrous presidency is that they fully intend to bankrupt the private sector and force us into a command-and-control economy: full blown corporatism-statism. One might even call it … fascism.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/change-43-now-disapprove-of-obama-same-as-bush-when-he-left-office/

-- March 19, 2010 1:00 PM


Sara wrote:

Democrat’s Use Of “Slaughter Rule” Is Unprecendented
Friday, March 19, 2010, 5:28 AM
Jim Hoft

It figures. Despite what the state-run media is reporting, the Democrat’s use of the “Slaughter Rule” is unprecedented.
Chip Bennett reported this earlier
QUOTE:

Every legislative bill for which the House has used a self-executing rule in the past has already been considered, debated, voted on, and passed by the House.

In all uses of a self-executing rule, the House has never “deemed” as passed a bill on which it has not yet voted, but rather uses “deem and pass” in order to expedite passage of the Conference Report for a bill that has passed both House and Senate.

Thus, in all such cases, the Congressional record will show the results of the consideration of the bill. What is being “deemed” is merely that bill, as amended in Conference.
---

The Slaughter rule is unprecedented.

UPDATE: Pelosi did warn us earlier this week: “Kick open that door, and there will be other legislation to follow … We’ll take the country in a new direction.”

Comments:

Pat the First

Don’t think that the Dems care. “Unprecedented” for this gang of thieves just means another way to rejoice that they found another way to continue this madness.

Only the SCOTUS can save us. Them and the Good Lord Above. Pray, people. Pray.

2) BackwardsBoy

Unprecedented and unconstitutional.

3) Pat the First

It just hit me that SCOTUS is not going to be easily persuaded to B.O.’s and the Dems’ arguments after their treatment at the State of the Union Address. I would not be surprised, considering the lack of Constitutional basis for the Slaughter Rule, that Roberts would not fast track any suit filed to stop this Deathcare bill.

4) Ladue Pundit

The Party of Slavery has chosen to highjack this republic on a Lenten Sunday. Woe to them.

5) Finncrisp

CONgressional doublespeak, taken to a new level. This is outrageous, reckless, and feckless!

6) L E Brown

If this continues it will lead to the breakdown of societal bonds, civil disobedience and political assasination. This is nothing less than wholesale political revolution and governance against the will of the people.

7) Gateway Pundit

[...] Radicals in Washington are using unprecendented tactics to ram their socialist agenda on the American public. Today the St. Louis Tea Party Coalition will [...]

8) Jean

At least we held them off as long as we did. The passing of this bill will hurt the Democrats much more than its intended recipients.

9) shibumi

Linked at Drudge is a Washington Times article entitled “Impeach The President”- Slaughter Solution is Illegal.

Read the comments.

People are very angry.

10) Sandy

Well 6 votes short and the vote being held on Sunday — the Dems will have to use Demon Pass and if they do it means that the White House has ignored its own Party’s objections, the objections of Republicans and the American People. Gallop has a poll today which shows Obama with 46% approval and 48% disapproval. You cannot govern a country of 300 million people when more than half the people are antagonistic to your agenda.

There is an interesting article on Drudge this morning called OUR FAITS ARE TIED. Obama turns everything into a suicide mission. Reminds me of Hitler just before he went into the bunker. He was speaking to old men and children who were the last ones left to defend Berlin. We can win this War if you stand with me, said Hitler. He didn’t seem to notice that Berlin was flattened by Allied Bombs as he looked into the last few faces on which the survival of Berlin depended.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/democrats-use-of-slaughter-rule-is-unprecendented/

-- March 19, 2010 1:13 PM


Sara wrote:

Yes, there is some frustration, truly.

===

White House Announces Dems Will Use “Slaughter Rule” In Future– Possibly On Immigration
Friday, March 19, 2010, 5:16 AM
Jim Hoft

HOPE,CHANGE & TYRANNY
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters yesterday that the Democrats will use the “Slaughter Rule” to pass other pieces of legislation, including immigration.
Via BreitbartTV: http://www.breitbart.tv/wh-wont-say-if-obama-would-support-deem-and-pass-for-other-major-legislation/

CNSNews spoke with conservative Mark Levin on this new Democratic maneuver to ram through their radical agenda:

Mark Levin, the president of the Landmark Legal Foundation, has noted that a lawsuit was brought in regards to a similar matter in the 1998 case of Clinton vs. City of New York, in which the U.S. Supreme Court found that the line-item veto was not constitutional.

That ruling cited the Constitution and stated that for a bill to become law it was neccary that “1) a bill containing its exact text was approved by a majority of the members of the House of Representatives; 2) the Senate approved precisely the same text; and 3) the text was signed into law by the president.”

Levin called the Slaughter Rule an “attempt to amend the Constitution without going through the process.”

“Gibbs’s incoherence is an attempt to deceive,” Levin told CNSNews.com on Thursday. “I have no doubt in my mind that the White House is working very closely with Pelosi and her lieutenants on this strategy of pretending they voted on an underlying bill when, in fact, they didn’t vote on it. So that’s why he is so deceitful.”

“His boss (Obama) yesterday, in an interview with Fox News and Brett Baier made quite clear that he’s well aware of what’s going on at the Hill and whatever comes to him, he’s going to sign,” said Levin. “So what we’ve learned from Brett Baier and you is that we have two branches of government that are absolutely committed to violating the Constitution in order to achieve an illegitimate ends.”

Comment:

1) AuntieMadder

I’m shocked, too, and appalled. The Demonrats are telling the world that they have no intention to follow the law, that they’ll do what they want, or as MAJ Mike put it, rule by decree.

When do we call this a coup of the executive and legislative branches of the US govt? When they decree themselves rulers for life? When, by decree, they bring in a bazillion immigrants and allow them to elect them rulers for life? When we’re imprisoned for complaining or executed for non-compliance? When it’s too damned late?

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/white-house-announces-dems-will-use-slaughter-rule-in-future-possibly-on-immigration/

-- March 19, 2010 1:30 PM


Sara wrote:

Golly.. I wonder why?

===

Frank Luntz: The Unabomber Has a Higher Approval Rating Than Members of Congress Right Now (Video)
Thursday, March 18, 2010
Jim Hoft

Conservative analyst Frank Luntz told Sean Hannity tonight that the rubber-stamped Pelosi-Reid Congress has a lower approval rating than the Unabomber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1wJ-M2tZk8&feature=player_embedded

Sean Hannity: Let’s go to Nancy Pelosi to responding to why it’s been hard to acquire the votes necessary. Here’s what she said.

Pelosi: Every vote is a heavy lift. We have great diversity in our caucus. We don’t have a rubber stamp Congress. (hah) or rubber stamp Caucus. So we have our full airing of issues. Members want to see these figures. They want to see what the senate will do. We like the dynamic in our caucus. But it does show the impact of the campaign of misrepresentation of fear that is going on out there. There is no limit to what the other side will do to protect the insurance companies (Huh?)

Sean Hannity: Wow. And they’re the ones who met with the pharmaceutical companies. How well did that go over?

Frank Luntz: “We don’t have a rubber stamp Congress?” Make no mistake, when someone says we don’t have “X” that means this is exactly what we have. And, when she said it is a misrepresentation by the other side and its promotion of fear, the fact is she’s actually disqualifying those opposed to this legislation. I think that is why the intensity is so much in favor of the Republicans right now on this issue. And, that is why only 37% of Americans support this. Nancy Pelosi is right. The American people are afraid. She’s just not listening… Sean, yes, the Unabomber has a higher favorability rating than some members of Congress right now.

Comments:

1) Aitch748

Not only do some members of Congress have lower approval ratings than the Unabomber, but some of us are starting to come around to the idea that maybe some members of Congress ought to end up in prison like the Unabomber — for the staggering amounts of the country’s money that they have wasted, for starters.

2) Lily

Yes, I’m sure every vote is “a heavy lift” when you are going against the will of the people.

3) bill-tb

Now we know what the REAL culture of corruption looks like.

4) Corporal Vere

That is because the congress is both more dangerous and more evil than the Unabomber was.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/frank-luntz-the-unabomber-has-a-higher-approval-rating-than-members-of-congress-video/

-- March 19, 2010 1:43 PM


Sara wrote:

From The Washington Times, on how this is "meeting the threshold of "high crimes and misdemeanors.""
Moving closer to the Honduras model..

===

KUHNER: Impeach the president?
The 'Slaughter Solution' would violate the Constitution
By Jeffrey T. Kuhner

The Democrats are assaulting the very pillars of our democracy. As the debate on Obamacare reaches the long, painful end, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is confronting a political nightmare. She may not have the 216 votes necessary to pass the Senate's health care bill in the House.

Hence, Mrs. Pelosi and her congressional Democratic allies are seriously considering using a procedural ruse to circumvent the traditional constitutional process. Led by Rep. Louise M. Slaughter, New York Democrat and chairman of the House Rules Committee, the new plan - called the "Slaughter Solution" - is not to pass the Senate version on an up-or-down vote. Rather, it is to have the House "deem" that the legislation was passed and then have members vote directly on a series of "sidecar" amendments to fix the things it does not like.

This would enable House Democrats to avoid going on the record voting for provisions in the Senate bill - the "Cornhusker Kickback," the "Louisiana Purchase," the tax on high-cost so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans - that are reviled by the public or labor-union bosses. If the reconciliation fixes pass, the House can send the Senate bill to President Obama for his signature without ever having had a formal up-or-down vote on the underlying legislation.

Many Democrats could claim they opposed the Senate bill while allowing it to pass. This would be an unprecedented violation of our democratic norms and procedures, established since the inception of the republic. Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution stipulates that for any bill to become a law, it must pass both the House of Representatives and the Senate. That is, not be "deemed" to have passed, but actually be voted on with the support of the required majority. The bill must contain the exact same language in both chambers - and in the version signed by the president - to be a legitimate law. This is why the House and Senate have a conference committee to iron out differences of competing versions. This is Civics 101.

The Slaughter Solution is a dagger aimed at the heart of our system of checks and balances. It would enable the Democrats to establish an ominous precedent: The lawmaking process can be rigged to ensure the passage of any legislation without democratic accountability or even a congressional majority. It is the road to a soft tyranny. James Madison must be turning in his grave.

Mr. Obama is imposing a leftist revolution. Since coming to office, he has behaved without any constitutional restraints. The power of the federal government has exploded. He has de facto nationalized key sectors of American life - the big banks, financial institutions, the automakers, large tracts of energy-rich land from Montana to New Mexico. His cap-and-trade proposal, along with a newly empowered Environmental Protection Agency, seeks to impose massive new taxes and regulations upon industry. It is a form of green socialism: Much of the economy would fall under a command-and-control bureaucratic corporatist state. Mr. Obama even wants the government to take over student loans.

Yet his primary goal has always been to gobble up the health care system. The most troubling aspect of the Obamacare debate, however, is not the measure's sweeping and radical aims - the transformation of one-sixth of the U.S. economy, crippling tax increases, higher premiums, state-sanctioned rationing, longer waiting lines, the erosion of the quality of medical care and the creation of a huge, permanent administrative bureaucracy. Rather, the most alarming aspect is the lengths to which the Democrats are willing to go to achieve their progressive, anti-capitalist agenda.

Obamacare is opposed by nearly two-thirds of the public, more than 60 percent of independents and almost all Republicans and conservatives. It has badly fractured the country, dangerously polarizing it along ideological and racial lines. Even a majority of Democrats in the House are deeply reluctant to support it.

Numerous states - from Idaho to Virginia to Texas - have said they will sue the federal government should Obamacare become law. They will declare themselves exempt from its provisions, tying up the legislation in the courts for years to come.

Mr. Obama is willing to devour his presidency, his party's congressional majority and - most disturbing - our democratic institutional safeguards to enact it. He is a reckless ideologue who is willing to sacrifice the country's stability in pursuit of a socialist utopia.

The Slaughter Solution is a poisoned chalice. By drinking from it, the Democrats would not only commit political suicide. They would guarantee that any bill signed by Mr. Obama is illegitimate, illegal and blatantly unconstitutional. It would be worse than a strategic blunder; it would be a crime - a moral crime against the American people and a direct abrogation of the Constitution and our very democracy.

It would open Mr. Obama, as well as key congressional leaders such as Mrs. Pelosi, to impeachment. The Slaughter Solution would replace the rule of law with arbitrary one-party rule. It violates the entire basis of our constitutional government - meeting the threshold of "high crimes and misdemeanors." If it's enacted, Republicans should campaign for the November elections not only on repealing Obamacare, but on removing Mr. Obama and his gang of leftist thugs from office.

It is time Americans drew a line in the sand. Mr. Obama crosses it at his peril.

- Jeffrey T. Kuhner is a columnist at The Washington Times and president of the Edmund Burke Institute, a Washington think tank. He is the daily host of "The Kuhner Show" on WTNT 570-AM (www.talk570.com) from noon until 3 p.m.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/19/impeach-the-president/

-- March 19, 2010 2:03 PM


Sara wrote:

100,000 Calls Per Hour To Congress...
Chamber overload continues for four consecutive days

===

Phones Calls Continue to Batter Congress
By Emily Yehle
Roll Call Staff
March 19, 2010, 12:38 p.m.

Members continued to be inundated with phone calls from constituents and interest groups Friday thanks to an impending vote on health care reform this weekend.

Calls to the House numbered close to 100,000 an hour, creating a bottleneck in a phone system only meant to handle 50,000 calls an hour. The chamber has been similarly overloaded for four consecutive days, beginning on Tuesday when radio host Rush Limbaugh told viewers to call the Capitol switchboard phone number.

Jeff Ventura, spokesman for Chief Administrative Officer Dan Beard, said the problem was essentially unsolvable. The issue lies with the capacity of the cables buried underneath the Capitol complex — and even if those could be dug up and replaced, Members simply don’t have enough staff to answer so many calls, he said.

“It’s hard to predict the interest in this kind of legislation,” Ventura said. “I mean it’s historic. Here you have piece of legislation that is so defining, it’s just causing massive interest.”

http://www.rollcall.com/news/44382-1.html?type=aggregate_friendly

-- March 19, 2010 2:27 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Keep phoning. Glad to see so many Americans are getting involved.

I was watching Larry the Cable Guy this morning. I like his advice: "GIT 'ER DONE!!!"

Reminds me of something a father once said to a teenage son, who had the bathroom door locked for too long: "Sh*t, or get off the Pot!"

-- March 19, 2010 3:35 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: "Mr. Obama is willing to devour his presidency, his party's congressional majority and - most disturbing - our democratic institutional safeguards to enact it. He is a reckless ideologue who is willing to sacrifice the country's stability in pursuit of a socialist utopia.

The Slaughter Solution is a poisoned chalice. By drinking from it, the Democrats would not only commit political suicide. They would guarantee that any bill signed by Mr. Obama is illegitimate, illegal and blatantly unconstitutional. It would be worse than a strategic blunder; it would be a crime - a moral crime against the American people and a direct abrogation of the Constitution and our very democracy.

It would open Mr. Obama, as well as key congressional leaders such as Mrs. Pelosi, to impeachment. The Slaughter Solution would replace the rule of law with arbitrary one-party rule. It violates the entire basis of our constitutional government - meeting the threshold of "high crimes and misdemeanors." If it's enacted, Republicans should campaign for the November elections not only on repealing Obamacare, but on removing Mr. Obama and his gang of leftist thugs from office."

You think so? Bring it on. In the mean time, this thing could get tied up in the courts for years, and a lot of people on the Supreme are getting old. There are 5 members of the Supreme Court that are over 70. If they retire, who will replace them?....thinking, thinking....oh yeah, President Obama, that's who. Gee, I wonder if he will put sympathetic liberals on the court, or hardline conservatives?.....thinking, thinking.....my guess is liberals.

What's your guess, Sara?

-- March 19, 2010 4:25 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Meaning, of course, the obvious, that the constitutionality of this new health care reform bill will have to be vetted by the Supreme Court, which is the court Obama will appoint.

-- March 19, 2010 4:28 PM


NEIL wrote:

Census Guy:

Our forefathers warned us of what we are seeing now. The Democrats pick up the vote of anyone who is uninsured. Once this is passed then Immigration reform is next on the agenda which will legalize some Twenty Million people who will be a democratic bloc. I really believe that we are headed for a dictatorship similiar to what Iraq had with Saddam.

Your stupid ass is going to be dictated to just like the rest of us.

-- March 19, 2010 9:57 PM


Sara wrote:

First of all, it is not a given that all FIVE vacancies will occur in the short time Obama has left.
Just because five are 70 or older does not mean automatically that there will be vacancies.
Of the current serving justices, one of them is 88 and he has not retired yet, so why assume the 70 year olds will?

===
U.S. Supreme Court Vacancies
Five Justices Will Be 70 or Older When 44th President Takes Oath
Share Article | Oct 23, 2008 Carroll Trosclair

Republican presidents have chosen seven of the current justices. Justice John Stevens is 88 and has served 33 years. How many will serve that long or to that age?

One of the almost forgotten issues in the 2008 presidential campaign has been the opportunity the winner will have to name new Supreme Court justices. Five of the nine justices will be 70 years old or older when the 44th president takes office in January 2009.

Age and health are two of the factors which will determine the number of court vacancies that will occur before January 2013, but they are not necessarily the only factors. Justices tend to retire while their party controls the White House and some have been known to hold on until their party can regain the presidency.

Assuming Democrats retain control of Congress, Obama would probably have an easy time winning approval of his nominees.

http://americanaffairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/us_supreme_court_vacancies

Secondly:

Assuming Democrats retain control of Congress, Obama would probably have an easy time winning approval of his nominees.

It is assuming a lot to say Democrats will retain control of Congress and so be able to pass such appointees.
Approval for Congress is at the historic low of all time today, only 16% approve of them.
If the American people are awake and hand the liberal Democrats their walking papers come November, the approval of radical appointees to the Supreme Court is unlikely. Also, it is unlikely that the approval and confirmation of such a radical agenda as Obama has embarked upon will prevail when appeals against his unconstitutional plans come before their court.

Sara.

-- March 19, 2010 10:36 PM


Sara wrote:

Make that the second lowest rating for Congress.. they were lower once before.
Note the prediction in the last paragraph, Neil, and the words "continues" to slip... like, this is a slide.. down the big hill into the trashpile of history.

===

Obama's Approval Rating Lowest Yet, Congress' Declines
March 18, 2010
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- President Barack Obama's job approval is the worst of his presidency to date, with 46% of Americans approving and 48% disapproving of the job he is doing as president in the latest Gallup Daily three-day average.

Americans hold Congress in far less esteem than they do the president -- 16% approve and 80% disapprove of the job Congress is doing, according to the latest update from a March 4-7 Gallup poll. That is just two points off the record-low 14% Gallup measured in July 2008. Gallup has been measuring congressional approval since 1974.

Bottom Line

Public support for President Obama and Congress -- both of which were running near their low points prior to the beginning of this month -- continues to slip. That is an ominous sign heading into this year's midterm elections. As of now, Gallup's tracking of congressional election preferences suggests a close House race, and a much worse performance for Democrats than in the 2006 election that restored the party to majority status in Congress.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126809/Obama-Approval-Rating-Lowest-Yet-Congress-Declines.aspx

-- March 19, 2010 10:47 PM


Sara wrote:

Neil, you said, "Our forefathers warned us of what we are seeing now." They not only warned, they provided as many checks and balances to such a disaster as they could. If the American people are awake and vote these Progressives out of office in November, and those they elect are men and women who fight for the American people.. then the people remain awake and vote Obama out when his turn comes.. the founder's plan of checks and balances will save the Republic from these radicals seeking to overthrow the country and its Constitution from within. All it will require of the people to retain their freedom is their continued VIGILANCE.

Sara.

-- March 19, 2010 10:54 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara, how long do you think an 88 year old will continue working? At that age you can go at any time. And Ruth Ginsberg is in poor health. Obama has already appointed 1 person to the Supreme Court. I think he'll have 3-4 before he's done.

And if you want to stop socialism, you are about 70 years too late. Franklin Delano Roosevelt introduced social security, and that program is a socialist ideal. Socialism is already an entrenched part of our American way of life, and most people agree with Social Security. Life would be too rough for too many people, without it. Who would give that up now? Try taking that away from the American people and see what happens. Social Security helped many, and didn't hurt anyone. Did Americans suddenly lose all their rights just because some poor people got a bit of social security help when they were down on their luck? No. Your rights are still intact.

When all Americans are covered by the medical system, it won't take anything away from your rights. America will just be a bit more compassionate country, a little less mean. People like you, who don't care if people suffer, and turn their medical pain into an argument about some supposed abstract rights of yours, people like you won't stop us progressives, because we are doing the right thing, the moral thing, and you are doing the wrong thing, the immoral thing. Americans will dither a bit, but in the end, will support the moral thing. We are on the side of helping people, and giving everyone some dignity and respect, at the possible end of their life, and you are on the side of doing the wrong thing, and meanness, and refusing to help people who are suffering, and not bothering with giving people dignity and respect.

Sara, your freedom won't be impaired, just because some woman in Boston, dying of cancer, is getting medical attention, and has a chance to live, thanks to medical reform. Listening to Glen Beck is screwing up your head. I was watching him the other night and felt sorry for him. The man has mental problems and should go back to rehab. He is one twisted puppy. Be careful who you listen to, they are feeding you crazy theories. Sara, we are all Americans. We all have a right to life, and to health. We compete with each other, but America is also a big family. We look out for each other, and help each other a bit, in rough times. The successful ones help out the less successful, just a bit. That way, life is easier for everyone, and nobody's mother has to die alone of cancer, in an apartment, because her health care insurance won't cover her treatment.

In MY America, we help her out.

In Your America, we let her die.

Americans have to choose which America they want.

Neil, we are not headed to a dictatorship. Any country that elects a guy with a Muslim middle name, who had a Muslim father, a few years after 9-11, is a country with a lot of confidence. Confident countries come from confident people, and confident, self-assertive people like Americans, don't turn into dictatorships. America is full of people like us: mouthy, assertive, opinionated. People like you or Sara have no trouble complaining and making your views known. Dictatorships only happen in countries, where there are a lot of doormats. Dictatorship in America? That's not going to happen, any time soon, as long as people like you continue to mouth off their opinions. I think you are full of s#*t, but keep doing what you are doing.

-- March 20, 2010 12:45 AM


Census Guy wrote:

In America the average man lives 75.6 years. That means half die before then, half after. The ages of men on the Supreme Court are 55,89,74,73,61,71,59....and there are two Supreme Court justices who retired and are now in their 70s....now why would I think that there might be some openings on the Supreme Court in the next few years? Silly me.

-- March 20, 2010 2:24 AM


Sara wrote:

Census Guy, you speak such great swelling words of hotair, like how people like you through your Obamacare will be, quote, giving everyone some dignity and respect, at the possible end of their life, and you are on the side of doing the wrong thing, and meanness, and refusing to help people who are suffering, and not bothering with giving people dignity and respect. We look out for each other, and help each other a bit, in rough times. The successful ones help out the less successful, just a bit. That way, life is easier for everyone, and nobody's mother has to die alone of cancer, in an apartment, because her health care insurance won't cover her treatment.

The reality is that you live in a fantasyland where fiscal responsibility does not exist. There will be no "dignity and respect" under your plan. I have heard all your arguments about dying with dignity and respect. Killing off the elderly... that is where you are heading the country in the name of your false "compassion." It was how Hitler killed people off.. for the benefit of the collective good. Sometimes, you people slip up and admit this is the truth and someone gets it on tape. Why don't you watch this one.. by Obama's advisor where he states, quote:

“We’re going to have to, if you’re very old, we’re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It’s too expensive…so we’re going to let you die.”

The harsh reality of socialism is, unlike "greedy" capitalism (which has a lot of money to pay for things like end of life care), the reality of socialism is that there isn't any money to go around and cover that end of life care you want for that grandma in her apartment. There won't be any "insurance" care under a single payer system.. just the government providing care. And that means the reality is no money for drugs, because the socialists live in unreality and couldn't balance a budget or stop spending money like water if their lives depended upon it.. but it doesn't. Grandma's does.. ours do.

===

Obama Advisor Admitted Senior Health Care Will Be Rationed Under Dem’s Plan… "It’s Too Expensive" (Video)
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Jim Hoft

Today’s Death Panel News–
Verum Serum posted this video of top Obama economic advisor Robert Reich speaking with students in Berkeley in 2007.
Reich admitted that the elderly will receive rationed health care under the democrat’s plan because… “It’s too expensive.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4&feature=player_embedded

The American Thinker added:

Robert Reich advocated in detail the cutting off of funds to elder patients and the lower funding of medical research, fully accepting that more people would die. Newsbusters quotes him:

“We’re going to have to, if you’re very old, we’re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It’s too expensive…so we’re going to let you die.”

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/10/obama-advisor-admitted-senior-health-care-will-be-rationed-under-dems-plan-its-too-expensive-video/

You know who the WE is in the "We're going to have to.. let you die" above. It is YOU, Censusguy.. and Reich and Obama and the other Progressives who sell their lies of false "compassion" when in reality they give an early death to the elderly because that is where your agenda and policies lead to. You are like cheap used car salesmen, only far less trustworthy and slimy. Go peddle your false compassion elsewhere.. we know what socialism looks like. We have seen your Communism and where it leads to before.

Sara.

-- March 20, 2010 3:01 AM


Steve wrote:


How not to get along
start on Politics and Religion
for a sure fire way to start an Argument

Thank god for the scroll function

Joke

Life without Farms

A teacher in a Detroit kindergarden class
asked the kids what kind of sound a pig makes.

Little Tyrone stood up and yelled;


"Freeze, Muthafucka!!

I guess there aren't many farms in Detroit

-- March 20, 2010 3:16 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: "You are like cheap used car salesmen, only far less trustworthy and slimy. Go peddle your false compassion elsewhere.. we know what socialism looks like. We have seen your Communism and where it leads to before."

Oh my,... the claws come out, Sara. My compassion isn't false. But I wonder if you have any, or if you see life in a way, that it's every man or woman for themselves? That's a false view of reality Sara, we're all in it together. I'm surprised you haven't figured that out, since you spend so much time thinking about God. What did Jesus say, "Whatsoever you do for the least of these, you do for me". I studied the Bible once, cover to cover. I thought compassion for the weak and dying was a major theme. Apparently not in your nasty little version of your religion.

You talk about "death panels"....no insurance at all, now that's a death panel, A Republican death panel,...40,000 dead a year, and it's something you support....pretty callous, Sara.

Sara, I suggest if you want to convince others of the sincerity of your Christian belief, you try to peddle a version of God who is a little less mean and callous than you seem to think God is. Try reading more of the New Testament, less of the Old. Jesus had a lot of nice and compassionate things to say, as well.

No one is going to get rid of capitalism. It's a success. It just needs to be modified a bit. Things like better rules for your heroes, Wall Street, so those greedy bastards don't destroy the economy, like they almost did recently. Did you ever notice that between the 1940s and the 1980s, America never had any financial meltdown? Around the 1940s FDR brought in sensible regulations to keep a leash on Wall Street. This did not stifle the economy, this encouraged it. Discipline always encourages responsibility. The economy hummed along just fine, it expanded, everyone did better every year. Things were great. Then, that financially challenged Reagan loosened up the financial rules for Wall Street. He brought in the financial philosophy you are peddling here. And,...... we have had a series of financial problems since then. Sara, capitalism can destroy itself, it doesn't need socialism's help. It needs adult supervision, that's what it needs, every now and then. What it needs is a government and a people to realize the almighty dollar is not the ruler of all.

However, if we listen to fools like you, there would be no restraint on the power of money, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the idiots on Wall Street would eventually destroy the economy, and there would be no money for grandmother, or you. Well, one of my favorite stories in the Bible, is where Christ realizes he has to kick ass, and he goes into the Temple, and throws out the greedy capitalist moneychangers. Great story, great lesson.

So, I believe in lots of financial responsibility. The truth is, Democrats can be financially irresponsible, and Republicans can be financially irresponsible. No one party has cornered the market on being financially responsible, however Republicans like you live in the delusion that you are the only ones who can be trusted with money. I guess it's part of your general, holier-than-thou view of reality.

Sara, I met Haralan Popov, a Baptist minister from eastern Europe, when I was a kid. He wrote "Tortured for His Faith". He spent years being tortured by Communists, for professing his faith. I remember him describing to me how he got put in a big hole in the ground for a month, and they occasionally would throw down crusts of moldy bread. That left quite an impression on me....I am the least likely person to fall for communism. Government run health care does not lead to communism. Communism is a failure, everyone knows that, it is in the trash heap of history, and you are bringing up yesterday's ghosts to avoid a real discussion.

-- March 20, 2010 2:07 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Steve, your comments are the best of anyone's, including my own.

-- March 20, 2010 2:09 PM


Sara wrote:

Allawi Edges Ahead Of PM Again In Iraq Election
March 20, 2010

BAGHDAD (Reuters) -- Secularist Iyad Allawi edged ahead of Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki today in a neck-and-neck election race.

The new results from Iraq's electoral commission, with about 93 percent of an early vote count complete, gave a lead of some 8,000 votes to Allawi, a Shi'ite former prime minister with wide support among minority Sunnis.

The lead in the popular vote has changed hands several times and the eventual winner may be able to claim a symbolic victory, but no matter the final result both Maliki and Allawi will need to engage in long talks to try to form a coalition capable of forming a government.

The prime minister now has a narrow 6-percent lead over Allawi in Baghdad, the diverse capital city, but he has virtually no support in largely Sunni provinces where many are skeptical of his Shi'ite Islamist roots and condemn his support of a ban of hundreds of candidates, including prominent Sunnis.

Allawi, who has modelled himself as a nonsectarian outsider, swept western and northern areas home to large numbers of Sunni Arabs. The physician and fluent English speaker holds a narrow lead over a Kurdish bloc in Kirkuk, the city that is Iraq's northern oil hub.

Both Maliki and Allawi supporters are predicting they will get more than 90 seats in Iraq's 325-member parliament.

Full early results will be released in the next few days, and final results may take weeks.

Each camp has suggested an alliance between the two men is unlikely, making it even more important where other contenders, the Iraqi National Alliance (INA), a Shi'ite bloc closely allied to Iran, and an alliance of two leading Kurdish parties, will throw their weight, suggesting the calculus of coalition-building will be even more complex than expected.

Sami al-Askari, a politician close to Maliki, predicted Allawi's alliance would soon splinter. "I don't think this coalition will last long," he said.

Both State of Law and Iraqiya have complained of vote irregularities, and such an outcry could intensify if one bloc feels it was edged out of an outright win.

"Even if fraud was limited, we still feel cheated," said Jamal al-Bateekh, an Iraqiya candidate.

One interesting outcome of this month's vote was the miserable showing some of Iraq's most important leaders, reflecting perhaps Iraqis' exasperation with poor services, rampant corruption, and indiscriminate violence.

Compared to the 543,747 votes Maliki himself got, and 354,097 for Allawi, Interior Minister Jawad Bolani got just 2,992 votes. Defense Minister Abdel Qader Jassim did even worse, with a personal tally of only 687 votes.

Qasim al-Aboudi, spokesman for Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission, said officials had so far examined 1,150 complaints and rejected ballots from about 60 polling stations, out of 50,000 nationwide, for various reasons.

"I don't think this would affect the results or the turnout percentage," he said.

Iraq's electoral commission has yet to announce results for voting abroad, which is expected to add support for Mr Allawi, and the results of special voting that includes soldiers, police, prison inmates and the infirm.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Allawi_Edges_Ahead_Of_PM_Again_In_Iraq_Election_/1989369.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0320/breaking29.html

-- March 20, 2010 3:06 PM


Sara wrote:

Drudge's Headline:

RASMUSSEN: OBAMA SLIDES TO 43% APPROVE / 56% DISAPPROVE...

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Saturday, March 20, 2010

Overall, 43% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. That also matches the lowest level yet recorded for this President. Fifty-six percent (56%) disapprove.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -21. That matches the lowest Approval Index rating yet recorded for this President (see trends).

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern.

Each time the President leads a big push for his health care plan, his job approval ratings suffer. Most voters oppose the proposed Medicare savings and the taxes involved. As a result, most voters continue to oppose the legislation. Just 20% of voters believe that most Members of Congress will understand the proposed health care bill before they vote on it. From a political perspective, 50% are less likely to vote for a Member of Congress who supports the health care reform plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

-- March 20, 2010 3:26 PM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

WASHINGTON (AP) — Thousands of protesters — many directing their anger squarely at President Barack Obama — marched through the nation's capital Saturday to urge immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least eight people, including activist Cindy Sheehan, were arrested by U.S. Park Police at the end of the march, after laying coffins at a fence outside the White House. Friday marked the seventh anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

"Arrest that war criminal!" Sheehan shouted outside the White House before her arrest, referring to Obama.

At a rally before the march, Sheehan asked whether "the honeymoon was over with that war criminal in the White House" — an apparent reference to Obama — prompting moderate applause.

The protesters defied orders to clear the sidewalk on Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House and park police say they face charges of failure to obey a lawful order.

Activist Ralph Nader told thousands who gathered in Lafayette Park across from the White House that Obama has essentially continued the policies of the Bush administration, and it was foolish to have thought otherwise.

"He's kept Guantanamo open, he's continued to use indefinite detention," Nader said. The only real difference, he said is that "Obama's speeches are better."

Others were more conciliatory toward Obama. Shirley Allan of Silver Spring, Md., carried a sign that read, "President Obama We love you but we need to tell you! Your hands are getting bloody!! Stop it now."

Allan thought it was going too far to call Obama a war criminal but said she is deeply disappointed that the conflicts are continuing.

"He has to know it's unacceptable," Allan said. "I am absolutely disappointed."

The protest drew a smaller crowd than the tens of thousands who marched in 2006 and 2007. Protests in cities around the country also had far fewer participants than in the past.

San Francisco's rally brought out Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the top-secret Pentagon Papers study of the Vietnam War and is the subject of the recent documentary film, "The Most Dangerous Man in America." He likened the protest and others like it around the country Saturday to a day of demonstrations organized against the conflict in Vietnam in 1969.

"They thought it had no effect," he told the crowd in San Francisco, referring to the 1969 protesters. "They were wrong."

Ellsberg said President Richard Nixon was planning to escalate the war around that time, but held off.

Protesters in Washington stopped at the offices of military contractor Halliburton — where they tore apart an effigy of former Vice President and Halliburton Chief Executive Dick Cheney — the Mortgage Bankers Association and The Washington Post offices.

Anna Berlinrut, of South Orange, N.J., was one of a number of protesters who have children who have served in Iraq, and said her son supports her protests.

"If there were a draft, we'd have a million people out here," Berlinrut said when asked about the turnout. The exact number of protesters was unclear, as D.C. authorities do not give out crowd estimates. Organizers estimated the march, which stretched for several blocks, at 10,000.

Despite the arrests, the protest was peaceful. At the outset, police closed a portion of the sidewalk in front of the White House fence after protesters tried to use mud and large stencils to spell out "Iraq veterans against the war."

Once the sidewalk was closed, the protesters stenciled the message on the street using mud they had carried in buckets to the rally.

Sheehan has been a vocal critic of the war since her 21-year-old son Casey was killed in Iraq in April 2004. She staged a prolonged demonstration in 2005 outside former President George W. Bush's ranch near Crawford, Texas.

Fellow anti-war activist and attorney Stephen Pearcy of Sacramento keeps in touch and supports Sheehan in her efforts. Sheehan lived with his family for a year while traveling to peace events.

Pearcy said in an e-mail that in the last decade, the U.S. government has a widespread pattern of violating the constitutional rights of peaceful anti-war protesters, arresting them, then not pressing charges.

"We've essentially become a country of restrictions rather than a country of freedoms," he said.

Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark also spoke at the D.C. rally, calling on the Justice Department to investigate the officials who launched the Iraq war.

In New York City, a few dozen enthusiastic protesters gathered near a military recruiting station in Times Square, though they were far outnumbered by disinterested tourists.

A group of older women calling themselves the Raging Grannies sang, "The country is broke, this war is a joke." Four demonstrators evoked images of the U.S. detention camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by dressing in orange uniforms and wearing black hoods.

Liz Proefriedt, a retired Roman Catholic nun, held up a banner that read, "Bread not bombs."

"It's sad that a lot of people did not come out for this protest," said Kathy Hoang, of Manchester, Conn. "People are getting used to the war, and don't bother even to think about it anymore."

In Los Angeles, hundreds chanted anti-war slogans and carried mock tombstones, and several hundred gathered in San Francisco. The Los Angeles march, which was under a mile, was to culminate with a rally in front of the famed Grauman's Chinese Theater.

"We want to see the troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq," said Corazon Esguerra with Act Now to Stop War and Racism or ANSWER, which organized the protest. "We want all the troops wherever they are to come back."

———

Associated Press writers Verena Dobnik from New York, Noaki Schwartz from Los Angeles and Sudhin Thanawala of San Francisco contributed to this report.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 20, 2010 9:59 PM


NEIL wrote:

Census Guy:

I'm not going to call you any more names as I now believe that you are totally sincere in your beliefs, and you present your case very well. My only question to you is where in the hell is the money coming from to pay for this healthcare bill that enrolls some thirty million people into the system? I know the liberal philosphy is "if it is good, then we will pay any price for it".

You liberals have a tender place in your heart for minorities and to-hell with everyone else. I remember when the civil rights bill was passed that young kids caught a bus before daylight and travelled sometimes 40 miles to a school to achieve some kind of racial balance. No problem for you as you felt that racial balance was necessary. If I were to mention the name Strom Thurman, I'll bet that all that benelovent love and kind feelings that you have for minorities would immediately turn to hatred and Thurman would be an SOB who should have died long before he did.

Again, you state your case well. Too bad you are not a conservative. NEIL

-- March 20, 2010 10:57 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Thanks Neil,

Strum Thurmond? I remember him. He lived a long life. Only the good die young, I guess. He slept with the family maid, and had a black daughter with her. He never acknowledged his daughter, the old hypocrite. It came out after his death.

Neil, Costa Rica is a Third World country in central America, with an average income around $11 thousand a year, far less than the average American earns. They can afford health care for everyone. Most other advanced countries, all of whom have less money than America, they can all afford it. Why can't we? We just spent billions bailing out the fat cats of Wall Street, didn't we? Funny how we find money to help rich people, but have trouble finding money for poor people. Obama's plan will cut costs through detailed reform of the existing system. It will save money, in the long run. And if you have good health care insurance, you won't change anything. Most of the money needed to pay for coverage for those extra 30 million people will come from people earning over $88 thousand of year. If you are not making that income you won't be affected. America is the richest country in the world, of course we can afford it.

The President talked about his own mother, during the last 6 months of her life, when she was dying of cancer, she was on the phone every day, arguing with her insurance company about coverage, instead of concentrating on trying to get well. She didn't make it. From the insurance company point of view, naturally, being businesses, they didn't want to pay out any more than they have to, it would hurt their bottom line, so insurance companies will do anything possible to pay you as little money as possible, even if it means you will die from their stinginess. They have teams of lawyers figuring out clever ways to screw people, like eliminating people with pre-existing conditions. And that is not right. I don't know how they sleep at night. But, with an insurance company, money is everything. They are there to make money, really, not look after your health. I don't trust them.

Tomorrow is the big day for the health care vote, and one for the history books. If Obama wins, it will change America. We'll see. America voted for change, here it comes......

-- March 21, 2010 12:56 AM


Sara wrote:

Mr. Census Guy, that was a very emotional appeal.

Let me address your diatribe against me on religion.. the quote you were using was spoken by Jesus in the Bible where He says:

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it to me.

Why don't you review your posts and comments to "one of the LEAST of these my brethren" namely, me? Just try and see how they will be reviewed by Jesus on Judgement Day, will you? Calling me a fool and out of touch with reality, among other things.. is calling Jesus Christ those things, because, "Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it to me"... can you see that? Because, you see, He will one day judge you on your words which you are speaking to me when you stand before Him and you will answer for every word you have spoken - even the words you are speaking here to "the least of these" - namely, me. Just trying to give you a real "heads up" before your account is due, ok? Just wanting you to.. not be real ashamed on that day, is all. Consider what you said.. watch your language.. for God's sake. Have you really no fear of God?

Hab 3:3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of His praise.
Hab 3:4 And His brightness was as the light..
Hab 3:5 Before Him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at His feet.
Hab 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: He beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: His ways are everlasting.

And in the New, since you insist that revelation should be taken into account more:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth went a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He has on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

THAT is the God of the Bible, which the Good Book preaches.. and He is no pushover, no Santa Claus.. and He is to be feared, as well as loved. Those who do not fear Him now, will one day. ALL men will. "For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." - Romans 14:11-12. It is this God whom I serve and know, and He knows me - as God is my witness. You goad me into boasting, but if boasting it must be, it will be in the Lord Jesus Christ by whom I am crucified to this world and the world to me because "I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (2 Tim 1:12) And "I know Him: and if I should say, I know Him not, I shall be a liar like to you: but I know Him, and keep His saying." - John 8:55.

We are here such a short time on earth, then we are forever in eternity. I once got upset about the political situation and said to the Lord, "But LORD, Look! Look at what Obama is doing! You cannot let him get away with it." And He said to me, "Sara.. No man gets away with anything. All men die. All men stand before Me. He will stand before Me. He will not get away with it. No one ever will get away with anything." You have to think about that for a while. You know, from His eternal perspective, this life is so very fleeting and no man (or woman) gets away with anything, not really. Not when they are all accountable for what they do before Him at the end of their time here. And that is all that will count - how they fare on that final day, at the time when mankind's fates are sealed for all eternity. God never gets real upset like we do down here about things. He is very measured in his response, but once He chooses to rise up and act in His power, He is an awesome God to behold.. the heavens cannot contain Him, nor explain Him (though they do declare Him.) His wonder.. is beyond imagination. His ways, past finding out.

You tout the false idea that there are all these people dying as a result of having no health care.. but there is not ONE example the Democrat party has been able to trot out, ever, to prove this - I have followed the news in every case.. including the recent false one which exploited a child in his grief to supposedly "prove" this false assertion. The boy's mother was never turned away from having care and the very hospital they spoke of and accused of not giving her care said the very next day that she was taken care of - she was never without access to healthcare. So these, too, will be accountable for misleading, what the Bible calls "Bearing false witness" or LYING, for mere political gain. Political gain is not a reason you can give for disobeying His command not to lie.

It is also completely off base calling down the Capitalist system as those who are responsible for this economic disaster. It wasn't those on Wall Street who caused this recent disaster you spoke of, it was Fannie and Freddie and the poor oversight of it by the government. Listen to these, as several million already have:

The Bush Admin and Senator McCain warned repeatedly about Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and what thus became the 2008 financial crisis -- starting in 2002

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1

You speak of seeing life "in a way that it's every man or woman for themselves" - that is not Christianity, it is evolution, survival of the fittest, every man for himself. But what you fail to see is that this does not entitle the poor or the political class to STEAL from those who have - reaching into their pockets to "redistribute" the wealth they find there to themselves. STEALING is also not allowed by God's command, and that does not change because someone is in need. Once you stop saying.. BUT to that statement we may have a chance at a beginning degree of understanding. The answer is not to violate the command not to steal from the people against their will and your assertion that healthcare does not exist for those without insurance is simply untrue. No hospital in the USA may BY LAW turn someone away if they need care. That is the law. So it isn't that people will die without this Obamacare. That is simply untrue and a distortion of the facts. And those who propagate such lies will one day pay dearly for their false witness, the breaking of another of His Commands, not suggestions. That is the reality, whether it appears "callous" or harsh and uncompassionate to you or not. God has mercy and grace, but He is no pushover Santa Claus - giving out gifts to the lazy who ask for it without working for it. It is He who inspired the words of the Bible which say, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." 2 Thess 3:10. There is no free lunch for the lazy preached in the Bible, instead, it preaches the hard work ethic and charity to those who cannot work. And that He is the Righteous Judge who will hear your case on Judgement Day. You Progressives should live in light of that reality. I know I do.

You say, "I thought compassion for the weak and dying was a major theme" of Christianity. It is, but not paired with the answer of STEALING from other people in order to be "compassionate." Every time compassion is mentioned, it is in context of charity, not government programs. It is THE CHURCH and not the government who are called upon by God to take care of the poor and help them when they are in need. But Progressives will not allow that and have moved the government into care positions in competition with the missions of the churches, putting the church-based forms of charity out of business, because, as you would note, these churches do this for "religious reasons" (to please God) and Progressives say, "we wouldn't want anyone receiving care and a sermon at the same time," right? It is the Progressives and Liberal's intense hatred against religious belief and the propagation of those beliefs to others - as well as their equally strong belief in government as the solution instead - which precludes the American people functioning as well as they could through their churches to relieve people's necessity and bring about the charity needed. It is not because we are nasty that the needs are not immediately filled, it is because government has unfairly put us out of the business of being the Church and helping the needy. In our place the government has taken up the Church's God-ordained role of charity, in the name of their own might and not in the name of the charitable and Almighty Redeemer, Jesus.

When you say, "if we listen to fools like you, there would be no restraint on the power of money, and absolute power corrupts absolutely..." That is so TWISTED as to be evil in the Nth degree. The problem is not "no restraint on money." Money is not alive or able to be without restraint. What you are speaking of is the hands of people. The problem is corrupt PEOPLE, corruption of human beings, not an inanimate object we call money. Dollar bills are not evil in themselves. The same 100 dollar bill can pay for food as well as for illegal drugs. The money isn't the problem, the people are. Jesus said there are two masters of people - God and money.. you serve one or the other. Those who served God in their lifetimes founded the nation of America and set up Capitalism because they knew following His principles and not stealing or "redistributing the wealth" allows people to make money and prosper. If good people make money it will lead to the common good because they will use the money they make to bless others, buying goods from them, creating jobs, giving charitably and many other good works. If evil people make money, they will use their money for evil purposes, and in that case, it is the government's role to make sure such people get caught, stopped and punished for their evil. There is no "power of money" in itself. So Capitalism, or the making of profit, is not the problem here. It is getting the bad guys who earn their money dishonestly or illegally - which is an inevitable part of any society. It is, therefore, a false argument to say the problem is Capitalism or the private making of money, in itself. The problem is the lack of enforcement of the rules to stop those who are corrupt and doing evil. Like the youtube videos above, if the government had done its job and punished and stopped the bad behavior within the mandates THEY ALREADY HAVE, the consequences of this economic crisis would never have happened. Reagan had it right.. government is the problem, not the solution and the solution is small and limited government - as one Democrat admitted a short while ago:

===

Congressman: 'We will keep stealing'
Says only way to stop it is 'tie our hands'
Posted: March 19, 2010

A new video has been revealed in which a member of Congress admits the lawmakers in Washington will "keep stealing" unless someone is able to "tie our hands."

The comments come from U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello, D-Va., who was speaking to a Jefferson area tea party on Tuesday.

"If you don't tie our hands, we will keep stealing," he said.

Watch the video: (See url below)

He was talking about congressional spending and how members of Congress have through the years simply spent what was supposed to be used for Social Security.

Perriello noted Social Security and Medicare are in the red, and cited "the question of whether these things can be managed successfully."

"Part of what happened with Social Security and Medicare," he said. "When they were set up the life expectancy was such that people were expected to be on it for 2-3 years, not 15 or 20 years.

"That's good news."

But he said politicians "have raided the cookie jar over and over again. That's a problem, but there's one thing I learned up here and I didn't really need to come up here to learn it. It's the only way to get Congress to balance a budget is to give them no choice. The only way to keep them out of the cookie jar is give them no choice, which is why whether it's balance budget acts, pay-as-you-go…

"If you don't tie our hand we will keep stealing," he said.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=129433

-- March 21, 2010 2:40 AM


Revoir wrote:

Dear census Guy,
(1) Cuban's live longer? They COOK THEIR BOOKS!! If a child is born with a life threating birth defect such as spina bifida, that child is allowed to die without medical treatment because of the cost. Also, the birth of that child is NOT recorded. Therefore the life span of a Cuban is falsely increased. The Cuban hospitals that Michael Moore was allowed to see were their "show" hospitals that the elite get to use. You will NEVER get to see what the average peasant gets for their health care. I refer you to "1984". This is why there are NO rafts going to Cuba, nor ever will be.

(2)The problem with gov't agencies is that the managers specialize in C.Y.A. They don't care if a case is worked right or wrong, just worked. It makes them look good. If they look good, they get promotions & bonuses. The s@#% flows down hill. The "ordinary hard worker" quickly learns that the path to promotion is to make the manager look good by working cases- right or wrong, just worked.
I have a friend who works at the I.R.S. who says the same thing. One case is one case. If you are a small business owner with less than 5 employees you have a greater chance of being audited than a business owner with 50 employees. Why? Because it takes too long to do the latter.
The average manager I knew at SSA could not manage the midnight shift of a 7-11(get it); but they can kiss a*# and C.Y.A.
This is not an isolated situation. In the U.S.S.R under Stalin a manager ALWAYS said that they met their quota (or got shot). Here they just don't get promoted. The only way you will fix that is to reduce the size of gov't.

(3) You actually think that "advanced countries are running just fine"??
The EU is on the brink of economic collapse. (Iceland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy) Russia is a basket case China has it's own bubble brewing.
According to Milton Friedman's book "Money Mischief", sence 1971 the entire world has been relying on a FEIT (paper)currency. "We are in uncharted waters", he wrote. The U.S. and the world is headed for economic collapse.


-- March 21, 2010 3:04 AM


Census Guy wrote:

Revoir, I don't know if the world is going down the toilet, economically. There is too much happening, good and bad, for me to be sure. There are all kinds of reasons for countries like the EU to be in trouble.

I don't believe health care is all about spending money, it's part of a larger way of life, that includes life style. In places around the world, where people are healthiest, the famous Blue Zones, a lot of those places, like in rural Italy, they don't have a lot of money. So, if Americans change their life styles and be sensible about spending health care dollars, we can all be a lot healthier, and spend less money doing it. Instead, we seem to think technology and pills will save us, or fix us, and we spend so much money on health care because we are deluded into thinking health care is all about pills, and advanced technology trying to save us from our stupid lifestyles, and the diseases that pile up from that. Tiny, poor Costa Rica gets the same outcome, in fact they out live us, and they spend a tiny fraction of what Americans spend, on health care. Maybe Americans can learn from these humble people. So, if we want to act like idiots, and eat Big Macs all day, and expect a million dollars worth of technology to save our fat asses, if we all think like that, then, no, we won't be able to afford health care. Then there will be rationing, because even rich countries like us can only afford so much. But if we start to adopt healthy life styles and use technology in a sensible way, then we have more than enough money to afford good health care.

A Health Care Fool is someone who stops by McDonalds, on the way to protest against health care reform!..lol...

Cover Your Ass, huh? No doubt. I think there should be Quality Control Businesses hired to go into governmental departments, and figure out how to measure actual useful work. A lot of time is wasted in government, as you know, and there all kinds of games that need to be stopped, in order to encourgage competance. I'm not holding my breath, even if I know there are ways to do this. It will take some kind of freak genius coming along one day, like Edward Deming did, when he figured this stuff out for private business. Someone will do that for government some day. So the problem isn't just decreasing the size of government. That's part of the problem, but goverment itself, the bureaucracy, doesn't work very well, as you pointed out. If you fire a lot of people, what you get is a smaller, incompetent government, but I'd prefer a smaller, competent government instead. One where the things that governemnt does, is actually useful.

-- March 21, 2010 12:13 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Revoir, I don't know if the world is going down the toilet, economically. There is too much happening, good and bad, for me to be sure. There are all kinds of reasons for countries like the EU to be in trouble.

I don't believe health care is all about spending money, it's part of a larger way of life, that includes life style. In places around the world, where people are healthiest, the famous Blue Zones, a lot of those places, like in rural Italy, they don't have a lot of money. So, if Americans change their life styles and be sensible about spending health care dollars, we can all be a lot healthier, and spend less money doing it. Instead, we seem to think technology and pills will save us, or fix us, and we spend so much money on health care because we are deluded into thinking health care is all about pills, and advanced technology trying to save us from our stupid lifestyles, and the diseases that pile up from that. Tiny, poor Costa Rica gets the same outcome, in fact they out live us, and they spend a tiny fraction of what Americans spend, on health care. Maybe Americans can learn from these humble people. So, if we want to act like idiots, and eat Big Macs all day, and expect a million dollars worth of technology to save our fat asses, if we all think like that, then, no, we won't be able to afford health care. Then there will be rationing, because even rich countries like us can only afford so much. But if we start to adopt healthy life styles and use technology in a sensible way, then we have more than enough money to afford good health care.

A Health Care Fool is someone who stops by McDonalds, on the way to protest against health care reform!..lol...

Cover Your Ass, huh? No doubt. I think there should be Quality Control Businesses hired to go into governmental departments, and figure out how to measure actual useful work. A lot of time is wasted in government, as you know, and there all kinds of games that need to be stopped, in order to encourgage competance. I'm not holding my breath, even if I know there are ways to do this. It will take some kind of freak genius coming along one day, like Edward Deming did, when he figured this stuff out for private business. Someone will do that for government some day. So the problem isn't just decreasing the size of government. That's part of the problem, but goverment itself, the bureaucracy, doesn't work very well, as you pointed out. If you fire a lot of people, what you get is a smaller, incompetent government, but I'd prefer a smaller, competent government instead. One where the things that governemnt does, is actually useful.

-- March 21, 2010 12:14 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara said: "Calling me a fool and out of touch with reality, among other things.. is calling Jesus Christ those things"

Sara, you write in a way that seems to indicate you have trouble sorting out the difference between yourself and Christ, like you were one and the same.

And then, after that confusion, Sara, you immediately sound like you are speaking for God, and wants to frighten me with possible eternal damnation: "Because, you see, He will one day judge you on your words which you are speaking to me when you stand before Him and you will answer for every word you have spoken - even the words you are speaking here to "the least of these" - namely, me. Just trying to give you a real "heads up" before your account is due, ok?"

Gee, I thought I was a bit mean occasionally with my comments, but eternal damnation? Really Sara?

Don't you think that's a tad over the line?

It's hard to have a serious conversation with someone threatening you with hell.

Sara, we have different, incompatible ways of looking at things. You are oil, I am water. I think you are fairly typical of a lot of conservatives. I have heard before, everything you had to say today, I don't buy it, it was just a lot of words that made no sense, I don't believe the picture you present, and I think the way you look at things is distorted and to sum up how I view your argument: Much written, little said. A lot of sentences you write actually make me cringe. I'm a fairly typical liberal in a lot of ways, and represent some of that point of view. I guess in time, the American public will believe liberal points of view, or the American public will buy into conservative ideology. America is fairly evenly divided, between people who think like you do, and people who think like I do, at least in terms of people who are strongly opinionated. And I don't think there is much middle ground between us. The middle ground is probably the great majority of Americans, who are just pragmatic, and practical, and are not heavily invested in any one particular point of view. These people are the deciders, of whom to believe, and eventually they will tilt a bit to the right, or the left. They decide everything.

It will be interesting today, to see if health care reform passes. Then it will be interesting if it affects the next cycle of elections. Then it will be interesting, long term, what the political impact of this will be. If it passes, and becomes entrenched in America, it will change the political landscape permanently, in my opinion.

And it will be interesting in the next 5 years to watch, and see if I am right, and all kinds of serious reform of regulations governing Wall Street happens. I think it will. My guess is Americans will be angry at Wall Street for a very long time, and insist on it being cleaned up.

On these two things, we will see in time.

-- March 21, 2010 1:01 PM


Sara wrote:

Revoir.. you are right on government care and how lousy it is the world over.
Wherever socialized medicine is tried, it is a horror.
The US has the BEST Healthcare in the entire world!
Sure, it's not perfect.. but comparing it to others, it is THE BEST.
Private insurance care works, and it works WELL.
Everyone comes to the US for their care if they can.
Note the leaders of even Communist countries or socialized ones, come to the US for care.
Recently, a Canadian leader and socialist came for care to the US, and was lambasted in the news for doing so.
He would not take the Canadian care, there was none - but he came to the US, whose care he spoke against.
He advocates socialized medicine, but when he needed care, he ran away from it as the failed system it is.
If the US is going to ape these third world socialized medical systems, they really ought to look at them.
Cuba hides their true statistics, as you say.. here's one I saw discussing India.
In India:
===

Ants eat coma patient's eye
2005-11-15

Kolkata - A coma patient whose left eye was eaten by ants as she lay in a state hospital in eastern India died on Tuesday morning, an official said.

"The woman had lost one of her eyes (to ants). She died this morning of post-surgery complications," said S Adhikary, acting superintendent of Sambhunath Pandit Hospital in the city of Kolkata.

"She was already on her death bed and this added to her problems."

"I saw red ants crawling on my mother's face when I came to visit her," said Soumen, her son.

"I requested a nurse to remove the ants but she said it was not her duty before leaving the ward."

The family said they had complained to police about the staff.

Adhikary expressed regret over the incident but said it was not uncommon for ants to bite a diabetic patient because of their high levels of blood sugar.

Most state hospitals in India tend to be overcrowded, not only with human beings but with dogs, cats and rats as well.

Two years ago rats gnawed off the fingertip of a patient at the cardiac ward of another Kolkata hospital.

http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/8f428b6bd57344eb97e669ad042fa68b/15-11-2005-04-13/Ants_eat_coma_patients_eye

Note "it was not uncommon for ants to bite a diabetic patient" and note how the nurses treated the patient at the family's request.
It isn't as Census Guy says, just due to these other countries being poor, like India. It is quality of care.
People in socialized care do not get quality of care, and healthcare RATIONING happens under socialized care.
What, never happen in a Western country, you say?
What about this one from earlier this month in the UK then?

===

Neglected by 'lazy' nurses, man, 22, dying of thirst rang the police to beg for water
By Emily Andrews
06th March 2010

A man of 22 died in agony of dehydration after three days in a leading teaching hospital.

Kane Gorny was so desperate for a drink that he rang police to beg for their help.

They arrived on the ward only to be told by doctors that everything was under control.

The next day his mother Rita Cronin found him delirious and he died within hours.

She said nurses had failed to give him vital drugs which controlled fluid levels in his body. 'He was totally dependent on the nurses to help him and they totally betrayed him.' His 50-year-old mother says that he needed to take drugs three times a day to regulate his hormones. Doctors had told him that without the drugs he would die.

Rita said nurses had failed to give her son vital drugs which controlled fluid levels in his body
Although he had stressed to staff how important his medication was, she said, no one gave him the drugs.

She said that two days after his hip operation, while Miss Cronin was at work, he became severely dehydrated but his requests for water were refused.

He became aggressive and nurses called in security guards to restrain him.

After they had left, he rang the police from his bed to demand their help.

Miss Cronin, who is divorced from her son's father Peter, said: 'The police told me he'd said, "Please help me. All I want is a drink and no one is helping me".

'I told three nurses there was something wrong with my son and they said, "He's fine" and walked off. I started to cry and a locum doctor who was there told me not to worry.

'Eventually the ward doctor came round, took one look at Kane and started shouting for help.'

Miss Cronin was asked to leave her son's bedside. 'He died an hour later,' she said. 'I didn't even realise he was dying. I didn't even have a chance to say goodbye.'

The tragedy emerged a week after a report into hundreds of deaths at Stafford Hospital revealed the appalling quality of care given by many of the nurses.

This week a task force called on nurses to sign a public pledge that they will treat everyone with compassion and dignity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255858/Neglected-lazy-nurses-Kane-Gorny-22-dying-thirst-rang-police-beg-water.html

The US is appallingly selling her healthcare birthright for a mess of this socialized pottage, just like Esau did.
And all the while they are congratulating and agreeing with those who deceive them into it with their smooth words.

When Census Guy says, "I think there should be Quality Control" of government care, it is no different than the last line of this article saying that the nurses will "sign a public pledge that they will treat everyone with compassion and dignity" in light of the HUNDREDS of deaths and appalling quality of care at the hospital. Does that make you feel better now? I think he answers his own question when he says, "goverment itself, the bureaucracy, doesn't work very well, as you pointed out." True. So maybe, possibly.. the Private Sector could do healthcare instead of the government? Wait.. wait.. that is what the US has NOW. Isn't that kind of weird? And it is the BEST in the world as it now stands using privatized care. But now, we want the government to run healthcare. Why is that, exactly? Pottage, anyone?

Sara.

-- March 21, 2010 1:44 PM


Sara wrote:

Maliki using coercion (making threats?) to try and bring about the result he desires?
I hope no one is intimidated into doing the wrong thing..

===
Iraq PM rebuffed after demanding vote recount
MEHDI LEBOUACHERA
March 22, 2010

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's calls for a recount of votes from Iraq's polls were on Sunday rebuffed by its election commission, amid a tight race to form the biggest bloc in parliament.

Maliki's about-face from previous remarks that complaints over the March 7 election would not affect the results was condemned by the Iraqiya bloc which is neck-and-neck with his State of Law Alliance.

Latest figures from Iraq's election commission based on 95 percent of ballots cast showed State of Law trailing the Iraqiya bloc of secular ex-premier Iyad Allawi by around 11,000 votes nationwide.

In a statement on Sunday, Maliki called on Iraq's election commission to "immediately answer the demands of political parties to proceed with a manual recount" which he said would "protect political stability ... and prevent a return to violence."

The statement, which pointedly noted that Maliki remained head of the country's armed forces, did not specify whether he wanted a nationwide recount, or only in particular provinces.

It differs markedly from Maliki's own comments just a week ago, when he said election complaints "cannot affect the results."

Senior Iraqiya candidate Intisar Allawi, a relative of the bloc's leader, denounced Maliki's remarks as a "clear threat against the commission", adding that a manual recount was a "contradiction" fuelled by news that Iraqiya had taken the lead in the nationwide vote tally.

Although she declined to say a manual recount was unnecessary, she said such action "would mean a delay of the results for several months."

"This would lead to a political vacuum that would affect the security situation."

Hundreds of people demonstrated in support of Maliki in the holy city of Najaf as 10 provincial governors, all State of Law, issued a statement also calling for a recount.

In his own statement, President Jalal Talabani also called for "a new manual recount" in some of the country's provinces, but did not say which ones.

Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) rejected the demands for a manual recount, however, saying it would take "too long."

"We have provided all political entities with CDs with the results of counting at the political centres, after thorough checks on our part," commission chief Faraj al-Haidari told AFP.

"If they have doubts and think that there are errors, they can ask us to hold recounts at particular centres, but not across all of Iraq," he added.

He later told a press conference at IHEC's data entry centre in Baghdad's Green Zone: "Some people have demanded a new count for an entire city or across the country -- this is like saying we need a whole new election."

"If you do not believe in modern technology, how would you have confidence in the pen of a public worker?"

IHEC officials and Western diplomats have downplayed any allegations of fraud, and pleaded for patience as the vote count, which has so far taken two weeks, continues.

Final results from the election are due to be published on March 26.

Figures released on Saturday showed Iraqiya garnered 2,631,388 votes compared with State of Law's 2,620,042, a difference of 11,346.

The nationwide vote count is an indication of the tight race between the two main rivals, but it was not immediately clear how their tallies would affect the number of seats they win in parliament.

Maliki's bloc currently leads in seven of Iraq's 18 provinces, including the single biggest Baghdad and six other mostly Shiite southern provinces. Allawi, meanwhile, is ahead in five mostly Sunni provinces but looks likely to win several seats in Shiite areas.

Iraq's proportional representation system makes it unlikely difficult for any single group to clinch the 163 seats required to form a government on its own.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/iraq-pm-rebuffed-after-demanding-vote-recount-20100321-qnzv.html

-- March 21, 2010 2:34 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara, you are right. Many medical tourists around the world agree that the top American hospitals, which are private, are some of the very best hospitals in the world. That's why so many people come here from other countries, and because they have the money, and good won't do, they are looking for the best of the best. In my opinion, The Mayo Clinic is the very best. However, what about the rest of our health care system? How good is our private system compared to the rest of the world? Not very good. You are quite deluded about that:

"New York Times
Opinion

Editorial
World’s Best Medical Care?

Published: August 12, 2007

Many Americans are under the delusion that we have “the best health care system in the world,” as President Bush sees it, or provide the “best medical care in the world,” as Rudolph Giuliani declared last week. That may be true at many top medical centers. But the disturbing truth is that this country lags well behind other advanced nations in delivering timely and effective care.

Michael Moore struck a nerve in his new documentary, “Sicko,” when he extolled the virtues of the government-run health care systems in France, England, Canada and even Cuba while deploring the failures of the largely private insurance system in this country. There is no question that Mr. Moore overstated his case by making foreign systems look almost flawless. But there is a growing body of evidence that, by an array of pertinent yardsticks, the United States is a laggard not a leader in providing good medical care.

Seven years ago, the World Health Organization made the first major effort to rank the health systems of 191 nations. France and Italy took the top two spots; the United States was a dismal 37th. More recently, the highly regarded Commonwealth Fund has pioneered in comparing the United States with other advanced nations through surveys of patients and doctors and analysis of other data. Its latest report, issued in May, ranked the United States last or next-to-last compared with five other nations — Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom — on most measures of performance, including quality of care and access to it. Other comparative studies also put the United States in a relatively bad light.

Insurance coverage. All other major industrialized nations provide universal health coverage, and most of them have comprehensive benefit packages with no cost-sharing by the patients. The United States, to its shame, has some 45 million people without health insurance and many more millions who have poor coverage. Although the president has blithely said that these people can always get treatment in an emergency room, many studies have shown that people without insurance postpone treatment until a minor illness becomes worse, harming their own health and imposing greater costs.

Access. Citizens abroad often face long waits before they can get to see a specialist or undergo elective surgery. Americans typically get prompter attention, although Germany does better. The real barriers here are the costs facing low-income people without insurance or with skimpy coverage. But even Americans with above-average incomes find it more difficult than their counterparts abroad to get care on nights or weekends without going to an emergency room, and many report having to wait six days or more for an appointment with their own doctors.

Fairness. The United States ranks dead last on almost all measures of equity because we have the greatest disparity in the quality of care given to richer and poorer citizens. Americans with below-average incomes are much less likely than their counterparts in other industrialized nations to see a doctor when sick, to fill prescriptions or to get needed tests and follow-up care.

Healthy lives. We have known for years that America has a high infant mortality rate, so it is no surprise that we rank last among 23 nations by that yardstick. But the problem is much broader. We rank near the bottom in healthy life expectancy at age 60, and 15th among 19 countries in deaths from a wide range of illnesses that would not have been fatal if treated with timely and effective care. The good news is that we have done a better job than other industrialized nations in reducing smoking. The bad news is that our obesity epidemic is the worst in the world.

Quality. In a comparison with five other countries, the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States first in providing the “right care” for a given condition as defined by standard clinical guidelines and gave it especially high marks for preventive care, like Pap smears and mammograms to detect early-stage cancers, and blood tests and cholesterol checks for hypertensive patients. But we scored poorly in coordinating the care of chronically ill patients, in protecting the safety of patients, and in meeting their needs and preferences, which drove our overall quality rating down to last place. American doctors and hospitals kill patients through surgical and medical mistakes more often than their counterparts in other industrialized nations.


Life and death. In a comparison of five countries, the United States had the best survival rate for breast cancer, second best for cervical cancer and childhood leukemia, worst for kidney transplants, and almost-worst for liver transplants and colorectal cancer. In an eight-country comparison, the United States ranked last in years of potential life lost to circulatory diseases, respiratory diseases and diabetes and had the second highest death rate from bronchitis, asthma and emphysema. Although several factors can affect these results, it seems likely that the quality of care delivered was a significant contributor.

Patient satisfaction. Despite the declarations of their political leaders, many Americans hold surprisingly negative views of their health care system. Polls in Europe and North America seven to nine years ago found that only 40 percent of Americans were satisfied with the nation’s health care system, placing us 14th out of 17 countries. In recent Commonwealth Fund surveys of five countries, American attitudes stand out as the most negative, with a third of the adults surveyed calling for rebuilding the entire system, compared with only 13 percent who feel that way in Britain and 14 percent in Canada.

That may be because Americans face higher out-of-pocket costs than citizens elsewhere, are less apt to have a long-term doctor, less able to see a doctor on the same day when sick, and less apt to get their questions answered or receive clear instructions from a doctor. On the other hand, Gallup polls in recent years have shown that three-quarters of the respondents in the United States, in Canada and in Britain rate their personal care as excellent or good, so it could be hard to motivate these people for the wholesale change sought by the disaffected.

Use of information technology. Shockingly, despite our vaunted prowess in computers, software and the Internet, much of our health care system is still operating in the dark ages of paper records and handwritten scrawls. American primary care doctors lag years behind doctors in other advanced nations in adopting electronic medical records or prescribing medications electronically. This makes it harder to coordinate care, spot errors and adhere to standard clinical guidelines.

Top-of-the-line care. Despite our poor showing in many international comparisons, it is doubtful that many Americans, faced with a life-threatening illness, would rather be treated elsewhere. We tend to think that our very best medical centers are the best in the world. But whether this is a realistic assessment or merely a cultural preference for the home team is difficult to say. Only when better measures of clinical excellence are developed will discerning medical shoppers know for sure who is the best of the best.

With health care emerging as a major issue in the presidential campaign and in Congress, it will be important to get beyond empty boasts that this country has “the best health care system in the world” and turn instead to fixing its very real defects. The main goal should be to reduce the huge number of uninsured, who are a major reason for our poor standing globally. But there is also plenty of room to improve our coordination of care, our use of computerized records, communications between doctors and patients, and dozens of other factors that impair the quality of care. The world’s most powerful economy should be able to provide a health care system that really is the best."

.....you are listening to Glen Beck too much. The World Health Organization is a much more reliable source of objective information....truth is, We are falling behind much of the world. Americans need to set aside our big national egos, and admit that in the Olympics of Health Care, America gets a Gold Medal for it's top Private Clinics, but would be lucky to Bronze in the Rest of the Categories. There are horror stories in any given hospital, but objective measurement of America's overall perfomance indicates we have a health care delivery system falling behind the rest of the world. Just because reality does not conform to your pre-conceived ideology doesn't matter. The fact is, much of our health care system is a national embarrassement. Your vauge generalities about socialized medicine are nonsense.

-- March 21, 2010 3:20 PM


Sara wrote:

Censusguy, I am glad you will admit, quote, "Many medical tourists around the world agree that the top American hospitals, which are private, are some of the very best hospitals in the world. That's why so many people come here from other countries.." but there is more. Remember Cuba where they just cook the books to make it look like they even give that care? The article also admits the point, "people can always get treatment in an emergency room" as I said.

Basically, the article you quote here admits the positives, then goes on to the complaints in the imperfect system and say that is the reason to toss the entire thing in favor of government care instead of reforming the current system - like this example, "the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States first in providing the “right care” for a given condition as defined by standard clinical guidelines and gave it especially high marks for preventive care, like Pap smears and mammograms to detect early-stage cancers, and blood tests and cholesterol checks for hypertensive patients. But we scored poorly in coordinating the care of chronically ill patients, in protecting the safety of patients, and in meeting their needs and preferences, which drove our overall quality rating down to last place."

People in the US get the screening and the clinical guidelines for care are met.. but it ends up "last place" because you don't meet people's PREFERENCES? And the care is not "coordinated" enough.. Hmmm.. I mean.. think about it. That makes the US to rate last place? Do you really think the "safety" concerns rate like the patient in India which had ants eating her eyes out while in a coma? Somehow, I just don't think so. Yet, you advocate giving up the top rate medical care for their third world system of government controls..

You know, the real issue is what the US is GIVING UP.. not what they already have, which, by any standard, is still pretty good care. We are not talking that people are dying in the streets, as you and the NYT article admits. But where is your road leading? To the end of all medical innovation, forever. Why? Because, as the NYT again admits, they MUST maintain their promised government low premiums by "imposing" lower payments on hospitals and doctors, which stifles innovative care:

===

New York Times Wants To Stop Medical Innovation Forever, Uh, I Mean, Adopt Health Care Price Controls
Ronald Bailey | August 20, 2009

In an August 18 editorial, the editors of the New York Times made it explicit how their preferred version of a government run health insurance scheme, a.k.a., the public option, would compete with private health insurance. As the Times editors clearly explained,
QUOTE:

... as the House legislation has progressed, the proposed public plan has steadily lost its power to impose lower payments on hospitals and doctors — as the government currently does with Medicare — which is critical to maintaining low premiums.

That's right "impose lower payments." In other words, price controls. One would think that the editors of a newspaper based in a city in which price controls (rent control) destroyed scores of thousands of housing units would be adverse to recommending that this same economically ignorant policy be applied to something as important as health care.

As if to highlight the economic imbecility of the Times' editorial, the Washington Post is today running a sharp op/ed by orthopedic surgeon Marshall Ackerman. First, he asks some probing questions about the ignorant rhetoric that Congressional Democrats and the White House are slinging around in the health care reform debate. But as importantly, Ackerman makes it clear what will happen wiith regard to ever-tightening price controls:

Total joint replacement surgery for an arthritic hip and knee is a prime example of the difficulties physicians face and of the implications of health-care reform as envisaged by Congress and academic "experts." In 1971 I was paid $1,000 for a total hip replacement. Today, I would be paid approximately $1,600 for the same service. There is no multiplier -- a surgeon can only do one patient at a time. We continue in our practice for the immense satisfaction we receive from knowing that this surgery does more to restore a high quality of life to patients than any other surgery, and for the gratitude patients show. We implant devices because we believe, based on medical literature, that they are the best choices for patients. The overwhelming majority of surgeons have not received fees from implant manufacturers -- many times lowering the profitability of our hospitals.

Consider the implications when a global fee will be paid to the hospital: Then hospital and physician incentives will be aligned, and patients will bear the cost of the search for ever-cheaper implants and techniques, such as a return to cemented total hips. Forget metal-on-metal bearings, resurfacing, rotating platforms, high-flex knees, navigation systems or bilateral replacements. And if our hospitals are financially penalized for occurrences such as infection and deep-vein thrombosis after surgery, who will operate on the obese, the hypertensive or the diabetics among us? Experience with government funding reveals a never-ending spiral of decreased reimbursements in the name of restraining costs. In the end, this will come out of the care we all receive.

Let's make it more explicit. A total hip replacement cost $1,000 in 1970. If doing that procedure had kept up with the rate of inflation, the cost would be about $5,500 today. Instead, Medicare pays $1,600. Of course, procedures and technologies have improved which would cut down on the costs, but medicine is still labor intensive which means that costs can be cut only so much.

As I explained my column, "2005 Health Care Forever," government health care price controls will ultimately mean that we all get the same crappy health care for eternity:
QUOTE:

Harvard University economist Kenneth Rogoff sees health care expenditures rising to perhaps 30 percent of a country's GDP over the next 50 years. If the US adopts a nationalized health care system, taxes will have to double for pay for it. Rogoff also observes, "[I]f all countries squeezed profits in the health sector the way Europe and Canada do, there would be much less global innovation in medical technology. Today, the whole world benefits freely from advances in health technology that are driven largely by the allure of the profitable U.S. market. If the United States joins other nations in having more socialized medicine, the current pace of technology improvements might well grind to a halt."

Which suggests the following thought experiment—what if the United States had nationalized its health care system in 1960? That would be the moral equivalent of freezing (or at least drastically slowing) medical innovation at 1960 levels. The private sector and governments would not now be spending so much more money on health care. There might well have been no organ transplants, no MRIs, no laparoscopic surgery, no cholesterol lowering drugs, hepatitis C vaccine, no in vitro fertilization, no HIV treatments and so forth. Even Canadians and Britons would not be satisfied with receiving the same quality of medical care that they got 45 years ago.

Everybody pays more to obtain improved pharmaceuticals, imaging technologies, cancer therapies, and surgical techniques. The happy result is that average life expectancy has increased by about eight years since 1960.

As Rogoff suggests, the nationalized health care systems extolled by Progressives have been living off the innovations developed by the "only country without a universal health care system." I wonder how Americans would vote if they were asked if they would be happy freezing medical care at 2005 levels forever?

Read Ackerman's whole Post op/ed here.

http://reason.com/blog/2009/08/20/new-york-times-wants-to-stop-m

the nationalized health care systems extolled by Progressives have been living off the innovations developed by the "only country without a universal health care system."

the nationalized health care systems extolled by Progressives have been living off the innovations developed by the "only country without a universal health care system."

I thought that worth repeating. THAT is where people like you.. extolling standing up for the "underdog" in healthcare just like the Communists stand up for the "worker class" against the ruling elite.. are heading. As this article points out, if the United States joins the other nations in having socialized medicine, the current pace of technological improvements will grind to a halt. And that is the real issue here, not the need for more "coordinated care" and taking into account "preferences" in care.

It is getting a mess of lentil stew (pottage) for the birthright which has given America her first class healthcare and innovation, indeed.

Sara.

-- March 21, 2010 6:12 PM


Sara wrote:

Also worth reading:

Why America Hates Universal Health Care: The Real Reason
March 20th, 2010

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/03/20/why-america-hates-universal-health-care-the-real-reason/?singlepage=true

-- March 21, 2010 6:44 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Sara, what a load of rubbish. Medical innovation takes a lot of money. That can be public money, as well as private. The strong determiner of how much innovation takes place depends on a number of things: good schools, good universities, the right policy in place, and funding, to encourage medical innovation. You are painting a distorted picture of how medical innovation actually happens. As an example of the real world: The military budget in the U.S. has always been huge. A large part of that money has always gone to scientific innovation and research. In other words, public money has always fueled science and innovation.

And you are back to your old habit of lying again: "We are not talking that people are dying in the streets, as you and the NYT article admits."...what the hell is that supposed to mean? I never "admitted" people are dying in the streets, whatever that is supposed to me. Not only is it a lie, it's an incoherent one. If you are going to lie Sara, try at least to be coherent about it.

Your side is losing badly, and you're just grasping at straws.

-- March 21, 2010 7:17 PM


Census Guy wrote:

This is our President, addressing the governing body of doctors in America, The American Medical Association. Notice that private care costs 50% more than public care. And the outcomes are worse. Notice that he says that 100,000 Americans die from medical mistakes in America, each year. You heard me, 100,000 Americans die each year from medical mistakes. In Iraq, about 4,000 American soldiers have been killed. Rob N, you might want to worry more about getting out alive, out of one of our hospitals, than Iraq. Sometimes I wonder if downtown Baghdad would be safer than most hospital emergency wards. Every 4 years in America, more people die from doctors mistakes, than all the American soldiers killed in World War II, the bloodiest conflict in human history. Great private system, right Sara?

Some highlights of the President's Speech:

1-Private Care costs 50% more than socialized medicine
2-despite spending all that money, the quality of care is often lower
3-the cost of our health care is a threat to our economy
4-the President wants to reform health care, but not socialize it
5-out of control health care costs are threatening our biggest corporations, like GM
6-if we don't reform the system very soon, in 30 years, 1 in 3 dollars will go to health care
7-this would mean big tax hikes for Americans, to pay for this

No thanks, Sara, the Republicans don't have a clue. Thank God Obama is in charge. Now we can get things don.

"Obama Addresses Physicians at AMA Meeting: Transcript of President Obama's Remarks
June 15, 2009

2009 Annual Meeting of the AMA House of Delegates
Hyatt Regency Hotel
Chicago, Ill.

From the moment I took office as President, the central challenge we have confronted as a nation has been the need to lift ourselves out of the worst recession since World War II. In recent months, we have taken a series of extraordinary steps, not just to repair the immediate damage to our economy, but to build a new foundation for lasting and sustained growth. We are creating new jobs. We are unfreezing our credit markets. And we are stemming the loss of homes and the decline of home values.

But even as we have made progress, we know that the road to prosperity remains long and difficult. We also know that one essential step on our journey is to control the spiraling cost of health care in America.

Today, we are spending over $2 trillion a year on health care – almost 50 percent more per person than the next most costly nation. And yet, for all this spending, more of our citizens are uninsured; the quality of our care is often lower; and we aren't any healthier. In fact, citizens in some countries that spend less than we do are actually living longer than we do.

Make no mistake: the cost of our health care is a threat to our economy. It is an escalating burden on our families and businesses. It is a ticking time-bomb for the federal budget. And it is unsustainable for the United States of America.

It is unsustainable for Americans like Laura Klitzka, a young mother I met in Wisconsin last week, who has learned that the breast cancer she thought she'd beaten had spread to her bones; who is now being forced to spend time worrying about how to cover the $50,000 in medical debts she has already accumulated, when all she wants to do is spend time with her two children and focus on getting well. These are not worries a woman like Laura should have to face in a nation as wealthy as ours.

Stories like Laura's are being told by women and men all across this country – by families who have seen out-of-pocket costs soar, and premiums double over the last decade at a rate three times faster than wages. This is forcing Americans of all ages to go without the checkups or prescriptions they need. It's creating a situation where a single illness can wipe out a lifetime of savings.

Our costly health care system is unsustainable for doctors like Michael Kahn in New Hampshire, who, as he puts it, spends 20 percent of each day supervising a staff explaining insurance problems to patients, completing authorization forms, and writing appeal letters; a routine that he calls disruptive and distracting, giving him less time to do what he became a doctor to do and actually care for his patients.

Small business owners like Chris and Becky Link in Nashville are also struggling. They've always wanted to do right by the workers at their family-run marketing firm, but have recently had to do the unthinkable and lay off a number of employees – layoffs that could have been deferred, they say, if health care costs weren't so high. Across the country, over one third of small businesses have reduced benefits in recent years and one third have dropped their workers' coverage altogether since the early 90's.

Our largest companies are suffering as well. A big part of what led General Motors and Chrysler into trouble in recent decades were the huge costs they racked up providing health care for their workers; costs that made them less profitable, and less competitive with automakers around the world. If we do not fix our health care system, America may go the way of GM; paying more, getting less, and going broke.

When it comes to the cost of our health care, then, the status quo is unsustainable. Reform is not a luxury, but a necessity. I know there has been much discussion about what reform would cost, and rightly so. This is a test of whether we – Democrats and Republicans alike – are serious about holding the line on new spending and restoring fiscal discipline.

But let there be no doubt – the cost of inaction is greater. If we fail to act, premiums will climb higher, benefits will erode further, and the rolls of uninsured will swell to include millions more Americans.

If we fail to act, one out of every five dollars we earn will be spent on health care within a decade. In thirty years, it will be about one out of every three – a trend that will mean lost jobs, lower take-home pay, shuttered businesses, and a lower standard of living for all Americans.

And if we fail to act, federal spending on Medicaid and Medicare will grow over the coming decades by an amount almost equal to the amount our government currently spends on our nation's defense. In fact, it will eventually grow larger than what our government spends on anything else today. It's a scenario that will swamp our federal and state budgets, and impose a vicious choice of either unprecedented tax hikes, overwhelming deficits, or drastic cuts in our federal and state budgets.

To say it as plainly as I can, health care reform is the single most important thing we can do for America's long-term fiscal health. That is a fact.

And yet, as clear as it is that our system badly needs reform, reform is not inevitable. There's a sense out there among some that, as bad as our current system may be, the devil we know is better than the devil we don't. There is a fear of change – a worry that we may lose what works about our health care system while trying to fix what doesn't.

I understand that fear. I understand that cynicism. They are scars left over from past efforts at reform. Presidents have called for health care reform for nearly a century. Teddy Roosevelt called for it. Harry Truman called for it. Richard Nixon called for it. Jimmy Carter called for it. Bill Clinton called for it. But while significant individual reforms have been made – such as Medicare, Medicaid, and the children's health insurance program – efforts at comprehensive reform that covers everyone and brings down costs have largely failed.

Part of the reason is because the different groups involved – physicians, insurance companies, businesses, workers, and others – simply couldn't agree on the need for reform or what shape it would take. And another part of the reason has been the fierce opposition fueled by some interest groups and lobbyists – opposition that has used fear tactics to paint any effort to achieve reform as an attempt to socialize medicine.

Despite this long history of failure, I am standing here today because I think we are in a different time. One sign that things are different is that just this past week, the Senate passed a bill that will protect children from the dangers of smoking – a reform the AMA has long championed – and one that went nowhere when it was proposed a decade ago. What makes this moment different is that this time – for the first time – key stakeholders are aligning not against, but in favor of reform. They are coming together out of a recognition that while reform will take everyone in our health care community doing their part, ultimately, everyone will benefit.

And I want to commend the AMA, in particular, for offering to do your part to curb costs and achieve reform. A few weeks ago, you joined together with hospitals, labor unions, insurers, medical device manufacturers and drug companies to do something that would've been unthinkable just a few years ago – you promised to work together to cut national health care spending by two trillion dollars over the next decade, relative to what it would otherwise have been. That will bring down costs, that will bring down premiums, and that's exactly the kind of cooperation we need.

The question now is, how do we finish the job? How do we permanently bring down costs and make quality, affordable health care available to every American?

That's what I've come to talk about today. We know the moment is right for health care reform. We know this is an historic opportunity we've never seen before and may not see again. But we also know that there are those who will try and scuttle this opportunity no matter what – who will use the same scare tactics and fear-mongering that's worked in the past. They'll give dire warnings about socialized medicine and government takeovers; long lines and rationed care; decisions made by bureaucrats and not doctors. We've heard it all before – and because these fear tactics have worked, things have kept getting worse.

So let me begin by saying this: I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage – they like their plan and they value their relationship with their doctor. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what's broken and build on what works.

If we do that, we can build a health care system that allows you to be physicians instead of administrators and accountants; a system that gives Americans the best care at the lowest cost; a system that eases up the pressure on businesses and unleashes the promise of our economy, creating hundreds of thousands of jobs, making take-home wages thousands of dollars higher, and growing our economy by tens of billions more every year. That's how we will stop spending tax dollars to prop up an unsustainable system, and start investing those dollars in innovations and advances that will make our health care system and our economy stronger.

That's what we can do with this opportunity. That's what we must do with this moment.

Now, the good news is that in some instances, there is already widespread agreement on the steps necessary to make our health care system work better.

First, we need to upgrade our medical records by switching from a paper to an electronic system of record keeping. And we have already begun to do this with an investment we made as part of our Recovery Act.

It simply doesn't make sense that patients in the 21st century are still filling out forms with pens on papers that have to be stored away somewhere. As Newt Gingrich has rightly pointed out, we do a better job tracking a FedEx package in this country than we do tracking a patient's health records. You shouldn't have to tell every new doctor you see about your medical history, or what prescriptions you're taking. You should not have to repeat costly tests. All of that information should be stored securely in a private medical record so that your information can be tracked from one doctor to another – even if you change jobs, even if you move, and even if you have to see a number of different specialists.

That will not only mean less paper pushing and lower administrative costs, saving taxpayers billions of dollars. It will also make it easier for physicians to do their jobs. It will tell you, the doctors, what drugs a patient is taking so you can avoid prescribing a medication that could cause a harmful interaction. It will help prevent the wrong dosages from going to a patient. And it will reduce medical errors that lead to 100,000 lives lost unnecessarily in our hospitals every year.

The second step that we can all agree on is to invest more in preventive care so that we can avoid illness and disease in the first place. That starts with each of us taking more responsibility for our health and the health of our children. It means quitting smoking, going in for that mammogram or colon cancer screening. It means going for a run or hitting the gym, and raising our children to step away from the video games and spend more time playing outside.

It also means cutting down on all the junk food that is fueling an epidemic of obesity, putting far too many Americans, young and old, at greater risk of costly, chronic conditions. That's a lesson Michelle and I have tried to instill in our daughters with the White House vegetable garden that Michelle planted. And that's a lesson that we should work with local school districts to incorporate into their school lunch programs.

Building a health care system that promotes prevention rather than just managing diseases will require all of us to do our part. It will take doctors telling us what risk factors we should avoid and what preventive measures we should pursue. And it will take employers following the example of places like Safeway that is rewarding workers for taking better care of their health while reducing health care costs in the process. If you're one of the three quarters of Safeway workers enrolled in their “Healthy Measures” program, you can get screened for problems like high cholesterol or high blood pressure. And if you score well, you can pay lower premiums. It's a program that has helped Safeway cut health care spending by 13 percent and workers save over 20 percent on their premiums. And we are open to doing more to help employers adopt and expand programs like this one.

Our federal government also has to step up its efforts to advance the cause of healthy living. Five of the costliest illnesses and conditions – cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, lung disease, and strokes – can be prevented. And yet only a fraction of every health care dollar goes to prevention or public health. That is starting to change with an investment we are making in prevention and wellness programs that can help us avoid diseases that harm our health and the health of our economy.

But as important as they are, investments in electronic records and preventive care are just preliminary steps. They will only make a dent in the epidemic of rising costs in this country.

Despite what some have suggested, the reason we have these costs is not simply because we have an aging population. Demographics do account for part of rising costs because older, sicker societies pay more on health care than younger, healthier ones. But what accounts for the bulk of our costs is the nature of our health care system itself – a system where we spend vast amounts of money on things that aren't making our people any healthier; a system that automatically equates more expensive care with better care.

A recent article in the New Yorker, for example, showed how McAllen, Texas is spending twice as much as El Paso County – not because people in McAllen are sicker and not because they are getting better care. They are simply using more treatments – treatments they don't really need; treatments that, in some cases, can actually do people harm by raising the risk of infection or medical error. And the problem is, this pattern is repeating itself across America. One Dartmouth study showed that you're no less likely to die from a heart attack and other ailments in a higher spending area than in a lower spending one.

There are two main reasons for this. The first is a system of incentives where the more tests and services are provided, the more money we pay. And a lot of people in this room know what I'm talking about. It is a model that rewards the quantity of care rather than the quality of care; that pushes you, the doctor, to see more and more patients even if you can't spend much time with each; and gives you every incentive to order that extra MRI or EKG, even if it's not truly necessary. It is a model that has taken the pursuit of medicine from a profession – a calling – to a business.

That is not why you became doctors. That is not why you put in all those hours in the Anatomy Suite or the O.R. That is not what brings you back to a patient's bedside to check in or makes you call a loved one to say it'll be fine. You did not enter this profession to be bean-counters and paper-pushers. You entered this profession to be healers – and that's what our health care system should let you be.

That starts with reforming the way we compensate our doctors and hospitals. We need to bundle payments so you aren't paid for every single treatment you offer a patient with a chronic condition like diabetes, but instead are paid for how you treat the overall disease. We need to create incentives for physicians to team up – because we know that when that happens, it results in a healthier patient. We need to give doctors bonuses for good health outcomes – so that we are not promoting just more treatment, but better care.

And we need to rethink the cost of a medical education, and do more to reward medical students who choose a career as a primary care physicians and who choose to work in underserved areas instead of a more lucrative path. That's why we are making a substantial investment in the National Health Service Corps that will make medical training more affordable for primary care doctors and nurse practitioners so they aren't drowning in debt when they enter the workforce.

The second structural reform we need to make is to improve the quality of medical information making its way to doctors and patients. We have the best medical schools, the most sophisticated labs, and the most advanced training of any nation on the globe. Yet we are not doing a very good job harnessing our collective knowledge and experience on behalf of better medicine. Less than one percent of our health care spending goes to examining what treatments are most effective. And even when that information finds its way into journals, it can take up to 17 years to find its way to an exam room or operating table.

As a result, too many doctors and patients are making decisions without the benefit of the latest research. A recent study, for example, found that only half of all cardiac guidelines are based on scientific evidence. Half. That means doctors may be doing a bypass operation when placing a stent is equally effective, or placing a stent when adjusting a patient's drugs and medical management is equally effective – driving up costs without improving a patient's health.

So, one thing we need to do is figure out what works, and encourage rapid implementation of what works into your practices. That's why we are making a major investment in research to identify the best treatments for a variety of ailments and conditions.

Let me be clear: identifying what works is not about dictating what kind of care should be provided. It's about providing patients and doctors with the information they need to make the best medical decisions.

Still, even when we do know what works, we are often not making the most of it. That's why we need to build on the examples of outstanding medicine at places like the Cincinnati Children's Hospital, where the quality of care for cystic fibrosis patients shot up after the hospital began incorporating suggestions from parents. And places like Tallahassee Memorial Health Care, where deaths were dramatically reduced with rapid response teams that monitored patients' conditions and “multidisciplinary rounds” with everyone from physicians to pharmacists. And places like the Geisinger Health system in rural Pennsylvania and the Intermountain Health in Salt Lake City, where high-quality care is being provided at a cost well below average. These are islands of excellence that we need to make the standard in our health care system.

Replicating best practices. Incentivizing excellence. Closing cost disparities. Any legislation sent to my desk that does not achieve these goals does not earn the title of reform. But my signature on a bill is not enough. I need your help, doctors. To most Americans, you are the health care system. Americans – me included – just do what you recommend. That is why I will listen to you and work with you to pursue reform that works for you. And together, if we take all these steps, we can bring spending down, bring quality up, and save hundreds of billions of dollars on health care costs while making our health care system work better for patients and doctors alike.

Now, I recognize that it will be hard to make some of these changes if doctors feel like they are constantly looking over their shoulder for fear of lawsuits. Some doctors may feel the need to order more tests and treatments to avoid being legally vulnerable. That's a real issue.And while I'm not advocating caps on malpractice awards which I believe can be unfair to people who've been wrongfully harmed, I do think we need to explore a range of ideas about how to put patient safety first, let doctors focus on practicing medicine, and encourage broader use of evidence-based guidelines. That's how we can scale back the excessive defensive medicine reinforcing our current system of more treatment rather than better care.

These changes need to go hand-in-hand with other reforms. Because our health care system is so complex and medicine is always evolving, we need a way to continually evaluate how we can eliminate waste, reduce costs, and improve quality. That is why I am open to expanding the role of a commission created by a Republican Congress called the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission – which happens to include a number of physicians. In recent years, this commission proposed roughly $200 billion in savings that never made it into law. These recommendations have now been incorporated into our broader reform agenda, but we need to fast-track their proposals in the future so that we don't miss another opportunity to save billions of dollars, as we gain more information about what works and what doesn't in our health care system.

As we seek to contain the cost of health care, we must also ensure that every American can get coverage they can afford. We must do so in part because it is in all of our economic interests. Each time an uninsured American steps foot into an emergency room with no way to reimburse the hospital for care, the cost is handed over to every American family as a bill of about $1,000 that is reflected in higher taxes, higher premiums, and higher health care costs; a hidden tax that will be cut as we insure all Americans. And as we insure every young and healthy American, it will spread out risk for insurance companies, further reducing costs for everyone.

But alongside these economic arguments, there is another, more powerful one. It is simply this: We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women, and children. We are not a nation that lets hardworking families go without the coverage they deserve; or turns its back on those in need. We are a nation that cares for its citizens. We are a people who look out for one another. That is what makes this the United States of America.

So, we need to do a few things to provide affordable health insurance to every single American. The first thing we need to do is protect what's working in our health care system. Let me repeat – if you like your health care, the only thing reform will mean is your health care will cost less. If anyone says otherwise, they are either trying to mislead you or don't have their facts straight.

If you don't like your health coverage or don't have any insurance, you will have a chance to take part in what we're calling a Health Insurance Exchange. This Exchange will allow you to one-stop shop for a health care plan, compare benefits and prices, and choose a plan that's best for you and your family – just as federal employees can do, from a postal worker to a Member of Congress. You will have your choice of a number of plans that offer a few different packages, but every plan would offer an affordable, basic package. And one of these options needs to be a public option that will give people a broader range of choices and inject competition into the health care market so that force waste out of the system and keep the insurance companies honest.

Now, I know there's some concern about a public option. In particular, I understand that you are concerned that today's Medicare rates will be applied broadly in a way that means our cost savings are coming off your backs. These are legitimate concerns, but ones, I believe, that can be overcome. As I stated earlier, the reforms we propose are to reward best practices, focus on patient care, not the current piece-work reimbursement. What we seek is more stability and a health care system on a sound financial footing. And these reforms need to take place regardless of what happens with a public option. With reform, we will ensure that you are being reimbursed in a thoughtful way tied to patient outcomes instead of relying on yearly negotiations about the Sustainable Growth Rate formula that's based on politics and the state of the federal budget in any given year. The alternative is a world where health care costs grow at an unsustainable rate, threatening your reimbursements and the stability of our health care system.

What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I'll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe – and I've even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief – that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I'm trying to bring about government-run health care, know this – they are not telling the truth.

What I am trying to do – and what a public option will help do – is put affordable health care within reach for millions of Americans. And to help ensure that everyone can afford the cost of a health care option in our Exchange, we need to provide assistance to families who need it. That way, there will be no reason at all for anyone to remain uninsured.

Indeed, it is because I am confident in our ability to give people the ability to get insurance that I am open to a system where every American bears responsibility for owning health insurance, so long as we provide a hardship waiver for those who still can't afford it. The same is true for employers. While I believe every business has a responsibility to provide health insurance for its workers, small businesses that cannot afford it should receive an exemption. And small business workers and their families will be able to seek coverage in the Exchange if their employer is not able to provide it.

Insurance companies have expressed support for the idea of covering the uninsured – and I welcome their willingness to engage constructively in the reform debate. But what I refuse to do is simply create a system where insurance companies have more customers on Uncle Sam's dime, but still fail to meet their responsibilities. That is why we need to end the practice of denying coverage on the basis of preexisting conditions. The days of cherry-picking who to cover and who to deny – those days are over.

This is personal for me. I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition so it could get out of providing coverage. Changing the current approach to preexisting conditions is the least we can do – for my mother and every other mother, father, son, and daughter, who has suffered under this practice. And it will put health care within reach for millions of Americans.

Now, even if we accept all of the economic and moral reasons for providing affordable coverage to all Americans, there is no denying that it will come at a cost – at least in the short run. But it is a cost that will not – I repeat, not – add to our deficits. Health care reform must be and will be deficit neutral in the next decade.

There are already voices saying the numbers don't add up. They are wrong. Here's why. Making health care affordable for all Americans will cost somewhere on the order of one trillion dollars over the next ten years. That sounds like a lot of money – and it is. But remember: it is less than we are projected to spend on the war in Iraq. And also remember: failing to reform our health care system in a way that genuinely reduces cost growth will cost us trillions of dollars more in lost economic growth and lower wages.

That said, let me explain how we will cover the price tag. First, as part of the budget that was passed a few months ago, we've put aside $635 billion over ten years in what we are calling a Health Reserve Fund. Over half of that amount – more than $300 billion – will come from raising revenue by doing things like modestly limiting the tax deductions the wealthiest Americans can take to the same level it was at the end of the Reagan years. Some are concerned this will dramatically reduce charitable giving, but statistics show that's not true, and the best thing for our charities is the stronger economy that we will build with health care reform.

But we cannot just raise revenues. We also have to make spending cuts in part by examining inefficiencies in the Medicare program. There will be a robust debate about where these cuts should be made, and I welcome that debate. But here's where I think these cuts should be made. First, we should end overpayments to Medicare Advantage. Today, we are paying Medicare Advantage plans much more than we pay for traditional Medicare services. That's a good deal for insurance companies, but not the American people. That's why we need to introduce competitive bidding into the Medicare Advantage program, a program under which private insurance companies offer Medicare coverage. That will save $177 billion over the next decade.

Second, we need to use Medicare reimbursements to reduce preventable hospital readmissions. Right now, almost 20 percent of Medicare patients discharged from hospitals are readmitted within a month, often because they are not getting the comprehensive care they need. This puts people at risk and drives up costs. By changing how Medicare reimburses hospitals, we can discourage them from acting in a way that boosts profits, but drives up costs for everyone else. That will save us $25 billion over the next decade.

Third, we need to introduce generic biologic drugs into the marketplace. These are drugs used to treat illnesses like anemia. But right now, there is no pathway at the FDA for approving generic versions of these drugs. Creating such a pathway will save us billions of dollars. And we can save another roughly $30 billion by getting a better deal for our poorer seniors while asking our well-off seniors to pay a little more for their drugs.

So, that's the bulk of what's in the Health Reserve Fund. I have also proposed saving another $313 billion in Medicare and Medicaid spending in several other ways. One way is by adjusting Medicare payments to reflect new advances and productivity gains in our economy. Right now, Medicare payments are rising each year by more than they should. These adjustments will create incentives for providers to deliver care more effectively, and save us roughly $109 billion in the process.

Another way we can achieve savings is by reducing payments to hospitals for treating uninsured people. I know hospitals rely on these payments now because of the large number of uninsured patients they treat. But as the number of uninsured people goes down with our reforms, the amount we pay hospitals to treat uninsured people should go down, as well. Reducing these payments gradually as more and more people have coverage will save us over $106 billion, and we'll make sure the difference goes to the hospitals that most need it.

We can also save about $75 billion through more efficient purchasing of prescription drugs. And we can save about one billion more by rooting out waste, abuse, and fraud throughout our health care system so that no one is charging more for a service than it's worth or charging a dime for a service they did not provide.

But let me be clear: I am committed to making these cuts in a way that protects our senior citizens. In fact, these proposals will actually extend the life of the Medicare Trust Fund by 7 years and reduce premiums for Medicare beneficiaries by roughly $43 billion over 10 years. And I'm working with AARP to uphold that commitment.

Altogether, these savings mean that we have put about $950 billion on the table – not counting some of the longer-term savings that will come about from reform – taking us almost all the way to covering the full cost of health care reform. In the weeks and months ahead, I look forward to working with Congressto make up the difference so that health care reform is fully paid for – in a real, accountable way. And let me add that this does not count some of the longer-term savings that will come about from health care reform. By insisting that reform be deficit neutral over the next decade and by making the reforms that will help slow the growth rate of health care costs over coming decades, we can look forward to faster economic growth, higher living standards, and falling, not rising, budget deficits.

I know people are cynical we can do this. I know there will be disagreements about how to proceed in the days ahead. But I also know that we cannot let this moment pass us by.

The other day, my friend, Congressman Earl Blumenauer, handed me a magazine with a special issue titled, “The Crisis in American Medicine.” One article notes “soaring charges.” Another warns about the “volume of utilization of services.” And another asks if we can find a “better way [than fee-for-service] for paying for medical care.” It speaks to many of the challenges we face today. The thing is, this special issue was published by Harper's Magazine in October of 1960.

Members of the American Medical Association – my fellow Americans – I am here today because I do not want our children and their children to still be speaking of a crisis in American medicine fifty years from now. I do not want them to still be suffering from spiraling costs we did not stem, or sicknesses we did not cure. I do not want them to be burdened with massive deficits we did not curb or a worsening economy we did not rebuild.

I want them to benefit from a health care system that works for all of us; where families can open a doctor's bill without dreading what's inside; where parents are taking their kids to get regular checkups and testing themselves for preventable ailments; where parents are feeding their kids healthier food and kids are exercising more; where patients are spending more time with doctors and doctors can pull up on a computer all the medical information and latest research they'd ever want to meet that patient's needs; where orthopedists and nephrologists and oncologists are all working together to treat a single human being; where what's best about America's health care system has become the hallmark of America's health care system.

That is the health care system we can build. That is the future within our reach. And if we are willing to come together and bring about that future, then we will not only make Americans healthier and not only unleash America's economic potential, but we will reaffirm the ideals that led you into this noble profession, and build a health care system that lets all Americans heal. Thank you."

What a great speech. Other than the fact that we are not getting a single user system, I support this.

-- March 21, 2010 7:32 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Correction: A hundred thousand people die every year in American hospitals, from medical mistakes. That's true, but that figure I got elsewhere, and can be easily googled to verify.

-- March 21, 2010 9:34 PM


Census Guy wrote:

On second read, I guess that figure, of 100,000 Americans dying each year from medical mistakes, that figure was in Obama's speech after all. I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken!

-- March 21, 2010 9:37 PM


Census Guy wrote:

Fun Facts: Due to medical mistakes, every 7 years, the health care industry in America kills off more people than in the entire Great State of Alaska!

-- March 21, 2010 9:44 PM


Sara wrote:

Silver Linings
March 21, 2010 Posted by John at 4:13 PM

With Stupak's collapse, passage of the Democrats' government medicine bill is assured. This is a dark day in American history; one of the darkest. But there are many reasons for optimism. Here are a few:

* The health care battle is just beginning. Next, the Senate will try to enact the House's "fixes" to the original Senate bill. Some Senators say that won't happen. If not, then President Obama has the option of signing the original Senate bill--now passed by the House--Cornhusker Kickback and all. I assume he would do that, but the resulting blowback from House Democrats, not to mention the American people, would be something to behold.

* The health care bill's taxes will go into effect promptly, but its substantive provisions are, for the most part, deferred for four years. This means that we have plenty of time to repeal the legislation. Sure, it will take a new Congress and new President. But repealing this disaster of a bill will by a rallying cry for the American people for years to come. Moreover, even if the Republicans only take over the House in November, and not the Senate, won't it be possible to throw roadblocks in the way of the bill's implementation? Won't budget appropriations be necessary to sustain the various federal tentacles the bill seeks to establish? What will happen if the House simply refuses to fund them?

* I've never been prouder to be a Republican. The party's Congressional leaders have fought this battle to the end on behalf of the American people--with intelligence, toughness, persistence and good humor. The contrast between the parties has never been starker than in today's debate. If any intelligent Democrats were watching--there must be some left--they had to be embarrassed for their party.

* Paul Ryan has emerged as one of the conservative movement's strongest spokesmen. In the years to come, I think we will hear the words "I'm a Paul Ryan Republican" with increasing frequency.

* The health care debate has energized the conservative movement and awoken the sleeping giant, that is, the American people. The Democrats misinterpreted their electoral victories in 2006 and 2008 as a mandate for socialism. Now a majority of voters are intent on disabusing them of that misapprehension. Just about all of the political energy today is on the right--a remarkable fact, only sixteen months after the Democrats' high-water mark in November 2008.

* Barack Obama has used his political capital--pretty much all of it--on unpopular legislation that will continue to rile the voters for years to come. As a result, Obama is a remarkably unpopular second-year President. And he hasn't even experienced any bad luck yet. It is hard to see how he will be able to regain his footing.

So, be of good cheer. To paraphrase a great American, we have not yet begun to fight.

UPDATE: Tim Pawlenty tweets:

Hard to believe Congress would pass this mess of a health care plan. It will put us further into debt & dangerously expand scope of gov't.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/03/025892.php

-- March 21, 2010 11:10 PM


Census Guy wrote:

It's over!

The health care reform debates are over. The reform bill passed.

It's a great day to be a liberal!!!

With Stupak's coming to common sense, passage of the health care reform bill happened. This is a great day in American history. As Ronald Reagan used to say, "It's morning in America," Sara,... There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

The health care battle is coming to an end, although Republicans are in denial, the ball is on the 1 yard line. Republican delay tactics won't work anymore. This will energize Democrats and the Obama Presidency. He will be seen as a leader who can get things done. Even hard things that 7 Presidents, both Democrat and Republican, have failed to do, going back to Republican Teddy Roosevelt, in 1912m who tried to reform the health care insurance system.

Republicans tried to protect insurance companies. They forgot that insurance companies may give money to campaigns, but they don't vote. 32 million people that now have health care, they do vote, and will remember this.

Republicans are yesterday's party, dredging up the ghost of the Soviet Union, to bring up nonsensical, paranoid theories, about communism arising from the grave, and taking over, or theories about health care workers killing grandmothers, or decent health care for poor Americans somehow leading to Nazi-like dictatorships; theories that have no relationship to reality, and are embarrassing to listen to, outside a mental health ward.

However, for Republicans suffering from such delusions, thanks to the passage of this health care bill, help will be available at public hospitals. If you are uninsured, bring a list of your symptoms, and some ID, like membership in the Republican Party. Medical professionals are standing by with prescription pads, and reassuring tones, to help you in this difficult time.

But seriously, in the end, whatever my opinion, or Sara's, in the end, the American public will decide, over time, if the right reform was made.

But for today, Sara lost.

And now I'll do the merciful thing, bring out the shotgun, and put this debate out of it's misery, and suggest we get back to the Dinar. Thanks for your patience, and scrolling skills.

-- March 22, 2010 1:00 AM


anon wrote:

you two are a couple of the most boring people ive ever encountered. im sure glad that you all have enough time to sit around and argue and write write write write this garbage all day.

-- March 22, 2010 3:51 AM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

This health care fight is far from over; 23 states have stated they will file law suits against forcing people to buy the death prescribed by Obama and Pelosi. States Rights may rise again after all.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 22, 2010 11:20 AM


Tony C wrote:

Heheh I wish I could write like that and I did receive alot of information from both sides Thanks. I am a Republican but I do believe in Medical care for us and hope this bill will help our system, specially the Young and the Old who should never have to worry in getting any type of treatments in health care.

God Bless The USA

-- March 22, 2010 11:25 AM


NEIL wrote:

It is most difficult to find fault with anything that the liberals propose because they want to do something good for people who need help or need improvement in their lives. Giving medical coverage to people who normally visit emergency rooms is a great gesture. Giving pell grants to kids whose parents are near the poverty line is a great gesture. Putting all kids whose parents are near the poverty line under medicade is a good gesture. Making sure that children of unwed mothers are given a fair chance is a good gesture. Providing housing, utility supplements, welfare, food stamps, phone service, medicare and such to people who do not work sure helps them out. My only qualm concerning these nice gestures is "can we afford it?

The incentive to rise above your present circumstances seems to diminish when people are give almost as much as people who work. California has a weekly unemployment compensation of over $400.00 which will last for two years. Be assured that few people will be looking for work so long as the compensation is in effect.

The USA is about to lose its Triple "A" credit rating, which will trigger much higher rates of interest that we must pay on borrowed money thereby adding hugh sums to the deficit. Bill Gates could lose 20 billion dollars today and would still be one of the richest men in the world. The USA is in a similar situation-we started from such a rich, lofty position that we can waste, give away and spend recklessly for a long period before we start to see tangible consequences. I don't know how long before the collapse comes but we have charted a course that surely will take us there.

-- March 22, 2010 1:32 PM


NEIL wrote:

I do not see Obama and the Democrats deserving all the credit and laudatory remarks that they are celebrating about as I belive that a 15 year old boy who had the democrats in his pocket and the resources to bribe the few holdouts could have accomplished the same thing. They could have passed this bill last November but they were still holding on to a schred of principle and were trying to act like they were following the rules. Obama had all the chips and all the aces so it was a cakewalk once he decided to ram it down the American people's throat. The votes have been there all along. What worries me is now that the precedent has been set, what will be rammed down our throat next?

-- March 22, 2010 1:44 PM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

Access to healthcare is not an inalienable right. Healthcare like any other commodity is determined by the market place not government price controls. This program like all other government programs is designed to destroy the middle class and fosters dependence upon the Federal Government instead of independence.

Neil is right, this country cannot afford such a program. Twenty-three states including Texas will sue the Federal Government over forced healthcare. Those liberals thinking the fight is over are badly mistaken.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 22, 2010 2:56 PM


Sara wrote:

Florida & 9 Other States to File Obamacare Lawsuit
Monday, March 22, 2010, 6:11 AM
Jim Hoft

The State of Florida joined nine other states today to file a lawsit against the democrat’s rationed health care system.
Reuters reported:

“The health care reform legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives last night clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes on each state’s sovereignty,” Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican, said in a prepared statement announcing a news conference.

“On behalf of the State of Florida and of the Attorneys General from South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania, Washington, North Dakota, South Dakota and Alabama if the President signs this bill into law, we will file a lawsuit to protect the rights and the interests of American citizens.”

Comments:

1) Jonathan

Forget the lawsuits. 29 states are considering them – find 5 more states and pull together a constitutional convention. All sorts of fun stuff could come out of that – scare the bejeezus out of Congress.

2) bg

++

State Legislators Announce Plans to Formally Reject ObamaCare

[State Representative Dan Flynn (R-Van), announced his plan to file legislation to prohibit the implementation of the overarching federal healthcare overhaul in Texas: “I view this act to be unconstitutional and a power grab by the Pelosi/Reid group. It is devastating to all Texans who have overwhelmingly voiced their concerns and received a “slap in the face” from Congress.”

On Wednesday, March 17, Idaho became the first state to formally reject ObamaCare as Governor Butch Otter signed a law that requires the state attorney general to file suit against the federal government.

The Associated Press reports that similar legislation is pending in thirty-seven other states.

3) Willy

I’m interested in this. Can enough states form a constitutional convention to repeal obamacare?

If so, let’s roll.

4) Palinfan

I will post this until November and don’t care if people will be sick of hearing it:

1) Every effort must be made to put Conservatives into office.

2) Those Conservatives must vote to REPEAL Obamacare.

5) jonyjoe101

today we awoke in a communist country, everyone will share what they have with the have nots, whether you work or don’t work.
Even the illegals will live like kings here in the good old USSA.

The supreme court works for obama, they won’t hear let alone overturn the obamacare.

6) down with dems

RE: Constitutional amendment -

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/299676.php
“2/3rds of State Legislatures Can Force Vote on Constitutional Amendment to Repeal Health Care”

7) Nathan R. Jessup

I have heard numbers as high as 38 [states]. If anyone knows of a state that is truly willing to function as a Constitutional Republic (as our Founders intended), let me know and I will gladly leave Boston for such destination…

How did we end up here? I don’t recognize my Country anymore.

8) Summer

Add Michigan to the List:

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164–233880–,00.html
***
March 22, 2010

LANSING – Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox today announced that Michigan has joined the State of Florida in a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of health care legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives Sunday night (H.R. 3590).

“Congress’ attempt to force Michigan families to buy health insurance – or else – raises serious constitutional concerns,” said Cox. “We will fight to defend the individual rights and freedoms of Michigan citizens against this radical overreach by the federal government.”

Michigan joined several states in Florida’s legal challenge to H.R. 3590. The lawsuit challenges Congressional authority under the U.S. Constitution to enact an individual mandate compelling Michigan citizens to purchase health insurance or face large fines.

Cox also expressed concern about the continued inclusion of the so-called “Cornhusker Kickback” in legislation. The “Kickback” allows the State of Nebraska to avoid paying its fair share of an expansion of Medicaid by forcing taxpayers in states like Michigan to pick up the $100 million tab.

In December, Cox joined a bi-partisan group of Attorneys General from across the country opposing the kickback and demanding Congress remove the unfair provision or potentially face legal action.

9) mark

Can we move all leftists into one area of the country and let them do what they want and move all conservatives hard-working Americans into another part? Create independent States if necessary but your socialism crap isn’t welcome in our lands.

10) S. Wolf

mark, Nope but we can put the burden of taxes on Democrats. If they like debt and taxes so much let them pay off the debt with 75% tax. Unconstitutional? Who cares? Not them.

In the meantime sign the petition to Repeal it.

11) myohmy

Mark, that will not work. In order for socialism to succeed you need other’s people money to spend. That is exactly what democrats needs more sheeples for their massive welfare entitlement.

12) Kristen

Come on states! They didn’t listen to us as individuals, maybe they will listen to us as a collective. We need to keep this monstrosity challenged every which way. It’s a sad day in America when the citizens need to be protected from the gov’t. Isn’t that how we founded this country to start with? Protecting our people from Englands gov’t? Insanity.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/florida-9-other-states-to-file-obamacare-lawsuit/

-- March 22, 2010 3:35 PM


Sara wrote:

Allawi leads Iraq vote, Maliki asks for recount
Reuters
Last updated 08:44 22/03/2010

Secularist challenger Iyad Allawi retained a slim lead in Iraq's tight election race after a preliminary count of 95 percent of votes released on Sunday.

The lead from Iraq's March 7 parliamentary election has switched several times between Allawi's cross-sectarian Iraqiya coalition and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki mainly Shi'ite bloc, State of Law, signalling a close result whoever comes out top.

Allawi led Maliki by about 11,000 votes with 95 percent of the ballots tallied, according to preliminary results released by the Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC).

Election officials said the results of a 100 percent preliminary count would be made public on Friday.

Maliki on Saturday called for a recount saying the country could return to violence if the demand were not met.

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, also called on Sunday for the IHEC to order a recount in some provinces. All the contenders have made allegations of irregularities or fraud.

In the Shi'ite holy city of Najaf, only 300 demonstrators gathered on Sunday near a provincial government building, demanding a recount.

Maliki, a Shi'ite who won over many Iraqis with his nationalist rhetoric and steps to crush sectarian violence, noted in a statement late on Saturday there were demands from several political blocs to manually recount the votes.

Maliki's call for a recount is mainly for votes cast in Baghdad and several other provinces, Ali al-Mussawi, an aide to the prime minister said, without specifying which provinces.

"The reason is that there were doubts of manipulation and sometimes evidence of manipulation,'' he said.

"As you saw, the election was running in one direction and suddenly it went in another direction, which created doubts for both politicians and the Iraqi people.''

NO EVIDENCE

Qasim al-Aboudi, spokesman for the electoral commission, downplayed the possibility of a national recount.

"The recount demand must be based on large and strong reasons and there must be conclusive evidence for systematic, widespread fraud and this did not happen and was not indicated by any local or international report,'' Aboudi said.

Supporters of Maliki's State of Law coalition had earlier asked for a recount in Baghdad after results showed their candidate trailing the Allawi's Iraqiya.

Maliki and Allawi have been locked in a neck-and-neck race for seats in the 325-member parliament, which will be allocated on the basis of each coalition's results in each of the 18 provinces, not by the national vote count.

Maliki led in seven provinces in central and southern Iraq, six of them mainly Shi'ite. Allawi led in five provinces, sweeping western and northern areas that are home to large numbers of Sunni Arabs.

Allawi also holds a narrow lead over the powerful Kurdish ruling bloc in Kirkuk, the disputed city that is Iraq's northern oil hub.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/3483822/Allawi-leads-Iraq-vote-call-for-recount

-- March 22, 2010 3:43 PM


Sara wrote:

Just wondering.. was this how you remember Obama's election platform?

===

Sharpton: “Americans Overwhelmingly Voted For Socialism When They Elected Obama” (Video)
Monday, March 22, 2010, 5:15 AM
Jim Hoft

The Change You’ve Been Looking For…
Al Sharpton told Geraldo Rivera last night (you probably had already switched the channel and missed this) that,
“Americans overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected Barack Obama.”
Via NewsBusters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqojWrtnieI&feature=player_embedded

NewsBusters has the transcript:

“First of all, then we have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama,” Sharpton said. “Let’s not act as though the president didn’t tell the American people – the president offered the American people health reform when he ran. He was overwhelmingly elected running on that and he has delivered what he promised.”

===end quote===

This is another example that every once in a while, a democrat forgets his talking points and speaks the truth.

Barack Obama explained it this way last night– “This is what Change looks like.”

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/sharpton-americans-overwhelmingly-voted-for-socialism-when-they-elected-obama-video/

Was this the CHANGE America thought she was getting.. what America was looking for?
Did America KNOW that a vote for Obama was voting for socialism, as Sharpton says?

Sara.

-- March 22, 2010 4:12 PM


Sara wrote:

Al-Maliki: Iraq's Ahmadinejad?
23/03/2010
By Tariq Alhomayed

It seems that the State of Law coalition which is led by Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is not afraid to use threats and subterfuge in order to remain in power. Al-Maliki called on the Independent High Electoral Commission [IHEC] to perform a manual recount of all votes "in order to protect the democratic experience and preserve the credibility of the electoral process." Al-Maliki used language that inspires concern when he said that he was speaking in his position as "the executive official responsible for drawing up and implementing the policy of the country and as the commander in chief of the armed forces." He is calling for a manual recount of votes, saying that this would "safeguard political stability and prevent a return to violence" in Iraq. Of course this is clear threatening language and an attempt by al-Maliki to maintain his grip on power.

The issue does not stop here, and the State of Law coalition candidate Adnan al-Saraj issued a statement to the Iranian media saying that suspicions are hanging over the election results and warning that the Iraqi street has reached boiling point.

What is strange about al-Saraj's statement is that he said that there are suspicions surrounding the company that provided Iraq with the [electronic] vote counting devices, saying that this company "is owned by the MKO [People's Mujahedin of Iran] terrorist group and [these devices] could be programmed in a manner that does not allow them to identify [electoral] content, and this is something that strongly calls for a manual recount of votes." This is a ridiculous and pitiful claim!

With reference to these threatening statements, the question here must be: has Mr. Nuri al-Maliki today become the Ahmadinejad of Iraq?

Brandishing one's power by mentioning the armed forces only serves to remind us of one thing and that is when the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and other Iranian security apparatus rushed to control the situation following the last presidential elections in Tehran, suppressing the demonstrations who rejected what they saw to be a clear theft of their votes. This resulted in the division of Iranian society, and this division remains until today, and so is this something desired for Iraq?

If Mr. Nuri al-Maliki is keen to protect the democratic experience and preserve the credibility of the electoral process – as he claims – then he must first respect the ballot box and the election results. This is something that is not done through issuing threats or brandishing power, but rather by ensuring the peaceful transfer of power and making certain that Iraq crosses into safety, especially as Baghdad is at a critical stage. What has been accomplished in Iraq remains fragile, and there are sectarian tensions on one hand and external interference on the other, and the only hope that Iraq has seen is from the results of the election. These results – as noted in previous articles – show a national awareness, and this is a sign of the rejection of the religious trends, and the Iraqis have voted in a manner that is a cause for optimism for the secular coalition which is headed by Dr. Iyad Allawi.

Prior to the Iraqi elections and in light of the suppression of some with regards to excluding some candidates from the democratic process under the pretext of "Debathification" the fear was that Iraq would become another Lebanon. However today it seems that we are facing a greater threat than this, which is the danger of Iraq as a whole following the Iranian experience; therefore we say beware that Nuri al-Maliki does not become Iraq's Ahmadinejad.

http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=20335

-- March 23, 2010 11:52 AM


Sara wrote:

Remembering just how far Iraq has come in such a short period of time.
Thank God.

===

Saddam-era mass gave found in Iraq's south
Tuesday, 03.23.10
The Associated Press

BAGHDAD -- Iraq's Human Rights Ministry says a Saddam Hussein-era mass grave dating to his 1991 suppression of a Shiite revolt has been unearthed in the south.

Ministry's spokesman Kamil Ameen says government teams working on an irrigation project found the grave in an agricultural area in Maysan province.

Ameen told The Associated Press Tuesday that about 20 bodies were unearthed. The irrigation project has been put on hold until the excavation is complete.

Since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion toppling Saddam's regime, mass graves have been found across Iraq.

Following Saddam's defeat in the first Gulf War, Iraq's Shiites revolted in the south, but were brutally suppressed. Hundreds of thousands are believed to have been killed.


http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1542736/new-saddam-era-mass-gave-found.html

-- March 23, 2010 12:07 PM


Sara wrote:

Censusguy and the Dem's celebrated Obamacare.. an indication of the direction of where they are truly heading the nation:

===

A New Low… Liberal Media Now Running Terri Shiavo “Pull the Plug” Musical Comedy for Children (Video)
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
Jim Hoft

Well, here’s a new low from the godless left… “Family Guy” marked the 5 year anniversary of Terri Shiavo’s court-ordered death by staging a children’s musical comedy about pulling the plug.

Maybe they’re preparing us for Obamacare?

Since when did mocking a family over the court-ordered death of their daughter become good humor?

Video at url below if you wish to see it:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/a-new-low-liberal-media-now-running-terry-shiavos-death-musical-for-children-on-tv-video/

-- March 23, 2010 12:23 PM


Sara wrote:

20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms
By David Hogberg
Sun., March 21, '10

It is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.

Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin’s adage, “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.”

The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.

1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)

2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).

3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).

6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).

7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))

8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))

12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))

13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).

14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).

The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).

That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).

20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1563-20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms

-- March 23, 2010 12:36 PM


Sara wrote:

RobN - Didn't you say that Global Warming is the biggest tax grab in history?
Guess what they hope is next?

===

After health, Obama allies zero in on climate
Mar 22, 2010

After a hard-fought victory on health care reform, President Barack Obama's allies in Congress are setting their sights on climate change -- but some on both sides are already crying foul.

Environmentalists hope Obama will seize on new political momentum to push forward climate legislation.

Senator John Kerry, who has spearheaded climate legislation, said that White House officials can now "pour their energy and attention" into the issue after Sunday's down-to-the-wire vote on expanding health care coverage.

"In the wake of health care's passage, we have a strong case to make that this can be the next breakthrough legislative fight," the Massachusetts Democrat argued.

The House of Representatives in June approved a bill that would start the country's first nationwide "cap-and-trade" system that restricts carbon emissions blamed for global warming and allows trading in credits.

The Senate has yet to offer companion legislation, despite pressure on the United States to finalize an action plan before December's climate summit in Copenhagen.

Unlike health care, which split on sharply partisan lines, Kerry voiced confidence in winning Republican support. He is working on climate legislation with Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a vociferous foe of Obama's health care plan.

But the odd-couple alliance, which also includes independent Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, has raised concern among some green groups.

Despite Graham's support, most Republicans remain opposed to action on climate change, arguing that it will harm an already fragile economy.

Republican Senator Scott Brown, who won a special election in January in Massachusetts, is critical of climate legislation. Representative Mark Kirk of Illinois, one of only eight Republicans to vote for the bill in June, has changed course as he seeks a Senate seat.

Ben Lieberman, a senior policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said it would be "enormously complicated" to draft a climate and energy bill that satisfies all sides.

"There may or may not be time for another initiative" after health care, Lieberman said. "There's not a lot of time between now and when legislators have to get serious about elections."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.b24442bc9647cf6ceeb5e334a6908618.d01&show_article=1

Ah, yes.. the Progressives may support this, Republican and Democrat.
What politician can resist free money coming into their hands by an unprecedented taxgrab?
Apparently, few.

Sara.

-- March 23, 2010 1:01 PM


Steve wrote:


Dear Warka Clients,
Please note that we have just been informed that Iraqi Customs will no longer permit courier companies to receive and deliver packages containing funds of any currency and strictly prohibits this matter locally. The client will bear the full responsibility and risk of sending funds by mail where the bank will not bear any financial or legal responsibility for the funds sent by mail
Best regards,
Warka Bank for Investment and Finance.

So what they are saying is you can still post but, if it gets lost its tough titty

-- March 23, 2010 10:29 PM


Sara wrote:

Liberals are argumentative people. I find it exhausting to even try and debate because when the Conservative side obviously wins, like with the argument I had on here earlier concerning Global Warming, etc.. they merely move on to the next point.. over and over and over. And when it gets wearying, and we become worn down and tired of it so that we don't wish to constantly give more arguments, they claim victory, when all they have done is exhaust people like me. We have the truth on our side and logical arguments but their constant smooth talking and argumentativeness wears the people down. There really is no point in it. They never give up.. it is like trying to get an atheist intellectual to come to faith in God. They give an argument why He cannot possibly exist, so you answer that one.. then they give another.. and you answer that. Then they bring up a third.. and so on.. on and on. Until finally it dawns on you.. they aren't ever going to see the light. They will always find another argument to hide behind, rather than face the truth. Liberalism, or Progressives, are like that with their political agenda. They are not compassionate people seeking to help the less fortunate. They are Marxists, using our faith in God and our morality which stems from Him as tools to get us to believe that "social justice" demands they confiscate our riches for the less fortunate. They institutionalize greed and stealing and call it godly behavior.. "to help the poor."

Communism never has helped anyone living under that miserable system and it won't help America to help its poor either. No matter how it SEEMS that they are helping.. in the end, it destroys. They are indeed clever, as are any other sugar baited hooks satanic lies are coated in. And there are far too few fighting, as we have seen. The enemies of America take it by storm because Americans have no backbone to fight and few fighters. Eventually, the people of America will see the truth, and by then, it may be too late. As Sir Winston Churchill once observed: “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” That is where America has chosen to go.. by allowing a Marxist socialist in the WH. Some of the Democrats are sure the public will fall back asleep between now and the elections.. that they will choose the silken cords of slavery in the name of compassion for the poor and needy, as Communism has always claimed it was for. Others say that the Democrats will win by fraud and getting illegal aliens declared as citizens to vote the Progressives and their handouts back into power. Some say that, just like the elites in Washington are out of touch with the people, so are the courts and they will not uphold the Constitution against the legislative branch of government, so there will be no redress that way. And yet others are saying that the people will become so angry they will stage open rebellion which the government can then crush and so take over the country by force. But those who confront their wicked ideology have little support and so, like me, fall silent from exhaustion. I hope theirs won't be an inactive silence which ends the Republic for good come November. I hope the American people can remember the lies and have not yet forgotten what freedom is.. that they will not give up the fight so as to give in finally, giving up their God-given freedom in the name of supposed "compassion".. only to live as slaves to the all powerful government who will "redistribute" their wealth.

Sara.

-- March 24, 2010 1:02 AM


Steve wrote:


A son of, H. mahmoodj. Al-Bunnia & Sons

Or the son that is the owner of Warka Bank

This is his site for all the other companies he owns

Http://www.Al-Bunnia.com/

-- March 24, 2010 1:54 AM


Steve wrote:


Or then agian it should be, http://www.al-bunia.com/

-- March 24, 2010 1:57 AM


Steve wrote:

Or then again it should be, http://www.al-bunia.com/

-- March 24, 2010 1:58 AM


Sara wrote:

Jenkins: Iraq needs Talabani’s leadership
By Ari Anwar

24/3/2010

The British Ambassador to Iraq John Jenkins praised the constructive role President Talabani has been playing in bringing together various Iraqi ethnic and religious groups.

Meeting the Iraqi President Jalal Talabani in the resort town of Dukan outside the Kurdish city of Slemani, John Jenkins emphasized that the post elections stage is crucial as Iraqis are waiting the announcement of the final results of the recent parliamentary elections.

The two sides also discussed the latest political developments in Iraq as well as the ongoing meetings among different political entities to form the next Iraqi government.

The Iraqi President stressed that the coming four years will be decisive for all Iraqis.

For his part, the British Ambassador expressed his satisfaction of the smooth and stable proceeding of the elections process.

http://www.soma-digest.com/DirejeyHewal.aspx?Jimare=378&Soma=

-- March 24, 2010 12:20 PM


Sara wrote:

Lufthansa to resume operations to Iraq
Published in Airline Industry Information
Wednesday, 24 March 2010

German airline Lufthansa announced today that it is resuming flights to Iraq, after a 20-year break, on 25 April 2010.

The carrier will launch a four times weekly service from Frankfurt to Erbil, in Northern Iraq.

The four and a half hour flights will be operated using Airbus A319 aircraft with 132 seats.

Lufthansa said that it is also planning to resume flights to the Iraqi capital Baghdad this year and is currently making plans to do this.

http://www.m2.com/m2/web/story.php/20107A8AF0CC895F19A0802576F0003C913B/text/aii

-- March 24, 2010 12:23 PM


Sara wrote:

LUKoil to drill first exploration well at Iraq's West Qurna-2
MOSCOW, March 17 (RIA Novosti)

Russia's largest privately held oil company, LUKoil, plans to drill
the first exploration well at the West Qurna-2 oil field in Iraq,
LUKoil CEO Vagit Alekperov said on Wednesday.

"We'll start drilling the first exploration well at the end of the
year," Alekperov said, adding that the company's specialists were
already working at the site.

On January 31, LUKoil signed a 20-year contract to develop Iraq's
massive West Qurna-2 oil field.

LUKoil will develop the 12.88 billion-barrel oil field in the Basra
province in southern Iraq as a consortium with Norway's StatoilHydro.
The consortium, in which the Russian company holds 56.25% and
StatoilHydro 18.75%, won the tender for the oil field in December
2009.

The Iraqi National Oil Company will also join the consortium and hold
a 25% stake in the project.

LUKoil was involved in the development of the first phase of West
Qurna and signed a contract with the Saddam Hussein regime to develop
the second stage, but the deal was frozen in 2002.

Alekperov earlier said that the international consortium led by LUKoil
would invest some $30 billion in the development of the West Qurna-2
oil field.

http://groong.usc.edu/world/ru/msg08461.html

-- March 24, 2010 12:27 PM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

To date the Federal Government has nationalized the automobile industry; they have also nationalized the financial system while punishing free market activity like speculation and now they are in the process of the nationalizing healthcare. This is not the change the American people envisioned when voting for Obama. Where is the outrage, protest, and civil disobedience?

I suppose I have set myself up for disappointment because there has been 1.2 million Iraqis killed since the U.S. invasion of Iraq. The war protest have been anemic compared to those of the Vietnam era. An unjust war and the erosian of ones civil rights has not effect on this American populace. It appears we will get what we deserve for being so complacent.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 24, 2010 3:28 PM


Sara wrote:

Rob N;

CensusGuy said we lost when they pushed through healthcare.
I don't think so.
I agree that there is not much outrage for what has happened.
But I also know what the Lord is saying..
I think I mentioned before that it will turn out ultimately well..
but that there are dark times between now and then.
I think events have proven those to be true words...

Sara.

===

Michele Bachmann: Congratulations Mr. President, The Federal Government Has Taken Over Half of the Economy
Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Bachmann on the House floor..."I say congratulations Mr. President, you're half way there"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_gzQd6J6jk&feature=player_embedded

"The brass ring government controlled health care still taunted this Adm."

Bachmann: President Obama fully embraced the 700 billion dollar bailout plan...Government became the outright owner, the shareholder of America's largest banks...A breathtaking 33% of the private economy was purchased or controlled by the Federal Government was controlled in a span of 10 months time, the brass ring of government controlled health care still taunted this Administration, 18% of the private economy, the finest health care the world has ever known, was the long sought after prize of the political left...33% plus 18% equals 51% of the private economy controlled or owned by the Federal government...

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/michele-bachmann-congratulations-mr.html

-- March 24, 2010 4:07 PM


Sara wrote:

RobN;

As you know, the Democrats are in a very precarious position. They want to hold on to power and they are extremely unpopular. So they are trying to use the "by hook or by crook" - in this case CROOK, to get votes:

====

Forget amnesty, look where Democrats now stoop for votes!
Proposed law would grant Obama's party deluge of new supporters
Posted: March 23, 2010
By Drew Zahn

Democrats in Congress are pushing for a new law that would allow nearly 4 million people currently banned from voting to cast their ballot, and most of those millions, studies show, will vote Democrat.

And where will these new voters come from?

From the ranks of convicted felons.

Last week, a House subcommittee heard testimony on H.R. 3335, the "Democracy Restoration Act." The bill seeks to override state laws, which vary in how they restrict when convicted felons released from prison can vote.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=131313

Add to this the fact they are seeking to make illegal immigrants by the millions to vote.. and you end up with the scenerio that the Democrats may hold onto power by use of votes MOST of population will feel is wrong, though they may have "made" it legal. As Rush said recently:

===

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama
'The Constitution has been ripped to shreds, so why is anything safe?'
Posted: March 22, 2010
Rush Limbaugh

Talk-radio icon Rush Limbaugh today suggested the existence of U.S. elections is now threatened by a move he expects President Obama to pursue – a mass amnesty for illegal aliens – following the passage of his massive health-care reform plan.

"The next big push will be amnesty for ... millions of illegal immigrants who are here," he said on his radio program.

"Obama's gonna need their votes in 2012. The Democrats are going to need their votes in every election from now on – if we have elections, and I'm not joking.

"The Constitution has just been ripped to shreds, so why is anything safe?" he said.

Read the stunning report on how the unthinkable – the theft of an American election – may be on the horizon!

Limbaugh told radio listeners Democrats "must be hounded out of office."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=130577

I will add my two cents worth here..
If the elections are seen to be stolen, that is, the people believe that they have been disenfranchised from the true result..
I believe that we will see Civil War.
(Perhaps it can be avoided.. not sure that the Progressives will cease in their attempted overtake, though.)
When I pray (and I have prayed on this for some time now) the Lord continually tells me that, as it stands now, it will be Civil War.
That is where the US is now headed as we speak and it is definitely looking that way more now than before.
This is like the movie NEXT where there is a window given, but it can change, so that is why I say, perhaps it can be avoided.
But I digress..
The Lord told me there will be, in His words, "unprecedented violence"..
Those words.. "unprecedented violence".. how do I give you the feeling behind those words?
Other than a shudder of horror going down the spine, I mean.
Take the worst and most violent movies made.. and go beyond that.
Remember, this is the military superpower of the world, engaged in this fight.
It will not be pretty.
As a matter of fact, I got the impression I would throw up if He elaborated more,
so I didn't ask.. the impression was enough.
But the ones who win the fight will also have the government.
And that, my friend, will be those people who honor the Constitution and founders.
The Patriots, the Lord says, will win.
Presumably.. there are more of us than them, when it comes to actual war.
And as the Lord tells me.. those against us have been marked very carefully.
When it is unleashed, everyone knows who these enemies are.
It won't take a rocket scientist to remove those who pose this threat to the Republic.
They have identified themselves, and the Lord says, it is identification UNTO their destruction.
That is why they were allowed to do this.. not to win.
They not only don't win by what they have done.. they won't survive.
They signed their own death warrants, not a future of "hope and change."
Let's wait and see how it works out.. but that is the game plan.
It is the reality of the future at this point in time, as it currently stands.
America will be brought to Civil War.. if things remain on the course they have taken.
Don't believe me? Let's wait and see if I am right.
As Glenn Beck says.. but what if I am?

Sara.

-- March 24, 2010 4:47 PM


Sara wrote:

un·prec·e·dent·ed
–adjective
- without previous instance; never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
- Having no previous example.

-- March 24, 2010 4:55 PM


Tony F wrote:

Sara, I follow this blog occassionaly, as I have some Dinar. You are very smart, but nuts. There will be no civil war in these good old United States of Obamica. How could there be a civil war? You can't tell a Democrat from a Republican. We live side by side, on every street. We are your neighbors. How do you know who to shoot? Civil war, schmival war.

If you really have the guts, go shoot Obama.

That would end it, wouldn't it?

So. do you have the guts, Sara?

No.

Obama is in public rallies all the time. Look up on the internet. There are plastic guns, with real bullets available, that will avoid detection by metal detectors. The Second World War could have been avoided if just one man had the courage to shoot Hitler. No one did. If Obama will cause a civil war, you should shoot him. Will you shoot Obama? It wouldn't be that hard, for a clever person. There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. Will you use one?

You are full of hot air Sara and probably afraid of your own shadow.

I hope the FBI is monitoring you on this site, via logarithms, and puts you in jail.

-- March 24, 2010 8:57 PM


Steve wrote:


If Im flying to Iraq I hope its when I am worth a boatload of cash
and will fly by, http://www.royaljetgroup.com/pages/showpage.php?id=356

-- March 24, 2010 11:11 PM


Sara wrote:

Hey, you are welcome to your opinion, Tony.
I wasn't advocating violence, just saying it will be.
But, you are free to disagree and even think me "nuts".
We'll have to wait and see if you are correct though.
I still think we will see it (violence).
I prefer Glenn Beck's code of only using the ballot box, though.
But I just don't think it will be seen as enough.
If you watched him tonite, you may have noted that even he said..
that the government is trying to provoke violent acts.
I think it is not beyond the scope of reason now to see that it may indeed be.
They may get what they are aiming at, which is violence.
In his talk (six minute segment) on "reversing the roles."
HERE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P8VEQwCLAM&feature=player_embedded

After explaining the radical roots of those now in the WH and surrounding power, he says,
QUOTE:
"Why would the government continue to poke you, poke you, and poke you, and poke you?
Why would they say these things?
Why would they say these things about good Americans??
They know how you feel.. and it drove them, some of them, to start throwing bombs.
They're counting on it.
And they learned that once they threw a bomb they were done.
This night might be the most dangerous monologue I have ever done because I am telling you now...
THEY NEED YOU TO BE VIOLENT... They are begging for it.
You're being set up.
Do not give them what they want."

===end quote==

So you see, I am not the only one who sees it can become violent.
I simply asked the Lord if it WILL get violent.. and got a yes.
So that is what I believe will become our future.. unless it is changed.
It is what the US has become.
I am not advocating it, anymore than Glenn Beck is.
But I am telling you.. it is the future as the future now stands.
RobN was saying what wimps Americans are..
how they are letting their freedoms go without standing.
I was correcting his opinion with the fact that they are being restrained now..
and shortly it may come to pass that the restraint will be lifted.
They will be pushed too far.
I believe that is what the government is trying to accomplish.
And accomplish it, they will.
And then.. they will lose, badly.
The gamble will not end in a win for this government.
But will end.. very badly.. for them.
That is also what I got in prayer.
And you are free to disagree.
The future isn't written yet..
But I think I have seen it.
We will see.

Sara.

-- March 25, 2010 1:37 AM


Sara wrote:

About Iraq - elections.
I felt this really insightful, an opinion I read, but worth posting.
March 25, 2010

Iran is currently pushing for Maliki's State of Law to join with the Iraqi National Alliance of the Supreme Council and Sadrists. The Iranian ambassador to Iraq also just met with Pres. Talabani so they may be pushing for the Kurds to join that mix. This is what Maliki wants as well, to maintain the current coalition behind him. The problem is Sadr has come out against Maliki, and they won the most seats in the National Alliance.

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/24/iraq_the_unraveling_etc

-- March 25, 2010 12:11 PM


Sara wrote:

In another article, dated Thursday 25th March, reading between the lines.. it says the same thing.
It looks like Allawi and Sadr's group, the INA, may join forces to form the next government,
though some talks with Maliki's group have also taken place, with nothing being achieved there:

BAGHDAD — ... late in the evening, members of the Iraqi National Alliance held a news conference to discuss their own talks with al-Maliki’s main challenger, the Iraqiya coalition of Sunnis and Shiites led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi—a clear signal that in Iraq’s rapidly moving political scene few alliances are off the table.

The Sadrists are widely thought to have the largest number of seats in the Iraqi National Alliance, and many analysts question whether the Sadrists might break off from the INA.

Al-Maliki is unpalatable to many Sadrists because of his crackdown on their militiamen in the southern city of Basra and in their eastern Baghdad stronghold. Al-Maliki has also refused to release al-Sadr’s followers held in Iraqi jails.

A Sadrist official in the holy city of Najaf, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media, played down Tuesday’s talks, saying nothing has been achieved and that Sadrists were still firmly opposed to al-Maliki continuing as prime minister.

Whoever gets the top job will oversee Iraq as U.S. forces go home and help determine whether the country can overcome its sectarian divisions.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/meeting-of-shiite-rivals-in-iraq-may-signal-shift

-- March 25, 2010 12:19 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq electoral blocs separated by slim margin
25 March 2010

The head of Iraq’s election commission says the leading blocs in the country’s parliamentary race are separated by a slim one or two seat margin.

Independent High Electoral Commission chief Faraj al-Haidari also told The Associated Press on Thursday that vote tallying is complete and the commission expects to sort through dozens of outstanding electoral complaints by the end of the day before announcing full results Friday.

He says candidates will then have three days starting Saturday to appeal the results before they become final.

In the overall vote tally, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s coalition narrowly trails a bloc led by former prime minister Ayad Allawi, with 95 percent of the vote count released.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2010/March/middleeast_March563.xml§ion=middleeast&col=

-- March 25, 2010 12:28 PM


Sara wrote:

55% of Americans Want Obamacare Repealed; 52% Will Vote For Pro-Repeal Candidates
Thursday, March 25, 2010, 5:50 AM
Jim Hoft

So much for an Obamacare bounce… Most Americans want Pelosi’s Christmas Present returned and repealed.
Rasmussen reported:

Just before the House of Representatives passed sweeping health care legislation last Sunday, 41% of voters nationwide favored the legislation while 54% were opposed. Now that President Obama has signed the legislation into law, most voters want to see it repealed.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey, conducted on the first two nights after the president signed the bill, shows that 55% favor repealing the legislation. Forty-two percent (42%) oppose repeal. Those figures include 46% who Strongly Favor repeal and 35% who Strongly Oppose it.

In terms of Election 2010, 52% say they’d vote for a candidate who favors repeal over one who does not. Forty-one percent (41%) would cast their vote for someone who opposes repeal.

Not surprisingly, Republicans overwhelmingly favor repeal while most Democrats are opposed. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 59% favor repeal, and 35% are against it.

===

The corruptocrats were hoping that once the bill was passed that Americans would rally around it.
Think again.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/55-of-americans-want-obamacare-repealed/

-- March 25, 2010 1:05 PM


Sara wrote:

Golly, aren't Americans so stupid?
It took 234 years until America caught up with Communist Cuba..
but hey, Castro thinks America is just as great at Communist healthcare as he and his country are now.
Aren't you all pleased?
Such Progress!
After all, there's no arguments against that, are there?
Finally, America has joined the club!

===

Cuban leader applauds US health-care reform bill
Dubious endorsement? Cuban leader endorses US health care reform, says it's about time

Paul Haven, Associated Press Writer, On Thursday March 25, 2010, 12:39 pm EDT
HAVANA (AP) -- It perhaps was not the endorsement President Barack Obama and the Democrats in Congress were looking for.

Cuban revolutionary leader Fidel Castro on Thursday declared passage of American health care reform "a miracle" and a major victory for Obama's presidency, but couldn't help chide the United States for taking so long to enact what communist Cuba achieved decades ago.

And he said it was remarkable that the most powerful country on earth took more than two centuries from its founding to approve something as basic as health benefits for all.

"It is really incredible that 234 years after the Declaration of Independence ... the government of that country has approved medical attention for the majority of its citizens, something that Cuba was able to do half a century ago," Castro wrote.

The longtime Cuban leader -- who ceded power to his brother Raul in 2008 -- has continued to pronounce his thoughts on world issues though frequent essays, titled "Reflections," which are published in state newspapers.

Cuba provides free health care and education to all its citizens, and heavily subsidizes food, housing, utilities and transportation, policies that have earned it global praise. The government has warned that some of those benefits are no longer sustainable given Cuba's ever-struggling economy, though it has so far not made major changes.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuban-leader-applauds-US-apf-124808403.html?x=0&.v=1

On the other hand.. there could have been a reason it took 234 years.
Or maybe two or three..
Hmmm.. I wonder what they were?
Guess it doesn't really matter anymore, does it?
Like Obama and Censusguy both say, they won, right?

Sara.

-- March 25, 2010 4:31 PM


Sara wrote:

I found this opinion interesting..
Quote, We are in a civil war my friends. A nonviolent, for the time being, civil war. (end quote)
Worth a read.

===

What Obamacare has done to America.

Today I heard some interesting discussions regarding Obamacare from various people. At work tonight I overheard, and later engaged in, some 3 separate discussions involving at last 15 or more people and they all, ALL, were adamant, even vicious, in their opposition to Obamacare. Not only was the language describing Obamacare peppered with colorful and sometimes questionable language, but I dare not repeat some of the things said lest I want some guys wearing shades and black suits at my doorstep tomorrow. Keep in mind, these are blue collar, low income earners, some even Democrats.

Which brings me to the point of this post. Obamacare is the driving wedge between two distinctly different ideological camps in this country. And it has only polarized those two sides even more. In fact, just since the passage of Obamacare I have heard language and observed a general aura of extreme resistance to government that would make a timetraveler coming to 2010 USA believe we are in the middle of a civil war. And rightfully so!

America, we are now, OFFICIALLY, a socialist nation. We stand side by side with the Euro-socialists. Our government controls just as much, if not more, of our economy than we do. We have entered a new chapter in American history entirely. No longer can we just nonchalantly oppose Obama because he is a socialist and he wants to bring a radical, progressive, socialist agenda to America like we did in 2008 and 2009. He has now done it!

American is a socialist nation. America is a socialist nation. America is a socialist nation.

Let in burn in good and long.

We are in a civil war my friends. A nonviolent, for the time being, civil war. These two sides are so extremely different, so entirely opposite, like oil and water.

One side believes healthcare is a human right. All people have a right, and are entitled to healthcare. No matter what the means, all should be able to get whatever medical treatment they need. All citizens should pay into a massive system, through higher taxes, and in turn be able to receive government funded care. Those who are healthy still must pay. All people have to pay for coverage, even if the policy does not apply to them, in order for others who it does apply to to get care. Everyone in a society should sacrifice a little so all can benefit.

The other side believes healthcare is a service and a privilege. Being a service, it costs money like any other product. Citizens should have the right to decide whether they want to have health insurance or not. They should be able to decide what type of policy they want, depending on their personal health and habits. They should be able to decide not to have health insurance, if they feel they are healthy enough that they won't need it or have enough money saved up to pay for it should they need it. People should not be forced to pay higher taxes in order to pay for other people's healthcare. Individual liberty is sacred and must not be infringed upon.

Yesterday a supporter of Obamacare said to me, "So if a child gets sick with leukemia and the parents don't have the money for healthcare insurance then you would just let them die?" Well no I wouldn't let them die, but I'm sure as hell not paying for it! If those parents don't have the money and their child is dying they can go to the church and send word out in the community. People will help! Americans are good people. But don't force me to pay for it. Maybe I'm just a coldhearted, old conservative but the way I see it back in the 1870's if you got sick you called the doctor to come to your house or you went to his office. He treated you and you paid him with money out of your pocket. You didn't ask old Jeremiah Washington who lives up in the holler or Mr. Wilson at the General Store or Miss Daisy at the saloon to cover your doctor visit. Does this make sense to ANYONE?

It all boils down to this folks. The first group of people believe in broad collectivization and government control, Marxist tenants by nature. The second group believes in individual liberty and the freedom to choose how you live your life free from government oversight. With the passage of Obamacare we have seen the clash of these two enemies on an unprecedented scale.

One of the aforementioned opponents to Obamacare that I talked to tonight was a friend of mine named Chuck. Chuck is 26. He smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day. He works 40 hours a week and pays little attention to politics other than stating "Bush was one of our worst presidents" and that he is extremely against the Iraq War.

Add Obama to that list. After the passage of Obamacare Chuck despises the Boy King with a passion. He said he now is very interested in politics and is willing to engage himself in it, simply because of his hatred for Obama. He is one of those types that knows nothing about Pelosi and Reid, yet barely enough to know what is going on in this country, enough to realize exactly what dangerous barriers we have crossed these last few days. Chuck says he didn't vote in the last election because he hated both Obama and McCain but now he can't wait for 2012 to "vote that bastard" out.

My point here is this. Obamacare has rustled feathers from coast to coast and awakened people of all walks of life. It has ignited, in essence, maybe not a conservative revolution, but certainly and anti-government/anti-Obama one. There are millions more out there like Chuck who were not actively engaged in the political arena who now hate Obama, Obamacare, and government so much that they are just itching for later this year, and 2012 on the horizon.

Yes, Obamacare may have molded America into a Sweden-esque Obamatopia. But it has inspired millions to stand up to tyranny and answer the call to liberty like this nation has not seen since 1776. And that is something more valuable than anything else. I will end with a quote from Thomas Jefferson.

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now"

http://www.hackwilson.blogspot.com/

-- March 25, 2010 6:38 PM


Sara wrote:

Also worth noting:

===

A spirit of resistance like I've never seen.

I stayed up into the wee hours of the morning today, monitoring internet activity to see what others thought of the health care outcome.

What I saw was a flurry of anti-Obamacare activity on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Yahoo! Answers and Google Trends like I'd never seen before.

Within minutes of the passage literally HUNDREDS of Facebook groups in opposition to the plan popped up with members joining at astonishing rates. I have never seen such extreme anger, outrage, and downright enthusiasm for revolt.

I headed over to Yahoo! Answers to see what everyone had to say and 8 out of every 10 political questions was negative towards the passage.

On Google Trends the number two search from midnight to 2 am was 'Fire Nancy Pelosi'! The number one search was 'Babykiller' in reference to sellout Bart Stupak being called that on the House floor.

On top of that, I had skyrocketing hits on this blog after posting about resisting the bill.

Ahh nothing like a little fiery resistance!

Actions are already being taken to resist Obamacare by some states, with a host of other states considering.

This aint' over yet. Not by a long shot.

And here are some excellent numbers I found over at The Right Site...

Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
U.S. 65%
England 46%
Canada 42%

Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S. 93%
England 15%
Canada 43%

Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
U.S. 90%
England 15%
Canada 43%

Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
U.S. 77%
England 40%
Canada 43%

Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
U.S. 71
England 14
Canada 18

Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”:
U.S. 12%
England 2%
Canada 6%

Keep the faith.

http://hackwilson.blogspot.com/2010/03/spirit-of-resistance-like-ive-never_22.html

-- March 25, 2010 6:44 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraqi Bonds Now on Par with California [Daniel Foster]
Wednesday, March 24, 2010

This is probably bad news for California, but it is certainly good news for Iraq:

Quote:

Traditional Wall Street investors have taken note. Iraq is now considered a safer bet than Argentina, Venezuela, Pakistan, and Dubai — and is nearly on par with the State of California, according to Bloomberg statistics on credit default swaps, which are considered a raw indicator of default risk.

“Compared to California, I’d rather bet on Iraq,’’ Daher said. “Iraq is a country where there are still bombs going off and people getting murdered, but they are less indebted than the United States. California is likely to have more demands on its resources, and there is no miracle where California is going to have more revenue coming out of the sky. Iraq has prospects for tremendously higher revenues, if they can manage to get their act halfway together, which they seem to be doing.’’

==end quote==

Perhaps Sacremento needs to start contemplating a Surge strategy.

More via The Feed.

(h/t Jim Pethokoukis)

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzZhOTljMGM5NWRhYzY5OGM5ZGRiZjBhNDU4ZDZmYTk=

-- March 25, 2010 10:57 PM


Sara wrote:

Even handed...

===

If King George Will Not Listen . . .
Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)
Thursday, March 25th

Acts of violence against congressmen for behaving as congressmen are wholly inexcusable... But let's not act suprised.

This is one of those posts that has to be written and has to be said, though I know going in to it I’m going to get beaten up from all sides, though especially from a left particularly out to get me right now.

Nonetheless, this must be said.

The threats, potential acts of violence, and violence against those who voted for the health care legislation must be condemned. They are neither helpful to those seeking repeal nor the acts of a civilized society. I comfortably say I speak for all the front page posters here condemning the violence and threats. The people who think this country has descended into the darkness do in fact send us down a dark path themselves with these actions.

Clear? Good.

Here comes the controversial part that still must be said: I have heard the audio of some of the threats. I get worse stuff routinely. Rush Limbaugh gets worse stuff on a daily basis. Republican members of Congress have gotten similar and worse stuff. Thank God this wasn’t a free trade vote or a variety of left wing groups would have half the country in flames right now. I do believe the 24 hours of threats, many of which were pretty weak, has gotten more national coverage than the leftist anarchists in Texas who molotov cocktailed the Texas Governor’s Mansion — for which arrests have never been made.

I am forced to largely conclude that the Democrats are running to the nearest microphone in an effort to play the victim and generate sympathy as they try to steer poll numbers back in their direction. (See also Ann Althouse, url)

Some of it is very bad stuff. I don’t want to underplay the bad. Some of it, however, is not. And some of it is overplayed. Like the press reports about protestors yelling racial epithets at Congressman Lewis, which video shows and reporters I’ve talked to confirm, did not happen, a lot of this is going to be overblown, but the media loves a good story.

As one example of the over the top “violence on Democrats” stories went, people put a coffin near Russ Carnahan’s home as a threat. Turns out it was for a prayer vigil.

But there is something else here.

There are a great many Americans who truly believe the Democrats shredded the constitution on Sunday night. Made more galling, the Democrats were pretty upfront that they were pushing it through before congressmen could go home and face their angry constituents every poll showed were opposed to this legislation. And only after the vote did the media really start talking about the taxes, the flexible spending account cuts, the pre-existing conditions loophole for kids, etc. — i.e. the bad stuff in the bill.

I’ve said for weeks I was a bit fearful of what would happen as a result. I sincerely pray we are not on the cusp of some group of angry and now unhinged mob lashing out at congressmen for a vote in the Congress. But something seems to be brewing and I frankly don’t think the Democrats should at all be surprised. They were and they knew they were playing with fire to advance legislation many Americans see as the undoing of the American Experiment. Some of those Americans will now conclude that, like with the founders, if King George will not listen, King George must be fought.

Acts of violence against congressmen for behaving as congressmen are wholly inexcusable. We should be vigilant to police our own side because as we’re already seeing through a series of breathless and inaccurate reports, the press and Democrats are going to be quick to run most any story and the retraction will never be as significant as the initial report.

But let’s not act surprised. The only people surprised by the rage are the ones who refused to venture outside Washington to understand first hand what the voters were actually thinking before congressmen voted.

Frankly, after all the leadership threats and bullying against swing Democrats to vote for leadership, I think it is a bit ironic Democratic leaders are now decrying threats and bullying of swing state Democrats by their constituents who very clearly did not want them to vote as they did.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/03/25/if-king-george-will-not-listen/

-- March 25, 2010 11:08 PM


Steve wrote:


Two patients with similar medical
problems both needing a hip replacement

The first one had to wait two weeks to see the doctor
Then six weeks to see a specialist
Then four weeks to have X-rays
And then a six month wait for the sugery

The second one saw the doctor the same day
And had X-rays there and then
Then had the surgery within a week


Why the difference in in speed for the surgery


The first one was a 65 year old man


The second one was a golden retriever

-- March 26, 2010 12:45 AM


Anonymous wrote:

The first one was on Obamacare - socialized medicine given by the government.
The second one's owner had to pay for it out of his own pocket - free enterprise.
Pets are not covered under socialized medicine.
And the dog is glad.

-- March 26, 2010 2:15 AM


Tony C wrote:

You forget even with this new care for the ones who cant aford medical care, we who can can still go to a private clinc or hosptil for care that we choose.

There are alot of working folks who cant aford medical, I know alot of them and they have been working most of there lifes but are the working poor, just getting by trying to paying there bills or feeding there childs this is my hope who will benifit the most.

I myself hope for the best even though I am one of millions who will help pay for this Law, and I myself dont worry about medical care becasue the Lord has bless me.

So you all who keep thinking this is another one taking our rights away, I say you are wrong you can still pay more and more medical care its your right, we have not lost that at all.

Lol I am a terrible writter not like Sara and Roger or even Rob N. I just hope you all got my point.

-- March 26, 2010 6:09 AM


Mrs. C wrote:

Tony, Tony C, he isa mya son. Heesa gooda boy, but hea no speaka da Inglish too gooda. But hea smarta boy. You listen to mya sona.

-- March 26, 2010 12:36 PM


Fidel Castro wrote:

Vive la Revolution!!!!

-- March 26, 2010 12:39 PM


Fidel Castro wrote:

Vive la Revolution!!!!

-- March 26, 2010 12:40 PM


Che Guevara wrote:

American is a socialist nation! America is a socialist nation! America is a socialist nation!

-- March 26, 2010 12:47 PM


Billy Bragg wrote:

The Internationale

American version
First stanza

Arise, ye workers from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and at last ends the age of cant!
Away with all your superstitions,
Servile masses, arise, arise!
We'll change henceforth the old tradition,
And spurn the dust to win the prize!

So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don't cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.

So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.

Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!

'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race

Second stanza

No more deluded by reaction,
On tyrants only we'll make war!
The soldiers too will take strike action,
They'll break ranks and fight no more!
And if those cannibals keep trying,
To sacrifice us to their pride,
They soon shall hear the bullets flying,
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.

So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.

We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgment hall,
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all:
To make the thief disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell,
We must ourselves decide our duty,
We must decide, and do it well.

'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race

-- March 26, 2010 12:54 PM


U.S.A. wrote:

United Socialists of America.
U.S.A!
U.S.A!

-- March 26, 2010 3:18 PM


Joseph McCarthy wrote:

There are Communists on this blog! Communists everywhere. Under my bed, I found a Communist this morning...That Census Guy, I'd like to ask him: Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? Answer that, Comrade. The President's father was a dirty Commie. Even the President is a Communist. Only Sara and me are left. We are not Communists. We are the last of the loyal and true Americans.

-- March 26, 2010 3:34 PM


Census Guy wrote:

JOE: no. Wait, actually, I AMMMMM!!! I'm a Commie! Run for your LIVES!!! BOOOOO!

-- March 26, 2010 3:36 PM


mattuk wrote:


Iraq gets its largest loan to date from IMF

Iraq is to be given a $3.6bn (£2.3bn) loan by the International Monetary Fund -the biggest to the country so far.

The money is aimed at helping Iraq rebuild its battered infrastructure.

The IMF has lent smaller amounts before, loans that came with the conditions of removing subsidies from manufacturers and farmers.

Iraq's revenue is suffering from a depressed oil price and it faces a financing gap of close to £5bn (£3.3bn) until the end of 2011.

Analysts say the conditions attached to previous IMF loans have caused resentment among Iraqis as they have struggled to compete with neighbouring countries in trade.

Iraq relies on oil revenues for as much as 90% of its income and desperately needs funds to rebuild after years of conflict and an insurgency triggered by the 2003 invasion.

bbc news uk

-- March 26, 2010 3:49 PM


Sara wrote:

Secular challenger's bloc wins most seats in Iraq
By KATARINA KRATOVAC, Associated Press Writer Katarina Kratovac, – 8 mins ago

BAGHDAD – A secular challenger's bloc edged out the prime minister's in parliamentary elections, according to full vote returns Friday.

Allawi is a secular Shiite politician and former prime minister who appealed across sectarian lines to minority Sunnis, who have been out of power since the downfall of Saddam Hussein. Al-Maliki vowed to challenge the results, which gave his bloc 89 seats to Ayad Allawi's 91 in Iraq's 325-seat parliament.

The victory will enable Allawi to try to form a coalition government with rival parties. But the narrow margin sets the stage for months of political wrangling. The next prime minister will lead a government that presumably will be in power when the U.S. completes its scheduled troop withdrawal from Iraq next year.

The March 7 elections suggest that millions of Iraqis are fed up with a political system that revolves around membership in one of the two major Islamic sects.

They also show that Iraqis — both Shiite and Sunni — are suspicious of Iranian influence. Allawi was widely seen as closer to the region's Arab governments than to Iran.

Earlier Friday, the top U.N. official in Iraq, Ad Melkert, called on all sides to accept the results. That sentiment was echoed by U.S. Ambassador Christopher R. Hill and Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military official in Iraq, who praised what they described as a "historic electoral process," and said they support the finding of election observers who found no evidence of widespread or serious fraud.

The results were based on numbers released by the election commission and compiled by The Associated Press. The commission released the seat allocation by province but did not include an overall number of seats won.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100326/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=A2KIKuuhEK1LUwAB1U.bOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTJzZmdiZWdiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzI2L21sX2lyYXEEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDc2VjdWxhcmNoYWxs

-- March 26, 2010 4:01 PM


Rob N. wrote:

All,

Allawi or Al-Malaki as PM of Iraq does not make a difference because they both are U.S. puppets and are servants of our very own industrial military complex. A government from the people, by the people, and for the people does not exist inside Iraq. The people in Iraq are victims of a genocide (1.2 million of Iraqis have been killed)perpetrated by the Hitler like invasion of their country by the U.S.. The people of Iraq have no representation and no purchasing power. As Iraq continues its monetary policy of continuing to print money while borrowing the situation in Iraq will only worsen.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 26, 2010 4:16 PM


Sara wrote:

Maryam Rajavi congratulates al-Iraqiya victory in Iraq elections, describes it good omen for region
Friday, 26 March 2010

NCRI - Following the victory of the al-Iraqiya coalition, led by Dr. Iyad Allawi, in the Iraqi parliamentary elections, Mrs. Maryam Rajavi, President-elect of the Iranian Resistance, congratulated the Iraqi people, Dr. Iyad Allawi, head of the al-Iraqiya coalition and Iraq National Movement; Dr. Saleh Mutlak, General Secretary of Iraq National Movement; and other leading al-Iraqiya figures, particularly Dr. Tariq al-Hashemi, Dr. Usama al-Nujaifi, Dr. Dhafer al-Ani and Dr. Rafe al-Issawi.

Mrs. Rajavi described this great victory as a reflection of unwavering resolve of the Iraqi people and Iraqi nationalist forces to end the Iranian regime's catastrophic meddling in their country and to establish a nationalist and democratic government.

The al-Iraqiya coalition won the election despite massive fraud and conspiracies by the Iranian regime and its agents in Iraq, including the barring of nationalist figures from participating in the elections and fabricating votes for coalitions affiliated with the regime as well as widespread fraud in the vote count.

This victory is undoubtedly the beginning of an era of peace, democracy and the healing of profound pain and suffering of Iraqi people, Mrs. Rajavi said. She added that this victory will also herald good omen for the people of Iran and all nations in the region as well as a disgraceful defeat for the mullahs’ regime. The regime in Iran, Mrs. Rajavi said, are trying to dominate Iraq in order to cover up its domestic crises and turn Iraq into a spring board to extend its hegemony to the whole region.

On behalf of the Iranian Resistance and arisen people of Iran, Mrs. Rajavi expressed hope that Mr. Allawi and the al-Iraqiya could overcome all obstacles and obstructions created by the Iranian regime and its agents in Iraq and form a nationalist and competent government to serve people of Iraq.

Secretariat of the National Council of Resistance of Iran - March 26, 2010

http://ncr-iran.org/content/view/7971/1/

-- March 26, 2010 4:19 PM


Rob EMM wrote:

Recount! Recount! The Iraqi Election is a fraud, perpetrated by the evil DickChenyBushObama Neo-facists alliance to steal the resources of Iraq! Hanging Camel Chads! Hanging Camel Chads! The southern Sunni Province of Floridistan was stolen by Allawi, the Obama stooge. Recount! The oil is worthless! Poly want a cracker! Poly want a cracker!

-- March 26, 2010 4:50 PM


Sara wrote:

Ridicule, threats.. whatever works to turn the public opinion your way.. it's how you play your little political "game."

===

Jean Schmidt on Foxnews Talks About Threats She's Received
Friday, March 26, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit

Jean Schmidt on Fox and Friends...Audio is played at 1:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4frhZXCtqKI&feature=player_embedded

Schmidt: "Last night before votes, the Republican women, about 7 of us had dinner together and every single one of us...got threatening voice mails"

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/jean-schmidt-on-foxnews-talks-about.html

Golly where could you have learned such tactics?

===

Alinsky trainer developed 1st Obama volunteers
Group modeled on Marxist icon teaches tactics of confrontation, intimidation
Posted: March 25, 2010
By Aaron Klein

The executive director of an activist organization modeled after Marxist community organizer Saul Alinsky and described as teaching tactics of direct action, confrontation and intimidation was part of the team that developed and delivered a group of volunteers for President Obama's 2008 campaign.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=131465

Alinsky.. hmm.. what was he into to win his "point"?

====

Saul Alinsky's interest in excrement and (bizarrely racial) flatulence.
Posted by Ann Althouse
Tuesday, March 23, 2010

I've been reading Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals," and I've run into some really weird things. I'd copy out text from the book, but to save time, I'll just cut and paste this material — which tracks the book — from an interview he did with Playboy here and here:

ALINSKY: The most effective way to [attack Chicago mayor Richard Daley was] to create a situation in which he would become a figure of nationwide ridicule.

Now, O'Hare Airport in Chicago, the busiest airport in the world, is Mayor Daley's pride and joy, both his personal toy and the visible symbol of his city's status and importance. If the least little thing went wrong at O'Hare and Daley heard about it, he was furious and would burn up the phone lines to his commissioners until the situation was corrected. So we knew that was the place to get at him. But how? Even if we massed huge numbers of pickets, they'd be virtually lost in the thousands of passengers swarming through O'Hare's terminals. So we devised a new tactic. Picture yourself for a moment on a typical jet flight. The stewardess has served you your drinks and lunch or dinner, and afterwards the odds are you'll feel like going to the john. But this is usually awkward because your seat and those of the people sitting next to you are blocked by trays, so you wait until they're removed. But by then the people closest to the lavatories have got up and the OCCUPIED signs are on. So you wait a few more minutes and, more often than not, by the time the johns are vacant, the FASTEN SEAT BELTS signs are on, so you decide to wait until landing and then use one of the terminal restrooms. You can see this process in action if you watch the passenger gate at any landing airplane. It looks like almost half the debarking passengers make a beeline for the lavatories.

Here's where we came in. Some of our people went out to the airport and made a comprehensive intelligence study of how many sit-down pay toilets and stand-up urinals there were in the whole O'Hare complex and how many men and women we'd need for the country's first "shit-in."... For the sit-down toilets, our people would just put in their dimes and prepare to wait it out; we arranged for them to bring box lunches and reading material along to help pass the time. What were desperate passengers going to do -- knock the cubicle door down and demand evidence of legitimate occupancy? This meant that the ladies' lavatories could be completely occupied; in the men's, we'd take care of the pay toilets and then have floating groups moving from one urinal to another, positioning themselves four or five deep and standing there for five minutes before being relieved by a co-conspirator, at which time they would pass on to another rest room. Once again, what's some poor sap at the end of the line going to say: "Hey, pal, you're taking too long to piss"?

Now, imagine for a second the catastrophic consequences of this tactic. Constipated and bladder-bloated passengers would mill about the corridors in anguish and desperation, longing for a place to relieve themselves. O'Hare would become a shambles! You can imagine the national and international ridicule and laughter the story would create. It would probably make the front page of the London Times. And who would be more mortified than Mayor Daley?....

PLAYBOY: How did you organize Rochester's black community?

ALINSKY: ... We had a wide range of demands, of which the key one was that Kodak recognize the representatives of the black community who were designated as such by the people....
[An] idea I had that almost came to fruition was directed at the Rochester Philharmonic, which was the establishment's -- and Kodak's -- cultural jewel. I suggested we pick a night when the music would be relatively quiet and buy 100 seats. The 100 blacks scheduled to attend the concert would then be treated to a preshow banquet in the community consisting of nothing but huge portions of baked beans. Can you imagine the inevitable consequences within the symphony hall? The concert would be over before the first movement -- another Freudian slip -- and Rochester would be immortalized as the site of the world's first fart-in.

PLAYBOY: Aren't such tactics a bit juvenile and frivolous?

ALINSKY: I'd call them absurd rather than juvenile. But isn't much of life kind of a theater of the absurd? As far as being frivolous is concerned, I say if a tactic works, it's not frivolous. Let's take a closer look at this particular tactic and see what purposes it serves -- apart from being fun. First of all, the fart-in would be completely outside the city fathers' experience. Demonstrations, confrontations and picketings they'd learned to cope with, but never in their wildest dreams could they envision a flatulent blitzkrieg on their sacred symphony orchestra. It would throw them into complete disarray. Second, the action would make a mockery of the law, because although you could be arrested for throwing a stink bomb, there's no law on the books against natural bodily functions....

(end quote)

A shit-in and a fart-in. I thought you should know.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/03/saul-alinskys-interest-in-excrement-and.html

A shit-in and a fart-in. I thought you should know.

Almost as good as your poetry.
Hey, if a tactic works, it's not frivolous, right?
Even if it can be called by others juvenile, frivolous, and absurd.
It's not like it's an important topic or anything, you know, serious.

Sara.

-- March 26, 2010 5:07 PM


Groucho Marx wrote:

Sara said: "A shit-in and a fart-in. I thought you should know"

What? What's that? Friday night at your house, for baked beans?

-- March 26, 2010 5:37 PM


Zeppo Marx wrote:

Sara, what are you doing reading Playboy? Or do you just read it "for the articles" like me?

-- March 26, 2010 5:40 PM


Sara wrote:

I presume, then, that you think me so crass as to not be a lady..
that you would presume my amusements to be so low?
Perhaps the inference is too far over your head.. for I certainly mean..
Is it perhaps, that you are no gentleman?

Mat 12:36 But I say to you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by your words shall you be justified, and by your words shall you be condemned.

-- March 27, 2010 12:01 AM


Sara wrote:

Quote from article below:

Look, some of us have a knack, a talent, a curse, call it what you will, of sensing huge changes around us well before they actually occur.

Whether or not this (below) is the pivot point or if it's the one on illegal/felons voting, or any other one, the above remains true.
This article's speculation, however, is interesting.. and could fit, so I will post it.
Practically speaking, the spark for the fire is not really important.
Many of us see the conditions are set for a wildfire about to go.
Further quote:

at this very moment that tidal wave of anger and outrage is damed up, increasing in power and intensity, waiting, just waiting, for an incident that will knock the chocks from the dam wall holding back the cascade.

The pathway we are on has been set... the conditions met..
We merely await the spark of ignition in order for it to go.
I would prefer a peaceful way.. elections, the courts..
but that isn't in the cards right now.
He's right when he says, ...my senses tell me it is too late to avoid...
How could it happen? How could such a thing arise?
Again, this states they WANT an incident, an emergency, to happen, for their own nefarious purposes.
As Beck says, they keep provoking or poking and poking.. "rubbing our noses in it" (their victory) as well.
It could happen a number of ways..
And this article is worth noting as an interesting speculation as to what could be the goal:

===

Will Obama Suspend the Mid Term Election?
Posted in: Guest Commentary
By J. D. Longstreet
Tuesday, March 23, 2010

More and more politics-watchers are coming around to the conclusion that the scheduled Mid-Term Election in November of 2010 will be a political bloodbath for the Democratic Party. It is beginning to appear as if the democrats may, indeed, lose control of BOTH houses of the Congress. As a conservative I can only hope and pray they do.

But – the democrats lust for power is so great and their zeal for socialism so intense, that I cannot see them allowing their hold on power to be placed in jeopardy by, of all things, an election where the voice of the people is actually heard.

So, the question must be asked: Will Obama and the socialist/democrats in our government suspend, postpone, or “call-off” the Mid Term Election scheduled for this coming November?

First we must remember that Obama promised during the presidential campaign to bring “Fundamental Change” to the United States. I do not believe a person alive in America today could doubt his sincerity when he said that. Plus, the evidence of that fundamental change is right before our eyes, and in our wallets. In less than eighteen months the Obama Regime has managed to take America from a constitutional republic to a socialist republic. That accomplishment alone should give you reason enough to suspect that when their power is threatened they will use the full force of the Central Government to ruthlessly crush any and all who they perceive as a threat. At this moment in history, a threat is anyone, any American, who does not agree with them.

What the Obama Regime needs is a national crisis of some kind, a national emergency, in order to suspend the election in November. There is much talk about the Obama Regime declaring marital law as the result of a national emergency. That would take care of the election.

Next question: Who decides what a national emergency is? You’ve got it -- the Obama Regime!

Ok. So now I am worried about a natural disaster such as a major hurricane striking the Eastern Seaboard this summer or this fall. As all of us who live in Hurricane Alley will attest, we know from experience that we are due a major strike.

All right, already! I KNOW this all sounds paranoid as the dickens! But understand this: A little paranoia in the face of danger can save your butt! Lord knows -- we are starring danger in the face every day the Obama Regime enjoys in power.

Will there actually be a Mid Term Election this year? I honesty wish I could answer affirmatively, but I fear the raw power on which the democrats are drunk may decide that for us. Understand this: there is nothing as dangerous to freedom in the US as a Progressive (Socialist) Democratic Party inebriated on raw power.

I can say this: The American people are a patient people. We will put up with a lot of nonsense from our government – for a while. But we draw the line when that government ignores the constitution, as the Obama Regime and the Democrats in the Congress have done. There is a seething rage in America today. It has cut to the quick many a patriotic American’s soul. There is a tidal wave of unrequited anger, roiled up and posed, ready to fling itself at a government it sees as a threat to America’s freedom and liberty. Woe be unto him who is caught in the deluge.

Look, some of us have a knack, a talent, a curse, call it what you will, of sensing huge changes around us well before they actually occur.

During the past few months I have sensed a change in the American atmosphere. Where there was anger, there is now rage. Believe me, there is a HUGE difference between anger and rage. Both are great motivators. but motivation by anger can be considered and well thought out. On the other hand, motivation by rage (or outrage) is often not well considered and thought out. It is more akin to lashing out, and is, therefore, to be avoided when it is possible.

But, my senses tell me it is too late to avoid the “lashing out” Americans are about to unleash.

Why do I even bring this up? I bring this up because -- at this very moment that tidal wave of anger and outrage is damed up, increasing in power and intensity, waiting, just waiting, for an incident that will knock the chocks from the dam wall holding back the cascade. Postponing, or suspending, the Mid-Term Election, currently scheduled for this coming November, would be the spark that ignites a firestorm that will consume all in its path.

But those in our nations legislature, intoxicated on their acquisition of more and more raw power, haven’t seemed to notice the shadow of liberty loving Americans looming over them as they celebrate.

Elections are a sort of safety valve in America. Without a safety valve to release unwanted pressure a boiler would soon explode. This coming Mid Term Election, in November, is one of the most important safety valves ever to exist. Shut it, remove it, or disable it, and believe me, the boiler will explode with unimaginable force.

If America was one huge computer, we could simply “reboot.” Of course we cannot do that – but many are saying we CAN “reset.” That is the aim of Americans in the coming Mid Term Election.

The federal government MUST be brought back under the control of the citizens and limited to only that power, and those particular powers, granted by the US Constitution. If Americans can accomplish that -- then most everything else can readily be taken care of -- and a return to constitutional republicanism in America restored.

I don’t even want to think about what will happen if we are unsuccessful in saving and restoring America at the ballot box in November. It MUST happen if America is to survive.

http://www.michnews.com/Guest_Commentary/jdl032310.shtml

-- March 27, 2010 12:10 AM


Groucho wrote:

Sara said: "I presume, then, that you think me so crass as to not be a lady..
that you would presume my amusements to be so low?
Perhaps the inference is too far over your head.. for I certainly mean..
Is it perhaps, that you are no gentleman?"

Sara, I know and understand perfectly well your charging routine, of your hastiludes, with your palfrey, Slanderous Inferences, leading the charge, followed quickly by your Virgin Lady on a High Horse Routine, then bringing up the rear, your mount, the reliable war-horse, the coldblood destrier, Malicious Religious Threats, with you still riding side saddle, naturally, as befits a lady.....I think I read about it in a book about warfare in the Middle Ages once,..... I don't know if your amusements are so low, I just know it was you who brought up Playboy and scatology, not I. A "lady" would not broach those subjects, in an attempted cheap shot, but a frost-bound harridan might.

I suggest you re-read those Bible verses, with a good mirror handy.

-- March 27, 2010 1:46 AM


Sara wrote:

Knowing your enemy and where his propensities lean to.. is not slander.
Slander is a "false, and defamatory statement" defamatory I will give you, but not false.
The point is to explain the enemy, whether it is pleasant or not.. whether it brings him fame or defames him.
If it "defames" a terrorist to explain what they do or not, the public is informed.
No one is unaware terrorists behead their enemies, though that is indelicate as a subject also.
It is necessary to know your enemy to defeat him.
In the same way as knowing terrorists, knowing this internal enemy and his tactics (Alinsky).. from Ann Althouse's post (note, she wrote it, url given, I quoted HER post, it was not my own, nor did I read Playboy to find the references, but I read HER website)

Saul Alinsky's interest in excrement and (bizarrely racial) flatulence.
Posted by Ann Althouse

From Alinsky to you.. who walks lock step with the man's tactics of ridicule and intimidation and who thinks it a mere "threat" to say watch your words, there is a Judge you will answer to.. that is not slander. It is exposing the truth to the light of day. "A lady would not broach those subjects" - Christianity has had to walk a line of being for peace and making war to protect peace. It is a Christian nation who has held the military balance of power in current history. It means confronting a lot of subjects that are indelicate, but does not mean that the Bride of Christ is thereby stained. It is only those who hold the truth IN unrighteousness, who need fear.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Hastiludes, by the way, is not a word (I looked it up) so I don't know what you mean by it, though palfrey is merely a woman astride a horse. Being astride a horse is no evil, as the armies of God are pictured so at Christ's return, Rev 19:14 "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." Your cheap shot about the Middle Ages, trying to paint me as someone backward and out of touch with the times, while simultaneously accusing me of talking too much about current times' subjects, only shows the duplicity of your rhetoric.

As for your comment, "re-read those Bible verses, with a good mirror handy" - I am well aware I will be judged at His imparital throne and live in the light of it. Are you really aware of it, or is it just a talking point to you.. a way of getting in your own cheap shots and "Malicious Religious Threats" - it seems to me that is how you use it. I, on the other hand, am deeply religious and would not so trifle with the Word of God, because I believe God judges the thoughts and INTENTS of our hearts.

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD ponders the hearts.

And God knows my intent toward you was warning, not "malicious religious threats".. a heart of love, not malice, I assure you.

Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 10:51 AM


Groucho wrote:

Sara said: "Hastiludes, by the way, is not a word (I looked it up) so I don't know what you mean by it"....It is in fact a word, A hastilude is "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Hastilude is a generic term used in the Middle Ages to refer to many kinds of martial games. The word comes from the Latin hastiludium, literally 'lance game'. By the fourteenth century, the term usually excluded tournaments and was used to describe the other games collectively; this seems to have coincided with the increasing preference for ritualistic and individualistic games over the traditional mêlée style.[1]

Today, the most well-known of the hastiludes are the tournament, or tourney, and the joust, but over the medieval period a number of other games and sports developed, which altered in popularity and rules from area to area, and from period to period. Distinction was made between the different types by contemporaries in their description, laws, prohibitions and customs."

So what I meant by it is you yourself take written runs at people, as in an aggressive person on a horse, charging an opponent, with a lance, during a martial game, consisting largely of individualistic, ritualistic combat, that sharpens opponents, who understand the rules of the game, and do not actually mortally injure an opponent, who is on the same larger side, and whom they might meet in a tavern the next day..... It's called a metaphor, Sara.

I mean you no harm Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 11:54 AM


Sara wrote:

ALL debate requires taking a metaphorical "shot" at someone.
Both sides "joust".. your side included.
But I truly appreciate and thank you for your comment about no harm intended. :)
Same here on my side.
It is a lively debate.. I'm sorry it will come to blows for the nation.
I truly believe it will go there.
And that only happens when there isn't someone like you on the other side..
to say "I mean you no harm."
Perhaps because it cannot be truthfully said..
For one side does appear to offer harm to the Republic, to the Constitution..
and to the entire foundation of the American way of life, in the national "debate."

Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 12:37 PM


Sara wrote:

Iraq coalition talks 'open to all' - Iyad Allawi
Saturday, 27 March 2010

The leader of the secular alliance that narrowly won Iraq's parliamentary election has offered to work with all parties to form a coalition government.

Iyad Allawi said his Iraqiya bloc would start by talking with the rival State of Law alliance of Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, which it beat by two seats.

Mr Maliki has refused to accept the result and said he would challenge the count through the courts.

Both the UN and US envoys to Iraq have said the 7 March poll was credible.

According to final results published by Iraq's Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC), Mr Allawi's secular Iraqiya bloc won 91 of the Council of Representative's 325 seats, 72 short of a majority.

Mr Maliki's State of Law came second with 89 seats, followed by the Iraqi National Alliance (INA) on 70, and the Kurdistan Alliance with 43.

Iraqiya's narrow victory means Mr Allawi, a Shia, will be given the first opportunity to form a coalition government.

If he fails to do so within 30 days, Iraq's president will ask the leader of another bloc.

On Saturday, the former prime minister said he had already appointed Deputy Prime Minister Rafi al-Issawi, a Sunni member of his alliance, to begin negotiations with other parties in the hope of forming a government "as quickly as possible".

"The Iraqi people have blessed the Iraqiya bloc by choosing it," he told a news conference. "We are open to all powers starting with the State of Law bloc of brother Prime Minister Nouri Maliki."

"Iraq does not belong to anyone or any party, but it belongs to all Iraqis," he added.

Mr Allawi said he was "working for a government that can make decisions and return Iraq back to its place in the Arab and Islamic world".

He has until Monday to register any complaints with electoral officials.

Mr Maliki is reportedly also negotiating a merger with the INA, which includes followers of the radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, so he can claim to lead the biggest bloc in parliament. The groups had been part of the governing United Iraqi Alliance (UIA) before the election, but split acrimoniously.

Iraq's Supreme Court issued an opinion of Thursday specifying that a clause in the constitution referring to the "largest Council of Representatives bloc" could include an alliance formed after an election.

The opinion, published in response to a query submitted by Mr Maliki, might allow State of Law and the INA to claim the right to form a government first. Together, they would hold 159 seats, four short of a majority.

Election officials have refused calls for a recount, and international observers have described the election as fair and credible.

"It is the UN's considered opinion that these elections have been credible and we congratulate the people of Iraq with this success," the top UN official in Iraq, Ad Melkert, told reporters on Friday.

The sentiment was echoed by US Ambassador Christopher Hill and the top US commander, Gen Ray Odierno, who praised the "historic electoral process" and said they backed the conclusions of observers that there had been no evidence of widespread or serious fraud.

A credible election was seen as crucial in helping to stabilise Iraq before the planned withdrawal of US combat troops by the end of August.

ANALYSIS
Magdi Abdelhadi, BBC Arab affairs analyst

Iyad Allawi has clearly surprised many with such a forceful comeback. Iraqiya did not win by a big margin, but given the complex and fragmented nature of Iraqi politics, its small victory is still a considerable achievement - if it is not overturned by the courts as his rivals want.

Much will now depend on how he navigates through many of the domestic and regional minefields ahead. The words he spoke struck all the right notes - inclusive and conciliatory towards his enemies both at home and abroad.

Knowing that his comeback will not be welcome in Iran, Mr Allawi must have had them in mind when he said stability in the Middle East was the responsibility of all its peoples, and not just the Americans. The US cannot stay here for ever to protect us, he warned.

If the transfer of power is completed peacefully, and Mr Allawi manages to reconcile the many competing interests, then some will conclude that Iraq's fledgling democracy appears to be coming of age.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8590630.stm

If the transfer of power is completed peacefully, and Mr Allawi manages to reconcile the many competing interests, then some will conclude that Iraq's fledgling democracy appears to be coming of age.

It would also reflect favorably on the value of their currency, the Dinar.
That would strengthen their currency value - soon to be determined on the forex - and allow even more prosperity and growth for the Iraqi people. There is a lot of good potential here, if people keep a clear head and don't get bogged down in war. This can really be a good thing for Iraq and all the Iraqi people.. may the Lord grant a peaceful transition of power and an amenable reconciliation of the competing interests with little violence under Allawi's leadership, in Jesus Name.

Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 1:02 PM


Sara wrote:

Struan Stevenson: Iraq is the winner of elections
Saturday, 27 March 2010

NCRI – In a press release today, the President of the European Parliament delegation for relations with Iraq, Mr. Struan Stevenson welcomed the Iraqi people’s choice for a secular state and described the election result as a major defeat for the Iranian regime. His statement follows:

PRESS RELEASE
For Immediate Release 27 March 2010

IRAQI ELECTIONS UPDATE
No. 6

IRAQ IS THE WINNER

Every election has a winner and a loser. In this election, Iraq and the Iraqi people are the winners. Iran and its fascist regime are the losers.

This was the view expressed today by Struan Stevenson, MEP, and the President of the European Parliament’s Delegation for Relations with Iraq.

Speaking after the election results were announced he said:

“The narrow victory for Dr Ayad Allawi and his non-sectarian, nationalist party is a victory for democracy in the face of violence, intimidation, murder and widespread fraud. Clumsy and aggressive attempts to ban secularist candidates, coupled with massive efforts at vote rigging, were undoubtedly planned and motivated by Tehran, but backfired in a spectacular fashion, driving millions of Sunnis and Shiites alike to vote for peace, security and an end to Iranian meddling.

“I congratulate the brave Iraqi people who turned out in their millions to exercise their democratic rights, even as bombs exploded around them, killing 46 and injuring 140 on polling day alone. This election result may signal a new dawn for Iraq after the years of darkness.

“I hope that through the rapid formation of a nationalist and non-sectarian government, peace, stability and economic prosperity will return to Iraq. The Iraqi people deserve nothing less.”

Struan Stevenson, MEP
President, Delegation for relations with Iraq
The European Parliament
Rue Wiertz, B-1047, Brussels.

http://ncr-iran.org/content/view/7976/1/

This election result may signal a new dawn for Iraq after the years of darkness..

Let's hope so.
Certainly there has been dark times and stagnation for the Iraqi people.. and the Dinar.
We hope that will change and move them forward in a hope filled direction containing prosperity.

Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 2:32 PM


Sara wrote:

I noted that Struan Stevenson said attempts to hijack the vote, "backfired in a spectacular fashion, driving millions of Sunnis and Shiites alike to vote for peace, security and an end to Iranian meddling." Their votes were heard and this statement was worth posting:

===

The UN monitors in Iraq have declared the elections free of fraud and insisted a number of manual recounts to test the results have already been carried out.

"All results of almost 50,000 voting stations have been checked at least 8 times," Ad Melkart of the United Nations said. "On the basis of specific complaints submitted by different entities, specific audits have been held in places with indications of irregularities. Ballot boxes that could not stand the test have not been included in the count. We have not found evidence of systematic failure or fraud of widespread nature. The UN calls on all candidates and entities to accept the results."

http://story.africaleader.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/b8de8e630faf3631/id/616626/cs/1/

When the people rose up in sufficient numbers, their voices could not be drowned out and their choice prevailed.
If only the American people had been allowed to vote directly on Healthcare..

Sara.

-- March 27, 2010 2:57 PM


Sara wrote:

Maliki's forces move against winning Sunni candidates
Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2010
By Hannah Allam and Mohammed al Dulaimy | McClatchy Newspapers

BAGHDAD — At least four Sunni Muslim candidates who appear to have won parliamentary seats on the winning ticket of secular leader Ayad Allawi have become targets of investigation by security forces reporting to the narrowly defeated Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, according to interviews Saturday with relatives, Iraqi security forces and the U.S. military.

All four candidates ran in Diyala province, a restive mainly Sunni area north of Baghdad. One candidate who won more than 28,000 votes is being held incommunicado in a Baghdad jail, two other winners are on the run and the whereabouts of the fourth, a woman, are unknown.

Maliki alluded to the cases in his televised refusal Friday to accept a loss in the March 7 parliamentary elections, saying of unnamed rival candidates: "What would happen if some of them are in prison now on terror accusations and they participated in the elections and might win?"

Maliki's critics say the Shiite prime minister is using state security forces and the courts to remove political rivals - especially prominent Sunnis - in a last-ditch effort to disqualify candidates from Allawi's Iraqiya coalition, which holds only a two-seat lead ahead of Maliki's State of Law bloc.

The government's action, coupled with appeals by Maliki's bloc for the votes to be thrown out in these cases, appeared to be a long shot maneuver to strip Allawi of his margin of victory. In the end, Iraq's high court will have to settle this and other disputes and certify the final results, a process that could take another two weeks

One of the fugitive candidates said security forces had staged two raids on his home this week, including one Saturday morning. "I'm confused as to how I can make it to parliament to be sworn in when I can't even go home," said Raad Dahlaki, the chairman of the Baqouba City Council. McClatchy reached him by telephone at an undisclosed location.

"Will I be stripped of my right to fill the seat I won through hard work? Will I be able to keep the promises I made to people, to improve their lives? I have no clue why there are all these attempts to arrest me," he said.

The prime minister's office did not respond to repeated requests for comment. A senior Iraqi security official in Diyala confirmed investigations against the four, but did not provide any details of possible evidence against them.

"These warrants have nothing to do with elections. They were issued even before the elections," the security official said.

Harbi's case is the most talked-about in Diyala because of his stature in the province, where he's served in several city and provincial positions since 2004. Al Qaida in Iraq has targeted him and his family, and last month Iraqi security forces arrested him.

The 41-year-old farmer with two wives and seven children left behind the family citrus orchards to enter politics, said his brother, Ammar Abdullah, 31.

It was a risky move for a Sunni in Diyala, for which his extended family paid dearly. The province is one of the last bastions for Sunni extremists who have been pushed out of Baghdad and areas to the west, and nearly two dozen of his relatives who joined him as bodyguards were killed in well-documented bombings and assassinations in 2007 and 2008.

These were some of the worst years for attacks by al Qaida in Iraq, the mostly homegrown extremist group that targets fellow Sunnis they deem "collaborators" for joining the political process supported by the U.S. government.

In September, Harbi's 9-year-old son Qutaiba was kidnapped and killed, his body dumped in a local stream, said Abdullah, who accompanied his brother to the morgue to identify the boy. U.S. forces confirmed the incident, and also said they knew of a bomb attack on Harbi's home.

"Even after that, we just intensified security and tried to live with these facts," Abdullah said. "We didn't move our families until the raid by Iraqi forces."

Iraqi forces detained Harbi in a Feb.7 raid on his house in the city of Muqdadiya, Abdullah said. Initially held on suspicion of involvement with a homicide, Harbi retained an attorney and was ordered released by a judge for lack of evidence, Abdullah said.

In the few days it took before his release was processed, a special Iraqi counterterrorism force that's said to answer directly to Maliki arrived from Baghdad, took Harbi into custody and has held him without access to an attorney or visitors ever since, his brother and the Diyala security official said. Abdullah said he's called several security offices in hopes of finding out where his brother is being held and what charges he faces, but hasn't received an answer.

"When they took him to Baghdad, all access to him was cut," Abdullah said. "No one has seen him, spoken to him or even heard his voice."

McClatchy also tried to pin down charges against Harbi, but to no avail. U.S. forces, who worked closely with Harbi during his stint as the mayor of Muqdadiya and in his long campaign against Sunni insurgents, said they received a different story from Iraqi forces.

"He is currently arrested and is likely held in Baghdad. He was arrested for stealing money from government projects. Any speculation beyond that as to why this happened would be for the (government of Iraq)," said Maj. Lee Peters, spokesman for the U.S. military in northern Iraq.

Harbi's family and friends were gathered around a TV set Friday in hopes of hearing his name announced as part of Allawi's winning coalition, a victory made bittersweet because of his detention. Abdullah said he's not even sure his brother knows he's the second highest vote-getter in the entire province, with 28,273 votes, according to figures released by Iraq's election commission.

Abdullah said the group's excitement turned to fear when they heard Maliki mention the case in a roundabout way. To him, it signaled that his brother might never be freed to take the seat he won in parliament. He said he's never heard of any corruption charges or bombing plots and is convinced the arrest is just another attempt to keep Harbi from giving his constituents a voice in government.

"He who chooses the path of politics, especially in these circumstances, knows he will pay a price," Abdullah said. "He lost the dearest thing to him, his son, and the image is still in my mind of him standing over his son's body and saying, 'They're doing these things to make me stop. I will never stop.'"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/27/91209/malikis-forces-detain-investigate.html

-- March 28, 2010 2:03 PM


BritishKnite wrote:

Roger,

I found your post about the IQD being let loose on the Forex of great interest. I followed your link, and found this one from the main page on Iraq. It talks about redenominating the currency. The article was written back in February 13th 2010:

http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=44269&t=1&c=17&cg=2&mset=

What do you think?

BritishKnite.

-- March 28, 2010 6:23 PM


Sara wrote:

Let's talk money:

"It's not only the federal government that is heading toward insolvency... I see train wrecks ahead-- "

===

Bond Markets Reflect the True Cost of Obamacare
March 25, 2010
By Michael Barone

Not many people noticed amid the Democrats' struggle to jam their health care bill through the House, but in recent weeks U.S. Treasury bonds have lost their status as the world's safest investment.

The numbers are pretty clear. In February, Bloomberg News reports, Berkshire Hathaway sold two-year bonds with an interest rate lower than that on two-year Treasuries. A company run by a 79-year-old investor is a better credit risk, the markets are telling us, than the U.S. government.

Buffett's firm isn't the only one. Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson and Lowe's have been borrowing money at cheaper rates than Uncle Sam.

Democrats wary of voting for the health care bill may have been soothed by the Congressional Budget Office's report that it would reduce federal deficits over the next 10 years. But bond buyers know that the Democrats gamed the CBO system to get a good score.

The realities, as former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin pointed out in The New York Times, are different. The real cost is disguised by the fact that the bill includes 10 years of revenue but only six years of spending. It includes $70 billion in premiums for long-term care that will have to be paid out later. It excludes $114 billion in discretionary spending needed to run the program. It includes nearly half a trillion dollars in unrealistic Medicare savings.

Holtz-Eakins's bottom line: The bill will not lower deficits, but will raise them by $562 billion over 10 years. Treasury will have to borrow that money -- and probably pay much higher interest than it's paying now.

Moreover, once the bill is fully in effect, the Cato Institute's Alan Reynolds points out, its expenses are likely to grow at least 7 percent a year -- significantly faster than revenues. At that rate, spending doubles every 10 years.

No wonder that Moody's declared last week that the Treasury is "substantially" closer to losing its AAA bond rating.

It's not only the federal government that is heading toward insolvency. State governments will have to spend more under the health care bill -- $735 million in Tennessee alone, according to Democratic Gov. Phil Bredesen.

And state governments are already facing a huge problem called pensions. The Pew Charitable Trusts estimates that state government pensions are underfunded by $450 billion. My American Enterprise Institute colleague Andrew Biggs argues in The Wall Street Journal that the real figure is over $3 trillion.

The reason: State governments set aside cash to invest in pensions, but they typically assume that their investments will rise 8 percent a year indefinitely. They haven't been getting such high returns and are not likely to do so in the future. But they are under legal obligations, which courts won't allow them to escape, to pay the pensions. Retirees get paid off before bondholders, which means that states are going to have to pay more interest when they borrow.

Back in the 1990s, Clinton adviser James Carville said that if he was reincarnated he would like to come back as the bond market -- "because you can intimidate everybody." Governments, like all organizations, need to borrow routinely. But investors won't lend unless they think they will be paid back. And they will demand higher interest rates as their loans become riskier.

On Sunday, 219 House Democrats, soothed by their leaders' gaming of the CBO scoring process, voted in reckless disregard of what the bond market has been telling them. Some may share Speaker Nancy Pelosi's optimism that the government's looming fiscal disaster can be avoided by imposing a value-added tax -- in effect, a national sales tax.

But, as we know from the experience of high-tax Western Europe and relatively low-tax America over the last three decades, higher taxes tend to retard economic growth. Lower economic growth means less revenue for government than in CBO projections. Less revenue means more borrowing -- and at some point lenders are going to call a halt.

Barack Obama's project of transforming the United States into something like Western Europe is, according to the CBO, raising the national debt burden on the economy to World War II levels. I see train wrecks ahead -- as the bond market forces huge spending cuts or tax increases first on states and then on the federal government. It will make what happened in the House Sunday look pretty.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/03/25/bond_markets_reflect_the_true_cost_of_obamacare_104913.html

-- March 29, 2010 1:33 AM


Sara wrote:

When the people are well informed, they are not easily deceived and bounce back quickly:

===

Post-Obamacare Collapse: Obama 46% Approval Matches All-Time Low in Gallup
After last week's historic passage of the Obamacare package, President Obama approval today matches the all-time low of his Presidency: 46%

In another crushing blow to the “conventional wisdom” of the establishment media that because “Americans love winners” President Barack Obama would receive a large, sustained bounce in approval after last week’s passage of Obamacare, today Gallup released its daily approval numbers showing Obama at only 46% approval, with 46% disapproving. Obama’s 46% approval in Gallup represents a matching of Obama’s all-time low in approval. While Obama did peak at 51% mid-week after the passage of Obamacare, he has now lost that entire bounce and is at the low of his Presidency, which completely repudiates the “conventional wisdom” in the establishment media.

Further, Rasmussen’s numbers this morning confirm this dissipation of any alleged “bounce” from the passage of Obamacare, with Rasmussen finding Obama’s approval numbers now at the same level as before the passage of Obamacare:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 28% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -16 (see trends).

The President enjoyed a modest bounce in the polls following the passage of health care legislation last week. However, his Approval Index rating is now back to where it was last Sunday, just before the House voted in favor of his health care plan. All the bouncing of the past week has come among Democrats. There has been virtually no change in the opinions of Republicans and unaffiliated voters.

==

White House spokesman is sure to face questions about this post-Obamacare collapse in the President’s approval ratings, as Gibbs himself last week tweeted out the Gallup one-day poll on Obamacare as a truthful and reliable indicator of the public’s views.

This continued collapse in Obama’s approval, with an all-time low of 46% in Gallup and a near all-time high in Rasmussen of 44% strong disapproval today, demonstrates the failure of the Democratic strategy to smear the tea party as racist extremists as well. Indeed, ABC/WaPo’s numbers this morning show the tea party is favorably viewed by the American public, despite this smear campaign by the Democrats and the establishment media. Numbers such as these are sure to encourage the Republicans to continue to attack the Obamacare package as a historic mistake and ensure that the cry of “replace and repeal” is heard in every congressional race across the nation in the leadup to the November 2010 elections.

http://centristnetblog.com/daily-news/post-obamacare-collapse-obama-approval-matches-all-time-low-in-gallup/

===================

Quotes:

he has now lost that entire bounce and is at the low of his Presidency, which completely repudiates the “conventional wisdom” in the establishment media.

This continued collapse in Obama’s approval, with an all-time low of 46% in Gallup and a near all-time high in Rasmussen of 44% strong disapproval today, demonstrates the failure of the Democratic strategy to smear the tea party as racist extremists as well.

the tea party is favorably viewed by the American public, despite this smear campaign by the Democrats and the establishment media.

So.. what to do, politically? Running toward an election in which they will be totally slaughtered.. they decide to try and tar the tea partiers with the brush of the fringe groups they have nothing to do with, hoping to gain some political ground. What a cheap shot! That this is not really a concern about US security, let it be noted that if they were after REAL domestic terrorists, they would not go after those they know won't shoot back at them, but they would instead go after the guys with twelve foot walls of barbed wire and AK47s at the ready who are vowing to take over the US by force.. but those guys are the ones this religious militia were upset with, and rightfully so. No outrage at the Islamic terrorists who are training and vowing to behead people to take over the country, but only an attack on those who have theological views (remember when the US had "freedom of religion"??) which run to making them fearful of the "end times" ideology within Christianity, which causes them to lawfully strengthen their resolve in their second amendment right. How pathetic! You have to wonder if the US populace is as dumb as they think they are and whether they will they fall for this blatant political tactic, or not. Maliki isn't the only one resorting to underhanded tactics to try and keep a hold on power:

===

FBI Conducts Raids on Militia Groups In MI, OH and IN; At Least 7 Arrested for threatening Muslims
from the AP via gatewaypundit:
FBI Conducts Raids on Militia Groups In MI, OH & IN; At Least 7 Arrested
Sunday, March 28, 2010
Jim Hoft

The Obama FBI conducted weekend raids on militia groups in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. Three arrests were made.
The AP reported:

The FBI says agents have conducted weekend raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio, and at least three people have been arrested.

Federal warrants are sealed, but FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said Sunday there has been “law enforcement activity” in southwest Michigan. She wouldn’t say whether they were tied to the raids in the other states.

FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland says agents arrested two people Saturday in Ohio. A third arrest was made in Illinois on Sunday, a day after raids in Indiana.

Michael Lackomar, spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, says a member of his group was called by members of a religious militia Saturday who claimed their property was being raided. Lackomar says the SMVM member declined to help and is cooperating with the FBI.

===

The Jawa Report has more on the raids.

More… FOX News is reporting it as a pipe bomb plot:

Seven people have been arrested for allegedly selling pipe bombs in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, Fox News has learned.

Comments :

1) ahem

Boy, that’s awfully interesting, isn’t it? The only question remaining is 1) how fast these folks will be falsely associated with the Tea Party movement and 2) how draconian and totalitarian the form of suppression of all free speech will be.

2) Not Intimidated

2) how draconian and totalitarian the form of suppression of all free speech will be.

This isn’t Venezuela or Iran. No matter what the government tries, Americans won’t submit.

The demonstrations of the past few days are proving that, as are the polls showing Obama back underwater.

3) Opaobie

Scores of Muslim “training camps” inside the USA are known to the FBI, and they do actual shooting and other violent acts in their training. They are not even visited by local law enforcement, let alone raided. Time to make Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio head of Homeland Security AND the FBI.

4) ebayer

It wasn’t just the FBI involved in those raids against Hutaree,The Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force were also involved in the raids.

And what justified this large scale raid?
“…the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations.”

So was this “threat of violence” going to be used in response to an organized attack against their community and so be used in self defense?
And the FBI decided to make an example of them to the rest of the country?

I guess the Muslim community can feel safer tonight knowing they’re protected by our country’s top law agencies.

The rest of us just have to fend for ourselves.

5) ebayer

The FBI,Dept.Of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force weren’t so worried about protecting his fellow soldiers from Major Malik Nadal Hasan,were they?

47 people shot and thirteen people killed.

6) Tom

They deserve to get what they get, but you could have done this anytime any year…any day. This is manipulation pure and simple. And I’m not being a crazy tea bagger bla blahh blahhhhh

7) olm

I would love more info on this one.

A couple things are curious to me. The first being that this group is some type of cult preparing to battle the anti Christ and that the other militias somewhat disowned them. The second is that they made threats against Muslims. Gosh, those poor defenseless Muslims are lucky that the fbi and Homeland Security are looking out for them.

8) Galt

Pipebombs? Maybe they were burnishing their advanced degrees in education, angling for a tenured seat at a Chicago university.

I mean, there is an established career path that tolerates pipebombs. We may have thought it unwise, but the fat-cats now in power bent over backwards to say pipebombs were no big deal. You could mess with pipebombs and just be an upstanding neighborhood guy. A patriot, even (who “waves” the flag on the ground… underfoot).

9) Rob Crawford

“Pipebombs? Maybe they were burnishing their advanced degrees in education, angling for a tenured seat at a Chicago university.”

Remember the backpack full of pipe bombs that mysteriously appeared at an ANSWER march? Or the bomb plot against the 2008 RNC?

Weird how much more attention this has gotten than those.

10) avery

The Boy Scout troop may be next.

11) Palinfan

Maybe when two of them get out of prison, they can have coffee and cakes in their livingroom and launch the career of the next president. Sound familiar?

12) Mrgoodwench

So these people were like the Weather Underground ?
Guess they’ll become professors in a few years !

13) Terrye

It is interesting how militia people always seem to get arrested and rounded up when Democrats are in the White House. Hopefully, we won’t have dozens of people killed in a compound somewhere like there was at Waco.

14) AzSlapshot

Scores of Muslim “training camps” inside the USA are known to the FBI, and they do actual shooting and other violent acts in their training. They are not even visited by local law enforcement, let alone raided. Time to make Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio head of Homeland Security AND the FBI.

You got that right, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is one of the only law enforcement officials in the US that just enforces the law. He would be much better than J No.

15) retire05

Does it come as any surprise that this is happening so quickly after the Southern Poverty Law Center’s recent report on radical groups in the U.S.?

And what was missing from the SPLC’r report? Why the Islamic compounds like Islamberg in New York and one huge one is the piney woods of Mississippi. Nary a word on those compounds where even police are not allowed, they have 12′ wire fences patrolled by armed guards with AK47s, and even undertakers are not allowed.

16) AnnS

Opaobie

First thing I thought of; now they need to go after the jihad training camps in the US. They have been there and allowed to operate since 2006 or so,. The DoJ has always known about this. Wonder how many trained recruits in and out of the camps and infiltrated back into society? Where are they?

17) Opaobie

If threatening violence against Muslim organizations is the “crime”, when do they start arresting the entire U.S. Military? Isn’t that the mission they were given by the GOVERNMENT?

18) bill-tb

Bill Ayers bomb factory?

19) Greg

This is just the Justice Department addressing the ‘threat’ of those clinging to their guns an bibles.

All the while letting the real threat of Islamic camps go free. Wouldn’t want to offend anyone by preventing them from performing their human sacrifices (Suicide bombers and their victims) to their pathetic little god after all…

20) Billy Ray in Cowtown

Opaobie said it for me. All those muslim camps training for the destruction of the United States and our muslim “president” goes after what he calls dangerous militia. How soon before we see Obama Brown Shirts?

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/obama-fbi-conduct-raids-on-militia-groups-in-mi-oh-in/

-- March 29, 2010 9:55 AM


Sara wrote:

Of course, being distracted might take your mind off things.. like fiscal reality, is the hope.

===

Thanks Barack… Poor Demand For US Treasury Bills After Dems Pass Obamacare
Sunday, March 28, 2010
Jim Hoft

The Obama disaster continues…
The passage of Obama’s nationalized health care bill freaked out investors last week causing a lower demand for US treasury bills.
The Telegraph reported, via Yid With Lid:

The yield on 10-year Treasuries – the benchmark price of global capital – surged 30 basis points in just two days last week to over 3.9pc, the highest level since the Lehman crisis. Alan Greenspan, ex-head of the US Federal Reserve, said the abrupt move may be “the canary in the coal mine”, a warning to Washington that it can no longer borrow with impunity. He said there is a “huge overhang of federal debt, which we have never seen before”.

David Rosenberg at Gluskin Sheff said Treasury yields have ratcheted up 90 basis points since December in a “destabilising fashion”, for the wrong reasons. Growth has not been strong enough to revive fears of inflation. Commodity prices peaked in January and US home sales have fallen for the last three months, pointing to a double-dip in the housing market.

Spain’s downward spiral spooks bond investors Mr Rosenberg said the yield spike recalls the move in the spring of 2007 just as the credit system started to unravel. “The question is how the equity market is going to handle this back-up in rates,” he said.

The trigger for last week’s sell-off was poor demand at Treasury auctions, linked to the passage of the Obama health care reform. Critics say it will add $1 trillion (£670bn) to America’s debt over the next decade, a claim disputed fiercely by Democrats.

Comments:

1) Opus #6

re: [a claim disputed fiercely by Democrats]

Yes, I dispute it fiercely, too. There is SO much hidden spending in this program, it will be MUCH HIGHER than 1 trillion.

2) Reaganite Republican

Yeah, investors are stubbornly reality-based… it’s economic Darwinism, the hopenchangey types tend to be wiped-out quick, lol

Would you loan money to some guy with his credit card maxed… and still spending like a drunken sailor? This is the kind of thing that makes you believe Obama’s trying to crash the dollar… I’d like to know what Soros’ short position on the dollar is.

I sure wouldn’t be buying any T-bills right now… unless I was out of TP or something.

3) Dave In Houston

The new poster for Obama should be CLUELESS. The financial fun is just starting, group. Hang on for dear life.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/thanks-barack-poor-demand-for-us-treasury-bills-after-dems-pass-obamacare/

-- March 29, 2010 10:10 AM


Sara wrote:

It's like watching a shell game, really.
Don't worry about the future of the country.. and if it is becoming a banana republic.
Bogus threats which did not harm the homeland and were unlikely to at anytime in the future should take up your time and talk, not this:

===

Thanks Barack… 10 Year Outlook for Nation’s Deficit Has Deteriorated By $8 Trillion
Monday, March 29, 2010, 6:08 AM
Jim Hoft

The 10 year outlook for the nation’s budget deficit has deteriorated by $8 Trillion. Americans are likely to witness tax increases to close the budget deficit gap.
CNBC reported, via Free Republic:

Many Americans know the deficit has exploded this year. What may be less well-known is that the problem is not confined to this year or next, but stretches out at least a decade and represents a historic, multi-trillion-dollar change in the country’s fiscal fortunes.

CNBC, working with the Congressional Budget Office, found that the 10-year outlook for the nation’s deficit has deteriorated by almost $8 trillion. In effect, every man, woman and child in the United States has taken on an extra $25,000 in debt, CNBC has learned.

Comparing the CBO’s outlook in 2008 to the current forecast, CNBC found that what was once a projected $247 billion surplus for the years 2009 through 2018, is now an estimated $7.4 trillion deficit.

What caused it? According to the CBO, 57 percent of the increase was caused by the decline in revenues, of which a vast majority resulted from the agency’s outlook for the economy.

Specifically, Social Security accounts for a huge part of the revenue change. According to the network’s analysis, Social Security was expected to show a $2.3 trillion surplus over the 10-year period from 2009-2018. However, new figures show that if a surplus for the agency will exist at all, it is projected to be just over $1 trillion.

Adding to the deterioration is a range of expenses and methodology, including the stimulus bill, a change in accounting for the war, extended unemployment benefits and additional interest on debt.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke highlighted deficit concerns in his Congressional testimony on Thursday, saying that Americans are in for tough, unpopular changes, such as tax increases, to close the deficit gap.

Greenspan also warned that the nation faces a mountain of debt that it “has never seen before.”

Comments:

1) Andreas K.

I feel sick.

Honestly, I think that those 8 trillion are a very optimistic look. I mean, Germany, thanks to the welfare state, has an “unofficial” national debt of 6.2 trillion Euros (officialy it’s 1.7 trillion.)

Germany is smaller than the US with less inhabitants.

I think it’ll be a lot worse than 8 trillion.

Because once you open the floodgates of the welfare state… there’s no holding it back.

2) drjohn

Oooooooo, so let’s do Crap and Trade right away! We can’t let another crisis go to waste!

3) Neoavatara

Obama, by the end of this year, will have more in deficit spending than George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, or Ronald Reagan did during their entire 8 year terms. Obama, by the end of his Presidency, will have accrued more debt than in the previous 232 years of the Republic.

Job well done.

http://neoavatara.com/blog/?p=10626

4) Opus #6

Obama is poison for the economy.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/thanks-barack-10-year-outlook-for-nations-deficit-has-deteriorated-by-8-trillion/

-- March 29, 2010 10:19 AM


Sara wrote:

And unemployment is not a real concern, either.. ??
Look at the other hand.. the other hand!
Do you really want these guys in control again come December?
Or would you like fiscal reality, and maybe even a few jobs?
They're making RECORDS here, people.
Knock, knock.. anyone awake?

===

Unemployment Rate Rose in 27 States in February; Four Hit Records
Friday, March 26, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit

Unemployment continued to rise in 27 states in February—even breaking records in some states, according to government data released Friday.

The man who was gonna get our fiscal house in order...How 'bout all those shovel ready jobs from the economic stimulus?

cnbc.com

Joblessness in four states—Florida (12.2 percent), Nevada (13.2 percent), Georgia (10.5 percent) and North Carolina (11.2 percent)—hit record highs.

In all, 27 states saw their rates increase in February over the previous month. Seven states and the District of Columbia reported a decrease and 16 states had no change in their unemployment, according to the Labor Department.

Michigan still had the highest jobless rate in the nation, though it dipped to 14.1 percent from 14.3 percent in January.

Behind Michigan, Nevada had the second highest jobless rate in the country with 13.2 percent, followed by Rhode Island (12.7 percent) California (12.5 percent), South Carolina (12.5 percent) and Florida.

North Dakota again had the lowest jobless rate in country at 4.1 percent

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/unemployment-rate-rose-in-27-states-in.html

-- March 29, 2010 10:29 AM


Sara wrote:

Redistribution of Wealth..
Was this the party line in the elections?
Anyone remember them saying this is the normal path..
the right socialist/communist path to take, say..
when Joe the Plumber got an admission of it from candidate Barack?

===

Howard Dean: Of Course Health Care Law Is Redistribution of Wealth
Sunday, March 28, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit

Howard Dean not trying to hide anything...

http://www.breitbart.tv/howard-dean-of-course-health-care-law-is-redistribution-of-wealth/

breitbart.tv

Howard Dean: "I think when it gets out of wack as it did in the '20s and it has now, you need to do some redistribution, this is a form of redistribution. If you redistribute too much then the system doesn't work because you take the incentive out of it, it's like a machine, you always got to tune it right...The question is, what is the right balance"

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/howard-dean-of-course-health-care-law.html

-- March 29, 2010 10:50 AM


Sara wrote:

Democrats Try to Smother the Bad News
Jennifer Rubin - 03.27.2010

As I’ve noted during the week, the ObamaCare steamroller is already flattening the bottom lines of a number of large employers. Not content to see billions of losses pile up, the Democrats have now begun to berate employers for accurately accounting for the anticipated losses. The Wall Street Journal editors note:

Henry Waxman and House Democrats announced yesterday that they will haul these companies in for an April 21 hearing because their judgment “appears to conflict with independent analyses, which show that the new law will expand coverage and bring down costs.”

In other words, shoot the messenger. Black-letter financial accounting rules require that corporations immediately restate their earnings to reflect the present value of their long-term health liabilities, including a higher tax burden. Should these companies have played chicken with the Securities and Exchange Commission to avoid this politically inconvenient reality? Democrats don’t like what their bill is doing in the real world, so they now want to intimidate CEOs into keeping quiet.

On top of AT&T’s $1 billion, the writedown wave so far includes Deere & Co., $150 million; Caterpillar, $100 million; AK Steel, $31 million; 3M, $90 million; and Valero Energy, up to $20 million. Verizon has also warned its employees about its new higher health-care costs, and there will be many more in the coming days and weeks.

==

Well, this is par for the course: a complete disregard for the consequences of their own handiwork, the bullying of private enterprise, and the determination to politicize what were once economic and legal judgments. One can see in the Democrats’ fury the desperate attempt to conceal the implications of their monstrous legislation, to maintain as long as possible the fiction that ObamaCare is a great cost-saver, and boon to employers. It’s going to be hard to keep up the charade, for as the editors note, ObamaCare “was such a shoddy, jerry-rigged piece of work that the damage is coming sooner than even some critics expected.”

In that regard the adverse consequences of ObamaCare will likely be more apparent than those of the ill-conceived stimulus plan, which “merely” added to the ocean of red ink. How will shareholders, small-business owners, employees, and retirees react as they see the damage pile up, and learn that there is more in store if the bill is fully implemented? Well, they might find “Repeal and Replace!” an attractive message.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/267291

One can see in the Democrats’ fury the desperate attempt to conceal the implications of their monstrous legislation, to maintain as long as possible the fiction that ObamaCare is a great cost-saver, and boon to employers. It’s going to be hard to keep up the charade...

I hope they don't force the public off the real message.. chasing rabbits down wormholes (aka Alice in Wonderland before the election).
Will the public forget the truth of the consequences they face, before the election?
And how can they facilitate them to forget but distraction?
It will be a costly mistake to let Obamacare stand.. as these company figures already are beginning to show.

Sara.

-- March 29, 2010 12:08 PM


Sara wrote:

It is what will be in the end we should be looking at..
The future, after all, is not political, nor a football to be kicked from unjustifiable political end to end.
And we are all going to have to live there.

===

In the End, There Is Only the Debt
Victor Davis Hanson
Saturday, March 27, 2010

Amid all the fighting over health care, Obama's new promises, the Israeli spat, the Frum controversy, et al., looms the national debt. We can ignore it; get angry at it and say, "What the hell, I'll quadruple it!"; have our "experts" write sophistic treatises about how it either doesn't matter or is in truth good; hear our politicians claim it is secondary to the passing of a "progressive" agenda; or secretly smile that its service will require higher taxes and more "redistributive change"; but in the end, what we as a nation collectively owe others and ourselves transcends politics.

Cranky 19th-century-minded farmers used to preach about the tentacles of low interest. Apparently they had this strange idea that when interest rates went too low, the uninformed mob-like masses borrowed too much — and the resulting live-for-today demand for cheap money forced the once-endless pool of ready loans to dry up and interest to rise — and a few smarter people were sticking around to profit when this cycle played out like clockwork.

In short, the United States is floating far more loans than ever before in peacetime, and for longer scheduled durations, because interest rates are only a quarter of what they have been in the past. But this theory that we can endlessly multiply the size of our debt because the service costs remain low and static is a prescription for disaster — like the credit-card introductory offer of 2 to 3 percent for 6 months that hooks the naive into charging thousands of dollars, only to end up without the means to service the debt when the rate climbs over 20 percent. For a technocracy that is Ivy League certified and brags about its competency, we have fallen into the age-old trap that snares the naive ARM house buyer, the teenaged MasterCard mega-borrower, and the "free" coupon holder who heads headlong to Vegas.

That we are borrowing now at cheap interest hundreds of billions for things that are unnecessary or counterproductive will only make it worse, psychologically, when we have to pay it all back with high interest. It reminds me of the boom-to-bust neighbor who bought his superfluous super-duper, hydra-headed, metallic red-painted hydraulic vine-cutter with easy farm loans in the late 1970s and, when headed for bankruptcy in the 1980s, looked at the now rusted, useless contraption in his barnyard and sighed to me, "And I'm still paying 17 percent on that sucker!"

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmJkNWVmZTIyMmY3Yjg4N2U1YmFiN2IwMjM2ODEwOGE=

-- March 29, 2010 12:18 PM


Sara wrote:

Prominent Iraq politicians fail to win seats
AP - Mon Mar 29th, 2010

BAGHDAD - Several prominent Iraqi politicians — long considered untouchable — failed to win seats in the country's March 7 election, according to lists published Monday, reflecting voter dissatisfaction with the country's political class.

The list of candidates who made it into the 325-member parliament were surprising for the absence of several household names of the faction-ridden politics of the past few years.

Those who didn't make the cut included the powerful Ali al-Lami of the Shiite religious bloc, who led a government vetting panel that banned about 450 candidates, mostly Sunnis, from running in the elections for alleged ties to Saddam Hussein 's old party.

Defense Minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obeidi and national security adviser Mouwaffaq al-Rubaie were also not re-elected. Neither was veteran Sunni politician Adnan Pachachi , an elderly statesman from a prominent Baghdad family. Pachachi, in his 80s, had been rarely attending parliament sessions.

For the first time, Iraqis had the chance to vote for individual candidates, instead of just political parties, on an open ballot sheet, allowing them to choose — or vote out — certain individuals.

The result was that many of the movers and shakers in the halls of government and parliament found that they didn't have any support among the voters.

Neither Allawi's Iraqiya, with 91 seats, nor al-Maliki's State of Law with 89, have an outright majority, but Allawi should be entitled to the first shot at forging a ruling coalition.

In a legal push, al-Maliki extracted a Supreme Court decision just before the election results were released on Friday allowing for alliances formed after the elections to form the next government.

There has also been a push to have 50 candidates, mostly from Allawi's list, disqualified over alleged ties to Saddam Hussein 's regime. Al-Maliki has also opened negotiations with both Iraq's Kurdish Alliance and the Shiite religious bloc, two major groups whose votes he will need for any future government.

Since the elections and the announcement of the results there has been regular, though fairly minor, incidents of violence. It is unclear if these are by insurgents or factions out to settle political scores.

http://us.new.m.yahoo.com/w/ynews/article/politics/11?url=http%3A%2F%2Fxml.news.yahoo.com%2Fus%2Fnews%2Frss%2Frichstoryrss.html%3Fu%3D%2Fap%2F20100329%2Fap_on_re_mi_ea%2Fml_iraq&.ts=1269871662&.intl=us&.lang=en&.ysid=TnFjWkOC_dwacrbiHgv8Yw--

-- March 29, 2010 1:19 PM


Sara wrote:

According to Iraqi sources, Maliki, the INA, and Talabani -- who controls eight or nine seats within the Kurdish bloc -- agreed in Iran to form a government...

Nothing like forming a government for Iraq while sitting in IRAN..
After all, they can oversee it so well from there.
What was that about a "puppet" government, RobN?
Who is pulling the strings here, now?
Certainly not the people who elected Allawi.
So much for the US leaving Iraq a democracy able to stand on its own.
Mr cut-and-run strikes again.. and may by his inept policies drag the US back into war over there.

Sara.

===

Tehran's Coup in Iraq?
posted by Robert Dreyfuss
03/28/2010

Iran is losing no time in assembling a pro-Tehran government in Iraq, and in so doing Tehran may push the Sunni minority in Iraq into violent rebellion. Already, there are reports from Iraq -- from Iraqi political insiders -- that former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi who led a nationalist, anti-Iranian coalition of secular Sunni and Shiite voters, may opt to boycott the upcoming new national assembly if he isn't given the right to form a government.

"We expect that there will be calls for a boycott of the parliament and for civil disobedience," according to Aiham Alsammarae, an ally of Allawi's. A violent reaction by Allawi's supporters can't be ruled out, he said, from voters who demand that Allawi be given the first crack at putting together a government. In the March 7 election, Allawi's Iraqi Nationalist Movement won 91 seats, edging out the State of Law party of Prime Minister Maliki, who won 89 seats.

But top Iraqi politicians representing Shiite sectarian politicians and Kurdish separatists filed dutifully to Iran yesterday for meetings on the formation of a new Iraqi government despite Allawi's win.

President Jalal Talabani, a Kurdish leader, visited Tehran this weekend for meetings with President Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader. Talabani was accompanied by Adel Abdel Mahdi, a leader of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq (ISCI)and Iraq's vice president, one of the leaders of the pro-Iranian Shiite religious bloc, the Iraqi National Alliance (INA). In parallel, leaders of Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki's State of Law party traveled to Iran to meet with Muqtada al-Sadr. Sadr and Abdel Mahdi are two key members of the INA, and behind the scenes Iran is knocking heads together to make sure that Maliki, the INA, and Talabani form a ruling alliance, according to Iraqi sources interviewed from Iraq and Jordan.

Their goal: to undercut former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. Under Iraqi law, and according to previous procedures, Allawi would normally be asked to form a government. But Maliki finagled a court decision that, he says, allows him to form a broader coalition first and then claim the right to announce a ruling majority.

According to Iraqi sources, Maliki, the INA, and Talabani -- who controls eight or nine seats within the Kurdish bloc -- agreed in Iran to form a government, which could muster about 170 seats, more than the 163 necessary in the 325-member parliament. As a result, the sources report, Masoud Barzani, the chief Kurdish leader, will also throw in with the pro-Maliki bloc. (Recently, Allawi and Barzani reportedly reached an understanding about an alliance, but even together they don't have enough votes to form a government.)

Allawi and his allies, including Saleh al-Mutlaq, who was banned from running for office by the so-called de-Baathification commission, have tried to reach out to the United States for support. But Washington, whose influence in Iraq is waning rapidly, and which plans to withdraw its last remaining combat forces from Iraq by August, hasn't responded to Allawi's overtures. Needless to say, the last thing that the Obama administration needs is to become embroiled in Iraq's post-election crisis, and there's little that Washington could do, anyway, to affect the outcome. Indeed, for years now it's been clear that American influence in Iraq has been shrinking, and that Iran's clout has been increasing.

But whether Washington likes it or not, Iraq may once again be pushed to the brink of civil war.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/546302/tehran_s_coup_in_iraq?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheNationEdPicks+%28The+Nation%3A+Top+Stories%29

-- March 29, 2010 1:30 PM


Sara wrote:

A couple of viewpoints on the mess:

===

Iraq: either the secular nationalists will win -- or Mookie (and Iran) will
Posted By Thomas E. Ricks
Monday, March 29, 2010

There are bombs going off in Qaim and elsewhere. Here are two very different takes on what is going on in Iraq politics.
By Col. Gary Anderson (USMC, ret.)
Best Defense west Baghdad bureau chief

What is happening in Iraq is far from American style horse-trading. Nor is this about simple sectarianism. What we will see in Iraq in the immediate future will be a naked power struggle among the three main elements in the Shiite community:

- Secular nationalists
- Islamic nationalists
- Islamic pro-Iranians

I'm betting that one of the nationalist groups will eventually win, but that it will not be without a good deal of bloodshed. The winning party will likely be the one that the army backs, which will be the secular side, as the Iraqi army doesn't like Sadr, who is the leading Islamic nationalist. I would also bet that Chalabi ends up in exile or worse.

The result will be a regime that is more authoritarian than we will like, but it is to be hoped, western leaning.

===

But wait a minute. Old Juan Cole has another take, less optimistic take. He reports that his readings tell him that last sentence of Gary's isn't likely to be realized: He says that al-Hayat is reporting:

... that a couple of days ago representatives of the Sadr Movement and of al-Maliki's State of Law met in Tehran in an Iranian-backed attempt quickly to form a new Shiite-dominated government. In Iran for the talks were President Jalal Talibani and his Shiite vice president, Adil Abdel Mahdi of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq.

This move underlines the way in which Iraq's election has geopolitical as well as local significance. Also that Iran is sitting pretty while the U.S. prepares to withdraw.

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/29/iraq_either_the_secular_nationalists_will_win_or_mookie_and_iran_will

-- March 29, 2010 2:27 PM


Sara wrote:

For reference, why didn't they pick these throat-slitting jihadis with assault weapons?
Too un-PC?

===

'Chilling' new video: How to slit throats
Jihad maneuvers taught at New York compound
Posted: December 15, 2009
By Bob Unruh

Jihad training video

A new video released by the Christian Action Network shows Muslim women at a compound in New York state practicing throat-slitting techniques and assault weapons attacks.

The video was distributed by the makers of the movie "Homegrown Jihad: The Terrorist Camps Around the U.S.," which documents how a jihadist group has developed dozens of training camps across the nation.

WND reported at the time how Jamaat ul-Fuqra has built 35 compounds – mostly in the northeastern corridor of the U.S.

Now the organization has posted on YouTube a "chilling" training video provided to CAN by an unnamed law enforcement source about the Muslims of America headquarters in Hancock, New York.

Muslims of America reportedly is the name Jamaat ul-Fuqra, believed to have been involved in the beheading of reporter Daniel Pearl, uses in the U.S.

The video includes segments of training exercises in which one person appears to practice a maneuver that would slit the throat of a victim. There are episodes of what appears to be automatic weapons fire at a target and incidents in which a handgun is held point-blank at a "victim's" head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebg6AFylios&feature=player_embedded

The video shows women marching in military formation, scaling walls, engaging in hand-to-hand combat and also reveals a Muslim confirming that the organization's own census revealed that Muslims are a majority in the United States and they are claiming it as their own.

Jihad training video showing how to slit a throat

The speaker states, "We are 100 percent sure that Muslims are the majority in America."

He continues, "Our Islamic political party has based its manifesto on this fact. We want to declare once and for all that America is our country."

According to CAN, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security in 2005 warned about Jamaat ul-Fuqra, a Pakistani-based organization that "had the capacity to attack" America.

The U.S. State Department's 1998 "Patterns of Global Terrorism" report notes the organization "seeks to purify Islam through violence."

The report continued, "Members have purchased isolated rural compounds in North America to live communally, practice their faith and insulate themselves from Western culture. Fuqra members have attacked a variety of targets that they view as enemies of Islam."

CAN, led by Martin Mawyer, has researched Muslims of America for years and has provided its video to the FBI, State Department and Homeland Security.

To date, there has been no response from the government, the group said.

Mawyer told WND the political correctness America has adopted ultimately will be costly.

Marching in formation on jihad training video

The hands of law enforcement and investigators are tied at this point, he said, because members of the organization are part of "a minority religion," "they are African-American" "and in this particular case, are women."

"Gilani has stated he is preparing his members to the Soldiers of Allah, and he's set up the most advanced guerrilla warfare training camps," he said. "He's being true to his word.

"If the evidence is right in front of our face and we have the words from the leader," Mawyer said. "I don't know how we continue to close our eyes and be blinded by such obvious affront to American values, the Constitution and our way of life."

The organization's "Homegrown Jihad" video includes a chilling scene of Jamaat ul-Fuqra's leader Sheikh Mubarak Gilani telling followers to "act like you're his friend. Then kill him."

According to the Religion of Peace website, there have been more than 250 jihad attacks by Muslims around the globe – including two inside the U.S. – in just the last two months.

The death toll from the attacks has surpassed 1,400, the report says.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=119087

-- March 29, 2010 3:38 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara,

I am in favor of Iranian influence winning out in Iraq. This will create a balance in region that stands contrary to the United States and its imperialistic goals in the region. An Iranian victory in Iraq is revenge best served cold on a broken foreign policy authored by George W. Bush and now Barack Hussein Obama bent on imperialistic domination in the region.

Allawi, is nothing but a U.S. puppet like Karazi in Afghanistan perhaps with the help of Sadr and the Iranians the Iraqis can choose a Theocracy instead of the inefficient and in effectual parlimentary system that is currently in place. This and the U.S. inability to win in afghanistan may bring an end to U.S. domination in the region. A withdrawal from both Iraq and Afghanistan is good for the region and good for America.

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 29, 2010 5:52 PM


The UnSara wrote:

Republican Income Re-Distribution: Bailing out greedy Wall Street fat cats who nearly destroy the economy, and throw 10% of the population on the breadline.

Democrat Income Re-Distribution: Helping out a poor but hardworking American family, who has a sick child.

-- March 29, 2010 8:40 PM


Dinar Daddy wrote:

RV Dinar at $2.47?
March 24, 2010 · Posted in CHATS / POSTS
Helpful Insight On The Dinar RV
The following was shared as a recent comment. In my opinion, it contains some of the most informative, interesting and encouraging insight I’ve read on the dinar rv I’ve read in a while.

Enjoy!

Just some concepts to keep in mind as we watch the events unfold and the weird way things seem to be going.

First, money:

There are basically two types of money; money based on the strength of an economy like the US, and money based on valuable commodities like oil, gold, etc., like Kuwait, Saudi, and at present Iraq, potentially.

The value of the USD is based on our ability to produce goods and services.

The value of the KWD (Kuwait), for example, is 95% based on the value of the oil in the ground being pumped and sold. Iraq, right now, has now valued its money on the value of its commodities of which they have an abundance (oil, gold, other minerals, agriculture and a host of other valuable things the world wants). BUT, Iraq WANTS to have an economy on which to base its money because having a viable economy is MORE stable than simply pumping oil. When the oil runs out, their money becomes worthless again.

Second, International Politics:

The US and Iraq are tied together, the US$ is Iraq’s international money. They want their OWN international money.

China wants to dethrone the US$ as the global so they are pushing buttons with the IMF to revalue the IQD at a LOW rate which will weaken the US$. But they can’t let the US$ get too low, or their exports will become expensive and they will lose market share in the US. They are conspiring with Russia and Iran to screw the US$ internationally.

(Helped by Mega-Fools like Robedict Narnold.)

Third, US politics:

As the US deficit and debt grow our money becomes less valuable internationally. A good Iraq RV will boost the US$ big time and blunt the Chinese efforts to screw us. This just happened with Dubai. The
Dubai problem is centered in the which effects the EURO. US banks are not heavily into Dubai, thus with the Dubai possible default international money is flocking to the US and increasing the value of the US$ against the EURO. The US took a 6.5% bump up since the Dubai Real estate Real estate problem became public.

This means that the IMF efforts to pin the Dinar to the EURO (the $1.49 RV) is weakened by the stronger US$ which makes the Iraqi desire for a HIGH RV in US$ more probable and more feasible.

Fourth, International Trade:

Iraq WANTS to establish an economy based on more than their oil, gold, and natural Natural gas Natural gas so they have to get into the international market systems. To do this they MUST have a currency with real value.

The sooner they do the RV, the faster they will be able to build their economy.
They have taken the steps necessary to begin this process, but still need the revalued currency.
So right now, we know a few things.

First, in order to get a better economic position the CBI had to revalue before the IMF imposed deadline which all information says they did.

So there IS a value but we don’t know what it is. But the CBI has no POWER to implement the RV publicly. Only the government of Iraq can do that and they are looking for the most politically advantageous time.

Apparently, the CBI HAS made the decision to avoid the embarrassment of having the IMF tell them what THEIR money should be worth. They just haven’t made it known yet. That’s up to the politicians. We believe they are ready to do it but just have not decided precisely when. With their desire to get into international trade, they have to get moving on this.

Second, Iraq didn’t want the low IMF value of $1.49. They would prefer a high $3.27 for two reasons; it is supportable by their Natural resource Natural, AND it would attract to the country to help build their economy

Third, they can’t go too high as that would only be based on natural resources and would be better off to go a little lower in order to give them room to grow. Thus, we have the $2.47 possible rate. The problem with the high rate is that it would make the nation a welfare state like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. In both those countries with high value money, they don’t do anything but pump oil. 95% of the value of their currency is the money they get from exporting oil. Most of the skilled work is done by foreigners. Iraq is the best educated Arab country. There is no need for that. They have plenty of skilled people, and a young population that can be educated. If the exports decrease, their revenues decrease and they have nothing to back it up. The people don’t do anything except receive royalty checks from the government. It’s like a nation of welfare recipients run by rich sheiks.
Iraq wants to avoid that situation, but still have a high enough value to attract .

-- March 29, 2010 10:30 PM


Anonymous wrote:

Rob is pulling everyone's leg. Even he is not so crazy as to believe what he just wrote, that Iraq should have a theocracy.

-- March 30, 2010 12:59 AM


Sara wrote:

Anonymous - Either that or he is part of an Iranian sleeper cel and just likes to come on here to vent his frustration and hatred at America? There are Iranians among us, you know. One of them I know personally - he hates Jews and Christians, all Bible believers. His veiled and not so veiled threats are a constant source to energize my prayer life, for sure. He, too loves Maliki and wishes him to win, unsuprisingly.

NotSara - A dose of reality:

Some purchases will no longer be allowed, including most over-the-counter medications prescribed by doctors.
Retiree drug subsidy payments will be taxed under the new law.
Brand-name drugs will face an additional tax starting this year.
Health care providers will start paying more for medical devices in 2011.

Among other "goodies" -

===

Local business owners seek understanding of health care law as specific rules, regulations take shape
Published: 3/26/2010
By DOUG WILSON
Herald-Whig Senior Writer

Quincy businessman Mike Nobis went to Springfield on Tuesday for an informational meeting on how the new health care law will affect businesses.

"I just about had a heart attack ... when I learned that in 2012 every business is going to have to do a 1099 (tax report) on every business-to-business transaction over $600," Nobis said.

Nobis wondered what those hundreds of business-to-business transactions have to do with health care. Experts with the National Federation of Independent Business speculate that the 1099 provisions were going to help generate fines when "16,000 new auditors" are hired by the Internal Revenue Service.

Bill Cox, president of Brown Drug Co., has tried to keep up on what the health care reforms will mean for him. He said he and most other business people still don't know much.

"Everything is gray. Nothing is written down so the layperson can understand it," Cox said.

Part of the reason for the uncertainty arises because the U.S. Senate and U.S. House still were making adjustments in the law Thursday. In addition, the law has to be translated into rules by several governmental agencies, and the provisions take effect gradually under annual deadlines through 2014.

Amy Looten, executive director of the Quincy Area Chamber of Commerce, said local business people need more information.

"As with any piece of legislation, the devil is in the details," Looten said.

"Right now, our business community is waiting for more information about the regulations that will be associated with this legislation. There's no doubt, though, that it will be an additional expense for every business and every taxpayer in the country."

Those expenses are expected because every U.S. citizen will be mandated to have qualifying health insurance coverage by 2014. Yet people whose income is up to four times the federal poverty level can qualify for some sort of government subsidy.

Since millions of people won't be paying the entire cost of their premiums, the government will have to come up with funding to help pay for the coverage. Rules in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act call for fining people who fail to buy individual policies or employers whose workers do not earn a certain amount or receive qualifying insurance.

Paying workers too little will trigger fines, and providing too much insurance coverage will trigger penalties.

"If that many people are going to get insurance, somebody's going to pay for it. It's a $900 billion cost, and the government has one way of raising money, and that's to levy taxes," Cox said.

According to the National Federation of Independent Business' analysis, employers with 50 or more employees will face penalties of $3,000 per subsidized employee or $750 for all employees, whichever is lower.

Nobis said that's a huge cost because families earning about $88,000 a year would be eligible for subsidies based on the federal poverty level of $22,050.

Companies and individuals with health savings accounts or flexible savings accounts will be affected in 2011. Some purchases will no longer be allowed, including most over-the-counter medications prescribed by doctors. HSAs and FSAs will be de-emphasized as health care reforms take effect. Maximum annual contributions to HSAs will be capped at $2,500, down from $5,000.

Companies that provide expensive insurance plans -- exceeding $8,500 a year for an individual or $23,000 for a family -- will face a 40 percent excise tax starting in 2013. This provision has caused many business owners to question why Congress wants to limit health care by attacking what are called "Cadillac plans."

Tanning salon's will have to charge a 10 percent excise tax starting in 2011.

That same year, all adult workers in the United States will automatically be enrolled in long-term care programs unless they choose to opt out. Retiree drug subsidy payments will be taxed under the new law.

Brand-name drugs will face an additional tax starting this year. The tax is expected to generate $2.3 billion, and although it has been described as a tax on manufacturers and importers, the higher costs will likely be passed along to consumers.

Health care providers will start paying more for medical devices in 2011. A tax on manufacturers or importers of medical devices is expected to generate $2 billion a year up through 2017. It will rise to $3 billion a year after that.

Cox said someone asked him recently whether the pharmaceutical industry would be affected by the new law.

"I said it is going to affect everybody," Cox said.

http://www.whig.com/story/news/Health-care-biz-impact-032610

Thanks, Dinar Daddy!
I needed that!
We all hope Iraq can get their act together so they can prosper..
I appreciate your post.

Sara.

-- March 30, 2010 10:47 AM


Sara wrote:

This article states the urgency of the RV in my opinion by saying:

history shows that democracy is most likely to survive in countries that have reached a certain economic level and have thus developed a powerful middle class. Iraq--the victim of the most grinding economic sanctions in world history, three devastating wars since 1980, and ethno-sectarian rebellion as far back as the eye can see -- has seen its economy plummet past the point where democracy is likely to prove sustainable.

Basically, democracy can only work where there is a robust economy and wealth. That means RV of Dinar.. or Iraq slides back into something worse than a democracy, perhaps under a puppet dictatorship by Iran. Though Iraq's political culture has been one of "threats, intimidation, and accusation" in the past, I believe they can rise above that if they have motivation to do so. A uniting principle could be their unity as a country whose people jointly desire to further their own peace and prosperity. This article underestimates, in my view, the lengths to which Iraqis will go to have peace and prosperity, as is shown by the election turnout and bravery of her people.

The power struggles have to be the hardest thing to overcome, but they, too, are not impossible. Certainly, the divisions are enhanced only for the benefit of others around them, such as Iran. It takes more strength to step down from seeking power unlawfully (as in the case of Maliki seeking to overturn the ballot box with a coup from the judicial branch), than to stand up and dictate policy. If the Iraqis have that ability to do what is right for the country over their own personal interests, we will have to see. If not, the road ahead looks less rosy. If so, with the Dinar RVed and prosperity rolling in, and cooperation happening.. Iraq can take its place among the world's powers.

We will have to see what the Iraqis will choose.

===

Not Out of the Woods in Iraq
Ivan Eland | March 30, 2010

Despite Newsweek's astonishing cover story announcing "Victory at Last," the results of the Iraqi election could destabilize the country, as they did five years ago.

In 2005, the disaffected Sunnis boycotted the vote and resorted to violence during and after the long interregnum in which Iraqi factions bickered and bargained to form a government. Burned by under-representation in the Iraqi parliament as a result of their boycott, the Sunnis participated this time around. So everything should turn out better, right? Not likely.

Despite the veneer of multi-ethno-sectarian election groupings, Iraqis still vote mostly along ethno-sectarian lines. A foreign power imposing a foreign system of democracy at gunpoint will always have several major problems in a country such as Iraq. All of these have to do with underlying societal forces that undermine the superstructure of democracy, rendering it artificial.

The first is that history shows that democracy is most likely to survive in countries that have reached a certain economic level and have thus developed a powerful middle class. Iraq--the victim of the most grinding economic sanctions in world history, three devastating wars since 1980, and ethno-sectarian rebellion as far back as the eye can see -- has seen its economy plummet past the point where democracy is likely to prove sustainable.

Second, Iraq, since becoming independent of British rule, has largely been ruled by a series of dictators, the latest of which was Saddam Hussein. As demonstrated by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's invocation of his title as Commander-in-Chief of Iraqi security forces and his demand for an electoral recount (even before the official results were announced), Iraq's political culture is still one of threats, intimidation, and accusation. This is a fact that can't be changed just by holding a few elections.

Third and most important, the underlying ethno-sectarian fissures in the country render a successful federal system of government almost impossible. Such a system requires close cooperation between the national, provincial, and local levels, which is very difficult when groups fight for power at all levels on an ethno-sectarian basis. A very loose and more decentralized confederation might be a better form of government for a fractured Iraq.

The results of the recent election indicate a very close race between Prime Minister al-Maliki's faction, which was supported mainly by Shi'a, and Ayad Allawi's group, which was primarily backed by Sunnis. Since the majority Shi'i vote has been split, it is possible that Allawi could try to form the next government. If that happens, the Shi'a and the Kurds -- long oppressed by the minority Sunnis -- might anticipate that recurring, and they could react violently.

If instead al-Maliki ends up trying to form a government, then the Sunnis could again feel politically marginalized, reigniting their insurgency. Also, returns indicate a strong showing by the anti-American radical Shi'i Muqtada al-Sadr, which could also cause a major problem for al-Maliki since he helped repress al-Sadr's militias in Basra and elsewhere. The Kurds -- now less unified -- are a wild card.

Lastly, no matter what final coalition ends up controlling the Iraqi government, the close election could mean another protracted interregnum before that negotiated grouping gels. The gap could be filled with more ethno-sectarian strife.

Thus, it is too early for the U.S. elite's self-congratulation that democracy has finally been solidified in Iraq. Defeat could yet be snatched from the jaws of victory after U.S. forces leave, and even before that if the latest election is as destabilizing as was the one in 2005.

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,212878,00.html

-- March 30, 2010 11:54 AM


Anonymous wrote:

It's time for Osama bin Laden to take a long dirt nap!

-- March 30, 2010 11:57 AM


Sara wrote:

Wheeling and dealing continues in Iraq
By Mohammad Akef Jamal - Gulf News
29 March 2010

The leaders of the various political blocs that performed well in the elections are now busy working around the clock on deals to form the government that will rule Iraq for the next four years.

Former premier Eyad Allawi's secular bloc won the most seats in Iraq 's parliamentary election, edging incumbent Prime Minister Nouri Al Maliki's coalition. Allawi's Iraqiya won 91 seats, two more than Al Maliki's State of Law Alliance . The Iraqi National Alliance came third with 70 seats.

The vote in Allawi's favour reflected mainly the dissatisfaction with Al Maliki's leadership on one hand, and cast doubts about his ability to face serious issues regional interference in internal Iraq affairs, corruption, security, governmental services, national reconciliation and rebuilding Iraq which provide opportunities and jobs on the other hand.

Allawi leads a crosssectarian bloc, and as a statesman has a clear vision about what Iraq needs at this stage of the political process. He knows how to tackle complicity, not to contemplate it.

The parties now know where they stand and are manoeuvring to gain some ground. Each has drawn up a list of demands and prepared negotiating tactics. Moreover, some of these political groups will get foreign assistance to enhance their negotiating ability.

The strategies at play are as complicated as the Iraqi political map. Hence it is possible that some parties will change course and form alliances with blocs they previously shunned.

The focus of the negotiation process is the position of prime minister, which is the most important political office according to Iraq's Constitution.

Will the post go to a candidate from the bloc that received the most votes? Or will it go to someone else as a result of new alliances born out of negotiations taking place under the table? No doubt we will need more time to be able to answer these questions, as all options are on the table.Al Maliki criticised the political process in place over the past few years since US occupation and talked about the necessity of moving towards a new form of government, where the party with the majority in parliament takes precedence, as in Western democracies.

Al Maliki's rivals say that he has adopted this method while in power, despite the fact that his government included members of different political groups. They say the only governing body over the last four years was the prime minister's office, with advisers selected from the Al Dawa party which Al Maliki leads.

This method of governance is not favoured by some participants in the political process in Iraq, because it would reduce the influence of certain ethnic groups or sects. It is worth remembering that most political parties in Iraq were built on sectarian or ethnic foundations.

Allawi, chairman of the Al Iraqiya bloc, says he is in favour of "political partnerships". , a new political term in Iraq, coined asto be a substitute for the "accordance", term which brought the political process to a halt.However, political partnerships amount to tying the hands of the prime minister to appease the heads of rival blocs, while angering the majority of Iraqi people.

Out of favour

One thing most of the major political blocs in Iraq agree on is that Al Maliki should be removed from the political process despite the large number of votes he won in the elections. Al Maliki, though, is determined to remain in his post by questioning the results and calling for a manual recount, implying that otherwise violence will return to Iraq's streets once again.

After Iraq's electoral commission rejected a request by Al Maliki for a manual recount, the Al Dawa party took to the streets and limited demonstrations took place in Najaf in support of Al Maliki's demands.

It is possible that this development will lead to clashes with the groups that will be tasked with setting up the new Iraqi government, thereby threatening the fragile stability of the country.

The general desire to sideline Al Maliki is not the result of a personal vendetta. Rather, it stems from the wish to diminish the influence of Al Dawa party, which took sole control of the government over the past four years, despite the fact that Al Maliki came to power through the backing of his former allies, especially the Sadrist lawmakers.

Every political bloc in Iraq has defined its targets, drawn up its strategies and identified the weaknesses of their rivals. The aim of each group is to maintain unity and thus negotiating power, while overcoming their rivals by weakening and dividing them.

If straightforward negotiations do not achieve satisfactory deals, pressure and even extortion are mechanisms that can be used behind the scenes.

The Iraqi National Coalition will play a decisive role in the whole process. Its decision to strike an alliance with either the Al Iraqiya or State of Law blocs will decide the immediate future of Iraq. What will the INC's conditions be, especially as some of its candidates have designs on the prime minister's office?

Many deals are being discussed and negotiated now behind the scenes. However, the important question remains whether these pacts will produce an arrangement capable of satisfying Iraqis, who have high hopes for their next government.

Dr Mohammad Akef Jamal is an Iraqi writer based in Dubai.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100329113135/Wheeling%20and%20dealing%20continues%20in%20Iraq/

-- March 30, 2010 12:35 PM


Willy Loman wrote:

Willy Loman wrote:

Attention must be paid.....famous last words.. Have you ever wondered why 10% of Americans are out of work? How people on Wall Street can live with themselves after nearly destroying the American economy, and destroying the lives of millions of decent, hard-working Americans? How could they? These people took enormous and dangerous risks with billions of dollars, and nearly collapsed the financial system. Have you ever wondered: What's wrong with these people? How could they do that? Didn't they realize how destructive they were being? They are good Republicans, like me, right? They can't be bad people, right? Read on. Here's your answer:

Why the Capitalist Economy Nearly Failed:

From Fast Company

"Is Your Boss a Psychopath?
By: Alan Deutschman July 1, 2005
Odds are you've run across one of these characters in your career. They're glib, charming, manipulative, deceitful, ruthless -- and very, very destructive. And there may be lots of them in America's corner offices.

One of the most provocative ideas about business in this decade so far surfaced in a most unlikely place. The forum wasn't the Harvard Business School or one of those $4,000-a-head conferences where Silicon Valley's venture capitalists search for the next big thing. It was a convention of Canadian cops in the far-flung province of Newfoundland. The speaker, a 71-year-old professor emeritus from the University of British Columbia, remains virtually unknown in the business realm. But he's renowned in his own field: criminal psychology. Robert Hare is the creator of the Psychopathy Checklist. The 20-item personality evaluation has exerted enormous influence in its quarter-century history. It's the standard tool for making clinical diagnoses of psychopaths -- the 1% of the general population that isn't burdened by conscience. Psychopaths have a profound lack of empathy. They use other people callously and remorselessly for their own ends. They seduce victims with a hypnotic charm that masks their true nature as pathological liars, master con artists, and heartless manipulators. Easily bored, they crave constant stimulation, so they seek thrills from real-life "games" they can win -- and take pleasure from their power over other people.

On that August day in 2002, Hare gave a talk on psychopathy to about 150 police and law-enforcement officials. He was a legendary figure to that crowd. The FBI and the British justice system have long relied on his advice. He created the P-Scan, a test widely used by police departments to screen new recruits for psychopathy, and his ideas have inspired the testing of firefighters, teachers, and operators of nuclear power plants.

According to the Canadian Press and Toronto Sun reporters who rescued the moment from obscurity, Hare began by talking about Mafia hit men and sex offenders, whose photos were projected on a large screen behind him. But then those images were replaced by pictures of top executives from WorldCom, which had just declared bankruptcy, and Enron, which imploded only months earlier. The securities frauds would eventually lead to long prison sentences for WorldCom CEO Bernard Ebbers and Enron CFO Andrew Fastow.

"These are callous, cold-blooded individuals," Hare said.

"They don't care that you have thoughts and feelings. They have no sense of guilt or remorse." He talked about the pain and suffering the corporate rogues had inflicted on thousands of people who had lost their jobs, or their life's savings. Some of those victims would succumb to heart attacks or commit suicide, he said.

Then Hare came out with a startling proposal. He said that the recent corporate scandals could have been prevented if CEOs were screened for psychopathic behavior. "Why wouldn't we want to screen them?" he asked. "We screen police officers, teachers. Why not people who are going to handle billions of dollars?"

It's Hare's latest contribution to the public awareness of "corporate psychopathy." He appeared in the 2003 documentary The Corporation, giving authority to the film's premise that corporations are "sociopathic" (a synonym for "psychopathic") because they ruthlessly seek their own selfish interests -- "shareholder value" -- without regard for the harms they cause to others, such as environmental damage.

Is Hare right? Are corporations fundamentally psychopathic organizations that attract similarly disposed people? It's a compelling idea, especially given the recent evidence. Such scandals as Enron and WorldCom aren't just aberrations; they represent what can happen when some basic currents in our business culture turn malignant. We're worshipful of top executives who seem charismatic, visionary, and tough. So long as they're lifting profits and stock prices, we're willing to overlook that they can also be callous, conning, manipulative, deceitful, verbally and psychologically abusive, remorseless, exploitative, self-delusional, irresponsible, and megalomaniacal. So we collude in the elevation of leaders who are sadly insensitive to hurting others and society at large.

But wait, you say: Don't bona fide psychopaths become serial killers or other kinds of violent criminals, rather than the guys in the next cubicle or the corner office? That was the conventional wisdom. Indeed, Hare began his work by studying men in prison. Granted, that's still an unusually good place to look for the conscience-impaired. The average Psychopathy Checklist score for incarcerated male offenders in North America is 23.3, out of a possible 40. A score of around 20 qualifies as "moderately psychopathic." Only 1% of the general population would score 30 or above, which is "highly psychopathic," the range for the most violent offenders. Hare has said that the typical citizen would score a 3 or 4, while anything below that is "sliding into sainthood."

On the broad continuum between the ethical everyman and the predatory killer, there's plenty of room for people who are ruthless but not violent. This is where you're likely to find such people as Ebbers, Fastow, ImClone CEO Sam Waksal, and hotelier Leona Helmsley. We put several big-name CEOs through the checklist, and they scored as "moderately psychopathic"; our quiz on page 48 lets you try a similar exercise with your favorite boss. And this summer, together with New York industrial psychologist Paul Babiak, Hare begins marketing the B-Scan, a personality test that companies can use to spot job candidates who may have an MBA but lack a conscience. "I always said that if I wasn't studying psychopaths in prison, I'd do it at the stock exchange," Hare told Fast Company. "There are certainly more people in the business world who would score high in the psychopathic dimension than in the general population. You'll find them in any organization where, by the nature of one's position, you have power and control over other people and the opportunity to get something."

There's evidence that the business climate has become even more hospitable to psychopaths in recent years. In pioneering long-term studies of psychopaths in the workplace, Babiak focused on a half-dozen unnamed companies: One was a fast-growing high-tech firm, and the others were large multinationals undergoing dramatic organizational changes -- severe downsizing, restructuring, mergers and acquisitions, and joint ventures. That's just the sort of corporate tumult that has increasingly characterized the U.S. business landscape in the last couple of decades. And just as wars can produce exciting opportunities for murderous psychopaths to shine (think of Serbia's Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic), Babiak found that these organizational shake-ups created a welcoming environment for the corporate killer. "The psychopath has no difficulty dealing with the consequences of rapid change; in fact, he or she thrives on it," Babiak claims. "Organizational chaos provides both the necessary stimulation for psychopathic thrill seeking and sufficient cover for psychopathic manipulation and abusive behavior."

And you can make a compelling case that the New Economy, with its rule-breaking and roller-coaster results, is just dandy for folks with psychopathic traits too. A slow-moving old-economy corporation would be too boring for a psychopath, who needs constant stimulation. Its rigid structures and processes and predictable ways might stymie his unethical scheming. But a charge-ahead New Economy maverick -- an Enron, for instance -- would seem the ideal place for this kind of operator.

But how can we recognize psychopathic types? Hare has revised his Psychopathy Checklist (known as the PCL-R, or simply "the Hare") to make it easier to identify so-called subcriminal or corporate psychopaths. He has broken down the 20 personality characteristics into two subsets, or "factors." Corporate psychopaths score high on Factor 1, the "selfish, callous, and remorseless use of others" category. It includes eight traits: glibness and superficial charm; grandiose sense of self-worth; pathological lying; conning and manipulativeness; lack of remorse or guilt; shallow affect (i.e., a coldness covered up by dramatic emotional displays that are actually playacting); callousness and lack of empathy; and the failure to accept responsibility for one's own actions. Sound like anyone you know? (Corporate psychopaths score only low to moderate on Factor 2, which pinpoints "chronically unstable, antisocial, and socially deviant lifestyle," the hallmarks of people who wind up in jail for rougher crimes than creative accounting.)

This view is supported by research by psychologists Belinda Board and Katarina Fritzon at the University of Surrey, who interviewed and gave personality tests to 39 high-level British executives and compared their profiles with those of criminals and psychiatric patients. The executives were even more likely to be superficially charming, egocentric, insincere, and manipulative, and just as likely to be grandiose, exploitative, and lacking in empathy. Board and Fritzon concluded that the businesspeople they studied might be called "successful psychopaths." In contrast, the criminals -- the "unsuccessful psychopaths" -- were more impulsive and physically aggressive.

The Factor 1 psychopathic traits seem like the playbook of many corporate power brokers through the decades. Manipulative? Louis B. Mayer was said to be a better actor than any of the stars he employed at MGM, able to turn on the tears at will to evoke sympathy during salary negotiations with his actors. Callous? Henry Ford hired thugs to crush union organizers, deployed machine guns at his plants, and stockpiled tear gas. He cheated on his wife with his teenage personal assistant and then had the younger woman marry his chauffeur as a cover. Lacking empathy? Hotel magnate Leona Helmsley shouted profanities at and summarily fired hundreds of employees allegedly for trivialities, like a maid missing a piece of lint. Remorseless? Soon after Martin Davis ascended to the top position at Gulf & Western, a visitor asked why half the offices were empty on the top floor of the company's Manhattan skyscraper. "Those were my enemies," Davis said. "I got rid of them." Deceitful? Oil baron Armand Hammer laundered money to pay for Soviet espionage. Grandiosity? Thy name is Trump.

In the most recent wave of scandals, Enron's Fastow displayed many of the corporate psychopath's traits. He pressured his bosses for a promotion to CFO even though he had a shaky grasp of the position's basic responsibilities, such as accounting and treasury operations. Suffering delusions of grandeur after just a little time on the job, Fastow ordered Enron's PR people to lobby CFO magazine to make him its CFO of the Year. But Fastow's master manipulation was a scheme to loot Enron. He set up separate partnerships, secretly run by himself, to engage in deals with Enron. The deals quickly made tens of millions of dollars for Fastow -- and prettified Enron's financials in the short run by taking unwanted assets off its books. But they left Enron with time bombs that would ultimately cause the company's total implosion -- and lose shareholders billions. When Enron's scandals were exposed, Fastow pleaded guilty to securities fraud and agreed to pay back nearly $24 million and serve 10 years in prison.

"Chainsaw" Al Dunlap might score impressively on the corporate Psychopathy Checklist too. What do you say about a guy who didn't attend his own parents' funerals? He allegedly threatened his first wife with guns and knives. She charged that he left her with no food and no access to their money while he was away for days. His divorce was granted on grounds of "extreme cruelty." That's the characteristic that endeared him to Wall Street, which applauded when he fired 11,000 workers at Scott Paper, then another 6,000 (half the labor force) at Sunbeam. Chainsaw hurled a chair at his human-resources chief, the very man who approved the handgun and bulletproof vest on his expense report. Dunlap needed the protection because so many people despised him. His plant closings kept up his reputation for ruthlessness but made no sense economically, and Sunbeam's financial gains were really the result of Dunlap's alleged book cooking. When he was finally exposed and booted, Dunlap had the nerve to demand severance pay and insist that the board reprice his stock options. Talk about failure to accept responsibility for one's own actions.

While knaves such as Fastow and Dunlap make the headlines, most horror stories of workplace psychopathy remain the stuff of frightened whispers. Insiders in the New York media business say the publisher of one of the nation's most famous magazines broke the nose of one of his female sales reps in the 1990s. But he was considered so valuable to the organization that the incident didn't impede his career.

Most criminals -- whether psychopathic or not -- are shaped by poverty and often childhood abuse as well. In contrast, corporate psychopaths typically grew up in stable, loving families that were middle class or affluent. But because they're pathological liars, they tell romanticized tales of rising from tough, impoverished backgrounds. Dunlap pretended that he grew up as the son of a laid-off dockworker; in truth, his father worked steadily and raised his family in suburban comfort. The corporate psychopaths whom Babiak studied all went to college, and a couple even had PhDs. Their ruthless pursuit of self-interest was more easily accomplished in the white-collar realm, which their backgrounds had groomed them for, rather than the criminal one, which comes with much lousier odds.

Psychopaths succeed in conventional society in large measure because few of us grasp that they are fundamentally different from ourselves. We assume that they, too, care about other people's feelings. This makes it easier for them to "play" us. Although they lack empathy, they develop an actor's expertise in evoking ours. While they don't care about us, "they have an element of emotional intelligence, of being able to see our emotions very clearly and manipulate them," says Michael Maccoby, a psychotherapist who has consulted for major corporations.

Psychopaths are typically very likable. They make us believe that they reciprocate our loyalty and friendship. When we realize that they were conning us all along, we feel betrayed and foolish. "People see sociopathy in their personal lives, and they don't have a clue that it has a label or that others have encountered it," says Martha Stout, a psychologist at the Harvard Medical School and the author of the recent best-seller The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us (Broadway Books, 2005). "It makes them feel crazy or alone. It goes against our intuition that a small percentage of people can be so different from the rest of us -- and so evil. Good people don't want to believe it."

Of course, cynics might say that it can be an advantage to lack a conscience. That's probably why major investors installed Dunlap as the CEO of Sunbeam: He had no qualms about decimating the workforce to impress Wall Street. One reason outside executives get brought into troubled companies is that they lack the emotional stake in either the enterprise or its people. It's easier for them to act callously and remorselessly, which is exactly what their backers want. The obvious danger of the new B-Scan test for psychopathic tendencies is that companies will hire or promote people with high scores rather than screen them out. Even Babiak, the test's codeveloper, says that while "a high score is a red flag, sometimes middle scores are okay. Perhaps you don't want the most honest and upfront salesman."

Indeed, not every aberrant boss is necessarily a corporate psychopath. There's another personality that's often found in the executive suite: the narcissist. While many psychologists would call narcissism a disorder, this trait can be quite beneficial for top bosses, and it's certainly less pathological than psychopathy. Maccoby's book The Productive Narcissist: The Promise and Perils of Visionary Leadership (Broadway Books, 2003) portrays the narcissistic CEO as a grandiose egotist who is on a mission to help humanity in the abstract even though he's often insensitive to the real people around him. Maccoby counts Apple's Steve Jobs, General Electric's Jack Welch, Intel's Andy Grove, Microsoft's Bill Gates, and Southwest Airlines' Herb Kelleher as "productive narcissists," or PNs. Narcissists are visionaries who attract hordes of followers, which can make them excel as innovators, but they're poor listeners and they can be awfully touchy about criticism. "These people don't have much empathy," Maccoby says. "When Bill Gates tells someone, 'That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard,' or Steve Jobs calls someone a bozo, they're not concerned about people's feelings. They see other people as a means toward their ends. But they do have a sense of changing the world -- in their eyes, improving the world. They build their own view of what the world should be and get others recruited to their vision. Psychopaths, in contrast, are only interested in self."

Maccoby concedes that productive narcissists can become "drunk with power" and turn destructive. The trick, he thinks, is to pair a productive narcissist with a "productive obsessive," or conscientious, control-minded manager. Think of Grove when he was matched with chief operating officer Craig Barrett, Gates with president Steve Ballmer, Kelleher with COO Colleen Barrett, and Oracle's Larry Ellison with COO Ray Lane and CFO Jeff Henley. In his remarkably successful second tour of duty at Apple, Jobs has been balanced by steady, competent behind-the-scenes players such as Timothy Cook, his executive vice president for sales and operations.

But our culture's embrace of narcissism as the hallmark of admired business leaders is dangerous, Babiak maintains, since "individuals who are really psychopaths are often mistaken for narcissists and chosen by the organization for leadership positions." How does he distinguish the difference between the two types? "In the case of a narcissist, everything is me, me, me," Babiak explains. "With a psychopath, it's 'Is it thrilling, is it a game I can win, and does it hurt others?' My belief is a psychopath enjoys hurting others."

Intriguingly, Babiak believes that it's extremely unlikely for an entrepreneurial founder-CEO to be a corporate psychopath because the company is an extension of his own ego -- something he promotes rather than plunders. "The psychopath has no allegiance to the company at all, just to self," Babiak says. "A psychopath is playing a short-term parasitic game." That was the profile of Fastow and Dunlap -- guys out to profit for themselves without any concern for the companies and lives they were wrecking. In contrast, Jobs and Ellison want their own companies to thrive forever -- indeed, to dominate their industries and take over other fields as well. "An entrepreneurial founder-CEO might have a narcissistic tendency that looks like psychopathy," Babiak says. "But they have a vested interest: Their identity is wrapped up with the company's existence. They're loyal to the company." So these types are ruthless not only for themselves but also for their companies, their extensions of self.

The issue is whether we will continue to elevate, celebrate, and reward so many executives who, however charismatic, remain indifferent to hurting other people. Babiak says that while the first line of defense against psychopaths in the workplace is screening job candidates, the second line is a "culture of openness and trust, especially when the company is undergoing intense, chaotic change."

Europe is far ahead of the United States in trying to deal with psychological abuse and manipulation at work. The "antibullying" movement in Europe has produced new laws in France and Sweden. Harvard's Stout suggests that the relentlessly individualistic culture of the United States contributes a lot to our problems. She points out that psychopathy has a dramatically lower incidence in certain Asian cultures, where the heritage has emphasized community bonds rather than glorified self-interest. "If we continue to go this way in our Western culture," she says, "evolutionarily speaking, it doesn't end well."

The good news is that we can do something about corporate psychopaths. Scientific consensus says that only about 50% of personality is influenced by genetics, so psychopaths are molded by our culture just as much as they are born among us. But unless American business makes a dramatic shift, we'll get more Enrons -- and deserve them.

Alan Deutschman is a Fast Company senior writer based in San Francisco."

Conclusion: The Inmates are running the Asylum. The Republican Party is the party of catering to business, worshiping business and exalting business leaders are infallible gods. The Republican Party honors psychopaths, is run by people who cater to psychopaths. Perhaps Republican political philosophy is a form of mental illness?

Maybe that's why they don't care about the suffering of people with no health insurance. Maybe that's why they worry about the poor getting a break. Of course, most Republicans are ordinary people, and not psychopaths. But many Republicans are enablers of psychopaths. Evil exists for two reasons: There is evil in the world. It is real. And the second reason is that some people allow evil to thrive, because they are don't stop it. These are the enablers of psychopaths, you know, like prominent Germans who quietly supported Hitler, but weren't necessarily Nazis themselves. In my opinion, enablers of psychopaths are weak, immoral people who rationalize their insensitivity and bad behavior in any way they can, including using rationalization, or even religious ideas.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

I'm sure other people have other ideas.

-- March 30, 2010 1:16 PM


Rob N. wrote:

Sara/Anonymous,

I can assure you that I am not Iranian nor am I part of a sleeper cell; I do believe what I wrote. AmeriKa has interfered in the middle east for too long and a defeat in both Iraq and Afghanistan would serve to teach AmeriKa a lesson we failed to learn in Vietnam. An indegionous people will not simply roll over and allow their country to be invaded, occupied, and hte natural resources stolen by imperialistic hoard from the West.

Poland, Belgium, and Holland allowed Adolf Hitler to invade their countries without a response to his invading armies. Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan stand as the antithesis to the afore mentioned countries. AmeriKa will fail in its imperialistic quest of the middle east like we failed in Vietnam.

A Sadr/Iranian influenced Iraq will have a greater chance in bringing stability to the region rather than AmeriKa. For too many years AmeriKa has attempted to shape events in the middle east and a loss of Iraq and a loss in Afghanistan communicates to me that these people do not want what AmeriKa is attempting to sell them. Let's remember some of AmeriKa's foreign policy debacles in the middle east:

1. The installation of the Shah of Iran- result: Student Revolution in 1978. (Failure)

2. Iran/Iraq war- result: failure. The U.S. were funding both the Iraqi's and Iranians; the war ended in a stalemate

3. Ronald Regan and Iraq- result: failure. Ronald Regan supplied Saddam Hussein with the nerve gas and toxins he used on the Kurds.

4. Israel/Egypt- result: failure. The meaningless and non-binding Camp David accord.

To be fair and balanced let us examine the successes of the United States in the middle east:

1. Russian Invasion of Afghanistan- result: success. Our propaganda machine painted the Afghais as freedom fighters. The term Mujihadeen was introduced. The Russians withdrew. The same propaganda machine changed the name from Mujihadeen to Taliban making them evil because it is now our turn to invade Afghanistan. Even with the puppet regime of Karzai AmeriKa will not win there.

2. U.S. domination over Lybia during the Regan administration- result: success. Sadly, America like a school yard bully picks on an opponent it knows it can defeat. This is the strategy employed by Mr. Regan in attacking Lybia.


The foreign policy of this nation has been inherently wrong in the middle east for the last 50 years. The U.S. has spent its time in the middle east waging wars on false premises and bad intelligence; even King George W. Bush II admitted to bad intelligence on Iraq. He had to admit to it because he was caught with his pants down and like a little boy he attempted to blame someone else.

When it comes to our scandalous policies in the middle east it makes me proud to be an Amerikan doesn't it you?

Thanks,

Rob N.

-- March 30, 2010 5:51 PM


Sara wrote:

Conclusion: The Inmates are running the Asylum.

I, of course, object to your conclusion as I feel it is based on false premises. The idea you put forward is that the VAST majority of people in business are psychopaths.. "The Inmates" you state are "running the Asylum." That simply is not true. The analysis in the article you posted is about how society in general rewards people with aggressive personalities to get the job done in business, and, it is said, business sometimes makes the seeking of profit or the bottom line to dictate in business, without regard to morality, allowing in some people who have no conscience. The article itself starts by saying such "conscienceless" people are in the tiny minority QUOTE: -- "the 1% of the general population that isn't burdened by conscience" as the article points out - and they tend to make spectacular headlines, as the "scandals" referred to throughout the article attest. But I might point out to you that those are the few, not the many. They are not the ones running the entire corporate world and they are the exceptions to the rule.. not the rule itself. We are talking criminal behavior and spectacular feats of ultimately self defeating behaviors in what is only one percent of the population. So your entire premise, that those on Wall Street are ALL a bunch of criminals with not a shred of morality among them.. is proven false by this one statistic, that ONE PERCENT of the population are these "INMATES" you propose are "running" the entire US business enterprise system. It would be disproportionate if the entire ONE PERCENT all ended up in business, and even then, that they all run the fortune 500+ companies. It is simply not true - a patently false premise.

Beyond that, this "screening" for ONE PERCENT of the population may seem like a good idea.. but one has to wonder how much of a witch hunt it will be and the ultimate invasion of privacy issues which should be raised when people are being screened for truly criminal behavior. Like medical diagnostic tests, one has wonder how many false "positives" are out there, and whose lives are ruined by it, since the results seem to be "leaning" towards the conclusion that all who take it are indeed criminals (see below). I wonder if there is a Constitutional right not to be tested for something this truly weird.. or if we have long ago given up the right to be poked and prodded like rats in a lab sample simply because someone found some criminal behavior among a certain group of people and so created a test for it? The "Sound like anyone you know?" I found to be really objectionable.. like, we are all supposed to know a ton of psychopaths.. that slim 1% of the population? Uh, why? Unless it is demonizing an entire subset of aggression which is the nature of business, and not just the truly criminal? And that appears to be the truth here, a leaning towards a misdiagnosis of criminal behavior.. for instance, did even ONE person test normal in this sample?

QUOTE: "psychologists Belinda Board and Katarina Fritzon at the University of Surrey, who interviewed and gave personality tests to gave personality tests to 39 high-level British executives and compared their profiles with those of criminals and psychiatric patients. The executives were even more likely to be superficially charming, egocentric, insincere, and manipulative, and just as likely to be grandiose, exploitative, and lacking in empathy. Board and Fritzon concluded that the businesspeople they studied might be called "successful psychopaths."

Whoa! Either they took an entire subset of the 1% OR they are creating a false subset. If they are testing for what SHOULD BE only ONE PERCENT of the population.. why are all 39 testing positive, and even more so than the criminals? THE EXECUTIVES were MORE likely than the criminals to be psychopaths.. to me, this says the test is LOOKING to make people look psychopathic, not that they are. What is the likelihood of finding 39 people who are ALL from the same criminal one percent of the population? The sample is very suspect in my mind.. and perhaps it should be noted that the man who made these tests is going to make money by selling them, strange as that may seem. It does behoove him to find larger and larger amounts of people who need to be diagnosed, or no one will buy the tests from him. Perhaps he has learned to scam the system for his own benefit, here, if this is the kind of "science" this produces.

When it says, quote, "these organizational shake-ups created a welcoming environment for the corporate killer." and "you can make a compelling case that the New Economy, with its rule-breaking and roller-coaster results, is just dandy for folks with psychopathic traits too." I also again wonder about the lucrativeness of these tests and the bottom line of those selling them. I have to wonder how much attention this one percent of the population merits.. and if we aren't going on a witch hunt which will ferret out, not the one percent, but a lot of other folks, too.. perhaps as a result of the desire of some to sell tests? The article also states, "Most criminals -- whether psychopathic or not -- are shaped by poverty and often childhood abuse as well." That being the case, why don't we screen for poor people and not allow them to be in corporate positions? That is just as ludicrous as the idea that we need to screen everyone - all the law abiding people - to get the few who are not. It is wrong, either way you do it - targeting the poor man, or the law abiding and forcing him into a "test" to prove he is not a part of the criminal one percent. (Again, it appears that ALL 39 people who took the test came out with positives.. still want to write this test yourself?) This appears to project the presumption of guilt instead of innocence and to intrude into the private lives of people in order to study them to see if they are criminal in behavior. I am unsure that either of those are worthy ends to be seeking in a free society.

Your second statement I take issue with, "The Republican Party honors psychopaths, is run by people who cater to psychopaths." That is also so patently false and untenable - so that it is almost not worth replying to. However, I will. Since the Republican Party does not DIShonor the business community, the Democrats you contrast against them must therefore obviously do so (dishonor the "psychopaths" or business community). The twisted assumption you make is that all people running business are psychopaths - your "The Inmates are running the Asylum" - so then anyone who does not similarly dishonor the business community, is culpable in helping these "inmates of the asylum" and so they also are helping criminal activity or evil, too. It is your witch hunt against all business people as psychopaths which is the true disservice, not only to economy, but to individual rights... and freedom from slander, which this last statement is. That is so because once you demonize the entire business community as "psychopaths" you then say anyone "honoring" the business community is therefore also evil and facilitators of criminal behavior.. from a subset of ONE PERCENT of the population! What gall you have - not to mention poor scientific methodology, I must say.

As for your fixation with religion and constant affixing of it to politics, can we separate the state from religion, please? Instead of saying, "The Republican Party is the party of catering to business, worshiping business and exalting business leaders are infallible gods." why not just admit the obvious - that the Republican Party does allow business to conduct itself and prosper.. and the other party (Democrats) will demonize them as psychopaths and thwart them, then take over their industries, as Obama is doing? It isn't "worship" but mere respect for others, their property and their rights to make a living - something socialists and communists do not understand. As for calling business leaders "infallible gods" - it is irresponsible in the extreme to equate a man seeking to make an honest living with a person standing in a temple with incense in his hand making an offering to infallible deity. It is also incorrect, as anyone with an ounce of common sense will instinctively know.

You charge Republicans with being "enablers of psychopaths" and allowing "evil to thrive, because they are don't stop it" - like with Hitler. I can tell you now that those who went to the gas chambers in Germany because they protested Hitler were not only leftwing.. they were also rightwing. Charging an entire group of people with evil like that only shows the smallness of the mind making the accusations, not the reality of the entire group you spew your hatred at.

You say, "In my opinion, enablers of psychopaths are weak, immoral people who rationalize their insensitivity and bad behavior in any way they can, including using rationalization, or even religious ideas."

It is truly just an opinion.. but also one provably false by the example you used. You say that Republicans are all "weak, immoral people" and that they all rationalize their insensitivity.. again.. even using "religious ideas" because you champion those who are not this, I presume? Meaning, you believe yourself (Democrats, Progressives, as you have described yourself on here to be) to be strong, moral and irreligious, and so not subject to enabling "evil to thrive because they don't stop it" - yet, that describes perfectly the very people who enabled Hitler. The enablers of Hitler were those who were NOT religious and believed in survival of the fittest (evolution) taken to an extreme. They honored no god, and believed themselves to be the ultimate incarnation of the highest creatures on earth - the master race. It was this IMMORAL and godless subset of human beings, beings whose beliefs I think you would find much the same as yourself, who decried the religious and the strictures it put upon them, demonizing those who had religious faith - such as the Jews and their Judaism. And we all know where that led to.. the gas chambers for those with faith and a religious MORALITY. Those irreligious people allowed evil to thrive simply because they did not see what evil was.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

You said, "Maybe that's why they don't care about the suffering of people with no health insurance."

As for not caring for the poor.. the CHURCHES have historically been those who took care of them.. look at Mother Theresa. It is a different approach that you have, seeing Big Government as the one who should care for the suffering and poor, not works of charity. You are a supporter of the "welfare state." Thomas Sowell, a libertarian Black conservative, wrote concerning the welfare state and its work with the poor black community, and I believe it is applicable to all poverty and suffering and answers this charge,
QUOTE:

1) Government action is too often perceived as beneficial, just and noble, when in fact it often hurts those it is purportedly trying to help.

As far back as 1975's Race and Economics[30] and continuing through his Affirmative Action Around The World and Basic and Applied Economics series, Sowell repeatedly shows that much government action in the social and economic arena has not only failed to achieve desired or claimed results but in many cases has created worse conditions than those previously existing.[31] Examples given to bolster Sowell's arguments range from rent control (which decreases the supply of housing), to busing for racial balance (schools in some areas under busing are just as segregated or worse than before), to crime control, to zoning laws, to education. Sowell also takes strong issue with the notion of government as a helper or savior of minorities, arguing that the historical record shows quite the opposite - from the lower level Jim Crow laws created and enforced by state and local regimes, to welfare subsidies at the federal level that have promoted family dependency and breakdown. Sowell draws upon a mass of historical data to question both the priorities and logic of those who call for even more government intervention and spending to 'solve' the problems of minorities.[32]

2) On several measures, black progress was much more positive prior to the significant rise of the welfare state, and prior to the era of affirmative action.

Another of Sowell's themes is to show the painful but steady rise of blacks in the US against heavy odds before massive intervention by government programs, a rise that contradicts some popular assumptions. He demonstrates that several so-called 'black' problems occurred to a lesser degree before the widespread implementation of the welfare state era in the 1970s. In Affirmative Action Around the World (2004)[33] and Civil Rights[34] Sowell demonstrates that on several measures, black progress was actually better in earlier times, than in the contemporary era. In the decades immediately after the Civil War for example, blacks posted higher employment rates and lower divorce rates than whites. As regards family stability and out-of-wedlock births, black rates prior to WWII were hardly perfect, but were still far lower than the 70% out-of-wedlock births afflicting the black community at the beginning of the 21st century.

3) Systemic processes mated to the common wisdom and practical action of the ordinary people are superior to the grandiose presumptions of intellectual, political and bureaucratic elites.

In several works, such as Knowledge and Decisions, A Conflict of Visions and The Economics and Politics of Race, Sowell stresses the importance of systemic processes like free markets, the rule of law and constitutional government. Such systemic processes are orderly, structured and sequential. They are not perfect, nor can they be, since humans themselves are flawed. Instead, on the balance, they provide the best framework whereby imperfect humans, can achieve large measures of freedom in not only the political sphere but the economic one as well. Such processes are continually refined and improved incrementally over time. Improvements over time to common law judicial systems like that of the United States for example, did not quickly come about by sweeping decrees from those with allegedly superior wisdom, but by a long, painful process extending back to the Magna Carta and beyond. Likewise US blacks pulled themselves from poverty not because of government programs or policies, but often in spite of government, largely using the processes of free markets. Blacks broke segregation in many white neighborhoods for example, not because of the goodness of the government or the goodwill of whites, but because their combined dollars outbid or induced even racist whites to sell them property in 'reserved' areas.

On the balance Sowell maintains, systemic processes are superior to the dictates or condescension of those on high, who presume to know better than ordinary people. A product of the hard-scrabble streets himself, Sowell also stresses the practical action and wisdom of the broad masses within those methodical frameworks, versus the presumptions, confiscations and social engineering of elites. The ordinary masses deserve freedom as much as "their betters." Such elites he argues, are only too ready to claim freedom for their own trendy notions and self-aggrandizing profit, while denying similar freedom to the small man on the street to manage his own resources and make his own decisions. A deep skepticism towards intellectual and bureaucratic elites runs through much of Sowell's work. This is perhaps summed up best at the end of Knowledge and Decisions (1983):

Historically, freedom is a rare and tragic thing. It has emerged out of the stalemates of would-be oppressors. Freedom has cost the blood of millions in obscure places and historic sites ranging from Gettysburg to the Gulag Archipelago. That something that cost so much in human lives should be surrendered piecemeal in exchange for [trendy] visions or rhetoric seems grotesque. Freedom is not simply the right of intellectuals to circulate their merchandise. It is, above all, the right of ordinary people to find elbow room for themselves and a refuge from the rampaging presumptions of their 'betters.'"[40]

It is worth noting that, quote, "Sowell's book Race and Economics greatly influenced Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Thomas read the book in 1975, and later said that the book changed his life.[41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

Sara.

-- March 30, 2010 7:01 PM


Roger wrote:

Rob N.

Imperial thoughts and belief systems , like yours are built on a few statements held to be true.

While most logical people have a vast sea of dots to connect, they can evaluate, re-evaluate, choose and discard.

An imperial thought or belief system in itself is not wrong if there is a wealth of dots to connect, and the truths in itself are easily proved.

Many religious or phiolsophical arguments, that are holding water, is presented from that stand point.

However, Rob N. when there is only a few dots, and they contradict other reality bubbles, and those dots are held in holiness, the whole standpoint are turning from an argument, to stuff you find in comic strips.( Rob N, if this sentence was too complex,....and I am sure it just floated by your eyes.... just read it again)

The type of holy truths you are basing everyting on is stuff like:

Mormons are evil
Presidents of the US are all making millions in oil.
US is set up by secret societies to concuer the world.
US by it's presence anywhere will supress people.

Shit like that, ...all your reasoning is based on ....-"the Fluor they put in the water is a Communist plot" ....type argument.

With all those few pillars of "truth" that you have set up, ( and hold holy....they can't be wrong)...you are then basing long and comical explanations of how things work upon that.

Let put it this way Rob N. If everybody in the crowd can spot the asshole, but you can't spot him....then....You're the asshole.


-- March 30, 2010 7:15 PM


Sara wrote:

Well said, Roger! Thank you. :)

While I am glad to hear from RobN that he is not Iranian nor part of a sleeper cel, I am puzzled by his speaking of the "Imperialist quest" of America in the Middle East when America is leaving and letting the Iraqis take over their own affairs. The people seem pleased to be able to elect their own government and though the Iraqis are imperfect, I still think they are better off determining their own fate in elections rather than under the thumb of a theocracy which suppresses its people and their free will as Iran does. It is not a comparison to equate Hitler taking over countries and occupying them with Iraq where the US presence will be virtually non-existent shortly. The Polish did not pull down statues of their leaders and truly thank those invading for doing so, calling them liberators. I see no "Imperialistic Quest" as RobN does, nor any people "rolling over and allowing their country" to be stolen from them. They have gone from a dictatorship to steering their own course as they will. The Iraqis are in control of their own resources and like any other sovereign nation will sell their resources and their development to whom they will.. and have. The US does not appear to be faring very well in the oil auctions.. how can RobN explain that in view of his idea of American conquest? But I think you must be right when you state he has a few truths he thinks are self-evident and unassailably true which somehow escape the rest of us. How is it that the Iraqi people are not thinking at all the way RobN sees it? I was reading their opinions today on the elections, diverse, but definitely not running to the conspiracy theories RobN is into.

I liked this young lady's cautiously optimistic view, QUOTE:

Afaf, 21, Baghdad

Before the poll, Afaf had said she was too disillusioned to vote.

I don't know if there was corruption or not, but the delay in announcing the final results makes us suspicious. Election fraud doesn't necessarily happen on the day of polling itself.

It seems the elections went off normally, despite threats of violence. I was surprised at the high turnout, so many more Iraqis voted than in previous years.

I had wanted Iyad Allawi to win because he seems more democratic.

It was as if people woke up from a long sleep and decided to do something for their country.

Competition was intense between Mr Allawi and Mr Maliki - and the result was a shock.

I had wanted Mr Allawi to win because he seems more democratic and we want change. So I'm really satisfied with the result.

But I do fear what will happen next. I'm afraid Iraq will be driven towards civil collapse or a regional war. Other people are more optimistic, believing Iraq can be rebuilt.

There must be a coalition, but it won't be satisfactory for either party, because each has its own goals. Even if a coalition is achieved, the battle for power and position will continue.

The most important thing is that even if it didn't go totally to plan, terrorist attacks failed to stop the steady stream of Iraqis voting. We are still here, still strong, nothing can stop us.

==end quote==

Sara.

-- March 30, 2010 11:42 PM


Willy Loman wrote:

Sara, it can take far less than 1% of any population to cause problems. You could fit Al Queda into a football locker room. You ever heard the expression, "Too big to fail"?....it means Wall Street has too much power concentrated in a few hands, and too much of the economy is linked into the decisions of those few people. So, of course you are wrong, it doesn't take a lot of people to bring down an economy....It took 19 half educated Arabs, with twenty bucks worth of utility knives, to take down a couple airplanes, and two of the largest buildings in the world, which led to the war in Iraq. Numbers don't always impress me.

So, if you get a few psychos in the right places in Wall Street, they can bring down the economy, as they almost did.

In Germany, another single psychopath, named Adolf, caused enough problems that 50 million people ended up dead.

So, of course you are wrong again. Nothing new there. It doesn't take a lot of crazy people to do a lot of harm.

You should watch the movie The Corporation. It's free online, probably You Tube. Open your mind up a bit. Corporations are not always evil, but they sure can be. No wonder they attract successful psychopaths.

Sara said: "As for your fixation with religion and constant affixing of it to politics"....can you even count, Sara? I've read this blog for a while, and if I had a dollar for every time you talked about religion and politics in the same breath, I'd retire to Tahiti.

Oh, by the way, I do believe in God, maybe not the same version as you, so you can save for slander about people like me lining up Jews for Gas Chambers. I have Jewish relatives, so your comments disgust me. Nothing too low for you, making slanderous generalizations about someone you have never met.

You are too much of a corporate suck up, and a suck up for religion too. You never say a bad word about either. That tells me your mind is unbalanced, and downright warped, because I would need the world's biggest dump truck to contain every book or article written about corporate or religious malfeasance. Boy, are you naive. Never met a corporation executive whose butt you wouldn't kiss, right?

Although I believe in God, a lot of religion I have a problem with. Like, for instance, the most influential Christian in the world, the current Pope, who was a Nazi in his youth, is now an enabler of pedophiles, and covers up for them. It's currently in the news. The Catholic Church, which is half of Christianity, is little more than a world wide pedophile club, for sexually repressed homosexuals. I don't know what denomination you are, but if hard core Christians like you want a bit more respect in the world, you might want to stop Catholic priests, who tell the world they are good Christians all, you "Good Christians", might want to stop your religious leaders from raping tens of thousands of children....but no doubt, hundreds of millions of Christian Catholics are too cowered by the authoritarian, fear mongering version of Christianity that you seem to subscribe to, with it's sucking up to paternal powers that be, that Christians who think like you enable this horrible evil, among others.... Oh, by the way, Adolf Hitler was a good Christian, and a good Catholic....that fact doesn't seem to have helped the Jews from getting their skins pealed, and made into lampshades, at Auschwitz.

I suppose you believe, if Hitler mumbled the right phrases, at the end of his life, he went to heaven, all all his sins, all 50 million of them, would be instantly forgiven?

-- March 31, 2010 12:47 AM


Willy wrote:

Well, on the news tonite, the head of the Republican Party, Mike Steele, was caught using donated money, to go to Lesbian Bondage Sex Strip Clubs, called The Voyeur, where women engaged in simulated sex. On the club's website, it bills itself as "A destination for provocative revelry that combines eroticism and nightlife exclusivity"...In February alone, He spent seventeen thousand on private jets, and fifteen thousand on limosines...Gee, I thought the Republicans were all about Little House on the Prairie, and family values......

Have you ever donated money to the Republican Party, Sara? How do you feel about your money being used to pay for Republican men to watch topless women have sex with each other?

-- March 31, 2010 2:27 AM


Bob Dylan wrote:

Democracy don't rule the world, You'd better get that in your head; This world is ruled by violence, But I guess that's better left unsaid.

Money doesn't talk, it swears.

People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent.

I like America, just as everybody else does. I love America, I gotta say that. But America will be judged.

This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway.

-- March 31, 2010 10:22 AM


Bob Dylan wrote:

Democracy don't rule the world, You'd better get that in your head; This world is ruled by violence, But I guess that's better left unsaid.

Money doesn't talk, it swears.

People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent.

I like America, just as everybody else does. I love America, I gotta say that. But America will be judged.

This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway.

-- March 31, 2010 10:23 AM


Bob Dylan wrote:

Rob N, quit tryin to hold on to things. You can't hold on to nuthin in this world. The Big Bad Wolf is gunna huff and puff and blowwwwwwww your house in. When you are dead, who will you blame????????...just enjoy life.....Everything changes, and time goes on. America is good or bad, there are good and bad Mormons, some people have too much power, then it's taken away. One day you're up, the next day your down. Everybody gets their turn to be an asshole, even America even Iran, even people that quote the Bible, even people that don't quote the Bible, even people that tell you you're an asshole, they get their turn to be an asshole eventually.

Like I said, The Answer is blowing in the Wind.......................

-- March 31, 2010 11:00 AM


Chris wrote:

Im sorry guys........lol
We are hear at school laughing our asses off. Sara, you make earning a PhD worth it...... You are out of your mind "NUTS".Please keep it up, the guys in the white coats will be their soon.

Chris

-- March 31, 2010 2:14 PM


Sara wrote:

STUPID. BRAINWASHED. COLLEGE. KIDS.

-- March 31, 2010 3:55 PM


Sara wrote:

Rasmussen: 63% Say Likely The Next President Will Be a Republican, 46% "Very Likely"
Wednesday, March 31, 2010
Posted by HotAirPundit

Rasmussen video report here:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/most_recent_videos2/46_say_very_likely_next_president_will_be_republican

Up 15 points from the beginning of the year

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/rasmussen-63-say-likely-next-president.html

-- March 31, 2010 4:05 PM


Sara wrote:

Not that facts ever got in the way of your trying to score points, but it should be noted for those not given to frenetic behavior:

===

Report: RNC event at “bondage-themed club” was after-party for young donors; Update: RNC issues statement
posted at 6:54 pm on March 29, 2010 by Allahpundit

RNC employees were, allegedly, in attendance but the chairman himself was not, so looks like Steele will escape this particular 40-car PR pile-up.
Quote:

The O.C. connection? As the Daily Caller story in that second link shows, DMI President and Gen Next member, Erik Brown, was who picked up that tab and ended up expensing it to the RNC.

According to sources who were in attendance that night, the “official” part of the evening started with 50+ person dinner at the Beverly Hills Hotel, then carried on throughout the evening, eventually ending up at Voyeur. While RNC employees, who were in town to recruit members to its “RNC Young Eagles” program, did participate throughout the entire evening and did find their way to the bondage-themed club, Michael Steele himself was “not in attendance” for any portion of the evening. Brown, by the way, is reportedly a “Young Eagle” himself, a fundraising sub-group of the RNC which targets larger donors based on age group.

Presumably, the Daily Caller (which broke this whole story on its website earlier today) is continuing to pour through RNC disclosure documents. If so, it will likely find significant sums spent by the RNC on services rendered by DMI…

===end quote==

So it was related to business, and for all we know might even have netted the RNC some cash. The libertarian angel on my shoulder is telling me to shrug it off and remind people that not everyone in the party is a social con — lesbian bondage fans have rights, too! — but that’s not really the issue. The real issue, I dare say, is that if you’re going to risk media ... and the antagonism of a huge chunk of your base by conducting official business in some sort of S&M theme restaurant, use. your own. money.

Exit question: How much will this glorious chapter in the Steele chairmanship cost the RNC in lost donations? I’m afraid to even attempt an over/under.

Update: Hot off the presses from the RNC.
Quote:

At the outset, Chairman Steele was not at Voyeur West Hollywood. He had no knowledge of the expenditure, nor does he find the use of committee funds at such a location acceptable. While some in the press have suggested Chairman Steele was at the venue, he was not and no proof has been offered that he was. When the expense was incurred, Chairman Steele was on United flight # 0084, returning from the RNC Winter Meeting.

Upon finding out of the expenditure this morning, Chairman Steele demanded the committee get to the bottom of this matter immediately.

The committee has taken appropriate steps to address the issues relating to the reimbursement of certain expenses. First, as reported, the expenditure in question will be recouped by the RNC. Second, appropriate personnel actions have been taken and accounting and reimbursement processes are being revised to ensure that such an action cannot reoccur. We recognize the difficulty this incident has caused and assure our members and supporters that any necessary and proper remediation is being implemented immediately.

It is unfortunate that a loyal GOP donor who has recruited other donors became involved in this incident while merely trying to help what turned out to be the improper request of a staffer who is no longer with the committee.

===end quote==

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/29/report-rnc-event-at-bondage-themed-club-was-after-party-for-young-donors/

Just saying it isn't as you sensationalized it to be.

Sara.

-- March 31, 2010 4:28 PM


Sara wrote:

Glad you youngsters will be footing the bills soon.
It might help you learn responsibility and grow up.. learn about the real world.. after you get a real job, that is.

===

Health premiums could rise 17 pct for young adults
By CARLA K. JOHNSON (AP) –

CHICAGO — Health insurance premiums for young adults are expected to rise about 17 percent once they're required to buy insurance four years from now. That estimate is from an analysis by Rand Health.

Young people will need to carry more of the burden of health care under the new health overhaul law. The new law limits an industry practice of charging older customers more.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hLAMW_KTqY_JVMQF-gNn3O0_uUcQD9EOGMT03

-- March 31, 2010 4:53 PM


Sara wrote:

This IS good news for the Dinar and RV.. with Dinar built on a good hydrocarbon law.
With Allawi in it won't take them long.. because all Maliki ever did was stall.
As I said before, Maliki was ideologically opposed to Revalue of the Dinar, Allawi never has been.
It will mean prosperity for Iraq's people.

===

INTERVIEW - Iraq oil law a priority - PM hopeful Allawi
Khalid al-Ansary and Jim Loney
REUTERS - Mar 31, 2010

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said on Wednesday he would honour deals signed with global oil majors in recent months and would move quickly to pass a new hydrocarbons law if his bloc forms the government.

But Allawi, whose cross-sectarian Iraqiya coalition won the greatest number of seats in Iraq's March 7 parliamentary election, said the deals might need some minor adjustments and he wanted to see more competition in Iraq's energy sector.

"We are going to honour all contracts. We are going to honour all agreements because we believe this is very important," Allawi told Reuters in an interview.

Iraq awarded billions of dollars of contracts to oil majors to refurbish its dilapidated oil fields after years of neglect and war. Baghdad's goal is to expand production capacity to 12 million barrels per day (bpd) in about six years from about 2.5 mln bpd now.

The contracts could catapult Iraq into the top ranks of global producers. The nation has the world's third-largest reserves but is just the 11th largest producer.

Companies involved in the deals include U.S. major Exxon Mobil Corp; Royal Dutch Shell Plc, Europe's largest oil company; Russia's Lukoil; and China National Petroleum Corp.

Allawi lamented Iraq's lack of an oil and gas law to govern the sector and said he would move quickly to put one before parliament.

"It will definitely be a priority," Allawi said. "It won't take us long."

"STRONG RESERVATIONS"

Allawi, who led a transitional government in 2004-05, said he had "strong reservations" about the way the government headed by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki handled the contracts.

"But the agreements have been signed. We have to respect them and we have to honour them, maybe with little adjustments here and there," Allawi said.

Asked what kind of adjustments, he said he had concerns about whether the contracts were handled "with full integrity" on the Iraqi side. He also wanted to see the sector opened up to more competition.

Allawi said he would like a hydrocarbons council of experts similar to one he instituted as prime minister to oversee the sector rather than just the oil minister.

"We want to have, ultimately, the ministry as a regulator rather than an operator and the operations should be handled by the private sector and the investors," Allawi said.

"There is a lot of scope for other companies to come into Iraq. We need heavy investment."

AT LOGGERHEADS

He blamed Iraq's central government for disagreements that have hampered the development of the oil industry, including one between Baghdad and the semi-autonomous northern Kurdistan region.

The Kurdish government and Baghdad have been at loggerheads for months over oil deals Iraqi Kurdistan signed independently with foreign oil firms, which the central government says was illegal.

Oil exports were halted as the Kurdish regional government and Baghdad fought over revenue and production-sharing. The region's natural resources minister said a week ago that it was ready to start exporting oil as soon as a new central government was formed.

"There were squabbles between the central government and the regional government in Kurdistan and we lost a lot of time because of these problems and it was initiated by the central government here," Allawi said.

"We need to bring this to a halt. We need to get this (oil and gas law) very fast through the parliament."

(Editing by Sue Thomas)

http://www.insing.com/news/international-middle-east/interview-iraq-oil-law-a-priority-pm-hopeful-allawi/id-09991100?ref=RSS

With Allawi in, I think we can finally see prosperity for the average Iraqi.. and Dinar worth a real value.

Sara.

-- March 31, 2010 6:59 PM


Sara wrote:

Ostensibly shrewd.

===

Sadr bloc to hold referendum on Iraq PM choice
Moqtada al-Sadr's faction will consult ordinary Iraqis in a nationwide referendum to decide whom to back as Iraq's next prime minister, officials said.
Wednesday, 31 March 2010

Moqtada al-Sadr's faction will consult ordinary Iraqis in a nationwide referendum to decide whom to back as Iraq's next prime minister, officials said on Wednesday.

The vote will be carried out on Friday and Saturday.

A merger between Maliki's State of Law grouping and the Iraqi National Alliance, which includes the Sadr bloc, would form the largest bloc in Iraq's next parliament. The Sadr bloc oppose naming Maliki prime minister, but the State of Law insists on him returning to the job.

"The number one problem in forming the next cabinet is not only the mechanisms but also who is to be the next prime minister, and this is what we are trying to achieve," Sadr spokesman Salah al-Ubaidi told a news conference.

The referendum would follow a March 7 national legislative election. The top vote-getter was former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's cross-sectarian Iraqiya coalition, which finished with 91 seats, two ahead of State of Law.

Ubaidi said the ballots would have five names for the prime minister post -- Maliki and Mohammed Jaffar al-Sadr from State of Law, INA figures Adel Abdul-Mahdi and former Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, and Allawi.

Vote

Votes can be cast at pro-Sadr offices throughout Iraq, at mosques and with mobile party teams, he said. Millions of ballots already have been printed.

The party will accept the result, and it will help Sadrists in talks over picking the prime minister, Ubaidi said.

A strong election showing by the Sadrists' makes Sadr, who lives in neigbouring Iran, a potential kingmaker.

An alliance between State of Law and INA could push Allawi and Iraqiya to the sidelines.

The Sadrists oppose US-backed Maliki, who launched a crackdown on Sadr's Mehdi Army militia in 2008. State of Law officials said they had shown "flexibility" but he was still their only candidate.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=56309

-- March 31, 2010 7:18 PM


Sara wrote:

Quote:

"Every available objective measure tells the same story: The will of the people was expressed in the election results."

Let us hope and pray those results stand.
A lot of very good people died to bring about the result.

===

Iraq's Election Was Free and Fair
Leslie Campbell , Foreign Policy, March 31, 2010

Given the high stakes and intense competition of Iraq's parliamentary election, it is no surprise to see loud claims of victory from the contest's apparent winners and vague threats from the losers. As results show a slim victory for Ayad Allawi's Iraqiya coalition, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's voice has been the loudest. The prime minister has called for a recount, arguing that it is necessary to "protect political stability and to prevent a deterioration of the security situation" -- a statement that some have taken as a warning that violence could result if his demands are not met.

Overshadowed by horrific stories of death and sacrifice, the evolution of Iraq's political system has been a remarkable, if unheralded, achievement. Thousands of citizens' organizations have emerged -- many of them devoted to tackling social ills, cleaning up the environment, improving local communities, and protecting human rights. Unlike so many Arab countries with severe restrictions on speech and stifling Internet censorship, Iraq enjoys vigorous political debate. It is important that Iraq's progress is not reversed by those attempting to manipulate the results for their own purposes in the election's aftermath.

The March 7 election, despite sporadic problems, was genuinely competitive. Every available objective measure tells the same story: The will of the people was expressed in the election results. These results can and should form the basis for the country's governance.

The Independent High Electoral Commission (IHEC) and U.N. officials who assisted the commission, though acknowledging some problems, have strongly defended the election process, denying there were systemic shortcomings and discounting the possibility of systematic fraud. There is no reason to doubt the IHEC or the United Nations, but we don't have to take their word for it. Other major indicators, including the conclusions of independent election monitors and the results of public opinion polls, indicate that the will of the Iraqi people was accurately expressed in the balloting.

The above article was published in Foreign Policy on March 30th, 2010.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=157711

-- March 31, 2010 7:30 PM


Homer Simpson wrote:

Sara said: "STUPID. BRAINWASHED. COLLEGE. KIDS.""..................yeah, and Lisa, go clean your room and do your homework. Marge and I are paying a lota D'oh!! for your fancy Kolledge Ejucation.

-- March 31, 2010 8:39 PM


Homey Simpson wrote:

Wooo Hoooo! Go Irak!!! Make me R$ch like Mr. Burns!!

-- March 31, 2010 8:42 PM


Sara wrote:

Willy;

By the way, your comparison (again) of Hitler and other catastrophically evil people to Wall Street is again very far off the mark. But I suppose inflammatory rhetoric is the tactic you choose to use in every arena, including attacks on the Catholic Pope. While not a member of that faith nor justifying any sin therein, I do think attributing the sins of another person (his bishops, etc) to their leader is off base. And that works in the reverse, as well. For instance, just because Obama is amateurish in his conduct, lacks understanding and doesn't appear to learn, does not mean that every single one of the Democrats under him are that way, does it?

===

Lawrence Eagleburger on Obama: He’s Playing With Fire, Playing With Dynamite & Doesn’t Seem to Understand It (Video)
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Jim Hoft

“I’ve never seen anyone who is as amateurish in the conduct of his foreign relations as this president.”

Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger told Neil Cavuto that Obama is playing with fire and playing with dynamite and doesn’t learn from his mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1X3REbgpS8&feature=player_embedded

Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger:

“I’ve never seen anyone who is as amateurish in the conduct of his foreign relations as this president… It’s dumb and it’s what he’s done time and time again. He doesn’t seem to learn…”

“Netanyahu is a tough a guy. The fact of the matter is we’re showing our amateurishness every time we do this. And, this president can’t get it through his head that his actions have consequences outside what he thinks they might be…”

“He’s playing with fire here and he’s playing with dynamite and he doesn’t understand it. And, you’d think with almost two years in office he would understand it but he doesn’t.”

===

And, that’s just his foreign policy he’s talking about!

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/lawrence-eagleburger-obamas-playing-with-fire-playing-with-dynamite-doesnt-learn/

As for the Hillbillies who pay for their ungrateful brood's upbringing, aka Homer Simpson.. it won't be long until the kids can just knock those pesky parental units off with their death panels.. to "save money" they will justify it with.. if Obamacare gets its way. Of course, they will have to START with the extreme cases, like abortion was only for rape and incest.. until it becomes Death on Demand.. with the kids being the ones making the demands, of course:

N.Y. Times columnist: Death panels will save 'a lot of money'
Paul Krugman tells 'Roundtable' economists agree it's 'going to be major'
Posted: March 30, 2010
By Bob Unruh

Left-leaning New York Times economic columnist Paul Krugman says the so-called "death panels" established by President Obama's trillion-dollar nationalized health-care plan will end up saving "a lot of money" for the government.

The comments from Krugman, who also writes on the New York Times blogs, came during a discussion of "Obamacare" on the ABC News Sunday program "This Week."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aogCaGv9i78&feature=player_embedded

"People on the right, they're simultaneously screaming, 'They're going to send all the old people to death panels,' and 'It's not going to save any money,'" he said.

Another panelist interjected, "Death panels would save money," to which Krugman responded:

The advisory panel which has the ability to make more or less binding judgments on saying this particular expensive treatment actually doesn't do any good medically and so we are not going to pay for it. That is actually going to save quite a lot of money. We don't know how much yet. The CBO gives it very little credit but, but most, most of the health care economists I talk to think that's going be a really, uh a really major cost saving.

The video has been posted on the Conservatives4Palin website, and it was Palin who was among the first to denounce the "death panel" concept in the Democrats' government-run health care plan. That's the idea that appointed government officials who under the plan will have access to medical records will determine if a treatment will be provided to a needy patient. Theoretically, that could be a death sentence for a patient denied a treatment.

In the United Kingdom and other nations where such government procedures already are in place, the survival rates for such afflictions as breast cancer or prostate cancer are lower than in the U.S. Critics say it is partly because of denial or delay of treatment.

WND columnist Jane Chastain wrote about the issue shortly before the congressional vote.

"This bill sets up an Independent Medicare Advisory Board, which is to recommend cuts for the sole purpose of limiting the amount of resources going to Medicare patients. Some have called it a 'Death Panel,'" she wrote.

"You may think this is harsh, but if this bill passes, many seniors will die prematurely because the recommendations of these unelected bureaucrats will go into effect. Congress is not required to act on them!"

"Obama … wants Granny to believe that she will be able to receive that operation or treatment that could save or extend her life. Nothing could be further from the truth! There is a reverse incentive in this bill that actually penalizes Granny's primary-care physician if he or she is in the top 10 percent of doctors who refer patients to specialists. This puts a wedge between Granny and the doctor she trusts to act in her best interest."

Richard Poe, a New York Times best-selling author, documented in a previous report for WND how the government's plan to cut health-care costs will, in effect, cut health care itself for some.

"The only question is whose" health care will be cut, Poe wrote. "The numbers make clear that most of these cuts will have to come at the expense of those who need health care the most – the elderly, the disabled and the gravely ill."

He cited Obama's acknowledgement that "older, sicker societies pay more on health care than younger, healthier ones."

"He is right," Poe wrote. "According to a 2006 study by the Department of Health and Human Services, five percent of the U.S. population accounts for nearly 50 percent of health care spending in America. Who are those five percent? Most are people over 65 years of age with serious, chronic illnesses.

"By contrast, the study notes, half of the U.S. population 'spends little or nothing on health care… with annual medical spending below $664 per person.' These, of course, are mostly healthy young people – people without serious, chronic illnesses," Poe wrote.

"Obviously, Obama will not meet his cost-cutting targets by reducing care to healthy young people. They are already spending next to nothing. It is the old, the dying and the chronically ill whose health care he will cut. The numbers make this clear," Poe said.

Some of the "old, the dying and the chronically ill" appear to be catching on. According to a report from Fox News, an estimated 60,000 members of AARP, which endorsed "Obamacare," have turned in their cards and canceled their memberships in recent weeks.

Poe elaborated on his concerns about the president's plan.

"How will Obama cut costs? His June 13 radio speech gave some hints. Obama said his plan would provide 'incentives' to doctors to 'avoid unnecessary hospital stays, treatments and tests that drive up costs,'" Poe wrote.

"And what sort of treatment does Obama consider 'unnecessary?' In an ABC News special June 24, he implied medical treatment might be wasted on elderly people with grave illnesses, citing his own grandmother as an example," he said.

Obama concluded, "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Poe also documented how such health care limits already are being used overseas, including the U.K., where "British elders are routinely denied treatment for cancer, heart disease and other deadly illnesses."

Further, "death" boards already are operating in Oregon, where officials with the state Health Plan agreed to refuse a patient life-extending cancer drugs but volunteered to pay for her to commit suicide.

He reported Barbara Wagner of Springfield, Ore., was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2005. Chemotherapy and radiation put her cancer into remission. But the cancer returned in May 2008.

Wagner's doctor prescribed Tarceva, a pill which slows cancer growth. There was a good chance it might extend her life by a few weeks or even months.

At age 64, Wagner had two sons, three daughters, 15 grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren. Every moment she could spend with her loved ones was precious, he noted.

But Oregon's health officials nixed the plan. Her Tarceva treatment would cost $4,000 per month. Wagner was going to die anyway, so why waste the money?

Wagner received a letter stating that the Oregon Health Plan would not approve any treatment for her "that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of the disease. …" However, if Wagner opted for physician-assisted suicide, Oregon would be happy to pick up the tab, said the letter.

Physician-assisted suicide is legal in Oregon and costs only about $50.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=134401

So us pesky old people won't be a bother to you young, rich college educated elites with your PhD's, will we?
I'm sure you are relieved.

Sara.

-- March 31, 2010 8:59 PM


DinarAdmin wrote:

-- April 1, 2010 1:13 AM